Still Goin' Solo

[Maika]

Old Thread
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846465#Post2846465

[Maika]

So, this is more of a journal entry / vent session. I'm just putting my thoughts out here because I feel triggered today and instead of doing something, I thought I'd journal here and get some perspectives.

Not gonna do much of a background - BD in 2017; exW new OM in 2018; exW R implodes in 2020; D finalized in 2020.

Before COVID hit, I spent June 2019-March 2020 really working on myself. I got my diet in gear (I have a chronic health condition due to crappy genes); I was in the gym five days a week; I was climbing; and my emotional and mental health were better than ever. Then the pandemic hit and it all went downhill - I basically lost all my physical, mental and emotional gains, and I feel like I became very brittle in all areas. I started smoking again and drinking more than usual. Aside from the pandemic, when exW's R imploded with lilmanboy, it was devastating for my kids due to what happened and we're finally getting to a place where it's stable.

I am giving that short background because I wanna talk about something. I feel like if this had happened when I was solid, I wouldn't have been affected. Here it goes.

I've suspected for a while that exW has gotten into a new R - probably from around May this year. Which would make it 5 months after her previous R ended - lilmanboy had proposed to her and she had said yes to marriage. And she was in love with this idiot, or that's what she said to me.

I don't want to go into too many details, but a few days back something happened which made me feel like I was pretty right in my suspicion that she's in a new R. And today, she had dinner with the new dude and the kids at her place. I haven't been put in the loop about that - introducing someone new to the kids without giving the other person the heads up about it. My kids text me good night and they mentioned that he was there. I only know this dude by name.

I am feeling emotionally and mentally weak because of it. I don't know why, but I feel like all the detachment and emotional fortitude I had built up just evaporated. I felt kinda like BD all over again, in a smaller way. I guess after her previous R ended, maybe some part of me wished that she would now pick me instead and we could try and build what was destroyed. I am so angry at myself for feeling this because I know intellectually that is horse$hit. I even keep a list of things on my phone to look at whenever I start thinking about maybe being a place to piece with her. I'll write it out here:

1. she created conditions for another man to think he could kiss her; which he did and she enabled the EA (while we were married; but after BD)
2. Lying about her whereabouts during marriage
3. hasn't done any real emotional work
4. moved in with lilmanboy within three months
5. lived in a fantasy land with lilmanboy and wanted some fairytale ending
6. didn't set proper boundaries between lilmanboy and children
7. the $hit that went down that led to serious issues with D and S
8. tried to blame me for what happened that ended her previous R
9. unable to spend time alone
10. unable to be accountable and has paranoia and huge anxiety issues
11. get a new R rather than spend time alone to figure out her $hit
12. plays nice when she wants something (she's been doing this for the last few months)
13. manipulative and disingenous (i don't buy her new act)
14. thinks she has to 'handle' people
15. started dating again after previous R with lilmanboy ended
16. still acting selfishly and justifying her behavior as 'good' for the kids

I read this list to remind me what she has done so that I can keep a sober perspective about her.

When I think about this new R logically, it's a HUGE RED FLAG

1. Who decides to date after 5 months of ending a R where she was going to get married?
2. What kind of person dates someone who has just gotten out of a serious R? - this new dude
3. How is this not a minefield of red flags?

When I think about all of this, I know that even if I had the option of piecing with her, it would be a ridiculous idea. But I am still feeling like garbage right now - emotions don't listen to rational thoughts.

I know what I have to do - get my life in order. I am just in a bad place because nothing in my life is truly working right now

1. I am in a crappy job where I am overworked and seriously underpaid for what I do (been trying to get a new one for the last year and no dice, but I am still sending out applications)
2. My place is not nice, but I can't afford anything better right now due to my finances
3. My health has been in the gutter during the pandemic which could lead to serious issues if I don't get things in order
4. My abysmal mental and emotional health has created a negative feedback loop which enables smoking and drinking.

I feel like on every front, I am doing very poorly.

But some things are good: my R with the kids is super solid; I just started going back to the gym; and I am slowly getting my diet back on track

I know what I have to do - getting GAL back as now things are opening; writing and pursuing my creative interests; quitting smoking and taking a break from drinking; and getting back my meditation practice.

Intellectually I know all of this, but my heart is hurting. I tried to justify my trigger to - how dare she bring someone into the kids lives without telling me? but I know that is just me trying to exercise control, and I know that I have none when it comes to this. I think the trigger is because I slid back into the 'pick me dance' and wanted her to see me for what she had thrown away.

I know this is getting super long but I just wanted to write it out so at least it's out of my system. I have work to do, like Sisyphus, gotta push that stone to the top of the mountain again. I thought I got there pre-Covid, but now it's all over again.

If anyone has thoughts, it's appreciated. I thought I'd come and write this instead of sending her a text about why she didn't let me know she was introducing someone to the kids.

Thanks for reading!

[Maika]

I'm not going to text her about this tonight. Gonna sleep on it and see what anyone has to say about if I should do anything at all.

[Sage4]

Hi Maika,

I am sorry you are going through all of this right now. It's a lot, and just proves that no matter how far along we are in our situations, feelings still come up from time to time and the trauma of BD is real. But as we have been told by wise ones on this board, feelings are fleeting and my guess is you won't feel this way in a day, week or month. You are wise to sleep on these thoughts right now.

I could give you some 2x4's about getting your GAL game back on and taking charge of your mental and physical health, but there are others on this forum that will do so I want to focus on what you are experiencing with exW.

You doing great with the kids is a priority, so great job on that.

1. she created conditions for another man to think he could kiss her; which he did and she enabled the EA (while we were married; but after BD)
2. Lying about her whereabouts during marriage
3. hasn't done any real emotional work
4. moved in with lilmanboy within three months
5. lived in a fantasy land with lilmanboy and wanted some fairytale ending
6. didn't set proper boundaries between lilmanboy and children
7. the $hit that went down that led to serious issues with D and S
8. tried to blame me for what happened that ended her previous R
9. unable to spend time alone
10. unable to be accountable and has paranoia and huge anxiety issues
11. get a new R rather than spend time alone to figure out her $hit
12. plays nice when she wants something (she's been doing this for the last few months)
13. manipulative and disingenous (i don't buy her new act)
14. thinks she has to 'handle' people
15. started dating again after previous R with lilmanboy ended
16. still acting selfishly and justifying her behavior as 'good' for the kids

I like your list. Mine is really similar to yours. Even one or two of those items is enough to not consider your exW relationship material. And I believe that rationally you know this. But at the same time, there was a small part of you that imagined her coming back after ending it with lilmanboy. Why? Was it so you could turn her down spectacularly and finally get a chance to tell her what you really think of her? Or, are you still truly in love with her despite all the things she has done?

I ask this because if it's the former, then you are giving her too much power over you, power she doesn't even seem to be asking for, and certainly does not deserve. Is she a proxy for all the suffering you are experiencing right now in the rest of your life; things that appear to be out of control (but really are not) such as job, health and mental headspace? Is it easier to use her as a handy hook for your challenges than to face them head on? And is it easier for you to spend the mental energy trying to control her and find all the red flags in her situation than to acknowledge yours in your own life?

And if it's the latter, and you are still in love with her deep down, that just takes time. And the more you stay out of her business, the better off you will be. Because you can't control who she loves or when she resumes dating or even who she introduces to the kids. It svcks. It's hard. But she is going to do her, serial dating and all and you can't do one GD thing about it except accept it. .

Regarding the kids and introducing someone new (you have no power over WHO she introduces, BTW), I am not sure what the standard operating orders are for something like this (my stbxH's OW lives far away for the time being and we don't have an official parenting plan yet), but if we look at a post-d relationship with kids as simply being a co-parenting R and nothing more, then it would be in the best interest of the kids for one parent to inform the other when introducing someone new. Because kids have questions and they are also really, really perceptive and will see on your face when they have told you something that you didn't know, no matter how straight-faced you will be. And kids don't like to know more than their parents, it disrupts the equilibrium and their sense of safety. Do you have something in your parenting plan that you can refer to here? And if not, due to the unfortunate events with lilmanboy, would it not make sense to add something if you can't agree.

The first step would be to talk to ex about how you can navigate this in the future. But you have to get yourself to a place of neutrality about it. The conversation can't happen if there is even a whiff of you trying to control her. Because you can't. And exW doesn't owe you any more information than 'I am seeing someone and I would like to introduce him to the kids over dinner this week. I am telling them he is just a friend for the time being. Just wanted to let you know in case they say something to you.'

I have work to do, like Sisyphus, gotta push that stone to the top of the mountain again. I thought I got there pre-Covid, but now it's all over again.

Great analogy. My guess is that this time won't last as long nor be as tough as the initial BD. Because surely Sisyphus gained some muscle over the years rolling that rock up the mountain so many times?

Hang in there Maika, your wisdom on this board is so helpful to others', I know you have it in you for your own situation.

Sage

[Maika]

I am sorry you are going through all of this right now. It's a lot, and just proves that no matter how far along we are in our situations, feelings still come up from time to time and the trauma of BD is real. But as we have been told by wise ones on this board, feelings are fleeting and my guess is you won't feel this way in a day, week or month. You are wise to sleep on these thoughts right now.

Thanks Sage! Yeh, the trauma takes time to get past and I thought I was over it and I realized that I am not in many ways.

But at the same time, there was a small part of you that imagined her coming back after ending it with lilmanboy. Why? Was it so you could turn her down spectacularly and finally get a chance to tell her what you really think of her? Or, are you still truly in love with her despite all the things she has done?

This is a great question and observation. I think part of me wanted her to ask me to piece with her and that I would turn her down - not spectacularly, but still have some vindication that she made a big mistake. However, I don't think that is it because it's more like a revenge fantasy that is ridiculous. I don't think I am still in love with her because when I look at her through sober eyes, she is not the right person for me to have a partnership with.

I think that my wanting her to pick me stems from a total lack of self-worth and self-value. This is a bit of a long story but I've had an auto-immune condition since I was a lil kid and that completely destroyed my self worth and self value over the years - if I say more it'll be easy to figure out my details. That coupled with other family and childhood trauma added fuel to the fire. I never imagined that a woman would ever be interested in me due to my auto-immune condition and that was the case for most of my life. It's a condition that I cannot hide. I had some gfs here and there, but it never felt real to me, that someone would actually want to be with me. So, when exW wanted to be with me and marry me, that felt like out of a dream to me. I never imagined that a woman would find value in me.

I am still stuck in that rut of not thinking that I am worth anything. I am not an unattractive dude. In the past few years I've started slowly developing my senses around a woman being interested in me - something that I had never cultivated growing up since I never thought it would be a possibility. I know that there are women who find me a catch and intellectually I know that I have great value and I know what I bring, but emotionally and mentally I am not there yet.

So, part of what's triggered me here is that I want exW to see that I still have value and I am worthy of her time and attention, just like she did when we got together. And I know it's foolish but I think that's what's been a problem. I don't love her. I love the idea of her wanting me and thinking of me as someone with value.

Do you have something in your parenting plan that you can refer to here? And if not, due to the unfortunate events with lilmanboy, would it not make sense to add something if you can't agree.

No we don't have something explicit in our agreement. We did verbally agree that we would give each other a heads up, but she didn't do that with lilmanboy and I figured after how things went down with him, she would have the sense to know better. I should've said something but the idea that she would go have a new R in a matter of months seemed incredulous considering how it went down. But, it's on me that I should've said something to remind her about it. Putting it into the agreement now seems like a petty and expensive thing to do. For me it just seems like common sense, but obviously for her it's not.

The first step would be to talk to ex about how you can navigate this in the future. But you have to get yourself to a place of neutrality about it. The conversation can't happen if there is even a whiff of you trying to control her. Because you can't. And exW doesn't owe you any more information than 'I am seeing someone and I would like to introduce him to the kids over dinner this week. I am telling them he is just a friend for the time being. Just wanted to let you know in case they say something to you.'

yeah I can't approach this in an accusatory manner. She owes me exactly what you wrote out basically, but she hasn't had the decency to do that. Considering how she's been more forthcoming and congenial about other things in the past few months, she should've mentioned it. But as I said earlier, her niceness is suspect and I've not bought into it, and now I know it's a sham. It's just a way for her to exercise control.

After I wrote that post, I was just stewing and that wasn't any good. One of the things that I am trying to do is have a 'bias towards action'. It's something I've heard from Rich Roll and other folks who have gotten past their challenges in life. I just went on a drive and put on a podcast interview with David Goggins and it lit a fire up my a$$. I know that I have to continue to do the work more earnestly and with discipline.

My absolute first priority is to get a new better paying job and then move out of this place to somewhere nicer. I am already taking care of my health since the last week and I know how to execute in that area.

This community has been a lifeline for me over the last few years and so I am always grateful that I can come here first before I do anything.

[Maika]

Is it easier to use her as a handy hook for your challenges than to face them head on? And is it easier for you to spend the mental energy trying to control her and find all the red flags in her situation than to acknowledge yours in your own life?

forgot to address this.

I have definitely spent more time dwelling on her in the last few months than I have previously. Part of it was based on her being a lot nicer to me and that kinda messed with my head even though I know that she's done that in the past because she wanted something from me. If I target the timeline, it started around when she started seeing this new dude.

I think part of me is pissed off that her life seems all dandy and nice and I am the one still struggling with my job, finances, etc. She's always made more money than me (never been an issue - her industry pays way more than mine), and she was able to buy a new house and I am still renting after BD. Now she's got a new dude on the hook and I am still trying to salvage my self-worth so that I can be a good partner to someone someday. From the outside, her life looks spectacular and my life is in shambles. I know that it is a skewed perspective because I don't know what her life is actually like, but it looks damn good from the outside.

I got pulled into her red flags because I guess I needed something to get pissed off about. You are right that I haven't focused on my own crap as much because it's easier to rage on about her than myself. I need to do better than that. I was doing better than that and I've just crumbled in the last year. Arghhh!!! I am just frustrated with myself.

[OnlyBent]

Hey M, sorry to hear that you think you've backslid a bit, I know how tough those times can feel, especially when you think you've moved through a stage only to be back there again, pretty disheartening.

Having you back regularly posting has been great, you are making a great contribution, I thank you for that.

I also respect how honest and self-reflective you are, and this situation particularly. Sage gave you some pretty good advice, all I want to say is when you read that list, why is she the prize? If you were to look at it objectively from an outsider's perspective, would you want to be with someone characterised by that list?

Re the getting back to the good place you were previously, the how to eat an elephant (one piece at a time) comes to mind. Small gains. But I've learnt more importantly is the consistency of those small efforts. A little piece....every day. Its amazing what can be accomplished when you consistently attack something every day for a year.

[bttrfly]

M seems like you are judging your insides by her outsides... apples and oranges ... I get it, I really do, because I've been there and could be there again in a heartbeat.

Why not focus on one small thing you'd like to do or change in yourself and work on that every time you get distracted by Exw's shenanigans?

Good to have you posting more.

[Maika]

Hey M, sorry to hear that you think you've backslid a bit, I know how tough those times can feel, especially when you think you've moved through a stage only to be back there again, pretty disheartening.

Thanks OB! I was surprised by how much I was triggered by this. the good thing about backsliding is you know how to get back up because you've been on the road, so I'm feeling pretty positive about it. The harder journey was after BD when everything was blurry and maddening.

I also respect how honest and self-reflective you are, and this situation particularly.

Yeah there's no real point if I can't be as honest and open about things. I've been dealt a crappy hand from the start and I am trying to play with what I've got until I can improve what I've got.

Re the getting back to the good place you were previously, the how to eat an elephant (one piece at a time) comes to mind. Small gains. But I've learnt more importantly is the consistency of those small efforts. A little piece....every day. Its amazing what can be accomplished when you consistently attack something every day for a year.

Why not focus on one small thing you'd like to do or change in yourself and work on that every time you get distracted by Exw's shenanigans?

you're both absolutely right. you got to pick something and start there. I can't just pick one thing and then move on to the next mostly. I gotta tackle the job situation and my health at the same time, and I can do that. The health is easier because it is fully in my control (as much as one can have full control over their health). But the job front has been depressing all year - sent out so many applications and nothing really. I'm just down about that because I don't think I can do my current job for too long before I snap. I need to put my full energy into that and the kids. Everything else is secondary at this point.

M seems like you are judging your insides by her outsides... apples and oranges ... I get it, I really do, because I've been there and could be there again in a heartbeat.

i know what you mean and intellectually i know, but emotionally it's not sitting right. i know that I have more healing to do.

I kinda feel split open and raw from sharing my sitch. I re-read it and it made me feel like such a weakling - I know that's dumb and macho man BS. I felt like I threw like the biggest pity party and invited all my insecurities and gave them VIP seats to me wallowing in nonsense. I'm not minimizing my feelings, but I didn't think I would be here after all this time. I just got more work to do.

[BL42]

Maika,

"Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves up."

Sorry you've regressed a bit physically, mentally, and emotionally. Keep in mind you got through initial BD and D and had those aspects of your life strong. It's understandable to have a bit of a backslide, you can and WILL do it again...and it will be easier this time already having gone through it once. You're already crushing it with the kids and starting back on the gym. Remember back to how you built yourself up and do that again. You'll get there one step at a time.

But as we have been told by wise ones on this board, feelings are fleeting and my guess is you won't feel this way in a day, week or month.

Sage4 gives good advice here. You'll get through this bump and feel strong again.

I haven't been put in the loop about that - introducing someone new to the kids without giving the other person the heads up about it.

It's maddening. It's infuriating. I've had the same experience with my ExW & kids; it's a feeling of completely loss of control over how your children are raised, taught, modeled. Sorry man. Unfortunately there's just nothing we can do about it. Our Exs will do as they please, regardless of what we think or what's in the best interest of the children.

From the outside, her life looks spectacular and my life is in shambles.

Her life could be spectacular. Or it could be awful. Who knows what's going on behind the scenes. After all, you know things blew up on her once already. Key thing is don't let your perception of how she's doing affect you. Instead try to focus on yourself and improving your life. Easier said than done, trust me I get it, but you can get there.

Having you back regularly posting has been great, you are making a great contribution, I thank you for that.

^I second OB's motion! You've helped me a lot weighing in on my sitch and I can see you doing the same for others.

[bttrfly]

M seems like you are judging your insides by her outsides... apples and oranges ... I get it, I really do, because I've been there and could be there again in a heartbeat.

i know what you mean and intellectually i know, but emotionally it's not sitting right. i know that I have more healing to do.

I kinda feel split open and raw from sharing my sitch. I re-read it and it made me feel like such a weakling - I know that's dumb and macho man BS. I felt like I threw like the biggest pity party and invited all my insecurities and gave them VIP seats to me wallowing in nonsense. I'm not minimizing my feelings, but I didn't think I would be here after all this time. I just got more work to do.

i am not trying to minimize how you feel by saying this, because i also sometimes feel that way after talking to someone or posting something that deeply upsets me too. in my opinion you are absolutely not a weakling, or wallowing in self pity. $h!t happens and it's upsetting, period. Baby you've only just begun. Look at some of us who are still moving forward, still healing, years, and years, and years later. My exh left over 6 years ago. His AP/now wife sent me an email last summer telling me to get over it they've been together for years and years and to eff off. I wasn't communicating with him about our failed relationship. I had emailed him about our son, who was on the precipice of what turned into a life threatening crisis. I have no control over the fact that she is in my son's life. I signed up for creating a family with my exh, not any extraneous people he chooses to bring into our family dynamic. I've chosen to ignore her and focus on my son. I've also chosen to no longer communicate with my exh about anything that happens to our son unless my son specifically asks me to, but he's almost 22 so it's not in my or his face. His dad is 3000 miles away and about to be 6000 miles away soon. It still hurts. Seeing how our failed marriage has affected my son hurts every day. I live with it because I have to make some kind of peace with it or I'll lose my mind. Our divorce was final 12/23/16. I have met two people for coffee. I've yet to go on a date. Some people's journeys take longer than others. Again, if I judge my healing process by anyone else's I'm not doing myself any favors. I guess what I'm trying to say M is give yourself a break and be gentle with yourself because this world is a far from gentle place.

{{{{{{{M}}}}}}}

[Sage4]

Maika, you said something really, really profound in your reply to my post:

I think that my wanting her to pick me stems from a total lack of self-worth and self-value. This is a bit of a long story but I've had an auto-immune condition since I was a lil kid and that completely destroyed my self worth and self value over the years - if I say more it'll be easy to figure out my details. That coupled with other family and childhood trauma added fuel to the fire. I never imagined that a woman would ever be interested in me due to my auto-immune condition and that was the case for most of my life. It's a condition that I cannot hide. I had some gfs here and there, but it never felt real to me, that someone would actually want to be with me. So, when exW wanted to be with me and marry me, that felt like out of a dream to me. I never imagined that a woman would find value in me.

I am still stuck in that rut of not thinking that I am worth anything. I am not an unattractive dude. In the past few years I've started slowly developing my senses around a woman being interested in me - something that I had never cultivated growing up since I never thought it would be a possibility. I know that there are women who find me a catch and intellectually I know that I have great value and I know what I bring, but emotionally and mentally I am not there yet.

So, part of what's triggered me here is that I want exW to see that I still have value and I am worthy of her time and attention, just like she did when we got together. And I know it's foolish but I think that's what's been a problem. I don't love her. I love the idea of her wanting me and thinking of me as someone with value.

Do you realize how incredibly self-aware and wise you are? It would take most of us a lifetime to uncover the reasoning behind our reactions and yet you spit that out in a matter of an hour to my question.

And now, based upon your self-aware response, I am going to gently ask you what steps you are taking to detach your self worth from your exW's opinion of you? And an even harder question: did your ex fill some holes of mothering/parenting love that you didn't get enough of as a child? Because until you open that closet of ghosts, you won't be able to fully detach from exW as the root cause may be way, way upstream.

I can't remember if you are in therapy or not, but your wisdom and awareness would make the therapeutic process very productive, is my guess.

I am also going to gently point out to you that you are looking for external validation for inner peace. A sh*t job, a just-OK home, a body that has fallen victim to pandemic languishing can bring us all down, but shouldn't define you. Only you define you. You are making strides here, attempting to get a new job which might allow some upward mobility in your lifestyle, but even if nothing external changes, you are still you. A great dad, a wise voice of reason on this board, I am sure you're a good friend, and you're smart and articulate. You have a lot going for you. Let those things fill you up right now. Because a new job isn't going to save you and a new house with a fancy pool isn't going to save you and a gorgeous GF who loves the heck out of you isn't going to save you. Only you can save you and I think you have the tools for this.

Hugs,
Sage

[Maika]

oh wow so many great responses.

eep in mind you got through initial BD and D and had those aspects of your life strong. It's understandable to have a bit of a backslide, you can and WILL do it again...and it will be easier this time already having gone through it once. You're already crushing it with the kids and starting back on the gym. Remember back to how you built yourself up and do that again. You'll get there one step at a time.

Thanks BL! Yeh, the road has been walked before and now I gotta walk it again. This time I do have supplies with me.

It's maddening. It's infuriating. I've had the same experience with my ExW & kids; it's a feeling of completely loss of control over how your children are raised, taught, modeled. Sorry man. Unfortunately there's just nothing we can do about it. Our Exs will do as they please, regardless of what we think or what's in the best interest of the children.

yeah definitely it is maddening and part of it is the loss of control. I knew how to deal with that, and I gotta get back there. We were starting some co-parenting, but now I'm gonna switch it back to parallel parenting, go as dark and NC as possible - not that this will change things, but it will help my sanity.

i am not trying to minimize how you feel by saying this, because i also sometimes feel that way after talking to someone or posting something that deeply upsets me too. in my opinion you are absolutely not a weakling, or wallowing in self pity. $h!t happens and it's upsetting, period. Baby you've only just begun. Look at some of us who are still moving forward, still healing, years, and years, and years later. My exh left over 6 years ago. His AP/now wife sent me an email last summer telling me to get over it they've been together for years and years and to eff off.

Again, if I judge my healing process by anyone else's I'm not doing myself any favors. I guess what I'm trying to say M is give yourself a break and be gentle with yourself because this world is a far from gentle place.

Thanks for the validation. Sometime breaking down feels like weakness, but I know it's part of the journey. The message from AP definitely stinks and seems unnecessary. You're right the healing journey has it's own timeline and I should just focus on mine rather than comparing myself to anyone else. I went on a horrendous date, which came about by total accident and my stupidity - long story; i shouldn't have gotten myself into that mess. And then the pandemic hit so I didn't venture out and the D wasn't final either so wanted to wait that out. I don't feel ready to date yet at all and just gonna put the focus on myself and the kids - get the house in order basically first.

I guess what I'm trying to say M is give yourself a break and be gentle with yourself because this world is a far from gentle place.

thanks bttrfly. those are some wise words to live by.

Do you realize how incredibly self-aware and wise you are? It would take most of us a lifetime to uncover the reasoning behind our reactions and yet you spit that out in a matter of an hour to my question.

thanks for the kind words Sage. Yeh I did IC for about a year after BD and it helped me get out the immediate abyss. I think I am going to go back when I can in 2022 - financial issues. I've spent a lot of time sitting with myself to unpack everything and just to gain understanding and so these insights have come after a lot of introspection. I wasn't just dealing with BD, but the traumas of my whole life and so I needed to get to some answers. Partly because BD just was the last straw and everything went out of control. I needed to get some control back and stop freefalling.

And now, based upon your self-aware response, I am going to gently ask you what steps you are taking to detach your self worth from your exW's opinion of you? And an even harder question: did your ex fill some holes of mothering/parenting love that you didn't get enough of as a child? Because until you open that closet of ghosts, you won't be able to fully detach from exW as the root cause may be way, way upstream.

I've really come to understand the importance of action. I always tried to change how I felt and thought, but after hearing from some folks who've gone on hard journeys, I've seen that internal change happens through action, which affects thoughts, which changes feelings. So, for me to detach my self-worth from exW, I need to actually value myself - my health and my aspirations. I need to put consistent action towards those areas so I am affirming myself every day. And that doing these things is important because I am important. If you have any other ideas, I am totally open to suggestions.

exW definitely filled the holes left behind by childhood abandonment and neglect - traumas that exacerbated my already low value from the auto immune condition. I definitely think that I need a professional to help with this area because I don't know how far I can get just by myself. I'm looking forward to MDMA therapy becoming legalized - I'm seeing incredible evidence of how phenomenal the therapeutic process is. I think improving my perceptions of myself will go a long way, just not all the way I think. Again, happy to hear suggestions on this.

I am also going to gently point out to you that you are looking for external validation for inner peace. A sh*t job, a just-OK home, a body that has fallen victim to pandemic languishing can bring us all down, but shouldn't define you. Only you define you. You are making strides here, attempting to get a new job which might allow some upward mobility in your lifestyle, but even if nothing external changes, you are still you.

because a new job isn't going to save you and a new house with a fancy pool isn't going to save you and a gorgeous GF who loves the heck out of you isn't going to save you. Only you can save you and I think you have the tools for this.

you're definitely right. all of this is an inside job. none of the material things will give way to lasting peace and inner happiness. right now a lack of all of that is just clouding my perceptions and amplifying the feelings of failure.

yeah i'm a big proponent of 'no one is coming to save you'. even when you have a loving community and all the help - which is great - but when you lean on that pillow at night, it's just you and your mind and so you have to put in the work.

Appreciate all the thoughtful comments from everyone. I had planned on quitting smoking tomorrow a few weeks back - set my quit date. So, that's gonna be a great step. Every time I feel like crap about my job, I apply for a new job. So, taking action rather than stewing in it.

Much love and thanks!

[bttrfly]

it was totally unnecessary and clear upon reading the email that she had written it with wine glass in hand.

all about ego with these people. What set her off was that I didn't know she existed. That REALLY p!$$ed her off, but how was I supposed to know she existed? was my kid supposed to tell me?

what the eff ever. good luck she's gonna need it.

[DejaVu6]

Hi Maika. Just wanted to lend my support. I love all of the wisdom and advice that others have shared with you. Please don’t beat yourself up. Imagine if it was your best friend going through the same thing and what you would say to him or her. We are always so much harder on ourselves. We need to be our own best friends.

I did want to add one thing. I, too, have a list that I keep on my phone. However, it isn’t about my XH and all the crappy things he did because I don’t want my focus to be on him. Instead, I have a collection of inspirational quotes focused on what I want for my life and in my future partner (if I am blessed enough to find love again). It reminds me of where I am heading and not where I have been. Maybe it is time to refocus your list and make it less about your XW and more about you? Just a thought.

RE: XW introducing new people to your kids. Yeah…not much you can do, I’m afraid. My advice would be to prepare yourself to hear things you don’t want to hear when your kids come home and work on your game face. They will take their cues from you. Be neutral in your expression and interested in what they say but not too interested. Don’t give them the impression you have any feelings about it otherwise your upset will become their upset. It’s hard, I know, but it is just one of the aspects of divorce that svcks. You don’t get to choose who your kids meet when they aren’t with you. It is what it is. If you do want to work out an agreement about giving each other a heads up, you can always approach your XW about it but make it about improving communication between you and not about controlling what she does.

Sending you lots of love and (((Hugs))). You’ll get through this period of time and back on track. Have faith.

[LH19]

M,

Sorry you’re struggling man we started this journey at the same time. I think this board sometimes does a disservice of not allowing people to move forward. I’m convinced now that LBS are not plan B but are more like plan k. It’s never about the OP. It’s about blowing up the life they had because it was unfulfilling for whatever reason. It’s not some temporary fog. I think that’s the money grab for MWDs book and services.

Have you considered dating it’s been awhile for you? It’s a game changer when you realize that there is a lot of great women out there that really want what you have to offer.

[Dawn70]

I echo what others have already said. I'm sorry you are going through this tough time. It is so hard to just feel so raw and exposed. You have such amazing insight and seem so very self-aware and that is great. You also give great feedback to many others on this board and I think that is a lovely quality to be able to share experiences with others in a constructive way.

Here's to better days ahead!

[Maika]

DejaVu:

Thanks for the support and kind words. I love the idea of have a list of positive things, quotes in my phone. I am doing the asap. I need to be more future oriented and have things in there that are my goals and aspirations. I think that will be wonderful for my mindset. Thanks for that suggestion.

LH:

Hey brother! Thanks for chiming in. You're absolutely right that we're not Plan B, but Plan K lol. I was about to get into the dating pool just before the pandemic hit and that delayed all plans. But now I feel like I can do that. The goal is to get my $hit together by December and then enter the dating waters in 2022. still not sure what I want - maybe a long term R, but I probably just want something casual in the beginning to get the mojo back. My friends tell me that I look like a younger version of Jeff Goldblum, so I got that going for me

Dawn:

Appreciate the kind words. I think I went through a few hard days but I feel a whole lot better today. Amazing what a great night's sleep will do to you. I try to share and be helpful in what I can here as I think I got so much out of this community, it is my responsibility to share back and see if I can help anyone.

I feel really good today. I had Goggins in my ears all day and it snapped me out of my funk. It also made me realize that I haven't lost all my emotional and mental gains - I spent a couplea days wallowing, but I am back. I know that there will be some backsliding here and there, but the fact that I am able to go the gym now is a lifesaver - that's ME time and it's the place where I get my sanity back.

Just going to live by the adage of 'have a bias towards action' and keep going at it. I know what I also bring in the professional world is incredible and I'm just going to keep applying to appropriate jobs and keep knocking on the door. I have a phone screen next week for a job and even though I'm not particularly enthused about the position, it is still a positive step. Let's see what the job is like and if it meets what I am looking for.

This community is just one of the best things that I've come across for support. Everyone takes time to give such thoughtful feedback and if we could divulge our real identities and have a yearly reunion somewhere, I'd definitely do it

Taking the recycling out today and cleaning up the place. Got some plants that have spruced up my shabby apartment, so making it more homey. Can't wait to get out of this place to a new apartment with a new job. It's coming. I just gotta persevere.

[LH19]

Yeah just get out there and don’t worry about labeling it. Lots of great available women in your neck of the woods. Go out on some dates and see what happens.

[Maika]

yeah you're right LH. No need for excessive planning about this, just gotta take the plunge and then see how it goes and what happens. i haven't been on OLD since covid so let's see how the scene is looking.

[Traveler]

yeah you're right LH. No need for excessive planning about this, just gotta take the plunge and then see how it goes and what happens. i haven't been on OLD since covid so let's see how the scene is looking.

People may make fun of me attracting drama, but I get no shortage of interest online or offline, in the marriage or casual sections with three simple tricks: (1) Be kind, (2) Be honest, (3) Write a profile or openly tell others why you're unique--don't be person #732 that like "Long walks on the beach." It's better to attract 33% of people and turn off 67% of people, than for almost everyone to feel neutral. This is what they teach in business marketing, applied to dating. Good luck and have fun. (:

[Maika]

Thanks CW! Any tips on which apps I should try on? I was thinking Bumble and Hinge. Not sure if there are other new ones out there.

I agree about attracting 33% of the folks and there's no point if I'm not kind and honest. I know you get a lot of drama and I've been following it

[Traveler]

If you're seeking a relationship of 3+ months, Bumble (app) and eHarmony (website) are both good. On Bumble, women send the first message which saves time. You know they're interested before you write a message. On eHarmony, you have to fill out a 45-minute personality questionnaire and pay which weeds out people unlikely to meet.

Tinder seems to have the biggest pool. I ended up meeting someone I knew in-person my first day on it! But, you could literally write thoughtful messages and find only 1 in 3 reply. More work on your part.

[Ginger1]

CW, we don’t make fun of you for attracting crazy. I attract crazy too. Everyone attracts crazy on these apps. Maika, be prepared for that, especially on tinder. It what you do with the crazy that counts. When you see the crazy, you need to run from it.

I took a dating hiatus myself during Covid for about 8 months. Mainly because I didn’t feel good about myself. I put on some fast weight due to high dose steroid use and I couldn’t get it off. I also got an adult haircut that hurt my self esteem. I also began drinking more as well. I saw a doctor, got myself straightened out and when I felt better about myself I jumped back into OLD.

Met some wacko’s, met some nice people, met lots of flakes, met people that were only meant to last for one night. I am definitely taking it more in stride now. I continue to work on myself. I can’t date unless I feel good about me.

Get to a place where you feel comfortable with yourself and you’ll me ready to date. Just know people are nutty out there. It’s just how you handle it

[Maika]

Thanks CW! I'll keep those apps in mind.

Ginger:

Aside from one date, which happened outside the apps and my own stupidity (i knew right away it wasn't good and the aftermath was not good for a while with this person; i should've known better), i haven't dipped into OLD.

I haven't felt good about myself during the pandemic and I started drinking and smoking a lot, gained 15 pounds and mental health was in the gutter. Pre-pandemic I was on track for my health goals and was at 15% body fat (I know I'm being vain here, but I want to get to 10-12% BF). I am at 20% BF right now and working towards getting back to where I want to be - I got patience and I know how to do it safely.

I definitely do expect some craziness out there and I'll have to navigate that, but I got a killer community here that can help me out if I am doing stupid things.

[BL42]

I've found Hinge far and away the most normal-seeming ("oh, I could see myself dating and having a relationship with her") profiles. Match and Bumble had some promise early but quickly fell off, and Tinder is just an absolute waste land with 1/3 catfish profiles, 1/3 literally scary profiles and 1/3 maybe normal but not always close. It may depend on where you're located...just my experience to date.

CW - Are you located in a major city? Just curious you seem to have an abundance of options.

[LH19]

M,

Start with Hinge, Bumble and Tinder. All free and all have their advantages.

[Traveler]

1/3 catfish profiles, 1/3 literally scary profiles and 1/3 maybe normal but not always close.

How do you assess that a profile is a "catfish"? I need to do a reverse image search for that, but only bother with when we start talking. It's rare in my area--maybe 1 in 50 profiles? Similar question for "scary"?

CW - Are you located in a major city? Just curious you seem to have an abundance of options.

I've used Bumbe in big cities and tiny towns. One dating app has 3 live profiles in my area. As long as they bother to write a profile,. I treat each match like a human being. I don't assume. I ask questions. Like if they were in-front of me, right? "Hmm.. I love your philosophy on life, but I don't see any interests in common. Do you happen to be into X, Y, or Z?"

[Maika]

CW - any tips on writing the profile? I know I can google stuff about it, but I thought I'd ask from a real practitioner. would you be willing to share what your profile reads like? feel free to change things up for anonymity sake here.

The only thing i'd definitely put in there is that i have young kids - just to screen people out who don't want a match with a single parent.

I also need to get some decent pics of myself. well, i have some time to get that in order until Dec. i think i'll probably start with the free ones first and see how it goes

[kml]

From a woman's perspective- PLEASE no nude or semi-nude selfies in front of the bathroom mirror.

And no photos with your ex or another date obviously cropped out. If a photo shows you with a woman, please identify her as your sister, so we know she's not your ex.

Have someone check your spelling and grammar if that's not your strong suit. Share some of your interests. Please, something more enlightening than "walks on the beach". If you're into off-roading in the desert, say so. If you're into classic rock, say so.

Both would be a negative check in my book, not because there's anything wrong with them, which there isn't, but because they tell me we have some incompatibilities. I'm probably not going to want to spend all my weekends out in the desert drinking beer with your motorcycle buddies - fun scene but just not mine - and if someone my age is still hung up on the music of our youth, it tells me their mind isn't flexible enough to enjoy music made after the 70's. Again, nothing wrong with that, but music from all ages is a big part of my life and it's disappointing when someone can't share at least some of that with me.

I think the more you include your genuine interests, the more vibrant a person you appear, AND the better matches you will get. You'll get the girl who LOVES camping out in the desert with the motorheads, and not accidentally wind up with me. Similarly, if someone loves boating and spends most weekends fishing and partying on their boat - that's great, but I have terrible incapacitating motion sickness and cannot go on boats so I would be a lousy partner for them. Similarly, someone retired who is looking for a traveling companion for frequent travel, would not be happy with me who is still working and can only take limited time off.

Also - in today's era - you might as well be honest about your political leanings. I know this will be an unpopular statement here, but I'm definitely 100% not compatible with people of a certain political persuasion right now, and it would save us both a lot of time and trouble if a guy's post stated something that let me know which side of that divide they fell on. Even a hint is enough.

[Traveler]

i'll probably start with the free ones first and see how it goes

Amateur pics trump something Photoshopped. Mine are all taken by me or friends. A face shot, a full-body shot, an action shot, a group shot, something highlighting my cooking skills, somewhere amazing I visited.

CW - any tips on writing the profile?

Mine has a short intro, a short bit about what I'm seeking, a couple of incredibly unique bits about me, a note about my kids, and a suggestion for their first message. The "incredibly unique bits about me" is most important. You want to separate yourself from generic "I like to hike" or "I like walks on the beach" profiles. What do you do that 99% in your area don't or can't?

[Ginger1]

Well, as a female about your age, you might want my tips on writing a profile.

1) no gym selfies

2) no dead fish

3) smile!!!

4) must have appropriate humor added in there. No kids In pictures. The prompts let everyone know you have kids and are divorced.

3) no blurry pictures

Make sure the “about you” section is actually about you, and not what you expect or want in a partner. Make it positives and never negatives

A good smile, a positive bio, shared interests, employed, within reasonable proximity, gets a swipe right from me!

Usually guys bomb at conversation time with me. Break out the dirty nasty right up front. Don’t do that! Lol

[Dawn70]

No sunglasses selfies or as G and kml said bathroom or gym selfies. I also don’t care for group shots, unless you specifically identify which one you are…too much guesswork.

Be honest about who you are and what you are looking for. Direct and funny are good. Be confident but not cocky. And to kml’s point, (and for me personally, I can’t stress this one enough), grammar and spell check. It might sound snobby on my part but if I encountered terrible spelling and poor grammar on a profile, regardless of how the guy looked or sounded in his profile, I kept on trucking by.

[bttrfly]

intelligence, humor, please, I do not need a full body shot. That to me says you're trying way too hard and I'm likely to get a d!c& pic at some point down the road, which isn't something I want or need.

just be real.

the one guy I really clicked with was funny, polite, respectful, and intelligent. He had a smile that was genuine.

[BL42]

1/3 catfish profiles, 1/3 literally scary profiles and 1/3 maybe normal but not always close.

How do you assess that a profile is a "catfish"? I need to do a reverse image search for that, but only bother with when we start talking. It's rare in my area--maybe 1 in 50 profiles? Similar question for "scary"?

Maybe "catfish" is not the right word, but there are definitely obviously fake accounts on Tinder...a lot of them.

Once you use the app for a bit you start to recognize them..."too good to be true" ages and pictures which are obviously not local, often with duplicative bios "I'm shy at first but will warm up", and references to their Instagram and Snapchat profiles, and possibly a weird nature picture with cryptic text.

In terms of scary just mean profiles that may be real but I wouldn't touch with a ten foot poll.

Also a lot more "hook up with me while my husband watches" or "married ethically non-monogamous" than I'd ever imagine.

Maybe I'm wrong, just seems like Tinder is the trashiest.

[Maika]

Thanks everyone for the OLD feedback. I will keep it in my backpocket until I take the plunge. I definitely have a lot to learn in this area. Few things:

From a woman's perspective- PLEASE no nude or semi-nude selfies in front of the bathroom mirror.

haha no worries there. thanks for the reminder though.

and a suggestion for their first message

I don't understand that. What does that mean? Is it something like 'hey, ask me about how I managed to eat the behemoth cheeseburger at the county fair' - i know I'm sounding ridiculous here but scarfing down giant cheeseburgers might be someone's unique thing lol.

2) no dead fish

like literally no dead fish or am I missing some dating lingo here.

And to kml’s point, (and for me personally, I can’t stress this one enough), grammar and spell check.

yeah I try to be on point with grammar and spelling for sure. I'm cavalier on this site as I don't proofread my posts, but point well taken.

Once you use the app for a bit you start to recognize them..."too good to be true" ages and pictures which are obviously not local, often with duplicative bios "I'm shy at first but will warm up", and references to their Instagram and Snapchat profiles, and possibly a weird nature picture with cryptic text.

In terms of scary just mean profiles that may be real but I wouldn't touch with a ten foot poll.

Also a lot more "hook up with me while my husband watches" or "married ethically non-monogamous" than I'd ever imagine.

yeah i've heard tinder has bot accts and some fake accts. I'll definitely watch out for that. Don't plan on getting on Tinder first but will check it out at some point. also at least I'm glad ppl are saying that they want their husbands to watch, so you can screen those accts out - unless that's your thing. I know the ethically non-monogamous stuff and polyamory stuff is also quite prevalent now. Heard enough about how brutal that is and so gonna steer away from that. Good for folks who can manage it.

[kml]

Also - for pics - please, under no circumstances, post a picture of yourself in a bathrobe holding a live duck! I have no idea what that photo was about but it was so bizarre that was a no go from the moment I saw the photo.

[OnlyBent]

Yo Maika, have you considered not doing OLD? When I am ready to start dating properly I am going to go down the road of trying to meet people the old fashioned way. This year I haven't really dated but have met a few women, one at a wedding, one at a party, one at the gym and one on the street. Its surprisingly easy to just go up and chat and its really builds the confidence. Since the wedding back in Feb when I was there completely solo knowing only the groom, I have made a real effort to practice sparking up conversation with anyone (male, female, old, young).

How would you feel about trying that before wading into what sounds like the pretty murky waters of OLD?

[LH19]

Yo Maika, have you considered not doing OLD? When I am ready to start dating properly I am going to go down the road of trying to meet people the old fashioned way. This year I haven't really dated but have met a few women, one at a wedding, one at a party, one at the gym and one on the street. Its surprisingly easy to just go up and chat and its really builds the confidence. Since the wedding back in Feb when I was there completely solo knowing only the groom, I have made a real effort to practice sparking up conversation with anyone (male, female, old, young).

How would you feel about trying that before wading into what sounds like the pretty murky waters of OLD?

Or you can do both. Seems to me that the guys on here who online date get lots of dates. The ones who don’t do not.

It’s only murky because of CWs great outdoor adventures.

[bttrfly]

i'd say it murky because CW is color blind - he can't/won't/doesn't see the red flags the rest of us see, so we hear about the women other guys would pass on.

my guy friends report a mixed bag of reviews - some prefer meeting in the real world; others, one in particular, has the OLD down. Of course that particular male friend is a self-avowed player and none of these women seem to hang around for more than 6 months tops, if that.

[Maika]

OB:

Yeh I'd like to do the real life thing for sure too. I'm just struggling to think of opportunities where I would meet women naturally. It seems to be a huge creep factor approaching women in gyms and grocery stores and I definitely don't want to give off that vibe. One of the things I need to do is put myself out there more - not just for dates but to talk and be conversational with random people. I've shut myself in a lot, and the pandemic didn't help.

As LH says, I don't think it's harmful to also do the OLD route. I am not in a hurry to get into a R and so I can explore both options when the time comes. I need to be in more social environments for sure though - expand my social contacts and be out there.

Thx bttrfly for your take. I suspect there's a whole lot of diversity out there on OLD - from players to hookups to people wanting R's. I'll have a better sense of it when I do put myself out there.

In other news, I'm feeling a lot better about all of the other things that triggered me. I am finding almost one job every day that I can apply for and I'm putting in the applications and being diligent about it. Being active about this is reducing my anxiety.

[Traveler]

i'd say it murky because CW is color blind - he can't/won't/doesn't see the red flags the rest of us see, so we hear about the women other guys would pass on.

Yes, don't let my experiences with OLD scare you away! I find similar people online and offline.

I wrote a bunch about Ms. WoodlandNymph--younger, prettier, and requires more effort--and very little about another who agreed to a date who is the opposite. Was the adventure with Ms. WoodlandNymph worth 5 minutes calming her on the phone and 90min in person? You have the power to decide when you date. It's a Choose Your Own Adventure.

I don't understand that. What does that mean? Is it something like 'hey, ask me about how I managed to eat the behemoth cheeseburger at the county fair' - i know I'm sounding ridiculous here but scarfing down giant cheeseburgers might be someone's unique thing lol.

I suspect that would solicit replies like, "Tell me!" or "I'm curious.", which won't help you decide which of the many women writing you to prioritize. I usually choose something closer to, "Tell me your favorite xxx", where xxx is something that matters and requires a few words to reply to. You've made it easy to show they bothered to read your profile and the initial response's length and content will help you decide which of the many interested women to prioritize responding to.

[Traveler]

My biggest advice starting out is don't swipe too much. If only 33% of women in your chosen demographic (e.g., +/- 10yrs, iso relationship or marriage) are into you, in three dozen swipes you're going to have to make hard choices about which of the 12 women who eventually message you and 6 women you'd like to meet get dates first. Don't expect them all to wait. They'll correctly read that they're not at the top of your priority list and move on to other men for whom they are.

[LH19]

Try to use the following buzz words:
Spontaneous
Independent
Loyal
Intelligent
Funny

Women also respond if you make them laugh. I use this at the end of mine:

I spend a lot of time thinking about:
If it’s neither here nor there. Where in the heck is it?
What would I actually do for a Klondike bar?
If Cinderella’s shoe fit perfectly, how did it fall off in the first place?
If everyone Wang Chungs tonight, what would tomorrow be like?
Since the world didn’t end December 21st 2012, weren’t a lot of babies born September 20th, 2013?

If you build it they will come.

[Traveler]

Women also respond if you make them laugh. I use this at the end of mine:

Solid material.

[LH19]

Women also respond if you make them laugh. I use this at the end of mine:

Solid material.

Thanks CWs. It hasn't gotten me hot wood sex but I do alright lol.

[Maika]

Wow I'm getting some primo tips from everyone here. Thanks everyone. I got enough to jump right out of the gate and see what's what in the OLD world and how the scene is looking where I'm at.

[OnlyBent]

OB:

Yeh I'd like to do the real life thing for sure too. I'm just struggling to think of opportunities where I would meet women naturally. It seems to be a huge creep factor approaching women in gyms and grocery stores and I definitely don't want to give off that vibe. One of the things I need to do is put myself out there more - not just for dates but to talk and be conversational with random people. I've shut myself in a lot, and the pandemic didn't help.

I understand the creep factor concern and I would say that I would never approach a woman unless there had been obvious eye contact and/or a smile. Also I think how you approach is key. If you approach like you are trying to pick them up, that can come across as creepy or sleazy. But if you treat them like a normal human being, like you would anyone having a random/funny interaction with then it is unlikely to be unwelcome.

As an example, when I was at the party earlier in the year, there was a girl that I noticed straight away but I though she was 21 and her sister was 18. I still went and chatted with them, but with no intention, I thought she was waaaaay too young for me. Talking later to a friend who knew her, I found out she was 34, so we chatted again. Because I'd approached with no expectation the first time, she was really open and friendly. We ended up having a great night together.

[Ginger1]

I think the part of OLD that we kind of need at this age is knowing ( for the most part) that they are actually single. When you are young and in the wild, very few are married. Now, most are, and uiu might end up approaching married people.

In my area, we have a few FB singles groups. There is one big one that has events nearly every night if the week. They do big parties, dinners, drinks, different activities, hikes, whatever. I haven’t been to an event yet, but plan on it soon. A coworker joined the group and we are going to start going. She’s going to the Halloween party this coming Saturday, but I can’t make it. Couples have come out of this group, new friends have come out of the group. I did go on 2 dates with one guy from the group and 1 date with a guy from another ( the DM’d me)

Check it out in your area. Search groups on FB and put in “singles”

[bttrfly]

if you like outdoor activities stores like LL Bean and REI have one day workshops where you can learn something fun (often free, or nearly so) and you are guaranteed that if you meet someone there you at least have one common interest.

really being your authentic self is the best sell most people spot BS a mile away.

also every community around here has community education activities. ours has a corn hole competition and pickle ball to name a few group activities. you may want to check that out as well. the cost is usually very low.

OB's point of going in with no expectation is key. Go because of a genuine interest in the event and if you meet new people/friends/dates that's a bonus, right?

[kml]

The one and only time someone successfully picked me up in a store was Mr Big Lots. As I recall, when we first crossed paths, he may have smiled or made some innocuous friendly comment. Later in my shopping he turned up in my aisle again, looking like a sheepish ten year old boy, and asked me if I was by any chance a “single lady”. It was sweet and not creepy so I said yes.

The only cautionary part of the tale though - although he was terribly handsome, we probably were the least good fit of any of my dates. If I had met him through OLD he might not have made it through my screens, as I would have recognized how little we had in common.

[Maika]

OB:

The having no expectations with women - I've basically done that all my life lol. But that was out of insecurities and low self-worth. I can definitely have friendly chats with women and that's never been a huge issue. But, the advice is on point. I need to get out there and just be more social when the opportunity arises.

Ginger:

I've not been on FB for a long time, but I'll see what I can find on singles groups. There used to be Meetups, but that app is no longer available. I'll have to do some digging.

bttrfly:

good suggestions as well. we do have a city sports and fun activities groups and i need to see if they're back up now. you're right that being authentic is the key.

kml:

thanks for sharing that experience. i'll have to bring out some of my natural extroversion and see how that goes. I do have opportunities at the climbing gym, but i haven't been back since the pandemic. I can definitely start up convos there.

With all these excellent suggestions, I'm feeling pretty good about it

[Traveler]

@kml, that’s been my experience with random pick-ups as well. I remember a decade ago working up the nerve to ask out a cute woman who walked her dog in my neighborhood. She said yes! On our first date I learned she was “sorta” in a relationship but wanted out, my kids were a dealbreaker for her, and we had very few interests in common. I remember resolving never to do that again.

At the climbing gym is a good idea—you have at least one shared interest assuming you’re both either top-roping or bouldering, and the pauses between attempts give plenty of time to chat and assess compatibility before you make a move. If you always come at the same times, you tend to see the same people, too.

[AndrewP]

OB:

Yeh I'd like to do the real life thing for sure too. I'm just struggling to think of opportunities where I would meet women naturally. It seems to be a huge creep factor approaching women in gyms and grocery stores and I definitely don't want to give off that vibe. One of the things I need to do is put myself out there more - not just for dates but to talk and be conversational with random people. I've shut myself in a lot, and the pandemic didn't help.

I'm a pretty outgoing person for an introvert and will chat with almost anyone.

One thing that used to work for me was to grumble about my son living with me "because his mother was a much better cook". Established the bonafides as a single guy in a completely non-threatening way I thought and opened up a conversation. More than once I had sympathetic comments back about enjoying the weekend when the kids are with their dad etc. A couple of times it opened up the opportunity to ask for a date and once it even got a start on a relationship which unfortunately didn't work out.

If it's at pickle-ball, wherever, that sort of approach - or whatever works for you - can be a friendly opening point.

[Maika]

Thanks AndrewP - that's quite the line about cooking lol. I'd replace 'cooking' with 'baking' and we're on point - I'm a much better cook than exW

Small update:

So, I got a look at who the new dude on the scene is. ExW lives very close to me and I walked by her place and the new dude's car was there and I saw him getting out and fretting about a little bit. He didn't know who I was and I just kept walking on.

The dude is not on my level physically - he's way less attractive and has a bit of a beer belly; doesn't look like he's active or keeping up with how he looks and presents himself. Granted I saw him briefly and I don't know the dude and my judgment is just very superficial. So, saying all of that, I'm like - you are dating 'this' dude? maybe he's knocking it out in every other department, but oh well.

lilmanboy was a very similar type of dude and this just confirms what I had suspected all along - exW is still chockful of her insecurities and needs a dude who basically worships the ground she walks. Someone who she can lord over and feel better about herself - that she is more attractive, she is smarter, and a more together individual. I know where her wounds about this come from - not just from my emotional unavailability during the marriage, but also how she grew up and her past relationships before she met me. So, I feel for her for sure because she's hurting even if she can't see it.

At the same time, I felt totally good and couldn't care less about what she was doing with this dude. This revealed to me that my triggering was still all about me and I have a lot of work to do. If this dude was smoking alpha male, I am sure my current insecurities would've heightened. But because what I saw I wasn't impressed with, I could care less.

So, in conclusion:
exW is where she's at in her inner work - which is basically nowhere.
I have a lot of work to put in to not let this nonsense get to me like it did.
focus on me more, on her less

[Maika]

an addendum:

also, this made me realize how I so do not want to be with exW - she has none of the qualities and attributes that I want in a partner and she has done very little inner work. she wants to live some comfortable white picket fence life (nothing wrong with that), but that is so not the life I want.

I'm glad I never got an opportunity earlier to piece with her - it would've been a disaster. But I'd like to believe that after DBing and doing the inner work over the last few years, I would've ended it as soon as I realized it wasn't going to work. At least now, the silver lining is, that I don't have to go through that at all and be free to find a partner that meets what I am looking for.

And importantly, embody the qualities that I am looking for in a partner. I got some work to do in that area and it's exciting. The gym has frikkin' saved me and I'm starting to feel like my pre-covid self.

[Sage4]

Hi Maika! You sound like you're on a much more even keel right now, I am happy for you. But some thoughts:

The dude is not on my level physically - he's way less attractive and has a bit of a beer belly; doesn't look like he's active or keeping up with how he looks and presents himself. Granted I saw him briefly and I don't know the dude and my judgment is just very superficial. So, saying all of that, I'm like - you are dating 'this' dude? maybe he's knocking it out in every other department, but oh well.

But you knew this, didn't you? Of all the consistencies I read on these boards, our ex-partners affairing down is the most common of them all. So this should really come as no surprise to you and (as you accurately say later on) is more a reflection of what your internal narrative is about yourself than what is actually reality.

lilmanboy was a very similar type of dude and this just confirms what I had suspected all along - exW is still chockful of her insecurities and needs a dude who basically worships the ground she walks. Someone who she can lord over and feel better about herself - that she is more attractive, she is smarter, and a more together individual. I know where her wounds about this come from - not just from my emotional unavailability during the marriage, but also how she grew up and her past relationships before she met me. So, I feel for her for sure because she's hurting even if she can't see it.

A well-articulated, compassionate version of schadenfreude.

At the same time, I felt totally good and couldn't care less about what she was doing with this dude. This revealed to me that my triggering was still all about me and I have a lot of work to do. If this dude was smoking alpha male, I am sure my current insecurities would've heightened. But because what I saw I wasn't impressed with, I could care less.

Very, very wise and self-aware assessment. So if the day ever comes when OM actually is a smoking hot alpha, you will know how to navigate it. Because the truth is, 'it,' 'OM,' 'BD,' whatever is happening in our exes' lives, is not a reflection of us, but of them.

MOW in my situation has been a client for years. I first discovered her interest in my H when I was 6 weeks postpartum with our last child. We worked together and I saw a boob-heavy selfie she sent him (with a 'tee-hee-hee! I NEVER take selfies!'). Nursing our newborn, I told him I hadn't worked as hard as I did, sacrificed as much as I had, to let him blow up our business for some Jersey Shore bimbo and to keep it in his pants, forever, or I was out. He fell at my feet, told me she was insecure, funny but dumb and I had nothing to worry about because my beauty and intellect were galaxies beyond hers. There was enough truth here for me to believe him.

We had always been very adventurous in our lifestyle: dual citizens, traveling and living overseas frequently with our young family. And one time, when we were on a 6 month work trip in South America with our young children he said 'you know, client X would never do this. She thinks I am crazy for pulling the kids out of school and moving to S.A. She is so happy doing her sports thing and living her safe little isolated life. I am so lucky to have met and married such an adventurous, incredible wife who is willing to do these sorts of things with me. You are my dream partner.'

These things happen, for reasons that are beyond us as partners. Because it is not a reflection of us, but of them. Keep repeating this, ad nauseam. The OP is NOT a reflection of what you couldn't offer. The OP is a reflection of what our exes can't feel about themselves.

You've got this, Maika. Whether you got a glimpse of OM or not. You are good, you are worthy, you are better than what she has to offer. And you are certainly better than OM, so next time, walk on by that car without a second glance.

Sage xx

[LH19]

The dude is not on my level physically - he's way less attractive and has a bit of a beer belly; doesn't look like he's active or keeping up with how he looks and presents himself. Granted I saw him briefly and I don't know the dude and my judgment is just very superficial. So, saying all of that, I'm like - you are dating 'this' dude? maybe he's knocking it out in every other department, but oh well.

Nobody wants to be replaced by someone who they deem as better. Most judgements are made based on physical appearance.

lilmanboy was a very similar type of dude and this just confirms what I had suspected all along - exW is still chockful of her insecurities and needs a dude who basically worships the ground she walks. Someone who she can lord over and feel better about herself - that she is more attractive, she is smarter, and a more together individual. I know where her wounds about this come from - not just from my emotional unavailability during the marriage, but also how she grew up and her past relationships before she met me. So, I feel for her for sure because she's hurting even if she can't see it.

Or maybe she feels seen with him. Think back to Wayfarer's post.

At the same time, I felt totally good and couldn't care less about what she was doing with this dude. This revealed to me that my triggering was still all about me and I have a lot of work to do. If this dude was smoking alpha male, I am sure my current insecurities would've heightened. But because what I saw I wasn't impressed with, I could care less.

Ego is big player in the game.

So, in conclusion:
exW is where she's at in her inner work - which is basically nowhere.
I have a lot of work to put in to not let this nonsense get to me like it did.
focus on me more, on her less

This is based on the fact she's dating a dude with a dad bod?

also, this made me realize how I so do not want to be with exW - she has none of the qualities and attributes that I want in a partner and she has done very little inner work. she wants to live some comfortable white picket fence life (nothing wrong with that), but that is so not the life I want.

Slow down M. Like DNJ says "feelings are fleeting". Just a few days ago you were disappointed she didn't want to recon.

I'm glad I never got an opportunity earlier to piece with her - it would've been a disaster. But I'd like to believe that after DBing and doing the inner work over the last few years, I would've ended it as soon as I realized it wasn't going to work. At least now, the silver lining is, that I don't have to go through that at all and be free to find a partner that meets what I am looking for.

So you have an ability to predict the future????? What if in a year she came back completely remorseful?

And importantly, embody the qualities that I am looking for in a partner. I got some work to do in that area and it's exciting. The gym has frikkin' saved me and I'm starting to feel like my pre-covid self.

I am glad you are coming out of your funk. Seems like you may have gotten stuck during the pandemic
which is understandable especially the way your country handled it. Your future is bright my friend.

[Ginger1]

I think we often say our ex’s “affaired-down” based on physical appearance. I don’t think that’s fair. And I’m guilty of saying it. My ex’s OWW is short, very round, and just not all that attractive. Does that mean he chose the bottom of the barrel? No. He affaired-down in the sense that he chose a woman who had no self-esteem abs no regard for the fact my ex was married with a child on the way. She’s a very poor housekeeper, doesn’t cook, and is a hoarder. But she tolerates him and let’s him do whatever he wants. She cares for my kid though. That’s what’s important.

[LH19]

She’s a very poor housekeeper, doesn’t cook, and is a hoarder.

Don't forget she's afraid of balloons too.

[Ginger1]

And water on her face

[LH19]

And water on her face

I can only imagine where this came from.

[Maika]

We had always been very adventurous in our lifestyle: dual citizens, traveling and living overseas frequently with our young family. And one time, when we were on a 6 month work trip in South America with our young children he said 'you know, client X would never do this. She thinks I am crazy for pulling the kids out of school and moving to S.A. She is so happy doing her sports thing and living her safe little isolated life. I am so lucky to have met and married such an adventurous, incredible wife who is willing to do these sorts of things with me. You are my dream partner.'

I feel you on that Sage - the disconnect is real.

The OP is a reflection of what our exes can't feel about themselves.

very true and I can see that in my case. I've been suffering from the terrible human condition of making everything about 'me'. it's a smokescreen

Nobody wants to be replaced by someone who they deem as better. Most judgements are made based on physical appearance.

true true. I'm being quite judgmental here and putting this guy down so I can feel better. I'm also making inferences about his character based on his dad bod - doesn't take care of his appearance, isn't active etc.

Or maybe she feels seen with him. Think back to Wayfarer's post.

maybe, but I have doubts. Who goes rushing into a new R after the previous one ended 5 months ago - a R where exW had accepted a marriage proposal. What kinda dude decides to date someone like exW knowing all of this? like how many red flags do I need to plant in her front yard?

This is based on the fact she's dating a dude with a dad bod?

I am basing that on all of the info that I have, not just cuz he's got a big dad bod.

Slow down M. Like DNJ says "feelings are fleeting". Just a few days ago you were disappointed she didn't want to recon.

yeah i know. i appreciate the reminder. this all made me remember that feelings are not just fleeting, but it's based on my emotional insecurities that I need to attend to. I want to be in a place where she can have the most alpha dude in her life and it wouldn't shake me.

So you have an ability to predict the future????? What if in a year she came back completely remorseful?

I think I am just trying to get to a place where if that came to pass, I would have the right mind and emotional capacity to not take that path. Her behaviors don't indicate that she's emotionally stable and has the qualities that I want in a partner.

I think we often say our ex’s “affaired-down” based on physical appearance. I don’t think that’s fair. And I’m guilty of saying it. My ex’s OWW is short, very round, and just not all that attractive. Does that mean he chose the bottom of the barrel? No. He affaired-down in the sense that he chose a woman who had no self-esteem abs no regard for the fact my ex was married with a child on the way. She’s a very poor housekeeper, doesn’t cook, and is a hoarder. But she tolerates him and let’s him do whatever he wants. She cares for my kid though. That’s what’s important.

yeah i see what you're saying. I don't know anything about this dude aside from his physical appearance, so I have no idea if she's affaired down in the ways you're talking about. All I know is that the dude just walked past exW's red flags and that gives me some information about him. I'll find out more when the time is right. As long as he's good with my kids, I shouldn't care about anything less.

Ultimately, as LH and Sage pointed out, my ego and insecurities got in the way and I put way too much emphasis on insecure feelings than I should have. Which is a good indication of where I need to put my energies into. Which is: gym is back; diet is getting on point; i'm applying for jobs; need to restart my meditation practice; put some time into my hobbies; and then dating in 2022.

[Dawn70]

maybe, but I have doubts. Who goes rushing into a new R after the previous one ended 5 months ago - a R where exW had accepted a marriage proposal. What kinda dude decides to date someone like exW knowing all of this? like how many red flags do I need to plant in her front yard?

This will sound sarcastic, but it is a serious question. How do you KNOW dude knows all of that stuff about your XW? You aren't in his head or even in conversation with him, so you don't know what he knows or doesn't know about her past. He knows what she wants him to know, which may, indeed, be all that stuff you mentioned, but it is just as likely to be her white-washed version of it.

yeah i see what you're saying. I don't know anything about this dude aside from his physical appearance, so I have no idea if she's affaired down in the ways you're talking about. All I know is that the dude just walked past exW's red flags and that gives me some information about him. I'll find out more when the time is right. As long as he's good with my kids, I shouldn't care about anything less.

Again, going back to my previous question...how do you KNOW he walked past her red flags. Hindsight is 20/20, my friend, so what are clearly red flags to you now, might not be such clear red flags to him. Or again as I said above, maybe she's doing a lot of white-washing of the truth and he's buying it. Or heck, maybe he DOES know and he just doesn't care. The point I'm trying to drive home here is that none of it matters, because your concern shouldn't be on their relationship but his interaction with your kids. If he's good to the kids, it should be just whatever with her because their relationship is between them. We've talked about this red flag thing a lot on this side of the board and I think once we get post D, we have the value or recognizing red flags a little easier than when we were on the front end of the passionate times with a person.

I realize all of that is REALLY easy for me to say from the outside looking in and being a stranger but you and I are in different places and I'm long past my XH and have moved on to husband #2, so my viewpoint is likely a little different. You've mentioned in passing fleeting thoughts of reconciliation. That may affect why you care about the person she has chosen and compare yourself to them.

I'm kind of catching up on all of your stuff so I may have very likely missed something along the way, but it does sound like you are at least trying to focus in the right direction with getting your mind and body right, applying for jobs, GAL. It is a process for sure. And, because we are all different, it is a different process for all of us.

[LH19]

All I know is that the dude just walked past exW's red flags and that gives me some information about him.

So what are some of these red flags that dude is walking past? My guess is he may not know about them.

[Traveler]

Who goes rushing into a new R after the previous one ended 5 months ago - a R where exW had accepted a marriage proposal.

On Bustle, a dating expert’s rule of thumb is “ Theoretically, I would give two to three months for every year you all were together to process the loss of a relationship, grieve, and pick yourself back up.” However long or short it takes to process it is their real advice. I found several sites giving 3-6mo as a typical timeline for a 1-2yr relationship. So the answer to “Who would date.. after 5 months.. after 1-2yrs” is probably most people assuming they could get through a few dates without ranting about them.

[Maika]

Dawn:

Don't worry about not knowing the entirety of my sitch. I was pretty active from 2017 to the beginning of the pandemic and then I fell off the map and came back recently.

You're absolutely right that I have no idea what has transpired between them and what he knows and what she's told him etc etc. I am speculating based on what I would want to know if I was dating someone. And even then trying to figure out what I'm being told is not some white washed stuff. You're also right that all that matters to me is how he treats my kids. Everything else is, as Ted Lasso would say, "none of my beeswax."

I don't think I really wanted recon with her. I wanted her to want it and for me to turn it down. I guess I wanted to see what she had given up and admit it. But, I also know it's a bit delusional and fantasy land in my head for that to happen. Also, I think part of it is my desire to have a partner. I was just ready to dive into the dating scene and the covid happened. Now that things are opening up, that desire has come back.

LH:

Here are the main red flags:

- her previous R ended in spectacular fashion 5 months before she started dating again
- the previous R, where she had just accepted a marriage proposal and was 'in love'
- didn't set proper boundaries between the kids and the previous dude
- moved in within months of dating the previous dude
- hasn't taken accountability of what she's done and made changes
- went to therapy briefly as a stopgap measure for her R ending, but hasn't continued it
- hasn't dealt with her abandonment issues from childhood; insecurities about her appearance (almost all of us have these, but it has always seriously impacted her confidence and self-image/value)
- hasn't spent any real time alone outside of a R since late teens
- has major paranoia and anxiety issues that haven't been dealt with

CW:

hmm.. that's an interesting timeline. but as bttrfly had pointed out earlier - this timeline varies significantly.

[LH19]

Here are the main red flags:
- her previous R ended in spectacular fashion 5 months before she started dating again
- the previous R, where she had just accepted a marriage proposal and was 'in love'
- didn't set proper boundaries between the kids and the previous dude
- moved in within months of dating the previous dude
- hasn't taken accountability of what she's done and made changes
- went to therapy briefly as a stopgap measure for her R ending, but hasn't continued it
- hasn't dealt with her abandonment issues from childhood; insecurities about her appearance (almost all of us have these, but it has always seriously impacted her confidence and self-image/value)
- hasn't spent any real time alone outside of a R since late teens
- has major paranoia and anxiety issues that haven't been dealt with

Yeah pretty sure he would have no idea about any of these

[Traveler]

Yes, I may be colorblind, but his ability to read her would have to be preternatural to see these. Imagine how these would come up in conversation. Her: "I believe in therapy. I spent some time in therapy after my last relationship to process and learn where I could improve." I'm often shocked how many LBSs here won't even consider IC, and here she did, and you're expecting him to assess and red flag that she didn't have enough sessions after the end of a 1-2yr relationship.

[Ginger1]

Also, this isn’t even an OM. So, don’t start faulting the dude yet. He didn’t break up your M, you are divorced and this is just a boyfriend. Don’t put too much mental energy into him

[Maika]

LH:

There's at least a couplea red flags there that I think one should be able to pick up on.

CW:

I can totally see some of these coming up because I would ask about it. Wouldn't you ask Q's about someone's R history and what happened? And then wouldn't you follow up with Q's about it? Like if someone told me they BD'd their husband and are out dating 5 months out - Imma be outta there. I would also ask how they've been able to overcome what happened and what they did do - did they try IC? I feel like these are like basic Q's that I'd wanna know answers to.

Also, she went to IC because she was in a hole and had no way out - it was the last desperate measure to address her panic attacks and stratospheric levels of anxiety. The reasons why her previous R ended was 100% on her lack of judgment, decision-making, living in fantasy land, and inability to see without rose-tinted glasses. The most devastating part about it is that all of those things, her sheer stupidity and selfishness, had the largest negative impact on my D, and then subsequently my S.

After going through all this, I just can't imagine taking an inventory of the other person's life to assess whether it would be a good fit for you and them. And I don't mean being some investigator here, but thinking of it as doing due diligence. I would never in a million years have anyone come near my kids without doing this work.

Ginger:

Yeh you're absolutely right. I spun outta control and now I am getting my balance back. I am trying to refocus all my energy into my life and the kids.

[Ginger1]

Eh, who cares what the thought process is of her new boyfriend.

You and your kids are the important ones !

[Dawn70]

LH:

There's at least a couplea red flags there that I think one should be able to pick up on.

CW:

I can totally see some of these coming up because I would ask about it. Wouldn't you ask Q's about someone's R history and what happened? And then wouldn't you follow up with Q's about it? Like if someone told me they BD'd their husband and are out dating 5 months out - Imma be outta there. I would also ask how they've been able to overcome what happened and what they did do - did they try IC? I feel like these are like basic Q's that I'd wanna know answers to.

Also, she went to IC because she was in a hole and had no way out - it was the last desperate measure to address her panic attacks and stratospheric levels of anxiety. The reasons why her previous R ended was 100% on her lack of judgment, decision-making, living in fantasy land, and inability to see without rose-tinted glasses. The most devastating part about it is that all of those things, her sheer stupidity and selfishness, had the largest negative impact on my D, and then subsequently my S.

After going through all this, I just can't imagine taking an inventory of the other person's life to assess whether it would be a good fit for you and them. And I don't mean being some investigator here, but thinking of it as doing due diligence. I would never in a million years have anyone come near my kids without doing this work.

Ginger:

Yeh you're absolutely right. I spun outta control and now I am getting my balance back. I am trying to refocus all my energy into my life and the kids.

You THINK there are a couple of red flags someone would pick up. YOU can see them coming up because YOU would ask. Take a step back for just a second, Maika, and realize that you are not him and he is not you. You KNOW these red flags exist, so of course you see them. And, again, you have NO idea what she has told him, what he has asked, so it is possible that he's asked and she's given him the little Mary sunshine version. I don't read newcomers hardly at all anymore, but I remember when I first came here there was a lot of talk over there about mind reading and that seems to be what you are doing. You have no idea how or why this guy missed red flags that you see so clearly but you do NOT know his whole story nor her version of what she's shared. Like G said, this is only a boyfriend, so don't put so much energy on him and his relationship to her. If he is good to your kids, you are golden. You can't compare yourself to him (or him to you...however you want to say it) because that is just going to leave you frustrated. Y'all are 2 different people and your XW is not the same woman to you that she is to him. Let it go and focus on you and the kids.

[LH19]

LH:

There's at least a couplea red flags there that I think one should be able to pick up on.

CW:

I can totally see some of these coming up because I would ask about it. Wouldn't you ask Q's about someone's R history and what happened? And then wouldn't you follow up with Q's about it? Like if someone told me they BD'd their husband and are out dating 5 months out - Imma be outta there. I would also ask how they've been able to overcome what happened and what they did do - did they try IC? I feel like these are like basic Q's that I'd wanna know answers to.

Also, she went to IC because she was in a hole and had no way out - it was the last desperate measure to address her panic attacks and stratospheric levels of anxiety. The reasons why her previous R ended was 100% on her lack of judgment, decision-making, living in fantasy land, and inability to see without rose-tinted glasses. The most devastating part about it is that all of those things, her sheer stupidity and selfishness, had the largest negative impact on my D, and then subsequently my S.

After going through all this, I just can't imagine taking an inventory of the other person's life to assess whether it would be a good fit for you and them. And I don't mean being some investigator here, but thinking of it as doing due diligence. I would never in a million years have anyone come near my kids without doing this work.

Ginger:

Yeh you're absolutely right. I spun outta control and now I am getting my balance back. I am trying to refocus all my energy into my life and the kids.

You THINK there are a couple of red flags someone would pick up. YOU can see them coming up because YOU would ask. Take a step back for just a second, Maika, and realize that you are not him and he is not you. You KNOW these red flags exist, so of course you see them. And, again, you have NO idea what she has told him, what he has asked, so it is possible that he's asked and she's given him the little Mary sunshine version. I don't read newcomers hardly at all anymore, but I remember when I first came here there was a lot of talk over there about mind reading and that seems to be what you are doing. You have no idea how or why this guy missed red flags that you see so clearly but you do NOT know his whole story nor her version of what she's shared. Like G said, this is only a boyfriend, so don't put so much energy on him and his relationship to her. If he is good to your kids, you are golden. You can't compare yourself to him (or him to you...however you want to say it) because that is just going to leave you frustrated. Y'all are 2 different people and your XW is not the same woman to you that she is to him. Let it go and focus on you and the kids.

Nailed it!

[Maika]

Okay!!!

Let me heed the wise words of everyone who has taken the time to comment on this kerfuffle: I'm putting this new dude stuff to rest. As they say, may exW stew in the pot she's cooked.

Dawn - that 'mind reading' comment really caught me and struck a chord. It's something I absolutely loathe and here I'm doing the same. Thank you for pointing it out!

What's next? Well, I am making a kick ass dinner with kiddos tonight - Persian kebab, which I'm sure CW would enjoy. No eating off the skewer though - unless you wanna burn your lips and tongue off.

[LH19]

Also good luck finding a girl out there who doesn't have at least three of those "red flags".

[BL42]

Maika,

Also, this isn’t even an OM. So, don’t start faulting the dude yet. He didn’t break up your M, you are divorced and this is just a boyfriend. Don’t put too much mental energy into him

Yeh you're absolutely right. I spun outta control and now I am getting my balance back. I am trying to refocus all my energy into my life and the kids.

Don't worry about it. Give yourself a break on this one. Even if it's not an OM, I can imagine the rejection and lack of vindication still stings. It'll process through faster this time around and you'll get your balance back.

[Maika]

LH:

of course I'm going to run into red flags, but mostly I'd be concerned about how the other person is dealing with it or managing it. we all have emotional wounds from stuff and it's a case of what they're doing about it. it doesn't need to be resolved but they should be trying to figure it out. I'm sure that my emotional insecurities are red flags for other women, but I'm back trying to work at it. I'd like to see the same.

BL:

Thanks man! appreciate the words of encouragement and compassion. I think I'm pretty over it now. This board has a great way of knocking sense into these things. I just need to be more diligent about focusing on myself and the kids. And as I said, gym is back, diet is almost back - good baby steps.

[bttrfly]

Or maybe she feels seen with him. Think back to Wayfarer's post.

maybe, but I have doubts. Who goes rushing into a new R after the previous one ended 5 months ago - a R where exW had accepted a marriage proposal. What kinda dude decides to date someone like exW knowing all of this? like how many red flags do I need to plant in her front yard?

how do you know she told him about that? he may not know.

[bttrfly]

sorry should have just ditto'd Dawn - didn't see her post or your response. Here's where an edit button would be quite handy.

[Maika]

yeah it's totally true that he may not know. As Dawn pointed out, I am wildly speculating from my vantage point and it's not helping anyone.

[LH19]

yeah it's totally true that he may not know. As Dawn pointed out, I am wildly speculating from my vantage point and it's not helping anyone.

It's all good. The term red flag is so miss over used anyways. We are all middle age people with past relationships and traumas.

Time to put your ex in the rear view mirror and get ready to Bumble! I can't stress to you how may intelligent, attractive women are in your area that are looking for a in shape, non-addict, non-mental health dude. Like shooting fish in a barrel. lol

[Maika]

LH:

I'm on it bro! I'll report back on this seeming ocean of women that are out in my area lol.

[LH19]

LH:

I'm on it bro! I'll report back on this seeming ocean of women that are out in my area lol.

Can't wait! Just stay away from Mary from Toronto lol.

[bttrfly]

funny bumble story. it's the app i test drove for a month before deciding OLD wasn't my bag, but when I first started on there I happened to be talking to my ex roommate from my early 20s, who is one of my oldest and dearest friends. she's a lot different from me and a true child of the 70s and a free spirit. love her to bits, so her response when I explained that it's an app where the women make the first move REALLY surprised me:

"I dunno, B ... are you SURE you want to be with a guy who wants the woman to make the first move? That really says something about a guy."

[Dawn70]

yeah it's totally true that he may not know. As Dawn pointed out, I am wildly speculating from my vantage point and it's not helping anyone.

It's all good. The term red flag is so miss over used anyways. We are all middle age people with past relationships and traumas.

Time to put your ex in the rear view mirror and get ready to Bumble! I can't stress to you how may intelligent, attractive women are in your area that are looking for a in shape, non-addict, non-mental health dude. Like shooting fish in a barrel. lol

I don't know if the stars are aligned or if Mercury is in retrograde or what, but this is like the 3rd time today I have seen LH post something that I agree with. LOL I agree that the term red flag can me misused and overused. And, sometimes, as we have all seen on these boards, what some deem a red flag others say is only a yellow, so you have to see them how you see them, regardless of how others interpret them. For once, I also agree with his assessment that you need to just put your ex behind you and get ready to meet some ladies.

[LH19]

funny bumble story. it's the app i test drove for a month before deciding OLD wasn't my bag, but when I first started on there I happened to be talking to my ex roommate from my early 20s, who is one of my oldest and dearest friends. she's a lot different from me and a true child of the 70s and a free spirit. love her to bits, so her response when I explained that it's an app where the women make the first move REALLY surprised me:

"I dunno, B ... are you SURE you want to be with a guy who wants the woman to make the first move? That really says something about a guy."

Did you explain to her that Bumble is set up to keep BF protected from the unwanted D-pick out of no where?

[kml]

I would imagine that there might be a higher percentage of beta males on Bumble - but that being said, plenty of alpha males seem to go there too, because it's such a frustrating thing for so many men on most sites where men outnumber women and men get a lot fewer responses than women do. At least on Bumble if a woman contacts them they can assume she has a baseline level of interest.

[LH19]

Truthfully it’s only frustrating for a man if you have nothing to offer and are trying to date out of your league. Also since 95% of males are beta males myself included yeah you’re gonna see a high amount of betas on any site.

[Traveler]

I respect butterfly's friend's preference for dating men who prefer Tinder over dating men who prefer Bumble.

On Tinder-style apps, for men maybe 33-67% of your messages go into the void, and you have to send more frequent messages to stay on top of womens' inboxes since many men are messaging them.

On Bumble-style apps, for men nearly 100% of your messages get replies and you don't have to send reminders. It's time-efficiency and the in-app depth of conversations that makes me prefer Bumble.

Choose one in Fall. Choose one in Winter. Find you. (:

[kml]

Truthfully it’s only frustrating for a man if you have nothing to offer and are trying to date out of your league.

According to studies by OkCupid and others, men are almost always trying to date out of their league!

[LH19]

A quick google search will tell you that women will swipe on 1 out of every 200 guys. That tells me that they are trying to date out of their league too. That’s why some much frustration with OLD.

[kml]

When we looked specifically at sending the first message, we found one striking habit: everyone’s a reacher, meaning people tend to reach out to someone more attractive than they are. To put a number on it, men are reaching out to women 17 percentile points more attractive, and women contact men who are 10 percentile points more attractive.

Men more than women, according to OK Cupid. Their research also shows that women do not reach out first. When women do reach out first they get better connections.

[bttrfly]

funny bumble story. it's the app i test drove for a month before deciding OLD wasn't my bag, but when I first started on there I happened to be talking to my ex roommate from my early 20s, who is one of my oldest and dearest friends. she's a lot different from me and a true child of the 70s and a free spirit. love her to bits, so her response when I explained that it's an app where the women make the first move REALLY surprised me:

"I dunno, B ... are you SURE you want to be with a guy who wants the woman to make the first move? That really says something about a guy."

Did you explain to her that Bumble is set up to keep BF protected from the unwanted D-pick out of no where?

yup.
that answer didn't change her mind.

[bttrfly]

I respect butterfly's friend's preference for dating men who prefer Tinder over dating men who prefer Bumble.

On Tinder-style apps, for men maybe 33-67% of your messages go into the void, and you have to send more frequent messages to stay on top of womens' inboxes since many men are messaging them.

On Bumble-style apps, for men nearly 100% of your messages get replies and you don't have to send reminders. It's time-efficiency and the in-app depth of conversations that makes me prefer Bumble.

Choose one in Fall. Choose one in Winter. Find you. (:

I never said she preferred Tinder. She against OLD as a whole and an app where men are willing to wait for women in particular. I don't know what made you bring Tinder into the conversation as I didn't reference it in any way.

[LH19]

Well to be fair, men have to wait for women to reach out on Bumble. Again the app was made so women have control over who is messaging them.

Sometimes I think CWs likes to belt out statistics.

[Traveler]

. I don't know what made you bring Tinder into the conversation as I didn't reference it in any way.

I mentioned Tinder because if your friend is against apps where women make the first move, Tinder is the main alternative. I didn't realize your friend prefers not to online date. That makes more sense. More of us alpha-types offline.

[Maika]

okay! I'll start a new thread when I start dating. This one has run its course. I'm doing good and it's been a wild ride since last week. Thanks everyone for knocking good sense into me.

[OnlyBent]

Also since 95% of males are beta males myself included yeah you’re gonna see a high amount of betas on any site.

This comment surprised me!

[Maika]

New Thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2926996#Post2926996