Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between

Posted By: Wanted1

Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 01/13/20 05:43 PM

Previous Thread From Newcomers:

Unsure what to do, what's next....Part V

I was on the Newcomers forum while my whole situation played out. While the year anniversary of my transition from M to officially D is just a month away, I still find myself coming back to the forums to check-in. It's therapeutic for me, maybe? I don't know for sure. This forum helped me through the worst time of my life and for that, I thank everyone on here from the bottom of my heart.

With that said, life has continued on for me. I've gotten used to my new normal and getting settled in with single-parenthood. As we all know, some days, it is extremely hard. Other days, it's a breeze. I guess that's the case with everything in life, though.

I come to this forum looking for some advice, however. You guessed it, dating advice, haha! That's usually the next chapter after D for most, right? I'll try to give a little background and it might get lengthy but please bare with me.

I mentioned quite a few times in my threads, previously, that I am from a very small town in rural America. That being the case, I sort of figured from the get-go that if I was going to find someone to share my life with, the chances of it being someone local to me would be pretty slim. I did the whole OLD scene, met a couple nice woman. Both very LD. One turned into an actual relationship. She was 6 years older than me. She had been single for quite awhile. Was D and had 1 kid. We had a great relationship. Nothing inherently wrong but things moved very fast. She had been single for so long that she was yearning for that connection and someone to share her life with. Me, similarly, not really because of the length of time, but because I missed what I thought I had had just a short time before that. We did care about each other deeply. But, as time moved forward, the distance dynamic started to take a major toll on me. I was the one doing the majority of the traveling. My work and my personal life suffered because of it. In the beginning I had this picture perfect idea of how it would work out so well. I have my kids 50% of the time and the other 50% of the time gave me the opportunity to travel to see her, etc. What I didn't account for was the 'me' time I was missing out on, the fact that work had gotten much more busier than I had been accustom to before and just the simple travel snafus and issues that come with airline travel and all of that. So, after about 6 months I told her we needed to take a break. I used the travel and long distance as the main reasons for the break but also I was finding myself getting a little uncomfortable with the speed at which our relationship was progressing. After all, it hadn't even been a year since my D was final and she was wanting to talk about M and her moving to where I live, etc. All good things, just not at the speed at which it was progressing. I did confide to her that all of that played a part but that it was mostly the travel and LD aspects. We always had an open and honest communication which was such a blessing and relief.

Shortly after things sort of ended with her, a local girl expressed interest in me. I'll will note, when I finally accepted the fact that I was getting a D I did try to suppress all that pain and sadness with trying to focus on positives. The whole situation had been sucking the life out of me for so long, I needed to focus my attention on something else. That, for me, was the prospect of finding someone new. Right, wrong or indifferent, that's the positive I took away. We are all in survival mode during those horrific times and we all do anything we can to get by. When I was thinking about who could possibly be out there for me, she was the only one I could think of that I might be interested in, locally. I say this to show there was some "history" there and it wasn't me just jumping from one R to another even though that's kind of what happened! While I should have taken that time to re-center myself and all of that, those feelings and curiosities from before surfaced and I didn't want to miss out on an opportunity. This door opened, so I chose to walk through.

When we started talking, I told myself I need to focus on making sure things didn't move quickly. I thought it was imperative that we take things slow. Well, so much for that. I hate to even say this and I honestly don't mean to sound egotistical or that I'm tooting my own horn because that's not my intentions..... but it's been a common thread throughout my life that girls fall in love with me pretty quickly. While it's great on one hand, it's pretty much [censored] on the other because they end up getting hurt in the end. I've only saved myself one time from not hurting someone and that was my exW and look how that turned out!

Now, here is where I need some advice....early on she asked me if I was open to having more kids. Which was an important topic to bring up early on since neither of us wanted to waste the others' time if our wants and desires didn't match up. At that time, I told her I was open to more because I honestly believe I was. Even before BD and D, if my exW came to me about having more kids, I think I would have been open to it. I only have one sister so having a big family has always been something I was excited about. However, as time has moved along and the more and more I truly think about the prospect of more kids, the less inclined I am to wanting more. Diapers, strollers, midnight feedings, day care --- all of that just doesn't sound like things I want to go back and experience again. I've been through all of that 3 times and my kids are now at an age where they are fairly self sufficient, they aren't needing me to entertain them constantly or requiring constant supervision every hour of the day. My youngest (4) will be in school full time in less than a year and so I'm finally getting to that point in my life where I'm not sure I want to go back and do all of that over again. I started to think about the timeline of it all. My youngest would probably be 6, if I were to even have more, at the earliest! That becomes a pretty big age difference and 2 more years of me getting used to having older kids and 2 years further away from all the work and exhaustion newborns and babies come with. She is 8 years younger than me, so she wants kids of her own and I understand that desire 1000% percent. It's important to her as it should be.

Obviously, I need to have this talk with her sooner rather than later. While my mind isn't 100% on the no kids thing, its about 99%. It's just the thought of hurting someone, again, scares the H-Ell out of me. I hate it. And the whole small town where everyone knows everyone dynamics makes it that much worse. I've known her and her family for 30 years. They do business with me. I know, deep down, that my happiness and being true to myself is the utmost importance but I also have always been wired to care too much what people think and worry too much about hurting other people. I wish I didn't, but I do.

I'm stuck and not sure how to proceed with the least amount of collateral damage. She's met my kids and loves them like her own and they adore her. That adds another layer to everything. My family likes her but they have said from the beginning that they don't think she is the "one for me." The small town thing just perpetuates all the crap that comes with this because I'll never be able to avoid her. It isn't like I can just break up with her and we both go our separate ways never to see each other again. 'Out of sight, out of mind' isn't a possibility unfortunately....
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 01/13/20 05:58 PM

Welcome to this part of the DB world Wanted. Sadly, our numbers are growing. Promise we are lots of fun though.

I appreciate you not wanting to hurt anyone but I think it is unavoidable in this situation. You have to be honest with her and the sooner the better. Sheís probably already checking out baby clothes in the local department store. If you have truly decided you donít want to have anymore kids, and it sounds like you have, than you need to let her know. After that...the ball is in her court and she can decide what her priorities are. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: Wanted1

Re: Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 01/14/20 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Welcome to this part of the DB world Wanted. Sadly, our numbers are growing. Promise we are lots of fun though.

I appreciate you not wanting to hurt anyone but I think it is unavoidable in this situation. You have to be honest with her and the sooner the better. Sheís probably already checking out baby clothes in the local department store. If you have truly decided you donít want to have anymore kids, and it sounds like you have, than you need to let her know. After that...the ball is in her court and she can decide what her priorities are. (((HUGS)))

Agree on all fronts. That's the crappy part, haha. The thought of crushing all of her hopes and dreams really causes me great stress and anxiety. It isn't like we have been dating for years, which is a plus. More like 4 months, but she moved things along quite quickly and I went along for the ride which, now, is unfortunate. I guess my only hope is to pray that she will understand and appreciate my honesty and that I didn't take her along for a ride longer or waste any more of her time. My ultimate hope would be that she is mature and mindful enough to understand where I'm coming from, that by being honest with her wasn't an easy decision or easy for me and that we can part amicably with no hard feelings or ill will. There will be heartache, for sure, but I hope resentment doesn't become a factor in it for her.
Posted By: Twofeet

Re: Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 01/14/20 06:01 PM

You really should tell her you thought about it and you don't want more kids. If that is a deal breaker then let her know she can just end it right there and then. I would do this sooner than later. Keep your head up and if it ends, steer it in a direction so it ends gracefully. I wouldn't let it bother you or worry about the small town problems. Its only a problem if you let it be a problem.
Posted By: Wanted1

Re: Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 01/14/20 09:17 PM

Thanks for checking in, TF, and responding. I think your suggestion is what is best. My goal in all of this is to absolutely steer it in a direction so it ends gracefully. That's my primary concern, really. I agree that it's only a problem if I let it be one....just easier said than done, haha. I've always been too concerned about whatever people think of me. It's probably my biggest weakness in all honesty. I wish I could get rid of that mindset. Not to the point where I'm a massive a-hole that doesn't care what anyone thinks, but simply in a way that it isn't a major concern or what my mind immediately jumps to when making decisions for myself, etc.

She's told me it's a deal breaker in the past. She came out and asked, point blank, very early in our time together. When we were still sort of in the talking phase. Which, I appreciated because it's better to know those types of things right off the bat. As I said, I was being truthful with her at the time. I do remember asking her what she would have done if I had said I was done having kids, and her response included the words 'deal breaker.' But then she went on to say something to the effect that she would have hoped I would change my mind moving forward. I'm a little concerned about that. If I tell her I'm done, I hope she doesn't think I'll change my mind, again, in the future. A lot of thought has gone into it since she posed the question initially. For good reasons, too, in my opinion. I don't believe she can really call me out on not being truthful on the matter. It isn't like I have 1 kid and that isn't to say if I had 1 I wouldn't be justified in saying I'm done. 1 is enough for some people. I have 3 -- 2 girls and 1 boy. Most people are done having kids after #3 comes along. Especially when they are all healthy and you have mix of both genders like I do. I originally hoped to have 2 boys. I don't have any brothers and wish I did, so having 2 boys would have been so much fun. But, now, having 4 and 5 kids would be a lot. Especially with what the prospective age differences would be between the first 3 and next 1 or 2. Again, it's all personal opinion, obviously. Some people could be open to that. I thought I was just a short time ago.

I hate to even admit this, but part of me is a little uneasy with the thought of having children with 2 different woman, now, too. I guess I'm old school in that respect. It's becoming more and more normal in this day and age. However, the thought of 4 or 5 children that share the same parents seem more "fitting" to me, I guess.
Posted By: kml

Re: Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 01/15/20 12:15 AM

Your reasoning doesn't matter - you don't want another child, you should NOT have one. Just tell her the truth - you THOUGHT you were open to it when you started dating, but now that you've sat with the idea for a few months, you realize you're not and you're sorry you wasted her time.
Posted By: Wanted1

Re: Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 01/31/20 05:30 PM

Well, I had the conversation with her. She had been gone over the weekend visiting family and meeting her new nephew. She originally had asked if I wanted to go along but I had a prior GAL activity that I participate in every year. However, due to the weather forecast it was postponed until this coming weekend. We didn't find out about the postponement until the day before she was leaving. As soon as she found out she called to see if I wanted to come with now that I was "free" for the weekend. I declined. I told her it was too short of notice and that I had already scheduled some work stuff that I couldn't miss. While that was true, if I really wanted to go I could have made it work. But, I just wasn't interested in driving 18 hours over the course of 4 days and in reality, wanted some time to myself to process everything and figure out what I wanted and all of that. I could tell she was a little disappointed but she tried to hide it and play it off as no big deal.

Over the the long weekend, I finally made the decision that I need to be honest with her about my desire for not wanting anymore kids. I felt like rather than move forward in fear for having that conversation and essentially leading her on and wasting her time, it was best to just come out with it. So, when she got back Monday she asked if I wanted her to come over and I said sure and that I had something I needed to talk to her about. She came right over and I just came out with it. I told her after the weekend to myself with no kids and no distractions, I was able to process and think through things and I had come to the conclusion that I didn't want anymore kids. That I knew that it was a deal breaker for her and that I was sorry it had come to this. I explained that I was always honest with her including in the beginning when I told her I was open to more kids but a couple weeks ago the question started to surface internally for me. I told her I decided that rather than make a rash decision on what could be a fleeting thought or feeling at that time, I sat on it awhile until I knew for certain. Just as I suspected, she didn't take it well at all. She told me I should have come to her initially when I started having those thoughts so that she wasn't blindsided and so that "we could make that decision together." She kept stating that she wasn't given any decision in the matter and that was disrespectful. To me, this isn't a decision "we" make together. It is a decision that I needed to make without any outside influences. There are a lot of scars and insecurities within her due to past relationships that didn't work out and all of that came to a head. She blamed me for introducing her to my kids which is rewriting of history in some aspects. I didn't introduce her right away but the whole time she was dying to meet them. She then went home to "think" and came back about a half an hour later and grabbed anything she had at my house, loaded it up and left. We did talk a few times over the next couple days via text and one other conversation in person. She did call me drunk later that night after the initial conversation which was very interesting to say the least. I took the call out of respect and tried to validate as much as possible. She then apologized the following morning and I validated her again and told her I held no judgment for the call. We all process things differently and that if I was offended or judgmental toward her, I would have simply not answered or hung up. In the beginning I explained to her that I would always be there to talk.

Looking back, it now feels as though she is very codependent in relationships. I don't know a lot of about her previous ones but I get the sense that she's probably always been this way and that played a part in previous ones. While I didn't notice any of this at the time, her constant insistence on helping with my kids, doing this and doing that and always offering her help in any way on the surface comes across as nice and just willing to help out. Which there is probably some true sincerity in it all. But, I also think she needed to feel as though she was a big help to me and was "needed." I'm just not the type of person that asks for help unless its absolutely needed. There were multiple times she would remind me that she can pick up my kids at school, take them here or there, etc. That's great and I appreciated the offers, but if I'm fully capable of handling those responsibilities, which are mine to begin with, I don't feel as though I should rely on someone else. During the conversation, she told me she felt like she was giving everything and I was giving hardly anything in return. That was simply untrue. I've always been a very generous person. I know fully well that that was her pain and heartache coming through.

So, while I wanted the break to be as amicable as possible, it doesn't appear that that is in the cards at least on the outset. I think with her being much younger than me, every other relationship she's been in has ended in some type of dramatic fashion. She kept insisting that her family and friends wanted answers to why I broke up with her....in my mind I was thinking "What more of an answer can I give her?!" We simply got to a point where we were at different stages of our lives. Part of that I think comes from her experiences in other relationships always ending in some big blow up, drama filled, fashion. She probably doesn't know anything different and hasn't experienced a mature relationship that ended in a respectful manner and essentially drama free. Another thought I've had is that she is trying to find a way to vilify me and more or less hate me. She needs a reason to dislike me because every other person she's been in a relationship with she dislikes now for one reason or another. I hope and pray that once the initial shock and feelings subside, that she will look back and understand the true nature and reason for why I chose to end things and that eventually she will respect me for the way it happened. But all of that is on her and I can't control it. We've all been in her shoes with regard to our M. Granted, at a much larger scale than a 4 month relationship but everything is relative for people. The part that confuses the ever living daylights out of me is when she tries to claim that her family and friends want theses "answers". I don't get why she can't simply state that he changed his mind on wanting more kids, that's a deal breaker for her and thus there is no reason to waste each other's time. Seems pretty easy and straightforward to me, but maybe I'm missing something.....

In actuality, how she's handled this shows me her true colors. Nothing has shown me that it was mistake in ending things with her. Her tone and words have been combative. There has been zero validation of my feelings even really an attempt to understand my point of view. She told me she doesn't understand why I couldn't compromise on one kid if I loved her. Pretty big compromise if you ask me. It isn't like we disagree on wall colors or where to go out to eat tonight. Not to mention, 1 kid probably then in turn becomes 2, etc. etc. I don't regret the relationship one bit. We had a great time together and I enjoyed every part of it. But that was all from the perception of life being bliss when things are going along smoothly and everything is great. In the end she did complain about me not going along with her to see her family that weekend. Like I said before, at the time, she tried to play it off as everything was fine and dandy but I sensed the disappointment and then the truth came out later on. I fear that these reactions from her give me a glimpse into how she would react if something didn't go the way she planned or wanted. I don't want to live or go through what I've already experienced once in life, again.
Posted By: kml

Re: Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 01/31/20 07:37 PM

When one person wants a child and the other doesn't, the "No" wins. Always. NO ONE should undertake having a child who doesn't want to have one.

And if she's bargaining and still thinking she can talk you into "just one" - she is revealing who she is.

After only 4 months there is no shame in you deciding this - it's not like you were in a ten year relationship then revealed you changed your mind.

The way she has handled this tells you a lot about her and her lack of maturity. (Make sure she doesn't sucker you back in for one last tryst that turns into an unwanted pregnancy btw).

Oh - and don't introduce your kids to anybody until it's been AT LEAST 6 months and you are PRETTY SURE it has long-term potential, ok?
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 02/01/20 05:50 AM

Sorry it didnít work out but I think you definitely dodged a bullet there so itís good it was only four months of your time and not four years. You definitely learn a lot about someoneís character when things donít go their way. I canít imagine me being in a relationship and then getting angry at them for not wanting a child with me. Like KML said, when it comes to children, the ďnoĒ should always win. There is no such thing as a compromise when it comes to kids. You either want them or you donít and if you donít, you shouldnít have them. You did the right thing. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: bttrfly

Re: Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 02/02/20 01:01 PM

the reason I have one child is because after our son was born my exh decided he didn't enjoy fatherhood as much as he'd thought he would. I wouldn't have a second with someone who felt that way. As DV said, be grateful to learn this early on. And who decides they want to have a kid with someone they've known 4 months? That's nuts. You've dodged a huge bullet here.
Posted By: kml

Re: Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 02/02/20 03:54 PM

Bttrfly, it wasnít a matter of him deciding to have a kid with her after four months. It was a matter of him saying heíd be open to the idea of another kid when they first started dating (she wants children) and then realizing pretty quickly that no, he really wouldn't want to do that again.
Posted By: HaWho

Re: Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 02/02/20 04:01 PM

I am sure that was a very hard conversation to have but, that said, you did nothing wrong. Her handling of it shows tremendous immaturity. As a woman, if I wanted another child and a guy told me he did not, I would thank him. The last thing I would want is to be in it alone.

Quite immature that she said you should compromise on having just one child if you loved her. Uhh, weíre not talking about having an extra dessert. One child = huge/lifelong commitment. Itís also really weird that she is trying to tell you that you owe her family and friends answers. No, you certainly do not. And itís wrong to guilt you.

Donít feel guilty. You did the right thing. Ditto KML, make sure you arenít put in a compromising position with her. It sounds like she is not a person who takes ďnoĒ well.

Lesson learned for future relationships: your mind is made up. Onwards and upwards.
Posted By: bttrfly

Re: Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 02/02/20 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by kml
Bttrfly, it wasnít a matter of him deciding to have a kid with her after four months. It was a matter of him saying heíd be open to the idea of another kid when they first started dating (she wants children) and then realizing pretty quickly that no, he really wouldn't want to do that again.

I meant her, not him.
Posted By: Wanted1

Re: Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 02/03/20 04:27 PM

Thank you all for responding! While I was "sure" I did the right thing and tried to be respectful as possible her reaction to it all made me start questioning whether or not I was missing something and question myself. Probably some ill effects of the gas lighting that took place after BD and all that fun stuff!

Nevertheless, I appreciate you all confirming that for me.

HaWho, I thought the same thing about her not taking "no" well. This was a glimpse into how she would probably react when she didn't get her way. Granted it was me ending things and she has every right to be upset, heart broken and all of that but just the way she handled it made me wonder if that's what life would be like each and every time things didn't go as she wanted.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this in the long diatribe before but we only had a couple minor disagreements in the 4 months and after reflecting back on those there was a lot of "You should have handled it this way" or "If you would have just done X, then it would have been better." In reality, those examples she used didn't change the outcome and were frankly pretty impertinent to the case at hand. It was more or less her need to be 'right' and/or her need to let me know that I'm wrong. The one glaring example of this we when she tried to tell me that I should have come to her when I started having those second thoughts about more children in the weeks before I let he know so, in her words, "we could make those decisions together and so she wasn't blindsided." Knowing the person she is now and sort of what I suspected all along, to be honest, that wouldn't have changed anything. She still would have freaked out I'm sure, tried to guilt me into or convince me to have more children and that would have been a blindside at the time, too.

In the end, just another example of logic not playing a part for one of the people involved!
Posted By: Twofeet

Re: Boom-or-Bust and Everything In Between - 02/03/20 05:25 PM

Don't have much to add beyond what the others have said. Children are a lifelong commitment and shouldn't be a decision you can negotiate on. You either want them or you don't. Its a good thing you took time to have some inner dialogue and come to the decision on your own and not work through it with her. Always listen to that inner voice. Not knowing she would do it, but if these thoughts came up and you discussed it with her together as she suggested, you never know if it could end in an unwanted pregnancy. I understand her being upset and not handling the end well, but the indignation, made up drama, petulance to being told no shows you some of the true her that she probably was hiding until true conflict came out. Sux bro, but how does the saying go... if you don't stand for something then you will fall for everything. Don't worry there will be other ladies.
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