Last post from my previous thread:
Maybell, that sounds heavenly. smile What I actually did was work all day, drive my lovely commute home, have dinner with my girls, and attend D13's basketball, all with a smile on my face. Except in the car, I cried in the car.
Maybe this weekend I'll break out the ice cream.
I'm totally struggling not to text him today. I'm rationalizing with things like why can't we just be friends, and I'll put up with the dealbreaker item just to be with him. Sigh.... I have this vision of him going on happily with his life and not missing me at all.
Wonder why that matters to us...I mean, XW has been dating some guy for, I don't know, 6-9 months now. For some reason I just feel she's really at peace with everything, fulfilled in her new life.
There's a whole lot of reasons to think that's not the case. It's what I hope for her in my head. And it doesn't impact me in any way, shape or form. Something about the idea of her being right to leave me though is difficult.
Oh well. Life's hard. At least I'm learning to handle it.
Hang in there Sunny.
Hi Sunny. I think it's normal to feel that way , it's clear you had strong feelings for the man. You made the decision that the deal breaker was just that , so see how you feel about the deal breaker in time.
As for him moving on and being happy , that's possible but my opinion is IF he does it will take time and you could just as easily do the same
Any R that you have invested time and caring is going to be tough to finish. It's if after time and reflection that the reasons against the R vs the reasons for the R are stronger.
I presume the deal breaker is on your side so I would fight the urge to text until you've given yourself time to reflect on how you feel once those initial feelings of loss settle. If you still feel the same after maybe then look for creative solutions. ???
In my previous post I called you strong , I should have added capable , enduring , someone with an inner strength as opposed to a strong , put up with @rap lady
You are very special , you not only deserve a Mr Nica ( without deal dealer ) but you deserve even better. It will happen , the universe looks after the good and maybe Mr Nica was just an appetiser and the main course is still to come ,
Know that you are cared for by many and that includes your internet buddies
Take care and another Big hug , Dessert xx, oops I meant Rd xx
(((Sunny)))
Mr Nica must be a great guy for you to miss him so much. And you would have been a gorgeous and lovely lady to have captured his attention.
He must miss you. Maybe the intensity will lessen but for you to have shared such special times, I don't think it's possible for him not to miss you.
Perhaps this time apart may change some things? Even if it does not, someone like you won't stay alone for too long.
(((Sunny)))
Thank you Zues, RD, Grl. I appreciate the encouragement. I don't know why it's in our nature to assume that a former spouse/bf/gf is happier without us. And now it's time for confession. He's not happy, he's as miserable as I am, and I have first hand knowledge of this. No, I haven't seen him, but we had a very brief text exchange last night. In my defense, he started it. And in a way, it makes it easier to go on, knowing that if he's miserable enough he'll work with me on this to find a way out. If he does, then it was the right decision. If he doesn't, it was the right decision. Sigh......
Well, I haven't always been a nice girl so I am going to pray that he's going to get as miserable as he can.
Thank you Zues, RD, Grl. I appreciate the encouragement. I don't know why it's in our nature to assume that a former spouse/bf/gf is happier without us. And now it's time for confession. He's not happy, he's as miserable as I am, and I have first hand knowledge of this. No, I haven't seen him, but we had a very brief text exchange last night. In my defense, he started it. And in a way, it makes it easier to go on, knowing that if he's miserable enough he'll work with me on this to find a way out. If he does, then it was the right decision. If he doesn't, it was the right decision. Sigh......
I have been exactly where you are, as you know. With the exact same thoughts. ANd you are 100% right. But whichever way it goes, you still had what you had and the outcome in the long run doesn't make it any less special.
Brought over from Grl's thread:
I knew I had to let it go. Too much energy was spent on them. She was a part of my daughters life no matter what. So, I put my big girl panties on, she attended my daughters preschool graduation and we all went out to dinner after, with his family. And I was fine, to my surprise. She was the one who felt weird, actually. We all attend our daughters special events.
I wish to God some days my ex would have done this "right" and left me without an affair so I could really be able to embrace his new wife. I do it now with as much grace as possible, and think of only my daughter when I do.
Ginger, lots of credit to you. I've been struggling with this a great deal lately. I have never met the duck (well, since she became the duck, I had met her before), and she hasn't been introduced to my kids. My D18 was recently in the same place and turned her back on the duck and refused to look at her, much less speak to her.
I have told Mr. P that if he were to meet someone new next week I'd be her new best friend, teach her how to fix his coffee and take a pie to her house at Thanksgiving, but that I would never accept the duck. But I've recently been thinking of backtracking, of asking to be introduced. I don't know. In some ways, this seems easier than holding a grudge the rest of my life. In some ways, this feels like backing down on my morals, saying it was OK for her to have an affair with a man she knew had a clueless wife and three kids, condoning her actions. I'm not sure where to go with this anymore.
SunnyB,
I'm going to have to deal with this, sooner rather than later, too. My stbx's gf is someone he has worked with, mentored, for almost as long as he's known me. She was just out of college, he was already 30 when they started working together. She's been part of his life through our whole relationship. She sent me a congratulatory note when our D was born, but he also kept a clear boundary between me and her.
I will likely have to face her (and see her with my D) many times over the next few decades. I can't hold onto the anger forever. He is icky, their relationship and how it began leaves an awful taste in my mouth... but for my D5's sake, I have to be a grownup about it. The thought of it makes me nauseous and it may be the hardest thing about all of this. But what choice is there? Be bitter and make my D feel uncomfortable? No, I will show her I am just as worthy and strong. My D will never be made to feel bad for -- gasp -- liking the OW.
I don't think you need to ask to be introduced, but you can speak with your actions. If your paths cross (which they will probably do eventually ), you can just act gracious and cordial. You can also make it clear to your kids that they don't have to feel protective of you.
My grandmother held a huge grudge against the woman my grandpa left her for-- my mom always felt so guilty because she always liked his 2nd wife (even more than she liked her own mother). Let's just say it caused my mom some life -long issues she's had to deal with. I won't ever put my daughter through that.
Hugs to you.
Claire, my girls are part of my heartburn. They know what happened. They know he cheated, they know they worked together and she had met our family and deliberately chose to participate in ripping our family apart. I don't want them to think I'm just rolling over on that.
I guess what you are saying is that there is a middle ground that may fall out naturally, somewhere between enemies and friends. And that's fine, if I hadn't already taken so hard of a stand with Mr. P about her. Given what I've already said, there's no way he would know I've softened any at all unless I bring it up.
Sunny,
My situation was a little difference because this woman was in my daughter's life before she was even a year old. And when they moved in together and subsequently got married, I realized my daughter was going to have this woman in her life no matter how much I detested what she did.
I viewed her as a moral less whore. I still struggle with humanizing her. besides the fact I was struggling with some other woman coming into my family when me and my daughter were building our special bond. I did not want my D to go to her wedding because I felt like I was backing down on my morals, and for my D to witness the union, made me ill. She was 3 at the time.
Honestly, I don't know what I would have done if my daughter was in her teens. I've done this strictly to make sure my young daughter doesn't grow up uncomfortable.
It's ok you don't know which way to go with this right now. If your kids aren't concerned about meeting her yet, and you haven't, there is not rush.
When the "grudge" becomes too much of a burden to YOU and is weighing you down too hard, you make your decision then.
It's also something you don't have to worry about until a your kids do meet her an dis invited to an event. I imagine you will go to that event, see her there, be cordial, and go on with life. It doesn't have to be anything more than that. You don't need to bake pies, and braid each others hair. And remember, if the day does come when you meet, it's not you backing down on your morals. it's you doing whats right to keep your inner peace or doing whats best for your kids at the time. It will never have to do with her.
Hi Sunny. just to let you know I'm following this thread but I don't feel my comments will be helpful because I'm not as forgiving as more enlightened people
Take care. Rd xx
Thank you, Ginger. I'll have to swirl this one around a while more.
RD, you are always welcome to express an opinion or leave a comment on my thread.
And just to come clean, I texted My Nica over the weekend. He started it, I responded pretty readily. And then last night I cut my finger badly, texted him, and he called to check on me. We aren't "back together", nothing has changed, really, but I somehow feel comforted that he's there in the background somewhere. Hit me upside the head if you must...
Hi Sunny , the deal breaker , without telling us , can it be figured out ? My thoughts would be try every avenue and then give yourself time I'm sure this is what you did anyway but is it only your issue to resolve or can Mr Nica change things on his side.
Re the OW , personally I wouldn't entertain her in anyway , ever. You don't need to be rude but you also don't need to have anyone in your life you don't need to
I would t give her anymore headspace. Again time can change feelings so let it play out. At the moment Mr Nica and that sitch needs resolving so think on that
Hope the finger being hurt ( not that I'm suggesting you did it on purpose ) was worth the texting with Mr Nica
Take care. Rd xx
Hope the finger being hurt ( not that I'm suggesting you did it on purpose ) was worth the texting with Mr Nica
It was pretty ugly, RD. It wouldn't stop bleeding, I considered going to the ER. I texted him instead. It was worth it.
And I didn't do it on purpose. In retrospect, what I did was stupid, but it wasn't on purpose.
SunnyB,
I get it, I really do. I struggle with what to tell my D5 about why we got divorced if she ever asks... "*We*" decided we couldn't be married anymore doesn't feel true to me. I totally hear what you are saying about wanting to pass on your values to your kids.
But I have a hunch they know where you stand. And I think you can be cordial to someone without teeing their friend.
I got an email from MWD today that discussed how forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. (I would add that it's a gift you give your kids, too.. to show them that we can have the capacity to forgive, even if we don't forget).
We'll get there, I think. I takes time.
Hmm, this is an interesting debate. In my sitch I have no plans to be 'friends' with OW - but me and H don't have kids together. I do keep in touch with my stepson and he's old enough now that I contact him direct and keep his Mum in the loop.
It is different when you have kids I think and important that the kids don't feel bad for getting along with OP. Reading your sitch, I find it incredible that the Duck has been with your H for so long and doesn't actually have links with his kids.....I just don't get that and wonder why you would remain in a R when that's the case?
I think the main question to always ask is - who do I want to be in all of this? What do I want to look back upon and remember about myself?
Hope your finger is all better - no 2x4s from me about Mr Nica - but do act in your own best longer term interests if the deal breaker is truly a deal breaker for you.
Take care xx
I find it incredible that the Duck has been with your H for so long and doesn't actually have links with his kids.....I just don't get that and wonder why you would remain in a R when that's the case?
I think Mr. P was largely acting out of respect for me. Remember we had a written (but not legally binding) separation agreement. We spelled out lots of things, and one of those was that the kids wouldn't be exposed to the duck while we were M. Not in person, not on FB, not in pictures in his apartment, not by phone, etc. He kept to that, and our D has only been final two months. I think he tried to introduce the duck to D18, but she just wouldn't have anything to do with her. Of the three, she would be the most resistant, probably a bad starting point.
Now, why the duck stays is beyond me. But not my problem.
It is a tricky balance. How do you model your beliefs to your children without passing judgment on your WAS?
For me, I did it pretty head on. "Different people have different views on divorce. Some people are of the belief that if the marriage is difficult it can be better to separate so both individuals can find peace and children can be raised without conflict. I don't subscribe to this belief. Personally I am in the camp that marriage is a permanent commitment, that you stay with someone throughout your entire life, through good times and bad, and accept that life doesn't always give you everything you want and instead find ways to be appreciative for what you have, and that divorce and tearing apart a family is a tremendously destructive act and shouldn't be considered unless there is a life threatening situation. So in no way was any of this my choice. However I am not suggesting your mother is a bad person, she simply subscribes to a different set of beliefs about when divorce is appropriate than I do."
As for new partners, XW is now with someone that wasn't the original OM (or OM #2 or OM #s 3-5). She was with him prior to our D being finalized but it's not the man that my kids were asking about, the stranger that's sleeping in mom's room. So none of it is as offputting as that. Even still, he's someone that would associate with a woman before her D was final, and someone that would partner up with a woman that walked out on her marriage. I guess this is pretty normal these days, but not for me. (I promise that I will NEVER partner with a woman that initiated a divorce. If she was divorced her story had better be that her H walked out on her and she DB'd her butt off for years, if 'it was mutual' or 'I had to leave because...' I don't need to hear the rest of it, unless she can show me scars from where she was physically assaulted.) So I don't have any deep admiration for this man. But frankly between the two of them I have less respect for XW, and she's their mom, the one modelling breaking up a family and keeping me from the kids half the time. So if I can live with that I think I can live with some other guy that becomes their second dad.
In the end none of it matters to me. I'll never be chummy with either of them, I'll never have any emotional connection, and indeed I'll be so disconnected the only thing my kids will ever pick up is that I wasn't willing to get close to either of them. No venom, no animosity, no passive aggressive behavior, just a clinical professional business relationship when the need to communicate or share a building existed. DB coach did chide me a bit for not being friendly and chatty when we swapped children, but that simply wasn't a possibility for me, so the kids will have to suffer the harm that does. I'll live with that because it's the best I can do.
But as for you Sunny, what a lot of crap to deal with this week. I'm sorry about your cut. And your loss. And having to endure the presence of a woman that was involved in the destruction of your family.
I think the truth is best Sunny, so saying you don't approve of the way their relationship began or that she'd play a role in the destruction of a family and marriage, and for that reason you don't want her in your life...I think that's ok. You can say something similar that she simply shares different beliefs, that you understand she may become part of your children's life, and that you won't be upset if they get along with her because you understand it's not their choice either, it's just them accepting what life is giving them.
I have no advice about getting over your boyfriend. Lot of suffering in this world, even for super awesome people. It stinks. I guess the only bright side to any of this is you can tell people you were bit by an alligator...
Sunny, sorry to hear about your finger.
Interesting debate. And an issue that I may have to face.
I have decided on my stance that D will never attend xh's wedding to TP. Unless she is old enough to tell me that she wants to. TP knowingly and maliciously broke up my family. Xh will have to leave with that.
I will never be friends with her. She has no part in my life. Her involvement with kid will be curated because kid is a threat to her and her children's standing in the family. When kid is old enough to stand up for herself, she is free to decide.
I will get on with life and not be consumed by my hatred of her.
When you mention the duck, I keep seeing annoying pouty 'duck lips' in my head.
Thanks, Zues. Lots of good stuff to think about.
My finger is not quite bad enough for anyone to believe the alligator story. In fact, it's healing nicely.
But yesterday in Boca Raton some woman was taken to the hospital with a nurse shark still attached to her arm. Maybe I'll use that one.
Grl, I don't really hate the duck. I do feel like she's a bad example for my kids. But then again, so is their dad. And both their grandmothers. If I start excluding people based on affairs, well, I'll probably end up living in a cave somewhere. You and Zues can come over for tea occasionally.
Lol, Sunny. I read about the shark story.
You're such a sweet person; I don't think anyone will ever let you retire to a cave. I, on the other hand, may need to invite you to my cave or my nunnery, some time in the future.
Your children are grown enough to know what's happening. They can see that their mum wins hands down in the class, morals and every other department.
Agree with what Zues said too about not whitewashing the truth.
Not going to weigh in on the exes' current romances. But I do want to say how lovely it is that we're moving forward with post-D lives, and that whatever heartache (real and imagined) we are feeling, it's nice that there's a tinge of sweetness to it, rather than the bitter we all were enduring when we met. There are many things about my life that are better now, but I count my virtual friends here very high on that list.
If I were with a woman I'd want her to stay the heck away from any guys, particularly any she was intimate with historically. I'm not interested in whether she is sad at the inability to preserve a friendship. If she wants a relationship with another guy, then she's not getting one with me.
Zues, we get different things from different people. My friendships with guys are different from friendships with women, and I need it all in my life. If you make a woman exclude all men, it's a lot of pressure on you to be all that. I'm not sure that's a good thing.
Before I was M, I had a lot of guy friends, in fact, maybe most of my friends were men. But to be clear, while I was M, I did not have any friendships with men that consisted of anything more than maybe sitting next to one another and chatting at our kids' soccer game or at a party. I didn't do anything social with just one man (who wasn't Mr. P), ever. But I do love being around guys and they bring something to my life that women just don't.
Is it your belief that what I did was out of bounds for you? Not picking at you, just asking for your perspective.
I think there's a difference between friends and friendly acquaintances.
If I am at a social function, be it work, church, etc, and there are women I get along with, there's no harm in having a conversation. If it's a recurring situation like a lot of time spent with another married couple it would make sense they'd become kind of 'extended family'. And if there were a couple of women at work where we'd talk about work stuff once in a while, or keep tabs on the major changes in each other's life (oh, you're buying a house, where is it, etc), that's fine as well. I might enjoy sharing a cartoon I thought they'd find funny, and I could see enjoying the interactions we had as we made fun of the new rules that corporate rolled out, or whatever. But I wouldn't consider any of these friends with a capital F. If they moved away and I no longer saw them at work or church or whatever, I wouldn't be keeping in touch with them to continue that relationship.
To me a Friend with a capital F is someone who you open up to at a deeper level emotionally. Someone who you don't just tell about the outer part of your life, but that you share your inner self with. Someone that you connect with throughout the week or even daily to support each other through, connect emotionally, discuss personal problems with, call on your drive home, and text message when you think of them at midnight. In my view that's not an appropriate relationship with someone of the opposite gender for someone that is married. Or for me at all.
I have a best friend, we talk a few times a day, and sometimes we just leave each other messages throughout the day. We are like brothers. I have a few other good friends that I connect with weekly, and spend time with here and there. I have a few friends that moved away that I still keep tabs on. But none of them are women.
So to put it this way, I am friendly with a few women, but I am not Friends with any of them.
I'm not preaching what's ok for other people. But this is where the line is for me. And I wouldn't be ok with my wife being tethered for ongoing support and emotional vulnerability with another man. While I understand that some people might be able to do that, I know some marriages survive open relationships as well. That wouldn't work for me either. In the end I think it's a slippery slope and the marriage is too important to play with fire. And after witnessing the vast number of failed marriages and betrayals as I have over the last couple of years, I couldn't imagine tying myself to someone that wasn't equally vigilant.
Hope you're having a good day Sunny!
Someone who you don't just tell about the outer part of your life, but that you share your inner self with. Someone that you connect with throughout the week or even daily to support each other through, connect emotionally, discuss personal problems with, call on your drive home, and text message when you think of them at midnight. In my view that's not an appropriate relationship with someone of the opposite gender for someone that is married.
Agree wholeheartedly. That's for your spouse and it's playing with fire to do it with someone else. Protecting the relationship comes first, exactly what Mr. P didn't do. I asked him once why cheating had to be a part of it, if he was so miserable, why didn't he just leave me without bringing that element into it? His answer was that the sex was just a natural progression of their relationship. Which, as a married man, he had no business being in that type of relationship to begin with.
My H had an (in my mind) inappropriate friendship with a co-worker. It always made me uncomfortable. He dismissed my feelings, became defensive, said i was too sensitive and jealous.
They are now in a serious relationship. He says he didn't cheat on me because they didn't start dating until after he walked out on me. He says that dating her is unrelated to his walking out on our marriage. He also has a great bridge in Brooklyn to sell you if you are interested.
I think the friendship is inappropriate if the spouse feels uncomfortable with it. My stbx has many female friends. I was not threatened by his happily married friends from college that he kept in touch with who were also open and friendly to me. This woman who is now his gf? The one that was almost 10 years younger and single? Who brought him gifts of food? And texted him late at night? Not ok, obviously.
Hey Sunny. I know it's been a tough week. How are you holding up?
Zues, my week was fine. My daughter graduated from high school on Friday, I had house guests from Wednesday to today. It was nice but I'm exhausted.
As for everything else, I have some explaining to do.
That sounds very promising.
Congratulations on your daughter's graduation!!
That sounds very promising.
Congratulations on your daughter's graduation!!
Thanks, MB. I'm very proud of D18, she's turning into a really wonderful young woman. When she was 15, I had my doubts
So, about MyNica...
Let me give a back story first. The week after mr p moved out, I got blood clots in my leg and had to go to the ER. I sat in the waiting room and called mr p because I didn't really know what else to do. He answered my call but didn't come. I sat there and cried alone for hours.
When I cut my hand a couple weeks ago, I texted MyNica. And even though I had broken up with him the week before and even though I had said some pretty harsh things to him earlier that day, he called me immediately, was very concerned, talked me through it, followed up he next day. And then he was ready to back off because that's what he thought I wanted. I asked him not to, and ....here we are. Nothing has changed, and I don't know how long this will last, but for now, he's in my life.
I've been embarrassed to admit that, I feel like a teenager who breaks up and gets back together with her high school boyfriend six times over the course of the year.
Hi Sunny. Nothing to be embarrassed about. We all realise this R thing isn't easy. You are making choices for you and no one lives in your shoes but you
Take care. Rd. xx
Hi Sunny, I agree with RD and you can make whatever choices you want without any embarrassment. I would only want happiness, peace and joy for you going forwards... And you know best what feels right for you.
I think the main thing to remain aware of is whether we are operating from a place of need or want - and also whether we are willing to live with all circumstances of the relationship. You've mentioned potential concerns there, and only you know whether you can accept and work with everything or whether something is ultimately a deal breaker for you.
You certainly seem keen on Mr Nica though and best of luck for you if you and he being together is what you want.
Xx
So to put it this way, I am friendly with a few women, but I am not Friends with any of them.
So, Zues, I've been pondering this and I've wondered where you fall on social media. What if you were standing in line at the post office and struck up
a conversation worth a single woman named Sunny Brook (Galadriel). And then a few days later you got a friend request on FB. Ok or not Ok?
Sunny,
First, about your MR. Nica. Sotto said it the best. As long as you are still ok with current circumstances and aren't expecting them to change all of a sudden. You both really seem to care for eachother and you should do what makes you happy.
As for what you said to Zeus up there, funny enough, ex NG went to the bank as he usually does and they struck up some conversation, became FB friends and started dating. The FB friends thing happened at least while we were trying to decide whether to stay together or not. So, yeah, Zeus' POV.
Oh, and I looked you up on FB. What a vibrant, beautiful woman you are!
Can't edit. It was his bank teller. I didn't mention that.
Hi Sunny. Nothing to be embarrassed about. We all realise this R thing isn't easy. You are making choices for you and no one lives in your shoes but you
Hi Sunny, I agree with RD and you can make whatever choices you want without any embarrassment. I would only want happiness, peace and joy for you going forwards... And you know best what feels right for you.
First, about your MR. Nica. Sotto said it the best. As long as you are still ok with current circumstances and aren't expecting them to change all of a sudden. You both really seem to care for each other and you should do what makes you happy.
Thanks to each of you for your kindness. I'm learning every day to relax and breathe and let things flow. And I'm learning that letting things flow does not mean putting up with things I shouldn't, any more than it means trying to control things. This is such a process for me, I never would have believed I'd travel such a journey.
I would have been shocked if you had really been over. So I'm happy he's patient and persistent, and you knew to lean in that direction.
I'm finding it's REALLY hard to trust. I'm having to learn an utterly new kind of patience. I'm having to let go of a LOT that I thought was true, and that was true about myself, and watch and see how things play out before I make judgments about what's going on. I wonder if that's true for you too?
I would have been shocked if you had really been over. So I'm happy he's patient and persistent, and you knew to lean in that direction.
This makes me smile. I'm happy he's patient and persistent, too.
I don't know how trust fits into my issues. I think from the perspective that I don't trust someone to take care of my heart, yes, I think that's true. I'm afraid that a man will run away from me if I'm not perfect, if I show emotion, if I say things that show my frustration, if heaven forbid I cry. MyNica has seen me do all these things and he's still around and as kind and compassionate and patient as ever. It's hard to believe that's true and that it will last, that' I'm not going to drive someone away because I'm a real woman with real emotions. So if trust fits into that, then, yes.
Isn't that the essence of trust in a relationship? That it's safe to be your true self, warts and all?
Isn't that the essence of trust in a relationship? That it's safe to be your true self, warts and all?
Yes. I've had a narrower definition of trust until now, I've focused more on fidelity, truthfulness, keeping promises. But that's possibly because I haven't been myself in a really long time. It's just amazing to me that I can be myself and someone will still want me.
It's just amazing to me that I can be myself and someone will still want me.
Well, you aren't too bad on the outside or the inside.
Why would you be amazed? I would be amazed if no one wants you.
Thank you Grl, you are always so kind to me.
So to put it this way, I am friendly with a few women, but I am not Friends with any of them.
So, Zues, I've been pondering this and I've wondered where you fall on social media. What if you were standing in line at the post office and struck up
a conversation worth a single woman named Sunny Brook (Galadriel). And then a few days later you got a friend request on FB. Ok or not Ok?
I've been sitting with this for a bit.
I don't think it's quite fair to say 'not ok' absolutely across the board for every couple. But I don't think it's a good idea.
Times it would be ok would be if it was a business face book page, and it was networking. Or if the married couple SHARED a facebook page (which I think would be a great idea) in which case there would be full transparency and the world would know they were talking to both parties at all times.
When it's one on one I don't like it as much. I think that if the spouse is aware of the friendship/connection and ok with it, it isn't kept private, and the relationship is on solid footing, then hey, no problem by me.
But I personally wouldn't like it. Shoot, I'm not on facebook or any type of social media because I personally feel it is a melding pot for this type of thing. It is way, way, way too easy for a person to feel a rush of flattery or giddiness from someone else attention, and it is in such a fantasy setting I just think it's a very dangerous slippery slope. That's why I wouldn't want my partner having opposite sex friends on facebook or frankly even spending a ton of time there. Now, I wouldn't file divorce if she chose to do that. But it might impact the trust and comfort in our relationship. And if it escalated to anything beyond that it is the one boundary I will not tolerate being crossed. And while I wouldn't necessarily terminate a relationship over it, I probably wouldn't ever consider getting close with a woman that didn't share my vigilance towards the marriage being a sacred number one priority that demands daily attention and safeguarding.
Bottom line I wouldn't do it, I wouldn't want my spouse to, but if others are ok with it I won't dictate to them what's ok in their relationship.
I sorta agree with you Zues. And I sorta don't.
FB is a communication tools, one of many. Although social media can be a problem for some, in the same way as too much TV or online gaming is an issue. If it wasn't FB then it could be anything else. Cutting FB doesn't cut addiction or waywardness.
So let's get to the core, lack of trust of self and another. Those who are wayward are going to be wayward, those who are tempted are going to be tempted.
V has never been wayward, even after D is not wayward. I have friends of all types, ages, sexes, orientations. I believe that's healthy. My Besties at the moment are all female, both my male besties have recently died, that is a great loss to me.
Having friends only of the same sex is a problem I think. This puts pressure on your partner and it's excessive. If your only understanding of women is your partner and you have no other female go to then it might be too much.
My thinking is that limits the understanding of your partner. A man who has no female friends would be a big red flag for me. That's xWH, in his case lack of value of femails means he only sees them as sexual material or feels he can't trust himself or me.
If my partner had that attitude it would limit my life and I think a real problem.
Zues to open up your life to learn about women as friends will assist your personal growth and means your R with a partner does not have so much pressure. If you hold this for yourself and are dogmatic about keeping these rules for your partner that could be restraint on your R. I would not want to be restricted in my friendship with anyone.
I trust V, and I want to trust new partners. That's something I struggle with- trust. I am finding this tough. My view has always been to trust first until someone is trustworthy, I trusted too easily.
I do not want wayward in my life, in another partner or in a male or female friend. We do not always get what we want. One thing I know is that I am not wayward at all, my friends are friends. I have no intention of crossing that boundary when I am in an R.
Having said that my new Rs always start with friendship, these are romantic friendships when I am free to have them with those who are free to be with me.
Those are my views.
V
Interesting viewpoint, Zues, and pretty much what I expected you to say. But my view leans more towards V, that if secrecy and deceit are your M/O, then FB is only a tool. Although I don't spend a lot of time on FB at all, I do have male friends both single and M. There has never been anything remotely inappropriate going on with any of them. Because I wouldn't. And apparently they wouldn't either, no one has ever propositioned me on FB lol. Anyway, Zues, thanks for sharing your viewpoint, I always enjoy our conversations.
Hi Sunny. I'm a bit torn on this one but here's my take Men and women can be friends and good freinds BUT I feel it can be difficult to sustain that long term if people are single
Here's my thinking and I don't claim to be that intelligent
When we M , we have a partner that most of us trust , care deeply for and expect the R to be a two way street. If a partner is tempted or drawn to someone else , the hope would be that the bond created by the M would be strong enough to keep the attraction to someone else a simple thought that would be dismissed as soon as it arose
When single , people have no emtional ties elsewhere and a bond can develop uninterrupted and an R can flourish It might not even be a great love but situations develop and a friend ( opposite sex ) can be there and feelings can grow leading to more
In a lot of our Rs on here , the WAS didn't go to nightclubs or online dating looking for someone new , more that circumstances put someone in that position and the M wasn't strong enough to stop them. I'm generalising here and I do appreciate that but even in my own sitch WW wasn't the type to even get too friendly with men because she always felt it gave off the wrong signals to the men
I on the other hand flirt a lot but I always attempt to make the flirting so outrageous that no offence can be taken and to that end would never flirt in a situation where it might be mis understood.
When I was younger I had a friend who's sister was a model , my friend ( also. very good looking ) and his sister were adopted into a family of 3 other kids and while they weren't abused they were treated as second class citizens throughout their childhood and both had issues due to it
Steph ( the sister ) had been dating a good few of my friends over the years and she and I became very close. After one R with a close friend of mine ended Steph needed somewhere to stay and she moved in with me for a few weeks I considered her to be like a sister but after a few weeks I felt the dynamic change and so did she. One evening she acted on it and I stopped it going any further because I felt I was stepping over a line that we couldn't come back from We remained friends but never the same and loss touch after about a year
I suppose my point is friendships between men and women always have potential for more where friendship between same sex might not
Again , just my simplistic view and I recently struck up an online friendship with a very attractive blonde lady that's already getting a bit hot and heavy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(((. Hope your smiling ))))
Take care. Rd
Im having a relaxing morning sitting on my front deck drinking coffee and looking at the mountain. And pondering. So one more question, Zues. In my post office scenario, both parties were single. Is it still not ok? Because maybe one of them might get into a relationship some day and then you'd have to end it? I get your point about each half of a married couple being vigilant against inappropriate relationships with the opposite sex. Couldn't agree more, wish mr p had held that view. But what if you are single? Not every friendship has to lead to romance. Some do, most don't. I hang out with single guys all the time, they are an important part of my friend group. Is that still a bad thing in your viewpoint, Zues?
RD, I think we cross posted, didn't see yours until I had already posted mine. Let me ponder a little more, have some more coffee, put a chopstick in this mass of blonde hair, it's getting hot outside. And you always make me laugh.
Clearly there are a lot of different views here, and that's ok. I'm not debating to win or be right, but I'll respond since I'm being asked.
In my case having no female friends doesn't mean I see females as sexual objects only. It means that I only have room in my life for one woman. That is all. I have no desire to be close or connected with any other women outside of the one I am committed to.
To me being single doesn't change much. I guess I look at deep emotional connections with opposite gender as off limits in a marriage, the same as sexual activity. So asking if it's ok for a single person to have a bunch of opposite gender friends, hey, it's up to them. No one is betraying any trust. But to me that would be the same if a single person wanted to sleep around a lot for a few years. They aren't betraying any trust, it's just not what I would choose to do. The same way I tried to save myself for my woman physically, I do the same emotionally. Other people can do what they want, just not for me.
Would that be a 'deal breaker' in a relationship? This is such a hard question because it's hard for me to picture another relationship with a woman at all. It probably wouldn't be a deal breaker initially because I wouldn't leave a woman for spending time with another guy. But I would not feel safe and I don't know that I could be emotionally intimate anymore, and I could see that putting the marriage in a bad spot, one that my partner would probably leave at some point, at which point my concerns about the opposite gender would appear justified. But if a woman chose other men over me I would be happy to wish her well.
Again, we're talking about friends, not friendly. If there are men in a group of people she's out with, fine. But if she's spending 1:1 time with another man on a recurring basis, that would be an issue.
As for the bit about temptation being everywhere, so staying off FB being pointless, I don't agree with that. I think there are things you can do to safeguard your marriage, and there are things you can do that give opportunity for temptation to arise. Clearly you can't take a cheater and just restrict their internet access and get them to toe the line, and I can appreciate the fact that some people will never cheat no matter what, as I am in that category. But despite my conviction, I wouldn't want to go have a beer in an attractive woman's hotel room when she had shown interest in me...being faithful is one thing, but I wouldn't want to put myself in that spot at all. That's how I see private facebook message exchanges with opposite gender friends.
Maybe this all sounds extreme when I write it, but it seems to me common sense, and I know I'm not unique in this regard. My best friend is the same way. It is nothing we've ever talked about, it's just clear. He is a married man, his friends are guys, his wife is his woman. It doesn't seem restrictive at all. In fact, I think this is pretty common among my friends that are married.
I want to be clear I'm not judging anyone that has opposite gender "F"riends. There are a lot of ways to live. For me, I have only a very, very few select group of friends. 1 best friend. And 5-10 friends I remain pretty close with and keep in touch over the years. I think I'm pretty sensitive, and while I'm clearly not a closed person, I don't open my heart up to people unless I feel safe, and can tell they are sensitive as well so I can trust them to handle me as gently as I try to handle those around me.
It's very possible I'm too sensitive, and that I have closed myself off to the entire world. But I like who I am, I have some people that get me and appreciate me, and right or wrong it is the path I seem to be drawn to.
Zues, agree that it's fine for us to all have different perspectives, that's what makes it an interesting conversation. So, if you as a single man, won't have a friendship with a single woman, whether online or in person, what if you miss the woman who gets and appreciates you?
Zues, I have possibly not picked up on the finer points of your "friends" v "Friends". I wholeheartedly agree there can be inappropriate emotional relationships between a man and a woman. But I'm missing something here.
I, a single woman, go out with groups of friends that include single men. Seems ok by you. I, a single woman, sometimes text those friends in a conversational tone. I do not share my innermost secrets with any of them. Ok or not ok by Zues rules? I get fuzzy here. Not ok because of the risk it might turn emotional? And if that's true, why not, we are both single. Doesn't mean either one of us sleeps around, it's a text. This is where I don't quite understand the inappropriateness. Can you explain?
Hey Sunny. Hope the weather is beautiful on your porch and the coffee is rich.
It's all on a spectrum. You say 'it's a text', and that is true. A text is just a text. Multiple texts daily throughout the day and night, or texts joking that are a little too personal are another.
Where's the line? That seems to be the question you are asking.
For me, I don't want to know where the line is. I have no desire to find out what the line is, because I'd prefer to be nowhere close to it.
It's like my self-test for alcoholism, or other addictions. How do you know when you have a problem? My answer has always been "when you have to ask yourself". I drink 1-3 beers 2-4 times annually, and then it's spaced out over time. There is no doubt in my mind I'm not an alcoholic. If I drank 1-2 beers a night 5-6 days a week, and liked to get loose every weekend, but didn't black out, or have 'consequences', maybe I'm across the line, maybe not, but in my mind once I start having to wonder I've gone too far.
So my answer would be if your relationships with your male acquaintances are laid back, friendly, and they are so far from anything serious, emotional, or personal that the idea seems absurd...great, no issues. If you shoot someone a text to see if they're bringing something to a get together, or you send them a funny picture that reminds you of a conversation you had at the last social event you saw them at, fine, no worries. If you have an ongoing conversation with them (like the one we're having on this forum) and you're sharing that conversation with your spouse, I don't see the harm. This is about as far as I think it should go so it doesn't come anywhere near the line.
As for what you do when you're single, I don't have strong opinions, but for me I would personally stay away from that line and only get closer if I thought we were both exploring relationship opportunity.
It's also possible that I'm a bit burned.
I've had two serious relationships. Both ended with my partner cheating on me with a guy friend. I think that could skew me.
Also, neither relationship was very good. It's hard to imagine a good relationship, where I felt I was a priority to my partner. If the relationship was strong I think I'd feel much more at ease in general.
I guess what I'm really balking at is the idea that any of us should close ourselves off for the sake of what might happen. I have some guy friends that I can have wonderful intellectual conversations with, and it's always going to end there. I have MyNica who is probably going to break my heart and I wouldn't trade it away, he's made my life so much richer. And I wouldn't want to miss out on the next love of my life because I had rules in place that prevented me from doing so.
Thanks for being patient with me Zues, I always appreciate your opinion and your perspective.
Sounds good SB. You have my permission to put yourself out there and bring joy to some lucky guy's world. Enjoy your weekend!
RD
I have found with my male contacts that there are friends who will always be friends. Even if on a dessert island friends.
These are gay male friends, older and younger men in my life, work colleagues, husband's brothers cousins, bor friends and ex of my friends, men with facial hair, men with fat tums, clients, husband's of.......
I keep my boobs in my pants (if that was anatomically possible!).
There is this assumption that somehow men or women are untrustworthy. I agree waywards like my XWH are untrustworthy and that's not the majority of us.
Otherwise we gals would leap on men at random.
I would have to say in my long life there have been offers, but really? Why would one destroy an M for a tryst?
Not worth it.
My male friends are very important to me, irreplaceable. My female friends are important to me too.
And there is no potential R when friendship is important.
Besides most men aren't Liam Niesen.
V
Hi Claire, are you in a better place?
I hope so. Life is so full of good things. Don't let others steal your power or your happiness.
Bug
Bug! I'm not Claire, I'm rppfl. And I'm so happy to hear from you, I've missed you and wondered how you are doing. I'm doing well, my D was final in March, my kids are thriving, and I'm happy. You played such a big role in showing me things were going to be ok, I'll always be grateful to you. How are things in your life?
OK, my friends, I've kind of been avoiding this, but time for an update. In the on-again, off-again saga of MyNica, it's permanently off. But we are attempting the "let's remain friends" route, because neither of us is strong enough to withstand NC. So, we text regularly, we keep it light and friendly, and that's that. We both know it might get awkward when we start to date others, but are willing to try this and see how the journey develops. I'm sad, yes, but I'm not the awful crying mess I was the first time we broke up.
Other than that, life is good. My older kids have been away on vacay with their dad, they all return today. D18 moves up to college over the weekend to start her summer session. It will be very different not having her around the house, she never spend the night with mr p, she was always at home. So now there will be times when I"m completely alone in the house, when D13 is at mr p's. Not sure what I'll do with myself......
Sunny,
Gosh, I totally understand about the emptying nest. It's weird, for sure. I just got my D22 moved to Massachusetts last week. Seeing her empty bedroom is still unsettling. I'd really be inclined to sniffle around, but she was the one who oddly had the surprising melt down and I've had to be strong and positive for her.
And I know you know this already, but once they go to college, the dynamic changes anyway. I think it's as good for us as it is for them. I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to spend my time too... the possibilities are exciting, and all I need to do is jump in the pool. There was a time in my life where I jumped in pools all the time. It's weird to look at myself and wonder where that adventurous soul really went? Maybe there's a component of self preservation that we really get after we become parents? I honestly don't know. It's not like I'm afraid, but there's hesitation for sure.
Maybe this is a great time to amp up the self care? I find that I have become lax in that department, and I can tell when I'm needing to get back to center.
Anyway, I wish you well and an awesome weekend!
Betsey
Hi Sunny. Sorry to hear about Mr Nica, I'm sure you are doing what's best for you and the future is never certain so staying friends might be good in the long run and certainly can't do any harm.
Must be tough to have the kids heading off to college but they need to get a good education and in turn good jobs to look after their mother in the twilight years
Take care. Rd
Hi Sunny, thanks for dropping in to say Hi on my thread
Sorry to hear that things are off with Mr Nica. That, plus changes at home can't be easy - and the combination of both probably means that some GAL is a good idea. I hope you have some nice summer plans coming up, or can get busy making some if not. The company of family and friends and new activities always helps I find.
Hope you're having a good weekend & do take care.
Xx
Hi Sunny,
Sorry to hear about you and Mr Nica. Who knows maybe after dating other people, Mr N8ca may decide that Sunny is the still the one for him?
I never cease to be amazed at how gracious you are in your R.
Betsey, always good to hear from you. My self-care in terms of exercise could use an upgrade, I've definitely slacked off since I started this job back in November. This is probably a great time to figure that out and take it back up a notch.
Thanks, RD, I'm planning on that third kid taking care of me in my old age. Exactly why I had her.
Sotto, I'm still pretty solid in the GAL department, I have a really great group of friends. Last night I went to a concert with a girlfriend, and there's a group of people trying to talk me into going to SuperCon next weekend. Not sure I'm up for that. LOL
Hi Grl, thanks for stopping by. I don't see anything changing about MyNica's situation in the next few years, but you never know. Miracles occur sometimes. I'll hope for one but not hold my breath. And thank you for calling me gracious, I don't know that's true, but I do attempt it.
I continue to exchange texts with MyNica almost daily, and we've talked on the phone once. But I'm also learning to find other sources of emotional support, leaning on other friends when I feel like texting him. I went out with a new guy the other day, and a guy (friend of a friend) that I've known since December has suddenly started texting me out of the blue. So there's that. I'm in no hurry to get into a relationship again, these opportunities are just presenting themselves and I"m willing to look at them.
Hi Sunny thanks so much for checking in on me on my thread, it's so kind of you and I really appreciate it.
Empty nest syndrome I can totally relate to. While it's great the kids are spending time with their Dad it sometimes feels a bit silly - can we not just all have dinner together once in a while?
Have any of your kids met the duck? There's only one family member not met my H's OW. The thing I don't like was when she was in the car when the kids got dropped off. I feel it's an invasion of my privacy. These are my kids, my house, my husband for goodness sake (for now) go and find your own life! I don't like that she's part of their lives but haven't asked any questions about her.
I'm sorry things are a bit rocky with your Nica, hope you can remain friends and then who knows what might happen.
Xx
Dropping in to say hey... thinking of you!
Hi Maybell! Thanks for dropping by!
can we not just all have dinner together once in a while?
Stacey, I thought this for the longest time. I totally didn't get why we couldn't be friends and all hang out together sometimes. The answer seems to be: because he doesn't want to. The end.
Have any of your kids met the duck?
I don't think so. I know the youngest hasn't. My 18yo was at a fundraiser walk with her and apparently standing a few feet away but turned her back on the duck and wouldn't even look at her. I'm not sure about my son, it's possible, but he wouldn't tell me anyway. Rumor has it the duck may be on her way out, but they've had an off-again, on-again relationship all along. So I'm not holding my breath. It would be so much easier if he'd get a new girlfriend......
Time for an update.
I continue to exchange texts with MyNica almost daily, and we've talked on the phone once.
This blew itself up in kind of a big way this weekend. We had slipped back into something entirely too comfortable to be called a friendship, we were both doing it. Actually, he started it, I fell for it once again, that's a pattern here. But then there was no stopping point, and then it exploded. So we are back to NC. I guess it starts tomorrow, its kind of too late for today. LOL
Other than that, my weekend was very laid back, I spent much of it by myself, although I went out with friends on Saturday night and my daughter was home yesterday.
Not much of an update, really, there just gets to be a point where there isn't anything to say. But I continue to read and think of you all.
Sorry Sunny. I honestly have no idea how to take someone doen from a lover level to a friend level without cutting off contact. I know how hard it is to go cold turkey. As you might read, I stink at all letting go of anything.
However, after cutting off contact with someone where we tried the friends with benefits thing on and for years, well, it's a year later, he is a R, and I feel we could be just friends now. We have had a little convo and I can honestly say I can do it with no other feelings but friendship now.
We are here if you need some pep talking through the no contact thing. I know it's rough
Hi Sunny. It's not easy to end any R and all you can do is be strong in your choices
Take care. Rd xx
Hang in Sunny. Hang in. Thanks for posting on my thread and your patience and support.
Sorry Sunny. I honestly have no idea how to take someone doen from a lover level to a friend level without cutting off contact.
Ginger, I sincerely thought we could do this. For the first couple of days it was OK. But then he continued to call me a particular name that I love, sent me the same kind of message early every morning, was even more attentive and a little flirtier than usual. And I fell back into it willingly. But what I realized on Sunday was that everything was the same as always but that I couldn't see him. And I just can't deal with that. So we exploded. And then exploded again yesterday because of something I did. But we got it all settled down by the end of the day, and I'm prepared for NC for the next couple of weeks at least. Today is Day 1. So far, I hate every minute of it.
Thanks Zues and RD for the support, I feel like I've whined over this man a lot lately and I appreciate everyone's patience with me.
Day 1 of NC is over, trudging along with Day 2. I have no sense of accomplishment or pride in this. I wonder why I'm doing it.
Thank you to everyone on whom I leaned so heavily yesterday, you know who you are. xoxo
You know why you're doing this.
(((((Sunny))))))
You know why you're doing this.
Yes I do. Because texting him won't fix the issue. Sigh.....
Thanks to you both for posting.
Just a little journaling today...
I had a really great weekend with some new friends, and although I'm lacking sleep due to flight timing, I'm feeling refreshed. We talked about so many things, about our M, about dating, about the futures we want. Everyone was accepting, empathetic, really beautiful people.
MyNica and I have settled into texting every few days. It's friendly but not intimate, friends who care for each other. This is something that I can live with. We may eventually drop off into NC, but if that's the natural progression, I'm ok with that. It was the harshness of sudden NC that I was struggling with.
I met a guy last week that has called and texted every day since. We already have weekend plans. Life moves forward.
Good thing there's lots of smart guys where you live. They recognize a catch when they see one. Not hard to see why they are all chasing after you!
I am glad you have found a solution to an acceptable contact level with someone you cared so deeply for.
Hugs
J.
Agree with jjb that there are lots of smart guys around you. They know a good catch when they see one!
Hi everyone, it's been a rollercoaster of a week, but nothing worth sharing here. All my kids are away right now, and I'm also battling a cold, so feeling a little lonely and a little sick contributed to some emotional rides this week. My weekend plans with new guy didn't work out, but I met some girlfriends for drinks on Thursday and had dinner with a different girlfriend on Saturday. I also had dinner with a friend last night, a lovely evening.
Thank you Juju and Grl for posting, I appreciate the support!
A quick update in hopes of keeping my thread from sinking into oblivion. The past week has been fine, my D13 is still in TX with Mr P and the in-laws. I've been filling my time with friends, a couple of happy hours, a turtle walk on Saturday night that was a great experience. My life is stable and there's nothing wrong with that.
Nothing new in the dating world. I've seen MyNica a couple of times, we text, we talk, we're friends. And I'm open to something new with someone else, it just hasn't worked out yet. I choose to believe it will when the time is right.
Sometimes if it isn't working for us, we need to chuck it all up in the air and have a re-think..and that's fine - it's your life & you get to choose how you spend it
I agree with Sotto. Yes, RD, I'm talking to you.
I've been filling my time with friends, a couple of happy hours, a turtle walk on Saturday night that was a great experience.
The personal attacks have to stop. The fact I haven't been on a turtle walk gives you no right to imply I am a failure as a father and a man...
Thanks for posting Sunny, and for keeping an eye on me in your spare time. Sounds like you're doing amazing. How's the job going for you?
Hi Sunny,
Thanks for your support on my thread!
I keep this mental image of you (a pretty accurate one
) and whenever I feel like exploding, being snarky or being bitter, I think to myself, What would Sunny do? I am not so good at the snarky part though. I guess, maybe I can just allow myself one indulgence.
Eventually I will grow up to be like you.
Sounds like you're doing amazing. How's the job going for you?
Meh.....the job is fine, it's not the most challenging thing I've ever done, but it's fine. I'm good at it, I'm not putting in a ton of overtime, my evenings and weekends remain largely my own. And I get a regular paycheck.
Something to be said for that. I don't feel up to taking on anything more demanding at the moment, and financially, I don't have to.
If you'd like to do a turtle walk, come on down, it was a really interesting experience. We saw a mother green turtle laying her eggs on the beach and saw hatchlings emerge from two loggerhead nests. The babies were so cute flapping around on the sand! Lol The little suckers can't tell the difference between the moonlight on the water and the streetlights and so they have to be redirected sometimes. The only trick to the turtle walk is that you have to find the alligator first.
I really am doing fine. I work, I go out with friends, I date. My life is stable, and there's a lot to be said for that. It's much easier to add a little spice to a stable life than to create stability from chaos.
I keep this mental image of you (a pretty accurate one
) and whenever I feel like exploding, being snarky or being bitter, I think to myself, What would Sunny do?
Grl, this is flattering, but you sell yourself short. I have this mental image of YOU, and it's of a beautiful self sufficient woman making her way in the world and raising a really great kid. Sunny cannot rock gold leggings, just sayin'.
Good morning! I'm just here for my Monday morning update, and as usual, don't have a lot to say.
I saw MyNica twice last week, but that was only possibly by a funny quirk of schedules. In fact, I doubt I'll see him for quite a while, although we do text frequently. I realize that at some point I'll need to let go of him emotionally. At the moment, I'm OK with this status. If we can't be together, this is the next best thing.
I met up with friends a couple of times, had a date Friday night. I've texted with him over the weekend, but we haven't made plans to see each other again. I'm OK with that either way. Overall, I'm just trying to keep busy, be patient, and believe that good things will come my way when it's time.
Your updates sound good, Sunny!
Your updates sound good, Sunny!
Thanks, Grl. I trudge along. There are still ups and downs. I dropped my older two kids and Mr. P at the airport yesterday, so I'm alone again for another week. I went out with a guy for drinks last night, he was nice enough, but seems to still be a little unsettled after his divorce two years ago. The weekend is coming up, I don't have any particular plans but know I can fill it with friends if I want. I'm feeling a little like I'm off track, just wandering. I know that when my D13 gets back and school starts again, that feeling will go away, she'll be my purpose, but right now it's a little odd. I need to think about some things this week, need to made some decisions about what to let go of, what to focus on, how to create the life I want instead of just letting life happen. It's a process.
Wandering is not always a bad thing. It's more like discovering. It can feel a bit unsettling, but uncomfortable is what we need sometimes.
Letting life happen is good. With a goal in mind. it definitely is a process.
Wandering is not always a bad thing. It's more like discovering. It can feel a bit unsettling, but uncomfortable is what we need sometimes.
Letting life happen is good. With a goal in mind. it definitely is a process.
Thank you, Ginger. Truth is, I'm just down about a few things today. This vacation that I'm not on, a friend has suddenly backed off with no explanation, no guy I've gone out with is even coming close to what I had with MyNica. It's all disappointing today. I feel like I need to regroup and reevaluate. Or maybe just wander a little longer.
I don't know, wandering is foreign to me, you are right about it being uncomfortable. Not sure where to go from here.
Hi Sunny, sorry you're having a low day. It's disappointing to be let down by someone for sure....and know that you will likely feel more upbeat in a day or two.
A couple of thoughts from me, if these are helpful...
Firstly, sometimes it is good just to self-care until we feel a little stronger and not worry about where we are going.
Secondly (and the opposite really!) I have found it helpful to have a pretty little notebook with some goals in. I'm a bit of a lazy goal setter and would find it hard to sit and make a list. But my notebook is much more organic. When I think of a goal, I give it a new page. When I think of a step towards that goal, I add it underneath on the page and I note down steps I have taken. Sometimes if I feel a little lacking in focus, I get out my notebook and flick through the 15 or so goals I have in there - jotting down next steps, and ticking off too...
It seems to work for me....goal setting in a lazy and sporadic way - but there to revisit whenever I want to...
Anyway, know that things will look up soon and take care in the meantime - do reach out to friends for company too if you feel like it.
(((Sunny))) xx
(((Sunny))) You have always been strong and gracious. I suppose this pondering and regrouping part is part of our journey and I have no doubt you'll get to where younwant to be.
Awe, sunny, I'm sorry you were feeling down.i understand exactly what you are saying. You'll figure it out, and things will happen on their own time and I a, sure they will be sweeter than ever
Hey Sunny!
It's all disappointing today. I feel like I need to regroup and reevaluate. Or maybe just wander a little longer. wink I don't know, wandering is foreign to me, you are right about it being uncomfortable. Not sure where to go from here.
Oh, yeah. So here's something I don't know if I mentioned to you awhile back. The first few years on this BB, I had (and still have) a circle of really awesome, kick ass women friends. We held each other accountable for transforming ourselves. We don't have to do that anymore... we just cheer each other on. But way back when, one of them coined this situation as "time to sit on the discomfort sofa". You know... the one that is lumpy, has no support and is just generally uncomfortable but you're stuck there because you don't have anywhere else to go?
The discomfort sofa is meant to be uncomfortable. Time to go inside and figure things out. It's a time out to evaluate and plan. And the moment you have one, you'll jump off that couch and things won't seem so desolate again. I can promise you that I've learned to embrace that damned sofa. It's my friend. But it's really not fun, and I don't relish finding myself needing it. You'd think at the age of 54 I'd not need it anymore, but that is less than truthful. I spent some time on it June and July this year. I'm sure a great deal of it was because my D22 had moved to MA and all of a sudden, it became clear that I needed a real plan. Not a filler plan or someone else's plan. MY plan.
So don't wander. Sit your ass on that sofa and figure it out. Don't get up and wander until you have a plan. Even if it's a daily plan. You can always come back to the lumpy sofa.
Hugs!
Betsey
Bets,
The famous discomfort sofa? Oh yeah....that!
Sunny,
What is the discomfort sofa telling you? What types of buried pain are inside your body? What are they trying to communicate to you? If you sit still on the discomfort chair without fidgeting, the revealed answers just may surprise you.
The most important thing is to be real gentle with yourself as you sit on the sofa. Try to suspend judgments or any types of assumptions.
That is if you're ready for the inward journey into Sunny. It is not for everyone and that's okay.
But way back when, one of them coined this situation as "time to sit on the discomfort sofa". You know... the one that is lumpy, has no support and is just generally uncomfortable but you're stuck there because you don't have anywhere else to go?
So don't wander. Sit your ass on that sofa and figure it out. Don't get up and wander until you have a plan. Even if it's a daily plan. You can always come back to the lumpy sofa
What is the discomfort sofa telling you? What types of buried pain are inside your body? What are they trying to communicate to you? If you sit still on the discomfort chair without fidgeting, the revealed answers just may surprise you.
Betsey and Wonka, thanks for the introduction to the discomfort sofa. I love the mental image.
It's really no surprise that I don't know what I"m doing, considering how much my life has changed in two years. I was so immersed in my family, in my husband, in my children, in my church/job/school. Most of that has been stripped away and I just don't know what to do with myself. I feel stable, I do have a job, although not a terribly exciting one, I do have one child at home who needs me, I do have friends and a social life, but yet..... I really don't know what's missing here. I'd love to be able to hear some sort of answer, to figure this out, to be excited about something again. I'm not sure how to do that. Wonka, is there any process you have found helpful?
I've given some thought as to what I want out of life and made some long-term goals of sorts. I've broken those things down into more manageable pieces and thought of some specific actions I can take. This week I've made a daily list of things to accomplish, boxes to be checked off. I don't know that I"ll be happy ticking little boxes forever, but the way I tied them into something larger gives me a sense of purpose to some extent. That helps.
There are two other things going on that may or may not be affecting my outlook. One is that I'm still unhappy without MyNica, enough said about that. The other is that a friend I have known a couple of years but grown quite close to in the past few months just dropped me out of the blue. I asked him to explain what was going on, told him I was hurt. He didn't explain, didn't acknowledge my hurt, certainly didn't apologize, just cut off all contact. Why do people handle it that way, what's so hard about an honest conversation? How could someone who knows how hard BD was just do essentially the same thing? It makes me spin, and makes me wonder how many more times in my life someone is going to pull that on me.
My kids all come back tomorrow night, the older two will leave back to college on Friday. D13 starts school Monday so the weekend will be busy getting her prepared for that. I have an outing with friends planned on Saturday. All good, all normal. But I'll take some time out to sit on the couch.
Sunny,
I don't think I've been following along but I immensely enjoyed your thread. Not that I have much to contribute, although I can relate to that feeling of something not knowing what to do. As of late when that has happened, I just turn up the music and dance with my peeps.
I know some of this is a older chat, but in regards to the OW,I try to take that ever challenging high road. I do maintain the road can be dark, filled with potholes, and have few cars. However, it really is the only road. That doesn't mean I don't have my moments though:)X Mr. GB's gf just graduated from college so it *IS* odd to think when we got married she was in grade school. And ya know what? I think the universe gives us these events for difficult to explain reasons.
I'm sorry things didn't work out with your guy. Once you click with someone, it can be challenging to find someone that you have that same feeling for. Not sure what the dealbreaker was, however just remember that because things didn't work out doesn't mean it wasn't meaningful or presented for a reason.
You have received such fantastic input from so many fabulous posters with much more valuable insight than I have. I did want to chime in on the friendship thing. While I certainly respect Zues's position, I'm in a whole other camp (hopefully with lots of bug spray. I lived in FL for a bit so I know it is necessary). Most of my friends are male. Some are married. Some are in Rs. Overall, I would say they are a group many women gravitate to in general. Some have strayed. Not my place to judge. However, I have never, ever been interested in them in that way. Many were a fantastic support system during my D and sense then. I consider myself lucky to have a network to consult males for opinions. Again, exactly 0 has happened between me an said friends. Do some people cross lines? Sure. But realistically, they were probably going to cross a line of some sort whether they had female/male friends regardless. I mean, folks hook up all the time in a variety of ways. That's on them
Anyway, I think if you decide to be introduced to the duck, then that is perfectly awesome. Do what you think is best because grudgeholding only creates wrinkles IMVHO. You aren't advocating that an affair was correct-you are saying "it is what it is" and I need to move forward. You can't change them or what happened. However, you can change how you continue to move on.
Hang in there:)
Sunny,
Please forgive the litany of typos and grammatical errors. Just red pen me:)
Georgiabelle, I always brighten up when I see a post from you. When I came here blindsided and lost two years ago, you told me I would be OK. That was such an important message. Because I am.
Thank you for your current wisdom. I'm unclear whether the duck is still a player or not, I've heard conflicting stories. I never ask him, but I might at some point. It would be great to have her go away, and I've already said I'll make an effort to get along with someone new.
One of the perks of dating has been that I've picked up a couple of new guy friends along the way. All through college and my young working life, up until my son was born, probably over half my friends were guys, and I've really missed that over the years. So this has been nice.
It's never going to work out with MyNica and I've accepted that. I've even accepted that the relationship we actually had, when we had one, was not the one I ultimately want, I was banking on a future we didn't get to. But what we did have taught me so much about what I'm looking for in a man, how wonderful it is to be treated nicely, what it's like for someone to listen to and validate me. And we had chemistry in spades. If there's a lesson here, I guess it's to show me that it's possible, but it seems like it's a cruel joke of the universe to show me it's possible and then take it away.
That doesn't mean I"m sitting at home, though, I'm ever the optimist. I've dated some lately, although I find myself turning down guys for some petty reasons. I don't mean to be picky, it's just my mood right now. I assume I"ll settle down sooner or later and be open when the right guy comes along.
Anyway, GB, thanks for stopping by, you've given me some things to think about, and that's why I post here!
Sunny...sorry you are still feeling a little sad about MyNica. But just think...if it felt that wonderful being with the wrong one, how much better is it going to be when you find the right one for you?
Anna - That's an awesome comment!
GB - You are just so damn eloquent. And BTW, I'm in your camp. I have so many male friends. My life would be utterly lost without them. My entire career I've been in male dominated work environments, and I'm just used to them. They make me appreciate my female friends all the more.
Sunny - I still haven't been introduced to Mr. W's GF. Seriously. And she wasn't in the picture when we split up. I don't know why, though he *did* invite me to drive up to Montana for his dad's celebration of life in July. Like I'd seriously sit in the back seat of his truck while she's in MY spot? Yeah, right. But I recognize that in his odd way, he's ready for that to happen. People are weird.
You don't have to get all the answers while you sit in discomfort. I still don't have them. But instead of pretending they don't exist while I check things off my list (yes, I'm the EXACT same way), I pick at the scab periodically to remind myself that the busy work is not meant to distract me from identifying what lurks beneath.
I'll always have my D19 with me, so I can't use the empty nest excuse. She'll always need me. Which means I have to switch to a mind set that I'm already an empty nester. (That sounds insane.) I'm sure someone IRL would tell us to just get over it. I can't. I can't pretend that I'm not affected by my daughter living in another state. I'm happy for her, and we talk all the time. But I really miss her. I miss having her live at home. I miss having her friends afoot, foraging through my refrigerator and eating all my food. I miss their messes and crumbs on the floor. I miss her slovenly bedroom. I miss everything about the life that I had 6 years ago. I managed to mosey through college, because that was temporary. Although deep down inside I knew it was realistic that she'd live out of Colorado, I held out hope that I'd still have her close enough to work out with her or go on walks, or to take a cooking class together or go to the theater.
Sure I do those things. But I miss HER. I'm not exactly sure what my life will look like at 64. That's probably a good thing, right? But the good news is that I can take baby steps to create a life that makes sense for me 10 years down the road. I hear my dad's voice saying, "You don't eat an elephant in one sitting. You eat it one bite at a time." It's so true.
I also can't pretend that my life is drastically different without those I love who passed away not in it. I find myself tearing up on and off ALL.THE.TIME. I talk to them as though they were here, and I imagine their responses. Which makes me miss them all the more.
That also applies to figuring out what you need as your life changes. I think only one of my friends has it figured out. I think the reason she got there faster is because her D22 is an only child, and went to the AF Academy. She knew going in that her D22 was going to graduate with a commission and fly away. The winter of her freshman year, she moved up to their vacation home in Vail and applied to be a ski instructor. She's had the time of her life doing that. She's not divorced, but she told her H that if he didn't let her follow her dreams, they could live apart. God bless him... he just said OK.
Other than that, the rest of us are just trying to figure out what next. We keep on keeping on, we have our busy work, we do what needs to be done, but we're also trying to make room for stuff that brings us joy. One bite at a time.
Why don't you just plan the next 3-6 months and see how you can string along a series of small successes? BTW, I did take that cooking class... it was not really cooking, but we did make stuff. The class was called Knife Skills 101. I got paired up with a 16 year old boy who was a delight. He was taking the class with his stepmother, because they both like to cook. How cool is that?
My elephant is finally addressing the enormous amount of grieving I've been doing for the past 2 1/2 years. It knocked me on my ass, and I sat on a couch crying and distracting myself with TV, movies and reading and comforted myself with food. It was bad for my health. So now I have the lovely task of acknowledging how that grief affected me and taking care of the results from making poor choices. I'm having gradual small success there, but it's hard. And I'm mad at myself for having chosen that path. At least my nutritionist says I'm her star client LOL. The good part is that I'm learning all over again the value of self care. When everything else is in doubt, do something for yourself.
Feel free to jump off the sofa to cross off items of your task list. But periodically force yourself to face the hard stuff so you can work it out. The solution won't come until your feelings are addressed and managed. Be nice to yourself!
Hugs, and hang in there. It's not easy, but it's worth the effort.
Betsey
Sunny,
When you have a moment, please start a new thread. Thanks!