Previous Thread:
Single tired femaleAlso, I am currently having a bit of a scary experience with a guy from the apps. We were talking and made a date which I had to cancel. I offered a reschedule and he chose a day he was bringing his car to the dealership and said I could pick him up from the dealer and we will have a day date. I was caught off guard, said it’s a possibility.
A day later I was getting texts from a number that wasn’t saved. He was telling me it was him and he got a new number but didn’t know his own number and I could tell him what it was. Eeeeie. I sent him a screenshot that showed his number and he kept bugging out asking what his number was. It got too weird for me, I was leaving for my dads and off I went . Later he sends me a text apologizing and said he hopes our date was still on. I didn’t want to answer then and there. He continues to text and reaches out on the two apps ( we matched on both) and I decided I wasn’t going to respond, I was creeped. He sent another text and I blocked him. And then yesterday he tried to send me a facebook friend request.
This is a situation in which is women Ghost
….. and last but not least. My dad asked if he and my stepmom could stay over tonight because they have to drive to Nj to visit my stepmothers mother in the hospital and want to get 2 days in a row. Of course I did not hesitate to say YES and I also give them my bed.
Because that’s what family does !
We're all here to process through our hurt and improve ourselves. Part of that is learning how to be a better partner and how to better attract a partner. I see R2C posting the "Rules of Attraction" thread to newbies quite a bit. Learning how to dress better, get in shape, be engaging to the opposite sex...etc. is an important part of the process for many. So reading that a woman thinks it's sweet to be kissed on the forehead and storing that nugget in our left brains isn't necessarily a bad thing. There are men that genuinely want to be a good partner and are looking for ways to help connect. It doesn't mean the lesson is being used to deceive, hook up, and throw that person away.
Yep in the perfect Disney world the prince would know exactly what to say and when to say it. The princess would never be creeped out or turned off. For some reason it is encouraged to improve in every aspect unless it’s men improving their attraction skills because women feel they are being played.
So BF last night I went to an outdoor concert and I had my arm around the girl I was with and I kissed her on the forehead. She seemed to enjoy it too like G did so I am glad I received the tip that some women like it. I’m sorry if that feels icky to you. As I said before, you are a smart chick and I trust you will know if you are being gamed or not in the future.
I'm not concerned about being played.
I'm concerned that YOU, specifically, LH, are a player.
I imagine you sitting there with a notebook avidly copying down things you can use to manipulate your next date.
This is how your posts come off. Think about it. What was your motivation? To see if the kiss worked, because you need proof, not folklore?
Is that authentic?
What I'm saying here is you may think you're 100% natural, but that's not how the vast majority of your posts read.
BL the best way for a guy to have game is to be himself, faux pas and all.
I'm concerned that YOU, specifically, LH, are a player.
Spit my coffee. Before I answer what is your definition of a player?
BL the best way for a guy to have game is to be himself, faux pas and all.
What if his true self is desperate, needy and boring? What will that bring him?
Also, I am currently having a bit of a scary experience with a guy from the apps. We were talking and made a date which I had to cancel. I offered a reschedule and he chose a day he was bringing his car to the dealership and said I could pick him up from the dealer and we will have a day date. I was caught off guard, said it’s a possibility.
A day later I was getting texts from a number that wasn’t saved. He was telling me it was him and he got a new number but didn’t know his own number and I could tell him what it was. Eeeeie. I sent him a screenshot that showed his number and he kept bugging out asking what his number was. It got too weird for me, I was leaving for my dads and off I went . Later he sends me a text apologizing and said he hopes our date was still on. I didn’t want to answer then and there. He continues to text and reaches out on the two apps ( we matched on both) and I decided I wasn’t going to respond, I was creeped. He sent another text and I blocked him. And then yesterday he tried to send me a facebook friend request.
This is a situation in which is women Ghost
BF it looks like G is the real player on this forum lol.
And yeah ditch him immediately.
LH, interesting the quotes you picked and chose from my post.
I'm not letting you off the hook so easily, so I will repeat those parts here:
I imagine you sitting there with a notebook avidly copying down things you can use to manipulate your next date.
This is how your posts come off. Think about it. What was your motivation? To see if the kiss worked, because you need proof, not folklore?
Is that authentic?
What I'm saying here is you may think you're 100% natural, but that's not how the vast majority of your posts read.
In your posts you absolutely objectify women. We don't seem to be people to you. It reads like we're more of a science experiment that you're trying out various hypotheses on to see what sticks, and what gives you your desired results. If the results aren't what you desire than obviously the women are the problem and we all want high status, tall, whatever the laundry list is men and the rest of you don't stand a chance.
Keeps you in a box.
Free yourself from the box and stop objectifying us please.
LH, interesting the quotes you picked and chose from my post.
I'm not letting you off the hook so easily, so I will repeat those parts here:
I imagine you sitting there with a notebook avidly copying down things you can use to manipulate your next date.
This is how your posts come off. Think about it. What was your motivation? To see if the kiss worked, because you need proof, not folklore?
Is that authentic?
What I'm saying here is you may think you're 100% natural, but that's not how the vast majority of your posts read.
In your posts you absolutely objectify women. We don't seem to be people to you. It reads like we're more of a science experiment that you're trying out various hypotheses on to see what sticks, and what gives you your desired results. If the results aren't what you desire than obviously the women are the problem and we all want high status, tall, whatever the laundry list is men and the rest of you don't stand a chance.
Keeps you in a box.
Free yourself from the box and stop objectifying us please.
Ok BF go back and read what I wrote. The kiss on the forehead brought G joy. I wanted to bring joy to the woman I am dating. I did it and it worked she seemed happy. It's called learning from other peoples experiences. There is absolutely zero objectification of woman in that statement.
Come on BF. Stop reaching.
Let’s just say his interest level is high. And he is extremely genuine . He will be away for a few weeks and D is away. I don’t think accepting a date 3 days later is going to make or break or us.
He has been separated for a few months. They had been separated before that as well. It’s a short term marriage and no children came from it. She was a manipulative binge drinker and abusive when she drank. He was done after giving her another chance . Papers are almost signed. He closes on his new place tomorrow.( he was not living with her in the meantime )
We had a candid open talk last night . He’s not the “I’m free woohoo type” but we both agreed that he does need his time single and to take a breather from everything . We agreed to be friends that kiss, lol. I have decided I am not going to have sex with him and I told him as much and he’s completely understanding . He’s seriously kind sweet and empathetic.
We know timing timing stinks.
Anyways, for the men out there. Does he have a good career stay fit and dress nice, and drive a decent car ? Yes. Ia that attractive ? Sure. But the most attractive part of his is his genuinity, not trying to be a certain way because he thinks that’s what women wants. He comes as his self . And we can sniff out when men are trying to be what they think a woman wants to be rather than just being themselves . Vulnerability , honesty, good conversation that goes beyond the surface level. Very attractive. His love for his family is as well.
G-
Life is short. Make it count.
I am not reaching when I say you objectify women in the vast majority of your posts.
I am not reaching when I say you treat us like a science experiment, and when you don't get the desired results, your fall back position is that we all want high status guys and the 98% of you who aren't high status are then $h!t out of luck.
Go back and read your threads.
If you want to stay in the box you've put yourself in, that's your choice.
I am not reaching when I say you objectify women in the vast majority of your posts.
I would prefer you to pull example from my threads to prove your point. Until than I consider it slander.
Let’s just say his interest level is high. And he is extremely genuine . He will be away for a few weeks and D is away. I don’t think accepting a date 3 days later is going to make or break or us.
He has been separated for a few months. They had been separated before that as well. It’s a short term marriage and no children came from it. She was a manipulative binge drinker and abusive when she drank. He was done after giving her another chance . Papers are almost signed. He closes on his new place tomorrow.( he was not living with her in the meantime )
We had a candid open talk last night . He’s not the “I’m free woohoo type” but we both agreed that he does need his time single and to take a breather from everything . We agreed to be friends that kiss, lol. I have decided I am not going to have sex with him and I told him as much and he’s completely understanding . He’s seriously kind sweet and empathetic.
We know timing timing stinks.
Anyways, for the men out there. Does he have a good career stay fit and dress nice, and drive a decent car ? Yes. Ia that attractive ? Sure. But the most attractive part of his is his genuinity, not trying to be a certain way because he thinks that’s what women wants. He comes as his self . And we can sniff out when men are trying to be what they think a woman wants to be rather than just being themselves . Vulnerability , honesty, good conversation that goes beyond the surface level. Very attractive. His love for his family is as well.
I truly and honestly can't believe that you wrote this after one date and a phone call. I am flabbergasted. If I had a nickel............... Go easy on her MLCH.
I am not reaching when I say you objectify women in the vast majority of your posts.
I would prefer you to pull example from my threads to prove your point. Until than I consider it slander.
what so I have to go pull "evidence" otherwise I'm blowing smoke out of my @$$? Tell you what, in the interest of efficiency I'll just wait til your next post and point it out to you in real time.
I am not reaching when I say you objectify women in the vast majority of your posts.
I would prefer you to pull example from my threads to prove your point. Until than I consider it slander.
what so I have to go pull "evidence" otherwise I'm blowing smoke out of my @$$? Tell you what, in the interest of efficiency I'll just wait til your next post and point it out to you in real time.
BF its cool. You know I need evidence or I can't take anyone seriously.
I am not reaching when I say you objectify women in the vast majority of your posts.
I would prefer you to pull example from my threads to prove your point. Until than I consider it slander.
what so I have to go pull "evidence" otherwise I'm blowing smoke out of my @$$? Tell you what, in the interest of efficiency I'll just wait til your next post and point it out to you in real time.
BF its cool. You know I need evidence or I can't take anyone seriously.
A REAL woman is giving you a REAL POV - don't blow it off.
Like J3B said if it stings - better look at it.
Cadet I am not blowing it off I take her accusations very seriously.
Cadet I am not blowing it off I take her accusations very seriously.
Do you trust her opinion ?
Do you trust what anyone else reads in your words ???
Maybe you could , since you seem to be taking these allegations seriously, trust a perspective that may not fit with your current one, and read back through some of these threads and try to see it from a different perspective...
"Work on yourself" shouldn't involve someone else doing it for you....You gain nothing from having others do that for you....
You can give a man a fish and he eats for a day....or teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime....
Like an upside frog in the water.....
I refuse to go back
I know my truth inside and out
There are more than two ways to skin a cat....
The best predictor of future behavior, is past behavior.
If we don't learn from the past, then we are doomed....
And once again....
When we lie to ourselves, we have failed..
When we believe those lies, we are f%$&ed...
One thing that I learned from him that was the most important...
Was that he was smart enough to know that he wasn't smart enough...
Like an upside frog in the water.....
I refuse to go back
I know my truth inside and out
There are more than two ways to skin a cat....
But hey, I like your version better.
I'll watch for my name in the Notification thread.... : )
LOL. Mach it's all good. I can't change how BF feels about me. I understand men trying to approve attraction comes off as "Gamey". Again, I don't understand why that is so taboo to improve? But like a humpback camel smoking a cigarette it is what it is.
When G-money isn't mad at me she will vouge for me that I am not a player.
Like an upside frog in the water.....
I refuse to go back
I know my truth inside and out
There are more than two ways to skin a cat....
this is you keeping yourself in your safe little box, LH. I want better than that for you.
I want better than that for you.
I want better for me too.
No more observing nice gestures that make people happy and repeating the behavior.
Scout's honor.
Ginger1,
He has been separated for a few months.
That doesn't seem like very long.
It’s a short term marriage and no children came from it.
Papers are almost signed. He closes on his new place tomorrow.( he was not living with her in the meantime )
That's maybe better.
She was a manipulative binge drinker and abusive when she drank.
Do you know this for sure, or that his side of the story? I know some of what ExW told her family and friends about me, and there were plenty of lies, falsehoods, and exaggerations to justify her actions.
We had a candid open talk last night . He’s not the “I’m free woohoo type” but we both agreed that he does need his time single and to take a breather from everything . We agreed to be friends that kiss, lol. I have decided I am not going to have sex with him and I told him as much and he’s completely understanding . He’s seriously kind sweet and empathetic.
We know timing timing stinks.
Good conversation, but kissing friends usually turns into more pretty quickly as adults.
Anyways, for the men out there. Does he have a good career stay fit and dress nice, and drive a decent car ? Yes. Ia that attractive ? Sure. But the most attractive part of his is his genuinity, not trying to be a certain way because he thinks that’s what women wants. He comes as his self . And we can sniff out when men are trying to be what they think a woman wants to be rather than just being themselves . Vulnerability , honesty, good conversation that goes beyond the surface level. Very attractive. His love for his family is as well.
Good feedback. Thanks for sharing. I think sometimes the career/fitness/style/car come across a lot more quickly than some of the others, but good to hear a woman's perspective on the subject.
I decided I wasn’t going to respond, I was creeped. He sent another text and I blocked him. And then yesterday he tried to send me a facebook friend request.
And yeah ditch him immediately.
^Agreed. That is creepy. No response and block him completely.
Ginger1,
He has been separated for a few months.
That doesn't seem like very long.
Well… BECAUSE ITS NOT!!!!!!! Eight weeks? He has no business even dating. That’s at least what the old DB board would have told him. And ginger's rule was not to date anyone separated at all and date those only Dd for at least a year. I’m positive that was posted multiple times.
But this is better than no date at all? Is that what it is? Because clearly you’ve been on many more dates this year than I have - or at least it seems like it. And I guess if it’s just a date, something to do and that’s it, well no big deal. But we all know it’s more than that. A casual date is not what you claim to want - but it is what you’ll accept. Clearly multi hour phone calls is not casual. I think most of us know what a newly separated, not even filed (I think that’s the case) not divorced male is looking for. I mean Ray Charles can see this one.
Guys who show you some attention are your Kryptonite. You deserve better.
As for the scammer guy. Women have ghosted for far, far, far less. For some it’s standard operating procedure in place of just being honest and forthcoming. That’s not you. But in this case don’t just ghost - stop, block and RUN!!!
Please do not accept any less than you deserve.
I mean Ray Charles can see this one.
Am I the only one who finds this line offensive?
Can’t really reply right now, but I will say.
Male attention is NOT my kryptonite. I’ve gotten plenty of unwanted male attention.
What IS my kryptonite is the ease of ability to talk and connect. I could literally carry a conversation with anyone. Someone with depth, vulnerability, mutual views and likes where we could literally talk forever ? My kryptonite for sure.
His divorce is indeed filed. I would only know if his reasons were true if I spoke to her. But who really gets to hear the other side.
Im just enjoying my time. That is all. Im having dinner tomorrow night. No more, no less
I am doing this out of my love for you.
Remember the Texan:
As far as “rebound guy” I don’t think that is so accurate. 4 months isn’t 4 weeks. So far we are having a blast getting to know each other . We have long phone calls nearly every night, and he’s coming over tomorrow night, he’s going to cook me dinner and we are going to watch a movie. We are going to a concert together next Friday.
He is absolutely not avoidant. He has no problem talking about what he wants, expressing his feelings, etc. he’s employed, self sufficient, can go with the flow and deal well with change. We are on the same page about a lot of stuff and we just really have enjoyed our time together so far.
Something just feels…. Right. And comfortable and good.
It did. At first. And then it wasn’t. And I wasn’t attached and I ended it.
It may very well happen the exact same way again. Who knows? It can happen that was with anyone.
I enjoy talking to him and having having someone to dine out with. I don’t think that’s bad.
It did. At first. And then it wasn’t. And I wasn’t attached and I ended it.
It may very well happen the exact same way again. Who knows? It can happen that was with anyone.
I enjoy talking to him and having having someone to dine out with. I don’t think that’s bad.
It's only bad when you try to label it and add expectations to it....
Then you're F%^&ed......literally
Well I guess statistically speaking you are do for one to work out lol.
Just don’t tell us you’re boyfriend and girlfriend after Thursday.
Man, this went from 0-60 in 3 seconds flat. From friends and leisurely seeing where it goes to ILU’s to anxiety.
I remember getting the above--I was going "0-60 in 3 seconds" when I had sex with K three weeks into dating and agreed to exclusivity four weeks into dating. To be clear, I hadn't said "ILU" or "GF/BF" yet. Others aren't in your shoes. If you're being open with these guys, and you're having a good time 4 out of 5 days, who cares what others think?
I've stopped writing about my dating adventures here but I had great sex Monday, had a great hike with her today, and am going on a day trip with her this weekend. I'm getting to know somebody and having fun. Enjoy your journey. Adjust if you often come home crying (as you had previously) or can't enjoy a night alone without chatting with guys.
And traveler provides the biggest eye opener yet.
Update :
Date 2: I am having his baby and we are eloping as soon as he is divorced.
Update :
Date 2: I am having his baby and we are eloping as soon as he is divorced.
Thank you for the best belly laugh of the day as I head for bed. Well played!!!
Update :
Date 2: I am having his baby and we are eloping as soon as he is divorced.
If it’s a boy name him LH19.
Update :
Date 2: I am having his baby and we are eloping as soon as he is divorced.
If it’s a boy name him LH19.
LOL!
Update :
Date 2: I am having his baby and we are eloping as soon as he is divorced.
If it’s a boy name him LH19.
Maybe I’ll just name him chad
Update :
Date 2: I am having his baby and we are eloping as soon as he is divorced.
If it’s a boy name him LH19.
That reminds me of my old neighbor...
He went to the auction and bought a calf to raise...
Named him "T-bone"....
That way he would never forget why he bought him....
Update :
Date 2: I am having his baby and we are eloping as soon as he is divorced.
If it’s a boy name him LH19.
Maybe I’ll just name him chad
Meh. Same thing lol.
So I get because you have anxious attachment issues like CW you are always going to go from 0-60 in seconds if the man is leading you there. I have accepted it. Once concerns me is you believe everything you hear and see right out of the gate.
Let’s just say his interest level is high. And he is extremely genuine .
High interest or needy? How could you possibly know he is genuine after one meetup?
He will be away for a few weeks and D is away. I don’t think accepting a date 3 days later is going to make or break or us.
I actually agree. BUT (Mach) if he was genuine he would certainly wait.
He has been separated for a few months. They had been separated before that as well.
So if he was into self improvement he would have looked at dating while separated and would have learned that it probably isn't a good idea. I believe Wolfman dated while separated.
It’s a short term marriage and no children came from it. She was a manipulative binge drinker and abusive when she drank. He was done after giving her another chance .
Possible.
Papers are almost signed. He closes on his new place tomorrow.( he was not living with her in the meantime )
Papers almost signed is good. I believe that's what S was selling Andy P too.
We had a candid open talk last night.
Sure why not after a meetup lay the cards on the table?
He’s not the “I’m free woohoo type”
So remind me again how you know he is not the woohoo type?
but we both agreed that he does need his time single and to take a breather from everything .
Well as long as you both agreed.
We agreed to be friends that kiss, lol.
So is that FTK?
I have decided I am not going to have sex with him and I told him as much and he’s completely understanding .
I would totally test you on that statement to see if you were a woman of your word.
He’s seriously kind sweet and empathetic.
Awwww. Just like the Texan.
We know timing timing stinks.
Well that's why you don't go on dating apps when your married. It's bad timing.
Anyways, for the men out there. Does he have a good career stay fit and dress nice, and drive a decent car ? Yes. Ia that attractive ?
Oh thanks for letting us know a High Status male is attractive. We haven't heard that here.
Sure. But the most attractive part of his is his genuinity, not trying to be a certain way because he thinks that’s what women wants. He comes as his self .
You have no fuching idea who this guy is other than he is on dating apps while stilled married.
And we can sniff out when men are trying to be what they think a woman wants to be rather than just being themselves .
Like you sniffed out the Texan.
Vulnerability , honesty, good conversation that goes beyond the surface level. Very attractive.
Yes I agree. Just not on the phone call after a meetup.
His love for his family is as well.
How could you possible know he loves his family??????????
Look G the bottom line is like you said it will either work or it won't. But if it goes south and you can't come here complaining about your bad luck with men because you ignore YOUR own rules.
Having said all that I really hope it works out because he is a handsome man.
Jesus.
When I say something about a guy, it’s my current impression. I am not an idiot or new at this. I won’t know really who he is until we have been hanging out for a while. When I make a statement about his personality, its a real time observation. I’m still observing continually. Should I really always just date someone thinking they are a piece of poop? No. I give the benefit of the doubt and go from there.
I don’t know why accepting a second date in the same week is going 0-60? Because I didn’t turn him down when I was free and my daughter was away it’s 0-60? Schedules lined up which is never ever easy for me.
Vulnerability : talking about experiences that has shaped him.
How do I know he loves his family. He talks about them very positively, is close with his siblings and his parents. That again is the impression I get. I guess I don’t “know” but then again, I have no reason to not to think he doesn’t .
Isn’t this the stuff you assess for while dating? You talk, get to know eachother and then observe.
Guess what. Anytime I have followed my “rules” it has worked out well either.
Like dating anyone , it will either turn out well, or it won’t . It is what it is . For now, I enjoy spending time with him, he enjoys spending time with me. How do I know his interest is high? I mean, again, I’m not an idiot. He communicates. He asks me out, he plans dates, he thinks I’m beautiful. That’s how you guess someone’s interest level. How do you know the interest level of the woman you are dating LH? I imagine the same way.
And btw, a guy who is attractive , has decent job and car makes them “high status? “ I think it just makes them regular dudes.
And btw, a guy who is attractive , has decent job and car makes them “high status? “ I think it just makes them regular dudes.
Well your story changed from above from great career to decent job so that does just make him a regular dude. That means women will swipe right on him 4% of the time.
Fair enough. The he's not a woohoo guy got to me big time.
I am pulling for you. I am tired of hearing "you were right LH". lol
Jesus.
When I say something about a guy, it’s my current impression. I am not an idiot or new at this. I won’t know really who he is until we have been hanging out for a while. When I make a statement about his personality, its a real time observation. I’m still observing continually. Should I really always just date someone thinking they are a piece of poop? No. I give the benefit of the doubt and go from there.
I don’t know why accepting a second date in the same week is going 0-60? Because I didn’t turn him down when I was free and my daughter was away it’s 0-60? Schedules lined up which is never ever easy for me.
Vulnerability : talking about experiences that has shaped him.
How do I know he loves his family. He talks about them very positively, is close with his siblings and his parents. That again is the impression I get. I guess I don’t “know” but then again, I have no reason to not to think he doesn’t .
Isn’t this the stuff you assess for while dating? You talk, get to know eachother and then observe.
Guess what. Anytime I have followed my “rules” it has worked out well either.
Like dating anyone , it will either turn out well, or it won’t . It is what it is . For now, I enjoy spending time with him, he enjoys spending time with me. How do I know his interest is high? I mean, again, I’m not an idiot. He communicates. He asks me out, he plans dates, he thinks I’m beautiful. That’s how you guess someone’s interest level. How do you know the interest level of the woman you are dating LH? I imagine the same way.
And btw, a guy who is attractive , has decent job and car makes them “high status? “ I think it just makes them regular dudes.
I'm all fine with your explanations here but I have a question and hoping you can answer them honestly.
Why are you putting time/effort into someone who believes he needs to be single (which you agree) when you heart wants an honest committed relationship? IF timing is off - why do you bother?
Where you put your effort is where you will see the results and I don't mean dating more. I mean have your wants and needs and if someone has even the smallest thing off.. its "no thanks".
The more time you spend having fun with the wrong guy... the more time you are missing out with the right one.
I know you are frustrated with the dating experience and being single... but G... you are wasting your time with this one. He's just not ready... and you have told us time and again.. you ARE ready for more.
Oh and I thought this was creepy when men said this in the beginning? Or is that only when you don't like the man?
Oh and I thought this was creepy when men said this in the beginning? Or is that only when you don't like the man?
I never said that. I think you are taking what I have said out of context.
There is a creepy way of saying and a respectful way of saying
V- I don’t feel as if I am wasting time because I am enjoying myself. And honestly, he is someone I would be friends with . I’m not committing myself to anything or putting too my effort or heart into it.
As far as “need to be single” It’s not so much his need to be single . It’s the need to settle into his new place on his own and deal with the divorce.
I swear we are just 2 people right now having lots of fun hanging out.
There is a creepy way of saying and a respectful way of saying
Examples appreciated.
There is a creepy way of saying and a respectful way of saying
Examples appreciated.
Kind of hard to do with just words and no body language and intonation. There is also timing and the context when now and where it comes up.
You should know this
There is a creepy way of saying and a respectful way of saying he thinks I’m beautiful
I swear, this is what men in this era have to deal with. It’s even worse in an employed situation. You’re just an idiot male to even hint a co-worker looks nice today. How sad. But the truth is, one woman’s respectful is the next woman’s creepy. It is totally 100% subjective to the two women. But honestly as a guy who has to face this and would like to tell a woman, “wow, you look beautiful,” please explain the difference. How is one creepy and the next not?
I swear we are just 2 people right now having lots of fun hanging out.
And really, there is nothing wrong with that. I think what many of us are seeing and trying to get you to see is the drastic differences between what you say you want and what you say you will and will not do and what you say are dealbreakers or rules… when compared to your actions with the same. You even go as far as to say the very same actions when done by someone else are concerning, and a problem or just flat out wrong, but when you do them it’s somehow different and not a problem.
We are just trying to get you to see what we all see. It’s the wild inconsistency that is in question. HHH is wrong when LH does it and you want no part of it, until you do it. You’ve said over and over this is NOT what you want yet now you defend it and say it is.
What do you really deep down honestly want? I thought from all I’ve read from you that it is one long term committed man with a clear future that puts in the effort - not someone who just wants to HHH. This guy may be nice, may be fun but can only offer HHH.
Constancy. It’s about the lack of consistency. At least that’s what I see.
I agree with G about there being a creepy way to say someone is beautiful and a respectful way and it’s hard to explain the difference because it’s about context, at least in my opinion. If some drunk dude says it to me in a bar, I’m going to assume he’s saying it in jest as part of some awful joke with his buddies or he’s desperate to get something and thinks that will work. If someone is having a real, genuine conversation with me and says it, it’s not creepy at all. Context is key, at least for me.
Don- there has never been a man who has said “you look nice today” and I thought it was creepy. No one has ever said “you are beautiful” and I found it creepy. “You are totally hot” or “super sexy “ when we have not connected on that level is creepy. I hope that explains it.
What I want right now is to enjoy time with someone. I’m not staring ahead at the future. So far he has shown me interest, consistency, ability to plan dates , etc. and it’s funny how the double standard is when a guy does do that he is “desperate and needy” and when they don’t do that they are “emotionally unavailable”
I think it is also assumed that men do the level of research on dating and attraction you do. But most do not. Sometimes they just do whatever is feeling right without paying attention to rule and time tables . Sometimes it backfires, sometimes it works.
He asked me out for brunch Sunday. I accepted. He’s not making or breaking anything by asking and I’m not making or breaking anything for accepting. This doesn’t make either of us desperate. We are just 2 people who enjoy each others company ALOT me don’t feel the need to abide some rules. We like to spend time together.
And he’s, I have followed the “rules” before and the outcome was never any better .
He likes me, I like him. We spend time together . If it was a girlfriend I would do the same. We don’t have a “once a week” rule.
I am in this moment very happy with how things are going.
He asked me out for brunch Sunday. I accepted.
I thought he was leaving for 2 weeks which is why you had to accept the Thursday date, 4 days after the first. THIS is what I mean by inconsistency. One thing is said while another is done. 3 dates in 8 days. Okay…
There is NOTHING wrong with what you are doing. It’s just very inconsistent and in some ways opposite of what you’ve claimed to want and clearly opposite of the advice and comments you’ve given to others. That’s all I’m saying. It’s not wrong but it is wildly inconsistent.
He’s leaving Tuesday. We took the next available date yesterday when we were planning. And his Sunday morning hockey practice got cancelled .
That’s all. It’s pretty consistent
What I want right now is to enjoy time with someone. I’m not staring ahead at the future. So far he has shown me interest, consistency, ability to plan dates , etc. and it’s funny how the double standard is when a guy does do that he is “desperate and needy” and when they don’t do that they are “emotionally unavailable”
I just said there is a fine line between very interested and desperate and needy. Just like a fine line between who can say "you look beautiful".
I think it is also assumed that men do the level of research on dating and attraction you do. But most do not. Sometimes they just do whatever is feeling right without paying attention to rule and time tables . Sometimes it backfires, sometimes it works.
I'd say it backfires more often. If this was CW you would be telling him the same thing.
We are just 2 people who enjoy each others company ALOT me don’t feel the need to abide some rules. We like to spend time together.
This is making me feel uncomfortable.
He likes me, I like him. We spend time together . If it was a girlfriend I would do the same. We don’t have a “once a week” rule.
What's the rush? Have you ever heard less is more? It's like when a stripper takes it all off in the first 15 seconds of the song.
I am in this moment very happy with how things are going.
Fingers crossed
I guess I have to ask since you are so gaga. Did you sleep with him?
I like that he’s planning dates ahead. I’m just wondering how the “we’re just friends who kiss” conversation came about? 1) Was that him trying to push you away? Or 2) you trying to jump into the breach and reassure him that you could be that casual?
If it’s the first - we’ll, I’d say his actions are belying his words, and if you let him make all the moves and are careful to not always be available, he might come around sooner than you think. (On the other hand, Mr Big Lots, who was a classic Love Avoidant, pursued me with frequent dates in the first couple weeks before becoming more unavailable. )
If it’s the second - don’t sell yourself short and don’t be in a hurry convince a guy you’re “okay” with something that’s less than what you want.
Guess what. Anytime I have followed my “rules” it has worked out well either.
DB 101 do something different.
I like the idea and I think you will be fine no matter what.
(((HUGS)))) from me and my now non-hero nurse.(ie retired)
I’m just wondering how the “we’re just friends who kiss” conversation came about?
I think it went something like this:
Dude: Can we be BF and GF?
G: No it's been only one date and a call and you are married
Dude: Well will you sleep with me?
G: No it's been only one date and a call and you are married
Dude: Well what can we be?
G: I know "Just kissing friends"
Dude: YAY!
LOL!
I’m just wondering how the “we’re just friends who kiss” conversation came about?
I think it went something like this:
Dude: Can we be BF and GF?
G: No it's been only one date and a call and you are married
Dude: Well will you sleep with me?
G: No it's been only one date and a call and you are married
Dude: Well what can we be?
G: I know "Just kissing friends"
Dude: YAY!
LOL!
This is actually quite amusing . It went down not even close to that.
and no, I did not have sex with him
KML- he’s doesn’t come across as avoidant at all. And truth be told, after this week neither os us will be too available. If I’m not available I won’t make myself available. If I am available, I accept his invitations.
He’s a good dated so far
KML- he’s doesn’t come across as avoidant at all.
They often don’t in the very beginning. As my BFF once said “Love Avoidants need love too”, and if they didn’t put out SOME effort in the beginning they would just be completely celibate.
I’m glad he isn’t giving off a “Love Avoidant vibe”, but it’s pretty early to tell, so keep your antennae up.
I wonder if his wife is working to bust this divorce?
Gosh, imagine her standing, praying her little heart out for some miracle. I would think we all were there at one point.
I suspect for a lot of us, our other half’s affair started out with a nice “innocent” little tryst, Sunday brunch, friends that kiss.
Dating a married person makes you the affair partner.
You control you. Might want to check your compass.
I don’t agree D. Someone who is far along in the divorce process as he is, I don’t consider to be “cheating” on their spouse. If what he says is true (and we have no reason to believe it isn’t) then it’s all over but settling the final business part.
It’s a risk for G because there’s always a possibility if reconciliation (which doesn’t completely go away after a completed divorce), but there’s no evidence in this story that G would be culpable in any way in this divorce.
It’s an affair when you date someone who is in a marriage, not someone who has left the marriage and is far into the divorce process once they meet. Heck, my ex and I were only halfway through the 18 month process of our divorce when he met his current wife, but I never considered her an OW and Bear her no I’ll will. She wasn’t involved in our divorce and neither is G involved in this guys divorce.
^^^ thank you KML.
My compass has been nothing but on track. They have been living separately , he has his own place. And she’s dating and was cheating.
I would be an affair partner if they were still together, no divorce was filed, and we were sneaking around and she had no clue .
My morals are intact, thank you.
And god forbid he wasn’t telling the truth ? I would be gone so fast.
I love an honest adulthood and I have no qualms about that .
I will add. Over the years I have gotten interest from married men. That I knew . And was it tempting ? Yeah. Generally “high value men” as LH would like to say. I never gave in.
Don’t project, Dnj. You know I’m not an affair partner. You must know the difference .
Did that make Andrew the affair partner twice over ?
V- I don’t feel as if I am wasting time because I am enjoying myself. And honestly, he is someone I would be friends with . I’m not committing myself to anything or putting too my effort or heart into it.
As far as “need to be single” It’s not so much his need to be single . It’s the need to settle into his new place on his own and deal with the divorce.
I swear we are just 2 people right now having lots of fun hanging out.
hmm.. I think everyone should be single for just a little bit in order to figure out what the h3ll happened. But that's just my humble opinion... as well as any good therapist's..lol
Just out of curiosity... when he talks about his wife and their relationship.. how is he? I realize that she has a problem but does he ever say what part he played? You know more than most how this kind of disease can affect a whole family. How does he speak of her currently?
D I hear what you are saying because this is a divorce busting site it’s a sensitive issue to some people. It’s well documented how I have issues with the WS running around here bragging about being a WS. I tease Ginger a lot about her dating choices but I would never question her moral compass. She’s a great person who unfortunately has to touch the hot stove more than the usual person before realizing it’s hot.
The story remains to be told but we typically see how it ends for the married online daters.
Valeska-
The W's big probalem was that when she did drink, she would drink ALOT, become verbally abusive, and if they were in a social situation, or in public she would purposely start fights with strangers to see if he would "protect" her. The final straw was when she spewed a racial slur at someone in out in public.
And the extra reason why this is so awful? When he was 24 he was at a bar with his then girlfriend. Some guy called his gf a "f'in B" and wanted to go outside and fight him. They were leaving for vacation the next day, he wasn't about to get arrested, os he told him he wasn't going outside and watch what he says to his GF. Well, the guy took a heavy beer mug, smashed the side of his twice, he woke up 2 days later after a craniotomy, was in the hospital almost 2 months and had to go throughs some serious rehab. and here is his wife trying to instigate fights? Pretty messed up.
What would he do differently? He said he ignored so many red flags. He had long term relationship that had ended (not right before they met) and he felt his marital clock ticking I guess, and he said he really would have paid attention the red flags. And he can say now he believes in marriage and would absolutely do it again.
LH, I think there are married men online and there are seperated men on line with a divorce filed.
ANd yeah, I get reased alot about my dating choies. Tell me, what is the perfect scenario in which I wouldn't get teased? What is the textbook fairytale where it sounds perfectly ideal? I am curious. I am pretty sureeven in the ost ideal situation, I would have made a date too early or too late, they wouldn't be divorced long enough or too long, they would live with their parents, or be love avoidant or too needy. Nothing would ever be a perfectly perfect ideal situation.
But I am pretty sure after 40, divorces, with kids, with lives lived, baggage etc. there is no perfect dating situation where everything is done ideally and I wouldn't get teased.
Not many have been in my sitch, divorced young never remarried, trying to date while raising a kid practically by herself. I have never had a real partner in life. So maybe i do do everything perfectly, maybe sometimes they simply don't work out, or maybe they backfire because of something I did or didn't do. Maybe i am just awful at dating. But you know what? I am one of the sitches that is different on these boards. And while I may not be the perfect dater, I have overcome and conquered so much on my own, I am going to have an oune of trust in myself that I am not messing everything up royally over here
I totally get his situation is different than a married man online deceiving women.
My big question is why can’t he wait? Is he a player? Is he afraid to be alone?
I think ideally your soft rule is good. Divorced 2 years. 1 minimum.
Having said all that you don’t have much to lose other than a LH “ told you so” and heaven knows you’ve received and survived many of those lol.
Also as 99% of us know divorce is a two way street. What was dirty on his side? Has he addressed it? I assume with all these intimate amazing talks you have covered this topic.
Here we go again. Someone doesn't always have something toxic or dirty on their side of the street, ya know. I have somthing on my side of the street. I am not going to say it was "dirty". I got into a marriage I should not have by any means and i paid the price knowing the person he was. That's my dirty side. I know i became passive agressive and defensive because i knew what was going ot be shot at me in any given situation. And very much the same thing happened to him. He ignored the red flags, and he became defensive in certain situations before they even happened because he knew what was coming.
We both had short term marriages, we didnt get a chance to dirty our side of the street too heavily. We didn;t have our years and years of resentment to build up and blow up a marriage. We married people we knew we shouldnt.
Tell me, what is the perfect scenario in which I wouldn't get teased? What is the textbook fairytale where it sounds perfectly ideal? I am curious.
Date BL….
In all serious G, if the only risk to dating mishaps is some disappointment that you can handle, then fire away.
Here we go again. Someone doesn't always have something toxic or dirty on their side of the street, ya know. I have somthing on my side of the street. I am not going to say it was "dirty". I got into a marriage I should not have by any means and i paid the price knowing the person he was. That's my dirty side. I know i became passive agressive and defensive because i knew what was going ot be shot at me in any given situation. And very much the same thing happened to him. He ignored the red flags, and he became defensive in certain situations before they even happened because he knew what was coming.
We both had short term marriages, we didnt get a chance to dirty our side of the street too heavily. We didn;t have our years and years of resentment to build up and blow up a marriage. We married people we knew we shouldnt.
Wow! This from the person that is so quick to point out the LBH is not innocent. You are in deeper than I thought. I’m just going to buy my popcorn and sit back and watch closely.
And to anwer your BIG question, I think he is like most guys, wondering what is out there Wanting to meet new people in a forray into the new single world. Curiosity. Do women still desire me? Is it the best move? Nope. I told him as much when we first started talking. I think majority if separated people do it. It is of course not the best move. Actually the sepration wasn't on the proofile. I told him he should be honest about it and he actually redid his profile with my help. He admitted he is both scared and excited to be truly on his own. He does come from 2 married parents who have been through alot, hes the older with a married brother and sister. ANd I imagine part of him feels like a failure.
I think he is really going to like this stage of life. But i think its new and scary as well as it was for all of us.
I think we need to remeber like 98% of the people don't do what we do after being on here. IRL, I really dont know many divorced people who do. My friend at work started dating a few months after her divorce. SHe is a very independent woman with 2 daughters and a mess of an ex husband. SO far she has had a year long relationship, and she is in a year and a half one now. It does work.ANd she never got the kids involved until a year, and they barely are now. She does well.
Another coworker married another coworker while she was in the process of her divorce. They now have a kid together and have been married 10 years. ANd a sickengly cute couple. I'm friends with them both.
Is it ideal? No. Should we all wait the two years? Yeah. Mark was 2 years out, still scarred. Couldnt even coparent or talk to his ex. He was very avoidant. Still d pserate to be his sons favorite person in the world.
Anyways, we are just hanging out!!! I'm really not having his baby and eloping. It was a joke
Here we go again. Someone doesn't always have something toxic or dirty on their side of the street, ya know. I have somthing on my side of the street. I am not going to say it was "dirty". I got into a marriage I should not have by any means and i paid the price knowing the person he was. That's my dirty side. I know i became passive agressive and defensive because i knew what was going ot be shot at me in any given situation. And very much the same thing happened to him. He ignored the red flags, and he became defensive in certain situations before they even happened because he knew what was coming.
We both had short term marriages, we didnt get a chance to dirty our side of the street too heavily. We didn;t have our years and years of resentment to build up and blow up a marriage. We married people we knew we shouldnt.
Wow! This from the person that is so quick to point out the LBH is not innocent. You are in deeper than I thought. I’m just going to buy my popcorn and sit back and watch closely.
What the heck? Often times both parties are guilty of something. I didn't call either of us innocent. you love to twist stuff. He wasn't innocent. I wasn't innnocent. The ones who claim they were nothing but loving devoted spouses are the ones blowing smoke up their own arses.
Did that make Andrew the affair partner twice over ?
That certainly was the consensus here. There was even an active campaign to have me banned from the forum.
And this was with women who were assuring me that they were d.o.n.e. and had been living apart for multiple years. All verified by the fact that their families were very supportive me me dating them. Certainly no lurking in the shrubberies.
On the other hand multiple others here have also started relationships with people who weren't divorced and nobody cared.
Sigh.
The ones who claim they were nothing but loving devoted spouses are the ones blowing smoke up their own arses.
I beg to differ. There are plenty of loving, devoted spouses married to people with pathological issues.
Don’t get me wrong, in the process of DBing, I went over myself with a fine tooth comb, took a ruthlessly honest self-inventory and improved anything I could. But none of those things had anything at all to do with my H’s infidelities and ultimate departure. Those were completely about him, as proven by his actions unrelated to me after the divorce.
And if I have any doubts about myself as a partner, all I have to do is look at my other relationships. Virtually every man I’ve ever dated, except for my exH, thinks I’m grand. Regardless of whether I broke up with them or they broke up with me, we remain friends and they say the nicest things about me.
(And why, you might ask, aren’t I married to one of those men? Not every relationship is destined to last. Some loved other women more, like the guy whose old high school girlfriend showed up. In some cases either I or they were not in the right place in life to be in a long term relationship. In some cases our differences were just too great - the rocker and the med student were just on different trajectories at the time. )
So if I’m such a kind, loving, smart and sexy partner that all my old boyfriends still think I’m a “ray of sunshine and always was”, as one tells me - how am I responsible for my narcissistic ex’s dark hole that he can never fill ? I think the fact that we were together for 26 years is a testament to what a good partner I was. I doubt he could have lasted that long with someone less devoted (and oblivious to his cheating ).
Some spouses can’t be made happy no matter how hard we try or how good a spouse we are. Some of them can’t stick around when illness or issues with children arise. Some just panic when they turn 50 and realize they’re not immortal.
@Andrew - Props on being strong enough to do what you believed right despite an "angry mob" attacking you. We should strive to always do what we believe best honors our commitments to our loved ones, ourselves, and our friends.
Did that make Andrew the affair partner twice over ?
That certainly was the consensus here. There was even an active campaign to have me banned from the forum.
Sigh.
Andrew,
I have not followed your sitch regularly so I am not familiar with the details, but I am sorry this happened to you. No one should be judging another person based on their personal morals. Morals are personal and vary from person to person. As long as there is nothing illegal being done, a relationship between two consenting adults is their decision. People can give advice based on what they think could go wrong or things that are being overlooked in the fog of limerence, but there should be no backlash especially in a support forum such as this one. Sorry this happened to you!
In the specific case of G's current sitch, I don't think there is anything wrong with what she is doing here. The confusion was because she had given the impression that she was looking for something specific from a relationship. Hence many (perhaps not all) posters were looking out for her and cautioning against repeating previous mistakes. But it is possible her relationship goals have changed or that she has grown over time to handle things better so this time will be different. Perhaps, she is making a mistake again and will continue to learn. Whatever the case, I don't feel implying she is the OW in the relationship is productive. Yes, I understand we have a lot of LBS in this forum and they are sensitive to this, but that is something they need to work on. Perhaps they can mute this thread and not see what G is doing. It is not G's responsibility to live up to other people's moral standards.
What would he do differently? He said he ignored so many red flags. He had long term relationship that had ended (not right before they met) and he felt his marital clock ticking I guess
You guess or he told you?
And he can say now he believes in marriage and would absolutely do it again.
When did he stop believing in marriage? Did he not believe in marriage when he got married previously? If his wife was as bad as you write, I doubt a divorce from such a person after a short lived marriage would destroy someone's faith in the institution of marriage itself. So, what made him lose faith in marriage? And what life changing experience did he have that he believes in marriage now?
What would he do differently? He said he ignored so many red flags. He had long term relationship that had ended (not right before they met) and he felt his marital clock ticking I guess, and he said he really would have paid attention the red flags. And he can say now he believes in marriage and would absolutely do it again.
Hmm... seems to me based on HIS behavior... he can't be single. It also looks like he's doing it again. Can you see the pattern?
That doesn't mean to not have fun... it means to guard your heart appropriately. There is a reason why people jump from person to person. Keep an eye out for it.
We both had short term marriages, we didnt get a chance to dirty our side of the street too heavily. We didn;t have our years and years of resentment to build up and blow up a marriage. We married people we knew we shouldnt.
I was married to my xw for 3 years.. which would be considered a short marriage but trust me... I dirtied my side plenty.
I think people get very confused with "keeping our side of the street clean" and "red flags". For me.. my side of the street was dirty not necessarily because of what I was doing to my XW... but because of what I was doing to MYSELF. How I was neglecting my own needs at the expense of hers (which was my choice not hers). How I stuffed my feelings down (again my choice not hers). My choices were affecting me SO much there is no way in h3ll they weren't affecting her too. Did it make her decisions okay... certainly not... but just like me... she was doing the best she could with the tools she had at that time.
Keeping your side of the street clean is a constant in life.. for every relationship.. not just romantic.
It's a chore that will always require maintenance.
Same thing with red flags. The struggle isn't in seeing them in other people.. but more so in seeing them in ourselves and giving ourselves boundaries to protect our hearts.
I asked the question to see if he was able to see the part he played. Saying he had the "marriage clock" is hardly an answer... but I accept it is his truth.... not something I would chase after.. but I'm an odd bird for sure.
You think you are very rare on this board... but we all are...in our own way. There aren't many lesbians marriages failing apart on this board (thank god). For me - Reading LH's thread on OLD and the primal nature of men and woman is like reading the funnies over my morning cup of coffee.
Good Luck G... I'm always rooting for ya girl.
Whatever the case, I don't feel implying she is the OW in the relationship is productive. Yes, I understand we have a lot of LBS in this forum and they are sensitive to this, but that is something they need to work on. It is not G's responsibility to live up to other people's moral standards.
^^^
Did that make Andrew the affair partner twice over ?
That certainly was the consensus here. There was even an active campaign to have me banned from the forum.
Huh????? WHAT??????????? I must have missed the petition to ban you when this "active campaign" was circulating. Just what are you referring to or talking about? When was there an active campaign to have you banned from this forum, Andrew? Are you having those dreams/nightmares again? Or do I have dementia setting in as I don't at all remember this.
And this was with women who were assuring me that they were d.o.n.e. and had been living apart for multiple years. All verified by the fact that their families were very supportive me me dating them.
One of which went back to her not yet divorced husband - at least according to you. Correct? So just goes to prove what they say and what they do are often not the same. You can spin it however you want to spin it but if she went back to her husband after dumping you, at least for a while, well the point stands for itself.
The larger point is, while dating a still married person is not always adultery or cheating, it's most often not a very smart move for either party - and for good reason. That's why many claim they have rules that they will not date someone who is separated or still married and others have rules that they will not date anyone who has not been divorced for at least a year. Now, whether or not they actually follow these rules for themselves or just tell others they should follow them (rules for thee but not for me) is a whole other discussion and story. Perhaps that's the largest wow here - how someone will say it's not a good idea to date a still married or newly divorced person - right up until they do it and then have just as many reasons why it really was not a bad idea all along.
Whatever the case, I don't feel implying she is the OW in the relationship is productive. Yes, I understand we have a lot of LBS in this forum and they are sensitive to this, but that is something they need to work on. It is not G's responsibility to live up to other people's moral standards.
^^^
you guys are aware that this is a DIVORCE BUSTING site, and Michele WD is PRO MARRIAGE, right? It's a 'know your audience' thing
What would he do differently? He said he ignored so many red flags. He had long term relationship that had ended (not right before they met) and he felt his marital clock ticking I guess, and he said he really would have paid attention the red flags. And he can say now he believes in marriage and would absolutely do it again.
Hmm... seems to me based on HIS behavior... he can't be single. It also looks like he's doing it again. Can you see the pattern?
That doesn't mean to not have fun... it means to guard your heart appropriately. There is a reason why people jump from person to person. Keep an eye out for it.
^^^^^ this
shields up, whilst enjoying the moment
Huh????? WHAT??????????? I must have missed the petition to ban you when this "active campaign" was circulating. Just what are you referring to or talking about? When was there an active campaign to have you banned from this forum, Andrew? Are you having those dreams/nightmares again? Or do I have dementia setting in as I don't at all remember this.
The moderators received a request to have me banned. They contacted me directly to get my side of the story and conferred with the MWD organization for a final decision. I was allowed to stay.
We can be grateful I think for the mods doing their best to be fair and unbiased and looking out for this community.
Sorry for the hi-jack G
So .... hockey player .... All his own teeth?
They tend to be big guys these days too. I recall Gretzky once saying that hockey was the only sport where skinny white guys did well - my heavens that was a different world.
PS - Forehead kisses are a great thing. That's the way I would kiss my children and my wife sometimes when leaving for on a trip. For me it's a "I care for you and want you to be protected" gesture. Althought I'm also a bit of a Lord of the Rings nerd too and it's a significant plot point in the books.
The moderators received a request to have me banned. They contacted me directly to get my side of the story and conferred with the MWD organization for a final decision. I was allowed to stay.
That's NUTTY. But at least not some wide spread petition - sounds more like one nutcase making a complaint to which the responsible parties said "um yeah, NO, nothing to see here." DENIED. At least I hope that was the case. Sorta like the frivolous complaints that come into CPS. Pretty sad state of affairs though isn't it? I don't like what you have to say so therefore I'm going to stop you from being able to say it. What crap. But then again, we have a past president who has been banned from some social media so there you go.
Whatever the case, I don't feel implying she is the OW in the relationship is productive. Yes, I understand we have a lot of LBS in this forum and they are sensitive to this, but that is something they need to work on. It is not G's responsibility to live up to other people's moral standards.
^^^
you guys are aware that this is a DIVORCE BUSTING site, and Michele WD is PRO MARRIAGE, right? It's a 'know your audience' thing
Ginger said the guy is done with his wife and in the process of getting divorced. He is not trying to bust his marriage. Are you aware that being pro marriage does not mean forcing someone who has filed for D to stay married? Please stop with the misleading posts. Typing something in caps does not give your statements credibility.
Whatever the case, I don't feel implying she is the OW in the relationship is productive. Yes, I understand we have a lot of LBS in this forum and they are sensitive to this, but that is something they need to work on. It is not G's responsibility to live up to other people's moral standards.
^^^
you guys are aware that this is a DIVORCE BUSTING site, and Michele WD is PRO MARRIAGE, right? It's a 'know your audience' thing
Ginger said the guy is done with his wife and in the process of getting divorced. He is not trying to bust his marriage. Are you aware that being pro marriage does not mean forcing someone who has filed for D to stay married? Please stop with the misleading posts. Typing something in caps does not give your statements credibility.
know your audience, as in not everyone here thinks that dating someone before the ink is dry is cool. Given that the site is titled "Divorce Busting" that should be a given, right?
And for the record, I think you can stop the personal attacks now, MLCxH. I will post what I want where I want and when I want.
know your audience, as in not everyone here thinks that dating someone before the ink is dry is cool. Given that the site is titled "Divorce Busting" that should be a given, right?
And for the record, I think you can stop the personal attacks now, MLCxH. I will post what I want where I want and when I want.
You were the one who personally attacked me and Traveler by taking a quote out of context. I was not attacking you, just responding to your attack on me. I make it a point not to respond to your posts as much as possible, but you tried to misrepresent my post and I had to respond.
Also, in my personal opinion I don’t think it is nice to assign labels such as OW to someone that is on this forum (I.e. Ginger) asking for advice. As I previously requested, please stop with misleading statements and personal attacks. Thank you and have a good day!
Wow....well this certainly has turned into a dumpster fire....
I know I'm not a moderator here ...
But I think that DB or not...married or not, divorced or not...
This thread has certainly NOT encapsulated the essence of DBing very well...
That we should ALL be striving to just "do better"..
C'mon y'all
Can we please do better ???
This day forward ???
Wow....well this certainly has turned into a dumpster fire....
I know I'm not a moderator here ...
But I think that DB or not...married or not, divorced or not...
This thread has certainly NOT encapsulated the essence of DBing very well...
That we should ALL be striving to just "do better"..
C'mon y'all
Can we please do better ???
This day forward ???
agreed
I’m sorry to interrupt this dumpster fire, but I’m having a major crisis. I’m going to give the short version right now.
My exes affair has been confirmed.
In the most nightmarishly way possibly.
My daughter. My poor baby. D and her dad came home one night earlier because he “lost his ID” She came to my house at 3pm today and I came home from work at 6:30. She seemed off. We played some cards and she went to take a shower and after she came in my room and she looked like she was crying. I asked her what was wrong . She broke down in hysterics. On the plane she saw her dad messaging his married friend, who is also his W’a best friend. D saw them call eachother baby and send kissy faces and that they miss eachother and can’t wait to see eachother .
My poor baby has been absolutely sick to her stomach. She is terrified. She is terrified that her dad will not love her. She a terrified this is going to change everything . Her biggest fear is that her dad is a bad person . She’s carrying this heavy heavy heavy weight . Shes afraid to be in the same room as the 3 of them. She says she’s always known that her dad cheated on me with his wife.
There is so much to it, but she’s sitting next to me right now. She needs him to know she knows. I am calling my Work emergency’s mental health assistance program tomorrow to get us an appointment ASAP so we can get an appointment and figure out how to do this.
I can’t even articulate how mature and emotionally intelligent what she expressing to me. I have this whole new respect for my daughter.
I could kill Him for his sloppiness. Does he not know how intelligent and observant our daughter is?
I don’t even have the words right now .
For anyone who would love to see their the affair blow when the kids are involved. Well, it’s gods awful. I never could have imagined this would be the way.
She asked me to sleep in her bed with her tonight. she said she feels better since telling me.
We have to figure this out . She wants me to tell him what she knows in person.
God help me. Luckily I’m getting help of a professional.
{{{{{prayers}}}}}
the good news in all this: she has you. remember that. God picked you to be her mother for a reason, G. You hold her and we'll hold you.
xoxoxo
Her biggest fear is that her dad is a bad person .
Umm, well - he IS!
Wow, this is so awful.
Does she even need to tell dad she knows, or just tell his wife? Keep daughter out of it, just tell his wife, ask HER to keep daughter out of it, I'm guessing she has other ways of finding the goods on him?
I'm just spitballing here, but it seems unnecessary for your daughter to be triangulated into the middle of this - I fear him blaming her for him being found out (even though we ALL guessed it!).
Thank you so much. I just to handle this right . She’s in so much pain. She s scared of so many things .
I’m terrified too. She’s a teenager. She’s such a good kid, she’s so happy and well adjusted and I’m scared this is going to mess her ups beyond the emergency appointment I’m putting her in regular therapy which she really wants too, just to have someone to talk to. I have to keep her whole. I worked so hard to shield her from something this awful.
This is another test of my strength and courage and self control. Momma bear wants to tear him up. But that would do nothing for hurt her .
God willing, this may be the one time he has to face the fire. He doesn’t care about the adult he hurts. But his daughter? My prayer is he will reevaluate his life and how his actions affect others
No, he won't! He couldn't even refrain from messaging his schmoopie while he was right next to his daughter.
This can be a chance to teach your daughter that cheaters seldom change, and educate her so she won't buy any cheaters BS when she is dating. You can also educate her that her father is a limited imperfect person. Also that him cheating on his wife is not him cheating on his daughter, and try to keep the two separate.
No, he won't! He couldn't even refrain from messaging his schmoopie while he was right next to his daughter.
This can be a chance to teach your daughter that cheaters seldom change, and educate her so she won't buy any cheaters BS when she is dating. You can also educate her that her father is a limited imperfect person. Also that him cheating on his wife is not him cheating on his daughter, and try to keep the two separate.
I did exactly this.
She can’t take the pressure of knowing and not having her dad know that she knows. She want him to know she knows. But she doesn’t want anyone else to know, including her stepmother . She can’t live being keeping this in around her dad .
This is so awful.
If anyone‘a moral compass is broken, it’s my exes. The man I chose to father my child. That is where I messed up. That’s where I am to blame. I knew who he was .
I wish my daughter was not his
I'm sorry.
She needs to understand though that his wife deserves to know. She has the right to agency in her own life, to decide if she wants to stay with him while he's cheating or not. I'm absolutely opposed to the idea of keeping quiet about the cheating and letting the abused spouse sit in ignorance. If her dad is gonna be told, his wife needs to know as well.
Oh G... I'm so sorry.
I am glad you are seeking help with this. It's complicated. And it's awful. There are so many people that are impacted by lies and infidelity. Seeing this reality of her dad will unfortunately force her to in some ways realize that people will let her down in life. That is an awful lesson to learn but also empowering to be able to learn from it with loving support. And how to handle it in healthy ways.
I agree that his current partner needs to know. Maybe the counseling will help with this and advise the best way to encourage him to come clean to her (versus your daughter feeling like it is left up to her to either tell her or pretend she doesn't know). She will need boundaries that are there for her through this whole process... I'm so sorry. She is lucky to have you as her mom. ((hugs))...
As for the previous convo about dating the guy who is still in the divorce process. There are many reasons why people will date while still not technically divorced yet. I agree that you have to look for each scenario individually and it is different for everyone. I would just keep your eyes wide open for red flags as others mentioned.
The harder part in my mind (at least that I'm thinking about) is about how to 'see' someone early in the relationship/dating process. I've been following different dating podcasts and one idea struck me as very true. When you first meet someone, you are meeting their 'representative'...in the sense that this person is the person that is trying to show you their best parts. It's not until later that you begin to see the actual person when they start to relax or the real parts peek through the facade. This is why one idea is to date for 10-15 dates before you even get intimate. Get to the point of really seeing who this person is (hopefully in some scenarios that show cracks in the perfect facade) before you get too emotionally invested...which they say intimacy leads us to quickly, especially women. Anyway, not saying that I think you are doing anything wrong by being intimate with the guys you have been dating. I'm just mentioning this as another way to take things slow and to give ample opportunity to see who this guy is and if his 'real self' shows the traits you are searching for. And that still means having fun with the process! Just some ideas to noodle...
El
Ginger1,
On the plane she saw her dad messaging his married friend, who is also his W’a best friend.
So not just an affair...but one with his current W's best friend? Wow.
For anyone who would love to see their the affair blow when the kids are involved. Well, it’s gods awful.
I'll admit I'm one who has had wishes of ExW & OM2 blowing up. I hate to see the impact to your daughter though. That's tough. As messed up as it is your Ex left when she was so young, she's had some stability in a sense with their relationship. I can imagine it'd be shocking for her, and very upsetting. As a father I need to prepare for my own young children having their life disrupted again at some point, because as much as it seems like it right now, what are the odds my ExW and OM2 last until the kids are off to college.
My poor baby has been absolutely sick to her stomach. She is terrified. She is terrified that her dad will not love her.
I do not claim to know the right answer, but for those advocating she tell her dad's current W...just consider that it is her father and there's going to be an emotional part of feeling of betrayal if she does that. Maybe it should come out in another way?
Her biggest fear is that her dad is a bad person .
Great you're getting a counselor involved. It's often said people marry partners who are similar to their opposite sex parent. Maybe if there's a silver lining to this she'll be more aware of that? As a mother, use this opportunity to teach her about the red flags and not rushing into a bad situation and recognizing the treats of her dad so as not to seek that out in a partner herself in the next decade or two as she's dating seriously?
She says she’s always known that her dad cheated on me with his wife.
Goes to show you the truth almost always comes out even far down the line. The kids know/figure it out.
My poor baby has been absolutely sick to her stomach. She is terrified. She is terrified that her dad will not love her. She a terrified this is going to change everything . Her biggest fear is that her dad is a bad person . She’s carrying this heavy heavy heavy weight . Shes afraid to be in the same room as the 3 of them. She says she’s always known that her dad cheated on me with his wife.
I can’t even articulate how mature and emotionally intelligent what she expressing to me. I have this whole new respect for my daughter.
It's goes to your parenting. It's a reflection of you!
Ginger1 - Hang in there. You're a wonderful mother and your experiences and lessons learned will help you help your daughter deal with this situation. Just be there for her, as I'm sure you will.
I’m so sorry, G! How horrific for little G and for you to have to watch her deal with it. I agree with BL in that, if the news is going to come out to his W, it should NOT come from Little G. While I understand the viewpoint that W deserves to know, little G, for all intents and purposes, is still a child and you just don’t involve a child in grown folks business, no matter how mature she is. Seeking counseling to help her through it is a great idea and I hope it brings you both the solace you need to make it through all this. You are strong, G, and you are teaching your daughter to be as well.
(((((G and little G))))) I’m sending up all the positive vibes for both of you.
Thanks for all the feedback and support. I was up at 5 am running through all these scenarios. I am so afraid he is going to deny it or make her think she’s crazy and that she didn’t see what she thought she saw, like he did to me when I found out about his affair. She definitely saw it. And she pieces together a lot of stuff. He came home a day early to go see her. He bought 2 of a souvenir and brought on to her. Apparently when this woman goes on a trip, she gets him a Harley shirt and he was wearing that. She also heard him tell his mom not to tell his wife where he went.
As far as his wife. Definitely is not going to come from her. I won’t let that Happen. It’s either going to have to be him or me. And I have a feeling he will try run interference before I get to her.
And honestly. I want to tell her. And in a kind way. She needs to know leopards don’t change their spots . But I also don’t want my daughter to be upset at me for telling her. But I don’t know how she can be there with the secret both her and her dad knows but not her stepmom.
This is so F’ed up it’s unbelievable. I was just hoping if it had to be found out, it would be between them, and if they decided on divorce, then they could tell her and leave out the affair.
This is such a mess
Hey G...
I know that this is hard, more than hard..
Please try to remember that the affair isn't "your" fight, and that your fight is for Baby G, and what is right for her...
From your past, you have experienced this. Reach down and try to remember what that young you would have wanted to hear...and needed
There is going to be a part of you that is going to feel 'validated" by this revelation. Just don't sit on that hill right now. Not even in thought. Those thoughts will lead your guidance.
You have always known and feared that eventually, G baby would see and understand who her Father really is at his core. And her rug has been pulled out from under her now...
This will be HER experience, yet your guidance now, is pivotal in her growth and development.
There is going to be no right way or wrong way through this.
Only YOUR way....
Everything that baby G is, is because of everything that YOU are for her....
She is who she is because of you...
And I have no doubt that she will come through this amazingly, once again...
Because of your profound love and guidance...
Don't hesitate to lean on anyone, we are all here for you...
Sometimes it takes a village....
How about this? You go meet with the two of them together (without your daughter) and tell them both what D saw. Sure, it’ll drop a bomb, but it will likely put the focus off of D and onto the revelation between the two of them. It also makes it a little harder for ex to gaslight her with both of you there.Then let them know you’ll be keeping D with you until they figure their sh!t out.
Or, if you prefer to be out of the line of fire, you could just tell his wife first and let her handle it how she wants. She might want to get some ducks in a row with finances etc before letting him know what she knows.
There is going to be no right way or wrong way through this. Only YOUR way....
What? Kinda a post of happy platitudes here. But specifically, no wrong way? I can agree with no one right way but I can think of all sorts of wrong ways and they need to be avoided at all costs. Things like this can really shape a child both positively and negatively. Do it the wrong way and the negatives come out.
Hopefully you’ll get a high quality rep from you’re employee assistance program. Some are terrible including one my ex and I were assigned from her healthcare employer when she was dropping the bomb on me. Please have your eyes wide open and don’t hesitate to ask for someone else if you start hearing strange suggestions or getting bad feelings that the counselor is one of the far too many crazy ones out there.
Your D is old enough to hear the truth. Not allowing her the truth will do more harm than good. Somehow she needs to learn she has it backwards. She need not be afraid her dad won’t love her or think highly of her - it’s very much the other way around. Please tell her it’s not her that needs to earn back the trust and love - ITS HER FATHER!!!
Life often has a way of equalizing things. It’s not that you wished it in either of them but they both are likely to now experienced the pain they both heaped on you. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. Job one is having little G understand this has nothing to do with her and she’s done nothing wrong. This can be a healthy life learning experience for her if handled the right way - and yes there are right ways to handle it, just as there are wrong ways - all catchy platitudes aside.
well, I have some thoughts.
I completely disagree emphatically with you or baby G telling current wife anything. Do either of you need that on your consciences for the rest of your lives? I think not.
I think your ex, you and baby G need to address this in a therapy session and after the three of you do that, then maybe his wife can be brought in and he can tell her in front of little G and the therapist.
We have to protect little G and think long term here. She doesn't need to tell anyone but her dad what she saw. She doesn't need the guilt of whatever will happen in that marriage once the wife finds out. Yeah, I know it's not her fault, but she's a 14 year old kid. She's def gonna feel like she has some responsibility if she's the one telling the wife. Leave her (and yourself) out of that rathole. this is his $h!tshow.
and my most important thought of all here Ginger is this one:
God gave you little G because you above anyone else on this planet are the absolute best person to be her mom. YOU. not me, not anyone else posting here.
Never forget that.
Try to have some time for quiet reflection, meditation, prayer. Get quiet inside. You know what to do. I know you do.
I trust you.
You can do this.
There is going to be no right way or wrong way through this. Only YOUR way....
What? Kinda a post of happy platitudes here. But specifically, no wrong way? I can agree with no one right way but I can think of all sorts of wrong ways and they need to be avoided at all costs. Things like this can really shape a child both positively and negatively. Do it the wrong way and the negatives come out.
I agree with you....
My point here, and often times I am a bit cryptic...
Is that , knowing G...
She will go through this and ask herself a thousand times a day if she is doing this right, or doing this wrong....
TO THAT EFFECT...
There is no right way or wrong way, only to find a course of action and do not question the plan that you have set in motion...
(I.E.-----baby G seems to be doing better, I will cut stop her sessions with the counselor today, or should I, yes I will, but maybe I shouldn't)
Of course that plan should be regarded with the right things and eliminating the wrong things...
MODS....considering the sensitivity and context of this thread, would it be possible to run a tad bit over 100 ???
I get the worth of D feeling responsible for the breakup of the marriage. But I disagree totally on not telling the wife. She deserves to have agency in her own life and this is pretty important knowledge for her to have.
How would you feel if you told him and NOT her, only to find out he used that time to empty the bank accounts or otherwise mess with her financially.
I get the worth of D feeling responsible for the breakup of the marriage. But I disagree totally on not telling the wife. She deserves to have agency in her own life and this is pretty important knowledge for her to have.
How would you feel if you told him and NOT her, only to find out he used that time to empty the bank accounts or otherwise mess with her financially.
We will have to agree to disagree here K.
I asked myself how would I feel if my son came to me with this information. I sat with that and really pondered it. I will tell you straight up how what I came away with - like this is none of my business except for how it affects my child. This is not G's mess. Not her pig, not her farm. She already went through a divorce with this guy. This is his mess and their (his and his wife's) relationship, not G's. She has zero responsibility or accountability to either of these people.
So how would I feel if he wiped the wife out financially? I certainly wouldn't feel responsible for anything. Like every other couple who gets married, these two - maybe more than most couples - were aware of divorce rates, cheating statistics, and still they married. What happens between them is just that - between them. She's a big girl - she's a lawyer. I'm sure she could nail his body parts and anything else she wanted to the wall in discovery. This is just not any of Ginger's business except for how it affects little G.
And frankly - it's past time for Ginger to have the ability to step back here and let the chips fall where they may with these two adults. She's been forced to be in a prolonged relationship with each of these people and has done it with so much dignity and grace. I don't think any of us ever stop long enough to remember that, or more importantly, tell Ginger how proud we are of her for taking the highest of the high roads for little G's sake with these two.
Boundaries are for us, not just them and to me, this is a huge boundary I wouldn't cross.
Responsibility here begins and ends with little G's welfare. This is about little G and her relationship with her father, first and foremost. Her father needs to be held absolutely accountable by Ginger for what his affair is doing to little G. I think if little G has a chance to confront her dad with a therapist it will accomplish a few things:
1. gives little G courage and strength to get this out in the open with her dad
2. provide a safe place for little G to confront him with a neutral party mediating the fallout
3. have a professional present who can call big Daddy on his gaslighting BS, should he go that route.
I know we do not agree on this. I respect your opinion. I also feel very strongly about mine here.
Thank you, bttrfly, for saying what I was struggling to find a way to say. With all due respect, kml, I totally agree with what Bttrfly just said. Of course Little G is going to take some of the burden herself because that is what kids do, even when they show emotional maturity far beyond their years, just as little G has in this situation. I would not want my children to feel like they were the ones who had to right the ship between their dad and his current wife. It just isn’t a child’s job. Now, if little G wants to tell HIM what she knows with G’s support then I’m all for that, but she has no responsibility to being the one to have to tell her stepmother. Kids do NOT need to be put in the middle of grown folks business. From where I’m reading, G is doing everything she can to keep little G out of the middle while attending to HER emotional and mental needs as they relate to her father. It’s a messed up situation and it is easy for all of us to armchair quarterback it and I am sure we would all handle things differently, as we see best for our child/ren to protect them.
My XH met his current wife through as affair that started emotional and became physical later. I knew fairly early on. To this day, I don’t know if our daughters know and they will never hear it from me. Our situation is different since my daughters are adults and we’re actually adults at the time of the affair but the only way I would ever discuss it with them would be if they came to me first, like little G did with G. Kids of any age just don’t need to be put in the middle of their orients romantic entanglements and subsequent messes.
And how is little G going to feel going to her father’s knowing his wife is still in the dark about the affair and she has to keep that secret???? That’s no better.
I stand firm that the cheated-upon partner ALWAYS deserves to know the truth, and women should be in solidarity with other women around this issue. Anything less makes little G an accomplice in her father’s affair.
Sure the cheated upon partner deserves to know the truth but it's not G or little G's responsibility to tell her.
I too, stand firm on that position.
It is once they know about it. That’s why so many of us suffered in the dark for so long - because the people who knew didn’t think it was their place to tell us, or weren’t brave enough to tell us.
And this is a toxic secret for little G (and G) to keep.
Was it my son's responsibility to tell me his Dad was banging someone else? He knew 4/24/15. I found out two years ago this week.
He had zero responsibility in that $h!t$how.
The h3ll of it is, he also had no one to bring this information to, so he could get help processing it. His godfather, who certainly knew, did not check on him, did not help him, did not step up in any way, shape or form. No one helped him with this. He was alone and you know exactly what the end result of that was for my boy.
Do I think my son's godfather, who told me for over 20 years that I was family, should have told me the truth? Actually, no. The person who should have told me the truth was exh. The responsibility began and ended with the guy who stood at an altar 28 years ago (yesterday, actually) and exchanged vows with me before God and everyone else who was important to us.
Do I think his godfather should have stepped up for my son?
Absolutely. It's shameful to take that responsibility for a kid and not follow through. That's what I hold my ex-friend accountable for, not anything relating to me and exh and our divorce.
Someone (Ginger) needs to walk little G through this, but the marriage and fallout of betrayal here is not between Ginger, Little G, exh and AP/current wife.
And this is a toxic secret for little G (and G) to keep.
they aren't keeping it if they are confronting big Daddy-o with a therapist about his deceit.
G has a responsibility to keep little G from the craziness. She has no responsibility to wife #2.
It is once they know about it. That’s why so many of us suffered in the dark for so long - because the people who knew didn’t think it was their place to tell us, or weren’t brave enough to tell us.
It's not the responsibility of the world to insert themselves in the private business between a husband and a wife. There's something truly unseemly about that, imho.
The issue here is clear: Little G is upset that her dad is cheating on his wife. This is about little G and her dad. Truly, the wife is tangential to that. The focus needs to be on Little G and minimizing the damage to her, both short and long term.
Adults can take care of themselves.
I agree that people deserve to know but I do not think a child is the one to tell and if G is working with her and a therapist to process it all then that does NOT make little G complicit in the affair. I stand firm in my position that children should not be put in the middle of adult issues. If G wants to tell, well, G is a grown woman so more power to her but I will continue to believe that it is G’s XH’s responsibility, and his alone, to tell the secret. Making G or little G responsible, in any way, for informing wife 2, is beyond cruel, in my opinion.
And I agree with everything bttrfly said, adults can take care of adults, but G’s main priority is taking care of little G and helping her get through this mess with as little damage as possible.
And I agree with everything bttrfly said, adults can take care of adults, but G’s main priority is taking care of little G and helping her get through this mess with as little damage as possible.
that's what I was trying to say, but you put it so much more succinctly Dawn. Thank you.
I think there will be less short and long term damage to little G if she and Ginger stay out of the middle of the $h!t$torm that's to come between Daddy0 and wife #2.
Was it my son's responsibility to tell me his Dad was banging someone else? He knew 4/24/15. I found out two years ago this week.
He had zero responsibility in that $h!t$how.
The h3ll of it is, he also had no one to bring this information to, so he could get help processing it. His godfather, who certainly knew, did not check on him, did not help him, did not step up in any way, shape or form. No one helped him with this. He was alone and you know exactly what the end result of that was for my boy.
Do I think my son's godfather, who told me for over 20 years that I was family, should have told me the truth? Actually, no. The person who should have told me the truth was exh. The responsibility began and ended with the guy who stood at an altar 28 years ago (yesterday, actually) and exchanged vows with me before God and everyone else who was important to us.
Do I think his godfather should have stepped up for my son?
Absolutely. It's shameful to take that responsibility for a kid and not follow through. That's what I hold my ex-friend accountable for, not anything relating to me and exh and our divorce.
Someone (Ginger) needs to walk little G through this, but the marriage and fallout of betrayal here is not between Ginger, Little G, exh and AP/current wife.
and thinking about this further - it's not just his godfather who failed my son.
* Exh's best friend knew and didn't help my son at all. In fact, he instigated a lot of trash talking about me with exh in front of our son - to the point where a 15 and a half year old had to tell this piece of trash 55 year old to stop talking smack about his mother.
* ExMIL knew and so did her husband. Neither of these pillars of society stepped in to help my son process this.
So there's a whole lot of blame to go around here. And not one of those people owed me a d@mn thing. But his grandparents certainly owed my son a safe place to discuss his father's betrayal of our marriage vows. The fact that neither of them did is on them and speaks volumes to their characters or lack thereof.
I expect nothing less from my exMIL. Her husband, on the other hand, is a big disappointment.
Huge.
What's my lesson here, imho? No one will care for my kid the way I will. Not even my kid's father and especially not tangential relatives and friends.
If big G only tells her ex, and he covers his tracks and continues to deceive his wife, how can little G ever go to their house again knowing that secret???
No, little G doesn’t need to confront or tell anybody now that she’s told her mom. But her mom needs to tell both and then let them resolve it however they will while keeping little G out of that toxic environment for a while.
If big G only tells her ex, and he covers his tracks and continues to deceive his wife, how can little G ever go to their house again knowing that secret???
No, little G doesn’t need to confront or tell anybody now that she’s told her mom. But her mom needs to tell both and then let them resolve it however they will while keeping little G out of that toxic environment for a while.
this needs to be balanced against what's best for little G in terms of co-parenting between her dad and Ginger moving forward.
That's got to be the priority here.
Anything less makes little G an accomplice in her father’s affair.
For real?? Nothing in this makes G Jnr even close to accomplice.
IF little G keeps her father’s secret for him while continuing to visit their home knowing stepmom is in the dark? It makes her an unwilling accomplice and that’s incredibly destructive to her, as it was to bttrfly’s son.
to be crystal clear: what was destructive to my son was the fact that the many, many adults who knew about exh's affair did nothing to provide my son a safe place to talk about it.
that's on my exh, my son's godfather, my ex-MIL and her husband, and my exh's bff.
Not one of those people had any responsibility to insert themselves between me and my exh by telling me of his affair, and in fact, I'm glad they didn't.
What I cannot forgive today is their purposeful abandonment of my son when he really needed an adult to walk him through this.
if someone had told me, it would have forever changed my relationship with that person, and likely not for better.
the damage from their telling me to both our relationship and their relationship to exh would have created further collateral damage to our son.
the best of all worlds here is for big Daddyo to man up for little G's sake.
so to further clarify, here's the parallel:
Ginger knows about this. It's incumbent upon Ginger to provide a safe space for Little G to process this, and getting professional help is perfect. Great idea.
My son's godfather, grandmother and step granddad as well as exh's bff all knew about it. I can let BFF off the hook= he has no moral obligation to my son. I can even let the godfather off the hook - not everyone takes that responsibility seriously. But the grandparents? no. they both had a moral obligation to my SON not ME. MY SON who carried this with him.
Ginger has a moral obligation to little G, not wife #2.
Ginger also has to co-parent with this guy for minimally another four years and ideally the rest of little G's life, certainly through the college years. How Ginger handles this with her exh will forever change their co-parenting of Little G. Little G is the priority as is safeguarding her and their co-parenting relationship.
wife #2 is on her own.