Dating Issues - Seeking ladies (and men's) advice

Well, I just came over from the New Comers section. I started officially dating after I got my divorce (my ex-wife and I had been separated for 2.5 years, so this was not a rebound or anything), but have since run into heart-breaking situation.

My ex-gf and I met 4 months ago through church. To say we hit it off right away would be an understatement. We could talk for 4-5 hours everyday without a dull moment, we understood each other, our jokes, our religious philosophies, she and I had all the visual cues that we were attracted to each other, friends commented on how our faces light up when we see each other, etc.

We wanted to do it the right away and be right with God, so we waited till I was officially divorced at the end of October before we started dating. In the meantime, we remained "friends with potential" as we jokingly referred to each other.

So we started dating and it was amazing; we had loads of fun and again, there never was a dull moment. We enjoyed each other's company and respected each other greatly. A week later, however, just as I was sensing that she was keeping me at arm's length and the cold shoulder, she broke up with me, citing that if we got married, she did not want to deal with the stresses of my ex-wife being in the picture. I practiced some DB/DRing and made very minimal contact with her. A week later, we reconciled after we talked about her concern a little more. Since the beginning of our relationship, I reassured her I will try my darnest to protect her and buffer her from the stresses of living a life with an ex. It may not always be the case, but I told her I understood the fear and great dedication needed to date a guy with an ex-wife.

The following week, we celebrated Thanksgiving dinner with my family. A few days after that, I started sensing the same distance from her again. Then she wanted to meet upon Saturday to talk. When we met up, she said that she was still struggling with this and wanted to stay her choice to never date a guy with baggage (apparently she came to this decision after she dated a divorced man 3 years ago). Did that prior decision stop her from her attraction to me, to flirt with me, to want to date me? No! And so it really blew me mind and saddened me intensely that she went with her head rather than her heart. What's going here?

That evening after the break up, I made a conscious decision to maintain contact with her, even though a few hours earlier I had said to her that I would be lying to myself, her and God by being her friend; my feelings for her are deeper than that.

So that night I texted her the following:

"Hey, hope you're doing okay. I just want you to know how much I've enjoyed our relationship, and how much I've learned and that I still love you to bits. Even though we're not together, I'll always be available to race you around a digital racetrack (we enjoyed hitting the arcades), discuss mundane nerd factoids, Trekkie trivia (we're not fans, but loved joking about Trek fans. No offense), the awesomeness of God, and possibly Schnooki and JWOWW (we made fun of them to no end; and Schnooki also became my ex-gf's nickname). Hope you have a good night, S."

She responded 8 minutes later, "Thank you Alamo

I hope you have a good night too"

I texted my ex-gf another time the next day (Monday) which became a short conversation about her new boss at school and work, with an occasional smiley face by her. She didn't not ask about me or anything, though. In one of her last messages that day, she said, "Ya, I still have my job so thats a good start for me :)" And I decided to chance it and threw out a compliment (and I meant every word of it), "Indeed! I'm happy He keeps us blessed with work. And it would be an absolute crime if your school, for some insane reason, decided not to keep one of its best, most hardworking and dedicated teachers I know."

She responded "Thank you, that is kind of you to say"

So the million dollar question is: is it "safe" to actively (but cautiously) pursue her? Besides the very occasional texts, I'm hoping to drop by her workplace and leave some origami cats (she's a cat person) on her car with a funny note (because we love to joke). I'm not sure if she'll see that as stalking or as something subtlely romantic. And then there's Xmas and Valentine's....

Anyway, how can she completely turn off her feelings just like that, or is it? How did, as a woman, her head won over her heart? Aside from this, I truly believe we could've made an amazing couple. For those familiar with my situation, meeting S was truly God-sent. That's why I made the choice to keep wooing her.

Do you remember any of the lessons learned from DB? Give her space and GAL.

"How did, as a woman, her head won over her heart? "

That's how it's supposed to be. That's what we often hoped our WAS would do in terms of thinking rationally. Your XGF is smart enough to know what she wants or doesn't want from prior experience.

Your hope is that you left enough of a lasting impression that she would want to come back because it's not like you can get rid of your "baggage".

Right now she's thinking of all that so give her space.

Alamo,

The reasons she is telling she does not want to see you .....are not important in the big picture here.

She has broken it off with you...twice in a month. She is trying to be nice.

You are pursuing her and my opinion is....if I broke it off with a guy for whatever reason..and he came to my work to leave origami cats on my car....it would kinda freak me out.

You need to back off. Plus...you were only dating a month and your saying "I love you" To much, to fast, to soon.

Stop pursing her...her follow up text in your own words "she did not ask about me or anything"

I know it is difficult but you must step back.

Hey Mr. Bond, nice to see you again! And thanks Sandycay for dropping in too!

I wholeheartedly agree with you guys about backing off. But (and you knew there's a but) what's confounding to me about my ex-gf is when she broke up with me the first time, she also initiated the reconciliation. She came to ME to ask if we could reconnect, etc.

Is she undecided? Fickle? Or has some commitment phobia?

I also need to clarify that the origami cats is just an idea. I was debating on giving a home made gift to her personally/impersonally (somewhere she'll see it or via mail). A gift that, not at face value at least, doesn't point to our relationship per se, but more towards something she likes and enjoys.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

Your XGF is smart enough to know what she wants or doesn't want from prior experience.

This is another thing that boggles me, if she knew what she wanted due to prior experience, why did she choose to see/date/flirt with me in the first place? Again, I go back to my question, is she undecided?

"why did she choose to see/date/flirt with me in the first place?"

Because as we all know, fantasy and reality are two different things. She was interested (as all people are in the beginning), then the longer you were together, there were more "real life" situations that come up and the veil of fantasy slowly starts to disappear. That's when she decided to really think if this is what she wanted long-term.

And another thing that boggles me to no end, is the fact there wasn't anything wrong with us. The only obstacle for my ex-gf was my ex-wife. Our chemistry/attraction was (I'm very certain) mutual and definitely not fake.

I have to also add that (for those who doubt) by practicing DB/DRing during the first break up, she came back on her own volition.

This time, for some reason, I feel less resolute in maintaining no contact. I guess it's because (a) there was nothing wrong with us, (b) we separated on rather good terms (no anger, no resentment, no critisms).

Sandycay, I forgot to answer your point about saying "I love you". Well, S always knew how I felt about her (because the new Alamo is more emotionally available and expressive!), though I never said love at any time. She knew that I was falling for her and that's it.

I decided to say "I love you to bits" is after some introspection after the break up, I thought that I needed to at least be honest with her and myself.

Oh and possibly another important note is that during the break up conversation, she couldn't stop blushing every time I recounted a good memory or gave her a compliment.

When asked if she had an issue with me, she couldn't answer. When asked if she and I both experienced the feelings we did, she couldn't look me in the eye, and kept saying "I'm sorry, Alamo."

To top it off, she decided not to stay at our church anymore.

Let it go. Remember to let go of things that you can't control.

Run! Run away quickly!

I know, I know - she seemed perfect, it all seemed like just what you were looking for - yada yada yada.

But seriously - if it was all that great, and she's running already? Either:

A) It wasn't really all that great for her,she's just a good faker, or
B) She's got intimacy issues and runs when it gets close, or
C) She's too much of a weenie to tell you the truth which is that her old boyfriend came back or some such

Let it go. The fantasy was nice but there's something very wrong here with the reality. Don't waste any more of your time.

Hi Alamo,
It's good to hear from you - although I wish about better news.

I hate to say it - but I kinda agree with kml. I know that you have feelings for this woman but you can't make people get over their own fears.

And you have only known her for 4 months? Why are you so distraught? Why are you willing to DB her like you did your xw?

Don't tell me you love her... I want you to dig deeper for these answers.. because I think there is some soul searching for you to do.

I see a pattern here between your xw and your xgf... do you?

She is not your xw so you do not have to PROVE to her that you are a different man or that you love her....

.... yet here you are.. trying to prove it to her exactly it

Why? Tell me why this relationship is THAT important to you. What are you afraid of?

Originally Posted By: MrBond

Let it go. Remember to let go of things that you can't control.

True, though I can control how I want my life to be. And sometimes (just sometimes), if we really want something, we need to take chances and take things into our own hands.

I hate to say it, but in my experience I was a better dater than a "marrier" (so far!), but maybe the chance to take is to back away and look around at other people to spend time with. Practice conversational skills, practice finding things to do that you are interested in. I hope that someday I am not in your situation, but like everyone here, I guess it is always a possibility. I can't imagine how hard it must be "being back out there." To be ready to be with someone, though, you have to also be ready to be alone.

Hi,

Just a bit of input here.

This was not a relationship. This was a little fling. Don't give it more importance than that.

You say it was not a rebound but guess again - it WAS a rebound for you. Your first Post D dating experience. And you really really really wanted it to work. But it didn't. For whatever reason. My thought is that you came on WAY too strong, WAY too fast.

But the good news is - you know you can have those loving feelings again (and I'm sure that's what it was not real love so soon). You will have it again - just don't give out your love so easily or so soon. It was not meant to be because it takes 2 people to want it and when one wants out - that's it - that's the end.

You can learn a lot from this experience. You will find someone else and I will bet you will be a bit more cautious. But that's good. Maybe she didn't want you because she knew she had you. People tend to want the things they have to work a bit harder for.

Now back off and stop messaging her. When one person says it's over and the other shows up at their work with origami cats - it is obsessive and could be considered stalking. Don't let that happen.

You may never know WHY. But it really doesn't change things to find out.
Barb

Hey Gineen,

We both said almost the same thing at the same time. But I said Really 3 times and you only said it twice. I win!

LOL - just being silly.

Sorry, Alamo - but you can see we all agree here

Barb

Which you already did and she still wants space. You're trying to tell her that she doesn't know what she wants. She made up her mind to leave and she can make up her mind to come back. No amount of pushing is going to get her to come back to you.

Yeah Alamo - and besides, don't you think you DESERVE a woman who would move heaven and earth to be with you?

She's not the right one for you - I know, it hurts to give up those delicious lovey dovey feelings, but this was an illusion. I wouldn't trust her now even if she DID come back.

Originally Posted By: SunFunOne

Hi,

Just a bit of input here.

This was not a relationship. This was a little fling. Don't give it more importance than that.

You say it was not a rebound but guess again - it WAS a rebound for you. Your first Post D dating experience. And you really really really wanted it to work. But it didn't. For whatever reason. My thought is that you came on WAY too strong, WAY too fast.

But the good news is - you know you can have those loving feelings again (and I'm sure that's what it was not real love so soon). You will have it again - just don't give out your love so easily or so soon. It was not meant to be because it takes 2 people to want it and when one wants out - that's it - that's the end.

You can learn a lot from this experience. You will find someone else and I will bet you will be a bit more cautious. But that's good. Maybe she didn't want you because she knew she had you. People tend to want the things they have to work a bit harder for.

Now back off and stop messaging her. When one person says it's over and the other shows up at their work with origami cats - it is obsessive and could be considered stalking. Don't let that happen.

You may never know WHY. But it really doesn't change things to find out.
Barb

I need to clarify that what I wrote about my feelings were/are in response to HER advances. Yes, we had instant chemistry, but I went into it cautious, especially what happened with my separation, child custody and all. From the beginning, I made it clear to her of:

A. My past
B. My priority is my son first. If we became more serious, she'd become more of a priority
C. Keeping my son out of the picture as best as possible and only introducing her to him as our church friend
D. To keep communication open
E. To keep God central to our relationship

It was my ex-gf who coined the term friend with potential, who told her family first about us (before I did), whose family asked about me frequently, who hoped I could meet her siblings and parents. After the first couple of weeks after we met, it was close friends who had to truly convince me that she really did like me. So no, I wasn't the crazy bloodhound, but I'd admit that when I did, we both took off. I would know the difference (I hope) because my ex-wife and I basically fell in love at first sight. So with S, I felt we responded to each other's attraction at a somewhat less frantic pace. Don't forget that we had to wait 3 months before we started dating, so we patiently waited and I had time to evaluate and gauge where we were. She told me she did too.

But, I think at some point after we started dating, she began to have cold feet. Like Bond mentioned, reality hit her. Ultimately, it's what she chose to do with that reality/fear that broke my heart deeply.

Even sadder is that we don't hate each other or have issues with each other. She chose to brood on an external fear or what I call an uncontrollable variable.

Because we're not married, I think there should be a lighter version of the DB/DR rules. I'm not saying that there aren't rules that are constant in all situations, but I also think that because there's relatively way less baggage/history between dating couples, there shouldn't be rules that are so absolute, i.e. no this no that. Instead of merely no talking, no gifts, no nothing, isn't there a balance that can be struck? Things can be healthy in controlled quantities and in moderation, right?

I'm not saying dropping off gifts or fireworks in her name or anything, but what about very occasional (once every two weeks/once a month) non-relationship texts? What about Xmas text?

Is wooing someone post-break up a lost art now?

On the somewhat plus side, I know that we didn't breakup because I screwed up due to a ghastly flaw of mine. We broke up because she was afraid of an unknown variable. Yes, I'm still improving myself and if she comes back, she'll get an even better Alamo.

I agree, let her go. She knows where to find you if she wants a relationship with you. Now is the time for you to work on you and discover all the amazing things about you!