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Maybell 39 I don't know what there is to report. My Guy and I had a big dust-up, partly because he did a couple of things I strongly objected to. In spite of a couple of conversations (which included ILY) the situation rose to a head and I almost ended it. He responded in a way that salvaged things. We had one more big conversation and it worked out.
In the course of the weekend he observed that I always seem ready to run off and that the commitment seems to be scaring me. On his side, he said "You've got three kids. Not one. Not two. THREE. It's a lot." And D13 showed her most difficult side this weekend, too, so he's got a lot to make him hesitate. She keeps trying to enlist him as an ally against me, and he doesn't bite, but he does what he can to defuse the situation. It can't be easy on a guy with no kids.
I'm trying to rebuild my expectations for what a relationship IS. I would like to spend a lot more time together if we didn't have to be engaged with each other constantly. It's exhausting to be ON all the time that we're together. But I want to be with him a lot more than I am, and it stresses me when we're apart. Probably scars from Mr. Fantastic. I should not feel anxious just because we're apart. But I don't know where the balance line is. I want to hear from him once in a while, just to know I'm on his mind. I don't know how much of that is reasonable to want and how much I should be able to just chill out. That said, we do have plans to get away next weekend. Given the way this past week went, I'm anxious to see them play out smoothly. I want things to be even keel.
We spent yesterday together with the kids and in spite of D13's charm, he did say he felt blessed to have us with him. I could see that was true -- he looked so relieved to have people to be responsible for. He's excellent with all three kids, and both D13 and S8 have started to hug him and then shied away at different times. I do not know how to navigate this.
Surfer, you've told me a bunch of times to be my sassy self. Believe me, when I'm relaxed, I am! He wouldn't stick around with a Debbie Downer all the time. He seems to have a pretty clear understanding of who I am and has embraced the idea that he can best care for me by helping me be calm. I worry this isn't totally healthy for him. I feel like I can best care for him by providing nurturing and giving him something to care for. We meet outside of our *needs* with the differences we both bring to the table wrt interests and knowledge.
Part of what we talked about this weekend was expanding our circle beyond ourselves and trying to create a joint social life.
I don't know what life has been like for the rest of you but for me this is only my second adult relationship (including my marriage) and life with Mr. Fantastic was not nearly so intentional. I enjoy time with My Guy and though there are things I'm not super thrilled about, the level of self-awareness and intentionality with him are so much greater than I'm accustomed to that I can't help but wonder if this is how adult relationships typically go or if I'm in a specially good one. I like to make him happy and I like the ways he makes me happy. Is this what real life is like?
Hmmmmmmmm so much here. I don't know if I can help you to the degree you did on my thread several weeks ago but perhaps I can ask some questions and make some points that help you to help yourself.
You seem to be so full of contidictions. Even this thread starts out by saying you don't know what there is to report. Then you go in to report huge things! That caught me right away.
You say in a variety of ways how much you like, now love, this guy yet you were ready to end it? Really? You sort of said the same a few weeks ago about having to leave if he failed to say ILY when you did. What's up with all of this? He has noticed you want to run and I get the same sense. He had an idea why, I'm less sure why - just sure it's the case. Are you testing him? I have to wonder. Are you testing to see what he will do and that he's committed?
I next observe you want to be with him more but not if you have to be together. Hmmmm that's very interesting and I'd have to say confusing. What's this having to be "on"? It almost sounds like being on means being someone else. Are you really saying you just want to be yourself and feel you can't be?
Those are just a few. Figuring out why is above my pay grade. It's also just so so hard to really know what's going on just from reading what you write. What would he say? It sounds like he's a good dude and you can be a handful. Just a gut guess.
And then last you say this is really only the second relationship you've had. Was Mr. wonderful one of your first BFs? If so, I really wonder if NG really was this amazing lucky find or perhaps was just next in line and you'll take that? That is hard to explain. I just have come to see there are some people who find love right away then others who rarely do. I just saw that again with someone just out of a LTR. She just got "lucky" and found this guy so soon. Thing is, this is the 4th time this has happened in 20 plus years. She's never really dated a buch of guys. Perhaps not the best example. My point is, you overlooked this with Mr. W. Then little dating and #2 is found. If there were few if any prior to Ex that certainly would not be typical and I wonder how it contributes.
I hope something in there flushes out some thoughts that help.
Hi Maybell, I'm sorry you had an up and down weekend with NG. He does sound committed and kudos to him for interacting well with your kids and making an effort with each of them.
Yes, I'm also picking up on the 'I may need to end this' theme. But you are keen on him and that would sound like 0-90 without going through lesser steps of trying to work things out. Maybe fear and you jump straight to that?
It is still earlyish days in your R and you say you'd like to see him more, but struggle to be 'on.' What do you think would help you feel more relaxed and yourself around him? It sounds as though if you truly relax and offer 'just you' that you feel it somehow wouldn't be enough? It's only enough if you're 'on' and exhausting yourself? If you haven't read Brene Brown, she is useful on this. I've certainly got a great deal out of her writing & talks.
I hope that you are also maintaining links with friends and a life outside of the R with him. One of the big things I have learned is that I do still want to be able to have a life of my own and manage a situation where we aren't together all the time and can both do stuff we enjoy (this is a hypothetical 'we' just now :-))
Take it steady, and try and see this as a journey. There is no need to rush to any kind of finishing line, you can put the top down and enjoy the sun on your face and the smell of the ocean.
Xx
I don't want to end things but I am fearful that I've fallen into this relationship so promptly. Also that I'm going to get seriously hurt again and I don't have it in me. The fear of being abandoned can sometimes be so overwhelming that I just want to jump ship before I'm hurt.
Don, your point about my inexperience is well taken and definitely one I've considered. I didn't count my college boyfriend of two years because there was no adultness in that relationship -- it was unhealthy and terrible. I did a tiny bit of dating in between the college guy and Mr. Fantastic, a couple of dates here and there and one six week thing that was just me flinging myself at someone out of desperation. This experience with My Guy is NOTHING like any of those experiences. Rather than watching him with rose colored glasses, I'm keeping an eye out for every red flag just to make sure I don't repeat my previous mistakes. That makes me a bit flighty and hyper-reactive.
I'm sad to say, yes, I'm pretty much of a handful. Don't mean to be.
WRT to being "on" -- The time we spend together, for the most part, has been about being totally absorbed in one another for like 36-48 hours at a time. It's lovely but not always totally relaxing. I work in a profession where I have to be constantly talking to people. Sometimes I just want to be quiet -- but I feel like I'm short changing him when I am. I would love for us to evolve into the sort of relationship where I don't find myself scrambling to do the laundry at 10:00 on Thursday night so I don't have it hanging over my head on Sunday night after spending a beautiful weekend together. Occasionally we'll spend time together helping one another with household chores, and one lovely weekend I spent at his house studying for a test while he was working on house projects. I want more of that... And so does he. But balancing the kids, work schedules, etc., and the fact that we don't live together means that when we spend time together it's about focusing on each other. I want to relax a little more with him and have more life together, not just time together. He jokes about moving into my garage -- so we could be near each other without having to give up our own lives.
Whether he's really so wonderful... In the course of our conversation, he said something about me that made me laugh and realize he really is just an ordinary guy. I said something to that effect and he said yes, he's just a normal guy, but he's been through a lot of therapy for different things (very difficult childhood and had a professional interest in psychology for a long time) and he can see my contradictions for what they are. It takes a lot of patience to put up with my anxieties. I don't hide them, so he can see them for what they are, which I think helps. He says I communicate really clearly which makes it easier.
Lately maintaining links with friends has been a little tricky because I'm stretched pretty thin, but it is happening on both sides.
Does that explain things better? I do love him. I can see being with him forever. Mr. Fantastic & I were planning marriage at this point and I do NOT see that with My Guy in the next few years... But I'd like it to happen someday. Which is totally terrifying.
I want to take time and fully respond but I wanted to say right away, taking everything at face value what you have said, I have to believe there is far less chance of him leaving you than the other way around. Nothing is fail safe. Rs are a risk. That said, from every thing you have written this guy is not planning on leaving you. That is your fear though and what we fear we create. Then you'll say, see I knew he was going to leave me and you'll have self fulfilled that fear. As Sotho said, try to just enjoy the journey. What I would do, and will if ever I even get to where you are, is ask the other person to just be honest and present with me. For me and I wonder if it's the same for you, the real fear is not as much it not working but getting blindsided by it again. Is that your real fear? Is that what you mean by abandonment?
I'll write more but really wanted to try to put your mind a little at ease. This guy doesn't seem to be looking for the exit. Don't test him or push him towards it. He seems happy with you. Relax and enjoy that.
More layer.
the real fear is not as much it not working but getting blindsided by it again. Is that your real fear? Is that what you mean by abandonment?
This guy doesn't seem to be looking for the exit. Don't test him or push him towards it. He seems happy with you. Relax and enjoy that.
Being left behind again is a real concern for all of us here, because we know what it feels like. But I am also keenly aware of flip side, staying in a dating relationship that's ultimately not what I want. I think it's easy for us to lose sight of what dating is, deciding if this person is right for us. There's no dishonor in deciding to end it, this isn't your marriage, its dating and that's what it's for.
MB, this was not directed to you, particularly, it was just a thought that's been on my mind lately, that we are keen to fight for things we shouldn't. I am, perhaps, preaching to the choir.
I like to make him happy and I like the ways he makes me happy. Is this what real life is like?
I can answer this two ways:
1) Duh? Yes.
2) why does it matter? Is this what real life is like is a question about everyone else to some degree. You have said yourself what you like. Is that not good enough, what you like? Keep working on what you like, want and need. Simple. So again, the answer is yes.
Win, win.
Stop overthinking. Just be sassy you! I do keep telling you......:) because that's the one he loved and can still fall for.....don't overthink, just be fun, caring, sassy you!
Got it?
Surfer.
When I say loved, I mean still loves, he just can't see it yet.
BTW Mr Fantastic, forget him, that's a product of too few sexual partners. I think you can have too few - not in a way that promiscuity is good. BUt you are lucky, two shots and you got the bullseye. Okay times are not great but this could have happened with man no 20!
Not being so lucky, I had to be 'a little' more promiscuous (ahem - okay I did a 4 year degree and then lived in a young professionals house for 4 years!). Zero of those relationships come anywhere close to my W (not WW). Sex is mechanical even for a man without true love. And love is not love, without love.
MR Fantasic farts, picks his toenails in bed, eats like a slob after too many beers etc. Perhaps he smells of BO at times.
Trust me, no man, or woman is Mr or Miss Fantastic. It's the nature of one of your first loves, they are hard to forget. But they are definitely not fantastic, if he was, where is he? I can't hear the sounds of hooves charging over the plains, his white charger etc. Nah. It's just that romantic ideal we all sadly lust after I am afraid - IMHO. We all do it. My first love too....but trust me, nothing compares. I had to test out my theory of course (prior to being married I hasten to add!). So I speak with a relative abundance of knowledge.
Surfer.
Mr. Fantastic is the sarcastic name I use for the ex. Because he thinks he is.
My Guy is the fella I'm dating right now.
That's enough for tonight.
I get where your at mayb, I'm touchy and the xh well he sticks his nose in from on far.
I'm not saying how but he's trying. Trust me.
Classic narc style behaivour and he expects the gg poker machine will pay off given enough time.
I too swing back and forth, bf talked about he had been around nearly 2 years and I freaked mentally. I had to say it in the moment and in some ways he gets it.
Sometime I think it's just relax and see where things go and hope for the best, mr fantastic he showed his true colour in the end. Most people do even if it takes a while.
He might decide over time the family things I
Not for him and it may not be the huge movie show stopper ending. It might be nice easy and mutual.
I feel like I should check in. Just because.
My Guy and I had it out last week. He had done something that was just outright ridiculous and I spelled out for him in very clear terms the consequences of adhering to that choice. Then I spent two days crying and he did what I asked of him. Then we had the big argument.
It was not a fight like any I've ever had. Every other fight I've ever had both sides get entrenched in their position, walk off to cool down, and then either one caves or the two parties agree to disagree.
In this one, he opened with a completely indisputable complaint. He stated it angrily but clearly and he was 100% right and I said so immediately. But then I had my say... And so it went. Back and forth until we had cleared the air and all was well.
There are some things on which we will always agree to disagree. We are not the same person -- not by a long shot. We did come to agreement about how to handle those disagreements, though. The biggest trick for me will be to have confidence that he's going to abide by the ground rules we agreed to. The second biggest trick will be for me to monitor myself and make sure I adhere to them on my side.
I also thought, all things considered, that I had sacrificed too much of my time to him. I am working to be more detached so that we each have our own life as well as the part of our life we're trying to create together. So I accepted a couple of invitations I had been putting off and I let him know that was my plan. I think it had a good effect, at least for the last two days. We've been in better quality contact this week than we were before. So loosening my death grip is actually resulting in me getting more of the relationship I wanted. I fear losing him less. I hope that lasts longer than a couple of weeks.
D13 wrote an essay for school about our divorce and although she expresses a lot of sadness and anger, she also says things are better now than they used to be, that she's proud of me and her brothers for pulling ourselves together (I hope she includes herself in that, but she seems to be doing better), and how much she likes My Guy. That made me happy.
D13 also found a box of framed photos and was showing them to me and My Guy one evening when she found a collage from my wedding and honeymoon. She was kind of embarrassed and said "Oh, I guess you don't want this anymore" and handed it over to put in the stack. My Guy looked at it very carefully -- just as I did when I saw a picture of him at his wedding. He looked so happy in that picture, and I loved seeing it. It made me happy to see him looking so happy (even though he was marrying somebody else!!!) I wonder if he saw the same thing in my pictures. Because I was so happy on that day.
This evening S10 was having a really hard time clearing up his room. I told S10 that he could have the collage of me and his dad if he cleared up enough to make a space for it. His room looks a hundred times better and he was very relieved to get it. I feel guilty for not having offered it to him sooner. I don't know why I don't think of these things before a crisis hits.
This thing called life is so interesting. We mess up and try again. Or we don't try again and we stay miserable. This divorce is something I never, ever wanted and wasn't sure I would survive, but every single thing about my life is better because of it (except the amount of sleep and exercise I get!!). I am so fortunate.
I think I've said before that my kids are close with Mr. Fantastic's girlfriend's three younger kids. D13 is in several classes at school with The Fantastic Girlfriend's middle child. So Mr. Fantastic is out of town this week, missed his weekly one-on-one with whoever's turn it was, and will be missing an important kid event this weekend (my weekend with them but one neither of us ever misses regardless who the kids are staying with). But last night when D13 was snapchatting with FGF's son, she realized he was at her dad's house. Do I bring this up to her dad? She was startled and kind of hurt and definitely didn't understand what he was doing there. But she is OPPOSED to making waves. I didn't know how to handle it in the moment and I wish Mr. Fantastic would just clarify the situation for everybody so these moments didn't happen. He & the FGF have been together about a year now.
What to do?
Checking in on my favorite couple of people here and like it or nit, you're on that list! I'm almost afraid to read what happened with NG this weekend. First off, am I reading correctly in that you've had struggles the last three weekends? Is that the case or are you simply referring back to the previous "dust up" as you put it? It would seem that ever since the ILY there have been struggles. Correct? Or not? First you were going to have to end things if you said it and he didn't. Then something else happened the weekend after and you thought about ending it again. Then last weekend NG did something else that was a deal breaker and you were ready to end it yet again but he did whatever was needed to smooth things over - at least until the next time.
So here we are at another weekend and I can't help but wonder, will you go four for four?
first if I've misunderstood, then that's great and just tell me. If not, and I've followed along correctly, good Lord Maybell what in the heck is going on? Why are you so afraid that you have one foot out the door at all times? Why are you testing him like this? And that's really what it seems like - testing how much he will take, due to this total deep down fear that you are scared you are going to get hurt and can't take that feeling so you want to be the one who ends it if anyone does. Is that it?
You really have said nothing that I can see that puts up red flags about this guy. So why the fear then? Or is there more you are not telling us? Even these spats, you don't provide details. That is must certainly your choice and you have to decide if you share these private things or not. I just wonder if you shared the details it would not show much bad on his part but may reveal you to not be deciding things rationally? Again, just a thought.
I so hope you had a nicer, calmer weekend but want to hear either way. Take some deep breaths. Relax a bit. No rush here. Just take it all day by day and you really will be able to handle what comes. Don't force anything. Just let it happen. If I've learned anything, it's really hard to find someone, so don't screw up a good thing out of fear. You don't have to get him (end it) before he gets you.
I'm really hoping for the best for you. I'm even more hoping you'll just allow the best to happen.
Hey, Don!
No fighting this weekend -- it was LOVELY. My Guy is LOVELY. He had kind of bugged out on some things he said he was going to do four times in two weeks, which is what all the arguing was about.
The fight shifted something on both sides, I think. I let go a bit and he stepped up a bit and between us I think it's become something more grounded than it was before.
The argument last weekend was enormously helpful. He said what he had to say about me, and he was right. I said what I had to say about him and I was right too. We opened up to one another in some really personal ways after we sorted that all out and then it was like we relaxed into each other. Things are different now.
Saying ILY did open some cans of worms for sure on his side which made me twitchy. My S8 has also been asking My Guy a few questions that made My Guy worry he was making a commitment to the kids that he didn't know if he'd be able to honor, which brought up some FOO issues for him. Well, he seems to have gotten his head around those, because how this weekend went, he made it pretty clear that he's OK with committing.
We had so much fun. Just family type fun, but still... He's the best thing to ever happen to me.
On my side... You weren't around for my original sad tale of BD, Don, but basically I executed a cross-country move for my ex, and while we were separated (before I moved East) he initiated the affair that ultimately was the tipping point in ending our marriage. I found that out just a few months after I arrived on the east coast, when I had no friends to speak of or family within 600 miles. I found it out when his AP's baby daddy sent me screen shots of their text conversations, which were very, very explicit. While I was going through all that, before I told anyone what was going on (because Mr. Fantastic promised we'd go to counseling and make everything all right), my parents announced they were moving out of driving distance of me, and when I said I wished they wouldn't my mother said "Why should you care?" When I finally told them what was going on they berated me for being too emotional for Mr. Fantastic's comfort. Then Mr. Fantastic announced "this isn't what I want," but then... He didn't leave. I finally had to throw him out -- be the strong one to take a necessary and inevitable action that I never wanted. I feel now like he didn't want to walk away from the unpaid housekeeper who made his life so cushy. All this within one year.
So, yeah, I've got some abandonment issues. Which played out in ugly ways for My Guy. He is much more skilled at relationship issues than I am. Fortunately for me.
Next weekend I don't have the kids but I do have a couple of non-couple activities planned that will take me away from him some of the time. I think it was necessary to do that -- I had given up way too much of my life outside of kids and work for him and it kept me from having good perspective. This should keep the drama down and help us have more evenness in the time we spend together.
How is that for an update?
Need some parenting advice -- Mr. Fantastic is not making sure the homework gets done anymore. This isn't so much an issue for D13 and S10 who are doing all right at the moment, but S8's teacher has sent 4 emails in the last two weeks talking about dropped balls. A little of this has been my fault and we've corrected, but the most recent one was because S8 stayed with him and they went to the fair. I checked in with the teacher to see if Mr. F had replied and she said he hadn't responded to any of the four messages she'd sent.
My little S8 is a smart cookie and the family expectation is straight A's or ask for help. I'm OK with less than an A if effort has been made. I'm not OK with lying about homework assignments, dodging, and not doing his best. So I'm working on parenting that part out.
Mr. Fantastic has checked out of the parenting thing except for the occasional rant to me (three recent ones about one of S10's activities), or half-hearted suggestion. He is starting to show that if it isn't his weekend with the kids, he doesn't really care what happens.
I acknowledge this, and except for the pain it causes the kids, I'm OK with it. His values and mine are so different that I have no desire to try to accommodate his -- he believes things like, it's OK to accept underage drinking as long as the kids are in someone's home and not driving. This is NOT acceptable to me. Our values don't match and I don't want them to match and I don't want to parent to his values which I do not think promote quality adult behavior.
That said, I do need to keep S8 on a good road with regards to his schoolwork, whether he's with me or his dad. Any thoughts on how to achieve this without involving Mr. Fantastic?
I have some suggestions that worked for me, hopefully they will help.
I am lucky because my ex just does what I tell him regarding that stuff. He's not too into the "real" parenting, so if I tell him to make sure something is done, he will, as look as he has instructions and direction.
I decided to make my D9 responsible for herself. Maybe a big task for a 9 year old. If she doesn't do the work she needs to at her dad's, it's never her dad I make accountable, I make her accountable. She has a planner, she knows what needs to get done, and if she doesn't do it, I find out. And she gets consequences. Even if I am the enforcer, but the lack of responsibility happens at her dad's.
I would maybe sit down with S8 and explain to him his education is very important and you count on him to be responsible to get his work done and handed in no matter which house he is at. If he knows he is going to a fair, it is his responsibility to make sure his homework is done before he goes.
I know you are trying to handle this without getting Mr. F involved, but perhaps when the teacher reaches out, he should be involved. In a non-threatening open-ended manner, of course. Focusing on your S. Let him know it's great they do things together and enjoy their time together but ask if it's possible to find a time for the work to get done so his teacher is no longer concerned.
My D9 is a tough cookie but also very bright. And a little scatter brained. I expect A's and B's of her because that is her potential. I always get the comment from the teacher "D9 could easily be a straight A student if she stays on task and stops socializing so much" I find knowing that it is HER responsibility and there is no one else to blame but her when she doesn't get anything done motivates her. Especially when there is reward for doing good, or consequence for not.
My ex often rants too about activities and schedules. Which is funny, because I handle it pretty much all. My D9 knows it to.
One last suggestion: Does your D8 have a way to call you or facetime you? Because if my D needs to do something on her dad time, I do call her directly and remind her. I don't know if your ex will see that as an imposition on his time, but if he checked out of the parenting, he may not care.
I knows it's rough being the sole one handling the actual responsibilities. ANd bless you for doing it with 3 kids. One is tough enough for me.
Thank you Ginger, I had that exact conversation with my little guy. It will take some monitoring but he's got to be in charge of himself. Dimwit dad or no, it would be time for him to be responsible either way.
D13 had a big achievement recognized this weekend and Mr. Fantastic with his FGF, I with My Guy, and all the kids (my boys and FGF's three youngest) went to celebrate for her. It was nice for her to have such a big crew there cheering her on but it was hard on me.
After we left My Guy asked about it. I struggle so much with the fact that I'm GOOD with the divorce and happy with where I am now, but still SO full of anger and hurt from how Mr. Fantastic treated me, during the marriage and since then. It is confusing to be happy with My Guy and hurting over the ex at the same time. When will that stop being so raw?
My Guy said, too, that his goal was to get things where he could see Mr. Fantastic or the FGF in the street and greet them without it being awkward. He's OK -- he said several times he looked at them and found them staring at him, and then they'd quickly look away. No one greeted one another. I did my best to ignore them, and My Guy just watched for cues on how to act. His wanting to be friendly with them upset me. Unreasonably. I know it's petty and bitter but it's true, as I told him, that if every single person I knew could greet Mr. F with a glare of contempt then I would be satisfied. I'm not proud of feeling that way but I can't hear his name without thinking of another way that he hurt me. Things bubble up constantly -- the lies he told while we were separated, his Tinder profile, his blatant reaching to the OW while I was sitting there saying, DO NOT REACH OUT TO HER (and he reported back to me what she was saying in real time - it was so ridiculous). The way I would watch his phone light up while we were having sex and see messages from her pop up. She only did it to get a job but all together it's a crater straight to the most hurt part of my heart, and while I'm working to fill it back in, it's been a long process.
When will that part end?
Other than the above, things with My Guy were very, very smooth this weekend. Something has clicked for me and we've relaxed into things a little more. It will be interesting to see where that goes.
MB, I'm so glad you and MyGuy have settled into something smooth. It's nice to see two people work on a relationship.
Sometimes it hurts me that people I know still seem charmed by Mr P, especially people at the church that know he was leading the worship service while he was cheating on me. And they go anyway. Even people I considered pretty good friends didn't take a stand on my behalf. I feel a little betrayed by them too, sometimes.
Something Betsey said one time was eye opening. She said she was talking to someone, a neighbor maybe, and her D came up, and she teared up, after all those years. That made me think that I may never be completely over the hurt, but that it's ok. Because Betsey didn't say she broke down and ran off crying. Things will ease for you, MB, time is a great healer. Just don't be too hard on yourself if you don't get to the place MyGuy wants. He has a different relationship with his X than you do with Mr. Fantastic, he doesn't understand where you are coming from. So his viewpoint is valid, and so is yours. See where time takes you both.
Hola, ladies. I've been on a break but I'm back. Lucky you!
Maybell, Sunny addressed the hurt part. And yes, it's true. I think the tears come when I'm not feeling well or having a vulnerable moment. It's like bringing up someone who has died in a moment that takes you off guard? I can't help it. It's not like it didn't happen and wasn't important to me?
Anyway, my Aries friend, much of your journey does resonate with me. I think it's time to go deep to address the stuff that still has you so raw. I have a recommendation that I might have mentioned before. Well, the material has been updated and given a new name. It's called Transforming Anger into Forgiveness. Google it. The audio set is $35 and worth every penny. In fact, you can't get IC that gives you so much.
You don't have to be Catholic to get something out of it. He's not a preachy person. He approaches the material from the perspective of being a human being raised in a dysfunctional, alcoholic family. The entire discussion ROCKED.MY.WORLD. I cried buckets while listening to it because it resonated with me. I really, really think it would benefit you to listen.
For the record, when my D22 was about 16 and ready for the message, we listened to it in the car on our way to and from volleyball matches. Yes, I knew where she was stuck, but she had to figure it out on her own, and this was a great way for her to honestly feel comfortable with the message. After that, I sent it to my sister (who is not a practicing Catholic), and she was equally moved and affected by the message. LOL, she's another Aries and super stubborn.
BTW, the forgiveness part will probably surprise you - because I'm not recommending this to you so that you can forgive your XH. You have some unique hurts that have been a burden, and I honestly believe you will be relieved to let some of those emotions out.
The entire CD set is about 2-3 hours, but you don't have to do it in one sitting. Hell, I didn't. I could only handle one at a time and then I needed to process how I felt. I promise you and anyone else who is interested that this is the best investment I've ever made. I'm feeling a little resentment toward a certain someone right now, and it would probably help me to dig them out and have another listen to the message.
You're worth the effort, Maybell.
Hugs,
Betsey
Betsey, I'll admit that for a few days I was chewing on your message thinking "No, I don't want to forgive him! He's a jerk and he keeps on dishing out hurt and I'm never going to get over it!"
But then he dished a big hurt to my D13 and I was so angry my teeth were chattering. And I sent him a very restrained message that he needed to STOP NOW, and then I let D13 know that what he was doing was self-serving and manipulative. Because I wanted her to not be gas-lighted. And then I withdrew from the issue.
And now I see that my strength wasn't in being angry at the past. It was in being able to see what his behavior was and how it was impacted my precious girl and in having the restraint to not unleash a tirade but to get straight to the point.
So, ok. Maybe it's time to dig deep on that stuff so I have the strength to be effective.
Maybell and Underdog
My views on forgiveness are a little different.
Somethings are unforgiveable and need not be forgiven. Ever. However letting go of resentment and the need for revenge to me is very releasing.
I aim for detachment and will be there when I have no thoughts of The Giggalo at all. Not even that he rots in hell for all of eternity. A lying cheating scum bag with an itchy nether and palm doesn't deserve forgiveness and he hasn't asked. He behaves as if he is entitled still to treat me and mine as he will. Also long as this continues then NC is my standard response. The more I do NC the more detached I am. Interaction of any kind sets me offor and triggers my PTSD.
My goodness I believe in retribution and Damnation especially for those who need a good dose of it. And it isn't my job to give that retribution either, I know that will happen unless he asks his higher power. I hope he does.
In twelve steps, to obtain forgiven essential we ask for it and we atone. Forgiveness is between ourselves and our higher power. It isn't my job to forgive the unforgivable by the remorseless.
A book that changed my mind on forgiveness is by Jeanne Safer.
I think we should cease to struggle to forgive, let it come in its time and when we are ready.
That's my thoughts.
V
Well, Vanilla... I really don't want to feel like that anymore.
I've been feeling a lot of heaviness on my heart and I can't quite pin down what it's from. I'm sad. Maybe the thing with Mr. Fantastic and my D13 over the weekend hurt me more than I'm willing to admit.
And My Guy was telling me more about his ex. It blows my mind. If I'd had the marriage they had I'd still be married. (I think). They did so many wonderful things together and they still spend time together. Which grates on me but everyone says how much that says about his character so I'm trying to get my heart around it.
I can't think of a single untainted memory of Mr. Fantastic. Every single thing that I thought was a happy moment is now poisoned with how the story turned out, and little things that seemed like "just how he was" at the time are now huge and sinister red flags in my memory. It makes it hard to relax with My Guy -- I feel like I'm constantly watching for red flags.
I lost an uncle in the spring. A great uncle about ten days ago. A third uncle is terminally ill and not expected to live past the holidays. I feel sad and alone. My FOO is scattered and no support to me, the family I made with Mr. Fantastic is broken, whatever it is I'm building with My Guy isn't well enough defined for me to be willing to lean too hard on him.
My Guy wants me to travel with him over the Thanksgiving holiday and I don't have the kids so I'm willing to. My parents want me to travel to the Midwest to say goodbye to the terminally ill uncle and participate in my mom's extended family's holiday celebrations. My parents spoke so rudely of this uncle my whole life, calling him names behind his back and criticizing how he acted, choices he made, whatever. Now suddenly he's dying and they're going to tell me how I should go and weep by his bedside. On my own account, I am sorry, He's WAY too young to be dying, and while it's true that he didn't always make awesome choices, it's also true that he did no worse than anyone else would have in his situation, and I can't see that he did any particular harm in his life. He leaves behind a very, very close knit family... Which is more, I think, than my parents can say. One of his daughters had a baby when she was seventeen, and that baby has grown up to be a 22 year old special education teacher, and my cousin is still married to the baby's father. Something went right there. Things went wrong, too with the other daughter, but just the same...
I'm rambling. This post was supposed to be about forgiveness.
Here's what I want, Vanilla. I can't go total NC with Mr. Fantastic, we have three kids together. I'm going to have to figure out how to heal myself without that tool. But I can't keep letting myself get twisted in knots on his account. He's so far beneath my energy. I have much bigger fish to fry. I need my energy and my strength for the things that are worth it.
I think I do need to start thinking about forgiving my parents for being who they are. They hurt my heart. But I can't live in anger with them either. I don't know the first step so the cd's Betsey suggested are probably what I should do. I don't want to live with all this heaviness and fear any more. I would rather bequeath some other legacy to my kids.
Hmmmmmm
Not forgiving doesn't mean holding on to anger or revenge or bitterness.
Forgiving is knowing it's ok if you can and no forcing forgiveness.
To me it's indifference, complete neutrality. I have no burden to forgive that's not my job, I don't have to fake it or push it or feel guilty or shame that I can't. No memes or cute sayings can push my buttons. None.
I simply say that's not my job. Just as much as curing a fatal disease in another is not my job, not my sandpit, not my circus or my monkeys. Forgiveness for the Giggalo is not my business unless he asks for forgiveness.
I am detached from the need to forgive or to not forgive.
My view on NC is controversial too, because NC is different in practice to the description. I still deal with the business I need to deal with the Giggalo and his faux L. I still do my stuff that is admin. Other than that no texts, emails, calls, vieying of FB etc, all his stuff is gone, I don't wear his ring. Other than here and to other DBs I dont talk about him initiate chat or comment. I deal with legall with L. I reduce triggers, I am ruthless in cutting contact. He is blocked every which way I can manage. I have had to research his FB page to provery he is in Italy with RIT, I do so quite mercilessly so he doesn't know for Intel. NC is a state of mind and that includes excluding him from influencing me.
Perhaps my lack of anger serves me well now.
You can do NC I think even in the midst of a high conflicted D. As I don't have children then I can't advise on the interactions in D. In my book admin is no breach of NC.
Lack of Forgiveness and NC sounds troubled and angry. For me it is the opposite it is peace harmony and delight.
It is detachment and where I want to be indifference.
V
My condolences on the loss of your uncle too. No matter he was young to leave his children and grandchildren.
V
Quick before I head to the car dealership...
The tapes aren't about forgiveness per se. They are about transcending anger. And I did say that I didn't mean forgiving your XH or anyone. Much of what I discovered to be the root of my own anger was stuff that was unresolved from my past and got in the way of my present. It was liberating to understand.
And for the record, I don't offer forgiveness as a blank check. Forgiveness is not forgetting. It's merely an effort to not let it get in the way.
I interpreted this because MB said she was sick of feeling the heaviness in her heart. What does she have to lose? Even if she only gets one thing out of 4 CDs, it's more than worth the $35 to get stuff to chew on.
There are certain events in my past where there will never be absolution - 1) maybe because the offender doesn't ask for forgiveness or 2) the events were too painful and deep to get to that point or 3) at this point in my life, absolution falls in God's hands. But by "forgiving" the event, I give myself permission to absolve myself for any part I played in the process and give myself permission to heal the wound and move forward. I hope that makes sense.
I think the word I'd much rather use is to accept. Accept people for who they are, but that might have to be with distance and detachment (in the case of MB's parents). They aren't going to change, so the only thing she can do is create and enforce boundaries and learn not to take *their* issues personally. I truly think their issues are about their unhealed wounds from the past and not about MB at all... though how they go about dealing with their foibles and fears undoubtedly hurts her a great deal. It's a tight rope.
For the record, when I listened to the discussions, I had a few "aha" moments. It forced me to see some people as they really are instead of how I wanted them to be. It actually helped me catapult to a higher place. I realized that much of their motivations were coping mechanisms from childhood wounds that were almost animalistic protections: the kinds where wounded animals lash out at others as a smoke screen to prevent them from getting hurt (or killed) further. Without skills to choose differently, it's difficult to heal those wounds and accept our humanity.
MB, my XH and I are both people whose periodic significant others have problems with how we conduct ourselves. It's still an issue from time to time. I can only tell you what we tell them: we're not getting back together and just because we are civil to each other and friendly most of the time doesn't mean we were destined to be married to each other. I think you don't have any or many role models here, which might be why you are having difficulty getting your heart wrapped around it. I will reiterate what others tell you: this man knows how to treat someone who has hurt him; the same is true for his XW. It just shows their evolution as parents. That's not to say you are not as evolved as he is! It's just that their R isn't about the tension. They focus on the kids and issues that surround them.
Let's steer clear of your insecurities for now. Go get the CDs and process some of that crap that's not sitting well with you. I'm not saying this is the be all to end all. But it's a start. And the presenters are human and not at all speaking down to the audience. I appreciated the humility more than I can put into words. I have periodic issues with my mom as well... you are not alone. Being hurt is okay. You just need to process the hurt appropriately.
Hugs, sister!
Betsey
Betsey, they don't have kids, but they are in frequent contact and spend a fair amount of time together.
Today would have been my 19th wedding anniversary. Have been exchanging emails with Mr. Fantastic all day about logistics like transferring the IRA, sharing kids over the holidays, and him changing the weekday schedule AGAIN. Not once has either of us observed the day to one another. Nor have we since he moved out.
Today I cried for the first time in many months. My FB memories are all about things like how excited I was to marry him, how adventurous our life together had been, and he had posted our engagement picture four years ago. I saw that picture and all I could think was, he was already cheating on me when he posted that. What a hypocrite.
I'm so well rid of him. But I'm still sad for how the story turned out.
(((MB)))
I know this is a tough day for you. I'm sorry. No words of wisdom, no advice, my experiences are different. So I'll just say I'm thinking of you today.
I am so tired I want to throw up. I just want to stop everything and have fun with my kids. My D13 is in full hateful mode again and I don't know how to manage the near-constant disrespect. My work is constant stress. I'm working 60+ hours a week and my family life is coming apart. I have no recovery time. I'm so tired, a weekend isn't enough anymore to refresh me because I just use it to catch up on the home stuff that's behind. I get almost no exercise and not nearly enough sleep and next to no relaxation and I've put on 15 pounds.
I don't see how I can live like this for the next ten years. But I don't know how else to get to a place where I will be self-supporting when the support is gone. I am so tired. So little of what I used to do to refresh myself is available to me. I had hoped to go to a spa-like thing on Friday evening but my director put another appointment on my calendar late that afternoon so that used up the time I had hoped to set aside for that. I'm spending basically all day at the kids' karate tournament even though it's their dad's weekend with him.
I am so tired. SO TIRED. I don't know how to cope right now.
Hey MB. I totally get it. There is a reason it takes two people to create a child. Raising a family really isn't a one person job. Cost of living is so high it practically takes two incomes to pay the bills, and being tied to a 60 hour gig is essentially doing just that. And even if XH does some things for the kids, you often have to duplicate those efforts anyway. Not like if he goes grocery shopping on Monday you don't still have to. All in all, too much needing to get done every day, anything but top priorities starting to slide, then they become top priorities soon enough and pile on, then the trying to keep a grip on everything falling apart around you, until one day you look around and wonder how your life became so frazzled you don't recognize yourself and can't remember what it means to have a spring in your step or be excited for something on the calendar.
I am through 90% of that now, so let me share some hope with you. When things are bad it's easy to extrapolate that out, and it can add to our feelings of being overwhelmed. I knew when I was going through all of this crap some things would change: I would move closer to the kids' school, my job would get easier one way or another, the D would be finalized. This didn't really change how I felt during the time (and it seemed like 10 years!) and I felt like I was tricking myself after a while telling myself it would get easier (like saying 'we'll eat soon' to someone dying of hunger) but I kept faith. Not even faith...just logical reasoning that something had to give. Well, I am not closer to their school, but work is easier, D is finalized, and I got the unexpected surprise of a lifetime with my mom moving in with me to offer some support.
Is there anything that might give on your side? Any upcoming changes that might make a shift? If not, and you are fighting to hang on with no possible relief in sight, you might have to make some hard decisions about where to give. We all know stories of single mothers that sacrificed everything and worked multiple jobs to support their kids without a moment's rest for themselves in ten years. I won't pretend that it doesn't happen. And there's a right time and place to make severe sacrifices. But long term I think you need to make sure you have something on the horizon to hang on for, something that could take pressure off your plate.
I know things are tough financially and we don't always get to just walk out on a job willy nilly. I will say I hate that salary employees get worked 60 hours a week. This is not acceptable. And I am PISSED OFF that your director would allow this knowing the impact it makes in your world. Seriously...this workaholic culture is not right. If you can't run your business without working your employees off the clock to their breaking point, you can't run your business. Grr. I don't want to hold people back that want to work 60 hours, and if those people get paid more or have access to higher level executive careers, hey, good for them. But for those of us that didn't sign up to sell our souls, please leave them in our still beating body for crying out loud.
OK, I'm working myself up, time to cool myself down. Sorry things are tough MB. I wish we could form a support group post D where we could actually help each other out. I'd love to come do a few loads of laundry for you this weekend. Maybe we should all move next to Sunny?
I'm sorry you are so tired and stressed. I know when I get exhausted I get completely overwhelmed and I can't handle one more minute of it. But then when things calm down again, I feel like I can again take on the world.
I can give you some suggestions on how to make it easier, but eh, I don't think that's what you need right now.
So I'm going to tell you to hold on tight. let the things go that can. Your house can be a mess as long as your kids are fed and clean. The family could eat some crap food until thing calm down a bit.
Fine, I will make one suggestion, and it's helped me. My D would like me to be at everyone of her football/cheerleading games, even on her dad's time. I take atleast 2 in the season where I say I'm sorry, but I can't make it. She gets over it pretty fast. Maybe if your ex will be at the tournament you can step out for a bit, do something nice for yourself and let him root them on.
Zues, villages used to raise kids. When I was talking to my IC, she said to look up some local single parent groups where everyone kid of takes turns doing things. Someone will cook dinner for everyone at night, someone will take care of all the kids while one gets stuff done. I've been thinking about starting something like that locally.
I hired a cleaning service for once a month yesterday. Something had to give for me too. And after work, school, kids, activities, I just don't have it in me to scrub toilets. So I hired someone to do it. If you could budget in a little bit of help, it might be worth it.
Hang in there. You've got this.
We used to stay in marriages too
That would be cool G.
We used to stay in marriages too
That would be cool G.
You popped into my mind this morning, Zues.
On the radio D9 and I heard that Vanilla Ice and his wife are getting divorced after 20 years of marriage. I said that's so sad. She said "20 years? That's a long time! They are probably too used to eachother now"
I wanted to cry. My daughter does not believe marriage should be forever. I told her when you marry someone you should both do the best no matter what, to stay married forever, because that's what marriage is. Unfortunately, she's only know marriages to fall apart. Her parents, her grandparents, close friends......
Her solution? She says she doesn't want to have a husband and she is going to adopt a child. (and she says I'm going to help her raise the child)
I can't tell you how heartbroken I am that she feels this is the way things are.
Perhaps I'm going too global here but it's not just your D. It seems like more and more the world has just decided that the norm now days is D and you don't stay together. I've watched the married at first site series as while I'd never do it in a lifetime, the concepts are interesting to watch - how love is a choice and M is hard, hard work! The thing is, one lady wound not even try for more than a week - never mind the six weeks it's supposed to be, she was out after a single week! Another had a fight and she moved out three weeks in. Just ran away - while still saying she was committed!!! Even these people who claim they want M more than anything are out at the first struggle. That's just how the world has gotten. It is so sad but even more sad it's not just you D. She could very well have parents and grand parents still happily married and still have these feelings. And you will help her raise a child - yep that's right out of today's playbook as well.
So I'm likely not making you feel better but at least know it's not you or what you have done - it's way more wide spread than that.
Maybe we should all move next to Sunny?
Hey, I'm up for that if you are. Maybell and I have talked about getting a duplex. It's really not a bad idea. LOL
I'm about to take a new job, it's the equivalent of the job I wanted all those years ago when I became June Cleaver instead. I really don't know how I'm going to do it, I'm looking to you guys for inspiration. And help with the laundry.
I appreciate everybody weighing in.
Zues, I'm not salaried -- I'm commission only, and I've never held a sales job before. Taking this on has stretched me WAAAAAY out of my comfort zone. I am one of a very small number of single moms in my organization in the COUNTRY doing this job, and and with less family support than most.
I am fortunate that my settlement was generous enough that I can afford things like childcare and cleaning help, but there are things that can't be delegated -- like homework oversight, etc. -- that I'm struggling to keep up with. D13 and I have agreed that if I sign up for a meal service like Blue Apron she and the boys will help prepare more dinners so we can have planned family meals rather than scavenging the fridge at the last minute because I'm too tired to cook what I had intended.
Additionally, I did only move a year ago. My house is still a work in progress. My routines aren't set in a way that makes the household run smoothly. If that were all in place, I'd be way better off.
I spent the first three months in this profession failing. I'm about to conclude my second three months and while they're significantly better, I still have a long way to go. I'm not accustomed to failure and there has been a TON to learn as I'm expected to be a top producer at the same time. I'm poised now to take off. But I am so tired.
On a slightly different note, D13 was telling me how one of her best friends (also 13) recently broke up with her boyfriend because he was pressuring her to start kissing him -- because his friends were teasing him that they hadn't yet. She told me that she felt really badly for him because he's diagnosed with depression and takes medication for it and that he was extra depressed because her friend had broken up with him. He asked my girl to intercede for him (thankfully she had the sense to decline). I told her that there would always be that pressure and that a girl should never acquiesce to something she wasn't ready to do herself. That the boy was going through something all boys would go through and that his depression couldn't be an excuse for giving him what he was asking for. That she should be prepared to see that pressure happening for the next thirty years and that she needed to decide how she wanted to handle it for herself.
She said: "Thirty years? I'll be 43! You don't expect me to be, like, married, when I'm 45?"
So not everybody expects life to go awry. I'm glad she still has faith in the institution, although it's clear that her faith in her dad has gone down the toilet.
I laughed and told her I had no idea what her future held, because she is so much her own person.
Sometimes things go ok. I will get a little rest this weekend, even if it's not enough.
Thanks for letting me vent here.
Maybell,
I come offering hugs and coffee (or tea). It wasn't terribly long ago that I was in your shoes and feeling hopeless and full of despair. The important thing is that you have emotional support - if only to say we have your back and you're gonna be okay.
So, the only thing I can do is tell you that how you're feeling is completely understandable and normal. You're ok. You're not imagining that a 13 year old girl is hateful one moment and loving/helpful the next. Dare I say to make a mental trip back to 13 and recall how you were? My sister says it best: we were trolls. Hideous, awful trolls. The only reason my D22 was not a troll at 13 (she was delayed LOL) was because she was so in love with volleyball at that age and her devotion to the cause eclipsed everything else. Once that devotion was behind her (you know, the blind devotion), she became a troll. A hideous, manipulative and mean troll. Five short years ago, I probably cried more than I ever cried in my life.
I also understand the pressure you have at work. I'm self employed and I pay everyone else before I take anything. I haven't paid myself all year, thanks to predictably horrible corporate purchasing (or lack thereof) during election years.
Going 100% commission takes balls, and I wish I could find someone like you to come work for me. So swing those balls around with confidence, because it takes a confident and capable person to make that work. Give yourself a little time to kick into gear, and once you do, you're gonna kick ass. Hopefully, your employer has your back as well.
I moved less than a year ago and my house (and furnishings) are not settled either. There are days when I feel motivated, but most days I'm too tired to continue. I hire a handyman when my list exceeds 4 items that overwhelm me. I'm at that point again myself.
I keep a clip board of paper and write down stuff that needs to be done. When my D22 was at home, I deliberately kept it out in the open so she could see what chores were present just to keep our family going. When she was feeling helpful, she'd do some stuff on my list - like mow the lawn. You've got 3 kids, so perhaps your list would get some more assistance? It surprised me at how much happier I was at home when I felt supported.
The last (and most important) thing I want to say is that you absolutely MUST schedule some time for self care. It's a disciplined way of creating balance in your life - mainly the balance of staying sane with 3 kids and nourishing yourself.
I might have mentioned here at some point one of the best penance assignments I ever received. It was Christmas time, and I told my pastor in the confessional that I was a lousy mother... that I lost my temper too often and took my stress out on the girls. When I finished going on about how unhappy I was about the job I was doing (or not doing), he looked me in the eyes and said, "When was the last time you scheduled some fun for yourself? And I don't mean scheduling around your XH's schedule. I mean prioritizing yourself over everyone else." I told him that I couldn't remember. Instead of 3 Hail Mary's and 3 Our Father's, my pastor told me that my penance was to hire a babysitter and go out with my girlfriends and have a damn good time. When I looked at him with a WTF expression, he said, "In order to be a balanced person who can do the job you're doing, you have to not only show yourself that you know how to take care of yourself, but you teach others that you're important too."
I've never forgotten that, Maybell. I can't be a martyr and expect balance and fulfillment. Besides, you and I didn't sign up for martyrdom. All we want is some breathing room.
BTW, since abandoning my menu due to lack of time was my strong suit, I developed an extreme fondness for my crock pot. I have a couple super cookbooks devoted to the crock, and my BIL and I share recipes all the time. I have a timer for the nights where we get home later so things don't dry out. It's a lifesaver! If the recipe requires chopping anything, I do it the night before... when D22 was home, we'd use that time to do it together and catch up. Even when we weren't talking much. Right now, I use the crock pretty much every Sunday so that I can have the day off from cooking, and we have leftovers for Monday night. It's a winner!
And good for you for listening to your D13's stories. I can't stress enough how it might be a lifeline later in her teen years to know that you listen. My D22 is now going through something that has her questioning everything in her life, including her BF of 3 1/2 years. It's super hard to watch someone you love be so unhappy. But my job is to coach her as she figures it out. I wound up recommending a book on fear by Susan Jeffers, and she got started reading it yesterday. Anyway, it didn't get to this without a whole lot of stuff in between.
I have an air freshener in my car that has long lost the freshening capabilities. It's an owl with a saying that I love: Love the life you live. It's kind of a constant reminder to live in the moment.
Good luck and hugs to you!
Betsey
My D22 is now going through something that has her questioning everything in her life, including her BF of 3 1/2 years. It's super hard to watch someone you love be so unhappy. But my job is to coach her as she figures it out. I wound up recommending a book on fear by Susan Jeffers, and she got started reading it yesterday. Anyway, it didn't get to this without a whole lot of stuff in between.
Me thinks Volleyball withdrawal, she is in transition having graduated from college - I have faith in her that she will get through this transition too!
I'm struck by your feelings for Mr Fantastic because I've something similar for XW, although maybe not as strong. But I feel slighted and resentful, that's for sure. And, like you, I want to let go.
I've realized that when I have small arguments with her (or with anyone), I get most upset when I can't admit that I'm also at fault. I spin my strong arguments, somehow trying to stretch them to cover my faults.
I wonder if that's what I'm doing with my D: I spin on how that she did wrong, including the cheating, hiding and lying. And I'm right about that. But it also prevents me from thinking of what I did wrong. I'm no fan of Mr Fantastic, so it's hard to see what you did wrong, but perhaps it's accepting his behavior for so long? Letting him hurt you way past a reasonable point? Staying there, exposed to his abuse, when you should have run?
So what if, instead of forgiving Mr Fantastic, it was a bit about forgiving yourself?
Mr. Fantastic's sister's family is coming up for Thanksgiving. I'm going out of town with My Guy for the week but will be back the evening before they leave to get my kids. D13 wants me to arrange to spend some time with my former SIL. She's even offered to put it together for me. I am not averse... but I don't know how to do it, because I don't want to include Mr. F at all. And I don't want to spend a whole meal with my former SIL, partly because I will have spent about 10 hours that day driving and partly because, well, it's been 2 1/2 years, with one phone call and a few FB messages in all that time, and I just don't feel the need to stretch for her.
Mr. F's family took the news of his desire to split very much in stride, in spite of all the reasons they should have had to question him. My former SIL called me the week before he moved out and listened to me sobbing on the phone and never once followed up. I love my daughter and I don't want to hurt her, but really, it is too much to ask that I maintain a relationship with people who were ok with my being thrown over like a piece of moldy cheese.
That being said... I have been really looking forward to Thanksgiving with My Guy. Things with him are cooking along pretty nicely. We had one big argument over Halloween which we patched up the next day. I like that our arguing gives me the opportunity to see where I'm being unreasonable (and therefore to grow) and also gives me the opportunity to say, This is really important to me and here's why. I don't know if he's my One but I love being with him and the relationship thing is becoming more comfortable.
D13 will be starting with a therapist tomorrow. Three weeks ago things got REALLY bad and I threw in the towel. I saw the therapist myself a week and a half ago and liked her. Today I broke the news to D13 and said, this is necessary because we can't be fighting all the time for the next five years. We need to know how to get along with each other. That's why we're doing this. Some of the time it will be my girl and some of the time it will be me and some of the time it will be the two of us together.
Work is sometimes easier and sometimes harder. I'm trying to create more systems and routines for making my life work more smoothly and some pieces of it are coming together. My next area of focus is exercise. I haven't been exhausted to the point of debilitated in the last two weeks so hopefully I'm turning some kind of corner there.
Not sure how to close this... I want to kind of shout "I'm in love!" But on the other hand that's not exactly how I feel. I am in love.
But it's this very nice, quiet kind of love, companionate and also passionate at the same time, fun, but supportive. Not even the way I wish it could be but our situations are totally uneven because of the kids. So I'm doing the best I can. Which is not bad at all.
I may change my tag line back to "All will be well, and all will be well, and all manner of things will be well." That was my first tag line here, and back in 2014 it was a statement of faith and hope, not of conviction. Now I'm starting to see that it's true.
I'm so glad to see your update. In fact it saved me a post. I was thinking this AM when I sat down to catch up on all the treads here, hmmmm it's been at least a month since we've heard from Maybell. Was going to give you a poke and then saw the update!
Nearly everything you wrote makes total sense to me, well other than one. Taking D13 along with you to get help to navigate the teen years is a great idea. If she participates fully, it should greatly help. Also agree with your assessment of meeting the in laws. The biggest upside is for D as she will be her aunt no matter what. I totally hear you on the others. I never hear from my ex inlaws. Hell I've not heard from ex in 5 years. The step kids are still in contact and I see them as well but totally sense their struggle of being in the middle. Ex just wants to erase that part of her life and pretend none of it ever happened. It's hard to be in the middle.
Now the new guy or your guy or whatever. What's really going on there? It almost sounds a little like acting as if. He seems all in from what you write. You seem hesitant - almost like it's not what you really want but it's what you think you should want or is best for you. Am on on point? Rather than, "I love him so much, he is such a great guy blah, blah, blah" it's more like "he's not who I normally am attracted to but he's the kind of guy I should be attracted to and I should want so I need to keep at it and hope it happens." If I'm correct it's not even that it's not the right thing to do. Sometimes we are bad at picking them and pick all the wrong guys, yet when it's the right guy or girl on paper, we just don't feel it.
This is really hard, isn't it? We want to be able to scream IM IN LOVE and have those feelings yet if love is a choice and hard work, you are doing it all correctly - yet it doesn't feel that way? Am I reading that correctly? If so, how does that not down the road become "I tried I really did, but it's just not there and perhaps never was" you know, all the things that a WAW says. I'm not at all saying that's what you are doing - I'm really just brainstorming here based on what I think I hear you saying. It's almost like he's solid, he's quality, he's great - do why can't I shout I'm in love?
Did I get it or am I way off?
Maybell,
I'm sorry things have been stressful. I can relate to that feeling of wanting to pull your hair out and stick your head in a cement mixer kind of day...or month. I know it gets to us, but has anyone ever gone to their deathbed saying, "I wish I mopped more?" Not for me.
And nice post, Don. I can't speak for MB, however, is it possible that she is preferring to keep things a bit closer to the vest this go around? I don't know. Due to some of the things we did, some things were very public with x Mr.GB and then he put EVERYTHING on Twitter. And I felt exposed and kind of humiliated. So regardless of who I was seeing, I tell close friends but I'm not making public proclamations at this juncture. Maybe MB is a little hesitant not because she doesn't love NG, but rather she has trepidation not for him, but due to how some things played out with her ex. Would make sense. What do I know? Just a thought.
Hang in there, MB. Try to relax and recharge a bit.
So glad to see you post and to "hear" things are going well with NG. Sounds like you have a handle on things with your D as well, as handled as they can be with a 13 year old girl, anyway. I remember those days from when my Ds were that age and I do NOT envy you, but applaud you for taking on counseling for you and her to help you both navigate your world.
Enjoy your Thanksgiving with NG!
Hey y'all!
Don, I love him and am really enjoying him. If anything, he's a little further ahead than I am in the relationship thing, where I'm moving hesitantly, trying to make sure I understand him clearly and know who he is before I jump in feet first.
Our situations are very uneven because I have THREE kids and he has none. All the flex is on his side. We just finished a long conversation about how to kind of normalize our time together -- every other weekend things are frantic and there is a lot of decompression to accomplish, then it's normal for a tiny smudge of time, and then it's back to reality again. We'd like our time together to encompass more normality.
I hear what you're saying about the right guy on paper. I did give that a little thought when he and I first started dating because he is fairly far out of the box as far as "my type" goes. The things he brings to the table are really outside the realm of my experience and I value them enormously. The ways in which he doesn't conform to my prior experience are really positive.
You asked, how do I keep from being the person who says I'm not feeling it anymore, we're through... Mr. F and I went through a patch about 7 years ago where we both were not feeling it. I reached out to an old college friend who never reached back. Apparently Mr. F started sleeping around. I confessed and didn't do it again; he didn't. I thought about leaving, even though I had a preschooler, a toddler, and an infant... And I realized I couldn't be the sort of person who destroys a family. At that point I started really working on the marriage.
That's how I know I wouldn't just take off because I wasn't feeling it.
I have a lot of fears around My Guy. Judging him rightly is one of them. Understanding myself and my goals in a relationship is another. It's very, very important to me that neither he nor I gets hurt. When i start sounding shaky around here, it's because those fears have really reared up and gotten my attention.
Next Sunday is the one-year anniversary of our first date. I'm in love!!! I really am. But holy smokes it scares the he77 out of me.
You sound much more positive and the info you added makes way more sense. I think this has happened before, several times actually, including when you were trying to help me. The way you put it here paints a much more clear picture, at least to me. I can tell you without a doubt that being cautious, taking it slow, doing all you can to ensure no one gets hurt... Those are all things I very greatly value and am so glad to hear for you. I think you are doing well with all of that! A year is not all that long but in terms of an R it most certainly is a benchmark and milestone. In many ways I'd worry more if you were not in love by this point - unless it was much more a casual R. As for the chaos of balancing three kids in the mix - especially a new teen - wow, that's going to be hard. It's great the two of you are trying to address it, just don't be too disappointed if it's hard to change. It's a difficult balance where the kids really have to come first.
I'm so glad you responded again and feel so much better for you - probably because I understand more what you are staying. There is no rush here - as long as he's not expressing one. You seem to be developing at a good pace, you enjoy being together and you seem to be happy. Don't pressure yourself for more. I just said this to Ginger and will say the same to you, you seem to be very willing to look at yourself and change when needed. Many people fight to admit anything even needs a look much less a change. You seem very willing to do that - at least as soon as you calm down from your first reaction.
Very encouraged and happy for you. Should you be willing sometime, you've mentioned multiple times how this guy is not your typical type, how he brings different things to the table than you are used to. I remember you saying he is not as "flashy" as typical guys, but not much else in the way of detail. Should you be willing, I'd love to hear how some of the other things are also different. I most certainly would not ask you to talk about things you are not comfortable with, but have the feeling many could learn from your expierence of how going outside a normal type is actually a good decision and can work. I know I would as its one thing I continue to struggle with. I am able to push myself to give a wider variety of people a chance but in the end I just like what I like and am attracted to what I'm attracted to - and it just doesn't happen much. When it's not there it's just not there and when it is, I feel miles ahead in attachment. How did you fall in love with someone who is not your type? That sounds like huge growth right there! I'd love to hear more sometime if you are willing.
Always great to hear from you Maybell!!!
The reason I sound down and uncertain is usually that I'm here for a vent session. LOL. Then I have to answer details and I realize how much I have to be grateful for.
So the family of origin myth about Maybell is that she's a super-smart indoor person who always has her nose in a book, is unorganized and not terribly practical, leads with her feelings, doesn't have a lot of interest or skill in athletic activities. The family value system is that we are ambitious people who all want to be very well-off. So I married a super smart, not very athletic guy with a lot of career potential (realized). And I ended up lonely, always doing things on my own or when it wouldn't inconvenience Mr. Fantastic, and he's so proud of his career success that he celebrates it by hitting the bars and sleeping with women who are impressed with his job title.
Clearly that combination didn't work.
Oh, and I dated lots of guys who were lawyers, had degrees from places like Harvard or Stanford (once, both) etc. Looking back, though, the one guy I was most excited about I never even went on a date with him, because he was a contractor with a really thick Southern accent. I've always regretted that. It was horribly shallow of me, and I really liked him and felt comfortable around him. (We met at a New Year's Eve party, and he kissed me, very nicely, at midnight)...
So when I was looking at my future during the divorce, I resolved that I wasn't going date any executives or anybody whose chief qualification was professional. At the same time, I was GALing like mad, mostly alone, and I decided that whoever I went out with was going to have to be the sort of person who was adventurous enough to take me to do the things I was too chicken to do by myself. Like kayaking, or hiking, etc. Someone who wanted to do more on a date than dinner and a movie.
Well. My Guy is a serious outdoorsman. He has an ice augur for ice fishing, for pete's sake! He's not the sharpest guy I've ever met and he can be pretty stubborn. He never just rolls over and does what I tell him I expect him to do. But he DOES express himself quite clearly. He NEVER has to be asked to help out -- he'll come over in the evenings and start helping me empty the dishwasher just because it needs doing sometimes. We go hiking and kayaking (he owns one...) and he is always on the lookout for some little festival or community event for us to participate in, with the kids or without them. The interests we don't share tend to be complementary. He wants to go fishing; I'll sit in the boat next to him and read a big fat history book, and we're both happy. That sort of thing.
He is ambitious for the things a decent profession can add to his life (like the ability to travel, or support a family) without being ambitious for success in itself. He TALKS to me, a ton, and sometimes asks for my opinion and takes my advice, which Mr. Fantastic (among others) rarely did.
When I say I went outside my type, I mean -- I spent some time finding out what my type really is. I didn't just go back to the same well over again. But I've also done my due diligence on My Guy. He's way more than just a type at this point. He just checks different boxes than the ones I always assumed mattered to me.
Does that help?
Your guy sounds like a keeper!
That helps a lot! It's actually somewhat different than what I thought you were saying and makes much more sense. I had the thought that you were looking for something else and found this guy and just stayed with it when really you were looking for something different all along and he fit the different you were looking for. For me I could totally see falling for someone that was outside of the circles I travel or my typical type but have not been able to force myself to like what I don't like - if that makes sense. Going from a well educated to a street smart with lots of common sense person is something I could do. Accepting a loud-mouth, smoking, truck driver swearing woman would not be.
I'm so very often shocked and even more so disappointed, as I hear how many and how often women accept things they know (sometimes not right away - it takes awhile) they should not. I'll hear women in real life or read on boards like this how their current guy is so nice, listens to them, does things for them, includes them, etc. I'm shocked, (but I get it) that they accepted that or allowed less than they should have in the past but on the other hand I'm thinking, I'm many of those things. I'm the things these women CLAIM to want - especially in OLD as well as in person. They give a list of what they want and it really is me - only when it's standing right in front of them, they don't want it. I'm also shocked and saddened at how many don't want anyone - or so it would seem. I've got an already long and now growing list of seeming great dating candidates that don't want to date me nor anyone else and have not been on a date for many, many years. Then there are those who are rarely without a guy. Not that I'd accept either of that - it's just the frustration of it all in hearing what they want, knowing you are much of that, yet...
But, not about me... what you said makes total sense now. I don't think it opened up a new revelation but it makes me much more understand what you are talking about when you say he's not your typical. All of the rest of it makes sense too. If you're willing to give him a chance, I have to keep hoping someone will eventually do the same with me. Only problem is, will I be interested in them? That seems to be just as rare for me. Oh well.
Hello peeps!
Here are some things that happened that are worth sharing.
1. D13 had therapy yesterday. Towards the end the therapist brought me in and I had a breakdown. Eventually she sent my girl out to the waiting room and talked through some of it with me, and eventually I decided to just come out and say two things: a) it's often hard for me to manage my girl when she's being difficult because she just reminds me so much of her dad and b) even though it's not ok to, I really hate him.
But things are shifting with my girl. Now she's being normal teen snotty, not snotty plus abusive and bullying. And it turns out that I can pretty well handle normal teeen snotty without taking it personally. So that's a good thing.
2. Mr. Fantastic's girlfriend has the same first name as me. (This is not the woman who broke up our marriage). Today for the first time he sent me a text meant for her, by accident. He was so embarrassed. And I truly did not care. And that felt GREAT.
However, an hour later he discovered his car had been stolen from his own garage (an offsite space he rents half a block away from his house) and I admit I didn't feel badly for him at all. And I'm totally OK with that. No guilt about that whatsoever. Besides, I suspect that one of the Fantastic Girlfriend's sons may have borrowed the car. It has a combination lock on the drivers door and Mr. F keeps a spare key in the console. It's not one of the usual targeted models...
3. My Guy has very opposite political views to mine and occasionally we'll get into discussions about various topics that can get slightly heated. Mr. Fantastic is a sharp guy intellectually but we didn't usually get into a lot of those kinds of discussions because we agreed a lot. My Guy is fun to talk to partly because he does NOT back down. I can keep a conversation going with him and it will follow a long path from where it started and we learn a lot about each other. It does sometimes make me pause -- can I *really* like and trust someone who I disagree with on such fundamental things? He points out that our values are actually fairly similar, it's just the conclusions we draw that are often divergent. My next door neighbors are similarly opposite in their political views (from one another) and they've been happily married for 30 years. So I try to keep my eye on the things that are really important -- like the fact that My Guy is willing to communicate these things with me, and that I have the good sense to listen to people I disagree with.
4. Our Thanksgiving trip was so lovely. I loved the rhythm of basically living with him for a week. He treated me with so much care. Twice I fell asleep waiting for him to come to bed, and woke to find that he had dug up a blanket to put over me because I was cold. Once he had to go down to the front desk of the hotel to get it and I never even asked for a blanket either time, although I wasn't warm enough. When someone protects you that way, who cares about political perspectives?
By the way, we've been dating for a year now.
5. I was in a meeting at work this afternoon and came out of it to see 7 text messages on my phone. Turns out my mother's cataract surgery was successful. I had no idea she even had cataracts. All the rest of the texts were my brothers and sister-in-law saying they'd been praying for her all day.
My grandfather (her father) died on the operating table during cataract surgery when I was 14.
I haven't spoken to my parents in about a month. It's hard to. They are so busy playing all the time, and when I try to talk about what's going on in my life they throw really trite advice at me that isn't relevant to how I'm living at all. And time passes without my really realizing it. Then the more time that passes the guiltier I feel and I avoid dealing with it by avoiding calling them. And they never call me in the meantime, and then I get a text saying Mom's cataract surgery was successful and now I really feel like a jerk so I want to call them even less. I don't know how to break this cycle other than to put calling them on the calendar.
And my mother is so clear with her boundaries of what she will and will not do. She WON'T come up to visit because it's too far (although they're they ones who moved away from me). But she wants me to send the kids down "when they have a break sometime" so she can "help me" by looking after them when I'm too busy. I say "They don't have any more breaks until Christmas" and she says, "you know, if one comes up." Because we all know that's how schools schedule time off. But anyway...
6. Work has gone simultaneously a lot better and a little bit worse. But I feel like I've turned another corner. I can see how things are supposed to work and all the plates are spinning at the moment. Getting that to come together has woken up a piece of myself that has been dormant a really long time, maybe even since BD. The kids are with their dad tonight and so My Guy came over and I cooked a really nice steak dinner, etc., and after he left I moved the laundry over and bled my radiators. I've been worried about the dang radiators for months and now after a two minute Google search and 15 minutes with an adjustable wrench, the problem seems to be solved. That has given me a little more confidence that I can get the rest of my act together too. I SO WELCOME the idea of feeling competent again. I hope this feeling lasts.
Sorry for the novella. Believe it or not there are a few important things I left out, but I want to cogitate on them for a while before I admit to them out loud. I think saying the ugly thing about D13 to her therapist released some of the anger I'd been holding on to and I'm so relieved to let it go that I feel a lot more like myself than I have in a long time. It's a good feeling.
Glad to see such a great update. Congrats on your one year! I'm happy your daughter is turning a corner. That's such a relief for the both of you.
I am also glad your opposite political views are not breaking up a relationship, but it seems to make it stronger in a way. I've seen politics destroy too many friendships as of late.
Thanks for the update! And congrats on the one-year anniversary!
Awesome update, Maybell! Good news on all fronts. Isn't that "I don't give a darn" feeling a wonderful one, when it finally comes?
Happy one year anniversary. Keep on keepin' on!
Man, how time flies! Been over a month since we've heard from you Maybell, with Christmas and a brand new year thrown in for good measure. Hope you are doing well and looking forward to hearing an update.
I'm so happy to read your updates and see how things are going in detail, Maybell. As usual, I'm impressed and humbled by your introspection and silver-lining-discoveries.
I struggle intensely with how similar my D9 is to stbx. Admittedly I find myself trying to "fix" it out of her. Ugh. How awful is that?
Keep up the awesomeness. It has always looked good on you.
Not much of an update but I'll post one anyway...
All is well with My Guy. He's away for the week and I took the opportunity to just rest. I have a bad cold and I was basically in bed asleep until 3 pm on Saturday, which was glorious. I miss him but I rarely get time to really rest so I milked it for everything while I didn't have the kids.
This relationship feels like it reaches me much more deeply than any other I've been in. It's a little hard to describe, but everything about it feels very real. When we have a conflict, I will say what's on my mind, or he'll say what's on his mind, and we stop and listen and it pretty much comes out ok. I am always so relieved that he never promises to be anything other than what he is. I feel like I'm dealing with an honest person that way. I can remember what it was like to be in my other relationships. They weren't like this. My bad college boyfriend was almost stalkerish he was so attached to me, but I couldn't talk to him. Mr. Fantastic was kind of in a routine, it was weird, almost like he didn't want to be there sometimes. But then, I have a letter he sent me after a fight we had where he said he felt like we would do well married because we knew how to resolve a disagreement. (HA! HA! HA!!!!!!)
With My Guy, though, we actually do talk things through to a point where whatever the issue was is put to rest. That doesn't mean it's necessarily changed, but there is peace around it. I trust his innate goodwill. I'm not ready to commit to him for the rest of my life because I don't know if the things I'm able to relax into right now will stay at rest, but for the moment, he has become my gold standard for how I want a relationship to feel.
I had the weirdest 2 dreams about Mr. Fantastic a couple of weeks ago. In the first one, we were moving away from each other, and I was laughing and I said "We should have done this years ago, we never got along so well as we do now that we're breaking up." And I actually hugged him and kissed him on the cheek, and he smiled at me too. The second one I remember less, except that I felt really friendly towards him and even cracked jokes with him. When I see him in person, I don't feel positively or negatively towards him. I seem to have found Meh. When I see him, I wonder why on earth I was married to him, and what I fought for. He's just so utterly unappealing to me now. Not just in a physical way, but I look at him and just can't imagine even having much of a conversation with him. It's interesting, and a relief.
I was talking on the phone to my mother last week, upset about something going on at work, and she started in on how angry she was with him again. I stopped her and said, "He is so beside the point it's not even worth getting angry about anymore." And I really meant it. That was very freeing. The consequence is I have been asking for more help from him, as in getting D13 (almost 14) to her therapy appointments, etc.
D13 is becoming a problem again. She's been CURSING me out 3-4 mornings of every 5. For the entire morning. This afternoon I left a vm with the therapist and said I didn't know what to do and that if I needed to have a one-on-one appointment of my own with her then that's what I would do. Interestingly, while I was going through some old papers over the weekend I found a note page I'd written in 2015 with her name and number on it -- apparently I was going to start seeing her after the bad therapist. I remember talking to her on the phone and I just couldn't bring myself to go. How times have changed.
I threatened the kid within an inch of her life and she's got some short and long-term consequences of continuing that behavior so hopefully that plus whatever magic the therapist can cast will help.
The job trudges on. I'm not afraid of being terminated but I've got to seriously BRING MY GAME. Putzing around isn't going to do it and I'm coming to the realization that I've let fear control me for far too long. This isn't rocket science, I can do it.
I appreciate there are a few people who still like to hear from me, so thanks for the shout out. I'm sorry I don't interact so much anymore, I just don't know that I have a lot to add.
Hugs!!
This is the list I made of what i wanted, around the time I started dating:
Tall
Fit
Confident, in charge
No Guessing
Handsome
Playful
Open but not overly serious
Damn good kisser -- and see in charge, above
Not needy -- happy with his life but wanting to share it
Yeah, reasonably liberal
Articulate
Kind, caring, gentlemanly
Easy
Interested in me
For myself -- what I want from my life:
Someone who listens to me sing and thinks it's great. Who wants to help because he cares about me. Who does stuff.
What I want from my life: To pull the house together. To have my life together. To be the best of myself. Always. To not be in PTSD because Mr. Fantastic is an a-hole.
I'm going to be ok. I'm going to be alone for a while and that's probably good. But I do want to work through my fears and realize I really am OK. I'd like to meet someone brave enough to care about me. I'd like to not make a totally fool of myself.
Had a fight with My Guy last night. It started as something tiny but I overreacted and he stormed out. He wants an apology. I am exhausted from work. I think we both did wrong in the argument and there is clearly more on both our minds than the thing the argument was about.
I don't know how to conduct myself over this mess. I wish I could reduce my work time to 30-40 hours a week but that looks unlikely.
I know I haven't contributed much to the community lately but if anyone has wisdom I need it. My well has run dry. There are a million things going on in my life right now and I'm just tapped out.
Maybell,
I hate those arguments that escalate from nothing; they usually leave me feeling badly for a few days. My go-to cure is to eat a plate of comfort food (usually pasta) and watch a romantic comedy. And, of course, saying "I'm sorry" helps as well.
I apologized.
I still feel utterly depleted.
Something has to change.
My well has run dry. There are a million things going on in my life right now and I'm just tapped out.
Sound like you need some recharge time. No need to put yourself out for things...take a vacation if you can. Do something just by yourself. Even if its for a day. Go shopping. Or window shopping. Maybe a day trip. Something just for Maybell and no one else.
I agree w/Jeep 100%. You need to take care of yourself and do something that will help you recharge. Also, please do not feel guilty or even apologize for not coming here. We understand that life in the real world needs to be taken care of first and, of course, the door is always open here if you wish to come here and post.
Please take care of yourself. You are number one and the rest of the stuff will fall into place.
I agree with Jeep and Job. Take time just for you to relax and refresh. I am a very introverted person by nature so when I was married, I REALLY needed some alone time on occasion just to keep from going crazy. You probably don't get much time just for you, so try to take it, like Jeep said, even if it is just for a day. Call in sick to work and stay home and turn off the phones and computers and just relax...take a bath, listen to music, read, paint your nails...whatever it is that floats your boat.
Maybell,
I'm sorry you are exhausted and feel you are at a wall. I can relate to that feeling. You have received stellar advice and you do need to take the time to recharge. Maybe get a massage? Have a cocktail and sit outside for a bit by yourself?
Take care of yourself.
Not sure if anything I have to say these days can be categorized as "words of wisdom" but I do have a hunch, thought, concern that others have not yet raised. I do agree with everything else you've gotten. Adding to that, is his reaction of walking/storming out not typical? I seem to remember one thing you liked and noticed was that he had this great ability to talk through things with you and not walk out? Has that changed? If so, my concern would be that he is approaching a breaking point with you. The fact that he sort of demanded you apologize rings of enough is enough already. Could that be the case?
I may not be correct in any of this. I'm not there and you are. But here's how it appears from afar in general terms - you are more type A and high strung, he's more laid back. He's used to you getting amped up a lot of the time and takes it in stride. He works through it with you and all is well. Only that's been getting worse lately and he's getting sick of it - thus the walk out and demand that you apologize. He did a 180 on you.
If I'm on point I'd pay attention to this and the suggestions of the others may help. If I'm all wet and way off, then disregard and move on. This is just what I get from what youve written. Even the most easy going guys can only take so much. You may have found his line.
Hope that helps - even a little.
Don: What a dire prediction!
We haven't had a fight since probably October so we were definitely due. He didn't walk out last night so much as he suggested he'd might as well go, and I agreed. We have an agreement that when he gets too angry he will excuse himself to calm down. I don't have that same option when we're at my house, so it was as much a question of me hitting a breaking point as him. If I had managed to calm down a little he would absolutely have stayed. But last night I had to drop everything I had intended to get done in order to give him the closeness he wanted and I didn't have a lot to give. He came in fifteen minutes after I'd gotten home from a non-stop 13 hour day and we had a lovely 90 minutes before I fell apart in response to something he said. The argument was a reflection of my exhaustion more than anything else, though he may not have realized it. I'm finding that few people who don't live the single-working-full-time parent lifestyle realize just HOW taxing it is, even when they have a lot of sympathy.
He has built a very easy lifestyle for himself. He goes where he wants to go when he wants to go. He naps when he needs to. He works out almost every day. He eats very healthfully and regularly. He indulges in his favorite hobbies whenever he wants. He has resources for getting ALL his needs met at the time that he needs them.
I, on the other hand, am chronically sleep deprived, ALWAYS behind on some part of my life, absolutely exercise deprived (and although I don't love it like he does, I'm definitely missing it) and at the moment there is not one part of my life except maybe him that is going smoothly. I'm missing my friends and feeling disconnected from what I thought was my social life. There are, at the moment, significant stresses in my work, with my kids (not run of the mill anxieties, but moving pieces I'm trying to manage), in my home, and in my person. I'm a walking minefield.
I agree that I am a demanding person to be in a relationship with. We talk about that from time to time and he has observed several times recently that I have relaxed a lot in the last few months. That doesn't make him the easiest person to be in a relationship with, though, and as wonderful as I find him, there are certainly challenges coming from his side of the fence.
In any case, I was able to take this afternoon off and have dealt with a couple of the most immediate things i wanted to take care of. I will go to bed early tonight and try to relax and get a little more sleep. I've heard from him a couple of times and it seem likely we'll spend a lot of the weekend together.
The kids' dad has been out of town for the last week so he didn't take them last night like he usually does. They haven't seen him in a week. My daughter texts him regularly but the boys haven't heard from him in that long either, and they keep asking when he's getting back into town, so he didn't communicate that with them either. Since the kids are taking care of his kittens they've been in his house several times in the last week, and my daughter has reported that Mr. F's girlfriend's son has left a lot of evidence of being in the house (including Mr. F's bedspread being on the couch in the living room... ???). I wonder how this feels to my kids.
Thank you to all the people who reminded me to take care of myself. It's nice to know I can come here for support and reminders that I matter too. Thank you.
This puts a whole different light on it - at least for me. Cut yourself some slack Maybell. It sounds like you are doing an amazing job under a huge weight. That really is a full weight of things. The fact that you realize, see and even more importantly admit, that your reaction had much more to do with all that's going on than anything else is HUGE. So many women, at least one's I've known, would not admit that if they even did see it. It all makes total sense - even him leaving, not in a slamming the door behind him way but in a it's likely the smartest move right now way makes way more sense.
Let me throw one more thing out here - have you asked him for help? If not, why not? I'd think at the point you are at in your R he may expect and even enjoy that. If I were your BF at this point I'd likely be saying "how can I help you" and then trying to do that - whatever it is (within reason). It almost seems like that would go a really long way for you at this point - whatever it is. Hell I don't know, that's why I'd ask rather than try to figure it out on my own.
So, I guess I'm even more with the others - take time for you, do something you need. That's not being selfish at all. In order for you to take care of the kids and the rest of your life, you have to take care of you. Most of all, cut yourself some slack. You've earned all of that!
Things are cooking along nicely with My Guy, no problems there.
I've had some serious problems arise with the kids' school. It comes from the fact that I had to sell the big "marital" house and move into my own house when we divorced. Our schools are bounded by neighborhood, and I accidentally bought a house just very slightly (by like a block) It was OK because the out of district policy was sufficient to keep the kids basically where they were (as I originally intended) all the way through high school.
Now they've changed the policy. My daughter is panicked about it and my sons are heavily concerned. Well, the boys will be OK. I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do with about S9, but S11's definitely changing this year.
I put "marital" in quotes when describing that house because he was heavy in the affair before we even closed on it and I lived longer in it without him than with him. It wasn't truly a marital home. I'm feeling spurts of anger at Mr. Fantastic for the timing of his &^^##%ing affair. He started cheating while I was still in California before we even moved out to the East Coast. He, with me, promised the kids it would be our last move. And he KNEW HE WAS CHEATING. Who does that? Who perpetrates a fraud on his children like that, buys a house in the MOST expensive part of town, buys a house with the MOST expensive upkeep he could find (there were two others I was interested in that cost $100k left, with little maintenance; maybe I could have kept the house if he'd been more reasonable) and then doesn't even engage with the problems that arise from the fallout of his actions? If my kids ever find out about this they will be very angry with him.
I am certain the kids have mentioned the school situation to him, because they are highly anxious about it. But he hasn't said anything to me about it at all. I think again he blames me for that. He has complained before that "I don't engage" and that is true. I don't want anything to do with him and he has never actually contributed to the solution of a single problem. He's caused a few.
Of course if I were to throw any of this at him he'd just blame me for buying out of district but there were only two houses available at the time when I needed to buy and I chose the one that made more financial sense, thinking it was in district. Turns out I'm in a notch, one block out of district. So I'm frustrated by that too.
I know that in the long run these things will be blips (at least for the boys. Possibly not for D13). I believe that everybody will be fine. But they are very anxious and I have been trying to shield them from too many of the consequences of the divorce where I could and generally, I've been successful. I can't shield them from not having their parents married to each other but I don't have to be too angry about it. I can support their relationship with their dad. I even defended Mr. Fantastic's girlfriend to D13 when she was acting out because she thought the FGF was the reason we split up. But I can't shield them from this and it pains me every time I have to cope with fallout from his jerky, irresponsible decisions.
That being said, I'm lucky I'm no longer bound to such a person. He led my family for years!! And to think my plan A was for him to continue to lead us. So thankful for plan B. It could all have been so, so much worse.
With apologies to all the amazing parents who have been doing this all along, how in the everloving merciful heavens does one balance a full time career with single parenting? I'm horrible at both things right now. Not just not great, but actually failing at important tasks. I've never yet been great at my job, but even when I'm doing moderately well things fall apart at home. When things at home are in tolerable order the job suffers noticeably. Never am I able to prioritize my own needs, unless you count time with My Guy, and then it's at the expense of friends or exercise. Is it possible to make it all the plates spin together or is this how it's going to be for the next 8 years???? Or should I dial back on my career aspirations and enjoy my life a little more?
Maybell, I can certainly relate and understand your struggle. I've been doing it since my D9 was an infant. But I have only had one kid, and boy, do I give you props for making it work with 3!!!
My journey hasn't been an easy one, and I haven't gotten much help except from paid sources. I've had quite a few different jobs within my profession to try to make this work.
I currently work full-time, I am back in school, I attend the gym, have a new boyfriend, and of course care for my D9. Some days it falls apart. Other days it just works. My work has been suffering a little lately, but I have to get it back on track. Prioritizing is key. I don't think we could be superwoman at everything we try to tackle, but we can only do the best we can.
One thing that has really helped me is having my D9 take a decent amount of responsibility. I explained to her I need her help and I need her to be a team with me. I do not check to make sure her HW is done. I ask, if she says yes, I take her word for it. She knows I will find out if it isn't, and there will be consequences. Of course I help her where it is needed. She does her own laundry. She packs her own lunchbox every morning. They sound like small things, but they help me tremendously.
Career wise, I make decent money, my job is pretty easy, but it's not where I want to be professionally right now. But I understand it is a sacrifice I need to make right now. Something always has to give. My career gives right now.
I have once a month cleaning service. It's worth the money. I build my schedule around my exercise. I meal prep so there is always something to eat. I buy when I need to.
As far as the BF goes, he is great. We do spend a lot of time together, and I try to work that in. I let him help me. I let him do HW with D9 if he happens to be over.
My friends have been slightly on the backburner. Luckily they are lifelong friends who understand I am just trying to figure out how to make things work with a new addition into my life amongst all the other chaos.
My point is that sometimes certain things need ot take a back seat to others. And those things will change positions often. It's a lot of trial and error and it's a lot of accepting things won't be perfect.
Find yourself help wherever you can. The little things add up.
You are doing great. You are horrible at nothing. You got this.
Ginger, thanks for answering.
My kids make all their own breakfasts and lunches. They help empty the dishwasher. My daughter has done her own laundry for the last year. The boys are not reliable enough to do that but they do help with the trash, recycling, and dishwasher. Everybody helps with the groceries -- I break the list into chunks, the boys go off as a pair to get their items, my daughter gets hers, and we reconvene after each item.
Theoretically the kids do their homework without oversight (daughter since she was in 3rd grade), but this year the feedback from the teachers is that the boys weren't doing theirs -- at all -- and that their ability to organize themselves was horrible, so I've had to backtrack on that and start supervising it again. They can't do what they lack the skill to do.
I do pay for a housecleaner, and have for a long time. Also a yard service, and the kids all have the opportunity to select chores from a list and earn extra money, which they sometimes take advantage of.
My Guy is amazing and has done nearly as much work on my house as his own. I can't ask more of him than he does. I feel we're so lopsided in that way as it is.
Part of the problem is the stage we're in. The boys are in Scouts and my daughter is about to be as well. Everyone is in karate. The amount of after-work driving I do is significant. The time they spend with Mr. Fantastic is important but disruptive of things like homework and instrument practice. Things get forgotten at the other parent's house or are needed in both places but are too significant to have duplicates and too bulky to carry around (like the trombone).
Extra activities, like special Scout badges the kids would love to do, science fair projects or that sort of thing, often fall through the cracks, especially for the boys. D13 is quite self-sufficient so she suffers less, but she's also MUCH more insistent about getting her needs met and given that her therapy (also an interruption to my work) has made our relationship so, so much better I'm trying to respect what she asks for, because it's reasonable given her age.
We're getting MAYBE one family dinner a week together. This doesn't feel like enough, especially when I'm working a ton of hours and the kids are home alone together or in after care just putzing around. This gives me a lot of guilt and anxiety. I know that's not useful but there you go.
Jobs that I can't hand off, like paying the bills or balancing my budget, following through on keeping up with my family, etc. are just not happening. Every time I call my mother she starts off with "It's been so long since I've heard from you" and I just heard from one of my brothers yesterday that my dad isn't doing so well. But they *never* reach out to me. In my entire adult life, my dad has probably called me fewer than 20 times. I can't carry all this, and knowing I'm going to hear her complain about the time between the calls makes me more reluctant to pick up the phone. Most days I'm so exhausted I could just tip right over. (On the up side, I've never slept so well in all my life!)
My job is emotionally very taxing. If I were to do it right I could spend 70+ hours on it and actually see some significant success, but of course with three kids on my own, I don't have 70 hours to give to it. But I'm trying to give it 55-60 hours a week, which means very often I've got long hours and late evenings which sometimes impact the kids. On top of that, I'm pursuing necessary certifications that require a lot of study of very dry material, that's over and above my working hours. Should be 1-2 hours per night, but it's hard to squeeze in without falling asleep in the book.
Sometimes I wonder if I've had enough and should try to find a job that puts less strain on me, but the success I've had up to now brings responsibilities with it that make me reluctant to follow through on that.
How do we know when we've bitten off more than we can chew?
Maybell
That's a lot of hours. I know I work long days too and have no children or bf.
Please take extreme self care of you, you are very precious.
V
My job is emotionally very taxing. If I were to do it right I could spend 70+ hours on it and actually see some significant success, but of course with three kids on my own, I don't have 70 hours to give to it. But I'm trying to give it 55-60 hours a week, which means very often I've got long hours and late evenings which sometimes impact the kids. On top of that, I'm pursuing necessary certifications that require a lot of study of very dry material, that's over and above my working hours. Should be 1-2 hours per night, but it's hard to squeeze in without falling asleep in the book.
Sometimes I wonder if I've had enough and should try to find a job that puts less strain on me, but the success I've had up to now brings responsibilities with it that make me reluctant to follow through on that.
This is a ton of hours. I've worked those types of hours for bursts while I was married, but never sustained them. I might have a few months of that, then a number of months of 45 to smooth things along.
My current job is similar, but I just refuse to put in more than 45. I know that in professional corporate america there are careers in which 55 hours+ a week is the price of admission. I just can't do it. Unless my family was missing meals if there was any other way I'd go another way. I would rather have less meaningful or challenging work than be that over extended. My kids need me so much right now and they are all at critical ages in their own way.
I am taking them to chess tournaments as you know. I have a skype meeting set up with S12 and a guy that is going to do a little more mentoring for his mad coding skills. I do homework with D6. I do some chess homework with my daughters. I read to them, just finished Dune and am going to HitchHiker's Guide next. Should be fun. We eat at the table most nights and watch a show before bed (working through the old Full House sit com, it's great, all about a dad and his girls with no mom in the picture...).
Now, I have help as my mother moved in with me. It has been a huge weight off my back and I couldn't do all of these things without that support. But my point is that if I worked a 55 hour job I'd have to give a lot of that up. Maybe your children are a bit older and don't want to spend their time with you, and that makes a difference. My kids still want to spend time with me, maybe when that changes I'll change my priorities a little. But right now they need me.
I think you can do this for a while longer and see what gives. If your certifications are just a short term additional responsibility maybe it will lighten up a little. Maybe you find a way to manage all of this. Maybe your job can be smoothed into a 45 hour a week gig in the next 3-6 months. If in a few months you absolutely can't keep pace and there is no more you can cut from your plate, then you can always pull the lever and look at career alternatives.
What would you have to give up to work a 45 hour job? Income? Tenure? Quality of life? It's easy to say cut hours, but obviously it's not so easy in the real world.
Hang in there. My only real advice is not to extrapolate and think that it will be like this for 8 years. That's just too much. And it won't be. Something has to give. Just because you don't have the answer yet doesn't mean you won't find it. You will.
If it seems like you are burning the candle at both ends its because from what you describe, you are! There is a reason that the standard and norm is a husband and a wife. It really does take both people working together. It's yet another reason why D just totally [censored]. I know you did not chose D and I don't at all want that to sound like blame. I'm just trying to have it make sense.
I can tell you that among the things I really regret, is how much I worked and gave to a volunteer organization. It came at the price if doing more with the family. At the time I got tremendous satisfaction but now as I look back it was just not worth it. On top of it, much of what I busted my butt to build while putting in 60'and 70 hour weeks is starting to fall apart anyhow under current leadership. No one remembers or trunks much about my sacrifice so was it even worth it without the cost to family? If I can say anything here I'd say put family above any job. Yes you have to make a living and provide. Not saying not to do that. Just not at the first of the boys or your D. If something has to give, do the best you can at the hours you can and be good with that. I don't know how you do it. I don't know how I did it although part of my drug addiction was tied to that productivity. In about 6 or 7 years you'll still have plenty of time to full court press a job. You'll still be plent young enough, ge kids will be old enough and you'll have more time. It's okay to say you just can't do it right now.
Thank you all for the encouragement. I'm still burning the candle at both ends, but My Guy went away on a trip for a week so I've had time to myself to churn through some of the delayed house stuff, and that has helped my mental space. I miss him a lot, though, so I'm not looking to trade my relationship for an orderly home... I just hope at some point I get to a place where I am not in chaos even when he's around.
I've gotten very Meh about Mr. Fantastic, so I've slightly defrosted my stance towards him, which has had an odd result. It's that when I let him be around, it's like things are normal between us. And also, I find myself nostalgic for the days when there were two of us running the household and how much easier it was in those days. Especially in the last week, when I've had MANY dental appointments, kid events (not just activities), therapy runs, snow days, etc., and I recall how I was able to focus on doing what I did well and he was too.
This afternoon he came to pick up S11 for dinner. S11 and I were doing a little post-dentist science experiment with baking soda and citric acid and I let S11 invite his dad in to show him. It was a little family moment like we used to have, mellow and cheerful. I didn't mind him being in my house. He said it'd make a good volcano and I said that was what we'd done for D13's 1st grade science fair project. He said, "Oh." He didn't know, because he'd been in India that month. He missed a lot. And I felt kind of badly for him -- here I get to enjoy these wonderful moments with my kids, and say yes to things (even if I do have to also say no to lots of things) and he didn't even know how pleasant this could be.
We never fought. Even when he was hot and heavy with his affair, we typically had a show we watched together, drank a glass of wine together and chatted while I made dinner, and had a nice dinner together. We planned our move east together in a romantic golf cart ride around his parents' neighborhood. (Long story). I've spent a lot of time in the last three years concentrating on how he done me wrong, but the other part of the truth is that we got along together very well. We understood each other. He just didn't want to engage as deeply as I did, I guess, and he didn't want the responsibility of the family. I guess.
He was a horrendous husband. But he was a good buddy. I'm feeling sad that part is lost, because I can't ever let my guard down this much again or it will feel weird that we aren't a family. He chose to be in India the month S13 turned 7. He missed many of her birthdays, honestly, and lots of other things too. He kicked off his affair on S9's 5th birthday, while he was on the east coast and I was wrapping up our move on the west coast. He chose that. But even now, if I let it be, things between us could be so easy that it would be an easy slippery slope back into normal. And that can not be, after how hard I fought through the last three years. And am still fighting.
My Guy wants things between us all to be normal and easy and friendly. He took pictures for Mr. Fantastic at the last kid event, at Mr. F's request. But I just can't do that. Mr. Fantastic is a taker, and he will take. He can't help it. And I will let him, if I'm not very, very careful, and that can not be permitted. We are SEPARATE. I know who he is and that's not what I want for myself. I miss My Guy and can't wait for him to be home. I hope that isn't part of this nostalgia for Mr. F.
Betsey would probably say it's a good thing for things to get to this place, but I feel very strongly that I must guard against it. I miss my old, manageable life (and yes, I always thought it was manageable, but I also weighed 15 pounds more than I do now, so there was at least some part of me that was miserable...). I miss old patterns, an easy friendship, my sense of rightness. I miss the guy I thought he was.
Wow, Maybell....I'm always so in awe of how deeply you think and how well you explain your feelings. I know what you mean about keeping your guard up to avoid slipping back into a situation that might have seemed comfortable but that you know looking back now, would be bad for you. (Paraphrasing what you said, of course.) I long for those days when I had a partner, someone who stood beside me and made decisions with me.
Thanks for the update, MB. Stay strong, my friend!
You miss the life not Mr F.
That's ok.
Expected even.
V
I do miss my old life, but I also do miss the guy he used to be. I married him for a reason, and I miss the things about him that made marrying a good idea.
And maybe not the things that were a bad idea?
V
Obviously I don't want him back.
Tomorrow is my birthday and D14 asked if she could make the meal & dessert to celebrate. I said yes, and that I'd give her money to take to the grocery store to make the purchases since she insisted on the whole thing being a surprise. D14 is a great cook and a good shopper. She shops with me all the time and we often just split the list and get it done quicker. There's no reason she needs help, but she asked Mr. Fantastic to meet her at the grocery store this afternoon and help her.
I insisted that he not be involved. I don't want him anywhere near my birthday. I want nothing to do with him. I insisted on that with my D14.
How wrong was I?
Maybell,
I'm not walking in your shoes, but your D14 may have asked Mr. Fantastic to assist her in shopping for the items needed for your birthday meal. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think she was planning to ask him to come or participate in the cooking/baking of dinner. She may now feel guilty for asking him to meet her at the grocery store.
I think I would have just let it go, unless she mentioned she had invited him to come over. If she had mentioned it, I would then have had to say that you prefer him not being there.
Please don't allow Mr. Fantastic to ruin your birthday or come between you and your daughter.
I do hope that you enjoy your special day and most importantly, enjoy that special meal your daughter is planning to prepare.
I had already agreed to give her money. She didn't need him at all.
I spent last night looking at baby pictures with my boys and all the pictures of me were sad and fat. Like, VERY fat. I knew I'd gained a lot of weight but nothing like that. I've lost almost all of it, and as challenging as my life is, it isn't that hard to be reasonably fit. It reminded me of all the different ways he hurt me over the years. I can't remember one good thing about being married to him. I made purses out of pigs' ears for 15 years.
I guess I'm being sensitive today but I don't want him ANYWHERE near me. I don't want him doing nice things for me for any reason at all. He hasn't said Happy Birthday to me in 3 years, I don't want him contributing to my birthday and feeling like a hero for it.
I don't really have too much regarding your question. I mostly wanted to say happy birthday. Out of 365 days, you and my exW share the same bday. Wow
As yo D, you might have asked her why she wanted ex to help. That might have helped you decide how to best handle that.
Happy belated birthday, Maybell. Hope your day was good and you enjoyed yourself.
Hi Maybell,
I always twitch when my kids spend time with STBXW when they are supposed to be with me. I don't want them spending a minute more with her than they are legally obligated to. That said, in my case it is borne out of an insecurity that they like her more than me, and a fear that she will take them away from me. What is driving you?
I wish you a very happy (belated) birthday, and many more in good health.
RAI
Maybell,
Happy Belated Birthday! I do hope that everything turned out okay and you were able to enjoy your special day.
Thanks, Job,
My birthday was OK. Not top ten but better than the last several and that's nothing to take for granted.
Things have not been 100% smooth sailing with My Guy. He's very attached to his ex-wife which gives me heartburn. I'm trying to take it for what it is, which is just a close friendship (they've been divorced for 4? Years and he moved out six years ago) but I find it challenging. Not for any particular reason, and I wish I understood it better.
D14 has been doing MUCH better since she started therapy. S11 is having some growing pains but really taking effort with himself, which makes me proud. S9 is worrying me, more and more in the last couple of years than he ever did when he was small. I'm really aware of how much they've grown in the last couple of years, and that I only have a very small amount of time left with them. It makes me sad. We have few family evenings available with all their activities and the time they spend with their dad, so I miss them a lot of the time. When they are grown and moved away from me, what will I have to show for my life? Maybe My Guy & I will be a couple with a cool life. Maybe not. My job has hit a significant hitch (I'm not cut out for the sales gig as I perform it here) and the thought of finding yet another new role is unnerving. My boss here is excited to keep me on in some other capacity but it's still hard to see this girl, who had the 4.3 GPA and the 1360 SAT and the huge scholarship and all the other academic achievements I had WAY BACK, and realize this is what I've made of myself. Divorced mom who can't support herself if the alimony were to stop. Failing in another job. So depressing.
I was talking to a colleague with many more years than me in the business, and mentioned being Den Leader for my S9's Cub Scout den because nobody else would do it. He said "WTF are you doing leading a scout den when you're supposed to be working your a$$ off here? It doesn't matter what your reasons are. You need to tell him, sorry honey, Mommy is trying to build a business to make all our lives better. If nobody else will step up then there won't be a den."
I feel like a chump but I just can't see sacrificing my family for this career where I'm not sure where the payoff is. I'm not selfish enough to do this job. I do have the LEAST support of anyone I know in this business and with or without Cub Scouts, that would be a huge challenge. But I'm just not willing to sacrifice my kids that way. I fought for the settlement I got to make sure my kids would be OK. As I see it, getting a career rolling that would make me self-supporting is about ME, not about the kids (except that I won't be a burden to them when they're older) and so even if Cub Scouts were a dealbreaker, which it's not, I'd have a hard time giving that up on top of all the other stuff the kids and I have given up in our family life. Zues might disagree with me...
Although I'm totally strung out on adrenaline and cortisol, I'm good for the most part so I don't want to sound like Debbie Downer. I'm headed down to see my parents this weekend for the first time in a year. I hope it's better than the last couple of times I saw them. My Guy and I have a vacation planned in July that I'm really excited for. I hope he likes/loves me enough that he's looking forward to it as much as I am.
Reading this over I see it's not particularly positive. I don't know if it's the time of year (roughly 3 years since Mr. Fantastic moved out) or if it's me, or the job, or everything together, but I haven't felt like my usual self lately. I can't find my sense of lightness or my humor or my fun. I would love to sit down and have a nice big cry but I don't know what I'd be crying over -- I am so lucky to have a nice life. Still, it's there, and I hope I figure it out because this isn't helpful.
(((MB)))
Sometimes a good cry can be cathartic, even if you don't know exactly why you are crying. It might help. I think we sometimes get stuck in that rut of negativity thanks to the things going on in our circle and it can be hard to get out of the loop. Hang in there, lady. It will get better.
Let yourself cry. There's no shame in it, and it doesn't need to be able to be reduced to reason or cause. Something wants to come out. Let it!
[Not weird at all that a birthday could trigger sadness -- taking stock is important, but we can also be our own worst enemies. Focus on the journey and how far you've come. And be kind to yourself!]
Didn't get a chance to cry but I'm pulling myself together. I've been able to restart at least a bit of my running routine with a friend, and that is helping.
I spent the weekend with my parents, who I hadn't seen in a year. There was a little bit of aggravation, but on talking it over with a friend here, he put it in perspective that helped a lot.
D14 is really pulling herself together lately and that's a huge relief. The kids spent last night with Mr. Fantastic after not seeing him for two weeks (or hearing from him in between either, except he texts with D14) and S11 said they really spent almost no time with him yesterday because he ran D14 to karate and didn't come home to spend time with the boys while she was in class. He's leaving tonight to go away for 5 days so they won't see him for a whole week again. I'm too resigned to be disappointed in him. But I feel sad for them. And for him, sort of. He has no idea what he's missing.
All the dating stories around here have got me slightly spooked. I'd really like things to work out with My Guy. What is the ratio of post-divorce relationship successes? Is there some crystal ball I can use to see if he's the good guy I believe him to be? Or to see if our relationship is the stuff that long-term romances are made of? Those of you who've been around for a while, what have you seen? How long does it take to know if you're with the right one?
Thanks for all your patience and goodwill.
I was talking to a colleague with many more years than me in the business, and mentioned being Den Leader for my S9's Cub Scout den because nobody else would do it. He said "WTF are you doing leading a scout den when you're supposed to be working your a$$ off here? It doesn't matter what your reasons are. You need to tell him, sorry honey, Mommy is trying to build a business to make all our lives better. If nobody else will step up then there won't be a den."
I feel like a chump but I just can't see sacrificing my family for this career where I'm not sure where the payoff is. I'm not selfish enough to do this job. I do have the LEAST support of anyone I know in this business and with or without Cub Scouts, that would be a huge challenge. But I'm just not willing to sacrifice my kids that way. I fought for the settlement I got to make sure my kids would be OK. As I see it, getting a career rolling that would make me self-supporting is about ME, not about the kids (except that I won't be a burden to them when they're older) and so even if Cub Scouts were a dealbreaker, which it's not, I'd have a hard time giving that up on top of all the other stuff the kids and I have given up in our family life. Zues might disagree with me...
Hey Maybell. Thanks for the update.
I don't know the ins and outs of your situation and it's up to each of us to weigh out our priorities. But I absolutely don't buy in with this belief of rise to the top at all costs to yourself and your family. I think that we have a workaholic culture that isn't good for anyone. Like my company, they give you a reasonable amount of time off, but then they frown on you for taking it and expect managers to work ridiculous hours. Most of the VPs in the company start sending emails at like 5AM and keep sending them on their blackberries until 10PM. It's like there's some game of chicken going on, or some auction where people are auctioning off their families and lives for a corner office and personal parking spot. It's really gross to me. That's why I stopped managing sales people and got back into a sales role myself, so I could be compensated based on results and not my very blood.
I have been struggling with the culture in sales as well. There's a perpetual sense of panic, it's never enough, the message is that we're always on the verge of disaster and failure and we need business right now today to keep alive. Day after day that is the message. I really hate this. For me, I have a few main motivators:
1. I like the feeling of being good at what I do. I enjoy the satisfaction of driving home knowing I did a great job.
2. I like helping my customers. It makes me feel good to know my customers appreciate working with a professional.
3. I need the money. Of course I have to get paid.
4. I like feeling safe. I work hard because I can't stand being in desperation mode. I hate feeling like I don't know if I'll get paid. I hate going into an appointment feeling like I need them to sign up otherwise I'm in some type of financial and social trouble. All it does is make it tougher to perform and make rejection more frustrating. So I work very hard so I always have enough going on to where one customer or one sale will never make or break me.
Because of #4 I am typically a top producer, but because other people don't necessarily push as hard as me it seems like my supervisor and everyone higher up the chain believe they need to continuously hit the panic button. All day long sending desperate messages making it seem the sky is falling and measuring results minute by minute. It is really disgusting to me. That's not very professional. Particularly from a bank that was just fined 200MIL due to high pressure sales culture.
To make it worse, and getting back on point finally, I am not the number one guy anymore. I am just not willing to auction off everything in my world to be at the top. When I was married and XW handled the children at home I could put nearly all of my energy into work. Maybe that was appropriate at the time, maybe I was too caught up in the competition of it all. But these days that isn't possible or desirable. I don't want to work 60 hours a week, I don't want to wake up before sunrise and work until sundown, I don't want to live that way. Instead I work a nice cool 40 during the week with the occasional hour here and there on a night or weekend if things really get bottle-necked. Mondays/Tuesdays I have my children so I often come home a bit early to spend more time with them, answering my phone if something priority comes up, then maybe do a bit of work after they go to bed. Wednesday/Thursday I work a little bit longer and get into a work focused rhythm. But I pick my kids up from school this Friday afternoon and I intend to enjoy my weekend with them.
Fortunately I'm good enough at what I do and I work super hard while I'm at work (I'm very focused and manage myself very well so it's very productive time continuously when I'm on the clock). So I'm not in any danger of failing and I'm meeting all expectations. And this is enough for me. I don't need to be number one. As long as I can be good at what I do, take care of my customers, get paid, be safe, and have time to enjoy my kids, I couldn't care less what some sr. vp thinks when he compares me to some single 27 year old with no kids that is trying to make a name for himself.
I don't know your sales gig. If there's no one that is successful working a schedule that is livable then maybe it isn't the right gig. But if there are people that are still meeting expectations and valued members of the team that are working a healthy schedule then just do that and who cares what mr. 'you're supposed to be building a den' or whatever is saying. When I managed a sales team of course I loved my superstars that were at 150% of quota every month and raised the bar. But when I had people that had families and other obligations that still showed up, were punctual, positive, professional, worked hard, and used their time to consistently meet the goals and sometimes go beyond...well, even though they weren't the top producers, I always valued them and admired them and made sure they were appreciated on my team.
I'm hopeful that's the person you can be on your team, but if it's one of those departments where out of 10 people there are only 2 people doing well, one has been there 12 years and is friends with the owner, one has been there for 7 years and is just getting by, and everyone else is struggling and searching for other jobs on the internet...well, if it's one of those gigs then you might have to make some hard decisions.
In the end though I've seen enough of you to know that you are very valuable and you'll always have a team to play on. I know exactly how tiring it can be to start a new position and have to go through that transition and learning curve, and I also know that moving to something less challenging is scary in that it might be a bit boring at times, but in the end you'll find a way to have work and your family.
Keep us posted on how things develop and hang in MB!
Happy belated birthday, M! It's never too late to celebrate. I am happy d is doing better.
Can I ask a question? I've been away. What is it about NG's R with his ex wife that bothers you? That may sound silly of me to ask...I am always friendly with exes, but I am curious. Did NG not want a D? Or is it that it just makes you feel uncomfortable or like you are vying for his attention (even though it doesn't sound like you are). I am sure somehow this stirs ups some kind of correlation to feelings of when married. I am finding those feelings are tough to battle sometimes:)
Hang in there my friend!
Hey, GB...
Ive given that question a lot of thought and here's what I've come up with. Which of these is true basically depends on what has been going on lately.
1. I'm jealous. He got closure. They had a long period of therapy that he participated in, they had multiple conversations about the pros and cons of breaking up, they have a close relationship now. I could have had that. Instead I got a self-absorbed cheater who said that he engaged in one-night stands "because he wanted to do something for himself for once."
2. I'm scared. What if she wanted him back?
3. I'm annoyed. He does a LOT for her. What does she do for him (take this one back to scared, too). Is she using him?
4. I'm possessive. If the zombie apocalypse broke out, he'd come fetch me and my kids... and he'd pick her up along the way. But there's only one of him to go around!
5. I want to be first. I am sad that we come to each other with these scars. I think it's fair to say that without the scars we wouldn't enjoy one another nearly so much, but still, I wish we were first for each other.
6. I think it's fair to say that there is not one single respect in which My Guy resembles Mr. Fantastic, but there are a few ways that I resemble his ex and a couple of times he's looked right at me and called me by her name. Oddly enough, people have called me by that name pretty regularly in my lifetime -- you know, in those moments when you stumble over a name, for example meaning to say Amy and Emily comes out instead... but for me, very consistently in my entire life, the name people stumble over when they don't get mine, happens to be her name. And we have similar favorite colors... I dont know. I guess I just want to be more special.
All that said, he seems not to have spent a lot of time with her lately, and our relationship continues to grow closer. I can afford, at the moment, to not worry too much about her.
All here is well. The job at the moment is more manageable. I had a couple of hours with no kids and no My Guy and I used them to bring my house under control, which is bringing me more peace. We got a pair of kittens who are the light of our lives. The school situation is under control. Part of me is feeling really content and part of me is waiting for the other shoe to drop... but I'm trying to focus on the contentedness.
We're on a camping trip with my kids and tonight after the kids went to bed we were talking about a big project My Guy is working on. I asked him what was next and he mentioned a major repair at his ex's house. The project is big, not ordinary maintenance.
I haven't met her though her house lies between his and mine. From different things he's said at different times it's clear he spends a lot more time with her than he discloses to me in the moment.
How can I envision a future with someone who is still so committed to his previous marriage? However much he wants to cast it as "just a friendship." The things he does for her are not things one does for "just a friend."
Am I overreacting? I feel like the Other Woman. I mean, if the zombie apocalypse broke out, I *think* he'd come for me. But I *know* he'd come for her first. I don't know if I can build a future like that.
Am I being unreasonable? He insists there's nothing about that relationship that could hurt me. But I haven't met her and I know he's aware of my feelings. I know that relationship won't become more distant from concern for me. I'm starting to think hard thoughts.
Hi Maybell, that's a tough one and I'm sorry you feel that way. Your feelings are perfectly valid and I can see that must be difficult. There is a balance between being a decent ex and holding a candle for your previous relationship. I can't recall if they have kids? If they do, that brings more obligation and responsibility. Though of course that needn't extend to significant maintenance jobs.
When I was with ex H, we had quite a lot to do with his former wife. I met her a year or so after I started dating him, and we were on good terms. Actually, when I came into the mix, things seemed to ease somewhat with them. Maybe some more closure on their D? IDK. We got involved in some small renovation projects in her house, but it was nice and we helped her with those together. Also had some dinners together, and she and I have remained on friendly terms since XH and I split up.
If he doesn't have kids with her - and does big jobs like this for her - I would be particularly concerned, as that just seems like not letting go of 'what was.' If they do have kids, it is more understandable - but perhaps a little OTT? What were the circumstances of their R ending? Her choice or his? And how long ago?
I guess he will do what he will do, and if it is a boundary issue for you, it is an elephant in the room unless you raise it. The pattern would be that you withold from him, and some intimacy is lost...etc...
Perhaps you might suggest meeting her? In any case, if you are invested in this R and you are concerned about his investment, I would certainly address it...
Hope this helps a little :)xx
I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. I kind of experienced this with my exH. My ex is this way with his sister. My friends who have known his since high school as I have find it kind of weird. She has always said "jump" and he says "how high?"
Whatever she wanted she got without hesitation, I asked for the smallest thing and he would moan and groan.
Do you feel he would do the same for you as he would for her?
Does he feel like he "owes" her something?
I really think you should bring up your concerns and your feelings. HIs reaction and explanation will probably tell you a lot.
For your future, I do think this is worth addressing and I hope he gives you some comfort clarity, and understanding on this.
This is a tricky one, or at least could be. The answer really may more be in the details. First off he's not hiding it from you, although he may not be providing all of the details. His actions may speak more to the type of man he is, and that part is good - or at least might be. But why is he doing this? That's where your concern I'm sure is. Is he trying to help his kids have a nice home or is he still way too attached to his old life? It may not even be his exW but his ex life he wants to hang onto. It may make him feel good to do these things for his "family"
You mentioned several times that you've never met her. Why is that? Just has never happened or by his choice to keep you away? She obviously does not have a BF?
I think you are right to question this. I'm not saying it should be a deal breaker but it clearly raises some questions. Have you told him how you feel and your concerns? I think more than anything, how he responds should guide you. From there you need to follow your gut. What does your gut say? Is there more here than he admits? Does he even admit it to himself? That may be the larger question? Would he or will he continue to do this after the kids are out of the house?
I may have asked more questions than I've answered although I suspect they are similar to the questions in your mind. Again, follow your gut here. If you think this is odd amd beyond what should go on, it probably is.
Hi Maybell,
If I remember correctly, NG has no kids? If that is the case, then I do understand your concerns. However, and maybe this is because I can relate to these things.....is it possible he just likes her? And I don't mean he has any romantic feelings for her, but perhaps things did not work out and he just cares for her? Maybe they have a deep friendship bond that transcended their marriage. I actually see how that can happen. However, I also understand how you may feel a bit uneasy with that.
NG sounds great and it sounds like he has really tried to embrace your life. I can't speak for you, but I do understand that it would be difficult for ANY one to embrace my crazy life. Embracing 3 kids is a wonderful, yet somewhat daunting undertaking:)
Have you ever asked NG why he is still so attached to his ex? Does he discuss a future (meaning would he consider marriage again) with you? How long were they together?
I guess I am with Don. I may have more questions than answers, but I do think NG's intentions are not malicious. Relationships at this point are challenging as we all have stuff, but I whole heartedly agree that adding unnecessary complications is a no.
Hang in there. I hope the weekend was good. Sending you a hug!
It's so weird the way sometimes she bothers me and sometimes she doesn't.
They don't have kids. He does just like her and care about her. He is also very, very attached to his past, and she's a big chunk of some of his favorite parts.
My Guy has been amazing. He helps with the kids, and would help more if I asked more. He comes to a lot of their stuff (karate belt tests and band concerts) which can't be fun for a non-parent. He helps me all the time, and would help me more if I invited him to. He has been patient and helpful and insightful as i try to navigate my new career, which has been unspeakably stressful and challenging. I know he'd rather I do something else, but he's supportive anyway. I appreciate him so much.
I think some of what bothers me is... why doesn't she have a new relationship? When we were newly dating (after 4-6 weeks) he told me that he'd made a point of going to her and telling her that he was seeing me. I asked him if she was seeing anyone and he said that if she ever had she'd never told him. I alternate between worrying that he's being used, or that she's gotten the relationship she wanted when they were married (being cared for and having handyman help, but not having to put a whole lot of effort into the relationship). I wonder why I haven't met her yet.
The day of my last outburst here I asked him that question and he said that because he knew how uncomfortable I am about her that he's waiting for circumstances to make it just happen.
I'm on an upswing again. But I struggle all the time with trust. I trusted that Mr. Fantastic cared about me and valued the life we'd built together. Then I found out he did, except the part that included me. What is so wrong with me that a cocky little twerp like him could treat me with such contempt and disregard? And so I worry that's how My Guy will come to see me too. And sometimes it's how I see myself, though I try not to.
Hi Maybell,
I do not know too much about your history with mr. Fantastic, but if he's like all the spouses here, it's not about you.
Anyway, I have been lurking on a dating site and I read the profile of a divorced man saying that he still has a good relationship with his ex wife because she is the mother of his children and because she is a good person and he will always care about her and that there is no drama they just couldn't make it work.
This bothered me tremendously. They had kids, and made a commitment and they couldn't make it work despite no major drama???? His profile indicated (to me anyway) a man that was not capable of doing real work to keep his commitment. I could understand divorcing so eone that cheated or had substance abuse issues and abandoned you, but his profile revealed to me that this guy can't handle real work.
I guess I would want to know, why did they divorce in the first place? What does commitment mean to him? This might be important because kids get attached easily.
They don't have kids. He does just like her and care about her. He is also very, very attached to his past, and she's a big chunk of some of his favorite parts.
My Guy has been amazing. He helps with the kids, and would help more if I asked more. He comes to a lot of their stuff (karate belt tests and band concerts) which can't be fun for a non-parent. He helps me all the time, and would help me more if I invited him to. He has been patient and helpful and insightful as i try to navigate my new career, which has been unspeakably stressful and challenging. I know he'd rather I do something else, but he's supportive anyway. I appreciate him so much.
This kind of jumped out at me. You've found a man who is loyal, kind and has the ability to deeply attach. He obviously gets great satisfaction out of helping others. He treats you as well as he treats his ex. His heart is big enough to hold everyone he cares about. All of these things are really wonderful character traits.
Although I understand how you feel, I wonder if you would want him to be any different? Would he be happy if you restricted him? Could it damage the R?
I'm struggling with these questions myself. I'm in a R with someone who is very attached to his past emotionally, also very caring and giving and never withholding, and he just mentioned that he wanted to reach out to his latest ex to see how she is doing. It was triggered by the passing of another friend he hadn't seen in a while. I told him it made me uncomfortable. It was a short R and he says they broke it off because they were just not a good fit, so I have nothing to worry about. I told him he is of course free to do what he wants. And I know that it's my insecurity I'm dealing with. Convention also supports me, I'm sure, but should I hide behind that? When I know that it would make him feel better to hear that everything is good with his ex?