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Posted By: Maybell Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/12/15 03:47 PM
Prior thread: Maybell XXXVI

Trying to move forward.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/13/15 05:07 PM
Today I am figuring out my health insurance. I want to throw up. Or cry. I don't want to deal with these things. I want what I thought I had. I want what I sacrificed for.

I had a dream last night about Mr. Fantastic. Something about ordering food in the Turkish language or something -- I can't remember the details. But as with many of my dreams, there was a definite punchline or message that I remember very, very clearly, and it was that I haven't finished letting go of him or my marriage and I need to do that now. (Talk about stating the obvious...)

I know this is true but I am so struggling. I don't know why I still have held on to the extent that I have but it's time to finish letting go.
Posted By: kml Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/13/15 06:49 PM
Letting go isn't easy, especially when it entails facing all the difficulties of single parenthood alone.

"Let go or be dragged" was the motto that helped me.

Also - focus on a goal that's separate from all this (I learned to play the drums when my ex left, great therapy). Make a big collage vision board of the things you want to attract into your future life, and put it where you will see it every day. Read books on frugality to help you feel more in control of your finances (I loved the Tightwad Gazette books).

Flirt with other men (even if you have no intention of dating yet - just smile at cute men that you pass on the street.)

Start calling him Mr. Notsofantastic.
Posted By: claire7 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/13/15 11:58 PM
How about Mr. Cr@ptastic?

I know it's all scary, MB. You can do this. You can do hard things, and we are all right here, cheering you on, so impressed with your strength and resilience and compassion and generosity. You have inspired me so many times.

And as much as I don't want to be married to my stbx anymore, I don't want to do this alone. (And I only have one kid!) It's freaking hard. You are such a rockstar and we have lots of virtual hugs for you.

Know that you are loved, and loveable, and awesome.
Posted By: kml Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/14/15 12:10 AM
Quote:
How about Mr. Cr@ptastic?


Hahaha - this is perfect, Claire!
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/14/15 03:09 PM
I am so profoundly tired that it's good I'm unemployed. I've been sleeping till 6:30 (and would sleep later if I could), which is strange for me, and I could nap mid-day if I didn't feel guilty for it. I wonder if I'll ever feel rested again.
Posted By: raliced Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/14/15 03:23 PM
Maybell,

I'm sorry, I've been meaning to weigh in for a few days now.

First of all, just so you don't feel alone. Let me tell you that I frequently fantasize about taking a week off from work and just curling up in bed the whole time. It sounds absolutely blissful to me as I am weary to my bones.

Don't feel guilty about taking the nap if you need it.

My dear - you do sounds depressed, which would certainly be completely normal under the circumstances. How is the weather there right now? Try to get outside and catch some sunlight if you can.

And regarding your earlier posts about the need to truly let go of the marriage......well that's a fine line to walk for those of us who have children, because the WAS's life will continue to intersect with ours both physically and emotionally where the kids are concerned. We can't ever really let go because of that, and the process of redefining our roles is truly painful and confusing.

MB- Have you ever thought about going back to school to finish your Masters? I remember you saying that goal was interrupted during the marriage. I ask, because I'm in the process of doing the same - and I have to say - I was somewhat pleasantly surprised by the amount of reasonable aid that was available to me (filing as Head of Household really impacts that financial aid). Yes - you would have to take on additional debt - but depending on the field you are in - it might be worth it and I would love to see you invest in yourself.

I'm thinking about you. I know you're in a tough spot right now. I truly do. But I've been reading your posts for over a year now crazy , and I also know you are a capable and talented lady who has good things ahead of her.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/16/15 05:42 PM
Hi, Raliced...

I finished my masters years ago. I didn't go on for the PhD because of kids (that field wasn't family friendly). I'm struggling to motivate myself to do much of anything. I've gotten a ton done on the house because I need to keep going and I know there is going to come a day when everything comes together again and I'll be full speed ahead. And it will feel good to have it all in order. It will feel restful. I am working on figuring out a couple of classes I need to renew a certification for my job search.

In the meantime, I've filed for unemployment. My former boss is contesting my assertion that I was dismissed, so I have a phone appointment scheduled for Monday morning. Once again I have to put up a fight for my rights and I'm SO SICK OF IT. Part of me wants to just let it go, part of me is indignant at the idea that I could let her get away with treating me like that. I have the possibility of evidence that I was dismissed but I hesitate to ask for it, since providing it to me could potentially injure the friend who received it. I don't want to cause others pain.

When does it get easier? I am not unhappy, but I am injured and sad and I just want things to get smoother.

Also, Mr. Cr@ptastic (thanks, Claire!) wants to be all friendly and tries to hang out when he drops off the kids, making small talk. He looks at me every time he leaves and says "I'll talk to you soon" and I just DON"T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIM. I can't talk to him without reopening the pain of knowing I tried so hard and everything went down the tubes anyway. I just want space to heal.

How long does it take to heal from all this? How long do I have to suffer all the worry and sadness that's in my chest and the anxiety of trying to figure out how to care for my kids while doing all this? When will it become normal and OK? I didn't expect to be so sad and to feel all this failure so strongly. I'm so tired...
Posted By: raliced Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/16/15 07:08 PM
Originally Posted By: Maybell

In the meantime, I've filed for unemployment. My former boss is contesting my assertion that I was dismissed, so I have a phone appointment scheduled for Monday morning. Once again I have to put up a fight for my rights and I'm SO SICK OF IT. Part of me wants to just let it go, part of me is indignant at the idea that I could let her get away with treating me like that. I have the possibility of evidence that I was dismissed but I hesitate to ask for it, since providing it to me could potentially injure the friend who received it. I don't want to cause others pain.



Let me offer you some reassurance on this one. I have represented the employers side for various companies in different states through the years and the cases have always gone in favor of the ex-employee, even when we had every "T" crossed and every "I" dotted. If she's been through this before (and I would guess she has based on your description) she's probably going through the motions (a lot of times people don't show up for the hearings etc). Don't assume the burden of proof is on you. It's usually on the employer and she can't produce a resignation letter. If it comes down to "she said, she said" - I'd guess it would go your way.

Sorry for the mixup on the degrees- I remembered something about an education interrupted, but got the specifics confused. It's on my brain now, because I've been taking some courses in preparation for my master's program and have found it pleasant to exercise some of those unflexed portions of the brain - and thought you might as well.

Chin up, Maybell. It will get better. And I bet once you get better employment and feel more settled - Mr. Cr@ptastic won't get under your skin as much.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/18/15 10:29 PM
I am feeling better. Though it may only be the St. John's Wort. Today would have Benn my 18th wedding anniversary. Mr. Cr@ptastic didn't acknowledge it last year or this year. What a guy.
Posted By: claire7 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/19/15 12:10 AM
Hey MB.
I'm sure it would be nice to have him recognize your Anniversary. But, doesn't mean you can't acknowledge it to yourself. I've already told some friends I want to go out for a drink and I plan on buying myself some kind of present. I have no intention of reaching out to stbx, and I have no expectations that he will reach out to me.

Now to watch those chilly Mets and Cubs!
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/19/15 01:03 PM
I just got the letter from my boss (who knowingly sent it to my old address... which is presumably why it took 18 days to get here).

It has totally triggered me.

The first sentence is her "accepting my resignation" -- which I never tendered.

The entire rest of the document is about my agreeing to do things for her, or to subject myself to obligations that benefit her. Nothing in this document is to my benefit at all.

But I have 45 days to decide whether or not to sign it (although I got it 18 days into the 45 day period).

I AM SO ANGRY I'M SHAKING. Why would I sign this thing? There is no benefit to me in it whatsoever.

I couldn't sleep last night just thinking about her, so it's very good that I'm no longer working there. Apparently she has stopped coming in to the office and there are piles of paper everywhere. So I'm better off without her. But I'm anxious.

Raliced, thank you for your encouragement. It does help, and yes, she's been around this block a time or two. But she fired my predecessor and they were still receiving phone calls from the unemployment office four months later. I don't want to lay down for this treatment but I don't want to drag out my connection to her for that long either.

Happy Monday!!
Posted By: claire7 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/19/15 01:50 PM
Where is her proof of resignation? Looking for a new job is not the same as resigning your old one! You were not even offered another job were you? Did you accept a new job?

DB this woman. Omg you get to try out all your DB skills all over again! How awesome and awful at the same time.

Detach! GAL! All the same stuff, now with even less emotional attachment!

Crickey, MB. Something fantastically awesome is surely coming your way soon...

(((Maybell)))
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/19/15 02:14 PM
Well, she's fighting it hard and it has escalated to a phone hearing that includes both of us. She's using real things that happened WILDLY out of context to claim I quit. The unemployment woman said "Why would she claim you quit when you didn't?" I HAVE NO IDEA. Just trying to refocus on finding work with a non-crazy person.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/19/15 02:39 PM
And she called all three partners of the firm i had spoken to and blasted them for considering me.
Posted By: raliced Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/19/15 03:27 PM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
The unemployment woman said "Why would she claim you quit when you didn't?" I HAVE NO IDEA.


Well- so she won;t have to pay unemployment.

She's used to bulldozing people and this is just standard operating procedure for her. Here's the thing- you pay into unemployment insurance - it's there specifically for this situation - don't let the fact that she is apparently going to make you jump through hoops prevent you from getting what is rightfully and justly yours.

She'll say stuff on the call to get a rise out of you. Stay calm and stick to the facts (i.e. - "That is not a correct representation of what happened").

You can get through this MB!
Posted By: claire7 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/19/15 04:22 PM
Yep. It's just business. Detach!
Posted By: SunnyB Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/21/15 01:11 PM
Maybell, sorry that your former employer is turning out to be such a nightmare. She's in backtracking mode, trying to alter the past to save a penny. Just do what you need to do for yourself, and hang in there.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/22/15 02:27 AM
D12 has a skin infection that has laid her very low (so my unemployment is well-timed). And Mr.Cr@ptastic wants to have a talk with me about him telling the kids about his girlfriend of "2-3 months." A SAHM of 5,acquaintance of mine whose former husband ONE YEAR AGO was crying his eyes out over her cheating and his cheating while he also was running his hands all over me. Her kids go to school with my kids. I can't WAIT to see how this plays out.

I see no point in meeting with him but I'm going to do it, STFU and be ready to hug my kids if they need it.

Seriously, will there be a time soon when my life turns a corner?
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/22/15 03:15 AM
On consideration, I don't have any opinion about his girlfriend. But I know her well enough to know that he's not using good judgment.
Posted By: claire7 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/22/15 03:51 AM
Maybell! Ugh. And hugs.
Yes things are sure to turn in a brighter direction for you.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/22/15 07:56 AM
Did I mention she has the same first name as me?
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/24/15 01:14 PM
So I've been thinking a lot about Mr. Fantastic's girlfriend situation and I am much calmer now. (Sorry, Claire, I'm going back to the sarcastic Mr. Fantastic, because he's just SO NOT, and the other name is just not sufficient for his awesomeness.)

Anyway, I'm sure that most of the dating he's been doing is of equally high moral fiber so I'm not going to worry about it. But my kids know his family. His girlfriend, as it turns out, is still living with her husband. ("Exclusive"?) She sticks around the house long enough to feed the kids and then several nights a week she goes off to spend the nights with Mr. Fantastic, then sneaks home early in the morning to be there when the kids get up. I'm sure her kids understand what's going on but to the outside world, she's still married.

I want to be able to communicate to my kids that it is NOT OK to interfere with other people's relationships like that. But obviously I can't throw their dad under the bus in that blatant way. I wish he didn't feel the need to bring my kids into his scenario but I had no argument ready for his concern that they would find out at school.

How can I raise my kids to respect the sanctity of marriage and family? How can I communicate to them that what he is doing is wrong?

As an additional note, he's told D12 that he's looking to buy a house after Thanksgiving. Now that I know his girlfriend is still living with her husband, I strongly suspect Mr. Fantastic intends to move her in with him when he buys the house. This is NOT going to end well.

Does anyone have any wisdom for parenting my kids through this debacle? I feel like they need guidance but not judgment on the situation. I don't want them to grow up to be self-absorbed sociopaths. I want to protect them from the crazy. Also, I'm very, very ashamed I gave them such a man for their father.
Posted By: Dawn70 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/24/15 05:39 PM
Maybell, thanks for stopping by my thread. I'm finally getting around to catching up on some as well and you have had a time for sure.

I have found, for me, that the absence of XH has made our whole split easier in many ways and I know not everyone has that luxury.

I wish you all the peace and happiness you can find. smile
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 10/29/15 04:02 PM
Just had the conference call hearing with my former boss. She told a FLAT OUT LIE about me and she KNEW it was a lie. I am so upset. I don't even care what happens with the hearing. I am just so angry that someone could tell a flat out lie and then call ME a liar -- and all for no gain whatsoever, just out of pettiness.

Help.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/04/15 07:40 PM
I think I've turned a corner. I've been really struggling with what to do with my life -- looking for a job that will satisfy me for a long time, that I can settle into, that will feel reasonably fulfilling and make use of many of my strengths. It has taken a while to calm down and I think I just had to really break down before i could get to this new place of calm.

I decided I wanted to start running again, but I haven't made a lot of progress. Then one of my sisters-in-law invited me to run a half-marathon with her in Florida this winter and it has really lit a fire under me. I'm feeling a sense of purpose again. So then I went another step further and found some meet-up groups in my area. I haven't attended any yet, but I'm going to try two out this weekend and just enjoy doing activities of my own without the kids, who are with their dad this weekend. It will be nice to get out and hopefully meet a few new people without any expectations of anything other than just enjoying the event.

Mr. Fantastic is going to do what he's going to do. But the kids and I are really drawing closer and that has been wonderful. I know I've said this before but I feel like they are confiding in me a little more and that means the world to me.

Here is what I think I've learned:

1. I don't have to have my entire life figured out. I just need to know what I want for right now, and to keep my eye on who I want to be in my life. So I don't have to have my entire career for the next twenty years figured out so long as I remember to be my best self every day.

2. I am a person worth organizing my life around. If I want to set the goal that I'm going to run half-marathons in the next four months, and I plan for how I'm going to achieve that, then that is sufficient purpose. I don't have to plan for my epitaph this year.

3. It is OK to take a little bit of time away from the kids to have fun. They are going to grow away from me in their lifetimes and if I want to have a close relationship with them then I need to have my own life so they feel free to have lives of their own. Then we can come together and share our differences in a loving and joyful way. I have them 26 days a month. If I don't take a little time away from them to have fun I won't be able to be loving and joyful. I'll be too darn tired.

4. It is WONDERFUL to be able to talk to my friends about stuff other than my drama. For example, to talk about THEIR drama, and return some of the friendship and support that I've been so blessed with in the last two years. I feel so much freer now.

Hoping you are all enjoying this beautiful fall as much as I'm beginning to...
Posted By: adinva Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/04/15 07:59 PM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
4. It is WONDERFUL to be able to talk to my friends about stuff other than my drama.


Hear Hear! You sound great, and I'm so glad. That ^^ was so freeing for me too. To finally not be the "left one" and to be just "me" felt good, and I noticed that it originated in my own attitude more than in how people treated me.

Happy fall!
Posted By: claire7 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/04/15 11:45 PM
Such a beautiful post, MB. This morning on my way to work I saw this gorgeous pile of leaves-- ig and brightly colored reds, oranges, yellows. They were still falling around me. It was such a gorgeous sight and it made me think that there can be beauty even in tragedy, and that it is the cycle of life that things die, but also that, in time, there is renewal and regrowth. It sounds like you are entering your "spring".
Posted By: SunnyB Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/06/15 12:49 AM
MB, MeetUp has been wonderful for me. I started hesitantly doing some things a year ago, and now I'm a permanent fixture in a couple of groups, plus a "side" thing that has developed. What I loved about MeetUp is that these people didn't know me as half of "Mr. Perfect and Sunny". They don't know Mr. Perfect, don't care. They are interested in me as a stand alone, and I've made some nice friends. I have also made peace with the fact that I may or may not still be friends with these people in 10 years, and if not, that's perfectly OK. They are in my life at the time I need them. Bottom line is, good for you, go to that MeetUp, try out a few until you find the right fit. You do need and deserve grown-up time, MB.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/07/15 03:17 AM
I went to a ballroom dance lesson tonight and had the BEST time! And tomorrow I'll run for my half-marathon training and see a movie with a friend. The last time I went to see a movie was Gone Girl!! Sunday a great play. And last night I delivered a meal to a friend going through a tough move. I feel like my life is mine again, and it's a very nice one.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/09/15 03:36 AM
Mr. Fantastic took my kids out with the girlfriend's kids this weekend. My kids don't seem too fussed, though the boys are MUCH clinggier than usual. D12 is being stubborn and demanding.

I have to say, it's a little bit hard not to take it personally. He traded me out for another SAHM with the SAME FIRST NAME as me. Took the six kids to do an activity we used to do as a family. It's like he was perfectly happy to have that life that he claimed he didn't want, he just wanted someone else to fill my spot.

I realize he's a an immature liar and a jerk who leads with his penis. It's revolting that he's trying to make a new family with a woman who STILL LIVES WITH HER HUSBAND (and what is all this doing to her kids????) I guess maybe I need some reassurance that I'm not the cr@ppy one. Because I feel like dirt.

I hadn't unfriended him on Facebook yet because I unfollowed him and didn't find it necessary. But today he liked a video I posted of my S9 and now I think I might.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/10/15 01:21 AM
Found out tonight that Mr. Fantastic's girlfriend hosted a dance after party at which she and her spouse served alcohol to minors.
Posted By: claire7 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/10/15 04:37 AM
Were your kids there?
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/10/15 01:38 PM
No. I live in a relatively small town and I keep hearing about her antics. Last week a supposed friend came to apologize to me for not coming to an event I hosted -- she said she "felt conflicted" because she was friends with both the GF and me. I hear about the party and the same source said that the high school parents the GF is associated with are talking about how she and her husband are "having problems."

This stuff is all openly discussed in the community. My kids spent Saturday before the party with her and her kids having been told by their dad that she's his girlfriend. I have always been concerned about his drinking and worried about navigating alcohol when the kids are teens because he said when D12 was a baby that he was in favor of serving alcohol at high school parties as long as the kids turned in their keys because that was what his parents did when he was in high school.

If a parent is willing to serve a teen alcohol (and my source clearly did not have advance knowledge that this would be the case), at what age do they draw the line? 16? 14? My 12 yo is very mature looking -- she could easily pass for 15-16. A parent who is willing to serve minors doesn't card, does she? Nor is she responsible enough to know when she's impaired herself. So where does she draw the line?

I don't want my kids spending time with Mr. Fantastic when he's with his GF for a lot of reasons. I think it hurts my S9 to see his dad with another partner. S7 has complained that he doesn't get to spend enough time with his dad. How much worse will it be if he has to share him with a GF all the time? I worry about the messages my D12 is getting about commitment, about respect, about alcohol use, about sex. I don't feel like the situation is bad enough to warrant getting the law involved (yet), but it's clearly terrible. People who know the GF know and refer to her as a woman who is married to her husband. D12 was friends with her son before Mr. Fantastic even moved out of the house -- what message does it send that he (the kid) is living with his married parents but being taken on outings with his mother's "boyfriend" and her kids?

I am not sure what I'm looking for here except maybe a place to vent my shock and disappointment that Mr. Fantastic really is That Guy and that he has decided to embrace being That Guy whole hog. I worry a lot about my kids and hope that I am the parent they need to come out healthier than he is.
Posted By: Mozza Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/14/15 02:56 AM
Regarding the kids, my experience and attitude has been to let them figure it out by themselves. D7 is asking questions every now and then. I'm not lying, but I'm not criticizing either. I cannot criticize their mom anyway: it's their mom and I've read over and over again how hurtful it is for kids to be torn between the two parents, to have a conflict of loyalty. If anything, when they finally figure out what happened, they'll likely have a renewed sense of respect for my self-control over the whole thing. So I would say given that your WAH's behaviour is so out of norm, just let them come to their own conclusion over time, it will be way more convincing than if you try to bring them to it.

I have hope that you'll find the strength to focus on you, on your life and ignore his antics. That you'll get to a place where it doesn't matter what's the name of his girlfriend, what's her living arrangement, who he slept with and when. It's liberating and it frees up a lot of energy for the things that matter to you.
Posted By: claire7 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/14/15 12:17 PM
Mozza, I really like your reply. It's inspired me as well.

MB: yep, the situation is kinda messed up. I think the best you can do is to teach your kids through your own actions. And certainly being someone who can hold her head up high with grace and dignity, and let go of anger and resentment is something beautiful and powerful to show your kids.

Hang in there. He's taken you on quite a ride, but you can simply step off and let him flail on his own...
Hugs.

(P.s. this post is basically a message to myself as well...)
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/14/15 06:07 PM
Well, I decided I need to move myself forward so I signed for an online dating site. I've gotten an outrageous amount of responses but I'm not sure how to move forward with a couple of interesting guys. The interest level has done a lot to get my mind off Mr. Fantastic.

My poor sweet S9 told me the other night that between me and his dad he loves me 99.9%. I feel sad that he feels that way so I thanked him and hugged him and said I love him all the way, and that he shouldn't feel like he has to divide his love between us.

I have a job interview Monday. Life seems to be moving forward again.
Posted By: SunnyB Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/14/15 06:50 PM
Maybell, I'm sad to hear how your kids are being affected. I'm very glad to hear about your job interview and about your dating possibilities. Keep us posted!
Posted By: BeginningAgain Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/14/15 06:55 PM
Good luck with the online dating. I crashed and burned a few times but kept at it until I hit the jackpot! grin Sometime you just have to kiss a few frogs. Listen to your instincts - I found that was a good strategy. If something seems wrong or weird, move on quickly!

BA
Posted By: Mozza Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/15/15 06:52 PM
I've been on online dating websites for a few months now and it has been good to me, who has a hard time approaching people in real life. I can't quite provide much guidance to you though because the male experience is very different from that of women. There are more women than men on there and men tend to be more aggressive. Maybe the one thing that I've heard from women on this site is to avoid replying to men when you're not interested because they don't handle rejection gracefully.

But there's one thing that applies to both genders: be honest. First, be honest with yourself about what you're looking for. Then, be upfront about it on the website. I had to shed a few layers of embarrassment and shame before being able to do this. Sometimes, I felt I was writing the "wrong" thing from a socially acceptable (in my view) standpoint, but I knew it was truer to who I am and what I'm looking for.

Dating is a matching game. It's not about impressing people, nor arriving to the top of some pyramid. The selection criteria are arbitrary: some people like tall, curvy, patient, smoker, witty, strong-willed, submissive, etc people. Go after what you desire, then find someone who desires someone like you. You might think "Yes, but everyone wants a tall dark handsome man! I can't be asking for it too!" or something like that, but no. Our tastes are not universal and you shouldn't negotiate against yourself. I've been surprised myself at how much it paid off to be honest and go after what I desire.

Oh and don't worry too much about disappointing people. If you're not interested, the kindest thing you can do is to be clear about it.

Good luck. I hope it will bring you joy.
Posted By: KGirl Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/16/15 04:59 AM
Crawling out of the woodwork for the online dating conversation... smile

MB, are you really ready to date? Or is this more of a "let's sign up for this site and keep it just online/regain some confidence because people are interested in me" sort of thing? I did that second one for a month or so before my D was final but then didn't feel quite right needing to explain to people I was still M, so decided to deactivate and hold out for when I really felt I could reply wholeheartedly (and less awkwardly).

But maybe you are ready, I dunno.. if so, woohoo! Let the fun begin smile I agree w/ mozza in that if you're not interested it's better just to not answer at all - you're going to get so many messages it'd be impossible to keep up. If you are interested, keep the online convo to a minimum before meeting up. You could spend weeks chatting with someone online and it's great and then be totally turned off by something in-person within the first five minutes, so getting the in-person meeting set up relatively quickly is helpful. And, I think it's good to be upfront about your situation, if it's not already in your profile. There are ways to work it in.. "Sorry, I've been a little slow at responding lately, I was a bit busy with some paperwork. I'm actually in the process of getting divorced as we're still finishing up some of the legal items." Or "do you have kids? I have three. They live with me most of the time, though...their father and I are still working out the legalities of that." I'm assuming kids comes up when you're at the kid-having age during online dating..? smile

Going back to being ready... my opinion is that if it's not yet "just about the paperwork", dating is going to be tough. With some of your posts in this thread, I wonder. Regardless, be honest and upfront and if you do meet up with someone make sure you're 100% focused on them smile I found a 6' 4'' guy online.. the tall ones are out there!
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/16/15 02:20 PM
Hey, K! Nice to hear from you!

I'm completely divorced. I'm on Match, so it says in my profile that I have three kids who live with me.

I'm a people person, so to the extent that dating is about getting to know new people and exploring the area, I'm completely ready. The idea of sex is kind of terrifying, but I don't think waiting around will make that any better considering what the fear is about, so I'll just see how things work out. I do get slightly freaked out when guys want to share phone numbers but feeling the fear and doing it anyway seems to be good for me.

I can not believe how many people have turned out of the woodwork to respond to my profile. I did have a phone chat with one guy on Saturday but that was clearly not going to work so I sent him an email yesterday. It was very freeing to be open about saying that we weren't a match.

It is amazing to me how little I care about Mr. Fantastic now that I have other places to turn my attention. It's not like I want him back. When things were tough it was easy to just indulge in being angry with him for making my life harder. Now they seem to be on an upswing -- I have a job interview this afternoon, there are people interested in me on Match, a friend is angling to introduce me to someone she knows personally, the things about my house that were freaking me out before I got fired are resolving, and although I'm not super thrilled with my financial situation at least I know that's going to be improving soon as well. My frustrations are partly relieved and have I other places to put my attention that are a lot more positive, and so I can let go of some of that anger I was harboring against him. My opinion of him hasn't improved; just my interest in reacting to his choices.

With regards to tall guys -- I'm talking to one who's 6'7" at the moment... smile
Posted By: KGirl Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/17/15 01:39 AM
Oooh, I'm sorry, I must have missed a thread in-between somewhere. I haven't been following as closely as I used to..! Didn't realize everything was final. I'll have to do some bedtime reading smile I was really scared of the sex part too only having done that with my H. But once I met someone that I felt comfortable with (and actually went on more than two date with...), it was not so scary. Your post sounds so positive - yay! And I'm way too short for these tall guys (5' 2'').
Posted By: SunnyB Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/17/15 01:52 AM
Ladies, ladies. Please leave the 6'4"s and up for me. Please......I beg of you.


Not.Kidding.
Posted By: SunnyB Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/17/15 02:05 AM
Maybell, if you have a chance, go over to Newcomers and help out my friend Ep. My STBX is too nice to give me enough experience to advise her. Ironic, isn't it? But your X is as big a pain in the neck as hers, maybe you can pass along some tips. wink
Posted By: kml Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/17/15 02:10 AM
Quote:
With regards to tall guys -- I'm talking to one who's 6'7" at the moment...


Lol - my first boyfriend after my divorce was 6'6". The next was 6'4". Then 6'3". Then 6'6" (this one might have lied, he looked more like 6'7" to me). Then 6'5". Current boyfriend is 6'3".

My ex is 5'10". I only had one really tall boyfriend in college, the rest were average height. Don't know what it was about me after-divorce that attracted all these tall guys, but I love it!
Posted By: SunnyB Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/17/15 02:13 AM
Originally Posted By: kml
Lol - my first boyfriend after my divorce was 6'6". The next was 6'4". Then 6'3". Then 6'6" (this one might have lied, he looked more like 6'7" to me). Then 6'5". Current boyfriend is 6'3".

My ex is 5'10". I only had one really tall boyfriend in college, the rest were average height. Don't know what it was about me after-divorce that attracted all these tall guys, but I love it!
I need some pointers in attracting the tall ones, kml. I'm 5'10", and it would be great to wear my favorite heels without hearing that I'm tall. Yeah...been this tall since I was 14, I'm well aware of that, thanks.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/17/15 03:36 AM
Sunny, I'm on match, remember? I'm screening for the tall ones. wink
Posted By: Wonka Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/17/15 03:40 AM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
Sunny, I'm on match, remember? I'm screening for the tall ones. wink


Chewbacca? grin
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/17/15 04:02 AM
Too hairy. Next!!!
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/21/15 09:04 PM
I had lunch with someone today and I think I like him. But I wanted to take some time to think about it before I thought I did. Now I'm sitting here and I can't sit still because I'd like to see him again. How soon is too soon?
Posted By: SunnyB Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 11/23/15 01:30 AM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
I had lunch with someone today and I think I like him. But I wanted to take some time to think about it before I thought I did. Now I'm sitting here and I can't sit still because I'd like to see him again. How soon is too soon?
Don't put an artificial time frame on it, MB. You are D, you've been through hell for way too long, it's only too soon if you aren't enjoying yourself. Have fun, sweetie, you deserve it.
Posted By: Mozza Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/02/15 01:43 AM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
I had lunch with someone today and I think I like him. But I wanted to take some time to think about it before I thought I did. Now I'm sitting here and I can't sit still because I'd like to see him again. How soon is too soon?

Time to share some post-D dating lessons! The one lesson that might apply here is to pace your emotions to the situation. I've learnt not to get overly invested too soon - it is a little known fact that may fall harder and earlier than women on average. So now I think to myself that I've only met this girl once or twice, so I should have a commensurate response to it. I've had many disappointments (no regrets -- well maybe one wink ) and it's part of dating. Not getting too involved before realizing I didn't like the girl all this much or that she was slipping away has helped me to avoid a lot of hurt. This being said, as time goes by and you grow closer, it's OK to get more invested.

Writing it all here it sounds evident, but it was new to me after going all in very early in my previous relationships.

On a more technical level, I recommend that you more or less alternate your communications with him. Reach out to him, then let him respond. Next time, let him initiate. Every now and then, it's ok to initiate twice in a row, but I wouldn't go much further until you have established some kind of relationship. Holding back will let him know that you're not overly attached, that he's a nice presence in your life, but not the center of it.

Keep us posted!
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/02/15 12:47 PM
Thanks, Mozza, that was very timely! Men fall harder and earlier than women? That's surprising to me but I believe you. We have been alternating communications, and for the most part I stop first. We'll see what happens.

Mr. Fantastic had started asking if he could alternate having one or two of the kids for dinner once a week, in addition to having all three of them together for dinner once a week. I knew it was only a matter of time till this blew up, and now it already is. Sometimes he takes one kid, sometimes another, sometimes two at a time. He doesn't choose who in any order and he doesn't keep track. Everybody has had one turn, and twice he's taken two kids. Tonight, without any discussion except with D12, he's taking her, and they have Christmas shopping plans. S9 has been really missing him, especially since they didn't see him at all for almost two weeks because he traveled for Thanksgiving, and he only called once. This morning S9 was near tears because it wasn't D12's "turn." I asked him if he'd talked to his dad about it and he said he tried to but that his dad just told him that he'd had a turn and that tonight it was going to be her. (I can imagine exactly how this conversation sounded; S9 emotional and a little whiny and Mr. Fantastic trying to be firm).

I told S9 that I was sorry and I didn't know what to tell him, that I didn't control his dad. He said "Ok," but he sounded kind of miserable about it. Is there anything I should do? Should I reach out to him? Our communications now are basically through email. I don't think he can stand to talk to me any more than I can stand to look at him. I doubt he'd welcome my input much. What about anything I can say to S9? I do try to comfort him and I've made it very clear how important he is to me, but it's not me that he wants.

Interestingly enough, S7 seems to be managing all right with the level of attention he's getting. He accepts it when it's there and doesn't complain about missing it when it's not. He's excited when it is time to visit his dad and leaves him without expression of regret when that time is over. I'm not sure if this is good or not.

Advice welcome...
Posted By: ep0215 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/02/15 06:06 PM
Maybell - I'm so sorry S9 feels the unfairness. I'm not sure you should reach out to his Dad about it, it may come off as controlling and fall on deaf ears. Could you talk to S9 about him taking to his Dad?
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/03/15 07:48 PM
I told Mr. Fantastic last night when he dropped off D12 that he had to figure out a way to spend one on one time with S9. I said that of all the kids he was the one who missed him the most and that he was really upset. He said OK. D12 offered to help with S7 this weekend to make that happen for S9.

I hate that I did that because I don't think Mr. F should be helped, but I hate seeing my child suffer more. S9 has been clear. Mr. F should be able to see how he's hurting. I can't believe it's possible to be so callous to one's own child.
Posted By: SunnyB Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/05/15 02:54 PM
Maybell, I think you did the right thing. I don't put myself in the relationship between STBX and my older two, but I occasionally do for D13, and you bet I would for a 9-year old. You did it for S9, not Mr. Fantastic, and that's what's right. Good job, sweetie.

Now, how's everything else? Work? House? Dating? Are you feeling positive about your life, MB?
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/07/15 02:44 AM
HI, Sunny!

I'm still not working but I'm working on a plan. The house... I need help. But when I look at it now compared to three months ago, I'm way better off.

Dating is interesting. I kissed him tonight for the first time! Which I had forgotten was nice, and also, it was hard to stop. He was very gentlemanly I don't know what will happen there but I'm willing to keep on with no judgment.

I think my life is moving in a positive direction.

BTW, curious... I was talking to a friend who asked if Mr. Fantastic knew I was dating. He warned me that Mr. F might get upset once he finds out. Did anyone have that experience?
Posted By: SunnyB Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/07/15 12:07 PM
Mr Perfect has been encouraging me to date since day 1, a guilt reliever I suspect.
Posted By: Mozza Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/08/15 01:47 PM
I really don't think they care.

Two quotes in light of your recent updates.

“Resentment is like drinking poison and then hoping it will kill your enemies.” - Nelson Mandela

"Would you rather be right, or happy?"

I hope you'll let go soon of the resentment you have for Mr. Fantastic. It's for your own sake. He doesn't suffer from your resentment. In fact, it gives him power over you. But it does hurt you: it keeps him in your thoughts longer than it should. It fills you with negative emotions. Only you. Your resentment is not going to change him, but it's changing you.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/08/15 04:17 PM
Hey, Mozz...

I'm not sure where you're reading a lot of the resentment towards him WRT my personal life. I don't think I'm feeling any. I do feel a little bit of resentment towards him on behalf of the kids. I do not like having to remind him of his responsibilities as a father. When I asked the dating question it was really just out of curiosity because someone had warned me that might come up. I don't think he'll care at all.

His siblings are really reaching out to me lately, and my D12 told me his mother had asked her what I wanted for Christmas. I am surprised and touched at both those things, especially since I really enjoyed his siblings and their spouses and had worked hard to build good relationships with them prior to the split.

I'm noticing that New Guy isn't curious about my life in the sense that he doesn't ask a lot of questions about what's going on with me -- though he does ask questions about me that are much less personal. On the other hand, I know a LOT about his life, including specifics about who he spends his time with, family relationships, etc. I don't think he's toxically self-centered, but I'm curious if I'm being over-sensitive about this or if I should appreciate that he's letting me lead how much I want to explain about myself. I recognize that I'm working through some scars but if I'm going to do this dating thing I'd like to feel like I'm personally interesting to the person I'm seeing.
Posted By: Barry Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/08/15 04:21 PM
Sorry to hijack your post Maybell. It sounds like you're doing well. I really just wanted to say that Mozza's last post really resonates with me too. Resentment has changed my entire outlook on the world this year and turned it into a dark place. If anyone has any practical advice on how to ditch the bitterness, I'd be really interested to hear it. I'd like the open wound to start healing now - even though I'm aware it'll leave a scar.
Posted By: SunnyB Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/09/15 12:03 PM
Maybell I've been trying to gather up enough time to respond, and...this isn't it. But have a great day and I'll try to share my thoughts later.
Posted By: Underdog Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/09/15 06:40 PM
Maybell,

I'm going to hijack for a second to answer Barry. If there's something here than resonates with you, then that's good too. Otherwise, I think I'm going to let Sunny come back and offer her thoughts to you. wink BTW, I'm going to stick to my earlier assessment that it's more anger with you than resentment...

Barry, I spent enough time in IC to learn one big a$$ lesson on resentment. Here goes:

Resentment occurs when we expect others to take care of needs that we aren't willing to fill ourselves.

The cure for resentment is to amp up the self care. When we do that, we fill our needs and the resentment dissipates. It's not to say that resentment isn't a normal or logical emotion. But 100% of the time, when I feel resentment toward something or someone, I can guarantee that I haven't been doing things that are Betsey-centric, and I'm wallowing in that pile of resentment and self pity that just leads to more of the same. The moment I hop out of that mindset and do something for myself, I find myself seeing things differently. My soul feels more joy and there's less of that insidious, poisonous crap eating away at me.

I can say that my own resentment trap is directly correlated to my martyr complex. The more fuel I feed that complex, the more resentment I feel.

Good luck!

Betsey

p.s. Bitterness is a choice. And so is a soft, caring heart. When you start to fall down that rabbit hole, try to think of something more loving to replace it. It takes discipline and it doesn't come naturally, so work at it for awhile. If anything, just know that nobody wants to be with a bitter person. Think of it like eating vegetables because they're healthy for you. cool
Posted By: Mozza Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/10/15 04:41 PM
Maybell | My comment was related to your resentment for "having to remind him of his responsibilities as a father". You could also simply have told him about your son's troubles and moved on, but you carried this resentment with you. It doesn't change a thing with him, it doesn't make him a better father, it doesn't help your son. It just makes you more miserable. And note that you resent having to remind him - your wording - rather than how he treats your son. The two are related, but your wording is potentially revealing.

But my comment was also related to a bigger thread in your updates, one that makes it evident that you hold a lot of resentment against WAH for his cheating, lying, leaving, etc. I understand why and you know that I despise him, but I also see that this only makes you miserable, not him. I bring it up because I'm working on letting go of my resentment against my WW myself, realizing that me alone in my living room feeling resentful at her is hurting no one but me.

Your questioning about New Guy's interest in you is resonating with me. As a date, I'm known for showing a lot of interest in the other person. Many of my dates have mentioned it, and they appreciate it. It seems like it's a rare currency. Many men seem to think that a way to impress a date is to drone in about themselves. Maybe he's just typical in that sense, but maybe also you're not looking for typical.

But mostly, I'm always on the lookout for my dates' interest in me. My WW lost it in the last year of our relationship and it was immensely hurtful. I want to be listened to when I share my life and concerns. I want to be asked a few questions. I'm seeing someone these days and I kind of wonder the same thing that you do: Is she interested? Am I asking for too much?
Posted By: SunnyB Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/11/15 12:24 PM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
I'm noticing that New Guy isn't curious about my life in the sense that he doesn't ask a lot of questions about what's going on with me -- though he does ask questions about me that are much less personal. On the other hand, I know a LOT about his life, including specifics about who he spends his time with, family relationships, etc. I don't think he's toxically self-centered, but I'm curious if I'm being over-sensitive about this or if I should appreciate that he's letting me lead how much I want to explain about myself. I recognize that I'm working through some scars but if I'm going to do this dating thing I'd like to feel like I'm personally interesting to the person I'm seeing.
Hi Maybell, I've been thinking about this for a few days and while I don't have an exact answer, I'm always happy to share my opinion. wink We all know that lack of interest in me by Mr. P post-BD was a huge sticking point for me. Long drive, flat tire, leg surgery, don't care, I'm not asking about you. Even now he hasn't once asked about my new job other than have I started it yet (because that affects alimony of course). So, just warning you this is a hot topic for me.

Shift over to guy I dated for a little over a month. He talked a lot about himself, rarely asked questions of me. I was patient, thought maybe he might not be comfortable carrying on a conversation and talking about himself was his way to fill space; I thought he might be trying to give me space by not asking too-personal things; I thought maybe I was being insensitive by wanting to talk about myself. I made up a lot of excuses to make it ok, but in the end it wasn't the relationship I wanted to have. The deal breaker was when I thought he had been particularly subdued and non-responsive to my texts over Thanksgiving weekend, and I finally called him out on it. His reply was that he was a sensitive guy and wanted to give me space for my family and not be demanding. I said I understood, that was a great viewpoint and sweet of him, but could he also see the viewpoint that perhaps I needed more support from him during a demanding time instead of less and I wished he had initiated a conversation about it before it got to the point where I felt abandoned? He launched back with a long diatribe centered around himself. He never even acknowledged what I had said. So I called him out again. He never got it and then was surprised when I ended it.

My point, MB, with my personal story is, if you don't think he's interested in you, move on. He doesn't ask about you, that's a warning sign. How does he react when you bring up something, does he dig further or does he simply match it with his own similar story? Can you imagine living this life and having these conversations 10 years from now? Can you imagine sharing your hopes and dreams with this man, not now, but after some time together? How do you feel when you come home from a date, are you walking on Cloud-9 or are you brooding because he wouldn't listen?

I'm holding out for Cloud-9.
Posted By: Mozza Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/11/15 03:48 PM
A word of praise for SunnyB when she expressed her emotions to her date. Even though I show a lot of interest and ask questions, I also show restraint sometimes because I want to give a little space. If the woman in front of me were to tell me: "Go ahead, text me 5 times a day and ask me personal questions", I'd be happy to oblige (and indulge). It would be much better than to learn that she dumped me because I was not reaching out enough.

In fact, I had a conversation about this with my IC yesterday. He told me that it's ok to write "I think about you" every now and then. That it would be a problem if I texted her 12 times a day without a response and we're not there. In my case, I'm very afraid of insisting, of imposing. Come to think of it, it might also be an issue for Maybell, the Nice Girl. So go ahead and tell him about being willing to talk about yourself, to answer questions, that you want to make sure he's also interested in you.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/14/15 02:38 PM
So he doesn't take the openings I expect... but he does ask me about myself. So it's a little bit tricky. And sometimes I think my broken places are meeting his broken places and so we're each reacting to that rather than to each other. Or that he's just slightly inept. I was talking about career stuff the other evening and he made the appropriate noises, and then told me a tangentially related anecdote about something similar that happened to a friend of his. I think he meant it as reassurance but it felt a little bit disconnected. And then too, I have a powerful personality and he is quieter. (I'm sure this will shock all of you no end...)

Mozza, your mention of your IC brings something to mind for me -- I haven't been back to IC of any kind since the trauma of last year. The thought of letting myself be emotionally vulnerable to a stranger is unbearable. I'm guessing that's part of my struggle with New Guy. I want to feel like I can trust him so I throw little breadcrumbs and when he doesn't respond the way I expect I take it super personally. He is very attentive otherwise, way more than I ever expected I merited.

I kissed him a week ago. Rather passionately, out of the blue. It had been almost two years since I'd been kissed at all and at that time Mr. Fantastic made it clear that it was a duty performance that was to be repaid with sex. So my whole body started shaking. New Guy interpreted that as me scared and he very sweetly stopped me and said he didn't want me to be too scared. Also that he was nervous himself. And he hasn't kissed me since, though he has given me sweet hugs. I asked him about it six days later and he got a little defensive and mentioned times when he was dating other women and thought things were going well and then he suddenly found himself dumped. It turned into an argument. We ended up glossing it over rather than resolving it, and I still haven't been kissed again.

I'm not looking for marriage potential at this time. I like him and I'm still trying to learn about him. He's distracted by a big project (how much am I making too many excuses???) and I'm not the easiest person in the world. But I'm starting to feel like, if the physical thing doesn't pick up at least a little bit then I may have to call it and move on. That would be disappointing. But I was hoping for someone with a little more of a take-charge attitude.

In other news, Mr. Fantastic fixed my health insurance until my Affordable Care kicks in. I still don't want to be anywhere near him but that helped with my anger against him. It was very scary to think of being unemployed AND uninsured.

Also, I found out yesterday that S7 has been crying from separation anxiety when I go out for an hour here or there and leave D12 in charge. D12 told me about it as I was parking the car at the grocery store last night. I turned around and said "S7, is that right? What's up with that?" And he started almost crying and said he misses me so much when I go. (The kids are all three also very clingy when they come back from time spent with Mr. Fantastic... anyone else deal with this?) So I hugged him a lot and told him I would never, ever leave him, that I would always come back, and that he couldn't change that. He's been sleeping in my bed a LOT. It's like toddler separation anxiety, which kind of breaks my heart because he was always my most confident kid.

I know there's not much to be done about it except just keep reassuring him that I'm not going anywhere and that I love him. It wasn't even worth the effort of being mad at Mr. Fantastic for it because it's just how things are now. But it hurts me to keep seeing how the divorce has hurt the kids in all these different ways. Even if he & I had managed a happy marriage, the kids would have had scars of SOME sort -- nobody gets through childhood unscathed. But I wish there were some way I could circumvent these particular kind of scars, because I can see how they will be so insidious in the kids' adult relationships.
Posted By: raliced Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/14/15 06:17 PM
Maybell-

Yes – this is pretty much every day life for me. Not only do D7 and D4 sleep with me every night they both insist that I sleep in the middle so that they each get a half (which makes my middle of the night potty breaks pretty awkward). I was doing my best to slowly evict them, but it was clearly a subject of great anxiety for D7, who would start bargaining with me about it the moment I picked her up from school. So I finally just told her that I’d like her to sleep in her own bed, but that she can tell me when she is ready, and I won’t bother her about it until then. And low and behold, lately she has actually said of her own volition that she is getting ready to try it.

Neither one of them likes to let me out of their sight, I get a pass to go to the bathroom by myself but that’s about it. If I take the trash out, they generally run to the window to monitor my progress.

My mom helps me out by waiting with D7 for the school bus so that I can leave to work early. In theory she could sleep in a bit, but then I found out she was crying when she woke up and I was already gone so now I wake her up before I leave and spend a few minutes with her.

They both are fine going to their dad’s, but much like yours, they are super clingy when they get back. And D7, who is such a daddy’s girl shocked me the other day. I asked her if she wanted to go to the same soccer camp that she did last year and at first she was wildly enthusiastic, but then said “Wait – does that mean I have to spend a whole week at Dad’s again? I don’t want to do that”.

It seems pretty natural to me. One pillar of their life suddenly disappeared from their everyday existence – so they are going to make sure that doesn’t happen with the other one.
Posted By: Elsa Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/15/15 11:37 AM
Originally Posted By: Mozza
In my case, I'm very afraid of insisting, of imposing.


I think this is the emotional baggage we carry as LBSes. For the last 3 or 4 years of my marriage, I was trained by my ex to view every attempt at contact -- normal, marital contact -- as an intrusion into his headspace. It is going to be a difficult pattern to break.

Maybell, I've also dipped back into the dating pool and am seeing someone who I am 100% sure is interested in me. He plans great dates for us, is very affectionate, initiates contact with me almost daily -- and yet, he rarely asks me any questions about myself. I don't think he's self-centered (far from it, actually), just a nervous dater with a slightly different communication style from my own. So I've done what you've done -- adapted a bit to keep the conversation going. And I'm ok with that, given the other stuff that he's bringing to the table.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/18/15 03:21 PM
Originally Posted By: raliced


It seems pretty natural to me. One pillar of their life suddenly disappeared from their everyday existence – so they are going to make sure that doesn’t happen with the other one.



Yes, I understand that. It really does -- I guess it just sometimes takes me off guard because a lot of the time everything is so smooth and they seem like they're adjusting pretty well.

Last night was VERY ROUGH. D12 sat down to wrap Mr. Fantastic's gifts and S9 asked her to let him wrap one. Hell broke loose. It got very, very angry.

When things settled down (which, I will add, was a LOT quicker and more easily than they would have a year ago), I went in to rub D12's back and talk to her and she said for about the 5th time that she was very unhappy with this year's Christmas arrangements. It's Mr. Fantastic's turn to have the kids on Christmas morning and she is NOT OK with that. As it turns out, she also wanted him to have all those gifts because she is trying to win his affection.

He has broken her heart and he can't even see it.

I asked her if she wanted my help in planning how to talk to him about it and she said there was no point in talking to him about it because it wouldn't change anything -- she'd still have to spend Christmas morning at his house and everything else.

As an adult I know that sometimes just talking things through without any change occurring can be helpful. But I don't know how to convey that to her. She's in that funny space in childhood where she still wants what she wants, like a little kid, but she also is *just about* to get to the place where an open conversation can be healing in itself. She has had basically no say in any of the most important events of her life, so I can see her perspective. I am trying to change that dynamic for her but it's such slow going. If anyone has words of wisdom I would appreciate it.

(also, as an aside, I was talking to New Guy just a little bit about some of this and he said "Can you guide her in how to talk to her dad about that? It will be a useful skill for her when she's got boyfriends in the future..." !! I've never had that kind of interaction with a romantic interest before ever...)

It's been a very eventful week for me and I am so relieved to have a quiet weekend in front of me. And the kids have agreed to start going to church again in the new year which is a relief to me. I couldn't have gotten through the last two years without my faith and I wasn't sure how to guide them into moving in that direction without sounding like a nag in an area where you absolutely can not nag.
Posted By: claire7 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/18/15 05:34 PM
Hey Maybell,

I see so much strength and improvement with your R with your D. That's so great.

I guess they have a process to go through just like us...and it's not linear for them either. The holiday season by nature shoves all sorts of family stuff in our faces. I think it's normal that this would be a particularly tough time, because it's all about family and traditions which have now changed so drastically.

As for what to say to D... what can we say besides, "I'm so sorry you are going through this. I know it [censored], and I'm here to listen or help in any way I can..."

Hugs to you.
Posted By: Underdog Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/19/15 04:05 PM
Maybell,

FWIW, my now D21 had a couple of very rough years with her dad when she was 12. I did and said what I could, and I did a lot of listening to her and yet, she was still angry. I would say that she had a broken heart at that time. I started dating someone I cared for, and it actually got worse - she blamed her dad for putting me in the position of finding someone new. It was a very emotional time for all of us. And I honestly was able to put myself in her shoes and feel the empathy she desperately needed.

In the end, I told her that I needed to put her back into counseling for a little while. I told her there was nothing wrong with her at all, but that I HAD to help her find a way to constructively manage her feelings in a safe place with someone who wouldn't judge her. I got a little push back, but when I told her I thought it wouldn't take very long if she cooperated, she caved. And it was the best thing I did for her. I just couldn't help her get from point A to point B without feeling guilty about what was happening in my house either. I didn't want to put her in the position of being afraid to tell me 100% of her truth.

In the end, she did. But it took being with her IC to get to that point. It really helped her.

What also helped her was that she was playing a sport she adored - volleyball. She took her feelings out on the court, and put that chip on her shoulder to good work. She opted to devote her energy to really working on her game and I believe it was the foundation for her very successful volleyball career. I find it interesting that she was able to channel that anger into a very constructive path.

She's super good at confronting her feelings now. And it has never ceased to amaze me that when she's overwhelmed, she does something physical - like going for a run, or playing some hoops - all very positive ways to get that energy out of her system. Afterward, she's left with what remains, and she either talks it out with us or her friends or makes a list of things she can do to finish. I admire her for doing what I didn't learn how to do until I was in my 40s at such a young age.

Hang in there. She needs your ears more than your wisdom right now. Help her be honest with herself and guide her into a place where she can learn how to soothe herself.

Hugs-
Betsey
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/22/15 02:01 PM
Betsey that was helpful. Thank you.

Last night again she was in a furious angry place. I made her help me with the grocery list for our Christmas celebration and loaded her and S7 in the car to go to the store. (She was significantly more cheerful by the time we finished the shopping, and she was a huge help.)

i asked her in the car what would be the worst that could happen if she just tried to tell him how she felt. She said that he would fix himself a cup of coffee and announce that he was going to take a nap. Then she and S7 both said "But that's not what he's really doing!! He's really going in his room to play on his phone!!"

I asked what happens when he finishes in his room and they said they just ask him for the same thing again and he sighs and says "Fine." And they get whatever they want.

Unless I get guidance otherwise, I don't intend to address this with him but it's disheartening. It's going to make it so much harder for me to navigate discipline in their teen years. The only help for it is that Mr. Fantastic almost certainly will reject flat out any effort they make to move in with him if things get too difficult with me. So mostly I'm just venting here because I doubt there's much solution.

I will say that these things make me so grateful for the divorce. I never expected to feel that way but the difficulty of managing his needs and parenting the kids before he left (before the bombs, even) compared to now is very telling. I guess it's the upside of him not seeing them much, though it doesn't often feel like it.

One thing I've learned from New Guy (who may or may not be running for the hills... But that's another story) is that it would be helpful if I could practice being lighter and more playful. I drove past the old house this morning, as I do every day, and I thought about how hard everything was there, and how glad I was to be out of it. And somehow the cost of those two years suddenly just kind of landed on me, and how hard I had to work to build myself out of that, and how grateful I am to be past it all. Part of the cost of that time was my playfulness. Looking back on family pictures, I used to make homemade slime and collect hundreds of snails to keep in an old fish tank and all kinds of goofy things my mother would never have done. I've lost that to a degree. So that's the next thing I'm going to try to rebuild. My kids need a happy, sturdy mom.

New Guy has drawn back and I can't decide if that's a good thing or not. He has been a nice presence in my life, in a lot of ways. Other things about him are less positive, and I'm not sure if they're deal breakers. It may not matter if he doesn't reach back out. It touches me in a sore spot if he doesn't but I'll try to keep track of the positives of the experience if that's how it turns out.

I appreciate this space for journaling. I've strayed away from DBing in what I talk about here but there's nothing to work with with Mr. Fantastic. I'm trying to use what I've learned on the other people in my life -- and it occurs to me it could be useful with New Guy as well. He's been much more helpful with the kids, even never having met them, than their own dad is, and he's fun too. We'll see what happens.
Posted By: kml Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 12/28/15 07:35 PM
Hey Maybell, just replying here to your post on Mozza's thread.

Yes, after the divorce I dated 3 different "hermits" (middle aged men who were Love Avoidant and had gotten really comfortable being single; we had great times when we were together, but they didn't really want to be a couple, or hear about any of the problems I was facing, or feel obligated in any way.) I think they felt comfortable because I knew they wouldn't ask anything of me, or want more than I could give.

I also dated a couple of guys who were much too young; again, knowing nothing could come of it made it feel safe.

Once I really felt ready for a relationship, I met current BF, who has been tremendously supportive, is present every day, and has no hermit/avoidant tendencies.

I'm glad for all those relationships, and I might not have recognized current BFs stellar qualities if I hadn't had those experiences.

It's important to make sure we're not just repeating old patterns without being aware.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/04/16 09:41 PM
Thank you, kml.

New Guy is looking better and better. Really kind fun and totally different than anyone I've ever known. So I'm sticking it out. He's made it pretty clear that's what he'd like and I'm learning from the situation so I'll toughen up and not slink off because I'm scared. Maybe at some point he'll stop being New Guy and start being My Guy.

I have a couple of job prospects out there, very different from one another. Again, one is super safe and known, but would be a challenge logistically and doesn't pay well. The other one is a big risk but logistically more do-able and potentially pays well. I'm growing more interested in the riskier one, which has made me realize a few things about myself: 1) I like the idea of a little more risk; 2) I think I'm a little more interested in an actual relationship than I knew; 3) YES I CAN -- whatever it is.

We'll see how I feel tomorrow. wink

Now on to the meat and potatoes of why I'm here:

The kids were with Mr. Fantastic this past weekend. Last week S7 was bawling every day over different things he was unhappy about, totally sweating the small stuff. This is very unlike my happy-go-lucky, super-confident, roll-with-the punches youngest child. Last night he came home all excited. Everyone was talking about how much fun they had ice skating with Mr. Fantastic and his girlfriend and her kids. They were all full of it. But as soon as the door closed behind Mr. Fantastic he fell apart, crying about how he didn't get any attention from his dad, etc., and how much he missed him. He asked if he could text his dad and of course I said yes. So he texted "I miss you dad" with several emojis carefully chosen to make sure they looked sad enough. Mr. Fantastic texted back, "Aw, I miss you too, man." and that was it.

D12 came home with a severely sprained finger. In the scheme of things this is not a big deal but it should have been iced because it's really hurting her. She said she thought she needed it but they were at the park and Mr. Fantastic told her she needed to "toughen up" and that they weren't leaving for ice. I told her this morning to make sure she showed the PE teacher because the teacher would have a lot of experience with that sort of injury. PE teacher told her not to do anything that required holding a weight with her hand. Also in consequence of the injury, we aren't going to karate tonight -- punches are beyond her ability at the moment since she can't close her hand.

A few weeks before he moved out in 2014, S9 (then 7) broke his arm at a roller skating party. Mr. Fantastic left me to carry out the first aid while he went and skated the limbo. When I helped S9 into the car Mr. Fantastic told me that I should just make him do it himself, that babying him wasn't going to help him grow into a man. So D12 telling me that Mr. Fantastic told her she needed to toughen up -- and now her finger is black & blue and swollen to almost twice its normal size -- really pushes a button.

Also today, D12 was being appallingly rude about wanting an iphone 6. This is outrageously entitled, and she was slamming doors, lightly cussing (words that would be allowed in this forum but that I frown on in my house from her mouth), kicking things around and generally behaving in a way that would go viral if I shared a video on FB. So I took her existing phone away. Then I texted Mr. Fantastic that I had done so so he would know he couldn't reach her that way. I was treated to several long texts saying that her behavior wasn't acceptable but "we" should come up with a different consequence for her since losing her phone made it difficult for him to keep in touch with her. He suggested I take her Legos, which is a calming activity for her, or her bike, which she hasn't used in 3 weeks because there is something wrong with the gear system and I haven't taken it to the bike doctor yet.

I'm tired of the way his choices impact my life. I did tell him that his convenience wasn't my priority in choosing how to discipline the girl. It was with great difficulty that I restrained from saying anything further. I only refrained because I knew it wouldn't achieve anything. But seriously, how selfish can he be? He won't care for her enough to get ice for her injured finger. He tells her to toughen up. He doesn't want me to discipline her because it inconveniences him when I do. He can't be bothered to spend time with the kids and actually know what they're like or make them feel like he cares about them. And yet I have to parent with this person?

This is mostly venting but if someone has a suggestion or if there is a very limited thing I can say to him to make him understand how his choices impact people, I'm totally open to hearing about it.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/04/16 09:44 PM
And when I say "thank you, kml" I mean -- your feedback was really helpful and I've been referring back to it and thinking it over since you left it, and THANK YOU.

I'm trying to lighten up and just have fun. It's not so easy.
Posted By: kml Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/05/16 12:41 AM
Quote:
now her finger is black & blue and swollen to almost twice its normal size


She needs an xray. Ignore ex's "toughen up" BS and get her seen.

My ex was like that too - he grew up in a family where you never admitted to being sick and the harder you worked, the more you were valued. When I developed health problems during our marriage, he pretty much expected me to just suck it up, had no empathy for what I was going through (and trust me, I am SO not a whiner!).
Posted By: kml Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/05/16 12:44 AM
And, btw - the best part of dating after divorce? EVERY man I dated thought I was fantastic, couldn't understand why my ex would have ever left me, and they all remain friends to this day. It was very life-affirming after living with my ex's negativity for so long.
Posted By: claire7 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/05/16 01:04 AM
Just a quick thought since you asked... maybe the response to making it harder to contact her could be something like, "well, if you want to reach her during the xx days that she's on punishment, you could call the house phone/my phone during xx time. Something like that, just to show you can find a solution that may meet both of your needs?

More later... thanks for updating MB. sounds like there are some exciting things on the horizon!
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/05/16 04:05 PM
Claire, I'm not going to solve his problems for him. The last time my girl lost her phone he made the same complaint and I made those suggestions to him and he chose not to do them. He's a grown up. He can act like one.

And kml, I love your story about the men you dated -- that's lovely! I'm very curious to see how my story turns out.
Posted By: claire7 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/05/16 08:43 PM
Yes I agree you don't need to solve his problems. I just mean for the purpose of the response to his argument, simply reminding him that there are other ways to contact her and she will have the phone back on xx date.

But... to play devils advocate I wonder if you might think about working towards co-parenting more. Maybe set aside some time to discuss what consequences would be that you both can live with, and under what circumstances they would be given.

This is easy for me to say, though I am not at all following this advice, and actually dreading a time when I have to deal with my daughter as a teen.

Of course, on the other hand, you could say, I'm sorry you feel that way. Those other suggestions don't really work for me but thanks for offering them. She will have her phone back on xx and please let me know if there is an emergency.

And don't give it/his complaint another thought. ..
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/07/16 02:08 PM
I had a long talk yesterday with a friend IRL about the parenting situation. She said I needed to have a come-to-Jesus with him about stepping up and parenting more actively, or ask him to take a parenting class. I feel like I'm not capable of having the conversation with him and I'm certain he would blow off the parenting class just as he blew off therapy, and for the same reasons. She also feels like he got off too easily when he walked out on his family.

I'm starting to get a stomachache from thinking about this.

Yesterday afternoon D12 and S9 were screaming at each other because each thought it was their turn to have the one-one date with Mr. Fantastic. A text to Mr. Fantastic moved the argument in S9's favor but D12 dug in her heels and at the end S9 offered to share his evening with her. When I got home I updated Mr. F he said he would apologize to D12 for the mixup.

I lost patience. I told him the apology should be to S9, who gets the least amount of his time and misses him the most. I told him he needed to quit winging it on these one-on-ones and calendar whose turn was whose because I was sick of taking the blowback for his bad choices. Then I shut up because I would have said more and it would not have been constructive.

To his (minor) credit, he did fix the calendar.

He took D12 house hunting with him last week and she informed me that he's considering buying a house that costs the same as the one I had to move out of, but which comes with space for two tenants. One of the two spaces has been occupied by the same tenant for 30 years. All the houses he looked at cost more than the one I'm in and the tenant one is the front runner. Do I need to be concerned about this? Has anyone dealt with that before?

I'm feeling grumpy and heavy today. I think what my friend said yesterday about him walking out with basically no consequences struck a nerve and I'm having a delayed reaction.
Posted By: Underdog Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/07/16 06:47 PM
MB,

Happy New Year!

Quote:
I feel like I'm not capable of having the conversation with him and I'm certain he would blow off the parenting class just as he blew off therapy, and for the same reasons.


I agree with your friend and Claire. Go back to MWD's first step - begin with the end in mind. Communicate clearly. Leave commentary out of the conversation. State facts and ask for help. Be specific, and not emotional. Know what you want and be prepared to negotiate. I don't mean the big stuff, I mean the small stuff.

You can do this.
Posted By: Mozza Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/07/16 09:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
I think what my friend said yesterday about him walking out with basically no consequences struck a nerve and I'm having a delayed reaction.

I have thought about this too because my WW stepped into the charmed life without any impediment on my part and tremendous logistical support from her new colleagues (and OM) and financial support from her parents. I cleared the way, did not share my pain nor anger, etc. So I feel too like she got off very easily and sometimes I wonder how in the world you can cause so much pain and profit from it. I didn't know it was even possible.

I came to the conclusion that it should not matter to me. That I shouldn't think about whether she's happy or not, but simply whether I'm happy and doing well. All energy directed at making her miserable for her hurtful choices is wasted and likely to be a large expense on my part. Just the other day, I honked at a car in a non-emergency situation. I never do this and I was reminded why: instead of forgetting about the incident in a matter of seconds, as usual, I was still stressed and spinning about it 15 minutes later. So, trying to cause harm to others, even when they would deserve it, causes us harm too. You and I don't need it right now. But I completely share your sense of injustice.

As for Mr. Fantastic's housing situation, I'm not sure I understand your question. Why does it matter to you? You seem to compare an awful lot. And it's entirely outside of your control, so likely to cause you pain without gain.
Posted By: claire7 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/07/16 10:58 PM
MB,
Just to add that there *are* some consequences. Your kids will figure him out. He is missing out--big time.

My stbx travels around like we did 10 years ago. I saw some pics of him and his Gf (don't ask. ..). She resembles me a bit (though nearly 10 yes younger!), and the pics really reminded me of when we were in our early 30s-- had enough $$ to travel a bit, but no kids to worry about. Lots of fun weddings and parties to go to,could easily get away for a fun weekend.

Ok, so that's his life. It would be nice to travel a bit more. But would I be willing to give up 80% of my time with my D? He!! No. Not even a chance. He's definitely losing more than me, even though he has more money, more friends, richer friends, more supportive family. It's still no contest.

Don't keep score, and just help your kids work through their emotions. You can't always save them from bad things happening, and it's so terrible that he is not there for them more. But you can help them deal with their emotions. You can only control you.

Hang in there my beautiful friend. You are an amazing mom and woman. (((MB)))
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/09/16 06:41 AM
WRT his living situation, I just have some reservations about him taking on tenants in the home he'll share with my kids. But I suppose I can't do anything about it, and the fact he's sharing them with his girlfriend 25-50% of the small amount time he has them should concern me just as much and I've gotten my head around that, so...
Posted By: claire7 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/12/16 09:04 PM
Hey MB,

Just checking in. How are you doing? What's your concern about the tenants (I can assume what they may be, but want to push you to name them.) There is a certain level of trust that we have to have wrt how they parent our kids, right? What *would* make you feel more comfortable? A background check? Getting to meet them? This is an honest question, because I wonder if a way to resolve it is to name your concerns AND a solution that could feel reasonable to him?

(This is a good thinking exercise for me, too. I just got off the phone with stbx for our first official "scheduling phone call". Ugh. The thought of having to have those conversations with him for 15 more years is not pleasant. And that was just a logistical conversation! Not even about anything of substance regarding raising our kid!! So, I'm trying to use your situation as a way to think through my own-- sometimes it's easier to think about someone else's life in a more objective way, you know?)
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/13/16 09:34 AM
Hi, Claire,

One of the tenants has been in the house for 30 years or so. I'm not so worried about that. The other one unit is technically part of the house and the house would need to be modified to accommodate that person. Mr. Fantastic is a) utterly inexperienced at that sort of work, since I'm the one who always took care of it and b) totally lazy about that sort of thing unless there is a compellingly self-serving reason for him to do the work.

But this is totally irrelevant to me and not really on my radar lately. It upset me at the time because D12 insisted on showing me the houses on the internet.

I don't do anything by live voice with Mr. Fantastic. I operate SOLELY through email & text. This helps me maintain distance from him, and even then if the contact continues for too long I find myself losing my cool. I also don't attempt to co-parent -- we are "parallel parenting." I could make agreements with him all day long about how to parent the kids but at the end of the day I can't control his actions, and his actions have already shown me that he's fine with agreeing with me on some point and then behaving entirely differently when he's in the moment. It would just be an opportunity to raise resentment.

Thinking about Betsey's comment about asking for what I want, and thinking about a parenting class... I'm unkind. I carried him for so long and I'm still carrying a huge chunk of his responsibility... I don't want him to succeed. That's wrong of me, I know. But I am human and I don't want any good to come to him from how he treated me. I need to process that thought and try to be better.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/15/16 09:52 AM
QUESTION:

Mr. Fantastic has told D12 (not me) that now that he's getting ready to move into a house rather than his 2BR apartment that he'd like to have her keyboard, which has been in my basement waiting for her to return to piano lessons. He also asked me for an iPad that had been used by S7 but has been replaced by a newer one for the little guy. I actually have a use for the old iPad, but mostly I'm tired of him not seeing that we are DIVORCED and his days of shopping for free stuff at my house are OVER.

I actually am open to giving him the keyboard because it doesn't look like D12 is going back to lessons (she stopped for a while because we left California, but I've never been able to get her to go back), but I don't want to give it to him because I feel like that opens the door to him just asking for stuff (like the iPad).

Complicating this is the fact that he scheduled a plane trip back from a business trip in such a way that he will be at least an hour late picking the kids up for his weekend and it is messing up my Friday evening plans. He had given me notice that this would be the case (told, not asked...) and I'd like to make it clear that I will not tolerate this every time he has a trip -- he has four coming up and it's not fair that they should interfere with my free time.

Finally.... things with New Guy have intensified and I'd like to be able to spend more time with him. My kid schedule makes that very difficult, and I feel guilty about the conflict between being a good, present mom for them and wanting to spend time with someone who has demonstrated that he cares for me and that he wants to spend time with me. Seeing how Mr. Fantastic's dating life impacts the kids' emotions has made me super aware of their needs and I do NOT want to cause them any more pain or anxiety because of my relationship... but on the other hand, he spends FOUR days a month with them and I spend 26 days a month with them, and so how do I balance between my needs and theirs?

Any advice on these two (three?) issues would be very greatly appreciated.
Posted By: Georgiabelle Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/15/16 10:40 AM
Hi MB,

Just catching up. Admittedly, I am definitely not the person to ask about balancing dating, child rearing, and working full time. However, I have my kids at least 26 days a month as well. So, I can only offer this.

Your kids are young. Yes, you should pursue a relationship with someone you like if that is what you want. Many will probably disagree with this line of thinking, however, my kids are still struggling. They struggle with their dad's behavior. And while I have exactly zero desire to fix him, I feel like I need to be their anchor. Perhaps that is why dating is on the back burner for me. Because, regardless of whether I met someone fantastic, my top priority is my children. And honestly, I don't have much time to devote to a relationship. Do I think it would be nice to go to dinner with someone, watch sports, or just grab a drink? I do. I just know that I don't have the time to commit to a relationship. Perhaps when my kids get a bit older. That is just me though.

I think asking your H to step up is going to be a moot point. He is a big boy and deep down inside knows what he is doing which is putting himself first. I think you either have to get a baby sitter and possibly accept that at least for another year or so, you may not have as much time to devote to a R as you would like. That doesn't mean you can't have one. Not at all! Just be up front with New Guy. Just remember that everything is fluid. The way it is today isn't always the way it will be.

I dunno. That wasn't much help was it? Just my 2 cents. Sounds like you are doing well!
Posted By: Mozza Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/18/16 02:36 PM
I had a similar situation with WW asking for stuff from the apartment months after leaving. It was never much and it stopped soon enough, but my plan was to tell her: "OK, you do one last round and then it's over."

It is important that you take care of yourself because it will make you better for everyone else. That's what I learnt in therapy and some reading. It seems to be a lesson I hear over and over: "Love yourself enough to be kind to yourself".

You've felt responsible for your parents, MrFantastic, your kids, your boss, etc. You are a Nice Girl. You feel guilty when you take care of yourself as if it's an act of selfishness. Hopefully, you will not see the opposition between making yourself happy and taking care of your kids, no more than you see the opposition between sleeping and taking care of them. You need one to do the other.

This New Guy seems to bring you a lot, to make you feel good and happy. It looks like a nice source of energy and motivation for you. Something to be excited about and that will put the antics of Mr Fantastic into perspective. Carve a little space for yourself: everyone will be grateful.

"Things with New Guy have intensified" - how I wish you would unpack this... wink
Posted By: Ggrass Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/18/16 08:13 PM
What mozzarella said.... The new guy?

Just don't feel too. I have like you need to do all the heavy lifting with the new guy. If he's keen he needs to understand their is children in the mix and fit in to a degree.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/18/16 09:24 PM
New Guy is great. Very sweet. I got super frustrated about something about him and he stopped everything to talk it through with me, resolve the problem, and set up ways to make sure we communicate about issues before they're huge problems in the future. Another time I was having an issue D12 and he said "I want to be supportive." He talks to me about his feelings and tells me what he wants, but helpfully, not with judgment. He asks about me and tells me about him. He can be vulnerable and he behaves protectively. I've met several of his friends (and we have a couple of mutual friends too). Every time I freak out about something I work to be patient and it plays out the way I hoped it would, not as I feared it would. He likes me and he can say why. I really enjoy spending time with him. He thinks differently than I'm used to and I like hearing how his mind works. He knows how to do things I find interesting, and there's just enough overlap in our experience that I feel like I have something to offer. He tells me about people who are important to him, mentions a particular good point, and then says, "just like you" -- meaning he finds commonalities between me and the people who matter to him, which I find very flattering.

For my part, I find him insightful, kind, friendly, and funny. There are things about his history that make me want to comfort him, and times now when I want to nurture and care for him. I'm really looking forward to introducing him to more of my friends and to a time (months away, I know) when I can introduce him to my kids. We are interested in similar things but we see them from very different angles, which I find so refreshing.

The other day I said, "If you'd taken that path we would never have met," and he quickly said, "You don't know that!" I feel like he cares about me. Everything has gone so much slower with him than it did with Mr. Fantastic and I am glad. But it's still clicking along at a pace I find surprising. He talks about places he'll take me over the summer.

It's been two months. I smile when I think about him. I can't wait to see him. But I'm still maintaining my own activities and goals because I know how important that is. I am enjoying seeing how everything plays out. I am worried about either of us getting hurt but hopeful it won't happen that way.

Unpacked enough? wink I feel like a teenager gushing about her guy.
Posted By: Bobbyb Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/19/16 02:54 AM
Maybell I'm right there with you.
My divorce was final almost 2 months ago now.
We don't have any kids together so there is no need for contact.
I am in the phase of reading everything on how to get your ex back. While also trying to move on and improve myself.
When my wife left, about 2/3 of the household income left with her. I am left with a large debt that we both acquired. So I find myself working 7 nights a week.
I know the feeling of wanting to sleep. I have done that quite a lot. It just lets you not have to deal with anything.
I heard depression let's you catch up on your sleep. (Woody Allen or maybe it was Jerry Seinfeld)
Posted By: Vanilla Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/20/16 02:51 AM
Maybell

Could I ask you to be a sweetheart and check in on this newcomer for me.

I can support although wise words froM a parent would be much better.

five kids one on the way S and distressed children

Thank you

V
Posted By: Ggrass Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/20/16 03:41 AM
Go you mayb, and look if you read my thread where the bf came in I was the same.

It's was pretty x rated for some time, now irl mundane has streets to creep in and work and jobs and stuff, but you know what the basics haven't changed.

Time is your friend and nothing needs to be decided today in a week in a month. It will work out how it is meant to. Maybe in 2 years a decision will come but not now.
Posted By: Mozza Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 01/22/16 04:28 PM
Turns out today WW did ask for something she had left behind (a grill) and I replied it was too late to pick stuff from my place (she left 16 months ago). She replied along the lines of "Oh I figured if you didn't use it..." As if we were buddies swapping stuff. They really have no idea of the impact they had. Anyway, I bet this is the last I hear from her on picking things left behind. I hope you'll find your formula to cut short on these requests.

I'm glad to see that you're enthusiastic about New Guy. Every relationship has good and bad reasons, highs and lows, things to fix and others to nurture. We all come with baggage. My IC told me that the separation is often the continuation of the R, but dating has taught me that every relationship is also the continuation of the previous one. I've had women react strongly to something that seemed banal to me, only to realize that it had to do with past relationships. Do I need to say it? Communication is the key. Love is not all you need. There will be arguments, disappointments, frustrations, despite our experience and newfound wisdom. We can't do perfect, but we can aim for better.
Posted By: Maybell Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 02/07/16 08:27 AM
It has come to my attention that Mr. Fantastic's girlfriend is very likely sleeping around on him. The person who let me know this is in a position to document. (She is single and had a run in with the gf at a bar when she was flirting with someone -- the gf made a point of commenting on how much "fun" she'd had with him... This led to bad feelings and now my friend is attentive when she runs into the gf, which is frequently.)

Should I let Mr. Fantastic know about it if evidence turns up or should I let him find out the hard way? He spends half of every one of his weekends with the kids with this woman and her kids, to the point that mine are starting to think of hers as step-siblings. Also he's under contract on a house that's equivalent to the one he and I jointly owned before the divorce and the general opinion of my acquaintances is that he intends to move her straight from living with her husband into the new house. I try to stay silent on the subject but my kids are involved.

I feel like I should just stay out of it, since Mr. Fantastic is clearly making bad decision after bad decision and the kids WILL be impacted by it regardless of my involvement. On the other hand, to let him walk into a minefield without raising a warning feels cruel and almost vengeful.
Posted By: claire7 Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 02/07/16 08:34 AM
This is a tough situation, MB... but I can't imagine he would respond to you in a positive way. Yes, it will suck for your kids to deal with a loss if it comes to that. .. helping them through tough times IS your business... but I don't think his relationship with his gf is.

If he gets hurt you don't have to revel in it... but I would personally stay far away from this. I think it would make you sound petty and bitter. I mean, why would your friend even tell you about this? What was her goal? Is she HIS friend? Maybe she should tell him herself? I can't really tell what her angle is.
Posted By: job Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 02/07/16 08:37 AM
Maybell,
If I were in your shoes, I would stay out of it for now. Your xh is making a lot of bad decisions, but those decisions are the lessons he needs to learn in order to grow up.

I don't know if your xh would appreciate you telling him this stuff. He may look at it as if you are trying to break up his lovely little love nest. If you were to say something to him, he could actually tell the gf that you advised him of the situation, which could make things ugly and uncomfortable for the when the children are over there.

Now, if the situation turns ugly and it starts to affect the children, then I would say something...but for now, sit quietly and allow this mess to unfold.
Posted By: job Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 02/07/16 08:37 AM
Maybell,
It's also time to start a new thread.
Posted By: Wonka Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 02/07/16 08:41 AM
Maybell,

You two are divorced. You just cannot run to Mr. Fantastic's rescue for every bad choice he's made. After all he left you and had OW. Let him fall on his own sorry ass and experience what you went through for himself. That is Lady Karma doing her job. Get out of the way and when the sh!t hits the fan over there, you can provide support to your kiddos. A truly teachable moment for all involved. Sit back and let it all unfold naturally.
Posted By: Wonka Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 02/07/16 08:43 AM
Hey Job, we cross-posted. Great minds think alike. And the edit button is baaaack!!
Posted By: raliced Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 02/07/16 09:00 AM
Maybell, Given what you have written about both your X and his new girlfriend - it doesn't sound like their relationship has much of a chance regardless of whether or not he finds out about her extracurricular activities. Neither one of them sounds terribly stable. Most likely there will be a blow up sooner or later. The house is his problem. Unfortunately your kids will probably have to get used to having people come and go from their lives - and you can help them with that.
Posted By: job Re: Maybell XXXVII: Unpacking - 02/07/16 03:28 PM
New Thread:

Maybell XXXVIII: Settling In
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