Previous Threads:WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Don't Want Divorce (1)WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Don't Want Divorce (2)WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Don't Want Divorce (3)WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Divorced Anyway (4)WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Divorced Anyway (5)Summary:ExW & I (late 30s) were together 9 years, married 7, with two young children (then S4/D1, now S6/D3). Less than 2 years ago we were vacationing as a family in Disney; two weeks later BD & discover her affair w/married co-worker. For months I pursued, chased, begged, snooped...etc. I was home putting the kids to bed and getting them ready in the morning while she's out running around on me. Affair w/OM1 blows up when work & OM1's wife find out, but instead of working on the marriage she starts up w/OM2, moves out, files for divorce, moves OM2 right in (including with my kids). We separated 17 months ago and the divorce legally finalized 7 months ago. She's been living with OM2 for over a year now, and bought a new house across the street from his sister.
I'm doing much better than a year ago. I have a fantastic family support system and good friends. I was always a great dad but have dedicated myself to being their rock, again excelling at work, coaching S6's sports teams, playing sports myself and lifting at the gym with a friend, started a grad degree and aced my first semester, projects around the house...etc. Made it a point not to date until after D was official - moral thing for me and my kids - but really haven't done much there since the D either. Still have points of anger I'm dealing with in terms of ExW and OM2 living with my kids.
Getting advice here in "Surviving the Big D" on name changes, child support, and various relating divorce topics...
Merry Christmas BL
May the season be bright. Wishing you and your’s a wonderful new year.
D
Thanks DnJ! Merry Christmas to you and your kids as well!
It was a hectic week with unanticipated craziness and priorities at work, S6 stomach bug, and prepping for the Holidays. I was super stressed about making it special/perfect for the S6 and D3, having them for Christmas Eve Day but not Christmas Day this year.
I'm happy to report everything went wonderfully and couldn't have asked for anything better (in light of the D situation). We went to a drive-through lights show earlier in the week with a Santa workshop where the kids got a letter from Santa saying he choose our house to be visited on Christmas Eve Day and S6 was beside himself (still doesn't suspect anything so I see and hear the wonderment in his eyes and voice). So, albeit a day earlier than most...we still put out cookies for Santa and carrots for the reindeer, read 'Twas the Night Before Christmas, and went to bed will full anticipation of Santa visiting in the morning. The kids fell asleep in a snap which gave me time to play Santa without a midnight or 2am bedtime, and of course they woke up super early in the morning. The kids tore through their presents and were overjoyed with everything. My parents came over to make the traditional "Grandma's Christmas Tree Pancakes" and we actually got a bit of snow so went to a local hill and used the brand new sleds Santa had delivered and had a blast. S6 loves it as always and D3 is such a daredevil it's ridiculous, jumping up and throwing her body on the sled to speed down the hill LOL. We spent the rest of the day playing with various presents, then got dressed up and went to Christmas Eve Mass together with D3 singing and dancing in the pew LOL. We drove by a neighborhood known for their lights display on the way back and both kids were exhausted.
After church I had to take them to ExW and won't be able to be with them tomorrow on Christmas Day, which put a damper on it, but really believe I made the best of that situation and made memories with them.
Anyway...tomorrow is my first Christmas Day without seeing the kids so I plan to go on a hike or work out when I wake up, am volunteering at a free Christmas dinner / soup kitchen for a few hours in the afternoon, and finally probably having dinner with my parents. Not the Christmas Day I would've hoped and planned for 2 years ago, but am trying to have a positive mindset and making the best of the situation.
Hope everyone here who celebrates it has wonderful Christmas! Thanks for the support.
Sounds like you made a wonderful Christmas tradition for the kids. Seriously, my kid is over the moon she gets to do Christmas twice. She has been bragging for years about that.
I know it’s never what you envision when you marry and have children, but you made the best of it. It’s still great, just different
Oh yeah, you live in my lovely home state! We got that snow on Christmas Eve . Little over an inch, it looked nice. I got hiking poles for Christmas and will be going any chance I get.
A Christmas hike sounds like fun. If you ever need a hiking buddy, HMU, lol.
BL42, thank you again for replying to my initial posting. I read up on your tread, and it sounds like you have been put through the wringer but have taken advantage of this 'gift' and are coming out on top. You still have littles (mine is a tween), so fun! What an excellent decision to dedicate yourself to raising your kids. It's a gift to them, but also for you as they do grow up so fast and, time with them, you can never get back. While thinking about how fast my son has grown up, I have a difficult time understanding why anyone would break up a family and, as a consequence, choose less time with their kid(s). But, we are human, we are flawed and make mistakes. Inspired by you, I am going to focus on my son and myself for the time being, I too want to be less distracted by R an M stuff. All the best!
I'm off work this week for the Holidays, so despite it being "ExW's week" I spent the bulk of Mon/Tues/Wed with S6 and D3 because she had to work. Did fun activities with them like bowling and the trampoline park and of course tons of playing with toys and games from Santa. So fortunate to have the extra time with them. One of my biggest fears in the D was the loss of half my children's lives, but so far I've been engaged a majority of the time, so that's good.
For some reason I've had trouble sleeping this week. You'd think without the young kids overnight I'd actually sleep better, but in reality I find it's often the opposite. This week I've been waking up at 3-4am and not being able to get back to sleep for hours and then when I finally do sleeping in much later than I should to compensate. So between the time with the kids and the sleep patterns I haven't gotten to the gym as planned. I need to refocus there.
In terms of GAL I went out to ice skate by myself yesterday, then met up with two buddies for dinner and drinks. I'm really looking forward to a friend's NYE Party tonight at his newly remodeled business offices w/a dozen couples who are good friends...I have a very good group and it's always good to get some adult/friend time.
I'm honestly not seeking this out, but was told by a reliable source through a family member that work is not going well for ExW at her current employer. If you remember the beginning of my sitch for months she was having a PA with a married coworker in the office during work hours. Apparently the rumor mill has been churning there and her unit actually took a vote to not allow her to return there. Supposedly folks weren't too happy she was running the hospital "having fun" with an ICU nurse manager during the outbreak of COVID. So she's been moved to an unfavorable unit as a sort of punishment. I guess it's not a unit people usually want to work for unless they're really interested/enjoy the area. It's somewhere ExW's worked in the past and previously told me she hated and needed to leave for her mental state, but now she's back. At one point pre-BD she was given awards and viewed by administration as an up and comer for potential management/director roles and now apparently, while not actually fired, has been put into limbo/purgatory on with her current employer.
Anyway, lining up with that info I also found out she had a phone screen and will be interviewing next week with the other main employer in the field locally. The hurt/angry part of me wants to reach out anonymously to the new employer and let them know why she's leaving the current place - part of this doesn't seem fair she can just escape everything into another situation and there should be repercussions - but admittedly that would not be loving detachment, and I should mind my own business. My guess is she may be she's trying to run away from the rumors and burnt bridges. If that happens it'll be a divorce, new house, new man/family, and new employer in the span of a year/year and a half.
I am interested in how a potential new job may potentially impact child support, which can be revisited every 3 years or after 15% change in income. It may not matter at all, but the role at the new place with be a supervisor role and with recruiting/rates in hospitals as they are right now it might be a bump up. Probably won't change my bottom line in the end, but may run the info by my L if things play out.
Also, in researching the employment situation I got curious and came across a Pinterest profile ExW had created online. I previously blocked her on the main social media sites, but couldn't help but a bit snoop at this finding late last night. Apparently back in April, a month before our D finalized, she made a board with dozens of motivational quotes about: leaving past behind, overcoming being broken, becoming the strong person you used to be, learning to be happy by yourself and then finding the right person at an unexpected time (odd, because she went right from OM1 to OM2 while married to me), remembering the person you were before marriage, you never know a man until you divorce him, it wont always hurt and you and the kids with get through this, being a mother and trying to heal yourself mentally and emotionally is the hardest thing you'll ever have to do, people are going to talk about you for what you're during (i.e., divorce) so just seek happiness...etc, etc.
I felt a weird mix of emotions reading through those quotes. For one thing it demonstrates how the WAS/WS can go through a lot of turmoil mentally even if it doesn't show through to the LBS. We LBSs don't always have insight into that. But it also got me worked up it seems like a theme is how I broke her and she needs to heal herself from me and become strong and happy again. I don't know. I vacillate on this. I certainly wasn't perfect and couldn't been better, but overall am a fantastic father and was a pretty decent to above average husband (imo). There were times I could've done better planning date nights and being romantic, but things were pretty hectic with work and young kids. We definitely should have made more time for each other to focus on our relationship. Although I honestly do believe deep down it's her hurts and issues and ADs and counseling related to her upbringing from years before we met, findings like this (and this whole situation, including what she said to me at BD and in IHS) sew some doubt and make me second guess the man I am. I don't know.
Anyway, I shouldn't have dug into all that. I know...focus on me and the kids, not her.
I am very much looking forward to a New Years Eve party with friends tonight. Not only will it be great to hang out with my crew, it signals a fresh 2022 with great possibilities in light of my situation over the past two years...though it would be nice to ring in 2023 with a passionate kiss instead of looking awkwardly at all the couples around me when the ball drops! LOL
i think we're still ringing in 2022 this time, so maybe by 2023 it will be a passionate kiss for you with a wonderful woman !
I wanted to point something out: you don't have to do or say anything. Why? Because she's bringing herself to any new situation. The world is an incredibly small place. You know this. People in specific fields now each other. If there are only two main employers in her field in your area, there is definitely a very high probability that someone will clue in the new co-workers or management of her past experiences and questionable on-site decisions.
Just keep doing you. You're doing great!
now = Know.
i swear i'm not illiterate. just sleep-deprived!
bttrfly,
i think we're still ringing in 2022 this time, so maybe by 2023 it will be a passionate kiss for you with a wonderful woman !
Yeah...I was already writing off tonight in that regard. With just 10 hours to go, ringing in 2023 right seems like the more reasonable target LOL
I wanted to point something out: you don't have to do or say anything. Why? Because she's bringing herself to any new situation. The world is an incredibly small place. You know this. People in specific fields now each other. If there are only two main employers in her field in your area, there is definitely a very high probability that someone will clue in the new co-workers or management of her past experiences and questionable on-site decisions.
Probably true, and really if I'm practicing loving detachment then I shouldn't be wishing for let alone contributing to a negative outcome for her, but if I'm being honest with myself there's still part of me that's angry and hurt and would relish in some karma/revenge. Still have some work to do in that area.
Just keep doing you. You're doing great!
Thanks! :-)
BL,
What does loving detachment mean to you?
LH,
I've made a lot of progress over the last almost two years. Going from severely depressed and begging/clinging during BD/Affair/IHS desperate to keep my family together, to handling the eventual physical separation and divorce somewhat gracefully with ExW, to pivoting my focus on improving myself and striving as a single father.
I'm at a point now where I don't long for (or even wish) ExW to come back. In fact, I can't even imagine taking her back at this point (granted I can't see her wanting to either) because it would be a nearly impossible pill to swallow.
However, there is still part of me that is hurt and angry and would like to see her get some karma and comeuppance for the way she's treating me, our children, our family.
The truth is I do get some solace and satisfaction in hearing her standing with current employer is derailed, and there is a part of me that would like to notify her potential new employer of her actions and cause her more angst on the career front. The truth is I would love to hear hear things didn't work out with OM2, and part of me would even like to play a hand in that, say by sending him and his family my evidence of ExW's affair with OM1.
To me, loving detachment is getting to the point where I'm no longer reveling in her setbacks or imaging some revenge in my mind, but rather be un-invested in ExW's successes or failures and unemotionally responding to them. It's not giving any mind space or time of day to her outcomes, not getting worked up about certain triggers, and having more grace in treating ExW with greater compassion (in the limited interactions we have).
I do think I've made a lot of progress overall, but if I'm being honest with myself (and all of you) there's still some work to be done in this area.
Just remember, it’s best for your kids and for your financial bottom line if she succeeds. Karma will take care of her without you having to do a thing, anyway.
B,
So this summer I had my 35th high school reunion WTF lol. My ex girlfriend from HS sister in law was there. We got to talking and she said my ex girlfriend is in a terrible marriage. She said she wished she would have ended up with me. She was the first to break my heart 34 years ago and hearing her say that gave me a little bit of satisfaction. Terrible right? It’s just human nature. Even the best of the best at forgiveness and detachment on here are lying if they tell you otherwise. You are doing fine and don’t need any contribution to screwing up her life. It will almost certainly happened on it’s own eventually.
Chin up tits out!
BL, what you said about loving detachment is also what forgiveness looks like. People often ask what forgiveness looks like . That’s it. That’s a really emotional
Mature response to loving detachment and for what you hope to achieve.
Happy new year!!
She was the first to break my heart 34 years ago and hearing her say that gave me a little bit of satisfaction. Terrible right? It’s just human nature. Even the best of the best at forgiveness and detachment on here are lying if they tell you otherwise.
LH19, that's your truth, but the rest of us can have different truths without being liars. I am happy my first girlfriend got married and is well. IMHO, more forgiveness is healthy for someone you see and interact with, less for someone you do not. For a XGF you no longer interact with, I don't think your level of forgiveness is wrong, any more than my level of forgiveness is wrong for an XGF I do continue to interact with (but have lost touch with on and off over the years).
I do think BL42 is doing exceptionally well on the path of forgiveness. I was not as far along as he two years in. He's also noting where hurt feelings cause him to want to do things which wouldn't benefit him or his family, and acknowledging that.
Oddly enough, I do not satisfaction of others failings. Even those who have hurt me. No satisfaction it at all.
However, I do get a little envious of their successes . Weird, right ?
Oddly enough, I do not satisfaction of others failings. Even those who have hurt me. No satisfaction it at all.
However, I do get a little envious of their successes . Weird, right ?
So if your exh or his W cheated on the other you would get zero satisfaction? Not a snicker, a chuckle or a haha.
Nope, not anymore. It would be more devastating for my daughter, so no. I really don’t know how I would feel if my child wasn’t involved.
Would I get satisfaction finding out my high school boyfriend was in a terrible marriage? God no. 34 years later and you have satisfaction that she is in a terrible marriage? Talk about not letting things go
First of all the majority of long term marriages are terrible. Second of all I may have exaggerated a little. I really didn’t feel anything. Third of all I’m a Scorpio lol.
My dad is a Scorpio . I understand
Your dad is bad a$$. Never cross a Scorpio.
My point in the beginning to BL was reporting her to the employer is crossing the line. Getting satisfaction from her mishaps is completely normal.
One of the biggest proponents of detachment and forgiveness on this board clearly shows in their posts they are enjoying watching their ex struggle.
Just to be clear...I wasn't actually planning to take action to contact the potential new employer. It was more of a devilish thought my brain cooked up. A fun thought for someone betrayed perhaps, but admittedly probably not a good idea in real life.
Off to my NYE Party. Definitely looking forward to spending time closing out 2021 and starting 2022 with my best friends...
Happy New Year, all!
Hey, have fun! The party is going strong here with my EX MIL!
Your dad is bad a$$. Never cross a Scorpio.
My point in the beginning to BL was reporting her to the employer is crossing the line. Getting satisfaction from her mishaps is completely normal.
One of the biggest proponents of detachment and forgiveness on this board clearly shows in their posts they are enjoying watching their ex struggle.
he's also a scorpio. fwiw
and not to hijack, but is he enjoying it or is he more in a state of stunned disbelief?
Not judging BF just my opinion. Full detachment and forgiveness is hard. I don’t push it on myself. If it comes it comes if it doesn’t that’s ok too. The most precious thing for my kids and I is time spent together. This was taken from us with zero say in the matter. It’s something we can never get back. Was part of it my fault? Absolutely. But I was willing to do anything to fix it. For me it’s hard to forgive but I imagine I’ll get there some day. I just won’t force it.
Not judging BF just my opinion. Full detachment and forgiveness is hard. I don’t push it on myself. If it comes it comes if it doesn’t that’s ok too. The most precious thing for my kids and I is time spent together. This was taken from us with zero say in the matter. It’s something we can never get back. Was part of it my fault? Absolutely. But I was willing to do anything to fix it. For me it’s hard to forgive but I imagine I’ll get there some day. I just won’t force it.
i responded over on my thread LH
LH19/Ginger1/bttrfly/CWarrior,
So this summer I had my 35th high school reunion WTF lol. My ex girlfriend from HS sister in law was there. We got to talking and she said my ex girlfriend is in a terrible marriage. She said she wished she would have ended up with me. She was the first to break my heart 34 years ago and hearing her say that gave me a little bit of satisfaction.
Would I get satisfaction finding out my high school boyfriend was in a terrible marriage? God no. 34 years later and you have satisfaction that she is in a terrible marriage? Talk about not letting things go
So the high school reunion discussion got me thinking...
Not sure I've shared this here on the board yet but besides my ExW/marriage, though I've dated many others for shorter periods in-between, I've only had one other what I'd consider major/significant romantic relationship in my life. My high school sweet heart. She was my first girlfriend and first love. We went off to college together and dated for years afterwards. Actually the length of that relationship was similar and perhaps even slightly longer than w/ExW (both 8-9 years, approaching a decade), but this one was more on and off with breaks and never any engagement, marriage, or kids (though it certainly easily could've gone that way). In retrospect there was a bit of Pursuer-Distancer Dynamic at play - she tended to be more of the heartbreaker and I the left behind, though it went both ways at times - but our lives were fairly entwined (same classes in high school, many in college, families shared holidays dinners and vacations together...etc.).
What finally ended things was I was getting frustrated the last Summer and a cute little hottie started pursuing me and I finally gave in to someone else. That didn't last long, and my hs/college sweetheart pursued me again in the Fall and we spent both Halloween and Thanksgiving together, but unbeknownst to me she met someone from another country on a vacation she went on with a girlfriend (probably hurt about my Summer fling, though she had more of her own in the past) while I was abroad for a business trip in between those two holidays, and ended up staying in touch and basically ran off across the country with him at New Years. I wasn't without blame in the relationship, but being the left behind was hurt and betrayed and felt at the time that it was all her fault. Me and my family were upset with her, her family was actually upset with her, and I admittedly didn't deal with it gracefully (contacting her friends and family), and for a good while was depressed and wishing their relationship would fail.
Two times with HS/College sweetheart relevant to DB'ing come to mind:
1) In college during a HS/College sweetheart-initiated "break" in which she may have been seeing someone, my apartment mates and I hosted a party at which I made out with a good looking girl. Apparently word must've gotten around because the very next day I got a call from her enquiring all about it. Of course I didn't DB well and told her it didn't mean anything and really all I wanted was her back and then she of course was turned off. But it reminds me so much of a real-world example of the theories on here or Swingers how you have to move on before they reach out again. Literally the day after! LOL
2) Years after final breakup with HS/College sweetheart I described above, I was dating and maybe engaged to now ExW and she was engaged or maybe married to the man she ran off with, but she reached out. It was a shock - out of no where - and I responded with only a text "I'm not sure what to say at this point" and never followed up more, despite receiving repeated calls, texts, social media...etc for a week or more. Her parents had sold their house in our hometown and she was going through a decade of our memories in boxes and was reminded of our significant history. Don't know whether it was just a closure/"sorry for how things ended", a tempt check, or if she maybe was having second thoughts...but interesting. Totally out of the blue and never expected to hear from her again. Part of me, now having gone through the D and recognizing how I could've handled things differently with her as well, has thought about reaching out to apology myself now years later, but it's probably best to not stir things up and just let them be.
The point I'm only now getting back to from the HS reunion discussion is now, over a decade later, I feel completely at peace and let go of the resentment many years ago and hold absolutely no ill will towards her. I don't believe I would take any pleasure in hearing they didn't work out or weren't happy. I know they married and had two kids. I don't know if they're still together or happy, but have no reason to believe they're not. Who knows maybe HS/College sweetheart made the right call and is better off than she would've been with me. Or, maybe her and I would've been much happier and even blissful and she/we're missing out. There's no way to know. You can't play out all the scenarios and then choose. Life doesn't work that way. Even afterwards with the benefit of hindsight you can never be sure if it was the right call.
Now, ExW and the divorce feels much much different than HS Sweetheart because there was a ring and marriage vows and young children. Hers was a betrayal which is also impacting our children. But on the other hand maybe part of the difference is the stage I am in the process and perhaps I'll feel similarly about this sitch in a decade as I do now with HS/College sweetheart.
So if your exh or his W cheated on the other you would get zero satisfaction? Not a snicker, a chuckle or a haha.
Nope, not anymore. It would be more devastating for my daughter, so no. I really don’t know how I would feel if my child wasn’t involved.
I'd totally get satisfaction if that happened with Ex2/OM2 at this point! But like I said above with HS Sweetheart, and like Ginger1, maybe I'll get there. Probably best for me and the kids if I do. Though LH I suspect there might always be a small smile in this sitch.
BL, what you said about loving detachment is also what forgiveness looks like. People often ask what forgiveness looks like . That’s it. That’s a really emotional
Mature response to loving detachment and for what you hope to achieve.
Happy new year!!
I do think BL42 is doing exceptionally well on the path of forgiveness. I was not as far along as he two years in. He's also noting where hurt feelings cause him to want to do things which wouldn't benefit him or his family, and acknowledging that.
Ginger1/Warrior - Thanks for the kind words. Hope you're right :-)
Good Morning BL
Well done with the Christmas Eve/Day and week. It sounds like S6 and D3 had a wonderful time. And so did Dad! Love hearing how D3 is such a daredevil.
You’ve got a wonderful family my friend. The work for you is letting go your old definition of family and embracing (and believing) the new definition.
So fortunate to have the extra time with them. One of my biggest fears in the D was the loss of half my children's lives, but so far I've been engaged a majority of the time, so that's good.
Yes, a very common fear. Let it go. That fear will not serve you, and keeps your focus more on what you feel you lost than what you actually gained.
As special as the time is spending it with your kids, it is just a special for them spending time with you. Oddly, and albeit unwished for, this situation can/will (depends upon you) make you and your kids relationship even better.
I previously blocked her on the main social media sites, but couldn't help but a bit snoop at this finding late last night.
BL, you could. It’s ok, you chose to snoop. We’ve all been there. Realizing, and owning, this choice allows you to choose differently in the future, if you want to. “Couldn’t help it”, will ensure you remain powerless. Be the captain of your ship and destiny.
And “but” is justifying your actions as well.
I previously blocked her on the main social media sites
, but couldn't help but a bit and snoop at this finding late last night.
Apparently back in April, a month before our D finalized, she made a board with dozens of motivational quotes about: leaving past behind, overcoming being broken, becoming the strong person you used to be, learning to be happy by yourself and then finding the right person at an unexpected time (odd, because she went right from OM1 to OM2 while married to me), remembering the person you were before marriage, you never know a man until you divorce him, it wont always hurt and you and the kids with get through this, being a mother and trying to heal yourself mentally and emotionally is the hardest thing you'll ever have to do, people are going to talk about you for what you're during (i.e., divorce) so just seek happiness...etc, etc.
I felt a weird mix of emotions reading through those quotes. For one thing it demonstrates how the WAS/WS can go through a lot of turmoil mentally even if it doesn't show through to the LBS. We LBSs don't always have insight into that.
Yes, she is crafting her narrative. Her reality. Almost no one is the villain in their own story. Combining and reconciling her version with real feedback from life leads to confusion. That usually leads to more justifying, denying, projecting, etc. Eventually the WAS/WS starts to own their path and choices and this external display of seeking validation lessens and ceases. Then the inner work really starts.
But it also got me worked up it seems like a theme is how I broke her and she needs to heal herself from me and become strong and happy again. I don't know. I vacillate on this. I certainly wasn't perfect and couldn't been better, but overall am a fantastic father and was a pretty decent to above average husband (imo). There were times I could've done better planning date nights and being romantic, but things were pretty hectic with work and young kids. We definitely should have made more time for each other to focus on our relationship. Although I honestly do believe deep down it's her hurts and issues and ADs and counseling related to her upbringing from years before we met, findings like this (and this whole situation, including what she said to me at BD and in IHS) sew some doubt and make me second guess the man I am. I don't know.
BL, do not get drawn in to her narrative.
Of course you weren’t perfect. None of us are. However, her problems are her’s! You didn’t break her. You cannot fix her.
Having the rug pulled out from under one’s self; being betrayed so suddenly; takes a big hit on one’s confidence. It takes awhile to find one’s center.
The hurt/angry part of me wants to reach out anonymously to the new employer and let them know why she's leaving the current place - part of this doesn't seem fair she can just escape everything into another situation and there should be repercussions - but admittedly that would not be loving detachment, and I should mind my own business. My guess is she may be she's trying to run away from the rumors and burnt bridges. If that happens it'll be a divorce, new house, new man/family, and new employer in the span of a year/year and a half.
You bet - it’s not fair. Who said life was going to be, or suppose to be, fair?
You only control you. Your thoughts, actions, and reactions.
Acting/reacting out of anger will lead certainly to regret. Manipulation never works out well. We cannot see all ends, and you do not want the knowledge nor the responsibility of her life’s outcome upon your head.
Thoughts. You control those as well. Oddly, exploring this wee fantasy can lead to better loving detachment. One needs to understand the dark to understand the light. Just don’t get lost within the dark.
Utilize your imagination. Control your thoughts. Imagine her comeuppance and consequences come to fruition. Do really want a hand in that? Would you, BL, want that responsibility seared into your soul?
Let go. Let God.
Karma will look after things.
Control. Negative begets negative. Positive begets positive.
Life is not fair. You have the better end of the stick. By far! Never doubt that.
A divorce. A new house. A new man/family. A new employer. Within such a short span of time. Look at this. Read it. How is that something great? How is that aspiring? Who would strive for such a life?
Sin is a sin for a reason. Her life ain’t all roses. Give her to God and let go. Loving detachment my friend. And a big old heap of compassion.
Life is about the journey. Your journey. Positive begets positive.
…if I'm practicing loving detachment then I shouldn't be wishing for let alone contributing to a negative outcome for her, but if I'm being honest with myself there's still part of me that's angry and hurt and would relish in some karma/revenge. Still have some work to do in that area.
A few things:
Stop practicing loving detachment and start living it.
Like most things, mindset is everything.
The angry and hurt part of you will heal. It will heal faster if you do not tie it to a karmic revenge.
Being honest is awesome! You need to know accurately where and what you are internally dealing with.
Let go. You definitely do not want to contribute to a negative outcome for her.
However, and quite oddly, wishing for is not the same. Wishes belong to the fantasy realm. An outcome we’d like, and won’t truly put forth any effort into achieving. It’s a wish. In this case, validating what you suspect. Her reasons and bases of her new life choices is a foundation of deceit. And like sand it will crumble under the pressures of life.
The truth is I would love to hear hear things didn't work out with OM2
Good. Honest. Now let it go.
…and part of me would even like to play a hand in that, say by sending him and his family my evidence of ExW's affair with OM1.
I’m thinking this view/desire might be getting altered.
To me, loving detachment is getting to the point where I'm no longer reveling in her setbacks or imaging some revenge in my mind, but rather be un-invested in ExW's successes or failures and unemotionally responding to them. It's not giving any mind space or time of day to her outcomes, not getting worked up about certain triggers, and having more grace in treating ExW with greater compassion (in the limited interactions we have).
Nice. Well envisioned. And imagination is the first, and a critical step in crafting reality.
You control you. What do you need to do to get here?
By the way, compassion has a component of indifference to it. You can live in Grace and hold XW accountable. You need not be friends; friends don’t treat you that way. Be cordial and kind. Compassionate and indifferent.
One of the biggest proponents of detachment and forgiveness on this board clearly shows in their posts they are enjoying watching their ex struggle.
What an interesting observation and inference.
I consider myself a rather enthusiastic proponent of forgiveness. My XW’s struggles have validated my views, and over and over again confirmed her tormented path. I am mostly heartbroken for what was once such a wonderful women to be brought so low. The fragility of the mind is truly staggering.
The freedom of forgiveness is incredible. Do consider the object you are forgiving.
Love the sinner, forgive the sin.
Most people believe you forgive the person. That places you morally above them, which is not a forgiving position. Love the person, for they are a soul. Lost, hurt, and in pain. Forgive their actions. Write upon the invoice of retribution you hold within your heart - paid in full. And let it go.
Forgiveness truly is for the one forgiving.
After bomb drop, I was so distraught I slept for only 90 minutes at a time. Night after night of terrible sleeps. One night, a few months after BD, I was blasted awake from my fitful sleep. My then STBXW was within a horribly vivid nightmarish hellish torture. The brutality and horribleness is beyond words.
I fell upon my knees. Right then and there. In the darkness at the edge of the bed. And I begged God to forgive J! I absolutely begged God! Imagine that. A scared frightened soul begging the almighty to forgive the one who betray them and their family; one who had betray themselves.
We can forgive actions. Only God can forgive the person or soul. And only God can judge their soul.
That’s my forgiveness. I do not wish upon her what I saw! I want no hand in that. God knows far more than I can ever comprehend, and I’ll leave her fate in His wise charge.
When you let go personal retribution or grudges or the need for karma; you are left with love. The world looks a whole lot different after that.
You are doing really well my friend.
D
BL42,
FWIW, I would allow myself revenge fantasies sometimes, to include calling the place of business and blowing up all the careers involved, to calling the top officer of the branch of service and have him smacked with punishment.....it was all fantasy. It helped, in it's own way. Then I took a deep breath and released that vengeance to God. That helped in a great way.
If I can't change the feeling, I can certainly change the thought. So, at times, if I wanted to really get dirty and think about how I would ruin him, I did that. And then I decided, chose, who I want to be and where I would spend my energy. And after time and healing and setbacks and forward movement, I just don't need to do that anymore. BUT. I give myself permission to feel however I feel and accept and release it.
You truly are doing great!!
x
So...it happened. I turned 40 over the weekend. Yikes! I don't feel old, but there was certainly a time in my life when I did consider this age old ;-) LOL
Some of you may remember I was cooped up last year in my house COVID-quarantining with the kids for my 39th. We celebrated with a small cake, candles, and ice cream delivered to our front door via InstaCart. That was actually kind of nice in a way, very intimate...though by the 17th day of having a then 5yo and 2yo within 20ft of me 24/7 I was getting a bit bunkers! Haha.
Anyway I said to myself I'd go all out this year for the BIG 4-0...throw a bash with all my friends and family or even fly to the Caribbean for a vacation, but with COVID uncertainty and honestly with life moving so fast those plans didn't come together.
Instead I took the kiddos on a weekend getaway out of state. We sat front row at Disney on Ice. D3 (in costume) was enthralled by Elsa, Cinderella, Rapunzel, and Minnie Mouse; S6 couldn't get over Maui and actual the fire on the ice. We then stayed overnight at a huge indoor water park where D3 took seemingly endless runs on the kiddie water slides and S6 went round and round the lazy river, shot hoops in the pool, and couldn't get enough of winning tickets for junky prizes at the arcade. My sister and niece even traveled down for an evening visit before we left on the trip. Birthday weekend was a huge success. We made some great memories :-)
I never expected to be a divorced 40yo single dad, but I'm striving to make the most of it. Overall life is actually pretty good. Sure I'm working through my emotions surrounding my sitch, but when I look objectively so many aspects are going great. I'm blessed with two wonderful children, fortunate to have such supportive family, a solid crew of friends, good health, a strong career and finances...etc. Not too bad.
Well, happy big 4-0!!!!! Welcome to the club. We were on lockdown for my 40th as well, no restaurants were open, no bars, no traveling, nada. I went to my dads with my D, we ordered take out Mexican and margs and I passed out in the recliner by 10! For 41 my friend threw me a small surprise pool party at her house and it was awesome.
I always enjoyed Disney on ice. The kids love it. And indoor water parks are always for the win. Bet I know where you went, lol. I’m taking my D and her friend on Presidents’ Day. She still loves them and I still love them.
Every aspect of your life seems pretty damn good! It’s good to not let divorce make everything positive negative. Funny how we tend to rate success in life based on our marital/ relationship ship status. It’s just a small part of our success in life
Good Morning BL
Happy 40th Birthday!
The weekend sounded like a blast. And, two kids that got to celebrate Dad’s 40th with him. Those will certainly be cherished memories, for kids and you.
It’s wonderful to hear you speak of how blessed you are; two wonderful kids at the top of the list. Life is pretty great.
Keep working through those temporary feelings. Remember they are fleeting. Valid yes, and fleeting. Treat them as such.
Now go rest. You are an old man. Hahaha. Just kidding. Lol.
Have a great day BL.
D
Happy 4-0, young'un!
I'm staring 52 in the face in a few weeks, so 40 is just a pleasant, but somewhat distant memory for me. Though it may not be the year/age you planned or hoped for, it sounds like you are killing it all the same. Here's to a wonderful year!
I never expected to be a divorced 40yo single dad, but I'm striving to make the most of it. Overall life is actually pretty good. Sure I'm working through my emotions surrounding my sitch, but when I look objectively so many aspects are going great. I'm blessed with two wonderful children, fortunate to have such supportive family, a solid crew of friends, good health, a strong career and finances...etc. Not too bad.
I hear you on this BL. Happy 40th! Life is only going to get better for you mate, just got to keep working on that game!
What's the latest?
Ginger1/DnJ/Dawn70/OnlyBent,
Well, happy big 4-0!!!!! Welcome to the club.
Good Morning BL Happy 40th Birthday!
Happy 4-0, young'un!
I'm staring 52 in the face in a few weeks, so 40 is just a pleasant, but somewhat distant memory for me. Though it may not be the year/age you planned or hoped for, it sounds like you are killing it all the same. Here's to a wonderful year!
I hear you on this BL. Happy 40th! Life is only going to get better for you mate, just got to keep working on that game!
Thanks for the birthday wishes!
I went to my dads with my D, we ordered take out Mexican and margs and I passed out in the recliner by 10!
Mexican food and margaritas sound incredible...wish I could be out on a deck in the warm sun enjoying some right now instead of the dead of Winter!
I always enjoyed Disney on ice. The kids love it.
They put on a good show. Adults can appreciate the skaters' skill, but the real selling point is the kid's reaction.
And indoor water parks are always for the win. Bet I know where you went, lol. I’m taking my D and her friend on Presidents’ Day. She still loves them and I still love them.
Awesome, enjoy! If it's the same one, they have an impressive facility and plenty of water rides for all ages.
It’s wonderful to hear you speak of how blessed you are; two wonderful kids at the top of the list. Life is pretty great.
Thanks, and indeed!
Keep working through those temporary feelings. Remember they are fleeting. Valid yes, and fleeting. Treat them as such.
Will do. I have my work cut out for me there. Definitely still have trigger points, and to Ginger's latest post may have them for quite some time.
[quote=DnJ]Now go rest. You are an old man. Hahaha. Just kidding. Lol.
Just kidding...sort of! LOL
OnlyBent,
My life is mostly kids and GAL. After my birthday weekend with the kids I was fortunate to also spend time with them Mon, Wed, and Fri during ExW's week. Then a very active "off" weekend. Friday evening a bunch of guys got together for our simulator golf league and then took me out for drinks afterwards for my birthday. Saturday AM gym work out, followed by ice skating in the afternoon, then dinner & drinks, sim golf, and playoff football games in the evening with two buddies. Sunday I went skiing by myself most of the day - struck up a conversation on the lift with a few folks- then watched football in the evening. My now-40 year old body felt a bit worn down by all that! The kids came back to me early due to weather and I flexed out of work yesterday for the MLK Holiday and we had a blast sledding both right in my yard and at a popular local hill. More good times & experiences with S6 & D3.
The only item of note on the D/ExW front is confirmation she's leaving her current employer (the bigger/main one in our area) to accept a job at the other similar employer in town. She previously did not want to work for them, but perhaps the work situation and rumor mill are a factor. Not seeking it out, but have been told administration and many coworkers aren't happy about her actions with the affair and she's no longer in favor for advancement opportunities; guess that's a "not my monkeys not my circus" situation. It is a supervisor position so that could explain it as well. The D agreement requires notification of employer change which ExW hasn't done yet, and a higher compensation level could potentially impact financial obligations, so we'll see if she fulfills her legal responsibility - I proactively reached out to my attorney with the info.
No updates/progress on the dating front. Finding very few OLD profiles with any promise, and even those I am potentially interested in don't seem to respond. I read some advice on Ginger & LH's threads; maybe I'll start my own discussion here at some point. The setups friends have mentioned have not come to fruition, and while I have a great career working remotely does not lend to meeting anyone in real life.
My life is mostly kids and GAL. After my birthday weekend with the kids I was fortunate to also spend time with them Mon, Wed, and Fri during ExW's week. Then a very active "off" weekend. Friday evening a bunch of guys got together for our simulator golf league and then took me out for drinks afterwards for my birthday. Saturday AM gym work out, followed by ice skating in the afternoon, then dinner & drinks, sim golf, and playoff football games in the evening with two buddies. Sunday I went skiing by myself most of the day - struck up a conversation on the lift with a few folks- then watched football in the evening. My now-40 year old body felt a bit worn down by all that! The kids came back to me early due to weather and I flexed out of work yesterday for the MLK Holiday and we had a blast sledding both right in my yard and at a popular local hill. More good times & experiences with S6 & D3.
Not only does it sound like you're killing it on the kids and GAL front, sounds like you're buidling a nice little post D life, that's the goal so well done!
No updates/progress on the dating front. Finding very few OLD profiles with any promise, and even those I am potentially interested in don't seem to respond. I read some advice on Ginger & LH's threads; maybe I'll start my own discussion here at some point. The setups friends have mentioned have not come to fruition, and while I have a great career working remotely does not lend to meeting anyone in real life.
Take every opportunity in real life to approach women you find attractive, say hi, strike up a normal conversation like they are a normal person....because they are. You will get rejected more often than not but who cares! I have had great success just meeting people in normal settings, I don't think I'll ever go to OLD now.
So today marks the two year anniversary of Bomb Day. I have a visceral memory of it...
Lying in bed sick from then-D1 and being contagious staying away from the rest of the family (not COVID, though my sitch closely aligns with the pandemic), now-ExW downstairs making dinner. She oddly got very angry with me for asking benign questions about the illness (she's in the medical field) and planning for then-S4's upcoming birthday party. She came upstairs and asked if I was happy and said she thinks we needed to separate, and I was stunned. Lying in bed sick from D1 I thought at first it was a fight and we'd work through, and then later after the kids went to bed talking for two hours and realizing my life might be coming apart.
Keep in mind this was just two weeks after we returned from what I thought was a very nice happy family vacation and a day after Valentines Day which I brought her flowers, an expensive custom card, and her favorite dessert (though she did nothing to reciprocate). It was also odd earlier that day she asked my mom to watch the kids for an hour even while I was in bed sick so she could get her nails done with her girlfriends, and instead stayed out most of the day. Looking back on it with perspective something was definitely up with her months prior, though we had a very nice weekend getaway for our 6th anniversary in September, I threw her a 35th birthday party for friends and family in October, and Christmas seemed good.
It still seems a bit surreal to me. Seemingly a lifetime ago now (back then the days seemed like months) and I've made good progress, but have to admit I've been riled up a bit and spinning at times in the last week or two, maybe because of the BD anniversary which will forever be associated with Valentines Day (sound familiar Ginger?). Although I can't possibly imagine taking her back at this point (not that she'd even try), I also hate my kids have to bounce back and forth and don't have the family unit they deserve and also if I'm being honest feel embarrassed at times I'm divorced. It feels surreal it "happened to me" for lack of a better phrase, and I wonder what people around town I know think.
There have been a few reminders contributing to my BD anniversary feelings. First, in digging up some work info on my laptop recently I happened upon my notes from the beginning of the sitch and IHS. It took me less than 24hrs to realize something wasn't right, and did tons of research on OM1 and his wife even had my buddy call him and a female mutual friend who worked at the same employer look into him (she would be shocked if he was the guy because he was "unattractive and scummy"). Anyway, it was an odd feeling to see those notes again. Second, I went on an annual trip with high school friends this past weekend (we skipped last year due to COVID) so the last time we went was two years ago a week or two after BD and I didn't really want to go. A couple of the guys commented I seemed to be doing much better (was checking phone logs repeatedly, not eating, all depressed...etc.). Third, video chatting with the kids this weekend while away and D3 takes the phone and runs around saying "this is OM2!" and "this is Ex-MIL!". I smile for her, but felt like a knife in my side and put a damper on the call (I realize not because of D3 - she doesn't know - just my own feelings to process), and it's certainly stirred up feelings of ill-will and desire of karma towards ExW, OM2, and Ex-MIL.
Recently D3 has been asking a lot of questions about "mommy" and how we used to live together and maybe she'll move back together. First, when toweling her off from a bath-time and she asked about the pet dog (lived with me 9 of 11 years) and maybe mommy and doggy could move back into daddy's house so we could all live together. I was admittedly caught off guard and I didn't know how to respond and just said something like "wouldn't that be nice, but that's up to mommy". Not sure if that was the best answer. Second, then a few days later my mom was driving her back from preschool and D3 mentioned she liked "mommy's old house better" and my mom said yes she had been there when daddy lived there and D3 asked several times "did mommy AND daddy live together? Did we all live together in the same house?", which my mom confirmed was true, and that gave D3 pause and then D3 said "I wish mommy and daddy and S6 and me lived all together still in daddy's house". And then yesterday D3 said she wants me to come so I can see her room in mommy's house. So...not sure the best way to respond and answer these items. I try to be honest without making her sad or talking poorly of ExW.
Objectively I'm doing so much better than a year or two ago, but still have emotions to process.
I'm typing this update while waiting for the kids to come back from their dinner night with ExW during my week with them. Life has certainly changed.
I was admittedly caught off guard and I didn't know how to respond and just said something like "wouldn't that be nice, but that's up to mommy"
Nope nope nope. Don't put it on your ex and don't give your daughter the idea that this is a possibility, because it's very unlikely to happen and she doesn't need to think it can.
Instead, try to put a positive spin on it. "You have two bedrooms and two blankies" "You have daddy here and Mommy and OM there". Or just factual - mommy already has OM she lives with . (If she does).
You might ask Ginger for her opinion on how to handle this. Despite the fact that her daughter was an infant when her ex split, she also got these questions from her daughter.
bomb day anniversary is always tough . and i know its really tough to answer those questions from a little one.
when you told your D on the spot “that would be nice , but its up to mommy”
is it really up to mommy? if she said “ i want to come back” would you really let her just come back?
i know you might say if she “does this this and this, i might think about letting her come back. however if she doesn't do what you would need, she could ask that question to her mom and she will say “its up to daddy”
its not really up to mommy to come home and i think you know that. i know you were caught off guard. i always just validated her feelings but i made sure that i never eluded to is ever living together. validation is the best course of action. no one is right, no one is wrong and never give false hope.
i do promise its gets easier . those comments and questions become less.
I was admittedly caught off guard and I didn't know how to respond and just said something like "wouldn't that be nice, but that's up to mommy"
Nope nope nope. Don't put it on your ex and don't give your daughter the idea that this is a possibility, because it's very unlikely to happen and she doesn't need to think it can.
Instead, try to put a positive spin on it. "You have two bedrooms and two blankies" "You have daddy here and Mommy and OM there". Or just factual - mommy already has OM she lives with . (If she does).
You might ask Ginger for her opinion on how to handle this. Despite the fact that her daughter was an infant when her ex split, she also got these questions from her daughter.
lol, we totally cross posted!
im going to add, like a real pain in the butt , like i already mentioned, the week on and week off that young is super hard on them. when they really start really wanting everyone in the same house , its because they are really missing the other parent. and even the dinner to break up the time seems like a tease.
Nope nope nope. Don't put it on your ex and don't give your daughter the idea that this is a possibility, because it's very unlikely to happen and she doesn't need to think it can.
Ok, point taken. Not the best response...I admitted as much above. Need to be better prepared next time.
Instead, try to put a positive spin on it. "You have two bedrooms and two blankies" "You have daddy here and Mommy and OM there". Or just factual - mommy already has OM she lives with . (If she does).
I won't promote OM2 as a positive. I haven't talked negatively about him to the kids or anything, but also plan to be honest if asked and won't put an inauthentic/untruthful spin pretending the D and their living w/their mom's AP is a good thing.
bomb day anniversary is always tough . and i know its really tough to answer those questions from a little one.
Thanks. Definitely stirring up some personal feelings but also want to handle the kids' questions in the best way possible.
when you told your D on the spot “that would be nice , but its up to mommy”
is it really up to mommy? if she said “ i want to come back” would you really let her just come back?
its not really up to mommy to come home and i think you know that.
Good point. I couldn't take her back at this point - all the king's horses and all the king's men - so you're right.
i know you were caught off guard.
Yes, indeed. Thanks for the feedback...think I'll be better prepared next time.
i always just validated her feelings but i made sure that i never eluded to is ever living together. validation is the best course of action. no one is right, no one is wrong and never give false hope.
Appreciate the validation reminder. I'll have to remember that approach.
i do promise its gets easier . those comments and questions become less.
Thanks Ginger. I don't doubt it.
All - Lots of focus on my brief response to D3...any thoughts on the rest of my update?
The rest? Yes, anniversaries of BD hurt, yes your wife was awful to spring it on you when you were sick in bed, yes it's all unfair. The anniversaries get better as time goes on (I usually don't remember my wedding anniversary anymore, last week I forgot it was my ex's birthday). There were multiple BDs and I never noted the dates so it's more just a seasonal feeling, but that's pretty much gone too. I used to keep some old emails from just weeks before the BD to remind me that I wasn't delusional, we did have a loving marriage. But I've long since deleted them too. As you move on it sure gets easier.
Also - re: your daughter - sometimes kids aren't asking what we THINK they're asking. It might be as simple as she wants everyone to live together because she likes the sheets on her bed at your house better, or some such. We do have to be careful not to over-read into what they say. Sounds like she loves everybody and would just like to have everybody together and it's good that she has those positive feelings.
Let go of OM stuff. I know it's infuriating and I'm sorry you have to deal with him but it's your WIFE who cheated on you, not him. It's in your best interest to have a cordial relationship with him and at least not betray any negative emotions about him to your kids. They don't need to be put in between. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer they say.
Although I can't possibly imagine taking her back at this point (not that she'd even try), I also hate my kids have to bounce back and forth and don't have the family unit they deserve and also if I'm being honest feel embarrassed at times I'm divorced.
So what if she said "BL I am so sorry for what I have done, it was a big mistake and I will spend the rest of my life trying to make it up to you and the kids"?
Although I can't possibly imagine taking her back at this point (not that she'd even try), I also hate my kids have to bounce back and forth and don't have the family unit they deserve and also if I'm being honest feel embarrassed at times I'm divorced.
So what if she said "BL I am so sorry for what I have done, it was a big mistake and I will spend the rest of my life trying to make it up to you and the kids"?
Well similar to what I said to SteveLW in OB's thread regarding boundaries around a PA, I'll preface my answer with "you never truly know how you'll respond until you're tested in real life", but honestly believe I would not and could not accept her back at this point. Too much damage has been done. Lies, betrayal...etc. I honestly don't feel a desire to be with for her anymore, but still lament the impact to my family situation. It's a odd paradox. Mad at the forced change in situation paired with the knowledge that even so there's no going back.
It's really not just the cheating, is it? It's the lying to your face, the selfishness and lack of concern for the effect on your children etc. It really shows you something about your spouse's character.
I foolishly forgave my ex when he slept with an old flame the night before our wedding. I DB'd him back when he had an affair 16 years into our marriage. When he left after 24 years of marriage I was done with a capital D. I'm glad I have my 3 kids, but do wonder what my life would have looked like if I'd paid more attention to the character defects early in our relationship. And I wouldn't care if he came crawling back on his knees tomorrow, I'd never even consider taking him back. Because I know he has character defects that are such that I could never trust him again.
Well similar to what I said to SteveLW in OB's thread regarding boundaries around a PA, I'll preface my answer with "you never truly know how you'll respond until you're tested in real life", but honestly believe I would not and could not accept her back at this point. Too much damage has been done. Lies, betrayal...etc. I honestly don't feel a desire to be with for her anymore, but still lament the impact to my family situation. It's a odd paradox. Mad at the forced change in situation paired with the knowledge that even so there's no going back.
Fair enough BL. It's interesting that although there is no going back you still want her her and OM to fall apart. I am not saying you are wrong for having these feelings it just runs into the whole forgiveness and unconditional love conversations.
@kml, the night before your wedding?! I didn’t catch that before. How horrible.
@BL42 - As for other thoughts, it’s natural to hurt on an anniversary and we’ve all experienced that. Each anniversary you’ll feel it less. The dream that was, the nightmare after. You are building a new life that can be amazing, too. Note, your continuing anger towards OM2 hurts you not him. Whatever karma or justice is due to him, for continuing with your ex-wife once he realized she had recently broken her wedding vows to you, will happen whether or not you get upset when you’re talking with your daughter over FaceTime and he appears.
Yeah - she was a girl he had been friends with in college, never slept with, and one of many college friends he invited to our wedding. My H and all his friends all slept in the family home, while I slept with my family in the lake house where the reception would be, a half hour away.
Apparently they all were drinking together, then they went to bed, then she crept into his bedroom and they had sex. HIS story was that he regretted it instantly. I put it down to last minute jitters.
6 months later I found the journal where he was mooning over her. I tried to throw him out then but he begged and pleaded. It wasn't until a few years later when I was 9 months pregnant with our second child that I discovered that she had gotten pregnant from that encounter and had had an abortion while we were on our 6 week honeymoon. Ugh
I'll skip the long personal details, but I can relate 100% to what you're experiencing. I'm 7 1/2 years into it. Based on your summary, you are doing everything right, that's awesome! Keep up the great work and don't quit, ever.
It's really not just the cheating, is it? It's the lying to your face, the selfishness and lack of concern for the effect on your children etc. It really shows you something about your spouse's character.
kml - Absolutely. Most definitely. It's interesting...since BD/D I've heard stories from people, even those close to her, about her always having those traits but it wasn't my experience of her when we were together so it's hard to wrap my head around it. Was she that way all along and I missed red flags or did she keep it hidden only to have them surface, but then how do you hide that for 7-9 years? It's a bit of a mystery to me and my family.
Fair enough BL. It's interesting that although there is no going back you still want her her and OM to fall apart. I am not saying you are wrong for having these feelings it just runs into the whole forgiveness and unconditional love conversations.
LH - I do have feelings of revenge and karma at times, and those feelings do run counter to forgiveness and unconditional love. I admit it. Hopefully over time I can work through my pain and process those feelings and get to a better place for my own sake so I don't have the anger and pain inside. I'm assuming time helps as well.
@kml, the night before your wedding?! I didn’t catch that before. How horrible.
It wasn't until a few years later when I was 9 months pregnant with our second child that I discovered that she had gotten pregnant from that encounter and had had an abortion while we were on our 6 week honeymoon. Ugh
kml - That's despicable. I'm not even sure what to say. Sorry you had to go through that.
@BL42 - As for other thoughts, it’s natural to hurt on an anniversary and we’ve all experienced that. Each anniversary you’ll feel it less. The dream that was, the nightmare after. You are building a new life that can be amazing, too. Note, your continuing anger towards OM2 hurts you not him. Whatever karma or justice is due to him, for continuing with your ex-wife once he realized she had recently broken her wedding vows to you, will happen whether or not you get upset when you’re talking with your daughter over FaceTime and he appears.
Thanks Traveler. Excellent point when you say "your continuing anger towards OM2 hurts you not him." You're of course correct. I feel my anger and OM2 isn't even aware of it. I need to ponder that and work on it for myself. Don't give ExW and OM2 headspace and allow them to negatively impact my outlook.
I'll skip the long personal details, but I can relate 100% to what you're experiencing. I'm 7 1/2 years into it. Based on your summary, you are doing everything right, that's awesome! Keep up the great work and don't quit, ever.
mvg - Really appreciate you chiming in, and the words of encouragement. I just read through your latest thread and plan to respond and read through all your threads when I get a chance. Sounds like your 5 years ahead of me with very similar situations (we both had a 4yo & 1yo when the affair/BD/divorce happened).
Pretty good week with the kids. We met up w/my sister, BIL, and niece at a lake house last weekend and the cousins had a great time playing together. Even though it's ExW's week I got to spend all day Monday (holiday), Wednesday (after school/dinner) and all day yesterday (snow day) with S6 and D3 because ExW had to work. We played in the snow, did dominoes, a pretty extensive puzzle, watched shows, read books...etc. Lots of good bonding time. My fear of losing out on their lives is not as bad as I initially thought, as I'm spending quality time with them the majority of days on my off weeks as well. I did sign up to coach S6's baseball team again this year and lined up one of his buddies to be on the team (whose dad will help out) and I'm still coaching soccer so the Spring will be busy! But it's fun and give me an extra special connection w/my son.
This weekend w/o the kids I did a golf sim league and food & drinks last night w/a buddy who's also going through a D, hit the gym with two other buddies this morning, going ice skating this afternoon by myself, and tomorrow meeting a group of friends for brunch to celebrate one of their birthdays. So trying to have fun and stay active and social when I don't have the kids.
ExW did notify me last week about her new employer/job/salary. She got a 17-18% increase over from her previous income listed in the divorce agreement just 9 months ago, which hits the threshold for opening up the possibility of renegotiating child support. She seems to be under the impression she's required to formally review in family court for some reason, which I don't think is the case, and asked how I wanted to approach - either go to court or figure it out between the two of us - to which I replied the latter to avoid lawyers costs and court appearances (plus the math is fairly simple) but she responded saying she changed her mind and wants a judge to review any financial issues. So unfortunately less than a year into the D I may need to deal with court again, but on the bright side ExW was transparent about it (as she's required to be under the agreement) and if anything I should benefit financially.
My fear of losing out on their lives is not as bad as I initially thought
In hindsight do you think this fear, initially, is somewhat based on trying to make the WS the bad guy or blame them?
BL, you seem like you are doing pretty well re family, job, social life. I know dating is a bit hard in your small town, have you thought about how you'll attack this or do you even care right now?
OnlyBent,
My fear of losing out on their lives is not as bad as I initially thought
In hindsight do you think this fear, initially, is somewhat based on trying to make the WS the bad guy or blame them?
I really don't think so. To me the two are separate. Many people going through a D are concerned about losing half (or more) of their children's lives whether or not they're stuck on blaming the other spouse.
BL, you seem like you are doing pretty well re family, job, social life. I know dating is a bit hard in your small town, have you thought about how you'll attack this or do you even care right now?
Dating's been low on my priority list - I've mostly been focusing on the kids and also my own self improvement - but I am interested in exploring it more at this point.
In terms of a strategy, I did sign up for OLD a few months after the D finalized. I swipe through but have gotten very little response for some reason. One factor I think hurts me is although I have a very good career, I work at home / virtually with people from all over country and have no chance to interact with anyone in person during the majority of my day like those in another field interacting in-person regularly. Coaching S6's sports teams has led me to meeting a lot of parents and kids and expanded my network so maybe something will surface there. Some of my other activities like adult soccer league and golf league are male-dominated, so not sure if other more coed activities would help.
To your question about whether I even care...there's certainly part of me that's lonely at times and misses the interaction with a significant other, no doubt. So I care in that regard. There's also another part of me that might be a little apathetic though. The other night D3 was having a very hard time with the transition and I had to console her for a long time and I thought how can I possibly date while this is going on in their lives (both because they deserve the focus, and also because what woman would want to jump into a situation like that). There's also a friend of a friend who was at brunch with us Sunday who I can tell (and have been told by my friends) is very interested in me. She's very nice and cute but not sure why I'm not overly enthusiastic, either I'm not feeling it with her specifically or maybe dating in general.
I'm not overly enthusiastic, either I'm not feeling it with her specifically or maybe dating in general.
Take your time. I would wait a year if I were you. You have young kids and I think you still need time to process the end of your marriage.
She's very nice and cute but not sure why I'm not overly enthusiastic, either I'm not feeling it with her specifically or maybe dating in general.
Could be you're not ready to add the complication of dating - or could just be the pheromones are wrong. Sometimes someone looks great for us on paper but the attraction just isn't there. Maybe just give it time, if you see her in more settings with friends your feelings might change - or you might pick up more obvious red flags.
Although I'm at a completely different stage of life than you (65, adult children, boyfriend recently died) I imagine we both would be happy right now with someone who we saw occasionally but weren't in a full time relationship with. That's probably WAY easier for me to find than for you in your age bracket. But who knows - another woman whose custody schedule matches up with yours and whose children are her primary focus, might be available for the occsional night out or weekend without kids?
Hopefully as the pandemic lifts, those soccer parents will start having parties you could attend where you might meet single women.
Take your time. I would wait a year if I were you. You have young kids and I think you still need time to process the end of your marriage.
This is the question BL, do you think you have fully processed the end of your marriage yet?
We are on basically the same timeline so curious as to where you are at. Everyone is different of course. I think I have, but then perhaps maybe I didn't love my W as much as I think I did.
Take your time. I would wait a year if I were you. You have young kids and I think you still need time to process the end of your marriage.
This is the question BL, do you think you have fully processed the end of your marriage yet?
We are on basically the same timeline so curious as to where you are at. Everyone is different of course. I think I have, but then perhaps maybe I didn't love my W as much as I think I did.
Based on what I read I feel Bent is ahead of BL. I think Bent now realizes his marriage wasn't that great and has pretty much moved on. BL I still don't think you are convinced and have moved on. Ginger hates to see you emotionally unavailable guys out there taking up her valuable time. BL there is no rush so take your time.
yes LH, is correct. Emotionally available women do get frustrated with emotionally unavailable men in the dating world. I did date briefly this summer a recently divorced guy with a 3 and a 5 year old and 50:50 custody. I liked him the most out of all my dates, but he wasn’t in a place to date for real.
I do understand where you are coming from. I tried to date and failed when my daughter was little. I didn’t have enough to give all around with all the changes in my life and my daughters . Things had to settle first and for me, it was a while, because I had most custody, had to change jobs a bunch of times to make it work and I had no help. I got involved kn some unhealthy situations with men out of the loneliness and I regret that .
I do admire that you have enough self awareness right now to know this is a big change for the little ones that takes adjusting and also that you couldn’t put what you would need to into dating and a relationship.
Your time will come, and don’t worry, I’m a rarity and you won’t end up like me. I’m in the 2% of the single after so many years
Forgive the lengthy post, but thought a lot about these comments...
kml,
Could be you're not ready to add the complication of dating - or could just be the pheromones are wrong. Sometimes someone looks great for us on paper but the attraction just isn't there. Maybe just give it time, if you see her in more settings with friends your feelings might change - or you might pick up more obvious red flags.
Good post, lots to think about. I'll give it time and see what happens. As LH says, no rush. Part of it might be she does not have kids and although she's good with kids (works in an elementary school) and has told friends she thinks mine are cute and I'm a great dad, I wonder if anyone without kids can really appreciate how hard it is and actually understand what they'd be getting in to.
Although I'm at a completely different stage of life than you (65, adult children, boyfriend recently died) I imagine we both would be happy right now with someone who we saw occasionally but weren't in a full time relationship with. That's probably WAY easier for me to find than for you in your age bracket. But who knows - another woman whose custody schedule matches up with yours and whose children are her primary focus, might be available for the occsional night out or weekend without kids?
That would be nice, though suspect you're right it's more difficult at my age. I did reach out to two single moms I kind of know who are attractive and good moms and thought might be a good bit, but didn't get interest reciprocated.
Hopefully as the pandemic lifts, those soccer parents will start having parties you could attend where you might meet single women.
Agreed! Wouldn't that be nice (not just the single women but the living life again).
LH19/OnlyBent,
Take your time. I would wait a year if I were you. You have young kids and I think you still need time to process the end of your marriage.
This is the question BL, do you think you have fully processed the end of your marriage yet
Instead of responding immediately, I reflected a good bit on this question last night. The simple answer is I don't know.
I've made a lot of progress certainly. Have I
fully processed it? Probably not. But then has anyone have completely healed from such a significant pain? There's always a scar even after it heals, and though that scar fades with time it's never 100% gone.
My neighbor is the epidemy of a quality man...smart, kind, generous, hard working, thoughtful, stable, dependable, good career, great family man...etc. Just about everything you'd want in a father, husband, or neighbor. Two decades ago or more his wife had affairs and split up his family. He was crushed and spinning. Ended up meeting up w/the wife of OM (who happened to be my neighbor). She was also a quality woman and great mother while her husband was running all over town. The two of them ended up getting together, remarrying, and have a
wonderful relationship, whereas their Exs did not stay together and bounced around to other people, and her ExH is now in legal trouble for some financials he previously was involved with. Anyway, the point I'm getting at is despite the new great file I know there are still times two decades later when my neighbor has emotions and hurts related to what happened (though few and far between). He's talked to me a little bit about my situation but even more so I just know he empathizes with me and is there to help. I get comfort in knowing he understands what I'm going through and is there if needed.
From the perspective of the five stages of grief...I had some denial at first (thinking it wasn't as serious of an issue and we'd work through it), bargaining (begging and pleading and offering concessions to ExW), certainly a long period of depression after the denial wore off and the bargaining wasn't working. However, I believe I've found acceptance. There is an occasion time or two it seems surreal that I'm divorced when I see a situation much worse than what I perceived mine to be where the couple is together and/or worked through it. But in general I accept I am divorced and am working on making my new normal the best it can be. Where I have been spinning lately is anger at ExW, OM2, and ExMIL - think I've been pretty open and honest about that on my thread - and working through it, though I tend to post more when I have struggles than when things are good (and they mostly are), so maybe that biases things.
In terms of my feelings to ExW, I'm not pining over or longing for for in any way. She's a very physically attractive person and always was, so there are times when I see her when I have that initial feeling, but with the way she betrayed me and lied to me and treated me (and our kids) I'm honestly not attracted to her in any way - more annoyed and repulsed at the need to deal with her, though I do deal with her and am cordial if not friendly in our interactions for the kids' sake. But I have no desire to R, even though I still lament the lost of our nuclear family.
So overall I think I've accepted the divorce & end of my marriage and am working towards making my new normal great, but admittedly need to work on the brief periods of anger I still feel.
Hopefully that makes sense - not sure if others here get that same sense or disagree.
We are on basically the same timeline so curious as to where you are at. Everyone is different of course. I think I have, but then perhaps maybe I didn't love my W as much as I think I did.
Based on what I read I feel Bent is ahead of BL. I think Bent now realizes his marriage wasn't that great and has pretty much moved on. BL I still don't think you are convinced and have moved on.
Not sure how to measure who's "ahead". He's dated decent amount; I haven't. He mentioned recently going out to dinner with his ExW and son, which I'm not ready to do. So he certainly could be a bit ahead of me in the journey. Though I'd say it's not a race and the two of us seemed to have progress fairly well overall considering.
In terms of my marriage I definitely had frustrations at times over SSM and kids nutrition/screen time disagreement so perhaps some resentment built up. Our kids were also young and never slept well so we were tired and not focused on each other as much as we should. But we had a pretty good life IMO and I don't think there's a single marriage or LTR which doesn't have any friction, so overall I thought we were above average. Obviously ExW didn't feel the same and blew things up. I was willing to work on things as soon as she mentioned any major concern, but apparently it was too late at that point. Perhaps I still have some rose colored glasses, don't know, but we didn't fight much and went on vacations and had good family and friend support and great finances a good house and cars and lots of great memories, so definitely didn't seem like a marriage that couldn't be saved and go on to a long happy life together if she was willing. But she wasn't. I've accepted that.
LH19/Ginger1,
Ginger hates to see you emotionally unavailable guys out there taking up her valuable time. BL there is no rush so take your time.
yes LH, is correct. Emotionally available women do get frustrated with emotionally unavailable men in the dating world.
Am I emotionally unavailable? I honestly don't know. Don't think I've had a chance to find out yet, as I've only gone on one date and a hookup 9 months ago. I'm certainly not pining over my Ex and think I could open up to the right person, but perhaps I'm still raw and could use more time - probably won't know for sure until I start going on more dates.
I did date briefly this summer a recently divorced guy with a 3 and a 5 year old and 50:50 custody. I liked him the most out of all my dates, but he wasn’t in a place to date for real.
Sounds like a good guy, but I can certainly relate to how the little ones make it difficult.
I do admire that you have enough self awareness right now to know this is a big change for the little ones that takes adjusting and also that you couldn’t put what you would need to into dating and a relationship.
Thanks :-) I certainly pride myself in being a fantastic father and making the kiddos my priority. That wouldn't surprise anyone pre-BD/D either, though it's even gotten more focus/clarity since (if possible).
It's hard for me to imagine how I'd not make my kids #1 at this point and actually integrate a family. Even though ExW seems to have done that with OM2 it seems like it'd be disruptive for me to do it regardless. Maybe that's my own hang up, but a consideration in dating. Obviously that won't be anytime soon and at this point there's plenty of time to worry about it.
Your time will come, and don’t worry, I’m a rarity and you won’t end up like me. I’m in the 2% of the single after so many years
I think part of my spin is how seemingly quickly and easily ExW merged OM2 into a "one big family family" with my kids and her mom and his sister...etc., whereas I haven't even been out on multiple dates with anyone. I'm sure you empathize therewith your Ex & OW and a 6 month old baby. Feels unfair our Exs just stepped into a new situation so seamlessly.
That guy was a nice guy. But he didn’t want to put in effort. He just wanted to spend time at his convenience . That doesn’t work for me.
You know how I always post it drives me crazy when guys say “my kids are my number one priority?” I’ll explain that. Everyone’s kids should be their number one priority. It goes without saying. A lot of people are under the assumption that when dating as a single parent, the kids would have to get kicked out that position. Not at all! It’s finding the time and learning to balance dating on a priority list . How to learn how to give both emotionally and time wise to both dating/ a partner and your children. It’s not easy! It’s a real challenge. But totally doable. When you don’t have the kids, do you want to give a fair amount of energy to dating? If you are partnered up, will they be somewhere on the priority list when the kids are with the other parent ? When you are with the kids, can you make time for some contact?
I remember with M , On his non kid time, he prioritized a lot of stuff before our relationship. Should I be #1 all the time ? Absolutely not! We both had lives and hobbies. But he would put that stuff before special events that were important to me.
I’ve dated a lot of guys who use the “my kids are my number one priority” to have an out of effort and commitment. That’s not cool with me. They also tend to forget I have a child too and I manage to prioritize .
In conclusion, you never have to take your kids off the priority list. You just have to learn how to work it all in.
The most important thing before dating is to be sure you are really DONE with your ex - that you wouldn't take them back even if they came crawling back. It's just not fair to date people and then end up reconciling. But it sounds like you are safely there.
As for the schoolteacher - the thing I'd be most concerned about it, does she want children? And if you did date a woman who wanted to have kids, would you be open to it? If not - if you feel yours are enough and you don't want to father more kids - you should avoid dating childless women unless they make it clear they have never wanted to have kids.
And please, don't introduce your kids to your dates until you've been dating at least 6 months and are pretty sure it is going somewhere. Kids don't need to go through the process of getting emotionally attached and then experiencing another loss when the relationship breaks up.
I wonder if anyone without kids can really appreciate how hard it is and actually understand what they'd be getting in to.
When you ask someone on a date, all they're getting into is a date with you!
Are you imagining a new nuclear family? Your kids have a mom already. As for if you and she hit it off, what role she may play in your kids' lives, that depends on how they hit it off. Wolfman noted his D accepted his XW's BF but didn't accept his GF. It was unfair as he said, but there was nothing he could do to force the dynamic. After he got his GF got pregnant and he moved her in permanently, his D moved out permanently. Post-D families can look different. Flexibility is needed.
As for the schoolteacher - the thing I'd be most concerned about it, does she want children?
Fair point. I had a childless GF for 5yrs beginning a year after my divorce. Both our profiles said, "Maybe" for more kids. 2 years in she wanted them. Within a month I said "No". She broke up with me for a summer before she came to terms with it and returned for 3 years. We owe honesty. Dating someone who may later want kids can work but can cause drama.
please, don't introduce your kids to your dates until you've been dating at least 6 months and are pretty sure it is going somewhere. Kids don't need to go through the process of getting emotionally attached and then experiencing another loss when the relationship breaks up.
I agree we should avoid getting our kids emotionally attached to someone you've only dated a short time. It was bizarre when Steve_ (newcomers) had his kids giving presents to his GF of 1 month?! I've revisited not introducing them for 6mo. It's nice to see how they interact, and a single 1-2hr encounter together isn't going to get them attached. I haven't worked out how much contact is appropriate to avoid attachment--whether that's every 6 weeks or whatever. Figuring it out.
I agree we should avoid getting our kids emotionally attached to someone you've only dated a short time. It was bizarre when Steve_ (newcomers) had his kids giving presents to his GF of 1 month?! I've revisited not introducing them for 6mo. It's nice to see how they interact, and a single 1-2hr encounter together isn't going to get them attached. I haven't worked out how much contact is appropriate to avoid attachment--whether that's every 6 weeks or whatever. Figuring it out.
Uuuummm wasn't your "girlfriend" of 3 weeks just hanging out with your kids?
Yes, as I stated above--
I've revisited not introducing them for 6mo. It's nice to see how they interact, and a single 1-2hr encounter together isn't going to get them attached. I haven't worked out how much contact is appropriate to avoid attachment--whether that's every 6 weeks or whatever. Figuring it out.
Ah I misread. You are creating a new narrative.
Learning and growing. Goal #1 - Don't get your kids attached. "Don't introduce them for 6-12mo" is a solid strategy and what I've always for the 11yrs since leaving my XW. My kids have met or heard about only two girlfriends in 11yrs. I've been a rather solid barrier. In 3 months, Ms. Sunshine's pressure never convinced me to introduce her to my kids.
She did get me thinking, though that a) sharing what your family looks like is helpful, b) seeing how your kids interact with a potential partner is helpful and c) if things get further, a bit of familiarity isn't a bad thing.
It's something I plan to research further. Learning and growing.
Didn't your kids already know this woman socially too?
Yes, that helped, too! Every situation is different.
Ginger1,
A lot of people are under the assumption that when dating as a single parent, the kids would have to get kicked out that position. Not at all! It’s finding the time and learning to balance dating on a priority list. How to learn how to give both emotionally and time wise to both dating/ a partner and your children. It’s not easy! It’s a real challenge. But totally doable.
I’ve dated a lot of guys who use the “my kids are my number one priority” to have an out of effort and commitment. That’s not cool with me. They also tend to forget I have a child too and I manage to prioritize .
In conclusion, you never have to take your kids off the priority list. You just have to learn how to work it all in.
Good point. Kids are my most important but that doesn't mean no priority for a dating partner either. I'm a put in the effort kind of guy, so don't think this would be the case once I start dating more, but to your point it will be challenging to balance and fit it all in but certainly possible.
The most important thing before dating is to be sure you are really DONE with your ex - that you wouldn't take them back even if they came crawling back. It's just not fair to date people and then end up reconciling. But it sounds like you are safely there.
You can never know for certain until real life presents itself, but honestly believe I'm completely done w/ExW.
As for the schoolteacher - the thing I'd be most concerned about it, does she want children? And if you did date a woman who wanted to have kids, would you be open to it? If not - if you feel yours are enough and you don't want to father more kids - you should avoid dating childless women unless they make it clear they have never wanted to have kids.
Interesting question. I love being a father and absolutely would've been open to more children in our family before BD/D, and was initially thinking I'd be open to more afterwards as well (in relation to meeting new women, but as time progresses and things settle I find myself more and more leaning towards "no". Guess it'll depend on the woman and how I feel at the time, but I find myself thinking "that's probably it".
And please, don't introduce your kids to your dates until you've been dating at least 6 months and are pretty sure it is going somewhere. Kids don't need to go through the process of getting emotionally attached and then experiencing another loss when the relationship breaks up.
I agree w/this stance. I thought it horrible they had to go through mom moving out and then almost immediately having a new guy move in. What a confusing whirlwind of disruption. They don't need to experience that with dad too. I assume, as well as some ramp up time of getting to know the other person if it does become serious before moving in so abruptly.
When you ask someone on a date, all they're getting into is a date with you!
Good point. Don't put the cart before the horse; one date at a time.
Are you imagining a new nuclear family? Your kids have a mom already. As for if you and she hit it off, what role she may play in your kids' lives, that depends on how they hit it off...Post-D families can look different. Flexibility is needed.
I'm not looking for a replacement mother. A future woman I date will never be their mom. However, my kids are very young and to have a LTR will likely mean integrating that future woman in with the kids at some point. A part of dating is seeing if you're compatible and with me that also means two young children. Doesn't mean I can't go out on a few times and just enjoy the dates but at some point there will be a decision to be made, so that'll be a factor in the back of my mind for a long time. It'd be different if they were older, say teenage or college, and then a major step like moving in wouldn't be as disruptive.
Well, moving in with teenagers could definitely be disruptive, but if you met a women when your kids were teens, you could just date and wait until they're out of the home to move in together.
I agree that with your kids as young as they are, you may end up in a blended situation if you want a long-term relationship.
It's been awhile since my last update...
My son turned 7 last month. We went all out to throw him a family party in the theme he wanted the weekend before his birthday. He loved it and all his presents, and I could tell he felt genuinely happy and loved to be with me, his sister, my parents, and my sister and nice who came in from out of town. ExW for some reason offered me to switch dinner nights the following week so I could spend his actual birthday with him despite it being her year, which was oddly/surprisingly nice added bonus and because he didn't have school the next day he stayed overnight too and we spent the next day together as well.
This week the kids have Spring Break so I'm taking them on a few overnights to a theme park, kids museum, and baseball game. Fingers cross on the weather, but looking forward to making some memories. We're also going to visit my sister and her family next weekend which should be fun S7 and D3 love being there and playing with their aunt, uncle, and cousin. ExW offered to split Easter even though it's her year so it's nice she's offering me up more time with the kids - some reasonableness in an otherwise unreasonable situation she caused.
Overall though, and not sure the right word, but I feel like I've had a bit of regression or backslide lately. Maybe it's a hint of depression not giving me as much energy. Just seemed like I was firing on all cylinders in the Fall and really crushing it in so many areas (kids, work, grad school, gym routine...etc.) whereas the last month or two I've been more worn down. For example, I would get back from a day of work and coaching son's soccer and go right to the gym but lately I've haven't found the energy and instead skipped it to go home and just relax. Also I got an A in my grad school course last year but didn't pick it up this semester.
It's almost like I was on a full out sprint the last last and a half to do absolutely everything I could (especially for the kids) and maybe that's not sustainable over the long run and it's catching up to me. I can't tell you how much I've bent over backwards with flexing out at work to spend as much time as possible with them and show them they're loved, especially now when they're so young and have more time I want to maximize it. As they get older they'll have more of their own activities and interests. Even next year when my daughter is in school longer days I'll probably have more of a breather.
I've continued to do well GAL'ing with my buddies on my free time. However, I've slacked at the gym lately and am not as feeling in as good of shape. I need to recommit there and find a way to consistently get there when I have the kids.
Dating (or lack thereof) has been a point of frustration as well. I realize I'm much fresher into it than many of you but coming up on a year of the divorce being official and over 6 months of online dating, with little to no result. I don't mean result as in finding an LTR but even just matches and chats or dare I say dates. You all don't know me in real life, but consider myself to be a great catch. I'm a legitimate 6' tall (not lying about it for OLD), not ripped but above average looks and in-shape for my age, very well off financially, a great father, a good friend and man...etc., but the very few matches aren't good leads (out of town...etc.) and inevitably if I see an attractive single mother profile that I could see as promising I won't even hear back. Not sure if they're no longer on the platform or if I think higher of myself than I'm actually worth lol. I have a fantastic career and make great money but working remotely in my home office on the phone with folks all over the country/world really limits my in real life interactions with new local people. Plus no one I know seems to know any single woman my age in the area. On the other hand when I'm struggling with the two young kids, especially a 3yo, I think maybe it's unrealistic to date now anyway as why would anyone want to deal with a single dad. However, I do get lonely and wish a woman to connect with emotionally and physically.
Anyway...don't mean to sound too down. I have to admit life is pretty good overall with the kids and my job, just been more of a down month or two. Just need to kick start myself again with the gym and re-energize myself to get back on track and hitting all cylinders like I was before. Hopefully the weather starting to change will help with my attitude and getting out and about more. It'd be great to find some dates this Spring/Summer or even meet someone special and experience some of the adult romantic relationship I've missed over the past two years.
BL… RE: OLD… I’m not sure what your profile looks like but make sure you have decent pictures (no mirror selfies, no pics of you lying on a bed shirtless…no shirtless pictures period unless you are on a beach, no pictures of you and attractive females). Also…in your written statement about yourself (and please have one…pics only just says “lazy”, my pics should be enough”, or “I’m not really serious about this”) make sure you are really positive in what you say and don’t say things like “no drama please” as that implies your life is filled with drama. If you have good female friends, maybe get them take a look at your profile to see what their reaction would be if they didn’t know you. Also…don’t have a long list of what you are looking for. A woman may read your six criteria and think that she matches five but not six so swipes left, not wanting to set herself up for rejection…especially if you say something about not wanting to settle. Bottom line…you want to appear approachable and friendly, confident but not arrogant, and serious but not too serious. It’s a fine line to walk which is why I would get some female friends to give you some feedback if possible.
Most importantly… if you do reach out to someone, read their profile and make sure you bring up something that they wrote about. Don’t just say “Hey” or “Hi Beautiful. How is your day going?” or something equally generic. Or “your search is over” which is one I got the other day…lol. The person you are contacting wants to know that you read her profile and are reaching out because you saw something unique about her that you liked. I have no problem ignoring the greetings that the other person could have sent to multiple people at the same time but I tend to return the messages that are specific to me unless the other person is a hard no. I used to respond to those as well, to be polite… thank them for reaching out but I didn’t think we would be a match. But then they would want to argue about it or want me to tell them exactly why and I really didn’t want to get into it. So now I just don’t respond to people I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be attracted to. I feel bad about it but I’ve realized it’s just easier.
Glad to hear everything else in your life is going well.
DejaVu6,
Appreciate the feedback.
BL… RE: OLD… I’m not sure what your profile looks like but make sure you have decent pictures (no mirror selfies, no pics of you lying on a bed shirtless…no shirtless pictures period unless you are on a beach, no pictures of you and attractive females).
When I first created an OLD account I realize I had no pictures of just me in the last decade. They were all mostly of or with my kids and also my ExW. So I took one or two decent selfies on my own but probably need to up my picture game.
Bottom line…you want to appear approachable and friendly, confident but not arrogant, and serious but not too serious. It’s a fine line to walk which is why I would get some female friends to give you some feedback if possible.
Thanks for the feedback, I'll work on it.
Most importantly… if you do reach out to someone, read their profile and make sure you bring up something that they wrote about.
I try to be unique / clever and not generic, but sometimes it's tough without a lot to go on.
Dating (or lack thereof) has been a point of frustration as well. I realize I'm much fresher into it than many of you but coming up on a year of the divorce being official and over 6 months of online dating, with little to no result.
Patience, patience, patience.
I don't mean result as in finding an LTR but even just matches and chats or dare I say dates.
Well Dejavu and most women swipe right on 1 of 200 men. Then those that they do end up matching with they go on a date with these men less then 5% of the time so it sounds about right.
You all don't know me in real life, but consider myself to be a great catch. I'm a legitimate 6' tall (not lying about it for OLD), not ripped but above average looks and in-shape for my age, very well off financially, a great father, a good friend and man...etc.,
Yeah on paper you should be good to go. Do you dare post your profile and let Ginger rip it up? Warning do not say "my children come first" she will go ballistic lol.
But the very few matches aren't good leads (out of town...etc.) and inevitably if I see an attractive single mother profile that I could see as promising I won't even hear back.
There are quite a few fake profiles out there but also a woman will on average respond to 1 in every 120 messages.
Not sure if they're no longer on the platform or if I think higher of myself than I'm actually worth lol.
Over valuing yourself is the number one problem with OLDing. Men are valued on looks and status and women are valued on looks and youth.
Anyway...don't mean to sound too down. I have to admit life is pretty good overall with the kids and my job, just been more of a down month or two.
So I ran into the first friend I ever had at the store. Just moved back into town. His GF of 24 years said she was done, felt like roommates not working on fixing it and his daughter was recently diagnosed with MS. Life could be worse BL.
LH19,
Very true. My health, two great kids, good friends, a good career & finances...etc. There are a whole lot of positives.
Hi BL! Sounds like you have a fun time planned with your kids. And you are right, it is not sustainable to bend over backwards to prove to your kids your love. I understand why you felt the need for a while, but it’s not a realistic or a long term way of parenting. I dated a guy who was like that. It was just too much.
As far as your firing on all cylinders with work, GAL, school, gym, kids….. also not sustainable! For some reason is Americans feel the need to burn our selves out and over commit ourselves. Why? It’a not likely a depression that is causing you to slow down. Sometimes too much is too much. We are not built for that. My daughter is away. Friday night was supposed to be drinks with coworkers. Saturday night dinner with a friend, Sunday after work my date. On Friday I had an annoying headache and I just didn’t feel like going out for drinks. I felt like being alone in my sweats on my couch. And that’s normal! I get FOMO sometimes, but I needed to recharge. I don’t need to accept every social invite. I don’t need to be in the gym every day . Life needs to be sustainable. You are burning out and it’s OK to chill!
As far as dating. Let me put some things in perspective for you with OLD. You obviously are able to say you are a good catch and why you are a good catch and it makes total sense to you because you know you. And OLD profile is a small blurb and view of you. No one can possibly know how good of a catch you are from an OLD profile. You certainly can’t say what a great father you are and how much you make, and all do that stuff. You’ll come off stuck up and full of yourself. The only way someone can get to know this stuff is by dating you.
Now how to get a date? Being above average in looks helps. For sure. But there a bunch of 6ft tall above average looks guys online. So what does your profile read? What stands out? Do you say the same thing as others? My profile is a spoof on what guys write. This is what mine reads currently:
“Don’t worry guys, I already know you love to laugh, hate drama and like good vibes only!” Your kids are your number one priority ( I sure hope so) and let me guess, you are not vanilla!”
Like every single guy has one, if not all of these in their profile. They don’t stand out. Women aren’t as visual as men. We read and look and something needs to pique our interest.
So what does your profile say? What stands out ? Why would someone want to date you from that small glimpse of yourself ?
Very true. My health, two great kids, good friends, a good career & finances...etc. There are a whole lot of positives.
That's all you need brother. The cherry on top will come you just have to be patient.
inevitably if I see an attractive single mother profile that I could see as promising I won't even hear back. Not sure if they're no longer on the platform or if I think higher of myself than I'm actually worth lol.
Studies show consistently that people in OLD contact people who are "out of their league" in looks, men do it more than women but both sexes do so. So a couple of options:
Consider contacting women who are one step down from who you're contacting now in looks. Some of them may surprise you and be more attractive in real life than their photos would suggest.
It's a numbers game - you do have to contact a lot of women. Just don't do so with a generic hello that shows you didn't read their profile.
Try Bumble, where the women contact the men? (Isn't that how Bumble works?)
Look for more opportunities to meet people IRL.
i think i read the other day that 80% of the women chase the top 20% of the men with OLD and with the other percentages quoted here means you have to be super sharp in the photo and words!
i think i read the other day that 80% of the women chase the top 20% of the men with OLD and with the other percentages quoted here means you have to be super sharp in the photo and words!
Yep. Think of your profile like your resume.
i think i read the other day that 80% of the women chase the top 20% of the men with OLD
I don't know where those statistics come from, but in the studies I've read it was even worse the other direction - men all seeking the hottest women (and I can vouch for the disparity, having been contacted by several guys who look like Santa Claus).
Try standing out and upping your photo game. 2 selfies aren’t going to do it, unfortunately .
A great conversation starter and the part that gets my attention is the “two truths and a lie” if they are interesting, I’ll open up the conversation with my guess .
You have to pull them in with something, and being a above average looking dad isn’t going to do it on the OLD world
I always liked it when a guy sent a message referencing something in my profile - showing he had read it. (A comment on my musical tastes, perhaps, or a question about my drumming, or a book recommendation).
No bathroom selfies.
I like to see at least one photo of a guy with friends or coworkers - makes it more likely they HAVE friends, better yet if you all look like you're having fun.
Any women in your photo should be identified - "Me and my sister" or some such - otherwise we will assume you are posting a photo of yourself and a previous girlfriend or worse yet, your ex-wife.
No photos with the exGF or exW obviously cropped out.
A photo doing some activity you enjoy is nice.
Please, please - no photo of you in a bathrobe holding a live duck (seriously - I didn't even want to know what that guy was about.)
Hey BL
Good to hear an update and that you're mostly doing pretty well. I am in a similar spot with the feeling of slight regression, I think its pretty normal. There will always be ups and downs in motivation, go easy in yourself during the downs, take a mental and physical break for a little bit and then back into things when you're ready. Some good advice I heard somewhere is to have your reasons written down as to why things are important to you. For example, I go to the gym and stay fit because I can think of nothing better than being able to kick the footy and shoot some hoops with my little boy when he is a bit older, that drives that part of my life. Have those reasons written down for everything that you need to push yourself to do and those things become easier.
From what you've described BL and from knowing you on here you are a catch. So you should think of yourself that way. I'm no expert on OLD as you know, but I'm sure when you get to those first dates you'll do very well. Have you tried chatting to people more when you're out and about?
Ginger1,
And you are right, it is not sustainable to bend over backwards to prove to your kids your love. I understand why you felt the need for a while, but it’s not a realistic or a long term way of parenting.
I'm coming to realize that. Part of the motivation is admittedly guilt over the situation the kids are facing (even if it wasn't my choice), and part of it is the sense of loss over half my kids' life so I'm trying to make up any time with them I can which my virtual/flexible career facilitates (off Fridays, before/after school...etc.). Also a factor is their age. Being young they have a lot more free time whereas as they get older they'll have more activities and friends which parents aren't included, so I want to make the most of it now. I won't always be coaching my son's sports and even next school year D3 will be 4 and in a longer day program so pick ups during the week and spending off Fridays with her won't be a thing, so that'll give me some relief. The current rate is wonderful from the parent/child bonding sense and being a great day, but not sustainable for the long term.
As far as your firing on all cylinders with work, GAL, school, gym, kids….. also not sustainable!
Life needs to be sustainable. You are burning out and it’s OK to chill!
Yeah. I think I kicked it into overdrive based on the adrenal of BD and and coming back down. I do need to recommit to the gym routine and take some more time for myself and relax a bit.
As far as dating. Let me put some things in perspective for you with OLD. You obviously are able to say you are a good catch and why you are a good catch and it makes total sense to you because you know you. And OLD profile is a small blurb and view of you. No one can possibly know how good of a catch you are from an OLD profile.
[quote=Ginger1]So what does your profile say? What stands out ? Why would someone want to date you from that small glimpse of yourself ?
Great feedback on the woman's perspective. I probably need to up my profile game.
kml,
Consider contacting women who are one step down from who you're contacting now in looks. Some of them may surprise you and be more attractive in real life than their photos would suggest.
I've expanded my outreach a bit. Not a whole lot more luck. Honestly I think my area is not the best for 40 with kids.
It's a numbers game - you do have to contact a lot of women. Just don't do so with a generic hello that shows you didn't read their profile.
I've tried to be tailored and unique, but it's tough sometimes when there's not a lot to go on, and also gets draining after swiping so much without result.
Try Bumble, where the women contact the men? (Isn't that how Bumble works?)
I joined Tinder, Match, Bumble, Hinge, and now FB dating. Tinder seems awful, strewn with fake and trashy profiles. Match is a bit better but not nearly the number of profiles. Bumble and Hinge seem to be the classiest/best options. FB Dating is frustrating because despite setting my range close and as a strong preference I still get profiles popping up from several different states.
Look for more opportunities to meet people IRL.
This is absolutely an area on which I should focus. I've done a lot of GAL but it's mostly been male-only leagues or hanging with coupled friends. I should probably try out some activities with a more balanced or female-leaning interest.
I can vouch for the disparity, having been contacted by several guys who look like Santa Claus
But consider the Christmas presents!
i think i read the other day that 80% of the women chase the top 20% of the men with OLD and with the other percentages quoted here means you have to be super sharp in the photo and words!
Yep. Think of your profile like your resume.
Point taken guys. I need to sharpen up my profile, photos and description.
Try standing out and upping your photo game. 2 selfies aren’t going to do it, unfortunately.
I realized while signing creating OLD profiles I literally had no pictures of just me in the past decade. My photo roll is almost exclusively my kids, family, ExW, or a big group of friends. So I took a few selfies in the past 6 months and two of them are actually looking pretty good - no bathroom or gym or anything. I do have one of me scuba diving which I thought was pretty cool and may generate some discussion. But I agree, time to up my photo game. I thought about hiring a photographer friend to take a couple shots but not sure if that's "too much". I just rarely have pictures taken of me.
I like to see at least one photo of a guy with friends or coworkers - makes it more likely they HAVE friends, better yet if you all look like you're having fun.
I've avoided including other people. Don't want to be posting their pics on OLD profiles.
A photo doing some activity you enjoy is nice.
I have a few of scuba diving. Need to get some of doing activities golf, ice skating...etc. I guess I need to be better about having friends take pictures of me, but it seems a bit awkward.
A great conversation starter and the part that gets my attention is the “two truths and a lie” if they are interesting, I’ll open up the conversation with my guess.
I've seen those on others. Maybe I'll try it.
You have to pull them in with something, and being a above average looking dad isn’t going to do it on the OLD world
Getting the hard truths here on the board! LOL. Good feedback though, thanks.
OnlyBent,
I am in a similar spot with the feeling of slight regression, I think its pretty normal. There will always be ups and downs in motivation, go easy in yourself during the downs, take a mental and physical break for a little bit and then back into things when you're ready.
You're right. Just in a bit of a lull right now, but I'll rebound. We've both made quite a lot of progress over the past year or two so to use an investing analogy focus on the long term trend not the short term fluctuations.
Some good advice I heard somewhere is to have your reasons written down as to why things are important to you. For example, I go to the gym and stay fit because I can think of nothing better than being able to kick the footy and shoot some hoops with my little boy when he is a bit older, that drives that part of my life. Have those reasons written down for everything that you need to push yourself to do and those things become easier.
Love that concept, and especially the motivation of being around for and active with our sons down the road.
From what you've described BL and from knowing you on here you are a catch. So you should think of yourself that way. I'm no expert on OLD as you know, but I'm sure when you get to those first dates you'll do very well.
Thanks OB!
Have you tried chatting to people more when you're out and about?
I need to put myself in better positions to interact with people. I'm either cramped up at the home office or having out fun with the guys, but need to consider some activities with a more balanced demographic. Hopefully with things opening back up from the pandemic and seasons opportunities will present themselves.
Please, please - no photo of you in a bathrobe holding a live duck (seriously - I didn't even want to know what that guy was about.)
that made me laugh and set my mind racing with the possibilities!!
Hiya BL42,
Just wanted to stop by and say hi, and thank you for checking out my post.
I've only had a chance to take an ever-so-brief glance at your sitch from the beginning, but the small bit I did read, made me curious to ask.....
Does any of
this strike a chord with you, with respect to the way your XW acts/acted?
I like to see at least one photo of a guy with friends or coworkers - makes it more likely they HAVE friends, better yet if you all look like you're having fun.
I've avoided including other people. Don't want to be posting their pics on OLD profiles.
While I agree with most of what kml said about photos and the rest, I disagree with her on the group photo. I realize this is a personal preference so there is no right or wrong answer and I even understand the reason she says she likes to see them, but I don’t like them. I’m going to assume a person has friends and coworkers. My problem with group pics is that they are seldom labeled as to who is in them so unless it is extremely obvious which one you are, I don’t want to play a guessing game. I think this is one of the reasons OLD can be so difficult. Everyone’s preferences are different so you just have to ride the middle and hope for the best.
A photo doing some activity you enjoy is nice.
I have a few of scuba diving. Need to get some of doing activities golf, ice skating...etc. I guess I need to be better about having friends take pictures of me, but it seems a bit awkward.
Activity pics are good but yes, it can be awkward to stop and go “hey, take my pic!”…especially for a man, I’d guess, since women are more prone to pics. I had a couple of go-to friends who were in on my OLD plight and if we were out together, I’d ask them to snap a good pic of me.
Definitely don’t hire a photographer. When I see those, I think they are cat fishers.
I’m a woman who tried to avoid the camera. It’s an oddity. I can’t stand the way I look in pictures and I have some weird nervousness in front of the camera.the good thing is I look a lot better than person than in a photo, so dates I think are pleasantly surprised, lol. I do have selfies. I looked good before going out, snapped that picture. I took a selfie when I went hiking by a waterfall. I had my daughter take a picture of me at a hockey game. And I absolutely have a full body shot in a dress. I’m the same weight, so I use it because it’s the only one I have. Also, don’t use blurry pictures.
Yes, meeting people out in the wild is ideal. But you don’t do that unless you put yourself out there. I am joined to a statewide facebook singles group. The age range is like 30-60. They do a lot of meet ups. Unfortunately most are in the lower part of my state.
Many couples have come of that group. And it just gets you out there. They do fun activities. Ace throwing, hikes, top golf, beach walks, happy hours, karaokes and sometimes they rent out a place and host an event
If I’m not mistaken, you are either in the lower half of my state or right outside of it?
Ditto G on the full body and no blurry pics! I have said many times here, I am a big girl, so when i was OLD, I made sure that I had full body shots where you could tell. Now, I don't want to see full body shots in various forms of undress (at least not at first, LOL), but a tasteful, full body shot definitely shows the realistic version of you. I know I have said this before, but I have a selfie that I took of myself sitting in my car in my driveway and it makes me look WAY prettier than I actually am. Now, I have that selfie on my phone and I have shared it with friends and family, but I would've never shown it to a potential date because then when they saw me in person, they would think I was a catfish. Sparky has seen it, but he didn't see it until long after we were committed to each other. I didn't do any camera trick either....I just had the camera angled right and the sun was coming through the car window just right to make for a very attractive pic, but it was a total fluke.
When I was OLD, I would actually move right on past blurry pics because it screamed lack of effort to me. Oh and in case no one else has already mentioned it, I HATE sunglass pics. I don't mind a hat because all the men in my life wear ball caps all the time, but please don't cover up your eyes. Even if it is just an innocent outdoor pic, having fun in the sun, something seems disingenuous to me (and this is my own personal opinion that others may or may not agree with) when you post a pic wearing sunglasses when you could have just taken them off and snapped the same pic right quick.