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Single tired female tooI’ve been reading everyone’s feedback and I thank you for it.
This is going to be extremely difficult. There are so many moving parts. Absolutely my daughter will not be the one to saw anything to her stepmother. But I do understand that she could feel like an unwilling accomplice . She’s expressed having her and her dad know and having the 3 of them together would be uncomfortable .
I am afraid of how her dad is going to react. I really am. He’s going to deny it he’s going to freak out on me . I don’t know what to do if that happens
I’m emotionally exhausted. I didn’t sleep last night . My mind won’t stop . I can make a script of how I would like it to go, but I know it won’t go that way. This is a huge heavy weight in her. And a huge heavy weight on me. I’m really anxious . I just can’t see this going well at all.
I went through it for me and now I’m going through it for them. The universe is relentless. All I can hope for is my kid comes out of this as unscathed as possible. I’m going to do my best to make sure of that, even if it doesn’t work out that way
You could do it via FaceTime or Skype, with exH and his wife on one end and you on the other. That protects your from any immediate physical acting out. Just be sure you’re far away from your daughter if you do.
I’m an old poster who hasn’t been here in a long time, but I pop by occasionally to read. (Divorced, NC with anything bonkers and well now)
But I wanted to chip in on this issue, Ginger.
I am very sorry, first of all, that your xh has done this and for how distressing it is for you and little G. I am sorry that it is causing you even a moment of angst let alone sleepless nights. It’s amazing - and not in a good way - how some kinds of humans can create such chaos and disorder around them, isn’t it?
Seems to me that the No 1 priority is little G’s wellbeing and that this is the only thing you are responsible for. Wise of you to see that a third party IC might help her unpick what she wants to do and what is acceptable to her or not wrt to what she now knows about her father’s behaviour. And what a great job you have done with little G and the kind of relationship you have, Ginger, that she could tell you.
As I understood it, little G seems to have two main issues.....that she does not want to spend time with him/them carrying this important secret or feel responsible for what happens....and that she fears that her father will reject her when/if she tells him she knows. Is that right? Understandably, she may have some other feelings too about what kind of man her father is, about her stepmother’s feelings, about what he did all those years ago to you and her....those might take a bit of time to process ideally with support from a good IC and you....but the pressing big issue for her is carrying this secret bomb and how her father is going to react when/if she tells the truth?
This patch of my own life experience taught me, I think, two big lessons. The first is that being gaslit, by others or ourselves, is a terribly damaging insidious thing. The second is that agency matters and feeling that others support and validate our right to pin down what we need and act on it matters.
So it seems to me that the first step is to help little G put words to what is ok and not ok for her right now, to work out what her boundary is wrt to her father now she has facts that she did not have before. And you are the kind of parent who is well able to do that which is a blessing for little G.
Doing that though probably does mean being VERY clear in your own mind about what lives on your side of the street (and hers) and what does not. I know that over the years you have stepped up to have some kind of active extended family relationship with your xh and his wife believing this was best for your daughter. However, imho this leaves you more exposed to getting pulled into a bit of a dysfunctional triangle with put bluntly a couple of humans who harmed you and at best don’t share your values. Xh did what he did to you and very little G. And his wife, as an ow, was ok with having an affair with a man with a pregnant wife and/or small child. And those actions created a lot of tough practical consequences for you, Ginger, a harder life for you and little G than you might have wished. I’m not talking about any spirit of revenge, let me be clear, but I am saying that from the cheap seats the karmic mess of their relationship is absolutely not your job and it seems a bit skewed that you might even consider stepping into it even in a small way. Imho it’s not your responsibility, not your side of the street and not healthy for you or little G to even spend any mental headspace on it.
So again jmo but I think you should put aside any of those ‘owife has a right to know’ or ‘if I were her....’ thoughts. They may be true, but it’s not your job. Owife cheated with a man who cheats and betrays trust even with a small child in the mix; she got a husband who cheats. That is her life lesson to figure out and you owe her less than nothing.
So, lay down some of those moving parts, Ginger. They exist but they don’t belong to you.
Put simply, it seems likely that little G is going to want to say something to her father along the lines of I know x bc I saw why, i’m not comfortable with carrying this secret and spending time with you/owife and so, for the moment, I am not going to spend time with either of you. You can explain that to owife however you choose, the truth or not, but I am staying out of this mess. Full stop. Like you, I absolutely expect that your xh will react as cheaters do....that he will gaslight her, attack her, deny it or try to make her feel guilty or responsible.....which is why little G should not have that conversation face to face with him without support from you (if you feel able to be calm and objective) or an IC. Or why it might be better for her to communicate her boundary in writing.
And then both of you will need to stay out of the sandpit of the disordered when, entirely predictably, him or owife try to pull you into that particular triangle lol. So, you are probably going to need a new boundary with them too, Ginger.
It is horrible. But it isn’t as complicated as it feels, just deeply unpleasant. Little G knows a secret that has the potential to cause a lot of damage. But it isn’t her secret and she has good instincts that she doesn’t want to own it, that she wants to detach from it....ha ha, a DB child, great healthy survival instincts! Which means detaching from him and owife bc that is where the secret lives. At least for a while.
Your job is, as I see it, to help her figure out her boundary for herself and to find as straightforward and safe a way as possible to communicate it. Then to keep you and her, as far as you are able, away from any potential triangulation....let the cards fall where they may wrt to your xh and his wife and his wife’s best friend. (Good lord, it sounds like one of those Italian classic farces doesn’t it?) while you and little G focus on nice clean lovely things that are not mired in the BS of someone else’s farm. And that will also give little G a bit of time to process how she feels about the kind of man her father is in light of this new information.
Jmo, of course.
But I hope that I have made some small contribution from the cheap seats in helping your mind cut through the crappy wood to see the only really important tree which is in your sphere of influence.
Well said Treasur.
Ginger, I successfully traverse the similar minefield that was placed before me. My kids’ Mom was no where close to as involved in their lives as little’s G’s Dad is in her’s, however take what you will and discard the rest.
It was not, and is not, my kids’ job or responsibility to the relationship between Mom and OM, or Mom and me. What mattered is how she treats them. I always communicated openly and honestly about anything they brought up. I didn’t hide or shield the situation and I did not pour gas upon the already burning and volatile events of their lives.
That speaks to forgiveness. My kids leant and then had to accept and forgive the person their Mom became (or maybe was). And yes, being they are half her, does place pressure upon them. They are also half me, and are loved and supported. And things turned out it would seem.
You read and walked beside me (off and on) and are familiar with my journey. I’ve shared lessons learned and mistakes made. Utilize as you see fit.
You and little G will do fine.
D
Ginger1,
How are you and your daughter doing?
Treasur's post was fantastic. Count me in with the folks who think your #1 responsibility is to your daughter and not ExH's W/OW. The complicating factor is because your daughter knows what she knows she feels torn between betraying her own factor and the guilt of covering up for him. I've thought about your sitch a good bit and lean towards having her work with an IC and then pulling her dad into a session.
One possibility I haven't seen mentioned...do you think ExH's current W/OW might already know about the affair? The solo trip certainly raised your eyebrows and you've suspected his cheating on her before. Perhaps she's noticed as well and is doing her own spying. It will come out eventually. Not sure the timing works, but that would certainly get little G off the hook so to speak. But maybe it's good life lesson she learn to speak up in her voice anyway.
Anyway...lots of folks thinking of you and wishing you the best navigating through this. You're a great mother and will help her through it, of that everyone here is certain.
I’m an old poster who hasn’t been here in a long time, but I pop by occasionally to read.
Good to see you here Treasur
A great post as usual, of course I always know that you are full of wisdom and a great writer.
Ginger1,
One possibility I haven't seen mentioned...do you think ExH's current W/OW might already know about the affair? The solo trip certainly raised your eyebrows and you've suspected his cheating on her before. Perhaps she's noticed as well and is doing her own spying. It will come out eventually.
or perhaps they even have an open marriage ... no one ever really knows what goes on between a husband and wife.
Treasur,
First I want to thank you so much for that post. You absolutely understand where my mind is at right now . What my concerns are and how to approach them. I read it yesterday morning and me and my kid spent the day together and I couldn’t reply the way I wanted to. Better than any therapist I could run anything by, actually.
Sunday night when her dad texted her asking her to make Wednesday her night this week. She did start crying and having an anxiety attack again. She told him yes though .
Then yesterday we spent time together at the mall and such . She told me over lunch she has decided she doesn’t want to tell him she knows. She said she realized last night her fear comes from what would happen to their relationship if he knew she saw that. So she says she prefers not to say anything right now. She will go there with her grandma. She want things to just be “normal”
I told her I support this as long as she is comfortable and isn’t filled with anxiety when she goes there. I also told her honestly that this will likely come out on its own at some point and that might lead to some changes. She said she understood. She just doesn’t want to be that catalyst
I, of course want her to be just be comfortable . I also want him to suffer some consequences. But he never does
As far as his wife knowing ? I wouldn’t doubt she knows something is going on. However, I am almost positive she doesn’t know it’s her best friend I imagine that is not “allowed” in an open marriage agreement if there was even one.
As for me, I can’t even face talking to him right now. He wants to discuss schedules and I don’t even want to engage .
I’m just going to have to suck this all up
Well, i’m glad it helped you to tidy your own mind up, Ginger. We all need that sometimes, don’t we? Often, of course, we do know what we think.....it just gets a bit cluttered by emotion and other people’s BS.....but we get a kind of mirror when we can use a spare brain I find. And I think it must be quite hard sometimes being the only adult trying to think it through on your own.
Darn, that rule of 3 thing that I think I learned here works, doesn’t it lol? I am very touched by the respect you have for your daughter and the way you are supporting her so authentically. She has, with your help, caught a breath and had time to think about her preferred choice, her Plan A. It may be that events will demand a Plan B at some point, that’s true, but how cool is it that she got to decide it for herself.
And you? Well, yup, he’s a bit icky, isn’t he? And your daughter was distressed bc of his actions. But I would gently suggest that you keep reminding yourself of three things.....
1. Nothing has changed, he has been icky for a long time, you just chose to look past it bc it was no longer on your side of the street. It’s ok if, for a little while, you need to ease back and do a ‘gosh, bit too busy’ white lie while you let your amygdala settle down! And tbh it’s ok too if you decide that less contact/different contact works for you as your daughter is older now than when you first took the high road....really it’s ok, Ginger. Boundaries can be for you too and you don’t have to put words to them or justify them to anyone but yourself. And that’s just fine.
2. What matters to you most is your daughter’s wellbeing....that may or may not mean comfort exactly, depending on her choices....but the tremendous parental gift of respecting her right to choose for herself and learn to kick other people’s monkeys into the long grass. I know you love little G but tbh it sounds as if you like and respect her as a young human too....and that’s a lifelong gift, Ginger. I was very lucky with my parents....I always knew they had my back and liked me, even if they didn’t agree with my choices or when I was a teenage a$$hat. And I still carry that with me even now they are both gone.
3. Please don’t spend even a micro moment musing on their marital s$itshow. Whether she knows, he knows she knows, best friend knows she knows. These are messy self-centred people making a mud pie of their own lives either bc they like it or bc it’s easier than the alternative. And just bc they metaphorically invite you and little G to the mud pie fest does not mean you are obliged to show up lol. Leave them to it.....perhaps from a goodly distance while you and little G and grandma continue to live on the lovely mud-free side of the street.
Signing off now..
PS part of the reason I come back and read some threads is simply bc I really like the individual folks. So I care what happens to them. You are just delightful, Ginger, and little G is obviously a chip off the maternal block. I admire both of you very much and am happy if I got to make a small helpful contribution to more lovely Gingerness in the world. X
She said she realized last night her fear comes from what would happen to their relationship if he knew she saw that. So she says she prefers not to say anything right now. She will go there with her grandma. She want things to just be “normal”
Uggggg I wish she was an adult as that would make my comments she much easier. But being 13 or 14 it’s harder. In general terms however - NO NO NO - just wrong. This is how far too many adults get to be the way they are. “Just want things to be normal”. Many just want to go along to get along. That’s simply not life and it turns people into pleasers. You say your ex has always gotten away with crap. That’s only because those in his life have allowed it. Now little G wants to allow it just to hold on and pretend things will gloss over and return to normal. No wonder he gets away with it.
This can be a huge learning experience. This is real life. Will she be taught to stand up for what is right and for what she believes or to just shut up to not rock the boat. Again if she was 18 I’d totally advocate for her standing up. As an early teen I’m less sure. Sadly though she is learning potentially how NOT to handle life experiences like this but how to avoid them and smooth them over. Is that what you want to teach her?
This is so sad on so many levels but is not the first disappointment she will have in her life including with her dad. I think I’d encourage her to stage up for what is right. Piece at any cost is never worth it. It’s best she learns this now as hard as it is. Be there to do it with her. Support her through it. You seem afraid to upset him as well. She sees that. A strong mom that takes her by the hand and says nope this stops today may be the best thing she can experience. Doing the right thing us often not easy. It’s often hard but it’s still the right thing. Encourage her to do the right thing. Teach her to be a strong adult that does what’s right rather than avoid to hope to all just goes away. It never does. If she lets dad get away with this what will she do when it’s her BFor husband doing the exact same thing.
Don’t have much time right now, but I disagree heavily Don. She’s a kid, not an adult and she doesn’t need to be the one to expose her fathers affair. I support her in her decision fully right now. And if she wanted to tell him, I would support her in that too. I am absolutely not teaching her how to do the wrong thing . Her father is doing that. I am here to show her how her father is doing is the wrong thing, but as a CHILD it is not her burden to expose it. Adult stuff should not be on her shoulders. Because she isn’t an adult. I fully trust she is making the decision she needs to for herself right now. And it has nothing to do with me or how I feel about it
I don’t always make the wisest decisions in the dating world, but when it comes to parenting I absolutely make sure I am doing what I truly is in the best interest of my child and I trust myself in that area. I care about this with my whole heart, unlike dating .
This is an awful spot for all of us really. But In the end, it’s about my daughter. And I hate like anything that she has to be the one to find out about it.
I agree with you G.
She is young still even if as mature as she is. If she cannot be comfortable around them, she can set that boundary with her dad directly. But if she can manage to be okay for the time being around them knowing what she knows, then for now that is the best way for her. You have provided her with a lot of support and guidance. So she feels heard and supported.
Don, I disagree with you about calling people out on their bad behavior. Many times it looks like they are getting away with stuff when in reality, they are paying in other ways you can't always see. Sometimes, if people feel resistance or pressure in one place, they will just seek out support in other places...so calling them out really doesn't change their behaviors. It many times just displaces it. Boundaries work better because they are focused on protecting ourselves. You can't control what others will do...calling them out or not.
El
Hi Ginger
I used to have this revenge fantasy that my ex would get called out publicly for everything he did. I wanted that validation. I wanted him to be publicly shamed and humiliated. I wanted justice and karma.
It took me a few years of healing to realize that the person most hurt by that would be my son.
I’m sorry your daughter has to go through this at such a young age. And I would do the same as you. Counseling and trying to keep her out of adult matters.
I don’t think anyone owes his wife anything as she went into this relationship with your ex knowing he was a cheater. If your cheating with someone - obviously eventually that person will cheat on you. If she was an innocent in all this and was at risk for stds/financial loss then maybe adult involvement would be the right thing. But definitely should not be left on the shoulders of a minor to do so.
The fact that your daughter confided in you is a testament to the safe and secure relationship you have provided with your daughter.
Would something like “I am proud of you for confiding in me. This an adult matter and I will handle it for you. You did nothing wrong and let’s make this my issue now. It yours. I will not tell anyone you confided in me unless you want me to do so” be appropriate?
This way, she knows she did stand up for something not right by confiding in the safe parent or authority figure (something she should do if she witnessed abuse or danger) but not be burdened with having to confront.
D is over there tonight and her grandmother couldn’t go. She was pissed at first. Actually, her dad had off today and picked her up around 1. She’s texted me a bunch of times about random stuff , which usually includes asking me to get her this or take her there or what are we going to do about this or that. But she’s fine. And I know she just wants everything to be normal. And she wants me to be normal.
And the truth is I am FULL of rage. And I have no outlet for it. I can’t be upset around her. I can’t let him know why I am upset or barely have the capacity to send him a text. I can’t tell my dad or stepmom. I am just so angry at him for putting his daughter is in this position twice. She is acting so totally normal right now, like it never happened. I know it’s atill going to blow up at Some point. And I did tell her eventually the truth will come out and the truth always does and she needs to be prepared and she says she understands . I know I will be picking up the pieces when it does.
I’m on the verge of screaming or crying every minute and I can’t really do either. Well, I can cry tonight because she isn’t here. I have no one to lean on, although I am having one of those moments where I want to do anything that will make feel good. But I don’t know what that is . I seriously think I am going to need the IC more than her, but truth is I can’t afford both of is. Unless I give up my gym, which I refuse. It’s the only place I feel calm and like me lately. I am getting super strong and it feels good.
Oh, and me and D are going to my dad and stepmoms sun-Tuesday and her grandma was going to watch the dog, but my ex and his wife offered to keep him. And D said yes. She doesn’t really get it. But I don’t even want my dog near them and I don’t want to have to interact with him .
I worked so hard all these years to keep a decent relationship with these 2 for her sake, but now it just became much much harder.
I’m just so angry. I’m a human pressure cooker. I don’t even know what to do with it
I’m just so angry. I’m a human pressure cooker. I don’t even know what to do with it
After acknowledging your anger--which you've done here--I would workout. Vent that anger into a brisk walk, jog, or run. Try a meditation app like Headpace. Call a friend. If it's late, try a sleep stories app. Anything but the dark side--the bottle, the fridge, the kissy "friend" guy. Figure out of next actions when you're rested and your emotions have run their course.
Might I suggest the BetterHelp app as a in interim IC solution? I turned to it myself. However, the match they gave me wasn’t a good one (at least on paper…not the right background, experience, etc) so I did the auto request to change it. They gave me six to select from and I selected someone better and I’ve been seeing her ever since. I found that the cost was less than many of the counselors I had researched. And maybe your medical coverage might cover a few appointments? It might do you good to talk to someone even if just to vent and get some short term support. Plus, they charge weekly, so you can actually get more than just one session a week (if you count texting and other means on the app). Another idea is to reach out to universities or other places where they train counselors as you might be able to receive counseling for free or low cost while they are doing training…these are managed by higher level professionals so you will still get good counseling.
I agree with Traveler…the gym is very important and you should not give that up if you can manage it. You must take care of you. I know you are also considering obtaining more child support as well, so maybe BH as a short solution might hold you over until you can get more financial support. If you can manage it, I’d still move forward with that process as you really need the financial help even more…especially if things continue to get more complicated. But I also understand how hard this can all be when you are already so stressed and full of anger. First and foremost, take care of you. Hang in there. Hugs to you…and little G.
Thank you. What ended up making me feel better last night was eating f some ice cream and watching love on the spectrum . I did take the 5:30-6:30 class night and it felt great. Too bad I blew it with ice cream. Oh well!
I think her night went well over there. I’ll just keep an eye on her and make sure she’s ok. And I’ll figure out how to compartmentalize my feelings towards him. I’ve been doing it for so many years I’ve just hit a bump.
Going out after work for another work event . Free! Yay! I signed D and I up for a paint and trivia at a paint and sip place for the gilmour girls. It’s her comfort show. She will win the trivia portion for sure. Sun-Tuesday we are going to my dads and she is taking a friend.
We will both make it through .
Girl, give yourself some grace! You did NOT “blow it” with the ice cream. I know your fitness is important to you but, girl, you have so much going on that I don’t think one little ice cream is going to be your downfall. Please, please, please offer yourself some grace because you have SO much going on right now.
Continuing to hold you and little G in my positive thoughts and prayers. (((G and Little G)))
I don’t think one little ice cream is going to be your downfall.
You know in weight watchers you can eat anything you want as long as you count the points.
I agree with Dawn
Ugh - G, I'm so sorry you and little G are stuck in this place of keeping his secrets again. I understand your reasons, but still have my doubts as to whether this is the right thing to do.
If G thinks it is right for her, and more importantly Little G, then it IS right for them. It doesn’t really matter whether the rest of us think it is right or not because we aren’t the ones living it. This is the point I have tried to make to others which has been rather rudely shot down but none of us live in anyone else’s shoes so we can’t decide what is right or wrong for someone else.
I’m just so angry. I’m a human pressure cooker. I don’t even know what to do with it
kick boxing.
Get that $h!t OUT !
Ginger1,
And the truth is I am FULL of rage. And I have no outlet for it.
I’m just so angry. I’m a human pressure cooker. I don’t even know what to do with it
I imagine little G's discovery of ExH's affair and helping her handle it is dredging up a lot of thoughts/feelings/memories what you went through 14 years ago. Perhaps it's ripping off the proverbial band-aid. Make sure to be there for your daughter as a good parent would, but don't forget to put on your own oxygen mask and take care of yourself as well.
If G thinks it is right for her, and more importantly Little G, then it IS right for them. It doesn’t really matter whether the rest of us think it is right or not because we aren’t the ones living it.
Dawn I very often agree with your thoughts but on this I can’t understand your thinking. Let’s separate the specific item currently at play. Are you saying that whatever someone thinks is the correct thing to do or not do, is always correct? So if her father was kicking the dog, if she thinks it might strain their R she should not say anything or intervene? As long as they think it’s the correct thing then that’s the final word? What about if he was shoplifting while he and Little G went shopping? It’s yet another uncomfortable sitch. Sure little G is not participating but she’s aware of it and he’s doing it right in front of her. What if he used the N word all the time and it made little G very uncomfortable? I could list all sorts of examples. Yes it very does much does matter what others think. Just because she’d rather not rock the boat does not mean we can’t say THAT IS WRONG!!! Little G thinks it’s wrong, it totally bothers her - but don’t confront her dad for fear of his reaction? It’s okay for her to be scared. It’s okay to be difficult. But if we don’t do things we are afraid of or that are difficult where will that end? She needs support in doing what’s right.
I understand your reasons, but still have my doubts as to whether this is the right thing to do.
And as critical as I’ve been of some of KMLs points of view, I have to totally agree with her here. While I do not at all think it should be up to G or her D to talk to her step mom or really anyone else, we all should very much stand up for what we believe in and for absolutely certain stand up for ourselves. If something makes us upset, uncomfortable or whatever else, we should discuss it with the people in our lives - especially close family - doing it. When the majority reason for not doing so is not wanting to rock the boat or worse yet just ignoring reality in favor of wanting or pretending for everything to just be okay or be normal. That’s not life. We don’t get to choose our parents. Some of us have great parents while others have really crappy ones. Being a sperm donor does not a father make. Just as in my examples above, if Gs dad was abusing the dog or disparaging other races or whatever else, it’s akin to the bad behavior he’s displaying to his daughter with his affair. Yes it totally stinks the kind of person he is but this is a HUGE LEARNING AND TEACHING MOMENT that can shape who she grows up to be. She needs help and guidance and a strong person to lean on to help guide her. If 13 year olds had the ability to make these decisions by themselves they would not be children. Just as we should not involve children in adult situations we should not expect children to make adult decisions on their own and allow whatever they decide to be just fine. That’s what they have parents for - to help them through making these very difficult decisions.
So I’m crystal clear here, I don’t believe it’s up to her to confront or tell her stepmom. I don’t think it’s up to her to do anything other than have a Frank honest discussion with her father about anything he’s doing that she believes to be wrong or immoral and that bothers her - whether that be kicking the dog, shoplifting, using the N word - or carrying on an extramarital affair right in front if her. Every child should be encouraged to come to their parent and say “something you are doing is making me very upset and very sad.” Doing this should not change based on the feared response or reaction. This could be a huge character building experience for her - and maybe even for him.
I will continue to disagree wholly. This isn’t like he used the N word and that was wrong so she said something . He will know that she is holding on to information that could cause some serious destruction to the family. D knows the consequences of that and what could happen. Her life blows up and her father resents her. It’s not a “character building “ experience. It’s a horrifying experience to have that power.
I’d and when she decides to do it, it has to come be because she chose it . Not because I told her to . And I told heroes always reveal themselves and she does need to be prepared for this to come out even if it isn’t by her. And she gets that. She just doesn’t want it to be here because she doesn’t want to risk losing her father.
I guess you have your opinion and I have mine. Be thankful you never actually have to experience this yourself . Because it’s awful.
She knows I’m angry with her dad. She said their house was fine last night and she is fine right now and that’s what matters. But me, she knows I am very not happy with him. But I’m supporting her .
This is very very very difficult in so many ways. I can’t even begin to explain
I will continue to disagree wholly. This isn’t like he used the N word and that was wrong so she said something . He will know that she is holding on to information that could cause some serious destruction to the family. D knows the consequences of that and what could happen. Her life blows up and her father resents her. It’s not a “character building “ experience. It’s a horrifying experience to have that power.
IMHO you are giving her too much power here. These are her dad's choices. She does not hold the power to blow up his life/her life... or for him to resent her. That rest solely on the shoulders on her dad.
It is not the information she holds that will cause the destruction of the family... it was the choices HE made. HE is to blame here.
It is unwise for Little G to live a life where she fears the response of her parent. You know how damaging that is in the long run. Help her see the lies in the fear. Help her to see her needs above her dads.
If G thinks it is right for her, and more importantly Little G, then it IS right for them. It doesn’t really matter whether the rest of us think it is right or not because we aren’t the ones living it.
Dawn I very often agree with your thoughts but on this I can’t understand your thinking. Let’s separate the specific item currently at play. Are you saying that whatever someone thinks is the correct thing to do or not do, is always correct? So if her father was kicking the dog, if she thinks it might strain their R she should not say anything or intervene? As long as they think it’s the correct thing then that’s the final word? What about if he was shoplifting while he and Little G went shopping? It’s yet another uncomfortable sitch. Sure little G is not participating but she’s aware of it and he’s doing it right in front of her. What if he used the N word all the time and it made little G very uncomfortable? I could list all sorts of examples. Yes it very does much does matter what others think. Just because she’d rather not rock the boat does not mean we can’t say THAT IS WRONG!!! Little G thinks it’s wrong, it totally bothers her - but don’t confront her dad for fear of his reaction? It’s okay for her to be scared. It’s okay to be difficult. But if we don’t do things we are afraid of or that are difficult where will that end? She needs support in doing what’s right.
Of course I would not advocate someone sitting by and saying nothing while a dog was being kicked or the N word was being used or any of those things, but you know as well as I do, Don, that this is NOT the same thing. Everyone keeps talking about this being a teaching moment and how w2 has a right to know so someone should tell her because they’d want to know. While I understand those points, I just don’t happen to agree in this particular case that it is up to G or little G to be the one to put it out there. Little G went to her mother about it, the parent she trusts. Little G has made it clear, for her own reasons, that she doesn’t want to say anything right now, so why is it so bad that G wants to step back with little G and get her in counseling. Just because little G doesn’t want to talk to her father right now when she JUST learned this info, doesn’t mean she is never going to. She needs some time to process and G is giving her that and trying to protect her in the process so just because some of you would jump in and make your kid talk to their parent right now if you were in this situation doesn’t mean that is the right choice for G and little G. Little G is a kid and therefore shouldn’t be in the middle of adult matters. She IS old enough to make her own choices in regards to her communication with her dad. That’s what I meant about it isn’t on anyone but G and little G to decide what is right for them in this scenario. We are probably just not going to see eye to eye on this one.
I will continue to disagree wholly. This isn’t like he used the N word and that was wrong so she said something . He will know that she is holding on to information that could cause some serious destruction to the family. D knows the consequences of that and what could happen. Her life blows up and her father resents her. It’s not a “character building “ experience. It’s a horrifying experience to have that power.
IMHO you are giving her too much power here. These are her dad's choices. She does not hold the power to blow up his life/her life... or for him to resent her. That rest solely on the shoulders on her dad.
It is not the information she holds that will cause the destruction of the family... it was the choices HE made. HE is to blame here.
It is unwise for Little G to live a life where she fears the response of her parent. You know how damaging that is in the long run. Help her see the lies in the fear. Help her to see her needs above her dads.
This is how she feels. This is the way she believe her dad will react. I keep reiterating that anything that becomes of this is because of her fathers poor choices and not anyone else. Even if she told him she knows, and anyone else did the matter , whatever happens is because of him, and absolutely no one else.
The truth is, I think she is going to want to say something eventually. But I’m letting her do it on her timeline . I’m going to get her the IC so she can work through this and maybe feel comfortable telling him. And not so scared. It’s been barely a week. And she is I the stage of wanting everything to be “normal”
I am not going to tell her if she should tell him or not. I’m going to let her come to the choice on her own. She needs time. I’m going to give it to her.
Trust me. I hate him right now. No one is more upset about him not having consequences. No one is more upset than me watching him get the unconditional love of his daughter , having his wife. His umpteen family vacations, and his mistress. I don’t want him to get away anything . But it’s not for me or her to give him the consequences. When she tells him, I want it to be because it’s what she needs to do
Dear Ginger,
I just read your thread and I’m very sorry you and your daughter have to go through this.
As far as for my opinion concerned, I can only state that you are handling it in the best way you can, and that is putting your D’s feelings first.
You are doing just perfect.
She is lucky to have such a great Mum like you.
Good luck and a lot of strength to the both of you.
I will continue to disagree wholly.
I just don't see how we are completely or wholly disagreeing here. Either you're not taking the time to read and fully comprehend what I'm saying or I'm doing a really terrible job of trying to make my point. Perhaps it's some of both. You seem like if your D would want to do what I'm suggesting, you'd fully support her in that. Well how then is that disagreeing? I'm not at all saying you should force her to confront her dad - I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is if you went to her and said something like "it's really not healthy for you or me or anyone to keep things in or not have an honest conversation with a close loved one because we are afraid of how they might react. That's not healthy and I'm sorry you are feeling this way. I think you should really consider talking with your dad and telling him how you feel and I will be right there right along side you helping you to do that when you are ready." I think that is a much healthier option than allowing a child to make a decision like this on their own. That in itself is pressure. She totally trusts you and looks up to you. She will follow your lead. If you lead her to an honest conversation she will follow you. That's what I'm trying to say - you should lead her to healthy communication. She needs guidance and direction from her parent - not to have to figure it out on her own.
I've also said I don't think she needs to at all consider her step mom in this or consider telling her. That's not her place. First and foremost, right from the start, I've said this is a much harder decision because it is a child and therefore getting professional guidance and counseling is needed - which is again something you seem to very much agree with and are doing. So again we agree. I also have never said this needs to happen immediately. It's a process but she needs to be lead in the healthy direction - if not by you then by a councilor well experienced in things like this.
So it appears we agree on more than we disagree. You just are allowing or wanting her to decide how to handle this on her own and I think that's too much for any child to do. That's where we disagree. She may be wide beyond her years but she is still very much a child. Don't force her either but gently guide and mentor her. This could become a very healthy path through the future where she communicates and talks with loved ones about things that are bothering her. That's how healthy relationships are created and maintained - not by keeping quiet, not by keeping it bottled up and just hoping things will get fixed on their own. Her largest fear is her dad's reaction. Well peace and an R at any cost is often not worth that cost. It also enables the bad behavior that your ex seems to have made a lifestyle for himself. At some point someone needs to stand up to him. If he is going to disown his own daughter because she called him on his extramarital affair - is that really a healthy relationship to have in the first place? Again, keeping her dad no matter the cost is very hard but never healthy. If he chooses yet more bad behavior and retaliates on her, that's totally on him.
It sounds like you may end up exactly where I'm suggesting after she meets with the councilor. Time will tell. I can't imagine any councilor worth his or her salt would advocate not talking to their parent about their feelings and concerns through honest communication. What C would do that? Hopefully that clarifies where I'm coming from.
G-
Not sure I could handle things better than you are right now.
You rock girl!!
Thanks drew. Am I doing everything right ? Probably not . I have had to make some hard decisions as a parent and right now I feel they are the right ones.
I wanted to carry over from E’s thread. I didn’t want to hijack at all.
I’m my many many many years here and going through what I have. Believe it or not, this board has messed with my dating life. Good intentions by most people . I’ll never regret that. But I sometimes I feel like I have to be the most perfect, healed, and studied human being to be successful or worthy of dating . Doing all the research, reading the books, listening to the podcasts, doing the IC…….
I’ve done a lot. I don’t have it all figured out . But honestly, it doesn’t make me any less worthy of dating or a relationship. I always come from a good place in my heart. Even if I don’t do it right all the time . I’ll never be perfect or have it all figured out. But what I need is to have trust in myself .
Am I still seeing this not quite divorced guy? Yes. We have a date on Thursday. He’s been away in FL and has been in touch quite regularly. Has he thrown up any red flags aside from not being legally divorced ? Nope. He’s sweet. He’s thoughtful. Communicative. He has a great strong relationship with his family. We enjoy a lot of the same . Is the timing bad? Maybe. If we met at the ideal time, both divorced for a while, etc. would this be the ideal situation ? Absolutely.
I don’t know what’s going to happen. Certain moments I say it ties because there is not possible way it could work out because he hasn’t been alone long enough. Other times, I say we are just totally on the same page about everything and he is not the kind of guy who is all about being alone and playing the field and appreciates something great when he finds it.
Rules, rule, rules. Some days I don’t know which way to go. For now, I enjoy his company. I laugh and smile when we talk. We have depth to our connection and conversation and it feels good. And I might lose it in a heart beat.
Oh, I have been divorced for 13 year as of the 23rd. As of tomorrow my mom will have been dead for 21 years. And I handle it all well .we are at my dads with my D’s friend. Having a great time . She’s being a kid her age not worrying about her dad and what he is doing . And that is fine for now . I’m simply not at work until Wednesday and enjoying that.
Just trying to stay in the moment more
I’m my many many many years here and going through what I have. Believe it or not, this board has messed with my dating life. Good intentions by most people . I’ll never regret that. But I sometimes I feel like I have to be the most perfect, healed, and studied human being to be successful or worthy of dating . Doing all the research, reading the books, listening to the podcasts, doing the IC…….
Shhhhhhh !!!
I agree with you...
And I keep saying over and over again....
Just be you...
Cause I think you have paralysis by analysis in most of your dating endeavors....
Don't try and define anything....just let it breathe and enjoy it....
F everyone else....
G you are not doing anything wrong. I just said you know what you are getting into and he probably isn't ready for a long term relationship. It's ok to find out. There are no absolutes.
The other thing is you have no idea what type of guy he is and if he wants to play the field.
Stay in the moment and enjoy the ride.
i'm going to speak for myself and to my own experience: there was a time in my life when i made decisions by general consensus of select trusted people. eventually making decisions that way became a habit. the results were often not what I wanted, but at the time I didn't realize why that was. It was only until I stopped making decisions that way and started relying on my own inner guidance that the results were different.
When something overwhelming happens, like the last 2 years with my son, I still seek as much information as possible, whether it's research or conversations with a few trusted souls. Whether I wanted it or not, believe me those close to me who were in the know offered some pretty stringent and strong suggestions. And suggestions would be a mild word. Statements like, "If you do this he's going to die" or "You're helping him to die, not live" were said to me often by people who'd lived through similar things with their own kids and chose a different path than the one I chose.
I have no idea to this day if the choices I've made were the right ones for my son's long term well being, but I do know that at some point I stopped listening to advice from others. I started praying, meditating and asking for Divine guidance. I asked for signs that I was making the right choices, and I believe those signs were provided to me.
So here we are today. He's alive. He's happier than he's been in a decade. He's figuring out a career for himself. He's in love. He's taking steps towards independence (and I'm dealing with letting go and trusting) ... so I dunno. In my case, in this specific example, I feel like as much as my friends love me and my son, the best thing I did for myself and for my son was to say to these well meaning people, "Thank you. I appreciate your input. Right now I need to go inward, pray and listen for a Divine answer." To a person, they respected that decision. I know they prayed that I wasn't wrong and they continue to pray for both me and my son. And I know they were terrified he would die and I would have to deal with the unfathomable. They're still worried, and I get it, but it's got to be his way because it's his life, and so far it seems to be working out for him.
So all that is a very long way around to saying that my life got better only after I made my inner journey. Once I did that, my decisions became more in line with my inner self, so the results fit because everything was in alignment. It doesn't mean I always get the results I want. I does mean that even when I don't get the results I want, it's easier to accept because I'm operating from a place of alignment with myself, not others'. Make sense?
But just listen to Mach because he's far less wordy than I am and basically he said the same thing.
For now, I enjoy his company. I laugh and smile when we talk. We have depth to our connection and conversation and it feels good.
Then just enjoy that for what it is.
But just listen to Mach because he's far less wordy than I am and basically he said the same thing.
Well I'd hate to think what that would make me!!!
But just listen to Mach because he's far less wordy than I am and basically he said the same thing.
Well I'd hate to think what that would make me!!!
That's like 6 posts for you...^^^
: )
G - I’m glad you’re enjoying him. Dating shouldn’t be so serious!
I’m still wondering about the answer to my question, though - was it his idea to draw the line at “friends who kiss”, or was that you pre-emptively trying to be the “low maintenance girl”? I just don’t want it to be the second because you deserve more.
If it helps
I followed all the rules with my first husband and was miserable and he left me and financially screwed me over.
I took pretty big risks and made moves that would never have been advised and I’m currently married to someone I’m very happy and stilll excited to be with.
I think there’s the risk of hurt with anyone and in any situation. Base it on how you are
Being treated and how he makes you feel and don’t worry about rules and time lines.
I am really just trying to enjoy it for what it is in the moment . I keep hearing in the back of head though “this can only end one way”
But maybe I don’t think about the middle or the end. Just the now.
Years of interference putting my dating life out there setting myself up for failure. This can’t work because of this or that , red flag green flag, yellow flag, whatever. It swims in my head and I have lost trust in myself . If I want a long term R don’t do this or that. Not the right guy. You know how this is going to end and blah blah blah.
It’s killed the joy for me I guess. Killed the fun and now I’m just as clueless as when I started.
So for now. Have a good time and don’t sign an ending to the story.
And KML, yea, I said that. I preemptively tried to make sure it stays where it needs to stay for him, because the “stats” say he needs that and it couldn’t work otherwise. A means of protecting myself I guess. A way of not even thinking of me.
I have decided I’m just going to live in the moment . He can figure his size out and I can figure mine out . For now, just one more date Thursday and he’s gone for 2 weeks.
And as for me? I’m just going to keep on going about my days
And KML, yea, I said that. I preemptively tried to make sure it stays where it needs to stay for him, because the “stats” say he needs that and it couldn’t work otherwise.
I don't think its a "stats" thing at all.
You had your rules because you are very wise. Like a one eyed owl in a tree.
You have broken them and now have to justify it.
We have seen this a million times on the board.
I am sure your EXH's current W tried to justify how she would be different. She was wrong....
Only time will tell....if you will meet a similar fate
Date got cancelled for tomorrow night 😢 . I won’t see him for another 2 weeks because he leaves for vacation ( in the state, DTS as us Jerseyans like to say).
He continues to be communicative. Called me to apologize he couldn’t make it. Stays in touch and is very sweet.
It’s a tough one . As a person. No red flags so far. Completely green. And I’m of overlooking anything in that area. The biggest barrier is getting out of a marriage. If you took that away, he’s seriously great. My biggest problem is trying to tell myself to stop telling myself this is going to fail eventually. I keep writing off my fate. I find myself going to sabotage it before I go get hurt. I stop myself though. I’d be full of regret if I tried to ruin it before I get hurt.
We had a nice weekend at my dad and his wife’s. She had fun with her friend and I got more sun than I have in years. I’m super freakin tan. I got an extra day off today because I agreed to work Sunday . I spent 3 hours on my yard. Grocery shopped, meal prepped, cleaned, and for my birthday kicked At the gym. All in all a solid day.
d has been acting completely normal. She’s enjoying her time At her dads. She’s fine being there. All I can do is stay hyper alert and keep communication open. She’s being a teen cheer coach for the town this year. She starts next Monday. I remember when she was was so little started here and is she’s teaching those kids. It’s crazy. I’m happy she will be busy in subway 2-3 nights a week and then back to games during football season. It goes towards her required volunteer hours.
Recently, the boys and girls club she pretty much grew up at was in the news. Like the The big news stations. 100 kids got dropped off there at night. Had an illegal party and destroyed everything . She says to me “ what kind of parents do theS kids have that they would be raised to think this OK?!?” I mean, we must be doing something right .mostly me. Hahahaha!
What was the reason he gave to cancel the date?
What was the reason he gave to cancel the date?
He is getting new flooring in his new place for his bedroom. Was supposed to get it Tuesday, but it wasn’t in stock until today. His brother Is free to help him tonight after they both work. The installers are coming tomorrow .
I believe him. He’s been sending me progress pics of everything.
Hey my friend. Sorry little G (who isnt so little anymore) is having to deal with this with her father. Not surprised at him at all, sadly. Follow her lead. Take it slow. Have her talk to someone neutral.
As far as you are concerned. GET OUTTA YOUR HEAD!
He could have issues or not. I know people years out of a marriage that still have them.
You have been at this long enough to know deal. You are going in with your eyes wide open.
Just enjoy it. Could you get hurt? Maybe. Could he possibly be a great match? Also, maybe. Time will tell.
Life is short. Just enjoy. Watch your heart some..not too much that you dont let him in. Just be you. Dont get hung up on him too early. Take it slow...but have some fun!!!
I am trying out some new thoughts in trying to get unstuck...yet again. I am telling myself..what's the worse that could happen? I get hurt. I fail. I lost out. None of which is life threatening.
Give little G a hug for me. Love you.
Just enjoy it. Could you get hurt? Maybe. Could he possibly be a great match? Also, maybe. Time will tell.
Life is short. Just enjoy. Watch your heart some..not too much that you dont let him in. Just be you. Dont get hung up on him too early. Take it slow...but have some fun!!!
Watch The Book Club. Wait for the scene at the end where Diane is talking to her daughters about her new beau. Listen to what she says. It's the coolest attitude towards dating one can have, imho.
(it's on amazon prime)
HIIII UR!
I need to get out of my head. It’s really really hard not to. I think about every text I send, what I say, am I doing it right, am I doing it wrong ? Too little too much?
And I just want to be me. I want to do what feels right and feels good. But in the back of my head it’s always “am I messing this up?”
The weird thing is he doesn’t seem so far to have issues. He seems like a solid family guy. His only issue is maybe he wants “that someone “ because he’s seen solid marriages most of his life. His brother, sister, his parents. I think he really wants that too. And who knows, maybe that’s my issue too! He’s pretty grounded and stable . I do think there are some people out there who don’t need this whole “freedom” thing and if something good came along, they would recognize it and go for it.
He is on vacay. Day 1 of 2 weeks. He sent me some videos and texts. He seems to reach out on his own will. I think he kind of likes me. I know I like him too. Did I mention he plays hockey?! Lol. I feel like he does it because he totally wants too. Not because he is obligated. And that feels kind of good
I’m definitely kind of stuck right now too and I need to try something new. Old me in this situation would think of every reasons why it couldn’t possibly work and self sabotage. Old me would also try to control the situation, trying to find a way to make sure he does what he needs to do at this point in his life.
But that’s on him. He is a big boy and can decide what’s right for him. I’m not going to try to guide him into the stages “i” think he needs to go through post divorce. It’s different for everyone. That other guy….. I got rid of him again. He is deep in his stage of selfishness and not wanting to deal with anyone and having his cake and eating it too….: but he wants to still remain the super nice guy. Nah. Doesn’t work for me. That is his post divorce path. My hockey player ? That doesn’t have to be his too. He can choose to want to date me because he likes me.
As far as D. She is continuing in her path of normality. She wants to spend time with her dad and family. They are all going To the shore tomorrow for her cousins b day. In 2 weeks she leaves on vacation.
How do I feel about it all? My anger is softening but it’s still there. Honestly, I do want him to suffer in some way. Not in a way that makes my daughter suffer though. And I want to see him hurt more than his wife. I am legit frustrated he goes on living this life while doing whatever he wants while I sit here and work like a million jobs, take care of everything and pretty much go unseen. The one place I might actually be appreciated in this world is work, even though I didn’t even get that position. One part of me wants to stay right where I am. The other part wants to venture out a little and use my skills in a more advanced position. And pretty much? I desire to work just a regular workweek and stay afloat .
For now, I just keep putting one foot in front of another. It’s all I can do.
BTW, B- I totally saw that movie so many years ago and I loved it. She was just so comfortable in her own skin eventually. I need to rewatch!
BTW, B- I totally saw that movie so many years ago and I loved it. She was just so comfortable in her own skin eventually. I need to rewatch!
yes, it's a great movie. I love what she said to her daughters about her beau, and what could happen with the relationship. worth a re-watch. xoxo lemme know what you think of that scene.
I have an interview tomorrow morning. A recruiter from a health system found my resume. He screened me, forwarded it and they wanted an interview with me . So tomorrow morning virtual. They asked what salary I’m shooting for and I gave one that would give me some comfort in my life. According to the recruiter it’s a little higher than what they are offering, but not that far out of the ballpark. I was honest and said I am happy where I work right now and it would take something like this for me to leave. The position is a stretch. It’s a regional director of case managers for a huge healthcare system that goes into other states. The hospital that would be my home base is in the town my D goes to school in. It’s seriously a long shot, I don’t know that my resume is impressive enough. We shall see.
Work has really been draining me, honestly. We keep getting more responsibilities on top of the ones that cause us yo work more than our salaried hours . I work way too much for free . I’m sick of working all the other additional hours I can get in my other jobs. Im tired. Im at wits end . I at least want compensation for what I do.
This weekend D dog sat for one of my coworkers . She stayed over and slept alone for the first time ever. She didn’t really it like it someone else’s house, but she did fine. I actually spent all Saturday with her there , we went to target, and out to our special dinner place. She’s babysitting at 7:30 in the morning tomorrow . Kid has champagne tastes in a beer budget so I’m happy she’s making a few bucks . She stared cheer coaching last week and really likes it. I’m happy to see her throw herself into something like this. She’s still living in this world like nothing ever happened with her dad. And there isn’t much I can do about it.
Me and the hickey player communicate every day. It will be over 3 weeks since we will have seen eachother when we finally do . But I have no anxiousness around it at all. I can’t be fine with us on any level unless I know he is taking care of what he needs . Our timing is pretty bad right now as far as seeing eachother. Moving is kind of huge with all these vacations. But we are cool with it. I feel relaxed. I don’t feel a need to keep him interested or close or be totally accommodating. So far with him, he might be the first guy I feel so comfortable being me. I don’t know what will happen. But I know I won’t regret anything .
As far as me. I’m having a serious MLC over here. I’m really freaking out a bit. And I think it has to do with social media. I think I’m going to have to sign off. All I see are these big beautiful family vacations ! Brothers, sisters, cousins, beach, fun, and all around awesomeness. All I have ever wanted. I have like the reverse MLC. Married and family folk feel like they are missing out on single fun, and here I am feeling awful I missed out on the family life. And I know it’s too late for a lot of it. The parties, vacations, gatherings……. Really never had it in my childhood and never had it in my adulthood. I guess we all want what we don’t have. It’s an awfully lonely life for me .
I also haven’t been such a great mom lately. I make far too many comments about my exes lifestyle every time my kid asks me to buy her something she wants or needs. And she is convinced her dad doesn’t have much money and only spends on vacation and that’s why. I asked her what I spend on. She says I don’t know. But dad is cheap everywhere else ( basically with her )
It’s not her problem though. And I am so frustrated I can’t stop with the comments. It’s can’t be good for hers so I have to start doing better. It’s my resolution for now .
We have this new hospitalist at work. And our wonderful , yet conservative, married , and professional and lovely director of hospitalists even says “ he’s really easy on the eyes, isn’t he?!?l “ and good lord, yes he is. He comes by office everyday to go over his cases with me and I become all awkward, lol. He’s probably 35 at best. And I think he needs to be set up with our other awesome single hospitalist his age. I’m working on it .
In a nutshell. I need more fun and less work. I’m burning out FAST! I even took a 3 hour ap today because I haven’t been sleeping properly. It’s just all too much, as usual.
Hopefully something gives soon
A nice little example of the money situation. D has a babysitting gig tomorrow I can drive her to, but her grandmas has to pick her up. She needs gas money. I guess ex can’t give her the whole $10 and my daughter had to call me from his house to hit me up for the other $5.
My blood boils . I sent $10 . I am happy I have some of her help the past 5 years I never had. But that is his mom helping his daughter and he has to split it with me?
After this week I am off for a week. I’m going to finally find some time which j haven’t had to figure out this child support thing. I am so done
I have an interview tomorrow morning. A recruiter from a health system found my resume. He screened me, forwarded it and they wanted an interview with me . So tomorrow morning virtual. They asked what salary I’m shooting for and I gave one that would give me some comfort in my life. According to the recruiter it’s a little higher than what they are offering, but not that far out of the ballpark. I was honest and said I am happy where I work right now and it would take something like this for me to leave. The position is a stretch. It’s a regional director of case managers for a huge healthcare system that goes into other states. The hospital that would be my home base is in the town my D goes to school in. It’s seriously a long shot, I don’t know that my resume is impressive enough. We shall see.
You ARE impressive. Don't sell yourself short. If YOU do - what stops them from doing it.
I'm also confused why you are saying that it would only take a salary increase above when below you are saying how draining work is below. There seems to be some sabotage in there? Would you not take the job if the salary was the same and your weren't overworked?
Work has really been draining me, honestly. We keep getting more responsibilities on top of the ones that cause us yo work more than our salaried hours . I work way too much for free . I’m sick of working all the other additional hours I can get in my other jobs. Im tired. Im at wits end . I at least want compensation for what I do.
Learn to say NO at work. There are some great reading materials out there how women can do this w/o looking like a b!tch. Yeah it can be uncomfortable but you have to teach people how to treat you.
Push back... create boundaries. They will learn and they will adjust.
This weekend D dog sat for one of my coworkers . She stayed over and slept alone for the first time ever. She didn’t really it like it someone else’s house, but she did fine. I actually spent all Saturday with her there , we went to target, and out to our special dinner place. She’s babysitting at 7:30 in the morning tomorrow . Kid has champagne tastes in a beer budget so I’m happy she’s making a few bucks . She stared cheer coaching last week and really likes it. I’m happy to see her throw herself into something like this. She’s still living in this world like nothing ever happened with her dad. And there isn’t much I can do about it.
I think the big thing is that you continue to separate her fears from her thoughts. I remember you responding to me about how she "feels" like she is breaking up her family. That's not actually a feeling... it's a thought. Knowing and communicating the difference is key because feelings just are.. but thoughts (which can often be distorted)... we actually have some control over.
As far as me. I’m having a serious MLC over here. I’m really freaking out a bit. And I think it has to do with social media. I think I’m going to have to sign off. All I see are these big beautiful family vacations ! Brothers, sisters, cousins, beach, fun, and all around awesomeness. All I have ever wanted. I have like the reverse MLC. Married and family folk feel like they are missing out on single fun, and here I am feeling awful I missed out on the family life. And I know it’s too late for a lot of it. The parties, vacations, gatherings……. Really never had it in my childhood and never had it in my adulthood. I guess we all want what we don’t have. It’s an awfully lonely life for me .
This sounds like grief and it comes out alot in your posts. How much time have you spent really processing all the grief you have experienced?
I also haven’t been such a great mom lately. I make far too many comments about my exes lifestyle every time my kid asks me to buy her something she wants or needs. And she is convinced her dad doesn’t have much money and only spends on vacation and that’s why. I asked her what I spend on. She says I don’t know. But dad is cheap everywhere else ( basically with her )
I truly believe you making the time and putting your XH feet to the fire with child support will really help with this on your end of things. You've been carrying too much for far too long... it's time you share the load.
That must be really hard on her... knowing that she's not important to him in certain ways. It probably plays a huge part on why she acts like nothing happened. My suggestion is to continue make space for HER in these moments when she does make these comments... and for you to find OTHER people to talk to about him.
In a nutshell. I need more fun and less work. I’m burning out FAST! I even took a 3 hour ap today because I haven’t been sleeping properly. It’s just all too much, as usual.
Hopefully something gives soon
From what I have read in your posts throughout the years is that life has been hard for you. Between your parents and your XH - the only person you know you can rely on is YOU. I think it has served you well in many areas... but I also wonder if it also keeps you stuck. I wonder how much suffering you put yourself through because the alternative of the unknown is far scarier.
I know it may seem that life is not giving your many choices... but maybe G - the choices just scare the absolute sh!t out of you... and you'd rather just put everything on your shoulders because... as tired as your are... or as angry as you get... you still know it is a safe option. Even if it means betraying your needs and wants.
I think you are wonderfully strong...truly. I just want to see you be truly strong for yourself as well.
“the hickey player” lol - that’s his official title now.
[quote=Ginger1]As far as me. I’m having a serious MLC over here. I’m really freaking out a bit. And I think it has to do with social media. I think I’m going to have to sign off. All I see are these big beautiful family vacations ! Brothers, sisters, cousins, beach, fun, and all around awesomeness. All I have ever wanted. I have like the reverse MLC. Married and family folk feel like they are missing out on single fun, and here I am feeling awful I missed out on the family life. And I know it’s too late for a lot of it. The parties, vacations, gatherings……. Really never had it in my childhood and never had it in my adulthood. I guess we all want what we don’t have. It’s an awfully lonely life for me .
This sounds like grief and it comes out alot in your posts. How much time have you spent really processing all the grief you have experienced?
I also haven’t been such a great mom lately. I make far too many comments about my exes lifestyle every time my kid asks me to buy her something she wants or needs. And she is convinced her dad doesn’t have much money and only spends on vacation and that’s why. I asked her what I spend on. She says I don’t know. But dad is cheap everywhere else ( basically with her )
I truly believe you making the time and putting your XH feet to the fire with child support will really help with this on your end of things. You've been carrying too much for far too long... it's time you share the load.
That must be really hard on her... knowing that she's not important to him in certain ways. It probably plays a huge part on why she acts like nothing happened. My suggestion is to continue make space for HER in these moments when she does make these comments... and for you to find OTHER people to talk to about him.
I agree 100% ....
G...
You have to realize that even though they are tied together, what is going on is actually several layers of issues with this.
Protecting baby G..
The betrayal by him of you..
The betrayal by him of his marriage AGAIN...
The kind of person he has shown himself to be continually....
The kind of example of "what a man is supposed to be" that he is showing to Gabs...
Maybe take some time and realize what hill you are charging up, before you act on anything....
Realize where those thoughts are coming from and which one of you is thinking those thoughts.
Standing on the hill of Mama Bear, you are likely to say and think things that have been repressed for years now.
Standing on the hill of an LBS, you are likely to think and say different things....
Questioning the quality of person that you are, for choosing him in the first place....
Questioning that by J being him, what example is he showing to Gabs of the kind of Man that she will choose in her life.
So yea, step back and feel WHO you are in whatever comes up before you say or think things...
And it may take a conscious effort to do so until you can process this the way you need to...
That's a lot of hills girl....
And you've been so busy protecting her that you forgot that you have schidt to process too...
Burnt ?
Well yeah....you rarely take any time for you, and you run 100mph everywhere you go and in everything that you do....
So maybe take some time for just you when you are off....
Stop by the Sundowner and unwind a bit....
: )
Good luck on your interview. I know you’ll knock ‘em dead!
I finally had some time to reply to some of these insightful and very helpful posts and I started typing and I got the “break up” phone call from the hockey player. I felt something was off from our last date and I wasn’t wrong. Sometimes I think I’m paranoid but my gut is always 100% right. We ended up meeting up on Thursday as I had the day off. It was actually a fantastic day, we got a massage and hung out down the shore on the boardwalk ate and had some drinks. He told me how awesome the day was etc. then the next day I felt the distance. And a woman knows . He called me to tell me he has strong feelings for me. Went in to list everything he liked about me , etc. but said he was falling into his old patterns ( like getting into a relationship too fast) and he knows he needs to take time to work on himself. He’s doing the whole move in to his new place this week ( the one he couldn’t wait to have me to, lol) he said he hated having to do this, but he has to. He says he knows it’s cliche but he really wants to stay friends and that he hopes I do to and did say he would be hearing from me soon. I didn’t really respond to that, because I really honestly didn’t know how I felt about that in the moment.
I was/am sitting alone the beach when he called me . I’m trying to figure out how I feel about this. On one hand I knew this was going to happen. I know I broke my rules. Did I hope maybe it would turn out good? Yes. I tried to put a little hope out into the universe. Do something different. Go with the flow.
Now how do I feel about him as a person? I still think he is a great person. I actually still and kept seeing a whole bunch of green flags, except maybe getting out there too early. He has been super respectful of me, we talked openly about our situation, we agreed when it wasn’t going to work anymore we would be honest and communicate. And he did just that. He called, made the respectful phone call. I just didnt expect it to be this soon. I also didn’t expect coming off a date where we talked about the awesomeness of it all. But I guess that put him back in reality and where he needs to be right now. The timing was awful for us. Part of me feels like he wasn’t the wrong person, it was truly the wrong time . Regardless, this blows.
My life has really been so stressful lately. With my ex and work, and money, and Time I just have been feeling so so so so heavy. I have a lot of decisions to make too. He was always the bright spot in my day. We weren’t surface level, we connected, we had depth, he was communicative, he have shared interests. He really liked things about me that I didn’t think were all that likable. But he had to do what he had to do and I do believe he had my feelings in mind when he did it.
Another one bites the dust!!! What else is new? Guess I’ll stick to my rules from now on. Rules are there for a reason, right? I’m also taking a break from dating. I just can’t really handle the soul crush now that dating can be.
I’m at my dads because the 3 of us are going to see a concert tonight I have to wipe my tears away before I go back up and I’ll soldier on. I’m not going to let this ruin fun plans I have. I don’t get them very often and I want to fully enjoy myself.
I know some people might come out and blame me and say “you knew how this was going to end” and don’t worry, I beat myself up enough in the last half hour and I am sure I will continue too. But I would like to go easy on myself just a little for once. I took a chance, it didn’t end the way I hoped and I now I hurt, but that’s a part of life. I knew I was taking a huge risk, I went with the flow, but it just ended not the way I hoped and now I simply have to deal with that.
I’m a pro at getting over guys though. So I’ll get over this one. He was something special though. Just super bad timing .
Guess I’ll stick to my rules from now on. Rules are there for a reason, right?
Ginger, is your life richer or worse off after having this brief fling with the hockey player? That's the key question. It's fine to explore people where the chances of an LTR are low to nil if you can enjoy the experience for what it is--the sex, the company, the deep conversations--without any expectations of more. If you can't, yes, going with guys with better odds is wise.
I know some people might come out and blame me. I beat myself up enough in the last half hour and I am sure I will continue too.
We can't change that some on this forum enjoy doing that, but I hope you won't beat yourself up. Like any like experience, you did your best, learn what you can from this and move on! Enjoy your concert.
You took a chance, at least you knew you were taking it. I’d be careful to stay out of the “friend zone” with this guy - it might make him feel better, but I think it would make you feel worse. I’d just let him know, if he calls, that you’d prefer not to hear from him until/ unless he’s actually ready to date.
((((Hug)))))
I do know I would have regretted not seeing what happens. I enjoyed my time with him and I don’t regret it, but I am very sad. I know people take what I say tongue in cheek, but I have been the block enough to know this guy at a different time could have been the real deal.
You are right KML. I have been thinking about the friends thing. I know myself all too well. I can’t turn off romantic feelings and go right to friends. And the whole time I am “friends” I will be hoping he will change his mind and want to be more. Then I will have to watch him find the “one” like I always do. I can’t put myself through that. I put myself through it on and off for 4 years a long time ago. And the pain was there for a long time.
I know my tendency due to my abandonment issues to hope if I’m just perfect and the best friend ever that he would come around and want to be with me . I know it doesn’t work that way. I have learned that the hard way. And I also know my tendency to feel like a sh!tty person if I decide not accept the friend offer. But I know he did what he had to do and I have to do what I have to do for self preservation.
That’s the positive I will take from this, I am way more self aware. I know my tendencies and I have to make sure I don’t do what is good for others. I was listening to a podcast today that hot home. I tend to do what makes others comfortable and secure and sacrifice myself doing it . I can’t do that anymore.
He will reach out. I know he will . He will want to share everything he spoke about in his new place. I got him his first bottle of wine for his wine fridge . He said wants to hang out again. I just can’t do it .
I’m hurt though. It really stinks
Odds are, his ex is still tugging some strings, or some old girlfriend has shown up, or he’s actually a Love Avoidant. Whatever it is, a gentle but firm, “call me when you’re ready to date” should be enough.
Then, I would suggest dating or at least GALing.
The red flag I see here is that this guy was pulling back for a bit before, then took you on this date with massage (which is kinda intimate for an early casual date). King of mixed signals, that alone puts me off.
Odds are, his ex is still tugging some strings, or some old girlfriend has shown up, or he’s actually a Love Avoidant. Whatever it is, a gentle but firm, “call me when you’re ready to date” should be enough.
Then, I would suggest dating or at least GALing.
The red flag I see here is that this guy was pulling back for a bit before, then took you on this date with massage (which is kinda intimate for an early casual date). King of mixed signals, that alone puts me off.
Truth is, he didn’t pull back at all until our last date which was a few days ago. I think it was a lot of reality for him.
And he isn’t love avoidant. That’s his problem. He’s all about it and it’s gotten him in trouble in the past. I give him props for recognizing his normal patterns and trying to break them .
I truly believe it’s an unfortunate incidence of bad timing .
I am going to say when you are truly ready to date, call me. But I can’t be his place of comfort during a difficult time. That’s always been my role. I’m done with that
I say he pulled back because he was busy a couple of times and postponed seeing you. People legitimately get busy. But a new guy who’s anxious to see you makes time.
Believe it or not, he went out of his way to see me on our last date. He was super excited, and it was a great day. We both said it. That was too much reality I think .
What am I going to do? Just keep keepin on .
Ginger,
I’m sorry it didn’t go the way you planned. I know it hurts to open yourself up and go with the flow, and also have “hope” this could be the one. As hard as that is, how would you find the “one” if you don’t do that? Why do you feel you don’t want to date for a while? Love is vulnerability. It’s a risk. There is no way to avoid that, is there? I sort of wonder if you would be punishing yourself more by not dating for a while just because this time it didn’t work out. I know hurting [censored]…I just don’t want you to hurt more on top of that. Are you sure its not fear talking instead?
Of course, there are many healthy reasons to pause on dating as well. So please don’t take this as my saying that you shouldn’t do that. I am just asking these questions in the hope that you can understand your reasons and do what is best for yourself.
I also agree that it’s better to not remain friends, but let him know you would love to hear from him again if/when he is ready to date. This gives you space and you would not be wasting your energy on something that may never happen (and I’m sure it would be hard to have friend feelings after all this time). If he needs to work on some things for himself, it gives him that space as well. You never know, he may come around again after he is ready. It really just might be too soon for him, even if he feels strongly about you. You said yourself that he sees how awesome you are. You are not just wanting anyone…you want the right one…and the right one that loves you back the way you need to be loved. He’s out there. I’m sure of it.
Hugs to you…
El
Believe it or not, he went out of his way to see me on our last date. He was super excited, and it was a great day. We both said it. That was too much reality I think .
I don't doubt it at all. You're a catch.
This has nothing to do with you, you both know that.
This is why it infuriates me when people on this board keep encouraging those who are freshly single to get on OLD sites and put themselves out there. To me, advice like that has an unspoken message: "who cares man, if someone gets hurt? You're both adults. you're gonna get some, you're gonna get back out there. Yeah, go man, good for you! If it doesn't work out, who cares? You're here to get back in the game, man!"
What a bunch of absolute Bull, and this is a prime example of why. The selfishness and short-sightedness of that advice leads to a situation where one or both parties get hurt because the person who is freshly single simply isn't ready yet.
What's the short-cut? Going into the pain and fear of being alone, working on your $h!t and coming out the other side stronger, a better person, able to be a better partner. I applaud him for taking the time now to do so. I'm sad that you, G, are in this situation. If it's meant to be, it will be, when it's supposed to be.
Don't bother flaming me for posting this viewpoint, fellow readers. No one is going to change my mind about it, and I've got a full day of putting my life together after a near death experience this weekend, so I'm not going to be here to read about it or waste my precious time responding to it.
G, love you girl. You're the one who knows this guy. Any other comments about him, his personality, his motivations, are speculation, including my own.
First off G I’m sorry this didn’t work out for you. This guy definitely did show some good signs. Something stinks here but I’m not quite sure what it is right now.
BF in response to your post I don’t think I have ever read anyone on the board say anything like you posted. Most people here suggest 1 year and honesty.
Thank you everyone. LH- I really don’t the need there is anything fishy going on at all. Definitely not getting back with wife. Thursday he was showing me some crazy texts she was sending to his sister. I quite truly believe he realized he was having some serious feelings and it’s not what he needs to be doing right now. I do believe he is the type who gets over a relationship with a new relationship and he doesn’t want to be that guy anymore. When he was ending things, I felt he didn’t want to, but he had to. And
In his defense on the dating too early part….. I met him on tinder. I would say he might have been looking for a hook up, but I don’t even. I think his intentions were as you say B-looking for someone to make him feel better maybe for a date and boost his self esteem. And he ended up with me. And I should know better on tinder. Rarely does something good come out of it. Neither of us expected this I guess but we both played with fire.
E- I do absolutely agree. When/if he reaches out in a friends level, I will let him know I cannot remain platonic friends and when he is ready to date for real, he knows where I am . As far as continuing to try to date others? I have too many things in my life right now giving me emotional ups and downs that I don’t think I can have another one on my plate. While I am a generally stable person, I feel like I have too many situations that are unstable right now.
Honestly, I felt vulnerable and safe with him. I haven’t allowed that in so long. And if I’m being honest, I don’t think this is the end for us. I mean, it very well could be, my gut says it isn’t ( my gut has still been right 99.9% of the time. But that won’t stop me from holding back on anything else. I’m just not going to be available to him and do the “ pick me!” Thing. I’m over that. I’m worth enough to not have to win it, or be available for it or try so hard for it. If it’s meant to be, it will be.
For now? I have some career decisions to make . I don’t think the interview went great at that one I had. Not bad, but not great, because I really stink at a half phone half video meeting. But at my other hospital I work at, the director position has been filled by the hospice liaison it my current job, and one of the supervisors there is coming to my main hospital ( took a slower part time job because of kids) so her position is available so my new director is encouraging me to apply when they post it. If that makes any sense. So I’m considering it .
V- to speak to your observation on my current position. I do love the hospital inwork in and I do love my coworkers and that’s what makes my job so tolerable. I have been around and if you don’t have good coworkers, you won’t really be happy. But even after Friday , I feel fed up with it. We keep getting more thrown our plates, can’t get it done in the 8 hour work day, and everything falls apart or changes an hour before I leave and I’m expected to stay. And I don’t get paid to do so. I’m tired of it. But I have thought the grass would be greener on the other side but it never really is. So I am hesitant to make a move.
I also know that I cannot work so many jobs and hours anymore. I can’t do it. I’m always working. But I don’t have much of a choice.
Life has been a challenge for me most of it. Spending most of your life in survival mode is absolutely exhausting. And it’s also aging me.
I do need IC that much I know. I have been letting my stress sleep out in tears and my kid has seen it and I think she’s getting worried . It’s a lot to carry alone. So maybe I can unload some on an IC.
When I leave my very mentally stressful job, I come home to my second job. But my brain stops working. It’s too exhausted. I get my gym time in which I need, but that puts a dent in everything else I have to do. I have this week off, and it’s basically catching up on life.
Enough complaining. At least yesterday was a fun concert night, today is a bike ride, mani pedi, then driving my working girl around to babysitting
Tinder seems to have a reputation as being for hookups, I don't know why you would waste your time on there when there are other OLD services without that reputation.
I’m sorry things didn’t work out. I don’t blame you for taking a chance. I think CW makes a fair point that if your life was enriched by the experience then it could be an overall positive. Maybe he’ll circle back and maybe he won’t and maybe you won’t even want him to. For me, it was a good lesson that you CAN show your vulnerable side to someone and feel good about it.
As far as the job situation, you’re awesome and everyone knows it, so go for those opportunities. If you don’t try, the answer will always be no.
You’re awesome! Now go do something fun!
Thanks so much dawn
he may circle back, he may not, and I may not even be interested. Who knows. I absolutely enjoyed my time with him. I just hate having it taken away.
Yesterday I went to the beach and a concert, today a nice bike ride on the boardwalk and now mani pedi.
Unfortunately a blood vessel broke in my eye and it looks kind of funky. Oh well.
Got the rest of the week off,
Time to sort out my major life stuff I need some mental energy for
Unfortunately a blood vessel broke in my eye and it looks kind of funky. Oh well.
I HATE it when that happens and it's not Halloween!
Today I’m feeling sad. I know it was only a few weeks, but there are different qualities vs. quantity. Our time together was great. So it’s hard to go out on a great note.
Today I bench pressed 105lbs for 4 reps and he would have been the first one to tell who would actually care, lol. He liked to hear about my gym accomplishments. He appreciated my strength and drive .
This blows.
I get that he SEEMED great. If he really IS, he'll show back up at some later date. But understand that you didn't know him long enough to know if he was REALLY as good as he seemed or not. So go about your life and trust that anything that was actually meant to be will come back to you sometime.
I agree, KML. I only know what I know from the time we were seeing eachother. And I tried to live in the moment. Maybe is really great, maybe he isn't. And I agree, if it's meant to be, it will be. I don't try to hold onto anything so desperately anymore. I'm trusting the universe.
Well, I applied for another job. I mentioned the switcheroo everyone was making between the 2 hospitals. I applied the the supervisor position at my per diem hospital. It's a much bigger hospital so there are a few supervisors. I don't know if anyone over there applied as well.
I do know I am qualified in the sense I do all facets of the job, where as the caremanagers over there do not. A concern of why I wouldn't get it is because I am their strongest per diem player over there who does everything. I hope they don't put that in the equation when they consider me. And a plus is I worked with the new director who encouraged me to come over. SHe even said she does need my help as they have a bigger expectation of her over there than advertised and she is already drowning.
More rejection might stink, but I would regret not trying.
More rejection might stink, but I would regret not trying.
That seems to be a theme...
I've been contemplating chiming in but I honestly don't have anything major to say. I can't really criticize this latest attempt at love. I don't think anything you did really influenced the outcome. He did seem like a decent guy - right to the end of being mature and upstanding in the way he ended it. Did it all just get too real too fast for him? it may have and that may be the only thing you could have done differently - kept it slower so he didn't get overwhelmed and at a pace he could deal with and just let everything grow slowly without him feeling it. Sorta like the frogged theory. Turn up the heat and the frog jumps out. Slowly increase the heat day by day and he never knows.
Is he really changing his ways and looking at what he's done in the past and wanting to do better? Sure, he could but human nature would be more like, "I'm so into this girl and so attracted to her that I can't stop." Maybe he bailed before that happened.
That's more often how it goes, which brings it all back to the above quote - it feels like rejection. How could it not. It's not, mind you, but I'm sure it feels that way. Plus it feels unfinished. It's one thing when you're getting on each other's nerves and looking less and less forward to the next date. But that never happened. It was all going great until he blinked.
Does that mean he was this great guy, the one? No it really doesn't. There's more there that you would have found in time. You just didn't get to - and I totally identify with that.
About the only thing you may have done different is just been totally honest with yourself. You tried to tell us and I'm sure convince yourself, it was just fun, you were just enjoying the time together and whatever happened would happened - no biggie. But the truth was you were really falling for this guy. You probably knew it but didn't want to admit it to yourself and certainly not to us. That's the hard part of it all. What you could have done different is really held back knowing he was a higher than average risk for exactly what happened. But that's way easier said than done.
So you had a great time for a few months but now sorta have to pay the price. If it feels worth it then it was. If you're more upset and sad, and will be for more months, then it might not have been worth that cost. It just sux when you get to experience something pretty great but then have it taken away from you. That has happened to me a few times. No big fights, no drama, none of that - just a short term R that ended nearly as quickly as it started. But I'm not looking for the happily ever after so while it still does feel unfinished, it was still fun and worth it to me. For me, someone in the transition phase might be okay because I'm not setting out for the big R - I'll just accept it if it happens (at least I like to think I will) but if you know that's what you want, then yeah, you probably should have stuck to your rules because he was high risk for exactly what happened.
But like I said, you really did pretty well this time, yeah, too much too fast again but within a reasonable amount. It just feels like it got taken away too soon and that feels like rejection.
Told you I didn't have any major things to say. I am sorry though. I know it hurts.
I’ve been wanting to comment but I feel at this point you don’t want to hear anything I have to say.
Don pretty much covered everything I wanted to say so I thought I would just focus on the dreaded evil here “RULES”.
There is a reason for rules in all aspects of life. Typically we have rules because human beings have a hard time controlling themselves. The only thing worse than rules are “DATING RULES”. People learn things from books all the time in school, college work etc. but for some crazy reason dating rules are icky. Not being too available, not having more than one date a week for the first month. Even though people have been doing research I these things for many years.
It blows it comes to this because you would think that people coming out of marriages would know exactly what to in the midlife dating scene.
Anyho, great news about the gym and the new job! That’s where the focus should be and the rest will work itself out.
Hi Don. Thanks. You pretty much nailed it. It just feels unfinished which stinks and going out on a high note stinks. It’s much easier when you end things because you don’t like eachother anymore, lol. He developed feelings and he knows he shouldn’t be in a relationship now. He is someone who likes to be in one and he does feel like he ended up in this short term not so good marriage because he went from his LTR to her. I really do give him props for making an effort to not let that happen again. He wants the slate to be clean first. It just stinks for me:
LH, I’m pretty sure you violated your rules in your current R. I won’t get into the details here for sake of your privacy. But what you say other women shouldn’t do, she does.
And I saw him 4 times in 5 weeks. And if we went at some rule of pace “one date per week” what difference would that have made? Absolutely none. The outcome would have been the same. I don’t think the fact we had 2 date in the same week changed anything.
Moving fast to me is meeting friends and family and making the person a part of your life. Not a matter of how many dates you have in a week. And fortunately/unfortunately, I cannot just sit there for a few weeks and keep conversation to music hobbies, and how my day at work was. I need depth and conversation and that happens early on. Because there is nothing without it. And I’m super easy to talk to. So I do get to know and connect with people on a more personal level ( friends and dates) faster than most. And yes, that leads to a quicker, slightly deeper connection. That I cannot help. Nor do I want to change it . I would bang my head against a table if all we spoke about was hobbies and work for weeks.
Truth be told….. I haven’t really had feelings with or connected with anyone since M. And that ended 3 years ago nearly to the day. Many dates, a few weeks with some guys, but I felt dead inside with just about all them. And funny, many swung back around at some point. Even Texan . But the ones I didn’t want to swing back around. Actually, I can’t think of any I want to than this guy. But I’m it banking on it.
I do promise one rule I will never break again is dating separated men. Not good. The other day thing is most men my age on these apps are separated or very newly divorced. I’m a rarity who has been divorced for quite some time. I had one guy say he “ making up for lost time after 10 years of misery” because I like to bother these men a a bit I asked him to elaborate. Apparently he missed traveling and time with his friend. This equates to 10 years of misery which was basically being married and raising his kid. This is all I find in the dating pool. And I should probably refrain
Well I can only speak me for myself but when it gets too deep for me too fast I want to bail. There is plenty of time for that later on. In the beginning I want it light and fun. Hangout, have fun and hook up.
I would definitely stay away from married men on Tinder. There is absolutely zero possibility it will end well.
Well I can only speak me for myself but when it gets too deep for me too fast I want to bail. There is plenty of time for that later on. In the beginning I want it light and fun. Hangout, have fun and hook up.
I would definitely stay away from married men on Tinder. There is absolutely zero possibility it will end well.
Trust me, it wasn’t me driving things forward. I can’t even say they went forward. We just really got to know eachother.
If he wasn’t where he was in his life, he wouldn’t bail.
But I have zero attraction with no depth for an extended period of time. That makes me want to bail.
We are all a little different. Some men like you want to bail when you you get to know eachother in a more personal level beyond HHH. Others don’t . Some women want to bail when it’s just HHH with no depth. Others don’t. There is no hard and fast rule with that. People are different
And having depth and vulnerability doesn’t mean it isn’t light and fun too. We had a whole lot of fun. And we could easily make eachother laugh and talk about the surface stuff. Both were present.
I know you are different that’s why it boggles my mind that you think dating men who are still married that you met on Tinder could end well.
This is all I find in the dating pool. And I should probably refrain
I have a theory about this.
Given how Western society generally regards "separated" as more or less the same as "divorced", a lot of the people who are interested in a long term relationship can - and presumably do - jump right into one pretty quickly. So that winnows out the keen and the easily matched up with presumably like-minded individuals at a point in their recovery where "the rules" say to stay away.
From my reading elsewhere the "less keen" - and I'll toss myself into that category - may have dabbled in OLD off and on but are generally absent from that particular pool. So many of the fully divorced, "done the work" sort of people are living their lives outside of the pond.
So that leaves the ones who are in it for some quick booty, the ones who have some sort of fundamental flaw, along with the abandoned profiles, the scammers and the robots. Finding someone who took the time after their last relationship ended, waited for the divorce to sort itself out which can literally take years, and then consider putting themselves "out there" in OLD, while already having proven to themselves that they can get along perfectly fine on their own are the rare tosheroon in the muck at the bottom of the pond.
Just my 2 cents.
What’s a tosheroon?
Gosh, everyone has such a negative view of OLD. But if we’re on there, other people like us must be too?
I mean, if OLD isn’t working for you, you should try something else. It doesn’t work for everyone. Or use a site that has more detailed profiles and isn’t known for hookups like Tinder .
None of my OLD dates were recently divorced or separated. That eliminated those issues, but did lead to me dating some Love Avoidant types. Honestly, men who were happy being married are highly likely to pair up again quickly after a divorce or being widowed. Heck, my exH started dating his current wife just 9 months after we split, and a year before we finished our divorce. (Not that I think he’s any prize, but his wife must think he is).
I didn’t date anyone who was still hung up on an exW or unavailable for dating, but I did lose one to his old high school love, so dating is always a risk.
Yesterday I had my interview. It was a viedo interview, they happent o be my 2 supervisors currently at my per diem job. The interview actually went very well and was very positive. They said they do have alot of interest internally and externally, but hope ot be done with the interviews by weeks end. Who know what is going ot happen. But I am happy with the way it went. After that me and D's friends got ready for the big quinceanerra. Lots hair styling and make up for all of us. Wow, by baby looked like a beautoful adult! I did get some pdictures, and it meant alot to me, because we never get pictures together. I actually had a blast, It was at a beautiful venue and it was pretty much a wedding. Cocktail hour, open bar, DJ, dinner and dessert. They had ot have dropped a cool 20-30K on this event. ANd they have another daughter to go. Viedeograpers, photographers, the whole 9. I hung out with 2 of gabbys D's friends parents (2 sets of husbands and wives). ONe that I have been friends with forever and the other for a bit. We had a blast. Actually we all made plans to go to the music at the town lake tonight, but truth be told, I didn't get much sleep, had to work and I am tired. Even though I ahve serious FOMO, I just don't have the energy and sat this one out
Oh, and D was sweet, the couples were taking pictures at the photo booth and I asked D if she would od the photo booth with me, fully expecting a "no mom" but she did. It made me so happy. The parents were talking about how we all felt fortunate they are such a good set of girls and that we always have comfort in the friends they are hanging out with. Honestly, and not biasedly, they are all quite stunning young ladies. But they don't even realize it. Just gorgeous but humble.
Today would have been my 18th wedding anniversary, They really don't count, since we only had 4, and we seperated before the 4th. I also doubt he even remebers that ti was our anniversary. Although I hear he keeps a wedding picture of us hiddend in a drawer. ANyways, on what would have been our anniversary, D, her friend, him and his wife left for their annual myrtle beach vacation. Ironic isn't it? She loves this annual trip and I hope she has a good time.
I pulled a msucle yesterday at the gym. I actually think I need to take a but of a rest, I have been going 3x week for these hardcore hour long classes and i have been lifting heavy. My body HURTS! I may be going on a bike ride tomorrow, a 20-30 mi one, but I think I can handle that. I am joining my frineds bike club chapter too. I repainted my old beat up TV console with electric fireplace. It looks brandnew! It's quite satisfying! I like having hobbies. I despise not having much time for them with my multiple jobs. I have ot sacrifice something always, then it stresses me out not getting what I need to get done.
Dating. Well, I have been thinking ALOT about it. 3 years ago M broke up with me, I haven;t had ay real connections or feelings since him, exvept for hockey guy. So I think that's why this one makes me so sad. I have went on so many dates since M. I have mostly felt dead inside. I went through my ho year, trying to fill some void but that didnt work I tried to talk myself into liking some guys. I also began to think that dating right now in this climate at this age is what it is. A bunch of people wanting no reald commitment and just sex. I almost told myself that this is the new norm, get used to it. Rarely did have I chatted with a guy who wants to date for real. All just busy professionals and parents whos "kids are their number one priority" ( I say that, because no sh!t). who just want to size a woman up as a sexual partner when it works for them. This is literally all I get. In some weird way, I must exude that? But i must have one of the most conservative online profiles out there for women. I jus tthought "this is what it is now, go with it or don't" But I am feeling demeaned. Online dating can very well be very demeaning. I worked with a coworker today who had just come back to work with us on the weekends. She said to me "Don't ever settle" and I did. I found myself mentally trying to settle. But I would I need to? I have provided for my own needs. I don't have any reason to settle.
I am sad I never got the partner experience. The raising my kid together experience. The extended family experience. The couples nights out and trips and get togethers. I have been waking up to an empty bed for most of the last 14 years. NO partner. I mourn I never had, It is absikutely a grief. I mourn for the times i Came close, but then got my dreams shot down. I can't go back and get any of this. My time has passed. And I really don't feel so hopefuly going forward about finding that one respectful geat person to go forward with at this stage. But I also know I won't settle.
That's enough of my wordiness. I made so many mistakes in my life. They ahve colored my today. None of them, however, were from bad intention or maliciouness. I still beat myself up sometimes and blame myself for where I am now. I am absilutely responsibile for a great deal of it and wrong decisions. I am just going to try to do better for myself everyday
So if A guy has a career/job, kids, friends, hobbies, gym etc his time is very limited. How do you know if he is just available when he wants sex or he’s just available when he has free time?
So if A guy has a career/job, kids, friends, hobbies, gym etc his time is very limited. How do you know if he is just available when he wants sex or he’s just available when he has free time?
We are all adults here with these responsibilities, right ? No different than me or you. The difference is the ones who compromise or make an effort to spend time vs. the ones who use expect you to fit into their schedule as if I just sit around here not having a life at all. I have a job and half, my kid majority of the time, hobbies, gym, a house to keep up. I don’t expect anyone to just fit into MY free time . If I really want to date, I compromise, make time, shift stuff around.
And the ones who mainly want sex certain my let me know. When you start off with “I have like no time except a Sunday around 4 pm and start talking about sexual preferences you just know
Seriously , most men I encounter seem to just want to date only if it fits perfectly into their schedule and aren’t mindful at all of the woman’s schedule as if I’m just sitting here twiddling my thumbs with tons of time on my hands . It’s actually infuriating . They only want what’s easy and convenient
Also, when a person wants to hang out with their friends, go to the gym or participate in a hobby, they make time for it, right? Does it just fit into empty spots on the calendar ? Nah, you move stuff around for the things you want.
And if a guy really wants to date, he will do the same. If it’s something they really don’t care about, they won’t. Same for women. You can only expect the best quality from the time you make for your friends and hobbies. Same goes for someone who is looking for a quality partner
I’m still confused. Pretty much all four relationships I was in that when to exclusivity consisted of two nights per week on a good week. 95% of the time it included sex. Not one girl ever said “ you only want to see me when you want sex”. Is it possible you are making assumptions?
I’m still confused. Pretty much all four relationships I was in that when to exclusivity consisted of two nights per week on a good week. 95% of the time it included sex. Not one girl ever said “ you only want to see me when you want sex”. Is it possible you are making assumptions?
When you began talking to these woman, was it all about sex? Did you get to know eachother first? Or just talk about how you really have no time, but want to get together?
NOt assumptions. They have been pretty clear
Oh looks, he’s calling them relationships! Exclusive before the 2 month mark, this a first!!!!!!
I’m still confused. Pretty much all four relationships I was in that when to exclusivity consisted of two nights per week on a good week. 95% of the time it included sex. Not one girl ever said “ you only want to see me when you want sex”. Is it possible you are making assumptions?
When you began talking to these woman, was it all about sex? Did you get to know eachother first? Or just talk about how you really have no time, but want to get together?
NOt assumptions. They have been pretty clear
Ok so you and these dudes are talking sex right out of the gate. I get it now.
Oh looks, he’s calling them relationships! Exclusive before the 2 month mark, this a first!!!!!!
I have agreed to exclusivity in the past prior to the 2 month mark when asked and I was prepared to abide by the agreement.
Never after two dates though.
My assumption is that OLD is not broken, I think it takes longer than one thinks to weed out the bad ones and find the gems. There are people looking for love and long term relationships out there, as many of our posters are doing OLD an looking for those things. You can’t say a bag of apples are all bad if just a few of them are. Each apple is still it’s own apple and it grew at it’s own pace. It may have come from the best part of the tree or the worst…all ending up in the same bag. But those apples are not equal.
There are guys out there who value their partners and are growing and would make good life “partners”. I truly believe that. But I do think you will not see those guys right away in the OLD pool or otherwise. What you see in people when you first meet them is not the real person. It’s only after time and familiarity do someone’s true nature become visible. It’s true for all of us. So you really cannot judge everyone by what you see before you really get to know someone. And that takes time. It also takes events to happen that also show someone’s character (hopefully events that are difficult or challenging).
From your threads, it seems you are basing your ‘failed attempts’ on very short relationships. Being intimate too soon also can cloud one’s judgement of someone because you get attached to them even if they are not worthy in other ways (or the hormones make you ‘forgive’ some things you normally would not). Have you considered trying to date more than one guy at a time for at least 3-5 dates each and not being intimate with any of them until at least 15-20 dates? To me, if a guy really likes you for you, he will be willing to wait for intimacy and wait to be exclusive with you. If he is really only after sex or isn’t really relationship material, seems that you will find that out before the end of 15-20 dates, and because you are not exclusive, you will still be exploring other options and not feeling as bad about it (you will have other distractions). You will have others to explore and compare as well, all knowledge to bring you closer to what you really want in someone. This is what I am planning to do when I start dating in the next few months. And I think I will use a dating coach because I do not trust my picker (I’m also considering a matchmaker, but leaning more towards a coach). I’d rather take things slow than end up with someone of poor character again. I’ve also learned that we allow people to treat us the way they do…and people are not always sincere and honest. So, taking it slower and not rushing is a smart way to weed out those guys that are not worth commitment.
Anyway, I think you are amazing. You have so much to offer. You are smart, you have grit, you are funny, and you are so loving. And that is just naming a few things about you that are obvious on this board. I know you are frustrated that you have not found someone yet. That you feel ‘rejected’ on some levels. That something must be wrong with you. But do you have proof that any of the guys that rejected you were really worthy of you? Or that something is wrong with you? I think most of those guys fell away because they were not worthy of you. You say you will not settle. But the way you describe the ending of many of these relationships speaks more that you feel rejected or frustrated instead of empowered and hopeful that each one of these guys out of the way leaves room to find the right one for you. Not settling is an action isn’t it? Doesn’t not settling mean that you are still searching? Giving up or taking a break is not the same thing as not settling to me. Maybe you do need a break…a break to get back into yourself, to rediscover your worthiness, and to reintroduce yourself back to your bad@ss empowered amazing and deserving of a worthy partner self. Then you get back out there and search for a guy worthy of you.
(((Ginger1)))
El
I think Super G and LH should just admit how they really feel about each other, get a room and work out all this sexual tension in the vein of that old Charley Rich song, "Behind Closed Doors"
chick
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Bow
Wow
I’m not LH’s type. He has a thing for rail thin overly tan blondes. I don’t fit the bill. Too much junk in my trunk
I am going to make a separate post for your post E. I have been thinking a lot on it .
So today I got offered the job of assistant manager of care management at my other hospital . The raise wasn’t nearly what I thought it would be, but it’s something . I can keep my job per Diem though where I work now currently for some extra $$$
I’m not as excited as I thought I would be. First, 2 of the people I told asked if the cost of the commute ( not far, just not around the corner) is just going to cancel out the raise. Like it wasn’t a “wow, that’s awesome response “ then people know how much I really do love my current hospital and the people who work there so they ask “is it worth it?”
So I’m freaking out a little. What if I hate it? I am not even afraid at failing at it. I’m just afraid I’m going to miss everyone and the patient contact and the joking around with the ruses on the unit .
I know, I know, I got what I want and I should be happy, but I am scared to get out of my comfort zone. I’m afraid to make a wrong decision. Afraid to take the small piece of stability out of my life. I’m just praying I am making the right decision. I just doubt myself too much.
On another note. I had a nervous breakdown last night , lol. I went on a date. Good looking guy. Good banter and connection on text. OMG. The date was torture. He literally spoke about himself the whole time. Bragging about everything . Talking about the beautiful successful women he’s dated. Obsessing over the fact he’s “ skinny” now ( gained weight during covid and lost it). I literally sat there, at my good and stared at Him the whole time. I actually said to him “ why the F are you out with me? “ and he laughed and kept talking.
And he actually wanted to see me again! And I actually said “why, you didn’t get to know anything about me ?” He laughed! It was insane . I actually went and grabbed a beer at the bar. Some older guys bought me a beer and chatted. Then I went home and cried and cried and cried until my eyes swelled shut. I am 42 years old and this has become torture. I find someone that is awesome and he’s not ready. And I cannot find one decent person who isn’t a train wreck. And I think it’s making me a train wreck. I psychoanalyze every guy I meet. I don’t even know where to give concession to anymore. I don’t think I can ever trust a guy to make me feel safe and loved.
Negative post with good news today and that’s sad. I am actually excited for my new role. It’s going to be great on my resume either way. I’m hoping it helps me secure employment when I move. Because I’m still moving.
I just feel unsettled and anxious. However,
Im in Atlantic City for a few days with my cousin and her family. Had a nice beach day today, good dinner, and won some money playing black jack. I needed a distraction. I’m not ready to think about the details yet
I’m not LH’s type. He has a thing for rail thin overly tan blondes. I don’t fit the bill. Too much junk in my trunk
You forgot big boobs.
I know, I know, I got what I want and I should be happy, but I am scared to get out of my comfort zone. I’m afraid to make a wrong decision. Afraid to take the small piece of stability out of my life. I’m just praying I am making the right decision. I just doubt myself too much.
Fortune favors the bold!
On another note. I had a nervous breakdown last night , lol. I went on a date. Good looking guy. Good banter and connection on text. OMG. The date was torture. He literally spoke about himself the whole time. Bragging about everything . Talking about the beautiful successful women he’s dated. Obsessing over the fact he’s “ skinny” now ( gained weight during covid and lost it). I literally sat there, at my good and stared at Him the whole time. I actually said to him “ why the F are you out with me? “ and he laughed and kept talking.
The definition of insanity is..................?
Then I went home and cried and cried and cried until my eyes swelled shut.
It's good to cleanse it right out of the system.
I am 42 years old and this has become torture.
So how can we change it up?
I find someone that is awesome and he’s not ready.
Well married people typically are not ready to date. I believe it is one of your rules no?
And I cannot find one decent person who isn’t a train wreck.
Well you can but you are typically not attracted to those kind of men.
And I think it’s making me a train wreck.
So Tinder is making you a train wreck? Hmmm maybe delete it?
I psychoanalyze every guy I meet.
You should vet every guy you meet to see if he is a match.
I don’t even know where to give concession to anymore.
Really?
I don’t think I can ever trust a guy to make me feel safe and loved.
Ever?
Negative post with good news today and that’s sad.
It is sad. This is because your entire outlook on life revolves around your love life.
I am actually excited for my new role. It’s going to be great on my resume either way. I’m hoping it helps me secure employment when I move. Because I’m still moving.
Best thing you wrote today!
I just feel unsettled and anxious. However, Im in Atlantic City for a few days with my cousin and her family. Had a nice beach day today, good dinner, and won some money playing black jack. I needed a distraction. I’m not ready to think about the details yet
Stay in the moment! Enjoy your time away!
This may hurt a bit.....
So I’m freaking out a little. What if I hate it? I am not even afraid at failing at it. I’m just afraid I’m going to miss everyone and the patient contact and the joking around with the ruses on the unit .
I know, I know, I got what I want and I should be happy, but I am scared to get out of my comfort zone. I’m afraid to make a wrong decision. Afraid to take the small piece of stability out of my life. I’m just praying I am making the right decision. I just doubt myself too much.
You and I have talked about this off board quite a bit, and I feel like every time you get close to this, you run from it...
Why do you feel that you lack the self -confidence to self validate yourself, in almost every aspect of your life. ???
Why do you continuously seek that ever elusive approval ??
Cause until you can deal with 'her/them', you are always going to 'feel' this way....
Until you can find peace within yourself, you are never going to be comfortable enough to appreciate what you can be for yourself....
It's time G.....just F-ing do it already....
Some older guys bought me a beer and chatted. Then I went home and cried and cried and cried until my eyes swelled shut. I am 42 years old and this has become torture. I find someone that is awesome and he’s not ready. And I cannot find one decent person who isn’t a train wreck. And I think it’s making me a train wreck. I psychoanalyze every guy I meet. I don’t even know where to give concession to anymore. I don’t think I can ever trust a guy to make me feel safe and loved
You meet the same guy every couple weeks, in the same way, do the same things, feel the same way about the direction of things, say that you are going to follow the same rules, then break the same rules, it ends the same way, and you feel the same way afterward, and then group them into the same category, say you aren't going to date again, date again the next week...
Rinse , Later, Repeat...
And yet you don't see how any of this ties together...
It ALL stems from the validation issues and approval seeking that you crave and refuse to acknowledge.
You anal-ize them because internally, you are wanting for something to jump out at you and tell you that he is the one, or yep, she would approve, or yes, this(he) makes me feel good enough about myself to be confident...
Your answer to all of that , lies within yourself...
The scary part is that you have allowed yourself to become "okay" with all of that, because it's easier than facing yourself...
The problem that I have learned with online dating is.....that you can NEVER see the heart of the person...
Their conviction, morals, character, and what they are when the schidt hits the fan....
That ^^^ can't be encapsulated in a dating profile....swipe left, swipe right. ....bullsh!t...
Have we really been reduced as a society to judge anther person merely by this....sad actually...
So attraction is based on what you see, and what is presented. who cares if it is a profile picture from 5 years ago....
Seeing the heart of another person takes time to develop.
The connection, is what drives us to find out what the heart is....
And you cannot govern 'affairs of the heart' with "rules"...
So your attraction is based off of your eyes, and not
your heart....
Yet, your FIRST attraction should be yourself....
What you posted up there ^^^ could have been any post from 2016. 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 from you.....
When do you want this to end ???
Cause you are the only one that has the power to do so....
Ginger1,
So today I got offered the job of assistant manager of care management at my other hospital.
Congratulations!!! That's wonderful!
The raise wasn’t nearly what I thought it would be, but it’s something .
Can you tell them "I'm very excited for the position, but was hoping the raise would be X...are you able to offer more?". Sometimes a simple innocent question can result in more $. Worst case they say "no". I was literally just having a conversation with my uncle on the beach this week about how the people who negotiate upfront early in their careers statistically end up with way more compensation in the same position down the line.
I know, I know, I got what I want and I should be happy, but I am scared to get out of my comfort zone. I’m afraid to make a wrong decision. Afraid to take the small piece of stability out of my life. I’m just praying I am making the right decision. I just doubt myself too much.
I recently had a career discussion with my director. He told me he's glad to hear I'm "happy" in my current position but not happy to hear I'm "comfortable". His point of view is learning and growth come from placing ourselves outside of our comfort zones. Who knows where it might lead. It's natural to have some uneasiness about an unknown but it can often lead to great opportunities.
Then I went home and cried and cried and cried until my eyes swelled shut. I am 42 years old and this has become torture.
Sorry :-/
I find someone that is awesome and he’s not ready.
It seemed to me that you didn't know him long enough to know whether he's awesome. Everyone has their fault which come out over time, and him still being married was a big red flag. You knew that going in, but wanted it not to be the case.
I am actually excited for my new role. It’s going to be great on my resume either way. I’m hoping it helps me secure employment when I move. Because I’m still moving.
Awesome! Great attitude.
Im in Atlantic City for a few days with my cousin and her family. Had a nice beach day today, good dinner, and won some money playing black jack.
Did you see any of the air show?!?
Ginger, I'm sorry you came home from your date crying. I wonder if it was partly your job uncertainty? Of course, most new people we meet aren't going to become lovers or good friends. Those outcomes are exceptions, not the norm.
You've cried over first dates before. I wonder why you expect---need?--these dates to be more. My life is about my kids, my adventures, and my charity. I have a BFF I call to talk about big developments in my life. My happy. My grounding. A first date is just meeting someone new--sometimes it's fun, good conversation, or sex. Often it's just hearing about someone else's journey while on a walk or taking a drink. Expecting more makes me wonder if you're over the last guy or can strengthen one of those other areas of your life--go on an adventure, deepen a friendship, or daily gratitude. So dates are just dates!
I’m going to open up a new thread later. Just quickly,
I didnt cry over the date. It was just the one thing that sent me over the edge of the stress I’ve been under. I’ve been repressing a lot of feelings lately and they just came out. That certainly wasn’t over this Dbag. I’m blessed with deep friendship, i have my small hobbies I don’t need adventures . I good there. I just have to much on my plate and sometimes we just need to have the nervous breakdown we deserve . I don’t like to cram so many things into every minute of my day. My job isn’t flexible, I have to be at work for 8 hours a day. My child is with me for 80% of the time. I just need a breather, really. And again, dating is really tough for women and our “fun experience” is different. These guys have a goal. Sex. It gets uncomfortable and degrading .
BL- I was one day late for the air show! I was supposed to be there but I couldn’t get the day off. They said it was awesome . My cousin has a house in ventnor by the beach. Where I happen to be again today . Her poor son broke both of his arms down here. He’s a trooper though. He loves the air show.
I did negotiate and I got one 1% higher than they were offering. They admitted when you move internally it’s much harder to negotiate than when you come from the outside. Still more than I’m making now.
For now, beaching it, then dinner, then a little more gambling.
I’m not LH’s type. He has a thing for rail thin overly tan blondes. I don’t fit the bill. Too much junk in my trunk
You forgot big boobs.
I call BS on both of you!
LH is hiding behind fake tanned fake blondes and their big fake boobs. Super G is lookin for love in all the wrong places.
You two need to admit your feelings for each other and work this $h!t out over a hot, steamy weekend in the Pokonos. . . perhaps in one of those champagne glass bathtubs .... order room service to sustain yourselves. Ya'll can thank me later ....
Super G is lookin for love in all the wrong places.
G moves way to fast for me. Deep talks and exclusivity after two dates is not my style.
You two need to admit your feelings for each other and work this $h!t out over a hot, steamy weekend in the Pokonos. . . perhaps in one of those champagne glass bathtubs .... order room service to sustain yourselves. Ya'll can thank me later ....
It's funny you should bring up the Pokonos, I was just recommending it to my boss this week. Me and EXW had a really great time their many moons ago with the champagne glass bathtub.
I’m not LH’s type. He has a thing for rail thin overly tan blondes. I don’t fit the bill. Too much junk in my trunk
You forgot big boobs.
I call BS on both of you!
LH is hiding behind fake tanned fake blondes and their big fake boobs. Super G is lookin for love in all the wrong places.
You two need to admit your feelings for each other and work this $h!t out over a hot, steamy weekend in the Pokonos. . . perhaps in one of those champagne glass bathtubs .... order room service to sustain yourselves. Ya'll can thank me later ....
I just don’t think he could handle a woman like me. Plus, cottage cheese is his favorite good and he drinks Michelob ultra.
My ex and I did those poconos places twice. They are actually a lot of fun!!!
LH, for eff's sake man the eff up!!! You guys so need a dirty weekend together!
I didn’t think it was possible for me to agree with bttrfly even more but I totally thought everything she just wrote so yeah. In LH’s defense, Mich Ultra is pretty good!
LH, for eff's sake man the eff up!!! You guys so need a dirty weekend together!
I refuse to be notch number 100 something in her headboard. lol
And I refuse to notch 1000 on yours
LH, for eff's sake man the eff up!!! You guys so need a dirty weekend together!
I refuse to be notch number 100 something in her headboard. lol
And I refuse to notch 1000 on yours
I think you both doth protest too much.
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