I have written here about my lifelong friend whose husband left a year ago. Moved right in with OW. Left 2 lovely daughters and a doting wife. The past year has been awful for them - we can all relate.
I wrote here about a month ago that he wanted to come back. My friend had finally accepted things. He wanted to come home to the house, the pool, the cars etc. Very material. He never once said how much he loved her, missed her, wanted her. She said no. She continued with her moving forward plan.
This week her H finally signed the separation agreement. And paid on thier line of credit so she could get her mortgage. Today he was to meet his daughter for lunch for her birthday. But he did not show. Instead - he drove to a high bridge, parked his truck and jumped off. He committed suicide!
I am at the cottage. I am going home to help her plan the funeral. We are all in shock. I am just sick.
Please keep them in your thoughts and prayers.
Barb
OMG, I'm so sorry Barb. I hope your friend realizes she is not responsible for this, he made bad choices and the final one was the worst of all. He did this to himself. My prayers are with you folks.
The absolute in selfishness.
He creates more devastaion in their lives.
Sorry it ended that way.
Thank you Wii. It is so hard to know how to feel. What to think. I am just horrified. They were close family friends. Their daughters were friends of my daughter. My daughter is just shocked too. She called my ex who acted like he didn't even know him yet he had been to our home numerous times.
The hard thing will be keeping his family from blaming my friend. She struggled so much during this past year. It was so hard on her. She was NEVER unkind to him. But it will be hard for guilt not to play a part in this and for her to second guess herself.
I have weird feelings myself as I've spent so much time helping her move forward and things I've said and felt about him and what he did to her. So hard to know how to feel. But I sure know how his daughters must feel. This is just horrible.
Barb
Yes Pollyanna,
This is it. The ultimate revenge. The totally selfish way to go. And in the most prominant place. Something that shut the highway down for hours and will make front page news. Something his daughters will have to live with forever. And his oldest daughter will remember this on every birthday to come.
I had just wished her happy birthday on facebook about 5 min before I was contacted.
I just feel so sick
Barb
Horrible, horrible thing. It's good your friend and her family have you!
What a tragedy.
My neighbors ex-H ended his life because his fiance called off the wedding. And my brothers ex-W ended her life last year on the run from the law. She had let alcohol and drugs bring her soul lower than whale sh!t.
My friend and I have often talked about this possibility. He was very despondent in the past few weeks. I was familiar with the signs although none of us really thought he would do it. He had hinted, but not spoke of it directly. And as I had told her many times - you can't stop him if he decides to do it. We had spent all day last Sunday together and had this discussion then.
And why am I so familiar with this? My ex made several serious suicide attempts during our marriage. He was hospitalized more than once for attempts. It was a horrible thing to know but again - no one can stop someone who is determined to do it.
This funeral will be one of the toughest ever to get through. I don't even know where to begin. But I guess the funeral home may have some experience with similar situations and hopefully offer some good bereavement counselling. I will ask about this when we go there tommorrow.
Barb
oh no, how terrible and sad! my heart goes out to the family and all involved, so sorry to hear this, I will make sure to pray for them and will have my church pray for them!
Ex was also suicidal for a while, it's all in their hands, his mom, several counselors and even I tried to talk sense into him to no avail... depression is a terrible thing... the person him/herself must get professional help and medication.
Seemed like he was trying to fill a horrible void with ow and then since that didn't work out wanted to move back in not for your friend but in efford to fill the void (the reason ex moved back in, didn't work). If she would have let him back there was no guarantee he wasnt going to commit suicide then, he needed help she couldn't provide. Tell your friend this has always been out of her hands, no one could've made him do anything, he had to accept he needed help, can't force anyone to change.
Does she attend any church? do you? not sure if funeral homes have resources to direct her, right now her family needs to cling to God to go through this horrible ordeal.
Wow. I'll just mention that none of us can judge the soul or motives of a person so despondent that he would do this. He may have been planning to come home and make his peace and settle his arrangements and then do it. I'm no shrink but this is entirely possible. That's what he did anyway. Closed out the accounts and executed the plan. Horribly sad. Sorry for your loss. Wonder.
Thanks everyone. It helps that you all understand how this is - I'm sure many of us thought it could happen to us.
I'm not sure if my friend has a church right now but I do and can and will suggest it. Some of the funeral homes do have excellent bereavement counsellors though and that can help in a different way as well.
When we spoke today - she sounds ok, but very much in shock. Our mutual friend (we've all been together since toddlers or so) was with her. So that made me feel so much better. I know I won't feel ok until and can be with her.
Barb
Oh No Barb that is terrible!! Its horrible for those girls, its them that will have to live with this- and your friend, she must be beside herself--just sad sad news all around!
Your a good friend to go be with them Barb, suicide is just the worst thing, our 21 yr old family friend took his life earlier this year and it haunts me still
Hugs to all of you.
I'm really sorry to hear it. I feel for everyone involved including the guy himself. It's not easy to do what he did no matter how selfish or bad. He must've felt complete utter despair inside. May his soul rest in peace.
I hope those left behind realize that we can't control what others do. Just awful sad news, I especially feel for the kids.
Yes - just a sad sad situation. Who knows what makes anyone reach this level of dispair. I'm haunted by the thoughts of it. For the past year we have thought of this happening and I could SO relate. Not in doing it but in knowing how my ex had tried it and always wondering when and if he was going to. I know this is SO hard on my daughter for that reason too. Fortunately I have great friends also. As I am at the cottage - one of my friends went straight to be with my daughter. And one of our mutual friends and her terrific husband went to be with the bereaved family. I did not go home immediately as Josh and I had just started drinking champagne to toast our new boat. It was late, rainy, I was tired and the bit of booze might have been just too much.
So I'm heading to be with her in about an hour. Will phone her soon to check on plans. WIll take me a few hours.
We must continue to remind our loved ones that nothing is so bad that there is no way out. For some reason - he figured he was finished financially. He was early 50s, an exec with a quarter million income. No way he was "finished" but he also is deeply in debt and no one could figure out where the money was going. Still - with his earning power unless it was going to loan sharks - what could have made him do this?
I did not sleep well. It will be a very difficult few days.
Barb
Oh my goodness! I am so sorry. Prayers for your friend and her daughters. As others said, this was him being selfish and not thinking at all about the impact his actions will have on his kids.
(((((Hugs)))))
Know what you mean Barb, last year when ex was fired for reasons that he is lucky not to be in jail for! he def. hit some sort of rock bottom ( or so we thought) he made references to not wanting to live, and i said to him.. for once in your life think of someone besides yourself! you can get up, dust yourself off and start again, if you did something to yourself, your son , not to mention your elderly mother ( and other fam members) would have to live with it, suck it up and carry on!
It angered me that he would even speak this way, after all the other hurt he had caused people-
Your friends ex must of known what an impact this would have on his family and on his daughters birthday, just selfish and awful!
I am really sorry to hear about this. Your friend is lucky to have you. (((((Barb))))
kat
I am so saddened to hear this Barb. Your friend is lucky to have you to stand by her during what will undoubtably be the toughest time in her life. Divorce is difficult, but to have a spouse, or estranged spouse, commit suicide must be so much worse. There will probably be people who look for someone or something to blame, and they may try to blame her. You need to stay right there for her and let her know that she is absolutely not responsible. HE made bad choices in his life and she was not responsible! I think it is good that the two of you had actually talked about this possibility before it even happened. That will help gte her through. You are an amazing woman and I am sure you are an amazing friend to her.
I agree with Karen Barb, this was a selfish act that will probably haunt his daughter every remaining birthday of her life. But he didn't care about that. He took the easy way out. I have to say that with all that has happened in my life, I have never once wanted my children to live with something like this. How selfish.
Thank you all for your sweet comments. C and I have been friends forever - through good and bad. No one could relate to her like me when her H left her for OW but I never had to deal with something of this magnitude.
I drove home from the cottage and was there for several hours today. They seem to be doing ok but some of the talk was very hard on the girls. They had some friends there so that helped. One of the girls friends actually saw him jump.
One of the daughters wanted to let OW know. C was outraged and does not want her anywhere near. He had broke up with OW and I really understand how my friend feels. I hope OW stays away.
I am going to the funeral home tommorrow to help her plan the funeral. It is so surreal as she was just getting the divorce stuff done and bought a condo to move into (the house has sold - new people move in June 28). We are hoping that his insurance policies pay out for suicides as she has maxed out the line of credit since he refused to pay her support for the past 12 months and she did not work. So there is nothing. I hope she finds this out soon so she can stop stressing.
And his family came today from out of town. I was worried they might try to blame her and that is one of the reasons I really wanted to get her back. They were ok, though. I think they realize that some of the things he had told them about her are really not true. She was married to him for 25 years and raised lovely girls.
Just a very difficult time for all.
Barb
Sounds like it's going as well as could be expected. Hang in there, Barb!
Thanks WI. The next few days will be a blur no doubt but its nice when God shows you exactly what he needs you to do.
Barb
Happy Mother's Day Barb!
hugs, kat
Thanks Kat!
My daughter bought me the most lovely arrangement of white gerbera daisies. They were here last night when I got home from the cottage/my friend's house.
I spent most of my day with my friend planning the funeral. It is so weird as one week ago today we spent the day together doing something fun but we did talk about her separation agreement, his despondencey and drove past his new apt and her new condo. A week later to be planning his funeral is so strange.
Barb
Happy Mother's Day, Barb!
Thank you Wii! It was a weird way to spend Mother's Day but the best I could do with my time.
My daughter gave me some lovely gifts from her and her brother and we are going to go out later today for pedicures and dinner at our favourite Cantonese restaurant.
Barb
Today will be visitation at the Funeral Home. It is still so weird to me that this is happening. Just a week ago she and I were chatting and emailing about how the future would be brighter when she got into her new condo and could start moving forward. One week ago today she and her soon to be EX signed their separation agreement. I met her for lunch to celebrate.
She has found some life insurance policies and so far we don't know if they pay out on suicide. The mortgage insurance does not! I hope the survivor benefits on his pension will be enough for her. Otherwise, the widow of a .25 million a year man will be bankrupt. This is just horrible.
Barb
The man was not in his right mind. People always say what a selfish act suicide is, but suicides are irrational and in unbearable pain. They convince themselves their loved ones will be better off without them...
This is what I was thinking until you wrote that one of his girls actually saw him jump. Do you think he arranged it that way?! If so, what a horrible thing to do to your kid.!
I hope your poor friend is not left bankrupt. It is good she is surrounded by friends.
I work in the insurance industry and depending on the state that you are in (actually very few do not) the policies will pay for suicide if the policy has been in place for longer than 2 years.
Another angle to take is that the policy will pay unless the suicide was planned prior to taking the exam or taking the policy out. The burden of proof is on the insurance company to prove that the person was already planning, pre-meditating this suicide before even taking the policy out=very tough to do unless there is a written plan dated before the policy was active.
I also unfortunatly am familiar with these clauses as this is what took my fatehrs life as well. Any help that I might be able to pass along I would be glad to share.
It is important to concentrate on the emotional side of things but even if no one wants to bring it up the $$ side of things are just as heavily on your friends mind right now (and should be) as well. Someone needs to work on rounding up policies, 401Ks, etc...find out how long a death certificate with take to get (might be longer in case of suicide as it is considered a "crime" technically) might be a short time. You will need death certificates for any insurance claims, etc.
Also another place to look is with this mans group health insurance policy there is often a low cost rider that can be bought with a set $$ amount of life insurance up to 3,4,5X his salary paid thru the group health company and that would have no suicide out clause either.
Hope this helps, I will have more later I am sure this is the stuff that comes to mind right away going back thru my memory of what I did and learned with my dads case....
So very tragic.
I'll admit, I've worried about my soon-to-be-ex at times. I'm actually glad he has the young Asian girlfriend right now, seems to be perking up his mood a bit so I haven't worried about him as much.
Thanks everyone,
Actually I may have written it wrong but it was not his daughter who saw him jump but one of his friends.
I always worried about my ex and his depression. He attempted suicide several times during our marriage. His father had also attempted it. I always worried about him but as Ellie says about her ex - they're not so depressed when they're with OP. Mind you - I think my ex's new R is beginning to ravel and the kids are worried about him.
Buffet - your info is very timely and helpful. Thanks. She has been under extreme financial distress since he refused to give her $ when he left (and he could well afford to). I was under the understanding that it did pay out after a couple of years - just as you say. They DID renew their mortgage a year ago so it might not be valid but he does have many policies at work. I will pass on the info you gave me - I'm grateful for it.
Barb
Hey Barb
Hope everything went as well as can be expected today and that your friend and her children are holding up ok.
Wow - I wrote it wrong again. I'm just SO tired. It was his daughter's friend who saw him jump. There - I got it right that time.
Karen - the photos and slide show were wonderful. They all held up pretty well and the lineup outside the door lasted the entire visitation. I went early so that was good.
The funeral is tommorrow. I will be there with Ashley and several friends.
Barb
Hugs, Barb - you're a good friend.
Funny, as much depression as there is in the WASs, you'd think this would happen on the boards - but I don't remember a case. I DO remember one woman whose WAH was shot to death, probably by the OWs guy.
Barb,
I am so sorry about this news. Praying for the best under the circumstances for your friend, her children and you.
Hugs
Thanks EH!
Ellie: I think so too. I know that my ex tried it a few times but in so many of the cases - they are with OP when they leave so not depressed in the same way.
One of my dear DB friends from the beginning had her H break up with his OW at about the 2 year mark. She then took her own life. That was pretty creepy.
I ran in to a cop friend last night who knew about it. He also went through a marital breakup at the 25 year mark (same as my friend and also me). He told me that in cases like this - it IS purposeful. They jump to "Stick it" to the soon to be ex. I know I have thought that for sure in this case. He did not want to pay her support despite his huge salary. But to kill himself?
Oh I will be glad when the funeral is over. It is this morning. My daughter, and several of my friends will be attending with me. It will be hard for all.
Barb
You know, it's NEVER purposeful. Depression is a serious disease, one that makes it's sufferers so miserable that death seems like a better alternative. Whether they have angry or bitter thoughts at the end or not, it's really never a rational choice. (Unless maybe someone has a terminal illness).
And who knows? He may have thought his ex and kids would be better off without him, and that his insurance would be worth more to them.
I can tell you when I was going through the suicidal thoughts, that I was pissed off when the Dr. asked me how I had planned to hurt myself. Hurt myself?! I wasn't crazy, I didn't want to hurt myself - I just wanted the pain to stop!
That is how bad the pain is.
And I had half-talked myself into thinking that my ex was a good father and that the kids would be ok, not suffering through the divorce and how it was destroying me - everyone would be better off if I was just gone.
Barb, so sorry that your friend is having to go through this.....what a very sad thing. I am surprised that more WAS's don't look in the mirror one day, realize exactly what they have done, and not be able to bear it.
Donna & Ellie,
I know and it is horrible to think that someone was in that much pain. It is really hard to get past all the mean things he did to his wife while he was with OW, though. Cutting her off financially when she had no job? Telling her he was leaving her in a Post It note? Calling the girls on their cel phones to say he was leaving?
Last week was totally financial. He did NOT want to pay her support. Yet he made a ton of money and they'd been in the same house for 20 plus years. He had paid on their LOC last week. Signed a temporary support agreement last week. He just did not want to see a lot of his paycheck going to her yet it was him who insisted she quit her good job 10 years ago to help get the kids off to school in the morning and to stay home and keep a perfect house. He wanted a Stepford wife.
The funeral was lovely. If you can believe it - his mother and his oldest daughter delivered the Eulogies and his daughter (who is an aspiring singer/songwriter sang 3 of his favourite songs. His mom talked about depression from a personal perspective and it all really helped.
His lawyer was away last week on vacation. Maybe he could have convinced him that he wasn't ruined financially. He came at the very end of visitation. He told her that he didn't even know they'd been apart a year or that he had been living with an OW. Steve was just too embarrassed to tell him I guess. That is the kind of perfectionist he was. At any rate - he did reassure my friend that she will be ok financially. He was appalled that she had not received support up until now.
So many missing pieces in this puzzle. I hope she finds the strength to carry on. It will be incredibly difficult. She has struggled so much in the past and fortunately - she has let some of us help her. We will have to be there for her now more than ever.
It is all so exhausting.
Donna - I'm sorry that this must bring up a lot of bad stuff for you. It does for me as well - remembering all the times Chuck (my ex) tried it. The horror I felt each time I went to the E.R. and the worry he would try it all again.
There are some things we just can't fully understand.
Barb
Nothing to add, just want you to know I'm thinking of you today.
Thanks Wii,
I feel so very sad. So lost. So helpless to my friend. But I'll keep trying to help her.
Barb
I need some advice. I need to know what to say to my friend. On top of all the horrible stuff she is dealing with, something else just happened. While she tried to do the right thing, portray her ex as wonderful guy - she was going through papers from his work today and found stacks and stacks of love letters from another girlfriend. From 2004. Before the recent OW he was living with. She even found lists of him trying to decide whether to stay with her (then - 6 years ago) or stay. Or to wait till the girls were grown and leave then.
So she now knows that her whole marriage was a sham. And she is sick. And as she is off to buy a plot right now she wants to go for a single, not a double. She wants to flush his ashes down the toilet.
I think I'm going to phone her and ask her to postpone her decision on the plot. To wait. To give it more time.
I need some help. I offered to take her for dinner tonight or to just go be with her. But some help here would be great. This is just So hard.
Barb
buy the single plot for her husband...she can chose to be buried somewhere else for sure
or
let her take a pinch of his ashes and flush them
he is dead and gone...however she can deal with it, I say, let her go for it
Burn all the letters and add those ashes to his. Be done with him, she already took the high road when she put on the front that he was a good guy. She doesn't owe him anything else.
kat
If she can not deal with having the ashes, given the circumstances don't think I would want anything to do with them right now. Maybe she should just give them to his Mother. That way she doesn't carry any more guilt than she already had.(before she found the letters, don't know about now)
At least this way she can still feel like she will be taking the high road. No plot to mull over and purchase either.
I just hope she doesn't make a rash decision she will regret later.
Just a thought.
I feel for you, your family, and your friend.
JAK
Thank you all. She just called me and talked for a long time till the funeral home called. His family wants the burial of the ashes now. She's decided to get the double plot so she doesn't upset her daughters. They're currently beside themselves with grief. Unfortunately, daddy is on a pedestal and can do no wrong in their eyes. She told me she does want to flush his ashes down the toilet or throw them off the Skyway bridge where he jumped - and I SO get this.
I told her I'm coming after she goes to the cemetary today and will take her out for dinner. She needs to get out of the house and just do something "normal". Then we're going to bring all those cards and letters here where I have a campfire pit and do some burning. I still have a couple of things to add to that fire too.
Her oldest daughter is driving her nuts. Demanding and self centered. She shows no care for anyone else's feelings (my friend or the younger daughter). Can't sleep alone. Wants her boyfriend (20 years her senior) to stay with them. He is eating them out of house and home and contributes NOTHING. ON the day of the suicide he just showed up, did not hug her daughter or even say a word. When the house was full and they needed food she asked him to get pizza. He ordered $90 worth then asked her for her purse (she had to pay for it).
If something doesn't change quick - someone else might die at this rate.
Thanks for listening to my vent.
Barb