Every Day I'm Shufflin' - DivorceBusting.com

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Prior Thread

Pyke notte thyne errys nothyr thy nostrellys
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2888804&page=1

Appropriate given the current circumstances.

Yeah - I couldn't stay away. Today's thread title is brought to you by an ear worm that's been stuck in my head for a few days now when I was thinking back to zombie apocalypses.

Lots happening here in Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan. Mostly related to the current scares around Covid 19. I was out doing my weekly shopping and even here the shelves are pretty empty. There's been I believe one confirmed case in the region but we do all know that it is just a matter of time.

I've suspended my traveling into Toronto indefinitely with the support of upper management and will be working out of the plant closer by. The office has just 5 of us and it's a secure facility. I've spent much of this past week in pandemic planning meetings. Many of our staff are long term employees who are candidates. One critical employee has a wife who is badly suffering already from COPD. Keeping our people safe is our top priority. I'm very fortunate that I have no worries about my job being too affected in part because the plant needs to keep operating as we provide product in to water treatment plants. A reduction in demand for base metals may hurt us in part as this inevitably turns in to a recession and our raw material supplies from oil refineries may be hurt if they slow down but overall we should be fine. The other side of the company that I don't currently have as much to do with will probably slow down faster. We were already down in the past year as demand for new cars slowed and a lot of what we make there goes in to consumer goods although perhaps now people will recognize how valuable single use plastics are in preventing contagion.

Personal life has also been busy. It was my 56th birthday on Wednesday and S and three of her kids helped me celebrate. S25 was at work but did I think appreciate the piece of cake I brought home for him. My D27 and her H called in via video chat from San Diego and I think were a bit shocked by the amount of chaos going on around me. S got me a nice card and has found a ball-room dancing class that we'll be taking. Something we've talked about for some time. I enjoy dancing but have no skills. Her boys gave me a nice card and some potted tulips that are just blooming now.

Sadly no card from D27 for the first time ever. She also didn't send me a Valentine's card. I "of course" have been sending all the usual things. We've only just now started talking again though and TBH while it bothers me that she didn't send a card, there are lots more important things in life. She's talking to me again which is much more important.

On Thursday S's D18 turned into D19. Since S doesn't drink I assisted at the liquor store where we picked up a bottle of prosecco. Since D19 has pretty much no education in spirits I think it was the glittery bottle that impressed her the most. She and her BF had had yet another fight that day. But they keep staying together. A few of her friends were there for food, cake and the obligatory social media posts. Her dad was there when I got there but left saying that he wasn't feeling well. He's a germaphobe and had been busily winding the kids up about Covid 19.

I have been worried that they would be planning on moving in here and told S that while I was ok with this as an emergency place to crash that I didn't want them here full time. They are not good guests. I spent much of yesterday shampooing the carpet in one of the bedrooms at S's apartment where they just let their dog defecate and urinate on the carpet and then complained about the smell. No apology. No offer to help clean. With S's back spasms she can't use the shampooer on her own and getting a teenager to do things is quite the challenge especially when the source of the issue is their sibling. It knocked me back a fair bit and so I rested quite a bit when we got to the house and S was understanding of that.

Fortunately the freshly minted D19 and her BF are going to be moving in with her dad for the summer. She has been living with S's STBX (everyone marking their bingo card?) for the last number of months but it's not been going well for reasons that are pretty obvious to me.

Things with S continue along. We have a few bumps and need to work on our communication especially when we're tired / grumpy. It's so easy to take things the wrong way. I do think that S has finally "gotten it" that I was a reluctant participant in my divorce and that I was content in my marriage so perhaps she'll stop looking for the reasons why I was such a horrible person that my ex had to cheat on me. It did create a new concern where she asked if I would take my ex back and I "think" she believes me that given how I was treated especially after bomb-day that I have no interest in having someone in my life who would do that to another human being. Much less someone that they had professed to love.

Not that my ex has shown any signs of regretting her choices. From what I've been told she and OM have bought a house together in the same town that S lives in. On a whim I unblocked her from social media a few days ago but I'm blocked on the other end so see nothing still. S did ask if she knew that we were engaged and I replied that it would be shocking if she "didn't" know. We then joked about her resuming hiding in the shrubberies across the street to check out her replacement like she did in the summer time. I do think in recent times that she's been spending more time with S25, a pattern from last summer as well. From what I understand most women who have essentially abandoned their children to chase after their "dreams" remember that they have kids when it looks like they are being replaced.

S25 and S get along quite well - but he's very good at being polite and social when appropriate. S certainly does no mothering of him though.

The boys are getting more excited about moving in. S13 told his Mom that he is keen on my S25 moving out so that they can move in (one of the pre-conditions). But he's also sad because he quite likes S25. I'm hoping to get more work done on the rabbit hutch this weekend but am unsure if I'll find the time.

Next weekend S was planning on going to Ottawa to do some dress shopping etc with her own D25 for D25's upcoming wedding. That may be on hold because of a variety of reasons. I'd planned on having a hedonistic bachelor's weekend doing some serious house cleaning and such. S is thinking that she may give that weekend to me. She's been over pretty much every weekend for months now which when combined with me helping her at the apartment has had me fall behind here. The basics are taken care of but it's a "lot" of work. I don't think that S "gets it" on how much effort I've been putting in to keep all the balls in the air.

I have about a week and a half of vacation planned starting April 1st which was in part to support the regional science fair where I volunteer as a judge. Last night I got an email from the coordinator that that's been canceled. Prudent yes, but I am sure that the kids who get to the level that I judge at, who have put so much effort into their projects, are undoubtedly very disappointed. March Break has just started here and it's going to be extended for another couple of weeks which S's S13 will be very happy about has he's barely started his science fair project which was supposed to be started just before Christmas. It is a weird dynamic for me as I was a high achiever academically even representing my region nationally at the science fair (yep - he's a nerd

) and my own kids did very well academically. S herself is in some ways better educated than I am but in the liberal arts. Her three oldest did graduate high school but the younger two are definitely struggling. Perhaps being here at nerd central will inspire them to do better.

My friend who supplies me with Girl Guide cookies let me know that the season has started. I wasn't sure when / if I could meet up with her to pick up a case to split between here and San Diego but I may see if I can do that while I'm on vacation. I'll need to make sure to be transparent with S when I do this as my friend is young, pretty, female and single. And a good friend. Not that S has anything to worry about but transparency is important. I'm not going to give up my friends of either gender though which hasn't been a thing at all anyway.

Meatloaf with mushrooms is planned for dinner. I bought a 1/4 beef (about 200 lbs) a week or so ago from one of my youngest brother's friends. Not because of any pre-planning for the apocalypse but because I knew that I would have a much more full house. Mushrooms were on sale so they will be part of it. Meatloaf is one of my go-to Sunday supper things so that with potatoes and veg are on the menu. I may see if S feels like making a desert. In our talks we have agreed that I will continue to cook probably for Sundays as I love doing it so much.

Gorgeous sunny day here. S, her dog and I will probably head out for a walk around town to get some fresh air and exercise and then go for soup at our friend's cafe. Then puttering, ironing etc. Life is pretty good.

Happy belated birthday! Glad you had a great day!

You often post about all of the work you have to do at S's apartment and that causes you to fall behind on your own home housekeeping. How did she manage before you were in the picture? How messy can an apartment get? I lived in one with my ex and it didn't take much to maintain it. Of course there was only the 2 of us and our pets living there. Why didn't the kid who allowed the dog to defecate and urinate on the carpet clean up the mess?? I thought it was funny that you chose the words defecate and urinate

Things that you post about your relationship are confusing/concerning. You're getting married, yet she is looking for reasons why your ex cheated on you?! She is worried about if your ex knows you're engaged... who cares? How's her own divorce coming along? You haven't mentioned the progress of that in awhile. Has she filed yet?

It's kind of sad that S's kids can't move in until S25 moves out. Personally, I don't think S and her kids should move in until you guys get married. But more so, it shouldn't matter where S25 is living as the kids will be his siblings. It looks like they are taking over his place by waiting for him to leave before they can enter. Is S25 no longer welcome to move back once he's out? I am glad that he's working now and getting ready to take charge of his life and be more independent. Will he be taking some furniture with him when he moves? Has 20something been by to pick up her things?

dream,

Andrew's wording for what the dog had done were changed to the proper names of the bodily functions. I have also corrected them in your response to him as well.

Originally Posted by job

dream,

Andrew's wording for what the dog had done were changed to the proper names of the bodily functions. I have also corrected them in your response to him as well.

LMAO. and just whom decides the �proper terms?� Is there a list someplace we can access?

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Lots happening here in Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan. Mostly related to the current scares around Covid 19. I was out doing my weekly shopping and even here the shelves are pretty empty. There's been I believe one confirmed case in the region but we do all know that it is just a matter of time.

I had the same grocery store experience. I hadn't been to the grocery store in about a week so on Saturday morning I went to the store to get a few items and I was really surprised. There were a lot a more people at the store than usual and they had fully loaded shopping carts. Many of them had huge amounts of meat in their cart. The toilet paper isle was completely wiped out. No toilet paper, no paper towels, no Kleenex, no nothin'.

There are no coronavirus cases in my county or in the surrounding counties so I was surprised by voracity of the hoarding. I don't understand the logic behind the things that people are hoarding. The cereal isle looked like it hadn't been touched by anyone, but all of the meat, which has to be frozen or refrigerated, was almost all gone. What's up with that?

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Once again, Happy Birthday to you! Did this birthday seem to sneak up on you? Did you get any good gifts? And, by the way, touch�, you surprised me, you're a crafty Canadian, but this isn't checkmate.

Speaking of birthdays, my actual birthday is in December, but in leap years, I celebrate my birthday in March. The reason I do that is a long and deeply personal story; it's not something I can readily share on a public forum. Friends and family often forget about my leap year birthday.

Originally Posted by dream

Happy belated birthday! Glad you had a great day!

Dream! Good to see you stop by. I hope you and the boys are all doing well. It was a very unusual birthday for me with the extra bustle and noise caused by involving S and her kids and mine being absent (S25 had to work) or remote for D27

Originally Posted by dream

LOL. Rather different from 4 teenagers, 2 dogs, 2 cats, 3 rabbits and a deceased fish plus an ex-husband who constantly "drops off stuff for the kids". The fish doesn't make much of a mess.

Originally Posted by dream

Despite us knowing each other (and my ex) peripherally for years, she's being cautious I'm sure. Having "the other shoe" drop has happened more than once. No clue on what's going on with her divorce. I'm not involved.

Originally Posted by dream

it shouldn't matter where S25 is living as the kids will be his siblings.

This is where I disagree. S's kids won't be his siblings. He's got a sister already and a Mom and an independent life. He will be spending only occasional times with S's kids for the occasional dinner. More like a "cousin" arrangement. He won't be part of their lives and they won't be part of his.

Originally Posted by dream

Will he be taking some furniture with him when he moves? Has 20something been by to pick up her things?

He'll be taking everything from his room plus a few other things from around the house including some of the kitchen stuff that will be spare. He's been eyeing the beef in the freezer lately too. S has two kids who will also be needing things. Her oldest daughter who is selling many of her possessions (cheaper than moving them) and moving closer plus her younger daughter who will be moving in with her Dad - who owns pretty much no furniture (yeah - he's an ex husband for abundant reasons). 20S has picked up some stuff. I have permission to dispose of a couple of the larger pieces of furniture. She knows of the deadline and will probably watch as it wizzes past. I've gotten more and more direct and she is very aware. I expect it to all sort out in time.

Originally Posted by doodler

I was told this morning that this will be my last day to come in to the plant. Actually the guy who has the office next to me told me this morning that a friend of his tested positive and that they had been over to visit a couple of days ago. I was thinking about what I might need that I didn't have and picked up 100 screws for the rabbit hutch.

Originally Posted by doodler

Speaking of birthdays, my actual birthday is in December, but in leap years, I celebrate my birthday in March.

Hey doodler, long time no see. I hope you had a very happy March birthday. Maybe we can get together sometime soon. Lately things have been insane for me, but I think it's beginning to settle down. My lady sends all her love.

Originally Posted by BradP

Hey Brad - welcome to the forum.

Please don't post too much personal information - my friend cadet won't like it.

Hey doodler and BradP!

I think it's a wonderful idea that you two get together sometime soon. Maybe today would be a great day to do so? It sounds like you two haven't seen each other in a while and right now, might be just the perfect time to do so. Just remember...6 feet apart, keep those hands washed and if you have to cough or sneeze, do it in the proper manner, i.e., hand over mouth or cough or sneeze into the elbow (like a bird wing bent).

Oh, and I also agree with LanceSijan., BradP, welcome to the forum and do not post too much info. In fact, I'm going to edit you lady's name.

Originally Posted by LanceSijan

Hey Brad - welcome to the forum.

Please don't post too much personal information - my friend cadet won't like it.

Hey Lance

I was going to come visit you but then I would want to give you a (((HUG))))) and for now it is not allowed
and will have to remain a virtual one.

I know that nobody but me really knows you.

You were such a hero during the Vietnam war.

Originally Posted by LanceSijan

Please don't post too much personal information - my friend cadet won't like it.

Thanks Lance!

I'm glad the moderators are looking after us. A little while ago I posted on the Newcomers forum asking the moderators if I shouldn't post about Andrew's habit of eating his boogers. They never answered me; they just deleted my post.

Did you know that Seawind catamarans are built in Vietnam? It's an Australian company, but the construction is done in Vietnam. If you know of anyone that could get me a big discount on a Seawind catamaran, just let me know (don't get too personal).

Originally Posted by doodler

If you know of anyone that could get me a big discount on a Seawind catamaran, just let me know (don't get too personal).

Did you ask Brad?

I think he lives near you

Originally Posted by Cadet

I know that nobody but me really knows you.

You were such a hero during the Vietnam war.

Isn't LanceSijan the same guy as Lance Boyle, the MASH doctor during the Korean war? I think he was also known as Cadet back in the day. I'd like to hug him as well, and maybe give him a little innocent kiss.

Sorry doodler,

You should ask Brad why it was deleted. After all, he should know it was inappropriate.

Funny, that you should mention Cadet having an alter here...it seems to me that you and BradP may be one and the same as well. I find it fascinating that someone has to come here and create more than one user name to post. Don't you find that fascinating? It makes me wonder why someone would need to create an alter especially if they aren't going through a divorce at the present time.

Originally Posted by job

Sorry doodler,

You should ask Brad why it was deleted. After all, he should know it was in appropriate.

Would it have been okay if I'd spelled it b00ger?

Originally Posted by BradP

Originally Posted by doodler

Speaking of birthdays, my actual birthday is in December, but in leap years, I celebrate my birthday in March.

Brad,

I'm hoping to see you in the next few months, that is, if we survive the pandemic. Tell your "lady" I said hey.

I think we should change communication channels. The moderators on this forum are crazy and I don't want to hijack Andrew's thread. I really hate thread hijackers. See ya.

doodler,

Now how was that question directly related to DB?

Originally Posted by job

It is fascinating. It probably has something to do with multiple dimensions of space and time as well as the fact that it's a leap year. No telling really.

Originally Posted by job

doodler,

Now how was that question directly related to DB?

Sometimes bad habits can create marital strife and dysfunction and I don't know of a medical term for green nose dwelling crusty things. I guess I could call it nose poutine.

Originally Posted by BradP

No Lance was a cadet(google him) but then flew jets over North Vietnam during the war and was shot down and captured.

No, the moderators aren't crazy at all. Enjoy the day doodler/BradP!

Originally Posted by Cadet

No Lance was a cadet(google him) but then flew jets over North Vietnam during the war and was shot down and captured.

He's clearly not the Lance I know, but being shot down, at least metaphorically, is very familiar to me.

Originally Posted by job

No, the moderators aren't crazy at all. Enjoy the day doodler/BradP!

Well okay, maybe delirious from the coronavirus?

I don't even TRY to have control over my threads these days. I hope somebody is sending job and Cadet batches of cookies ...

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I don't even TRY to have control over my threads these days. I hope somebody is sending job and Cadet batches of cookies ...

Since I'm the instigator, I guess I'll be sending the cookies. Chocolate chip, peanut butter, sugar, and lemon with powdered sugar on top.

But, I'm kind of surprised the moderators hijacked your thread. I mean really...

So, are we supposed to believe that doodler is Brad Pitt in disguise? I mean, using BradP as your alter ego handle seems pretty obvious but isn�t that usually how it goes?

Originally Posted by Dawn70

So, are we supposed to believe that doodler is Brad Pitt in disguise?

I'm much more handsome than Brad, but more importantly, I never would've left Jennifer for Angelina Jolie.

Originally Posted by doodler

Originally Posted by Dawn70

So, are we supposed to believe that doodler is Brad Pitt in disguise?

I'm much more handsome than Brad, but more importantly, I never would've left Jennifer for Angelina Jolie.

That is exactly what Brad Pitt would say if he was trying to throw everyone off his trail.

Originally Posted by Dawn70

That is exactly what Brad Pitt would say if he was trying to throw everyone off his trail.

Andrew,

Sorry to hijack again, but this is my last hijack post on your thread. Okay, maybe not the last, but the almost last.

Dawn,

One look at my bank account and you'd know I'm not Brad.

Since you don't have a thread...

Speaking of Brad and movies and throwing momma from the train; I saw a really funny train related video clip last night. It was an old SNL skit. A lot of the SNL stuff is just not funny, but this video was from 10 or 15 years ago. I was laughing uncontrollably while watching it last night, and when I was in the shower this morning I thought about the video and I started laughing so hard that I nearly passed-out right there in the shower. Google "SNL Jingleheimer Junction"; you may not have the same reaction to it that I did, but I think it's pretty good.

Well - I'm officially scared.

Read this this morning in a blog that I follow and thought it worth sharing here too

Quote

Goodness me, these are strange and uncertain times that we are living in.

I know that the vast majority of you follow my blog for light relief, for an escape from the day to day. And I shall continue to write it with the aim of delivering exactly that.

Today, however, I did just want to write one post in acknowledgement of the fact that, for most of us, life as we knew it has been turned somewhat on its axis.

Having spoken to a large number of people about how they are feeling right now, emotions range from panic to concern, from frustration to fear. For most of us, this is the first time in our lives that we will have found ourselves in a situation such as this, a situation over which we may feel we have little control.

Loss of control is one of the scariest things any of us can experience. It can be very tempting, right now, to feel that there is nothing any of us can do. But that isn't the case, and while I wrote this blog post initially as a reminder for myself - I thought there might be some of you who might also find it helpful, too.

We can't stop this current threat in its tracks - though there are measures we can all take to keep us, our loved ones, and the wider population as safe as we possibly can.

But there are choices that are absolutely still ours to make.

We can choose to look out for each other. We can choose to identify the most vulnerable around us, in our neighbourhoods, and we can choose to find a way to let them know that we're there, to do what we can to help.

We can choose to ensure our own self-interest doesn't prevent others from getting what they need. Nobody needs a car boot full of toilet rolls while the supermarket shelves are left bare. Regardless of what the next few months might hold for us all, each of us is still only going to have one arse.

We can choose to take the coping mechanisms that are right for us, in this time of uncertainty. We can choose to watch 24/7 news feeds, or we can choose to switch off all media access and social media entirely. We can choose to make the right choice for us; and, equally, we can choose not to belittle others who are making the right choice for themselves, too.

We can choose not to minimise any fear or worry anyone else is feeling. There is no right way to feel in this kind of situation; there are those who feel this is not something to panic over, and those who feel it very much is. We can choose to be there for each other, regardless of how we might be feeling.

We can choose not to take the "I'm alright, Jack" approach. We can choose to appreciate that, even though we ourselves might not fall into an "at risk" category, that that isn't the case for everyone around us, let alone their family and loved ones. We can choose to show compassion.

We can choose to reach out to those who live alone, for whom the impact of isolation can be almost as frightening as the virus itself. We can make the most of the amazing range of technology we have available to us to be there, even when we cannot be there in person.

We can choose to do everything we can to support and care for the real life superheroes working for our NHS, for our emergency services, for our care homes and for social services and for other essential public services. We can be understanding of the unimaginable pressures they are about to be faced with, and we can not be a total dick when we have to wait many, many times more than standard waiting times for any kind of medical treatment other than that which is quite literally saving lives.

We can choose to not forget to find the small pleasures and the humour in the everyday. Listen to music. Watch the leaves moving the in the trees. Sing loudly; dance around your kitchen; lose yourself in an amazing book; laugh at old movies. We can choose to make sure to find the happy moments in every day.

We can choose to phone every single person we love and tell them that we love them. Tell them multiple times. Tell them every time you are lucky enough to speak to them. For any of us who is lucky enough to love and be loved, we should never, ever miss that opportunity to tell those around us what they mean to us.

And we can choose to be kind. No, this virus can't be stopped with kindness, however much we might wish it was so. But the nature of the world we live in will be determined as much as how we respond to the circumstances with which we are all now faced, as it will by those circumstances itself.

It is easy to show kindness in the good times; it is far, far harder to show kindness in the bad. When we are scared, or worried, or angry, or frustrated, kindness to those around us is frequently one of the first things to let slide.

But we have a choice. No matter how out of control we may feel things around us are... we have a choice, in how we respond.

And I personally will be choosing to remind myself of that every day, because I believe that the way in which we respond right now, the way in which we treat our fellow human beings around us... that will as much determine the future of what our world looks like as any of the current circumstances which feel, at this point in time, so very much out of our control.

Choose to be kind.

Always ♥️

***********************************

Things seem to be changing almost hourly. Today I'm working from home as it was decided to try to run the office at the plant with at most one person. We can do it but it will be tough. I was told as I was driving in yesterday so quickly thought about what was needed and went to the hardware store and picked up a box of screws

Those who know me understand.

I'm typing this in my home office with the three "girls". Yes - today there's another one. S's dog Nara is here. A little MaltiPoo who is about the same size and colour as Liz and Amy. Relations with them are uncomfortable and they generally ignore each other but there is a certain amount of jealousy going on. There was a "to do" last night when Liz randomly wandered over and smacked Nara on the head which then escalated. Ah "kids". All three are in the office with me ignoring the perfectly usable rest of the house eyeing each other warily from different pet beds.

I've come to the conclusion that S has moved in although she probably doesn't believe it. She's spent pretty much every weekend here for months now. She went back to her apartment late yesterday to take care of stuff there but will be back later today and probably stay over. All of the plans she'd had for doctors appointments, going to see her D25 in Ottawa are all canceled. I suggested that rather than haul the dog back and forth that she'd stay here. That worked until about 1:30am when Nara and Amy decided to serenade me from the kitchen and I dumped Nara on the bed where she promptly laid down on the pillow that S uses and fell asleep.

While she and S13 were here yesterday they started to strip the wallpaper on what used to be my D27's room. It was difficult for me as I'd pretty much left that room as a shrine to my daughter. The chalk board where she wrote down poems and song lyrics, the marks on the wallpaper when we measured her height. I need to let go and fortunately S I believe understands that it's hard.

S's D25 her husband and their baby are moving probably this weekend from Ottawa to stay with his parents. D25's H is out of work right now as a massage therapist and they were going to move anyway within the next month or so. Not having rent will be a good thing for them. He's supposed to be starting a new job in the local city but that may be on hold. S will be very happy to have her daughter and GS close by. I expect that they will be spending a lot of time here. As is maybe the case for the oldest kids of a single-mom, D25 is extremely capable and uber-organized. S is hoping that she'll help with her own move from her apartment to here when the time comes.

I personally believe that this is going to hit us hard and directly. While I've not been hoarding, I usually have a good inventory of food and other supplies and did top it up with some gluten free options yesterday on the way home from work. Can't eat #8 wood screws. In the spirit of St Patrick's day I bought a 10lb bag of potatoes instead of the usual 5lb one

I had potato pancakes for breakfast this morning. S made sure yesterday that her family's prescriptions are all up to date.

I did also take the very very rare step for me and include a brief note with my ex-wife's monthly payment a couple of days ago hoping that she is keeping safe. No response. No surprise. She works retail so is, in my opinion, at a fairly high risk. She's always had a certain amount of health issues and handling cash and people's purchases gives a vector. OM I know is a fair bit older than her, perhaps pushing close to 70 at this point I think but I don't know anything about his health.

I did run in to her bosses / my neighbours last night while taking the dog for her evening walk. They are an older couple who are certainly in their 70s. They seem to have also acquired a dog who isn't clear on the proper way to walk. Other than the obligatory side trips to sniff things and to urinate on them (hi job!) she walks right at my left heel. I assured her that she was a Very Very Good Girl. Anyhoo - they weren't looking all that healthy and called to me to keep 6' away as we approached. Again, difficult when you are running a pair of convenience / liquor stores. They're nice people but smack dab in the centre of the at risk demographic.

Whoops! Power just went out. Running off my phone network connection. These are going to be trying times. Especially for those of us around us here who are going through the fires post bomb-day. Please everyone. Be kind.

Hey doodler. If you're bored you may want to emulate a friend of mine. He's currently sailing from Panama City to Puerto Montt, Chile ,via the Gal�pagos Islands on Virtual Regatta.

Haven't gone stir crazy here as of yet but it's only Day 2. S25 continues to be able to go in to work. The warehouse he's in has very strict hygiene requirements already and so he'll undoubtedly be fine. S's D19 called her Mom last night very concerned about the single parents and "old people" at the auto parts plant where she works. She also said that she's going to avoid me - 'cuz I'm old people too I suppose

The employer is pushing people to put in extra hours and is only giving lip service to isolation and hygiene issues. Her BF who works at Tim Hortons (coffee shop) has been officially laid off.

For us, we seem to have very inconsistent policies at our different sites. I'm planning on working from home and limiting my trips in to "town". I do expect the small grocery store across the street to stay open although many other main street businesses are now closed. I was pleased that most of our local chain grocery stores have adjusted their hours so that the first couple of hours are restricted to the more at risk customers.

I'm not sure what the plans are for S and her S13 who currently are here. He brought his video game console yesterday so he is perhaps now fully moved in (?) :P S17 is doing ok at the apartment looking after the critters and enjoying the peace with his brother not there. He works at a grocery store and has been getting a bunch of extra hours. We all are well provisioned at least for now. S made up a nice lasagna for dinner last night.

A friend of mine is in central Florida right now and hoping to come home today. Hopefully she'll be able to make it. She's older and has a lot of health issues but says that she's symptom free.

Let's all stay safe out there.

Day 3. Going mad. Listening to a podcast on the science of dog flatulence. All the rest of the house is abed including the dog. Personal hygiene is being kept current. The cats have taken possession of the dog bed so the dog is currently on mine.

S and S13 are staying for the week it seems. I loaned her my debit card and many groceries, some of which are unfamiliar to me, have been procured. It's weird having someone else cook. Linguine with alfredo sauce and chicken for dinner last night. Something that has never been prepared in this house before. It was tasty.

S is a bit stressed about finding room for all her "stuff" with 20S's stuff here. I moved some of it to the unused but enclosed back porch and sent a picture to 20S who - ahem - is not amused. But generally polite about it. S did bring the bulk of her Christmas decor and I found space in the furnace room for it. Some kitchen stuff has also been brought but not exhumed as of yet. S and S13 have been stripping wallpaper in the front bedroom that he's camped out in making good progress - up to a certain vertical. I'll have to do the ceiling, anything higher than 5' off the floor and anything that requires moving furniture.

She'll be going back to her apartment for the weekend to give me the pre-planned "break". I was honest when she asked and yes - much cleaning and a certain amount of beer drinking is planned. S is highly allergic to alcohol and some of the cleaning chemicals I have in stock also cause a reaction.

S's D25 and family are moving back to this area this week - earlier than originally planned.

Work is crazy busy trying to change procedures to accommodate social distancing and home work by many staff.

The circle of people that I have on social media seem to be focused on supporting each other and encouraging safe practices. A bit of shaming has been going on about people who have hoarded or who are ignoring the recommended precautions of no travel etc. S and I have a get-away planned for April 9th to the same local inn that we went to back in November. Hopefully it will still be on. We were going to talk to them about wedding planning as well.

One of the things that bothers me most about all of this is the uncertainty of how this will impact me as an individual, friends and family and the communities around me. How long until we find a "normal" again? Nobody knows. The impact on individuals will be profound. Many organizations and institutions are stepping up from local businesses to large banks to support the community and the recommended precautions. I am pleased that the world in general does indeed have a generous heart and believes in science.

I'm grateful that S is here to support me emotionally and to the limited degree that I need it, practically.

Well - time to focus on work. The podcast has shifted to a discussion of breast shape preferences among plastic surgeons. Who writes this stuff? Oh - these are peer reviewed scientific papers.

I'm proud of Liz and Amy taking control over their housing situation and taking the dog's bed. LOL! However, if S is having trouble w/her back, how is she assisting in removing the wall paper? How is she managing picking up grocery bags?

S20 needs to come get the rest of her stuff, but now w/the health crisis, she may very well not be around for quite some time.

Andrew, I would seriously rethink that April 9th trip and reschedule it for much later in the month, if not May. This virus is going to be around for quite some time and you do not want to get it, nor should S or any other people that you both come in contact with.

Please take care and stay safe.

I think you are going to have to practice some tough love with 20S. She�s not going to willing come get the stuff and for her to be perturbed about what you did with her stuff in YOUR house is asinine.

I agree with job, think about postponing your trip. It sounds like y�all have plenty going on with all the moving, redecorating stuff going in and you can do that while practicing self quarantine and social distancing. Take care of yourself and your little family.

Thanks all. Playing it by ear here. I went "in to town" at lunch to pick up a couple of essentials (construction adhesive). I was pleased to see the staff at the hardware store all wearing plastic gloves. At WalMart not quite so. My next door neighbour who is an older lady who checked me out didn't look like she's feeling well. I used my bottle of hand sanitizer at the car. I have a stash of such things it seems from years ago when they were handed out when we would take D27 and S25 on university open houses. Never threw them out. I also found a couple of bottles of isopopyl alcohol that my ex-wife must have overlooked when she stripped the house.

Originally Posted by job

The "girls" have made it clear who is in charge. Annoying in some ways as they'll do dominance things like standing in a doorway to trap Nara on one side. Generally we are to the point of no "active" conflict which is good.

S gets spasms in her back muscles. Relics of a few bad car accidents a couple of decades ago. She has some limited mobility bending far down and can't manage heavy weights. When her back goes "out" then she can't move much at all. She's been doing better since her last episode in February and has over the course of many years as a single Mom figured out ways to get things done. She has a variety of meds that she takes to keep her functional. She has some exercises she wants to start soon to strengthen her core muscles.

20S is pretty motivated but yes - living with her grandma, her own uncertain housing means that it's going to be a while. I'll keep some pressure on her though.

S25 came down to get ready for his shift and looked like crap. After hunting around for a working thermometer his temp is while slightly high isn't too high. He has a cough and congestion and said that one of the guy he works with had a cold. He's called in sick. Hopefully it's just an everyday cold but it does look like I'll still be taking extra care and have just confirmed with the plant that I'll be staying home until after my vacation.

The get-away is still about 3 weeks away and is at an isolated inn without crowds. I do agree that this is probably something that we'll be dealing with for quite a while. We'll be prudent.

Our governor mandated all schools closed until April 20 yesterday, so I would imagine other areas will be doing similar. Not that I think Arkansas is a shining example by any means, but I just figure states are watching each other and trying to work together to be at least somewhat uniform in how they are handling things. You may not get to decide on your vacation...it may decided for you. Originally our gov had closed all schools until March 30 (Monday after spring break) and our university president had already told us we were out until April 13, but as of yesterday, all public schools and universities are closed til April 20 and all restaurants are closed except for drive through, curb side pick up. You cannot go inside any restaurant anywhere. Of course, Sparky and I live out in the country and we are not driving to town just to eat, so not a problem for us.

Day 4? 5? 38? I'm starting to lose track. I actually forgot my blood pressure meds for a full day because of the shake-up in my schedule and routine.

If our get-away gets canceled / postponed then it's no big whoop so I'm not stressing about it. I think there's a $50 deposit which is fine. We were hoping to do some wedding planning with the staff there, but we can do that remotely.

S's D25 is concerned about her own wedding in June. I hope to heavens that this is all behind us by then, but given the timeline in China and the looser social structure here perhaps not. We'll manage.

Crazy busy and crazy crazy with work right now. So many of our staff just aren't "getting it" that they need to stay home if they can. They all feel that they are indispensable and their procedures unchangeable. This morning there were a dozen emails, escalated up to the company president about one clerk's belief that she absolutely had to put an "X" on a copy of a bill of lading in person and hand it to the guys in the plant. The argument is still continuing I believe with the guys in the plant saying "we're fine without that".

One email exchange escalated to ALL CAPS and I had to get the people together on a conference call (one was still wearing pajamas at 11:30 - but who am I to judge) where in 90 seconds we sorted it out and everyone was smiling at the end.

Serious things to figure out. We have parts for our new generator due in from Italy and China. Engineering staff are going to stage their various tests and suchlike so that they aren't on site at the same time. AND we still have day to day operations to go through.

Le sigh. Meanwhile I'm getting calls from sales reps and one I believe actual scammer trying to get my time. I'm being polite but man-o-man can I use a break.

It was very very weird last night. S made us dinner for S13 and I - invited S25 who wasn't interested. A nice well-balanced meal with healthy choices. I did up the dishes later but then still had available time to do a bit in the workshop and then sit with S and read my book (EE Smith's Masters of Space). I could get used to this. I'm not sure if she's going back to the apartment today or tomorrow morning. I could use some alone time too and she's agreed albeit I think reluctantly. It's all been a bit much in some ways. I have a feeling that she and S13 will be back in for all of next week too and perhaps this will be their base with S17 still uncertain on when he'll be starting to spend more time here. I'm planning on making a pie on Sunday (non-gluten free crust) and having wine with dinner so just S25 and I for that is the plan. S25 still hasn't figured out how to cancel the "wine of the month" plan that he signed up for as a gift for me for Christmas 2018 and the bottles are piling up in his room.

S25 seemed to be feeling much better by the end of the day. He took it easy and napped with "the girls" for much of the day which all thought was good.

I've been spending too much time listening to the news and following on social media. Far far far too many people aren't taking this seriously enough in my opinion. It's great though how many younger people "are". I will have to do some grocery shopping this weekend and while it may look odd, will probably wear some latex gloves that I have down in the workshop and get in and out with that and my flowers if the shop is open. I'll skip the bank as everyone is preferring that we not use cash right now.

Well - I have another conference call at 1:00 and have to prep.

In the immortal words of Sergeant Phil Esterhaus - "Let's be careful out there".

Taking a break from housework to muse.

S went back to her apartment late yesterday afternoon. I drank some beer, did a few loads of laundry, cleaned the kitchen, watched a movie (Darkest Hour) while doing so. S is undoubtedly still bothered by the fact that on Friday nights, looking from the outside, that I stay up late and watch a movie. Something she would like me to do with her. I think though that she's "getting it" that the reason I have been staying up late on Friday nights has been to get stuff done and that the movie watching is just co-incidental as it fills the time while the laundry goes. I used to do those loads on Saturdays but needed to make time on Saturdays for "her".

Still have at least 2 more loads of laundry to do today. Since I only traveled one day last week, I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to iron that one shirt. The current plan is to stay "home" essentially through to Easter. I have a large ham roast in the freezer and am planning on hosting Easter dinner here. One small duck wouldn't do the estimated 10 people that would be coming assuming that S25 "and" all of S's crew show up. It's been a very long time since that many have been here which would have been when we last hosted Christmas for my ex-wife's family and they actually showed up.

I did go in to "town" to pick up my roses, go to the butcher and grocery store. I also filled up the car and since it was cheap and to support a local business, also went through the car wash. My wee blue car (still nameless) is now shiny again.

FSL has sadly been laid off from the flower shop and the owner is running it on her own. Her S(8?) is home and there's no day-care so she would have had difficulty working anyway. The grocery store and even the liquor store were pretty empty. Lots of toilet paper available though

I still don't understand that. I expect that in a week or so that stores will be stocked up again. Lots of people are out of work and many of the shops in my little village are closed. The convenience store and presumably the one in the next village over where my ex works are operating under reduced hours. They also have toilet paper. I was slightly annoyed but found it perfectly reasonable when the teller at the grocery store told me that I could only have 2 of an item that I picked 3 up of. Business are stepping up. Many clerks are wearing gloves and sanitizing those. They are also wiping down counters and debit terminals after each customer. Still - many many tales of people not taking this seriously. Most of those who aren't or who are suspected of hoarding are being subjected to public shaming. Sad in some ways, but hopefully an effective measure.

I had a talk with S25 last night about changes that I will be making to my powers of attorney and will. Essentially S would get the house and one of my three insurance policies. The powers of attorney will be changed from my 2 brothers to S and my youngest brother. S25 seemed quite comfortable with those changes. I do need to contact my lawyer within the next month to get the ball rolling on the pre-nup. S has I believe all of her numbers needed as she had to look them up for her divorce. I need to call D27 sometime in the next few days to have a "visit" and catch up and to let her know what my thoughts are and get her opinion. It's weird in some ways. S has a very different attitude than I do about some things especially around the kids's opinions. She was I think rather put out when I told her that if either of my kids objected to me dating her and could explain why that I wouldn't have dated her. I can't help but think that perhaps some of her past poor choices might not have been made if she listened to her own kids. They certainly have a poor opinion of her STBX and from what I gather had that opinion from the beginning. And they were right. Each family I suppose is different and as a single Mom perhaps she found it more effective to go with the "one Mom, one vote" system.

Ah well. Time to stop lolly-gagging and get to the cleaning. I also need to re-arrange the freezer and get one of the small pork loin roasts out for Sunday. Dinner will include garlic bread, rhubarb pie and wine as it will be just S25 and I. I may get in to trouble from S as she had said that she might use the rhubarb but it's been a few weeks since she said that, nothing's happened, the new rhubarb should be popping up soon AND most importantly I want to make a pie.

Day 6. My cat Amy is laying on the desk next to me in the sunshine. I think she likes having "Grandpa" home all the time. S25 is feeling much better. He's annoyed at missing 2 days of pay I'm sure.

I'm finding myself getting far too obsessed with the news cycle. Although I generally avoid politics here I am a keen follower. I'm pleased with how our political leaders here in Canada seem to be dealing with things. Generally in a calm, rational fashion and with the known facts given. The recent program to repatriate Canadians who have been stranded overseas is being done with an upfront comment that some people just won't make it back home. I am worried about the US. Every time I hear the US president talk, he strikes me as more and more becoming an confused old man who is overwhelmed by the events that have overtaken him. I hope that I'm wrong and that the various agencies etc will do their best to keep people safe and more importantly that people work hard on keeping themselves and their neighbours safe. This applies to the entire planet of course. We as individuals need to take ownership of each doing our part to keep ourselves and those around us safe in this time unlike any that has been faced since perhaps 1918 when the world was much bigger and moved much more slowly.

I've been thinking of people like S and others who take part in the "shadow economy" and also the homeless. In my rural area there are a lot of people who do casual work, in many cases "off book". Even here too, there are homeless. Generally few people sleep rough but are in precarious and temporary housing. The cracks in our social safety net will become much more obvious these days as many of the programs being made available just don't apply to these people who perhaps need it most. I've read on other forums where people are now stuck inside with a cheating or abusive spouse. I wish that I had a "make it all better" stick and could just make it all go away. I don't. I support a number of charities already including the Salvation Army. I may increase my support in the short term and target it more. My costs are certainly way down with the car spending most of it's time in the garage.

I am very fortunate that I can work from home and be nearly as effective as I would be on site. I have few worries about the stability of the family owned company I work for or my own job security which has improved in recent months.

But I'm still scared and worried. I couldn't sleep well last night and responded to a message that S had sent me after I went to bed. That got me a query asking why I was "up". I responded with the typical reason why a middle-aged guy gets up in the night. S didn't sleep at all the night before last she said. I hope she got some sleep last night. I ended up getting a fairly decent sleep eventually but expect that this may become more common.

I am worried about some of the people I care about but who I've lost touch with. B., my ex-wife, FSL for example. A lot of people have underlying health conditions like B. I am still in touch with CL who is going stir crazy with her kids. A lot of rather elaborate baking is going on there and she has discovered something called unicorn spit that makes her martini sparkly.

I'm figuring that this will be a while. My own plan is to stay pretty isolated until Easter which is pretty much apropos. My get-away may or may not happen. Certainly no crowds at that inn. Limiting my shopping.

Well - time to face this particular day. And then the next one. I'll put a small pork roast in for S25 and I for dinner tonight. The plan is for that, garlic bread, potatoes and rhubarb pie.

Stay safe all.

Just finished Sunday Supper with S25. The pie was a bit damp but still tasty but everything else turned out - in my rather biased opinion - rather well.

It just struck me though and I wanted to capture it here - how Absent his mother was. This is the woman that gave birth to him, nursed him, cared for him for at least 18 years of his life, who was far closer to him than I ever was. I am very much a Single Dad.

We are going through some rather difficult times to say the least. She lives as of last report about 10 minutes away. I really can't comprehend how she's not working hard to be an active part of his life right now. Perhaps there is some contact that I'm not privy to.

My mind just boggles. I'll continue to hold everything together. I checked on D27 today and she's doing ok in San Diego and following the Navy's guidelines about social distancing. She is undoubtedly scared too. This is where I really really could use the other parent. S isn't that person. She's not "Mom" here any more than I'm Dad for her kids. Although in some ways at least for S13 I seem to be filling that role.

It's been so long and so much water has passed that I know that my ex just "isn't there" even for her own children.

I really really just don't understand and probably never will.

Just venting and wishing that the world was different than it actually is.

Time for several loads of dishes.

What makes you think she�s not there for him?

Honestly, Andrew, I think there is some contact you aren�t privvy too. He�s a 25 year old man who probably has phone calls with his mom that he doesn�t need to share when he makes them. I bet he�s in contact. But they shouldn�t be around each other right now. He�s a man now and I imagine is doing his thing.

I highly suggest you limit the traffic in and out of your house likewise. S�s kids and significant others should not be coming in and out. They need to stay home. S13 is going to have to use really good hygiene. It�s really really important .

Originally Posted by Ginger1

You're absolutely right. I don't know what's going on. I am operating as if there is no second parent because of that lack of knowledge. I do though actually believe that neither kid hears much from her which is consistent with how she was even before bomb-day.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

I highly suggest you limit the traffic in and out of your house likewise. S�s kids and significant others should not be coming in and out. They need to stay home. S13 is going to have to use really good hygiene. It�s really really important .

S25 is probably going to work at the warehouse today. He's and the company he works for are pretty diligent. Ice cream is I suppose an essential service. He's not been anywhere other than work which is pretty normal for him.

I'll ask S if she and her boys have been doing good on the social distancing. I'm expecting her over after lunchtime. I know that she's taking this all seriously. The boys' dad is a massive germaphobe and has instilled a lot of that fear in them so we're probably ok. Worth asking the question though.

Day 7

Depressed. Fairly badly too. It was a real struggle to get out of bed this morning. Feeling rather overwhelmed by everything. Hiding under the covers isn't perhaps the right answer but has it's appeal. A number of things going on at work as procedures get restructured and people aren't very patient about anyone else's priorities.

It's snowing gently here right now. Looks rather pretty. Getting outside and taking a walk through the park at lunch may help. The streets are pretty empty compared to normal. It's doubtful that anyone will be within 6' of me there.

I'm worried that as this stretches on that it will get worse. Going to have to work up some better coping strategies. And perhaps spend less time listening to the news.

yes shut off the news. give yourself permission to look once a day, for short periods.

meditate.

I don't care if you don't have a practice. Now's a good time to start one. I am forever FOREVER grateful to Roist on the MLC board for the excel life loving kindness google suggestion. Try it.

limit social media.

Look at your feet. That's where you are. Today is all you have. What can you do today to make your life and the lives of others better? BTW folks reading along - one simple answer is to stay at home!

Make a list of projects you've been putting off around the house. Now's a good time to work on those.

Don't overthink. It's bad for your health.

{{{{Andrew}}}}

ha! freudian slip? Heart should have read 'health'

Day 8. The cats continue to be happy about the new status quo.

I went outside yesterday to go for a solo walk in the park at lunch. There was a single set of footprints in the snow from someone who was out there perhaps an hour earlier. Foolishly I went out to pick up the mail and some beer at the brewery a couple of blocks away. Very frightened people out there. One of them was one of my ex-wife's besties who looked pretty rough and was joking that she's checked to make sure that she has enough wine. At the brewery, which is owned by a Welsh couple who have had health issues for quite some time, the owner put on a mask (which he's obviously re-using) and gloves before serving me. Everything was sprayed before and after I used it and he followed me out the door wiping down the handles.

I believe that the convenience store across the street will be closing. The owners are another older couple and I know that the woman is pretty stressed about things. Mail pickup will be moved to the postal depot the next town over. I do worry because a number of people in the village don't drive and this was their sole source of groceries.

I shouldn't have been out around people even to the extent that I was. Going to try harder. I'm well provisioned although starting to run low on tea and milk. I was musing this morning about some things that I need to get for some projects including the rabbit hutch and that a quick run in to the hardware store was called for. IT'S NOT. I can find other projects and can adapt the rather large amount of this and that which is around already for the hutch.

We have an official state of emergency starting at the end of the day today. I don't think that people are taking it seriously enough yet. And can perhaps put myself into that camp. I just called out a guy I went to high-school with that owns a home-brew store that he has said will stay open as an "essential service". Ah well - I thought he was a bit of a jerk back in high school. Unsurprisingly he was indignant but perhaps it's made people think more. I'm a huge believer in "see something" - say something - do something.

The list of "essential services" is perhaps too big. It certainly will be interpreted too broadly. I just had a call from a colleague who is also self-isolating with his wife and 3 young boys and he mused that given the guidelines from the government that more people will be working after the "closures" than before.

I'm so very very fortunate especially compared to some. For example, of both of the convenience stores owned by my neighbours close then my ex-wife will be out of work and she and OM will be isolated together in their house. Now "that" would be some punishment

Still feeling massively stressed and somewhat depressed. S stayed at her apartment yesterday and so I got to bed early at around 9 and slept for about 10 hours. That helped. It's almost an echo of how I felt after bomb-day. Just so very very surreal. Like then, everything "looks" normal but it isn't. I did learn though that I would get through that and I did. This is by comparison an - ahem - walk in the park.

My oldest sister who is a widow living in Montreal has some various health issues that put her at huge risk for Covid 19. Fortunately despite not having family close by, she has a very strong support network. She was struggling with a variety of physical and emotional issues before and this is undoubtedly much much worse.

Kind of makes me put my worries about what I'm going to do during my upcoming vacation into perspective. I asked S if she and the boys have been following good social distancing. She said that S13 is going a bit stir crazy and may end up going to his Dad's who is also working from home and is even less social than I am. The science fairs which were the reason for my vacation have been canceled. The get-away to the inn for S and I in 3 weeks probably will be.

One of the local grocery stores is offering to take orders by email. They'll box it up and put it in the trunk and charge by credit card. No interaction at all. Even though I really enjoy grocery shopping, I may well do that for the necessaries perhaps. And support a creative local business.

In other news, I contacted my lawyer yesterday about getting the paperwork started for the pre-nup. I figure that the bulk of that can be done without direct contact. I've been using this lawyer for 30+ years and so they are familiar with me and my circumstances and have all the relevant documents they may need to consult in their files already.

Andrew, All this is hard, I know. I don't have much to offer on your sitch, but I will say to keep focusing on you. It seems like life in your town is definitely tightening. It's hard to stay positive and focused when we are all trapped. Being busy by nature and then not having much to actually do, well that can drive us all a little bonkers.

I am trying to look for things to read and watch and ways to connect throughout this whole thing. I hope your kids and you stay safe-- mentally and physically. Blessings!

Thanks for stopping by Believe6. As a self-described fixer and worrier, these are difficult times indeed. I know that my son is fine as I see him. I expect that my daughter is struggling a bit. I should give her a call soon.

Day 9.

The sunrise this morning is pretty. So is the woman that's sleeping in my bed. She's not a morning person.

S came by yesterday around dinner (stir fry with my first success at making rice). She'd dropped S13 off with his Dad the previous day who is a germaphobe and is isolating himself / working from home at the cottage he's renting on Lake Huron. S13 will have lots of beach to roam plus more importantly to him, WiFi. I confirmed with her that she has been being very careful about being out. Going to have to trust on all that. S17 is staying with the critters in the apartment and is on-call to the grocery store he works at as there is uncertainty about when trucks come in to be unloaded. He's not in a public facing role there.

I went for a nice walk after work yesterday around the village. My gout has been acting up in the last month or so - nothing so serious as last year, but still twinges. I also have some pain in my other hip that perhaps is related to a pinched nerve. D27 has sciatica and this has similar symptoms. Undoubtedly walking is the best thing for everything.

There were a few people out and about. We all kept our distance from each other but waved cheerily. Despite being a card-carrying introvert I'm pretty social and enjoy chatting with people. I miss those interactions.

More things are shut down with some staying open. The flower shop isn't accepting walk-in customers any more and the general store / post office across the street is also closed. I was surprised to notice a big house being built at the edge of the village that I'd not noticed before. Full crew of construction guys on it. Sigh. Believing themselves to be critical I suppose.

A good variety of people are still being idiots. Well meaning ones perhaps but still. The same person who was offended when I suggested his home-brew store close has also been posting that he would be happy to drive around and do shopping for people. Sheesh! One person going to 20 different places (I'm exaggerating) and then stopping by people who are shut in doesn't help in my opinion.

-------------------------

Coming up on a big date. S will be giving her 2 months notice on her apartment on April 1st. A point of no return for her moving in sometime in May. We're both looking forward to it although I think that I'm more worried about it than she is. After it going badly with B last summer I have a level of paranoia about everything going sideways when the expectations during dating don't match the reality of co-habitating. There's really no way to avoid this either. Her spending so much time here though is easing us into it. I certainly did miss having her around for the past few days.

20S won't be coming for her stuff any time soon. She has asthma and lives with her Gran. If I can get a stretch of a few days I'll put the furniture I can dispose of on the curb with a "free" sign on it. With such reduced traffic, no clue if anyone will see it. I'll shuffle things around and it will all be fine.

S25 was telling me yesterday about the measures being taken at his warehouse where they are still shipping ice-cream. Everyone has their temperature taken and is checked by a nurse before they start their shift.

This morning I bought a digital copy of "The Faceless Old Woman Who Secretly Lives In Your House" which had it's book launch tour canceled. Normally I would have waited for a while and checked to see if it would come in to my local library. A lot of creative people are undoubtedly hurting right now. My one sister in law who has a business doing retreats etc keeps posting to her "community" of the empty place. The current in-thing is "sound bathing" so she's been doing broadcasts of that. I'm thinking of my upcoming vacation and how I'll keep busy. I have a lot of things to do around the house. A massive to be read pile. Hopefully the weather will be conducive to me going to some nature areas locally. Some of the bigger things like shopping trips etc are off the table.

Originally I thought that this would all be over with in a couple of weeks with minimal disturbance. It looks like it's going to be a lot longer. I am worried about people that I care about including those who I'm not in contact with like my ex-wife and the woman I dated last summer and her family, especially her elderly mother. I'm worried about me too. Just like when my marriage fell apart though, there's not a darned thing I can do to change the outcome, which is perhaps why I'm here exploring my feelings. What is going on with others is very much outside my control. I can control myself. I can work to help keep those close to me safe. I can reach out to those farther away (except my ex and B) to let them know that they're not alone.

Just like bomb-day too - even though we all saw this coming from late last year, when it hit - it was still a shock. Things like the Stockdate Paradox still apply. Believing in myself. Trusting that I "will" get through this even if I'm unclear on how or when.

Well - work needs to be done. The plant just emailed me confused about how to identify which loads were complete and which were in progress. Blargh.

Day 10

All local municipal trails are now closed. Wise choice but still annoying. It's almost as if I can feel the "walls" closing in around me. There are other places to walk and I can go out to "the farm" and wander around there. S and I probably will after pre-warning my brother's family that we'll be around and making sure the coast is clear.

I feel bad for those who have fewer options than I.

Pretty much everything that had been planned for my vacation is now cancelled other than some working around home. The inn we had reservations at on April 9th has canceled. It is looking doubtful that I will be feeding the large crowd I was planning on for Easter.

The depression is very real. I feel tired all the time now and am withdrawing into myself more. S I think doesn't know how to deal with it but has been a source of calm in my life. I'm obsessing less about the news cycle. D27 along with other friends have told me that they've disconnected from that after I sent them something I thought they would find of interest. Having less people to share with decreases my over-analyzing.

A difference between now and the depression I felt after bomb-day is the feeling of being "trapped". I had similar feelings then but was able to carry on a superficially normal life and had good friends who provided me practical support.

I'm so much more capable when faced with a tangible issue that I can affect. Passivity, even when it is the right course of action is difficult for me..

S and I did sit down and watch "The Rescuers" last night and spent some time together just reading. It was nice. I think she was concerned that I was obviously confused about what to make for dinner. We ended up with soup and sandwiches as she suggested. Not being used to cooking a full meal daily I think is only part of that.

I think that the hardest part of this, is like when I was struggling to save my marriage that there was no visible "end point". A time that I can look to definitively to say that things will be back to normal.

I'm grateful that I have S staying with me right now. I have no clue how long she's here for. She said that her S17 was asking yesterday if she could drive by and get him some junk food - she said no.

Some household challenges. S's dog made a fuss in the middle of the night and [censored] on the living room carpet. The cats were then blocking her at the doorway. I asked S if we could work together on getting the dog more accustomed to going outside and to using the inside pads in the bathroom. The dog if I think "very" happy here other than the cats. The less dominant one, Liz will lurk menacingly just at the edge of any doorway leading into a room the dog is in. And has also delivered random smacks to the dog just for existing. They used to do this to my ex-wife's Pomeranian as well. I've had stern talks to "the girls" but to little apparent effect.

We're down to one more day's worth of milk. Tea supplies are low too. Given that I don't drink around S, there's lots of beer in the fridge. I'm accumulating the grocery list. I may go in to "town" tomorrow and pick up food. Some local stores are offering a carry out service including the hardware store. I may look in to that. Despite the real cabin fever I am facing, I don't want to go out. But if I do, I want to try to get as much done in one trip as I can.

Both the convenience stores owned by my neighbours including the one my ex-wife works at are closed indefinately. No mail delivery any more either. I do think that more slowly than it should be, that people are indeed "getting it". But a sufficient number aren't that will make this drag out. Oddly I have no fears about getting sick myself despite having some underlying health issues, nor about my financial stability.

Not sure how long S is planning on staying. She's actually showing no signs of leaving and with one of her boys with his dad and the other being capable of being independent she may be here for a few days more before taking a turn at the apartment.

Well - back to things. I suppose I should put pants on given that it's now noon.

Day 11

Had a difficult conversation with S yesterday. I probably could have handled it better but it is what it is.

She's been here pretty much all week which in many ways is nice. I suggested that she spend a few days at her apartment so that I could have some "alone time" and got a blank angry look of the "you're throwing me out" and "you've lied about loving me" sort. She chose to interpret it as that I want to drink beer which I can't do around her because of her severe allergy. She made a big production about talking about now needing to take a bunch of stuff that she's moved in - craft supplies and such - back to her apartment. Sheesh - it's just more or less for a couple of days and I am confident that she's not used those supplies for quite some time. <grumble>

She then complained about wanting to spend time with me when I wasn't working. I pointed out to her that starting next Wednesday I'm on vacation for more than a week and that seemed to give her a bit of a reality check.

The reality from my point of view is that we have talked about her moving in after S25 moves out towards the end of May. She's more or less been here at every opportunity when I'm here since the New Year. Since we started dating, the entire weekend plus when I worked from home, we have been together. And she's either here or wanting me at her apartment at other times.

She complained to me once about an ex-boyfriend who would hang around her apartment feeling sad for himself and then when the kids went to bed would demand all of her attention when she was exhausted and just wanted to rest. I can sympathize

Ah well - I do love her and do like having her around. Like through the entire relationship though, she is moving aggressively to get what she wants. I need to make sure to be able to carve out "me' time both now and as time moves on.

-------------

In other news, I did decide to go out yesterday and pick up some necessaries and not quite as necessary. Oh my - like emerging from seclusion into a dystopian world. Some people are carrying on as if they don't have a care in the world, others are in full panic mode. I have a few pairs of old latex gloves in the workshop that absolutely aren't able to be used for medical purposes. Mice made a nest in their box a few years back. But good enough. I wore them when I went in to the grocery store and took them off and disposed of them before starting the car. The only customer so equipped. I got a few looks but "whatevs". I picked up the milk that we were almost out of plus a few other supplies. Some turnip and squash that can be on standby for making a nice dinner. S had gone to her apartment for a short while and had me pick up some things for her S17. The cashier who checked me out wasn't wearing a mask or gloves but the one working express - a lady my age who had once suggested that I meet up with her at the local singles dance - was and was arguing with a customer who was trying to buy a case of soup. Limit 2 of anything to a customer.

I went to the hardware store, picked up a sack of plaster and did a contactless purchase. There, the nervous looking young lady at cash was behind a substantial plexiglass barrier and seemed happy that I wasn't using cash and that I didn't want my receipt.

The beer store was scary. They had erected a barrier about 7 feet from the cash with warning signs and marker tape. Their systems had been hacked and all debit / credit card purchases were not able to be done so it was cash only. The clerk had a cardboard box on a string that I put my money in, she pulled it back, made change and pushed it back out. She was wearing a mask and gloves and looked and sounded terrified.

I felt rather guilty about going out as I did and will work even harder to limit it. While after the number of days that I've been in isolation would make me think that I am in no way contagious personally, it's easy to become a vector of transmission from one place to another. One of several reasons why online ordering has no appeal to me.

Well - back to it. I have quite a bit to try to get done before my vacation starts next Wednesday. I expect that S will be here until evening. She had said that she was going to make up a nice roast of beef for dinner tonight and bring S17 over but changed her mind last night saying that with S17's uncertain work schedule that she didn't know if he'd be able to come. Sad as she has turned out to be a rather good cook even if normally it seems that she isn't keen on it which is perhaps why I have been doing the bulk of the cooking. I think in recent years that she and the kids have eaten a lot of pre-packaged foods. A sad state of the world where that is cheaper and more available for low income people than healthy foods made with fresh ingredients. I prefer to make things from scratch and enjoy doing it. On the other hand, I've only been doing that for a bit over 4 years regularly and not over 25 with a very critical audience none of whom like the same things.

I'm confident that she's unhappy about going back to her apartment and probably not able to understand my reasons. She has never been alone in any fashion ever in her life. Moved from her parent's place in with room-mates in University, got married, had kids and except for the odd weekend when they've all been with their Dads for a day or so hasn't known what it's like to just have "space". We need to work on this - not sure how especially when we become even more of a couple. In my former marriage I often had time for "just me" as did my ex.

Well - nose to the grindstone time. Stay safe out there my friends. Please.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Day 11

Like through the entire relationship though, she is moving aggressively to get what she wants. I need to make sure to be able to carve out "me' time both now and as time moves on.

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Andrew,

I know you don�t appreciate any more input from me, but as I�ve invested the best part of four years reading your sitch and genuinely �have your back� will say this.

You were warned and the words �no s#it Sherlock� spring to mind.

Keep safe.

Andrew,

I do understand the wanting of "me" time and right now you can have that when S returns to her place. What or how are you going to carve out that "me" time when S and her family and pets move in? It's going to be difficult unless you sit her down and have a nice chat about what "me" time consists of for you.

As for going out to get items from the stores, it's been very interesting here. I went out Tuesday to pick up some things for my mother, who is 86. It was the designated time for the seniors to be in the store and I couldn't believe how they were just standing around the meat counter talking as if it were a normal day. Here I was gloved up and staying 6 ft back and finally, I had to call out and remind them that they needed to be 6 feet apart and get the heck away from the meat counter if they were just going to socialize. It finally dawned on them that the line was back up for people wanting to pick up some meat products and that they and their carts were blocking the entire area. Like you, some are just has happy as pigs in mud socializing and not taking this seriously and others are way over into the panic mode.

Finally, the Governor of MD has announced that day cares are to be closed effective this evening. In my opinion, everything but the grocery stores, banks and drug stores should have been shut down two weeks ago, instead of one by one shutting down of businesses. My county now has 5 cases, but areas around DC have many more into the hundreds. It's a scary time, but we all need to listen and follow the steps in order to stay healthy and safe. We are losing entirely too many people all around the world before their time.

Andrew, S will get over her little snit...but it's good that you are standing up for yourself just a wee bit. As for your son moving out in May...do you think he'll still do it if this virus continues to be on a roll? I would think it would be better for him to remain right where he is for the time being. I do not think this virus will be out of here by May...more like the June time frame possibly.

Please take care of yourself and stay safe. I worry about you because of the comings and goings of S and her family in your home.

Originally Posted by Westo

You were warned and the words �no s#it Sherlock� spring to mind.

Keep safe.

LOL. Thanks ((Westo))

Originally Posted by job

I'm going to have to work on that and I still haven't figured out how. And it's better done earlier rather than later. I need to first get a clearer vision in my mind on what that means to me. This enforced isolation / coupling is distorting things so very much from any sort of normal.

Originally Posted by job

Andrew, S will get over her little snit...but it's good that you are standing up for yourself just a wee bit. As for your son moving out in May...do you think he'll still do it if this virus continues to be on a roll? I would think it would be better for him to remain right where he is for the time being. I do not think this virus will be out of here by May...more like the June time frame possibly.

Please take care of yourself and stay safe. I worry about you because of the comings and goings of S and her family in your home.

Thanks job. I do need to have another talk with S25 this weekend and make sure that he's ok with things proceeding according to plan. Even though it would upset S, if he's not confident then we stretch it out by another month even if that will cost S her not inconsiderable rent payment. There are so very many unknowns that "could" jump up and bit us. I am confident that none of them are insurmountable and if S moves in before S25 moves out that we would all adapt. I joke to myself that perhaps he could move in with his mother and OM on an interim basis but as I've mentioned before, I absolutely cannot look to her for any sort of cooperation and I am confident that S25 hasn't even considered that as a possibility himself and it would open a very very large can of doo-doo (can I say that here?

) if I broached the subject.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

She chose to interpret it as that I want to drink beer which I can't do around her because of her severe allergy.

I�ll admit I�m �only� a paramedic, and not even licensed anymore, but I have had more education (initial and continued) than many might assume, plus 25 years of experience. I�ve never heard of anyone having such a severe allergy that if someone else consumes the substance - they have the reaction. Perhaps if you were to kiss her? I could see that. But in general, I have to call BS on this. Perhaps KML can comment? Just seems very convenient for anyone who may not want someone else to engage in a behavior to claim they are highly allergic to said behavior and boom, issue trumped. I certainly hope she carries an epi pen if she is so highly allergic. Something just makes me highly question this. Perhaps a controlled test? Does she go into bars, restaurants, or other people�s homes where beer is being consumed? If so, testing the same with you seems reasonable.

But again, I�m not an allergist - but I have treated many, many allergic reactions - both anaphylactic and not. I do t have the defacto answer - I just raise the question.

Good point Don. I�m sure she�s been in a restaurant or at an event where alcohol is served..... she hasn�t been able to avoid its presence her whole life. Yes, she can have a reaction if she kisses you if it truly that severe. But not in a house with it. Maybe she just can�t kiss you....

Holy $hit Andy I can�t think of bigger deal breaker for me then her being allergic to beer. Thank the lord I have never heard of that before.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

I�m sure she�s been in a restaurant or at an event where alcohol is served..... she hasn�t been able to avoid its presence her whole life. Yes, she can have a reaction if she kisses you if it truly that severe. But not in a house with it. Maybe she just can�t kiss you....

I can drink all I want but the smooching is off the table until it is out of my respiration. If we are out and someone is drinking hard liquor she has to go to the other side of the table. If I have more than 2 drinks in an evening then that means that one of us would be sleeping elsewhere.

It is a legit thing - she had a pretty extreme reaction when I made a loaf of beer bread a while ago and had to leave after dosing up with antihistamines. We'd talked before I started cooking and she thought that one can of beer cooking 2 rooms away shouldn't be a problem it was.

It hit her in her late teens and has gotten progressively worse over the years. Sad because she quite enjoys the taste of wine, beer and some mixed drinks. We've been searching for a zero alcohol wine that doesn't taste like swamp mud.

Again, not an allergist but I�ve heard of people having allergy to the yeast or the hops - though only if THEY consume the beer - not someone else.

I have also heard of sexually-relayed cases of latex allergy and one woman with a sulfa allergy who had a reaction following sex with her husband who was on a sulfa drug at the time. Was that TMI?

Actually Don I have a patient who is so allergic to coffee that during shelter in place, her husband (who usually has to go to Starbucks to drink his coffee ) is brewing his coffee in a Keurig in the back yard and and drinking it in the garage and it is STILL causing her symptoms!

Andrew find a good description of introverts and extroverts - maybe from the book Raising Your Spirited Child, which has an excellent chapter on this. It really has nothing to do with shyness (although many introverts are shy) and has everything to do with how you recharge. Extroverts recharge by being with others and find it draining to be alone; introverts find it draining to be with others and need to recharge by being alone.

Now - she may be an extrovert or she may just be pathologically insecure. Perhaps if you explain the introvert/extrovert thing to her she will stop taking it personally. You will definitely have to figure out how to carve out alone time once you�re living together

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I'm confident that she's unhappy about going back to her apartment and probably not able to understand my reasons. She has never been alone in any fashion ever in her life. Moved from her parent's place in with room-mates in University, got married, had kids and except for the odd weekend when they've all been with their Dads for a day or so hasn't known what it's like to just have "space". We need to work on this - not sure how especially when we become even more of a couple. In my former marriage I often had time for "just me" as did my ex.

How is it possible to have never been alone in any fashion, ever? Maybe being an only child colors my view on this, but man ... that's a huge red flag for me. again, for me, not necessarily anyone else. In my view, if one cannot be comfortable alone how can one truly be with someone else without it being co-dependent? One of the things I valued in my marriage was that each of us had a sense of personal freedom, so that if either of us needed some alone time, we voiced it, neither took it personally. If I wasn't feeling like I needed alone time but exh was, I would usually look at it as an opportunity to do stuff on my own. Again, probably being an only child helps with this. Certainly having a mother who smothered me makes me hyper sensitive to someone who is too clingy. Again, Andrew, I'm not in this relationship, so if it works for you, great. I'm hearing that it's not so much, though. I think maybe phrasing something like, this isn't about you. this isn't about your needs, this is about mine, and I need a certain amount of alone time to re-group. I can't remember if you guys are in counseling or not. If yes, this is something to definitely consider bringing up there.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

You know, this bugs me, the moving aggressively to get what she wants. Does this cause any other eyebrows to raise? I think - if I remember dating correctly - people are on their best behavior in the early days, and you are still in the early days. What's this going to be like in a year? 5? 10?

Originally Posted by kml

It would be very interesting to test against a placebo. Just the skeptic in me perhaps but the mind is a very powerful thing.

I�m with you, bttrfly. How can someone of a certain age be that uncomfortable being alone? I don�t think it is just you and having been an only child. I have 2 siblings but there is a big age gap and I like my alone time immensely. I love my husband, don�t get me wrong, but the best part of our life right now is that he gets up and goes to work and I get to work from home every day. LOVE that alone time!

And yes, Andrew�s comments about S �moving aggressively to get what she wants� raised my eyebrows. Really? I love you, Andrew, but that sounds like she is just running full steam ahead and running over you in the process whether it is what you want or not. Her not understanding your need for alone time also struck me as being pretty immature.

My XH was like that though. He did not get the need for alone time and would get his feelings hurt if I asked for it. It took several years and a LOT of very intense conversations to get him to understand it had nothing to do with him. I suspect S is like that too and it worries me for your future. And while I�m on this tangent, you�ve mentioned several times not wanting to rush S25 or make him feel pushed out but I suspect that if he can�t move out on the schedule y�all have planned because of the current situation, S won�t take it well at all. Pay attention, Andrew! She is telling you who she is!!!!!!!!!!

I knew someone who had severe allergies and carried an epi pen. The smell of peanuts caused him to feel sick. The sense of smell is very powerful and I suspect some associate it with their allergy. It could be mind related just the way sometimes if you get really sick after eating a certain food you never like it again and the smell always bothers you.

As for the relationship part, you both are still in limerence right now. You don�t know each other that well. Real life challenges such as blending families, cohabitating and pandemics can scuff up the glossiness of limerence.

Hope you continue to manage your needs and take care of you.

Thanks kml - I know myself to absolutely be an introvert although certainly not a shy one. I can be "on" in a group when necessary but it is very emotionally draining.

I think that for S that in many ways that it's insecurity. Clinging on to a rock in a storm if you will. I'm going to haul out some entrails in a moment that I'll probably regret showing.

bttrfly, Dawn and HaWho - I spent a fair amount of time editing this post while you put in your comments. I believe that while I've not addressed them directly below I think that my post will illuminate things a bit. I do agree with your comments with regards to S and I and our differing needs for "space" and the fact that we are still on "best behaviour".

-----------------------

Well - that was unexpected, but probably a good thing.

S has headed back to her apartment for an in-determinant amount of time. I had expected her to be heading back for the weekend with plans to camp out here again through much of the next few weeks. That's not her plan at least at the moment. "Of course" this was sprung on me as we were loading a surprisingly large amount of stuff into her van. Most of which had also recently arrived in the last unloading. I asked to talk in more depth and we sat in the sunshine on the bench by the door and talked. I think she was just going to say her piece and leave.

She's been worried, and been right that I have been uncomfortable with the speed that this is all happening at. She on the other hand hasn't been feeling that her and the boys moving in is as high a priority to me as it should be or feeling as much at "home" here as she wants to be and has concerns about how "all-in" I am. For many of the things she said, even though it could be thought that she was in some ways "guilt-tripping" me, she was very right. She felt that she and the things she needed were not a priority and that I am too wrapped up in "my" stuff. She did say that my words which tell her that I miss her when she's not here and that I want her to be here and for us to be a couple weren't matching my actions. That was her biggest thing. I think that my telling her that I loved her, wanted to get married and wanted her and the boys to move in meant that I was ready for it all to happen right away. Otherwise, why would it be said (?)

She commented that she felt it wasn't fair to her that after only 3 days that I needed a break and is worried about how I'll deal with her and the boys being here full time. I tried to talk about how I hadn't thought that she'd be here so much until closer to move-in date but probably botched that a bit. She said that she was tired of hauling so much stuff back and forth all the time and called me out (again) on the fact that I've only spent a couple of nights at her apartment. I'd actually wondered why there was so much stuff making the round trip but again, Expectations.

She also brought up that when she's here when I'm working that she feels that she doesn't connect to me as I'm wrapped up in work or in doing things around the house. She said she tries to do her own thing but feels ignored.

Going to regret this next bit. It is though I think a critical piece of the puzzle that I've never explicitly explored here although it has been hinted at.

As an aside, I find her apartment a fairly oppressive place. I'm struggling on how to put it into words without making excuses for her. Let me start by saying that I almost bailed when I first saw the clutter, mess and chaos that she lived in every day. I soon realized that she didn't like it either and appeared to prefer the order that exists in my house. She and her three youngest had lived there for quite some time and all have some variety or other of ADD along with her very real pain and mobility issues that limit what she can do in terms of cleaning and organizing. Activities that are often derailed by her kids. This is why I think me working on organizing and cleaning her apartment has been such a priority for her. When I do stay over there, I feel very awkward as I can't navigate around the kitchen nor just do what comes naturally and putter as it's not "my stuff". I also feel very crowded and constrained by the amount of "other people's stuff" that is everywhere. A hold-over from my marriage when I wasn't "allowed" to touch any of my then wife's "stuff". Being in an entire apartment filled with such things is difficult on me. When I'm there I feel "trapped" and certainly not in any way "at home". S does agree with me that the "energy" in the apartment isn't very good. The other bits about my discomfort there haven't been explored together other than how I felt impotent to deal with the clutter that had been in my own house. S herself I believe is very uncomfortable there and has struggled in creating her "own" space. Something she's commented on multiple times and something she keeps trying to define here.

Sigh. I've not wanted to put that last bit out there as I've been sure that it would cause a large backlash against S and more negativity on how she should be more capable than she is.

My own opinion is that she was in a very dark place prior to her contacting me last fall and it did cause me worries that she was only interested in me for my ability to rescue. While she was in that "dark place" with no obvious way out, things piled up. Literally. Loads would arrive from her STBX as he / she / they cleared out what had been left behind. XH#2 would buy and drop off random stuff for the kids. And she had all the stuff from successive forced down-sizing over the past 10 years.

Even without the rose coloured glasses though, I do firmly believe that we can live compatibility together. She has no issue at all with my wanting things organized and tidy and wants me to help her with that. She has been working as well as she can on her own space and with my help at least since we've been dating and I do notice (and make a point of remarking on) that each time that I see the apartment that significant incremental progress has been made. I'm a huge believer in noticing the positive.

This need for compatible for lack of better words "energy" is I think very important. And we do have it. When we work together on something we work far far better than I ever did with any other partner be it my ex or B. And not because one of us is primary and the other is secondary but because we each can contribute something the other lacks. Her ability to think "sideways" about an issue and to manage multiple simultaneous things strongly complements my ability to focus and drive forward.

------------

S has put the onus on me to figure out how to make this all work and on how to decide when I'll be ready. I told her that I honestly don't have any answers right now and that "we" needed to figure it out. She wants me to do the figuring.

There's lots more going on than can reasonably be explored here. I have a lot to process. We still are planning on making this all work but perhaps with not quite so tight of timelines.

I think - inappropriately putting this into the context of project management - that we are in a situation of "managing expectations" - one of the hardest parts of any project that I've ever worked on. Mine were slower than her's but my communication to her indicated that I was more ready than I actually am.

There was an amount of guilt-tripping done, mentions that I shouldn't be letting S25 dictate the speed that we move in etc and that I should be obliging him to take more ownership of his future. Issues that she has that are legit too although she has similar challenges with her own offspring.

I will walk this back a bit and suggest that some, but certainly not most of this is theater. Legitimate concerns. Looking at the underlying actions though with more stuff having been moved in just yesterday the progress is continuing. I think that the biggest thing is the deadline of April 1st when she was planning on giving notice on her apartment. A decision she made on her own without consultation with me. She's now legitimately worried that just a few weeks won't be enough for everything to be in place. And I think she's right. Putting that back on me, could be over-analyzed far too much.

I think all will be fine. I'm going to work on going at "my" own pace and hopefully we can work this out. It is at the root I think an issue of challenges with expectations and communication. We are both motivated to make this work and I certainly won't give up easily and S has a history of working hard to keep things together. I work on ignoring the practical things that I bring to the table which the cynic in me is enough of a realist to acknowledge. But that the optimist in me chooses to refuse to believe is one of her motivations. I have too much respect for her as someone who has been able to walk away from bad situations regardless of the price she did pay to believe that.

I also think that for each of us that this is uncharted territory. S's former partners were pretty much all in some fashion or other "man-babies" that "needed" her for managing day to day things. I'm independent. I don't really "need" anyone to help me with anything. I can certainly see her former partners clinging to her and as an example she has told me that at least one guy she'd dated in the past wanted her to move in with him after 2 dates. And here I am managing along just fine and not trying to "pull" her in and in fact resisting that to a degree.

As many here would probably agree - staying single can be an easy choice. But I still want the richness that S will be adding to my life.

PS - yes - I expect that there will be some strong feedback on this post. While I read, appreciate and take seriously the generally well intentioned comments being made I have learned that the more that I dig, explore and dispute, that the negativity also tends to ramp up. I am working on making a better life for myself. That involves risk. There are always a 1000 reasons to not do something as it is easier to tear down than build up. Building up doesn't mean blindly being in agreement. Building up to me means being positive and exploring how to get the best outcome given the cards we are dealt.

Sigh - enough introspection for now. Going to do a bit more work - there's a whole set of chlorates that I need to review - the joys of working from home with no end of shift bell - and then I may do some baking. I'll send S my usual good-night. I may actually wait until Monday or Tuesday before seeing her again. I have a lot of thinking to do and I need to both do it well and to also not look to her like I'm rushing back and not being true to myself.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

-----------------------

She's been worried, and been right that I have been uncomfortable with the speed that this is all happening at. She on the other hand hasn't been feeling that her and the boys moving in is as high a priority to me as it should be or feeling as much at "home" here as she wants to be and has concerns about how "all-in" I am. For many of the things she said, even though it could be thought that she was in some ways "guilt-tripping" me, she was very right. She felt that she and the things she needed were not a priority and that I am too wrapped up in "my" stuff. She did say that my words which tell her that I miss her when she's not here and that I want her to be here and for us to be a couple weren't matching my actions. That was her biggest thing. I think that my telling her that I loved her, wanted to get married and wanted her and the boys to move in meant that I was ready for it all to happen right away. Otherwise, why would it be said (?)

She commented that she felt it wasn't fair to her that after only 3 days that I needed a break and is worried about how I'll deal with her and the boys being here full time. I tried to talk about how I hadn't thought that she'd be here so much until closer to move-in date but probably botched that a bit. She said that she was tired of hauling so much stuff back and forth all the time and called me out (again) on the fact that I've only spent a couple of nights at her apartment. I'd actually wondered why there was so much stuff making the round trip but again, Expectations.

Andrew, I think nothing illustrates what I'm trying to say more than the previous two paragraphs. I think when someone "moves aggressively to get what she wants" there is always, always on the other side of that the question of is the other person really all in or just giving in. It's a conundrum for sure and I hope I've been able to clearly state the dynamic I'm referring to.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

She also brought up that when she's here when I'm working that she feels that she doesn't connect to me as I'm wrapped up in work or in doing things around the house. She said she tries to do her own thing but feels ignored.

Rather than share with you my take on this, I'd rather ask you what you think about that statement.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

As an aside, I find her apartment a fairly oppressive place. I'm struggling on how to put it into words without making excuses for her. Let me start by saying that I almost bailed when I first saw the clutter, mess and chaos that she lived in every day. I soon realized that she didn't like it either and appeared to prefer the order that exists in my house. She and her three youngest had lived there for quite some time and all have some variety or other of ADD along with her very real pain and mobility issues that limit what she can do in terms of cleaning and organizing. Activities that are often derailed by her kids. This is why I think me working on organizing and cleaning her apartment has been such a priority for her. When I do stay over there, I feel very awkward as I can't navigate around the kitchen nor just do what comes naturally and putter as it's not "my stuff". I also feel very crowded and constrained by the amount of "other people's stuff" that is everywhere. A hold-over from my marriage when I wasn't "allowed" to touch any of my then wife's "stuff". Being in an entire apartment filled with such things is difficult on me. When I'm there I feel "trapped" and certainly not in any way "at home". S does agree with me that the "energy" in the apartment isn't very good. The other bits about my discomfort there haven't been explored together other than how I felt impotent to deal with the clutter that had been in my own house. S herself I believe is very uncomfortable there and has struggled in creating her "own" space. Something she's commented on multiple times and something she keeps trying to define here.

Nope, no backlash from me. The only question I have is, where does it go from here? It's one thing to do the big purge and clean out stuff. It's another to maintain. I'm speaking as a woman who sent an 18 foot truck full of stuff off to charity. I still have about a room full of stuff to get rid of. Stuff was a huge issue in my marriage. As different relatives would die, I'd be left certain things. My husband would throw a fit. Our home was cluttered. I didn't like it, but didn't know how to tell Auntie I didn't want her prized hope chest (one example). Funny thing tho, when I cleaned everything out, there was easily as much stuff that was his (old computers, bins of files and electronics, sporting equipment, car parts, tools, etc.). Now, here I am in my house. I still haven't unpacked two rooms, mostly because there's been no real time until now. I've noticed I do not buy anything without thinking long and hard about how I'd get rid of it. That's usually enough to stop me from buying something these days. I remember you cleaning out your home, re-claiming it, little by little, until it was a place of peace and calm for you. What I'm saying is that I've had a wholesale change in my relationship to "stuff" and how I want to live, and I've done pretty much the same. Not quite 100% there yet, but pretty darn close. I think what you need to figure out is whether or not S is in the process of something similar.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

My own opinion is that she was in a very dark place prior to her contacting me last fall and it did cause me worries that she was only interested in me for my ability to rescue. While she was in that "dark place" with no obvious way out, things piled up. Literally. Loads would arrive from her STBX as he / she / they cleared out what had been left behind. XH#2 would buy and drop off random stuff for the kids. And she had all the stuff from successive forced down-sizing over the past 10 years.

Both are very real and valid points. The thing is, it's easy to distract oneself with a relationship. What's her internal process? You'd know better than I, but my real question I guess is do you think that S is introspective enough to answer that question?

Originally Posted by AndrewP

S has put the onus on me to figure out how to make this all work and on how to decide when I'll be ready. I told her that I honestly don't have any answers right now and that "we" needed to figure it out. She wants me to do the figuring.

I think you're right about both of you needing to figure it out, but I also think that she needs to stop aggressively trying to get her own way and let things develop at a pace that is more relaxed and comfortable for you.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

There's lots more going on than can reasonably be explored here. I have a lot to process. We still are planning on making this all work but perhaps with not quite so tight of timelines.

Given the current world situation, I think tight timelines are your enemy.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I think - inappropriately putting this into the context of project management - that we are in a situation of "managing expectations" - one of the hardest parts of any project that I've ever worked on. Mine were slower than her's but my communication to her indicated that I was more ready than I actually am.

Really? Feels more like scope creep to me.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

There was an amount of guilt-tripping done, mentions that I shouldn't be letting S25 dictate the speed that we move in etc and that I should be obliging him to take more ownership of his future. Issues that she has that are legit too although she has similar challenges with her own offspring.

Andrew, I don't know how you feel about that. You're going to have to really think about that a bit. I'm not involved with someone, so it's hard for me to say anything definitively, but I think if anyone said anything at all about my son in that context, it wouldn't go over well with me. A spouse/partner can be replaced. My son is irreplaceable. That's my core, and I am incredibly protective of my son right now, given what he's been dealing with, so factor that in.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I think that the biggest thing is the deadline of April 1st when she was planning on giving notice on her apartment. A decision she made on her own without consultation with me. She's now legitimately worried that just a few weeks won't be enough for everything to be in place. And I think she's right. Putting that back on me, could be over-analyzed far too much.

Again, I think this is what happens when someone pushes their wants ... they can never truly relax and believe that it's mutual, whereas a more relaxed and organic pace doesn't generally have this issue. Also, that's a pretty big decision to make unilaterally. And, I hope she's taking any move as the perfect opportunity it is to purge herself of the excess "stuff".

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I think all will be fine. I'm going to work on going at "my" own pace and hopefully we can work this out.

That's the most sensible approach.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

It is at the root I think an issue of challenges with expectations and communication.

I'd add insecurity on her part. A secure person wouldn't push her agenda so hard then feel so insecure when she got her way. This is something that time will help, I hope.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I also think that for each of us that this is uncharted territory. S's former partners were pretty much all in some fashion or other "man-babies" that "needed" her for managing day to day things. I'm independent. I don't really "need" anyone to help me with anything. I can certainly see her former partners clinging to her and as an example she has told me that at least one guy she'd dated in the past wanted her to move in with him after 2 dates. And here I am managing along just fine and not trying to "pull" her in and in fact resisting that to a degree.

As many here would probably agree - staying single can be an easy choice. But I still want the richness that S will be adding to my life.

All the more reason that I think you're doing the smart thing by loosening up the timelines a bit. I'm proud of you for taking the necessary time to really think things through. What are you going to bake?

Thanks so much bttrfly. I made Pillsbury cinnamon rolls last night. They turned out decent but were obviously from a can. I left half of them for S25 for when he got home.

What you said largely echos what is going through my head. Especially the bits around my son and the fact that this all seemed to be on her timeline and not mine.

----

I got to bed at a decent time last night - weird being by myself. Sent S a typical cheerful "good night" with a note that I was confident that all will work out. Got a loving and nice response back.

Then I slept on it.

I think that for all intents and purposes, whether intentional or not, she was giving me a bit of an ultimatum. xxxx or get of the pot as it were.

She's also given me as it were - the gift of time. I had been wanting things to slow down but "Being me" was unable to enunciate it. One of the things that I'm really really good at is being oblivious and so can fairly easily work along as if everything is fine and take her at her word that she's going to stretch things out another month.

That gives S25 time to get on his own with no additional pressure, gives me time to be more prepared for her and the boys. And gives her the time to get - as it were - her own house in order.

This is all more or less DB 101. If she wants this to work out and I am confident that she does, then we'll work together on this. Hopefully with her knowing that pressuring me isn't an effective tool. She is, I think in many ways insecure about things and I need to make sure that she can continue to be confident in my love and commitment to make things work - but without forcing it.

Well - I had to get up and address some things at work. All appears to be ticking along again so back to bed for a nice lie-in. Would be better if there was a pretty girl joining me, but she's at her apartment for the forseeable future. As it should be at this point being as we are just engaged and still in some ways need to "date" more.

Andrew -

You wanting time is really reasonable. If she really loves and respects you for who you are and not what you have to offer her, she will wait and respect you. If she can�t wait and really just wants someone that�s gonna have her move in after 2 dates, then that says a lot about her and not you. Telling her you need time could be a good test so that you could understand what her motivations are. If she is willing to end things because you need time, you know she doesn�t really love you.

You know my situation. And I would never ever pressure someone to have me move in with them. It would injure my pride and I would fear looking like an opportunist. I also wouldn�t want to put that kind of stress on my partner or relationship. I also wouldn�t want to put my son in a unstable situation unless I was positive everyone was in on this. Myself Included. I wouldn�t want to use someone. And I don�t need someone or anything bad enough to pressure them .

I think that your concerns are very valid. And you are voicing them because it helps you sort them out. I�ve been in tons of abusive relationships and I find that when I actually verbalize or try to sort things that don�t sit right with my inner voice - it typically means red flags or potentials for abuse. My inner voice knows but then the outer voice spackles (chump lady term) with things similar to your �well our differences will make this work or she�s legit to say that about my son etc�

And regarding kids... How did you feel about her voicing her opinion on your son? My last bf did that and I resented him. What concerns me, is that she was not legitimately trying to help or offer advise regarding your son. , she was using your sons issues as part of her argument and to inflict guilt. That�s not healthy.

There�s an old article in The NY Times magazine you might be able to google that talks about how the best predictors for successful relationships is knowing how to fight fair. That this is more important then compatibility. Look at how she argues with you.

Andrew,

The gift of time is what both of you need. Rushing the process will only make matters worse. I think both of you need to step back just a wee bit and just breathe. As for the April 1st date, I do not think that it is doable at this moment to give notice. Is she on a month to month rental or a full year? If it is a full year, it would still make sense for her to remain there until the end of the school year, i.e., as was discussed earlier before the health crisis took over the world. Both of you are still learning about each other, dealing w/two residences and yes the "extended family issue" comes into play.

As for her comments about your son, well, you know how I feel about your son and the cats. They were in your home first and she either needs to accept that they will be living there for a while or get over it. Right now, your son is doing well, has a job, but it's going to take some time for him to find a place to live and let's face it, businesses are shutting down and there is no telling how long the place he's working at will be deemed essential and at least living w/you, he and the cats have a home for the time being. I'm sure that when the world is "healthy" again, he will find a place to live, but until then, no one should be looking to move out.

As for purging "stuff" from years gone by, my motto has always been "if I haven't used it in a couple years, then I don't need it". Sounds like S has accumulated quite a bit of stuff over the years. Now is the time for her to be thinking about getting rid of and/or donating stuff that they haven't used or played with in the last year or so.

BTW, I do understand how you feel going into someone's home and feeling uncomfortable in cleaning/organizing stuff for them. I have the same issue. In fact, when I go into a home that is "messy", my hands start to "itch" to want to clean it up and I don't stay very long because it feelings oppressive to me to be in surroundings like that. I don't think S realizes that her residence is small and crowded and some people have issues staying over or being there for long periods of time.

I do think you've been given an eye opening chance to actually work through things w/S. Take as much time as you need to discuss things and and it shouldn't all fall on you to figure things out. In order for this relationship to survive, it will take both of you to sit down many, many times over and discuss things. Maybe this is the time to discuss those things in a session w/a therapist to better understand why she's in such a rush to do things and to also have you better understand how you are going to deal w/all of this upheaval that I see coming into play in the coming months if things aren't resolved before the actual move in. It's better that all of this came to light now, rather than later.

Originally Posted by JujuB

And regarding kids... How did you feel about her voicing her opinion on your son? My last bf did that and I resented him. What concerns me, is that she was not legitimately trying to help or offer advise regarding your son. , she was using your sons issues as part of her argument and to inflict guilt. That�s not healthy.

There�s an old article in The NY Times magazine you might be able to google that talks about how the best predictors for successful relationships is knowing how to fight fair. That this is more important then compatibility. Look at how she argues with you.

Thank JuJuB - I'll perhaps try to find that article. She does in some ways fight dirty usually using guilt as a tool. With that said, generally we do talk things out in a very collaborative manner and this is only the second time we've had something we couldn't sort out right away.

You are sharp in how her comment about S25 affected me. As all here know, I'm very protective of him. In some people's minds, too much so. But on the other hand, he went from being in a very dark place when he moved home to being a cheerful, contributing member of society with a good group of friends who is looking forward to being on his own. While we do grate with one another, I'm confident in his love and respect and that it will continue for years to come.

I believe S has a different attitude about kids where she's the Mom and she makes the decisions. She does listen to and ask for their input and is there for them if they need her but is happy when they grow their wings and leave the nest - even if their destination can be uncertain. Her D25 lived in an old mini-school bus in a commune for a while and also backpacked through Asia. Her S17 also moved out for a summer when he was 15 and in with that same sister (who I think is tired of being "mom"). When her D18 and S17 went out to British Columbia she didn't hear from them at all for days and it didn't seem to be an issue for her. When she married her STBX, her oldest son didn't get along with him and he moved out and in with his sister who was then I think 18. This I think is a big difference between us where she was surprised when I told her that if either of my kids objected to her for valid reasons that they would have the final say. She on the other hand stayed with a guy that her kids neither liked nor respected. Her leaving had more to do with the fact that the guy turned out to be a selfish controlling jerk with a gambling addiction than the fact that he wasn't a good solid person for her then 4 kids living with her.

Different people, different back stories, different dynamics. I think in many ways it's good that neither of us looks to have a parental role for the other's kids as we do it differently. I am absolutely much more of a mother hen.

Originally Posted by job

Thanks job. As I mentioned to JuJuB - my son is one of my non-negotiables.

Originally Posted by job

As for purging "stuff" from years gone by, my motto has always been "if I haven't used it in a couple years, then I don't need it". Sounds like S has accumulated quite a bit of stuff over the years. Now is the time for her to be thinking about getting rid of and/or donating stuff that they haven't used or played with in the last year or so.

BTW, I do understand how you feel going into someone's home and feeling uncomfortable in cleaning/organizing stuff for them. I have the same issue. In fact, when I go into a home that is "messy", my hands start to "itch" to want to clean it up and I don't stay very long because it feelings oppressive to me to be in surroundings like that. I don't think S realizes that her residence is small and crowded and some people have issues staying over or being there for long periods of time.

I do think you've been given an eye opening chance to actually work through things w/S. Take as much time as you need to discuss things and and it shouldn't all fall on you to figure things out. In order for this relationship to survive, it will take both of you to sit down many, many times over and discuss things. Maybe this is the time to discuss those things in a session w/a therapist to better understand why she's in such a rush to do things and to also have you better understand how you are going to deal w/all of this upheaval that I see coming into play in the coming months if things aren't resolved before the actual move in. It's better that all of this came to light now, rather than later.

kml actually suggested pre-marital counseling and I've asked S to follow up with her therapist. Sadly right now, none of that is available. Certainly on the list.

Thanks for the validation on how I feel at her apartment. I don't think she "gets" it and I think believes that I spend far too much time buzzing around cleaning this, tidying that, fixing the other thing. Something that gives me a lot of satisfaction. And that drives me batty at her apartment, especially as there are things that could be fixed and aren't. I've done some, but generally it's what she wants to be my priority on the limited time I spend there. My ex-wife used to love the fact that she had to only mention that something wasn't working and I'd drop everything and take care of it. I saw pictures of the inside of OM's house when it was up for sale - I don't think he even owns many tools - and now they're locked inside together ... bwa ha ha

S is on a month-to-month tenancy so can move out pretty much any time she likes. She has no damage deposit but wants to leave the place in decent shape which will be helped by slowing things down.

S did see my message I sent about taking another month so we can go slower and responded with a smooching emojji - so message received. She's usually more chatty. Undoubtedly she has a lot on her mind too.

Busy day here. I was wondering how I'd occupy myself but there's always something to do. I got the framing almost done for the rabbit hutch, second load of laundry is in, and did a couple of hours of office work so that a particular project is done for when my vacation starts.

I'm going to just go along as "situation normal" with S. With a good morning, occasional messages through the day and good nights. It's up to her to decide if she wants to stop by or stay over. I'm not going to push. I have a nice ham that I may cook up for Sunday - a variety I've not tried before.

All of the trails in the area and our village park are now closed reducing parts of the outdoors for me to wander in during my vacation. We'll probably ask to go for a wander through the bush at "the farm" next week on the 1st or 2nd which may well be the next time we see each other.

I do think that a big part of the challenge that we are going through was predicated by the fact that I was re positioned to work from home and S - whether intentionally or not - essentially moved in with me. As I mentioned before, we are still learning how to be a couple and need to practice and - in my opinion - not be doing it full time for a while yet. Perhaps if it hadn't been for that, we wouldn't have spent those solid days together and her expectations of timelines etc wouldn't have been so different than mine. I kept wondering each day how long she was planning to stay and she just kept staying. Certainly something difficult to object to.

Well - back to my laundry and workshop. Stay safe everyone.

Quote

the deadline of April 1st when she was planning on giving notice on her apartment. A decision she made on her own without consultation with me

I think this is where you went astray - this is where you should have spoken up and said that was too early for you.

Two other things to think about:
1) Is she extroverted, insecure, or ..... a Love Addict? Moving in with someone after two weeks is some serious Love Addict behavior. Love Addicts thrive on the high of infatuation. They live chaotic lives and make poor choices looking for that �high�. They also often aren�t good in long haul relationships because as the high inevitably wears off, they go seeking it elsewhere. They also can be so single minded in their pursuit of their love object that they ignore the needs of others, or even rational behavior. Her lack of concern about your son feeling replaced by her and her family is a red flag.

2) The clutter thing. I�m not a slob, but not a neat freak either. My Ex was a total neat freak. It�s a lot of pressure and friction ( we hired a cleaning lady which helped considerably). I think you may be overly optimistic about your ability to live with the chaos and clutter that will inevitably come with her family moving in with you. You�re going to have to get comfortable with the idea of loosening your standards and meeting in the middle.

I have a lot to say. But I won�t say most of it.

But the point is, you can�t let her make decisions about your life without you. I find it completely disrespectful she didn�t ask you if it was OK to give notice on her apartment on April 1st. Especially when you expressed here that it was agreed upon sometime after the school year.

Like you said, she is a woman who is aggressive towards getting what she wants. And to be inconsiderate of others while she barrels towards it isn�t right.

You need to speak up Andrew. This is where it could be very detrimental to you and your son and all you have if you decide to be passive. You cannot let her drive the ship alone . You need to be ok with making decisions and being firm with them.

And I will say this, and it�s good for thought. When we date someone, we hear only their side of their story where things went wrong. Usually, the person we are with paints the picture of the victim, but if you speak to the other, you will find something very different.

Protect yourself and your home and your family. You need to stand up. It looks like you might be seeing where you do need to stand up for yourself. And how you do so will show a lot about what her true intentions are.

Take care, Andrew

I will say that S asked multiple times if I was ok with her giving notice on April 1st, often within the context of "are you sure you want to get married". And I said yes even though I thought it an aggressive / optimistic timeline especially given my own need to have S25 safely launched first. So it's all on me.

I think fundamentally that this last thing goes around to, like many things in any relationship to a communication failure / managing expectations. She I am confident thought that spending as much time here as possible and making this her home base was what I was wanting in the short term and that matched her wishes. A certain amount of guess-work there I suppose.

On my part, I had presumed we'd be still going on dates, and just have the occasional overnight leading up to the official move-in.

I did get a lengthy message from her later in the day. I expect that she had to work her way up to what she wanted to day. She did tell me that she was disappointed and sad and that she will have a hard time explaining the delay to S13.

The old me would have apologized even more, back-tracked and tried to "make it all better". Instead I thanked her for her patience with me.

She also seems to have lost her engagement band. She'd thought it was here but I looked all over - even moving things - and couldn't find it. I'm pretty confident she had it on when she left and she said that she missed it when going to take it off before bed. I have seen it at her apartment sitting in various and odd places so hopefully it will turn up soon.

Day 13. Another day of being tough to get out of bed. I opened the curtains and lay there for quite a while listening to the latest episode of "Our Plague Year" while the rain fell gently outside. This is done by the same person who did one of my more favourite podcasts "Welcome To Nightvale". He started this project after abruptly canceling their current live tour. Some might disagree with my choice but despite it being a set of sad stories as the various commentators talked through their feelings and their fears, I found myself feeling better at the end. I think that sometimes, trying to feel "bucked up" when you are actually feeling a few letters farther down the alphabet doesn't help. It certainly doesn't help with me. Having a good wallow and then knowing that you can move on through the muck is how I've been able to deal with things.

My plans for today are fairly muted. Shortly I think I'm going to have a soak in the tub and read the book I bought from that same author as the podcast. His writing is just amazing. I bought the book earlier than I might have, his work is sometimes at the local library too, but each bit that I can do to help people who are hurting in this time is a good thing. I perhaps should have consulted with S on this but I also made a donation to MSF / Doctors Without Borders. I'm sure they can use a few bucks and I can certainly afford it given that my car has been largely just sitting in the garage. S and I have talked about both working together on budgets and financial planning starting in April.

I'd asked S yesterday if she wanted me to come by the apartment today for an hour or so and help out with things. She never responded but may have missed the offer. I'm not going to push it. She is a slow starter especially on weekends so might respond later. Even though I would only be in contact with her, the whole #stayhome thing is pretty important and I wouldn't be showing a good example to the community by driving around.

I have almost all the framing completed for the rabbit hutch and will probably finish that today. Next would be installing the top and both floors. I should have it all done in the next week or so I hope. It's been a fun project and has served as a reminder on how much I enjoy puttering down in the shop despite the bashing my head gets from the very low ceiling.

I have a ham in for dinner tonight. Not sure what I'll do for the starch / carb portion. I may give rice another try as S guided me to my first successful making of that the other day. No wine but I do have sparking juice from Ikea which S25 also likes. Before S moves in full time I need to be 99% alcohol free. I can still have a beer with friends after work but going through a 12 pack on the weekends will be ending. Tough to break habits of more than 30 years. I've been able to substitute ginger ale which gives me a similar kick without the buzz but that's a lot of sugar. I need to experiment around and find something that is both refreshing, easy to just have in the fridge and good for me.

Enough for now. Hope everyone has a nice peaceful and quiet day and isn't going too stir crazy. What times we live in indeed. We do still all have so very much to be grateful for. Friends chiefly among that list.

Andrew,

Maybe it's time to step back and bit and give her some space. It's also time for you to have a bit of space to regroup and think about how you think things should be looking while moving forward. When the two of you get together again, at least you can have something down on paper or in your head as to how you think the relationship should be moving forward and she should do the same. It should not all fall on one person.

I do think she was moving a bit too fast and building up the expectations of her son that is 13th. It's up to her to explain to him that moving in with Andrew isn't going to happen until summer and not before then. His comments, even though he is young, made me think that S may have filled his head w/hopes and dreams that he would take over your S25's bedroom after he moved out. I wonder how she would have felt if you had spoken to her about her son the way she did yours. I don't think she would have liked it one bit.

For now, leave her be and let her stew a bit. She's the one that was going to leave, packed her stuff up and wasn't going to talk to you about it. Give her the space she needs to settle herself down. When she realizes that you aren't going to apologize or bend over backwards and change your mind about things, she just might respect you a bit more than she has and come to realize that Andrew does have a very stiff/strong backbone and knows how to say no.

If she has truly lost her engagement band, do not offer to purchase another one. She should have been more responsible and put it in a safe place for safe keeping. I can't help but wonder if she tossed that out there to make you feel guilty because she packed her stuff up and went back to her apartment. Whatever the reason, you've looked and now the onus is her to find it or live w/o it.

Andrew, learn to DB her. You can do this. Stay strong, stay positive and above all else...stay true to yourself and do not allow her or anyone to manipulate you into doing something you aren't ready to do.

Originally Posted by job

If she has truly lost her engagement band, do not offer to purchase another one. She should have been more responsible and put it in a safe place for safe keeping. I can't help but wonder if she tossed that out there to make you feel guilty because she packed her stuff up and went back to her apartment. Whatever the reason, you've looked and now the onus is her to find it or live w/o it.

Andrew, learn to DB her. You can do this. Stay strong, stay positive and above all else...stay true to yourself and do not allow her or anyone to manipulate you into doing something you aren't ready to do.

Sadly, the �lost� engagement ring scenario that job mentioned also popped into my head. It seems odd that she suddenly lost it when she was unable to run rough-shod over you and was just going to pack all her stuff and leave in a huff. Andrew, my dear, if these are not HUGE red flags, I don�t know what else would be. She is clearly trying to manipulate you and the entire situation and doesn�t even seem to be working too hard to hide it or deny it.

Please really think about the DB principles and try to employ them here. She is making some very serious power moves here to get her way and you are just making excuses for her. You say it was mostly on you that she wants to give notice on her apartment on April 1.....it seems, at least from an outside perspective with very little insight into her side of things, that she�s been pushing this agenda and to avoid conflict, you�ve adopted a go along to get along attitude without really voicing what YOU want.

As far as her comments about your son, you know I�ve been one of the most vocal about moving him along because he is a grown man and needs to act and live like one. That is easy for me to say from the outside looking in. But, you are the one who keeps saying you will be hands off in dealing with her kids and yet she is ballsy enough to basically tell you to throw your son out to make room for her kids. Really?????? I disagree to an extent that your adult kids should be involved in your romantic decisions and I really don�t think younger kids should be involved in such matters, but you can�t be hands off with her kids (especially when they live in your house and you are responsible for the lion�s share of their financial support) and then let her be so vocal about how you deal with your son.

Andrew, I want you to be happy. Sometimes you sound happy with S and sometimes it seems that you are just more happy with having someone to spend time with and fuss over and it could be anyone. I certainly don�t expect you to share all the details and fine points of your interactions but sometimes I, sadly, picture you as one of those beleaguered sitcom dads who just throws his hands up and goes �whatever you want dear� while his significant other and children walk all over him.

You are clearly a kind, gentle, caring man with a lot of love to give and I think having a girlfriend/fianc�/wife gives you a sense of purpose. It�s too late to say it now since the train is barreling at full speed toward the edge of the cliff, but be careful. Pay attention to the red flags that are waving vigorously right in your face. And do NOT let her use her last relationship experiences to guilt you into things you don�t want or aren�t ready for.

Thanks job/Dawn.

I just got back from dropping off a clothing donation of some wool pants that will never fit me again. I shrunk them a year or so ago and kept hoping that they'd fit. It looks like pretty much the whole village was out walking in the sudden burst of sunshine and warm weather we got on an otherwise rainy day. I wasn't able to go through our lovely park today though as it has been closed. People generally seemed to be doing well. A couple of groups from our village Baptist congregation were out dropping off flyers offering to assist anyone who needs it. With the general store closed and a good number of elderly people who find it difficult to manage at the best of times, that was nice to see.

I was surprised to get a message from S as I was walking asking how my walk was. She must have been checking the location sharing app we have. She asked what was being cooked for Sunday Supper (a ham) and if she was expecting an invitation I ignored that. She's still hunting for her ring and I expressed confidence in her ability to find it. The keys to her locker were lost for 2 months after she set them down somewhere safe - always a mistake.

I'm figuring that it will be a couple of days before we see each other again. She has an online doctor's appointment with S13 tomorrow so will need to fetch him from is Dad's place.

I told her that I have a fresh pot of tea and doing some office-work this afternoon which I should get back to. Got a virtual smooch in return.

I agree completely that I need to work harder on controlling and enunciating my own agenda and not just "go along". The standard DB principles of self-respect and being respected, not minimizing my own needs and not losing myself in the needs of others certainly apply.

Originally Posted by JujuB

There�s an old article in The NY Times magazine you might be able to google that talks about how the best predictors for successful relationships is knowing how to fight fair. That this is more important then compatibility. Look at how she argues with you.

this is entirely true, in my experience. my exh hasn't a clue how to fight fair, it's either stonewall or eviscerate. this was even brought up by our marriage counselor. it's an essential ingredient to a successful relationship, romantic or otherwise. I've often wondered where we might be if he'd bothered to hone that skill.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Andrew forgive me, I feel like I'm being obtuse in this question but I've read this a few times and I'm still not clear on why the 4/1 deadline is coupled with 'are you sure you want to get married' ...

maybe I'm missing something but I think it's possible to want to get married in the future and live separately in the present?

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I did get a lengthy message from her later in the day. I expect that she had to work her way up to what she wanted to day. She did tell me that she was disappointed and sad and that she will have a hard time explaining the delay to S13.

and why is this your problem? this is her son, she's mismanaged his expectations then it's her responsibility to fix that. not fair to use that in any argument.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

The old me would have apologized even more, back-tracked and tried to "make it all better". Instead I thanked her for her patience with me.

Bravo, Andrew!! Good job not buying into this.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

She also seems to have lost her engagement band. She'd thought it was here but I looked all over - even moving things - and couldn't find it. I'm pretty confident she had it on when she left and she said that she missed it when going to take it off before bed. I have seen it at her apartment sitting in various and odd places so hopefully it will turn up soon.

She's a big girl. this is her responsibility.

Originally Posted by AnrewP

I perhaps should have consulted with S on this but I also made a donation to MSF / Doctors Without Borders. I'm sure they can use a few bucks and I can certainly afford it given that my car has been largely just sitting in the garage. S and I have talked about both working together on budgets and financial planning starting in April.

It's lovely that you feel that you should include S in your current financial decisions. That shows that you are thinking like one half of a committed pair. Current reality is that these are your resources, and you are under no obligation, direct or implied, to consult with anyone on how and where you spend your resources, and can spend however you deem appropriate. Doctors without Borders is a great way to try to help mitigate the current situation on our planet and I suspect helped you to feel like you were a bit less powerless in the face of this. Don't feel bad about spending your hard-earned coin in any way you need or want to spend it.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Thanks job/Dawn.

I was surprised to get a message from S as I was walking asking how my walk was. She must have been checking the location sharing app we have. She asked what was being cooked for Sunday Supper (a ham) and if she was expecting an invitation I ignored that. She's still hunting for her ring and I expressed confidence in her ability to find it. The keys to her locker were lost for 2 months after she set them down somewhere safe - always a mistake.

Hunh. I'd have been surprised too.. Glad you ignored the expected invitation. Good job! Good job not getting sucked in re: the missing ring.

Originally Posted by AmdrewP

I told her that I have a fresh pot of tea and doing some office-work this afternoon which I should get back to. Got a virtual smooch in return.

Well done here as well.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I agree completely that I need to work harder on controlling and enunciating my own agenda and not just "go along". The standard DB principles of self-respect and being respected, not minimizing my own needs and not losing myself in the needs of others certainly apply.

Good job Andrew. I like that you are putting yourself into this equation in a way that is respectful and fair to both sides.

Day 14 of ???

Thanks bttrfly for the encouragement. This stuff isn't easy.

S messaged me in the late afternoon that she'd found her ring. Phew. Even though I treated it as "no big deal" it is something very symbolic to me and I believe to her as well. I just made sure that she knew that I had complete confidence in her being able to find it. She is a "Mom" after all and has been finding things that nobody else can find for decades.

According to "math" we've been dating either 6 or 7 months depending on how you count it. Limerence is largely a memory for me although I do go gooey from time to time still. I hope that I can approach things fairly objectively. As has been suggested, there is a real possibility that S is a variety of love addict. She certainly gives the impression of feeling things very strongly. She self-identifies as a "highly sensitive person" and that is one of the traits. Despite some outside perspective she doesn't jump from person to person and has at least in recent years had long gaps between relationships.

I can't be completely sure how S is feeling about everything. I'm sure she was upset and disappointed as she said. I honestly can't recall suggesting that she not continue to stay over before she left in her huff last Friday afternoon. Perhaps it was all in her head (?). I do know that she was frustrated by the fact that even though we were both in the same house that I spent all my time during working hours doing - you know - work. Then after work it's cleaning, cooking, taking the dog for a walk and all the usual household stuff. I suppose she could have been doing some of that but I'm not going to push her in to a domestic role and I enjoy doing the domestic stuff so why push someone else to do what I like doing other than to make more time for the two of us. I had maybe asked about what was up with the boys and if she was going to get S13 from his Dad and that got interpreted as wanting her out? There's no winning on trying to figure out that sort of stuff.

I think part of the issue we are having is that I've been very vague on what moving in actually looks like and the timelines. S had asked me at one point some months ago to make a list which I did and we talked about. She didn't do a list. Mine had things like doing redecorating and getting her dog registered with the township etc but no specific dates. It didn't have anything for her side of the process as that was "her side" and for her to take care of. S is very much a "list" sort of gal though. I think we need to talk and work together on a list with timelines and such. That will also help the boys I think so that they can see concrete information on where and when things will be happening.

Her S17 might not be moving in after-all. He has an offer from a buddy to move in with him and S is in favour of it. Buddy's parents travel a lot and are absent for months at a time (????) and they have I believe a loft apartment that S17 would be in. Not my kid and S seems perfectly comfortable with this idea. Given though that plans have changed a couple of times in the last few months I won't be shocked if they change yet again.

S25 and I had a chat over dinner last night (ham, mashed potatoes, veg with cheese sauce. Sparkling juice for accompaniment). He commented on how when he was a student with room-mates that girlfriends seemed to always be just moving in absent invitation. He was saying that they had a perfectly reasonable house just a few doors down but for some reason wanted to be in the over-crowded guy unit. Perhaps this is a thing? Women moving in unilaterally? It more or less happened to me with my ex when as soon as I signed the lease on a new apartment for me after we'd been dating for a few months started packing her own stuff.

He's really looking forward to being on his own. He said that work is going well and that the heated forklift (which he now is certified to run) isn't worth it as part of you gets slightly warm and the rest freezes even more. He expects to pass through his probation period without issue especially since they've already completed the paperwork. He's seen several people churn through the warehouse since he started making him not the most junior. Most of them are young people marking time before they move on to "something better". S25 is happy with a steady pay-cheque and the fact that he'll have benefits in just a week or so. He said that he expects to be working there for the indefinate future and that he works with guys who've been there 20 years and made a good life out of it.

Not sure what his mother thinks of all of this but I've certainly been supportive of this attitude. Not everyone needs to wear a bow tie every day and take conference calls. There's no reason why he can't have a very good blue collar life. His mother used to always push the kids for "more" and to look for that next brass ring to grab.

I think my vacation coming up is going to be both a challenge and opportunity. There is so very much to do around the house and maybe I'll even do it. I have a huge stack of books both physical and electronic that I can read as well. The framing of the rabbit hutch is now done and it needs probably another 4 or 5 hours of work to finish. I sent a picture of it to S last night and she and S17 are very excited. It's bloody huge. S25 and I leaned on it and held a beer and debated if it would fit out of the cellar door. I made reference to the one time his mother helped me carry a small sailboat I'd built out of the door and how proud she was that she hit her head (she's 4' 11"). I'm finding it easier to talk about her and the past with him.

I checked and we are more than welcome to wander around the farm whenever we like. It will be good to show S (and I suggested the boys too) around. The place is nothing like the working farm I grew up on. The barn is gone, the old house is ready to fall over on it's own, there's a new house, sheds and the place is more like a park than a farm. My SIL had been marketing it as a nature retreat with some success before "all this".

Well - I have a procedure checklist to go through, at least 2 memos to write and a conference call after lunch. Should be a busy day.

Stay safe all.

She gets upset when you have a full- time job which needs to be worked at home? And if she wants to move in why wouldn�t she have a domestic role around the house? What does she do all day? She can�t go out , she shouldn�t be going out and she doesn�t work . And that can�t fall on you because you have to work. You have a career. And I think you might be making some excuses for her again.

Her expectations seem to be very unilateral.

And no, women don�t move into to a guys house unilaterally. Especially with their children and pets. That is not a thing, nor should it ever be a thing.

You were standing up for yourself a bit more and I think you would benefit from that rather than falling back into the habit of being passive and letting her drive the ship. You can do it.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Day 14 of ???

Thanks bttrfly for the encouragement. This stuff isn't easy.

No it isn't, but a long term healthy relationship is worth the hard work.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

S messaged me in the late afternoon that she'd found her ring. Phew. Even though I treated it as "no big deal" it is something very symbolic to me and I believe to her as well. I just made sure that she knew that I had complete confidence in her being able to find it. She is a "Mom" after all and has been finding things that nobody else can find for decades.

According to "math" we've been dating either 6 or 7 months depending on how you count it. Limerence is largely a memory for me although I do go gooey from time to time still. I hope that I can approach things fairly objectively. As has been suggested, there is a real possibility that S is a variety of love addict. She certainly gives the impression of feeling things very strongly. She self-identifies as a "highly sensitive person" and that is one of the traits. Despite some outside perspective she doesn't jump from person to person and has at least in recent years had long gaps between relationships.

I think it bears watching on your part, Andrew, as I think you may be on to something here.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I can't be completely sure how S is feeling about everything. I'm sure she was upset and disappointed as she said. I honestly can't recall suggesting that she not continue to stay over before she left in her huff last Friday afternoon. Perhaps it was all in her head (?).

I take it she said that you suggested she not continue to stay?

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I do know that she was frustrated by the fact that even though we were both in the same house that I spent all my time during working hours doing - you know - work. Then after work it's cleaning, cooking, taking the dog for a walk and all the usual household stuff.

Ok - here's my aha moment. How is this (working, then chores, etc) any different than what would happen in your ordinary, every day life? Granted, you would be working outside the home most days, but all the rest, the boring, mundane activities of everyday life ... that's where the rubber meets the road. That's what life will be like once she's living there, once you are married.

I don't know too much about love addiction, but this complaint smacks of someone who is in love with love, the limerence part of love, and not so much understanding the rest of the love package. And if that's the case, then there is work to do here, on her part Andrew, not yours. Does this make sense to you? Everyday life is boring. It's mundane. It's downright grueling at times (like now). Love isn't always 'pay attention to me' and roses and champagne. It's a bloody lot of hard boring work that you're happy to do together. Together being the operative word.

BTW - I hope she wasn't complaining about you walking her dog???

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I suppose she could have been doing some of that but I'm not going to push her in to a domestic role and I enjoy doing the domestic stuff so why push someone else to do what I like doing other than to make more time for the two of us. I had maybe asked about what was up with the boys and if she was going to get S13 from his Dad and that got interpreted as wanting her out? There's no winning on trying to figure out that sort of stuff.

Andrew what does she want to do when you're together? What's her ideal activity? What's her plan for household management now and after you guys start living together?

As far as her interpreting that you wanted her out - is this gas lighting? - I think she's put out that you are not as easily manipulated as she expected, perhaps not even on a conscious level.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I think part of the issue we are having is that I've been very vague on what moving in actually looks like and the timelines. S had asked me at one point some months ago to make a list which I did and we talked about. She didn't do a list. Mine had things like doing redecorating and getting her dog registered with the township etc but no specific dates. It didn't have anything for her side of the process as that was "her side" and for her to take care of. S is very much a "list" sort of gal though. I think we need to talk and work together on a list with timelines and such. That will also help the boys I think so that they can see concrete information on where and when things will be happening.

No.
You did the work. You made your list. She needs to pony up her own list. Get where I'm going with this? It's about her fully stepping into the responsible parts of a relationship rather than all the lovey-dovey limerence crap that is nice, but fades quickly. She really needs to make her own list and then you need to sit down together as adults and compare lists and do whatever it is you guys need to do to come up with a plan. She is not a list gal, as portrayed here. She's a giving orders and not acting on any gal. Maybe unfair, but that's how I'm reading it.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Her S17 might not be moving in after-all. He has an offer from a buddy to move in with him and S is in favour of it. Buddy's parents travel a lot and are absent for months at a time (????) and they have I believe a loft apartment that S17 would be in. Not my kid and S seems perfectly comfortable with this idea. Given though that plans have changed a couple of times in the last few months I won't be shocked if they change yet again.

Let's be clear for a second: the world, as we know it, is in lockdown for the foreseeable future. No one, imho, should be moving anywhere right now, until this pandemic is past, the dust clears, and we see what kind of physical, economic and emotional state the world is in.

Originally Posted by AndrwP

S25 and I had a chat over dinner last night (ham, mashed potatoes, veg with cheese sauce. Sparkling juice for accompaniment). He commented on how when he was a student with room-mates that girlfriends seemed to always be just moving in absent invitation. He was saying that they had a perfectly reasonable house just a few doors down but for some reason wanted to be in the over-crowded guy unit. Perhaps this is a thing? Women moving in unilaterally? It more or less happened to me with my ex when as soon as I signed the lease on a new apartment for me after we'd been dating for a few months started packing her own stuff.

smart young man there.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

He's really looking forward to being on his own. He said that work is going well and that the heated forklift (which he now is certified to run) isn't worth it as part of you gets slightly warm and the rest freezes even more. He expects to pass through his probation period without issue especially since they've already completed the paperwork. He's seen several people churn through the warehouse since he started making him not the most junior. Most of them are young people marking time before they move on to "something better". S25 is happy with a steady pay-cheque and the fact that he'll have benefits in just a week or so. He said that he expects to be working there for the indefinate future and that he works with guys who've been there 20 years and made a good life out of it.

Not sure what his mother thinks of all of this but I've certainly been supportive of this attitude. Not everyone needs to wear a bow tie every day and take conference calls. There's no reason why he can't have a very good blue collar life. His mother used to always push the kids for "more" and to look for that next brass ring to grab.

It's his life and up to him to find what suits him. I'm glad he's found something that suits his current needs. Where he goes from here is an open road of his choosing. We parents always want something better for our children. I think we need to want them to find something that makes them happy and is in alignment with their needs, not our own.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I think my vacation coming up is going to be both a challenge and opportunity. There is so very much to do around the house and maybe I'll even do it. I have a huge stack of books both physical and electronic that I can read as well. The framing of the rabbit hutch is now done and it needs probably another 4 or 5 hours of work to finish. I sent a picture of it to S last night and she and S17 are very excited. It's bloody huge. S25 and I leaned on it and held a beer and debated if it would fit out of the cellar door. I made reference to the one time his mother helped me carry a small sailboat I'd built out of the door and how proud she was that she hit her head (she's 4' 11"). I'm finding it easier to talk about her and the past with him.

I'm sure you're being able to talk about his mother with him in an easier manner is very healing for him. I know it is for my son.

Have a good day Andrew. I'm proud of you for asking yourself the harder questions, taking a step back and giving yourself space.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

And no, women don�t move into to a guys house unilaterally. Especially with their children and pets. That is not a thing, nor should it ever be a thing.

agreed.

Just an observation. It almost seems like S has little interest in work or the day to day. She doesn�t want to work or be tied down to a full-time job. She doesn�t want to work to keep her house clean. She doesn�t want to work at even walking her dog. And somehow she�s figured out a way to get away with living like this. I guess more power to her if she can get someone else to do it for her. Thing is, that doesn�t seem to be true because now it would seem she doesn�t want YOU to do these things either. She doesn�t want you to work - rather instead you should pay attention to her. She doesn�t even want you to take care of the dog - HER DOG. Was it not one of her children that pretty much did the same with their own pet who then soiled the carpet in a bedroom? Where did he learn this behavior?

You�ve got to be seeing this Andrew. You may be a lot of things and you and I, well you and many guys, might be VERY different people, but you are certainly not lazy. You are not a, whatever, it will work itself out, kinda guy. It just seems one thing to want or expect you to take care of her and most everything necessary to life but then a whole other to be upset with you when you do.

I really wonder if her moving in BEFORE you get married is perhaps the very best thing that can happen. I get the very strong feeling that if she does, you will really rethink getting married. I think you are already starting to see her view of what married looks like is vastly different than yours. It would seem something much the same happened with B.

One last thing, was it not S17 that you�ve been building this big rabbit hutch for - by yourself I might add - and now S17 might not even move in? Just what will you do with it, or can it be moved to his new location?

I wondered the same about the rabbit hutch and I worry that the rabbits might still move in without S17 and make yet another thing that Andrew will have to take care of. I totally agree with Don. Andrew, please be careful.

I might be wrong, but I thought the rabbit hutch was being built for S13.

I agree w/Don on the fact that by her moving in partially and then possibly totally later on may just give you the bird's eye view of what marriage will be like, not only w/her, but w/all of the baggage she's bringing right along w/her, i.e., her children, pets and all of the stuff that she really does need to go through and determine what is actually needed going forward in her new married life.

I realize she has some health issues, but when you are working from home, you are still working, it's not a day off, per se, but doing actual work and being in contact w/your customers and superiors. While you are working, she could either be working on her hobbies or even dusting, straightening up and yes, even walking the dog. Even though school has shut down due to the virus, she should be working w/S13 as much as possible on studies so that he's not too far behind when school resumes. Maybe my expectations are too high.

Something to consider...is she going to pack herself up every time she doesn't get her way?

Andrew, do not sell yourself short, you have ambition, you are an intelligent man who loves to travel and try new things all of the time. You love being able to help others, etc., but please, have her make her list. After all, marriage takes two people to make it a success. How will you know what she wants/expects from the relationship unless she prepares a list? Her list may be in her mind and it could very well change from day to day and her expectations will not revealed until you falter, stumble and say enough for the time being.

Had you told any of us that you needed some quiet time and/or space, I seriously do not think we would have been upset by the request. It's normal for people to want to have some down time or even quiet time to just relax and read a good book or watch a good movie. Try to remember...it's not your job to keep her happy and entertained. She's a grown woman and can figure out what to do w/herself when you are working from home or enjoying some quiet time by yourself. Enjoy that quiet time now...because once the crew moves in, there will be no rest for the weary or quiet time.

Stay safe. Also, she and the kids needs to remain in one place until this crisis is over. People feel fine and don't realize that they may be carriers until it's too late.

Originally Posted by job

I might be wrong, but I thought the rabbit hutch was being built for S13.

The hutch is for S17 who is going to need it regardless. His bunnies are emotional support animals that help him cope with anxiety issues. They currently live in an open pen in his room that takes up a massive amount of room and is hard to clean.

It's been a fun project. It's nice to get down into the shop and create especially since I've been largely making it up as I go based on what I have in the scrap lumber pile. I do need to get info on how wide a "standard" rabbit still.

I've also re-learned where the low spots are in my basement workshop as the bumps on my head make it seem that I am doing some home-phrenological rework. According to the image on the Wikipedia page, mostly in the areas of wit and language. Maybe that will help

I'll definitely talk to S about her working through a move-in plan. There are so many moving parts involved that even I have lost track.

Andrew,

One question. If S17 is going to move elsewhere...are the bunnies going w/him or will they remain at your home?

Yep, lots of moving parts to work through and figure out how to make them all work, i.e., just like a jigsaw puzzle. I have no doubt that by the time June comes, you will have it all figured out and will know how to proceed.

Originally Posted by job

Thanks job. The bunnies will be staying with S17 wherever he ends up.

Last day of work before vacation. Lots of crazy going on at work and in the world. It will be nice to be able to turn at least some of that off for a while although I just had a conference call scheduled for next week that I can't miss. Some tempers are rising a bit fast at work as well - best to stay out of all of that.

S invited me over for home-made chili last night which was quite tasty. She's put the onus back on me as far as the move-in timeline goes. Her - rather valid - argument was that it's me that is hesitant and wants to go slower. I think she and S13 would be here right now given the opportunity. I was rather shocked going in to her apartment as she's done an amazing job of tidying and organizing in the past while. S17 was there as well and pestered his mother that she really needs to be at "Andrew's house" so that he can have the place to himself. Some of it in good nature but there's a bit going on there than perhaps meets the eye. I'm keeping out of it and not trying to understand or analyze. Since S hasn't been going out and neither have I, I only had mild concerns about violating social distancing restrictions but it is in the back of my head constantly. S13 is still with his Dad out at the lakefront cottage that his Dad rented for the winter. No clue when he's coming back although his Dad generally shows little patience for having any of his kids around him for any length of time. By all accounts they are having a good time playing video games and board games and S13 going for wanders on the deserted beach.

So - the plan for right now is to make no promises, announce no timelines until I can get it figured out for myself on what I'm comfortable with. I've been given the responsibility to make these decisions and there's no need to force anything. I did tell S that she was of course still welcome to come over to putter around here or have a soak in the tub and to overnight too. We ended on a fairly positive note, essentially taking a step back about a month where I can have a run at this again. This time knowing where the decision making needs to happen given appropriate consultation and communication. And I won't be making any decisions until I'm ready to. I know where I want to get to as a family with S and one or perhaps 2 of her boys living here, with S25 coming and going from his own separate place, living a modest quiet life with the occasional grand adventure.

Vacation should be busy-ish. There's a lot to do around the house and I'm hoping to tackle projects beyond the original plan. I may remove the last 2 false ceilings put up in the 1970s which will change the feel of the kitchen certainly and help when the summer heat comes in. I found out yesterday that the ceiling fan / light in S17's room at the apartment quit working some time ago so that needs to be fixed. Since both parts quit working at they believe the same time, I'm concerned that it may be a loose power connection and given the way that those are supposed to be wired it could be a fire hazard left alone. It's been broken for quite a while though so as long as it's not messed with all should be good. Hopefully I don't need to buy a new one but will bring along a spare light fixture from the ones I have in the shop to swap in if needs be.

S and I are going to go for a nature walk out at the farm tomorrow afternoon keeping proper spacing from my brother's family. I'm really looking forward to that. S intends to give a particular tree a hug - she is a literal tree hugger. It's the largest recorded ironwood tree in Ontario. We'll also be looking around to see if we can be inspired for decor for her D25's wedding scheduled for mid-June that may be postponed. There's a small beach down by the river-front and mixed cedar and hardwood throughout. A bit early for the trilliums to be up yet. The wild turkeys should be underfoot. There was a black bear sighting a mile or so away too recently so we'll be socially distancing ourselves from that sort of encounter as well.

Keep safe and sane everyone.

Day 2 of vacation. Another glorious sunny day here in Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan.

Planning on keeping busy despite the things I'd planned on doing while I'm on vacation being cancelled. Both sessions of the regional science fair, the get-away for S and I, visiting friends and picking up girl guide cookies etc. I just messaged my friend who supplies me the cookies asking if I can just send her money and she'll hold the case of cookies for me.

Getting some things done around the house was also on the list. About an hour after my vacation started I pulled out my ladder and pulled down the drywall false ceiling in the front hall stairwell. From an old newspaper that had been shoved into a corner to fill it up for plastering, the ceiling was done in late April 1955. That means that the wallpaper that I've been living with in the upstairs hallway is just slightly newer than that. I suppose it's time. I had to have a "sit" afterwards as it was a pretty high stress operation which is one of the reasons why I've not done it for 30 years. I am terrified of heights. I have some ideas on how I can safely get up to the now exposed ceiling for stripping wallpaper and patching the plaster which is one of the things that had held me off of doing it too. I'll probably pull down the false ceiling in the kitchen in the next few days too and now that these projects are started, they'll give me some focus continue to get these things done.

My phone just asked me to confirm if I still had a job / my work address was right. Sigh - yep. He knows when you're sleeping, knows when you're awake.

As an aside, one of the papers I found had a headline about the Salk polio vaccine just being rolled out in 1955. I sometimes think we've forgotten more than we've learned about how to deal with infectious disease.

S and I had pre-arranged to go out to the farm as I mentioned yesterday. What a glorious day. I introduced her to a couple of trees that are important to me and she gave them hugs. We took her little malti-poo with us who had a super time buzzing around at great speed from one puddle to another then rolling in the leaves.

There was absolutely an underlying tension going on especially on S's part. When I suggested we not go down a steep hill because of her bad back she reminded me that it's her back and she should be making those choices. Sigh. She has definitely cooled towards me a touch but given how warm and in some ways clinging she was this is perhaps an OK thing. Certainly she wasn't cold towards me by any stretch. Perhaps I'm not quite so the absolutely perfect man she thought I was (?)

We did say "hello" to my youngest brother and my nephew from a distance and had a quick visit. They seem to be holding up reasonably well. My brother is still working at the nuclear plant but his wife's wellness home-based business is shut.

I suggested we go back to the house and give the dog a wash in the laundry tubs and then make some dinner. We discovered lots of burrs in the dogs fur and there was lots of brushing and a fairly thorough second dip in the tub when we discovered that bears and other creatures do indeed [censored] in the woods and that she had rolled in it. We couldn't decide what to have for dinner that was based on the ingredients I had and I also was wanting the day to just be a "date" and so did an online order of pizzas which we picked up through a small hole in the plastic sheeting at the pizza shop's counter, and went back to the apartment and ate with S17.

I think I now understand something more about what's been going on. A lot of the pressure for S to move in here comes from her S17 who really likes being on his own as long as food is provided. He does have some diagnosed mental health issues which are generally controlled by various meds including one where he is quite argumentative. I don't know the names etc and trust that the proper medical people know what they are doing. S says he's been doing a lot better in the past year but with all the nonsense going on especially with his work hours, he's not been as consistent in taking his meds. While we were eating he was very aggressive in pushing that his mother needed to go to my house that night as he had plans to do some loud online gaming. This explains in part why S has turned one of the rooms into a refuge / craft room where she can putter and watch TV in peace. And perhaps why she was here so much before. Easier to go somewhere where she was wanted and it was peaceful. I can understand in part her annoyance and hurt when she was "booted out" of here too.

S deflected S17's push for her to come over last night to me. I told her that I was staying out of it. She asked directly if I wanted her to come over. I countered that perhaps we could go to her craft room and "hang out for a while" and that maybe she could come over another night. She seemed fine with that.

She's planning on coming over sometime today and since it's a nice day, do some laundry and hang it outside and probably stay the night. Her child-support is supposed to be in today and she'll also pick up some groceries which she is running very short on. I'm presuming she'll go back to the apartment the next day. S13 is still with his Dad and by all accounts that is going far more smoothly than any expected. Usually they can only manage one day and it's been more than a week I think.

Well - time to make another pot of tea and then start my puttering. I want to pull everything out of my drawers and re-arrange them. I'm just that exciting. I think it's safe to put the garden hose back outside now and there's a huge amount of yard work to do.

Stay safe all.

Despite what I like to think of as my ability to communicate clearly and effectively, it's pretty obvious that at times I fall flat on that particular skill set.

S stayed over last night and it was pretty clear that there was tension between us.

To make a long story short, she had been under the impression - based on the words that I had been saying for some time - that she could move in whenever she liked. She was very confused, hurt and upset when I pushed back on that. I expect that a lot of the tension was that she was worried if I could be trusted. Something we've both had issues with other in the past.

I'm grateful that she is willing to talk things out and to be fairly patient with me. It really comes down to the whole (I'm doing self censoring here) [censored] or get off the pot. On my side I've been hoping for more clarity in what is going on in the world, and what is going on with our respective sons before absolutely committing to things. As I've written here before, the streets are paved with hesitant squirrels.

So - the official move-in date is the May long weekend. She's annoyed because since she didn't give her notice a couple of days ago and was pretty dismissive of the fact that this gives us lots of time to get the stuff out of her apartment and get it ready for inspection. She figures she can move in a "very" short time.

So - it's done. It took a lot of courage for me to make that commitment but now that it's said and even written on the calendar, it will be so.

I told S25 about it as he was going out to work and he gave me a "whatever" shrug. He then gave me a hard time about going grocery shopping asking if I'd waited a full week (I had). He then gave me heck for wearing a mask - mollified when I told him it was my "buff" microfiber bandana thing that I had from when I had long hair. It's designed to be folded to make a 2 layer mask. He was concerned that I had gotten masks which should have been kept for medical staff. He felt that it was pretty useless based on the "common wisdom" from the CDC a short while ago. He didn't know that official opinions were changing. I made sure to take the gloves off before touching anything inside the car turning them inside out before putting them in the garbage and removed my scarf not touching the front and turning it inside out and putting it in the laundry to be washed before re-use. I only have a few more pairs of gloves around from the workshop so may have to consider other options. Very thorough hand washing after I put away the groceries.

Nervous times out there shopping. S's D19 and BF saw me at the grocery store parking lot and laughed at me with my covered face and gloves but appreciated me staying safe. A few people were wearing gloves and one other person a mask. One of the staff that I asked a question of and joked that I wasn't holding the place up seemed pleased that I was wearing my scarf.

More and more I'm realizing that this is going to be going on probably through the summer. A lot of "normal" won't be. S and I were talking wondering if the garden centres will be open for bedding plants. Probably not.

Well - enough for now. I'm going to start working on a stew for tomorrow night's dinner. I have a soup bone that I'll bake as part of that and for S's wee dog to get as a treat later.

Stay safe and sane everyone.

PS - if anyone sees doodler, let him know I said "hi". I wonder if he's found himself a berthing and is sitting off-shore somewhere. The place isn't the same without him here.

Does S25 have to be out by the time S moves in ?

Originally Posted by Ginger1

Does S25 have to be out by the time S moves in ?

He doesn't have to be but it would simplify things. Mostly between the various cats.

So you�re pressuring your son to move out in the middle of a pandemic so your impatient girlfriend can have her way?

No part of this sounds good to me. Her leaving her 17 year old to live largely unsupervised. Her lack of concern about your son�s feelings. Her pressuring you. Her impatience. Her inability to occupy herself when you�re working.

I hope you know what you�re doing my friend. And set aside some money so that if living together turns out to be a disaster you can afford to pay her first months rent and moving expenses.

^^^^ what she said^^^^

This world is in flux, the economy is in flux, there is an apocalyptic situation going on out there and you want your son who just got his feet to find an apartment in all this mess? I have always been a proponent for encouraging your son to grow up and take responsibility , but now is not the time to put that pressure on. It�s scary out there.

You know, I believe in 2 sides of the stories in relation ships. She had been the common denominator. Do you think perhaps maybe her view was these guys weren�t meeting her needs or is it possible she is so pushy and cold until she gets what she wants the way she wants it when she wants it??

You have your house on the line here and your retirement . You need to be very firm and vocal else your are going to lose it all and I hate to see that happen to you

kml - that is a rather harsh and blunt way of saying things but there is certainly some truth to what you said.

S25 has made his own choices. He could choose to stay. He wants to be on his own and has for quite a long time. He's finally in a position to do it.

The S17 thing confuses the heck out of me so I honestly can't comment other than the fact that while I'm worried about him but that he's not my kid to worry about.

Ginger - as far as S's past relationships, all I can honestly know if from her perspective and from the opinions of her kids which match her's. I do feel that she is in some ways a love addict who has a history of making some poor choices. Hopefully this time she's not.

I will be protecting myself financially even though she says that there is nothing to worry about. I haven't heard back from my lawyer's office as of yet as I imagine they are taking a break.

What woman actually goes into a marriage and tells their husband to be that there IS something to worry about?

Haha true G!!!

My concern about her S17 is what that says about her as a parent and as a partner. A Love Addict might sacrifice their child to obtain the love object. (I know of a woman who did just that - left her husband and her young kids to pursue an affair with SUPER famous musician, who had numerous women and she was just one of MANY at the same time. She spent the next decades focused on her �relationship� with said famous musician , left her ex to raise her kids, was really in love addiction lala land.

I just pulled out my drum so I can beat out the same song I have been playing all along.

We don�t need to know about her past relationships. We know she makes bad decisions because she is speeding into her 4th marriage (because the 4th time is the charm?) at the expense of s13 and s17.

When she guilted you by saying she did not know what she would tell s13 about the delay of moving in, actually, the conversation she should have had with him (and herself) is: I have a history of rushing into situations rather than working on myself.

Your hope that this time she is not making poor decisions is completely unfounded. And you know that as
you yourself state it in the above post and this is why you tried to put the brakes on this all. And you can still do that. She is not in any sort of position to lose anything in this deal. If she walks because you are not ready after less than a year and lots of crazy variables (pandemic, children, you don�t know each other, you are in limerence [which may be fading fast, causing her to speed this up]), she is not the one! You should both want to set this up to succeed not just to happen.

That said, I get why she is confused; because you are too! You have proposed to her which theoretically means you want to be with her til death do you part. And yet you are waffling. (And you have reason to be). Now, I am betting that if the rest of us gals here giving you advice were in S�s situation; engaged to a man who clearly had cold feet, we would downshift into neutral real fast. I know I would! Another example of her bad decision making skills. You are unsure and she does not care. She is going to harbor resentment over this delay. I can tell.

If you move forward with this make sure you talk to a lawyer about writing in a move out clause for her if things do not work out. Recently had a friend whose ex wife claimed she still lived at his house and by law she had a right to live there for 60 days or something like that even though they are divorced! But he let her stay over 1 night and she, crafty as a fox, found a loophole that she was a �tenant!� There are lots of laws out there protecting those who cohabitate.

Definitely discuss with a very trained lawyer all the clauses that protect you. You are the one with much to lose.

If this is harsh it is only because I have grown to care about you.

P.S. Outdoor gardening stores are booming here in CA. Might be the same there.

Wow.
Ok.
Andrew, I'm not really sure what to say here, but I do have a question for you. I remember months back, maybe three months into your relationship S sat you down because she wanted to talk about the relationship. In short order, you were engaged. She gets what she wants. Do you? I know you want the richness a marital relationship will provide. Believe me friend, I get it. My question is this, if she hadn't brought it up, would you have thought of this at that point in the relationship or would your pace be different?

When we date we are auditioning for a role. That role is different for each party. For one it could be the role of companion, lover, friend. For the other it could be the role of fwb, or girlfriend of wife. I think it's important to realize that it takes time to really get to know someone. Time is a commodity, like money. S seems to view time as her enemy. Your and your son's living situation changing is not up to a 17 year old with mental health issues. Your entire life changing isn't up to that same 17 year old.

Put another way: how many kids does S have? How soon did she move them out of the house? I do not understand this at all. I try really hard not to judge other moms; that said this is very strange to me and concerning. A 17 year old with a mental health disorder is still a child. He is a minor, isn't he? Is that different in Canada, the legal age, I mean? I would think he needs structure and counseling. And btw, every 17 year old wants their own place. Most parents won't oblige and with good reason.

It's really easy for us reading along to armchair QB your situation, based on the information you share. I know there is more to it than you're sharing, because you've admitted as much, and that's fine - who needs all the details? Only you do, my friend. My point is, I feel like she's pushing and pushing and pushing. Sometimes with more subtlety than others. You had a nice date. Now she's got a move in schedule, based on one day.

Andrew, I don't know S. I'm sure she's a lovely person. My point is I'm invested in YOU not her. I could give two actual f's about her wants, needs, timeline, hurt feelings, etc. I've not heard you say once what she is doing to make your life better. Not what you perceive the benefit to be by being with her. Actions that she takes on a regular basis to improve your life. What are they?

In every relationship there are gives and gets. Hopefully it's an even exchange. Think about this now, because it isn't going to get better later. You're in the audition phase. Maybe you need to read up on relationships with love addicts to get more information?

Well, Andrew,

The ladies have made many excellent points here about the recent discussion about the move in date. With the way that this health crisis is going, I do not think it is a wise move to have your son out there looking for a place to live at this time. Your home is clean, safe and healthy.

As for the situation w/the pets, well, the two of you will need to decide about them. Your son's cats, and since they love you as well, have first dibs on the place. Is there a way to to block off the downstairs so that all can continue to live there until this health crisis is over and your son has found a place? If not, then she needs to figure out what to do w/her cats before moving in.

Unfortunately, I do think she's pushy and I don't know just how long you will be able to put up w/that behavior once she's under your roof full time. Being passive and giving in will eventually create resentment in your towards her behavior and her. As you stated last week, you needed some time to recharge your batteries. Where do you think you'll be able to go to do this in the coming months if this health crisis continues?

Also, I may be wrong, but the kids are looking at you as the goose that is laying the golden egg. They are looking at you as the man who is going to make sure they have plenty of excellent meals, carpooling and being the father who treats them well. As for S, well....I don't know her, but if my IRL friend was involved w/someone who exhibits such behavior, I would tell them to run as fast as they can from getting in too deep until they had gotten to know her better.

Andrew, we all love you and care about YOU! Evidently something is going on because you come here to post about your situation and many of us are picking up on some under currents that are creating some concern for you, whether you actually are aware of it or not. Just be careful, don't push your son, Amy and Liz out the door just to make this woman happy. You have to think of your son's safety first. Relationships are a two way street and she needs to put her big girl panties on and figure out what she's going to do with all of those pets and stuff before she moves everything in.

BTW, our garden centers are open as well here in MD.

Originally Posted by bttrfly

I've not heard you say once what she is doing to make your life better. Not what you perceive the benefit to be by being with her. Actions that she takes on a regular basis to improve your life. What are they?

This is a very good point. I was just thinking this yesterday while reading the latest. It seems like you received more in return from B and were more excited to see her than you are S. It�s clear what S is getting from this R but what are you? It almost seems like you see all of these warning signs and down sides but being with S is still better than being alone.

And what about her D? She is so focused and pushing to move in with you. Is she at least equally focused and pushing to finalize her D? Is there even papers filed yet???? If not, ask yourself why not?

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