Still wondering what comes next

Posted By: DonH

Still wondering what comes next - 01/30/19 04:30 PM

My Last Thread

Well... Here I am with a brand new thread - and back to the old topic of this coach. Some will really protect their leader. Lol. I'm not saying he's useless but he's not all you crack him up to be. Juju is very on point that different things work on different people. I've got to get some work done but the book did not work on wild girl and I did not "steal her away" other than for a few days. Back on land she was anxious to return to what she left. She claimed it was mostly D15 and D17 but I'm sure new guy is high on the list. Although I am over and done with her so it's not like I asked her out again or anything. I promise I will write the story of what she says happened and what I really think. Some of it will support you and your coach - others will not.

As for why would I call? I'm curious!!! I want to know what this guy thinks about all of this. That's just me - very curious - even WG has said so. I was a bit surprised that she texted me late last night. That's not happened for a long time. She asked how I was feeling after the dentist. Her place is closed today, like many, due to the cold so she was staying up late (and drinking wine). We didn't text too long and I ended it. Anyhow, I don't hate her. I will not pursue her but I have multiple items if her clothing so just that alone means I'll see her at least one more time. But we agreed we'd stay in touch. I'll see her aunt (whom I've known 25+ years) this weekend. I know I'll run into her parents. That changes the dynamic. If I had zero ties I may never see her again but this was not a weekend hook up. She's the first woman I've spent 10 days/nights with in over 10 years. If I didn't make her my GF in summer when I could have, I certainly won't now. But I coukd see going to a ballgame or something. Who knows? She's not the devil, just not LTR potential. Even broken people can be fun. I just can never trust her. Not all my friends are perfect either but I still like them. As was quoted and I've said all along, she's fun to play with, just not R material.

I'll try to write the story she spun this afternoon.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 01/30/19 11:41 PM

I'm not so sure any of this matter anymore anyhow but I promised the rest of the story and I'm always a man of my word. So here is what I learned.

Actually, first, let's start back at my deal breakers. While they may have expanded a bit, back when WG and I went on our first date (the weekend after hanging out at the event we reconnected at) I told her that honesty is one. I told her that meant not only not lying but also not shading the truth or lying by omission. She very much agreed and said she hates lies. Second was smoking. I just despise it and could never be with a daily smoker. Her response was "well I'm not going to lie" (good start) "I like to have an occasional cigarette now and then. It relaxes me" she said. I know other people in this box and could live with it as long as I don't have to see or experience it. During the months we dated she never smoked although several times I wondered - including immediately after arriving at my house, giving me a very tight lipped kiss, and thinking I smelled something. Thursday night (the night before we left) I took a shower and came out. My outdoor automatic light was on and the front door was ajar. We had come home about a half hour earlier but I asked "Did you go outside" and got an immediate no. Hmmmmm. Well clearly she had and now I know why. Her just now and then is really like 5 times a day - everyday or at least thte 10 days we were together. Evidently she figured at this point there was no reason to hide it anymore. I have two deal breakers and she breaks both of them.

So, on Sunday (day two of the cruise) she had a long conversation with my close female friend - the one I took to lunch a few months ago. She told her that I would not commit. I found this very interesting as I was never asked to commit. My friend said how I had told her I could not get a hold of her and she would not return calls and was short with her texts. Of course she denied it to her - and later to me. Her side is that I stopped contacting her. Well, partly true and partly what I've believed and this coach says to do. After my last time at her house I texted I was home and never received a response. Prior to that she had also gone cold. Was it that I was on the phone too much? Well if so, why did it take nearly four months to be a problem? About all she could hang her hat on (and she loves to wear hats) was that I talked about taking her over night on a train trip to Chicago and never followed through. That was true but only because I could sense her distance. She never tried to reach out to me - why? We are both stubborn she claimed. I had a very popular post on FB that all of my friends liked and commented on - not WG. Then last week she brags about the post and how good it was. Oh, so you did see it. Why not like it. Again, she had no answer.

I don't want to give you my conclusion but what else is there? She lost interest. Or more so, this dude was entering the picture. He claims they started dating in August. She says he was just coming over to vent about his GF and even told me about "her buddy" coming over. He's a year younger than her. Lives in her city. Is never married. Wants to have a baby. I'm 13 years older. Live 70 minutes away. Don't want to get married let alone have a baby! He's clearly a better suited BF in those areas.

I brought up her comment the day after I asked her to go on the cruise of "What happens if we meet someone else?" She claims that was her hint that she wanted to be exclusive. I'm still not sure I buy it. Why then deny we are even dating - correcting me if I said we are dating to we are just hanging out.

In the end, I don't think she can even be honest about this. She doesn't want to say, perhaps doesn't want to hurt my feelings to say she's just not that into me or it was just a fun summer fling. That part might be nice of her but turning it around, now that she is "safe" to say, you let me get away, it's all your fault, had you not gotten distant I would have been all in. I think it's BS. Part of me does or did wonder perhaps I should have just said something back then to at least get to January. It would have given me more piece of mind. But would it? More likely she would have still cheated on me with this guy. Even her truth changes day to day. I think I would have been hurt in the end.

So it would be nice to learn from my "mistakes" or for the future but really all I'd be learning is how to deal with a personality I don't want to be with in the long term anyhow. At least she opened my eyes to potentially wanting more. I really did have fun. I could have done without the drama and the angst but nothing is perfect.

Anyhow, that's her story. It's senseless for me to try to argue it with her. She'd gaslight me or make it like trying to nail jello to the wall. One more before I end this post. She's off of work today due to the weather as are her girls (and pretty much all of my state as it's going to -27 again tonight). So she texted me that her mom really wants to get together with her to hear about the cruise. I'll likely see her parents this weekend. What must they think? Perhaps that thought should have hit me right away - but they spent the holidays with this guy but also know our history. What must her mom be thinking? Which then took me to, what must her daughters be thinking? What a terrible role model she is for them. Again, I know these girls, they know me. I've stayed at their house. The girls and parents know I'm not just "her buddy Don". So are they now forced to keep her secret? That stinks for them. That may be my biggest 2X4 for me in all of this. Thankfully her girls are more mature than she is in many ways. She says her mom is oblivious to it. I just don't buy it and most certainly her dad is not. I almost can't wait to talk to them - and to her aunt. This is so not me. I used to be so drama-free and so under the radar. Now I'm clearly on the radar and I don't like it at all - not one bit. A few of my friends who are in the know are also asking me and commenting that this is not like me.

It's time to move on and I most certainly will. And to think, Wild Girl was still one of the best if not the best choice available to me. Once again I just can't help but think, all of the good ones are taken for a reason. They may be available for a short window but not for long or at all - because they are too busy celebrating their 25th or 30th or 35th anniversary. Meanwhile, I'm still wondering what comes next - as my new thread title says. At least I'm learning and growing from it. I know none of us want to think it's the case but there really are more broken people out there than we think there are. 12 years since my D has most certainly proven that to me.
Posted By: Coconut

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 01/31/19 12:04 AM

Iím glad you had a good time Don, everything actually happened exactly as you initially desired, the path was a bit different than expected, but spot on to what you wanted at first. I will say I was shocked when the pics first went up on FB, I wondered if she okíd it or if you just said f it, but Iím glad to hear you checked with her first.

Itís a difficult thing to choose between the great right now (but gonna be a mess in the future) and the [censored] right now but Iím gonna stay alone until the right one comes along.. my opinion is that you probably couldíve shown more interest and kept her longer, but I donít think forever was ever in the cards and without that it just might not be worth..

Welcome back to the real world where you gotta make your own bed and cook again.. def the toughest part of coming back from a cruise.
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 01/31/19 12:55 AM

She's totally gaslighting you. You showed plenty of interest and she started not responding just about the time this guy entered the picture - it wasn't about you.

And I agree, if she doesn't have to ovaries to just admit her ambivalence she's no use to you.

What I think you have learned though from this year is that you DO want companionship and at least a steady girlfriend. It may be time to put a little more effort into looking in the right places for the right type of woman.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/04/19 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by kml
What I think you have learned though from this year is that you DO want companionship and at least a steady girlfriend. It may be time to put a little more effort into looking in the right places for the right type of woman.

Of all the people here KML you seem to get me the most. Or at least I agree with most of what you have to say. I again agree. The problem is do I have the wherewithal to put in the effort necessary. I also heard multiple times from multiple people how much more fun I was to be around, and how much more fun I was with Wild Girl around. I guess I don't see it but others clearly did - which again supports your thought KML. But sometimes I just don't feel it. Take this weekend...

I was at an annual event in Chicago - the 31st annual and I was at the first one. Just think about that for a minute. But anyhow, I took the woman from Canada I've known for quite a few years and hooked up with two years ago at Thanksgiving to dinner. She was staying the night and flying home today. We get along great. She knows all about Wild Girl and my life. I know or at least strongly sense she's interested but I'm pretty sure I have friend zoned her. Yet we are very compatible in so many ways, get along great. I just can't bring myself to feel it. I'm sure I could have spent the night - if even in the other bed - but again, I just couldn't push myself to do it. Maybe that's normal, but this happens more often than not to me. As wrong and as broken as she is, I totally had "those feelings" for Wild Girl but not for others. Why? I don't know. Was WG "safe" since I knew from day one she had too much damage and she also was casual with me? I'm sure that's part of it.

We talked about Swedish Goddess and how I should at least take her out and see if anything is there. I could, I may, but it's sorta like I also have to take some checks to deposit in the bank, get some grocery's and a few other errands. Calling Swedish Goddess would be sorta on that same list. It's a to do - not a want to do. That could totally change if I spent time with her but pushing myself to spend time with her is the challenge.

Had about a dozen people all told ask "where is your girlfriend" or some variation of that comment. Hmmmmm maybe I should not have put those pictures up on Facebook. What really catches my attention is if all of these friends see those pictures and think GF - what can this new guy be thinking?

I did get to talk with WG's aunt. I sort of thought she was not too fond of her niece and might say so. She actually has some nice things to say about her. Her parents did not show up - even though WG texted me saying they might after she went to dinner with them on Friday. They were really wanting to hear about the cruise. I told her of all the people who said to say hello and/or asked about her. Funny, she said that she was working - as if that's why she wasn't there. Odd. LOL Have not talked since Saturday. I still need to get her clothes back to her though.

There were a few others I may have had some interest in but again not really enough to do anything about it. At least the trips keep stacking up. Add Nashville to the list. Looks like I'll be performing there over Memorial Day Weekend. It's another combination thing doing two public places - bars - and a wedding - which is the reason to get us there and then we'll fill in the public bar gigs around it to make financial sense.

Never really had the post vacation blues last week but now after another vacation type weekend it's a bit of a down Monday. I've got yet another easy week then gigs this coming weekend. I'm half hardily thinking of reaching out to Swedish Goddess and a few others (as I bring this full circle back to my first paragraph) as yes it would be nice to have someone to have another fun summer with like I did last year. I mean I'm only getting older here and can't be wasting even more time.
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/04/19 11:19 PM

Reasons why you might be having trouble getting motivated:


Low testosterone (okay, doesn't sound like this has been a problem, but it DOES decline with age and it IS the hormone of motivation and drive)

Love Avoidance -
We talked about Swedish Goddess and how I should at least take her out and see if anything is there. I could, I may, but it's sorta like I also have to take some checks to deposit in the bank, get some grocery's and a few other errands. Calling Swedish Goddess would be sorta on that same list. It's a to do - not a want to do.

This sounds an awful lot like my Love Avoidant coffee buddy who told me he wouldn't make a date on Monday for Friday night because he wasn't sure he'd be in the mood for it Friday. He'd rather wait until Friday to ask and risk her being unavailable than have it hanging over him all week "like a dentist appointment". Maybe Wild Girl didn't trigger this because you thought of her as unlikely to work out or to have expectations of you.

Fear of getting hurt - after all, Buddha said "All suffering comes from desire", if you don;t desire anybody then there's no risk right?
Posted By: Cadet

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/05/19 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by kml
Low testosterone (okay, doesn't sound like this has been a problem, but it DOES decline with age and it IS the hormone of motivation and drive)

Exactly - especially in men as they age.

And then the ratio of estrogen to testosterone becomes higher so that men become more emotional as we age.
Posted By: doodler

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/05/19 05:09 PM

Low testosterone? The ancient Egyptians had a little-known cure for low testosterone. They'd beat their testicles with a rolled-up newspaper (well, it was actually a papyrus scroll) and then they'd apply a special secret elixir. What you do is beat those bad boys for about five minutes, morning and night, everyday and apply the elixir afterward. The secret elixir is just ground-up horseradish; the same stuff you can buy at the grocery store. Do that for about three weeks and you'll be hung like a silverback gorilla and you'll be producing superhuman doses of testosterone.

Disclaimer: Discuss the procedure with your doctor before trying it at home.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/05/19 10:49 PM

Oh Doodler, Doodler, Doodler...

Anyhow, as soon as I saw the low T (and I already am aware and know a fair amount about this) I really thought, hmmmmm. It's not depression - I'm really sure of that. It could be the love avoidance but I did pretty well getting past that with Wild Girl - although she never really put me to the ultimate test so who knows? But low T... I'm on a medication very well known to drive down T levels. I'm on a low dose but I'm sure it's still effecting things. It did not effect my drive or performance with Wild Girl but she is soooooo sexual how could it? Yes, I know it still could but I think it was as much her helping there. But what about this woman I had hooked up with (we didn't have full sex but still) and I really had no desire to go there this past weekend. That could well be low T going on there. Perhaps it's time for me to wean off fully or perhaps switch to something that would not do that as much. I may try an even lower dose and perhaps it's time to just stop. I think it might help with my ambition in other areas as well. I'm not a fan of replacement - especially since we really don't well know the long term ramifications of that.
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/06/19 12:16 AM

I wouldn't be afraid of replacement if it's indicated - just find a doctor who knows what they are doing with it. Compounded topical cream is best (and less expensive), blood count needs to be monitored (to make sure the blood doesn't get too thick) and estrogen levels followed (if testosterone is too high can convert to excess estrogen).
Posted By: Cadet

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/06/19 02:20 PM

Low T is not just about sexual desire.

As kml originally stated it is motivation and drive hormone too.

In general,
Men have less of that as they age and women as they age have more because their ratio of testosterone to estrogen is also higher, because in women their estrogen levels decrease.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/14/19 08:10 PM

I want to do an update... but I'm still so all over the map... I guess I can give everyone else a look into my disjointed life. LOL.

Had a real fun weekend - well at least in most part. Good band gigs, especially Saturday night. Lots of people I knew came to see us including my youngest niece. Also there was someone I've been flirting with over the past couple years. It's been pretty tame as she is, well was, married. She's even younger than wild girl - WTF - just turned 40. Again lives a state or two away but her mom and sister live here and now that she's getting D'd she's been around more. I'm again pushing myself as she's not totally my type - well not my type in many ways but still is educated, nice enough. Again her mom loves me. What is it with the mom's think I'm a great guy/great catch, the daughters not so much or not sure. Will see if that goes anywhere but someone to have fun with is really about it. I mean 15 years younger - enough with this already.

I told Ginger this offline and she totally understands. I'm pretty much over it now but got some, let's say difficult comments from the other guys in the band. These are the guys who went on the cruise with me. I've known one of them since we were 15 and 17 so yeah 40 years now. Anyhow, Wild Girl came up in conversation including comments that evidently I was a lot more fun to be around and they attributed it to her. "And you let her get away" soon followed from the 40 year friend. Ugggg, um no, that's not really the story. But talk about a rock and a hard place. Am I supposed to bad mouth her, tell them how broken she is and why I didn't want more?" All they know and see is this very fun, very outgoing girl they had a great time with and who they think makes me more fun and would be great for me - and they wonder what's wrong with Don that he let her get away. There is so much more to that story as you all know, yet it really made me feel bad. Was not a nice thing to say either.

Saw one of my "cruise candidates" again yesterday. I nearly stopped to get a single flower or candy or something just to be nice but didn't. Clearly should have as several other clients (she cuts my hair) did and she seemed to love it. She is very single. I don't think she's dated much if at all since I met her three or four years ago. I think she'd go out with me. I know she would have gone on the cruise with me had I asked. Yet, I can't push myself to do it. Then some guy will find her and I will wish that I had. Yet, I can't pull the trigger and I'm not even sure why. With Wild Girl I didn't even hesitate - well it did take over a year but then I didn't hesitate. Maybe it will be the case with this one. I guess I need a name for her. - although if nothing happens... no name needed. LOL

Will I ever figure this all out or is my life just going to keep going on like this forever. I almost wish I was unhappy as then I'd perhaps do something about it. But I'm not. I really like most of my life. So why change what I'm happy with. Yes, I could be even happier - or perhaps I could be much sadder. I've clearly seen both sides in the last 8 months. I just can't make myself have "those" feelings - yet they might grow if I allowed them to.

Slower weekend coming up here. I reached out to some of my friends but half are doing things for VT day while the other half want to stay out of the frey - especially the females - and were not thrilled about meeting up with me on VT weekend. So going to visit with my parents tomorrow for dinner. I don't think I've been to dinner with them this year yet so it's probably a good thing to do. Might meet someone for a drink on Saturday, although not sure yet. Sunday I'm in Chicago.

Things are slow now although the travel plans keep adding up. I of course had the cruise - somewhat a month ago today was the start of that. Go to Europe in mid-April. Nashville just got added to the schedule for Memorial Day weekend - and I love that town and know so many there. Playing for a wedding - not to name drop but it will be held at a time jumper country star's farm. (yes there is a hint in there) and then doing a public bar/restaurant type place for two nights. Blocking out some days in late October or early November to hit Orlando. I've not been there for so many years and even still have three days of unexpired passes. Looking for someone fun to go with me - perhaps the 40 yr/o nearly D'd. Will see. And some band road trips mixed in as well although these destinations are not of the same caliber. OH and my oldest niece (now all of 23) is getting married in May. No I am NOT taking a date to the wedding. But the GAL is still in gear. Could increase it for sure but it's still chugging along.

Enough, I need to stop typing as I'm starting to ramble now. At least there's an update. Oh and those really paying attention, I still have Wild Girls clothes here. She's off in NYC with her D17 and today happens to be her B-Day - so for at least a little while I'm only 12 years older. LMAO. I've had a little bit of contact but not much - which is totally fine with me. The plan is to get together after NYC so she can tell me all about it. I'd be shocked if we did anymore than that - and I'm very fine with that.

And that's my life as of this Thursday afternoon. Happy Valentines Day?!?!?!?!?
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/15/19 04:07 AM

Happy Valentines Day Don - or, as some call it, Happy Singles Awareness Day.

Frankly, more often than not, it's been a shi!!y holiday for me. My ex, while he could be romantic at other times, seldom put himself out for Valentines Day - I recognize now that it was a sign of his ambivalence about the marriage.

CMM has ruined our evening tonight by griping to me tonight when I got home about my Aspergers son not leaving the kitchen clean enough. (Seriously, it was pretty clean, just clean dishes in the drainer and a couple clean pot lids not put away. ) if CMM dies on me, my next date will not be anybody suspiciously tidy.

Honestly, the only memorable Valentines Day I can remember is when crazy exBF snuck into my bedroom while I was asleep and filled it with Mylar balloons. Of course, nowcwe know he had a side piece during all that time.

I'm low maintenance - some modest flowers, a box of chocolates, a bubble bath - I'm pretty low maintenance. But I think I need to just reduce my expectations to zero, and maybe plan some mysterious "conference" that always falls on Valentine's Day that takes me out of town.

Don, definitely don't take a date to the wedding - weddings are good places to meet women, didn't you see Yhe Wedding Crashers?
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/15/19 04:34 AM

Sorry CMM ruined your evening KML. Clearly he has not yet learned not to sweat the small stuff. I find that I have grown considerably in that area since BD. Some things that seemed important before just arenít anymore. Iíve never had anyone do anything really great for Valentineís Day either which kinda s#cks Ďcause my birthday is the day after so that is usually anticlimactic as well. I usually get the Valentineís/birthday combo gift. I learned long ago to have zero expectations so Iíve never been that disappointed. I did make a big deal of it twice in my life. The first time, I sent my high school/university boyfriend (together 6 years) on a scavenger hunt all over the city. Each place he went had a present for him and another clue. The last stop was a luxury hotel where we spent the night. That was super fun for me to plan and set up. The second time was when I took my boyfriend (my current H) to Vegas to see his favourite band. Other than those two instances, Iíve rarely made a deal of it. Generally a card and chocolates or something like that. The guys in my life that I have relationships with tend to be the types who feel somehow annoyed at having a prescribed day to be romantic. Maybe I have a type...lol.

My Valentineís Day consisted of chocolates for my kids and lots of hugs. My son says he will always be my valentine. Love them both so much!!
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/15/19 05:46 AM

Drowning my sorrows in chocolates as we speak - perhaps that's the reason for chocolates on this holiday, for comfort when it all goes awry.

I think I've decided just now- I'm not doing Valentines Day ever again. I feel like Charlie Brown in the Peanuts strip when Lucy pulls the football away. I thought my expectations were set low enough that they could be met, but honestly, they never have. I've put myself out, cooked romantic dinners, hidden dozens or construction paper hearts in my exH's car, bought sexy lingerie - yet really can't remember one Valentine's Day where I really felt loved and appreciated (except for Crazy exBF, and that's ruined by the knowledge now that he was a two-timing liar. )

So starting next year, regardless of whether I have a boyfriend or not, I'm going to start a new tradition. Not sure what it will be, but it will involve self-indulgence and NO MEN.
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/15/19 06:00 AM

And btw DejaVu - what you did for your college boyfriend was awesome. smile
Posted By: JujuB

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/15/19 11:53 AM

My son took some of those heart godiva chocolates I bought from costco, and wrapped them up in green consructuon paper (green is my favorite color) and hid them on my pillow and wrote "i love you mommy". I think that was the most thoughtful and considerate of my likes sort of gift.
Posted By: AndrewP

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/15/19 03:27 PM

(((kml))) - Sorry for the late hug - when I read your post I wanted to send one to you. I expect you can use it right now.

I'm going to ask you a difficult question and you don't need to answer it or even think about it for a while.

Is CMM healthy for you? Most of us that are here, especially the ones who have hung around I think tend to be the more compassionate and giving sorts. You certainly are.

I completely understand that he's going through a very difficult time and that can create excuses for not being as sensitive, caring and supportive as perhaps you would want him to be. Many of us do get wrapped up about potential and sunk costs and a desire to care about and support someone.

I could go in to more probing, but I think it does boil down to - is he healthy for you? Now and in the future. You've known him long enough to get a good idea of who the real person is behind that mustache.

Posted By: rexgm

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/15/19 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by DonH

Actually, first, let's start back at my deal breakers.

We are both stubborn she claimed. I had a very popular post on FB that all of my friends liked and commented on - not WG. Then last week she brags about the post and how good it was. Oh, so you did see it. Why not like it. Again, she had no answer.

I don't want to give you my conclusion but what else is there? She lost interest.
I brought up her comment the day after I asked her to go on the cruise of "What happens if we meet someone else?"

In the end, I don't think she can even be honest about this.

So it would be nice to learn from my "mistakes" or for the future but really all I'd be learning is how to deal with a personality I don't want to be with in the long term anyhow.

It's time to move on and I most certainly will. And to think, Wild Girl was still one of the best if not the best choice available to me.

If you let their action slide when they break them then they are not deal breakers.

Originally Posted by DonH

We are both stubborn she claimed. I had a very popular post on FB that all of my friends liked and commented on - not WG. Then last week she brags about the post and how good it was. Oh, so you did see it. Why not like it. Again, she had no answer.

Why would you ask her this? This to me is starting drama. maybe because of low T, but this is definately not the way a man focused on his goals would act, unless his focus was the lady.

Originally Posted by DonH

I don't want to give you my conclusion but what else is there? She lost interest.
I brought up her comment the day after I asked her to go on the cruise of "What happens if we meet someone else?"

Ofcourse she lost interest. Also why would you bring up this comment? It seems like you are trying to create some drama with someone who is used to it. You are getting dragged into her world instead of you pulling her into yours.

Originally Posted by DonH

In the end, I don't think she can even be honest about this.

So it would be nice to learn from my "mistakes" or for the future but really all I'd be learning is how to deal with a personality I don't want to be with in the long term anyhow.

once again a deal breaker and you should of moved on. There are things to learn, and one is finding out sooner she is not your long term personality type. Also learn what things you could of done better.

Originally Posted by DonH

It's time to move on and I most certainly will. And to think, Wild Girl was still one of the best if not the best choice available to me.

Why do you think she was the best choice for you?

Originally Posted by DonH
The plan is to get together after NYC so she can tell me all about it. I'd be shocked if we did anymore than that - and I'm very fine with that.

why get together with her?

Originally Posted by DonH
Blocking out some days in late October or early November to hit Orlando. I've not been there for so many years and even still have three days of unexpired passes. Looking for someone fun to go with me - perhaps the 40 yr/o nearly D'd. Will see.

why bring sand to the beach? its a vacation, lots of touristy areas where singles look to meet eachother.
Posted By: rexgm

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/15/19 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by DonH
What is it with the mom's think I'm a great guy/great catch, the daughters not so much or not sure.

I believe this is because the moms look at who would make a good provider for their daughter. They are not usually looking at the sexual part of the relationship.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/15/19 07:47 PM

Um Rex, what the Hel....? I always appreciate everyone's input but dude, why are you taking things I wrote well over two weeks ago - cherry picking sentences and stringing them together as if I said it like that? It's like CNN and Fake News has come to the forum? This gets confusing enough but I in no way said the things in the context you are "quoting" me. The Deal breaker sentence was lifted from the start of a paragraph and then jumped to many paragraphs later. Then posts from weeks later are interspersed. I'm not going to rehash all of this again but what I was doing in at least the first post you pulled from was trying to explain the conversation Wild Girl and I finally had - overdue for a few months. She was gas lighting or at least re-writing history and I was not going to let her get away with it. As for walking away... Um we were on day 2 of an 11 day vacation. Did you want me to throw her out of the cabin, put her on a plane home, throw her overboard? The answer to every conflict is not to walk away and never look back. Sometimes a discussion is a good thing and was not at all feeding drama. As to the deal breaker, what I was referring to (smoking) was not even part of the quotes. Why am I seeing her again? - because I have some of her clothes, because we are still friends, because I've known her aunt for 25 years, heck my parents just spent two days with her, I know her parents, I will see them all again, I know I'll run into her again, my friends have now gotten to know her. I don't hate her, we can talk and still not be in an R. Finally, my best choice comment was not "best choice" for an R or partner - she was the best choice at the time to go on the cruise - and I stand by that.

Beyond all of that, I'm not going to rehash this all over again. At this point many here could explain as well as I why much of this happened with regards to this cruise - much of it, including the cost, being out of my control. Remember, after about August 25th tickets were done and things were committed. Life didn't stand still however.

As for my future travel, why on earth do I want to add yet more out of state women to the list. I've met more than enough and have them all over the place - Pittsburgh, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Arkansas (now Florida), St. Louis. I'm not looking to hook up with yet another one on vacation in Florida. I'd much rather take someone that I can see again after the vacation ends. I've done a great deal of travel on my own and do it well. I can do more. I just don't want to. I'd rather take some with me - like I did on the cruise.

Your last statement I tend to agree with more but would add the parents are more stable and established than their kids. Most are still married and have been for 40, 50 or more years. Their daughters are more struggling and have a history of picking the wrong guys. I'm sure that's why Wild Girls mother was so thrilled her and I were dating.

KML, I'm sure you know it wasn't about the dishes. CMM is just very upset with his life or with other things and that's where it came out. I'm guilty of doing that myself. I'm sure that's part of what my friends were getting at last weekend when they said I was a lot more fun with WG around. I got the same last summer. I'm making a conscious effort to not be so negative. It's just hard when I'm not satisfied and fully happy with all aspects of my life. On top of it, I've often focused on improving things. I'm never satisfied (in business) with 90% success - I want to focus on that remaining 10% that needs to be improved. I'm the same with my life. If I look objectively, I'm extremely lucky at where I am. I have great health, great family and friends, I'm financially set, don't usually have to set my alarm clock, have accomplished huge amounts of things... yet it's that remaining 10% that I seem to be focused on lately - and letting drag me down.

As has happened before, the Valentine"d Day things sort of snuck up on me. I really didn't care much or give it a thought. It's not like I had anyone worthy of getting anything from me. But then friends, who I'm guessing were feeling worse than me, kept bringing things up until I was bummed too right along with them. I think it's your expectations that made it worse - you had it all set in your head what you hoped it would be and when it didn't happen, you were disappointed.

I have to ask an even harder question than Andrew did... if he wasn't Stage IIIb would you have left by now or moved on by now? It must be the worst situation to be in because how could this not be on your mind? I know it would be on mine. But that still doesn't mean you can't bring it up to him and I think you should! I think you should tell him that you had high expectations for a really nice VD and his behavior really killed it. I'd let him know. If he doesn't he doesn't have the opportunity to change. You may even hint that this is not what you signed up for and if it continues you will struggle to keep going with it. That would be far better than letting it continue, get worse and get you to the point that you can't handle it anymore.
Posted By: rexgm

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/15/19 08:11 PM

Bored at work and started reading through some threads. Didnt actually notice the date it was written, figured it was active. Although throwing her overboard would of been an interesting action.
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/15/19 08:57 PM

With CMM the clean freak stuff was present before his diagnosis - I'm pretty sure it's the reason he moved out of his last roommate situation into his own place. Ramped up maybe because of his lllness but not caused by it - he's OCD and can't admit it to himself. If I pet the dog I have to wash my hands before I touch CMM kind of OCD.

He's generally good and loving with me and doesn't direct his OCD at me. But his stubborn conviction that his way is the right way and his difficult interactions with others are a problem. If he wasn't sick, it's possible that the relationship would have burned out; or equally possible that without the stress of his illness these cracks wouldn't have appeared.

The question is moot though - he's ill with a life threatening disease and no real support system; I won't abandon him.

And don't worry, my boundaries are very healthy. I told him clearly last night that I did not appreciate him messing up our Valentine's evening over such penny ante complaints.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/15/19 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by rexgm
Although throwing her overboard would of been an interesting action.

Yeah but I promised her mom and her daughters I'd keep her safe and return her in the same condition I picked her up in. Plus, I'm told the paperwork on that is horrendous.

Originally Posted by rexgm
Bored at work and started reading through some threads.

So in other words, never mind? Good to see your advice is well reasoned. well thought out, and to be taken to heart smile

Originally Posted by kml
The question is moot though - he's ill with a life threatening disease and no real support system; I won't abandon him.

I fully understand and agree. I could not abandoned someone like this either and hope (and like to think) I'd do the same thing you are.. I've said it before that he's very lucky to have you. I'd be forever grateful if it were me in his situation.

It is interesting, just in an abstract way (not necessarily talking you or your sitch KML) but interesting how one little thing can cause someone to walk away and never look back when it happens before or after a first date - and the quick walk away and never look back is supported by many. Any number of little things can have someone move on and try the next person. Yet, after even a few months, people are much more willing to overlook or at least give a chance to those very same behaviors that would have had them out the door previously. Again, just a very interesting aspect of human nature. And clearly I'm not pointing fingers here - I'm much the same. I allowed Wild Girl many more latitudes and overlooked more than I have with all sorts of other woman that never made it to the 10th or even 5th date. I guess this is yet something else to be said for dating the same person for awhile rather than dozens of 3rd dates.
Posted By: AndrewP

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/16/19 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by DonH
interesting how one little thing can cause someone to walk away and never look back when it happens before or after a first date - and the quick walk away and never look back is supported by many. Any number of little things can have someone move on and try the next person. Yet, after even a few months, people are much more willing to overlook or at least give a chance to those very same behaviors that would have had them out the door previously. Again, just a very interesting aspect of human nature.
Just because it is called the sunk costs fallacy doesn't mean that it isn't a very real thing. Heck it even got me to the point where after nearly 3 decades I was willing to overlook a serious affair which in the first 3 or 4 would not have been accepted.

Just to ramble a bit on the subject as well - we are as humans I believe creatures of habit. We get used to things. The boiling frog analogy perhaps also applies if you want to look at it cynically.

I have 2 cats. They would wake me up in the middle of the night and it would take some attention and comfort from me to satisfy them and then we would all have a quiet night. Then it ramped up. And eventually I decided that I'd had enough. So now - after the first session of meowing and banging on my bedroom door, they get evicted - gently - to the kitchen. But I accepted that "unacceptable" behaviour for close to a year before the frequency exceeded my frog boiling temperature.

We also as people I think hold on to the idea of "potential". It's what keeps lottery players buying their tickets. Heck - and you'll be pleased with this Don - it's what kept me on the shelf for CL for months while I waited for her to sort her own crap out. There was a lot of potential there. But potential unrealized is just so much fairy dust that fades with the dawn.

One of my favourite aphorisms is that "everyone's fondest wish is for tomorrow to be like yesterday". And that keeps us stuck waiting for a future past that is past rather than building and growing towards an actual future. Real futures require letting go of the past. Taking risks. Venturing the unknown and the uncomfortable. It's hard. It's easy to say - "I'll never find someone who fits boxes X, Y or Z" or to discount people who cross our paths because those boxes aren't ticked. But as I often say when I give presentations - it is important for us to imagine the possible.

Well - enough philosophy for this evening. I'm curious to see what flowers from these seeds though. Perhaps nothing. But I have some seeds from a habanero pepper gifted to me by a friend from Trinidad that didn't sprout this winter that I'm going to try again in the spring.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 03/07/19 01:00 AM

Well... Even though it's been somewhere near three weeks since my last update, and even though there are multiple things I could update on, this will still be a short post - at least short for me.

I should be really happy. Heck most of you should be really happy for me. Sadly, the reality is we all have too much history not to at least have a healthy pause. It's not even official yet but I'd say given that my source is at the core of things, it's much more likeky than not to be true...

We are being asked back for next years cruise!

Yeah, I know, in other words, here we go again. Honestly I really don't think this will be that bad - not as bad as last year I mean. And heck it's not yet even official, but, I guess what really gets me is how did I get to a point in my life where otherwise really, really exciting news like this could bring such pause - and I'm betting those of you who rode this ride along with me last year know this feeling very wel - because you're feeling it right now!!!

Just so this does not get taken out of context, which I'm told happen a lot around here? hmmmm, who knew? But in all of the above, I'm mostly joking. It's mostly tongue in cheek, sarcasm... MOSTLY!
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 03/07/19 01:48 AM

If I weren't in a relationship, and so seriously prone to motion sickness that I would NEVER set foot on a cruise ship, I'd offer to be your date next year.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 04/10/19 04:53 PM

Well, it's been over a month. I wish I again had more to report and I guess I do but nothing worth reading??? LOL. The cruise is confirmed for next January again. I thought it was going to fall through as... a different cruise line, different line up of bands and the behind the scenes negotiations looked like we might have to bow out as the perks were reduced from last time. I guess I still have my negotiating skills as I put together what I really thought was a fair counter proposal and evidently they did as well as it was accepted. Part of me was almost fine if it would fall through as then I would not have to go through last year again but to be honest, now that it's a done deal again, I'm still fine. I think I may have gotten it out of my system last time. That's not to say I won't have to find someone to go and won't have the same goals (other than the drama of the last month or two prior to cruising LOL) But I've got at least until August again and a lot can happen.

I leave for my first trip of my life to Europe in a few hours. I've traveled a lot or at least a fair bit in my lifetime but never to Europe. I'm excited but not nearly as excited as when I went on the cruise. I know I'll have fun and I'm very glad I'm going - just not at that same level. Not even sure why. I'll let everyone know about it when I get back later next week.

Still kinda meah about dating and I'm sure that's effecting my results. Pretty much the same thing now has happened with four different women - we talk about going out, sometimes even have tentative plans, but then it never happens. I think they sense I'm not fully in it and doing it just in case something happens. One of the women I've dated before and we are mostly just friends but it would still have been fun to get together when she was in town - but we didn't. The next lady I think is afraid of dating anyone. The third said she is allergic to cats and Republicans LOL yet we have gotten along very well. For the record, I don't have any cats. She again just said about meeting (none of these are from OLD) yet every time I say, sure, then she backs off. Thing is, none of them give me that "I really want to meet you feeling" - more just the "yeah, we can go out even though I don't expect anything to come of it feeling" and I'm betting they are sensing it or perhaps even feeling the same thing. I wish I would have whatever came over me with Wild Girl last summer come over me again - where I actually tried and when I tried, look what happened.

And speaking of Wild Girl, I had not heard from her at all for nearly a month then we ended up on the phone for several hours catching up last week and again for a shorter time two days later on my birthday - yes I'm even a year older. Ugggggggg. She is interesting, I'll give her that. I swear she even believes the stuff she says. I really wanted to know (I don't even know why) what this new guy of hers said after the cruise - which as an aside, I still keep getting questions from people I run into based on the social media photos out there "Who is this girl" "she really looks into you" "did you get married" Um MARRIED?? WTF???? Anyhow, yes, he still thinks something went on - to which she says to me "I don't get it why do people think that men and women can't just be friends" I'm like, well, look what happened, and she gets real quiet and almost whispers in the phone, "no one knows about that." To which I respond, "Well I do, I was there!!!!" Why would she even say something like this - other than she is challenged with the truth so deeply that she's even lying or at least spinning it to someone who knows the real story - MEEEEEEE!. Yep, fun to play with, but not at all R material. Yet... Not a healthy choice on my part. If everything happens for a reason I should perhaps be thanking this guy for entering the picture when he did.

Enough of that as other than two out of the last 30 days I didn't think much about her. I'm hoping my future dating life will all just naturally fall back into place. There are at least a half dozen women I could peruse like I did WG, now if only I could find it within myself to want to peruse them. Now watch, that will happen while in Europe, with someone who lives there. That would be true to form for me (but the first time with someone from out of the country LOL)

How's that for an update barley worth reading? Hopefully I'll have something more interesting to report next time.
Posted By: Twofeet

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 04/10/19 05:31 PM


What countries in Europe have you visited? I have been to France and it was great! Hope you have a good time and looking forward to your update. BTW you should just next these women in your life, and see what kind of women you can attract while on your trip!
Posted By: Twofeet

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 04/10/19 05:32 PM

Ugg you can't edit on this side of the forums.

What countries in Europe are you visiting?
Posted By: job

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 04/10/19 06:39 PM

Travel safely and enjoy your trip. Let us know what countries you are planning to visit.
Posted By: Dawn70

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 04/10/19 07:26 PM

Bon voyage!
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 04/18/19 09:14 PM

I just figured i'd give a little update since I'm back on US soil. Interesting how at least this side of the board here has become more of a personal diary, get-together, coffee chat than a place to work on and solve R issues. Not sure when that bridge was crossed - and it may just be my assessment but it seems to be the case. Anyhow...

I'm back from my first trip to Europe. It was clearly a work trip - CLEARLY. I feel a bit bait and switched. This was laid out to be much like the cruise - where we provide our services for little or no cash but receive multiple times what we'd typically charge in the form of free travel. While the cruise allowed for both me and a guest to go free of charge, this trip was only for those working - or so I thought. Imagine my surprise when three boyfriends/girlfriends showed up at the airport. Now, to be fair, two of the couples are engaged (more about them in a minute) and the other living together, but still... fair is fair... especially when one if not two had to work about 1/5th of myself and three others. But, truth be told, I would not have wanted to have to find someone to take and based on what happened, i'm really glad I didn't otherwise they'd have been disappointed as well. Still, while I do subscribe to the adage that "fair is the other F word" this was not at all fair.

My trip started off with all of us arriving in Amsterdam at about 6:00 in the morning (midnight here). So it had been a long day of travel. Everyone retrieved their luggage - well other than me that is. I'm a good traveler and can live for days on my carry on. The only problem was, my carry on was my instruments. That was already pushing it so there was no way I could take anything else other than medication. Long story short, my luggage was never put on the plane. They sent it over nearly 40 hours later but because we were so far from the airport, the currier didn't deliver it until three days later. I'm still fighting with the airlines about that and trying to get reimbursed for the things I ended up buying in order to not wear the same cloths for four days in a row.

We were treated like rock stars by the people. The two gigs were incredible to perform for - complete with meet and greet, autograph session, selling signed posters for 25 euro. Understand that is not at all typical of the gigs I play. So it really was fun with amazing crowds. Unfortunately, between rehearsal (that I was never told about) set-up and sound check 5 hours prior to show and on and on, it gave little to no time to see anything. There was a whole lot of hurry up and wait. Finally, it was Sunday night and our performances were done. We'd move to Amsterdam for the next two days to finally be tourists. Oh, but not so fast... a "mix up" with the hotel meant we'd have to stay in the little town after all. I got a total of less than 2 hours in downtown Amsterdam. Do I still get to say I saw it? Not much more than a lay-over - which i never consider as being "in" a city.

I'll stop btching here but it was a huge let down. The parts I saw were fun. Got to hang out with some really, really good musicians that i know and have performed with in the past but not that often. They were pretty much all killer musicians so that part helped.

More to the purpose of this board, it was eye opening to experience two of the couples. Couple one consists of a guy 3 times divorced, most recently in Fall of 2017. He is marrying a one time D'd woman about 7 years his senior who was D'd about 3 years ago after a 25 year marriage. The other is one time D'd 13 years younger than me soon to be marrying a never married late 30s woman. The interesting part was how they all could not keep their hands off of each other. I swear to you it was like being with high school kids. I was thinking it but several of the others finally started saying things like "OMG, not this again, can you not go two minutes without touching each other" and similar comments. Talk about the all spun up infatuation phase. A rather wise long married guy in his late 70s with us commented how he wants to see how they are in a year or two.

We can further discuss this phenomenon if there is interest. I just found it really interesting to witness. As for me, I really didn't meet anyone outside of our group that i was able to spend time with other than perhaps the head of the security and his GF. He was great to talk to. A very smart man who fluently went from Dutch to German to English and spoke all of them very well.

I was asked again about wild girl - once again making me wonder if putting all those pictures up was a good idea LOL. The people I'm going to Nashville with asked the most. They then told me they were going to find me a "date" for when I'm down there next month. I've done this trip before so I know what I'll get.

Not much else to report. I wish there was. At least both me and my luggage arrived safe and sound back home yesterday. Let's hope this continues I the black cloud that seemed to have formed a week ago has dissipated.
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 04/18/19 09:35 PM

That's been my experience with touring too - wake up, rehearse something that's been changed/added/or needed work, load up the van, travel to the next destination, drop things at hotel, soundcheck/play/eat, do it all again the next day. It's fun but you definitely do NOT have time for tourist stuff.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 04/18/19 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by kml
That's been my experience with touring too - wake up, rehearse something that's been changed/added/or needed work, load up the van, travel to the next destination, drop things at hotel, soundcheck/play/eat, do it all again the next day. It's fun but you definitely do NOT have time for tourist stuff.

Well when it's a straight work trip that you're being paid for... then yes... although even then I've had more fun. I'm no rookie at all of this and have done well over 100 road trips. But this was not "sold" to us as that. It was sold to us like the cruise was. It was sold as you'll see and do all of these things and we only do one 3 or 4 hour performance. That then turned into 2 performances before we left - which was still fine. Then after we get there it became 5 hours on one night and 6 on the next (or the other way around) coupled with showing up like 1 PM with nothing to do, sitting around and waiting for a sound check that finally happened at 5 and then start the performance at 7. Just not at all what I'm used to or down for even WHEN I'M GETTING PAID. Funny thing is, the guy who organized this in the USA went with us on the cruise but is refusing to go again this next time because the free drink package wasn't included! I'm like dude, you won't go unless you get a drink package when you only perform like 10 hours in a week yet you just made us do 11 hours in two days! The fact that some got to bring guests also T'd many of the others off.

I don't know, maybe I should have saw this coming? Part of it is their culture over there. Another part is this promoter over there seems a bit shady. Just really stinks for someone like me who was really looking forward to seeing Europe... and is STILL really looking forward to seeing Europe. Had dinner in Germany if that counts! LOL
Posted By: Twofeet

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 04/19/19 01:47 AM


As far as couple 1 goes, statistically it's not in the cards for them. You would think after 3x D the guy would have figured it out.

Couple 2, I don't have enough info, but I think I know what's going on and what's going to happen. I agree with the guy in his 70s, 1 to 2 years out I bet it's a different story.
Posted By: Cadet

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 05/09/19 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by DonH
Originally Posted by Cadet
Flying without instruments
Do you fly airplanes?

Since I have 3000 hours of flying time, I don't think I would ever want to fly without instruments.

Had to jump in since I never like to miss any airplane talk. I've been an instrument rated pilot since 1992. Not near as many hours as you, at about 1,100, but sadly I've not been PIC since 2009. Sold my share of a Cirrus SR22 shortly after. I miss it but not enough to get back in the game. A lot of great memories though. Hmmmmm sorta sounds like my love life as well. smile

Anyhow, I'd never fly without instruments either but for some they love the thill or perhaps don't want to consider the very real possibility of crashing and burning. Interesting relating the two.

So as not to high jack another thread I will respond here.

I have not flown for a long time either as most of my flying time was in the Air Force,
In my younger days it was quite a profession.
Most of my classmates are now retired airline or FedEx pilots, so I get a lot of that talk from them.

Of course they all had their professional opinions about Boeing,
mostly that with their training here in the US that those accidents would never happen.

Anyways glad to know their are fellow airman here! smile smile smile
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 05/20/19 06:23 PM

Seems like things all come in clusters. I've had a really chill, lazy, boring last couple of months, with not much to talk about on here. The weather has not helped - here we are 10 days from June and it was in the 40s last night and is dark and dreary at 55 again now. It's sort of how I've felt a bit too. Not a lot of ambition. Certainly no ambition to date - even with needing to wash, rinse and repeat from a year ago and find another cruise date for the January 2020 cruise.

So this past weekend was my niece/God daughters wedding. She's a bit young (in my eyes) at 23 but is marrying a great guy who just became a dentist. And it's around this that my post will center. I could talk about the wedding and how amazing it is to again see how things look when they start. It's amazing to watch a ceremony (I've not been for quite a few years now) and how everything is viewed as life long, and great and love and forever. Then real life kicks in.

I could talk about a woman I was sort of paired with at the wedding. Long story but a good friend of my brother and SIL. She has two awesome, but still pre-teen, kids and is still married (technically) to a friend of my brothers since grade school, whom I also know. They have vacationed together, are on volleyball together, etc. My parents know them and vise versa, etc. They were a seemingly great family of four. But bad timing - well that and she's a foot taller than me - LOL - okay not a foot but almost felt that way in heels. LOL. Just totally bad timing and I'd not want to get involved with anyone going through a D let alone a close friend of the family but it was nice to kinda sorta of have a companion for the rehearsal dinner and we sat together and hung out a bit at the wedding - even danced with her a bit. Will see if it goes anywhere. Does not appear she has an OM. Not sure about him or what happened. Everyone on the outside is shocked as there was zero outward sign that there was any trouble. She's either doing really well or acting as if - faking it until she makes it - which is what my SIL believes to be the case. But she seemed to handle it really well - clearly much better than i did 3 months after. Anyhow, maybe more about her at some point in the future.

I could talk about my flat tire Friday night, trying to change it in a downpour, finding out the rim lock lug key is stripped and I can't get the tire off. Grrrrrrrrrr

But instead I'll talk about my step D. I first met her well over 20 years ago now when she was 9. We've not been as close as we once were again until about a year ago. She's turned into an amazing woman with a great husband - who performed with me for the wedding ceremony. So......... It was learning about her mom, my ex wife - wow I mean wow - that has surprised me - even if it should not. I perhaps should be doing back flips but I'm not. Now with my step D struggling with him mom, I'm only getting her side of the story but it's things that have been repeated to me many times in the past, sometimes hinted, many phrases repeated.

Anyhow, it sounds like my ex W's third D might be on the way. She has seen her grandson (my step Ds 4 year old) about 5 times in his life. The last time he asked who this person was and was told "that's your grandmother" to which he said "She's not my grandmother, she is" - pointing to his fathers mom, who sees him several times a week. The discussion was flattering to me - how thankful she was for growing up with me as a role model. Thankful for, other than one huge misstep with my addiction, my always being there for her. Her husband is very blunt and outspoken but often on target. He's befuddled how I could even chose someone like my ex to date let alone marry her. They told me of affairs that have since been well confirmed and some admitted. I had no idea! I suspected one or two but never thought that A) friends of mine would sleep with my wife and B) my wife would sleep with friends of mine. They wonder how I put up with it for as long as I did. When i mentioned a few things about other women I've dated even step D said "Do you see red flags here Don?" Wise girl. I could go on and on, and perhaps if this discussion goes anywhere I will.

It really hit me more on Saturday, a bit on Sunday but less now today. It's also so far behind me. Something that I rarely think about these days. Until a funeral 5 or 6 months ago, I had not had any contact with my ex for many years - 5 at the very least? So I'm sort of in some ways being told, yet again, "Don be glad you got away and finally dodged this bullet." I'm being told, Don, you were not the problem, SHE was. Yet how I see it is how was I soooooo stupid to chose her in the first place - or let her talk me into the R, staying and then getting married. I also have never been one to dodge blame. There were things that I clearly did and should not have - ways I acted that I never should have. Things I did, messed up priorities. I've always taken full responsibility - yet at least according to these people, I'm the victim.

I was told of recent stories with her drinking and making a scene. Stories of her crying, drunk, saying she stilled loved her first husband! Her big deal now is advocating for the Downs Syndrome Association after adopting a child with Downs. I was told of how she was secretly going to a fertility clinic prior to the adoption, while telling others she's not trying to get pregnant. Not sure if husband #3 was aware? Very much makes me wonder if she lied to me about being on birth control in hopes of getting pregnant while we were married - even though I clearly did not want a child. Just what or who was I married to? Neary all if not all of her friends back when we were married are no longer in her life. Her D is really no longer in her life. Her grand children are not Her son is but he's a very go with the flow type of guy.

A lot to continue to process. On the upside, I see an even stronger R with my step-daughter and family going forward. Her husband and I (both professional musicians that also currently have or have had other careers). He tells me he's always looked up to me and had my back. I do remember him calling ME to ask permission to marry my step-daughter. I was shocked when he did that and it was never expected, but very much appreciated. I've already seen her son more than his actual grandmother has I guess. Not as much with their daughter but she's just starting to walk. My parents were thrilled to see them and could not stop talking about how great of an adult she's become.

Maybe I'll have more to say on all of this. Maybe more of a friendship will develop with the family friend as her D progresses. If anything I'd love to offer DR up to her and any support - something I would have loved to have had when I went through it.

But for now though, I'm just going to get my tire fixed. It's about all I can handle at this moment. LOL
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 05/20/19 08:09 PM

Nice to be vindicated, isn't it? It's taken a while for me to see my ex's issues clearly, and a bit longer for others to see it, but it all came out in the wash eventually. I take the approach now that my ex probably wouldn't have had nearly as long and successful a first marriage if he had married someone else originally. I'm thankful for my kids' sake that he's in what appears to be a stable marriage with his second wife, so they don't have to deal with drama there. I try to help my kids deal with him while not denying their experience of him in the process.

As for recently separated lady at the wedding - I wouldn't go near her until you learn some of the story as to why her marriage broke up. Ask around.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 06/11/19 09:05 PM

Oh C'mon, not again. Just got this emai from the band leader regarding next January's cruise" (names have been changed)

"Bill is wanting to book flights already and wants to know names for your guests. Please let me know." Something tells me he made the exact same request near exactly a year ago as there is a large event where I'll see one of the promoter partners - same as I did last year this coming weekend - where I told him I was meeting someone (Wild Girl) tomorrow but I won't have a name for awhile yet and can he please get "Bill" to back off? I guess I just have to crack it up to "Bill" is Bill and he's not going to change. He doesn't need to book flights 7 months in advance.

Interesting how I've hardly even thought about it. I think I got it out of my system last year. Did see and talked with Wild Girl's parents this past weekend. Nothing really to report. Was in Nashville a few weeks ago, in St. Louis a week after that. Out of town but still in state at the overnight event that started things with WG this past weekend. Again, nothing really to report with all of it. I've got about zero ambition to date. Got lots of thoughts I guess, or at least some thoughts. Could regale my travel stories, or family events, or outings with friends but again, not really much to report. Oh well.
Posted By: TBSakaJ9

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 06/11/19 09:13 PM

My two best friends live in Nashville, went there last summer to see Skynyrd and Bad Company. What a show!
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 06/11/19 11:32 PM

Well Don, I don't think I'd plan for a date for the next cruise - honestly, it seemed so uber-stressfull last time. I'd just buck up and share a room. Maybe you'll pick up a girl on the ship this time!

AS for dating elsewhere - only you will know if that's wht you want to do, but do remember how much you did enjoy having a part-time companion for a while. I think you're ready but agree it's a lot like work looking.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 08/20/19 07:29 PM

While I've not updated here much at all, nor really posted all that much, I have still been reading along rather consistently and throwing out a few comments here and there. Last year I wore pretty much everyone down with what a friend IRL called "CruiseGate 2019" LOL. I said I'd try not to do that this time around together with not driving myself crazy, and have done a great job of both - both here and IRL - perhaps to my detriment...

I've just had very little ambition to date. I've met a few women here and there but as picky as I am, I didn't really pursue anything and am sure didn't give off any "I'm interested" scent. Interesting how another very regular poster here wrote that all it takes is for a woman, pretty much any women, to show a little interest and he's in. Not much else matters. While that has down sides all over the place (that I won't go into now) a little part of me wishes I had at least some of that in me. I just don't. I need the entire package - not just looks and size but brains, intellect, interests, personality. morals, values, temperament, Etc. Give me the best looking woman I've ever seen but if she could not carry a conversation beyond 10 minutes I'd give a hard pass on her.

I don't know what I was thinking... I guess just that like last time nature would take over and it would all just fall into place. Funny thing, it was exactly one year ago to today (perhaps within a few hours) that I asked Wild Girl to go on the cruise. I say this is interesting (and figured it out) after the happenings of the past 72 hours. Trying to keep it short, it started on Friday when I was told they need a name TODAY. I'm like - can't do it. Even if I were to ask one of the three I'm considering, they are all at work and I can't just call, ask and say "I need to know right now." I heard nothing more and when I asked on Sunday at the gig with this band, the leader had not heard anything either. It was then I figured out he booked us nearly a year ago.

Enter CruiseGate 2020 - - - Those of you who road this ride with me last year may remember I was very concerned about the dynamics and personalities involved. After meeting this goof last year many of those feelings were confirmed. Now they have been confirmed in stone. I open my email yesterday and see my flight along with 2 others had been booked!!!! I'm like WTF??? Evidently, the old crusty goof with a caustic East Coast personality, who really needs to retire, decided he was not going to wait for Don when he had a whim to book and just booked my flight anyhow. He said he'd give me a $350 allowance to book my date/guest/friend/FWB on my own. Again WTF. I would have pulled out right then and there and forced his hand but the band leader strongly went to bat for me - saying that was not the deal. Plus I'm supposed to take someone then have her fly by herself, take her own luggage and get herself to the hotel the night before sailing to meet up with me. Nice. But true to his bafoonism, he booked us a nice direct flight to Fort Lauderdale on the way down and a pretty nice direct flight back to New Jersey on the way back. Um yeah, we don't live anywhere near New Jersey. I'm guessing even a few of year were thinking, "New Jersey, I didn't think Don lived on the East Coast." LMAO. What an idiot but it forced him to cancel those flights and give me what he should have given me right away. I now have until September 15th to get him a name and he will book all of us together then.

At least I know the rules now. I still don't have a clue what I'm going to do and while I always will take input, it's been well proven that I either see this differently or readers just don't get it. I'm not going to take a guy, I'm not going to go alone - especially now. There is no way in you know what I'm about to gift this A-hole back by him pocketing flight $$$ and the amount he will save on a single cabin (small as it is - but he will save a few hundred). So to more or less write him out a check for $500+ is not going to happen.

I've expanded my list of potentials by a factor of nearly three - including a few many states away from me and female friends with no romantic interest. There are two or three women I've dated in the past, two FWB and three or four friends - some of which could become FWB or even dating material I guess but I'm thinking of them as friends. Thing is, I just don't feel it with any of them. I mean obviously - if I did, I'd still be dating them, or dating them for the first time. And even Sept 15 leaves four months until launch. At least that's more in the reasonable range but as we've seen here, a lot can happen in four months.

I may lay them all out in detail here - or i may not. I guess if inquiring minds want to know... While I really am taking all of this just fine... it does stink that an otherwise really golden opportunity get's so badly tarnished because I don't have a wife or GF. Just not fair. Actually makes me appreciate having met my ex W as at that time in my life I was doing all sorts of travel and so was she. We'd take one or perhaps two vacations on our own dime but the other often three or four trips were paid for by my work or hers - including the many cruises I ran and free trips I "won" through work. I can't imagine having gone through this three times a year - and perhaps giving up free travel and going by myself. That was at least one very good point about being married/having a GF. The other thing is, drama a few weeks prior aside, Wild Girl really was the perfect date. We got along great, didn't have a single disagreement, everyone else loved her and keep in touch yet now, had a good experience being with someone for 10 straight days. So she did set a kinda of high bar - at least higher than my current list can meet.

The rest of my life has been going well. Got a lot of work done on my yard and deck. Been just busy enough to keep me engaged but not so busy (or so quiet) for it to be a problem. Have traveled all over this year - starting with the cruise in January, Netherlands in April, Nashville over Memorial Day, St. Louis, Florida and booked back to perform in Nashville again in November before cruise #2 in January 2020. So life is good. Just no S.O. to live it with. Oh and Wild Girl - - - got a great update there but I'll save it for next time. I guess I misread her - well at least in part - . Go figure. But first, I need to figure out Cruise Gate 2020!
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 08/20/19 07:39 PM

Tease! You gotta finish the update on Wild Girl!

As for Cruisegate 2020 - since you don't seem to be seriously looking for someone to date at present, I'd consider just bringing a female friend (with or without benefits) and be done with it. Why put yourself though so much anxiety again?
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 08/21/19 06:19 PM

I guess that wasn't nice to tease like that was it? I just didn't want to make my typical long post even longer. As for CruiseGate 2020. I very much agree with you, KML, and that's where I'm headed - looking likely to a female friend with or without benefits or the potential of to hopefully be able to go. I've got about 25 days and counting to figure it out.

As for Wild Girl... I don't want to repeat too much, hopefully the regulars remember some details about her and others can look back at older posts. But she was D'd for about 10 years, seemed to have walls up, didn't seem to be looking for a LTR or marriage, etc. That said, I did get the feeling she longed or at least considered having another baby - even at 43 to 45. She also had a history of picking some loser guys - duschebags as she called them.

So following the cruise, at first we had regular communication - well a couple times a week is what I mean by that. That lasted for about a month but as it appeared I was clearly being kept for Plan B and having somewhat lost interest, and then just naturally, things fell off. Since January I had seen her in person twice - once for her brithday within a month after the cruise and then in June after I found another piece of clothing of hers. We talked on the telephone twice - that last was for my birthday in April and texted now and then. So really no communication in months. Our last text had been 6 or 7 weeks prior - her texting me to tell me it was her dad's B-day and her parents would be in the audience at a large event I was gigging at. She knew we'd sing happy birthday to him from stage. We texted a bit during that day but that was it.

Imagine my shock when I got a text from her new BF saying something like - "This is Butt Head, Wild Girls boyfriend. Wild Girl and her girls live with me now. She's not been available since the end of last year. I want you to put a lot of distance between you and Wild Girl. It's time to move on Don." At first I was like, whoa, what did I do? My next thought was, dude your text is 6 months too late!!! I thought perhaps there was more communication than I thought - I checked and clearly not. So of course the first thing I did was text Wild Girl. Turns out he broke into her phone or in some way read our texts without her knowing and had another meltdown. That's how he got my #. Now there was nothing to see since the cruise - but if he went back far enough he clearly got an eye full both in text and pics. But this was a year ago. I'm like WTF. She said he was being protective - I said it sounded more like possessive. Evidently she told him we are just friends and she was not going to stop being friend with me. So evidently not being able to get her to comply with what he wanted, he'd try controlling me. With a little help from Ginger I crafted a response basically saying, look i don't control your GF or who she is friends with. Don't put me in the middle of your problems - you need to work this out with your GF. I added that I was the least of his problems as we've not had much communication at all.

In talking more with her and with her BFF, it's again clear he's rather controlling. Her BFF has not seen her much this summer at all. Remember the cruise was the end of January. She moved in with him in June. Perhaps not fast by some standards but clearly by mine. To my surprise she came to the state fair again with her parents a few weeks ago. Others from the cruise were there including one of my best female friends who she had bonded with. She told her she hopes to get married next year. When my friend said, wow that's fast, and asked what she sees or why he's "the one," she could not really answer. "he bought me a kayak was one response." "We both like the outdoors" was another. She asked if the kids love him. She said they like him - but not love him? my friend said. She just smiled. I got the strong sense that D18 didn't even move with them. She's been bunking with friends and others until heading to the dorms for her first year of college. D18 is very sharp and a much better judge of people and other things than her mom.

It's not at all my issue and I've not really thought much since. Obviously, it took this long for me to even tell the story. It's just not on my radar, but wow, did I misread her. One of my friends said early on he thought she was just telling me what I wanted to hear. Remember she'd always say we are just hanging out - not dating, etc. I fear she's repeating what happened with her ex H and ex BF. Both slowly isolated her and controlled her. She now needs him for a place to live. Being a single mother with a modest income, one starting college, I think the fact he owns a business and seems to be financially set like me is a huge factor. I think she was much more lonely and desperate than I thought. I would not be surprised if she tries to have another baby. But I also would not be surprised if things abruptly fall apart too. Remember this guy had a live-in GF immediately prior to chasing Wild Girl. He's 42 and I think never married. Now, I expressed concerns all along. I said she was somewhat broken. She clearly is challenged by the truth. I just figured she was content with the casual we had and didn't want more with anyone. Now I'd bet that if I had love bombed her or even just said I wanted more she would have been all in. Of course that's not what I wanted so I have zero regrets of how I handled things. I just misread things. Or is this just the norm - this is what every woman wants - even when she doesn't think it's what she wants? I'm beginning to wonder.

Anyhow, I still see her parents often and her aunt somewhat often. It was fun for what it was. Once again, however, it's not what they say - it's what they do!!!!!
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 08/21/19 06:56 PM

I wouldn't assume she would have been all in if you had love bombed her. She kept you at arms length from the beginning.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 09/13/19 06:38 PM

Just when you think something is all coming together... No, "cruisegate" is not like what Ginger or Andrew have been through but still. I've been rather proud of myself in how I've handed things this year. Maybe it's because, everything considered, last year turned out pretty much like I had hoped, at least in the end, and I got it out of my system? I clearly have not been putting that much effort in and the effort I have put in I've not reported here. A few weeks ago I actually went out on three dates in one week. That might be more dates than in the last six months. Interesting what a deadline can do for one's motivation. Read my 8/20/19 post above for how the deadline finally was even provided. Yes, that deadline is supposed to be this Sunday or more likely this Monday. We'll see if it holds or not. They've already extended things for the general public to October 8 so perhaps this extended deadline will apply to me too? However, at this point I'm just kinda over it.

So I was pretty quiet here and even to most all of my friends. I finally made some decisions with four women and decided to put it into action. For the longest time I wasn't even sure I'd be able to make a decision short of throwing a dart at a board with names on it. But then #1 started to emerge somewhat clearly as the front runner, at least in my mind. I've known her for like 6 or 7 years. We've casually dated or "hung out" now and then. I see her like 10 times a year maybe a little less? She's not had a BF in that time. D'd for about 10 years, S18 and D16. She knew about last year and even about Wild Girl and seemed very excited when I asked her to go. I asked her in person so I could see body language, etc. She was clearly excited and interested. However, she already has a trip booked to Florida at the end of January - so like a week after we'd get back. Her D16 I guess doesn't like it at all when mom goes away, in part because then she has to take care of the dog and really doesn't want to. #1 even commented "I've not even told her about my end of January trip yet." Really, another mother afraid of her kids? WTF? Still, she was clearly very excited and somewhat flattered that I asked her. I asked if she could let me know within a few days. It really all made great sense on paper. She's self employed so can get time off, kids are old enough, no husband or BF, age appropriate (I think she's near 50). Not a head turner but cute and fit. I was cautious enough not to tell anyone but was already thinking, wow if this works out, it was really easy - no drama, not much anxiety, it sort of all just felt very natural and I even felt good about asking her - like I really made the right decision. I also figured if she really didn't want to go she'd just have said so right away and her body language would have shown it. She even texted about 24-hours later - a good sign I thought. "So I decided I shouldn't go [sad face emoticon] I can't miss more work in January and also the kid/dog thing. It sounds like an amazing time and I'm bummed I can't make it happen! Thank you again... blah blah blah" Didn't really see that coming, but okay I'll move onto #2.

#2 is a FWB although we've only done the friends thing for about three years now. She had a BF about the time I met Wild Girl until this Spring and I've only seen her a couple of times this summer. We get along well although I'm not hugely attracted to her but not unattractive either. She is a meeting planer/convention management for a large company with events around the country. She works from home most of the time and doesn't have to travel all too much anymore. Never married, 46, no kids. Not nearly as outgoing or bubbly/friendly as #1 but I know her pretty well and it would be fun. Did this one on the phone. She didn't seem as excited as #1 but defiantly interested and again knows my life, the last cruise, etc. She's never been on a cruise and I even tried to get her to go in 2013 - the last large group cruise I ran. When is it?, she asks. Turns out, her largest client has their event starting Thursday of the cruise. Just no way she cannot be there - not even worth asking at work about. Hmmmm okay, I guess we'll move to #3

#3 I've known for 30 years. We dated but she may have been a teen then? She's the niece of a former best friend who died suddenly 15 years ago. She lives out West but her and I reconnected when i did gigs out there a few years ago and have gone out when I was there and she comes here. Her mom still lives in my area. I don't think she's ever been married. Has not dated anyone in a long time, doesn't even try. Yet she's very pretty, somewhat outgoing. perhaps a bit quirky but hides it well. Even some of the people on the cruise will know her (from years ago) and she knows them. Except, she's taking her mom and dad on a two week cruise to Greece this October. She started a new job (after 20 years at her previous one) this March and had to really negotiated to even get time off for October - including giving up a pay check for one of the weeks. She's not yet a firm no but doesn't see any way she can get another 6 days off in January. By now I'm starting to think, you've got to be kidding me!!!

#4 Which, there really was not a firm #4 but I thought, well maybe things happen for a reason and I should try the newly D'd friend of my brother and SIL. Might be a bit of a stretch but we've known each other for about 8 years, she's vacationed with my brother and SIL. She's fully D'd now. Sounds like her husband cheated but no one wants to come out and completely confirm that. Just turned 49, pretty, tall, (a little taller than me I think) very outgoing, loves to travel, makes friends easily. However, the kids ( I think 9 and 11) are not doing well with their new life at all. She just moved into a new home, D9 refuses to stay with ex H (no abuse or anything like that, that I can tell) They have 50/50 custody but again the child seems to be running the show and getting her way. Still, I totally understand - and it's hell for a 9 year old who if the adults didn't see anything coming, the kids likely didn't either. I guess she even pulled out of an overnight girls trip due to it. Both my SIL and brother said "I don't think that would be a good idea." I had come to that conclusion after hearing my SIL tell the story before they even said it. So I didn't even bother asking her - though I'm rather certain it would not work or if she did accept, bad things and drama would happen between now and then. Just not the right time.

#5 or Plan E - um yeah, I really have no #5 or Plan E. I mean I guess I do but was out with one in that run of three and was board after a couple hours - what might 9 days and 8 nights be like? So no. I guess that means Plan E is to go back to the crusty old guy and see what he says. If he can give me until October 8 that will help but not a whole lot. Otherwise I'll just take my chances and if someone pops up figure out how to get them down to Florida. Especially if I take someone like the girl out west or another possibility now living in Florida or someone on say the East Coast, as long as we can get them down there and back, the name on the cruise cabin won't matter. If they fight me on wanting to force me into a room mate I'll not go. That will create a whole other set of issues but I'm not sharing a cabin with someone I do not know. I'd be better off taking the boring girl who at least I do know. When I added it all up for #1 it totals very close to $2,000. It will kill me to more or less light 2K on fire. It will beyond kill me to put more than $500 into the pocket of the goofy jerk that tried to force things three weeks ago.

It's really sad how such an amazing gift like this brings stress and heartache. I guess I was luckier having wild girl than I realized. I have such an amazing life in so many ways. How many people would kill to have a job that allows them to bring someone on a $2K vacation - yet I can't give it away. Yes, this is my sarcastic personality coming through - at least 95% of it is - but what kind of loser can't even find a date for a free week long cruise? Now, don't correct me on this - i know that's not really the case - I'm almost totally joking about that - I know it has a lot to do with being as picky as i am and not actively trying to date - but a tiny part of me is still like... WTF.

Will talk with the others this weekend and then find out what the promoter has to say likely on Monday. I already knew this year would not be as much fun as last - not as many people I know going, not as many fun people I know who are going, Not taking someone I'd dated for 5 months straight and spent 4 or 5 weekends with so I completely knew we were compatible and ended up having a really great time together. So I knew this would not be as good as the last. Didn't think it would end up like this though.

Hope you all enjoyed the reading. I'll let you know if anything develops.
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 09/13/19 07:21 PM

Geez, you're jinxed!
Posted By: Dawn70

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 09/13/19 07:35 PM

You know, bringing someone on a $2000 vacation IS awesome. That is a GREAT "benefit" for lack of a better word. But from the other side of the equation, I can also see where that could be pretty intimidating and you would have to ask just the right person. Sure, you are offering someone a VERY nice opportunity, but you are also asking them to share a room with you and take a week off work and away from their normal life. Now, before you say I didn't read your post and understand your options, I DID read and I DO understand the options you laid out and you clearly know all these women and have shared intimacy with at least part of them, but my point here is that while it is indeed an amazing offer, it might be overwhelming. Like #4, I don't get the sense that you have had an intimate relationship with her, despite knowing her for a number of years, so that might be kind of overwhelming for her to think about, particularly if she hasn't been divorced for very long.

Sorry none of the options you had hoped were viable didn't work out. Here's hoping you find a suitable option SOON or get more time to look.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 09/19/19 09:11 PM

Just saw this meme - and if only I could post it here! I'm still laughing typing this. Here's what it said:

Dating after 40 is easy.
It's like riding a bike.
But the bike is on fire.
And the ground is on fire.
Everything is on fire,
Because you're in hell!
Posted By: pinn

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 09/19/19 09:17 PM

Note to pin.... you have 2 years left haha!
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 09/20/19 12:43 AM

Posted By: Ginger1

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 09/20/19 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by pinn
Note to pin.... you have 2 years left haha!

Iím one year away!

But itís been h3ll since 30, so I guess Iím used to it
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 10/07/19 08:23 PM

So, this past Friday evening I'm out performing at one of what sure seems like a couple dozen Oktoberfests - about half the bands I gig with are a solid fit for these types of events so I'm beyond busy the last weeks of September and first weeks of October. Anyhow, it's outside at a really cool town that I've driven through many times but never through the town square area - it was really a cool little town. Has really nothing to do with my story but thought i'd add it. The town is only like a half hour from me and not all too far from where i went to high school.

Anyhow, we take a break and as I'm standing chatting with the drummer, this woman comes out of pretty much nowhere and says "are you Dave" I'm like well close but no, not Dave. Oh, she says, are you a firefighter? So now I'm like hmmmmm, well you are on the right track, I used to be (for nearly 25 years), but still not Dave and tell her my name. She then names the fire department I was with. She goes on to tell me, after confirming I really am who she thought I was, that I used to come to her grade school (which she named) for fire prevention. "I had such a crush on you" she says. Then she goes onto say "and then... i got a bee sting at the {local town fair] and you took care of me - I was in heaven." LOL. Now mind you she had to have been like between 8 and 12 at the time I would guess and I was anywhere between 25 and about 40. I've not done a fire prevention presentation in at least 15 years so this had to be no less than 15 and as much as 25 years ago. She had some single digit age kids with her, not sure if they were hers or not. Sadly, she was gone nearly as fast as she appeared. I wish I could have found out more - like how long ago this was and how in the heck she even recognized me!!!!! I mean for some 10 year old now maybe 30 year old to remember me from that long ago. She really should have had no idea I was a musician as well - I me how could she - she even had the wrong name - but I guess I've not changed much or have aged very well.

Just thought I'd use this little story as an opportunity to post something on my own thread, since I so rarely do. I was so flattered and told her so. it's nice to know at least someone appreciates all of the time and effort and work i put into the local volunteer fire department. Yes, this happened at my volunteer agency - not my paid job for many years. Also so glad she said something. I wished I would have gotten a picture with her. Maybe if we get the gig back again next year I'll get a second chance. At least I got her name - Katy - and yes it's her real name - i mean why not, it's not like I could even locate her again much less any of you! LOL Made my night though. Too bad it was not one of Katy's teachers - I would have followed up on that!!!! Perhaps she would have wanted to go on a cruise with me next January smile
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 10/14/19 06:22 PM

That's a fun story Don! I had something similar happen to me years ago, some young lady asked me if I remembered her and embarrassingly I didn't but she said she had had a huge crush on me. She went out of her way to clarify that she didn't anymore, hahaha! I told her that was very disappointing, and we had a good laugh about it grin
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 10/21/19 11:09 PM

Ooooofta, just so many things in life that make my smack my forehead with the palm of my hand. These things don't directly involve me but thought I'd just journal about them and perhaps entertain a few of you or even spur some comments. If you're board (or interested) read on, but if you're looking for anything directly about me, you won't find it in this post.

I've had a female friend for hmmmmm I'd say maybe 8 or 9 years now. She was married to a longer-time friend of mine I've known from the music business. She's now around 43 I think and he's the same age as me at 56. They D'd just under two years ago now after separating for a few months, two years prior to that. I've also helped her through opiate addiction - which she seems to still be doing well in recovery from. They have two kids, now S14 and D9.

Anyhow, shortly after their D she announces she's moving in with a guy she met in 12-step. BAD IDEA! This has NO written all over including from 12-step itself and she was told this by many, including her sponsor who quit as her sponsor over it, but nope she knew best and this guy was great and his kids were great and it's all going to be wonderful. Then somewhat abruptly, as if the rest of this was not abrupt enough, they decided to fly off to Vegas to officially tie the knot. They are totally different people - and again it's an age span of 12 to 14 years with him being the age of her ex. I may have even written about her. At first they were not even going to tell the kids - just go and come back married. Thankfully at least they let the kids know first. That was last year in July.

I've much more distanced myself from her as I just can't deal with her craziness anymore. She's a very nice person and would give you the shirt off your back but just can't get her life together for some reason. So two weeks ago I get some late night texts saying her husband walked out and they are getting D'd. Of course I'm not just going to leave her hanging so I quickly responded. True to form by the time she responded back to me with any substance they had decided to "work it out" and she was returning back home. I said, I thought he walked out.... well not the total truth I guess. Anyhow, long story short, we finally got on the phone yesterday as she tells me "It's really hard trying to blend two families and it doesn't work like the Brady Bunch." Ha, really, no kidding! Her S14 has now moved in with her ex H full-time because he and her new husband don't get along at all. As for my friend and her new H, they have totally different interests, totally different parenting styles, different outlooks, just basically are two very different people living on very different plains as the marriage counselor they went to see put it.

They clearly should have never gotten married which they both now fully admit - only now it's too late. S14 is struggling with all sorts of things and if I had to guess is right on the edge of real trouble as with every passing year he has the capacity to get into real trouble. In the single digits they are still pretty easy to control and it's just temper tantrums and outbursts, etc. but into the teens it can become thefts and vandalism and drinking and drugs and who knows what else.

To her credit, I think, she's trying to make this M work but I think she knows it's not going to - like pretty much anyone who would look into this sitch. She's her own worst enemy, simply cannot stop acting on impulse and get her proverbial stuff together - even in her mid 40s. Perhaps even more frustrating (to me) is she is again telling me the exact same things she told me going into her first D two years ago. "I don't even know who I am, I need to figure out me and be by myself" as she fell right into a new R and just had to get married. So now, it's the same shtick "I need to figure out me and just be by myself" OMG it makes my head spin.

Then there is the College Dean. Anyone remember her from, oh, a little over a year ago? She's best friends with the sister of a very good friend of mine. I know the sister as well (Dean's BFF) but not as much. So anyhow after her D was final, and while I was trying to find someone to do the cruise last Spring, they both brought me up and suggested we should meet to which the Dean wisely said "I just got divorced I really don't think I want to date or should date this soon." I thought that was so insightful and very smart and it gave her extra points in my book. Add to it at least on paper she seemed like a great person - obviously educated, married many years, great career, great kids, some shared interests with me, even bought a house on a lake near me - so lived close by. The fact she is very pretty didnt' hurt either. Clearly what you see on paper, or in pictures...

I happened to be with my friend and her sister a week ago. I had mostly forgotten about the Dean but somehow it all popped back into my head and I asked, hey is your friend still dating that guy? Clearly without any excitement in her voice, she said "She's engaged" to which I burst out laughing. I mean, to me it's funny. Doesn't want to date yet marries the first and only guy she goes on a date with. Her friend somewhat seriously and sternly responded, "It's not funny Don." I don't know the guy, heck I don't know her, but obviously there is something going on there with her. Her friends are worried for her and probably for good reason. What are the chances that after 23 years married she meets the next love of her life in the very first and only try. Yes, it could happen - in theory - but really, what are the odds? We didn't go into any further detail but this BFF is clearly worried for her friend.

These are just two examples from real life, but then read the boards here, talk to friends, watch television, and wow, just wow, this post D world is just crazy. I'm not fully there yet but have to consider, are we just all screwed? I know Ginger's with me LOL. But why don't people learn from their mistakes? The drive for the fairy-tale must just be so strong - almost like a drug, it's intoxicating. I know, not everyone is like that - clearly KML is not and there are others. But it's just amazing people watching. My friend in the first example, yeah, that one is easy - who could not see that coming. It's almost like watching an episode of Before the 90 Days or 90-Day Fiance. But I would have thought more of this other girl - especially after saying it's too soon to date. Or perhaps she was shown a picture or told about me and she just didn't have any attraction so it "being too soon" was just her excuse. I'm like, wow, dodged yet another bullet. But there are so many people out there like this. And then there are others, at least that I know IRL, who won't date at all and have been single and more or less dateless for years and years. I can think of a half dozen right off the top of my head.

I've got to tell you, all of this doesn't make it easier for me to have optimism. On the plus side it allows me to put my life in perspective and it looks pretty good when placed up against those benchmarks. Anyhow. I hope this was not too much mindless dribble and someone get's something out of it. If not, watch one of the 90 Day Fiance shows on Sunday or Monday nights and you'll see what I'm talking about. Then see if you don't find actual people in your life just like them!
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 10/21/19 11:43 PM

Yeah, that's crazy [censored]. But you know what, those same crazy people were doing that same crazy stuff when we were younger, it's just that the dating pool is full of more of them and fewer of us monogamous uncrazy types.

That doesn't mean you can't meet people - but it might mean you need to sort through more (and may have to put up with other kinds of crazy. I'll be posting about CMM on my thread soon lol.)

As for the Dean marrying the first guy she dated - yeah, she didn't shop around and doesn't sound like her friends are thrilled about him. Still, on the subject of odds, if the first guy I dated after my divorce had A) not been a Love Avoidant and B) not taken back up with his childhood love, he was still one of the most compatible guys I have dated since my divorce. Got lucky I guess.

You can't go by me though because I absolutely do not understand all these people rushing to get into second or third marriages. Maybe my ex just burned me out but I have NO interest in remarrying.
Posted By: pinn

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 10/22/19 02:23 AM

Interesting stories Don. There are a lot of stories like that. For the record, I love that dumb show. It oddly fascinates me and I am not even exactly sure why. I guess I wonder.... are these people legitimately doing this or is it just for TV?? If it is real, it blows my mind.

Anyway, I am one of the ones who has been single for a bit... well relatively short for down here I guess. Separated 4 years, divorced for 2... with very little dating mixed in there. BUT I could totally see myself getting serious with the first woman I date from here on out. The reason is that I know exactly what I want and exactly what I don't want (maybe I only think I know hmmm). So if and when I find that, I won't let it go easily. I'm certainly selective. I do wonder if that is good or bad though. I really don't know and I do think about it. I guess I could date more as I have confidence that I would not fall for someone unless it was right. Who knows. The one thing I do know is that life moves quick.

On the falling for someone quick front, I just recently got back from Maui. On the trip, my sister briefly connected with some guy. Now her social media has quotes about 'taking risks' etc. I'm thinking... don't you even think about it!!! arrrgh.
Posted By: JujuB

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 10/22/19 01:20 PM

I donít know Don. I think the thing thatís hard for logistical minded people or maybe people that were hurt or trying to not be hurt is that there is no linear formula to follow when it comes to relationships and love.

On my parents first date, my dad asked my mom ďwhat do you think our children would look like?Ē Huge red flag. But they have been happily married - absolutely no drama- for over 40 years.

My ex husband made sure he waited 3 days to call me after our first date. We waited 3 years to move in. Another 4 years to get married. And 1 year to have a kid. Guess what? He was leading a double life and now Iím too old to have more kids. Because I followed this linear formula.

Now, for people that are looking for that person to grow old with ... I think Dating does help people to figure out what they donít want in someone. What they wonít settle for. And for people that keep following similar patterns in partners itís important to break that cycle too. But you canít lump everyone into that category. Some people just find the right person early and know a good thing when they see it - and just as there are unsuccessful stories there are positive stories out there too. Point being - thereís no guarantee of success with any method of dating and relationships.

And then Some people donít really want to find the right person but the right for now person as they are not looking for commitment. So that comes into play as well.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/07/19 01:06 AM

I had been sorta proud of myself. Certainly compared to last year, I've not been nearly as amped up over this upcoming cruise. I've not been nearly as excited either. I also sorta gave up trying to find someone several times along the way- coinciding with "deadlines" that I was given which turns out were never actual deadlines anyhow - which I pretty much knew all along. For those who were not here last year (consider yourself lucky) or to refresh... last year they had Wild Girl and myself booked along with the rest of our core group, flights and all, already by the end of August. A bit of drama ensued with Wild Girl in December/early January but in the end it all worked out pretty well and much as I had hoped. I guess I should have considered myself lucky - little did I know.

I finally asked the first person for this year in early September - again after last year was already set. That was a no go. I then passed on #2 and asked #3 who was already on a two week vacation that included a cruise in October and could not get off of work again in January. So onto #4 who is a FWB I've known for awhile but have not seen since early summer. She was excited until she found out her largest account had an event starting during the cruise - so no go. By this time I figured it was too late anyhow and sort of gave up again. BTW, there were probably another 5 women that I considered asking but after not wanting to spend a day with them I could not imagine a week.

Move to early November when i'm given yet another deadline, might have been my 3rd or 4th "deadline" - this time November 18 and could include someone local as the flight that was oversold now had seats available. I had sort of just been trying for people who didn't have to fly with me - as in from other states or areas. As I asked #5 and #6, #4 came back and said she had a co-worker willing to cover for her and her boss was fine with it as long as the client would sign off. A few days later we found out the client would not sign off so no go again - oh and she's back with a former BF so no go on two levels. #5 also could not (or would not) make it work. #6, who I wanted to go nearly as much as #1, took about 3 weeks to finally give me an answer but in the end said thanks but no thanks. So now I was really done - but pretty good with going solo, or so I thought.

I really was or am or sorta am in a good place with it. I got what I wanted last year so maybe I kind of got it out of my system. Although then people start asking me "who's going on the cruise with you" and look at me like I have two heads or some sort of disease when i tell them no one. Like what kind of loser can't even get a date for a cruise? Hold the 2X4s I really don't feel this way so you don't have to tell me why i shouldn't - yet I kinda think some of them do. Some feel sorry for me, especially SIL and some other family members - which I think is even worse.Still, I was doing pretty good - or perhaps just forcing myself not to think about it?

Still I've been pretty fine about it all - heck you guys all know how much I posted and posted and wore friends out last year and this year I've been pretty silent about it all both here and IRL. Well, until now I guess. I go to the mailbox this afternoon and here is my cruise info - well sorta... I have no cabin info. Got my flight (which doesn't get us to Florida until 6 PM the night before rather than 11 AM like the original flight was. Guess we can live with that but it kinda kills the day. Got hotel and transfer info but no cabin info - nothing. I'm like ????? did they forget to put it in the mail? (this old guy mails everything even though he could totally email it and actually prints emails to mail them to me LOL) So I check with the band leader, yep he and his wife have their cabin number and instructions to log in and print their documents. So I text the guy running the show - the old guy who I don't trust that mails things - the guy who is already saving $500 or more on the flight I was given, plus gratuity, taxes, etc. that won't have to be paid on the wasted free cruise that I can't seem to give away. "I'm still working on who to pair you with" comes back the text - and my heart sank. I'm like huh? Pair me with? Yep, He's not happy enough saving $500 if he can save $1,200 more by having some other random single guy among the 500 plus going that he can throw me in with. NO F'ING WAY!!!

Somehow I remained professional and let him know that is not going to happen. He then tried to change it to, "oh no I mean if you still find someone to go with you" as in don't believe what I tried to tell you a minute ago, believe what I'm saying now. I then got, "Well I'm just about to leave the office for the weekend but we'll get it straightened out on Monday."

Ain't happening dude. You are not putting me with some random guy for the week - as if. Talk about totally killing any semblance of looking forward to this trip. Divorce and being single - the gift that just keeps on giving. Talk about taking the fun out of it all. And I don't want to be a Donny Downer but I can just tell how all this is shaping up that this is not going to be even close to as much fun as last year. Not only not taking someone and wasting a free vacation which just chaps my butt to no tomorrow, many of the fun friends from last year are not going either.

So I'm just trying to calm myself and wait to find out what he tries to sell me, er um I mean tell me on Monday. He did say I could add someone to the cabin at the last minute so perhaps he really did mean that - although then why say find someone to pair me with - was he testing that to see if I'd go for it? Will see. I know the band leader will stand behind me - and I'm helping out another band on top of it - yeah doing double duty - so I should have some pull. I can get good with going alone, at least I think I can - I hope I can. But, I can't get good with rooming with some stranger OMG. Although his daughter is in her late 40s, pretty cute and fun - maybe I should tell him i'll room with her and her BFF???? I could take that. smile Oh, there, see, sense of humor still in tact. Hmmmmm maybe I need to consider finding #7 to ask?????? I am so good at being single but it's times like these that I'm really tested. Then I start to think back to how amazingly fun last year was. But I digress.

And Cruisegate #2020 continues.
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/07/19 02:17 AM

Wonít there be single women on the cruise? And donít you need your own room so you could fool around with them?

Also, you need to start dating older retired women who have plenty of time to go on cruises.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/07/19 11:41 PM

Even if there were not women I could potentially fool around with, there is just no way I'd ever even consider sharing a cabin with someone I don't know - not a dude anyhow. As for retired, um, yeah, i don't think so. I've always for some reason done better with younger or perhaps I'm attracted to younger - even in my 20s. Although my exW was near my age. I just don't think someone 10 years or more my senior is going to float my boat - a few years older sure and I have dated women olden than me but I already act like a 30 year old much of the time so...

But beyond that, just who did I P's off to be getting this bad karma. If nothing else I'm getting a better understanding and some empathy for what Ginger has been going through when thoughts of her past come up, or someone asks her about M or something pops up on Facebook. Anyhow, I just got back from an afternoon gig for a birthday party. It was in the town Wild Girl used to live in and her parents still do but I had no idea her parents would be there. Her mom still adores me and I'm very friendly with them so all good there - well until I walk over to the table they are at which just happened to be with two other couples who were on the cruise last year and are going again this year. One guy is kind of a goof. He thinks he's funny but I don't see it. He says "We were just talking about you" I'm like Oh Oh, that could go all sorts of ways, "I asked if you were taking their daughter on the cruise again this year." Really? He really had to bring that up. Wild Girl's mom was a bit uncomfortable I could tell, at least I think I handled it okay. But then they want to know who I'm taking and I'm like, well I'm not telling you no one and have that get back to Wild Girl - I mean it's the principle of the thing but I can't lie either as they are going to see me on the ship. I can only imagine what was said before I walked over.

Really? I mean really? What am I being paid back for here? LOL. I was allusive enough with some jokes and the subject got changed. As i've thought about it more, I think it's the fact that this was not my choice. I'm fine with doing all sorts of things by myself, but that is often my choice. This was not at all my choice and that's what bothers me - well that and the fact I had to ask more than 6 women and am still going solo.

Okay, off to perform at another Christmas party tonight. Let's see what this brings me.
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/08/19 02:44 AM

Well I wouldnít be so close minded about older women Don! It hasnít been deliberate but every man but one that Iíve dated since my divorce have been younger. And at least up to ten years younger, my age has been a complete nonfactor. (20 years younger was a different matter, but even then was about different places in life, not an issue with attraction or compatibility otherwise).

In fact an older woman might just be less interested in a relationship and more likely to be happy being a FWB cruise partner. Just a thought.
Posted By: Ginger1

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/08/19 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by kml
Well I wouldnít be so close minded about older women Don! It hasnít been deliberate but every man but one that Iíve dated since my divorce have been younger. And at least up to ten years younger, my age has been a complete nonfactor. (20 years younger was a different matter, but even then was about different places in life, not an issue with attraction or compatibility otherwise).

In fact an older woman might just be less interested in a relationship and more likely to be happy being a FWB cruise partner. Just a thought.

I totally agree. I know you like emí hot and young , but you would really benefit from broadening your horizons. The younger women are still admits raising their families which puts big demands on their schedules. And most are looking for LTR.

What you are looking for would be better suited with a divorced woman with the kids out of the house and sheís looking to have some fun. I work woth a woman like that. Sheís attractive too. Your odds of finding a younger woman with no family commitments and just wanting to hang out and move at the pace you prefer and not finding it online....... well, you must see how very difficult that is, right?

Open your horizons.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/10/19 03:45 AM

I certainly see what you guys are saying and I don't even disagree, but it's not that simple. To begin with, seemingly fitting with younger is nothing new. When i was 27 I had a GF that was 20, so it's not a midlife thing. That said, I have dated older and married a year younger than me. Wild Girl was probably that largest age difference (13 years) and it's not like I purposely look for or go after that. The handful of women I've dated this year have all been closer to my age, although still younger - just within single digits.

The thing is, how do I make myself attracted to something I'm not? Especially how do i make myself sexually attracted? I could certainly see myself being friends with a retired senior citizen but I just am not sexually attracted so it's almost like trying to make myself be interested in red-heads when i have never found that attractive either. It's nothing personal, I just don't like the fair skin, thin red hair. Not even sure why, I just don't find it attractive. That said, it really is much more about the person for me - at least in that it doesn't matter how hot a woman may be, if my brain is not stimulated the rest of me won't be either. Personality really is the biggest attractor - but obviously, just by it's nature, you notice the outside before you get to know the inside.

So I can totally see what you are saying about some of the other aspects fitting - especially perhaps not looking for a husband, having more time, not having teenagers or even younger children. But even so, how do i make myself attracted? I either feel it or I don't. I certainly can try to give more of a chance, although I think I already do. As I've said before and often say to my friends, I'm much more picky than perhaps I deserve to be - I just am and always have been. I've always been quality before quantity. But I also like what I like and fit with what I fit with and I'm not sure how to change that or if it even can be changed.
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/10/19 05:40 AM

Iím not saying you should date someone you donít find attractive. Iím just saying putting a strict age limit on it means you are probably missing out on some older women you WOULD find attractive but arenít meeting.

I happen to know a lot of women in their early sixties who are youthful, pretty, fit and sexy. Pretty sure if you met them youíd think so too. No, not all women that age are, but many will be, so donít miss out on them because of pre-conceived notions. And if you were lucky enough to find one you found attractive, I think you might find the likelihood of them being more suited to what you want out of a relationship is greater than some 40 year old mom of teens.

That being said, I got a ďhi, howíve you beenĒ email from one of my young flings today. This was a guy I had some fun with maybe 8 years ago? Definitely way too young for me and I remember asking him at the time why he was interested in spending time with me. His answer - at least partially true I think - was that I was more interesting to talk to than most women his age. (Other factors Iím sure were that I didnít want anything from him, plus he had a weird background of growing up in a cult. )

My point being though that we remained friends, like I have with most of my lovers, and if I were single again now, Iíd at least consider spending some casual dating time with him. We had a nice connection even though it wasnít going to go anywhere. Heís Avoidant and Iím not interested in anything serious with someone that much younger, yet clearly my advanced age wasnít an issue when it came to having fun together. And frankly, if the sexes were reversed, nobody would think much of a man my age dating a woman his age (heck, the woman my ex married was only a few years closer in age to him).

Iím just saying, youíre probably cutting yourself off from some viable dating prospects if youíre setting a cutoff point just a couple years older than yourself.
Posted By: Ginger1

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/10/19 12:47 PM

Iíve got to say , I know some women in their upper 50ís early 60ís who are very attractive vibrant women. I had a patient yesterday and I couldnít believe she was 66. Beautiful . Active. Told me about her interest in fast cars and how she used to race them . My coworker in her 50ís, attractive, fun, etc.

Maybe you just need to find an older female companion and maybe youíll become attracted to her. Who knows?

You are really super picky and probably boxed out some pretty wonderful women once you get to know them.
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/10/19 02:51 PM

Just as an aside - not saying this is you, Don - I see a lot of guys on OLD who put their desired age range from 20 years younger to - their age. Or their age + 2. Itís kind of ridiculous really, to think youíd be compatible with someone 20 years younger but not 3 measly years older?

I think, for a lot of men, itís about power. Theyíre used to being the ďolder, wiserĒ person in the relationship and donít want to give up that power to be with an equal or, god forbid, someone with slightly more experience or knowledge.

Sure, for younger guys it might be about finding a partner in childbearing years but Iím talking about guys in their 50ís. Now some are definitely delusional about how ďyoung they lookĒ, and apparently think theyíre the unicorn and no woman a few years older could be equally youthful!

(This might sound funny coming from me with my history of dating younger men, but I didnít set out to date younger guys. They just happened to be the ones that worked out. Actually CMM, while a few years younger, is actually older in terms of things like interests, musical tastes, health issues etc. And the ďone that got awayĒ, the first guy I dated after my divorce, was a few years older but with more youthful tastes and interests than most. I think, after childbearing is no longer the point of dating, that people from 45 and up start to diverge quite a bit in terms of their physical and mental aging. Some 55 year olds would be too ďoldĒ for me physically or mentally while some fit and interesting 70 year old might be a better match. Biological age becomes more important than calendar age as those two things start to diverge. )
Posted By: Dawn70

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/10/19 09:38 PM

I'm certainly not in favor of you putting yourself in a situation where you have to "force yourself" to be attracted to someone because that doesn't end well for anyone, but I think G and kml have some good points. If you open up your mind a bit, you might just find that women who are a little older than your normal preference have just as much, if not more than enough, to offer than their younger counterparts. You talk all the time about being avoidant and I would think older women would be much better equipped to deal with someone like you and would handle you in a more mature way. I could totally be way off base, but I think Wild Girl was more of a fluke than the norm among women her age. Branch out...ÖÖ.you might be surprised.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/12/19 02:24 AM

As i think about it more, I dated a 40 year old for nearly a year when I was 30. It was not a typical dating thing (are any of my R's LOL) as she was recently D'd and actually more friends or perhaps FWB than anything but at that time in my life, the 10 years seemed much wider but I was fine with it. I say that just to say it's not always been younger.

I'd also say that I think I am "open" to it. I'm not OLD and have not for awhile now so it's not like I have a filter set. I meet who I meet. I can say this for sure, if I met someone older than me that checked enough boxes I would not stop dating her or not, not date her only because of the age - so I'm firmly in that place already. I for sure could see being with someone 3 or 4 years older than me. I think when we get to 60 and above, at least in this point in time, that's getting a bit out of where I see myself right now - right or wrong.

Originally Posted by Dawn70
I could totally be way off base, but I think Wild Girl was more of a fluke than the norm among women her age. Branch out...ÖÖ.you might be surprised.

I'm intrigued by this but really have no idea what you mean. Can you explain on it? What about WG was a fluke as there could be all sorts of things, including her being the largest age difference. It was a fluke that I became or continued to be more interested than I thought I would be. That's a fluke. But I'm not sure either of those is what you mean so please explain and I'll tell you if you are correct or not.

As for branching out - again, how do I do that? What would I do different than I do now? If I see someone or meet someone I'm interested in, I see where it goes. I don't say, oh she's interesting but she's 59 so I'm not interested. What else can I do to "branch out?"
Posted By: Dawn70

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/12/19 12:58 PM

What I meant by Wild Girl being a fluke has nothing to do with how you felt about her. What I actually meant was someone her age who didn't seem bogged down by looking for a commitment and she seemed to kind of flit easily from you to the next guy but then back to you at cruise time. Maybe I'm wrong. I am a woman, but a straight one, so I don't date women so maybe this is typical behavior, but most women I know in her age group are either married or looking for some type of commitment where she seemed a little more footloose and fancy free, so to speak. At least that was MY interpretation of how you described her. My point was that is more atypical of women her age, but since you have labelled yourself love avoidant and don't really want anything serious, it was the perfect situation for you. By your own admission, if she had been clingy and chased you, you would've quickly lost interest. Nothing wrong with any of that...just seems that is not the typical woman in that age group. That is all I meant by fluke.

As far as "branching out" again maybe this is a semantics thing or maybe it is just my interpretation of what I'm reading, but you seem pretty steadfast against even considering dating older women, saying things like you don't want to force yourself to be attracted to someone. By saying "branch out" I was just meaning to maybe open your mind a bit. I get that you don't automatically shut it off if you hear someone is older than you might think just by seeing them, but in a way, it kind of sounds like you do. Like I said, it is likely semantics and my misinterpretation. I'm just saying keep an open mind. You, probably more than a lot on this board, have the opportunity to meet a high volume of women in all different age ranges and income levels and looking or not looking for specific things. Some might say you are in the catbird seat because you have your pick. Maybe you aren't really conscious of age at all IRL and it is just in your writings here where you can be more open that it comes out that you prefer younger. Not really sure. Again, the short answer that I just made really long is in saying "branch out" I really just meant to keep your eyes and your mind open and you might, at some point, find a 60 year old that knocks your socks off. I mean, look at Sam Elliott...he's like 125, but is totally the sexiest man in the whole entire solar system. wink
Posted By: doodler

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/12/19 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by DonH
As for branching out - again, how do I do that? What would I do different than I do now?

I think Dawn is suggesting that maybe you should go in a different direction. You know, swing the other way. Catch the other bus. Light, comfortable shoes. Dance to the beat of a different drummer.

As far as how to do that; I really can't help you with that one.
Posted By: Coconut

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/12/19 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by doodler

As far as how to do that; I really can't help you with that one.

But rumor is that he may be able to lend you a dress and red fk me pumps.

Don, I agree you only meet who you meet, so maybe the way to do something different is to visit OLD and use a filters to include woman up to 5 or 10 years older than you and see what you find. If what your doing isn't working, then... how does that go again.

Also, someone mentioned guys having ages of interest from 20yrs younger to 2 years older, I just want to add that many woman do the same thing.. I for one will not reach out to them because it leads me to believe that they are looking for short term fun and not a commitment.. So I appreciate when they at least list what they are looking for, it helps me not waste my time. Me personally, I have 10 yrs younger and 5 yrs older as my preferred ages.
Posted By: JujuB

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/12/19 02:56 PM

Regarding wild girl.... didnít she ultimately want another baby? Or am I remembering wrong? If itís true - Then that would have been the fluke.
Posted By: Ginger1

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/12/19 04:04 PM

What dawn said is so on point. 40 year olds with kids arenít usually looking for a very casual no strings attached kind of thing. And if they are itís a short lived thing they are getting out of their system, it ultimately, they arenít looking to live their life that way. So, like wild girl, you got her for a summer, where she was all about the fun, but in the end, she wanted a LTR, even if she isnít faithful in it.

You meet who you meet, yes. But like the others mentioned, maybe finding new venues to meet what you want to attract in. Meetups, different groups, different hobbies. Youíll meet different people
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/12/19 09:45 PM

Wow, lots of good comments - perhaps more feedback and discussion that I've had on my thread in a while. I wish I had firm answers but to much of it I simply do not. Dawn, thanks for clarifying and others thanks for helping. I guess I'm not sure I will ever know what the real truth is. Wild Girl as she would point out herself on more than one occasion said she may not be book smart but she was very street smart. She would sit back and observe and read people and was pretty good at it. So did she read me and simply tell me what she thought I wanted to hear? Perhaps. I got the feeling that she was not looking for serious but perhaps that was her protection mechanism? She clearly went very fast with the current guy she is still with and yes, she may have cheated for a week with me while in international waters, but I don't see any indication she's done that with anyone since - certainly not with me. It's the same with the baby - it was my gut feeling she wanted a baby - she never said as much. Maybe she wanted an R - just not with me. Maybe she wanted an R with me but knew I did not? Maybe she simply felt something with this guy that she never felt before and he is "the one." I really don't know and honestly have no reason to give it all that much thought. She held things very close to the vest. Her mom told me more than once she has always been like that. I am pretty sure that some to many of the things she said were not the full truth - remember, pay attention to what they do, not what they say. About the only thing she told me for sure and said it multiple times, was that the age difference bothered her. Not like she didn't want to be seen with me or anything, just that I was not at all her norm - with her last serious BF being near 10 years younger than her. She even talked with her BFF about that. The rest, I have thoughts but can't be certain.

If Wild Girl was a fluke in the way you guys seem to think, what does that say for me and my dating possibilities? I need another fluke to come along? You may not be wrong as I think the last time I dated the same woman 30 days/30 times (including the 10 days on the cruise) was 5 years ago. If being turned down by, what 6 or 7 women to go on the cruise is another example, yeah, maybe she was a fluke. Those of you who claim 40 year olds with kids only want LTR or mostly want LTR - I guess it could be. I can't help but think and I totally include myself in this statement - that we think most people want the same things that we want - so who knows?

I certainly don't feel like I have as many opportunities as you seem to think I do Dawn. Or maybe I'm missing opportunities? I would say if I'm going to paint with a broad brush and talk in general terms, it's not just women older than me that I am not attracted to - it's most women I meet. Even some that I had an interest in and some cases did ask out, many I've come to clearly determine they were not or are not my match - or I'm not their's. This includes women that I at first thought there could be something there and pursued it - only to find out she's not for me.

As for suggesting I try OLD again... LOL hmmmmm, well, did you happen to see my comments and thoughts on OLD over the years - including some here accusing me of bashing OLD? So I should try it again but set the parameters older? Yeah, I'm not so sure about that one.

I'm mostly just living life. I've not been trying to date, other than the cruise. Maybe I should. If I met someone I was interested in I would pursue her - it's just not really happened, or if it does, there are complications or they are not interested or there are red flags or on and on. I am complex - at least I think I am. I am not a big drinking, party guy - never have been. Yet I don't at all act my age and most people are shocked when they learn my age. I don't think that is just looks I think it's also how I act. I was very mature at 17 and had started my own business by then. I was in many ways 30 or 35 at 17 and am still 30 or 35 now at 56.

But I also have some other life things going on that are shaking me up a bit this week. Perhaps it is time to do some things different with my life. I've been more retired than not for the last 2 years and have not worked full-time now in 10 years. But I'm too young to retire - as I just pointed out in the paragraph above. Finding the right person is a tough order for me. Hmmmmmmm, perhaps Wild Girl was a fluke - in more ways than you or I first thought.
Posted By: JujuB

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/14/19 04:01 PM

I guess what Iím seeing is that you would like to have things happen more organically. I donít get this chauvinistic, player vibe from you. It seems like you are not opposed to monogamy or a partnership - but maybe looking for one that develops naturally. Starting out casually with no forced expectations and then develops into a commitment - but probably not a marriage.

Is that right?

It helps to know what you are looking for but it also helps to know how the world has changed. So what exactly are you looking for? Finding someone the old fashioned way, might be more difficult now a days because of technology. People donít go out open to meeting people anymore, because we are glued to our phones and apps. So it makes it more challenging if you are. Your pool of opportunities becomes smaller and it takes a longer time.

What also makes it more challenging, is the expectation that a random female you come across is gonna be open to casual encounters - and that it can evolve into a relationship without pressure. A lot of females want the stability moving forward a relationship or future. It might not always work that way - but itís usually the goal going in. And yeah, it makes it less free spirited but thatís how a lot of women think. If they are ok with casual - that means they are also looking for something more from someone else while they are with you. I know you say thatís ok. But is it?

What exactly do you want?
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/14/19 04:13 PM

I think (correct me if Iím wrong, Don) that Don would like to have a steady girl who likes sex but gives him a lot of space. Not too different from what Iíd like, actually. Living with CMM is less than ideal and frankly I have no desire to marry or necessarily live with someone. I do like a steady regular sex life, someone to be a sounding board and say good morning and good night, someone to do things with. But I also need time in my life for all my other activities, friends, family, work, hobbies and time alone.

Since you are semi retired Don, I think an equally retired or semi-retired woman could be a good fit, in that sheíd have time for things like cruises, road trips etc. (This is a problem that occurs even in married couples btw where one is retired and one isnít ).
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 12/16/19 07:19 PM

You both are pretty much correct. I'm clearly not chauvinistic or a player - those are both terms I've rarely if ever been called. I also have no need to serial date or date multiples of women - in fact I'd rather not. It's not fun anymore. I used to love to date, now while I can't say I "hate" it I certainly can't say I love it. So as KML somewhat spells it out, I'd be fine with dating the same person - and even steady sex is not a deal breaker - at least I don't think it would be. Little or no sex might be a deal breaker but I have to say I had way more sex with Wild Girl than has been typical, at least in recent years so that level is not a must have - but I clearly won't turn it down. LOL

I also don't have to have it happen "organically." I'd be fine if I met someone through OLD - it's just been my experience that I've never even come close. But much worse, I felt like crap after trying. So I finally decided, i'm not getting anywhere, I'm certainly not finding someone and I feel bad about myself afterwards so at least I can get the same results - which was nearly no results - and not feel depressed and used about it. I may have been going after those out of my league as KML says happens. I could see that. But I've very often dated up. I mean I see people, even here, who clearly are dating down, with some I wonder just who are they turning down for dates. But I am picky and I'm not going to settle and it's just been my experience with OLD you are totally settling and the quality people quickly figure out there are not many other quality people there and they bail. That happens in life. Quality attracts quality whether it be in the job market or meetups or clubs or whatever. People want to be part of something happening and successful and that's just not what I've found in OLD but if I somehow did, I'd be fine with it.

What do I want? I'm not sure. I know more of what I don't want. I'd be fine with getting into a LTR but by MY CHOICE and not by force. Again, that's why the book WMLB speaks to me. The author talks about just this - the women gets what she wants and the guy doesn't even know it happened to him. The more I feel pressured the less I'm going to want to do it. But if not pressured and I find a quality woman I'd want to be with her more often than not, I could totally see myself doing that. But I've heard a couple "celebrity" types talk about this recently. One is a local radio talk show host that used to also fill in for Rush. He's now in his 60s. I've been called his "jr." as we are much alike in many ways. He's never been married and at this point doesn't even try to date. He's done with it all. Yet, interesting enough, he talks more and more on the radio about past GFs - almost like longing for years gone by. He's given up and he's totally fine with it - or so he says. I also heard one of the original guys from the band Chicago. He's been married and D'd 3 or 4 times. When asked recently about getting married again he said "I don't know what I would or even could bring to a M." That is totally me. I don't know what I'd bring. I know what I'd get. But I'm not sure I offer as much. I certainly could. I just need a rather strong, self-confident woman who is happy with herself and doesn't need a guy to complete her. Just that right there - not going to find a lot of those OLD where half the profiles seem to be looking for their soulmate!

But maybe it's time to try again, I don't know. I just don't have the ambition and I think that's a lot of it and I think it shows. For whatever reason, I really tried with Wild Girl. Maybe it was needing someone to go on the cruise with me, I don't know. But even friends were like "dude, see, you gave some effort and see what you got?" And I agree. with more than half the dates I've gone on this year, I was pushing myself to go. It wasn't like with WG where I was really looking forward to it - it really was like going grocery shopping or something, I pushed myself to do it. Some of those women I should not even have asked out. A few I'd gone out with in the past and found no spark, why would it be different this time? A few of them I almost wish I could take back the cruise invitation - they didn't deserve to go. One I feel like I almost begged her. Seriously? I'm going to beg someone??? She should have been so flipping lucky and doesn't know what she's missing and should be totally regretting not making it happen. But she too may have sensed I was not all that interested. WG could sense I was. But I can't fake it. I'm just too brutally honest.

Been struggling with some other things but this post is long enough already and I'm not sure I'm ready to try to spell it all out. Tried to flirt with a waitress at a new bar gig on Friday (she's a school teacher and this is her PT gig) but she left before that went anywhere and I also heard complaints she was a terrible waitress LOL. Maybe it's the holidays as well, I don't know. I did finally get a cabin # for the cruise but have not tried to log in or check things out any further yet. Even with the drama, I was so excited and had so much fun last year. I just don't see that happening this year. I will try, I really will, I just hope I don't go from one of the best vacations in the last 10 years to one of the worst.

Anyhow, back to the original topic, I have been told so often how woman hate these guys that come on so strong and want to get married or at least get serious after the 2nd or 3rd date and all of these women who don't' want that, just want someone to do things with. While I know some of them, they don't date ANYONE. Some of you here seem to think they don't exist. Others think they exist but only in the retirement age. Hmmmmm, well I did get an inquiry to see if I could help out a band the day after the cruise in the Villages down in Florida. This place is a notorious sex party in Florida for the 60 and up crowd. Maybe I'll do better there. LMAO
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/11/20 06:36 PM

Okay, because KML was nice enough to remember and to be interested enough to ask, I am following through on my promise to report on my cruise - even though it's all past and gone and pretty much out of my mind (although it was talked about quite a bit again this past weekend including with Wild Girl's parents and aunt - all because hundreds of interested parties and many dozens of cruisers were together at a weekend event.) So here you go:

The cruise was a month ago this week. All in all it was better than i was anticipating. I'm certain that is greatly because I had pretty low expectations. If anything I found out much more about some of the core group i was with - more than I wanted to know. In all, it was not nearly as much fun as last year - and not just because i was alone and not getting laid smile Without saying anything to the others, they said it themselves - just not as good. Why? Well, it's a long list. We had to work more and harder. There were three less bands this year but the same amount of performance time. The food was not nearly as good, nor the service. I'm not a drinker but the drinks were TERRIBLE. I thought for sure I was drinking a virgin margarita. The cruise for whatever reason skewed really old. The ship was a ghost town by midnight and the number of canes, walkers, wheelchairs, scooters, OMG. Cabins not as large - bathroom by far was smaller and the shower barely fit one person where last year two were tight but fit. Don't ask me how i know that. LMAO.

Moreso however, and I knew this was going to be the case, where we had a core group of 12 or 14 last year for shore excursions and around the pool during the afternoon or bar hopping at night, it was a lot of the time just 5 of us. I did my best to stay out of photos to not look like a loser 5th wheel. It was not too terrible being by myself other than when like the ships photographer or others came around for couples photos - yeah award and then my "friends" would use this to make a comment. Which happened enough, Though you guys clearly know how I dish it out so I can't blame them for taking an opportunity for them to dish it to me. That said, I lost count how many times others said they should have come by themselves like I did. That's yet another of the many posts I could make - perhaps I will. And then, though I guess it really doesn't matter and it's just male pride, the wife of the keyboard player, who also knows Wild Girl's parents evidently told them Don didn't have much fun because Wild Girl didn't go. Really? So this is what it looks like under the bus. She's one to talk as I may do a post on this dysfunction going on with the two couples I was with but there was no reason for her to say that - other than to be a Btch.

There was the girl from out-state NY who I had flirted with last year and I had in my sights. I'll just say mission completed but no we did not have sex - I mean in the literal meaning anyhow. I did have fun with her and I'm glad i pursued her but, like often happens, I feel like I'm trying to force it. I don't want to body shame, but she just is bigger than i'm used to. Yes she does carry it well, but well, I'll just leave it there. She's as sarcastic as me, quick witted and fun, but also seems like perhaps some self esteem issues as well there. She talked bad about herself often, things like "Need to get my fat ass out of this chair" and stuff like that - like why put yourself down, especially since she is very cute, outgoing and fun. Anyhow, we did hang out a bit on my deck and had fun for much of the week - enough that we've kept in touch and are planning to meet up the next time work brings her to Chicago or anywhere within a reasonable drive of my location. We ta;led about me visiting, especially to ride her horses, but I'm not sure I'd risk that until we do a day or two during a work trip together to make sure. It's not a love connection and barely a lust connection. But at least it added to the cruise experience.

On the very last night at like 11:00 PM or later I finally got to talk to someone I had briefly met at the airport. She was friends of another musician i know but not well. Anyhow, we totally hit it off. She's age appropriate (I'm pretty sure very close to my age) a nurse but now works in upper management, very friendly, smart, fun, confident, very good shape and pretty. The total type I'd ask out in a second. We both said too bad we did not talk sooner as we'd have had so much more to talk about. Her husband is somewhat more quiet - yes she's married... of course she's married - all the good ones are. They met nearly 40 years ago - near FORTY FLIPPING YEARS and have been married 32 and seem very happy. Of course who knows, but I didn't see the bickering, etc. with them that I did with other couples I was with. I wrote this the way I did not to hint that something inappropriate went on as it did not - just that the pool of what is left over pales in comparison to those who have stuck by their marriage and don't bail. In other words, once again, the women I would totally date are already taken. I think I'm back to hoping for a widow.

So in the end, it was okay going alone but not near as much fun as last year. Also, as I look back, I almost want to go back and retroactively retract the invitations I made to at least some of the women i asked. They didn't deserve to be asked by me and clearly didn't deserve the extra effort I put into trying to convince a few of them to go. To be honest, there was really no one that I asked that i was as sure about as I was Wild Girl nor that I wanted to go as much. Then again, there was no one that I had dated more than a dozen times and spent like half a dozen weekends with either so it would stand to reason this would be the case. However, this was a true gift to some of these women who sat home and did nothing a month ago. It's their loss, but they can't seem to get out of their own way and now I feel bad for "lowering myself" to their level. I know that may sound harsh and I'm not even saying like I'm all that and they missed some best of their life opportunity - I'm just saying, I wish I would have not tried as hard with some people who didn't deserve it. And I'm not talking about all of the 4 or 5 or 6 or whatever it was just some.

As an aside, it was also interesting, I ran into a couple others this weekend who were on my list of considerations but I never asked. One I had known years ago and had a bit of a hook up with like close to 15 years ago right after my D. Wow, has she changed including she's now a smoker. Very glad I did not roll the dice there. Ran into someone else, and she would have been perfect and I was kicking myself for not checking and told her so. She's got a new job and could not have gone anyhow, so no loss, but it looks like we are going to get together here sometime. She lives about two hours away, however.

It's about 95% certain we will not be back next year - which since they are on the same cruise line, this was Princess BTW, we are sort of happy we are not. I'd say it's at least 50/50 we'll be back again in 2022 or 2023 though so hopefully there will still be a chance for a repeat of 2019.

And that's it, unless I'm missing something and if so, I'll be happy to try to answer. As an aside, there are all sorts of other things going on in my life as well but I've just not been feeling it here lately, although some of my faith has been restored as of late. We'll see if I get back to posting here on this thread more. Then again, I can't even remember the last time I posted on my FB page either, not even a single cruise post, so maybe I'm just posted out in general and it's just me and not the environment or others. Time will tell.
Posted By: kml

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/11/20 07:56 PM

Maybe it will be a good thing not to have the cruise next year - I feel like it puts an artificial pressure on you and your dating life that is very unpleasant for you.

Now you can just date for what YOU want, which is an independent, fun companion for sometimes but not all the time if I'm not mistaken?

Yes, I know that's work too, but without the pressure of the cruise maybe you can relax and find someone who is a good hang.
Posted By: pinn

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/11/20 10:26 PM

I want to hear what else is going on with you.

I agree with KML, no cruise might be a blessing in disguise for you. It does seem to be a huge stressor for you. Iím glad this one wasnít that bad going alone. I remember how much the thought of going alone has weighed in you over the years.
Posted By: pinn

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/11/20 10:27 PM

Ugh...going on **with you

Can we just edit back already for at least a minute

Made the edit for you. I don't think the edit button has worked properly on this forum for a number of years. Don't have a clue as to why it doesn't work, but we have mentioned it a few times when they do the yearly upgrades. I don't know if it is a glitch in the system or something that needs to be tweaked. I'll mention it again.
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/12/20 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by pinn
Ugh...going on **with you. Can we just edit back already for at least a minute.

Putting on my IT hat for just a minute Iím near positive the edit button is not ďbrokenĒ it is simply a parameter that has been toggled off. It would be extremely easy for someone with high enough permission on their login to turn it back on and set the time parameter. Problem is Iím just as sure no one comes around here or is even on the payroll anymore who can do it. Guess we are lucky this place is even still here. But I do agree with you and would even volunteer to do it for them if that would help. This is a common, though out-dated, BB that Iíve administered for other clients over the years.

As for the cruise, the first year was a much bigger deal to me. This year not near as much and then I also didnít put in very much effort. I kept my eyes open but there were never any real front runners. I waited until the first ďdeadlineĒ I was given to finally start asking. When that didnt work out I sort of stopped. I then thought at least the flight deadline had passed even though I later found out it had not. Then I thought whomever went could not fly with me - that also turned out not to be true. I then made a second round of attempts Several months later and like 2 month prior to sailing and got a bit stupid about it, which I now regret though no harm was done at all. In the end our flights never got booked until mid November and cabins were not assigned until mid December. So much for the nonsense of September 1 being the ďdeadline.Ē

Anyhow my point is, I didnít try very hard outside of two, couple week pushes a couple months apart. Now, if anything the amount of trying will even be less. Having the need to find someone to go actually encouraged my to look and try harder to date. Now with no need Iíll likely try even less. I might be better off if there was another cruise, though certainly it will be less stress this way without one. Iím not a Home Depot guy but as Doodler decided heíd rather fix his house up than go on a date, Iíd rather do whatever too, than go on a date. Iím just so sick of not being attracted to most or them being too nuts to pursue.

Although that said there are at least 3 casuals on my radar. One lives 2 hours away, another about 10 and one is actually in Canada. Need something closer - just not too close. Lol. Itís just so disappointing that someone Iíd totally put effort in for, like the lady thatís married (if she was not of course) versus those that I have to almost push myself to be interested. I really do have a pretty great life. If I was miserable or at least wanting someone enough Iíd do something about it. Evidently Iím not so I donít. In fact I told that to someone Sunday night.
Posted By: pinn

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/13/20 01:48 PM

Bumping dons thread so bfly can have hers back
Posted By: bttrfly

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/13/20 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by pinn
Bumping dons thread so bfly can have hers back

smoochies and hugs pinn xoxoxo
Posted By: DonH

Re: Still wondering what comes next - 02/13/20 09:15 PM

LMAO but, just like the Dk pics, I didnít start it! smile
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