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Posted By: CWarrior I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/09/21 06:38 PM
Long ago in a galaxy far, far away I had an XW (11yrs) and an XGF (8mo). My life's always been chaos, but my home's at a point I can have house guests over, and my Bumbling's improving.

Previous Thread:

I'm Climbing the Mountain (again) in 2022 III

Yesterday was an absolutely perfect afternoon date--that began and ended miserably.

I only had 5hrs of sleep when my alarm went off signaling I needed to leave in an hour to meet Ms Sunshine and go kayaking. I spent 15min in the shower, 15min on a picnic, and 45min on my car before deciding it was still a "D"in cleanliness plus no license (misplaced), no registration (needs a smog check), and a check engine light (why it won't pass a smog check). My front door handle broke unexpectedly on my way out. I started to wonder why I was dating at all?! I need to invest more time in ordering my home, car, and life!

I asked Ms Suneshine to drive. The kayak rental shop told us rentals could go to B but no further. We talked to the manager and he approved us going to point C, 2.5x further than point B! I was excited we got approval and she was up for it. As we rowed past point B, a ranger stopped us. "You can't get to point C! Does your rental shop know?!" We clarified we had approval and continued on. Ms Sunshine said it sounded like I was determined to get to point C. I said I was happy to turn around anywhere, I was mostly there for her company. Well, we got to point C and she wanted to go further! She opened up about all sorts of things. She said she felt so safe. When we got back, what most impressed me, was she wasn't tired out AND she taught me a new kayaking stroke. (:

I pointed out it was too late for our picnic and said it was okay. She called her XH to re-arrange her son's pickup time, and her friend to postpone getting together. I laid out 3 local artisan cheeses, grapes, shortbreads, wine, water, bread, and three types of nuts. She said she hadn't known whether to tell her friend this was a date or not. She stared into my eyes.. and.. I didn't say anything?! I felt VERY awkward. I don't know what I wanted. My whole plan had been NOT to label today and see what happened. I felt tired and not up to making a decision. I focused on my food. I talked about what I saw on the beach. I cleaned up. With the food in-between us gone, I sat closer to her like earlier. She seemed open to a kiss but I didn't know if I wanted that?! I said we should get going. On the way home I was quiet, and she filled the silence by asking me questions, which I gave brief non-answers to. When I left I gave her a hug and said bye, then she followed me to my car?! I gave her another hug and said bye again.

I sent her a text that evening thanking her for a lovely day, but decided to sleep on everything. I thought about what LH, Ginger, or Dawn would do. Then I thought about what my best self would say--

"So, yesterday, sitting on a scenic beach with you in a pretty dress after a perfect afternoon, I was taken off-guard but what I was feeling. I like you. I would love to take you on a dinner date, if the awkwardness at the end of the day didn't scare you off. ;)"

I acknowledged how I was feeling and acting oddly at the end, I didn't apologize because it wasn't "wrong" to do so, and I told her I was up for a dinner date. Even if she says no, hopefully clearing the air about what happened makes it easier for us to move forward as adventure buddies.

In any event, the next step is to organize my life before anyone looks too closely. (:
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/09/21 08:20 PM
hmm. interesting. there's a woman who you are comfortable with, can keep up with your adventuring self, and time flies when you're together, yet when she asks you if it's a date, you retreat. my bunnyboiler got more of a shot ... so, gotta ask -- what's up with that?

the answer to my question isn't for me, but for you and worth mining ... not necessarily worth answering here, but do please answer it for yourself.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/09/21 08:22 PM
^^^ ms bunnyboiler, not my bunny boiler. I've never had a bunny boiler. There was someone who I believe would have been a future restraining order candidate, but i sent him packing and never let him know where i lived.
Posted By: 97Hope Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/10/21 04:23 AM
I love that you followed up honestly. That's perfect, and also little vulnerable, which is brave!

I am wondering if you can figure out (for yourself), what gave you pause, and why you started over-thinking. Might be good for you to get to the bottom of your feelings. I know for me, I don't always know right off what is going on feelings-wise.

Does sound like a lovely day overall and yes, for the love of Pete get your car sorted lol
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/10/21 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by 97Hope
That's perfect, and also little vulnerable, which is brave!
Aww, thank you!

Originally Posted by Butterfly
hmm. interesting. there's a woman who you are comfortable with, can keep up with your adventuring self, and time flies when you're together, yet when she asks you if it's a date, you retreat. my bunnyboiler got more of a shot ... so, gotta ask -- what's up with that?
I feel vulnerable because I know her and she's in my social circle. That's normal.

In addition, I'm afraid she'll see me because her life's so together while mine's so disorganized. There are parts of me I don't want anybody to see. My car. My home. I need to fix those parts.

I'm afraid I'll hurt her because I've been a heartbreaker to the women who were good to me. I often breakup because I don't feel enough physical chemistry. Us guys sometimes like bad girls we can change. wink


All this is getting ahead of--we're JUST going to dinner and a movie together. Relax and enjoy. (:

Logistics--a) clean out car, b) wash car, c) fix check engine light, d) get smog check, e) fix registration, f) get driver's license, g) Cancel existing random first date since it conflicts. Yeah, I feel bad about that one. A lot to start hacking away at.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/11/21 02:59 PM
Since I have not been able to get in to comment on any posts lately, I'm late to the party, but bttrfly asked exactly what I was thinking so I'm good. LOL You remind me of myself, CW, in that you seem to overthink a LOT. Just relax and let stuff flow! Work on your car and your house and get those to a place you are proud of and stop over-analyzing every interaction. While your picnics sound amazing, I still think those might be a bit too much for a first date. Relax and enjoy...you got this!
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/12/21 08:29 PM
Thanks, Dawn70. My car is in better shape today. (:

Well, I needed a physical credit card for my daughter. Cue 2.5 hours last night working to resolve that. "Kid in need" cuts through procrastination! My D is struggling with returning to school. She had just started high school when COVID hit. She fell out of contact with her high school friends during COVID and starting hanging with middle school and activity friends. Now that she's back in school, she feels alone. I listened, I validated, I helped with what I could. In one of her classes, she said a girl was crying. She wanted to comfort her, but expected someone else would. The teacher and other kids ignored the crying student. That made my D uncomfortable. I told her the other kids may have similarly expected someone else to do something. It's a common reason for inaction. I suggested if she feels like it, to reach out--"Hey, glad you're feeling a little better." or "Hey, are you okay?" Hopefully she makes an ally. Making friends in new environments is an important life skill.

re: Ms Sunshine, she began texting A TON and I responded modestly. I enjoy her but couldn't keep up! Then her texting dropped off. Today we went cycling together and I scored points with her son. "Her son?!" you ask! I hung out with her and her son before this. It would be more awkward to start avoiding her son than to see him today as usual. No flirting this morning, of course!

Our date is tonight. My nerves settled and I feel chill. I will test the waters. I will do what feels good. I HOPE another kissable moment presents itself and my odd response hasn't quelled her eagerness! I know she likes ME, so I'm up for ANY direction this goes. That may sound strange since I'm usually all about slowing down anything physical.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/14/21 04:49 PM
I read something recently which may resonate with you. It certainly stopped me in my tracks. Paraphrasing, clutter is a tool used to help us isolate and keep people from really knowing us.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/14/21 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by bttrfly
I read something recently which may resonate with you. It certainly stopped me in my tracks. Paraphrasing, clutter is a tool used to help us isolate and keep people from really knowing us.
FlyLady refers to this as CHAOS. Can't Have Anyone Over Syndrome.

That's what I lived in for most of my marriage. My ex was pretty embarrassed by the condition of the house and we pretty much never hosted anything.

She was a pretty mild hoarder - certainly nothing compared to S - but it weighed on her mind I am sure. The dining room could only be used after a few days of work to clear things up which usually meant piling the stuff up in corners.

To me and what I've lived in the past, clutter is deferred decisions, not necessarily laziness. S's hoarding and clutter was indeed laziness, but with my ex it was deferred decisions. Not sure if you need something out of the paper? Leave it on the table. Not sure what do do with those craft supplies? Leave them where they are. etc etc etc The layers build, the effort to deal with it multiplies until it becomes overwhelming.

Not knowing CWarrior very well at all, I can't really think about the root causes here for his own issues. Certainly something that he might well want to explore. If I could be so bold, he seems like a thoughtful, creative and capable person. Given the various roles he's hinted at he undoubtedly has a level of organizational ability. Reminds me in some ways of my boss who has layers upon layers of paper in his office. He can put his hand in any one piece of it in a moment and is very competent at his job. Me, on the other hand, I'm a "clean desk" person. Different systems work for different people.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/14/21 09:24 PM
I am exactly like your boss when it comes to my desk. it looks messy to everyone else, because there are things stacked but I can put my hand on anything at a moment's notice. It was ever thus. They say that's the sign of a creative mind. I dunno. Just how I work best.

there are other quirks - my closet has to be immaculate at all times, as do the drawers of my bureaus.
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/15/21 12:50 AM
CW as I recall also grew up in some childhood chaos. So this whole business of house/car maintenance and cleaning may be things he didn’t see growing up?

And honestly, it takes a lot of energy and time, especially if one has STUFF. The more stuff, the harder it is to keep it organized.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/16/21 07:32 AM
As my date with my friend Ms Sunshine got closer, her texts changed from excited to trepidatious? At the start of the date, she asked, "How would this work--since we're also friends?!" She didn't respond to three attempts to hold her hand, and her hug for the first time included a "head dodge". We ate dinner, watched a movie, had drinks, and spent an hour at her place. We split bills. We made plans to see each other twice this next week, once short, once long. Friendzone. I won't lie. I spent the drive home and an hour the next morning lamenting missing out on cute and stable. (:

I had a date I won't bother to name. She started to plan our next date before I left, but when I texted to thank her for the day and confirm a time, no reply. I texted again the next day about my morning, and she responded about her morning. Low interest, maybe.

I'm canceling a date next weekend with Ms Turkish, who's into me. I love new languages and have picked up a bit--Merhaba! Ben su içerim ve ekmek yerim. Unfortunately, after 18min of a good video call, she got angry and hung up. She said after, she wasn't sure why she was angry, then she realized we'd been texting daily (7 days) and I'd missed a day and it was a particularly hard day. She's anxiously attached. She also isn't GAL'ing and is mad at her ex after 15mo. Moving on. What's most fascinating to me was my reluctance to move on. Her mood swings feel comfortable.

---

Socially, my life is solid. I have standing activities Thursdays, Fridays, and Sundays 1:1 with friends who enjoy activities with me and hanging out. I have two longer trips planned. I'm opening up more.

My car is clean. The repairs are slated for this week.

My home.. yeah.. needs work. Thanks for the thoughts, Andrew, Butterfly, and KML. Interesting ideas!

Parenting was a challenge this week. My D has been struggling with making friends and tough classes. I've listened, validated, and tutored her. I also faced a rare disciplinary challenge. Finding the right path is sometimes tough. She was hiding tears. I must have built up some cred between my help and vacation, though, because a couple of hours later she let it go.

The trouble was this. Her school requires her to carry a laptop. 3x they offered a free one and she missed all three pickups. 1x she told me she was going, 1x she told mom she was going. The "Last Day" passed so I told her I was going to go with her after school to talk to the office. She doesn't want me to go. She says, "Why can't you just buy one?" Me: "That's $400 I don't need to spend!"

When I arrive at the parking lot 10min from school, I call her and ask her to walk towards me and we'll meet in the middle. She says that's a waste of walking, is that necessary? I say, okay, I'll meet you at the entrance to the school. I get there and she's not there. I tell her to meet me at the entrance to the school and show me the way to the office. She claims not to know where the main entrance was, so I describe it. She then tells me meeting me would be embarrassing. She says to find the office on a map. I tell her she has 3 minutes to find me before I go into "Embarrassing Dad" mode. She says "This isn't funny." I say, "No, it isn't." 3 minutes later I begin calling out her name as I "search" for her. She finds me very quickly. When she tells me she doesn't know where things are, I stop other students to ask, and suddenly her ability to locate things becomes very keen. I get she was embarrassed to walk with a parent on campus, but I felt disrespected that she was wasting my time pretending not to be able to find me or the office and disobeying me, especially after creating the situation in the first place by not simply picking up a free laptop. "Embarrassing Dad" mode seemed like a fitting consequence.

When it was time to go, she refused to walk to the car. She said she'd only go if I picked her up. I said she could walk to the car just like me. She said could she call mom to pick her up? I said no. I said when I got to the car I planned to get a coffee but I'd be gone in 15min and then no ride. She said she wasn't going. I walked to the car. I did give mom a call so I could fill her in, but she was out. Her picking up my D would be a custody violation so I wasn't too worried about that. She sometimes comes to my place during mom's time, but that's only with mom's permission. Soon, I noticed D was following me.

It's rare I have to do anything disciplinary. I wonder what others see when they read this. It's hard seeing my D with moist cheeks from tears she wiped away when I wasn't looking. Was this cringe-worthy and avoidable? As a one-off scenario is this similar to things other parents of teens face?
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/16/21 10:26 AM
a. she doesn't want to be seen with her parent(s) (normal teenage girl stuff)
b. you were consistent
c. cringeworthy? yes. avoidable? I dunno. it's super early here so ... I'll get back to you on that later. I don't think so? she wasn't cooperating. they get into the corner and keep backing up until they're wedged so tight they can't move - at least that's been my experience with my son.

what other choices could you have made? let school begin without her having a laptop. let her deal with the consequence.
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/16/21 12:48 PM
Sounds to me like your daughter is embarrassed to have a school-issued laptop? Like it marks her as not one of the “cool kids”?
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/16/21 05:21 PM
Thanks for the opinions re: D. Yes, maybe she is embarrassed about the free laptop vs a paid one. I'll explore that. The consequences of no free laptop would be zeros for her classwork (too extreme), me buying the approved laptop ($400), or using ours (I worry about breakage and then needing to buy a new one). Money is tight. I have a dishwasher I still haven't replaced. I could maybe workout a way for her to earn the money if it was very important to her.

re: Turkish lady, who was alternately cute and angry, I finally told her we weren't compatible romantically and was out for our upcoming long date--but happy to continue chatting as friends.

Her: "That's lovely of you to tell me. I'm very happy to hear that. I'm so glad you didn't come to visit me! There would have been no point in seductions. Have a nice life. Bye Bye."

So, my dating queue is empty. Many matches, but no desire just now.
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/16/21 08:06 PM
Quote
Moving on. What's most fascinating to me was my reluctance to move on. Her mood swings feel comfortable.

This!!!! This!!!! Good for you for recognizing the unhealthy draw.
Posted By: DonH Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/16/21 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Her: "That's lovely of you to tell me. I'm very happy to hear that. I'm so glad you didn't come to visit me! There would have been no point in seductions. Have a nice life. Bye Bye

As many of you know, I speak fluent sarcasm, and this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ strikes me as a very sarcastic, passive/aggressive FU response. Even if not, she clearly is yet another OLD wackadoo. Smart move cancelling the date!
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/18/21 07:52 PM
Don, Ms Turkish left a good career (degree and on TV) and the bustling city of Instanbul to marry the American who got her pregnant. She's now isolated in a small town, unable to work or return to Turkey, sleep-deprived, and caring for a teething toddler. I "get" her being eager to secure a stable partner, feeling I was serious since I was learning Turkish, and getting anxious when I went from 2-3 messages per day to not replying for one day. I remember my own anxiety and lashing out at my XGF after BD when she went to an event and didn't respond for 12hrs. I guess the wackadoo bit is Ms Turkish only knew me 1-2 weeks. wink

I feel for people in need. I don't think that's a weakness as long as I don't fall for people in need.

---

Ms. TallChemist and I usually chat every 2-3 days and I realized it had been 5 days. I texted her and she said she was "good". I knew something was up. I texted her a bit about my day and she opened up that she was in a funk and hadn't left her house (except work) for a week. I had my kids, and I'm new to trying to make closer friendships, but I decided to invite her for a walk with me. She accepted. We talked as we walked. She's very emotionally open with me, brushed into me as we walked, and we hugged comfortably. I guess we're close. I invited her for an upcoming weekend getaway.

It's new being emotionally intimate without being romantically intimate.

Friend and acquaintance maintenance. How do others do it? Recall I've never had really long-term or close friends. I often lose friendships when I enter relationships. I have three friends I see weekly and a couple of other friends I'm planning things with, but I "forgot" several--e.g. Ms TallChemist for 5 days, Ms Paddleboarder for 7 days, MrCamper for 16 days, Ms Storyteller for 24 days, MsRichTraveler for 38 days. Some it's been longer. In some ways this is natural. MsPaddlerboarder has started school and is no longer up for Paddlerboarding regularly. MsStoryTeller lives 75 minutes away and is older so once my injury stopped our hikes I preferred the company of people close and closer to my age. At the same time, I spent many hours building these friendships and it seems a waste to discard them. Facebook posts? Monthly reminders to check in?
Posted By: pinn Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/18/21 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Friend and acquaintance maintenance. How do others do it? Recall I've never had really long-term or close friends. I often lose friendships when I enter relationships. I have three friends I see weekly and a couple of other friends I'm planning things with, but I "forgot" several--e.g. Ms TallChemist for 5 days, Ms Paddleboarder for 7 days, MrCamper for 16 days, Ms Storyteller for 24 days, MsRichTraveler for 38 days. Some it's been longer. In some ways this is natural. MsPaddlerboarder has started school and is no longer up for Paddlerboarding regularly. MsStoryTeller lives 75 minutes away and is older so once my injury stopped our hikes I preferred the company of people close and closer to my age. At the same time, I spent many hours building these friendships and it seems a waste to discard them. Facebook posts? Monthly reminders to check in?

Quality over quantity C-dub..... quality over quantity. Focus on the important ones.
Posted By: DejaVu6 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/19/21 06:12 AM
I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much CW. Honestly, the only people I manage to keep in my life are what I like to call “low maintenance” friends. [I am one as well.] The ones that you can go months without seeing and then when you do, it’s as if no time has passed.

Most people are pretty busy these days so it is hard to actively maintain a lot of friendships. I would say the vast majority of people get that because they are in the same boat. If they don’t, oh well…

Also…stop putting so much pressure on yourself to keep all these friendships going. Phone lines go both ways, you know. Put your energy towards spending time with people who go out of their way to spend time with you.

(((HUGS)))
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/19/21 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Also…stop putting so much pressure on yourself to keep all these friendships going. Phone lines go both ways, you know. Put your energy towards spending time with people who go out of their way to spend time with you.

THIS RIGHT HERE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Your posts leave me wanting to hug you and shake you all at the same time. Man, you must be an engineer because you over-analyze EVERYTHING. RELAX! Pinn hit the nail on the head, quality over quantity, but DV really drove home the point. You don't have to do all the work to maintain a friendship and if you are doing all the work, you are doing too much. Just relax and let things flow naturally. You do NOT have to follow a flow chart in everything you do. You obviously are a fun guy with interesting hobbies, so let that work for you. Your picnics sound amazing so, again, let those things work for you.

DV is right in that the best friendships are those low maintenance types. I'm one of those. My best friend lives closer to me now than we have lived to each other since we were in high school, but our work schedules, my marriage, his girlfriend, everything takes precedence, but I could call him right now and we would pick up where we left off with our last conversation. We check in via text regularly, though not as regularly of late as we used to, but life, you know. It is ok to not be "on" all the time.

I think I said this to you before and I think it bears repeating, though you may just think, this chick should shut the h#@#$ up already, but why do you have to have activities scheduled with other people ALL the time. Don't you ever have time when you just want to stay home and putter around the house or read a book or just be? Your escapades, while exciting, wear me out, but then again, I'm fat and lazy, so that could be part of it. I guess I'm just seeing that you mention needing to get your house and car in order all the time, but then you are spending inordinate amounts of time analyzing date moves, friendships, fitness activities, dates, meet-ups, kid time....when do you have time to just sit with CW and be CW? Totally rhetorical question here, so don't feel obliged to answer. I'm just telling you what I see from the very outside perspective.

Get you some low maintenance friends who you can make last-minute plans with or not talk to for a month. It will change the way you think of friendship. All relationship take work, but friendships shouldn't be about one person doing all the work.

Again I say RELAX! You got this!
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/19/21 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by Dawn70
Your posts leave me wanting to hug you and shake you all at the same time.

^^^^^^ So Much THIS!

You're so earnest, and I love that about you, but I have to ask, why does everything have to be so much work? It feels forced, the scheduled dating, the scheduled friend maintenance. I don't understand it. Where's the room for spontaneity? Where is the ease? So much of relationships for me just evolve organically. I think if you have to work so hard, especially on the front end, is it really meant to be???

To answer your friends question ... Just be your warm, genuine self. When something reminds you of someone, send them a text or give them a call. Don't wait. We always think we have time, but it's fleeting. If something happens that's funny or you think a friend would enjoy, reach out.

Here's an example of what I mean. For some reason i woke up yesterday with the Bee Gees You Should Be Dancing going through my head. This, for people who know me, would leave most scratching their heads, as I am not a fan of disco by any means. So in the traditional remedy for getting rid of an ear-worm, I listened to the song. INCREDIBLE rhythm section! Killer groove and bass! This morning my son was teasing me about it, so I had to listen to it again. Suddenly I thought of a friend of mine who would completely appreciate the musicianship despite being an avowed punk rocker, so I texted him, "Whatcha doin on your bed on your back" his reply, "sleepin in" I repeat the question ... then send in all caps "YOU SHOULD BE DANCING!!!" he sends back crying laughing emoji. in a second I will call him and play the chorus rather than saying hello. It's that kind of thing ... make sense? You don't have to actually see each other in a scheduled way to stay connected.
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/20/21 12:14 AM
bttrfly - did you watch the excellent Bee Gees documentary How Can You Mend A Broken Heart? It's on Hulu now. Fantastic.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/20/21 10:35 AM
Originally Posted by kml
bttrfly - did you watch the excellent Bee Gees documentary How Can You Mend A Broken Heart? It's on Hulu now. Fantastic.
nope but I will thx for the tip
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/21/21 03:57 PM
I hear you, Dawn. I decided to leave my Friday and Saturday free.

---

Butterfly, thanks. I will try to "let it flow" more. I'm an engineer, lol. It comes out in many ways!

I like that idea--text people as I think about them. That sounds more engaging and authentic. I usually wait until "later" when I'll have a "better" reply, e.g. one long enough for the care they put into their message, or when I've figured out our next activity. I'll experiment with this.

The weekly 1:1 meets. I guess I enjoy the predictability of some structure? I tried not re-scheduling my meetings for next week as an experiment--we'll see what happens!

---

Ms Sunshine texted about picking an instrument backu up due to me. I texted about repairing my car due to her. Good influences on each other, maybe?

Ms Sunshine wanted to chat. We talked about our days. After 45min, I wished her goodnight, and she asked if I really had to go. I said I could stay longer--she wanted to talk about our date?! She said she'd told me she liked some parts of the evening and I hadn't asked about that.

Apparently, she was surprised when I'd wanted to share a drink (I misplaced my credit card and $20) and when it was time to pay I requested a split (I misplaced my credit card and $20). She liked my company. She liked me holding her hand. My disorganization bites again. She wants a re-do. I said maybe. We had an engaging conversation about deeper things for an hour.

My home/car/life disorganization was literally a factor in the original BD where my XGF moved out, has turned off 4 dates who visited my home, and I've declined Ms Sunshine's requests to visit. I don't feel like dating anyone until I make some progress. That's today's goal.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/23/21 04:55 AM
Women are complicated. wink

After telling me "Thanks for sensing I'm not into more right now", then a couple of nights ago suggesting "We should do a re-do" and I left it at "Maybe", we met for kayaking as friends.

I tried to prepare my home for her meeting me here, slept <6 hours stressing about it, then decided to meet at her place. "I woke up early and thought I'd save you the drive over." We started in my car, but the "check engine light" and engine noises convinced her to switch to her car. I need a license, registration, fixed engine, and credit card. I feel like a work in progress. smirk

From here, the story gets stranger. We chat for a couple of hours on our way over and kayak for a couple of hours. I say we could stop at a beach or continue onto some cliffs. She suggests we stop. And, as we sit on the sand, SHE scoots closer and touches my hand a couple of times. I scoot closer. I hold her hand. When I suggest we leave, she leans more into me and suggests we stay longer. And the rest of the day we're touching each other more and more.

We eat a nice meal. I talk to her more about my family. Bad things. Good things. She already knows more than any of my ex's and I feel safe sharing with her.

I ask her what adventures she's up to the rest of the week. She says whatever I take her on. We plan a more adventurous kayaking trip requiring some training.

On the way home, we stop for coffee on a riverfront.

When we get home, she invites me in. It's 20 minutes until her son arrives. She looks up at me as-if expecting a kiss. I'm tired. I pull her in for more of an embrace than a hug. As she leaves against me I caress her back. She says it's wonderful. I say I should go before we get too distracted. She says she might like that. I ask if she's free a night this week, she suggests dinner in. I say maybe we make it together at her place. She asks why she's never at my place. I say I'm working on making it more organized like hers. She kisses me on the cheek and says she had a lovely afternoon.

What just happened? (:
Posted By: DejaVu6 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/23/21 06:32 AM
My thoughts… she felt pressure and got scared so told you she wasn’t interested but likes you so says let’s be friends. You responded with “no problem” hence removing the pressure so no more fear. You go out as friends but she now feels safe and in control of what happens. My advice…if you don’t want her to get scared again, is to play it cool. Be interested but not too interested. Remember… human nature is to want what you can’t or aren’t completely sure you can have. don’t play all your cards at once. smile
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/23/21 10:19 AM
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Remember… human nature is to want what you can’t or aren’t completely sure you can have. don’t play all your cards at once. smile
human nature is faulty. why we haven't gone the way of the Dodo is beyond me.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/23/21 01:12 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Women are complicated. wink
Not really. Be true to your word, direct and decisive and make them feel safe & comfortable.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
After telling me "Thanks for sensing I'm not into more right now", then a couple of nights ago suggesting "We should do a re-do" and I left it at "Maybe", we met for kayaking as friends.
Maybe is not direct and decisive. Do you want a redo or not?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I tried to prepare my home for her meeting me here, slept <6 hours stressing about it, then decided to meet at her place. "I woke up early and thought I'd save you the drive over." We started in my car, but the "check engine light" and engine noises convinced her to switch to her car. I need a license, registration, fixed engine, and credit card. I feel like a work in progress. smirk
So you changing the plans last minute may have stressed her out.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
And, as we sit on the sand, SHE scoots closer and touches my hand a couple of times.
Here she is totally interested.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I scoot closer. I hold her hand. When I suggest we leave, she leans more into me and suggests we stay longer. And the rest of the day we're touching each other more and more.
LH face palms his forehead. She is expecting you to escalate for a kiss and you suggest you leave. Strike 1.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
We eat a nice meal. I talk to her more about my family. Bad things. Good things. She already knows more than any of my ex's and I feel safe sharing with her.
So you feel safe and comfortable but the question is does she?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I ask her what adventures she's up to the rest of the week. She says whatever I take her on. We plan a more adventurous kayaking trip requiring some training.
She's showing interest here.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
When we get home, she invites me in.
She's showing interest here.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
She looks up at me as-if expecting a kiss.
She's showing interest here.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I'm tired.
WTF? LH face palms his forehead.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I pull her in for more of an embrace than a hug.
Huh? She expects a kiss and you embrace her?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
As she leaves against me I caress her back.
Odd move but sounds like she enjoy it.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
She says it's wonderful. I say I should go before we get too distracted.
So you basically block yourself? Strike 2
Originally Posted by CWarrior
She says she might like that.
She's confused because your actions are odd.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I ask if she's free a night this week, she suggests dinner in.
I thought you already made kayaking plans? That's a lot of future dates planned for a date that isn't going very well.
[quote=CWarrior] I say maybe we make it together at her place.
That's not direct and decisive.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
She asks why she's never at my place.
Fair question
Originally Posted by CWarrior
She kisses me on the cheek and says she had a lovely afternoon.
Strike 3 you are out!
Originally Posted by CWarrior
What just happened? (:
Well I explained it above. You should consider watching videos from Apollonia Ponti, Robert Glover and Corey Wayne. She is expecting you to escalate and when you don't she either thinks you aren't into her or she is getting turned off and putting you in the friend zone. Time and repetition and you will read the signs naturally.
Posted By: DonH Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/23/21 03:42 PM
I very often try to put myself in the other persons position (or shoes). If instead describing yourself and what happened you were describing me and asking why I acted the way I did, I’d say, “I’m just not into her”. That’s what I get here. She is being about as obvious as any sober woman will. You seem either not into her or afraid of anything progressing. There was really no confusion here, she was being very clear. Now I will add that her previous behavior could have added to your confusion. You maybe were still processing her previous reactions and not paying attention to her new ones. Thing is, typically when it’s a match it’s a match. This just strikes me as you’re not into her. If you are, I join LH with the far palm.

No drivers license? No registration? Check engine light? Dude WTF? These should all be red flags for any quality woman.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/23/21 04:12 PM
DejaVu, LH, DonH, such different perspectives and I see truth in all of them. It was a perfect day, my arm around her waist, listening to the ocean. Whatever else happens, I'm grateful I had this day in my life.

Originally Posted by DejaVu
You go out as friends but she now feels safe and in control of what happens. My advice…if you don’t want her to get scared again, is to play it cool. Be interested but not too interested.
I do sense she likes to be in control. She's a senior manager and part-time salsa instructor. She's pretty. She gets--and turns down--interest. She tends to date shy engineers. She was her XH's 2nd girlfriend?! But I think she wants her partner to take control, too. She wants me to plan adventures and is up for almost anything. On our dinner+movie date, she didn't respond at all to my trying to hold her hand 3x, but then described it as what she loved about the evening.

Originally Posted by LH
I left it at "Maybe", we met for kayaking as friends.
If I had been boxed into YES or NO I would have said NO. I figured that protected her feelings, and I wanted to focus on organizing my home/car/life before dating again. I realized my XW never saw my home for the 1st year of dating, which hardly seems normal. I want to own and fix my issues so I can be ready for a great relationship and true emotional intimacy.

MAYBE was to protect her feelings? Wasn't that better? It also left the door open for Sunday.

Originally Posted by DonH
No drivers license? No registration? Check engine light? Dude WTF? These should all be red flags for any quality woman.
Fortunately, she only knows about the Check Engine light. She knows I met with a mechanic on Friday who changed his e.t.a. from 1hr to 8hrs and I couldn't wait (had allowed for 4hrs) AND I attempted a repair that worked for 1 day AND have another appointment scheduled Tuesday. The DMV matters she doesn't know about and should be clearable as soon as my engine is good.

Originally Posted by LH
So you changing the plans last minute may have stressed her out.
I agree. Her entering my home would have stressed me out.

Originally Posted by LH
So you feel safe and comfortable but the question is does she?
Yes. She describes herself as quiet but speaks a mile a minute to me about everything. She nudges me to share, but unlike Ms BunnyBoiler, doesn't push me to share. I'm opening up like 15%, but it's more than I've ever opened up. Could be her, could be growth, could be both. (:

Originally Posted by LH
H face palms his forehead. She is expecting you to escalate for a kiss and you suggest you leave. Strike 1.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
She says it's wonderful. I say I should go before we get too distracted.
Interesting. You know, I do this with friends and acquaintances, too. I'm VERY wary of overstaying my welcome. Where does this come from? I need to work on this.

Originally Posted by DonH
Now I will add that her previous behavior could have added to your confusion. You maybe were still processing her previous reactions and not paying attention to her new ones.
Yes!!! She'd wanted to take it slow, then just be friends, then this. I was thinking "slow" felt REALLY good and I didn't want to ruin it by pushing anything too fast.

Originally Posted by LH
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I'm tired.
WTF? LH face palms his forehead.Strike 3 you are out!
Originally Posted by DonH
She is being about as obvious as any sober woman will. This just strikes me as you’re not into her. If you are, I join LH with the far palm.
I was tired. I was thinking I wanted our first kiss to be great and it had been 12hrs and two meals since I brushed my teeth. I feel you. I should have kissed her anyway since we were both feeling it. For a closed-mouth kiss it wouldn't have mattered much and she had the same issues!

I want and am afraid of intimacy. My "kindness and intelligence" pulls people in. My disorganization pushes them away. Long-term success relationship success, whether with Ms Sunshine or another, will come from putting my life in more order. (:
Posted By: AndrewP Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/23/21 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I wanted to focus on organizing my home/car/life before dating again. I realized my XW never saw my home for the 1st year of dating, which hardly seems normal.
CW - I know that this is an area that is important to you and is perhaps laudable.

I expect that this is one of the reasons why I never saw the inside of the apartment of the woman I dated last year for quite a long while.

This sounds like this has been an issue for you for a long long time, perhaps life-long.

I want to ask you a question though. Could you be ok in accepting that you have a messy lifestyle that includes things that don't work? It's who you are and who you have been. Not everyone enjoys dusting and scrubbing - I've even heard that there are some people who are ok when a picture is crooked on the wall crazy

Not everyone can accept that about a person, especially a person that they share a space with. The fact that the house became a place of chaos to me was one of several reasons I broke it off last fall with the woman who I was dating. Not everyone is me though and she had numerous friends and acquaintances that also lived in what I would consider unacceptable but was their normal.

Fundamental change is tough and very rare. And what you are tackling, while it may seem superficial and simple, isn't.

Just a thought.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/23/21 05:25 PM
Andrew, I guess it's both. I have to accept my home will never be in the same shape as yours, and I have to bring it up to a level I'm not terrified of someone knocking on my door.

I'm as concerned about the emotional reasons behind this as the physical ones. My parents, whom I am more or less estranged from, ship me a photo album every month of what they're up to. The last 4 boxes are unopened, 1 on top of my shoe rack, 3 in a pile under my desk. Why aren't I opening them, confirming what they are, and depositing them into the trash toter? I don't want to be on one of those "hoarders" shows in 20 years. I'm amassing "things", things that spark anything but joy.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/23/21 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by Don
These should all be red flags for any quality woman.
PS - I wouldn't want to date a lady who would "red flag" me over a check engine light. Cars need repairs sometimes--it's a natural part of life. "Sure, he's smart, kind, fit, and 10yrs younger--but his check engine light popped on! NEXT." ALL of those at once, I feel you though, lol.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/23/21 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by Don
These should all be red flags for any quality woman.
PS - I wouldn't want to date a lady who would "red flag" me over a check engine light. Cars need repairs sometimes--it's a natural part of life. "Sure, he's smart, kind, fit, and 10yrs younger--but his check engine light popped on! NEXT." ALL of those at once, I feel you though, lol.
my check engine light is on permanently. my mechanic told me not to worry about it. i don't plan on dating a Felix Unger type, so ... it's a non-issue.
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/23/21 05:59 PM
Quote
I'm amassing "things", things that spark anything but joy.

So - sounds like you're not hoarding, exactly, but feeling overwhelmed by stuff. And honestly, the more stuff you have, the harder it is to keep it clean and organized.

There are lots of inspiring shows on TV about clearing stuff out. But for now - do you have garage space open? If so - what about boxing up everything you don't use every day and putting it in the garage? Then you can sort through one box at a time, decide what to throw out and what to keep and what goes in storage in the garage. Once most of the clutter is removed from your place, you can much more easily keep it clean and organized.

As for the photos from your folks - do you want to know nothing about what's going on with them? If so, you can just throw them out. If you think they might send something else that you would want, open them when they arrive, extract anything you want, then throw them out. If you think you want to know what they're up to, commit to briefly leafing through it on the day it arrives then throwing it out. OR if you think you might want these photos of your parents when they're gone but don't want the emotions it stirs up right now, put them directly into a box in the garage when they arrive. Or you could leaf through them as they arrive, pull out one picture that you want to keep, and throw out the rest.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/23/21 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I do sense she likes to be in control. She's a senior manager and part-time salsa instructor. She's pretty. She gets--and turns down--interest. She tends to date shy engineers. She was her XH's 2nd girlfriend?! But I think she wants her partner to take control, too. She wants me to plan adventures and is up for almost anything. On our dinner+movie date, she didn't respond at all to my trying to hold her hand 3x, but then described it as what she loved about the evening.

I consider myself a pretty strong woman (my family would argue strong willed is more like it, but hey, where do they think I got it from???) as I'm sure most on here consider themselves. I have always been pretty independent, even in a relationship. I can, admittedly, be a pretty big control freak which I have always thought was one of the reasons that I do just fine by myself. Having said all that, there is a side of me that also likes for my man to take the lead sometimes and plan things. While I enjoy planning dates and outings for Sparky and me, I also enjoy it when he jumps in there with his own thoughts and ideas and works it out. As LH said before, be decisive.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
If I had been boxed into YES or NO I would have said NO. I figured that protected her feelings, and I wanted to focus on organizing my home/car/life before dating again. I realized my XW never saw my home for the 1st year of dating, which hardly seems normal. I want to own and fix my issues so I can be ready for a great relationship and true emotional intimacy.

MAYBE was to protect her feelings? Wasn't that better? It also left the door open for Sunday.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! No sir, "protecting her feelings" was NOT better. If you are not into someone, then be honest. Yes or no boxed you in? Do you see how that comes across? If a male friend had said that to me about a woman, I would've immediately said, dude, let it go because you're just not that into her. I think this goes back to what I say to you all the time. You seem to have this formulaic checklist approach for dates: if I do A, she'll do B, so C will happen. RELAX and let it flow and for goodness sakes, stop trying to force stuff and protect other's feelings. I'd be PISSED if a guy hit me with a maybe, let alone finding out later that the maybe was to protect my feelings because he wasn't overly interested.

Originally Posted by DonH
No drivers license? No registration? Check engine light? Dude WTF? These should all be red flags for any quality woman.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Fortunately, she only knows about the Check Engine light. She knows I met with a mechanic on Friday who changed his e.t.a. from 1hr to 8hrs and I couldn't wait (had allowed for 4hrs) AND I attempted a repair that worked for 1 day AND have another appointment scheduled Tuesday. The DMV matters she doesn't know about and should be clearable as soon as my engine is good.

Yep, totally agree with Don on this one! Now listen, I'll just be honest, my sweet little 2004 GMC pickup had the check engine light on all the time, despite going to the mechanic pretty regularly so I just learned to live with it since I KNEW there was nothing wrong, but that is a glitch that not all vehicles have, so if it was JUST the check engine light, I would probably disagree with Don, because been there done that, but the rest of it waves a big ole red flag.


Originally Posted by LH
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I'm tired.
WTF? LH face palms his forehead.Strike 3 you are out!
Originally Posted by DonH
She is being about as obvious as any sober woman will. This just strikes me as you’re not into her. If you are, I join LH with the far palm.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I was tired. I was thinking I wanted our first kiss to be great and it had been 12hrs and two meals since I brushed my teeth. I feel you. I should have kissed her anyway since we were both feeling it. For a closed-mouth kiss it wouldn't have mattered much and she had the same issues!

And yet again, you give an example of the formulaic stuff I'm talking about. You are way overthinking this stuff. If you like her and want to kiss her, who gives a flying fig if it has been 12 hours and 2 meals? She's in the same boat unless she's sneaking off the bathroom and brushing her teeth every time y'all eat. You do NOT have to overthink and overanalyze everything and I worry that you are literally going to stress yourself into a heart attack if you don't learn to relax and go with the flow more.

You keep mentioning getting your house and car in order before you get into a serious relationship and in my mind that begs the question, then why are you working so hard to get all these dates? I mean, if this is fun for you, then go for it, but if you are stressing over organization things then overanalyzing every little detail, then I'm not seeing how you are getting a lot of fun out of it.

I dig that you come here and really delve into your goals, drives, thoughts, but at the same time, it makes me wonder continually if you have really prioritized things in a way that benefits you. Would you be less stressed in general if your house and car were organized? Is there some underlying reason behind why they are the way they are? Would you be less stressed if you backed off of dating and focused on your environment for a little bit to cut yourself some slack. I may be way wrong and totally misinterpreting everything, but to me, all of your posts read like a person who spends ALL his time being "on" looking for dates, planning dates, having dates, then wondering why you never have time to work on your own stuff. What if you decided you were going to push back dating for a month or even a few weeks to really focus on your car and house. For me, when I am faced with such challenges, I set small goals, then as I check those small goals off, I begin to get excited because I see things getting checked off the list. I realize not everyone is similarly motivated and that is fine if you aren't, but it is worth thinking about at least making a list of your priorities and figuring out how best to tackle getting your life in order the way you want to and even more importantly, deciding exactly what that looks like. It is easy for me (or anyone looking from the outside, for that matter) to say you should do x, y, and z to get your stuff together, but maybe you need to do e, f, and g first, you know? What's that saying about how you eat an elephant.....one bite at a time. wink

RELAX, man.................you have a lot to offer, so just relax and let things flow more naturally. Dating and meeting women shouldn't be nearly as much work as you are putting in. And, for the record, women are not terribly complicated, nor are men. LH gave you a pretty good blow by blow summary of how you interpreted things as confusing, but how your actions kind of muddied the water. Women want men who are open, honest, and into them. I personally also love flowers, a man who can cook, and if he can make me laugh, he HAS me. Sparky has a FANTASTiC sense of humor and that is exactly why I fell for him. Just chill....you got this!
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/23/21 08:54 PM
KML, thanks, that's an excellent plan.

Today/Tomorrow I called a cleaning service and ordered a new credit card. I will get as many boxes as I can at home depot, plus trash bags, booties, and gloves. All in the garage goes into boxes or trash bags. Then all in the house that's not obviously belonging there goes into boxes or trash bags. My cleaning service comes Wednesday. I should end up with a not embarrassing house.

Tuesday my car gets fixed. Wednesday is the DMV.

Originally Posted by Dawn
You keep mentioning getting your house and car in order before you get into a serious relationship and in my mind that begs the question, then why are you working so hard to get all these dates?
My last date was 8 days ago. I had zero dates scheduled. This was supposed to be a friendly trip!

I definitely feel something for her, and a competing need to put my life in order.

Well, I called her and told her I was smiling when I thought about yesterday. My plan was to switch to dinner at my place but she was giggling and already working on a recipe to cook me! She said she was happy I was thinking about her, too.

I think I may still have a shot with her. wink
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/23/21 11:19 PM
I think she was a little nervous and/or felt you came on a little strong in the beginning; once you promptly backed off and accepted being in the friend zone, she had space to think about whether that was really what she wanted. Or she could be psycho, that's always a possibility too wink

Take it slow and let her set the pace. Seems to me like she really realized what a good guy you were when you were willing to be just friends.

And good job on the cleaning service!
Posted By: LH19 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/24/21 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I think I may still have a shot with her. wink
It may be your last one. If she is having you over my guess she wants some sexy time. Be prepared to read her cues and escalate appropriately.

Whatever you do if she nuzzles up close to you DO NOT tell her you are too tired!
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/24/21 02:05 PM
Thanks, LH. Yes, I suspect seeing as we click in terms of fun together and conversing and religion and and romance—we both want to explore the physical side of things. Plus she sent me poetry ((swoon)). It’s hard not to have expectations. Chill. Let it flow. (:

Today is my big push to get my home in order before our date. Not because she’ll see it, but it’s like wearing new underwear. I’ll feel more confident and unafraid of surprise visits!
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/24/21 03:09 PM
I wish you a beautiful clutter free day ! xoxo
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/24/21 03:49 PM
Crank up some rockin' tunes! Always helps when you're cleaning.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/24/21 08:59 PM
The maid service bumped my Wednesday appointment. smirk The car mechanic took 3hrs instead of 1hr--they could only try what I had, charged me $10, said to find a higher-level mechanic. smirk

Getting things done is hard. I got my boxes and trash bags, though!

Now to choose a tune and knock out some things. (:
Posted By: 97Hope Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/24/21 09:13 PM
I'm a world class organizer/clearer. I so wish I could help. One room at a time. You've got this!!!

Getting things done is hard, but you will feel amazing!!

Sending strength and encouragement!! ((((warrior))))
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/24/21 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
The maid service bumped my Wednesday appointment. smirk The car mechanic took 3hrs instead of 1hr--they could only try what I had, charged me $10, said to find a higher-level mechanic. smirk

Getting things done is hard. I got my boxes and trash bags, though!

Now to choose a tune and knock out some things. (:
yes. it is. may i recommend the rolling stones in honor of Charlie Watts (RIP)
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 03:32 AM
Yes. I’m so mad the pandemic robbed me of my chance to see Charlie . I had tickets to see the Stones last year in June. Also had Carlos Santana and Earth Wind and Fire tickets which got bumped to this June, then bumped to next year in June!
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 10:28 AM
I'm the only person I know who has seen the Stones and remains unimpressed.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 10:52 AM
I came out of hiding and I thought I would chime in for a min on 2 things, if you don't mind.

1) this woman is not being confusing at all. You are. She is practically begging for a kiss and you tell her you are tired? I would feel awfully rejected and think you are not interested for sure. If you aren't interested that way, that's fine, but you are the one sending the mixed signals, not her. You aren't getting anymore chances with her romantically after this and you will for sure be friend zoned if you don't escalate a little here.

2) Your house, your car, your, life. I am going to be blunt, Dude, you are a freakin' adult! We are the same age I believe. Are you driving your kids around in this what sounds like a dangerous car with no license and registration and barely an engine?!? This is all a very high priority. Before any 12 hour hikes, circuit training at the gym, all day kayaking adventures, this is your number one! This is something you take a day off of work for!

ANd then you complain it took 3 hours vs. 1 at the mechanic?! Dude, you take these all day adventures but 3 hours getting your car fixed is too long?! Your priorities are on backwards, I am afraid.

The cleaning service. They aren't going to touch your house until you get rid of the clutter. They can't clean effectively unless the surfaces are clear. This is also something you should be taking a day off of work or your adventures for. Or hire a professional organizer, THEN a cleaning service. I know it can be extremely overwhelming. Like everyone says , break down the tasks, spaces, rooms. Your kids should be helping likewise. Do you they contribute to this clutter? Would they like a cleaner, neater house? Why did you pay someone $200 to wash dishes (which is the cost of a whole house cleaning) when you have 2 kids and yourself to knock it out?

As a woman your age, in the dating scene I have to admit, if I walked into what I was envisioning, I think that would be it. And I'm not the tidiest person. CLean for sure, but I have some clutter due to no closet space. I think you will feel infinitely better once you take care of this. YOur confidence will peak. You'll feel better about yourself which will lead to feeling more confident with the ladies. Set the example for your kids too. SHow them where priorities lie and how to take care of a home and your car and all the responsibilities of an adult. Show them you can play and adventure all you want once the boring no fun adult stuff is done. My daughter is having a friend over tonight, and she knows if that sink isn't cleared, her crap isn't away, and whatever other chores I give her aren't done, her friend doesn't come over. And i know if I don't do my chores, I cant play either!!!! I may possibly be having a guy over to my house for a bit tomorrow night for the first time. And nothing kicks my butt in gear to clean more than knowing a romantic partner is going to see my home! Honestly,

I hope I wasn't too harsh. But I think you need a little kick in the patootie.I promise you'll thank me later. I think you will feel like million bucks when you take care of all this stuff and your confidence will be thorough the roof.
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 01:10 PM
Lol Ginger comes out with the 2x4s swinging!

I think you might have missed a couple things, girl - like the fact that this woman told him on their first date that she only wanted to be friends, and he respected that - now she’s doing a head-spinning 180. Or the fact that since CW experienced homelessness in his childhood, he may still be learning things about managing his household and life that most of us grew up learning.

And to his credit, he is starting to address all those things. They won’t disappear overnight. He’s started making it a priority. CW I give you kudos for tackling what has seemed like an overwhelming challenge at times. You’re getting there!

Now G - tell us about this new guy you’ve got coming over? Hope you’re doing well.
Posted By: OwnIt Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 02:30 PM
CW, I just read through this thread. You seem like a really great guy, but I'm shaking my head and chuckling a little. I don't think I've ever read a perspective from someone who is literally the complete opposite of me. I found it interesting. I love to get rid of things. If I'm not using it, out it goes. If I don't have a place for it, out it goes. My house is usually spotless with everything put away, but even so I don't like having people over. I have zero interest in dating (or even meeting people truth be told). I take my car in right away (or whatever else is having problems) and have not gone without a license/registration/insurance--ever.

It seems to me that the time you spend thinking about the things you haven't done and fretting about them is time you could have spent doing them. Maintaining a home takes far less time than cleaning messes that have sat about. Life is too short to live in a constant state of regret about the things you have not done.

I note that you glossed right over what bttrfly said, which seems to me as someone who read this thread straight through with no backstory, to hit the nail on the head for many of the issues you are facing:

Quote
clutter is a tool used to help us isolate and keep people from really knowing us.

This also seems to apply to your dating behaviors. You seem to engage in a lot of push/pull. I don't know anything about your relationships with your ExW and ExG, but were those laden with the push/pull dynamic? Were you by any chance raised by a borderline parent? I ask because I've known people raised by borderlines who exhibit some pretty similar characteristics. If this is a problem or something you might want to look into, consider looking into DBT, which is supposed to be the best treatment for this and helps people deal with the intense emotions that trigger it.

At any rate, it's very interesting as a woman to read a man's perspective who is working so hard at coming to terms with all of these things.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by Ginger
I came out of hiding and I thought I would chime in for a min on 2 things, if you don't mind.

I may possibly be having a guy over to my house for a bit tomorrow night for the first time. And nothing kicks my butt in gear to clean more than knowing a romantic partner is going to see my home! Honestly,
Ginger!!! Happy to hear from you and happy to hear this new development. I promise to get back to your 2x4s after I take my kids to school and do some more work on my home/car ahead of tonight's date--11 trash bags full, 13 boxes full. That's 1/3rd of my garage. It's a start.

re: Cleaners, good point, they bumped me to Thursday but maybe Monday is better so I have more of the clutter removed before they get to work on cleaning.

re: Car, I guess I was disappointed that 3hrs led to NOTHING beyond what I'd done myself. I guess I did spend that time reading and exploring the city with my son. I'll prioritize another mechanic today.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 03:09 PM
TOTALLY agree with Ginger!!!!! She said exactly what I was trying to say in my last post. When I pointed out your dates all the time, your response was that you hadn't had any dates scheduled and that your outing with this lady was supposed to be just friends. CW, I clearly didn't make my point well, but G was ALL over it. My use of the word date and your rebuttal that it was a friends only thing are just semantics. My overall point was that if you stop making time for all of these excursions whether it is a romantic date or just a meet up with friends and prioritize your house and your car, it will go a long way to getting your stuff in order the way you want.

I don't necessarily disagree with kml's response to G's post, but I think it needed to be said EXACTLY like G said it. You have a lot to offer and are clearly someone who is comfortable in communicating and learning things about how you can better yourself and be a better partner for someone. Those are awesome qualities. You have also alluded to childhood issues here and that may all well have to do with why your house and car remain in a state of "unrest" for lack of a better word. But, to G's point, if you want something to change, you have to put in the work to change it. I, too, was kind of bumfuzzled by the fact that you will spend hours driving to different outings, planning picnics, participating in various exercise groups and activities, but you canceled a mechanic appointment because it was going to take 3 hours as opposed to 1. I just want to know where you live that ANY mechanic appointment takes an hour, because I want to move there! Can't you just drop your car off and then go get it when they are finished?

I applaud you for getting the cleaning service to come in, but like G said, you have to do some work first to allow them to do their best job for you. You got boxes and trash bags, so now you just need to dive in.

I'm glad G weighed in because I wanted to say the things she did, but like she said, I didn't want to sound harsh because I feel like I'm always the one coming down on you, but since someone else did, I at least wanted to show my solidarity for their thoughts since I had the same ones.

I'll say this about your home organization. I like to think I'm fairly organized and keep stuff pretty neat and organized. It is easy to do when you either live alone, as I did before Sparky and I got married or when it is just 2 adults who don't have kids around to clutter things up. I moved into Sparky's house which he inherited from his grandparents. His mom and his aunt both have a bit of hoarding tendencies which they clearly got from Sparky's grandmother. We have a 3 bedroom house and one of the bedrooms is exactly as it was when Sparky's grandparents lived in the house because he lived alone and didn't need 3 bedrooms and his mom and his aunt didn't want him to go through and clean out his grandparents stuff, so we have a room where a bunch of stuff has just been piled on the bed and on the dresser and the door remains closed. I'm not proud of it, but I have kind of written it off as not my circus, not my monkeys. Sparky and I decided just yesterday that we are no longer waiting for his mom and his aunt to make a decision about the belongings of his grandparents, both of whom have been gone for years now. This weekend, we are going to open the door and tackle that bedroom and rid it of clothes (both his aunt and his mother are very small women while his grandmother was a fairly large woman, so it isn't like they could wear her clothes, even if they liked the style of them), any old bills that we know we will find stuffed in drawers and other such things. We'll keep any family pictures, jewelry, or other items that might interest his mom or his aunt and place those in a box and take them to his mom but everything else is going to either be donated to a local thrift store or thrown away. We are reclaiming that room as a guest room/toy room for my kids and grandkids to come and visit and have a place to sleep so we can spend more time with them. I have lived in this house for just shy of 2 years, so I tell this long and boring story to say, I get it. I know where you are coming from. I know it is easy for all of us to say just do it, tackle it one room at a time and all of the other things that have been said. But, I also know firsthand, it is even easier to just close the door and walk away from it and act like it doesn't exist.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by kml
I think you might have missed a couple things, girl - like the fact that this woman told him on their first date that she only wanted to be friends, and he respected that - now she’s doing a head-spinning 180.
She ask for a redo. He agreed. She showed interest. He didn't get the signals and most likely turned her off. That's on CWs.

If he wants to date and find a good partner, IMO he has to man up and get his $hit together. We all have pasts. That doesn't stop us from moving forward.

Priorities CWs!
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by Dawn
I didn't want to sound harsh because I feel like I'm always the one coming down on you,
Dawn, I've always interpreted your comments as coming from a place of warmth and kindness. I'll come back to the rest and OwnIt and Kml. Much food for thought.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
She ask for a redo. He agreed.
Here I disagree. I said MAYBE and the kayaking trip had already been planned as friends-only. I was going to get my house in order first and then consider who to date.

Originally Posted by LH19
He didn't get the signals and most likely turned her off. That's on CWs.
She wrote me poetry. Making a move would've been better, but I think she's still turned on. (:

Originally Posted by LH19
If he wants to date and find a good partner, IMO he has to man up and get his $hit together.
I know. My clutter was a big part of the stress when my XGF move in and moved out. That wasn't enough to change, apparently. Not that my XGF didn't have her own, separate problems that made us dysfunctional even living apart. My heart, head, and body tell me this woman is a good match. I refuse to let my clutter or being emotionally closed off scuttle another relationship.
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 03:48 PM
LH19, I'm not sure I agree with you - I'd be a little hesitant with someone who told me first they wanted to just be friends, then started coming on to me hard. I'd have a little trouble trusting that they would still feel the same way next time I saw them. Besides, it may have been good strategy (although unintentional) to leave her wanting more, since that seems to be what piqued her interest in the first place.

You're doing just fine, OW. And great job on all the trash and stuff! Before you know it you'll have a place you're proud to bring dates home to. And it'll be a big stress reliever in your life.
Re: the car - is it an ancient car, or a relatively newer one? Sometimes it's good to just bring it to the dealership where they have likely dealt with this same problem many times before, although it can be more expensive. Or if it's an unusual car (like an older foreign sportscar) really finding the right person is key. I used to have an MG Midget back in the 80's and there was only one guy in my city who really knew how to fix it; everybody else just wasted my time. He specialized in MGs and knew what the problem was right away. (It had a distributor amplifier which was mounted right next to the engine block, so of course it would overheat, then the car would turn off while you were driving in the fast lane of the freeway! It just needed to be moved away from the engine block then all was good. )
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 03:50 PM
Yikes - I meant CW not OW. Force of habit.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by kml
LH19, I'm not sure I agree with you - I'd be a little hesitant with someone who told me first they wanted to just be friends, then started coming on to me hard. I'd have a little trouble trusting that they would still feel the same way next time I saw them.
I don't necessarily disagree but he started his thread saying "women are complicated" and ended it with "what happened here". Women are not complicated at all but you have to read their signs. Yeah maybe he left her wanting more but she will eventually move on if she keeps giving the signals and he doesn't act.
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 04:04 PM
Yikes - I meant CW not OW. Force of habit.
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 04:06 PM
Quote
Women are not complicated at all

Lol, would have to disagree with you there, LH! As a woman I've often thought thank god I'm straight, because dating women seems so complicated!
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 04:55 PM
i think humans are complicated. i prefer wolves. not as dates, but certainly as pack members.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/25/21 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by kml
Re: the car - is it an ancient car, or a relatively newer one?
It's a typical SUV, 2010s, but much more off-road capable. It's had a sensor issue and now noise at 35mph+. The first issue prevents registering it. The second issue will prevent future long drives.

My mechanic was going to charge $100 to diagnose the sensor issue only in 1hr. After 3hrs--30min of actual work since I was watching--they said they checked and what I'd done was everything they could. They only charged $10 and said go see an electrical auto mechanic. I'm proud YouTube helped me check all they could. (:

The "electrical auto mechanic" is charging $200 but will diagnose BOTH issues today. 45K miles/yr of road trips add up. Two 1000-mile and one 2500-mile trip in the past 6 weeks. I need to factor in wear and tear (or rent) when considering future trips.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 12:15 AM
Engine code cleared! The electrical auto mechanic said it took him 5 minutes to fix the wiring--on the house. He also spent 2 minutes "touching up" my previous repair. I'm seeing him for "loud engine noise" in 2 days. His above investments tell me he thinks it'll be expensive, lol.

---

First kisses. Short. 1-2 seconds each. No tongue. Omigosh! Get me out of my head!!! How is it I'm Ginger's age (I agree) but sometimes feel like a teenager, lmao.

"Drop expectations.", "Go with the flow." "Don't be formulaic." "This is your last chance to kiss her." I guess, kiss if/when I'm feeling it, don't kiss if/when I'm not, get out of my head about expectations, worries, what this means for the future, etc. What is meant to be will be, and is more likely to be if I get out of my own way and enjoy the moment instead of strategizing.

Although, I put a change of clothes in my car. Boy Scout. wink
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 12:21 AM
you're killing me, Smalls!
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 03:20 AM
I’m mid-date. I went in for a kiss early on and she turned it down and keeps putting space between us. After preparing me a 4-course meal and writing me longer poem. I’m confused again.
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 03:35 AM
Congrats on the first half of the car repair!
As for the date - I’ll be interested to hear the rest of it.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 09:48 AM
I need to more about the kiss. Was it creepy and awkward or were you reading the signs and it felt like the natural thing to do?
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 10:40 AM
Maybe she wanted to focus on getting dinner finished and was worried if you started kissing she'd be too distracted? (Hopelessly optimistic ...)
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 01:59 PM
It was WEIRD. When I arrived she’d written me a long romantic poem, but she rebuffed my attempt to kiss her and kept some physical distance. Each time I pulled away (e.g., walk to a window and look out), she’d suddenly put her arm around me, kiss my cheek, run her hands over me. But each time I tried for a kiss or reduced our distance she pulled away. She told me she didn’t know what was happening. She liked to be in control, she was physically turned on by my intelligence and kindness and strength when I did things outdoors, but turned off when I spoke softly to her or showed interest or moved in for a kiss. She said these weren’t the right words, but being mushy wasn’t manly. I started to focus on other things and she said now I was getting it and she started cuddling up to me more.

I eventually told her it was late and I wanted to leave. She wanted me to stay. I stayed for another hour. She was cuddling heavily up against me on the couch. I felt a little uncomfortable.

I said I wanted to go, she said wait, turned on romantic music, danced slow close to me and moved my hands to her behind. She gave me a quick peck on the lips. When I tried to kiss back she said no. I left feeling frustrated. She double-checked we’re on for tomorrow.

Plan: Cancel today.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 02:03 PM
LH, well, she had just read me a romantic poem and was looking into my eyes, but she did not respond at all to my kiss. I’ll go with creepy and awkward.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
It was WEIRD.
You got that right cowboy!
Originally Posted by CWarrior
When I arrived she’d written me a long romantic poem, but she rebuffed my attempt to kiss her and kept some physical distance.
What did the poem say?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Each time I pulled away (e.g., walk to a window and look out), she’d suddenly put her arm around me, kiss my cheek, run her hands over me.
Have you read the distancer/pursuit thread lol?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
But each time I tried for a kiss or reduced our distance she pulled away.
How many times did this happen? Fool me once shame on you.........
Originally Posted by CWarrior
She told me she didn’t know what was happening.
Huh?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
She liked to be in control, she was physically turned on by my intelligence and kindness and strength when I did things outdoors, but turned off when I spoke softly to her or showed interest or moved in for a kiss.
Huh?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
She said these weren’t the right words, but being mushy wasn’t manly.

She has a point. What were you saying?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I started to focus on other things and she said now I was getting it and she started cuddling up to me more.
huh? Like what?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I eventually told her it was late and I wanted to leave. She wanted me to stay. I stayed for another hour. She was cuddling heavily up against me on the couch.
Why didn't you just leave?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I felt a little uncomfortable.
I'll bet. How many times can you go for the kiss and get turned down?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I said I wanted to go, she said wait, turned on romantic music, danced slow close to me and moved my hands to her behind. She gave me a quick peck on the lips. When I tried to kiss back she said no. I left feeling frustrated.
Can you say blue balls?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
She double-checked we’re on for tomorrow.

lol!
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Plan: Cancel today.
Well first I have to ask are you interested? If you are tell her you are not interested in being friends.

These posts are so bizarre I can't wait for the next one.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 02:48 PM
I wouldn't even go any further with this. She's clearly a nut. Next.

This has NOTHING to do with you. It's BS to say that being mushy isn't masculine, wtf? I don't know what you said, true, but she's given you a million reasons to think she's showing interest, moving in for a kiss when she's given you the green light in a thousand different ways only to have her behave like this is absolutely insane on her part. Fuggetaboutit. She doesn't know what's happening? Is she 14 and this is her first time alone with a guy? I THINK NOT. She knows exactly what's happening, because she set the whole thing up. No one needs this kind of mind f*c& ever, especially on the front end of a potential relationship. Consider yourself lucky and MOVE ON.

I guess there really is a reason why many people are alone after a certain age.

CW, follow your instinct to cancel today. Absolutely. Focus on the progress you are making over the things you can control - your car, your home, your personal space, your attitude and perspective. Trust that while you are taking care of yourself the Universe is taking note and getting ready to reward you on the other end, and it won't be with a push me pull you kind of person. That's a guarantee. The Universe does NOT work that way.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 02:48 PM
Okay, LH, instead of canceling I went with your line. She said we’re past friends and women need a little more time to develop feelings, and the moving average of us is really good, and in any new relationships there are going to be bumps as we figure each other out. She said she was up late last night thinking about it and talked to a girlfriend about it. I’ll give it another go.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 03:08 PM
Butterfly, thanks, I'm with you. I "get" this is distancer/pursuer and that's a turn-off. I don't want drama. I'll go through with today but I'd rather be working and cleaning my house. I guess our plans are going to strengthen my outdoor skills and she'll get that disinterest she's after?

I didn't use any mushy words--I think she was more focused on my actions: a) my rejected attempt at a kiss after being read a 4-section romantic poem she wrote for me and expressing approval at her creativity in writing it and her bravery in sharing it, b) when I scooted closer on the couch she popped up, c) When she asked me to move the table into the backyard for our 4-course meal I moved the c hairs from being across from each other to being on sides next to each other.

She did say the night might have ended differently if I'd invited her over and made her dinner.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by LH
What did the poem say?
I’ll paraphrase.

“Thanks for returning beauty to my life reawakening the joy of life and living.” She revealed she wrote it after our first kayaking trip, but shared it last night.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 03:36 PM
I wish I could see a video tape to understand what is really going on here. Very bizarre behavior on both ends.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by bttrfly
I wouldn't even go any further with this. She's clearly a nut. Next.
Yup!

And this from a guy who is well known for giving too many chances. She seems as full of fruit and nuts as a bag of trail mix.

And I'm not saying this because you didn't get your smooch or anything more. This chicky is playing games, seeing how much you'll put up with. Perhaps not intentionally, but as I've learned from my time as a boiled frog - it starts with something innocent and then each level of control gets reinforced until you feel that living under the gas-light is normal.
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 05:21 PM
Quote
I’ll give it another go.
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Run AWAY from the CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing about this feels right. Seriously. Your radar for crazy is broken but all us women here can see it.

First of all - super-romantic poem after first non-date - weird.
Second - this crazy push-pull "I want to be in control" "Romantic men are mushy" - NOPE.

Look, maybe she's someone looking for rough sex, or into being a dominatrix, or has some terrible history of being sexually abused, who knows? But obviously she's not just a nice woman who appreciates what you bring to the table - and CW, you bring a LOT.

I wouldn't waste any more time on her. You're gonna get sucked into the crazy and end up with another cray-cray girlfriend. Pull back now.

Hold out for the nice woman who seems as into you as you are into her, who reciprocates your affection, and who has a healthy life of her own. Meanwhile, put your energies into finishing your car/house/drivers license projects first before more dates - because when you DO meet that woman who has her act together, you want to have your together too. Build it and they will come.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Okay, LH, instead of canceling I went with your line. She said we’re past friends and women need a little more time to develop feelings,


No. This is Crap. She wrote you a poem, read it to you and made you a romantic dinner. She did that, not you. Then she played hard to get when you indicated interest. When you backed off and wanted to leave, she put YOUR hands on HER backside. She did these things. Not you.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
and the moving average of us is really good,


By whose standard? Hers? Yours? Consensus?


Originally Posted by CWarrior
and in any new relationships there are going to be bumps as we figure each other out.
Those bumps don't usually happen this early in the game, my friend. Think three months out, sure ... but three dates in ??? not so much, unless it's a train already going off the track.


Originally Posted by CWarrior
She said she was up late last night thinking about it and talked to a girlfriend about it.

The only thing anyone needs to think about at that early a stage is do I want to see this guy again. Maybe she's more into the idea of being with you than the reality, and that's about her not you.


Originally Posted by CWarrior
I’ll give it another go.
If you look at this dispassionately, she's already given you quite a lot of information about herself, she:

*likes to be in control
*likes the chase, but not the catch
*creates situations she cannot handle then turns it around on you by saying you aren't masculine enough (???? seriously??? who says that to someone they want to continue seeing???)
*behaves like a tease

Ask yourself some simple questions:

*Is this someone who behaves consistently in deed as well as words?
*Do this woman's actions match what she says to you?
*Is this someone who consistently makes you feel good after you spend time with her?
*Is this someone with whom you can feel safe/trust enough to be truly emotionally intimate?
*Do you want to be in a relationship with someone this controlling before you've even defined what it is you're doing together?
*Is this distracting you from de-cluttering?
*Is she ultimately going to add more clutter to your life?

What's her score?
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 06:59 PM
I'm not sure I can add anything to bttrfly's extensive and completely accurate list, but I agree with all the others saying step away from the crazy. You told us this was a just friends thing and now she is pushing and pulling and playing these weird games. She writes you a romantic poem but your being romantic is too mushy and not manly? I don't know...she just sounds like a loon to me. Is it really worth all the drama and the push and pull?

Good luck, man........
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by bttrfly
Ask yourself some simple questions:

*Is this someone who behaves consistently in deed as well as words?
*Do this woman's actions match what she says to you?
Clarifying:

Are her actions consistent?
Are her words consistent?
Does what she does match what she says? In the case of Ms. WafflyWaffler, does action a match sentence a or sentence h, i, j or q?

Ideally, action A matches sentence A

Do you get the track I'm laying down?
Posted By: may22 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/26/21 10:47 PM
I'm going to add my voice to the chorus here....

Quote
She did say the night might have ended differently if I'd invited her over and made her dinner.
No! This is such a messed up thing to say. What does that even mean?

I love how you're getting stuff done with your car and your house. Keep your focus there.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 12:28 AM
Originally Posted by may22
I'm going to add my voice to the chorus here....

Quote
She did say the night might have ended differently if I'd invited her over and made her dinner.
No! This is such a messed up thing to say. What does that even mean?

I love how you're getting stuff done with your car and your house. Keep your focus there.
YES. This really bothered me as well. It is a completely manipulative and screwed up thing to say.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 01:16 AM
I shouldn't have gone today. We talked a bit about what had transpired. I didn't feel understood. re: "Friends or More"--she was confused by the line I borrowed from LH because she thought it was obvious we were more based on the 4-course meal and her poem to me. re: "Kiss"--she likes to take things slow. I guess the "mushy" vs "manly" comment is what most upset me.

We did our kayaking. When we were done, she asked where I wanted to go. I said home was fine. She said she was rarely in that area so I acquiesced to lunch. She noticed I was distant on the way home, and was surprised when I left without any physical contact. I sent her a breakup text. A bit rash, but I didn't want to go, don't want a relationship with her, and just wanted this DONE.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 01:41 AM
Originally Posted by Butterfly
By whose standard? Hers? Yours? Consensus?
I enjoyed 2 out of 4 of the date-like events. The kayaking days were amazing (9 of 10 days). The dinners were bad (3 of 10 days). Had I not seen her any of those days I'd probably have had days around 6-7 out of 10.

Originally Posted by Butterfly
*Is this someone who behaves consistently in deed as well as words?
I answered your quiz. 2 of 7, lol. wink

Originally Posted by LH
I wish I could see a video tape to understand what is really going on here. Very bizarre behavior on both ends.
That would be nice! I know I'm doing some things wrong--my car, my license/registration, my home, not moving in for a kiss on the prior date. I know this lady is doing some things wrong--she has a controlling side and likes the distancer/pursuer dance. Whoever is at fault, how many of our dates did I enjoy, and is she a distraction from what matters in my life? That's my answer that ending this was correct. I will work on the areas where I need improvement for my next relationship.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 02:13 AM
Originally Posted by May
I love how you're getting stuff done with your car and your house. Keep your focus there.
Thanks. I really appreciate everyone's support.

Originally Posted by kml
Your radar for crazy is broken but all us women here can see it.
lmao.

Originally Posted by kml
First of all - super-romantic poem after first non-date - weird.
Right?! How did I miss this. I guess because she shared it 3 dates later.

Originally Posted by kml
Second - this crazy push-pull "I want to be in control" "Romantic men are mushy" - NOPE.
Yes. She has already over a dozen times asked my preference then went with hers. She's clarified by "Romantic men are mushy" she wants the space to pursue me. But I enjoy being romantic! I want to buy flowers and write poems. Although, 1st non-date is a bit early for me for poems lol. I have sent ladies poems a few dates in and written them poems a half-dozen dates in.

Originally Posted by kml
Hold out for the nice woman who seems as into you as you are into her, who reciprocates your affection, and who has a healthy life of her own. Meanwhile, put your energies into finishing your car/house/drivers license projects first before more dates - because when you DO meet that woman who has her act together, you want to have your together too. Build it and they will come.
Sounds like a plan. (:
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 02:25 AM
Thanks again. I read all of these throughout the day--just no time to reply 'til now!
Posted By: DonH Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 02:49 AM
Let's see if I can interject anything that others have not. Oh, I know, how about this:

IS SHE MS. BUNNY BOILERS COUSIN???????

Am I the only one seeing the similarities here? Writing a romantic poem to a guy she just met? Where in the heck are you finding all of these crazy women? Oh, yeah, that's right, where else are you finding these women, ONLINE DATING! I tried to warn you. I've said it over and over and over - the land of misfit toys - that's online dating. LOL

But why are you attracted to the crazy or if you're not really attracted to them, why do you keep picking them or if you're not even really picking them, why are you not spotting it sooner? One of those three should be valid to the situation if not all three.

I don't want to pin it all on you since again as far as I'm concerned, you've got about an 80% chance of finding broken or crazy or damaged or just not R material from OLD. It's really hard to get a good sense of what is really taking place since we are not able to see and experience it. All we have to go by is what you tell us and your point of view of it. Some of us were sort of pinning the blame on you - thinking she was normal and in a normal way was trying to give you the green light and you were just missing it and messing it up. Clearly not. This one is not totally or even mostly on you!

I'm just back to putting her in Ms. Bunny Boilers camp. Do others see the same? In the end, I can't say I'm surprised by many of the dates you've relayed to us here. My stock answer that I think totally applies is, "Yep, that's OLD, I'm not surprised." The only thing not typical is the number of dates you continue to get. That's not typical of many guys and even most woman other than really hot or beautiful ones. Something like 35% of people OLD report never getting a single date - I think that's the stat floating around out there. The rest is very typical.

Maybe you have to start vetting more and deeper or in other words being more choosy. You've clearly attracted some loons. Maybe stop giving the benefit of the doubt? I know it's a numbers game but you might need to dial back a bit more and be a bit more choosey.

Glad you dropped her. Then again, is it really over? What are the odds you're going to hear from her again? Pretty good I'd say. We'll soon find out.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 02:55 AM
Originally Posted by DonH
"Yep, that's OLD, I'm not surprised."
I didn't meet her through OLD. She's been an acquaintance for over a year.

Originally Posted by DonH
What are the odds you're going to hear from her again?
Since shé's within my circle of friends, it's a certainty.
Posted By: DonH Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 03:07 AM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by DonH
"Yep, that's OLD, I'm not surprised."
I didn't meet her through OLD. She's been an acquaintance for over a year.

Just goes to show broken or crazy is not limited to OLD - it's everywhere. (although I still strongly believe it's a higher incidence online, but they B everywhere!)
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 03:12 AM
I'm really proud of you for ending it now. Stick to your gut instinct on this one and keep the focus where it rightfully belongs - on YOUR goals.

(I can'f believe someone would ask you several times what your preference is and every single time choose her own. How selfish and just plain rude!!!) ... can you tell I really DO NOT like this woman??? You are worth so much more than this.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 03:18 AM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
re: "Kiss"--she likes to take things slow.
by putting your hands on her rear end????!!!

Originally Posted by CWarrior
I guess the "mushy" vs "manly" comment is what most upset me.[/auote] yes, it was not only insulting, but also seems intentionally emasculating.

[quote=CWarrior] She noticed I was distant on the way home, and was surprised when I left without any physical contact.
she's got to be kidding.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
I sent her a breakup text. A bit rash, but I didn't want to go, don't want a relationship with her, and just wanted this DONE.
. good bye and good riddance. expect her to linger for a while, as this is the pursuit part, or as we say when dealing with predatprs - your running away has probably sparked her prey drive instinct. stand firm..
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 01:22 PM
Don is dead-on accurate with his assessment of the bunny boiler vibes. I thought that when you posted about the weird "dance" from your date and said she was confusing. The first thing that popped into my head was no, she's not confusing, she's CRAZY.

I have followed along and not commented as much because I think I'm still confused about the whole thing. I either don't pay close enough attention when I am reading posts or I forget parts, but I didn't remember this woman was a part of your social circle already and I also didn't realize or remember that you had gone kayaking with her like 10 times. For me, this goes back to semantics because sometimes you are just describing things as an outing where others might say it is a date and I'm wondering if that might be part of the issue with this woman too. She's crazy, so don't think I'm saying she's not, but could she also be confused about where she stands...one time y'all are hanging out together as friends, then next time she's writing poetry and throwing herself at you. I don't know.

It is kind of a moot point with this one since you ended it (GOOD FOR YOU!). Like bttrfly said, STAND FIRM. She will come back around and likely up her game to get your attention again, so do NOT let her wiggle back in. She is NOT going to suddenly become less crazy...that just isn't how any of this works. LOL
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 02:48 PM
She sent me three texts (short/medium/long) trying to explain—

+ She didn’t want to kiss because then things get clouded by emotion.

+ She felt stirrings and wanted to see if they developed into desire. This was also in her poem.

+ She could see how the poem and 4-course meal were confusing. She was just excited to do these things, and the caresses, for the first time in a decade. They didn’t mean as much as they seemed. She’s had a friends with benefits (an ex) post-divorce, but these were her first dates.

+ The “mushy” v “manly” words were poorly chosen. She wanted space to pursue me. She said I’m very manly outdoors, but I’m timid or shy away from the uncomfortable. It’s sweet at first.

+ The “dinner at my place” bit—it felt weird I didn’t want her over. It couldn’t be that bad.

She apologized for the hurt some poor words had chosen, and said some of her actions would be easy to misinterpret if the other party had strong feelings. A window into what some women see dating me.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
She apologized for the hurt some poor words had chosen, and said some of her actions would be easy to misinterpret if the other party had strong feelings.
Honey, I've got no feelings, strong or otherwise, for this woman and that is NOT how I would interpret her actions, so I call BS on this. What is she trying to say here, that because you care more for her than she does for you, that you misinterpreted her behavior? Her ego is unbelievable. It's pretty freaking hard to misinterpret someone putting your hands on their butt. It's pretty freaking hard to misinterpret someone crawling all over you when you say you want to leave, and asking you to please stay. And frankly it's not clear to me that you care more for her than she does for you, just that you were following up on her clear signals and that she reversed course as soon as you did.

Here's another question: why does SHE have to be the pursuer? Why does everything have to be on her terms? Even when she asks your preference, it doesn't matter, she goes with her own.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
A window into what some women see dating me.

No. This is what this particular woman is claiming to see to justify her behavior. Do NOT buy into the BS.

Her text messages have only reinforced my position: she is not worth any more of your time or energy.
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 07:04 PM
Yeah, she’s wonky. You don’t have to get into details. Just say “I just don’t think we’re a match.”

This push-pull, “do I? Don’t I?” nonsense is the sign of a drama queen.

You did not come on too strong. You back right off when she said just friends.

She hasn’t been in a relationship in ten years, just some FWBs? For whatever reason she’s not actually ready for an actual relationship and that’s your goal, so - NEXT!

Also - I would NEVER tell a man I thought he wasn’t manly! If I’m not interested I’d just move on. If someone’s not my cup of tea I’m certainly not going to put them down for that! This right there tells you she is lacking in kindness.
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 07:05 PM
And PS - imagine how obnoxious it would be if a man told his date she wasn’t very womanly??? Why is this any less obnoxious coming from a woman?
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 10:00 PM
Butterfly & KML you're right, I had feelings, but I don't know that I had "stronger feelings" I thanked her for acknowledging the "manly" comments, sharing her perspective, and told her I was good to resume as friends and I'd see her (along with others) next week. She replied she'd been falling for me and dreaming about the future and she's hurt and disappointed. ::sigh::

Yes, I'm going to stay the course.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/27/21 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
She replied she'd been falling for me and dreaming about the future and she's hurt and disappointed. ::sigh::

Oh Puhlease. She needs to spare you this absolute BS. This ^^^ this is why she's been out of a relationship for so long.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
Yes, I'm going to stay the course.

Thank the Gods ...
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/28/21 12:19 AM
btw I'm sorry I'm so cranky about her. I have little patience right now.
Posted By: kml Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/28/21 12:28 AM
She was falling for you and dreaming about a future but she was avoiding your kisses? Nope, nope, nope.

Also, dreaming about a future when you haven’t even really gotten into a relationship? Sounds like love bombing to me. Or maybe Love Addiction.


Whatever it is, she’s not who you want. Resist the love bombing. Something’s not right with her. I predict she’ll try to pursue you, then turn catty if you stick to your guns. Thank god you didn’t sleep with her.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/28/21 12:29 AM
Originally Posted by kml
Whatever it is, she’s not who you want. Resist the love bombing. Something’s not right with her. I predict she’ll try to pursue you, then turn catty if you stick to your guns. Thank god you didn’t sleep with her.
OMG can you imagine?!!
Posted By: CWarrior Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/28/21 12:32 AM
I interpret it as you looking out for me. wink

I get she’s not a match. It’s not because she’s taking it slow, it’s because of the mismatched signals, distance-pursuer, and control. It’s easier when their response amounts to FU like Ms Turkish. It’s harder when they genuinely want you like Ms Sunshine. I’m turning down another possible future.

I do hope cleaning up my own messes will attract more consistent partners.
Posted By: DonH Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/28/21 04:53 AM
Originally Posted by kml
And PS - imagine how obnoxious it would be if a man told his date she wasn’t very womanly??? Why is this any less obnoxious coming from a woman?

Oh YES and wow, very good comment and thought. Why is that? Very good question KML
Posted By: bttrfly Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/28/21 07:31 AM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I’m turning down another possible future.

yes, you are. I hope you are considering exactly what kind of a possible future you are turning down. from where I sit it would be exactly the right kind of future to turn down - battles for control, abuse when she doesn't get her way. congratulations, if this was a test, so far you've passed with flying colors.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
I do hope cleaning up my own messes will attract more consistent partners.
this. yes.

hold out for what you want. it's easy to get distracted from that when someone pays attention and acts like they want you. it isn't about them wanting you.. it's about what you want. once you figure that out, everything else falls into place.
Posted By: job Re: I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized - 08/28/21 12:12 PM
New Thread:

I'm Going To Stop Being Disorganized II
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