Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: BL42 WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - 1 Year Divorced (7) - 05/31/22 04:44 PM
Previous Threads:
WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Don't Want Divorce (1)
WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Don't Want Divorce (2)
WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Don't Want Divorce (3)
WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Divorced Anyway (4)
WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Divorced Anyway (5)
WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Divorced Anyway (6)

Summary:
ExW (37) & I (40) were together 9 years, married 7, with two young children (then S4/D1, now S7/D3). BD shortly after a nice family Disney vacation, and soon discovered her affair w/married co-worker. For months I pursued, chased, begged, snooped...etc., put the kids to bed at night while she "worked late" and got up in the morning with them while she "went to work early". Affair w/OM1 blows up when their employer & OM1's wife find out; instead of working on the marriage ExW starts up w/OM2, moves out, files for divorce, moves OM2 right in (including with my kids). Physical separation coming up on 2 years this Summer and the divorce legally finalized 1 year ago. ExW's been living with OM2 for more than a year and a half in a house she bought across the street from his sister.

I was really crushing it the second half of 2021 - firing on all cylinders - but have felt a little slide in the last few months of 2022. Still a fantastic father and doing well at work, but feeling a bit more worn down, not getting to the gym, pausing grad school...etc. I've had guilt about the situation for the kids (despite not being my choice) and overcompensating there, bending over backwards to flex out of work and be as involved as possible - a good thing - but also need to make my own self-care a priority as well (E.g., put your oxygen mask on first). Did not to date until after D was official - moral thing for me and my kids - and only one date since, so not much to report there. Still have anger in terms of ExW and OM2 living with my kids, mostly when it's in my face.

1 year officially divorced as of last week, an appropriate occasion to start a new thread...
So - are you ready to date now, do you think?
Officially Divorced 1 Year:

Late last week marked the 1 year anniversary of when the divorce officially/legally finalized with the courts signing off. I didn't really feel much or get emotional about it. It's more a marking the time to give a sense of where we stand and a measuring stick on the process.

I'm fairly (completely?) detached from ExW in terms of our relationship. I don't pine for her or wish to be with her in any way, and haven't for quite awhile. I do still have anger moments related to the impact ExW's decisions has on my kids' lives, both the divorce / split households and missing mommy and daddy at times and certainly that they're living with OM2. I don't think about that a lot, especially when I'm with the kids, but then there are moments (E.g., a drop off with his truck, a comment about him from D3, or a sporting event raffle ticket with his name on it) which can rile me up.

I'm absolutely crushing it as S7 and D3's father. We've had some many amazing experiences together and I've flexed out of work to an extreme amount to be engaged with them even several says during my "off" week, which most parents wouldn't be able to do. Also doing well at work, good feedback.

As I mentioned in the summary, and in my last thread, I've felt a falling off on my full steam ahead / firing on all cylinders self and felt a bit more run down over the last few months / less focused on self improvement stuff (E.g., gym, paused grad school...etc.). There's only so much I can do, and I think I need to give self-care a bit more priority. Not that the kid focus isn't important, but I can't keep up the pace forever. I definitely have some guilt about the situation for the kids, even though it wasn't my choice. I'd say it wasn't my fault either. Granted, I wasn't perfect, but ultimately was a pretty good guy and willing to work, whereas ExW was not. But regardless, I've overcompensated with them because of that guilt, and need to schedule in some of my own priorities. Like ScottB over in Newcomers, maybe need to schedule a vacation for myself. That sounded refreshing, invigorating, and just a lot of fun. To date I've used all of my PTO to spend more time with the kids, and nothing for myself. Part of it is also looking ahead a few months and planning it out vs. head down getting through the weeks.

Fantastic Spring Break / Easter, taking the kids on overnights and day trips (theme park, nature hikes, rainy day indoor activities...etc.). Plus Easter egg hunt/basket fun in the morning. Also had a fantastic Memorial Day this past weekend three days in a row of taking them to several local parks/playgrounds, pools...etc. Such bonding moments and memories. Love them so much.

It's also busy this Spring coaching baseball and soccer which has kept me involved. It's more when I don't have the kids where I can feel down at times. For example, S7's school held Friday night Spring Fair which I couldn't take the kids (ExW's time) and one or two people said "I saw your kids at the Fair!", well intentioned, but caused me to feel down a bit I wasn't able to be there with them. Also, there was a school art show which I attended (ExW knew in advance) and we walked around like a fake family to see S7's art. Good for S7 & D3 maybe, but felt a bit weird to me...like everyone probably thinks we're a happy family, why was there a need for this whole situation? Also feel anger at times when, for example, seeing OM2 and his family's names on raffle tickets for baseball. I know, my personal issue.

Also, I'm prepping financial documents for a hearing in two weeks of child support. It's only been 12 months since our original agreement, but ExW got a new job and filed for review of support. Annoying to have to go through this again, but she got a significant bump in pay with the new employer/job, should hopefully result in a reduction in my payments. So fingers crossed.

Sorry for the ramble....just jotting down thoughts & feelings from the last month and a half.
Why did exW file for a review of child support when SHE is making more money? Does she not know how this works??? Or does she think you are making more in just 12 months that would offset her increased income?

An adult vacation sounds like a great idea.

Also - bear in mind - your marriage was already broken when OM2 showed up on the scene. This really isn't about him but about her. Keep your anger focused on her, she's the responsible party.
kml,
Originally Posted by kml
So - are you ready to date now, do you think?
Honestly not sure. I do feel lonely at times and would like some adult companionship, but then other times when the anger bubbles up I think well maybe I'm not ready or when D3 has a meltdown I think well how could anyone want to step into that position and maybe I really just need to focus on the kids. Something casual would be nice, where I could see someone occasionally and enjoy company and maybe an emotional or physical connection as opposed to a quick serious nature, because I can't see how someone could fit into every day life with the young kids.

Originally Posted by kml
Why did exW file for a review of child support when SHE is making more money? Does she not know how this works??? Or does she think you are making more in just 12 months that would offset her increased income?
Good question. Our D agreement says we're obligated to notify of a change in employer, but no requirement to petition for an adjustment to child support, so I think she's confused and conflating the former with the latter...though that's admittedly speculation. My L called the petition "a little bizarre" and said "I've never seen a filing where someone’s own increase is the basis for a modification", but good for me I suppose. I'm effectively paying her mortgage payment at the moment, despite spending more time with the kids than she does, so some relief there would be welcomed and not unreasonable. When she initially told me about the new job/salary she asked if we should deal with the courts or figure it out ourselves, I responded the latter to avoid time/cost/courts/lawyers, but she decided to go through the courts for whatever reason. I get the sense she wants a judge to review it and decide to make it official, which isn't exactly how it works.

Originally Posted by kml
An adult vacation sounds like a great idea.
Yeah, maybe it's time to plan something for myself. Finances & vacation time are not an issue - just need to get past the day-to-day and plan in advance.

Originally Posted by kml
Also - bear in mind - your marriage was already broken when OM2 showed up on the scene. This really isn't about him but about her. Keep your anger focused on her, she's the responsible party.
That's true. I question OM2's integrity sleeping and moving in with a married woman, but no doubt it's more on ExW. I don't have a lot of anger towards OM1 if I'm being honest. My issue more stems from OM2 living with my two young kids. Hate the idea of the immoral example they're being modeled, and me potentially being displaced (though realistically I don't believe that would actually happen).
I hear Sydney is spectacular in Oct/Nov my friend
Good Morning BL

From bttrfly’s thread:

Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by DnJ
For these lost souls the seeds of their crisis were planted long ago. Well before we ever meet them. Their twisted emotional path has nothing to do with us, the LBS, or the children. We didn’t break them, so we cannot fix them.
DnJ - Well said. I read this several times and texted it to my mom.

XW’s path/journey is about her. To realize how confused and mixed up she is/was:

Originally Posted by BL42
They would talk about how great each other was at work, how they had a spark that was perfect and no one ever loved them for who they are until now, how they would never stray again, references to hooking up in the office during work hours, planning a life where kids would be running around in the yard...etc.

XW’s referring to OM1. Yep, will never stray again. Well, until the affair with OM1 blew up. Then found OM2 in short order.

Not about you. Didn’t breaker her, cannot fix her.


It’s one year post divorce. And you are fairly (completely?) detached. I noticed how you stated and qualified your detachment - “in terms of our relationship”. An interesting and important detail which you may be underestimating in significance.

I like to separate detachment and indifference. For me it was helpful to be clear about each. Detachment is no longer being unintentionally emotionally dragged around indifference is feeling rather numb towards them.

Originally Posted by BL42
I don't pine for her or wish to be with her in any way, and haven't for quite awhile.

I am glad you no longer pine for her. It’s the wishing that’s causing some problems. IMHO.

I understand, you do not wish to be with her in any way. However, you are with her. And in a big way. Kids.

Like it or not, you and her have to exchange kids and deal with each other for at least around two more decades. Wishing for different doesn’t serve you. Let go that wish, and embrace what you have.

Originally Posted by BL42
I do still have anger moments related to the impact ExW's decisions has on my kids' lives, both the divorce / split households and missing mommy and daddy at times and certainly that they're living with OM2. I don't think about that a lot, especially when I'm with the kids, but then there are moments (E.g., a drop off with his truck, a comment about him from D3, or a sporting event raffle ticket with his name on it) which can rile me up.

This is understandable and perfectly normal. It takes time to find acceptance. And part of that journey is letting go. And we all require a certain amount of understanding before we can let go.

Grief is a convoluted process. It’s nonlinear and multifaceted. Various items of one’s situations are at different points and stages of their grief; from still being denied and awaiting to be realized to entering final acceptance. Anger, bargaining, and depression of course getting the lion’s share since things being denied are just that - unrealized yet, and accepted things are no longer are grieved.

Your anger towards OM2 and the situation regarding kids due to XW’s choices is within the anger stage. The OM2 emotions shows not being detached. You have a unintentional emotional response to seeing his name, or hearing a comment about him, or seeing his truck. Perfectly normal BL. It’s ok. It also shows where you need to do some detachment work. As I said, we all require understanding before we can let go. And letting go is more along and after the indifference part.

The few angry moments you experience from kids missing mommy and daddy time, and them living and being influenced by OM2, is from you. You craft these emotional responses. You are detached - as in you are not dragged around like when you see OM2, you just aren’t yet indifferent. This is good by the way, and a good thing to realize. Since if you control this, then you can control a different response. Well, influence a different emotional response (an indifferent response). We only directly control our thoughts, actions, and reactions after all. Through those three things, we influence ourselves and thus our life.

Consider that feelings are fleeting. They are born from within our subconsciousness, and without reinforcement will flit away in minutes. Feelings are triggered and reinforced by forces and events that oftentimes are we have coupled together. The uncoupling of those is detachment and finding indifference.

Originally Posted by BL42
I question OM2's integrity sleeping and moving in with a married woman, but no doubt it's more on ExW. I don't have a lot of anger towards OM1 if I'm being honest. My issue more stems from OM2 living with my two young kids. Hate the idea of the immoral example they're being modeled, and me potentially being displaced (though realistically I don't believe that would actually happen).

Certainly lots things coupled and tangled together.

“Hate the idea”. Yep. I get it. However regarding kids and possible problems, that is a rather future yet to happen kind of a thing. No need to borrow trouble, nor carry that burden for the next decades. At 6 and 3, your kids do not understand the immoral situation that lead to their present living arrangements. And XW is well an ex, now. Sure when OM2 (and OM1) and her started up she was married, so plenty of immoral blame to both parties. Now, a year passed divorce. Carrying that around doesn’t serve you BL.

You no longer, or well not much, are angry towards OM1. Why? Time. Indifference. Letting go. You control/influence you. OM2 - you can find the same indifference.

You being displaced or even replaced. Like a lot of our journey, we need to let go a future that hasn’t happened and is likely not to. Worrying and stressing over a possible future - such is fear - causes one to live anxiously.

An anxious person lives in the future, a depressed person lives in the past. Peace comes from living within the present moment. Plan your wonderful future and accept your immutable past.

So control. Your actions. Your time with kids. You are their Dad. Their role model. Their living example. Have faith and realize, they are always watching and listening and learning.

Originally Posted by BL42
I've felt a falling off on my full steam ahead / firing on all cylinders self and felt a bit more run down over the last few months / less focused on self improvement stuff (E.g., gym, paused grad school...etc.). There's only so much I can do, and I think I need to give self-care a bit more priority. Not that the kid focus isn't important, but I can't keep up the pace forever. I definitely have some guilt about the situation for the kids…

Yep. Something feels different, doesn’t it. Why ain’t I firing on all cylinders? You are entering the depression stage of grief. This needed step is part of the process. It is along the journey to acceptance, to emotional understanding and acceptance. You already intellectually accepted things, it’s your emotional side, your heart (hope you kept it soft and squishy) that is catching up. Perfect normal. Everyone has this lag or delay.

Control, a most intellectual ability. An ability that can, and does, influence your emotional side.

For the next while you will feel off. Know the temporary nature of this. Continue your life and pursuits. I know, it feels weird. Actually it will feel - nothing. An indifference will engulf much. Sorry BL, it’s just how this process goes. Depression of the loss of your marriage, of the guilt towards your kids, and so on; it is dark and draining. And temporary. Remember this is a journey towards emotional understanding, and as such is often below the conscious surface for us. Answers and revelations will present themselves when one is calm and at peace.

Continue being Dad. I even somewhat lost my feelings for my kids during my depression over J. Remember you know, even when you feel not. And your feelings all comes back. And so much better than before; which is really saying something.

And yes, that includes feelings towards XW. Acceptance brings peace. Have faith.

Originally Posted by BL42
Sorry for the ramble....just jotting down thoughts & feelings from the last month and a half.

Sorry for the rambling response. Lol

Have a great day.

D
I got lazy tonight and ordered Chinese take out. Almost threw the fortune cookie out with the brown paper bag but held back at the last second, opened the wrapper, took a bite of the fairly stale cookie, and read the fortune:

"An agreeable romance might begin to take on the appearance."

A positive omen or playful tease?!? Lol
Originally Posted by BL42
I can't see how someone could fit into every day life with the young kids.
Well, remember even for someone dating "seriously" with marriage in mind like K, they've seen my kids exactly twice in the 6 months and my kids can't remember her name. It will be AT LEAST 1-2 years into dating before you have to start thinking about such questions. And before then your kids and her will have met and you'll have some idea how they might fit together.

All you need to figure out now is whether she fits into YOUR life.
I can certainly understand how dating with young kids is a daunting task when you look to integrating families . But someone doesn’t just come along and fit into you and your kids every day life. You date someone and you make your relationship about the 2 of you for Atleast the first 6 months. And then you slowly start doing things together. Likely the woman who comes along for you has you had young kids as well. She she isn’t just going to slide into your life. But she will likely understand and may even be going through the 3’s herself or has been there already and gets it. It’s a process to blend families for sure . But make it a long process because no one just becomes an insta family.

So don’t borrow trouble from the future yet. When you find someone you want to date,
Just date them. And if it’s good and progresses, then you will grow into it.

Hang in there ! That fortune cookie might be right !
Traveler,
Originally Posted by Traveler
All you need to figure out now is whether she fits into YOUR life.
Fair enough. Thanks for the feedback.

Ginger1,
Originally Posted by Ginger1
I can certainly understand how dating with young kids is a daunting task when you look to integrating families . But someone doesn’t just come along and fit into you and your kids every day life. You date someone and you make your relationship about the 2 of you for Atleast the first 6 months. And then you slowly start doing things together. Likely the woman who comes along for you has you had young kids as well. She she isn’t just going to slide into your life. But she will likely understand and may even be going through the 3’s herself or has been there already and gets it. It’s a process to blend families for sure . But make it a long process because no one just becomes an insta family.
You say this, but consider the irony of our Exs! Certainly seems like they slid right into their perfect family life without any transition struggles. That's part of the frustration. Why are we the ones stuck trying to figure out the future?

Originally Posted by Ginger1
So don’t borrow trouble from the future yet. When you find someone you want to date, Just date them. And if it’s good and progresses, then you will grow into it.
Point taken, and you're right - why worry about the future problems which may never be issues.
Pulling the BL42 specific discussion in the Evolutionary Psychology and Dating thread over...

Originally Posted by kml
BL42 - sounds like you’ve got a lot going on , on paper. Maybe your OLD profile needs some editing? Sounds like your basic details would have passed my screening when I was OLD (except for age - too young - and kids - too young). So I’m wondering if there are things in your profile that need improvement?
Thanks kml. I like to think so, and agree a OLD profile revamp might be in order. I'm thinking of deleting my accounts and logging off for awhile and then starting renewed after a break.

Originally Posted by Traveler
BL42, you don't give off the bitter or misogynistic vibe some who struggle with dating do.
Traveler - Thanks, I agree I'm not bitter - just pointing out my sitch for the other thread.

Originally Posted by Traveler
I second a redo of your profile text or photos could do wonders and get you as many matches as I or OnlyBent or Spiral do. If you're not comfortable posting your dating info here, or showing a close female friend, there are services that specialize in writing or polishing dating profiles. Most people I know get as many matches offline as online, so if online just isn't your thing, that's okay too!
Traveler - I agree. I'll have to revamp and strategize on the OLD profile front.

Originally Posted by OnlyBent
BL, if it helps my profile is very simple. 4 photos, one in a suit before a wedding, one in a pink blazer and pants with two friends, a short boomerang type video of me dancing at a house party (which gets LOTS of comments) and a photo of me in my footy gear at footy.

I have my interests as Gym, Basketball, Cooking, Wine and Whisky and that I'm 6'1....

My bio says 'I think I'm funny, smart, charming, a great listener and can cook...but I'll let you be the judge of all that' and have answered one of those pre-canned questions 'I guarantee that...I'll make you laugh'.

It may or may not help that I've been told by a lot of people that I have Daniel Craig vibes...
OB - Appreciate the tips. "Daniel Craig vibes" sounds ideal!!!

Originally Posted by LH19
BL to be honest I think you are in a tough spot due to your age and having young kids. A man on avg dates a woman 4 years younger so you are looking at 35 year olds. Woman at that age are looking to start their own family or do not want kids. There are not a ton of freshly divorced woman with young kids at 35. They typically wait for the kids to get older before they file for divorce. My guess is this is your problem which you can't control.
I think you're right LH. My age and the young kids aren't ideal for many women. As one example consider Ginger's guy she really likes but he has a 6yo and 3yo and not much time to devote outside of them, which isn't in line with where she is in life. And I'll be honest and say when I was single w/o kids I wasn't looking to have a relationship with a woman with children. So it's fair, and it is what it is. I accept that. And plan to give my kids plenty of focus with or without dating. But I do think despite the kids' age I'd be a great partner for many women out there. Career, finances, being a father and genuinely great guy with his "stuff" together. When the women do show up, they'll be impressed...or should be!

Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by kml
Past a certain age it’s hard meeting single people of the opposite sex if you don’t work around a lot of members of the opposite sex.
Opportunity is a big part, I'm sure. My virtual IT Mgr role managing people all over the country provides great income/career but does not lend itself to networking locally / in-person like a hospital or school district would.
I have ZERO opportunity to meet available women in-person in my role. I make maybe a top 5% salary, especially for my area, with plenty of room for growth but don't have a "Dr" or "L" title that necessarily reflects that on OLD profiles. However, the big sticking point is lack of in-person / local networking. I need to figure out how to put myself in places to do that outside of work. Volunteering to coach S7's sports has led to me meeting a bunch of kids and parents, but mostly married in their nuclear families. Maybe a hobby / activity that's traditionally more female interest (yoga...whatever) than what I've been doing. Because I think opportunities and putting yourself in the right situations is a big part of it.
BL, not sure if you ever answered this, but the question is, would you have any more kids? Or get married again?

The woman I am going on a 3rd date with tonight is 39, which to be honest is a bit older than I have been dating, I've been dating 32-35, but she looks young which helps. She has told me that she realises children aren't for her now and would be happy to slot into someone's life who did already have them. So they are out there.

On the other hand, my Persian friends with benefits is 38 and desperate for kids and has always had a not date anyone with kids policy. But at her age she is starting to realise how limiting this is and has recently met a guy she completely vibes with and is now thinking about changing that policy. I had to give her a big kick up the backside to continue things with him because at this age, perfect just does not exist.
OnlyBent,
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
BL, not sure if you ever answered this, but the question is, would you have any more kids? Or get married again?
I love kids and being a father. Before BD while married in a nuclear family I definitely would've had a third, but knew now-ExW wasn't into more (at least she wasn't at the time, people's opinions sometimes change after the babies get a bit older). Post-BD I thought if I re-married I'd absolutely be open to more kids, but as time has passed since BD & D I find myself thinking more and more that I'm probably done. I have a wonderful son and a wonderful daughter, and love being their dad, and am content with that. At my age now and with my situation it may be best to keep it at that. But, if I found a fantastic woman who really wanted a child of her own maybe I would be open to it. Who can say - you never know what the future will bring - but more and more I'm thinking I'm probably done having kids and I'm fine with that.

Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Or get married again?
I'd consider getting married again if I found a woman I genuinely wanted to spend the rest of my life with. However, three things...First, I'd be completely content with finding an LTR without officially / legally "marrying", if the woman was accepting. Second, I'm going to be way more skeptical and more closely vet red flags. And third, now better understanding the marriage/divorce laws and impacts I'd want to protect myself financially. I'd section off pre-martial accounts and want a prenup to cover things like retirement funds and alimony IF the other person wanted out. That's what's gotten me a bit in all this. I know I'm loyal and willing to hold up my vows, but was naïve going into my marriage thinking both parties would do the same. I won't open myself up to splitting my retirement contributions again when there's no guarantee they'll honor their end of the "till death do us part" vow.

Originally Posted by OnlyBent
she realises children aren't for her now and would be happy to slot into someone's life who did already have them. So they are out there.
Sounds like an ideal perspective for someone dating us.

Originally Posted by OnlyBent
I had to give her a big kick up the backside to continue things with him because at this age, perfect just does not exist.
You're encouraging your FWB to seriously date another man? Talk about detachment and DB'ing!
Dude - you’re 40 and you think a 39 year old woman is too old for you???
Originally Posted by BL42
But, if I found a fantastic woman who really wanted a child of her own maybe I would be open to it. Who can say - you never know what the future will bring - but more and more I'm thinking I'm probably done having kids and I'm fine with that.

I can understand this. I thought I was a no to both until I met the Melbourne girl and then that became something I could see down the track, although I haven't felt that with others. I would love a daughter but understand that may not be in the cards for me.

Originally Posted by BL42
I know I'm loyal and willing to hold up my vows, but was naïve going into my marriage thinking both parties would do the same.

I hear ya mate. Don't lose those qualities though.

Originally Posted by BL42
You're encouraging your FWB to seriously date another man? Talk about detachment and DB'ing!

Absolutely, we have fun together and she's gorgeous but she ain't the girl for me. I'd love to see her happy.
Originally Posted by kml
Dude - you’re 40 and you think a 39 year old woman is too old for you???

I know right, and I thought 32-35 was pushing the upper limits
You may remember I played in a Golf Sim league this past Winter with a friend also going through a separation/D, and we would discuss our experiences and commemorate a bit. He had a tough sitch where he moved out due to concerns of accusations and the judge ruled temporarily to "leave things as is until a hearing" meaning he had not gotten a whole lot of time with the kids even though he is the stable/reasonable party and his lawyer expected him to win primary custody based her actions. Anyway, it's been awhile since we caught up with the league season having ended so I reached out this week and he texted me back saying...he and his W have reconciled!!! I absolutely did not see that one coming. Told him I was surprised to hear it but also glad because if they can work it out it's best for the kids (he has two young children similar ages to mine). Him and his W had Ls negotiating and court dates set and everything and now they're reconciled. Not sure what the future holds there...my guess is they have a good bit of tough work to do if they're going to make it and avoid BD2, but a potentially good story in the present anyway.

Also I've exchanged some texts and had an extended late night conversation with one of my long time friends who's having major difficulty in his marriage. I've known him since HS and his W for 20 years. She's having an EA with an old friend/flame from her hometown. Shady calls & texts...all the cliche red flags. He's relieved that live far away and that it hasn't gotten to PA and also she's ramped up their sex life at home with him...but I warned him based on stories here. Ironically, this is the couple I went away with on a Winter trip with my son soon after BD (which my now-ExW had actually booked for all of us a month or two prior and I was scared to go on because of what was happening), and he and his W especially were SUPER supportive of me and absolutely appalled at my then-W's actions, reaching out to see how I was doing regularly...and now she's in an EA. I'm trying to give him a bit of coaching about strength and respect and not taking comfort in the EA vs. PA. They're off on a family vacation together now with the kids so he says "it's going as well as can be expected", but the vacation is to her hometown so hopefully she' not planning to have him babysit and split out to meet up with this guy. But am definitely concerned for him about where it might be heading. He's a good man and a good father and I don't want to see his family blown up and him go through what we've all experienced.

Anyway, the knowledge that these two cases exist it makes me wonder what else might be going on in the homes of close friends I simply know nothing about but could be starting to boil over...
BL,

the truth is shocking and it is true we just never know what is going on behind closed doors. And it goes to show, that the statistics, how ever terrifying they might be, are right. Sadly...

I do try to offer my advice to people in this situation, esp. having gone through the same thing myself. Very rarely is my advice accepted, but very often I get a "You were totally right, I so wish I heeded your advice."

I am not upset about people not taking my advice, sometimes lessons learned are best if experienced by oneself.
Originally Posted by BL42
I'm trying to give him a bit of coaching about strength and respect and not taking comfort in the EA vs. PA.
What is your advice? How is he accepting it?
Vapo,
Originally Posted by Vapo
I do try to offer my advice to people in this situation, esp. having gone through the same thing myself. Very rarely is my advice accepted, but very often I get a "You were totally right, I so wish I heeded your advice."
How many situations have you weighed in on in real life? Sounds like a number of them?

LH19,
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by BL42
I'm trying to give him a bit of coaching about strength and respect and not taking comfort in the EA vs. PA.
What is your advice? How is he accepting it?
I get the sense that while he knows it's not good, he thinks "well we're having sex more and on family vacation so it's not that bad", whereas it's my opinion that the situation is much more serious/risky/dire than he believes. Now, maybe that's through the lens of my sitch and I'm jaded, but we all have seen the countless situations play out here. I'm pretty concerned for him and have been trying to reach out regularly.

I told him to start hitting the gym hard. He's certainly not overweight - you might call him thin relative to people his age - but he could convert some fat to muscle and bulk up. Him and his W went to a predominately engineering / high male ratio college but had a hockey team seen as the athletic cool guys who apparently she hooked up and dated a few before they were together, so maybe she's having fantasies/flashbacks about that. He a great guy but not a college athlete type.

I told him to start acting out of strength and flipping his mindset that he's the prize and she's crazy if she leaves him. Stop being weak and making excuses about "just being friends" and "helping her friend out with a breakup". She's cheating and lying, and he needs to recognize and accept that and act accordingly.

Also to try to release control. It's gonna be her journey and he can't force her to do anything - if she's going to PA he can't stop it. He has to focus on himself.

I'm honestly not sure what to say about how to deal with the calling and texting of the EA. He's seen phone logs and spied on texts, and knows it's more than friends. It reminds me so much of where I was went I took my son away with them during the period right after my BD where I knew my then-W was texting her coworker inappropriately. But...does he tell her to stop? He can't control her. But if he doesn't does he then just go along and accept it? That's weak. She knows he knows she's talking to a "friend" and they both now at a minimum it's crossing a line. They've talked about it. And he's had check ins with her about it, which I told him to stop.

Honestly the two of them...he's a high performer engineer for an aerospace company and she's a PA for a medical organization. Just estimating but they must make $300-400k between them, have two wonderful children in grade school (around my kids age maybe a year or two older), beautiful home in the suburbs of a big city. No abuse, no drugs, no money issues...etc. It's this seemingly idyllic two kids and a picket fence life which most dream of, but as we know around here that doesn't matter. I just hate to see things blow up. It'd be a tragedy for everyone involved, him, the kids, and (imo) even her.
Originally Posted by BL42
Him and his W went to a predominately engineering / high male ratio college but had a hockey team seen as the athletic cool guys who apparently she hooked up and dated a few before they were together, so maybe she's having fantasies/flashbacks about that.
Women love the bad boys.
Originally Posted by BL42
I told him to start acting out of strength and flipping his mindset that he's the prize and she's crazy if she leaves him.
You are a good friend BL.
Originally Posted by BL42
Stop being weak and making excuses about "just being friends" and "helping her friend out with a breakup". She's cheating and lying, and he needs to recognize and accept that and act accordingly.
Exactly!
Originally Posted by BL42
Also to try to release control. It's gonna be her journey and he can't force her to do anything - if she's going to PA he can't stop it. He has to focus on himself.
But he has a say in what he will or ill not tolerate
Originally Posted by BL42
I'm honestly not sure what to say about how to deal with the calling and texting of the EA.
So DB says detach, 180, GAL which as we no NEVER works. Hindsight LH19 says "You can't have both. It's either him or me". If you choose him get your $hit and get out.
Originally Posted by BL42
And he's had check ins with her about it, which I told him to stop.
Hey hun you still cheating on me?
Originally Posted by BL42
Honestly the two of them...he's a high performer engineer for an aerospace company and she's a PA for a medical organization. Just estimating but they must make $300-400k between them, have two wonderful children in grade school (around my kids age maybe a year or two older), beautiful home in the suburbs of a big city. No abuse, no drugs, no money issues...etc. It's this seemingly idyllic two kids and a picket fence life which most dream of, but as we know around here that doesn't matter. I just hate to see things blow up. It'd be a tragedy for everyone involved, him, the kids, and (imo) even her.
Sad but predictable. He probably dropped the ball as a H and she became board and reconnected on FB. Welcome to the 2000s!
Originally Posted by BL42
Vapo,
Originally Posted by Vapo
I do try to offer my advice to people in this situation, esp. having gone through the same thing myself. Very rarely is my advice accepted, but very often I get a "You were totally right, I so wish I heeded your advice."
How many situations have you weighed in on in real life? Sounds like a number of them?

SAdly, there has been quite a number of these situations. Once you go through such a situation, you develop a sort of radar for detecting MLC. And once you start, you cannot help but noticing MLC all around you. It is astonishing...
I had an out of town getaway this past weekend for my college buddy's (second) wedding. W1 also went to college with us so we all knew and were friends her, but the two of them live quite a distance so we didn't often see each other post-graduation except for events like weddings. I remember she wasn't drinking at my wedding and they announced she was pregnant with their second child. Then, a year or two later they were separated and divorced. I remember back then being shocked how two friends of mine who seemed like a good couple and who had two young children (one barely a toddler) getting divorced. Now, I guess with my experience I can understand how it happened.

As far as I know the two of them separated/divorced amicably. They kept posting pictures on social media about going to places together with the kids and great co-parenting. And I talked to him after my own BD to get some insight / perspective and he thought they got along well and said maybe 50/50 at the time about them reconciling at some point in the future. I'm not aware of any affair and my understanding is he met W2 after the D, and W1 is not in another relationship currently.

There was some talk about the situation at the wedding. My friend's sister mentioned "meeting at the first time around with W1" in the elevator to me. I made a faux pas referring to "groom and W1" instead of W2 to a couple who was there as friends of W2...opps. And my good buddy and some other college friends of the groom even wondered out loud before the wedding if W1 might be in attendance (because of the amicable nature).

I do wonder how W1 felt over the weekend. I imagine it might be emotional for her, even if the D was a mutual decision.

It was my first wedding since BD. I wasn't anxious to go alone or about feelings potentially stirring up related to my situation, mostly just excited to see friends. However, I'll tell you the moment that did really hit me hard and deep - it was when the groom's two children (approx two years older than mine) walked down the aisle and were part of the ceremony of their one parent and not their other parent. It made me reflect on my situation and thinking of my own kids potentially being apart of another wedding with ExW and OM2 and I got sad and teared up honestly. I know mine are already merged into a different family life part time, regardless of a wedding/legal marriage, but still get emotional and have a hard time accepting that occasionally. The good news is groom's / W1's kids seemed happy and the ceremony and were tearing up the dance floor at the reception, so hopefully it was all good for them...but it did twinge my own heart a bit as a dad who is still working on "Surviving the Big D".

Anyway, I was mostly excited to be reunited all our close college buddies for the first time since before COVID. Unfortunately two of our really close friends backed out at the last minute. And their wives I know and were friends with as well. That was disappointing. Kind of ruined our big "reunion" with everything there. However, I did have a great time catching up the day before and of the wedding with one close friend and his new girlfriend and a high school buddy who also happens to live in that city, and we toured all around. That was a blast.

Overall I'm glad I made the (long) trip and could catch up with several friends I hadn't seen in years.

A couple wedding weekend observations I made relevant to recent discussions on the forum:

-The groom met W2 via OLD (Hinge, I believe) after the divorce. So it does work sometimes! She's beautiful, energetic, happy, family first kind of girl (if what I observed/heard is to be believed) and has certainly embraced being a stepmom to the kids, so I guess that's all you can ask for them.

-My other college buddy and his new girlfriend met through an OLD site (not sure which) before the pandemic. She seemed super friendly and they seemed happy at first, but then a lot of the weekend the two were bickering and passive aggressive and so I left not being exactly sure about their relationship. Time will tell and I wish them the best, but they need to communicate and work on some things or they'll have issues even if they do "make it".

-My high school buddy seems well enough but I just get a sense him and his W relationship isn't the best. He doesn't seem thrilled with things and has mentioned issues she's had about not holding a job due to focus...etc. I don't know. He's one of my oldest friends. Hope he's happy.

-Met a couple at our table where the guy was significantly older than his girlfriend. The rest of the table was all speculating and we put the timeline together that he's 55+ and she was gotta be younger than 40, maybe 35? He did not look that old. He was in-shape, dressed well, shaven head, very engaging and sociable (we all liked him) and mentioned he had sold his company and went corporate. She was incredibly attractive, high heels, tight dress, very sociable / likeable as well and could definitely date any single guy her age. They were self-described as boyfriend / girlfriend, not engaged or married, no kids. It'd be interesting to follow along with their relationship to see what happens, but they were on the bride's "side" of the wedding, so I'm not connected on social media or anything.

Anyway...thought those observations were interesting in light of recent discussions here. 4 couples, 2 happy / 2 (potentially) unhappy. 2 met on OLD (must have some success), plus the age / attraction dynamic. Everything looked at through the DB'ing lens these days...
Originally Posted by BL42
The groom met W2 via OLD (Hinge, I believe) after the divorce. So it does work sometimes! She's beautiful, energetic, happy, family first kind of girl (if what I observed/heard is to be believed) and has certainly embraced being a stepmom to the kids, so I guess that's all you can ask for them.
Yeah it works for sure. Hinge is the best free app. I match with a lot of girls from Toronto on Hinge but the distance is too much for most women. Most of the bad OLD stigma comes from Tinder.
Originally Posted by BL42
Met a couple at our table where the guy was significantly older than his girlfriend. The rest of the table was all speculating and we put the timeline together that he's 55+ and she was gotta be younger than 40, maybe 35? He did not look that old. He was in-shape, dressed well, shaven head, very engaging and sociable (we all liked him) and mentioned he had sold his company and went corporate. She was incredibly attractive, high heels, tight dress, very sociable / likeable as well and could definitely date any single guy her age. They were self-described as boyfriend / girlfriend, not engaged or married, no kids. It'd be interesting to follow along with their relationship to see what happens, but they were on the bride's "side" of the wedding, so I'm not connected on social media or anything.
What??? You say a high status male was at the wedding with a sexy woman 20 years younger? I have to say I am shocked! You say they are not married? I have to say I am shocked! You say she say she would rather be with a high status male 20 years older than a nice guy her own age? I have to say I am shocked lol.
Originally Posted by LH19
What??? You say a high status male was at the wedding with a sexy woman 20 years younger? I have to say I am shocked!

Who said he was a high status male? You assume. They assume. All we know for sure is he was upper middle age and compensating his receding hairline by shaving his head. We don’t know much else other than he was in shape and dressed well. Don’t know his job, his morals, his ethics, his income, his wealth, etc. same with her. She could very well have been from the sugar baby/daddy sites. I’ve seen it before. He could be 3 times divorced and a dead beat dad up to his eyeballs in debt. Or he could be as you assume, but we can only surmise. We really don’t know.

As for OLD creating marriages, that’s far more likely in the 20 and 30 something crowd than in the 40s and most certainly 50s groups. The chances of these 2 having a forever marriage are tiny - possible but unlikely. But it was a fun wedding date I’m sure and provided the group with speculation and fodder.
Don I get the feeling you despise the Chads of the world. Are you an Incel? lol.
LH19,
Originally Posted by LH19
Hinge is the best free app.
Hinge seemed the "classiest" in my brief experience, which appeals to me.

Originally Posted by LH19
I match with a lot of girls from Toronto on Hinge but the distance is too much for most women.
Aren't you in the US? How far are you from Toronto?

Originally Posted by LH19
Most of the bad OLD stigma comes from Tinder.
My experience of Tinder is a trash heap. 90% fake, catfish, and trashy. Quality profiles few and far between.

Originally Posted by LH19
What??? You say a high status male was at the wedding with a sexy woman 20 years younger? I have to say I am shocked! You say they are not married? I have to say I am shocked! You say she say she would rather be with a high status male 20 years older than a nice guy her own age? I have to say I am shocked lol.
I had a feeling this observation may pique your interest, LH! Definitely an example of a guy who put in the work and put himself in a great spot in his later dating years.

DonH,
Originally Posted by DonH
Who said he was a high status male? You assume. They assume.
Granted I only met him for 4 hours, but he certainly came across as high status. I used the term "in-shape", but he was built/jacked. He polished and put together, wore a fitted suit and had a great smile, and was very charming and sociable. Mentioned selling his business and went corporate. I don't know whether he was married before, but based on the conversation don't believe he had kids. He was invited as a close friend / defacto-family member of the bride, so doubt he brought a sugar baby. But what's behind the façade? Obviously I don't have a detailed background check and can't refute your "we really don't know", but he definitely gave off high status vibes.
Originally Posted by BL42
Aren't you in the US? How far are you from Toronto?
BL I am about an hour and a half from Toronto.
Quote
Originally Posted by LH19
Hinge is the best free app.
Hinge seemed the "classiest" in my brief experience, which appeals to me.

I have been off the dating apps for a few years now, and last used OkCupid (although I didn't like their redesign as well as the original version). I'm curious as to what people see as the pros and cons of the different apps (and how the age ranges skew on different ones).

I liked OkCupid for their lengthy profiles (with prompts) as it let me learn a lot about someone and rule out really incompatible people pretty easily. I also liked their in depth questionnaires, which would give you a compatibility score with other's answers. I found any of the guys I met who had at least a 90% compatibility score with me were usually the type of people I would likely get along with, at least as friends. However, this app is old and I doubt younger people are using it any more, so it may be skewing older than when I was on there.
Originally Posted by kml
I'm curious as to what people see as the pros and cons of the different apps (and how the age ranges skew on different ones).
I see similar 30s-50s women looking for casual or true love on both Tinder and Bumble, so you likely won't go wrong with either. I'd prefer Bumble for you because "women initiate communication" means you won't be spammed as much with scams or dick pics. For the woman who can't bring themselves to initiate, there's a button to send a random GIF.

I'd mention another option for you--personal matchmaking via sites like Tawkify. For a moderate fee, they vet people for you--you just show up on dates. I declined their fees. A month later they began calling me and setting me up with ladies for free whose requirements I matched who also matched mine, so my experience was fun! Worth a call!
What is a “high status” male anyways? Has a career and looks good while having a personality ? He’s not a god. That’s just being a human

What makes a “high status female” ?
I haven't used Tinder or Bumble, but my impression of Tinder from people's discussions of it seems like people don't write very long profiles and initial decisions are made very quickly with the "swipe right, swipe left" nonsense. Also seems to be particularly popular with the hookup culture.

Bumble seems like a reasonable idea for those women who are intimidated by men contacting them. I might lose my advantage there though lol. I think being a woman willing to contact men first on the other apps may have given me an edge over the competition. I know that some of the men I contacted, for whom I was slightly above their stated age range, were more than happy to date me although they would never have even seen my profile the way they had their settings. They didn't think I was too old for them once they saw my profile (I'm talking guys maybe 2-6 years younger). The guys who were much younger than that were all ones who contacted me or, in the case of Mr Big Lots, he met me IRL (he was, I think, 9 years younger?).

Honestly, people in their 50's and 60's start to diverge quite a bit on the aging process, so a guy 9 years younger might be the same biological age as me, or a guy 9 years older. Stage of life seems to be more important.
Originally Posted by Ginger1
What is a “high status” male anyways? Has a career and looks good while having a personality ? He’s not a god. That’s just being a human

What makes a “high status female” ?
We’ve beat this horse to death. Move on.
I've reached out to my friend who's W is having an EA (see details below) a few times since we first talked but he hasn't engaged much. Well today he texted asking if I can talk tonight after the kids go to bed. My gut tells me this is not a good sign.

Any advice on what else to tell him?


Originally Posted by BL42
Also I've exchanged some texts and had an extended late night conversation with one of my long time friends who's having major difficulty in his marriage. I've known him since HS and his W for 20 years. She's having an EA with an old friend/flame from her hometown. Shady calls & texts...all the cliche red flags. He's relieved that live far away and that it hasn't gotten to PA and also she's ramped up their sex life at home with him...but I warned him based on stories here. Ironically, this is the couple I went away with on a Winter trip with my son soon after BD (which my now-ExW had actually booked for all of us a month or two prior and I was scared to go on because of what was happening), and he and his W especially were SUPER supportive of me and absolutely appalled at my then-W's actions, reaching out to see how I was doing regularly...and now she's in an EA. I'm trying to give him a bit of coaching about strength and respect and not taking comfort in the EA vs. PA. They're off on a family vacation together now with the kids so he says "it's going as well as can be expected", but the vacation is to her hometown so hopefully she' not planning to have him babysit and split out to meet up with this guy. But am definitely concerned for him about where it might be heading. He's a good man and a good father and I don't want to see his family blown up and him go through what we've all experienced.

Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by BL42
I'm trying to give him a bit of coaching about strength and respect and not taking comfort in the EA vs. PA.
What is your advice? How is he accepting it?
I get the sense that while he knows it's not good, he thinks "well we're having sex more and on family vacation so it's not that bad", whereas it's my opinion that the situation is much more serious/risky/dire than he believes. Now, maybe that's through the lens of my sitch and I'm jaded, but we all have seen the countless situations play out here. I'm pretty concerned for him and have been trying to reach out regularly.

I told him to start hitting the gym hard. He's certainly not overweight - you might call him thin relative to people his age - but he could convert some fat to muscle and bulk up. Him and his W went to a predominately engineering / high male ratio college but had a hockey team seen as the athletic cool guys who apparently she hooked up and dated a few before they were together, so maybe she's having fantasies/flashbacks about that. He a great guy but not a college athlete type.

I told him to start acting out of strength and flipping his mindset that he's the prize and she's crazy if she leaves him. Stop being weak and making excuses about "just being friends" and "helping her friend out with a breakup". She's cheating and lying, and he needs to recognize and accept that and act accordingly.

Also to try to release control. It's gonna be her journey and he can't force her to do anything - if she's going to PA he can't stop it. He has to focus on himself.

I'm honestly not sure what to say about how to deal with the calling and texting of the EA. He's seen phone logs and spied on texts, and knows it's more than friends. It reminds me so much of where I was went I took my son away with them during the period right after my BD where I knew my then-W was texting her coworker inappropriately. But...does he tell her to stop? He can't control her. But if he doesn't does he then just go along and accept it? That's weak. She knows he knows she's talking to a "friend" and they both now at a minimum it's crossing a line. They've talked about it. And he's had check ins with her about it, which I told him to stop.

Honestly the two of them...he's a high performer engineer for an aerospace company and she's a PA for a medical organization. Just estimating but they must make $300-400k between them, have two wonderful children in grade school (around my kids age maybe a year or two older), beautiful home in the suburbs of a big city. No abuse, no drugs, no money issues...etc. It's this seemingly idyllic two kids and a picket fence life which most dream of, but as we know around here that doesn't matter. I just hate to see things blow up. It'd be a tragedy for everyone involved, him, the kids, and (imo) even her.
Hello BL

Originally Posted by BL42
Well today he texted asking if I can talk tonight after the kids go to bed. My gut tells me this is not a good sign.

I think that’s a good sign. Your friend is ready and wants to talk. Getting things off one’s chest and out in the open is a good step.

Your friend is displaying trust in you with his willingness to open up and confide.

Originally Posted by BL42
Any advice on what else to tell him?

Usually the best thing one can do is listen. Let him talk and tell you what he will.

Remain mostly neutral. He will be emotionally charged and hurt, and will feel and say all kinds of things. And as I’ve said so very often, feelings are fleeting. What he feels right now is not forever. Validate his feelings while not painting yourself into that position, for when his feelings change what about your’s. Speak more from values and rational positions, and only a little and gently. You, of course, ain’t going to solve this situation, he just needs to talk. That’s what I mean by neutral.


Something I received from a good friend after bomb drop (She herself received when her husband went off the rails. I altered it to read for a husband, original was for her.):


1)It’s too soon to tell.

It's too soon to tell if this is a good thing or a bad thing. If it's forever over or just a temporary split. You are just at the start of a process. Don't judge it or you or her too harshly. Don't analyze and awfulize this every minute of every day. It's too soon to tell what it all means and how it all ends.


2) Be the hero of your life story, not the victim of it.

That's up to you. No one can make you a victim without your permission. You don't need her to be the villain and you the victim. That doesn't help anyone, especially your children.


3.) This woman will always be the mother of your children.

Your children need to hear you speak kindly and lovingly of their mom. If you need to bash her and vent, do so when they are not around. They share her DNA. They don't want to feel they, too, are the bad guys.


4) Appoint yourself CEO of your joy.

It is no one else's job to make you happy. Period. Maybe she did for a while, maybe she never did. Doesn't matter. It's up to you to build a life of joy no matter what life hands you. See it through the eyes of gratitude. You can survive without her. You can't survive without you.


5) Create a 9-1-1 list of people to help.

Put their names and cell phone numbers on an index card you carry with you at all times. Ask them to be "on-call" to lend you an ear, a shoulder, a tissue, an old plate to break in an empty parking lot, the number for a good attorney. Create your own support Dream Team of the most positive people you know.


6) No playing bad home movies.

It's tempting to drift back in time and replay all the times she hurt you or loved you like crazy, which can make you feel crazy now. Stay present. Stay put in this day.


7) Pray for the serenity to accept the things you can't change.

If she had an affair, you can't change that. If she is in love with someone else, you can't change that. If she can't be talked out of the divorce, you can't change that. Acceptance means you align yourself with what is and start from there.


8) Breathe.

Just pause and breathe. Take a deep breathe and count slowly to six. Exhale slowly as you count to six. The slower you breathe, the more you will feel calm. Breathe in the love of God; breathe out the love of God. There is a place of peace inside of you -- find it. It is there. It's like the centerpiece in the snow globe. She shook your snow globe and all the pieces went flying, except for the core of you. No one -- no one -- has the power to shake that.


9) Nothing you want is upstream.

I love that line. Stop strugglng. Stop swimming against the current. Stop forcing yourself on life and insisting it change. Turn and go with the flow. A God who loves you is in charge of this flow. Trust where the current is taking you. It's somewhere better. Trust me. Better yet, trust you.


10) The best is yet to come.

As good as she was, you deserve better. You deserve the best. If this relationship is truly over, then she must not have been the best. She was a dress rehearsal. Maybe she was a great appetizer or the salad course. But she wasn't the main dish. And she sure wasn't the dessert. The next relationship will be even more life enriching and life affirming. Tell the Universe, "I am ready for my perfect good." Include your children in that perfect good. Keep your heart wide open and be ready for it to fill up with even greater love.




Hmmm. When I first got this list almost five years ago, I had troubles accepting it. I could see the wisdom and could somewhat believe in it. Today, looking it up, and reading it to forward for you - this list is spot on. Each of those nuggets is true.

I hope this helps.

D
Originally Posted by Bl42
I'm honestly not sure what to say about how to deal with the calling and texting of the EA. He's seen phone logs and spied on texts, and knows it's more than friends. It reminds me so much of where I was went I took my son away with them during the period right after my BD where I knew my then-W was texting her coworker inappropriately. But...does he tell her to stop? He can't control her. But if he doesn't does he then just go along and accept it? That's weak. She knows he knows she's talking to a "friend" and they both now at a minimum it's crossing a line. They've talked about it. And he's had check ins with her about it, which I told him to stop.
I'd tell him to stop pretending everything's okay. She's cake-eating, enjoying him while trying OM on for size. She's a human being, and his co-parent, but not currently his partner. Avoid venting, proclamations, and attempts to control her. Do set boundaries around his own behaviors. E.g., does he want to sleep with someone cheating on him? Does he want to sleep next to her? Begin thinking about what's best for him and the kids instead of what's best for their former family unit. Talk to an attorney to protect his finances and custody. He sounds like someone who needs to find where his sack is.

Take the energy he was putting into her and put it into his kids and GAL and 180s. If any of this triggers her to talk about the issues that led her to want to leave the relationship, which likely predated the affair, LISTEN AND VALIDATE. If he agrees, consider adding those as 180s, maybe to save the marriage or maybe for the next relationship he has.

Get into IC (or chat with you more) to work through his feelings. So many people make rash choices in these situations fueled by either anger or fear. It's incredibly challenging when you don't fully control the outcome.
I would probably just listen and validate before you jump into the “do this do that “ “this is what it will look like” speeches.

I know men are fixers though. But he does need to process
I agree with Ginger. Let him talk, give him support, let him know you have his back and you are here for him no matter what.
Appreciate all the feedback on my friend. It was a bit of a false alarm in a way. Based on the way he reached out I was bracing myself for some significant negative news (confirmed PA, separation...etc.), but it's not as bad as that.

He told me they're in MC where she's said she's dedicated to working on it, she to him she stopped communications with her EA, and things seemed better than a few weeks ago. So that's potentially good. However, he also said they fought a few times on vacation to the point her mom asked what was going on in the condo and his W asked him to stop the car and let her out once (with the kids in it), plus she told him she's mad he won't let her talk to the "friends" she wants to.

So...based on those fights and the stories we've all read on this board I'm not convinced she's being honest about being all-in to work on things through MC or to stopping EA communications. But I also don't want to see everything through the lens of my sitch and the board stories and over concern/coach him either. I told him to listen/validate/empathize with her rather than logic/reasoning/fixing, and to hit the gym and do things for himself.

Hopefully they work through this. Hopefully he's not being too weak or naïve and underestimating the seriousness of the situation. But time will tell...
It is all bull$hit, she is in the entitlement mode. She is throwing tantrums like a little child. It was not a false alarm, not by a long shot. The only reason she agreed to MC is that she will have an excuse. "I tried" she will say, "but it just confirmed that we should part" will be the second half of the statement.

I bet I know who the "friend" is she isn't allowed to call. You friend did the right thing setting boundaries, but I am afraid it is too little too late. She's off the rails and the $hitshow is about to start. Your friend can't do anything to revert the course, he should focus on himseld, the kids and GAL, the wife will do as she pleases, there is no stopping her.

I hope I am wrong, but I see all the classical signs.
Yep. Game on. It wouldn’t hurt him to consult a lawyer at this point. I would bet my bank account the ea is underground.
Hey BL...

I dunno...she has stated that she wants to work in it...

Typically, if it smells like dog schidt, looks like dog schidt...it's probably dog schidt...

You are only hearing one side of the story though....

What also jumps out at me is that he laid a hard boundary about her talking with friends about this.

What friends ?

If it isn't the EA friend, then what is so different than him talking with you about it ?


The vacation arguments....???



Here's what a WAS would think....

SHE wants and maybe expects things to be different than what she wanted to get away from....

HE wants things to go back to normal....



A WAS/MLCer will never return to a situation they were trying to escape from...



So I dunno....

I always try to lead these situations toward trying to reconcile, rather than not...

DBing says to applaud the positive, from this day forward....

IF it blows up in his face ??

Yea...would any of us be here and be different without that catalyst for change?


I would coach him to see himself more clearly, and his role in wanting to see why she was planning the great escape, rather than coaching to ring a bell that can't be UN-rung....

Be a true friend to him , and tell him the truth. He has things that he could do differently too, and shoulders his 50% of this.
Woah, slow down LH and Vapo! She says she wants to stop communication and is dedicated to work on it, and you are all like “BS”

So basically if she says she won’t stop or she says she will and will work on it, she is screwed?!

I’m sure all we have seen here we assume the worst. But let’s take this for face value for a minute .

Read what Mach said. Gold.


Has anyone asked what might have prompted the EA? There is nothing that makes it OK, but what is not going well in the M that needs to be 180’d?

Why was there fights and yelling on this trip? Was it more of the same BS ? How’s the communication in this M?

Don’t believe her and get a lawyer ? Even I wouldn’t say that
Come on G you are smarter than that and no it doesn't work that way. She lost attraction and it's not going to magically comeback right away. I know in your mind it's the LBS fault and yes I am sure he wasn't perfect and has some 180s to work on.

I agree with what Mach said but it doesn't hurt to consult a lawyer and get your ducks in a row.
Ginger, did you not read that the wife was upset, because she was not "allowed" to talk to her "friend"? If this is not a clear indicator what's going on, then I do not know what is.

If they are serious about MC, then there can be NO CONTACT with the EA, or that just resets the clock. 95% of time the temptation will be too great to avoid the lure of the contact and the circle revolves once again.

My Ex said that se tried to break it off with the OM more than 40 times, but the "butterflies" were just too strong. Our kids were 4 and 2 at the time. Needles to say I was in a special kind of hell back then.

Am I biased from my own situation? Sure. Is there a chance I am wrong about BL friend's situation? Sure. But this experience of mine gave me a couple of super powers (I am practically an Avenger), and two of them are 1, a gift to smell buII$hit from 30 miles and second is a MLC detector, I can spot people in MLC faster than a labrador devouring a hot dog.

And Mach, I could not disagree with him more. He want's to give the wife the benefit of the doubt. Fine, but too little, too late. The wife has checked out.

Men are fixers. BL's friend will try to "fix" things, shower the wife with attention, flowers, romance, but that will just piss her off further. While it is true that the bears some responibility for the situation, and he should own his part in the troubles, he should focus on his children, his sanity and his work.
“Friends” was not specified.

Well, I guess then that’s it. She’s likely not telling the truth so just be done ? I’m confused .


And if he does want to fix it, he has to look at his role. Male or female, you have to look at your role.

So maybe advice should be given on him wanting to work it out ?
Originally Posted by Vapo
And Mach, I could not disagree with him more. He want's to give the wife the benefit of the doubt. Fine, but too little, too late. The wife has checked out.

You don't know that she is checked out.....

You don't know the friend is the EA...

None of us know that....

Saying that, is speculative, unless of course YOU are this man's wife....

And yes, the benefit of doubt in any situation where the WAS says that she wants to work on a marriage, and her actions show that she is willing to be in a family setting in order to do that.

But hey....yea, she's checked out....
The "friend" she was referring to was obviously the EA guy; my buddy isn't trying to control her from talking to her girlfriends. My hope is she's being sincere about MC and cutting off contact, but my gut says LH and Vapo are right. My spidey sense is tingling, saying he's naïvely projecting his desire for things to be better onto his sitch, but hopefully I'm just biased and jaded from my own sitch and he's right. Time will tell. In the meantime I'm trying to coach him a bit on listening/empathizing instead of debating logically / fixing, as well as working on himself. According to him her parents background wasn't necessarily happy but they stayed together, so maybe that's a better model than if he parents had multiaaple affairs/Ds and will give her a bit more pause on pulling any triggers.
Originally Posted by BL42
The "friend" she was referring to was obviously the EA guy; my buddy isn't trying to control her from talking to her girlfriends. My hope is she's being sincere about MC and cutting off contact, but my gut says LH and Vapo are right. My spidey sense is tingling, saying he's naïvely projecting his desire for things to be better onto his sitch, but hopefully I'm just biased and jaded from my own sitch and he's right. Time will tell. In the meantime I'm trying to coach him a bit on listening/empathizing instead of debating logically / fixing, as well as working on himself. According to him her parents background wasn't necessarily happy but they stayed together, so maybe that's a better model than if he parents had multiaaple affairs/Ds and will give her a bit more pause on pulling any triggers.

Mine does too....

It tells me that everything isn't on the table, and it wants to tell him to bail...

Thing is...

Blowing it all to He!! has ONE outcome....


The other stuff will give him more available options...
MAch,

I do hope you are right and I do so hope I am wrong. But at least two of Sandy's rules say to watch the actions, not words. Trust nothing what the MLC'er says and only half of what he/she does.

It has been a while since I last glanced over them (immensly valuable though) but I also seem to remember that one states if the MLCer is sincere then he/she must commit fully and there has to be total disclosure and no secrets kept from the LBS. That means all passwords, mail accounts, phones, computers, tablets must be unlocked at all times. But as we all know, MLC'er will find a way to continue the ilicit affair.

Also I think it is important for the LBS to be aware of the monster task ahead. This situation is not something that some silly putty will fix. This is a life changing event. Nothing will be as it once was.
Originally Posted by Vapo
MAch,

I do hope you are right and I do so hope I am wrong. But at least two of Sandy's rules say to watch the actions, not words. Trust nothing what the MLC'er says and only half of what he/she does.

It has been a while since I last glanced over them (immensly valuable though) but I also seem to remember that one states if the MLCer is sincere then he/she must commit fully and there has to be total disclosure and no secrets kept from the LBS. That means all passwords, mail accounts, phones, computers, tablets must be unlocked at all times. But as we all know, MLC'er will find a way to continue the ilicit affair.

Also I think it is important for the LBS to be aware of the monster task ahead. This situation is not something that some silly putty will fix. This is a life changing event. Nothing will be as it once was.


Thing is....I agree with you about all of that....

Just that now may not be the time. Her actions, by going on this trip, kinda matched her words in MC....

And exactly how many MLCers have agreed to ...

A- go to marriage counseling

B-participate in marriage counseling once they went

C-verbalize their desire to work on the marriage in marriage counseling


That, more than anything, is driving my advice...


Make sense ???
Lol. You guys are hilarious. Blowing it all to hell. I know detach, GAL, 180 and his marriage will be restored lol.
Follow the actions, not the words. She's taking action which backs up her words.

Marriage counseling - in my experience, the first few months of marriage counseling things tend to get much worse, not better. It does eventually get better, if both parties hang in and work on it and the MC is pro-marriage.

BL, just be there for your friend. You know the drill.
How are you doin BL ???
Mach1,

Appreciate you checking in. I'm doing alright. No major updates in the last month, but there were a few minor incidents which got me emotional or worked up:

  • ExFIL Involvement - My parents and I have maintained a cordial to friendly relation with ExFIL (not at all ExMIL) considering the sitch, trying to keep him involved with S7 and D3, because he's being left out to an extent on ExW's side with ExMIL getting top billing. So on a Thurs on my week before the kids went on vacation with ExW, OM2, ExMIL..etc the following week I let him watch the kids even though it was my mom's day. Well the day before they leave - just two days after my accommodation - he's texting and calling me about how he wants to come over and see the kids before vacation, but it wasn't a good day because I had activities planned and D3 was having a rough day, so I actually invited him to two of the activities later. But those didn't work for him so instead he showed up to my house unannounced and without me saying OK! Just to give the kids gifts before they left (which he could've easily done just two days prior). Now, understood he's anxious about his role and ExW's ExMIL favoritism but thought that was very inappropriate. I guess I need to really consider better boundaries and how to approach things going forward. I'd like to balance keeping him involved because he loves the kids and is good with them against feeling taken advantage of and being walked all over.
  • Friend's Wedding - I mentioned this previously, but attended a college buddy's second wedding. He and his Ex (who I also knew from college) attended my wedding pregnant with their second child and then a year or two later divorced, so similar to my timeline in age of kids. Anyway, I was fine overall at my first wedding post-BD but did get emotional and teared up seeing his kids walk down the aisle to a wedding ceremony which didn't involve their mother (though this woman was not an "AP/OW", they met well after the D). But it made me think of my kids living with OM2 and potentially being involved in a wedding of their mother in the future. Not the family home life I had envisioned for my kids.
  • Swim Lessons - ExW & I agreed the kids would take swim lessons at the club which I'm a member of. They're constantly swimming in pools and lakes and oceans so they're very comfortable and good in water, but we wanted some formal stroke instruction. Anyway, it's "ExW's week" but I agree to flex out of work and go to A) see the kids and B) help out because it's my club, except I couldn't make the first day because I was out of town so ExW was supposed to take them but instead she had ExMIL do it and apparently the kids fought her on it and D3 refused to get in. So the next day I meet ExFIL there in the parking lot and the kids are not dressed for swimming and had not eaten breakfast and are refusing to go (ExFIL didn't get them ready!) and I'm put in the awkward position of being of the kids having two parties to play off of, get them in the pool area and make them sit and wait it out even if they don't get in the pool. Well Wednesday & Friday it's just me and things go great - both kids have eaten, get swimsuits, participate...etc. But Thurs with ExFIl it's a challenge again. It's just tough to have so many different parties involved and different rules and expectations. So I email ExW about it in what I thought was a well crafted, thought out, reasoned explanation of what happened, what I recommend on approach...etc. purposefully trying not to be emotional or judgmental, an attempt to co-parent. However, she responds with a how dare I accuse her of being a bad mother and I need to apologize...etc. It turns out she had a rough week with the kids and they were giving her grief and my email hit at a time she was worked up. But these situations with the kids going from one parent's house to another and different grandparents each day on ExW's week...it's challenging to provide consistency of schedule, rules...etc for the kids and puts me in a tough position with them enforcing rules and expectations some times. And no one wanting to be the "bad guy" parent or grandparent (which I'm a firm/expectations/boundaries/rules parent), so I think it's tougher for me in that position. Others are buying them toys and giving them candy left and right all the time to win their favor IMO.
  • Divorced Couple Reference - In emailing about son's (minor) health issue, my ExW referenced talking to the dad of a kid who went to preschool with S7 who had a similar illness, and mentioned the kid and his mother. Now, I'm very aware this man left his wife (and mother of his three kids) and had a baby with an AP and now they're D. Now, I'm almost certain my ExW knows their situation because used to work for her former employer but was "highly encouraged" to leave as a result of his actions and now works where my W landed...they've lived parallel lives! Not sure if ExW knows I know this. Regardless, it boiled my blood to see her reference them in the email considering the affairs/divorce/broken family and our parallel sitches. I was tempted to respond with something like "Oh...I know all about this man, and what he did to his ExW/mother of his kids and how he had to leave his former employer. You two will fit in well together at new employer". But I stopped away from my email and calmed down and responded later just regarding S7's.


I've done well in taking time to process, craft out an un-emotional/un-judgmental response, and keep it business-like, so doing well in that regard of not arguing/blaming ExW and keeping things civil for co-parenting purposes, but recognize the need to do better about not letting these type of things get under my skin and rile me up in the first place. I need to work on letting it just roll off and not letting myself getting worked up. Hopefully things will continue to improve on that front over time.

On a positive note my sister is pregnant with #2 and ExW let me switch last minute one of her weekend days so the kids could travel up with me for the (impromptu) gender reveal and has agreed to let the kids attend their cousin (my nieces) birthday party on her day this Fall. So she's being reasonable on accommodating my family's events when there are scheduling conflicts.

Anyway...super excited for later this month as I'm taking the kids down the shore on vacation for two weeks straight. It'll be exhausting at times, but also tons of fun and great bonding time for me and the kids. We go to the same area every year so now they remember and are anticipating it and getting excited asking to do certain things again this year like the beach, ocean, boardwalk, mini-golf, dolphin boat ride...etc. Can not wait...I love those kiddos!
Originally Posted by BL42
Mach1,

Appreciate you checking in. I'm doing alright. No major updates in the last month, but there were a few minor incidents which got me emotional or worked up:

  • ExFIL Involvement - My parents and I have maintained a cordial to friendly relation with ExFIL (not at all ExMIL) considering the sitch, trying to keep him involved with S7 and D3, because he's being left out to an extent on ExW's side with ExMIL getting top billing. So on a Thurs on my week before the kids went on vacation with ExW, OM2, ExMIL..etc the following week I let him watch the kids even though it was my mom's day. Well the day before they leave - just two days after my accommodation - he's texting and calling me about how he wants to come over and see the kids before vacation, but it wasn't a good day because I had activities planned and D3 was having a rough day, so I actually invited him to two of the activities later. But those didn't work for him so instead he showed up to my house unannounced and without me saying OK! Just to give the kids gifts before they left (which he could've easily done just two days prior). Now, understood he's anxious about his role and ExW's ExMIL favoritism but thought that was very inappropriate. I guess I need to really consider better boundaries and how to approach things going forward. I'd like to balance keeping him involved because he loves the kids and is good with them against feeling taken advantage of and being walked all over.
  • Friend's Wedding - I mentioned this previously, but attended a college buddy's second wedding. He and his Ex (who I also knew from college) attended my wedding pregnant with their second child and then a year or two later divorced, so similar to my timeline in age of kids. Anyway, I was fine overall at my first wedding post-BD but did get emotional and teared up seeing his kids walk down the aisle to a wedding ceremony which didn't involve their mother (though this woman was not an "AP/OW", they met well after the D). But it made me think of my kids living with OM2 and potentially being involved in a wedding of their mother in the future. Not the family home life I had envisioned for my kids.
  • Swim Lessons - ExW & I agreed the kids would take swim lessons at the club which I'm a member of. They're constantly swimming in pools and lakes and oceans so they're very comfortable and good in water, but we wanted some formal stroke instruction. Anyway, it's "ExW's week" but I agree to flex out of work and go to A) see the kids and B) help out because it's my club, except I couldn't make the first day because I was out of town so ExW was supposed to take them but instead she had ExMIL do it and apparently the kids fought her on it and D3 refused to get in. So the next day I meet ExFIL there in the parking lot and the kids are not dressed for swimming and had not eaten breakfast and are refusing to go (ExFIL didn't get them ready!) and I'm put in the awkward position of being of the kids having two parties to play off of, get them in the pool area and make them sit and wait it out even if they don't get in the pool. Well Wednesday & Friday it's just me and things go great - both kids have eaten, get swimsuits, participate...etc. But Thurs with ExFIl it's a challenge again. It's just tough to have so many different parties involved and different rules and expectations. So I email ExW about it in what I thought was a well crafted, thought out, reasoned explanation of what happened, what I recommend on approach...etc. purposefully trying not to be emotional or judgmental, an attempt to co-parent. However, she responds with a how dare I accuse her of being a bad mother and I need to apologize...etc. It turns out she had a rough week with the kids and they were giving her grief and my email hit at a time she was worked up. But these situations with the kids going from one parent's house to another and different grandparents each day on ExW's week...it's challenging to provide consistency of schedule, rules...etc for the kids and puts me in a tough position with them enforcing rules and expectations some times. And no one wanting to be the "bad guy" parent or grandparent (which I'm a firm/expectations/boundaries/rules parent), so I think it's tougher for me in that position. Others are buying them toys and giving them candy left and right all the time to win their favor IMO.
  • Divorced Couple Reference - In emailing about son's (minor) health issue, my ExW referenced talking to the dad of a kid who went to preschool with S7 who had a similar illness, and mentioned the kid and his mother. Now, I'm very aware this man left his wife (and mother of his three kids) and had a baby with an AP and now they're D. Now, I'm almost certain my ExW knows their situation because used to work for her former employer but was "highly encouraged" to leave as a result of his actions and now works where my W landed...they've lived parallel lives! Not sure if ExW knows I know this. Regardless, it boiled my blood to see her reference them in the email considering the affairs/divorce/broken family and our parallel sitches. I was tempted to respond with something like "Oh...I know all about this man, and what he did to his ExW/mother of his kids and how he had to leave his former employer. You two will fit in well together at new employer". But I stopped away from my email and calmed down and responded later just regarding S7's.


First off.....

Venting ?

Or would you like thoughts ?


Originally Posted by BL
I've done well in taking time to process, craft out an un-emotional/un-judgmental response, and keep it business-like, so doing well in that regard of not arguing/blaming ExW and keeping things civil for co-parenting purposes, but recognize the need to do better about not letting these type of things get under my skin and rile me up in the first place. I need to work on letting it just roll off and not letting myself getting worked up. Hopefully things will continue to improve on that front over time.

As long as you craft it without having any expectations that anything will actually change.....today...


It may work down the road, it may not...

As much as I tried those things, I found that emailing the Pope was a more productive waste of words.

I would liken what you are actually doing as "parallel parenting" instead of a co-parenting thing. I see that YOU want to co-parent, yet she and your ex-out in laws have their plan, and are sticking to it hell or high water.

I think your frustration may be coming from that...







Originally Posted by BL
On a positive note my sister is pregnant with #2 and ExW let me switch last minute one of her weekend days so the kids could travel up with me for the (impromptu) gender reveal and has agreed to let the kids attend their cousin (my nieces) birthday party on her day this Fall. So she's being reasonable on accommodating my family's events when there are scheduling conflicts.

F'ing awesome.....

It's the little things that you can agree on that may lead to co-parenting down the road...

No score keeping, just "this is really what is best for OUR children....

Not yours...

Not hers...

YOURS....

She might not see this, especially if your exMIL is like she is....

Just keep doing 'good' and it won't matter what the other side is doing, at least you will have the peace of mind that you are doing good....



Originally Posted by BL
Anyway...super excited for later this month as I'm taking the kids down the shore on vacation for two weeks straight. It'll be exhausting at times, but also tons of fun and great bonding time for me and the kids. We go to the same area every year so now they remember and are anticipating it and getting excited asking to do certain things again this year like the beach, ocean, boardwalk, mini-golf, dolphin boat ride...etc. Can not wait...I love those kiddos!


I'm pumped for ya man.....

First time with just you ???
Mach1,
Originally Posted by Mach1
First off.....

Venting ?

Or would you like thoughts ?
A little venting for sure, but mostly open to thoughts and advice - that's why I'm here!

Originally Posted by Mach1
I would liken what you are actually doing as "parallel parenting" instead of a co-parenting thing. I see that YOU want to co-parent, yet she and your ex-out in laws have their plan, and are sticking to it hell or high water.

I think your frustration may be coming from that...
IMO it's in the best interest of the kids to have as much of a consistent/united front in parenting, especially with them being so young. We've done relatively "alright" considering the situation - no major fights in front of the kids or parental alienation or anything like that - but there are definitely frustration points. It's a lot harder to say "you have to go to swim lessons" or "you can't eat candy before dinner" or "you have to do your school assignments to avoid the Summer slide" when they don't hear the same message on the other side.

Originally Posted by Mach1
Just keep doing 'good' and it won't matter what the other side is doing, at least you will have the peace of mind that you are doing good....
Good point. All my decisions and actions throughout this process have gone through the lens of "what's best for the kids", regardless of Ex. I'm at peace knowing I've done right by them.

Originally Posted by Mach1
I'm pumped for ya man.....

First time with just you ???
Thanks! It's actually the third Summer taking them without ExW (kids were S4/D1 when she left), but my family goes as well so it's not just me alone; I'll have support. ExW went many Summers as well and liked it, or at least seemed to. We used to take family photos there and when my ExW was pregnant we picked out my daughter's name during a walk on the beach and wrote it out in sand to make the announcement. Then-S4 told my mom awhile back..."I don't get it Grandma. Mommy would like this." He couldn't understand why she wouldn't want to be there. What a heartbreaker.
Originally Posted by BL42
IMO it's in the best interest of the kids to have as much of a consistent/united front in parenting - but there are definitely frustration points. It's a lot harder to say "you have to go to swim lessons" or "you can't eat candy before dinner" or "you have to do your school assignments to avoid the Summer slide" when they don't hear the same message on the other side.
At +12yrs after divorce, this causes me minimal frustration. You and your ex may encourage an overarching code of ethics, but your S7 already doubtless follow different rules when attending church or school than they do on the playground with friends. As long as you're respectful of your ex's rules when they're at you're ex's, and your ex is respectful of your rules when they're at your place, that's usually enough barring abuse or neglect. My simple refrain is the following: "You follow mom's rules at mom's place and dad's rules at home." D3 I could see being more difficult. That's young for such variation!

Often we create rules because it's what we learned growing up or we believe we need to encourage good behavior. Your ex allowing candy before dinner is a perfect example. When your kids eat a few M&Ms before dinner at your ex's, does chaos ensure--e.g., they eat only half their food and skip their vegetables? Maybe the rule isn't needed. Every kid's different. I sometimes try dropping a rule and see what happens. If it doesn't work out I add it back and explain why.
Originally Posted by BL42
A little venting for sure, but mostly open to thoughts and advice - that's why I'm here!


I'm learning to ask....never know when one might find themself in the 'Notification' thread ....

Sigh...




Originally Posted by B
  • ExFIL Involvement - My parents and I have maintained a cordial to friendly relation with ExFIL (not at all ExMIL) considering the sitch, trying to keep him involved with S7 and D3, because he's being left out to an extent on ExW's side with ExMIL getting top billing. So on a Thurs on my week before the kids went on vacation with ExW, OM2, ExMIL..etc the following week I let him watch the kids even though it was my mom's day. Well the day before they leave - just two days after my accommodation - he's texting and calling me about how he wants to come over and see the kids before vacation, but it wasn't a good day because I had activities planned and D3 was having a rough day, so I actually invited him to two of the activities later. But those didn't work for him so instead he showed up to my house unannounced and without me saying OK! Just to give the kids gifts before they left (which he could've easily done just two days prior). Now, understood he's anxious about his role and ExW's ExMIL favoritism but thought that was very inappropriate. I guess I need to really consider better boundaries and how to approach things going forward. I'd like to balance keeping him involved because he loves the kids and is good with them against feeling taken advantage of and being walked all over.


I would imagine that YOUR version of what's best and their version are two different things...

And while YOU expect the same level of devotion and concern over things happening on time, being ready on time, etc....

their version happens on THEIR time, not yours or the kids....

Maybe you are expecting too much ?

Unspoken expectations are resentments waiting to happen ya know....


Tell him that you would like for him to spend as much time as possible, yet he has got to play things the way you need them to be....


Originally Posted by B
  • Friend's Wedding - I mentioned this previously, but attended a college buddy's second wedding. He and his Ex (who I also knew from college) attended my wedding pregnant with their second child and then a year or two later divorced, so similar to my timeline in age of kids. Anyway, I was fine overall at my first wedding post-BD but did get emotional and teared up seeing his kids walk down the aisle to a wedding ceremony which didn't involve their mother (though this woman was not an "AP/OW", they met well after the D). But it made me think of my kids living with OM2 and potentially being involved in a wedding of their mother in the future. Not the family home life I had envisioned for my kids.

Yep. that potential certainly exists....


It's one of the downfalls, and emotional triggers that happen....

Feel it and work through it...

However don't get stuck trying to predict future feelings....it won't serve you well, and usually they don't always play out the way we have seen them in our heads....








Originally Posted by B
  • Swim Lessons - ExW & I agreed the kids would take swim lessons at the club which I'm a member of. They're constantly swimming in pools and lakes and oceans so they're very comfortable and good in water, but we wanted some formal stroke instruction. Anyway, it's "ExW's week" but I agree to flex out of work and go to A) see the kids and B) help out because it's my club, except I couldn't make the first day because I was out of town so ExW was supposed to take them but instead she had ExMIL do it and apparently the kids fought her on it and D3 refused to get in. So the next day I meet ExFIL there in the parking lot and the kids are not dressed for swimming and had not eaten breakfast and are refusing to go (ExFIL didn't get them ready!) and I'm put in the awkward position of being of the kids having two parties to play off of, get them in the pool area and make them sit and wait it out even if they don't get in the pool. Well Wednesday & Friday it's just me and things go great - both kids have eaten, get swimsuits, participate...etc. But Thurs with ExFIl it's a challenge again. It's just tough to have so many different parties involved and different rules and expectations. So I email ExW about it in what I thought was a well crafted, thought out, reasoned explanation of what happened, what I recommend on approach...etc. purposefully trying not to be emotional or judgmental, an attempt to co-parent. However, she responds with a how dare I accuse her of being a bad mother and I need to apologize...etc. It turns out she had a rough week with the kids and they were giving her grief and my email hit at a time she was worked up. But these situations with the kids going from one parent's house to another and different grandparents each day on ExW's week...it's challenging to provide consistency of schedule, rules...etc for the kids and puts me in a tough position with them enforcing rules and expectations some times. And no one wanting to be the "bad guy" parent or grandparent (which I'm a firm/expectations/boundaries/rules parent), so I think it's tougher for me in that position. Others are buying them toys and giving them candy left and right all the time to win their favor IMO.


Like I said above, people aren't going to parent the same as you....

You're gonna have Disney parents through their lives now, in buckets....

People are gonna "feel" bad for them, because they've believed a side of the story that isn't quite true, and are sorry that the kids have to go through this....

Mind you, not enough to GAF when it was happening, yet they console the best they can after the fact...

It really is a mind F...

One thing that helped me was to realize that there were "her" weeks, and "my" weeks with them...

And once I kinda learned the 'parallel' side of things....I would typically back away from things and let her lead them, regardless what else was happening. And I would allow myself to be a little more flexible through those times.

Maybe just either fully take charge and change weeks of custody, or be prepared for any craziness that may happen on those weeks....

It's not always gonna look like you think it will....

So maybe "Boy Scout' creed it......be prepared....


Originally Posted by B
  • Divorced Couple Reference - In emailing about son's (minor) health issue, my ExW referenced talking to the dad of a kid who went to preschool with S7 who had a similar illness, and mentioned the kid and his mother. Now, I'm very aware this man left his wife (and mother of his three kids) and had a baby with an AP and now they're D. Now, I'm almost certain my ExW knows their situation because used to work for her former employer but was "highly encouraged" to leave as a result of his actions and now works where my W landed...they've lived parallel lives! Not sure if ExW knows I know this. Regardless, it boiled my blood to see her reference them in the email considering the affairs/divorce/broken family and our parallel sitches. I was tempted to respond with something like "Oh...I know all about this man, and what he did to his ExW/mother of his kids and how he had to leave his former employer. You two will fit in well together at new employer". But I stopped away from my email and calmed down and responded later just regarding S7's.



Yea, you kinda set your own ass on fire there....

For me ? It's simple....

You do not parent with them....

They are the second for any information.

AND....

If it involves YOUR children, then they either abide by the plan that you have in motion for them ( on your weeks), or they can loose the PRIVILEDGE of spending time with them on your weeks...


: )


Strength and Honor BL.....and some Dignity and Grace too....
Originally Posted by Mach1
I'm learning to ask....never know when one might find themself in the 'Notification' thread ....
If you're able to abide by the Rules of Conduct job posts, your odds of being reported or reprimanded go way down. Yes, some of us report behavior that we believe violates the above.
Originally Posted by Traveler
Originally Posted by Mach1
I'm learning to ask....never know when one might find themself in the 'Notification' thread ....
If you're able to abide by the Rules of Conduct job posts, your odds of being reported or reprimanded go way down. Yes, some of us report behavior that we believe violates the above.
Just remember that “snitches get stiches” lol
Originally Posted by Traveler
Originally Posted by Mach1
I'm learning to ask....never know when one might find themself in the 'Notification' thread ....
If you're able to abide by the Rules of Conduct job posts, your odds of being reported or reprimanded go way down. Yes, some of us report behavior that we believe violates the above.


Funny that I didn't use names, yet you found it as me singling you out....

And remember when you are doing your 'civic duty' to these boards, that you are the one who chose to come at me sideways...

I've read your threads, and IF I valued your opinion more, then I could possibly be offended.

Let's do this...

You stay in your lane, and I will stay in mine...

And if either of us chooses for that to be different, then we do it on one of our threads instead of hijacking another person's thread....
Originally Posted by Mach1
I've read your threads, and IF I valued your opinion more, then I could possibly be offended.
Spit my coffee lol.
Originally Posted by Mach1
Funny that I didn't use names, yet you found it as me singling you out....
Mach1, you're transparent--I'm the only person who's reported someone in the new Notifications thread and you've been beating your dead horse about it since that day five weeks ago. For example:

Originally Posted by "Mach1, July 1st"
I saw somewhere that someone was a 'victim' of Cyberbullying .....really ?
PS - I am no victim.

PSS - Andrew was secretly reported elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Mach1
You stay in your lane, and I will stay in mine...
Groovy! Then this is dropped. Supporting members, especially newcomers, is why I visit each day. (:
Yo! Casper the Friendly Ghost! I'll be seeing you on your thread.

Reporting goes two ways.
Originally Posted by Mach1
never know when one might find themself in the 'Notification' thread ....

There’s a notification thread???? I had no idea. We have a notification thread but no edit button. Hmmmmmm wonder if I should notify someone using said notification thread about this? I mean, just a thought. LOL
Originally Posted by DonH
Originally Posted by Mach1
never know when one might find themself in the 'Notification' thread ....

There’s a notification thread???? I had no idea. We have a notification thread but no edit button. Hmmmmmm wonder if I should notify someone using said notification thread about this? I mean, just a thought. LOL
Don you should read it because it’s very entertaining. It’s where posters try to remove you from the board when they don’t like the truth. Quite frankly I’m surprised you are not mentioned in there lol.
Just returned from a fantastic two week vacation down the shore with the kiddos. Idyllic weather 75-80 and sunny almost every day, and we did it all...beach, ocean, boardwalk, mini-golf, arcade, dolphin boat cruise, zoo, water ice & ice cream...etc. It was exhausting taking two young kids to the beach, but also a blast and perfect bonding experiences. Making wonderful memories and traditions with them.

The kids are embracing the ocean and I was loving being in there with them. D3 knows no fear and was jumping over waves her height and diving under waves twice her height, and swimming probably deeper than she should in the ocean. S7 mastered the boogie board this year and was riding waves all day, even with some boys his age we met there. He also had some cool moments seeing his favorite animal in person for the first time at the zoo, hitting a hole-in-one on the trick 18th hole at the mini-golf place which set off alarms and he won a special token/free game, and popping a balloon with every single dart to win a large stuffy.

D3 did have a few meltdowns. She seems to spin emotionally and can't settle down. So hard to know whether it's regular 3-4yo stuff (but it seems extreme) or whether the D and all the associated back and forth is a big factor.

Also, I did notice lots of other families there vacationing at our beach spot who all seemed to be coupled up - not sure there are any other single parents there - it would sure be nice to have a partner to share in the experience and lighten the load. But out of my control. I also thought back to times when ExW & I were on the same beach with then S4 / D1, even naming D there on a walk before she was born. That seems like ages ago now due to everything that has transpired, but really wasn't all that long ago. But a few occasions of sadness didn't soil the trip which was great overall.

Saturday when I dropped the kids off at ExW's, OM2 was out in the yard working on the house. It still riles me up to see him around. I know it shouldn't, but I'm just not there yet, and I drove away spinning a bit emotionally. Also that night after the buzz/high of the two week vacation activities the quiet and loneliness of my house felt like a bit of a low and none of my friends were available to hang out so that got me a bit down.

However, Sunday I met my buddy and his wife and some friends of theirs at a local music fest with with tons of bands in various locations in a neighborhood which was a lot of fun. I saw random neighbors, co-workers, and friends, and did a good bit of socializing. That broke my funk from the night before. What I thought would be a 2-3 hour event turned into 6-7 with me feeling reinvigorated. Good times.

He also mentioned he's planning to set me up with a friend's SIL is a doctor and single mom with a 4-5yo daughter who lives in town and looked pretty cute from the picture. So that would be cool. Though I've heard about a half dozen set ups in the past year and none of them have come to fruition so...time will tell if anything comes of it. I deleted all my OLD profiles 2-3 months ago because it wasn't serving me well and I'm glad for the break there, but at some point may start anew.

Anyway, back to the grind at work today and bracing for the school year and Fall sports. As always, loving my kiddos and making them my main focus...
Wow! 2 weeks! That must have been a lot fun, and exhausting, lol. BTW, when my daughter was 3 it was meltdown city. Girls are a lot, lol. Long days, son water, playtime all the time, it gets hard to transition to having to listen when they have to listen.

I see alot of people couples up too. Is it common to be a single parent with young kids? No. So you notice it more when you see young kids around. Sounds like you did fantastic though. I didn’t even attempt vacations by myself with her at that age. Disney we did when she was 8 .

So, I have one question for you:

Taylor ham or pork roll?
The vacation you described will be locked into your kids' memories for a lifetime. Good stuff, BL. Good, good stuff!

Originally Posted by BL42
Also, I did notice lots of other families there vacationing at our beach spot who all seemed to be coupled up - not sure there are any other single parents there - it would sure be nice to have a partner to share in the experience and lighten the load. But out of my control. I also thought back to times when ExW & I were on the same beach with then S4 / D1, even naming D there on a walk before she was born. That seems like ages ago now due to everything that has transpired, but really wasn't all that long ago. But a few occasions of sadness didn't soil the trip which was great overall.

Yeah, I remember feeling that way at son's baseball and hockey games post BD/D. It was especially hard when I compared it to pre-BD life. I found it much better to just focus on the activity at hand and stay strictly in the moment.


Originally Posted by BL42
Saturday when I dropped the kids off at ExW's, OM2 was out in the yard working on the house. It still riles me up to see him around. I know it shouldn't, but I'm just not there yet, and I drove away spinning a bit emotionally. Also that night after the buzz/high of the two week vacation activities the quiet and loneliness of my house felt like a bit of a low and none of my friends were available to hang out so that got me a bit down.
I cannot imagine what it feels like to have an interloper in the home you created for your family.
I remember exh missing his scheduled time with son, so I'd end up with three weeks in a row - yay! - then then emptiness when exh came back and got the boy. The way I coped was to volunteer at a local wildlife educational facility that had long interested me. I would come home so exhausted, yet exhilarated from interacting with the animals that I only had energy to shower, have dinner and go to sleep. It was my way of coping.

Originally Posted by BL42
However, Sunday I met my buddy and his wife and some friends of theirs at a local music fest with with tons of bands in various locations in a neighborhood which was a lot of fun. I saw random neighbors, co-workers, and friends, and did a good bit of socializing. That broke my funk from the night before. What I thought would be a 2-3 hour event turned into 6-7 with me feeling reinvigorated. Good times.
Great job! I'm proud of you for getting out and GAL... it's easy to sit in the $h!t ... harder to do what you did.
Originally Posted by BL42
He also mentioned he's planning to set me up with a friend's SIL is a doctor and single mom with a 4-5yo daughter who lives in town and looked pretty cute from the picture. So that would be cool. Though I've heard about a half dozen set ups in the past year and none of them have come to fruition so...time will tell if anything comes of it. I deleted all my OLD profiles 2-3 months ago because it wasn't serving me well and I'm glad for the break there, but at some point may start anew.

Keep us posted on meetups in the wild. You know how I feel about OLD.
Originally Posted by BL42
Anyway, back to the grind at work today and bracing for the school year and Fall sports. As always, loving my kiddos and making them my main focus...
You're a great father BL ... do the kids play soccer in the fall?
Ginger1,
Originally Posted by Ginger1
Wow! 2 weeks! That must have been a lot fun, and exhausting, lol.
It was incredible...and definitely exhausting. A coworker said to me "the beach, that sounds so relaxing!" LOL!!!

Originally Posted by Ginger1
BTW, when my daughter was 3 it was meltdown city. Girls are a lot, lol. Long days, son water, playtime all the time, it gets hard to transition to having to listen when they have to listen.
Thanks for that. It's so difficult to deal with at times. I just try to be loving but strong. Hug her and reassure her but also don't give in to every demand just because she's melting down. I hope I'm doing what's best for her.

Originally Posted by Ginger1
I see alot of people couples up too. Is it common to be a single parent with young kids? No. So you notice it more when you see young kids around. Sounds like you did fantastic though.
Thanks! I appreciate your words.

Originally Posted by Ginger1
So, I have one question for you: Taylor ham or pork roll?
Hmmm...so tempted to answer that with a question of my own! But still keeping my specifics ambiguous. I see a lot of you here interact IRL. Maybe soon...

bttrfly,

Originally Posted by bttrfly
The vacation you described will be locked into your kids' memories for a lifetime. Good stuff, BL. Good, good stuff!
Thanks! Fun times and great memories. That's what it's all about, right?

Originally Posted by bttrfly
Yeah, I remember feeling that way at son's baseball and hockey games post BD/D. It was especially hard when I compared it to pre-BD life. I found it much better to just focus on the activity at hand and stay strictly in the moment.
That's part of the reason I've been volunteering to coach son's sports. The main reason is enjoying the shared experience with him and keeping even more of an "off week" presence (plus it really is fun), but it also keep's me engaged in the event and not standing on the sidelines next to ExW. I already here her laughing loud and chatting it up from the field. Don't need to be closer to that.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
I cannot imagine what it feels like to have an interloper in the home you created for your family.
It's awful. I hate it. That's probably the hardest part of this whole situation...seeing another man - a man who was with my wife while we were married - interact and have influence on my kids.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
I remember exh missing his scheduled time with son, so I'd end up with three weeks in a row - yay! - then then emptiness when exh came back and got the boy.
I think there is a bit of a high and a low. A bit like how a drug addiction is described. The high of being so busy with the kids on vacation and having so much fun for two weeks, and then...crash in an empty quiet house.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
The way I coped was to volunteer at a local wildlife educational facility that had long interested me. I would come home so exhausted, yet exhilarated from interacting with the animals that I only had energy to shower, have dinner and go to sleep. It was my way of coping.
I volunteered at a soup kitchen on Christmas last year to get my mind off missing the Holiday with the kids. Definitely GAL is key whether it's hitting the gym, or being social, or volunteering.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
Keep us posted on meetups in the wild. You know how I feel about OLD.
Time will tell! LOL. A half dozen friends have floated "set ups" over the past year but nothing's come to fruition yet. There are two women hovering a bit on social media lately DM'ing me about posts of the kids - I get the distinct sense they're interested - but not sure I am. I should probably just keep it light and go on some casual dates, but I have a tendency to look for those I see as having more serious potential.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
You're a great father BL ... do the kids play soccer in the fall?
Thanks bttrfly! I really do appreciate the kind words. This is S7's third year playing...and my third year coaching! He plays Fall/Winter/Spring and I coach his baseball team in Spring too. His first Fall in soccer they asked for any parents willing to help out so I volunteered as a way to be more present in his life...and have loved it. He even asks me (without prompting) at the end of the season if I'm going to coach next year! That will likely end at some point, so I'm taking advantage of it while it lasts.
So today would have been my 9th wedding anniversary.

I had no idea. I honestly didn't even realize. Perhaps that shows more detachment/progress? This afternoon my mom texted both me directly and our family text group about thinking of me, sadness, and a healing heart, but she'll send out quotes, prayers, and thoughts from time to time somewhat randomly so today's significance did not even register with me until a little later she texted again explicitly referencing the date and it clicked.

I didn't really feel sad or depressed. More annoyed that my mom would raise the topic with me and get me sidetracked on the topic when it hadn't even been on my radar. But I know she's hurting deeply in this process as well - not only seeing her son hurt and betrayed, but losing someone she thought was a close friend as well in my ExW - plus she obviously sent the messages out of love.

I do not long for ExW or pine for her at this point. Who knows, but my guess is if we didn't have kids I wouldn't have communicated with her for a year and a half now, maybe two. I do miss the partner and nuclear family, and I do still have anger over the betrayal and the impact to the kids. It would certainly be easier not to have to drop them off at her place and know OM2 is influencing their lives. But then if we hadn't had kids I'd miss out on S7 and D3. So how can I wish it didn't happen?

Some interesting tidbits over the past week since returning from vacation, but nothing of major significance...

Friends of mine mentioned they had an appointment with a former coworker of ExW and have other mutual friends and she mentioned ExW no longer works there but helps out occasionally teaching. Gave the impression she's still part of the team, but it's my understanding from people that would know that the team voted her off the unit and she got stuck in an undesirable assignment and was encouraged to look elsewhere. It's odd because this woman is a devoted Christian married with five girls and reached out to encourage me to work on the marriage even while ExW was having the affair...and I know they even hooked up in her office. I just brushed off my friends' "update" and didn't get into any of these details with them.

My mom had an appointment with a different former coworker who told her OM2 has gotten into trouble yet again for improper relations at work and may finally get fired this time. And I know my ExW wasn't the first time. This person claims she left that unit to get away from the "cesspool", that she knew ExW and warned her about this guy and saw her "downfall" coming. She asked my mom if she had ever seen him and said he's a scumbag and ugly and don't understand why women get with him, and that the whole unit hope he gets fired. Anyway, I told my mom I don't know what to say, that it doesn't matter now anyway, ExW is living with OM2 for a long time regardless, and that we have to look forward and not back. My mom said she just told me because "she didn't want to keep secrets; full disclosure"

So who knows. I'm in no way seeking this info out. Maybe I should be more explicit with folks I'd prefer not to know this stuff, but it is a little sensitive with my mom because she then might not be sure what she "should" tell me (e.g., kids info).

Also, for those of you who remember my awkward silent walk down the hall post-parent/teacher conference last school year. Last week we had a parent orientation at D3's preschool and we ended up sitting close to each other to share the pamphlet (one per family) and discussing plans and then afterwards talking logistics for the Fall and I ended up sharing a few videos from vacation. Part of me felt wrong or dirty interacting nicely with ExW who would betray me and breakup our family and do some of the most awful things you could do for a spouse, but again going back to the kids I suppose it's best for them we have cordial / friendly interactions when the situation calls for it.

Finally, last drop off S7 saw boys playing baseball at one of her neighbors' house and ask her if he could run over and play. D3 asked if she could too, but ExW told her the boys were playing but they could hang out with OM2's nieces (also neighbors). It did make me a bit sad they're putting down roots over there. But it is good they're developing friendships and interacting social with kids their age. So again...it's good for the kids and dad has to get over his emotions of the divorce situation.

Anyway...that's my week leading up to what would've been my 9th anniversary. I like to think I'm crushing it as a dad and making progress on myself, hopefully processing through this whole situation and "new normal".
Originally Posted by BL42
My mom had an appointment with a different former coworker who told her OM2 OM1 has gotten into trouble yet again for improper relations at work and may finally get fired this time. And I know my ExW wasn't the first time. This person claims she left that unit to get away from the "cesspool", that she knew ExW and warned her about this guy and saw her "downfall" coming. She asked my mom if she had ever seen him and said he's a scumbag and ugly and don't understand why women get with him, and that the whole unit hope he gets fired. Anyway, I told my mom I don't know what to say, that it doesn't matter now anyway, ExW is living with OM2 for a long time regardless, and that we have to look forward and not back. My mom said she just told me because "she didn't want to keep secrets; full disclosure"
^Typo above. ExW's former coworker told my mom news about OM1, not OM2.
BL42, good update. It sounds like you're realizing the LBS script villainizing OM (in this case OM2 who came after your XW was already done with the marriage) is about as productive as the WAS script villainizing LBS, whether or not there's truth to either script. There are more benefits to a cordial relationship between you and your XW.

It's okay to set boundaries on well-intentioned people telling you "downfall" stories about your XW and OM to try to make you feel better. "Thank you, but I'd prefer not to talk about XW or OM."

Originally Posted by BL42
she then might not be sure what she "should" tell me (e.g., kids info).
Is it really that complicated?
Hey 42...

I think you are right where you are supposed to be for today....

You are seeing both sides of the road, while staying on yours.

The blessings, the anger/resentment from it all.

In time, the anger will subside and the blessings will continue and eventually 'win' out.

I remember feeling very similarly, and a poster here named Bworl told me that if I didn't feel that way, then he would have more concern for me.

It's a normal part of seeing it all, before you deal with the emotions of it all....



As far as family ?

That's a razors edge my friend...

Allow what you can handle, dismiss what you can't. It's easy to forget that our families had created a relationship with our Exes also. They spent the same amount of years celebrating births, marriages, family events, etc with our past spouses.

So they have to grieve the loss of family as well, and if you throw fuel onto the Mama Bear, or Papa Bear, well....

Imagine how you feel when something threatens the well being of one of your kiddos...

You seem to have a good relationship with your family, so boundaries prolly aren't necessary, or maybe they are fairly soft.

Just a "hey, could we possibly not talk about her today? " if it isn't something you want to hear about. In time though, it will become nothing more than hearing about a neighbor or an old friend from high-school.

Keep going my friend....

All in due time....
Originally Posted by BL42
Part of me felt wrong or dirty interacting nicely with ExW who would betray me and breakup our family and do some of the most awful things you could do for a spouse
To add, your XW was certainly dastardly to you. You have every reason to initially have anger to process, to see her as a witch, to want her to face comeuppance. It's great you've moved on as much as you have.
Originally Posted by BL42
Part of me felt wrong or dirty interacting nicely with ExW who would betray me and breakup our family and do some of the most awful things you could do for a spouse, but again going back to the kids I suppose it's best for them we have cordial / friendly interactions when the situation calls for it.

I understand where you're coming from, and yes - it's always about putting the kids first.

Originally Posted by BL42
So who knows. I'm in no way seeking this info out. Maybe I should be more explicit with folks I'd prefer not to know this stuff, but it is a little sensitive with my mom because she then might not be sure what she "should" tell me (e.g., kids info).

I think boundaries are for us, even more than for the people with whom we set them. It's probably worthwhile to give some thought to what you are and are not comfortable knowing. I had to repeatedly set boundaries with my mom about my exh. In her case, it was because she lost someone she viewed as her son, not son-in-law, and didn't have any other way to really process that grief. I did have to tell her I knew where she was coming from but I couldn't be the person on the other end of the conversation helping her with that. You'll figure out what makes sense for you. I have faith.
Originally Posted by BL42
So today would have been my 9th wedding anniversary.

I had no idea. I honestly didn't even realize. Perhaps that shows more detachment/progress?

Its a great feeling when you start forgetting dates like this, especially since how much you cling to dates at the start. I'd say its great progress.

Originally Posted by BL42
I do not long for ExW or pine for her at this point. Who knows, but my guess is if we didn't have kids I wouldn't have communicated with her for a year and a half now, maybe two. I do miss the partner and nuclear family, and I do still have anger over the betrayal and the impact to the kids. It would certainly be easier not to have to drop them off at her place and know OM2 is influencing their lives. But then if we hadn't had kids I'd miss out on S7 and D3. So how can I wish it didn't happen?

Completely understand here, but my guess is the more and more time passes, the less you'll give a fk. The best revenge...its what you're doing, working on yourself, taking your time, living an awesome life and being an even more awesome dad.

How do you feel about her BL?

Originally Posted by BL42
Also, for those of you who remember my awkward silent walk down the hall post-parent/teacher conference last school year. Last week we had a parent orientation at D3's preschool and we ended up sitting close to each other to share the pamphlet (one per family) and discussing plans and then afterwards talking logistics for the Fall and I ended up sharing a few videos from vacation. Part of me felt wrong or dirty interacting nicely with ExW who would betray me and breakup our family and do some of the most awful things you could do for a spouse, but again going back to the kids I suppose it's best for them we have cordial / friendly interactions when the situation calls for it.

I know how you feel when you say it feels wrong, but taking the high road and being unaffected feels good in the long run, which you seem to have been doing. Bitter is not fun nor is it attractive.
It's been over a month and a half since my last update. Between school starting for the kids and coaching soccer, it's been a fairly busy Fall.

The biggest note is D3 is now D4! She's getting to be such a little lady. I pulled off a fantastic Tinkerbell themed party for her with banners, streamers, balloons, and fairies all over the house, and my parents and sister's family came including my niece (D4's cousin) and we got a great picture of the two of them in their Disney Tinkerbell costumes. This month my niece had a birthday party (she turned 3) and it was ballerina themed party. Very cute...but poor S7 with all the fairies and ballerinas! LOL (he's actually a really good sport about it).

I have to admit I feel a great deal of pressure/stress/anxiety sometimes pulling these events together because I feel the need to make it "perfect" for the kids, probably guilt of the D and their situation going back and forth from houses (even if it wasn't my choice). Running up to her birthday D4 had mentioned several times wanting to go back to the water park for her birthday (I took them earlier this year for my 40th), and I try to fit everything in but there were too many logistics and I just couldn't make it happen that weekend. However, I did take them this month over a school and made a big deal we were going because it was her birthday wish and we had a great time. So I got it done and she loved it. I know those feelings of pressure/stress/anxiety to make it perfect for them are going to bubble up in me come with Christmas coming up as well. I need to learn it's ok not to fit in everything and make everything "perfect" for them and just go a little easier on myself and relax a bit. It's tough to handle all aspects of parenting without a partner. There's still all the responsibilities two parents would normally share (laundry, cooking, cleaning, buying clothes, yard work, kids activities...etc.) in BOTH houses, but it's just me. Granted, my parents have been a godsend so thankfully I have support.

I traveled to Florida for work earlier this month for a leadership F2F. It was great to spend time with folks I hadn't seen in 2-3 years, and even meet several for the first time ever in person. I also had a dinner and an afternoon on site with 3 of my employees who have been working for me for several years whom I had never met in person! Between budget issues a few years ago and then COVID, it's been challenging...I didn't even know what one of the guys looked like - but immediately recognized his voice. So that was a nice trip. I had been hoping to take the kids and my parents with me and enjoy the pools and parks down there, and then fly them back with my parents, but the logistics were too much - had to let that go. It was also odd to be making travel arrangements when a Cat4 hurricane was barreling down and the governor called a state of emergency, but things were settled down by our week and things went smoothly.

I've actively avoided asking for schedule changes with ExW because I just don't want to deal with it, but couldn't avoid it with this work trip. She's been accommodating in some instances - rearranged the schedule for my work trip and let me take the kids to my niece / their cousin's birthday party - but given me some grief in other areas. She wrote me this whole scathing email about how S7 shouldn't play soccer and baseball one Saturday (even though he enthusiastically wanted to) and how he got tired and cranky later at a event she arranged. In another case pushed back on her having to bring both of his jerseys to a scrimmage - but that's what all the players do, and really how difficult is that? - meanwhile I'm coordinating the whole team and coaching several times a week. So who knows, but I just to just brush those type of emails off and not let it impact my day.

On the personal front...I grew a beard! That's a 180 for me. I've almost always been clean-shaven or a little scruff but basically just stopped shaving after returning from the beach vacation two months ago other than a little clean up on the neck and cheeks. And it was getting a little bit unwieldly so I went to a barber to shape it this weekend. It's gotten A LOT of comments, all compliments. I joked half the town's been talking about. One example is last I went over to my buddy and his fiancés place to give them a gift. I haven't seen them in awhile and when I walked in his fiancé said "Oh wow BL42, I LIKE the beard. You HAVE to keep that.", but in like a way that was just a little too enthusiastic and my buddy made a comment about her compliment like "geez, settle down" lol.

No official dating going on - I deleted my OLD app profiles several months back - but have gotten some women reaching out indirectly. One is a mom I see at school pickup and I coached her son. She friended me on SM and started messaging me, throwing compliments my way both in person and on SM such as "nice haricut BL42", "you're an incredible dad, never seen a dad so involved", asked "are you trying to make me jealous with your Florida trip?", saying "I have to admit, that beard is working for you"...etc., but my impression was she's married, so when I got back from my work trip I asked what her status was and she said "it's complicated" and she asked me why I asked, so I said "well I thought you were married, so didn't want anything inappropriate" and she responded about how weird and awkward she felt now and how she didn't mean it that way at all and that people misunderstand her (but I'm pretty sure she did) and how she was going to delete the message and start over. But now she started messaging me again. I've seen her and the father of her kid being very separate at events and obviously something is going on between them, and she's reaching out to me (and perhaps others, who knows), but I want no part of even talking inappropriately if she's still married and if "it's complicated".

Anyway...I may jump back into OLD at some point. It feels weird, but had my buddy take my picture tee'ing off yesterday because I have ten thousand pictures of the kids over the last couple years but very few of me so I'm thinking a couple of me doing activities would be good.

So that's my deal...this week will be prepping for Halloween with the kiddos.
A couple tidbits and random items I forgot...

Apparently OM2 got a brand new truck, which was actually a bit of a trigger for me at last drop off...guess I liked picturing him in that old rust bucket he had before. Also, I'm effectively paying the mortgage on the house he's living in with my ExW and kids so feels like I'm helping to pay for it in a way. I know, I know...don't let OM2 work me up.

D4 was with my mom yesterday and saw a cigarette on the street and asked what it is and told my mom she doesn't like being around OM2 when he smokes because it smells bad. She says he smokes in and out of the house. I didn't know he was a smoker. Don't like the idea of my kids living in a house with smoke, but don't think there's anything I can do about it. Hopefully it's an occasional cigar as opposed to a regular cigarette habit.

Golfed with a buddy on Sunday and the topic of our friend who had been in divorce proceedings and out of the house and actually going for primary custody based on W's actions but then reconciled and that cause some fallout with some buddies because they actually told them what they honestly thought of her...and now they're R'd (for now anyway; I'm skeptical of their long term prospects). Anyway, my buddy said he and his W were chatting about me and dreading the conversation he'd need to have with me if I ever wanted to get back with ExW. That they would have to speak up and tell me "no, absolutely not". So I asked if they ever felt that way before BD/affair out of curiosity if they'd seen any red flags but didn't speak up because we were married, and he said "No, things seemed well enough to us. It was only after the affairs and OM1/OM2 we could never let you go back to her." I told him not to worry, that there was a time I wanted to keep my family together but now that she did that and things have passed and I see the kids the majority of the time I'd never want to go back.

I've seen some friends posting pictures of them and their sons enjoying their favorite sports teams together. Stinks I can't always watch my teams with S7 regularly, especially for big games. I've done an incredible job staying as involved and present as I can with the kids considering the sitch, but still miss out on stuff.

Think I've been a bit more down recently on my relationship status. Nothing major, and trying to live my best single life, but seeing other couples and wishing to have some of that adult interaction would be nice. First swing at OLD wasn't great and the setups friends have mentioned haven't come to fruition. Went to a wine tasting event with some friends and there weren't many people there like before COVID. Think it's pretty tough for a single dad of young kids in my area, as I actually do see myself as a pretty good option with a lot of those 6s LH always mentions. I know they say people will come into your life when you least expect it, and I know the kids should be my focus anyway because they're only young once and not for long - and they area - but missing some relationship connections as well.

Anyway, just some more ramblings...
Originally Posted by BL42
One is a mom I see at school pickup and I coached her son. She friended me on SM and started messaging me, throwing compliments my way both in person and on SM such as "nice haricut BL42", "you're an incredible dad, never seen a dad so involved", asked "are you trying to make me jealous with your Florida trip?", saying "I have to admit, that beard is working for you"...etc., but my impression was she's married, so when I got back from my work trip I asked what her status was and she said "it's complicated" and she asked me why I asked, so I said "well I thought you were married, so didn't want anything inappropriate" and she responded about how weird and awkward she felt now and how she didn't mean it that way at all and that people misunderstand her (but I'm pretty sure she did) and how she was going to delete the message and start over. But now she started messaging me again. I've seen her and the father of her kid being very separate at events and obviously something is going on between them, and she's reaching out to me (and perhaps others, who knows), but I want no part of even talking inappropriately if she's still married and if "it's complicated".
BL I think you need to learn how to flirt back when someone is flirting with you. What did you say when she said "that beard is working for you"? acceptable retorts: Do you want to feel it (wink)? Great because I grew it for you (wink). You have to have the back and forth. Not "what is your status"? That's not fun and playful. Like validation "flirting" takes practice or can come off creepy. Enjoy
I think BL felt that she might be married and didn’t want to engage if she is. He didn’t feel comfortable flirting with a married woman
Originally Posted by LH19
BL I think you need to learn how to flirt back when someone is flirting with you. What did you say when she said "that beard is working for you"? acceptable retorts: Do you want to feel it (wink)? Great because I grew it for you (wink). You have to have the back and forth. Not "what is your status"? That's not fun and playful. Like validation "flirting" takes practice or can come off creepy. Enjoy
Originally Posted by Ginger1
I think BL felt that she might be married and didn’t want to engage if she is. He didn’t feel comfortable flirting with a married woman
Ginger's right. Admittedly my game could use sharpening LH, but in this particular case she's obviously flirting and I'm uncomfortable with that if she's still legally married. It's apparent something is up in her relationship, but if they're just separated and not formally divorced I'm not interested in being part of that. I do like your acceptable retorts though...I'm going to keep those in mind for future interactions (with single women).
Well I won't get into a debate on who can be and can't be flirted with but get those 6s working for you BL.
6s?
6 feet tall, 6 figure salary, six pack, 6 inch .......lol etc.
Originally Posted by BL42
I have to admit I feel a great deal of pressure/stress/anxiety sometimes pulling these events together because I feel the need to make it "perfect" for the kids, probably guilt of the D and their situation going back and forth from houses (even if it wasn't my choice). Running up to her birthday D4 had mentioned several times wanting to go back to the water park for her birthday (I took them earlier this year for my 40th), and I try to fit everything in but there were too many logistics and I just couldn't make it happen that weekend. However, I did take them this month over a school and made a big deal we were going because it was her birthday wish and we had a great time. So I got it done and she loved it. I know those feelings of pressure/stress/anxiety to make it perfect for them are going to bubble up in me come with Christmas coming up as well. I need to learn it's ok not to fit in everything and make everything "perfect" for them and just go a little easier on myself and relax a bit. It's tough to handle all aspects of parenting without a partner. There's still all the responsibilities two parents would normally share (laundry, cooking, cleaning, buying clothes, yard work, kids activities...etc.) in BOTH houses, but it's just me. Granted, my parents have been a godsend so thankfully I have support.
.


Hey 42...

I will tell you this...

It doesn't have to be perfect....

Only perfect for you..

I always wondered if I was "enough" for my kids...

And I can tell you that they do notice, and you are enough by being there and showing up.

I had a pretty detailed talk with my Son over the weekend. We talked about things, and he has been curious about life events that led him to to the man that he is becoming. And even with all that he missed by being a kid, he saw a LOT. Pretty powerful moment when he told me that watching and seeing what I had overcome to be the person that I am, and that he admired me because of who I am, and also because of who I chose NOT to be...

So I think that what we do today will pay dividends. Maybe not today or tomorrow, yet it will..

Stay YOUR course, I think you are knocking this out of the park...
Originally Posted by Mach1
Hey 42...

I will tell you this...

It doesn't have to be perfect....

Only perfect for you..

I always wondered if I was "enough" for my kids...

And I can tell you that they do notice, and you are enough by being there and showing up.

I had a pretty detailed talk with my Son over the weekend. We talked about things, and he has been curious about life events that led him to to the man that he is becoming. And even with all that he missed by being a kid, he saw a LOT. Pretty powerful moment when he told me that watching and seeing what I had overcome to be the person that I am, and that he admired me because of who I am, and also because of who I chose NOT to be...

So I think that what we do today will pay dividends. Maybe not today or tomorrow, yet it will..

Stay YOUR course, I think you are knocking this out of the park...
Mach1 - Thank you for that. I appreciate it. Reading your comment definitely gave me a boost today.
Bit of a trigger this morning...

ExW has kids for Thanksgiving this year so I dropped them off in the AM and we'll returned them tonight, but when I pulled up OM2 was backing up his brand new truck and had a smoker in the driveway prepping turkey and kids got out of the car and S7 walked towards him and D4 used his pet name to ExW. Just felt like I'm dropping off my children to this man who they see their mom and my ExW living with and being a family for a Holiday event when I'm not allowed to be with them. Yes, I need to get over it and am better most times but every once in a while it stings. It's tough being a holiday.

As DnJ would say feelings are fleeting. When straight to the gym for about 2hrs and did a 5k on the treadmill, lifted weights, and did sit ups and speed bag. Need to get more regular/dedicated there - have slacked off a bit lately - but know that'll make me mentally and physically stronger and more attractive.

Hard to believe it's been a month since my last update. Want to fill folks in on some events from and since Halloween and get some feedback on that in another post.
Originally Posted by BL42
Ginger1 - Not sure how you put up with dropping your daughter off at your Exs/OWs for so long. That must've caused you so much pain over the years. It still riles me up after a year or two. You must be a saint.
You don't have to be a saint. Once you work through the breakup, it won't "rile you up" much. Feeling "riled up" is common among the newly divorced, but it's uncommon among acquaintances and friends I know in real life divorced 5-15yrs. Some waited for time to work its magic. Others didn't see themselves improving quickly enough and turned to therapy.

Some people get trapped by their anger. Just be mindful of whether each year is easier than the last.

My feelings a bit more than a decade in? Yesterday was my Thanksgiving. My kids and I joked that our home's in a different time zone than XW's, which explains the magic for them of celebrating the holiday twice! I sent half a homemade pumpkin pie and vanilla ice cream over when my XW picked up the kids. Thu->Sun I'm kid-free. It's time for me to travel!
Traveler,

I've accepted and embraced the "observed" Holidays. For example, last year Santa came a day early and the kids woke up and opened gifts on Christmas Eve morning. He even gave them a note in advance about how he selected them to deliver to early so he could all the houses into his schedule, so that they went to bed having read "Twas the Night Before Christmas" and with all the anticipation and excitement of what would've been the "real" date. It went wonderfully actually and I didn't feel that I (or the kids) missed out at all. That aspect I've tackled and nailed with/for the kiddos.

What I was referring to about this morning was the hurt of dropping my kids off for a Holiday with OM2 in my face knowing he was involved with W while we were living together and moved in with my kids right out of the gate even while we were married. And from a very young age my children have seen him as their mom's partner and potentially a father figure that they've developed a relationship with. That is a pain I think that maybe only those who have gone through it - like Ginger - can understand. Not diminishing anything you went through, but that specific case is not something you've had to deal with as a parent.

Originally Posted by Traveler
Feeling "riled up" is common among the newly divorced, but it's uncommon among acquaintances and friends I know in real life divorced 5-15yrs.
2 years in and still some raw spots. I'm sure over time those triggers won't be as frequent or strong.

Originally Posted by Traveler
Some waited for time to work its magic. Others didn't see themselves improving quickly enough and turned to therapy. Some people get trapped by their anger. Just be mindful of whether each year is easier than the last.
Point taken, and agreed - need to make sure I'm progressing and not trapped by the anger.
i'm sorry that happened BL ... but gotta say I'm really proud of the way you handed it. Way to GAL xoxoxo
Hello BL

Yep, that’s rough. Well done not letting your feelings take over your day and ruin it. How long until they fleeted? Just curious, if you don’t mind.

I’m guessing you weren’t suspecting to see him there when you were dropping of the kids. Over the years I’ve had a few surprise face to face encounters with OM. Think of today as a test. God or the universe just tested you. And by my reckoning, you passed with flying colors!

D
Originally Posted by Traveler
Originally Posted by BL42
Ginger1 - Not sure how you put up with dropping your daughter off at your Exs/OWs for so long. That must've caused you so much pain over the years. It still riles me up after a year or two. You must be a saint.
You don't have to be a saint. Once you work through the breakup, it won't "rile you up" much. Feeling "riled up" is common among the newly divorced, but it's uncommon among acquaintances and friends I know in real life divorced 5-15yrs. Some waited for time to work its magic. Others didn't see themselves improving quickly enough and turned to therapy.

Some people get trapped by their anger. Just be mindful of whether each year is easier than the last.

My feelings a bit more than a decade in? Yesterday was my Thanksgiving. My kids and I joked that our home's in a different time zone than XW's, which explains the magic for them of celebrating the holiday twice! I sent half a homemade pumpkin pie and vanilla ice cream over when my XW picked up the kids. Thu->Sun I'm kid-free. It's time for me to travel!

I'm not trying to be negative, but CW can we tone down the self-righteousness when you're the one who made the decision to not keep your family together. Don't know anyone on here who got made that decision. Know your audience a bit mate.
BL- I am no saint by any means. I just developed coping mechanisms for survival. I knew I had a lifetime of this and I had to adapt. And I did that by learning to compartmentalize and learning how to reduce my exposure to what hurts me . Like I wouldn’t drop her off at his big get together where his wife and family was. I would actually have him come get her. Small things like that really helped. I also had the “luxury” of working my way through my holidays without her. If I didn’t have her, I worked. And my work just distracted me. And the first few years I worked night shift, so I would work a 12.5 hour the night before and just sleep through the day, so I didn’t have to deal with the pain.

But yes, I have to admit, and I can still feel it, I was in an insurmountable amount of pain anytime I had to give my child up to them especially on holidays. Worse than any physical pain that I’ve known, quite honestly. But just like anything else, it gets easier with time.

I know it’s more of sending your kids off and feeling like an outsider in your family. It’s really difficult at times and hard to explain, especially when you didn’t have a day in the matter. This was chosen for us. And it stinks and I’m sorry.

You did the right thing. Headed off to the gym and got your head clear. It’s OK to distract, we don’t have to feel everything. Distraction is a beautiful thing!
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Originally Posted by Traveler
Originally Posted by BL42
Ginger1 - Not sure how you put up with dropping your daughter off at your Exs/OWs for so long. That must've caused you so much pain over the years. It still riles me up after a year or two. You must be a saint.
You don't have to be a saint. Once you work through the breakup, it won't "rile you up" much. Feeling "riled up" is common among the newly divorced, but it's uncommon among acquaintances and friends I know in real life divorced 5-15yrs. Some waited for time to work its magic. Others didn't see themselves improving quickly enough and turned to therapy.

Some people get trapped by their anger. Just be mindful of whether each year is easier than the last.

My feelings a bit more than a decade in? Yesterday was my Thanksgiving. My kids and I joked that our home's in a different time zone than XW's, which explains the magic for them of celebrating the holiday twice! I sent half a homemade pumpkin pie and vanilla ice cream over when my XW picked up the kids. Thu->Sun I'm kid-free. It's time for me to travel!

I'm not trying to be negative, but CW can we tone down the self-righteousness when you're the one who made the decision to not keep your family together. Don't know anyone on here who got made that decision. Know your audience a bit mate.
Bent you are awesome! I read his post and got really pi$$ed and said great now I have to be an a$$hole because he can’t see the difference that he left his W when she was sick. Thanks for saving bro.

BL totally normal. Holidays are tough. I wonder if you can’t have her come pick up the kids on holidays?
it's all sunshine and rainbow skittles ...
I really like Taz' suggestion - or a neutral meet up for the next holiday hand off ...

BL, the way you're killing it I'm pretty sure that in time to come you'll not be triggered as easily.

I know that sounds far-fetched, and forgive me for the personal example, but it illustrates what I mean:

During our divorce settlement process, my H was forced to reveal a secret credit card he'd gotten at BD. It revealed a lot - including a secret trip to Hawaii. He flew there on our 21st wedding anniversary, stayed 5 days and spent over $3500. He swore up down and sideways he went alone ... and demanded that I pay for half the trip, since he was paying all my living expenses. To give you a sense of the timeline involved, BD was 4/6, our anniversary was 7/16 - three months later. Now, it's been pointed out to me recently how deeply hurtful that was, but we're 7 years out and my strongest reaction is laughter, because it strikes me as so completely ludicrous that someone would think this was ok that all I can do is laugh. I really do think it's funny, in fact when I talk about this story I often laugh so hard tears come ... but they're not the same kind of tears they were when it happened. They're tears of joy that I get to spend the rest of my life free of someone who thinks that's an acceptable thing to do. A few years back, this was a place I couldn't see myself ever getting to. My point is the most hurtful things seem to lose their sting as we heal. Doesn't mean any of the hurtful behavior is ok, ever. But it does mean that as we heal it matters less in the grand scheme of our present lives. You'll get there. I know it!
Hey BL...

Hey buddy, sorry you had a rough time with that....

Some things you just have to power through with dignity, honor , and grace....

I remember that hurt, feeling like I was an outcast in my children's lives because I felt that someone new was taking my place.

In time, it will fade. I always felt that their time with their Mother was party time, and I was the one that had to be the "asshat" because there was structure, and discipline with me. I was wasn't all Disney and fairytails..

I will tell you this, and I hope it helps...

Whatever you think that it is, it really isn't...

All the fun, and smiles, and you feeling replaceable....

It isn't real...

Your kiddos hurt not being with you the same as you hurt, and in time that will eventually reveal itself.

But is also doesn't mean that those times have to be hard. It's totally normal to miss them, and I would venture-being the kind of guy I read here- that you didn't miss them any less than you normally do during drop offs....there was just a visual reminder of what has happened.

Holidays, anniversaries, and birthdays are just normal days that we place expectations, memories, and traditions on...

How was your drop-off any different in reality compared to any other drop-off, other than the nostalgic feeling of the day ?

Probably not much...just the visual stuff with seeing him.



Try to maybe think along these lines....

They are happy when they are with her also, and they are a part of her also.....

Even though it ended, she is the reason that you have them, and find the thankfulness in that. ( and I think that you do)....

If you've been reading along on my thread, the discussions I've been having with my Son have really shown things in a new light. All of the things that I "thought" were happening, in reality, were not happening.....

I felt as though Dr Giggles was this strong presence in their lives, which in fact, he really hasn't been.


He told me that he merely tolerates him, and he is quite the pompous ass when he isn't being told exactly what to do by my Ex.....and that his Sister feels the same way. He is a by-product of being around their Mother....

Yet, I am Dad....and nothing takes priority over that....


So don't believe the lies that your mind tells you, it will eventually be different than what you think that it is....

You are rockin this schidt buddy.... just be you, and just be Dad....they know....
I agree. 15 years with the presence of another woman married to my my ex and there was a never a time she could remember without her in her life. And I have always, and always will be “mom” .

And you will always be dad . Always. You kicking butt and taking names.

And heck, without you saying as much, I know your kids are your number one priority FOR REAL!
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
CW can we tone down the self-righteousness when you're the one who made the decision to not keep your family together.
Originally Posted by LH
I read his post.. now I have to be an a$$hole

You don’t “have to” follow me and make judgy comments or act like an arse to use your own words—you do you. Your antics have silenced and driven away quite a few posters.

For any newbies without my backstory, before I was left behind in the relationship that brought me to this site, I took my kids and left an XW who physically abused my son. I remained a primary custody dad for over a decade. I’m not just unapologetic, I’m proud I endured the hardships to do what was right by them and proud of who they are becoming as they enter adulthood.

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Bye you two.
CW I thinks it’s great you are so forgiving that you baked a pumpkin pie for the woman who put your kid in the hospital but some prospective buddy. Betty Crocker herself would be proud. This is like Thanksgiving number 2 for BL.

I can only assume this is another false good bye but if it’s real good luck in life.
Please start a new thread.
bttrfly, DnJ, OnlyBent, Ginger1, LH19 & Mach1,

I'd be remiss if the day after Thanksgiving I didn't publicly state how thankful I am for this board and all of you. I read through your comments about my Holiday drop off trigger several times and it helped me quite a good bit.

I'm thankful for the encouragement on my progress...
Originally Posted by bttrfly
i'm sorry that happened BL ... but gotta say I'm really proud of the way you handed it. Way to GAL xoxoxo
Originally Posted by DnJ
Hello BL - Yep, that’s rough. Well done not letting your feelings take over your day and ruin it.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Think of today as a test. God or the universe just tested you. And by my reckoning, you passed with flying colors!
Originally Posted by Ginger1
You did the right thing. Headed off to the gym and got your head clear. It’s OK to distract, we don’t have to feel everything. Distraction is a beautiful thing!
Originally Posted by LH19
BL totally normal. Holidays are tough. This is like Thanksgiving number 2 for BL
Originally Posted by bttrfly
BL, the way you're killing it I'm pretty sure that in time to come you'll not be triggered as easily.
Originally Posted by Mach1
You are rockin this schidt buddy.... just be you, and just be Dad....they know....

I'm thankful for the comforting words related to my role as dad...
Originally Posted by Mach1
I will tell you this, and I hope it helps...

Whatever you think that it is, it really isn't...

All the fun, and smiles, and you feeling replaceable....

It isn't real...
Originally Posted by Mach1
Yet, I am Dad....and nothing takes priority over that....

So don't believe the lies that your mind tells you, it will eventually be different than what you think that it is....
Originally Posted by Ginger1
I agree. 15 years with the presence of another woman married to my my ex and there was a never a time she could remember without her in her life. And I have always, and always will be “mom” .

And you will always be dad . Always. You kicking butt and taking names.

I'm thankful for your questions...
Originally Posted by DnJ
Well done not letting your feelings take over your day and ruin it. How long until they fleeted? Just curious, if you don’t mind.
It hit me a bit hard on the drive back and definitely on my mind during the workout (which of course helped), and I think it lingered throughout the day and perhaps later on I was a bit down being the holiday. When my kids returned that evening I felt the love and was back in full fledge loving dad mode.

I'm thankful for the suggestions...
Originally Posted by LH19
I wonder if you can’t have her come pick up the kids on holidays?
Originally Posted by bttrfly
I really like LH's suggestion - or a neutral meet up for the next holiday hand off ...
Originally Posted by Ginger1
I wouldn’t drop her off at his big get together where his wife and family was. I would actually have him come get her. Small things like that really helped.
Will have to think on this one. Don't want to disrupt the arrangement and think I just need to get mentally stronger and deal with it, but if the trigger persists over time perhaps a consideration for the future.

I'm thankful for your empathy...
Originally Posted by Ginger1
But yes, I have to admit, and I can still feel it, I was in an insurmountable amount of pain anytime I had to give my child up to them especially on holidays. Worse than any physical pain that I’ve known, quite honestly. But just like anything else, it gets easier with time.

I know it’s more of sending your kids off and feeling like an outsider in your family. It’s really difficult at times and hard to explain, especially when you didn’t have a say in the matter. This was chosen for us. And it stinks and I’m sorry.
Originally Posted by Mach1
I remember that hurt, feeling like I was an outcast in my children's lives because I felt that someone new was taking my place.
Originally Posted by Mach1
In time, it will fade. I always felt that their time with their Mother was party time, and I was the one that had to be the "asshat" because there was structure, and discipline with me. I was wasn't all Disney and fairytails..

And also your OLD advice! ;-)
Originally Posted by Ginger1
And heck, without you saying as much, I know your kids are your number one priority FOR REAL!
Don't worry Ginger...I'll refrain from using that in my dating profile if I should ever give the apps another go!!! LOL
With the kids back, we continued a post-BD. day-after-Thanksgiving tradition and for the third year my mom came over in the morning and made "Christmas tree pancakes" for the kids dyed green for the tree and yellow for the star with M&Ms for the ornaments and whipped cream for the garland. Then my parents, the kids, and I all drove together to pick out a Christmas tree (the best one ever!, which we say each year) and decorated it and the house for the upcoming Holiday. S7 had already been asking earlier this week when are we going to do it. We also went to a local spot to grab pizza and watch the US World Cup game with our neighbors and S7 sat with his buddies the whole game - nice to observe him developing friendships in real time. Oh yeah...and the night before Thanksgiving we hit up the biggest local Holiday Light Festival, which the kids always love.

So...making the most of our Holiday time together!
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