Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: AndrewP It's a world of laughter - 07/26/19 04:02 PM
Old thread - Turn and face the strange

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2851580&page=1
Posted By: job Re: It's a world of laughter - 07/26/19 08:37 PM
I am glad you found out about the "connection" before the family event. It's never easy and you and B certainly do not need to be blindsided by her son and your SIL's connection at that family event.

Enjoy your weekend.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 07/27/19 02:46 PM
Thanks job. It turned out that I mis-interpreted what SIL2 told me. She clarified that she shared the place with him and his girlfriend. Remembers him as a nice but troubled guy. B doesn't remember her at all.

B video chatted me this morning from "her house". Actually from the neighbour's dock. She was being discrete I believe. It's obvious that she really misses the place. Her trip was to help tear down the boat house that was badly damaged last winter. They're making good progress and things are going smoothly she says. She said she was talking to her STBX about if the place could be shared instead of sold but says that that would be unworkable. It's certainly not something I have any interest in doing as it is a 5 hour drive and there are also the whole "cooperating with the ex" thing which can I suppose work but I do worry about. Depending on how you count, her marriage fell apart about 7 years ago during his first affair and then completely collapsed a bit over 3 years ago I believe with his second one. I recall her telling me recently that he wanted and felt entitled to have both a wife and mistress even if the mistress was being told a different story.

She hopes that most things are done today and that she can get out blueberry picking and get home at a reasonable time Sunday. I am planning to cook up a nice roast of beef. S24 says that he's going to make a loaf of bread.

I was hugely surprised last night when I was sitting working on the grocery list last night and enjoying a beer when S24 got home from working at the pub with a plate of food and sat with me. He was annoyed. The last two nights he's worked there have been huge parties with $600+ tabs. His tip each night - $20. He knows that it's the luck of the draw in that gig but he's still pretty annoyed as he expected a $100 tip which is more in line with norms.

We had a long and friendly chat. The sort of one that I would imagine that fathers and sons would usually have over a plate of curry but we don't very often.

He's very excited about having his license and it certainly is a game changer in how he is approaching his future. He now has not only a secure home base but also the ability to roam at will. Yesterday he drove himself in to "town" for lunch. I made a random comment that I had thought he might have asked me to pick up Chinese food for him and he countered that he could get his own darned food but that yeah - if I happened to be driving that way anyway ....

I suggested that he try to see if the roof rack we have which formerly was on his mother's old car many years ago that I use on my Corolla fits on his Yaris. He's taken up fishing and that would allow him to throw a canoe up on top.

He said that he's told the owner of the restaurant that he's happy to help out for now but that he's looking for a more permanent gig. The Chapman's Ice Cream plant isn't too far away and he's thinking of putting his name in there. The reality is that right now in this area if you can fog a mirror you can get a job.

Along with that we talked about him moving out. He said that he would certainly be looking for a cat friendly apartment and I countered that "the girls" are getting older and that they would be welcome to stay here. Certainly something to keep in mind. No timelines were mentioned and he knows that he's not being pushed out. I think we all openly acknowledge that it would be a good thing for all 3 of us.

He also talked about me moving. He agrees with B that this place is just way too big and doesn't "get" the emotional connection that I have to it. I tried to explain but it didn't hit. I talked about all the happy memories that I have here which certainly could be interpreted as also involving his mother. I will admit that it does make me sad to know that those good times - and yes - the not quite so good ones - are permanently in the past. I did state bluntly though that because of the divorce that I don't have much equity available to me and moving would be difficult to finance. I did mention though that B may be coming in to some capital and she may make other choices. What my own choice would be in that circumstance I honestly don't know.

We also talked about my future with B. S24 firmly stated that he didn't think that I would ever get married again. I do believe that he does indeed remember and recognize how badly hurt I was by his mother and her antics. Presumably he separates her actions from the person as I believe they get along perfectly fine. That no longer bothers me but it did and quite a bit at one point. Now that he's independently mobile it would be interesting to see if he spends more time with her. I doubt it.

I did tell S24 that I would definitely be seeing a lawyer before long and putting in a cohabitation agreement in place. I honestly don't know how I feel about re-marriage but let his comment slide. I did mention though that I hoped that if anything happened to me that he and his sister would let B stay here for a couple of years to get herself sorted out which got me an "of course" shrug.

We also talked about my maybe getting what in some places is called a "tempo" - a tarp covered garage that I could maybe put my sailboat in and work on it and get it finally back on the water. They are about $500 which is a fair bit of money. The 'Bear is about 23' long even if only 16' on deck and about 6' across the beam at the widest spot. Having a place to go and putter on it would be good. I may investigate further.

So yeah - good chat. I could really feel the positivity coming from him. Even if he has a set-back he's really made a shift. Even though she'll never know it, I am grateful to his mother for being the catalyst to get him moving. He's working at the pub again tonight so I'm planning on picking up a steak while I'm grocery shopping for my dinner. Steak, fried mushrooms, baked potato, steamed cauliflower. MMMMMM If the weather cooperates I may sit in the back yard with a glass (or two) of wine and a small fire in my fire pit.

--------------

On another topic but worth mentioning, B has a complicated thing going on with her S38 and the two GK that obliged her to go to court this past week as custody is still being sorted out. She was chastised about the fact that she has moved out when she has part custody. Her explanation fits the facts but was interesting as it showed her perspective. She stated that she started moving in when she was sick in part because of the mold in her apartment (now dealt with - and the boys were living elsewhere at the time) and then just gradually shifted things. She is less than 10 minutes away, sees the boys almost every day and I don't believe it to be an issue. As is the situation I suppose with such matters, what was supposed to have been finalized in June has now been pushed to mid September.

That in some ways goes along with my own narrative that she moved in here and early more because of circumstances of it making sense rather than pushing an agenda.

Well - my tea pot is empty. Busy agenda today because I'm unsupervised. Banking, I promised B that I would go to an open house in a new subdivision, there's an art show at a local church that I like going to, butcher shop for more garlic farmer's sausages (they seem to evaporate here), groceries, my fresh roses of course, scone from the cafe around the corner, a stop at the local cidery to pick up some wine and cider, laundry, cutting the grass, work on the flower beds, checking the wiring harness on my car's trailer hitch, picking more black currants and yes - some sitting down I hope. I have two unsupervised days to get it done.

A bien tot mes amis.
Posted By: DnJ Re: It's a world of laughter - 07/28/19 01:15 PM
Good Morning Andrew

Day two of unsupervised frivolity. smile

How much of your work list did you accomplish? Hopefully, sitting down and enjoying a glass (or two) was made a priority.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
We had a long and friendly chat. The sort of one that I would imagine that fathers and sons would usually have over a plate of curry but we don't very often.

It sounded like a very good chat. His car, license, and his new freedom will expand his horizons, a lot. Like you said, there is a shift with him. Looking for a more permanent job, looking towards moving out, and even offering his opinion on you and B, and the keeping of the house. He’s in the driver’s seat, adjusted his mirror, and is taking control of his life.

Following his role model, methinks.

Enjoy the day.

DnJ
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 07/28/19 03:44 PM
Thanks DnJ - I got a fair bit of my list done and was continuously busy up until about 7:00 when I got to making my supper. Thunder storms were threatening so no BBQ or fire. The trailer wiring is definitely bad on the car side. I cut it back well beyond where it would have been crimped by the hood (I always install in the trunk) and still only get a left turn signal. More choices to be made. There's a clunk in the front end when I go over bumps now too that's getting looked at when I take the car to the dealer for an oil change in a couple of weeks.

Roughly 540,000 km on the Corolla. I have a brochure for a new Toyota C-HR. As I was telling S24 just now though, money is still tight and not having to make car payments is a good thing. As I was making my service call I was chatting with the tech who lived just down the street from B back in the day. I commented that S24 got his license and that B helped him practice and her response was "of course" that B was really great with people and that she was capable of much. It's nice to get independent verification on what people think of her. We've bumped in to other friends of her's here and there and they are all happy and enthusiastic to see her.

I did mention that B hasn't had much chance to contribute much to the family budget which is part of what is making things tight - not that S24 has anything to judge on that as he doesn't contribute at all. Actually if either of them chipped in what it costs to have them here, the car payments would be covered.

No clue when B will be home today. Given that it's a minimum 5 hour drive and there will be weekend traffic on much of her route I'm not expecting her home for dinner. I'll probably be in bed in fact.

She really misses that place and is on amicable terms with her STBX. I have few worries about them getting back together but it certainly does cross my mind. It's interesting because she has said that she was reluctant to go up there, her husband was in a deep depression much of the time and difficult to live with, his first affair started after they were there only a couple of years, there were leeches in the lake, the house renovations were poorly done, she was isolated from her friends and family etc, she does indeed have quite a bit of fondness for that place and that time of her life.

Well - the grass cutting and flower beds are still on my list. I'm going to put the trailer wiring back together even though much of it doesn't work, I have a fair bit of ironing to do etc. I may have a nice soak int the tub though too. Picking black currants may or may not happen. I do have a fair amount in the freezer already.

The roast of beef is in the slow cooker.

It's a hot and steamy glorious day here. Time for me to get to it.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: It's a world of laughter - 07/29/19 12:33 PM
Did B have a legal agreement to be living with S38 and the grandkids?
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 07/29/19 01:02 PM
Originally Posted by Ginger1
Did B have a legal agreement to be living with S38 and the grandkids?
It's complicated.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: It's a world of laughter - 07/29/19 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by AndrewP
Originally Posted by Ginger1
Did B have a legal agreement to be living with S38 and the grandkids?
It's complicated.


That's code for yes, you know. wink

Originally Posted by AndrewP
She really misses that place and is on amicable terms with her STBX. I have few worries about them getting back together but it certainly does cross my mind. It's interesting because she has said that she was reluctant to go up there, her husband was in a deep depression much of the time and difficult to live with, his first affair started after they were there only a couple of years, there were leeches in the lake, the house renovations were poorly done, she was isolated from her friends and family etc, she does indeed have quite a bit of fondness for that place and that time of her life.


Oh Andrew....dear Andrew....you are absolutely one of my favorite people and I so enjoy reading your posts and am thrilled that you and B found each other. I think you have made some wise choices, even if it did move quickly and since we are in the same ballpark age-wise, I get why you do some of the things that you do. Having said that, though, one of the things that I do NOT get (and have chastised you for repeatedly) is this seeming obsession (for lack of a better word, because it really isn't obsession...curiosity may be a better word) that you have for what your XW if feeling, thinking, doing, saying, etc where you are concerned. So, your above statement makes me wonder if B were a fly on the wall here in DB land and saw some of your XW musings, would she feel the same about your situation that you do about hers? Meaning, would she say she has few worries that y'all will get back together, but it does occasionally cross her mind? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I think y'all would, but I just wonder at what point people just come to terms with the past being in the past and start looking forward. It may well be more difficult in B's situation since she is still technically married, but it does seem clear that while legally she is still married, she is divorced in every other sense.

You have a past with your XW. You will always have a link to her because of your children. But your children are adults now, so the minutia of their dealings with their mother has absolutely NOTHING to do with you. The sooner you set yourself free of all that, the more at peace you will be. I really had to war with myself awhile back when you made a few posts about B seeing your XW's car parked across the street because she was buying flowers or something to that effect. I wanted to scream SO WHAT? It's a free country and she can move about it, just as you can going wherever whenever. B and her STBX should be the same way. You and B are in this for the foreseeable future. Of course neither of you have a crystal ball to know if it will be a lifelong commitment, but if that is what you both want, I certainly hope it works out that way. But, having said that, focus on each other and quit worrying about your XW and her STBX and just enjoy each other and the time that is set right in front of you.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 07/31/19 04:18 PM
Well - Wednesday. Time to examine some entrails.

Originally Posted by Dawn70
one of the things that I do NOT get (and have chastised you for repeatedly) is this seeming obsession (for lack of a better word, because it really isn't obsession...curiosity may be a better word) that you have for what your XW if feeling, thinking, doing, saying, etc where you are concerned. So, your above statement makes me wonder if B were a fly on the wall here in DB land and saw some of your XW musings, would she feel the same about your situation that you do about hers? Meaning, would she say she has few worries that y'all will get back together, but it does occasionally cross her mind? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I think y'all would, but I just wonder at what point people just come to terms with the past being in the past and start looking forward. It may well be more difficult in B's situation since she is still technically married, but it does seem clear that while legally she is still married, she is divorced in every other sense.

Thanks Dawn. Yes - we don't see eye to eye on this. I'm finding that recent events indicate that I'm getting less stressed about her as she seems to be getting her life in order. Yes - I still have that statue of The Knight of the Rueful Countenance on my desk and he is a focus of my trip to Madrid in about 6 weeks. For the longest time I expected that she was following what is the "MLC Script" and was worried that she would hit her form of rock bottom and look for rescue. I'm a lot less worried about that now. She and OM seem to have some sort of arrangement that I know nothing about that appears to work for them. It's perhaps kind of like watching Nascar and hoping that there won't be a crash but also knowing that that can be the most exciting part.

In other news B did actually make it home in time for Sunday supper. I was struggling a bit trying to get everything ready including the extra I had to add for her and she took over the gravy I was working on. She poured in a bunch of corn starch, it thickened right up and tasted ok even if it wasn't the way I would have done it. I made sure to thank her although as people here could imagine, I was a bit put out. It certainly isn't the way that I had intended the gravy to be made.

I think one of her concerns was the fact that I did have a drink in hand while I was cooking and yes - had had a 6 pack over the course of the entire afternoon including while ironing. She told me later that she had gotten seriously drunk one night after leaving her first husband and almost badly scalded herself and that perhaps explains her terror of the combination of hot food and alcohol. Something we'll need to work through I suppose. She does go on quite regularly that if I stopped drinking beer that my weight would go down faster and my health would be better. She herself drinks very little.

It's funny - even though thus far she's proven that she's a decent cook, I think I'm actually better at many things than she is. She certainly has some things like potato salad and deviled eggs (a favourite of S24 and I) that are beyond my repertoire, but where I focus on taking my time and quality ingredients, she has the shortcuts of a woman who was feeding 8 people every day for much of her adult life.

She and by extension I have been making changes in our diet. I did laugh because she adds things I like like potatoes to dinner on my plate but not her's. Not that she's trying to sabotage me. I think that's just the way that her brain works.

Lately I've been making part of B's lunch for her when I make my own. Her part consists of 2 hard boiled eggs. Last night she did them herself, then went and sat in the living room and got on the phone with her daughter while the pot boiled dry and then one of the eggs exploded. Le sigh. The pot is in soaking. It made me grumpy but other than warning that the other egg could also explode I said nothing. It didn't seem to bother her as much as I would have thought it would. By her comments, this wasn't the first time that happened.

Similar to Ginger1 perhaps I have to work on managing my expectations. B joked last night that she's been living out of her car so much lately that she perhaps has more laundry in there than in the hamper. I honestly can't remember a weekend since she moved in that hasn't involved her being away for at least an overnight or hasn't involved the grandkids being part of it. Her response is that in the summer that this is what she has been used to since she was a little girl. In some ways I can have some sympathy for her STBX and his complaints that he missed her which was his reason for his first affair. In some ways it's good in that I get to have time for myself although there is an extra load taking care of a house with 3 people in it vs 2 but it's not what I expected.

My stance on staying in the house with the cats is firming. B has certainly had a dialogue with S24 about him moving out with the cats which I support and doesn't seem to bother him and in fact appears to be a running joke. Odd as it may sound, if B were to give me an ultimatum - which is highly doubtful she would - I'd help her pack. Letting go is something I've learned a lot about in the last few years. I went to an open house on the weekend that B wanted me to go to. Nice enough house - about 5 times what I could get for this place and not at all comfortable to me. Yes it was undecorated but it seemed sterile and cold. I showed B the pictures and she didn't seem keen on it either but perhaps not for the same reasons. I do think that much of her vision of a house, like mine is based on what she had before. She did pass on a little vignette from her STBX where he kept referring the "his home" and she "the house". I think that says a lot.

B's good intentions on helping around the house have been consistently derailed by her having other priorities. Mostly related to S38 who after all had more than a year of having his mother right at hand. But also the other kids and GK who are around. This weekend, which is when B will be meeting my family for the first time, she can spare me a couple of hours on Saturday as she will be at the cottage with her traditional weekend away with one of the GD and one of her sons will also be there. So we'll take separate cars and I'll hang out with family while she heads back to the lake. So yet another weekend where I'll be alone on Saturday and Sunday mornings.

I do have a slight bit of stress about the family event. I saw a message that CL who I dated last fall and who technically qualifies as family is thinking of being there. It would be nice to see her, but also awkward. She and B are as opposite as it could be possible to be while still being the same gender and species.

I did have a talk last night with B about the fact that it bothers me how S24 takes me for granted and takes advantage of me. An unspoken bit of that perhaps is that I do feel that way about B herself. As I've mentioned before, this seems more like a convenient place to park for now rather than something she is wanting to be a home. I do hope that I'm wrong. Due undoubtedly to constraints on her time, she's done essentially no unpacking beyond the essentials. Most of the stuff is household goods and decor and is unessential and had been stored for the last couple of years anyway.

I don't want this to sound like I'm unappreciative of having her in my life for the amount of time that she is able to give me. I think that even if we'd just dated for the 6 months that we've known each other that these same issues would exist and also be a bit of a surprise and something needing to be worked through.

Well - time to wrap this up I suppose. My cat Amy is laying on my desk kneading my arm with her paws and purring. She was unhappy with me earlier when I didn't get up promptly enough to give her breakfast and she'll be very unhappy later when I take her and her sister to the vet for their annual shots. It's a lovely day here and I may try to get out shortly for a bit of a walk which I miss.
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 07/31/19 04:37 PM
Quote
She poured in a bunch of corn starch, it thickened right up and tasted ok even if it wasn't the way I would have done it


Hahahahaha

If your biggest problem is she didn't make the gravy the way you would have but it turned out all right - you definitely need to loosen up a little bit! I think you're right, that her cooking style may reflect the "git 'er done" culinary philosophy.

You might have been happier with a "together, living apart" arrangement like in that recent Wall Street Journal article I mentioned, but since this is where you are, the challenge for YOU is to learn how to be more relaxed about things, or if that is not possible, to arrange things better so that you're not in a position to be bothered. For example, my boyfriend cooks dinner when he is here. I let him because I know that he likes to do things a particular way and me helping is just more stress for him.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/01/19 09:43 AM
Hi Andrew,
Well the gravy was ok even if it was made differently - yes, there's many different ways to do things, the point is that the task was completed. An important lesson to bear in mind when living with others, regardless of the type of relationship (roommate, parent-child, partner).

What's emerging ever more clearly in each post, to me anyway, is a pattern, with B being the constant. You're the next man up. I do not mean that pejoratively at all so please bear with me - STBX missed her, she's done this all her life, etc. The question that consistently comes to my mind when reading your posts is this: what lessons has B learned from her failed relationships? I think about this a lot, and more lately: how have I and the other posters here previously behaved in relationships and how have I changed? What lessons did I learn from the failure of my marriage? How am I a different person? How does that play out in current relationships? Otherwise, we're doomed to the same result, right? You have clearly changed, for the better. You aren't going to be pushed into leaving your home. You will do your best to accommodate, but to a point - the point being not compromising yourself in the process. This, to me, is a reasonable and healthy way to be in relationship with a partner. But what about B? Has she learned anything? How has her approach to relationships changed?

Does B have champagne taste on a beer budget? I ask because insisting on bringing you to an open house for a property that's 5x the selling price of where you currently live seems extravagant at worst and unrealistic at best.

Just because B has "always" done something one way doesn't mean she has to keep doing it. Where is the accommodation for you? It's a freaking big deal in my world to meet someone's family, yet she's only giving you a couple of hours?

I don't know, makes me ask the question - where's the parity in your relationship?

Ignore this post if none of it resonates. xoxoxo
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/01/19 11:32 AM
Everything she said^^

I guess a question to ask yourself might be too..... what if you were dating and not living together ? Would you even see each other? Would she make time for you on the weekends?

If you feel like you are being taken for granted, why not be honest about it? Are you waiting for things to change? Are you scared she will leave if you say that? Because when resentment breeds, nothing changes and everything blows up.

I’ve learned to be a tad bit more honest with my feelings . And I don’t think your feelings of being taken for granted are unwarranted at all. I am also wondering where the parity in this relationship is? And what lessons did she get to learn to change the patterns? Because let alone be real. She made mistakes too that lead to the end of her marriage. What -80’s has she done?
Posted By: job Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/01/19 02:28 PM
I agree with bttrfly and Ginger. Don't be afraid to ask for what you need or would like to have happen w/the relationship.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/01/19 02:55 PM
kml - thanks for the LOL. You are right - it is tough for me to "let it go".

bttrfly / Ginger1 / job - you are all exactly correct. I need to think on this.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/01/19 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by AndrewP

Thanks Dawn. Yes - we don't see eye to eye on this. I'm finding that recent events indicate that I'm getting less stressed about her as she seems to be getting her life in order. Yes - I still have that statue of The Knight of the Rueful Countenance on my desk and he is a focus of my trip to Madrid in about 6 weeks. For the longest time I expected that she was following what is the "MLC Script" and was worried that she would hit her form of rock bottom and look for rescue. I'm a lot less worried about that now. She and OM seem to have some sort of arrangement that I know nothing about that appears to work for them. It's perhaps kind of like watching Nascar and hoping that there won't be a crash but also knowing that that can be the most exciting part.


We definitely don't see eye to eye, but I still love you, even if you are wrong. LOL Totally just kidding! wink (About the being wrong part, not the loving you part, for the record.) I understand we think differently on this and that is why I backed off of pointing it out to you all the time. I just know the sense of joy and relief that exists in not giving an F about the X and want you to know that same joy and peace. Maybe you'll get to it on your own at some point or maybe you won't but that is on you, not me. I just want you to move happily forward with B without dragging any unnecessary baggage along for the ride.

And speaking of B, others have said before me, but I'll just say I agree with them that you have to relax and let things go. That is part of living with someone. And, you also have to be bold in speaking up for yourself and what you want. Just because someone has always done things a certain way doesn't mean that they can't make some concessions for the new person in their life. Just from my outside perspective, it seems like both you and B need to communicate more and work more on concessions. I get it, though, honestly. I'm a bit (ok a WHOLE lot) of a control freak. It is hard for me to let go, especially if I have something planned and I have worked on the details. But, it is something I have to make a conscious effort to do with Sparky to keep from driving us both crazy. I think you could loosen the reins a tad in the kitchen. Of course you have different styles of cooking. So, maybe come up with a schedule (I'm a list maker and a calendar person, so schedules are my friend) and on certain nights you cook and B stays out of the way and other nights B cooks and you stay out. Or on your cook nights, let her wash dishes then you wash up on her cook nights. Maybe even throw in a night where y'all cook together. On the nights when she cooks or y'all cook together, loosen the reins a bit and let her do things her way too. Like the gravy...that made me laugh out loud. I'm sure I was making assumptions and inferences when I read, but it was almost like it pained you to say that it was edible because when you described how she made it, you just knew it wouldn't work but then it did so maybe she DOES know what she is doing, even if she doesn't do it like you do it. Does that even make sense? When it comes to her weekend forays, TELL HER you want more time with her. TELL HER you want her to stay home. She may not, but unless you voice your wants and needs, she most certainly won't address them. Explain to her that you want more time because that is what being in a relationship means to you. Someone before me said that it was weird that she was meeting your family which I think we all agree is a HUGE deal and yet she's only squeezing in a few hours out of her normal "routine" (I use the word routine VERY loosely here because B clearly is not much of a routine kinda gal) to make this happen. That tells me B needs to make some concessions too. One of the big red flags that I see emerging where B is concerned that may not have even been evident if y'all weren't living together is that she seems to be a flitter. She flits from this to that and doesn't stay in one place much. She's always going here and going there and running to the cottage for the weekend or running to rescue S38 from whatever crisis of the moment he has or whatever. Not that there is anything wrong with any of that, mind you, but you are much more low-key. You putter around the house and venture out for things occasionally but are happy just being. Is it ok with you that B doesn't seem happy with just being and needs that constant activity? Is that a disparity in your lifestyles that you can live with?

I really want you to be happy and I think B is a lovely addition to your life. I just think y'all both need to communicate more effectively instead of just going with the flow because in your case the flow is a slow, easy river while in her case the flow is like the flight of the bumblebee. Seriously, when I read your posts, I TOTALLY identify with you because I'm so a creature of habit. I say all the time I would be the single easiest person on the face of the planet to stalk and kidnap because I have a set routine and I rarely deviate from it. I even always go the same path through the grocery store. It is so boring and mundane, but that is who I am. Reading of B's "travels" through her life just makes me tired because it seems, at least in my inferences of what I'm reading, that she is always running from one thing to the next like her hair is on fire.
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/01/19 04:44 PM
As for the house stuff - I agree it makes no sense to look at a house that is worth five times your own at this age. Ideally, your goal should be to have a paid-off house before retirement. (I won't quite make that goal - due to unexpected and unshared kid expenses in the last ten years - but still expect to have it 3/4 paid by retirement, and as a backup I could downsize if needed and have no mortgage.)

It's not unreasonable to consider - in a few years - a single story house that is lower maintenance and more suited to retirement. But unless B is bringing a much bigger chunk of change than you seem to expect, and is still going to have enough to fund her own retirement expenses, I would definitely not get in over your head with housing expenses.

Odds are she's not thinking dollars and cents but just emotionally about housing. You might need, at some point in the future when she has an idea how the finances of her divorce are working out, to sit down and show her different projections for retirement, with different housing options, so she can see her money doesn't go as far as she thinks it will.

(As someone within a few years of retirement myself, these things are very much on my mind. There's a great, simple but reasonably complete retirement calculator called the Ultimate Retirement Calculator on the Financial Mentor site. It's free and easy to use and a fast way to look at various retirement scenarios. It allows you to input different income streams, one time inputs of money (like profit on selling a house), play with different tax rates and inflation rates etc. all in one pretty simple page. )
Posted By: DonH Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/01/19 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Dawn70
TELL HER you want more time with her. TELL HER you want her to stay home. She may not, but unless you voice your wants and needs, she most certainly won't address them. Explain to her that you want more time because that is what being in a relationship means to you.


If I'm not mistaken, I thought this conversation or at least statement already took place about two months ago???? Am I remembering correctly? I thought Andrew brought this up and B agreed, perhaps even promised to make sure she spent at least one weekend (perhaps it was two) a month together. It just seems like she promises or at least agrees to many different things but the follow through is not there. Making dinner, doing house things, spending more time, etc. Then there is contributing to house expenses - which I think she also said she was going to do but still is not. That one would be my number 1 concern - but I'm fiscally wired.

I always try myself to pay attention to what people do rather than what they say. There are a lot of people that say they will do this or do that, but then never seem to do what they say. I have no idea the motivation behind it with B. This may simply be her - good intentions, she really means it when she says it but then struggles with follow through. Hopefully it is that rather than as others have suggested to watch for - this is just her MO and you are her current soft place or just current place period. Perhaps it's time to revisit that conversation from two months ago to inquire why she has not followed through.

Andrew, you seem to be putting 100% into this, thinking about you and B as a pair long into the future, putting her needs before your own. B seems to be your priority. She is a lucky woman. I just worry she's not doing the same nor placing you in the same place as you are her - almost like taking advantage of your good nature. I hope I'm wrong.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/01/19 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by DonH
Originally Posted by Dawn70
TELL HER you want more time with her. TELL HER you want her to stay home. She may not, but unless you voice your wants and needs, she most certainly won't address them. Explain to her that you want more time because that is what being in a relationship means to you.


If I'm not mistaken, I thought this conversation or at least statement already took place about two months ago???? Am I remembering correctly? I thought Andrew brought this up and B agreed, perhaps even promised to make sure she spent at least one weekend (perhaps it was two) a month together. It just seems like she promises or at least agrees to many different things but the follow through is not there. Making dinner, doing house things, spending more time, etc. Then there is contributing to house expenses - which I think she also said she was going to do but still is not. That one would be my number 1 concern - but I'm fiscally wired.


I know Andrew has mentioned it before, but I think it bears repeating. Yes, he's told her before and yes she has agreed and not followed through, so my point is that Andrew should tell her again, not just let it fall by the wayside because he mentioned it once, she said ok, then went on about her own business. If you want something and you don't ask for it, you most certainly aren't going to get it, so it wouldn't hurt to revisit the conversation. Further discussion may be fruitless, as you pointed out, because that may just be who B is inherently, but it still doesn't hurt to bring it up again.
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/01/19 07:06 PM
And remember, this may just be a situation that requires give and take on both sides. Andrew, you may need to get more comfortable with going to the lake with her family.From my viewpoint it's kind of a good thing that she's not being restricted to staying home every weekend just because that's YOUR default mode. And it's also ok if you don't want to do that much socializing and she does, so long as you both are ok with the time apart. I think a part of you relishes the time alone so that's ok too. This is just something that the two of you need to discuss to find the right balance for both of you. I suspect you are happier with this than you would be with a woman who was a clingnig vine.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/01/19 08:25 PM
I think a wonderful thing about relationships is having our boundaries not so much pushed as expanded to try new things. Yes, Don now that you mention it I'm pretty sure I remember the same thing re: weekends.

Andrew, we all love you, clearly! Factor that in as you ponder my friend xoxoxo
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/04/19 03:56 PM
Happy Saturday - er Sunday. Long weekend here and I wanted to see how Saturday turned out before posting. I'm off on Monday so this is sort of a Saturday.

Long and rambly - I think I'm working through a lot of things. Feel free to ignore and try not to judge too deeply. This is just me mostly talking to me. I'm not looking to be "fixed".

Thanks everyone for the feedback. After I digested it for a while I came to a realization. B's entire life revolves around her cottage. She doesn't do anything else. I have actually spent a - for me - decent amount of time at the cottage including an overnight. It's not really my thing. Sitting in a chair in the common area or down on the beach and not doing anything other than supervise kids, soak up the sun or gossip with her relatives most of whom I barely know isn't my idea of a good time. I like to be active, exploring, doing.

One thing I also keep in mind is that this could well be the last summer that B has for her cottage. When her 91 year old mother - who yes could live another decade - passes, the cottages will be sold. What B will do with herself then, I don't know. I cut a fair amount of slack because of that. I don't want her to resent that I took away from what may be her last season there. She's made noises that because of her problems with her relatives that "she's never going back" but I don't believe that.

----------------

A couple of items of note that I didn't mention on a prior post.

Earlier in the week I'd noticed that there were roadside stands on my way home from the plant in front of mostly Mennonite farms with fresh flowers so on Tuesday I picked up a nice bouquet for B. She liked it but had little reaction at the time. A couple of days later though she made a point of saying how much she liked the flowers.

It's been a month or so since the last time I got her flowers and I do wonder if it's "gotten old". I do know from my former marriage that if you consistently do special things for someone they quickly stop being special. My challenge is that I like being consistent.

----------

On Thursday my route in to work accidentally and not on purpose had me drive past my ex's apartment. I don't know if I mentioned this or not but OM's house was sold recently which is perhaps why his stuff was being sold online. Outside the apartment was his truck hitched up to a fancy travel trailer. It might be his son's that was borrowed earlier in the year or new. Don't care, none of my business. She's off to visit D27 prior to her move to San Diego which I heard through the grapevine later. I will admit that I'm glad that she's doing that. Because D27 and I use the Life360 tracking app, I can see her going around. One thing I find interesting because it highlights the difference between her mother and I is that when I go to a visit I stay in a hotel close to her flat and go over to see her. Her mother it appears obliges her to drive out to the campground they are in.

OM's house selling and his retirement could mark a new, better chapter for my ex. She's got enough money already from me which if combined with what I expect he got out of his house for them to buy a really nice place together. Even if they cohabitate the agreement says that I need to keep sending her money which bites but it is what it is. More on that a bit later

-------------

Back to current.

B had been (perhaps) semi-joking that if the weather was nice on Saturday that she might have a drink and then as she has a zero drinking policy when driving wouldn't be able to drive to my reunion. She did though make a very nice potato salad for me to take.

She was not very responsive to messages on Saturday morning but cell service at the cottage, especially at the beach is crap and she had things going on. As a joke I sent her a picture of a kitten that is up for adoption. It was very very cute. Spending so much time apart I think is helping me grow my backbone and harden my views on keeping the cats around or even replacing them if S24 takes them when he eventually moves out and also not moving out of this house.

I've written before and it still bugs the heck out of me on if I'm just a convenience and that if she gets the chance to be independent she'll move on. It keeps me from getting as invested in the relationship as much as I'd like to be. Trust is such a difficult thing to build when few of the pieces in the pile seem to fit. The trust "structure" that I used to have did collapse in a pile of rubble and dust and given my history with my ex, it was always a difficult thing for me anyway. I'm not necessarily talking about faithfulness, I'm talking about things big and small.

Anyhoo - so when I was picking up my scone after doing the groceries I wasn't hugely surprised to get a text from B letting me know that because on of her grand-daughters was having "issues" that she didn't want to leave them unsupervised / supervised by cousins. I let her know that I understood and was disappointed and then went on with my plans which were unchanged. B had only intended to be out there for about an hour tops anyway.

The potato salad and I got out to the farm in decent time, I had a nice visit with my oldest brother and SIL1 by their trailer to start. SIL1 was of course full of conspiracy theories and commentary about my ex which I largely ignored and changed the topic to my recent interviews, job prospects and the work being done around the farm. She has no new news and just re-hashed on how she thinks the relationship with OM will implode if they start co-habitating.

It turns out that one of my nephews was using this get together as a stag party and were out on the mighty Saugeen river which runs right past the farm on a variety of craft. When I was visiting with my one sister who came and her partner, the drunken call for rescue came in. It seems that all of the inflatable craft sank leaving them with one boat for all the guys and they were lost, confused and yes, really really drunk. My youngest brother went out with his truck to rescue. Another cousin was still coming down river with his fiance and so we went to the bank with the tractor to wait for them. The giant hog-week and stinging nettles were growing quite well but I managed to avoid them. I hung around for a bit visiting with my 3 year old nephew and then wandered back up to the house figuring that there were lots of people around.

Nephew was there, as I said very drunk as were his buddies. Much heavy drinking was also going on by others. I was actually rather relieved that this wasn't B's introduction to my family. Nephew was behaving rather irresponsibly and my brothers and his mother had to intervene more than once.

I did get a chance to tour through the new house my youngest brother and his wife are building on the old family farm. It's a rather large and grandiose place. I understand that they have gone very heavily in debt to build it. Much of it isn't to my taste but it is well designed and built. He has a lot to be proud of and I told him so. I know that for my younger brother that being validated by his brothers is very important to him. He's 15 years younger than I am and 19 younger than our oldest brother and he does look up to us.

One bit that came up was a conversation with my younger sister who was shocked at how much I pay my ex every month. She divorced her husband many years ago for reasons that I was never party to. She got a couple of grand out of his pension and a pittance in child support for a few years until the kids moved in with their dad. I think she regrets not negotiating harder as she was horrified by how much I pay. SIL1 commented on how everyone was unfriended and then leapt over to grab my sister's phone when she commented that she hadn't been. But it turned out that she had been.

Dinner was eventually consumed and I had a nice time visiting with my relations mostly ignoring the nephew hijinks and around dark headed home letting B know both when I left and when I got home safely. She worries.

------

I was sitting with a glass of wine reading my current book - Skylark of Space - when S24 got home from his shift at the pub. He's been grumpy at me all week because as B told me - I cut the bread he made wrong last Sunday. Yes the apple perhaps doesn't fall far from the tree wink Unfortunately he was also channeling his mother and so when I mentioned that I was glad that B wasn't at the farm because it poorly represented my family he made a sarcastic remark to which I blew him a raspberry - my best move during intellectual debate. This - like his mother - got him very upset in the "how dare you mock me" way and as he left in a huff my response of "deal with it" wasn't met well either. I hate the whole walking on eggshells thing that I did for so many years and while I - generally - don't provoke - I'm not going to hide my flame under a bushel. I almost told him that he didn't "have" to live here but he was farther away and I wisely held my tongue. No need to escalate things. A positive may be that his unhappiness with living here may prompt him to actually move on. We can hope.

----------

S24's birthday to become S25 is coming up in a few weeks. I've picked him up a present - a CAA auto club membership to go with his new car. Hopefully his mother's not had the same idea. A cake has been ordered from my friend - salted caramel. It should be good. B commented recently that the usual chocolate cake wasn't quite to her taste and salted caramel is S24's favourite cupcake flavour. I've let 20-something who has the same birthday know so her nose may well be pressed up to the window on the door on that day.

I do hope that S24 is over his snit by then. I recall on his 20th birthday him being in a horrible snit, resenting being home and complaining that he was sick of his mother and I "always fighting" which was a surprise to me because we rarely disagreed. Although at that time his mother was starting her affair and had been making snippy and sarcastic remarks at / about me which I wasn't accepting. So - yeah - "fighting". We had words that day where I told him that as long as he was living under my roof that I expected politeness and respect. He didn't appreciate that comment.

It is what it is though. He's my son and in most of the ways that matter, my responsibility. To use a quote completely out of context but that illustrates my thoughts
Originally Posted by Sir Terry Pratchett
We are as gods to beasts of the field. We order the time of their birth and the time of their death. Between times, we have a duty.

--------------------------

Going to head out soon perhaps and have a walk and visit with my friend at the cafe over a bowl of soup for lunch. I think that she's gotten unimpressed with B because we don't spend much time together and from the outside I appear to just be a convenience for her. We may have some impression management to do. Or not. I don't know.

It's the first weekend of the month so I'm going to do the cleaning. B had said that she was going to stay on top of the bathrooms, doing them every Thursday but to my knowledge that's only happened once. In her defense, she's been busy in part still cleaning her S38's apartment and taking care of the GK. And I like cleaning so don't resent that she's not doing it beyond the whole - you should do what you said you'll do - thing.

D27 gave me the mailing address for her husband who is in the Persian Gulf right now so I'm going to assemble a care package for him. I was dissapointed because I was going to send him ketchup flavoured chips (don't know if he's tried all-dressed / tout garni - waves to DnJ) but accidentally picked up BBQ. I'm including Tim Horton's coffee, coffee crisp chocolate bars and Smarties. All things which you can't find in the US much less an air-craft carrier around the straights of Hormuz.

I also picked up some new and properly fitting pants this past week that I need to sew suspender buttons on this weekend. Last summer when I was down to 230 lbs I bought and then shrunk some nice wool trousers. I have a target weight of 220lbs / 100 kg but over Christmas and Easter went back up to 250 and have struggled to get back down. I really need to do more regular moderate exercise in the forms of walks and hikes. I've realized that contrary to her words and actions when we dated that B has less than zero interest in this. We've talked and while I don't think she understands that this is important to me and a key part of my fitness plan, she knows that it is something I want to do and will probably be something I will do on my own. With three people in the house now though there's more to be done. I'm also finding myself falling in to old bad habits of structuring my life around my partner, "waiting" for them to be available or to do things with them. This was an issue for me in the last few years of my former marriage especially when my ex would often go out to visit friends leaving me behind with no idea when she might come back or if she would want to do things with me when she did. It reminds me in some ways of a problem customer my ex had back in the day when we were both doing free-lance / part time work. She had a customer who originally used a lot of hours, had interesting things to do, who eventually just needed her to fill in on reception at lunch. An act that created minimal revenue, but also split up the day in such a way that it couldn't be sold to anyone else.

If time permits, I'm thinking that I'll get a start on my kitchen renovation. B had said months ago that she was going to paint the cupboards but that hasn't happened. There's a false ceiling in the kitchen - the last one in the house. My own thought is that pulling it down and seeing what the cupboards look like above the ceiling line is a good idea. Also, doing repairs from the top down is I think the best approach. Since I'm "unsupervised" I may start on that tomorrow. B has to work. I did mention my plan to her but I don't know if she heard so she may be surprised. It depends though on how much of the "must do" stuff gets done. That ceiling has been up there since the 1970s at least and the kitchen was last redecorated about 30 years ago shortly after we moved in. If I don't get a start this weekend the world won't end. I'm glad though that in my head I now have set that as a priority and have a plan. A good thing too is that it has a very low cost. Disposal of scrap at the dump, perhaps a bag or so of plaster. I used to be afraid to do things while my wife was around. She was always hyper critical especially of any sort of inconvenience or mess. Old attitudes are hard to shake. S24 has said that he might help but I'm not holding my breath.

Ah well - the tea pot is empty. Amy has gotten bored and wandered off. Sunday supper's plan includes a rhubarb / black currant pie and meatloaf. B has said that she may or may not make it. Hopefully this time she won't charge in at the last minute and take over again but it would be nice if she were able to join us. Hopefully S24 will be in a decent humour as well.

I may grumble and complain a lot but I know that I am a very fortunate man. Getting things out here also helps me process them and not have them fester and become bigger problems.

Have a great day everyone.
Posted By: DnJ Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/04/19 05:15 PM
Hi Andrew

Originally Posted by AndrewP
I was going to send him ketchup flavoured chips (don't know if he's tried all-dressed / tout garni - waves to DnJ) but accidentally picked up BBQ.

Waves back.

Ketchup chips are probably my favourite.

Of course all-dressed, bbq, salt n vinegar, dill pickle, etc... I’m not too picky. Well the moose maple wasn’t a great flavour. I don’t even see it on the shelves anymore, perhaps Old Dutch pulled it. I don’t even think I finished that one bag I tried. A rarity.

Interestingly, on vacation I had potato chips in flavours of cheeseburger, turkey dinner, and “fries and gravy”. All three tasted like stated. Weird the flavour not matching the expected texture.

Hope you have a great day too.

DnJ
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/05/19 12:18 PM
Did she really choose to have one cocktail over coming to your family reunion? If I had a strict no drinking and driving policy and my boyfriend invited me to his family reunion..... I would skip the cocktail.

You know how I feel already, so I won’t repeat it.

I agree not wait on her and just go about living your life. She can’t really be relied on, so make your sinners, eat them, do the projects you would like around the house too.

And yeah, stop with the flowers. You are overly thoughtful with someone who isn’t giving you much of a thought. And she doesn’t seem like she is appreciating much these days.

Go back to the flower store and buy yourself flowers like you always have.
Posted By: job Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/05/19 01:38 PM
Andrew,

I agree w/Ginger and B should have skipped the cocktail and attended your family function. You've been to a number of her family affairs and the least she could have done is gone to this one.

I wouldn't wait on her. Fix your dinner and eat. She has been living in your home for some time now and knows how much effort you put into your Sunday dinners. As for your projects, do them and do them because you either like to do them or they need to be done. Also, if you need to change out the décor, i.e., painting, wall paper, etc., choose colors that you like since she can't seem to follow through on most things.

I wouldn't purchase any more flowers for her. Go back to your routine and get the flowers that you enjoy and place them in your home.

Andrew, I realize that when two people meet, move in together, etc., they both need to learn how to adjust to living together. However, I think you've gone way above and beyond being accommodating and from where I am sitting, you are getting the short end of the stick. B is entirely too focused on her family and it makes me wonder if this was the major issue w/her second husband. She may very well think you are a very easy going man and will go along w/the program and not ruffle feathers to keep her in your home and bed.

You've had several talks w/her about things and yet, she goes along doing her own thing. It's almost like you two are living as roommates and not as a couple. I can understand why someone would not be impressed with her.

I hope this is a better week for you.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/05/19 02:48 PM
Posting more than usual again.

Thanks job and Ginger.

B said that she didn't show up to the reunion because of grand-kid drama not a drink. But yeah - I do wonder about her priorities. She would have known that this was a big deal for me.

I can't quite put my finger on it, but I do feel that she's keeping "her options open" and one foot out the door. She does seem reluctant to interact with my friends and family although is happy for me to interact with her's. Whether it's uncertainty about me, or just hedging her bets but as you indirectly suggest, she's not all in. I am pretty much positive that she's not shopping around for a replacement for me. On the other hand, I find that I'm not as "all in" as I would like to be too. Perhaps it's a function of our age and the pain that at least I went through.

job - as you suggest I also believe that her second husband also felt like he wasn't a priority for her either. On the other hand, one of her complaints was that he wasn't as engaged with her kids / his step kids as she wanted him to be. Now he did raise them from a very young age and was very engaged until he took early retirement at 50 and moved "up north" 5 hours away. Ignoring any other issues - she said he was diagnosed as clinically depressed well before retirement - I can understand not wanting to drive 10 hours regularly. He did tell her that it was S38 and his issues that led to him being so very unhappy. The moving "up north" was supposed to be his cure for depression.

Reading between the lines it was a similar situation with her first husband as well where she would spend the entire summer at the cottage.

Undoubtedly there were a lot of other factors in play with the end of her marriages. Financial and emotional abuse in her first, infidelity and depression in the second.

Interestingly, other than S38 who shamelessly takes advantage of her, her kids are generally happy to be living their lives and see their mother once every month or so. Her daughter does talk to her on the phone daily and I think she hears from the two younger boys every week or so on the phone. Her 2 step-kids who she raised from small children have little to do with her. It is B's belief that spending much of the last 10 years being far away and not seeing her kids regularly caused them to grow independently of her.

As far as the flowers go - I've been continuing to get my roses each week but will perhaps cut out getting flowers specially for B for the present. I recall when I was first married that I would get my wife a particular order of flowers - 3 red roses and 3 white carnations regularly. Then I noticed that they would be left to rot and after our first year or so together I stopped that. Her 57th birthday is coming up at the start of September and I may reach out to her kids to see about us all going out for dinner. She said that one of her traditions is to have a banana split on her birthday. I'm thinking of getting her a jewelry box as most of her jewelry is in various cardboard boxes and zip-lock bags. She has a mix of costume and nice pieces.

Since I had no idea when B would be home I did do Sunday supper at 6:00 as usual. I was amused in a sad way because when S24 came down he was obviously still upset and really really wanted to find something to be upset about. I ignored his mood, chatted and after the main course (meatloaf with cheese and steamed brocolli also with cheese and fresh baked buns) he excused himself and hid back in his room again. He chose not to have any pie. He goes through cycles like this all the time. I work on not taking it personally even though his anger appears to be directed at me. Maybe too much cheese? laugh

The pie did turn out quite nicely. Black currant and rhubarb is a nice combination. I did over-bake it a bit and the crust is a bit more brown than I would have liked. When B got home around 8:00 she had a piece and said it was quite good.

As an aside, there was a "competition" between B and one of her co-workers who was also dating a younger - in her case much younger man. For both of them, there was a lot of obvious affection shown and they'd compare the love notes in their lunches. Her friend announced a few days ago that she and her boyfriend have broken up and that she's moving most of the way across the country to spend time "with a friend" which B is interpreting in the same way as the rest of us here probably are. I think it bothers her more than she lets on.

Well - it's a holiday today for me but not B. I think I'm going to go for a nice long walk on the trails in the neighbouring town then home to work on my mending pile and ironing. The dusting and sweeping also need to be done. I did get the bathrooms and cat boxes - the heavy lifting part of the monthly cleaning - done yesterday. Not sure what I'll make for dinner or if B will be doing that. We do have lots of left-over meatloaf and pie so if any of you happen to be passing by I can set out another plate. Tea pot is empty again.
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/05/19 05:10 PM
Quote
B said that she didn't show up to the reunion because of grand-kid drama not a drink. But yeah - I do wonder about her priorities. She would have known that this was a big deal for me.


Did she know? Did you tell her it was really important to you for her to meet your family and that you'd rather she didn't go to the cottage until after

And similarly, I suspect she feels that you not joining her at the cottage (yeah, I know, you spent ONE night, that's not enough!) and participating with her family there probably makes her feel like you would rather be home doing chores than sharing this very important part of her life with her. (Which may be true but if so, that may be a major compatibility issue between you two.)

AS for your ex leaving the flowers "to rot" - just because she didn't notice when they needed water or were ready to be thrown out doesn't mean she didn't appreciate the flowers. You sound like CMM!

The question here for you is how much autonomy versus time together do you both need or want? Is she happy to get away or is she secretly upset that you won't come join everybody at the cottage and drink and socialize? (btw there are canoes and things to be repaired or maintained all around the cottage I'm sure.)
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/05/19 08:56 PM
LOL - kml - I can always rely on you to point out the obvious. I think that the fact that you are on the opposite side of what may be a similar relationship is extremely helpful to me at least and perhaps has given you some mustache insight wink Maybe I'll grow a large one later this fall for Movember in tribute.

You ask some very basic questions that I don't have answers to and have given me something to think on.

Thank you.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 12:24 AM
Well I must admit that I'm not 100% surprised. B told me tonight that she's moving out.

Her story is that S38 needs her and she needs to be there for him.

I have a lot to process. Feeling blue.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 02:43 AM
Moving out as in breaking up or just moving out?
If it's just moving out, that might be a really good thing for your relationship as you can actually get back to dating.

I'm sorry Andrew. hugs xoxoxo
Posted By: DnJ Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 04:07 AM
(((Andrew)))

I’m sorry my friend.
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 05:19 AM
Yeah I agree with Bttrfly. It sounded like she jumped the gun on leaving her son's sitch and this is what is needed to keep the judge happy. It might not have anything to do with you -did she say it does? If it's not about you then this might be a very good thing for your relationship to get back to just dating, with less friction.
Posted By: Westo Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 09:14 AM
I can understand how low you must be feeling right now, Andrew.

But, I also think this is the best thing all around. If it’s over, then you can move on and learned a lot about what you want in a relationship.

If it’s just her moving out, you get your space with the cats back, with no stress about getting another place to live and you can both date properly.

Andrew, even though I’m so sorry (I hate to think of you being so down) but I felt a loneliness in your recent posts and I honestly think this is the best thing for you.

Big Welsh (((cwtch))) coming your way.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 10:29 AM
Thanks all. Her stated reasons are issues with S38 and the GK along with not being able to see herself living in this house for the next 10 years. I presume the latter because it's too big and too urban.

I don't know if there are other reasons but did ask if she had found someone else which got an emphatic no.

I'm very sad, more than a bit upset but given that she's only unpacked clothes leaving the rest in boxes in the laundry room for months she certainly wasn't at least subconsciously invested in staying.

I am uncertain what this means for "us". I don't want to be left on the shelf. She said we'll talk and I don't think she knows either. My approach has been to back right off with no more PDA.

I saw her off to work with just a hug and kiss on the top of her head. I think that she's almost as confused as I am but my history of mind reading isn't to be trusted.

Time for my shower and off to work. She doesn't know if she will be here when I get home or not and we got stuck in a "what do you want " loop.

I'll survive. I've gone through far worse.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 11:01 AM
I’m very sorry Andrew. I know it hurts. But sometimes being lonely when someone is actually around is worse.

You say you got stuck in the “ what do you want loop” I think you really need to think about what YOU want and be honest and true about it, and not so much what does she want. You have been given the opportunity to be open and honest to you and yourself about what you desire. Take advantage.

And remember. She can only put you on a shelf if you let her.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 11:13 AM
the worst loneliness, in my personal experience, is the loneliness one feels when in a relationship ... I'm very sorry my friend. take it a day at a time xoxoxoxo
Posted By: job Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 11:27 AM
Andrew,

I am sorry to read that B is moving out...however, she jumped the gun w/moving in when things weren't settled between the court and her grown son over the care of the two grandkids. B had a lot of baggage that really needed to be sorted out before moving in w/you. She needs to be on her own and get her life together before entering into a serious relationship, i.e., getting a divorce finalized.

Andrew, please do not allow this to get you down. You've got so many wonderful qualities that a woman would want in a man. Take some time to lick your wounds and then get back out there! You just might be surprised who crosses your path when you aren't looking.
Posted By: TBSakaJ9 Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 12:13 PM
I am sorry to hear A....I have been reading along with not much to contribute but I know it hurts. Like you said you have been through far worse! Treat yourself to something you enjoy.

Hang in there.
Posted By: doodler Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 12:31 PM

I think know the Turkish taco lady's name is either Beatrice, Claire or Carmen.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 01:11 PM
DOOD! You missed all the excitement.

Good to see you old friend. I hope you, the boys and the forests of northern Florida are all doing well.
Posted By: doodler Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by AndrewP
You missed all the excitement.


Excitement? Please don't tell me you got drunk and knocked-up your neighbor's wife.

We're doing well. School starts on Monday. My youngest son will be a freshman in high school this year. Both of my sons will be in high school. It's hard to believe. The years have flown by.

And, I've had several positive interactions with my XW via Our Family Wizard. Wonders never cease.
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 04:39 PM
Quote
I'll survive. I've gone through far worse.

That's how I felt - after being dumped by my exH of 24 years, what's a little dating breakup really???

And her reasons given about not wanting to live in that house for 10 years - well, that's really telling. SHE doesn't have the wherewithal to move to a different/"better" house but is expecting YOU to fork over for it this early in the relationship? And with no good financial planning for the future?

She sounds to me a lot like a certain type of East Coast woman I've met through my ex's family. When my FIL remarried, he married a widow from their social circle. She had been the wife of an executive. Every summer she moved with the kids to a lake and the father commuted there on weekends. She never had to worry about bills or handle any finances, basically her husband was the "big daddy" who took care of everything but whose presence wasn't really required - just his checkbook.. Some women are raised to feel entitled to this kind of treatment - the husband is the ATM and is there to provide her with what she believes she deserves. Her only duties are hostess and occasional bed partner. My FIL, while he owned his own business, had a lovely home in a great neighborhood and a summer cottage on a nearby lake, was not a spendthrift and would discuss with her things like extravagant long distance phone bills (back in the day when that was a thing). He paid for everything while she spent the proceeds of the sale of her home on herself and her kids. Don't forget that she pretty much abandoned her kids to move far away with her ex, who knows if that contributed to the mess that S38 is in now, then she left S38 hanging high and dry to move in with you. Doesn't sound to me like someone reliable.

The only mistake here was moving B in so quick - but even in that process you've learned a lot about what you would need to be compatible with living with someone now.

She may not be brave enough to say goodbye but that's pretty much what I'm hearing. If it was just about S38 and grandkids she wouldn't be kvetching about the house. And it explains why she didn't go meet your family.

Hey, at least you got some good sex out of the deal! And maybe once you're back on the market gift shop lady or flower shop girl will make a move. Just chalk this up to a (mostly pleasant) learning experience and move forward.
Posted By: DejaVu6 Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 05:02 PM
What KML said... lots of valuable life lessons learned in this process. Still not fun but I think you are better off. You need someone more interested in YOU Andrew... not what you can provide. She's out there. Just don't think B is her. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by doodler
Excitement? Please don't tell me you got drunk and knocked-up your neighbor's wife.
Pretty much all my immediate neighbours are well past menopause as is B. And I'm a one-gal guy. Having a hard enough time keeping up with B much less "spreading the love".

Originally Posted by doodler
We're doing well. School starts on Monday. My youngest son will be a freshman in high school this year. Both of my sons will be in high school. It's hard to believe. The years have flown by.

And, I've had several positive interactions with my XW via Our Family Wizard. Wonders never cease.
Un-accompanied by the ever so polite person in the black and white Uber? Progress!

-----------

Feel free to ignore below - just me looking in a rather foggy mirror.

Still feeling the sadly familiar sense of the surreal. This time yesterday I was in what I thought was a pretty stable relationship. Making plans for B's birthday in a few weeks, feeling good that I had been able to hold fast on some important boundaries such as the house and my cats. Believing that any issues would be talked through like we have in the past. And that we promised to do. She in fact seemed more concerned about that than me.

Kablooie!

I did text B mid-morning to check to see if she was OK. The usual practice is that I'll let her know when I get to work - I didn't today - get a mushy message from her when she's on break and when she's done for the day, let her know when I leave etc. If I'm running late she'd usually check up on me. Today's certainly not usual.

I know she had a doctor's appt this morning so sent my message later. Her response was that she was worried about me. I finished with a wish that we had talked things out first and then have implemented radio silence.

Last night she did say that we would talk - not sure about what - her mind seemed made up. She knows I'm hurt and upset. Further conversation won't do anything about that. She actually doesn't have much stuff in the house - a load for her youngest son's pickup unless she also takes the couch which was given to us by her daughter when she moved. There will undoubtedly be a bunch of stuff that gets overlooked that I'll have to package up and stuff that leaves unexpectedly. Echos of 3+ years ago. Different song, same harmony. She did seem concerned about making sure that she told me of some of the stuff that had been acquired since she moved in that it would be staying even down to the containers I packed her lunch in last night. Not that I care. My ex was also focused on minutia.

Is this actually a discard? It sure feels like it. I'm rather a mess but am holding it together. If you were to ask me either now or 3+ years ago what I wanted - it would be for it to not have happened or for it to be over. I'm so much stronger now than I was then. At least now I have a support network to reach out to - most of whom have done a variation of WTF and "more fish in the sea".

I've removed her picture from my office desk to a drawer. Sorted through the budget and cleaned out bits of that. Some files that she had me save for her that she can get herself have been purged. Assuming that this is the end, I'm very likely going to choose to remember it for the positives and not wipe the last 6 months from my past.

One of my co-workers asked about my weekend. I made noises about being busy cooking and cleaning and she responded "you're a keeper". Similar phrases used when my ex was discarding me. Yeah - I'm a keeper - except for those who are practicing catch and release.

I both can't wait and dread getting home. Perhaps there will be some resolution.

I'm confident that B is still fond of me. We shared a bed last night although for one of the first times I wore PJs as a clear signal. She did come over in the middle of the night as usual to lay her head on my chest. I think in part it the combination of "normal" and "not" that really adds to it being surreal. I really fought that cognitive dissonance with my ex.

My plan is to just let go. I started last night with a reduced affection and contact. This morning I removed B's duvet from the bed replacing it with the old one and got her suitcase down from the high shelf where she would have had problems getting it. Clear message - if you want to leave - there's the door.

I left a note for S24 explaining things as much as they are explainable. He and B I think had gotten fairly close. This will probably confuse him and perhaps upset him thinking that I did something bad to make her want to leave. B seemed startled that I would do that but as I told her, he needed to know that I was aware that she was leaving and perhaps taking stuff while I was at work.

I am managing to get some work done. Balanced some journals that we supposedly out of balance, helped organize a load of 50% sulphuric acid (whee!), spent far too much time staring out the window at the rail-yard and watching the clock and proof-reading this post.

Well - enough for now.

Thanks everyone for the love and support.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 05:37 PM
What do YOU want going forward? I wouldn’t just accept what she’s willing to give you. She needs to be willing to give you what you need. Don’t take crumbs just to keep her around.

What does a satisfying healthy relationship look like to you? You can have that. Even if it’s not with her
Posted By: DonH Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 06:22 PM
I know it doesn't feel like it now but I can't help but be rather certain that B has done you a favor here - given you a gift. I think in time you are going to feel the same way. As is most often the case, this is much more about her and who she is than anything you are or are not. The pain of all of it is the cause for the fog in the mirror. Just from how you have been writing and what you have been saying it's clear things had changed. Not sure if her going back to her former home had anything to do with it or gave her clarity? I just think you are going to see in time that you were already giving up far to much to try to fit a round peg into a square hold. On the up side you had some fun, you know you can love again, etc. You just need someone more compatible. It's good to have differences but sometimes two very different people are just not a fit. For sure, the pace was not helping to create a natural, mature, real bond. At least you know she's not going to hold on and use you for convenience and a soft place to fall. That's at least something. Far better for things to end here before any real damage or collateral damage (S24, cats, house) were cast aside.

None of this makes it easier now, but just as sure as I was before, I'm even more sure you'll see before the end of the year that she really did do you a favor. Everything happens for a reason.

And one more thing, please listen to Ginger when she tells you to factor in what YOU want. You already were giving away too much to what B wants. That's a great attribute but sometimes the cost is too high. Time to start getting ready for your trip. It might be coming at a really great time!
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 06:45 PM
Oh yeah - this is an EXCELLENT time for your trip. Maybe you'll meet some lovely lady on the plane?
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 07:03 PM
My friend you have been thru far too much to get sidetracked or derailed here and now. Sometimes things don’t follow the path we think they will, and that’s ok. There are lessons everywhere if we just stay open to learning.

Ginger is completely correct in asking what do you want - and I will add this: what do you want in your life in terms of how you want to live ? Do you want a home with cats? Do you want a lifestyle that includes long walks and healthy meals? Get granular in what you want in terms of your personal lifestyle choices, then take steps to incorporate those wants into your life, trusting that a partner will be there to share it with you if that’s what you want. Who knows it may even be B tho I feel that’s unlikely as she seems very impetuous in her choices and not very introspective so how can she truly learn from her life lessons? I also think Don is very correct she’s giving you a gift. Xoxoxoxo
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 10:17 PM
Quote
Who knows it may even be B tho I feel that’s unlikely as she seems very impetuous in her choices and not very introspective so how can she truly learn from her life lessons?


Agreed. You came riding up in your knight's armor on your steed and rescued the damsel (and she willingly went even though it meant leaving her son in the lurch) but then - how dare you! - actually tried to get her to budget and plan for her future. Instead of just going out and buying her the castle of her dreams, you actually suggested - oh no! - PRUDENT FINANCIAL PLANNING! What a monster!

My guess is she's actually not interested in taking financial control of her life, and she bailed on her son when she shouldn't have, and she desires a lakeside lifestyle that she cannot afford, and maybe the two of you are just not as compatible as you both had hoped (which is ok - that's what dating is for).

The lessons for you from this are: you can love again, sex can be better than you remembered, you should not rescue anybody, take your time to get to know someone, and maybe next time someone whose values and interests are more closely aligned with yours.
Posted By: doodler Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by AndrewP
Un-accompanied by the ever so polite person in the black and white Uber?


Yep Andrew, those black and white Uber drivers carry a gun so they can afford to be nice. I'm hoping it's the end of an era for me; may my XW remain chill and mellow. Knocking on wood...

-----------------------------

After perusing your posts (aka novellas) I think I can summarize the cause of the recent kerfuffle in your life; you got a whiff of poontang and went crazy. No worries dude, it happens to everyone. Just remember, it's okay to get a whiff, just don't let the whiffee (assuming you're the whiffer) move in until the delirious effects of the whiffing have had some time to wear off.

And that's my novella.

No whiffing for you, Casanova, for at least a week. You've been naughty.
Posted By: JujuB Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 11:34 PM
So sorry Andrew.

I found some similarities in your situation with B and the first guy I got serious with after divorce. Big one being, we were going for partners that we knew weren’t very compatible. We were trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Some of it comes from DB principles that don’t really apply to picking partners but perhaps getting along and compromising in a long term marriage. I know I wanted stability and to feel safe with someone without taking into account compatibility (which I lacked in my first marriage). I figured that based on DB principals all you needed was someone committed.

You frequently pointed out incompatibilities in between the lines of most of your posts. For example, you mention her lack of formal education and how she did not recognize or appreciate the same musical composers that you do. How she did not get the same literary references that you did. How you both saved and spent differently. You made subtle comments about loving her despite her physical flaws. I think when we start talking like that, it means we are settling.

I think it’s possible to find someone that has your interests. That you feel real chemistry with. That you are compatible with. And I wish you the best of luck.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/06/19 11:56 PM
Thanks everyone, especially as always kml who hits it out of the park.

Just thought I'd give an update.

Around quitting time, I got a long text from B which boiled down to "I'm not being fair to you", "I need to deal with my sh!t", "the house is way too big", "the cats are super annoying". This was mixed in with "I do love you", "you are amazing" and "I never wanted to hurt you". I skipped out of work early and eventually got B on the phone. I did not want this to end in text messages.

The contents of the conversation aren't really very important. She "really" didn't like being in the big house with the cats. Either of them would have been tough and she found the house oppressive. Personally I'm baffled. But then again I've spent pretty much my entire adult life here with a parade of cats. Smokey (who came with my wife), Pitti Sing, George (my little sweetheart), Tweedle Dee, Tweedle Dum, Caspian (who is now an Americat) and now of course Liz and Amy.

What does matter though is that I got something that few LBS get. Closure. There was no "well maybe it will work in the future" or anything like that. I told her that I am letting her go because that's what she wants and feels is the best for her. The conversation wasn't nearly as dispassionate as that of course. Many tissues were used on my end at least but I suspect that I'm the more emotional one.

When I got home, I did chat with S24 who was unsurprised when I broke down in to a blubbering mass talking about all of this. I was worried that he would blame me for her leaving. He accepted that I was holding firm on the house and the cats and that that was perhaps the deal-breaker for B and I think he appreciated it. This house is his home as well and the cats are dear to him too. I recall telling him more than once that he had seniority here. If nothing else, this is reinforced. And it was all done without casting blame - just accepting that these are the facts.

She took probably 75% of her stuff out today and will come back for the rest on Thursday while I'm in Toronto. Knowing B to not be the most organized of people, I took it upon myself to organize what is left. I even did the laundry she left in the hamper - cuz I'm just that wonderful wink There truly are no hard feelings. I do expect that she will be touched that I put this effort in. Not sure if she'll be surprised. And that's not why I'm doing it. For my part, and it's part of my personality that won't surprise people like kml - when I'm done, I'm done. Tidy up the shop, put the tools away and move on. My ex-wife was very afraid of that side of me although she didn't understand it I think. I do know that she was afraid of it being applied to her. I think that B will find it a relief that I'm not hanging on. I am upset - yes. I am hurt - yes. All of this is healthy.

I do intend to write B a nice letter or card to tell her how much I appreciated having her in my life for the last 6 months. I did notice that she'd left the roses from the first bouquet of flowers that she'd carefully dried in the first pass. I made sure they were packed. I don't want them and she can do what she likes.

So now the healing starts. Given everything I've learned about myself and relationships and how short this one was, it won't take too long but it will take the time that it takes. Certainly at least a couple of months. Probably until after Thanksgiving which is at the end of October here. I will struggle for a while with no-contact but that is an important part of the healing.

Well - I have a bottle of Zinfandel in the fridge that isn't my usual tipple but that was B's favourite and I always made sure to have around. Time to sit with a good book, a glass and some truly wonderful memories.

Tomorrow is indeed another day.
Posted By: TBSakaJ9 Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 12:24 AM
Hang in there A.....she knew you had cats and knew the size of her house before she moved in so imo that is a bunch of BS. Hang in there and enjoy your wine!

There are givers and takers in this world and you are obviously a giver. B seemed more like a taker so I think you are better off for it. I hope you are able to find someone that is a giver.
Posted By: DnJ Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 12:29 AM
Andrew, you’re a heck of a good guy.

I agree with your position on the house and the cats. Two items you now know for sure you want in your life. Kind of nonnegotiable. Ensure they both make it to the tick boxes when you eventually do date again.

It is nice to see how S24 is doing. Not blaming and appreciative of you and your ideals. When you least expect it, our kids are watching and learning. It seems S24 has been learning very well.

Much respect and a big bro hug.

DnJ
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 12:39 AM
Quote
she knew you had cats and knew the size of her house before she moved in so imo that is a bunch of BS.


I agree! Who moves into a house with two cats if they dislike cats that much??? And when you're living there for free, who complains about a big house being "oppressive"????

Truth be told, if you had dated longer the differences between you might have become more obvious before you ended up living together. But you had a few months of good memories - it's ok to just leave it at that.

Somewhere out there is a woman who would be thrilled to find a guy who cooks, likes cats, is forgiving of figure flaws, likes to go to flea markets and other weekend type events, and take long walks. You'll find her. Despite its ending I hope this has given you some confidence.

(Oh - and maybe no more dating women who aren't divorced. Who knows if that had anything to do with it but I'm suspicious.)
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 01:05 AM
I’m sorry you are hurting. I really really am.

I agree with J. Her excuses are excuses and BS. She new your house, she knew you had cats, and I’m sorry, unless you are severely allergic and they are pissing all over the place, anyone can live with cats. And if she doesn’t find a tiny apartment with her son and grandkids oppresive.... how is your home?

One thing is truth. She really does need to deal with her sh!t and I hope she does, before she goes and uses another guy.

Please, please don’t send her a card or a note telling her how much you enjoyed your relationship. Just end it here. It’s a move I would make in the past and it just made me look like an a$$. You’ve done enough. She has taken enough.

Next time, date. Get to know a woman, see if you are compatible and if you have the same goals and lifestyles. You always use age as a means to learning how to make it work. Sometimes it just doesn’t.

My dad will be 70 this year. He is as happily married because they are compatible and have the same desires in life. They like to travel, go to concerts, go to the gym together, try new restaurants, ride bikes on the boardwalk, spend time with friends and family . He is living his retirement years and would be miserable with someone who didn’t share his interests or have the same goals in life in retirement. And I think the biggest thing is I see each other give to each other. They do things out of their comfort zone too to make the other happy. It goes both ways.

And your S wouldn’t blame you. If us, here from the boards can see you keep giving and her taking and not being around and not helping out, I’m sure he didn’t like seeing that. He can sense that.

Again, don’t send that card/letter. Cut the ties and heal. Don’t nice guy her. You’ve done enough of that. The right one will come along. And you’ll know it.
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 01:30 AM
I agree, don't send the card.

Also:
Quote
He is living his retirement years and would be miserable with someone who didn’t share his interests or have the same goals in life in retirement.


This is a really good point. Younger people hope they will grow together. But at our ages, with retirement coming sooner rather than later, these questions are pretty important. It's often an issue even for couples who have been together a long time, if they retire and find out they have a very different idea of what that retirement time should look like. You should definitely consider if someone you are dating would like to do the same things in retirement as you.

We know you have an interest in international travel and museums, attending local weekend fairs and such, reading and intellectual pursuits. A marathoner might not be a fit for you, and we've learned that someone who wants to party every weekend at the lake isn't a fit either.

Not that someone has to fit all of your interests - BUT - there should be some common ground in your aspirations.
Posted By: Westo Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 08:15 AM
Please don’t send a card. You have given enough of yourself to her and it’s over.

I also agree that her reasons are BS. But, she’s done you a great favour in leaving. You have the rest of August to heal before your wonderful trip to Spain.

You will meet someone one day with the same intellect as you, who is also as well read (well almost!). Don’t ‘settle’ for anything less.

I know you fear ending up alone, we probably all do. But that will only happen if you let it.

There is nothing wrong with being alone either.....much better than being lonely in a relationship. I know which I would prefer.

PS,



Don’t send the card wink
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 08:35 AM
Originally Posted by doodler


After perusing your posts (aka novellas) I think I can summarize the cause of the recent kerfuffle in your life; you got a whiff of poontang and went crazy. No worries dude, it happens to everyone. Just remember, it's okay to get a whiff, just don't let the whiffee (assuming you're the whiffer) move in until the delirious effects of the whiffing have had some time to wear off.

And that's my novella.

No whiffing for you, Casanova, for at least a week. You've been naughty.



Doodler, succinct and perhaps more on point than the rest of us ....
Posted By: job Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 11:25 AM
Andrew,

Her excuses about your home and those adorable cats is nothing more than a huge pile of BS. I may be wrong, but B has some very serious issues and tends to blame everyone and everything else for the mess she's in, but that is my opinion. This woman moved into your home, knowing your home was large and she also knew about your cats, Amy and Liz. She also may several attempts to change you into the man that she wanted and began talking about you two purchasing a new home together. Can you just imagine how that would have been? The adult son and grandkids would have moved in because she would have owned half the house and your son and kitties would have had to find a new place to live.

Please, do not send her a card. You have already done enough in the way of providing a nice place for her to stay and being the kind and wonderful man that you are. Cut her loose! Turn the page in your life's story and begin a new one today.
Posted By: TBSakaJ9 Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 11:38 AM
A...I concur I would not send a card, write a sappy message or lift one more finger to assist her in any way. My guess is she saw you had financial resources. house, etc. and would have used you for it all if you would have let her. Once she realized you were not going to manipulated and drink her kool aid it was game over.

You dodged a serious bullet my friend and it would not have ended well for you at all. She would have taken you for everything you were worth if you would have let her. As I said before she is a taker and you are a giver. Find yourself another giver!
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 12:50 PM
I'm SO terribly sorry you are hurting, Andrew. You are a good man, a giver, a rescuer, a prince among men, and a GREAT catch. As others before me have said, do NOT send a card. In fact, do NOT do anything else to facilitate anything for B. You packed her remaining stuff and finished her laundry. Those things are already done, though I personally would've even advised against those, but they are done, so let those be the last things you do for her. Set her free and in so doing, set yourself free.

Also, as everyone before me has said, her excuses were BS. Granted, y'all moved a little fast, but I think you did that with your eyes as wide open as was possible, all things considered. You have a few months of pleasant memories and a not terrible break-up. All break-ups are bad, but this one was mild, relatively speaking, so pick yourself up, dust yourself off and move forward. You have SO much to offer a lady and I know there is a lady out there who is more compatible with you. I don't think B is a bad person, I just think she has a LOT of baggage and has some tendencies that don't mesh well with your personality (she's a bit flaky, seems to kind of bulldoze her way into and around things, doesn't make good decisions, and is FAR more tied up in helping everyone else but you when she should really be focused on helping herself first). It seemed fairly clear from the beginning that you and B had more differences than similarities and I think, as bttrfly pointed out a few posts back, Doodler may have been the most accurate with his story. Nothing wrong with that. We ALL want to be wanted and needed. it is a very good place to be.

Hang in there, Andrew. (((((((Andrew)))))))
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by doodler
After perusing your posts (aka novellas) I think I can summarize the cause of the recent kerfuffle in your life; you got a whiff of poontang and went crazy.
isn't that the name of an 80's big hair band?

I'm not sure that I agree with everyone on every point but they are all certainly something to consider. I had always looked at B as a giver because from at least her own descriptions along with her actions she is a giving person. I suppose like everything it comes in a spectrum.

So - after 1/2 a bottle of Zinfandel (Gallo Family - very nice) I went off to bed. I was pleased by how compassionate S24 was.

I slept reasonably well - somewhat out of emotional exhaustion and was a bit surprised to wake up to a text from B confirming things for Thursday and including an ILU. I responded with KK.

Overnight I thought of a few other things of B's that were probably here and there and put them in the laundry room for her. One of my goals is to have this as streamlined and painless for me as possible. A constant trickle of this or that forgotten thing is not healthy for me. There was a bunch of kid stuff in the garden shed and winter stuff in the front hall closet that would very likely have been missed. One thing I will acknowledge about B is that she's not the most organized of people. Almost on a par with my ex-wife in fact if not a bit worse.

I won't leave her a note but will confess to putting my pancake recipe in the box along with her pre-made pancake mix and generic "pancake syrup" crazy The pure, locally made maple syrup is mine and stays in the fridge.

So - when she comes on Thursday there's stuff in the dressing room off the MBR, the laundry room and the dining room (yes it is a fairly big house). She won't need to hunt for anything. There's no need to come back. And I won't be finding reminders. There is one small stuffed cat she picked up that's on top of the piano that I've left sitting where it is as a reminder of someone who I will persist in thinking of as a wonderful woman. It's helpful that she never felt comfortable enough here or invested in being here to do more than basic unpacking regardless of how frustrating I found it at the time.

I also sent a note to my nephew's fiance letting her know that I would be attending their wedding at the end of September solo

My current belief for what it's worth is that she found herself "what" she wanted but not "where" she wanted. The 6 figure income, loving and patient partner - those parts were good. The big house on a main street and nowhere near water - although I do have a creek in the north-east corner of the lot - wasn't. The cats and even S24 were not part of her vision either. Nor was the fact that I had my own interests that didn't include going to her cottage every weekend but rather had me out and about and doing things.

Ignoring the very flattering things that you have all said - I do know that I am a somewhat rare duck out there. I do wonder if after a few months living in her son's basement - and I do know that she and her daughter in law can clash - or back in that cramped 2 bedroom apartment with S38 and GS3/4 - I would be unsurprised if an invite for coffee wasn't forthcoming. But then again perhaps it won't. The tales that B would tell would vary from the incredibly creepy men who would contact her via OLD to a variety of other men who she says regularly flirt with her.

In her long message to me yesterday she did acknowledge that she has a lot of baggage to sort out and that it wasn't nearly as sorted as she thought. I wish her well and have only fond feelings. I did also know as anyone reading my serialized novellas would realize that I was getting pretty unhappy with the way things were going and having things end without drama and at B's initiation is very much for the best.

Perhaps B will take the time to heal herself both from this experience and also from her former marriage. While she's consistently broke, in a couple of years she'll hopefully get some money out of her inheritance and settlement which probably would be enough to buy a small house.

On the other hand, it was costing me about $400/month to have B stay here. She had good intentions on contributing and did pass over a couple of hundred to help with costs. I'm getting my old Corolla serviced on Saturday. After about 540,000 km it's now making a clunking noise in the front end. I'm suspecting worn bushing. New car for Andrew? The Toyota C-HR is quite nice.

I do confess to some curiosity as to how she's spinning this breakup to friends and family. She did make rather a big deal of meeting me and being here and how sweet and romantic I was. Her sisters and kids at least seem to have been on board with her leaving.

I am still confused as to how this went off the rails. B did indeed know what she was getting in to. I was very honest about everything. Perhaps she had a vision that I could be influenced to turn my vision of the future into what was her past. Perhaps not. Was that her explicit intent or just perhaps more likely the common tendency in us all to try to see the present and future through the mirror of the past. I know that I struggled from time to time when she would do things that reminded me of my ex and also when she didn't. In some ways I hope that she perhaps takes the opportunity to get some professional counseling to go through things. I did give her the information quite some time ago for her to pass on to her son about the free services available through the local health unit. I do doubt that she'll think of that and it's not my responsibility to suggest it.

One of the very important things I've learned over the last 3 years is to not look at sunk costs. Sure this was 6 months of my life and probably a couple of thousand dollars spent that could have been allocated elsewhere. The new vacuum cleaner is nice and the new bed is comfortable among other things. But for the most part it was a pretty good 6 months. I can look back on that, just like I can look back on the 27 years of marriage that I had and know that those experiences got me to where I am. And I'm a much better person for it all. Could I have taken other paths? Absolutely. But I didn't. And I'm ok with that.

Happy Hump Day everyone.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 03:18 PM
Andrew look to her for past for your answers, and to yours as well ... I think she saw a lovely person who had been through a terrible situation, but pulled himself up by his bootstraps and was getting on with his life, although perhaps a little lonely.

Do I think she saw you as a meal ticket? I don’t think I’d go that far, but I do think she’s very impetuous and doesn’t seem to want or know how to sit still long enough for some serious soul searching. In my observation there is a certain type of person who tends to push their way in and insist on having things their way. There was definitely an element of Cinderella’s stepmother in my mind when she immediately came in and started in on son having to move and the cats having to leave. That takes big @$$ b@lls when you’ve been in a place for like five minutes. This is one reason why I too think the excuses are total BS. Maybe she thought if the sex was good enough you’d do whatever she wanted I don’t know but there are people out there like that. I am very glad you are not someone to be manipulated in that way, and she realized it so beat a retreat.

Andrew I’ve kept my mouth shut for six months. Now she’s gone and I will be frank 🤮 I didn’t like her. I found her bossy pushy and manipulative and felt you could do far better than someone who would even think for a nanosecond that being in your life for five minutes would mean your son and fur babies would have to leave. The constant insistence that she would take care of things that never seemed to get done and putting everyone else before you when she lived in your home essentially for free ... the insistence on a new bed etc goodbye don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!!! Congratulations Andrew you have now been treated to what my friends all would recognize as vintage bttrfly, blunt, brutally honest and protective of those she cares about. In fact I wouldn’t just pack her belongings I would leave them in one place so she won’t be going about the entire house and that’s that. Ciao Bella !!
Posted By: job Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 03:18 PM
Andrew,

Give yourself some time...but we all want the best for you and it's out there...be patient. Who knows? It could be the flower lady or some lady that crosses your path when you least expect it, but whenever she does cross that path, know that she will be far more compatible with you.

BTW, don't forget to ask for your house keys when B comes around on Thursday. I may be wrong, but I do think B wants to remain friends and at some point will want to have a coffee w/you. When that time comes, you will need to decide whether or not you wish to maintain that relationship or not. Until then, continue moving forward and know that we all care about you.
Posted By: doodler Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 03:50 PM
Originally Posted by AndrewP
One of the very important things I've learned over the last 3 years is to not look at sunk costs. Sure this was 6 months of my life and probably a couple of thousand dollars spent that could have been allocated elsewhere. The new vacuum cleaner is nice and the new bed is comfortable among other things. But for the most part it was a pretty good 6 months. I can look back on that, just like I can look back on the 27 years of marriage that I had and know that those experiences got me to where I am. And I'm a much better person for it all. Could I have taken other paths? Absolutely. But I didn't. And I'm ok with that.

Happy Hump Day everyone.


Andrew,

I'm with you bro. As terrible as the divorce was, I have lots of good memories and two wonderful sons. I don't know what my life would look like if I hadn't married my now ex-wife, but it was wonderful while it lasted.

In fact, I've reached and inflection point (or maybe a reflection point); I'm going to post to my own thread to get some feedback about things related to marriage and divorce.
Posted By: doodler Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 03:52 PM
Andrew,

And regarding hump day; remember, you're on restrictions, no humping for at least one week.
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 04:04 PM
Aww Andrew - we are all dancing around the elephant in the room. Obviously this was really about your unwillingness to wear a tight polyester shirt unbuttoned to your navel and a big gold chain!!!

But seriously - just because she wasn't a good fit doesn't make her a bad person or invalidate the good times. Love in maturity will mean accepting some differences in our partners, as most people aren't going to change at this age. You did a good job of that. She has issues and I think we are all agreed that expecting you to sell your house and get rid of your cars after such a short time together was way beyond presumptuous and ungrateful.

But those may also just be excuses, she could be reconciling with her ex for all we know.

Anyway you did fine, and now you have money freed up for a car payment!
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by bttrfly
Congratulations Andrew you have now been treated to what my friends all would recognize as vintage bttrfly, blunt, brutally honest and protective of those she cares about. In fact I wouldn’t just pack her belongings I would leave them in one place so she won’t be going about the entire house and that’s that. Ciao Bella !!
LOL thanks {{{bttrfly}}}}

I'm reminded of something that the lady who runs the book shop told me about one of her dating experiences. She said that when her date saw her house that he immediately was full of big renovation ideas. Then was shown the door moments later.

I do also think that the excuses are BS at least in part. It would be interesting to hear her mother's take on things. I expect that her dumping "that nice boy" with his big house because she didn't like a bit of cat hair and the stairs might not go over well with a 91 year old that remembers the War and struggled to feed and clothe her 8 children.

As far as the stuff - Hmmm - maybe I should add a bunch of 20 something's stuff to the pile accidentally and not on purpose laugh Yeah - she still hasn't bought a house.

job - I did dust off my old POF subscription. It's paid up until next February so no rush. I'll probably mention in passing that I got dumped when I pick up my roses this weekend. It will be interesting to see what FSL's reaction will be. At just under 40 she is still a bit young for me. I'll probably start lurking online again but really I can't see actively doing anything until I get back from Madrid at the end of September. Then again - word will probably spread fairly rapidly after I have my scone on Saturday.

I do expect B to drop off the key - I'll maybe leave her a note to put it in the mailbox just to be sure.

Lunch time! A short walk then back to preparing reports for the auditors.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 05:59 PM
sorry got a tad Italian there ... xoxoxo
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by AndrewP


I'm reminded of something that the lady who runs the book shop told me about one of her dating experiences. She said that when her date saw her house that he immediately was full of big renovation ideas. Then was shown the door moments later.


I have a cousin who routinely did the same thing to every date who commented in that way on her ocean front home ... her feeling was they were more interested in the property than her so good riddance
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by bttrfly
I have a cousin who routinely did the same thing to every date who commented in that way on her ocean front home ... her feeling was they were more interested in the property than her so good riddance
Might as well keep burning through this thread. I've managed to get some work done but understandably am having a tough time focusing today. I can appreciate the Italian in you now bttrfly.

At lunch I bumped into a friend who was just gob-smacked that one of B's biggest issues was the size of the house and the cats since she wasn't allergic and the cats generally ignored her. She joked that I'd best be careful to not get lost when I got home. She was especially confused because B came from a tiny crowded apartment and figured that she'd glory in the room and privacy that this place has. She was extra surprised that B pushed to move especially since this place is indeed dead cheap to live in. I think my mortgage for this 4 bedroom house is the same as S38 pays for a crappy 2 bedroom apartment the next town over.

----

I know that generally speaking that trusting what people say vs their actions is suspect but I re-read B's long text to me from yesterday with perhaps a clearer head than I had previously.

She'd commented in the past numerous times on how I was so very much "better" than her and she went over that a few times in her message. Yes, I'm better read, have been known to add two numbers together consistently and managed to resurrect her mostly dead computer but that's to me not an indicator of the quality of a person. She was proud of it and would brag about me to her friends and family. Her note said that she was really struggling to "fit in" which is perhaps why she was consistently reluctant to / avoided meeting my friends and family(?)

The bulk of the note was on how she wasn't being fair to me and how she has so much stuff of her own to deal with that she hadn't realized was there. "I just can't give you enough of me right now" as she says.

So hoping that this is a positive thing in the long run for both of us. I do honestly think that I won't ever really understand why this didn't work out and perhaps B won't either. The reality is though - that it didn't work out - for either of us.

I'm still connected to her on social media although I turned off the "follow" feature so don't see anything in her feed - not that there's much to see. She re-posts recipes and cute videos and is silent on her personal life. I recall it bothering me that she never acknowledged "publicly" that we were seeing each other - not even a "lunch with my sweetie" - which I followed suit on. Again, like with the not un-packing - an indicator of a reluctance to commit.

I do have to ask myself the question that if she does get her issues with her son and her STBX etc all sorted out and does come back around - what will I do? I honestly don't know the answer to that especially today. I am glad that I have stood firm on my boundaries even if it meant the end of this relationship.

Much learning it turns out is painful.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/07/19 08:41 PM
You don’t need to know the answer to that Andrew until and if that happens
You have enough on your plate to deal with today without borrowing nor from the future as kemp would say
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 01:07 AM
cell phone keyboards are suboptimal !^^^^ was trying to say without borrowing more from the future as kml would say xoxoxoxo hope your night is stress free my friend xoxoxoxo {{{{{{{Andrew}}}}}}}
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 09:26 AM
Broke down and texted B last night while doing dishes. Didn't do a darned bit of good beyond confirming that she is determined that this is the right thing for her / us to do. Since she is in the "we'll always be friends" camp I don't think she minded.

I know that it will pass but the house feels so very empty right now.

This is for the best. She wasn't happy here and I was growing unhappy with her. Cognitive dissonance. Withdrawal. Time and distance are the only proper cures.

As a good knight errant I have done my duty and more. There is no Dulcinea. Only castles built on air.

I may see about staying home Friday. If she gets the rest of her stuff today then I may. I did sleep somewhat decently but I think that I haven't yet and won't for some days absorb what has happened. I don't regret standing firm on not moving any time soon but I do think that the core issue was that B wasn't ready to commit regardless of any other factors. The fact that she never unpacked what she brought from the marital home shows that independent of any noise about cats, house, or her son. I think that no matter what I had said or done that the underlying issues of her being stuck adulting for S38 and her wish to recreate the life she thought she had would have remained and perhaps gotten worse.

I think that because she was a WAW that this is easier for her to let go and move on. I'm glad that it's not easy for me even if it is for the best in the long term.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 10:49 AM
{{{{{Andrew}}}}}

This will pass but it won't be pain-free in the process. You've got a good handle on it, I think. Dulcinea is overrated. Try to figure out what it is you're supposed to learn from this relationship. Ponder that for a bit. Your answers might surprise yourself.

xoxoxoxo
hugs
Posted By: doodler Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 11:59 AM
Originally Posted by AndrewP
I know that it will pass but the house feels so very empty right now.


Andrew,

I was feeling the same way yesterday evening. I signed the papers to sell my house and suddenly the big house that was devoid of sons and pets was a terribly lonely place. Believe me, I feel your pain.

Over the past few years, pain and suffering has become a good friend; it almost always allows me to introspect and figure out what I need to do to better myself. Last night, to fight the onset of melancholy, I decided to go to the bookstore and buy a book (yes, a brick and mortar bookstore). I had a specific book in mind, but Books-A-Million didn't have the book so I went to Barnes and Noble. B&N had the book, so I bought the book and picked up a takee outee burrito and went home and started reading. I read the book until midnight and went to bed. I woke up at 4:30am and decided to continue reading until it was time to get ready for work. The book and burrito combo pulled me out of my funk and now I'm feeling so much better.

I hope you're feeling better today. If not, maybe try a book and burrito combo. smile
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by doodler
I hope you're feeling better today. If not, maybe try a book and burrito combo. smile
I might do better with a taco frown

I just laughed because I saw on my facebook feed a post from the cafe my ex-wife and I went to every Sunday morning advertising Taco Thurdsay (yes spelled that way)

I had been reading some fairly heavy stuff - mostly histories and switched a couple of weeks ago back to things that are more light and fun. I do far too much introspection here. I could probably number each and every bump in my entrails at this point.

Just opened my lunch bag - 2 spoons. My brain is certainly not firing on all cylinders. Ah well - dishes will be easier.

Word is spreading through my social circle that I'm now single again. Lots of support and sympathy. A fair amount of WTF

I also heard from B this morning. Logistics on moving out - asking where to leave her key. I asked if I get to keep the couch which was a gift / donation from her daughter who was moving or if I would repeat my "dancing naked in the living room" from 3+ years ago. The couch it seems is staying. She also re-iterated that it was all for the best and that in time "you'll see why I did it". I hope that I won't need to go back for more STD testing. I do really doubt that she's been unfaithful but as history has shown - you'll never know. In hindsight she did seem to get a lot more distant after her last visit with her STBX. I do know that there are pretty slim pickings in my rural area of available men who can afford a comfortable lifestyle. And B for all that I'm very fond of her, doesn't easily rise to the top of the pile when compared with the younger, prettier, better educated, more financially sound alternatives out there that such men would normally be attracted to. But I do recall her telling me about men who contacted her with promises of trips and adventure but who then vanished in to the mists or were obviously out for just a quick lay when she contacted them.

I do hope that she will be indeed taking time to get her stuff all sorted out and numbered and as she would say "find her level". If nothing else, the past 6 months has shown her that she can be loved for who she is which may give her the confidence in herself to be without a partner.

She's hoping to get everything remaining in one trip. I assured her that between her car and her youngest son's truck that everything except the couch should fit. It seems that her son isn't helping her move. I suspect that he didn't help on Tuesday either. It will probably be tight but since I won't be home until probably after 7:00 she has lots of time to make 2 trips. Since I did most of the packing, putting for example the clothes from her closet into garment bags and random kitchen and bathroom stuff in to boxes and totes I expect that the move will go smoother for her than she expects and it may well all fit in her car. Theoretically she could ask S24 to also take a load but doubt that she will.

I can't help but wonder what her friends and family are thinking of all of this. I recall her best friend's husband giving me a huge hug after we met and he's not a hugging sort of guy. I got on well with her friends and family that I met. I will say that I won't be hugely surprised if there is something going on that I know nothing about. I may never know though. Her STBX is certainly very attached to her and I know that they talk regularly. I suspect that B expects similar from me and will be doubtless disappointed.

The fact that her youngest son or even random friends aren't helping with the move is perhaps telling as well. I can't imagine having "Mom" move in to your basement / spare room and not helping with the logistics of it.

-----------

In other notes, because I'm now "unsupervised", I called the tattoo shop about getting another laser treatment done on my arm to get rid of the last bits of the "True Love Knot" that I had done for my now ex-wife. B had requested that I stop those because she didn't want me hurting myself but now that's not an issue. She's fired herself from that job.

Today is the 8th "adopt-a-versary" of my girls. They certainly have seniority in the house. I could perhaps blame them, or S24 for how things turned out but I really don't think it would have made any difference. Ignoring the possible conspiracy theories, B would still be trying to build her perfect life on a foundation that just doesn't support it.

Finally - I noticed this morning that my ex and OM are back from going down to visit D26 with his truck and trailer using up 4 or 5 parking spaces at her apartment. I'm sure her landlord is loving that. Given 2 days to drive down, 2 days to drive back and visiting for 2 days, they oddly must not have done any side trips. Norfolk / Virginia Beach and points between there and Ontario are filled with some really fabulous places that I regret that I'll probably never visit again. Being as he is retired now and she theoretically could do reasonably fine on just my support payments they certainly could have afforded more time. Curious watchers are watching to see if now that his house has sold if they move in together. Unless she's fundamentally changed for the better and her trending had been to get more and more selfish and angry over time, I can' see it working all that well. But then again, not my circus and I have been proven wrong about so many things so many times that I just sort of expect that.

Well - lunch time is almost done. B will probably be at the house around 2:00 after she gets off work. It will be good for her stuff to be gone when I get home. I know my ex-wife's cr@p hanging around for I can't remember how many months really put a damper on my ability to start fresh.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 04:25 PM
Dear Heart,

The oft-present need to know the sometimes unknowable... while I understand the pondering, I reiterate that your energy would be more usefully spent on creating two lists for yourself: one checklist of what you don't want, and one checklist of what you do want. Make these factoring in the new knowledge that you have in the post-B relationship world. You may want to go so far as a friend of mine has gone - he's actually got "rules" and they seem to work for him.

Andrew my dear we're still in the dust settling post-B phase, so I understand the focus on her and naturally a bit on exw, but I want you to know that my personal wish for you is that you put these two behind you and focus exclusively on what you want and need in any future relationships so that you can get really clear, very specific, and use your incredible energy to manifest that for yourself.

She (whomever she is) will be lucky and you and the cats will be happy. happy 8 years with Amy and Liz, two lovely ladies without baggage and with gratitude.

xoxoxoxoxo
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by AndrewP
I also heard from B this morning. Logistics on moving out - asking where to leave her key. I asked if I get to keep the couch which was a gift / donation from her daughter who was moving or if I would repeat my "dancing naked in the living room" from 3+ years ago. The couch it seems is staying. She also re-iterated that it was all for the best and that in time "you'll see why I did it". I hope that I won't need to go back for more STD testing. I do really doubt that she's been unfaithful but as history has shown - you'll never know. In hindsight she did seem to get a lot more distant after her last visit with her STBX. I do know that there are pretty slim pickings in my rural area of available men who can afford a comfortable lifestyle. And B for all that I'm very fond of her, doesn't easily rise to the top of the pile when compared with the younger, prettier, better educated, more financially sound alternatives out there that such men would normally be attracted to. But I do recall her telling me about men who contacted her with promises of trips and adventure but who then vanished in to the mists or were obviously out for just a quick lay when she contacted them.

I do hope that she will be indeed taking time to get her stuff all sorted out and numbered and as she would say "find her level". If nothing else, the past 6 months has shown her that she can be loved for who she is which may give her the confidence in herself to be without a partner.
Andrew my dear, you are the KING of mind-reading. STOP IT! It does you absolutely no good and you even say throughout the post that you may never know so stop trying to read into things and suss out what happened. Take her at her word and move on. That whole "let's be friends" thing sounds lovely, but you know what, it honestly doesn't work. I mean, it may work for those who have younger children, at least on the surface, for the sake of the kids, but we are farther along on life's path than some of the others on this board and our kids are adults, so trust me when I tell you that there is really no good to come from remaining friends. You will always just wonder if she's being honest, if she was honest about the break-up, a million things that are NOT your concern. She is who she is and she did what she did for her own reasons, whether she is actually voicing them or not. As we have all deduced and I think you agree with, the cats and oppressive house were BS, but you are smart enough to know there is an underlying reason that you are not privy to and may never be. Wish her well and move on. You can't assume she was unfaithful anymore than you can assume she was faithful, if that makes sense. I mean, I know people talk on this board all the time about how spouses are unfaithful and they didn't know. H3ll, mine was and I had no idea until after the fact, but my point is, if you allow yourself to go down that trail of thinking, you will maybe taint what could just be a nice memory of a relationship with a nice lady that had some good points and just be a pleasant little blip on the radar.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
I can't help but wonder what her friends and family are thinking of all of this. I recall her best friend's husband giving me a huge hug after we met and he's not a hugging sort of guy. I got on well with her friends and family that I met. I will say that I won't be hugely surprised if there is something going on that I know nothing about. I may never know though. Her STBX is certainly very attached to her and I know that they talk regularly. I suspect that B expects similar from me and will be doubtless disappointed.

The fact that her youngest son or even random friends aren't helping with the move is perhaps telling as well. I can't imagine having "Mom" move in to your basement / spare room and not helping with the logistics of it.
All of this makes me think of something that someone I admire and respect used to say to me often. I'd ramble on about something and when I was through, he would say "so what?" You can't fix it or solve it or glean any real, true answers from it, so why worry about it? What her friends and family think are none of your concern and other than the possibility that you might run into them at some point and have contact, she will be left to deal with it, not you. While I thought B was a nice lady all along (and though I'm disappointed that she hurt you, I don't necessarily think that she is not still a nice lady), she always seemed kind of flighty and one who kind of goes where the wind blows her. So, the point is there very well may NOT be something going on that you nothing about. It may just be her whim and she seems mighty subject to those. Think about it. She knew her son's lease was going to be up in June. She knew that she needed to be with him to facilitate his having custody of his kids. And with those things in her path, she still jumped up and moved in with you rather quickly in your relationship, not even to mention the fact that she did all that while still married to someone else. I'm not in B's head and I'm not trying to mind read, but I honestly don't think ANY of this had anything to do with you.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
Finally - I noticed this morning that my ex and OM are back from going down to visit D26 with his truck and trailer using up 4 or 5 parking spaces at her apartment. I'm sure her landlord is loving that. Given 2 days to drive down, 2 days to drive back and visiting for 2 days, they oddly must not have done any side trips. Norfolk / Virginia Beach and points between there and Ontario are filled with some really fabulous places that I regret that I'll probably never visit again. Being as he is retired now and she theoretically could do reasonably fine on just my support payments they certainly could have afforded more time. Curious watchers are watching to see if now that his house has sold if they move in together. Unless she's fundamentally changed for the better and her trending had been to get more and more selfish and angry over time, I can' see it working all that well. But then again, not my circus and I have been proven wrong about so many things so many times that I just sort of expect that.
At the risk of going off on the tangent of "chastising" you yet again about wasting too much thought/time/effort on your XW, let me just bullet point my thoughts about this paragraph:
* LET IT GO!
*Are YOU the curious watcher because you seem to know a LOT about the particulars?
* People do not fundamentally change. They may change attitudes about certain things or specific likes and dislikes, but people will always be who they are.
* You said it, NOT YOUR CIRCUS, so STOP showing up at the big top!

I really do wish you all the best, Andrew, and am truly sorry things didn't work out with B. I think you are a great catch and I KNOW there is a lovely, worthy woman out there somewhere waiting for you to come along. So, let B go, let the XW go and for once, just focus on Andrew. Stop worrying about everyone else and worry about you. You are totally worth it!!!!!!!!
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 05:26 PM
Criteria for new woman:
1) Must like cats
2) Must be fiscally responsible and hopefully self-sufficient
3) Good in bed
4) Kind
5) Reasonably tidy (asking for someone on your level there may be too much)
6) Interested in ideas and the world

I think 1, 2 and 6 were areas where B was lacking.
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 05:57 PM
Quote
She also re-iterated that it was all for the best and that in time "you'll see why I did it".


Either you'll "see" because she got back together with her ex or you'll "see" because you'll meet someone who is much better suited to you.
Posted By: job Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 06:23 PM
I have one more to add to kml's list: Self starter and can follow through on what you say you will do.
Posted By: doodler Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 07:49 PM
My additions to the list on behalf of Andrew:

Must be totally and completely into pie.
Smokin' hot
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by kml
Criteria for new woman:
1) Must like cats
2) Must be fiscally responsible and hopefully self-sufficient
3) Good in bed
4) Kind
5) Reasonably tidy (asking for someone on your level there may be too much)
6) Interested in ideas and the world

I think 1, 2 and 6 were areas where B was lacking.

Originally Posted by job
I have one more to add to kml's list: Self starter and can follow through on what you say you will do.

Hard time focusing this afternoon. Not a surprise to anyone. I'm figuring I'll be in new thread and hopefully new direction mode by the weekend.

LOL on #5 - There were actual dirty breakfast and S24's midnight supper dishes on the counter when I left this morning which is the usual. I had thought about cleaning them up so that B wouldn't see a dirty counter (yeah - I know - why would I be trying to impress her) but realized I was running out of time. I ended up being 20 minutes late for work regardless. And her dressers which had been covered with various and sundry "stuff" but were bare when I saw them were left dusty last night although that did take an effort.

I believe that one of the pictures on POF was of my cat Amy and I watching Bloomberg News together. She does want to be sure that her portfolios are performing well I suppose wink As we've explored ad-nauseum, B actually on the surface ticked off pretty much all of these boxes. #3 was one that I explicitly didn't focus on but was very happy and rather surprised at the results. Even being woken up routinely at 3:30 am to just hold and be held will certainly be very missed. I was awake again this morning right then and felt the loss.

The key thing to be learned from all of this is that it is undoubtedly common for people to work hard on being the person that they think the other person wants them to be and that in turn they try to turn the other person in to their own vision of what they want. I do also think that no amount of dating, going through check lists, being extra careful is going to reveal what the real person is like. Some of us don't find out for years and years that we've been living with someone who is behind a mask.

B I think struggled to fit in to what she perceived as my world and wanted me to embrace her's. On my part I worked on accepting that she had different priorities and habits while at the same time TBH having some resentment that it took her time and attention away from me.

I will confess that I went online and checked B's dating profile. Last login was at the end of March when she was asking me how to go about deactivating it. Her and technology have not been good friends so I wasn't surprised that it was still there and still the same. This sort of snooping is so very 2016 and I'm both happy that she's not been trolling for men and annoyed at myself for having that lapse of trust that caused me to look.

I do need to believe what she has said and the actions she has taken. I do actually understand a lot of the "why" and the "what". What she has said makes a lot of sense and her actions have followed her words. Trust comes in all sorts of levels and for me it's mixed up inside perhaps because of my history with my former marriage where a lack of trust in the little things bleeds over to a lack of trust in the big things.

One thing I have learned is that I don't regret the last 6 months. Just like in my marriage I don't think that there was a single thing that I could have / would have done differently that could have changed the outcome. I don't see this as a failure for myself nor as a failure of B. Even though I am hurt and will need time to heal, right here, right now, I can honestly say that I have no regrets and I hope that B doesn't either.

I checked the weather forecast. The heavy pop-up thundershowers that have blown through here in Toronto didn't seem to go anywhere close to home. B will have had time now to get to the house and get her stuff. I'll probably leave here shortly. Rather early, but it's been a quiet day and I really can't focus.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by doodler
My additions to the list on behalf of Andrew:

Must be totally and completely into pie.
Smokin' hot
B did really quite like the black currant and rhubarb pie I made last Sunday although she did toss out a bit of the over-cooked crust. There's still a few pieces left if you stop by in the next few days.

And she had hot flashes ALL the time so that counts for the Smokin' hot part right?
Posted By: doodler Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by AndrewP
And she had hot flashes ALL the time so that counts for the Smokin' hot part right?


Absolutely! Hot flashes count.

It's like the 90 year man said, "I have sex almost every day. Almost on Sunday. Almost on Monday. Almost on Tuesday. Almost on Wednesday...
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 11:22 PM
She left the contents of her lingerie drawer. I took a picture and messaged her that I would box them up and leave them beside the door in the morning.

It could have been overlooked in the rush but is an odd coincidence. Painful reminder of some great fun had.

Got shocked surprise and electronic kisses in return.

Pretty much everything else was picked up and nothing extra taken, nor anything left. The cats are happy to get the laundry room window back. It has one of the better views of the doves that often hang around.

I had myself a big piece of pie and then off to bed after I do the dishes. I'm hoping to have lunch with a good friend tomorrow who will probably push his opinion that I need to find someone young and limber. In good humor.
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/08/19 11:29 PM
At least someone who doesn't have a problem with stairs
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/09/19 12:24 AM
bwahhha she took the words right off my keyboard re: stairs!

and no fascination with waterfront property!
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/09/19 09:58 AM
Mornings are tough and probably will be for a while. The empty spot that someone used to occupy echos in the silence. Having gone through far worse none of this is really unexpected. Even though I didn't love nearly so deeply nor as long this time, it still hurts.

This is so very very different. Unlike before there is no realistic hope of getting back together. B's stated issues for leaving are just too fundamental to overcome.

Looking around the house it's amazing how little has been changed to put it back to the way it was 6 months ago. Some things in the cupboards have been re-arranged and will probably stay that way. Unusually she had little "installed" in the bathrooms but kept most of her stuff in a travel bag as she was always shifting location between here, the cottage and elsewhere.

She had big ideas about helping to redecorate this place, one of several things that just didn't happen. She was going to take time in the summer to strip and paint the kitchen cupboards. They look the same as they did 3 years ago. The living room, dining room and bedroom were to be painted. They remain the same. The flower beds and landscaping only have my influence on them.

The cats, especially Liz are glorying in being able to hang out in the laundry room again with it's comfortable window to watch the birds out of.

Odd that she only landed here so lightly. Thinking about it though after she left the marital home she lived first with her mother and then S38. In both cases the place wasn't her's. "Her" place was in her mind I think still the marital home which she often referred to in the possessive. It took much nagging for her to refer to this as "Nona's house" and "home" rather than "Andrew's house".

There is a temptation to "get back on the horse again" and start dating but boy oh boy do I need to take at least a short break. I did look a bit more closely at what CL is up to and she seems to be working along her own path. There is a temptation to invite her out for lunch, but no.

One of the "advantages" of the fact that for whatever reason this relationship was done in stealth mode - which was always a concern to me - is that a lot of people only perhaps have a vague idea that I was dating someone. Only a select few people knew that we were living together.

There were some things that had been loaned to S38 and the GK that B said she'd bring back but aren't here. I'm expecting to mark those off as lost.

Will B invite me out to lunch or coffee? The odds are non-zero. I know that she kept in touch with pretty much everyone who she dated or even those who she just connected to via OLD. This is in some ways a positive thing about her character but also I believe a negative for me.

Will she / does she regret making the unilateral decision to leave? Perhaps. It is my intention to apply the "DB" techniques, not in an effort to get her to change her mind but to help me move forward. Do my own thing - my muted version of GAL. Do my best to not communicate. Work on finding Joy in each and every day. Many who have played the home game often have "heard me say" - "you don't know that you're living under a cloud until you walk in the sunshine". It does in some ways feel like there was some darkness over me especially in the recent times. I'm sitting at my kitchen table looking towards the east. I can see the sky lightening behind the trees.

Time for me to make my tea and have a shower.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/09/19 11:04 AM
I’m sorry Andrew that you’re feeling so somber today. I think you are right to take a break. I’m in my car in my driveway and when I face east I see a flock of wild turkeys across my lawn having breakfast, seven in total.

Yes GAL activities are helpful. If I were to be introspective I would be asking why I chose to be with someone so very different from me and what lessons are to be learned from this. I wouldn’t spend any more time wondering about the other party in the equation as that wouldn’t help me to move forward.

The turkeys are getting closer. I wonder if they realize I’m here ??? I wish I could take a photo of them for you.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/09/19 06:37 PM
((bttrfly)) - I wonder if they are the same sort of wild turkeys we have here. When I was a lad they had all been hunted to extinction I had presumed in my part of Ontario. Now they are a major pest. I do expect that we have mutual acquaintances who could pass pictures along.

Almost done the thread.

Got random ILU texts from B as I was driving in and again late morning. I responded to the second one like I would normally have. I'm actually rather proud of myself for not over-thinking things "too" much. Although I now stared at the screen for a good 15 minutes doing exactly that wink

Just because she unilaterally chose to move out and to decide that it won't work between us doesn't change the way that I feel. I just have to wait for those feelings to fade and turn in to fond memories.

I can't imagine that her decision was made spur of the moment although it kinda appears that way. There were lots of signs from way at the beginning that she wasn't comfortable. Reluctance to meet my friends and family and serious awkwardness around them. She was happy in her world and to have me in it, but not at all in mine. Her not unpacking to any significant degree nor putting her "stamp" on the house and only reluctantly referring to it as "home" over time.

I do hope that she does let me go my own way even as part of me wishes that she would want to work things out. kml would certainly be able to point out numerous things that I could have done better / differently, most of which I agree with.

Even though I'm now poking around in stealth mode on OLD, unless a woman drops from the sky in to my lap I don't have any expectation of dating until at least early October when I'm back from Spain if not longer. And even if a supposed woman does drop out of the sky - it's been know to happen - I have to in both my head and heart put the relationship with B behind me first. It would be unfair to B, to the possible lady and especially to myself.

I don't recall what her plans had been for this upcoming weekend but expect that she'll be back out at the cottage again with a handful of grand-kids. The weather is supposed to be fabulous. While she was comfortable bringing the GK to our/my house I don't think that she will so much to her younger son's house where I believe she has moved in. She has only historically had them over there a couple of times in the last year and a half. She may or may not tell her mother that she walked out and may or may not get an earful about that. Her mother quite liked me and I think the facts that I was able to provide for her daughter in a comfortable fashion as well as being a decent and polite person are certainly in my favour.

For me, I'm hoping to get out for a hike in the woods and have some monthly cleaning to finish up including the dusting and vacuuming plus a bunch of yard work.

I'm also taking the old Corolla - almost 540,000 km on it now - in for an oil change and to see what that "clunk" is in the front end when I go over bumps. If it's expensive and a safety risk I may well pull the trigger on a new car. Cash is a bit tight right now but that is in part because of money saved for the new flooring that B helped me pick out for the kitchen / laundry room. Fingers cross though that it's just a loose bushing that can either be tightened / shimmed or ignored and doesn't pose a safety hazard.

I was chatting online with an old friend this morning who suggested that I have - ahem - a lot of fun with the Spanish senoritas when I go to Spain next month. He has different priorities than I do. I can't see anything happening even now that we've split that a girlfriend would have an objection to. For one thing rather too risky in lots of different ways. I do need to start doing some solid planning and preparation.

As part of that - after some effort - I signed up for a pre-paid VISA card to take with me that I can load with Euros. The clever thing about it is that I can also load up other currencies including pounds, pesos and US$ and switch them between buckets - presumably with a charge. This will be helpful for next spring when I go to San Diego for my birthday to manage my budget there too. It also protects me a bit as I can leave my usual card in the hotel room safe when I'm out and about enjoying tapas and local wines.

Is it quitting time yet??? Please ???
Posted By: Westo Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/09/19 07:28 PM
Any ideas on the title of your next thread?
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/10/19 01:28 AM


Originally Posted by AndrewP
((bttrfly)) - I wonder if they are the same sort of wild turkeys we have here. When I was a lad they had all been hunted to extinction I had presumed in my part of Ontario. Now they are a major pest. I do expect that we have mutual acquaintances who could pass pictures along.

yes I think the turkeys are the same. most people consider them pests. I love them.

re mutual friends to pass photos - don't think so?
I've not had much luck on the Fb DB front? Hmm. might have to try my hand at that.

BTW, as a total aside, has anyone heard from Miss V? I'm kind of getting worried about her extended absence.

Your weekend plans sound nice, esp the hike.

Yes, I can totally see this being a spur of the moment decision on B's part. Seems most of her decisions are spur of the moment ones. She doesn't seem to be one to ponder overly long ...

Follow your instincts re: Spanish ladies, not old friend's. Yikes.

It's late-is enough that I'm exhausted or I'd write more, but did want to add that it felt like a military crawl to get to 5pm today. Don't know what it is about this week but it just seemed to d r a g.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/10/19 02:16 AM
Originally Posted by bttrfly
BTW, as a total aside, has anyone heard from Miss V? I'm kind of getting worried about her extended absence.
I had a lovely extended chat with Lady V just the other day. She is in my opinion doing rather well but I think still has difficult days.
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/10/19 03:10 AM
Quote
kml would certainly be able to point out numerous things that I could have done better / differently, most of which I agree with.


Not so, my friend. This was not a failure on your part. Sure, you could have spent more time at the lake but I don't think that would have made any difference. The fact that she was so reluctant to enter your world tells me a lot.

And although I agree that she doesn't seem to think things through, I don't think this was totally impulsive either - she was giving off vibes for quite some time prior, that's why you were starting to wonder if she was using you. (Which I don't think is true btw).

As for her texting ILU now - nope nope nope. She specifically stated that she did not wish to continue the relationship, right? So she doesn't get to keep stringing you along as Plan B. If she tries it again I'd just say "I really cared for you B but now that we are no longer in a romantic relationship this is not appropriate. "
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/10/19 10:24 AM
^^^^ that^^^^

It’s not right, the I love you’s. Exactly what KML said is what you need to say. You only get stung along or put on a shelf if you allow it. Don’t allow it.
Posted By: exquisitetobe Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/10/19 10:41 AM
I totally agree.. you do not show ( action ) love by leaving.
You have been a good partner to her. You supported her. You opened your home and your life to her.
She did the same at the beginning but then withdrew slowly from you. Her words and actions no longer matched.

I do beleive it is for the best to go your separate way.
I had tge impression that you would have made all tge compromise and she would have kept asking for more and more out of you. She was not a good fit for you but you would not have known if you would have not try..

((( Andrew )))
Posted By: bttrfly Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/10/19 11:21 AM
Originally Posted by kml

And although I agree that she doesn't seem to think things through, I don't think this was totally impulsive either - she was giving off vibes for quite some time prior, that's why you were starting to wonder if she was using you. (Which I don't think is true btw).


I also don't think she was using you, just jumped too quickly without looking first. I don't think she ever stops to consider deeply the consequences of her decisions.

Originally Posted by kml
As for her texting ILU now - nope nope nope. She specifically stated that she did not wish to continue the relationship, right? So she doesn't get to keep stringing you along as Plan B. If she tries it again I'd just say "I really cared for you B but now that we are no longer in a romantic relationship this is not appropriate. "


Andrew, this one is probably going to be hard but I agree ... that's a limit you're going to need to set and stick with.

xoxo
Posted By: job Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/10/19 12:05 PM
I am 100% in agreement w/the other posters....you do not want to be Plan B or set up on a shelf until she's ready to come back around. The ILU's...nope...you don't leave then say them.

B just has too much baggage and needs to sort through it before she gets into a relationship. I hope that she can get herself sorted out, but that won't happen as long as her adult son is relying on her for her full support/attention and her husband is still in the picture. Until she gets them sorted out, she'll continue to flit across the pond back and forth and one day, she may come to realize what a true gem that you are and it will be too late.

Glad to read that Ms. V is doing well. If you chat w/her again, please send my regards.
Posted By: kml Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/10/19 02:20 PM
As for this:
Quote
you do not show ( action ) love by leaving

Just want to say that it wasn't her moving out that was the problem- it was her ending the relationship.

If she had moved out to attend to her grandchild obligations and/or because you guys moved in together too soon but still wanted to continue the relationship and had said so, that would be a completely different story. But she made it clear she was ending the relationship as well, correct?
Posted By: job Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/10/19 04:48 PM
Andrew,

Time for a new thread. Turn the page and start a new chapter.
Posted By: AndrewP Re: It's a world of laughter - 08/10/19 08:43 PM
Thanks job as always.

Westo's question about the title of my new thread had me to think furiously. A trivial question perhaps but one that shapes my thinking as I diary here.

My new thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2860914&#Post2860914
From Ushant to Scilly 'tis thirty-five leagues

If you want to know what the heck I'm talking about, you'll have to click the link wink

------------

A fairly good day here. No contact from B which is undoubtedly good. I need to make sure I don't contact her.

I had my old Corolla - Rocinante (again obscure reference) in to have her oil changed this morning and to have the clunk in her forward port side diagnosed. It turns out that the shocks there are now leaking which also explains the increased motion I get over bumps. The repair would be about $1500 which pushes me over the line for a new car. She will still run along fine and be safe and if as usual I avoid bumps things will work along. I have my salesman looking at a new Toyota C-HR for me. The pricing and budget are on point, but as I told him, each month without a car payment is a good month. We'll see if any special deals come up but I do expect that I'll have a new car which will need a new name before snow flies - and yes - that's a time-stamp here in Ontario.

The dealer offered me about $100 for the old girl but agreed that I will get far more doing it privately.

While doing my errands I did mention to FSL that I am currently single again which caused her to do some quick math in her head about how long the relationship with B was. Her number was 3 months which I didn't dispute. She was as gob-smacked as I was about the superficial reasons for B leaving because as everyone knows, B knew that I had a big house, didn't want to move and had cats well before she moved in.

It's sad in some ways on how easy it has been to put the house back to the way it was. The queen sized pillows with their inexpensive bamboo cases have been put away replaced by the smaller pillows with the embroidered cotton cases. The whole set of bamboo sheets that B purchased have in fact been put away as guest sheets. They were very inexpensive and light and the high thread-count cotton sheets I've been using since my divorce are now the standards.

"The girls" are glorying in their access to the laundry room and Liz was nervous but happy on the bed this afternoon after knocking last week's roses down. They'll certainly enjoy getting back to their usual luxuriating in the MBR tomorrow while I do the ironing.

I'm healing. As I told a good friend earlier today. This is a process, it's not an event. I do love B. I'd like to believe that she loves me too. The relationship didn't work out for quite a number of reasons.

Since my preferred direction is sailing to windward, "tack ho!". Off sheets, tacks and braces. Stand By. Haul all away!
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