Time for a new thread. While whatever this is with Wild Girl will very likely continue, there is more to the last 3 or 4 months than just her. Hopefully I'll figure out what it is I really want and how to get there - therefore the title of this latest thread.
Here is my latest threadHere is my last thread
Thanks again to everyone who has participated. Hopefully that will continue!
DH,
Let's just agree to disagree but I just want to respond to one of your points. It's the nature of the business to try to sell your book. MWD does the same thing. You can read his entire book for free on his website on this website you get the first chapter.
Good like with WG and btw your Brewers are going down tonight!
Hello don
Just to clarify. When i said "WG wasnt into you" i did not mean sexually, or as someone to have fun with. I meant, she is not looking at you as a long term, settle down with type of guy.
I really believe that when women find that guy they want to settle down with, they become the clingy, demanding woman that scares you. I know i am stereotyping. And i also know that age and experience and other factors can alter this. But for the most part (of course there are exceptions) i see this dynamic a lot. And then there are the woman that say they are not like that but maybe hide it better in the beginning. They are smarter. They know how to play the game.
(Which ends up being dishonest and leads to other issues) or they just dont know or are not being honest with themselves about what they want.
Now WGs actions are fine for you, as you are not looking for someone to settle down with. There were some sentences in your post that made me think maybe you were looking for more with her. But you indicate that was not so. Just passing thoughts at times.
Now post divorce, there are plenty of guys like you that want to keep things more casual. They want to just have someone to have wild sex with, go on vacations with, and take out when they dont want to feel like a 3rd wheel. Ginger referred to it as cake eating. I dont see it like that, as long as your honest. And I would understand why guys out there would want that. I do know that it can be harder to find quality women that are up for that though.
But women like me and perhaps ginger would want to identify and avoid those types of guys. I am honest in that i am looking for a 2nd chance at a partnership/family. Im 40 and feel like i missed out on that with my ex. In the region ginger and i am from, there are practical reasons to arrangements like that as well. Now at our stage in life in can be harder to find quality men that are up for that as well.
Maybe in the future, i would not want to deal with inevitable negatives of someone. To only be with somone when all is good. To not have to deal with the disagreements, and bad moods, and peeing on the toilet seat. Not having to deal with the grit. On the other hand, it is the sweetest there is something conforting when i see older coupkes support each other through injuries and surgeries and illness (i work as a physical therapist) But i think that grit just puts you on a different level of relating and bonding that some are just not capable of or ready for.
So no wrong ways. As long as everyone is honest.
Regarding asking you about guilt, i was referring more to behaviors that came out with addiction. You mentioned instead of visiting your wife at hospital you stayed home cause of addiction.
My ex was so selfish and cold when i was pregnant and had to go for surgery cause of a cancer growth and then during my subsequent miscarriage. I went to work with a dead fetus in me for weeks and i just never felt like he cared. Im not sure if it was an addiction that made him that way, or if it was just because he was an avoidant or no longer loved me. So i guess im seeking answers from you as a former opiate addict cause i just dont understand addiction. I spent hours on the blue light forum trying to gain insight. Discovered simmilarities (ex was constantly buying immodium, not waking up through alarms, disappearing during snow storms, never having money even though he earned a lot, sexual issues i originally though was unique to ex and stress) but very little talk about how they felt about their relationshiips or failed relationships.
I think maybe i relate to you as a future version of my ex. Like if he is currently clean or becomes clean. (I dont know any more) I cant see him ever wanting a real relationship with someone either.
Good like with WG and btw your Brewers are going down tonight!
I really think things will settle in with WG and me - one way or another. It's seems to be less on my mind everyday. As for the Brewers - don't be so sure about that. We are back at home, Hader is WELL rested and ready to go 3 innings or more. The bats have been quiet and started heating up again last night. It's not going to be an easy win, if the Dodger win at all. I've got a good feeling going into this.
Just to clarify. When i said "WG wasn't into you" i did not mean sexually, or as someone to have fun with. I meant, she is not looking at you as a long term, settle down with type of guy.
I'm very glad you clarified as I am now much more agreeing with you. I think her attraction has lowered - I mean I guess that's obvious. I don't know that she's looking to settle down with anyone. I think she wanted to try or perhaps her friends were encouraging her to try with me. We are just not each others typical in so many ways - not just age. I think her friends and for certain her parents WISH she would find a guy like me to settle down with. Her mom was and may still be over the moon that we are dating. I'm just not her typical type nor she mine, but for whatever reason, that didn't matter as every time we are or at least were together we had an amazing time. Then in between we'd communicate so much. My phone stats were over 1,000 minutes in both July and August and was less than 200 in September!
I really believe that when women find that guy they want to settle down with, they become the clingy, demanding woman that scares you.
I can sort of see that and have experienced it. They lose their normal mojo and start getting sucked in - sort of like I was starting to with WG. And again, I'm glad you clarified or expanded on it all as what you are saying about you and Ginger is EXACTLY what I was getting at. I just don't feel the need nor am I at a point in my life to need those things. I'll end this post with another thought on that.
Regarding asking you about guilt, i was referring more to behaviors that came out with addiction. You mentioned instead of visiting your wife at hospital you stayed home cause of addiction.
While i don't think I feel "guilty" about it, I do feel bad for it. I feel bad that I did it as it would not have been me prior nor after active addiction. That's why I'm trying to impress on you that love avoidant - if I even am one - is separate and apart from addiction. All the things that your ex did to you seem to continue to bother you. Have you ever attended an ALANON group or support group for spouses or family of addicts? I think it would do you A WORLD of good. You would learn so much and you'd feel so much better. It's not too late to do. There is a reason they call addiction a FAMILY DISEASE. It truly is. It's not at all only the addict that suffers - it's everyone in their life. I can not encourage you enough to explore this as I know you'd quickly come away saying and feeling "OMG it was not me, it was him all along" and you would understand so much more.
_________________________________________________________________
As for me going forward... I really think it sort of comes down to this: Using a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is depression so bad you are ready to consider suicide and 10 is the happiest that you could ever imagine. I am a very even tempered guy. I rarely get sad or depressed nor do I get over the top happy. When I was married, I was often at an 8. I didn't dip too low as from my point of view the marriage was great as I was getting everything I wanted. That was not the case for my wife. I lived at a 4 or 5 after bomb drop for several years going as low as a 3 for several months where I actually tried AD medication for a while.
However, for the past years I've been back to a solid 7. I rarely am any lower than a 5 and even that is short lived. Then I was back to somewhat living a life interacting with someone else as we communicated nearly everyday for three months. That in some ways put me back to that 8 and even flirting with a 9 now and then. Wild Girl said the some of the same, telling me how she was coming out of her dark place from six months ago when she found out her ex was having a baby with someone else. So we were both happier. But coming with it, I had 4s and 5s again, including anxiety and such.
So which do I want? Am I satisfied with being pretty happy near all the time or do i want to be REALLY REALLY happy part of the time but that then comes with struggles, sadness, anxiety and stuff - not to mention the risk of another bomb drop and depression somewhere down the road should I really fall for the person and the same thing happens?
I really don't know. I can't deny how much I enjoyed June, July and August. My closest friends could see the different in me as well. But the price was "paid" kinda sorta when it slowed down. The thing is, just like i don't regret getting M and really enjoyed those years, I don't regret the fling (or whatever you want to call it) with WG and it's got me exploring a couple other women as well. I just don't know but that's how I see my dilemma. I think I'm leaning towards the 8s with the 4s and 5s thrown in, but that's easier to say when I've not had it for 12 years and only a glimpse of it three or four times since. I'm nearly just as sure after 6 or 12 months of that I could just as easily say i want to be single again. We often want what we don't have - right?
Therefore, the "perfect solution" for me is someone who wants the same but still wants their independence, doesn't need to see me three or four times a week, doesn't want to change me (yet another thing I loved about WG - she never tried to change me and said so many times). There is not perfect answer. And since I so rarely find someone I'm very interested in - who is also just as interested in me - I've been having the decision made for me. That's where I'm trying to go explore in this thread.
Well, here's the updates...
I kinda of felt like I had a trifecta going here, game 7 of the playoffs with the Brewers - which I really thought we might win, Tuesday date with online girl and ongoing with Wild Girl. Well, the ante got upped a bit with Wild Girl as what comes in the mail but the final cruise documents and requests for a few more items, like our passport numbers. So I knew if she was going to bail, this was likely going to be the start or at least the hedge.
1. So as many know the Brewers lost so you see I was wrong about that. One Down.
2. I messaged Online Girl this AM. I just stayed very positive saying " I just wanted to check in and firm up something for tomorrow. I kept the afternoon open so let me know what works for you. If you have a favorite place or someplace that you are comfortable with in your area for either lunch or a drink, let me know. If not, I was thinking maybe the [brew pub place] around 1ish? Whichever works best is fine with me. I'm really looking forward to chatting more with you along with I'm sure some good laughs. That was about 5 hours ago now and I've not heard back yet.
3. Called Wild Girl and got voice mail - which has always been more typical than her answering. I then left to get some shopping done and nearly pushed the cart into the shelves when my phone rings and it's her. Told her I'd call her back but needed some additional cruise info - with typical "sounds good" reaction. I called her back after I got home and we had what by all accounts is the same type of discussion we could have had three months ago. Not a single sign of her pulling out - although she's still getting her passport renewed. She gave me the info I needed and we caught up for well over an hour - maybe more like an hour and a half.
So I can relax - she's not bailing on the cruise. That really was my largest concern. I didn't ask her out for anything else but did let her know I'm looking to get tickets for something and will be letting her know. She has a heck of a cold. She's also clearly still struggling with something or somethings. She finally met up with her BFF and she told her the same thing - I've not seen you or talked with you in forever. Ran into her ex love - who I guess pursued her a bit. She's still very clearly hung up on that guy - married with a new baby as he is. He's very clearly just trying to get her back on the side with the same old "we are getting D'd, we never have sex, I don't love her, blah, blah, blah" It worked once for him - right up until his W got pregnant. Whatever, it's her issue - not mine. I stayed clear of last weekend and her potential date - as I'd really rather not know but many of her other stories seem to indicate she's not dated anyone. It's all been the same - family, baby sitting her nephews last weekend, being with her girls, with her friends and working.
So, at least my mind is at ease about not having to rock the boat (pun intended) with the cruise people. She's not even hinting at bailing and at this point I can't imagine she would. I'm sure we'll get together before that but, I don't know, it's clearly not the same - even though it was much the same in that we talked and talked and laughed just like we had always done. But the excitement level for me is just not there - and it almost seems like the excitement level for life with her is not there. She didn't sound depressed or anything, just like she's still struggling with something. That said, I have every belief things will be totally normal when we go - which is somewhat important as spending 10 days with any one person can be trying. I also am pretty sure we'll get together at least a few times prior - just nothing set right now. I didn't want to overwhelm her - especially since she's been more "normal" the last week or two - both on text and on the phone. I'd rather let her come back to me - though friends or FWB really is likely where this ends.
Still need to hear about tomorrow. I really hope OnLine girl doesn't postpone or ghost and cancel altogether. That said, while I'll be disappointed, it won't be any huge deal even though two out of three will have not happened as I hoped they would. At least it's not three for three! Staying hopeful for 2 our of 3. I'll report back when I know!
That all sounds like good news.
Would you take a look at my thread and give me your guy's opinion?
Well hmmmmmm looks like it might be 2 out of 3 after all. I had pretty much resigned myself to online girl getting cold feet as I had heard nothing from my date request yesterday morning and since I had proposed to meet in a little less than 2 hours - I figured at best she'd postpone again or just not respond at all then at 11:15 I get inky "that works" or "sounds good" or dine thing like that. Not sure why she waited so long and then so criptic of S response but I'll go meet her. It's about 35 minutes from my house so this better not be my first stand up. I don't think it is but still, from many, many paragraphs to two words... I'll let you know how it goes when I get back. Cautiously optimistic.
Go get em DH!!! As The Coach would say.......hang out, have fun, and hook up!! Keep it light, have her do 80% of the talking, and ask her probing questions.......put on a little smell good, just like old times.
Well I'm clearly 2 for 3... if only the Brewers were in the World Series
Met Online girl for what was either going to be lunch or a drink. Not being much of a drinker - especially a day drinker - I would have been fine with lunch but she had eaten so the bar it was. She looked totally like her pictures although perhaps a bit heavier - though she did not hide that fact. Came extremely casual and still looked good but again I much prefer natural beauty over huge make up, nails done, hair perfect. Just not into the high maintenance look. I also thought, wow, she either has confidence or is not all hung up on impressing me (or both) which also impressed me.
Personality wise, she is very much my type but that's in good ways and bad. I'll give some details (as if I'd keep it short) but I'll let you know the conversation was non stop, she touched me quite a bit, we laughed a lot and she was in no hurry to leave - in fact we were together for a little over three hours. I was greeted with a very nice hug and that's how we departed - no kiss but pretty good reason why that I'll explain.
So some detail. She's lived quite the life. I give her total points for honesty. In fact dishonesty is one of my very few deal breakers. She was actually too honest for a first date but she had hinted on a few things on our somewhat lengthy emails but then said she'd explain first "if" we meet and then as the emails continued on, "when" we meet and she made good on it. She is still married - RELAX!!!! I do believe her and do understand as I've seen this before. They have not been intimate in 12 years and have not lived under the same roof in 9. She's had several multi-year Rs since. Why not get D'd? Sounds mostly like insurance and financial - and I'm guessing for him, no offical child support, alimony, etc. She was very open about this and even said should anything develop between us, she would want me to meet him so I can see for myself there is nothing going on here. Some might see this as a problem but for someone like me not at all wanting to get married gain, I see it as an insurance policy. LOL So it's really no issue for me - clearly not at this point.
On another positive, she seems rather casual about dating. She also seemed somewhat into me and again said how good looking I am. I really am not that good looking - at least I don't think so. I always describe myself as reasonably good looking - but she begs to differ and I'll let her.
She touched me somewhat often but very naturally, not like overly sexually, just like she was very comfortable.
So some downside, her three kids have a couple of different fathers even though she's only been married once. She either seems to be too trusting, doesn't chose guys well, attracts drama or (let's hope not) likes it???? I hope it's the earlier ones. I'm surprised she told me about this but it did fit her story of how she came back to this area. She moved back here from Seattle several years ago - in great part because a guy got her to come back. He promised her all sorts of things, including really wanting to have an R with her and she believed him. He's not only no longer in the picture but someone she can't bare to see again. Perhaps it was because she started tearing up and I could obviously see it that she gave me the rest of the story. I grabbed her hand and told her I'm sorry for whatever happened and we don't' need to talk about this on a first date. She said it was okay and pulled up a news story on her phone about a federal agent who is awaiting trial on multiple rape charges. The headlines called him a possible serial rapist with currently three women claiming he raped them. Yep, she is one of the three and he is the guy who got her to come back. He's pleading innocent and claims it was all consensual sex. He's out on $10K cash with an ankle bracelet. Would she have said anything had she not teared up? Who knows? - but here's the first hint at why I didn't try to kiss her.
We had great discussion about all sorts of things. She's very open and honest which I very much connect with. Other than she's somewhat thicker than my typical, she's very much my type looks wise - and was a total hottie until menopause started and she shot up by over 50 pounds. Again, she just blurted it out and is halfway back to her typical weight. Even though she was very honest about a few of her things, and even though it would not be the first time I've disclosed my addiction on a first date, I did not. I will before too long as I'm honest, it's a part of me and it's 9 years in the rear view mirror - plus my Google history can be somewhat easily found.
After about three hours we both said we should probably move along. We had already talked about going to see a musician she enjoys seeing, who recorded in my studio many, many years ago, so I told her I'd find out where he was playing and we should go - which she thought was a great idea. I told her I'm busy all weekend (which I am) but open the following weekend so let's plan on it. I gave him my number (again) and told her to text me so we can connect without me having to go back OLD. I was not even home yet when I got the text. We texted a bit then I said I was going on a walk. I shot her one more text answering a couple questions she had but not until three or four hours later into the evening. She responded right away but said goodnight so that was that. We've not connected since.
Of course, now I've been hearing more and more from Wild Girl. There is absolutely no way she could know I met someone for an afternoon date but isn't this always the way? It is sooooooo ironic, and I told Online Girl this, how I tried for years OLD and never had a second date from it. I gave up several years ago and really only was back to see why I was getting emails and how I could get them to stop and NOW is when I meet someone. Like with Wild Girl, there are red flags - the rape obviously being among them. She says she's first looking for a friend and someone to do things with but I also sense she falls quickly for guys. She seems interested in me - otherwise why stay so long, why text right away, etc. But she also said how she doesn't like it when guys want things so fast, want to get physical too fast, etc. She seems a bit flighty - she actually "forgot" to meet someone for a coffee date on Monday. Her kids were off school and she totally forgot until going to meet me - which she claims she wrote herself a note and blew off friends to meet me - saying that doesn't happen a lot. She said she appologized to the guy but has not heard back. She also had some pretty funny other OLD stories.
Clearly there is something about me that she finds attractive. She could/would clearly be a cruise backup but it's obvious Wild Girl is planning on going and getting more excited about it. Should that change, this OLD girl would be a perfect fill-in. Of course I also wonder, how far do I want to take things, knowing I'm still dating and likely still sleeping with Wild Girl. I don't want to put myself in a bad position. I'll be honest with both of them, but especially at this age, some women get very odd about that. Earlier on Wild Girl said several times I could date other women. When I questioned or pushed her on that - first asking if this was a test and then saying "You really would be fine with me dating someone else?" She said, "You can date whomever you want... I may not ever go out with you again but you can date whomever you want..." I took it as a test. That was in the first weeks and we've not really talked about it since. I am assuming she's hung out with other guys but that is total assumption. I really don't know.
So I'm just taking it day by day. Oh the kiss, I wasn't sure if she wanted it or not. I figured I pretty much knew we were going out again so why risk it. I pretty much already had a real date setup so using sales principles, once you have the sale, don't do anything to ruin it - an unwanted kiss after a meet and greet, especially by someone who has gone through what she has - could have made her think I was just looking for physical. So if or when we go on the real date, that will happen. Like I said, she greeted me with a great hug and grabbed my hand and held it for like 20 seconds within the first five minutes so I'm pretty sure the physical attraction is there.
I'll stop here as I'm sure there will be more and I can talk more about where I sit. It's interesting though how the dynamic is already different - I feel a better fit with Online Girl than with WG but obviously the sexual attraction is not the same level and I'm still very much figuring this new girl out - including watching these red flags. If she's as casual as she claims, it might be another great fit for what I'm looking for. We'll see.
Had enough items to update a week ago but then have been working full-time like a regular person - WTH! - so really didn't have the time to post. I submitted the project late on Friday so I can first catch up on things - including fixing my hot tub - and then be lazy again for awhile. Plenty to update though.
Sent a picture to Wild Girl a week ago Saturday night as I was downtown. Pic was a place her and I have talked about going. I didn't hear back until Sunday morning and then was told she was at a bond fire and riding 4 wheelers Saturday night - totally her "box". Well then a tell-tale photo went up on social media Monday and if I had to guess she was back again at the farm she was at two weeks ago. Younger farm boys again are totally her "type" All just guesses but two weeks apart for sleep overs was our MO. At least she's not lying to me about it and we never said we were not dating anyone else - with her saying I can and should, so.. Still, of course it bothered me that it appears at least for now I've been replaced and that didn't put me in a good place to be creative but amazingly I still was - and proud of myself for it too. I've not talked with her all week but again more a function of being too busy - yet nothing from her either so... I just clearly need to get in the right mindset about it all.
Went out with the girl from online again Saturday. She is very much a last minute, change plans, just roll with it type of girl - which at least in the beginning can be fun. We met just before 5 for a walk and then were going to grab some dinner and hear a band - or a single musician with backing tracks I won't even get started on what that has done to actual bands. She at first said she was going to watch a movie with D14 so could not stay out late - even wanted at first to meet at 4. In the end, we looked and it was already 10:15. I would have thought it was no later than 7:30. So obviously we must have been having a fun time.
It's hard to gauge. I fit better with her than I do Wild Girl. She's the exact opposite with drinking - had a single beer and then went to water. WG would have downed at least 6 in the time we were there - maybe more. At one point, after she talked about taking her boat out of the water to storage, I said, "I really wish we would have met three months ago." She looked at me confused and said why. I told her because I would have loved to go boating with her. Her immediate matter of fact response was "well it's only about 7 or 8 months until the boat will be back in the water." I thought that was interesting.
She again touched me somewhat often, even holding my hand for 10 or 15 seconds while or after making a point. Yet, we only had a short kiss - she even caught me by surprise - as if almost she knew there sorta had to be a kiss this time and she was going to control it. Now is this a function of her past? Who knows? It's interesting to see the differences with her and Wild Girl. She waits for me to open the door for her where Wild Girl would bust right through it ahead of me. WG would just about rip the check out of my hand - or at least try to where OLG asked "Should i chip in" again more like just a gesture. In both cases I would not have allowed them to pay - although lost that battle with WG on our first "real" date. On the other end, WG and I were making out where OLG is much more cautious. But to be honest, I'm more towards OLG's speed - or perhaps somewhere in the middle of the two. When leaving I did say that I hoped we could do this again. Her response was "I like you" or "I really like you" one of the two. So clearly she's interested. I'm just not sure in what. It also seems as those physically I'm her type.
Things with OLG seems so much easier and natural. I don't worry will I hear from her, I don't have the angst that I did with WG about hearing from her or responses, etc. But I also don't have the level of attraction either. Of course that could totally grow. I found out more and even have references to the guy she was involved with. OMG - this is BIG. and I mean like national level big. The case here involves three women but there are more - one of which has a movie on the story completed. Once I can verify all of this and I see where things go I may share the title here as it's easily found online.
I plan on calling WG tonight to touch base. I just don't want things to get too loose with the cruise looming. It's getting clearer and clearer we are reverting to what she has done with many other guys - see them now and then, do things, stay in touch but not let them get too close. That appears to be the case now with me. I'm in her stable - which again, I'm getting near EXACTLY what I thought and even told people i wanted. I remember saying how I worried about getting through 4 or 5 months of "dating" or having to see the person more than I wanted to just to get to the cruise. This was before I even met or re-met WG. So now it's playing out exactly how I said I wanted it - yet now I'm not wanting it so much. I'm sure we'll see each other and I still think things will be fine. The only concern now would be if she really would fall for this guy - if there even is a guy. Of course OLG could become her replacement - but with starting a new job, it's very unlikely she can get off of 6 days of work two months after starting.
OLG starts her new job two weeks from today. That I'm sure will dampen her ability to see me - working third shift and all. Can't predict where that one might go. Will see. Perhaps all of this is just preparing me to meet the college deen friend of a friend? Who knows? All of it is just a work in progress. At least I feel rather good about it all. I'm fine with WG. I'm comfortable with OLG and enjoying casually dating her - although at least some kisses would be nice. The rest will show itself in time I guess.
You just never know...
What women (or men for that matter) are thinking and will do. It certainly would be nice to know but if I've not figured it out in my first 55 years, I hold little hope that I ever will. Really not trying to brag in this post - although I guess perhaps a little part of me... it is a nice ego boost now and then but more it really makes me think and reminds me that you just never know. What in the hell am I talking about? Read on.
So I was really busy last week - not nearly as much this week. Heard from Wild Girl via text on Tuesday evening asking if I'll be around so we can talk. She reached out to me - not simply responded. "I'll give you a call after I get done with dinner." she said. I won't lie, part of me immediately thought, yep, here it comes... she's going to back out on me. Well the evening progressed and I heard nothing until much later when she apologized and said she just got totally busy with the girls. It really didn't phase me either way and I know it is likely the case - having experienced the household. I just told her no worries and she thanked me for understanding.
I had also not heard much from Online Girl since we went out last Saturday. A little texting here and there but that's about it. Sort of staying with DB, I figured I'd just wait a while and see if she would reach out to me - or if Wild Girl would as she promised. In the meantime I had not talked with a FWB of mine for a long time. We are more friends than anything but have explored benefits here and there. I was shocked to see the last time we hung out was January! So I texted her in the early evening. I then also have kept in close contact with someone from Canada that I totally made out with two years ago. She keeps trying to get me to meet up with her and her friends when she is within driving range and I'd really like to as I'm very comfortable with her, even if there is not huge physical or sexual attraction. She and I get along great. My schedule just has not allowed it. I saw her in person last time in February but we talk very regularly.
So Canada and I had Facetimed earlier in the day. I heard back from FWB and we started planning when we could get together. I then heard from Online Girl with her telling me about her last several days, her kids, her business things and her new job. Then, in pops Wild Girl - suggesting maybe we can talk on Friday as she will be alone finally. So here I am juggling three chats - Wild Girl, Online Girl, and a FWB. Me - this mild mannered 55 year old guy. LOL Yeah, here's the bragging part but the ironic part is I didn't plan or in any way orchestrate any of it! It just sort of happened. I told Canada what was taking place (we are very honest with each other) so she proceeded to find juggling mimes and sent them to me. BTW, Wild Girl must have needed a temp check or wanted to make sure her cruise ticket is still in hand as she told me she's starting to get excited and should be receiving her passport any day now (just in case you were worried - she said). So she clearly has no plans to bail - and it would appear wants to make sure I don't dump her.
Just gets me thinking how this is all a lot of work and you just never know. What are all of these women thinking? What do they REALLY want? It also in some ways leaves me wanting more from/with someone. It's nice to have women that don't pressure me and if anything do the opposite and keep things very casual while still reaching out to me. But it would also be nice to know that I had someone who really wanted to see me and spend time with me. Don't get me wrong, I think they all do - in their own way - but if that doesn't happen, it would appear that's okay with them too. They are also very busy - especially online girl. FWB last I saw her was trying to get back together with an old old BF that she loved many years ago after his somewhat recent D. I don't think that happened but I'll see her next week. She, BTW, was my main backup for the cruise.
I will also see the friend of the college dean next week. As if I don't have enough women to juggle... but they are all casual dates. I'm really starting to wonder if I'm not starting to want more? Yeah, me... Imagine that.
You just never know...
Well, what a journey you're on! I'm loving this
I'm really starting to wonder if I'm not starting to want more? Yeah, me... Imagine that.
Ding ding ding!!!
Struggling a bit to accurately describe the past week and now into this week. I'm clearly not depressed, not even really dealing with any one thing that is bothering me - I guess it's just all getting old again. I'm getting back to feeling like a thread title I had a few back - "this used to be a lot easier and a lot more fun." I so want June, July and August back!
I'm trying to do more GAL although perhaps instead of just doing lighthearted, fun things, I've had more deeper discussions with some friends. Meeting another tonight who I've not seen in 10 months and I know we'll both be catching the other up on everything that has gone on since we last hung out.
Yesterday I was with a long time friend. She's the one that was going to introduce me to/set me up with - whatever you want to call it - the college assistant dean. This friend the type the sees the good in everyone and gives people the BOTD. Even she said it seemed like I was becoming a magnet for the dysfunctional. Or am I choosing them? That was my question.
She also had me realize I have more "deal-breakers" than I thought I did. They are just obvious to me - so I never really thought of them as "deal-breakers" but clearly they are. Such as wanting to have a child. That truly is a deal breaker for me. Wanting to move out of this area - yet another. I had prided myself on being open minded enough to only have 2.5 but we identified over a half dozen already. That's still not bad but I'm sure there are more so clearly I'm even more picky than I thought I was.
Updating on the "juggling" I did for a night last week, that has completely turned around. No change on Wild Girl - although my friend had heard from her through social media a week or two ago with WG talking about the cruise. LOL Okay then. Online Girl after telling me she thinks I'm very handsome (I don't agree with the very part for sure) and "I really like you" has not responded since Sunday. She starts a new job this Monday but has to do 3rd shift for 3 to 6 months. As we were texting Sunday night just shortly before she was heading to bed I told her "I'd love to get together again if you have the time since I'm guessing your first weeks will take some adjusting for you. I've got a pretty light week." Her response... "K! Thanks!" Huh? Okay, thanks? I responded "????? Not sure what that means LOL" No response since. Okay, thanks, I guess.
I therefore thought the timing was good to inquire more about the college dean. The history here is my friend casually mentioned "someone" to me but said they were newly D'd and not ready to date. I can't remember how long ago that was. I thought it was end of summer - friend thinks it was much longer than that. I then happened to see some pics and did some stalking to find out more. I was/am very interested. This is a quality woman, PhD, 3 kids all in college, very amicable D where they just grew apart is the report. Purchased a lake home 10 minutes from me. Very girl next door attractive. So, I thought, good fit. "She'd be perfect for you" says my friend - although she's said that before. Followed by, but she started dating someone a month or two ago. I know I should not, but I felt so deflated. So clearly it was not too soon to start dating post D - she just didn't want to date me. No I don't know that for sure but I strongly feel it.
The good ones, far and few between as they are, are not available for long. Which leaves the Wild Girls and Online girls and at least another dozen I could tell you about of the world that I've met in the last years. I'm sorry but I just can't see it much differently. We have talked about everyone having baggage, etc. but it's just sooooooo elusive to find someone that I want to date who is normal and grounded and also wants to date me. My friend brought up for the second or third time someone else in this group of friends that would be thrilled to go out with me. I'm sure she's nice but we've all seen the girl who all of her friends are attractive, dress well, get hit on and then there is the friend of the group who never does - that's this girl. PhD Dean may be just as out of my league as this girl is of mine. Blunt, bold, arrogant, mean, whatever, that's just the bottom line as I see it.
I'm hoping my GAL tonight makes me feel better. I'm clearly not in a FWB mood and I sense her life has not gone super well lately either. I hope I'm wrong but she has not seemed herself in our last conversations the past months. Hopefully I'll have happier things to write about. Also need to try to make more plans for this weekend. Although I've only got Saturday open so I guess Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday is still pretty good GAL. Why isn't it helping?
As we were texting Sunday night just shortly before she was heading to bed I told her "I'd love to get together again if you have the time since I'm guessing your first weeks will take some adjusting for you. I've got a pretty light week." Her response... "K! Thanks!" Huh? Okay, thanks? I responded "????? Not sure what that means LOL" No response since. Okay, thanks, I guess.
DH,
I am going to give this a shot based on the advice I learned from the coaches book so I am not sure you will not like it.
Your text for the date should have been "It was great talking to you, when are you free to get together next week?" Direct, to the point and confident !
Yours was more like "golly gee I know your really busy but could you squeeze some time in to see me" Indirect, not to the point, and weak. That is why you got the weird response.
My way she has to give you a direct response. If she says" I am not sure". You say great "text me when you know your schedule". If she doesn't text you you walk and never look back.
Again, Don IMO you are texting too much with these girls and there is probably no mystery and they know everything about you so they are not enthusiastic to see you.
My two cents.
So, I agree with LH that you could have gotten a direct answer if worded differently. But I think you were expecting her to say yes, and this was a surprise.
I am afraid her answer does indicate she is not interested for whatever reason. it's the nice vague blow off.
And I don't think that girl who is nice normal and grounded who wants to date you is so elusive. You just have so many deal breakers and check boxes, they just never get through the door or make the cut on your end. And the ones that you let through the door aren't exactly "nice and normal" to begin with.
I think it would benefit to change things up. Like be more open-minded in your deal breakers. Stop being so darned scared of a woman who expresses interest in a relationship before you are ready to even talk about it. It seems as if someone just wants a relationship in general, you want to run for the hills, yet everything you describe is you wanting a relationship. You view women who want anything slightly more than very casual as clingy and then you aren't interested.
There could very well be a nice lady out there with grown kids who has a good job, a nice life and is looking for a partner as her end goal and dates with that intention that you are ruling out. That would be a shame to lose a nice lady like that.
Expand your horizons!
Yours was more like "golly gee I know your really busy but could you squeeze some time in to see me" Indirect, not to the point, and weak. That is why you got the weird response.
So, I agree with LH that you could have gotten a direct answer if worded differently. But I think you were expecting her to say yes, and this was a surprise. I am afraid her answer does indicate she is not interested for whatever reason. it's the nice vague blow off.
I don't and didn't totally disagree with what both of you said. Ginger was a bit more on target with my not expecting that answer as since it's been over 6 weeks already, I've gotten to know this woman's traits a little bit. She had already said she was busy with this last week prior to the new job, so that's in part why I worded it the way that I did. But you guys could have been correct. Although it also just shows that a lot of this for all of us is mind reading - and with two hands tied behind our back when all we get is what is said by the poster.
So in the end, what really did happen??? Was it the nice vague blow off? Well we went out again last night. LOL So, no slow fade, no blowing off (of any kind - sadly), it's just how she is. This too was somewhat last minute but on my part, but yes, we had another date.
But... I just don't know. It's again, like I see the signs pretty clear in front of me - she's clearly into the drama of life. Last week her 17 yr/o broke up with his GF - although the last time we were out two weeks ago she was telling me how this boy has lots of GF. so???? Now, her S25 broke up with his live-in GF - like 1,500 miles away from here and tried to commit suicide. Drama, drama, drama. I also went back and looked at her OLD profile - which interestingly says she's been online within the last month (rather than today, this week, last week, etc.) - so it would appear she's no longer active. Yet, it said "Hey friend" in the "headline" and included "Looking for a friend with similar interests & availability to spend time with exploring" and listed herself as "Wants to date but nothing serious." Of course, this, along with her derogatory comments about OLD in her profile is why I responded when she messaged in the first place.
This was our third real date and while I was not expecting sex, we've still yet to have a kiss as good as my first with Wild Girl. While some might go on what they think are "dates" and never kiss, it's a signal to me. I mean, otherwise, what's the difference between what I did Saturday night and what I did Wednesday afternoon and Thursday with my friends???? In the end, she's starting her third shift job tonight/Monday AM. I'm sure that will throw her for a loop in itself. If I had to guess (mind-read) she will quit before the end of the year. I could go on and on but in the end, I think I'm just going to let her be for awhile and see if she reaches back out to me. If something comes up that I need a date for, she might be a good person to contact. Beyond that, I think she's got to get it together more. And just like we've seen here, I think she's got to decide what she's looking for. Perhaps, again like we've read here, she tried OLD and now finds she's not ready??? Who knows and I don't think I'm caring enough to find out.
I think it would benefit to change things up. Like be more open-minded in your deal breakers. You just have so many deal breakers and check boxes, they just never get through the door or make the cut on your end. And the ones that you let through the door aren't exactly "nice and normal" to begin with. Expand your horizons!
I'd like to explore this as while I question it (and will in a second) I also don't discount it as I mentioned my talk with one of my friends this past week showed I had more deal breakers than I thought. But still, you kinda contradict yourself Ginger. I have too many deal breakers - yet not enough as I let those through those whom I should not. Well, it can't be both ways can it? If I'm overlooking things to let these women in, how do I have so many deal breakers? And to be honest, I've talked about a total of three on here. I've prided myself in NOT having many deal breakers. Yet, that list expanded when I talked with my friend. So Ginger, I'd love for you to tell me, what do YOU see as my deal breakers or check boxes? What am I missing here? Yes, I fall for and like what I fall for and like, but you seem to be seeing more deal breakers and check boxes than I am. Perhaps, clingy with low self esteem is another deal breaker although right or wrong, I don't think I'd shut that person out - even if I should. I just think they would turn me off in short order. So give me the list you see and let's see if I'm missing something?
And I don't think that girl who is nice normal and grounded who wants to date you is so elusive. There could very well be a nice lady out there with grown kids who has a good job, a nice life and is looking for a partner as her end goal and dates with that intention that you are ruling out. That would be a shame to lose a nice lady like that.
I so wish I could agree with you but after being D and for the most part single for 12 years now, I just can't. Yes, I have high standards, yes I'm even now STILL not willing to settle. Yes, I've been more love avoidant than I could or should be, but I'm telling you, more and more it seems clear that the good ones are taken for a reason - because they are the good ones. They are grounded, they don't bail, they know what they want, etc. Even when they become available again, it's not for long - case in point the college dean. Then you see these OLDers over and over and over again for years - still out there looking. There are those never married. Those never in an R for more than 2 or 3 years. Look at people in your life, those you work with, those you encounter at work. There is a lot of broken people out there. Some can't hold a conversation to save their lives. I could go on and on. I think I'm a great catch and am not going to lower my standards - I'm just not. What really upsets me the most is it's almost like on balance I was doing better emotionally before. I had sort of resigned myself to what it's going to be. I was pretty happy. Then this cruise thing came up and I started upping my dating game with about a half dozen women. Among them I re-met Wild Girl and even with all of her red flags it was soooooooo great to have someone to do things with, talk with, share the day's events, and of course the physical parts - and so now that I had it for 3 or 4 months I really want it - yet as I try to go back out there looking, the good ones are taken or not interested and all I'm left with is the ones that just don't attract me - and not just physically - actually morose mentally, emotionally and personally. I've been more bummed these past couple of weeks than in a long time.
Some people are very good at accepting a large variety of people. You very much fit that Ginger as you yourself say you don't even have a type. While in hindsight you say you see now some of the guys in the past year or two were not a right fit, you totally were willing to be a right fit with them if they were willing - it was them who killed the deal - not you. I hope that is coming out correctly as I'm not putting you down in anyway. You just are able to accept all kinds of looks, personalities and what they want. That's actually a very positive attribute. I just can't and never have. That's why I have my 10 percenters. I like what I like and I don't know how to change that - and really don't think I should. The bad part about that is when only 10% attract me if even half of them are not interested, I'm down to 5%. But it's unrealistic to think that half of any group wants to date you. Even 10% wanting to date you would be a win - yet with me that really puts me into the percent or lower category.
Of course I wrote too much again and could write even more. Sadly there are so few people even left here that none of us really get a wide range of input and writing so much doesn't help promote responses. I greatly thank both of you for taking the time!
There was a study of online dating recently which showed people generally contact people who are 25% more attractive than they are. This may account for some of the poor results men have, if they're routinely trying to date "out of their league".
On the other hand, 50 year old men and 18 year old girls are the most popular!
White men and Asian women being the most popular.
What I'm getting at - if you have a "type" you may be unnecessarily limiting yourself. And I can speak from experience that someone who only seems ok in attractiveness can gain a lot in attractiveness as you get to know them.
As for the selection of singles at our age - sure, some people are single for a reason. Early in my post-divorce dating that was because I was subconsciously picking people who weren't relationship material. Then I was single because a four year relationship turned out to be badly bipolar and a liar. Odds are I'll be OLD again sometime in the future given CMMs prognosis. Does any of that make ME an undesirable date? I don't think so. Plenty of normal people are online dating too.
I neglected to say that I’m not just talking about OLD I’m talking across the board and available. More importantly I fully intended to point out and again totally forgot, that there are exceptions to everything. Just as I’m sure there are undesirable people still married or in a relationship I’m just as sure there are perfectly normal and desirable ones who are not. That said the overwhelming majority as I see it are single for a reason. My point is on average the pool of available people is less desirable than the pool of married or in a relationship people and that is for a good reason. Again it’s certainly not everybody and I know there are decent single people out there. However if I could also pick from married or in a relationship I fully believe I’d have higher-quality to pick from.
I think your major deal breaker is the woman not wanting to go exactly at your pace. You run like heck if she says anything along the lines of wanting a relationship in the beginning. You think that's clingy person, when in reality that is an honest person and what most people wants. It's not like they are saying they need to have it with you, but that is an end goal for most people.
Even when you comment on something I might have said that eludes to a guy that I care for him or temp check where we are, to you that is SOOOO unattractive. It's kind of normal as long as it's not excessive, it's the right timing, etc. You are just so particular about how a woman acts towards you, everything is a turn off! Yet WG, with her pining over and ex BF and her hot/cold isn't.
I don't mean this insultingly, but I think you might make too many assumptions and too many things turn you off before you even get to know them, but those things are typical of women.
Yes, I do accept a wide variety of people. Looks wise, it's been different across the board. I also am very aware of what league I am in, and I try not to look outside of it. (not saying you do, but many people do). I am not going for Mr. Hottie everyone drools all over. I know better. I think there are many people who have a lot of different things to offer and different personality types that I am compatible with. I am ultra tolerant of some traits I don't agree with when there are some that just shine.
But you should be true to yourself. If you are very very particular about what you want and how you want it, just be aware, your chances of finding exactly that are slim. Something has to give somewhere. Alls I am saying is don't be surprised it is so hard. It doesn't mean everyone is a misfit because they don't check your boxes, you just have very very particular taste, and that kind of comes with the territory.
I agree with most everything you said and now explained. I guess I don't see what you are talking about as "deal breakers" and that's why I was confused. I see them more as my traits.
I don't mean this insultingly, but I think you might make too many assumptions and too many things turn you off before you even get to know them, but those things are typical of women.
It's funny that you say that because it's something I've admitted before - maybe not here but in RL. Wild Girl and I even talked about how she has some male traits and I have some female. I'm very much a thinker. I very much read situations - and am usually correct. The thing is I often jump to early conclusions and like everyone, I'm not always right - just more often than not. That's something one of my best friends has said about me forever - how I often jump to an immediate conclusion but then end up being correct. So it's hard not to, even though I know I should not.
Even when you comment on something I might have said that eludes to a guy that I care for him or temp check where we are, to you that is SOOOO unattractive. It's kind of normal as long as it's not excessive, it's the right timing, etc.
I again very much agree - especially with the timing. My fear for you is you do it far too soon. I think it's rather normal at about the 6 months mark - you are more towards the 6 week mark. I don't think either of us is right or wrong, but for me, a couple months in is too soon for that type of thing.
But you should be true to yourself. If you are very very particular about what you want and how you want it, just be aware, your chances of finding exactly that are slim. Something has to give somewhere. Alls I am saying is don't be surprised it is so hard. It doesn't mean everyone is a misfit because they don't check your boxes, you just have very very particular taste, and that kind of comes with the territory.
I again so much agree, and the bottom line of it all is really sad - and I'm not surprised it's been this hard. It's not like I try to be particular - I just am. It's how I'm built, how I'm wired - in ALL PHASES of my life. I'm this same way when it comes to music, to EMS or marketing or management or anything I do in my life. I strive for the very highest, very best in all that I do and do not settle for less. I've felt my chances are slim all along and yep here I am about 10 years later with really no significant (more than 6 months) Rs to show for it. And that is really starting to get to me. I can't get those years back. I think of how much fun I had this summer and am sad that I didn't have as much fun in 2017, 2016, 2015, etc. I feel like I've got my life sooooooo together in every other way. I'm in great health, financially set for life, huge life accomplishments. No drama, no skeletons that I've not dealt with. Can come and go as I please. Great step-kids that I'm very proud of, same with my nieces and family. On and on - yet here I am by myself most of the time. In some ways I feel like I've got to go back to just resigning myself to this is how it is going to be. I'm still much happier this way than I'd be with someone I don't want to be with. But I know I'm still missing out - especially when it comes to things like, yes I'm going to say it again, the cruise. LOL. A little less than two months and you guys won't have to hear me obsess about it anymore - unless of course, the promoters are thrilled with how it goes and want us to repeat again in January, 2020 - yeah, it could very well happen! LOL But my point is, things like that, at least for me, are soooooo much more fun with a partner.
At least I'm more aware so hopefully I can start to alter course. However, in many ways I feel like it's almost uncontrollable. It's not like I look to find these things or try to be turned off by them - it just happens. In fact, it sort of did yet again yesterday. I'll tell that story along with some other thoughts and observations of OLD in another post. But the feeling just comes over me. I don't know if it's related to my exW. I think it might be - at least in part. Whatever it is, it just happens and I turn off.
I'm just in a funk here. Even doing nearly a week full of GAL activities last week - pretty much every day/night, I'm still just not in a good place and I don't at all like it - not one bit!
Don - I think you're actually realizing that you may be lonely for companionship. And maybe that doesn't have to look like marriage and commitment but that one regular woman in your life would be nice. Seems to me it shouldn't actually be that hard to find someone like-minded, but it definitely does take a lot of energy to date and sift through bunches of people to find compatible ones. Regular sex is definitely a great benefit of being in a relationship of some sort.
And you're right - it's easy to let a lot of time slip by post-divorce and then realize that time would have been better spent with a companion. It's just sometimes hard to gear up for the difficult work of dating.
Totally agree with kml. I think you are beginning to realize that while you say you want one thing, you may actually want more than that. One thing stands out to me about your posts. You continually mention that there just aren't quality single people and that the quality people are married or in long-term relationships. I know I have disagreed with you on that to a certain extent more than once, as do some others. I mean, yes, there is a lack of quality people once you get to a certain age (and yes, I am in that age group too), but I don't think lack = complete absence. But, something hit me last night as I was reading through some of the recent posts and I ask this with all due respect, as it will come across as harsh and I certainly don't mean for it to. But, if you believe that all quality people are coupled up, why are YOU single? I ask this more as a point of giving you something to think about than trying to slam you, because I wonder if you have given thought to that. You have listed your own positive attributes, which are great, and you have listed some deal breakers. Others on here have pointed out even more deal breakers that you may or may not think of as deal breakers and yet you remain single. Could it be that some of those quality folks that are out there and NOT coupled are also single for reasons that might be in line with your reasons? Maybe it isn't so much a lack of quality people as it is a bunch of people who refuse to settle.
Totally agree with kml. I think you are beginning to realize that while you say you want one thing, you may actually want more than that. One thing stands out to me about your posts. You continually mention that there just aren't quality single people and that the quality people are married or in long-term relationships. I know I have disagreed with you on that to a certain extent more than once, as do some others. I mean, yes, there is a lack of quality people once you get to a certain age (and yes, I am in that age group too), but I don't think lack = complete absence. But, something hit me last night as I was reading through some of the recent posts and I ask this with all due respect, as it will come across as harsh and I certainly don't mean for it to. But, if you believe that all quality people are coupled up, why are YOU single? I ask this more as a point of giving you something to think about than trying to slam you, because I wonder if you have given thought to that. You have listed your own positive attributes, which are great, and you have listed some deal breakers. Others on here have pointed out even more deal breakers that you may or may not think of as deal breakers and yet you remain single. Could it be that some of those quality folks that are out there and NOT coupled are also single for reasons that might be in line with your reasons? Maybe it isn't so much a lack of quality people as it is a bunch of people who refuse to settle. Just food for thought..................................
Don - I think you're actually realizing that you may be lonely for companionship. And maybe that doesn't have to look like marriage and commitment but that one regular woman in your life would be nice.
Very on target yet again KML, as you often have been with me. Clearly, whatever I had with Wild Girl this summer has me wanting more (of the good parts) on a regular basis. This happened to me in somewhat the same way 21 or 22 years ago. It was not too long after that I met my now Ex W.
Seems to me it shouldn't actually be that hard to find someone like-minded, but it definitely does take a lot of energy to date and sift through bunches of people to find compatible ones.
No, you might not think so but clearly it has been - at least for me - as evidenced by if nothing else my lack of results. I've not done a great job of dating but it's not like I've not tried either. Like I've said before, I've gone out with about 25 women in the last 7 or 8 years. No, that may not be a huge number but I know I've asked out at least twice that amount if not three times?. So it's not like I'm not trying. For me it really seems to clearly have been, as I keep saying over and over, I'm picky, I don't connect with all that many and then when I do, they don't always connect with me. In another post you talked about dating up. Yes, that's clearly me. I mostly date up - at least looks wise. I don't want to sound too egotistically but it's harder for me to date up on the other things - but there too I am picky. Of those I have dated, the far majority are rather good looking. My ex W was beautiful - but also smart, fun, and all sorts of other good things. It was the bad things I didn't spot soon enough. If I know the person first, looks are not as big of a deal and I have dated some pretty average looking women who became more beautiful to me over time. So it really is not all looks for me but especially OLD - what else do I have to go on? And if I can't get a romantic feeling while with them, what's the point - there has to be attraction.
If there is any saving grace to this, it's that I've not ended Rs or broken up with anyone that I now regret or who could have been what I'm looking for. By that I mean, I never ended it with anyone who wanted to get too serious and I bailed. That never happened - perhaps because it's never gotten to that point. So at least I don't have regrets about that. I could perhaps regret not trying harder. Mostly I regret life just not being nice to me and putting someone in my path.
I've got to get that post up about my latest OLD revelations - and some more intel/info on online girl.
You continually mention that there just aren't quality single people and that the quality people are married or in long-term relationships. I know I have disagreed with you on that to a certain extent more than once, as do some others.
But, if you believe that all quality people are coupled up, why are YOU single?
Good point - and one that I've thought about. I'll take one more stab at all of this. I swear that what I'm trying to convey, I'm simply not. That could well be because I'm not communicating well - although I also have to wonder if readers don't see me say "all the good ones are taken" think, "screw him, I'm a good one and I'm not taken, so he's wrong!" Or some form of that, and never get beyond that speed bump to see my larger point.
First and foremost, I'm not speaking in absolutes - and rarely if ever do. Not EVERYONE who would be a quality match for me is taken. I'm POSITIVE there are some who are very single. However, many are not - perhaps many more than in my earlier life. Let me try it this way, and I'm using hypothetical, ballpark statistics here - not real stats that I can stand behind. But, let's say that when I was in my 20s 75% of the single people were of a caliber that I could see myself with. Most were never married and just getting into adulthood. Whatever the reason, it at least more felt that way and I went at it that way. Sure, I've matured, I've got baggage, they have baggage, I've been hurt, things change, but it's almost as now it's flipped and 25% of the available ones are of that quality and 75% are not. Can we just agree on that? I'm happy to put you and KML and Ginger, Juju, all of you in that 25% category. Still, 3 out of 4 are not. That's all I'm saying. or desperately trying to say. I just heard the line in a radio ad this morning - "all the good ones are taken" so clearly I didn't come up with this theory - it's been around a long time. It's partly why I move widows to the front of the line - right or wrong.
Does that make more sense? It's likely closer to reality too and if it is, it's a huge change and much bigger challenge going from 3 out of 4 you meet or date being a potential good match to 1 out of 4. Is it just luck? I think a huge part is the people involved and what they are willing to accept. I've read here how at least a few women have been dating for several years the very first person they met from OLD. How can that be? How can THEY meet "the one" on the first try yet Ginger and I have to go through dozens and dozens? Why is that? How can this college dean I had hopes of meeting and possibly asking out be married for nearly 25 years, have her D final in Spring and already have a boyfriend??????????????????????????? How is that possible yet here I am 12 years later? And no he was not in the picture before (at least I'm told he was not) Maybe it's as simple as she and the other here that I site as an example are not looking for the next best, are able to find attraction in a wide variety so that first good one comes along and they take him - while many of these others don't know what they want, don't want anyone they find, always want the next best, find fault in everyone. Something is going on here.
Or is that me too? As for me, yeah, I don't disagree. I've said it many times, I feel like my life has pretty much been a home-run - with the major exception of my love life. I've accomplished so much. I have so many people that look up to me in what I've done in music, in EMS, etc. Yet I've always struggled with a love life - always. I do okay socially but I don't light up a room or attract a crowd when I talk. Yet if you were having a heart attack or wanted a killer production for your music, all of those people would come straight to me and get me - not nearly so much if you were looking for a boyfriend. That's how I feel anyhow - and it's happened in real life that way.
So take that together with the nature of what I don't want, am not willing to accept, not willing to tolerate, I'm probably now one of those 75% that I just talked about. So I don't disagree with you Dawn. Yet, I think if I could meet the right person, I would be a great partner. Again, I've got many of the other things solidly in place and always have. I thought I had started to get there and perhaps even I had three or four years prior to meeting my exW. I had even thought back then "Dang I wish I knew then what I know now about women and life" I could look back and see how many opportunities I had missed. I thought I had figured it out. Then bomb drop hit 13 years ago and in some ways I've felt like I am back in high school again. Then with added rejection I lose more self esteem in that area and it is what it is.
So the bottom line of what I'm trying to say, is rather than having a pool where 3 out of 4 are "good ones" like I think was the case early on and is closer to the case now with those M and in an R, I'm facing a 1 out of 4 chance. Still not terrible odds, but it's where women like the one Joseph recently found reside. And I'm only giving a slightly educated guess at those odds. It could well be closer to 1 out of 6 or 8 or even 1 out of 10.
I'll try to work on this OLD and dating thoughts post later. Again some very interesting, at least to me, insights that I've again found. Spoiler alert, after doing some sleuthing on Match where my account remains but has been hidden for years, I'm seeing some of the very same women I used to see three years ago - some of which I reached out to and never got a response - and I'm seeing them on constantly, all time of day - actually anytime I log in - there they are. It's almost become their hobby!!! Something is clearly wrong with this picture!
I do actually understand what you are saying about the odds and maybe, for me, it is semantics and nothing more. I am not a young person any more either and dating/finding love is definitely a young person's game when it comes to the available pool that you mentioned. And, from that standpoint, I totally agree with what you say. I'm not discounting what you say based on thinking that I'm a good match so screw you, you must be wrong. I KNOW I'm a good catch for the right person, but for several on the board, likely yourself included, I would not even get the time of day because I'm NOT what you are looking for and that is perfectly fine. We all have preferences.
I think, for me, when phrase it the way you do, it sounds like you are saying that it isn't even worth worrying with because there is not one single suitable person out there for you. I really don't think that is how you mean it and now that you have explained again, I KNOW that is not how you mean it, so like I said, it is semantics. I totally agree that at our age group, the pool is MUCH smaller than it used to be. But, for someone like me, the pool was never very big to begin with. You said it yourself, you don't "light up the room"....I'm right there with you, my man. I'm that girl that all the guys love because I'm funny, I cuss, I drink beer and I don't get offended by their dirty jokes, but I can also give them sound advice about women and I have some pretty cute friends. But date ME? No thanks, Dawn is "one of the guys" because she's not pretty enough to be taken seriously as a woman. And, that's ok. Not to hi-jack your page here, but in some ways, I think you and I have some similarities. I feel like my life is a home as well, except for the whole love thing. I have a lot to offer but since the good Lord didn't see fit to wrap it all up in a pretty package, it gets overlooked. And, not that I have never had a date or whatever, because obviously I find men who are attracted to me (Sparky isn't the first or I would've never shown up on this site to start with), but I have never had a huge pool where I could just pick and choose and date up a storm. Those experiences shape who we ultimately are.
So, yeah, I appreciate your explanation and don't even necessarily disagree with it. Just really wanted to give you something to think about in general, as when you talk about the pool being smaller for you, it is also smaller for all of the single, available women in this age group.
It's partly why I move widows to the front of the line - right or wrong.
You need to go to more funerals
Actually I met the lady I write about at her Dad's funeral a few years ago - not what you are talking about though ...
I've read here how at least a few women have been dating for several years the very first person they met from OLD. How can that be? How can THEY meet "the one" on the first try yet Ginger and I have to go through dozens and dozens?
I'll try to work on this OLD and dating thoughts post later. Again some very interesting, at least to me, insights that I've again found. Spoiler alert, after doing some sleuthing on Match where my account remains but has been hidden for years, I'm seeing some of the very same women I used to see three years ago - some of which I reached out to and never got a response - and I'm seeing them on constantly, all time of day - actually anytime I log in - there they are. It's almost become their hobby!!! Something is clearly wrong with this picture!
My own profile has hidden for over a year now - mostly because I'm reluctant to put myself "out there" and I see similar things.
The first part is what they call in business "churn". Freshly single people who are wanting to be "coupled" (I think) have a fairly short shelf life especially if they are "sparkly". They get in, find someone and get out. Or get in, get horrified and get out. Most of the single women of my acquaintance do not do the on-line dating thing. Their sparkle level varies.
Are these people "settling" for the first decent match they get? No clue. I don't personally know anyone who has done the online-dating thing successfully.
Because I like bad analogies, it is indeed like a pond. When you are looking for a fish you see the sparkly ones near the surface getting snapped up quickly. There is a fair amount of catch and release with the fish getting less attractive and more wary each time and some just getting snagged on your hook as you troll. And then there's the big lunkers hiding in the weeds. That's us - invisible.
In some ways J9 has a good plan. Instead of being the fisherman, he's the fish. I'm confident myself that if I were to open up my profile, post pictures of me at the theatre, on a tropical beach, baking pies AND disclose my income that I'd probably be a sparkly fish myself.
I have noticed several of the "long-timers" delete and recreate their profiles on a regular basis. There is a bias in the algorithms I would think to encourage a rapid churn among the clientele.
Just my own thoughts - and no answers.
All things considered I guess it was not too bad of a Thanksgiving extended weekend. It certainly can't be said that I've not been trying to GAL and doing those types of activities. Has it helped? Well, as it was happening I didn't so much think so but now today in looking back maybe it has made me feel a bit better. It certainly gave me some great people watching.
In the past 6 years on even numbered years I was out of state. Not this time so it left me the "opportunity" to do Thanksgiving with my sister-in-law's side of the family. My brother and SIL have been married for a little over 25 years. Their girls are now out of the house and off on their own and at least for now they are still holding it together - although clearly doing so by doing many things apart. I've not seen many from that side of the family in a while and not interacted in a long while. It was actually a nice time. There were about 25 people total - including those from my close family including my parents.
The people watching started as the adopted son of SIL's aunt (her mom's sister) showed up with one or two of his kids. He's around 42-45 I'm guessing. I have no idea what his ancestry is - but appears sort of middle eastern type??? I've never really known him well, just know of how people speak of him. I believe he is twice D although not positive - once for certain. He is very, very smart - book smart, but has always struggled with life. Professional student might best describe him as he has three or four degrees including two masters but has never worked in any of them and is currently managing a restaurant or brew pub or something like that. Again, nice enough guy, just very, very quiet, no social skills that I see. Anyhow, his teen aged son looked very much like him - very much has the same ethnic attributes. His "daughter" who looks a bit older on the other hand did not. She is beyond beautiful and looked to me to be very close in many ways to my niece 23 - who is also very, very smart (in school to become a dentist), very pretty, very personable - yes I think very, very highly of my niece. Anyhow, I could see this guys D - who I later found out to be 26, so 3 years old than my niece - being much like her. Turns out she too has a masters - in museum history or something like that - and is thinking of going for a second as she currently works as a waitress at a restaurant.
As the evening wore on I began to think, hmmmmmm this might not be his daughter after all. Oh wait, she's sharing a large chair with him now and he's stroking her back - OMG this is his GIRL FRIEND!!!!!!! I'm cracking up all over again just typing this story out. Now, I felt and still feel a little angst dating a 42 year old at 55. I could not imagine being 45 and dating a 26 year old. This of course brought up all sorts of question in my mind - moreso about her. I mean, stunning would not be an overstatement. Obviously has to have some brains and in the little I spoke with her seemed to. My mouth is still open. Oh and this guy, BEYOND geeky. How does a stunning, beautiful, smart, 26 year old want to date a geeky, loser type 45 year old with teenagers????????? I don't get it, I could not do it, but whatever. Clearly even THIS GUY has more game than I do. LMAO!
The last time I was with family two months ago I was somewhat grilled about Wild Girl. Clearly that is no longer even a blip on the radar and no one even mentioned it. Totally fine by me.
Friday brought what many now call a "friendsgiving" with a bunch of friends from high school. It was held at a place only 5 minutes from where I live - pretty much just about the only thing 5 minutes from where I live. There were about 20 of us although I really only knew about a half dozen of them well. Some I barely remembered their names much less recognized them - at all. There were three guys who I hung out with often in high school and then three of the girls the same - including one I 'dated' but again at 17 so.... Let's just look at those 7 of us. Of the guys, all of us have been D'd, two of them are re-married. The girls, two are D'd with only one of this group married for a single time - in fact I'm pretty certain my band played for her wedding some 30+ years ago. Good for her. The rest of us? It was somewhat interesting how four of us (two guys and two of the women) are not dating anyone seriously and have not since our D. We all agreed it was so much harder now and less fulfilling. I'm D'd the longest though with the others 1 year, 5 years and one I think 9 years now.
Saturday brought a HUGE and i mean HUGE event that I performed at. Had to be over a thousand people in this, well can't call it a tent - portable building is more like it with doors, indoor portas and the like. Was a great time and got to see many, many people. Wild Girls parents, aunt and WG were all supposed to be there but decided it was just too much of a hassle to get in with parking and really didn't want to miss the Christmas Parade in their hometown so they were a no show. No real surprise.
After we were done and everyone left I met up a block away with a friend I've had since I was 20, maybe 21? So, a long, long time. The last time I saw her was nearly a year ago although this is one of those where we pick up right where we left off. We ended up talking and catching up until past midnight. She mentioned this guy who she claims is my twin in personality. She has said this about a well known radio personality here in town (he also fills in now and then for Rush) and in this case she is very accurate and I very much agree. After hearing more about this other guy and then seeing his picture, I was like, THAT'S who you think is my TWIN?????? OMG - is that really how people see me? I so hope she's off base on that one or I don't come across even close to how I think I do. That was a gut punch.
Sunday was a down day and then the snow hit. Now living in Wisconsin I'm used to it - but this is our second snow already this year - which that is not typical and to get something of this size this soon is not at all even close to typical. The cruise is 7 weeks now from this Thursday and can't come soon enough.
What else is there, oh, college dean might not be taken after all. In fact, I wonder if Wild Girl is not screwing this up for me in that College Dean's friends are not about to set her up with a guy who is still sort of dating someone else including taking that someone on an 8 day vacation. I'm not sure about that, but with a couple of things that were said about timing and even a direct mention of Wild Girl, I'm wondering. That would be truly sad as this girl actually seems like a potential keeper. Life is all about timing, however, and there is nothing I can do about it at this point other than hope that at the end of January I figure out a way to meet her in person - and she's still available when I do.
I've not head from the online girl at all since last week Sunday. We went out for a few hours a week ago Saturday, texted a little on Sunday but that was it. I did not reach out to her and she has not reached out to me. Guess that one may be done - or will be one of those spur of the moment/last minute type of "hey how are you do you want to go to ____ with me this weekend? type of thing.
Meeting even more friends on Tuesday - this time from my fire department past. Hmmmmm, seems like lots of this is about my past, doesn't it?
Pretty vanilla update I guess. At least I'm not as much in a funk as I was. Might work on a Christmas song to put out on social media this week. I've done this before a couple of times with my good friend who died of lung CA this past January doing some nice video slide show pictures to the music. Until I get off my @ss and do my real Christmas recording, putting one of these songs out every few years is the best I've done. Those of you who are friends with me on Facebook can see the old ones and will see this new one - if I get it done that is.
Other than that, not much else. Still wishing I had June, July, August back.
Whatever I'm doing here has clearly turned into more of a journal than anything LOL. Then again, what is there to say. It is interesting to look back - which I did - all the way back 10 plus years. For example I found that KML was here way back then when I first was going through my bomb drop and D. I didn't remember that KML until reading your posts to me and seeing we have some mutual "friends" from here including FIB - who is a surgeon in NY I still am in touch with now and then. It's like my life in words.
Anyhow, I thought I'd give a bit of an update - which really not much I guess. I've done so great on the GAL but still have been a bit in a funk - and I don't know why. I've not had much if any urge to reach out to Wild Girl or Online Girl. Of course, I'm sure all of you can guess what happens when they don't hear from me... Yep, of course, they reach out. Now with Online Girl I was actually surprised. It had been over two weeks since we last went out and I actually didn't think I'd hear from her again. I thought perhaps our paths would cross later - next summer perhaps. Then ding and here is a text "just checking in with you" she says. Hmmmm, is that a temp check, I wonder? She actually did start her new 3rd shift job. I have no idea how she is doing it and then add to it, her oldest son who was living with a GF out west broke up with her and is coming home to mom. So she will have all three kids back home, working midnight until 8 AM and trying to keep things going with the kids. When is there time to "date?". It lowers my interest level as well. We are not done with whatever it is we are doing but I don't know what the next move will be either. I'll either get contact from her or me to her or perhaps one of us will have something pop up that we know the other might enjoy and that will bring us together. Just not feeling a good LTR or even R vibe from her - not with so much going on in life.
I last talked with Wild Girl on Thanksgiving. I thought I might see her and her family the Saturday after but that did not happen. I really didn't communicate with her at all until I got a text saying her passport came. Hmmmm, well clearly she's still in for the cruise - or so I thought. So I called her last week Saturday and got VM - which I actually left a message - something I rarely do. Did not hear back, did not hear back did not hear back. HMmmmm, so in my funk, I'm again thinking, if she waited until six weeks out I'm going to be really, really p!ssed. Spoiler alert, that didn't happen. I finally could not take it any more and called her this AM. She answered right away and was very bubbly. I'm like, did you get my message? "What message?" She has never lied and I doubt this time was any different - in fact she argued with me "Don, I have no message here from you at all in fact I don't remember you even calling... um, oh, wait a second, and I hear my message being played back... Whoopsee, guess you did call."
So there you go, misunderstandings do happen and miscommunications. She gave me her passport info and sure enough the issue date was three days prior to her text - so clearly she texted as soon as it arrived. So, I've really got to stop even thinking, this is a done deal, she's going. Of course now I'm thinking, crap, 11 days and 10 nights together with the same person? But I'll obsess about that later I guess. At least what I really wanted to happen will and I'm pretty sure we'll have the same great time we've always had together (and the same great sex). After that.... who knows and I won't even guess but I'm pretty sure I'll be fine with whatever it is.
As I said on another thread, there is this dating "coach" that some here have talked about. I finally purchased his book and will give my own little review here. So far, I can't disagree with much of what he's said. He writes better than his videos but even his writing is not that great. My largest complaints are he repeats himself all the time. So much so in fact I thought for sure I had read this already - but nope it's just pretty much the same things written a little differently. Not sure why he'd do that and then on top of it rather than write out other suggestions he say's Google my video called" and wants you to leave the book to watch a video. Really? Dude I purchased the book to read it not go to your videos. Then again, what should I expect for $8 bucks - right. That's the early review. I'll give a more full recap when I get through the book. Don't hold your breath though as much of this is common sense and the same type of things others, including MWD, have said.
Lots of Christmas Parties to perform at. I did about 20 seconds of music that appeared a few weeks ago on the Country Music Awards. That was kinda cool - although I have no idea why they didn't just use stock music as they could have - but yet it was great money and I get to say I played on the CMAs - well sorta anyhow.
Gave a 40 year old a digital coupon for a birthday drink and birthday kiss (if you're lucky) last week. She lives about 300 miles away and I won't see her until February. Her response "I can't wait - THANK YOU". So we'll see where that goes. It's more just fun and flirty than anything.
20 days until Christmas, 26 until New Years Eve and 45 until the cruise. How many days until I'm out of my funk? LOL
Then ding and here is a text "just checking in with you" she says. Hmmmm, is that a temp check, I wonder?
Come on Don you would know instantly what to do if you read the book 10-15 times.
When a girl reaches out to you assume she wants to see you. Hey OL girl it was great to hear from you, I would love to see you when are you free to get together? When she gives you her availability make a date or great why don't you pick up a bottle of wine and come to my house and we'll make dinner together.
Be a man be direct and make a date.
When a girl reaches out to you assume she wants to see you. Hey OL girl it was great to hear from you, I would love to see you when are you free to get together? When she gives you her availability make a date or great why don't you pick up a bottle of wine and come to my house and we'll make dinner together.
Be a man be direct and make a date.
I don't at all disagree with you - I'm just not feeling it. To be honest, I am just not feeling anyone it seems - at least sort of. Part of me feels like I'm getting back to where I was when I finally gave up dating for awhile two years ago. I had just had enough and was not attracted to pretty much anyone I was meeting. I took a break then started dating again about six months later. It was then the beginning of this year where I stepped up my dating game due in part, perhaps large part, for needing a date for that cruise.
I talked with online girl again this past weekend briefly. Her S17 did a discovery flight and signed up to start taking flying lessons. Being a pilot myself since 1991, I wanted to see how it went so I gave her a quick call. Kinda of the same drill, drama and busy, was just taking a nap - though she did answer the phone. Then again, I can't hardly blame her as I can only imagine what it's like to try to raise two teens, have S25 move back after a suicide attempt and then start a new job working midnight to 8 AM five nights a week - then switch back to "real life" again for the weekend - only to go back to overnights again. Has to be brutal. I may - I stress may - see if she wants to get together for Christmas here - drinks or music or sight seeing lights or something. Will see if I'm "feeling it" If she is still "too busy" or "too tired" or too whatever, I won't bother. Then again, I was already there once when she reached out to me - which is what prompted your comment.
Talked with my friend who really wants me to meet the college dean lady. Sadly she is still dating "Bob" whomever that is. The story goes, she really was not looking to date and does not want an R but somehow crossed paths with this Bob guy a month or two ago and they went out and are now doing some dating. My take was, well if she doesn't want serious, why not date other guys as well? My other comment was if she's falling for the first guy she dates and is already getting serious she was not for me anyhow. Just not my type - especially 6 months after a 25 year marriage ends. You know what does bother me about this??? the fact that it doesn't really bother me. It's like more parr for the course - of course someone who looks great on paper won't become a reality - that's pretty much life. We'll see if my friend creates an opportunity for us to meet or not - sadly I'm not even caring at this point.
The long awaited cruise is now 5 weeks from tomorrow (well 5 weeks from Saturday but we will gather Thursday night for a 6 AM flight Friday). This really went pretty much EXACTLY like I wanted it to go. I didn't look back but I'm willing to bet you could find posts from me back in March/April saying I was hesitant to have to date someone all the way through and how it would be nice if I could meet someone who was fun but even if we didn't hang out much we'd still do great and just go on the cruise. Well I got it nearly item for item - only now I am not wanting it. She's been more open and reaching out - especially now that items are coming up, paperwork is arriving, luggage tags, plans, etc. And I can't say she's done anything wrong. Who knows, maybe it's all for the best as we didn't risk getting in a fight or whatever and are now both looking forward to seeing each other again - or so it seems. Again, more truth, I really have not asked her out in I'll bet a couple of months. I was sick of hearing how busy she is so I just stopped. So that part is on me.
So, I'm a bit resentful, yet, I am getting more excited too and trying just to shrug off the resentment as she's done nothing wrong - I could full well have told her I'm taking someone else. That was my choice. I'm a bit apprehensive in spending 11 days and 10 nights in a row with the same woman. I've not done that since my D 12 years ago. Neither has she I'm pretty sure since her D 9 years ago. I'm sure we'll be fine - or at least I'm highly confident. Whatever is going to happen is going to happen. I certainly don't want to get into an argument or debate about it when I next see her so my plan is to just enjoy it and we'll see how things end.
Get the feeling I would not have been happy no matter how things had gone? Yeah, I'm still kinda dark and down - you can probably tell that from my writing. Although, not significantly, just more than I was 6 months ago. I'm pretty sure everything will fall into place. And I'm positive it could most certainly be worse...
I'll end with this final irony. So I was the guy first worried I'd not find someone I want to take and then later that Wild Girl would back out on me. So what actually might happen, the 2 year GF of the drummer may be (should be) kicking is arse to the curb. Long story but he met up with his ex GF for the third time (that is known) this weekend and for the third time his GF found out about it. Why she is putting up with this is again another story for another time. But would that not be ironic if he's the 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th wheel rather than me? Then again, we've not left yet. A lot could happen in five weeks LOL.
Dude, you sound depressed to me. AS it's winter time - do you have a history of getting the winter blues? Should you be taking vitamin D, using a light box? Both are great for seasonal depression.
I think you'll have a fine time on the cruise, just make sure to get enough alone time if you can.
And I'll reiterate - I think the real reason why you are feeling this way is because you started to WANT something, and since that didn't quite materialize, you're back in a slump of thinking you don't need it anyway.
Yes, dating is work but you do have a lot to offer the right woman, and you seem to enjoy the company of a woman. Don't give up so easily.
BOB - Battery Operated Boyfriend
Dude, you sound depressed to me.
I really don't think so - and while I don't have much of a history of depression, I believe I have had it twice in my life, used medication for like six months once, and I can tell you that how I feel now is not even close to how I felt back then. I'm more indifferent than anything. It's not like it was back then when I really had no ambition to do anything, could not get work done, slept a lot, watched lots and lots and lots of TV in my PJs, etc. That's not at all where I am.
And I'll reiterate - I think the real reason why you are feeling this way is because you started to WANT something, and since that didn't quite materialize, you're back in a slump of thinking you don't need it anyway.
I don't disagree although the slump is more like I felt a couple of years ago before "giving up" when I figured if I'm going to get the same end result anyhow - being by myself - why go through all the pain to get the same result? At least I was no longer feeling crappy from all of the failed attempts. But this is somewhat different as I was having a lot more fun - even though I knew it would never lead to anything significant. I was just thinking about this a couple of days ago - how this time I had a lot of fun and felt pretty darn good for over three months, but now I feel kinda crappy. So is/was it worth it?
I'm still optimistic we'll have a great time on the cruise. It's just a bit odd that I'm going to be with someone for 10 days straight who I have not seen in nearly three months and only talk to now and then. I mean going on even a short vacation for the first time with someone can really be challenging - and telling. It just seems so odd to be distant now and then sleeping in the same bed for 10 days.
I'm also fighting to not become resentful about it. It was totally my choice to ask her and to stick with it even after she started to become distant, but another part of me is like, c'mon I'm taking you on a bigger vacation than you've been on in many years and this is how you act? Even though I know it won't matter when we are together and it will likely be the same as it was this summer where we just have this natural connection, I'm fighting to not feel used - even though I really don't think I am being used, but the feeling is still there.
Yes, dating is work but you do have a lot to offer the right woman, and you seem to enjoy the company of a woman. Don't give up so easily.
Again, I know you are right - about dating being work and not giving up so easily at least. Right or wrong/good or bad, I'm just not used to failure and I guess I don't take it well. I'm used to success everything I do and most of those things have been extremely successful and comes very easy to me. Relationships never have - well not as easy as everything else. I'm just frustrated and like I said, almost feeling indifferent - like whatever, I just don't care, it's just not worth it. I feel like I can't win.
Enough of that... On a far better note, even though I woke up with the same indifference, my phone seemed to be blowing up this AM - what the h%ll is going on with all of these SPAM and robo calls. My Lord. Anyhow, I let a real call go to voice mail and it turned out to be a call for another trip. Honestly, these things like the cruise next month do not come up that much yet here's another one - this time to Europe for a week in April. Same deal as the cruise - EXCEPT ----- before long time readers scream "Oh no, not this again," I do not have to nor get to bring a date. LOL So everyone, including myself, can breathe a sigh of relief - we all won't have to go through the Don needs a date for a vacation saga again. And this is not a cruise nor is it like the couples vibe that the cruise will be - I'll be more than comfortable going without a date as that will be the case of most or at least many of the dozen or so other musicians being hired to go. I've never been to Europe and have always wanted to go. This same promoter from the Netherlands tried to get me and others to do something like this right after my D. Sadly it fell through right after my passport arrived. It's not a done deal yet but it looks promising and I should know in a few weeks. I can't tell you how relieved I am that they are not offering for me to bring a guest - how F'd up is that LMAO!
A week in Europe on someone else's dime? Awesome!!!
Wow, I kinda didn't see this one coming. Perhaps given my less than standard happiness baseline lately I should have. Christmas for a while now has neither been great nor terrible. I don't typically get the "Christmas Blues" or anything but it's also not like it used to be - perhaps that's mostly what I think I'm feeling, but, this Christmas kinda stunk.
It started out interesting enough when I got a text out of the blue from, let's call her Swedish Goddess. LOL. I'm calling her that, not so much because she is, but she has a not too typical first name and when I mentioned this to a friend two years ago, my friend said, "oohh like a Swedish swimsuit model's name." So I went with it.
Swedish Goddess is a strange story in itself. Not sure if I've told it here or not, but four years ago this pretty, classy, well-dressed, thick - let's call her voluptuous - woman showed up in church by herself on Christmas Eve and needed a seat. Had I been a little bit quicker she could have sat next to me but ended up directly in front of me. We chatted just a tiny bit but when I left, for some reason I thought I'd look her up. Having such a unique name (I got it off her communion card), she was easy to find and I sent her a Facebook message. Back then, it was difficult at best to message someone you were not friends with. I never heard back - and didn't think I would. I just said something like "You sat one pew too far forward in church. Just Sayin. - Don't panic, a friend gave me your name. Have a Merry Christmas!"
Anyhow, never heard anything until just about two years later - which would also be two years ago - when out of the blue she saw the message and responded. We chatted a little but never met up. So here we are four years from then and two years later and what do you think happens? LOL Life, I swear. Yep, got another message from her saying she was going to be at church with her family Christmas Eve. She's now 44 (she was 40 when I first met her). We both were not sure we were looking at the right person but after our eyes met for a good long time, I got up and walked up to her. I sat and chatted with her prior to the service and then again a little bit afterwards. She said I could have sat with her and her family for the service, but I was leaving my family and I, don't know, it just felt a bit odd, so she said we'd meet up after the service. It was very busy with everyone leaving but we did hug and talk for a minute. We agreed we'd keep in touch. She does not regularly attend my church (but then again neither do I) although her parents are very involved.
Again, this was Christmas Eve. So on Christmas Day, my mom says, "Who were you talking with at church." Hmmmmmm, so how do I answer this to my 80 year old mother. I explained it and who she was including former neighbors of my SIL's parents - to which my dad says, "are you talking about" and names Swedish Goddess' father. "We go to breakfast with them all of the time, we've been friends with them for years, how do you know their daughter?" OMG, the things I get myself into. So I guess our family's have long been friends - although I had zero clue. I don't think she has either. I'm going to relay this info to her next time we talk.
So will I ask her out.... Hmmmmmmmmmm not sure. She's my type, looks-wise, but then again not. It would really come down to our connection which I didn't feel a huge one - but c'mon it was like 10 or 15 minutes chatting in church prior to Christmas Eve service so I'm not sure how much I'll have or feel. She was rather friendly, very nice smile, certainly nice family. She was D'd I think 7 or 8 years ago. No kids. No boyfriend that I can tell from social media. While if timing worked I'd ask her out, part of me would rather wait until after the cruise because even though Wild Girl and I are not likely to continue more than a FWB after it's done, I don't know for certain what will happen, but I do know there will be lots of Facebook pictures given all of my friends being along. I know we'll get posted and tagged even if I don't do it. And how would I explain Wild Girl to the Swedish Goddess? I think what I'll do is play it by ear. My thought is, after relaying our parents already hang out, that we should just go have some fun together see how it goes - and whatever happens happens. It's just interesting how, the meh feeling I've got with her is often the same meh feeling I get and have gotten with many others. I'll be pushing myself to ask her out - I can feel it. but with little exceptions, that's often the case. Does this all make sense or is this just me being quirky?
Okay, back to Christmas - re-meeting Swedish Goddess four years later really was the highlight. Went for dinner with just my parents this year as things were changed substantially. Then our traditional larger gathering starting in the afternoon on Christmas Day and going into the evening turned into a 10:30 "brunch" and everyone had to leave by 1:30. It didn't even feel like Christmas. One of my nieces is headed to New York City for a bowl game (she's in the marching band) and the other had to return a state away for two days of work - together and Thursday. So this forced the change.
Add to that, my mom is really showing her age. She will be 81 in a few weeks. Thankfully my dad is doing beyond great and is able to take care of her, but she is just barely able to get around and now we are seeing dementia signs just starting. I've noticed it a bit before but never really keyed in on it. I'm really seeing it now. She seems to have gone from a senior - to a really old gramma very quickly.
So I was back home by 2 PM on Christmas Day - about the time I'd be getting ready to leave. It's not like I didn't know although even what I did know kept getting pushed up. It was first going to be a noon start so they could be gone by 4 or 5. That later morphed into 10:30 AM and gone by 1:30. It made me think, what will it be like when my parents are gone? I will confess I was not hugely a big Christmas guy before either but now when I look back and the kids waking me up early Christmas morning and going to my Ex W's family and having people over and a Christmas tree, etc. it's like where did that life go? I'm so thankful I had it but now it's no longer here. Life keeps going so so so fast. While I'm still about 30 in my head and often act it (as some of you here well know) everything happening around me tells me life is going quickly and I'm not 30, I really am 55.
Oh and I think I've mentioned here how I've had several friends with lung cancer - a good friend died of it nearly a year ago after only 10 weeks. I was thinking of another long time friend, never smoked a single anything who had stage 4. I last saw her in October and she was still doing okay. I was thinking how now coming up on entering her 3rd year she really had beat the odds. I received word she died this morning. Wonderful, very fun lady, a couple years older than me. We met when I was 15 I think. Beautiful woman - very married. Sometimes life really is not fair.
Good Lord, now I'm depressing myself. LOL. Thankfully things will get busier for me now. Two gigs this weekend and then two gigs on NYE - one in the afternoon and one at night. Just found out our flights got changed for the cruise - as often happens. Same departure time just didn't connection city. It said 23 days until departure. Wow, 23 days until the cruise and whatever all that brings to my life. And no, I did not hear from Wild Girl over the holidays.
Whoops... "Very married" should have been NEVER married.
Sorry about the loss of your friend, Don.
I'm going to Vegas for a couple of days with CMM, just to get away - there's a real feeling of our time together is limited, we should go while he still can.
You said Wild Girl didn't contact you over Xmas, did you contact her?
as for Swedish Goddess - I'd just keep in casual contact but be "too busy" to go on a date until after the cruise.
And I hear you on the Xmas stuff - I'm lucky in that since the divorce my ex and I just alternate Xmas eve versus Xmas day with the kids, but it's still disconcerting sometimes.
Here's to a fun cruise and maybe something with Swedish Goddess after you return.
Merry Christmas Don!
I have this strong suspicion once this cruise is over and done with a weight will feel like it's off of you and you will feel free to just be again. I feel like this cruise and WG has taken over most of your year and all of your decisions have been made around it. Once that is gone, you are free to date who you want, when you want and not have to worry about keeping some sort of contact with WG, who has clearly gone super flaky.
I also think it might be wise for you to really recognize exactly what it is that you want (that is also obtainable and comes with some sacrifice) I think you want a real R. And for some reason you feel like there is shame in that. You want someone to think about you often, spend time with you, not have to chase them. A committed R where you guys have a good time, travel, go out, enjoy some good times. It's a totally cool and normal thing. It doesn't make you needy, it's the desire of most people.
Don,
Just think, we could've been cabin-mates. It would be like a long-long slumber party with just the two of us. We could've had matching thongs and gone shopping and all of that, but no...
See there, you're already feeling better. Happy New Year. And ummm...maybe next cruise?
Well if this is how the new year is going to go, I just want to go back to bed and sleep through it. Not at all totally surprising as I had a strong suspicion - well for a couple months but only to this level for a couple of days. It was only about 15 hours into the new year that Wild Girl put up a post on Facebook that she is in a relationship - followed by a photo of her kissing the guy. Facebook - I found out on Facebook. This after I spoke to her a few days after Christmas as she said nothing about it. We were talking about luggage for the cruise a little over two weeks ago. Who in the h3ll does this?
I have such a strong sense about things happening in life - I knew something like this was going to happen - I just knew it - although even I didn't think she would wait until the last minute like this. I thought everything was in the clear just two weeks out. She was literally supposed to be at my house two weeks from tomorrow night. What really kills me is why she didn't say anything to me - and I have to read it on flipping Facebook? It's like she was not going to go so let's make it so Don can't take anyone else either! I at least would have had a chance a month or two ago. It's not like we've not talked at least weekly. And this is the commitment-phobic woman with her walls up - posting shes in a relationship on facebook? Wow she must have really "fallin in love."
So I of course called - no answer, followed by my sending a text which at this minute she has not responded to. How can I ever trust anyone? Is the decency of everyone gone out the window? I mean, this is not a break up in the true sense of the word but my Lord we were intimate dozens of times, went out dozens of times, spent the summer doing things together, talked on the phone I'll bet 40 hours. I've heard of people breaking up through text message and I think that is crappy - but through a post on Facebook? Wow, this is a new low - at least to happen to me. I clearly overlooked her lack of character by a factor of 20.
Now, I do get it - she's a coward. She knows she has zero defense and what she has done is inexcusable. So rather than face me, she runs and hides. I'd say it's 50/50 she will respond to me. If she does she will wait a day or more. I know I will likely see her parents and aunt before too long and I will nicely, professionally, let them know the truth as I strongly suspected she told them she had talked with me and everything was taken care of. I know they are not the type of people that could condone her behavior - accepting an offer for a $1,700 vacation, pretending like you are going until two weeks before and then backing out without even as much as a text message. Why string it along this long? How would she have liked it if I told her now, sorry I met someone else so you're really not going on a cruise in two weeks. I could never think of doing that to someone. How can people treat others like this? COWARDS!!!!!
So it's bad enough I now have no date for the cruise - on top of it, there is a plane ticket, I had to pay the gratuity ahead of time due to the package - so I'm out that money as well. She knows all of this as I kept her in the loop. She even joked about not being able to take a bag for her shoes because we have to pay $25 per bag on the airline. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'm very afraid they will ask me to pay for the $379 plane ticket that was wasted - or say next time (if there is a next time) flight is not included for me. Or they could well say, Donh is unreliable so let's not have that band back. Again, trust my intuition here - coupled with how I know these people. So I'm not sure if I should or will tell them or not. I'm looking at a few options for a replacement but I have no idea how much that will even cost. Airlines are very solid about not changing names last minute because they see it as a way around the high rates that happen last minute. They think the first name was just a placeholder to avoid a $900 last minute ticket.
And while I'm more mad than anything at this point, that's now, I'll feel like a total loser in a few weeks when 7 of us get on the plane and 9 or 11 or 13 of us are together and I'm sitting next to an empty seat on the plane, at dinner, etc. I can't even get a girl to go on a free vacation with me. How does that old joke go - couldn't get laid in a hore house? Yes, yes, yes, I know, it's not like that but let's not forget the worst vacation of my life was 10 years ago now when I had to go on a cruise by myself. I hated it. I vowed I'd never do it again - and I haven't. I have been so looking forward to this - pretty much all year. And now if I could get out of it - I would, in a heartbeat. Time will tell but watch this new R fizzle out as fast as it flamed up and she could have gone on a free vacation on top of it. Will serve her right - but we all know it never happens that way.
Enough for now. Happy New Year. It's 2019 great so far?
Dang Don... that svcks. I’m sorry to hear... hang in there!
I am so sorry to read what this girl has done. She is definitely not only a coward, but a user. FB is not a way to tell someone that they are in a relationship w/someone. She should have called/texted you early on and advised you that her plans had changed.
Do you have any friends or family members that pick up her portion of the tickets so that you aren't out of pocket for all of it? I know that this idea isn't ideal for you, but at least you wouldn't be totally out of pocket for everything. If you go on the cruise, you might meet someone really nice who is traveling solo as well. Sometimes things happen for a reason and we do not know what they are until much later.
I do hope you can find someone to help you out on short notice. I really could just smack that woman for what she's done.
I am truly sorry. Not a good way to start the new year...but I'm still wishing you Happy New Year because you can't allow one blip to mar the rest of the new year.
I'm so sorry, Don. That totally [censored] to find out on FB. I found out my XH's "new" relationship with the woman he'd cheated with on FB, so I know first-hand how deeply hurtful that can really be. I hope that the new year offers you much better moving forward.
Now, having said all that, I want to ask a somewhat odd question. You said that you spoke to her a few days after Christmas and y'all were talking about luggage. Is there an off chance that she might still be planning to go, explaining to this "new relationship" guy that this is something that had been planned and paid for in advance and she was just going as your friend? I mean, yeah, I know it sounds crazy, but given some of the descriptions of her that you gave, it seems like a bit of a possibility, in my mind. Of course, it would make me wonder just how serious this relationship truly is if she went that route and if he was ok with it.
Whatever is going on, what she did was just wrong and I totally agree with job that she is not only a coward, but a user. You just do NOT do that to someone. You act as an adult and you have a real, honest conversation with someone. I am truly sorry, Don...no one deserves that.
Don,
Sorry man that's a tough break. I agree though with Dawn, maybe she still plans on going. Also, just out of curiosity, when is the last time you did something together?
Don, i'm really sorry that things played out like they did. I have to admit that my first thought after reading it was did she ever say she wasn't going on the cruise (similar to Dawn's post), maybe in her mind it would be perfectly fine to go on a cruise with someone you recently were intimate with whilst having a new boyfriend. Then again, maybe she just figures she will be breaking up with him before it's time for the cruise. Anyway, she definitely did you wrong for no apparent reason, I was hoping things would work out better for you.
I've been holding off with an update until I had something more significant to report. I wish that was now, but... not yet.
Could those of you who think she's still planning to go be correct? Yes, I guess you could. My gut tells me that's not the case but even to this minute she has not yet officially cancelled! Of course the games - funny I don't think she even knows or thinks she's playing games - continue.
I was promised a telephone call on Wednesday after work. I received a text in the afternoon saying she now had to close and after the holidays she knew she should not get home until nearly 10 PM. I believe this is true given the past. So then it was "I'll call you for sure tonight" that was last night - Thursday night. At about 9:30 I got a text saying "The girls are talking my ear off, as soon as they go to bed I'll call." At 11:15 PM I sent a text "are the girls still up?" At 4:12 AM (Awe is all this keeping you from sleeping?) I got the response "yes the girls were still up and I was really tired." So tired she was up at 4 in the morning! I sent back at like 7:30 AM "I'm sure this is difficult. I'm not looking for an hours-long conversation or confrontation - just a few minutes of your time." She immediately texted back "No, no it's not that at all. I'll call you tonight when I get home. The girls won't be home tonight."
I totally understand her not wanting to talk about this in front of her daughters - nor should she. And right or wrong on my part, I'm so over her the person at this point that it really doesn't matter about whatever "relationship" we had. She's proved she is who I pretty much thought all along. For me now it's about not letting her get away with this scott free. It's almost like how I'd hold an employee accountable. And I am very good at this. A female friend said I'm like leading the lamb to the slaughter. While I won't slaughter her I will tactfully, professionally, and very clearly let her know what an immature BS move all of this has been and how much growing up she has to do. We are not in high school here. At 55 I don't expect to have to deal with crap like this from people. If she tries to play it off as "Oh it's no big deal, I have no problem coming to you and talking" well then why the h@ll did you not tell me this a month or two ago?
The real sad part here is I had very fond memories of this past summer with her. Those too now are beyond tarnished and I'm disgusted I showed her the good time that I did. Had she come to me a month or two ago - I obviously would have been sad, upset and disappointed. But at least then I could have had a chance to find someone else to go - including pursuing one of the other two I've casually dated since then. There were other missed opportunities along the way but in fairness they were closer to 3 months ago.
It's bad enough she would not be going - but why can't I take someone else rather than go alone? Why punish me TWICE? But to "pretend" she is still going - for sure three weeks ago and at least somewhat a week ago.. That is crazy. Unless.... I'm totally under-estimating her yet again and she will tell me tonight - "of course I'm still going, why wouldn't I"? Please understand - this will be the most shocking yet. I don't at all expect it and not sure how I'd even respond if it does happen. Right now I'd say no way, but who knows what she has to say.
Why I do not think she is going is because never in her life has she gone public with a guy - never. Not just me but even the last guy she dated for 2 years was kept quiet publicly. She put up a photo kissing this guy at Christmas. I saw a photo of him and her daughters and he looks so young i honestly thought it was a cousin in his 20s. I've yet to find out how old he is but guessing 10 years younger than her which would be 23 years younger than me. This part just becomes people watching for me at this point.
I'm hopeful we'll have a conversation and once we do I'll report back. I'm scampering to find a replacement but I don't think that is going to happen. Two weeks from right now I'll be in Miami. This is laced with issues that could blow up three different ways but I'll explain that later when I know rather than speculate. For those who don't understand - this cruise, flight and pre-night hotel, was paid for by someone else. I was hired to play with two bands on this cruise in exchange for them buying my and a guest a free cruise and two plane tickets to Miami. So while I am not out money (at least yet) - someone is - and it's not impossible they could come to me and say "we want our $379 back for the flight - pay up."
DH - IMO I do think she is going to go and has been hoping you would forget all about it as it appears she is trying to avoid you. I would guess if she was still wanting to go she would have been contacting you all the time to make sure she was still slotted in. Maybe even talking to you about how excited she was, what she was going to bring to wear, asking you questions about the trip, etc.
DH - IMO I do think she is going to go
Ummmmmmmmmm Is this really what you intended to post? If so, the rest doesn't make a lot of sense.
DH - IMO I do think she is going to go
Ummmmmmmmmm Is this really what you intended to post? If so, the rest doesn't make a lot of sense. Otherwise I tend to agree she'd be talking about the excitement and details - like she was three weeks ago. The thing that still gives me pause, however, is she may be thinking I won't allow her to go if we go just as friends so she's trying to keep the boyfriend AND keep the cruise.
I still don't think so, but better at least consider it as I may have to make that decision then. No matter how you slice it, this will not be the cruise I've been so looking forward to for six months. That will not be happening. And I'll have to deal with that soon enough. For now I've got to deal with all of the rest. Talk about mixing business with pleasure. Then again, the nature of my business is always mixing business with pleasure.
I'll say it again, THANK GOD I don't "get" to take a guest to Europe with me!!!!!!! Especially since we will perform in Amsterdam on the route LOL
Would you even want to go on a cruise with her at this point? It would be uncomfortable and worth the money to not have to share a small space for an entire week with someone you are no longer with in this situation. Personally, i would love the alone time being in the warm caribbean, turquoise waters, with some books and a pina colada. Plenty of singles go on cruises so you will have the opportunity to socialize when you want to and retret back to the confort of a nice room.
I get the professional awkwardness of the situation. But this was out of your control. These things do happen. Its like getting sick on a mandated work during a holiday. You worry that people are gonna think your just calling in, even when your not..but multiply the expense factor. You will get through this. It was out of your control, so no use getting anxious about it.
Your employer will get over it as well. I am sure they have had to deal with much much worse from other employees.
Could you ackowledge the situation and make a good faith effort and offer to work a bit extra? Even if they dont accept it, it looks good. Most people can sympathize with situations like this when you show that you will attempt to make it up to them in another way. They know that you are not trying to get one by, this way.
Planning a distant trip is a big committment. I think wild girl meant it at the time. But it was just too far in the future for her or you to predict your relationship. I think she was hoping you would get the hint so she would not have to confront or be direct. . She evaded which was really irresponsible and immature. She does not want to go. It takes away time from her family and current love interest. She might go to avoid being a bad guy, but would u really want to share a room with someone under these circumstances?
Well I have the update and clearly some of you here are way smarter than I or Joseph are. Like I said, it's often harder to tell when you are in it. After no phone call or failed to make the calls for two days, my phone rang minutes after she said she'd call. She was very calm and friendly and I tried to be as nice as possible.
After pleasantries I asked her to catch me up because I'm obviously out of the loop. We proceeded into nearly a half hour conversation about members of her family, her friends. We talked about me, my family, etc. I finally said, and let's talk about you, there are obviously some developments there. Turns out it is the guy whom I thought it was who left his GF of 15 years two months ago. Can you say red flag for her? Of course he's everything she's been looking for. He's 41 (remember she's 42) blah, blah, blah. She kept saying she is sorry as in for me and any interest I have or had in her. I then said, look, I totally can understand that but I'm in big trouble now with this cruise. Big pause and stutter, "okay, why would you be in trouble?" to which I respond how everything is paid, we can't transfer the flights, etc. and then, yep, here it came "Oh I'm still going, unless you don't want me to" I was shocked. "I'm off of work, I've got everything I need, I only work on Thursday until noon. I've told him about it and about you and he's a bit p!ssed at me but I told him there is no way I'd back out on you" and went on to say how she has always had guy friends, etc. WTF???? I mean What in the frick!!!!!!
I then said, "does he know we've slept together?" Of course, she's left that piece out. Whatever, that's on her. I said it didn't even sound like you were looking forward to it. Of course I am she says - as if I'm the one out in left field here. I told her, what would you have thought if I put up a post on FB about having a new GF and a photo of her. Would you not think, well I guess I'm not going on a cruise anymore?" She claims she never stopped to think about any of it. The thing is, she was so matter of fact and straight to the point and so calm with all of it, I tend to believe her. Evidently it was the new BF who insisted that post go up - because of the cruise and her going with me - so she did it to make him feel better.
Oddly enough, I feel fine about it all - mostly because it restores a little bit of faith in human nature in general and Wild Girl in particular. It also removes the tarnish from the past. As I have said all along, I never considered us a long term thing. Just never did. So that part is really not an issue. I won't have to worry about everything that goes along with her backing out - including the finances. I"m sure we'll still have a great time. So the only thing that will change is the naked activities at night. Then again, I've been wrong about everything else so...
Wow. I live in a completely different world from so many women. And iam shocked at what guys are ok with.
Now heres the question..joseph went out with someone that had signs of a wayward woman. WG has signs of being an OW which is just as bad. Why are nice guys like the 2 of you still giving these women the time of day? Both of you even admitted they werent physically your type. So its not looks.
I'm just sittin here cracking the last of my Christmas nuts watching the floor show.
Juju - there are variations in guys and attitudes.
Oh! I found a chocolate coin!
Dang it Don!
Maybe you need to meet my ex-sister-in-law - she's single, retired, lives near Miami and seems to always be out and about! (And no, her divorce from my brother was his fault, not hers).
Vacation, sun, alcohol. Hangout, have fun and hook up. It's in the bag DH!
I don't even know where to begin. I guess I began in my private message to you.
I can't stand this woman even more now. She couldn't even tell you personally about her new boyfriend or give you enough time to take a single person with you on the cruise. She is lying to her new boyfriend, sharing a cabin with the guy she was having sex with this summer and pretty much just glad to be getting a free trip without having to face anything she did. She's selfish and nasty. I would want to throw up sharing a cabin on the sea with her for 8 days. I'd tell her ass to stay home with her boyfriend. But that's me I guess.
I am in camp juju here.
And WTF, LH? Hook up and hang out with some dishonest whore who did something really crappy and selfish and has a boyfriend? And this boyfriend has no idea of the truth? He's innocent in this.
I don't get men.
hit reply too soon.
She has restored your faith in her? She is lying to her boyfriend to get a free cruise, couldn't tell you to your face or earlier about her boyfriend and now your faith is restored because she is going with you under a fake guise?
I am sorry Don. You deserve better than this. And if you think this is redeeming, you need to set your standards a little higher. you deserve more respect than this.
But if this makes you happy and allows you to enjoy yourself, so be it. But I would never look her way again after the cruise.
My point is if DH is going to go through with the with the trip it's bound to happen. What happens between two consenting non married adults is their business.
Before we blame everything on WG, Don never answered my question on when is the last time they hung out.
hit reply too soon.
She has restored your faith in her? She is lying to her boyfriend to get a free cruise, couldn't tell you to your face or earlier about her boyfriend and now your faith is restored because she is going with you under a fake guise?
I am sorry Don. You deserve better than this. And if you think this is redeeming, you need to set your standards a little higher. you deserve more respect than this.
But if this makes you happy and allows you to enjoy yourself, so be it. But I would never look her way again after the cruise.
WHAT GINGER SAID!!!!!!!
OMG....seriously?!?!?! Restored your faith in her? Don, come on now, you seem like a confident guy and even said on a post on J9’s thread yesterday that you tell it like it is. To coin yet another phrase my father uses all the time, that doesn’t gee haw for me. I know I just made a long rambling post the other day about forgiveness so this sounds strange coming from me. I’m not advocating that you shouldn’t forgive her at some point but that she called and said she’s still going under totally false pretenses and that restores your faith in her, that leaves me dumbfounded. Like G said, you deserve SO much more.
Like juju, I feel like I live in a completely different world than most woman and what this one did to you is the reason that women all get lumped together and men claim there aren’t any good ones. Ugh!
Ginger, if wild girls new boyfriend broke up with with his long term 14 year relationship 2 months ago, and now declares wild girl his new girlfriend...thats indicative of wild girl having been a OW. Wild girl has also been semii ghosting don for a while now. So time lines dont make her nor her new boyfriend innocent.
And these are the clues no one seems to care about when it comes to women. I have a aquaintance that was keeping a guy on the side while she dated another wealthy one that bought her everything. All while she gives her kids to baby sitters and pretends to be an involved parent. Shes nuts and a really bad person. Yet men go for this. They dont settle down with her though.
Maybe when guys subconsiously dont want a real relationship, they feel like these are better women to date?
Good point, Juju. Neither part is innocent. I don't get it.
LH, if you aren't married, everything is free game? I may not get married again, but if I am in a committed relationship, I don't think everything is free game or morally correct.
Oh, and my exH was my friend's boyfriend. I was 19 and I live with guilt to this day, although 20 years later, me and her are still good friends. It's not something I would ever do again or be able to live with again.
I hooked up a few times with a coworker back in the day. He had this one and off girlfriend I never met. I admit, in the middle of hooking up, I actually stopped and asked if he was still with his girlfriend. He said yes and game was over. It's just something morally I would never want to be in the middle. It's basically messed up my life and other people's lives and it is always best to stay out of other people's relationships. Married or not married.
Oh man if this was me you all would tear me up!
. As the coach says hang out, hook up, and have fun DH.
I think maybe I get where Don is coming from. After all, he never had an exclusive thing with her. If she was seeing other men plural but still wanted to keep their date for this trip that would be ok with him I think.
Now if her new guy really dumped his girlfriend for her but she's not ready to be in an exclusive relationship with him, that's kinda between the two of them. Her not telling him she's slept with Don is pretty sketchy but seriously, what kind of idiot must he be if he doesn't figure it out?
Don I think you've known all along that Wild Girl wasn't a long term choice for you, but that she gave you a taste of the companionship that you crave. Just go enjoy the company and move forward.
Do we know WG and this new guy are in a committed relationship?
Do we know WG and this new guy are in a committed relationship?
Dude... it is FB official... that's like the commitment to the umpteenth level!
Hey look everyone - I've got an active thread - me - I'm popular!!! LMAO. yes that's my sarcastic humor.
Omg so many good points here and I really want to respond to them all but we'll need to piece it in. KML is again understanding. IVE GONE ON DATES TOO!!!! Remember online girl? And Swedish Goddess? So how is it much different? The last time WG and I were together was in October. Sex was early September.
Juju you caught what most others here have missed. This guy is not innocent. I first was told of him by WG Labor Day weekend. Her "buddy" stopped over to vent about his 14 year GF who had recently moved in. It was weeks later that WG started to distance and cool. It was then October or early November when this new guy broke it off with his 14 year GF. It's clear that HE was fooling around on his GF with WG. When he had WG he THEN broke up with GF. I'll stake money in it. He went directly from one to the next. If they do it with you they will do it to you. So neither of them are inicent here and both will likely pay the price in the end when one does the same thing again with someone else. I assure you it won't be me.
I agree with many of the other comments as well. I very clearly misspoke or was not clear when I said she's redeemed herself. She has not. What I'm trying to say is I had the bar set extremely low to start with. Look back at my comments early on as I said she was broken. The last 72 hours she was at rock bottom in my eyes. She's come up a few floors. That's what I should have said.
Finally for now, it's easy to say go alone. Forget everything else about that. Take 15 $100 bills out if your wallet or your bank and light them on fire. I dare you - go ahead. Wait better yet, go to your boss or the cash register and take those 15 bills and light them. That may put this in perspective. Taking or allowing wild girl to go is still better than any alternative I was able to come up with in the last 72 hours. If I had a good alternative I'd take it. The few I even have were only slightly better than nothing and certainly more risky than keeping things the way they have been since late August. So now... Now do you all see why I wanted to wait as long as possible to name someone? Those of youbshonsaid do it sooner than later - do you get it now?
I'll hit the other items soon.
Oddly enough, I feel fine about it all - mostly because it restores a little bit of faith in human nature in general and Wild Girl in particular.
Oh, wait a minute... I did say it pretty clearly. Even though I clarified above I did say "restores a little bit of faith" - which is what I meant - further clarified above by saying my faith was at Rock bottom and now has come up a few floors.
Misquoted again.
I’ll admit I was one of the ones who advocated for asking WG early on. I “got it” then and I still get it now because I’m not an idiot. With all due respect, though, Don, you were under a deadline to ask someone and at the time she was your best option based on your own postings of what was happening. Sure, y’all weren’t exclusive, you saw others, she saw others, but when push came to shove and it got to the time you had to name names, who else could you have named? You, understandably had quite the dilemma, not wanting to go alone, yet not wanting to choose someone too early and risk facing the repercussions of that person backing out for whatever reason. Hindsight is 20/20, my friend. It’s easy for all of us to say things in giving advice and all of that but I don’t think anyone, yourself included, could’ve predicted how this whole thing shook out. You were having fun, she was a good option at the time and you made a decision.
I get what LH and J9 are saying about go, hook up, have fun, as they have been saying that all along. I also get what you’re saying about “letting” her go is really your best option. I am pretty sure I’m still in the same camp with Ginger and juju about wondering how fun it can really be at this point, knowing all you know. Granted, you are a single man and maybe she considers herself single too, but it doesn’t really seem as though her new man sees himself as single. You have to do what works best for you and you’ve been dealt a pretty sh!tty hand of cards with this one, but I hope, however it works out, that you come away with some peace and you find a way to enjoy the trip.
Wow Dawn, you're the educator but I'd give you an "A" for that "paper". All pretty much spot on. Thing is, I feared something like this all along. Then, when we hit December, she had her renewed passport, we had luggage tags and boarding passes from the cruise line, I thought it was all in the bag and I was home free. I always wished I could wait until September or even October 15 to give them a name but they were up my arse June 8th when I saw one of the higher ups. I'm lucky I made it to the third week of August. We had plane tickets 5 days later. Had i been given until October I wonder if wild girl would have even accepted?
Which brings up yet another point. A few hours after I asked wild girl to go and she hesitated then accepted, we were out on my deck talking. She asked "what happens if either of us meets someone?" I assumed it was more a question of what if I met someone - would I replace her? My answer was that she's going. I'm not going to replace her. I know how slow I move and not looking for a big R anyhow I was confident in my answer. I asked her what about you. She said she would feel terrible if she left me hanging or backed out - "very, very terrible, I hate to disappoint people." So we both pretty much agreed neither would do that. It was among the things I was going to bring up to her last night. She beat me to it. It very likely is shellfish on her part - she wants to go on a free cruise! But in the end it appears we both kept our word. I assumed otherwise but it looks like my mind reading was wrong.
I wish none of this happened. It won't be like I was hoping back in summer. I have zero doubt if it was not for the cruise I'd never hang out or date or whatever her again. But for the cruise... I'm sure that's what will happen after we get back. Keep in mind I know and will still see her parents and aunt. I'm sure I'll be friendly like I am with other "exes" but that's all.
I knew what I was dealing with early on - or at least suspected it. As KML confirmed, I was never seeing her as a LTR or girlfriend. It always was what it was. Just because I'm not going to marry her does not mean I can't have fun with her and she's A LOT of fun! People love her. She's knows the bands and the music. And the "benefits" were top level. She clearly didn't use me for $$$ nearly always insisting to pay. In fact when I started to tell her why this was such a problem (before she stopped me) I included how I already had to prepay both of our gratuities - one if the few things not covered and she's already insisting on covering any and all of my expenses. Not sure I'll accept but $$$ is not the issue for her. Losing a cruise may well be but not paying her way and mine. She has some redeeming qualities, she's just broken... Badly broken.
Well maybe your charity deed on this trip will be to point out to her that if this guy will cheat with her he'll cheat on her. She'll deny it but the seed will be planted in her brain, might save her some grief after.
I've kept moderately quiet on this but thought I'd just toss out my opinion.
Yes - there are consequences to your not having a companion on the cruise. Is that a reason to take someone else's girlfriend? Not my call.
I know that here there have been discussions including myself on multi-dating and there are diverse opinions on that. My current opinion is no.
Also, Dawn and I are very much in the "old fashioned" camp where both she and I are uncomfortable with in my own situation of me dating someone who doesn't openly acknowledge me / isn't divorced. So I'm perhaps the Ashley Wilkes here (google may be your friend).
From where I sit - you are OM. If you and WG are happy with that, that's "fine". Is her boyfriend? Personally I can't see myself having intimacy with anyone who I'm not in a committed relationship with. And yes - I'm an old fart despite being a year younger than you.
But our paths have been very different. I got married as a young man - forever I presumed - and spent more than half my life in that paradigm. You got married later, for a shorter period of time and have been single for quite some time. I try not to apply my morals to others.
For me - I would not be dating someone else's girlfriend. Not that they are "property" but because there are norms in our society that I respect.
I'll set down my wiffle bat now.
Well maybe your charity deed on this trip will be to point out to her that if this guy will cheat with her he'll cheat on her.
Already done as we spoke about him and this on the phone. It may sound odd based on how she has been portrayed by me here but she is rather open about most things. She was pretty open about him and it sounded like some of the stories on here. Remember he is getting out of a 14 year LTR for which they just recently started living together. I have no idea where his head is at but this screams of rebound. His recent live-in GF may come back. He may decide it's all been too fast. Who knows? I encouraged her to slow down and keep her eyes open - which I guess if she's going on a cruise with me, that's keeping the brakes on in some respect LOL. I'm sure her and I will talk about it in a few weeks.
Yes - there are consequences to your not having a companion on the cruise. Is that a reason to take someone else's girlfriend?
Well I think that's a bit melodramatic and out of context. You make it sound like I pursued a woman who had been dating a guy seriously for two years and was in a LTR with him and tried to steal her away, when in fact, she was committed to go on this cruise months before they even got together. Their budding R still very, very new. Then again as I've said rationalization is the second strongest human drive so I may be rationalizing this to make it sound better and make myself feel better.
I know that here there have been discussions including myself on multi-dating and there are diverse opinions on that. My current opinion is no.
I think this is something each person has to decide on their own. I'm mostly concerned that everyone knows what's going on so they make an informed decision. Some people can't date more than one person at a time. Some have never had the opportunity to so they have never had the chance. For me, as long as everyone knows I think it's very healthy - especially early on. Dawn dated two guys at once. They both were aware of it. She then got more serious with one. Sleeping with both - yeah that is another notch up the ladder for sure. In my and Wild Girl's case we each knew the other was or could date others. I told Online girl about Wild Girl (in general terms) and told Wild Girl about Online Girl. No one is sneaking around. If any party is not comfortable, they are free to exit the situation. As for me, I've dated three women since this started but have been intimate with only one.
Also, Dawn and I are very much in the "old fashioned" camp where both she and I are uncomfortable with in my own situation of me dating someone who doesn't openly acknowledge me / isn't divorced.
This is much like dating more than one person at a time. I think it's up to each individual to decide. That said, I know I and others have stated that based on what you've told us, we don't believe you have really dated CL. I know you believe you have but let me give you a comparison. Last month I met a very nice lady my exact age for lunch. We met at the restaurant and hugged when we greeted each other. We talked for several hours with her grabbing my hand, arm, etc. to make a point. We laughed and had a great time. When we left there was another warm hug and a small kiss on the lips. THIS WAS NOT A DATE - because she is married. I've known her and her husband for over 25 years and she kisses me and acts like that with me right in front of him. He was thrilled I was willing to go to a "fu fu" restaurant he refuses to visit and even thanked me the next time the three of us were together. Also not long ago I picked a woman up and took her to dinner. We were together for three hours in much the same manner. She is married as well and once again I know her husband. I think the kiss was on the cheek, I really don't remember. Based on you and CL - I'm dating these women, which is clearly not the case. But again, it's not up to me to decide. You think, feel and believe you have dated CL so that's what is important and I will go by that - you have dated CL.
For me - I would not be dating someone else's girlfriend. Not that they are "property" but because there are norms in our society that I respect.
I'm confused as to how you would not date someone else's girlfriend but you will date someone else's wife? CL is still married - correct? She is currently someone else's wife. I would say norms of society would frown on that much more than a brand new boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, but again it's how everyone views it and like I've said, rationalization is such a strong drive.
In the end, I'm totally fine with what I'm doing. If I had pushed, coursed, or even gently nudged Wild Girl to still go, I might feel a bit worse. This was 100% her decision. We are not sneaking around or hiding anything. I'm sure she will post pictures on FB that the new guy will see. That is all between her and him - not me. Just as I was not an other man taking my friends wife to lunch/dinner in that their husbands were very well aware of it, it's the same here - unless more happens. I'm not planning on that but I'd also be lying if I said there was no possibility it could happen over 10 days with lots of alcohol in a semi-romantic setting like this. I'm not going to pursue anything, however, but I see them at least similar. Clearly, having lunch or dinner is worlds apart from an 8 day vacation and sleeping in close quarters - no doubt about it. Oh, and I should also add, I also had actually dated both of those woman much earlier in life. The dinner lady I think was 17 when we "dated" and we've been friends ever since. The lunch lady my age I was intimate with before she was married and her and I too are very good friends to this day. I've not crossed any lines with either of them - ever.
So, right or wrong, I'm totally good with it from a morality standpoint - again as long as everyone knows and agrees as consenting adults. As for how I feel about Wild Girl, that's still a work in progress. My focus was so exclusively on how I assumed she backed out without telling me and all of the ramifications of the "free" cruise and flights going up in smoke and what I might have to endure that I'm only now focusing on how I feel about her. Without a doubt the shine is really gone. I'll make the best of it but it's clearly not going to go like I was hoping 3 or 4 months ago. I'm sure I'll put more words to that as I work through it this week. Like most things in life, I'm learning a lot.
For me - I would not be dating someone else's girlfriend. Not that they are "property" but because there are norms in our society that I respect.
Upper cut by Andrew!
I'm confused as to how you would not date someone else's girlfriend but you will date someone else's wife? CL is still married - correct? She is currently someone else's wife. I would say norms of society would frown on that much more than a brand new boyfriend/girlfriend relationship
DH side steps the uppercut and throws a haymaker. Down goes Andrew! Down goes Andrew!
LOL........J9 sitting on the side eating his bowl of popcorn for a change
Well I guess my "15 minutes of fame" is over.
I did get a good laugh out of Joseph's comment and still laugh at LH19's every time I read it. I most certainly was not looking to knock anyone out - I just call them as I see them and try to hold everyone, including myself accountable to the truth. It's so amazing how most all of us are able to see other people sitch's so much clearer than our own and tend to rationalize that what we are doing is different than someone else. I guess what LH19 pulled out to highlight was a perfect example of that.
As for me, I feel like I'm back to my, "don't really care, whatever," baseline. Parts of that are good - but I guess the underlying is not the best. I was mainly so focused on the fact that I first thought that someone I had at least some level of trust for would bail on me and not even have the guts to tell me, which then broadened to me feeling like you just can't trust anyone - coupled with the fallout on so many levels... Now that all of that is not the case - and evidently never was - I'm back to facing next week.
Part of me is relieved as there is absolutely zero pressure on me now. That's how it should have been all along, and as much as I would have tried to play it that way, I know there would have been some level of pressure to enjoy my week long "date," and make sure she did too. Now I just can enjoy my week long cruise and Wild Girl is responsible for her own happiness - which is how it should have been all along. But let's be honest, things are different when you are on a date with someone versus like when I took my female friends to lunch or dinner. Part of me is really relieved and happy about it. Another part is disappointed it won't be the vacation I was thinking it would be 4 months ago.
Oddly enough, it's probably the best of both worlds and clearly what I said I wanted when this all started about 11 months ago. I mean, take out all of the hiccups and speed bumps on the way to get here, I'm getting pretty much exactly what I said I wanted all along - just perhaps without the benefits piece. And sadly, that's sort of what I'm back wanting again - talking about life in general here, not just the cruise.
I feel like I'm back to keeping it all at arms length and "safe". At least right now it is. Having "more" might be nice but dang it just doesn't seem worth all of the added angst. I'm clearly looking for a needle in a haystack in the type of woman I'm looking for. I don't doubt there are a few like her out there - but it really is like looking for a zebra in the horse field. I'm really back to not caring again. I can't even bring myself to reach out to online girl or Swedish Goddess. The last contact with each was about a week ago - and no I've not heard from them either so there is that. I"m not sad, I'm not mad, I'm not upset in the least. I'm pretty indifferent other than seeing the past summer with a laser focus for what it was.
I'll be coming up on 14 years since bomb drop this summer. Wow - 14 years! It really probably is time to just accept that what I've had these past years is going to be my life. It just is. Of everyone that was here with me 14 years ago, I don't think anyone would have predicted I'd go 14 years without truly falling in love. I on the other hand did. Perhaps it's self-fulfilling.
On a plus side, my Europe trip is now confirmed. I'll be flying over there in April. As I said - I do not get to - read that as HAVE TO - find a guest to go - it's just me (well and a dozen others). One of the cruise candidates invited me to visit her out west. If it happens at all, that would likely be a Fall trip as Phoenix in the summer.... yeah I don't think so. And the daughter of the lady who hired us for an NYE afternoon event invited me to come ride horses with her. I've not done that in forever and am really excited. Neither woman would qualify as my needle in a haystack girl but both will be fun GAL activities that also might turn into FWB activities. That just seems to be where I am. Neither has dated much if at all in the past three years - in fact I've dated way more than either of them.
And if I sound down or depressed, I've got an infection going on from a tooth that started to abscess. At least I caught it quickly but it's really got me run down and I'm sure that's transferring to my mood. Hey, better this week than next. 9 more days until Wild Girl arrives and vacation begins. I know this will still be a lot of fun - perhaps even more fun than I ever thought. I just know it will be different than I was thinking it would be.
You don't sound depressed. Your GAL sounds like lots of fun. Lots of travel! Awesome year coming your way. Sorry about the tooth infection. I have given birth, and I think that pain is worse.
I happen to be super jealous of the fact you will be in the carribean with palm trees, ocean and warmth.
Don,
You have complained about the censorship of postings quite a few times in the last year not only on your threads, but others. If you are not happy with the "self-empowered no real standard make it up as we go, censorship" then I suggest that you contact the administrators and complain. We hear this language on TV, radio and movies, etc., every day, but that doesn't mean it is acceptable to everyone who comes to the Board or hears it in real life.
As a reminder, here is what is posted in the Board Polices:
"The forum Administrators and Moderators have the right to edit, move, censor, delete or otherwise modify any posted message."
We also have the right to request that someone be banned from the Board.
If the forum had more moderators, there would be more editing. When you only have a couple who are volunteering their time to assist the administrators, then there are going to be times when we miss something. We make every attempt to keep the forums clean and respectful for all posters from all walks of life.
I just wanted to leave a quick post before heading out on what a good female friend of mine has been calling Cruisegate 2019. Ba ha ha ha. I'm clearly not as excited as I hoped I would be. This is not how I thought this was going to go. Thankfully there are so many other people going and that will make it easier. I no longer have any pressure whatsoever to impress Wild Girl so I'll just 100% be being me - which is how it should be anyhow but we all know it's a bit different when you have some skin in the game.
WG's new BF called me last night. I will give him this - he has guts. I could tell he was very, very nervous, stuttering, not sure what to say so I took it very easy on him. I don't know if he is this naive, doesn't want to know the truth or is just so head over heels that he's accepting it all - reluctantly. "She's been keeping me in the dark" he said. LOL, Yeah, i'll be you she has. He didn't ask about us, our past, etc. My plan was to simply tell him, "I think you need to talk to Wild Girl about that" but since he didn't ask... He did ask about "the sleeping arrangements." For that I just responded "Have you ever been on a cruise - it's pretty cramped quarters." He asked if I'll be a gentleman. How do I even answer that? Again, had he been a jerk or disrespectful I would have had many answers but he is so stressed I just said, "Look, don't stress all week and make yourself sick. She will come back home and your life will go on." For the first time I really felt the age difference - me being 55, WG 42 and New BF 41. I almost felt like a father giving advice. LOL. He's never married from what I can tell and fresh out of a 15 year R. Clearly it's a rebound R that I'm thinking started as an EA of not PA. Good luck with that you two!
How did I get myself into this? Thing is, I could totally see it with a long time friend - totally. Just not with someone I was naked with four months ago. If he knew that, he'd freak I'm sure but again, how naive can he be? Not my problem.
I hope it's a great time. I won't even speculate. Part of me wishes I was going alone but another part knows that would not have been fun either. So all I can do is make the best of it. I guess one saving grace is I don't have any regret or longing or attraction. I see WG and all of this for what it is. Sadly, it doesn't at all help my overall outlook going forward. I was looking at the FB page of someone I've done some addiction things with. She's a nurse, recently divorced and all I see is Housewives of Orange County. She's dating this guy 10 years old than her that totally looks like Brooks. Her friends were all out for NYE - most look single, all in their 50s and I'm like, uggggg, disgusting. It's just not the life I ever saw myself leading. One couple going with us just had their 5th grandchild yesterday. They are married 36 years. That's how it's SUPPOSED TO BE. Saw my brother and SIL and nieces for my mom's birthday last night. They are married 27 years. That's how it's supposed to go. I'm just so turned off by this dating and making out in parking lots - in our 40s and 50s? Really? I just can't help but see WAW and WW everywhere I look. Just sad and takes me back to when I was 20 and happened across that "Middle age pickup joint" I talked about a few weeks ago. And they are sooooo desperate to find SOMEONE - ANYONE. It's such a huge turn off to me.
So you can see where my mind is. Like I said, I'm hoping I'll snap out of it. It is what it is and I can't do anything about it. Had I had it to do over again I would have nipped this in the bud back in September. Then again, I really didn't have a solid Plan B person so I have no doubt that is partly why I didn't. And for all I know, we'll have a great, great time and it will all work out. She can be my wing woman LOL.
Anyhow, hoping for great weather and lots of fun - regardless of what happens. And I'll give you all a report on Cruisegate 2019 when I return!
Well that's an interesting phone call, I'm not sure how I would have handled it, but I'm guessing not as nicely as you did.. I am pretty surprised that WG gave him your phone number, especially without asking you if it was ok first.. I can't tell if she is so free spirited that she doesn't see where his concerns are coming from, or if she just isn't as into him as he is her, so she treats their R as just casually dating.. it's all very odd.
As for the cruise, I think you'll have a much better time with her there than alone. I'm sure you all will set up a couple of group (band) meals, but it's no fun always being alone on a cruise ship outside of those times... You don't need to have sex to have fun on a cruise, there are so many activities, shows, places to explore, it's all better when you have someone with you..
Have fun Don, eagerly awaiting the debrief on the cruise..
ps - I agree with the wing woman comment, I'm guessing she would be a good one.
Wishing you a fun and enjoyable cruise. Hopefully the weather will be great.
Wow. Phone calls from boyfriends. That is just the kind of drama I would want to avoid - at any point of my life. But thats more typical of high school/college stuff. He was out of line to call and make this about you. But you handled it well.
I agree with what your saying. I always wanted a family lifestyle. Like how i grew up. (Although in my sitch, i sm living EXACTLY how i grew up - but you know what i mean). Dating, boy friends at this age does not appeal to me. Stability, partnership, children do. And I am so dissapointed i ended up here as well. Its hard to believe that people elect to have a that lifestyle.
When you talk about those house wives - i envision women done up like teenagers with weird squinty eyes from face lifts. Men go for this! (I think it looks awful. I like natural)
Maybe all this waywardness is just people fighting aging and the natural order of things.
Hope you have a great time on your trip. Cant wait to hear updates.
Hope you're having a good time - or at least an adventure (or misadventure) that you can laugh about with friends in the future.
Greetings rom Porto Rico - about to pull into port. Wild girl is in The shower. Quick update - it’s going better than expected. Either my mind reading was WAY too much into all of this - or she’s feeding be a line to save face. She thought I was no longer interested, is shocked that I was upset or even cared to the point she started tearing up and pufuesely apologizing. Took three days and her talking to my friend but it all finally came out. I’ll give the whole story. It’s why communication is so important.
So I’m very glad she came and unbelievably glad I didn’t have to go alone. We are not purposely trying to spend alone time but it happens a lot by itself. Everyone is getting ready for port. I’d have been alone all day today so far. I don’t see this taking off again but BF had a reason to worry - I’m just going to say. He’s also doing all the wrong things - putting huge pressure on her and it’s pushing her right away. Full report when I get back but im having an amazing time - just about like I had hoped minus actual sex. At least all of the other effection is still there. Clearly I can’t let my and other people’s baggage influence me. Clearly this story has not ended. But relax I still see it all for what it is.
Full report soon !
*** busting out the popcorn and nachos and hotdogs and candy corn and a bottle of tequila***
Can't wait to hear the follow up.
Come on DH give us the 411. Did you follow the coaches advice? Hang out, hook up and have fun? Did you create a fun filled, romantic opportunity for sex to happen????
Sorry it's taken so long to get to post this - and because evidently I've been put in time out you won't see this post until someone makes sure I didn't use any naughty words that third graders use but we can't. I digress... there is so very much to tell and so much insight - including into the past months. The thing is, believe only half of what you see and none of what you hear. I think that's how it goes - and even in dating, like this, it's really applicable. I really don't believe what she told me and spoiler alert, she's trying to blame the cooling off on me and denies she didn't call me back, would not initiate texts, etc. She clearly hugely struggles with the truth - and that is one of my deal breakers. My other deal breaker is smoking - she clearly struggles with the truth there as well but I again digress. Let's get to the week.
It was mostly what I hoped it would be for nearly the last year now - just not a sex-filled week - at least not like it used to be when Wild Girl and I would get together and what I thought it would be back in the summer. However, it was way, way better than I thought it would be in the weeks leading up to sailing.
She came out on Thursday night and things were mostly normal. Nice hug greeting but no kiss. We went to a local place for some food and drinks. Things were a bit strained but not too much. We came back about 10 PM and were going to be picked up around 3 AM - Don't ask me why but it was not my call. She broke my shower - long story and no I was not in it with her. Then she could not sleep and I just went to bed alone. I was very restless and either the food or too much ibuprofen and Tylenol for my tooth really upset my stomach. She finally crashed on the couch and the alarm went off before we knew it. Only I was sick - really sick - as in puking sick. Uggggg great way to start out. At least it self limited.
We arrived early - by noon so had the day in Miami and went to South Beech. Things there were somewhat normal, even some hand holding. The hotel room had two beds and we made use of both of them. At least she was trying to be good. Saturday AM we had our first in depth chat about the situation (again I'll save these details for a later post) followed by our first kiss - nothing major. I should also mention that she had her monthly visit so it would not have allowed for some things anyhow. With this new guy's sister on the ship, it also made things a bit awkward for her - certainly not for me. He was also blowing up her phone and from what I could tell being a jerk as she didn't even want to talk with him anymore. Hmmmm. Evidently he "put her through hell" in the week leading up to the cruise. For some reason, she can't or doesn't want to understand why it's not normal to have one BF and go on a cruise with another guy. She really claims to not get it.
In the cabin there just wasn't a practical way to not share the bed. She made one comment about using the couch - which looked beyond uncomfortable and had our suit cases and other things piled on it. We had a queen size bed so it's not like we were on top of each other. She kept her PJs for the the first days - again due at least in part to her condition.
By Sunday, her monthly visit was done, we were back to a better rhythm and now out of phone service she was much more relaxed. We coasted along until word got out to our close group friends that she might have a BF. So now she felt really uncomfortable - well she did it to herself. I'd say Monday was the most down day - for multiple reasons including one of our ports got cancelled and it included a dune buggy excursion that we were really looking forward to. I know Monday was the most down day for me. I guess we all had one. But by Tuesday, things were starting to get much better. Wednesday was I think our best day. We did an ATV excursion with our group of 8 and it was beyond a blast. At night Wild Girl and I had dinner by ourselves at one of the specialty restaurants. This clearly helps me to answer Joseph's question
Did you create a fun filled, romantic opportunity for sex to happen????
It should be no surprise but after a really great day and going into a romantic dinner, things would set the stage. We talked more and by this time were already getting closer, including sleeping as we always had in the past at my house (I didn't think Wild Girl even owned PJs) LOL. I'm sure you know what's coming after such a fun-filled day and romantic dinner, including hand holding across the table and a few kisses. She did hold out to this 7th day - before having full sex I mean. I have to take great credit for that as well as I didn't push things at all. I let her take the lead. Once this ice was broken, it's how things would run through the rest of the cruise and until we got back.
By Friday Wild Girl was really starting to miss her girls. She may have missed someone else as well but she didn't comment on it. At first she was not going to stay Saturday night as planned after we got back but in the end she did. Her phone was blowing up very early Sunday morning already. When I asked who it was, "Who do you think" was the response. I'm sure he had a miserable week. She left about 9 AM and my life has returned to normal - at least my normal.
I will discuss all that I learned in a later post. I have to say, that I was right about one thing - I would have been really miserable and added to my already damaging cruise PTSD had I gone alone. Even though we didn't try to, we were together most all of the time. Those of you on here who are friends with me on FB have commented that it looked like a "couple-ee" cruise - and it was. Everyone in our close group was with a SO. We had rough seas on Wednesday night and all the couples retired early. I would have been left. That happened a lot. We had time to ourselves. I did have to perform with both bands - and that was more time than I anticipated but it was mostly in the first three days of the cruise. I again had Wednesday off which also helped that be the best day. Nights got more sparse. It was Wild Girl and I much of the time - then joined by all of the others who weaved in and out during the days.
I really needed this vacation and also needed it to go well. It stinks that it had to happen as it did. Right or wrong I am walking away from it all just fine. If anyone is to blame in all of this it's Wild Girl. She did not tell this guy a single word about the cruise until between Christmas and New Years. Not a word. She didn't tell me about him until the same time. She clearly orchestrated all of this so she could have the cruise with me and the new R with the new guy. Which, BTW, he claims they started dating in August - which she flat out denies and says he was still living with his GF of 14 years in August. He clearly went right from that girl to Wild Girl. WG was very likely the other woman who gave him the security to finally leave what he knew was not a good R. He can't be by himself? It certainly looks that way. I remember her telling me about this guy - calling him "her buddy" - which is what she says of me to him - I'm just her buddy. I'm pretty sure his sister saw otherwise and told him so - he just doesn't want to see what's right in front of his face and as long as she is back he doesn't care. Again, that's on him. He wants her or wants someone so bad he is willing to allow pretty much anything for it to happen.
The very first weekend after we re-met and then the following weekend went on a date, I told all of you she was broken. Was that theory not totally proven correct? As for her and I, I know I'll see her again - mostly because she left some cloths here LOL The short-term future will not have me in it - and I'm fine with that and is as much by my choice as anything else. I can't say we won't be friends going forward - just as we have been for a few years already but there is simply no way I could ever trust her. The damage inside of her runs really deep. Yet we get along really great, I learned some things from her, and her from me. In the end we dated for the summer, she started dating someone new - who is way more into her than she is into him - and went back to me for a week. That's dating. The only one not knowing or wanting to know the full truth is her new guy. That's his problem - not mine.
So there you go. After some discussion, I'll give you the details of her side of what happened from about mid-September and us drifting apart. I just don't think what she says is the truth really is the truth. I think the truth challenges her greatly.
Good for you DH all in all it sounds like it was a fun trip and it was more than you expected! Hang out, hook up, and have fun!
With this new guy's sister on the ship
Whoa! How on earth did that happen?
I thought I had mentioned this prior to leaving but perhaps not. I was told of this when he called me. BTW, it sounds like what I really said on the phone and what he heard (and told wild girl) were two different things. Interesting. Anyhow, it was pure, pure coincidence. His older sister and her husband had booked this cruise many months ago - just like many people do. It came out near the holidays that they are going on a cruise. Then out of Miami then on the same ship and same date. What are the chances. Either Wild Girl really doesn't get it or has nerves of steal. I met the sister a few times on the ship throughout the week. Wild Girl hung out with them a few times - including when I had to do a couple of early afternoon performances. Wild Girl came to all of the evening events with me but her and the other girls hung by the pool - which totally they should. So I'm sure sister and BIL saw us together - and they had friends there so if they didn't see us, it's pure luck. Wild girl was cautious about any PDA but it's not like there was none.
Human nature like this fascinates me. What bothers me is I'm beyond honest. I tell it like it is, don't lie and you always know where you stand with me. That just simply is not what many people do - including Wild Girl. Part of me wonders if it's a protection thing. Mostly I just think she weaves the truth to fit what she wants. I even heard her "whisper" to sister "We are just friends" with me standing there. First, I thought, don't protest too much. Why feel the need to say something like that unless you are trying to convince her otherwise. I think it was shortly after that when sister texted her brother that she was sorry. Of course he flipped out over that and got right on the phone to Wild Girl. Thank God we were leaving port and all service was going away until briefly on Friday. I pieced this together BTW - so I'm not positive on it but I'll bet I'm close.
So, yes, it was interesting to say the least. My friends trying to figure out what in the heck is going on. His sister watching. And Wild Girl trying to keep all of the balls up in the air, acting like my friend in public and mostly like my date when no one was around - although she didn't initiate kisses, hand holding, etc. near as much as I did. The sex I was very very careful not to push. But even that, the morning after the first night she fakes that she can't remember. "We didn't have sex last night did we?" She remembered EVERYTHING else - EVERYTHING from filling out the room service breakfast request to getting ready for bed, etc. - yet pretended that part was foggy. I'm like huh? Then it was "Oh yeah, it's coming back to me now." Whatever. Again, I was very, very careful to let her take the lead - and not to be graphic but right down to letting her guide everything into place. I really hope that's not TMI but I'm trying to paint an honest picture here of human dynamics - or at least Wild Girl dynamics. I in no way took advantage of her.
Lots of response to the pictures online including one of the many friends I have from different states who will see me this weekend commenting that he can't wait to meet Wild Girl. There is a huge event in Chicago this weekend with the same crowd and they just assume Wild Girl will be there. That's very doubtful although she said she did have the weekend off and "who knows." I took that to mean if new guy kicks her to the curb she will be taking a ride to see everyone and stay with me. I can't tell you how many people have commented - both how happy I look and about Wild Girl. What must this guy be thinking. To be a fly on the wall. I may text her later and likely call either tonight or tomorrow night.
Off to the dentist here to do my crown prep and then I'll regale the discussions about how we got to where we are - from Wild Girls view anyhow. Very, very different than my view. Is the truth somewhere in the middle? It may be very interesting for you all to hear both sides. I will be very interested in hearing your thoughts on it.
Don,
Congratulations on a fun and successful cruise! As sad as it makes me to say it, I'm certain you had more fun with Wild Girl than you would've had with me. Oh well.
Glad the trip went smoothly for you.
Since you asked. My thoughts on it..
My guess would be that wild girl feels quite pleased with herself. She probably brags about her situation with her friends. Feels like she is impressing them with her free spirited, or F all men im gonna do what i wanna do and they are gonna all chase after me and i get a free cruise story. They will all sit around drinking wine and laugh about it. Especially the part about having the dudes sister there.
I know tons of women out there like that. I have aquaintances that do the same. They are not deep individuals worthy of dissecting. The aquaintances i know that would do that also do stuff like f guys in bar bath rooms but have poor self esteem deep down that they keep hidden. They usually pretend to be great parents but secretly exploit the other moms and family members to help with the kids. (As a single mom with limited vacation time - if i took my time off to spend a vacation with him, he would have to be super meaningful in my life. ) these women tend to be filled with drama. And the attention they get at an age when they are not getting quite as much attention is appealing to them.
Im sure she feels just as powerful knowing she was able to get a man to cheat on his girl friend of 14 years with her. This just prooves how special she is. How beautiful and attractive she is to the opposite sex. In her mind anyway.
Describing her as having nerves of steel is giving her too much credit and indicates a form of admiration. Really, shes just a liar..the by ommission sort and is quite lacking as a human being.
I can't tell you how many people have commented - both how happy I look and about Wild Girl.
Donnie Juanny seems a little smitten. As coach would say "she's a great playmate but not relationship material".
The vacation high will ware off and things will be back to normal.
I agree with all of you. At least in the most part. I thought I'd have a bigger vacation high and larger depression. I'm surprised that both are tempered. The high was not as high and the "depression" lasted a few hours Sunday and has not returned. Right or wrong, my near entire focus was on having this cruise go well. And it did. Was it worth all of the bumps getting here - oddly yes - although I would much, much rather not have gone through that. I'll tell you something else, I'm not one bit upset that as of today we've not yet been asked back for next year. I'm almost relieved.
JuJu you hit on much of it - perhaps most. I really do think that she does feel a little guilt and a little bit bad - but not enough to stop or alter her behavior. I don't deny she feels "pleased" with herself pulling this off but I think even more, she somehow feels this is vindication or her gift for having endured through her marriage and the last guy dumping her. The self-esteem piece is dead on. I saw that in weeks one and two. She has very low self esteem. She doesn't think she's pretty, or worthy and uses sex to get men. She readily admits that she married her ex husband because she thought he was the best she could do and no one else would want her. She has to feel incredible having some guy (me) take her on the longest and one of the best vacations of her life and have this new guy overlook it and be waiting with total excitement for her to return. When we briefly spoke about posting pictures, I was a touch surprised when she said she was going to post all of them - including with me. She even made a comment about being proud that I took her. Interesting.
The drama part does not fit as much. I have to give her this, she is very nice and very kind to people. Is it an act? Who knows? Of the group of 8 at our dinner table a few of them liked to gossip about others. Wild Girl was very quiet often and hates this type of thing. There was an adult autistic man in the group of 600. I did not know him but he's the son of a sax player in the large big band that was core. I think he's 50. He's high function but you can tell he's not right. I tend to try to ignore these people as if you don't, they will hang on you all week. Wild Girl on the other hand took the time to dance with him, was nice to him and I'm sure made him feel great. The others could not understand it and I think secretly wished she would shut him down so he would not bother us. I don't think this was feeding her ego in any way. It's just who she is. Even broken people can have some redeeming qualities.
As coach would say "she's a great playmate but not relationship material".
That's what I've been saying from the get go - "she's fun to play with, but that's about it." Perhaps I'm in the wrong. Maybe I used her as much as she used me? But I don't deny it. It's why I never pursued a committed R with her. Well part of it anyhow along with not trusting her, etc. She got along well with everyone, never gave me any grief, was supportive of the "work" I had to do, was very appreciative and thanked me often, bought drinks and food, etc. (pre and post cruise) as much as I did. And I don't even have to "deal with her" after. Doesn't make me look too good but at least I'm honest about it. If I had more quality women to chose from I'd chose differently. My choices were what they were and in the end I really don't regret it. Over the last couple months I certainly did, but not in the end. Hopefully the real deal will not be too far down the road in my future. I do like her. It's just too bad she's so broken - and I don't see that ever changing.
Congratulations on a fun and successful cruise! As sad as it makes me to say it, I'm certain you had more fun with Wild Girl than you would've had with me. Oh well.
I was way ahead of the curve on this one too. LOL Great to see you finally admit it. Plus, Wild Girl really does look great in a black dress!
I may text her later and likely call either tonight or tomorrow night.
Ummm.....why again?
I get that you enjoyed the female company and that maybe - just maybe - you find yourself ready for a girlfriend at this stage of your life.
But you already get that she's a bag of cats and likely to be nothing but trouble going forward.
So why would you be spending more time on her as opposed to seeking out other more appropriate partners?
Even as a casual "friend with benefits" she's not a good candidate as she has some serious issues with honesty.
Please start a new thread and link the two threads together. Thanks!
However, i think you get the feeling I'm a convert and one of this coach's follower's now and that's just not the case. He's got some good points and common sense things but he's very narrow and not what I'd call an expert. In some ways it's like the joke "How to be a millionaire." Then they tell you how..."Okay, first, get a million dollars. Now..." That's kinda what the coach says - only date women who are at least on a 6 or was it 7 scale of interest in you. So in other words, only date women who are already into you and interested. Well, duh, anyone can be successful if the woman already wants you. What about those who you want and need to get them to want you? He doesn't at all talk about that - he says move on, don't even try. Keeping her attraction is more his shtick. But I did learn at least a few things and agreed with others but still disagree with quite a bit. In fact, if Wild Girl is to be believed, it was because I followed the coach (without knowing it) that she lost interest. I don't believe her but that's her story.
However, i think you get the feeling I'm a convert and one of this coach's follower's now and that's just not the case. He's got some good points and common sense things but he's very narrow and not what I'd call an expert. In some ways it's like the joke "How to be a millionaire." Then they tell you how..."Okay, first, get a million dollars. Now..." That's kinda what the coach says - only date women who are at least on a 6 or was it 7 scale of interest in you. So in other words, only date women who are already into you and interested. Well, duh, anyone can be successful if the woman already wants you. What about those who you want and need to get them to want you? He doesn't at all talk about that - he says move on, don't even try.
DH you could read all the books in the world and it's not gonna help you pick up super models unless of course you became rich based on all the information you learned from reading all the books in the world.
Keeping her attraction is more his shtick. But I did learn at least a few things and agreed with others but still disagree with quite a bit. In fact, if Wild Girl is to be believed, it was because I followed the coach (without knowing it) that she lost interest. I don't believe her but that's her story.
Wrong! She lost interest with you because of your two hour phone calls and you becoming her emotional tampon. That would have been prevented if you read the book 10-15 times. Did you notice that on the cruise there were fun filled evenings and what happened you stole another man's punani. A lot different that blabbering back and forth on the phone about your favorite color right? All in the book.
Go read Ballasts thread in Newcomer Section. He may have blown a chance with a new girl he just met because he didn't know the fundamentals in the book.
LH 19
Havent read the books so im only basing this on what you are saying.
It totally depends on the girl.
A girl with low self esteem or a girl that maybe likes competing with other girls -like wild girl - yup. I agree with you 100 percent. The more distant, the less available the guy is. The more shes gonna respect him. Games will work on them. Another woman in the background will pike their interest.
But i think that advise would not work on a girl like Josephs, dr. It would certainly not work on me. I like deeper conversations. Makes me feel more emotionally connected. Feeling emotionally connected makes me feel safe and adds chemistry. It is a sexual turn on. If i sense a guy is distancing, im not gonna pursue. Im gonna detach and start thinking sexually about other guys that i can feel connected with. If i sense a guy is out with other women, thats gonna present more like a red flag with me. It will not make me have feelings of attraction for him.
^^^^, Juju, a very smart, and beautiful educated woman is exactly right.
On a woman such as Juju, Dawn or Myself, the hours of phone calls would not have lowered our attraction level. On a woman like WG, who likes the next shiny thing and uses people, it probably killed it for her.
What really pi$$es me off about the coaches advice is how he generalizes women. Depending on what that woman wants, how she conducts herself, how she trets herself and men, the "advice" will greatly differ from woman to woman.
If I am interested in a guy and feel stimulated mentally by them, I would welcome the hour phone calls (if I didn't have a kid). If I just wanted to use the guy for what he has to offer me, They would drive me away.
I mean, if they guy's goal is to "have, fun, hook up, hang out" (I really hate that saying) then yeah, I would say, keep it short and sweet. But like Juju said , deep lengthy conversations intellectually and emotionally stimulate me and increase attraction for me, just like Juju.
Depends what kind of chicks you guys dig. If you dig the superficial kinds who just want to hook up and hang out then move onto the next when they got what they need, then I think this coach probably has some good advice.
You want a woman on a deeper, more emotional intellectual level, his game isn't going to work.
I am certainly not the poster child for success but any time a girl has blown up my phone from day 1 and has engaged me in long conversations it has not worked in my favor. I have no problems wanting to make deeper connections but IMO some of it has to do with the interaction level of the woman as well. If she is not reaching out to me on a daily basis then I am not going to engage her on a daily basis either.
The Coaches point about staying off the phone is to have these conversations in person, face to face, to make a date. I do agree with that in theory but that is virtually impossible to do when you have children, parenting schedules, etc. I don't know that I have seen him address that. At times I feel his advice is more for people that are single with no kids and meeting up in person is easier to do.
What I struggle the most with his determining how much to pursue, initiative, and interact without coming across needy, desperate, and giving off the impression I have nothing else going on in my life. I don't have problem on dates, holding conversation, being relaxed, asking questions, escalating, etc. It is all the in between crap that I struggle with.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2835006#Post2835006