Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: Ginger1 Bah-Humbug - 12/11/16 10:22 AM
Previous Thread:

No Rules

Thanks, Job for linking for me.

I just wrote out a long depressing post. And I erased it.

What's the point? Life it what it is. D9 and I are decorated for Christmas, I did a whole ton of Christmas shopping this weekend, I am broke. I can't wait for next weekend when D9 and I do our fudge making extravaganza next weekend. I realize she is my favorite person to spend time with. It's so pure. I can't quite explain it.

Is it a good thing these guys I am not interested want a second date? I dunno. I just pray my lovin' feelin' comes back sometime soon. I can't believe there is one person in this world who had the power to take that away and it pisses me off.

Anyways, I am off to yoga. It's a charity even for dress for success. In a addition tot he $10 donation for the class, you can bring in work clothes. I have a bunch of stuff that doesn't fit, some with tags that I am going to bring.

Then I left my debit card where I lunched yesterday which is kind of far. SO I decided I am going to dine there again and have dinner with myself and a good book after yoga.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/11/16 11:19 AM
Ginger, just look at each new contact as a chance to connect with another human being. We each have intriguing stories to tell and can enjoy each others company for an hour or two and if it results in something bigger (sorry, that sounded like the plumber) and better so be it. Personally, I have very much enjoyed each coffee meet and dinner date I've had ( maybe I'm just lucky, who knows) and only one has ever resulted in a relationship. Yes, Christmas is a difficult time. I was just out walking in the park (trying to knock off 20 lbs!) and even in the sub zero weather conditions I still saw couples walking along the path laughing and chatting...and I was alone. It is what it is and won't always be that way but you still notice and feel that empty spot inside. I feel for ya!
Posted By: DonH Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/11/16 12:41 PM
I know you already know, but I so get what you are feeling and saying. Really too bad we live half the united states away or I'm betting we'd have a fun friendship - while serving as each other's wing person. smile

It really just is a matter of time. I know I've still not updated my thread but I've had some changes in attitude and a bit in life and it's amazing how both really help. It's all so much about timing and clearly that part is not up to us. Just as someone came into your life a year ago and "those feelings" were there in an instant, it will happen again - when you least expect it, just like the first time.

So from a plumber to a priest huh? See you just can't make this stuff up. OLD - the land of misfit toys. I'm still a little surprised the plumber never contacted you again. Hey at least you enjoyed some nice kisses, so it's not all bad. Amazing how that can help - yes, also related to my updates, that I really need to post.

For the first time in a while, I think both of us are on the right course. This really is progress, even if it doesn't always feel like it. Just keep at it Ginger.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/11/16 06:45 PM
Wii, I wish I enjoyed these coffee dates. I mean, they aren't bad, but weird when a priest tries to slip you the tongue! It is really tough this time of the year watching couples and for me, especially, families with little kids. It's always been a huge trigger for me. I think for the first 2 years after bomb drop, I couldn't go in a store or the mall around Chritsmas, because a mom and a dad and a baby in a stroller would trigger automatic tears in public. I never got to experience the whole family experience at Christmastime. I will admit, I watch everyone on FB with their family adventures this time of the year, and I cry.

DonH, I know you are one of the people who totally understand what I am going through as you are living it. We have gone on the longest without a new real long term relationship or remarriage. Too bad we don't live closer, I am sure we would have a blast! I truly have no idea what course I am on. I swear, my theme song is "Here I go again on my own, going down the only road I've ever known. Like a drifter I was born to walk alone"

I wish there someone I wanted to kiss and snuggle with, even if it's just to ease the pain right now. But nope.

While I made a very conscious decision to no longer give my energy to or care about a particular person who doesn't give a crap about me, my mind can't really help but go back there this time of year. It was the roughtest for us. One day he was telling his daughter that he loved me (I'll never forget it). A week later, he just stopped talking to me. I kept thinking maybe I was so happy, but really, only in when y feelings weren't being jerked around.

ANyways, I can't wait to tell my priest story at work tomorrow. It makes very good lunch talk. I was thinking about it last night. He probably hasn't had sex in 10 years. OMG! I'm sure he anxious to do so.

Is it possible to be happy and sad? I think that's what I am. Both happy and sad. A sadness has been lingering and is a part of me, but I am not unhappy. My job has been taking a toll on me too. I am miserably bored, my days are sooooooo slow. I miss human interaction, patient interaction, we got in trouble for talking at work, so now we basically put our heads down and work a very repetitive job. Not what I became a nurse for. But my family comes first. Nothing I can do about it.

Yup, I am happy but sad.

And DOn, will you please update? I am sitting here on the edge of my seat!
Posted By: SH_ Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/12/16 06:59 AM
Quote:
Is it a good thing these guys I am not interested want a second date? I dunno. I just pray my lovin' feelin' comes back sometime soon. I can't believe there is one person in this world who had the power to take that away and it pisses me off.


Ginger...I think you know that someone can not take away that feeling from you...I believe that you know that the feeling is a choice, and no one can take away your choices...at some point you will decide to take the leap again...at some point you will decide to believe you can love another...

Perhaps looking inward to see if you have made the choice to love yourself in the manner that you are seeking it from without will be the first step to "feeling" it again.

I know you know what I am saying here...and I know that you know that I understand what you are saying here...and I challenge you to look deeper...seek within...and know...you hold all of the power, that you indicate another had over you...you alone will always hold it.

Enjoy this time with you D9...perhaps the universe wants you to stay focused on her for now and that is why you have not found...that lovin' feelin' for another.

(((((Ginger)))))
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/12/16 07:27 AM
So Ginger, you've given the priest the last rites and he ain't gettin' Nun! OK, I'm done...that's all I got for now (but I'm sure it's more than enough lol).
Posted By: JujuB Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/12/16 07:59 AM
Love your thread title!

Can't help but think that the ending of your last relationship was a blessing in disguise....none of us want to deal with another BD 10 to 15 years down the line. And a guy that loves you 1 week, but stops talking to you the next was showing his true colors relatively early. This was a nice sign from the universe before you reinvested. I feel bad for the woman he ended up with.

Enjoy the wealth of experiences and stories you collect. You are an exciting and enriched woman for them!

I am experimenting with the though that life does not have to be a white picket fence with a partner? We know most people in those situations end up miserable. There is fun to freedom too.

Hugs

J.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/12/16 07:35 PM
SH- I do know that no one else had the power to take anything away from me. I just felt like blaming something, lol. I am afraid I will not get my loving feeling back, but most likely because I haven't found the right one yet. No one had any power over me. I've done so much deep digging into myself, I can't stand anymore. My majority of my frustration comes from so much inner work, finally loving myself, and it still ain't happening. I feel like the universe just keeps giving me the finger.

JuJu- it's funny, I think that my ex leaving me was probably a blessing in disguise. Which sounds so weird. My last relationship ending was probably a blessing in disguise too, because I was ready to pick up my life to move in if he wanted me too. Which he didn't, and that was probably a blessing in disguise. I am at the point where I need someone fully committed and not so wishy washy and MLCy. I sure am collecting a wealth of experiences and stories. Some stories make really good party stories too....

I will tell you, there is a real fun to freedom. I answer to no one except a 9 year old girl. There are no expectations of anyone in my life, and there is a real sense of freedom to that. No one can let me down.

Wii, that was a good one!!!

Ex and I took D9 to see santa tonight. He took the day off because of a delayed school opening because she was at his house. So I went to the gym and he picked her up from aftercare and brought her to my house to get ready. I had to feed D9 and myself so I told him I made sausage and peppers last night for tonight and he was free to have some. Of course he asked "what color are the peppers?" He said it was delicious.

Before he came, I realized never in my life did I experience him picking up our child, brining her home, and having dinner together like those families with white picket fences do. Of course it was absolutely nothing like that. We took her, it was dog night and I saw him take a picture of a bulldog and I called him a dog creeper too (because I took a pic of a pug) He said he took the picture because OWW likes bulldogs. He doesn't not share anything about them as a couple together and while I just smile and I have nothing for him, but its feels like he flaunts his betrayal in my face. Probably not intentionally, but it's just not a big deal at all to him. For me, I will never ever forget what their marriage signifies.

As you can tell, I am sort of kind of down and emotional right now.

Juju- I don't like the holidays. Hence my title. This wasn't always me, but for the past 9 years of my life it has been, even though they are supposed to be the best when you have kids.
Posted By: SH_ Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/12/16 09:28 PM
Quote:
SH- I do know that no one else had the power to take anything away from me. I just felt like blaming something, lol. I am afraid I will not get my loving feeling back, but most likely because I haven't found the right one yet. No one had any power over me. I've done so much deep digging into myself, I can't stand anymore. My majority of my frustration comes from so much inner work, finally loving myself, and it still ain't happening. I feel like the universe just keeps giving me the finger.


Well darn it Ginger...The universe wants to give it to ya...maybe if you put down the finger on your hand... wink LOL

Maybe it's not so much about digging anymore, perhaps it's about just relaxing and truly enjoying what you have become and have now?
Maybe then the universe can give it to you when you cut that final string...
I believe that you will reach a point that you will attract that which you are and want...

I do hope you can see what you have and how much you have to offer...
White picket fences...is not all that...and it is a way to compare yourself to others...please my friend let that go...
Trust me, the more I dig, one really should question the "perfect" family that is marketed to us as well as the "American dream" etc...
No use in making oneself crazy comparing to that stuff...more fluff than stuff if you ask me.

You are already all that and a bag of chips...
You just gotta believe that.
Then you will attract that which you have worked for.

“Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking.”
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

“The reason people find it so hard to be happy is that they always see the past better than it was, the present worse than it is, and the future less resolved than it will be.”
Marcel Pagnol

True Happiness come from within yourself, not from someone else. don't make the mistake of waiting on someone or something to come along and make you happy.

PS, I have always been a bah-humbug kinda guy...and this year I have learned why...
STBXW was so involved with the commercialism of the season I lost the joy I had with the holidays...I was raised to enjoy it through service to others.
I am going to go back to that which provided joy and happiness...in giving...not a person and white picket stuff...

Just an idea to get out of the funk of the season and stir up a little inner peace and joy.

You are a wonderful person and you can be happy as you choose so
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 06:45 AM
SH-

The last few months of my life has been enjoying what I have become. I had actually told my therapist I am going to just stop and appreciate all the work I have done. I am happy with myself. perhaps not happy with what's externally going on around me (job, singledom, ect.), but I am happy with myself.

To speak to happiness, My thoughts have changed often on that subject, heavily discussed with my therapist. DB teaches happiness comes from within. Which I believe is true to a point. I believe we are responsible for seeking our own happiness. No other person can provide what makes us happy. However, when there is something that is a part of who you are that makes you happy and you are missing it, then it's something you need. A part of my soul and my inner core is human connection. Connecting with a partner on a deep and loving level. It's a part of my soul and who I am. So when that's missing, it makes me sad, but doesn't necessarily take away my happiness. If that makes sense. This is what my therapist deducted and I think she was spot on.

I know the white picket fence thing is not so real. I am watching people that are close to me have their white picket fence crumble. it makes me so sad. But take my ex and his W. I don't really know what goes on there. I know my ex still nasty. I know he is obsessed with playing this phone game and doesn't pay much attention to the people around him. I do however, think whatever him and OWW's relationship is, it works for them. The nastiness never worked for me. She, I think is fine with it.

I love the idea to service for others for the holiday season. I take a part in doing whatever I can to help out those less fortunate any opportunity that comes up. And if we didn't split the holiday, I would probably spend my day in a homeless shelter or at a children's hospital spreading some cheer. I used to like to work the Christmas eve shift into Christmas morning at the hospital. These poor people were critically ill and caring for them was paying it forward in such a time.

I love that you are making this holiday about giving to those who have less. That is often lost this time of the year.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 07:11 AM
I just want to add one more thing, because I like different view points and stimulating conversation....

The whole attract who we are and what we want.....

I don't believe in that so much. Then I'm a pretty broken individual if the guys who are attracted to me are a reflection of who I am.

And I don't think I am. I am a woman who put her pieces back together to make this pretty awesome person and I am also a woman who knows what she wants.

I attract broken men, weak men who are filled with fear and have no clue what they want or are too fearful to commit to it. Or I attract pervs and preists.

I don't think I am an ounce of what I have attracted my whole life.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 07:14 AM
Originally Posted By: Ginger1
SH-

To speak to happiness, My thoughts have changed often on that subject, heavily discussed with my therapist. DB teaches happiness comes from within. Which I believe is true to a point. I believe we are responsible for seeking our own happiness. No other person can provide what makes us happy. However, when there is something that is a part of who you are that makes you happy and you are missing it, then it's something you need. A part of my soul and my inner core is human connection. Connecting with a partner on a deep and loving level. It's a part of my soul and who I am. So when that's missing, it makes me sad, but doesn't necessarily take away my happiness. If that makes sense. This is what my therapist deducted and I think she was spot on.



I love what you wrote here! Relationship is the human condition. This is one of the reasons I am a Christian...if you believe the Bible, God created us because He wanted relationship. Wow, that means the creator of all things needs and wants a relationship with each one of us. That's powerful!If He needs it then why wouldn't I? There are many ways of obtaining relationship and a one to one with a partner in life is one most of us are drawn to. Your desires are human and worthy...and I think patience is key. Yes, we are responsible for our own happiness but there are many winding roads to follow in getting there.
Now, re: the white picket fence idea. I remembered a story a chaplain at work once told me. In the church she previously pastored there was a couple that seemed to be the ultimate "white picket fence" couple. She said after church one day she saw them walking home hand in hand and thought is was so beautiful. Later that day she received a call and the husband had stabbed the wife to death. Things aren't always as they seem.
Hang in there, enjoy the relationships that you have and smile because down the road, if you want it and put the work in, that which you seek will be yours smile
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 07:31 AM
Btw, just read your last post, and I'm glad you don't put much faith in the Law of Attraction stuff...it has always struck me as a blame the victim mentality. Good things happen because you control the universe and therefore bad things happen because YOU haven't sent out the right vibes. Isn't that the same as Job's friends telling him that he must have sinned and that's why bad things have happened to him! LOA is just "you didn't pray hard enough" in different packaging. I believe that God gives me what I ask of him...and that's not a partner or a white picket fence but it's the inner strength to do what I need to do. I got through my divorce by drawing on that love and by connecting with a church family...but that's me.
Btw, just a suggestion, if you feel you're attracting the wrong kind of guys online then look at your profile and change it around a bit and see what you get!
...and also I mean no disrespect to anyone who is following the LOA, that's just my humble opinion and I'm not looking to debate it with anyone.
Posted By: doodler Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 08:28 AM
Originally Posted By: whatisis
...and also I mean no disrespect to anyone who is following the LOA, that's just my humble opinion and I'm not looking to debate it with anyone.


whatisis,

I'm a Pastafarian; I'm not sure if we believe in LOA or not. In fact, I don't know what we believe in other than making silly quips and eating a high carbohydrate diet. I must've taken a wrong turn somewhere in life...
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 08:36 AM
Pasta La Vista, baby!
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 08:41 AM
LOA- I believe negativity attracts negativity and positivity attracts positivity. Attitude wise that is. But if something bad happens to me, I don't think it's something I attracted or deserve. What got me in a hole was the LOA. I kept trying to fix something that wasn't broken because of what I was attracting. But there is nothing broken anymore! There was a time I was more susceptible to crappy behaviors of others, but now I turn it away much better.

Relationships are the human condition. Intimate loving relationships are. Which I don't have right now. But I have other beautiful relationships in my life which I appreciate and nurture.

Even though I do not identify with a religion, I probably have Christian ways about me with a little Buddhism mixed in.

Doodler,
There are very minimal carbs in my life right now which might be where some of my depression stems from. And the carbs that are there are brown rice and quinoa.

Maybe all I need to do is attract a big plate of greasy cheese fries......

Oh yeahhhhhhh
Posted By: doodler Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 09:03 AM
Originally Posted By: Ginger1
There are very minimal carbs in my life right now which might be where some of my depression stems from. And the carbs that are there are brown rice and quinoa.

Maybe all I need to do is attract a big plate of greasy cheese fries......

Oh yeahhhhhhh


Ginger,

I second that! I feel better and my engine runs better on a high carb diet.
Posted By: SH_ Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 10:49 AM
Quote:
Btw, just read your last post, and I'm glad you don't put much faith in the Law of Attraction stuff...it has always struck me as a blame the victim mentality. Good things happen because you control the universe and therefore bad things happen because YOU haven't sent out the right vibes. Isn't that the same as Job's friends telling him that he must have sinned and that's why bad things have happened to him! LOA is just "you didn't pray hard enough" in different packaging. I believe that God gives me what I ask of him...and that's not a partner or a white picket fence but it's the inner strength to do what I need to do. I got through my divorce by drawing on that love and by connecting with a church family...but that's me.
Btw, just a suggestion, if you feel you're attracting the wrong kind of guys online then look at your profile and change it around a bit and see what you get!
...and also I mean no disrespect to anyone who is following the LOA, that's just my humble opinion and I'm not looking to debate it with anyone.


Whatsis,

Your thoughts on the loa in my opinion is more of a victim mentality...it would say that one stands around working on the self and then blaming all around them that which happens to them.
Much like a magnet in a junk yard trying to attract the one piece of metal that is good amongst the trash...
I understand the point that folks see it as an individual gets what they are and therefore attract...
I do not put stock in much as a simple law or beleif whether loa, religious beliefs, etc., on there own...often they seem too simplistic or based on fear and rewards.
But there is value in consistent principles...

My Jew of the LOA is that you must first be that which you would want to be attracted to...why should one think they can be with a hard working, athletic,successful person if they would rather be a lazy couch potatoe just taking handouts?
On the other hand, I think there are those that simply want a relationship with someone, but they do not know what they want in the other person so they try to accept anything until they cannot...or one has such high standards that they themself do not meet them.
Attraction is not a magnet pulling things to you because of how you think.
Attraction IMHO is being and working towards what you see as a progressive self and connecting with someone else that is also of the same belief...and accepting the details of differences that each know they can progress with in the other.

My point to Ginger, is that she will know in her heart what it is that she desires to be attracted too...when this can be more clear in ones thoughts and desires, they will be attracted to those things. Or identify quickly that it is not what they are attracted to and then walk away...no pain.

One cannot simply stand still and say that they are fixed, happy, and simply want....want a relationship, or a dream job, or happiness...they must believe in their heart they can obtain these things and then go after it.


Let's say you want a particular dream job.
You go to school for it.
You read books about it.
You say you are ready.
You put out a few resumes and do not get the job.
Are you upset now?
Are you unhappy now?
Do you blame a teacher, previous boss, or the universe for this?
If you maintain this pattern of thought can you attract or be attracted to the dream job?
Or do you get back to work learning some more, putting out more resumes, networking, and portraying a positive, happy,hard working vibe?
Let's say you finally get the job.
2 years into it you feel you have been doing a great job and have been progressing well. You have had a disagreement or two with a coworker and a boss. The business has made some changes and heads in a slightly different direction.
The boss approaches you and says that you will be let go because of differences in thoughts on the direction of things...
Do you get pissed and blame everything that led up to this?
Blame the boss
Blame the coworker
Blame the business changing directions
Do you give up on all the work and efforts you have put in this far?
Do you take on the role of the victim as you mention, or do you keep your thoughts and actions and attitudes positive so as to attract or be attracted to another opportunity?
Maybe you choose to change course and go another direction...

Now apply this to a meaningful relationship...
I don't think I will need to spell it out, I imagine you can get the point.

I see life more as a law of averages in obtaining anything.
So my thought on laws of averages...
If you truely know what you desire and want...
Then go get it.
Believe that you can...
If you go after it frequently enough you create choices...
Relationships are no different than anything else in life...
Meet 3 people and almost connect with one...
You can then stop and lament not being able to find a relationship
Or meet 3 per week for as long as needed and identify many that you could be attracted to and create a meaningful relationship...and make many other friends along the way.
But one needs to know what they are attracted to first, and then able to identify these qualities early in with the other person and then decide what you will do next.

Be what you are attracted to
See what you are attracted to
Seek after what you are attracted to

These are key elements in finding that which we are and are attracted to.

Do not be a victim
Do not lament the bad things that can happen to you or have happened to you
Be what you would want to be attracted to and then do the work so that the laws of averages work in your favor.
Happiness is a journey, not a destination
Happiness is a choice, an action...the examples in cancer wards, children's hospitals, even previously divorced people that are living their lives down the road are examples of being happy, from within, as opposed to circumstance.


My 2c, in respect to Gingers request for conversation of different view points.

PS Ginger, I as well follow Christianity, Buddhaism, Muslim, agnostic, etc...
And science...
I seek the common principles amongst all of the teachings and thoughts.
For me when they all merge, I see light and wisdom...
I also continue to challenge my own beliefs and opinions, and in doing so much clarity comes with it.
For me and relationships...
If something happens to me once or even twice, I see it as a random coincidence...
If it "happens" to me many times, I have to see that I am the common factor...
I am not broke, but I may need some fine tuning as to what is perceived of me by others...this is a principle as it relates to my thoughts on working on myself and being attracted to others
If what I have believed or stand firm with does lead me to peace, calm and progress...then I must challenge it.
Hopefully I have shared some ideas that can help you question things that may hold you back from what you are working towards...
A common principle in all that I seek is, do not give up, and change what you do slightly if it is not getting you the results you seek.
Thomas Edison is a good mentor for this.

Clear as mud, eh? My thoughts crazy
Posted By: SH_ Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 10:57 AM
Spell check alert...
My view of the LOA (not "my Jew")

Does not lead me to peace (not, "does lead me to peace")

Fat fingers and stoopid spell check whistle
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 12:40 PM
OK SH, I suggest we settle this the Pastafarian way with wet noodles at twenty paces...and doodler is my second lol.
Posted By: SH_ Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 01:01 PM
whatsis...
Before we duel, tell me...

Do you believe in the Pastafarian Spaghetti Monster?
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 01:07 PM
I'll check with Pope doodler, I'm new to the faith and quite noodleistic!
Posted By: SH_ Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 01:52 PM
whatsis....
Look within for your faith in the monster...
Ask yourself why the planets are shaped like meatballs...
There you will find the answer and also your belief in all that is Pastafarian. wink

grin laugh cool
Posted By: doodler Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 02:01 PM
Originally Posted By: SH_
Do you believe in the Pastafarian Spaghetti Monster?


Do you mean there are nonbelievers? How can you not believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster? He has two huge meatballs; he has to be real.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 02:55 PM
I'm a vegetarian!
Posted By: doodler Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 03:41 PM
I didn't say that I want to eat his b@lls. That's gross!

Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 05:09 PM
Hold on a second...

Do I have a bunch of guys eating eacother's b@lls on my thread, here?

Story of my life.

I swear, it was not what I was trying to attract, although amusing.
Posted By: SH_ Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/13/16 05:47 PM
No worries whatsis...
There is a vegetarian meatball monster for you to enjoy with the pope doodler, your second... wink
Tofu or some such... laugh
Ginger!!!

Behave yourself young lady!!!
Posted By: doodler Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/14/16 05:54 AM
Originally Posted By: Ginger1
Do I have a bunch of guys eating eacother's b@lls on my thread, here?

Story of my life.

I swear, it was not what I was trying to attract, although amusing.


Do you feel like you're going nuts?

Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/14/16 06:03 AM
Originally Posted By: SH_
No worries whatsis...
There is a vegetarian meatball monster for you to enjoy with the pope doodler, your second... wink
Tofu or some such... laugh
Ginger!!!

Behave yourself young lady!!!



I was talking about meatballs, I don't know what was on your mind.

I ate a slice of pizza last night and I blame on you guys.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/14/16 06:33 AM
You had pizza...I went Xmas shopping with my ex last night and have no one to blame but myself lol. (Actually, it was a nice evening)
Posted By: SH_ Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/14/16 05:01 PM
Quote:
I was talking about meatballs, I don't know what was on your mind.

I ate a slice of pizza last night and I blame on you guys.


I was talking about behaving so Santa will leave something under the tree for ya...
What was on your mind? confused

Was it a slice of meatball pizza...?

Double workout on tap for you now eh!? wink
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/15/16 07:33 AM
Guys, I realized something:

I lost my mojo. This is awful. My sparking personality is very dull right now. I seriously laughed in weeks.

I must remedy this, fast.

I'm seeing a friend after a not seeing her for a while tonight. We are the friends that just crack each other up. I am hoping this removes me from this awful funk.

I miss myself!
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/15/16 07:34 AM
"I HAVEN'T seriously laughed in weeks"
Posted By: doodler Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/15/16 07:43 AM
Ginger,

Do you feel like you're stranded on a desert island with a handful of goofballs?

If you've lost your mojo, then doodler's prescription is to watch a movie, specifically "Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me." By watching that deeply philosophical movie you will learn how to regain the essence of your being.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/15/16 12:06 PM
I am willing to try anything.

desperate time calls for desperate measures.

^^^^^ no humor or wittiness in my response. Not good.
Posted By: doodler Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/15/16 01:49 PM

Tomorrow night I'm going to throw on my little black dress and go dancing. You can come along if you'd like.
Posted By: SH_ Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/15/16 04:52 PM
Originally Posted By: doodler

Tomorrow night I'm going to throw on my little black dress and go dancing. You can come along if you'd like.



Ohh beehave...(insert British accent)...heeheee...yeah...yeah baby!!!! teehee....oww!!!
Posted By: uRworthy Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/15/16 06:48 PM
You know what, G, sometimes we are just sad. And I don't think we always necessarily have to freakin name it and identify it and all that. Sometimes we just are and it's ok.

You want something in your life that you are missing. You had it for awhile and it felt good and you want it again. Aint nothing wrong with that.

And I am all for looking inward and figuring out what we feel. But sometimes I just feel down because life gets to be alot. I feel down because my son is struggling, I am a mess financially, my health isnt great and that I have very little family.

None of that shows a lacking in me. I give myself permission to feel that way because I can. smile As long as I don't live there.

This is a hard time of year for you. Hard for me for a lot of reasons. I had myself a good cry today. Wish I could say it shook all the sadness, but, it didnt.

I also know I will feel good again. That's the thing about life, right? All these moments are always changing. Nothing stays the same.

And I agree, I think positivity attracts positivity. But sometimes, you get a priest who wants to tongue kiss or a plumber who...whatever he wanted. Absolutely no reflection on you. They are who they are. You stumbled upon them.

I also think that most of us are broken in some way or another. I think when we get put back together, the cracks are stronger somehow, but, the scars, while they fade, they still exist some.

I am so happy to read that you like you. I am happy you have your girl and friends and your dad. I wish that you had someone who can appreciate you for the amazing woman you are because I know how much you want that. I also know you will one day. I know it without a single doubt. When it is supposed to happen. When it is the right time. When you are really and truly ready and your life is.

I wish I could take the sad away for you. But, I know you also experience great joy.

You are so hard on yourself. I feel like you feel that it isnt ok to feel the way you do. And all feelings are valid. It's the actions on those feelings that matter.

I was thinking today that it is time for me to make another change. It's the only way that things move. It could be a little one, though, for me, it may have to be a bit bigger.

You are on a new path with school. I am thinking that will lead you somewhere different.

Keep going, G. Keep moving forward. There is a shift coming for you. I can feel it. Be open to the possibilities. Til then....keep being you. <3
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/16/16 10:00 AM
As always, UR, you have a way of getting in my head and expressing exactly what I am feeling better than I even could. It's amazing. I am simply awfully sad. There is a slew of reasons, I don't need to pinpoint it, I'm just sitting over here feeling it.

I have been isolating myself from my friends and I haven't been going out. Last night was my first night out with friends in a long time and it felt good. I laughed. I wasn't completely myself, but I felt much better being with them. I just don't do well telling people how I am really feeling when I get sad. I'm not comfortable with it for some reason. I don't tell my dad, or my best friend, and I distance myself.

The only thing I have been wanting to do is go to the gym. I go 5 days a week with the same crew which are great great people. D9 has become part of our group to and she even takes class with us sometimes. I check my sadness at the door when I go there.

Aside from that, the only person I have been really looking forward to spending time with lately is daughter. My 9 year old little girl. So maybe that is the way it is meant to be now.

It's a catch 22 finally liking myself. I still feel like there must be something unlovable about me because I have been alone for so long and I have been rejected so many times, or I attract weirdos. So I go back over the inventory and I am ok as I am. There is nothing wrong with me. I don't think so, anyways, lol.

An yup, I feel bad for feeling the way I do. I have my daughter, our health and a roof over our head. I feel as if that should be enough. But I feel as if life is playing some messed up trick on me sometimes.

I am sorry you are having a hard time too, UR. I want to take your sad away too. I know there will be a shift for both of us. Change is surely needed right now. We never lay down and quite no matter how hard things get. We keep fighting. Even if we are tired. Because we know what we are capable of:)
Posted By: Vanilla Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/17/16 02:50 PM
Originally Posted By: doodler

Tomorrow night I'm going to throw on my little black dress and go dancing. You can come along if you'd like.



That's what I did


V
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/17/16 08:04 PM
V- I'd go out with dancing with Doodler in his little black dress.... only if he goes commando!

God, I'm bad.

Today was a lovely day with the kiddo. She did however bring up out of nowhere, that she missed ex-ng and his daughter and brought up some memories. They didn't spend much time together..... but I guess maybe it was a taste of something she wanted too. I've been doing a much better job of putting him in my past..... but I did get a little sad.

There are some situations going on in my life I can't mention here..... and they are taking a toll on me too. A few relationships in my life are changing and it's also making me sad.

Adulting stinks sometimes.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/17/16 08:09 PM
D9 did make me watch this awful ABC family Christmas movie.... It was horribly drawn out, but the premise was decent. About leaving the past in the past, accepting things aren't how we planned or wanted it to be, and to just take things as they come. And to have faith in fate.
Posted By: kat727 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/18/16 11:05 AM
Sounds like it was made for you! Have faith kiddo. I know letting go can be hard, especially when you pin all of your hopes and dreams on one person but they aren't the one. I believe he was there to let you know that you could feel all of those feelings again.

Now that you know that, just let it come to you. You keep trying so hard but you keep stubbing your toe. Have faith that he is out there but just doesn't know he is looking for you yet! (I tell myself that at least once a week).

You've got this!

kat
Posted By: doodler Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/19/16 05:26 AM
Originally Posted By: Ginger1
V- I'd go out with dancing with Doodler in his little black dress.... only if he goes commando!


Is there any other way to properly wear a little black dress?
Posted By: Underdog Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/19/16 11:35 AM
Ginger sister,

I saved my bah humbug sister for last. I've been deliberately absent from the alt since the election (I'm still not sure I like my extended family and some friends) and not feeling like I had anything to contribute here either.

Man, I understand the part about missing myself. I've been disconnected like that from time to time. It's very much like stopping exercising. You find yourself out of rhythm and unable to get back into it, and even with effort, things just derail the whole effort and it becomes depressing.

Until recently, I can't remember a time when the holidays were joyful for me. My mom had some very personal baggage that she brought to the holidays, but it was the opposite. Because an event brought extreme sadness to her soul, she went NUTS for Christmas to overcompensate. Everything had to be perfect. I didn't understand why, and I also spent my entire time growing up not understanding why I dreaded the holidays.

Then in 1984, my late brother hung himself on Christmas Eve, and I found him. He obviously lived, but it ruined Christmas for my sister and me (and her boyfriend at the time, who was with me fetching cokes when we found him in the noose). I just seemed to carry this cloak of sadness with me my entire life. While everyone else liked to party, I liked to avoid. Mr. W. loved (and still loves) Christmas as much as I loathed it, and thankfully, I let him do his thing because it was good for our girls.

And then again, bomb day on 12/18/2002 just added to my malaise. By then, I had absolutely no desire to pretend anymore. When I found myself in IC back then, my IC told me that I owed it to my girls to not give them my legacy. So I went through the motions for years. Somewhere in between then and now (closer to now), I realized how very much my D22 loved Christmas. Not for the gifts, but for the visible reminder of the season and for her joy in spending time with us. I think it became obvious to me (finally) after she had gone away to college.

Last year, I got away with not decorating at all - because I moved right after New Year's and we spent the holiday at Mr. Wonderful's (who had, of course, decorated to the hilt). I actually felt horrible about it. She didn't get to say goodbye to her childhood house with that memory. So when she told me she was coming home this year, I decided to go.all.out. I started before Thanksgiving, and my house is decked out - with two trees LOL. I send her photos and she's BEYOND excited to come home.

That being said, there is nothing I will say to you to get you to move past this. Because my issues are connected to my past, and won't be swept aside by some lights and garland, I have been keeping my gratitude journal since November 1. It literally keeps me focused on reconnecting with myself. One day was horrible - the only thing I was grateful for was that the day was over. I'm not ashamed to admit that.

The good news is that Christmas will be over in one week, and just maybe, you can clear your head at that point. For some insane reason, I always felt my cloud lift as soon as the holiday was in the rear view mirror... and then I allowed myself to mentally consider what I wanted for the coming year.

I also consider myself to have a Buddhist and spiritualist component to my Christianity. I'm not at all conflicted by my belief system, and how I live my life is generally in synch with those values. I'm sure people at my church who don't know me would be distressed by that, but that's not my problem, is it? I don't think we need to have a label or be put in a box to figure this stuff out.

My only advice to you is to give yourself permission to feel this way until... you don't. Maybe it would help you to acknowledge setbacks but also to acknowledge baby steps too. Allow yourself the humanity of this mess. We're all flawed, and we all have things that bring us joy as well as sadness. Without the valleys, I don't appreciate the peaks as much as I should.

FWIW, my sister hates Christmas. Her husband puts up a mini tree just because he likes the reminder, and he'd do more, but their 8 cats destroy his efforts. Anyway, she's managed to cope about as well as I have, and she's still not over our childhood wounds. It is what it is?

Call me if you just need to vent. I'm more than OK with that.

Love you, girl.

Betsey
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/20/16 08:48 AM
Kat- thank you for that! I really needed to hear that, I am able to love again, not only him, even his child, and most importantly, it taught me I could love someone else while loving MYSELF. The self component was also lost in other relationships, especially with my ex. I have been trying, and I have been stubbing my toe, because I was told I need to try and it isn't just going ot fall into my lap. Well, now I am ready for it to come to me. When it does, I'll nurture it, but I am not going to try so hard anymore. We've both got this kat, we just need to keep the faith.

Betsey!!!!! It is so good hear from you, I was afraid you fell off the earth, boy can I hear you on that political thing.

You sure have had a rough go around this time of year. I know many of us had, and it doesn't carry the same innocence anymore. My mom was a non-practicing Jew who would refuse to participate in anything Christmas growing up. My dad tried to give me the best experience on his own, we had out own traditions, but with my mother's illness/addiction, she wanted nothing to do with anything. I remember pleasing with her to help decorate the tree and she just didn't want to and would go in her room and read a book. So, no matter how much I despise it, I try to give it to my D the best I can. But I do give myself the permission to jut not like this time of the year. I thought there might be some revival with the birth of my daughter, but we got one Christmas together when she was first born, and every one of her life has been and will be split thereafter. My D began telling me all about how she needs to sleep on the airmatress because OWW's and her whole family will be sleeping over on Christmas eve to morning. I never ever do it anymore, but I had to tell D9 to stop describing everything to me. I said it in a sweet way and she understood. I couldn't listen anymore. The thought of OWW's family watching MY daughter's excitement on when she see's what Santa brought her, probably on the last year she will believe, hurt me too bad. Angered me.

I hit pretty deep yesterday with my IC. I let out frustration and anger I had towards a particular situation. I realized I had become angry again, and emotion I hadn't felt in a long time. Angry at situations. Angry at other people's choices. Sad for other people going through some really rough times they didn't ask for.

See, on losing myself, "growing up" on these boards has colored my perception of marriage, commitment, and happiness. These boards preach what is the opposite of happening in our society right now. it's simply the truth. The expectations out of marriage and commitment is not what it used to be. People want more more more. Are willing to sacrifice and hurt others at the risk of finding this unicorn. It really is just what reality is now. Maybe there are more demands financially, in our work lives, in out parenting lives to make being happy and staying with one partner too difficult, I don't know. I guess meeting these demands are not fulfilling.

But really, the problem is, I believed a lot of what these boards preached. healing between marriages and relationships, not jumping right in to the next, taking time to healing and getting to know themselves, doing inner work to figure out what we from ourselves and in a partner and in a committed relationship. learning what our needs and expectations are, evaluating them, seeing if they are obtainable and sustainable.

But truth be told, it really doesn't work that way anymore. And I feel committed to principles in a society that doesn't. (Hey, Zues!). I am an old soul in a modern world. It's known I have dated a few DB'ers. Even though it didn't work out, maybe it was because we clicked on values. I felt like these men were the ones who were on the same length and understood everything we had gone through on a deep level and that's where I fostered that intimacy (ex-NG was not a DB'er, although, friends with some)

So, I think this is where I lost myself. Watching everyone around me do the opposite of DB preaches and wondering if maybe I should go that way. If I should feel that way. If I'm the one waiting for the magical unicorn. If there is something wrong with me, because I can't transfer feelings so easily or let go or know when to throw in the towel.

That was a whole lot of rambling, and who knows if any of that makes sense. But it has been something I have been struggling with big time. My IC told me not to let go of my values. So that was reassuring.

I miss you Bets. We definitely need to catch up and vent, and BS, and laugh. I am sure your D22 is so excited to come home and all that decoration will make it that much more special, even though we might say "bah-humbug"

Thank you, to whoever followed that one!
Posted By: Underdog Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/20/16 10:26 AM
Since I'm 2 hours behind you, feel free to buzz me any time. I miss you too. Actually, I miss a lot of you.

Innocence lost. I think that's a really observant comment, Ginger.

Quote:
I couldn't listen anymore. The thought of OWW's family watching MY daughter's excitement on when she see's what Santa brought her, probably on the last year she will believe, hurt me too bad. Angered me.


I actually think this is a good boundary. Your D9 is now old enough to understand cause and effect and I think it's totally fair of you to ask for this boon.

The anger thing sounds like it surprised you, no? Just remember that anger is a very useful tool to propel us to make changes. A call to action, if you will. I have no doubt that you and your IC will use this to help you move forward.

What do you think about taking the best of the DB principles and applying them when needed, and using your excellent intuition to take control of the wheel? I don't think it's in any one of our natures here to be a constant submissive in all processes in our lives. I won't deny that it's helped me tamp down an ever emerging desire for control, but there really are times and circumstances that need leadership. Don't run from them!

Before you compare yourself to your friends... it's really easy to see your friends in wholesome, equitable marriages and truly happy, Ginger. I don't think it's our place to be circumspect about others' marriages, but I'll share my telescope with you since I'm 54 and am a decade+ ahead of you on this path. At 40, I was the first of my friends and big circle to separate and ultimately divorce. At 54, I can't tell you how many friends have jumped in the pool. Some extremely close friends whose marriages seemed solid have fallen apart. I guess I'm surprised that these people made it through some extraordinarily tough times only to call it quits later down the road. Some are agreeable and others are acrimonious.

What I'm saying is that in 10 years, you're going to have company in your boat. You'll probably add a few very close friends. And if they ultimately reconcile, there will be hardships in marriages among your friends. Of my core college friends (there are 4 of us), only one is truly happily married. Two of us are divorced and one is status quo (her husband is miserable, though). So... don't think that you will be the odd man out for the rest of your life, okay?

And BTW, I actually understood your entire post. grin Your perceived dysfunction makes sense to me LOL.

And one side note, I really can't manage bah humbug this year. For some reason, I really am happy this year. The girls and I had a really good Thanksgiving with my family in DC, and we did stuff together - walked through Arlington National Cemetery, "visited" those relatives who are 6 feet under (or above Haha), went out to dinner, saw A Christmas Carol at Ford's Theater (my treat) and a political satire comedy. We all agreed at the end of the weekend that we would much rather give time to spend with each other as gifts than buying crap. It seemed like a major rubicon to cross.

Then D19 played the Ghost of Christmas Future (because she can point super well and the role doesn't require speaking LOL). For whatever reason, I'm really trying to focus on the little happy things. Because outside of them, work svcks, my clients are not spending money thanks to the election results and I'm generally agitated. The blinders seem to help.

One last thing:

Quote:
So, no matter how much I despise it, I try to give it to my D the best I can.


This is all you can do, and you do it really well. So give yourself a big old pat on the back. You're not repeating your mom with your D9. You're aware of that, and I think that's a conscious decision and super evolved. I did the same for years. But I'll tell you that come New Year's day, my house was wiped clean of all traces of Christmas. I might do that this year too, but I've had all these decorations up since mid November LOL. I don't think D22 is aware of how difficult it was for me to muster the energy to do that. But then again, that was my goal.

You're a great mom, Ginger.

xxxooo
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/20/16 11:02 AM
Originally Posted By: Underdog


What I'm saying is that in 10 years, you're going to have company in your boat. You'll probably add a few very close friends. And if they ultimately reconcile, there will be hardships in marriages among your friends. Of my core college friends (there are 4 of us), only one is truly happily married. Two of us are divorced and one is status quo (her husband is miserable, though). So... don't think that you will be the odd man out for the rest of your life, okay?



What has seriously rocked me is that they ARE jumping in my boat. They are in it, but not the same way I got in it, if you get what I mean. They chose to get in it. It's sooooo hard to watch and understand and empathize with.

I haven't felt anger in a long time. And you are so right, I need to pay attention to it. I need to use it for growth. That's exactly what I'm going to do.

Again, very genius advice on choosing what DB principles to use to live by. I'm using them to try to help friends, but let me tell you, it doesn't work for other people who don't know what it's about. They think you are a little nuts or "strict" But I am going to use personally what helped me in conjunction with strong intuition. I let my DB background get into way too deep of analysis. hence where the innocence is lost.

Funny enough, the one thing I probably do that is till innocent is I go into a new relationship or whatever they have been in my lives on a basis of trust. new people get a clean slate and I leave the baggage of what my ex did at the relationship door as far as cheating. If it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen, and I am not going to live waiting for it or trying to stop it.

And to close off my too much rambling, I am glad you aren't forcing yourself to be happy, Sounds like the holiday seasons have been enjoyable. Take it all in. it feels good. Maybe there has been a shift.
Posted By: doodler Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/20/16 12:02 PM
Originally Posted By: Ginger1
What has seriously rocked me is that they ARE jumping in my boat. They are in it, but not the same way I got in it, if you get what I mean. They chose to get in it. It's sooooo hard to watch and understand and empathize with.


Ginger,

Did your friends have an affair or did they just decide that they weren't happy in their marriage? I'm asking because I'm curious about their mindset.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/20/16 12:08 PM
Originally Posted By: doodler
Originally Posted By: Ginger1
What has seriously rocked me is that they ARE jumping in my boat. They are in it, but not the same way I got in it, if you get what I mean. They chose to get in it. It's sooooo hard to watch and understand and empathize with.


Ginger,

Did your friends have an affair or did they just decide that they weren't happy in their marriage? I'm asking because I'm curious about their mindset.



I unfortunately can't address this on here:(
Posted By: doodler Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/20/16 12:15 PM
Originally Posted By: Ginger1
I unfortunately can't address this on here:(


No problem, I understand.
Posted By: Dawgs Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/20/16 01:44 PM
Quote:
So, I think this is where I lost myself. Watching everyone around me do the opposite of DB preaches and wondering if maybe I should go that way. If I should feel that way. If I'm the one waiting for the magical unicorn. If there is something wrong with me, because I can't transfer feelings so easily or let go or know when to throw in the towel.


I haven't posted in this thread or forum before, but this rings true with me. Is there room in that same boat for another?
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/23/16 08:31 AM
I want to wish you all a very happy holiday and I hope the new year brings new wonderful adventures for you all.

I'm going to peace out for a while. The situations going on IRL is making the stuff here tougher. So I am going to just check out for a while.

Love you all, and most of you know where to find me.
Posted By: job Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/23/16 09:13 AM
Ginger,

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your little girl. I hope that the new year will bring more peace and happiness.
Posted By: doodler Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/23/16 12:51 PM
Ginger,

You have a wonderful holiday as well, and I'll keep my little black dress handy if you'd like to go dancing.
Posted By: DonH Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/23/16 06:21 PM
I Wish I knew where to find you! I even tried to send a PM but that is even turned off. I'd love to be able to keep in touch though.

Merry Christmas.

Don, I am sorry that I had to remove your hints for your contact info, but one of the policies is not sharing private contact information, even if you are giving out hints. Here is what the policy states: "Exchanging private contact information with other users is not allowed."

The PM system on this forum has never been activated.
Posted By: Dawgs Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/23/16 09:08 PM
Ginger, hope you have a great Christmas and
Posted By: Dawgs Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/23/16 09:37 PM
There I go again hitting submit too early! Argh. I hope your holidays are joyous and peaceful. Fair winds and followings ears, my friend.
Posted By: Dawgs Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/23/16 09:38 PM
**seas, not ears, damnit!
Posted By: bttrfly Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/24/16 10:30 AM
Merry Christmas Ginger xoxoxo {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}
Posted By: mustardseed Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/25/16 11:24 AM
Ginger, I have noticed that married woman around me have been so intrigued by what I am doing in my "single life". They are envious. They get so excited when they give me suggestions. I went from people feeling pity, or being nosy, to trying to live vicariously through me. Of course, except for the dating there is nothing that I am doing that they couldn't do. It's funny though, how we put restrictions on ourselves when we are married. I am trying to plan mom's nights out for these unhappy but committed women. I wonder if things would have been different if I gave myself that sort of time when I was married.

I am really enjoying OLD. But I am still not yet looking for love--just for fun outings and new friends. I'm learning a lot about myself in this process and about the kind of men I am drawn to--and why. Maybe I should start sharing my stories like you and Doodle. I enjoy reading them.
Posted By: DonH Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/25/16 01:39 PM
Yes, mustard seed, please do share your OLD stories. Just the statement "I'm really enjoying OLD" is foreign to me and some of the others here, ginger included, as I'm not sure we've "enjoyed it" much if at all. I've personally been doing much much better and enjoying non old much more lately. Do tell.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/29/16 06:51 AM
I wrote a long update and I lost it....

So I'll keep it short and sweet. Holidays were good and there was no tears for the first time in 8 years. I got a little melancholy, but I got over it. My ex wanted to hang out with me.... with our daughter of course... but you could tell he actually wanted to spend time with me. He even dressed nice and put on cologne and we all went out to dinner. he was upset that I wanted to be home by a certain time to go to the gym. he did call me skinny I almost thought he was going to pay..... but in true ex fashion, he split that bill right down the middle.

The plumber contacted me yesterday. he was at my house. Doing work on the neighbor. he wants to see me. he likes me. Wants to date again. Don was right. ha! Don't know how I feel about this. I told him what turned me off, I came right out with it.

And..... I am ending my 10 week gym/nutrition challenge tomorrow. I'm doing the next challenge. But we did before and after pictures yesterday and I am kind of shocked. I lost 4 lbs, but my body has certainly transformed. I couldn't believe it. I tend to build muscle, and I am actually kind of cut now, but that's why the scale doesn't mean anything. I'll be posting the pics on FB tomorrow. I'm proud of me. Happy for all the new friends I have made.

I've got some great new years eve plans I am looking forward too. All the same people as last year, minus one, lol. I'm going to have a blast and allow myself to drinka nd eat unhealthy things.

Thanks for all the well wishes. I'm doing pretty good. Better than I had thought I was, haha!
Posted By: DonH Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/29/16 10:34 AM
So great to hear from you Ginger. I'd say I was half-right. I really thought he would have contacted you way sooner than this. Perhaps just like WAW or WH, it's partly the holidays? I'm sure he's still interested, just less sure why he waited this long. I think whether you try dating him again or not you for positive certain did the right thing by just telling him the truth. I know I'd much rather hear that than the guessing game I'm forced to play most times. Here's why I'm not that interested: Be nice but be honest. Great job.

Since I kept promising and I know you've asked, I just did a huge update on my thread if you want to catch up. Hope you enjoy the NYE party!
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/30/16 06:41 AM
Hey Don! I bet he waited until after the holiday because he didn't want to have to buy a present!!!

So, this is what I did. I told him exactly the way things were. I told him how I felt about the things he said and how I felt disrespected and like he talked to me like one of the guys. he further goes to tell me he doesn't think that's why I wasn't interested anymore. I told him it absolutely was. he is convinced otherwise because he thinks there are always going ot be things that bother eachother does that the other might not like and that's not a reason to be together. and he said something to the effect of bringing those up later rather than earlier. Which I told him makes no sense to wait to bring up things that makes the other feel uncomfortable. However, he is completely convinced it has nothing to do with what I said it had to do with! He said it had to do with the "strong independent women types". I was like "what?!" he said he would have to explain in person. I said I needed to hear this theory. We are going out for a drink tonight which may be a big mistake, but curiosity is killing me. This is my life! A very sad dating life!

On a better note, I did 1000 reps of really tough exercises in just over 30 min. I was so proud I showed my sheet to everyone. I even sent to exh because we used to work out together. He was pretty impressed and even came on facetime when D9 called to tell me so.

D9 now has an ipad at his house. Which means she calls me first thing in the morning, 3 times during the day and once before bed, lol. I am touched that she calls me so much. She never calls her dad when she is with me.

So, this new years eve I will be kissing the dog. I am so excited for my plans, but it's going to be a little difficult to be all the same couples, minus who was my other half last year. it was nice getting kissed at midnight last year. Eh, I was stone cold sober last year because I agreed to drive because we had the kids. This year, I most certainly will not be:)
Posted By: kml Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/30/16 06:51 AM
Quote:
I bet he waited until after the holiday because he didn't want to have to buy a present!!!


Yes, this is definitely a thing!

Quote:
However, he is completely convinced it has nothing to do with what I said it had to do with! He said it had to do with the "strong independent women types".


No! Do not go out with this guy! A man who thinks a woman who won't sleep with him is because she's one of those dad gum independent women and NOT because his behavior was offensive to you? Please. Not a good guy.
Posted By: bttrfly Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/30/16 12:01 PM
well, he sure manipulated his way into seeing you again, didn't he? I'd avoid this guy just on that score alone.

What a putz.

I am glad you are out of your funk. Congrats on your fitness goals - bet you look Fabulous Dahlink!

I'm glad you have plans you're looking forward to for NYE. Enjoy and stay safe xoxoxo
Posted By: bttrfly Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/30/16 12:02 PM
(oh, he's the putz, not you, just to be clear)
Posted By: job Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/30/16 12:19 PM
Ginger,

Please do not go out w/this guy. He knew how to bait the hook to get you to go out for a drink. He could have told you what he meant over the phone...but he chose to ask you to go out. He's not going to change and yes, he is a putz!
Posted By: DonH Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/30/16 04:18 PM
I have to agree. A month ago I was in favor of giving him a second chance. Second chance given - no third chances.

Things is, it sounded like you already agreed and it was happening very soon? Just don't let him con you any further - or just say you changed your mind. smile
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/30/16 05:30 PM
Ginger, never tell a guy you've dated a couple of times why you don't want to continue. All you owe him is "I don't feel we're a match" and that's it. You owe him nothing. He's acting like this was some big relationship and the issues need to be worked out. They don't! Job is right, don't do it...there's nothing to be gained from it and it could go bad fast.
Posted By: Vanilla Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/31/16 08:10 AM
Just bye, nice to know you, tra la, au revoir, there is the door.

Go get em.

Next, gorgeous lovely, newly sassed and buff.

Go date and enjoy.

Happy New Year Ginger1.

V
Posted By: JujuB Re: Bah-Humbug - 12/31/16 10:55 AM
Ginger, I can't wait for your update on Your night out for drinks.


I can totally envision this guy and the conversation. You called him out on something and he's probably not used to that. And that's why your one of those independent ladies. Haha. Good for you.

I agree with everyone though. He's wheezleing another date out of ya!

Even though it's hard to believe there are nice guys out there. Don't settle for less.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/02/17 07:57 PM
Hey, Happy New Years, my friends! I haven't been on the boards and just saw all your advice.

So yes, I saw him. We had dinner. It was OK. We talked some about things. He was indeed pissed that I didn't go to his house that night. he thought I was taking some attitude of "screw him, I don't need him" which is the strong independent thing he was talking about. I told him I don't need him. He is right. It's a matter of wanting in this stage in my life. he seemed to understood that. I won't take you through the whole deal. But he seems to be really into me, wants me to meet his friends and stuff. I really don't know what I am going to do. I don't know how I feel. I really don't know.

No one ever pursued me before. No one. Ever. usually, we end things and they are on to the next person in 2 seconds and don't bother with me. Maybe a part of me enjoys the pursing. Maybe a part of me is trying to fill a need in an unhealthy way. I really don't know. SO I am going to cut myself some slack while I really try to figure it out.

I had the best NYE. Best time. And having a certain someone missing from the party didn't really affect me. I was good with being the single amongst all the couples. Because they are all great and we all click perfectly and are family to me.

However, I saw a picture of that someone with his girlfriend for the first time. It hurt worse than I thought. The only consolation was that he looked miserable. And that's not nice of me.

I shocked myself with my fitness achievements. I am hoping to achieve even more. I am really enjoying the friendship I am developing with my gym buddies. We have some fun stuff planned as a group.

In this new year I think I am just going to continue on the road to my goals. I feel good. I have done a lot with my life. There is one thing I haven't done I NEED to do, and I am still trying to figure out how to achieve that goal.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/02/17 09:21 PM
This guy has the intelligence of a rock! He thought you don't need him...well, after just a couple of dates why on earth would you NEED him? WTF? He was pissed that you wouldn't go to his house...and now he wants you to meet his friends...huh? You also said previously that there was no intellectual stimulation at all when you're with him. Where's the attraction here? Being pursued by a cave man is honestly below you! Move on, G. Flush the plumber. That's my vote...not that you asked.
Posted By: kml Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/02/17 10:25 PM
Yeah, dump him. Sure it's nice to be pursued; but the kind of pursuing that includes him being pissed you won't come to his house on a second (third?) date????

That's the kind of pursuing that's just all about getting laid.

He's clever, he suckered you into that date by challenging you to prove you weren't "too independent " or a feminist snob. Now he's enticing you with promises of introducing you to his friends.

Seriously: on this date, how much sincere interest did he show in your life?

He doesn't give me a good feeling.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/03/17 06:33 AM
Point Taken.
Posted By: job Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/03/17 12:29 PM
I hate to say this, but I do agree w/the other posts. Flush the plumber down the toilet. I may be an oldie, but I have never heard of someone getting that angry w/someone just because they didn't come to their house after a couple of dates. This man sounds like he's got some anger issues as well as "control". I don't have a good feeling about him. Now, he's dangling the carrot of introducing you to some of his friends...nope, not a good sign when he continue to dangle carrots to get you to continue seeing him.

Ginger, you deserve so much better and no one should need to dangle carrots to get you to go out w/them.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/03/17 12:59 PM
I didn't mean to come off so pissy. I just can't even process anything right now. I'm having a bad day.

It's not going to work, for a bunch of reasons. No anger issues. I don't even think control issues. We just don't see eye to eye on roles I think. But he isn't really doing anything for me, so it's over.

Do I deserve better? I don't even know anymore. I seriously wonder if I am simply getting what I deserve.

For now, I've got an over-full plate, so I'll just stick to that.

Thanks:)
Posted By: Vanilla Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/03/17 02:04 PM
Sweetie

This is really scary. Listen to V carefully.

There are frying pans and fires.

This is a blast furness. It has danger all over it.

V
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/04/17 09:01 AM
I'd chase you, G...but doodler and that little black dress has kind of captured my attention!
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/04/17 10:49 AM
I know you would, WII, but men in little black dresses are kind of irresistible.

I haven't heard from the plumber in over a day. it's the same crap, he wants me to chase him. Not in the mood, it's done.

I've coached a family member through her issues in her A today. This is my life. My compassion is not there for that.

My heart is so very tired. I'm so very tired.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/04/17 01:41 PM
G, the plumber was hurt...that's why he chased you again 'cuz he couldn't handle hearing why you didn't want him. He had to try and win you over. He may call again but I think you know there's no spark there. That's OK. It's not everyone we can have that kind of feeling with. Give your heart a rest, that's ok too smile
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/05/17 06:26 AM
Thank WII, you are right. And I am not in the least bit upset I haven't heard from him. Kind of relieved maybe.

I have had a recent experience of someone else from my past trying to win me over to prove something. That didn't turn out well either.

I need a fresh start and a huge change too.

I do fear I am never going to get that kind of feeling back. Maybe it will when the right person comes along.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/06/17 05:49 AM
Just so you all know,the plumber is definitely gone. I decided to text him. I said "I don't know what your deal is, but it is obvious that we aren't on the same wave length. I wish you all the best."He eventually replied " I understand, I think we are on different pages. All the best to you too"

It was clear he was just going to ghost me. It is also clear that he wanted me to chase him. I simply don't have that in me anymore. I'm also probably screwed, because I have no desire to do that with anyone anymore. It never works out well for me. I want to be pursued, desired, and sincerely have someone show interest in me. I gave all I had to someone and I was dropped on my butt when I had needs. I'm a little jaded.

Anyways, that's that. Here I go again on my own, travelling down the only road I've ever known.

That song has come on a lot lately. I think it's my anthem.
Posted By: job Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/06/17 07:10 AM
Ginger,
I think you did the right thing and it shows him that you are a classy lady because you stated exactly how you felt about the situation and you didn't "ghost" him like he would have possibly done to you.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/06/17 08:02 AM
Hey G, your post reminded me of a poem I wrote a few months ago...here it is.


Hate Me Softly

I like ladies who don’t like me
They’re easy to understand
No worries about mixed messages
Or when I’m gonna to get canned.
When she says “get lost, you little creep”
I know just where I stand
And that’s so damn refreshing
I want to hold her hand!
She never gives me enticing looks
Or flirts with me online
Just gives me that middle finger
So I don’t have to pine.
Rejection never felt so good
No worries about what to say
‘cuz it’s so openly obvious
Her answer is “no freakin’ way!”
So hate me softly with your song
‘cuz we will never be
No games, no crap ...no “let's be friends”
And that’s OK with me.

Deep stuff, eh lol.
Posted By: DonH Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/06/17 10:04 AM
I'm somewhat of a people watcher and following some of these things is like electronic people watching / just harder! I really wish I knew what was going on with this guy? Is he not sure? Is it just the chase? Does he not want to be dumped? Is he really a player? Does he not know what he wants? Or Is he just an idiot? Lol

I'm going to confess something not very flattering, there have been times, mostly in my younger years, where I really was not that interested but would still pursue a bit. Not even sure why. Often if she became interested I lost interest. Is that what happened here? I don't know. Just interesting to watch.

OTOH I also find it a delicate balance how much/hard to pursue. Too much can be a turn off. Not enough and they lose interest. I think I just had that again where perhaps I didn't pursue enough but not because I didn't want to, because I didn't want to come on too strong. I never want to be THAT GUY who the girl is telling her friends "he won't leave me alone" it can be such a hard balance.

In the end and again FWIW I think you totally did the right thing here. I would have suggested you not even habe met him again for a drink that BTW somehow turned into dinner? STILL you had a few dates, some nice kisses that you enjoyed and hell that's a plus to move on from. Keep pushing forward.

Just, please, if the ex priest calls asking you out again, for the love of God, just say no! smile.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/06/17 11:45 AM
But Don, it's not often that you get to meet a Priest who communicates through tongues!
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/07/17 09:03 PM
So, I've attracted another sex offender. This would make twice in one year.

I can't even make this crap up.

If there is a lord above and I am working under his plan, he wants me all alone.

Or I have the worst luck with men in the world.
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/08/17 05:00 AM
You need to move south. I think guys down here are a bit more old fashioned. Many Pineys don't come with teeth but they have good hearts. You can join our local shooting range or take up golf. We have many of those around here. Good places to meet people.

G I think the right guy will come along when you least expect it. I think that many males in ur age bracket are married with families so not many available? Is that a variable? Also the field ur in is dominated by females. So less options and less chances to meet males.

And no God doesn't want u alone. He wants you to have the best man out there. He knows ur journey. He is chosing carefully.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/08/17 08:56 AM
Hey G, I have a friend who went to meet a guy for coffee and discovered that he only had one leg, was unemployed and lived in his mother's basement. She was not impressed!
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/08/17 01:33 PM
Hey Rick, I really do need to move. This area is absolutely awful. Teeth are so overrated anyways.

This guy is an actual convicted sex offender. He was a high school coach who was married and sleeping with a 17 year old for a year. He is looked upon as a great guy in our gym, inspirational, transformational, the whole 9. And it has become evident to others in my gym that he has a crush on me. And before finding out the info I did, I thought I would love a date. Now I don't want to out him, but my gym friends sense his attraction to me and want me to go out with him. I can't tell them why. It wouldn't be fair to him. I think maybe he may have realized the errors of his ways and is really trying to transform him life, and I do believe people can change. But we all know I can't get involved in that.

It's highly discouraging. I spoke with my therapist today and she said I am best just chilling out and put dating off the table for a few months to collect my thoughts again. I agree. I can't take this anymore right now. There is more to this than I am discussing that has been bringing me down a bit.

But I'm ok. I just need to step back. I really think UR is right. (duh, of course). It's not meant to happen right now. One day, but certainly not right now.
Posted By: JujuB Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/09/17 07:44 AM
At least you have some great stories to tell. Seriously, you can write a blog on your dating adventures. Its all an experience right?

Smart girl though to do your homework first. I am so glad you found out the background info on gym guy before dating him. Was it a weird vibe that made you research?

I know how you feel though. I would like a partner. Some one to team up with and experience life with...The good and the bad. Its frustrating that partnership is not a given. Like we thought growing up. Its frustrating when we know what good people we are, and how much we have to offer someone. But then there is no one to offer it to. Its super hard when we know that there are a lot of people out there that are simply not capable of commitment and loyalty. (Or even the basics, like not going for teenage girls)

Now that we know better, it will be harder. Do we want someone quickly or of quality? I am starting to realize that if we want quality, things cant be rushed.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/09/17 08:38 AM
JuJu,

I really don't know what the heck to do. I found out, because it is a small world, and a friend from another part of the state texted me and asked how I knew him.Their kids went to school together. She warned me and just told me to google him since she really couldn't explain it. Now everyone in my gym knows he has the hots for me, and they are texting me. But I do not want to say anything. Nor do I want to come off like some sort of B for saying I'm not interested. What do I do? This gym became my safe place, a new place where I could make new friends and kind of get away from the other cr@p in my life. This really just stinks.

I've been looking for a partner for so long. It is harder because I simply cannot settle. But I was discussing with my therapist and I liken my feelings to my intfertility struggle. Friends were popping up pregnant all around me, easily, with just having sex. While I was happy for them, at the same time, it was a slap in the face and difficult for me to be around. Right now, there are people close to me in life who are leaving one R and entering into another so easily and they are so happy. It's not that I don't want the happiness for these people, but what comes so easily to others, is obviously coming very very very difficult to me.

But like what you said. My therapist said to me "you did eventually get your daughter, right?"

Yup, I do want quality and it can't be rushed.
Posted By: DonH Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/09/17 09:29 AM
So, okay, I too see people bounce in and out of new Rs but are they quality? And if so, why do they leave? See as I looked at it in my life, they ARE SETTELING for less than. They will often take the first person who comes along. They would take the plumber because they would rather have him than no one. Is this the case in your life with your friends? I'll bet it is. So while I've felt and at times still feel exactly like you do, the real truth is you could be going from guy to guy too, you just set the bar higher than they do. If you took anything or anyone you'd be with someone right now. That's not you (or me) and quality takes time and are farther and fewer between.

As for gym guy, why do you have to hide his secret? Why can't you just say something like "I make a practice of googling anyone I might date. I need to protect my daughter and myself and feel that's the best practice. Then just leave it at that for them to figure out. If they press you with "what do you mean? Say, just that, I check out anyone I might date and say no more.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/09/17 09:46 AM
I don't know that I can add any great words of wisdom to some of the advice others are giving you, here, Miss Ginger, but what I can tell you is that you are not alone. It is SO difficult to meet decent, single men and to have to go through all this dating stuff. I wasn't good at it when I was younger and I have not gotten any better with age, unfortunately. I, too, sometimes wonder if God means for me to be alone.

Hang in there, lady, and know that others feel your pain, so to speak. smile
Posted By: Underdog Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/09/17 03:53 PM
Don, what you said! Exactly!

Ginger, if I were the one writing your post and you got the pleasure of reading that, I know you well enough to know you'd say this to me:

1. You have a great friend.
2. With a minor age daughter, you can't be too careful.

That being said, I check out EVERYONE for my D19 for the same reason. I can promise you if I waited too long, one of my cop friends would do it for me.

Just maybe you're getting a "hold on tight" message because you are supposed to be focused on furthering your own self interests? That might be a move... or anything, really.

I found that in my late 30s, I was the one who was unsettled, not very in tune with what we all know now and looking for that magic bullet to make myself look like I was much happier than I was. If only I had learned by your age what you know now! My friends were exasperated with me. Hell, looking back, they were right to feel that way! I'm exasperated with me through that lens. Anyway, it wasn't exactly an enlightened decade for me.

So get in the habit of googling people. You'd be surprised at what you find. And even if you don't come up with anyone, ask people who know that person. I found out early on that someone who had his eyes on me and vice versa was a meth addict. I'm pretty good with knowing the signs, but he came from a wealthy family who paid big bucks to buy him new teeth and skin care regimen. I was seriously disappointed in that one. It's not a reflection of me OR you. It's merely a blessing in disguise that we have the ability to get information rather easily. I don't want a meth addict, and you don't want a pedophile.

So tell anyone who asks what Don said. It's a fabulous response.
Posted By: job Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/10/17 07:23 AM
Ginger,

I think your friend did you a great service by suggesting you google this guy. Sure, he may be a great man w/the hots for you...but he's now has a "record" that follows him wherever he goes and he most likely has to check in w/the law enforcement each and every time he moves. There are sites out there for people like us to use to see who are sex offenders in our areas. Go to one of those sites and read up on what "tier" level he is and what he was actually charged with, i.e., strong arm rape, molestation, etc. If it was something to do w/children, then by law in many states, he can't be around children.

If people ask why you aren't interested in this guy, you can always say that you are focusing on yourself and your daughter for now. Info such as what you've uncovered will spread like wildfire if it gets out.

Ginger, I totally agree w/Underdog...you can never be too careful when it comes to your daughter in yourself.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/10/17 08:26 AM
it's also best for women not to post photos of themselves with their children in online dating sites. I cringe when I see that.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/10/17 08:42 AM
I wrote this whole reply to everyone and......lost it. My work computer has been doing that lately. it's probably telling me to go back to work,lol.

I google everyone I date. In 2016, there was a guy who was interested in me and vice versa and he acted rather inappropriately with me. it have me a bad feeling, so I googled him. My gut was right, he has been charged with multiple counts of rape and is awaiting trial. I know what this guy did, it's right their in google. he was a married high school softball coach who had a relationship with a 17 year old student. Both guys you would have never thunk, especially the one at the gym. Everyone views him as this great guy and a huge inspiration and someone extremely datable. You never really truly know. Thank God I found I out.

Since dating ex NG, I have had 2 sex offenders and the plumber. Who was sexually offensive. Oh, and the priest. I am sickened and discouraged. And quite honestly, untrusting and hopeless.

In March it will be NINE years since the bomb. It hasn't been a few months or a year or two. There has been plenty of time. I've survived the horror, raised a child from infancy pretty much on my own, rebuilt my life, Found my interests and acted upon them, I GAL more than one might in my situation, and quite honestly, my idea of GAL these days is to lay on the couch with the one I love and watch some TV. I'm tired of busying myself. I have focused directly only daughter, and I would continue to do so even in a partnership. I go to bed every night on "my" side of the bed with heavy lonely heart. meanwhile I watch friends leave marriages then find someone that has them on cloud 9. I am very happy for those friends, but it leaves me saying "why not me?" Instead, I have been rejected by any guy I have ever cared about and they almost all left me to be with someone else.

So, I am discouraged in so many areas to say the least. I am so very tired. And in pain. Which is why I am taking a break from any men for a few months as my therapist thought might be good for me.

Thanks for listening.
Posted By: JujuB Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/10/17 09:27 AM
Wish I had something encouraging to write to you ginger about the world of dating. But I have such limited experience.

But I do think you are amazing, and I know that many guys out there would have to think so too.
Posted By: Cadet Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/10/17 09:44 AM
Originally Posted By: Ginger1
meanwhile I watch friends leave marriages then find someone that has them on cloud 9.

I might be calling BS on this.

You can't believe anything they say!

They just wear a good mask that hides their true PAIN.

I do think you will find the right guy one of these days.
More patience required.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/10/17 10:17 AM
Honestly G, I'm hearing your fatigue talking. First of all, what's wrong with being an ex-Priest? The plumber was a guy you didn't have high hopes for anyway but decided to take a chance (good for you!), the latest sex offender you googled and found he wasn't who you want to date (again, good for you!). exNG was a relationship where you both wanted to go in different directions...and yes, that hurts. I don't see you as cursed! Get back in the saddle when you're feeling a little more hopeful. You're an amazing lady who deserves an amazing guy...and you'll find him smile
Posted By: doodler Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/10/17 10:48 AM
Ginger,

I agree with whatisis, you've just had a bad run. Compared to me, you're doing very well. My only real prospect was Hot Mother Teresa, and she wasn't real. All of the women who message me look like toads wearing a bushy blonde wig and lipstick. I'm not giving up hope though; I know there's a great woman out there who'll love my toothless grin and acerbic personality (not to mention the cross-dressing).
Posted By: job Re: Bah-Humbug - 01/10/17 11:57 AM
New Thread:

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