Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: Wolfman Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/23/22 04:09 PM
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2923453&page=10

Thats the previous thread. Thank you all for the advice. I need to work on doing things without expectations. LH you are right that was a piece of why I got divorced. Its very hard I am just starting to learn about myself with that. My family growing up was all about if they did something for you you had to do something in return. I even feel weird when a friend lets say gives me a drink. I feel like I need to give them one back very soon. I can't just take something out of the goodness of their heart. My parents ingrained that in me. I really have to do that. My parents would always say to my brothers and I, I did something for you (make food, wash our clothes, drive us somewhere) that we had to do something for them. This forum has helped me realize that way of thinking is toxic.

KML & Traveler date night is a great idea. Definitely need to do those. I think that will help a lot. I mentioned to her we need to do that at least once a month. I will plan something in the next weekend or so.

There was some gym questions. Wasn't one of the things this forum talks about is going to the gym when getting divorced. It took me a while to really get back into it but I am back into it. I go 4 days a week. The gym helps with my stress and anxiety. Some days with my anger too. Overall, It just makes me feel good. I switched to the morings because she was complaining about me going after work and that taking time away from her and the baby. So, I go early so I don't lose out on that time with them. I hate the mornings especially that early but I switched for her. Every 5 or 6 weeks I also take a full week off too.

I need help with something. I would love to hear everyone's suggestions for this. If I am not intimate with my partner for a while (a month or more) I start to become very angry. I start to feel like whats wrong with me, why is she not attracted to me, it just really bothers me. How do i cope with that anger? There are times i will try and initiate and get shot down. It would just feel nice to feel wanted once and a while. I know the anger comes out once and a while but i dont know what to do. Then I dont want to do anything for her. Please help me with this!!! I know this hurt my marriage too.

As far as that story I need to tell. i will tell soon. I just need a lot of time to write it. I am sure it will help with why some of these things are happening. Thanks everyone. This is unfortunately my only safe place to really speak how i feel.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/23/22 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Wasn't one of the things this forum talks about is going to the gym when getting divorced.
Gym is important but it probably takes a backseat to not fulfilling your GFs love language.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
If I am not intimate with my partner for a while (a month or more) I start to become very angry.
Angry sounds strong. Frustrated seems more appropriate?
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I start to feel like what's wrong with me, why is she not attracted to me, it just really bothers me.
Have you asked her what the problem is regarding lack of sex?
Originally Posted by Wolfman
How do i cope with that anger?
Choke your chicken
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Then I don't want to do anything for her. Please help me with this!!! I know this hurt my marriage too.
Nice Guy Syndrome. You never really delved into what your issues are and you are repeating them in this relationship.
Posted By: kml Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/23/22 04:49 PM
This is what the date nights are for - you want to woo her. She's much more likely to want to have sex with you if she feels romanced and valued.

Also - do not underestimate the physical toll of pregnancy and caring for an infant on a woman's libido. That's why you need to woo her MIND.

There's an old saying - Men want to have sex to feel close. Women need to feel close to have sex.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/23/22 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I even feel weird when a friend lets say gives me a drink. I feel like I need to give them one back very soon.

My parents would always say to my brothers and I, I did something for you (make food, wash our clothes, drive us somewhere) that we had to do something for them.
To be clear, explicit contracts are fine--

"I'll buy drinks this time, if you buy drinks next time."
"I'll drive you to the concert if you wash my car."

The core idea of No More Mr. Nice Guy is to avoid implicit contracts, where you buy a drink or wash a car without making any sort of deal and then expect a reward. And, of course, contracts involving love or sex are icky!


Originally Posted by Wolfman
If I am not intimate with my partner for a while (a month or more) I start to become very angry. I start to feel like whats wrong with me, why is she not attracted to me, it just really bothers me. How do i cope with that anger?
When someone says no, I sometimes feel disappointed, but can't recall anger.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
why is she not attracted to me,
Few men can say MOST women are attracted to them. Fewer still can say MOST women are attracted to them all the time. I get sadness, disappointment, neglect, and even shame. Your desire went unfulfilled. What is the root of your anger? Understanding why you're getting angry might help you avoid it rather than just manage it.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Then I dont want to do anything for her. Please help me with this!!! I know this hurt my marriage too.
Don't do things that you'll regret if she says no to sex. Do do things you feel like doing because you love her, you value her, she's your best friend, she's a fellow human being, etc.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/24/22 01:50 PM
Ok so here is the situation that hit our relationship hard. i apologize for it being long.

Last summer my gf and i were having a conversation about me going to court mandated therapy with my daughter. Just so everyone understands, i was only allowed to see my d at therapy for 1 hour a week. That was it, no calls, no texts no nothing.GF was getting angry that me going once a week was taking time away from her and my baby. She felt why am i putting in this time with someone who wants no part of me. That it wasn't fair to her and the baby when they are the ones who love me. I explained that, that's my d and i can't just give up on her. i had a good relationship with her and the x destroyed it. She also mentioned that it bothers her that a lot of times when i would come home from therapy with my d I would be sad and depressed. Side note, at those therapy sessions my d would bash me and make up lies how bad i was as a father. She said that wasnt fair to her and the baby either, that i would come home sad and depressed and that she didn't want to see anyone hurt me. She hated seeing me like that. I said i understand and i am sorry that i bring that home, but it's just hard for me. Well the conversation started to escalate and then she said that I don't care about her and the baby. I said I love you both but I also love my d. She said then that she was going to leave with the baby. When she said that the baby was on the floor and I was playing with him. So, I picked him up and walked into the kitchen. While I was in the kitchen I heard her packing clothes into a bag. So i figured she was just going to take off with the baby. I was not going to allow her to just leave with my child. i already lost one child. She came into the kitchen and said, give me the baby, I said he is just fine with me. She said it again louder. i told her her is going to stay in the home. She said he is her baby and she can take him. I said he is my child too and this is his home and he should stay in his home. Then she started to scream at me with the baby in my hands to give him to her. I said if you want to leave you can leave but the baby is staying. She then lunged at me to take the baby. i turned so she couldn't grab him. She then grabbed my arm really hard trying to turn me with him in my arms. I told her to stop because I could drop the baby. She tried again to reach around me to take him from me. i told her to stop that, that is dangerous. She then went back into the room to pack more things. i proceeded to walk into our bedroom and close the door and lock it. She came to the door and started to pound on the door, to give her the baby. I told her she needs to calm down she is acting irrational. She refused and continued to pound on the door. i again told her she needs to calm down, but she would stop. Since she would not calm down or stop, I called the cops. I did not know what else to do to get her to stop and calm down. Honestly i was afraid what she would do to me. When she heard me talking to the cops she started to scream more how could i call the cops on her. When the cops came i went outside to talk to them. Even in front of the cops she kept insisting I give her the baby. The cops had to calm her down, and they even said that she was acting up and that they didn't understand why I had to give the baby to her.

I gotta run i will finish soon. i get to those replys too later.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/24/22 02:09 PM
Wolfman,

Reading the summary of that incident was difficult. A lot of major red flags:

1) GF resenting your relationship with your daughter from ExW
2) GF threatening to move out and take the baby over it
3) GF acting hysterical & resorting to physical confrontations
4) You calling the cops on your GF with a newborn

Have things settled down on the home front since, any more incidents? You may want to record similar encounters in the future in case things escalate legally.

You're in a tough spot both with ExW and current GF, and kids with both. Not sure what advice to give other than get into IC and keep working on yourself to be the best father and partner you can be.

You probably don't want a second relationship with someone you have a kid with to fail, but there will come a point you have to end it if GF can't accept your relationship with your kids.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/24/22 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
She then lunged at me to take the baby. i turned so she couldn't grab him. She then grabbed my arm really hard trying to turn me with him in my arms. I told her to stop because I could drop the baby. She tried again to reach around me to take him from me. i told her to stop that, that is dangerous.
This could've turned south very quickly!

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She came to the door and started to pound on the door, to give her the baby. I told her she needs to calm down she is acting irrational. She refused and continued to pound on the door. i again told her she needs to calm down, but she would stop. Since she would not calm down or stop, I called the cops. I did not know what else to do to get her to stop and calm down. Honestly i was afraid what she would do to me. When she heard me talking to the cops she started to scream more how could i call the cops on her. When the cops came i went outside to talk to them. Even in front of the cops she kept insisting I give her the baby. The cops had to calm her down, and they even said that she was acting up and that they didn't understand why I had to give the baby to her.
Wolf, if you were afraid, kudos for calling the cops. It's their job is to keep the peace, and many are 1000% happier being called before matters escalate. I encourage striking "Calm down" from your vocabulary. Telling a woman to "Calm down" is often the surest way to achieve the opposite. Let her feel and express her feelz. Focus on the SAFETY issue--

1. "STOP banging on the door."
2. "STOP banging on the door or I'm calling the police."
3. <Call the police>

How does your GF recollect this event? Were there any long-term consequences?

I've called 9-1-1 against my XW. She never held it against me. We both recollected events similarly and she agrees it was reasonable under the circumstances for me to believe my kids were in danger.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/26/22 02:33 PM
To finish my story:
The cops then insisted that she leave the home since I called the cops on her. She was really upset and said she couldn't leave the baby because she was breast feeding. We had a bunch of breast milk in the fridge that I could have given him. I wanted her to leave because she really needed to cool down. The other part was since she was breast feeding she should be there with the baby. The cops said if she cant leave because of the breast feeding and I was not going to leave the home what can we do? So, the cops suggested if there was a family member to come over to keep the peace. They would not obviously just leave us alone. So, we were able to have gf dad come over. He is a great man in respect, he is very intelligent and doesn't take sides, he just goes by what happened. The cops waited for him to come and when he arrived they left. To make a long story a little shorter he tried to explain to her that she was acting irrationally, and feels she may have some post partum going on.
Since this situation she takes no ownership in her part of that day. All I hear is how I betrayed her trust and how dare I call the cops on her. This was last summer and she brings it up every once and a while how I hurt her and how she doesn't trust me. Its amazing that she does not want to see the part she played in all of it. Look maybe I could of waited longer before calling the cops, maybe over time she would have calmed down. She also needs to understand that grabbing for the baby was very dangerous, what if I would have dropped him. Her banging on the door tried to basically break the door down. But I am the bad one for calling the cops to stop the situation from getting worse. Its one of those things when you are removed form the situation you can think of a lot of other things you could have done. Also, I didn't mention, when she was trying to grab the baby from my arms, she grabbed my arm so hard that it was actually black and blue after. So that is the full story and why she does not trust me.

BL I dont want this relationship to fail, I really don't. But I am running out of options. There is literally no talking to her. I am always wrong and bad. Look I am not looking to be right all the time either. I would like her to just take accountability for her actions once and a while. I am reaching my breaking point, of ending this relationship. My mental health is being really affected.

Traveler- great question. If you talk to her about the incident, she was only leaving to take a break and that she was going to come back the same day. I said to her, then why were you packing up all that stuff? So, she gaslights me saying I was over reacting that she did not pack up that much stuff. We already have a diaper bag ready to go at all times with diapers, wipes, clothes and other various products. She was packing up a bunch of his clothes, I know what I saw her doing. That day was all my fault and I betrayed her trust. Long tern consequence is she can't let that go. She lets these things linger and resentment build up. I ask her all the time what can I do to help her heal and she says nothing, just time. This is just a terrible situation.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/26/22 02:42 PM
LH you asked a question about have I asked her why the lack of $ex. I have, she says she is not emotionally there. She feels like she is second and she doesn't trust me (the cop incident). When I ask how can I help you heal or help her get over it, she just says time. right now its been 2 months since the last time.

I am also starting to see a pattern that is happening more and more. The days I have my son she is depressed and just right down. When I ask her whats wrong, her response is you know, the usual. At first I would ask what does that mean? That this is her life and that she feels like her and the baby are second. She is not happy with this life and never imagined her life to be this way. She actually said to me yesterday That she is my woman and I should be putting her on a pedastil. She feels my son comes first. She constantly makes it like its my son and I against her and the baby. I am at a loss.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/26/22 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
She feels my son comes first. She constantly makes it like its my son and I against her and the baby. I am at a loss.
Wolf your life sounds horrible with the baby momma drama. Sounds to me that it's time for a heart to heart talk with your GF. If she can't understand that your son is an important part of your life then you should consider ending the relationship.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/26/22 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Wolfman
She feels my son comes first. She constantly makes it like its my son and I against her and the baby. I am at a loss.
Wolf your life sounds horrible with the baby momma drama. Sounds to me that it's time for a heart to heart talk with your GF. If she can't understand that your son is an important part of your life then you should consider ending the relationship.

I totally agree with LH on this one. Listen, Wolf, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but it just sounds colossally selfish for your gf to NOT see that your children from you first marriage are as important to you as your child with her. As I recall, you have said she's a lot younger than you and maybe that is part of the problem (her age in and of itself, not the difference between your age and hers), but if you're going to play in the adult sandbox, you have to handle adult issues like an adult. It is rare for people your age to NOT have "baggage" (i.e. children) so if she has a problem with your having them, then she needs to find someone who doesn't. Her attitude is a huge red flag to me.

Also, I'm a little confused on why, if you have talked about how her dad is kind of disrespectful toward her, he was the person chosen to "mediate" so that y'all didn't have to leave your home the night you called the cops. Maybe he was the only one available, but it doesn't sound, at least in my interpretation of your posts, that he is super supportive of his daughter.

Further, I'm not saying your gf was right in anything she did. You have a tendency, when you write things out here, to sound like you are trying to get everyone to say that you are right and she is wrong. Now, I will admit, maybe that is just the way I'm interpreting what I'm reading and I'm actually completely off base, but it just strikes me as odd that you seemed to want the police and her dad to take your side (again, NOT saying what she did was right, so I'm not taking a side at all here). Then, you explained how her dad basically told her she was wrong and you were right. That seems like it would just fan the flame and not de-escalate the situation.

Finally, in what is probably the best advice I have ever seen on these boards, Traveler told you to lose "calm down" from your vocabulary. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dude, I don't know if you are new to women or what, but telling a woman to "calm down" (or relax or any other version of that phrase) is like throwing gasoline on a grass fire. NOT helpful.

My heart really does go out to you, Wolf, as you seem to really have a lot of stress and strife surrounding you. I pray that you somehow find some peace in all of it and find a solution that works best for all involved.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/26/22 04:19 PM
You know, I believe your daughter really felt the way she did regarding your GF. You had said your ex was poisoning her regarding that, but she does seem pretty awful in regards to your children
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/26/22 04:30 PM
Wolf, thanks for the context. I don't think you were wrong to call the cops to de-escalate. I've seen enough situations go south. I get that was a traumatic event for her (betrayal) and you (worried about harm to your baby).

You seemed to bounce back and be on an upswing after summer--

Originally Posted by "Wolfman, 6 months ago"
Things with the GF are getting better. I am learning to be patient, that she just wants the best for our baby. Also, realize that she is going through changes hormonally and slack of sleep. I am working on not taking things so personally and just moving forward. The nice thing is to see my GF and my son starting to build a relationship again. They are talking more and joking more. It really makes me so happy.
Originally Posted by "Wolfman, today"
I am always wrong and bad. My mental health is being really affected. She actually said to me yesterday That she is my woman and I should be putting her on a pedastil.
You're putting her flaws on display. We tend to do this when we're ready to give up. What would you need to slow down, remember your dreams of a future, remember why you loved her?

Originally Posted by Wolfman Today
BL I dont want this relationship to fail, I really don't. But I am running out of options. There is literally no talking to her.
Rewind, then. A few days ago kml, Valeska, Dawn, and I suggested doing the "Next right things" by asking her out on a romantic date. Also, staying awake for her quality time.

Valeska made some solid points, e.g. "Would you do that for your son?" (is she an equal). Also, sensing you are near your tipping point, do you need to pull back elsewhere? The goal is balance plus a thing or two as a gift out of love.

You say your mental health is spiraling. Can you talk to an IC before the long weekend?

What will you do to make this long weekend a success? I'm hoping you're setting aside Wolf alone time, Wolf & GF dating time, and GF alone time. "A failure to plan is a plan to fail."

Originally Posted by Wolfman
All I hear is how I betrayed her trust and how dare I call the cops on her. This was last summer and she brings it up every once and a while how I hurt her and how she doesn't trust me. Its amazing that she does not want to see the part she played in all of it. I would like her to just take accountability for her actions once and a while
Wolf, I support calling the cops, but as with your XW and D drop any fantasies she'll ever believe she was wrong and you were right. You can help by processing why you need her to agree on rightness or wrongness. Personally, I'd be curious to hear why she feels calling the police to de-escalate the situation was a betrayal of her trust. Was it the call or what you said to the cops or pulling in her dad? When our feelings are heard without judgment it helps greatly.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/27/22 05:53 AM
I can’t sleep. A situation came up and want to hear what I should do. A friend from my job has a side job. He asked Tuesday if I could work Friday night with him. I said let me ask my gf if that’s ok. Now 2 months ago, my gf signed up to take a GRE test tomorrow (Friday). I thought she told me it was I. The morning because she asked if I was going to be off that day, which I am. She has to take it online with someone watching her live. So I asked her Tuesday morning through text.
Here is the text conversation with some minor changes just because we are on the board like names and exact job.

Me: The guy B, asked if I could work this friday? I would meet him at the ferry at 5:30 and work till 2am. $175 cash.

Gf: And you’re going to be up in time to help me with Baby? lol

Me: Might be a little tough.

Gf: You should consider that. Considering the help I get is minimal.

Me: I understand, but money is tight.

Gf: k

Then last night right before we are going to bed, she says I know you are supposed to work tomorrow night but I just remembered I have the test tomorrow. I said I know it’s in the morning. She said no it’s at 8pm. I said I could have sworn you told me it was in the morning originally. She said no I told you it was at night. And I going to need to you to keep an eye on the baby. I said but her will be sleeping. She said what happens if he wakes up? I said why did you tell me it was ok then to work? I would have just said no to him. She said see you never remember anything of mine. But if it was a game for your son or something for him you would remember. I said I only remember his games because the coach puts it on an app. She said anyway I didn’t say it was ok. I said you said k. She actually said I didn’t say ok, just k. I said what’s the difference? She said k was just acknowledging that you said we are tight on money. Ugh. So I am asking everyone here what do I do. The guy B makes the schedule early in the week. If I cancel that looks bad and he may never ask me to help again which is good money, when I am financially struggling. On the other hand I know this is important to her.
Help!!
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/27/22 06:03 AM
Wolf, the biggest issue in your life right now is your disintegrating relationship.

Watch the baby while she does the GRE.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/27/22 06:33 AM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Me: The guy B, asked if I could work this friday? I would meet him at the ferry at 5:30 and work till 2am. $175 cash.

Gf: And you’re going to be up in time to help me with Baby? lol

Me: Might be a little tough.

Gf: You should consider that. Considering the help I get is minimal.

Me: I understand, but money is tight.

Gf: k
Wolf, my take is you indirectly asked your GF if you could skip watching your son and she can do it for you so you could make extra $$$. Whether or not "k" constitutes consent, she was clearly bitter and angry you wanted to do this.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/27/22 08:53 AM
I disagree with Traveler. She told you it was ok to work and she needs to stick to her word. If she didn’t want you to work she needs to be direct and tell you. You are not to read into the meaning of “k”. If you want to start having sex again she needs to respect you.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/27/22 10:09 AM
Consent is an enthusiastic "Yes!" not the absence of no. I disagree with LH's notion that blowing her GRE attempt by holding her to "her word" (unclear if given) after taking this job despite her objections ("I understand, but") will lead to respect or sex. If she fails, it'll be the day she "failed the GRE because of you" and you "were told 'k' so it was her fault she failed." What will that evening of work cost in therapy? What will that do for your chances of reconciling?

I do think you'd earn respect by telling her you love her and are there for her and will ensure she won't fail her GRE due to a miscommunication or interference by baby--whether that means staying home or hiring a sitter for that $175 (so you get future jobs from that guy). I do think you'd earn respect by asking what she means by "Considering the help I get is minimal"--and how to get childcare much closer to a 50/50 shared responsibility outside your day job hours.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/27/22 10:33 AM
Again any reasonable person understands that “k” is yes. You can certainly make arrangements for both of you to satisfy your commitments. Being a man of word is very attractive to women so simply apologize for the miscommunication and move forward.

Your bigger problem is your GF is manipulative and you never addressed your issues from your first marriage. This IMO needs to be addressed ASAP.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/27/22 11:09 AM
Both of you bring up great points. I feel like this is one of those tests for me. Am I picking something else over her. LH I agree with that she said “k” and we should stick with that.
Traveler you bring up a great point. If she does let’s say fail, guess who’s fault that will be?? Your truly and I will never hear the end of it. Honestly you are both right. Ugh either way I lose here. I will lose this side job permanently or just another nail in my relationship.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/27/22 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I feel like this is one of those tests for me. Am I picking something else over her.
This is absolutely a $hit test.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Traveler you bring up a great point. If she does let’s say fail, guess who’s fault that will be??
No way is this on you if she fails. 100% on her.
Posted By: Valeska19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/27/22 02:10 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I can’t sleep. A situation came up and want to hear what I should do. A friend from my job has a side job. He asked Tuesday if I could work Friday night with him. I said let me ask my gf if that’s ok. Now 2 months ago, my gf signed up to take a GRE test tomorrow (Friday). I thought she told me it was I. The morning because she asked if I was going to be off that day, which I am. She has to take it online with someone watching her live. So I asked her Tuesday morning through text.
Here is the text conversation with some minor changes just because we are on the board like names and exact job.

Me: The guy B, asked if I could work this friday? I would meet him at the ferry at 5:30 and work till 2am. $175 cash.

Gf: And you’re going to be up in time to help me with Baby? lol

Me: Might be a little tough.

Gf: You should consider that. Considering the help I get is minimal.

Me: I understand, but money is tight.

Gf: k

Then last night right before we are going to bed, she says I know you are supposed to work tomorrow night but I just remembered I have the test tomorrow. I said I know it’s in the morning. She said no it’s at 8pm. I said I could have sworn you told me it was in the morning originally. She said no I told you it was at night. And I going to need to you to keep an eye on the baby. I said but her will be sleeping. She said what happens if he wakes up? I said why did you tell me it was ok then to work? I would have just said no to him. She said see you never remember anything of mine. But if it was a game for your son or something for him you would remember. I said I only remember his games because the coach puts it on an app. She said anyway I didn’t say it was ok. I said you said k. She actually said I didn’t say ok, just k. I said what’s the difference? She said k was just acknowledging that you said we are tight on money. Ugh. So I am asking everyone here what do I do. The guy B makes the schedule early in the week. If I cancel that looks bad and he may never ask me to help again which is good money, when I am financially struggling. On the other hand I know this is important to her.
Help!!

Wolf
Overall - this is not how a healthy relationship communicates. It's passive and unclear. The Good News is that you have the ability to clean up your side of the street. The hard news... is that is probably not going to feel the best. She baits you and spews unnecessary venom (built up resentment). My guess is that this will increase on her side... so you will hold fast to your self respect.

I too read it as LH - however next time perhaps ask her what she would like you to do? Or you can confirm that she would prefer you not do the job so you can help with the baby? You can also ask how you can compromise in the morning. Maybe you get up with the baby at 6 and then when the baby lays down for the morning nap - you can go back to bed?

Since you already booked the work - I would suggest finding someone to watch the baby during the test. Even if she protests, or spews venom, she will have the help and it shows that you heard her and can solve the problem.

It doesn't seem you will be able to nice your way out of this one. Do not engage when she puts you down. Do not fight back. Do not make excuses. It's all bait - Ignore it.

Expect countermoves. Expect anger.. but if you can firm on a good communication style with boundaries and mutual respect - you can change the dynamic.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/27/22 02:46 PM
Man, Wolf, you are in a spot for sure. Based on your posts before that one, I don't think her "k" response was agreement or "permission" (as it were), but as she said, just an acknowledgment of what you'd said. I say this because she does not appear to be a clear communicator and she's manipulative to boot, so it is easy for her to argue that "ok" and "k" are 2 entirely different things when most of us would assume like LH and Valeska that she was agreeing with what you said. I don't necessarily agree with Traveler that consent is an enthusiastic response because that might not be the case either. The way I interpreted her "k" was just a simple dismissive response to end the conversation while not necessarily agreeing with you. Maybe hoping you'd just drop it there? Who knows?

As far as your being at fault if she fails the GRE, well of course, if she fails it, that is on her and you and she both know that, but I suspect, again based on things you have already told about her, that she would absolutely blame it on you and your lack of support (which she called out in the text exchange).

So, what do you do? As others have suggested, find someone to watch the baby while she takes her test to show her that you heard her and are supporting her, but also to allow you to follow through on your work commitment, thus earning you some much-needed income.

Overall, I think, again as others have said, you both really need to learn to communicate better because right now it just seems like a big, messy train wreck.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/27/22 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by Traveler
I do think you'd earn respect by telling her you love her and are there for her and will ensure she won't fail her GRE due to a miscommunication or interference by baby--whether that means staying home or hiring a sitter for that $175 (so you get future jobs from that guy).
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Ugh either way I lose here.
Crucibles are an opportunity to shine, Wolfman, to show who and what matters to you.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/28/22 02:32 AM
Thank you everyone for the responses. We don’t have any one to watch the baby. So, I chose to stay home and cancel on the job. I feel this is a 180, since I seem to pick others over her. She was shocked when I said I wasn’t going to go. She actually said to me she feels bad now that I had to cancel the work. I even heard her call the test company about rescheduling or cancelling to get her money back. They wouldn’t allow either. I am starting To learn with her. Learn that when I go against her it’s a big ordeal, if I give her what she wants a lot of times she will back down. It’s like if I tell her to do something or what to do, she absolutely does not like that and will go against it. Not very mature, I know, but I am learning. I appreciate everyone talking to me.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/28/22 03:17 AM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
She was shocked.. even heard her call the test company about rescheduling or cancelling to get her money back.
You made a 180 putting her first, and then she treated the situation like you two are a team. Good stuff, Wolf! I hope the goodwill leads to some much needed bonding this weekend. My girlfriend—of 5 months(!)—is headed over for the weekend so I’ll be having fun, too.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
It’s like if I tell her to do something or what to do, she absolutely does not like that and will go against it.
I hope the relationship finds the balance point between her getting you to do something, and you telling her what to do. That DB you control you, she controls her.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/28/22 03:39 AM
Wolfman,
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I am starting To learn with her. Learn that when I go against her it’s a big ordeal, if I give her what she wants a lot of times she will back down.
Not a good recipe for the future. That dynamic better change or your relationship is in big trouble.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
It’s like if I tell her to do something or what to do, she absolutely does not like that and will go against it. Not very mature, I know, but I am learning. I appreciate everyone talking to me.
You're learning how she'll react, but what is the take-away? How will that inform your own actions?
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/28/22 10:57 AM
Ok, so maybe it is just me, but what I understand you're saying is that she basically taught you that if you buck her she’s going to create drama and if you give in, she’ll back down and “behave” for lack of a better word. Again maybe it is just me but that sounds terribly immature and doesn’t bode well for your future interactions. It also screams manipulation. Think about that…..y’all disagree so she throws a fit and is nasty to you. You give in so she’s fine, even complicit about how sorry she is you missed work (never acknowledging that you chose to miss). Seems like a situation where you have to spend a lot of time walking on egg shells.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/28/22 11:57 AM
Wowza. So basically like a toddler throwing a tantrum, if you give her what she wants , she will stop licking and screaming. Basically, you have a 4th child
Posted By: kml Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/28/22 02:22 PM
Look, the GRE is a big thing. And you WANT her to pursue an education and a career for the sake of your child and your own finances going forward, whether you stay together as a couple or not. So you did the right thing.

As for the future, you BOTH need better communication. You also NEED to find a reliable babysitter ASAP, as there will be other things that come up in the future where a sitter will be essential.

If you tend to forget things she tells you (although I can see how you assumed the test was at 8:00 am!) maybe you need to use a family calendar app so that everything is written down clearly and you don’t have to rely on faulty oral communication and faulty memories.

Also, I see two things she said that would be ideal for addressing in therapy:

First, her comment that she’s not getting enough help. Is that true? What is the division of labor in your home? It can be overwhelming and exhausting to care for a baby and run a home.

Second - and this is a lot harder to address - her mentality that she should be on a pedestal. A year into this unfortunate situation and she’s still clinging to a fairytale image of how life should be? I understand that she wanted to be in a relationship where you both were very much in love when she had this child - I think we all want that. And it’s unfortunate that wasn’t the case. But the word “pedestal” kinda sets me off. Think about it in reverse - what if YOU were demanding that a woman put YOU on a pedestal, bring you your pipe and slippers when you get home from work, objecting that she pays too much attention to her children from a previous marriage that her ex has primary custody of, etc. I think we all could agree that would be boorish behavior.

But some women were brought up as spoiled “princesses” and expect to be treated that way in a relationship without reciprocating. What was her family of origin like? What are her female friends like? Is there no family nearby that can help with the baby?
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/29/22 09:00 AM
Traveler thanks. Have a good time with the gf.

BL you asked what is the take away. That she needs how to learn to communicate better. I spoke with a couples therapist and are trying to get us in this week. Gf is onboard with it. Like so many of you said, our communication stinks.

.
Originally Posted by Dawn70
Ok, so maybe it is just me, but what I understand you're saying is that she basically taught you that if you buck her she’s going to create drama and if you give in, she’ll back down and “behave” for lack of a better word. Again maybe it is just me but that sounds terribly immature and doesn’t bode well for your future interactions. It also screams manipulation. Think about that…..y’all disagree so she throws a fit and is nasty to you. You give in so she’s fine, even complicit about how sorry she is you missed work (never acknowledging that you chose to miss). Seems like a situation where you have to spend a lot of time walking on egg shells.
She is very immature. I am hoping therapy for us will help with that. It happened just yesterday about something we talked about. The minute I disagreed with her about something right away she starts I don’t want to argue, just forget about it. I said it’s not an argument we can talk about things we don’t agree on.
Originally Posted by Ginger1
Wowza. So basically like a toddler throwing a tantrum, if you give her what she wants , she will stop licking and screaming. Basically, you have a 4th child
Pretty much. Yet if you were to ask her she would say I am stubborn and difficult. At times I can be, but I don’t give in if it’s not worth it, or we compromise. But that is not often.

KML let address some of those questions. Division of labor. She makes all the baby food from scratch and she pumps. She does most of the house cleaning. When I get home from work I usually take the baby right away, when I am home I usually do all the baby feedings, she prepares the food I feed him. I change his diapers and at night when she bathed him I was his dishes and load the dish washer. Her comment about me was more because when my son is around I spend time with him and I am not helping every second then.
As far as growing up for her. She is the youngest of 3 l. She was babied also explained did not have a good relationship with her siblings. Even to this day. Does t get along with her mother, the only person she gets along with is her dad. Her dad spoiled her as a little girl. The other thing, my gf has a very exotic look and is very attractive. When we would go out, the minute she was not next to me a guy was hitting on her. I’m not kidding I had guys high giving me at times in clubs. So, she has this thing that she “knows” she is good looking and we guys do whatever she wants. So, she is used to getting her way a lot. Gotta run.
Posted By: kml Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/29/22 05:23 PM
Ugh yeah - sounds like Daddy’s little princess had different plans for her life than getting knocked up by a guy who already had two kids and may not be able to keep her in the lifestyle to which she would like to be accustomed and feels owed.

The fact that she doesn’t get along with any other family members besides her dad seems like a red flag.

Hopefully therapy can help the two of you learn to communicate better, and set more reasonable expectations for your relationship. I’d also think long and hard about whether you ever want another child - if the answer is no, you may want to consider a vasectomy.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/29/22 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by kml
Ugh yeah - sounds like Daddy’s little princess had different plans for her life than getting knocked up by a guy who already had two kids and may not be able to keep her in the lifestyle to which she would like to be accustomed and feels owed.

The fact that she doesn’t get along with any other family members besides her dad seems like a red flag.

Hopefully therapy can help the two of you learn to communicate better, and set more reasonable expectations for your relationship. I’d also think long and hard about whether you ever want another child - if the answer is no, you may want to consider a vasectomy.
The family thing I didn’t know till later on in the relationship. But then again in the last 2 years I had a lot of problems with my messed up family. So, I can’t go by that either. I’m hoping the therapist will help iron some things out.

Want to share a bit of positive news, don’t want to always talk about the bad. Today my gf came to my son’s basketball game. To support him. So that was nice to see. Have a great Memorial Day everyone!!!
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 05/31/22 06:42 PM
Wolf, I see that as very positive--you filled up her love tank a bit by putting effort in to make her GRE happen, and she responded by trying to reschedule the GRE AND was at your son's game. I hope your weekend had some joy in it!

Originally Posted by Wolf
It’s like if I tell her to do something or what to do, she absolutely does not like that and will go against it. Not very mature, I know, but I am learning. I appreciate everyone talking to me.
Originally Posted by BL42
You're learning how she'll react, but what is the take-away? How will that inform your own actions?
Originally Posted by Wolf
BL you asked what is the take away. That she needs how to learn to communicate better. I spoke with a couples therapist and are trying to get us in this week. Gf is onboard with it. Like so many of you said, our communication stinks.
You say "OUR" communication stinks, but you focus on changes for HER. When you say "I tell her what to do" and "She goes against that" to me there are problems on both sides: (1) Given she's your equal, your partner, "telling her what to do" should rarely to never happen and (2) When you do order her around she should actively say "NO!" and tell you where to stick it rather than a dismissive response and then passively doing something else. Hopefully, in therapy, the conversation is less about who's right or wrong in such situations and more about how you can interact better going forward.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/10/22 07:34 PM
Hi Wolf, I hope you are continuing to work on your side of the relationship issues and continuing to see reciprocation from her in some form as you do so. You're not in an easy place but also not at a hopeless one.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/12/22 03:24 AM
Wolfman,
Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by Wolfman
It’s like if I tell her to do something or what to do, she absolutely does not like that and will go against it. Not very mature, I know, but I am learning. I appreciate everyone talking to me.
You're learning how she'll react, but what is the take-away? How will that inform your own actions?
Originally Posted by Wolfman
BL you asked what is the take away. That she needs how to learn to communicate better.
I was surprised when you answered the take away is that "she needs to learn..." (italics mine).

Originally Posted by kml
As for the future, you BOTH need better communication.
Originally Posted by Traveler
You say "OUR" communication stinks, but you focus on changes for HER.

I agree with kml & Traveler that you both need to work on communication. It's a two way street.

My take on the GRE / work disagreement is it seemed like a miscommunication. Perhaps she didn't do a great job on conveying the importance and precise schedule/logistical need, but I'm not sure you did a great job with understanding that need and ensuring no conflict before you signed up to work on the weekend. The GRE Test sounds like a very important thing - not a spa day with her friends - and your extra work sounds important as well. I think the two of you need to communicate more effectively to prevent those confusions in the future. Maybe a Google or Apple Calendar where she can map out GRE Test Saturday at 8PM (or AM) and then you know not to schedule over? The online calendars where very effective for me and ExW previously, and now very helpful for myself and S7 & D3 activities. Anyway, just an idea.

In terms of my original "take away" comment, I was referring to how you plan to handle the toddler meltdown until they get what they want approach you said she's taking. Obviously giving the kid a cookie every time instead of a firm boundary causes issues down the line and is not sustainable. You need to learn to deal with that, though also balance against the situation - GRE Test is more important and perhaps understandable than some lesser ask.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Want to share a bit of positive news, don’t want to always talk about the bad. Today my gf came to my son’s basketball game. To support him. So that was nice to see. Have a great Memorial Day everyone!!!
Glad to hear the positive update! It sounds like it means a lot to you she would support your son, which is completely understandable. You may want to tell how how important that was to you and how happy it made you to give positive reinforcement to her action.

Hope you had a good Memorial Day, and have a good Father's Day this coming weekend as well.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/13/22 02:26 PM
BL and Traveler thank you for your thoughts. When I said she needs to work on communication I am too. I am trying to just stick to the facts and stay calm. One thing I am seeing more and more that I don't like, when we have a conversation about something and we have a difference of opinion she starts to get loud and then trys to gaslight and project. Example, I have my son for 2 uninterrupted weeks in the summer. I asked her that we should talk about those 2 weeks, where we would both feel comfortable. She said she wanted to think about it first. Thats fine no problem. After about a week I asked her did she think about those days. She replied, I don't care you pick the weeks. I said are you sure? She said she doesn't care. I picked the 2 weeks, one right when school ends and the other at the end of the summer. Let me back track just for a second, A month earlier she said she wanted to go away on vacation the last week of June. We looked numerous times and the airfare and everything was just too expensive, so that week was out. I told her it was just too expensive and i would look at other weeks for us to go away. Evidently I didn't realize she was still trying to figure something out for that week. Just on Friday she asked if she could work a little the last week in June. I said sure, just want to let you know I have my son that week. Granted I will take blame for not telling her immediately which weeks I picked. But I literally told my ex the week before which weeks I was taking our son. Then she had the nerve to say, I didn't speak to her about which weeks. I said I asked you and you said you didn't care. Her reply was, you should have told me which weeks you were thinking of and ran it by me. I said but you told me you didn't care. She said you still should have told me. i said you are right I should have told you the dates right away. Next was just amazing. She said, I wanted to work that week and now I can't. I said why not? She said you have your son. I said I know, what does that have to do with you working. Her reply so degrading, how are you going to be able to take care of both? I said thats a little hurtful that you think I can't take care of both of our kids. She replied, i didn't say that and that is your own insecurities. I said its not my insecurities, you said I can't take care of both. Then she said, look how you are talking to me. I said I am just responding to what you are saying. She said yuo are getting all defensive. I said not defensive just trying to have a conversation with you. She said I am making her upset and she doesnt want to talk about his anymore. I said if this conversation is upsetting you we can end this conversation. And we ended the conversation.

So lets take a look at this. I am being blamed for my son coming and she didn't think he should come that week.
That I can't handle 2 kids and then says I have insecurities. Gaslighting
When i said it won't be a problem for me to handle the 2 kids and said she can go to work. Yet said she can't now. Projecting
I am getting to the end of my rope with this relationship. She is very immature and doesn't know how to work things out, she wants to always run from these kinds of conversations.
Oh I forgot to mention, I actually booked another vacation at the end of the summer and wanted to surprise her but had to tell her I have one for us. I told her because how upset she was getting and yet still seemed ungrateful because its not when SHE WANTED TO GO. Yet its just me who works and is paying for it.

Have a field day everyone!!! LOL

BL thank you for the memorial day and father days wishes. Hope you had a great day both those days too.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/13/22 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
BL and Traveler thank you for your thoughts. When I said she needs to work on communication I am too.
What are you doing to actively improve your communication--physical books, podcasts, therapy, life coach, YouTube videos, etc? You could always post here daily and take on-board advice.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She said, I wanted to work that week and now I can't. I said why not? She said you have your son. I said I know, what does that have to do with you working. Her reply.. how are you going to be able to take care of both? I said thats a little hurtful that you think I can't take care of both of our kids. She replied, i didn't say that and that is your own insecurities. Gaslighting. I said its not my insecurities, you said I can't take care of both.
I agree she implied you couldn't take care of both kids, then tried to backpedal by saying she didn't and blamed it on your insecurities. Icky! Frustrating. I found an article in a Psychology Today, "When It Might Not Be Gaslighting" They say the term doesn't apply to a guilty defendant lying to avoid punishment, but rather requires a motive to undermine a victim's sense of reality. Wherever her intent, she certainly seems to get defensive and have trouble communicating.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She said I am making her upset and she doesnt want to talk about his anymore. I said if this conversation is upsetting you we can end this conversation. And we ended the conversation.
Subtle, but note her statements control her ("I don't want to talk about this anymore"), but your statements control her, ("We can end this conversation.") Does she need your permission to end the conversation? Consider more "I" statements and fewer "We" statements.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I told her it was just too expensive and i would look at other weeks for us to go away. Evidently I didn't realize she was still trying to figure something out for that week.
Why? If she were your child, telling her it was too expensive would be the end of it, but she's your equal partner so that's just your feeling. Look for affirmative consent. If it's not there, you are just stating your feelings and preferences, and there's been no agreement.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Oh I forgot to mention, I actually booked another vacation at the end of the summer and wanted to surprise her but had to tell her I have one for us. I told her because how upset she was getting and yet still seemed ungrateful because its not when SHE WANTED TO GO. Yet its just me who works and is paying for it.
When there are control and communication issues in a relationship, I'd cut down on surprises. "Surprises" often means the person doing the surprising chooses everything. As much as you think she sounds entitled because you're offering her a vacation and she's ungrateful, you sound entitled because your expect her to go and expect her to express gratitude.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Then she had the nerve to say, I didn't speak to her about which weeks. I said I asked you and you said you didn't care. Her reply was, you should have told me which weeks you were thinking of and ran it by me. I said but you told me you didn't care. She said you still should have told me. i said you are right I should have told you the dates right away.
I have a hard time resolving these two statements--first, you seem upset she has the "nerve" to raise this point, then you agreed she was right. Which do you believe?

Originally Posted by Wolfman
So lets take a look at this.
You two are struggling. You vent about it here about it every couple of weeks. You are both "trying"--but what will you do to up your communication game? If she were here I'd be asking her that! Options--physical books, podcasts, therapy, life coach, YouTube videos, etc. Posting here more regularly and taking on-board feedback such as my affirmative consent or BL42's shared calendar and giving her lots of positive feedback about attending your son's game may help. We'd love to help more.

Wolf, you want a change, be that change.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/13/22 05:10 PM
Traveler thank you for the feedback. Honestly, I use this board to help me communicate. I need to come to this board more often i think.
As far as the "we" statements. i only asked because she was upset and I didn't want to continue to upset her, thats why I asked if she wanted to end the conversation. How would I use "I" there? I feel like that would be controlling, with the we, I am giving her a voice.
The affirmative consent, I am a little confused there.

The "surprise" is where she wants to go and for how long. The only thing that is different is the date, I got it for $250 less. Im trying my best when I am the only one who works and pays child support. I try and give her everything that I can, physically, mentally, emotionally and financially.

I am trying to be the change, baby steps
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/13/22 05:26 PM
Please take what I’m about to say with the grain of salt which I intend because I may be way off base here but the fact that you say you are trying to give her everything emotionally, physically, financially may be part of the problem. You’ve indicated before that your girlfriend is very spoiled and to me, your statement says you are continuing that trend. I agree with what the gentlemen said before me that you both need to work on communication. You can only control your part of that equation.

I get the sense from your writing that you are a defensive guy. You spend a lot of time explaining your side and when someone comes at you with a differing opinion, you go into “but, but, but” mode trying to explain why you’re right.

No relationship is perfect and they all take work. I do appreciate that you seem to recognize the need for better communication with your gf but I wonder if treating her more like an equal might be part of that. You always talk about how you are the breadwinner and even in your most recent post, as Traveler pointed out, you kind of treated her like a child in the exchange about a vacation being too expensive. I get you are the only one working so the financial burden is on you but why not work on budgeting and include her in those talks and decisions. Just because she’s not adding $$$ to the bank account doesn’t mean she’s not contributing. Look at all the money y’all save on child care by having her at home with baby. That’s money you are not out.

Again, take all that with a grain of salt because I may be way off. Just one gal’s opinion.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/14/22 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I am trying to be the change, baby steps
I see that, your patience and attempts to make this work. I'm rooting for you two!

Originally Posted by Wolf
She said I am making her upset and she doesnt want to talk about his anymore. I said if this conversation is upsetting you we can end this conversation.
Originally Posted by Wolf
As far as the "we" statements. i only asked because she was upset and I didn't want to continue to upset her, thats why I asked if she wanted to end the conversation. How would I use "I" there? I feel like that would be controlling, with the we, I am giving her a voice.
Wolf, I can clarify a bit more. I'll caveat I'm of course on the outside looking in!

I get what you're saying, but your girlfriend doesn't seem meek and doesn't need you to "give" her a voice because she already has one and expressed it: "I don't want to talk about this anymore." Some good "I" statement replies if you wanted to stop might be, "I don't, either." or "Fine, I'll drop this for now." "I" statements are rarely controlling because they control OURSELVES not OTHERS. As I said, it's subtle, but the shift to "I" statements really helped me transition from either being controlled or controlling my XGF (co-dependence), towards healthier interdependence.

Originally Posted by Wolf
I told her it was just too expensive and i would look at other weeks for us to go away. Evidently I didn't realize she was still trying to figure something out for that week.
Originally Posted by Wolf
The affirmative consent, I am a little confused there.
That one's simpler. Anytime an activity involves her, unless there's a clear and unambiguous signal she consents such as "Yes" or "I agree", don't assume she's agreed to anything. Consent isn't the absence of no, it's the presence of yes! This one's bitten you before. Going a step further, "You told her" <and then expected it was settled> implies inequality. BL42's suggestion to put any dates and times you agree to into a shared calendar on the fridge or in Google would reduce confusion.

Originally Posted by Wolf
Yet its just me who works and is paying for it.
Like Dawn, I'd note the above implies watching the baby while you're driving to, from, and are at your workplace is not "work". It's unfortunate our society can undervalue housework. What would a daycare or nanny charge? That percentage of your paycheck (AT LEAST--more if she does other chores) is her contribution towards expenses. Once upon a time I had a partner who did my laundry and I regret initially expecting more and valuing them less than laundry services.

Originally Posted by Wolf
I try and give her everything that I can, physically, mentally, emotionally and financially.
Like Dawn, ack, don't spoil her! I'd strive to more equally divide these between you, her, and your children. Granted, there will be seasons when one of them needs more, but those should be the exceptions.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/17/22 04:54 PM
Dawn there are times I am defensive. I am quick to go on the defense at times. Something I need to improve on. Thank you for your aShe dvice. I do talk to her about the finances. We talk a lot about it, the finances. I didn't think about how much money she is saving us with taking care of the baby.

Traveler, you are right, I need to work on those "I" statements. I just seem lost at times. I feel like I don't have a voice in this relationship. When i give my opinion, that does go with hers, thats when we get into an argument. I am tired. I am trying but losing love. I don't want to give up, but I am losing hope. She is not happy. One thing I have learned from here and listening to motivational speakers is, people are in charge of their own happiness. She needs to learn to find happiness on her own. She doesn't, She holds me accountable for her happiness. She is often bringing up things from the past, that is preventing her from being happy. She continues to rip the scab open. I don't know how to help her get over these things. I try to show her love everyday, with little things, it doesn't seem to be helping. She is stuck in her emotions and doesn't know how to get unstuck. One of her biggest problems is my son. She feels like I often put him ahead of her and the baby. I am trying to balance. She makes me feel like she is my child, like when the child feels like the siblings are being favored. She will say things like, "I am your woman and you should make me feel like I am your woman." I would ask, "How do I make you feel like you are not my woman?" She would then go on how I put my son before her. She is competing with my son and I am not sure why.

Last night I decided to schedule a date night. i had a babysitter come over (her best friend) and watch the baby. I made reservations for a nice restaurant and then go out after for a little bit. She has always told me she like when the man takes charge. So, thats what I did. I picked a place that was close and nice and the after place was close too. Dinner was nice, food was great had a nice time. Yet, in my gut I just felt a little distance. I could be wrong but thats just how I felt. After dinner we went to the second place for a drink. About 20 minutes in (I don't remember how we got to the conversation) she starts to talk about all the things I have done to hurt her, how she is emotionally scarred, basically everything is my fault. 2 things she brought up was, when she first got pregnant, I mentioned about getting an abortion. We were not in a good place and not prepared for the baby. Second, was when I called the cops on her. Those things are over a year and a half ago. She needs to move on, because if she doesn't, this is going to destroy our relationship. I have apologized for those things many times, but she wont let go. i can't undo them. Also, the baby I am actually crazy about, and that at the time I said that, I was stupid. I have more than showed her how much I love that little guy and how I want to be with him every second i get. That should undo that comment. But she won't let it go. She mentioned again, how my "other family" comes before her and the baby. Yet the night ended with, She is just going to focus on the baby and no one else. I asked, so you don't even care about me? She said I have made her feel this way and she is just going to worry and focus on the baby. That really hurt!!! In my mind with that statement. I feel like now I am just a convenience. She has a home, all the bills are paid, she doesn't have to work and that does not sit with me well. I am no one's convenience!!! If she doesn't show me soon I am not someone she will care about, this is going to end. Thank you for reading all of this!!!
Posted By: BL42 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/17/22 05:25 PM
Wolfman,

Originally Posted by Wolfman
One thing I have learned from here and listening to motivational speakers is, people are in charge of their own happiness.
Very true. Good lesson to learn.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She needs to learn to find happiness on her own.
I cringe at the "she needs to..." statements. You can't control her or direct her; work on yourself and your own happiness.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She will say things like, "I am your woman and you should make me feel like I am your woman." I would ask, "How do I make you feel like you are not my woman?"
Instead of asking a defensive question, what about validating and reflecting on how you can address her concerns. How would you make a woman feel you cherish her and want her?

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She is competing with my son and I am not sure why.
This is going to be a big problem if it doesn't change. You'll always have a son, and he needs to be a priority. Not the only priority, but a priority. Like you said, a balance. Reflect on whether you think it is balanced or if you think it's unbalanced in an unfair way to her. If it's the latter then take action to address it. If it's the former, and she's simply jealous of you having other kids, that's not something you can change and will continue to be an issue unless she changes her mindset. You have other children. That's a simple fact. In order for the two of you to work out as a couple, she'll need to accept that.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Last night I decided to schedule a date night. i had a babysitter come over (her best friend) and watch the baby. I made reservations for a nice restaurant and then go out after for a little bit. She has always told me she like when the man takes charge. So, thats what I did.
Well done! Keep it up. Sounds like a great way to address her concerns from above.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
she starts to talk about all the things I have done to hurt her, how she is emotionally scarred, basically everything is my fault. 2 things she brought up was, when she first got pregnant, I mentioned about getting an abortion. We were not in a good place and not prepared for the baby. Second, was when I called the cops on her.
First, despite the turn of conversation I'd recommend continuing the date nights and special ways to make her feel like she's your woman. I don't think one gesture or date night is going to turn things on a dime.

Second, did you try truly listen to her concerns and validation. The two items she brings up are (in fairness) pretty significant. Asking for an abortion and calling the police are major events. It's not being late 5 mins coming home from work. It may take her time to process those feelings. Are you listening and understanding and empathizing with her?

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She needs to move on, because if she doesn't, this is going to destroy our relationship.
Again, "she needs to..." Maybe it's nothing, but the way you say that makes me wonder.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I have apologized for those things many times, but she wont let go. i can't undo them.
I think it's going to take a lot of time for her to process those feelings and a lot of patience on your part.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She said I have made her feel this way and she is just going to worry and focus on the baby. That really hurt!!! In my mind with that statement. I feel like now I am just a convenience.
I can understand why that would hurt. This almost sounds like a mini-BD. Are you DB'ing accordingly? Keep working on yourself and being a great dad, and learn how to attract her and make her feel like you want her to be your woman.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She has a home, all the bills are paid, she doesn't have to work and that does not sit with me well.
Seems like we see this time and time again on this forum. For better or worse, being a good dad and provider is not good enough in relationships/marriages these days.
Posted By: kml Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/17/22 06:19 PM
Quote
She has a home, all the bills are paid, she doesn't have to work and that does not sit with me well.

In all fairness, she IS working - she’s raising your child, and that’s the toughest job I ever did in my life (and I used to work 12 hour shifts at a busy urgent care center).

And if she is taking the GRE, she’s clearly planning for a future career.

She may or may not be able to forgive you for those things. This relationship may or may not work out. Are you speaking her love languages? Will she go to therapy with you?

I’m sorry this first date didn’t go the way you hoped. Maybe the next date night should be an activity, where the focus is less on talking? P
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/17/22 06:48 PM
BL42 touched on many good points, but I wanted to focus on this one:

Originally Posted by Wolfman
she doesn't have to work and that does not sit with me well.
At a minimum, she's nannying a young child and possibly doing housekeeping, cooking, laundry, etc.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I didn't think about how much money she is saving us with taking care of the baby.
"does not sit well with me"--The thought that she's not working or helping the bottom line seems to cause you resentment. Try this--list what she does and how much it would cost to oursource. Get specific. E.g., if she does housekeeping, a monthly service may only charge $500, but a weekly service may charge $1200. If you'd rather do a task yourself, that's fine--substitute your typical hourly work rate for the cost of doing the task. How much is she helping the bottom line?
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/24/22 03:46 PM
BL you made this comment:

I can understand why that would hurt. This almost sounds like a mini-BD. Are you DB'ing accordingly? Keep working on yourself and being a great dad, and learn how to attract her and make her feel like you want her to be your woman.

Here's my dilemma with that statement. I feel like I am putting in all the effort into this relationship. I am trying to speak her love language and do things she likes. I don't see that in return, right now this relationship is one sided, in my opinion. This is where my resentment comes form and is only growing. I am starting to come to the end of my rope.

We have not been intimate in a month. Its really starting to get to me. June is my birthday, fathers day and took her out on a date (which didn't go perfect) and nothing. Not even a little kissing.

KML as far as raising our child. I guess it is the hardest job. I guess I remember my mom raising me and my 2 brothers. My dad did not get home till 6-7. My mom did it, didn't make my dad feel guilty for doing it and complained minimally. She tells me how exhausted she is, when I get home which is 2;30-3 I take over. Baby goes to bed at 7 every night. Maybe I have a warped mentality about raising a child and being able to handle it, because I saw how my mom did it.

Traveler, she is helping the bottom line. If we had to put the baby in child care it would probably eat up most of her salary. I get that. But then have some appreciation for me, have some respect for me.

I feel like she is bi polar ( I know she is not) One day she is sweet a s pie to me, next day, completely nasty to me. Her mood is all over the place. Father's Day was awesome. I had my 2 boys with me (No daughter) and she made it a great day. Made me feel so loved and appreciated. She did an awesome job and I told what a great day it was and how special she made it for me. Then yesterday, She says to me, did you hear about the supreme court ruling about carrying guns? Side note I am a republican conservative and she is a democrat liberal. I said I did. GF replied, this is going to cause more gun violence and its ridiculous that they are allowing people to carry wherever. She said what do I think about this? I said I think its good because now law abiding citizens will be able to defend themselves... and I went into my reason more. Well she got mad at me for my opinion and said, see I can't even talk to you, you are like a wall. GF then said she didn't want to talk about it anymore. I quickly scrolled online and said 50 democrats were for this too. She got even more mad and said I told you I don't want to talk about this anymore and stormed off. She didn't speak to me the rest of the day.
In my opinion, If she is going to ask for my opinion then she shouldn't get mad at it. Yeah maybe I should have stopped and not shown that little post. But this happens a lot. She will want to discuss something, give her opinion and when its my turn she doesn't like it, usually cuts me off and says she doesn't want to hear me anymore and walks away. I feel like I have no voice in this relationship and we struggle to have "adult" conversations. Either I agree with her or forget it. I am tired of having a partner I cannot talk to. We should be able to have mature conversations like 2 grown adults. This is one of those things once again. She told me to stop talking to her, stormed off and ignored me and my son the rest of the day. Yet, she will expect me to go to her and make this better. Just so you all know, I would say 90% of the time I usually do. Again, I feel like thats me putting in effort in the relationship and her having no problem letting these problems linger.
I am having such a hard time. I feel like I cannot communicate with her, at all. I feel like my feelings and opinions in this relationship don't matter. I am on the verge of ending it.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/24/22 04:48 PM
Man, Wolf, you just have a lot on your plate. I caution you to NOT compare the way your gf mothers to the way your mom mothered. You say your mom raised you and your brother and never complained, but you were a child, so you don't know what your mom was saying to your dad behind closed doors. She may very well have been complaining about being tired all the time just like your gf does. I'm sure you have heard that saying "comparison is a thief of joy". Get rid of ALL of your preconceived notions about who was a good mother and who was not and just support your gf in HER role as a mother (which you are doing, it sounds like, but just stop with the comparisons). Comparisons are what lead to resentment when someone doesn't "measure up" to some standard they don't even know they are being held to.
Posted By: kml Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/24/22 07:17 PM
Quote
I am a republican conservative and she is a democrat liberal.

This is probably not going to work out then - your values are way too different.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/29/22 01:34 PM
Dawn than k you for the advice. I will try and stop comparing.

KML- lol it’s very possible.

I have a very interesting situation come up. I feel like gf is trying to create an exit strategy. It’s just something I feel deep down. She wants to go back into flying (that was her real job before the pandemic, she got laid off) for a new company. Which means she would not be home a lot. This is the same gf who always said she wanted to be home with the kids until they went to school and was adamant that the baby would not go to child care. Now that’s what it would be. And for the last year on and off she has tried to convince me to let her put me on child support. First it was just in case my ex went for more child support. I explained that her putting me on child support would not change my support for my first 2 kids and my lawyer said the same. Yet she would on and off again try and convince me. Now she is saying, because child care is expensive, she found a program because we are not married, if she put me on child support, child care would be very cheap because she would qualify for this program. She mentioned it would be like $50 a month instead of hundreds. I still don’t feel comfortable, once you get on child support it’s very difficult to get off. I don’t have a good feeling in my gut. How do I explain to her I don’t want to go on child support, regardless if it’s going to make child care very cheap?
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/29/22 02:19 PM
Hi Wolf,

I would go in the opposite direction. A central DB tenant is to open the cage door. You know she is ethically and legally entitled to child support. Ask your attorney the range she would be awarded and pay her the minimum. Then, charge that amount in rent. You don't want her to stay with you because she feels trapped by $$$, especially $$$ she can easily obtain. Besides, it's all on paper unless you split, and in that case getting the minimum may delay her asking for the median.

Originally Posted by Wolf
I still don’t feel comfortable, once you get on child support it’s very difficult to get off. I don’t have a good feeling in my gut. How do I explain to her I don’t want to go on child support, regardless if it’s going to make child care very cheap?
If you choose that route, "I'm not open to voluntary child support." You don't need to explain, justify, etc. Those conversations have tended to go south for you. Listen and validate her feelings about your choice. Leave her to figure out next steps--dropping it, calling an attorney, or squirreling away money, etc. Offer to setup couples' therapy a.s.a.p. if she wants to discuss it.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 06/29/22 03:32 PM
Wolfman,
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I have a very interesting situation come up. I feel like gf is trying to create an exit strategy. It’s just something I feel deep down.
Trust your gut. Time to DB. Remember what I said two weeks ago...

Originally Posted by BL42
This almost sounds like a mini-BD. Are you DB'ing accordingly? Keep working on yourself and being a great dad, and learn how to attract her and make her feel like you want her to be your woman.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She wants to go back into flying (that was her real job before the pandemic, she got laid off) for a new company.
How much would she make relative to you in the job?

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Which means she would not be home a lot.
You live together, correct? She's living in your house or apartment?

Originally Posted by Traveler
Ask your attorney the range she would be awarded and pay her the minimum. Then, charge that amount in rent.
Interesting idea. Run it by an L. If she demands child support rent seems appropriate.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
And for the last year on and off she has tried to convince me to let her put me on child support. I still don’t feel comfortable, once you get on child support it’s very difficult to get off.
This is a big red flag. Time to consult an L on both support obligations and custody! Knowledge = power.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I don’t have a good feeling in my gut.
Trust your gut.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
How do I explain to her I don’t want to go on child support, regardless if it’s going to make child care very cheap?
"I'm not comfortable with that at this time."

Originally Posted by Traveler
"I'm not open to voluntary child support." You don't need to explain, justify, etc. Those conversations have tended to go south for you. Listen and validate her feelings about your choice. Leave her to figure out next steps--dropping it, calling an attorney, or squirreling away money, etc. Offer to setup couples' therapy a.s.a.p. if she wants to discuss it
^Agreed.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 07/05/22 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I need to come to this board more often i think.
Hey Wolf! How are things coming along?
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 07/20/22 04:59 PM
Hey Wolf! Been a month since we heard from you. I hope when you report back you'll have some positive news--e.g., you kept those weekly dates going and her heart is melting. Whatever the case, I hope you and your son are doing okay.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/03/22 12:12 PM
Originally Posted by Traveler
Hey Wolf! Been a month since we heard from you. I hope when you report back you'll have some positive news--e.g., you kept those weekly dates going and her heart is melting. Whatever the case, I hope you and your son are doing okay.

THanks for checking up on me. It’s been up and down. She dropped the whole child support thing. She never really felt comfortable with putting the baby in any day care. So, she didn’t pursue the flying job. Things are up and down. I just feel she is very immature and makes small little things into big problems. Yesterday I bbq chicken and burgers. GF went to a baby shower the other day and brought home some food. One of the things being Mac and cheese. My son loves that. So yesterday we were eating dinner all 4 of us. My s ate a little Mac and cheese and a burger. That was it. My son finished gave me a hug and said thanks. And went to the living room. GF replied that was Interesting. I said what was? Her reply, “he said thank you to you and not me.” I said well it because I bbq and he ate the burger. She said, well he had Mac and cheese and I brought that home for him. I said I know that but he didn’t know that. She says, he never says thank you to me. She said well I seasoned the chicken. I said I know but he didn’t eat the chicken. She goes this is what I mean I am not appreciated. I said he says thank you a lot. Her reply, he barely says it and doesn’t appreciate the things I do for him. My next response probably not the best, but I am getting fed up. She just looks for reasons to attack my son. I said are you just looking for an argument. She stormed off and left me with the baby. She went in the bedroom and closed the door.

My question to everyone is this. My s is 12. She expects him to say thank you for every little thing she does. Granted I speak to him because he should. Like when she does his laundry, she wants him to come to her and say thank you. Every night for dinner, when she cooks. To me, what 12 boy is going to do that. Her expectations are in my opinion ridiculous. If once and a while he doesn’t say it does that mean we need to get into an argument? Are my expectations too low or are here too high? I think about my friends kids, they don’t say thank you for every little thing?

The other thing is, I am tired of how she wants me to respond. She has a complaint which is often I am just supposed to say ok. Even if I think she is wrong or it is a mistake. The double standard too. She can do something, but if I do the same thing it’s a problem. I am getting fed up. It just has to be her way. Oh and she just told me she is not emotionally there. One of the contributing factors is the crazy ex and my s. She brings up how my situation causes her a lot of unnecessary stress. It’s like she wants me to get rid of my s, and then we wouldn’t have to deal with them anymore.
I work 2 jobs, we are financially tight, the minute I get home I take the baby, I help clean, I do most of the cooking in the summer (bbq). For her birthday I surprised her with a trip at the end of the summer to her country to see her family, even though money is really tight. I feel like I am in another relationship where what I do is not enough. Like I am supposed to me a submissive man and just bow down to these women. Which is not me and never will be.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/03/22 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I just feel she is very immature and makes small little things into big problems. Yesterday I bbq chicken and burgers.
Well I am guessing that is how it feels when you are in your 40s and your GF is in her 20s.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
GF went to a baby shower the other day and brought home some food. One of the things being Mac and cheese. My son loves that. So yesterday we were eating dinner all 4 of us. My s ate a little Mac and cheese and a burger. That was it. My son finished gave me a hug and said thanks. And went to the living room. GF replied that was Interesting. I said what was? Her reply, “he said thank you to you and not me.” I said well it because I bbq and he ate the burger. She said, well he had Mac and cheese and I brought that home for him. I said I know that but he didn’t know that. She says, he never says thank you to me. She said well I seasoned the chicken. I said I know but he didn’t eat the chicken. She goes this is what I mean I am not appreciated. I said he says thank you a lot. Her reply, he barely says it and doesn’t appreciate the things I do for him. My next response probably not the best, but I am getting fed up. She just looks for reasons to attack my son. I said are you just looking for an argument. She stormed off and left me with the baby. She went in the bedroom and closed the door.
Have you ever tried validation instead of discounting her feelings?
Originally Posted by Wolfman
My question to everyone is this. My s is 12. She expects him to say thank you for every little thing she does. Granted I speak to him because he should. Like when she does his laundry, she wants him to come to her and say thank you. Every night for dinner, when she cooks. To me, what 12 boy is going to do that.
I would say no for the laundry but yes for the cooking. That wouldn't hurt him.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Her expectations are in my opinion ridiculous. If once and a while he doesn’t say it does that mean we need to get into an argument? Are my expectations too low or are here too high? I think about my friends kids, they don’t say thank you for every little thing?
Again if you haven't learned that everyone is entitled to their feelings you have learned nothing here Wolfman.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
The other thing is, I am tired of how she wants me to respond. She has a complaint which is often I am just supposed to say ok. Even if I think she is wrong or it is a mistake. The double standard too.
Or uuummm validation.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Like I am supposed to me a submissive man and just bow down to these women. Which is not me and never will be.
I'd say right now she is wearing the pants my friend. So how can you change that?
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/03/22 02:25 PM
Thank you LH. I am not good at all at this validation. The age gap definitely plays a role too.
LH you said she is wearing the pants. I agree. I don’t know how to get it back. When I try to be a dominant male it turns into an argument. She always wants to be in control. I even see it with the baby. If he doesn’t listen to her, because he is a baby she gets frustrated. She just expects everyone to do what she says and that’s it. Even with the baby, if I do something different than what she says, forget it. I’m starting g to believe this might not be the right relationship. I will still try and make it work for the sake of the baby. Eventually when I feel I tried everything I might have to walk away. LH - the other thing is the feelings. I am tired of feelings. How about logic, how about evaluate the situation and understand that it’s not that bad. If we disagree, yes it can hurt someone’s feelings but to throw the whole situation out of proportion because you are not happy in the moment is ridiculous.

2 other things I want to talk about. Just had another conversation with GF.

1 that really struck me. She said she wants to feel madly in love with me all the time, like she can’t live without me and she doesn’t feel like that all the time. Is it just me, or does ANY relationship feel like that all the time? That is something in fairy tales. Just like my ex they feel life is supposed to be perfect all the time, and when it’s not, it’s the most horrible thing in the world.

2. This one is concerning. She is saying things that my ex has said I have done. That is I am causing her anxiety. My ex said the same thing. I don’t know what to do. I feel unless I am skipping around and happy all the time I cause them anxiety. The minute I am not happy or joking around I get called grumpy. I don’t get it, am I not allowed to have feelings. WhAt, am I just supposed to listen to everything they say and do what they say, can’t have an opinion on anything. So, I feel like this is something I am supposed to fix but I think they are asking the impossible.
I am supposed to be happy all the time, do what they say, and always worry about their feelings.
I am beyond confused. I feel when 2 women are telling me the same thing, there is some validity to it, but I also feel what they want me to do is the impossible.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/03/22 02:36 PM
Well wolf if I had to make a educated guess it is because you are so argumentative that they feel like they are walking on eggshells all the time. Every feeling they express to you becomes an argument because of your defensiveness.

Probably should have worked on this more before entering another relationship.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/03/22 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
Well wolf if I had to make a educated guess it is because you are so argumentative that they feel like they are walking on eggshells all the time. Every feeling they express to you becomes an argument because of your defensiveness.

Probably should have worked on this more before entering another relationship.

I hate to say this, but LH is right. If anyone ever expressed a feeling and they know they are going to get a defensive response, they are going to have anxiety and walk on eggshells all the time . And their perception is skewed, but I imagine they don’t want to feel madly in love all the time, but rather not feel like everything they say or do or feel is wrong
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/03/22 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by Ginger1
I hate to say this, but LH is right.
I love you too G-money!
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/03/22 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
Well wolf if I had to make a educated guess it is because you are so argumentative that they feel like they are walking on eggshells all the time. Every feeling they express to you becomes an argument because of your defensiveness.

Probably should have worked on this more before entering another relationship.

Thank you. How do I work on this. Let’s say if I think someone is wrong, how do I handle that then? Just always validate? I am so confused. I hate that I make these mistakes. I don’t want my loved ones to feel like that.

Originally Posted by Ginger1
Originally Posted by LH19
Well wolf if I had to make a educated guess it is because you are so argumentative that they feel like they are walking on eggshells all the time. Every feeling they express to you becomes an argument because of your defensiveness.

Probably should have worked on this more before entering another relationship.

I hate to say this, but LH is right. If anyone ever expressed a feeling and they know they are going to get a defensive response, they are going to have anxiety and walk on eggshells all the time . And their perception is skewed, but I imagine they don’t want to feel madly in love all the time, but rather not feel like everything they say or do or feel is wrong

Thank you Ginger. How do I communicate better than? Just listen and validate all the time? How do I respond how I feel then? Or if I really don’t agree with a position? Please help me and give me some examples. Ugh I am a dope at communication.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/03/22 03:28 PM
GF: I really feel your son never says thank you when I cook him.
W: So you are saying you feel taken for granted?
GF: Yes
W: Ok I will have a talk with him


W: Son GF feels unappreciated when you don't thank her for things she does for you.
Son: ok dad I will next time
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/03/22 03:36 PM
Now if you have the talk with son and he respects your wishes and you know he is saying Thank you and your GF still says he doesn't you call her on her BS.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/03/22 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
2. This one is concerning. She is saying things that my ex has said I have done. That is I am causing her anxiety. My ex said the same thing. I don’t know what to do. I feel unless I am skipping around and happy all the time I cause them anxiety. The minute I am not happy or joking around I get called grumpy. I don’t get it, am I not allowed to have feelings. WhAt, am I just supposed to listen to everything they say and do what they say, can’t have an opinion on anything. So, I feel like this is something I am supposed to fix but I think they are asking the impossible.
I am supposed to be happy all the time, do what they say, and always worry about their feelings.
I am beyond confused. I feel when 2 women are telling me the same thing, there is some validity to it, but I also feel what they want me to do is the impossible.


Is she right ??

How many times in the middle of these talks, do you hear your Ex's voice and fall back into old triggers ???

How often are your responses the same as they were with your Ex ???
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/03/22 04:09 PM
Hi Wolfman,

You say you want to project masculine energy--and you are older and wiser than your partner--so lead! Leading is more guiding than controlling. How many weekly dates have you invited her on? What are you doing to address your tendency to RightFight vs Validate? We all have weaknesses. Like my inclination to clutter a home, you can let it continue unchecked, or you can take concrete steps to work on it. IC could help, but so could books like "The Lost Art of Listening".

Originally Posted by Wolfman
GF went to a baby shower the other day and brought home some food. One of the things being Mac and cheese. My son loves that. So yesterday we were eating dinner all 4 of us. My s ate a little Mac and cheese and a burger. That was it. My son finished gave me a hug and said thanks. And went to the living room. GF replied that was Interesting. I said what was? Her reply, “he said thank you to you and not me.” I said well it because I bbq and he ate the burger. She said, well he had Mac and cheese and I brought that home for him. I said I know that but he didn’t know that. She says, he never says thank you to me. She said well I seasoned the chicken. I said I know but he didn’t eat the chicken. She goes this is what I mean I am not appreciated. I said he says thank you a lot. Her reply, he barely says it and doesn’t appreciate the things I do for him. My next response probably not the best, but I am getting fed up. She just looks for reasons to attack my son. I said are you just looking for an argument. She stormed off and left me with the baby. She went in the bedroom and closed the door.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Thank you Ginger. How do I communicate better than? Just listen and validate all the time?

Let's take the above: "He said thank you to you and not me. I said well it because.."

So, step 1 would be simply ACCEPTING other people's feelings without judging them as right or wrong and trying to mount logical arguments against them. In this situation, my gut is to say, "You didn't feel appreciated for getting the mac and cheese that he loves." We don't directly control our feelings. She isn't right or wrong for feeling hurt and unappreciated. As you show you're willing to listen and understand she may choose to open up more.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
How do I respond how I feel then?
When I was in couples' therapy, my therapist said the right time was after the other person is completely done expressing themselves and feels I've heard and understood them.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Or if I really don’t agree with a position?
Your GF feels HURT and UNAPPRECIATED. She is your position! Support her. If you mean, "What if I believe my son behaved correctly in this situation?" or "What if she demands some punishment I don't agree with?"--then you would listen and validate her feelings, but say "No, that doesn't work for me" and not talk to your son afterward.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/04/22 02:17 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
GF: I really feel your son never says thank you when I cook him.
W: So you are saying you feel taken for granted?
GF: Yes
W: Ok I will have a talk with him


W: Son GF feels unappreciated when you don't thank her for things she does for you.
Son: ok dad I will next time

LH thank you for this. I want to be honest, that does not feel normal or natural for me. Hence why she probably feels anxious. I will definitely work on that. I need to really do a better job with that.
Originally Posted by Mach1
Originally Posted by Wolfman
2. This one is concerning. She is saying things that my ex has said I have done. That is I am causing her anxiety. My ex said the same thing. I don’t know what to do. I feel unless I am skipping around and happy all the time I cause them anxiety. The minute I am not happy or joking around I get called grumpy. I don’t get it, am I not allowed to have feelings. WhAt, am I just supposed to listen to everything they say and do what they say, can’t have an opinion on anything. So, I feel like this is something I am supposed to fix but I think they are asking the impossible.
I am supposed to be happy all the time, do what they say, and always worry about their feelings.
I am beyond confused. I feel when 2 women are telling me the same thing, there is some validity to it, but I also feel what they want me to do is the impossible.


Is she right ??

How many times in the middle of these talks, do you hear your Ex's voice and fall back into old triggers ???

How often are your responses the same as they were with your Ex ???

I hear my ex’s voice a lot in this “arguments” and then I get defensive. A lot of times my response is the same. Hence why I am here and trying to improve. I don’t know what it is about me, but I feel like I need to explain my side. I have a real problem, and that is being wrong. Not good, definitely need to work on it.

Traveler. I need to work on the leading. I am definitely working on that. As far as going on dates, we have only done 2. I am going to plan another one.
The whole feelings thing, working on understanding that. I didn’t have any sisters growing up and my mom was tough. She worked hard and did what she had to do. So this whole feelings thing, I am not used to. If you didn’t have a broken bone or dying in the house, you were fine and move on. I know that carried over with me. That’s why I say I am not used to feelings. No one had any in my house. Lol
Posted By: kml Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/04/22 03:54 PM
I have a question. You said you're working two jobs and money is really tight. I understand that divorce is expensive and you have child support to pay. But are there other factors causing money to be so tight? I mean, just having another adult in the household isn't all that expensive on its own.

Also, is there anything you can do to up your income or reduce your expenses?
Posted By: Mach1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/04/22 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I hear my ex’s voice a lot in this “arguments” and then I get defensive. A lot of times my response is the same. Hence why I am here and trying to improve. I don’t know what it is about me, but I feel like I need to explain my side. I have a real problem, and that is being wrong. Not good, definitely need to work on it.



Are you trying to be heard ?

Or trying to have your opinion the only one that matters ?

Why is it so important for you to be right ?

And TBH....

IF you don't know what it is, and you are still hearing your Ex's voice when your new partner speaks, then you probably shouldn't have involved another person so soon after your relationship ended...

You've basically been proving Einstein's theory of insanity correct...

Doing the same things over and over while expecting a different result..

So far, I feel as if you've been clipping the top off of the Dandelion instead of killing the root. And it just keeps growing again and again....

Soooo...


Not that you ARE like that (defensive)...

WHY are you like that ????

It seems that you come here for your fix of the right things to say or do, then fall back into old behaviors and words....

Because you are clipping the top....

Not the root....




Originally Posted by Wolfman
The whole feelings thing, working on understanding that. I didn’t have any sisters growing up and my mom was tough. She worked hard and did what she had to do. So this whole feelings thing, I am not used to. If you didn’t have a broken bone or dying in the house, you were fine and move on. I know that carried over with me. That’s why I say I am not used to feelings. No one had any in my house. Lol



While it seems that to be the case...



I think that you have found the exact excuse that you need, to not do better....



And IF you know that ...

Then why aren't you addressing that ?


You are the only one responsible for your behaviors, words, and actions....




And bottom line here....



YOU are responsible for teaching YOUR son how to treat a Woman....
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/04/22 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by kml
I have a question. You said you're working two jobs and money is really tight. I understand that divorce is expensive and you have child support to pay. But are there other factors causing money to be so tight? I mean, just having another adult in the household isn't all that expensive on its own.

Also, is there anything you can do to up your income or reduce your expenses?
Great point! Wolf, I can't overstate how much difference truly focusing on my expenses has made. I hated looking at them before, because it felt like carrying a pitcher full of rainwater with so many small holes in the bottom of the pitcher it would eventually empty no matter how much it rained. Each time a new leak sprung it was an existential crisis. But, working at plugging holes daily, only the new surprise holes leak anymore, and soon I expect to be collecting water again.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/04/22 05:18 PM
I agree with Mach in that YOU are responsible for you and the onus is on you to teach your son how to treat women. I’ve said to you many times before that I interpret your posts here as someone who is always trying to be right. Go back and look how many times someone points something out to you only for you to respond with something like “yes, but…..(insert random excuse here)”. Now, I’m not saying you are always wrong. Heck, I’m not even saying you aren’t always right. What I am saying is you seem dead set on it being your way or the highway but you want to act like that isn’t the case. You say you’re bad at validating and you aren’t used to feelings because there were none in your house when you were a child but, as Mach pointed out, that seems to be a bit of an excuse to not really deal with stuff. It’s also a convenient excuse to deflect advice you are given. So validating isn’t your natural setting. I get that. It isn’t a lot of people’s natural setting. It’s a skill you have to work on.

As far as your son saying thank you, he’s 12 and there’s no reason he can’t be learning to do his own laundry so if I was in your gf’s position, yeah, I would want him to show some appreciation that I’m washing his underwear. I wouldn’t need it every single time but a random thank you here and there would be good. Food is a bit different but still a random thank you here and there isn’t a bad thing. To me that seems like such a small and random thing to be upset about. If she’s demanding that he bow down and kiss her feet every single time she does anything, that’s unreasonable, but to expect the occasional thank you is not outline. Now, I’m full disclosure, I do think, at least according to your own telling of the story, your gf seems pretty insecure and made a bigger deal out of the no thank you for mac and cheese. But to her it was a big deal so there is that.

I don’t know, Wolf. To me it is kind of like throwing the baby out with the bath water but it just seems like there are a lot of issues that you should’ve worked through personally apart from each other before getting in a relationship. And I’m NOT just talking about you.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/04/22 05:49 PM
Wolf, I definitely get growing up not learning to actively listen and validate. I learned those after BD! As I mentioned, a great book on the subject is "The Lost Art of Listening". If you invest time into that now it'll not only help with your GF but also your kids--your son will soon become a teenager and at some point you will get another shot with your daughter.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/05/22 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by kml
I have a question. You said you're working two jobs and money is really tight. I understand that divorce is expensive and you have child support to pay. But are there other factors causing money to be so tight? I mean, just having another adult in the household isn't all that expensive on its own.

Also, is there anything you can do to up your income or reduce your expenses?
Between child support, my mortgage, utilities it [censored] me dry. My second job is commission only and I haven’t made any sales in months. That usually supplements me. That’s been hurting.

Mach1 I am trying to be heard, but it’s like my opinion does t matter. I didn’t mean to get into another relationship so fast. I have realized for a while it was too soon. But I can’t look back, I can only move forward. I am not looking for excuses, try to explain why I think I have a hard time with the validating. The part I mentioned about not having sisters. Trust me I know it seems like I am repeating the same old behaviors but I do catch myself a lot before I make those mistakes. I just let you all know when I make them, then the problems that occur.

Dawn you are absolutely right. Many times it has been expressed to me about me trying to be right. I don’t know what it is with me and that. I really don’t. And I am sorry to all of you for pointing it out to me, for me to only come on at another time and say I made the mistake again. I need to really did deep in myself and understand better what that is. I had so much work I needed to put into myself. I didn’t!!! I was spinning out of control and at the time (not an excuse just telling you what I was feeling and thinking) I was hoping another relationship would just make all the pain go away. Wrong way of thinking, again I have known that for a while now. Just trying to move forward. As far as my son, I speak to him all the time about being respectful. It has got better with him but there is still room to work on.

Originally Posted by Traveler
Wolf, I definitely get growing up not learning to actively listen and validate. I learned those after BD! As I mentioned, a great book on the subject is "The Lost Art of Listening". If you invest time into that now it'll not only help with your GF but also your kids--your son will soon become a teenager and at some point you will get another shot with your daughter.
Thank you for the suggestion, I will look into that book. I REALLY HOPE ONE DAY I CAN HAVE MY DAUGHTER IN MY LIFE AGAIN. I miss her sooooooo much.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/05/22 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Mach1 I am trying to be heard, but it’s like my opinion does t matter.

I didn’t mean to get into another relationship so fast. I have realized for a while it was too soon. But I can’t look back, I can only move forward.

I am not looking for excuses, try to explain why I think I have a hard time with the validating. The part I mentioned about not having sisters.


Trust me I know it seems like I am repeating the same old behaviors but I do catch myself a lot before I make those mistakes.

I just let you all know when I make them, then the problems that occur.


^^^^^



Still more excuses....


The "buts" are your excuse for not doing better....

The "buts" make you an exception to everything proceeding them...

The "buts" keep you stuck in the same behavioral patterns that you allow yourself to have....

And that you know it, and still act on it makes it 10 times worse....


Then you come here, "let us know that you made them", possibly for the attention that you feel you aren't getting elsewhere, because you don't feel validated at home....




Tell me how I'm wrong .....
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/05/22 06:13 PM
Here is a minor situation that came up yesterday. Let me all know what you think, I will outline my day and also what happened. This way it all comes together.
I get up at 4:30am to get to the gym by 5am.
I get home at 6am gf is in bed. I jump in the shower. Start to get ready, gf wakes up and starts to pump. Baby starts to wake up, I grab him and change his diaper. Out the door for work by 6:35.
Work and get home at 12. Bay is napping when I get home. Gf has lunch ready for me. She tells me she is tired and going to take a nap. I eat my lunch then go and fix her ac (about 20 minutes). Then run to the store. Get home baby and gf are sleeping. Got to sit on the couch, 15 minutes baby is waking up, gf asks me to grab baby, I also change his diaper. She prepared his lunch I feed it to him. Just as I finish feed him. She says to me, “I guess I will clean his dishes since I am the only one that does that.” I didn’t say anything. Just so you all know I do it 50% of the time. So now I take the baby out and start playing with him in the play area. I do that for about a half an hour. I come back to where she was and she now looks annoyed. I ask everything ok? She said no, I am just a maid around here. So I asked how can I help? What would you like me to do? She said if you just helped and cleaned up. I said sure and starred to help straighten up the kitchen. And then I had to leave to pick up my son.

I feel very taken for granted. I don’t stop ever in the house. When I do she lets me know for sure. But if she is tired or overwhelmed, I tell her to relax or take a break or I got it. I don’t tell her what she is t doing. She tell me very often the things I am “not doing”. I feel like I do so much and help so much and she is getting g used to it, that when I am not going nonstop, she feels like I am not doing anything. Once again, I pay all the bills, including her car insurance and cell phone, I feed the baby when I am home, change diapers, help clean work 2 jobs, the. Have the nerve to make comments like that. I just don’t feel that is right. But I didn’t get defensive or try to explain what I do. Honestly, her first comment about if she doesn’t do it, it won’t get done caught me off guard, I didn’t know how to validate that, that’s why I just took the baby to another room.
I feel just like with my ex, I try to help out and the more I do; the more they expect and the less they do. And the. Criticize me when I don’t do everything all the time. How would she feel if I worked a 9-5 job and didn’t get home until 6 everyday? Some days, honestly I just feel like I am going to collapse. But I am supposed to be the man and take on everything. I am not supposed to get tired, or sad, or mad. Just be happy and go all day and night I guess.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/05/22 06:29 PM
Wolf,

Originally Posted by Wolf
"I guess I will clean his dishes since I am the only one that does that.” I didn’t say anything. Just so you all know I do it 50% of the time. So now I take the baby out and start playing with him in the play area. I do that for about a half an hour. I come back to where she was and she now looks annoyed. I ask everything ok? She said no, I am just a maid around here. So I asked how can I help?

I mean, you sound like a typical guy who wants to FixIt and has never learned to Listen&Validate.

Exercise: Google, "It's Not About The Nail"

That 2-minute video helped me began my journey to learn to Listen&Validate--I believe it was shared by AnotherStander, a wise member here who moved on. Another great one is the 5-minute TED Talk by Brene Brown on Empathy. Less than 10 minutes and you may have a better idea what your goalposts are. May they help you begin your journey!
Posted By: Mach1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/05/22 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Here is a minor situation that came up yesterday. Let me all know what you think, I will outline my day and also what happened. This way it all comes together.
I get up at 4:30am to get to the gym by 5am.
I get home at 6am gf is in bed. I jump in the shower. Start to get ready, gf wakes up and starts to pump. Baby starts to wake up, I grab him and change his diaper. Out the door for work by 6:35.
Work and get home at 12. Bay is napping when I get home. Gf has lunch ready for me. She tells me she is tired and going to take a nap. I eat my lunch then go and fix her ac (about 20 minutes). Then run to the store. Get home baby and gf are sleeping. Got to sit on the couch, 15 minutes baby is waking up, gf asks me to grab baby, I also change his diaper. She prepared his lunch I feed it to him. Just as I finish feed him. She says to me, “I guess I will clean his dishes since I am the only one that does that.” I didn’t say anything. Just so you all know I do it 50% of the time. So now I take the baby out and start playing with him in the play area. I do that for about a half an hour. I come back to where she was and she now looks annoyed. I ask everything ok? She said no, I am just a maid around here. So I asked how can I help? What would you like me to do? She said if you just helped and cleaned up. I said sure and starred to help straighten up the kitchen. And then I had to leave to pick up my son.

I feel very taken for granted. I don’t stop ever in the house. When I do she lets me know for sure. But if she is tired or overwhelmed, I tell her to relax or take a break or I got it. I don’t tell her what she is t doing. She tell me very often the things I am “not doing”. I feel like I do so much and help so much and she is getting g used to it, that when I am not going nonstop, she feels like I am not doing anything. Once again, I pay all the bills, including her car insurance and cell phone, I feed the baby when I am home, change diapers, help clean work 2 jobs, the. Have the nerve to make comments like that. I just don’t feel that is right. But I didn’t get defensive or try to explain what I do. Honestly, her first comment about if she doesn’t do it, it won’t get done caught me off guard, I didn’t know how to validate that, that’s why I just took the baby to another room.
I feel just like with my ex, I try to help out and the more I do; the more they expect and the less they do. And the. Criticize me when I don’t do everything all the time. How would she feel if I worked a 9-5 job and didn’t get home until 6 everyday? Some days, honestly I just feel like I am going to collapse. But I am supposed to be the man and take on everything. I am not supposed to get tired, or sad, or mad. Just be happy and go all day and night I guess.




You're not a Martyr Wolf...So maybe stop acting that way.


No matter how crappy they are at the moment...

They are still YOUR decision that you made...


I would venture a guess that neither of you are too happy with yourself about the way you are handling things...

Have you ever sat down with her and calmly explained that....

When you say ______ I feel _____________


When you do __________I feel ________


??????


I would say that you BOTH are making excuses to treat each other poorly...

I think that you BOTH have expectations of what you each think this should be, and neither of you are either willing, or capable of verbalizing those expectations...and appreciating what the other is going through....



Unspoken expectations often lead to unresolvable resentments....



Let me give you an assignment here....

Sometime soon, walk up behind her and whisper in her ear....

Name one thing that you would like to have done today, that you totally hate doing, and I will do it , no questions asked....

And then follow it through.....


See if that changes the dynamic a bit....
Posted By: bttrfly Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/06/22 02:12 AM
Originally Posted by Mach1
Let me give you an assignment here....

Sometime soon, walk up behind her and whisper in her ear....

Name one thing that you would like to have done today, that you totally hate doing, and I will do it , no questions asked....

And then follow it through.....


See if that changes the dynamic a bit....

woman's perspective: you would definitely get my attention if you did this Wolfman. I hope you take Mach's advice and come back to let us know what happened.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/06/22 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I didn’t say anything. Just so you all know I do it 50% of the time. I feel just like with my ex, I try to help out and the more I do; the more they expect and the less they do. don’t stop ever in the house. And the. Criticize me when I don’t do everything all the time.
You're responsible for doing 50% of the chores outside your work hours. I agree going beyond 55%. is not the answer. If the load's overwhelming, start tracking what you're both doing, and consider what you can drop. Dawn encouraged me to drop washing dishes and use paper plates and plastic utensils, and that was a great idea for a spell. I don't always make my bed or shine my sink and the world doesn't implode. As much as I love making fancy dinners, sometimes an $8 Tombstone pizza is just the ticket. Getting at least some chill time with my family and by myself daily trumps most chores.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/06/22 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Between child support, my mortgage, utilities it [censored] me dry. My second job is commission only and I haven’t made any sales in months. That usually supplements me. That’s been hurting.
It's hard to imagine a budget without some fat. You probably know I've trimmed $1500/mo off of mine. You may not know I helped a friend who had "nothing to cut" cut $200/mo. If your second job isn't generating income, could you spend 30min/day to cut expenses? Some places I cut expenses--negotiating with my gym, negotiating with my Internet/phone company, switching auto insurance, reducing electricity use, etc. Many of these bills are not as "fixed" as they may appear.

I'm just saying--fewer chores and expenses may make life easier!
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/06/22 10:04 PM
PS - Wolf, I don't see you as "playing the martyr" in this situation. You've already acknowledged you rushed into this relationship and could work on some skills. Your GF's immaturity and insecurity is also playing a role. As my MC used to say, you're the one showing up to improve the relationship, and given you have a baby together that's wise. Props. I'm rooting for you to pick 1-2 areas to improve: taking her on more regular dates, listening and validation, gratitude for her contributions, trimming your budget, trimming your chores--and seeing how your life improves! I'd love for your weeks to include a sense of satisfaction, good sex, and contentedness like mine. Peace, and don't wait a month to return. wink
Posted By: bttrfly Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/07/22 12:24 AM
Something very detrimental to a marriage or partnership is keeping score. Keeping score focuses attention on the other, not on one's own behaviors. It's pretty hard to do any kind of personal growth if one is focused on the other.

OTOH, it's a great way to cultivate resentments when one is keeping score.

Put another way: how would you feel if your partner kept a tally on you?

It's easy to feel overwhelmed with an infant or tiny human. For something so itty bitty, it sure takes a lot of time and effort and energy to keep those wee ones thriving. The overwhelm is different for men and women from a purely biological perspective; it's not a pi$$ing contest of one person being more exhausted and overwhelmed than the other, or one doing more than the other.

The question is what do you do with it?

How important is the relationship to you? Can each of you separate out the very short term and real heavy duty lifting needed in the first years of a baby's life to see the long term for this relationship?

Many years ago I heard this: every time you point the finger at someone else, three are coming back at you.

Look at yourself, your own behavior.

What about this triggers you?

What about this can you change?

As counter-intuitive as it sounds, dig deeper - for patience, for understanding, for compassion for both your partner and yourself.

Lead with love and see what happens.

Just some suggestions.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 08/14/22 08:07 PM
Hi Wolfman,

It's been a week! Which suggestions did you try and what's changed? Which suggestions can you commit to trying this week and what are you hoping will change?
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/13/22 01:27 PM
Hey everyone. Sorry for being gone. Got really busy. I watched it’s not about the nail. That is so me. Just trying to fix, knowing me, I would have argued about taking the nail out. I just want to fix things and move on. I still have a lot of work with validation and understanding. Old behaviors die hard.

Mach- first I am not playing martyr. I am explaining what is going on. Looking for support and advice. I don’t have anyone close to me I trust. So, I come here. You asked if I have explained to her what I feel and when she says or does certain things how it makes me feel. It gets me nowhere. She either doesn’t listen or has excuses. Example:She is very busy throughout the day, the baby, cleaning and cooking. I get it. Once in a while I like to show her I love her and appreciate her, so, while she is let’s say washing dishes, I will come up behind her and put my arms around her and kiss her on the cheek. She will either get annoyed or tell me she is busy not right now. Ok I understand. At night then (not the same day) I will wait till she gets in bed when she is no longer busy. I will go over and start to kiss her and she will say she is tired. So I explained to her, when she does that I feel neglected, I feel like I don’t matter and I am at the bottom of her list. That the home is more important, cleaning is more important. I explain when I come up behind her I am not looking to take up a lot of her time. A simple reciprocal kiss and that is it. Not pushing me away. She will get defensive and say if she stops things won’t get done, and that she is tired and she just wants to finish. I said I understand you are very busy and everything you do is tiresome. I even ask how can I help take some of the burden off? She would just say she doesn’t have time and how tired she is all the time. Then I asked when is there us time? She responded I don’t know. So Mach, I do explain what she does and how it makes me feel, it doesn’t change anything.

Mach- I will try this, Name one thing that you would like to have done today, that you totally hate doing, and I will do it , no questions asked....
I’ll let you know how it goes.
I have to run shortly, I have so much to talk about. Real quick, gf birthday was July I surprised her with a trip to Central America (one of the country’s she has family in) the trip was at the end of August. Went and visited her family and a couple of days I rented a house on a lake for a few days. We had an amazing time. This wasn’t easy for me financially had to go into my savings. But I wanted to do something special for her and get away from it all. But when we got back argument after argument. I talk about those next post.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/13/22 02:00 PM
Wolfman,

Good to hear from you.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I watched it’s not about the nail. That is so me. Just trying to fix, knowing me, I would have argued about taking the nail out. I just want to fix things and move on.
That video is great. Women and men both relate to it; really demonstrates the two almost opposing approaches. I first watched it at a work leadership seminar years ago and then brought it up with my IC - who loved it - during the heart of my sitch when we were talking about empathy and listening vs. fixing.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I still have a lot of work with validation and understanding. Old behaviors die hard.
Good you recognize and are working on it - that's a key step.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Example:She is very busy throughout the day, the baby, cleaning and cooking. I get it. Once in a while I like to show her I love her and appreciate her, so, while she is let’s say washing dishes, I will come up behind her and put my arms around her and kiss her on the cheek. She will either get annoyed or tell me she is busy not right now. Ok I understand. At night then (not the same day) I will wait till she gets in bed when she is no longer busy. I will go over and start to kiss her and she will say she is tired.
It could be she's exhausted from caring for the baby and hasn't had any personal space due to the baby and really doesn't feel like touching anyone. Or...it could be because of her negative feelings towards you (your fault or not) she's repulsed and backing away from you. I remember my then-W backing off from a hug from behind in the kitchen or a kiss after work a month or two before BD and not thinking much of it at the time - thought it was a temporary thing - but now with hindsight realizing she was probably thinking of leaving and didn't want to be loving/physically touched.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
So I explained to her, when she does that I feel neglected, I feel like I don’t matter and I am at the bottom of her list.
Imo it's good you're verbalizing your needs. It's important to communicate those clearly so resentment doesn't build up.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Mach- I will try this, Name one thing that you would like to have done today, that you totally hate doing, and I will do it , no questions asked....
I’ll let you know how it goes.
I like this idea. And keep it up over and over even if she doesn't appreciate it the first or second time. Perhaps she just won't ever, but maybe over time she'll soften. Either way, at least you're acting in the R as you should serving out of love.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Real quick, gf birthday was July I surprised her with a trip to Central America (one of the country’s she has family in) the trip was at the end of August. Went and visited her family and a couple of days I rented a house on a lake for a few days. We had an amazing time. This wasn’t easy for me financially had to go into my savings. But I wanted to do something special for her and get away from it all. But when we got back argument after argument.
That sounds like an incredibly thoughtful gesture. Maybe she fell back into patterns on returned, but I wonder if she wasn't in a mindset to fully appreciate it at the moment due to her feelings. Remember in DB'ing no gifts or gestures which cause pressure? I don't know, maybe others disagree.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/13/22 02:05 PM
I’m confused. You say you come up behind her and hug and kiss her to show her she is loved and appreciated, however she annoyed by it. Then it becomes that YOU feel neglected. Basically you are showing her she is loved and appreciated in the way you want to be loved and appreciated, not her.
Have you thought of showing her she is loved and appreciated in the way she wants to be, not the way you want to do it ? It’s the basics of the 5 LL.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/13/22 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Once in a while I like to show her I love her and appreciate her, so, while she is let’s say washing dishes, I will come up behind her and put my arms around her and kiss her on the cheek. She will either get annoyed or tell me she is busy not right now.
To piggy back off what Ginger said unless her LL is physical touch this means nothing to her. She sees it as all about you trying to get a piece of a$$.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I even ask how can I help take some of the burden off? She would just say she doesn’t have time and how tired she is all the time. Then I asked when is there us time? She responded I don’t know.
Don't ask. Lead. Take charge.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
So Mach, I do explain what she does and how it makes me feel, it doesn’t change anything.
Sounds like she doesn't care. I have a lot of friends in your boat who do nothing hoping things will change. They usually don't change on there own.

For a relationship to be successful both people need to be willing to blow it up on occasion, argue it out and be prepared to walk if a compromise can't be reached. That takes a lot of strength and self-confidence. For more often people stuff it down and pave over it and eventually you're sitting on a volcano that's ready to blow. This typically takes many years but you somehow managed to get there in a couple Wolf.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/13/22 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Mach- first I am not playing martyr. I am explaining what is going on. Looking for support and advice. I don’t have anyone close to me I trust. So, I come here. You asked if I have explained to her what I feel and when she says or does certain things how it makes me feel. It gets me nowhere. She either doesn’t listen or has excuses. Example:She is very busy throughout the day, the baby, cleaning and cooking. I get it. Once in a while I like to show her I love her and appreciate her, so, while she is let’s say washing dishes, I will come up behind her and put my arms around her and kiss her on the cheek. She will either get annoyed or tell me she is busy not right now. Ok I understand. At night then (not the same day) I will wait till she gets in bed when she is no longer busy. I will go over and start to kiss her and she will say she is tired. So I explained to her, when she does that I feel neglected, I feel like I don’t matter and I am at the bottom of her list. That the home is more important, cleaning is more important. I explain when I come up behind her I am not looking to take up a lot of her time. A simple reciprocal kiss and that is it. Not pushing me away. She will get defensive and say if she stops things won’t get done, and that she is tired and she just wants to finish. I said I understand you are very busy and everything you do is tiresome. I even ask how can I help take some of the burden off? She would just say she doesn’t have time and how tired she is all the time. Then I asked when is there us time? She responded I don’t know. So Mach, I do explain what she does and how it makes me feel, it doesn’t change anything.

To just support what Ginger said, it sounds like you try physical “moves” to show her love and when she doesn’t reciprocate, you feel rejected and then you make it about your feelings and how she rejected you. To agree with what LH said, if physical touch isn’t her thing, what you are doing is about as effective as spitting in the wind. Ask her how she feels and then listen. I kind of see the same thing Mach does…the martyr thing, because you always seem to turn situations to how you feel or how they effect you. Like LH said, take the lead and just do stuff for her without first asking her what she wants you to do. If you are unsure what to do, pay close attention to what she is doing then jump in. Call her up on your way home from work and tell her to relax and not worry about dinner because you are picking something up, then grab some carry out that she enjoys. Bring it home, set the table, fix her plate, ask how her day was, wait on her and let her just relax and LISTEN to her when she tells you about her day. Don’t automatically cut her off to tell her about your day or to complain about how tired you are. Of course you are, but she doesn’t need to hear it in that moment.
Posted By: kml Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/13/22 04:33 PM
The most exhausting job I ever did was caring for my children when they were young - and I used to work 12 hour shifts as a physician at a very busy urgent care center!

And yes, when you have a baby hanging off you and needing something from you all day long, a partner touching you or wanting some attention from you can feel like just another chore.

Do you have a trusted sitter yet so you can go out on date nights together?
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/13/22 04:53 PM
I imagine if instead of coming up behind her kissing her while she is in the middle of a chore no one likes, if you came up to her and said “ why don’t you go relax and do something for yourself and I’ll finish the dishes” THAT would show love and appreciation.
Posted By: kml Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/13/22 05:01 PM
Bingo
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/13/22 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by Ginger1
I imagine if instead of coming up behind her kissing her while she is in the middle of a chore no one likes, if you came up to her and said “ why don’t you go relax and do something for yourself and I’ll finish the dishes” THAT would show love and appreciation.
Yes!!! Omigosh, that would've been so attractive when my kids were little.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/13/22 05:33 PM
Definition of martyr

mar·​tyr | \ ˈmär-tər \


1: a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion

2: a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle
a martyr to the cause of freedom

3: VICTIM
especially : a great or constant sufferer



Originally Posted by Wolfman
Mach- first I am not playing martyr. I am explaining what is going on. Looking for support and advice. I don’t have anyone close to me I trust. So, I come here. You asked if I have explained to her what I feel and when she says or does certain things how it makes me feel. It gets me nowhere. She either doesn’t listen or has excuses. Example:She is very busy throughout the day, the baby, cleaning and cooking. I get it. Once in a while I like to show her I love her and appreciate her, so, while she is let’s say washing dishes, I will come up behind her and put my arms around her and kiss her on the cheek. She will either get annoyed or tell me she is busy not right now. Ok I understand. At night then (not the same day) I will wait till she gets in bed when she is no longer busy. I will go over and start to kiss her and she will say she is tired. So I explained to her, when she does that I feel neglected, I feel like I don’t matter and I am at the bottom of her list. That the home is more important, cleaning is more important. I explain when I come up behind her I am not looking to take up a lot of her time. A simple reciprocal kiss and that is it. Not pushing me away. She will get defensive and say if she stops things won’t get done, and that she is tired and she just wants to finish. I said I understand you are very busy and everything you do is tiresome. I even ask how can I help take some of the burden off? She would just say she doesn’t have time and how tired she is all the time. Then I asked when is there us time? She responded I don’t know. So Mach, I do explain what she does and how it makes me feel, it doesn’t change anything.

I'm not buying it....

Every thing about that ^^^ up there tells me differently...

Much of what I would say has been covered above with some really great posts..

What are you truly expecting when you kiss her, let's say, doing the dishes ?

When she is in bed ?

And the 'once in a while' showing of love and appreciation..

Are you showing her love and appreciation the way that SHE needs it ?

Or the way that YOU need it ?

Because everything you said up there was all just talk.

Nothing up there told me how your actions showed Love and Appreciation...

There is a HUGE difference between what CAN happen walking up behind a Woman doing dishes and kissing her neck....

A kiss based on past behavior of it leading to sex, yea, not gonna happen to a busy Mama....

A kiss based on understanding and participation in your daily life, perhaps one with you telling her that you 'got this, and your bath is run' Then the consistent action of following through and showing her that you "got it"...

???


Your expectations while doing so play a huge role in this. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

You said in the past that you didn't want to do more than your 50% of things.....

Who keeps track of that ?

50% could be as easy as you do everything this year, and she does them next year....

Scorekeeping will get you nowhere FAST...





And even as much as I think that ^^ is BS....

The line that is above all, what I would assume the most offensive is...

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She is very busy throughout the day, the baby, cleaning and cooking. I get it.

I'm not convinced that you do "get it".....


Because if you have to ask what you can do to "help"??

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I said I understand you are very busy and everything you do is tiresome. I even ask how can I help take some of the burden off?

Then you really do not understand....


At the end of the day Wolf, you CHOSE this....

Playing the Martyr that you refuse to see, allows you to convince people that you are a victim of this...

Is it really her not keeping her end of the deal ?

You not keeping your end ?

Or possibly that neither of you even realize what the deal actually is now...



DBing is quite an effective tool for detaching after your bomb, and during your stand.

However, detachment serves no purpose in maintaining an active relationship.

The premise of DBing does apply, and that is to do what works, and from this day forward.....






Originally Posted by Wolfman
I have to run shortly, I have so much to talk about. Real quick, gf birthday was July I surprised her with a trip to Central America (one of the country’s she has family in) the trip was at the end of August. Went and visited her family and a couple of days I rented a house on a lake for a few days. We had an amazing time. This wasn’t easy for me financially had to go into my savings. But I wanted to do something special for her and get away from it all. But when we got back argument after argument..

Why would you say that it became different, and what prompted the argument after argument ???



Support and advice....

Well, you have been receiving some really great advice you've been ignoring for some time now.....

Support ?

You seem to have an excellent level of consistency, keep that up...
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/14/22 06:16 AM
Hi Wolfman,

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Once in a while I like to show her I love her and appreciate her, so, while she is let’s say washing dishes, I will come up behind her and put my arms around her and kiss her on the cheek. She will either get annoyed or tell me she is busy not right now... So I explained to her, when she does that I feel neglected,
Hopefully, it's clear now why an act that seems loving on the surface is not. It's similar to the way people say "I love you"--to get "I love you" back. Nice guy syndrome. Pick gifts of love that you can offer with no expectations. Pick gifts of love that speak her love language. Some suggestions have been finding a sitter so you can go on regular date nights, expressing heartfelt gratitude for all she does to help your home and budget, asking what one thing she least wanted to do that day and taking it up, and taking over the dishes or cooking so she can relax. Fill her love bank. (:
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/22/22 02:54 PM
Thank you all for your help. I am taking a lot of what everyone said into consideration.
First, The Love Language. A long time ago we took a Love Language questionaire, I went back to it. We did it about a year and a half ago. Not surprisingly, touch was last on her list. Acts of service was 1 and quality time was 2. With that in mind, I have been really trying to help her around the house and clean and take care of the baby without her asking. She has said I am a big help. I just want to say to all of you its really hard. I want physical touch so much, that is my love language. I understand I do these acts of service not because I am looking for something in return but to fill her love tank. At the same time I feel like my love tank is depleting.

I have also decided not to really speak about how I feel to her. I will tell you why. It seems like when I do it usually starts an argument. I just put a smile on and go on. You might be thinking I need to express myself to her, or I am going to "explode". The thing is, I have tried to explain to her from a place of love how I feel, she just gets defensive and makes excuses why she isnt doing certain things. We get nowhere. In the last few weeks things have been mostly peaceful but my resentment is starting to grow. There is literally no physical touch anymore, none. I can't remember the last time she came over to me and gave me a kiss, or even just hugged me. I know I am supposed to fill her love tank with no expectations, but what do I do? I tried speaking to her numerous times and got nowhere? I give up on that.

According to Michele:
Furthermore, there is an unspoken and often unconscious expectation that the higher desire spouse must accept the no-sex verdict, not complain about it and remain monogamous. After decades of working with couples, I can attest that this is an unfair and unworkable arrangement.

AS I was typing this, I realized we just started therapy together. I will bring it up at therapy. Not right away but when the time is right. The first session went well, I feel like she will be able to help us. We established we need to work on our communication and gave us some strategies how to handle our conversations. Hopefully she will also help us with the $ex part. Because I am "starving".
Posted By: Mach1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/22/22 03:13 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Thank you all for your help. I am taking a lot of what everyone said into consideration.
First, The Love Language. A long time ago we took a Love Language questionaire, I went back to it. We did it about a year and a half ago. Not surprisingly, touch was last on her list. Acts of service was 1 and quality time was 2. With that in mind, I have been really trying to help her around the house and clean and take care of the baby without her asking. She has said I am a big help. I just want to say to all of you its really hard. I want physical touch so much, that is my love language. I understand I do these acts of service not because I am looking for something in return but to fill her love tank. At the same time I feel like my love tank is depleting.


The thing is about the 5LL....

There are two sides to it.

I always recommend reading it twice to anyone that hasn't before, and to new posters.

We tend to read it to understand what WE need as our language. And the first read after the bomb is usually interpreted as a "how I F'ed this up manual"...

The second read of it, I always want the poster to really look at the way that we show love to our partners....

You may feel love by physical touch, yet may show love by acts of service....

Read it again Wolf....

See how you show it....

She may very well show you love by WOA, so discounting the way that she shows love, is essentially you rejecting her love....

Make sense ?
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/22/22 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by Mach1
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Thank you all for your help. I am taking a lot of what everyone said into consideration.
First, The Love Language. A long time ago we took a Love Language questionaire, I went back to it. We did it about a year and a half ago. Not surprisingly, touch was last on her list. Acts of service was 1 and quality time was 2. With that in mind, I have been really trying to help her around the house and clean and take care of the baby without her asking. She has said I am a big help. I just want to say to all of you its really hard. I want physical touch so much, that is my love language. I understand I do these acts of service not because I am looking for something in return but to fill her love tank. At the same time I feel like my love tank is depleting.


The thing is about the 5LL....

There are two sides to it.

I always recommend reading it twice to anyone that hasn't before, and to new posters.

We tend to read it to understand what WE need as our language. And the first read after the bomb is usually interpreted as a "how I F'ed this up manual"...

The second read of it, I always want the poster to really look at the way that we show love to our partners....

You may feel love by physical touch, yet may show love by acts of service....

Read it again Wolf....

See how you show it....

She may very well show you love by WOA, so discounting the way that she shows love, is essentially you rejecting her love....

Make sense ?

It does make sense. The only part and don't laugh, what does "WOA" stand for? I'm hoping with this change in what I am doing for her and therapy together will help a lot. Still a long road ahead.

The other thing I really believe she has post partum depression. We were in the mall yesterday and she just started crying. Saying how she feels so anxious and so depressed. I even said to her, I know there has been a lot that has gone on, I know that things have been tough. I told her I was there for her and help her anyway possible. That she is strong and we will get through this together. I also mentioned that she might have post partum and we should get her checked out. She was on board. Anyone ever deal with post partum, either for themselves or a family member?
Posted By: BL42 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/22/22 05:22 PM
Wolfman,

Keep taking care of your side of the fence and be the best man you can be, and hopefully the rest will work itself out.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
The only part and don't laugh, what does "WOA" stand for?
The 5 Love Languages: quality time, words of affirmation, gifts, acts of service, or physical touch.

WOA = words of affirmation

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Anyone ever deal with post partum, either for themselves or a family member?
I've wondered if a combination of now-ExW's postpartum depression (with a 1yo at the time) and stopping longtime anti-depressant / anti-anxiety medication factored into BD & D, but will never know for sure.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/27/22 01:44 AM
BL sorry to hear all of that.

I am really frustrated today. I am trying to make things better for us. Her LL is acts of service. She asked me to return a jacket for her to a store that is 30 minutes away. She had work today and I was off. I returned the jacket for her then I surprised her at her job. She was so happy and excited. After she got off from work I took her to dinner. When we got home I helped her clean up. Then at one point I put my arms out for a hug. She came over to me and gave me a 1 second hug, then said she doesn’t have time and went back to cleaning. The hug felt like a friend hug. I am getting tired of this. I made all this time for her today, did a bunch of things for her and I am not worth a hug??? Little by little I am losing interest in this relationship. I am really trying to fill her love language and she doesn’t care about mine. How much more? I feel like I am just a wallet to her at this point. It’s starting to feel more like a friendship. Therapy we are doing is only going to delay this. Unless she has an epiphany I don’t see this getting better.
Posted By: Kind18 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/27/22 08:49 AM
The problem is you see love as transactional.

You think it’s like making a deposit at the bank, then a few hours later you suddenly want to go and make a withdrawal.

Your real motivation for engaging with her love language appears to get her to reciprocate and give you what you want.

Love isn’t a series a transactions.

You should want to engage her love language for no reason other than knowing it makes her happy, without an expectation hiding in the shadows.

If you’re not happy in the relationship - then tell her and persist with therapy, or if you’ve lost interest, then leave.

Quote
Unless she has an epiphany I don’t see this getting better.

Sounds like more than one person needs to have an epiphany.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/27/22 03:21 PM
Kind. You are right to a degree. We talk about LL and I have been trying to fill her love with those things. I know I made the post as if it was one day, that is my fault. I am trying to do the things she love more. I would like her to reciprocate. Why is that bad? I want my LL to be filled. I have told her I have told her the things I would like too, but it doesn’t seem to matter what I want. This is the same thing that happened in my marriage. I try to do the things that they want, when they don’t reciprocate, I start to get frustrated and feel unwanted and unloved. I start to get resentful and start to shut down.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/27/22 03:30 PM
No one is saying that your wanting things is bad or that asking for what you want is bad. I think where the breakdown might be is in how you deliver the message. I have said this to you before and it bears repeating: stop keeping score and stop fighting to be right all the time. You say you have done these things that speak to her LL and she seems pleased but then when you want something she shuts you down. Timing and delivery, my man. You can’t keep a tally of what things you are doing for her, expecting her to reciprocate immediately. Keep doing things for her without expectation of anything in return. I get you want her to fill your love tank in a way that speaks your LL but she may be so far down at the moment that she just can’t get there. Just stop keeping score like I did a,b,c so I should get 1,2,3 because even if you don’t intend for that to come across that way to her, that is exactly how she is perceiving it.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/27/22 06:50 PM
Wolf, although I've left this forum, I wanted to offer you some parting thoughts--

Originally Posted by Wolf
I surprised her at her job. She was so happy and excited. After she got off from work I took her to dinner.
This relationship is more salvageable than the vast majority of DB stories here. She's not seeing other men, starting fights, or declining your dates. She's enthusiastic.

Originally Posted by Wolf
We were in the mall yesterday and she just started crying. Saying how she feels so anxious and so depressed.
Like you, she has issues. Saving this is not 100% on you.

Originally Posted by Wolf
I made all this time for her today, did a bunch of things for her and I am not worth a hug???
This is where you toss your hard work away. "I did X, so she should give me Y!" Wolf, balances of labor in the household ("she cooks, I clean") are transactional, like roommates. Ensure there is balance so you're each doing your share and also respecting one another.

Love is not transactional. Whether your love is a feeling or a choice, express it through genuinely kind acts for your partner, the mother of your child at least weekly with no thought of reciprocation. In 6-9 months you've already had 20-40 opportunities for dinner dates, flowers, or taking up one of her chores once. Her love tank from all indications is low. It will take time to refill.

Was there anything to be grateful for or appreciate about brightening her day? Look for those things daily. A happy companion, yummy food, and a fun venue would all do it for me. Is I GOT HUGGED or I DIDN'T GET HUGGED--is that all you can see in that? Monthly rants aren't solving this. Prioritize your relationship like gym visits and expect results on that timeline.

If you're desperate for physical touch now SOLVE THAT directly. I remember at one phase of my life--a stage of pregnancy where my XW felt gross--I visited masseuses because $45 was worth it for an hour of physical touch and talk about our challenges. Also, your son loves you, so you have at least one person in your life who loves you and isn't going anywhere.

Wolf, I hope you and your GF find your happy place!
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/27/22 07:55 PM
I’ll never forget sometimes after a long shift as an ICU nurse, I would just want a shoulder rub. My ex didn’t want to unless sex was in the mix. And if I just let him rub my shoulders and not do something for him in return he would get all pissy.

As everyone says. Love is not transactional. You figured out for a week that you need to speak to her in her love language and you finally do and you expect an immediate response to get what you want from it.

Give it a nice long period of time where you speak to her in her love language without expectation of her giving to you in your love language. See what happens. Let her come to you. Soon she won’t even want to receive from you if that expectation that she needs to return all the time is there.

And I have to ask. You mention she is not from this country. Is her family here? Does she have anyone here? Aside from you, is she alone in this country with this baby?
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/28/22 12:55 PM
I need help with a convo ASAP. With the therapist yesterday my gf brought up a situation from April she was upset about. Try to make it short and to the point. Back in April I had a week off and I got my son for the whole week. So, about a week before I got him I said I wanted to take my son to Great Adventure of of those 7 days I had him. I told her I was thinking Monday. She out right told me NO.( 2 reasons I was taking him, 1. It was her idea if he got a certain number of 100’s on tests I should take him. 2. That week I had him I knew the park was not going to be so crowded.)
I said I can’t take him one day? She said no she had school work to do. I said I understand, that she has work to do, it was just going to be one day and the rest of the week I would help her by babysitting the baby. Which I didn’t think was fair for me and my son, that I was going to babysit and barely spend time with him. Make a long story short, I still took him on Monday. She was very mad that I took him after she told me no. Oh and as far as her school work, she finished it 2 days later and the assignment wasn’t due for another week anyway.
So she brought that up how she felt like I didn’t care about her school work and the things she needs to do. That I should have not gone, that I could have taken him in the summer. She was upset about that. The therapist asked me about my side of the story and how I felt. I explained what I said above and said I don’t think it would have been fair for my son to just sit in my house everyday while I babysat the baby. And basically only spend time with him after the baby goes to bed at 7 pm. How is that going to make him feel. And I had told him a couple of weeks before that I was going to take him during that break. When I said all of this, she got even more upset because when this all happened she kept at with me how I was wrong, I shouldn’t have done that. So back at the time I tried to validate and say, I understand why you would be upset, I am sorry you felt like I let you down. So she told the therapist I went back on my apology now. Feels like my apology was not real. Honestly I tried to validate her feelings back then and I did t want to continue to argue, considering she finished the project 2 days later, one week ahead of schedule.
She just text me she is still upset about our conversation from yesterday. This is what she just text me,
I am still upset about our conversation yesterday. You basically told me that my things aren’t as important as yours. Please help. How do I validate this? I don’t want to argue.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/28/22 01:37 PM
First, it’s never babysitting your child. It’s called parenting. I hope to God you do not use the word “babysit” in reference to parenting your baby.

What do you think Yoi could have done better in that situation? Do you think you could have compromised on a different day that week and said “ I am taking my son to great adventure, which day would work best for you ? Did you try that ?
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/28/22 01:58 PM
Originally Posted by Ginger1
First, it’s never babysitting your child. It’s called parenting. I hope to God you do not use the word “babysit” in reference to parenting your baby.

What do you think Yoi could have done better in that situation? Do you think you could have compromised on a different day that week and said “ I am taking my son to great adventure, which day would work best for you ? Did you try that ?

Lol I don’t use that term babysit. I said it on here. I love watching and being with my son. I asked her what day would be best for her? She outright said no this week. Wait till the summer. I don’t think that is fair to my son. I had him a whole week and only be able to spend time with him after 7. Let me clarify something too about that situation. I ask my son to play with the baby and we do things together. Just not what he wants to do. Go for a bike ride, go to the park and play basketball, play video games. Things like that, we can’t do because of the baby.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/28/22 02:12 PM
Something is not right here you guys are acting like an old married couple after two years of dating. This is why you take your time to get to know someone before cohabitating and knocking them up. This sounds awful. Feel really bad for your children.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/28/22 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by Wolfman
. How do I validate this? I don’t want to argue.

I don't think that you do validate it....

I think you have to understand it, and find a way forward from it...

Question....

Do you try to validate ONLY to achieve a certain response ??

Or do you seriously try to understand ???

I agree with LH....something is off....

Validation is more than a tool to get your way and desired outcome...
Posted By: Mach1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/28/22 02:29 PM
And....

Start a new thread before we have to do CPR on Cadet

: )
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/28/22 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
Something is not right here you guys are acting like an old married couple after two years of dating. This is why you take your time to get to know someone before cohabitating and knocking them up. This sounds awful. Feel really bad for your children.

How does this help me? We have been together 3.5 years. I can’t worry about the past I can only move forward.
What is off???
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/28/22 02:35 PM
Start a new thread and i will give you my thoughts.
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/28/22 02:46 PM
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2937935&#Post2937935

New thread above
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/28/22 03:08 PM
So you were dating before your W even moved out. I guess this makes more sense now.

So in the early stages of a relationship and especially after having a child a woman will typically bends over backwards to make her husband/BF happy so he stays in the relationship. This is all part of the Evolutionary Psychology thing I like to talk about on this board. She wants a man around to help with, protect and provide for her and the baby. After years and years of this and the man doesn't reciprocate the resentment starts to build and you get the bomb drop after many years of her needs not being met. The fact that this has happened so quickly leads me to believe either A. you are not being honest with us or B. your girlfriend is not relationship/marriage material or something is not right with her like for an example she is not attracted to you.

So anyhoo what I would do if you want this relationship work is to focus on her needs for at minimum 6 months. If you do this and she is a rational human being she will slowly start to meet your needs too. After 6 months of your efforts she still is not reciprocating you should have a discussion and try to at minimum negotiate a middle ground. If the negotiation is not acceptable to you than you need to live with it or start to plan your exit strategy.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/28/22 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
Start a new thread and i will give you my thoughts.

That worked well...

: )
Posted By: LH19 Re: Wolfman moving forward 3 - 09/28/22 03:16 PM
LOL!
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