Previous Thread:
Good Riddance 2017 Don, why would you be able to love a child but not a partner? Why is it so hard to love again? I feel this too, so im just asking not trying to psychoanalyze you or anything.
Ginger, you said something about making a new life. I think maybe it still feels wrong. Like its still hard to accept that my ex is not in my life. That new life will be with someone not my ex. It cant be with ex and thats not because of my choices. Its done. Its over. An elected death.
He is the one that unilaterally made the decision to leave. I never found proof of cheating. I am pretty sure he had some casual relationships after we had separated. But no one that really seems to have lasted. (Again purely speculative based on sons descriotions of playdates with moms who i assume are single and kids that are not his age)
I dont have hard core proof that it was drugs although everything points this way. Except that he got a raise at work and looks good.
I was fantasizing that we were made to live together by some outside force. How i would not be able to sleep with him, or even eat a meal with him because of how uncomfortable it would be. Yet it still was something i would want.
But i do miss the old times and how our lives should have been.
I dont know if it was drugs that made him abandon us. I just dont have real info like everyone else on these forums. Or like other partners on the drug forums. If he didnt cheat. If it was a disease can i really hate him? Is it fair to villify like i could if he cheated.
When i believe he did nit cheat, nut had a drug problen i still love him. If he cheated on me i would not love him cause i would have no sympathy for a cheater.
Its all me putting puzzle pieces together. I think if i knew for sure it would be easier.
I think what im saying is that NG is my plan B. And I am his plan B as well. So maybe its harder to love in those situations?
Ugh. I just remembered this one family party pre BD in which my ex was talking so sweetly to my gorgeous and significantly younger cousin. At the time i felt so hurt and angry because he was talking to her the way he talked to me at one point. But he knew her when she was under 10.
F. Him.
Sometimes you are better off with plan b's, no?
I think what im saying is that NG is my plan B. And I am his plan B as well. So maybe its harder to love in those situations?
No this isn't so Ju.
Neither of you are going back to R with dingbat wassocks. That's making each other Plan B.
Whathe you have is a DRAFT plan A. Plan A in the making, provisional tentative, negotiating the clauses. Except in this case it's a Plan A with negotiation.
Nothing wrong with that.
Real true love (not limmerance) takes a long time. Don't knock it.
V
Ugh. I just remembered this one family party pre BD in which my ex was talking so sweetly to my gorgeous and significantly younger cousin. At the time i felt so hurt and angry because he was talking to her the way he talked to me at one point. But he knew her when she was under 10.
F. Him.
Sometimes you are better off with plan b's, no?
He was Tring to Seduce her? It is the first time you have mentioned exWH using pacing and hypnotic trance techniques.
Will reserve until after my exams but I have some clean questions to ask.
V
I dont know if he was trying to seduce her. I just always noticed that his tone was consistently nicer to her then to anyone else. No one in my family ever noticed it, (they would have told me by now) but i did. Especially at the end. When he ewas just so nasty to me and avoidant of everyone else.
He was nice to her boyfriend too. I almost felt like he wanted to be their age and related to them.
My cousin dresses super sexy. Like a celebrity. I was like that when i was younger. When i got older, i just wanted to be comfortable and was not as confident about my body as i was when i was an exercise, track/field nut. My ex wanted me to dress up more. And i just wanted to be comfortable.
But i dont know if he was trying to consiously seduce her. She would never go for him.
Good luck on your exams V.
But you know what...i assumed he wasn't cheating, because he was just so asexual with me. Not the flirty womanizer type.
But if he was using a different tone with my cousin, that indicates he was probably like that with other women. He just lost it for me. Or he never really had it for me. I remember him being pretty empty. Kind of like that putty character from seinfeld. So i felt safe that he was not a womanizer. Thats why the tone with my cousin stood out.
By seduction I don't mean sexual seduction necessarily, although it can be.
The G was the same also using physical touch but as a kind of persuasion technique.
With compulsives never assume anything.
V
I met someone whose adult daughter and 2 grandkids were living with her. She was telling me things about her ex sil that i could so relate to. How he looked for every excuse to run an errand. Like errands that were illogical and made no sense. Like going to the supermarket to get milk in the middle of the night, when it easily could have waited (i thought my ex was just an ocd engineer). Or how her sil worked so much she could never ubderstand how they didn't have anything.
Check. EVERYONE questioned why we didnt have a house.
Well her sil ebentually ended up in and out of rehab. And doesnt talk to the kids. Thats not my situation. My ex is functioning ok.
But i am sick with anger.
It is really hard to be organized in my parents house. And i cant take it anymore. Everything gets lost. I cant keep track of things. I feel like im losing my mind. I dont have storage space.
I just want my own space.
If i lived on my own, had equity. Something to count on for retirement, none of this would bother me as much.
I went to school. Had really good grades. Got a doctorate in my profession. Waited till i was settled to have a child. Married someone that was an educated professional. And i got screwed.
Here's the funny thing. My ex told me I was the worst thing that came into his life. How he wished he never met me.
Ditto, if it wasnt for my son.
Now i know how bad people in 3rd world countries have it. I get it. I really do. Bit im not in a 3rd world country. I had opportunitites so it feels eben worse that im living like a knocked up teenager cause i married a duplicitous pos.
F. Him. And F. His mother. She had the nerve to send my son a 10 dollar gift certificate to mcdonalds. Wjy not give me back sone of the child support your son never paid me. Or chip in for yoir grandsons medical amd extra curriculars whoch is never given to me. Help me with rent. Since my parents housed her derelict son.
She knows i hate for son to eat fast food.
Ju
I understand the anger. Sweetheart the waste of it all, to be with an addict whose addiction consumes everything. It isn't fair, on you, your parents or your son. Not one little tiny bit.
You have the right to be angry.
If your ex isn't paying can you do an earnings attachment?
V
He pays child support. Just i have to chase him down for things like therapy and camp. I was also referring to that time before i took him to court.
I remember another thing he said to me after BD. He said he was just waiting till son turned 21 so he could leave me.
What happened was that we were at my parents for a year, and i was telling him we would have to move and consider putting down for a housea and i was asking him how much he was saving. I had no idea about the debt or his depletion of his IRA. So insteqd of waiting till son was 21, he had to act. He pushed buttons and picked fights disappeared all the time to justify leaving based on my reactions
Can you imagine if we had reconciled? He woukd have been waiting and buying his time to screw me over when i was older.
I remember while divorce busting. I could never keep my emotions in. I acted on emotions. Begging, screaming at him. Telling him he wasnt a man or a father. Like filing for child suppprt in court. Had i not done that, he probably would have came back. He would have realized how much more money he cpuld have spent on drugs if he didnt have to pay child support and if he had a wife willing to walk on egg shells to keep him around.
My so called negative reactions and emotions actually saved me from a future with him. It would have added years to him screwing us over on a daily basis.
We all try to help people reconcilw their marriages with cheaters and addicts and liars and we shouldnt be.
As a hralth care professional, michelle weiner davis owes her clients (by clients i also mean book readers) more. She needs to add a chapter in on abuse.
She doesnt though. She admits in her mid life crises section that she has never had to live with someone like that. But still offers hope.
You know who else offers hope? Psychics and con artists and many divorce lawyers. They pray on vulnerable people. Most of us here were in abusive or toxic situations. We are the most vulnerable. Chrissy, scouring these forums coming on here with help for over 100 dollars an hour for a phone visit? Whats the difference between her and an ambulabce chaser?
I just feel so traumatized by the years of deception.
I feel like a broken record on here though. Cause i keep saying and feeling the same way. The cycles of anger. That feeling of financial stuckness. Even with taking on more hours, it helps me with small things. But nothing big. Like equity.
She doesnt though. She admits in her mid life crises section that she has never had to live with someone like that. But still offers hope.
JujuB,
A couple of years ago, I looked into Michele Weiner-Davis' background. He parents divorced when she was young. She said it seemed to come out of nowhere. Her parents seemed to be happy and there was no fighting or open hostility. For whatever reason, her mother wanted a divorce.
Because of her childhood experience Michele wanted to do what she could to save marriages. She obviously knows the pain of the children who have to go through divorce. I think her heart is in the right place. I do think the advice provided by the DB book is probably better applied very early in the process of a marital decline.
I know you're in a difficult place emotionally. My own anger waxes and wanes. I hate that my sons' lives were disrupted by something so senseless. The guy my wife hooked up with is, by almost any definition, a complete loser. And, he's never going to leave his wife. Yet my sons have to pay the price.
Hang in there; everything seems to take longer than we'd like.
I think her books are excellent books for marriages in decline. I think they would be particularly suited to those thinking of leaving their marriages. I recommend them all the tine to the rare waywards that come on here.
The problem is that many of the posters on here have been gaslighted by their spouses. Their spouses are secret addicts, or secret/open cheaters. We have even had a pedophile spouse on here.
The problem is 180s and validation techniques and petting the kitten crap just takes away the power of the LBS. It perpetuates the abuse at a time that we just needed to hear "hes cheating and lying and exposing you to diseases...run!" Not your marriage can actually be stronger after infidelity.
I think she needs to distinguish from a marriage that can be saved and continuing on in a abusive situation for the sake of the marriage. The problem as vanilla has pointed out, is that the truly abused dont realize that they are being abused. They grab on to books and promises like preventing a divorce because they believe their spouses lies. They believe it was them. That they were the problems. Thats what they have been brainwqshed with by their wayward spouses.
The problem is that many of the posters on here have been gaslighted by their spouses. Their spouses are secret addicts, or secret/open cheaters. We have even had a pedophile spouse on here.
The problem is 180s and validation techniques and petting the kitten crap just takes away the power of the LBS. It perpetuates the abuse at a time that we just needed to hear "hes cheating and lying and exposing you to diseases...run!" Not your marriage can actually be stronger after infidelity.
I think she needs to distinguish from a marriage that can be saved and continuing on in a abusive situation for the sake of the marriage. The problem as vanilla has pointed out, is that the truly abused dont realize that they are being abused. They grab on to books and promises like preventing a divorce because they believe their spouses lies. They believe it was them. That they were the problems. Thats what they have been brainwashed with by their wayward spouses.
JujuB,
I completely agree! That's why I preach "pack their sh*t and boot 'em out."
There is a difference between avoiding something you don't want and getting what you want. Playing the abuse and booting them out card avoids a tough situation, but it doesn't result in a lifelong fulfilling partnership. The result is divorce and a broken home.
The main culprit is this persistent delusion that "we deserve more and we'll find someone better". It took me a while to understand how people would still believe this but it is a very alluring idea because we all think we're special and deserve to have our wishes come true. In practice it just doesn't play out that way. Somewhere around 40% never remarry, and approximately 67% of those who do go on to divorce. So right there the odds are 20% that someone will achieve a life long marriage after a divorce. And that still hasn't addressed the relative quality of the partner. Many of those marriages aren't any better, but sometimes people learn to put up with a little more because the grass isn't greener. In the end it's the same group of people divorcing and remarrying each other, and they are all flawed humans. And even for the subset of this 20% that was truly in a threatening situation who found better success with their next partner, they are still dealing with the loss and ramifications of their divorce for the rest of their life. Don't hit me with anecdotes about someone that's found the love of their life. I know they are out there. If you do an unbiased survey the conclusions are clear.
This is the part that gets left out of the 'don't put up with their crap'. As long as we're comparing a bad relationship with the fantasy of reading a self help book or two and ending up in a fulfilling lifelong relationship then our current relationship looks pretty bad. In fact, this line of reasoning is the same that WAS's use in the first place. The WAS thinks they were abused and they are doing the right thing by not taking any crap. They think they're special and deserve better.
MWD's message is very similar to what I've posted. She is saying that in almost all cases that a spouse thinks their marriage could never change and be fulfilling there is hope, and divorce isn't the right answer. Yes, she was shaped by her personal experiences, but also by being an IC for years and seeing the reality of how hundreds of divorces initiated and played out.
I don't mean to be discouraging to people that are single that didn't choose to be. I am a LBS as are most of you on these boards. But to me the whole "I deserve better and I'm going to go get it" attitude is what's responsible for more destruction that the H bomb. It was responsible for the biggest loss in my life and it hasn't worked out that well for XW from what I can tell. If her life improves years from now it will be in spite of the divorce, not because of it. So I'm not going to turn the tables and say, "XW had the right attitude, I should've just played the 'I deserve better' card first and left her years ago so I could be living the dream by now".
Zues,
I agree with you. But, when a spouse is having an affair, and the affair is discovered, I really think the hard-line approach would result in a better outcome, in most cases, than the "game playing" approach (180s, no kissing, and the rest of the stuff). Regardless of approach, I think GAL is very important.
The problem with the softer approach is that it's nearly impossible for the LBS to implement effectively and it usually results in a lot of cake eating. The LBS eventually learns how to properly apply the techniques, but by then they've been gaslighted and used as a doormat.
Of course, the problem with the hard-line approach is the same; it's difficult to get people to execute the "pack 'em up and move 'em out" approach.
I had a boss who's wife was having an online EA. As soon as he discovered it, he filed for divorce, went out and bought his own house and moved out. He was divorced in three months. His wife came back shortly after a heated divorce and they're together, but I don't think he'll ever remarry her because he no longer trusts her. (They have two kids that were relatively young at the time of the divorce.)
Yes. LBS's new to these forums struggle to grasp the advice being given. They hear "detach" as a maneuver designed to avoid the loss they are facing so they don't have to detach.
My last post didn't address what I think LBS's SHOULD do, only what I consider to be a common mistake of adapting the WAS mentality.
There is a road in which you can detach, set strong boundaries, become a better person, and find purpose and meaning and fulfillment within the chaos of a broken relationship. This isn't about enabling addiction or enduring abuse or demeaning yourself. There's a narrative out there that it takes a strong person to walk away from a bad relationship, when it actually takes a much stronger person to transcend their domestic struggles when their partner is falling short at that time.
From this state amazing transformations are possible, individually at first, and even with the relationship. MWD is about finding this strength and giving the opportunity for some of those transformations to occur. Yes, many LBS's remain weak and cling to an approach and a relationship that isn't functional. But growth comes from experience and failure, so some of that is healthy as part of the process. It may take a few months or a few years before an LBS finds the right path, but it's worth it if they learn this lesson in the end. They grow and may even preserve the family. Filing D isn't true strength, it's running from the biggest character and strength builder out there. Only MWD's road might actually result in the outcome we all really want: A good lifelong relationship with our spouse.
His wife came back shortly after a heated divorce and they're together, but I don't think he'll ever remarry her because he no longer trusts her. (They have two kids that were relatively young at the time of the divorce.)
This got me thinking of what it would take for me to trust my XW again if she wanted to R. At first I thought "not possible", but then I wondered.
Me, I could write a book on this subject expressing many of the views I've posted about. I've reflected on it for years and have posted enough content that if I was inspired to organize it, flesh it out, and polish it up it could be a fun read.
So maybe that would be what it would take. If XW was like "I've changed, I want to make this work, what would it take for a second chance?", maybe the right answer is "Publish a 400+ page book that is pro marriage". Hey, if all it took to save your marriage was writing a book then that seems a small price to pay, right? If she can't or won't write that book, how much has really changed?
But still offers hope.
You know who else offers hope? Psychics and con artists and many divorce lawyers. They pray on vulnerable people. Most of us here were in abusive or toxic situations. We are the most vulnerable. Chrissy, scouring these forums coming on here with help for over 100 dollars an hour for a phone visit? Whats the difference between her and an ambulabce chaser?
Hope is what brought pretty much all of us here. And hope is what kept some of us fighting for something that was already dead. I remember writing to another poster quite some time ago who was really trying to understand and analyze that by the time most people ended up here, we were a very small set of those who could possibly reconcile. It takes an act of desperation to throw yourself on the some-times not so tender mercies of a peer supported forum.
Many of the strategies promoted by MWD are very likely quite effective in the "he leaves the toilet seat up" and "she doesn't think my truck is sexy" land but not so much for the "she's been banging the milk-man for months now" class.
I have noticed though and did check back and it's been some time since Christy has done her little welcome pitch. Close on to a year now I think. That and some of the other issues we have technically make me think that the company sponsoring this site isn't focused on it. Thank heavens for the moderators who are doing their best trying to keep things afloat despite an apparent lack of support.
From a commercial standpoint, this place is an entry-way into the counseling and book selling business. I have no problem with that. Bills gotta get paid. And I've witnessed people on this forum who have been legitimately helped by the services provided. I am in many ways one of them despite some very very nasty turns and conflicts I had with some very unkind people here who believed that they alone possessed "the truth".
The one question though that I burned to have an answer for at the beginning and was unable to get was "should I be hoping". I see this being asked from time to time - I don't pay too much attention to newcomers anymore - and still see people being given a hard time for not drinking the kool-aid of hope and "da rules" etc given to them by people who are themselves new to this too.
I think it boils down to "ya get what ya pays fer". I continue to be grateful for people like job, dream, and especially Jack_Three_Beans who have all been very kind to a lost and confused man.
By agreeing to be in this "house" we agree to play by their rules. It would be good if we could spare others the grief and sorrow caused by hope held on to too long - but who are we to judge? I get chastized sometimes when I post that not only do I not know the answers, but those others here also don't
know the answers. And in many cases, people only accept the answers they want to hear.
That "confirmation bias" which I wrote about very many times along with the associated cognitive dissonance meant that I kept seeking the answers I wanted to hear. Which were perhaps not the ones I needed to hear.
Just my 2 cents Canadian.
This got me thinking of what it would take for me to trust my XW again if she wanted to R. At first I thought "not possible", but then I wondered.
I've been asked this question a lot. My answer is that I can't see her doing what it would take for me to ever trust her again.
According to rumour she's got the sadz these days and I could imagine that she would be happy if her knight in battered armour with an old shaving basin for a helmet tried to rescue her. It would be a boost for her ego at least. I've gotten out of the rescuing business.
There is a difference between avoiding something you don't want and getting what you want. Playing the abuse and booting them out card avoids a tough situation, but it doesn't result in a lifelong fulfilling partnership. The result is divorce and a broken home.
The main culprit is this persistent delusion that "we deserve more and we'll find someone better". It took me a while to understand how people would still believe this but it is a very alluring idea because we all think we're special and deserve to have our wishes come true. In practice it just doesn't play out that way. Somewhere around 40% never remarry, and approximately 67% of those who do go on to divorce. So right there the odds are 20% that someone will achieve a life long marriage after a divorce. And that still hasn't addressed the relative quality of the partner. Many of those marriages aren't any better, but sometimes people learn to put up with a little more because the grass isn't greener. In the end it's the same group of people divorcing and remarrying each other, and they are all flawed humans. And even for the subset of this 20% that was truly in a threatening situation who found better success with their next partner, they are still dealing with the loss and ramifications of their divorce for the rest of their life. Don't hit me with anecdotes about someone that's found the love of their life. I know they are out there. If you do an unbiased survey the conclusions are clear.
This is the part that gets left out of the 'don't put up with their crap'. As long as we're comparing a bad relationship with the fantasy of reading a self help book or two and ending up in a fulfilling lifelong relationship then our current relationship looks pretty bad. In fact, this line of reasoning is the same that WAS's use in the first place. The WAS thinks they were abused and they are doing the right thing by not taking any crap. They think they're special and deserve better.
MWD's message is very similar to what I've posted. She is saying that in almost all cases that a spouse thinks their marriage could never change and be fulfilling there is hope, and divorce isn't the right answer. Yes, she was shaped by her personal experiences, but also by being an IC for years and seeing the reality of how hundreds of divorces initiated and played out.
I don't mean to be discouraging to people that are single that didn't choose to be. I am a LBS as are most of you on these boards. But to me the whole "I deserve better and I'm going to go get it" attitude is what's responsible for more destruction that the H bomb. It was responsible for the biggest loss in my life and it hasn't worked out that well for XW from what I can tell. If her life improves years from now it will be in spite of the divorce, not because of it. So I'm not going to turn the tables and say, "XW had the right attitude, I should've just played the 'I deserve better' card first and left her years ago so I could be living the dream by now".
Thats why i said that michelle weiners books are better suited for the waywards that have ended their marriage, their contract by cheating..by lies (and i dont mean im not the one that finished off the ice cream lies)...im talking about leading secret lives that destroy.
Im saying that her theories are distorted by people really being abused and made fools of, like most of the posters here.. and yes i know most of the waywards here have pulled the abuse card so none of us want to be as unfair amd dare to claim it.
r even trust it. My ex told me and everyone how i was emotionally and verbally abusive. Hah!
But the idea or concept of working to save a marriage by eating sh!t sandwicjes with someone that is cheating or has cheated or has lied and stolen from his own family is outrageous and perpetuates abuse.
It actually would have worked out for me had i left my ex before he left me.
Thats because he was secretly building up debt and withdrawing tons of money for years.
So had i been the one to leave earlier, my life would definitively be no worse.
Theres a possibility it could be better
1. I would have been receiving his child support.
2. I would have known, and made different financial decisions.
3. I would have been younger. Would have had the opportunity to have another child with someone new.
4. My son wpuld bond with a step dad at a younger age.
Had we reconciled. If Dbing worked for me
1. I would have been exposed and could have possibly contracted some serious diseases.
2. My son could have found and injested carelessly misplaced drugs if ex decompensated (that almost happened with that persons grandchild i wrote about in an earlier post)
3. Even worse financial ruin
There is a difference between avoiding something you don't want and getting what you want. Playing the abuse and booting them out card avoids a tough situation, but it doesn't result in a lifelong fulfilling partnership. The result is divorce and a broken home.
The main culprit is this persistent delusion that "we deserve more and we'll find someone better". It took me a while to understand how people would still believe this but it is a very alluring idea because we all think we're special and deserve to have our wishes come true. In practice it just doesn't play out that way. Somewhere around 40% never remarry, and approximately 67% of those who do go on to divorce. So right there the odds are 20% that someone will achieve a life long marriage after a divorce. And that still hasn't addressed the relative quality of the partner. Many of those marriages aren't any better, but sometimes people learn to put up with a little more because the grass isn't greener. In the end it's the same group of people divorcing and remarrying each other, and they are all flawed humans. And even for the subset of this 20% that was truly in a threatening situation who found better success with their next partner, they are still dealing with the loss and ramifications of their divorce for the rest of their life. Don't hit me with anecdotes about someone that's found the love of their life. I know they are out there. If you do an unbiased survey the conclusions are clear.
This is the part that gets left out of the 'don't put up with their crap'. As long as we're comparing a bad relationship with the fantasy of reading a self help book or two and ending up in a fulfilling lifelong relationship then our current relationship looks pretty bad. In fact, this line of reasoning is the same that WAS's use in the first place. The WAS thinks they were abused and they are doing the right thing by not taking any crap. They think they're special and deserve better.
MWD's message is very similar to what I've posted. She is saying that in almost all cases that a spouse thinks their marriage could never change and be fulfilling there is hope, and divorce isn't the right answer. Yes, she was shaped by her personal experiences, but also by being an IC for years and seeing the reality of how hundreds of divorces initiated and played out.
I don't mean to be discouraging to people that are single that didn't choose to be. I am a LBS as are most of you on these boards. But to me the whole "I deserve better and I'm going to go get it" attitude is what's responsible for more destruction that the H bomb. It was responsible for the biggest loss in my life and it hasn't worked out that well for XW from what I can tell. If her life improves years from now it will be in spite of the divorce, not because of it. So I'm not going to turn the tables and say, "XW had the right attitude, I should've just played the 'I deserve better' card first and left her years ago so I could be living the dream by now".
Thats why i said that michelle weiners books are better suited for the waywards that have ended their marriage, their contract by cheating..by lies (and i dont mean im not the one that finished off the ice cream lies)...im talking about leading secret lives that destroy.
Im saying that her theories are distorted by people really being abused and made fools of, like most of the posters here.. and yes i know most of the waywards here have pulled the abuse card so none of us want to be as unfair amd dare to claim it.
r even trust it. My ex told me and everyone how i was emotionally and verbally abusive. Hah!
But the idea or concept of working to save a marriage by eating sh!t sandwicjes with someone that is cheating or has cheated or has lied and stolen from his own family is outrageous and perpetuates abuse.
I think we're on the same page that there is a time to stay and there is a time to go. Then we're just back to where that line is.
I've posted about the trade off before between more deal breakers and higher divorce rate. In general I tend to be more conservative than most so it seems that a lot of divorces could be prevented and might even circle around to decent relationships, and that this mindset is contagious as a society and has been overused and spread like wildfire. To others where I would draw the line seems to advocate for enduring and enabling abuse and mistreatment.
One thing is clear: There is not a consensus. Each person decides according to their values and beliefs (or desires and emotions) where that line is. While I think that makes the institution of marriage pretty bumpy (like trying to play a game where everyone makes up their own rules) I don't see that changing. I can certainly accept that many draw those lines differently. In the end I'll share my beliefs with my children and those that are interested and try to manage my own road.
As far as your specific sitch, first off even I agree that adultery is a deal breaker. I don't think this was ever confirmed in your sitch. As for the other things, I wouldn't regret your choices if I were in your place. You can measure your life by taking a tally of your income and current quality of life, or by your ability to look in the mirror and feel good about the choices you've made. Maybe if you were to do it differently you might have protected the family's finances differently or confronted these things differently, but I don't think remaining married was a blunder. I know things would have been materialistically easier had I left XW years ago, but just as I never regret having my children, I also don't regret honoring my vows and doing what I could to preserve my family. I get where you're coming from. Again, we all draw those lines a little differently and I can respect that.
Things would have been better had I left W a long time ago also, she was controlling and in the end held me back from becoming who i was meant to be. Except, I made the choice to be who I was and can't really put that on her. Maybe had I never married her I would own my own business by now, traveled the entire world and married a much more compatible person. But then again I wouldn't have my kids either and instead married a serial killer. I could say had I saved the marriage I would have ended up being forced to cheat on her and live in a loveless marriage disproving why this site would have been, that's a reality that could have happened also.
I could look at an unlimited amount of realities and rewrite them to suit what I want to hear, pick the ones I like most or that were even the most likely. However, none of them happened so they are based in fantasy. In the end those realities only serve to keep us stuck in what should have been or could have been instead or looking at the reality of now. Life could better, sure, but for most of us it could be significantly worse also. I spent alot is time here both when I was trying to cling to the M and afterwards when I was angry with BD. In the beginning I only seen and heard what I wanted to hear "this is how you fix this" instead of the deal message that was fit in about improving yourself, growing as a person and letting go of trying to control someone. Afterwards I couldn't accept the failure so places the blame on a broken theory. One where we should have never tried to save the M and everyone was a fool for "eating [censored] sandwiches". But after a while I realized I was still cherry picking what I wanted to hear. My DB coach showed me how to stand up for myself in a strong way and not allow people to walk over me. How to set strong boundaries and grow as a person. My coach even told me to "give yourself permission to give up on my M". Not to save the M, but to help me let go of things outside of my control. I think the root principles we see in DB are good, we just perceive them in a different way depending on where we are. I don't blame MWD for making a business aorund believing in something like hope a marriage can get better, because for some it can and even if it didn't work those things translated into different area did my life positively.
Do you want to be someone else other than who you are now? To accept who you are now you have to accept the events in your life as stepping stones that shaped you, no matter what they may be. In the end we may not have control over the events or situations that happen in our lives but we do have control of how we react to them and what we take away from them.
Fogg, i think the DBing books and theories are great books for declining marriages.
My point is that the majority of us on here were not merely in declining marriages. We were being deceived and abused. In marriages with addicts and cheaters.
Deceived and abused people are usually being gaslighted which makes it easy for us to think we can fix our marriages. We think its us! Most of us are already pro marriage. Most abused people dont recognize they are being abused. They are not the ones to call out abuse. They are frustrated, depressed, know something is wrong. But will stay and try to fix things. Thats why we all love newcomers. Its about staying and fixing things.
But there needs to be acknowledgement in her books. She is a health care professional. I would hope she is aware of the type of people posting here...people using her books to justify staying with addicts, cheaters, and even pedophiles.
When you put something out there, and build something based on helping vulnerable people there should also be a responsibility to go back and check. Make changes. Address misconceptions.
Now if you are in it for a quick buck. To exploit those people, thats a different story. Just 1 more con. But i hope thats not what this is.
I think her chapter on mid life crisis perpetuates staying in an abusive relationship. She admits to never having been im that situation and to not being sure if she would be able to stick with a partner in "mlc" yet she doesnt discourqge it. She almost paints this picture of admiration for people that do.
Yet if she came on here and read the stories of these kids that are suicidal and developing eating disorders and behabior problems cause mom is noble and staying with her mlc spouse. I wonder what she would say.
(I will pm you a current poster in mlc that makes me feel so horrible for her son. I had to stop reading)
Fogg, i think the DBing books and theories are great books for declining marriages.
My point is that the majority of us on here were not merely in declining marriages. We were being deceived and abused. In marriages with addicts and cheaters.
Deceived and abused people are usually being gaslighted which makes it easy for us to think we can fix our marriages. We think its us! Most of us are already pro marriage. Most abused people dont recognize they are being abused. They are not the ones to call out abuse. They are frustrated, depressed, know something is wrong. But will stay and try to fix things. Thats why we all love newcomers. Its about staying and fixing things.
But there needs to be acknowledgement in her books. She is a health care professional. I would hope she is aware of the type of people posting here...people using her books to justify staying with addicts, cheaters, and even pedophiles.
When you put something out there, and build something based on helping vulnerable people there should also be a responsibility to go back and check. Make changes. Address misconceptions.
Now if you are in it for a quick buck. To exploit those people, thats a different story. Just 1 more con. But i hope thats not what this is.
MWD wrote the book the way she did for a reason. It wasn't to exploit people. It was, I think at least, that she understood that if she included exceptions about abuse and addiction that people would take those paragraphs and over-apply them to their situations to the point of voiding out the entire book.
The problem with the 'abuse and addiction and cheating' thing is that when a marriage is crap both partners are at their worst. They are so full of pain and resentment they are well beyond their ability to cope. In these circumstances people do things they normally wouldn't. How can you tell if it's temporary or chronic behavior? The only way is to get beyond the worst to see if things come around.
Many marriages have survived drug use or alcoholism, adultery, and hurtful behavior. The whole idea of DB is to end the dysfunctional dynamic and stop hurting each other, get better as an individual, and then see what develops. From a strong healthy place of detachment maybe the LBS prefers accepting some destructive behavior versus getting a divorce. Maybe the partner, finding themselves no longer in a retaliatory battle, changes in some positive ways. Besides, the LBS was going to spend time grieving and detaching and growing whether they do it in the M or out of it.
I do agree that our culture is moving away from this mentality and going to a more "They're the problem, here's proof, I deserve better" mindset. This is exactly why she wrote the book.
I agree that addicts, adulterers, and liars have that mentality Zues. The mentality of "they r the problem i deserve better"
I will tell you, i would never ever cheat on my partner. I would not have the potential to inflict that kind of harm. I would never lie about money and secretly withdraw enough money to buy a home while my child was living with my in laws. I would not have the potential for that type of thievery and that type of potential.
I think where you and i disagree is that i believe that individuals are who they are and make decisions based on who they are.
I really believe once a cheater always a cheater. Once an addict always an addict, once a deceiver always a deceiver.
I think that, because i would not make those choices. I have them but would not make them. I never did, never will. Its who i am at the core.
Lets say a man took his ex wife back who cheated. He brought her to an island with no other men. And she never cheated again. Marriage might be better. But at the core she is still a cheater.
There is a weakness and inherent selfishness in them at the core. Theres a difference between people that pull the trigger and people that dont.
I think a person that truly changes is really really rare.
I honestly believe that encouraging reconciliation with these types of people is a short term solution and irresponsible. Its like putting a band aide over a major wound. Its like letting a sociopathic child molester back to teach kindergarten.
I think band aides and short term solutions are bigger problems with our society.
I think your beliefs about marriage would be better served by harsher penalties on people that do walk away from their families. Like look at it case by case.
Why should a stay at home wife that cheats on her husband get a permanent meal ticket, paid legal expenses, and custody of kids? Why is a man that walks away from his wife and kids only responsible for a small fraction of support ?
Why does our legal system and society support and protect F.ups? To me thats the real problem.
I think it is dangerous and short sighted and irresponsible to not address abuse. The people buying those books are usually people like us anyway.
I am a health care worker. Lets say i came up with a great exercise program amd wrote a book about it. But realized these exercises were actually harming a fairly large population of people who bought on to my program. Maybe its because i left out a section, or maybe they were misinterpreting it. Maybe the population that bought it were more vulnerable because they were acute injury or hospitilization.
Wouldnt it be a good idea for me to follow through with that and address that?
We are responsible for everything we put out in the universe, no?
Society (and marriage) fails because no one is responsible amd because no one is held responsible. We are not responsible for our families, our partners, our kids. Not for our committmemts either. And that is dangerous.
Responsibility is what is needed in our society. Serious reflection, and depth of all aspects of an issue. Not just the presentation of one sided issues.
Psychologists know that catch phrases sell. They get politicians elected. They get books sold. But it is either irresponsible from people that you would hope know better, ignorance, or about the buck.
So today is my 3 year anniversary of BD.
Im not sure i want to get into the back ground because it would involve a story specific and identifiable.
But all i will say is that my ex MIL is a hypocritical, phony, obnoxious, annoying, codependent, ahole.
But all i will say is that my ex MIL is a hypocritical, phony, obnoxious, annoying, codependent, ahole.
JujuB,
Is it possible that we have the same MIL?
So i had some issues with son. Texted ex about it and his responses and advise was fair, rational, valid amd comforting.
Yet he is the mam that left me and my son. He lied or deflected regarding our marital finances.
I am having trouble with this. Cause hes supposed to be a villain. Yet he is not as bad or as cruel as a lot of the other waywards.
He was whem he was leaving and before he left. But not now.
I feel thrown off. And dont understand why.
Maybe hes happy now. He got his way. Doesnt have to be married to me anymore. Thats all he wanted. Was to get away from me.
He still seems to have financial issues though.. has to give me money a little at a time, yet earns a lot, has a new luxury car and lives with his mom (i think) so something off.
So howncan he be nice, yet left me. Was i that bad of a person at the core?
No, JujuB, it's not you. And if he has a new luxury car he can afford to pay you on time. Get a court order if you need to. Don't let him make his financial problems into yours. I insisted on automatic withdrawals for my alimony aim my divorce and it's been the best thing ever.
Just be grateful he was able to behave as a responsible parent for one moment. I WZiSH I could speak to my ex about our adult children's issues but he's no help at all, so I don't involve him.
Not all villains come with horns and sinister angry grins.
Some come guised as snakes. Others put babies in prison and smile while they do it.
They come in business suits too.
Shivers at the thoughts
V
Vanilla, i am sick about what is going on here. I dont know how this is legal. To me it sounds like kidnapping.
Thanks kml. Child support and afterschool care are paid on time. Just not the medical/extracurriculars. Its almost that old pattern, where i feel guilty for asking him to pay. He presents like this poor guy that cant keep up with his bills.
Hi is against international law, and the US signed up to the rights of the child. OK so the way round it is to pull out. How did you guys choose this president? Trample (sic) over children's rights.
He should pay, this is for your child and it's not optional.
V
The current climate is really scary vanilla. I dont ubderstand how this stuff is going on.
Law suits have become the only means of checks and balances left in out country.
Thanks kml and vanilla. Regarding ex, he does pay for child support and day care on time. Its the extra curriculars and medical that he stalls on. Its annoying. It seems that he lives pay check to pay check, so extra expenses becomes a challenge. Im the first to say there is no reason for him to live pay check to pay check with his salary and free living arrangements.
So changing the subject, i have been dating someone for 10 months now. I trusted him because he has a similar background to me. Single dad with older child now. Mother had a lot of issues.
But i am getting a sense that he is compartmemtalizing my son amd i. Like i notice that when i invite him to do things with son and i, it rarely happens.something comes up. And he doesnt make an effort to arrange things for the 3 of us either.
The first 6 to 7 months i did not want to introduce my son to someone i was dating.
But then i thought it was time. So far i think the 2 of them might have met up a total of 2 times.
This is not something i would sign up for and i dont want to waste my time.
I have hinted and have extended invites. I dont want this turning into another situation with my ex and i, in which me and son get rejected.
But right now, because i am feeling that way i feel closed off. Like i dont want to go anywhere with him.
When we first met, he made sure i knew he was ok with me having a young child. He told me he would not have dated me if it was a problem for him. He even bought son birthday presents when we were only with each other for a month.
But right now there are no actions. I am feeling like he put his best foot forward but not sure the other is so hot.
Kind of like giving a waitress in arestaurant you frequent regularly a really nice tip the first visit and then just nornal or subpar tips later one.
Any thoughts?
I think you should simply talk to him about it.
I personally feel that you shouldn't involve your child with someone unless you are SURE that this is a relationship leading to something long term (i.e. Marriage). Maybe an introduction once or twice at this stage just to make sure he is not a jerk with your kid, but otherwise- no. Your child doesn't need the heartache of loss if this relationship doesn't last. Maybe he feels the same? Ask him.
Hi kml
I would not waste my time in a relationship unless i thought there was long term potential. I am looking for a blending of families. Not 2 people living separatly and dating every other weekend.
I made this very clear in the beginning and he indicated that he is looking for similar, or i would have never continued dating him.
I would rather be by myself then have a casual relationship without a blending of families.
I waited 6 months before introducing him to son and that was in a group setting.
They had 1 other short walk together and then another group setting.
I have my son all week and every other weekend. So my son and i come as a package. I like it when his daughtwr is around. And i understand that not every guy wamts to deal with another mans kid. But like i said, i dont want to date someone if they feel like that.
Is 10 months too early to determine this? I would think at this point he would want to start forming a relationship withbmy som amd i or else it camt possobly develop going on the way it is.
I am definitly shutting down and unable to open up my "heart" with him. Which makes it impossible to develop a healthy relationship. I need to make sure all my decsiobs keep my son first.
Heres the funny thing. Men tend to pursue womem that shut down or are not available. I had so many single guy friends of friends that wanted to date me when i was still obsessed with ex. Sometimes i hate men for this. (No offense to the guys here)
Is 10 months too early to determine this? I would think at this point he would want to start forming a relationship withbmy som amd i or else it camt possobly develop going on the way it is.
Depending on the amount of time they have spent together I would think he would want to spend time together as a potential family doing things. So I would agree.
I automatically assume that when I am dating woman with children that it would be a package deal.
Every man is different but I guess you will find out what his intentions are.
My EW introduced my girls to her BF last week and she made some comment to me that she doubted he would be coming to their basketball or soccer games to watch them play because they aren't his kids. My initial reaction was WTF????? If he is really into you and loves you then he should want to be a part of their lives.
It was mind blowing........but again, what are the intentions????
are you spending time with his daughter but he isn't spending time with your son?
I do believe it is time for a direct talk with him. I tend to drop the hints, and get upset when I don't get the response I want, then I realize, I just need to be very direct with my communication.
Maybe the two of you just need to get on the same page.
I think 10 months is a little early for playing happy families. Perhaps you two need more dating time FIRST.
You are seeking a life partner not just a family.
And guys ask you out or show interest when you are unavailable because you are unavailable. They don't really want a gf. So they aren't truly prospects.
V
You might be right vanilla. It might be too early, but then why am i giving him exclusivity?
Where i live, there are tons of single guys. I have talked to male patients close to my age that tell me how hard it is to find a normal woman. I am relatively normal, so am seen as a good catch for someone my age.
We both agreed that it is hard to get to know someone when you are dating a lot of people at the same time. But maybe i was wrong. I was coming from a mindset of loyalty and relationships when i met him.
Maybe i should have just dated more and built friendships? I would not sleep with someone unless i thought long term potential and loyalty though.
I dont know. Maybe im rushing things.
I kind of feel how joe does though. Or thats the kind of guy i would want.
Maybe im being unrealistic?
No just normal dating stuff.
V
There's a DIFFERENCE between someone being potential relationship material (obviously if you're interested in a relationship you should weed out the losers and the Love Avoidants and such) and being IN a relationship that has PROGRESSED to the point where you really believe you will end up married or permanent life partners.
Many people date a likely prospect for a couple of years before figuring out they're not really meant to marry. That's what the whole dating process is about - getting to know the other person. Most people would suggest you should date someone for at least two years before marrying - that's because it can take that long to really get to know someone.
Read Ginger's old posts - she was dating a guy she was really into, involved her daughter after a few months, thought everything was great - then he bailed on the relationship and her daughter really missed him. You don't want your son to suffer unnecessary pain of loss of a relationship with this guy. So unless you're sure that this is definitely heading towards a long term relationship I would wait.
But ask HIM - he might tell you he feels the way I do - and that would be a good and responsible thing. Or he might tell you he's not so sure your relationship will make it at all - at least you'd have an answer then.
Kml, thats a good point. Maybe im rushing things, and i certainly dont want son to be hurt or feel rejection if things dont work out.
I dont think he is thinking that way though. He offered to babysit for me 4 to 5 months in when i had an difficult situation. In the beginning he also talked about setting up video games systems up for him to play. I never took him up on it cause i thought it was too early.
So im just worried that his true colors are showing now. That he is not who he seemed like in the beginning. That i saw something thats not really there, bit i wanted it to be there.
This was my issue with ex. Ex avoided spending time with me and son. Its one thing i do not want to repeat.
So what if hes like that too? I want to know and avoid that now. And i know he has no obligation torwards my son. But i dont want to waste time on someone that does not like my son either.
If i wait another year and i dont like their relationship, thats a lot of time i wasted on someone.
It is better to take your time and if you have no future with NG then walk away than to rush it and make a further mistake.
It's far to early for either of you to be all in. And it's not ok for the kids to get attached. To me it seems like NG is taking it slow.
Seems sensible to me.
V
Im feeling a bit deceived. I feel like its common for men to come on strong in the beginning, to get a females attention, eliminate competition and then change the game. Or back down.
Had he been going slow in the beginning,.i would have dated other guys as well.
Emotionally, im feeling detached. We have an upcoming trip together and my hearts just not in it right now. He is taking me away, which is nice. But this was planned when we first started dating. Which shows im not making this up. that he came on full blown relationship in the beginning.
So yeah, its better not to involve son at this point.
I dont feel like making a strong effort though any more. I notice on the weekends son is with dad, im the one initiating tall about plans. Like its assumed that we will hang out, but hes not bringing it up. That puts me in role of pursuer or organizer. I dont know.
Im pretty confident that he likes me though. Its not that.
Hey JujuB
I'm not an advocate for children meeting the people their parents are seeing too soon. I have seen too many children in my work, who it just hasn't worked for.
But I am also not an advocate for wasting time on people who have no interest in pursing the same type of relationship I am looking for.
Just because you may talk to your current person about what you want and the type of relationship and person you are looking for doesn't mean you are rushing. You are not saying that he is that person, and you are not saying that your current relationship. You gaging your are exploring and determining if this person is worthy of your time.
10 months is long enough commitment to exclusivity to start a conversation about what the next bit looks like to you. Just by raising and exploring what type of relationship and partner you are looking for doesn't mean you are asking the man in your life to provide that tomorrow, or next week, you are only asking, is he capable; does he want to and/or what the stepping stones or pathway there might look like to get there. Part of dating exclusively is having this conversations. If your person is not willing to explore these things, then your exclusivity is not required. if that means dating him without sex or not dating him at all. Then all good.
Your withdrawal from him sounds like resentment disappointment and expectation. These are toxic to any relationship. My thoughts are that you can either end the relationship slowly by the building up of these feelings over time or be honest about what you want for your future to look like, which is having someone who is interested in growing a relationship with you and your son. One way definitely will kill any potential this relationship has. If talking honestly and openly and respectfully with minimal expectation and no ultimatum, ends a relationship then so be it. You gave the relationship your best self and it didn't come together.
All relationships are negotiations. My current partner and I had different time scales for when his children would know about me and when they would meet me. There were some tense conversations, and just because they were tense and upsetting, they didn't end the relationship, but provided a shared understanding about where his children were in his life and in the context of his relationship with me. Some of my expectations needed to change and he needed to know what I felt and what accommodations needed to be made. These conversations grew our relationship and communication and showed that we could problem solve together. It convinced me he was worthy of investing my time and life.
The other thing JujuB, this is your relationship with this man. Not mine, not anyone else's. What works for V and what works for me, doesn't mean it will work for you. You set the terms, be your own reference point. Figure out the type of relationship you want and ask for it. And just because you ask doesn't mean you will get it, or that you will get in the timeframe you want. The man you are seeing has is own wants, needs and expectations, he has the right as you do to say, ah i'm not able to give you that right now , but I can given you a, b or c. Or I don't think I can give you them at all. Then you can make an informed decision as can he. Don't deprive yourself and him, the information to make informed decisions about your life and his.
JujuB you haven't done all the work you have not to learn how to communicate with a partner. I have found that when there is mutually agreed values and goals and ways of communicating, you don't have the patterns of distance and pursuer and other dynamics, you have instead a knowing and acceptance of the human being you choose to be in relationship with and commitment to working things through.
JujuB set the tone for the relationship you want with this person. He may surprise you and step up. Or he may not and you move on to the possibility of getting what you are looking for somewhere else.
Just my two cents JujuB.
Here for you always.
Lots of Love JellyB xxx
I think i worry that communicating this to him will be a way of emotionally black mailing him. I dont want it to put him in a position in which he is doing something he doesnt want to do. I dont want him to feel the need to make up excuses to back out of spending time with son and i which is what i feel like he is doing. I know he likes me.
I think a big issue for me is feeling like my son is being rejected.
As you know, my son is adhd and there has been some concern that he is on the spectrum. Recent neurologists, and neuropsychologists think its more of an adhd issue not autism...but im talking real adhd not just a discipline issue that people typically write it off as. My son also has iq scores that would qualify him for mensa. You would think that would be a good thing. But it adds a different component to the behavior and discipline. His social and emotional maturity does not match his academic ability. And we struggle with his behavior. He has no problems making friends. He is extremely out going and fun. But he cant keep them.
When my ex first left, a lot of my family and my best friend told me its cause he couldnt handle our son.
I think i was having trouble handling son, and ex just didnt have it in him to deal on a daily basis.
My ex mil initially doted on my son. Once i got that autism diagnosis she moved to another state for half the year and she is not as available to spend time with son. This could just be coincidental, but i notice this. She barely sees him anymore, yet recently told me she cant help with baby sitting for a bunch of weeks. (Although she will help for other weeks) He is her only grandchild.
So him not wanting to hang out with both me and my son hits me big time. He hasnt admitted it. I dont think he actually could admit to something like that? Could anyone?
Instead i can see him just making excuses, probaby hoping i dont ask him or that i get the hint.
This could all be in my head as well. Maybe im sensitive and seeing sonething thats not there. Or expecting too much too early.
Right now, im just looking at actions or lack there of.
Jelly, a lot of women post and make it clear on the on line dating sites that they are not looking for a father for their kids.
But i guess i am looking for that. I want someone that will love my son.
I know you worry for your lovely boy Jujub.
And he is loveable and worthy of love and being understood.
Your history with your ex saw you rejected as a package. To find someone who embraced and loved you both, is so meaningful to you. It makes sense.
Thanks jelly. You worded what im thinking perfectly.
I will take it day by day. Keep these thoughts in the back of my head and just observe a bit longer. See how things go.
Maybe bring up a casual conversation to see how he thinks.
I often live in my own head as you know.
So just an update regarding ng... the son situation does not seem to be an issue. His view of our future does not seem to be an issue. He is looking long term, which i like.
But this past weekend was a tough one for me. I am having doubts. I could be fault finding. But i dont think so.
I dont like how he communicates with me. When he is stressed he talks to me like im his teenager or a buddy. And i feel insulted and i could see that if i respond all the time, it will be an endless cycle of bickering. My personality can only keep cool for a bit. And then i snap. Which i did.
If it goes beyond snapping, i have a potential for seriously damaging verbal lashes, because i will get to the heart of someones weakness.
It will not be banter, which is something he seems to enjoy.
An example so you know what im talking about..
me:"how did you sleep"
Him: "not good. Too much noise. Plus YOU left the curtains Open and the lights were Glaring"
Me: silence (wanting to avoid the argument of, why was i responsible for closing the curtain? Was i even the one that opened it. If you saw it open, why not just close it? Why are you incapable of any type of self awareness? Why do you look to blame every one else but you)
This was after him making a big deal that i went to sit on one particular bench that was further away and had less people on it then the one he was planning on going to.... such a small and insignificant thing, that he called me out on. Insinuating it was a ditzy choice in bench (it wasnt. Had less clutter and people around it to navigate with luggage). BUT WHAT BOTHERED ME, IS WHY DO YOU WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT A BENCH?? Why bring it up. Why criticize me for something that is just negligible. I mean who cares? Are you really that bothered by my choice in where to sit? Its only an extra 10 feet away.
I dont know if its just that obnoxious new york culture..(think my cousin vinnie) but i have just been through years of fighting and arguments and stress. I dont want to battle.
I dont think he means to belittle, but for me i see the dynamic and pattern and just dont want that. It is tiresome to me at this point. The constant complaining and negativity.
I found myself doing a lot of comparing of him to my ex. I actually missed my ex. I feel very bad that my ex viewed my criticisms as i am viewing ngs criticisms now. When we were younger, i was not good at picking my battles with ex.
And my ex just wanted to avoid the banter. My ex, did not call me out for things or look for that type of argument.
I felt so guilty i was crying about how i treated him (pre BD).
I just dont think i want to deal.
I feel like im better off alone.
That type of bickering is for couples that are together 10 years and with kids. Not for a couple on their first trip together. If this is what its like now, when he barely sees me what will it be like in the future?
What do i even say?
I have this incredible need to just get away. But ending things will be hard.
I dont want to be impulsive either. We have upcoming plans i feel i cant cancel on. But unsure of how to get through them.
He is treating you like a guy mate when he interacts this way.
Not every guy is easy going ju. Are you sure this isn't just comfort zone stuff?
Ie unfamiliar?
It might be better to tease back or be humorous about it.
So 'I like this seat better, I get you all to myself
Oh those curtains have my name on them?
If after this you are convinced it's not for you, then explain and move on.
You are still dating at this stage.
V
Thanks v. Yes. Thats his personality. I can actually hear him saying "those curtains have my name on them?"
And i can see him and his daughter engaging in a back and forth banter trying to one up each other on crudeness.
So the intention might not be to belittle. But that's not my personality.
I dont know if its a case of I need to lighten up, or hes belittling me when he is in a stressful or unknown environment to ease his own feelings of inferiority.
I cant tell. I have the fdeling it was the later, since it occurred when we were bith sleep deprived and catching a super early flight.
It might be both ju.
Instead of a asking why. Try saying what can I do to change my reaction?
Then when you get home consider. How can I lighten up?
How can I approach finding out if this is a stress reaction.
V
I hate that word try. Let me rephrase ask what can I do to lighten up and how can I change my emotional state when this happens again?
V
Im just not sure if its something i want. I dont find it fun banter. I found it grating and i am consiously thinking, "if i do something stupid, go the wrong way in an airport i dont know, hes gonna call me out on that"
(You know how bad i am am with directions)
It just doesnt evoke warm feelings. It undermines me and now my guard is up. Its not playful. It just makes it adversarial and i have had enough adversary to last a lifetime.
Im tired. I think i went foe him cause of morals without caring enough about whether our personalities jive.
You are right though. We are only dating.
I owe him honesty. I owe him respect. But wwe are not married.
I feel like im a happier and better person when im not in a relationship. Im more motivated, in better shape, take care of myself better, more fun loving, more flirtacious, I feel more hope. The quest to attract someone. Even the unknown person that you might encounter.
Now what is it about being in a relationship that changes all of that for me? Why do i suddenly feel like im in a Richard Yates novel?
Maybe its because i am settled into reality? As opposed to the fantasy and hope of the unknown? The reality being that people are not always as you hope. There is give and take. Flaws. Disappointment.
I guess a good thing is that sexual needs are met when you have a relationship. But maybe thats why the proverbial fatness developes. You no longer have to work for those needs.
But a divorced person in a relationship. Its a different dynamic. You dont have kids together to work for. You dont have a life together. Investments. Whats the real point?
The point is companionship, someone having your back.
But you have to figure out, is this guy an insensitive jerk or are you bringing some past history into this relationship?
It takes time to get to know someone. But yeah - someone who is going to bicker with you over which bench you sit on may not be a match.
I'm a lot older than you, and I do question right now how much I want in a relationship. After the fiasco last year with the bipolar ex boyfriend I didn't date at all for half a year, then I only dated a safely Love Avoidant friend from the past once a month or so.
Now he's disappeared and I finally felt ready to date again. Or thought I was - now that I'm dating a very sweet man who is really into me I find I'm having trouble matching his enthusiasm. Maybe I'm just becoming a tad Love Avoidant myself.
But you're much younger and I don't think you should give up on love and companionship. But dating is about finding out who that other person is; if you're finding out he's irritable this early in the relationship , don't ignore the red flags.
Deep down, hes not a jerk. It seems like he follows a good moral compass. Like he would be loyal. He would work hard for his family. Hes not the type to leave to go find happiness.
Hes blue collar and talks to me like a trucker though, which i dont like. What woman wants to hear "are you an ahole? We gotta get on line now" when they are on vacation. Thats his language how he talks to family, to his best friend.
I am not like that at all. If i was calling someone an ahole, its because i have deep anger, hatred, and resentment for them.
I found that comment really belittling and it puts me in a posituon where i have to call him out on it and be insulting so as not to look like his b.tch. hence the banter.
Thats just not my personality. Im more feminine. And i dont want to feel on. Like i have to be prepared for a comeback with someone on a daily basis. It wont feel humorous to me. It will feel adversarial.
And this is who he is.
So its not just morals. You jave to be compatible with some one as well i guess.
Well if you truly believe this is just a speaking style and not a negativity problem, why not discuss it with him? His response will tell you a lot.
Hi Juju, I was interested to read your recent posts and sorry too, that you've hit a bit of a bend in the road with this guy. I've been seeing a guy for four or five months now and, whilst things are largely good, I too have struggled with navigating some of the issues in a new relationship.
Things I try to do now that I didn't do before (in my marriage.) I try to be pretty direct and pleasant about where I'm at. If something isn't working for me, or I don't like it, I normally say so. Rather than withdrawing my affection or company - I try and say what's on my mind. I have to say I find it pretty excruciating at times to do that - and so does he I think - but he's still here and so am I.
I can see that what you describe might feel pretty wearing. I could imagine my stepson saying the curtain thing. Like it was my responsibility - who knew??? So, rather than bicker - which is tempting when we feel got at - I might try to say - in a pleasant and non-argumentative tone - You're welcome to close the curtains if the light's disturbing you. Or - please don't call me that - I don't like it (A-hole) - pleasant and firm.
Reading co-dependant no more helped me with a couple of questions. Does this work for me? And - What do I need to do to look after myself in this situation?
Again, with your son, a direct conversation may be good - You haven't initiated spending any time with S, since we last did X. Are you feeling okay about us all spending time together?
I certainly try not to overthink things these days - in truth (and I've been up front about this too) I'm not really looking to marry, share finances or even cohabit. And that does take off some pressure - if things don't work out - and I would be sad - we would stop seeing each other and I would be back where I was six months ago. And there would be some good and some not so good things about that - but I don't fear it...
Anyway, I hope there might be something in there that could be of use & I hope things unfold positively for you Juju. Xx
I will have to kml. Im cooling down a bit. I did mention it in a lighter way earlier on and he didnt get the hint.
Your right though. It could be a negativity issue, which is something i have worked so hard on. So as im more positive, ive learned what its like to deal with someones negativity. Talk about karma. I am really feeling sick, that i could have been like that with my ex. Not the cursing or anything. But the criticism amd resentment for everything. It makes me feel really really bad. I justify it as "ex was ridiculous. His habits were ridiculous" but ng is saying to hinself "shes ridiculous. Why is she always going the wrong way etc. "
I understand now (since my ex left me) that its about supporting and respecting each other regardless of who is fing up.
I bet if i was more like that with my ex, he wpuld have come to me with the finanical and addiction issues. Or maybe there would have neen no addiction issues.
I feel sad that i am a better person for other men now. But could have been for ex.
Whats happening with NG is im pissed, so distanced and not wanting to make an effort. I feel like i have 1 foot out the door right now. Both me and NG grew up in similar areas. The pre gentrified boroughs of NY. Had parents with similar cultures and backgrounds. Wonder if thats where that cynicism, and negativity develop.
JujuB, I wonder if we live in the same city but I know we are not supposed to discuss that here. I checked out your threads a little bit after seeing your reply to something I wrote in MLC. We are taking a completely different approach to our marriage crises but I just wanted to send you a really big hug.
Ju if it's not right have the courage to walk away.
It's dating at this stage. Just dating.
You can really like someone but them not be right for you. Just right for now. And that's ok.
V
I know V. I think im building up to that.
I just wanted a family man so bad. I want a family so bad. I ignored qualities that i dont like for that security and potential.
I didnt have a family with ex and i just wanted one. Like my parents had. This guy seemed to want that too. And i figure thats half the battle. Finding someone that wants what i want. A lot of people dont.
But i cant handle the complaining and yelling and negativity regarding everything that annoys him. I dont want that.
Gerda, thank you for posting. I have been kind of transparent about where i live, so we might very well be neighbors.
When i first signed on here as Julie in 2015, i desperatly wanted to salvage my marriage. But i was very angry.
I remember Zues asked me the question of when is it ok to abandon a marriage. Even early on I responded...
1. If there was harm or endangerment to myself or my child
2. If there was cheating.
Now "harm" is a broad term. Many waywards like to claim they are harmed by all the psychological abuse we LBS put them through over the years. Or they argue that the children are happier if the parents are happier. I know many of us endure a lot of true abuse and gaslighting because we dont want to play that card.
Cheating is a pretty black and white boundary though.
In my case, my ex left. Didnt want to be married to me anymore. He was actually raised as a christian. He was enabled by his mom who was a devote christian. She actually told me "people get divorced now. Its not how it was when i was young" I was not raised with religion. Yet I upheld stronger beliefs in marriage. Go figure.
I have much respect for the important roles marriage and family plays in most religious instititions.
I think there are enough clear cut boundaries, that many religious institutions recognize as well, that allow for us to let go of our marriages. Cheating for one, and then theres abandonment.
To endure any type of relationship with someone that is cheating is harmful to your soul. There is nothing noble about that. I think its ok to love your spouse, or your enemy but its more important to love yourself. No? So yeah, we can still love them. I will always love my ex. Im not suggesting that we burn them at the stake.
But allowing them to take advantage based on the argument of unconditional love is another story.
More importantly,I think that not providing them with strong consequences (that are also fair and not vindictive in nature) for their actions is a disservice to god. Because without consequences, how do they grow spiritually and learn?
And by consequences, im not saying its our jobs to punish...im saying its our jobs to say "no. I am not going to keep allowing myself to be hurt from you any more"
Thank you sotto... the son thing is no longer an issue. I dont even know if i want son around him.
My son is adhd and he is not always easy to discipline. The last thing i want is for him to witness me being undermined.
Its little things. Like in the airport i was going the wrong way, and we were both looking for car rental. I thought people with badges were airport staff (they werent) and asked for directions and he got short with me for asking the wrong people.
I feel like thusbwqs our first trip away. My actions shouldnt annoy soneone so much. And if they do, keep it to your self.
I am a firm believer in positive reinforcement for kids. I know its not always possible. And NG has a teenager, which is totally different.
I hear how he yells and complains about his daughter. And i think,"oh god. I do the same stuff she does" (Forget to water plants, forget my laundry in the dryer) and then i think, i dont want my son to be constantly criticized. He already gets into enough trouble at school as it is.
He just always seems angry.
And i know how that comes out hearing it from me! I write a bit differently then i am. But IRL, im the person my boss gives the difficult patients to. I am told by everyone..other parents, my mom, my best friend..how patient amd easy going i am. I dont look for fights ir drama.
I hear how he yells and complains about his daughter. And i think,"oh god. I do the same stuff she does" (Forget to water plants, forget my laundry in the dryer) and then i think, i dont want my son to be constantly criticized. He already gets into enough trouble at school as it is.
He just always seems angry.
I think you have your answer then. He doesn't sound like a good match. Don't let your eagerness to be part of a "family" make you lose sight of whether this guy is a good match for you.
I like to call dating a detective job. It's our job to find out about this person and see if they really are right for us. (Now bear in mind, I blew that job with my last boyfriend, but he was a pretty smooth liar).
For instance - I've just started dating a new guy. He SEEMS nice and very sweet. But I am still reserving judgment until I learn more about him. I can already see he has some mild OCD issues very similar to exBF (like getting me a napkin when I'm eating potato chips - not a big deal but a sign of HIS discomfort with my fingers being greasy, not mine). I've also seen some mild evidence of him being bothered by other drivers - could that signal an underlying tendency towards irritability that just isn't expressing itself towards me yet in the honeymoon period? These are minor things but I'm definitely keeping my antennae up until I can learn more about his character (AND his finances - at 62 it's pretty important to me that a man be able to live within his means and fund his own expenses in retirement. I'm not saying a guy has to be rich - just able to live happily within what he's got and not be a drain on my finances in any way. This guy was a good earner in the past but I think a bit of a spender too, so it remains to be seen if he will be financially stable and responsible about retirement. )
I hear ya kml.
I am not in a good financial position. And that worried me regarding men accepting me or wanting to buuld a future with me.
Why would someone want to take me and my son on?
In my case. I honestly did nothing wrong. I have always been a saver. I went to school, earn a decent living in the health care profession. I have job stability. We just never built equity cause ex had some secret expensive habits.
Problem is where i live, you cant really survive on 1 income. Its even hard to survive on 2. Im in a situation similar to gingers in which i cant move away.
I need my parents to baby sit when i work and my son meeds a good school district. (You get extremes here) and with renting i am just throwing my money away. Housing keeps going up. Where i live starter homes are about 500 and in need ofntons of work. Taxes start at 10 grand a year.
I just feel stuck and depressed.
Well, first of all, you're much younger than I am and have lots of time to change your financial situation. I don't think someone your age would consider you to be a financial issue (after all, you have a good career) unless you are drowning in debt (and even then, unfortunately, so are many other people).
As for homebuying - be careful about feeling like you HAVE to buy a home. There are online calculators that can tell you whether buying or renting is a better idea in your area at this time. If you WERE to consider buying, I'd recommend buying a home that you can get a roommate into to help with costs, or, since your parents are close, consider something for multi-generational living? (I bought a 4 bedroom house after my divorce, which seemed huge at the time but I am so glad I did, as my mom and 2 of my 3 sons live with me now.)
Also - you're young and newly single, there's no telling where you might be in a couple of years in terms of a relationship, so I wouldn't buy anything that couldn't be converted to a rental in a down market if you ended up marrying again.
As for getting by on your current salary - check out The Tightwad Gazette books by Dacyzyn and also the Mr. Money Mustache website. They're both very inspiring and most people have more fat in their budgets than they realize.
Thanks kml. I have no debt. Very small savings. But being a home owner isnt a reality.
Multi generational home with my parents is an option, but that means i live their forever.
A multigenerational home with a friend might be an option but even that would be a struggle. But at least a struggle with an asset.
I need to look at those books.thanks
While I was away, I was reading your posting and really thinking about it.
I know how important it is to you to have someone with strong values. But there are values that extend upon believing in monogamy and not leaving your family. Kindness and they way you treat people I think are amongst some of the most important values. If you feel he is not treating you kindly and respectfully, well, then he lacks those values.
I was with my ex for about 9 years and he devalued me often. I couldn't do anything right in his eyes, I did everything to avoid his criticism and I became resentful. I now watch it happen to my poor daughter. I picked her up from her dad's one day and he asked if I was going to CVS if I could have D10 pick up a birthday card for her grandmother. As we are in the store, she is looking at cards and told me she was scared she was going to get the wrong one because daddy never approves of anything she choses. I know this as a fact. I lived it.
I can only tell by what you write here about the guy, as I do not know him. But just because he has family values, doesn't mean he has all values. ANd it is ok for you to want more compatibility and respect from a partner. You aren't married to him, you are dating, and this is where you find out if you want to continue to seriousness. Because I know that you are a fiercely loyal person and you have many values and morals, and I don't know that if you got to living together or marriage, you wouldn't leave because you are an amazingly loyal and moral woman. So I would hate to see you in that position. Especially the one where you aren't comfortable in your skin and walking on eggshells and doubting yourself.
because just as you are, you are an incredible woman and mother and you should carry that with pride.
Thank you ginger.
I ended up sending him a text and it just went really bad. I felt like he was missing the picture.
He seemed to focus on the fact that i messed up by sitting on the bench which he claimed was 30 feet away, i estimated at 10 feet instead of waiting for him, that i didnt work as a helpful member of the team with him because i asked the wrong people for directions...
He didnt hear me saying that i dont want to argue and justify myself for sitting on a bench or asking the wrong for directions.. that the point was that he talked down to me.
I felt like he was deflecting and changing the argument to the things that upset him enough to get snarky.
I think at 10 months on a romantic trip, to get snarky and annoyed with me is a huge red flag.
He is treating you as if you were a guy mate. Not a girlfriend.
As if you were a male team competitor.
Likely he hasn't learned how to relate to women.
V
Juju, reminds me of a gal I went out with after my exw and I split up. This girl and I went out on a few dates, had fun together and she was dying to go up to these ice caves for a night. It's a drive, so we were going to just get a hotel room when we got there and drive back the next day. It was a little too soon to really do a trip like this, we were still at the getting to know you stage in our relationship. I figured having 4 or 5 hours in the car could be a great time to get to know one another better...I was wrong. By the time we got to the hotel, I wanted to run. She was very opinionated on everything that you could be. Gone was the quiet shy girl that I had found endearing and instead I was with a person who was essentially all the hosts of the View rolled into one.
I spent that day, night and car ride home in shock. I think she sensed it wasn't a good fit either, we talked a few times after we got back but drifted apart.
To me, what happens often, especially when people are getting out of a long term relationship without their say, we settle. Or we try to fluff up whomever comes around because we do not know how to be alone. It is a scary feeling to be single when you don't want to be. Frankly, I have been there. It's like we have a void that we are trying to fill and the only way we know how is to put someone else into that void, regardless of compatibility. Either way, sorry to hear about it. Hope you are doing well otherwise.
Some good stuff being said here, as usual. I wouldn't look at the lack of texting as a bad thing, personally I see it as a positive. After my small toe dipping into dating I realized anything I wanted in the future wouldn't involve heavy texting. I enjoy my independence too much and have too much going on to be that involved in my phone. If I text with someone too much it also takes away the excitement of getting to know them in person, which I prefer. I get it can feel like a precursor to them not being interested, but try to flip the script in your head and realize that's not the only meaning, sometimes it's just them feeling things out and living their life. Give him time and let things play out naturally. there's no rush to this
My above post was for gingers thread ^^ not sure why it posted here :$
Anyway, juju, I'd the situation with this guy doesn't feel right, then maybe it's not. You have a right to say it's not for you and to move on. I can see the lure to be in a relationship especially with someone who you see has the family morals you are searching for. As others have said there are other things to consider and things that are important for a relationship. It mgihr be unreasonable to expect everything to be perfect but you don't have to let go of everything else because he checks off one category either. It takes time to really who someone is during dating and if they're a match or not. You've both been together a while and maybe the things that don't match are starting to come out. Either way do what feels right for you, I hope you find some clarity soon, either way
Thanks fogg and eye tie.
Eye tie, that is perfect wording. And i am afraid i am "fluffing up someone" because i want a relationship.
I think he is like that too. Like he wont date someone horrible, but will make it work woth someone cause he wants a relationship.
He ended up apologizing and saying his intent wasnt to hurt. That he wished i had said something then in the moment instead of simmering and waiting a week, cause i caught him off guard and he had no idea i was mad and had to go back and remember what was being said. And that he felt blind sided and sucker punched by me. And that hes afraid i am gonna hold a grudge and play games.
I said, i need to trust that i can communicate with him and that i feel like he is anput winning the argument and not about listening to my feelings.
Things are ok.I am not very comfortable though.
I have to say, i took a trip with son, and so many little annoying things kept coming up. I realized they are bound to come up whenever you travel cause its new and you are navigating unfamiliar areas. I started thinking, its a good thing he wasnt here cause i made a lot of wrong turns, went to the wrong parking lot that the restaurant was in, forgot my sneakers, my son got ice all over the hallway and i wouldnt want someone getting annoyed and calling me out on it. It was easier to not have some one to answer and to not have soneone to comment or nag.
It also made me look into a very ugly mirror. I was constantly critiquing my ex. Making snide remarks meant to inflict guilt with my ex.
I cried not because of the guy, but because i had put my ex through this. My ex is very intelligent. Perfect math sats type of intelligent. Incredible at directions. But he had trouble getting out of the house. And ugh. I complained and made a big deal. I should have just accepted amd lifted him up. He was accepting of my flaws and never ever put me down. Until BD.
I am pretty intelligent in certain areas, but it takes me a while to process when it comes to directions or in new environments or with emergency situations. (I could not function as a nurse, but make a good PT where i have the luxury of an hour eval and trial and error to problem solve) Im a bit scattered and slow. And ng complained and made a big deal. I dont know if he will again, cause he now knows i wont accept it. But knowing i did this feels bad. And i miss my ex.
I am pretty sure my ex is an addict though amd had been for a while. So he might not have even been there with me to nag me? Maybe he was just going through the motions?
Ju
You keep looping on the ex, until you put him down, stop questioning or rewriting the past you won't move on. The same issues torture your mind and you want to punish and blame yourself as that may give you more control.
You did that which you did, now is not then.
Maybe you need your time to get ready to date, to be really free to make great choices.
V
I dont know why. But after the divorce went through the most important thing in my mind to getting back to normal, was to find a partner.
I didnt recognize it as a loss or death, because he elected to leave me. I had no choice. I might as well be happy. I wanted/want a family unit and this is what was needed. To find someone that wants one as well. Logical?
My ex's mother used to do it alone with my ex when he was a child. (I didnt know the reasons why til later. Ex's dad left for a few years but in addition always just did his own thing) she used to take him on vacation by herself. Was his cubscout den leader all by herself etc.
I used to think, "what a horrible life. How lonely. I would never want a husband like that. Thank god ex is not like that"
Her life was like the worst fate in my eyes. To not have a partner.
Well, i have been taking my son away by myself for the past 2 years. Its difficult. In little ways. Like i cant leave him in the hotel roon if i forget something in the car. He has to come with me. Or i have no one to navigate. He still has to use the ladies room.
We end up arguing like a married couple...(which i have seen in other single parent dynamics and i dont like that)
But its also really nice to not have to consider another persons needs and issues when traveling.
Although ideally, its 2 people traveling with the intention of witnessing the excitement of your child exploring new activities.
For me, i was able to do it as one and it was just super nice to have my little travel companion.
Very different from my child hood though and from the childhood i had thought i would be able to offer my son.
Maybe better in a way? I dont know.
So, i have been having a lot deeper and more frequent depressions. Its probably hormonal. Im not exercising like i used to. So thats part of it.. I cant get organized. I dont have my own space and that is deeply depressing. I just hate people that have the things i dont.. Not all people. Just the people that seem to have things come so easily. .
I thought things would have been better once everything was settled. I dont see a way into a stable financial future, which scares me. Im not sure i want to be in a relationship anymore which is making me feel unconfortable.
People are horrible. I am constantly listening to people make comments regarding my son. On line at the amusement park, my son was getting nuttier then the other kids and the people behind me were talking about what they would do if they have kids etc. So i called them out and said thats easy to say, but you dont pick yoir kids or the conditions they are born with. No matter what kind of consequences are implemented etc... (my son is adhd and not on meds for summer...and meds wear off anyway)
Then again today at the sprinkle park. My son was actually not really doing anything that bad. And im the first to correct it. But these really snobby and obviously wealthy helicoptering moms complained about me to each other. Cause i didnt keep interrupting the kids to ensure that they take turns. Like sometines you have to just let them play. As long as they are not hitting or bullying. I think they were upset cause my son kept running to the water guns first to squirt their kids. And then their kids were complaining its not fair. But their kids were also squirting with the water guns. They were just getting upset cause my son was faster. I almost called the group of mons a bunch of cows. But held back
I realized how much i hate dealing with other people. Their boundaries, their rules are different from mine and i cant stand having to deal. Especially where i live. These women focus on presentation and i have more of the dad personality. We had a play date where the kids were playing with water and the mom started freaking out cause it got on her cement OUTSIDE floor and a little into her cement garage that she just had landscaping clean.
And heres what annoys me. These cows. These women with uptight and nagging personalities all have homes and nice cars and husbands paying for it. Im guessing their husbands pay cause none of them have serious careers. I just hate where i live. And i am mad at myself for never being able to negotiate situations like that for myself. I end up being too nice with men.
.
Why not change where you live then? If you don't like the uptight soccer moms (or society moms?) you're not going to like them any better as your kid grows.
Now of course you can find your tribe anywhere, and maybe you just need to find a way to make friends with more down-to-earth mom's like yourself.
Try your son on phosphatidylserine - one trial showed it worked as well as Ritalin in children and has none of the side effects. There is a prescription form (Vayarin) but may be cheaper as a supplement (I've used the Life Extension product for patients with good results). Summer is a good time to try.
As for focusing on what other people have - you never know what goes on behind doors. Some of those women may not be as lucky as you think. The key to happiness is appreciating what you have. And you are a smart woman - if you want more, you can get it yourself - it may take time and effort but you can. Think outside the box.
Ju
Do you think you set rules for how things should be?
Such as
I should or should have done this or that?
I should live here or there?
My partner should be this or that?
Other people must........
I have to find a partner, have a family ......
Be living with my son in this area
Etc etc
If so what is that mindset doing for you?
V
Very good point vanilla. I have to reflect on that a bit.
It would mean being happy with what im given. Thats a hard one for me to be consistent with. .
Kml, by decree i cant move beyond a certain ratio amd not out of my state. The cheaper places in my region have bad school districts and even the chewper places arent that cheap.
Regarding new guy he apologized but things dont feel good for me. He was worried i would simmer, and he is right. The reason i believe is becaause the way he argued, by justifying his rudeness by telling me all the mistskes i was making to aggravate hin deeply triggered the gaslightiing i went through with ex
. NG had a hard tine simply accepting responsibility. I feel that he guised his justifications with "you need to hear my side and feelings too". Only valid point being that i should have spoken out immediatly. I still dont like how he responded to me. I dobt want to be around him anymore and we have plans that include his daughter later.
If you don't want to be around him, don't. It's okay to break up with someone you've been dating - that's why it's called dating, it's just a trial period to see if you are compatible. I certainly wouldn't want to be with someone who picks on me and then can't own it but still tries to blame me for it.
Also - if by any chance you are somewhat ADD like your son (it's missed a lot in girls because they often don't have the hyperactive part) do you really want to be with someone who is bothered by that???
There is no question that i have asked. Just never diagnosed.
New guy was really cautious with me today. But i just notice that when he doesn't know what he's doing, he likes to yell at others and make it out like they are the ones that don't know what they are doing. He has to quickly comment and make remarks and doesn't understand that no one immediately knows where to go...it takes a bit to get oriented. And why comment on any wrong turn. Its just annoying. I don't feel like he wants to grow. Nor does he have self awareness. I am seeing a lot of arrogance.
And he fights and argues over little things that are kind of pointless. His daughter is a teenager with adhd and i just find myself relating to her and siding with her not him.
We are just dating. This stuff is coming out now more and more to me and i am feeling depressed about breaking up with him. I don't think he is cruel or malicious. And i want a reason to stay with him. But i am not accepting this part of him. It is turning me off. I am wanting to just go it alone and not have to deal with anyone.
When i meet people, i am the type that wants them to feel good. I often play myself down to make others feel good. I never feel the need to win the handshake contest. I think with some people that is not a good route to go. I am not liking who i presented to him.
My ex left me. I don't known if he cheated on me. But he was spending 800 a week while we lived in a apt and then with my parents. That is really really really bad. He was lying and deflecting regarding money. He was not being a good partner. I don't know if its because NGs traits are just not looking good to me, but i am really missing my ex. I am wondering if he has regrets. I am wondering if there really is an addiction. If i vilified him. I am thinking a lot about him when i am with ng and comparing and remember my love for the father of my child.
I'm just deeply depressed and confused.
New Thread:
Coming out of the Fog