No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III

Posted By: DejaVu6

No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 07/25/19 08:32 PM

Link to old thread in Newcomers section: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2858705&page=11
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 07/25/19 09:10 PM

Hello All. After ten months on the Newcomers Forum and my divorce being finalized in the courts currently, I decided it was time to switch to Surviving the Big D and I am hoping my "people" from Newcomers will continue to follow along. This is a section of the community I originally did not want to be a part of but now that the worst is over and I am finding me again, I am actually happy and proud to be joining you. I did not save my MR... there wasn't much to save, truth be told, but...I did save me and I have the people in this community to thank. Without your support, I'm pretty sure I would not be in this position... finding happiness again being DV6 2.0.

Yail...to respond to your last post on my thread in Newcomers. Jack has slowly but surely been having a bit more interaction with my kids and it is going pretty well. He is pretty comfortable with S11 but is very cautious with D11 as she has a very "flirty" personality and he is not used to being around kids so it scares him a bit. He told me the last time he was over when they were home, she threw a blanket over his head when I was in the bathroom and it seemed to him she was trying to get him to roughhouse with her (she is definitely a bit of a tom boy). Apparently that scared him a bit so he opted out which is just fine with me...lol. I'd rather he be super cautious and respectful of my kids than overly comfortable and friendly as that would probably set off some alarm bells in my head [once a social worker, always a social worker]. Would not date anyone who is more interested in my kids than me, that's for sure.

I am also not surprised about him not wanting me to meet his friends. He told me before he thinks I am out of his league and I suspect he thinks my meeting his friends might remind me of that. Little does he know that most of my friends are a lot more like him and don't have multiple degrees or own million dollar homes. I've been very lucky in that regard and I see it as that. Frankly, I came from a small town and I am most comfortable with small town people. When I lived on the mainland in the ritzy part of the city, I felt like a fish out of water and did not feel like I had a lot in common with my neighbours or my kids' friends' parents. I grew up next to a farm, I play pool for fun, I've been to my share of "pit parties" and campfire sing-a-longs so my dating a welder/musician does not feel weird to me at all. But I am aware there are two sides to every story and I know that I am not the norm for him. Maybe I'll just have to drink beer instead of wine and swear around him more...lol. laugh

Anyway...normally he would have gone back home this morning (an hour drive away) but I asked him to stay because I said work is always way less stressful when I can look forward to seeing him at the end of the day. He pressed me a bit on "why" that would make a difference and "why" I wanted to meet his friends and I got the impression he was asking me about my feelings for him. I just told him that I knew at the beginning that he was "dangerous" for me and he reminded me that I said we were a bad idea and have I changed my mind about that and if so, why? Hmmm.... not the discussion to have when I have five minutes to get to work so I told him that I had obviously changed my mind about that (well...almost) and "because I have"...lol. Discussion to be continued, I'm sure. I was surprised he brought up the "bad idea" comment which is what I said to him on our second date three months ago. Made me wonder if he is still thinking about that and if that is the reason it feels like he has kind of backed off a bit. I think both of us are scared we might be fooling ourselves that this could work longterm and are waiting to see where he ends up working as that could really change things...for better or worse. I think I'm hoping for better even though, not gonna lie, our age difference is still weighing on me a bit. Not now. It's fine now cause I look like I am 40. But the reality is that I'm not and in ten years when I'm 61 and he is 48...will it still work? Or in 20 years when I'm 71 and he is 58? It could look a whole lot different. But then again, who says either of us will even live that long...lol? Given what I have been through with my XH, it is funny how I still make decisions with the assumption that I can control any of that.

So much rambling...lol. I feel like I just did some stream of consciousness writing and I'm too lazy and bored with myself to edit it. So there it is... the jumbled mess of thoughts and emotions that are on my mind and in my heart. Oh well...over all, at least I am still having lots and lots of fun!!! laugh

Love and (((HUGS))) to all of you out there in DB Land. xo
Posted By: kml

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 07/25/19 09:44 PM

13 years isn't that bad. After all, lots of women live to 85 and their husbands die at 73. You could still outlive him. According to recent statistics the life expectancy for US men is 73.4 and women 80.1.

But also - ask yourself, if you had 15 great years together and then broke up, would that be ok? Nothing is guaranteed. He could get lung cancer like my boyfriend. Don't borrow trouble from the future. So long as you're in reasonably similar stages of life (i.e. he doesn't want more kids, you don't want to retire tomorrow) and you are enjoying each other, it should be no issue. It does sound to me like he thinks you're nt serious about him because he's been carrying that comment of yours around in his head all this time.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 07/25/19 10:19 PM

Really, really good points KML. You are so right about there not being any guarantees and I think I would rather have 15 good years with him than 30 "meh" years. Not that we are anywhere close to that as we are still seeing how we fit into each other's lives. But if it came to that...

Predictably I did not get a lot of sleep last night. Still getting used to sharing a bed with someone who always has to be touching me in some way. While he doesn't say a whole lot about his feelings for me, he certainly makes up for it in how physically affectionate he is. My XH said "I love you" a lot, most of it lies, but the physical affection went out the window as soon as he decided we were done (about one year prior to BD1). Certainly I didn't feel that he was saying it with any genuine affection. Jack is the opposite although he did a lot of staring into my eyes last night that gave me the impression he was on the verge of saying something.

Different kind of fear I'm dealing with these days... To be continued... laugh
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 07/26/19 02:08 PM

Great night with Jack last night and I am drinking my morning coffee and getting ready for my day. Jackís friend, who lives a few hours away, is driving here today to hang out with him. Jack said last night that his friend wants them to get a hotel for a couple nights so they can go out and not worry about driving. He said he wasnít too keen on the idea as he wanted to spend Saturday with me. I suggested they just stay at my house as the kids are at their dadís and my sparent is supposed to be going out of town. Jack looked kinda surprised that I suggested it. I just said it made sense as I have a ton of space and hotel rooms around here are expensive in the summer. He agreed and said he was grateful for the invitation and would let me know after he talked to his friend. Heís still worried about what his friend might say but seems more comfortable with risking it. So...this weekend could be really interesting.

Oh...and another example of six degrees of separation. Jack has a really good friend who is a swim coach in town. They used to compete against each other as teenagers and became friends. I was out on a walk with a coworker yesterday and remembered that her S11 is a swimmer. I asked her if she knew Jackís friend and it turns out she does. She said he is a ďsweetheartĒ and her favourite of all of her sonís coaches. I texted Jack about the ďsmall worldĒ and he texted back that he agreed, and said his friend is ďgreatĒ and has his head screwed on right. So...I guess not all of his friends are annoying...lol.

Anyway...gotta get ready for my day. I have Monday off so Iím looking forward to my three-day weekend and plan to make the most of it. Volunteering at a breakfast for the homeless tomorrow morning. Iím the pancake lady and my twin is the person who dishes up the food for the people waiting on tables. She always brings her portable speaker so her and I have a great time dancing around and singing to our favourite songs. Our voices blend really well and weíve actually had people ask if weíve ever recorded which is hilarious. Uh no... not quitting our day jobs anytime soon...lol.

Hope everyone has a great weekend. Love and (((HUGS))) to you all!!!
Posted By: SoTorn

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 07/26/19 07:25 PM

Hi DJ. Glad you are doing well. This is our new beginning. We get to write our future now and we won't have someone blaming us and holding us down. I guess welcome to this forum. Lets kick life in the teeth!
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 07/27/19 12:37 AM

Hey ST!! Great to hear from you. Yes...this is our new beginning!! I, for one, am so grateful to be through the worst and am looking forward to whatever life has in store for me. Funny thing happened today. My XH accidentally FaceTimed me and I answered it because I thought it might be one of my kids using his phone. He didnít realize he had called me and he answered it for the same reason. So...there we were...face to face for the first time since all this began. We both laughed when we figured out what had occurred. I told him to have a nice weekend and he told me the same and that was that. Six months ago that would have sent me spinning. Today it was like I had just run into someone on the street that I used to know. No emotions...good or bad. I went on with my day. What a glorious place to be. I am happy...I am strong... I am AWOAFWL. Onwards and upwards...lol. (((HUGS))) to you for getting there with me!!! Have a fantastic weekend and keep us posted on how you are doing. xoxo
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 07/30/19 02:22 PM

So...Jack stayed until Monday afternoon. We had a bit of a ďthingĒ on Saturday. I had offered to let his friend stay at my house on Friday night instead of paying money for a hotel and Jack said he would ask and let me know. When Jack met up with him around noon, he told him he already had a room so he was just going to stay downtown and Jack said he would stay with him. Not a big deal except Jack waited until 10 pm to text me this. Said they had spent all day by the river and had gone to an early movie that was really long. I was irritated when the text came in so I didnít respond. I had to volunteer at a breakfast the next morning so sent him a text that basically said I wasnít impressed he waited until 10:00 to text me info he could have texted at noon and that I thought it was really inconsiderate of him and it was concerning he didnít know that or that he did know that and didnít care. He responded a couple hours later saying that I was right and apologized and that in his defense, he was having a lot of trouble with his ancient phone (I hate that thing) and that he also didnít think I would be mad. Looking at it from my perspective, however, he understood where I was coming from and said he felt really bad and wanted to make it up to me somehow. He stayed at my place until Monday afternoon and was his typical attentive self.

Sunday afternoon we were heading out to the grocery store and he blurted out that he loves me. I heard myself say it back and it felt right but, of course, now I am panicking. We are so different and he is so young... not just in age but in lifestyle and life experience. We do not make sense on paper at all. Iím a mom...he is a bit uncomfortable around kids. I have three university degrees...heís a welder and a musician (very talented) but quite smart. I have a good job with benefits... he is currently on EI and needs to find another job in a month or so which could be anywhere. I own a home and a rental home... he doesnít seem to own anything but also doesnít have any huge debts. Iíve been married twice and had a couple of serious relationships. He hasnít had any serious relationships to speak of. I am reasonably outgoing and comfortable in social settings... he is more introverted and is great one-on-one but becomes very quiet when there is more than one other person in the room. I love traveling and have been to other countries. He says he would like to travel but hasnít been anywhere other than Disneyland when he was a teen. He doesnít even have a passport right now. I am a communicator... he admits this is not his strong suit but responds really well when I have confronted him on anything. On the positive side... we have a GREAT time together. He can be really silly and makes me laugh. Sex is great and sometimes I feel like I canít kiss him enough. I am super comfortable with him and happy when he is around.

IDK... Am I just fooling myself or getting carried away because it feels so good to be with someone who is so into me and who is so affectionate with me? I was emotionally starved in my marriage so am I just responding to him in this way because of that?
Posted By: kml

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 07/30/19 06:46 PM

Sex is great and sometimes I feel like I canít kiss him enough. I am super comfortable with him and happy when he is around.

You don't have to marry him for life!!! Why not just enjoy this for now and see where it goes? No decisions need to be made right now.

As a welder he'll always have work and at least he doesn't have $100k in student loans! You have the great luxury of not NEEDING a man to be well off because you've got your own financial security, and at least he is able to pay his own bills. I'd rather be with a guy of modest means who knows how to live within them than with some wealthier guy who runs up a lot of debt trying to live a certain lifestyle. I'd also rather date a welder who does good honest work than a hedge fund manager who is just a white collar criminal in disguise.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 07/30/19 08:15 PM

I am so glad you are on this forum KML... you always have such good solid points that make a lot of sense. I have a history of rushing into things and I think I am just overthinking a lot. I tell myself every other day just to take things one day at a time and not make any big decisions... see where I am at in six months, etc... Give our relationship time to develop naturally or not. The welder thing is not an issue to me at all. I agree with you. I would much rather be with someone who lives within his means and is content with that, than with someone who is always trying to put on a show and going deeper into debt. I prefer Jack to that guy for sure.

The musician thing... both my ex husbands are musicians...is a bit more cause for concern. Not in itself... I greatly admire people who are talented in that way...but my first husband, who has a boatload of talent, has spent his adult life working to live and waiting for his big break. Now he is 54, separated from his second wife for the past 10 years, living with his parents (she has the house) and is still working to live and waiting for his big break. He is 12 years away now from retirement age and has no idea how he is going to support himself and still has rock star dreams. Jack is a lot like him in that regard and I could see him doing the same thing and becoming progressively disillusioned and depressed over time when/if it doesn't happen. The age difference aside, this is my big concern with him - especially since he has said I am his "vacation" from his life and in his real life, he is not the happy, silly, fun guy that he is with me. But... you are right...I don't need to make any big decisions. I think having some patience and seeing where things go is a great 180 for me. smile
Posted By: Ginger1

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 07/30/19 10:15 PM

I agree with KML.....

But one thing I would caution you against..... I know you involved the kids already. But if you are having fun and seeing where itís going and have no plans for the future yet, I would pull back on the kid thing and sleep over when kids are home thing. My daughter is your kidís age. Sheís happy for me to date. She loves my boyfriend and his son. I waited until 5 and a half months for introductions.

I dated a guy for 3 months who was younger than me and it didnít work out because of that. He was 28I was 37 at the time. He wanted kids, but not for a long time, and I was done with having kids. She knew about him because we went to the same gym class thing together and my D came with me. So I thought there would be no harm having him around. She got somewhat attached and was really sad when we ended it. I decided I didnít want to subject her to that. They feel it when it ends too, even if you think they arenít attached . They get used to the routine of them coming over.

I say date, enjoy yourself, see where it goes. Enjoy YOUR time with him . You may find that your lives will be compatible. You may find out they are not. In due time. But until that time.... keep it between the 2 of you.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 07/31/19 06:38 AM

Thanks Ginger. My kids donít really interact with him a whole lot. They are very involved with their neighbourhood friends and are quite busy when they are home. I honestly think it would not bother them if he stopped coming around unless they saw that it made me sad. But you are right...if I could start over, I would wait a while longer to introduce them. If this doesnít work out, I will definitely do that with anyone else in the future.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/01/19 02:18 AM

Hello DV

Jack not texting you. Yeah, that would upset me too.

I think Jack has a little difficulty confronting others - like his friend. Your assessment of differences has him with little experience in serious relationship(s). His friend may have pushed for Jack spending time with him not you, and Jack might have to figure out how push back.

There many be lots of different possible reasons as well. At any rate, an open honest discussion of your and his expectations would go along way in letting him know. Guys arenít all that aware smile Lol. And he might just need a few more reminders to get it to stick.

Back to that list. Yes quite some differences in there.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
On the positive side... we have a GREAT time together. He can be really silly and makes me laugh. Sex is great and sometimes I feel like I canít kiss him enough. I am super comfortable with him and happy when he is around.

IDK... Am I just fooling myself or getting carried away because it feels so good to be with someone who is so into me and who is so affectionate with me? I was emotionally starved in my marriage so am I just responding to him in this way because of that?

Perhaps you are fooling yourself, perhaps you are not. Ah those irrational emotions.

The differences are mostly rational ideas. The positives mostly irrational. Why would you expect different? Itís love. It doesnít need to make sense.

He is fun to be around and makes you happy. You are comfortable being around him. There is something about him...

Those are the important qualities. In truth, most other stuff can be taught. Being compatible - canít really teach that.

So are you just responding due to an emotional void from your marriage? Who knows. Does it matter? You are responding. You have feelings. And I think he does too.

For what itís worth, I believe you to be levelheaded and clear in thought and heart. Have some faith and trust in your feelings and thoughts. I think beliefs, deeper ideas and feelings, are forming and you are just settling into them.

Super comfortable and happy. Everything else is everything else.

Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/01/19 05:30 AM

DnJ... You have such a way of getting to the heart of things... no pun intended. You are right. Rational vs irrational. Both have merit. I think I just need time to sort it all out and figure out what I want. In the meantime, I am just going to go with the flow and have faith that what is meant to be will be. Having been through what I have, I know that no matter what, I will be fine one way or the other.

I was laughing today thinking about Jack. On Sunday we were lying in my room and he said we should play 20 questions. So he picked something and I did the questioning thing. At some point, I noticed that he was shaking so I asked him why. He said it was because he was excited that I was going to guess it...reminded me of how a little kid would react in anticipation. It was so funny and goofy it made me laugh out loud. I love that about him. He is just really playful and fun.

I had my sister and BIL over for dinner tonight. It was their 24th wedding anniversary on Monday so I wanted to do something for them. I kid them every year telling them that when they got married, I gave them a year...lol. They bicker like crazy but it works for them. At their core, they love each other a lot and both are fiercely loyal and committed. I invited Jack over as well but he was here for five days last week and only went home on Monday so I didnít expect him to come. I know he had a lot of things he wanted to get done and hadnít planned to stay as long as he did so it wasnít a surprise that he asked for a rain check. Will probably see him on the weekend. smile
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/01/19 02:12 PM

Had an unexpected FaceTime call with SD19 last night. She says she misses me and the kids immensely. Sheís here for one night next week on her way to a camp out with her mom and sisters and then is planning to visit at the end of August. She told me she has not talked to her dad in two months and doesnít want to see him when she is here as she is ďnot readyĒ. She also said she is finding it difficult living in the city with all of us living here. She plans to stick it out until the end of the year but asked if she could come live with me for half a year so she could save up enough money to possibly go to Australia to work for awhile. She has been there before and has connections so it is a viable plan.

I am sad for her and STBXH. Their relationship has been significantly damaged by everything that has happened. Unlike her younger siblings, she is old enough to put two and two together and has realized I wasnít the only person being lied to by him. She has thought about all of her events that he missed because of his fake treatments and is understandably angry and hurt about it. Conflict-avoidant STBXH, of course, has done nothing to repair their relationship except to send the periodic overly cheerful text that makes it appear that he a) hasnít noticed that she is upset with him [he has] or b) that he has noticed but thinks she will just get over it if he continues to ignore the elephant in the room [this is his go-to approach - shows he hasnít changed a bit. In the past, I would have bent over backwards to try to fix this for him and force him to do something but that is no longer my job. OW can have a go at it although she really wonít be much help in that regard as SD19 wants nothing to do with her either. My prediction is that STBXH will just let things go with the hope that she will eventually start talking to him and he wonít have to do anything. That is how it works between him and his dad. However, SD19 is not him. She has much to be angry about and is not just going to let it go without some sort of apology or grand gesture from him. Sadly, I doubt either of those things will ever happen. frown
Posted By: kml

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/01/19 04:29 PM

. She has thought about all of her events that he missed because of his fake treatments

Fake treatments? I don't remember that part of the story - what was that?

As for SD19's relationship with her dad - that's hard. My youngest hasn't spoken to his dad for almost three years (even though we were divorced ten years ago, this is not directly about the divorce). I fear that as it takes on a life of its own it becomes a bigger and bigger deal (oddly, my ex and his siblings have a history of not speaking to their mom, who was a WAW, for years.Still, I can't argue with my son's reasons for why he doesn't think having a relationship with his father is helpful in his life right now.

I was actually the one who got my exH to reconcile with his own mother when our first child was born. It was definitely less weight to have a polite if distant relationship with her, than to carry around this burden of not speaking to her. Over time their relationship improved and became much closer.I am hoping that eventually I can get my youngest to reconcile with his father but right now it's still too painful for him. (And since in their final argument my ex apparently badmouthed me in some vile way - I still haven't asked the details because I don't want to know, but it was bad enough that son's girlfriend at the time felt bound to jump in and defend me - I must admit I haven't been in a super hurry to make that happen).

About a year in exH did email son trying to get him to go to therapy with him - but in the next breath telling him his phone contact was running out and that he wouldn't keep paying the $30 for unemployed son's cell phone! Needless to say that reconciliation didn't happen.

I'm hoping to get youngest son further along in his mental health recovery before he attempts reconciliation, so that he's better able to deal with ex's narcissistic stuff.

But as for SD19 - you might point out to her that a polite distant relationship with her father may weight less in the long run than outright not communicating with him.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/01/19 04:46 PM


I thought it easier just to copy and paste that part of the story...

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
December 2014...he developed Shingles which became somewhat chronic and necessitated a lot of treatment that had him staying away nights in a local hospital. Unbeknownst to me, at some point during that time, the treatment slowed down but he went back to his MLC ways only this time, he was camping out at various places pretending to be at the hospital for treatments almost every night and avoiding me and his ďlifeĒ. Looking back, I recall that he seemed quite depressed but I chalked it up to the Shingles and his painful "treatments".

Fast forward to 2017 with this strange life of being home for short periods of time and gone for long periods of time but all the while working full-time save for one month in 2016 when he took a medical leave. It seems like a long period of time to live like that and honestly, I think there were many times when I questioned things but he would always have an answer that seemed plausible and there was a part of me that was just too tired dealing with everything and really didnít want to know. In 2017, my mom was dying of cancer and I got the idea that we should move closer to my family which was in a much less expensive area to live. I found a job posting within my organization that I felt I would get and approached him with the idea of moving. I kind of expected him to balk at the idea but to my surprise, he was super enthusiastic and within three months, I got the job, he found one too, we sold our house for a ridiculous amount of money, paid off every debt we had and bought a beautiful ocean view dream home for cash in the new community. I thought we were home free as many of our stresses just went away. For the first eight months we were here, he was like a different person. Happy, engaged, present, pain well-managed, future-oriented, and satisfied with his life. We bought a boat (he had always wanted one), spent time fishing and boating together and just basically enjoyed our new reality. We even took our family on a trip to Mexico which is something we hadnít been able to do since our kids were 7 months old... they are almost 11.

Then...without warning... his pain returned in March 2018 and he announced to me that he had to go back to the hospital. And he did this... for awhile... and, like before, when the treatment regimen stopped being every night, he continued to act as if it was still continuing and spent almost every night away from home... but continued to work and come home until around 5 or 6 when he would leave. I know now that he wasnít going to the hospital but was spending alone time on our boat (my key went ďmissingĒ around then so I would have to borrow his if I wanted to go down there) and then in June he sold his beloved car that he had been restoring and told me he was going to use the money to restore a different vehicle. I later found out that he has been using the money to rent a suite for himself where he continued to spend his evenings isolating from the world. All of this eventually came to a head almost a month ago after my suspicious brother-in-law decided to put a tracker on his car and found out where he was going.

TBH...I'm more than a little embarrassed about how naÔve and trusting I was over those years. I am sure his current OW is not his first but he will never tell me. I have accepted there are many things I will never know. What I do know is that I was, for all intent and purposes, a single parent and alone most nights. I was depressed but I did my best to be there for my kids including my SD whose performances and major events I attended...usually without her dad. If he did put in an appearance, he would always leave early because he was in "too much pain" or had to get to the hospital for his "treatment". Throughout that time, I would also have to periodically reassure our children that their dad was not dying as they, of course, would make this assumption based on how often he was gone. He missed everything...birthdays, two Christmases, New Years, anniversaries... You name it, he was not there for it. How I put up with it, I do not know. The best way I can describe it is to say I was like that frog in the pot of water that burns to death because he never notices the temperature gradually increasing until it is too late. I was on autopilot for those years just trying to take care of my kids and support my "ill" husband without allowing myself to have any resentments because, after all, it wasn't his fault [insert eye roll here]. His daughter is old enough to remember all of this and knows he was faking most of it. The twins were young enough, thankfully, that they still think he was sick and I bite my tongue whenever one of them mentions it...for their sake, not his. Needless to say... I am much better off now. smile
Posted By: kml

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/01/19 05:23 PM

Hahahahaha - there is no treatment for shingles that requires an overnight stay in the hospital btw. Ok, so he's a pathological liar to boot.
Let SD19 make up her own mind whether she ever wants to see him again.And how great that she wants to live with you for 6 months!
Posted By: kml

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/01/19 05:23 PM

You might want to read the book The Sociopath Next Door, you might recognize him in there.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/02/19 02:04 PM

KML...I would agree with you about the sociopath diagnosis except my STBXH has a lot of guilt which sociopaths tend not to have. I just think he is a weak and broken person who has been desperately seeking happiness in other people his whole life. He has deep-seated insecurities and lacks an internal sense of self and a solid moral code. When times are tough, he just doesnít have the intestinal fortitude to stick it out and take responsibility for himself. I think our situation got away on him and he was likely relieved when he was finally caught. Since then, he has consistently tried to be a good dad to our twins and has been reasonable and generous in the negotiation of our separation and divorce. Does it make up for the years of gas lighting and lying? No it doesnít. Not sure he could ever do that. But he is trying to move forward as best he can. I am grateful for that and grateful to be free of him. He is not the man I thought he was...not sure he ever could be...and I am at peace with that. As long as he does not hurt our children any more than he already has, we will be fine.

Pathological liar? Yep...he has earned that title for sure. Hopefully he will do better with that in the future but it is definitely a well-established habit of his. Heís so good at it, I think he fools himself much of the time too. I am happy that he is no longer fooling me. smile
Posted By: Yail

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/03/19 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
The best way I can describe it is to say I was like that frog in the pot of water that burns to death because he never notices the temperature gradually increasing until it is too late.

This is EXACTLY how I think many of us end up where we are while putting up with things we never thought we would. Though all of our stories are different, I am also embarrassed by some of the (censored) I put up with with W. I'm a strong, intelligent, independent woman who has a strong sense of self and I let her treat me that way? Treat our R that way? How in the world did I ever let that happen?

The frog analogy is spot on. You can't see the forest for the trees. I think this is one of the major reasons that in house separations don't work and that time and space is critical for not only the WAS - but more importantly the LBS.

Once you had some space you started to immediately thrive DV. When you weed the garden you can't just cut off the top - you've got to get in the dirt and pull out those deep root systems that are choking the life out of each other.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/03/19 10:30 PM

(((Yail))). It is amazing what space and some clear thinking can accomplish. Early on I was too caught up in the emotion of everything to see my marriage and my H clearly... the way others would if they were flys on the wall watching us. I did not want a divorce. It felt like a failure and even more so because I didnít even get a chance to fix it. My H did everything he could to destroy our MR before then. I now know, however, that it was not my failure, it was his. He went against the promises he made. He chose to put himself and his ďfeelingsĒ first...before our family, before everything we had built and accomplished together. He has to live with that. He has to look in the mirror and know, deep down, that he failed... and he failed miserably. I am at peace with that and with him...finally.

Spent a wonderful night with Jack. I made him dinner on my new barbecue and we hung out on the deck watching the boats in the harbour and enjoying the summer weather. When it got dark, we watched a movie and cuddled on the couch. I LOVE how cuddly and affectionate he is. This morning we lazed around a bit before my kids got home. I was supposed to have them last night but STBXH offered to keep them an extra night to give me a night off since I have been working all summer. I was outside in the driveway when their dad dropped them off and we had a friendly exchange and a short discussion about how the kids seem to be taking fewer baths because of the short timeframes spent at our respective houses. We laughed about it and agreed to both do better with reminders. It was nice.

Monday is a statutory holiday here so I have three glorious days off and a short work week. The week after that, I have some friends visiting from Mexico (school friends of my kids and their mom) so am only working three days. Taking the last two weeks in August off. No solid plans to go anywhere but I live in a summer tourist destination so am going to make it a fun staycation for the kids.

Still having periodic urges to break up with Jack. I love being with him and love how I feel when we are together but I am anxious about the relationship when we are not. In my heart of hearts, I do feel like the differences between us will eventually become an issue so in some ways, a break up feels inevitable at some point. Just donít want to go their yet. His EI runs out at the end of the summer and he will have to get a job. It could be anywhere so it may be him in the end who breaks up with me. Time will tell...

(((HUGS))) to all in DB Land. Hope you are all having a beautiful summer weekend. xo
Posted By: bttrfly

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/04/19 01:08 AM

I think it's best to keep things in the day xoxoxo
Posted By: kml

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/04/19 01:14 AM

Don't borrow trouble, enjoy the present.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/04/19 02:42 PM

Good Morning DV

Things sound pretty good. BBQ, watching the boats in the harbour, hanging out in the deck. And a staycation sounds like a really nice plan for you and the kids. Living in a summer tourist destination I suppose does have something you can find to do. Lol.

Has D11 dug the fire pit or got the basketball court all staked out yet?

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
I do feel like the differences between us will eventually become an issue so in some ways, a break up feels inevitable at some point.

Feelings are fleeting.

Feelings are real. Feelings are expressions of our subconscious - desires, fears, hopes, dreams, what you ate last night, and so on. Totally real. And they change!

Thatís why you donít make decisions based solely on feelings.

Iíve asked before - Do you like Jack? You might want to consider bumping up the word ďlikeĒ to something more. Admitting things to yourself.

DV, with the knowledge that you like Jack. What about these feelings. What to do? Let them flit away. Stop consciously feeding them.

Decisions would be best made following our beliefs, those convictions and deep values of oneís self. Are you happy and satisfied with your values around Jack? Let me explain that question a bit.

Take that up one level. Do you want to have a relationship with someone? Short term or long term?

Assuming you do want a relationship, what is it that your subconscious feelings is out of step with? A guess from me. Age difference. Youíve mentioned it a few times; totally understandable by the way.

So Jack is an awesome guy, and the age thing is exerting pressure from within. So alter your beliefs. Age is no big deal. (I assumed age. However, it is whatever it is you come up with.)

Use what you can control, your conscious thoughts to slowly alter your beliefs. Feeling will follow and acceptance of whatever irrational concern you have.

That is the big point. The irrational concern is hidden from you, and comes out as a feeling. Somethingís not quite right. Decide intellectually on your situation, and go from there. The whole uncoupling feelings from situations and actions, just as in letting go of fear.

A gentle push from a caring friend.

Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/05/19 03:05 PM

Thanks everyone.

DnJ... you always have such words of wisdom to impart. Thank you for taking the time to write them out. You always give me lots to think about.

Having a fantastic weekend. Jack arrived on Friday after work and we had a fun night together. Kids came home on Saturday and we had a bit of a lazy day. My sister and her H came over for dinner and I invited STBXHís mom to join us. It was nice and Jack seemed reasonably comfortable with my family so small steps. smile

Yesterday was a great day... interesting too. My kids were having some sort of conflict over video game money. My D11 texted her dad about it because apparently I wasnít fixing it for her. He started texting me telling me that S11 was driving his sister nuts and should he come and get her and take her out for dinner or keep her for the night to give her a break. So I went into D11ís room and she was in tears saying she wanted to go to dadís to get away from her brother. I told her ďnoĒ and that she and her brother need to learn to work things out. I also suggested we go somewhere after dinner to have some fun. She was reluctant at first but then thanked me for listening and said she would like to do something. I was almost finished cooking dinner when she came out of her room and told me she was going downstairs to talk to her brother. By the time I was putting food on their plates, the crisis had been averted and they had worked out a compromise. By the end of the night, they were loving each other again and being so kind and supportive of each other. I so LOVE my kids. They really are great human beings. At the end of the night, I texted STBXH that the kids had worked things out and we had had a great night. I couldnít resist... I also reminded him that we need to teach them that they there isnít anything the two of them canít work out together and that they need to do that instead of running away (i.e. STBXHís preferred method of dealing with problems). No response but I think he probably got the message...lol.

Jack was still here yesterday so we invited him to go out with us (mini golf and bumper boats) and I was half expecting him to decline as he looked a bit reluctant. But...the mini golf place was half way to his house so he said he would take his vehicle and meet us there and then go home afterwards. We ended up having a blast and I think his comfort level around my kids (and theirís around him) increased significantly because of it. The bumper boats were hilarious. I totally forgot that they had soaker guns in them so we all got super wet. No towels so the heated seats in my car came in handy...lol. The kids are going back to their dadís today and I am heading to Jackís hometown to visit my friends at the lake where my sister and her husband are currently. They invited him to join us. I expected him to decline as we were together all weekend and he is uncomfortable with too many people but he surprised me again and said yes. So...this should be another interesting but hopefully fun day.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/06/19 02:22 PM

Quick update... Yesterday was a beautiful, perfect summer day. I felt very blessed to be able to spend it at an amazing lake with good friends. The morning was a bit shaky as I had told Jack the night before that I was trying to get out to the lake by around noon but no later than 12:30. I texted him a few things in the morning...what to bring, what time I would get to town and where we could meet. Still had not heard from him when I left but it is an hour drive so I wasnít too worried. Got to town and texted him that I was there and was going into the grocery store to pick some things up. Finally got a reply at 11:56 that he just had to help his dad move a few things but shouldnít be too long. I texted him a meeting spot and then went there to wait for him and charge my car. Exchanged a few texts with my sister who was itching to get out on the boat and was wanting me to get there. She finally texted me at 12:30 that they were heading out to another friendís place where the boat was and I should meet them there. Still no Jack. Finally at 12:50 I get a text from him saying apologizing that he didnít realize we were waiting for him and that he would be there in 10 minutes. Huh? Donít you read my texts? Anyway...he was there is six minutes and we drove out to the lake. Turns out the only person in a hurry was my sister as we sat around for another half hour or so before we headed out. No one seemed like they even noticed we were late.

The time on the boat was beyond amazing. My friends used to have a ski boat but they sold it and bought one of those floating patio boats with room for about ten people so it was pretty roomy with six of us. I was nervous about how Jack would fit in but I shouldnít have. IMO he fit in better than my XH who always seemed uncomfortable with ďmy peopleĒ. After a couple drinks and some initial awkwardness that always happens when you first meet someone, Jack seemed more at ease than I have seen him yet. He was even joking around with my sister and playing with her puppy (heís allergic) and having random conversations with my BIL. The guy whose boat we were on who is usually quite gruff with people, seemed to like Jack as well and commented ďyouíre in buddyĒ when he found out they had something in common. It really could not have gone better.

After spending about six hours on the lake, we headed back to my friendsí house and spent some more time socializing and eating good food (my two favourite things) and reluctantly headed out at about 9:30 cause I had to work the next day. My friends gave Jack a warm goodbye and told us we were welcome to visit anytime. I took Jack back to where his car was parked and we ended up sitting in my car talking and laughing until I noticed it was 10:20 and I still had an hour drive ahead of me. Jack seemed really reluctant to let me go but agreed I needed to head out and asked me to text him when I got home so he knew I had made it.

I got my Tim Hortonís decaf on my way out of town and spent the drive reflecting on the day and my growing feelings for Jack and my barely existent feelings for XH. So bizarre how much my life has changed in a year. But you know what? I am happier than I was... I truly am. Yes...things could have turned out different with my marriage. My XH could have made different choices...made an effort to get back to the way we used to be...given us a chance. But he chose to reinvent himself and move on with OW to spare himself that self examination it would have required and there was nothing I could do about it. Iím okay with it now. I need someone in my life who is honest and genuine... not just with me but with himself. That is not XH. Whether or not that is Jack remains to be seen but so far, so good...well aside from his texting habits...lol. My friend at the lake has a cell but doesnít turn it on. He and Jack are similar in that regard as much of the time, Jack doesnít even know where his phone is...lol. Anyway...time to shower and get to work. (((HUGS))) to all! xo
Posted By: neffer

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/07/19 05:19 PM


Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/09/19 01:44 PM

Small update... I had lunch with my friend who is a manager in the local school district. I thought we were getting together to chat about our lives but when i sat down at the table, she said she had ulterior motives for asking me to lunch. Apparently the school district is partnering with my Ministry to create some sort of mobile outreach counselling program in the schools. She basically told me she wants me to run it and to make sure I apply for the position when it gets posted. Of course, no guarantees... she is only one person on the hiring committee so I would need to outscore the other applicants. Anyway...at the very least, I was flattered that she thought of me.

Kid-free weekend coming up. The twins go to their dadís this weekend. Jack is coming over tonight and spending the weekend with me. Next week I have some friends from Mexico staying with me for a couple days so Iím only working three days. After that, I am off until the kids return to school in September. I cannot believe how fast the summer is going by. Of course, I say that every year...lol.

Hope everyone has a great weekend!!! xo
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/10/19 02:27 PM

Great week at work. Ended yesterday with a meeting with a mom who has been in crisis with her teenage daughter. I am doing family therapy with both of them together but asked to meet with her on her own yesterday to give her some coaching and my perspective on her parenting (good parent, paying attention to all of the wrong things). I was a bit nervous because I had some hard things I needed to address with her and I wasnít sure how she would take it. IMO...it could not have gone better. She thanked me at the end and told me I am really helping them. Heartwarming for me to hear since they have basically been in crisis for three years and I am the third therapist theyíve seen...the only one willing to work with the two of them together rather than just the daughter. Anyway...it set me up for a great weekend.

Met my sister after work for a pedicure and then went home to find Jack waiting for me. I was going to make us some dinner but he wanted to take me out for dinner instead. We went to a pub that neither of us have been to before and had a good time laughing and talking. Watched a movie when we got back to my place and had some great sex...lol. Exchanged ILUs again and it felt more right last night than it has before. Our relationship just seems to be progressing at a nice pace and I really do love him. I still have no idea if our feelings for each other will be enough to sustain us long term but it is all we need right now. At this point, I just love being around him and look forward to our time together. I feel very blessed to have found him and to have looked past the age difference and given us a chance.

Happy weekend everyone!!! (((HUGS)))
Posted By: DnJ

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/11/19 02:32 PM

Good Morning DV

Good luck with the outreach counselling program director position. It sounds like a wonderful fit for you.

You and Jack also seem to be a wonderful fit to each otherís lives. The last post was much freer and forward looking, if that makes any sense. I believe that is the first time youíve actually typed ďI really do love himĒ. It is also wonderful (wow three ďwonderfulĒs in one post, Iím going to need to get a thesaurus) to see you talking about you and Jack, We, and Us, being blessed and going forward.

Word choice aside, it is the underling feeling that you conveyed. I am very happy for you. And I am glad youíre passed your age hang-up / concern / fear.

Have a wonderful weekend. (Oh four of them)

Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/13/19 04:03 AM

Thanks DnJ. Iím taking the career opportunity with a grain of salt. I have not yet heard about it and even though I know my friend will likely be part of the hiring committee, it is government so it is all about interview scores and has very little to do with who they think might be the best person for the job. I will likely apply when/if I see the posting but Iím not going to get my hopes up too high. I think it would be a nice challenge though.

Jack stayed the whole weekend and left this morning. We went out for breakfast yesterday and had a really good talk. I told him that I think he protects himself from me a little bit...like he expects that I will break up with him at some point. I also talked with him about always being silly and goofy which is fun but made me wonder if he also has a serious side and it would be nice to see that once in awhile. Well...turns out the last relationship he was in, the girl broke up with him for someone she talked about on Facebook as being super fun and full of life. So...Jack is worried that if he is serious, I might do the same thing.

I also asked him if his family knows about me as Iíve not met any of them. He says they all basically know my name, that I live an hour away from him and what I do for a living but not a whole lot more. He says he wants me to meet them when they are getting along better as there is currently some friction there apparently. I donít want to get in the middle of that but I did say to him that the only thing worse than parents annoying you is when they arenít around to do it. He got the point. smile When my mom passed away, I found a folder with a bunch of newspaper clippings with my name on it. The articles were all about parenting. She always had a way of making me feel like I wasnít the best mom but I know she didnít think that. She just worried about me and her grandchildren and she knew she wasnít going to be around for long so it was her way of trying to give me advice from beyond the grave. I appreciate the effort she made. I miss her and my dad every day but am not sad they were not around to see my kidsí dad treat me so terribly. Iím also pretty sure she would disapprove of my current relationship due to the age difference and the other differences between us.

Saw my XH (I think I will call him this even though I donít know for sure that our divorce is final yet) today. I came home to get my migraine medication and he was in my driveway taking some stuff out of the garage. We chatted for a few minutes like a couple of acquaintances. He told me everything he was doing to get all of his stuff out of my house and garage. It is weird...but he still reports things to me when I see him like he needs me to approve or something. Our marriage was like that too. He made me the boss and then resented me for it. Anyway...I was happy to see some things finally start to go as he is way past the deadline he gave himself. Again...seeing him...I was glad that I am still feeling quite detached. Have I completely gotten over it? Iím not sure I ever will TBH. He made a lot of unilateral decisions that changed my life and the lives of our children and it was not what any of us wanted. BUT... I have gotten over him and I think there is a difference between the two.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/15/19 03:40 AM


Had a few moments of sadness today. Hadnít had that in a long time. My XH texted me at around dinner to get the kids to go out on the deck to watch the Snowbirds (Cdn version of the Blue Angels for my Am friends). He texted my S11 that he was out on the boat watching. So the kids and I and his mom watched from the deck and he was out on the boat with OW. If we were still together, we would have all been out in the boat enjoying it as a family. But...thatís never going to happen again...our kids will only get to experience things with one of us and never both of us together. It made me sad...thinking about the things we have lost in all this. I wonder if he ever thinks about that or if he is just oblivious to all of that. My guess is the latter. He threw it all away so clearly it has no real value to him. Hence the sad feelings. Anyway...it was a melancholy few moments... I am back to normal now. Continuing to move forward...:)
Posted By: bttrfly

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/15/19 09:43 AM


I've had the same thoughts and feelings, wondering if exh has thought at all about what he threw away and what it will be like for our son moving forward. I'm glad those feelings surfaced and passed for you xoxoxo
Posted By: neffer

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/16/19 08:16 PM

Őtīs about living the real life girls...you are there and you know that.

Hugs for both of you!

(((DjV))) (((bttrfly)))
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/19/19 04:15 AM

Thanks Bttrfly & Neffer. It feels good to be living the real life. I am happier than Iíve been in a long time. But there are still days when I do miss being a family...when my H was still a part of it and not the ghost he was for the last five years of it. Still...we did love each other once. I am grateful for the experience and for all of the blessings my marriage brought me despite how it ended. At the end of the day, I hope he is too.

Journaling a bit... Day 2 of my 15 days off. Yesterday was great. The kids are at their dadís until Wednesday so Jack is spending some of that time with me. He and I went out to the lake to hang out with my sister, BIL and friends. We didnít get out on the boat until late as it took awhile for the clouds to burn off but we still got a decent amount of time on it so it didnít disappoint. We decided not to stay out there so returned to my house late last night and have had a lazy morning. Jack is napping as Iím typing this.

Starting to think more and more about the end of the summer coming and Jack going back to work. I have no doubt he will find something, just not sure where that will be and if it will result in him living closer to me or further away. I really do have very strong feelings for him... I just feel myself holding back a bit until he is back working and I have a better idea of the viability of our relationship long term. Still not sure exactly what I want from it or conversely, what I am able to give to it and Iím not sure where he is at either. I am so hardwired to want to know this stuff...lol. Really fighting against my programming trying to just stay in the here and now. smile
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/21/19 06:34 PM

Iíve decided Iím not a huge fan of long distance relationships. They feel so all or nothing. Either you are around each other 24/7 or you are not around each other at all. It is hard to stay balanced in a lot of ways the way one would if you were in the same town and seeing each other a few hours at a time. Jack came over Friday night and stayed until Tuesday morning. As usual, we had a great time together but now heís gone back home and communication between us is limited to the odd text about nothing in particular. I find myself thinking about the viability of our relationship long term and whether or not I am just setting myself up to get my heart broken. We are so different and the rational part of my mind is on overdrive when he is not around. When weíre together, I donít think about our differences much at all although nagging doubts are starting to creep in.

Reading about Gingerís sitch with M has heightened my awareness around relationship dynamics and I see myself in her and Jack in M. Jack isnít nearly as rigid about how he spends his time but he is a self-professed ďlonerĒ who seems to not need much of anyone or anything when he is on his own. He swims and writes music and records basically. I am pretty opposite to that. Iíve come to appreciate alone time much more than I ever have but I still prefer the company of others to my own if given a choice 90% of the time. The concept of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole has crossed my mind more than once.... as has the concept of borrowing trouble when, objectively, there isnít any. Iím worried that Iím a lot more needy than I like to think I am and that I have more work to do in that department. Seems like work that is never done...lol.

On a positive note. My kids came back from their dadís yesterday and are with me until Friday. Iíve got some activities planned if the weather cooperates. Today is rainy though so kids are happy to stay indoors and just hang out with friends. Sigh...teenage years are just around the corner...

Anyway....just my musings for the day. I have a nail appointment and then need to spend some quality time with my babies. (((HUGS))) to all. xo
Posted By: kml

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/21/19 07:04 PM

he is a self-professed ďlonerĒ who seems to not need much of anyone or anything when he is on his own. He swims and writes music and records basically. I am pretty opposite to that. Iíve come to appreciate alone time much more than I ever have but I still prefer the company of others to my own if given a choice 90% of the time.

Sounds less like a neediness issue and more like and introvert/extrovert issue. And introvert and an extrovert can get along fine so long as they understand each others needs and the extrovert gets their people needs met elsewhere. Introverts recharge by being alone and extroverts recharge by being with people.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/22/19 06:16 AM

That is definitely a big difference between us for sure. It is hard for us non-loners to understand sometimes but I do get it on an intellectual level and I am learning not to take it personally.

An old roommate of mine texted me tonight. I had seen his profile on Tinder a few months ago and swiped right for a joke. He contacted me the week of my first date with Jack and we chatted for a bit on messenger. He is married but he and his wife are basically roommates and are staying together until the kids leave home and then parting ways. They live in an expensive area so cannot afford to divorce currently. She cheated on him years ago and told him he can do what he wants. That sounds worse to me than being left. Living in limbo for years. Ugh. No thanks.

Anyway...he is coming to town to visit his parents and wants to get together for coffee or a drink. I opted for coffee on Friday afternoon. Jack will probably be over in the evening anyway and I didnít want to meet my friend in the evening anyway. Our conversation on messenger got a bit weird... he started talking about sex out of the blue and how he thinks people make too big of a deal of it, etc... Sounded like he was making an argument for casual sex between friends...lol. I just ignored it and changed the subject. Iíve known him since the tenth grade. He is like a brother to me so there is NO WAY I would ever go down that road with him...lol. Anyway...daytime coffee seemed the safest option...lol. I just have to work in that I have a boyfriend pretty early into the conversation and all will be okay. smile

Heading to Bellingham on Sunday with my sister for a couple of days for another two-night complimentary hotel stay. Looking forward to getting away. We always have a good time. laugh
Posted By: Yail

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/24/19 08:36 PM

Hey DV,

So, reading about your friend - yeah - he's hinting at something casual. Which is cool if both people are interested, and I don't think he realizes your not. You've definitely got to let him know about Jack ASAP.

I think you might not want to ignore this so you two don't have any awkward misunderstandings. I mean, if he's clear about his intent that's cool and no shame to him. But you're not on board, so I don't think a bit of clear communication would hurt here. Especially since you reconnected on Tinder.

Anyway, not a huge thing but wanted to say "hey" and give that little thought. Hope you're well smile

I like your thoughts on long distance relationships, and would be interested if you ruminated on that thought some more. I think you're on to something that is key to what you want in life, and should explore it more.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/25/19 02:54 PM

Thanks Yail. So...I think maybe I may have just gotten my friend on a weird night or something cause when I saw him, things were completely normal. It is amazing how you can not see someone for years and then pick up right where you left off as if not a day had gone by. Completely comfortable and happy to see one another. It was a great visit. We talked about a lot of things. He is a really good guy and it sounds like his W has put him through a lot and continues to. He said she started acting weird around their next door neighbour a couple years ago and there have been some red flags. They have a SSM and she has told him he is welcome to have sex with someone outside the marriage. She wonít even hug him as she associates that with sex. He is the primary breadwinner and even though she could work full time now that their kids are pretty much grown, she doesnít want to. She has rewritten history and told him he was not the love of her life even though they have been together since we were 22 years old. Uh...I was there...she was pretty nuts about him. Truth be told, I never really liked her much. She was very hard to get to know and was a bit of a princess which has continued to this day. My friend says almost everything has been left up to him in the home and she never offers him her help. Case in point, he is working full time and in his off hours, reshingling their home. She went off to Europe with their daughter for the summer...something she ďtoldĒ him she was doing with money she saved up. Huh? He says everything he has earned has gone towards the family so he does not know how she saved this money. I asked him what the plan was for their marriage and he said that, as far as he knows, they will be getting divorced once the kids move out. He is not doing the Tinder thing currently as he just signed up for that one night when he was really frustrated with her. Poor guy. He really would make someone a great partner and I am sad that his W hasnít made any effort to work on their relationship.

Jack is over currently. He played me some Bach on his guitar last night. He is so d@mn good at that guitar. I am sad he hasnít turned it into a career. I asked him how much time he put towards practice and he told me when he was a teenager, he would often stay home from school all day just to play and that it wasnít unusual for him to spend 10 hours a day playing. I wish I had that kind of passion for something. It is inspiring. No wonder he hasnít killed himself to get off of EI. That day is coming though. Hoping whatever work he finds does not take him too far away. I told him last night that if things did not work out between us romantically, that we would make an effort to always be friends as I wouldnít want him to completely disappear from my life. He looked at me with a big goofy grin and called me a sweetheart and thanked me. Pretty sure there arenít any exes in his life that he still talks to so this seems to be a new experience for him. We also talked a bit about the trip to Croatia I am planning with my sister and a friend and their husbands next September. He is hoping he can be my plus one but we didnít make any promises about it as the stars would definitely need to align for that to happen. Heís never been to Europe and the last time he was on a plane, he was a teenager so it would be fun to experience that with him.

Anyway...will journal more later. Have to finish getting ready for my trip across the line with my sister. Gonna see if we can break even at the casino again...lol. (((HUGS))) to all out there is DB land. xo
Posted By: kml

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/25/19 03:11 PM

He is so d@mn good at that guitar. I am sad he hasnít turned it into a career.

Ummm.....no. Hobby yes, career no. Nobody makes money in music these days. I know a lot of musicians. The only ones who are making a living are touring 300 days a year. The happiest musicians I know have good day jobs and play in a band for fun, not money.
Posted By: AndrewP

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/25/19 06:43 PM

Deja - I've not been following along too closely but I'm a bit worried about you and your friend Jack. I see you making excuses for his lack of employment, lack of ambition. Over the last few years I've read a "lot" of stories and one common one I see is where solid stable women end up with some rather shiftless men who they have to support while they "find themselves", "find an employer who appreciates their special talents" yadda yadda. It often doesn't turn out well.

Are you sure that this is a path you want to take? Of course I could be completely wrong too.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 08/26/19 02:43 AM

Thanks for your concerns everyone. No need to worry. The one thing I am sure about Jack is that he is the kind of guy who would be extremely uncomfortable being supported by a partner. I can tell based on a few things he has said that the differences between us in that regard is probably his biggest concerns. He also insists that he pays for half of the meals that we go out for. This is the first time he has spent any significant amount of time unemployed and I know that he will find work soon and it could spell the end of us if it ends up being somewhere else in the province or in another part of the country. Not sure either of us would want to do the long, long distance thing. An hour away is far enough. So things could look really different a couple of months from now. At the very least, we will remain friends though. I am glad we have had the time together that we have had regardless of how it turns out.

Having said all that, I would like to point out, that if I was the guy with the great job, money in the bank and owned a house and he was the woman who was looking for a job and didnít own a lot, people would not be so concerned about me being taken advantage of given how many women there are out there who are being supported by men and who could easily work and pay their own way. Thatís not a judgment... just a fact. Honestly, I do not need a guy to pay my bills or provide me with financial security. I have that figured out. If I was looking for that, however, Jack would definitely not be my guy...lol. Anyway... food for though. smile
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/02/19 03:01 PM


Last day before Iím back to work. The two weeks off went fast and I feel like I didnít do a whole lot but thatís okay... I have my trips to look forward to next year. Ten days in Vegas in March for the BCA World 8-ball Championships and then three weeks in Croatia in September with my sister, BIL and another couple that I adore. They are both celebrating their 25th wedding anniversaries. I may or may not be going solo. Not too worried about it if I do cause Iíve been taking vacations with my sister and her hubby for years. If it wasnít for them, I wouldnít have gone anywhere for the last eight years so Iím used to being the fifth wheel. Anyway...my BIL stopped by the other day because he is planning a surprise during our holiday and wanted to make sure I am okay with it since it will be an extra expense and Iíll have to pay for myself if I want to take part. Anyway...we will either be going on a week long cruise or chartering a 50 foot sail boat with a crew for a week and cruising the coast. Both sound great to me. Not sure which I prefer. It may come down to the price. He is away on a golfing trip right now so weíre going to talk more about it when he gets back. Not sure about keeping it a surprise though as my sister and our friend have been talking about getting together soon to plan the trip which, knowing my sister, means figuring out where we will be day to day so not much room for a surprise week-long cruise.

Getting kicked out of my house on the 20th so the restoration people can refinish my floors. I was going to stay with my sister for the 17 days I will be out and have the kids stay with their dad but I reconsidered as the insurance company told me they would pay for a short term rental. So...I looked around at what was available and decided to rent an ocean-front condo at a resort that is about a 30 minute drive from my home and a 25 minute drive from my work. Funny how the 25-minute drive gave me pause considering I commuted 40 minutes each way to work for 12 years. I am so spoiled now with my 5-minute drive. Anyway... I will be there for two work weeks and three weekends altogether. It is right on the ocean and has an outdoor heated pool that is open until the end of September and a seaside hot tub that is open year round. The condo I am renting was recently renovated so it is beautiful. Canít wait... it is going to feel like a mini-vacation minus the having to go to work part...lol. There is also a chance that Jack will be working in the area for the next couple of months so he says he will stay there with me if he is.

Went to Costco yesterday with my kids. We were part way though the shop when my daughter suddenly exclaimed ďthereís dadĒ and asked if she could go say hi. They were part way down the freezer aisle and obscured by some boxes so I couldnít really see them but I told her okay and off she ran. I saw her giving OW a hug out of the corner of my eye which bothered me on one level (things are going just as he planned - insert vomiting emoji here) but was good on another as she clearly has a positive relationship with my kids so I know she treats them well. I kept my distance and thankfully we didnít run into them again. I did see my XH on Friday at my daughterís TKD belt test. He got there a bit late and there were a ton of kids testing so very little room for the parents to watch. He was stuck outside looking through the window and I was inside close to the action so I took a few videos and pictures and sent them to him. We also shared a few musings during the test via text like we would have in the past. Afterwards our D11 and I met him outside and we parted ways shortly after exchanging pleasant goodbyes. And then...inevitably...I was a bit mad at myself for being so friendly. He doesnít deserve it. But...I guess my kids do so I will continue to take the high road even though a part of me wants him and his OW to suffer in some way. He always seems to get a free pass no matter what he does.

Jack was here again on the weekend. Always fun to see him and we spent some time with my kids and with my sister on Saturday night so they are getting to know him better. Today my sister and I are heading to the lake and my kids are going to their dadís. The lake is in Jackís town so he is going to meet us out there. It is supposed to be 27 degrees (not sure what that is in Fahrenheit) there today so should be a beautiful last day of my vacation. (((HUGS))) to all!!
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/07/19 03:24 PM

Yesterday was a busy work day. Ugh... all teenage boys.

First up...a 16 year-old anxious, somewhat violent (loves the adrenaline hit of fighting with others) boy who tells me he is high ď24/7Ē and doesnít care if he lives or dies. His mom called me in tears the other day. Sheís lost two family members to drug overdoses and is super worried her sonís cavalier attitude is going to turn into an accidental death and is pinning her hopes on me being the one to motivate him to turn his life around. So far, he has agreed to come back for our third appointment but remains ambivalent about doing anything to help himself.

Second...16 year-old anxious boy who has a daily weed habit and is comfortable avoiding absolutely everything that brings up an anxious feeling...school, job, life... not attending school either but at least is spending a couple hours a day doing online courses. His mom called me too. Worried about his future. Pinning all her hopes on me of course.

Third...16 year-old socially anxious boy who is graduating this year and hoping to go to university if he manages to keep up with his homework and not get overwhelmed. Heís actually doing pretty well so I told him Iím only going to see him every other week. Hopefully his anxious dad can handle it.

Fourth...17 year-old boy who I think is trying to convince me he has autism as he loves to talk to me in a robotic manner and Iíve heard he isnít like that with peers. He loves to answer a question with a question. He emailed me on Wednesday to tell me that he feels like hurting someone (his mom) so wanted an appointment so I could counsel him out of it. When I see him... that was then, this is now. Still wanting to be in his room all day. Not in school, planning to get a job but never actually taking the steps to get one, pot smoker, etc... Mom is frustrating because she wants him to DO something. With three minutes left to go in our session, asked me ďWhy is suicide taboo?Ē after telling me not to ďfreak outĒ. Uh yeah... I donít freak out. I swear he comes in just to frustrate me...lol.

Teenage boys are just not great therapy candidates but... I love them all...lol. What I donít love is the pressure from parents to ďfixĒ their kids in five meetings or less. It is a tall order and a lot of responsibility. Canít believe Iím going into my 22nd year and I havenít lost my mind yet...lol.

On a another note...I am continuing to do family therapy with the family no one else wanted to work with and we are making great strides. It is actually starting to get fun!!! laugh

My personal life is status quo. Had the kids on Wednesday and Thursday. Came home yesterday to find their dadís truck in the driveway. Usually he is super careful about being gone by the time I get home from work but not yesterday. I was glad. It gave me a chance to hug my kids goodbye. My daughter was excited to go because apparently he and OW got a Boston Terrier puppy. Must be OWís thing cause XH loves big dogs...Newfoundlands are his dream dogs. A BT would be way down his list of preferred dogs. Way down mine too. I think they are kinda ugly - no offence to any BT lovers out there.

Jack is over this weekend. He came over last night at around 7:00. Iím always happy to see him. We laugh a lot and just like being in each otherís company. More and more, however, I am wondering if that is enough. Itís not the age difference. I am pretty much over that...for the most part. Itís more the other differences and where we are at in life. My life is pretty set....kids, career, home ownership, etc... His life is the opposite of that. I suppose that makes things easier on one hand as he is free to do what he wants and live wherever he wants. He could easily fit into my life. But it would be him fitting into MY life. That might be fine for him in the short term but what about a year or five years from now? If I really invest in this relationship, am I just going to get left again? And maybe that is the age thing coming into play? He is still young enough to meet someone and have a family whereas I am past all of that. Itís not something he wants right now but he could easily change his mind later on down the road and then what? Serial dating is not for me. Iím someone who just wants to be in a committed relationship and grow old with somebody. Sigh...this life stuff is so confusing...
Posted By: DnJ

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/08/19 02:44 PM

Good Morning DV

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Sigh...this life stuff is so confusing...


You do make a lot of good points. They are more than just background noise. And I havenít seen too many chips being put in the pot, not saying you need to go all in. smile One can only play the cards they have been dealt, and all hands have risk. If one looks at things as win/lose, perhaps you need to start to see win/win.

You are speculating on what Jack might do later on in the future, the meet someone and have a family scenario. Ok, a validate concern. However, concern over a future possible event is.... well Iím sure youíve read enough of my posts to know.

So do you fear his actions or yourís?

You spoke about investing in the relationship and wondering about five years from now. You say it is him fitting into your life.

DV, you are already investing into this relationship - thinking five years out shows the seriousness of it. And for what itís worth you are also fitting into his life and lifestyle. Each of you appear to be fitting well together.

So, what to do about your concerns? Talk to him. You cannot read his mind, so ask him. See where he is at.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Itís not something he want right now but he could easily change his mind later on down the road and then what?

Things that follow ďbutĒ usually are justifying something.

Yes he could change his mind, just like anyone can. But, easily?

As an empathic guess from me - you are letting your fear lead you. Look at this from that intellectual car. Does Jack demonstrate such behaviour that he would be at ease discarding you?

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Iím someone who just wants to be in a committed relationship and grow old with somebody.

So am I. Always have been.

I wouldnít be surprised if Jack feels, and believes the same. That value is not age related. Iíve believed right down to my core, in wanting (not needing) to grow old with someone, ever since I was in my early twenties.

There is a time when one realizes the chips, the pot, the hand - isnít important - isnít what is actually at ďplayĒ. The game isnít poker, doesnít need win/lose stresses and worry. Itís much bigger and better. Youíre already all in. We all are. The win/win comes from how you play what youíve been dealt.

DV, you are doing great and have a wonderful life. Hope your day is a bright one.

Posted By: Ginger1

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/08/19 03:21 PM

This stuff is so confusing, I couldnít agree more.

I also hate dating, and I just want a committed relationship. But not just with anyone.

Iíll say this.

I dated a younger guy. 3 months, not long, but he broke up with me because he did want kids and that life where you build from scratch. He had found a girl while dating me, and they have been together, ever since 2.5 years now ( I know all this because Iím friends with his sister in IG) and this was right for him. No hard feelings. I could not give him what he wanted. Your sitch with jack is a little different. Heís a little older, he isnít desiring up front his family from scratch. He seems pretty happy with the way things are.

Now, I dated M, I believed he was committed, we both were raising kids and he preached long term to me right up until he dumped me. There was no guarantee, clearly. We were blending families speaking of the future, but Poof, he was gone.

So really, you just never know. There are situations where it seems like it should be working perfectly. M and I I thought loved each other, our kids loved each other, we loved each otherís kids and they loved us. Perfect recipe, right? Not so much.

There are no situations that guarantee commitment . If you are happy, then donít borrow trouble from the future.
I understand if his lack of job and motivation and how he fits perfectly into your life might Change YOUR attraction levels. I get that. You are a highly successful woman with a family. Is it you maybe questioning what YOUR attraction might be on the future? I by no means am putting jack down. He sounds like a wonderful attentive boyfriend. He chooses you.

Just some things to think about. But you know the future just cannot be predicted. If you are happy now and enjoying what you have, then go with it. Who knows what the future will bring
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/08/19 11:42 PM

Wow you guys... you really have such amazing insights!!!

DnJ... You are so right about the being driven by fear part... And your question about fearing my actions or his... That is a really difficult one to answer as I think perhaps it is a bit of both. Jackís relationship history would suggest that he is not one who invests in relationships...not easily at least. Weíve been seeing each other for five months and we are already past his ďaverageĒ. He does not say much to me about how he feels...about anything. He tells me a lot about what he thinks but feelings do not appear to something he spends a lot of time reflecting on. I think there is some fear there and a person who struggles with feelings of inadequacy that stem from his relationship with his dad and feeling like he has disappointed him.

Does Jack demonstrate behaviour that suggests he would be at ease discarding me? No...he definitely does not. We spend every weekend together and is very affectionate and attentive. I never get the sense when we are out that he is checking out other women or anything like that. The one time we almost broke up (because of my frustration with his texting habits), he was upset by it and when he showed up at my house and gave me a hug, I asked him how he was and he said ďbetter now that I am holding you.Ē He seemed a lot more distressed than I ever would have guessed he would be.

Ginger... Another person on here with amazing insights and advice. You are so right. We really canít predict or control what happens in the future and someone could do and say everything right and still not be there in the end. And then someone like Jack, who barely says anything, may just be around for the long haul. Words are wonderful...they are great at easing our insecurities and helping us to feel safe but...at the end of the day...they donít mean anything if someoneís actions donít match. Five months into my R with XH, we were already living together and I was the love of his life and his soul mate... until I wasnít. There are no guarantees in life.

Re: Jackís motivation and lack of a job. He has a lot of motivation and passion for his music and I admire that greatly. I think he will be back working within the next week or two as he has had a number of calls and is sorting all of that out this week. Heís worked his whole life with the exception of the last five months so Iím not worried that he will be permanently unemployed or that it will affect my level of attraction to him. I just know that, on paper, we donít look like a good match and that does concern me sometimes. However, XH and I were a great match on paper and that didnít exactly work out. You just never know... Jack and I talked about our age difference a bit last night. We both agreed that it doesnít mean a whole lot to either of us. He says he thinks of me as 40 as I look and act as if I am. Of course, Iím not 40, Iím 51 and at some point, I will look my age and TBH, I worry that he will stop looking at me the way he does now.

So... last night was a good night. My sister and BIL came over for a BBQ as well as my friend and her husband. We are all planning to go to Croatia for three weeks next year - Jack included if we are still together. We had a great dinner and then spent some time checking out accommodations and loosely planning what places we would like to visit. It is hard to plan a trip with someone who youíve only been dating for five months when the trip is a year away but he does want to go so we are planning it as if he is coming...final decision wonít need to be made until the Spring when we buy our plane tickets. I told him after that, we have to either not break up until after we get back or we go as friends with benefits...lol. Anyway...my sister and our friends know that my BIL is planning a surprise (he had to tell them so we wouldnít book rooms for the days he has planned) but they donít know the details. I am beyond excited. I think we are going to charter a 50-foot catamaran for a week and just cruise around the islands. I have always wanted to spend some time on a catamaran and the one I am hoping we are going to book is a BEAUTY!!! Jack has never really been anywhere so I am even more excited that he might be with us. I am hoping it will infect him with the travel bug as certainly that is something I want to do a lot of in the future.

Anyway...thanks, as always, for being the voice of reason and reassuring me that I am on the right track and donít need to make any life altering decisions at the moment. I really am happy when Iím not questioning everything so as Ginger recommended, Iím not going to borrow trouble. My experiences in the last year have taught me that no matter how hard you try, you cannot predict or control the future...especially when other people are a part of it. Itís funny how we still try in the face of our insecurities, isnít it? Glad I have all of you to stop me from going too far down that road. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: JujuB

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/09/19 02:23 PM

I like your post Dejavu!

We look for formulas and patterns for a lasting relationship. We look for recipes - (wait 3 months fo an I love you, 6 months for kid introductions, 2 years for moving in- ) we look at red flags. No one wants to get hurt. And none of us want to feel out of control.

But none of it is a guarantee. I followed a very conservative formula with my ex husband and my life was ruined for it. I can follow an opposite formula and it could go great or also ruin me.

With love, we have no idea what will be lasting and what wonít. And sometimes we can look back in hindsite and see warning signs, but other people with successful and lasting relationships might have those same warning signs. So who knows! My parents have been married for over 40 years. My mom told me on their first date my dad asked her what she thought their kids would look like. She thought it was really weird to say that and we would have definitely told her it was a red flag. Normal guys should not say things like that. But hey - they have a successful marriage.

I donít know if we can control. Only perhaps work on being a good partner.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/09/19 10:07 PM

Thank you Juju. You are so right. I donít think Iím following any recipe at the moment...probably did the kid intros too soon although my kids are at an age where they arenít too concerned with what I am doing other than that they want to see me happy. They have a good relationship with their dad as well so are in no danger of getting overly attached to my boyfriend and being upset when/if we break up. He is mostly over when they are at their dadís anyway so it would take them awhile to even notice that he wasnít around. And if they did, Iím pretty sure my emotional well-being would be their only real concern. They like Jack well enough but they are not attached to him.

Love the example of your parents. Yes...someone talking about kids on the first date would definitely be a red flag for most of us...lol. Glad she gave him a chance. laugh

Jack has a job interview tomorrow in his home town and the employer that was talking about sending him to my town for a couple of months still arenít ready to hire...they just tell him they will keep him posted. Canít pay your bills on that. So he is a bit concerned that he will get hired by this new place, work there a couple weeks and then called by the other place which is his preferable place to work. I suppose he could always quit the new place to work at the other but it doesnít look good to future employers that you would take a job and then quit two weeks later. I suppose he could always leave it off of his resume if he wanted. Anyway...it seems like he will be working soon enough and this could change things for us a bit. Just not sure how yet.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/12/19 04:22 PM

Update... so... Jack's job interview ended up getting cancelled because they hired someone else. Don't think he was too disappointed but he may feel differently in two weeks if he hasn't found a job yet. Been a bit irritated again with his texting although he has been better since the first time I got upset with him. On Tuesday night, we were having a conversation and he mentioned he was chatting with a bass player so I asked him if he was local. That was at 10:22 p.m. No response... until 5:30 p.m. the following day... "Hi. Yes...local." Really? Anyway, I was getting my nails done so I just ignored it. It was a statement so didn't really require a response. Plus I kind of wanted to give him a taste of his own medicine. Two hours later... "How's ur day?" LOL...that's usually the text he gets from me. I left that for about 15 minutes but I knew that if I left it any longer than that, he would know I was doing it on purpose as he knows that my phone is usually pretty close to me and that I get notifications on my Fitbit. So I texted him a brief synopsis and asked him about his day. And...he actually responded with a couple of sentences instead of one word!!! Maybe I'm onto something here...lol.

I've been thinking a lot about my need to be in touch every day and truth be told, we spend so much time together when he is with me (usually 48 to 72 hours straight) that we don't have much to talk about when we are apart unless something out of the ordinary happens. On Tuesday, he did initiate a conversation when he texted me to tell me he had lost his wallet or it had been stolen when he was at the pool. So...maybe this is a "me" problem and not a "we" problem?

Some exciting news... we (sister, BIL, our friends (married couple) and Jack (if we are still together) decided on dates for our trip to Croatia next year... September 5th to 26th. Not high tourist season but still summer weather. One benefit of my divorcing my teacher XH is that I no longer have to travel during peak tourist season so travel is a lot cheaper. Also...my BIL and I booked the private yacht tour for the 12th to the 19th. I cannot wait!!! We'll have exclusive use of a 42-foot catamaran for a week of sailing and island hopping. And it is cheaper than if we had just booked a one-week cruise on a mini cruise ship. All in... about $8,000 Canadian which includes the skipper, fuel, taxes, etc... basically everything but food, drink and tip. We have to supply food for breakfast and lunches and then we'll probably eat dinners at restaurants on the islands we visit. Now I just have to keep the secret from my twin for a year. That is going to be so tough because she is aware that we are doing something and will be tossing out her theories and watching my face. I'm doomed...lol.

My sister and I are also going to the World 8 Ball Championships in Vegas in March after a three-year absence from the tournament. I like our team and our chances to do well if we are all playing to our abilities. I finally have my own table and it is the exact ones we play on in Vegas so team practices at my place will be starting soon.

So that's it for my update. I'm still doing pretty well. Don't think about my XH very often except for on occasion when I think about how easily I let him off the hook and I start thinking about the unfairness of it all. But...I redirect my thoughts pretty quickly and remind myself of all of the blessings that have come out of our divorce and that I have been consciously choosing better not bitter throughout this process even though he does not deserve it. But...as I have said before...my kids do and I do. No need to waste any more mental energy on my XH than I already have. It does me no good.

Anyway...hope all is well out there in DB Land. Sending you all lots of love and (((HUGS))). smile
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/18/19 12:12 AM

Took a sick day today. I noticed my eye feeling a bit sore in one spot on Saturday and now I have a bonnified infection of some sort. My sister has had the exact same thing a couple of times lately so I know that it is going to take a week or two to go away. I look like someone punched me in the eye and it is pretty uncomfortable so I decided to stay home to treat it with hot compresses. Kids are at their dadís and my XMIL is on the mainland so it is just me and the dog in the house. Iíve been basically chilling all day and binge watched a great Netflix mini series called Unbelievable. Kind of describes my life...lol.

Havenít heard much from Jack today...just a couple of texts that he sent in response to a text I sent him yesterday. He seems to be slipping back into his old texting habits. I know he is not in the best of moods this week as he had expected to be working by now. I think the financial differences between us are starting to bother him and Iím not sure what to do about it as I canít really help it. I do tend to pay for more things when we are together but thatís because I can and if the shoe was on the other foot, I think he would do the same. Honestly, I think it comes down to our genders. Men, in general, like to have the upper hand when it comes to money, IMO. Anyway...I have enough on my plate without having to worry about fragile egos so Iím just doing my own thing and letting him do his. Iíll see him on the weekend as per usual. smile

Probably going to spend the evening getting some of my things packed up. Leaving my home on Friday after work to stay in a condo/resort for a couple of weeks while my floors get refinished. Looking forward to being there but not to the packing part of it. Trying to determine what food to bring is going to be the toughest part. Iíll be cleaning out the perishables from my fridge on Thursday. Not my favourite chore, that is for sure.

Hey....random question for the ladies out there. Iíve started having hot flashes in the past couple of weeks. My sister has been having them for years (the gift of cancer treatment in her late 30s) and Iím not sure I believed her that they were as annoying as they are. Holy heck!!! So uncomfortable!!! Anyway...for those of you who have been through menopause or are going through it, is there anything I can do to minimize the symptoms...especially these sudden temperature changes? KML? Any doctorly advice? Iíd appreciate any advice. (((HUGS))) to all!!
Posted By: Yail

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/19/19 01:40 AM

DV - I'm probably the LAST person to give hot flash advice, since I'm not quite there yet. But I do get mini-heatwaves depending on where my hormones are, and I can tell anyone exactly which day(s) I will wake up in a sweat in the middle of the night.

For me, a big help is my FEET. At least at night. If your feet are hot, your body is hot. I have a routine of spritzing lavender spray on the soles of my feet before going to bed, and the cool spray really helps me calm down so I don't feel quite so HOT before getting in to bed. Also, the aromatherapy benefits being on my feet (and not just under my nose) are subtle but super helpful.

I know it's not going to solve anything major, but I just wanted to throw it out there as a tiny I-hope-this-helps. Also it's natural, so won't hurt anything. Keep a spray bottle by your bed, and if you're woken up in the middle of the night maybe spritz your feet? If nothing else, your room will smell lovely. Your linens will too.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/19/19 05:25 AM

Thanks Yail. I love that idea!!! And I do love the smell of lavender.

Mini update: Today was unexpectedly tough. I found out while perusing Facebook at lunch that the wife of a good friend of mind died of cancer about six weeks ago. I hadnít seen them since we moved two years ago but I did know about the cancer diagnosis. I just thought that no news was good news and that his wife was such a positive, upbeat wonderful person that she would just kick cancerís a$$. But apparently that did not happen and I guess bad things really do happen to good people. She was only in her mid-fifties!!! Really put things into perspective for me. My divorce pales in comparison honestly. Life is too short and too precious to waste time on mourning the loss of someone who treated me so poorly for all those years.

A more positive update... Jack got a job!!!! He starts tomorrow and he is working in the town that is pretty much halfway between our homes. So if he stays at my place or at home, he will be the same amount of driving time away. It will be interesting to see if this changes things for us.

Spending the next two and a half weeks in an oceanfront condo while my floors are being refinished. Hoping it is going to be like a mini vacay...minus the going to work part, of course. smile

(((HUGS))) to all!!!
Posted By: bttrfly

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/19/19 09:19 AM

{{{DV}}} sorry for your loss. Life is most def too short to focus on the hurts...I don't know about anyone else, but I'm ready to let the good times roll.

Glad to read about Jack's good news! xoxoxo
Posted By: Ginger1

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/19/19 10:16 AM

Yay for jack and a 2.5 week stay on an ocean front condo!
Posted By: DnJ

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/23/19 03:37 AM

Hello DV

That is sad news about your friendís wife. (((DV)))

Good news about Jackís employment. Half way between your houses - that is interesting.

Is the job a permanent one or term?

Enjoy the oceanfront. Sounds like it could very well be a mini vacation.

Posted By: Dawn70

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/24/19 04:42 PM

So sorry about your friend's wife. Sad news.

Congratulations to Jack on his new job.

Enjoy your oceanfront property!
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/28/19 04:48 AM

Hi All.

Thought it was time to check in. This has been a tough week for me at work. One of ďmy kidsĒ (clients) made a serious suicide attempt on Sunday. I didnít find out about it until Wednesday as I was off on Monday and home with a sick kid on Tuesday. My boss dealt with the immediate fallout of it all and I was at a community meeting for most of the day on Wednesday but stopped in at the hospital at the end of the day to visit with her. She was in a mood and angry that we were not letting her die and accusing her family members and myself of being selfish for ďmakingĒ her stick around. It was very hard to validate her perspective but I think I did a pretty good job. At the end of our visit, she was a bit better but I think is going to have to remain in hospital for awhile as she will not contract for safety. Iím secretly quite glad about that. Spent some time talking with her mom today and will see both of them again next week. I have spent A LOT of time working with them so this was a disheartening setback. I still have a lot of hope that we can rebound though as the last time I saw them before this happened, both of them were saying things were getting better. I hope we can get back there... Iíve lost one client to suicide in 21 years, I do not want to lose a second.

Wednesday was also my kidsí open house at the school. XH had to work a bit later than usual so I took them and he met us there. The four of us visited their classrooms together. The last time he and I were at the school together was last Christmas and I was close to tears the whole time and trying to resist the urge to punch him in the face. This time was much better. It still felt awkward but mostly I was focused on my kids. We signed up to go to parent-teacher interviews as well and I offered to send him a reminder text closer to the date. He thanked me as we both knew there was a good chance he would forget. Some things never change...lol. Anyway, I think it was good for our kids to see us there together and getting along.

Jackís job was short lived. He decided after one day that it wasnít going to work. He said it wasnít what he expected and the guy that he was working with was a complete jerk. I guess he doesnít feel financially strained enough yet to work just anywhere. Working in the private sector is much different than what I am used to so I have no judgment about it. Iím very lucky to have the kind of job security and benefits that I do and to work in an environment that is incredibly supportive and respectful of me as a person. That has not been Jackís experience apparently.

The condo Iím staying in really is peaceful and beautiful. Iím used to an ocean view but here I am right on the water which is just that much better. The weather has been decent. My kids are with me this weekend and my daughter and her bestie are looking forward to swimming in the pool tomorrow and doing some beach combing. Iím having a nice quiet evening in my room while they have the rest of the house. Normally Jack would be here with me but the weather was really bad for driving tonight and he said he is quite tired so decided to drive down tomorrow. Iím not upset about it. My sister and my friend were here last night so Iím a bit tired too. Iím more than happy just to veg in my sweats and enjoy the peace and quiet.

Anyway...thatís it for my update. Hope all is well out there is DB Land and that you all have a wonderful weekend. XO
Posted By: DnJ

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 09/29/19 05:40 PM

Hello DV

What a stressful time. Dealing with the aftermath of the incident is going be some work. I am glad she/client didnít end in tragedy.

It is nice to read how you and XH are behaving regarding parent(s)-teacher interviews. Singularly or together, it is good for the kids to see and know youíre getting along.

I did laugh at Jackís one day of work. Yep, I guess he doesnít feel too much financial strain.

I also chuckled at the memory of last year and you wanting to punch XH in the face. Nice when that is let go, isnít it.

Enjoy the ocean view. Itís been raining here, a lot. It keeps raining, and soon Iíll have an ocean view in this prairie landscape. smile

Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 10/02/19 04:52 AM

Thanks so much for checking in and your continuing interest in my sitch DnJ. I hope the rain has stopped where you are. I just came in from sitting outside for a bit. It is a beautiful calm evening and it was very therapeutic listening to the water lap at the shore. As is always the case, with so much quiet and peace comes self-reflection time. Kids are at their dadís so it is just me, myself and I. Time seems to go much slower out here than at home. Things have been crazy busy at work so itís kinda nice that it feels like I am getting a longer break in between work days.

Havenít heard much from Jack since he left yesterday morning. A few texts last night when i was at pool but nothing since. I have pretty much stopped sending him random texts during the week as it is a bit of an exercise in frustration most of the time. I feel like my R with him has been a bit of a learning experience although Iím not sure yet what Iíve learned...lol. I really donít know too many people like him, TBH. When I am with him, he seems fully with me. He is really affectionate and fun and has a great sense of humour. At night when we are watching tv, he always has to be touching me in some way and itís the same when we are sleeping. He is the opposite of ďneedyĒ but he seems physically needy sometimes.

When we are not together, however, it seems like I am ďout of sight, out of mindĒ. If I donít text him, I will not hear from him for at least a day, usually closer to two and sometimes three days. When I finally do hear from him, he texts ďHi...Ē and then waits for me to respond. A couple of weeks ago, I texted him that I had stayed home from work because I had an eye infection. Two days later, he texts me, ďHowís your eye?Ē I responded with ďI texted you about my eye two days ago. Do you actually even care how it is?Ē An hour later he texts, ďyesĒ. Thatís it. No explanation of any kind or acknowledgement that my response was a bit testy. Itís like he didnít even notice. TBH, I actually laughed when I read it. It is so him.

So Iíve been wrestling with myself lately. During the week, when Iím by myself in the evenings, I recall how often I was alone when I was married and this feels too familiar. Inevitably, this leads to me thinking about breaking up with him. I havenít decided I am actually going to do it but I keep entertaining the idea and imagining it in my mind...itís like Iím trying to get myself used to the idea. On the weekend when I see him however, I donít think about it at all. I like his company and I am not ready to give it up. I am also quite certain that if we broke up, I would never hear from him again and I would miss him a lot. I hate missing people so Iím feeling a bit stuck at the moment and a little bit irritated with myself.
Posted By: ballast

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 10/02/19 12:22 PM

DV6...I haven't been on here in a while now...BUT when I read your last post:

Have you talked with Jack about how you feel when you are not together AND what you want instead? If you have, what has been his response? If not, why don't you talk with him about it when you two are together?

Perhaps it's just needed for you two to set expectations and find some understanding for when the two of you aren't together. Also I'd be careful from linking your current feelings of being alone when Jack is not around to your marriage experience. I know from my own experience it's easy to try and create parallels between the two, think OMG this is the same thing over again, run, run...Have to remain mindful of treating this R as it's own independent experience.

All the best!

Posted By: JujuB

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 10/02/19 12:32 PM

Hi deja

Your recent texts about Jack are a bit concerning. If your just looking for a hook up and nothing serious, I get it. But some of the issues that stand out to me.

1. He doesnít text. Thatís not healthy or normal from a guy that really likes you and wants a relationship with you.
2. Heís unemployed chronically and by choice. Thatís a huge red flag and you deserve better.
3. He hasnít introduced you to friends or family. That shows he doesnít take you seriously.
4. Heís much younger. I get the appeal. But a lot of these younger guys date older woman for the physical connection and are embarrassed to really commit to them. (That being said my brother married a woman much older then him )
5. People close to you donít like him.

It sounds like you are spackling a bit. I recognize it because I did that a lot. Like ďitís ok that he cancelled plans cause I was tired anywayĒ. No itís not ok. Thatís not ok and reveals that he doesnít value you that much.

Itís hard to end things but trust me. Ending something that is not right for you or harmful to your soul gives you a lot of power. Itís a test from the universe that you are not gonna accept mediocrity and crappy behavior from the universe anymore.

More importantly, it opens up space for people that will appreciate you and cherish and value you.

Do you feel loved and cherished and respected by him? ( Not just when heís with you and wants to get physical)

You sounds like a smart, beautiful and successful and independent woman. I think you deserve more.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 10/03/19 02:06 PM

Thanks B & Juju for your thoughts. Jack and I are definitely headed for a serious conversation soon. He will be here this weekend but itís my last weekend at the resort so not sure I want to ruin it with a relationship talk. Iím still thinking a lot about what it is that I want as when I started dating, I told myself I didnít want something serious and that any relationship I entered into, I wanted it to go slow in the emotions department. Compared to previous relationships, this one fits the bill. Probably because it is long distance and I donít tend to see him during the week.

To address your concerns Juju:

1. Texting. This is a tough one for me cause I am someone who likes to text people. My sister and I never go a day without some kind of text exchange even though we live five minutes apart. Jack, on the other hand, only seems to text people for a purpose (i.e to arrange a meeting) and in five months together, I have only seen him text someone on a handful of occasions and it was when he was organizing a meet up with other musicians. He almost never has his phone on him (itís an old phone too that isnít able to receive links to some things (he can get them, they just donít work), emojis (there are only a few that work)) and he rarely goes out of his way to check it. When someone does text him, he doesnít always respond. One night his friend Bryan was texting him (drunk texting him about music ideas apparently) and he only replied twice whereas Bryan sent about ten texts. This week, I decided to change up my texting habits with him and decided to not text him unless he texted me first and to only text him a similar amount of texts. He went an entire day without contacting me and then yesterday morning he sends me a ďhiĒ so I responded with ďMorningĒ and left it. Normally I would have launched into a description of how my day was going but he didnít ask, so I didnít tell him and honestly, I was way too busy yesterday anyway. I got another text when I got home from work asking how my day was so I answered and we ended up having an off and on conversation for a couple of hours. So I have concluded that when it comes to contact, we just have different needs and Iíve decided not to take it personally and to just match his level of contact and spend more of my alone time doing other things.

2. From what I understand, the chronic unemployment has only been this year and this is the first time he has ever collected EI. The last job he had, he worked a lot of overtime and it was not the best of conditions so he told himself he was taking a break and working on his music. He is only responsible to himself...no extra mouths to feed or a mortgage or any significant debt so I get the appeal. He is actively looking for a job currently but doesnít want to have to leave the Island we live on so it is going to take longer for him to find something.

3. The non-introduction to friends and family may be that but it could also be that he just isnít close to people. His brother lives in my town. He doesnít visit him or call him. His grandma is here in a complex. He has visited her once when I was busy and suggested to him it would be a nice thing for her to do. His parents are in his town but I never go there. We have talked about his parents before. He seems to think they are intrusive and forever disapproving of him. He keeps them at armís length. This is foreign to me, for sure, as he would have met my parents by now if they were still alive. But...we were super close and my parents would have almost insisted on it. He only has three friends that he ever mentions and only one of them lives in the vicinity. Heís seen him three times in five months and they met up to go swimming (they met when they were both swimming competitively in high school) and have not socialized outside of that context. I think I will eventually meet some of these people but it wonít be some formal introduction. Thatís just not who Jack is. Still...it is who I am so it is definitely something I am thinking about. If we are still together over Christmas, weíll see how that plays out. Itís only been five months of dating so I feel like I have some time to figure this stuff out.

4. No need for a response. I am aware though. smile

5. My friends and family donít like my XH. Jack...the jury is out. They just donít know him that well. My sister likes him, sheís just not sure he is the one for me longterm.

Do I feel loved and cherished? Sometimes. When we are together, I do. When we are apart during the week, not so much. I always feel respected though. Definitely didnít feel any of those things in my marriage except for when things were easy in the early years of our R.

Anyway... running out of time. Have to get ready for work. Thanks again for keeping up with my sitch and for taking the time to offer your thoughts. I really do appreciate it. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: Ginger1

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 10/03/19 02:56 PM

well, you do mention what upsets you , but you have reasons for why they are what they are. So you have to decide, do I address this with him and come up with a solution that works for the both of , or are you just going to accept things because thatís the way he is. I know from personal experience, if the latter is your choice, you really have to be ok with it, else resentment becomes the destroyer.

As an outsider from the texting situation...... you are at one extreme, and he is at another. Thatís an area you might want to compromise on. It is t going to swing back the other way. Itís got to balance in the middle. And you have to tell him that and explain why it means something to you to compromise. And quite honestly, a compromise is reasonable. He is t even working, so I imagine itís not because heís sitting in meetings all day, or on a work site, etc. he can flex this.

How old is he again?

Does his lack of family connections and friendships concern you?

Just some things to think about. But you have got to be honest with yourself. Take it from me.
Posted By: JujuB

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 10/03/19 03:24 PM

The term spackle is a chump lady term. It means coating over something. She also has this great quote ďcodependency is the addiction to the potential of thingsĒ

In my last relationship (and in my marriage) I kept looking past things that I was unhappy about. Kept ignoring things I didnít like because I thought there was potential for them to change or because I thought maybe there were some redeemable qualities that would overcompensate. Telling myself things with last boyfriend like ďitís not realistic for someone to be perfect. Heís not cheating or an addict, so I can deal with this other crapĒ. Really, he was rude, offensive, lazy, and arrogant.

My ex husband was never around. Needed lots of space. So I told myself , Iím not the needy type. I will just have my own friendships and hobbies. What I wish I had done in hind site was said ďhaving a partner to share my life and do things with is really important to me. Itís not important to him. Thatís an incompatibility and I should find someone that thinks along the same ways that I do.Ē Instead, I was lonely, unhappy, and resentful (and I later found out he was a secret high functioning addict which is why he wasnít spending time with me - so I sacrificed thinking I was too needy and needed to compromise for someone that was really abnormal in his actions)

When I was dating last guy and brought up concerns, Someone had recommended this book about how older woman should just settle. And my mindset at the time was similar. I was thinking how ridiculous it would be for me to have expectations from a person that I was dating. But you know what? You should have standards and expectations. Or else you become a dish rag. I broke up with my last bf because I figured out, I would rather be alone then not having my expectations met. And my expectations were mine and fair. I think the world ďexpectationĒ can be substituted with the word ďboundaryĒ

You have communicated your needs already. . What you have to decide is whether to be with someone that hears you but canít or wonít try to meet your needs. It was something ginger and Andrew struggled with recently and something i struggled with as well. I think when dating people that arenít meeting our needs - itís a good time to end the exclusivity and date others as well, so you can comparison shop. If you find someone that does meet your needs - then you become exclusive.

I think when dating - the big determining factor before committing to someone should be ďam I important enough to this person that they try to make me happyĒ
Posted By: kml

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 10/03/19 04:41 PM

You know, the lack of close connections to others is a bit of a red flag. Family - well, ok, maybe he has some horrible dysfunctional family or something, but that shouldn't preclude friendships.

Frankly, it's something I should have paid more attention to with CMM, but he did a good job of SEEMING like he had more connections at first and once his cancer entered the picture it was kind of moot. But it's turned out that he is largely estranged from his daughters and has few friendships that have survived leaving work. I've met a couple of people he used to know that we ran into randomly at events, and we are actually going to a wedding reception for one of them in a couple of weeks - but that would be the first time we actually socialized with one of his friends, which says a lot about his peculiarities.

IF you can just enjoy this relationship as a temporary comfort, that's great. Maybe it never needs to be anything more than that. But if you find yourself wanting it to be more, I think you'll end up disappointed.
Posted By: Davide

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 10/03/19 06:52 PM

Hey DV,

I haven't been around much over the past few months, but I figured I'd check in with you. Sorry to hear about your client. That must be tough. Especially with a younger person.

It sounds like you are already getting lots of good advice about your relationship. I think it just boils down to what you want out of a relationship. Jack doesn't sound like a guy who is going to change, so are you okay with the relationship continuing on like this, or do you want something else?

The trip to Croatia sounds amazing! I'd love to get there - unfortunately I'm a teacher, so only high-priced tickets for me!

Stay well!
Posted By: neffer

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 10/03/19 08:28 PM

Just keep being yourself DjV. Thatīs all you need girl ;-)

Posted By: Ginger1

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 10/03/19 10:26 PM

What ju ju said all the way. And spackling is such a great turn. And I am the queen of spackling ! Most times itís me questioning myself because I donít know if Iím supposed to feel the way I do. Sometimes I think itís me giving the benefit of the doubt. Often times itís me making excuses. But I cover up the holes that are in relationships.

If you told him what you need and he said he would do a, b, and c, and he still does not, then you do need to decide if this is what you want.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 10/04/19 01:10 AM

Hello DV

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
I texted him that I had stayed home from work because I had an eye infection. Two days later, he texts me, ďHowís your eye?Ē I responded with ďI texted you about my eye two days ago. Do you actually even care how it is?Ē An hour later he texts, ďyesĒ. Thatís it. No explanation of any kind or acknowledgement that my response was a bit testy. Itís like he didnít even notice. TBH, I actually laughed when I read it. It is so him.

Ok. I laughed when I read that as well.

I mean really. ďYesĒ. Thatís it?!? Lol.

So a lot of viewpoints here. Iíll add another to the mix.

From what youíve said over the last 5 months Jack does have a peculiar conversing style, especially, or maybe just, when you two are apart. Why? I could guess, but does it matter? You cannot fix it, and maybe it doesnít need fixing.

You can tell him what you would like from him, in the form of texting while apart. You could even have expectations for certain behaviours or even boundaries - if this is a hill you are willing to die for.

Personally, I would talk him. See what and where he is at, and let him know where you are at.

An interesting thought is what do you think this looks like from his point of view? Demanding, or caring, or needy, or does he not categorize it.

I sense no malicious intent about him from your retelling of his behaviours. I would say he is pretty non-culpable here, regarding texting and phone calls.

If you need more, then thatís something for you to look at. If you want more, then ask him, talk to him, tell him.

A word on comprise. It is not a good solution. Not something to strive for. It is a lose-win scenario.

Likewise the win-lose scenario is just as harmful to a relationship. And in the lose-lose outcome, well no one wins.

We usually see things as our way or their way. Yeah, we think we find some middle ground and call it a compromise, but no one really wins there. Find the true 3rd alternative - a win-win scenario.

This only happens if both parties are willing to look at what constitutes wins for each, and then finds a solution that addresses them. It is really amazing some of the win-win solutions that have be found, and would never have been discovered if a compromise was the goal. It is true that sometimes a compromise is the best solution possible, however it is rare.

A funny example to illustrate. Two people work in an office. Barb wants the window open for fresh air. Dan wants the window closed due to noise and the breeze blowing in. At first it looks like even a middle ground compromise isnít possible - the window canít be both open and shut. It has to be one or the other.

However, what is a win for each? Barb wants fresh air. Dan wants no noise or breeze. Many solution are possible. One solution: Open the window at night when no one is there, and let in fresh air. Then shut it for the day. Barb has a fresh office, and Dan has peaceful environment.

Itís not about the window. Maybe itís not about the texting. Look at what yourís and Jackís wins are and go from there.

Anyhow, just food for thought.

Posted By: doodler

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 10/04/19 11:58 AM

Dan really really likes Cindy who is in the office down the hall. Cindy likes to have the window open. Dan wants Cindy and Barb to switch offices. He doesn't mind having the window open if Cindy is in the office with him. He tries to get Cindy and Barb to change offices. Dan's boss realizes what's going on and decides to move Cindy into Barb's office and Dan will be in the office down the hall. After Dan and Cindy switch offices, Dan decides he likes the breeze from an open window and starts hanging out in Cindy and Barb's office as much as possible.
Posted By: Yail

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 10/30/19 02:05 PM

Hey DV, been curious how you've been? Any updates? Stories?

Hope all is well.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/01/19 02:11 PM

Hi Yail.

Thanks for dropping by. Iíve been doing pretty well. Been keeping up to date on what is going on with others but havenít had a whole lot to say about my sitch. Still have not seen any paperwork that indicates I am divorced but Iím assuming I am since I signed all the papers before the summer. XH was over yesterday. He saw my sisterís car in the driveway so drove around and went in his motherís entrance to talk with her and text me he was there so I would send our son downstairs. He still cannot face my family members. I wandered down with S11 and we chatted for a bit. He told me that OW has Shingles really bad. That [censored] for her....karma is a b#tch. He left after about 15 minutes and I commented to his mom how silly it is that he canít come to the front door when my sister is here. She nodded and said he asked her a week ago if we still ďtrashĒ him. She said she told him she though we wereĒover himĒ and had better things to talk about...lol. My thought... if you donít want to worry about people saying bad things about you, stop doing bad things. Simple as that. Donít do the crime if you canít do the time. Anyway...he and I, as co-parents, are doing a really good job and my kids know that even though I was really mad at their dad for awhile, I will always love him for giving me them. We also did my daughterís parent-teacher interview together and will do my sonís on Monday. It was fine. Last year, I couldnít shake the urge to punch him the entire time and this year...meh. I am indifferent.

Things with Jack are status quo. I see him every weekend and he is home during the week. Our communication during the week is reasonable. If I feel the need to text him about something, he answers. He doesnít initiate contact a whole lot. I donít take it personally as I have come to understand that he is someone that only texts when he has a purpose and idle chitchat isnít something he does. Plus...when we see each other, it is usually from Friday evening to Monday morning so we get a lot of time together. He still has not found a job. Heís had a few offers far away but isnít desperate enough yet to accept them. His last employer recently told him that they have some new projects coming up and will need more people but the timeline is unclear. I am hoping it is soon as the company is in my town so Jack and I can have a more normal dating relationship if/when he moves here instead of the feast or famine one we have now. I finally met one of his friends...lol. He had a gig last week so I went to watch and met his drummer. He seemed very nice...married, closer to my age, vegan, has a pool table at home. I got there during their break and he and I chatted non stop until they had to play again. Jack barely said a word...lol. He did look happy to see me though and had clearly been watching for me to arrive as he came outside and called my name the second I got out of my car.

Anyway...time to start my day. Thank goodness it is Friday. Itís been a draining week. Lots of seriously ill kids coming through our doors and I was the supervisor this week so it was my job to figure out what to do with them. Assigned the most concerning one to myself. This kid actually lit himself on fire cause he was mad and ďdidnít know what else to do.Ē Heís having hallucinations and delusions as well so it seems like he is developing a psychosis. This is a kid who could die quite easily though so it is a lot of responsibility. I meet him this afternoon. Hopefully we can connect on some level so he is motivated to work with me.

Have a great weekend everyone!!!
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/01/19 02:13 PM

DnJ... just realized I did not respond to your post. When I read it, I felt like I needed to mull it over awhile before answering. I will respond when I have more time. smile
Posted By: DnJ

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/02/19 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
We also did my daughterís parent-teacher interview together and will do my sonís on Monday. It was fine. Last year, I couldnít shake the urge to punch him the entire time and this year...meh. I am indifferent.

I remember you wanting to punch him in the face. Lol.

Indifferent. Yep, a much better place.

I do hope that you and that troubled boy find a common ground, a connection. You are doing wonderful work and I know you care.

Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/07/19 01:43 AM

Thanks DnJ. Funny...I met my new client on Friday and there is definitely something going on with him so I am grateful I could get him in to see our psychiatrist tomorrow. He reminded me of another client I have been seeing for a month or so. Another kid with anger issues and drug issues but no psychosis that I can see. I really like him. And on Tuesday when I saw him he mentioned his best friend. He has talked about this boy before but his name didnít mean anything to me at the time. It does now. Of course...he is my new client. Jeez...the population of my town is about 100,000 but you would think it was 100 with all of the kids i have who know each other. Confidentiality is such a tricky thing in these circumstances. I am pretty careful though... I never pump my clients for info on other clients. If they mention them, I make a mental note but thatís about it.

Parent-teacher on Monday with my son went well. No problems between me and XH. We are on as good of terms as we can be on at this stage, I think. We share kids. We communicate respectfully with one another and cooperate with each otherís off-schedule requests whenever possible. I miss my friend but this man who has taken his place is a stranger. I have accepted this about as well as I can, I think. Still have moments of sadness/anger when memories are triggered but these fade quickly. I have never been one to dwell on things and I like to find the open window when a door closes so those aspects of my personality have definitely served me well in this situation. Onwards and upwards to new adventures.

DnJ....Still trying to figure out where I am at with Jack. I think about it a lot. I donít think I have ever been in a relationship after this amount of time when I truly did not have an idea of where it was going or where I wanted it to go. Of course, Iíve never been a 51 year-old twice-divorced mother before either...things are different now than when I was last on the dating scene and searching for someone to be my forever person that I could raise a family with. Now Iím pretty sceptical that that person exists for me. Iím also not sure I need that or will even believe that about someone again...if that makes any sense. So for now Jack meets my needs until I decide that my needs are greater than what he can provide. But Iím not there yet. Iím still healing and still trying to figure out who I am. Jack being around only on weekends gives me lots of space to do that and I think it is good for me at the moment.

Anyway...I will continue to think about things. Looking forward to next week. I have a five-day tournament that, for me, is the warm-up for the ten-day tournament in Vegas in March. Love and (((HUGS))) to all!!!
Posted By: DnJ

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/08/19 12:16 PM

Good Morning DV

It is amazing how small the world sometimes looks. A city of 100,000 seemly like a town of 100; your clients knowing each other; such a low degree of separation within a city. I can definitely see your need to be alert to ensure confidentiality when conversing with the kids.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Of course, Iíve never been a 51 year-old twice-divorced mother before either...


A 52 year old divorced Dad over here.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
... searching for someone to be my forever person that I could raise a family with. Now Iím pretty sceptical that that person exists for me. Iím also not sure I need that or will even believe that about someone again...if that makes any sense.

Makes perfect sense.

To add to that:

ďSomeone to be my forever person that I could raise a family withĒ - thatís you. Youíve already found that forever person. They exist in you. Stop looking elsewhere.

You are looking for and want to believe in a person wanting to be with a 51 year-old twice-divorced mother who is raising a family. That person doesnít need to fit into a mold of someone whom you could raise a family with; I think that is yourís (and my) old thinking of last time upon the dating scene. Find someone who wants you and the life and family you bring to the table, and you to want theirís.

The bar isnít set lower or higher - itís a different bar.

If that makes sense.

Posted By: bttrfly

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/09/19 10:41 AM

jumping in to say that it being a different bar makes total sense to me.
Posted By: Ginger1

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/09/19 12:22 PM

Well, what do you want at this point in your life? Are you still searching for the perfect person to raise a family with?

DnJ said it all very well. The bar for me is very different at this stage in my life. Iím want someone whom I am compatible with, self supporting, generous with his heart, that takes interest in my family and the life I built for myself but not someone to raise my daughter with. Sheís 12, sheís got parents..... but it is important that the person I date gels well with my daughter, my parenting style, etc. but im not looking for that person to raise her, because sheís being raised just fine.

I look at whatís important to me at this stage in my life. Is that person compatible with the life you have now? Are you compatible with the life they have now?

The great thing again is you donít have to make any decisions because you donít have a biological clock ticking ! But do ask yourself if you are satisfied and happy where things are right now.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/09/19 06:39 PM

Thanks everyone.

A different bar... yes, I think thatís it. I am looking for a companion...not a dad for my kids or someone to pay my bills. I want someone that has my back, is interested in me as a person, forgives my flaws, appreciates my strengths, is kind to my kids but not looking to be their dad (turns out they have a pretty good one now that we arenít together) and who challenges me to grow in some way. And I want someone who is really affectionate and doesnít mind that I am too. Does Jack meet those criteria? Some of them. With some of them, the jury is still out. I see flashes of it on the weekends...the weekday separation is still a tad bit too separate for me. But....he hopes to move to my area so I will see what happens when he lives closer. For now, he makes me happy and I like spending time with him. Oh...and he has earned a few brownie points this week. My tournament is next week and he says he wants to come watch which is a new one for me. Neither of my exís were interested in doing that. My kidsí dad came once with a couple of his friends to watch me play for about an hour in 2017 - ironic since he was three years into his double life by that time. Anyway...IĒm happy Jack is interested. It means a lot to me.

In other news.... OW is in the hospital again. Not for Shingles though. Apparently her pancreas issues have arisen again (last year he says she ďalmost diedĒ) and she is quite ill. Thatís all the info I have. Makes me wonder about her past as I donít think it is common for a 38 year-old to have issues with her pancreas unless she has done some serious drinking. Donít think this is currently an issue but her having had a hard life has been alluded to a few times. I ended up taking the kids on one of his nights so he could be with her at the hospital. He was very thankful. I told him I hoped they were better able to treat her this time and he texted me ďThank-you - like reallyĒ. Honestly...I donít wish poor health on anyone even if I have every reason in the world to do it. Lifeís too short to be angry and bitter and she has kids who need her. So I hope she gets better.

Having some issues with my brother that make me wonder about a mental illness but I donít have enough details to make a judgment call. Heís been trying to call me that last couple days to tell me about something that is ďabout to happenĒ that he is excited about. I know a few details from my BIL and itís not good. Heís approaching delusional territory. Iím not looking forward to when we finally connect as I know what he wants to tell me and I donít know what to say to him about it. My sister has been avoiding him too for the same reason. Regardless of his mental state, he is going to be crushed when things donít work out the way he thinks. frown

Anyway...off to face another day. Thanks again for keeping up with my sitch everyone. Really appreciate it. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: kml

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/09/19 07:05 PM

Sorry about your brother . Bipolar mania can verge into delusions (Kanye West is a good example, poor guy). Drugs like meth and coke can mimic schizophrenua. But if this is a brand new thing not superimposed on a background of addiction or mental illness, there are also some medical conditions to consider ruling out.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/12/19 02:30 PM

Thanks KML. My BIL talked to him and he seems to be a bit more realistic than he was. Weíre keeping an eye on it and looking for any other signs of psychosis. So far it is just this one thing. My brother recently realized he has been suffering with PTSD for the past 28 years and is seeking help for it so that makes me feel a bit better as he will be in regular contact with a therapist and his doctor.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/14/19 05:10 PM

Hey All. Just popping in for a brief update. Yesterday was Day One of my tournament and it could not have gone better. The Scotch Doubles portion of the tournament was yesterday and I was not happy that my partner and I had to play my sister and her partner first. Thirty teams and we get them. They have won the tournament a couple times and come second as well so they are really strong and my partner and I have never played together before. Anyway...long story short...we beat them!!! We then won our next two matches before getting knocked to the B Side by an old teammate of mine and her partner. That was our worst match. We had a long wait until our sixth match but ended up winning 4-0. We then had to play my sister and her partner again. We beat them again so they ended up placing 4th. Our next match was with the pair who knocked us to the B Side and we ended up beating them too!!! So it was down to us and the team that hadnít lost yet. We have to beat them twice (two races to four). We ended up playing one match last night (we won again!!!) and have to play the second one sometime today. If we win, we are this yearís Scotch Doubles champions. Not bad for two people who havenít played together before.

In other news... OW is out of the hospital. My MIL tells me she has chronic pancreatitis (her dad does too) and it is a lifelong condition that will have her in and out of hospital depending on how well she manages it. She also told me OW has never been married and her last bf beat her up. My theory about my XH enjoying the ďheroĒ role seems pretty dead on. He is also financially stressed. I texted him a couple days ago to ask if he was going to order our daughterís gii for TKD as he has been promising her since the summer that he will. He texts me that he was planning on giving it to her for Christmas and it is $80 so he canít really afford it right now. Wtf??? He makes over $80,000 a year and he canít afford to buy his daughter for less than $100 something he has been promising to get her for a couple months? A year ago he was DEBT FREE!!!! There are no words. Iím just glad he didnít take me down with him.

Anyway...gotta get ready for my day. Didnít get home until 12:30 last night and it took me a couple hours to fall asleep because I was too wired from all the pool and excited about being in the final. So...Iím a tad bit tired today as I only got about five hours sleep. Good thing my Singles tournament doesnít start until tomorrow.

Happy weekend all!!! (((HUGS)))
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/14/19 05:18 PM

Forgot to mention...being at the tournament reminded me of what a mess I was last year. I remember being at the tournament and just ruminating about my husband and my life. Still shocked and in disbelief and wanting my life back. Did not play my best, that is for sure. This year...almost no thoughts of him at all. Time really does heal. Not sure I will ever 100% get over what he did but I WILL, and for the most part have, get over him. To all the newcomers out there... I did NOT think I would EVER get to this place but with the help of this board and the support of friends and family, I did. You will too. You will get to a place where your happiness does not depend on whether or not you save your marriage or have the love and respect of your spouse because you will have the love and respect for you!!! (((HUGS)))
Posted By: AndrewP

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/14/19 06:06 PM

Hurry!!!! Hurry Hard !!!!

Sex with curlers is loud from what I understand laugh

Good job doing so well. You have a lot to be proud of.
Posted By: neffer

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/14/19 09:43 PM

You are there DjV.


Thanks for posting!
Posted By: DnJ

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/14/19 10:36 PM

Way to go DV!

Both in pool and life. smile
Posted By: bttrfly

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/15/19 10:24 AM

wwwwooooooohoooooo!!! congrats DV on the pool and life !! so happy for you xoxoxo
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/20/19 02:54 PM

Thanks everyone. It was a great weekend!! My partner and I did end up winning the Scotch Doubles event which was unexpected given the caliber of teams in the field and the fact that we have never played together before. It was a lot of fun. My BIL, my regular partner, hasnít congratulated me or my partner. Guess I canít blame him since I kinda dumped him this year. We just havenít played well together for a few years so I wanted to try playing with someone new. Feeling justified now...lol. Singles did not go well. Just didnít play my best. The team event was a lot of fun and we did pretty well considering the competition. My sister and I played in the menís event for the first time with her husband and a couple of other guys we know from our league. I played the best I have in a while. My sister called me the MVP...lol. She didnít play her best but she had some good moments. My favourite match was the last one we won. We were down 12-6 and came back to win it 13-12. We ended up coming in 7th-8th.

Jack watched all my matches despite me giving him an ďoutĒ. Heís the first guy in my life who has ever done that. Definitely gets some points for that. smile
Posted By: DnJ

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/26/19 12:40 PM

Good Morning DV

Congratulations on the tournament. What a come back; a six game deficit and pulls out the win.

Nice to hear that Jack watched all your matches.

Actions do speak pretty loud. smile

Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/27/19 01:48 AM

Thanks DnJ. smile

So...got my divorce order in the mail today. I am officially divorced as of November 30th. It was a bit surreal holding that piece of paper...14 years...one piece of paper...over. I had been expecting it at some point since I signed the papers in May. Not sure what I am feeling. A bit sad but mostly just sorta numb about it. I guess XH got the same letter I did. I wonder how he felt and if he and OW are doing a happy dance. Or is he also a bit sad? Kinda glad Iíll never know.

Not much else to report. Jack continues to spend every weekend with me. Still no job but he has a contact at a major company in my city that is hiring soon. Not welding but still a decent job. Fingers crossed.
Posted By: Yail

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/27/19 03:49 AM

I'm sorry DV. No matter if you're numb, relieved, sad...all of it (likely)...it's a tough moment in some ways. You survived it, and that specific moment is behind you. At least the subtle anticipation is gone. One more step in grief, even if your grief doesn't currently look like constant sadness.

I'm glad you acknowledged it here with us. Thanks for sharing that bit.
Posted By: ballast

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/27/19 11:39 AM


Crazy how ridiculously anti-climatic officially being divorced is isn't it? All the emotions/bickering/fighting/whatever with your soon to be ex distilled into a harmless piece of paper with less than a full page worth of words on it. Over. Done. Exceedingly sterile and clinical.

When mine was done my atty wanted to give me a high five which felt to me completely out of place. Kinda like you I didn't feel anything really because heck again nothing REALLY happened to me or my circumstance before or after that piece of paper came. I never even wondered what my ex thought, although I did wonder what the rest of her family thought. Ironically I found out that she never even told the rest of her family...I assume guilt made her reluctant to share the news but perhaps she felt it none of their business.

You are FREE now. Yay. I don't say that to you with celebratory exclamations because I know the path and effort and pain it took you to get where you are. More a factual there you are then anything else. BUT...you now have your own FUTURE free and unabated for you to make with it what you want and THAT is WONDERFUL!!!

I wish you the best of happiness in the enjoyment of whatever lies ahead for you in your life!

Posted By: DnJ

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 11/28/19 01:04 AM

Hello DV

Iím glad you shared about getting your divorce papers. (((DV)))

It is amazing all those years distilled down into a single document. As others have said, it is so anticlimactic.

At this point, divorce is really just a piece of paper. Funny, how I never ďgotĒ that until I was there.

Iím sorry and happy for you; Iím pretty sure you understand how those do go together in these circumstances.

Be easy on yourself. After I got my papers, there was some shock, grief processing - a little depression, seeing the new reality, and accepting. It does go by pretty quick all things considered. Still, some emotions will be stirred up, and itís best to work through them.

You will do splendidly; youíre a strong levelheaded woman. Freedom and your unknown future awaits. Live it full.

Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 12/01/19 10:38 PM

Hi All.

I had a surprising text from OW on Thursday letting me know that she and XH know that I am on this site and that both of them have read EVERY ONE of my over 1,000 posts. If it wasnít enough that some perfect stranger wandered into my life uninvited, helped herself to my H and stole 50% of my time with my children from me... she and XH thought it would also be a good idea to essentially break into my therapistís office and hide in the closet so they could hear every single thought I have ever had about it. And not only that, since I have mostly written about my life apart from all of that over the past six months, theyíve also been voyeurs into my dating life and my relationship with Jack. It feels like they broke into my house, stole my diary and read it cover to cover. Such a violation of my privacy! I would say that it is unbelievable except when it comes to XH, nothing surprises me anymore. If my daughter ever decides to keep a diary, I will make sure it stays at my place.

Can you believe OW actually had the nerve to be upset about what she had read and, get this, told me I should have used their real names? Huh??? Hereís a thought...if you donít like what you are reading, why donít you stop reading it? Itís not like I sent you an invitation and a link. And do you not understand why forums like this are anonymous? Itís so we can work through one of the hardest times of our lives without the people in our real lives being affected. What if I hadnít found this forum and instead gone onto social media or contacted XHís friends and family or talked to the numerous mutual acquaintances we have in the school district they both work for? I could have made life very, very difficult for both of them. But I didnít. I also steered clear of social media and did not say one word about it even though I would certainly have been justified in doing so. They both got off so easy, they have no idea. One thing is for sure, if I ever thought my XH had changed in any way, he just proved me wrong. And it appears he has found someone exactly like him.

So....I have blocked her on my phone as there is no need for she and I to have any contact with one another. I also told XH that if he has anything to say to me, he can say it directly as he doesnít need someone to fight his battles for him. Not that there are any battles despite this recent attempt to create one. XH and I have been doing really well coparenting and I expect that to continue as he is smart enough to know that he and OW are in the wrong here. Hopefully, they have figured that out and have given up spying on me but just in case they havenít, Iím only going to post on other peopleís threads for the foreseeable future. If I do come back and want to post about my life, I wonít do it as DejaVu6 though but I will find a way to let you all know it is me.

Anyway... thank you all so, so much for being there for me and for helping me get through this awful time in my life. Even though we have never met IRL, you have been my biggest supporters... encouraging me when I needed it and giving me 2x4ís when I needed those too. I would not be doing half as well as I am now if it werenít for you and I am forever grateful. I love you all. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: JujuB

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 12/02/19 12:12 AM

Iím sorry

I canít believe how invasive a person is capable of being. Seriously. I wonder what type of life she has that would make her still curious about yours. Like, what normal person does that and then tells you. And sheís a teacher? Sounds like she just likes to be the center of attention and get rises out of people. Makes her feel special or attractive. Deep down they have no self esteem.

I wonder what itís like being the other woman and having to know that the pos that cheated on his wife with you will eventually do the same. Just give it a few years when things become mundane. Hence the spying. I bet Sheís looking for dirt cause she doesnít completely trust him. And I donít know how smart he actually is, cause she sounds like a wack job.

. I also donít think they got off easy. She has him ... a guy capable of deceit, and lying and betrayal. Not a prize. I would never want a guy capable of cheating on the mother of his kids. And he gets her ... nothing lower then a woman that goes after someone married with kids. Lots of entitlement going on there and they deserve each other.

Just keep being the incredible And dignified person you are. It [censored] that people out there exist and get off on this. But you just seem like a great person and you are so better off.
Posted By: kml

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 12/02/19 01:38 AM

Wow - slutty OW calling you to announce sheís invaded your privacy in this way? I think that tells you everything you need to know about her character (or lack thereof). And when a couple, like your ex and OW , focus on you instead of their relationship with each other, itís usually a way of avoiding the problems in their own relationship,

Yup, she won the prize - a cheater. And if heíll cheat with her, heíll cheat on her. Sheíll be looking over her shoulder wondering who heís gonna cheat with next the whole time sheís with him.

Neither of them are worth a minute of your time, girl. They deserve each other.
Posted By: Ginger1

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 12/02/19 01:55 AM

Iím so sorry this happened to you. It is like a sick form of voyeurism . Well, she got to read about all the destruction she caused to a marriage where kids are involved. Sheís got to live with that. Disgusting.

And I totally agree. If these two have nothing better to do than read your posts, something is clearly lacking in their R.

I have a feeling she will be posting on here as a left behind spouse in no time. And she will deserve it
Posted By: AndrewP

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 12/02/19 02:30 AM

((DejaVu6)) - I've had a stalker here myself that actually required the moderators to get involved. It's not fun and we are fortunate to have kind caring people watching over us.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 12/02/19 01:39 PM

Hello DV

Like the others have said, OW and XH are showing their true colours and the sand upon which their relationship is built.

Yes! Block her! She was and is non important, a symptom, an affair - nothing more.

If they cheat with you, theyíll cheat on you. (Ok, that sentence might be for spying eyes. smile )

I understand the need for you to not post for a while, and/or change names.

Do stay strong, and live full.

Posted By: job

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 12/02/19 03:02 PM

We have had a number of stalkers who come here and some have actually shown their hand by spilling the beans that they are lurking reading what has been written. That was very stupid of them to let you know what they were doing.

Don't let them win and keep you from posting. When you are ready, come back under a different user name. In fact, I would suggest that you set up a new account because if you just change your User Name, that new name will replace your old one in all of your posts. So, play it safe and set up a new account entirely.

Please do not stay away too long. If you opt to wait until after the holidays, we all understand.

Please take care of yourself.
Posted By: kml

Re: No Longer Down, Definitely Not Out Part III - 12/02/19 03:31 PM

Hmmmm.... one also wonders how they knew? Did one of your kids mention that you were on this site? Or could your ex have installed tracking software on your computer? Iíd get it checked out just to be safe.

And you know, why would an ex husband who is happy in his new relationship be spying on an ex wife that he is truly over? Jealousy over your new boyfriend? Thatís probably whatís got OWís panties in a bunch.

And if sheís read your posts, she knows that the lies he may have told her at the beginning of their relationship are lies.

Yeah sounds like the two of them deserve each other. Karma is a biatch. You just keep on going forward DV.

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