Down, but not out ..... yet. - DivorceBusting.com

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I have no words

Nothing to say I haven�t said yet. Down, but not out. Praying for the low to lift. Working on. It.

I hope everyone has a fantastic thanksgiving

I�m so frustrated at myself for missing what I miss. And I guess you all can guess what that is. It makes me really sad. That I miss him/them even thought I know I wasn�t loved properly. My coworker and I were talking about him ( she met him when his mom was here because his mom was on her floor) and she felt so sad it ended. She also said that out of all her single friends, im one of the few who really should be with a wonderful guy and any guy would be lucky to have me. But none of the guys I date feel that way, lol. Or they do, and just can�t meet the standard

I�m other news, I began to read �intuitive eating� and it�s been such an eye opener. I�m at my all time highest weight yet I�m always trying to diet and instead I�m gaining weight. And that�s where I�ve gone wrong. Trying to diet. I eat like it�s my last meal all the forbidden foods and gain weight just doing that. So I�m working on changing my relationship with food. It�s been a crutch for depression, loneliness, and boredom. Then there is all this guilt around it. And I beat myself up.

Food is fuel, and food is enjoyable. I don�t want to make it something naughty or bad or restrictive and anything else in my life tied to guilt.

One time in my life where I lost weight unintentionally was when I was working a very stressful job on the road. And it was probably the one time in my life where I wasn�t caring about what I ate. I ate to survive and to fuel. And it wasn�t on the forefront of my mind. I�m trying to get back there. Not that stressed, but I had a better relationship with food.

I want to be healthy, happy, comfortable, and guilt free. I want to still enjoy food as I do, but I don�t even enjoy it with the weight and guilt attached to it.

Kind of an internal cleansing I�m trying to go through. Living freely and guilt free I guess

You miss the fantasy, not the reality of what you had. And that's ok - it's ok to still want that kind of relatiosnhip, just remember that he was a poor stand-in for what you really want.

Have you done anything yet towards making new single girlfriends that you can hang out with?

I guess I do miss the fantasy. But there was a portion of it that was really good. I miss that. And after a year, I guess that person just becomes a part of your life and quitting it cold turkey is rough. I�ll always care about him and wonder about him. And especially his son of course.

I have not tried to make any single women girlfriends. They are about as hard to find as a good guy to date. And they don�t give me the physical touch and intimacy I miss and crave, lol. Also, I�m in such a weird place. The newly divorced are like girls gone wild and the never married ones live a different life than I do. But I do have some coworkers looking out for someone to hook me up with. Not by me asking them to do, but by them wanting to do so.

However, I have a work holiday event every week until Christmas. I had a social work event last week and had a really fun time with my coworkers. I enjoy spending social time with them and I�m glad I�ve got something to do with them when my daughter goes to her dads. So, it�s a step in the right direction. I went to my friends for her birthday Saturday night with my daughter , but she wasn�t feeling well so we couldn�t stay too long. But I am not totally holed up in my home. It�s the nights. The nights kill me. But when it�s time, it�s time

What an emotional day.

Work was insane. I can�t even begin to tell you how hard I work each day. And I�m good with it. Except when I work pst my paid hours. Then I get cranky. We all do.

I left today to go to parent teacher conference. The perk of my job is her school is 5 min away from work. I saw her main subject teachers. And wow. Just wow. They love her. They think she is always engaged, is interested, tries really hard and is so focused. d12 loves her math teacher and her math teacher loves her. She said she�s seen such a change in her where she is focused, it freaking out and doing well. She pulled an A out at the end. Every teacher says she is a pleasure in class.

But the biggest proudest moment....

They all said she is such a happy kid and full of life. And let me tell you, as a parent of a child from a �broken� home... that is just about the best thing you can hear. The fear is your kid is going to suffer from divorce and it�s going to affect them awfully. I made it my life�s mission since she was an infant and this happened to make sure she was a happy kid.

And she is. Did the divorce affect her? Of course it did! Is this situation as it is better than if her parents were still together and nothing ever got fixed? OMG yes! But if you always put your kids first and make sure they are well-adjusted, it will happen!

I have a daughter who is super smart, passionate, strong and happy. May she test me and my patience daily, I couldn�t ask for anymore from her. I�m so freakin proud of the lovely lady she has become.

I�m other news, she did stay home from school today because it�s a half day and she�s so congested and uncomfortable. My dad came to spend some time with her and go shopping with her. He also brought up my Christmas tree so we can decorate it on Friday and him and I went out to dinner together because she went to dads house for his wife�s birthday. And that went well and we had a nice dinner and convo.

Tonight wasn�t their night but she wanted to spend it with every one for her stepmothers birthday. So I said she could go. And of course I wished her a happy birthday.

My ex and his wife have been making an unwanted entrance into my dreams. I�m a bit freaked by their desire to hang out with me and also be one happy family. It�s reflecting in my nightmares. In last nights me and my ex were reconciling and having this wonderful relationship. And then all of a sudden his wife�s parents fell ill and he just dropped me like a hot potato again and was nasty. I haven�t had a dream like that in a long time. And what freaked me out the most was me realizing I was again plan B.

And I will never, ever be plan B again.

I�m feeling that possibly in the new year I�d be ready to date again. It�s going to be difficult. There is a lot I won�t tolerate any more. But I so miss having a relationship. I want it again, and in a healthy way. I look forward to a healthy , happy loving relationship again.

I�ve also been doing really well with intuitive eating. Recognizing what�s worth it, when I�m full, and when I�m eating out of boredom or loneliness.

Everything in life I�m learning is a marathon, not a sprint

Wow, Ginger, now that is a HUGE win for you! Perhaps the most important win you can hope for in your life. I can't tell you how many woman put dating on hold until the kids are grown or at least deep into high school. There is nothing wrong with that - though I'm not saying you should do it either. You very likely still have half your life to go and I know it's not happened for you yet, it will. The law of averages just are hard to argue with - not finding someone in the next 25 years? Really? Not likely. But back to your D, it's great to hear how happy you are about it as you should be. Give yourself the credit you are due. It's likely not your Ex that is responsible for how she is turning out - it's you.

There are many other things you can continue to be proud of and I just hope you'll focus more on those rather on what you are longing for. Easier said than done, I agree, still it's going to be healthier and happier for you if you do.

As for the dreams, ugg..... I still get them occasionally too - although mine are different. I don't even know why I'd dream about my ex as I never think of her when I'm awake and have seen her once in the last 5 plus years, heck it might be closer to 10 years! However, my dreams are more that she comes back and for whatever reason I take her back and then totally regret it and feel like I'm trapped and can't get out and I go on dreaming OMG how did I let this happen? - I don't want this!!! LOL Hmmmmmmm perhaps it relates to my awake life? LOL

Anyhow, just wanted to give you congrats on being such a great mom.

Oh, BTW, KML asked if you had made any moves on meeting more single friends and doing things with them? Well....?

Thank you, don! My biggest fear is actually not ending up alone..... it was always �is my kid going to thrive and turn out ok?� And to see she is doing so well puts me at peace. Nothing would mean anything in this world if my child wasn�t thriving . I put her first all my life. Another partner was never my priority. She always was

Maybe just maybe one day I�ll find a great guy. And I�ll have it all!

I have not made any single girlfriends. It�s easier to find a boyfriend. I have a full social calendar with work events which has been out of fun so far. I love my coworkers and we have fun together. They are all my seniors by at least 20 years and mostly married, but I enjoy their company. One is in her 50�d and single. She�s got a date like every weekend! I should hang out with her more.

My friend came over after my workout tonight and did my hair with her new fancy hair tool. She asked me if I heard from that last guy, which I hadn�t. Like 10 min after she left I got a text from him telling me he hopes I am well and wished me a very happy thanksgiving. Why? I do not know. I simply replied that I am very well, I hoped he was too and wished him and his family a happy thanksgiving. It was weird too, because in my class tonight there was a guy who looked just like him and It was kind of the first time I thought about him. This guy unfortunately was married, I looked for the ring, lol.

In January I�m going to get back online . Maybe I�m a masochist, but maybe I�ll get lucky

G,

I think it's great that your daughter is doing well! That's really what it's all about. As a parent you can take anything thrown at you as long as your children are ok.

To Don's point I went out on a couple dates last week with a woman who waited 14 years after D to start dating again.

I've mentioned a few times that my best friend hasn't dated in 15 years and he is one of the happiest people I know. He focuses on his career, kids and hobbies. I asked him about it the other day and he said I have had two relationships and neither of them was very fun for me lol.

I know OLD can be rough but it really is the best way to go out on dates. I had my first flat out no show on Sunday. No text, no I'm sorry, radio silence.

As for the other guy my guess is it was a temp check and you will be hearing from him again soon.

Hey, LH! Thanks! The kiddo was the one thing i did right, no doubt.

I couldn�t imagine being totally single for that long, this woman has gots needs! But my short hiatus is needed right now. And there really is no other way than OLD. I hope to have the same success as others have had, eventually.

Actually, at work this morning I saw my friend who was my rehab aide when I was getting my PT. I became friendly with his and my PT who is his girlfriend and they are now my coworkers. Anyways, some know I had a crush on him, but he is inappropriately young. But he is such an incredibly good guy. And adorable. Anyways, I had mentioned she got into the city fire department ( the inner city, career, not volunteer FD) my ex- the FF is for the same city. Anyways, he still works here per diem so we were having a convo about him going out with his new buddies in the academy. I told him to never forget me and hook me up if he had an available FF buddy! Seriously though, if I was 10 years younger...... this guy is like the perfect dude. But he is very happy with his girlfriend who is amazing.

I�m pretty sure online guy was temp checking to see if I was still available for sometime in the future when he gets his crap together. He shouldn�t hold his breath.

I�ve though about texting thanksgiving wishes to M.

But I know the wise choice is not to. Although I think about his family often.

Almost done with work here. It�s been a crazy day. The food wasn�t all that good either.

There is always next year I guess

Originally Posted by Ginger1

I�ve though about texting thanksgiving wishes to M.

Yep. Channel your inner Disney Princess and sing "Let It Go!"

I completely understand. I've found myself wondering in the past few days how B and the grand-kids are doing. And this despite being pretty happy with how things are going in my current relationship. I think that it's this time of year that makes pretty much everyone think about those they care / cared about. The hard part is letting go of the a past that does indeed hold happy memories along with the less so.

Personally I disagree that OLD is the only way to meet people but then my situation is very different than your's in many many ways.

Happy Thanksgiving to you, your daughter, and the scruffy mutt lurking for anything to drop to the floor.

Thanks Andrew. I certainly sad and saw myself in a much different place this thanksgiving. I pictured myself with them. I really thought that�s where I would be

My coworkers felt bad I was going home alone after work. I got some invites, lol. I did have invites here, I just had to get home to my dog.

Being home alone in an empty house on thanksgiving is a little more lonely than I anticipated. But I got beer, the dog, and will be making myself French fries for dinner.

God, that sounds so looser-eeee

Seriously? How did this become my life? A lifetime of only half of the thanksgivings with my daughter and when I don�t have her, I�m completely alone laying on my couch after work?

It wasn�t supposed to be this way. Not even close .

G,

I get it. I did the same thing tonight. I wish I had the magical answer for you but I do not. Keep your chin up and keep pushing through and I am sure things will get better.

I slept like cr@p last night, I ran out of my sleeping med and my dog pretty much drove me crazy all night. I�m a sleep deprived mother due to my toddler dog.

Around 9pm last night I got a text from OWW. She wished me a happy thanksgiving ( my ex did not, however) and she hoped I got time to relax. I didn�t respond. My mood was not good and I actually got kind of pi$$ed at her. There I am home alone with my daughter while I split my holidays with YOU, and you want to wish me a happy one?

I replied not too long ago and simply wished her a happy thanksgiving as well. She wrote back �thanks! D12 helped and got to spend time with her cousins, it was great� I wanted to punch her in the godd@m face through the phone. I think she senses she is not secure in her relationship and is trying to p!ss me off and keep me close at the same time to �watch� me. Sorry woman, I don�t want you husband. He�s recycled trash. I�d be alone forever first. It was balsy to say what she did.

D12 and I decorated the tree, we are going to put more lights outside, order Chinese for dinner and watch a Christmas movie. My friends invited us over for thanksgiving #2, but she really doesn�t want to go. She wants to stay home and have one on one time with me. She can be a homebody. She�s going back to her dads tomorrow and I think she just wants to be at her home.

Lord, please just get me through this holiday season.

Originally Posted by LH19

I know OLD can be rough but it really is the best way to go out on dates. I had my first flat out no show on Sunday. No text, no I'm sorry, radio silence.

I really wish I would have had the time to comment earlier when I read some of these posts but TG got in the way - which is a good thing, at least for me. Anyhow, I had to laugh at this one, OLD is the best way to go out on dates and to prove that point you tell us how you were stood up and ghosted. I'm sorry but with each passing day OLD is getting worse and worse and it's been bad for a long time already. There are so many things that start off good in life and then get corrupted and OLD is just another of them. It's just a matter of time until people start realizing that and OLD goes the way of the newspaper personal ads. I'm sorry but by and large the quality of people is just really bad - case in point in LH19's example. Yes, a few people find someone - or at least in the early going think they have. But I'm sorry, there are just soooooo many bad, broken people and then there are so many married, or in Rs and then there are all of the scammers. I'm not saying maybe try OLD but to make that your number one or only goto - I think you are just going to keep getting what you've been getting. LH19 by now has had to have dated, what 25 different women - at least from OLD? And how is that working for you? The old saying of doing the same thing and expecting different results. You might get more dates but are they good dates????

I really think in person is much better as you can at least see what you are getting. Or if you do try OLD - move to a coffee or single drink meet and greet right away - just as soon as you can. I don't want to disparage my friends and the more I find out about this guy (though I've known he has issues from a long time now) the more amazing it is to watch. He's D'd from his first wife, has a son now 10 or 11 I think from a former GF. Has a current girlfriend who he's cheating on with someone else. Oh, but that is evidently not enough as I happened to be with him for a few days and saw like a dozen times as he got on Tinder or Bumble or one of those (I've never used any so I'm not positive which brand it was) but I am positive that it was some OLD as he was swiping left and right like a mad man - like in seconds! How flipping sad - but really how sad for these women. But he must be good at fooling them because they come around and his GF even though deep down she knows and has caught him 4 times that I'm aware of, she still stays. That was a long story - but THAT is what is all too common on OLD. This is the type of guy more than not that you will find. And if it's not the cheater it's the guy who is not ready or is just looking for a hook up or on and on. It's just the land of misfits and to say it's the best way to go - I'm sorry, I just can't let that one fly. I think in person is still the best way to go - it clearly has been for me - though I have nothing to write home about there but compared to OLD...

Originally Posted by kml

Give 20S a couple of books - He�s Just Not That Into You and Why Men Love
B!tches.

That came from Andrew's thread but I had to move it here and will hopefully (I'm really going to try) write more about it on my own rather dormant thread. But, Ginger, have you read this book? If not, YOU MUST - I mean you totally have to!!! I had heard about it for a long time but didn't know anything. For whatever reason, the curiosity got me and I looked it up and found a free 25 page preview online. OMG. It is great!!!! And Ginger it fits you like a glove. Not many books speak to me and hit me like DB or DR did but this one comes close - even though it's written for women. It almost ties together and brings full circle Divorce Busting/Remedy, and even the Coach's book in a little way. They all reinforce the same themes - just from a slightly different focus.

To start with, the title is somewhat misleading. In fact the author starts out explaining what she means by Bitches. It's not what you think. She is not advocating being a bitch in the way we think of it - like the office bitch or the C word or something. It's not even close. She is talking being a doormat versus being a self assured and confident woman that any man would want - take it or leave it. Then she tells you why acting the way some women act totally turns men off.

Even though it's written for women, it so much reinforced and validated for me what I feel the way i do. I would very likely date, move in with and perhaps even marry the woman she is describing and advocating for in the book - ME!!!! That's saying something. But the many woman that turn me off over 30 plus years, some of the things they said and did are word for word written in the book. The DR and DB books did the same - it was as if MWD was writing about my wife and me - it's the same with this book. It totally vaidates to me why I feel the way I do and it's not all me - it's very much how some woman act and what they do. Then when I find a bitch, i'm engaged and stay engaged. I can't advocate it enough and to whatever extent I can, I am mandating you must read this book Ginger. It's an order!!! LOL I think you'll see yourself all through it and see why at least possibly you keep saying these guys tell you that you are great just something is missing then marry the next woman they date. She talks about exactly this in the book and why it keeps happening. She talks about why guys lose interest and what woman do to make it happen.

Like I said, I hope to write more on my threat soon as I think this book is THAT good. For you Ginger, just read the easy to find free chapters online. You'll even get a huge amount from that and I"m betting you'll want to read the rest - which you can pick it up for like $10 bucks. It will be the best ten dollars you spend. READ THE BOOK!!!!

Originally Posted by Ginger1

My coworkers felt bad I was going home alone after work. I got some invites, lol. I did have invites here, I just had to get home to my dog. Being home alone in an empty house on thanksgiving is a little more lonely than I anticipated. But I got beer, the dog, and will be making myself French fries for dinner.

I don't know if this is depression doing this or what but Ginger you've got to break out of it. Back to drinking and eating crappy - and then you will tell us next week you are two pounds heavier and how much you hate it. It's a vicious cycle that you really have to break out of. You've got people reaching out to you but you won't accept their offers. Why? The dog is the oldest dodge in the world. I hear all of the time when someone doesn't want to do something, or a party is lame and they want to leave "Oh we've got to get home to the dogs" yet when the party is a gang buster the dogs will be fine for a few more hours. I know you have friends you could have called or texted (not guys you used to date) but others. Why don't you do it? BTW - she talks about this behavior too in the book - a bitch would never do this.

Again, I don't want to be unsympathetic as perhaps I've been there. You feel bad but you just can't bring yourself to go to a party, or meet up with friends or accept whatever offer friends have given you - whether it be to join them for TG, or even just for pie and a glass of wife after their dinner (there I go contradicting myself on the diet comments earlier - you hypocrite Don) or a weekend getaway or trip or a vacation or whatever!!! You've got to stop doing the same thing. You've tried the couch and OLD route - why not at least give it a try to get out with some GFs or accept invites to things where you will be out meeting real people?

I know I'm being really 2X4'y here but you've got to get out of this rut. Start by accepting what your friends are offering. Don't pull back to your safe place or familiar place on the couch. You've got to GAL whenever you can and when little G is gone and you have nothing else to do - it's the perfect time to say yes to invites. Stop making excuses. Just please give it a try. Or at least if you've going to be on the couch, read "Why Men Love Bitches"

Dang I write too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Must be because I want better for you!

I don�t have too much time to respond and I only skimmed and I will go back and read more later, but something caught my eye and I just had to respond.

I lost weight this thanksgiving! First year of my life! I did not eat until I was stuffed, I barely ate anything at all. I had oven fries for dinner with a little truffle oil. That�s it. A few bites of the cafeteria thanksgiving dinner, zero cake or pie, and one beer.Usually I�m stuffed to the gills and pretty tipsy, so I Was actually putting thanksgiving down as a win on my mindful eating journey. Don�t take that away from me! It was the highlight of this thanksgiving!

And yes, I�ve read those books.

Ok, now I have more time. I did have an invite for thanksgiving. But the dog was alone 8 hours in a crate and I paid the price. Anymore and I wouldn�t have gotten a wink of sleep. It would have been even more awful than it already was. . It�s a real thing. Definitely not an excuse. And if I didn�t work, I would have been there.

Did you read the posts where I have a social event every week before Christmas? I even have 2 next week. I�m out there still living. I still make it to the gym twice a week. And am going to the gym with a friend/coworker I haven�t seen in a while on Tuesday. Great woman, gorgeous, and strong. We are both single and in very similar positions. I�m getting out there as much as a single mom can with a full time job. And some days I am just so depleted of energy, I just can�t. Or I just don�t want to. I�m tired.

And what I take from the books is that I�m way too accommodating and eager to please . I refuse to be someone I�m not, but those things I have learned I need to pull back on. I know in the first situation where I was a FWB for years and I wanted something more, I made myself even more unattractive by continually going back to that situation. I�m much better at writing guys off when they aren�t interested. When they aren�t interested. It�s unattractive to me. And with M, well, he said what he said, but for the first half he was very interested. Very. And it took me a while to figure out he lost the interest because once I would realize it, he would go and be interested again.

Well, I�m single now. Not seeing anyone or entertaining anything. And when I do, I will recognize lack of interest and stop being so accommodating and people pleasing. I took a big step on that direction with the last guy.

Yo Donny just to clarify I have met people out. Also, someone I got a number from out could also stiff me. 1 stiff out of 25 is 4% so that�s not bad. I do agree though and now I get right to the point for the meet up. Don�t base it off me because I�m picky and probably not even ready to date.

Keep all options open is my vote.

OLD is the best shot in my situation. ExNg I met at a party and was my friends beat friend, and FF I met at the gym. And the guy I had my FWB I met him online, I guess you can say, but not OLD. But I need finding a guy I can do from
Home , because I am with my kid most of the time. But I�m open to anyone I might meet. I had a date from a guy I met at a bar one night. And the second my hot FF friend says �I�ve got a guy for you� I will certainly be open to it.

And I agree with LH. Also, say we walk into a party and skim the eligible single people. You know what we are doing ??? Visibly swiping left or right. It�s all the same in a group of strangers online or in person.

Originally Posted by LH19

Don�t base it off me because I�m picky and probably not even ready to date.

Ha! You keep making my point for me!!!! You're probably not even ready to date - yet there you are OLD. That is my EXACT point. It's not like all of the guys (or gals) are bad or crazy or whatever - or that you are casually dating. It's that when you add up the sum total, the number of both men and women OLD that are truly in a healthy place, looking for a serious R, etc. - or are of the quality and character or in the same sitch as Ginger compose a small fraction of those with an OLD profile - that's what I'm saying. Yet the marketing and adverting would have you believe that if you are single and looking for someone - the place to go is OLD where everyone is just like you - mentally healthy, looking for love and ready for it. That's what many think and what they want us to think. But the truth is far different with only a handful falling into that group. It's almost like Ashley Madison or AFF or the others where they tried and successfully lead lonely, horny, desperate, guys to sign up only to find there were hardly any real women there and they were paying people to pose as women to keep the guys trying and paying. I'm just telling you, it's a matter of time until OLD is fully exposed for the truth of what it is - and what it's not. It does work now and then for some people - i admit it does. It also works pretty well as a hook up spot. But that's not what G is looking for.

Originally Posted by LH19

Keep all options open is my vote.

Totally agree with you there buddy. I would add to simply use OLD as a way to setup a very early on in person meeting - just like you would if you met someone out someplace. But don't sit on the phone or text for hours prior to the meeting - something "WMLB" totally advocates as does the Coach.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

And what I take from the books is that I�m way too accommodating and eager to please . I refuse to be someone I�m not, but those things I have learned I need to pull back on.

I'd very much agree with the too accommodating and eager to please. You'd think guys would love it but I can tell you just from my perspective (and her's) it can be the kiss of death - and has been with me. I don't think it's at all about being someone you are not, but just changing how you do things and perhaps the biggest thing is valuing yourself or as she says living like you are total package prize and if the guy doesn't see it, that's his problem and you are not even giving it a second thought. Guy, what guy!

Originally Posted by Ginger1

And with M, well, he said what he said, but for the first half he was very interested. Very. And it took me a while to figure out he lost the interest because once I would realize it, he would go and be interested again.

She talks about this exact thing how guys in the beginning (and 6 months is still the beginning) might be very interested but how dynamics and behaviors can kill that attraction. If I remember, it was when you challenged him and distanced yourself that he would become interested again. It's again straight out of the book. I think your actions is what brought his interest back around. However, I have to add, I still don't think he was the right guy for you in the long term anyhow. I just know that had my ExW had read this book and done these actions, I would not have lost interest about 6 months in as well or perhaps we would have not got married - or I may have stepped up because I was required to - rather than finally trying to step up after it was too late. I was never required to so I didn't. That's a small example of what I mean by how this all comes full circle to DBing.

Ginger, I'm not trying to put you on the defensive, which I know is just a human reaction if someone comes at you or criticizes. I'm really not trying to be a jerk about it or be intensive because i know you are hurting. But you seem to have an answer for all of it - yet you are still miserable, needing medication to sleep and moving to depression - so clearly what you are doing is not working. I'm by no means a dieting expert and if you did lose weight for the week - that's great! You and i just both know the way to lose weight is not to starve yourself and then eat fries and drink beer. The way is through three balanced, healthy meals each day. And I did see that you have things lined up in the future - great and good for you! That's another win. I was responding to your comments about THIS weekend and last night. I just see people reaching out. I didn't even take your Ex's W as trying to be mean. I totally get this is a way different sitch given what happened. But I'd at least consider she, right or wrong, is thinking that was 10 years ago and no longer a factor and she too sees you are struggling and feels bad. Call me a gullible idiot and I may be wrong - I just think she was trying to be nice.

Perhaps I'm not helping and if I'm making it worse I'm very sorry and will stop. At least I tried. I'm glad you've read the books. Not sure how long ago it was but maybe you should read it again. I just see you doing so much of what she says not to do - even with the latest guy from OLD - that's all. She got all of this by interviewing hundreds of guys and I can just tell you this guy (me) totally sees what she is saying as i'm very turned off by the examples she gave and very interested in what she calls the bitch - just like those 100 guys. I don't try to be - it's just in the DNA - and that includes with women that many people would not find very attractive - it's how they carry and handle themselves.

I'll just shut up now and give you a virtual hug. I know you are going to get through this! Hopefully soon.

((((G))))

I don�t have any great advice or words of wisdom but there are plenty of other people here who give far better advice than I ever could anyway, so I�ll just let them handle it.

I did want to speak to a couple of specifics, though. You say you haven�t tried to make girlfriends and lament it is harder to do than find a suitable dating partner but then mention you enjoy doing various outings with your coworkers. To me, that�s a start. I mean sure, you may wish to keep personal vs. work life somewhat private but that doesn�t mean you can�t build an actual bond and friendship with someone at work. Keep looking for new hobbies as well. You never know when a friendship might arise from a cooking class, a stroll through a museum, a beer or wine tasting....whatever. There are a lot of ways to put yourself out there and you just have to think outside the box a bit. You�re a smart lady, so I know you can do it. What worries me for you when I read your posts is that when people suggest ideas, you respond with some version of �yes, but...�. G, I know this is a particularly rough time of year, but please try to find a way to relax and take it easy on yourself. You keep beating yourself up with your own comments about how long you�ve been single, how you thought you would�ve found someone by now, how everyone you�ve really been into has gotten serious with the person who came after you. G, GIRL, cut yourself some slack!!!!! Those are heavy crosses to bear. Celebrate YOUR success, YOUR accomplishments, and the amazing reports you received about little G and how well she�s doing. Sister, that is ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL you. I just read something recently (something I�d actually seen numerous times) about not comparing your life with anyone else�s because yours will likely pale in comparison but mainly because you know your own internal strife but know only the external view of the other life you�re comparing to. So, again, cut yourself some slack.

Another point: I agree totally with Don about OWW�s intentions not necessarily being meant in a harsh or negative way. It is sometimes a bit hard for me to read some of your feelings towards her because I identify with her to an extent. I was a stepmom who never had my own kids so I was stepmoming another woman�s children. Now granted, our circumstances were different in that I wasn�t the OW. In my situation, they had been divorced for several years before I came along. I never once tried to usurp the role of the girls� mom because they have a mom. On the contrary, I encouraged their relationship with their mother, despite the fact that I didn�t like her. I, obviously don�t know OWW�s side of the story but even just reading yours, I don�t get the impression that she�s trying to be mean. In fact, I�ll spin a bit differently from Don and say my guess as to her motive is that she actually looks up to you as a mom and wants your approval of her skills as well, so in that vein, she�s sharing with you how wonderful and helpful your daughter has been and that she�s having a good time as a way to reassure you that little G is ok and that she (OWW) is capable of doing ok with her. I�m not trying to tell you how to feel or anything but being a stepparent, particularly if you don�t have kids of your own, is TOUGH because there�s a lot more scrutiny by the parents and it�s almost like you can�t do anything right no matter what. I truly don�t think she meant any harm.

Having said all that, I�ll just finish with this: you�re amazing so lighten up on yourself and start trying to see yourself as we all see you.

Hey G. First of all, Happy Thanksgiving...sorry it was so lonely for you.

So, let me just get to the point. You know when you were a kid and you'd see this big puddle. And the only way over it was to back up and get a running start....

You've got a great, big ole puddle in front of you. It is made up of stresses over money and work and the house and dog and little G. And you are trying to get over it by just jumping...and that will only make you really wet.

The way over it is to back way up..and figure out stuff. You are on your way...I can see it..you just need to do a little more thinking thru your stuff.

The way you have been doing things hasnt been working for you, right? Your life isnt what you want it to be. I so get that because mine isnt either. I keep trying to get thru stuff and then more cr@p happens and I lose traction.

I know you know you are blessed in many ways...a wonderful, happy daughter, a great career, owning your own home good friends, etc.

There are some things you feel are lacking. I get that. A nice guy would certainly add to your life...though he wouldnt complete it. There are many unmarried, unattached women who are extremely happy with their lives.

But I get it, you want someone to share your life with. If you do, you have to do something different. OLD is one way..there are others.

Going places where men are likely to be..be it meetups, home depot, food stores, a sport, etc are others. I know you dont have a lot of time, but, you need to be creative and carve out some time for that.

The other thing is that you have to start to see yourself differently. What you put out there, you get back, right? The law of attraction and all that.

A confident, strong woman is a turn on..people can sense it and seek that out....no matter where you are.

As hard as it is, try to put your past luck with men behind you. Make 2020 your year to shine. Walk with confidence and show the world who you really are and what you have accomplished through your attitude.

I can tell you when you do, things will change. You have to believe what we see in you all the way through to your bones.

Life can change in an instant. How you feel and what your life looks like now will not be how it always is. You will not always feel as you do now.

As always, I am rooting you on...and love you.

Originally Posted by Dawn70

I don�t have any great advice or words of wisdom but there are plenty of other people here who give far better advice than I ever could anyway, so I�ll just let them handle it.

Don�t sell yourself short Dawn. You provided and often provide great advice and are a good balance to someone like my more harsh tough love advice. Blending all of our comments and suggestions together nets a pretty awesome sum total.

Let�s stop bashing online dating because it�s not supposed to be online dating, it�s just online meeting. And if you�re out of your 20�s, and don�t work around the opposite sex, you�re likely to meet more potential dates online than in real life.

Take me - divorced in my 50�s, the only single men I meet at work are patients (absolute no-no!). In the ten years since my divorce I�ve dated several men but only ONE that I met in real life (Mr Big Lots, who picked me up while I was shopping in Big Lots. ) And although he was cute and sexy, I�m not sure I would have dated him if I�d screened him through OKCupid, because we really didn�t have much in common.

Yes there are scammers online - there are scammers and pickup artists at your local bar too. I don�t drink much and any guy my age who is still hanging out in bars picking up women is probably an alcoholic. I met some men through my band class and later performing but most were married or otherwise not a match - just friends, all of them. No handsome single fan has ever introduced himself from the audience when I�m performing. I�ve never met a potential date when attending concerts.

So really, my best source of dates has been online. At least I can usually screen them for basic literacy, political leanings, interests and hobbies, smoking status etc. That�s a lot more than I could screen for in a bar.

�Divorced in my 50�s� - I mean I was divorced in my 50�s. In my 60�s now.

What are the alternatives to online dating? Seems like you screen out basic things there as KML mentions more so than in real life. I really have no experience either way so just curious.

As unlucky I�ve been in OLD, I can�t bash it. Like Kml said, I work in a department of 100% women. The doctors in my hospital are old and married, and the two I would entertain are married. One of those is my actual doctor. And I already went on a date with one through OLD, and we all know how that turned out. I�ve met 2 guys at a mar, one very early on, it was a 2 month fling, he was much younger and hot and that was it. The other we went on a real date and there was zero chemistry.

I�ve tried the Home Depot and the one time I found a guy who was hot and we locked eyes, upon closer inspection it was my coworker. He was shopping for his new house with his fianc� . Men don�t just ask you out in the grocery store anymore, because women think any random guy is some creep.
I got asked out once in a bookstore, but the guy was creepy.

Aside from mutual friends and the such, there really isn�t much of a way. And most of them were married. And there were 2 who were married who had the audacity to hit on me, and one actually stalked me.

The odds outside of OLD at this stage in life are slim. We aren�t in college anymore where people are just single looking to mingle .

M was almost real. For a while he was real. He was a win. But like don said, and I guess LH proved the point, often, I�m running into the ones who think they are ready to date, but totally aren�t. Not over their ex�s. Still have the door open for them to come back. Never dealt with the anger towards their ex�s. They are still embroiled in their exes. I just really want to find a guy who has moved on and is ready to love again. Like J�s Dr. makes it easy for him to be a man, I would love a guy who makes it easy to be a woman.

I appreciate all the advice and all the perspective. My rejection of suggestions are only of ones I have tried and failed. I have an �excuse�. But really, it�s all things I have tried. Because we all know I try and I am open. They just didn�t work for me in the past.

Tonight, my friend and I went to a paint and sip and had a lot of fun. I NEEDED to get out of the house. I was researching all of this stuff I could do alone, but I found nothing that excited me to do alone. Fun stuff to do with someone else, yes, but not alone. But I�m glad my friend went out with me. It was to just have fun, not to meet men.

I wish more than anything I could be that person who is ok being alone for a very long time. And I have been alone for a very long time. But I am not that person who can be happy with it forever. I love intimacy, emotional and physical. I am a homebody at times and want to be a homebody with someone else. It�s not the same alone. I keep going back to me and M�s las night together. I was laying wrapped in his arms on the couch while we were having a running commentary about shark tank. In that moment, I was so in love with him. I NEED that in my life.

But I went out tonight. I had fun.

On a different note, I got last minute hair appointment but it was at the time of D12�s dentist appointment. The ex agreed to come get her early and take her. Well, she was MAD. He�s never taken her there and said I needed to take her and i was being selfish. She clearly relies on me for this stuff. I pretty much told her �too bad, dad is a parent and he can handle this� and everything was fine.

I�m trying here. I�m really trying. My friend feels I really need to put myself out there again and get back online . Actually all my friends do. But I�m sticking to my promise, because perhaps in this state, what I put out there won�t yield me good results . I want to put out who I really am. A woman who has been handling her own crap for many years and is ready for something REAL. Not some filler BS u til they get their issues handled and move on. I�m too good for that. Way too good for that.

G,

I don't see why it is a bad thing to keep all options open. In the grand scheme of things does it really matter how you meet Mr. Right?

I think it's a safe thing to assume that if a guy is divorced for less then two years and it wasn't his idea to get divorced then that door most likely could be open. You see I am looking at dating another way in which I am hoping to meet the woman who will slam that door shut forever. That's what happened when J met the Doc. If I don't get that feeling on one or two dates I let it go not to waste any more of her time. I interview quite a few people for my job and I feel I am a good judge of character and I usually know early on.

Sometimes it's so hard to absorb, apply and understand things we learn on our journey. Everything is happening exactly the way it's supposed to and people come and go in our lives to teach us lessons. M taught you that your needs are important. I don't think you realize it yet but you're getting stronger and it shows.

ahhhh dang.. hang in there G. Focus on yourself this month, figuring out what you want and then go back at it in the new year. You got it!

LH- how can a woman you�ve been on 2 dates and don�t know be the one to slam the door on your ex wife you still desire reconciliation with? There is no woman that powerful. If they make you feel that way in one or two dates, then you were done with your ex and you didn�t even know it. Because these women are perfect strangers at that point.

Or...... maybe someone can pique your interest to get further to know to the point you might want to slam the door on reconciliation. However, usually at that point, if you decide that she still doesn�t do that for you, that woman is probably invested. And take it from me....... it really stinks to be the woman who went in desiring no reconciliation with their ex.

Guys stick around me for a little longer because I am indeed an excellent girlfriend. DB has strengthened my tools to be a great partner. And I am. Men go farther than they should because I am A woman only a fool would leave. It�s a curse, lol

The men I date are about 2 years out. Pretend to be in a good ready place, but totally are not. Unfortunately for me, at my age, most are newly divorced. Not for as long as I have been. They are bitter about custody, alimony, etc.

I am indeed to open to all options. I just know which ones are most likely to yield results. And in my wildest dreams, I meet a guy at least 5 years out, over there ex�s , not bitter and is ready to treat me like a queen. As I treat my men like Kings. I can�t find myself settling for any less again. M was definitely a lesson in that.

Then I just need to push through it until it happens. I always pay for the first meet up and I have only viewed one as a complete waste of time because she lied in her profile. I'm not bitter, I got the family home and got a great deal on CS. I just for whatever reason can't completely shut off 24 years of history. I'm hoping that my latest development is going to help push me in that direction.

There is no doubt you're on the right path and you will get there I am absolutely sure of it.

LH, I know that you aren�t bitter. And I hope that you get to that place where you want to get to that 3rd date. And some woman comes in to rock your world!

I went to the gym yesterday . I love that hour because I think of nothing else except not collapsing, lol. Breathing takes effort. But my endurance is already getting better and I can see my muscle definition coming back. Bought myself a healthy lunch, made a healthy dinner. Pretty much lazed around on my couch otherwise. I�m off today and tomorrow and D12�s school was cancelled for a snow day so she is on her way back to my house from her dads.

Soooo. I downloaded the meet up app. There were some things interesting to me. Others that were, were on my custody days. But I joined a lot of groups. So, I�ll keep my eyes out. I really do have limited time for organized events. But I�m going to try.

I�ve been seeing so much of FF and his woman on social media. Because his sister is madly in love with this guy who has come into her and her sons life like a night in shining armor. They all are doing one big happy family things. And she posts about how wonderful her man is nearly every day. I�ve realized social media is not healthy for me right now. I just keep seeing these big happy families and gathering and love and all that Jazz. And you can�t help but feel worse when sitting on your couch alone. Wondering why I can�t have that. And thinking about how close I came. I think I need a little hiatus. It would be good for me.

And my ex entered my dreams yet again. I mean it�s been years. And I hate the way he is entering. This time he asked me to marry him again because I was always the one for him. I accepted! And I couldn�t tell my friends because they would beat the sense into me. I have no desire for this man. But I think there is a small part of me who wants to hear he made a mistake. Not that I even want him back at all ever. I think my ego is just bruised lately .

How�s that for some raw honesty?

Doing everything I can to protect my mental health.

Keep plugging G! I know the holidays are hard............

I'm sorry the holidays are so tough. I hope you have success with the meet up groups. I know I have seen other people mention those here and I always wished I lived in a large enough metro area that I could participate in some of those when I was single. Most importantly, just take care of you and little G.

And Ginger is starting to get her Mo-Jo back! Great to see. I kinda knew you would and also knew that you'd come around on some of the suggestions as I've seen that from you time and again. You're quick reaction is to defend and say why it can't be done but then you think about it a bit and days to weeks to months later you are doing it - like trying meetups, etc. Gym, diet, friends, meet-ups - all great stuff right there.

As for the OLD - I guess I am kinda bashing it but it's just how I see it - especially for me. Sure it's better than nothing, I'll certainly give it that and if someone has absolutely no other outlet, yeah give it a try. Or give it a try along with other things. I just think that even if you can't meet people at work or other places, the time spent OLD could be spent at a meetup or new hobby or class or something else.

I'm also speaking mostly for me. Maybe it's worse for guys? I just know that in general people will do and say things online that they never would think of doing in person. Sure you can find out things about your potential date OLD - or can you? In person they can't make themselves look 10 years younger or 50 pounds lighter - as happens with old photos OLD. Plus talk is cheap. They can say how hilarious they are but in person they have to prove it. I just think that you have to go in figuring that 7 our of 10 people are not what they say they are - perhaps 8 or even 9 out of 10. It's just what I've seen and heard from so many.

I guess in the end there is no "best" way to date. I'm just saying that if OLD keeps NOT working, why keep doing it? It's worked somewhat for you KML - not at all for many others - including me. And for me I actually felt worse after trying while getting the same results - actually I've gotten better results off-line. That's just what I'm trying to say.

My last thought was about trying to find a guy who actually is looking for an LTR and will show that early on and such. Again, I hate to be all huge on the why men love bitches book but it just all makes so much sense and I guess validates how I've felt or even explains why I feel like I do. She totally says to NOT try to vet guys for LTR. Just go out date and have fun. It's a similar mantra of the Coach. I've experienced it! I remember an otherwise great potential match (at least I thought so) from OLD some 10+ years ago. She really checked a lot of boxes until she told me she would not even consider dating someone (once) unless she thought it might go somewhere. I was out. Who knows what might have happened had she NOT said that. It also clearly dawned on me that the women I've really been into perhaps all my life turned me down now and then and did not come off as wanting something or too eager. Again it's straight from the book. I was like, Oh yeah, that's why I was so interested in the lady from AK. She was very matter fact of saying, "sorry I'm busy" but yet would come to me now and then to initiate so I knew there was some interest. Even wild girl went much farther than I thought it would and may have kept going longer - well until her true colors came out and wanted to move in with me like she did with the guy that came after me - but my point is, yes I'm actually going to get to the point, Ginger it will be the kiss of death if you try to vet to only the serious guys - and here's why - any guy might fall for you and become a serious guy even if that's not what he wanted to happen. It sort of started to happen to me with both these women and may have gone much farther had things kept going. Then all of a sudden, a guy like me will say, what in the hell just happened I fell in love with this girl and I can't let her go. That's what you need to have happen. That's how you control the narrative. You don't go out with him all the time, you don't allow him to control things by saying he can only see you one day and then you keep that day open to accommodate him. You don't text or talk everyday - at least in the early going and 6 months is still the early going. That's how a guy falls in love. If they feel they have to defend and come up with lame excuses as to why they can't get together, he's too busy being defensive and back peddling to fall.

When you do get back out there - put everything within you to just be casual about it. Don't worry about the future. You'll see soon enough if he's for you but the thing is, the less you want him, the less you accommodate him, the less you do for him, the less you chase him, the more he will want you. I'm totally an example of that.

Hopefully you'll continue here with a great week!

I just want to say that I was in no way putting down OLD. I don't have any frame of reference because I have never been on there, but, I do have two friends who married having met on a site. I also have heard many horror stories.

It is like that in life, too. I was just trying to get you to think outside the box some just to shake things up a bit as you are in a bit of a bad mindset right now.

Sometimes the way to climb out of it is to do something different, ya know? And sometimes when you keep thinking the same things over and over, they become a sort of reality.

So, you have to try to let go of what you thought you had and think about what you want...by that I mean, what you really want out of a relationship. What you will accept, what you wont, etc.

And then..just live your life. I know you... you will pick yourself up and get back on track. You are already doing it...

Just keep moving forward.

By the way, I met R in a meetup...and I wasnt even looking...was just looking for women friends.

As far as your dreams of your ex.....ewwww...lol...just kidding...kinda. LOL

I have let go of wanting an apology or anything like that. It matters not at all to me. I know my truth. And anything coming out of his mouth,holds no weight for me.

Go to the website for Live from Here (NPR radio show) and pull up this week�s program. Just after 17 minutes in, there�s a skit about The Midlife Crisis Hotline, 1-800-STOP ME. Pretty funny.

So Like ginger, I�m a busy single mom with a young one. I love OLD. It just makes things easier and faster

In the old days to find a pair of shoes I would have to go to tons of stores and hope they have my size and style. Now I can go on line type in my size and heel height and tons of choices come up. Sure I have to send some back. But it�s just so much easier. When you go to meet ups let�s say a hiking meet up - (never been but I have seen the groups walking around) they usually consist of a bunch of old women. You might see a few guys - but out of such a small group the only thing you can guarantee is that you both like hiking. And it�s awkward. And that�s because the only people that have time for that stuff is people who are retired, not working or have kids that are older or maybe younger people with no responsibilities (that usually won�t come back) . Not ideal matches. I don�t see why people think this works better for people whose time is a luxury- like ginger.

. At least with online dating you know that they are looking for some sort of meet up with the opposite sex. In a meetup or bar they might just be out with friends or cause they love hiking. And you get less of a pool and less of a chance. Personally, I have such limited time right now. I wouldn�t want to waste it doing things with strangers when what I really want is a relationship. I go hiking with my son instead.

There is no shame in saying I want a relationship either. I think a lot of us here recite the whole �you have to be ok by yourself before you can be happy with another�. Or you shouldn�t need someone to feel complete. Historically and from an evolutionary stand point- mans and women have partnered up. It�s natural to want to do so. And each partnership has its own set of dynamics that you can�t possibly prepare for. Wasting months or years on self reflection isn�t really healthy either. I would argue friends with benefits arrangements to meet our sexual needs while self reflecting is just as unhealthy.

Don - I get that as a female it�s best to be the one pursued. I think that�s the only way it works. The guy has to be attracted enough to pursue. But your advice to Ginger is geared forwards getting a guy like you. No offense - but ginger (and myself) don�t want avoidant guys that only want and appreciate women that are playing games. We both want guys that believe in love and marriage and relationships and they are definitely out there. You liked wild girl - who was a mess. Girls that play games like that are not great matches down the line. Which took you time to realize. They are usually more clingy, desperate, and manipulative- they just know the game. Or maybe guys that go for them have there own dysfunctions. Ginger needs a guy that�s just wise enough and healthy enough to appreciate her. That�s the problem. There�s a lot of messed up people and it�s hard to find someone at equal levels.

How refreshing to just meet someone where you can both just be vulnerable about what you want and who you are is better long time.

ALL of my relationships that have gone anywhere, going back to my late teens were initiated by the woman. Generally speaking, they all went well.

I know that I absolutely don't speak for most of the guys here, but I find a woman who is interested in me even prior to me being interested in her, very attractive. These relationships have also all started out as casual acquaintances / encounters and not me being "on the hunt". On the other hand, all of these women are people who I also found attractive / intriguing. There have been a small number who have hinted that they would be interested in me who I don't find all that interesting or who have what is in my mind a significant flaw like a drinking issue who I remain friendly with but am not receptive to otherwise.

Further to what JuJuB has said, one of the key differences with OLD vs meeting organically is that there is no pussy-footing (or so I presume) about intentions. It's right there on your profile - "looking for a relationship" or "looking to date but nothing serious". You have to - again I presume - take those statements at face value. B for example, the only person I connected to via OLD even though we'd met in person some time previously, had "looking for someone to marry" on her's. This is why it was no surprise that after a few dates that we were exploring what a future might look like.

Personally (again) I wouldn't be wasting my time on someone who said that they were just was looking for casual encounters. I've lots of friends already of both genders.

Once the initial interest has been established, I like to think that I'm an engaged person, taking an active interest in the person, making an effort to reach out and connect, initiating or responding warmly. If that's not reciprocated as was the case last fall with CL, then I back away.

Just my 2 cents.

I should just let it go. I should shut my mouth and just walk away, yet i can't. I just can't let some of these false statements stand.

Originally Posted by JujuB

I love OLD.

Said no one ever... well until juju met her latest guy and is completely intoxicated in the land of new love. I mean, really, Juju, you are the very first and only person I've ever heard who loves OLD. If it's finally worked for you with this latest guy, that's great but before that... by your own admission, not so much.

Originally Posted by JujuB

At least with online dating you know that they are looking for some sort of meet up with the opposite sex.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Further to what JuJuB has said, one of the key differences with OLD vs meeting organically is that there is no pussy-footing (or so I presume) about intentions. It's right there on your profile - "looking for a relationship" or "looking to date but nothing serious".

Again, this is simply NOT TRUE!!!! According to the Pew Research Center, "One-third of people who have used online dating have never actually gone on a date with someone they met on these sites." so let's start there - and Pew is no slacker outfit. We have seen on this very board how people put up OLD profiles and then decide it's too soon and never go on a date - or worse yet (for the other person) go on a date or two and then figure out they have made a big mistake and should not be online. I can tell you first hand one of the biggest complaints of OLD'rs is people who only seem to want a pen pal or to text with and make every excuse in the book to not ever meet. Then there are all the BOTs and scammers and cat fishers. Need I say more? If only everyone OLD were actually looking to meet someone - that would be awesome.

Originally Posted by JujuB

But your advice to Ginger is geared forwards getting a guy like you.

To start, I very much agree with you juju that there is nothing wrong with wanting an R - nothing at all, I totally agree. What I'm trying to say is how you go about trying to get it. I'm not trying to get Ginger or you to find a guy like me. What I'm saying is two-fold. First and foremost, I'm not coming up with these things on my own. I'm following the advice of New York Times best selling authors. I hold MWD in very high regard for what she has written in her books. Its the same with Sherry Argov and her best selling book. I didn't come up with or write this stuff - they did. I am only repeating what THEY have written. If you want to say they are wrong, go ahead but I strongly think you can only try to say they are wrong for you. In the case of Argov she interviewed thousands of men. Are all these men wrong too? Why would they lie to her? They actually told her the truth they very well may not tell their wives or GFs or other women. Ignore their advice and what these authors write at your own peril. I fully believe they have it correct in what they are saying and for sure Argov was told by thousands of guys what will win them over - and always being available, talking about LTR or M or children early on, accepting last minute dates, giving up hobbies, friends, and making him the center of your world much more often than not WILL NOT WORK.

As for me, I think the right woman could land me as well (after all it has happened many times before) - as avoidant as I am. I so totally need to spell this out on my own thread but my point is i don't 'think I'm as avoidant as perhaps I might have thought. It think it's just as much or even more the quality of women I've met and the neediness, clingyness of some of them. Wild Girl is one story but the woman formerly from AK was totally different. She'd be married yet today had her husband not died and was a very quality woman who didn't play games at all - at least from what I could tell in the year we long distance dated. Have you read the book Juju? You may well not agree but you might see the point I'm making much better. You can get enough of it free online to tell.

We are all a product of what we've done and our lives. Something has not worked for me so I tend to poo-poo it. Something seems to maybe finally have worked for you so now it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. And since one guy at least for now, continues to pursue and be all in with you, breaking these rules are working for you. I just hope that continues to be the case. There are no never's and no always in life. Anytime we say everyone or no one, we are most certainly wrong. There are exceptions to every rule. I'm just saying as a rule, OLD fails more than it works and as a rule, going against what MWD and Sherry Argov say in their books will result in a failed R.

Most of all, I want to keep things based in facts and in truths not in feelings, guesses and personal anecdote. I hope I'm not coming off too aggressive here - because I'm really not trying to be. I think you are a well spoken, thoughtful and educated lady JuJu. I just could not let a few of these comments stand unchallenged and want to try to keep things not to what you or I think but to statistics and research on what hundreds or thousands think and recommend. Plus I love a great debate.

And I'm very good a disagreeing and still liking and being friends with the other person.

Dang it, I wanted to put this in above. I'll quickly add it here - again from Pew Research - 2017

With opposite sex couples 11% met online while 88% met offline.
Same sex couples seem to do better with 37% meeting online and 63% meeting offline.

So evidently OLD does work for someone - just not hetros. For us, it's much closer to my 1 or 2 out of 10 stat from a few days ago. Clearly all sorts of factors go into these stats but 88% meeting offline is a landslide.

Wow, some great perspectives over here! I want to speak to them all.

First, UR, I didn�t think you were bashing online dating. But I agree, trying something else if one thing isn�t working is to try something new. I�ve been taking this time in my dating hiatus to really really think about what I am willing to accept. I do know what I want. But I�ve been pretty loose on what I am willing to accept from someone else. M did teach me that I do not need to accept any less and wanting what I want is not wrong. In the end I played the game his way and I still lost.

I do feel like I�m working up a little bit. Exercise is definitely helping. Keeping busy is helping. I�m trying to trouble shoot my issues. Trying to take tiny steps to feel better. And I�m doing it outside of having a guy to spend tome with. I�m doing it myself. I�m proud of that.

Juju, you and I think a lot alike. Love very much the same too, and want the same out of relationships. I do not have to play those games, Don. I can�t. I can make myself less accommodating, but the push and the pull and feigning disinterest . Not my thing. I could not stand the push/pull game M was playing with me. I become quiet and he comes closer, after 6 months, that dance does not have to be done anymore. And that�s when the dance started with him. I should be able to ask my boyfriend to hang out. I should expect a decent portion of his free tome he is going to want to spend with me. That I don�t need to play The Who is going to ask who out first� game anymore. That�s kids stuff. I have dated guys who can be upfront and don�t need these games. Who like to give time and attention without a front. And believe it or not, I am a lot less than most women. I am not clingy and needy. I don�t �need� it. I want it. And the guy should want it too. I go out with my girls, I like my guy to go out with his guys. You have your hobbies and I have mine. But when all is taken care of, I don�t need to play games for the rest of your attention.

Online dating : Juju has admittedly had exceptional luck and hasn�t had to deal with what I have. So I�m not surprised she loves it. It worked very very well for her with minimal frogs . I can�t say I love it, but I can say I�m thankful for it, because without it and the lifestyle I live, I�d have much less of a chance. I happen to know many couples where it has been highly successful. Many who are married and those currently in LTR. I think generally have have just been pretty unlucky in love.

Honestly though, I have friends and know people where boy likes girl, girl likes boy and they date. No silly push pull games, no doing all this intensive inner work, they just kept it simple and it works out. It is just so complicated to meet someone and have a connection and nurture it. Man, I would love that.

When I first signed on, someone pointed out how the statistics show that more women file for divorce. Which leads us to believe its women that are bailing on marriages. But no one accounted for the numerous amount of times they filed after hubby moved in with another woman. Point is statistics are skewed. Michelle wiener Davis books are great for normal marital issues but harmful for people in abusive situations - most of the people here whose spouses are actively having affairs. IIt would take a ton of peer reviewed literature for me to be convinced by some statistical figure posted.
And in relationships , there really is no formula.

Don - if you could go back in time, would you buy stocks in Match.com? I only wish I could, because it is just as good as sliced bread. I think a lot of people would too, as much as you discredit it.

I honestly love OLD. It was easy because I can�t date patients and so don�t have time as a single mom to go out and meet people. I had a lot of luck both times I was on it. Granted, the first relationship didn�t work after a year and a half, and I have no idea of the future with my current relationship. I can only hope. But OLD put me in a position where I had potential to actively meet men. Something that would be really hard for me because of my schedule. It would have taken me a long time just to find someone to go on a date with. With OLD, you can find that in a few days. So it makes the first steps easy. I get that, it�s probably better if you live in a highly populated area.

I think that you can be vulnerable with someone you like without being desperate or needy. I prefer to not initiate as I have learned that the guy values you more when they are the pursuers. But that�s just my experience. I tend to not be needy or clingy in general (My ex husband said that to gaslight) but I don�t play games either. Current boyfriend asked me early on to just spend every minute I had free for the entire weekend (not sleeping together or over). I could have played it cool and told him I had other plans and would just spend one night with him. But I really liked him and enjoyed being around him and wanted to get to know him - so no games. We spent the days together and just bonded. Had I played it cool or acted less available - he might not have felt as comfortable with me. I just went with instinct and took a risk and let myself be vulnerable (someone on my thread had recommended a ted talk about vulnerability)

That being said, I think to be successful you have to be able to recognize when the relationship is one sided. If someone�s not putting effort in- I�m not gonna pursue or make effort. I think that might be what the author is saying - but I haven�t read it. I�m naturally a bit b!tchy so I don�t need to.

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I do not have to play those games, Don. I can�t. I can make myself less accommodating, but the push and the pull and feigning disinterest . Not my thing. I could not stand the push/pull game M was playing with me. I become quiet and he comes closer, after 6 months, that dance does not have to be done anymore. And that�s when the dance started with him. I should be able to ask my boyfriend to hang out. I should expect a decent portion of his free tome he is going to want to spend with me. That I don�t need to play The Who is going to ask who out first� game anymore.

Girl I used to feel exactly this way, but honestly, the less I was needing or wanting a guy, the more interested he was in pursuing me. I still don't play games but I keep a little in reserve initially. I try not to rob the guy of the pleasure of pursuit.
I try to spend more time evaluating whether he's really someone who I could be interested in, rather than just responding to his interest, if you get what I mean.

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I am not clingy and needy. I don�t �need� it. I want it. And the guy should want it too.

And I just want to comment here, that most of the guys you have dated have seemed to have unnaturally low sex drives for young men. Maybe it's different in this generation but come on - we were having a LOT MORE sex in the 70's and 80's than what these guys seem to be willing to go for. Heck, my 60 something boyfriend with stage 4 lung cancer has a much better sex drive than most of the guys you've dated. So next time maybe pick some guy who SHOWS you (instead of just says) that he is really interested in having sex with you, and maybe more than once every couple of weeks! You're young and you deserve that! Obviously sex is not enough to base a relationship on, but if you keep going out with these low drive guys (or at least guys who don't make time for it, or who are wasting all their juices on porn, who knows?) you're always going to feel like you're missing out because that intimacy is important to you.

(And I know everyone has a different drive, there's no right answer to how often a couple should have sex, but I can't remember a single guy you've dated who has matched your interest in frequency in that regard. And if I, as a woman in her sixties, is getting laid a lot more than a youngster like you, something's wrong!)

The guys I�ve dated have had pretty decent sex drives. One had a little ED going on at first due to new meds for a fib and not having sex in 2 years.... but once he got his mojo back, he got his mojo back. M was all about it when we were together, but certainly wasn�t going out of his way for it and shamed me when I mentioned not having it as putting it. Most men would come get some instead tinker with their truck or have an 8pm bedtime. It�s a part of feeling desired for us woman. He stopped making me feel desired.

Tonight I was at a work event and I was talking to one of my divorced single coworkers and she met M because his mom was admitted to her floor. She said to me ( like everyone else does) �you guys seemed really happy� I feel embarrassed when someone says that. For one or the other reasons. Because I was dumped and I said how much I loved my boyfriend. Or because I put up a front making everyone think I was happy.. I feel like such a fool. Part of me really loved him, yet I wasn�t happy. But he was the one who dumped me. It�s so weird

Anyways, I came here to make a happy post. I feel good today today. I went back to work after 5 days off and I felt lighter. I straightened my hair today after my new haircut and everyone complimented me. Even my work crush should who is married. He came into rounds and said � hey, ho woah there! Lookin� good� he�s such a gem, I would snag him in to time if he wasn�t married. He married a woman with 3 kids and refers to all of them as his sons. They also had one together. He�s pretty amazing. Anyways, I just feel not as down.

One reason being is I reflect on my life and see hardship and sadness. Or I can reflect on it and see how much I have overcome against all odds. I�ve accomplished some amazing things. One being a pretty decent mom. And I�ve kept my sense of humor, my ability to engage with others, my ability to smile, to still love and give people the benefit of the doubt. I am pretty awesome. My failed relationships or lack of relationships don�t define who I am. I think I get sad I am single because I just have a lot of love to give. But I�ve accepted this is the status kn my life and I don�t want to give all the good stuff to someone who does t appreciated. So I�m ok. I�m ok with where I am.

My daughter has that bat mitzvah Saturday. Another friend I found out is hosting a sleepover the night before, they will all get ready and the mom would take them. I was sad. I�m losing a weekend night and day. Which is a big deal sometimes to the every other weekend parent. But this is what life is about for her now. I�m having a little bit of a difficult time dealing with it, but I�m happy to see her thrive and I�m happy to see her happy. So, me and her besties mom might do happy hour in town. She�s starting treatment on Monday, so we will toast to her kicking cancer�s butt.

So I�m ok. I only get super sad when I think of M�s son. But I�m accepting life as it is and I�m not quite so depressed. It�s getting better. Day by day. I thank you all for sticking through this with me

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The guys I�ve dated have had pretty decent sex drives.

Not really! Not one of them has been putting in the effort to get with you 2-3 times a week - and a young guy who's interested and has a decent drive SHOULD be feeling that way early in the relationship. At least he should be trying to talk you into meeting him for a quickie somewhere if your schedules are conflicting. None of them have been like that.

I'm not talking about the quality of the sex when you had it, but their desire being sufficiently high that they want to make every effort to get with you in bed as often as possible.

And mind you, I'm not sating everyone has the same drive. But you have YET to be with a guy who has wanted to have sex more often than you did. I think you'd be a lot happier with a guy who wanted it more.

I'm not saying - correction

Well, FF did. He spent all his free time with me. And we had lots of sex. But he was also 27 at the time. He�s the only one who went out of his way for me. Ex NG wanted me to visit all the time, but wouldn�t come to me. M literally lived 12 min away from me and didn�t see me nearly as much as he could.

But no, I haven�t been properly desired yet. Like mentally physically, the whole 9. M thought I was very physically attractive, he told me how attractive I was as a person.

But I can tell you, his words were so opposite from his actions, it was baffling

I forgot to mention..... my exercise mojo has come back that has been gone for 2 years since I busted my knee. I am signed up for 2 times a week but I seriously want to go like everyday. I want to die in that hour, but I friggin love it. In the new year, I may upgrade my plan because I need more than 2 days a week. The endorphins are working

Awesome ginger. I�m glad your feeling better. I totally agree that as a female I want to be pursued and desired. It really is the secret to a guys success. Be vulnerable enough to let the girl know how much you like her and mean it and their actions need to show it. (Of course look out for guys that know that and exploit it )

Chronic Alcohol and Pot abuse decreases libido, so I�m sure that contributed to M�s indifference. My ex was empty and had no passion for anything. Only got excited if he was meeting up with friends (which always meant alcohol). It�s lonely being with someone like that for years and be glad he left you.

You have so much opportunity. This is a fun time in your life because of the potential. And because you can give yourself some self care. Whenever I went on OLD - I did feel nervous, but also went on feeling excited. I loved the idea of having a reason to dress up and flirt and meet up with someone. I loved the attention and I like to go out and socialize. I knew that the guys I went on dates with would end up liking me - because I know what�s out there and I had fun with keeping things light. Your certainly a lot more fun then I am, . So maybe if you reframe the way you view OLD you will feel more positive with it. And positivity begets positivity and I think positive people are attracted to that. Which is what you want. Just focus on giving yourself the time you need to get yourself feeling good. Exercise and hair cuts work wonders.

Hugs

Great to hear you sounding so positive Ginger!!! You rock girl!!! I�ve been doing the gym thing too. The hardest part is getting there (I go at 5 a.m.) but I love how I feel afterward.

I get the feeling of losing out on a weekend. My kids� friends live near me so they don�t tend to see them when they are at their dad�s. This means that when they get home, they are all about their friends...sleepovers, play dates. I try to host as much as possible and have spent more than a few nights hiding out in my room while my kids and their friends do the fun sleepover thing. They appreciate it though so it is worth it.

Work has been murder, I have been working late every night, had daughters holiday concert last night, had to sit next to and talk to the wifey. She was talking about how much she wanted to be Dorothy in her 3rd grade play and she was so mad when she didn�t get it. So they let her be the wicked witch and give the flowers to the director. I guess she always had to have her way and get what she wants. Then she was telling me about how she has solo�s in the church choir. I wanted to muzzle her.

I�m cranky as can be. It�s that time, I�ve been running around like crazy, working myself to death and I just want to punch someone for some reason. My aunt was admitted to my floor today but she wasn�t my patient, she was my partner in Crimes patient. My cousin was p!ssing pretty much everyone off. Her nurse, the aide ( who�s is my buddy) and even the cardiologist . It�s a hard place to be stuck in. Even though I had zero tome on my day to have lunch, I had lunch with my cousin and she�s totally stressed with trying to handle her mom. I feel for her. She has always been an abrasive person, but this obviously isn�t helping and I do feel for her.

I feel totally tapped out. My house looks like a tornado blew through and I wanted to clean tonight, but I can barely move.

Right now I would love to call up in some big burly man arms on the couch. But there ain�t none of that over here. I�ll have to settle for my pain on the butt dog.

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So they let her be the wicked witch

ROFL - type casting for sure.

It really took all my might to not crack up and say something snarky!

I think my sense of humor keeps me sane and sometimes gets me in trouble.

D12 and I were watching 4 weddings today and there was a bacon bar. I said I wanted that for my 40th birthday party and we have 6 months to go! She says to me:

�Um, mom, the husband usually plans the 40th birthday party. How are you going to have one of you don�t have a husband to plan it for you?�

She�s right. Ouch. Unless I do it my self, Which isn�t going to happen. I planned my own (30th birthday night out in Atlantic City) who�s going to do it for me? Well, I�m surely not

It was a gut-punch of a reminder. I was thinking I might be with someone special by 40. And I really thought that I would be having a joint 40th with someone I loved.

I didn�t imagine getting getting divorced before 30. But I was. And I surely didn�t imagine being single at 40. But I will be.

Yuck. Thanks my love, for the reminder

I�m pretty sure there�s tons of married couples where the wife plans her own party!!! Why are you teaching her that you need a man to throw yourself a party?

I say, start planning now for a giant 40th bash! And definitely have a bacon bar (whatever that is lol).

My response to her was �I�ll throw my own party and have a bacon bar!�

But in my heart was the fact I have no desire to plan my own party. I hate party planning. I am bad at party planning . And yeah, it�s usually the spouse.

Once In my life someone through a party for me. It meant the world for me. When I was going away to college my friends through me a surprise party. I will never ever forget it. My dad was gone, my mom was spiraling down, I was barely getting through each day before I got out of the house and away to college. And I never felt so special in my life. They bought me stuff for my dorm. Got me a cake. And I remember my cousin was so grumpy and jealous because no one did that for her.

Honestly, I just want to go away. I want to be on an island with a frozen beverage in my hand. I wish I had the money to make that happen. I do have friends who would probably go with me. But it�s a rough tome of the year to make it happen though.

Eh. It is what it is.

Every interaction with OW, I would just smile and remember that her Karma is having to live with your ex. A guy that puts someone else�s dog over her comfort, that is open to affairs if easy enough, and that did not give her a kid out of choice. Because he�s irresponsible and selfish.

Ginger, I�m someone that likes a partner too. I get it. I think you have gained so much more self respect through these last couple of encounters. Good for you for not replying! Why? Because it�s a waste of time. People reply to grandma�s, not men that have nothing to offer. You don�t have to be polite. You have to just negotiate better for yourself and not worry about being nice if it doesn�t serve you because nice is not respected it�s exploited. Let the guys do the chasing and they will once they sense that you have value. (Which we all know you do) You just sent out a great message by not responding �I am too important to waste time on someone that can�t give me what I deserve� save responses and attention for the men that deserve it.

Juju, you bring up a lot of good points as always. I like having a partner. I like having someone else plan something for me and making me feel special. I like spending time with someone else. It doesn�t mean I can�t be happy on my own, but I certainly prefer life with someone than without someone, all though oddly enough, I�ve been alone longer I�m my adult hood than I have been partnered.

When my lonely weekends come around and there is all this stuff I want to do experience and no one is available.... I say �I�ll just go do it on my own!� And the truth is, I�d be bored to death doing it on my own. A lot of stuff is not fun without a partner. Planning and throwing your own party stinks. And anyways, I don�t even have the funds to do it.

I also need to learn to negotiate for myself much better. I do think I�m making pretty good strides for it. I guess we will see how much better I am at it when I�m back to dating. But my BS tolerance is pretty low these days. I need a friggin man. One who is strong, cares about me, shows it and is as interested in me as I am in them. And simply is willing and excited to give as I am to give. I often think about the stupid little things I hung on to with M that I counted on to make myself feel secure and loved when I didn�t. Him simply writing a statement on a birthday card �I can�t wait to spend many more birthdays with you� I hung on to that. When he was planning things like my stupid shed as a future project, I hung on to that as he wanted to stay and loved me. I was a fool. I held on so hard and reassured myself so hard woth those little things, but I shouldn�t have needed to do that.

I had another hellish day at work today where I worked very hard and very long and I was very exhausted. My aunt is still there, my cousin is asking me to do things I have no control over and She�s not getting it. She is so stressed and overwhelmed, I get it. But she is a very rough customer and has been all her life.

My coworkers and I were discussing my one coworkers sister. Divorced, 36, 8 year old, can�t find a guy. We began talking about guys and their divorced father hood. I mentioned how I used to just want to date a dad but now I don�t want to date a guy who�s head is up his kid�s arses. Seriously. It sounds awful, but I�m sick of it. And I�m very close and involved in my daughters life, but M was so overwhelming with it. My one coworker pointed out it was all due to insecurity. It was sad. But it was true. And I�m sad he had to feel that way.

My pool of good men is narrowing. I�m so picky now, I want an involved dad but one with balance and comfortable in his parent role. Not easy to find.

I predict singledom for another 12 years, god help me.

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When my lonely weekends come around and there is all this stuff I want to do experience and no one is available.... I say �I�ll just go do it on my own!�

Which is why you need some single BFFs. You don't need a man to go do things, but you do need single girlfriends.

Originally Posted by kml

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When my lonely weekends come around and there is all this stuff I want to do experience and no one is available.... I say �I�ll just go do it on my own!�

Which is why you need some single BFFs. You don't need a man to go do things, but you do need single girlfriends.

Is there an app for this? Because I don�t know where to find them. I have one who is a few years younger with no kids. We live different lifestyles though. She still lives like she is in her 20�s . I have a recently divorced friend who just kind of has her moms gone wild thing going on. She isn�t all that close either. It�s too much for me. My single friend I loved to do this stuff with all the time moved to FL and got married.

I�m telling you. It�s easier to get a guy to do this stuff with than make new mom friends at this place in my life. People are just entering the divorce age at my age while I�ve been sitting here doing that thing for many years now. Almost everyone I know is married.

I�m thinking when I recreate my OLD profile I am going to advertise I�m just a single woman looking for a partner to do fun stuff with. ( I will make that much less of a sexual innuendo) if it becomes more, it does, but at least I�ll find myself a good partner to do stuff woth

Ah the grand old 40s. Your married friends will start dropping like flies lol.

My heart hurts for you, G. It really does. I wish you could find everything it is that you want/need to make you happy because you certainly deserve it. I know you are busy between work and little G, but I still think putting yourself out there with hobbies and things is a way to go to meet people: both women and men. Yeah, doing things alone [censored]! It just does. And, it is hard when you are single and all your friends or married (or vice versa for some people), but you live in a well-populated area so there HAS to be some way to meet others and make friends.

I think it was kml who suggested NOT making little G think that she has to have a man to plan big milestones for her and to plan something for yourself. What about your friends? I mean, I know you say you are alone, but didn't you just go to Florida for a good friend's wedding recently? You obviously have friends who you are close enough to to spend money and travel to be part of their special day, so reach out to them and say hey, let's plan something for my 40th because it is going to be EPIC. I get that you want someone special to share these things with. You want to be a part of a couple. I totally understand. But just because you aren't and your friends are, doesn't mean that they can't celebrate your milestones with you.

Here's my little secret for you, though....it doesn't matter. And, others may disagree with me. I'll be 50 in January. I know Sparky has bought tickets to something for me and I have no idea what, though I have a good idea, but I'm trying not to spoil his surprise. Anyway, I'm the planner in our family because I'm a bit of a control freak (ok a whole lot of a control freak, but I digress), but I'm trying to be chill about this whole 50 thing because in all reality it is just another birthday. I'm not saying 40 isn't a big deal, because it most definitely is, but I can't honestly even tell you right this minute what I did for my 40th. I was married to my XH when I turned 40 and he was SO not a planner, so if we did anything, it wasn't anything big or that required a lot of planning. I seem to recall him inviting my entire family to our town and us going to my favorite restaurant in town to eat. The one specific thing I do remember is that the girls made me a cake and they worked very hard on it and it was super cute. Other than that, couldn't really tell you who was there, what we had/did/etc. It is a big deal, don't get me wrong, but 5 years from now...10 years from now....even farther into the future, will it really even matter that you planned it or reached out to your friends to help you or will it just matter that you got to have fun on your big, special day with some people who are special to you?

Yeah, the only big birthday party I had was my 50th - my ex did orchestrate that, BUT he went off the rails a year or two after so how much did that really mean?

Aww, dawn, you are so sweet. And you get me. I know it sounds weird, but I feel like I have earned certain basic things in my life, like a loving partner and stability.

Funny enough one of my best friends, the one who I went to FL with for the wedding text me last night saying �we need to start planning for your 40th, what do you want to do?!� Funny how the universe works. A friend and ex coworker who I haven�t seen for a very long time day a picture of D12 on facebook and said, wow, you are getting old!� As a joke of course. And I said yup, the big 4-0 is 6 mo the away� probably what triggered my friend and she sent me that text.

Any ways, we think we are going to FL to celebrate with friend. And we are going to go to st Augustine for a day which I have been wanting to visit. Or maybe we will do Disney . So I�m excited.

I have mostly married friends, yes. And I�m happy they haven�t went down the road I have.
Work has been pretty bad. It�s so unmanageable and the morale is pretty low right now. I�m working too long every day and I am zapped of all energy. And work has been a little more difficult with my aunt on my floor. It�s so sad to see what happened to her. She�s got a psychotic photo of dementia going on right now. She thinks her husband is trying to kill her and �steal the kids� and he�s been so great to her. I saw tears in his eyes today. I walk past her room and she calls out to me, because for some reason She feels safe with me. My uncle stops me when I�m in the area too every time because he doesn�t know what to do. She went home today. I hope they can handle her and she begins to go back to pleasantly confused. She�s a shell of what she was. My cousin told me she feels like she lost her mom and her dad does too.

�Tis the season . It�s awfully sad for some.

Glad to hear you have some great birthday plans in the works Ginger!! Ahhh 40... seems so young to me now...lol. I am envious...the older you get, the faster the years seem to go by. Enjoy it as much as you can. (((HUGS)))

Thanks, D! I�m pretty excited to have something to look forward to. It�ll be a lot of fun. And my friend was sweet, she said �this week is going to be all about you� I can�t remember the last tome it has been all about me!

I�ve been thinking more and more about what I want when I do decide to jump back into that dating pool. And what what brought up on thread And how much I am growing more self respect I am getting.

Too many men have only wanted to date me with the expectation that I nearly fit into their lives. They have acted like their lives are so much more special than mine, I should think their schedules are more special than mine, their kids and their hobbies. And unless I just went along with THEIR flow, they really ended up not interested.

I�m important. My daughter is important. My family is important . My schedule is important. What I enjoy is important.

And when I�m dating a guy, their children, schedule, family, and interests are important to me too. But it is a two way street. We both should make each other feel important and respect each others lives and make accommodations when needed.

I have this weird feeling. I feel like I am even LESS likely to find someone because I am only willing to engage in a mutual interest and involvement in another�s life. I know where I am in life right now is not congruent with men in my age range. They are typically newly divorced and just want someone who can go with THEIR life and flow. Because that�s all they seem to be capable of. I only hope I am fortunate enough to find someone healed enough and interested enough to be a part of my life too. It�s a tall order it seems.

How do I feel about my continues singledom? I really miss having someone to talk to. To cuddle with . To spend time with. To ask me how my day was. But I am also enjoying not having to deal with someone who just wants what he wants with no real regards to my feelings. That feels pretty bad. It doesn�t work for me anymore. I want someone in my life who wants to be there, even when it doesn�t work for them perfectly.

Anyways. I�m zapped. I was supposed to go to my class tonight, but I worked too late, it�s hell over there and I am just exhausted. Blood vessels broke in my eyes and all my joints hurt. I think I am just exhausted.

Tomorrow is another day

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unless I just went along with THEIR flow, they really ended up not interested.

Please reread Why men Love B!tches.

This is actually the opposite of true - they didn't give more because you were TOO accommodating and went along with their flow. They got used to that and then if you tried to change it, they balked. But the same men - or if not them, many others - would go out of their way for a sassy woman with high expectations who they know might not be available for a date unless they lock her down early, because they've got competition in the form of other interested men. If they know you'll kick them to the curb if they don't step up to the plate because you have many willing suitors waiting in the wings, most men will put out a LOT more effort. I know that doesn't come naturally to you (me neither - I've mostly learned the truth of this accidentally, when my busy-ness or lack of interest leads to being more pursued by a guy). Date men WITHOUT the mindset of looking for true love, and instead with the mindset of "Is this guy good enough for me to waste time on? Is he putting out enough effort or should I move on to another guy?". I think you'll be surprised at the difference in the responses you get from men.

Originally Posted by kml

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unless I just went along with THEIR flow, they really ended up not interested.

Please reread Why men Love B!tches.

I've gotten side tracked by some non-R and non-cruise life issues so I have not yet finished the rest of the book but will and will write more then, but yeah, the more things come out Ginger the more I so agree with KML you need to re-read this book. Even what you talked about on another thread and I'm glad you are so open, but it's kinda more of the same that you've always done (talking about being naked with a guy on the first date with the guy right before M). I know you've told part of that story before but not sure about the first date - and again it's right from the book of what NOT to do.

You and perhaps others have said that you see books like WMLB or from the Coach as "playing games." The thing is, many say the same about DBing - that it's game playing. Of course most of us here don't see it that way. Why would DBing not be game playing but sort of the same principles said another way is? The thing is, just like DBing, if it's not authentic, the other person may see right through it. We tell people here that all the time that if you are not really detached and doing GAL authentically, the spouse may see the person is doing it just to try to win them back. The thing is, at some point, DBing becomes natural and is not at all game playing and I totally see WMLB exactly the same.

With DBing, I was in some ways doing it with R's many, many years before I even knew what it was. I thought of all sorts of examples of how I DB'd someone, just because it's how I felt, it was my authentic response, but the reaction was very much as predicted. I see it totally the same with WMLB. If it's faked and not authentic it could well be seen as or feel like game playing but it really should be authentic and it should be how every self-assured, successful woman acts. She should expect more from the guy, she should not give away sex early on, she should not need to hear from the guy all the time, or see him 5 times a week early on, or have to always go with their flow.

What I'm saying is to give this book another read and another chance. It's not game playing - not at all. It's much more about how quality women act when they go from doormat to dreamgirl. Or any of these examples:

"He must feel that you choose to be with him, not that you need to be with him.�

"Decide how you want to be treated. Choose what you will or will not tolerate. Leave if you don�t get what you want.�

�Be an independent thinker at all times, and ignore anyone who attempts to define you in a limiting way.�

�Men don't respond to words. What they respond to is "no contact".�

�When you live life with him or without him, that is when he will accept and value you for who you are.�

�The more independent you are of him, the more interested he will be.�

�Success in love isn't about looks, it's about attitude.�

And it certainly is not about good luck or back luck (that part is mine)

I could copy and paste a bunch more but these things I just listed from the book are not about playing games - it's a blueprint for success and it's what this book, at least from all that I can tell, is about.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

Originally Posted by kml

Quote

When my lonely weekends come around and there is all this stuff I want to do experience and no one is available.... I say �I�ll just go do it on my own!�

Which is why you need some single BFFs. You don't need a man to go do things, but you do need single girlfriends.

Is there an app for this?

G, do a search on facebook for singles groups and your city. There are a couple in my area that aren't very active as far as meeting in person, but there is one in Raleigh (a little over an hour away) that i've gone out with a few times even though they are pretty far from me. Maybe being in a big city yourself, there will be a nice active group locally. One thing I've noticed from that single group is you have a few that just wanna hook up, but more so a lot of the ladies have become close friends with each other and are constantly doing things with just them.

I had no idea there are singles groups on FB! Thanks coconut! It�s weird. I�m a half hour outside NYC. But going into NYC is the hugest pain in the hit. Driving in is expensive. Finding parking is impossible. I. Don�t feel confident woth the busses and trains alone. And it�s just more effort than it�s worth for meet up groups. I how to find more locally. Still a very populated area. And since I�ve joined. I get random messages on the meetup app from men. I�m not digging that. But I�ll totally look into the facebook thing. We cannot say it�s for lack of trying on my part

Today I wanted to quit my job. Seriously. We all did in my department. We have been beyond capacity and then we were supposed to have a meeting to look at work flow to see how we can improve and streamline it so we aren�t so overwhelmed and be more present at the bedside. Well, that went to crap. Our manager had her own agenda and it actually gave us MORE work. Then she proceeded to tell us she has to defend us all the time because our units finds us �unapporachable� which I know is a whole bunch of BS. We all left feeling like no matter what we do, it�s never enough. And lately I am sacrificing my daughter and I haven�t been liking it. So why even try? Why burn myself out into the ground?

Then tonight my partner at work we�re in tied to our unit Christmas party. Which was in my town! Yay!!! My partner had been off all week and I told her what transpired. She was in shock. We were taking about to with our unit and they said they had never felt so comfortable with us as case managers and that we totally approachable and one nurse called us �lifesavers� . We are probably the only unit where the nurses come and hang out in our office or come to openly discuss. Cases.

Well, we had the best time At our party. It was nice to actually go to a holiday party again. We had a very fun white elephant. Drank wine, ate, had so many laughs.

Talk about online dating. My coworker who is dating the guy who had messaged me though online dating brought her Bf. He was married to Someone I knew growing up but they recently divorced. When he messaged me through OLD I actually said � aren�t you married to so and so??� Our kids used to dance together too. Not long after he messaged me
He started dating the coworker.

Anyways. I�m going to try to go into work woth a good attitudes but the more I think about it...... my daughter is at an age where I can go back to bedside nursing. I can do the 12.5 hour shifts and she can be ok. I�m thinking my time is coming to perhaps to go back to that. I always said I would when she got older. Something to consider. Because I�m going to burn out hard if this doesn�t get any better

Another weekend alone with me, myself, and I. I didn�t even leave the house yesterday. Work was so bad last week I was totally shot. I wasn�t going to go to our groups holiday party because I worked so late and had an awful headache... but I showed up. And people actually cheered! I�m glad I went. We are all pretty fed up at work. Our boss is pretty bad. What she did was so wrong. And we are pretty tired of working these long days with no compensation and only to be demoralized.

Anyways. So yesterday, alone, all day, in my jammies. I needed it. I cleaned the house, did laundry, took a few naps, etc. I needed it. Today I went and got an oil change and went to the gym. And my plantar fasciitis is back now that I�m running. I had surgery on one foot, but it�s pretty bad in the other. I need to shop for better sneakers. But I got my exercise in.

My dad informed me that him and his wife are coming Friday night and staying all the way through until Christmas night. We will be away together from Saturday and Sunday. I�m a little nervous. I give up my room..... which is a pain because I got to work and get ready in there. But at least they will be with D 12 when she is off mo day and Tuesday. For half the day on Christmas Eve, she wants to go see her stepmothers parents. Which I said was fine as long as she was home by the time I got home from work. My stepmother said she would make dinner one night. And my daughter has a sleepover at her friends that Tuesday night.

So. I have a confession. I feel like such a loser that I can spend a whole weekend alone. I don�t know why, but I just feel like a loser. And I get sad when I see social media and all these families doing chritmassy things together.... couples doing the same. And hey! It�s me and my dog!

At least I didn�t do anything stupid like text M. He�s been on my mind. I didn�t sign up for online dating either. Although the funny thing is I had time this month to date, but next month I start my new job.....

This is my life. I don�t know where I�m going. I feel like I will continue to be alone for another 12 years. Just hoping for this amazing guy to swoop in and like me so much that is potent and loving, thinks my life is as important as his and is willing to do what he needs to be a part of it.

But yeah. I just feel like a loooooooserrrrrr

gonna tell ya what I've heard: feelings aren't facts .
they really aren't, but they sure feel like they are.

I don't think you're a loser. You show up for your life every day.. You've put your daughter first and have a relationship with exh and his apow wife that allows your daughter to have a normal, healthy relationship with both her parents. That's amazing.

You're beautiful and if I'm your hero, let me tell ya, you are mine. xoxoxo

G,

You�re not a loser you�re just in a transition period. This time of the year is tough on us northerners for sure. Even though I was married for 3 out of the last 4 Christmas� they were pretty lonely and empty for me. That�s how many married people on SM feel and it�s all fake. I�m optimistic now that this will be my last lonely Christmas without a SO. You should be too. 2020 will be your year I am sure of it.

Thanks. Because I was really feeling kind of pathetic. I was reflecting back on the year. I started a new job. I had yet another surgery . This one really didn�t have to do with my health, but was a little rough on the body image. I fell in love again! I also lost love again in the same year. I�ve had financial set backs.

It�s been a roller coaster of a year. And every year has been a roller coaster of a year. And I�ve faced most of my challenges alone. One would think it gets easier over time. But honestly, after so many years, it�s getting harder. I crave stability badly. I know I should be providing my own, and I do to the best of my ability. But a little comfort, peace of mind, things not going off the rails and someone by my side to lean to when it does. It�s what I need. Every year I say �this year is going to be my year� and well, I get teased, but it really never is. Each year is challenge.

But I�m going to hold on a little hope. This year will be my year.

In the meantime I am absolutely dreading work today . I can�t take another week of 9+ hour days of working like a dog. I pray it�s better

Today was interesting. After last weeks h@lll week, I show up to work and they tell us we are had 3 call outs. Which left us severely short handed and me handling my whole huge floor. 2 of us had 10 more patients than everyone else. I was one of them. They said �do what you can� but admittedly said whatever we don�t do, we have to catch up with. I left at 4:30 ( half hour later than quitting time) because I had to go grocery shopping, cook dinner and take the dog to the vet.

And get this. Our crazy witch manager made us go to her meditation gong emersion. You heard me right. I hated it it. I will not get that hour back of my life. The hints were so loud, I couldn�t relax and they were giving me anxiety. She said we needed to go so we could relax and have a work life balance. See, a work life balance to me is getting home to my child on time! My relationship with my coworkers on my floor is growing though. They are such a great group.

I also forgot my phone today. It was quite liberating being disconnected today. And when I was getting my morning coffee, I swear a guy was checking me out. We locked eyes. And smiled. His eyes were a beautiful blue, which I have always been a sucker for. The only brown eyes I have ever actually dated my exH I also realize I have thing for blue collar workers. He was some guy on some bright yellow vest about to do physical work.... and I like that. I�ve dated a plumber, HVAC,FF........ I�m totally into the blue collar guys. Probably because I like manly men. I�ve never dated a suited up man before. M was kind of techie too, working and fixing phone systems. I guess it�s my thing. Maybe I need to change it up. The last guy was a creative director for a large make up company..... that was different for me.
In case you can�t tell. I miss men. Lol. I think this might be one of my longer periods of no men at all. And I miss having a guy. But y�all knew that already.

I spent $300 updating my dogs vaccines today. I am hurting for money so badly. Even with another job, I feel like I�ll never catch up. I feel more like I need 2 jobs. I actually had tears leaving the vet today. I�m never going to get ahead. And probably will never get even.

One income in NJ is really freakin� hard to live on. I can�t wait to blow this joint. One day.

Just for the record I have blue eyes, wear a suit to work and am a mans man lol. I need YouTube to fix things though lol.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

One income in NJ is really freakin� hard to live on. I can�t wait to blow this joint. One day.

I think I read you are a nurse right? Come out west and you will find a job easy. The COL is a lot better than Jersey.

Originally Posted by LH19

Just for the record I have blue eyes, wear a suit to work and am a mans man lol. I need YouTube to fix things though lol.

Why must you tease a woman like that???!!!

Hi G,

I�m just catching up here. I�m sorry you are having such a tough time at work. That is very draining both physically and mentally. And I certainly relate to the holiday �blahs.� It IS cuffing season so it seems like everyone (even though it�s not true) is paired off. Even my friend who hasn�t dated anyone in over 5 years is with someone. And while I�m happy for her, I feel...weird. I think it will be very challenging for me to get into a relationship and that makes me sad.

Hang in there. Enjoy your dog. Have fun with D. Try to do the best you can at work. It�s all any of us can do in life-the best we can. Sending you a hug.

Two feet, I would
Move out to Colorado without even blinking if I could. I am a nurse and I�m lucky my profession yields similar salaries throughout the country in addition to there always being jobs.

Georgia! Welcome back. I read your update and I can�t begin to say how much I relate. Although a inch of guys aren�t checking me out, lol. Everyone else but me pretty much has someone. And it is tough. Most of my ex boyfriends are getting married or couples and everyone around me is too. It just adds to the loneliness. All we can do is the best we can, right? Hugs right back at ya!!!

.....................

I was doing some somewhat positive thinking. Which is not easy for me right now. But hey, why not?

I�m surviving work, it got a little better today. I got to my fitness class 2 days in a row! I�m kicking butt there. But the sweet treats keep rolling in...... I haven�t been going out, so my drinking is minimal. One glass of wine per night.

For some reason I began thinking of the what I really liked about the guys I most seriously dated. Or meant the most to me anyways. I�m trying to roll them all together to really figure out what I am looking for.

Each guy had their own very special qualities. Each relationship had their own �pull�

The first guy we dated shortly, he didn�t want anything serious with me and we became FWB over the course of 4-5 years on and off. He was 15 years older but in similar places. We never really went out, maybe dinner a few times, but I loved hanging at his place. We both loved the same hockey team and would watch games together with our own running commentary. We were comfortable
with each other and a place of comfort until he found �the one� my favorite dates were the time we played Mario cart while drinking wine. I remember it vividly. The other one was where we spent New Year�s Eve together watching Times Square show on the Spanish channel. I smile every time I think of that night.

Then there was exNG. I don�t think I will ever have a connection with anyone like him again. It can�t be explained. If there are soul mates who aren�t meant to be together, he was it. I think he would still say the same even though he is engaged. I have never felt so comfortable and me around anyone in my life. Since he was out of state, we spent whole weekends together. Cooking dinner together. Spending time with our friends up there, shopping, having a lazy Sunday on the couch in front of the fire talking about everything and just watching Tv. I wish more than anything all the more fundamental stuff could have come together for us. But it didn�t.

FF. 9 years younger. No one has ever made me feel like a more special woman than he did. He wanted to spend time to with me. Thought up fun dates. When we first started seeing each other, I remember one night, we only had 45 min to spend together while my D was at dance. I had to go to the grocery store. He came with me just to see me. I loved the relationship we had. He knew how to date a woman. But again, the age difference couldn�t let it happen.

Then M. Oh M. My longest. The one I thought I had a future with. What did I love about our R? Well, he seemed really into me at first. And was always wanting to help me with physical stuff. We did always have fun together when he would want to spend time with me. But the truth is. The connection wasn�t really there like with the other guys. I thought he was more practical, but he wasn�t . And it makes me sad. He was right. There was something missing. I think if he wasn�t still dealing with all the stuff, he could have connected more.

Oh. I forgot my exH. I haven�t really highlighted the positive in a long time from when we were together. He also spoke my LL of quality time. He did love to spend time with me. He was pretty engaged with me too, honestly. We did almost everything together. And we went to bed every night together ( unless I was working night shift, of course) we enjoyed the same things. He�s just was mean and selfish. If he was more loving, caring, and empathetic, I imagine he would have been a good husband and a good match for me.

If you actually read this, congrats.

I have found very different qualities in different t men. There one good ones.
I imagine myself with a guy who desires to spend time with me, has similar interest, and we have that great connection, where we could do anything or nothing as long as we are together and still enjoy it. Someone who thinks I�m important. Someone I feel comfortable with and treats me like a lash, and does t just give up.

I hope he�s out there. But it�s a tall order, I know that.

honey what's a lash and why do you want to be treated like one??? xoxoxo :*

Originally Posted by bttrfly

honey what's a lash and why do you want to be treated like one??? xoxoxo :*

Lol! Lady! You must have actually read that!!

of course! I always read your thread, lol

it helps to know what you want and then refuse to settle for less.

I see that you recently did that Ginger, and I Think that�s gonna spark a change for you when you reenter the dating world.

Men don�t respect women that settle. They will work hard and value a woman that negotiates more for herself. You say that in the past, the guys found� the one� after you. That�s not because you are any less nice, intelligent pretty, funny, easy going then these other girls. I think it�s because you didn�t expect anything from them. Guys like to live up to expectations.

If what you wanted was a LTR, from the beginning - don�t accept less. Don�t be someone�s side piece. (Aka FWB) it�s devaluing and guys sense that they can take advantage. It�s the female equivalent for a guy being friend zoned and it takes time away from finding someone that is looking for what you are looking for.

Don�t give too much and make them work for you. You don�t have to play games or come on too strong to do this. Like if someone�s not putting in effort early on - don�t talk to him about it. (That�s for when your in a relationship and shows your attached a bit too early to even bring it up) Just detach and see what else is out there.

I know this sounds old fashioned and doesn�t correlate with feminism. But i think it�s realistic.

He IS out there, but you know how men are, girl. He's probably just lost and refusing to ask for directions.

You know G, I think you are getting close. Looking back I am sure you know that none of these men were right for you. You settled with M and you know that.

Get back on the horse when you are ready. Get to a place emotionally where you are feeling positive and good about yourself.

Like attracts like......the universe has a funny way of putting the right people in your life at the right times!

I think I�m really beginning to feel the shift. I also think I feel my time might finally be coming.

I�m advocating for myself for sure. I�m done trying to �keep� a guy around, ignoring red flags and not walking away when a guy takes me granted or makes me feel like less.

With M, I did know he wasn�t for me. I did t have with him what I had with the other guys.... M just seemed like the more practical mature choice on paper. Lived close, single parents, had jobs, etc. but that special intimacy wasn�t there. He wasn�t really even aware of me. I�m kind of sad I wasted a year. But I was happy for some of it. I loved the feeling of being with him and his family. And I got a chance to love his son. Not all was lost. But really, he was not for me.

I�ve been recommitted to the my exercise classes. I go twice a week, which is my membership, but I want to go more. It makes me feel really good. My eating isn�t all that hot yet, the holidays are killing me, but I�m trying.

I also realized I need to love myself as is. I told myself I wanted to look hot in a bikini for my 40th birthday. And the. I was like �really? That�s my goal?! How about to be good with who I am and what I�ve achieved and just be happy and content with me and where I am in my life?� I don�t think m that could be measured by looking hot in a bikini. I�m happy enough to feel my endurance coming back and getting towards fit again,

My goals are changing for myself. Evolving. I hope that when I hop back onto online dating, that it is reflected and comes back around to me.

I�m really truly ready now for the real thing.

Line from a show I was just watching: "We accept the love we think we deserve".

You deserve more, girl.

Originally Posted by kml

Line from a show I was just watching: "We accept the love we think we deserve".

You deserve more, girl.

Thank you. I finally believe I do.

We just got home from Our PA trip with my dad and his wife. It went well. We had a good time.
My dad also drives like a maniac at 90 mph, riding everyone�s a$$ weaving in and out of lanes. We had our usually argument over that. I tell him it makes me sick, it�s scary, please calm down, then he screams at me. But I�m used to it.

Now we are home and he is being quiet and cranky. Already said something about my daughter�s room. I�m beginning to feel a bit uncomfortable in my home. I work for the next 2 days while they are here, so I guess that�s good ( although booooo work) I only get actual Christmas Day off this week.

Feeling weird. I really did have a good time.

I just feel kind of out of sorts. And I feel fat. But that�s a whole other story. I am stressing about getting everything together for my second job. And I just really don�t want a second job. One is enough and stressful. But I guess I got do what a girl�s got to do.

I just got to get through these holidays with my sanity.

{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}

Today was yet another looooong day at work. Just not enough time in the day to get your work done. I did come home to dinner made by my dads wife. My dad did some cleaning..... and of course made passive aggressive comments, but he meant well, and I appreciate it. D12 is at a friends holiday party and will be home at 9. I�ve got a long day of work ahead of me tomorrow too. I�ve been so busy at work, I�ve been having a hard time following up with stuff for my new job, I wouldn�t be surprised if I lose that opportunity and I can�t afford too. It�s too much to do, too little time. I�m feeling the pressure hard core.

I wish I could be much more optimistic. But for the love of God, why are some people meant to struggle for so long???? Am I still paying for my past transgressions? I feel like I�ve paid a million fold. I�m tired. My body is tired, my mind is tired, and my soul is tired. I never imagined I would be carrying so much responsibility and stress for so long and all alone. It feels almost cruel.

This year is killing me. Last year, I was seeing what I thought was this wonderful guy, I had a new home, and I got to meet this guys family on Christmas Eve and they loved me and I loved them. And I remember thinking as we lay in his bed that night � finally, this is why all my struggle happened, this is the pay off�

Well, that was nothing more than a cruel joke. And here i am, a year later, alone, broke, stressed, and fat.

But alive. So I have to be grateful.

G,

You�re stealing my thunder about paying for behavior. Let�s make a pact that we feel sorry for ourselves through 2019 and in 2020 we make $hit happen for ourselves!

I can one up you, my friend. My exH was my friends ex boyfriend. I made a really bad mistake at 18/19 and I�m paying for it ever since. She has forgiven me sometime ago and we are still very close friends. I have not forgiven myself yet,
Though. It was out of character for me. When everyone abandoned me , and he gave me attention, I took the bait. And we all know how that turned out.

But maybe it is time to forgive myself and stop hating myself for it. I always told myself I absolutely deserve what�s coming to me for the rest of my life for what I did. But maybe no more. I�ve learned my lesson. A kazillion times over. And said friend always says if anyone deserves it, it�s me, and I even hurt her badly.

So yes, let�s forgive ourselves and make this year the beat and take the bulls by the horn. It�s time.

G,

Well I�m right there with you. My ex went out on a few dates with my friend and I snatched her away from him. Justifying by saying it was only a few dates. It bothered me and our friendship was never the same. My ex never seemed to care. Now here we go again she�s sort of doing it again.

Karma can be a b!tch.

So here we go. I�m going to Complain and whine here because I don�t do it IRL.

I am being hit very hard emotionally. I saw an IG story today FF�s sister posted. Usually seeing him and his GF doesn�t bother me. But today it made me feel so bad for myself. She made a �this is family� with her parents, her boyfriend, and FF and his girlfriend dancing and singing . I knew it was never going to be and him. But why can�t I just have something like that?!? I seriously can�t believe it�s another Christmas and new years alone again. And literally, New Years is alone.

I�m just sad and lonely it is actually causing me pain. I haven�t felt this low in so long. I feel like the most unlovable reject. I know I am not, but it�s how I feel. And I know this feeling will pass. But it�s hammering down on me hard.

I will do what good mothers do. Go home, put on the most excited happy face and indulge my daughter with cookie making and Christmas movie watching. She will never know my heart is breaking.

Because that�s what moms do.

I wished you lived close to me because we would get drunk tonight lol.

I feel you pain G and just put on my happy face for my kiddos.

Our time will come!

2020 is going to be awesome for both of you!!!!

LH, you are a man after my own heart! I�d totally get drunk with you. We would have a blast. As miserable as I sound here, I�m actually a pretty fun and I laugh all the time.

Come on 2020, I�m ready for ya!

Well. I finally did something stupid .

I texted M. I wished him and his family a happy holiday as they have been having a rough year. I said I often think about their family, especially his S and I hope Santa treats him extra special this year and I wish his family much peace and love.

He actually replies right away that he wished me and D12 and our dog a happy holiday.

I just want to curl up in a ball and cry. But this is something I wanted to do, and I did it. And it�s over.

Still want to just cry. Last year on Christmas Eve wa so awesome and it wS when I first realized I loved him.

I know he isn�t for me and what he did was messed up. But nontheless I did love him.

You can kick my butt now

I think my closure is finally setting in

Wishing you and your family a very Merry Christmas!

New Thread:

Lost, but hoping to find myself