X demands full custody because I'm engaged, Part 2

Yes Virginia, there is a Posting Clause and I apologize for exceeding its limit.

Gabby, our situation is "joint shared custody" it's the most perfect 50/50 in our state. We alternate "from week to week" and since we've been swapping Mondays after school for her to take them from my custody without my permission on a Sunday evening was violating the court order. That was the conclusion of the responding police that evening. The court order states no specific time of day custody is transferred but since she removed them one day early against my wishes and instruction she is in violation. If a specific time of day had been documented they said they could have charged her with a crime and removed the children from her and returned them to me.

I can only assume from your comment you have a higher (even if only slightly) degree of custody of your children than your X. If the situation you describe existed everywhere then X's could remove children everytime they attended a birthday party, field trip, sleepover or attended school without the custodial parent's presence.

Gabby, here's another factor. When she first blew up at me on the phone she said she was coming to my house to get the children. I told her she could not and it was "my time" with them. I continued telling her they weren't home with me anyway at that moment because I was sick. She then demanded to know where they were and I told her they were at fiancee's and that I was going to pick them up from fianc�e at 8:00 PM (fianc� and I had agreed to that time). X then went to fianc�e's and took the children without my permission or approval. The kids and I lost Christmas Eve time together and tradition of several years due to her action.

It's not. Our custody agreement is very brief and simple, if not ambiguous due to the 50/50 situation. Ambiguous that a time of day and location is not specified for transfer of custody from week to week, simple that there are few situations addressed.

She has violated the requirement to keep me informed of medical issues as she has unilaterally begun to take kids to a counselor without informing me ( I discovered by accident due to an appointment scheduled during "my time"). She says she is taking them for "blended family issues they have" although I suspect the only issues are X's due to my and fianc�e's family being blended. I suspect she is stirring the pot and fishing for something to file for full custody when we are we'd. She often opines concern for our kids safety when I am wed and has declared her children will never live under the same roof as fianc�e's. There is no justification for such as X and I have dated for 4 years and our kids have been around each other for 3 years even going on camping trips (separate cabins or tents) during that time.

Control issues, jealousy, phobias, projected childhood experiences? Who knows?

sleeper, probably all of the above. In a sitch like yours where your X is violating the custody order, I would suggest putting your plans in email with your X. Decide ahead of time, a week or 2 before the holidays what your plans will be and inform your X of them by email. This also gives you a handy record you can use for court if it would ever come to that.

Also, when she calls you are not required to give her an itinerary of where your kids are or what they are doing imo. Also, I do not believe your X can do anything about custody regarding you marrying, unless your fiancee is a drug addict or convicted felon or something that would endanger your children in some way. Peace,

Karen

Scylla and Charybdis.....

Tomorrow will be the first time in years I will have my kids for New Years Eve. X prompted kids to text/call me this PM requesting they go to her friends house for NYE celebration. DD was invited for sleepover with her "friend" ( long story ). X texted/called as well. I declined the requests.

Bottom line...DD wants badly to go, called back crying. DD's "friend" is a bad influence who stole from her. X wants DD to go because "friend's" father is friend of OMH.

I held my ground, saying no, looking like the bad guy.

Can your daughter do her own sleep over with a different friend? And have you spoken to her about friendships and how a real friend doesn't steal from others?

It's normal maturing teenager teachable moment as far as I'm concerned. I was pleased X and I agreed on response last summer when "friend" stole from DD (and X too). Now we disagree but I'm going to do what I think is right.

I admit I'm biased b/c I'm a L (but a nice person!)

but wouldn't most of this be solved by seeing a Lawyer and getting it ALL hammered out?

I only saw this recent thread so maybe I missed some of your w's objections...but unless your fiancee is somehow unfit (UNlikely)

then your Xwife will have few arguments to make in favor of HER getting more custody.

Judges have seen this type of reaction before; sadly, it's not that unusual.

With a wacky ex like yours, I'd think of spending the money on a lawyer as "family insurance" and peace of mind , so that your new marriage can have that many FEWER problems...

and with an ex like yours, NOT getting this formally worked out is almost reckless. Good luck and Happy New Year, and I mean it!

"reckless"? I've been told the lawyer that represented me in the D "sucked" and you're absolutely right. "Good fences make good neighbors".

well you are not married to the lawyer you had. So you can hire a new one for modifications of your decree. Get referrals from friends who were satisfied with their D lawyers. And hire someone from a firm w/resources, rather than a solo practitioner b/c, in my opinion, it helps.

Except for the actual divorce itself, almost every aspect of a divorce can be modified, under the right circumstances.

In your D, it sounds as if you had very few details worked out, so you're not even changing anything so much as just clarifying the unknowns.

Quote:

...not married to the lawyer you had...

That's some funny stuff. It reinforces how some of us (the ones who come to these boards) take things like marriage commitment seriously and others don't.

No, I'm not married to my L. She was a member of a firm but I think she has left them. My X's L was a member of the top shark divorce mill in town. X paid thousands more than me but would you believe those two L's overlooked mistakes in the financial portion of the settlement?!?! Those have been corrected (thank GOD) and they (and the judge?!?!) overlooked a typo that I was to pay X a tidy sum each month in addition to her getting all the assets while I took 1/2 the debt (business and personal). That had to be corrected when I bought back the house that was originally in my name only, on my credit only from X so could qualify for a new loan. I should sue my L AND the judge (my L didn't look out for my interests, the judge apparently can't do math cause the figures of the financials reveal no way for me to carry such a debt). I can't reach my L anymore and as for the judge, I don't even remember her name although it's on the papers.

I only wanted my kids 50/50 and that's what I got. On paper, as ambiguous at it is.

DD is a smart cookie who asked years ago why "mom got the house, the business and the best car." DD wasn't happy with me about the sleepover denial (coincided and intertwined with custody swap) but we had a long talk this AM. I answered her question of why I let her mother have everything but her and her brother (they are the only thing I wanted). I think she finally gets it.

Yes, I will press for specification of custody transfer.

I hope somebody (including lawyers and judges) learns from my experience.

Originally Posted By: sleeper

Quote:

...not married to the lawyer you had...

That's some funny stuff. It reinforces how some of us (the ones who come to these boards) take things like marriage commitment seriously and others don't.

No, I'm not married to my L. She was a member of a firm but I think she has left them. My X's L was a member of the top shark divorce mill in town.

No offense, really. But most people think their former spouses hired "sharks" and I don't know any spouses who think they pay "too little in child support/alimony".

Most feel that they got ripped off. It's human nature to see things with our own biases,

Also, who forced you to hire your lawyer? At what point did you begin to feel dissatisfied with her representation, but continue to retain her? See where I"m going with this?

X paid thousands more than me but would you believe those two L's overlooked mistakes in the financial portion of the settlement?!?!

Are you saying b/c she paid more, she ought to have gotten more? It actually Sounds as if she did get more, hearing your version here.

But fwiw, missing a mistake on the financial portion, if it helped HER< is probably not something her lawyer would point out. It's your job and your lawyer's to do the math for you. I don't know why you agreed to giving all this away to her unless you had deep fears about losing the kids or she had something to hold over you...from what you say here, it's odd.

Fwiw, I've caught errors in our closing documents for purchases of our homes, three different times. Each mistake would have cost us thousands. (God only knows how many mistakes I missed). My h is an MD and a smart man. He missed the errors too. Always read what you sign, carefully.

Those have been corrected (thank GOD) and they (and the judge?!?!) overlooked a typo that I was to pay X a tidy sum each month in addition to her getting all the assets while I took 1/2 the debt (business and personal). That had to be corrected when I bought back the house that was originally in my name only, on my credit only from X so could qualify for a new loan.

just for the record, all this^^ is what you agreed to, right? So why bring it up now? Why is it relevant?

I should sue my L AND the judge (my L didn't look out for my interests,

(SIGH)

how did they Not look out for your interests? You just said you "only wanted the kids" and that is exactly what you got.

the judge apparently can't do math cause the figures of the financials reveal no way for me to carry such a debt). I can't reach my L anymore and as for the judge, I don't even remember her name although it's on the papers.

I only wanted my kids 50/50 and that's what I got.

So you're grateful you got the kids --

Or are you still angry that a judge didn't ask you if you could really afford a mistaken number on a document, which he assumed you and your lawyer had read?? (No It's not his job to add up the numbers to something you agreed to, and decide if HE thinks YOU can afford it...that's your job/your lawyer's job and since it was a math ERROR, it's not important now, is it?)

Since you're not grateful you got the kids, you must be bitter/regretful b/c you let your emotions, anger, & fears of losing the kids, interfere with rational business making decisions....You're not the first person to do that.

But you ought to own up to the choices you made and the reasoning behind them, at the time.

Before I met my h, my late MIL divorced my fil. She told me repeatedly, (and this was a full decade later) that at the time, "all she wanted was OUT of the marriage"...

so they sold the house. Her lawyer pushed for her to get half of the profits but she didn't even want that delay of the divorce to debate it, AT ALL...fortunately her lawyer prevailed in that one respect, and she got half the house profits

(w/18 years of marriage)....

See, she reacted quite emotionally to her divorce situation, and she really tied her lawyer's hands. She could not handle any delay or conflict or escalation.

Years later, she realized she could have fought, and won, half of her ex h's military retirement. But nope, at the time, "all she wanted was OUT as soon as possible" and that is what she got.

But later, she often complained to me about her "lousy lawyer". She never seemed to connect the dots.

She wanted out asap, and that meant her lawyer could not do anything that would delay the process, (which fighting for assets tends to do.)

In her later years, she worked 2 jobs to make ends meet, whereas my FIL invested his retirement income, and is now a self made millioinaire.

My older sister settled for much less than she could have gotten after 22 years of marriage & 3 kids and her working full time the whole time....whereas my younger sister got a MUCH better deal, with a 13 year marriage, no kids, and never working during the marriage.

Go figure.

I know It's not fair, but it's what she/they chose at the time. It's what happens when you let your emotions dictate your financial decisions.

Sometimes it leads to buyer's remorse, which is what I think I see in your words. But imo, it's not really fair to blame your xw or the lawyers for what you agreed to.

Maybe your lawyer tried to tell you to fight for the property more, maybe the "sharks" threatned to drag things out, maybe you didn't listen carefully enough until the day you actually read the documents

OR maybe you insisted then, as you do today, that "all [you] want is the children!"...and that would make it sound as if that really was your priority.

Buf if that was your priority, why complain now about the property? Do you see how it makes you sound?

On paper, as ambiguous at it is.

DD is a smart cookie who asked years ago why "mom got the house, the business and the best car."

Although I believe none of this ought to be discussed with the children, since you chose to do so anyhow, did you tell your d that the reason your ex w "got the house, business and best car" is b/c YOU agreed to that? B/C after all, that is the truth.

DD wasn't happy with me about the sleepover denial (coincided and intertwined with custody swap) but we had a long talk this AM. I answered her question of why I let her mother have everything but her and her brother (they are the only thing I wanted). I think she finally gets it.

So, the talk about the sleepover lead your daughter to ask you about a property settlement of years ago? Um, okay...but

Let me get this straight. You "ONLY wanted your kids 50% of the time" and you got that. That is what you wanted.... So, what's with all the complaining and talk of suing your Ls?

Sounds as if you instructed your lawyer to get the kids half time, which she did. Now you're mad b/c you think you could have gotten a better deal. Your wife spent more and she got more....you mock her lawyers for missing a math error (that maybe helped HER) and yet you call them sharks...

You evidently read your divorce agreement carefully b/c you caught errors others missed...but you're angry b/c you think you could have gotten a better deal.

I see this a lot. I just think you ought to own your choices more. Think about why you did what you did and what was going thru your mind. I'm not saying you were a fool at all.

But you sound bitter now, and you are blaming others for the choices YOU made. No one forced you hire the lawyer you hired, who then got you "all that you wanted"... I think you are revising things and letting yourself off the hook for your own mistakes, made in the heat of an emotionally trying time.

Please, since I think you sound very bitter, be mindful of parental alienation (bad mouthing your ex) b/c courts frown on it a lot. In our state, you can lose custody over it.

Plus, it makes you sound hypocritical...You claim, twice here, to have gotten what you wanted.

Then you say no one "watched out" for your interests & then you say her shark lawyers got so much of your property, but you read the agreement (carefully!) and you signed it...

Imo, you can't be the hero who made the kids is sole priority -

AND THEN whine that your lawyer and the judge should have looked out for your financial interests more.

I do not know your situation or why the divorce happened. I know your ex w SOUNDS terrible now.

But I also see you blaming others for choices you made.

Yes, I will press for specification of custody transfer.

I hope somebody (including lawyers and judges) learns from my experience.

Me too.

2 x 4 accepted (and internalized)

I'm on my phone so unable to reply fully but I will say this; I wanted DD to realize how much she and DS mean to me (more than ANYTHING) and that was the reason I made reference to her remark about X getting all assets in the D. It was a question she has asked several times over the years but to which I never really responded until a couple of days ago. I think she understands now, that she and her brother are all that matters to me. At least there has been a definate change in her attitude.

I don't speak badly of X or OMH to the children.

Yes, I made emotional choices and instructed L, on more than one occasion, my goal in the D was "damage control." (lots of possible interpretations there).

X and I both "got what we wanted." In truth, I think NOW we both have some level of "buyers remorse" as you opined. When your spouse is only interested in partying/traveling and willing to leave your young children with ANYONE to do so it's a normal parental response to want them with you as much as possible. Especially when it was a friend of hers that raped your 35 mo old daughter while babysitting (following parole hearing last summer he has 13 years more to serve if he's not paroled).

Hindsight is always 20/20.

My lawyer? She was young. X's lawyer? He was mature and experienced. The judge? She was somewhere in the middle and clueless.

I really don't hold them accountable for the outcome.

The only L for which I have any annimosity is the pedophile rapist's who pleaded with the judge, "Your honor, but no one has been hurt!"

It is what it is.

Originally Posted By: sleeper

2 x 4 accepted (and internalized)

I'm on my phone so unable to reply fully but I will say this; I wanted DD to realize how much she and DS mean to me (more than ANYTHING) and that was the reason I made reference to her remark about X getting all assets in the D. It was a question she has asked several times over the years but to which I never really responded until a couple of days ago. I think she understands now, that she and her brother are all that matters to me.

Not to belabor the point, but given your other remarks about the ex 'getting everything" and how you wanted to sue the lawyers AND the judge for "not looking after" your interests, & them missing things that all got repaired,

is it really true that the kids are all that matter to you? You say it often, but you say other things just as often and they contradict this, so you sound very conflicted.

At least there has been a definate change in her attitude.

I don't speak badly of X or OMH to the children.

Really? Not even the ex w's husband? Well, You just implied that their mother cared more about the property settlement than you did, b/c "all you cared about" was getting them -which we know implies a contrast between you and her...

Truly, don't you think the comparison was obvious AND intended? Even if only subconsciously, surely you must recognize that you are indeed competing, to her detriment...and in my honest opinion to THEIR detriment...yes these comments hurt your children more than you realize.

Each parent is part of each child, in terms of DNA that's literally true. So, Disliking or resenting a parent, means disliking part of ourselves... it does affect our own self esteem while we are children, even mature kids get hurt by the inferences drawn.

I don't think you are a "bad guy",okay? But I do think you are unaware of issues you have that are still quite active and NOT "resolved".

Yes, I made emotional choices and instructed L, on more than one occasion, my goal in the D was "damage control." (lots of possible interpretations there).

lawyers are not mind readers. WHen we have a relatively educated or articulate client, we expect they'll tell us what they want. No guessing games. The "lots of possible intrepretations" isn't likely if you are clear enough. If they're not clear, they'll ask. I think you said what you meant and they followed suit and you now wish you had made different choices. MANY people wish that, but own it.

Your blame game sounded too imbalanced to me. Don't mistake my comment. I have seen legal malpractice more than once. IT's a disgrace.

But your version of events just sounded like you carefully read a document that you then signed, and now regret. Period.

But you got the thing you say you wanted...so again, I'd ask what the complaint is

AND WHY you hired an attorney without a lot of experience? Many youthful lawyers do have experience and not all older ones do.

I've asked twice for a reason, WHY did you hire that attorney?

X and I both "got what we wanted." In truth, I think NOW we both have some level of "buyers remorse" as you opined. When your spouse is only interested in partying/traveling and willing to leave your young children with ANYONE to do so

this ^^MAY an accurate form of mind reading but it's still mind reading, which is unprovable AND negative...(="parental alienation")

it's a normal parental response to want them with you as much as possible.

you mind read with her (negatively) and then defend yourself to portray yourself as justified/sympathetic, and then below, you pull out the "raped d" as a trump card you seem to feel only serves your custody battle. I don't mean to minimize this, as one of my d's was sexually assaulted at college and it's a big big deal...

But the grief is not yours alone; it's your d's and it's your wife's too. I'm sure she was traumatized by this too...

Also the incident with your d isn't relevant to much of this now, is it?

Surely none of it has to do with the property settlement, so that dead issue should stay in the ground b/c it's STILL BOTHERING YOU....

and that is on you my friend.

As unforgiving as you make your ex w out to be, you sound right in there with her.

Let the past go, for YOUR sake, and your family's. And your future marriage.

Especially when it was a friend of hers

so it's your x wife's fault here too? Do you see the pattern here? It's very very clear.

You think she "should have known" this would happen? Were you there? Regardless, these things are NOT nearly as predictable as we hear, when it comes to people without prior records. There's always the first time, and that's very bad luck.

I hope your d is alright now and that YOUR anger and pain do not pollute her recovery...

That's something the support group my h & I attended after our d was assaulted. (I Hope you and your ex w attended some meetings b/c they really help)

THey told us to work thru OUR pain and anger and model that for her without minimizing it for her. HER experience was worse and unique of course

BUT if all she saw US feeling was more victimization and or anger, or the desire for revenge (heavily present in me and my h) that would NOT HELP HER...she had to be the priority, not our "Righteous anger/indignation/pain"....make sense?

Though her attacker was convicted, I believe that if she'd not been so injured AND if there'd not been some ideal witnesses (literally a professor and a nun, grad student who saw part of the attack) who knows what our system might have done to our d? It was bad enough as it was...

that raped your 35 mo old daughter while babysitting (following parole hearing last summer he has 13 years more to serve if he's not paroled).

Hindsight is always 20/20.

you need to let go of this resentment against your wife. It's unfair AND worse, it is poisonous to you in ways you can't even see, AND it's poisonous to your family and is a terrible thing to hold against your wife.

SOME bad things happen even when we're careful. And yes, HINDSIGHT is always 20 20...but not foresight. No wonder your wife is paranoid about your fiancee. You have taught her NOT to trust any stranger

and besides, it's ironic you'd find this hard for her when you are bringing up the same thing, ie a "stranger babysitting your kids" that SHE is bringing up.

I realize your fiancee is not a rapist. I get that. But she's new to your kids, relatively. I doubt the rapist babysitter was a "total" stranger,

so in a weird way there is an analogy between your wife's bad babysitter fears, and your resentment of what happened in the past.

My lawyer? She was young. X's lawyer? He was mature and experienced. The judge? She was somewhere in the middle and clueless.

as "Unobjective" as you sound in your legal analysis, who stopped you from hiring an experienced lawyer and forced you to hire a young woman lawyer? Was she cute?

I really don't hold them accountable for the outcome.

so you changed your mind from earlier? Good...So who is accountable? I know it sukks to "say" it out loud, but I'm telling you that important lessons get learned when we own our lives and choices.

It's a big step toward taking charge of our lives, which is our job.

The only L for which I have any annimosity is the pedophile rapist's who pleaded with the judge, "Your honor, but no one has been hurt!"

if that's an actual ^^ quote, it's a very odd one. I doubt it went over well in court too, so in a way, that's a bit of justice.

I once saw a rapist tell the judge that in the future the defendant (just got convicted of rape NOW saying his "apology") that he'd "use better judgement about who [he]'d associate with in the future"...

I shook my head in disbelief. THAT was the "remorseful statement"? Oh, he got the max sentence...guess he really will use better judgement about who he associates with, in prison...

It is what it is.

so it is.

Good luck, try to stay in the present. It really helps all concerned. I'm not referring to the rapist when I say the rest of this below, except as it relates to not focusing on victimhood...or the past.

But if you continue to harp on the past injustices, real or imagined,

you'll teach your children to hold grudges, to never know or see what real forgiveness is or looks like, (they will need that skill) and you will show them how NOT to get past a bad event or set back,

and a lot of other lessons you could INSTEAD teach the opposite of.

lessons such as...
love, committment, compassion, forgiveness, redemption, joy in the moment, rebuiding trust,

and that inside most healthy people, are good hearts wanting to give and receive love...Make sense?

sleeper...

the judge is not morally obligated to read over everything in the paperwork..that is your lawyer's job.

clearly she didn't do that...

if she worked for a firm, you can go back to the firm and question it (as she represented the firm)

but that is up to you

if you choose not to, then you also need to choose to let it go

25years,

Thank you for giving me a great deal of food for thought. And yes, the pedophile's lawyer DID say that, word for word. I think he said it during a motion his client be allowed to live with his parents during the trial (bail hearing, long story). His legalese logic was probably no conviction yet = no one has been proven to have been hurt. I could write a book: police admitted they could have arrested perp for lesser crimes against children before he raped our daughter but decided not to so the could arrest him for something bigger when he offended, DA was on vacation when perp raped DD so police wouldnt arrest until DA returned and authorized arrest, DA decided to let perp leave state to spend Xmas with his family in exchange for confession to lesser crimes, DA telling us what happens to children in another state wasn't his concern (I'll stop there). I was doing pretty well until the probation hearing brought a lot of this back up.

Figgeroni,

I have had a virus (flu?) for two weeks now. I think the vagueness of the custody decree becoming an issue lately brought back up issues I have with my L's performance. Her firm was reccomended to me by my supervisor at the time. My supervisor's husband (at the time) is a judge. The primary of the firm and my supervisor are sorority sisters. I thought I was getting a solid legal reference and would receive excellent "counsel" and representation. Now a patrol officer tells me I need more specifics in the custody papers.

it's not that everyone has to have each detail of custody spelled out, b/c then there's zero flexibility in your arrangements. That can sukk...

But in YOUR case, the details appear needed. So missing details, in itself, is no indication of the problem legally. It's the situation YOU are in.

My question is what you were thinking at the time that made you only care about custody and being willing to give up so much property.

What was your fear then? Why the trade offs then, that aren't NOW worth it?

The

The "fear then" was an ugly custody battle.

There was much predisposition for things to be ugly...

During X's parents split up, X's mom's family kinnapped her and her brother from school in St Thomas, flew them to the states and hid them in an FBI safe house (X's maternal grandfather was a former FBI agent and the chief of police of a city) so her US Customs agent father and his buddies couldn't kidnap them back.

X's mom remarried and while she was dying of brain cancer, X's stepfather got her to sign a new will excluding X and sibling from estate (I think they were legally disowned also) so he could get everything for himself. After her moms death he wouldn't even allow kids in the house to get personal items.

X walked away from assets when she left first husband (her choice) and regretted it.

X believed herself to be cheated by uncle (executor) when her grandfather died in 2006. Uncle actually opined, "we're not going to do everything exactly as father wanted." The family owned a bank a few generations back and an heirloom coin collection (old gold, silver) heavy enough to make the rear shocks of a car hit bottom when transported in the trunk mysteriously disappeared. I urged X to hire a lawyer but she refused saying her uncle and his adult children were the only family she had left (even though they have nothing to do with her and her and our kids see them once a year at Christmas). That uncle allowed X's grandfather (his father) to lie in an unmarked grave for years and it may still be.

Her grandmother died in 2005, her grandfather in 2006. We separated Jan, 2007. She threatened fight for full custody if I disagreed with property split she wanted (believed some things intrinsically hers). We had been through criminal trial (the pedophile) from 2002-2004, two years almost to the day. Bookkeeper at our business had robbed us blind in the middle of trial while we were distracted (another financial ripoff she had endured).

Food for thought (I think too much)....X screamed at me during separation, "You're not getting a dime of my inheritance!" (wtf? Was she confusing me with her uncle?) In my opinion X kidnapped our children from me when she took them during my custody time without my permission and against my direct instruction. (a learned behavior?) X says she was sexually abused in blended family after her mother remarried. (She says she will never allow DD to live under the same roof as fiance's son.

Doing the right thing at the time doesn't mean you won't pay for it (or regret it) later. What makes me sick is now facing the fight (custody) I thought I had avoided years ago, although I believe my position now is much stronger (But I'm not a lawyer). Maybe I was willing to pay that price to avoid a custody fight, not to just postpone it.

It is what it is.

Ain't it grand?

Sleeper, You have me thinking I need to update my custoday arrangement.

With that said, why not try to get the sitch w/ex worked out before getting married?

I dont know if anything can be "worked out". Something "clicked" a couple of weeks ago. I read up on narcissistic personality disorder.......bingo.

Out of the blue I got a little depressed thinking about my kids last night. I happened to drive by the park where I took my daughter to play during her first snow when she was a toddler. They have grown up in a broken family, exactly what I tried so hard to prevent.

X spoke with me last week. After the wedding there will be a lawsuit. She is adamant our children will never live with fiance's children. She has been fishing for something she can use as a reason. She really doesn't have anything as she states concerns about fiance's kids behavior and their grades (not as good as her children's?)but that won't stop her from making trouble, taking me to court and dragging us through the process.

I believe she has been working on our kids too. After her failed attempt to have the kids live with her all the time last fall (right after engagement) she has had almost a year to sway them. They are no longer excited about the wedding as they were in the beginning. DD has "informed" me she will soon be old enough to decide for herself with whom she will live and DS now says he doesn't want to share a room with two other boys. Both have their own bedroom at X's house and she has been lavishing DD with shopping trips. I have also noticed OMH now attends every sporting event kids are involved in and X, including those X cannot attend and slipped up and referred to OMH as DD's "father" while speaking to me.

It is a very emotionally upsetting topic for me and has strained my relationship with fiance.

Sleeper...

I can certainly understand how the topic would be very upsetting.

Your daughter is correct in that she will be able to chose whom she would like to live with (and even at the age she is at, they will take her desires into consideration) This also means that she can chose differently later on. Working with teenagers everyday has given me the unique perspective into understanding that they change their minds every 5 mins. Instead of trying to win her over, provide consistency. It is the only thing you can do.

I would imagine your son would not want to go from having his own space to sharing a room. It would be difficult at best. Not every family blends as well as the Brady Bunch.

Is it fair? No...but it is the way life is.

Your ex has been with her new husband for 7 years (according to your tag line) That is an awfully long time for your children to become attached to him (as they should) and treat him as a father-type figure (as they would)

They were young when she left and if he was there the whole time, a bond would naturally (and thankfully) develop. I think it is great that he comes to their sporting events. He is a part of their lives.

Why would this be straining your relationship with your fiance?

X's objections have been focused on fiance's children for some time. Fianc� becomes very upset (naturally) when X criticizes her children. Fianc� has raised her children alone, divorced when the youngest was an infant. One of her children has a physical birth defect and she is especially protective of him. As she says ,"I have always had to fight for _____ and protect him."

X's concerns are unfounded and IMHO internally fear driven by her own blended family experiences in her childhood. She didn't want me dating anyone with children (she didn't) and I believe would find fault with any prospective mate's children, IMHO. She insisted to meet with me after Sandyhook because she feared fiance's son would do the same as Adam Lanza.

My problem (and it's totally MY problem) is I can't help but feel I am unwillingly in a position of choosing fianc� or my kids. Sadly, blending our families seemed a breeze a year ago and the kids were excited. Now it's a non-starter. I blame X in large part for the change in our children. X responds the kids never wanted to blend with fiance's kids and they were pretending because they didn't want to hurt my feelings. (she is weaving quite an alternate reality in her head, anything to further her goal)

This is the problem: "X spoke with me last week. "

Where are your boundaries? Custody is a legal matter. Stop engaging with her on the topic.

Email or text pickup/drop off info, school info, health info.

All this other communication is unnecessary, unhealthy, and unproductive.

Fiance should be a bit torqued at your lack of boundaries!

Last week she was a DS's. soccer practice and approached me. This mornig it began with a phone call from her (I'm naturally going to answer when she has our kids). This AM she told me the kids wanted to stay with her. I tills her it wasn't their decision to make, she brought up court, etc. I made the convo as brief as possible. Told her I will pick them up at the regular time. I have limited contact to text messaging at times. This drama seems to be cyclic. I shall do so now.

I went to a counselor yesterday. Have another appt in two weeks will probably take kids.

Seems to me, you have as much right to be concerned about an unrelated adult male living in the house with your daughter at your Ex's house, as she has to be concerned about a teenage boy living in the house at YOUR house.

But she's obviously unstable and irrational - you probably have the best idea of how to handle her.

Sorry - exes su!ck

I have bitten my tongue so often it avoids my teeth.

She knows she can't stop anything. That's why she been working on the kids to get them to say they don't want to live with X or her kids. She seems to have turned DD who shows me new things X bought for her in shopping trips constantly. DD is conflicted and he's the one I worry about. He young enough that he doesn't want to hurt either parent and I think he says what he thinks individual parents want him to say. Not healthy. For instance on phone (with X listening?) he says he doesn't want to be around fiance's kids anymore but the first thing he asks when I get him is, "when are we going to fiance's? You promised we would." DD immediately says she doesn't want to go so she is more genuine.

I have to balance doing what is legal, doing what is right and doing what is fair without falling into the unhealthy manipulation and game playing X has resorted to.

Sleeper,
My DD is balking at the idea of my new marriage, too. Perhaps some of it is that it's a change. And some of it is that hope is truly lost for the parents getting back together. That's what my DD says.

Sometimes she gets along well with fiancee's kids and sometimes she doesn't. However, I asked her if she remembers when she met them and she does not; I now realize they have been part of her life since she was 4.

X is passive and hasn't really said or done anything but I notice that DD cries a lot about missing him. Just when I think he's getting better, he is a no-show for something that matters to her, and she is crushed.

You may need to let go with the situation some. If the kids are old enough to decide and you're the parent who isn't playing psychological games, you may find them gravitating to you when they are older.

Also, Sleeper, try not to let it hinder R w/fiance. I know it's easier said than done, but I almost wonder if that's what X wants.

Forward, your speculations are spot on. I also didn't realize how integral OMH was in my children's lives and learned yesterday DS doesn't remember when they met as well (he was 5). DD immediately chimed in X and OMH, "didn't cheat." I thought that was odd and believe either X has filled her head with that untruth or DD has thought things through herself and in some sort of denial. (she was 7 and is a female, more attuned to such matters than DS).

There are many dynamics and issues that have been triggered by our engagement beginning with X and now occurring with our children because the wedding is drawing nearer either/and/or aggrevated by X. There have also been misunderstandings I'm trying to clear up like the belief "we" will live in fiance's tiny house. Kids believed that to be case and I'm sure they told X and she whipped up why that would never work and therefore was a "no go". Im having to learn exactly what the issues TRULY are, separate fact from fiction and set things straight without damaging kids with too much truth in the process.

As far as X's motivations (do they even matter?): She never wanted me dating anyone with kids, even tried to fix me up with childless women. She has control issues and has always been jealous of time our kids spent around fianc�. Counselor I saw last week who has known X and I for years (her longer) says X still loves me (example: X offered to fix me a dinner she cooked "to go" when I picked up kids the other day). I declined. As I told counselor I don't need to try to figure out X's situation BUT it's as if she still wants me there in "limbo" for her, she's in mlc and knows it on some level, she has fears of blended family issues generated by her own childhood experiences OR she is just the world champion cake eater she has been since we split up.

I was just struck by the irony of her very emotional recent concern that DS feels he is "losing me as a father" to X's children WHILE telling me my own kids don't want to live with me and fiance's kids with the veiled, ever present threat she will take me to court for the purpose of taking them from me. (twist on that)

Yep, could be trying to "hinder" the relationship with fianc�. And would probably like nothing more than to achieve just that while maintaining her own status quo.

"It's a fine madness."

Short version: X texted me yesterday at work, "The children want to live with me, can we meet after work and talk?" I couldnt because of appointment, offered for her to join me at counselor appointment today that i had already scheduled. Yesterday they would normally come to me to begin my week (shared joint custody, alternating weeks). I responded, "No." She picked up kids from school before I could get there. Energetic phone convo followed. She has them now.
I called police and they made report. Same story, vagueness in custody agreement which lacks specific day of week, time and location for swap. I will call lawyer today and get ball rolling.
I'm really worried how to approach kids. DD totally wants to live with her now, I told her that's not her decision to make but X keeps telling her she gets to decide. DS is not so sure. He says he has issues (things X has whipped up) and will say he wants to live with her in her presence but opines missing me and wanting to spend time just the two of us.
I have taken the high road in all this and feel I am losing.
Conclusion: possibility of mediated meeting at therapy today. Possibility of X taking kids again.

get the ball rolling with your lawyer for sure...

at the very least, get all vagueness out of your custody agreement

sending positive thoughts your way

you can also call for an emergency hearing with a judge to determine temporary custody until your hearing...
the danger in this is that it could go either way...

Two police reports in three days.....

No "mediated" solution from meeting. X presented her reasons for violating custody order and taking kids. All mountains out of molehills combined with manifestations of her own irrational fears. One justification for taking kuds was her absolute sure conclusion that Fiance's oldest done would one day become a mass murderer like Adam Lanza in Newtown Conn. I could not stop my eyebrow from rising and looking to counselor to see if he heard what I heard her say. It's looney tunes. Fiance's son has no record of violence or violent acts.

I told X not to take kids from counseling office as it was my "alternate week" per custody order and had a copy with me (I checked both children out of school and that is documentation they were in my custody). She responded she would take the children. When I asked if she would violate a judges court order she replied, Yes, I will violate a court order to protect my children." She later violated court order when she left with the children whom I had brought to the premises and were in the waiting room. The counselor is a witness to her statement of contempt of court. I did not put the children through a verbal or physical confrontation in the parking lot. I told them I wanted them to stay with me. DS asked, "what did mom say?" They got in her car and left.

X has told DD she can decide who she lives with, DS does what he thinks X wants him to do. Present custody order is criminally uninforceable and "civil matter" as X states and flaunts.

then bring her back to civil and family court

or

you could refuse her right to see them based on her looney tune statements--delusions etc

It will come to that. My concern now is mitigating the emotional distress my son is experiencing due to her actions while dealing with the brain washing she has done to both of them.

Sleeper,

Time for family counseling with your kids and legal action. Her manipulation of your kids is damaging them. Step up.

Lawyer contacted (he answered the phone the second time I called)

Appointment tomorrow.

I get the impression returning to what was the status quo with DS is a slam dunk. Case will be heard by the same judge that wrote original custody orders. (the custody orders she said she would violate (and did) in front of a witness). Lawyer said he could call the counselor to testify because she said it in front of me too.

DD is a different story. Because of her age, her stated desire to live with her mother will have a bearing.

I have counseling appt for kids scheduled for next week.

So sorry for all you are going through. Just [censored]! Seems your ex thinks she is above the law. She may be in for a rude awakening. You handled things as well as anyone could.

Ex is right that your daughter may be able to choose. I'm sure she has had her head filled with all kinds of garbage by her Mom so it's good she will be seeing the counselor.

Hang in there!

Barb

And remember - even IF your daughter chooses to live with X FOR NOW, she may well change her mind in a year or two (or a month or two).

I awoke this AM with question of whether to go for full custody or enforcement of what was the status quo (joint shared custody). Her violation of the court order and actions that have visibly upset the children (one of DD's teachers contacted me concerned something was upsetting DD Tuesday AM after X took them Monday after school and then DS was in tears Wednesday evening).

I meet with the L in two hours and will seek his "counsel".

Sleeper,

FWIW, this sounds vengeful. Examine your motives carefully. Your kids need both parents. This isn't about you and XW, it is about them.

Not vengeful, OT. X has manipulated and is now hurting my children. I have seen the tears. I have heard the crying on the phone. I have been asked, what is wrong with DD? by one of her teachers when she first arrived at school from X's house this week. She is hurting my kids and this must stop. The L even said it constitutes an "emergency situation" in his opinion. Please tell me how you conclude it sounds vengeful.

The lawyer is going to file a motion requesting action for X to comply with the court's standing order and cite X for being in contempt of court. He will request immediate action (est. 1-2 weeks).

He expects X to file for full custody in response, says she has no grounds but depending on her lawyer she may advise not to or go through the motions and drag the children through the process.

The last time I hired a lawyer X physically assaulted me in front of the children when she found out.

And so it begins

She did it again. When she took the kids this week she said (in front of DS and myself) they would be with me this weekend. It's this weekend now and she says "the kids don't want to come to you." that may be the case with DD but DS spent last night with me and I don't believe her. Not that it matters anyway cause I learned from L judge would listen to kids but their preference has no bearing.

I could go over attempt to get them and file another police report (got 3 now) but I think it may be redundant and only cause kids more stress. Downside is I texted kids I would pick them up and font want to not follow through on my word with them or let them think I'm giving up.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I don't really have any useful advice for you, but I wanted to commend you on your calm, thoughtful responses to your x. Speaking as the children of warring divorced parents, I can tell you that your kids GREATLY appreciate your efforts to spare them from the stresses that an unreasonable parent causes them. Whatever happens, I hope you are able to hold on to your equanimity in the face of your X's abuse. You seem lime one heck of a good dad and I salute you.

Thank you both.

Papa, you brought a tear to my eye. Now that I have calmed myself and thought I have decided Not to go attempt to get them. There would be a scene and issues of some sort. I have enough evidence already of her violations. It would serve no effective purpose and cause kids more pain.

Gabby, your response is the same as my fiance's on the phone moments ago. I think that may be a "momma thing" (I say that with the utmost respect and hope no offense). DD texted hearing her mother "defend her" on phone (Freudian guilty conscious slip?). I responded she had done nothing wrong and , "I love you". I also texted DS the fact his mother did not want me to take him from her house and I had hoped we could have gone fishing again. I took him fishing yesterday and we watched a guy movie last night during our short time together.

Thank you again. It helps. Focusing on the kids and their well being will guide me through this.

gineen...

unfortunately, you cannot just "go and get them"

it [censored]

but it is true

Sorry Sleeper...it [censored] all around but you are doing a magnificent job of looking out for the well being of your children...what being a parent is really all about

Because we have "joint shared custody" either one of us could go "pick up our kids" BUT that's why there is a custody schedule (week on/week off) to prevent the children from being yanked back and forth like a yoyo. The problem is ONE of the parents now refuses to comply with the schedule in addition to estranging the children from me by telling them (and coercing DS IMHO) that they do not have to go their father's if they don't want to.

X slipped up in a text since my last post and texted one reason she wanted DS to stay with her tonight was because she wants to take him to church in the AM. Her "WANT" is the actual reason for this entire situation. Her actions have nothing to do with what is best for the children.

Here's a kick in the stomach. I texted DS earlier and learned he's spending the night with a friend. That's right, she is keeping him from me on what is legally my time and sending him on a sleepover with a friend. DD is babysitting. Makes sense to me because I believe X and OMH are at a concert because she mentioned it the other night.

I guess I could go to sleepover house and get my son but I'd have to bring the police as I don't know the hosts and they don't know me. Possibility for high drama and I'd come off looking as the crazy one (DS embarrassed, host parents and host child traumatized etc.). I'm literally sick to my stomach but feel I'm doing the right thing.

Sleeper:
Document. Keep track of everything. The whole thing is a nightmare but try to keep the drama out of it. I'm guessing your son enjoyed the sleepover & your daughter wanted the babysitting $. Best not to disrupt that for their sakes.

Is your ex wrong? Absolutely. But best to deal with the lawyer & judge - not to make yourself the bad guy in front of the kids.

Barb

I realized this AM you can take a pic of your text messages if you are using an IPhone. Lawyer said to to your account online (AT&T) and print out your call record to verify whom the texting was between (documents phone numbers, not names of nicknames in contacts on phone).

yup...we google doc all of Cori's ex's messages so they automatically get saved and backed up in case his phone gets wiped etc.

Wow - who knew? I'd better figure out how to do this. I have some whacko messages from my Ex too.

Barb

Just talked to DS. He's still at the friend's house he went to on a sleepover last night. X has not picked him up and DID NOT take him to church this AM (the reason she "wanted" to keep him.

Documenting.

I'm two days into the third week without my kids. I usually have them every other week. Previously it was my normal pattern to be a little down a day or so into the week they were with X (the silence) but this is worse.

Keep documenting everything so you can present it to the L. She certainly is one messed up cookie!

I'm seeing them but they're not sleeping at my place anymore. Weirdness: X included a spot for me when she made reservations (info came to her house) at DD's invitation to "students of the year dinner" this Thursday for students in our school district.

L said 4-6 weeks wait for hearing.

Just found out L has not taken any action or done anything yet. Could be misunderstanding cause I remember telling him to, could be he was too busy preparing for other case that was supposed to go to trial this week (it's been postponed). Am taking Friday off to get ball rolling. I thought it already was.

Therapy appointment tomorrow (even my son says, "they dont do anything").

I'm going anyway. Fianc� may join me.

Counselor cancelled appointment (sick). I went to L's office instead, Letter will be sent out today. I might be able to get police to take action if she keeps kids Monday night as orders say "alternating weeks and Mon will mark three weeks she's had them (violation now obvious as she has denied alternation).. L just sees violation as violation with no degree of severity

I saw my kids at school district student of year banquet last night (DD student if year at her school). I have DD a dozen roses in honor of her accomplishment. X texted, "you touched her heart." Gave son a pack of game cards. He seemed concerned he shouldn't have them at dinner so I introduced him to the chest pocket on inside of his sport coat. I think he was pleased.

I AM SICK TO MY STOMACH.

Received email from L. They sent the letter but it's INCORRECT ! Says X should comply with court order and is in violation for denying me "visitation" with my children. I dont have "visitation" I have joint custody and she is denying me my alternating weeks of custody of the children. Two trips to the L's office and a letter fee for that screw up. X wi only be empowered as she is treating me as of she has full custody and gets to decide when I can have visitation already.

I hate attorneys as I hate hell, all Montagues and iced tea.

I hope you got right back in touch with them to have them fix their error at no charge. What a mess! Stay strong, I a sure this will work out for you.

kat

it is my understanding that even with custody...when they are denying you your week...it is termed as visitation

this is only from our own dealings with Cori's ex violating custody orders etc

The custody orders say, "shared joint custody" with each parent to have "physical custody on alternating weeks."

The word "Visitation" doesn't appear in the document.

I texted my kids today to stay in touch, asked them if they had been to see their grandmother (my mom). Kids said "no". X then texted me (they were together), said I could have them and go to dinner if wanted. I responded I would not interrupt her time with them but would take then next week when it was my time.

Much irrational texting from X ensued. My few responses were to the fact she had no authority to set "visitation" for me and she was violating a court order (ratio of texting was probably 10/01 with her doing the most).

This city with a population of 250,000 is so small X with DD in her vehicle pulled up beside me at a traffic light on my way home tonight. DD recognized my vehicle and drew X's attention to the fact. X pulled up and glared at me through her side window.

Tomorrow would begin my week to have the kids in a normal situation.

I'm considering calling child protective services myself.

Any suggestions?

I suggest talking to your lawyer before doing ANYTHING.

That's all I've got other than that I'm sorry this is happening to you.

I feel even sorrier for your kids.

Barb

you can call child protective services although they will be unable to do anything unless she is harming the children (and unfortuantely, this does NOT count as harming them)

The only way to change the situation is to go back to court and have specific dates put on your custody agreement

And again...

the only way to enforce that is through civil court...not criminal court

it [censored] all the way around but it is what it is

L's secretary responded to my concerns of use of "visitation" rather the "physical custody."

"I don't think the wording will make that much difference but I'll bring it to Mr Lawyer's attention."

I expected as much.

Can you just pick the kids up from school tomorrow - maybe a few minutes early, so as to avoid a scene?

If I take off from work I could pick them up. I did that two weeks ago when I had scheduled C session. When X arrived she told them to get in her car and they did.

I'm thinking the only way to stop X from taking them would be a restraining order to keep her off my property. They both have cell phones (on her plan) and if she texts them she's coming to get them they will follow her instructions. DS has even asked "did mom say it was OK"?

I really don't know what to do except wait for a court date.

That's why I suggest picking them up EARLY from school, (maybe 45 mins early) to avoid confrontation with ex.

The "confrontation" will come shortly after when she shows up to take them ( they have phones and court ordef forbids "free communication" between parents and children). I play by hhe rules. She will bark and they will jump.

I am changing lawyers as I am dissatisfied with the mistake in the letter and lack of aggressive action by my present one.

Is it really a mistake? That may be the legal term for this situation even though you have joint custody, it may still be called visitation in this context - don't jump to conclusions.

If you pick up the kids and take them with you, your fear is that the kids will call mom to pick them up? Do you really believe the kids don't want to be with you? I would pick them up, explain the terms of custody in the divorce papers, explain that their mom doesn't have the right to unilaterally decide for all of you, and have some honest discussion with them about their fears/concerns/desires. And tell them it's your turn. Simple.

where is the like button

I think it was a mistake. L's secretary described it as a "choice of wording." Probably won't matter in the long run.

DD does not want to live with me at all now. DS was torn but I believe he has gone over now. Path of least resistance with X, private room and perks there he won't have with me

The law is on my side but the desires of the children and emotion is on X's now. X having them the past three weeks has only made things worse. It's going to be me against the three of them in court I fear.

New L contacted. Lives in my county (same as court order). I have appointment at 10:00 AM. He says he will immediately file against X for "contemt of court" for violating custody orders.

This is the right next step to take. Leave the kids at school today and let ex take them as she will. Don't go early or you are playing her game and stooping to her level. Let L advise first

Barb

I just talked to DD. I'm the "bad guy" because I didn't play X 's game and "visit" with her and her brother on Sunday during the time X would allow.

Danged if I do, danged if I don't.

The visiting thing, that's not in your custody order is it, I thought you had joint custody? Is your X making you the bad guy, telling your kids that you don't want to see them or something? My kids tend to ask if things are ok with their dad; my D13 has called him the "decider", but they also are into being fair and equal time and 50/50 and value that concept. You don't need to play X's games; let your L handle that; but I would try to communicate some of what's going on with your kids.

I did "try" to communicate some of what's going on to the kids last night via texting. DS did not respond at all. DS was not happy with the truth of the matter and accused me of attempting to influence her. She's a kid and previously believed the judge will decide as she wants. I told her that wasn't the case, so I'm the "bad guy" once again trying to "scare her."

The word "visitation" does not appear in the legal document. I'm it sure if X has tried to make me the bad guy in kids eyes, although she searches for reasons they should not live with me (i.e. house not clean enough). X does try to demonized fianc� and today met with fiance's supervisor at her place of employment (we're both teachers and DD attends the school where we teach).

X did not inform me of HER conference with the principal this PM concerning our DD, ANOTHER violation of custody orders which require parents to communicate "conferences" ,among other things, to one another.

you should certainly file contempt charges (i think people mentioned that before)

be prepared for the contempt charges to make her more angry and try to with-hold the children even more

contempt charges of this nature are civil and not criminal

I have appt with new L at 10:00 this AM It's 2:00 AM now and I can't sleep. Today is the third day I've taken off from work this month (was supposed to be evaluated this week) cause of this mess. New L advised filing contempt charges and will. Previous L's secretary called me late yesterday afternoon that X's L had contacted my L to "work some things out", will transfer info to new L. Not sure what that means other than X got letter from my L requesting compliance with court order and was probably reason for angry texting last night, conference with fiance's supervisor yesterday and contact from her L.

I got a feeling this is going to get really bad before its over. The emotional impact of changes in DD's attitude along with the situation being virtually the ONLY topic of conversation between us is taking a toll on my and fiance's relationship. We're supposed to be planning for a wedding six weeks from now. Not having my kids for three weeks along with the estrangement X has been/is fostering is taking a toll on me. In the AM I will literally empty my bank account to pay retainer fee. My roof is leaking/needs replacing and I have appt with roofer tomorrow afternoon. Somehow I've got to find time to replace my water heater, finish my taxes and talk to a bankruptcy attorney.

"Now is the summer of our discontent...."

Sleeper,

Can you talk with a family counselor about how to best handle the texting convos with the kids?

With respect to texting convos with XW, just stop them.

I have another appt with C on Thursday. Made several in anticipation of what is now happening and will discuss children with him. I did text DD a few facts about what is about to occur legally the other night. Someone has fed her baloney that she gets to decide who she lives with and I feel she needed to know the truth. I was gentle. X texted the next AM saying I should be ashamed. I'm not sure what X is telling her. I may see DS this afternoon and must decide what to say to him. X and I had agreed to bring children to appt last week that got cancelled. She is aware of this one and though she opines wanting to co to counseling to "work this out" (read: get my way) I doubt she will bring kids and attend now that L's are involved.

After an evening of texting spew shich resumed in the morning, the last text between us was from X, that she had ened kids in summer keyboarding class, along with pics of the brochure (huh?). Following that seemingly cooperative gesture she violated the custody orders again by having a parent conference with DD's principal without informing me (for nefarious reasons I believe).

Nope. I don't text X anymore. I reminded her of this weeks C appointment 9 days ago and am tempted to do so again but probably won't. If she doesn't show it will be my fault for not reminding her I'm sure.

Advice from lawyer #2 (yesterday morning)....

1.Take no immediate action/wait to see what X files (expected as a L contacted my 1st lawyer on behalf of X)

I have since learned the L that made the contact is a personal friend of X's H and I believe was fishing for info (doesn't practice family law). I called clerk of court and no filing as of yet.

2. Decide what I really want (full custody, etc).

I guess just wanting my kids back isn't enough of a want.

3. Decide if marrying my fianc� is worth possibly losing my kids.

He said I have upset the "status quo" by proposing. I am the one who is changing my children's world. He believes any court action will be a coin toss (50% chance of prevailing).

In the mean time X has my kids and her H has taken on Rome of bodyguard. He has much time on his hands and takes them to events/lessons/activities and stays with them where he used to drop them off and return to pick them up.

C today.

My decision:

I'm going to seek full physical custody of my son and allow DD to live with X. I want it scheduled so that X and I have both our children every other weekend.

Reasoning:

L told me DD CAN decide where she lives in approximately two years (when 16-17yrs of age). Most issues/objections have been connected to DD. I have learned DD is being creative with the truth.

My son asked me last August, "Dad, what would you do if you came to pick me up and mom had a gun and wouldn't let me go with you?" I told him I wouldn't let anyone get hurt. I'd leave and return with the police (the law) and get him. In effect, I feel like that's what I'm about to do.

Did you discuss with FC?

About my decision? Not yet, haven't had a chance.

Today's C session was quite animated , almost became violent, there was physical contact between X and OMH (he pulled her off of one couch and moved her to another because she was inches from fiance's face calling her "bitch" repeatedly and probably thought X was about to hit her). That was in the waiting room while C was talking to DS and DD. A therapist came into the room to intervene and fianc� and I were asked to move to another area which we gladly did. The therapist warned if what she had seen ever happened again she would call the police.

Slight words began in C's office during introductions in front of kids. OMH butted in and began to berate me as to my failure in marriage to X.

OMH: "You dropped the ball in your marriage, Sleeper."
Sleeper: "And you picked it up before the marriage and started running touchdowns."
OMH: "That's not true."
Sleeper: "I've got the pictures in my car to prove it."
OMH: "You're an idiot."

Then the adults moved to the waiting room where all was fairly calm until fianc� arrived and X came unglued.

Next session is adults only in 1.5 weeks. C is still trying to avoid court battle, says it will be good for no one. I just remembered he once mentioned a desire to write a book on e everything that had happened to X, myself and our children. Maybe he's just gathering more material.

"It's a fine madness", Sleeper.... AND It's real. Me and my kids have been living this [censored] for years.

It might be good to have a private meeting with a FC to discuss the kid's interests in the coming custody hearing. If the FC can't do it, then perhaps a different FC.

To me, it seems bad for the kids to arrange different custody schedules for them. I imagine that I would have felt rejected and unloved and worthless in my father's eyes if he went for full custody of a sibling but not me. That is the last thing a young woman needs to be feeling. It will put her at great risk of physical, sexual, and emotional abuse.

I have to agree with oldtimer nothing good will come from separating them, they will grow up as cousins instead of sister and brother.

As your ex seem so hell bent on taking your kids away from you I would not be surprised if she secretly pushing her husband to get a job transfer to another state so they can move.

Its just evil what she is doing to your kids and damaging heard many stories from kids where the outcome is not good for the parents like your wife when the kids are older and looking back.....but there are some parents like you that lost contact with the kids because the ex poisoned the well.

Now is the time for them to set up healthy boundaries with the help from with a therapist and not just take the easy way (avoiding the wrath of their mother) and prevent FOO issues with future relationships.

Damaging to kids who experience such? X's mother had retired FBI agent Freud DS of X's maternal grandfather physically kidnap X and her brother from their school in St Thomas and hide X and her brother in what X calls a "safe house" in the US until legal action could be completed and things settled down. I just had a chill as I realized X is using the same L her mother did.

I honestly don't have much hope for C to facilitate a resolution. OMH is fairly level headed but he is arrogant and described as "never wrong".

What about the fact that 5 children who have had each other in their lives for 4 years (1/2 the life of the youngest) are at this moment being forced to not see one another?

DS and DD both "avoid the wrath" of their mother and I have seen DS tear up at the mere raising of her voice.

At least fianc� now understands why the children are saying they want to live with their mother as she opines they don't stand a chance against her venomous spew. She said she's never seen anything like it.

I'm going to talk to the C (his clinic specializes in family counseling and is divided into an area for children and an area for adults). It was his wife, a therapist who works with children who threatened th call the police at X screaming obscenities and OMH physically moving X and I wish she had.

I had "date" (what it felt like) with my own children last night. X suggested I take them out and DD dosen't understand why I don't see them every chance possible on X's terms. I will not do that again. It is playing X's game empowering her, putting her in a position to tell kids I'm OK with her arrangement and possibly establishing a record of me already participating in the custody modification she (X) is seeking.

I gently tried to talk to the kids but they both shut down immediately and said, "Mom said you wouldn't bring that up." I never told X I wouldn't bring anything up but I backed off because I don't want the kids hurt any more than they already are.

So what is worse, Oldtimer? Seeking a compromise physical custody arrangement that abates some of X's concerns or putting the kids through a full blown custody fight?

I feel a need to act quickly as this is the fourth week of this mess and a hearing won't be held for 4-6 weeks if I filed today, as more estrangement and distancing occurs daily y X and the situation creeps toward a new "normal".

Sleeper have you checked out any of the father's rights groups? Maybe they can help you.

what makes you think that your x will settle for you getting full custody of your son and she gets full custody of your daughter?

It seems as though you are in for a battle regardless

I don't believe X will accept the arrangement I mentioned.

So, I had my "date" with DS and DD on what by court order was my time with them Friday night. A change in DS's sports activities rested an opportunity for me to invite him to go fishing yesterday. He turned and asked X, "can I?", to which she responded, "yes" (I didn't ask her, he did). We went, had a great time, caught a few and even raced against an approaching thunderstorm to paddle our canoe off the lake.

DS wanted to cook the fish we caught for supper. I told him I wanted him to spend the night with me as it was late. He said I would need to ask X. At this point I couldn't help but ask, "Why, does OMH ask her permission before he does anything?" DS chuckled and responded, "no." DSthen called X on his phone and told her he wanted to stay with me to eat the fish we caught and watch a movie. She gave him "permission" and asked to speak to me saying, "I can't compete with a fish fry and a blu ray" and informing me she was shopping with DD for items for her school trip she left on this morning.

This situation isn't good in many ways. X has empowered herself to call the shots in the eyes of the kids and the kids are being taught they have great impact in what should be adult and court decisions (r.e. DD's recent claim she gets to "decide" where she lives).

It's also taking a major toll on the relationship between myself and fianc�. Following the incident at C's office, fianc� told a me, "My children come first (as her concern)." Ironically X told me the same thing this past week in reference to DS and DD. I understand this to a large degree as fianc� is the only person her three children have looking out for them (their father has chosen to not be involved in their lives). She has said at times she will not allow her children to be brought into court and put through the ordeal that could occur. Fiance's comment has caused me to consider where I rank my children in importance. Last night fiance texted we would be "Mr and Mrs" in just three weeks in keepinf with recent comments that what X has done will not deter her from living her life. I did not respond.

I now have much more to decide.

I will start a new thread.

Correction: it's SIX weeks til the wedding.

Funny no matter how much other situations change the infamous "edit" button is perpetually consistent.