New thread!
@Maybell - I knew XBF knew nothing about relationships and yet I still put a lot of faith and trust in him that he'd be able to figure it out and come through.. hmm... I wonder why that is. I guess I did learn some things from XH as I think about it. I learned about the dangers of over/underresponsibility, and of sweeping things under the rug and not paying attention to patterns as they arise. I guess I'm just frustrated because it seems harder to meet people now, especially at this awkward age (where not many people are divorced yet, and people that have been single/not married yet tend to be so.. for a reason).
So what would it look like when my cupcake is all baked?
How would I know when it is time? I honestly am not sure so it's not just a rhetorical question.
K, for me it was when I honestly started enjoying my life in a really healthy way and had accumulated things I was willing to enjoy even when I did them by myself. When I found my sprinkles and he didn't want to do all the things I wanted to, I still enjoyed them even when I went out to do them without him.
When you have found your bliss without a fella, then you can check your cupcake for doneness.
I'd venture to say that once you truly internalize that XBF was not a catch, then you'll be in a much better place to meet someone who will make you happy. I'm not sure you know how to spoil yourself yet. It will greatly enrich your life once you do the things that make you really, really happy. It will make you attractive too and to the right kind of person.
Maybe you starting point could be: "I will not meet someone in the foreseeable future, what now?" and see what happens...
Thanks for your thoughts, y'all. I *feel* like I am happy to do things on my own and don't need someone to do them with.. like I don't really have a problem going out and visiting a park or going to a movie or whatever. It's more like, when I'm sitting at home or at work and something comes to mind and my thought is to reach for the phone and text XBF.. then I remember that's not a thing and get sad. It's moreso that I miss him re: the little day to day things and just knowing there is someone out there that you can count on even if they're not physically present with you at that time. I wonder (/wish?) when that will stop happening. I hope it doesn't take as long as it did to get over XH, that's for sure. I think it took a little over a year before I finally stopped missing XH and thinking about him on a daily basis. I have no desire to text that guy anything or wonder what he's doing.. I just want to get to that point with XBF. It's been almost 3 months since the breakup.
Mozza - yeah, I'm not doing so well with that. Despite some of his behavior (the mixed messages, couldn't hang out with me because he wanted to do laundry, etc.) it's easy to blame it on the timing or me wanting too much, than him being a bad fit. And then I keep wishing he'll come back and maybe this time I can make it different...
Online dating has proven to be extremely frustrating anyway right now. You need a thick skin to begin with and I certainly don't right now. I had gotten up the courage to finally message a bunch of guys I had been eyeing up/bookmarked, and none of them answered me. And instead I get messages from people that I have absolutely zero interest in. Ugh.
Kgirl, I hear you on the online dating part. It gets old and pretty discouraging at times but I try to be solution-focused.
I realised that I may just have to focus my attentions to niche groups like single parent groups.
There was only me in my Spin class yesterday, so the instructor took the bike next to me, and we just talked the whole time. She is 57 and divorced and we began talking about dating after divorce, commitmentphobes, and the whole online dating world. It's a very rough sea for online dating, I am finally particularly at our age (I'm a little older than you, but still in my 30's) It takes persistence, and you really have to be at a very open place to do it. I know I'm not, because I am still not healed form the last R.
JksD has a good point. Single parent groups, meetup groups, I think they fare better for dating and having some fun. Meeting people with the same interests in person is much more "real" to me.
Online dating has proven to be extremely frustrating anyway right now. You need a thick skin to begin with and I certainly don't right now. I had gotten up the courage to finally message a bunch of guys I had been eyeing up/bookmarked, and none of them answered me. And instead I get messages from people that I have absolutely zero interest in. Ugh.
You're right about the thick skin. Reading
Models helped me a lot to deal with rejection. It is presented as an early escape from a bad situation. But anyway, a big congratulations for emailing the guys that you had bookmarked! Way to go!
So, what's up?
Hey K,sounds like you're in a good place. Keep moving forward.
Bug
Hi all,
Just checking in. It's been awhile. Was inspired to come back here because an old friend from elementary/middle school popped back up into my life due to that all-too-familiar story. Her husband of a few years pulled a "I just don't think I love you anymore, I don't want to be married, I held back all my feelings and now I have none left, etc. etc." while secretly texting thousands of messages to a "good friend." She is in the angry phase and has moved halfway back across the country to be closer to her family and hometown. Looked through my thread to try and find some inspiring quotes/words of wisdom... holy s**t does that all seem so long ago! Like a different lifetime. I'm glad I have all of the advice from here to fall back on.
I didn't really have much luck with the online dating thing.. went on a lot of dates, none of them went anywhere, but they did make good fodder for an online dating blog that got rave reviews from my FB friends
Then a few weeks ago, a friend from my hometown asked me if I might like to be introduced to someone she knew from work who she thought might be a good fit. We've been seeing each other for a few weeks and the difference is amazing compared to XBF. He messages me throughout the day, asks me questions about things (like what I'm up to or what I'm doing that day, apparently those sorts of questions are NORMAL!), and I don't feel afraid to share what I'm thinking of him and vice-versa. It really made me see how closed off and unavailable XBF was, and how I probably was too at the time because I wanted to stay "safe", so that's what I attracted. So, one day at a time. We'll see how things go. I'm excited
Thanks for the update! I'm glad you're putting yourself out there. It sounds like you have a bit of a "rebound" experience with this New Guy, as you greatly enjoy the ways in which he's the opposite of the previous one!
Anyway, it's only normal to find someone who is available and, even if it were rare, it would be even more "normal" to find someone that matches your expectations. Good luck!
Welp, that didn't last long. New guy started to get "busy", wasn't making much of an effort to meet up with me, etc. This time I trusted my gut and asked "so I feel like I've been pushing a lot lately to get together and it's been hard to pin you down, I'm not sure what that means?" I then got the "yeah I do want to see you because there are some things on my mind I need to say" and I was like "nope I'm not waiting three days to hear what I think you have to say, tell me now." And as I sort of expected, I got the "I think you're great and attractive and funny but I keep asking myself if I could see a relationship with you and I can't now so I think maybe that means I won't... and to be honest I do want to meet and date other people.. it's too bad we didn't meet at a better time.. etc." I feel like I was the rebound... I guess I'm not surprised considering he met me a month after a three year relationship ended and I was the first person he dated. Would it really have been different if I was the fifth or tenth person he met? Dunno, but maybe telling myself that is easier, because I really liked him, so much more than anyone I had met since XBF, and I thought it could be a thing.
Oh well. I let him know if things change and he realizes how d*mn awesome I am, he knows where to find me, but I can't sit and wait while he decides what he wants and dates other people. Lesson learned - if someone gets weird after the exclusive talk, DON'T proceed with things I'm not willing to do if you're not exclusive (I just told myself "well it'll be ok, in practice he's not dating anyone else, he's just reluctant to say it" - nope, clearly it was on his mind even if he wasn't acting on it). I just got done writing my 3 page angry letter that won't get sent, so feeling slightly better.
I let him know if things change and he realizes how d*mn awesome I am, he knows where to find me, but I can't sit and wait while he decides what he wants and dates other people.
Good for you. Acknowledge your awesomeness and don't let anyone (including yourself) devalue it. Good job on the letter written but not sent.
Sorry things didn't work out this time, KG, but your attitude is stellar - brings a smile to my face.
You've come a long, long way. You're going to be just fine.
Ha, I'm trying...things are sort of a mind**** right now and I'm trying to keep my cool and not overthink things. I had told this guy that I didn't do friends/couldn't keep talking because I would get my hopes up. So what does he do but send me a random snapchat yesterday of a package he got in the mail? Don't get it, not sure what it means (if anything), trying to assume that it means nothing (instead of jumping to the "he misses me! he made a mistake! etc. etc" conclusion).
I see it as more of a "I didn't have a problem with the way things were, let's see if we can just keep it going that way or if she really means what she said..."
Not that he is thinking that dismissively on purpose, he probably just truly liked the way it was working and is having a hard time letting go of THAT relationship. Not the one you want. The one HE wants.
^ that makes sense. ARGH. It's frustrating because he referenced all these things that he liked about "what we had"... so how is that not enough? And I really thought we had a good thing going so it s*cks when you realize you weren't on the same page as someone else/didn't experience it in the same way. This immediately followed a weekend long party binge for him for a friend's 30th birthday out of town so it's niggling at me that that might have had something to do with it, but *shrug* if someone is easily swayed enough by something a friend said, or a girl that said hi to him at a bar, then they're not worth my time, I suppose.
I think the most frustrating thing for me about this "thing" (I don't think 6 weeks qualifies as a relationship) is that I said something about how this s*cks and I don't treat things like sleeping with someone lightly. His response: "just so you know, I don't take sex lightly either. That was a huge deal for me." .....? OK, then why do it if you weren't more committed to seeing where things go? I mean, people have the right to change their minds but *throws hands in the air at people's inconsistencies*
Welp, it's been awhile. A long while, actually! Since my divorce I've now been in three relationships ("relationships"? something that got physical and was more than just a few dates..) and in all three the other person has been the one to end it. Back after the first one my therapist had said "your XH and this one BF do not make a pattern" but now I'm starting to wonder, since I'm the common denominator in all of them. Or is it just that I kick/reject people out much earlier on (like after a first date) and once I'm in, I'm just committed enough to not end it. Or too scared to not end it? I did notice that with the latest guy, I definitely got into a "one down" sort of thing... and then couldn't believe when he decided to move to a different state and that I wasn't good enough for him to want to stay here, because I was d*mn sure I was better than anything he was offering!
Dating is discouraging, relationships are discouraging, I look online and no one is appealing... there are no guys at work... none of my friends know any single guys... I'm trying to be happy on my own but it's been a pretty flippin' rough road. I'm convinced I need to find a widower because then at least I'll meet someone who actually knows how to be in a relationship/is emotionally ready and available for one. It's hard to keep putting yourself out there and trusting someone, just for them to keep breaking your heart. And with this last guy, I REALLY put myself out there after being unsure of a few things (like.. he was allergic to cats.. and I have two cats), after friends and coworkers cajoled me to "take a chance" and "don't sabotage something that could be great! don't give up before you even started." Ha. I guess I just have to have faith that statistically speaking I will meet someone as long as I keep trying.
On the positive side, I went on a lovely solo trip to Las Vegas last week. I think part of my blues is the post-vacation, back to real world blues, now that there's not that to look forward to. Lots of sun and food and drinks and I met a few other people from different states and countries via a Solo Las Vegas FB group so I didn't have to be alone the whole time! Already thinking about when I can go back...
KGirl, , so happy to hear from you! I'll try to write later but just wanted you to know I'm here and listening.
Hi, K!
If your friends have to talk you into taking a chance and not giving up too quickly, why bother with him? Don't go all in until you're excited.
When I was in my 20's, before Mr. Fantastic, I also kicked guys out pretty quickly... and looking back, I see no reason why I should have kept them around. Guys who were great on paper but boring or didactic... guys who were cute but boring... Only once did I blow someone off that in retrospect might have been a great match. But he had a super redneck accent!! The fact that I gave up for such a shallow reason shows that *I* was a bad match for *him* at that time. So *he* dodged a bullet there.
Don't assume that a widower has the market cornered on relationship skills. We're all just doing the best we can, and some of us have done more work than others. My Guy talks circles around me on the emotional stuff, but he's still working with ME. His relationship skills are only as good as his ability to relate to me. If you think about the friendships you have that you really value, you probably will see that none of them are perfect enough that you'd want to be married to them, but they all have some quality that is really important to you. Same with the romantic relationship. It has to work on both sides. Your friends' input is really pretty irrelevant. If you're not feeling it, why push it? If you hide yourself in a mediocre "relationship" you might miss a good one.
With My Guy, I'm coming to the realization that a good relationship isn't necessarily what I thought it was. I thought it was like Shrek and Fiona, or something like that, where you're laughing all the time. And at moments it is. But it's also all the times that aren't film-worthy, like when it's Saturday afternoon and I NEED to get the laundry done and he NEEDS to go for a bike ride and we have to figure out how to make our time work so both our needs get met and we still get time together. It's me getting used to how he feels about hot weather and his family and skiing and a whole bunch of things I never had to think about before. How well I handle his stuff and how well he handles mine is an important part of what makes the relationship good or bad.
Take some time not dating! I don't know if you're a believer or not, but a friend of mine who married later in life told me that she believed that if God made you to want to be married, that he would not put that yearning in your life without also giving you the opportunity to fulfill it. But you have to be willing to sit back and follow your instincts to find the path that gets you to the right person. Sure, it's important to put yourself out there, but it's also important to be available.
Thanks for updating! I'm glad to hear from you.
Hi Maybell!
Yeah, I tend to fluctuate/struggle between "maybe I shouldn't hang my hat on what I think is ideal.. maybe I should step outside my comfort zone and maybe some things aren't really dealbreakers.. there's only so many guys and I can't be that picky" vs. "I'm not being too picky, I just know what I want and settling never ends well." Not sure how to balance that quite yet, I guess. I do think I have a habit of chasing after the lost puppies/wanting to try to help or fix someone and following those leads (but telling myself it's "giving someone a chance and keeping an open mind") rather than people who are emotionally available/ready for a relationship. How else did I manage to 1) find someone who had never been in a relationship with someone in real life, 2) find someone whose ex-girlfriend wasn't even moved out yet, 3) find someone who was still getting divorced and telling me how I was so much nicer to him than his ex-wife and my main virtue was that I "didn't yell at him"? Apparently I'm not good at identifying this problematic issues or am willing to overlook them, and I'm not sure what that says about my availability, either.
I hear that about how things aren't all sunshine and unicorns. I feel like I am willing to do the work and I know things are hard and won't always be perfect. But somehow I keep getting involved with people who run or give up the first time something gets hard (or just decide they "aren't feeling it") and then I get frustrated that I was willing to put in the work and they were not. I'm not religious but hopefully I can generally have faith/trust that eventually it will work out. I mean, statistically speaking, most people who are looking for marriage find it eventually, right? :S I do have some older coworkers that are not but they have intentionally chosen that and aren't interested in relationships at this point.
I feel like I am willing to do the work and I know things are hard and won't always be perfect.
KGirl, I dated someone large chunks of last year, an on-again off-again kind of thing. When we were "off", I went out with other guys, 50 first dates. My friends started making fun of me for being an entire season of Seinfeld episodes, I dumped these guys for the most inane reasons. Low talker, close talker, man hands, puffy shirt. But they weren't right for me for whatever reason and it would have been a waste of everyone's time to go on a second date. I am willing to do the work and I know things are hard and won't always be perfect, but....that's what dating is for, to decide if you want to make some sort of committment to each other. It's OK if you go out with a lot of guys, just don't waste time trying to fix them. Move on. If he's not the one, it doesn't matter why, and you aren't married to him. Move on. Enjoy the process. I met some nice guys, and learned a lot about myself. There's nothing wrong with that. And now I've been dating someone a couple of months, and I'd have probably never met him if I had been wasting time trying to force something with someone else. So, my advice is, relax and enjoy the process, trust your gut, be quick to politely move on from someone you have no commitment to. Wishing you all the best, please post more often.
Hi K Girl,
I was happy to see your post. I was in Vegas the same time you were and the weather was simply divine. Hope you had fun.
I love words of encouragement and even though I am guilty of using clichés, there are some I loathe. Like "you have to put yourself out there" (always reminds me of someone hanging off a balcony marionette style) or the "you could miss something great by not giving them a chance." True but you might not:) Friends always have good intentions, however, just trust your gut. Someone may be a great guy, and he still not may be a good fit for you.
Hang in there! Glad to catch up with your posts.
Thanks, all. I guess I have a hard time letting people go when I think the negatives could be shallow-ish/can be overlooked and want to give people chances... sort of like stray kittens. It's been hard for me to decide what is important and what is not, I guess. In this last relationship I learned that some things maybe weren't as important (this guy was quite a bit more overweight than anyone I've dated or would typically be interested in, and I found it didn't really bother me. But the way he treated his dog, and the sneakily trying to vape inside places like restaurants, DID bother me... all I would have had to invest time in to discover them, unfortunately. Those things don't come out on date #3!).
I probably don't stop by here that often anymore becuase... I don't often think of myself as divorced, but rather just single? Without kids or any reason to talk to XH the fact that was I was married has become a less conscious part of my day-to-day life. I'm pretty sure the last I even heard of him was a text he sent me in March 2016. Once in awhile a friend will mention something inane he is up to but otherwise.. erased. Until I try to date and see people put in their profiles things like "never married, no kids" implying that that's supposed to make them a better catch. Ugh.
GB, too bad we couldn't have figured out a way to meet up had I checked in beforehand! I'm in a fb group for solo Vegas travelers and it was fun meeting up with people when I felt like it (and then getting to do whatever I wanted when I didn't!)
Do I see that both GB and Maybelle have some long term relationships going with some marriage talk? What is the secret, ladies, how did you find them, how do you keep them?? Please tell me! I'll admit, I'm a little envious... I guess I thought that as a decent, semi-attractive person I'd have found someone by now but reality is smacking me in the face...
Yes, My Guy and I have been dating for almost a year and a half. He's very sweet.
I have no secret. I got lucky finding him and I've been lucky with how patient and generous he is and how willing he is to see my best parts. It hasn't been without bumps. It's just been two people who want more or less the same things and are patient enough to not give up on each other.
I did not start dating until Mr. Fantastic had been out of the house for a year and a half. I actually time when I started dating from when I screamed "I need space!" And slammed the front door on Mr. Fantastic. That's when my healing from all that began. Well, it's when I began expecting him to do some work on the relationship in order to get me back, and when I stopped expecting him to actually make the effort. I signed up for match about a year after that, and I really just signed up as a way of finding out what was out there. I got lucky that it only took a few weeks to find My Guy.
I thought I was pretty well over Mr. Fantastic when I started seeing My Guy but the truth is I have discovered pockets of hurt and grief and anger over time, even as happy as I am with My Guy. One doesn't negate the other. My happiness with My Guy doesn't heal me from the wounds Mr. Fantastic inflicted.
One thing I've learned in my year and a half with My Guy is that I am still absolutely, 100% as much my own person as I was during the time that I was alone. It took a while to figure that out. I was very anxious and a little needy during the first, I don't know, 10-12 months? I wanted him to commit and recommit and I wanted to feel married again even though I barely knew him.
He was absolutely committed to taking things slowly (in some ways). He is a person I have been able to learn healthy relationship habits from. I can be myself around him, 100%. I started a really demanding new profession when we'd been dating about 3-4 months and he's stood by me absolutely through tears and meltdowns and utter exhaustion. We can have arguments and work our way out of them constructively (I'll be honest, I sometimes enjoy the arguments because in many ways they bring us closer). He does stuff for me all the time, little things. He holds my hand, all the time. I look up to him on some things, but without feeling like I'm less than. Because he was totally inflexible about taking things slowly I had the space to understand how to be myself in the relationship and that has brought it up to amazing. Our lives interact so wonderfully now. We help each other. I know about the stuff he's got going on and he asks my opinions about it, and I share my stuff with him and appreciate his perspective as well.
I have absolutely no illusions that if I somehow lost this, it would be easy to replace. But I think if I did lose him, I would be better equipped to be single than I was when Mr. Fantastic left. From that perspective, My Guy has been enormously helpful to my healing. I appreciate that. A LOT.
K, if you aren't ready to be single then it will be hard for you to find that kind of relationship. There has to be space for YOU in the relationship -- do you know who you are yet?
Don't doubt that you are lovable and that there is someone out there for you. But do be willing to invest some time in yourself, even while dating. It's the best thing you can do for a good relationship.
Hi K-Girl,
Btw, nice post Maybell. Yes, I have been dating someone around 10 months. One of my guy friends wanted to set me up with "this really cool guy." I admit, I wasn't really looking to date so when he asked me to meet for a drink, I took 4 days to respond. I was on vacation and wasn't sure if I should go. Glad I did:-)
I might have some different issues. I am super, crazy independent. Always have been and am realizing it always plays a factor in my relationships. I have a tendency to attract guys looking for a relationship. It sounds a bit odd, but I have met the people I started relationships with when I absolutely wasn't looking. That sounds cliche and it is 100% true for me. I'm that bad cliche of love happening when you aren't looking 😉 I am trying my darndest to be honest and more open to someone "helping me."
My guy lives about 45 minutes away and has a D the same age as my youngest-7. I really never saw myself blending families or having to consider another child in my life. This is certainly not bad, however, there are times when some of this stuff is out of my wheelhouse. I try to regroup and realize that at this stage, EVERYONE has a life and some obligations. I do have my children probably about 90% of the time so I was very clear with the new guy in the beginning that I don't have a lot of time to date or go to him. After about a month of meeting him once a week, I told him that my babysitter was back at school. If you want to see me, then you will have to come to my crazy house. I realize that sounds like I'm asking a lot of someone else but I did not want to deceive him in any way or think that my situation was not what it was. If I'm being honest, most peeps wouldn't sign up for my caca. My kids are awesome. My dog is charming. I'm hilarious and have good hair but well, it's a lot to take on. No delusions here. However, he has been patient with me and super understanding. He told me a few months ago that he thinks I'm the one ( I was probably wearing my sweatpants with paint on the butt ) and he said the color drained from my face when he said that. He is funny and fantastic to me. I am however, very hesitant to discuss marriage. I don't see the need to rush and he understands that. My kids adore him and he is fantastic with them.
I think the challenge for me is that I'm cognizant of many things I need to be aware of as we move forward. I'm stubborn, headstrong and a free spirit and he has been supportive of me even when I can tell he is perplexed. What I most appreciate is that he is respectful of my thoughts (regardless of whether they are in sync with his) and I do his as well. If I could make any recommendations it would be to really live your life and not allow the OP to become your life. They should enhance your life. And I find myself relaxed and at peace in this relationship because I no longer do things because I think I'm supposed to do them. That doesn't mean I don't compromise, I just don't do things that feel exhausting or taxing. Maybe that's wrong but eh, works best for me right now.
You have always seemed like a smart, kind, lovely young lady. Perhaps (and I'm guessing) you feel you are at a place where you should give someone a chance because people say you should. Or because they express interest in you. Maybe you should really think about what qualities are truly important to YOU. I do think sometimes when people are a little more discerning they have a tendency to find someone that they connect with on a deeper level. People generally show you who they are pretty early, so believe them. Keep looking 😊
Sorry for the "War And Peace" length hijack. It's Friday night and I just did laundry. Wild times :-)
Kgirl, it's not only you or women - it's happening to a lot of us, including me. Now mind you I'm not looking for nor wanting marriage, but I'd love to have someone talk about me like Maybell just talked about her guy. Wish how I'd love that! I know it could happen as I believe with all of my being that I'm an awesome guy. Selfesteam is not the issue. So I really think it could happen. I just highly doubt it will. Two weeks on Match? I've gone two months without as much as a response for crying out loud.
I've given up. If it happens, it happens but I'm doing pretty much no looking anymore. For me I think it's my age group. I'm, gulp, 54 inside the mind of a 35 year old who looks like he's in his 40s
I really don't want to hijack here so what I want to say is Georgia and Maybell please don't underestimate how rare what you have is. If nothing else I've learned that I'll never take the right women for granted after going without for 12 years. Please don't either. Kgirl you will find someone. I'm sure of it as you have so much of your life ahead of you. It will happen when you least expect it.
TRUST ME, I don't take it for granted at all. I feel like I've been struck by lightning.
Hi Don,
You are correct! I am super lucky. I've found someone who treats me fabulously and is undeterred by my circumstances. That is not so common in our culture now. I watch people every day get in these super complex situations thinking they will change. "I know he only has time to see me a, b, or c, but if he would just...." Or the infamous, "I wish he would x, because...." and I hear all of this WAY early. I have never had the capacity to jump thru hoops to get to know someone and I see people doing that frequently. My thoughts are if you immediately wish things were different, then why waste the energy? Find someone where you don't feel that way.
We all have lives and baggage. However, even at this point in life it shouldn't be a struggle to get to know someone. Yes, life is challenging and curveballs are thrown at us, but I don't think you should have to move mountains to decide if you like someone. I see some of my friends try those situations and it makes me tired watching!
And K-Girl, you are young and have so much ahead of you. Hang in there!!!
I totally agree with you Georgia and refuse to do that. Hell I could not do it even if I tried. I just don't have it in me. I'm picky and will not settle. I'd rather be on my own than struggle in an R with someone else. Therefore, I'm alone.
Thanks, all. I'm super late to rejoining this party. That whole life thing gets in the way... normally I'm a pretty low-key work person (like, hate to work more than 40 hours a week, don't like to do too much that takes a lot of planning or big picture thinking or conceptual undertaking) but I tried to step outside of my comfort zone and took on a big committee chair role. It's been tough. But probably important for professional development blah blah blah.
GB, what you said about "If only he would do XYZ etc" is hitting home for me right now. I've gotten into it with someone who I am totally infatuated with, we click in a lot of ways, but there is one key piece that we are completely different on, and that is in regards to timing/planning. I am very much someone who wants to know everything in advance, who won't cancel plans unless I'm basically dying, and who follows through on everything even if I decide it's not serving me well/really don't want to do it anymore (there's some good and some bad there right? growth opportunity somewhere..) whereas he is someone who is very go with the flow, spontaneous, doesn't think much of changing something at the last minute if a different opportunity comes up. It's been a struggle. Still navigating it all and seeing if it's worth overcoming, and how much of it is compromise and communication vs. trying to get someone to change which is no bueno (for example, we've talked about how I'll let him know if something is a Big Deal and he needs to be there, vs. things he can come with me to or not and I'll be fine without him, and how he will try to be more realistic about how long it takes him to get home from work, get ready, etc.) If nothing else it's been a good lesson in letting go of some more of my controlling aspects in favor of what's actually important/matters. Example - we did some fourth of july plans that were not "planned" to the extent I would have liked ("are you suuurre we can eat dinner at 7 and still make it to the fireworks...") but it all turned out great and beautifully and I had no reason to be anxious. Otherwise, he loves cats, which is important
Ugh. Today I am very much in a "why do I have to be divorced, why did my XH have to be such a s***, why did I stay with him when I could have met someone I'd still be married to" sort of mood. I'm tired of seeing friends/coworkers be happy with their spouses and have someone to come home to when things are stressful. Someone they can count on and rely on. Yes I know they may not be as happy as they look but for the most part my friends are pretty happy and wouldn't trade their spouses for anything.
The current relationship I am in is so up and down lately, I have no idea what to do. One week we're having a great time, hanging out, I'm introduced as "girlfriend" (yay!), I think we're having good conversation and communication, the next week I get bailed on when we're supposed to do something, and when I try to talk about it I get told that maybe we should break up because he feels bad he can't give me the attention I deserve/doesn't have time for me and doesn't know if he ever will (??) We maybe get together once a week despite living half an hour apart due to his work schedule/whatever else he's doing (like spending entire weekends with his family). Right now I have no idea what's happening because we left it at "let's talk in person". I think it's worth talking about (in particular, I don't like being told "I can't give you what you deserve" - why don't you do the best you can and let ME decide if that's what I want or not??) but obviously so much of that is outside my control. I understand people have lives and I want to be independent and co-dependent but I also want to know I am a priority to someone and they will make time for me. I'm willing to stick through this tough time (busy work schedule) but I haven't gotten any reassurances about how long this will last or that he even would WANT more time with me if he could. Being single at this age feels hard. The guys who haven't been married yet seem to have trouble with relationships for a reason (can't communicate, or compromise, or commit, workaholics, etc.)
Is this the same guy your friends were talking you into giving him a chance back in April? If so... why???
Dating should be FUN. It shouldn't be this sacrificial "I'm willing to give this a chance... he's good enough" kind of thing. That's settling. You don't need to settle!
Do you know who you are yet? Are you happy being single yet? Because I guarantee, until you are, you aren't going to find a relationship worth fighting for.
I get that it's hard to be surrounded by couples. All of us here have had that problem. When Mr. Fantastic left I was the lone single lady in a group of SAH married moms. They're sitting around complaining about how their husbands don't load the dishwasher properly and I'm biting my tongue to keep from screaming at how lucky that's their worst marital problem. I GET IT. But there are single people of all ages out there, and part of your job is to go find them and have fun with them, getting to know what makes you laugh even without the arm candy.
I'm sorry for bopping you on the head but I can't wait to see the KGirl I knew before to come back... the one who bought the brightly colored car all on her own, decorated her new apartment, got her cat because it made her happy... Where is that girl? This guy doesn't sound like someone worth losing sleep over.
Kirl, I think you have to take an honest look at what this boyfriend (or not) is DOING more than what he is SAYING. His actions would appear to show he's just not that into you. If he wanted to see you, spend time with you, do things with you, then he would. Instead he CHOSES to do things with his family or friends or work or whatever. What does that show you?
Is it possible you are allowing this to happen? Are you there, ready and waiting should he decide to throw you a date? I don't know how long you've been dating nor where you are at in this R but it appears when he has nothing else to do then he'll gang out with you, but if more important, interesting or fun things come along, then he leaves you sit. Why coukd you not spend one day of the weekend with him and his family?
I would suggest that you start seeing things for what they are - watch what he does rather than what he says - although he even says he's not sure. Then don't be all in on him no matter what. Start doing other things, make other plans, meet other people. If he really likes you, thus may be the catelist for him to spend more time with you. If he sees he can't just use you when he has nothing better, or thinks you might be dating other guys he may come around. If he doesn't, he likely is just not that into you.
I know that's not what you want but like you said about wasting time with exh, don't waste time with a guy who us not that into you when a guy who will be into you is likely out there waiting!
Ugh. Today I am very much in a "why do I have to be divorced, why did my XH have to be such a s***, why did I stay with him when I could have met someone I'd still be married to" sort of mood.
um, no offense, (really) but I was married longer than you've been alive. Learn to be Be good alone. It is a gift for which I'm learning to be grateful.
I'm tired of seeing friends/coworkers be happy with their spouses and have someone to come home to when things are stressful.
do you see your friends/coworkers going home stressed and their spouses making them feel good? Come on, you know better. You were married.
Someone they can count on and rely on.
As much as I CRAVE this^^ - I had it and then it went away. Maybe we have to rescue ourselves, and never "rely" on someone else to do it for us. Even the great truest spouses can die, or change.
Yes I know they may not be as happy as they look but for the most part my friends are pretty happy and wouldn't trade their spouses for anything.
Then they are blessed. Good for them. They sound like good role models.
The current relationship I am in is so up and down lately, I have no idea what to do. One week we're having a great time, hanging out, I'm introduced as "girlfriend" (yay!), I think we're having good conversation and communication, the next week I get bailed on when we're supposed to do something, and when I try to talk about it I get told that maybe we should break up because he feels bad he can't give me the attention I deserve/doesn't have time for me and doesn't know if he ever will (??)
translation - "don't ever expect me to fulfill your needs or wants, b/c if you do, I'll leave. So there. Keep lowering your standards or you'll be alone."
We maybe get together once a week despite living half an hour apart due to his work schedule/whatever else he's doing (like spending entire weekends with his family).
Right now I have no idea what's happening because we left it at "let's talk in person".
I think it's worth talking about (in particular, I don't like being told "I can't give you what you deserve" -
hard to believe man/boys can say this crap out loud and not have it be seen for what it is.
KGirl, maybe you should look at the...website. Don't take offense at the name, it's quite fitting for many of us and there's no shame in it.
But this guy is bad news. Period. No question. I'm very sorry b/c I know you are vulnerable. But being alone and able to meet a good guy
is way better than lowering your standards and being off the market, especially in a relationship that sounds doomed already.
why don't you do the best you can and let ME decide if that's what I want or not??) but obviously so much of that is outside my control. I understand people have lives and I want to be independent and co-dependent
???
but I also want to know I am a priority to someone and they will make time for me.
this ^^^ is a given.
I'm willing to stick through this tough time (busy work schedule) but I haven't gotten any reassurances about how long this will last or that he even would WANT more time with me if he could.
KGirl, what is the ^^^question here? This guy has been pretty clear. He does not really want a r the way you do.
So you can take it or leave it. A half a$$ one that leaves you feeling rejected, or nothing.
Don't forget the hard earned lessons from your divorce.
Being single at this age feels hard.
Um, here's a small 2 x 4, "seriously??" As opposed to what, when you were 20? Come on, get some perspective.
You know the answer. My suggestion is to get some IC to learn to be content on your own.
I firmly believe we all need it (my first time living alone in my life, began 4 months ago. I am GLAD for it and never really knew that I would be).
I think when we crave other's company and present with our bucket of need, we tend to attract those who cannot fill the needs. And then we create a cycle.
But you can break it. People do everyday.
-
Right now I have no idea what's happening because we left it at "let's talk in person".
I think it's worth talking about (in particular, I don't like being told "I can't give you what you deserve" -
When a man tells you who he is - BELIEVE HIM!
He just told you he can't give you what you deserve. Take him at his word and move on to find someone who CAN give you what you deserve.
Ooof, thanks everyone.
This is a different guy than the one back in April (he decided to move out of state and I washed my hands of him after that). This guy I met in mid-May. And am like crazy about so that makes it all the harder. As in, have liked him more than anyone else I've met in the past 2.5 years (I'm not sure what that says about me or my choices). He overall has his life together in many ways and there's a ton of stuff I like about him. He's just... really... busy... and I'm not sure where the line is of me being flexible and understanding vs. being a doormat is. He's taken on more responsibilities at work in the past month that he says will be short-term. He also within the past few weeks became a property manager separate from work and is dealing with repairs and rental agreements. Oh, and he's moving in two weeks! So, I think it is quite possible that he would have more time available in the future and that circumstances/timing right now are just particularly difficult, but I don't know so. Hard to predict the future.
Maybell, boops on the head are good
We do have a ton of fun when we're together. It's getting to the actually getting together part that is sometimes challenging. I dunno. I guess I have to decide if I'm willing to go with the flow until it's REALLY not working for me, or not.
DonH - yes, I think part of the issue is that in an effort to be flexible/accomodating/understanding of all the things he has going on, I've maybe been TOO accommodating (like, actually sitting around at home waiting on him when he says "we could hang out if I get home early enough from X but I really have no idea when I'll be done so if you have other things to do, do them!") I guess I worry that if I fill my time with other plans and there's nothing left for him, then I won't see him at all. But maybe that's what has to happen for him to realize "hey I guess I need to plan ahead if I want to see KGirl" and if he doesn't realize that then obviously he is not that interested in seeing me in the first place. I think he cares hence why he is feeling so badly and stressed but, I don't know.
25 - whoops, typo, I meant be independent and NOT codependent. I hear you, everything that I read on the internet says if someone says they don't know if they can give you what you deserve, to run away. It's hard when you're in the thick of the situation and don't to give up on someone. Particularly when sometimes he says this is only temporary, he's going to make me a priority whenever he can, he's going to look for a new job that requires less hours so he'll have more time available, etc. But then he says "I don't know if I'll ever be able to be X" and then I don't know what's true, or if he's just having a particularly anxious/insecure day and just saying what's popping into his head.
Re: what I deserve, I'm totally content to hang out once or twice a week, and that's what we've been doing up until the last week or two, so maybe I need to be a bit more secure in myself and know just because there's a week or two that's busy, that I shouldn't read into it. We chat a lot online throughout the day. We've only been dating two months and didn't know each other before that so I'm not expecting him to drop the other aspects of his life that existed way before me to make a huge investment in me. So I guess I'm not sure where his anxiety or insecurity is coming from that he isn't "enough". He has a history of anxiety. When he starts getting all worked up about it then I start getting worked up about it when I didn't even know he was upset about anything in the first place ... etc.
Obviously you all haven't talked me out of leaving just yet
But I guess I need to think hard when we do talk in person (sounds like tomorrow night or Friday night) about how to approach this and go from there. Open ended questions like "what was your goal when you got into online dating?" "what would an ideal relationship look like for you?" "what in particular are you worried about with regards to us and not being 'enough'?" etc.?
Obviously you all haven't talked me out of leaving just yet wink But I guess I need to think hard when we do talk in person (sounds like tomorrow night or Friday night) about how to approach this and go from there.[b] Open ended questions like "what was your goal when you got into online dating?"
What difference would ^^that make, Now?
"what would an ideal relationship look like for you?" "what in particular are you worried about with regards to us and not being 'enough'?" etc.?[/b]
^^^this is total 100% pursuit. Is that your goal? I'm asking. You are so early in this r!
Okay to me it is clear that you want more and he says he cannot give more. I'm not confused.
Sometimes he says other things but I can't tell if that is when you are prompting him or asking, or if he brings up R talk. But to me, his actions scream to back off. If there is a lasting connection, let him find it.
In any case, this is not a m or a committed r. This is a lot of second guessing for a new r. It's very early on to be having all these questions.
What if you see him when YOU BOTH have time and GAL as much as you can regardless of him? No pressure, no r talks, etc.
I think there is a big "pursuer distancer" dynamic going on and it's not working for you.
So either play it differently or walk away from the table.
^^ yeeeeppp. I feel like every relationship I've ever been in results in me being the pursuer. It's like I don't want it because I want the other person to take initiative, but then I do it anyways, and then I get resentful, but then I can't help myself and keep doing it, etc. One of my friends suggested "why don't you plan your life as if he doesn't exist? Like if you're debating to go do something or say yes to plans, think what would you do if he wasn't in the picture?" etc. I'm finding it super hard, I don't know if it's a people-pleasing thing or what.
I guess I worry that if I fill my time with other plans and there's nothing left for him, then I won't see him at all. But maybe that's what has to happen for him to realize "hey I guess I need to plan ahead if I want to see KGirl" and if he doesn't realize that then obviously he is not that interested in seeing me in the first place.
Exactly this! Go about your life, make plans with friends, do NOT be sitting home waiting for him! Soon enough he'll get the message that he has to make plans with you in advance. (This, btw, is what grown up men who have a genuine interest in a woman do.)
Let me tell you a story. When I was first dating after my divorce, I dated several guys that would fall into the category of Love Avoidants. They wanted SOME intimacy. but didn't need much of it, and didn't want to be obligated in any way.
I had a "coffee buddy" that I would chat with at my local Starbucks in the morning, and was telling him about my travails with my current Love Avoidant "boyfriend". Turns out, coffee buddy was also Love Avoidant and he told me what it's like from his perspective. He said, if he made a date with a woman on Monday to go out on Friday night, it hung over him all week "like a dentist appointment" lol. So he'd wait until Friday to call, if she was available, great, if not, he'd just call another girl or just hang out by himself. He was perfectly happy with that approach but I bet it drove his dates crazy. The truth of the matter was, he just didn't CARE ENOUGH whether the date worked out or not. And he was terrified of feeling obligated if it turned out he just wasn't in the mood once Friday rolled around.
Now - your new date might just be super busy and you might be too needy. OR he might be a classic Love Avoidant. His past history with relationships might give you a clue as to which he is.
But while you put together the clues, don't be too available. The Love Avoidant will be content to just see you on the rare occasions where it works out. The overworked guy who really DOES want to see you will get a clue and make the effort to make firm dates in advance.
^^ yeeeeppp. I feel like every relationship I've ever been in results in me being the pursuer. It's like I don't want it because I want the other person to take initiative, but then I do it anyways, and then I get resentful, but then I can't help myself
K, you are not powerless. Unless you choose to be, which is not the same as actually being powerless. What is with the "can't help" yourself, knowing it's not a healthy or happiness producing behavior?
Are you seeing an IC?
and keep doing it, etc. One of my friends suggested "why don't you plan your life as if he doesn't exist? Like if you're debating to go do something or say yes to plans, think what would you do if he wasn't in the picture?" etc. I'm finding it super hard, I don't know if it's a people-pleasing thing or what.
Sounds like fear of being alone, and or a desire to replay some unhealthy dynamic in which you choose men who are not really available to you.
I say that b/c you say you are doing this in "every relationship" and you know it's not making you happy.
And this r is about 2 months old. I hope I'm not even noticing this stuff when I'm 2 months into a new r, b/c that is so fast to have expectations and to be having ANY r talk, imo.
Guess I just have the long view.
If you are as troubled by this as you sound, I'd see someone and explore it more.
((( )))
K-girl,
I love it when you post and 25 and kml have given stellar advice. There is one snippet of dating advice that has stuck with me since college. If you have to jump through hoops on the front end (unless you are a circus performer), then it's just-not-worth-it. You are only 2 months in and I got exhausted reading about his challenges. It's like you are trying to prove that you are worthy of his time. Nope. Nope. Nope.
However, I do understand that you struggle with being single. I realize you are young, but you probably have many friends that are married. I was in a couple from 20-41 (with different peeps). I get it. I do. And I truly sympathize with you feeling like an anomaly even though realistically you aren't. Your feelings are your feelings.
Live your life. If he wants to see you, he will make a genuine effort. And if he doesn't make the effort? I know it's a cr@ppy feeling, but you weren't ever going to be important enough.
I do think you need to dig a bit deeper as to why you feel the need to pursue. I have a friend who falls into that role with men who are not "that" interested and it leaves her feeling rejected and sad. What she doesn't realize is that their level of interest was apparent from the beginning. It's what suits their schedule/desires etc. I don't think that's what you want.
And yes, dating can be difficult. Don't be so quick to "jump in" and let things evolve. Sending you a hug!
Hmm expectations....right, this is something I'm also struggling with. On the one hand, after two months it's maybe not realistic for him to include me in family functions, etc (but he has included me in stuff with his friends which is positive?) but I can't help but think things like "why can't he cut family weekend short to see me or invite me" or "why was I not invited to THAT friend thing" or "I want to see someone once on the weekend and once during the week" even though we are in touch every few hours, and would I really rather trade seeing someone three times a week for a text once a day?? compound that with friends who say "now is when you are supposed to want to see each other all the time, my husband and I were together every night when we were dating"... I am confused. I don't know if I'm needy or moving too fast or just totally inappropriately infatuated. it also does me no good to compare myself to friends who last dated right after college when they had lots of free time and few responsibilities.
I did go to IC a year ago. It was after my first break up and mostly I was told "you are normal, you just wanted different things, two relationships ending does not a pattern make" but perhaps the conversation would be different now.
but anyways, yes, I think I need to stop jumping through hoops and see what happens. I don't need to play games and pretend to be busy when I'm not, but I don't need to bend over backwards. As scary as it feels, he'll either step up or he won't. or he'll just dump me next time we're together and I won't have to worry about it... right now I need to figure out how to address the immediate "so you said you felt like we should break up, do you mean that?" so I'm not living under that uncertainty.
but anyways, yes, I think I need to stop jumping through hoops and see what happens. I don't need to play games and pretend to be busy when I'm not, but I don't need to bend over backwards. As scary as it feels,
Wait K, what is so scary ^^here? What is it you fear?
What does this difficult r with a guy you cannot possibly know that well, mean to you down deep? I'm asking.
He's a guy you have known 2 months. It's not a m, he's not the father of your kids who is suddenly running away. it's not a 5 year investment on your end or his.
He is a guy who is either 1) not in a position for a real r now, and those take time, OR
2) he's just not that into it with you.
OUCH! I know that^^^ hurts - but those ^^ are the only options.
If it's #1, AND IF it changes, cross that bridge when you get to it.
I think it'll come way more naturally than you seem to believe. So GAL and detach and if he pursues enough, (not just a little, & not just sometimes) that is great.
If it's #2, then GAL and detach so you can more easily move along.
See how the course of action for you, is the same?
he'll either step up or he won't. or he'll just dump me next time we're together and I won't have to worry about it...
back off. A 2 month r that ends - is not him "dumping" you, it's one or both of you realizing you are not a good fit.
That is Not a flaw in you, it's not a horrible reflection on you.
right now I need to figure out how to address the immediate "so you said you felt like we should break up, do you mean that?" so I'm not living under that uncertainty.
If he wants out, let him go gracefully. Don't probe for details. Don't belabor the point or have a conversation of more than 5 minutes
I mean it. Prolonged break up talks this early on, mean someone is either being cold, or someone is being needy.
If he wants to "work" on the r, be casual and back way way off. Then go your way and let nature take its course.
If you have to "work on things" this early in the r, it's hard for me to see this as a good long term emotional investment.
It's not a shortcoming in you to realize maybe you are not ready for a serious r, or maybe your "partner picker" needs honing.
I'm just asking.
Hi KGirl, I think you have already had some wise advice. Are you inappropriately infatuated, a bit needy, moving too fast? Possibly a little of all three? It is a very new R after all..
Any time we find ourselves thinking - I wish he would do X or Y - is a good time to completely and absolutely accept all current circumstances. All is as it is. He is at where he is at and doing what he is doing. Once we do this, we can look within and decide what we will do. I say this on the basis that we have 100% control over ourselves and about 0.01% over someone else.
In your case, I think you do sound somewhat over-invested in a new relationship. You have expectations and you are experiencing frustration too. Your pursuit comment resonated with me too - I also have pursuing tendencies, and I am learning to sit back and let things unfold more now - it's a work in progress for me!!
I think the best plan may be to gently shift some of that investment into other parts of your life and dial your investment in him down a little. Not that you need to accept things are going to end or anything, just to drop things in your mind to a less invested level and then behave accordingly. For now, invest some more energy in friends, family and other activities....then things will unfold in time for you both...
Best of luck with everything... :)xx
OK, I'm trying to do this today. Yesterday morning I mentioned "wanna get together Thursday or Friday?" and he said sure, sounds good. I am trying really hard to NOT text to ask "so, did you want to get together tonight.. or tomorrow..?" This is difficult for me because as a planner I don't like waiting until the day-of to know what I'm going to do after work (do I need to clean up, did I wear the right underwear!, what's going to happen for dinner, etc.) But I guess there's nothing bad with rolling with it and saying if he brings it up "yeah, tonight still works but I need an hour to pick up my dirty clothes and stuff." I am also trying really hard to not initiate messages and just respond to him instead. It's making me very anxious. For example, he sent me this picture of a thing he is looking for and it's clearly at someone else's house. I said "well did you ask whoever it is where it's from?" He said "yeah they said it's from etc..." and my brain immediately goes to "wait, why 'they'? where were you? are you at some girl's house? why the vagueness?" Clearly I'm having some issues...
OK, I'm trying to do this today. Yesterday morning I mentioned "wanna get together Thursday or Friday?" and he said sure, sounds good. I am trying really hard to NOT text to ask "so, did you want to get together tonight.. or tomorrow..?"
you have already initiated ^^^this, so it's not your job to clarify or ask again. Did you give him 2 nights as options b/c you assumed it would be harder for him to say he's busy?
PLEASE Stop the pursuit. Let him come to you. Treat him like a squirrel, no sudden moves and not so darn much chasing. Chasing is not working for you.
When something does not serve you, including behaviors, exchange it for something that does serve you.
This is difficult for me because as a planner I don't like waiting until the day-of to know what I'm going to do after work (do I need to clean up, did I wear the right underwear!, what's going to happen for dinner, etc.)
Make plans for yourself b/c you are a planner. Then if he asks you out, you can invite him to join you. Either way - you have plans.
But I guess there's nothing bad with rolling with it and saying if he brings it up "yeah, tonight still works but I need an hour to pick up my dirty clothes and stuff."
why would that^^ be bad? Also he does not owe you a reason for joining late, or not joining at all. You are not in an established r wherein explanations are required.
You just started dating 2 months ago. Are you even exclusive with each other?
(Do Not ask him, if you don't know the answer. I'm just asking you so I can understand your view of this r. Frankly I don't understand the demands you are putting on him.)
I am also trying really hard to not initiate messages and just respond to him instead. It's making me very anxious.
this^^^ is what I'd ask your IC about. And the fears you mention in this thread. Dig deep and figure out why you are frantically trying to manipulate this guy and placing so much value on HIS reaction to YOU.
HIS reaction is not a reflection on you. He is not the measuring tool by which your value is determined.
For example, he sent me this picture of a thing he is looking for and it's clearly at someone else's house. I said "well did you ask whoever it is where it's from?" He said "yeah they said it's from etc..." and my brain immediately goes to "wait, why 'they'? where were you? are you at some girl's house? why the vagueness?" Clearly I'm having some issues...
I don't think He owes you any details or explanations. He sent you a picture of something he's looking for. So If you see or find that object, let him know.
Otherwise you are sounding like an insecure, jealous, possessive soon to be ex girlfriend.
Nothing else from this^^^ exchange is really your business. (((Calm down KG.)))
you are chasing him away and even though you seem to know this, you do it anyhow.
That's something to look at, isn't it? Cheeseless tunnels big time.
One thing about dating now, as opposed to when I was very young, is that I'm now okay politely saying "No thank you", when invited to something I do not want to do or by a person I do not wish to date.
"I have plans", etc. Whereas in high school, I always felt obligated to give a huge "more important" reason for simply declining an invite. Looking back, I see a sense of entitlement in a lot of men back then, b/c they'd wait for you to explain WHY you did not wish to date their wonderful selves.
I wasted a lot of time caving in to going on 1st dates just to be able to say "we don't have much in common" afterwards.
I could have just saved them money and both of us time by saying, "Oh, that's very nice of you, but no thank you." NO explaining "that weekend is bad for me" so they can return the next weekend to check again.
Let this guy have his freedom. It belongs to him. He's not obligated to anything but courtesy.
When you realize he does not owe you and you do not owe him,
maybe you can enjoy each others' company.
Re: defining what this is, yes, we are exclusive (because that's important to me once sex is in the picture - once it got to that point I tried to keep it simple and said "I'm not OK with sleeping with someone who may be sleeping with other people" and he said "oh, no, of course I'm not, you thought that?"). He made a point to say he deleted his online dating apps. Then he started saying more things that I think have ramped up my expectations/etc. because they mean one thing to me, and maybe something else to him - like when we're out with friends or wherever he'll introduce me as "this is my girlfriend K", so using the word girlfriend, using the word "relationship" frequently, etc. In my mind I start to attach all this meaning to it, and maybe I should not.
Re: defining what this is, yes, we are exclusive (because that's important to me once sex is in the picture - once it got to that point I tried to keep it simple and said "I'm not OK with sleeping with someone who may be sleeping with other people" and he said "oh, no, of course I'm not, you thought that?"). He made a point to say he deleted his online dating apps. Then he started saying more things that I think have ramped up my expectations/etc. because they mean one thing to me, and maybe something else to him -
My advice remains the same.
like when we're out with friends or wherever he'll introduce me as "this is my girlfriend K", so using the word girlfriend, using the word "relationship" frequently, etc.
If he is honest, then My translation is that "girlfriend" means "the woman I date - when I date".
In my mind I start to attach all this meaning to it, and maybe I should not.
((((( ))))) KG, you know you should Not attach all this meaning.
Time & Actions will reveal what it means and the more you push this, the more you push him away or freak him out.
You want him to want more of you, you want him to love you, in essence.
I think You want control, and no healthy r allows for such.
Manipulation will not create that want in him. Nor will your fears/jealousy.
Hmm, I like metaphors, so here is one.
Shoving food on someone's plate, even food they once said they liked a lot, will not make them enjoy it more. Indeed, that might make them sick of it.
Back off. Make plans for tonight and tomorrow night, plans that CAN but do NOT HAVE to, include him.
So you will have fun both nights, regardless of his choices.
In time, if he does not make himself available (and he does NOT have to explain why!)
you will see where you stand. And react in accordance with YOUR goals.
You seem like you want a committed LASTING HEALTHY r.
That might not be possible with this guy at this time in your lives. Be ready to move on.
When what you SEE is not in alignment with what you HEAR, go with the eyes. Actions, not words.
Only when the actions and words (sight and hearing) match, can you define anything with some accuracy.
I'd have acted cavalier that he'd use the term "girlfriend." And I would introduce him as your "date" and nothing more.
Until there is more.
Twice in my life I really liked someone that I wanted to be better friends with. We were all pool players and every time I saw them at a tournament or pool hall I would go hang out and we'd have a good time. I got their numbers and would send them a text or give them a call now and then.
I wasn't getting as much back as I was putting in. I'd send them a funny text and get back an 'lol', and they wouldn't initiate a text. Or not very often. I'd leave them a message and then wouldn't hear back for a while. Then I'd see them at a tournament and they'd act like it was no big deal.
I tried inviting them to go to a few tournaments together and it never quite panned out. They were always non-committal or said they already had travel partners. But they wouldn't invite me.
I finally realized they just weren't friends of mine. They were people I could enjoy when we crossed paths, but they weren't going to be the companions I was looking for.
Later one of them moved to LA. I tried staying in touch by phone for a while but noticed that he didn't initiate many calls back. I also noticed that when he did, he usually needed something. Sales advice. Thoughts on how to practice a certain shot, or how to handle a certain situation in competition. It was always calling me to ask me something.
I did an experiment and quit calling him. Sure enough we started going a year at a time without contact and the last 3 times he called me was when he needed some advice and thought I was the leading expert.
Took me a while K, but I have learned not to project my enthusiasm onto someone else. Just because I enjoy the time we spend together doesn't mean they value it. And they show you that. In the end I don't want to spend time with someone that doesn't value me.
I'd be curious if you quit pursuing how much attention he'd show. If it's not enough then it's not enough.
Oh, as for the whole 'it's a busy time in his life right now', if it's busy now it will ALWAYS be busy. We all have time for our priorities. Granted you are early in your relationship, but you seem to be making him a priority at this stage in your relationship so when he's not doing the same that tells a lot.
Finally, we're all saying the same things. Look, I love Maybell but we are almost polar opposites. When we both agree on something LOOK OUT!
Trying to stick with the program (feels like I'm back in the DBing days...). I've had a cold this week and understandably he didn't want to hang out with me if I was really sick because he did not want to get sick but told me yesterday "we can hang out this weekend if you're feeling better.". I told him this morning I was feeling 100% better! Ball is in his court I guess? Gotta think of possible plans, mostly tonight I just feel like napping and de-stressing via pizza
My years of dating have been a bunch of trial and error, but I learn something new from each guy I date. There was a point where I would rationalize everything. One big thing I learned is if they don't want to be here, then they can go. If I am not getting what I need, then I need to ask for it, and if they can't give it to me, I can't really pretzel myself, because I would be unhappy.
The biggest thing really is deciding what you need. I've been following you for a while and I think you are really wanting someone who will give you lots of time and attention. You did also admit you have a thing with plans and breaking them. You like things planned. Some guys are truly non-committal to that way of dating. They perhaps are not the one from you.
I'll be honest, I get the "needy" vibe at times with you. I recognize it because I gave off that vibe for a while. You really want and need a relationship and that exclusivity and fast. You will know in your gut if that is the situation or the guy you are dating is really love avoidant.
My last guy was the first non-love avoidant guy I dated. It was "only" 3 months, but off the back we spent lots of time together and we were exclusive and used words like boyfriend and girlfriend. He gave me tons of time. He is a firefighter full-time career and owns a landscaping company. When we first met, he worked every 4th day for 24 hours. The rest was free time he spent with me when I could. He went out of his way to come to me. he called and texted every morning and all day long.We went on a week long vacation together and it was amazing. Then landscaping began again. He was very busy, we saw each other less, but we made plans and he actually stuck to them. If he got offered other plans but had made them with me, he would never break plans with me, even if I told him to go for it. (if he was just coming over for dinner when I had D9, I encouraged him to go out, but he chose not to).
Our relationship is over due to some big fundamental difference like his age and him wanting kids. But I will say he was the best boyfriend I ever had.
It was a challenge for ME to make the time with school, kid, and full-time job and me wanting to keep my friendships strong. But I really really cared about him and I made it work. Finding balance in life is a tricky tricky thing.
One thing I do refuse to do is wait around for a guy. I got a full life. You should NOT be waiting around on to see if he will make plans with you. I did that with a guy and it just made me feel kind of crappy.
If you truly want to nap and eat pizza, then do that. If you want to go out with girlfriends, do that. If you want a weekend get away, do that! I imagine you are readily available for any invitation he gives you. Don't be. If you make plans and he decides last minute he wants to see you, DO NOT cancel plans. You will get a good idea of where you stand in life.
Although my last R moved really fast in 3 months, It is good to move slowly. Not give everything all at once. You will find out how into you he truly is with time. But if you find yourself convincing yourself you only need what he is willing to give you, you might want to rethink things.
I would really write down what you absolutely need in a relationship and what things are compromisable. It's helped me a bit.
And tonight I am sitting on my couch in my PJ's watching Netflix. It's just what I need:)
I guess it is all a moot point. I appreciate you explaining your last relationship, Ginger - that is what I would hope for! I got a text tonight that went:
"I don't know about this weekend. Listen K, I think we need re-evaluate this relationship. I've got a ton of stuff to do with the house and X Y and Z. Let's just pick back up in a few weeks if you're still interested."
Mmmm yeah, no. I'm not some inconvenience to put aside and pick back up at his will. He can't find a few hours a week here and there over the next few weeks to sleep over? Or eat a meal together? or where I could go shopping with him for house stuff? Whatever. I said some of these things nicely and then said "You know where to find me. If you are in touch and I'm still around, I expect to not be treated like an inconvenience"
I'm sorry KGirl, he's clearly backing away. I would accept that the R with him is pretty much over...or if not he wants to keep things at a more casual level - which may not be what you want?
Take care, and always remember it is never worth pursuing someone who isn't that into you. You are worth a great deal more than that!
Xx
EVERYTHING THAT GINGER SAID. X10000
It seems clear where I stand with this guy. He can obviously make time for things that are important to him. He spent the last two weekends with his immediate family "just hanging out" to the point where he had no time for me either weekend. And saw his one sister again this past Thursday (but not me at all this week). So obviously I am fairly low on the list of priorities.
It seems clear where I stand with this guy. He can obviously make time for things that are important to him. He spent the last two weekends with his immediate family "just hanging out" to the point where he had no time for me either weekend. And saw his one sister again this past Thursday (but not me at all this week). So obviously I am fairly low on the list of priorities.
I'm very sorry this happened. But yes, the reality is, you are low on his list of priorities. His family and his home are coming first right now. But that is in no way a reflection of YOU. It is just really where he is in life right now. And that is not what you want, so he is not for you.
Another one of antecdotes. My BF before the last one was long distance. I did all the driving, I went to him. His work always came first and he came first too. he claimed to love me, but it was only when I took the 3 hour drive to see him and I was THERE. I told him I needed to see more effort and he wouldn't give it. So, it was over. This guy was automatically in an R with a new girl right away and they have been together for over a year. She's right there available for him. I know it is not what I wanted in my life. I don't want something to be a convenient accesspry around that molds into someone elses lifestyle. This guy, BTW, will still say to this day, I was the best R he ever had. Only the best R he ever had isn't a priority for him.
When you have someone truly ready, you'll know it.
To top it off, after wanting to take a break for a few weeks because he's so busy with house and bachelor party planning...he posted a picture on social media of him and his family at lunch today. So it's pretty clear he can make time amongst all his "busyness" for the right people. Particularly after he had originally said he had nothing going on this weekend so we could hang out, before he got so overwhelmed with "busyness". Maybe I'm overreacting and family is important etc but I don't think I'm getting the real reason/he's that into me in this case.
Are you interested in a relationship where you don't have to chase or wonder if he's into you? Why are you spending anymore time on him? He made himself clear.
I work in a profession where if you get anything other than an enthusiastic yes you're hearing no. People say no in all kinds of ways. They say yes and then ghost you. They say call me back in a few weeks. They say busy right now, call me in an hour and then they let the call go to voicemail. They try to sound like yes when they really mean no. No is easier to hear but harder to say.
If you aren't hearing an enthusiastic yes, keep looking. While you're looking, make yourself happy!!! You've only got this one life. Is this really how you want to spend it? Waiting around for some guy to say yes to you?
K-girl,
I'm sorry. You've gotten sage advice. I echo what other folks say that his behavior is not a reflection of you. Again, I'm not a fan of hoop jumping and I say take everything people say with a grain of salt. I believe that most men and women are very honest in the moment with their feelings. However, time reveals everything. If you're anxious about whether or not you were going to see him, then something is amiss. Live your life. I'm with G and Maybell. If you want to sit on the couch and watch the ID network and eat chips, then by all means do it. We are only going around once on this planet and I'm not a fan of trying to convince or cajole people that we are worth their time. It's an epic waste of energy.
I promise that when someone is really into you you will know it. Hugs.
At least I have my divorce/break-up/etc. routine down pat. Give myself a few days to mope. Lose some weight in the process (unexpected benefit?) Write an angry letter. Make a list of all the things I didn't like about that person to remind myself. Go no contact. Unfollow on social media. Etc. I think the cruelest part of this was dangling the "Let's just pick it back up after a few weeks if you're still interested." How disrespectful. There would be a million better ways to word that, like "I'm really busy with XYZ and very overwhelmed. I promise that I'll be all-in on X date and will totally make it up to you with ABC, if you're willing to wait for me." But that's what a respectful, caring, decent person would do.
Sorry K.
I am constantly surprised at how the world works where people can go from being a part of your life to *boop* gone. Like now we're hanging out, talking, spending time together, laughing, then suddenly we just say 'meh, time for something else, this isn't super convenient anymore' and they just pull the plug. It's almost like it isn't real.
Apparently this isn't anything new. In one of the greatest movies ever, The Hustler, Piper Laurie says this to Paul Newman after he takes off:
I made you up, didn't I?
You weren't real.
I made you up like everything else.
There was no car crash, Eddie. When I was young I had polio. The rich old man is my father. He walked out on us. He sends me a check every month. That's how he buys his way out of my life.
The men I've known...after they left, I'd say they weren't real. I made them up.
I wanted you to be real.
That's why I think divorce is so criminal. It was supposed to be a relationship where two people decide that they aren't going to just disappear. But then I think of another quote from "O Brother Where Art Thou?" when they're singing 'I am a Man of Constant Sorrow':
Maybe your friends think I'm just a stranger
My face, you'll never see no more
But there is one promise that is given
I'll meet you on God's golden shore
Glad you're here K. Hang in.
Do I bother thinking about what I would need/want if he were to want to "pick back up after a few weeks" (I'm not really sure if he actually meant this, or if it's a way to ghost me without confrontation) or is that a futile exercise? Or something to worry about when/if it actually happens? I know I cannot accept the same treatment that I was receiving if that were to happen, he would need to show respect/care/effort/interest. I'm not sure exactly what that would need to look like yet, though.
Think about your minimum required standards for ANY relationship. If this guy comes back, those minimum standards apply to him too.
He might come back, or not, it depends on how lazy he is. But your minimum standards are for you, not for the guy. What do you want and need to be happy?
K-girl,
I'm with my girl Maybell. But maybe think about it this way, what is it that you like so much about this guy? I'm sure he's a nice human being but even if it picks bank up, I have a feeling things work still be on his terms. Like Maybell said, what's important to you? It's not about what he can give, it's more about what you want. And if he can't give what you want, then it's all pretty moot. I wouldn't wait for anything. Wish him well and yourself better.
Forgive me if I am out of bounds here, or if I am projecting, but I think I see a little of myself here. PLease forgive me if I am wrong.
I think you may want a relationship badly.. The hardest part of letting go of someone is letting go of what we thought could have been. I know there are guys I have done that to. Heck, my exH was one of them. I didn't want to be alone. I wanted A (not the, but A relationship so badly). I can see that in hindsight now and I ask myself in each R if the relationship I have is the one I really want in the present. Or if I just like the idea of being in one and being alone again is something I dread.
Being that I am 3 months post coming out of a 3 month R, I can't say the only two months thing makes your R any easier to move on from. But how close were the two of you? How much did you really like HIM and the R the two of you had? I know for me I let my guy in some very deep parts of my life no one ever got into. I know he was a great boyfriend and I loved being with him. I loved how he taught my daughter how to ride a two-wheeler and he played hop scotch with her. That we would sit on my couch and just talk for hours. I know I miss him and what we had more than the fact it was so great to have a boyfriend.
That's why Georgiabelle brings up the best question. What did you like so much that you would want to entertain him in the future when he decides he might have some time to fit you in?
My point is two-fold. Is he someone you really truly miss, or is it having someone you really truly miss?
For me, it is both.
What is it that you got to know about him that you would want him back if he were to come back? Or do you just not want to be alone?
Do I bother thinking about what I would need/want if he were to want to "pick back up after a few weeks"
IMO, no. He is about as politely clear as he can be. Maybe you should accept his words at face value, graciously and cross him off your list.
IF he wants to "pick back up" someday, cross that bridge then...
(I'm not really sure if he actually meant this, or if it's a way to ghost me without confrontation) or is that a futile exercise?
1) it is a futile exercise. There is no "good" answer that will comfort you in this^^ scenario.
and
2) I cannot imagine a way in which he could be clearer without sounding mean.
"K, I'm just not that into you" and besides, you are making him a priority, which is flattering.
But I think to him, you are an option. Maybe he's that way with all women now, or always, or maybe it's that he does not think you guys are a good fit.
What would he need to say for you to believe ^^^this? I'm asking.
Or something to worry about when/if it actually happens?
for sure not something to "worry" about now.
I know I cannot accept the same treatment that I was receiving if that were to happen, he would need to show respect/care/effort/interest. I'm not sure exactly what that would need to look like yet, though.
You said He wasn't showing or giving you what you needed/wanted. Then he ended things with a slightly ambiguous summary...
I'm sorry but I've learned that -
None of us should stay or want to be in a r based on the potential in the person.
I don't know. I don't get it at all. Maybe it's because I'm fixating too much on the things I see as promising and not the negative things. Like why offer to bring me "whatever you need" earlier in the week when I was sick? And why tell me about his plans to buy carpet and other mundane things if he isn't that interested? And why not just say "I just don't feel the same way about you" which is how he broke up with his last girlfriend? He's obviously capable of saying what he thinks. But yes, maybe it comes down to point in life and regardless of level of interest in me in particular, he does not have the capability/energy/interest in sustaining a relationship right now. Which is hard because...cutesy quotes on the internet say "if it's the right person you'll make time for them."
I have a list I made of things that I would need in a person inbetween R's. Looking back some of them are really more wish-list than need ("likes to read" - meh) but others are much more important. This guy had all of them besides "follow through on what he says and does." I guess I chalked it up to him being preoccupied with other things and that maybe as we grew closer/I became more important, he would be more dependable (like he is with his work which he clearly values) but yes, maybe he will always be like that and I need to either accept or decide I cannot deal with it. As you said, I was betting on potential and not what was in front of me.
K,
I don't know if everyone feels this way (and excuse all of my typos. I have been in the car for seven hours and monsoon rains. I left my a state ago:-) but I think people can care or do nice things for you but it still doesn't mean that they want to be in a relationship with you. I understand that that can be confusing and I don't want to sound harsh. If someone doesn't want to make you a priority doesn't mean that they are a deplorable person. It just means they aren't relationship material for you. And that's who we are focusing on because you are a fantastic lady!
Ginger and 25 make some interesting points. And sometimes when you write you remind me of a friend. She is a lovely lady. She's about to be 40 and she wants to get married and have a child. She dated a man off and on for eight years. Mostly off. I do think he cared for her but it was very clear to me that he did not feel the same way about her as she did him.
After the last breakup where she said she wanted to get married and have a child, she convinced herself that he could not give up all that they had. And after a year of not hearing from him, she reached out to him and I genuinely felt bad for both of them when he responded. He told her that he did not want to waste anymore of her time and that he did not want those things. And that he wished her well. I want to be clear that my friend is not crazy. But because she wanted it so much, she convinced herself that he was a fool to let it get away. And I tried to tell her that it didn't mean the same to him because he didn't value it the way she did. And I genuinely do you think he cared about her and wanted her to find what she was looking for but he was not going to do that. She spent another 2 years wondering what she would do when he came back. This is a lovely, smart, caring woman who simply struggled with the one she thought was the one, did not feel the same. And please know I'm not saying you are delusional. I'm acknowledging that some things are easier said than done. I also believe that sometimes people say things in the moment and feelings can change-especially when something is new. Again, his behavior is not a reflection of you but rather him.
I know dating is difficult. However, there are so many wonderful people out there. You just have to find your fit. Gosh I sound preachy! Hang in there.
Oh, and I had a mega crush on this guy. My friends didn't think he was much to look at but I thought he was hawt! He looked like he could change a carburetor:-)
Anyway, whenever my best friend would see him he would always ask her about me. He would say my name over and over and over again when I was around him. He did this so much that other people asked me how I knew him. Other people would tell me that he was checking me out Without me ever saying a word about having a thing for him. So, I took that as he must be at least interested in playing tonsil hockey with me. I was wrong. But all those signs looked like a yes and yet I was still wrong. Sigh. And by very fragile ego felt like it had been shattered into 1 billion pieces.
I gorilla glued it back together. Hang in there!
I don't know. I don't get it at all. Maybe it's because I'm fixating too much on the things I see as promising and not the negative things.
YES THIS^^^^^^^^^
Like why offer to bring me "whatever you need" earlier in the week when I was sick?
did you take him up on his offer??
And why tell me about his plans to buy carpet and other mundane things if he isn't that interested?
Wow I don't see this^^ topic as the same thing at all.
I just see this as him making mundane conversation. He may have been bored and just talked about his latest task of the day....It's Not showing interest,it's the opposite imo.
To me, being "that interested" is asking you about YOUR day and getting to know your opinions on current events or art or kids, etc OR being interesting and not mundane. IF he asked your opinion and brought you,,to me that shows a basic comfort level but not real EFFORT...did he plan out dates well?
And why not just say "I just don't feel the same way about you" which is how he broke up with his last girlfriend?
he said almost the same thing to you, didn't he? I would think he'd vary the exact wording since he knows you know it
He's obviously capable of saying what he thinks.
And he did say what he thinks...honey, he said he doesn't want to see you now. He said "MAYBE" later on he will call you if if if blah blah blah.
IF IF IF he calls, he calls. There is nothing dignified for you to do but move on. Honestly, there are not many options here.
But yes, maybe it comes down to point in life and regardless of level of interest in me in particular, he does not have the capability/energy/interest in sustaining a relationship right now. Which is hard because...cutesy quotes on the internet say "if it's the right person you'll make time for them."
we cannot get our wisdom from cutesy quotes. If you want to,
use the "if you love something, set it free...---if it's meant to be, he'll return and if not, you never really had it at all."
I don't know that I buy this one^^ but I see it in a lot of women's bathrooms
I have a list I made of things that I would need in a person inbetween R's. Looking back some of them are really more wish-list than need ("likes to read" - meh) but others are much more important. This guy had all of them besides "follow through on what he says and does."
that is called being unreliable, and worse...it's not a small character defect, but that is what it is.
I guess I chalked it up to him being preoccupied with other things and that maybe as we grew closer/I became more important, he would be more dependable (like he is with his work which he clearly values) but yes, maybe he will always be like that and I need to either accept or decide I cannot deal with it. As you said, I was betting on potential and not what was in front of me.
Yes. I was on "hopium" that my h would return to who h had been many years earlier and that I thought he'd be again. He lied convincingly often. I bet a lot of years on
potential and he had been such an involved father when the kids were little.
And sure, he'd feed me kibbles (a week of attention on a trip, a gift, etc) enough to hold me from leaving,
until it was too much in my face, and too little in my bank account - he took ALL the joint account money...and still has not given me my half.
Furious at ME for wanting spousal support and blah blah blah
KGirl, if you were my d, I'd take you to dinner and urge you to RUN FAST from this guy b/c he's not good news for your heart.
Period. I'm sorry
Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. I probably need everyone to tell me the same thing over and over before I get it through my thick skull. Yes, I do think I want a relationship pretty badly (I would say that/getting married again and having it stick is one of my top priorities in life right now - my job is relatively low-key so it makes it easy to not prioritize that!) Whether that's OK or not, I don't know. It does make it hard to let go once I've actually got someone that shows even a remote bit of interest. I also struggle with people saying things they may mean in the moment but don't really follow through on. I'm very careful about what I say/promise, so when someone says "I should get you X for Christmas" or mentions bringing me to a Packers game in September, I believe they actually mean that and that there is long-term potential. I do not say things like that since I don't know what will happen (maybe I'd bring up Christmas like three weeks before Christmas! ha). But once I say something, I mean it, and I'll follow through no matter what. Doesn't seem to be a quality I can easily find in others (except for some of my friends).
Re: taking him up on his offer, I asked him to call me on his way home from work just so we could talk on the phone, catch up, etc. I didn't need any actual items - are you asking because maybe I made him feel rejected or something by not? Who knows if he would have, later in the week when we had talked about getting together he said "umm I'm sorry but I really don't want to get sick so let's not, but we can get together on the weekend if you're feeling better" and that's the weekend when sh*t hit the fan and I got the "I just don't know about this weekend, I've got all this stuff, let's just pick it back up in a couple of weeks if you're still interested." Ha, the carpet... one of my friends said "why on earth would he tell about something like that if he didn't see you as part of his life/someone he wants to communicate with??" but as you said, may be just basic comfort level but not real effort. No, he did not plan dates well/at all really, it was nearly always me initiating or coming up with something. He actually cancelled on our second date because he had to work late, and I ended up being the one two days later to ask about rescheduling instead of him asking right away.... perhaps I should have taken that as a sign then. I can think of a few times where he did suggest someplace to go but a lot of those were things he was doing with friends anyway and I was just invited along, not just the two of us. I was the one who would say "let's go to this restaurant" or "let's go try this thing or visit this place."
Was thinking about scheduling an IC appointment today but I don't know. It's expensive because I have high deductible health insurance ($150+ a visit) and it's hard to justify the cost. Also I feel like I know how the conversation will go anyways because if I was counseling someone (I have a master's degree in social work and my job is a form of counseling, just for college students) I know what I would be telling them:
K: explains story, cries, etc.
counselor: So whether he is interested but doesn't have time right now, or whether he's not that interested, the outcome is the same, right? And knowing what the reason is doesn't change what you would do, because there is nothing you can do/you have no control over this regardless. All you can do is move on and go about your life.
I guess what would really be worth digging into (but probably take so long I'd blow thousands of dollars to get there) is the whole "why do I ignore my boundaries and deal breakers and get attracted to/try to pursue people that don't meet my needs and make me so stressed? What is so attractive about the unavailability/avoidant people?"
On a positive note, just got back from a three day vacation with some girlfriends at a house one of them just bought on a lake. Fun few days of floating on the river, hitting up a waterpark in Wisconsin Dells, and an awful lot of pizza at Pizza Ranch. It was good to get out and do stuff but hard at times to be present and in the moment. And I got a mailer today from a nearby casino saying they missed me and offering me a free night at their resort hotel so I think that sounds like an excellent one night getaway idea in the near future
well, I can pass on some advice from my therapist to you for free.
At this point in my life it is not about finding ANY partner. It's about finding the RIGHT partner. I guess what I have on my side is my biological clock is not ticking. But I don't want to try to make someone who isn't the right fit, the right fit. Because you can't make that happen. I would rather have no one than the wrong lifelong partner. Unfortunatley I've got to kiss few frogs first. I went on a few dates with this guy I met online back in November. He was OK. Good looking, single dad. But he was kind of perverted and had a different idea of dating than I did. He was a plan maker which was good, but didn't know the first thing about romance. He kept trying, I kept trying, but it wasn't what I wanted. I told him as much. I could have "had: him. I didn't want him. I was not that into him! He was not a good fit for me.
I was telling my IC last night how frustrating and lonely things could be for me. She told me I simply haven't found the right one yet. ANd I haven't. Every guy I have dated so far hasn't been the right one for one reason or another. But I'll know when he is right. I used to try to make people the "right one" for the sake of not being alone. It really blew up in my face.
So instead of focusing on getting married again, why don't you focus on the in between. Building your own life like you did with your weekend getaway. Date and look for what you want in a man, not just the end result, being marriage.
Maybe he made plans in the future because he thought maybe it would work and you were the right fit for him. But maybe he decided you weren't, Not because there is something wring with you, but simply because you don't have the same priorities and values in an R. People also say things and they are just words. Yeah, I've thought out loud about things that would be fun with a guy I dated in the future, but I never knew how far we would make it. This summer my exFF and I were going to bring my D9 to his parents condo in Hilton Head and ride bikes. That's why he taught her how to finally ride a bike. I believe he wanted to that if we stayed together. But sometimes the future takes a different turn.
I used to think if I was that great, a man would change everything he wanted for me. It doesn't work that way. He could have been interested, but his priorties aren't where you need them to be. And that's ok. Don't change what you want to fit into what works for him.
The right fit will come along. I promise
Wisconsin Dells? Do you live in (or near) wisconsin?
Yep, about an hour away! Staying overnight at ho-chunk and lazing around in the pool is sounding more and more appealing, even if it's by myself
Quite a few of us in WI...
I'll be up in the Dells in October for a concert. Fond memories of my youth...
I knew you were near Madison trumpet but didn't know kgirl was in the state as well! I'm near Milwaukee but travel all over the place with different bands - Fond du Lac tomorrow.
Yay for WI! Although sometimes I am tempted to throw it all away and pack up and move to Las Vegas. Not dealing with snow sounds nice
I gave myself a week to mope about the likely XBF, I think today is the day I need to pick myself back up and do things (like useful things - as opposed to binge watching TV and drinking with friends, etc.) There is a live butterfly exhibit thing in town that closes tomorrow so I'm going to hit that up - what more could you want than to be surrounded by swarms of butterflies? I tried to make an IC appt but the earliest they have available is September 11 O_o I booked it but we'll see if it's necessary by then.
I would really like to move on with my life and start fresh and pretend this XBF does not exist... but things keep getting in the way. Last time I was at his place (where he introduced me as his girlfriend! and talked about the future! what the heck!) I accidentally left an expensive piece of jewelry there. Didn't think anything of it since I didn't know he was going to break up with me/"take a break" before I'd see him next. Immediately after this happened I told him I'd give his # to a friend to connect and arrange to get it back. Said friend texted him, friend said he'd meet XBF wherever or pick it up from his house (they only live 10 minutes from each other). XBF decides he is going to mail it to me instead (??). He told me this last week Monday. It still hasn't come. It's making me anxious every day wondering if it is going to be in the mail, if I will ever see it again, etc. I finally sent a "were you able to get that necklace in the mail?" message today and just the act of doing that sent me into an anxiety mess. I'm worried that once he moves (which is happening before the end of the month) it's going to be lost forever.
To add to that, one of XBF's friends texted me on Monday asking if I would like to come to a game night... that he and other XBF friends... are planning for labor day weekend. I asked if he had talked to XBF lately, he said "yep, I did last week, the rest of us decided we wanted to move forward anyway... too weird?" What? Why would a group of people who I have met exactly twice want to invite me to something? I explained "So he told you [what transpired] then?" I think perhaps he did not explain well to his friends. Friend said "I'm sorry, blah blah blah, he does tend to just make his own schedule so we decided to go ahead and make plans without him." Very confused. I just didn't answer but I see no reason to hang out with these people if I'm not in XBF's life. All in all still hanging over my head, making it difficult. I may need to contact all contact w/ the friends and call the jewelry a lost cause but I'm pissed that he seems to have all the power here.
Hey, you met his friends twice and they want to keep you over him? That's an awfully nice compliment!
^ Ha, right? It's either that... or one of them is trying to get with me now that XBF is out of the picture (I heard a lot about how the friends thought I was "really cool" etc.), or, he told them something different than what my interpretation was of what happened (like "we're taking a pause" or some BS).
I don't understand you.
You have the opportunity to make new friends with people who interested in knowing you FOR YOURSELF. Why would you worry at all about their motives, whether it's weird about the guy you were seeing, whatever? It's a GAL opportunity. If you like them, join them. If you don't, don't worry about it.
You are so far in your own head you can't even move. And I say this as a chronic overthinker. Relax and LIVE. If you keep questioning every road offered to you you're never going to GET anywhere.
^ Ha, right? It's either that... or one of them is trying to get with me now that XBF is out of the picture (I heard a lot about how the friends thought I was "really cool" etc.),
if one of them was appealing to you & wants to date you, you'll know. Then you can decide.
If not, they are just looking for another game player. It's obviously not a bad thing to get an invite.
If you feel that you'll overthink the whole evening, (which I fear), then don't go. Thank them and say you already have plans that night. No need to explain. No need to worry about it.
or, he told them something different than what my interpretation was of what happened (like "we're taking a pause" or some BS).
well, what difference does that make? I'm asking.
Take the guy you dated out of the equation and ask yourself if you'd enjoy the evening.
Can you detach, or will you probe for info or be pre-occupied?
Add the guy back in, and ask yourself if you'd really feel relaxed in the environment. And I assume there will be some alcohol so take that into consideration.
And is there a chance the guy you dated will show up? What if he brings a date?
Yeah, see, even if you are assured he won't be there, I think it'll be hard for you to have fun that night. Why not tell them you have plans and that you wold love to do it next time.
Then give yourself that time to detach.
Hang in there.
.
PS I agree with Maybell's take on it.
I'm just concerned that if you go, you won't be relaxed or detached, and you might start asking questions that won't increase your confidence.
You don't want to arrive there only to use a microscope for all the comments that are normally made. Someone will bring up his name around you, and it's important that you present as a fun loving confident woman.
It might be too soon for you.
Kgirl,
In regards to why the friends may have invited you, maybe they thought you were fun. Most of the guys I've dated have friends who invited me to things post break up. Sometimes I went. And sometimes I didn't. However, when I'm not with someone, I go under the premise we are done. I'm done. However, I wish them well and that is why I have no problem going. Same with why I went to dinner with X Mr.GB. No ulterior motives. However, I get the impression that you may be *waiting* for this guy you dated to give you some kind of response (and I don't think he is but what do I know?) so I recommend you not go. I think you will be reading into things and trying to figure out what's going on with the guy when I think it's rather clear. I don't think you are detached enough.
Sorry about the jewelry. I'm not sure if it had sentimental value but hopefully you get it back.
Hang in there and have some fun!
Thanks, all. Yes, I agree I am not detached enough/would be looking for info/would definitely not be able to handle it if he did show up as well, so I don't think I can go. I'm not exactly in the need for more male friends, particularly ones that live an hour or more away, so I'm not sure this is where I would want to spend my relationship-building energy. Maybe if we had all really become friends it would be different but most of them I met once at XBF's birthday party for a few hours.
My friends IRL were feeling like XBF's communications with me indicated that he did indeed think I was waiting around for him and that he could just pick up when/if he felt like it, so I decided to clarify things and sent a: "To be clear, I am not waiting around for you, and will be seeing other people. If your circumstances/situation changes you're welcome to get in touch, but I make no guarantees." His response was: "Thanks for letting me know, I hope you find happiness." *Shrug* so OK, that was helpful because it put me out of the sort of denial phase of "well maybe he'll still come back, he said maybe in a few weeks?" to the "OK, yep, definitely time to put him out of sight/mind" phase. And with the friends thing, that's the other reason I can't do it - the only way I've found to be able to get over people is if I completely cut all contact/social media/etc. with them, otherwise I keep holding out hope for them (probably because in all of the situations they've been the ones dumping me/I still wanted the R). Still working on internalizing that this guy was NOT behaving in a way that would have been sustainable, and certainly not in the way that I've written down are my must-have needs (staying in touch and filling me on his life; dependable, reliable, follows through on what he says, does what he says he'll do). Need to work on thinking of this as a reprieve instead of a rejection. And in fact, ultimately I set my boundary and rejected his crappy behavior, I guess, by moving on and not sitting on my hands waiting for him to change his mind about me?
Leaving in a bit to see if I can catch any of this eclipse business with a colleague who managed to nab eclipse glasses (though it's quite cloudy here!) and then headed for my free casino hotel overnight stay. I really have no plans besides... gambling? pool/hot tub time? relax on the balcony with a book? bring a bottle of champagne? Go to the fancy supper club nearby (maybe too much to eat at a table alone for a 3 course meal, but I could sit at the bar with an old fashioned and an app?) Whatever I feel like, I guess!
I also bought a bike Sunday in-between when I sent the "not waiting" message and getting a response so when I'm feeling down, I'm trying to think about that and how fun it will be to zoom around and explore new places. My city is very bike-friendly but I've just never gotten around to it...XBF/whatever this guy was kept encouraging me to get a bike so we could ride together. Welp, too late and too bad for him I guess!
[quote=KGirl]Thanks, all. Yes, I agree I am not detached enough/would be looking for info/would definitely not be able to handle it if he did show up as well, so I don't think I can go. I'm not exactly in the need for more male friends, particularly ones that live an hour or more away,
Whoah, an hour away? Oh, no way on a weekend night?...God no...so I'm not sure this is where I would want to spend my relationship-building energy. Maybe if we had all really become friends it would be different but
most of them I met once at XBF's birthday party for a few hours.
unless you need new people in your life, and live in a small town, this^^ seems really labor intensive for people you only met once.My friends IRL were feeling like XBF's communications with me indicated that he did indeed think I was waiting around for him and that he could just pick up when/if he felt like it,
so I decided to clarify things and sent a: "To be clear, I am not waiting around for you, and will be seeing other people. If your circumstances/situation changes you're welcome to get in touch, but I make no guarantees."
oh man, I wish you had asked around for advice on this.^^ Sending him a message to say you are not going to wait around, just undermines the message itself.
Do you get what I mean? His response was: "Thanks for letting me know, I hope you find happiness." *Shrug* so OK, that was helpful because it put me out of the sort of denial phase of "well maybe he'll still come back, he said maybe in a few weeks?"
to the "OK, yep, definitely time to put him out of sight/mind" phase.
well if it helps you move on, then that's a silver lining. Use it for doing that. And with the friends thing, that's the other reason I can't do it - the only way I've found to be able to get over people is if I completely cut all contact/social media/etc. with them, otherwise I keep holding out hope for them
(probably because in all of the situations they've been the ones dumping me/I still wanted the R).
so would it be fair to infer that either your "picker" of men has you picking men who are not really available OR you push them too much and scare them off?
Any chance you can bring that up with your IC? BTW, sidetone - I have gone to T every few years for tune ups or "major overhauls" in my life. When my dad died, when my mom died, when h had his first Alaskan obsession and now...etc.
I have had to shop around a bit b/c I am not a patient who wants the T to merely listen and validate. I want guidance or insights and their help in figuring out what I need to DO or see differently. I have liked or loved all of them but some were/are more helpful than others. Right now I have the best T I have ever had, and she was referred to me by a friend who is a T and knows me. Incredibly helpful and I feel better and am DOING more with my life than I would have otherwise.
I can't recall if you said you have a T now or will get one. But it's so useful when you need new tools.Still working on internalizing that this guy was NOT behaving in a way that would have been sustainable, and certainly not in the way that I've written down are my must-have needs (staying in touch and filling me on his life; dependable, reliable, follows through on what he says, does what he says he'll do).
This ^^ guy is missing almost every one of your deal breakers. You are hurt now but if you had spent a year of your life with him only to be here anyhow, isn't it better to know now? I honestly don't get the appeal of this r. Sorry.
Where the head goes, the heart will follow...if you let it.
What was your parents m like? And what type of R do you have with your dad?
Need to work on thinking of this as a reprieve instead of a rejection.
Yes you dodged a bullet. Maybe when you have a healthy r you will see this more clearly.Leaving in a bit to see if I can catch any of this eclipse business with a colleague who managed to nab eclipse glasses (though it's quite cloudy here!) and then headed for my free casino hotel overnight stay. I really have no plans besides... gambling? pool/hot tub time? relax on the balcony with a book? bring a bottle of champagne? Go to the fancy supper club nearby (maybe too much to eat at a table alone for a 3 course meal, but I could sit at the bar with an old fashioned and an app?) Whatever I feel like, I guess!
I'm still funny about eating full meals on my own but I'm a different generation AND really, I need to work on this! Why should we feel weird about it? Women travel and women eat, (OMG even without someone else!!)
I bring my Nook and headphones in case I choose to watch a video . If you Sit at the bar, you may tend to attract attention BUT hey, maybe you want that?
Enjoy what you have been given, = TIME and FREEDOM. They are not endless. I'm living alone for the first time in my life (no offense to my dog). I swear to God, I LIKE IT.
Who knew? I've raised 3 kids and sometimes I cannot see marrying again. I like men and envision having romance in my life again, but at this time, marriage is not as needed as it once was.
Someday you will be married, and these jaunts won't come often. ENJOY yourself !
I also bought a bike Sunday in-between when I sent the "not waiting" message and getting a response so when I'm feeling down, I'm trying to think about that and how fun it will be to zoom around and explore new places.
Your life is going to improve and I can't wait to hear about what you create.
I see what you mean about not needing to declare I'm not waiting around. Since things were left a bit up in the air, I felt sort of dishonest/not right reactivating my online dating sites, talking to people, etc. without letting him know that's what I was doing. For all I know he still thought we'd pick back up in a few weeks once he got his life organized *shrug*.
I'm not sure if it's "bad picking" or scaring them, but I'm leaning towards "bad picking". With this last guy, he kept saying he was worried that he couldn't offer me what I needed and I thought I was being reassuring and not to pressure-y or clingy, saying that I had no problem seeing each other once a week or so, I didn't need anything more than that, etc. But perhaps for this particular guy any sort of need to think about someone else's emotions/feelings/consider them was too much pressure and scary. I mean, he did tell me on our first date "a complaint I've had from GFs is that I'm too selfish with my time... but I play way less video games now.. and my family says that means I just haven't found the right person that I'm willing to make the time for!".... The guy before this last guy, ended up moving back to his home state to be closer to his family. When I met him he was still in the midst of what was apparently a very stressful divorce (losing hair, anti-anxiety medication, etc.) and it was finalized a month after we started dating. The next month he said he didn't know anyone in our state/city except me and he just really needed to be around his family and have their support. So I think that's also a case of bad-picking (someone who is not in the right mindframe or stage to look for a serious R) rather than scaring them.
So yes, I should have listened then. Why didn't I despite having an inkling that he was going to have some deal breakers? Attraction, I guess. His personality/sense of humor was what I was looking for (after meeting lots of people that were what I felt was "boring"), he seemed to have his life together in other ways and was successful (job, done with school, no debt, buying a house, etc.), and I felt really comfortable around him - like I could be myself. I enjoyed spending time with him. I guess I let my heart run that one and ignored my head/logic. I distinctly remember after date 2 or 3 telling a friend "ooof, I'm in trouble. I'm totally falling for this guy but I feel like maybe it's a bad idea" and trying to persuade myself that some minor personality differences ("he just goes with the flow more!") weren't that big of a deal... in actuality they manifested themselves into super flakyness/lack of ability to show or demonstrate care or interest in me/inability to follow through or take initiative/just ran away when life got overwhelming.
My friends say I need to give the "boring" people more of a chance and go on more dates with them and realize that perhaps the "boring" ones will provide the stability, communication, etc. that I need. Maybe, but why do I have to compromise? Can't there be someone interesting and fun and attractive and chemistry and ALSO stability and communication and emotional availability??
I made an appointment with my IC but I couldn't get in until Sept. 11. We've talked about how I'm looking for guidance and "things to do" moreso than just active listening (having gone through a social work program I am familiar with it all) and she was pretty responsive too that. I just need to be efficient and make the most of the time so that it doesn't take 5 or 10 appts to get anywhere, it's expensive!
Yikes, parent's M. They're still married although growing up I was always certain they'd get D'ed at one point or another, I think they are still together for convenience (they sleep in separate rooms). My mom was/is somewhat of a hoarder, tends to spend a lot of money, gets very dramatic and emotional about things. My dad has OCD and is very stingy, and growing up it was constant fighting about one thing or another. To the point where on school nights I'd sometimes crack my head out of my room and yell "CAN YOU PLEASE STOP SO I CAN GET SOME SLEEP?" I really couldn't wait to be out of there and try to limit my time with them all together. I saw my mom last weekend but the last time I saw my dad was Mother's Day, and my parents live only an hour away. My dad also issues with "sex addiction"/runs an AA-type therapy group in my hometown (which has also caused issues because in a small town you're not really that anonymous) and I've found it's best just to disengage. Our last difficult interaction was him leaving me a voicemail on my phone after an IC appt, saying he was sorry if he was a bad father and he felt like he didn't do a good job, and he wondered why I didn't ask him to walk me down the aisle at my wedding? Which made no sense because both he AND my mom walked me down together so I honestly think he got confused with my sister (who had no one walk her down) and then I couldn't even take any of it seriously. So yeah, there are issues there, which made it all the harder when XBF would see his parents once or twice a week but couldn't make time for me. I never brought it up to him or mentioned it but I didn't/don't understand why he couldn't have been more flexible on that and made time for me but maybe that's because his family dynamic is so different, that I'd never understand it - I would have no problem telling my family I had other things I needed to do or people I needed to spend time with if they were becoming too much.
To just top things all off, this guy was supposed to mail back this necklace (and refused to meet my friends or have someone come get it), right? So I get a postcard in the mail today. It's a postage due notice. He didn't put enough postage on it. He put 3 stamps on like a bubble envelope package and thought that would work. I had to go to the post office and pay to get my own things back. SERIOUSLY. I cannot even comprehend how thoughtless people can be. Then one of his friends mentioned they were all invited to his new house Saturday. So much for being too busy to make time for people/a relationship. It was all a lie (but I know you all knew that anyway... I just needed to get it through my head).
I'm not sure if it's "bad picking" or scaring them, but I'm leaning towards "bad picking". With this last guy, he kept saying he was worried that he couldn't offer me what I needed and I thought I was being reassuring and not to pressure-y or clingy, saying that I had no problem seeing each other once a week or so, I didn't need anything more than that, etc. But perhaps for this particular guy any sort of need to think about someone else's emotions/feelings/consider them was too much pressure and scary. I mean, he did tell me on our first date "a complaint I've had from GFs is that I'm too selfish with my time... but I play way less video games now.. and my family says that means I just haven't found the right person that I'm willing to make the time for!".... The guy before this last guy, ended up moving back to his home state to be closer to his family. When I met him he was still in the midst of what was apparently a very stressful divorce (losing hair, anti-anxiety medication, etc.) and it was finalized a month after we started dating.
Is it possible that you're picking a string of unavailables because you don't actually want a relationship so much as something to do?
I guess that's possible on some subconscious level that I'm not realizing, or that I'm actually ambivalent. In my conscious thoughts though I reaaally want a committed relationship and all the benefits that come with it. I think I have enough other things to do that it's not a boredom thing, and it can in fact be significantly more work/there are not so fun things about relationships (like having to keep my apt clean-ish!) but I'm willing to do them because I know the trade-off of having that sort of relationship in my life will be worth it.
K,
I'm sorry but at least you got the jewelry. Just a guess here...I'm not sure I buy the not wanting a relationship. I think you may be facing what many people go thru. Sometimes we want people who don't want the same things we do or they don't want them with us. Regardless, it's a waste of energy and makes us feel rejected even though that's not technically the case.
I think the key is going for people that want the same things we do. And if their actions don't align, then they probably aren't "in" it. Why continue to waste your time with someone who isn't giving you what you want?
Hang in there, K!
Every time I get those rejected feelings, I'm trying to remind myself that what he's actually rejected is not ME, but: having to think, having to care, having to make effort, and having to recognize someone's needs other than his own. And ultimately I have rejected him stepping all over me by not putting up with this "being put on hold" nonsense. Hopefully it works...
I think you do want a relationship. Probably so badly, that you hope the wrong person will become the right one.
I've been guilty of it.
I think his whole putting the relationship on hold thing and not having the time thing was a chicken [censored] tactic of ending things. The truth is, he has the time for things he prioritizes, and he just couldn't end it the way a man should. He had no intention of picking things back up eventually. I hate to say it, but I wanted to, because I know you kind of clung to that so tightly.
My last guy gave me some BS of wanting to be friends so badly, and if we were are meant to be in the future we will be, and if he was wrong about this, he hopes I will forgive him someday. It was a bunch of BS. He has ignored the 2 texts I sent him, got rid of me on all social media, and never spoke to me again after the first week we broke up. he had a new GF in no time flat. He lives as if I don't exist, and quite honestly, it really is what's best for both of us.
I know feeling rejected is the worst. But because he was BSing about the not enough time thing, it still is not a reflection on you at all. I used to think when a guy rejected me there was something wrong with me, I wasn't good enough, ect. Then I realize I am simply not what they want or need. Which does not make me unworthy. It just makes us want different things, at different paces, in different ways.
For the right guy you will be a priority. You just haven't found him yet, but you will.
Sigh. Yes. I really need to get over feeling like I've "lost" something/given an irreplaceable part of myself away when things don't work out with someone or I start to recognize it's not a good idea. I tend to hold onto things past their expiration date and have a hard time baking out, I think partly because I didn't even date before getting married, my XH was the first person I slept with, and every successive person makes me feel like "great, one more person to add to the tally." Maybe I just need to do a better job of waiting to get physical/more serious with someone until I have a much better sense of what they're about
otherwise I end up feeling like I need to justify my "investment" in that person and it makes it harder to leave.
Read up about the "sunk cost fallacy".