So lets start this open thread with the logic of understanding male and female dynamics during dating and not take anything said as personal but simply ones own opinion which you may or may not agree with.
This can include OLD, Texting and Socializing.
I will start this out with saying all people chase. In fact the first chase is usually done by the woman. Either through a smile, getting closer to you in proximity so you can start a conversation, or a blatant Hello from her as a conversation starter.
A smarter, high quality female at our age is gonna run from a guy that is a ladies man. I know that would not attract me. I would want a guy that seems loyal. If you are looking for wild girls, i would agree.
Well first what do you consider a ladies man? Are you saying that during dating a man can only be loyal to one woman? If a man attracts multiple types of women that doesnt make him a ladies man. Loyalty to me means being honest with a woman.
Here is one for the ladies. There is a theory that a woman is more attracted to a man who has many options. Is that true?
A smarter, high quality female at our age is gonna run from a guy that is a ladies man. I know that would not attract me. I would want a guy that seems loyal. If you are looking for wild girls, i would agree.
Well first what do you consider a ladies man? Are you saying that during dating a man can only be loyal to one woman? If a man attracts multiple types of women that doesnt make him a ladies man. Loyalty to me means being honest with a woman.
I think when you are being honest with a woman you are displaying honesty - still an attractive quality, but it's not loyalty as such. Loyalty is sticking by her when there are competing interests, whether those interests are other women or other ways to spend your time.
Loyalty is sticking by her when there are competing interests, whether those interests are other women or other ways to spend your time.
In my opinion when you are dating and no talk of being exclusive has been discussed, then you can be loyal to her and still see other people or do other things. As long as when you are with her your time is devoted to her and not thinking about someone else.
I firmly believe a woman should not be your number one priority unless you are currently with her, then by all means give her all of your attention.
Your number one focus and priority should be yourself, mainly because that is the only thing in life you can control.
Look, I've dated a lot between the ages of 52 and 62. A LOT depends on what you are looking for at this age.
1) Some are still looking for the "love of their life", to settle down with that one person for the rest of their life.
2) Some don't want that kind of serious lifelong commitment but would like to have a steady dating partner.
3) Some don't want any commitment at all and just want to have fun with various dates with no obligation.
I fall somewhere around number two - I have NO interest in marrying again legally, but would like to have just one partner to share my life with. But if CMM, my current boyfriend, were to die on me, I might choose to just be a number 3 person going forward.
NOW - how you approach dating should depend on what your goals are. Someone who is a number 3 has NO BUSINESS dating a number 1 and should be responsible and stay away. If you're a number 3, try to find other number 3's to date. You'll both be happier. If you're a number 1, don't waste your time dating number 3's.
As for the chasing business - I know, as a woman, it can scare me off if somebody comes on too strong right out of the gate. It makes you feel like they aren't falling for YOU but for their IDEA of you, their fantasy. And if you don't feel like you really know them well enough yet to make that assessment yourself, it's off-putting. I do think most men and women like a little uncertainty at first - how many couples do you know who tell a story of meeting that is some variation on "I didn't know if he/she liked me then XYZ happened and now we're together"?
On the other hand - I know for a fact that in my younger days, I gave up on some guys who didn't seem to be expressing enough interest, only to find out years after the fact that they WERE interested and probably would have stepped up if I'd been a little more patient and not moved on so quickly.
Here is one for the ladies. There is a theory that a woman is more attracted to a man who has many options. Is that true?
WHat does many options even mean? THat they have known women fawning over them?
ANd no.
FF I dated had our whole 6pm gym class of younger single women with no kids wanting to date him. (he was 9 years my junior) Turned out he was interested in me, the 9 year older divorced mom. Even though I was shocked he was interested in me, I did say yes when he asked me out. But the appeal of all these women wanting his had no say in that. It was actually miserable, I got a lot of shade from these women.
I am pretty simple. I am attracted to a funny guy who is personable and sweet. There aren't certain "games" that attract me. SOmeone trying to have too much game, well, that sure turns me off.
Here is one for the ladies. There is a theory that a woman is more attracted to a man who has many options. Is that true?
I don't know that you can say that definitively because how are you supposed to know how many options somebody has? What I would say is that generally, people (don't think the gender matters) are more attracted to people who they perceive others would also find attractive. I would also argue that generally someone who is judged to be quite attractive (not just based on appearance) is also someone who likely has a number of options. I think it is a version of the chicken or the egg dilemma. Which comes first?
For me. I did chase my ex when he left me. That was a panic move amd i blamed myself for him leaving. I did not know about the money or addictions at that point. If i had known of another woman, i can honestly say i would have had a lawyer a lot quicker.
I did initiate on OLD with the guy i am currenty with. I joked about something in his profile. I dont consider that chasing. I initiated with him because his profile was long and showed effort and indicated that he was looking for something serious but in a funny way. And because he had raised his child by himself. I sensed that he would not be confident enough to approach me so i knew i would have to make the first move. After that he initiated.
If i found out he was dating other women I would not sleep with him. I would not choose to sleep with soneone if i was dating other people. The sex wouldnt be good for me in that case. Im not saying i want to get married, just that i would not want to sleep with someone that was gonna sleep with someone else the following week.
If a guy kept asking me out, but was honest that he was going out with other women too, there would be no reason for me to keep dating him. I would figure, "hey he wants to see if theres someone better that he can get". He would not be worth my time. And i am not saying that to be snarky. It just would not be in my best interest.
As a background, i live in a very populated and dense area, so there is a lot of opportunity. In general, i do not have trouble with guys liking me or asking me out. Basically as soon as i was single, i had a lot of male friends of friends that expressed interest. I have a lot of anxieties but dating and men never stressed me because i know there will always be some one out there. I tend to view dating and relationships as a practical matter and i am very aware of my own self interests. . I think guys like me because i dont need them and do things independently but im not sure. I would choose to look differently, but im told positive things about my looks. (I know that people lie and I am aware that i am getting older) so i think that helps along with having a professional career. These are all surface things, i know but i tend to find that with men, you can get away with more if you have the surface things... again, im not trying to be snarky, just honest about the male/ female dynamics and dating world. Im the opposite. I want a guy that has good morals and will be devoted to me because that serves my best interests. I understand there can be flaws in that line of thinking as well though.
Rex. I have to say i enjoy and appreciate your honesty and i also like to be honest without having to worry about political correctness. Hope this helps
I think that kml has hit on a critical part of the discussion. What do people want? Do they even know that?
One second thing to toss out there is that it is well known that there can be some very unhealthy dynamics especially in the early part of a relationship. The narcissistic cycle of idealize, devalue, discard for example. The first part is sometimes also called "love bombing" or "mirroring" and is a classic "pick up" tactic that is used by both women and men. Sometimes consciously and sometimes not.
I know well from first hand experience how seductive it can be to think that someone is "really in to you" and for them to also think similarly.
So it all circles back to what kml said. If you know who you are and what you are looking for in a relationship then that is the sort of dating you will do.
Personally, I believe that confidence and self-awareness are the most attractive qualities that people of either gender can have. But there is no "one-size fits all". Some people are rescuers / fixers and are attracted to broken people. Some people are - for the lack of a better term - gold-diggers and are attracted to people who bring something extra be it money or good looks.
I'm going to follow along. This may be interesting.
1) Some are still looking for the "love of their life", to settle down with that one person for the rest of their life.
2) Some don't want that kind of serious lifelong commitment but would like to have a steady dating partner.
3) Some don't want any commitment at all and just want to have fun with various dates with no obligation.
NOW - how you approach dating should depend on what your goals are. Someone who is a number 3 has NO BUSINESS dating a number 1 and should be responsible and stay away. If you're a number 3, try to find other number 3's to date. You'll both be happier. If you're a number 1, don't waste your time dating number 3's.
I completely agree with your assessment and I put myself as 1 and 3 with half of 2. lol
I am open to a serious relationship, but only after i meet the right one for me, and until then I am going to enjoy the journey of looking for that right person.
I also look to date younger than my age, just because they are more open too all sorts of relationships, and I am also attracted to their freespirit and their lack of jadedness towards men.
As for the chasing business - I know, as a woman, it can scare me off if somebody comes on too strong right out of the gate. It makes you feel like they aren't falling for YOU but for their IDEA of you, their fantasy. And if you don't feel like you really know them well enough yet to make that assessment yourself, it's off-putting.
I agree with this too because too strong to me comes off also as needy. If you are needy you are just looking to fill a void and in the long run you are fooling yourself.
FF I dated had our whole 6pm gym class of younger single women with no kids wanting to date him. (he was 9 years my junior) Turned out he was interested in me, the 9 year older divorced mom. Even though I was shocked he was interested in me, I did say yes when he asked me out. But the appeal of all these women wanting his had no say in that. It was actually miserable, I got a lot of shade from these women.
I am pretty simple. I am attracted to a funny guy who is personable and sweet. There aren't certain "games" that attract me. SOmeone trying to have too much game, well, that sure turns me off.
Why were you shocked that he was interested in you? Could it have been because in his mind he could of asked any other woman out in that class but instead he chose to ask you out? Also knowing that he could of asked out other women, did it not also make you feel good about yourself? That he chose you over them.
I don't know that you can say that definitively because how are you supposed to know how many options somebody has?
One way to know subconsciously is how confident they are. Usually a person that has options and knows they have options are very confident because it doesnt matter to them what your answer is. They know they can find a date if they want one. That type of confidence is hard to fake.
I did initiate on OLD with the guy i am currenty with. I joked about something in his profile. I dont consider that chasing. I initiated with him because his profile was long and showed effort and indicated that he was looking for something serious but in a funny way.
That is the definition of chasing. You initiated the contact. So you did do the initial chasing. which goes back to my statement that women start the chasing process.
If i found out he was dating other women I would not sleep with him. I would not choose to sleep with soneone if i was dating other people. The sex wouldnt be good for me in that case. Im not saying i want to get married, just that i would not want to sleep with someone that was gonna sleep with someone else the following week.
If a guy kept asking me out, but was honest that he was going out with other women too, there would be no reason for me to keep dating him. I would figure, "hey he wants to see if theres someone better that he can get". He would not be worth my time. And i am not saying that to be snarky. It just would not be in my best interest.
Rex. I have to say i enjoy and appreciate your honesty and i also like to be honest without having to worry about political correctness. Hope this helps
Well in all fairness I would never tell a woman i am seeing other women, unless she specifically asks. And if she did ask specifically I would then answer with are you asking me to be exclusive with you.. My answer would then depend on hers.
Rex. I have to say i enjoy and appreciate your honesty and i also like to be honest without having to worry about political correctness. Hope this helps
It helps alot, and I do appreciate it, and i am sure other people will appreciate the candor of this thread and all of its participants.
Rex
I also look to date younger than my age, just because they are more open too all sorts of relationships, and I am also attracted to their freespirit and their lack of jadedness towards men.
Boy that's a big old bag of ASSumption there.
I can honestly say that I'm MUCH more freespirited than I was when I was younger. And actually much more accepting of men in all their varieties and permutations. I also have a lot more confidence, DGAF what others think of me, and make much better conversation. The times I dated much younger men (they sought me out, I wasn't looking) they all complained that women their age were high maintenance, needy and superficial. Now, that's an ASSumption as well, but my point is, you may be looking in the wrong places if you're looking for free spirits.
I fully agree with kml on this. I know a couple of women who are in their 60's who have embraced their sexuality and their age and are looking for men who can keep up to them. The primary one of these that I know happens to be my 3rd cousin so - we're not dating but I get a big hug every time she stops by to raid my apple tree (not a metaphor).
rex - I've not followed your story at all so I can honestly say that I don't know you from Adam but you remind me of a story that I've posted before. My barber - who I've known for 30 years - once told me that if he was to go "a-wandering" that he would target married women because they could be interested in non-commitment sex. Your postings remind me of that.
For me - and I'm 54, nearly 55 so perhaps a generation older than you - I can't imagine having sex with a woman who I wasn't in an exclusive, committed relationship with. Heck, I can't even imagine smooching a woman who didn't fit in to that category. Call me old-fashioned or a prude perhaps. But that's me. Even when I was younger I still believed in the same principles. And I like to believe that a lot of women think the same way. Normal, every-day women who live their lives, deal with their own crap and who don't rely on any man to validate them as being worthy.
Certainly there are women out there who can be vulnerable to different tactics and who also play those games themselves for their own reasons. But you need to ask yourself. Are you just looking at getting your rocks off or do you want a committed life partner. The first you can rent. The second you have to work for.
Andrew,
I am not sure if it is a generational thing or just how someone structures their values. I am 37 and I would be in a similar boat to you. I could not imagine sex with a woman unless we were exclusive and we were committed. I was always raised with relationships being developed on love first sex later. Maybe that makes me old fashioned too. It does concern me that those values will be a hurdle for women in my dating age range.
1) Some are still looking for the "love of their life", to settle down with that one person for the rest of their life.
2) Some don't want that kind of serious lifelong commitment but would like to have a steady dating partner.
3) Some don't want any commitment at all and just want to have fun with various dates with no obligation.
Once again KML very astute and on target. I'd say I'm mostly in or entering into #2 perhaps as I'm leaving #3. The thing is, the age group I'm in or looking to date, I'm betting if we add groups 2 and 3 together they still won't total the number of woman in group 1. It almost seems like woman are programmed to want group 1. Even if after multiple failed Rs they are still in their 40s, 50s and 60s looking for their "soulmate". Ive been honest in the past only to lose any chance of #2. I'm still honest but while leaving the door open to change my mind - which is possible, just not as likeky as they probably hope. Then again, who knows.
Andrew,
I am not sure if it is a generational thing or just how someone structures their values. I am 37 and I would be in a similar boat to you. I could not imagine sex with a woman unless we were exclusive and we were committed. I was always raised with relationships being developed on love first sex later. Maybe that makes me old fashioned too. It does concern me that those values will be a hurdle for women in my dating age range.
Why would these values be a hurdle? I think many women would respect this.
As said before everyone is looking for something different and with old you just don’t know what that is because most don’t come out and say it. After you have been at it for a while you can usually tell by how fast they are moving. Yes....some girls will be turned off but the quality ones will go slower which will be more aligned with your values. That said in my experience the sex will come before the love even with those that are relationship material.
FF I dated had our whole 6pm gym class of younger single women with no kids wanting to date him. (he was 9 years my junior) Turned out he was interested in me, the 9 year older divorced mom. Even though I was shocked he was interested in me, I did say yes when he asked me out. But the appeal of all these women wanting his had no say in that. It was actually miserable, I got a lot of shade from these women.
Understand makes sense.
I am pretty simple. I am attracted to a funny guy who is personable and sweet. There aren't certain "games" that attract me. SOmeone trying to have too much game, well, that sure turns me off.
That brings up a good point where quite often I see online "have no time to play games". What does that actually mean?
That brings up a good point where quite often I see online "have no time to play games". What does that actually mean?
I take it to mean that they aren't wanting FWB, endless texting but no meeting, people who are still married or pining for the fjords etc. If they've stated that they are interested in a serious relationship without games I take that to mean that they want a person who is willing, able and prepared to enter in to one in a reasonable amount of time.
Phrases like "friends first and then see where it goes" are one indicator that I've seen on profiles.
Just like with dbing believe actions not words. I have ran across many women who indicated in their profile that they were seeking an LTR but their actions were not congruent with their words. Ladies dont take this the wrong way but women like to have sex as much or more than men however they dont want to look promiscuous either. The stigma is different for women than men so I believe sometimes they mask their true intentions.
Yup - check out Wednesday Martin's latest book called 'Untrue'... and Christopher Ryan's book 'Sex at Dawn'..... amazing research on human sexual behaviors and evolutionary programming.
I can honestly say that I'm MUCH more freespirited than I was when I was younger. And actually much more accepting of men in all their varieties and permutations. I also have a lot more confidence, DGAF what others think of me, and make much better conversation. The times I dated much younger men (they sought me out, I wasn't looking) they all complained that women their age were high maintenance, needy and superficial. Now, that's an ASSumption as well, but my point is, you may be looking in the wrong places if you're looking for free spirits.
You have a point here, but also the body type that I am attracted to is more prevalent with younger women than older ones. Now I am 43 and there are some older woman I do find myself attracted to, but they are not usually single. And the women that I would of been attracted to when they were younger now have let themselves go, and why should I try to force my attraction to someone who is no longer in their prime, and so they know this and have figured out they can no longer date the hot guy they used to and have opened up their options. Why should I now accept that I would be their plan B? "waiting for the blowback on this one lol"
rex - I've not followed your story at all so I can honestly say that I don't know you from Adam but you remind me of a story that I've posted before. My barber - who I've known for 30 years - once told me that if he was to go "a-wandering" that he would target married women because they could be interested in non-commitment sex. Your postings remind me of that.
I have been hit on by married women and it honestly is a big turn off. Why would i knowingly put a guy through something that I went through myself? I also shy away from dating people with kids. Not all women are like this, but I honestly dont want to be a father figure to someone else's child. Also it is very difficult to sync up schedules between when I have my daughter and when they would have their kids.
Andrew,
I am not sure if it is a generational thing or just how someone structures their values. I am 37 and I would be in a similar boat to you. I could not imagine sex with a woman unless we were exclusive and we were committed. I was always raised with relationships being developed on love first sex later. Maybe that makes me old fashioned too. It does concern me that those values will be a hurdle for women in my dating age range.
Yeah this would definately be a hurdle with me. Sex and love are different in my book. Maybe its because i am a libra, maybe not, but I think of sex as more fun, exercise and experimentation between two people. Not necessarily an emotional attachment. If a woman told me that she wanted to wait to have sex until after a committed relationship, I would say thats nice, but let me ask you this. What if I told you I was unemployed and didnt plan on working until I was in a committed relationship. ( its a good example from a book i read) Would you still want to date me also?
After you have been at it for a while you can usually tell by how fast they are moving. Yes....some girls will be turned off but the quality ones will go slower which will be more aligned with your values.
really depends on their attraction level to the guy. Even quality women would move fast with someone like Brad Pitt or any other heartthrob that checks off their boxes.
That brings up a good point where quite often I see online "have no time to play games". What does that actually mean?
that they are aware and play the game themselves. I have said this before, women play the game much better than men ever will. They have been doing it their whole life, whether consciously or subconsciously. I noticed this with my daughter when she was 4. She got mad at my friends son who is also 4. I dont remember what was done, but she walked up to him and told him that she was fighting with him and mad at him. She then walked off. He went up to her and asked whats wrong, like a caring person would, and she responded we are fighting. He look around and said we are not fighting I didnt hit you and you are not hitting me. She once again responded we are fighting. He then began to cry because he didnt understand and was hurt. So crying he walked up to me and told me what was happening and said I am not hitting her but she says we are fighting. He looked really lost and confused. I felt really bad for him, and just thought. Yep, you have lost, she is on a much different playing field than you are.
You have a point here, but also the body type that I am attracted to is more prevalent with younger women than older ones.
BINGO! So the real reason comes out. It's not because younger women are more "free-spirited" (because they aren't, trust me) but because they have less flawed bodies. Just be aware, if that's your priority, you'll likely be sacrificing something else. My ex married a woman 19 years younger than him, and yes, she has a less flawed body. She also tried to get my grown kids to play "punch-buggy" in the car, acts like a very young girl, isn't the strong independent highly accomplished and intelligent, caring woman he was previously married to. And as he is really starting to show his age and have some health problems as he approaches 60, I imagine he has to worry she might leave him for some younger, more virile guy. Just be careful what you wish for, ok?
On the same note: if you aren't going to date women who have kids because YOU have a kid, you'll end up dating women who WANT to have kids. Is that what you want? Are you willing to risk a young partner getting pregnant without your consent? Do you want to raise another child at this age? Are you willing to take on the problems with a step-parent who has never had kids second-guessing your parenting child? Again - just be careful what you wish for. A woman your age whose kids are grown might be a better partner than a young woman who still wants kids or someone who is childless by choice and doesn't really like being around your kid.
BINGO! So the real reason comes out. It's not because younger women are more "free-spirited" (because they aren't, trust me) but because they have less flawed bodies. Just be aware, if that's your priority, you'll likely be sacrificing something else.
I have never hidden the fact of the body type I like. any weight between 115 to 150 and height between 5 and 6ft tall. She could be 5ft tall and 150 and I wouldnt have an issue as long as i was attracted to her. Personality is important also. I like to go out and do things, hiking, dancing, live music, darts, bars, bike riding, and I dont have an issue doing it on a daily basis. Older women do. I dont even have a TV in the bedroom, because to me the bed is for either sleep or sex and nothing else.
I am also not looking for a woman to take care of me. Growing old is part of life. if you are worried about them leaving you just because one gets old, to me that is just plain silly. At any point one could have an accident that could leave them disabled. Just like if a man dates a younger woman and she gets disabled, he then has to make a choice whether he still wants to be with her or not.
On the same note: if you aren't going to date women who have kids because YOU have a kid, you'll end up dating women who WANT to have kids. Is that what you want? Are you willing to risk a young partner getting pregnant without your consent? Do you want to raise another child at this age? Are you willing to take on the problems with a step-parent who has never had kids second-guessing your parenting child? Again - just be careful what you wish for. A woman your age whose kids are grown might be a better partner than a young woman who still wants kids or someone who is childless by choice and doesn't really like being around your kid.
Main reason i dont date women with kids is not because I have a kid, its because I dont want to be a father figure to someone elses kid. Obviously there are some exceptions like in widows and such, but why should I raise a child when their father just chooses to not be around. I havent decided if I want more kids yet or not, but not all women want to have children. Most of these questions are things that only time will tell, because there is no sure answer to them yet. I plan on getting a vasectomy, so she wouldnt be able to get pregnant without my consent.
My Ex is actually a really good mother. I have no complaints in that area. So my daughter is not looking for a mother figure. I am also not looking to find her one. During dating I havent introduced my daughter to any woman and I wouldnt plan on it. Now if it turned into a LTR then I would consider it then and make an appropriate decision. But I havent run into a woman yet who says she hates kids. I also know that having a child automatically crosses me off of some ladies lists too.
The things I learn here. Punch Buggy - had to look it up. LMAO. Red pill Reddit - had no clue until juju brought it up.
More to the point, every R, every woman (man) is a sacrifice. No one person has it all. If you get too focused on the three or four things you think you really want and need you may get blindsided by the 20 or 30 you overlooked.
The things I learn here. Punch Buggy - had to look it up. LMAO. Red pill Reddit - had no clue until juju brought it up.
I know, right? I did know what punch buggy was and laughed out loud at the thought of a grown woman playing it, but was clueless on red pill reddit. So, so educational in so many ways.
Main reason i dont date women with kids is not because I have a kid, its because I dont want to be a father figure to someone elses kid. Obviously there are some exceptions like in widows and such, but why should I raise a child when their father just chooses to not be around. I havent decided if I want more kids yet or not, but not all women want to have children. Most of these questions are things that only time will tell, because there is no sure answer to them yet. I plan on getting a vasectomy, so she wouldnt be able to get pregnant without my consent.
My Ex is actually a really good mother. I have no complaints in that area. So my daughter is not looking for a mother figure. I am also not looking to find her one. During dating I havent introduced my daughter to any woman and I wouldnt plan on it. Now if it turned into a LTR then I would consider it then and make an appropriate decision. But I havent run into a woman yet who says she hates kids. I also know that having a child automatically crosses me off of some ladies lists too.
Interesting. I have never heard it quite explained that way. I am glad you added that these are questions that only time will tell because I think there is always the possibility that you might actually meet someone you like who does have kids. I'm also curious about something and I'm not trying to be argumentative or question your thoughts and opinions because those are yours, but what if the situation were reversed? What if you met a woman who you really liked, but who felt the same way you do about raising someone else's child/ren?
I understand your reasoning and am not questioning it, but if you happened to meet someone you hit it off with who had kids, would that be a deal breaker for you?
I can't speak for all women but for me, I never necessarily shied away from dating men with kids but I also didn't necessarily seek them out. I wanted to be a mom when I was younger, but I never got the opportunity for a variety of reasons. When my XH came along, I knew on the front end he had daughters and before we even got super serious, we had a LOT of discussions about kids. I was willing to be a part of his life and theirs. I didn't want to raise them in place of their mother, but I did want to be in their life in a step-parent role and despite a lot of negative press about step-parent/child relationships, for me, it has been extremely rewarding. I realize that everyone is different and that is not everyone's feeling. I also realize that because I have never actually given birth to a child, I likely view parenting/motherhood a little differently.
By the way, since this is the first time I have commented, I will say, I like that you started this. I think it is nice to have a place where we can learn from each other without anyone taking offense. I don't take anything I read personally, even if I don't agree with it at all. So, thanks!
Andrew,
I am not sure if it is a generational thing or just how someone structures their values. I am 37 and I would be in a similar boat to you. I could not imagine sex with a woman unless we were exclusive and we were committed. I was always raised with relationships being developed on love first sex later. Maybe that makes me old fashioned too. It does concern me that those values will be a hurdle for women in my dating age range.
Yeah this would definately be a hurdle with me. Sex and love are different in my book. Maybe its because i am a libra, maybe not, but I think of sex as more fun, exercise and experimentation between two people. Not necessarily an emotional attachment. If a woman told me that she wanted to wait to have sex until after a committed relationship, I would say thats nice, but let me ask you this. What if I told you I was unemployed and didnt plan on working until I was in a committed relationship. ( its a good example from a book i read) Would you still want to date me also?
Yes I understand what you are saying hence the hurdle. Should I give up on my values because they don't align with the majority of modern society? I think a person has to have their core values/morals/code whatever you want to call it and they should stick to it. For me it helps define who I am, it drives me on my mission through life. If this results in me being single for life? I guess so be it. Some people get through life by being flexible and moving around barriers and others by smashing through them.
The other issue is that my mindset probably works really well for the christian lady who wants to wait till marriage, and I would want to stay away from that. LTR yes marriage no, I am one and done.
Also I don't know much about zodiac signs, so what does it mean for you to be a libra? I see sex being what you describe, but also as a raw emotional connection and expression of love. Nothing I feel like sharing with just anybody.
I did want to be in their life in a step-parent role and despite a lot of negative press about step-parent/child relationships, for me, it has been extremely rewarding.
Free cleaning staff is a bonus although those darned woodland creatures never seem to fold the napkins quite right
What if you met a woman who you really liked, but who felt the same way you do about raising someone else's child/ren?
That is her choice and It would suck but I can live with it. But I am also not asking for someone to raise my child, I wouldnt fault her for having those feelings, I just know that it would be casual thing, and nothing more.
I understand your reasoning and am not questioning it, but if you happened to meet someone you hit it off with who had kids, would that be a deal breaker for you?
It would not be a deal breaker for me, but it also depends on where I am currently at in my life. Also depends on what she was currently looking for. I am open to LTR relationship, but I am not going to hurry and jump into that situation either. I would be very concerned if she wanted to introduce me to her kids early on also.
Also I don't know much about zodiac signs, so what does it mean for you to be a libra? I see sex being what you describe, but also as a raw emotional connection and expression of love. Nothing I feel like sharing with just anybody.
need to be more specific, libras in sex/relationships/love
It would not be a deal breaker for me, but it also depends on where I am currently at in my life. Also depends on what she was currently looking for. I am open to LTR relationship, but I am not going to hurry and jump into that situation either. I would be very concerned if she wanted to introduce me to her kids early on also.
Makes sense. Introducing kids too early would be a big red flag for me too. It's a little different in my case where my kids are adults, but I also have grandkids to factor into the mix (they are little ones, ages 2-5). In addition, I have a niece and 2 nephews who are all teenagers and I'm VERY close with them so I think of them like my own kids and treat them as such. I didn't introduce any of those people to Sparky until we had already begun to discuss marriage. Now, he obviously knew about them but he didn't meet them until we were pretty definite on where this was headed. I went out with a guy a few times who pressed me on date 3 to meet my kids. Um, no. No thank you!
I think the thing is, though, that not everyone who is out there dating is looking to raise someone else's kid. And, just because you are dating someone, that doesn't mean you are asking them to raise yours. What about your XW? If she dates, gets serious with someone and introduces your child, is that going to bother you? Are you going to see that as someone else being a father figure for your kid? I guess I'm trying to understand where that link is because if you are just dating someone, I'm not sure why you would assume they would want you to be a father figure. Or why you would think that they'd assume that they were going to be a mother figure to your child. I realize that some of these are things that you might not even be able to respond to because as you already pointed out, it depends on the situation and exactly what is going on. I'm just trying to understand your point of view a little better because it is interesting to me. I was open to dating a man with kids and I married someone who already had kids but I was clear all along that while I loved the girls, they HAVE a mother and that mother is not me. Now, yes, I did play a parental role in that they did live in our house and I helped provide for them and guide them with advice and the occasional correction when necessary (though they were teenagers and really good girls to boot, so not a lot of correction needed), but I never ever thought their dad was trying to replace their mom with me and I never tried to replace their mom and I even went out of my way on many occasions to make sure that they maintained a relationship with their mom even when I personally didn't think she deserved to have one with them because of the way she treated them. Now, I can say here, I think she's the biggest b!tch to ever have walked this green earth, but to the girls, they, to this day, think that I like their mom because I never ever said a single negative thing about her and when they would talk negative about her to me, I would defend her. Whatever I may think of her, she is their mother and you only get one mother and one father in this life and it isn't my place to replace anyone's. I never asked the girls to call me mom. Sparky has a daughter that is also already an adult (21) and I look forward to having a relationship with her, but just like my other daughters, I will not expect her to call me mom. I'm just "Dawn". She has a mother and none of us want me to replace her. By the same token, I want Sparky to enjoy a nice relationship with my daughters, but he is not dad. He is just "Sparky". I'm really not trying to belabor a point or anything, just trying to see another viewpoint. I think that my view is often a little off from most on the board because a lot of folks like yourself, J9, Ginger are all dealing with little kids while my youngest is 25. So, I'm in the same boat with Andrew and maybe kml and maybe one or 2 others who have adult "kids" so the dynamic is very different. I'm also in a different mindset because as much as I love the girls, I did not give birth to them, so there may be a different feeling when the kid(s) is of your own flesh and blood as opposed to just being a step-parent. Though I will say, it does piss me off to now end when I hear people downgrading step-parents as "JUST" step-parents because I can assure you, in our family, I was there a WHOLE lot more for my 3 daughters than their mother ever thought about being because she was too busy off chasing her married boyfriend and trying to catch him to pay attention to what her teenage daughters were going through and needing advice on. But, I'll get off my soapbox and stop hogging your thread with stories about the wicked witch of Western Arkansas.
What about your XW? If she dates, gets serious with someone and introduces your child, is that going to bother you? Are you going to see that as someone else being a father figure for your kid? I guess I'm trying to understand where that link is because if you are just dating someone, I'm not sure why you would assume they would want you to be a father figure. Or why you would think that they'd assume that they were going to be a mother figure to your child. I realize that some of these are things that you might not even be able to respond to because as you already pointed out, it depends on the situation and exactly what is going on. I'm just trying to understand your point of view a little better because it is interesting to me. I was open to dating a man with kids and I married someone who already had kids but I was clear all along that while I loved the girls, they HAVE a mother and that mother is not me. Now, yes, I did play a parental role in that they did live in our house and I helped provide for them and guide them with advice and the occasional correction when necessary (though they were teenagers and really good girls to boot, so not a lot of correction needed), but I never ever thought their dad was trying to replace their mom with me and I never tried to replace their mom and I even went out of my way on many occasions to make sure that they maintained a relationship with their mom even when I personally didn't think she deserved to have one with them because of the way she treated them. Now, I can say here, I think she's the biggest b!tch to ever have walked this green earth, but to the girls, they, to this day, think that I like their mom because I never ever said a single negative thing about her and when they would talk negative about her to me, I would defend her. Whatever I may think of her, she is their mother and you only get one mother and one father in this life and it isn't my place to replace anyone's. I never asked the girls to call me mom. Sparky has a daughter that is also already an adult (21) and I look forward to having a relationship with her, but just like my other daughters, I will not expect her to call me mom. I'm just "Dawn". She has a mother and none of us want me to replace her. By the same token, I want Sparky to enjoy a nice relationship with my daughters, but he is not dad. He is just "Sparky". I'm really not trying to belabor a point or anything, just trying to see another viewpoint. I think that my view is often a little off from most on the board because a lot of folks like yourself, J9, Ginger are all dealing with little kids while my youngest is 25. So, I'm in the same boat with Andrew and maybe kml and maybe one or 2 others who have adult "kids" so the dynamic is very different. I'm also in a different mindset because as much as I love the girls, I did not give birth to them, so there may be a different feeling when the kid(s) is of your own flesh and blood as opposed to just being a step-parent. Though I will say, it does piss me off to now end when I hear people downgrading step-parents as "JUST" step-parents because I can assure you, in our family, I was there a WHOLE lot more for my 3 daughters than their mother ever thought about being because she was too busy off chasing her married boyfriend and trying to catch him to pay attention to what her teenage daughters were going through and needing advice on. But, I'll get off my soapbox and stop hogging your thread with stories about the wicked witch of Western Arkansas.
Well I can answer this since it has already happened. She is serious with someone and says she is in love, but doesnt plan on getting married. To me her saying this doesnt mean squat cuz at one point she said she loved me to, so I will let him deal with her issues. Same guy that she left me for and has introduced my daughter to him. He was going through a divorce when my wife decided to leave me. At first i didnt like it, but nothing i can do about it. I find it curious that my daughter still thinks we are going to get back together. Who knows in the future we might, but i will never marry her again. All I can hope for is that he is a good example for her, but I doubt that because of how he acts so timid and beta, according to my ex. It doesnt bother me though because I am involved in her life and she knows I am her father. As a man I have no respect for him because since he was going through a divorce, how could you put another man through the same dilemma. I guess that is my morals though. As for future men in her life, its going to happen, and I come to the fact that if someone should abuse her, I will put the blame solely on her.
So I have read in a few posts about this "coach" guy. I think it may be corey wayne, and if not I apologize. He offers some good advice, from what I read on the posts. I have not read his book, but if he supports trying to win the lady back I totally disagree with this notion unless it is a marriage. There are too many women out there to try to win back the respect of a woman who disrespected you. Sometimes the women are broken, and other times the man made the mistake of making the woman their primary focus, or being too available to her. Either way I believe the man should learn from his experience and move on.
The coach would say walk away and never look back and if she ever calls again hang out, have fun, and hook up. Assume she wants to see you and make a date
The coach would say walk away and never look back and if she ever calls again hang out, have fun, and hook up. Assume she wants to see you and make a date
I would do this, and if she makes contact again my date would be a come over for dinner and bring some wine, or netflix and chill. Point being is I wouldnt want her to use me for validation, and make my intentions overt so I am not wasting my time. Time is a valuable commodity and no point in wasting it on people, who are just looking for validation or an orbiter.
Interesting topic on another thread that probably belongs here. So I am wondering... how important do ya'll feel sex is as part of a long term relationship, on a scale of 1-10?? (10 being super important).
For me, now I would say 8-9. BUT the interesting thing is that if you had asked me that same question 4-5 years ago, I would have said a 4-5. I guess I understand things a bit better now and there was obviously something lacking in the intimate department with XW. That was at least 50% my fault, probably more. But I also didn't think there was anything wrong with it at the time. I just thought it is what it is. But looking back I see. I guess now I realize that after the initial infatuation is over, the couple needs to have that intimate connection in order for there to be meaningful sex. The sex part is almost a barometer for how the relationship is going. I never understood that oddly enough.
Totally agree Pinn. That was a huge problem in my MR in the last half. As soon as my H started checking out, the intimacy went downhill. I think it was a classic men from Mars, women from Venus scenario. I needed to feel close to him emotionally to want to have sex and needed to have sex in order to feel close to me emotionallly. The adjustment to having twins was a really tough one on us. I was super exhausted much of the time.... working fulll time, commuting, housework, etc... My H and I should have made date nights a priority and talked more. HIndsight is always 20/20 though. It is the one thing I have had a tough time forgiving myself for.
(((DV6)))
We made date night a pretty strong priority. W would tell me about how a former co-worker of hers and her husband didn’t make date night a priority, and it let to serious problems...and she didn’t want to end up like them.
Welp.
Basically, for the last year, since initial ILYBINILWY BD and going forward, date night hasn’t been a thing for us. I’m sure the pregnancy had at least something to do with it, maybe. And sex? Hasn’t been a thing since November—so, about 3 and a half months.
In response to pinn’s question—I would say between 7-8.
Now, W and I have had some issues with respect to sexual compatibility—she was the higher desire spouse, at least until recently. I have my own things to work through with respect to sex—for me, being more open was part of the 180’s I started a year ago. I’ve mentioned this on my thread, but in the event that W and I end up D’ing, I’ll have to think long and hard about what I want from a partner, especially about sex.
I realize I’m saying this now, and it could always change, but for me, though—I would probably want to wait until remarriage for sex, not just for a LTR, and I’m really not into hooking up / casual sex. I know that this could seriously limit my options in the dating pool, but I also realize that it could save me a lot of trouble, too (potential pregnancies, emotional / physical attachment issues, don’t want to worry about my partner being ‘clean’ in terms of disease, etc.)
I know in my thread I’ve talked about missing intimacy / sex, and I’ve mentioned before that sometimes I just really want sex and to be desired, but I’m taking that for what it was—‘pangs’ of desire that ebb and flow, and have been fading overall in general. In some respects, it’s more missing what I used to have with W (like what AS said on my thread).
If W and I end up D’ing, I would want to be really careful about who I give myself to—emotionally, and sexually. I’m sure it would be really rough and I’d probably hate it and hate myself for it at times, but honestly, I would consider waiting for remarriage if it comes down to it.
Bo... Men like you are rare in this day and age. My whole life I have been in long term relationships with the exception of a few guys I dated between my XH and my H so casual sex was never really a thing for me either. I think it is important for you to be true to yourself and to your values. The right person will appreciate that about you. Regardless of what happens with your W, I think you will be AOK.
Interesting Bo... I am actually kind of like you. Though I am muuuccchhhhh further along than you, and it is super frustrating at times, I have not been the casual sex kind of guy. Will that change... who knows, but for now, that's the way it is and it's ok... i guess haha! I wouldn't wait for remarriage though.
I am wondering if anyone thinks sex is less a 7 in importance on that scale. And I would understand because I used to feel that way because I guess I did not know better. I do look forward to being super compatible with someone in the future on multiple levels.
My opinion. You need to find someone that has the same level of sex drive that you do. If you want to have sex every day your partner does not then that wont work....the same vice versa. IF you are happy waiting until marriage and your partner wants to have sex on date 4...eventually that person will get frustrated.
For me...….I would like to have sex every day or at minimum every other day. I know to fill that desire I will need to find a partner that wants the same. My xw and I had mismatched sex drives or at least (with me) she didn't want to have sex more than once a week. I wanted it more, squashed my desires, and I know I got frustrated with it over time.
If it is a 8 for you and 2 for your partner no go. Vice versa.
I guess I was referring more to quality over frequency. If the two aren’t on the same page for frequency then yes, game over. However, for me I’d take meaningful encounters every two weeks or even longer over meaningless sex every other day. I think pseudo scheduled sex is probably even worse than no sex at all in a LTR or marriage. Again, that’s just from experience and I didn’t realize it before. I’ll never pressure a partner for sex unless she is totally into it.
I'd say it's an 8 for me. 2-3 times a week was steady throughout my long marriage. More at times. It's not the only thing - I'm a physical touch love language person, I could make do with less sex if my partner is generous with physical touch at other times. I don't feel like my sexual drive is any less now in my 60's than it was in my 20's.
It makes me sad when people just accept that sex is supposed to fall off after you've been in a relationship for years. That has not been my experience.
As for the whole discussion of "casual" versus committed sex - I guess it depends on your definitions. Meaningless sex with someone you don't know - yuck. Friendly sex with someone you genuinely care for but have accepted can never be more than that because of their issues can be lovely IF you're both on the same page. Unrequited sex or sex with someone who isn't as I to it as you - yuck.
As for waiting until marriage to have sex - well, I don't desire to get married again, but if I did, I'd sure want to have sex beforehand. I couldn't make a valid decision about spending my life with a guy without knowing if the sex was going to be any good, or if we were going to be compatible on frequency.
Glad you moved this topic here Pinn - this way it's not on any one person's thread so no one has to feel like it's about them or it's opportunistic picking upon/on.
As soon as I read the question and before seeing the other responses, 8 popped into my head for me. It was interesting to see others were in that same 7 to 9 range. Just as interesting if not more so was that many said during their M's it dropped closer to a 4 or a 5. THIS is exactly what I was trying to point out when this topic started up elsewhere. It's interesting to see how things get to a 4 or 5 even with people that otherwise think they are in the 7 to 9 range. That is again what I was trying to get at yesterday.
However, my larger point, that may not have come through well, is that if we start out at a 4 or 5 now - with sort of a take it or leave, yeah I guess I could take it if the other person wants it - type of attitude, will that 4-5 drop to a 1-2 after years of M?
Like some of you have already stated, I too thought sex was of less important - I was clearly wrong. I've since taken notice by so so so many "experts" of how important sex is within a M. Like I think Ginger may have said on the other thread, it's as much a barometer of other aspects of the M. Also like she said, it's very much a factor of the other person. I can tell you I have functioned very well all over the scale (my partners may have functioned less so) but I often have taken the lead from them. My latest encounter was extremely high on the sex scale and I went right there with her. The woman I dated in Fall (although probably not long enough to really tell) seemed much lower - and I too followed that lead. What trumps them all, however, is the physical touch and non-sexual "intimacy" that the other person provides, if that makes sense.
I'm getting close to rambling so I'd better stop while I'm ahead, but not before one questions:
If it is a 8 for you and 2 for your partner no go. Vice versa.
While very true, I have to wonder, is it "normal" for someone in an otherwise healthy R to be at a 2? Let's take the stawman stuff out of it like wheel-chair-bound individuals, etc. Again, Ginger said she thought she hated sex when it was with her exH - she may have been that 2 we are talking about. She's now clearly at least an 8 (LOL) so in her case it was not "normal" to be at a 2. I submit the same thing with pain during sex - yes there could be physcial causes but it's amazing how that pain goes away when her partner goes away. And I could give dozens of other examples - I'm not trying to tie this to any specific sitch.
So, is it "normal" to be at a 2?
I'll bring this over here
My ex was my first and we were in our 20's. I did not like sex. I tried to avoid it and I did my twice "obligation" I thought there was something wrong with me. I was a healthy woman in her 20's and should have been truly enjoying it. When I got divorced and began having sex with other guys I was like "holy sh!t sex is GREAT" It was my ex, that's why I didn't like it. He is mean and critical and I couldn't get comfortable in bed with him. He cared only about his sexual needs, and never about mine. When he was done (usually in 2 minutes) he was done. Never spoke openly about sex, things we might like to try, what I might like, if I got mine (which I NEVER did). When I was able to be more open, and comfortably myself and had considerate partners, I wanted to give as much as I wanted to get. M and I have a GREAT sex life. (sorry TMI) he turns me on physically, mentally and emotionally. He is very giving and we have an amazing chemistry.
And I will speak to what Don said about even the "pain" for a woman during sex. Someone close to me used to think she had no sex drive and it hurt. Then she began an A and with that man, no more pain and she really enjoys sex. Her M has been bad since the beginning and she had no attraction to her H for many reasons. Happened to someone else I know too.
So I really don't believe there are many people who really don't have a decent sex drive. I think it is more to do with who you are having sex with and the underlying causes.
So I really don't believe there are many people who really don't have a decent sex drive. I think it is more to do with who you are having sex with and the underlying causes.
I have to wonder if this is me, and describes something about me and my sitch, if I’m being honest.
That maybe I’m truly not as attracted to W as I thought I was or hoped to be. And maybe our attitudes about sex / sexuality contributed to that—that maybe mentally / emotionally / spiritually W and I weren’t on the same wavelength for our attitudes about sex, and it spilled over into the lived experience and physical aspects.
I do agree that if one partner is an ‘8’ and the other is a ‘2,’ then obviously it’s not going to work at all. The partners / spouses should be rather similar in terms of sex drive.
So, is it "normal" to be at a 2?
Honey, "normal" is just a setting on a dryer. Who is to say what is normal? I think that everyone has tap danced around it in their responses and everyone is quick to say oh I'm a 7, 8, 9, whatever, but in all reality, regardless of what "experts" say, some people are at the lower end of the scale and whatever the reason is, it is THEIR reason. Maybe psychological, maybe physical, whatever. It isn't anyone else's place to say that someone "should" be a certain level.
Having said all that, I do agree with the consensus of most that you need to be with someone who matches your level. If you are an 8, you don't want to be with a 2 and vice versa. I think that those numbers can fluctuate and be situational as well. Just because someone is a 2 today doesn't mean that they can't climb to an 8 in the right circumstances.
Following my divorce, I would have considered myself on a negative scale where sex was concerned, if that was even possible. I didn't want to see, touch, be with a man in any sense of the word. Just wasn't where my head was. It took me a year to get past that and then I was back to MY normal. I also went through a time in my M where I was pretty low on the scale because my husband was having a health crisis and it was all about getting him out of the woods and surviving and back on his feet, eventually. It is hard to think about sexy things when you are playing nurse and dressing open wounds left from botched surgeries and that sort of thing. In the moment, I was at a 1 or 2 on my best day, but once all that was behind us, I again, got back to what was normal for me.
I'm not saying that there isn't merit to what the experts say about sexless marriages being detrimental, but what I am saying is that people do naturally have different sex drives and those drives are fueled by MANY different factors so for anyone to say what is "normal" is kind of a moot point because one person's normal may be another's dud.
Honey, "normal" is just a setting on a dryer.
My dryer has a "wrinkle release" setting
Although I stand by the term normal, perhaps healthy is a better term but I think they both apply...
- is it "normal" to drink alcohol all day everyday?
- is it "normal" to lay in bed all day and rarely get out?
- is it "normal" to lust sexually after children?
- is it normal to never bathe or take a shower?
Or swap out is it healthy to do these things? I don't think we get to decide they are normal or healthy for us when society says otherwise. In these cases normal is way more than a setting on a machine and I think it's fine for us to decide that and fir others to decide it as well.
But use healthy if it makes you feel better... Is it healthy to have a sex drive of a 2.
Good topic. I'm probably a 6 or 7.
I've read (and seen plenty of anecdotal evidence) that men generally have a higher drive than women. Hence the old joke, "not tonight honey, I've got a headache".
Granted, there are some women that have higher drives, but by and large I think most men end up getting frustrated in Rs when it comes to the amount of sex.
In my M I was always the higher drive partner, except for the first couple of months of dating. Once she "had me", the sex quickly tapered off. At first, I wanted it every day, but would only get it maybe twice a week (this was especially annoying on the honeymoon). Then I started getting it once a week. Then twice a month. Then only once, when she was ovulating. That was the point where I threw in the towel on even trying - my self-confidence was completely destroyed. After that, it happened every 3 months, until BD. Looking back, I can see how this was the canary in the coal mine. The sex (and especially the woman's desire to have it) is true indicator of a R's health.
But if I go into a future R and lay out my twice-a-week expectation, I suspect I'll be a very lonely dude.
I think on that scale the importance of sex in a R is a 9 or 10 for me. I see it as one of the best ways to show love, emotional bond, and share that intimacy and connection. It's just how I am wired. Now for XW it was much lower on the scale, and always has been. I had clues of this before marriage, but when you value waiting till marriage there are consequences to upholding those values. In as far as frequency goes I had to lower my expectations and she had to increase her willingness and we had to meet somewhere in the middle. Its not a show stopper however with anything involving 2 parties there is always a compromise/workaround. However, I must say due the difference in our drives and my XW being a taker and not a giver, I began to develop covert contracts for sex. It caused problems, but it wasn't what caused the downfall of our MR.
I am also reading what some of you are saying about sex and the woman having lower drive or pain due to problems in the MR, love, feeling safe, etc. Sometimes I am sure that is the case and sometimes it is not. My XW had some pain related issues that appeared to be hereditary and sought help from her OB/GYN on the issue. Some of this was an issue even before sex with just lady Dr. visits causing pain/problems. For XW the sex related pain really didn't go away until after the birth of our first child. Some of her issues were also HUGE mental hangups. So big of mental hangups I often wondered if something happened to her as a child/teenager. These hangups extended beyond just sex to feminine issues that occurred up to BD, but beyond I don't know anymore. So maybe it was me and maybe with a new partner her scale will ramp up, but I kind of doubt it since some of her problems extended beyond sex.
So like everyone here I think valuing sex in a R on the same level (both in frequency and quality), is important. I do wonder if one values more or less than the other is that a no go or if both of you are willing to be complementary and compromise does that work as well?
Honey, "normal" is just a setting on a dryer.
Lol so true! I hope nobody out there is comparing themselves negatively to some of the numbers thrown about here because EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. And there are so many things that go into libido - emotional, physical, hormonal, cultural. I think it's just important to find a partner with a similar drive and make an effort to accomodate your differences.
Honey, "normal" is just a setting on a dryer.
Lol so true! I hope nobody out there is comparing themselves negatively to some of the numbers thrown about here because EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. And there are so many things that go into libido - emotional, physical, hormonal, cultural. I think it's just important to find a partner with a similar drive and make an effort to accomodate your differences.
EXACTLY my point, kml! Thank you for summing it up so much better than I even got it out there to start with.
Ahhh I think I didn’t properly wordmy question or thoughts... per usual. So let me reframe to try and get to the point I meant to. My initial question had nothing to do with frequency. I said it was an 8 for me on the important scale but I would be more than happy with meaningful encounters every two weeks vs meangingless ones everyday. Of course when you look at like that, everyone will rate sex high right? But in my marriage I didn’t, for whatever reason, I said it is what it is and other things make up for it. Again, nothing to do with frequency and I didn’t even think it was a problem until I look back.
So how important is ‘chemistry’? Is it even a thing? Or is ‘chemistry’ simply a marker of the state of your relationship and how things are going in your lives?? Can you have a lasting romantic relationship with little sexual chemistry?? It’s hard for me to answer this because I was with more or less with one person for 20 years so I don’t know much different. Does ‘chemistry’ go away with time??
Obviously I got the ‘chemistry’ talk on BD haha! But I am genuinely curious.
"Chemistry" can be looked at a few ways.
First, of course, is infatuation - which does not last. Infatuation is that initial drug-like "high" of a new relationship. This is why one should usually wait until you've known someone a couple of years to marry - it can take that long for infatuation to wear off and for you to see the real person.
Sexual chemistry - is usually a combination of infatuation and pheromones. It can be lost but it's hard to manufacture - that is, if you're dating someone that you feel no sexual attraction to, it seldom develops.
In a good relationship, the initial infatuation is replaced with a deeper, warmer love and sexuality can become even better through more intimate knowledge of your partner.
In all too many relationships though it seems that infatuation wears off, that deeper love doesn't really take its place or sex is neglected, then the couple ends up in a sexless marriage.
Bear in mind though - when most WASs say they've lost "chemistry" with their spouse, it usually just means they are temporarily befuddled by that "high" of infatuation with a new partner.
I’m agreeing with the sex is the perfect barometer theory. If all is good in a relationship, needs are met, I feel appreciated, cherished, etc. I’m gonna want to have more sex. If I feel resentful or if I notice decreased effort being put in to me or the relationship I’m not gonna feel as connected and I’m not gonna want sex as much. I don’t think it’s a physical difference in desire as I’m still gonna fantasize. But probably not about my partner.
You guys can increase the chemistry by making your partner feel physically desired...not just oh, it’s the morning I’ve got a h on.. but a being obviously turned on by something she did or is wearing or saying. flirting with her. Making her feel likes she’s irresistible. Building up the sexual tension throughout the day so she has to think about it let her catch you looking at cleavage or bending over etc. Irs a look of desire.
You also need to maintain chemistry by emotionally connecting with her. Or helping her. If she’s overwhelmed offer to help. It requires daily effort not just the effort you put in early in the relationship.
I wanted to fire this thread up some more for discussion and to learn from all you experienced folks.
I don't know from the post-D woman's perspective, but from the post-D man's view do the women just start coming out of the woodwork or is did I just have the husband blinders on before? At times I feel like chum in shark infested water, and this is a very new feeling I am not used to.
Here is something else... When XW moved out I figured I would keep putting in the work on myself then when D came around I could start dating. Post-D people here said slow your roll which I agree with. I am not ready, I still have very quiet feelings for XW that come and go at times. However, I am starting to just feel "meh" about all this potential dating and intimate R in general. Did this happen to anyone? I mean I have already had the opportunity to date a few women without even trying, but as I alluded to I am not ready. I just haven't been feeling the interest in dating even though the women are very interesting. The initial excitement in the idea of it all is just gone.
Some aspects of life from a post-D lens just isn't that great anymore. Maybe I am being naive.
However, I am starting to just feel "meh" about all this potential dating and intimate R in general. Did this happen to anyone? I mean I have already had the opportunity to date a few women without even trying, but as I alluded to I am not ready. I just haven't been feeling the interest in dating even though the women are very interesting. The initial excitement in the idea of it all is just gone.
Some aspects of life from a post-D lens just isn't that great anymore. Maybe I am being naive.
Yea man this is what I was talking about in my thread. I have the same feeling and I don’t understand it. In my case especially, I would really like a family. Well times a ticking and yet I don’t do anything about it... bizarre. In my case there no feelings about XW involved but still... nada. I know I could have many dates with some effort but... I dunno.
Depression - an understandable side effect of being a LBS - puts a big damper on libido and general enjoyment of things. If you're feeling "meh" about dating, evaluate whether you might be depressed.
If not, then it just might be an unwillingness to be vulnerable again.
In my case, I will definitely say that having a healthy libido was a driving factor in getting me out there dating.
As for the question of people coming out of the woodwork - well, for me as a woman in her 50's when my ex left, it wasn't exactly like that - BUT - I did notice men more and as a result, they seemed to notice me more. I think when I was married I just didn't look at other men and must not have given off any vibe of being available.
I don't know about Pinn, but I don't believe its depression. I'm in IC I think they would have picked up on that. My life has been pretty good post-D and on the up and up in the near future. I wonder if it's my own personal sitch, and having my core values rocked that has me slowly getting jaded. I know my core beliefs have changed drastically since BD. kml maybe it's like you said and I am just unwilling to be vulnerable and building unconscious walls.
Depression - an understandable side effect of being a LBS - puts a big damper on libido and general enjoyment of things. If you're feeling "meh" about dating, evaluate whether you might be depressed.
If not, then it just might be an unwillingness to be vulnerable again.
I think for me it is more the latter. I certainly do not feel depressed. There are ups and downs of course but, for the most part, I feel pretty good.
I don't feel like it is a libido issue. I am definitely frustrated if you catch my drift but don't feel like just going out to hook up right now. That's not even really me actually.
P....I remember when I first started dating I was all excited then I guess maybe reality set in or who knows what but now it has changed for me. I don’t feel that I am depressed, maybe not completely over my D, maybe afraid to be vulnerable again, I don’t know. I am coming up on 1 yr of it being final and 2 years since my Xw left. I feel the engine starting to fire at times but at other times it doesn’t. I guess just be patient with yourself.
I don't know from the post-D woman's perspective, but from the post-D man's view do the women just start coming out of the woodwork or is did I just have the husband blinders on before? At times I feel like chum in shark infested water, and this is a very new feeling I am not used to.
Yes there is no question about it. I have been propositioned by several under sexed middle age married women. I have always gotten attention from women but nothing like I get now. I have had 3 no strings attached encounters in the last 7 months.
However, I am starting to just feel "meh" about all this potential dating and intimate R in general. Did this happen to anyone? I mean I have already had the opportunity to date a few women without even trying, but as I alluded to I am not ready. I just haven't been feeling the interest in dating even though the women are very interesting. The initial excitement in the idea of it all is just gone.
TF, you have to give yourself a break, less then six months ago you were happily married (in your mind). Dating after D goes through stages. At first it OLD is really exciting you are like a kid in a candy store. Then reality sets in and you realize that it is not like ordering out of a catalog. There is a lot of deceit where people are not who they advertise, ghosting and sometimes if everything checks out there is no connection. I live in the east so in January and February I was like it's too cold I don't feel like going out in the cold to meet someone who may or may not look like their pictures. I have been on 13 OLD dates and only wanted a second date once. I am not sure if I am too picky, if I am not ready for a commitment or am just happy being alone.
Some aspects of life from a post-D lens just isn't that great anymore. Maybe I am being naive.
Listen you went from BD to D Han Solo in the Millennium Falcon style. Life after D is 1,000 times better then being in limbo and living with a person that wants out.
I have had 3 no strings attached encounters in the last 7 months.
PLAYA!!!!!!!!!
Just to clarify only one was married but separated for a year.
PLAYA PLAYA!!!!!! The international man of love!!!!
Trying to catch up with you. I slept with a PhD but not a MD lol.
LH,
You need to start a thread. I bet it would be just as popcorn worthy as the adventures of J9 aka the big smoothie.
P....I remember when I first started dating I was all excited then I guess maybe reality set in or who knows what but now it has changed for me. I don’t feel that I am depressed, maybe not completely over my D, maybe afraid to be vulnerable again, I don’t know. I am coming up on 1 yr of it being final and 2 years since my Xw left. I feel the engine starting to fire at times but at other times it doesn’t. I guess just be patient with yourself.
TBSakaJ9,
There was a psychology study that was done a long time ago; they found that, when people are presented with lots of choices, they often have difficulty making a decision and flounder in the sea of options. I think OLD is kind of like that. OLD provides a never-ending supply of options and that can lead to burnout. Maybe it's a good time to take a break and do some GAL instead. Who knows, you might meet someone you like whilst enjoying the activities you like.
I know I will think about it. I'm really on here to help the newbies. I just started coming over here once the Big Smooth landed here.
Tread lightly Pitbull...…….
I know. I don't need Donny H, Andy P and the girls up my rear end every time something is taken out of context.
LOL......you definitely don't want Donny D on the back up after you
As long as you follow the hierarchy around here you should be fine...……..
I know. I don't need Donny H, Andy P and the girls up my rear end every time something is taken out of context.
Yeah - those jokers need to lighten up once in a while
I remember when I first started dating I was all excited then I guess maybe reality set in or who knows what but now it has changed for me. I don’t feel that I am depressed, maybe not completely over my D, maybe afraid to be vulnerable again, I don’t know.
Under the heading of "me too" well, it's a different kind of me too but still... don't feel alone in this as it's pretty much how I felt way back when. About the only reason why that I could rule out was the not over my D as I fully was by the time I finally started dating, but remember with me it was nearly three years later. When you first start out, you think it will be like it was when you were younger - much younger. It was way more fun, seemed easier, for sure less baggage. Then you add in OLD and think, oh wow this will have to make it even easier... but reality then sets in and you find out dating is much harder than it used to be and OLD may even be making it worse not better. I can't tell you why you are feeling like you are, just know many others have gone through the exact same thing.
I have been on 13 OLD dates and only wanted a second date once. I am not sure if I am too picky, if I am not ready for a commitment or am just happy being alone.
And once again, "Me Too!" I've not been on 13 OLD in the same time span that you have but did at least that many over time and only wanted a second date with two and did the second date with one - which then became a third and fourth before it fizzled. I know I'm too picky but I'm not changing that - and my too picky is not at all just based on looks. I want it all. I'm more ready for a commitment than I was but still not out looking for it. I'm very happy being alone - most of the time.
There are those who talk themselves into falling for the first person they date. That's clearly not the three of us - and I maintain that's healthy. Some people seem to be able to overlook all sorts of things that we can't. Show up looking 20 years older than your photos and we'd say "no F'ing way" while others say, "Oh, it's okay." Still married and working on the D, I'd say no way, others are okay with it. Sometimes I wish I could be that way, but I can't and flaws and all, I'm still very happy with who I am. I think you guys are in that same category as well - which is again, why we might be in the same camp.
As for you Jospeh, I have some thoughts on what may be going on with you but I'll save them for your thread.
LH,You need to start a thread.
I've been trying to tell him that for a long time now but all I get is one flimsy excuse after another. It takes a special kinda guy to put yourself out there like that. Ba Ha Ha Ha
To bring this thread back. This weekend I started talking to this girl on Match and she came out and said she’s a WAW and she had wanted out for 5 years but waited for her daughter to graduate from school. Her words “ I usually don’t put my happiness first but I’m learning”.
Not sure how I feel about dating a self proclaimed WAW.
She’s your type Smoothe. Blonde, fit and tatas TIL Tuesday lol.
You know what my vote would be.
The dr is 5'8 fit no kids and dark hair like Demi Moore so I am getting there!
To bring this thread back. This weekend I started talking to this girl on Match and she came out and said she’s a WAW and she had wanted out for 5 years but waited for her daughter to graduate from school. Her words “ I usually don’t put my happiness first but I’m learning”.
Not sure how I feel about dating a self proclaimed WAW.
Well I guess she at least waited until the kids were out of the house. I think unless things have changed my X-SIL will end up doing this to her H. Poor guy probably has no clue.
I wouldn't be a fan of the WAW, and you obviously need to be on high alert for the red flags. Did she WAW cause the H was abusive or an alcoholic or just gave up on life??? Did she WAW because she was being selfish, emotionally regressing and typically symptoms of some of the WAW on here?
If your spidey senses are tingling just eject. Just my 2 cents.
Ironic, this is what my exW did. In fact we held the high school grad party for son on Saturday and she dropped the bomb on Monday. Can't be more clear about it than that.
BS Gawd I hope you're kidding and think in some part you are but know that you're really not - being hot is #1 with you - that's very clear and actually is okay - as long as you don't chose a long term partner using that metric.
The dr is 5'8 fit no kids and dark hair like Demi Moore so I am getting there!
No kids? I thought she had a son.
Oh yes she has a son that's 7....duh.
Oh yes she has a son that's 7....duh.
Lol.....I thought I had missed a new woman or something there for a minute.
So, you give a WAW a chance if she is hot, but not if she isn’t?
I’m sorry, but that’s shallow. You will look over something you normally perceive as a moral flaw for physical attractiveness!?
Lol I new I would get hammered for that comment!!
A book that I have recommended on here suggests that I man should define clear boundaries in what he wants in a woman. Once this is defined he should then look to find an attractive woman within these restrictions. I personally wouldn't go after a WAW unless maybe it was for the reason of physical abuse or addiction on the S part.
Is she actually a WAW? Or just the one that left? There's a difference.
If she left because her husband was abusive for instance, or had a serious addiction or infidelity or gambling problem that they wouldn't address, she's not really a WAW in the sense that we mean here.
If she went to therapy for a long time with her spouse and they just couldn't work it out, she may or may not be a WAW>
If she just was "unhappy" with an apparently good spouse and didn't try to save the marriage - yeah, she's a WAW and best avoided.
Well L now that I got myself in trouble you cant leave me hanging. What are you going to do?
Well we just started talking so I obviously don't know the story yet just that she checked out years ago and is no longer putting everyone's happiness before her own.
I do respect that fact that she said she waited mainly because of her daughter. I think I will pursue it further because she has many of the same interests that I have and is financially independent.
If I find out she was wayward then I will pull the plug.
BTW Smooth when I saw your response I said "here we go" LOL.
she checked out years ago and is no longer putting everyone's happiness before her own.
I do respect that fact that she said she waited mainly because of her daughter.
Fair warning - this is what my WAH probably said. He only made it to the middle of our youngest son's senior year in high school though (seriously??? He couldn't have waited another 5 months?). And now he's putting his happiness ahead of everyone else's - that means leaving ME to deal with all the problems our young adult children have (and they have many) while he enjoys his "new" life with his child bride. He's waltzing around pretending he's 30 while our kids all come to me with their serious problems because they know their narcissistic father cannot be counted on for emotional support.
Now, I could be wrong - she could just be a long-suffering wife of some terrible guy who stuck it out for her kid - BUT - I'd sure be on the lookout for red flags.
she checked out years ago and is no longer putting everyone's happiness before her own.
I do respect that fact that she said she waited mainly because of her daughter.
Fair warning - this is what my WAH probably said. He only made it to the middle of our youngest son's senior year in high school though (seriously??? He couldn't have waited another 5 months?). And now he's putting his happiness ahead of everyone else's - that means leaving ME to deal with all the problems our young adult children have (and they have many) while he enjoys his "new" life with his child bride. He's waltzing around pretending he's 30 while our kids all come to me with their serious problems because they know their narcissistic father cannot be counted on for emotional support.
Now, I could be wrong - she could just be a long-suffering wife of some terrible guy who stuck it out for her kid - BUT - I'd sure be on the lookout for red flags.
It's pretty much what my XH said too. I believe his exact words were "I'm tired of always eating $h!t sandwiches so that everyone else can have steak." Then he proceeded to pack his crap and move 1600 miles away from the only home he'd ever known (he'd lived in the same city for his entire life prior to running off with his skank) and disconnect from all his friends and family. Then wanted to whine to me later about how hard it was. F you and the horse you rode in on, dude!
I'd be very leery of anyone who uses that putting everyone else's happiness before theirs line regardless of what her tatas look like.
regardless of what her tatas look like.
Hahahahaha!!!!
Anybody seen Shrill yet, with Aidy Bryant from SNL? One character tells her - "you've got the big a$$ and the big boobs so you get to tell him what's going to happen". I'm thinking of adopting that as my new mantra!
regardless of what her tatas look like.
Hahahahaha!!!!
Anybody seen Shrill yet, with Aidy Bryant from SNL? One character tells her - "you've got the big a$$ and the big boobs so you get to tell him what's going to happen". I'm thinking of adopting that as my new mantra!
I was an agri major in college, which was, at the time, a fairly male-dominated area of study. The year that I graduated, I was the only female ag graduate from my department (there were a handful of others from other fields of ag, but I was the only one from ag education). Female high school agriculture teachers were still relatively few and far between. My male counterparts, many of whom I considered good friends, and I would often go to interviews together, as there were fewer openings than there were graduates and many of us would be scheduled back to back, so particularly if we had to travel a couple of hours from campus, it just made sense to ride together. Some schools would even accommodate us by showing us around and introducing us to people together, then doing the separate individual interviews, so it worked nicely. Anyway, I cannot even begin to tell you the number of times that the men would make comments to me on the drive to the interview about how all I had to do was unbutton my blouse and drop my pencil and bend over to pick it up and it would be all said and done because I had big tits (no, they didn't come out and actually say I had big tits, just implied it but that is obviously what they were getting at). Though I was CONSISTENTLY at the top of my class and consistently out-interviewed the guys (I was told this by several administrators and college professors), the guys actually thought that what was going to earn me a job was showing off big tits rather than showing off my big brain or my presentation skills or my vast knowledge of horticulture and animal science, along with my ability to weld.
Yeh, dudes are awful. Any man who thinks that a woman with big tatas is going to outshine them just because she has big tatas is welcome to grow out some man boobs.
big brain or my presentation skills or my vast knowledge of horticulture and animal science, along with my ability to weld.
It's a good thing you've got Sparky and I've got B because you are sounding like my perfect woman Dawn! I'm still trying to hunt you down just in case things don't work out for us separately
Being able to weld clinches it. I'm horrible at that.
My ex had ginormous naturals. She was certainly popular when working for the stock exchange. She had about 2/3 of them taken off to ease back pain and the rash she had under them. Which she passed on to me
And she was disappointed that I was never really a boob guy - it's all about the sparkle in their eyes when they smile for me.
[quoteYeh, dudes are awful. Any man who thinks that a woman with big tatas is going to outshine them just because she has big tatas is welcome to grow out some man boobs.][/quote]
Hahahahaha!!!!!!
In the case of Shrill, she wasn't talking about business but about her relationship - that she had no need to feel inferior, SHE was actually the one driving the bus (and when she dumped the guy for not treating her well he came running back). More women need to be less critical of their bodies and more comfortable in their skin, which is a message we can all take to heart.
I don’t think I can handle anymore big boob talk.
I’m beginning to hate boobs.
Anyways, if she is someone you wouldn’t consider morally because she wasn’t super hot, then you shouldn’t because she is super hot.
And I do know there are walk a ways out there who seriously had valid reason. Again, there are many ways to truly dishonor your marriage vows other than cheating.
If you are truly interested, hear her out then determine
I like big boobs and I can not lie...………………
big brain or my presentation skills or my vast knowledge of horticulture and animal science, along with my ability to weld.
It's a good thing you've got Sparky and I've got B because you are sounding like my perfect woman Dawn! I'm still trying to hunt you down just in case things don't work out for us separately
Being able to weld clinches it. I'm horrible at that.
My ex had ginormous naturals. She was certainly popular when working for the stock exchange. She had about 2/3 of them taken off to ease back pain and the rash she had under them. Which she passed on to me
And she was disappointed that I was never really a boob guy - it's all about the sparkle in their eyes when they smile for me.
I always joke with Sparky that I'm a h3ll of a woman. He always just nods his head and agrees.
Please start a new thread and link this one to it. I will link your new thread to this one.