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Posted By: bttrfly In the bubble - 12/07/21 03:54 AM
Been a while since I posted on a thread of my own. There's been a lot going on, mostly with my mother. She had a very difficult time of it from mid-October until recently, then caught a cold that was going around the facility post Thanksgiving. Unfortunately, it really did a number on her, developed into pneumonia and she passed early Saturday.

I'm ok. I feel like I'm in that bubble between before her death and whatever will be after the services on Wednesday. I only had two hours of sleep Saturday - got home around 4:30, slept from a little after 5 until 7 or so, then up until 9 or 10. Slept ok Saturday night and last night. Weird dreams. I guess that's to be expected.

So many of her caregivers have told me how much she meant to them. She was definitely a favorite. She was a tiny little person with a big and beautiful personality. I gave her one of her Christmas presents on Thursday, a pair of soft pajamas in her favorite pink. She was wearing the top when she passed. I was with her. Unlike with Dad, I hadn't fallen asleep. When it was time I told her not to worry about me or my son, that we were going to be fine, and Dad was waiting, so it was time to go. Two breaths later she was gone.

This has been a grueling week, but I was able to spend a lot of time with her. She rallied for about a day and a half and we were able to say a lot of things to each other, as well as just enjoy each other and tell each other how much we loved each other. I'm very, very, very blessed and extremely grateful. On Tuesday night I started to get sick with her cold, but I stayed home on Wednesday and did some serious self care with vitamins, immune-boosting herbs, hot epsom salts baths with essential oils, bone broth soup (made it for mom and had some for me too), and a lot of fluids and sleep. Woke up 5am Thursday feeling better than I have in months. No, Mom did not have covid - she tested negative. Problem is her CHF really made it difficult for her to heal from the cold. My poor little Momma. I will miss her terribly, but I'm so glad her suffering is over. I was so lucky to have her. No regrets. That's a gift.

Yesterday and today busy with funeral arrangements, plus work - there were some things, like payroll, that had to be done. I'm off for the next three days for Bereavement leave. I need to focus on my family.

Son has been included as much as I can, but the bulk of this is on my shoulders. I felt that it was important to call the people who meant most to my mother, so I've spent all weekend on the phone. Only one ugly call with one cousin who started her negativity. I cut that off at the knees - "I really don't have time for this right now. I have a lot of calls to make." Kml - not the cousin you'd expect. She's actually been fine.

My ex-bil was called tonight at my son's request. He also started his crazy talk (he's def. "out there"), and I told him now wasn't the time. He didn't like that I refused to be monologed at so he hung up on me then proceeded to text me how I'd reminded him of his mother, said he was sorry my mom passed and he was available if I needed or wanted to talk. I texted back, "Nope, I'm all set, thanks" He said, "That's why I hung up." I said, "Exactly" He will be 49 in a few weeks. Guess the crazy still runs true in that family. Wish I could expunge those genes from my son. He texted back something about not wanting some argument to come between us. Give me a break, I'm so done with all of it. I'm relieved this happened actually, because I really don't want to continue this relationship any longer. I've done what I can to help him, way more than my exh has, but my mom was right when she told me that my problem is that I'm trying to save the world and it's not my job. I'm not interested in helping anyone who can't, won't or isn't capable of helping themselves any longer. It takes too much energy.

I scored a pink, light blue and yellow paisley tie for $9.99 at Marshall's for my son. There was a men's store three doors down that was selling ties for between $55-70, with a bogo free deal which I resisted. I've asked people to wear something pink to the service in honor of my mom, since she loved that color so much.

I have a bunch of photos on a flash drive to drop off with our funeral director tomorrow afternoon, and still have to finish the eulogy and clean the house. We're not doing a meal after the service. Covid is spiking here, but really I'm just too tired to deal with it now. I'd rather have a bbq next summer and have a celebration of her life with hopefully less Covidy times so everyone can feel comfortable together. The whole family is in complete agreement.

I must say that I've felt incredibly loved and supported by my cousins throughout this last week and a half. We've got a private thread going on IM as well as phone calls and texts to check on both me and my son. I'm also extremely grateful for my friends who have checked on me, sat with me and mom, baby sat me yesterday so I could stay on point with all the stuff I needed to do, etc. I'm really lucky, I know it and I don't take it for granted, not even a little bit.

Mom said, "Life is short. You need to LIVE." this, from a 95 year old. Worth listening to. Advice worth taking to heart.
Posted By: DnJ Re: In the bubble - 12/07/21 12:37 PM
Good Morning bttrfly

(((Hugs)))

My deepest condolences to you and your’s.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
When it was time I told her not to worry about me or my son, that we were going to be fine, and Dad was waiting, so it was time to go. Two breaths later she was gone.

That is beautiful.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
…I was able to spend a lot of time with her. She rallied for about a day and a half and we were able to say a lot of things to each other, as well as just enjoy each other and tell each other how much we loved each other. I'm very, very, very blessed and extremely grateful.

Most wonderful. Getting to talk to your Mom.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
Mom said, "Life is short. You need to LIVE." this, from a 95 year old. Worth listening to. Advice worth taking to heart.

A wise soul.


Love

D
Posted By: Eagle3 Re: In the bubble - 12/07/21 01:37 PM
Good afternoon Butterfly,

My sincere condolences on the passing of your beloved mother.

In heart and thoughts
Today and forever

Her light shines
Until eternity

Lots of strength,

Eagle
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: In the bubble - 12/07/21 02:03 PM
Love and hugs, bttrfly! I'm so sorry for your loss, but hope you find peace in knowing your mom and dad are reunited and comfort in your memories. I will wear pink tomorrow, in honor of your beloved mother and the amazing, strong daughter she gifted this world. (((bttrfly)))
Posted By: LH19 Re: In the bubble - 12/07/21 02:05 PM
I am truly sorry and offer you my condolences on the passing of your mother.
Posted By: kml Re: In the bubble - 12/07/21 02:34 PM
I’m so sorry bttrfly , but glad you were able to be there with her when she passed. She had a long and good life. And she’s right! Life is short and we should get out there and live!

I’ll look for something pink to wear today in honor of your mom.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: In the bubble - 12/07/21 03:06 PM
{{{bttrfly}}}
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: In the bubble - 12/07/21 03:27 PM
I’m so sorry for you loss. You are an incredible daughter and it sounds like you had some very special moments with mom. I know it’s hard to have it all on your shoulders, but I’m glad you cousins are being supportive. Much love and hugs
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/07/21 04:05 PM
I woke up prickly and angry ... perhaps another stage of this process, who knows? After venting and fuming and ruminating - ok, fretting - I've come to a conclusion. Since BD I diligently worked to keep a bridge between exh's family and myself/son, not because I wanted to keep these people in my life, but because at 15.5 with his world blown apart I wanted to offer any means of stability to my boy. I knew that exh was on his MLCr odyssey and too self-absorbed to care. Half the time he wouldn't even show up for holidays. Too busy either working if he was in town or probably glamming it up with 2.0/Microsoft Vista. I think they spent one Christmas in either Scotland or Paris. No concern for what this meant to our son, who looked forward to having his extended family all together at our home every holiday.

I continued to extend invitations to ex-in-laws, and in fact was thanked many, many times by ex MIL for taking ex BIL off her hands by including him for five years beyond BD. The invites stopped in 2019 when my mom was in rehab for her broken leg and son and I opted to spend that Thanksgiving and Christmas with my side of the family.

Anyway, my point is this - mom gave me very specific marching orders, and she is absolutely right, a usual. My son is now 22. The relationships with his father's side are his to cultivate or release. Not my farm. Not my pigs. I more that did my due diligence to keep a bridge alive for my son to cross or blow up, or something in between. I'm done.

Mom asked my how I was going to spend the rest of my life. Don't have any real answer to that other than I know which relationships I'm ready to let go of, and certainly most of ex-inlaws are on that list, along with fully caffeinated cups of coffee as I now have the shakes.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: In the bubble - 12/07/21 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by bttrfly
Mom asked my how I was going to spend the rest of my life. Don't have any real answer to that other than I know which relationships I'm ready to let go of, and certainly most of ex-inlaws are on that list, along with fully caffeinated cups of coffee as I now have the shakes.
You have a lot to process my dear friend. Take your time. So much that you've put on hold opens before you and letting go of what has been holding you back is only part of it.

Given how deeply you "feel" - don't be too surprised at physical manifestations of all the things playing out. Take care of yourself. Eat healthy. Tea is always good although I've always had a hard time finding a good cuppa south of the border.
Posted By: kml Re: In the bubble - 12/07/21 07:27 PM
You've got a lot of natural adrenaline right now, that's why you don't tolerate the extra caffeine.

As for son - yes, he's old enough to manage his relationship with his father's family on his own. You might just remind him to contact them if he wants to see them.

As for your future plans - I sit down at the beginning of most New Years (sometimes not until a week later) with a nice fancy notebook, and write down goals for my future. Some are defined (lose ten pounds and go to the gym twice a week,) some are loose (increase my income, get more sleep, see friends more) some are grand ( travel to X country, play drums at a particular local venue). But the act of writing down things makes them concrete and it's interesting how often they come to be even if I didn't invest a lot in getting there. Sometimes I do this with a friend, sometimes by myself. Just the act of thinking about what I would like to manifest in my life is helpful.
Posted By: job Re: In the bubble - 12/07/21 09:09 PM
I am so sorry to come here this afternoon and read that your mother has passed away. What you told her about your father waiting for her was beautiful. My condolences to you and your family on your loss. Take all the time you need to grieve.

We are here for you and your family.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/08/21 11:11 AM
D, Eagle, Dawn, Kml, Super G, LH, Andrew and Job - thank you so very much for your kind words, support and love. I wasn't going to post, but so much of what she wants for me in a aftermath of her passing has to do with moving forward from this divorce, that I felt maybe it would be ok to share here. I've stepped really far back from here, in part to focus on other things.

I miss my mom. I'm giving the eulogy and right now I'm not sure I can. But I know that I will suck it up, put on my big girl panties, straighten my crown and remember whose daughter I am when the time comes.

I feel like I'm getting a cold. Stress, I'm sure. Back to my kick-germs-to-the-curb regimen.

Everything is finished. I wrote the eulogy last night. Practiced it. I'm a minute and a half over the allotted 5 minutes. They are going to have to deal. 95 years is a lot of ground to cover and my little momma had a big and beautiful personality. She deserves respect and honor and an extra 90 seconds isn't going to make that big a difference. I read it to my best friend from high school, who is doing a reading at the service. She said it captured Mom well, and too bad if it's 90 seconds over.

I feel the need to be free from a lot of things. At the urging of someone whose opinion I greatly respect, I sent exh a simple text, 'thought you'd like to know mom passed' with a copy of the obit. He's not mentioned. He was mentioned in Dad's. Son wanted him taken out, so I did. Son was supposed to call exh, but didn't. I waited until there was no way he could come here, on the off chance that he would do what he did with my father's - fly in, pick my son up and instead of bringing him to the funeral home, taking him "out to breakfast" - they showed up well into the viewing hour, and he left before the church service. Son never saw my dad, because I'd closed the casket - Daddy did not look like himself, and I wanted people to remember him as he was. Son regrets not seeing him. Look, I'll give him props for showing up. He took the only flight he could get and apparently the only flight out meant he couldn't stay. That's ok. People do the best they can. But I'm not looking for a repeat here.


ok. i'm going to go get ready. thank you all again. It means a lot.
Posted By: DnJ Re: In the bubble - 12/08/21 01:03 PM
Thinking about you today.

bttrfly, I’m sure it’s a wonderful eulogy and equally sure you will do fine. And yes, run over limit.

(((Hugs)))
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: In the bubble - 12/08/21 01:59 PM
My thoughts and prayers are with you today. I'm sure your eulogy is a beautiful tribute to your mom and if anyone says anything about it being over, well, they can step off. Honoring someone's memory doesn't have a time frame! I'm wearing my floral shades of pink reading glasses today in honor of your mom. I obviously never met her, but somehow I still think they fit what she would like. (((((((bttrfly)))))))
Posted By: kml Re: In the bubble - 12/08/21 03:07 PM
Good move on ex. You don’t need the added stress of him there.

(((((Love)))))
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/09/21 02:43 PM
ty D, Dawn and Kml. Beautiful service. I'm so proud of the way my son handled this. I've taken today and tomorrow off. I need a break.

Exh sent a brief text and bought some flowers through the tribute website. They were not delivered in time, maybe today. Don't know. Anyway, that's done. None of the ex-in-laws showed up, for which I think son and I were both grateful.

I have a lot to process.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: In the bubble - 12/09/21 03:04 PM
The tribute was absolutely beautiful. Xoxox
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/09/21 03:59 PM
thx G. It made me tear up when I saw it. Despite some of the difficulties we had when I was younger, there is so much love between us. I miss her.
Posted By: Traveler Re: In the bubble - 12/09/21 04:35 PM
Butterfly, my condolences. I'm so sorry about your mom's passing. smirk

I've followed your journey and am amazed how much you put into caring for her (while striving to preserve yourself). I'm glad you had final good moments together and were able to deliver your 90-seconds-over eulogy to remember her life to the people who cared, and without bothersome interference from your ex-husband or ex-inlaws. Take care today!
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/10/21 03:51 PM
thanks CW. She put forth that much effort and more for me when I was a tot; it was my turn to do the same for her (and Dad).

Exh did send a floral arrangement, per the tribute wall, which we never received. It has now disappeared from the tribute wall, along with his brief message. In that message he signed it using the long version of his name, which is how he always preferred to be called until MLC/BD. Then he abbreviated his name and everyone since then calls him by that name, including 2.0/Vista. Just strange, but maybe not. Son seems much more at ease not in communication with his father, which makes me sad, because that's not what I ever intended when I thought about having a child. I asked if he was going to the state his dad lives in for Christmas. His answer was a brief and decisive, "No" -- neutral voice, just not going to play. I will order his favorite roast for Christmas dinner, now that I know he's staying here.

After making a bunch of calls yesterday to manage my own affairs (for once), I ran errands including getting groceries and a tree. I'm now breaking down the living room so I can re-arrange it to accommodate said tree, which son and I will set up over the weekend. Odd things -- when Dad passed I lost my wallet and shoes multiple times a day. Talk about feeling completely ungrounded. Now it's this pain in my chest which is intermittent and alleviated by burning frankincense and myrrh incense or drinking passionflower tea - grief and anxiety. Didn't sleep well last two nights at all. Made an appointment to get the dog groomed that conflicted with a doctor's appointment I need to take my son to, so dog gets pushed off yet again. Went to buy a new broom this morning. Halfway to the store I realized I was still in my fluffy pj's. I'm just not mentally here. I keep smelling mom's perfume at odd times.

talk on other threads has me wondering about relationships for me moving forward. I really question my ability to partner with anyone. I'm thinking back to certain things from my marriage, and how I handled certain situations versus how I would handle those same situations now. Maybe when my chest feels empty isn't the time to contemplate my ability to maintain a healthy relationship with another.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: In the bubble - 12/10/21 04:11 PM
(((((bttrfly))))) Oh sweet lady, my heart hurts for you as you deal with your grief and loss. I hope you and your son somehow manage to find some peace in the coming days and maybe, hopefully, even a bit of joy from happy memories of both of your beloved parents. I can't even imagine the pain you both feel right now, but I'm so glad you have each other to lean on.

I think your last paragraph is spot on accurate! You have to take care of you and just deal with your grief for now before you can worry about being a partner for someone else. Grieve on YOUR timeline, not anyone else's. Grieve in your own way, not anyone else's. Feel what you need to feel. But, most importantly take care of yourself and allow yourself whatever time you need to deal with everything going on.

You are an amazing woman for sure. After all, you were raised by an amazing woman so it stands to reason that the apple didn't fall far from the tree. wink Hugs, love, and light coming your way (and your son's way) from down south.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: In the bubble - 12/10/21 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by bttrfly
Went to buy a new broom this morning. Halfway to the store I realized I was still in my fluffy pj's. I'm just not mentally here. I keep smelling mom's perfume at odd times.
It will pass my friend. Your brain and body are both grieving and also dealing with a removal of some long term stresses. Not that your Mom wasn't a wonderful person, but caring for her and dealing with all the related stuff and relatives undoubtedly kept you under tension.

And fluffy PJs can be quite fetching not to mention appropriate for the season ...

{{{bttrfly}}}
Posted By: kml Re: In the bubble - 12/10/21 07:10 PM
Girlfriend - don’t judge your abilities in a future relationship by your past relationship with a narcissist who was gaslighting you, okay? You have ALL the skills necessary to be in a healthy relationship with a healthy person.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/11/21 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by kml
Girlfriend - don’t judge your abilities in a future relationship by your past relationship with a narcissist who was gaslighting you, okay? You have ALL the skills necessary to be in a healthy relationship with a healthy person.
thanks K ... just not sure it's worth the effort, at least not right now.
Originally Posted by AndrewP
And fluffy PJs can be quite fetching not to mention appropriate for the season ...

{{{bttrfly}}}
they were light aqua with white snowflakes, so very appropriate.

Originally Posted by Dawn70
I think your last paragraph is spot on accurate! You have to take care of you and just deal with your grief for now before you can worry about being a partner for someone else. Grieve on YOUR timeline, not anyone else's. Grieve in your own way, not anyone else's. Feel what you need to feel. But, most importantly take care of yourself and allow yourself whatever time you need to deal with everything going on.

that's the truth, right? this is the step before, this grieving process.
Posted By: DnJ Re: In the bubble - 12/11/21 04:05 PM
Good Morning bttrfly

How is the organizing coming along?

Originally Posted by bttrfly
Exh sent a brief text and bought some flowers through the tribute website. They were not delivered in time, maybe today. Don't know.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
Exh did send a floral arrangement, per the tribute wall, which we never received. It has now disappeared from the tribute wall, along with his brief message.

I suspect Exh cancelled it after he learned about the obituary. You cannot stop Exh’s pettiness.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
In that message he signed it using the long version of his name, which is how he always preferred to be called until MLC/BD. Then he abbreviated his name and everyone since then calls him by that name, including 2.0/Vista. Just strange, but maybe not.

The passing of your Mom will have an affect on Exh. His mind and emotions will have stirred old times. He, like all of us during times like these, would have been somewhat teleported back to those past times. It is not so strange that he would sign his name as he (and everyone) referred to him back then.

Post MLC/BD Exh is the guy that utilizes the shorter monicker. And yes, using his full name is noticeable. And will most likely be short-lived. MLC Exh is the guy who probably removed the message. Just imagine the confusion (and now guilt) rattling around in his mind.

And, for what it’s worth, Vista probably had a hand in the messages disappearance as well. I can well envision Exh making a comment, even just a passing one, about this to her, which would have not went over well. She’s one unstable gal. And given her and his history she doesn’t have much faith nor trust in him or herself.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
Son seems much more at ease not in communication with his father, which makes me sad, because that's not what I ever intended when I thought about having a child.

(((Hugs)))

I do empathize. My previous dream and hope for my kids lives is not the path we are currently on.

Something to consider my friend, why are you sad at your son’s being at ease?

Remove Dad from the equation for the moment. Son is much more at ease. Whatever the situation, he is more at ease and at peace. That is a wonderful thing! Cherish it. Foster it. Encourage it. Gently! Always gently.

And that encouragement, from my experience, comes more from accepting our kid’s decisions and journey. You can encourage better when you are walking beside someone.

Placing Exh back into the equation changes little. Son is much more at ease. Let go the past dream and foster the new one! That is for you my dear friend. Son and you have fantastic lives and futures ahead of you. Live them!

I realize the strength and force of my encouraging from the heart words. Grief is an interesting time. During times of loss, especially deep loss, we grieve and gain a temporary almost direct access to ourselves, to our deep core self. Among the pain and sorrow, is a golden opportunity to alter or craft one’s beliefs/values/direction. Consider letting go from being sad of son’s (and your) intended path, and strengthening the joy and gratefulness of the actual journey you are on (which I know you realize).

The pain in your chest will fade as the crack/break to your soul closes and heals. By far, most people do not make use of this time. You are much better in tune than most. It’s a difficult time, and hard-earned wisdom is hard-earned.

D
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/11/21 04:05 PM
took my debit card out to pay for something, then looked in the wallet to find it and gasped in dismay that it was gone ... except it was under my wallet. smh. I hope you guys find some humor in this, I know I find myself laughing at the absurdity of some of these gaffs
Posted By: kml Re: In the bubble - 12/11/21 04:38 PM
Like looking all over for your glasses when they’re on your head. Been there, done that!
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: In the bubble - 12/11/21 07:41 PM
You aren’t alone! I spent 15 minutes this morning looking for my phone….using the flashlight on my phone to help. Can’t make this stuff up!
Posted By: kml Re: In the bubble - 12/11/21 08:14 PM
Lolol!!!
Posted By: AndrewP Re: In the bubble - 12/11/21 08:27 PM
Like the old joke - you reach an age where you worry about the Here-After. I spend a bunch of time wandering around the house wondering "what am I here after?"
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/12/21 03:02 PM
keys. keep losing my keys. with dad it was wallet and shoes - totally ungrounded. with mom it seems to be security and freedom (which is weird). good grief.

keep having really bizarre dreams. Last night Dad and Mom both were in my dreams.
Posted By: kml Re: In the bubble - 12/12/21 06:03 PM
Was it a bizarre dream - or just a visitation?
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/12/21 08:26 PM
a bit of both. brought the bouquet of roses back to the gravesite this afternoon. I saved two to press and add to Mom's bible, but I don't want them here. They just remind me of her funeral, not her life. I ordered a flash drive of the video tribute. lost it at the grave, but the pain in my chest is lessened.

i'm binge watching Frasier, which is helpful at 1am. I'm on season 7. I'm grateful that people have reached out, but I'm keeping my voicemail 100% full. Don't want any more messages right now.

I'm really thinking a lot about what I want to do moving forward. Where do I want to live, where do I want to work, what kind of work do I want to do, etc. Feels a lot like it did post BD when I realized there was no stopping the D and I had to build a new life for myself.
Posted By: kml Re: In the bubble - 12/12/21 09:00 PM
Your future is wide open. But relax - no need to make any decisions right away. Ok to dream though. And if you plan a big move - consider just renting there for 6 months first before selling your place. Many people move places they later regret. Take your sweet time.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/12/21 09:21 PM
yes, not selling any property for at least a year. may make a job change, but that is the only major change for at least a year. I will def. get the re-fi going again. I don't want to make decisions from an emotional place, rather a logical one.
Posted By: OwnIt Re: In the bubble - 12/12/21 10:21 PM
bttrfly,

I'm so sorry to pop by and see this very sad news. Your lost keys make me remember my favorite poem on the subject of loss, One Art by Elizabeth Bishop. I won't quote it here in case it is too much for now. But most of us know the loss of our beloved parents and the pain of that loss. And most of know too that the pain of losing those who did not choose to leave us is much easier to bear than the other kind. Your reciprocated love for your mom was obvious and you do her an honor in the way you walk in the world.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/16/21 02:22 PM
Thank you Own. I looked up the poem. It's lovely, and thank you for that as well.

Been an up and down week. Mostly I'm ok, but still difficulty sleeping and difficult moments. I let them come, linger, and leave as they will, so the healing is going along.

One thing I'm not sure of - my mother is featured on our family Christmas card, currently being printed. I didn't want to take her photos out, but I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing. I think family and friends will enjoy having it as a keepsake of her, but is it weird? I don't know. I couldn't bear to re-do the card without her on it. Thoughts, people of the board?
Posted By: job Re: In the bubble - 12/16/21 02:27 PM
I would leave your mother in the photo on the Christmas card. It will mean a lot to people and they will cherish this particular card as it will be the last photo of your mom. Weird? No, I don't think so.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: In the bubble - 12/16/21 02:55 PM
I don't think it is weird at all. I think it is a lovely way to honor your mother's memory and friends and family who loved her will likely smile and have a pleasant memory or think of a funny story about her when they see it. At least, that would be how I would react, so I say it is best left as is. (((bttrfly))) You continue to be in my thoughts and prayers.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: In the bubble - 12/16/21 03:02 PM
I agree with the others on leaving her on the card. She'll never leave your heart or your memories of Christmas' past.

Glad you are working through the healing process and being kind to yourself {{{btrrfly}}} Wish I could send you a pound cake.
Posted By: DnJ Re: In the bubble - 12/16/21 03:26 PM
The Christmas card will be fine. The timing of her passing is understood and that pose is a wonderful tribute and memory to share.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/17/21 05:18 PM
TY Job, Dawn, Andrew and D - the cards arrived three days early, so I'm addressing them now and sending them off later this afternoon.

Really low frustration level today.
Posted By: Traveler Re: In the bubble - 12/17/21 05:24 PM
I love that you're leaving her on the card, and am glad it's a low frustration day!

Rock on.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: In the bubble - 12/17/21 07:27 PM
I hope this comes across with the spirit it is intended. I think the card is beautiful. Though I never met your mom, the card made me smile and think of all the stories she could tell and family will tell about her when they see it. She had quite a twinkle in her eye. I’m SO glad you posted a pic of it…made my day to see it and know it will be a blessing to those who receive it. (((Bttrfly)))
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/17/21 09:42 PM
ty CW. Let me clarify, low frustration = my limits are low, meaning i'm quick on the draw today. not patient when having to explain the same thing to someone over and over and over again - for ex, had a really difficult phone call where I asked someone to email me something that their company has provided routinely, but she focused on a minute issue that was irrelevant and could NOT move off of that point until I finally lost my temper and asked for the guy I usually deal with. She got snippy and I really lost my temper. Not good.

Dawn yes, thank you for your very sweet post. She definitely had a beautiful smile and loved to tell stories. She also dearly loved her family, extended family and friends. Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. You just never really know how something will be received.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/17/21 09:43 PM
at least i took advantage of the 57 degree weather to winterize my deck furniture. I'm in need of sleep.
Posted By: DnJ Re: In the bubble - 12/18/21 12:20 AM
Originally Posted by bttrfly
Really low frustration level today.


Glad you clarified. I was going to make some smart a$$ remark about lending you some of my frustrations. Lol
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: In the bubble - 12/18/21 03:13 AM
I love that card
Posted By: Eagle3 Re: In the bubble - 12/21/21 09:18 AM
Originally Posted by bttrfly
So many of her caregivers have told me how much she meant to them. She was definitely a favorite. She was a tiny little person with a big and beautiful personality. I gave her one of her Christmas presents on Thursday, a pair of soft pajamas in her favorite pink. She was wearing the top when she passed. I was with her. Unlike with Dad, I hadn't fallen asleep. When it was time I told her not to worry about me or my son, that we were going to be fine, and Dad was waiting, so it was time to go. Two breaths later she was gone.

My sincere apologies for not replying sooner to you Bttrfly. I had to catch up on some of the threads so I only read it today. Very sorry for the loss of you dear mother. I particularly liked what you wrote above. She must have been a wonderful and loving person. Good to read she passed away in peace.

So nice you left her picture on the Christmas card. A nice memory for the people who received it.

Big hugs to you and your son. xxx
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/21/21 01:38 PM
thank you Eagle. She was complex, but in the end she exuded love, light, joy in the simple things, kindness.

We miss her.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/21/21 02:09 PM
so two days ago our local gaggle of wild turkey hens showed up with a friend in tow - a little rooster! no idea where he came from or how he ended up with the turkey ladies. as soon as he noticed my set up he made a beeline for the run. He was so excited when the ladies were let out of their hen house. My girls are confined because we have a lot of predators. Tried to find the little boy's owners - consensus from local farm is that someone dumped him. He hasn't crowed at all, makes no sound at all. He wants desperately to be part of the flock. The ladies are curious but when we opened the door and he walked in he got his @$$ handed to him. My son had to rescue him. We should have taken that opportunity to put him in a dog crate but hindsight is 20/20.

He's survived two nights, but the local Cooper's hawk in ever watchful, and today a red tail joined the Cooper's in the watch. I'm trying to figure out what to do. There's a very old dog house in the back that I might bring up towards the coop so he'll at least have shelter at night. Right now he's roosting on the roof of the hen house. It's not safe because it's right under the tree frequented by the great horned owls who would love a chicken dinner.

Anyway, time is of the essence. I'm not sure what to do here. Any chicken peeps want to weigh in? I've called a sanctuary farm who haven't returned the call.

In other news, my son had a serious matter resolve favorably yesterday, to our great relief. It was an extremely anxiety provoking weekend. We were both exhausted and went to bed early last night. No news from ex as son has evidently talked to his dad at least once now since Mom's passing.

Happy Solstice, everyone! The light is balanced. Time to reflect and set your goals for 2022.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/21/21 05:50 PM
dog house not intact. got some help from my feed store friends. going to try to catch him.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/21/21 10:14 PM
girls in the coop for the night, little dude in the run YAY! he will be safe tonight.
Posted By: DnJ Re: In the bubble - 12/21/21 10:23 PM
Hi bttrfly

Nice to see you got him safe. Perhaps you got another mouth to feed. smile

D
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/21/21 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by DnJ
Hi bttrfly

Nice to see you got him safe. Perhaps you got another mouth to feed. smile

D
nope def want to re-home him.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/22/21 02:19 PM
adventures in chicken world. I made the boy a yummy (if you're a chicken) breakfast: warm oatmeal, organic apples and carrots, meal worms, and put it in his little dish outside the run, left the door open thinking maybe the little guy would go out. NOPE. he got as far away from the door as possible. It's so clear to me that this poor little soul just wants to be part of. As soon as the girls came out of the coop and noticed him, it was game on. Poor little guy. I had to go in and rescue him. Now he's outside, looking in, just on the outside of the fence. The girls interact with him when he's outside. I'm going to put the girls to bed tonight, let the little guy into the run again, only also try to let him into the coop. See what happens. I've been told that once he spends the night in a coop with the flock he will be more readily accepted.

So, why am I so obsessed with this lost little Roo? I think it's a distraction from Mom, and everything else I've got to deal with. I know that seems weird. I dunno. I'm having a really difficult time concentrating at work. I'm sleeping a bit better, which is good, but my daytime anxiety is often high. I'm managing it, but again, I feel very much a shadow of how I felt when exh BD'd ... whereas that threw me into such a state of shock that I couldn't eat, had to drink my meals for weeks, slept in 1/2 hour increments if I was lucky for months, this isn't as extreme, thankfully. I do have to take a major step back frequently during the work day, so my day is extended often so I can get enough hours in to complete tasks. This little Roo is a welcome distraction from the sadness, grief and overwhelm. I have a monumental task ahead of me in cleaning out 75 years of stuff over at Mom's so I can move forward, and I'm not ready to face that just yet.

Anyway, journaling here helps. I hope you guys don't mind. Feel free to ignore me. I won't be offended. I know there are others here also facing the grief of losing a loved one, and my heart goes out to you. You know who you are. {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}
Posted By: AndrewP Re: In the bubble - 12/22/21 02:47 PM
{{{btrrfl}}} - I don't always believe in it myself but there are times I believe that things happen for a reason.

This little guy suddenly appears and needs at least temporarily a Mom and family at Christmas. And you are giving him shelter and succor. A sign perhaps that the universe knows you have love to give.

Now we have to think up an at least temporary name for this wee guy. Joseph perhaps?
Posted By: kml Re: In the bubble - 12/22/21 02:55 PM
I think it’s the adrenaline. Results in that “wired and tired” feeling. I know I really need this upcoming 11 days off. I keep reminding myself to stop, breathe, stretch, and let the stress out.

Can you enlist a friend or helper to assist you when you go through your mom’s stuff? That’s a big job and it can be really hard emotionally to do. I helped my friend whose husband died a few years ago with a lot of it. She couldn’t have done it alone.

Since I know you need to rent her house out, one option is to just box up all her personal stuff and move it to your basement temporarily to be sorted through later, then bring in an estate sale agent or consignment shop to deal with the furnishings.

(((((Hug))))))
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/22/21 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by AndrewP
{{{btrrfl}}} - I don't always believe in it myself but there are times I believe that things happen for a reason.

This little guy suddenly appears and needs at least temporarily a Mom and family at Christmas. And you are giving him shelter and succor. A sign perhaps that the universe knows you have love to give.

Now we have to think up an at least temporary name for this wee guy. Joseph perhaps?
Odysseus
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/22/21 04:06 PM
Originally Posted by bttrfly
Originally Posted by AndrewP
{{{btrrfl}}} - I don't always believe in it myself but there are times I believe that things happen for a reason.

This little guy suddenly appears and needs at least temporarily a Mom and family at Christmas. And you are giving him shelter and succor. A sign perhaps that the universe knows you have love to give.

Now we have to think up an at least temporary name for this wee guy. Joseph perhaps?
Odysseus
because of his adventures ...
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/22/21 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by kml
I think it’s the adrenaline. Results in that “wired and tired” feeling. I know I really need this upcoming 11 days off. I keep reminding myself to stop, breathe, stretch, and let the stress out.

Can you enlist a friend or helper to assist you when you go through your mom’s stuff? That’s a big job and it can be really hard emotionally to do. I helped my friend whose husband died a few years ago with a lot of it. She couldn’t have done it alone.

Since I know you need to rent her house out, one option is to just box up all her personal stuff and move it to your basement temporarily to be sorted through later, then bring in an estate sale agent or consignment shop to deal with the furnishings.

(((((Hug))))))
Yes, definitely stopping, breathing, stretching etc. I keep getting up and wandering around.

I have two people who will help me and if my re-fi goes through a person I will hire who helped me with my family home when BD/separation happened.

Wow. Just flashed back to how horrible THAT was. . . followed immediately by the thought that if it happened today my response would be so much different --- exactly the opposite, in fact. talk about contentious. if it happened today my response would be eff you. this is my house. let's take it to the bitter end eff face. Wow. Not sure where that came from. yikes.
Posted By: kml Re: In the bubble - 12/22/21 05:22 PM
Yeah - I hear you. I agreed to the sale of our house very early on in the divorce process (we didn't finish the divorce until over a year later) because my ex wanted to buy the duplex he was renting. I knew I couldn't afford to keep the house, so I went along with it and moved in with my mom until I could buy my own house (which it turned out I couldn't do until I had proof of a year of alimony checks because I was self-employed - thank god the real estate market stayed down during that time). In retrospect that was very risky and I should have refused to sell until the divorce was entirely settled. But truthfully, I didn't want to live there with the ghosts of our marriage. It was hard on the kids though to see their family home sold out from under them so quickly.

My ex had to do a lot of the packing work though - I was out of town for the weekend with the guy I had started dating in northern California when he and some friends came in and packed things up. I'm glad I wasn't there for that and that he had to do some of the work. And since my mom's garage was the main storage place most things went to, I didn't end up with anything lost. Still, I'd had a long time to process before it got to that place since I'd been DBing him since his affair several years earlier. I can't imagine going through that much change early in the process.

I'll be using some of my time off to go through CMM's things - they've already been pre-thinned when he moved into my house and then again later when we gave up his storage unit. I'll start with my closet; the few boxes left in my garage are not a priority. My son and I did the pantry and fridge last weekend. But 75 years of accumulation is an entirely different thing. Thankfully my mom had already gone through her stuff when she moved in with me, so I didn't have too much to go through when she died either. ((((Hug))))
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/22/21 11:55 PM
thx K ... I know you know how hard this is. Putting it off til after the holidays makes the most sense to me, as I need some time and space to first process a Christmas without Mom before going through her things.

On the little guy front, he is now in the coop with the girls, all on roosts, although he's on the lower roost, but no one is giving him crap. Cautiously optimistic. Son says it's ok to name him. His name is Odysseus, Ody for short as we're sure he had a lot of adventures before coming here.
Posted By: DejaVu6 Re: In the bubble - 12/23/21 12:25 AM
Going through your parents' belongings following their passing is definitely not an easy thing. I was fortunate in that my brother and sister were there to lighten the load. We got it done in a weekend (my mom was uber organized) and for us, it was sad but also a nice walk down memory lane in some regards. We got to have some laughs at some of the mementos and pictures we encountered. Hopefully you will have some moments like that as well. Thinking of you... (((HUGS)))
Posted By: kml Re: In the bubble - 12/23/21 01:03 AM
Odysseus - and your hens are the Sirens I presume?
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/23/21 12:10 PM
Originally Posted by kml
Odysseus - and your hens are the Sirens I presume?
My hens are biatches. Just had to rescue the poor little guy. He's literally hen-pecked ... I despair of ever integrating him. frown
Posted By: DnJ Re: In the bubble - 12/23/21 03:06 PM
Good Morning bttrfly

Oh my. Poor Ody. He is a new stressful element into their safe stable known lives. Given time they should acclimate and accept. Until then, yes one needs to keep a look out for hen-pecking.

I seem to recall it took some time for your flock to stabilize. One of your hens was the “picked on” one for a while.

Do postpone cleaning out Mom’s house until after the holidays. I know you have plans and a deadline in mind. You will be ok. Be in the holiday, and leave the stuff for later, until later.

There is sure to be some trips down memory lane. Perfectly fine and normal. Temporarily boxing stuff up and storing it is fine.

Rejoice for those around you and remember those that are gone.

Be blessed my friend.

D
Posted By: AndrewP Re: In the bubble - 12/23/21 06:43 PM
Never had to deal with it before but some reading does indicate that introducing a new member to an established flock can indeed be some work as the "pecking order" needs to be established.

Learned something new today and I grew up around chickens.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/23/21 10:53 PM
got some good feedback and suggestions from my Chicken board people. He's definitely a Gold Laced Wyandotte, who are apparently stellar roosters. He's estimated to be 5 months old. He let me pick him up tonight and pet him (after dark, wrapped him in a soft blanket, cuddled him a bit before putting him in the coop. He's headed for his nest box away from the ladies. I will go out very very early to make sure he's ok.

His dog crate is now in the run. He will hang out there during the day, with the girls there also to get used to him. We'll see how it goes. He quietly chirped at me, which was sweet. If he cockadoodledoos I have to get rid of him frown
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/23/21 10:57 PM
Hit send too soon. Have also contacted two animal sanctuaries. Have not heard back yet.

I think it's so important to me to save him because I felt so powerless for so long in my care of my mother. Just like I've felt with my son's struggles. Just like I felt when my exh went off the deep end.

Rough day today but I got through it. Really missing Mom a lot. Didn't realize until I was on the phone with a good friend that today is also the 5th anniversary of my D being final. In the 5 years I've moved three times, built a house, cared for my dad through a traumatic injury or two, then lost him, cared for mom through two traumatic injuries, now have lost her, and have done my best to help my son through a life threatening illness. I'm tired.

Mom wanted to know what I was going to do after she left. The answer is rest, for now. Just rest. And grieve in a healthy way.
Posted By: DnJ Re: In the bubble - 12/24/21 03:46 PM
Merry Christmas bttrfly

Amidst the sadness and heartache, moments of joy will happen.
Love those you hold dear. Honour and cherish those love ones now gone.
May peace fill your soul, and blessed be the upcoming year.

Love
D
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/25/21 11:04 AM
Buon Natale peeps.
Posted By: kml Re: In the bubble - 12/25/21 02:23 PM
Merry Christmas, bttrfly!
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/26/21 08:31 PM
ty. my son gave me the best present: this morning he thanked me for giving him such a wonderful Christmas yesterday. He got quite a few presents but I think they totaled less than $100 - the most expensive was a first edition of Iron John. Dinner was prime rib, mashed potatoes, corn and broccoli with a mushroom rosemary gravy. We have apple pie and carrot cake for dessert but he didn't want any yesterday. I think what made Christmas so special for him was that we were together, and happy to be in each others' company. I let him do his own thing, which included playing video games for hours while I rested on the couch watching sappy Christmas movies. One thing I've always loved about my son is his complete lack of materialism. Since he was little, he's always appreciated that someone took the time to give him something, rather than putting a price tag on the gift. He's a rare kid. I'm blessed.

Now if the Pats would beat the Bills ...
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: In the bubble - 12/28/21 02:09 AM
I love this. Appreciation is always the best gift. And you are certainly a woman to appreciate.

I made prime rib and apple pie too! And it sounds like a nice peaceful relaxing holiday for you both
Posted By: 97Hope Re: In the bubble - 12/29/21 06:58 PM
((((Bttrfly))) so I found a Pats t-shirt at goodwill and am currently wearing it in solidarity with you.
: )

I, too, enjoyed sitting on the couch watching movies. Rest is good!!

Thanks for the encouragement, sound like your S got some of those sweet traits from you.

xo
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/30/21 08:16 PM
thanks Hope. Yeah, he's got traits from both of us, but the lack of pretension and materialism is def from my side of the gene pool.

Bet you rocked that Pats shirt!

So glad to be done with work for the YEAR!~ woot woot!!!
Posted By: Irish M Re: In the bubble - 12/30/21 09:09 PM
Merry Christmas Bttrfly

I understand the tired part very well.

2022 , hopefully we can get some rest and time to energize :-)

Take care
Hugs

Irish
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/30/21 10:29 PM
{{{{{Irish}}}}} how are you and the girls? How's the GF and her son? So good to "see" you my friend.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/31/21 01:41 PM
wishing everyone a safe, healthy and happy NYE, and many blessings to all in 2022
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 12/31/21 01:46 PM
In the interest of fairness I'm sharing information I just received. Unexpectedly my exh paid an open balance on an account of son's that was due in three weeks. Son would have been able to make the payment himself, but it would have been in weekly installments and created some creative juggling on his part to meet some other expenses. I'm torn because it was completely unexpected and shows me a glimpse of the man I married. On the other hand, it was important for son to take responsibility for this particular debt. Anyway, I'm staying out of it; son doesn't know yet.

Weird what they do at this time of year.
Posted By: kml Re: In the bubble - 12/31/21 02:30 PM
I have an old friend from these boards whose ex, every once in a while, coughs up some unexpected $ for her. I can’t even picture it, as my ex has been such a tightwad about helping our kids. Who knows what’s motivating your ex, but I’d never look a gift horse in the mouth.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 03:55 PM
posting this here rather than continuing to hijack BL's thread:
Originally Posted by LH19
Not judging BF just my opinion. Full detachment and forgiveness is hard. I don’t push it on myself. If it comes it comes if it doesn’t that’s ok too. The most precious thing for my kids and I is time spent together. This was taken from us with zero say in the matter. It’s something we can never get back. Was part of it my fault? Absolutely. But I was willing to do anything to fix it. For me it’s hard to forgive but I imagine I’ll get there some day. I just won’t force it.
Yes full detachment and forgiveness is hard, but I think it's also easy in the sense that if it's not forced, you'll suddenly realize one day that it's there and you won't know when it came or how long it had been lurking.

Full detachment and forgiveness is like grief. None of these are linear. None of them are "go big or go home" kinds of things. They come, they go. Sometimes they are more intense than other times; this is my experience anyway, and I can only speak for myself.

During the long separation and time leading up to my D being finalized I had angry moments but they were few and far between. Mostly I felt deep grief, loss and compassion, because my exh so obviously had lost his way. He was flailing about and striking out like an angry child, with me as his target. Did I do things to put that target on my back? Sure. Tell me, if you can, is there anyone in any relationship who doesn't drop the ball from time to time, whether it's parent, child, lover, spouse, friend, co-worker? We're human. We have flaws. We're messy and complicated and we have baggage. We all do our best and sometimes that's woefully inadequate to the situation at hand. This is not an excuse. When we fail, we need to man up, own it, take responsibility and figure out how to do better and then do that. Some of us can. Some cannot. Sometimes, sadly, we never get the chance. My value system was to keep my vow and be the best wife I could possibly be until our D was finalized. That's how I viewed standing. Maybe it was easier because I didn't know about the AP. I won't ever know for sure.

After the D, after one rotten thing piled upon another for so many months, my compassion turned to anger, bitterness, resentment. Watching my beautiful son struggle added to it. My asking his father for help and getting reviled added to it. Finding out about his AP added to it, but at the same time made it easier to detach.

My exh is responsible for healing the parts of his psyche which prevent him from showing up in any meaningful and consistent way for our son. We're all responsible for making sure the baggage we've collected in this life has minimal impact on those we love. We all have a past. The trick is making sure it doesn't negatively impact our present or our future. I believe - and this is just what I've seen in my life - if we focus on healing ourselves, not only do our lives get better, but so do the lives of the people closest to us.

I don't think I really know all that much about detachment, but I do know a very tiny bit about acceptance. My exh is who he is, the product of spectacularly dysfunctional parenting. Some wounds are so deep they may never heal. I have compassion for him. I don't have to live with the knowledge that I ran away. I don't have his baggage. Thank God I don't have his baggage. Thank God I've worked on my own enough to get it to a manageable, almost carry-on luggage size. Accepting this allows me to feel compassion once more for my exh. Meeting people where they truly are, rather than where we want them to be, is something worth striving for.

I think, maybe, forgiveness follows.
Posted By: LH19 Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 04:18 PM
So what does compassion for your husband look like?
Posted By: LH19 Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 04:34 PM
Sorry ex husband lol.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 05:05 PM
it looks like accepting that he's truly doing the best he can. it looks like choosing to suspend judging him - accepting that just like he has hazel eyes and is north of 6', he also is limited in how he feels safe interacting in the world and treating the people in his life.

sometimes that is a difficult thing for me to accept; other days, not so much.

just as love is an active choice, so too do I think maybe compassion is as well. and maybe even, letting go of anger, resentment and bitterness -- that's a potent cocktail we mix for someone else, but drink ourselves.

i'm still working this out LH. today my son is in a good place. if something happens to him precipitated by some action or inaction of his father's, i may lapse back. I don't think this is a linear path by any means.

any of this making sense to you? my auntie lois said that my exh was one of the most talented men she'd ever met, and also one of the most tortured because he had no gratitude for the many gifts he had in his life. she's not wrong. what a sad place to be. how can I not feel compassion for someone like this? all the money, all the 'toys', all the trips, all the external things can't fill the gaping hole inside. he's never satisfied or happy for more than 6 weeks, then it's off to the next thing. That included our beautiful son. Would you want to live like that? Can you imagine how uncomfortable that must be? When I'm in this mindset I pray that he finds the inner peace he's so desperately trying to fill with external things, and I pray for myself that I can stay in this place of fierce compassion.

Fierce compassion doesn't let the person off the hook for the terrible things they do or choices they make. Fierce compassion holds them accountable while acknowledging their limitations.
Posted By: LH19 Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 05:22 PM
So how do you let them off the hook and still hold them accountable?
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 05:27 PM
and realizing it's about them - not us. depersonalizing their attacks isn't easy, but really, how we treat others is a reflection of how we feel deep down about ourselves. this is most apparent in our most intimate relationships. Doesn't mean we have to have any respect at all for their choices (our exes or anyone else who hurts and/or betrays us). Compassion is separate from all that.

I also want to thank you, LH for this opportunity. I had a lot more to say which I deleted because it was about some deeply personal issues relating to my son. His story, not mine, not the proper medium. However, in writing that out and reading it over, I realized something I haven't been able to fully formulate before: I have a serious fear of getting close to a romantic partner because I have a fear of caring not only about him, but also his people - friends, family - and having the kind of interference and betrayal that I've already experienced. I haven't really dealt with that and I need to, so thanks for helping me realize it.

I get that people choose sides in a divorce, and frankly if I tally it up, I have way more people who choose me than exh, if you want to put it in that way, but the fact that our son's Godfather just cut out our son, and me, after decades of calling me family, saying I was the sister he never had, that my opinion meant so much to him, wow. still have to deal with how this hurts. This is a guy who wanted my opinion of the woman who later became his wife. Who said he valued my input so much and wanted to talk to me before going deeper into their relationship. Who felt really happy when we welcomed her into our family. Just like that, he never calls, or sends even a Christmas card at this point. I stopped years ago, because what's the point?

We had one conversation after I'd run into his Dad and found out his mom passed. His dad was very concerned about both my son and me post split and called my friend who only then reached out to me. We had a long talk. He again to me I was his family. I made it clear that I would never ask about exh or put him in the middle of anything. That was our last conversation. I've wished him happy birthday for three years in a row since then. Glaring silence. I'm not going into any cheeseless tunnels any longer.

Again, compassion - he too is doing the best he can. Makes me sad but wow, makes me also want to withdraw and not meet any potential relationship partner's people and I realize that when I think about dating I get overwhelmed very quickly when thinking about inevitably having to meet their friends and how damaging my exh's alleged friend was to our marriage (different guy, not our son's Godfather), and how hurt I still am by my son's Godfather not maintaining what had been an extremely important relationship with my son. Forget me - I get it and I'll deal with the hurt. But my son loved his Uncle (I'll call him Jason), they were always really close. And my son really needed a male figure. There was no need to cut my son out unless he was with his Dad on some rare trip to the west coast. Jay could have easily kept in touch with my son without me even knowing about it. I'm so disappointed by his limitations and it hurts a lot because I know how much it also hurts my son. That's for showing me another place where I need to bring fierce compassion to bear.

Maybe also bring it to myself as well.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 05:30 PM
You explained that so well, Bfly. We can have compassion and understand peoples limitations, but it doesn’t excuse what was done. I think what many have a hard time with is thinking if we have compassion for those who hurt us, that means we excuse what was done. I will never excuse what my ex and his wife did. But I can have compassion for them and not want them to fail at life or have bad things happen to them or get joy from their lives sucking . I can be around them and be thankful for myself when my ex takes constant jabs at his wife that it isn’t me anymore. But I’m the same breath I seem to go in and defend her. Go figure.

And nope, it’s no linear. Some days I still get so angry. But it’s when I see the effect this has had on MY life. But it’s passing and few and far in between.
Posted By: Traveler Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by Butterfly
Fierce compassion doesn't let the person off the hook for the terrible things they do or choices they make. Fierce compassion holds them accountable while acknowledging their limitations.
Originally Posted by LH19
So how do you let them off the hook and still hold them accountable?
I think you misread butterfly--see above. wink

Butterfly, well said!
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
So how do you let them off the hook and still hold them accountable?

You're not letting anyone off the hook when you feel compassion for them. Rather you're acknowledging that there is already a consequence and a price they are paying for their deplorable behavior that you may know nothing about, and you don't need to know about it either.
Firm boundaries. Boundaries boundaries boundaries to prevent further damage to yourself is also important, imho.

I can only give you some examples of personal experience:

My exh loves to triangulate between son, me and him. I no longer allow that. When he starts I respectfully and cordially say please talk to son directly. When he says son won't talk to him I say, he will when he's ready.

When my exh starts screaming at me, I tell him it's unacceptable. If he continues I say you can call me back when you're able to have a conversation without yelling.

I no longer respond to texts as soon as I get them. I respond when I have time, after thinking about it for a while, so that I can respond not react in as neutral a way as I can manage.

thoughts?
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by Ginger1
You explained that so well, Bfly. We can have compassion and understand peoples limitations, but it doesn’t excuse what was done. I think what many have a hard time with is thinking if we have compassion for those who hurt us, that means we excuse what was done. I will never excuse what my ex and his wife did. But I can have compassion for them and not want them to fail at life or have bad things happen to them or get joy from their lives sucking . I can be around them and be thankful for myself when my ex takes constant jabs at his wife that it isn’t me anymore. But I’m the same breath I seem to go in and defend her. Go figure.

And nope, it’s no linear. Some days I still get so angry. But it’s when I see the effect this has had on MY life. But it’s passing and few and far in between.
^^^^ so much this, SuperG xoxoxo
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 05:42 PM
I typed a response which didn’t go through. But you said it and CW said it and its so right. You can have compassion and forgiveness without letting someone off the hook. It’s doesn’t absolve them of what they did.

I think many get stuck , like you LH, thinking if you have compassion or forgiveness it lets them off the hook and says “I’m OK with what you did”. It isnt. It’s just having space for knowing everyone is human and flawed and has limitations like bttfly said.
Posted By: Traveler Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 05:49 PM
Will I ever say it was okay that my XW hit my son (once) because she was angry at me? No. There were consequences for her custody--that's accountability. Was I furious? Yes. Did I hold onto that anger? No. Her psyche was in a bad, bad place. I'm happy she found her way out of such a dark place, both for her sake and for the sake of the children.
Posted By: LH19 Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 06:02 PM
See this is where I disagree and get confused. If you ask me if I forgive her I would say “no”. But I’m not angry or bitter. Maybe at times when I see my kids hurting from it. I understand she is doing the best she can for her own well being. Last summer her car crapped out and I thought to myself “that [censored]” the same as anyone else. The only difference is I’m not going to spend any of my free time with her. Just not something I’m interested in doing right now. Again maybe in 10 years.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
See this is where I disagree and get confused. If you ask me if I forgive her I would say “no”. But I’m not angry or bitter. Maybe at times when I see my kids hurting from it. I understand she is doing the best she can for her own well being. Last summer her car crapped out and I thought to myself “that [censored]” the same as anyone else. The only difference is I’m not going to spend any of my free time with her. Just not something I’m interested in doing right now. Again maybe in 10 years.

I am a rarity that I spend minimal free time with them. That’s not the only
Level of forgiveness. I do think you are kind of angry and bitter and your hurt ego is still hurting.

Compassion for some bad stuff that happens and not getting some joy out of the bad stuff is fine. Then you forgave . And you don’t even know it
Posted By: LH19 Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 06:14 PM
Not angry or bitter but ego certainly took a hit. My sitch has a couple levels.
Posted By: LH19 Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 06:16 PM
The only person on here that I thought was truly detached and forgave was Another Stander.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
The only person on here that I thought was truly detached and forgave was Another Stander.
it's a work in progress, LH, for all of us.
Posted By: DnJ Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 06:56 PM
Good Morning bttrfly

Happy New Year!

I understand your dual emotions of the unexpected payment of son’s account. Yes, son making arrangements and owning it is a valid view, and then the bonus gift is pretty cool as well. It’s not your doing and good for you staying out of it. Son got a bonus. Yay!

It is interesting exh chose to do that. The lack of family togetherness, exh’s need/drive to find some else to do/focus on. Also, perhaps, son and Dad have spoken recently and Dad feels more remorse than usual.

Love your views on acceptance and compassion. You are very correct, it is not a linear progression, it is a choice, and it happens bit by bit until one day you realize the amazing place you find yourself.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
I think, maybe, forgiveness follows.

Absolutely!

Again not linear. Forgiveness and acceptance are much intertwined.

Compassion, understanding, empathy, kindness, morals, loyalty, responsibility, accountability, and so on, all play a part as well.

One’s path is more about the journey than the destination. And in that realization and waking the journey you actually achieve the desired goal/destination.

Forgiveness of self is the bigger part of that journey. And in my experience the harder/hardest person to forgive in all of this. Compassion for self, is an interesting lesson to learn and apply.

LH (sorry for the sidebar bttrfly), forgiveness is letting go of grudges, vengeance, and the need for reparations. Forgiveness writes paid in full upon that bill, and let’s go.

Grudges, hatred, vengeance, is a heavy load to lug around. It weights one down and prevents one from rising. Through accepting and forgiving, one can put down their self-imposed yoke and stand upright. And such a wonderful freedom comes forth.

“How do you let them off the hook and still hold them accountable?”

Compassion doesn’t let them off the hook. Forgiveness does.

Accountability is a separate issue. One can forgive someone and still hold them accountable.

Realize the hook one is truly on, is the hook they have placed themselves upon. Us letting them off the hook is more about us than them. In fact, most times the one being forgiven doesn’t even know (or care) that they were forgiven.

And that it is the truth of forgiveness - forgiveness is for you.

D
Posted By: LH19 Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 07:41 PM
So I guess I’m at forgiveness and didn’t even know it. I have no need for vengeance or reparations. Not even sure what that would look like. I thought true forgiveness was playing ping pong and Mario kart with them. Maybe that’s more pure detachment?
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
I thought true forgiveness was playing ping pong and Mario kart with them. Maybe that’s more pure detachment?

don't know what that is. i don't think it's detachment, that's for sure.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: In the bubble - 01/01/22 08:33 PM
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