I Saw It on Mulberry Street - DivorceBusting.com

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One of my daughter's favourite books for me to read to her was Fox In Socks.

Ok, so I have to be honest because you know I love you. (By the way, I am responding to your last long post on your previous thread, so this may not make sense to those who didn't go back and read it before jumping here.) I, personally, did not think it was a red flag for S to not offer to pony up half of the cost of your date on Sunday. It did seem to be a red flag to me that she lives off support money from XHs. Now, in your most recent long post, you say that she and her most recent X both list themselves as separated and not divorced. I'm trying NOT to let my personal feelings on this subject get in the way, but after you went down that road once before, I would just say you should proceed with extreme caution. People can say they are separated and maybe there are even some legal steps toward that which have been taken, but the fact of the matter is that she is still married and ANYTHING can happen. I just don't want to see you get hurt.

I have to admit, I'm kind of a stickler about that "separated" thing. When I was actively OLD, I would not engage with people who listed themselves as separated because even if they are truly separate, there is just not much room for error there, so to speak. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you what to do or how to feel and if you want to move forward knowing that she is not divorced for whatever reason, you are an adult and should totally do what you have to do. Of course, I had 2 bad experiences with that whole "separated" issue, so whatever...maybe that is clouding my judgment. LOL

You do you, Andrew and have a good time. Just, please, proceed with caution. I say that only because I care about you and do not want you to get hurt.

I know exactly what Andrew is doing. He's scheming. He doesn't really want the woman. He wants the children so he can sell them for scientific experiments.

Have you no soul?

I'm going to chime in and add my agreement with Don's post. My XH's parents absolutely detest each each other to this day. The hatred between them runs strong and deep. There was a time when XH and his siblings would divide family occasions between the parents so that they were not in the same room. When XH and I got engaged though, I put my foot down (and probably in it too, but I digress) as I thought it was high time MIL and FIL learned to behave like grownups. They'd been apart for at least 12 years and to my mind that was enough time to stop with the full-blown civil war.

As it happens, both parents agreed, fully realising that to continue the war would mean a) they were causing a lot of angst and grief for their children (this was MIL's worry) and b) the chance of being excluded from something important (this was far more FIL's worry). I'm absolutely certain it wasn't easy for either of them, but to their eternal credit any time they've been at the same family event they have both behaved well enough to get invited to the next one.

My XH has now been emphatically told that he is not to involve our boys in his communication issues with me. Just last week they both had reason to tell him that if he has something to say to me he says it direct and not to use them as intermediaries. I'll post on my own thread in more detail about this when this week's events play out to some sort of conclusion, but suffice to say Don's point about family dynamics continuing long after children turn 18 is totally valid.

I couldn�t agree more with all that was said regarding coparenting. I think at any age parents who don�t speak really affect them. I�m sure hiding the fact he sees his mother or mentioning his mother puts a strain on him. I know my ex and I had to coparent, speak and be civil. I looked into her futures and all her big events, and I didn�t want anyone to have to miss out. And I wanted her to be comfortable for them. And she is. And she often tells me how happy she is that we can talk �unlike other divorced parents�

Your son is struggling so much that you had to point him to the crisis hot line. Now is a better time than any to extend the love branch. Not for you, but for your kids. Putting the BS aside and focusing on your kids.
Someone usually has to be the bigger person in all this. I do think that could be you. As long as you don�t make it about your marriage or what happened to the both of you, it could really make a huge difference in your children�s lives.

I often feel so sad for M�s son. His parents don�t even look each other in the eye or say a word to each other when in the same room. This will be his life if his ex doesn�t but the BS. M wanted to communicate with her regarding S. She refuses . And it�s going to hurt one person, that innocent little boy. He�s still young and innocent. He talks about his mom openly in front of his dad and me. But that won�t last forever if they don�t get on the same page.

Sure, it�s scary. But we all say we would take a bullet for our kids. But when push comes to shove, many won�t put their own stuff aside long enough to do what�s best for their kids. It�s a proverbial bullet. And that bullet doesn�t have to kill you.

It really is something to think about. Maybe him just knowing his parents are on his team as a team might make a world of a difference.

One thing doesn�t work for sure. Burying our head in the sand. You won�t give him the tough love push he probably needs. But maybe this could help. He�s a 25 year old man, truly struggling and lacking drive to make it better. Maybe when he sees his mom and dad really want that for him and they are on the same page, he will get that drive.

It really is something to think about .

I'm sorry S25 is struggling. I'm not in his situation (or yours for that matter), so I can't KNOW how it feels, but I would imagine it has to be difficult to be a grown man still living in his childhood bedroom and not having anymore drive than he did at, say, 14 or 15. Though I doubt that you put pressure on him about keeping his visits with his mom silent, he likely still feels pressure, whether that is of his own making or not.

I'm a bit na�ve, maybe, to the whole parent issue because my parents divorced when I was 25, but have continued to remain a united front for the most part. We still celebrate all of our family holidays together as well as milestones like graduations and kid/grandkid birthdays. I do realize that not everyone is that way, but I guess I just never thought about how it might affect adult "children". From that standpoint, I have found this discussion quite interesting. Because I like to be able to learn and grow from what I read, what it has actually done for me is made me rethink how I interact with XH. In the relatively near future, he will be moving back here and while we won't like celebrate holidays together, since the girls are already stretched thin anyway, we may very well celebrate grandkids' birthdays together and I need to have a strategy for communicating that is polite and friendly but doesn't come across fake and contrived because I would hate for the girls to get the wrong message. So, thank you all for your wisdom.

Andrew, sorry for the hijack, but just offering a different viewpoint on the situation. It may really benefit your son if you and XW could get on the same page. You don't have to fall back in love and rehash a bunch of old crap to still love, care for and want what is best for your children and to work as a unit accordingly. You've said many times you won't put him out and you have also said that XW is no help, but at some point, if he is really in a bad way, y'all are going to have to figure out how to come together to give him the push and the support that he needs to move on. He seems to tell you on occasion things about wanting to move out and that sort of thing, but it seems that is just lip service and he is likely just telling you what he thinks you want to hear. I have said this before, but in many ways, he is living a much younger lifestyle than his actual age might suggest. He's a grown man and may well have some maturity about him that comes from being the age he is, but he's also living like a 13 year old with little responsibility. He does have his car payment to worry about and that is a good thing because it does give him responsibility to a certain extent, but other than that, he's not really on the hook for anything else so his life hasn't changed much from where he was 10 or 12 years ago. You don't want to push and I get it. But, there may come a time when you and XW have to band together and push, cajole, support, carry, enforce, motivate....whatever you have to do to get him to a better place. You are clearly a loving dad who wants what is best for his kids. I can't speak to the mom your XW is because I only have your side of that story and as we all know there are 2 sides. What I can say is that this seems like a time when your S25 needs both of you and though he may not admit it or even take overly kindly to it, he needs a little tough love from both parents to help him navigate to a more adult version of his life.

Careful here..
We are not in your son' s head.

What if he is overwhelm ( lack of work, lack of direction, not many close friends to confine in etc. )
Pushing him away will only make him more depress and lonely.

In my opinion, you should have taken the opportunity of your trip to bring him along and reconnect with him.
It does not seem like there is any FAMILY time in your family. Even when you visit your D, Son is left behind.

I would try very hard to give him YOUR time doing something as father and son other then a sunday supper.

Just my opinion..

I agree with exquisite - I realized my son craves the closeness of dinners with mom every night. it gives him a chance to touch base about his day. He gets quite put. out. if we go more than a day or two without having a meal together. It used to irritate me, but now I realize what it means to him, and things are better between us and between his ears, seemingly, as a result.

Andrew, could you email your concerns to exw? She is his mother. She may not see what you do, as you're the one living there.

Originally Posted by doodler

I know exactly what Andrew is doing. He's scheming. He doesn't really want the woman. He wants the children so he can sell them for scientific experiments.

Have you no soul?

I've sent my soul out for polishing and forgotten the receipt. I did point out to B that her 4 kids and 6 of her grand-kids (the rest are step) were the ideal candidates for organ donors so she needed to be extra nice to them and make sure they are kept healthy. S has 5 kids and one grand-kid so she's got a good inventory available.

Originally Posted by exquisitetobe

Thanks everyone for your input. I know that you all have good intentions with your advice.

S25 had zero interest in going to Spain and similarly to go visit his sister. She makes an effort and sends him cards and presents at birthdays and such but he doesn't. He seems perfectly content with this. His sister has an ever increasing frustration and annoyance with his lack of reciprocity. On my first solo visit to D27 a few years ago I had invited S25 along with me, paid for him to get his passport - twice - actually walked him to the passport office where he found reasons to not apply. He ended up lying to me and at the last minute broke down crying that he "couldn't go" after everything was all paid for and arranged. At the time I thought it was pressure from his mother but it undoubtedly was just a combination of not wanting to go and not wanting to disappoint me.

I'm rather certain that he indulges me in Sunday supper because he knows it's important to me but doesn't really care one way or the other. He wasn't put out at all when I didn't do it when I got back from my trip.

I've also invited him along to family reunions, the recent wedding of his cousin and he was relieved each time when he didn't have to go. He just doesn't want to engage and never has, even from a young age with either side of his family. When he does encounter family, he's outgoing, charming and engages with them and they all think that he's a super great guy which he is in that moment. And he talks about these encounters positively. But won't make any effort to make them happen. I do worry on how, if he does ever end up in a relationship on how it will work out. He sounds a lot like the ex spouses that a number of us have had. Sad as it is for me to say. And I don't see him changing.

He's a lot like his mother although his mother did have a big focus on family gatherings - on her side only. Not because she ever wanted to go - the car was filled with complaints and drama in both directions each time - but because they were "must attend" events. I am sooo glad that I don't have that as part of my life any more.

He has been doing better since Sunday I think the brief times I've seen him. Whether he's dealing with his issues or just burying them, I don't know. I do know that he will actively refuse to talk to me. I've tried in the past and been abruptly shut down - usually angrily.

Most of you here have good and active relations with your children, both at home or distant. I don't. TBH - never really had with S25. I've always had a good relationship with D27 - my adventure buddy but S25 doesn't engage with either of his parents. Never really has although between the two of us, he was closer to his mother. Not that they would ever go out and "do things" together. Contrast that with D27 who even though we are 3 time zones apart, we usually touch base with each other in some fashion almost daily.

Reaching out to his mother for assistance in co-parenting is also a non-starter. I've said that I "wished" that she would do some. Her parenting style, which undoubtedly hasn't changed is to first demand that I deal with it, usually telling me to give some sort of ultimatum or to scream at the child until they dissolve in to tears. I'm as unlikely to be able to co-parent any more than Irish, Dnj or others. There are good historical reasons why we stopped at 2 kids even though the original plan had been 4 and the only reason we had 2 was that I was seduced / pressured in to it. After our daughter was born and I saw how her mother was with small unreasonable bundles, I knew that more kids weren't a good idea.

Sad as it is to say, living with him in the house is very like having his mother still around. Walking on eggshells, feeling like an appliance and taken advantage of. He's a bit more decent about it than she was but then she perhaps had a stronger basis for her sense of entitlement.

There will undoubtedly be some rare occasions when my ex and I will be in the same room for a short while. I'm confident that I will be polite and respect her rights as the mother. Since D27 very likely won't have kids and S25 is showing no sign of having any interest in even dating, such events are sure to be a long way off so I don't worry about them. I also expect that my ex is even more reluctant to interact with me than I am with her. I know the truth after all and she has actively avoided me for years now literally "burning rubber" one day when she accidentally spotted me in my own driveway on a rare occurrence when she was seeing S25.

I'm sorry if people think I'm being harsh here, but these "are" the facts on the ground and what I have to deal with. Generally, we ignore each other and he actively avoids me I believe. He does know that I do love him and wish for him to become what he could be and I do like to think that he's as uncomfortable as I am if not more so with our current arrangement. I just have to tough it out, be the solid and sane parent which is mother certainly doesn't seem to be, and hope that it all turns out for the best.

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A bit of an odd occurrence yesterday. I texted S25 that I was going to be late getting home. When I got home he wasn't here but his car was in the drive. When I checked his room for dirty dishes there was a mild smell from his pot pipe. No clue where he was and TBH it is none of my business, but oddly, someone was in my bedroom pushing buttons on my CPAP machine. I continue to believe that his mother comes through when it is known that I'm not here but again - that could just be paranoia. He got home around midnight, banged around the house for a while and I probably won't see him until this afternoon as usual. If a snoop around my room was had there's nothing to see except for an unopened box of condoms that I had picked up before my trip even though I had no expectation of needing them. That and a bit of dust.

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I had dinner last night with an old colleague who split from his wife early this year. He's doing well. He got his settlement sorted out, paid her a "huge" whack of cash and bought her out of the house. She's been physically moved out for a couple of weeks. They've both been actively dating even though the divorce can't happen until March. He did get confirmation that she had been cheating on him from right around when he noticed his marriage take a turn for the worse. She's also told him that since she started dating that she has nearly been raped and has also contracted an STD. He shakes his head at this behaviour since to him, like many of us, it is so out of character to the woman he thought he was married to. He seems to be doing very well though and has really detached quite thoroughly I think from both his STBX and her consequences.

My friend is 49, about 6' 2" and has been doing cross-fit and is to within 1 pound of where he was when he got married 20+ years ago. He's also a director level executive with a software company based out of Manhattan although he lives locally. A decent enough guy. I consider him a friend even if not a close friend. We've known each other for at least 20 years and used to work together where I was a mentor to him. I did caution him a long time ago that he was prime meat on the hoof out there and sure enough, he is. While in Manhattan, he got on Tinder at the prompting of his buddies and promptly ended up with a fashion designer of lingerie who on the second date tried to hit him up for $150K to "help her get some of her designs from France". He's also had at least a few one night stands. I cautioned him again last night to take time, figure out who he is before he puts himself out there. He agrees but I suspect finds it hard given the sudden supply of welcoming arms, legs, whatever that he is finding.

I will admit that I'm not jealous of him at all. His choices aren't my choices. We were talking about our various settlements and he did a lump sum payment of probably 3 times what I will pay in total. His mortgage payment is 4 times what mine is and he's got his 2 girls living with him and attending college so his daily expenses are undoubtedly much higher. He makes more money sure - a quite a bit more in fact so he's undoubtedly fine that way. But then again, so am I.

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In other news, S and I have a date tentatively planned for Saturday afternoon. I just noticed that a major festival is happening this weekend about 1/2hr drive away including large vegetables - we'll probably go there. It's her kid-free weekend (I think she does alternate weekends) and she mentioned that she won't have to work at her job - so she's got one of those. I did actually know of at least one of her side hustles. I think that her comment about living off of child support might have been a test, or just a reference to how she feeds and clothes the kids. It should be fun and I'm looking forward to it.

I heard yesterday that my new car is very likely here in Canada and not in Japan and should be delivered in a couple of weeks. It was nice to have S to message about my excitement about that. I also heard from my boss - who I don't care for - late yesterday that he is finally retiring. He seemed pleased with my honest surprise at the announcement (I've been expecting it for a year) and at my good wishes for his future. The reporting structure has shifted as he's not being replaced (the company is a "lot" smaller since the reorg and I'm reporting up a couple of levels to the COO as of the end of the month. I talked to my colleague who has a similar role to me and he thinks we're being shifted to be sacrificed next, but I look at it as a positive thing. I've worked with COO directly for a lot of years from when he was a mid-level manager and have always had positive and supportive interactions.

Well - enough for now. Thanks for visiting me on Mulberry Street. You do never know what you'll see there.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I just noticed that a major festival is happening this weekend about 1/2hr drive away including large vegetables...

Andrew,

This is a follow-on question similar to the previous question about the airspeed velocity of an unladen sparrow. How long would the drive to the festival be if it didn't include large vegetables?

Originally Posted by doodler

I'll have to do a comparative study and get back to you ....

Was going to wait until tomorrow to update but I have most of a pot of tea still and a few minutes. Plus a few things on my mind.

S and I have been messaging daily. Just every day sort of stuff. I did make a reference to "date" last night though which got no reaction at all. She's a night owl and I have to get up early so her Thursday night messaging was cut short with a TTYL - 4:30 comes early. Her messages are generally upbeat, positive with her saying that she's looking forward to our adventure.

It's slightly surprising and nice about how little pressure I feel. She's nice, I like her and have known "of" her for years. If things become more than just 2 single people hanging out then it may well get complicated but who knows the future. My predictive powers are pretty much a bust although one of S's side hustles is as a psychic so maybe she does.

I'm picking her up at 1:30 after I do my groceries etc to head up to PumpkinFest (a 45 minute drive

) I was figuring we'll spend the afternoon there and then stop off somewhere for dinner. It's a combination fall fair, craft show and the sort of thing that I enjoy and I believe she does too. Surprisingly she's never gone although I've only been there a couple of times despite it being a "big thing". I suspect that as a single mom with 5 kids that she's had challenges in getting out and doing things. Her youngest is 12 and the next youngest is 17 so she's got some more freedom now especially when S12 is off with his Dad who I think has somewhere around 25% custody. I expect that within the next year she'll only have one at home. Her D18 boomeranged back with her boyfriend a few months ago and will probably bounce out again as soon as they can save up rent money. S17 will likely either be moving on to higher education which means moving or out into the workforce. The other two have been out for years with her S27 living in Australia and her D25 living in Ottawa I believe.

One challenge with seeing S is that I've had to do some research on menus etc as she has gluten sensitivity so I don't want to suggest a place where she wouldn't be able to eat anything. I was surprised by her surprise on our first date that I had kept that in mind. I've done some reading and it's surprising what you need to be careful on. Soya sauce? Gravys and sauces in general too. Gluten is a pretty common industrial binder though in food products if I remember correctly from when there was a food chemical business where I work. I do know that her issues are legitimate and not just hype as our mutual friend who runs the cafe that S works at a couple of days a week has talked about it. I actually know some basic personality things about S from her boss like the fact that she's got at least a form of ADD and is easily distracted. S herself admits to these sorts of challenges. Again, a legitimate issue and not jumping on what seems to be the current bandwagon of people claiming to be Aspergers or OCD when they're just regular people who maybe like things done a certain way.

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Had a bit of a freak-out on Thursday morning when I saw that S25's car wasn't in the drive although I heard him rattling around the house just before I got up. All sorts of weird and conspiracy theories went through my head - several involving his mother who legally owns the car. The reality (which is none of my business and I've not asked) is most likely that he was out with friends, had a few drinks and got a ride home.

According to rumour mill (SIL1) my ex is treading pretty close to cuckoo land. She's been posting rants about her job on social media and her friends are egging her on. Her job that is downstairs from the apartment she lives in. The apartment that she gets heavily discounted rent on from her boss who owns the building. Sheesh. When we were together she had me as a punching bag to vent all this out at. Not my circus. I'm pretty sure that OM is living with her in her apartment which has got to be tough - on him. A bit of karma for me. I know that she was so happy when we bought this big house because one thing she hated about our apartment was the fact that she didn't have "space to get away". SIL1 was a bit surprised as she seems so bitter and angry when I said that as far as I knew that she was perfectly happy and rather proud of the life we had together until she started her affair and got "depressed". SIL2 believes that she's going to circle back at some point, but I really can't see that happening.

Had a long call with D27 last night on my drive home. For some reason the call quality was crap so it was difficult to hear / talk. She seems to be doing fairly well. Is pretty lonely in San Diego. She tried to go out to a neighbourhood coffee clatch but was put off because "all" the conversation was about kids. Her's have fur and quite possibly those are the only sort she'll ever have. She doesn't want to work because she has no idea when her H will get back home from being at sea (currently in the Arabian Sea) and wants to be sure she can spend time with him when he gets back. Her previous retail job was annoying to them because she had to work most holidays. I suggested volunteer work. They're ok for money on just his income. She's been considering that but is still working on getting herself settled. The good news is that her cats and she are adapting well. San Diego is a lot more "hilly" than anything she's been used to and where she lives isn't walking distance to the shops or such so that's a big change for her.

She seemed to be well informed on the details of her brother's life but with a more positive spin on things than what I had. I presume she's been chatting with her mother which is good. Sadly, she's not coming up for Thanksgiving which isn't a surprise at this point. I didn't lean on her about Christmas - if she does, she does. If she doesn't I may go fly down there for a visit earlier than the planned one in March.

She did seem put off by the fact that I'm dating S who she also knows. Not for any apparant reason about S, but more so in I think the fact that the whole Dad dating thing still weirds her out. I'm sure both kids would be happier if I didn't date. And despite the fact that her mother and OM have been down to visit a couple of times, I think it will be quite the shock to her system the first time she comes home with her mother not being here. She hasn't been home in I think about 5 years or perhaps 6.

Well - tea pot is empty. Amy is laying across my arm purring with her butt in the sunshine. She'll be mad in a moment.

Have a great day and weekend everyone!

Good Morning Andrew

It is nice to see you not feeling much pressure regarding S and dating / being friends.

Good for you looking into gluten. MyS22 is a diagnosed celiac, and XW is gluten sensitive - she only tested positive on two of the three tests, therefore sensitive not celiac. I believe her failed tests was indeterminate genetic markers. That was chalked up by the doctors as most likely a failed negative result and further testing is required. That further testing never happened, as it didn�t really matter. The label celiac does have some tax benefits in the medical deduction area, but it is such a pain to apply and such a small amount of benefit that we and son never even bother. Being called sensitive or celiac matters little when your bent over in pain and just wishing and waiting for it to pass.

You are correct, gluten is everywhere. I am sure S appreciates your efforts in finding places that accommodate her needs. I do get frustrated with people who just want to be gluten free, as opposed to people with these very real needs. Or maybe it is more frustrated with the restaurant. It waters down, if that is the right term, the service that should be provided. S22 and I have been asked, at establishments with gluten free items, if he is actually celiac or just wanting to be gluten free, go along with the fad. Of course if it is advertised as gluten free then what different does it make. Well apparently a lot. In some places it is just lip service. We�ve told them, well if he ingests gluten it�s going to ruin our night out. Needless to say, we don�t frequent those places anymore.

It the same for dairy allergies, and I spent far too many nights in an emergency room with my second oldest son and my nephew over the years.

Anyhow, good for you. I not sure how much cooking and baking you�ve done sans gluten - it works, and there is a learning curve.

A home cooked guaranteed gluten free meal. Oh, for sure that would be noticed. And of course expected and provided by you and your sensibilities and care.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

She did seem put off by the fact that I'm dating S who she also knows. Not for any apparant reason about S, but more so in I think the fact that the whole Dad dating thing still weirds her out. I'm sure both kids would be happier if I didn't date.

We do see the world through our lens. You�ve stated the S25 also gave off vibes, and actually told you not to date S (SL at the time). And you sense something from D27. Talk to them. Ask them. �D27, you seem put off by me dating S.� See what she says. Follow up or add , �Is there something I�m missing about her or don�t know? Or is it just weird Dad dating?�. Open the door see what is up. Don�t worry daughter and son are adult and will handle it just fine.

You may be correct, and the reason is not apparent to you, or it is just Dad dating. From my life and lens I offer this.

I don�t believe your kids would be happier if you didn�t date. They love you and just want you to be happy.

My kids have told me they would be fine with a stepmom. They are cool if I date, or if I don�t. They did get excited during the past occasion when I was considering dating K. In truth, everyone that surrounds me in real life was excited and supportive of that. However, that date didn�t materialize. A fact, and fate, I�m happy that happened.

I told D17 about my recent interaction with OM (I posted about it) and her reaction was all smiles and a pretty big laugh. She was happy that I could do such a thing. That I was not hurting. She also thought that it�s got to be messing with OM�s mind.

Andrew, from my path, from friend to friend, talk to S and D. I think they are just looking for assurances that you are ok, that you are good. That Dad is happy.

You are the sane stable parent. Lead the relationship with your adult children. Like cooking without gluten - it works, and there is a learning curve.

Have a great day my friend.

DnJ

Yes, eating strictly gluten free is tricky. Instead of re-inventing the wheel, you might ask her which restaurants she has been to that she knows are safe?

Some restaurants may have a gluten-free item or two but don't have a dedicated gluten-free corner of the kitchen. This is fine for mildly sensitive people like me but a true celiac can get sick from cross contamination, such as their gluten-free pizza being laid on the same cutting board where they just sliced a regular pizza.

Btw in the States the chain PF Chang's has gluten free items and separate gluten free dishwater.

The level of knowledge among restaurant staff is sorely lacking - my friend's son went off to college and in the cafeteria was served a "gluten-free" bun for a week that was actually just a VEGAN bun - NOT the same at all!!!

Dnj makes an excellent suggestion. You do a lot of assuming and mind reading. Why do you think your daughter would rather not you date? Why not open up the conversation. To get what she is actually thinking rather than you assumption. I get a feeling you and your daughter can talk. So why not? See how she really feels. Give her the opportunity to express herself and have an adult conversation about it.

Because I also think your kids would just want you to be happy and don�t want you stay single.

I also think they might not want you to say you are �dating someone � when you�ve only gone on one going for the second with the person. Maybe they worry about you.

But why not just have an open conversation about ???

Originally Posted by Ginger1

But why not just have an open conversation about ???

I actually did talk to D27 about it a year or so ago and yes - she has issues because it weirds her out. The call quality on our last call wasn't good enough to really have a serious discussion but I imagine that hasn't changed.

Originally Posted by kml

Yes, eating strictly gluten free is tricky. Instead of re-inventing the wheel, you might ask her which restaurants she has been to that she knows are safe?

I got lucky. I picked a restaurant that I knew had a menu not based around burgers / sandwiches / pasta. When I said where I was thinking of going, S was all in favour having remembered that restaurant positively but didn't know if they had a specifically gluten free set of choices. When we got they they had an entire page highlighting gluten free and the waitress was knowledgeable. Another one that I mentioned she said that she had been to and enjoyed as well.

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So - date report 'cuz I imagine that at least some are curious.

We had a fabulous day. The weather cooperated very well which was good because I got slightly lost and confused on where to park and S was fine with that and took it all in stride along with the 5 minute walk to get to the fair from where we eventually parked.

I may have a huntress on my hands. After a couple of hours of walking around at the fair, she made a pretense to grab my hand in fake alarm and from then on we were holding hands. Her's are "much" smaller than mine but it got figured out. It's funny because I'm just under 6' tall and I guessed that she was perhaps 5'6" / 5'7" but is only 5'4". Maybe she seems taller because she carries herself well. We went for a wander around some local trails after Pumpkinfest and I took a chance and put my arm around her when we we stopped for a moment to admire the scenery and she cuddled right in and stayed there as long as she could on the trail we were on then back to hand holding.

After about 7 hours together - and some very nice but also perhaps necessary exploration of joint history conversations, I dropped her off at her apartment, walked her the 3 steps to her door and gave her a hug good night with a peck on the cheek. She leaned back and gave me a big smooch right on target. Nothing intense but certainly more than just friends. No invitation to take anything further which I am fine with.

At this point I'm ok with where this is. No clue on where it might go and TBH am not really too focused on that. We do seem to be quite compatible on a number of levels. A number of common interests. Mutual respect for the others abilities and challenges.

She is University educated with a bachelor's degree - so technically more educated than me. Spent the greater part of her life as a single mom which gets a lot of respect from me.

No clue on when the next date will be but it undoubtedly won't be too long.

No new red flags. No talking about "us" and certainly no implication that I was captured prey or visa versa. We were both open about the fact that we have dated others in the recent past. Based on her last failed marriage I think she has a lot of trust issues and I did notice that if I pulled out my phone she made a point of looking at the screen.

I had fun and am accepting it as a lovely day with a charming companion and not as a stepping stone to anywhere.

I did laugh because when I mentioned my destination today at the cafe while picking up my scone, our mutual friend blushed and said "I know who you're going with". I expect that tomorrow I will be grilled over soup - so to speak - and will just leave it as a I had a very nice day.

S25 came home after I'd been home for a short while asked about my day with S and seemed pleased that I had a good day and then put on pants and went over to his buddy's house. So we're all good there I expect.

S had asked that I send her a picture she'd asked me to take of a pond when we were walking so I did that along with a "thank-you" for the gift of her time. After-all, isn't that the best thing of all?

Good Morning Andrew

Your date sounds like it went very well. It was wonderful to read about. Happy for you.

DnJ

Andrew,

I agree with DnJ, it sounds like it was a very good date. Be sure to keep things slow and steady; I think you should wait at least two weeks before you have her move in with you.

One bone of contention that I have is that pumpkins are technically a fruit rather than a vegetable. That fact could be significant when calculating transit elapsed time to the festival. Keep that in mind when you do the comparative studies.

I thought pumpkins were a root vegetable and it�s a squash. My friends daughter is allergic to all things squash and pumpkin is one of them.

The date did sound good. Keep dating. No need to move anyone in anytime even remotely soon.

And I would find out if she is divorced.

And I�ve got a question. I�m Canada, if you cohabitate with your significant other, do you lose your spousal support?

You do here in US.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

I thought pumpkins were a root vegetable and it�s a squash.

Botanically squash is a fruit and not a vegetable. That distinction is extremely important and can impact the land speed velocity of terrestrial vehicles (mostly relativistic effects).

G and doodler, technically you are both right. Pumpkin is a fruit and it is a squash. It is botanically in the same family with all squashes, melons and cucumbers (under the bigger umbrella known as cucurbits). I can send you a fascinating (at least to me since I wrote it) article all about pumpkins if you would like to learn more. LOL But seriously, pumpkin = fruit/squash.

Andrew, it sounds like the date went well, so good for you. Keep on keepin' on. In regards to how your S and D feel about you dating, maybe I see things from a different perspective since my daughters are not technically MY daughters, but once the "kids" get to adulthood, I would be less concerned about their thoughts on my dating. I don't mean I would ignore them or brush off any strong feelings they had either positive or negative, but I would concern myself with my own feelings about it first and foremost. Is there really even a need to discuss it with either of them until it is a serious relationship? You said your D finds it icky and your S seems pretty indifferent, though he did express that you shouldn't date this particular woman, which makes me wonder if you are really listening to them anyway. Several people suggested you have an open discussion and I guess I'm actually suggesting the opposite. Keep details to yourself unless they ask and until you are ready to get serious with someone. I didn't tell my girls every single date I went on. And, I didn't introduce them to Sparky until we'd been seeing each other regularly for about 6 months.

You love your kids. You are an excellent dad. You want to guide them and love them and be there for them and you are super supportive, all of which are wonderful things. At some point in your life, though, you have to learn to put yourself first. Your kids are not little kids anymore. They are adults. D is obviously more independent than S, but he's a grown man too. So, you should date without worrying what they think or how they feel about it. I understand that this is contrary to what most other people have said to you, but I just think it is time for you to be selfish and worry about Andrew instead of everyone else for a change. You aren't abandoning them if you do this.

That leads me to something else you posted the other day that really stuck out to me. You are worried about S and I get it. (By the way, if I already said any of this to you, I'm sorry for repeating myself. That is just what us old folks do.) You mentioned that he won't talk to you about anything and you feel like you are walking on egg shells around him in your own home. ANDREW JOHN DOE (I have no idea if that is your real name, but this phrase required a mother's tone using all 3 of your names to indicate the seriousness of it) STOP THAT RIGHT NOW! First, you compared living with your S to living with your XW. Ouch! Not good for anyone. And second, I get that is S's childhood home and you are trying to take care of him and love him and all that, but HE IS A GROWN-A$$ MAN and you, as the head of the household, and another grown-a$$ man should not feel like you can't do or say what you want in your own home for fear of upsetting him. That is the epitome of the tail wagging the dog. I am concerned for your son's well-being too because I know you worry about him and want him to succeed in life and anytime he doesn't, you will blame yourself. I worry about both of you. I will continue to pray for him and for you and send positive vibes toward both of you.

Originally Posted by doodler

Andrew,

I agree with DnJ, it sounds like it was a very good date. Be sure to keep things slow and steady; I think you should wait at least two weeks before you have her move in with you.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The word pumpkin originates from the word pepon, which is Greek for "large melon", something round and large.

Originally Posted by Random Internet Search

Botanically speaking, a fruit is a seed-bearing structure that develops from the ovary of a flowering plant, whereas vegetables are all other plant parts, such as roots, leaves and stems. ... This includes such botanical fruits as eggplants, bell peppers and tomatoes.

Certainly a less contentious bit of googling than I've had to do before.

And of course as I was typing this up our actual legitimate expert has given us the official answer.

Originally Posted by Dawn70

Well - there were perhaps large melons around, but I did work on keeping my eyes up on her stormy blue eyes. When we got to the fair as they were announcing the winners which as we walked by included "prettiest pumpkin". S wasn't even nominated

Ginger - I do believe that she is not divorced but has been living on her own with her kids for at least a couple of years now. I think that's more a function of not having spare cash for a lawyer than any other issue. By the sounds of it, her "ex" is a piece of work and probably doesn't have the cash for it either. It seems that there was a lot of deception on what she actually got herself into there. She admits that she jumped in to that far too fast after meeting him through POF. I don't think she's getting any spousal support but does get child support from a previous ex for her two youngest. I assume that continued through her last - and by her account - rather tumultuous marriage.

I do know that here at least, any support agreement would specify when support would be adjusted or terminated. In my own case I negotiated to keep paying my ex regardless of any change in either of our circumstances. As my lawyer pointed out, people lie and TBH I didn't want to have to play detective. It is probably "normal" to have it terminated upon co-habitation but I do recall discussions somewhere - perhaps on this forum - about spousal support continuing because OM was a dead-beat with no income so she still technically was entitled to support.

I hope you take this as a positive Ginger, but in some ways she reminds me of you. She told me a story of how she went on a "family vacation" many years ago to Disney with her 5 kids in her van along with her ex and his wife in another vehicle. So she gets along with the co-parenting thing fairly well despite any feelings about the other parent. She also, like me, and perhaps like you - self-identifies as a rescuer and admits that her last marriage was more about her wanting to be married than any real attraction to that specific man. Her marriages have all been brief I believe, her kids actually all go by her maiden name. She does think that her choices of men especially lately seem to be man-babys who are looking for someone to take care of them. I do think that she's dated a fair bit over the years as well and is perhaps a bit jaded about what's out there. I do think that she's rather proud of herself for going outside her comfort zone and initiating the conversations with me and I fully expect that she is wondering what sort of fatal flaw I may have.

As far as her moving in, S can't possibly move in this coming weekend as she's going to Ottawa to see her D25 and her new grand-baby so it would be a minimum of 2 weeks

She also has issues with her two youngest (17 and 12) who according to her have a veritable alphabet soup of attention and behavioral issues. She does expect the 17 year old to finish high school this year and move out to University. I did tell her last night as I was making supper that I only had 2 spare clean plates so that is undoubtedly a major limiting factor. She currently has S12, S17, D18, D18's boyfriend, their dog and her cat living with her (see rescuer comment). 2 plates wouldn't cut it. Nor would just 2 spare bedrooms.

I honestly have no clue of S would make a good partner. My stereo-type of a single mom is someone who is very capable in all sorts of ways having to do the mom-ing and the dad-ing both. She does indeed seem to be capable and I admire that. I do also know that she is easily distracted and perhaps doesn't finish what she starts. She doesn't have a steady income and I believe that she has never worked at a regular job of any sort for any amount of time. Her degree is in English with a Psychology minor. She had signed up for law school but that was derailed twice by getting pregnant. While when I started dating back in February I was looking for a partner then, I don't know that I am now so I'm not really measuring her against any of those metrics.

We have another date now planned for Wednesday after I'm done work to go out - weather and other issues permitting - and wander around some local hiking trails and probably have dinner.

I do expect her to continue to be a bit forward which I actually like. I suspect that she was startled when after a nice date 2 that I didn't go for a kiss which is perhaps why she planted one on me. On the other hand, I have to watch myself to not get drawn in to something - again - that is perhaps not a good idea which is what dating is supposed to be about in my mind. I do learn - sometimes slower than the events that overtake me - but I do learn.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I do learn - sometimes slower than the events that overtake me - but I do learn.

I know all about that. It took me 16 years to figure out my last big blunder.

Quote

She doesn't have a steady income and I believe that she has never worked at a regular job of any sort for any amount of time.

??? I understand, she's still mothering and all that, but if she's too broke to file for divorce she should be picking up a part time job to pay for that!

HUGE RED FLAGS BUDDY!!!!! Stop rescuing these damsels in distress.

Originally Posted by kml

Quote

She doesn't have a steady income and I believe that she has never worked at a regular job of any sort for any amount of time.

It is certainly a concern. She does have at least one part time job that I know of as a specialty baker - but was also thrilled to find $10 on the ground at the fair. She's quite tight with her money and budgets to the penny which is actually a green flag. The lady before this had her big financial goal to improve her credit enough to get a credit card again

She is I know worried about the future and how she will be supporting herself. I do know that she has numerous skills - but yeah - so does my S25 who sits on his butt. And while I do have the means to support another person, that's not really where I'd like to be spending that money. They can't all be doctors

We'll see - still early days. And doodler has given me 3 more weeks before I have to have her move in

Originally Posted by AndrewP

We'll see - still early days. And doodler has given me 3 more weeks before I have to have her move in

Andrew,

The Las Vegas odds are that she'll be moving in with you sometime late next week. Her youngest children will be pulling the cats' tails and the older children will be trying to bum a doobie from your son. When everything begins to collapse, your only escape is crewseekers dot net.

Originally Posted by doodler

and the older children will be trying to bum a doobie from your son.

OMG I think I just P'd my pants. Now THAT ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ was funny!

Happy Wednesday all from a very sunny but chilly Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan. Lots of frost this morning. The day is turning delightful though.

Nothing of real note to report so feel free to pass on by unless you really care about my menu for Thanksgiving.

I got moving in decent time this morning despite working from home as I had an early morning checkup at the dentist. They don't hand out lollipops but I deserved one because my checkup was good. Which at 55 is a nice thing to have happen. S25 has talked about going to the dentist - for the first time in perhaps 10 years but is worried about the cost. I'd offered to pay when he first moved home but he passive-aggressively avoided it. The reason for the big gap despite the fact that I have good benefits is that his mother got annoyed at our dentist and then never got around to finding a new one which she kept saying that she would do but never did.

It was a bit slower moving this morning as kml's book suggestion - A Sailor of Austria - had me in it's grip last night. It's a very fun read - certainly in the style of the historical nautical fiction that I'm a fan of. Thanks kml again for the suggestion. I loved the scene on their first victory being the result of excess flatulence caused by expired cabbage. I am grateful that my local public library had a digital copy. Having far too little time to read, I did renew it. One of my goals for this coming weekend (Thanksgiving here) is to finish it. Library loans are for 2 weeks. I'm amazed at how much reading time I used to have years ago compared to now. But on the other hand - there was no internet then.

Being past the end of a quarter, I'm doing my regular backup of Google and Facebook data. Once that's done, I'm going to remove B's contact information. I have no reason to contact her outside of if her mother passes to send condolences (she's 92) - but it's unlikely that I'll hear about that. If I ever do need her contact information, I'll have to dig for it. My ex-wife's contact info is also similarly buried. Helps to prevent poor choices.

I wish B well with wherever the winds to blow her. I'm disappointed that it didn't work out for us. The cultural gap and how uncomfortable she seemed in my world, her unresolved issues with her S38 and her H, her dislike of this house and the cats combined with my refusal to part with them were all solid reasons why it didn't work. I'd thought about driving past her work this morning on my way back from the dentist to see if she was still there, but it slipped my mind and I never bothered. Undoubtedly for the best.

I think that this happened with prior women that I dated, but I had some hyper-realistic dreams of my ex-wife last night. Haven't had one of those in a while and perhaps the fact that things are moving along with S has triggered that. I was positive again that my ex was in the bed with me. I could hear her breathe, feel her stir. I even pushed myself awake and was sure she was there - until I reached out and there were only the cold, undisturbed quilt on the other side of the bed. My feelings were of annoyance that she was trying to sneak back into my life. I'm sure this "means something" psychologically. Even though I don't really feel it, there may well still be a deeper connection. It's now just under 1/2 my life that we spent together. Most of my adult life.

SIL1 is convinced that my ex's life is melting around her. She's been regularly posting on social media about being upset with her job. In a small village. And with her boss presumably still connected that way

If there is any karma in this world it's that OM is now well within the blast radius of her and her drama. Without the decades of experience I had with it either. Given that she is living with OM in a subsidized apartment provided by her boss to help rescue just her - the number of poor choices here is beyond conception. But not my circus. I am surprised that he's stuck by her for this long in fact. He had been dominant in the relationship when I knew anything about it and presumably is still calling the shots.

Canadian Metric Thanksgiving is coming up this weekend. I pulled my duck out of the freezer last night to start thawing for Sunday. I have no idea if my ex will be doing a dinner and inviting S25. If memory serves, she hasn't since she left. I just continue along as if she doesn't exist. S25 I presume knows my plans but I'll mention it to him in passing. I have rhubarb and black currants set aside to make a pie. Much gluten will be consumed

I'm rather disappointed that D27 won't be joining us but it is what it is. We'll undoubtedly share vignettes of the day with each other. She will often do what she calls "Friends-Giving" on this weekend which always made her H happy as he gets turkey 3 months in a row. With him being at sea and her not having made friends in San Diego - I'm going to try to talk her into doing something for herself, but she may not. My menu is fresh buns, roast duck, mashed potatoes with mushroom gravy, boiled turnip and rhubarb and black currant pie for desert.

I do hope that history repeats and that I don't have to re-schedule / negotiate around dinner. She did arbitrarily take last Christmas day last year - communicated through our son and given how poor a planner she is, putting that forward at the last minute wouldn't be a surprise.

Things with S appear to be trundling along. Her communications are getting warmer each time as are mine at a slower rate. We're going to go for a ramble along a local hiking trail after I get off work and then out for dinner. There's a really nice restaurant that I know is gluten free up around the Beaver Valley which is very beautiful at this time of the year. I might suggest a road trip in a couple of weeks to that area for an afternoon of wandering about in the woods depending on her kid days. I believe she's alternate weekends with her youngest.

She doesn't appear to be barnacling herself to me and certainly not visa-versa at this point. I'm having lunch with a former colleague tomorrow who happens to be an attractive single woman of about 42. She's my girl-guide cookie supplier and an old friend. We'll see if that causes any jealousy - not that there would be any reason to be jealous. I do remember B being very uncomfortable about the number of female friends that I have.

On the other hand, I do get the feeling that this is moving rather fast. She hasn't asked me to fix her computer yet at least which is a sign to me that they are getting serious

There may be smooching later though. Certainly nothing beyond that. Absolutely not ready to cross that line regardless of any temptation.

Well - on with my day. Thanks for riding along and thank you as always to doodler for pointing out the unexpected potentials that lurk in the shrubberies. Perhaps a nice shrubbery placed beside this shrubbery, only slightly higher, so we get the two-level effect with a little path running down the middle.

�Son, I will be cooking thanksgiving dinner this year. Will you be joining me?�

You can say this much to him, right?

So glad you're enjoying the book - I knew it would be right up your alley.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Happy Wednesday all from a very sunny but chilly Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan.

I just discovered that you, AndrewP, were one of the main organizers of The Great Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan Rebellion of 2019. I understand your desire to have lower taxes and wooden sailing ships, and your longing to have Kanukistanese be the official language of Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan, but leading a rebellion is not the proper approach to resolving differences with your government.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

...and thank you as always to doodler for pointing out the unexpected potentials that lurk in the shrubberies. Perhaps a nice shrubbery placed beside this shrubbery, only slightly higher, so we get the two-level effect with a little path running down the middle.

I'm a mouth-breathing redneck and I can't read very well. After several hours of concentration I couldn't really decipher the Kanukistanese in the paragraph above, but if I understand correctly, you're asking me to move in with you (as roommates, not that other thing). I'd be happy to accept the offer as long as you do all of the cooking and cleaning. Thank you!

Originally Posted by Ginger1

�Son, I will be cooking thanksgiving dinner this year. Will you be joining me?�

You can say this much to him, right?

I think I've got it covered by just stating that I'll be making Thanksgiving Supper on Sunday. If he had other plans, he would have told me. I'm pretty sure we're good but thanks.

Originally Posted by doodler

True story. My ancestors were originally from Scotland and emigrated to Venezuela in the 1820s. After a few years there, the colonial government had enough of the "drunken, idle Scotsmen" (this is well documented) and we ended up moving to Kanukistan as a buffer against a repeat of the tea abusing colonists attempted invasion of 1812. My D27 is currently in San Diego tracking US Navy fleet movements which are communicated back to headquarters via SnapChat in the form of interpretive dances done by her Canadian born cat in sunbeams.
As far as taxes go, I'd be fine with them being higher if necessary to run government programs such as protecting our strategic maple syrup reserves. I do perhaps pay more in taxes than you do, but I also don't worry about needing to pay for basic health care.

Originally Posted by doodler

I'd be happy to accept the offer as long as you do all of the cooking and cleaning. Thank you!

The real question - in the peanut butter cookies do you need added peanuts or are cashews appropriate to make them extra crunchy. Nuts will be added to the cookies and all members of the household enjoy them. Or else.

------------

I was going to wait until the weekend, but what the heck. Date report #3

We had fun. S's kids all were looming in the apartment window when we left so she gave them a cheery wave after we hugged hello. Her D18 was reported to have asked in horror - "did you kiss him in his car?" after date 2 when we must have been seen leaning towards each other. D18 is intensely curious, S17 is "meh" and S12 doesn't really have any real thoughts on us dating so I presume they are used to the idea of "Mom goes on dates".

We had a lovely walk along the community trail - about 4km in total. Slow because S's preference seemed to be to walk with her arm around my waist rather than hand in hand or briskly striding. Stopping, talking to and petting dogs was also a requirement. We stopped at a bench overlooking a bend in the river for a while to talk because just walking seemed to make the time go too fast.

All sorts of things were talked about with an emphasis on how we each lived our lives. I think she likes that I respect her opinions - when she'd say things like "the leaves are really red this year because of a cold snap" - I'd respond with "I didn't know that". Because - well - I didn't know that. I'm pretty sure she likes that I also respect what she's been through as a single mother for most of her adult life. It's been very tough by her reports and she also it seems has had a number of health issues related I think to car accidents where she was a passenger.

Her relationships with her ex's is strained but she keeps things up for the sake of the kids. She has no interest in turning back in those directions.

She did relate some funny stories about her dating experience, especially on how needy most of the men she's dated have been. And I suppose as a single mom with a herd of kids, that may be the sort she attracted. She said that more than one guy had suggested that she move in to take care of him and his kids by date #2. I'm not one of those

We had a nice dinner - I'd done some research on restaurants and food choices. S laughed when I suggested that the steak might be a good choice rather than a salad bowl of the three choices I knew of available to her when I added that it would probably be enough for her to take home for the next day too. She ordered the steak. And took half of it home. Which to me was only sensible. The restaurant gave huge portions and I was only able to finish a bit over 1/2 of my pasta.

We talked a bit about a light fixture she wants to install that she got at a second hand shop. I gave her some basic pointers such as what the wiring inside the fixture should look like apologizing for my "man-splaining" which made her laugh. Because of her back issues, she says she can't raise her hands above her head for long. And she doesn't own a step-ladder. I commented "I don't want to be rescuing you!" and said that she could borrow my ladder which made for a laugh. Current Vegas odds are on me installing the light at some point in the next few weeks but I did say that I had confidence in her and her kids that she could get it done. Actually based on some of the stories of her as a single mom, I really think that she could probably do anything she set her mind to. She doesn't have family close by in my area - lives up here because it's where her kids (mostly) grew up as part of the custody arrangement.

Dropped her off at her door - some rather intense and pleasant smooching good night. I could actually feel the rush of dopamine attempting to fire off limerence. She certainly does look prettier every time I see her. I found that with B as well too. It's good in that I do recognize it as a pretty much purely chemical thing I think. There certainly is a lot more compatibility here than with B. I do have to second guess myself though to think about if I'm glossing over things and making things seem live positive attributes which should be instead worrying.

She's off with family this weekend for Thanksgiving. We probably will go out again next Wednesday as that is S12's usual custody hand-off day. His dad has a habit of hanging out at her apartment for a while much to her annoyance to visit with the his two kids. D25 and S27(?) have a different father.

S also suggested that we do a movie night when some movies that I have on order arrive in November. I'm open to that idea. She also seemed to not be bothered at all when I mentioned that I was going to have lunch today with an old and co-incidentally female friend who I am buying Girl Guide cookies from.

To wear my cynical hat - which is necessary I think - I believe she knows exactly what she wants and is thinking that it might be me. I have always liked her - an advantage to knowing someone at least socially for several years. BUT - I don't want to be the rescuer even though I am good at it. I need someone who is capable of dealing with their own stuff. And more to the point, I don't actually "need" anyone.

Could I do "better" if I were to play the field more? Undoubtedly there are more solvent, more attractive, less encumbered with baggage women out there.

In the mean-time I have a life to live without fussing about what the future might bring. I do need to check with my car dealer to find out when it will mean a new car. It supposedly will be in the next week or so.

I am glad that you and S are enjoying life in the "slow lane". Take the time to get to know her and make sure her words match her actions.

BTW, does she like cats?

Originally Posted by job

I am glad that you and S are enjoying life in the "slow lane". Take the time to get to know her and make sure her words match her actions.

BTW, does she like cats?

Her cat is named Aslan and is a big ole marmalede.

Not so sure that I'm in the slow lane. Or even the driver's seat. But the view is nice.

I certainly agree that words need to match actions. There are still a fair amount that I need to learn. Just having known someone socially for several years isn't enough. There is also an uncertain amount of attendant baggage - I expect a fair amount of which I don't know.

A key thing is to try to figure out why at 51 she's not had any really long term relationship. She has put it down to making poor choices. In some ways I see parallels to Ginger's situation in that at a certain point, the cream of the pool of available candidates perhaps gets skimmed off and it's tough to find a "keeper". As a known quantity with not only mutual friends but her also knowing my kids and even my ex-wife to a certain extent, this is a lot less uncertain than the online dating thing - for both of us.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

She said that more than one guy had suggested that she move in to take care of him and his kids by date #2.

You've already cleared the date #2 hurdle. It's about time to ask her to plant her shrub next to yours.

[I may be a tea abusing colonist, by I'm proud of myself for learning some Kanukistanese.]

Why hasn�t she really had long term relationships ?

I might be able to answer that for you. She�s married 3 times and not divorced. She�s spent a good amount of time married. And a lot of guys won�t date a woman who isn�t divorced yet.

She admits to living off of alimony/child support with 5 kids. Most guys aren�t keen to that.

She has 5 kids. Not many guys can handle that.

And these are things that should make you want to go super slow. She seems like a lovely person and dedicated mom. You guys enjoy doing stuff together. I think that�s great.

But when it boils down to long term partnership and commitment, ^^^^^ that stuff usually throws up a red flag and is a heavy load to carry.

It's not the living off of child support and alimony that bothers me - its living off of alimony and child support and being too broke to afford a divorce. Either she's lying and there's another reason she's not divorced yet, or she's not willing to pick up part time work to better herself. Either should be a huge red flag.

I agree with everything that Ginger and kml said; where we differ is strategy and tactics. (And, they don't understand Kanukistanese metaphor speak.)

I'm trying to get you to plant that shrub, and all of the dependent shrubs that come with the main shrub, as soon as possible. I think that's the quickest route to get you out doing what really really want to do, which is sailing around the world and experiencing the various cultures first-hand. You might even find some shrubs you really like.

Myself, I've already selected the prefect catamaran. It's the Xquisite X5 Sail. Now all I need is money. Minor detail.

Originally Posted by doodler

Myself, I've already selected the prefect catamaran. It's the Xquisite X5 Sail. Now all I need is money. Minor detail.

Nah. All you need is some scrap lumber, hammer, nails and a Canadian 1989 Chevy Station Wagon.

Google "Miss Cindy Catamaran."

Blargh. Got woken up early by my phone. Checked and some automated alarms at work were firing. Investigated, got the right people moving and went back to bed. Working through the cleanup now which isn't as bad as I feared.

I worry about my job security at times but with all the down-sizing lately there really are only 2 of us - me on the data side and my colleague on the hardware side who actually know where the bodies are buried and how to get things done. I also had a very gratifying meeting with one of our company presidents yesterday going over the 2020 sales budgets and really felt that my input had value.

Operating without a net is still a challenge.

Listening to Ethel Merman and Fred Astaire from a random video online. What a rebel I am

Originally Posted by Ginger1

I might be able to answer that for you. She�s married 3 times and not divorced. She�s spent a good amount of time married.

Actually it's the opposite. Her marriages appear to have been short followed by a long period of being on her own as a single mom. She does say that her last one was a mistake in that her opinion as it was more about her wanting to be married than finding a right guy and he was in hind-sight a wrong guy with a lot of issues that made it not a stable environment.

I also did some lurking on the social media feeds of people around her. An invasion of privacy perhaps that our modern world affords. I don't think that her final split from this ex was actually nearly as long ago as I'd imagined. I'd thought it was a couple of years ago on a similar timeline to me but I saw a picture her daughter put up of them having a superbowl party in 2018 so it may be under a year for that last split which would in part explain the not divorced thing. I feel bad in some ways in "snooping" but I do like to have a bit of a clue on what is going on.

Wasn't going to bother posting much today but in that place between sleep and awakening two things flashed by me.

One was just one of those odd dreams that I get. S and I were in it, just doing normal every-day things and the image of a page flashed by. Those who know me, know that I believe in the power of stories. It was if my story was being written and I was just a character in someone else's narrative.

The second was thinking about S and the person that she is. I came to realize - and wanted to write it in my story here - that I'm making the usual mistake of looking for and believing in "potential" rather than just looking at the person in front of me. I do in many ways believe that S is a very capable woman. You can't get through all things that she's told me about which I expect is only a small part of her narrative without having an underlying core of strength and capability. But just because I believe that, doesn't mean that she will change in to a person that she's currently not, building a career in mid-life etc. Yes, perhaps when her remaining kids get more independent that may happen - but that's not the S that is here in this particular chapter and the now. And I'm ok with that. It feels good to let go of the searching for "fixing" and "what if" and "possible" and just accepting the now. I'll undoubtedly slip again but for now I know that this is something I need to do both with S and with any other relationship I have at present and in the future.

I'm a slow learner but do learn.

I did hear from S last night after she got to her daughter's place safely and had some visit time. She is really enjoying the grand-baby snuggles with with a 3 month-old which are as I well know very awesome. She sent me a "good night - you're probably in bed" as I was just crawling under the covers - kml - very enjoying that book - and we ended with that we'll chat again the next day.

I was co-incidentally chatting with an online friend last night and expressed some concerns about being taken advantage of as I am the pursued in the current events. She has told me in the past that as a professional, competent woman that she finds that most men who she attracts really bring nothing to the relationship. She was though very positive about what is going on with S and I.

Because I'm an unreformed planner, I did start to give some thought to what I might give S for Christmas if we do still happen to be dating at that time. She does like shiny things although I believe she owns very few of them. The little jewelry I've seen her wear is very basic. Then I thought "time" was a good thing so reached out to a friend of a friend of mine who runs a day spa about perhaps getting S a mani-pedi for her and a bestie for Christmas. Modestly priced and there are specials at the spa in November so no need to actually do anything until closer to the date.

There is a dinner coming up to support a charity that "20 something" has been involved in in the past and that I've supported. It's a Christian youth group. I'm agnostic, but they do good work in supporting local youth, giving them a place to hang out. It's in a couple of weeks about 2 blocks away from S's apartment. S isn't religious at all but it may be a nice night out for us so I'm going to pick up tickets today. If S doesn't want to go I'll still have fun. There's a dinner and a charity auction. "20s"'s bestie is still involved in the charity and is a really nice kid. "20s" pushed me a bit that I need to donate specifically towards her work and was as is usual for her more than a bit pushy. I will probably make sure that my donation supports her friend. I'll check with S next week perhaps when we (probably) will go out to see if she wants to go. I expect the answer to be yes. It will be nice to show up to one of these charity dinners as a couple again and not as a random guy. It would be our first "public" event as well which would certainly pair us in the eyes of the community.

I saw a posting on social media this morning of me from 6 years ago. I would have been 49 and know that I felt "old" then. My wife also I think felt "old" and I recall her thinking of things like the "red hat society". I have no clue how she feels these days but I would expect that she is pretty much only socializing with OM's crowd who are all about 15 years or so older than her. I see so much future in front of me though. Something that was opaque to me even 4 years ago.

Tea pot is empty. I need to go out there and seize the day.

First, happy thanksgiving !

Secondly, you make an excellent point in seeing what is right in front of us, right now. Believing what we see and not only potential we think that person can have. I mean, everyone has potential to be who we want them to be. But they simply aren�t because they chose not to be. The person they are and are choosing to be is right in front of us and we have to believe what we see.

M could have been An attentive boyfriend who cares about me and my life and everything would have been great ! But he chose not to be. So he wasn�t right for me.

S is who she is. Right in front of you, right now. Your decision what you do with that. But you have to take her for face value.

Enjoy your pie!

Which kind of brings us back to the question that has been asked multiple times now but never answered... What do you want in a GF or partner or whatever label gets put on it? What do you want? What do you like? What turns you on? What turns you off? You really should try to figure this out. Otherwise anyone breathing with a pulse is a candidate. Are there any deal breakers? Any must haves or cant haves? Anything?

hello. I've been following along when I have time to pop in. I like what G had to say. I also like what Don had to say. I want to ask a different question though. Have you ever considered just dating as in going out on dates with various women, committing to no one?

I ask because I wonder if that wouldn't be a good idea to do after a long term relationship falls apart and a decent interval of mourning has passed. Anyway, it's something ''I've thought about and I wonder if you've ever considered it.

BTW, happy thanksgiving!!

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Google "Miss Cindy Catamaran."

Andrew,

That's a really interesting little catamaran. I've never seen a sail configuration like that. If you're sailing downwind, you could call it "angel wings." And there's a possibility of having a spinnaker between the masts.

What I really want is a sailing vessel that hearkens to the days of yore. You know, scurvy dogs, shiver me timbers, and yo-ho-ho and a bottle of rum. That vessel would be a catamaran with large berths, a galley with refrigeration, a head (or two or three) with a shower, electric winches, a water maker, a large bank of lithium ion batteries, solar panels, a generator, auto pilot, state of the art navigation, an air compressor to fill scuba tanks, and a partridge in a pear tree. I like to keep things simple.

I digress. If you were to build a catamaran like Miss Cindy, what would you name the catamaran? Would you possibly name the boat after the Turkish Taco Lady? What would that name be?

Thanks all.

Originally Posted by bttrfly

I have a number of female (and male) friends that I go out to lunch or dinner with from time to time. I was out with one this past week and will probably have dinner with another this coming Friday. They're nice people and good friends. I am very fortunate. I did essentially stay single for about 3 years after my ex. The recovery from B was quicker because I did know in my heart that it was for the best that it did end and she never left me hanging.

I do think that many people who jump from relationship to relationship without examining their own entrails and rediscovering themselves do themselves and their new partner a dis-service. I do believe that B was trying to turn me into a more acceptable version of her H. It can work though I suppose. My ex and OM are as far as I know still a thing and that's been going on for 4 years plus now and involved an overlap in relationships for my ex and I think OM was only widowered (?) for a matter of a month or so before he started chasing her.

With S - the original premise from her was that we would just go out as friends and I would have been fine with that. It was purely her doing that has moved things beyond that but I certainly have had no issues with that. At some point probably in the relatively near future I'm going to have to make a decision on how far I want this relationship to go. I honestly don't know what that decision will be although I expect that Doodler's Discount Shrubbery Emporium is stocking up.

I am learning that S does have a depth that I didn't realize before and I'm attracted to that. She is a feisty red-head which is very different for me. Certainly she is forward and not coy which is something I like. She does have the key requirement for me as well which is a kind heart whether it is kids, puppies or even the spider that she stopped me from accidentally stepping on. I also know from when her daughter and my son were part of a group that would hang out at her place from time to time that she was always welcoming. S25's only complaint was that she cooked gluten free and the food wasn't as tasty as he liked.

There's a meme out there where the behind spouse is told "You'll never find someone like me" and replying "That's the point"

Originally Posted by doodler

The junk rig he put on that cat is quite versatile and reliable. You don't get the same sort of performance you get with a more shaped sail but from what I understand that on a broad reach you get a sort of "slot" effect with the two sails. I've never sailed with one, but I believe that the junk rig is easier to furl and less prone to catastrophic damage so undoubtedly a good choice for off-shore.

Sadly I have my 16' gaff rigged sloop that needs my attention more than building something new. I also have a 1/2 done - for years now - row boat in the basement plus the pieces cut out for a small mouse-boat. Just can't seem to make the time somehow. The two unfinished ones aren't named as that is done at launch but maybe if I duct taped them together I'd have a little cat - or more likely something more like a proa.

Oh - and Taco Cat spelled backwards is Taco Cat.

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So - I did it. In the note attached to this month's spousal payment I asked my ex for help with S25

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I have been worried about [S25] for some time. He wants to be independent but can't seem to do anything about it. It seems to make him angry and depressed a lot.
If you were able to guide him along, I would appreciate it. Nothing I do seems to help. Please don't tell him that I reached out to you. It would upset him.

I tried to frame the note as in I need her to do me a favour and that I am not up to this parenting thing. I think that if I tried to portray it as a collaboration thing or worse yet implied some sort of failure that could have stuck to her then that would certainly backfire.

I feel amazingly uncomfortable doing this. I honestly don't think that she'll do anything useful. She does know a lot of people though who could probably easily give S25 a decent job. Or so I presume. She used to have such friends when we were married. She'll undoubtedly question my motives. No clue if she knows that I've had a couple of dates with S. I don't think she's seen her son in the past month or so. But I did it. For my son. I need to keep encouraging him as well. There's a job fair in a few weeks for companies that support the nuclear plant. Good paying jobs. I've sent him the info and written it on the calendar and he said he read the info.

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Thanksgiving Sunday was good. Angst child showed up and was present for most of the meal but his humour changed once he had his first fork-full of pie (rhubarb and black currant) and we started talking about the election. Since I mis-timed dinner and we ate early, he left and went out and voted in the advance poll in the next village over which is coincidentally 2 blocks from his mother's apartment. He wasn't gone all that long.

I have the duck bones boiling to make a broth. Thanksgiving dinner turned out pretty good I think. I did get a lot of fat off but the meat was still pretty moist. We also had boiled turnip, mashed potatoes with duck and onion gravy, stuffing with sausage cooked in to it and fresh buns. Other than the fact that it was duck and not turkey, the same thanksgiving dinner my son has had his entire life. Even the particular way I make the dressing is how his mother used to do it. I personally think that my gravy though is superior to what his mother made as I start with a roux and she would just dump flour into the roasting pan with the drippings and make it there cursing as she would try to get the lumps out.

I'd gone for a nice walk in a local nature area earlier in the day and sent S a picture. I almost captioned it that the one thing missing was a pretty girl to share it with but didn't. I did hear from her a couple of times through the day and she seems to be having a good time and was a bit flirty. I expect that she's driving her herd back today. It's a 7 hour drive from Ottawa.

I need to get my butt moving. I have to decide how much of the leftover duck will be sandwiches and how much stew. I have my ironing to do and should probably clean out the inside of the car as my new car is supposed to be ready to be picked up this coming Saturday and I'll want to sell the old one promptly. I'll probably see S on Wednesday and we'd talked about going for a drive on the Sunday so she'll perhaps be my first passenger. That depends on her kid schedule though. It is a nice coincidence that her S12 goes to his dad's every Wednesday.

S25 just wandered past - from his vagueness about his plans I presume he's having a Thanksgiving dinner with his mother. He seems in a decent humour. His mother always waits until the due date to deposit her payment which is tomorrow so she may not read my note until then. I really hope that we can get him out of his funk and his childhood bedroom.

Thanks again for the Happy Thanksgivings. I do have so very very much to be thankful for. I am indeed a fortunate man.

Happy Thanksgiving Andrew

The duck, mashed potatoes, stuffing, gravy, and pie all sound great!!! Not mentioning turnip, not a big fan, no sir, not a fan. LOL.

I�m glad you and S25 enjoyed supper together.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I tried to frame the note as in I need her to do me a favour and that I am not up to this parenting thing.

Why? Why would you sell yourself short and frame it as you�re not up to parenting? And a favour?

You are definitely a good Dad, and a more than capable parent. Come on buddy, your mind is listening.

You fell into old habits writing that note, it appears too �eyes cast down� to me. Not quite kowtowed, but I can�t think of a good word. If she responds, write to her as an equal.

Anyhow, good idea reaching out. Yeah, I�m guessing it felt pretty uncomfortable. The content, I�m not sure about. You know XW and son best, perhaps this will garner the action you seek.

Personally, if she responds, a follow up note should be more decisive. Be specific on what you want help with.

And before this gets out of hand, tell your son. You cannot count on her keeping this a secret. Anything you write, you might as well assume son and daughter will read too, and who knows who else.

Again this is just me, from this side of the screen, and I very well could be wrong. I�ve only got your best interests at heart.

Enjoy our Canadian Thanksgiving. Eh.

DnJ

I think you need to come from a place of strength when asking his mom to help. Like DNJ said. Why does it have to seem like you can�t handle it. And be more decisive. I think a few of said it before an you don�t want to hear it, but you have guided him. He�s kind of beyond guidance with no direction now. He needs tough love, desperately. The soft hand and the eggshells and the free ride to spend his money on what he wants, rather than needs isn�t working. He needs to HAVE to, because that�s what a grown man needs. He doesn�t have to right now. So he isn�t going to do it. What happened to all of us when our spouses left? We did what we had to do. There was no other option, right?

Let�s just say your ex comes back and says she thinks he shouldn�t have it so easy and should need to pay rent and get a real job in order to live there? Would you agree? Would you tell her he isn�t living at her house, so her opinion isn�t valued? What if, as his mother she feels he isn�t benefitting from the current situation? She may very well agree what the majority of us are saying .

I have noticed it to be a theme with you to be highly conflict avoidant and you want everyone to like you. The thought of friction makes you want to run and hide. And especially with our kids, yeah, we don�t want them to not like us. But even though he probably wouldn�t like you at first, I imagine when his life turns around because he had no choice to be a man, he will come and thank you.

If you truly want her help in this and your focus is on the benefit of your son, you are going to have to be open to her probably sharing the same opinion the rest of us do.

I appreciate the input even if I don't agree with it. If I was dealing with someone who had been an equal partner and with whom I had an ongoing relationship your suggestions may be more on target. The AndrewP that she dealt with was certainly a secondary player in the marriage. She is an entitled and according to second hand accounts a very angry and bitter woman. Not someone who would consider collaborating with someone who she viewed as a possession and useful appliance.

So I'm taking a dive. Knocking myself out so that instead of seeing this as a fight with me that she puts our son first. If for no other reason than to demonstrate how she is the more perfect parent.

Hello Andrew

No worries. I see and understand what your doing. Thanks for explaining.

DnJ

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Oh - and Taco Cat spelled backwards is Taco Cat.

I spent countless hours using the scientific method to confirm that Taco Cat is the same spelled backward and forward. I used my crayons to write it down 10,000 times forward in red and backward in green, side-by-side. They compared perfectly 9,999 times. The one time it didn't compare was when I broke my red crayon.

Anyway, I didn't really think that the Taco Lady's name is Taco Cat. I think Andrew was using misdirection to try to dissuade me from guessing the Taco Lady's name. However, after my experiment, I finally figured out the name of Andrew's Taco Lady friend. Her name is Pali N Drome.

I'm glad that's finally over and done.

I'm glad for you doodler. Now we can move on to more important matters.

Suzanne Somers is 73???? I had a crush on her back in the day. Mind you, she still looks pretty good. Undoubtedly with the assistance of professionals. But good on her. It was perhaps her early work with the thighmaster that helped. I'd try it myself but at my age and level of body hair, there would undoubtedly be something embarrassing resulting.

Happy Wednesday all from rainy Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan. Fortunately DnJ is sacrificing himself and taking all the snow in Canada right now. So I get rain. A lovely thunderstorm earlier and some heavy rain beating against the windows. Perfect cuddle up weather. Miss that. B was never around on the weekends and during the week would get up and sit downstairs with the cats drinking her coffee by 4:00. So ... it's been a long time since I had that.

It's been confirmed that I get my new car - a Toyota C-HR on Saturday afternoon. S25 is going to drive me over although it's tight on time for him to get to his shift at the pub. I reached out to my niece (CL) about my old Corolla and she seems very keen on it still. Decision subject to approval by her D18 who will be driving the car. They may take possession of it on Monday which would be good. There are some logistics issues that need to be dealt with but she does know where I live

I still think that she had had a vision of the future that involved me following her split but that is in the past. It's good that nothing much really changed with how we deal with each other. I still admire her as a competent and somewhat sassy lady and respect her quite a bit.

I've not heard anything from S25's mother following my note which was attached to her support payment. The only mechanism I have open for communication. No response was expected. I do presume she read it. I don't know what if anything she'll do either but "something" would be good.

I had to enforce a boundary with SIL1 yesterday as she has continued to remind me that I need to give S25 an ultimatum, threaten him with tossing him out, what she calls "tough love". S and I had a conversation about this sort of thing how people who have no kids or no experience like ours believe that they have all the answers. I told her "I appreciate your good intentions. But you aren't living this. I'm doing the best I can."

My barber used to sit on the local police services board and is a volunteer fire-fighter. He's told me stories of kids who "can't abide the rules at home" who go homeless and end up in unsafe life-styles. Others including B and S have also confirmed that this is indeed a trend. The best I can do is to model a good(ish) lifestyle for him, make sure that he knows that he is safe and loved and to not enable him in poor choices. I've not given him any money in a loong time, he has to earn for what he spends.

I may have stuck my foot in it with D27. We were chatting via messenger yesterday and she mentioned that she had dinner with a new friend on Sunday for "friendsgiving" and hung out and was hanging out with him again. She's had male friends before, usually mutual friends of her and her H. I only cautioned her to be careful with new friends and that even if they seemed safe, that that was exactly what her mother had said when she first started seeing OM. It's a slippery slope I said. No response and she's now blocked her location on the location sharing app we use. I felt that it needed to be said. Her H has been at sea now for 7 months and isn't due home for at least a few more. She's an attractive woman living in a strange city without a friend / support circle around her.

I'm sure she'll get over it. I'm going to drop the matter and continue on as normal talking about food, weather and cats. But the point has been made. It does raise the difficult question on how do we as parents deal with the possibility that our kids make the same choices that our former spouses did. I honestly don't know the answer to that one other than that we continue to love them. D27 is also 27, and enough of a grown up I hope to make appropriate choices. She did get married at 19 though to her first and only boyfriend who she met online so she doesn't have a lot of real life experience. D27 is also very aware of the impact of her mother's infidelity on me and I think is still angry with her mother about it. On the other hand, her mother had the same opinion of her own father's infidelity. Her own mother suffered through it quite badly although they stayed married to the end.

Not heard anything from S in a couple of days which is highly unusual. We only communicate via Messenger. I'd debated giving her my cell # for texting / calling but don't want to be too intrusive. She does know where I live and we have a variety of mutual friends in case her other method of talking to me is out of service for whatever reason. We are supposed to get together today so she can show me the baby pictures of her grandson. And also perhaps have a smooch. If I don't hear from her by after lunch I'll send a message again checking to see if our date is on. She hasn't picked up the last one I sent yesterday morning as of yet but she seems to alternate between spending a lot of time online and none. It was only tentative anyway as is our possible going out to see the fall colours and a hike in my new car on Sunday afternoon.

I did do some more creeping on her history as visible in social media. I'm confused. I've been able to identify that she was with her H as late as this past February. But I do know that a year or two ago that she was living in an apartment and not married as a mutual friend had mentioned borrowing some restaurant equipment from her that was stored there. I do know that she and her H had at least one serious split during their I think 7 year marriage. The reality is that the timelines don't matter a "lot". What matters is if people have moved on and healed themselves. She certainly shows that much much better than B did.

To get all paranoid, if she does back off, that's fine too. 3 dates does not a R make.

Well - payday here. Time to pay a couple of bills and do the first of my end of year charitable donations. The Red Cross has a matching program that I wait for so they get their money today. I'm adding on the local food bank and a Youth Group to my list this year as well but do need to watch the over-all budget. I do have an ex-wife and son to support

Have a great day all.

You did the right thing by cautioning your daughter. At 27 she probably thinks she knows it all and that you're an old fuddy duddy, but it was definitely my experience at that age that a guy I thought was just a "friend" and grad school study buddy (he was married) had a completely different idea of our friendship that he revealed to me when he came over to study at my house!

Of course, if she married her first boyfriend at age 19, it's possible that this marriage might not last - people grow and change an awful lot during that time, and often not together - but if so, you want to convince her to be honest and up front.

AndrewP

I agree with the last sentence of all your posts.

But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells

Everyone has a story and everyone has his own version of the same story.

That is life. We are all different and must respect each individuality.

Andrew, you are a gentleman and you deserve a person who treats you with kindness.

((( Andrew )))

Originally Posted by Deeka

AndrewP
I agree with the last sentence of all your posts.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells

This is odd... I swear there was a much longer and more detailed post this AM. Now I don�t see it nor any edit note. Where did it go? And why no electronic trail Showing it was edited or deleted and replaced?

Don,

The posting that you now see was the third posting of the day. There was no need for an edit on this particular one.

However, the earlier postings were removed for reasons that only the two posters are aware of. When moderators and administrators determine that postings are to be removed, i.e., it could be for any number of reasons, we do not go into detail as to why the postings were removed. This also applies to when a poster is put on moderation and/or banned from the Board. We do not share that info with the world...only the posters are told why if they should notify us and ask.

Job,
Thank you for looking out for the best interest of us all! ♡♡♡

♡♡♡ those were three hearts . Lol
I could not edit.

Originally Posted by exquisitetobe

Andrew, you are a gentleman and you deserve a person who treats you with kindness.

((( Andrew )))

Awwe shucks (((exquisistetobe))) - I've learned over the last few years that that person can be myself.

What a second part of the week. A lot of challenges both personal and professional. I'm working my way through them. Some of them are more challenging than others.

I did both laugh and shake my head at work at my colleague who does - more or less - the same job as me. He's been anticipating a restructuring for a while and there's not a lot of what he would normally do coming down the pipe. I was rather shocked Friday when he rather openly in an open office commented that he had spent his morning working on issues around his house move. He's downsizing from a large house in the suburbs to a 2 bedroom condo in the city. He just signed a 25 year mortgage for I believe close to a million dollars. He's 61 and his wife is 66. Jointly they make quite a bit more than I do on my own and here I'm worried about being able to afford cat food and car payments.

He was a bit surprised that I was so busy working through freight bill reconciliations and am seemingly now in charge of consolidating the budget numbers for one third of the company. Just going to show that I do truly have no clue what my job description is. But more and more I do think that my position is secure for as long as I want it.

I had lunch with one of my best friends on Friday as well and he's doing well. He was struggling for a while with work and personal issues as well and has come to a place I think where he's being positive. He mentioned to me that I am one of the few friends he has with whom he can be completely honest. He also has a tendency to send me pictures of curvy women in poorly fitting sari. I warned S about that part. It may (or may not) keep her from wanting to see my phone.

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My date on Wednesday with S was lovely. In my ever so subtle way, I asked about her timelines with her most recent marriage by asking how long she'd been in her current apartment. She knew exactly where I was going - didn't seem too annoyed - as if it was a reasonable and expected thing for me to be curious about. She was maybe happy to get that conversation out of the way. Married in 2012. Split in 2013. Attempted a reconciliation late last year that never got much farther than dating which was called off when she realized that the original issues hadn't changed.

We had a nice dinner as well. I do need to I think start watching the budget a bit more because to go guaranteed gluten free we do seem to tend to go up towards the higher end of the prices. We do now though have at least 3 local restaurants where there are a number of options available for her which is good.

After dinner I was "essentially" propositioned. The opportunity wasn't presently available given kids etc and I suggested that we wait for the "right" time and place. Not a no. But also not necessarily a yes. This is following a more or less standard timeline. Date 1 - chatting and hugs. Date 2 - quick kiss (and not asking her to move in). Date 3 - smoochin. Date 4 - negotiations. (took a while to figure out how to phrase that delicately).

I'm still not all in as far as where I want this to go. After badly abusing Google Translate it came out with "quod carnes fortis, spiritus infirma". We are planning on spending much of the day together tomorrow to cruise around in my new car, looking at the fall colours, go for a wander in the woods and have an early dinner at a nice restaurant I know. S said that she'll pack a picnic lunch. I did tell her (and S25) that I would be doing a Sunday supper. I'm planning a pork loin roast. They were on sale last week and hopefully still are. I can put it in the slow cooker in the morning and then do the veg etc quickly when I get home.

If things do go well going forward I did find a lovely isolated inn by a waterfall about an hour away. I don't believe that it's run by vampires but at this time of the year you can never be sure. I believe the owner is a Dr. Furter(?)

The main thing that I am worried about, like with B, is how much she is interested in me or in what practical things I bring to the table. I know some of her "flaws". She has some health issues (who doesn't at our age). She says that she has been diagnosed with ADD and is on medication. Her three youngest kids all have some combination of learning / behavioral challenges - again - all officially diagnosed and managed. It's good that she's so open about this just like I am about the fact that I have high blood pressure and use a CPAP. I don't know - is the key to dating as a mature person to compare your meds and see if there are conflicting adverse reactions?

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As alluded to, today I get my new car. A 2019 Toyota C-HR. My old Corolla Rocinante has given me good service through many years and an astounding number of live changes. I bought her when D27 - then D18 insisted on going on the bus by herself to meet a young man who she had met on the internet. My prior car had been totaled at this time so I needed a new one. Then I was happily married with one daughter in University and a son at home. A responsible family sedan capable of pulling my small sailboat was called for. My wife wanted it to be red, so red it was. It is now almost 550,000 km later. Far away in both time and space.

CL seemed quite keen on buying from me for the asking price and will be hopefully checking it out on Monday. I'll need to empty it out and put the snow tires on it later today.

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I was sad this morning looking out my kitchen window and seeing my next door neighbour's now former partner carrying his stuff out of the house to his truck. I am sure he was no treat to live with given his anger issues but do know nothing about what was the final cause for the split. They were together for I think close to 10 years. Back 5 years ago I would have placed a lot of money on them being more likely to split than I was. Again, just goes to show that you can't take anything for granted. Watching him take one random small box etc out at a time, I expect that the process isn't organized or easy. They recently had their wood delivered for the winter. Given that I think that I will be unsupervised next weekend as it's S' custody weekend for her S12, I may nudge S25 that we should offer to go over and put it away.

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In other sad news, I saw an official announcement from my son-in-law's ship currently in the Arabian Sea. They're staying there longer with no known date when they'll reach home port and D27. This is crappy news. I'm not really surprised as I saw an announcement a while ago that their replacement ship was delayed in port with uncompleted necessary repairs. I'm going to put together another care package and mail it off to him. It's got to be especially tough on D27 who is currently not talking to me. She does have her own care package en-route and I am intending on following up on it in a gentle fashion. It's her right to not talk to me. It's very tough being a Dad at a distance. All you have are blunt instruments and they don't always work all that well.

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Well - I've written as usual until the tea pot is empty. I have a "very" busy day ahead of me as I need to get my usual whole weekend of chores plus done today so as to be able to enjoy tomorrow with S.

Until later my friends.

What a fabulous day. Pretty girl in a shiny new car. Walking along under a bright blue sky with the fall colours all around. Good conversation about things great and small.

S lost her phone at one point and it was nice to see the calm and matter of fact way she dealt with it and after some backtracking it was found.

She did at one point make it clear that she wasn't propositioning me when she was suggesting a movie night here. I on my part talked about how much fun I have with her and how it felt pretty pressure free.

We talked about our flaws and I did mention that in my opinion that I did drink a bit more on the weekends than I should. She mentioned later that her alcohol allergy was severe enough that even smooches could set her off if I didn't make sure that I had cleansed my palette. Much easier to just not drink in those cases I would think. Win win really. No hangover and smooches. I do have no doubt on the honesty of her comment. She'd mentioned severe reactions in the past when she accidentally had a sauce that had an alcohol base.

I was a bit internally conflicted because the restaurant we went to was one that B and I had been to. I only mentioned that I had been there before and knew they had a lot of gluten free options.. Amusingly she ordered the same lunch B had and very much relished it. One nice thing about no alcoholic drinks was that the bill was substantially lower and regardless we both really enjoyed ourselves.

We ran into one of her friends and I was introduced. S is good with going to the charity dinner in a few weeks. It will be good to be out with a charming companion.

She seems surprised that I am making an effort to ensure that her various issues are taken into account including my asking if the seat in the car was causing her bad back issues. It just seems decent that if you invite someone out that you are considerate.

Well. Time to finish the dishes. I just felt like doing an update after a fabulous day.

Hello Andrew

Congrats on the new car.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Win win really. No hangover and smooches.

That sounds like a perfect solution.

Your post has a certain spring in its step. An affect from such a fabulous day.

DnJ

Happy Wednesday!

It was bright and sunny a short while ago but has clouded over. Should still be a nice working from home day. A fairly quiet work day but there's some things I want to get taken care of around the house. The halloween candy needs to be bagged, I'd like to get the old car out on the side of the road with a for sale sign on her and I have a left-over butternut squash that needs to be turned in to soup. That is if I can find time. That and still put in 8 or 9 hours in of actual work.

I may be getting together with S later in the day for a bit. We don't know just yet. She has an audition for a community theatre role early this evening and we might go out after that for a visit and snack.

I've been dealing with a lot of internal stress lately that seems persistent. It's related to personal and work issues that I can't do too much about and it will undoubtedly fade in time. It's costs me some sleep as well which is very precious time to lose. It's not that I'm re-hashing things, just not sleeping through the night.

I was out for wings and beer with one of my best friends last night and as usual he was pushing me that I should be dating around and seeing what's out there instead of waiting to see where if it goes anywhere with S. His wife had had some recent severe health problems which along with a new grand-baby and closing down his cottage has prevented us from being able to get together for a while. He was joking that now that things are calmed down enough he may finally have time to work again. He's retired but drives a school bus part time which he really enjoys.

I find him a bit pushy - which he has always been - but I know he means well. I find it amusing sometimes how many people around me, especially women seem to have the attitude that I'm not someone who should be allowed out unsupervised.

Personally I don't think I have the "bandwidth" to handle dating more than one person at the same time and I like to think that one of the things that my personality has is the ability to give a person my complete and undivided focus.

When I got home last night I got a message from S asking about my day and saying that she had had a crappy one. It seems that she is having conflicts with her landlord who she feels wants her and her crew to move out so that the place can be re-rented for double and ex-H#2 who is wanting to take her to court to have child support modified.

My first reaction was "oh no - it's started".

There was something I read, I think here quite, some time ago that was more or less "If a woman wants you to fix something she will ask you. Otherwise she just wants you to listen." I tried to find it, but couldn't.

So - I listened. Validated. Assured her that I felt that she was capable of dealing with whatever was in front of her. When she asked about lawyers, I suggested that her ex-H was mistaken when he said that legal aid wasn't available to her and gave her the name of my ex-wife's lawyer who is quite competent and tough. I did laugh because her landlord is threatening her that she "knows people" and if I did counter (which I didn't) my own connections are the bosses of her's.

It's no joke though. What she's going through is tough and will be tough for some time. I am capable of being a rescuing hero but I don't want that to be the basis of our friendship / relationship. This is tough stuff to go through for me. Even simple stuff like storing out of season things for her, I'm not offering even though that's something that I would do (and have done) for other friends. And on her part she's not asked for "anything". Nor even hinted other than that she covets my old cast iron bath-tub.

S and I are getting more attached to each other. The conversations are also becoming more flirty. The only future talk / conversations are all short term and about different local places or events it might be fun to explore or things to do together. When we were out we had a conversation about why she's not divorced. She brought it up because I'd mentioned it was a red flag / issue with 2 other women that I'd dated. She's mainly not divorced to be able to keep her two youngest on her STBX's health plan. She'd been planning on filing in a few months regardless. Or so she says but I have no reason to doubt her. She was "very" interested when I said that it had come up during my own divorce that I couldn't take my ex off my benefits if there were existing conditions that she was using the benefits for. She has as good of a relationship with this guy as could be considered reasonable. He still pesters her and is quite needy and clingy and I've seen social media posts where he laments his stupidity in letting her get away. And this is essentially 4 or 5 years out so I imagine that he'd continue to be cooperative.

Well - seizing the day. What things I'll see ....

Oh my, you are such the rescuer.
Good job for not jumping in and offering to take her and her brood in. You DO know that would be a disaster, right? Living with other people's children is hard, and I don't get the feeling you are wired for it. She may very well be looking for someone to do that, and if so, you are not the droid she is looking for.

AS for this:

Quote

He still pesters her and is quite needy and clingy and I've seen social media posts where he laments his stupidity in letting her get away. And this is essentially 4 or 5 years out so I imagine that he'd continue to be cooperative.

No, it's not 4-5 years out, they were attempting a reconciliation very recently.

And this: she's broke but auditioning for amateur theater? Sounds like a great hobby but if she doesn't have time to work a part-time job to bring her income up, how does she have time to do amateur theater? Shouldn't she be working instead, especially since she may have to move and that costs money?

I know you are enjoying your time with her but she sounds like a damsel in distress (who has been one her entire life) looking for another white knight to rescue her. Taking on a serious relationship with her would mean taking on her problems, her kids, and she doesn't sound like a woman who is just looking for some casual relationship while she's busy with her own life. She sounds like someone looking for a rescuer, not someone working on standing on her own two feet.

Thanks kml. You are right on the ball as to what I'm trying to figure out.

I do know as a certainty that she can't currently manufacture the time for a regular job and hasn't been able to for some time mainly due to kid issues and related appointments which can take her away unexpectedly and at short notice. Melt-downs at school are now uncommon but were a real problem for a while I know. She's done a variety of entrepreneur things but then been blind-sided by either health or kid issues or both.

The local theatre isn't a huge commitment. Generally in the evenings for a couple of hours I would imagine as they work up the play and then a run of a few weeks with one or two performances per week seems to be normal for this company.

My cynical side thinks that she could be looking for a rescuer. History doesn't support that she has looked for that in the past. She has a huge amount of legitimate pride in how she's managed for most of her life as a single mom. The reality? Who knows? Perhaps not even her.

She does talk with some trepidation on how her life will change in a year or so when her second oldest ages out of support and presumably moves out on his own which just leaves S12.

Personally, I don't actually have an issue with someone who only does a part time gig or even is a stay at home. There are multiple ways that people can be a contributing partner that have nothing to do with cash. I have a comfortable life and if I can ever persuade S25 to move out, have the cash flow and then some. I live modestly and have no plans to change that.

I do know that she is a hard worker and takes a lot of pride in being able to do things on her own. She's had all 5 of her kids in a 2 bedroom apartment before and managed so if she does lose her place - which is highly unlikely and can't happen quickly - she'll figure things out especially since she's really down to just the 2 boys. For money and such, there are good social supports that I contribute to through my taxes. She is very much a pragmatist I have learned.

Even though I'm doing a very poor job of it, I "am" trying to use both my head and my heart here. My concerns are honesty and sustainability. While it's a necessary part of the whole dating and putting yourself out there thing, I don't want to be hurt again. But I'm not so afraid of that that I'm not willing to take a risk. Yes - I could "do better" no doubt but I'm a big believer in being grateful for what is placed in front of me and not looking enviously at greener grass. That is perhaps one of the reasons why I was generally content for all those years I was married.

And there is also the fact that even though we've know each other for years through common social circles, we don't really "know" each other. Seeing past a possible "best foot forward" mask that people wear when dating isn't easy either.

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On an unrelated note, I popped in at lunch to the hardware store where B works / worked to pick up a gizmo for my new car which I'll need for tomorrow's commute. A certain amount of relief that she wasn't there even though it would have been her usual schedule to be there. I had been planning on getting in and out and while I would have in many ways been happy to see her and know that she's doing ok - it's best that I didn't.

Oh and as an aside, B had suggested that she move in on date #3 - so we're way past that now

Butternut squash soup was prepped and is bubbling away. I may have used an excess of garlic.

Quote

The local theatre isn't a huge commitment. Generally in the evenings for a couple of hours I would imagine as they work up the play and then a run of a few weeks with one or two performances per week seems to be normal for this company.

Oh my - you haven't ever done theater have you? It's generally several hours several nights a week in the run up to a play. Hence my point, that she could be earning money with that time. A 15 hour a week evening retail job would be doable if the play is doable.

Andrew,

I have to agree w/kml. Theater work takes alot of time and energy several, if not more, nights a week and then there's the weekend activities involved w/theater too. I know she probably looks at this as a nice getaway, but if they are "hurting" for funds, she may need to consider some additional time in the retail arena.

Maybe I'm crazy, but it appears that B and S both have come up with having some issues w/funds, as well as living arrangements, not long after you've gotten involved w/them. I hope that S isn't looking to you as her white knight coming to her rescue in the near future.

Take things slowly, enjoy each other's company and go from there.

Do her kids go to school?

So, I really had to sit with your recent post a bit before I answered because I didn�t want to come across as negative. I think you�re a decent guy, a good catch, so I don�t want to seem as though I�m trying to be rude.

You are clearly a rescuer. That�s not a bad thing. I think men who are rescuers do tend to ignore or miss some red flags but it is what it is. You say you don�t think S is looking for a rescuer and history doesn�t support that but I can assure you she is looking to be rescued. Her words may portray her as a strong, take care of herself kind of woman but her actions don�t support that. You mention her being a hard worker and say she has a huge amount of pride in how she�s been a single mom and raised her kids. The flip side of that is that she�s still married because she can�t afford divorce and she lives off support payments from, presumably, more than one source. And then you mentioned something about her staying married so H can keep kids on his insurance, but unless Canada is very different than here, divorce shouldn�t affect whether he can carry the kids on insurance. Now, lest anyone think I�m judging S, I want to say that I don�t know her whole situation anymore than anyone else here does and I�m not judging but drawing inferences based on what you post. I�m sure she�s a lovely woman or she wouldn�t have attracted your attention to begin with.

You referenced something you�d read about if a woman wants you to fix something, she�ll ask and if she doesn�t ask, she just wants you to listen. I agree with that to an extent, but I also think that women who lead damsel in distress type lifestyles (which S clearly does whether you see it or not) are very good at asking for help without actually asking for help. I think you even recognize it because you said when she mentioned trouble with the landlord, you thought �here we go�. She�s also already mentioned her concerns about her financial situation when the older kid ages out of the support window. Maybe I�m cynical but all of those things, to me, are huge red flags waving because it seems like she�s testing the waters. She starts small and then starts pressing a little more (falling behind on bills or having some large expense come up that she can�t quite swing) and that�s how she gets you. I�ve seen it happen time and time again to very intelligent and otherwise world-savvy guys. Just watch out and be careful.

Oh and I agree with everyone who chimed in before me about the theater thing. My XH was very active in community theater and he spent countless hours at the theater each week and even weekends, so I�m not sure how accurate a few hours a week really is. We lived in a very small town so it wasn�t like it was some big theater, but he easily spent 4 or 5 hours a night there.

Keep your eyes wide open and go slow.

Dawn - re: the kids and insurance, I don�t believe those kids were her ex�s kids, but from a previous relationship(s)?

I assumed that but wasn�t sure. However, as I said, it may be different in other places, but I was allowed to continue to carry my youngest step-daughter on my insurance after I was divorced from her dad, so that is why I mentioned it. Maybe I just have a suspicious mind but that just sounds like an excuse and it�s a red flag to me. Of course, my opinion is pure speculation because I don�t know the laws nor do I know what she�s thinking so there may very well be a very logical reason.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I do know as a certainty that she can't currently manufacture the time for a regular job and hasn't been able to for some time mainly due to kid issues and related appointments which can take her away unexpectedly and at short notice. Melt-downs at school are now uncommon but were a real problem for a while I know. She's done a variety of entrepreneur things but then been blind-sided by either health or kid issues or both.

Everyone's life is certainly different but one thing most of us have in common is life throws us challenges. I have a friend who, Lord knows has a lot to work on with herself, but she has a child with both Down Syndrome and Autism. He's in his teens but functions at like 3 or perhaps 4? - at least in some ways but needs 24/7 care and supervision. He's beyond a handful but even divorced she was able to hold a full-time although flexible job along with doing some music performance, speaking and even other work. Yes she has help but her ex H is forever taking her to court for things the judge quickly throws out and she struggles in many ways. If S has time to be in a play and pose as a psychic, she should clearly have the time to pick up a few shifts here and there if she wants to, especially in this economy where pretty much anyone who wants a job can get a job - at least in the USA employers are constantly looking for just about ANYONE to fill open positions. The question is, does she want to? It doesn't sound like it. She may or may not be looking for someone to rescue her - no one can really know for sure yet. But what is for sure is her history shows she jumps pretty quickly into Rs with men - often marrying them.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Yes - I could "do better" no doubt but I'm a big believer in being grateful for what is placed in front of me and not looking enviously at greener grass.

I think the red flags are pretty clear and I think you see them. The challenge is getting you to believe that you actually deserve and can find better. The thing is, you won't find better if you lock down with anyone who presents themselves. It's one thing to look for "greener" grass and another to have to plant the grass and get it to grow.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Oh and as an aside, B had suggested that she move in on date #3 - so we're way past that now laugh

I give you a huge A for honesty! But what kind of person suggests moving in with what is pretty much a stranger on the third date? And it doesn't seem to really move the needle with you. Perhaps I'm the one that is out of touch but I'm not sure the 30th date would not be too soon - I would think the 3rd for certain has to be. Mind you, this really is more about the asker not the askee - This is just so foreign to me - move in on the 3rd date! WOW!!!!

Originally Posted by Ginger1

Do her kids go to school?

What an odd question. The boys are 12 and 17 so .... yes ?

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I appreciate everyone's concerns and kind words so don't think that I'm ignoring you. I do agree with what I posted early on in this that I am definitely the hunted and not the hunter.

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I had an unexpected windfall yesterday afternoon when as I was walking down my drive to check my mail (I work from home Wednesdays) someone was walking up it. A matter of minutes later, a handshake, and exchange of a noticeable wad of cash and I no longer own an old Corolla. I clocked out and went to the license bureau to turn in the plates and then the bank to deposit the cash.

On the way back I stopped off at the flower shop to pick up a bouquet for S in celebration of my windfall and her audition and was subjected to some significant teasing and cross examination. Decisions were made on how sentimental to make the arrangement that were taken out of my hands. It looked lovely.

I picked S up after her audition (she doesn't think she got the part - it was the lead and the only part for a mature woman), we had a nice visit and she liked the flowers. She was very appreciative of the non-judgmental shoulder to complain on when she was feeling overwhelmed yesterday. She is working through her own issues in her own way and I am not involved except as a person to listen.

I am choosing to accept S as the person she is. Not as the person she could be / should be in my own or others' imagination. Whether that is an appropriate person to involve in my life is a completely separate question. It is not for me to try to change her or even to suggest changes that she could make. I know that I have resented it when people have tried to make me in to someone that I'm not or to suggest that I am "less than" because of the choices I've made in my own life. I'm not defending her, nor her choices. Just stating that her choices as a grown woman are her's to make as are the consequences.

This is where I've made mistakes in the past. Believing in the potential. What I saw in the person and not necessarily who that person is. And at times we can hope that the person that they are will shine in unexpected ways because they are themselves and not a construct of our hopes, dreams and expectations.

Quote

Originally Posted by Ginger1
Do her kids go to school?
What an odd question. The boys are 12 and 17 so .... yes ?

Not an odd question here in the states where many people home-school their children.

You're right not to try making her into something she isn't. The big question is, can you maintain your objectivity about whether she is an appropriate match for you?

I didn�t think it was an odd question either. I�m not trying to put words in G�s mouth, but I was wondering the same thing because if they are in school, there should be an opportunity there for her to pick up a few hours of work without having to worry about paying for child care. I have no idea if that was G�s line of thinking but it is what I was wondering.

My purpose of that question is why can�t she work while they are in school ? They are of self sufficient ages too where they can take care of themselves for a little while after school..... I�m also a single mother and I work a full time career and getting a part time gig . I�m just curious why her single
Motherdom is keeping her from holding down a job. So, not really an off question. I didn�t know if they were homeschooled something to that effect.

But with you just said. You should make sure that if you accept her as she is, you don�t try to change her, bit you also don�t try to rescue her and it is up to her to live with the life her choices provides.

Andrew:

You have a lot of women looking after you on this thread, so I try not to jump in. I have been holding my tongue, but I want to tell you about someone in my life that strikes me as similar to how S lives.

I know a woman who has three daughters. The oldest is about to finish college, the middle one is a professional dancer who lives across the country and has married her partner, and the youngest is a junior in HS who drives. Her husband owns his own business, an auto body shop, and he doesn't make a lot of money. The youngest still gets free lunch and is on the state insurance for low income families. I have known her about 10 years. She has not worked since I have known her, and has always had a reason (the dancer needed to be carted around, the younger one didn't drive, the husband needed help, etc.).

This person (I just don't think of her as a friend anymore) constantly needs money or legal help, outside my specialty. Things that take me time to read up on, etc. She constantly talks of wanting to get together for lunch, but is always too busy (and of course when we do go, I always pay). The one I time I asked her to do something for me (drive me to the airport) she bailed on me at the last minute. But she calls me once a week (on a Tuesday am). If she calls any other time, she wants help with something, but she first tries to get me to volunteer by talking about how worried, frightened, etc. she is. Only when I put her off for several phone calls does she outright ask. Her husband is over 50, his job is physically demanding. They have no health insurance, no retirement, no reserves, very bad credit, and rent a home in our expensive area.

Having been manipulated for help so many times and not seeing any other indicia of an actual friendship, I had enough. I started speaking up. I gently asked her why she is not working now that the youngest daughter drives. She says she is too busy (and I'm the single mom who owns her own practice). She says her husband needs office help at the shop (even after they hired a FT person for a not very busy shop). The daughter at home is never home. She does nothing for this child.

I expressed concern about her husband and the physical nature of his job and their lack of health insurance after she told me he had to take some time off work for an injury. She complains about physical problems but says she can't go to the doctor because of the cost. I have suggested she get a job that would at least provide health insurance. I let her know about jobs I learned about. She finally, in a pissed off and brazen tone, said something like, "Look, I live the life I want and my choices are my own. My husband and I have chosen this life. We are good with it. I have accepted that this is my life." My response, so glad to hear that.

In choosing to live what I view as an irresponsible lifestyle, she is choosing to live on an edge that I could not. I helped her for 10 years because I only thought about the kids and I felt bad for them (we met under circumstances where not helping her child hurt my child). Only when she brazenly told me this was her life choice did I get it. And she is right. That is her life and her choice. Guess what, I provide no more free legal or monetary help. She gets the choice, she gets the consequences. I get a choice too.

The calls are becoming less and less frequent (and I never call her). I've tried to shake her off, but she keeps coming back. When she mentions getting lunch, I say nothing. When she tells me about a new legal or money problem (and there always is one), I just say "I'm sure you'll get it worked out."

There are just people who choose to live differently than those of us who feel the need to get up, go to work, make sure we have insurance, make sure we have retirement, etc. In my experience, with this woman and a few others I've known like her (I did legal aid for the first 10 years of my career), they don't really change. As in Dr. Phil it must be working for them kind of thing.

I'm sure S is lovely. But please, make sure that anything you do for her you give without expectation that the future will be different. I'm sure, as a giver, you will want to give and give. She seems like the kind of person who is used to taking, taking, and taking. You don't want to end up resenting her.

I think the concern people are trying to express is that you fall pretty quickly and deeply into these things and seem to keep charging forward despite some pretty big flags that seem very inconsistent with how you come across and the values you appear to hold. While it is a necessary skill to be able to recognize these red flags, as a fixer/saver/sharer, you also have to be able to act on them. It seems to me that as someone who comes across being very responsible with money (a frequent topic on your threads), that being with someone who is not will be very difficult for you to put up with, and could cause a lot of problems for you both in the future.

I agree with others - the only excuse for her not working at this point is that she's comfortable living just off of child support and whatever alimony or temporary support she gets. Her bringing up the oldest aging out of child support is a red flag - means that she's going to have difficulty plugging that hole in her budget.

Honestly, even if her 12 and 17 year olds need intensive help and supervision after school, she should be able to take a morning job of some kind. My guess is her support would go down if she worked and she's not willing to make that leap to self-sufficiency (which seems odd if she's university educated). She may be forced into action once her oldest turns 18, it would be interesting to see if that motivates her to start job hunting or if she's going to just wait until the trainwreck happens and look to be rescued.

Furthermore, she's Canadian. What good could come of this?

Originally Posted by OwnIt

I think the concern people are trying to express is that you fall pretty quickly and deeply into these things and seem to keep charging forward despite some pretty big flags that seem very inconsistent with how you come across and the values you appear to hold. While it is a necessary skill to be able to recognize these red flags, as a fixer/saver/sharer, you also have to be able to act on them.

I obviously can only speak for myself, but you could not have hit the nail more squarely on the head OwnIt! What you provided was so well written and so well spoken and on target.

Originally Posted by OwnIt

You have a lot of women looking after you on this thread, so I try not to jump in. I have been holding my tongue,

There are several people on this board who I really look up to and hold in rather high regard for their ability to provide solid, well reasoned, educated, and well written comments. You clearly are in that group. I'd really encourage you to "jump in" more often - and not just with Andrew but with myself or any of the folks here that can benefit from another well spoken voice.

Originally Posted by doodler

Furthermore, she's Canadian. What good could come of this?

Canadian girls know best how to keep a man warm - just sayin

I suppose I should do a Saturday post even if a bit late. Bit of an odd day in some ways. S had reached out to me towards the end of the week and suggested that I hang out with her at her place, watch a movie and have dinner with her and her family since it's her custody weekend. I backed away from that pretty quickly. I did agree to do some electrical work and install a light fixture she had picked up at a thrift shop some time ago. Glad I did as the previously installed fixture was done in a very unsafe way. The wire nuts just fell off as soon as I looked at them. Not kidding there.
They actually fell out of the box exposing bare wires. A trip to the hardware store for $5 of pieces (paid for by S) was necessary, fixture installed - safely - and tested and it's all good. I'd brought in some of my own supplies and used three fresh wire nuts (including ground) and a certain amount of electrical tape to keep everything in place.

As a result though I did get introduced to S12/S17 when they wandered past who pretty much ignored my existence. D18 and her boyfriend also passed through. I've known D18 for a number of years as she works from time to time at the cafe around the corner. S joked with me that D18 had insisted "no boys in your room with the door closed". The door did indeed stay open. I also ended up meeting XH#2 who unexpectedly stopped by to see the boys and run some errands with them so we escaped and went for a hike. XH#2 seems like a decent enough fellow although a bit flaky. It was interesting hearing them talk about various things in the kitchen before XH#2 knew I was there, school trips yadda yadda in a polite and adult fashion. I believe they've been divorced for about 11 years and he's been punctual(ish) with his various obligations.

Long talks on our hikes as usual. S seems to relish the fact that she has another adult to talk to who actually listens. S has kept her kids informed and said that they have asked if I've turned in to a giant man-baby yet like my predecessors. The answer was no. I am sure that they have their doubts still though. S also said that when she was in Ottawa recently visiting D25 and her new grandbaby she asked about me there too since D25 has known me for quite a few years and been by the house multiple times when she and my S25 were part of the same group of random kids. I passed that test too I was told. It's good that she's being cautious and making sure that I'm bona-fide which is so much easier in our circumstance. For me, I'm finding that she has a lot more depth and solidity to her character mixed with a flavouring of slightly kooky fun.

I suppose that this is rather different from most dating experiences as there is that past history. I was pleased when putting up the light fixture that S and I worked well together. She seemed fine with the fact that I needed to be sure that everything was pre-planned out and that all the pieces were organized before the work started. She was good at passing along the tools as necessary when I was up on the ladder.

So - one more hurdle leaped over in apparent great haste. And yes - I am fully aware that she is a huntress. But she also appears to be ok with the fact that I'm - by some perspectives - taking it slow. I did open up to her that one of my biggest issues is finding the ability to trust which is independent of any attraction.

Good Morning Andrew

Originally Posted by AndrewP

...fixture installed - safely - and tested and it's all good. I'd brought in some of my own supplies and used three fresh wire nuts (including ground) and a certain amount of electrical tape to keep everything in place.

Good job!

Me and electrons, we got a bond. It�s nice to see you ensuring they remain where their suppose to be. Lol.

I did backspace my paragraph of Dad joke type humour, using words like higher state, valence, shell, orbits, potential, resistance, current, wire nuts (haha - pretty sure I would get in trouble), etc... It�s early Sunday morning, just waking up, eating toast and drinking coffee; as I was deleting my words I realized - potential.

Our relationships are driven like electrical circuits. Each of us is a power source. Each with our own resistances, and potentials (voltage). Between two people, two sources, there is a current, a flow, a connection. It�s the potential that drives us, with out it we are stagnant and unchanging.

It is necessary to like the person in front you, for sure; to have a connection. And to want to meet the �potential� person within them and ourselves. We, like the simple electron, are drawn back to our own and other potential sources.

A few days ago you mentioned about being drawn to the potential of someone, and how you are now just looking at what is in front of you. Again the electron - it is wise to realize that you need to have present attraction and yet still be drawn to her potential, and her to your�s.

Potential is what we grow into, it grows a relationship. I see much potential between you and S, and that is worthy of exploring. Keep going slow(ish), for electrons are zippy fast. And even tape on your wire nuts will not make much difference - just as it should be.

DnJ

Originally Posted by DnJ

And even tape on your wire nuts will not make much difference - just as it should be.

This has my vote for DnJ wins the internet. The funniest thing I've read here in a long time.

Thank you my friend.

Happy Halloween Eve! One of my favourite days of the year. The weather forecast is very uncertain so as is typical in Canada I expect a number of trick or treaters to be wearing costumes over snow suits. I pull my sloop out and decorate her up as a pirate ship which everyone thinks is awesome but is actually pretty easy other than man-handling the weight of boat and trailer. I'll probably hand out candy from the front porch rather than sitting out in the cockpit. I'm choosing to skip the rum this year - might have mulled apple cider instead.

Even though it was her custody weekend with S12, S and I went out to a craft show the next village over on Sunday. I am presuming that she had S17 "in charge" and they knew where we were and how to get in touch. I suspect we are looking more like a couple from how people were treating us. After we went to a local coffee shop and visited until they threw us out in the late afternoon. S bought a couple of things at the show which was an obvious bit of pain for her as cash is short and was happy to get the free samples. I made no movement towards my own wallet and S didn't look in my direction at any time as she admired the various items for sale. She did think that I needed to buy a "let's get naked" sign for my bedroom though which remained un-bought.

S did surprise me when she announced while we were walking to the car hand in hand with a big smile that she had decided to keep me - if that was ok with me. I didn't object.

Since S25 was out for Sunday Supper (presumably with his mother), I did a solo version. Broiled steak, cauliflower with cheese sauce. It was in some ways a nice change to have the reduced pressure especially since I had to fit my usual weekend chores into the much more limited time available. I made my very first apple crisp using apples that I had bought when out with S the previous weekend. It turned out rather well even though there wasn't ice cream for it - not something I normally have in stock. It must have been good because when S25 got home he was very enthusiastic about it - I do know that it is his favourite desert. He was also in a decent mood which I was worried about. Often when he gets home from seeing his mother he's in a grump. Hopefully she's guiding him along in ways that I seem to be unable to. I do know that he's pretty worried because the pub where he gets a minimal number of hours has been closed due to an illness in the family and probably will stay closed for a while. He's picked up a bit of work helping the owner with home repairs and stuff. He's still not showing any signs of an active job hunt. I do hope though that his mother continues to engage with him - something I would have resented a couple of years ago.

He seems to continue to be blase about my seeing S although I am sure that he knows that it is getting more serious even if he judges just by the number of times we see each other.

Fairly busy at work for me as I continue to ignore things like job titles. I was running around for the president of our acid division checking production issues (is low mercury sulphuric "supposed" to be green?) and it was nice as I learned a bunch. I've also completed my first round of safety training which I will admit was pretty easy because a couple of the programs I actually helped set up. Redefining myself in a time of transition and being flexible and the "go-to" guy I think is good. I know that S seemed concerned about my concern about job stability but these days, who doesn't have that itch in the back of their head that things could abruptly go sideways.

In the world of WTH - B has resurfaced after a fashion. I would occasionally check to see if I was still blocked and earlier this week guess who popped up. I had a look and she's changed her "home city" from "up north" where "her" house is, to the town just to the north of me where she had been living when we met. Presumably she's still there and didn't get back together with her H. He still has me blocked as do suddenly B's youngest son who she had moved in with along with her step-son who I had always presumed had no clue who I am. Something and perhaps something dramatic is undoubtedly going on. The temptation to reach out and see how she's doing is certainly there but is I know something that I shouldn't do. Setting aside the rapidly growing relationship I have with S, there were things about the relationship between B and I that were fundamentally not working and I can't see those changing even if we both were willing to give it another try. Which isn't even on the table. I do need to determine what my response would be if she does reach out. Friendly but do not engage beyond that. I do still like her. I wouldn't have dated her if I didn't like the person that she is.

---------------

S is having a very busy week but is still making time for us. She met with her accountant on Monday (a friend that does it as a favour) and with a lawyer on Tuesday. She had asked me so I recommended my ex-wife's lawyer. A very tough lady who is no nonsense. She ended up meeting with her son who has joined the practice and said that she got a lot of useful and honest information in her free consult. I don't know what all it was about and it is none of my business. We're getting together most likely for dinner tonight - I'm finding a lot of restaurants are gluten friendly if you dig. She's working at a side hustle around the corner tomorrow and will stop by the house for a smooch and bag of candy. On Friday she's doing a pop-up shop for her psychic side hustle and has no clue how she's going to get it all done. Saturday we're going to the craft show here in my village - one of the biggest in the area and I was thinking of making her dinner and asking S25 to be scarce.

I know that I am well in the grips of limerence. Even thinking about her puts a jolt of dopamine into my system. It feels nice. I've mentioned to her that I have some vacation days to use up before the end of the year and that we might escape for a day or so which she seems to like the idea of. I've done some research and found an isolated inn located next to a waterfall and backing on to a nature area that has gluten free options on the menu that we may run away to sometime in November.

Ignoring the hormonal hits - I am focusing as well as I can on the short term. I have no doubt that S has a longer term vision. She often talks about how her life will change soon when 3 of the 4 kids and 3 of the 5 pets move out in what she hopes is the near future. She doesn't talk about "us" or any role I may have. I still have that under-current of "not wanting to be taken advantage of" which I've been honest with her about. I have peeked into my crystal ball and know that longer term there are specific issues around basic every-day things that we view differently that would have to be addressed along with undoubtedly many many unknown unknowns. So I'm choosing to not look at that at present. Recognize that it exists but enjoying the now and the person that she is and the times we have together.

Happy Halloween everyone!

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Happy Halloween Eve!

Andrew,

I have a huge 2x4 for you...

Are you telling us that in Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan you use the metric calendar for Thanksgiving and the imperial calendar for Halloween? That's totally messed up.

Since you mentioned your sloop; do you know how those of us living in southern Trumpistan know when it's Thanksgiving in Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan? Answer: The Annapolis boat show is always on Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan Thanksgiving. Cool huh?

You seem to know an awful lot about the goings-on in Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan, doodler. That leads me to believe that 1.) southern Trumpistan is getting to you or 2.) YOU are a Kanuk disguised as a Trumpet and you are just here to stir stuff. Now my conspiracy theories are running rampant. Suppose you and Andrew are actually pretending to be the other one, sort of an Andrew/doodler Freaky Friday thing going on. Maybe you are the Kanuk and he's the Floridian and y'all are just messing with us. Or maybe you are even just different personalities within the same body...��..is that why we haven't heard from Vanilla lately? Have y'all taken her personality over? Inquiring minds want to know! Vanilla, if you are in there, blink twice!!!!! We miss you, sweet lady.

Originally Posted by Dawn70

You seem to know an awful lot about the goings-on in Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan, doodler.

I've always wanted to be the Canadian Minister of Silly Walks, but since I live in Florida I'd have to telecommute. I thought the irony would be overwhelming so I never pursued the dream.

I've learned a lot about Canada from watching a YouTube channel named "Cruising Off Duty." It's a Canadian husband and wife who are looking for catamaran for blue water sailing. When they retire they want to sail around the world on a catamaran. They do a lot of reviews of catamarans so I watch their channel and I suffer through the funny Canadian accent and over pronunciation.

I'm going to take a deep dive into what I'm sure is a sensitive subject, but someone needs to openly state the obvious. All Americans, if they're honest, would admit that they've wondered why Canada is a country and not the 51st state of the United States. It seems like a useless redundancy that Canada is a country rather than a U.S. state. I'm sure most Canadians have thought that as well.

Here's the thing, remember when Trump wanted to buy Greenland but Denmark wouldn't sell? No one owns Canada. It doesn't have to be bought. All you have to do is get a cartographer to redraw the borders of the U.S. and voil�, Canada becomes the 51st state. The hardest part of the process is trying to fit the 51st star on the American flag. It makes so much sense that I think it the right thing to do.

Dawn - I think you hit upon something important here. While I can certainly assure you that I'm not doodler, I am not sure that doodler can convince you that he's not me. After all, have you ever seen us both in the same room at the same time? Hmmmm?

And also keep in mind too that Florida is in fact already a region of Canada and has been for some time. Even before the stock market crash of 2008 most of Florida was populated by aging pallid Canadians who filled the early bird buffet tables depriving the locals of much needed potato salad. After the US Peso dropped in value we traded the Stanley Cup and two Mounties and acquired what parts of the now former state we didn't already own. However since we are unfailingly polite, we've not bothered to rub in in the face of the rest of your "country" which many of us still refuse to recognize as anything other than some colonists who we haven't gotten around to ending their silly rebellion.

This undoubtedly bothers doodler a lot having to learn how to properly pronounce poutine and foyer and recognize that last letter of the alphabet is properly pronounced Zed (Kneel before Zed!). Having a British next door neighbour (notice our sneaky extra vowels) doesn't really help as the Brits are Canadians that just didn't try hard enough to be polite although they do make a decent beer. This is the real reason why he wants to move. Not because he's downsizing or has run out of ways to use Venetian plaster, but because he is metamorphosing into a toque wearing, sorry saying, door holding Kanuk. And his own ex-wife undoubtedly no longer recognizes him.

PS - Will trade the MBA championship for the Stanley Cup and a quart of maple syrup. You can maybe have parts of Florida and Arizona back. We will continue our dominance of your entertainment industry though, especially the comedys.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

Dawn - I think you hit upon something important here. While I can certainly assure you that I'm not doodler, I am not sure that doodler can convince you that he's not me. After all, have you ever seen us both in the same room at the same time? Hmmmm?

This undoubtedly bothers doodler a lot having to learn how to properly pronounce poutine and foyer and recognize that last letter of the alphabet is properly pronounced Zed (Kneel before Zed!). Having a British next door neighbour (notice our sneaky extra vowels) doesn't really help as the Brits are Canadians that just didn't try hard enough to be polite although they do make a decent beer. This is the real reason why he wants to move. Not because he's downsizing or has run out of ways to use Venetian plaster, but because he is metamorphosing into a toque wearing, sorry saying, door holding Kanuk. And his own ex-wife undoubtedly no longer recognizes him.

I have not, in fact, seen y'all together. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm��.so that just goes to show I was on the right track. For me the true test will be what doodler calls that piece of furniture in his living room that most of us backwards Arkies just call a couch. If doodler calls it a "divan" then I'll know y'all are, indeed, one and the same. Look at me solving mysteries. I'm like the whole Scooby Doo gang all wrapped up in one person.

These days I'm really big into sailing and catamarans. I don't currently sail and I don't have a catamaran, but a guy can dream...

Anyway, given my affinity for sailing and catamarans, I call that thing in my living room a "settee."

Do you ever call it a chesterfield? That would be a dead Kanuk giveaway too. Where do those double Yankees get these terms??????

Originally Posted by Dawn70

Do you ever call it a chesterfield?

I've always called it a couch. I've known people that call it a sofa, but in my family we always called it a couch.

My grandparents, my mother's parents, were originally from Tennessee. They married when they were 20 years old and immediately afterward they moved to Miami. They had some quaint southern expressions. I always thought it was funny when my grandfather would say "cut half in two." He had a grapefruit tree in his backyard, so we'd often have grapefruit that he'd cut half in two. And, he always drank his iced tea from a mason jar.

Isn't it fun to hijack Andrew's thread?

Originally Posted by doodler

My grandparents, my mother's parents, were originally from Tennessee. They married when they were 20 years old and immediately afterward they moved to Miami. They had some quaint southern expressions. I always thought it was funny when my grandfather would say "cut half in two." He had a grapefruit tree in his backyard, so we'd often have grapefruit that he'd cut half in two. And, he always drank his iced tea from a mason jar.

Isn't it fun to hijack Andrew's thread?

Don't even get me started on weird southern expressions because I have a ton of those. One of my dad's favorites is "handy as a pocket on a shirt". I think such sayings are dying out though. Yesterday, one of my students said something to me as he was leaving class and I said "I'll be there with bells on" and he just looked at me like I had sprouted a 2nd head and said "what does that mean, I have never heard it before...��." Ugh, I'm old.

And yes, hijacking Andrew's thread does appear to be entertaining, at least to me. But is it really Andrew's thread or is it yours? Inquiring minds want to know...��...

Originally Posted by Dawn70

But is it really Andrew's thread or is it yours? Inquiring minds want to know...��...

Andrew can certainly assure you that he's not doodler. doodler can assure you that certainty is never certain.

Originally Posted by Dawn70

Do you ever call it a chesterfield? That would be a dead Kanuk giveaway too. Where do those double Yankees get these terms??????

Chesterfield has fallen out of use here a few years ago and we do generally refer to it as a "couch" these days.

I do find it amusing though how the definition of "South" can fluctuate in the US. The more "South" you are the more "North" everyone else is. Except Floridians who as we've discussed are actually Canadians who prefer to not have to shovel off their car to get to the early-bird lunch specials.

job is I believe from Maryland and I know that even as close as Virginia that they don't really regard people from Maryland as Southerners although I recall being in a restaurant in Maryland a couple of years ago listening to a woman going on about how her daughter was a True Southern Lady.

I know that I once referred to my son-in-law from Georgia as a "Yankee Sailor" - and he was quite offended

We have a similar thing here with "Westerners" and "Northerners" where the purity of that definition is in the mind of the person who the label is applied to.

Originally Posted by doodler

Originally Posted by Dawn70

But is it really Andrew's thread or is it yours? Inquiring minds want to know...��...

Andrew can certainly assure you that he's not doodler. doodler can assure you that certainty is never certain.

Ah yes - are any of us actually real? That is indeed a question worth pondering in this modern age when robots try to seduce us via Ashley Madison profiles - or so I've read.

Originally Posted by Dawn70

And, he always drank his iced tea from a mason jar.

Isn't it fun to hijack Andrew's thread?

Now you've done it and got me started on the subject of tea. I have never been able to get a decent cuppa anywhere south of the Great Lakes. I do know that when I cross the Mason-Dixon that I have to remember to order "hot tea" or if it's a hot day "unsweet tea". I have also learned that Southerners have disdain for anything pretending to be a sweet tea that isn't so super-saturated with sugar in it that one single nucleation point would undoubtedly turn it into a solid.

And my own theory is that you all are bored with this thread title and are waiting to see what I come up with next ...

-------------------------

And now - The News.

Halloween was a lot of fun for me. My next door neighbour was worried that I wouldn't put the boat out and posted about it on Facebook the day before. I reassured her that it would indeed be out and since I was working from home and the weather wasn't too bad I put it across the drive in it's usual spot early in the morning while I was wearing my stylish plaid PJs and big rubber boots. Her grand-daughter happened to be on their back deck at the time and asked if I would put it out so I pointed.

We had a chat later and she's doing OK on her own separation / divorce. Her STBX she says is being decent and still helping to pay the bills but is pushing her to sell the house which if I recall correctly she bought on her own years before she met him and is presumably only in her name. They were together for I think about 7 or 8 years but never legally married. I'm glad that it's not going as badly as I had imagined given her STBX's anger issues.

As usual I was ready for the kids way early - sometimes the wee ones can come as early as 5:00. The weather turned blustery and wet as forecast and so I didn't put the mast up on the boat because first off it was safer to leave it down, I wanted to put it away easily into the shed regardless of the weather, and finally that nobody sees any decoration farther than 5 feet off the ground when it's dark anyway.

People were in good spirits (ha ha - see what I did there

) and a few commented that they always make a point of coming to my house. I did see one little girl posing in front of the boat for pictures too. It is quite the landmark.

I ended up getting about 50 kids so have about 50 bags of candy left. Some will be set aside for Christmas stockings and the rest distributed between S25 and S' posse.

-----------

I was going to write a longer, more detailed post, but I'm going to take that over to my personal diary. Yes - as those who know me will agree - this is the short version.

S and I have now been out for quite a few dates - in the neighbourhood of a dozen or so I would think. She was at the house yesterday for the first time on her way home from one of her side-hustles, saw the downstairs and didn't run screaming. I made sure to leave an unwashed butter knife on the counter so that it wasn't too tidy - something that in an apartment with 4 kids, 2 dogs, 2 cats, 1 rabbit and a fish - she has no recent experience with. She met one of the cats and they seemed to get along well. She was excited to see the piano.

And yes - the ILU has been recently mutually exchanged. She is very enthusiastic about that. I'm still working on my comfort with that especially since the memory of it going sideways with B is still very fresh. There is no future talk or planning. We're just taking it - or at least I am - one date at a time. Situations with both of us being what they are, we both have a lot of things to deal with in our own lives before thinking of anything else.

We are going to be spending much of this Saturday together and she is over for dinner (steak with fried mushrooms, baked potato - simple bachelor cooking - I believe she's bringing snacks). S25 essentially shrugged when I gave him a heads-up last night.

When we were out Wednesday S - who is Facebook friends with my ex - mentioned that she had been worried about the drama and angst she had been seeing and if I was the cause. She knows positively that I have nothing to do with my ex or her drama. There was a bit of eye-rolling about both the drama and the various echo-chambers around my ex who enable her. S did say that she's been seeing just "happy lady" things in the last little while. I really don't care and if she gives me more updates I'll need to let her know that.

I am worried that D27 continues to not engage with me. I'm thinking of reaching out to her H just to ask about a Christmas list with the aside note that his wife isn't talking to me. I've got to get that bought and in to the mail in the next week or so so that it will arrive in time in San Diego. It's easy in this day and age to ignore someone and she has every right to do so. As back-story, I made a comment to her that she needed to be careful of new male friends as it can go sideways unexpectedly even if it seems safe at the start. Following that, any message I've sent has been unread. I have sent her a card with an apology for being blunt and intrusive a week ago as I expect that post she will pick up. I've not tried to call as she has the right to control her interactions with others including her own father.

S25 I think is struggling a bit right now as well. He was operating well in to the rage area for most of yesterday so I just gave him his space. No clue what was up but I suspect it was worries about lack of work and money. I do also honestly think that some of it is related to food. I remember when he was young and his mother obliged me to take him (he wasn't interested) out to breakfast, I learned not to try to talk to him until he had about a 1/3 of his breakfast eaten. By the time I was closing up from Halloween he was still grumpy but the anger wasn't there and after he finished his dinner his mood was good enough that I was able to mention S's upcoming visit. I feel that it is important to not blind-side him with someone like that coming over. He was meh about it.

Well - no clue if I'll post on the weekend, hence this early post. I'm going to try to make the time to get a lot of my monthly cleaning done. It's a priority for me. Most of the leaves are now down although covered with 2" of snow this morning. I need to get those raked up an in to the yard waste compost heap. The flower beds and misc furniture and fixtures all need to be packed away as well. If it doesn't happen the world won't end.

Until later.

sorry to Hijack this thread.

Originally Posted by Dawn70

is that why we haven't heard from Vanilla lately? Have y'all taken her personality over? Inquiring minds want to know! Vanilla, if you are in there, blink twice!!!!! We miss you, sweet lady.

Where is Vanilla? Is she OK. I have not been here for a while.

RAI

Originally Posted by RAI

sorry to Hijack this thread.

Originally Posted by Dawn70

is that why we haven't heard from Vanilla lately? Have y'all taken her personality over? Inquiring minds want to know! Vanilla, if you are in there, blink twice!!!!! We miss you, sweet lady.

Where is Vanilla? Is she OK. I have not been here for a while.

RAI

Vanilla is on hiatus for a while. She's doing OK I believe and told me that she may be back later when the time is right for her again.

you fall in love rather quickly. She must too with her marriages and the such. What is Love to you? Would you say it�s more infatuation? Do you feel like you truly love this woman? Or are you infatuated and enjoying the Limerance? Which is quite reasonable for this stage. Everyone had a different meaning of love, so I�m just inquiring.

I�ve shared those words with 3 people in my life. They take on a very deep meaning to me. I�ve dated a lot of guys after marriage, albeit for short periods of time, but I�ve loved my husband, I loved the connection I had with exNG, and I did really love M, it was built over time and when I said it, it was because it was a commitment to love him going forward him, to love his son, etc.

What does love mean to you?

I also realize this next question could be taken the wrong way, sonkm going to apologize in advance. But I have to ask.

I, as a mother of a 12 year old could not fathom 12 dates in a few week period. I could not dig up the time for that if I tried, and without greatly taking away from my 12 year old daughter. I also have a full time job, which she does not. But she has no time to work?

I�m truly afraid you have your blinders on. Enjoying time together is one thing. But her priorities are shot and I�m so afraid you will fall into a trap of digging her out of holes. Exchanging �ily� is a form of commitment in my book. I urge you to take quality a bit of time to really get to know her. I absolutely agree you should enjoy having a companion. I�m so happy for you for that. But please recognize what long term means with this woman before you jump into commitment again. Pleeeeeease. I�m saying this as a concerned friend. Infatuation can be blinding. I know that from first hand experience.

I have to agree with Ginger, yeah shocker, I know... although it's not always the case, but probably more often than not. But it made me look back too, how many women have I said ILY to? Now I'm guessing you may say you and Ginger are on the same number - 3. The possible difference is you've loved 3 different women in the past, what 3 years? and 2 in the past 3 months. For me the number is 5 - unless the 16 year old junior I dated somewhat casually in highschool as a senior counts (though we may have been 17 and 18 when we said it) I've been told by several it doesn't count, so not counting it LOL. Three of the others were all very LTRs or marriage. 2 of the 5 were more of an I Love Ya rather than I love you kind of thing.

What I do know is none came after a month of dating. I think your first date was on September 29th. Ginger's right, 12 dates in one month is A LOT. Although are you counting a half hour or hour stop over as a date? Either way, how does a mother of 3 have time for a dozen dates in a month - but not time for a real job? Or perhaps that is her part-time job? I mean, I don't at all think she thinks of it that way, at least I certainly hope not, but dang this is all very fast. If she's moving in by the end of the year, a clear pattern has formed.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

I�m truly afraid you have your blinders on. Enjoying time together is one thing. But her priorities are shot and I�m so afraid you will fall into a trap of digging her out of holes. Exchanging �ily� is a form of commitment in my book. I urge you to take quality a bit of time to really get to know her. I absolutely agree you should enjoy having a companion. I�m so happy for you for that. But please recognize what long term means with this woman before you jump into commitment again. Pleeeeeease. I�m saying this as a concerned friend. Infatuation can be blinding. I know that from first hand experience.

I can't say it any better so I won't even try. I guess to me, being in love with someone is serious business. I'm just not sure everyone sees it that way. I'd say for sure B did not and I'm not so sure S does either. I really think you, as someone who seems very adapt at critical thinking, would. Your D is currently not wanting to talk to you, your S has been, well he's been himself for awhile now. There is zero communication with your ExW, I get why you might really cherish someone who is giving you lots of attention. But, what's the rush?

Andrew - I noticed you pointed out you were not exactly comfortable with the �I love you� you exchange but she was enthusiastic. So i wonder if for you, it comes from that need to be chivalrous? To protect her feelings? The problem is that there are pushy people that take advantage of people that want to be nice.

That being said... me and new guy exchanged I love you�s super fast. Of course it could be Limerace. Can you really love someone that quick? But I could also make the argument of Why do we love our newborns immediately? Oxytocin and other hormones necessary for survival of the species. It�s not impossible to have feelings for someone early on and maybe there is new love and a separate longer term love. And then what about the love we have for our exes? I loved my ex because we knew each other for 15 years and shared a child. But didn�t love him love him in a healthy way. So to make the argument that love can only be healthy after years of knowing someone isn�t right either.

For me, I did not have those feelings for my last boyfriend. I think after over a year I asked him if he loved me and he said of course he did. And that he knew it was love because he got anxious and really upset thinking about if something happened to me. I said I love you too - but struggled. It was uncomfortable and not real for me. And i was annoyed that he had felt it and never bothered to say it and still would have not said if I didn�t bring it up.

With new guy I just absolutely love and adore and Cherish and know that it�s reciprocal.

Point I am trying to make is that maybe there are no recipes when it comes to love. We hear stories from people who just know immediately and then grow old together and complete opposite to. People that take their times bf end up cheating and abandoning.

But, in your case and all of our cases I do think you have to be true to yourself. Not because of fear from a past experience but knowing what you feel.

Andrew,

Please start a new thread and link them together.

Thanks Ginger and JuJuB

I had a great weekend with HaWho - er - S - yeah S, definately not HaWho. Who is this HaWho person anyway .....

To answer your question Ginger, It's nice that with S' custody schedule that her Wednesday evenings and every other weekend are free with what I like to refer to as "free baby-sitting". Her D18 and S17 don't mind being the official in charge person on other evenings I presume. Wednesday is also coincidentally the day that I work from my home office and usually take myself out for dinner. It's nice to have a companion.

We had a lovely time at the village craft show and bumped in to a number of S' friends as well as mine. The son of one of her friends had just published his first novel and was selling it there. S was conflicted as it would have cost her a good amount of the money she had for the show. Since it's both a genre that I have a bit of interest in along with it being a local author and friend of S', I told her that I'd buy a copy and we could share it. I had a bit of an awkward moment when the author inscribed it to both of us using my last name. From that and a few other interactions, we very much must have looked like a couple.

After the show we wandered around the village a bit browsing in the various shops that were set up to take advantage of the extra traffic generated by the craft show and stopped at my friend's cafe where S works from time to time for a bite to eat. That really put the mouse among the cats. We were invited to join them for the "staff lunch". One of my friends who helps out there I think was having a tough time picking her jaw up off the floor and later S said that it appeared that she was given the inside story by the owner later in the kitchen.

We had a nice dinner at my house and I managed to cook S' steak the way she liked it (rare) as opposed to mine (shoe leather). S I think enjoyed the fact that someone else was doing the work although she more than once offered to help. She did help with the dishes.

She also enjoyed breakfast and I was pleased that on Saturday when I stopped by the butcher shop that I was assured that there were no fillers of any sort in the sausages and that they were gluten free. S commented that she was very happy and initially very surprised that I take this seriously and remember and that most people, even her STBX would often forget / not bother to ensure that there were things she could eat when they went out.

We had a bit of a chuckle because one mirror that I'd installed in the dressing room I had gotten in trouble from my 4' 11" ex on because I'd installed it too high. S at 5'4" is exactly the right height for it. She also enjoyed the fact that my old cast iron tub is also exactly the right size for her and she had a lovely soak with bubbles, Epsom salts and no interruptions for an hour or so.

I think that she quite likes some of the features of my house.

S25 was very absent on Saturday night to the point where we doubted if he was actually in the house. He did get up and make himself something at around 2:00 am which S thought smelled quite good as there is a floor vent on that side of the bed that leads in to the kitchen.

We hung out around the house until about 3:00pm. S25 did wander by in the early afternoon and I was first a bit annoyed but then pleased that he sat and chatted with us and seemed perfectly comfortable with us sitting with our arms around each other. They have a common interest in American football and I think that S25 will be made part of her regular SuperBowl party at least in part because he knows how to stream the game for free.

We did talk about a whole variety of random things which did include challenges we have with our separate families and also - on my part - my worries that having been burned once in a divorce emotionally and financially - that it did raise fears that I still need to deal with in one fashion or another.

I was proud of myself this weekend. The first weekend of the month is usually reserved for doing a thorough clean of the house. I did throw in a couple of loads of laundry while S was in the tub and could feel myself fidgeting to get at stuff. But I calmed myself down and told myself that it could wait. I thanked S for helping me relax and focus on things that are important rather than being a mad cleaning fiend. I think she did actually want to hang around more - she had mentioned that she knew she had to visit her Dad in December - and S12 was with his dad until about 7:30 but we reluctantly packed her off to home. I then made a pumpkin pie, Sunday supper for S25 and I (roast beef - the gravy didn't turn out quite right though), got the laundry and my ironing done - rather late and off to bed.

I made a point of thanking S25 quite sincerely for not minding that S had come over and for giving us privacy on Saturday night. His reaction was a combination of "of course" and shoulder shrugging.

S and I are planning on going to the flower shop Christmas open house on Wednesday where she knows that she will be subjected to more scrutiny, we have a charity fund raising dinner and auction on Saturday (dress up time!) and possibly another charity event to go to on the Sunday for one that a friend of S runs.

I had been intending it as a bit of a surprise, but I did share with her which Inn I was hoping to steal her away to sometime later this month. She seemed pretty excited about that. I joked that I was able to afford it because of the fact that my car insurance went down by about $350 / year with the new car - which is also kinda true. We have to check schedules. S had mentioned that in her three marriages that she never got a honeymoon. So I think that this sort of thing is a novelty for her.

So - that's all for now.

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New Thread
I have room for your stuff
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2870621&#Post2870621

And no - she's not in the process of moving in. At least as far as I know. She does know where the spare door key is hidden now though.