Previous Threads:WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Don't Want Divorce (1)WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Don't Want Divorce (2)WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Don't Want Divorce (3)WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Divorced Anyway (4)Summary:ExW & I (late 30s) were together 9 years, married 7, with two young children (then S4/D1, now S6/D3). Less than 2 years ago we were vacationing as a family in Disney; two weeks later BD & discover her affair w/married co-worker. For months I pursued, chased, begged, snooped...etc. I was home putting the kids to bed and getting them ready in the morning while she's out running around on me. Affair w/OM1 blows up when work & OM1's wife find out, but instead of working on the marriage she starts up w/OM2, moves out, files for divorce, moves OM2 right in (including with my kids). We separated 14 months ago and the divorce legally finalized 4 months ago. She's been living with OM2 for over a year now, and is about to move across the street from his sister.
I'm doing much better than a year ago. I have a fantastic family support system and good friends. I was always a great dad but have dedicated myself to being their rock, back on track at work, coaching S6's sports teams, playing sports myself, started grad school classes, projects around the house...etc. Made it a point not to date until after D was official - moral thing for me and my kids - but really haven't done much there since the D either. Still have points of anger I'm dealing with. I'm having a tough time swallowing the pill of OM2 living with and influencing my kids.
Starting my latest thread here in "Surviving the Big D", jumping over from "Newcomers" as was suggested in my last thread, now that the D is official and I'm dealing with post-D parenting issues and anger issues w/ExW and OM2 living with my kids.
Would appreciate any and all feedback folks are willing to give!
welcome to this side of the board!!
it's pretty nice hanging around here; much different vibe than newcomers as I am sure you've noticed. I'm sure emotions will come up as you navigate the schedule change with the kids. As you know, this is a good place to come and just vent.
Good job focusing on your kids.
As far as OM2 - the blame is on your ex much more than him. He didn’t break up your marriage. He’s just a dumb guy who is with a cheater and believed the story she fed him.
You’ve got a lot going on for you - attentive dad, pursuing grad school, etc etc. When the time comes, the right woman will consider you a catch. The challenge for you will be to figure out what red flags you missed with your wife, so that you don’t pick the same kind of person again.
welcome to this side of the board. echoing Kml awesome job putting the kids as priority. The rest, so they say will come in time. You do you and great things will happen. xo
Welcome to the light side!
Following what those before me have said, great job putting kids first...as it should be. As you continue to process, heal, move forward, things WILL get easier. Time, as they say, heals all wounds.
Maika/kml/bttrfly/Dawn70,
Thanks for the welcome and words of encouragement.
Following up from the end of my last thread...
Believe it or not, there comes a point where you hope your ex and her OM do not implode...It takes years and a lot of painful emotional work to get where I am. Not everyone does. Everyone doesn’t even have to. I still have triggers, they are just managed well.
Yes, I agree with Ginger that you want that outcome eventually for the well being of the kids. But it takes a lot of work and time, and there are still triggers that need to be managed. The reason I wished that exW's R with lilmanboy would implode is because she rushed into everything and wanted to create some fantasy blended family and I didn't think it was going to be a good thing for the kids. And then it did implode because lilmanboy is an a$$hole.
I can believe it. I recognize that over time my anger and triggers will likely diminish and my perspective on Ex & OM2 imploding will likely evolve over time, I'm just not there yet. It's still raw. My exW certainly rushed in to create a fantasy new family with OM2 & the kids as well. Definitely question OM2's morals sleeping with a married woman and living with her kids, plus some social media posts I saw, but not clear he's an a$$hole like lilmanboy. I do want more stability for the kids at some point and could see myself getting along with a new man in their lives in the future, but greatly prefer someone who did not sleep with my wife and move in with my kids right off the bat. I guess time will tell.
By the way, my biggest hurt and pain came from the thought of another woman raising my child. Her thinking as her as her mother. And guess what. My daughter knows exactly who her mother is and parents are and what roles everyone has. Your kids know you are dad and always will. No if’s ands or buts about that
There is no OM or OW that can replace you as the primary parent, so I have no concerns about feeling less than. My relationship with my kids is rock solid and there is no other man that can usurp that.
Yes, my biggest hurt and pain at this point is the thought of OM2 raising my child as well. I'm doing everything I can to be their rock. Your comments on the kids knowing who their actual parent is are encouraging. Thanks for that.
Something about the ExW needing to start on a level playing field seems like justice.
I feel you on that. exW's R imploding was good justice in my eyes. Whatever fantasy land and fog that she was in was ripped apart in a matter of days. maybe now she can look back at our marriage and BD and see her part in the mess she made.
Indeed.
An example of a trigger is last night ExW wanted to video chat with the kids. We've both been good in that respect and always facilitate the call with the kids when request. I try to stay away and do my thing around the house so I'm not listening in or interfering, but it's hard with such young kids. D3 climbs off the bed and runs to me and pulls my hand to try to get me to join the call so she can show off her new pet. I'm not sure how to deal with that situation, as she's excited and wants me to join in her happiness, but I don't want to be part of a video call with ExW. Anyway, I overheard ExW all happy and cheery asking S6 "Do you want to say hi to OM2?!?"...that hurts.
Hello BL
Yes, it hurts.
D3 climbs off the bed and runs to me and pulls my hand to try to get me to join the call so she can show off her new pet. I'm not sure how to deal with that situation, as she's excited and wants me to join in her happiness, but I don't want to be part of a video call with ExW.
How to deal?
You excitedly join your daughter and be part of her life!
You are her Dad! There is nothing you cannot do! In her eyes you are almost equal to God. Never let her down.
Afterwards you can vent, cry, get angry, whatever. Yet in the moment, see the blessing that is right in front of you. You do that and it will become that. Actually, you will become; and then influence the situation.
Modified for next time:
D3 climbs off the bed and runs to me and pulls my hand to join the call so she can show off her new pet. She's excited and wants me to join in her happiness. I’m so lucky she wants me to be part of a video call with her Mom.
You can uncouple the triggers associated with such blessed joyful daughter time. It’s within your control and influence.
D
I have nothing more to add to what DnJ said. I co-sign 100%.
I want you to know that I feel your pain because I've also gone through it. I didn't show any of my true emotions to the kids and just took time when I could to let it out in private.
You gotta just get into 'Dad' mode and not 'You' mode. The You will have time to process and recuperate. I know it sounds easy to say but I know it's not easy to execute - it $uck$ big effin' time, but you do it because you're the Dad. It's part of our job description.
One of the things that I keep in mind with my kids is that whenever they want to do something with me or show me or whatever it is that they want my attention, it is a 'bid for connection'. Esther Perel talks about it. And so, I just remind myself that my kids are just trying to connect with me and be closer to me to show me whatever it is they're super into right now. And I get super into it for them, even if it hurts in the moment.
DnJ,
How to deal? You excitedly join your daughter and be part of her life!
You're right. Guess I got caught up in the awkward moment instead of caught up in sharing D3's happiness. I won't let that happen next time.
You are her Dad! There is nothing you cannot do! In her eyes you are almost equal to God. Never let her down.
Thanks. Appreciate that sentiment. I won't.
Afterwards you can vent, cry, get angry, whatever. Yet in the moment, see the blessing that is right in front of you. You do that and it will become that. Actually, you will become; and then influence the situation.
Didn't need to get angry or cry. Maybe just vent here lol. D3 reaching out didn't hurt so much - just unsure of whether to join in - the part that hurt was hearing ExW ask S6 so happily if he wanted to say hi to OM2. But I kept it to myself and didn't show the hurt.
Maika,
I want you to know that I feel your pain because I've also gone through it.
Thanks, it [censored].
You gotta just get into 'Dad' mode and not 'You' mode. The You will have time to process and recuperate. I know it sounds easy to say but I know it's not easy to execute - it $uck$ big effin' time, but you do it because you're the Dad. It's part of our job description.
I like the "Dad mode" mindset. That's a great way to frame it. It's part of our job description.
One of the things that I keep in mind with my kids is that whenever they want to do something with me or show me or whatever it is that they want my attention, it is a 'bid for connection'. Esther Perel talks about it. And so, I just remind myself that my kids are just trying to connect with me and be closer to me to show me whatever it is they're super into right now. And I get super into it for them, even if it hurts in the moment.
There's a great quote I can't find at the moment, but it goes something like: "You can choose to be interested in your kid's life, but you can't choose what they're interested in." Wish I had the exact words, but that always stuck out with me. For example, I've never been into fishing but S6 tried it at a friend's lake house during the Summer of separation and really liked it and said he wanted to do it again, so I bought him a real rod and reel for his birthday and we went out several times this Summer and he's caught a few fish he's so excited about, so it became a cool bonding activity.
Made it a point not to date until after D was official - moral thing for me and my kids - but really haven't done much there since the D either.
Interested to hear more about this BL. What has happened? Are you planning to think about dating more going forward?
I do want more stability for the kids at some point and could see myself getting along with a new man in their lives in the future, but greatly prefer someone who did not sleep with my wife and move in with my kids right off the bat.
Completely understandable, I feel the same way. At the same time knowing it is completely out of our control.
There's a great quote I can't find at the moment, but it goes something like: "You can choose to be interested in your kid's life, but you can't choose what they're interested in." Wish I had the exact words, but that always stuck out with me. For example, I've never been into fishing but S6 tried it at a friend's lake house during the Summer of separation and really liked it and said he wanted to do it again, so I bought him a real rod and reel for his birthday and we went out several times this Summer and he's caught a few fish he's so excited about, so it became a cool bonding activity.
^^^^^This. Not only is it fun and rewarding at the time, but will continue to pay dividends as they grow up. Keep it up BL, awesome stuff on the parenting front!
Made it a point not to date until after D was official - moral thing for me and my kids - but really haven't done much there since the D either.
Interested to hear more about this BL. What has happened? Are you planning to think about dating more going forward?
Nothing serious. Think I mentioned in my previous thread I signed up for a few dating apps a month or two after the D finalized, matched with a few woman, and met up with one. I had a really awkward feeling driving to the date (first and only post-D), but ended up having a good time/conversation, although she told me about how she BD'd her Ex which was a red flag for me now. She invited me over to her place a week or two later and we hooked up. It was fun but to be honest probably weren't a great match. The texts fell off on both sides and I ended up seeing her out on a date with another guy a few weeks later. I wasn't upset or anything - no big deal. I've done some dating app swiping since, and am open to more dates if it feels right, but really haven't made it a priority. Kids are #1, then work, grad school, GAL...etc.
There's a great quote I can't find at the moment, but it goes something like: "You can choose to be interested in your kid's life, but you can't choose what they're interested in." Wish I had the exact words, but that always stuck out with me. For example, I've never been into fishing but S6 tried it at a friend's lake house during the Summer of separation and really liked it and said he wanted to do it again, so I bought him a real rod and reel for his birthday and we went out several times this Summer and he's caught a few fish he's so excited about, so it became a cool bonding activity.
^^^^^This. Not only is it fun and rewarding at the time, but will continue to pay dividends as they grow up. Keep it up BL, awesome stuff on the parenting front!
Thanks OB! Love those kiddos and really do feel like I'm crushing it as a dad, especially considering the circumstances.
Adding to my GAL, I joined a gym with a buddy this week.
It's good to have someone else to go with to hold me accountable on going and also guide me through a routine as he knows what he's doing. Chest & back the first night, arms (bis & tris) last night, and legs next session...plus some abs worked in. It's been many years since I went to a gym to lift weights. I'm definitely sore, but feel good about it.
Probably should've gotten into this 6 months or a year ago when I was super slim due to my "sitch weight loss" (lost 30lbs; have gained back 10-15) - I'd be ripped right now - but had a lot to deal with and was focusing on the kids. Plus there's no time like the present, right?
I'm probably above average physical condition relative to my age, but it's time to really get in shape. Many on this forum have suggested it to work out the emotions as well, so hoping it helps there too.
yep. good call on that GAL BL. And you know what? Putting the kids first is always the right call imho, so good call on that as well !!!
I had a really awkward feeling driving to the date (first and only post-D), but ended up having a good time/conversation
This will happen for awhile. Then you won't blink an eye anymore.
Although she told me about how she BD'd her Ex which was a red flag for me now. [/quote
Interesting that it's a red flag for you but you slept with her anyways. Like Wayfarer told Bent, don't project your pain and trauma on to other people.
She invited me over to her place a week or two later and we hooked up. It was fun but to be honest probably weren't a great match.
Getting the first one out of the way is a big step. The next ten will be a lot easier lol.
The texts fell off on both sides and I ended up seeing her out on a date with another guy a few weeks later. I wasn't upset or anything - no big deal.
Why would you be?
I've done some dating app swiping since, and am open to more dates if it feels right, but really haven't made it a priority. Kids are #1, then work, grad school, GAL...etc.
Sounds like you got your priorities in order BL.
BTW I think you give really good advice on other peoples threads. Keep it up. You are doing great!
All good stuff.
Im going to give you a little info from a long time divorced long time single woman on these apps dating through every stage you can imagine .
DO NOT put “my kids are my number one priority” on your dating profile. Ever. It’s a hard swipe left for me. And I am a pretty dedicated mother single parenting for 14 years .
Kids are always a priority. I feel like should be a given and never announced. Parents prioritize their kids. Duh. Some crappy parents out there that don’t, but you’ll see that through action.
Take care of your kids take care of you, and when you feel like dating is something you want to do and dedicate some time to do it right, go for it . And when you do, remember it’s not making something else not a priority in your life. It’s making room for another one !
Hmmm...interesting, Ginger. I didn't really date guys with younger kids (because of my age and because I avoided guys who had young children as I really wasn't interested in reliving that phase of child-rearing - I would have been ok with someone with teens). However, if I had read a profile where a guy said his kids were his number one priority, that would have been a plus not a negative. I still remember telling something about my ex to my first guy I dated after my divorce, and he was shocked at how my ex behaved as a parent. His kids were in their late 20's/early 30's at that time, and he couldn't fathom my ex's selfishness in regards to our kids. I found that REALLY attractive!
Hmmm...interesting, Ginger. I didn't really date guys with younger kids (because of my age and because I avoided guys who had young children as I really wasn't interested in reliving that phase of child-rearing - I would have been ok with someone with teens). However, if I had read a profile where a guy said his kids were his number one priority, that would have been a plus not a negative. I still remember telling something about my ex to my first guy I dated after my divorce, and he was shocked at how my ex behaved as a parent. His kids were in their late 20's/early 30's at that time, and he couldn't fathom my ex's selfishness in regards to our kids. I found that REALLY attractive!
One would think, right? I used to think so. But the men who just had to mention their kids are their priority in their dating profile ( why should it even have to be said) we’re not good potential partners at all.
Most used their kids as a way of avoiding being a good partner. It was more of an announcement of “maybe I’ll fit you in somewhere” the ones who made the grand announcement also feel like only their lives are appointment , they act like they are the only one who have ever been a single parent and men seems to want some extra kudos for a being a decent parent. My ex boyfriend M just kept going on and on about how his son is first and what a great dad he was and obsessed over his kid and criticized the parenting of strangers. I slowly realized he was insecure in his role and really wanted to be his sons favorite over his mom.
The guy who ended up being a patient in my hospital going through severe alcohol withdrawals and liver failure also went on and on and on about his kids are number 1 and what an awesome parent he was. He ended up losing his kids for a while.
One guy I am dating is a father to a 3 and 5 year old. He has 50% custody, never goes on and on about being an awesome dad, but he low key is. He’s just being a dad. He doesn’t need or want accolades. He is just a great dad because he is and doesn’t need to prove it to anyone. We were hanging out the other night and he was telling me about how he loses patience sometimes and looks forward to his day off after 5 days on because he needs it. He doesn’t pretend like he loves every minute of it. He’s real.
And that’s what I find really really sexy
I can’t edit. Arrrgggghhhh!
LH19,
The texts fell off on both sides and I ended up seeing her out on a date with another guy a few weeks later. I wasn't upset or anything - no big deal.
Why would you be?
I wouldn't. There's just a lot of attachment issues mentioned on the board, so thought I'd point out I wasn't worried about it "not working out" with very the first person I went out with post-D.
I've done some dating app swiping since, and am open to more dates if it feels right, but really haven't made it a priority. Kids are #1, then work, grad school, GAL...etc.
Sounds like you got your priorities in order BL.
BTW I think you give really good advice on other peoples threads. Keep it up. You are doing great!
Thanks LH!
Ginger1/kml,
DO NOT put “my kids are my number one priority” on your dating profile. Ever. It’s a hard swipe left for me.
However, if I had read a profile where a guy said his kids were his number one priority, that would have been a plus not a negative.
I don't have that explicitly written in my profile and don't include pictures of my kids either. I've seen some women who do and don't necessarily view it good or bad, though maybe to Ginger1's point if someone's going out of their way to make a point of it maybe they're over-compensating? Hopefully it's assumed the kids come first; I've no interest in dating any mother who does not make her children #1 in her life. I do list "divorced" and "have children" in my status...figure if people are specifically filtering out on those categories than why waste my time?
Take care of your kids, take care of you, and when you feel like dating is something you want to do and dedicate some time to do it right, go for it . And when you do, remember it’s not making something else not a priority in your life. It’s making room for another one !
Good advice - thanks!
I didn't really date guys with younger kids (because of my age and because I avoided guys who had young children as I really wasn't interested in reliving that phase of child-rearing - I would have been ok with someone with teens).
I imagine me having two young kids will limit the dating pool a bit. That's understandable. While dating before married I certainly preferred meeting someone without kids. Now I'm on the other side of the table (without any choice in the matter I must say). It is what it is. It seems like a single mom may be a better fit and more synched up with my situation than someone without kids. Time will tell though...who knows.
One guy I am dating is a father to a 3 and 5 year old. He has 50% custody, never goes on and on about being an awesome dad, but he low key is. He’s just being a dad. He doesn’t need or want accolades. He is just a great dad because he is and doesn’t need to prove it to anyone. We were hanging out the other night and he was telling me about how he loses patience sometimes and looks forward to his day off after 5 days on because he needs it. He doesn’t pretend like he loves every minute of it. He’s real.
And that’s what I find really really sexy
What parents don't have their patience tested once in a awhile! lol. I definitely prefer my time with the kids than without, and hate when they have to leave, but I'd be lying if there weren't sometimes a sense of relief to have a few days to myself - single parenting can certainly be intense!
I didn't really date guys with younger kids (because of my age and because I avoided guys who had young children as I really wasn't interested in reliving that phase of child-rearing - I would have been ok with someone with teens).
I imagine me having two young kids will limit the dating pool a bit. That's understandable. While dating before married I certainly preferred meeting someone without kids. Now I'm on the other side of the table (without any choice in the matter I must say). It is what it is. It seems like a single mom may be a better fit and more synched up with my situation than someone without kids. Time will tell though...who knows.
Well if May mostly restrict your choices in older women. Bear in mind I was in my fifties, my kids were in college - I just wasn’t looking to date a 50 year old guy with a five year old kid.
(PS don’t know why the quote within the quote didn’t copy right)
Yeah, you’ll be fine with younger women.
I’m 41 with a 14 year old. I’ve been raising her as a divorced single parent since she was a baby. I’ve loved another man’s child .I adore kids and they adore me .
I am only dating this guy with young kids because it’s casual and not going anywhere and I’ll never meet his kids. I don’t want to get attached to anyone’s kids anymore. I also get freedom to move in 4 years. Freedom to travel. My chance for once to focus on me. That’s the path I want to take.
But you mentioned you are almost 40. Women in their 30’s for the most part have no problem dating a guy with younger children. Even 40’s because a lot of women had their kids a bit later in life. I’m sure you’ll have no problem finding dates when you are ready to invest.
I agree with Ginger. Having kids won’t be an issue for most. The only women who might think it is a problem are the ones who are still looking to have kids of their own and worry that would not be an option with someone who already has them. I think they would be in the minority though. Once you decide you want to date seriously, I think you will have plenty of options. It gets a bit dicier once you hit your fifties.
I agree with what Ginger said bragging about kids being the number one priority in their dating profile being a hard pass. It has been my experience when someone tries really hard to “prove” they are a certain way, they are generally the opposite of what they’re trying to prove. Guys who insist repeatedly that they’re nice guys while being rude to a waitress, bosses who swear they aren’t micro managers while standing over you trying to direct every move. I didn’t necessarily avoid dating profiles of men who had children but I did avoid those who spent a lot of time talking about prioritizing their kids (they SHOULD prioritize them so that kind of goes without saying in my mind) or being a good/great dad were ones I’d pass on because they typically were more talk and less action where their kids were concerned. Of course I would want to know if a guy had kids but in dating, it is my opinion, the initial stages are about getting to know each other so occasional chats about kids is fine but too much of a good thing is a good thing, so to speak. Guys who proclaimed themselves great dads a lot in profiles kind of made me think of one of my dad’s favorite phrases about someone being all hat and no cattle.
Pretty good (but hectic) weekend of GAL...
Friday night attend a concert with some friends. The band was pretty popular a decade or two ago, and they put on an entertaining show.
Saturday morning walked the homecoming parade with S6's team I'm coaching and then rushed over to set up the fields for a tournament we hosted, which was a bit stressful but went smoothly. I love volunteering for these activities which keep me engaged with S6 even on days during "ExW's week". It's helped me meet a lot of parents from school too. A light switch must have gone off in his head because he really turned it on, got aggressive, and excelled on the field which was great to be a part of :-) Later that night I attended a good friend's birthday party, with catering and a live band.
Sunday went for a run then spent most of the day tackling the midterm for my grad school class which was due at midnight. I got it submitted but will see how the grading goes. I hated working on it during a beautiful weekend day, and it really got me wondering if I want to spend the next 2-3 years on the degree and spending my limited free time virtually behind a computer screen (which I already do for my job), as opposed to other more physical/social activities. Need to finish up this class regardless, but have to do some thinking about next semester.
Monday I took an impromptu day off work as the kids did not have school and we had a great time w/some "Fall activities".
Well - what's the benefit of the graduate degree? Will it earn you more money? Get you into a different field that you think you might like better? Or is it mostly window dressing that won't actually impact your career arc?
kml,
Well - what's the benefit of the graduate degree? Will it earn you more money? Get you into a different field that you think you might like better? Or is it mostly window dressing that won't actually impact your career arc?
There wouldn't be any immediate direct impact. It's not like my company will automatically bump up my salary once I complete the degree. It would be a resume booster and therefore may lead to different opportunities, better my career, or improve my earnings over time, but there's also a chance it'd ultimately be window dressing...tough to say. They do pay for the tuition, so it's the opportunity cost of my time not my money. Honestly part of my thinking in applying was that it'd be intellectually stimulating and self-improving. But stuck inside behind a computer on a gorgeous Fall weekend day I was thinking maybe I should be outside hiking, running, playing golf or tennis, or meeting up with friends LOL
kml,
Well - what's the benefit of the graduate degree? Will it earn you more money? Get you into a different field that you think you might like better? Or is it mostly window dressing that won't actually impact your career arc?
There wouldn't be any immediate direct impact. It's not like my company will automatically bump up my salary once I complete the degree. It would be a resume booster and therefore may lead to different opportunities, better my career, or improve my earnings over time, but there's also a chance it'd ultimately be window dressing...tough to say. They do pay for the tuition, so it's the opportunity cost of my time not my money. Honestly part of my thinking in applying was that it'd be intellectually stimulating and self-improving. But stuck inside behind a computer on a gorgeous Fall weekend day I was thinking maybe I should be outside hiking, running, playing golf or tennis, or meeting up with friends LOL
I know I'm very biased about this particular subject since I am in the education field, but I say go forward with it. I got the opportunity to get my master's and have my company at the time pay for it and I got a pay bump upon completion, but I fully intend to go for a Ph.D. at some point, probably in the relatively near future. It won't necessarily benefit me work-wise, but it has LONG been a goal of mine to have a Ph.D. so I will. Of course, since I work at a university, as long as I choose to matriculate here, I can get a significant cost reduction as an employee.
While homework might have sucked this weekend, that won't always be the case, don't let one wistful day of what if derail a bigger goal.
Yeah - if they're paying your tuition, and it will widen or improve your options in the future, I say go for it.
The thread in Newcomers is almost closing so I thought I'd get back to you about the show here.
Spoilers..................
I thought the last episode was the least well-written one out of all of them. I didn't buy it. I can see that he was jaded and not invested in being a 'good' partner - having affairs and lying to his wife etc. I also question if he learned anything during therapy and if he truly did some inner work on himself. To turn around and basically do the same thing to his now wife seemed like he's not learned anything. He got into marriage because she got pregnant and he wanted a child - like that's just so not stand up behavior or even learning from his mistakes. He's totally okay being the WAS and inflicting the same damage that he experienced. That's a terrible message from all of this.
Like I would never do that - I'd rather stay single or not get into something serious if I wasn't going to truly commit to that person.
I could see her wanting to spend time alone and not be involved in anything serious. The scene with her OM was quite good - it would've been cathartic for the LBS to see that the exW was done with OM and had no interest in anything long term.
But I still felt that them hooking up was on the unrealistic side. I mean I'm sure it happens, but I think it's less frequent.
Overall, the show is good, but that last episode kinda didn't work for me.
Maika,
Glad you followed up. Wish that thread hadn't gotten locked down because we were having some interesting discussion on the topic.
I thought the last episode was the least well-written one out of all of them. I didn't buy it.
I agree w/your general assessment. He's gotten jaded and become a bad actor himself. I'd like to think you and I wouldn't do that either. I agree them hooking up was farfetched - that happening in my sitch seems ludicrous.
Imo the BD episode was most spot on and triggering - so powerful - any friend of family member who wants to understand what we experienced should it.
I just watched it last night...after finding out my S is being introduced to OM soon. Not sure why I put myself through that but anyway...
I'm with you two on the episode. I didn't get as much out of it and it was by far the least engaging of the 5 episodes. My main thought is how incredibly sad for him that he ended up like that. The previous two episodes I was pretty happy for him because I thought he had grown and it was like at least he got something out of a cr@ppy situation. But he didn't. I can never imagine treating a new partner like he did her after having gone through all this. At least she had gotten to some semblance of peace in her life, although I don't think she was actually happy.
Were they really meant for each other? Why was she still seeing him? Was it to still hold on to part of what they had? Or was she doing it to show him that he hadn't changed for the better after all and was no better then she was?
Yeah totally agree with you OB!
He showed zero growth and that he was okay and willing to do the same that he went through as an LBS. That other woman, his now wife, is going to encounter a world of hurt when she finds out about the affairs and that he doesn't really care that much about her. How can he put her through such crap after what he was put through? I just shake my head at it. Definitely not something most LBS here would do.
It's hard to say if they were meant for each other. I find the concept of the 'one' or 'soulmate' hard to grasp - I think there's tons of options for each person and it's how we can make it work.
I think she was still seeing him because she has a need to be wanted at some level. That he can be Plan B and she can eat the cake and have it too. I guess familiarity makes things easier too.
Part of it could be that they are the same underneath - but I think that's a pretty callous view. He had the opportunity to be much better but he chose not to be that way. I think she's trying to find peace but you're right that she's not happy.
I think a better ending would've been if she'd ended up with someone else, or alone for a while, or being a serial dater. All of those are plausible options depending on where she was with her emotional and personal growth. Ideally he would be in the same place too - finding a co-parenting rhythm or at least parallel parenting.
He had way too much fondness for her throughout, even when she was pushing him to the limits and that was weak behavior. He salvaged it in episode 4 when he rejected her idea of trying again. I thought he'd turned a good corner there.
I think till episode 4 the show was very strong, but the last episode was much less believable.
I feel like the final episode was an ode to 'the grass is not greener' to either side.
It perfected the 'Hero's Journey' though: W realizes that she might not ever be truly happy (happiness comes from within!). H realizes that he hadn't overcome his orthodox past (full pendulum swing in his narrative, from being the 'left the church but I'm still a good orthodox boy at heart' in his M with Mira; to the guy who says he doesn't believe in all of that and just wants carnal pleasure at the expense of his current, religious W). Let's allow them to switch roles! Who is more pure at the end now?
Our lesson from this is simple: do good, be authentic to oneself and nothing you see outside of you is a reflection of you, merely of the other.
Loved the show overall. Though I had wished my initial BD was an elegant and eloquent as what I saw.
Yeah I loved the show too. My BD was in the exact same setting - the dining table next to the kitchen and it happened in a very similar fashion, however not anywhere as close to eloquence as the show. I also didn't have those heart to heart talks that dominated the middle episodes after BD.
What show are you guys talking about here???
What show are you guys talking about here???
HBO's "Scenes from a Marriage" on HBO.
There was a thread in Newcomers about Netflix's "Sex/Lives" which also touched on "Marriage Story" and “The Killing of Two Lovers”, and eventually turned a discussion on the HBO adaptation of Swedish miniseries by Ingmar Bergman, but the thread hit its post limit and got locked out before we could fully discuss the final episode.
Netflix (Sex/Lives) an Inside to the mind of a WW
I was feeling a bit down today related to kids & OM2. Earlier this week I dropped off them off for the first time at ExW's new house, which is directly across the street from OM2's sister and her family. Looked like the two places coordinated Halloween decorations, and I'm sure they'll just be spending lots of time together as one big happy family. Then today S6 brought home a paper from 1st grade in which ExW had written OM2's pet name in the box for his family. I realize it's something I have no control over and have to get over it, but it still stings me as their father to know a person ExW betrayed me with is spending time raising my kids, and it's crazy to me how all of a sudden me and my family have been replaced with spares and the kids are just "dragged and dropped" into a brand new "family".
On the bright side...I have the kids for the next week and a half, so looking forward to that. I overheard S6 bragging to some of the other kids at their practice "hey guys my dad plays soccer, like real soccer" which made me proud to hear him say (he doesn't know it's just rec adult league lol). Also...I aced my grad school midterm!
Congrats on your midterm!
As for OM2 - your kids know YOU are dad. And let’s hope OM2 turns out to be an okay guy - it will be better for your kids if that is so. Being across the street from his sister may even give a measure of safety for your kids, as there are extra eyes in the relationship between your ex and him.
echoing kml - you are their dad. that won't change. I get it. suddenly there's this perfect stranger who helped implode your marriage having a relationship with your kids that you have no control over. mine is older, thank goodness, but it still REALLY bothers me, especially when he now calls her his step mother. No. She's his father's wife. To me a step mother is someone who helped raise you. She didn't. See what I mean? You aren't alone.
xo
You’re still their dad and your family is still just as important to them. Like kml said, let’s all hope he turns out to be a decent guy, for the sake of your kids. You will always be a strong, positive, stable influence for them.
echoing kml - you are their dad. that won't change. I get it. suddenly there's this perfect stranger who helped implode your marriage having a relationship with your kids that you have no control over. mine is older, thank goodness, but it still REALLY bothers me, especially when he now calls her his step mother. No. She's his father's wife. To me a step mother is someone who helped raise you. She didn't. See what I mean? You aren't alone.
xo
That’s an interesting thought that never occurred to me. I am a stepmom and my daughters still introduce me as their stepmom though I’m not married to their dad anymore. I do not feel like I helped raise them because they were 12, 14, and 16 when I came into their lives. I do feel a connection with and love for them and they feel it for me too.
12, 14 and 16- yes. you helped.
you were actively involved
you didn't see them 1 or 2 times a year AT BEST.
see what I mean?
gotta work on my resentment, clearly.
Good Morning BL
Yes, it is strange how quickly the drag and drop happens. How suddenly this is now the norm. To be sure, a blessing in disguise.
Kids are far more aware and accepting than we give them credit for. The kids of a good friend of mine were explaining their week. What they did in school. And the bedrooms they have at their two homes.
Switch over had just happened, and it was perfectly normal for them. My friend, still rather freshly minted into this divorce thing, was the one having difficulties. The kids were not.
They proudly and openly talked about how at Dad’s they have a bedroom they shared. Two girls, two years apart. And at Mom’s they have separate bedrooms. It was interesting that there was no comparing by them. It is us who compare.
The kids perspective is different. They are wanted at both places. Both bedrooms are their’s. Both are their safe places. Both are
home.
I get how that hurts. I get how I wanted my kids to resent their Mom and what she did. Acceptance and forgiveness are incredible gifts for one’s self. The path and effort to find them is very much worth it. Kids are better than us in this aspect, especially if their loving parent(s) is gently guiding them.
I overheard S6 bragging to some of the other kids at their practice "hey guys my dad plays soccer, like real soccer" which made me proud to hear him say
You are Dad!
In son’s eyes, at his age, there is nothing you cannot do. You are all powerful and all knowing. You are Dad!
Be his rock. Always. Never let him down. You keep yourself walking in the light, with honour, and you both will be perfectly fine. Even when he realizes it’s just rec league soccer.
If your son and daughter feel at home at both houses and within both families, you are most blessed.
Regardless of the pet name that was written upon son’s homework, Dad’s is written within his heart.
D
Kids are far more aware and accepting than we give them credit for. The kids of a good friend of mine were explaining their week. What they did in school. And the bedrooms they have at their two homes.
Switch over had just happened, and it was perfectly normal for them. My friend, still rather freshly minted into this divorce thing, was the one having difficulties. The kids were not.
How can you know this? Or how can you be so sure? I mean it could be just as you assume but far too many times it is not. Did you grow up wishing you could have 2 separate bedrooms or get shuttled to different houses, have to endure mom or dad having different men and women shuttle in and out of your lives?
The fact and truth of the matter is the majority of kids want mom and dad to stay together. They often pray for them to get back together even years after a D. This is more the truth. Kids will often figure out what the parents want and need and do what it takes to try to please them. They may try to be accepting and they most certainly are aware but if given the choice I’m confident the great majority would ask to have their mom and dad back together and would give up their two bedrooms and fractured lives in an instant to have their family whole again. They may be trying to make the best of a terrible situation but it is not normal - and if living like this has now become normal it’s just another notch on the downfall of society.
Did you grow up wishing you could.. have to endure mom or dad having different men and women shuttle in and out of your lives?
I think this speaks more to what DnJ said--LBS (adults) having trouble adapting. I doubt most kids have dreams or wishes one way or another about stepparents, beyond what they get from Disney films or fairy tales.
I've met many people who have wonderful stepparents. There are people on this forum who sound like wonderful stepparents. The woman I'm dating has a single step-parent on both sides. She describes her biodad as accomplished but busy, and her stepdad as less accomplished but with more time for her. Her biological parents have passed away but her stepparents remain. She feels she has a richer support network and range of experiences due to having stepparents. I also know a guy with four sets of stepparents! He stays in contact with all of them. Not all stepfamilies click. It can be a good or bad experience.
Do the kids prefer this situation? Of course they would prefer one home with two stable healthy parents.
But absolutely they adapt and they can be happy. We have a harder time adapting than they do.
The key to making it easily adaptable pretty much comes down to the parents. If you keep the animosity out of it, work well for the most part together, keep consistency in their lives, choose good new partners who care for the kids, they will thrives
The problem is ….. this is usually the hardest part for the parents to do and that’s when it goes awry
How can you know this? Or how can you be so sure? I mean it could be just as you assume but far too many times it is not. Did you grow up wishing you could have 2 separate bedrooms or get shuttled to different houses, have to endure mom or dad having different men and women shuttle in and out of your lives?
I’m reporting what I’ve seen. From the kids I’ve spoken to.
Of course, I never grew up wishing to have divorced parents or two bedrooms/homes. Although, some severely dysfunctional / abusive families I suspect that is exactly what the kids would wish for.
My statement is the ease of transition from the old norm to the new norm. How the younger child achieves it quicker and better than the older parent.
How can I be so sure? Did you mean for these two particular girls? I’ve had several times with them. Seen them. Listened to their words and mannerisms. The girls are loved and accepting of both of their parents and their situation - even though Mom basically hates Dad.
The Dad was betrayed, left behind at a campground 2500 miles from home. Mom took the girls. Hoped a flight and returned home, while the unsuspecting Dad was emptying the tanks on the trailer. He came back to the campsite and wondered where everyone was. It was something like five hours before she answered her phone and told him what she’d done.
He had to travel home to a house with changed locks and police waiting for him. His wife lied to the police. Accused him of molesting the children and abusing her. He was arrested. He went quite crazy for a while, such an unbelievable turn in his life.
It took almost two years of court battles, once a week hour long supervised visits with his own daughters, court ordered counselling, court ordered parenting courses, before the truth was finally vindicated. His XW was finally revealed.
She had crushed him. Stole money. Lied about assets. And had won a very unfair alimony and custody arrangement. The default it seems still favours the mother, or perhaps the one who attacks first.
Anyhow, I walked beside this guy. Talked to him over the years. He found forgiveness. Got this mess sorted out. Got back a bunch of money. Got the alimony proper. And got 50/50 custody.
The girls have two homes. And a loving Dad.
Like I said, be Dad. Be strong and stable. Never let them down. There is no better feeling than that of pride from your children. The truth wins out.
These two girls seem very well adjusted with all that has happened in their young lives. A couple of beliefs as to why based upon my observations of them and the many friends of my own kids as well as my own kids.
The girls were wanted. Even though they were weaponized, they were still wanted by both parents.
They were young. Around 5 & 7. They of course did not want their family ripped apart. However, it was clear it was not their doing.
The biggest reason, in my humble assertion, they accept easier because it was believed they would.
People beget that which they believe. Positive begets positive. Negative begets negative. Karma, fate, whatever you wish to call it.
If a parent believes that kids can and do accept things easier - they will. We will unknowingly (until realized) work towards that which we hold deep conviction for. Belief is a powerful force. And most people’s beliefs are not what they think they are.
They may try to be accepting and they most certainly are aware but if given the choice I’m confident the great majority would ask to have their mom and dad back together and would give up their two bedrooms and fractured lives in an instant to have their family whole again.
For a while this is the viewpoint. Even for us LBS. Eventually, they grow. As we all do. We all let go the fanciful wishes and accept. That ushers in healing and no longer believing one has a fractured life. And it is then, when they truly do not. Fractured ends when one believes it has.
The two girls are not at that point yet. They are young and doing fine. Their teenage years, boyfriends, driving lessons, and so on are all coming. Much growth is also coming. Personally, I believe they are on a good path. More importantly, their Dad believes it. And he will influence them, unknowingly most likely, yet influence he will. He forgave his wife and loves his girls. They have a very good role model to follow.
My own four children were put through the wringer by their Mom. I’ve had plenty of open honest conversations with them. They accepted their new lives quicker than I. They were not as invested in my marriage, obviously. Their Mom threw them away. I never did. All it takes is one strong stable loving parent. Believe it!
Acceptance and forgiveness are attainable. No matter what the situation. Just takes faith and conviction to get there. And the desire to do so. A certain age it seems is not a requisite.
Sometimes kids are the role model.
D
Kids are far more aware and accepting than we give them credit for. The kids of a good friend of mine were explaining their week. What they did in school. And the bedrooms they have at their two homes.
Switch over had just happened, and it was perfectly normal for them. My friend, still rather freshly minted into this divorce thing, was the one having difficulties. The kids were not.
How can you know this? Or how can you be so sure? I mean it could be just as you assume but far too many times it is not. Did you grow up wishing you could have 2 separate bedrooms or get shuttled to different houses, have to endure mom or dad having different men and women shuttle in and out of your lives?
The fact and truth of the matter is the majority of kids want mom and dad to stay together. They often pray for them to get back together even years after a D. This is more the truth. Kids will often figure out what the parents want and need and do what it takes to try to please them. They may try to be accepting and they most certainly are aware but if given the choice I’m confident the great majority would ask to have their mom and dad back together and would give up their two bedrooms and fractured lives in an instant to have their family whole again. They may be trying to make the best of a terrible situation but it is not normal - and if living like this has now become normal it’s just another notch on the downfall of society.
this has been what my son reports as his experience.
I planned to reply to your other post--been busy with Halloween. I completely agree pre-existing assets are a complex topic when divorcing and an area I would do some strategizing. Wishing you and yours a wonderful Halloween creating some new memories. (:
kml/bttrfly/Dawn70/DnJ,
As for OM2 - your kids know YOU are dad.
echoing kml - you are their dad. that won't change.
You’re still their dad and your family is still just as important to them.
You are Dad! In son’s eyes, at his age, there is nothing you cannot do. You are all powerful and all knowing...Regardless of the pet name that was written upon son’s homework, Dad’s is written within his heart.
Thanks for the support and reassurances on the dad-front. I appreciate the kind words. There's no doubt in my mind I am crushing it as a dad. I like S6 and D3 to pieces, and am doing everything I can to be their rock in this difficult and confusing situation.
kml/bttrfly/Dawn70/DnJ,
And let’s hope OM2 turns out to be an okay guy - it will be better for your kids if that is so. Being across the street from his sister may even give a measure of safety for your kids, as there are extra eyes in the relationship between your ex and him.
suddenly there's this perfect stranger who helped implode your marriage having a relationship with your kids that you have no control over.
Like kml said, let’s all hope he turns out to be a decent guy, for the sake of your kids. You will always be a strong, positive, stable influence for them.
I get how that hurts. I get how I wanted my kids to resent their Mom and what she did. Acceptance and forgiveness are incredible gifts for one’s self. The path and effort to find them is very much worth it.
In terms of OM2, you're right it will be better for the kids if he's a good guy and good to them. I need to swallow the hurt I feel with him in the picture and focus on what's best for the kids. The good thing is I have no indication he's not being nice or good to them. The only thing was D3 told my mom she likes when it's just her and S6 instead of OM2 too (but that could just be she wants more attention/focus from ExW and doesn't get as much when OM2 is around).
DnJ/DonH/CWarrior/Ginger1,
Kids are far more aware and accepting than we give them credit for.
How can you know this? Or how can you be so sure?...The fact and truth of the matter is the majority of kids want mom and dad to stay together. They often pray for them to get back together even years after a D. This is more the truth.
I think this speaks more to what DnJ said--LBS (adults) having trouble adapting. I doubt most kids have dreams or wishes one way or another about stepparents, beyond what they get from Disney films or fairy tales.
Do the kids prefer this situation? Of course they would prefer one home with two stable healthy parents. But absolutely they adapt and they can be happy. We have a harder time adapting than they do.
Good discussion on the impact to kids.
Long-term, I honestly don't know what to think about the impacts to my kids. I've read studies and heard stories on both sides, some saying there are negatives on personalities/education/future relationships and others talking about the ability of kids to adjust and be resilient. The friends and family I know from divorced families seemed to have at least periods of significant impact whereas those I know from non-divorced families seem to be better adjusted career/relationship-wise, but it's anecdotal.
Short-term I do know for sure my kids have had significant struggles. A year of now S6 crying and meltdowns and asking why didn't they try harder; D3 crying for mommy and confusion on schedule and asking why things are always changing. That's been heartbreaking to see as a father. But, all I can do is my best to be their rock and help them through it.
CWarrior/OnlyBent,
Wishing you and yours a wonderful Halloween creating some new memories. (:
Thanks for checking in.
Halloween was good; made some memories with the kids. It's so fun trick-or-treating, seeing them run from house to house and try to carry their bad of candy which gets heavier by the block. I did have a down moment when I dropped them off at ExW's and saw mutual friends at her place with her and OM2 instead of me and also OM2 in a "family costume", but took a moment to be sad and then went over to another friend/neighbor's place for some warm spiked apple cider.
Last week (my week w/the kids) was extremely very difficult. On Tues when ExW dropped them off after her dinner night D3 was clinging to her and crying that she didn't want mommy to leave and ExW asked if she could come in and sit on the couch with D3, which I agreed to. Then S6 started tearing up and longingly looking out the window when she left. On Wed & Thurs my parents usually watch the kids but my dad was out of town and my mom had a medical issue so I was flexing out and taking off from work both days which was challenging. D3 continued to have meltdowns throughout the week/weekend. Even something like getting out of the bathtub. It's very hard on me emotionally as a single parent and with the divorce and honestly it really wore me down to the point I was ready for the relief of ExW's week. I'm doing my best to do it all, but it's not easy.
This week (ExW's week with the kids) Monday I take care of S6 with after school activities anyway, but apparently D3 wouldn't go to dance class. Then on Tuesday I found out D3 later didn't go to preschool due to a meltdown with ExFIL. Wednesday went well and I took the kids to a drive-through Christmas light show at a zoo for our dinner night, which was nice, but Thursday I ended up picking S6 up from school because D3 wouldn't get in the car for ExFIL. Meanwhile ExW is working through a lot of this, and letting me and her parents take up the load. And D3 is definitely struggling recently and having a lot of emotions and I feel for her.
Anyway, I feel a little guilty but do need a mental break and am looking forward to some relaxing by myself this weekend before the cycle starts again Monday.
I’m sorry. It’s all very difficult and yea, it’s emotionally draining. It’s ok to need that break.
Is your custody schedule one week on and one week off? Honestly, for young kids, it’s not a good schedule. Especially for someone as young as D3. When they leave for the other parents house, it feels like forever when they are going to see the other parent and tend to cling to them. I didn’t have 50/50 with my ex and there were periods where she didn’t see him for a week and she would get really upset because she knew it was going to be a long time. She rarely got upset when she went from my house to her dads, because she saw me very often and it would never be longer than 2 days until she was with me again.
You might want to figure out somethings here there is a shorter period of not seeing the other parent. I truly believe it helps
Good Morning BL
I understand the feeling of guilty for desiring a little down time to rejuvenate one’s self. Realize, you need to be ok, if you want your children to be ok. There is no need to feel ashamed or guilty about placing your life vest on first. And I know you will continue to place the needs of your kids high on your priority list. Right as it should be. Just once in a while, place BL42 up there too. Finding times with minimal impact is the real trick.
In terms of OM2, you're right it will be better for the kids if he's a good guy and good to them. I need to swallow the hurt I feel with him in the picture and focus on what's best for the kids. The good thing is I have no indication he's not being nice or good to them.
It’s nice that OM2 is doing alright.
I’d like to encourage / suggest something for you:
“I need to swallow the hurt I feel with him in the picture and focus on what's best for the kids.”
Uncouple these two items.
Always focus on what’s best for the kids. That is its own thing. Do not utilize it as a reason or defence for altering your feelings. That will just build resentment.
No, you should not swallow your feelings. At the time of interaction, yes do remain calm. However, you need to let go those feelings. Experience those feelings. Rationalize those feelings. And in that, gain influence and therefore “control” of them.
Of course you’re hurt. It is ok. Make time to safely feel it. To work through it. To find peace.
I find a scheduled time work pretty well on altering and influencing one’s irrational emotional self. Emotions stir from triggers, be those external or internal. These events happen randomly and we react. When you schedule a time to force/encourage yourself to feel, it lessens the affect of future triggers.
A very important part of this scheduled forced feeling is stopping it. Schedule yourself 5 or 10 minutes where you allow (force) a freely expressed response of your hurt. Set an alarm for both start and finish. With this out of your system the reminder of your day is your’s.
In time, 10 minutes becomes 5 minutes, then 3, then 1, and then zero. You uncouple the irrational response from a trigger by rationalizing the trigger and your response. It’s emotional understanding, which is the essence of acceptance.
Long-term, I honestly don't know what to think about the impacts to my kids. I've read studies and heard stories on both sides, some saying there are negatives on personalities/education/future relationships and others talking about the ability of kids to adjust and be resilient. The friends and family I know from divorced families seemed to have at least periods of significant impact whereas those I know from non-divorced families seem to be better adjusted career/relationship-wise, but it's anecdotal.
There are many stories that illustrate many different outcomes. I caution using the word studies as it gives a certain unrealized credence to such. And there are far too many variables in such chaotic systems as family interactions and life’s interactions to distill it down to divorced or not.
You know me and my situation. I’m divorce. I’ve got an awesome family and life.
My views and belief - which is the real driver of an outcome, IMHO - you will achieve that which you strive for. Be that consciously/purposefully or not.
If you believe that broken families are in a deficit and are more likely to end up truly broken, they will be.
Notice, the use of “broken family” instead of parents that are divorced. Did you notice that? Did it seem normal for me to state it that way? We all create our realities. If one is predisposing themselves to a certain way, which we all are
, make it what you want.
If you believe that children of divorce parents have no intrinsic dysfunction or deficit than any other child or person then it will be so.
Our children’s paths are not decided by our marital status. Believe that!
Your path is not decided by your marital status. Believe that too!
Even if the “studies” are true. Be the anomaly. Be an outlier on the graph. Be the Dad and kids that thrive and enjoy a wonderful life. Join me, let’s band together and make that the norm of future stories and studies.
I’m pretty big proponent for casting of self-imposed shackles. Be it fear, worry, doubt, or whatever. Rise up. You got this!
D
I’m also going to address the “impact “ to the kids.
The impact is honestly minimal of both parents stay peaceful and the kids are left out of the personal stuff.
Honestly, this has sukked more for me and my daughter. She’s a well adjusted 14 year old. Happy and healthy. I can’t honestly see any impact our divorce has had on her in the long run so far. She never knew us together, but she’s lived between the 2 houses, has lots of people who love her and her parents get along even if we don’t live together . She is very smart, thriving in school and thriving socially . No depression, just a snarky teenager, but a happy one, nonetheless .
I couldn’t have asked for a better outcome for her through all of this.
Me, I’m the messed up one, lol
Hi BL42, I strongly support what Ginger and DnJ shared. I had one more thought--
I dropped them off at ExW's and saw mutual friends at her place with her and OM2 instead of me and also OM2 in a "family costume"
Then on Tuesday I found out D3 later didn't go to preschool due to a meltdown with ExFIL.
ExW asked if she could come in and sit on the couch with D3, which I agreed to.
My XW and I are 11yrs divorced. I've never seen her boyfriends. She's never stepped foot in my home. My XGF saw her XH twice in the three years we were together. While working through your feelings towards OM2 would be helpful, it should also be possible to restructure your handoffs such that you see a whole lot less of what's going on over there. In my case, the person taking custody does the picking up, hand-offs happen at the car, the kids walked out on their own once they were old enough, and we leveraged school and daycares for contact-less handoffs.
Ginger1,
Is your custody schedule one week on and one week off? Honestly, for young kids, it’s not a good schedule.
You might want to figure out somethings here there is a shorter period of not seeing the other parent. I truly believe it helps
Yes, our current schedule is one week on and one week off with a "dinner evening" on opposite weeks. We'll have to monitor and reconsider if it's not good for the kids.
I thought the "it's daddy's week" / "it's mommy's week" would be a more structured & easier to understand for the kids than going back and forth every 2-3 days and all the associated transitions. And with my flexible work schedule and volunteering for kids' activities, and all last year watching them before/after school even on ExW's weeks, I've seen the kids almost as much as her during her weeks. So it might be as you say more upset leaving ExW than me because of my additional involvement.
DnJ,
Uncouple these two items.
Always focus on what’s best for the kids. That is its own thing. Do not utilize it as a reason or defence for altering your feelings. That will just build resentment.
No, you should not swallow your feelings. At the time of interaction, yes do remain calm. However, you need to let go those feelings. Experience those feelings. Rationalize those feelings. And in that, gain influence and therefore “control” of them.
My views and belief - which is the real driver of an outcome, IMHO - you will achieve that which you strive for. Be that consciously/purposefully or not.
Even if the “studies” are true. Be the anomaly. Be an outlier on the graph. Be the Dad and kids that thrive and enjoy a wonderful life. Join me, let’s band together and make that the norm of future stories and studies.
I’m pretty big proponent for casting of self-imposed shackles. Be it fear, worry, doubt, or whatever. Rise up. You got this!
Always insightful posts.
You're right about decoupling the kids and my OM2 emotions. I do for the part most...always focusing on doing my best for the kids and not burdening them with my OM2 emotions, but then take some time afterwards to process. Sometimes, if I'm being honest, my frustration seeps through when I'm with them but mostly not.
Great attitude about adjusting the mindset, casting aside the self-imposed shackles, and striving to be the outliers. I do think I'm striving to thrive and have a wonderful but an area to work on for sure!
CWarrior,
While working through your feelings towards OM2 would be helpful, it should also be possible to restructure your handoffs such that you see a whole lot less of what's going on over there.
The good news is, based on feedback from the board, ExW & I did agree to switch weekly transitions from Sunday evenings to Mondays before/after the school day, so now drop offs are limited to off-week dinners. It's fewer transitions for the kids and further reduces the need for me to bring them to her house, with a potential OM2 sighting. Halloween was a one-off so we could each do some trick-or-treating with them. ExW does has a habit of stepping into the house with D3 or to drop off their bags, so I may email her about that.
Working Out - Two months at the gym with my buddy. We have a chest & back / bis & tris / legs routine with some abs and cardio built in. I've always been average to maybe above average shape for my age, but am seeing the early results of lifting weights (it's been awhile) and it feels good. I need to turn two months into 6 months and then a year.
Grad school - Just the last group project milestone and Final to go on my first semester. My grades are good but need to decide whether to continue on with the degree. My career is already going very well and not sure I want to spend my limited free time at home behind a computer on more assignments, as opposed to getting out and doing other fun/social activities.
Dating - Very little to no luck with online dating. I don't live in a one stoplight town, but it's not a huge area either, and it seems like the options are fairly limited for folks in my position. I'm keeping life interesting as a single dad but would be lying if I said I don't miss companionship. This Summer a few months after my D finalized I asked out a woman I know (very attractive, fantastic mother, great parents/family background). She told me at the time she had just started seeing someone. Well she popped up on online dating last week and though I probably should've resisted I reached out last night via social media (while I was feeling lonely) to ask if she was single again. She saw the message but didn't respond - it probably didn't come off as super smooth - so feeling a bit awkward and disappointed. Need to resist the urge to over pursue out of loneliness!
Friends - Over drinks with buddies Friday night, found out one of them (6yo and 4yo, similar to mine) had his W initiate the D process we all know so well. I offer to lend him my support as being a year or two ahead of him. Last night had plans to go to a sporting event with a friend who bailed, hence the lonely social media reach out.
Lol. Yeah “are you single again” definitely not smooth. The indirect approach of just commenting about something on her social media page was the way to go here. If she was interested she would then put herself in your orbit somehow. Oh well lesson learned.
Be patient with OLD it is a grind.
Shockingly enough, transitions are fine at that age. Their surroundings don’t matter as much as wanting to be able to see their parents. A week is an eternity in little kid world not see one of their parents. And the dinners are kind of a tease for them. And yes, my daughter did a lot better with exchanges done at school. Going from one parent to another was really tough on her at a young age.
I will say when they get older, they do prefer less transition. When they settle into their own ways and routines and their rooms are truly “their space”. My kid is 14 now and that one night a week she goes to dads is a pain for her. She gets dropped off the next morning at my house so she can catch the bus. She makes sure the day before after school she prepares her lunch, switches her books, picks out her clothes. She loves her dad and even though it’s a pain, she wants to see him that one night a week.
It’s tough stuff all around. I lend my advice because I have been switching off my kid since she was 6 months old and now she’s a freshman in high school. I observed a lot. I spoke with therapists and other parents a lot on how to make this the best I could on her.
Good Morning BL
Sometimes, if I'm being honest, my frustration seeps through when I'm with them but mostly not.
I’ve been there. The frustration was so maddening, and at times so ceaseless, it was difficult to keep it separate.
Another part of that survive/thrive mindset we are talking about:
You make yourself feel. No one else does. You control you.
It’s casting off of self-imposed shackles; not ignoring them.
Your feelings regarding OM2 are perfectly normal. Altering pickup and drop off arrangements to limit seeing or interacting with him is not the answer. (Alter arrangements for kids’ betterment - Yes. Alter so you don’t need to deal with OM2 feelings - No.)
OM2 triggers feelings within you. Your feelings within you. He doesn’t cause the feelings, they are already there. He doesn’t even stir them up to the surface, you do that too. Your feelings are you, and you do not want to ignore yourself.
I found my frustration and hurt and such - I dragged around with me. Sure I could ignore, for a while, and then they’d rise again. See it was me, not XW or OM. And I, am always close by to me.
Indifference, letting go, ego, acceptance, forgiveness - different facets all working together. The goal is to face your situation and become healed and healthy and strong and confident, so it no longer hurts. You control you. You influence you.
In my view, you are doing quite well. A good ways along that path. Continue working through your feelings regarding OM2 and let them go. Rationalize
your triggers and responses.
Understand and discover that your emotions are within you. They are born from deep within your irrational self. They are fleeting. They change. They cannot be directly control. They can be influenced.
Mental assertiveness. We utilize our logic and reason to alter and influence our emotional state. This same mental exercise slowly alters our beliefs as well.
Beliefs and convictions are excellent headings for life. They influence everything within us. Strengthen beliefs that serve you, craft those you aspire to, and alter or discard those that do not serve.
You do that, and you’ll have no need to alter pickup times or anything just because OM2 is around.
Peace and contentment. Believe it.
D
LH,
Lol. Yeah “are you single again” definitely not smooth. The indirect approach of just commenting about something on her social media page was the way to go here. If she was interested she would then put herself in your orbit somehow. Oh well lesson learned.
Not smooth at all lol. I need to flex my flirting muscles a bit more after a decade.
Ginger1,
Shockingly enough, transitions are fine at that age. Their surroundings don’t matter as much as wanting to be able to see their parents. A week is an eternity in little kid world not see one of their parents. And the dinners are kind of a tease for them. And yes, my daughter did a lot better with exchanges done at school. Going from one parent to another was really tough on her at a young age.
Thanks for the advice on the schedules/transitions. Definitely food for thought. I'll certainly be monitoring and working with ExW to adjust if needed.
DnJ,
Indifference, letting go, ego, acceptance, forgiveness - different facets all working together. The goal is to face your situation and become healed and healthy and strong and confident, so it no longer hurts. You control you. You influence you.
In my view, you are doing quite well. A good ways along that path. Continue working through your feelings regarding OM2 and let them go. Rationalize your triggers and responses.
Always deep and insightful posts. I appreciate the thoughts on my emotions and OM2. Definitely an area for me to work on. I've notice how much you post on threads on all the various boards, and read through the start of your story last night. What an incredibly surreal and confusing BD compared to almost any other sitch on here...and that's saying a lot around here! A couple things resonated with me already I plan to read through your entire sitch and comment soon, if I can find the time.
Quick update...
Great Thanksgiving Holiday with the kids. I took off work to align with their days of from school, so spent pretty much off of Wednesday through Sunday with them. We had dinner with my parents, and my sister/BIL/niece travel to visit over the weekend, so great family time. We also went to get our Christmas tree and decorated, which D3 and S6 especially loved and was so excited about. D3 seemed a lot more settled last week fortunately...she seemed happy and content with no major meltdowns.
One thing occurred to me over this particular holiday is how thankful I am of this community and everyone here who has lent their time, support, and advice to me over the last year and a half. I'm coming up on two years since BD early next year and this forum has been partially responsible for getting my life back on track. Hope you all (at least the US folks) had a nice Thanksgiving :-)
Sounds like you had a great holiday with your kiddos. That is awesome. I totally agree with what you said about being thankful for this community. I have gotten some great advice here and it was a lifesaver when I first went through all my mess. It can be a helpful place!
Just got back from a parent/teacher conference with ExW & S6's 1st grade teacher...
S6 is doing well overall. He behaves in class, socially making friends, academically Math is a strength but he's a reading level behind so that's an area for us to work on with him. I was a bit concerned he's behind the curve there because although it's only first grade I don't want him to constantly be playing catch up and get "tracked" behind others. ExW made the comment to me in front of the teacher that she grew up differently than me and was always struggling academically and still turned into a productive member of society (I bit my tongue of course lol). It's true my sister & I were very strong academically growing up whereas ExW and her brother were not. Part of that though I attribute to upbringing with my stable home environment where reading was encouraged whereas ExW's parents did not seem to stress academics and w/Ex-MIL running all around town and the D she bounced from one parent or grandparents house to another (and that's a concern I have for my kids now). Anyway S6's teacher commented that although S6 is behind, he is progressing and gaining confidence and we'll have a better sense at the end of the year, which relieved my concerns a bit.
I raised the subject of his emotional adjustment in school. Trying to tactfully bring it up by saying "S6 has gone through a lot of changes over the past year" and asking if he's doing well emotionally, and whether activities/assignments such as a coloring / writing a story about their families/home life caused him to get upset. The teacher said he did seem a bit teary eyed at the beginning of the school year, but she hasn't noticed anything lately which would be cause for concern and made the comment "they usually save that for you guys at home".
ExW & I were sitting next to each other in chairs sixed for 6yos across from the teacher. No clue how she felt obviously; I felt a bit uncomfortable, but tried to keep it on the inside and not let it show and keep my focus on S6's progress. The discussion at the conference went very smoothly between the three of us though and everyone was adults about the situation.
The major awkwardness came afterwards when ExW & I were leaving S6's classroom and had to walk down this long quiet hallway just the two of us. Neither of us said anything to each other, and eventually I picked up my pace a bit and started walking a bit ahead. I was heading to an exit closest to my house (I live nearby) on the other side of the school. She kept following me, but then realized she passed the main entrance and had to turn around and circle back to go towards the exit for the parking lot. Very awkward and uncomfortable.
Anyway, S6 seems to be doing well in school so that's most important thing.
On the reading thing:
Reading to and with kids is important. Since you may not be able to count on ex for that, make it a big part of your time together with S6.
All 3 of my kids were great readers but honestly, they all read differently. Two were sight readers, one read phonetically. There are pros and cons to each approach. If your sons school emphasizes one approach, maybe you can offer a different approach at home. ( I remember one very experienced teacher my kids had, talking about how when the district swung away from phonics, she still kept all her old phonics instruction materials. )
The Harry Potter books were great to read to my kids because each chapter ends with a cliffhanger. They’d beg for another chapter!
Hello BL
I agree with kml. Making reading a fun time with Dad. Lots of benefits from that.
I get the awkward and uncomfortable feeling of walking down the school corridor with XW. It is telling she feels it too as she missed her door.
You two have a 6 year old son and 3 year old daughter together. There are going to be many such walks and times. Be the better person, the healthier person, and break the ice. Change this long silent walk by just commenting how well S6 is doing. She’ll response in kind. A few more exchanges and the exit door is there.
You and her are going to have to be together now and then over the next years. You might as well be the one to craft and set/demonstrate the expectations going forward.
D
Dnj, I have to dissagree. It has nothing to do with being a bigger man/woman. She has fired him from the husband position. So that's a no to breaking the ice. All conversations should be eather about the kids or the finances, other conversation should be avoided, at least until the healing process has done a couple of cycles.
Any breaking of the proverbial ice is uncomfortable and a LBS is inclined to read too much into the conversation. For instance, if the WS says she's feeling bad or going throug a rough patch, the LBS's brain turns this into a proof that the WS is missing him or even that she's realised the mistake she's made. THis could not be farther from the truth. If anything, she's only feeling sorry for herself and nothing more. In her mind she's intitled for everything, and more, and any opposition from the LBS is met with anger and bile.
By all means the LBS should be putting on a brave face, not overtly happy, because this will come across as phony. Snar remarks and anger should be controlled as they really do serve no purpose.
I found it best if the ex spouse is treated like a distant neighbour or a business associate, where you politely greet them but avoid any personal interaction.
I 100% agree with DNJ. His suggestion was to break the ice by speaking of the kid and conference. So that would make it about the kid.
And with a 3 and 6 year old, the distant neighbor thing isn’t what’s best for the kids. They kids will read and pick up on this and they have a lifetime of events to endure together. Being able to be pretty cordial, having a little bit of a convo about something related to the kids will put everyone at ease, including those kids who are watching interactions like hawk.
Don’t have to besties. But a cordial goal is something to aim for and slowly work up to . It will make things so so much easier and peaceful
I say thjng, because you have many years left of recitals and school functions and events you’ll be attending together . Less awkward is the best.
My daughter was able to say to me how happy it makes her that her parents can sit next to eachother and talk to eachother at her stuff and it never feels awkward unlike other divorced parents.
You may not be there yet, but it’s a goal to work towards
I know why don’t we all have mixed families and sing Kumbia by the campfire every Friday night.
I think BL deserves some slack for not wanting to have idle chit chat with a woman who is on OM2 before they were divorced. He’s a little over a year into it and it will take some time.
I know why don’t we all have mixed families and sing Kumbia by the campfire every Friday night.
I think BL deserves some slack for not wanting to have idle chit chat with a woman who is on OM2 before they were divorced. He’s a little over a year into it and it will take some time.
Oh shut up. That’s not what anyone is saying. When you have years and years of shared childrens events, being able to not have awkward silences all the time and building towards comfort in the same space is a great goal to work towards for everyone
Or we can just spend all that time being bitter and “right” and when your youngest is 3, that’s a long time like that.
No one is jumping on his back and we are t taking any slack away from him. DNJ and myself have him some advice on easing into something for peaceful and comfortable for the long run for himself.
Comfortably being the same space is not having a “mixed” family and singing koom bay ya, and you know this LH.
Wow I thought this was a safe place to have opinions on here.
If it’s better not bitter then why not mixed families? After all that would be best for the kids.
He was able to sit with her at PTCs. So he didn’t want to discuss the weather on the way out. So be it.
That was an an opinion it was a PAssive agressive wise ass remark .
No one even insinuated they should be one big happy family. And no one insinuated that he was even doing anything “wrong” so we don’t need to cut him slack. We support him , just giving him some tips that might make things for comfortable for him going forward.
I think you are doing just fine BL. It’s hard to navigate with young young kids. And if I can impart anything from what I did wrong or right, I will and you can take or leave any of my advice.
LH, you know there is a healthy spot between bitterness and mixed families. And that’s what we are guiding him towards. A peaceful comfortable place to help him endure the years to come, which is more than most . He doesn’t have to go there if he doesn’t want .
Fair enough. Let me rephrase. BL I understand why you don’t want to have a phony bs conversation with your ex wife. You’ll get there when you get there.
No one suggested phony BS conversations either.
I’ll leave this out of BL’s thread now because it’s more about you LH, than him.
My daughter has always hated reading. She doesn’t have the best reading comprehension either. She’s a star student in a hard to get into high school. All kids have their strengths and weaknesses . He’s be great
Well since he left the building without talking to her. I can only guess that’s because he didn’t want to talk to her. So if he talked to her when he didn’t want to it would be phony.
Good Morning BL
I think I stated to you, and if I haven’t I am now, I will always give you the best advice I can and it will be for you.
My suggestion is to just to continue the minutes earlier teacher/parent conference regarding son. Just a few sentences to get to the door. A way to foster a cordial relationship and remove the awkwardness of a long silent walk. That’s for you. It will also help son. And yes, even XW will be influenced by such a gesture. It may even help her, which will also pay dividends to the people the advice is mainly for - you and kids.
On a personal note, I detest the idea of blended families. That is a magical Hollywood fantasy. Blech! I ain’t anywhere close to suggesting you and XW sing Kumbaya all together.
(My XW had her fantasy all laid out and explained as she was literally packing and leaving with OM out the door - we’d share blended Christmases and in the summer all drink mojitos on my deck. Lol. Such confusion.)
However, you and the kids definitely should sing Kumbaya! And I mean that literally. We’ve had many great campfires and continued them sans Mom.
You are doing great BL. Have a wonderful weekend.
D
DNJ your posts are always carefully written and well spoken. Thank you for being respectful in your response.
DNJ and Ginger are right that cordial is where you want to get. My point was more that if you weren’t interested in idle chit chat that’s ok too.
It’s difficult to navigate early on. You are trying to do the right thing for your kids but even DNJ admits that should only go so far. If it was all about the kids then we would do blended families because that would be what’s in their best interest.
Hi BL42,
There’s already been much discussion about goal posts for the future—I just wanted to note that you handled the current situation well. You didn’t mind read much where she’s at, and you were open to heading and considering her opinions during the conference.
Good discussion on the parent teacher conference...
kml/DnJ,
Reading to and with kids is important. Since you may not be able to count on ex for that, make it a big part of your time together with S6.
I agree with kml. Making reading a fun time with Dad. Lots of benefits from that.
Couldn't agree more about reading. I'll certainly make it more of a priority. I've It's a little challenging as a single parent to read age appropriate for both 6.5yo and 3yo kids, but my parents are in town to assist as well which is great for the kids (and me).
Hallway Walk / Awkward Silence...
To LH & Vapo's point, I certainly did not want to talk to her. During the initial period of BD/OM1/IHS I was mostly stunned and sad and depressed and fearful of losing my family, but then OM2 and separation and D I'm more angry at her for breaking up our family and making kids go back and forth and moving OM2 in with the kids almost immediately. I've lost respect of her and now think of her as a woman of low integrity, and I wish this behavior was not being modeled for my kids.
But to Ginger & DnJ's point, maybe a brief comment or two regarding S6's schooling would've been warranted to break the ice, and would help the kids moving forward (though in this case the kids weren't around to witness). As I said, we were very cordial and business like during the conference with the teacher. We were "adults" so to speak.
And the after conference hallway walk was probably the first encounter we've had alone since maybe ExW moving out a year and a half ago. I don't know. It's tough. It's awkward and uncomfortable. I assume over time it will get easier. You'll all right in that my children are so young it's going to be a LONG road ahead.
On a personal note, I detest the idea of blended families. That is a magical Hollywood fantasy. Blech! I ain’t anywhere close to suggesting you and XW sing Kumbaya all together.
ExW told me when she was moving out that we'd still all go out for ice cream or walks and spend birthdays and holidays together (not that I'd want to), and then a few weeks or a month later had a separate party for then D2 with OM2's family and sneaking him over after even her dad and step mom left (they circled back and got his plates and did a background check on him...). So no chance of a blended family with ExW & OM2 anytime soon (again, no chance I'd want to regardless).
I think BL deserves some slack for not wanting to have idle chit chat with a woman who is on OM2 before they were divorced. He’s a little over a year into it and it will take some time.
I think you are doing just fine BL. It’s hard to navigate with young young kids. And if I can impart anything from what I did wrong or right, I will and you can take or leave any of my advice.
You are doing great BL. Have a wonderful weekend.
There’s already been much discussion about goal posts for the future—I just wanted to note that you handled the current situation well. You didn’t mind read much where she’s at, and you were open to heading and considering her opinions during the conference.
Always appreciate the kind words. It's good to know others who have been through this think I'm doing well. I think I am too, but also think it takes time...
Pretty good weekend of GAL without the kids...
Friday met up with three buddies for happy hour and wings, and also applied for membership at a country club at which many of my best local friends are members. I spent a good amount of time there as a guest last Summer on my "off" weekends, and they've been at me to formally join, and I feel comfortable doing so now that my finances/expenses have settled post-D. I'll be able to take the kids to the pool when I have them and golf when I don't, and there are also social events like the "Mingle & Jingle" Christmas party next weekend which I'll go to with all my friends.
Saturday I met up for lunch with a buddy of mine and his wife and then we went to a casino to watch college football. I'm not much of a gambler like they are, but figured it was a day out and ended up winning some money at blackjack and even more at craps, so that was a plus.
This morning I played pickleball for the first time (I do play tennis, so it's right up my alley) and in the afternoon went by myself to open skating at a local ice rink and unexpectedly ran into several people I know (my neighbors, a dad & kid from S6's sports team I coach, and classmate I haven't seen in a awhile).
Tonight I'm going to submit the last homework assignment of the semester for my first grad school course and then start tackling the take-home final.
Filling in those silent awkward spaces can be challenging in the beginning. Lots been already but here's what I did in the first few years when it came to teacher/parent conferences.
The kids would come with us and hang out in the back doing coloring or reading while we had the chat with the teacher. When we were done, kids would walk out with us and go with whichever parent had them for the night. This way, I could just talk to them for the 30 seconds walking out of the school, and then exchange a 'bye' with exW at the end.
The times when we had to be by ourselves, we'd exchange pleasantries and just let the silence happen. I got pretty comfortable with silence so it didn't bother me. If it bothered her, I dunno. I didn't really care to know. I just wanted to have the least amount of convo because she was always angry, or at least radiated a lot of anger. I didn't want to be her punching bag.
She's only softened this year and so we can have some basic conversation. But I still keep it about the kids and scheduling. any niceties on her part, I just reply with 'thanks'. keep it very short. I prefer to keep her on the periphery of my life and she only knows things if she needs to know them because it affects our parenting schedule - like if I need to switch days and vice versa. I don't see the need for anything more. I still believe in as much NC and being dark as possible - mostly for my own sanity and sustaining the work I've done to move ahead in my life.
I'm not into the whole blended families nonsense either - why go back in to a dynamic that you were fired from. And I don't mean it from an angry point of view, but I don't see any benefit in going beyond what's needed.
Two post-D logistical questions...
1) Marital Last Name - ExW is still using my last name on things like school papers, kids activities, financials...etc. At this point I'd prefer she didn't; she clearly has no interest in being part of my family so why should she use our name? Perhaps she's holding out for an OM2 proposal to save an extra transition? I kid. Sort of. Anyway, understood it's out of my control but I'm tempted to send a note asking what the status is there (serving as a bit of a nudge). Or, do I just let it be?
2) Monthly Child Support Payments - 18 down, only 214 more to go! LOL. Unfortunately for me my state's laws have little bearing on the children's actual financial needs and are based mostly on the disparity of parental income, so despite ExW having a professional job and me caring for the kids 50% in agreement (and usually more in practice) I'm basically paying her mortgage & car payment. But, I digress. Support runs until age 21...so with S6 and D3 it's going to be a long road. Right now I'm writing physical checks monthly and just passing them over in a backpack or bag during a transition. Is there a better way to handle this going forward?
1) Marital Last Name - ExW is still using my last name on things like school papers, kids activities, financials...etc. At this point I'd prefer she didn't; she clearly has no interest in being part of my family so why should she use our name? Perhaps she's holding out for an OM2 proposal to save an extra transition? I kid. Sort of. Anyway, understood it's out of my control but I'm tempted to send a note asking what the status is there (serving as a bit of a nudge). Or, do I just let it be?
Sounds passive aggressive to ask her to change her name.
2) Monthly Child Support Payments - 18 down, only 214 more to go! LOL. Unfortunately for me my state's laws have little bearing on the children's actual financial needs and are based mostly on the disparity of parental income, so despite ExW having a professional job and me caring for the kids 50% in agreement (and usually more in practice) I'm basically paying her mortgage & car payment. But, I digress. Support runs until age 21...so with S6 and D3 it's going to be a long road. Right now I'm writing physical checks monthly and just passing them over in a backpack or bag during a transition. Is there a better way to handle this going forward?
I have mine direct deposited from my check into her account. I just did the math I have less then 100. Wahoo!
Let it be. What name she chooses is outside your control. My XW's motive for using "my" last name for the last 11yrs is so her last name matches the kids' last name, and simple laziness (name changes are complicated--new passport, driver's license, credit card, employee name, etc.) I certainly wouldn't want to go through more changes than necessary.
So, about the last name. I understand why you would want her to change it. When I divorced, I kept my XH's last name, mainly because it was the name I was known by professionally and I, at least that time, wasn't planning on changing professions at least for the foreseeable future. Of course, then I did change AND move back to my hometown 2 years after the divorce. In retrospect, if I had known all that would happen, I would have gone back to my maiden name when I went through the divorce, but how could I know? My XH had this weird thing about how mad he got about his XW changing back to her maiden name when they divorced and I honestly didn't give a rat's @$$ if was mad at me for keeping or changing it. He fired himself from any position of giving a crap about anything related to me when he divorced me and his last name was also my LEGAL last name at that point, so honestly, if he had asked me to change it, I would've kept his just to spite him. Now, I'm not saying your XW would do that, but it IS her LEGAL name and it is also your children's legal name so I can see her wanting to keep it, at least for now. Like LH said, asking her to change seems a bit passive aggressive.
As far as the child support, I would figure out a way to directly deposit it to whatever account she wants it in, even if that means her opening a separate account just for that or whatever. Passing it back and forth doesn't leave enough of a paper trail for you to be able to say you gave it to her. Again, not saying she would try to screw you over because I don't know either of you, but I would just think for both of your sake you would want some sort of actual proof (other than just the check itself) that the money is changing hands. I only say this because when my XH and I first got married, he was paying his XW like you do, just giving her a check directly. She would occasionally take the check and hold it until she got the 2nd one for the month (we paid twice a month since that is how he got paid at work) and say that she hadn't received the first one and because she hadn't cashed it, of course, we had no proof that she had received it. Then, she'd be nasty and threaten to report him to child support office for not paying and all sorts of other drama.
Food for thought, but that is just my 2 cents, based on my own experiences.
Two post-D logistical questions...
1) Marital Last Name - ExW is still using my last name on things like school papers, kids activities, financials...etc. At this point I'd prefer she didn't; she clearly has no interest in being part of my family so why should she use our name? Perhaps she's holding out for an OM2 proposal to save an extra transition? I kid. Sort of. Anyway, understood it's out of my control but I'm tempted to send a note asking what the status is there (serving as a bit of a nudge). Or, do I just let it be?
Nothing you can do about it, none of your business. You don't own her name, she does. Some women change their last name, some don't. It's a hassle. Mine didn't change her's either. She could call herself Buffy McD if she wanted to. It does simplify things for them if they have a professional reputation attached to it as well as with kids / school to keep the name that is on all the paperwork.
2) Monthly Child Support Payments - 18 down, only 214 more to go! LOL. Unfortunately for me my state's laws have little bearing on the children's actual financial needs and are based mostly on the disparity of parental income, so despite ExW having a professional job and me caring for the kids 50% in agreement (and usually more in practice) I'm basically paying her mortgage & car payment. But, I digress. Support runs until age 21...so with S6 and D3 it's going to be a long road. Right now I'm writing physical checks monthly and just passing them over in a backpack or bag during a transition. Is there a better way to handle this going forward?
Follow the letter of your agreement if it specifies. I do an e-transfer on or before the 15th of each month. I like that system as I get to control when the money leaves my account. Your bank may be able to automate a payment if that's something you would want. It helps to just think of it as one more bill to be paid. Also - not sure on your jurisdiction, but here at least spousal support is taxable by the recipient whereas child support isn't. Every year I fill out a form that I send to the government and my HR person to reduce the amount of tax deducted at source based on the spousal support I pay. It comes to a surprisingly large amount.
Because I love to tell my stories and because I’m home on LOA and bored, I’ll tell it
I went back to maiden name. I didn’t want to share it with his AP. I got my ex to agree to hyphenate our daughters name, but I didn’t go through with it.
For Christmas , my dad and his wife are getting my daughter a jersey of our favorite hockey team. I told him to only do a number ( her birth day and one of the top players on the team ) but they needed a name too. So I told him to put her last name on it ( my ex’s last name, obviously) . My dad in his usual unreasonable sensitive manner gets insulted because it’s HIS name. I corrected this one and said , “no, that’s her name, and she shouldn’t feel bad about what her last name is” he apologized quickly on this one.
Your kids have your last name and they are a part of her family. She shouldn’t have to give up her last which is her kids last name. Her kids are her family and she shouldn’t have to extricate from that part.
And even though I changed my name back and my ex hasn’t even been involved with her schooling, everyone has called me Mrs . ( daughters last name) anyways
My ex Zelle’s his payments right into my account.
And yes, child support is based on disparity and the division given that disparity. It goes towards the cost of housing and living. Food, electric. Mortgage, etc. Not just direct monetary needs of the children.
If my ex and I had 50/50, I would be paying child support to him . He pays me Because I have more custody . I am the higher earner . He’s fortunate k never took him
Back since the original agreement
Let it be. I kept my married name. It's the same as my kids and it's the professional name I've used. In fact I had it almost as long as I'd had my maiden name when we got divorced. It shouldn't affect you in the slightest.
As for child support - you are contributing to their quality of life. Even with your contribution they will not be living in as affluent a household on either end, as what they had before the divorce. Kids are expensive and this is your obligation. If this helps them live in better housing, have more amenities, go to a better school district, afford a vacation with their mom - these are all things you should be supportive of. In extreme examples, for instance, it would be bad for the kids to live with one wealthy parent and then have to go half the time to live with a poverty-stricken parent in a slum. Child support helps ensure that their quality of life does not vary that greatly from one household to the next. Let go of the resentment, it will only hurt your children.
(My ex held on to his resentment over my alimony - our kids were grown. I'd mommy tracked my career in order to relieve my ex of all those pesky child-rearing issues that would have interfered with his surfing and mountain climbing and his great career success. If I'd had the support HE had, I could have had an equally lucrative career. But since someone needed to raise the kids, and breastfeeding and other issues made it most logical that this be me, and since I had some serious health issues possibly triggered by pregnancy, my career slowed down to part time in those years. I work full time now but make much less than my ex does. My alimony is by the book, actually less than what the formula would give me. But my cheapo ex thinks in his mind that since he pays me alimony after a 24 year marriage, I should be solely responsible for helping out adult children when they need help . Don't be that guy - he's losing his relationships with the kids over it. You made a commitment to the kids and this money benefits them directly or indirectly. )
All,
Sounds passive aggressive to ask her to change her name.
Let it be. What name she chooses is outside your control.
Like LH said, asking her to change seems a bit passive aggressive.
Nothing you can do about it, none of your business. You don't own her name, she does. Some women change their last name, some don't. It's a hassle.
Your kids have your last name and they are a part of her family. She shouldn’t have to give up her last which is her kids last name. Her kids are her family and she shouldn’t have to extricate from that part.
Let it be. I kept my married name. It's the same as my kids and it's the professional name I've used. In fact I had it almost as long as I'd had my maiden name when we got divorced. It shouldn't affect you in the slightest.
Unanimous consensus to "let it be" on the last name so I won't broach the subject. Part of me does hope she changes it, and thinks she probably will at some point (though not sure she feels about taking her father's name back?...seriously might be waiting for OM2's name), but I suppose it doesn't overly bother me. It's just something I think about when writing her the checks. Understand I can't control it anyway. I'll stay silent on the matter.
He fired himself from any position of giving a crap about anything related to me when he divorced me and his last name was also my LEGAL last name at that point, so honestly, if he had asked me to change it, I would've kept his just to spite him.
Maybe I should explicitly ask her to
keep my name so she changes it just to spite me! ;-)
name changes are complicated--new passport, driver's license, credit card, employee name, etc.) I certainly wouldn't want to go through more changes than necessary.
Completely understand why it's a pain, and it's typically the women who have to deal with it.
I have mine direct deposited from my check into her account.
I do an e-transfer on or before the 15th of each month. I like that system as I get to control when the money leaves my account.
As far as the child support, I would figure out a way to directly deposit it to whatever account she wants it in, even if that means her opening a separate account just for that or whatever.
My ex Zelle’s his payments right into my account.
I'll look into a way to automate / direct deposit it in the future. 18 more years is a long time to be writing out a physical check every month.
I just did the math I have less then 100. Wahoo!
99 child support checks on the wall! 99 child support checks! Take one down, pass it around...98 child support checks on the wall!
Passing it back and forth doesn't leave enough of a paper trail for you to be able to say you gave it to her. Again, not saying she would try to screw you over because I don't know either of you, but I would just think for both of your sake you would want some sort of actual proof (other than just the check itself) that the money is changing hands.
You better believe I have a scanned image of each and every check I've written as well as a spreadsheet calculating it all with references to bank and check number. No chance of me not having documented proof! lol
Also - not sure on your jurisdiction, but here at least spousal support is taxable by the recipient whereas child support isn't.
My ex held on to his resentment over my alimony - our kids were grown. I'd mommy tracked my career in order to relieve my ex of all those pesky child-rearing issues that would have interfered with his surfing and mountain climbing and his great career success. My alimony is by the book, actually less than what the formula would give me.
No spousal support in my situation. Based on the length of our marriage ("just" 7 years) and that ExW has a good paying job (just not as much as me), the calculated amount and duration of payment would've been minimal so it was waived. ExW never put aside her career. She always worked part time, before kids and even before we were married, and went full-time just before BD (probably a missed sign?).
And yes, child support is based on disparity and the division given that disparity. It goes towards the cost of housing and living. Food, electric. Mortgage, etc. Not just direct monetary needs of the children.
As for child support - you are contributing to their quality of life. Even with your contribution they will not be living in as affluent a household on either end, as what they had before the divorce. Kids are expensive and this is your obligation. If this helps them live in better housing, have more amenities, go to a better school district, afford a vacation with their mom - these are all things you should be supportive of. In extreme examples, for instance, it would be bad for the kids to live with one wealthy parent and then have to go half the time to live with a poverty-stricken parent in a slum. Child support helps ensure that their quality of life does not vary that greatly from one household to the next. Let go of the resentment, it will only hurt your children.
Well, it's not as if the kids were ever going to live in squalor half the time. ExW has a professional job and earns more than an average income for the area without child support. She did risk her job and actually stunted her career growth through all this, but that was due to the affair with her coworker in the office, not "mommy tracking" and that was certainly not on me. I've always been an extremely involved father and contributed more than my fair share around the house.
It does seem a bit unfair ExW had affairs, split up our family, moved OM2 in with my kids, divorced me...and now I get to help fund her lifestyle! And in my state I actually had to contribute to her legal bills to help her do all that to me, no lie. Money is fungible so who's to say it's even going to help the kids directly. She's made plenty of purchases unrelated to children in the past year and a half.
Don't be that guy - he's losing his relationships with the kids over it. You made a commitment to the kids and this money benefits them directly or indirectly.
Anyway, I'm not actually "that guy". I've never complained a peep to ExW about the checks and wouldn't make it an issue with the kids even if they were old enough to understand. Just a bit of venting here...
Good Morning BL
A bit late, but 2 more cents for you.
Regarding not changing her last name. My XW said something pretty revealing, which at the time I totally didn’t get. I outright asked her about changing her name. It went something like this:
Me: I guess you’ll soon be a <OM Last Name>.
XW: No way! I’m not going to marry him!
Me: Oh, going back to <Maiden Name>?
XW: No way. Too many negative connotations with that name.
I realized the pain she was running from, is from her past. From her family’s past. From her family name.
Your XW isn’t keeping “your” last name to get at you. It’s just a name. Her reasons are, well, her reasons. And those might be pretty confusing. My XW was actually going to change her last name to “Rides in the Wind”. Because she likes to ride her bicycle fast into the wind. In the end she didn’t.
I’d set up an auto transfer of funds for payments. Paper trail, no forgetting, no worry if you go on a holiday, etc.
Have a great day.
D
OH BL.
Of course she’s made purchases not related to the kids in the past year. When someone receives child support it doesn’t mean they aren’t allowed to buy a nice pair of shoes, get their hair done, but a nice new air fryer. I don’t understand the assumption when someone receives child support they should just be living very basically with no extras j less they are for the kids. Does that really make any sense? Child support goes into the cost of the home and bills,
Clothes, food, etc. it’s not just to buy kids stuff directly. She works, so she can buy herself stuff as long as the kids are taken care of, there is a roof over their head, food on the table, etc. it’s an even split pretty much to even out the household disparity because 2 houses are being supported for kids as opposed to one. Your collective money was going into one house, now separate money goes into 2 .
Look, I get a pittance for child support. I make more money, but I have way more time so I get a drop. I am supporting a household in a state you know is insanity. My ex has 2 incomes to go into his house. They have a Hilton timeshare and take nice vacations twice a year, which they do take my D on, they spent a lot on Christmas, I really didn’t have much money this year. I haven’t taken my D on a vacation in years because I can’t afford it. I also put out a heck of a lot more money because she’s with me most of the time. I buy what she needs. Give her money for school stuff, the mall, activities with friends…. My $88/week I’m child support barely covers that.
It stinks. It stinks big time, I get it. But you have to just know that the money is for the children and not her. And if she narrows the gap and gets raises or a better job, well, your payments will be less if your salary doesn’t make much of a change.
I understand where you are coming from. No one wants to see their ex sitting pretty while you yourself struggles. But just know the child support isn’t so she can go buy her self designer handbags
While I agree with what you said, Ginger, I have (sadly) seen the other side of it. My xh's first xw was a real piece of work. We paid her nearly $700 a month (which honestly is NOT a lot when you are looking at raising 3 teenage girls), but we also were the ones who carried the financial burden of school clothes, school expenses, vehicle issues, etc. while xw worked full time, lived in a house paid for by her parents, drove a truck paid for by her parents, had a cell phone paid for by her parents, parents paid her utilities and my xh insisted that WE pay her satellite tv bill so the girls could have satellite tv at her house. What did she pay? Well, her boyfriend at the time had a job where he would travel to a job site in some random state and be there for x number of weeks or months til the job was done, so she used her salary and our child support money to travel to wherever he was every weekend. I wouldn't have even had a problem with that, IF the girls had gone with her, but guess what...the girls got left at our house most weekends. Occasionally she would leave them with her parents. She rarely bought any groceries because the girls always ate at our house or she sponged off people who would take her and the girls out and buy them dinner. Granted, though she worked full time, she barely made above minimum wage, but she paid literally NO bills. Her parents paid everything but her satellite bill, which we paid. Their divorce decree had my xh responsible for the full cost of the girls' medical and dental insurance and any bills over and above insurance were supposed to be split 50/50. We paid our 50%, but guess who paid hers...yep, her parents. So, literally, her only expenses were gas and groceries, but she probably didn't spend $20 a week on groceries. So, she was bringing in probably somewhere in the neighborhood of $200-$2500 a month with her only expense being $50 ish per week in gas to go back and forth to work. I'd like for someone to cut me that kind of deal.
Having said ALL that (sorry for the hijack, by the way, BL), I do think that our situation was an exception and not the rule. I think many single moms do the right thing. I just happened to be privy to one of the situations where that wasn't the case because my girls' mom is a money grubbing h0e.
Hey BL, what's the latest?
Re the last name thing, my STBXW wants to keep my last name because of S5, I think that's totally reasonable if I'm honest and doesn't bother me. Also, if she stays with OM, its a bit of a F U that she's still kept something of mine! Jokes....mostly
DnJ,
Regarding not changing her last name. My XW said something pretty revealing, which at the time I totally didn’t get. I outright asked her about changing her name. It went something like this:
Me: I guess you’ll soon be a <OM Last Name>.
XW: No way! I’m not going to marry him!
Me: Oh, going back to <Maiden Name>?
XW: No way. Too many negative connotations with that name.
I realized the pain she was running from, is from her past. From her family’s past. From her family name.
My ExW didn't explicitly say any of this, but I suspect it may be the same situation as your J. My ExW did cut her dad out of her life for years (he wasn't invited to our wedding) and in the last few years let him back into her life but told him post DB she felt he was abusive to her when she was younger (though her brother disagrees and I'm now of the opinion her mom is the emotional manipulator). Anyway...it wouldn't surprise me if she doesn't want to take his name back. Or it could be the inconvenience, or waiting for OM2's name. Who knows really. Regardless, I'll follow the board's advice and not ask her about it and react without emotions if & when she does change it.
Ginger1/Dawn70,
Of course she’s made purchases not related to the kids in the past year. When someone receives child support it doesn’t mean they aren’t allowed to buy a nice pair of shoes, get their hair done, but a nice new air fryer. I don’t understand the assumption when someone receives child support they should just be living very basically with no extras j less they are for the kids. Does that really make any sense?
While I agree with what you said, Ginger, I have (sadly) seen the other side of it.
Don't want to dwell on this topic because honestly it's not a big cause for grief in my sitch (honestly just felt like a quick vent above), but I will respond briefly. I certainly want my kids to have what they need, and don't begrudge my ExW a new pair of shoes or hair appointment, but do think the law is unfair. The problem is there's no verification the money goes directly to the kids. There's no way to enforce this; money is fungible.
In writing we split the kids 50/50; in practice I care for them more than her (just not based on "nights"). She makes an above average income, has her wealthy mom and step dad in town helping financially, and OM2 living with her (and presumably sharing the household expenses). Yet on top of that I give her the equivalent of her previous mortgage and car payment. Since separation she's made major financial purchases which no one could argue benefited the kids (Caribbean vacation without them, elective surgery...etc.). She was the one who had affairs, split our family, divorced me, moved OM2 in with my kids...yet I have to write her monthly checks?
So yes...it does seem unfair. But no...I don't protest to her, I write the checks each month, and honestly for the most part am able to let it roll off my back.
OnlyBent,
Hey BL, what's the latest?
Hey OB. Lots of good GAL...
Two weekends ago a Christmas party at the club with about two dozen friends.
Submitted (and aced) my final in the first class of my grad school program and got an "A" as my overall grade.
This weekend drinks Friday night with four buddies, Saturday shopping for the kiddos and then a movie alone that night, and yesterday a bus trip for a buddies birthday to see his pro football team in action.
I'm prepping for Christmas Eve Day with the S6 & D3....have word from the North Pole Santa is planning to stop by a day early at our house, plus I'll take the kids church in the evening before dropping them off to ExW.
Christmas Day will be my first without the kiddos so actually based on DejaVu6's suggestion in CWarrior's thread I reached out to my church for volunteer ideas and plan to assist in prepping/serving a free Christmas meal program to the last fortunate for a few hours on Christmas Day before having dinner in the evening with my parents.
I do feel a bit lonely at times without a partner, and there are no prospects on the dating front, but certainly keeping my priorities in the right spot and staying busy / having fun the best I can.