Time for a new thread.
Incoming, Fox Holes, and now Clear Skies I don't want to tie up Ginger's thread...how about you creating a new one and we can continue the discussion there? If you'll create your thread, I'll delete our posts here so that we aren't racking up the posting limit on Ginger's thread.
A lot has changed! The Mall in Waldorf is okay and I have no issues w/going there. We have had some gang activities in the county. The county has been growing by leaps and bounds and we now have a lot of really good places to eat and stores are coming up in the world. Not as many pastures and farm lands any more because of the housing "boom" and a lot of people coming to work at Pax. You would be surprised at how much has changed since '14, i.e., even Pax! McDonald's just closed on base.
I need to get back. Have a lot of old friends in the area. The Navy does that to you, though. McD's closed? I must say that I'm not surprised...I do recall a lot of violations there, as was Subway. Do you work on base? Pax has one of the best military golf courses there is. Absolutely loved the area. Not much to do, but that's ok. My son was very young and daughter was just born before we left.
There was (not sure if its still there) an Amish furniture market between California and Waldorf, I believe, but I can't remember the name of if. Brought some furniture there - very well-made stuff. The ex isn't getting that. haha.
Is that trail still around the lake at St. Mary's state park? Used to mountain bike that a lot.
No, I never worked on Base. My father worked there and retired from there. My sister is still working there. I may be a country girl, but the city called to me and that's where I worked.
The "farmer's market" is still there and has expanded quite a bit. Yes, the trail is still at St. Mary's Lake and we now have a new trail where the old railroad tracks ran from Charles down thru our area. It's all paved and everyone is enjoying it. Like I said...things have really changed over the years.
Will bring this from the last thread:
Just thoughts.
Maybe this is directed to those who have experience dealing with adult survivors of childhood abuse.
As ya'll are aware, my ex suffered through a childhood of unimaginable abuse. My ex is a great woman in her own right. Heart of gold. However, as time passed, her demons became too much. As I have said before, when she puts her uniform on its like a light switch - she becomes a totally different person...one that is calm, in control, with no self-doubt whatsoever. I mean, its a very, very far cry from when she isn't in uniform.
Had I known before, my approach would have been much different than it was. I'm not even sure I could have done things differently. How do ya'll deal with someone who is so broken? Is it better to just give up when nothing can be done?
Your ex learned early on in her life to compartmentalize. There is no right way to deal w/someone who is broken. Sometimes, we have to step back, allow them the time and space to figure things out and follow their lead. If she ever comes to grips w/what happened, she's going to need someone to listen, validate and not judge her. She's not going to want someone to fix her, but someone who can stand beside her and allow her to make her mistakes and own them. Sometimes, just being there, as a friend, is all you can be to them w/o expectations, accepting them for who they are now and not who there were yesterday, last week or even last year.
Thank you, Job.
You are correct in her compartmentalization. Survival is how the IC (also our MC) put it. She's come to grips with a lot of it, I'd give details but that would be a little too much personalization info for here. You know, I was there as a friend and a husband. I tried. I'm not perfect, by any stretch, but there never was a reason for divorce. Her demons took hold. She is very easily influenced, as evident by her family members. Remember the one ally I have in her camp? Well, we had another talk a few days ago. In it, a lot of things were discovered...the ex had an affair with a married man several years before we met; more than one breakdown; and several suicide attempts. This family member is one of only two others in that group that knows of the abuse, but wasn't part of that experience.
Jeep74,
You have taught me so much. You've made me think hard about the trauma that happened to my W in her teen years (different than your XW's) and how broken she was from that and never fully healed. Unlike you, I did know about this throughout our M and wrongly assumed that she was at peace with it (she rarely spoke of it). In hindsight, should I have tried to talk to her more? Should I have pushed her to go to counseling? Well, I can't change the past, so I do ask myself is there anything I can do now, in the present? Or, as we will have an ongoing relationship, is there anything I can or should do in the future? I don't know. I really don't know.
Hey Gordie!
Thank you for the words, my friend.
You have taught me so much. You've made me think hard about the trauma that happened to my W in her teen years (different than your XW's) and how broken she was from that and never fully healed. Unlike you, I did know about this throughout our M and wrongly assumed that she was at peace with it (she rarely spoke of it). In hindsight, should I have tried to talk to her more? Should I have pushed her to go to counseling? Well, I can't change the past, so I do ask myself is there anything I can do now, in the present? Or, as we will have an ongoing relationship, is there anything I can or should do in the future? I don't know. I really don't know.
You know, it's an iffy thing on how I would have reacted had I known about the abuse when we were dating. I most likely would have stayed and definitely would have done things differently. She isn't a bad person, she is just a victim of a most f***ed up childhood. I'm not even sure what I could have done differently. She has a very good heart, but at the same time she is also very easily influenced. My IC said that it most likely wouldn't have mattered at all.
Should you have tried to talk more? That's a loaded question. The thing is, it may have been past her comfort level to even have that conversation - and may even bring up harmful memories. Case in point - there were some things (had I known about issues, I never would have done it) that set her off. We both are joking people and I love to play jokes, but this one instant sent her into hysterics. It's the little things that I didn't know about. She never said anything more than once and never, ever stood up or argued. Ugh. I would have gladly tried again.
Should you have pushed for counseling? I'd have to say no. That's something only she has to come to terms with. To suggest it can go right or very, very wrong.
You've heard my road and butterfly analogies often on this board, so you know where I am going. There isn't anything you can say or do, now. Work on yourself - I've seen a remarkable change since you started posting. Don't squeeze that butterfly, but keep your hand open - if she want's to alight, then she will. But make sure you are OK with her choosing not to. Just be the best Gordie you can be. That's all.
As ya'll are aware, my ex suffered through a childhood of unimaginable abuse. My ex is a great woman in her own right. Heart of gold. However, as time passed, her demons became too much. As I have said before, when she puts her uniform on its like a light switch - she becomes a totally different person...one that is calm, in control, with no self-doubt whatsoever. I mean, its a very, very far cry from when she isn't in uniform.
Jeep,
My XW is similar to yours except that she has full-blown dissociative identity disorder (aka multiple personalities). I didn't know the extent of the childhood trauma until about 11 years after being married. And, I'm fairly certain that I don't know the full extent the abuse.
Dissociative identity disorder (DID) is the result of extreme, and repeated, childhood trauma. It generally only occurs in children that are younger than 6 or 7 years old, before the personality is full formed. When the abuse occurs, the child escapes the abuse by becoming another person and repressing the memories of that person. Typically, DID doesn't outwardly manifest itself until adulthood when the person is in a safe place and is mature enough to begin to process some of the repressed memories from the "alters" (the alternate personalities that they created). Once the memories start coming back, it can be very traumatic and debilitating. My XW would often experience the repressed memories in dreams or nightmares and eventually she would remember the pits and pieces. As soon as she'd believe that all of the memories were out the open, more memories would come to the surface.
Like your XW, my XW could be a total emotional wreck and then suddenly become a strong and tough woman. She'd switch personalities and all was good again. It wasn't generally as outwardly apparent to someone who didn't know about her DID (unlike TV and movies); they'd just think she was moody or a tad bipolar. In fact, her initial diagnosis was bipolar disorder.
Anyway, I said all of that to say, although your wife isn't DID, she may actually be dissociating, repressing memories and feelings, so that can switch into her "get the job done" mode. It's also possible that she is DID; it may be worth doing some research.
It took me a long time, but I have slowly come to the realization that I have to just walk away. We are done and done. The ex gave in to her demons a long time ago, and therefore, gave up on the marriage. The IC suggested that as time passed, she went little by little back down the rabbit hole. Seems that, in some form, she missed the "drama" and did not know what to do with a "good guy." That, on top of many other things. She had often talked about she "missed" going out and drinking and that no one could out-drink her (that pretty much stopped when we got married...yet, is returning some now).
On the surface, she appears to be fine and you wouldn't know of her past. It's what lies beneath that is most scary. I've seen her breakdowns - which only came after BD - and they aren't pretty. Scary is a better word.
So what can I do? This marriage is long gone. I'm done and wash my hands of it. I don't hate her, but I do hate the environment that caused it. She has more than moved on and little birdies are talking of someone else in her life - maybe number 2, 3, or 4 since we ended ours. You know something? That doesn't bother me anymore. As long as they don't come around the kids, I'm fine with it.
Yet, I guess her ghost will always remain. Which I find odd, because I'm at the place where there is no feeling. None. Just sorrow.
Doodler,
Anyway, I said all of that to say, although your wife isn't DID, she may actually be dissociating, repressing memories and feelings, so that can switch into her "get the job done" mode. It's also possible that she is DID; it may be worth doing some research.
I will look into that, maybe just so I can learn for future dealings with her even though ours is finished.
Interesting that you talk of more memories coming in the open. My ex had told me that (close to the time of BD) her sister had starting asking questions in relation to the abuse...it seems that the sister somehow repressed the memories while the ex did not.
Thanks for adding that info...I'll definitely research, if not to only get a better understanding.
OT...
Job,
When I was at Pax, there was sandwhich/ice cream shop on 235 maybe halfway between Pax and where 235/5 merged - I want to say that it was just past the school on the left. Is it still there? Name?
Sorry to bother about this - its just nice to actually talk with someone who if from one of the places I lived.
Ok, back on OT now.
Was the ice cream shop near Thompson's Furniture Store? (Right off the old 235?) If so, it's gone and so is the furniture store. There is a Bruster's Ice Cream Shop on the north bound side of 235. Are you referring to that one?
At the split, there use to be a really nice restaurant called the Halfway House. It was sold, torn down and now a Wawa is there.
Another place that may be one you remember is Bert's. Now, that place has been around a very long time and has really good food, and of course, ice cream.
Was the ice cream shop near Thompson's Furniture Store? (Right off the old 235?) If so, it's gone and so is the furniture store. There is a Bruster's Ice Cream Shop on the north bound side of 235. Are you referring to that one?
At the split, there use to be a really nice restaurant called the Halfway House. It was sold, torn down and now a Wawa is there.
Another place that may be one you remember is Bert's. Now, that place has been around a very long time and has really good food, and of course, ice cream.
Looking at google maps, it looks to be where Evergreen Park t-boned into Three Notch, just past Spring Ridge MS. It had some great (and big) sandwiches. Never ate at Berts, or least not that I recall. What ever happened to Clark's Landing Restaurant? Loved the crab cakes.
I hate that its grown so much. Simpler place with a base stuck right in the middle of it. Thanks for catching me up.
I'm not familiar with the Spring Ridge area as it is "south" of me and I don't have much of a reason to drive down that way too often, but when I do (again), I'll take a look around and see if the place is still there that you mentioned.
Clark's Landing Restaurant was sold almost two years ago. It is due to open under the "Stoney's logo" this summer. Another seafood restaurant owned and operated by the folks at the Stoney's Restaurant on Solomon's Island. The good old boys that owned Clarke's Landing took possession of the Lighthouse restaurant over on Solomon's Island. I don't care for the food at either of the places that I have mentioned. Too much breading in their crab cakes and their prices are entirely too high for what you get for this area. Maryland crab cakes should not have a lot of filler/breading in them.
Thanks, job. I've been to Stoney's once - meh is the description I'll use. Thank you again for telling me about the area. I sure do miss it - and the better times.
If you should plan to return to the area, I can recommend two very good places to eat the "Maryland" crab cakes. They are within reason and are excellent.
As for Stoney's...I agree. I wasn't impressed one bit.
A small slip yesterday, but not too bad overall. Was walking back from the park with the kids when my son asked a simple question out of left field...took me back to when times were good.
Reminiscing s*cks. But it passed pretty quickly and didn't dwell on it. Thought that was a win for me!
And, to top a not bad day off I received a most pleasing Skype call.
If you should plan to return to the area, I can recommend two very good places to eat the "Maryland" crab cakes. They are within reason and are excellent.
As for Stoney's...I agree. I wasn't impressed one bit.
I hope to. I've been invited to another retirement coming up in November, so we will see. I'd like to get back and see some old friends. I do love those crab cakes. I'd always look out into the bay while driving around base and see the boats/floats. For a while we rented a house in Lexington Park but moved on base into one of the houses by the water. Great views.
Reminiscing does s*ck and sometimes it hits SO randomly that you are like where the heck did THAT come from? It happens to me sometimes and it always catches me off-guard. I'm so glad that it passed quickly for you and that you were able to move on quickly from it. Resilience is a beautiful thing!
And, glad you got the Skype call.
You're a lucky guy.
Reminiscing does s*ck and sometimes it hits SO randomly that you are like where the heck did THAT come from? It happens to me sometimes and it always catches me off-guard. I'm so glad that it passed quickly for you and that you were able to move on quickly from it. Resilience is a beautiful thing!
Thank you, Dawn70.
I hate it. But, there isn't anything I can do about it, either. Yesterday was very good in that aspect. Some days, I'm not able to pass so easily.
My kids still believe in their mom. I have always said that one day when they ask that I will tell them the truth. I can't shatter their world as she has.
[quote]
My kids still believe in their mom. I have always said that one day when they ask that I will tell them the truth. I can't shatter their world as she has.
So here is an off the wall question - why is it that when its the ex's turn to have the kids, the time leading up to that passes by much faster? I do not like the thought of them leaving me - not even for a day.
This just bites.
[quote=Jeep74]
My kids still believe in their mom. I have always said that one day when they ask that I will tell them the truth. I can't shatter their world as she has.
You know, it helps if you actually TYPE what you were going to say before you hit the submit button. Duh! I guess it is going to be that kind of Monday.
Anyway, what I intended to say the first time is that in some ways, I think it is probably a good thing that your kids still believe in their mom. They are still young. As I'm sure you well know, since you sound like a really good dad, kids need to be shielded from all of the "adult" stuff that happens.
My daughters were older when their dad and I divorced (21, 23 and 25) and in some ways, that was harder because they were so much more aware of things than younger kids are. But even at their age, I'm VERY careful to this day to not say anything negative about their dad, because he is their dad and they need to deal with him on their own terms and not have my negative (and believe me I have some VERY negative thoughts on what a douche bag he is) attitude clouding their opinion. Funny thing is, though, that they all see their dad for who he is and I think that is why, despite the fact that I'm just their step-mom, they still have a very close relationship with me. They have all even come out and said they have some very harsh feelings toward their dad for how our D went down.
I think the thing you have going for you, at least from my assumption based on your postings, is that you are a good dad and you know what your kids need. Unfortunately, not all parents (and I'm going to say both moms and dads here, not just dads) are "part-time" parents that really don't give a lot of thought to what the kids need.
But, then again, that is just all my opinion....for whatever that is worth to you. LOL That and a dollar will get you a cheap cup of coffee at any MickeyD's.
Hi Dawn70!
I think the thing you have going for you, at least from my assumption based on your postings, is that you are a good dad and you know what your kids need. Unfortunately, not all parents (and I'm going to say both moms and dads here, not just dads) are "part-time" parents that really don't give a lot of thought to what the kids need.
Thank you. My lawyer referred to the ex as what they call Disney moms, because want the fun but not all the work. Mine doesn't use her allotted time with them as it is. I do think that in her mind she thinks she is doing the right thing.
However, I am starting to see some signs of parental alienation. I've asked my lawyer and he said my hands are tied until she up and does something out of line. Mine are so young, that they believe her. They've come back and asked questions that they think is innocent. However, if I ever do ask about it they sort of clam up. I do think that the one time I called her out that she has been much more hidden.
Who knows.
I find that pain and all has shifted from her to what she is doing to the children. I just want to shield them as much as possible.
There is one great fear, though. I'm afraid that something may trigger in her to either revert or bring someone around them that may do bad things to them. Ugh. If that were to happen, I'd imagine I'd be in jail.
All I can say is hang in there. It really sounds as though you are on top of everything as best you can be and that shows your true love for and dedication to your children. I'm sorry their mom doesn't show that same level of dedication and hope that they don't suffer in the future, but hopefully they are still young enough and resilient enough to be able to cope as they get older.
A stable parent is a good thing and you definitely seem to be that. Keep on keeping on, my friend. Hopefully it won't come to prison time for you, but if it did, it would totally be understandable.
Dawn70,
Thank you for the kind words. I try so hard for them. Honestly, I'm scared for them. I truly am scared for them. I don't know how to make it better.
Harley Quinn.
We ended up skyping for almost an hour and a half last night. I'm still on the fence on what to do about her. Maybe its not so much as about her as dealing with my own things. Maybe it's a good thing that she lives where she does. Just let whatever happen, happen. Who knows.
It's refreshing to be able to talk all that time with someone about anything under sun, yet sometimes nothing at all. Kind of reminds me of that time we went to Basil's and completely shut the place down. Or the time after one of our dates where she packed a picnic breakfast and we went to the beach to watch the sunrise. Tired, but worth it.
I've come to realize that the divorce isn't my fault and that the things I need to work on are small and minor. A far cry from when was in the middle of it all and the ex was blaming everything under the sun on me. Convincing one, she is. Harley offered to throat punch her if I needed it. She was joking, of course. At least I think so. There is some bad blood between those two.
Harley offered to throat punch her if I needed it. She was joking, of course. At least I think so. There is some bad blood between those two.
A Harley Quinn quote...
"I’m rubber, you’re glue, whatever you say bounces off me and makes a six-inch-diameter exit wound in you."
Harley offered to throat punch her if I needed it. She was joking, of course. At least I think so. There is some bad blood between those two.
A Harley Quinn quote...
"I’m rubber, you’re glue, whatever you say bounces off me and makes a six-inch-diameter exit wound in you."
Bahahahahaha. I'm dying, Doodler. Needed that laugh.
I gotta ask, where did that line come from?
Note to self: Do not open old emails when looking for a bit of information.
I gotta ask, where did that line come from?
Jeep,
Apparently it was in Suicide Squad, but I don't remember that particular line. I came across it on a website.
After reading the emails yesterday, I found myself starting to go back down that dark path. I'm not sure what made me read them - I was looking for something totally unrelated in one of my accounts when I cam across them. Seems like such a different time and totally different me. I can't imagine myself thinking/acting/writing like I used to back then. Oh well. Growth and moving on, right?
But, that dark path didn't last too long as I was able to shut it down pretty quick. Guess that's a win, no?
Last night was interesting in that the memories didn't bother me and aside from a few minor distractions, they kept being replayed. Vacations. Dates. Whatever. The difference this time is that the memories were fond, kind of like remembering times with someone who was long deceased. Off an on all night. Until Harley Quinn called very late and kept me up to the wee hours.
I gotta ask, where did that line come from?
Jeep,
Apparently it was in Suicide Squad, but I don't remember that particular line. I came across it on a website.
I need to go back and watch it again. Not a bad movie...
Hey, did you know that there will be another movie (unrelated) that will feature Margot as Harley again?
Hey, did you know that there will be another movie (unrelated) that will feature Margot as Harley again?
Jeep,
Another movie with Margot as Harley? I don't know if I could survive the movie; I might have a heart attack. Margot plays that role perfectly.
Another movie with Margot as Harley? I don't know if I could survive the movie; I might have a heart attack. Margot plays that role perfectly.
Doodler,
It's called Gotham City Sirens. Will feature Harley Quinn, Catwoman, and Poison Ivy. I may just have to buy that one.
It's called Gotham City Sirens. Will feature Harley Quinn, Catwoman, and Poison Ivy. I may just have to buy that one.
Jeep,
Holy bad girl trio Batman, how'd I miss that? I'll have to pre-order the movie. I guess I'm attracted to villain women.
[/quote]
Jeep,
Holy bad girl trio Batman, how'd I miss that? I'll have to pre-order the movie. I guess I'm attracted to villain women.
[/quote]
Doodler,
I've seen hints of who may play Poison Ivy and Catgirl, and if those are correct. Well, then I'm not sure I'd survivce it... Don't know when it's due out. But I will have to get me a copy. Right there with ya - villain women make it happen.
Jeep,
I'm making wild guesses; Rachelle Lefevre will be Poison Ivy and Eva Sinclair will be Catgirl.
Jeep,
I'm making wild guesses; Rachelle Lefevre will be Poison Ivy and Eva Sinclair will be Catgirl.
Holy hell, Doodler. If that happens I'm done. I'd change Sinclair (not a fan) out for Gemma Arterton or Seinna Miller..
How do you feel when Harley Quinn calls you late at night...just to talk?
How do you feel when Harley Quinn calls you late at night...just to talk?
Hey Gordie! Thanks for stopping by!
Doesn't bother me at all. I like talking with her...we seem to have no problem doing those long talks that seem like minutes.
I would say this, Gordie, it seems a lot like the stage we were in when she was in Iraq. When she was deployed we never knew really when she'd get to call due to such things as blackouts, out the wire, etc...but when she did, we'd talk for a good while.
Now, this reminds me much of those times but maybe a little more advanced due to things. But, yeah, I enjoy talking with her.
Also, if Harley were closer it would be a whole different ball game...
So here is a question a friend posted to me: How can you completely get over someone (my ex, in this instance) when the death of the marriage was basically due to something out of her control, in a sense? I mean, yes, she does have control over her actions, but from years of "survival" from the abuse has taught her to behave in certain ways. Those that are good spouses whose SO's leave under these circumstances are really going to forever have that hanging over their head.
Do, DB people, is there a way to totally rid oneself of that monkey?
Those that are good spouses whose SO's leave under these circumstances are really going to forever have that hanging over their head.
Jeep,
I allowed my wife a lot of leeway because of the abuse she suffered as a child. She could be very harsh and demanding, among other things. I was very willing to live with her idiosyncrasies, but ultimately she's responsible for her behavior. I can honestly say that I did the best that I could as a husband and I don't think there are many men who could've been a better husband to her. It's very sad that our marriage ended, but I'm responsible for our sons and my own life and I'm not going to let the unfortunate outcome of our marriage hold me back from fully enjoying life.
Doodler,
Very well said, sir.
It's very sad that our marriage ended, but I'm responsible for our sons and my own life and I'm not going to let the unfortunate outcome of our marriage hold me back from fully enjoying life.
I like this. I may modify it for my tag line.
I allowed my wife a lot of leeway because of the abuse she suffered as a child. She could be very harsh and demanding, among other things.
Allow me to add this - had I had known any of it, or even had an inkling, I'd also have given her the leeway she needed. But, in my instance, I knew nothing until after divorce was mentioned. Nothing. Looking back, I see her tendencies for what they really were. But, still, things would have been different now.
Like you said, she's an adult and therefore responsible for her actions, however much she is given her narcissistic and sociopathic tendencies. I've done a good bit of reading (the MC/IC supplied me with a ton of material on people who suffer from those disorders) and I must say that it was very, very enlightening. Helped me understand some of the things I didn't...now, it didn't answer all of the questions, but a few. Some will never get answered, of course.
I've posted that some of us left-behinds may always suffer from not having the proper closure. We may not ever totally find the reason. In my case, I have a better understanding of why she left and did the things she did, but that doesn't make it any better. I may not fully ever be able to evict her ghost. One thing is that deep down I know that had I known how things affected her, I'd have acted/reacted differently. Maybe that's the sword of Damocles that will always be there...always hanging over our heads.
Not to say that I can't move on - or have already - and enjoy a new life. I'm just saying that will always stick. And I don't know how to unstick it.
Jeep,
Even if you'd known about the abuse, you may not have been able to change the outcome. The problem is that the abused person has to want to address their issues and get better. My wife would take some steps toward addressing her issues, but then she'd back-off and allow her inner demons to control her. She absolutely hated therapy; she had an irrational fear of being institutionalized. She'd doing everything she could to keep the memories repressed. Ultimately she met someone that had a similar background, and Bob's your uncle...
Jeep,
Even if you'd known about the abuse, you may not have been able to change the outcome. The problem is that the abused person has to want to address their issues and get better. My wife would take some steps toward addressing her issues, but then she'd back-off and allow her inner demons to control her. She absolutely hated therapy; she had an irrational fear of being institutionalized. She'd doing everything she could to keep the memories repressed. Ultimately she met someone that had a similar background, and Bob's your uncle...
Doodler,
You're right. The IC even said as much - that it really didn't matter what I could have done as the outcome would have been the same. Maybe that's why all her ex's - and the OM - fit a particular pattern that I didn't.
Mine didn't mind therapy. The IC said that she could easily fool them. Heck, the ex said that eventually all of her therapists would say I've gone as far as I can...which suggests that she doesn't really want to address things. I feel that she has gone to so many therapists over the years because the military made her.
You know, reading your exchange with Doodler last night and earlier today has given me some food for thought that I don't think ever even entered my realm of possibilities before.
Let me preface it by saying that I have said before my D came completely out of left field for me but I found DB pretty quickly on and I tried to DB, but he was just done and I didn't beg or plead because I just wasn't in the place where I was willing to do it. And, it's a long story and doesn't really matter, but the long and short of it is, my XH always complained that he'd been abused by his alcoholic father as a child and into his teens. He talked about it a LOT. And, I always believed him, but I also always thought that he never really dealt with it fully.
So anyway, your exchange has made me think that maybe I never gave enough leeway to him for what he had dealt with in his past and was still dealing with. I mean I can't go back and change that now, obviously, nor do I really want to, to be perfectly honest because I'm good with where my life is right now, but looking back, if I could change things, maybe I would be a little more..........not even sure what word to use here.......I would be a little more flexible.
Ultimately, I like what Doodler said about he's responsible for his kids and himself and that is kind of my train of thought too. I'm responsible for me and he has to be responsible for him. I'm responsible for what damage I did to the marriage and he's responsible for his part of that as well (though he doesn't think he did any....it is all my fault, of course...but I digress).
Anyway, I rambled on and hi-jacked your post here, Jeep, to say thank you to you and Doodler for opening my eyes to something I hadn't seen or thought about before. It really helped me see some things in a different light.
Dawn,
You didn't hijack anything, ma'am. It just gives me different perspectives on things.
my D came completely out of left field for me but I found DB pretty quickly on and I tried to DB, but he was just done and I didn't beg or plead because I just wasn't in the place where I was willing to do it
Mine was so far out of left field it wouldn't have even been in the stadium. Never even had an inkling. I tried DB. Didn't work. Nothing I tried worked. She was too far gone, and I suspect that's the same for 95% of us on here.
I mean I can't go back and change that now, obviously, nor do I really want to, to be perfectly honest because I'm good with where my life is right now, but looking back, if I could change things, maybe I would be a little more..........not even sure what word to use here.......I would be a little more flexible.
You are in an awesome place. Like you, I'd change so many small things. I like the term flexible...there are times when I should have been, too.
Ultimately, I like what Doodler said about he's responsible for his kids and himself and that is kind of my train of thought too. I'm responsible for me and he has to be responsible for him. I'm responsible for what damage I did to the marriage and he's responsible for his part of that as well (though he doesn't think he did any....it is all my fault, of course...but I digress).
I agree. I think I may modify it and put it in my tag line. We are only responsible for our own actions. To this day, mine refuses to see her part in the marriage...hell, she still has not showed any remorse for the affair.
And you are most welcome, Dawn. Your wisdom and words have helped me so much. Thanks to you, ma'am.
I hear ya on the out of left field.....mine was the same way. NO clue, just came home one day and he had this weird look on his face and I asked what was wrong and he said "I want a divorce". Uhhhhhhhhh................okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk. I did ask right then if there was someone else and he lied and said no and I actually believed him which is odd because he was a really bad liar. Not sure how he got away with it as long as he did. But oh well....coulda, shoulda, woulda, right?????
But oh well....coulda, shoulda, woulda, right?????
I think that is the mantra of us all...
After all this time and the different avenues and experiences, I'm still unable to evict her ghost. I may have to start charging it rent for taking up space in my head. The thing is, its just small things. Last night, for example. My son was talking about going to both Disney and our favorite vacation place. As he talked, some of the better memories came back, which led to a tinge of sadness.
I don't pine for her anymore. Heck, I don't even want to go on a "date" with her anymore. So why is this ghost taking up space?
Does it need to be a case of evicting her ghost or is it more a case of honouring the memory of a happy time that did matter to you. Things have changed in your life since that time - for better or for worse - but changed nonetheless. And this was a significant relationship to you and of course you think of it and of her some times.
I find as more time passes, I can think of happier memories with less pain. At one time, my mind would have gone to a happier time and I would feel burned by a flame. But now I find I can better accept that our marriage had happy times and worse times, whilst also accepting the end of the marriage and moving on.
Hi Sotto!
Thanks for stopping by!
Does it need to be a case of evicting her ghost or is it more a case of honouring the memory of a happy time that did matter to you. Things have changed in your life since that time - for better or for worse - but changed nonetheless. And this was a significant relationship to you and of course you think of it and of her some times.
You know, I've never thought of it that way. Maybe I was looking at it entirely wrong. Maybe its ok for the ghost to take up residence. I find myself remembering the happy times with a lot, lot less pain now. Sure, every now and then it'll pull and I guess it always will. I like how you described it. Thank you!
I find as more time passes, I can think of happier memories with less pain. At one time, my mind would have gone to a happier time and I would feel burned by a flame. But now I find I can better accept that our marriage had happy times and worse times, whilst also accepting the end of the marriage and moving on.
I'm getting there...and looking at it in the way you described is smoothing out my road considerably.
Thank you so much!
So why is this ghost taking up space?
Jeep,
It's because you need a new tenant. In the meantime, you should make a necklace of garlic cloves and wear the necklace non-stop for an entire week.
So why is this ghost taking up space?
Jeep,
It's because you need a new tenant. In the meantime, you should make a necklace of garlic cloves and wear the necklace non-stop for an entire week.
Doodler,
Bahahahahahaha. I needed that this morning! How are you doing, my friend?
I think even while a new tenant helps, the ghost of someone we once loved never goes away. it's how we let us affect us.
How are you doing, my friend?
Jeep,
I'm totally pumped. I'm preparing to create an "accent wall" this weekend. I just finished painting the fireplace mantel and now I'm going to use deep red venetian plaster on the wall around the mantel to create the accent wall. I'm getting in touch with my feminine side, and wowsa...
Other than the malevolent ghost, how are you doing?
I think even while a new tenant helps, the ghost of someone we once loved never goes away. it's how we let us affect us.
Hi Ginger! A truer statement has never been said. I'm learning. And with Sotto's advice, maybe I've got this thing licked. Well, at least for the time being anyway. It is how we let it affect us. I like that. I'm starting to find that things don't bother me like they used to. Sure, there are still tinges and maybe there always will be. But the clouds are parting.
Its a sunny day!
How are you doing, my friend?
Jeep,
I'm totally pumped. I'm preparing to create an "accent wall" this weekend. I just finished painting the fireplace mantel and now I'm going to use deep red venetian plaster on the wall around the mantel to create the accent wall. I'm getting in touch with my feminine side, and wowsa...
Other than the malevolent ghost, how are you doing?
Doodler,
I'm doing pretty well. I like the work you are doing, my friend. You should post some of your work over on TW for me to check out. I'll be getting a new place sooner than later and may need some ideas.
I'm starting a new workout plan and find that I am pushing myself harder than I have in a long, long time. That's a good thing, in my book. I won't have the kids this weekend so maybe I can get some things done. Who knows. Maybe I'll just kick back and relax for a bit. And make some hot buttered rum!
I'm glad you stopped by, my friend.
Jeep,
I'm glad your workouts are going well. I need to get back into a regular exercise routine.
Jeep,
I'm glad your workouts are going well. I need to get back into a regular exercise routine.
Doodler,
I'll check it out, my friend!
A small text conversation with the ex ended up not so nice this morning. She ended up saying that she was trying to be civil and I sent back "I am too" and also added that you wanted out and got what you wanted. She went on to say at least lets try to be friends. I wanted to laugh but just didn't answer...
Jeep74,
Re he her lets try to be friends comment: what do you want your R to be now? what is actually possible/desirable for you?
Doodler,
You know, I don't even know anymore. I find it hard to be friends with someone who stabbed me in the back like that - she's an adult and knows right from wrong, no matter how messed up her childhood was.
I mean, she wanted out and destroyed two families doing it. Can I be friends? Honestly, I have no desire to be friends with her. None at all. I know what we have to have an amicable relationship around/concerning the kids and I get that. But I won't be buds with her.
Don't you just LOVE the "let's be friends" thing? My XH tried that with me too. No...just no! No thank you, you narcissistic, lying, cheating, a$$hat. We don't even have to pretend to be amicable because the kids are adults so screw you, dude. Of course, in my case, it actually worked out that the new cheating skank is insecure and forbid him from talking to me. LOLOLOLOLOLOL Yep, a grown man forbidden to talk to someone. But, I guess I see her point because my motto has always been if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you. Of course, he cheated ON me, not with me and I have NO intention of EVER going back down that road. Goodbye and good riddance. I have real friends who love me and don't stab me in the back, thank you very much.
LOL sorry for the rant, but that is just what popped into my head when I read your friends chat with your XW. I'm just not sure I'll ever understand how someone can screw you over with a smile on their face then still want to make nice. People are crazy!
Can I be friends? Honestly, I have no desire to be friends with her. None at all. I know what we have to have an amicable relationship around/concerning the kids and I get that. But I won't be buds with her.
Jeep,
I think you were responding to Gordie, nevertheless, I agree with Dawn regarding the friend thing. I'm staying out of friend zone. I don't want to be reeled back into the abyss.
It must be difficult interacting with an ex-spouse. Mine shows no interest in me at all, which is fine and pretty peaceful.
In respect of your interaction above - why not stop at so am I? Why follow it up with the further comment? Do you still feel a need to punish her for what has happened?
It must be difficult interacting with an ex-spouse. Mine shows no interest in me at all, which is fine and pretty peaceful.
In respect of your interaction above - why not stop at so am I? Why follow it up with the further comment? Do you still feel a need to punish her for what has happened?
Sotto,
My XW and I don't communicate much, and I'm happy with that. She's initiated most of the communication, but I'd almost always used our communication as an opportunity to take pot-shots at the OM. I'd say things like, "Your boyfriend is so dumb that he thinks Moby Dick is a venereal disease." And it's true, he's dumb, broke, disgusting, and above all else, he's married.
I guess I'm a wretched soul; the diet cola of evil. But, the guy is such a big target (literally) that I have to take my shots when I get the opportunity. And, my wife exacerbates the issue; she becomes totally flustered when I disparage her boyfriend. It's great sport and I'm too weak to pass up the opportunities. By golly, my weakness aside, it's all their fault!
My favorite line is, "Tweedledum is such a loser that he can't even dial 911 without getting help." That one is totally true. There's a story behind it and it's all true. (By the way, Tweedledum is my nickname for him. There's a story behind that too.)
So, the end result of diabolical doodler's dirty deeds is that my XW rarely contacts me. I'm trying to work on this and I'll eventually get better. (Ok, I'm lying about working on it; I totally enjoy razzing the XW.)
My XW and I don't communicate much, and I'm happy with that. She's initiated most of the communication, but I'd almost always used our communication as an opportunity to take pot-shots at the OM. I'd say things like, "Your boyfriend is so dumb that he thinks Moby Dick is a venereal disease." And it's true, he's dumb, broke, disgusting, and above all else, he's married.
I guess I'm a wretched soul; the diet cola of evil. But, the guy is such a big target (literally) that I have to take my shots when I get the opportunity. And, my wife exacerbates the issue; she becomes totally flustered when I disparage her boyfriend. It's great sport and I'm too weak to pass up the opportunities. By golly, my weakness aside, it's all their fault!
My favorite line is, "Tweedledum is such a loser that he can't even dial 911 without getting help." That one is totally true. There's a story behind it and it's all true. (By the way, Tweedledum is my nickname for him. There's a story behind that too.)
So, the end result of diabolical doodler's dirty deeds is that my XW rarely contacts me. I'm trying to work on this and I'll eventually get better. (Ok, I'm lying about working on it; I totally enjoy razzing the XW.)
Doodler, I REALLY wish you would stop holding back and tell us how you really feel! LOLOLOLOLOL
Don't you just LOVE the "let's be friends" thing? My XH tried that with me too. No...just no! No thank you, you narcissistic, lying, cheating, a$$hat. We don't even have to pretend to be amicable because the kids are adults so screw you, dude. Of course, in my case, it actually worked out that the new cheating skank is insecure and forbid him from talking to me. LOLOLOLOLOLOL Yep, a grown man forbidden to talk to someone. But, I guess I see her point because my motto has always been if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you. Of course, he cheated ON me, not with me and I have NO intention of EVER going back down that road. Goodbye and good riddance. I have real friends who love me and don't stab me in the back, thank you very much.
Dawn,
I agree 100%. There is no way I'll ever be friends. Especially someone who did the things she did...and has the nerve to blame me for every single thing...
People are more than crazy!
Gordie - please accept my apologies for the confusion in the responses. I don't know what I was thinking!
Sotto,
I'm not going to say its always difficult. We don't talk unless its concerning the kids, or unless she starts in on something like she did yesterday. I'm not sure why I engage her once in a while...I'll still drop little truth bombs once in a while - not sure why, maybe its the doodler-esque in me, who knows. I have the atomic truth bomb waiting on her family if they keep pushing me...
I'm not sure why I engage her once in a while...I'll still drop little truth bombs once in a while - not sure why, maybe its the doodler-esque in me, who knows.
Jeep,
I might still be harboring just a wee bit of anger; just a tiny morsel.
Doodler,
There is still a wee bit of anger. Some towards the ex. And some towards that messed up family of hers. I've kept my cool for the most part and not carpet bombed them with all the stuff I have. But I have a feeling its coming.
When one door closes another always opens. Remember that and will be fine.
That ghost is owning me today.
Doodler/Jeep,
When my W blames me for everything I do sometimes want to scream, no you are the one who is cheating on me and wanting a divorce!!!
Jeep,
Sorry about the d@mn ghost.
When my W blames me for everything I do sometimes want to scream, no you are the one who is cheating on me and wanting a divorce!!!
Then why don't you drop a few truth bombs?
Doodler,
Thanks, man. Yesterday wasn't a good one. I don't know if its a combination of what if's and what could have been's, or whatever, yesterday was just sucktastic.
You can relate because our situations are similar from the abuse standpoint. Yes, she is an adult and knows right from wrong, but she is so shaped by her past that it almost controls her present. You know, there is no getting over it or being ready, you just have to compartmentalize things. It will always be there. Always.
That's, the thing. On some levels, she can't help it. But on others, she knows exactly what she is doing - and that is what she always has, ran. There is no going back for us - she cut the supply lines and safety nets a long time ago. Compartmentalize.
However, the clouds parted a little. On the hour + drive to get the kids, Harley called. Seems as if she has a sixth sense or something.
When my W blames me for everything I do sometimes want to scream, no you are the one who is cheating on me and wanting a divorce!!!
Gordie,
I sympathize with you. I'm still amazed at how easily my W (now XW) was able to effortlessly distort reality and find a way to blame anything and everything on me.
I'm still amazed at how easily my W (now XW) was able to effortlessly distort reality and find a way to blame anything and everything on me.
Yes sir. Same here.
That's, the thing. On some levels, she can't help it. But on others, she knows exactly what she is doing - and that is what she always has, ran. There is no going back for us - she cut the supply lines and safety nets a long time ago. Compartmentalize.
Jeep,
I'm sorry yesterday was so bad. I've had difficulty with that dichotomy as well; my XW is driven by inner demons, but I know her and I know deep-down she knows that she's going down a destructive path.
I'm glad Harley was able brighten your mood. Telepathy is one of the keys to a good relationship.
Doodler,
Thank you, my friend. Let me ask you this - do you feel that your marriage ended because of her demons, much like mine did?
Harley has a way of doing that...
Thank you, my friend. Let me ask you this - do you feel that your marriage ended because of her demons, much like mine did/
Jeep,
Yes, I'm certain her childhood issues played a large role in the breakup of our marriage. In fact, she's always amazed me at how well she was able to function so well given what she'd been through earlier in life. Marriage aside, I wish she would've been more proactive about getting help.
One of the many unfortunate downsides of dissociative identity disorder is that, when an alter (an alternate personality) goes way, it's usually like the death of a real person has occurred. The alters fear death, just like any person would, even though it's not physical death. Therefore, there's a natural reluctance to get the kind of help they need because healing implicitly requires death of the insiders. It's a terrible and devastating psychological disorder.
Doodler,
I need to read up more on this. As with you, I'm also amazed that mine has functioned so well - to even become a ranking officer, no less. However, once that uniform comes off its like a light switch. I've said this before, but her cracks really started showing around the time our daughter was born...and when she reached the age of when my ex's abuse started, its like the flood gates opened. It was about seven months after when the BD happened, affair, etc.
I know mine has seen help only because she was ordered to do so. As I have discussed in other threads, she is very manipulative, so-to-speak...she always says they are of no help or "can only go so far."
There are quite a few things I can't speak of here, but I will personal. Not a great thing, my friend. Not at all.
Jeep,
My XW was originally diagnosed as bipolar. I was the one that "discovered" the dissociative identity disorder (DID), but it was clearly DID when it presented itself. We we lying in bed at the time and I said something that triggered her, and there was no question of what was going on. However, she wasn't really aware of the others at first. I had to find a way to break the news to her (that's another story). She was eventually diagnosed by a psychologist with expertise in childhood trauma.
If your wife was subjected to on-going trauma and abuse, particularly by "trusted" adults (parents, nanny etc.), when she was relatively young (usually younger than 7), then it's possible she's DID.
One of the scariest moments I had with my XW (then girlfriend) was when she'd repressed that fact that she was DID. We'd been through so much, and then suddenly, she'd lost all conscious memory of the DID. People suffering from DID can be like that; they know how to totally repress memories.
At the time, naive doodler thought that recognition of the issue would bring about relatively quick (a few years) recovery from the trauma. It's not quick; it's a lifelong endeavor to heal from that kind of trauma.
If your wife was subjected to on-going trauma and abuse, particularly by "trusted" adults (parents, nanny etc.), when she was relatively young (usually younger than 7), then it's possible she's DID.
Possible. I'll need to read up on that more. Her abuse started at a very young age at the hands of her mom's boyfriends...up until the time she went to live with another family member. And then she was almost killed by a boyfriend, raped, beaten, etc... All of this was before the early 20s.
Jeep,
Yes, repeated abuse throughout life is common because the victim often doesn't understand they're in a potentially dangerous situation. They don't have good boundaries.
Doodler,
We need to get out of this depressing talk.
We haven't heard any more of your dating adventures in a while...fill us in, kind sir.
We haven't heard any more of your dating adventures in a while...fill us in, kind sir.
Jeep,
About a month ago I went cold turkey on the dating thing. I wasn't ready. Online dating is certainly different and interesting, but it can be overwhelming. The best metaphor that I can think of is that it's kind of like a huge buffet, there are endless choices, but I'm not hungry so there's nothing that I really want at the moment. Does that make sense?
On the other hand, I do like spending time with my sons as well as doing my home projects. I'm helping my youngest son build his go kart and I also general do whatever my oldest son would like to do at any given time. I found that online dating was a bit of a distraction because I'd often check my phone when I was out with the boys (i.e. it was like my XW's behavior during her EA). Right now, I feel like it's important that I give my sons my full attention when I have them.
So, that's my dating update.
I feel like it's important that I give my sons my full attention when I have them.
Doodler,
The single best answer there is, sir. Even though I've gone out a few times and there is this whole Harley thing, I find myself much more wanting to give my kids 100%...and as you know, I have them all but two weekends a month. I won't bring anyone around them in the near, or maybe distant, future, either. They are my first and foremost. Period.
Being ready to date has many, many different levels. Personally, even just coffee or dinner is good for the soul - and ego - given as to how much we were beat down. Like you, I know my marriage isn't ever coming back - so why not get back on the horse, even if its just a pony?
Being ready to date has many, many different levels. Personally, even just coffee or dinner is good for the soul - and ego - given as to how much we were beat down. Like you, I know my marriage isn't ever coming back - so why not get back on the horse, even if its just a pony?
Ok, first and foremost, the pony thing made me laugh out loud, so thanks for that. The students walking past my office now think I'm a crazy old lady sitting in my office looking at the computer and laughing. But anyway, I think you are so rate about being ready to date has levels. I think those levels are different for everyone. For me, personally, I was not ready to even think about dating for about a year. I used that time to go to counseling and just kind of readjust my "normal". It was a hard year, but I needed it. Then, it was like flipping a switch and all of a sudden, I was like yep...I'm ready. I think we all find that in our way and in our own time. I like seeing everyone's progressions here as we are all different folks living our own timelines. Interesting stuff. People fascinate me!
Ok, first and foremost, the pony thing made me laugh out loud, so thanks for that. The students walking past my office now think I'm a crazy old lady sitting in my office looking at the computer and laughing. But anyway, I think you are so rate about being ready to date has levels. I think those levels are different for everyone. For me, personally, I was not ready to even think about dating for about a year. I used that time to go to counseling and just kind of readjust my "normal". It was a hard year, but I needed it. Then, it was like flipping a switch and all of a sudden, I was like yep...I'm ready. I think we all find that in our way and in our own time. I like seeing everyone's progressions here as we are all different folks living our own timelines. Interesting stuff. People fascinate me!
People fascinate me, too!
You know, for the longest I wasn't even thinking about going out. Until this friend asked me if I wanted to get something to eat with her. I know - paralleling yours, right? - so I did...funny thing, I felt wrong at first but I don't know why because my marriage was done and gone. Went out with her a few times and although she wanted more, I just wasn't ready at that point. We are still great friends and talk a bit...and she posts on my FB pictures and stuff all the time.
Am I ready for a relationship? I don't know. The kids are the driver for me. I won't bring anyone around them, and with the amount of time I have them, it would be difficult.
I'm sure it will happen sooner or later. I'm at the point where, yes, I'd like to go beyond dating. But not in front of the kids.
This whole dating conversation has really gotten me to thinking - how long did the ones who have dated introduce them to your kids? I'm not sure I could ever do that - maybe in the future I can change my mind, but not now. I just can't. Take Harley for instance, she has left the door open for me - but for that to work, it would take a huge commitment seeing that she is that far away. But she wants to. If she lived closer, it would be an easy decision - but here lies the rub...how long could I date without introducing my children?
It's crazy to think about. All the kids know are their mom. And they still believe in her (one of the most painful things for me now). They still believe.
Back to Harley, for example. We took so many trips - I know, it changes with kids in the picture and all, but trips still happen. Even when I get to that point again, I can't imagine seeing whoever it is staying in a hotel with me and the kids. Good grief one could go crazy thinking about such things.
I introduced one guy in many years and it took 4 months when I saw it going somewhere. It ended up not going anywhere, but I saw it going somewhere.
My FF has been seeing her and interacting with her 5 days a week for the past few weeks before we started dating. (my child is the mayor of the gym) So, I bent the rules and allowed him over for dinner. My concerns have to do with her getting too attached, so I am having them keep a safe distance.
If you are dating with no intention of it going anywhere, then the kids don't belong in the equation. That's my take anyways.
Thank you, Ginger. I'm scared of ever doing that as they still believe in the ex. And they are young. However, I'm not at the point where I will worry about that now. Maybe. It just concerns me. On some level, I think that if I ever did that they wouldn't like it. Or even hate it. Ugh.
Thanks for your words!
What do you mean by the kids "still believe in their mom"?
That their mom will come back to you?
Yep. That when she retires and comes back they still believe that she come back to the family. Ugh.