Hi all
When I first came on this site back in summer of 2015, I really thought that one day I would be posting in the Piecing forums, not in the Surviving divorce forums. But truth be told, my life is really no different. Before, I was miserable in a marriage living with my parents. Now I'm miserable just living with my parents.
So now, Really my big goal will be to move away from my parents but first I have to survive the divorce.... Which is the process im going through. So I'm moving here with you guys, to be with some old friends, even though im legally not divorced yet.
Husband physically left in summer of 2015. April of 2016 I basically gave up hope for reconciliation and stopped all communication excluding kid logistics. There is no arguments with husband, just overly polite, canned, phony responses to each other. I basically started mirroring his way of communication. (which believe it or not is very traumatizing for me and difficult to explain why, but I do feel traumatized and angry by the stonewalling/disengagement/silence..but not really silence. But perhaps another post.). I am allowing the very expensive lawyer to negotiate for me. When husband is a bit friendly with me, I actually get nervous.. I figure it's because he wants something or perhaps has some legal advantage that is putting him in a good mood. (Still working on my negativity and anxiety)
Slowly entering into a relationship with someone new (completely debateable even for me if it's too early). And working on some great parenting strategies to help with my son. Work is great, and the plan will be to eventually increase work hours.
Anyway, I am so greatful for these forums and for the developing friendships I am forming with people going through the same things I am. I know how much insecurity is breeded into this comment, but I will say it anyway. It helps my sense of esteem knowing that there are absolutely fantastic, intelligent, thoughtful, amazing, and beautiful people out there who have been rejected by their spouses!
Hugs
Juju
It helps my sense of esteem knowing that there are absolutely fantastic, intelligent, thoughtful, amazing, and beautiful people out there who have been rejected by their spouses!
Juju,
Thanks for your kind post! Did you take your twins trick-or-treating last night?
Welcome to the neighborhood, JujuB! You already know many of us, and you'll get to know the rest soon. I just have a hunch that you are one of the absolutely fantastic, intelligent, thoughtful, amazing, and beautiful people rejected by their idiot spouses.
His loss. Happy you are here and surviving.
Hi JJB!
Sorry to see you here but you sound stronger and better.
Welcome
I left a pot roast for you on the stoop with a bottle of wine
V
We weren't rejected by our spouses, we were clearly truly faulty folks who
Bought the wrong bacon
Served Apple Juice
Cooked evil shaped pasta
Kissed badly (recent discovery)
Didn't keep our closest clean and tidy
Were too short
Weren't Russian
Wouldn't go skinny dipping with Doodler
Put on weight even if ill
Had an irritating cough
Put dirty dishes in the dishwasher
Had a sick cat that looked at them funny
Wore blue our least favourite colour
Cut our hair
Played golf or didn't play golf
Wouldn't hand over all our cash
Handed over all our cash and are now broke
Oh and married an entitled soD who accidentally went wayward or wants to go wayward.
V
Vanilla,
You forgot to mention chronic flatulence due to an acute hummus addiction. Unfortunately, that one is all too true. I haven't been able to find a chapter of Hummusoholics Anonymous so I'm still stinking-up my part of the world. It's so embarrassing.
And I "walked too heavy" lol
I once bought my spouse flowers and she said "you only bought flowers because you know I like them"...damn, busted again lol!
I once bought my spouse flowers and she said "you only bought flowers because you know I like them"...damn, busted again lol!
I was told during MC that the only reason I bought flowers was to impress the people she worked with. So that when she would talk bad about me they wouldn't believe her.
Therapist and I sat there Jaws dropped for a minute like "huh!!?" Lol
Welcome juju. We should have a ceremony for moving to Surviving. But it would be hard to find a better gift than having that crap behind us!
We should have a ceremony for moving to Surviving. But it would be hard to find a better gift than having that crap behind us!
Zues126,
I can think of a better gift. I mean, it's been a really long time.
I didn't react when he put his hand on the small of my back.
Wasn't there also someone whose former spouse complained they bought the wrong flavour crisps?
Once, I once made this pulled pork and he loved it. Then he found the bottle of hot sauce that was in the recipe and screamed at me because I know he hates hot sauce.
One of my favourites was "Why should I go to marriage counselling? It'll just show that I'm to blame and I already know that"...hard to beat that logic lol
"I'm not trying to hurt you; I'm just trying to live my life."
"This just isn't what I want."
"You just haven't thought about it hard enough yet, but if you try really hard you will see that you you really don't like me." Oh, yeah. And, "I decided to make myself happy despite how it made you feel."
Welcome juju. We should have a ceremony for moving to Surviving. But it would be hard to find a better gift than having that crap behind us
Hi JuJu! So sorry you ended up here instead of piecing, but I know that you are going to survive and thrive and live a wonderful happy fulfilled life. And you know what, I am truly grateful that my ex "rejected" me. I had no idea what it is like to be with someone who is kind, loving, who actually likes me and is interested in what I have to say. Took some getting used to! You'll be fine! We'll all be fine!
"you're too short"
"I never loved you, not even when we got married"
"you clean the house before taking a shower in the morning"
"you didn't push me enough"
"you remind me of an ape" accompanied with ape noises and arm pit scratching
"you ruined my life"
"I'm tired of faking it"
and my all time favorite "stop talking so fast, I get all confused and forget my lies"
I also liked "I'm supposed to be unhappy just because I took a vow?" Oh, and don't forget, "nobody planned for this to happen" an oldie but a goodie!
"You did nothing for me"
That was actually a tough one to hear. Cause he never really told me what he wanted. He always acted like he had to do everything himself.
Although, I'm pretty sure it was being a better housewife. He got so happy when I cleaned.
Jjb, I always thought that your H may just be kid's father's (KF) long-lost twin. They have to be genetically related somehow.
Mine was 'What have you ever done for me?'
Cooked and ate fish every day (he loves them; I don't). Gave up promotions at work. Stayed home to look after kid. Yada yada blah blah blah. Millions of other insignificant stuff.
And didn't expose them to their colleagues even though they have been spreading rumours about me.
Hmmmm.... So what was his question again?
and my all time favorite "stop talking so fast, I get all confused and forget my lies"
RL, you've got to be kidding me!!!
and my all time favorite "stop talking so fast, I get all confused and forget my lies"
RL, you've got to be kidding me!!!
Yeah!
Got this too........
As in "I had the story sorted until you spoke them the real truth."
But I prefer yours.
V
Loving this stroll down memory lane sharing all the crazy rationalizations from our crazy exes. Hearing this crap hurt so much at the time, but is hilarious now. I wish DB had a "like" button
V and JJB, it was so nice to actually meet you.
Wow. I read through these responses, and you just can't make this stuff up!
Rosalinda, you are a lovely woman and I was happy to meet you. For me the only good thing I can say that came out of this experience is meeting so many wonderful people who have shared in and truly understand my experiences.
We are lucky to live in an amazing world in which we have the tools and technology that has made it possible for us us to develop friendships and relationships with strangers from all over the world ( not to mention the strangers who are practically neighbors
)
So many wonderful possibilities are offered to us that I never imagined.
We weren't rejected by our spouses, we were clearly truly faulty folks who
Bought the wrong bacon
Served Apple Juice
Cooked evil shaped pasta
Kissed badly (recent discovery)
Didn't keep our closest clean and tidy
Were too short
Weren't Russian
Wouldn't go skinny dipping with Doodler
Put on weight even if ill
Had an irritating cough
Put dirty dishes in the dishwasher
Had a sick cat that looked at them funny
Wore blue our least favourite colour
Cut our hair
Played golf or didn't play golf
Wouldn't hand over all our cash
Handed over all our cash and are now broke
Oh and married an entitled soD who accidentally went wayward or wants to go wayward.
V
V, you know I'm guilty of more than one of these. But you should expand my faults to gaining weight while pregnant (did that three times, can you believe it!),and undercooking the broccoli. But I'm getting a beautiful new closet system installed in December, you should come see it! In fact, everyone is invited!
I would love to come see your closet, Sunny!
An JuJU- Girls night out, let's do it!
Definatly a night out ginger!
I am really scared when I read a lot of the newcomer stories. I am very afraid to become attached to someone because I feel like it is inevitable that they will cheat or villify me to justify leaving. I am afraid of entering into a dysfunctional relationship and not being able to recognize that it is or becomes dysfunctional.
I am definatly afraid to get close to the guy I have been dating because his FOO issues are major. He is very open about these issues and about his vulnerabilities , (which is night and day different from STBX) but it scares me.
in a very weird conversation, he said to me that he would forgive his wife of 30 years if she was to cheat on him. And of course I debated this. I took this to mean that he would be capable of cheating on someone he was with for a long time and that he doesn't share the same values on fidelity that I do.
I asked him if he would be capable of cheating on someone he was with for so long, and he said he would like to think that he would not, but couldn't answer definitively because he has no way of knowing the circumstances..or something like that. This answer, while honest made me detach too.
I read somewhere that we tend to date people we are comfortable with. And that the people we are comfortable with are often the people that share certain traits with our exes. This guy has a more indulgent and addictive personality, like my ex and that scares me. I don't smoke and I drink very rarely, so wouldn't it be smarter to date some one similar? Although my closest friends are pretty big drinkers, eaters, partiers. Does that make them more accepting of cheating?
I feel like I am actively looking for red flags with him and I could end this at the drop of a hat because of those red flags. (Of course DBing has trained me to stay cool, and none of these thoughts are ever revealed) I think new relationships are usually filled with good feelings and endorphin highs, but I am certainly holding back.
I even wonder if the reason he likes me so much is because I hold back...and if there is dysfunction in that?
My ex was a very black and white thinker. He wouldn't entertain or acknowledge or validate thoughts or ideas. He hated talking about politics, religion, ideas or "what ifs" with me. BThis new guy enjoys conversation and discussion. He has said that talking is an aphrodasiac to him. We have very long conversations that are often silly and imaginative and he shares things he probably shouldn't with a girl he's trying to date. He is funny and makes me laugh which is a plus.
But I guess I have to get to know him better to determine if there is real potential. He has been very respectful, and a gentleman through and through. I'm just not sure if he would be capable of long term faithfulness.
Hi Juju,
Apologies as I am not familiar with your thread, however it sounds like you are doing well. I understand your fear. I think it is totally normal albeit terrifying. I can relate 100%. I know you aren't supposed to hold back per se, although, I do think taking things slowly and being observant is wise.
I think we can't help but analyze things or wonder why this person likes us even though we logically know we are good people. Flawed of course..as is everyone. Enjoy the conversation and let the chips fall where they may. Difficult I'm sure.
I had to chime in to V's list. According to my ex (and both of these things were said through huge sobs), I was guilty of "being too logical and he didn't understand how I could function being so logical" and apparently I had a fatal flaw. He absolutely couldn't stand the way I eat tacos. Which happened maybe twice a year. Sigh. What are you going to do?
Glad to hear the new guy is respectful. Enjoy it:)
Loving this stroll down memory lane sharing all the crazy rationalizations from our crazy exes. Hearing this crap hurt so much at the time, but is hilarious now. I wish DB had a "like" button
V and JJB, it was so nice to actually meet you.
The same!
V
Just one quote to add to the list. In the early days after BD and before this site, I had this convo with XH.
Me: would you be willing to try marriage counselling?
XH: (snorted) Marriage counselling! That's not my idea of romance!!
xx
Just one quote to add to the list. In the early days after BD and before this site, I had this convo with XH.
Me: would you be willing to try marriage counselling?
XH: (snorted) Marriage counselling! That's not my idea of romance!!
xx
Hahahaha. As opposed to the romantic affair and divorce, guaranteed to sweep anyone off their feet
I love these forums, but I have not been good about writing in them lately.
Just been really, really exhausted. End of year crunch time at work, and of course I left some things for last minute so I'm trying to get caught up with that. Had some minor, but annoying illnesses and injuries (fractured ankle, diffuculty eating cause of cramping) that slowed me down and kept me from my major stress relief outlet...exercises and running. I'm struggling with my son who has lots of issues with sensory integration and most likely adhd. Parent teacher conference was not fun...in process of getting help and have been incorporating some very helpful behavior strategies from a great child social worker I am seeing. I have to get things out to the divorce lawyer and I just don't have the energy to sit and do it.
Still trying to cope with my anger at husband. It's not easy, when I feel like my life is not going smoothly. I am angry because
1. I am living in a chaotic home with my parents. My parents mean well, but are driving me crazy, I am 38 and really want calm and independence, and financially I don't see a way out. I have a decent job, but the region is just too expensive.
2. Ex did not come to parent teacher conference. I offered to split thanksgiving day so he could see son but he did not want to because his mother would not be around. He has son on weekend of New Years eve and is asking me to take him that weekend (I will have son home all week from break). And this makes me so mad. It makes me mad for our son. he sees him less then 4 days a month voluntarily, and his mom is the one doing most of he work. I am mad at his mom for enabling him, and I am mad at him. My son is not easy and I struggle and I feel like I'm doing it by myself.
I know the answer is to be greatful and appreciative for what I do have. It could be worse. At least With sole responsibility comes sole power to make decisions the way I want regarding son.
And the truth is, during our marriage my ex was never really a partner anyway. These 4 days a month are more of a break then I ever had. And his child support check is more then I ever had too. I was paying for most of sons expenses and all my expenses by myself. We never had a home, despite husband having a good job and there was never economic transparency.....and this is what I am really mad at. That our marriage was so bad and I was so frusturated and he was never a partner. He was Just someone who slept all day and worked. And now I look back and feel like all those years (except for my son) were just a big waste of my life.
Jujub, I hear and can see where you are coming from but I'm sure that during all the years you have spent with H, they weren't all that bad. It is hard to see the good things because we are so hurt. In time you will see it wasn't all that bad because if it was you would have left.
I know with Christmas upon us it is hard, although you are going to spend it with people you love. Unfortunately not everyone is as lucky as us.
Hey JuJu,
I know it must be frustrating to live in your parents home still and want space of your own. I know you are a successful professional but the truth is, unless you are rich, to it is almost impossible to live on one income in your region. I barely make it.
You should be mad that he is asking you take son on his time. How sad for him he cannot take care of his own son without his mother's help. Your ex is a child. He never grew up. He still needs to be coddled. I hope you said no to New Years eve. he needs to figure it out. You need your time to yourself to reenergize.
I would try to turn that anger into pity. He's not a man, he's a child who's enabled by his mother. Friggin sad.
Yes, we can still appreciate what we DO have, while still feeling the loss of what we don't have.
I also feel nothing is a waste of life. Like you said, you had your son, you built a career, you grew, he did not. You didn't waste your life. Shed as much of the crappiness of the past that you can. Move forward with the good stuff you got going on in the present and the future.
Thanks ginger and rouky
I am going to try turning anger into pity ginger. Maybe that will help me. I am still over consummed by anger and I don't know how to handle it cause it's not helpful to me to constantly be mad at my ex. During our marriage I was constantly mad....he was uninvolved and selfish but that anger did nothing to help. Things were unfair and imbalanced in my marriage and I was constantly frusturated and angry because I had a right to be, but it did nothing. My complaining was twisted to be seen as someone unappreciative. My ex was not ever present in our family. I wonder if that's his personality or was it that he just didn't want to be with me?
I am dating someone else now, that wants to spend more time with me but settles for every other weekend. That is really really nice and of course I am making comparisons.... I was showing him some snow toys I bought for my son for Christmas, and he was joking about how he wanted them cause he would have fun playing in the snow.
I remembered how the winter before husband left, he did not once play with my son in the snow, that season. Instead he slept for most of day while son and I would knock on windows from outside to try to wake him up. When he did do something with us, he would end it quickly or start so late. he could only invest a small amount of time before he wanted to leave and run an errand or work,
So It is so true that my life is no different then before. I realized this early on in my situation. Our marriage was me getting angry and fighting with husband because he wasn't invested and committed to being in a family. I see the difference between him and someone that is invested now. I look at how his dad was like thatwith his family and I think my ex wanted that or didn't know better. And I kept trying to fight it.
So I am up early cause I am frusturated with New Years eve situation and would love advice.
I had plans to spend New Years eve with friends and new guy. I only see new guy every other weekend. Ex has asked me to take son on New Years eve,
I am annoyed with request for these reasons.
1. Ex is being super nice and I hate it when he acts like that to get something. I recognize the pattern with me and how he would do that with his mom and it annoys me cause I feel manipulated and used,
2. For thanksgiving I asked ex if he wanted to share and take take son for a bit so he could see son on holiday (he didn't want to because his family was not around). For Christmas he is taking son for part of day so they can celebrate holiday.
When he asked me to take son on New Years eve, he worded it as "do you want to share the holiday. I will take him New Years day and you take him New Years eve". new years eve is not really a holiday you share with your 6 year old. It's a night where people go out to party and drink so say it like it is.... I am not a f'in fool, so why word it that way. It really annoyed me. He wants a favor. He only sees our son 4 days a month but would rather lose the day or change the day so he could go party.
Now I am going to take son. I worry that ex would get a babysitter and I prefer to know that son is safe at home on a night that involves a lot of accidents and drinking, But I am mad at the blatant manipulation.
Any ideas on how to word my response?
I think you should let him handle it. Tell him you have plans. As long as you fix it for him (keeping son 'safe'), you're also preventing him from being a real parent.
Has he ever put his son at risk? Would he not know how to pick a sitter? Do you truly feel your son would be unsafe? Would he be out in traffic or with drunk people?
Many fathers step back from parenting because they feel they are supervised and criticised by the mothers. It's a negative cycle.
I agree with painter but then also wonder if you are a "fixer" or a "saver"? Is that what you do - fix things or save the day? If this is exs day/night to be with son, it's up to him to deal with. While I am concerned with anyone being in a new R so soon (getting that based on your profile footnotes) you also owe it to this new person to be available for something like NYE. would you be cancelling plans with him? As for son being safe... Really? Would H take him out on the roads or out to the bars to ring in the new year?
Most of all, we teach people how to treat us. If you teach ex that he can come to you when it's convienant and you will do whatever he needs, well then don't be upset when he continues to do what you taught him he can do. Make sense? Teach him he needs to be an adult and handle things like this on his own. This is what D means - along with life.
So I would simply say, "sorry, I've already had plans for NYE for some time now so I won't be able to make changes, but thanks for the offer. I appreciate the opportunity, but will have to pass this time."
Jujub,
Like everyone else has said. I would say to H that you have made plans and that it would be difficult for you to cancel it. My ex tried it on me too, and like you I was worried but I reasoned myself by saying that even if ex is in Lalaland I don't think he'd put his own kids at risk. He didn't like it but I felt that has showed him that I will no longer be a fixer.
JuJU,
Let him get a babysitter. he needs to tell you who it is and give you the phone number and vice versa.
I know you feel like you are doing the same thing by not choosing to have time with S, like he did. But you know what? You have like everyday with son! he has minimal time. So don't you feel like you are on equal footing when you chose not to be with your S on new years which is not a kids holiday.
Now tell him you made plans and you are sticking to them. He's going to have to handle it. let him find a sitter. Your S will be fine. And he probably won't be able to find one or have ot pay out of the butt on that holiday and he'll have ot make the saacrifice.
Now, go enjoy yourself!
Thanks for the responses guys
Painter, I know the type of dynamic you are describing in which one parent (usually mom) controls all the parenting and critiques spouse for different parenting style. I am many things and have many flaws, but that's not me or my situation. I wanted a team dynamic and husbands involvement. I don't really comment or find fault in the way he is with my son. when my ex is with my son I trust that he will issue good parenting and judgement. The problem is more that he chooses not to be present.
Don. My husband physically left in Summer of 2015. Prior to that he was living in my parents basement for a year avoiding all of us. Its very true that it may be a bit early to start a relationship. I have all sorts of issues I'm coming to terms with. You make good points regarding meeting the needs of a new relationship. It is something I didn't think about. And it's brand new territory to me. New guy has expressed that he wants more time with me but is also quite accepting of my situation. Something I am honestly surprised about. I never really sought out a relationship or dating. It just sort of evolved via mutual friends. And I'm not sure. I appreciate how patient he is though. And he has never put me in a situation where I felt like I had to choose. I don't know what will happen as things get more serious. I suspect that he is very serious about me.
Rouky, (thanks for stopping by. I have to catch up with your thread) I dont think I'm really a fixer or saver. I think maybe ginger nailed it. I feel like by not taking son, I am a bad mother. I do have very bad anxiety, and i will start thinking out scenarios of something happening to my son that weekend and it being all my fault. It's the same reason I never question ex when he picks son up late or drops him off early. Maybe it's easily exploited. I know my ex took advantage of his mother for babysitting. Because she loved our son so much. My ex would get mad at my parents when they did not help with babysitting as well.
Im also fearful of him getting mad and not helping me if I needed to change days in the future. Its inevitable that at some point weekends will need to change and I worry that maybe he woukd make things difficult. But then again, I recently fractured my ankle and asked for help and he didn't help. (Although his mom helped 1 day)
Thanks for listening!
Summer of 2015 makes a bit more sense and not as concerning as if it was 5 or 6 months ago. It just says "WAH in summer" and I figured that meant this coast summer - nit a year prior.
Sounds like ex is good at manipulating, goating or even bullying these around him into doing what he wants - drop off early, pick up late, late mom handle it, complain when I laws don't bow to him. Every time this happens it reinforces to him that he CAN get away with it. He's good at it too. The only way that stops us when others stop allowing it. Otherwise, why would he change? Why grow up and be responsible if everyone else does it for him? Hope you'll not only consider that but consider changing the dynamic.
Don - I was vague and lied about some of the logistics on my description.
My first thought to what you wrote was to question whether I was fair in how I am representing ex to all of you guys and people IRL. Am I now villifying him? If he was to write about me, would I come across as manipulative, selfish, a bully? Am I angry and harping on everything he does ? Is my perspective off? Quite possibly.
But I think he is manipulative and he did goat and he comes across as a guy that was nagged so much by his wife and couldn't take it any more so left. That is how he painted it and I believed it. And still sometimes do. And then other times I am really mad at him, but in a super obsessed way.
He's different from a lot of the walkaways here. I never had proof of an affair. He DB'd me and words things in ways that make it seem like he is trying to avoid fights and keep me calm. When he wants a favor, he is suddenly nice and puts in little "lols" and texts more frequently asking how we are doing.
So either he is really good at it. Or maybe I'm just over reactive. But I wasn't imagining the things he said and did..and constantly go over it in my mind.
When we went to marriage counseling, my parents agreed to watch son so we could go. They liked to go out on weekends and asked that we make appts in morning so it didn't interfere with their plans. He woukd always insist on mid afternoon appts so he could sleep late. And he once said "let your parents watch him for once". And woukd get mad at me because I didn't want to ask my family often. (My parents do an enormous amount for my son)
Now there were a lot of scenarios like this, but they are not as easy to see as an affair is. And I am not sure if this was always there full blown and obvious like this. Or just before BD. So it still confuses me.
But yeah. Sometimes it's hard for me to really believe that his behavior is manipulative or vengeful or bullying. Because he acts so distant and detached and something I can't out my finger on still.
Sometimes it's hard for me to really believe that his behavior is manipulative or vengeful or bullying. Because he acts so distant and detached and something I can't out my finger on still.
He sounds depressed.
Overt depression not covert depression.
I looked those up...maybe before he left he was covertly depressed. Blamed the marriage for his depression?
We only interact through minimal texting so would have no idea.
Can you Google Al Turtle Passive Master.
It's a way of being controlling.
I think it applies.
V
Vanilla, I did Google.
Ex simply did not work as a team unit. He functioned based on what was best for him. When I tried to get him to work torwards family needs he made it out like I was a nag, controlling, or needy. He feels that he was the one who sacrificed everything. I don't feel that way at all. He was completely avoidant, and lived independently.
I look back and I am honestly repulsed by him. But I also feel traumatized and obsessed and that's a hard one. The way I felt during the entire marriage was frusturated by husband. So at one point I was frusturated and now I am repulsed.
Really, he was copying his own family dynamics though. He thinks he is right. I don't believe he regrets anything. His mother said to me once "he doesn't know better. That's how his father was" when I complained that he wasn't spending time with son. So at least I know it's not just me.
Regarding the slave/master analogy. I did have characteristics of the "slave". I was really disorganized regarding finances. I basically was overwhelmed
And just left it up to him. I think there were points in which I tried, and it just turned into fights. I don't know if he was embarassed at having to admit to being unable to save, or if he was intentionally keeping info from me. But really this was an area I was really negligent in and it's coming back to bite me.
The words and vocabulary, I use were dead on to turtles descriptions of slave words. The "I don't knows". And the passivity. But I don't know about husband. husband was simply not around. So I don't think he necessarily controlled me. More that he refused to be part of our marriage and family. And that's what confused me.
Had he controlled it would have meant he was looking to lead and participate in a family.... in an unhealthy way yes, but at least he woukd have wanted a part of the family in some way regardless.
My best friend said he is empty. I'm not sure.
Admittedly that passivity attributed to turtles slave, definatly stems from my own irresponsibility, anxiety (that often causes procrastination) and laziness.
Something I struggle with. But am tackling... More out of necessity then anything.
Ju
The not participating is control. It's deliberate to be independent.
It is assuming he does not need to involve himself in his M or with his child, it is deciding not to involve you in fins. Because as a separate you, there is no existence. Extension over whom any decision he makes is absolute.
That is my view.
V
Hi Jujub,
I hope you had a good Christmas. Gosh I have just caught up with your sitch and it's my situation to a T. I'm wondering if your H isn't my H's brother as they are so much alike in their behaviour ( minus affair for your H).
I perfectly understand your fears as I had the same but at one point your H needs to be accountable for being a father and he needs to learn how to be a dad. At the beginning I have let H have free reigns on when he could pick up/ dropped kids out of fear that I was a bad mother and I hav realised that it was only fear of what H and kids would think about me. I changed when one time I had made plans (and was really looking forward it) and H tried to change his time last minute. My heart raced when I said no and I thought I'd die but I didn't. I also noticed that H was trying it on like he did with my SD's mother as she would always dropped everything to accommodate H, but it was only working one way (his way!). So I knew that I couldn't be like her, H needed to take responsibility for his kids and deal with them like an adult when he has them. So far I can say he is doing well and that is good for my kids.
What I'm trying to say is that if you don't stand your ground, you are not respecting yourself and your right to do things you like and have fun. What could be the worst outcome? It's out of your control if H has your S that day. It's his problem.
Vanilla, I never thought of my husband as the vengeful, spiteful type that would consciously and deliberately withdraw affection, and engagement. I can understand someone being depressed, or under stress....which is what I was telling myself the year or 2 before BD.
But these were his exact words after a fight over me asking for child support early after he left.
"Nothing will change for you. It's not like you have had my affection".
I always think about these words. And it does show a conscious and deliberate knowledge of disengagement.
I really don't understand that or a person that would do that, yet not communicate with me. I know I shouldn't waste time trying to understand how's or whys, but seriously. That's pretty f'd up.
I really really really hate him for that.
Rouky, I agree. Although I'm not sure if husband was having affairs. Never proof, but ex was expert at keeping everything private and I was too overwhelmed with things to really investigate. He had trouble performing though, so that might be the only reason. I'm not sure though. Maybe he had trouble performing just with me?
I am glad you are being more firm with husband. I have that mom guilt and he exploits it. (he does that with his mom as well) I worry I am not a good mom if I refuse.
I ended up keeping my plans for New Years eve weekend, but in a passive way not in a direct way. Still a start.
Juju,
I have to say, all signs point to your H being a very very depressed individual. Like seriously clinically depressed.
My mother was. Well, she was bipolar, but not on the manic side as often as the majorly depressive.
Everything you describe your H to do, was what my mother did. Sleep most of the day. Very uninterested in being involved in my life from pretty much birth. Had no desire to be a part of the family. She brought me to the peak of absent days from school because she simply didn't feel like waking up and driving me 2 minutes. Any activity I was interested in she talked me out of because she didn't want to bring me. Her depression kept her distance, withdrawn, and passive. Unless she was high on coke or high from a trip to atlantic city (my mom traded her drug addiction for a gambling addiction after she got clean) she was completely passive and withdrawn.
I come to believe your ex's passivity is depression.
The good news is, my dad offered stability, interest and love in my life. That is why I didn't become a total screw up and I became somewhat successful (except in the area of romantic relationships). So your influence in your sons life will certainly make the difference for him. I am proof! I do hope maybe someone close to your H, like his mother will help him realize he needs help. She's enabling his depression right now and he is not feeling the need to get help. he needs it.
I am glad you kept your NYE plans. No mom guilt for you. You deserve a life.
maybe ginger. Thanks for responding.
He had to have been depressed. We had both moved in with my parents for a year. That was horrible and if we didn't we probably would not be divorced. Unhappy yes. But probably not divorced.
He worked so much though and was really good at his job. If he wasn't they would have gotten rid of him for coming in late all the time.
But I think being married made him depressed. Not being able to make it here made him depressed. And I think he was modeling his parents marriage and I was modeling mine. We were dysfunctional.
I wonder if he is happier now? No responsibility and he gets to work without someone complaining. He has no one to answer to. I am sure he is happier.
To be honest, I think I would be fine with all of this if I was able to afford my own place for me and son.
Just journaling...
Starting this new year in a slump. I want to feel light and free, but instead I feel heavy and depressed. I feel like I'm in a hopeless situation regarding living arrangements and finances. I don't really see an answer. I'm sick Over the lawyer fees. And I'm wondering if my ex was right..,that we should have went through mediation. I'm regretting not going with a less expensive lawyer.
I feel like I'm recovering from a really stressful past few months and it's hard to get back on the horse. I don't really have any clear set goals that I feel good about. I'm just getting through one day at a time.
This will be the year the divorce is settled though. My ex seems so damn pleasant. I don't trust him or his pleasantness. And I wonder if my current state proves that I am the negative, vindictive, depressed individual that he got away from.
Keeping time for myself on New Years eve felt good though. Asking for expenses husband owes me feels good too. I remember back on BD how much I was trying to appease him and how selfish he was being. I remember his resentment and anger too. And now the pleasantness he exhibits is confusing. Like he's so happy to be moving on with his life. Like he was never that person he was during and before BD.
As I've said before, I don't want him back. I'm physically and emotionally repulsed by him and the way he treated me before and when he left. I mirror him and keep things polite and professional. Perhaps I over dramatize interactions with him...to tell myself, yup this is that person that treated me the way he did.
I still feel traumatized by the way he was before and after he left and I have trouble letting it go.
Jujub,
I fully related with the negativity. I have read several articles indicating that it takes 21 days to change an habit! For the last 5 days I have been saying kind things to me and reading a lot of positive posts. It takes times and energy to change your mindset but believe me it is working. My view on life has changed and I can clearly see that I was very negative and that must have been really hard for H to come back to a house with so much negativity.
I started to say two positive sentences to start with then just added two more today.
1) I deserve to be loved by someone.
2) I deserve to be happy.
3) I love you. This one is really hard for me to believe but I'm prepared to stick with it.
And the last one which I find really hard: I forgive myself for falling in love with H when I ignored the big red signals.
What I'm trying to say is choose two positives things and repeat them several times everyday until it sinks in and you believe it.
You will get there Ju, and I'll be with you right by your side. We can do it together.
Hey juju,
Been following along with your sitch since you joined last year. The demeanor of our stbx's were similar at the time (around bd) and like you, I couldn't find clear cut evidence of ow..... Just straight up running and desire to have fun. I don't have much to add, except for the fact that I know exactly how you feel. Some days I do well, and then I'm shocked with the trauma that I still feel after 1.5 years of separation. My d wil be final this year too....gosh there is so much recovery and healing that still needs to be done and yet stbx's skip along seeming in complete acceptance of their decision. No turning back! It boggles the mind sometimes.
Good luck... I hope you start to feel better soon.
Thank you rouky. I feel so deeply engrained in negativity and depression. Stuck like. Not feeling very positive at all. I know it will pass. But for the first time, I've been actually considering meds. I haven't been exercising (no time, weather, and ankle fracture) and I think that really brought me down and I have to get back up again.
Hi pax! (I used to post under the name julie). I caught up a bit with you and i do remember some of your situation. Especially concerning the dog. Not fair at all. I'm sorry.
I relate to your struggles with lawyer paperwork and the feeling of ptsd. Even though it's been so long and even though affairs were not thrown in our faces. There is something really off putting.
ITs like we don't have an affirmative "they are wrong". But we know something is off and it is mind fu...ing. My ex comes across like cooperative, good old american boy now. I come across as scatter brained...difficulty getting attorney stuff done and probably angry ex wife.
I read up on covert narcissism, and different types of abuse (never wanted to use that word) to get a better grasp on the relationship and way that he left. It's hard to understand the callousness. I wasn't just a girlfriend you break up with cause we weren't right for each other. I was with my ex for 15 years and the mother of his child and we had a commitment.
I wish I just had a real explanation on how a person leaves the way he did, instead of a "your better off without him"
I am very stressed regarding whether I retained the right attorney.
The initial attorney I consulted with was super savy. But very expensive. (Wealthy Relatives of relatives used him with much success) He witnessed my ex refusing to pay child support. He saw the situation from the beginning when I was tying so hard to salvage the relationship and hoping for reconciliation. I was worried that he was promising me too much though. I worried that he was a lawyer you hired if you had a lot of money and assets (which we don't). He seemed to be prepared more for court. Very cocky and arrogant but also very polished. Maybe a bit underhanded, but definatly the person that would work to get you the best possible settlement.
Over a year later I ended up retaining a female lawyer who was slightly less expensive and closer to my home. When I first consulted her, she definatly made it out like ex was hiding money and she would find it. She marketed herself as someone that could avoid court and negotiate.
Once I retained her, she Approached it like it was a simple case and is indicating that i should be prepared for alimony based upon what my salary would be if I went to work full time. To be honest, I could have mediated a settlement like that. She might be good at figuring out where husbands money is though. I don't really know yet. She is very detail oriented though.
She sees my ex being cooperative with his child support settlements and I don't know if it's my imagination, but I am not sure that she sees me as the one wronged. Maybe because she is a female working full time, she feels that I should be too? (I am just speculating here but I felt more sympathy from the other attorney)
And yes, I know I am writing myself up as a victim. But I feel wronged. I want justice. And I really don't feel that ex was fair.
So I'm not sure. It is so expensive of a process. I am even wishing I just mediated first, and then retained lawyers post. Cause I would have saved money that way.
If my ex would have showed me a good faith effort, like paying me the 5 months of child support he owed before I took him to court, I would have worked things out civilly and through mediation.
I will never ever ever forget how he strung me along...playing with reconciliation and then literally screaming at me and villifying me when I asked him for child support. (Inrecently went back and reread my early posts)
I can't get over that. I really can't.
Just journaling. Anger is an issue for me. In past, Vanilla has had interesting posts on anger and types of anger. For me, anger is not good because it consumes me to the point of obsession.
So I have been hashing out my anger and am coming to some conclusions...
1. I am bitter.
2. When things don't go easily in my life I resort to anger and blame upon ex. This doesn't make me feel better. It doesn't accomplish anything. It just puts me in this "wo is me mode". Which is not healthy. It feels good for a moment. But doesn't help long term.
3. My life is never going to be easy. No ones life is easy. And I really have to start changing my perspective on things if I want to be happy. "Appreciate what I do have and stop looking for things to be upset over" . Being light and happy is a goal. Being heavy and consummed with anger feels really bad.
4. Friend said "instead of accepting the way things are, you keep expecting more or thinking about the way things SHOULD be and that causes anger and is not productive." Very true. I get bogged down with my perceptions of fairness and justice. And it's irrelevant. It can become petty as well. I am getting myself mad and upset over things that didn't even happen yet.
So knowing this and rationalizing this is one thing. But how do you live and breathe this on a daily basis? How do I remember this when I get overwhelmed? Or when I read about someone else's experience?
For one, I need to act in ways that are productive. and that make me feel like I am accomplishing...
Not sure what else though and how to implement every day?
I find that meditating is helpful. It helps me remember that feelings are fleeting and to accept them and let them pass over me. It also helps me discipline my mind so I bring my attention back to what I'm doing here and now instead of ruminating. Think of it like rehab ;-) - repeated exercise to restore your mind to a healthy condition.
I also wonder if you feel like your life is focused on what you want to do. Do you have positive, fulfilling things going on? Goals to accomplish? Basically something that is more important than the anger and bitterness?
You are an incredibly intelligent accountable person, and I really respect that. Looking to what you know cognitively and trying to make that happen is the toughest part.
I was much like you. Angry and focused on the injustice of it all. But there was absolutely nothing that was going to undo what was done, so I was faced with choices. Move on or stay stuck.
How to implement it? I personally go back to what makes me happy. What I enjoy doing. What makes my life worth it? My situation is what it is. But What made makes me feel good and is what I focus on and do. I look to improve the situation I am in rather than looking to obtain a situation that isn't in my grasp.
I enjoy exercise, I enjoy spending time with my friends, I enjoy cooking, I enjoy hanging out with my daughter. I like to shop (although I kind of have to halt this one), I like trying new things and visiting places with my friends. When I get angry or down, I shift my focus on to what I enjoy. And just do it.
Painter, a hypnotherapist I saw a bunch of times, pointed that out to me.... How readily I can commit to improving the physical, but how little I addressed the mental. (I haven't seen her since October and just scheduled an apt with her for next week) Meditation is a good suggestion and a must for me. No excuses.
And you are right on the money. I don't really have a goal that I feel positive about. Instead I feel like I am just trying to get through my day and get things off of my never ending list. I don't have anything I am really looking forward to. And that's a problem. Now I don't know if it's that I'm overwhelmed and depressed which is making me feel dispassionate and fruitless about everything, Or is it the lack of a goal that makes me feel depressed and fruitless.
I don't know ginger. I'm not really enjoying those types of things right now. That's a problem. I honestly can't think of anything I enjoy or have the attention span for.
I am in the beginning stages of the actual divorce procees though. I had my first semi panic attack this morning. Felt everything tighten up and literally had to sit down while taking a shower. The reason was the lawyer bills. I Can't stomach the price and I am mad at myself and doubting myself for going this route.
I was filled with fear and mistrust torwards husband. I felt pressured and rushed by husband and by the lawyers. I mistrusted the lawyers as well. I just feel like it's a nightmare I can't go back on. The lawyers are gonna cost more then we even had! Which is what my ex had said back in the day. But I just felt like he was hiding stuff from me. I am just sick, sick, sick by the price of this.
Hello, JujuB. How are you? Did you have a good weekend?
Hi rouky.
I'm at a low. Struggling. Looking over husbands financial net worth statement and was just totally sickened at how he had been planning this since 2014...during the time I had some pretty tough health issues. He was basically getting rid of money. I can't believe the things he claims.m
And during that time, I really feel like he was instigating or doing things that would provoke me to fight and complain. Those were tough and frusturating times.
He might or he might not have been having an affair with another woman, but he certainly was betraying me regarding finances. To be honest, I can't even imagine him with a woman because I can't see many being able to have a relationship with him, and vice versa. I'm not jealous that way anymore. I know what he's like. All he cares about is work. There was never a friendship or conversation or shared anything. And I don't feel this great loss that way.
I am becoming more and more obsessed with the unfairness, because for him that's what it has been about. Money and transparency.
JuJU,
I was obsessed with unfairness for a long time. And I still go back to it sometimes.
All I can say is somewhere along the time I let go of the obsession. I can't tell you when. But I think it's just something you drop eventually. Like that day you realize you don't have feelings for that person anymore. It just happens. And I pray it happens for you soon so you can have some peace.
Interesting post about unfairness as I discussed it with IC. IC told me that dwelling on the unfairness is like drinking poison as it only hurts me not ex. Like you I feel all this in unfair but IC that life is unfair so we have two choices: being miserable about the unfairness or realising that it's out of our control and carry on forward.
I agree with Ginger that it might take time but we will eventually get rid of that feeling too.
Hang in there xx
You guys are both right.
I have to stop dwelling. And just play with the cards I have in front of me. That is the healthier approach.
This is true of all aspects of life. Job loss, death, infertility, poverty, politics, war, being a victim of a crime......
I hope I can mentally drop this. I am going to try hypnotherapy again. And maybe I will try some guided meditation as well. Getting back into exercises will help too.
I think the mental is a beautiful tool but at the same time our worst enemy. We are similar with combating negativity, it has been part of us for so long that it is fighting when we want to change. In two months it will be my two years anniversary, and I can tell you that I fight with my negativity every day. It's a long and hard process but I can see the positivity slowly taking over and it's a good feeling.
We will have triggers Jujub but they will lessen and lessen in intensity. I know that fur a fact. You are doing great, look at where you are now and where you were at the same time last year. Look at all the changes you have made in a positive way. Celebrate them.
I just received my Disney Dumbo and his mom hallmark christmas ornament In the mail. (I wait until after Christmas to buy because of the sales prices). We used to watch the movie over and over when my son was younger. It's one of my favorites because of the mother-son bond. And because it embraces a child's difference and stigma as a gift.
Anyway, my son was just diagnosed yesterday as being on the autistic spectrum and with having adhd. He is high functioning and so so gifted in some areas. He is sweet, considerate, clever, and witty. But a lot of his behaviors have been extremely difficult. I am fearful for how he will fit in and relate to his peers as he gets older. I am faced with the challenge of teaching a child that relates to the world and people so differently. I don't know where to start.
I lashed out with a text to ex. This was the first time in a long time I told him how angry I was. I am mad because these past 6 years I had been struggling with my son.I knew something was wrong but didn't know what. I was on high alert all the time with my son, because of all the safety issues involved. Because my son needed attention 100% of the time.
I am mad because of how ex withdrew during that time. i am mad because of the way he acted..the refusing the child support, telling me to go back to work full time like everyone else and then telling me to figure it out when I pointed out how difficult it would be to find help and child care. Especially because son had issues.
I can guarantee that most other parents and child care providers unknowledgeable of the diagnosis would probably have misunderstood son and disciplined in a really harmful way. (I am reading that a lot of these kids get abused from parents that think they are being willful)
He did not understand how work was easier then staying home with my son. He only wanted me back at work because he was preparing for divorce and afraid of alimony.
I am mad at the time when I had a kidney stone and he wouldn't come home to help my parents with his son because he wanted to go to the gym. I remember my son was screaming and my parents were insisting on the crying out method. And I couldn't even get out of the bed. When he did come home, he got mad at my parents.
I am mad that he complained when he was leaving about how I never dressed up for him or wore heels like the other moms in the mall did. Meanwhile he slept till 2 and just taking a shower was difficult.
There is so much more. I just don't want to write it all out.
I am still doing it all on my own and he is shorting me on child support and extra curricular payments. And i don't have the bandwidth to keep on top of it.
Legally, He won't have to pay anything but child support. His financial net worth statement claims that he spends more per month on his car then he does on child support. He spends almost the same on his groceries and eating out in a month that he does on child support, and legally there is nothing more he is responsible for.
Like I have said before, the way he left was traumatizing.
Anyway, my son was just diagnosed yesterday as being on the autistic spectrum and with having adhd. He is high functioning and so so gifted in some areas. He is sweet, considerate, clever, and witty.
JujuB,
I work with a man that is high-functioning autistic. He's clearly different, particularly with regard to personal interaction. But, he's highly regarded in the workplace. He's very good at what he does and he's had a long and successful career. I had the honor of being one of a relatively small group that he selected to attend his retirement luncheon yesterday. He's had a 30 year career and he'll be leaving at the end of the month. We'll all miss him and his successor will have difficulty filling his shoes; he's a hard t act to follow.
Keep your chin up; it's very likely that your son will find his niche in the world and be even more successful than you might imagine.
Thank you so much doodler
There are tons of great people out there on the spectrum. Daryl Hanna, Dan Akroid, Tim Burton, Mozart, and many many others.
Everyone has obstacles to over come in life. They each have their own gifts. I have always liked the people that were a little off the beaten path any way. They are more interesting in my opinion. And I relate better to them.
I am happy to finally have an answer, and I'm not surprised. My son is high functioning so it didn't get diagnised right away. (I took him to a very experience developmental pediatrician when he was 2 who just believed he was at risk for Adhd and oppositional disorder)
But now that I know, I have to come up with a plan.
1. Battle for school services (you'd be surprised how hard this one is and the
battle I have already had with his school district...which is excellent.)
A. Collect evaluations from top professionals. That proove need for service
B. Find a parent advocate
2. Learn as much as I can about ADHD and autism
3. Try to come up with structured plans and implement sensory diet
4. Food Diet. This will be hard, cause it means I have to convince my parents to change their habits as well.
Hardest part will be incorporating structure into my life which has always been a laid back, fly by the seat of your pants type of life.
Ok. I know this doesn't have much to do with divorce surviving. These forums are my own little interactive journal though.
Jujub, you are an amazing women. Your son is extremely lucky to have you as his mum. Once he has found his niche he will excel because he has you as his guide.
I can only imagine imagine what the implications of this diagnostic implies but it looks like you have everything under control as you have started to plan a way forward.
I lashed out with a text to ex. This was the first time in a long time I told him how angry I was. I am mad because these past 6 years I had been struggling with my son.I knew something was wrong but didn't know what. I was on high alert all the time with my son, because of all the safety issues involved. Because my son needed attention 100% of the time.
I am mad because of how ex withdrew during that time. i am mad because of the way he acted..the refusing the child support, telling me to go back to work full time like everyone else and then telling me to figure it out when I pointed out how difficult it would be to find help and child care. Especially because son had issues.
I can guarantee that most other parents and child care providers unknowledgeable of the diagnosis would probably have misunderstood son and disciplined in a really harmful way. (I am reading that a lot of these kids get abused from parents that think they are being willful)
He did not understand how work was easier then staying home with my son. He only wanted me back at work because he was preparing for divorce and afraid of alimony.
I am mad at the time when I had a kidney stone and he wouldn't come home to help my parents with his son because he wanted to go to the gym. I remember my son was screaming and my parents were insisting on the crying out method. And I couldn't even get out of the bed. When he did come home, he got mad at my parents.
I am mad that he complained when he was leaving about how I never dressed up for him or wore heels like the other moms in the mall did. Meanwhile he slept till 2 and just taking a shower was difficult.
There is so much more. I just don't want to write it all out.
I am still doing it all on my own and he is shorting me on child support and extra curricular payments. And i don't have the bandwidth to keep on top of it.
Legally, He won't have to pay anything but child support. His financial net worth statement claims that he spends more per month on his car then he does on child support. He spends almost the same on his groceries and eating out in a month that he does on child support, and legally there is nothing more he is responsible for.
Like I have said before, the way he left was traumatizing.
Ugh, I was under a lot of stress with son's diagnosis and I lashed out on ex for things I was hurt about in 2015. Ex basically dismissed what I wrote, saying i was impossible to have an honest conversation with and he disagreed with every point I made. I think I had validity to my points, but there was no need to go there.
The truth is that stuff is in the past. Yet I brought it up out of self righteousness. Because I wanted someone to be mad at because I could not be mad at my sons diagnosis. I was using my ex as my punching bag. And I keep doing that and its not helping me any.
Its not making my life any better.
I feel uncomfortable and unsettled now...
I realize I am still attached.
I realize I am very hurt. I feel I was so easily discarded by him.
I realize he doesnt care and I do.
I'm the one looking for reactions, not him. He just wants to live life peacefully without drama- without me.
I really hate the concept of divorce. It is just so sad and so wrong. And it was so hurtful to have someone end their life with me. Im taking it as a "you were that difficult" instead of as a "we just couldnt get along and made each other miserable"
I just wish we could have gotten along.
Was it just our dynamics? Or is like that sharing a life with anyone?
I also realize that there is absolutely nothing that makes this better.... winning a fight, winning more money, having a guy that is head over heels for you.
It still doesnt feel right.
My best friend is going through a really hard time in his marriage. At the crux of the issue is that he feels he was put on this planet to play pool, and he hasn't achieved his goals with this game. It is beyond soul crushing to him. He only has a few years left before he's too old to compete at the highest levels. Maybe to some this seems trivial, but for him it's like a woman who always wanted children approaching an age when she couldn't have children anymore. This is his life's purpose, and something he feels like he needs to do.
When he has tried to write off playing pool and give it up it doesn't work. He gets depressed. He gets resentful. He can't be a good husband and father. He can bottle his pain for months at a time, then he just can't do it anymore. It kills him that his wife basically doesn't seem to care that he's dying inside, and that she's ok with it as long as he shuts up and provides for her and the family and bottles it up well enough. When he can't do that anymore he'll announce that he's going to play pool more, and she'll stand back and give him some room to play. But pool is a tough game, and when you're competing with 22 year olds that play 12 hours a day and devote their entire lives to the game, it's hard to win when you're working hard 5-6 days a week and negotiating with your wife to find half days to go practice once a week. It just doesn't work. So he'll work like hell to practice up and compete, but then he'll lose a big match or something will happen that makes him realize he just can't make it work, and he's back to hopeless, suicidally depressed.
He's thought about leaving the family and just playing pool, but he won't do that. He's thought about suicide, but he won't do that either. He feels trapped into just slaving away for his family and counting days until he dies.
The point of all of this is that he is angry with his wife. See, she works part time, and if she went full time she could earn enough that he could cut his hours way back and play more pool. He wants this more than anything in the world. They could downsize their house a bit, she could carry a bit more weight for a while, and he could make this work for him. But she is absolutely not going to do this. She keeps telling him, "You are going to work". And he can't take it. He feels all he needs in the world for him to be fulfilled is to just take some weight off his back for a while and she absolutely refuses. He's totally stuck and feels she's the problem.
I haven't told him exactly how I feel about it because he won't hear it, but my feelings are: That's life, bro. It [censored]. But there are two points here.
First of all, life [censored] for all of us. That's how it works. Yes, it is heartbreaking you don't get to achieve the one thing God put you on this planet to do. It is. It really is. But you know what? There are millions of people that die too young of starvation, lack of medical attention, or in automobile accidents. There are people sold into slaver or sex trafficking. There are people that are falsely imprisoned and spending their life in jail over mistakes. There are people that are hit by texting or drunk drivers that spend their lives in wheelchairs. All of those people, everyone in fact in some way or another, everyone has their hopes and dreams die. Everyone suffers. The fact is that we're all going to lose everything, suffer, and die. Yes, it [censored]. But it's life. And you can't change that. You can't solve that.
And secondly, and mainly, in fact the reason I wrote this entire post, is that it's not his wife's fault. I keep thinking, bro, it's not your wife's fault that this world costs money to survive in. It's not her fault that this is our world. Yes, she could work full time and not be able to stay home with the children a couple of days a week, but you know what? That's her pool. That's what she feels she needs to do. That's what life is about to her. And the same way he only has a few years left to play pool, the kids are only their ages once. She's talking about home schooling next year, etc. Now I get it may seem unfair that she gets to unilaterally decide she doesn't have to work full time while he has to, but you know what? She is reasonable about letting him travel, compete, and play a healthy amount of the time. Is it enough to compete with 22 year old world champions? Heck no! But that is not her fault. That is just the darn world we're living in. It's not her fault. The fact is she could work 7 days a week and he could get hit by a truck tomorrow and never lift a cue stick again, or he might still not be good enough because he's too late in life, or maybe there are others that just want it more, or whatever. And even if he wins a pro event he'll still lose those gift and then lose everything else and eventually his life as well. That's darn sure not her fault.
So the main point of all of this is that just because your spouse could potentially be a robot that did everything you wanted and needed them to and it would make things easier for you, doesn't mean that if they are their own person with their own conflicting priorities and needs and independence that they are awful people. Donald Trump could solve all of my financial problems by giving me 10 million dollars, he refuses to do that, what a jerk! No, it doesn't work that way. That would just be unreasonable expectations. I might as well buy a dog and get upset he won't play chess with me.
So when I read about the resentment you have towards your WAH you list all of these things he did or didn't do, and I'm just like, J, it's not WAH's fault that life is a m------f------. It just isn't. If you were single those years your life would've been hard as hell regardless. You just wouldn't have had a scapegoat.
I don't expect you to just let go of all of your anger immediately, or to suddenly be able to accept the circumstances of your life and have it trouble you no longer. At some point though your anger towards WAH may be a bit greater than is merited by his actions, he's just another suffering fool stumbling around this world doing his best in his own lost way. At least recognize this has more to do with your expectations and your disappointment with how our world works. This helped me anyway. Once I realized there was no one to get mad at I calmed down a bit.
This post isn't all about you either J. I've been watching my best friend for a while now and reflecting to how I felt resentment during and after my M. This is about all of us.
If nothing else know we're hear with you and I am hearing your pain J.
Zues, that was an excellent post! Life isn't fair. It just isn't. For anyone, actually. There are parts that are great, and there are parts that s*ck big time. ANd we want to find someone to blame for it. But blaming someone doesn't change a thing.
I can sit here and say it's all my ex's fault, 9 years later I am still single, renting a house, not owning, changed jobs umpteen jobs to make it work for my D9's schedule, had no help from anyone, and now I am in a job that pays well and is flexible but bores the crap out of me and I have no passion for like I did my other jobs. But I can't keep blaming him. It just it what it is and I do the best with it.
JuJu, I want you to think about something. Your ex slept until 2 everyday, didn't help you, wasn't pretty much absent from the family. You resented him for that. Imagine you were still with him, you got this diagnosis for your S, he was still uninterested and sleeping in until 2 every day and still didn't communicate. The only thing that would be different is finances. But you would still be unhappy, you would still be resentful of his choices.
The divorce only changed the finances. Let's say you get what you feel financially entitled to. Will you feel better? Will all the rest go away? Will the divorce not upset you anymore?
The truth is, the only way you would have been happy with him is if HE changed. If he woke up at a decent time, was a part of the family, helped with S, was a supportive loving H. But you can't make him into something he is not. And if you are going ot hinge your happiness on him becoming someone he isn't, you are in for a life of misery. ANd you would have been in for a life of misery with him or without him because he wasn't going to change with or without you.
So what do you want? A life if misery or happiness? Some people are very content with a life of misery if they have someone to blame. But I met you. That is not you. You are a vibrant beautiful, smart woman and mother who has great potential to enjoy this life and to enjoy a true partner ship and a happy life. You aren't a miserable woman. So don't be one!!!! It really is a choice! I'd hate to see a missed opportunity to enjoy life because of this guy who can't be what you need him to be. Whether you were married to him or not. because if you were still married to him, you would still have to make that choice every day not to be miserable. to be happy given a circumstance you weren't happy with.
You've got the power to change this.
I could not help but get upset when I read about your best friend Zues, because his story is mine pre BD.
While my ex did not play any sports, he wanted to be able to sleep whenever he wanted and work and watch football. He resented the sacrifices that come with having a family. He left and I am positive he is a happier man. He can do whatever he wants now. He sees his son 4 days a month and during that time, his mother wakes up early with him and bathes him and puts him to bed. Life is super easy.
Here is my opinion. Being married and having a child was something ex and I both agreed on. It is no big secret, that having children changes your life. That you make sacrifices when you bring a child into the world. But don't sign up for something you cant handle. And if you do sign up for it and find it difficult, toughen up because you committed. Imagine if our soldiers committed to the armed forces, only to decide "hey this is tough. let me walk away from it all in the midst of battle"
To walk away from parenthood means that someone else has to take up for your slack. In some cases, tax payer money. In my case, my retired parents. Having a child is a huge sacrifice. But i chose to have a child and I am going to stay committed to that child no matter how hard it is and despite the sacrifices I too made (career, health, hobbies, passions, entertainment). I am also going to do whats in the best interest for the child that I chose to bring into the world, even if it means my dreams are not met. If I was to pursue a lifelong hobby and have my spouse work full time, who would be there for the kids? A nanny? Grandma? Our choices and actions in life have consequences. We have to live with the consequences in a way that is morally and ethically right.
My ex is not a jerk because he is refusing to give me a million dollars to make my life easier. He is a jerk because he broke a commitment in order to choose an easier path for himself and inconvenience others for what was his choice in life.
His resentment torward's me, and his villification of me were deeply traumatizing. He takes no ownership of that. But I do think we should take ownership of how we treat other people in life.
Ginger
You are absolutely right. When my ex left, he actually told me "nothing will change for you" and it really was the truth. My life is no more difficult now then it ever was. Truth be told, I get more financially now then when I was with him. I am different then a lot of people on these boards because I was coming from nothing. I dont look back and have all these wonderful memories. I did not have to downsize or change my lifestyle habits.
Maybe I am mad more because things never were the way they should have been? Maybe because I tried so hard to always do the right thing. Married someone i believed was responsible,had a good career, seemed like a loyal stable person. I went to school, became a professional, worked hard, lived responsibly ...but i still ended up living the life of a teenager that got knocked up.
And yes. I know. theres so much worse that could happen. Death, sickness, job loss, injury. To any one at any time. Its ridiculous that i hold on to it.
Im trying though.
And yeah, I know. But thanks for reminding me because I do need it!
Life is not about fairness. Its about living in a way that is reflective of our beliefs and morals. Its about dealing with and working past whatever situations present themselves to us... No matter how unfair they seem.
It was unfair that my ex bailed. But thats what he did. And harping on the unfairness wont change things or make me feel better in any way,
But the world and society does in fact have an obligation to correct wrongs and make things fair. If it didn't, society would fall apart. Murderers, thieves, rapists, those who commit assault, are all subjugated to consequences. Personally, I think spouses that have children and walk away are probably at the worst end of the spectrum of low lives.
The consequences are necessary for the good of society.
There are no consequences for these walkaways that leave their families in financial difficulty. So when you get a personality that is inherently selfish what's to prevent them for exploiting others?
Maybe enough people have to get angry in order for their to be harsher consequences?
Now I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to leave your spouse. But when there are kids involved you should be responsible for ensuring that they have what they would have with 2 parents.
Jujub, I can read a lot of anger in your post and I fully understand your feeling. Unfortunately it's only you who are making yourself like this. Not your WH who has checked out. Like you I felt that life was unfair and it is but as Zeus and Ginger are saying this is what it is and we only have two options: either blame ex or working hard at making our life better.
We can't change what happened, but we can learn to appreciate what we hav now (something we never used to). I know it is so hard to fight negativity but if I can, so can you.
Hang in there
Ok, say he was ordered by the court to pay you a one lump sum as his punishment. Or if by law he was forced to come home. O Or he was imprisoned for 3 years?
Would this make anything better? Would you let go of the anger then?
What is it that the law should assure the child would have with two parents?
OK, if we had 2 incomes, we would probably own a house. How does the law assure I have a house? And my ex has a house because se lives there too? My parents were married until I was 17, but we only rented a small 2 bedroom apartment.
I know you are as angry as can be. I also think you have a right to be. But it is taking you over. To the point you need to have him punished SOMEHOW. But I don't know that would even make you feel better until you decide to feel feel better.
And FWIW, there will be consequences. They may not be the way you expect them to be, but he will have them. He has to live with hiself.
J, I understand your disappointment with our society which is supportive of abandoning marriages and family when personal happiness is inconvenienced. I also recall your fear that other men would abandon you in any future marriage when things get tough, and that you are upset that the world works this way because it interferes with you getting what you want and need in your life. I can see why you'd be angry at your H, both for the hurt he caused directly, and because he represents everything you feel is wrong with the world and embodies the universal attitudes that prevent your shot at achieving a fulfilling relationship in the future.
I was angry for the exact same reasons for some time. What helped me was understanding why I was really angry. And that is that I saw in XW the attitudes and outlooks that I feel are wrong with the world, those that threaten to destroy the very ideas of marriage and family. Because I have a different view than most others on this side. While others speak optimistically about their next marriage, now that I've watched the game played out so many times with my eyes wide open I'm unable to deny what I see. And that is that while at the micro level there are exceptions, at the macro level relationships just don't work the way I wished they did in this world. Now that the hardship and oppression that kept bad marriages together in the past has eased and people have the resources to follow the path of least resistance, humanity overall is simply too selfish to make marriage work. And this means there is a good chance I'll never have the committed deep love I longed for in this lifetime.
This is very hard. It is a big loss. It is grieving not only my marriage and my family and the future I thought I had, but it's grieving my belief that this will happen for me altogether. And I can't medicate and try to ease my pain by assuring myself I'll get this all someday, because I know maybe I won't. So more loss to grieve and less happy thoughts to battle those dark feelings.
But the good of this is that by letting go of hope for the future, I've been forced to grieve and accept these losses. I am not clinging to the hope of a relationship and then having every ensuing reminder of humanity's shortsightedness trigger me into PTSD, open old wounds, or pour fuel on a raging internal fire of wondering if a happy romantic relationship is in my future. Instead I've been forced to ask the question- knowing that things don't work the way I want them to, do I want to enjoy what life does have to offer, or destroy myself to spite God with my disapproval of how he allowed the world to work? And I've made the decision that I'd be ungrateful not to celebrate what I do have. In fact, for me to reject what has been given to me out of anger would be just as destructive and short sighted as those that walk out on families.
People just are how they are. I'll get what I get. And I can be ok with that.
And that doesn't mean for sure that I can't be surprised by what's in store for me in the future. Maybe someday I open up to a woman, and it does indeed turn out that I'm in the minority of second marriages that doesn't end in divorce, infidelity, abuse, or perpetual hostility and resentment. Great. I'll take it. But I'm not going to hinge my appreciation of my life today on getting a guarantee about that.
In fact, I feel like this is almost identical to detaching from your WAS in DBing 101. It would be great if your spouse turned back before it was too late and you lived happily ever after, but clinging to hope and remaining attached to that outcome doesn't help. It just keeps the wound from healing over, and that pain causes anger and resentment that make it difficult to be your best self that would make that person or any other want to be around you anyway.
So while my outlook may not appear to be a positive one, for me this has been a catalyst to release my anger. And I may not be as opposite as I seem. Because I'm not saying marriages can't ever work. What I'm really trying to say is that they often don't, and they might not for me, and I'd rather deal with that possibility and choose to be ok regardless than to condition my ability to appreciate what's in my life to an unlikely outcome I can't control.
Cliff notes- you're right, your WAH is selfish and won't remain in a marriage, so is most of humanity. Bingo. Well diagnosed. Now what do you think you should do with your time between now and when you die?
Sorry if this is discouraging to anyone. I'm in a truly peaceful place right now and wanted to share the road that I found through this mess. Wishing you all support for the struggles of today and hoping you all have a moment today that wasn't all terrible.
PS- I also think there is another advantage of accepting and being appreciative of a life without belief that a fulfilling relationship is in our future. Not only will we be better off should it not come, I think it makes it MORE likely we will be able to appreciate what we have should we actually form another relationship.
How many of us were miserable in our last marriages? All of us, right? Well? That's again because we had expectations of a relationship that was somehow better than the one we were in, and we just couldn't be happy with what we had, right? We were angry and depressed because how could we not be if our spouse didn't do this, or that?
Sometimes I think that accepting an unfulfilling marriage is a requirement for a good one. The same as I think accepting the possibility of no future marriage the best road for today. It all comes from the same place, which is the serenity to accept what we can't change.
J, thanks for listening. I have a lot of thoughts brewing in my head. It's been hard for me to sort through them all. These are just a few of them. I appreciate you letting me spill them out here and there.
actually, Zues, I think you are in the best place you have ever been in.
Ok, say he was ordered by the court to pay you a one lump sum as his punishment. Or if by law he was forced to come home. O Or he was imprisoned for 3 years?
Would this make anything better? Would you let go of the anger then?
What is it that the law should assure the child would have with two parents?
OK, if we had 2 incomes, we would probably own a house. How does the law assure I have a house? And my ex has a house because se lives there too? My parents were married until I was 17, but we only rented a small 2 bedroom apartment.
I know you are as angry as can be. I also think you have a right to be. But it is taking you over. To the point you need to have him punished SOMEHOW. But I don't know that would even make you feel better until you decide to feel feel better.
And FWIW, there will be consequences. They may not be the way you expect them to be, but he will have them. He has to live with hiself.
No your right. My ex is not doing anything illegal. He is doing the basics. And none of those punishments would make me feel better....except for a giant lump sum. My friend asked me what it would take for me to not be angry anymore. I told her, if I was living comfortably on my own then I would be happy and let things go. That is not a very spiritual response and might not even be true. Or perhaps it would only be true because I would appreciate it having not had that. Perhaps if I had always had that lifestyle, I would still be unhappy because I felt lacking. Like I would need to be in a homeless shelter to appreciate the situation I am in. But i think the issue is that I am really unhappy with my life right now and i do not see a realistic way out financially.
Now I know there are plenty of people that have it worse. Me and my son are in no danger of starving or being without healthcare or shelter. Logically, I know it really is a matter of appreciating what I do have and trying to just work with the cards I have been dealt.
I know that. But i still get upset.
J, I understand your disappointment with our society which is supportive of abandoning marriages and family when personal happiness is inconvenienced. I also recall your fear that other men would abandon you in any future marriage when things get tough, and that you are upset that the world works this way because it interferes with you getting what you want and need in your life. I can see why you'd be angry at your H, both for the hurt he caused directly, and because he represents everything you feel is wrong with the world and embodies the universal attitudes that prevent your shot at achieving a fulfilling relationship in the future.
I was angry for the exact same reasons for some time. What helped me was understanding why I was really angry. And that is that I saw in XW the attitudes and outlooks that I feel are wrong with the world, those that threaten to destroy the very ideas of marriage and family. Because I have a different view than most others on this side. While others speak optimistically about their next marriage, now that I've watched the game played out so many times with my eyes wide open I'm unable to deny what I see. And that is that while at the micro level there are exceptions, at the macro level relationships just don't work the way I wished they did in this world. Now that the hardship and oppression that kept bad marriages together in the past has eased and people have the resources to follow the path of least resistance, humanity overall is simply too selfish to make marriage work. And this means there is a good chance I'll never have the committed deep love I longed for in this lifetime.
This is very hard. It is a big loss. It is grieving not only my marriage and my family and the future I thought I had, but it's grieving my belief that this will happen for me altogether. And I can't medicate and try to ease my pain by assuring myself I'll get this all someday, because I know maybe I won't. So more loss to grieve and less happy thoughts to battle those dark feelings.
But the good of this is that by letting go of hope for the future, I've been forced to grieve and accept these losses. I am not clinging to the hope of a relationship and then having every ensuing reminder of humanity's shortsightedness trigger me into PTSD, open old wounds, or pour fuel on a raging internal fire of wondering if a happy romantic relationship is in my future. Instead I've been forced to ask the question- knowing that things don't work the way I want them to, do I want to enjoy what life does have to offer, or destroy myself to spite God with my disapproval of how he allowed the world to work? And I've made the decision that I'd be ungrateful not to celebrate what I do have. In fact, for me to reject what has been given to me out of anger would be just as destructive and short sighted as those that walk out on families.
People just are how they are. I'll get what I get. And I can be ok with that.
And that doesn't mean for sure that I can't be surprised by what's in store for me in the future. Maybe someday I open up to a woman, and it does indeed turn out that I'm in the minority of second marriages that doesn't end in divorce, infidelity, abuse, or perpetual hostility and resentment. Great. I'll take it. But I'm not going to hinge my appreciation of my life today on getting a guarantee about that.
In fact, I feel like this is almost identical to detaching from your WAS in DBing 101. It would be great if your spouse turned back before it was too late and you lived happily ever after, but clinging to hope and remaining attached to that outcome doesn't help. It just keeps the wound from healing over, and that pain causes anger and resentment that make it difficult to be your best self that would make that person or any other want to be around you anyway.
So while my outlook may not appear to be a positive one, for me this has been a catalyst to release my anger. And I may not be as opposite as I seem. Because I'm not saying marriages can't ever work. What I'm really trying to say is that they often don't, and they might not for me, and I'd rather deal with that possibility and choose to be ok regardless than to condition my ability to appreciate what's in my life to an unlikely outcome I can't control.
Cliff notes- you're right, your WAH is selfish and won't remain in a marriage, so is most of humanity. Bingo. Well diagnosed. Now what do you think you should do with your time between now and when you die?
Sorry if this is discouraging to anyone. I'm in a truly peaceful place right now and wanted to share the road that I found through this mess. Wishing you all support for the struggles of today and hoping you all have a moment today that wasn't all terrible.
I like what you wrote. And for almost 2 years I have read and followed your coming to terms with this insight...That you have to accept the loss of not just what you had, but on what you want. (I remember you talked about that with playing pool. That you come to terms with not making the shot before you actually shoot, right? and how you have better success that way)
When you word it as being "upset that the world works this way because it interferes with you getting what you want and need in your life" I had to laugh. Because although it points out my own feelings of entititlement ?? (I think thats the right word) There is truth to that. And yes. I am mad that what I feel is wrong is acceptable to many.
But its an important concept to grasp for any future relationship because it goes hand in hand with letting go of expectations. Of course I wont be able to count on that from a future problem, and like you am very fearful of being with someone that resents me.
Theres more to your post. I know. and will get to it. But want to answer this...
So what am I going to do with my time? I dont really have great goals yet except
1. Set up team, services, testing for my son. (he is super high functioning and i was actually told by his social worker that he could very easily be one of the kids to fall off the spectrum with the right help because he is so socially engaged and aware)
2. Get through the divorce
3. I have to make decisions here...Advance my career? seek out a relationship? I dont know. and that would help
Hi JujUb,
I think that your mind is playing tricks on you and you are going round in circle. I had an interesting training today regarding mental health issue and how to manage stress. It all come down to your thoughts. What was said is that you have situation that triggers your thoughts which in return triggers your physical and your emotional symptoms and all this has a consequence your behaviour. The talk was that if we can turn our negative thoughts into positive the outcome is a lot better.
If you could challenge your negative thoughts you have won half of the battle.I was crippled with negativity (still am when I have to be in touch with ex, so i'll work on it), but I'm getting better at it and I can tell you that now I see life on a brighter side. If I can do it, so do you.
Tell me one good thing that happened today. It is with small step that we will overcome this.
PS- I also think there is another advantage of accepting and being appreciative of a life without belief that a fulfilling relationship is in our future. Not only will we be better off should it not come, I think it makes it MORE likely we will be able to appreciate what we have should we actually form another relationship.
How many of us were miserable in our last marriages? All of us, right? Well? That's again because we had expectations of a relationship that was somehow better than the one we were in, and we just couldn't be happy with what we had, right? We were angry and depressed because how could we not be if our spouse didn't do this, or that?
Sometimes I think that accepting an unfulfilling marriage is a requirement for a good one. The same as I think accepting the possibility of no future marriage the best road for today. It all comes from the same place, which is the serenity to accept what we can't change.
J, thanks for listening. I have a lot of thoughts brewing in my head. It's been hard for me to sort through them all. These are just a few of them. I appreciate you letting me spill them out here and there.
I hear what you are saying Zues. And I am not trying to persuade you from being a bachelor.
I am really just thinking of my own situation. I hate to admit this out loud. But there are practical reasons for a relationship. Historically, and presently. I wish that was not the case but it is.
It is hard to thrive, retire, get through life (with kids anyway) without 2 people mutually working together as a team. Yes it can be done. But the benefits of having a mom and dad are obvious. Now, obviously this cannot be the only reason for a relationship with someone. Im not saying that. Thats not very healthy. But to survive in the current world a relationship/marriage is beneficial and thus a goal. No?
So funny how it's all the same thing. I'm seeing it everywhere now. Before I respond, let me tell you about the conversation I just had with my pool playing friend.
He has been having a problem with choking for a while. He plays great, but when he has an opportunity to win big he melts down. Not every time, he's a heck of a player. But let's just say more than a player his caliber usually does. And it's happened enough to be a real issue. And it has cost us some cash
Well, we've talked sports psychology and spiritual outlook and approach and balance and all kinds of happy crap for 10 years now. But it's not easy. Today he was playing a guy and it went down to the wire, he fumbled, and he is depressed.
Today I told him how when I was younger I played because I told myself that some day in the future I would be the best in the world, and I was convinced this would solve all of my problems. All I needed to do was conquer the world of pool, and it would be allllllll right. Playing was torture. Living was torture. But I medicated by stuffing my feelings, turning that pain into anger, and taking it out on myself and pushing, pushing, pushing to be better. I kept saying to myself that I'd show the world some day...
Well, in looking back I realize how that worked for me. I was able to find meaning in my pain because it was for a future payoff, and I was able to manage my pain by assuring myself it would be better someday.
Finally the time came where I achieved a bit of success. And guess what? Nothing changed. It didn't change how I felt one little bit. This is a disillusionment that many people experience. They say it's hard to stay at the top and talk about burnout. To me it's more a matter of the realization that winning doesn't stop the suffering in life, and once that coping mechanism is shattered it's a big lose of motivation.
In addition, when I was trying to get better I would be really upset when I played poorly. I only really enjoyed myself when I was setting personal records, having break through wins, etc.
Finally I asked myself: If I'm only going to be happy the top 2% of the time I play, is it worth going through the misery of the other 98%? Is the 2% really that orgasmic? Or is it worth it because someday I think I'll achieve some payoff worth all of this suffering?
I already knew there was no future payoff. And no, the 2% wasn't worth the other 98%. So I had a clear choice. Either quit playing, or enjoy the other 98% as well.
So here I am today. I enjoy myself almost all the time that I play, because I no longer condition my enjoyment on my performance. The controller/ego part of me wants to challenge that saying 'you won't try hard if you aren't fighting for your life', but I don't listen to that voice. I've learned that choking comes when you are playing for your personal happiness. If the stakes are heaven and hell, that's pressure that can cause anyone to melt down. And it is fatiguing to deal with. It wears you down. But, if as I say "When you play to have fun, you win as soon as you put your cue together", well, then there's no pressure. You're going to have fun either way, win or lose, champion or choker. I know it will all happen if I play, I will choke for sure, I will also win tournaments and set new records, it's all part of the road ahead, it will all happen if I keep playing. So just chillax, hit balls, have fun, and see what's in store for today.
And no, I'm not too unmotivated when I play. Believe me, once someone starts trying to beat me I still respond to the challenge and my inner fighter comes out. I may have fun either way, but I have fun fighting like a lion to beat their brains out so bad for the rest of their lives they have PTSD every time they see a pool table.
How does this relate? Well, one common thread is the frustration that comes if our happiness being conditional on something outside of our control. But more to the point, the idea of avoiding the acceptance of our pain today by promising ourselves something will be better in the future.
I told my friend I don't believe that. We humans really have a problem with acceptance. We keep wanting to believe that if only this, or that, then we'll be better. And none of it is true. Wherever we go, there we are. It's like some king that believes riches, fame, and land will solve all of his problems. He says "I don't want to die, I want to live forever". And his page says "no, sire, we all die". So the king says "Unacceptable. I want to live forever. I know, I'll conquer that country over there, and make a fortune on new trade routes. THAT will solve my problems!" Um, no bro, that won't solve anything. Yes, you'll have more money, more land. That might be convenient. But you're still going to die.
Now, this doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive to manifest our gifts in this world. As I said before, we know life hurts and we all die someday, but we get to decide what we do with our time here. This is where personal beliefs come in. I tend to belief it is a better choice to strive to do my best to use the gifts I've been given in a celebration of the life I have than to bitterly count down days until it's over. But I do the dance because I enjoy dancing, not because I believe the dance will take away my problems.
Sooooooooo..........back to your post. Date someone? Remarry? All fine options. My only thought would be don't do any of those things because you think it will make you feel better. You know, the old "If I had someone then it would be easier, I wouldn't be lonely, I would have someone to understand me, to just comfort me sometimes". Yeah, right. That's not how it works. We've all been married. We all felt misunderstood, lonely, trapped, unappreciated, abused, all of those things. So this picture in our head of what a relationship will bring isn't true.
That's where the expectations come in, the self medicating self deception of thinking it will get better. Ultimately you're expecting your partner to stop you from suffering, and resent them when they don't. This is not only a trigger for me because it's a mistake that's caused me so much pain, it's also a trigger because I believe this outlook is what is responsible for the failure of marriage today. People think someone else should make them happy, then think they have a defective partner so they cut bait. In the end they suffer twice, once because they haven't accepted the suffering we're all sentenced to, and again because of the consequences of destroying a family.
Because of this for me personally I'm trying really hard to be realistic and deal with my suffering head on. I will admit the dream of marriage sounds good, the kind that ends our loneliness and suffering. But the reality doesn't. A relationship where I will feel let down, misunderstood, diminished, villainized, and abandoned, no thanks. As for making it easier to get through life, the dream marriage where we partner up together and save for retirement and get the kids through school and share special moments sounds great. But having to navigate through years of court and social services and then pay for another household so my next ex can have a rendezvous place for her new lovers that she can bad mouth me to, no thanks.
This is where everything is relative. Some might think I'm jaded. But I don't feel raging angry about this, scowling at the rest of the world because 'if only they weren't how they were then I'd be happy because I'd have what I need'...no, I feel pretty detached about all of this. I just am seeing things very clearly. I see how it works. I see that if I partner up with someone this is a very high probability outcome, and this doesn't look attractive to me.
On the flip side J, we're all going to suffer either way. You can suffer alone, or you can suffer in a disappointing marriage that probably won't last. So from that stance it's personal preference. I'm not going to pretend that if I stay single for ever I won't suffer. It's just a pick your poison type of thing.
In the end, go out and live your life, advance your career, maneuver into a space of your own, relieve your finances, and maybe share some company with someone. All good stuff. Just don't expect it to change anything. And, since you know it won't, start enjoying your life right now.
I just thought of something I'll close with. What if God told you that the way you feel today, the joy you experience in your life today, the mood you were in today...it was going to be frozen, and that would be how you felt the rest of your life.
How would you decide to feel?
Well, this is pretty much how it works. We decide how we feel. We decide to be appreciative and joyful or disappointed and resentful. And, because nothing that happens in our life really changes anything, the habits we develop of how we choose to feel actually do become how we feel the rest of our life.
The nightmare of divorce was a loss that cut me so deeply I will never be the same person again. It broke me. But it broke me in a good way, and forced me to figure some of this out. $hit has never been tougher in my life right now, but I don't think I've ever been better. Lot of words, but only because lord how I wish I could share how I feel with all of you.
Just like I wish I could share with my best friend how it can feel to play pool out of joy, without fear of fighting for your eternal happiness, and letting your stroke out, and being unencumbered and winning against world champions and popping off big tournaments and being selected to play exhibition matches against hall of famers passing through town, because that's how I've been feeling, and that's what's been happening. Life beats the living tar out of me all day every day, and I bounce through it smiling, play with my kids, laugh during dinner, and make magic with my cuestick on my weekends without them.
Thanks for the reply J.
THIS SENTENCE ONLY EXISTS TO BREAK THE RECORD AND MAKE THIS MY LONGEST POST EVER. I TOLD YOU I WAS COMPETITIVE
10 CHARACTERS TO GO...AND I WIN!
My lovely JujuB,
No.
If you believe that life has to be suffered then life will keep showing up in a way that allows you to suffer. Your beliefs are as a live as you are, and your choices and perspective are shaped by them. Also you will make choices and live in fear that every action you take and every desicion you make will lead to more and more suffering. An thus you will experience a your life as hard, difficult challenging and a struggle.
Don't get me wrong a certain level of stress and discomfort is necessary in life, it moves us forward toward new achievements and to our best authetenic self. But my feeling about your words and actions JujuB, is you live a life essentially based on belief that your always one step away from a great disaster or catastoph and the other is that I have to do everything on my own'.
We have talked alot about your beliefs about what type of man would want to take you on with your special needs son. Now you are sharing your beliefs about only being able to financially thrive if you are in partnership.
So for now JujuB, if you believe it will be so, it will be so.
As Henry Ford said "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, your right"
I consider you a friend JujuB and hope there comes a time when you can let go of the fear of what if! and embrace the excitement of what if?.
Much Love
JellyBxxx
Sorry JujuB, I was writing that at work and I had already lost one post to you, so I have to start another and was hurrying. The first one was better!!I hope you can make some sense of this one. JellyBxxx
Jelly
Yes. I am my own worst enemy... I think it's having been (literally) raised with the belief that you should always "expect the worst and you will never be dissapointed". And yes this belief seems to only help me to serve self profiling prophesies.
That guy i was dating... He adored me. He would talk about helping my son and the future with me. And you know what I did? I had this whole conversation with him on the negatives of being with me. I told him how hard it would be starting a life with me and my son...how I might not be able to give him children, how difficult children were, how I never wanted to be left to raise a child alone again. etc. etc. I did not want to sell him something he would have resented later on.
Another version could have been, hey a guy gains the chance to love and earn the love of a really great kid. I still have a few years to have children, and I am a really really loyal person. That would have been honest too. I never said these words though. I am not a good advocate for myself. I expect them to see the bad just as I do.
His response was that those thoughts did come to his mind at times, and he loved how realistic I was. But I wonder if because I saw things so pessimistically, he had no choice but to as well. We are now breaking things off, he is moving cross country but I can't help but wonder why I sold myself so short. why did I try to convince him? Why do I continually devalue myself?
My best friend wants to set me up with someone and my response is "yeah but look at my situation. He's probably going to want to run. I should only consider guys that share similar situations to me" Her response was to "stop and let them decide"
I would never ever describe me as the type of person that has an indulgent or addictive personality. But I think The negative thinking is my addiction. just like eating, or drinking, or smoking is for others. And it really played a role in my marital demise and continues to play a role for me. No matter what, I am never satisfied with myself and with those close to me. And I don't know how to be.
I understand the message that You and ginger, and zues are saying. But for me not thinking negatively is like holding back on that cigarette. Only harder I imagine, because it's a mental perception that has been ingrained in me forever.
It's like I sit there and try to actually implement change and might be successful For one day, but then I fall right back into it again.
I think maybe I don't want to be hurt or dissapointed. I'm scared to hope that things will be good??? An underachiever? I don't know.
Hahah
Here's something I just read that's very funny...it said that negative thinkers like to take long hot showers and drink lots of hot tea.
That's me!!!
Something about substituting physical warmth for emotional warmth.
(Found that little fact in some Google negative thinking very interesting)
JujuB,
Please start a new thread. Thanks!
Hahah
Here's something I just read that's very funny...it said that negative thinkers like to take long hot showers and drink lots of hot tea.
That's me!!!
Something about substituting physical warmth for emotional warmth.
(Found that little fact in some Google negative thinking very interesting)
This me too JujuB, negative thinker, constant rumination, and showers and tea!! LOL.
I feel your angst and frustration with letting go of the negative thinking. It was my comfort for many years. I don't know what changed for me, but I think I realized that it was easy to focus on what makes me happy and doing that, rather that stop thinking negatively which seemed overwhelming.
When started thinking in every moment is this thought making me happier and more joyful or is it taking away from my sense of that. Thoughts are easier to let go when you stop them in their tracks.
I did a mental toughness course in February last year and it was completely focussed on catching your thoughts in the moment. The facilitator talked about the need to have the remote control to your own thoughts and at any time you can choose to change the channel, if you don't like what your seeing and feeling. He talked about the fact that often we also give our remote controls and let others determine our thoughts and feelings.
Look I am not expert on this, I still have my training wheels on this one. It's work in progress, some days are better than others. I did alot of reading- particularly around Positive Psychology, which is a practice of psychology that focus's not on an individuals deficits, instead building on their personal strengths and resiliences.
Optimisim can be learned JujuB, and that is comforting for the pessimists amoungst us.
New Thread:
The excitement of what if