Hello.
I've been in Newcomers for a while. Just signed D papers 10 days ago. Was here 10 years ago under a different nick (toughlover). It has been a rough 10 years but this year was our 20th anniversary and things had really been looking up for the last several years, or so I thought. Discovered sexual text messages between XW and her co-worker at a church where they work full time in church leadership. The co-worker was/is the husband of a friend of hers. Also found her passed out drunk.
I gave her a boundary after that: she needed to deal with the drinking and the infidelity with outside help and come clean with me about what's been going on--or get the advice of a MC we both agreed with about that--before I would continue moving forward in the relationship with her. She went to one AA meeting but said it wasn't for her. Supposedly went to IC but wouldn't discuss it with me. 3 months later, she announced she was leaving, and left to go stay with a friend. There was no discussion aside from her telling me "there was no affair, nothing to see here, you're overreacting because of where we've been before." My response was: I think you're under-reacting, especially considering where we've been before.
So she left in early Oct. Sent papers back and forth in November. And I just signed them 10 days ago...just in time for the holidays.
Have 2 grown sons over 18 who are upset by this. Oldest sees her minimally, youngest barely speaks to her but does meet her for lunch or dinner occasionally. Both have been spending a lot more time here with me, so I've enjoyed seeing them more. Silver lining I guess.
I'm still bummed from time to time but overall doing well with it all. Went to IC myself for a couple of months and once again (have been here before) got help with how to handle things with her as well as learn to accept the truth: that unless she made some extraordinary effort, she was never going to be faithful to me. She never really showed much remorse for doing those things. Acted with a real sense of defiance and entitlement once this came out (again).
Aside from her shenanigans, my life is really pretty good. Work is good and I enjoy it, have enjoyed mild success at it. Kids are healthy and I have a pretty good relationship with them. Have supportive family and some friends. Activities I enjoy although I work an awful lot (but I enjoy it a lot).
Don't feel 'divorced'
Not particularly sad but not sh!tting giggles either. Have plenty of decisions still to make (sell or refinance house, etc?) so not particularly focused on the future right now. Just taking things one day at a time. Kids are spending Xmas with me so looking forward to that.
Hope you all are well!
Hi there! So sorry it finally came to this, but better to know at this point.
My story was a little bit similar - H's affair, DB'd my butt off, reconciliation and several good/great years together, then H went down the MLC wormhole as he approached 50/had work disappointments/kids were leaving the nest.
As hard as I worked to keep the marriage together, I feel peace in my heart that I did all I could do. And once I truly let go ("Let Go or Be Dragged" was my mantra) my life became better and better. Midlife dating was...well...an adventure, but since I had already endured the worst that could happen to a relationship, I felt pretty fearless. After a few years of dating, I met my current boyfriend of 2 1/2 years, who treats me like a princess and makes me realize all the things that were missing in my relationship with my ex.
I learned to play the drums and now play in a punk-rock cover band. I've also played with a professional singer/songwriter friend and done brief tours with her. The practice I started shortly before Ex's MLC has steadily grown and, although I don't make exorbitant amounts of money, it's enough for me to feel safe. I manage my money frugally and well without the interruptions of ex's financial impulses.
I try to keep my kids in a place where they interact well with their father. One son is currently not speaking to my ex but I am trying to give son some perspective without invalidating his grievances.
There is something wonderful about owning your own life again, after a long marriage of accommodating the other person and trying to keep them happy. This is your opportunity to do ANY CRAZY THING YOU WANT.
Think carefully about big financial decisions. Could you refinance the house and get a roommate to help pay the mortgage? Or is the house really too much for you and should you downsize? Only you can make those decisions. We sold our home and split the equity - I actually bought a bigger house in a much less expensive part of town and would like to have it paid off before I retire, although the timeline on that has gotten pushed out quite a bit. The reason for the bigger house was a need to provide a safe landing place for my three kids in their 20's and my mom - and sure enough, a few years after buying it, my 83 y.o. mother lives with me (she still drives and works half-time though!), and 2 of my three sons currently live with me (one will be moving back out soon). The house is large enough for all of us, and I figure, in the future, I could downsize or rent out rooms if I wanted.
Thanks for the reply. I remember you from 2006/2007 I think!
I do believe this round was kicked off by an MLC for the XW as well. She turned 40 this year; started dying the few grey strands out of her hair, obsessing about her weight (she was not overweight in the least...I thought she actually looked better than ever...had a short, cute, milfy thing going)...several other typical signs. For the last few years her besties have all been single women with troubled marriages, divorced, widowed, etc. At least one was a cheater herself.
I actually had a pretty good life all along and have been doing new things I wanted...most really revolve around work. I work for startups mainly and so there's been a lot of interesting challenges and opportunities there, some travel, learning new skills etc. Been really great overall.
As far as doing any crazy thing I want...honestly, I did all that in my early to mid-twenties. Got whatever I really wanted to out of my system. I was 28 when we married and I was ready to be married. Perhaps it's too new and things will change, but I really loved being married and love typical family life.
Hard at this time of year but I'm adapting. Adapt or die.
But family life suits me and always has. So far just been reconnecting with old friends (having my 30 year HS reunion this year helped), doing a bit more with newer friends, spending a lot of time with my sons...one of whom had been a bit distant for a while but this has brought him back in a bit so it's been really nice to have more time with him.
I love asian food and now have to cook for myself (XW was an awesome, awesome cook) so will prob take an Asian cooking class. Really, though, I've had a blessed life and have gotten to do most everything I really wanted to over the years.
Will be interesting to see if the bucket list gets longer and more adventurous as I head into my 50s.
Hi tl2,
Just saw that you've moved to a new neighbourhood in the forum. Maybe I should join you and be your neighbour. I have been divorced for 4 months now?
I'm like you. I am a family person and hate having to put myself out there to meet new people. I like my me-time but I so freaking miss kid when she's not around.
You really are doing great amd thanks for the lifelines you've thrown me when I was floundering.
Hi Grl,
Always delightful to hear from you. You should definitely be my neighbor! You're one of my favs.
Yeah I didn't see much point in posting in Newcomers any more. The deed is done, nothing to bust anymore. She clearly moved on a long, long time ago even though she just moved out a couple months ago. I'm moving on as well.
Consequences and fallout remain of course. I learned (weeks after everyone else in her family did) that my ex-FIL has a serious heart condition that could result in death at any time. He is currently awaiting treatment. He and I were (are?) very close and I love him very much. He's been like a second father to me in many ways. We used to hunt together, fish together, talk about life and kids and religion and politics. He was honest and direct with me as well as compassionate and kind. When the XW and I married, she and her dad were somewhat estranged and I encouraged her to reach out and make peace, which she eventually did. I encouraged them to come visit as often as possible and never missed a chance to visit them. A couple of years ago I started renting a place at the beach specifically so the X and I could go and invite our parents down to spend a few days because I didn't think we got to see them enough these days, they're getting on in years so time is more precious, and they've done so many nice things for me/us over the years I wanted to do something for them.
So they mean a lot to me, and he does in particular, and it was difficult learning of the illness itself, and doubly so being I was the last to hear about it. Heard it from my son but later got a text from the XW about it. Knowing what my relationship with exFIL is I of course was irritated that it took so long for her to let me know, and had to invoke the mantra (Not my circus. Not my monkeys...aka, Not my bats. Not my belfry).
I will be visiting him over the holidays since I will be up at my parents' and they live just a couple of miles away from my ex in-laws.
A strange existence, this post-D world. Adapt or die.
tl2, sorry to hear about your ex-fil. Hope you'll have a nice visit with him as well as with your parents.
Yes, it is a strange landscape, post-D, isn't it? What do you do with (ex) relatives who are collateral damage?
I am (was?) quite close to my ex-fil as well as he was the one who helped the X and me get this far. And he loves my kid, so how do you dislike someone who loves your kid? And my niece and nephew from the X's side, I miss them too.
And though I refer to him as my ex-fil, face to face, I still call him 'dad' because anything else sounds awkward.
Good that you can still visit your ex-ILs. Me, I am quite the exile now.
And I agree with you, it's really adapt or die.
Wow, kml, your life sounds exciting!
Yes, now is the time to do something crazy, but not too crazy for me since my kid is still so young.
Now is the time to dance like no one's looking, if only I could find someone to dance with!
What do you do with (ex) relatives who are collateral damage?
Yes, this has been difficult for me. When I visit my parents and have to run to the store, I basically drive by the ex-ILs house and I have the urge to stop by and visit like I used to. Often when I went there I would stay with the ILs myself. Now I'm welcome but on the outside and it's clearly not the same. Something else lost.
They both made it clear to me early on that they weren't taking sides really, that they were simply saddened by the situation. Of course, she's their daughter, so there's that...but she's been doing extreme things since she was a teenager and I think they have a sense of what I've been dealing with...as they have also been aware of my mistakes in the past. They also know my track record, though, and have seen me standing for something, hanging in and working to build up. So while they don't want to get in the middle of things, I think they at least sympathize.
I've wanted to see them previously but I didn't want to put them in an awkward position and thought it best I keep my distance. Gave them a quick call at Thanksgiving...sent a Christmas card.
But I'm mainly visiting because of the illness. It's quite serious and he's awaiting a procedure/operation. The diagnosis was missed several months ago and he actually could've died at any time. He's late 60s, long time smoker, has already had one minor heart attack and one major. I think he will make it to the surgery and that will be resolved for now, but this could also be the last time I see him, and that is very sad for me.
2015 has been quite a year!
I ran into the XW at the store last night. Stopped in after a night out with friends...this was the first random encounter...in years I guess, but certainly since signing the papers 2 weeks ago.
I was buying groceries for Xmas dinner with my kids. Went down an aisle and hit the main aisle and she was right there. Dressed oddly for her, like she was much younger than 40 (we live in a college town; also she just moved into some apartments with a lot of college-aged people according to my son. May be part of the suspected MLC, or may be nothing.).
I did a double-take because I recognized her but her outfit threw me. I kept heading in her general direction (was on my way to a specific aisle) and said, Hi. She stopped and turned slightly like she was going to talk. She said, How are you? I nodded and said, Doing well, thanks...and just turned and kept going.
The whole thing gave me a sick feeling. Seeing her makes me uncomfortable but I can't really say it's anger or sadness or anything specific. This D hasn't slowed me down too much, but I clearly am still dragging more baggage than I thought else I wouldn't have felt bad the rest of the night.
So...it's been a while. Thought I'd pop back in and give an update after having been divorced a year now.
All I can say is, What a difference a year makes. And, What a difference choosing to move forward and move on makes.
The main conclusion I have come to is...We are all our own worst enemies.
After all is said and done, and we've raked our cheating, lying, narcissistic spouses over the coals enough...and obsessed over their betrayals and lies and how they betrayed us, etc., and done everything we can (or not) to give the marriage a second (or third, fourth, etc.) chance, the harsh reality is that many (perhaps most) of us don't make it back, and there is still the task of moving forward and moving on. It's a choice, and a very difficult one, I think, for most of us who find our way here.
One thing I've always liked about this forum and Michele's advice is that it really boils down to taking the focus off of the people and situations we can't control, and focusing on becoming a healthier, stronger person ourselves, shedding unhealthy attachments and growing as individuals. As despicable (or not) as some of our spouses may be/may have been, holding on to an unhealthy attachment to someone is all on us, 100%.
It's a victim mentality, serves no useful purpose, and is always destructive. It can be very difficult to get out of. But there is no one out there worth sacrificing our peace, self-respect, and dignity over. Not the mother of my kids, not someone I'm dating or want to date, etc.
And...shocker...we lie to ourselves a lot. A LOT. More than we probably care to admin. And we lie to ourselves about lying to ourselves. I try and catch myself when I do it but it's not always easy to recognize at first, but I think I'm getting better at it.
The good news is it can be broken. The bad news is that many people don't or won't break it...or we convince ourselves that we're detached when we're actually obsessing over every little thing they do...out of pain avoidance and fear of losing the marriage, the family, etc. Fear of being alone which we allow to drive us into unhealthy, hasty relationships; fear of being hurt again that keeps us out of good ones. Fear of being "the divorced guy/gal".
We have a lot of work to do. More than we think.
Losing the family is very tough, no way around that. For me it hit particularly hard because my parents were divorced and I swore I'd never put my kids in that position. And that's where we all ended up. Mine are grown so it was a little easier...no visitation to worry over, etc. But in other ways it was very difficult as mine thought we were bulletproof as a family at this point. And, of course, we weren't. No one is.
They have lingering bitterness and some questions that they seem reluctant to ask still...I think they are afraid to know the answers, and I can't blame them for that. My youngest has a strained relationship (to put it mildly) with his mom.
I do hate that we ended up here, but I have to confess that much of the fear and pain associated with this situation was unnecessary and I brought on myself by refusing to see and accept things as they were and holding on to what I liked to call hope and commitment but which, looking back, were really more like living in fantasy land and obsessing over her behavior, the pain, the failure.
Around this time last year, mid-January to be exact, I started accepting the failure. She failed. I failed. The marriage failed. We all failed. I had a problem accepting that is what happened because I have always prided myself on being able to fix anything, to do whatever it takes. Refusing to let go will kill your spirit if not your mind and body.
So last year was maybe the worst year of my life. It was also one of the best.
Having accepted, I gradually started waking up with peace instead of dread. Having been married 20 years, dating was a little freaky once I got around to it, but spent time with some really wonderful women who were simply a pleasure to be around. That was eye-opening having been in the kind of meatgrinder marriage I'd been in for so long.
I traveled a bit, mostly on my own. It felt crazy good. Spent 12 days driving around the Northeastern US...from Atlantic City to NYC to the NH seacoast, upstate NY...some for work, some with new friends, some with family. Chicago. DC. Lower Appalachia.
There's just no substitute for being honest with ourselves, with learning how to really accept that we can only control ourselves--a big enough challenge that trying to control situations or people or relationships is a non-starter, fruitless, and, ultimately, sad.
There is no boundless optimism here, nor a pit of despair and negativity. For the most part, and thankfully, just peace, and balance, and appreciation. It has also become much easier to recognize negative or destructive thinking, people, etc., and avoid it by just letting it all slide, man, and moving on to better things.
Yes, a little pain and sadness lingers, pops up from time to time and says, "Howdy". But it has no hold on me like it once did, and I'm happy to say I've gotten to a point where I no longer make it either my enemy or my friend...to deny/avoid it or obsess over it. I've learned to just say, "Howdy" back, and keep moving.
We often enter this situation and this forum with "I never thought I'd be in this kind of marriage, never thought I'd be looking at divorce, never thought I'd be here."
Now I'm saying the same thing except for a different reason. I never thought I'd be here...past it, with peace and balance and living my life, for the most part, on my own terms...and even enjoying it again.
It's crazy how much better life is.
tl2,
Awesome post! Thank you.
It's crazy how much better life is.
It really is, isn't it?
Welcome to the other side.
That was really a great post and it couldn't be more true.
Some thoughts on post-D dating:
So I've been dating a very nice person for 7 months now. We occasionally get together with her friends and mine who are either divorced or never married. Interestingly, we seem to listen to them complain a good bit of the time about their dating pitfalls.
Having had several of these conversations now with various people in the 40s, I've made a few observations:
-- everyone who invested too much before really getting to know someone ended up with a difficult breakup
-- everyone who didn't maintain discipline regarding their personal space and balancing dating with the rest of their lives ended up in a difficult situation they're trying to resolve now, or in a difficult breakup.
-- people who dating clearly incompatible people got burned; a friend of mine who is not religious at all and who was married/divorced in his early 20s (he's 49 now) without kids dated a woman 14 years younger for two years who was very religious and wanted kids.
-- people dating where either or both had wildly inflated expectations early on ended up sorely disappointed; the 2 I talked to the most both communicated the same old magical, fairy tale thinking that I don't think ever works. I've even heard from people who had been through painful divorces and marital counseling that was fairly consistent with db principles.
Since my gf and I always seem happy and have fun with no drama, etc., I was asked "how I knew she was the 'right' woman for me". Haha. My responses:
-- I don't know that at all. That's not even a question I care about answering. My goal is to hang out and have fun with someone nice who I enjoy being with. End of story.
-- It makes no sense to start talking about a future with each other until you really start getting to know each other. I don't care what anyone says, that takes a good amount of time. Not something you can know about someone else in 3 months. So why worry about it? If one or both are looking to lock the other down quickly, that's probably a bad sign. Of neediness, control issues, or more.
-- Things move 'fast' because we choose to move fast and that seems to generally be driven by unhealthy thinking (again, IMO). They don't have to. We're grown ups and should act like it. The faster people move, and the earlier they do it, the more that seems to take on a snowball effect, so we develop attachments and a false sense of intimacy too damn soon...then after 6 months or so start getting a sense of what it's like to really be with this other person and how they make decisions.
What has been working for me (and, again, everyone's different and everyone's mileage may vary):
- GF and I see each other almost every weekend for a day or two. While we occasionally have a date during the week, or on a special occasion, we largely keep the work week for work and kids and friends.
- We talk a couple times during the week and occasionally text, especially if one of us has a challenge with something with kids or work that we want to talk about (that's usually her). For the most part, we save convos for when we see each other.
- We both agreed that our focus was going to be on hanging out and having fun, and thereby get to know each other. There has been no kind of "if you're not going to pursue a long-term serious relationship then we don't need to date" by either of us. Frankly, if I heard that from someone I hadn't known for a year or so, I'd be showing myself the door.
- We've taken 2 or 3 weekend trips together. Again...fun!
So it's been great. However, nothing's perfect and there have been some challenges:
1. She's been divorced a lot longer than I have and is a bit more ready to 'settle down' again should the right opportunity arise. I've made it very clear that while I'm not opposed to that, I'm also not interested in getting too serious in the short-term. It's not a huge issue at the moment, but she's made it clear that she is leaning toward being 'all-in' even though she respects my line on that.
2. I disagree with how she handles her kids on some things. Mine are grown and out of the house so are not as much of an issue. Sometimes when she's here my kids come over and we hang out a little; same when I am at her place. She has one in college and one in high school, and the differences in how we approach dealing with kids' issues highlight our differences in personality and decision-making on some things. It's unclear how best to negotiate that with each other...yet another good reason for taking it slow.
3. Both for my work and for myself, I need a lot of quiet, alone time. I enjoy social interaction but don't need it daily like she does. After a day alone with nothing going on, she gets stir crazy and because of my nature, I often need the opposite at the same time. As a result, I've encouraged her to continue spending more time with friends and family for the time being and, naturally, being a bit more emotional than me she sometimes feels slighted. So I reassure her at times and sometimes make an unexpected mid-week date, or agree to one if she asks; other times, she respects my need for more space. Again, whether this ends up being a deal-breaker or not, who knows.
So we talk things out the best we can and the communication is good even though we don't always see eye to eye. We continue to enjoy our time to together and, so far, neither of us is interested in ending that. While we have had some discussions that have been difficult because of our different natures, the dynamic is good with no drama or serious fighting.
Having not dated for so long because I was married (yes, some of us don't date while we're married...shocking I know), it's been interesting. I've worked very hard to not only try and grow past some of the bad habits and unfruitful behaviors I developed during the latter years of my marriage, but to apply some of those new ways of thinking to this new, wacky dating life.
At times I've been tempted by various negative thoughts or unfruitful ones that often cause us to lose focus/balance and seek to solve problems by covering them or soothing ourselves with a relationship: fear of being alone forever; the almost Pavlovian response many of us experience for the gratification you get when someone throws plenty of positive attention at you...especially after years of having little or none; to be dishonest with yourself or with someone else in order to make things simpler, allow the other to believe something incorrect, etc.; and to put pressure on someone else to conform to our expectations, soothe our insecurities, or generally start relying on someone else to make us 'happy'.
I'm not saying I'm doing it right or have all the answers. Just sharing my post-D dating experience and happily reporting that overall it's been positive by continuing to apply the basic principles of individual strength and independence I learned initially from reading the DB literature. Avoiding unhealthy attachments; having a life; balancing dating and such with other priorities and, etc., really do work, and aren't all that difficult to apply.
The difficulties always seem to involve our not being honest with ourselves or willing to identify and change unhealthy behaviors. That requires constant vigilance. But again...who knew life could be so enjoyable after all those bad years!
This was such a good read for me, I am dating/have a girlfriend which I really enjoy spending time with. I think the biggest and most important point you made for me is to continually check myself in this new relationship, to make sure I am approaching it correctly. I want it to be a healthy relationship, not a needed one, I can live alone and I am not just with her because I don't want to be alone. I am with her because I enjoy being with her, I am happy to be around her. We get along great and I never knew that a relationship could be this good.
The biggest struggle I have is distance, but I think it could be a blessing in disguise, we too see each other on the weekends and occasionally during the week. It leaves time for us to be parents, and when its appropriate we get to have time to ourselves, just the two of us. Dating after 40 is funky for sure but when you realize just how mature our brains are it can work out pretty good. Taking it slow and getting to know your partner is very important, looking for signs of compatibility is priceless when you see them, and recognizing that you can't really change or change a person teaches tolerance in some areas and can raise flags if there is something that you just can't get past.
Thanks for the great post!