Old thread Rebuilding and renewal - 5
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2922333&page=1It seems that construction is slow.
Nothing much going on - still stupid busy with work and not being able to make time for relationships with friends much less others.
I hope to bake my first cake in quite some time this weekend. Still waiting to hear back from my son if he'll be by on Saturday or not.
Another tough Sunday morning.
Yesterday was busy. My son's birthday is on Wednesday so I invited him over for dinner and cake for last night. My first attempt at a chocolate cake. My daughter was able to provide me with her most reliable recipe and I sort of "winged it" with the icing but it turned out pretty good if I do say so myself. With the cake, fresh bread and a 6 1/2 lb roast of beef to cook (going to be eating stew for quite a while) I can understand the desire for more than one oven. I chose to invite him over for a Saturday dinner vs Sunday because Sunday evenings seem to be taken up with doing prep work for the plant for Monday morning. While I'm doing this, I'm also looking up the capacity of the railcars that we'll be calling in on Monday night. It always surprises me that things like rail outage tables are publicly available but it does simplify things for me because I don't have to wait to actually see the car and read the capacity plates.
I can't recall the last time that I had my son over for dinner - it's been a long time though. It gave me some motivation to do some tidying that I had been putting off. The weather was finally nice enough that I was able to hang my laundry out on the line and I put the couch cover out too to air out and for some of the accumulated cat hair to blow off. So - a busy day which seems to be the state of affairs lately.
We had a nice dinner. He felt a bit awkward blowing his germs over the cake to put the candles out. I did have the moka pot out along with the nice silver coffee pot which was a wedding present from my in-laws and has never been used. He didn't want coffee though and had water instead. He has a hard enough time sleeping so that's not a surprise he didn't want coffee in the evening.
After dinner he packed up about 1/2 the leftover cake to take home and we sat out on the bench outside the front door, had a beer and visited a bit more. I think he's doing ok overall. I let him know that his card was mailed because I know he prefers to wait until his actual birthday to open it. He rarely checks his mail so it was good I let him know.
I did mention about an upcoming doctor's appointment I have made to start looking at a problem with my legs that I've let go far too long. When I was obsessively walking while going through the worst of times 5 years ago I think I overstrained my Achilles tendon. It's been getting progressively worse for the past couple of years - so getting a proper opinion is undoubtedly a good thing. From what I've read though this is probably just something that I'm going to have to live with but getting a professional opinion on that is the smarter choice than just living with it.
After I cleaned up the kitchen I chose to go up and have a soak in the tub with a couple of glasses of wine and also burned some sage to hopefully clear up some of the funk. I was interested to learn that my son has also been soaking in his own tub which isn't as nice as the one here, but certainly a good therapy.
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What's brought me here today though is just a feeling of being in a rut, in a funk. The most exciting thing in my personal life is that I bought new under-gotchies - trying boxer/briefs for the first time. Being the 15th of the month, early this morning was the email letting me know that my XW has deposited her monthly payment. As usual, no note saying "thanks" or anything which is one of the boxes available and obvious when accepting transfers. #44 of 77 - getting there. I occasionally wonder if I did the right thing by agreeing to the fixed payments for fixed term but not having that stress and hassle, much less having to worry about if OM actually contributes enough to support her is good.
I'm lonely but not in a place where I want to deal with the potential difficulties of having someone around. Frustrated with work which has taken over too much of my life - can't run off to sell tacos in Icarina for at least another 33 months according to the math in the prior paragraph.
It took me a while to actually pull myself out of bed today - it was probably close to 10 before I got up. Made myself the same breakfast I usually do although on Sundays now I make coffee instead of tea.
I'm really looking forward to my upcoming vacation on the second week of September. Unlike the past times, I'm going to work hard on disconnecting from work.
Well - the coffee cup is just about empty. I'm going to go "in to town" and buy myself a carafe. I suppose I could use the good silver one regularly but it's not insulated and is rather large. I have the grass to cut, flower beds to weed, my ironing to do. I noticed a scuff on my shoes which despite being steel toe, steel plate and acid resistant are also fairly nice wingtips so will give them a polish.
Going to put the leftovers from last night's dinner in the crock pot to make a stew for dinner. I also have a small butternut squash I'm going to roast up.
Is this the life I would have imagined for myself 6 years ago? No. Divorce, pandemic, all things that never were on my radar. I feel the "need" to make a substantial pivot of some sort, but again, because I don't know where, what or how, I tread along the same old path. If it weren't for roughly 20% of my income going to pay for someone else's upkeep and lifestyle, I'd have a lot more choices available to me. 33 more months. There's nothing really stopping me though as long as I can cover that obligation. Nothing but myself.
Hello Andrew
It’s 9:30 PM on Sunday and I’m at work responding to a 66 kV 40 MVA transformer that is over temperature. It is 90 C! Anyhow got the fans all on in manual and waiting for it to cool down to around 75C before heading home. So here I sit and in the control room, in which the air conditioning broke earlier this week, sweating in 34C and reading your post.
I occasionally wonder if I did the right thing by agreeing to the fixed payments for fixed term…
You definitely did the right and best thing!
What's brought me here today though is just a feeling of being in a rut, in a funk. The most exciting thing in my personal life is that I bought new under-gotchies - trying boxer/briefs for the first time.
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I'm lonely but not in a place where I want to deal with the potential difficulties of having someone around. Frustrated with work which has taken over too much of my life
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It took me a while to actually pull myself out of bed today - it was probably close to 10 before I got up. Made myself the same breakfast I usually do although on Sundays now I make coffee instead of tea.
It takes awhile to accept the past. And even then, it at times still comes around into our focus. Living in the past brings depression and living in the future brings anxiety.
It’s ok to feel lonely. You’ll get through it. After all, feelings are only temporary.
Is this the life I would have imagined for myself 6 years ago? No. Divorce, pandemic, all things that never were on my radar. I feel the "need" to make a substantial pivot of some sort, but again, because I don't know where, what or how, I tread along the same old path. If it weren't for roughly 20% of my income going to pay for someone else's upkeep and lifestyle, I'd have a lot more choices available to me. 33 more months. There's nothing really stopping me though as long as I can cover that obligation. Nothing but myself.
I understand that feel of the “need” for a pivot. Be patient. Decisions based upon feelings are seldom the best ones. And there is nothing wrong with the path you currently tread.
Enlightenment doesn’t happen through meditation while sitting on a mat chanting. It happens while embroiled in anger or depression or sadness. It happens while walking that same old path and poof you realize you have a choice.
That choice a lot of times is to continue walking your fine path. It’s the choice, the conscious purposeful choice to do so that brings one to living in the present.
Living in the present brings peace and contentment. A choice that the enlightened realize and make. A choice that changes almost nothing and yet changes everything.
D
Andrew:
Funks are surely difficult, ruts even worse. It is such a good and healthy thing that even in the midst of yours you are able to go about the little events that day to day comprise the fabric of your life; making proper meals, fixing your place up little by little, taking in your cat, etc. Thirty-three months is not a long time to go. The extra 20% when you have it back will be a nice bonus to your life. I opted to leave with only my own assets (I had lots, him none). I also opted to have him pay the kids rather than pay me. Even when the court made an error that cost me a little money, I ultimately let it go, for a desire to have no lingering connection to him, no reason to think about him, and no standing by the mailbox waiting for anything any longer. The universe has already rewarded me for these decisions many times over. I bought myself a divorce present to celebrate. While I ordered it a couple of months ago, it won't be delivered for about another month. It will provide an excellent vehicle for my freedom map, which includes no ties to that past. Don't regret decisions you made long ago and can't undo even if you want to, it ties you to an unhappier time and place and takes you back there in thinking about it.
I've decided to think of my own emotions as a pot of water draining through a sieve. I put them in the top and they pass through. They aren't backing up, but they also are not hanging around. When I feel a little sad, depressed, etc., I just picture that image and remind myself as our dear friend DnJ says, that feelings change; they come and go; and we can't make decisions based upon them.
To carry yourself to a better place, tell us about your dream getaway--where will you go, what will you do? S and I have been talking about sailing around the Greek Islands (first he plans to learn to sail-something he's wanted to do forever, and odd given his particular sport that he doesn't know how to do it).
Andrew, I think your last few posts referencing your funks/ruts/missing parts of your old life are really healthy, though painful. You were married 26 years; it takes time to grieve that even when you recognize it wasn’t necessarily perfect.
The way it all unfolded was such a huge betrayal. It’s quite shocking when you think you know someone. Be gentle on yourself and give yourself room to continue to heal.
Took a sick day today. Woke up with a bit of nausea, sore ribs and dry throat. Waffled about calling in sick but went in to the plant anyway. After a bit I decided that it was a bad idea and headed home. Fortunately I'm one of the few guys who wears a mask all the time there and I also made sure to sanitize when I had to go through some paperwork.
2 1/2 hour nap later, felt a bit better but after working more in the home office still felt a bit off. Temperature normal as is sense of taste so I've not gone for a Covid test. Been a long time since I've been ill.
When I got home I was surprised by a phone call on the land-line from an agency I've worked with in the past. They had a director level role they wanted me to interview for. Pay is a decent bump up from where I am now. I passed as it is a minimum of 2 1/2 hour drive away, is a "start-up" and is in the utility industry where I've not worked before. I'm a manufacturing and distribution guy. I also really am not looking at adding stress to my life in exchange for cash. I'd rather reduce the stress.
To carry yourself to a better place, tell us about your dream getaway--where will you go, what will you do? S and I have been talking about sailing around the Greek Islands (first he plans to learn to sail-something he's wanted to do forever, and odd given his particular sport that he doesn't know how to do it).
My next trip (other than to visit my daughter) would probably be to the UK. There are a number of museums that I want to visit. I'd also like to go up to Ottawa and do the tourist thing - the only other time I was there was with S and I folded laundry and babysat. Maybe I'll go up there for a day or so next month when I take some time off.
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Learning to sail is useful regardless of if it gets used or not. I would suggest that if your son is interested to look for organized dinghy lessons. That's what I took about 15 years or so ago. An unballasted boat is less forgiving and requires building good skills from the beginning. I also set up my utility trailer as a practice cockpit to get the muscle memory down of how to shift sheets and rudder. Especially if you are using a tiller extension which most small "go fast" boats do, coordinating a the motions of the tiller hand, the one you are holding the mainsheet with and then pivoting from side to side while swapping hands and managing to not flip the boat upside down or get whacked in the head with the boom takes some practice. Since your son is athletic I imagine he'll get it down quickly.
Many dinghy clubs also have club boats where in exchange for your fees and a bit of sweat equity you can take out whenever you like without the burden of ownership. A lot of schools have sailing clubs associated with them too depending on where he's enrolled.
One of the most common boats to learn on and race is the Laser. I learned on a Wayfarer as that's what the club had. The first one I built was based on the Sunfish. A great little boat but required a bit more agility than my chunky middle-aged self was comfortable with. The lack of a jib on some of these means you only have the "go fast" string to worry about.
I hope that you are feeling better today. You were smart in going home and taking care of yourself.
How are you feeling today?
I learned to sail on Lasers - the fun part was, if you were quick enough, as you were capsizing you could jump over the edge of the boat and stand on the dagger board to right it, all in one smooth move, then jump back into the boat. Of course, I was much younger and more nimble at that time!
I hope that you are feeling better today. You were smart in going home and taking care of yourself.
How are you feeling today?
Better. I got to bed early and decided to work from home today which gave me an extra hour of sleep.
I realized this morning that my issue was more due to me over-doing things on the weekend and so probably a minor angina episode - the way I feel is consistent with that. I did have a very busy weekend that involved a lot of yard work. So rest is undoubtedly the best thing for me.
When talking to my boss about why I'm home I did mention that I "overdid it on the weekend" but that I managed to get my grass cut. He's been getting more and more messaging from staff that we just can't keep up. The admin staff is upset because they don't get overtime pay despite putting in crazy hours and are starting to rebel. I doubt anything will change. Right now he's convinced that despite the less people and higher volume of orders that we should be able to handle it without any issue.
I need to figure out how to balance things. We've had unusual weather here for late summer. Usually we're bone dry and I would only have to cut the grass every 2 weeks and not have too many weeds in the garden. Instead we have been getting heat and rain - perfect conditions for growing weeds. I got out my weed dragon on Sunday (essentially a flame-thrower) and toasted down some of the weeds that are taking over my drive. One of my neighbours was kind of disturbed by my wandering around with a beer in one hand and the torch in the other
I related the story of how I once accidentally set fire to the garage and called my wife at the hardware store "so - if you're still in the store, could you pick up another fire extinguisher? Why? Well I just used up the one we had ..." And now I'm completely unsupervised
It did mean though that this past weekend on top of everything else that I had 3 weeks of yard work to try to catch up on. I was almost tempted to see if I could hire one of the neighbourhood kids. Almost.
I expect to be back in to the plant tomorrow. We just installed some new pumps that should make life easier for me in the scheduling I do. I'll probably be poking away at paperwork for some hours - I have about 20 tonnes going up to be drummed off so lots of math figuring that out.
I learned to sail on Lasers - the fun part was, if you were quick enough, as you were capsizing you could jump over the edge of the boat and stand on the dagger board to right it, all in one smooth move, then jump back into the boat. Of course, I was much younger and more nimble at that time!
One thing I liked as well is that if everything was going nuts all you have to do is let go of everything and the boat should automatically right itself, turn up towards the wind and go into irons while you sort yourself out. Probably a relationship metaphor there
Andrew, I learned to sail dinghys and was close to learning to sail a catamaran. No idea what a "laser", "wayfarer", or "sunfish" are. Will have to Google them later. (:
Hope you are feeling better. Glad you took it easy!
Crazy week continues - slowly getting better health-wise but I still know that I'm hurt and healing slower than I would like. Another very late day yesterday. I did a mistake on a loading sheet and we light loaded a customer by about 9 tonnes - scrambling today to make that right. Fortunately they have 2 more loads they are taking today.
I just finally finished my lunch after multiple distractions including walking out the the fence to talk to a driver who was more than an hour early for his appointment. It's amazing how often just talking to people and explaining the situation calms them down and everything works out. Or perhaps it's the shock of seeing someone in a bow tie? I'm wearing the one with the periodic table on it today. I also had to inspect some gaskets ("look a gasket!"), fix a printer, climb up and down some ladders, wave my clipboard at the loaders - all important things I am sure.
Part of my day - which included looking at gaskets involved writing up a report to a customer where I used my best vague tap-dancing words to agree that there was a problem, that we have identified the probable source of the problem, but to avoid any responsibility on the product they already have. They're shipping me back about 6 tonnes of product which will need a secondary inspection and remediation ("look - a gasket!")
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I had a talk to one of the other managers here (not sure where I fit in the org chart) as well as my boss yesterday. In the course of both conversations it was discussed that I'm really not being able to use my skills to the greatest advantage in the various roles I am in. Honest conversations like this are important. They both agreed. And for both of them, there's little that can be done at present. Everyone knows that I'm struggling so there's no sense in hiding that. I am getting progressively better as time goes on but it's painful for all.
What it boils down to is that for probably the next 8 months, this is where I am and I'm doing whatever is needing to be done. My boss has made it clear that there is a place for me here but what that place looks like long term is anyone's guess. I still believe that one of those roles is a partial replacement for him although I would doubt they would give me the title of President. The broad experience being rammed down my throat will do me good in the future, I just have to survive to get there.
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It was my son's birthday yesterday. I texted him and he let me know that he had saved a piece of birthday cake for his lunch. That was nice.
Just some thoughts over Sunday morning coffee. The moka pot does a decent job although I think I need a smaller carafe. The smallest one I could find was still 12 cups and I only really get about 3 even after watering the espresso down into Americano.
Andrew, you sort of remind me of Robert Frost -- a little brusque, a deep awareness of beauty esp in the natural world, and always some insight that shakes me awake. I don't know if you are from the northeast but I always picture you somewhere in New England as a Frost sort of guy.
Awwe shucks. That perhaps explains some things about our bttrfly who is from that part of the world. I'm Canadian but my rural Scotts heritage is pretty strong. Hence things like ties to the land etc being important to me. One of my best friends often comments after he comes to me for advice that I will indeed call a spade a shovel.
P.S. I find it astonishing that many of you believe that your X lurks here and sees what you write.
If that were true, what more proof could any of us need that nothing will change their minds?!
Indeed. Curiosity is a natural human trait. In some ways I imagine that if my XW does indeed follow along here that what I write would probably reinforce that it would be futile to even try to reconcile. Not that I have any expectation of that. I did worry up until a couple of years ago that she would but now that she and OM are very much a couple and have their own house, the things that I imagined would have caused her to pause and reconsider aren't there any more. Those would have been her missing having a house and also not wanting to be alone.
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I've not driven by her house much in recent times - I've had errands that put me in other parts of town so that short-cut doesn't apply. The times I have, there have generally been no vehicles in the drive at all. Presumably she and OM are out separately doing their own thing.
She did cross my mind a bit yesterday and this morning. Yesterday we had a strong storm roll through from the east. Down here in the valley I'm pretty protected from most really bad weather so don't worry too much. She was also interested in the weather and one thing that she always watched for was a storm coming in from the east - which is highly unusual and generally indicates a very severe storm. We've had quite a lot of strong storms lately as well as extreme heat which is unusual as well.
The other thing was I saw a notice this morning that the humourist Jeanne Robertson has passed. We were fans of her gentle humour and quick wit. I strongly encourage anyone who needs an uplifting story to check out her numerous videos. The one that was our entry to this woman's humour was "Don't send a man to the grocery store" about her husband who she refers to as "Left Brain". Most people who know me would agree that I am rather a left brain sort like in this story. She had lost her husband fairly recently and like seems to happen, she passed as well not too long after. I may have to make a 7-Up pound cake.
For the first time in a very long time I almost felt like breaking no-contact and letting my XW know of this - but - no.
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In other news, the cat now has a collar with a bell on it. Other than some initial confusion, he's taken well to it. Now if he does get out, which he's only shown occasional interest in, it's obvious that he has a home. I also have him microchipped and if he did get out much of the village would be mobilized I'm sure to find him.
I've also been poking away at the 2nd Raspberry Pi computer I bought recently. I've got it set up to be a media and file server so that I can easily access the copious amount of entertainment that I have and also do backups more easily. The first one I bought I use as a web server to host the old web site I no longer actively update about my boat-building projects and that also hosts the webcam pointing out of my front porch window. Since it's connected to the internet, I don't put anything on there that I can't afford to have hacked.
Speaking of boats, I think I've decided to part with my sloop in the spring. She hasn't gotten used other than as a Halloween decoration for many years and just sits in the shed. To replace her, I'm thinking of building a Puddle Duck sailboat over the winter. A simple scow hull that I'll probably rig with a sprit sail that will be light enough and simple enough that I can get out on the water on a whim rather than it being an all-day production. There's a couple of nice small lakes between here and where I work that I could go to. Years ago when I had the MiniCup I would put it on the top of my Jeep and launch for a couple of hours on the way home from work. I believe it to be true that smaller boats get more use than bigger ones.
It's another hot sticky day here with a chance of thunderstorms later in the day. I think that I'll maybe go for a wander along some trails and then do some of the office work I need to do to be ready for Monday. 3 emails already from my boss reminding me of this and that. The man never switches off.
Andrew, you sort of remind me of Robert Frost -- a little brusque, a deep awareness of beauty esp in the natural world, and always some insight that shakes me awake. I don't know if you are from the northeast but I always picture you somewhere in New England as a Frost sort of guy.
Awwe shucks. That perhaps explains some things about our bttrfly who is from that part of the world. I'm Canadian but my rural Scotts heritage is pretty strong. Hence things like ties to the land etc being important to me. One of my best friends often comments after he comes to me for advice that I will indeed call a spade a shovel.
you mean being brusque?? lol
The other thing was I saw a notice this morning that the humourist Jeanne Robertson has passed. We were fans of her gentle humour and quick wit. I strongly encourage anyone who needs an uplifting story to check out her numerous videos. The one that was our entry to this woman's humour was "Don't send a man to the grocery store" about her husband who she refers to as "Left Brain". Most people who know me would agree that I am rather a left brain sort like in this story. She had lost her husband fairly recently and like seems to happen, she passed as well not too long after. I may have to make a 7-Up pound cake.
For the first time in a very long time I almost felt like breaking no-contact and letting my XW know of this - but - no.
Wasn't that a shock? I've been enjoying her live from the porch FB shows since she started them a bit ago. Exh turned me on to her about two years before BD. He found her on Sat radio ... our first was the story about the bat in her bedroom. She was a sweetheart. My grandma used to say that if someone was really sick a full moon would pull them right down. There was a full moon this morning. I did think of exh but not off contacting him. He's in town this week. Yes, her husband passed mid June I think it was. They seemed like a very devoted couple. At least they are together now.
There's been a lot of discussion over the years here on the topic of forgiveness. Many of the people posting here are also people of Faith and even though I'm not personally, that perspective is important.
I thought about posting this on DnJ's thread but didn't want to clutter it up too much.
I was thinking about this last night and decided to turn the problem upside down and look at it from the other direction. What does an unforgiving or unforgiven mean? Holding a grudge could be considered a synonym perhaps.
Merriam Webster defines grudge as "a feeling of deep-seated resentment or ill will" - an active word. Unforgiving is also an active word where the resentment is in the forefront of the thoughts of the other I would think.
I think that there is like with many things a range of values. Have I forgiven my XW? No. Will I ever? Probably not. Do I dwell on thoughts of what she did and her lack of apparent remorse? Not really and certainly less as time goes by. I certainly don't actively wish her any harm although will admit to occasionally feeling smug when it appears that karma may be visiting even if it is only in my imagination.
My lack of forgiveness though doesn't (I hope) keep me stuck although for some reason 5 years later I'm still on this forum working through my various issues. I was particularly struck by bttrfly's comment that she no longer prays for her XH. I know that prayer is very important to her and is evidence of her compassion for others in that she actively wishes for good things for people. Does her lack of prayer mean she wishes for bad things? I strongly doubt that. I believe that it means that she has moved on to a place where she has let go of any thoughts that she could intervene on his behalf. Leaving his path to God as it were.
For me, I've not felt any sort of moral obligation towards my XW for quite some time. She's a bill I pay every month and some paperwork that needs to be dealt with when the support agreement runs out. I will probably have to remind her at that time to make some adjustments to an insurance policy that she has on me that I am obliged to pay for.
Would I be able to deal with encountering her "in the wild" or heaven forefend - a family event? I hope so although undoubtedly it would be hard - presumably for both of us.
If something happened to her and she called out for aid, would I? Probably - just like I would help any person whether I liked them or not. That is part of my moral code. But I would not feel the need to rush to her aid unasked. My days of protecting her and cleaning up her messes ended when it became clear that she preferred OM to me even if she was still apparently keeping me as a plan b.
I like to think that I'm in a middle-place. Where I've neither forgiven nor am unforgiving. Meh as some will call it. Not always an easy balance but as long as you keep your eyes on the horizon and not the tight-rope it's easier.
Enough philosophy for now.
Where I've neither forgiven nor am unforgiving. Meh as some will call it.
Do I dwell on thoughts of what she did and her lack of apparent remorse? Not really
Would I be able to deal with encountering her "in the wild" or heaven forefend - a family event? I hope so although undoubtedly it would be hard
Cultivating forgiveness is probably more important for WAS/LBS who have many years of raising a child together on their horizon. You may see your ex's car, but you rarely see your ex. Your resentment doesn't need to be zero, it just needs to be low enough it doesn't interfere with your life. I have negative thoughts about my parents monthly. That's too often. I have no negative thoughts about my XW (11yrs ago). I occasionally have negative thoughts about my XGF (9mo ago). It's a journey.
My lack of forgiveness though doesn't (I hope) keep me stuck although for some reason 5 years later I'm still on this forum working through my various issues. I was particularly struck by bttrfly's comment that she no longer prays for her XH. I know that prayer is very important to her and is evidence of her compassion for others in that she actively wishes for good things for people. Does her lack of prayer mean she wishes for bad things? I strongly doubt that. I believe that it means that she has moved on to a place where she has let go of any thoughts that she could intervene on his behalf. Leaving his path to God as it were.
WOW. NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE! In fact, what I thought I said was that it really upsets me to think that my exh doesn't have anyone in his life presently who prays for him. I don't consider myself to be in his life, which may be where the confusion set it. I DO pray for him, and will continue to pray for him, that he finds peace, that he is happy and healthy, that he and our son find their way back to each other for more than an occasional dinner or video game.
I don't consider prayer to be intervening on anyone's behalf. To me prayer is an active form of love. Just because we aren't together anymore doesn't mean that we weren't together for more than half our lives, with much of that relationship being quite the antithesis of how it ended. This may not make a lot of sense to anyone here, and it doesn't have to because it makes sense to me. I know the pain he's in. We've talked about our son a few times in the past couple of months. Where I know that I've done all I can to help our son, exh has to live with the choices he's made and the results of those choices. How could I not pray for him? It doesn't mean I want him back as a lover or a partner. It does mean that I see beyond all the MLC BS to the real person struggling underneath and that is the person I pray for. One doesn't kick someone else, especially when they are down.
Maybe this is where forgiveness lies for me, beneath all the MLC BS there is a real person, struggling mightily, lashing out because that's the best they can do in the moment, making decisions impulsively, in my exh's case, and emotionally, not rationally, because that is what he does. I forgive the person who is struggling. I have no need to fix or rescue or otherwise engage with the person who is acting out on their MLC crap.
Is this more clear? Does this make more sense?
Is this more clear? Does this make more sense?
Sorry that I misunderstood you - this clarifies things a lot. As I said, I'm not a person of Faith and lack understanding on how it can guide you as a caring human being.
Forgiveness is not about saying what they did was okay. It's most definitely NOT okay. Forgiveness is about letting go of the grudge, as Andrew put it. It's about not letting the pain and the anger affect YOU. Forgiveness of them is a gift you give yourself.
I'm not sure I would actively pray for my ex - he fired me from that job long ago. I did used to send him occasional medical articles related to his medical conditions that I think he would not have seen but have stopped doing that too since he's not seemed receptive. I do care enough to not wish him ill, as I would for any other person. And I can see now what a limited person he is, how his issues have kept him from living as full and happy a life as one would wish for. But he had his chance - probably his BEST chance - at that with me, and you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. His decisions were such that he does not really deserve any more of my energy. He doesn't spark anything more than idle curiosity in me any more - no anger, no pain. If I was holding on to resentments it would only harm ME.
I often feel we get lost in the semantics of these things; each essentially holding similar views and using different words. I still think those who are here are here because they deeply loved their spouses (even if not returned) and hoped for reconciliation (even if not realistic). I'm not religious. If I were, I would pray for my spouse. Despite the things he has done, the love I felt was real and the person I choose to be does not wish ill on others, even those who harm me. Mine hurt me very badly. He hurt himself even worse. There is no greater loss he could have suffered than our children. I don't know why he steadfastly refuses to right even that wrong. I wanted a nice divorce and would have resolved the case on far more favorable terms to him, but he refused to sit down and talk about it which I tried many times to do and ultimately decided to let him shoot himself in the foot. I guess I'm the beneficiary of his choices, but it still makes me sad. While I didn't want to vacation Hollywood-style with he and OWifey, I did want a divorce with kindness, respect, and shared concern for our children now and in the future, adult or not (adult kids often need help too, particularly those who survived the brutality of these types of divorces as we read here and elsewhere all the time).
Busy busy week. Working from home today and woke up at 5:50 to a message from a customer sent at 4:30 that their 6:00 pickup was going to be late. So - yet another call to the plant while I'm in my PJs.
My boss is technically on vacation which means that he spends more time scrutinizing what everyone is doing. I have a 6 point missive from him of things I've done that he questions, things he thinks I should be doing and things he thinks I shouldn't be doing.
Le sigh.
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I did have a nice call with my daughter yesterday. Our usual practice, especially with her now in a different time-zone is that we call while I drive. We had been using Skype but since she has free North America calling, we used cell which was much more reliable on the rural roads I drive between here and the plant.
We chatted about this that and the other thing. She and her H are settling in to their new home well and she finds it nice that he is home most nights. Yesterday he was at a site and had to stay overnight.
She hopes to stay in this house for at least 10 years and is even thinking of getting herself a flock of chickens. It turns out that in at least her part of Seattle that backyard chickens are common with several of her neighbours having a few. Since she is her father's daughter, she wants "interesting chickens" with unique types of eggs. I know very little about this despite having grown up around chickens both of the standard and unique variety but it should be - ahem - interesting.
Our last call shockingly was in May. We both agree that that was far far too long and will try to do better. I reminded her as well that phones work in both directions. We do communicate in some fashion pretty much daily so the lack of an actual phone call isn't too much of a worry.
She is - as usual - fairly annoyed with her brother who doesn't communicate to anyone at all. She asked if he'd gotten his birthday card - which I don't know the answer to but assume that yes he did. He's always been like this and isn't going to change but he and I do have our regularly scheduled brunch visits.
I had been musing to myself about her and her H coming here for a visit. It's easier for Americans to come here than the other way around. There's really nothing much attracting her to here though other than her mother and I and brother. Her best friend actually lives on the West coast as well. She and her brother never were close although they get along perfectly fine. Growing up they each did their own thing most of the time and both were introverts.
I really can't see her making the trip though when she knows that I at least am looking forward to seeing her there. No clue about her mom. I do know that she visited in San Diego right at the start of the pandemic. I really have no insight into their relationship but know that they weren't as close as she and I even before the split. She was pretty upset with her mother I know first for leaving and then even more when she found out why. I do know that her mother was actually a bit jealous on how close we were - we used to spend a lot of time together - she was always up for a trip to the hardware store or getting up early for breakfast out with Dad while her Mom slept in.
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Had an interesting conversation with one of the plant operators yesterday. A surprising (to me) number of the staff at the plant are divorced. This particular operator is about the same age as me but is actively looking to date. He's had a couple of bad experiences as well. His opinion is that many middle-aged women are looking for someone to take care of them, or even when they are financially independent look to spend their days traveling and having adventures. And they are very particular that whoever they partner with fit exactly into how they want to live their lives. One was passionate about kayaking and insisted that he - while they were dating - get his own kayak and spend as much time on the water as she did. Not his interest, nor the woman who wanted him to always go out golfing with her. He keeps trying though.
Ah well - time to focus more completely on work.
Happy Friday!
I will probably get blow back for this but in regards to your last paragraph about middle-aged women wanting a partner to fit into exactly what they want, I say it is about d@mn time! Think about it....I know you are just a few years older than me so we are totally in the same age group, but it is the norm that women fit themselves into their men's lives. Women move to the man's home or town, women may change careers to accommodate their new relationship/marriage, women tend to defer to men (not always, but kind of as a general rule) so I think it is high time that women put themselves first and seek partners who are willing to fit into the women's world rather than just automatically expecting the women to fit into theirs. I think it is a societal norm for women to be the flexible ones and bend to the other person, but I think that is a bit antiquated. Yes, it could be argued that men tend to be the bigger breadwinners, but why does that have to matter when it comes to personal interests?
I look at my own situation. I earn more money than Sparky does and while I compromised and moved to his home, we work very hard to maintain an even partnership. We both plan activities and outings and if there is something that one of us REALLY wants to do, the other does it with a smile on our face because we know it is a compromise. I am not a gamer and Sparky is, so sometimes on Saturday or Sunday afternoon, I'll pull out a good book and he'll turn on his game system and we'll spend a couple of hours lost in our own interest. Last Saturday, we went out of town to get his glasses fixed and we were going to go out for lunch while there. I wanted to go in Hobby Lobby to look at fall decor, so Sparky went in with me. Now was he burning with excitement to go in? Absolutely not. But did he slap a smile on his face and walk all over the dang store with me looking at stuff and conversing with me while I oohed and aahed at how cute stuff was? Absolutely! Afterwards, I asked him to select our lunch spot. He chose a place that I like but it wouldn't have been my choice on that particular day. Did I say anything? Nope, I just went in and picked my favorite thing on the menu and we had a nice lunch and chat before heading home. I say all that to say that it should be a give and take. I sometimes do things that might not be my choice because it is something he wants and vice versa. For far too long, women have just taken a back seat and acted as though their choices or interests didn't matter. So, if middle aged women who are financially independent and want a partner to fit into their world are out here trying to date, then I say more power to them. Get it, girl!!!!!!
So, if middle aged women who are financially independent and want a partner to fit into their world are out here trying to date, then I say more power to them. Get it, girl!!!!!!
Absolutely. And if I do date again that is something that I need to be comfortable with. My (now X) wife and I used to always say that the three magic words that "saved our marriage" were "Have fun dear"
That was part of did make it work for so long though. We had some common interests, supported each other in the various activities and also did our own things. She'd attend some of the launches of the boats I built (in part to be prepared to call emergency services
) and I'd go and cheer her on at her endurance races and ferry stuff back and forth when she did her volunteer work.
When I dated B one of the things that bothered me was when she said that she would put me ahead of her kids. Er - no.
I think the challenge comes in flexibility and respect. Knowing what the hard lines are - for example, I'm not moving and I'm not giving up the cat (a main point of conflict with B). That I'm not cooking every weekend for an extended family (problem with S). By the sounds of these women, if my colleague wasn't as in to their activities as much as they were, it was a hard pass. And that's good if that's where they are. Our own CWarrior has looked for that level of synergy at least in the past.
What I think those of us who have dated have experienced though is that in many cases that each person expects the other to fit into a pre-determined mold - in many cases shaped by an ex-partner. That's where spending time on your own does certainly make a difference. I loved my wife and was content with the life that we had. But that doesn't mean that I'm looking to replace her. After-all how many 4'11" extra curvy women with a bad temper are there out there?
When I first dated I did though imagine a new partner doing the same things, acting the same way as she did. And that would have been difficult.
I would imagine that those who run off like she did and don't have a gap of any sort between partners have quite a bit of difficulty in adapting to the differences and visa versa. Or perhaps not - I have zero experience with having a side piece. Hopefully OM is good at making coffee in the morning before anyone else is up and immediately dropping whatever he's doing to fix something or help out.
I think you and Sparky have what sounds like a good balance. I still remember my days of going bra shopping and then going for lunch at a nice cafe or stopping off at a museum.
What I think those of us who have dated have experienced though is that in many cases that each person expects the other to fit into a pre-determined mold - in many cases shaped by an ex-partner.
I get what you’re saying. When the ex leaves there is a gap, and people freshly out of relationships are often looking for someone to fill that gap minus one or two changes. Someone who’s been on their own for a spell is often more flexible, open to any configuration that enriches their lives.
I think balance is the key. Shared interests in good or then why even be together? But different interests is good in that it keeps both of you entertained, for lack of a better description. My XH never got that. He wanted me to be gung ho about all of his stuff, but didn't particularly care for any of mine. So, we always did stuff he wanted to do, but if I wanted to do something he would fuss and act like a drama queen and eventually, very begrudgingly, go along. Sparky and I have more common interests, so that makes it easier, but we also have some very different interests. The difference between my XH and Sparky is that Sparky encourages me to embrace those differences and go do my own thing if I want to while my XH would get his feelings hurt if I wanted to go spend an afternoon or evening with my girlfriends or my family or whatever without him. It wasn't about leaving him out, it was about doing something he didn't give a d@mn about. I think that finally clicked for me on the day he moved all of his belongings out of our house. I had planned to be gone from the house that day, but ended up getting sick, so I just stayed in the bedroom with the door closed because he'd already taken all of his personal stuff out of the bedroom and I was keeping all the furniture in there, so he had no reason to come in. It was Daytona 500 Sunday, so I laid in bed with Molly and the tv cranked up loud so I couldn't hear him bustling about loading up his stuff and I watched the entire Daytona 500 completely uninterrupted. He HATED NASCAR and always made fun of me for watching it. That was the first time since he and I had gotten married that I watched an entire race. Now, if I want to watch a race, Sparky will watch with me because he likes NASCAR. He also likes rodeos which are another huge interest of mine. My dad was a rodeo cowboy when I was born (a bull rider) so it has always been a part of my life. XH thought it was stupid and too hot outside to go watch live. Wouldn't even watch the big ones like National Finals Rodeo with me on tv. Sparky is all in if I say, hey, let's find a rodeo on tv.
I would never put Sparky before my girls or my niece and nephews who are even more like my own babies to me than the girls are, but he knows that. And, he would never put his beloved daughter H before me and I know that....as it should be. We are each other's priority in our daily life because we are in the trenches together, so to speak, but if push came to shove we both know we would take care of our kids first, even though they are all adults now. That is another place Sparky and my XH differ. The thing that my XH initially liked about me was how close I was with my family and my niece and nephews in particular, but it became a point of contention near the end of our marriage, with him telling me things like I was only happy when I was with them, but not with him. It was in his mind and not reality, but it was his reality because it was his perception. Sparky embraces my family and my love for them and is grateful to finally be included in a large family because his is smaller. He has an aunt and 3 cousins on his mom's side a 1 aunt left on his dad's side. His cousins are all a good bit younger than him so he never really had a real close bond with them. I, on the other hand, have a whole slew of aunts, uncles, and cousins, all of whom I have a relationship and bond with. Sparky feels included in that big, loud, crazy redneck bunch. My XH never did, though, they included him just as they have Sparky. That was XH's lack of confidence, though, so it was on him.
Anyway, yeah, I agree with what you are saying. And, maybe there are some who are inflexible and disrespectful in their desires to have someone fit into a certain mold. I don't agree with that, for sure. I think it does take mutual respect, flexibility, boundaries, communication to strike that balance of "our time" vs. "me time". You have to have 2 partners who are both willing to make those adjustments. Not everyone is, sadly.
Sorry for the lengthy hijacks.
My XH never got that. He wanted me to be gung ho about all of his stuff, but didn't particularly care for any of mine. So, we always did stuff he wanted to do, but if I wanted to do something he would fuss and act like a drama queen and eventually, very begrudgingly, go along.
Were you married to MY narcissist, Dawn???
for example, I'm not moving
Andrew, just curious about why you flatly and absolutely refuse to consider moving out of your house?
I ask, only because it's an interesting choice for a single man to live in such a big home, especially as it's so far away from your workplace (and pretty much everything else too it seems). It requires a lot of maintenance and cleaning. It is expensive to furnish and heat. You don't use it for building boats any more (and other places will be fine for that anyway) and keeping it as a storage facility for friends and family is nice, but not really logical.
Unless it is an ancestral home, I'd surmise your fierce determination to stay to be that you're grasping the last thing you shared with XW and your children. That you haven't, and will never, let go. Would that be a fair assessment?
for example, I'm not moving
Andrew, just curious about why you flatly and absolutely refuse to consider moving out of your house?
I ask, only because it's an interesting choice for a single man to live in such a big home, especially as it's so far away from your workplace (and pretty much everything else too it seems). It requires a lot of maintenance and cleaning. It is expensive to furnish and heat. You don't use it for building boats any more (and other places will be fine for that anyway) and keeping it as a storage facility for friends and family is nice, but not really logical.
Unless it is an ancestral home, I'd surmise your fierce determination to stay to be that you're grasping the last thing you shared with XW and your children. That you haven't, and will never, let go. Would that be a fair assessment?
Fair question and one that I've given a lot of thought to.
There are two sides to this. The practical and the emotional.
First off - while it may seem from what I write that I'm far away from everything, I'm actually in the middle of everything. Work is an hour away, nature is right in my back yard, shopping 8 minutes, bake shop with delicious food less than a block. One of the world's premiere live theatres is a bit over an hour away. Brewery 3 blocks, park with walking trails 1/2 a block.
When I worked in Toronto - a 2 1/2 hour drive away, there were people who lived in the Toronto region who I worked with that had as long of a commute.
From a financial point of view, this is a cheap place to live. My electricity bill 2 months ago was less than $60. It costs me $165/week on my mortgage. I couldn't move into a one bedroom apartment for that sort of money - in fact my son pays more for his apartment. Now there are maintenance costs and other utilities. I just pulled up my budget worksheet and last year I spent all in $19,636.55 to live here inclusive of all costs, or $1,636.38 / month. And that would have included having S and her crew here, buying stuff to support that and the much larger utility bills they created. The house is already furnished although I do want to pick up some furniture for one of the spare rooms and the dining room but that will be done most likely through a thrift shop. The older furniture they have there would fit better into this old and slightly eclectic house.
In talking to friends who are real estate agents, I actually probably wouldn't get a lot for this place despite it's size and convenient location. When they did the "opinion of value" during my divorce, they described this place accurately as "tired". My XW's small 2 bedroom house in a not great neighbourhood less than 10 minutes away was bought for 80% more than what this place was valued at. Unless a buyer came in who overlooks the "tired" of the house, the undersized electrical, the ancient wood windows and crooked walls and floors but instead sees the 9 1/2' high ceilings, original red oak wood work through much of the house, buckets of space then it won't go for a lot. My friends said that my best plan is to sell this place, when I eventually do, to a young family that doesn't mind doing a bit of painting etc and gets a big 4 bedroom home with a master suite (2 doors between Mom and the kids in that bathroom) and big back yard.
So - why would I spend more money to live in a small box just to be marginally closer to work? A one bedroom apartment in the town where the plant is is $1,370 / month with no garden, no yard, no workshop and shared walls with neighbours.
On the emotional side, first off, any ghost of my XW are long gone from here. Yes, she picked out the wallpaper with it's hearts and flowers in the kitchen. She took most of the "valuable" artwork which I've replaced with originals I've picked up at charity auctions or directly from the artists at one of the many art festivals that are hosted in this area. One of my favourite pieces cost me $15 and the young girl who painted it was thrilled at how happy I was with it. The wallpaper in the room I'm typing this in is probably older than I am (and badly in need of removal). I do have some memories of the kids in this house but their stuff is (more or less) long gone. My son has 2 large chests in the front hall closed of "stuff" like baby blankets etc.
It's maybe a cultural thing, but my family has always been attached to "the land". I've lived in this house my entire adult life. One thing S was very right on is that it's tough for someone new to come in to someone's home that is very much "their's". I've planted trees that are over 30' tall. My lialacs that I planted are thriving. The black currant bush was a gift from my grandfather. Walking away from all that will be difficult even if inevitable.
Staying in this area is also important to me. My family has been in this area for nearly 200 years. I'm probably related in one fashion or another to 70% of the "old families". One of my cousins still farms the original farm we purchased from the Crown in the 1830s. I have my cemetery plot already selected and paid for on a hillside looking north towards where I grew up.
I do know that one day I will leave here when I can no longer care for the place even with help. My children have no interest in it which I have been told very clearly. We've actually had the conversations to determine exactly how they would sell the place in case something happens to me.
It is possible that a new partner could persuade me to move out of here but there would have to be some incredibly solid reasons behind it.
Thank you though OwnIt for asking the question.
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Nice slow start to the day. I made strawberry pancakes this morning for breakfast complete with local maple syrup. I'm disappointed because I bought a small container of strawberries a week ago and haven't eaten them down like I should have and now some have gone bad.
My doctor's appointment was very brief with him quickly diagnosing what probably is wrong with my feet based on my story and symptoms. His diagnosis is that when I was walking so very much 5 years ago that I created micro-tears in my tendons and that calcium has built up in them. He gave me a set of exercises that I need to do to stretch and have the tendons heal properly. I also questioned some red "freckles" that have appeared on my feet and legs following the infection I got when S's cat scratched me. He said that it's just old blood, nothing to worry about and probably won't go away.
He's a nice man, very clear and I trust him. I need to figure out how to fit these exercises into my day and some sort of charting process to keep me accountable for doing the various routines and repetitions. I reached out to SIL2 who is a fitness trainer for some help on that.
I came across a picture from 5 years ago when I had hit my goal weight by doing the aforementioned walking and the "divorce diet" and had lost 50 lbs. I've put pretty much all of it back on again but am probably over-all healthier. My heavens - my face looked almost skeletal. Certainly not healthy although everyone kept telling me that I looked good.
Well - running late. If I don't get to the flower shop when they expect me, I get stern looks and a talking-to from "F".
Have a great day all.
Lovely to read your answer, but it was devvo not I who asked it. I totally get why that's a deal-breaker for you, having had the experience with S you did straight out of the gate trying to get you to sell and get rid of your cats. I just moved into my house but think it unlikely I would ever move out for someone else (or indeed let someone move in here) and I'm definitely not getting rid of my cat for anyone. I think if I ever am in a relationship it will be with someone who maintains their own place, their own life, and I see a few times a week and travel with. I'm not raising any more kids or men (and whoever told you middle aged women want to be taken care of is ridiculous, every one I know has been the caretaker and is closing down shop on that). Take heart Andrew, there are middle aged women out there who would admire your commitment to your house, your cat, and not want to take over your life or have you support them.
It's maybe a cultural thing, but my family has always been attached to "the land". I've lived in this house my entire adult life. One thing S was very right on is that it's tough for someone new to come in to someone's home that is very much "their's". I've planted trees that are over 30' tall. My lialacs that I planted are thriving. The black currant bush was a gift from my grandfather. Walking away from all that will be difficult even if inevitable.
Interesting that you brought this up today, when I had been thinking about something similar. The land I live on was bought by my Dad and Mom almost 50 years ago. My Dad had always loved this particular street and these two lots, and jumped on the chance when he was able to buy it. The house I spent my childhood in, however, was built by my parents on land given to them by my maternal grandmother. It had been in our family since 1890. I was just thinking last night that I don't know of any other people who, when they move, also bring their plants with them, but that's just what my parents did. When they sold our house, which had become commercially zoned, the buyer didn't want any of the plants, as he was just going to tear it all down and pave it over.
As a result, there are plants at my parents house which have been alive as long as I have and longer. We have my grandmother's peonies. We have my favorite shrub, a double mock orange which is so beautiful and brings me so much joy every year when she blooms. There are others, but those immediately come to mind. I've thought about what to do if I ever move or sell. Those plants have to come with me. As a former realtor I know that one can add anything in as an exclusion, and many gardeners do exclude certain plantings.
Being tied to the land is a blessing and something else as well. On the one hand there is a comfort in feeling like one is part of something larger, something which grounds one. On the other, if one has to leave the land, sell it, it can be a deep pain that is hard to completely heal.
Just some random thoughts on a Saturday.
Had a decent weekend. I had hoped to have brunch with my son on Sunday but our wires must have gotten crossed and he was a no-show. He responded to my morning text that evening and we are on for next week.
I baked Jeanne Robertson's 7-up pound cake in some small silicone loaf pans that I have. I cut the recipe to 1/5 and it worked out well. I'll certainly do that again. I had one loaf for dinner (cut glaze recipe to 1/10) and froze the other. It was fun and I think was a good tribute to the lady. We can't post links here but the recipe should be easy to find. The 1/5 was a semi random number that worked out because the original recipe called for 5 eggs.
It was quite tasty and easy to make. Certainly not something I'd have regularly because there's quite a lot of sugar that goes in to it. It also highlighted one of my regular bachelor cooking annoyances. The cut-down recipe called for 1 1/2 tbsp of shortening - which I didn't own. I thought of substituting duck fat or butter but wanted to follow the recipe this first time. So now I own a pound of shortening with a couple of scoops out of it that I might never use again. Similar to the jug of molasses I bought for making rib sauce a few months ago.
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Ethical conundrum brings me here. We are very short staffed and the admin staff are getting up there in years - all in their 60s. One of them told me that she is absolutely going to quit before spring. The company president has been avoiding hiring more people for a variety of reasons that make sense to him. Typing this out has re-assured me that I should just keep my big yap closed and let things play out as they will rather than figuring out a way to bring it to his attention. I expect he's already somewhat aware.
I'd just ask said employee who confided in you for sufficient official advance notice so that you have time to hire and for her to train someone.
I agree with K ... Andrew, did you watch Jeanne's service on youtube? Beaver and Patrick both spoke. The 7 up pound cake recipe is in video form on youtube. Google Jeanne Robertson left brain's 7 up pound cake.
I absolutely loved her.
One of them told me that she is absolutely going to quit before spring. The company president has been avoiding hiring more people for a variety of reasons that make sense to him.
I'd just ask said employee who confided in you for sufficient official advance notice so that you have time to hire and for her to train someone.
I like kml's solution. If her concern is retribution and your boss is that kind of person, he's dug his own grave so to speak, but you could suggest an anonymous e-mail about "an admin leaving" as her end date approaches.
I agree with K ... Andrew, did you watch Jeanne's service on youtube? Beaver and Patrick both spoke. The 7 up pound cake recipe is in video form on youtube. Google Jeanne Robertson left brain's 7 up pound cake.
I absolutely loved her.
I didn't watch her service. I should. I am sure that there was a lot of warmth and love there. I did see the video she put up making the cake with her friend - it was a lot of fun. Are you going to try to make the cake? I cut the ingredients to 1/5 - had to convert cups to tbsp and tbsp to tsp and tsp to "whatever feels good". The glaze I cut to 1/10 - just enough for one of the little cakes.
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@Andrew, I'd love to hear your experiences, if you get time to write about them.
Well, things to do! If I do dip my toe back in, no sexy times for a while.
he has written about them. at length. go look at his past threads. don't make him re-live it all.
It's pretty much exactly 2 years ago when I was exiting one relationship and then S swooped in to claim me as her own and I allowed it to happen. I went back and had a re-read myself - certainly a kick in the feels. My heavens - how the world and I have changed. Back then I believed in true love and all that stuff. Now - perhaps more cynical. It's certainly going to take me some time to learn to trust someone.
Some of the speculation that B had ended up going back to her husband was indeed true. For a particular value of true at least. The story making the rounds was that her H got sick and she went up to take care of him - no clue what the reality is / was. Again - a warning about dating separated people even if they have been living apart for some time. Since that relationship was ending, there was a fair amount of discussion about the fact that we were fundamentally incompatible people although it was pointed out that some of the reasons she gave for ending things certainly did sound disingenuous.
I did get the urge to have a look to see if I could see what she is currently up to. She keeps her social media fairly private and always has but I did see her posting looking for a moving company to move her from where she is "up north" to a town about 30 minutes away from where I live. Makes sense - she'll be closer to her family including her kids and grandkids. If we assume that what I know is true then it's possible that she and her H sold the lake-front property, probably for a good price and have moved back here. His kids / her step-kids are also in this area.
It's doubtful that our paths will cross. I wish her well. She was a very loving person who was in some ways a bright moment on my journey. Re-reading does reinforce though that even if the opportunity were to come up that she's someone best left in my past.
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Other things going on 2 years ago made me annoyed but it's also in the past. One of my SIL (who I no longer have anything to do with and visa versa) had reached out to my XW to update her on my single status - yes - WTF. And there was a note in there that she already knew because our son had been keeping her updated. Le sigh. I'm sure he still does - not that I have anything to hide.
Ah well - the railway didn't switch out/in the cars last night that I had planned on so the backup plan is in place making things a bit easier for the guys in the plant but then they decided to not do anything so I had to wander out and wave my clipboard in what I hope was an authoritative fashion.
Sooo looking forward to vacation next week.
{{{{{Andrew}}}}}
Another point of view is look at how far you've come! Great job!!! I'm proud of you! Don't worry about the cynicism; it will fade in time. S put you through the wringer, and sorry buddy, but to be frank you also put yourself through the wringer a bit too in that relationship. I think it was necessary to learn what you needed to learn. You're a stronger, wiser version of Andrew these days. I do wish that our wisdom and strength as humans didn't have to come at such a cost (speaking for myself here).
It's still online if you want to watch Jeanne's service. Just skip to Beaver and Patrick. That's the best part.
I may make a pound cake but there's no one to eat it except my son, and I'm not sure he will. Although, now that I think about it, we've spent many Sundays at my bestest gf's house, my sister from another mister, and her aunt usually comes by so that's a good place to share a 7 up pound cake. Since last Sunday was my BFF's bday and tomorrow is mine, maybe I will make it.
"Last working day" before vacation. I do have a few things I need to take care of for Corporate unfortunately that will chew up a bit of time while I'm off <grumble>.
The railway decided late yesterday that they weren't going to come and switch around the cars like I had requested and didn't send the notification in the usual way so I didn't notice until I got up and saw an email from the night shift that there was no train switch.
I contacted one of our logistics partners and let the ones who would have had to wait for us to deal with rail know that they could start rolling their trucks through first thing this morning and the others who were coming in to pick up product we were bringing in to not bother. One of the drivers showed up for his appointment anyway but wasn't too dissapointed that he suddenly got a shorter day.
The one company was pretty happy - just saw them do their slosh test outside my window - they can probably load everything today and not have their drivers have to work on the weekend.
To satisfy anyone's curiosity, a "slosh test" is where right after being loaded, the driver zooms up to a barrier here and slams on their brakes. They then (are supposed to) get out and ensure that there were no leaks and that everything stayed where it is. If you see one of these big tankers on the road - please please please give them lots of room. There are no interior baffles so the product does indeed slosh around. We load roughly 30 metric tonnes of very hazardous material on these rigs and if they have to maneuver quickly, the whole thing can become quite unstable. I was talking to a driver yesterday who expressed surprised that there's not more accidents / fatalities then there are. It takes quite a bit of nerve and skill to drive one of these things at the best of times much less in heavy traffic.
Look as well for the placard on the side of the load. It will identify generally what is on the truck. Generally black is corrosives (what we deal with), red is flammable and yellow is oxidizers. As I told my kids, if you see a truck with both red and yellow placards, just consider driving the other way into another county .... There's also a 4 digit number on the placard called a UN number which you can actually look up that will tell you generally what chemistry is on board.
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We've been having some problems with the safety caps on some of our larger containers with the gaskets being eaten through because the supplier used the wrong material and I had a big stack of them come in yesterday. Foolishly I thought I'd inspect one of the caps myself and it turned out that the customer had left the valve partly cracked so I ended up with a minor spill of nitric acid - grumble. And since I wasn't wearing gloves the skin on part of my right hand is now yellow - which is nitrotyrosine - a bit itchy. Found one of the guys, we did the correct remediation of the spill - lesson learned. Check the valves first.
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Just wanted to ramble on here about another in a continuing series of very vivid dreams I regularly still seem to have. It starred my XW who was needing rescue from aliens / ravenous animals / whatever. In the process she kept trying to get in my good books by using all of the usual "buttons" that had always worked for me - it just annoyed me. Probably a good sign that my subconscious also feels that she has no power over me any more.
As an interesting to me aside, one thing she mentioned as one of her "reasons" was that she was afraid that one day I would "cut her out of my life" like I had done with my mother a few years previously. This was well after I knew about her affair and had heard reasons like "sometimes when you compliment me it doesn't sound sincere" so really felt that there was little about me that was the cause of her wanting to leave and that it was all on OM and her.
Now I was indeed estranged from my mother. She had been going through some difficulties which aren't worth going into here and stopped wanting to spend time with us and her grandkids. She had some other friends that she preferred to be with. I had been keeping the relationship going almost solo for a few years prior to that and after hearing one Mother's Day that she didn't want to spend it with us just decided to stop trying.
So - as I explained to my now XW - I hadn't cut my mother out of my life, she had left and I had let her go. She looked thoughtful about that. And then learned that I can indeed let people go when she herself finally got the courage to actually leave.
Ah well - need to get a bunch of things done here. Enough rambling and introspection for now.
Thank hid my ex doesn’t appear in my dreams anymore! I used to have, on rare occasions, dreams that he was cheating on me. Waking up with that awful pit in your stomach -yuk. Thankfully, I seldom remember dreams anyway and haven’t had one about him since a couple years after the divorce.
I do agree that your dream sounds like it was about no longer responding to your ex’s button pushing, and that’s a good thing. As for your wife’s affair excuses - “I had an affair because I was afraid that if I ever had an affair you’d cut me out if your life”???? Ridiculous.
I don’t remember you discussing the estrangement from your mom before. This might be where the seed if being attracted to controlling women comes from. Good topic to explore with a therapist.
Also - what fun do you have planned for your vacation?
I don’t remember you discussing the estrangement from your mom before. This might be where the seed if being attracted to controlling women comes from. Good topic to explore with a therapist.
My mom wasn't a strong person in the way that you might think of as "strong". As a poor farmer's wife she did have a lot of inner strength which was just necessary to get through the day with 4 kids, a husband who worked an awful lot both on the farm and off, 2 barns full of animals and various pets. Interestingly she absolutely hated cats.
She was the hub around which our family revolved. I miss her a lot. She died of colon cancer at 64. She was always very supportive and loving. As the designated "smart kid" she was very proud of me and was disappointed when I didn't get my degree. She had been looking forward to "having tea with the University president".
It's fairly useless I feel to go into too much depth on why we fell apart. She and my Dad had some issues in later years and I think part of it was that I didn't take sides and still helped him out with things - although no way to know. There's also been talk within the family that she really didn't like my wife and avoided her. Certainly she spent much more time with my other brother's wives.
I think that what it boiled down to was after losing her own mother at a very young age (breast cancer) and having to raise her younger brothers, then getting pregnant at 17 and raising another 5 kids, that she was just plain tired. She had a good number of good friends who were all very decent people and chose to spend time with them. We never had any "falling out" - she just went her own way and I didn't chase or pressure. Made me a bit sad that I didn't spend as much time with her as I would have liked, but she was happy.
Also - what fun do you have planned for your vacation?
Going to do a few day trips and some modest hiking. There's a local history book that I'm editing that has sadly been languishing for quite a long time. Some soaking in the tub and sadly some work on the house and garden getting things ready for winter.
Drat - edit button didn't like me.
To clarify - I have 3 brothers and 2 sisters but the youngest brother is 15 years younger than I am so there were 4 kids then some moved out and then one more popped out of her belly - rather a surprise to everyone.
This was well after I knew about her affair and had heard reasons like "sometimes when you compliment me it doesn't sound sincere" so really felt that there was little about me that was the cause of her wanting to leave and that it was all on OM and her.
hmmmm interesting...you might want to think a bit harder on that one....
Wow, thanks for the lesson on hazards. I had no idea they were that dangerous, although where I used to live there were lots of warnings on the highways, which I assumed were overkill. I will definitely be keeping lots more distance on the freeways.
I'm very glad to no longer have dreams about mine. I did at times about the cheating and lying and feelings of hurt and disappointment, and also ones about wanting to save him from some peril or another. Now, since I took steps way back to reduce my stress I am sleeping better, and no more dreams that I can even recall upon waking.
Vacation is proceeding. Overcast day today with the cat snoozing on the desk. I had originally intended to get up and get going to an auction sale a few blocks away to see if I could get some furniture but decided "meh" and chose extra sleep instead. I do love auction sales and grew up attending them. When we moved into this house, a lot of the furnishing and appliances were auction sale finds. I also bought a number of what I call "boxes-o-fun" which were the random boxes and buckets that accumulate in any reputable workshop full of spare parts and whosits and do dads. Lots of things around this old house were fixed or fabricated after a rummage through one of those to find what was needed. I undoubtedly have accreted quite a bit on my own.
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Had a very good day yesterday. Started with brunch with my son at a new to us cafe. In fact it was the same location as one of my sisters worked in back in the day that has changed owners and names numerous times over the years. He was pleased to find out that one of the servers was a friend of his. We originally were going to go to a place close to where he lives but he suggested this place. He mentioned that he "had an errand over this way" - which came out to be that he had to stop by his mother's place to let OM's dog out. No mention of his mother's dog who may or may not have crossed the rainbow bridge. He was getting on in years and was rather unhealthily overweight. Presumably XW and OM were off somewhere where they couldn't take the dog. I think I just saw her unique car drive past the house so they must be on their way home.
After brunch I went up to a local village to check out the art gallery (big artistic community around here) and the visitor's centre. I bumped into an old friend of my XW and we had a nice chat. She still has a lot of WTF about the fact that we split - hasn't heard from XW in years. There is a common narrative from all her old friends that she never had anything bad to say about me or our marriage so the fact that she ran off with OM is felt to be bizarre.
I had been intending to going out to pick up some apples from a local orchard but given the time went for a drive to some places on my list to visit this week. We are fortunate to have a designated UNESCO World Heritage Biosphere right in our back-yard and I went up and did a bit of hiking and wandering about. The village that was the apex of my trip was busy with tourists but none of the quaint shops I wanted to browse in were open. Probably they never opened at all this season. While I was hiking I did something I always enjoy doing which is helping people who are trying to take group photos by acting as photographer. It always brightens people up to be able to get a photo that includes everyone.
I'd not been up there in years and really enjoyed hiking around. The last time would have been when the kids were little I think. Some of the places I remembered from prior trips were not to be found. I was also hoping to find some rocks to make an inukshuk but didn't want to take them from the park and didn't find any suitable ones laying around. I'm going to do some wandering around closer to home to find some. I'm hoping to make one that is at least 2' high. Just something I've been wanting to do. Is it cultural appropriation? I'm not sure. It is a pretty common Canadian symbol.
One the way back I got a message from SIL2 who is in the process of demolishing the old farmhouse I grew up in - still surprised that the darned thing hasn't fallen down on it's own. There were a couple of boxes they found in an attic that had my old school things in from 40 years ago including my report cards going all the way back to Kindergarten. Most of it I've tossed but will keep a few things and scan in some as well.
Being also related to my dad, my youngest brother is doing the best he can to reclaim the lumber, and salvageable metal etc from the house. As he demolishes, a lot of history is revealed. The house burned a number of times, sometimes caused by us kids setting small fires to keep warm. Surprising that we survived
It was weird being in there with the walls all gone - the house is tiny. Probably about the size of my kitchen/dining room - maybe 800 square feet on both floors. The ceiling in the upstairs (raised after the top of the house burned when I was a baby) is only a bit over 6' high. 4 kids, assorted kid friends, dog all inside that place. And here I am rattling around in this old place.
It was nice to see her, my youngest brother and nephew. Hugs were given although my nephew didn't want a hug. They're anti-vax blah blah blah but I figured since I am double vaccinated that it was an acceptable risk.
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Going to do my best to have a quiet week. The apple place and a lovely cafe up that way that I had hoped to have on yesterday's adventure will happen later in the week now. Lots of cleaning to do, some windows need re-caulking and painted. There a book on local history that I've been editing but have let languish that I want to get done.
I have a pot of chili that includes fresh cherry tomatoes from my garden on for dinner that will probably feed me for a few days. I have some baguettes that will make nice garlic toast.
I've been keeping an eye on things at the plant. The daily production reporting doesn't seem to have been picked up so I've recorded it. Hope that my boss isn't thinking that I'm actually working though.
It sounds like you rescue damsels in distress. My last XGF was a Harvard professor and international athlete. My XGF before that was tight with the mayor and city council of a big city. At first glance, our partners are very different, except unbeknownst to the public high-performers often need significant support. Ultimately, maybe we both put ourselves on the backburner?
Wanted to touch on this that CWarrior posted on his thread. Yep - definitely true. It's something that I struggle with in multiple ways. I am in many many ways a very fortunate man. I have a lot that the universe has chosen to send my way both materially and otherwise. I'm by no means rich but certainly comfortably middle-class. Undoubtedly it was in part how I was raised, but I feel an obligation to help others. I donate to numerous charities and when I used to have the time was also an active volunteer and sat on a couple of boards of volunteer / charity groups. Halloween is my favourite holiday and not just because I have an acceptable excuse to dress up as a pirate and drink rum. I look at it as a way for me to give back to the community that has been so very good to me, even if it is in small bags of candy and the joy that kids seem to have coming to "the pirate house". I do have to figure out what to do when I get rid of the sloop still.
Annnyyyhooo - one of the things I need to work on is my own perception that I have a lot to offer, emotionally and practically. That has, as CWarrior points out, led to me minimizing my own needs. This was not only the case in the two relationships I had post-divorce, but also during my marriage.
Yes, I do indeed have a lot to offer, but in this market I need to be a buyer and not a seller. It is what I am used to though and how I am wired. The sculpture of The Knight of the Rueful Countenance is staring at me over the screen and reminding me that service is it's own reward which are the values ingrained into me. Being single, I can be more "selfish" because there is a lack of someone immediately around to serve and I can do more or less whatever the heck I want.
Well - enough philosophy for now. The teapot is empty. Time to give the pot of chili a stir and root out my copy of that book and get a bit of the editing done. I'd also like to get my dusting and vacuuming done today too. I've reached out to an old friend to see if he's up for lunch sometime this week.
Well that was surprising. C was in the village and invited me out for a beverage. Overall she seems to be doing well but is still waiting for her divorce to work through the courts. Divorcing a lawyer is undoubtedly difficult.
It was nice to see her. She did ask about how and why things ended with S and seemed satisfied albeit slightly disturbed by the answer which was "I thought I could get along with anyone and was wrong"
Certainly there was no pressure felt on my side and no pursuit vibe like the last time around. Given that she seems to have some sort of fiduciary interest in the brewery, we'll undoubtedly see each other again. It was nice to spend time with someone I respect and consider a friend.
They're anti-vax blah blah blah but I figured since I am double vaccinated that it was an acceptable risk.
Please be careful. We have seen several breakthrough cases in our vaccinated patients, and although you’re unlikely to end up hospitalized, it still can be quite unpleasant and the jury is out on Long Covid after breakthrough infections.
They're anti-vax blah blah blah but I figured since I am double vaccinated that it was an acceptable risk.
Please be careful. We have seen several breakthrough cases in our vaccinated patients, and although you’re unlikely to end up hospitalized, it still can be quite unpleasant and the jury is out on Long Covid after breakthrough infections.
The two hospitals I work for are now seeing a high rate of fully vaccinated folk getting infected. And hospitalized to boot
They're anti-vax blah blah blah but I figured since I am double vaccinated that it was an acceptable risk.
Please be careful. We have seen several breakthrough cases in our vaccinated patients, and although you’re unlikely to end up hospitalized, it still can be quite unpleasant and the jury is out on Long Covid after breakthrough infections.
The two hospitals I work for are now seeing a high rate of fully vaccinated folk getting infected. And hospitalized to boot
Ouch! That whack hit where it hurts ....
The blah blah blah was more in reference to the various conspiracy theories that seem to have stuck with them. Socially they occupy an echo chamber that reinforces such messages. They do respect my decision to be vaccinated and to not spend time with them until I got both doses. On my side, I just don't have any interest in arguing with people about it. On most things I'm non confrontational and I know that there's really nothing I can say that will change their minds.
There is a lot of pandemic fatigue going on around here and probably everywhere else. I'm the only one who wears a mask at the plant regularly even though the masking guidelines are still in place. The election is amplifying the messages too along with the resistance to any sort of vaccine passport.
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Another "productive" day here. I drove to the city an hour away to get a new pair of safety shoes. My old ones have worn out in the inside. I ended up having to go up to a size 13EE to get something that fit the wide canoes at the end of my legs.
One the way back I stopped off at a local shop that I normally can't stop at and picked up some goat and sheep cheese. Should be nice to try. I also stopped at a landscaping supply place and they were nice enough to let me pick through their pile of stones (still had to pay) and I now have the inukshuk I wanted.
Going through the emails of the day - boy oh boy am I glad I'm off. The railway didn't show up again last night, the company we partner with for trucking is unhappy about the number of loads going through and so it's all a big mess that I don't have to do anything about. Everyone is short drivers right now and it's probably not going to get better any time soon.
Hopefully things will all be sorted out before I go back - but I'm sure that things are pretty tense.
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I've been thinking a bit more about my brief visit with C. I think I can pretty much say with certainty that she's still interested. I think I can certainly "see" her a lot more clearly than previously. Still someone I like and admire. Capable, smart, pretty. She was a bit startled but laughed when I explained "I used to think I could get along with pretty much everyone - I was wrong". She asked if the multitude of shoes she has counts as hoarding.
I got the feeling that she wanted to reach out and touch me as we were talking but didn't. She did seem a bit awkward when I hugged her hello and goodbye - but I'm a big huggy kind of guy and didn't force it on her but just opened my arms. She was certainly willing for a friendly hug.
Certainly someone I enjoyed spending time with and am looking forward to doing that again. I feel no real urge to "chase" and am not worried about whether anything will go anywhere or not. I'm not having the urge to actively chase / date anyone right now.
Ah well - time to wrap this up. Just got the notice on the radio that we're under a tornado watch. I'm probably safe here in the valley but will start watching the weather radar and perhaps batten down the cat
perhaps batten down the cat
LOLOL!
Not a lot to report. My vacation is just flying by. I did get some of the things on my "list" taken care of. Picked up new safety shoes and make an inukshuk to watch over the end of my driveway yesterday and managed to get the lawn mowed before yet another wave of rain came through.
The storm was pretty severe with some reports of tornados. Down here in the valley it wasn't too bad but the entire region lost power for several hours. Some areas are still not up and running in the more remote locations. I did pull out the old camp stove to make dinner on but shut off the gas to it when the ancient grease inside it caught fire. It resolved itself but could have been much worse. The stove is now thoroughly cleaned and ready in case it's needed again.
The cat was fine although I did have to watch his tail as it would sometimes flick around the candle I was using for light.
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Not looking forward to going back to work in a few day. The extra sleeping in has been glorious along with the lack of stress.
One of the things I got taken care of was scanning in all the old report cards that Mother had kept. It was interesting to me on really how little I've fundamentally changed over the years. Hard working but with a tendency to make mistakes when rushed was a consistent theme. I was surprised that my - I think - grade 1 report card referenced my excellent singing voice. I don't know how good I actually am - but as long as I stay in my range I think I can carry a tune - old Bing Crosby songs are just about the right range for my baritone.
It was a bit odd too to see the report cards made out variously to Andy and Andrew. Growing up, most people called me Andy but for some reason now it just grates. My immediate family still calls me that and when I was visiting with C she did too - which just made me cringe. She knows me through family though which perhaps explains that usage. I sort of put it down that some people have through blood or history earned the right to call me whatever name they want. There are bigger things in this world to deal with than that sort of trivia.
My XW also had a "longer" name that she went by and never shortened it. She would get quite - ahem - particular - with people as well when they shortened mine.
Some good friends (double vaccinated) stopped by today and we went out to a local pub for wings. It was nice to catch up. They have by necessity become very active grandparents because their daughter and son-in-law keep leaving the kids with them. They do work a lot of hours and my friends have been retired for some time. It was in some ways interesting to talk to them - I asked after both their kids and they only talked about their daughter. Their son has had a very troubled life with anger and substance abuse issues and numerous difficulties with the law. They are a "normal" middle-class couple that has had as far as I know - and these have been friends for over 20 years - a good solid marriage and been loving and involved parents. They did get a mental health diagnosis on their son eventually but not until he was a long way down the path to difficult times.
Trying to decide when or if I'll reach out to C to see about getting together again. She's still pretty wrapped up in a difficult divorce. She says that her STBX is being obstructionist she believes mostly to avoid child support. Despite having a solid and prosperous career, he's pleading poverty and making claims that are easily proven to be false. A story that we've seen played out here multiple times and one that I certainly find believable. I may contact her mid-next week to see if she's up here on the weekend of available on Friday after work.
Ah well - enough for now. Trying to decide on what to do for dinner. I may go for a wander around the village and enjoy the momentary sunshine while I decide. I still have well over 50 pages of that history book to edit so may work on that tonight.
Grrrr - figured out why my kitchen smoke detector didn't fire the other day when my camp stove malfunctioned. The dratted thing is gone. No clue when or why it was removed. Consistent with S and her taking whatever she felt like when she exited though. I'm a bit disappointed in myself that it's taken nearly a year for me to notice.
I picked up a new one yesterday with a 10 year battery in it which was what the old one was.
Fairly busy weekend ahead. I have some work to do to get ready for Monday and tidy things up that got missed while I was off. I was pleased yesterday afternoon to get a courier package from my tailor. They have my measurements on file and did up another batch of shirts for me so now I have to go through and starch and iron them all to get them ready. I have an odd shape with an over-sized neck so custom is the only thing that really works well for me. And the fit is so much better than off the rack while the price is actually quite comparable. I look at clothes as an investment. Buy good stuff, take care of it and it lasts. My last batch of shirts were probably at least 6-7 years old. Pants and jackets I can at least buy off the rack and bow ties too although I have to make sure they are long enough first. I'm fortunate that I'm on the upper side of "normal" so don't have to go custom for everything like many bigger people do. I would like to lose those 40lbs that have rediscovered me after the divorce diet - but am too lazy to put in the real effort in diet change and exercise that would be necessary. And even if I did I still have too large of a neck for off-the-rack shirts and the ones that come close look like circus tents on me.
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In other news, 20S stopped by and picked up another box of her stuff that she's planning on sneaking into the house while her boyfriend is away (sigh). His divorce is supposedly going to be final in a few weeks and she's expecting an engagement ring. She went on quite the rant about my son not taking her calls any more - hasn't for quite a long time. I assured her that he doesn't really take anyone's calls and reminded her how much it upsets his mother. She gave me an odd look then but I expect that's because she's always been in contact with my XW although I have vague memories about her getting "unfriended" and hearing a rant about that.
I expect that quite a few people are still in contact one way or another with my XW and I. One of those Facebook memories popped up the other day that she had commented on - clicking the link - I'm still blocked through there. I do honestly have no need or real interest to know what's going on with her day-to-day and it's undoubtedly for the best that I'm blinded to it. My kids pass on zero information in this direction even though it's well proven that my son passes info the other way.
...
20S is an overall good kid - just pretty messed up especially about relationships and rather a taker than a giver. In hind-sight she and S have a lot of similarities. Jumping in with both feet into a relationship and steam-rolling over any objections.
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I did get my groceries and much of the usual Saturday errands out of the way yesterday. Sat outside with a nice fire to relax after a dinner of BBQ steak with baked potato and gravy. Annoying to be single with that sort of cooking - I was dodging back and forth between the kitchen and outside making sure that the gravy was cooking properly and the BBQ was behaving. A spare pair of hands could have handled one side or the other of that.
I did a "wellness check" on an old friend who has been going through some rough times and she's doing more or less ok. She has a number of health issues and hasn't worked in over a year - not because of her health - she basically was left unemployed when Covid shut down her employer and then given her age (a few years older than me) and health issues would only look for work from home jobs. She was extra chatty via text so I didn't get as much of a relax as I had hoped for - but it was good to know that my friend was ok and "heard". I don't think she has much of a social circle.
Still conflicted about my approach with "C". Keeping her somewhat at arms length is undoubtedly the "right" decision, but I'm not well known for doing the right thing
. She's certainly in a better place I think than she was when we dated 3 years ago (?). Her kids are getting pretty close to launch with her oldest 20 and youngest I think 15 or 16. She's a very smart and practical person and I can almost hear the wheels turning when she was talking about the fact that when her divorce settlement is finally figured out that she'll have to sell the house. There certainly (and yes I know I've been wrong about this with others) no chance of a reconciliation. Her STBX has been very nasty, has a girlfriend and a new life even if for some bizarre reason it's "secret". A story we've seen here many many many times.
What do I want though? I still don't really know what I want that I don't already have. Companionship would be nice. Some friendly booty from time to time perhaps. I know that I'm again deep if not deeper into a rut than I was before.
Ah well - teapot's empty. I have one load of laundry out on the line and the next is about ready I think. It's a breezy, sunny day here so I'm giving my quilt and blankets a nice wash and airing along with the usual. Soon going to be time to put the storm windows up but I need a perfectly calm day for that.
I have some reports and calculations to do for work. There's a couple of loads coming through that I need to juggle to be able to make the best use of the available tanks. Update my books, send the XW her monthly payment etc etc etc.
Salute
She's a very smart and practical person and I can almost hear the wheels turning when she was talking about the fact that when her divorce settlement is finally figured out that she'll have to sell the house.
Please tell me you don’t think she was thinking she could rope you in and move in with you???
No rescuing! If she sells her house, she moves into whatever condo or apartment she can afford.
And don’t blow past her comment about the shoes. I’m trying to picture what that might mean? I mean, women do need more kinds of shoes than men. Even after purging my closet, I think I have: 2 pair shoes for work, 2 pairs running shoes (one current, one old pair for yard work). 2 pairs casual summer sandals , one pair heavy duty hiking boots, 3 pairs of pretty boots and maybe 3 pairs of dress up heels. Neither a minimalist nor a shoe hoarder. I’d imagine most women have a similar collection up to 2-3 times as many? I wouldn’t worry about that. But if she’s talking Imelda Marcos a whole room is devoted to shoes, or she has a collection of $800 Laboutin heels, or she has 300 pairs of shoes shoved into a closet - she might not be a match. The fact that her response to S’s hoarding is to bring up her own possible hoarding tendency ……. Just keep an eye on that.
I cannot believe that S took the smoke detector! You might want to check around your home as we suggested back when she left...you just may have more things missing than you think. A smoke detector isn't that expensive and she would still need the part that you screw into the wall/ceiling. Gosh, that woman was a piece of work!
You have had a busy week and I'm sure Monty has enjoyed having you around. Enjoy last two days home.
I’m as lost as I am when reading CW’s thread anymore. Andrew, I hate to keep bringing this up, particularly since you are involved and I don’t even really know you or C, but your memory/recollection of your time together before and what I recall from your posts is 2 vastly different stories. What I recall was a woman embroiled in a sticky situation who you knew because there was some familial connection and you spent some time together and you seemed romantically interested but she seemed to be friend zoning you hard.
And I obviously missed a post somewhere because I didn’t see anything about shoes that kml mentioned above. But then again, I do occasionally miss posts without realizing it.
My only real advice: STOP CHASING/DATING SEPARATED WOMEN!
Please tell me you don’t think she was thinking she could rope you in and move in with you???
No rescuing! If she sells her house, she moves into whatever condo or apartment she can afford.
Complete speculation on my part - but I'm learning to be cynical and look for ulterior motives where there may or may not be any. She's reasonably well off and works as an executive in an engineering company so I doubt she needs any sort of rescue from a practical point of view.
But if she’s talking Imelda Marcos a whole room is devoted to shoes, or she has a collection of $800 Laboutin heels, or she has 300 pairs of shoes shoved into a closet - she might not be a match. The fact that her response to S’s hoarding is to bring up her own possible hoarding tendency ……. Just keep an eye on that.
I think she's in the "more shoes than could make sense" category. My XW had a thing for purses and we had one closet that was pretty much filled with them. I expect that this is in at least that category.
For me - I have some pride that I have very few things that aren't used regularly. Let's see, for shoes I have 3 pairs of dress shoes (2 steel toe - one of them a "backup pair"), one pair of walking shoes, 2 pairs of old gardening shoes (waiting for the first pair to die to put the second into rotation), 2 pairs of sandals. 3 pairs of boots (rubber, winter, dress). I also recognize that I'm a minimalist and not a lot of people are. It's undoubtedly more rare in middle-age when you live in the same place for a while and the flotsam and jetsam of life acretes.
I think the real indicator is if the things that someone has are cared for. Boxes shoved into a closet are far different from things regularly used. I could get by with a single bow tie but have at least 20 but wear them all regularly.
I cannot believe that S took the smoke detector! You might want to check around your home as we suggested back when she left...you just may have more things missing than you think. A smoke detector isn't that expensive and she would still need the part that you screw into the wall/ceiling. Gosh, that woman was a piece of work!
You have had a busy week and I'm sure Monty has enjoyed having you around. Enjoy last two days home.
Thanks. The back plate was gone as well - so it wasn't just a temporary removal. I'm assuming it was her but have no proof - and it doesn't really matter. I do know that she really had a broad reach when it came to taking stuff. I recall seeing some papers of her XH in one of the boxes of stuff she pulled out of his house after she moved in here. She had no interest in sending them back and didn't seem to care that she had them. I think I'm close to the end of being surprised by things missing. The prior one to this was the nail brush from the upstairs bath - things I don't use much. This one bothered me a bit because a smoke detector is a vital piece of safety equipment. Any kitchen fire - which could happen at almost any time - would be well out of hand before the other two smoke detectors in the house would go off.
I’m as lost as I am when reading CW’s thread anymore. Andrew, I hate to keep bringing this up, particularly since you are involved and I don’t even really know you or C, but your memory/recollection of your time together before and what I recall from your posts is 2 vastly different stories. What I recall was a woman embroiled in a sticky situation who you knew because there was some familial connection and you spent some time together and you seemed romantically interested but she seemed to be friend zoning you hard.
And I obviously missed a post somewhere because I didn’t see anything about shoes that kml mentioned above. But then again, I do occasionally miss posts without realizing it.
My only real advice: STOP CHASING/DATING SEPARATED WOMEN!
In my defense - as poor as it may seem - they seem to chase
me and then I allow myself to get swept up in it. I recall one story where a woman insisted on seeing a copy of the divorce certificate of anyone she would consider dating ...
Your memory is good though Dawn - same woman. Now as anyone here will agree, I don't really understand women. But certainly with S and it could be with C, they recognize that if they don't step up that their chances may pass them by. Certainly I expect that's why S swooped in shortly after she found out that B had dumped me. I know that in the early days that was one of my worries when I would meet someone who seemed compatible they they would be quickly "off the market" as it were.
When we first dated and there were many who didn't even think that what we were doing counted as dating, when I showed sustained interest, she backed off - she had a lot going on and - we can speculate - had me as a known quantity while she dealt with other XXX in her life. I know she was very shocked when I mentioned to her a couple of years later about going up to see my girlfriend's grandkids, but positive and congratulatory. She reached out a decent amount of time after she found out that S and I had split - in this past spring, but then many lockdowns went in and I was pretty obviously staying single so no rush.
I honestly don't know though - is she just a friend being friendly? Is she interested in something more? I'm trying to be open minded but careful.
One thing I am certainly better informed on these days is that I am perfectly fine on my own, that it takes a particular type of compatible person for me to be compatible with, and that if I do choose to go out and date that there are lots of people out there that I could date. I do hop on to the on-line dating thing from time to time - my profile isn't active - and see the same faces swinging around. Recently I saw the one I had been "quite" interested in show up again with the usual "why is this so hard" comment on her profile.
On the other hand, for anyone who has been spending any time at it, it's pretty obvious that there is a shortage of the "stable and non-crazy" types out there. I perhaps look like that. Heck, kml had been wanting to set me up with her sister at one point
I’m as lost as I am when reading CW’s thread anymore. Andrew,
Tread lightly, Andrew, your exploits are being compared to mine.
Complete speculation on my part - but I'm learning to be cynical and look for ulterior motives where there may or may not be any. She's reasonably well off and works as an executive in an engineering company so I doubt she needs any sort of rescue from a practical point of view.
I hear you that she doesn't need to latch onto someone to put a roof over her head financially. One of my XW's motives for being interested in me--ironic given all the issues with my place--is my place "feels" like a home to my kids and looks like a home to my XW. And your home sounds more homey than mine, although I suspect we'd both be jealous of butterfly's garden.
On the other hand, for anyone who has been spending any time at it, it's pretty obvious that there is a shortage of the "stable and non-crazy" types out there.
Yes, I hope to add to this demographic at some point!
Andrew, why? a female talks to you and suddenly she's interested and wheels are turning that she can move into your home? Please. Do not let prior experience color present conditions.
Point #2: She's a married woman, period, until that divorce is final. She will need time post D decree to process the finalization of that marriage. We've seen it countless times. It's something we've all faced. If she *is* interested, why are *you* interested in being the rebound guy? Make no mistake, regardless of how much time she's been separated from her stbxh, the first person she is involved with post D finalization *will* be the rebound guy.
I want more for you than that, my friend.
Look elsewhere, please.
What do they say the definition of insanity is???
It is amazing to me that someone who is a LBS themselves and who has read countless stories here about an ex leaving and trashing the LBS but still believes everything they say hook line and sinker. C, B and S must be the unluckiest women on the planet as they all have been involved with the worst possible men. I do not understand why you believe this word for word every… single…time. I am sure my ex describes me as the worst man in the world and I am sure that’s the way your ex describes you too because that’s what 99% of them do when they leave. Do not believe the stories about their ex’s for once.
Are there no non-married women in Canada? Stop dating and being interested in women who are FREAKING MARRIED/”SEPEREATED”!
What do they say the definition of insanity is???
Funny, I sent off texts to a few of the participants here wondering/suggesting we change the name of the forums from divorce busting to Groundhog Day.
Are there no non-married women in Canada? Stop dating and being interested in women who are FREAKING MARRIED/”SEPEREATED”!
Dawn already beat you to this but I could not agree more with both of you. In fact, by my count, Andrew has ONLY dated married women - for certain only moved married women in with him. Groundhog Day.
My only real advice: STOP CHASING/DATING SEPARATED WOMEN!
I want more for you than that, my friend.
Look elsewhere, please.
I'm not dating or chasing anyone at present and don't know when, if, or how that would change. It is nice to spend time with friends of both genders and also important for me to be aware that I don't get dragged into anything that is not healthy for me again. It's unfortunate that I feel that I am in a position where I need to question the motives of others. And to be frank, myself.
I know you take everything I saw with a grain of salt. But the last 2 women you dated and moved into your home we’re still married. And one actually went back to her husband .
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having female friends. But you keep speaking of C as a romantic thing, not a friend thing. And guess what she is STILL MARRIED. And what an insanely long divorce abs has going on here. Huge red flags. And again, you know only one side to story.
I think everyone is trying to tell you not to date married women anymore. I mean, of course you can if you want, but it is literally the definition of insanity if you do.
Andrew, my final post on this subject and maybe the board itself:
How long were you separated before your divorce was final?
How long did you wait before dating? (I seem to recall you saying you wanted to wait several months or even a year before starting something new)
Why do you forget that other people may need the same distance from their divorce being finalized before getting involved with them? I've never had the impression that you've thought of C as a mere friend. Always a romantic potential.
it hit me as i was doing errands. Andrew and CW are both left brain dominant people. love is not a left brain emotion.
This is an interesting starting point here.
Some people have claimed that I have some form of Asperger's as well. Left brained people - at least in my own opinion / experience - tend to like structures and systems and for the world to make sense. It shapes the way we deal with the world. We tend to believe what we can see and feel and what we're told.
I like to think that I can feel love but it's like experiencing the colour Yellow. Does everyone experience those inputs in the same way? Doesn't make it more real or less real - certainly different. Looking back on my marriage, I absolutely loved my wife and she knew it. We were "that cute couple" even just before the end. Wrapped up in that were concepts of Duty that anyone who has played the home game knows is one of the cornerstones about how I view the world.
Like I do sometimes and prompted by the current conversations here, I read back on my thread starting at exactly a year ago and skimming forward. My heavens. What a cluster fxxx I was going through. It actually triggered some stress / nearly PTSD reaction in me. So very much that was going on that was both said and a lot more that was unsaid. I went from proclaiming that I was so very happy to trying to escape in about a month. To paraphrase Shakespeare "The lady protests too much, methinks" - which if you read the play has a number of meanings. Act 3 Scene 2 if you are wanting to skip ahead. Mind you, Hamlet was a pretty messed up character too what with the thing with his sister and such.
Anyhoodles - The re-reading certainly reinforced that dating crazy and especially manipulative people is a truly bad idea. It also reinforces the need to believe and trust less until people prove themselves to me - in all areas of my life. I'm still at a loss to know how to tell - actions and words need to be in sync I know is a big part of that.
A lot of people have gotten wrapped up in the fact that the two women I dated were just separated and not fully divorced. I think regardless of marital status, crazy and manipulative people are to be found.
Going to do some self-care and soak in the tub with a good book for as long as I feel the need. Sunday Supper is in the crock-pot and will be ready whenever I am. Shame I don't have the ingredients for "Jynnan tonnyx" (waves to the small number of Hitchhiker's fans here).
A lot of people have gotten wrapped up in the fact that the two women I dated were just separated and not fully divorced. I think regardless of marital status, crazy and manipulative people are to be found.
True enough, but you've entirely missed my point: why are YOU open to dating separated people, given that you've been separated for a length of time, and know what that feels like. You've also been divorced and know that often the finalization brings up even more trauma post D, and that time alone is often ... Why would you be willing to partner with someone who has their own issues to work through? It seems a recipe for disaster.
^^^ often the only thing that heals the post D reeling.
I was naive in many ways when I got married the first time at 35. I had certainly dated and had relationships prior to meeting my XH (who was fully divorced for several years before we even met, so separation issues weren't a problem for us). I had a very strict view on relationships and divorce and all sorts of other things, but having been single through my 20s and into my 30s one "attitude" (for lack of a better word) that I had developed was that I just didn't date separated guys. I hadn't really thought about it until I really started actively dating in my late 20s when it was possible to find more divorced guys, but in general the ones that were separated, a lot of times, were not really looking to get serious. I did ultimately have a serious relationship with a guy who was separated and it ended eventually because he didn't want to be "tied down". Later, after we were apart for awhile, I learned he'd gone back to his X. Several years later he reached out to me to try again. No thanks...hard pass. That whole thing kind of shaped for me that, moving forward, I was going to pass on separated folks and strictly stay with completely divorced or never married guys (who have their own set of "challenges" when they are in their 30s, 40s, 50s). When my XH and I got married, he was the same way because he'd seen his own first XW date a bunch of dudes before their divorce was final and he was upset, not because he wanted her back, but because he thought it was confusing for their girls. I get it. He was staunchly opposed to separated people dating. Flash forward to our own divorce and lo and behold, he was dating his now wife long before the ink was dry on our divorce papers. Oh how we change the direction of our boat rowing when it suits our purpose. Of course, he was trying to save face and when I called him on it, he said it was fine for HIM to date when he was just separated because he knew there wouldn't be any reconciliation. He was right about that....that was yet another HARD pass for me. I wouldn't have taken him back then (or now) if he had crawled back on his hands and knees with millions of dollars strapped to his body and offered me a private island oasis to live out our days in peaceful, beachy solitude. But anyway, I say all that to say that I agree with bttrfly, as usual. There is just SO much surrounding separation and divorce and it takes awhile to clear all those cobwebs, so dating in the midst of that just doesn't make a lot of sense.
I know everyone is different and has different needs, wants, desires, but for me, after my XH left (Sept. 29 was BD and our D was final Dec. 17), that whole part of me that craved romantic attention in any form or fashion just shut down. It took a little over a year for me to even want to think about any man in a romantic light and then it was like flipping a switch and all of a sudden, I was like, hmmm...a date would be nice. And, that is when I knew I was "over it" and ready to move forward. For me, I know my situation is different from a lot because I wasn't with my XH when I was young. We got married when I was 35. We didn't have children together, though I think of his daughters from his first marriage as my own and have a very tight bond with all of them to this day. It was, perhaps, easier for me to put that past behind me and maintain a relationship with the girls, who were all adults when we divorced than for someone who has been with someone since they were young and produced children together.
People are different, but I think bttrfly makes a good point that women who are separated still have some stuff to work through and likely need the space to do that instead of rushing into another relationship.
People are different, but I think bttrfly makes a good point that women who are separated still have some stuff to work through and likely need the space to do that instead of rushing into another relationship.
I think men have that same need. the finality of divorce just ... can knock someone sideways for a minute or three. better they do that without a rebound partner who risks getting hurt.
Yes, agree that men need it too. Divorce affects everyone differently but it is certainly a tough thing and getting over it is probably best when not already tied into a new partner.
Curious about people's thoughts on this...
Does the WAS needs as much time post-separation / post-divorce as the LBS, or does the likelihood the WAS was processing what was to come well before the LBS mean they can be healthier and date / marry successfully sooner than the LBS?
Hello BL
WAS, walk away spouse. They walked away from their marriage, their families, their responsibilities, their vows. WAS are not emotionally healthy people. These are not folks from an amicably agreed separation/divorce. These are self focused, this is my time, I don’t care who gets hurts, people trying to escape an often irrational and emotional prison of self.
Can they be healthier and date / marry successfully sooner than the LBS? No way. A true WAS will have issues, problems, drives that they need to work through, and then resolve all the damages they caused, and then reconcile where their new life is at, and so on.
That being said, some LBS do get mired on their path and get stuck. Some for a very long time. So yes, it is possible a few WAS find healthy and wholeness before their left behind spouse. Still, generally speaking the WAS has a head start, yet they got a whole lot more ground to cover.
D
DnJ,
Wow. Excellent response. I hadn't considered that angle, but what you wrote makes a lot of sense. Thanks for that.
Hello Andrew
I haven’t popped in on this side of the board for a while. Been busy with work and kids visiting and whatnot. Thought I drop in and see what you’ve been up to.
Certainly plenty of commotion over here.
Dunning-Kruger effect. Really Andrew?
I've occasionally referred to this place as a "diary with hecklers".
Heckling? Purposeful aggressive comment designed to interrupt and jeer? You and I have very different views it would seem.
I often wonder if some of these people behave like they do here in real life…
The same beliefs guide me here and in real life. Compassion and forgiveness are more than words on this screen. So, yes. I’m me.
Are you you?
Better online? Worse online? Or same online?
A lot of people have gotten wrapped up in the fact that the two women I dated were just separated and not fully divorced.
Your girlfriend and fiancé were both grown women and made their own choices. You also made your choices.
I know you’ll recall my illustrating how you filled in the role of OM from the other side’s point of view. A still married women dating another man.
What do I want though? I still don't really know what I want that I don't already have. Companionship would be nice. Some friendly booty from time to time perhaps. I know that I'm again deep if not deeper into a rut than I was before.
I believe in you Andrew. I seriously do.
I also believe you do not want a relationship that follows those two examples. You do not want to hurt anybody. You are an honourable man.
I am sorry you see yourself in a deeper rut than before. Perhaps, if you don’t want anything that you don’t already have, don’t look for it. Be single. Embrace it. Find your way out of your rut and back to solid level ground with clear horizons and headings.
When you can see to the horizon in all directions you’ll have a much better view of all that is possible. I’m pretty confident you’d find your answers rather easily then.
Just some nonprofessional care from a friend.
D
Hello BL
WAS, walk away spouse. They walked away from their marriage, their families, their responsibilities, their vows. WAS are not emotionally healthy people. These are not folks from an amicably agreed separation/divorce. These are self focused, this is my time, I don’t care who gets hurts, people trying to escape an often irrational and emotional prison of self.
Can they be healthier and date / marry successfully sooner than the LBS? No way. A true WAS will have issues, problems, drives that they need to work through, and then resolve all the damages they caused, and then reconcile where their new life is at, and so on.
That being said, some LBS do get mired on their path and get stuck. Some for a very long time. So yes, it is possible a few WAS find healthy and wholeness before their left behind spouse. Still, generally speaking the WAS has a head start, yet they got a whole lot more ground to cover.
D
I disagree slightly DnJ... sounds like you are describing a wayward spouse. In which case I agree completely with the above. They are damaged and in a lot of cases need more time than the LBS to recover and form healthy relationships (if they ever do)
A WAS is a bit different. A WAS tries for a period of time to get through to their partner that their needs are not being met. I think they actually might have a great deal of self awareness and might even want the marriage to work but their partner is simply not up to the task. Here is what MWD describes as a WAS in an article I found:
MWD "uses the phrase (WAW) to describe women who give up on unsatisfying marriages to emotionally inept and hard-to-reach husbands."
I think, based on the quote above, we have more examples of WAS on these boards than we initially think. Not saying they are majority, but based on stories I read here, I think this scenario is not uncommon. I can think of a few cases were I am almost positive the above is the case rather than a spouse going a-wall.
I think an actual WAS might have the head start and not as much ground to cover compared to a LBS. But agree, a WW/WH has a whole lot of ground to cover.
I think it is an important distinction even if most think it is semantics.
I disagree slightly DnJ... sounds like you are describing a wayward spouse. In which case I agree completely with the above. They are damaged and in a lot of cases need more time than the LBS to recover and form healthy relationships (if they ever do)
A WAS is a bit different. A WAS tries for a period of time to get through to their partner that their needs are not being met. I think they actually might have a great deal of self awareness and might even want the marriage to work but their partner is simply not up to the task. Here is what MWD describes as a WAS in an article I found:
MWD "uses the phrase (WAW) to describe women who give up on unsatisfying marriages to emotionally inept and hard-to-reach husbands."
I think, based on the quote above, we have more examples of WAS on these boards than we initially think. Not saying they are majority, but based on stories I read here, I think this scenario is not uncommon. I can think of a few cases were I am almost positive the above is the case rather than a spouse going a-wall.
I think an actual WAS might have the head start and not as much ground to cover compared to a LBS. But agree, a WW/WH has a whole lot of ground to cover.
I think it is an important distinction even if most think it is semantics.
Interesting responses from you both Pinn and DnJ. BAsed on my experience and others who seemed to have experienced the same thing. I know, in my case at least, my STBXW probably falls in the middle. She had certainly been through the WAS stage as you quoted from MWD, but then she progressed to a Wayward like person. Lying, cheating, etc.
Perhaps it depends on the quality of the person's baseline character as to whether they progress from a WAS to a WW/WH. I know from my mum's experience, she had the characteristics of a WAW but never showed any of the behaviours of a WW, she waited 15 years before starting a new R (that I knew of anyway).
You are right pinn, I was thinking wayward even though I typed walk away. Thank you for correcting and clarifying. WAS vs WW/WH is an important distinction.
Apologies for any confusion.
Quite a bit of philosophy generated recently on here and on CW's thread. Interesting reading. Can't say as I agree with everything but that's no surprise to anyone.
Part of my disagreement is that the pool of people in the discussion has a built-in bias because the greater majority are LBS like myself.
Certainly I will agree that when my divorce agreement was finalized that it was certainly a kick in the feels that took me some time to recover from even though I knew it was coming. It was the culmination of a journey where I felt that I had failed. On the other hand, getting the actual piece of paper was a relief and a feeling of freedom.
But that was my lived experience and not that of others. Like many here, I strove beyond the bounds of what many around me felt was rational to hang on to a marriage that was over long before I admitted to that fact.
Does that mean that I was in a position to form a healthy relationship with someone else prior to that demarcation point of having the agreement in hand? For me, probably not. But that is my own opinion about me. I cannot speak for others including my XW who had an actual negative gap / overlap in her relationships. Is her relationship with OM healthy? No clue. I do know of couples who did start relationships that way who are going strong years later - not that that I'm an advocate of that. Given that I have a certain soft and squishy-ness to me, I do hope that my XW is doing well in her chosen life despite my occasional darker wishes for karma to pay her a visit. I have no knowledge of her situation but the fact that she and OM have bought a house together and are still going nearly 6 years later does say something.
I think that for any person who is arriving on the doorstep of a new life with a new partner, that the baggage that accompanies them has to be taken into account. For those who are struggling with their past, that baggage is disorganized and can create problems and chaos. Some people though are very good at compartmentalizing and dealing with that. I know that in my case that one of the dichotomies I struggled with was how my then wife was able to seemingly manage just fine with a husband on one side and OM on the other as seemingly two separate things - not that I have any understanding of how her mind works. I do know that cognitive dissonance can be a coping mechanism. I certainly used it.
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Not much to report here. We had another bank of nasty storms roll through last night that involved me only getting about 5 hours of sleep as the power to my CPAP machine failed and came back. Such storms this late in the season are unusual here.
Work has been busy. One of my colleagues who happens to be a Sikh has invited me to his house-warming party and I'm trying to figure out if gifts are appropriate and if so, what I should bring. I asked an Indian friend - who is Muslim and not Sikh and he's given me some ideas. Gift cards was his opinion which is at odds to my normal. Normally I would bring food - ideally something home-made. But that's my culture.
The discussion on CWarrior's thread about smooching has been entertaining. My XW was certainly not a French kisses sort of person. Absolutely no exploring of tonsils or molars. It was good - I enjoyed those times with her. We were consistent, on target and there was always a true warmth in the exchange. She used to insist I kiss her good-bye every morning when I went for work even though most mornings it involved me waking her up do do that which I hated doing because she worked hard too.
In the limited dating experience I have had, I've tried to keep up but perhaps I'm just an ole' grandpa who thinks that there's more artistry and creativity involved than trying to emulate a tunneling machine. And even though I still have all my own teeth, I don't want to end up wondering whose I've ended up with after
Quite a bit of philosophy generated recently on here and on CW's thread. Interesting reading. Can't say as I agree with everything but that's no surprise to anyone.
Part of my disagreement is that the pool of people in the discussion has a built-in bias because the greater majority are LBS like myself.
Certainly I will agree that when my divorce agreement was finalized that it was certainly a kick in the feels that took me some time to recover from even though I knew it was coming. It was the culmination of a journey where I felt that I had failed. On the other hand, getting the actual piece of paper was a relief and a feeling of freedom.
I know for a fact that the finalization of our divorce drove my exh bonkers. The reality of what he'd put in play hit him, hard. He admitted to me that he didn't want this, had never wanted it. It was even more ugly than his leaving. So, no, I don't believe that LBS are the only ones needing a time out on relationships post D being finalized. It hits both people. A monumental loss has occurred, regardless of who initiated it. That loss requires time and space. Rebounds are not pretty, even if someone ends up in a LTR with the rebound person.
I swear, bttrfly is going to take out a restraining order on me for stalking, but ditto bttrfly as always. The LBS, which many of us are because we clearly want to put in the work while the WAS didn't, are not the only ones who need a reset. I think the difference, at least from my view, is the WAS don't think they NEED a reset. My XH made all sorts of declarations about how he was living for himself for the first time in his life and not going to worry about making anyone else happy and all other sorts of related musings, but at the end of the day, he couldn't make it on his own and went straight from me to his OW and married her. Now, he's in rapidly declining health, he's isolated from his girls and grandchildren because he moved up north to be with OW and for whatever reason, she's not hot on the trail of moving here like he originally thought she would be. Big shocker, but suburban Boston girl doesn't want to move to podunk Arkansas, population 1000 (and that includes 500 coon dogs). I don't really care if he is happy or not at this point, because he's become a non-entity to me, but from all of the inklings I hear from the girls (I do NOT ask, but they tell me stuff anyway, mainly when they are venting about how upset they are with him about various things) he's not any happier now than he was in the last stages of our marriage, so at some point, he's going to have to wake up and see that maybe the problem isn't solely on the other part of the equation but part of it rests in HIS lap. I don't know.......I just think WAS need that time too, but many of them are too caught up in what they are doing to realize it.
no restraining order for you Dawn. Just a chuckle and a hug
My XH made all sorts of declarations about how he was living for himself for the first time in his life and not going to worry about making anyone else happy and all other sorts of related musings, but at the end of the day, he couldn't make it on his own
he's not any happier now than he was in the last stages of our marriage, so at some point, he's going to have to wake up and see that maybe the problem isn't solely on the other part of the equation but part of it rests in HIS lap. I don't know.......I just think WAS need that time too, but many of them are too caught up in what they are doing to realize it.
This.
He admitted to me that he didn't want this, had never wanted it.
I never had any direct conversation with my XW that gave me any information about what she actually wanted. I know that when my "I'm done" moment came and I called her and demanded that she tell me if she was choosing me or OM she refused to answer and only cried. Prior to that she admitted to the affair and her intention to continue it but at no time did she ever say that she was never coming back. Certainly she was a classic branch-swinger in that way.
When I did my read-back to 2 years ago - which would have been when "B" had moved in to "her" house with "her" husband and "her" son I was informed by a well-meaning mutual acquaintance that her social media was full of bitterness and anger. This also coincided with the "lurking in the shrubberies" incident.
Now mind you she had lots of anger for our entire marriage that would occasionally go over into rage - but never directed at me, I just sat and listened to it and validated. She did go into a rage during the settlement negotiations that she "wasn't getting the respect she deserved" - I held my tongue that day quite hard. It certainly opened the eyes of the lawyers that she was perhaps not the meek and mousey woman with the mean and selfish husband that she was perhaps portraying. Didn't help that she had been lying to her lawyer prior to that either.
How she is now, how she feels about her situation, I have no clue. I was though surprised early yesterday morning that she cashed her monthly payment in the dark wee hours of the morning. Usually it's mid-late morning or even sometimes the next day. I have the money there as an e-transfer usually at least 2 days in advance but she only deposits it on the legally agreed to day. I will say this about her, once the agreement was in place she has been rigorous in abiding by it's pretty limited conditions.
I could speculate that she is tight on cash - she was very good at economizing, but not very good at budgeting. It was only after a very bad shock that we both worked together and I took on sole responsibility for keeping the books up to date that we got out of all consumer debt - just the year before she ran off with OM. Funny thing is that she had bragged to her friends about his money including the large insurance payout he got when his wife passed.
Not my circus, not my monkeys. 30 more payments to go and counting. Reading back what I've written - she certainly is in a situation of her making alone. Whether happy or not.
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Had an interesting conversation with my boss the other day. He commented - after we had been talking about risk management - that he knows that he is a generally negative person and looks for things to go wrong and apologized for that. He is tough to work for because being wrong is something I seem to be a fair bit.
Another crazy day here - time to get back to it.
I had a take-a-way lunch today and my fortune cookie said "Your dream will become reality today" - hopefully not one of the bizarre dreams I've been having lately
He admitted to me that he didn't want this, had never wanted it.
I never had any direct conversation with my XW that gave me any information about what she actually wanted. I know that when my "I'm done" moment came and I called her and demanded that she tell me if she was choosing me or OM she refused to answer and only cried. Prior to that she admitted to the affair and her intention to continue it but at no time did she ever say that she was never coming back. Certainly she was a classic branch-swinger in that way.
When I did my read-back to 2 years ago - which would have been when "B" had moved in to "her" house with "her" husband and "her" son I was informed by a well-meaning mutual acquaintance that her social media was full of bitterness and anger. This also coincided with the "lurking in the shrubberies" incident.
Now mind you she had lots of anger for our entire marriage that would occasionally go over into rage - but never directed at me, I just sat and listened to it and validated. She did go into a rage during the settlement negotiations that she "wasn't getting the respect she deserved" - I held my tongue that day quite hard. It certainly opened the eyes of the lawyers that she was perhaps not the meek and mousey woman with the mean and selfish husband that she was perhaps portraying. Didn't help that she had been lying to her lawyer prior to that either.
How she is now, how she feels about her situation, I have no clue. I was though surprised early yesterday morning that she cashed her monthly payment in the dark wee hours of the morning. Usually it's mid-late morning or even sometimes the next day. I have the money there as an e-transfer usually at least 2 days in advance but she only deposits it on the legally agreed to day. I will say this about her, once the agreement was in place she has been rigorous in abiding by it's pretty limited conditions.
I could speculate that she is tight on cash - she was very good at economizing, but not very good at budgeting. It was only after a very bad shock that we both worked together and I took on sole responsibility for keeping the books up to date that we got out of all consumer debt - just the year before she ran off with OM. Funny thing is that she had bragged to her friends about his money including the large insurance payout he got when his wife passed.
Not my circus, not my monkeys. 30 more payments to go and counting. Reading back what I've written - she certainly is in a situation of her making alone. Whether happy or not.
---
You have either entirely missed my point, are being deliberately obtuse, or trying to distract from the original issue which was why I believe it is a bad idea to become involved with someone who is still legally married to someone else.
I think that for any person who is arriving on the doorstep of a new life with a new partner, that the baggage that accompanies them has to be taken into account. For those who are struggling with their past, that baggage is disorganized and can create problems and chaos. Some people though are very good at compartmentalizing and dealing with that. I know that in my case that one of the dichotomies I struggled with was how my then wife was able to seemingly manage just fine with a husband on one side and OM on the other as seemingly two separate things - not that I have any understanding of how her mind works. I do know that cognitive dissonance can be a coping mechanism. I certainly used it.
Since I'm dating someone separated 1.5yrs, I also find the discussion of whether to date separated people interesting. It was probably 5yrs post-BD before I was a caring, loving partner again. My XW and I were spending hours together everyday even before her separation--we were almost an instant couple upon separation--and we lasted 10yrs. My XGF I met 9mo after her separation and 9mo into her therapy. if anything I was with her during a better time of her life than currently. I won't date someone a few months out, who can't control their emotions about their ex, or who hasn't found a life of their own. I do like it when potential partners don't demonize their ex's and recognize some of their own mistakes especially if they were the LBS.
The women where it seemed "too soon" were Ms AdorablePuppy who described her ex and her as inseparable and doing almost everything together and wanted that again, Ms Turkish who seemed to need rescuing after being abandoned by her husband, and Ms BunnyBoiler who oops I dated far too long despite her immense heartache 6mo after the end of a 6mo relationship. I dunno. Maybe it's unprocessed grief and not finding one's new life we should look for rather than timing or being divorced?
You have either entirely missed my point, are being deliberately obtuse, or trying to distract from the original issue which was why I believe it is a bad idea to become involved with someone who is still legally married to someone else.
Sorry bttrfly. I thought I had addressed that in an earlier post where I did mention that for me that when I got my separation agreement sorted out that it was a kick in the feels for me and a demarcation point between what was and the future.
Obviously not everyone agrees that dating while separated is a bad thing but I do agree that dating before you have your own side of the street clean is a bad idea. Quite a few people here like yourself do have a hard line on waiting until they have that piece of paper before dating and I respect that. A good number of people continue to "stand for their marriage" well past the time of divorce too which is also to be respected.
Earlier in my journey I was reminded here numerous times that a divorce is a "piece of paper" albeit one that has an emotional burden and that if someone chose to stand for their marriage past that point then that was their choice. Another set of opinions here was that when one spouse left the marriage that that marriage was over and any new relationship would have to be considered as one starting anew.
For me, it took time and effort to make the choice
independent of my now XW's actions and beliefs that I was done with the marriage. I am secure in my own belief that I did all I could and while I toyed with the idea of dating prior to that time, I did not.
Certainly the two separated women I dated were a bad idea for numerous reasons beyond the fact that they were separated. They had both been living apart from their former partners for numerous years, had already dated several people etc so obviously they did not believe that dating while separated was an issue
for themselves.
For me, it's more or less a moot point. I'm not dating anyone at present, nor intending to date anyone in the near future. If I do choose to though I will certainly take into account the things that I have learned on this journey both personally and from the input and insights of others.
Hope that clarifies things.
ty yes. I think the potential for hurt goes up exponentially when dating someone still married, all other objections aside.
This is the main reason for why I try to discover any dating candidate's breakup history. Anybody who has suffered the recent breakup of a long term relationship (the marriage thing is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned) is probably not a good candidate. You are far more likely to be a rebound for them than anything else.
I'm not so sure about the wait until there's a piece of paper thing before a person should begin dating somebody else. I know lots of WAS' who've managed to have very long-term relationships with the AP, or somebody who was waiting in the wings. They didn't need the Decree Nisi (or North American versions thereof) to be capable of sustaining a long term relationship.
Not so sure about LBS' though. LBS', by definition, have not had as long to process their reality. Shock, grief and discombobulation are things that need working through before one can truthfully say they are the person they're going to be moving forward. In my case, it took two years to get divorced and that was only because XH drove the whole process. I was in no way ready to be anybody's long-term partner. That wasn't possible for quite a long time - probably 3.5 - 4 years after BD.
One thing I am wary of though is the man who has been separated a long, long time from his XW but won't do anything about making himself marriageable. Whilst I'm well aware that there could be a raft of good reasons for it, it still seems a little like a defence mechanism - a way of ensuring no long term entanglement. It doesn't say they still love their separated spouse (although that is a possibility) but it certainly doesn't indicate emotional readiness for anything serious either.
bttrfly,
I know for a fact that the finalization of our divorce drove my exh bonkers. The reality of what he'd put in play hit him, hard. He admitted to me that he didn't want this, had never wanted it. It was even more ugly than his leaving. So, no, I don't believe that LBS are the only ones needing a time out on relationships post D being finalized. It hits both people. A monumental loss has occurred, regardless of who initiated it. That loss requires time and space. Rebounds are not pretty, even if someone ends up in a LTR with the rebound person.
Interesting. I haven't read through your complete history, but take it your ExH drove the affair/separation/D, yet got hit emotionally anyway by the D? I think there's a natural tendency for the LBS to get caught up in the Ex moving on so happily with everything going right in their lives and assume they'll ride off in the sunset and the next relationship with affair partner or rebound will last forever, but your case is an example of the Exs not always so sure about their decisions.
devvo,
I know lots of WAS' who've managed to have very long-term relationships with the AP, or somebody who was waiting in the wings...
Not so sure about LBS' though. LBS', by definition, have not had as long to process their reality. Shock, grief and discombobulation are things that need working through before one can truthfully say they are the person they're going to be moving forward.
You seem to be disagreeing with the general consensus, and think the WASs may be more capable of a successful LTR / non-rebound than the LBSs because they're further along in the process by BD? I guess that was what I was digging at in my original question. There was a discussion earlier about male LBSs vs. female LBSs, but I was curious people's thoughts on LBS vs. WSs/WASs due to the notion they're often months or years ahead of the LBSs mindset at BD. Wonder if that helps them in a way, or if to DnJ's point they have major issues being the one who did walk away and often don't self-reflect and just put on the band-aid.
bttrfly,
Interesting. I haven't read through your complete history, but take it your ExH drove the affair/separation/D, yet got hit emotionally anyway by the D? I think there's a natural tendency for the LBS to get caught up in the Ex moving on so happily with everything going right in their lives and assume they'll ride off in the sunset and the next relationship with affair partner or rebound will last forever, but your case is an example of the Exs not always so sure about their decisions.
Well, you won't be able to read my complete history because I asked the moderators to purge it, so I'll try to sum up, although it's pretty standard fare:
exh cheated, lied about it upon BD, monstered through mediation, started telling me he loved me as soon as we sold our home, monstered again when I said don't cake eat here. I'm not interested in crumbs, thankyouverymuch. Dragged his feet on pushing for the divorce, then went ape on me ironically the day the D was finalized, saying he didn't want this, never wanted this. I didn't understand it then, maybe don't fully understand it now, but he's perfectly followed the exceptionally horrific example of both his mother (WAS) and his father (LBS), and believe me, without my going into details, that took a lot of work on his part. Looking at it from a distance now I can only shake my head and say wow, I never realized how broken he really was.
Is he happy? I think he tells himself that, but really he's never truly lived with his AP/new wife. He moved to another state from her 9 months before they eventually married, which my son was not invited to, and which he described as "caving" ... he has no relationship with his father or his brother. His mother's health has seriously deteriorated in the past 9 months, along with my son facing a life threatening illness. His answer to that was to buy a place a further 3000 miles away (he's his mom's health care proxy, POA, etc). If he's so content why didn't he live permanently with his AP? If he's so happy why is he running, again, now 6k miles from his mom and son who both really need him? He's had more money than he knows what to do with, lives large, spending as fast as he earns, and I haven't pushed for what is owed me because I don't want to repeat the pattern of his parents divorce, which I know is what he is willing and able to do. That is the price of my freedom and my and my son's eventual peace of mind.
This is the main reason for why I try to discover any dating candidate's breakup history. Anybody who has suffered the recent breakup of a long term relationship (the marriage thing is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned) is probably not a good candidate. You are far more likely to be a rebound for them than anything else.
I think that this is excellent advice. Both of the women I dated were the ones who ended their former relationship because - so they said - the behaviour of their former partner was unacceptable. Marital infidelity, financial mis-management, gambling were among the various causes.
I honestly don't know but could assume that the spouse who leaves spends less time looking at themselves than those who are left wondering WTH just happened.
But it does show though I think how committed a person can be once they form an attachment. I know that especially with my last relationship that I was far less committed to trying to make things work than I would have been only a few years earlier. There's a lot of discussion here about attachment styles which perhaps isn't where you were going with this.
I'm not so sure about the wait until there's a piece of paper thing before a person should begin dating somebody else. I know lots of WAS' who've managed to have very long-term relationships with the AP, or somebody who was waiting in the wings. They didn't need the Decree Nisi (or North American versions thereof) to be capable of sustaining a long term relationship.
I think - and this gets back to your comment about rebounds - that those who have lost their partner in a traumatic fashion are much more likely to cling to the first bit of flotsam and jetsam that floats by. I know that places like this can be a place where two damaged people can find each other and cling - there are a number of relationships that have started here - one of the very valid reasons why anonymity especially among newcomers is a good idea. Can such relationship be sustained for the long term? Just like anything "it depends" - but starting from a damaged foundation can't make it easy. Which is where examining your motivations for forming a partnership is I think important. I remember regularly hearing from the loud fights next door "you're afraid you'll die alone" and "who else would have you". Don't miss that family. If it's because of saving / being saved, that certainly isn't in my opinion healthy. I do remember being frustrated with my own sisters who followed along with the cultural norms of the time and place we grew up who felt that they "had" to have a man - any man in their lives.
One thing I am wary of though is the man who has been separated a long, long time from his XW but won't do anything about making himself marriageable. Whilst I'm well aware that there could be a raft of good reasons for it, it still seems a little like a defence mechanism - a way of ensuring no long term entanglement. It doesn't say they still love their separated spouse (although that is a possibility) but it certainly doesn't indicate emotional readiness for anything serious either.
There are a good number of men, and I suspect a larger number of women who may have no interest in forming a new partnership but can be looking for a bit of fun. For some men - the opportunity to "sow their wild oats" can be tempting. I think that for women - especially ones who have been the primary care-giver - the relief of not having to care for anyone else can certainly be understood.
I stumbled on one of those odd corners of the internet where women are talking about managing their dating and it bears a strong resemblance to conversations I've seen here about "high value partners" etc and uses those same terms. It's interesting that what counts to these writers as a "high value man" is very different than what it seems like on the other side. But as S and her kids pointed out, there are a lot of man-child types out there.
Your comment about "making himself marriagable" is interesting - not putting it down - just digesting it. It's been said that I'm a "catch" - still have my own hair and teeth, decent cook, good income, reliable, takes care of himself and environment. The premise is though with both points is that I'm "eligable" - again assuming an eventual partnership. I dunno - I'm a very visual analogy kind of guy and the image that went through my head (to the tune of Baby Shark) was of just swimming along do de do de do minding my own business.
You seem to be disagreeing with the general consensus, and think the WASs may be more capable of a successful LTR / non-rebound than the LBSs because they're further along in the process by BD? I guess that was what I was digging at in my original question. There was a discussion earlier about male LBSs vs. female LBSs, but I was curious people's thoughts on LBS vs. WSs/WASs due to the notion they're often months or years ahead of the LBSs mindset at BD. Wonder if that helps them in a way, or if to DnJ's point they have major issues being the one who did walk away and often don't self-reflect and just put on the band-aid.
I think that it comes down to momentum. A WAS is already on their way out the door. An LBS - at least the ones here - are still attached to and dragged along to their departing partner. It takes a while to turn a big ship around - the more freight you are carrying and the more shoals in the way, the more difficult it can be (feeling nautical today).
Blergh - over-did it yesterday and am paying the price today. I did get my storm windows up but then instead of stopping or taking a break I emptied out the shed that the windows were stored in and gave it a good clean and then since the weather was cooperative, did some other maintenance work that also involved a lot of lifting and a certain amount of swearing.
My grass still needs to be cut but that's going to have to wait. It did make me think on how long I'll be able to take care of this place. Certainly hoisting the windows up and down when I'm in my 70s is probably not going to be something I can do on my own. I had a nice brunch with my son today and he mentioned that a friend's sons are doing grass cutting. I'd already had them in mind for looking after my cat if I ever do manage to get to go away to see my daughter. He also pointed out that I was supposed to have let him know so that he could do the windows but agreed that given how it's one of those jobs I feel that you just have to do when the opportunity weather and time-wise presents itself, that that could be tricky.
My son is doing fairly well - his beard has grown quite bushy. He had "the girls" in to their annual vet appointment and they are doing well. The information from their former vet seems to have transferred over without any problems. He's frustrated at work and is considering getting a transfer to another part of the same company. I did suggest to him that with his warehouse experience that there are lots of places that he could apply that to as well.
Getting ready for winter here is now in progress. I did find what I think is the last of the odour from S's cats. A small rug in the hallway has now been tossed.
I did read back here to 2 years ago. I was in a pretty good place despite having recently split with my first relationship post-divorce. Things hadn't started with S in any fashion and I was just more or less "chill". There was though a sense of optimism in that guy that is currently lacking. I'll need to think on that. I know where it went - it left when it turned out that there are people out there who are absolutely not a match at all and who cause damage in the process.
Still not feeling the urge to date anyone at present although I did notice how pleasantly curvy the owner of the flower shop was yesterday. She was wearing a tight dress that she's worn a few times and it shows off her figure quite nicely. No clue is she's seeing someone now or not - I've not seen her boyfriend around for some months and she and I chatted about how weird it is to cook for 1 now that her son has gone away to school. She's a nice person, at least in the customer / business person relationship we have, hard working, very competent and has lovely eyes.
That is one of the challenges with meeting someone organically. Are they currently partnered or not? Are they interested? Hard to tell and asking is just rude in some ways.
I did hear from C through the week - she was looking for a hard-to find ingredient for a recipe she has. I checked with some of my relatives and they can help her out. Still not sure how I feel about her beyond a friend assuming that's even a possibility. Nothing I need to make any sort of decision on - I at least have learned I hope to not allow myself to be dragged into anything that I don't want.
---
The house currently smells of fresh bread and roast pork. I'll need to get my scalloped potatoes on the go soon but back to my ironing. I have to do some pre-planning then for tomorrow's loads - we have about 45 tonnes of product that needs to be packaged including a new to us blend that involves heavy metals. I spent a chunk of Friday making sure that the people who actually know how to do this stuff had everything they needed to mitigate any possible spill. I don't expect any sort of spill but it still needs to be planned for so that we can act immediately if we need to. When things go sideways they can go sideways quickly. When I was in the lab on Friday one of the newer techs had a spill on himself. I just jumped out of the way while the other techs grabbed the proper kit, and dealt with it. I think he ruined a pair of pants but there was I believe no damage beyond that.
Early to bed tonight is the plan - sleep is the best thing for me when I over-do it.
bttrfly,
Interesting. I haven't read through your complete history, but take it your ExH drove the affair/separation/D, yet got hit emotionally anyway by the D? I think there's a natural tendency for the LBS to get caught up in the Ex moving on so happily with everything going right in their lives and assume they'll ride off in the sunset and the next relationship with affair partner or rebound will last forever, but your case is an example of the Exs not always so sure about their decisions.
Well, you won't be able to read my complete history because I asked the moderators to purge it, so I'll try to sum up, although it's pretty standard fare:
exh cheated, lied about it upon BD, monstered through mediation, started telling me he loved me as soon as we sold our home, monstered again when I said don't cake eat here. I'm not interested in crumbs, thankyouverymuch. Dragged his feet on pushing for the divorce, then went ape on me ironically the day the D was finalized, saying he didn't want this, never wanted this. I didn't understand it then, maybe don't fully understand it now, but he's perfectly followed the exceptionally horrific example of both his mother (WAS) and his father (LBS), and believe me, without my going into details, that took a lot of work on his part. Looking at it from a distance now I can only shake my head and say wow, I never realized how broken he really was.
Is he happy? I think he tells himself that, but really he's never truly lived with his AP/new wife. He moved to another state from her 9 months before they eventually married, which my son was not invited to, and which he described as "caving" ... he has no relationship with his father or his brother. His mother's health has seriously deteriorated in the past 9 months, along with my son facing a life threatening illness. His answer to that was to buy a place a further 3000 miles away (he's his mom's health care proxy, POA, etc). If he's so content why didn't he live permanently with his AP? If he's so happy why is he running, again, now 6k miles from his mom and son who both really need him? He's had more money than he knows what to do with, lives large, spending as fast as he earns, and I haven't pushed for what is owed me because I don't want to repeat the pattern of his parents divorce, which I know is what he is willing and able to do. That is the price of my freedom and my and my son's eventual peace of mind.
A bit of a sad thing today. A social media memory from years ago popped up and was one of the ones that my XW had interacted on. Looking at her profile picture it would appear that her dog has recently passed. I bumped into a mutual acquaintance later this afternoon and she confirmed that yes, the dog had passed in the past week or so.
My first instinct was to extend condolences, but no, she and I have no interaction so just leave well enough alone.
Even though I was not a huge fan of the dog, I remember how much he enjoyed "doing laundry" with me where he would go out and lay in the sunshine and eat grass while I hung the wash out. He was very disturbed and I think suffered a lot from separation anxiety in the time leading up to her actually moving out - she was gone a lot. I'd make a point of sitting with him and spending time with him. The puir wee pup wouldn't understand what was going on. He was part of a family that was breaking down in front of him after-all.
Hopefully across the Rainbow Bridge there is sunshine to lay in, grass and bones to gnaw on for him.
Hello Andrew
Given where you are now emotionally, like healthy and healed, I’d drop XW a condolence. Nothing ostentatious, maybe just a comment or text. With no expectation of response or otherwise. Perhaps something like:
I heard <dog’s name> passed away last week. I remember how much he enjoyed “doing laundry" with me where he would go out and lay in the sunshine and eat grass while I hung the wash out. Sad for your loss.
You and I are well passed the “need” to be dark or dim. Limited communication is now due to the current relationship. As in XW is not counted among the list of friends. Still, condolences for the loss of a family member, even the family pooch, is ok to do.
What we do or don’t do says more about us than the other person.
D
Oh hell no, DnJ - I wouldn’t recommend that at ALL. Andrew’s ex knows where he lives if she wants to get ahold of him. Leave sleeping dog owners lie.
And again, I thank god my ex and I split before either of us were on Facebook!
You know, I see both DnJ and kml's points of view on this one. As you well know from my FB posts, my sweet Molly girl passed in late May. My XH and I had gotten her as a baby and she was his companion when he was home with all of his illnesses. She adored me too, though, because I was the one who fed her, watered her, actually played and laid with her most, so when we split, she was the one thing I fought tooth and nail to keep. He eventually relented and it was me and her for the remainder of her life (until Sparky came along and she liked Sparky). Anyway, when Molly passed, XH didn't reach out to me at all. Now, granted, I had created a new facebook since my old one got hacked and I did NOT friend him on the new one so he likely didn't know, though I texted the girls and told them because they loved Molly too, so one of them may have told her. I say all that to say that I'm past him enough that if he HAD reached out, I would've been fine with it because I know he loved her, but I'm also ok with the fact that he didn't because it was just one less thing I had to deal with in my grief. I know you didn't actually ask us anything, but if I were in your shoes, I would NOT reach out. Yes, you are past it enough to be able to do so, but then that might open feelings on her end about how you are getting information and such. I'd let it go, if it were me. She has plenty of folks to console her.
doesn't sound like you and the wee doggle were all that close. I'd plant a flower in the yard where he liked to hang and call it a day.
Your acquaintance is out of the loop. Sadly, the dog passed in July. I would let it be.
In old news that is still on my mind... I shouldn't be surprised, but I can't believe S stole your smoke detector. I already didn't like how she was taking advantage of you when you were together, but that was low and dangerous! And definitely on purpose. I noticed you made excuses saying her crew didn't know what was hers and yours... but she knows and she has returned NOTHING! So glad you've moved on to the next chapter.
I'm excited to hear about your Halloween festivities and cozy fall meals.
doesn't sound like you and the wee doggle were all that close. I'd plant a flower in the yard where he liked to hang and call it a day.
That's a good idea.
Your acquaintance is out of the loop. Sadly, the dog passed in July. I would let it be.
Shows how close of attention I'm paying then doesn't it ...
I'm not going to reach out. I think it's reasonable to say that it wasn't an amicable split between us and I know that my XW put a lot of effort into hiding where she was living and what she was up to. When her parents passed, I did send a note of condolence to her via email and made a donation to the appropriate charity as specified in the obit.
I have no interest in having any sort of relationship with her and it's abundantly clear to me that if I were to be seen to be poking around her private affairs that it probably would not be welcome - at all. She was a very private person even before her affair and I would presume that's not changed.
I shouldn't be surprised, but I can't believe S stole your smoke detector. I already didn't like how she was taking advantage of you when you were together, but that was low and dangerous! And definitely on purpose. I noticed you made excuses saying her crew didn't know what was hers and yours... but she knows and she has returned NOTHING! So glad you've moved on to the next chapter.
Yeah - I know that when I mentioned to her son that the folding tables for the living room were gone that he had a sheepish expression. I was happy enough to see her gone that I wasn't going to make a stink about little stuff. I expect that it's all jammed into storage lockers, her basement / wherever. That rug she took is probably going to get a bit whiffy in the process ...
I'm excited to hear about your Halloween festivities and cozy fall meals.
Yep - soon soup season. This might be the last year for the sloop to be out as a decoration as I'm thinking of parting with it. I'm trying to figure out how to inexpensively do some sort of painted screen kind of thing that I can put out with a pirate ship on it and then roll up and put it away easily for storage. I do love Halloween though. I have a projector now that I'm thinking of it ... hmmmm
New thread time ...
Rebuilding and Renewal - 7
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2923750&#Post2923750
AndrewP,
A bit of a sad thing today. A social media memory from years ago popped up and was one of the ones that my XW had interacted on.
The picture memories (social media, or even Google pics) can be challenging. I love to see pics of my kids at a younger age but of course ExW pops up in them. Hopefully that'll get easier for both of us over time.
Looking at her profile picture it would appear that her dog has recently passed. I bumped into a mutual acquaintance later this afternoon and she confirmed that yes, the dog had passed in the past week or so.
My first instinct was to extend condolences, but no, she and I have no interaction so just leave well enough alone.
Sorry about the news. I wasn't never a dog person either but invested myself into ExW's for 9 years, so understand why people get so attached and emotional. ExW's dog hasn't passed yet, but is getting older. I plan to be there to console the kids when it happens, but don't plan to reach out to ExW about it. I wouldn't recommend you do either. Just my $0.02.
Dawn70,
my sweet Molly girl passed in late May. My XH and I had gotten her as a baby and she was his companion when he was home with all of his illnesses. She adored me too, though, because I was the one who fed her, watered her, actually played and laid with her most, so when we split, she was the one thing I fought tooth and nail to keep. He eventually relented and it was me and her for the remainder of her life
Sorry to hear about your dog. It's crazy the similar story. ExW and I also have a dog named Molly! Technically ExW bought her a month or two before we started dating, but I essentially lived with her for 9 years before ExW physically separated, and like you did the majority of feeding, walking, playing...and letting her out at 3am. I was never a pet person, but learned to love her. I didn't fight for any sort of half custody or back-and-forth as part of the D, just let ExW take her. I see and pet her occasionally at kid transition...but don't miss the middle of the night wake ups!
In old news that is still on my mind... I shouldn't be surprised, but I can't believe S stole your smoke detector. I already didn't like how she was taking advantage of you when you were together, but that was low and dangerous! And definitely on purpose.
Your girlfriend stole your smoke detector? That's...crazy. Don't ever revisit that R if she comes back.