And after that
....*hugs*
welcome. it's not where we expected to be, but this place has some pretty decent surprises!
Welcome, faith to the next chapter. The one we get to write ourselves.
Welcoming words to you:
And the three greatest gifts of moving on
Are forgiveness, hope and the great beyond
After that perhaps peace can come
Peace will come
Mary Chapin Carpenter
"Leaving Song"
FIB,
I am viewer more than poster, extreme best wishes for you and the kids next week. You are an example of the fine type of men still around. I hope you find peace and serenity, with dignity.
KDH
FIB, just wanted you to know that we are thinking about you and your children. Praying that all goes well!
Deb
Trial tomorrow. Last night a tree came down two blocks away and we lost power. S9 was scared. STBXW was out. Again...Saturday night..my night with the children. S9 wanted to sleep with me but I told him no but he could 'camp out'. I brought his sleeping bag in and brought the Coleman lamp in from the garage. D6 had crashed already. We started some father son talk.
STBXW comes in around 1130/1145 PM...pulls S9 out and tells him to sleep in his own bed..he's a big boy...etc. He starts to cry. Accuses me of 'keeping him this way til he's 18'...enabling..etc. I tell STBXW that he's only been on this planet 9 years...he's scared...he's allowed to have a 'camp out'. She takes her phone out and has someone listen to me. I didn't care. I told S9 that I would leave his sleeping bag and that if he got scared, he could crash there. He came in once and STBXW came up and dragged him out. He came back again and fell asleep.
Background: S9 had two bad nightmares this week: he dreamt a gray cloud was following him; he dreamt someone broke into the house while he was playing video games and shot him. Each time he came running in at 5 am or so. STBXW photo'd again. Two weeks ago when STBXW was leaving with the kids early to go skiing for a day, she laid out sleeping bags on the floor on her side of the bed and both kids slept on the floor beside her.
Again...Saturday night, my night with the kids.
Was slow to read her last counterresponse to her affidavit:
1) I 'secret' S9 away
2) Since I paid my atty 2K and used my IRA to pay my malpractice premium, that WAS willful thus proving contempt.
3) When she had a tooth abscess a few weeks ago, I 'refused to take her to the hospital, forcing her to call her parents (rubbish...I ran around the house looking for pain meds and called 2 pharmacies AND wrote a prescription for her AFTER she had just called the police on me)..and..refused to let the kids say good bye to her (gawd).
FIB
_________
It's such a horrible feeling to feel sucked into a vortex that you can't break free of. It's a domino effect.
Reading STBXW's responses...is pretty frightening...but then again...I guess mine appear that way to her. She is still pushing to prove contempt and have me thrown in jail. .
Well..it all starts tomorrow.
Thanks to all of you for all your support. When you read this stuff, it's hard to extricate yourself and tell yourself "that's not me and it's all a lie."
Wish me luck. FIB
Fib -
Repeat after me:
"In the future, I will not date whack jobs"
Ellie
I do so hope that justice prevails for your children tomorrow.
I've been mostly sticking around here to see how a few people (you, Bobbie Jo, Kalni) get through this bump in the road of life.
Ellie - the scary thing is that one cannot always predict how another will turn out. I am sure that Franks's wife was a real sweetheart at one time, but something called anger is what drives her.
FIB,
I will be thinking of you as well today. I will also say a prayer in Greek for you. Not many people I know, would have been so noble and gracious with that woman. Thank God your kids are old enough to remember when they grow older.
Good Luck!!! Many many hugs
K
PS I didnt understand your comment on my thread. I hope it was only stress talking... If not, SHAME on you Frank!!!
Thoughts and prayers are with you today. Hold that head high, I think you have done more than any other person I can think of to save your m.
God be with you,whatever happens your life will just get better.
(((())))
Frank, I will be saying a prayer for you and thinking about you throughout the day. Tell me, do you have a new home set up so you can get out of dodge ASAP? Your kids need a safe haven...
Frank..
To the future. To justice. To a safe place, for you and your children.
My positive thoughts and prayers are with you.
*hugs*
Court...I start out as usual commenting on how out of place the manmade lake is here...contrasting the misery of being here vs the tranquility of the lake. It is cold, raw and rainy this morning befitting the occasion. The water is rippled and wind-whipped.
I believe trapt had some powerful comment to say to his wife at his final moment of D. I'm sorry but I won't have any. I just prefer to walk away and start over.
FIB
Praying for you Frank. A lot today. I hope you and your children find some peace. (((Hugs)))
To D-F...no home yet. On paper, STBXW should be leaving until the house sells. So, I should be able to work out a departure time when sold. OTOH, who knows what the judge will order if this goes to to trial.
To Kalni...I only meant that I seem to be reading your sitch wrong and didn't want to let MY sitch interefere on how I perceive things.
Gypsy, BND, 4kids, figgeroni, CTH, deb, et al....touched by your support. My 4 year saga, filme noire is finally coming to an end.
To kml: no more whack jobs; no more whack jobs; no more whack jobs........
FIB
Hey FIB...following along....good luck. Don't want to discourage you but we all share kids with the Xs so...we are pretty much almost assured of a sequel. Hopefully with alot less drama than the original.
Keep your chin up Frank!
hey FIB,
Goold luck and stand tall.
To this day, the cold blank stare on (x)W's emotionless face the day everything was finalized still haunts me. Even just the other morning as I'm lying next to her and she was still fast asleep, that look crossed through my mind and gagged me a bit.
For me, that moment in time was like a casket being lowered into the ground and it finally hits you, a death has in fact occured.
STBXW's brother showed up in his clergy attire. Her mom is here. FIB
I have been trying to catch up with you recently. Good luck.
kat
Maybe they are going to do an exorcism on her?
Good Luck!
Maybe they are going to do an exorcism on her?
Good Luck!
GREAT! Now I'm going to have "the power of Christ compells you!" ringing through my head all day long. Ironically, "The Exorcist" os one of (x)W's all time favorite films. I had the music set as her ring tone for a bit there
Good one, Sandy!
Thoughts and prayers are with you today, FIB.
Almost 1130...still sitting in hallway. Hurry up and wait. FIB
It's a day.. long coming.
I look forward to the joy of you having a home for you and your beautiful children, to be able to be a calm haven, a place of love. Where kids can be kids and eggshells are either in the frig or the trash.
Where dull is exciting. Where you sleep in the same room every night. When you spend more money on wine than replacing printer cartridges, paper, staples, paper clips, filing cabinets, rented storage space for paperwork and hand trucks.
To create YOUR life. And relax. Before the kids are tween agers.
*hugs*
Frank.. do you have any family or friends there?
No. Alone. My office manager was here but she was released.
OK...here we go. From L:
-there is no way, based on my job that this judge is going to give me custody.
-I will do much worse if we go to trial
-her atty threatens to bring an expert that will testify what a surgeon should be making and impute my income
-custody pretty much standard. 2 dinners for me during the week; every other weekend
-would raise my income a bit to increase child support
-60/40 favoring me on sale of house
-maintenance for 3 years
L is now back in courtroom. If not signed today, trial.
FIB
F
I shall offer prayer support. Hope things are pretty well equitably sorted out.
T
I would hope that you're finished by now Frank, but I wanted to let you know that I'm still listening and praying.
I've never understood how custody could be so unequal when the father is a caring, loving, and involved man. Truly our legal system makes no sense and only does further harm to hurting families.
Let the end come, however. You've served your time and need the opportunity to begin living your life again.
Many blessings,
Bill
In essence, all the affidavits, police calls, motions....mean nothing.
For 4 years I have remained under the same roof. I've seen D6 grow from 2-6, S9 from 5-9. Was it worth it in view of the abuse STBXW dished out?
FIB
BillM..Bworl...thanks for your support.
Dad's don't cut it in NY. No bruise or cigarette burns? They go to mom.
Almost 4. L is in chambers. My butt hurts from sitting on these wood benches all day.F
Thinking of you Frank...
xxx
K
I've tossed the cushion off my chair in solidarity, though I suspect people in the know wear bike shorts when sitting in the hallways on these days.
Was it worth it? Only you know.. but the memories you've made with your children can never be taken away.
*hugs*
Rooting for you.
Your kids are about the same as mine. At least they've grown to the point to remember you in the house.
The test is from today forward. No matter how it turns out be the better person and give them an example of what a great man and parent is.
If you do that, your ex can't tear you down.
Hugs to you Frank. Hoping the judge uses their head and doesn't just go with the usual rulings.
The test is from today forward. No matter how it turns out be the better person and give them an example of what a great man and parent is.
If you do that, your ex can't tear you down.
Whole heartedly agreed.
sending good thoughts and praying
I am touched by all the people who came to post today.
Truly...you are wonderful people.
L came out around 4:15PM...we had 10 minutes to sign, but, too many issues, so, the judge gave us until Thursday. The stip should be signed then, thus, I will be divorced (well, final decree will be pending)
Holidays will be rotated.
I get 2 dinners mid week.
Every other weekend.
3 non consec weeks summer.
60/40 house my favor.
STBXW gets a percentage of my practice, small and CS.
They requested an annual 1040 until my income reaches X dollars, capped, for CS which was OK with me since STBXW waives maintenance.
Stips on selling the house.
Until Thursday we will haggle over splitting the HELOC. On Thursday, in open court, I must renounce my claim of Cruel and Inhuman and STBXW must do the same (the wonderful State of NY). In court, she must say she begged me for sex for 12 months and I didn't give it to her. I must do the same. Now THAT will be a scene.
So...all....I will be divorced on Thursday. At which time I will close this thread up.
After four years, I still can't conceive of never seeing my kids during the week at nights..to tuck in and say good night....to talk to....to tell stories. I know that will happen on the weekends, but, I guess you sorta deny this in your mind until it happens.
There is no choice on this. STBXW and I must be apart and we can saw the kids in two.
In May, 2006, my STBXW told me that "she loved me but wanted the romance back." She wasn't kidding. LOLOL.
Strength.....and honor.
FIB
FIB I know you have have a long, hard 4 years, but as someone else wisely pointed out, it was 4 years in the house with your kids, and that is priceless. Your D went from 2-6 with you there. That is crucial, because if you had been gone when she was 2 she would have no memory of ever having lived with you. I know that going forward away from your kids will be difficult, but staying with your X would have been more difficult. Now you will have hte freedom to continue the loving relationship with the kids withut her negative impact. Blessings as you go forward.
Strength and honor indeed. You have had to endure a living hell.
So it sounds like you will do ok financially. Losing the time with the kids hurts a lot, but bear in mind that you will gain it back as time progresses.
I am concerned that you still have to coparent with a prima donna azzhole. And there is some sucker guy out there that may incur her rath again.
Hi Frank..
What a day.. what a long four years. What a relief, what a joy, what a sadness.
I feel great anger at how the laws and guidelines of the state of NY create such toxic environments in divorcing homes, making a bad situation worse, evolving to toxic insanity and inequitable results.
Thank goodness you're the man and father you are. Strength, honor. It's nice being the fun parent. Being a safe harbor, a constant in your children's lives is priceless. You are the father and the daddy. Your children know, love and depend on you. And they're at the age where even if you cannot tuck them in every night, you can be involved in their sports, after school activities, as much as your time allows.
It takes time, but things end up working. You've had the strong positive attitude through the duration of this process. Thank goodness it only lasted as long as a single presidential term. What a soft relief it will be to live a life based in reality, rather than jockeying for position while watching your back.
Children need both parents. And you're the type of dad many children dream of. Thank you for sharing your perseverance, nobility and beauty of the soul. You're a good guy.
*hugs*
Now.. about that mole on my shoulder...
Frank, I am glad to read that it practically over. Maybe you can make your declarations in court with a silly voice, since the whole thing is just ridiculous.
Having it close to over, I am happy for.
But I am also angry. I wish that you had more time with the kids, too. You will have to just take advantage of the phone, maybe even Skype, every night. No one wrote up how often you can speak with them, go to their events, etc.
I will miss you if you don't stay in touch, but also can understand. Are you on the alt?
Hi FIB -
I don't know you, but have been following along.
What a remarkable man. HUGS!
Until Thursday we will haggle over splitting the HELOC. On Thursday, in open court, I must renounce my claim of Cruel and Inhuman and STBXW must do the same (the wonderful State of NY). In court, she must say she begged me for sex for 12 months and I didn't give it to her. I must do the same. Now THAT will be a scene.
Sorry Frank, WTH is THAT? I mean, this is a joke right?
Anyway, although I dont understand much of your legal system, what I read, doenst sound very very bad. It is horrible for a parent that never chose to be without his kids, but this is what divorce is about. Also, IMHO, I dont know why, I get this feeling that later on, your wife will be "needing more free time for herself" and you will get more time with your kids...
S'agapo Frank, get your life back my friend. Enough with being hostage to that lunatic.
K
You have GOT to stick around. You need to report about your dating stories, we will all look out for you, dont want you to get stuck to a whack job again ...
Frank,
This is enough to cause one to become an activist in changing the ridiculous family law in New York (and other places I imagine).
I can almost feel the battle within you. An incredible anticipation for freedom from the oppression you have been under, while at the same time the intense sadness of not having your children with you each day. Know that we empathize with you on this.
I will actually hope, with others, that XXX will find herself eager as time goes by to allow the children to spend more time with you. Perhaps when she no longer needs to put on a show for the legal proceedings, she will return to her self-indulgent ways, and find that things would be better for her if she let the children stay with you more often. I suppose it's not so nice to wish that upon her, but I hate the thought of you only having 2-3 nights every couple of weeks with you little ones.
As for the rest, does it sound like you've made out reasonably ok? I get that sense, but I'm not sure. Divorce is always messy and always costly.
Haven't heard more recently about future possibilities. Are those still on the horizon? I'm hoping so. Perhaps that will make it easier to get more time with your children.
In the end, the relief of finally beginning your new life will hopefully be like the proverbial breath of fresh air. You have labored through one of the most horrific co-habitational situations that I can ever recall reading on this board. You've managed to navigate your way through this with dignity, grace, and honor, all the while choosing to be the better person.
I will echo Kalni and tell you that I am not willing to lose the friendship that we have made, even if it has been electronic only to this point. You were not only a rock for your children through your personal situation. You have been a rock for many through this site. I completely understand the need for a time of healing, and can appreciate that this place might be too stark a reminder of the last several years. At the same time, you have and may continue to serve as an invaluable help to others going through similar circumstances.
And on a selfish note, I would hate the thought of losing touch with a valued friend.
To the end game Frank.
You have perservered and risen above the chaos, emerging not just intact, but better than you were before.
You have epitomized our call of "strength and honor."
To new beginnings...
Bill
Bill, I just love the way your express things!
xx
GM all. Realistically, after we split, it WILL be difficult with my job time-wise during the week. If I have to be up at 5 AM to go to work, I would need someone to live in once a week to get them on the school bus.
I spoke with my sis who suggested that perhaps more equally splitting summer (4 weeks instead of 3) could add more time. I only have until Thursday to finalize this. Once signed, it goes into effect. Legally it can't be challenged until the final decree comes out.
I am at odds about somethings, but, dragging this out longer??? I think not.
I need to come up with a schedule of things that I want to keep in the house next.
If anyone has any thoughts about schedules, odd/even re kids ages and she wants Xmas holiday split, first half/second half and rotated every year.
To Donna_Found: I am on the other book of faces place
To Gypsy...thanks for your support. Moles can be removed under local as an outpatient.
Finally...to my men.....how did you process this? How? How do you process not saying goodnight to your kids every night? Waking up alone without the cartoons on? Hmmm...they grow up and don't want to be with you over their friends...
I guess...you just do what 'men' have to do and refocus, again, on self and career?
I have to process this. I can see it's going to be rough for me initially.
FIB
I used to tell my girls stories before bed every night.
When we separated, they would ask for stories here before bed. For some reason, my creativity was gone. Since they are sleeping in the same room at my place -- instead of having their own rooms -- I replaced the stories with a good night prayer. They both get to add something to the prayer.
I'm not yet divorced, but I've been out of the house 10 months. It was such a shock that I really barely got anything done beyond the bare basics for six months.
It took a while to just get used to things and then I had to find projects to motivate me.
Bill and Kalni...we posted nearly at the same time.
I posted to Kalni the other day that perhaps it was better for me not to comment right now. I seem to misinterpret what I am reading and, it's probably best for her to follow what others are posting right now rather than what I have to say.
As usual, Bill, you have a wonderful way of expressing what is on your mind. We have known each other now for a long time, electronic and by voice. I recall all the pain you were in. I recall the story of the vines in your backyard. Yet...I also know the rebirth that occurred for you and the good fortune of finding Deb.
My son will be crushed by this initially. My daughter is tough and, G-d bless her, I think she will weather this fine. I left at 6AM..kissed both of them on the forehead. My son woke briefly and said "I love you dad." He has his first baseball practice today.
It's all about them now. I will not miss STBXW. She's done her work well. Reality is setting in and I will miss my kids terribly. I may need to be alone to ponder this. I know that, thru this all, I've been able to compartmentalize this..to be able to get the divorce work done...to focus on patients and operating...to be strong for them. But, now, I guess, the jack-in-the-box door has flipped open and the evil figure has popped out to take my kids from me. I am flooded with feelings of loss for my kids.
FIB
Clinging....I am touched by your story and I can 'reach'. The courts decide what is best for our children.
There are many men out there that shirk their responsibilities, that, I think, makes it much rougher for the real dads out there...like you Clinging....that truly love and are invested in their children. All I can say to you, is, that, find comfort in knowing that THOSE moments are the ones that they will remember and tell THEIR kids someday.
Yesterday, my attorney told me, that in front of the judge, STBXW's atty and the law guardian, that she professed that I was one of the most wonderful fathers that she has had and that he is truly man who wants time with his children. I got choked up and hugged her. It doesn't make much nevermind at the end of all this, but, I am fortunate that I had her thru this crisis.
FIB
Finally...to my men.....how did you process this?
Hey FIB, this is a tough one. It actually makes some anger resurface. It is probably the most difficult part in all of this. Humans do possess this uncanny ability to adapt. I have adapted to things I would never have thought possible.
I guess the first step is to accept that this is happening and that it is not our doing. Some days were and still are tougher than others. Just writing this is stirring some emotions. The XW has "forced" me to leave my home and my child. On the positive side, I see her every weekend. I make the most of our time together and I think it is my "duty" to show her that dad is there for her no matter where she might be sleeping.
I figured out a long time ago that children are probably more affected by how their parents react to certain situations than the situation itself.
So in conclusion FIB, I will not lie to you. You will have some difficult days. It will be up to you to decide whether you let yourself be drawn down and become a victim or rise above it and take the positive (however small it might be) from the situation. The possibilities are endless...find some activities that you always wanted to do but could not and go for it.
I agree that your children will take their cue from your attitude. Make the most of the time you have with them. I find that mine sometimes wait to do things until they are with me.
Things have a way of working out.
Drew....I know I haven't communicated much directly to you, but, I want to thank you for your support..today...prior. I've read your posts here and on other's threads. Thank you...from me.
To john....I admire you and the other fathers here who, despite the 'raw deal' we get, continue to push through and take care of their kids. I've posted to other men here in the past, that, our girls will choose men based on who WE are and how WE nurture them. It behooves us to set the standard for them. They need to learn from us that we love them...that we are there for them...that we show them we listen to them and show them affection.
The Difference a Dad MakesFIB
FIB,
I think you will get used to the "bad" routine. All 3 of you. You will find ways to compensate for the missed hours, you will continue to be the best dad they could have.
I am not a dad, but I've watched my kis with their dad. He has been good to them lathough he had even less time than what you will be getting. They love him dearly, they looked up to him, they felt close to him. The connection with your kids is strong and will get stronger.
K
I read the book FIB....and leaf through it on a regular basis (not to get too graphic but it is in my bathroom library).
I owe it to my daughter to be the best dad I can be....I may not have sworn an oath when I had a child but to me there is no bond which is deeper than parent and child.
FIB - sorry that the inequalities of the family law justice system are keeping you from your children.
Of some comfort is that as your children get older, they will have more of a say as to how much time they want to spend with you and even eventually have a say as to whether they want to live with you instead of your Ex-W.
It's obvious that you are a caring and loving father and they will grow up knowing this and wanting to have as much time with you as they can.
Best of luck,
BA
Is this a backslide?
This is tough.
FIB
Why do you feel you are backsliding FIB?
Frank--
I haven't posted to you before, but I have kept up with your thread--sometimes simply to restore my faith in men.
I'm so sorry you find yourself in this position. I remember how excruciating it was not to see my D every day. Over the past 2 years I have adjusted to it; I'm not happy about it, but we find a way to stay just as connected. First--there's nothing that prevents you from talking with them at bedtime each night, even when they're not with you, or after school, and you can still attend school and sports events even if it's not your "day." Ex's tend to act more reasonably in public. Second, I'll echo the sentiments of others--and throw in my own experience--and predict that once all the legal games are over, your ex will welcome you taking your children for extra time; she will return to her routine, such as it is, and will need more free time for herself. I hope you have a "right of first refusal" clause for those times.
This is absolutely horrible and painful, and I won't argue that. But you are a wonderful dad, and your children know that, and you will keep being a wonderful dad and adjust to the changes. And your time with your children will be low stress and without the distraction of all the craziness you've been dealing with, and you will be a refuge for them. Please don't despair--it will work out better than it appears right now.
FIB...
Start new bedtime routines....
If you read them a story, then read to them when they are at the exs too...if she balks at it, record yourself reading a story and send them with a tape (or a CD)
I believe too that your ex will want more free time
give her time to toss that too you
Frank...prayers for you and yours..I've been through this 2 times so i know how you feel..My boy was 10..my girl was 2...
you will start new traditions..you will find new ways to make their timeas with you special. you will create new memoeries that they will never ever forget..
what you become now...is what they will remember...they will remember a father...a good dad...who was their rock when the world around them crumbled...most of all hold your head high and know you fought the fight for the kids...
your life now will be what you make it..
I did not process it well overall, nor did they.
But, I did come to realize rather quickly, that much like (x)W, I took them for granted too over the years. All the times they'd ask me to 'fix this' or help with that, and you blow it off, as there's always tomorrow.
Life changes dramaticaly when tomorrow comes, but they are not there.
It is hard.
I got it.
My older sis feels I am not getting enough parenting time. Says I should have 4 weeks instead of 3 in summer. Says I should have a midweek sleepover. Says I should keep kids thru Monday AM. I DO have one of those 'as to the discretion of the parents' thingey in there to leave flexibility. I also know that once signed, you can't change these things.
I can see the extra week in summer. Keeping them thru Monday AM may not be practical now that I am alone and I am a physician, considering I will probably be up and out way before they leave for school, unless I had an au pair.
I also don't want to push this back to trial.
I spoke with my best buddy, 'Anthony', known to people here who have followed this for so long. He is a professional and is part owner of a large famous food company here. He gave me the 'refocus on your life and profession' speech...the 'the kids will grow up and out and you don't want to be 60 and yada yada..and what you all said, that, they will find a way to you as they get older'....
Should I push for this revision prior to signing on Thursday?
FIB
I do think that only having them for 3 weeks in the summer is unfair. Most arrangements split the summer school vacation period in half. I would petition for more time in the summer if I were you.
you can certainly petition...
I know Cori's ex only gets D7 for 2 weeks time in the summer
we have primary physical custody with her mom getting 50% visitation
however
she sees her every 3rd weekend of the month and split holidays
we are going back to court this summer to push for supervised visits
she is diagnosed unmedicated bi-polar
has tested positive on all drug tests ordered by the court
has swiped D7 and refused to return her
has not held a job in over 3 years
has filed false police reports several times
refuses to bathe D& during her monthly visits
the list goes on and on
our attorney says we are in for a battle
you can certainly ask for 4 weeks...what does your lawyer say?
Fig - why does your attorney say you are in for a battle? It sounds pretty cut and dry that the mother is not fit to be a responsible parent.
Frank - how much vacation do you get in the summer? My divorce judgement has both of us for 3 weeks each, but there is some stipulation about if we stay in town that it is just 2 weeks.
You should make sure there is the right of first refusal.
I agree with others - if you can peacefully coparent, I suspect your X will offer up more time with the kids so she can have more of her own adult time.
You may want to check out some books...
http://www.amazon.com/Joint-Custody-Jerk-Uncooperative-uncooperative/dp/0312141130http://www.amazon.com/Co-Parenting-Survival-Guide-Conflict-Difficult/dp/1572242450/ref=pd_sim_b_1
Hello there my friend,
Haven't spoken much as of late, still following though.
I must tell you that the drama of your court date sure stirred up many unpleasant memories. Believe me, trial sucks!
My advice, choose the battles very carefully. I only went to trial because a precedent had already been in place as far as visitation and X wanted to change it when she saw $ signs.
Choose what you can live with as it is written with the courts. Yes, there is the probability she will soften as far as the kids go, but every time she gets a bee in her bonnet the kids will be how she attacks you. To this day it is still being pulled on me at times. I just laugh most of the time considering my youngest is going on 17. He listens to me better than his mother. HA!
Overnights during the week are nice but how much interaction do you have when they're asleep? If you're not there when they wake or leave for school is a whole lot gained in parenting vs. evenings spent?
Ask for the 4th week in the summer, it shouldn't hurt to ask. Also, first right of refusal ends up being very important in having the kids, bonus time!
What we do for holidays is Thanksgiving is with me because their mom leaves to spend it with her husbands family. Christmas eve is spent with her and Christmas day is with me. Other holidays are written in the court order but got muddled up fairly quickly and wasn't that big of an issue.
Get the kids involved with activities outside the home because these are ways you can be involved outside of the assigned parenting time.
I feel for you my friend. This will be extremely difficult for some time, but I promise it will lighten up with time.
You will make memories that no one can take away and they will be very special for you and your children, just "us" and Dad!!
Remember, it's only a chapter, you're not even near the end of this book.
cire
Frank, sent you a message on FB, LOL!!
(I thought you would be leaving us, you are around more than before, what did you do? Laptop in OR?)
Hugs
Hello Frank,
In my opinion, if you "push" for any type of revision, the threat of going trial becomes imminent. And as your lawyer stated, it's not something that's in your best interest. I empathize with you and with your kids. However, I believe now is the time to be rational. What do you think?
Edwin
The BS in NY is endless. I love this state for many reasons but I hate it for exactly this. Every aspect of getting separated or divorced is pure crap.
Hang in there and don't give up the good fight. I don't mean fight like argue, I mean pursue what you want and need.
Our case went through THREE judges. Every time my exH got pinned in a corner his attny asked for a judge change. My attny and I consented twice and the third time we said no.
STAY STRONG.
Hi Frank..
Try and get more time with the kids, with a codicil for additional custody time if you change your career (which would make your available time less erratic).
Everyone shares what works and what didn't work in their posts. Find what rings true for you or piques your interest. 'Anthony' has a good point, the same way my sis-in-law used to say I didn't want to be 50 and looking for babysitters.
My kids are 24, 19 and 15 years of age, two boys and a girl. Time does go by in a flash though the footsteps may seem like drudgery at times. You all lived in a quagmire of division, yet you have flourishing relationships with both your children.
Consistency is key. As long as the kids know what to expect, they feel secure. Children model after their parents. They learn how to deal with conflict, emotions through your actions. Apparently my kids are doing very well right now with a father who is available only for holiday meals with an occasional dinner in thrown here and there. They have watched me struggle and succeed, fall on my face and keep trying.
Anyway.. while writing this I've been half listening to my daughter.. so I'm off to focus on what's important.
Enjoy the day. The best is yet to come.
*hugs*
Frank,
Agree wholeheartedly with making sure there is a right of first refusal clause.
Especially if, as I expect, your wife begins to want to slip away from the kids to pursue her interests, I would expect she will do it quietly by trying to ship them off to family and friends. You don't want that happening, especially if they could be with you instead.
I also like the idea of the opportunity to revisit custody amounts should your career schedule change. Always nice to have the option - perhaps you can always do this, I'm not sure.
Will splitting time in the summer be a problem for you? I can't see why you would only get three weeks with them. Seems to me that you deserve equal time and are only NOT getting it during the school year to keep the kids from being in too much upheaval.
I ache for your situation Frank. You know how lucky I was - I wish you could have some of that luck.
Blessings,
Bill
I don't know how I'll handle this. W has used me a couple of times for free baby sitting so she could spend all night partying with her best friend in a small town 30 minutes from here.
After I figured that out, a couple of times she "offered" me extra nights with them I turned it down because I thought she was just looking to go drinking with her townie buddies.
One time I was right and she just left them with her mom all night. Another time she just stayed home with them.
I was torn both times. I obviously am not to the point where I don't care what she's doing. Maybe that'll have come by the time we get to that part of the negotiations.
Kerry...to answer your question,
His attorney says we will have a battle because the courts favor moms even crappy ones over dads
it doesn't seem to matter that we can document all this stuff
Frank...keep in mind that you will still be working over the summer and will need to find a sitter...your wife could push for right of 1st refusal or say you shouldn't get that time because you would be at work where she will most likely not be working...
just tossing out the devil's advocacy point
Figgeroni...my L concurs with your view and she is urging me to not fight the 3 weeks.
In court again as I type. Her L changed a HUGE amount of stuff that was not in the 'agreed upon' stip as we left it last week.
To CityGirl: NY sucks with regards to divorce law. Prehistoric and barbaric is an understatement. I've had at least 15-20 court appearrances, 2 judges not including the two for the orders of protection and 2 1/4 years later. I intend to write my Congressman after this..
Ugh.
FIB
Hi Frank..
Are those wooden benches any more comfortable after the last visit? I will toss my seat cushion in solidarity.
Hope it goes well, though it looks like your divorcing spouse is grasping for the last straws before it's done/finito.
What's amazing is that your ordeal is probably not unique and the the laws are still in place. And it has me wondering.. if you both have to say you begged and were denied sex for 12 months to get divorced, do you have to say you pushed away all sexual advances for 12 months to get married?
*hugs*
PS.. I was kidding about the mole, knowing how folks will ask for advice during your downtime. In fact I had a 7mm inflamed cyst delivered whole quite to the surprise of the dermatologist lancing it. He gets bragging rights for the day.
As an aside, the former spouse once let a cyst go so long the surgeon had to treat it like a mastectomy. He told the spouse, "I always tell my patients their cyst was the biggest one ever. Guess what.. yours IS the biggest one ever. It's like the size of Texas!"
Hi Gypsy...thanks.
Well...I got a hello while sitting here. The father of a boy on our baseball team last year..was filed against. Married 17 years, his W is adopted. She found her biological family in upstate NY and filed for D. Poor guy. He told me about his W lying in affidavits and how he was now afraid that she would try and call the police.
FIB
Hey Frank..
I tell you.. Each lawyer I spoke to asked me, "Did your spouse ever threaten you, do you feel at risk?" It was almost a golden ring dangled where I knew I could get an unfair advantage making a complaint.
The funny thing is, several years before I had felt very threatened by him. Looking in his eyes and knowing that there was a distinct possibility that he might hit me. I remember saying, "If you ever hit me, I'm out the door." And it was very weird to feel that sensation, even though it was never acted on, except in his sleep when he'd whack me if I cuddled close. I mean, with oomph. Needless to say, I stayed on my side of the bed, alone.
Your friend should probably find out from his lawyer how to protect himself.
Looking back at it now, I made so many excuses, or accepted his (I'm sensitive to touch, I don't like to be touched.) Sheesh.
*hugs*
If Obama is ever impeached or dies from cigarretes, it is not very reassuring to know that Joe Biden, the crafter of the unconstitutional VAWA, will be in charge. Too many lawyers have dishonestly used that to gain an advantage in divorce proceedings against men.
GAG FIB! That is so ridiculous.
Impasse. STBXW wants a guarantee of 100K on sale of house. FIB
Do what your L suggests. Maybe you could agree with this in exchange for something you want. Business deal. But it is a business deal with vultures.
Impasse. STBXW wants a guarantee of 100K on sale of house. FIB
Be careful!!! In today's market that's a dangerous proposition. My ex offered me the house if I handed over $60K. A year and a half later when we finally sold it, we each netted about $5K.
Hey Frank..
Sheesh.. there are NO guarantees in today's market.
*hugs*
To all..this appears done.
I refused to cave on the 100K guarantee. If the house went down in price, my STBXW would have more money on the sale than I would and the house is in MY name. There was also a HELOC (marital asset) that they wanted to dump on me.
Ironically, my L was able to legally show that STBXW wasn't due ANY money from the house. HOWEVER, if it went to court, my L told me that her L had experts, 3 of them, that would testify against my income. She predicted easily a 3 week trial. Since I would be responsible for STBXW's court costs, you can do the math. A trial would wipe out any equity in the house.
What closed the negotiation:
- The judge 'suggested' that I accept a downgrade from 60/40 to 55/45 in exchange for the HELOC coming off the top of the sale of the house
- I get 4 weeks of vacation with kids over the summer vs. 3
The tough things:
- STBXW gets to stay in the house until closing but can leave earlier
- my CS is based on X income for 2 years but then will increase to Y income
STBXW was nasty (as usual), using such phrases as 'don't be a prick about x,y,z'.
Finally, next Thursday, in the wonderful state of NY, STBXW and I will stand up in a public court room and aver that "we begged for sex for 12 months and were refused". We will then be officially unofficially divorced until the final decree somes out.
This ? brings to an end? a 2 year ordeal of a man trying desperately to save his marriage, followed by a 2 1/4 year ordeal of being tortured with his kids and the police department.
FIB
I want to thank all of you for standing by me during this difficult 1-2 weeks.
I am at a loss as to what to say. I know I will be OK now and I am looking forward to the day when I can sit down with my kids without STBXW looking over me. However, now, I must find a way to adapt to a life without my kids during the week.
I will now mourn that, but, as you all know, I will move on, somehow. I always told STBXW before all this happened that I would never let my family down. Well, I won't minus a wife. Well, NY will require me to pay her.
I actually like STBXW's attorney, in spite of all the motions, etc. I know it is a business. I walked up to him after and shook his hand, asked him if I could talk man to man. I asked him if he would, in a private way, have a talk with STBXW and try and get her to 'back down' (not said in those words). Then, smiling, I said to him, "oh, and btw, I am not x,y and z", phrasing some of the nasty stuff that STBXW quoted. He smiled. I think he knew.
X's attorney then went on to say how he thought that the previous female judge hurt us by ordering that no one sleep with the kids. He said, by doing that, not knowing that a precedent had be set before things went sour, she created this horrible 'air'. He shook my hand again and hoped that "I made a million dollars someday because your children will benefit greatly with you."
And finally, he agreed...which got me choked up..that they hadn't seen a father in court who was so committed to their children. I guess that's the lollipop I get to take home to assuage the pain of losing them half the time.
The system in the state of NY sucks. It is archaic. It is broken. It is the only state left that requires a couple to find fault to get divorced. That, honestly and without saying with bigotry, is secondary to the lobbying power of the diocese of NY. It needs to be changed.
All the motions...all the police calls...all the finger pointing...all the court visits.....MEANT NOTHING. As everyone says, it simply comes down to dollars and a custody agreement. My children are victims of my state's laws.
STBXW: "You know, even though you gave me the grandfather clock for giving birth to Paige, I didn't ask for it knowing that you would probably take it anyway."
Funny...I did ask for it, but, because I thought she would never take it since, on the front, is a small engraving saying, "The FIB Family, 2003." I will give it to my son in my will when that day comes.
So, after 4 years, I guess, I still can't understand the unhappiness that occurs in a person that is SO bad, that they will destroy their marriage, uproot and hurt their children, throw away their home. I simply accept that it happens now. Although I have felt the pain and sadness of divorce, I don't think anyone..ANYONE...has made me THAT unhappy (well, STBXW now I guess, lol).
"I love you but I want the romance back", translated: you are a great guy, a good man and a good father, but, the excitement is gone and I want to get that back. I want to trade up.
Period.
It rarely comes back. It's definitely worth the try of working it, but, after awhile............
FIB
You did good. Life will go forward, and upward!
Finally some closure! And it was good that you had some nice words with your XW's lawyer.
It is crazy that you both have to make that sort of testimony next week.
Not to bash the great state of NY too much, but I read that Albany is witholding state tax refunds. I also saw a list of things gone wrong in NY...
1) TAXES and then MORE TAXES
2) Albany corruption
3) Union thugs running the business into the ground
4) Social programs that DO NOTHING to help ANYONE but state employees administering them.
5) Roads from hell
6) Welfare culture that promotes sloth rather than a work ethic
7) ZERO private sector jobs being created
8) a lot of people who absolutely believe government is THE solution and big business is THE problem
9) political families who believe they have a divine right to rule NY State
10) cities that look like East Berlin in 1982
I think we can add family law to that list of things gone wrong in one of the original 13 colonies.
Actually, when I re-read that list, it kind of defines where I live too in the Portland Oregon area.
FIB -
I know you are so sad at the thought of not having your kids all the time. But it just is, an unchangeable fact of divorce.
I want you to start thinking about what GOOD things you can bring into your life in those days that you're not on dad duty.
My kids were older, but the divorce has still opened up big swaths of time in my life, especially since we sold the house and the boys ended up living with ex (I haven't swung a new house for myself yet). Surprisingly, that time is completely filled with rock band practice and drum lessons, socializing with new friends my ex never would have liked....in fact, I'm busier than ever, but in a good way. (Oh, and not to mention, visits to the ninja master...)
Pick up an instrument. I highly recommend the drums
Ellie
Hey Frank..
*hugs*
Good job. And that's a mighty fine pat on the back, your lollipop, on your commitment as a father.
It's an honor to lend support.
*hugs*
Frank--
I just thank God that this is over for you, and you got a lollipop to take home with you. because that will grow and expand in your soul--that even the "enemy" knew the truth about your being a wonderful father.
I remember the first time D14 left our home with her father after the split. I cried, I wailed, I thought I would die. I made my dogs howl, in fact. And for months and months, I pretty much languished while she was gone. It just seemed the only appropriate way to "be." But eventually I began to use the time to get some balance in my life, to nurture myself, to have some quiet time--which made me a better mom. It's horrible in the beginning, I won't lie to you, but one adjusts. and as I said in an earlier post, you can still talk to your kids daily, read stories over the phone, attend school events...it will be okay, Frank. It will be far better than it looks right now. I promise.
Eventually, it will just "be." It's like when a parent dies. They were there your whole life and now they are not. Eventually, it just becomes life.
And people have written this earlier -- it isn't over. I have a feeling there are twists in this story that will turn in your direction.
Eventually, it will just "be." It's like when a parent dies. They were there your whole life and now they are not. Eventually, it just becomes life.
And people have written this earlier -- it isn't over. I have a feeling there are twists in this story that will turn in your direction.
oh, yeah. this is far from "final."
because of karma, if for no other reason.
Frank,
I'm glad this part of the process is over for you.
I'm also irate at how the legal system so indiscriminantly awards custody and money to one spouse or the other.
It boggles the mind how on one hand the legal system refuses to assign blame in the demise of the marriage and then on the other hand willingly chooses which parent is the more fit one by awarding primary custody.
This is NOT justice.
A man and woman who divorce, assuming that both truly love their children and WANT time with them, should have equal time with their children. PERIOD. There is no legitimate reason for our court system to select one parent over the other when both are capable parents and when both want the time with the children.
It makes me want to scream from the rooftops that you get only 2 out of every 14 evenings with your two children. Meanshile the woman who CHOSE to become a serial adultress, who CHOSE to break the vows/promises she made, who CHOSE to turn this separation into an all out war - she not only suffers no consequences for those actions (God forbid our legal system render a judgement on the morality of screwing around when you're married), she is actually rewarded on the basis of her gender and deemed the parent who SHOULD receive both primary custody and financial support from you.
It's absolutely ridiculous.
For years and years I thought little of no fault divorce. Now that I've experienced it, I see much more clearly the many little insidious fingers that make it such a glaring black mark on our society as a whole.
Enough of my rant.
Frank, my greatest hope for you is a lengthy period of healing and peace. You have been through an emotional war for the past couple years, and there are many times that I can almost literally see the slow damage it is doing on you. Know that from here on out, things will begin to improve. Find your way, enjoy the days without the constant hatred and animosity being directed your way.
I'm glad the end is beginning.
Blessings,
Bill
You did better than I thought you would. Intersting what her atty said - but why not after all the $$ YOU indirectly paid him.
I hate to say it but the ending is just the beginning. The earthquake hit now brace for the aftershocks. The emotion of moving from your home, the nights without seeing your kids, yes even the BS of dating again.
Steel yourself Frank. Now more than ever. For me, even two years post-D the hurt is still vivid.
Strength and Honor.
Frank,
Thanks for being you.
poet
Frank,
I will say something that I have been thinking for a whiile: I dont see how anything you will face in the future could be any harder and nerve wrecking than the last years you spent under the same roof with that woman. And that goes for your kids as well.
Have faith that things will turn out fine in the end. For all of you.
xxx
K
I think we can add family law to that list of things gone wrong in one of the original 13 colonies.
Absolutely Kerry. I intend to write a letter to my local congressman. It's abdominable...what the divorce law does here. If STBXW and I each refused to accept contructive abandonment (no sex for 12 months), then, with cruel and inhuman treatment, we each would have to go on the stand and discuss EACH AND EVERY INCIDENT in front of the court.
FIB
I'm busier than ever, but in a good way. (Oh, and not to mention, visits to the ninja master...)
Pick up an instrument.
..and I"m sure you are practicing away on it. Gotta love a woman who loves a good instrument. LOL. Cheers kml. You sound so different and so much better than the early posts on my thread. 'Music' calms the savage beast. Play on kml.....gptta get me a ninja woman. LOL.
To gypsy...no more lollipop comments. I'm single soon. lol FIB
Hoosier..Jeff..poet...Kalni..CTH....thank you.
The last week I've had to 'rationalize this' into something I could comprehend to ease the difficulty. I thought of the new highway running through a small town with houses in the way. If you sat down, kicked and screamed and held onto the carpet, they're gonna drag you out of the there and the wrecking ball was coming thru no matter what.
This had to get done. I have so many friends here that have passed this stage. It's simply my turn.
My son called me at 8:30PM last night, asking me where I was and if I was coming home. When I arrived, he was awake, scared and STBXW...er...xW and D6 were asleep. F her. I told him to come downstairs and hang out on the couch with me while I unwinded and S9 feel asleep there. I carried him upstairs after.
Professional DWM, non-smoker, looking for ninja woman.
So...anyone have any good lines that won't get me thrown in prison when I am asked to stand up and say I begged her for 12 months for sex and didn't get any? LOL.
FIB
you could toss the word protected in there...
like
your honor, I begged her for 12 months for protected sex even though I knew she was giving away free unprotected sex on every street corner
Fig, that's good! btw, I thought she committed adultery? Couldn't you have sued for that cause?
Frank, I'm actually at a loss for words....sorry, happy, angry for you.
There will be a lot of adjustments as you go forward. Have you lined up some place to go, yet?
Oh, and I think I've come up with a new mantra for myself - I am ninja-woman - DON'T hear me roar, just pick up your head on the way out!
FIB,
I've been reading your thread since I came to this board a year or so ago. I have gleaned some good advice, and gained some good insight as a result of reading your posts. Thank you for that.
Sorry that you've had to go through the hell that you have. You've had it as rough as anybody I'm aware of...although it could always be worse. She could have gutted you and the kids from crotch to eyeball with a Ka-Bar!
You are stronger than you know, and I can relate to a lot of the feelings that you have.
Good things for you and your kids.
Sincerily,
antlers
FIB, Long time lurker, first time poster. You have been on my prayer list. Saw this and thought of you.
http://oldjewstellingjokes.com/post/441216453/sylvie-drake-my-wife-is-poisoning-me-sylvie#offset:0;0
Cheers
FIB,
I like what antlers said. Although, I've heard myself from a to-be-attorney -- I didn't hire him -- that some people like to rake them through the coals. Never could understand that phrase (or frame-of-thought). I guess I have a lot to learn.
Take care of yourself, and be good to your soul.
poet
p.s. I can't believe I'm putting this out there for all to see. Ugh! Your begging rang true here too. I never really begged, just got thrown off onto the floor a time or two. Thought it was part of being married. Never had a clue I was ever being disresptected. boo hoo. Poor me. (No, not feeling self-pity anymore, just throwing it in there for effect.)
Donna -
I think you missed the meaning of ninja-woman.
We were talking about my new boyfriend earlier, and how he has mad ninja skills in the bedroom. And FIB decided he needed to find him a woman with similar mad ninja skills.
Ellie
Yeah, verily!
Donna -
I think you missed the meaning of ninja-woman.
We were talking about my new boyfriend earlier, and how he has mad ninja skills in the bedroom. And FIB decided he needed to find him a woman with similar mad ninja skills.
Ellie
Wow.. "All Rise" takes on a whole new meaning!
Oh man, mad ninja skills in the bedroom. (((sigh...)))
I can't even imagine it's been so long......*sigh*
Its not that I haven't had wild monkey sex (LOL) w/ the fling, but I would really like a regular thing, not just once every three months.
Actually, although I do enjoy sex, I would like someone to snuggle with...stupid woman lol~!
Snuggling is fine..but..AFTER the mad ninja sex. ALL RISE indeed.
Trouble (you were expecting this to be over, right?).
STBXW's atty keeps changing the agreement and at my expense. Problem clauses:
1) 4 weeks parenting time in the summer is written as 4 weekends
2) STBXW's atty keeps jacking up his legal fees to be paid to him on sale of our house, was $20K ordered by judge, last week he added $5K; now he added another $5K (total $30K). My atty's fees are being manipulated by him indirectly
3) Clause saying that if any resources are found AFTER signing, STBXW gets 75% (trust me, there is nothing but toast left). L wants this removed. Says she never saw it in a divorce decree.
My L is staying tough. She is unhappy and won't budge at this point unless fixed. If we go to trial, it is OUR opinion that he doesn't care about whether STBXW gets anything...only his legal fees. Signing may be adjourned since I have surgery on Thursday and L now feels the battle is not over.
FIB
Among a few.
Antlers...thanks for coming back. I, too,lurk on some threads without posting. I appreciate the support.
LolaL...details..details....LOLOL.
FIB
kml...thanks for letting us see the 'dark side' of the force. LOL.
mishka...your day is, uh, coming.
To Coach...throughout my stay here, the most common lines I have read are:
-"check out Coach's thread"
-"click on this link and read what Coach wrote"
-"ask Coach for advice"
That says something. Although my M is over, I will always wonder if there was one other thing I could have done...one less mistake made...one less backslide done....whether the family would still be intact. However, I truly doubt that this woman, STBXW, would have still made it the distance.
FIB
fib
Although my M is over, I will always wonder if there was one other thing I could have done...one less mistake made...one less backslide done....whether the family would still be intact. However, I truly doubt that this woman, STBXW, would have still made it the distance.FIB
Man, did you just read
this lurker's mind!
mishka...your day is, uh, coming.
LOL! Good one FIB.
Although my M is over, I will always wonder if there was one other thing I could have done...one less mistake made...one less backslide done....whether the family would still be intact. However, I truly doubt that this woman, STBXW, would have still made it the distance.
FIB
I would encourage you not to wonder about things like this.
Keep moving forward.
Drew,
Although my M is over, I will always wonder if there was one other thing I could have done...one less mistake made...one less backslide done....whether the family would still be intact. However, I truly doubt that this woman, STBXW, would have still made it the distance.
FIB
I would encourage you not to wonder about things like this.
Keep moving forward.
You're right, of course.
Thanks.
To Coach...throughout my stay here, the most common lines I have read are:
-"check out Coach's thread"
-"click on this link and read what Coach wrote"
-"ask Coach for advice"
I have learned more here than I have given. I am grateful for the advice and counsel I receive here. Thanks for the compliment though, I found a voice that was stifled inside of me and now I can't shut it up.
That says something. Although my M is over, I will always wonder if there was one other thing I could have done...one less mistake made...one less backslide done....whether the family would still be intact. However, I truly doubt that this woman, STBXW, would have still made it the distance.
Wasted energy trying to relive the past. Make sure your DB education goes to good use in the present. I know that I would have not reconciled without my wife being the woman she is. So even though it takes one to tango it takes two to have a marraige.
Strength and Honor.
Wasted energy trying to relive the past. Make sure your DB education goes to good use in the present. I know that I would have not reconciled without my wife being the woman she is. So even though it takes one to tango it takes two to have a marraige.
ohhhhhhhhh, well put! Every word of it.
You know, the good news is, the skills learned here will put all of us in good stead in future relationships - with our mad-ninja lovers
...mad-ninja lovers
Why does everyone keep
calling me, lately?!
Coach...once again, great advice.
Key...KEY: THERE ARE TWO PEOPLE HERE. OUR SPOUSE'S CAN CHOOSE TO HAVE A MARRIAGE.
Man...think of how hard and how long we were all at this trying to save this. Even the backslides in the past told them what we wanted. It wasn't in them.
Totally agree Coach. Totally. You are a fortunate man to be able to have a person want to stay in a committed marriage. It IS a choice.
What my view on this is now: if...if...I were a millionaire, my STBXW would be feigning happiness and 'banging away' on the outside as the years went on.
Well, LOLOL, JMO.
I'm OK, right now, and just need to get this done. We have reached our rope with this stipulation and they had better get it done. I've caved on a lot of financial stuff. STBXW should cave on stupid legal lingo. As my atty wrote to her atty yesterday, keeping a 75% 'finders keepers' clause "only leads to further acrimony and future legal action." I love my L.
Now...ninja sex...where were we........
FIB
You know, the good news is, the skills learned here will put all of us in good stead in future relationships - with our mad-ninja lovers smile
Care to share with us what skills you were lacking that you now acquired? LOLOL. FIB
Recent comments from our 9 year old:
-"Dad, maybe D6 can live with mom and I can live with you."
-"Dad, you always come in and talk with me and cuddle me at night. Mom only kisses me and leaves."
-"You're definitely the more fun."
I don't post this as a 'ha ha', etc. Only to show that my son see's that I love him and I can see that he loves me.
I know that our relationship, at least right now, will endure (heaven knows what teenagerhood will bring). He will have a tough time of this at first. I pray that his adjustment will not cause him too much pain.
FIB
FIB,
That is so beautiful that your son has an open, loving R with you. It's something to treasure.
Now teenagerhood......that's another subject! I have a 15 year old. Granted, he's special needs but he is intelligent in the extreme and has been expanding his social skills at a rapid pace since entering high school. The best advice I can give you is to stay completely involved in your kid's lives. Make your home the place that all of their friends want to come to hang out. Make it warm, inviting, strict but not stifling, and fun. That way you stay connected to their friends and know what is going on the majority of the time.
I never wondered why my parents always volunteered to drive the car pool with my friends. Now I know it's because we talked openly and freely in front of them while in the same car as if they weren't even there. It was the closest to being a fly on the wall as they could get and they LOVED it. In high school when so many people I knew were avoiding their parents and getting into trouble, my friends and I were actually wanting to hang out with our parents. We knew where the money was...don't get me wrong we had our ulterior motives, but we always had fun with them because they made it so.
Do that for your kids. Show them how adults should act to counteract the childish, cold behavior of your xw.
You will be a great success! I just know it!
The horror continues:
STBXW wants to stay in the house until it is sold/closing. She also wants me to pay child support while she lives in the house, i.e., I am paying all the bills.
Both L's met last this week (STBXW and I were adjourned since I had surgery). The judge was fed up and scheduled trial for July 15th.
OMG...I really can't take this anymore. STBXW's L is also threatening to file a motion for me to pay MORE LEGAL FEES for STBXW. If I commit to signing this while I still have to carry the house, I will be agreeing to be a deadbeat dad. I won't be able to make those payments while carrying the house.
Men/dads....get f'd here.
FIB
Men/dads....get f'd here.
They don't just get f'd there...they get f'd in Oklahoma too!
These WAS's have such a sense of entitlement, and are unbelievably selfish, and often downright mean!
Frank, I am at a loss for words....I am so, so sorry. Hope that at least your surgery wasn't too bad and you are physically healing well.
Are you going to still share the house until the new trial date?
If it does go to trial, I certainly hope that you get to have your say, at this point.
Not sure why she would do this. If it goes to trial, she loses any share on the house.
FIB
Man FIB, I feel for you, and I am in the same boat in MA..
Men/dads....get f'd here.
It really and truly does feel this way, and I wish it was not. I have tried with all my strength to think about the effort and money that is being spent as providing a home for my d9, rather than a free home for stbxw. That has taken an extreme amount of strength, and determination to stay in front of, as to not turn it into resentment and anger.
I hope you can do the same in the face of this utter crap..
Not sure why she would do this.
Who knows, and most likely you'll never know. I stopped trying to figure out what stbxw was doing. It's just a waste of your time and energy at this point trying to figure out 'why'
Put it this way, her mind and thought processes are so different than yours right now, you
can't think enough like her to understand what her motives are, so best to not think at all about it.
Frank,
I'm so sorry that you are having to face further hell in your sitch. What your STBXW is doing is disgusting. Why is she doing this? Complete stupidity! She walked, she wants out, she wants everything. So it goes to trial.....I hope to God she won't get a quarter of what she is demanding.
The judge was fed up and scheduled trial for July 15th.FIB
This is total Bullshit!
The whole New York family legal system needs to be on trial. The continued delays and rescheduling is a travesty and a total breakdown of the system.
Frank, I cannot believe the crap you are having to endure. You have my full sympathy and I hope there is indeed something good that will come your way in the near future.
Hi Frank...
Hope you're recovering well from surgery!
The wife's 'wants' are screwing everyone else's needs.
Have you written that letter to your Congressman, Senator? This is above and beyond anything to go on for so many years, based on the capriciousness of one individual.
The former spouse blames me for his financially strapped situation, even though he was the one who opted for an exorbitantly lawyer whose fees drained all our resources. Maybe I would have gotten a better deal if I'd insisted he'd have the kids with him for the minimal time.
What the hell does your lawyer think.. or propose to do?
*hugs*
... feel for you.
FIB,
I cannot believe that one person can so deliberately terrorize the life of another. Honestly, I think if I were in your shoes, this experience would put me on a crusade for legislative changes in your state.
Surely your lawyer can do something about all this. I know you love her and say she's done an admirable job, but it seems to me that you've been screwed over time and time again. If your lawyer is unable to move this process forward, surely she knows of some bigger firepower that could.
I do not get how you can be given a date of July when this thing has already dragged on for so long. What in the hell is wrong with the judge in this case? Does he honestly believe this is a situation that your two children need to be living through every day? For crying out loud...
You all just had a date to finalize things. It could have been settled then, but her lawyer again succeeds in prolonging the misery and padding his wallet. Perhaps a threat of a report of inappropriate behavior to the New York bar association?? Anything to get this done.
Just know that this is a war of attrition they are waging against you. Do not allow their tactics to cause you and your lawyer to yield to their demands. Frankly, at this point, I'd tell them that ALL negotiations are off and we will see you in court.
I'm so incredibly sorry for you and for your two children. If there really is karma and fate in this world, your STBX better be looking over her shoulder for a long time.
Stay strong.
Bill
And Frank, I wouldn't sign a damned thing until presented official papers from the court.
At this point I would tell my lawyer to go full guns a'blazing and get everything she can get, no matter how she has to do it.
This nonsense needs to end.
I am sorry Frank. I dont get it.
Stay strong
K
Frank..
she won't end it
you need to
I agree with BWORL
nice is gone and survival not only for yourself but for your children needs to happen
end her
Hey Frank..
While searching to see how long the typical NY divorce takes, I found the following.
Suffolk County judges have 500 cases, versus the average of 350.
The judges tend to keep the first impressions they make because of the heavy case load.
Child custody issues have priority.
Adultery is a cause for divorce.
Even uncontested divorces can take 3 years, with the wife's lawyer saying the delays help the wife get a better settlement.
If there's a disparity in income the higher earner can be responsible for the other spouse's fees even if it means paying it from future earnings.
I found these through newspaper articles, NY divorce forums, info on law firm websites, etc.
Your lawyer should know the statistics, what is the norm, what strategies adversaries take and how to counter them. Or how to outmaneuver their opponents. They know it the way you know the most likely outcome for patients you deal with.
And what about all those lawyers who are pro fathers' rights?
I know during my divorce, I consulted with other lawyers about the proposed settlement and got their recommendations and learned a few things that helped me.
The question is.. do you need an advocate or someone who's doing their job?
*hugs*
Frank,
I'm sorry for this travesty of Justice that you are suffering.
I joined a national shared parenting advocacy group after my ordeal:
American Coalition for Fathers and Children I also joined a local group.
Blessings.
Thanks all. L has refused to let me sign. Whereas I was going to walk away with all the debt, back taxes, etc, she is now going to bring this up as shared debt by domestic divorce relations law as marital asset. STBXW want's to walk away with $100K on the sale of the house, live in it until it sells and have me pay $500 per week while I pay for the mortgage, gas, electric, insurance, health, etc....Her atty is going to hit me up for more of his fees while my L is getting nothing so far. If he asks for more, she plans to file sanctions against him. The judge had already told him 'NO MORE motions.'
She's on the case.
It is torture. Truly is. She want's to bankrupt me and want's no financial responsibility.
As you can all see, it is nearly impossible to move on...get a good nights sleep...relax with my children....etc.
I think they used the wrong word when they said 'war is hell'.
FIB
Maybe it's your STBX the judge is disgusted with-- I sure hope so. The fact he actually told her L no more motions might be a good sign.
I agree with the other posters-- no more mr. nice guy. You offered her a good deal but she wouldn't take it, now she'll probably end up with much less. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
It could work both ways. This is a lose lose situation. The LG is clearly on my STBXW's side. Not sure how that happened in spite of everything I wrote.
The judge is clearly a mommy judge. We are/were close to settlement. He may/could see me as the sandbagger and come down hard on me. Remember...I am at disadvantage here...I am a physician. Stereotypes abound.
If I sign right now, I have to pay CS while my STBXW lives in the house and I pay all the bills until the house sells. That could be months (years?). By signing in my current state, I will commit myself to be a deadbeat dad, meaning, there is no way that I can pay the mortgage, run my business and pay her CS while we both live under the same roof.
It's a quagmire. Although I may come off here as being 'good', and STBXW as 'evil', the court system doesn't live in my house. Men are bad. They fight for CS to avoid paying it. They don't care if they see the kids. Many abandon their W's, etc. Add on being an MD...well, you can figure out how they probably have stereotyped me. We have been fighting this from the get go.
FIB
I add this anecdote just to show how things outside of this D still sting.
I had a minor case come up today, and, in the OR, the nurses were kidding around. I guess they haven't heard my history yet. The word 'service' came up and the nurses began joke around about "servicing"...if you know what I mean. I usually try to stay low key as I never wanted to ever have a reputation of being 'out there'.
A married nurse then said out loud, catching me VERY offguard in the OR, "that's why you are so attractive Dr. FIB, because you are a dedicated married family man."
I can't begin to tell you how badly I felt...after hearing that. Loss. Failure. It was just not the time to say anything except to focus on the case at hand.
I guess....I guess.....she gets partial credit.
(sigh) I just wish this was over.
FIB
Hey Frank..
You are a very dedicated family man and professional. You're the Dad, you're the Doc. Not wanting to be 'out there' is probably consistent whether you're married or not. You sound like a man with personal standards. Even though I've heard that those in the medical field can be pretty bawdy.
Then again, I don't really know how guys think all that well since hearing that every 7 seconds the "sex" pops into their consciousness. Probably more often with ninja skills added to it!
It's a shame that the love of your children isn't as highly regarded by the court, and that potential earnings outweigh your compassion and skill as a surgeon.
You're the man. Keep your head up! And you're wonderful.
*hugs*
I really can feel your pain. I was trapped in this joke of a system for 24 months and things still aren't done.
I have never witnessed more BS in my life.
My H's attny was a real snake and each time we got close to *something* he (he = snake attny, let's call him Robert) would request a judge change. After THREE requests and three consents on our part the judge finally got really ticked off and said no more. This all took place in March of 2008 and our next hearing was set in NOVEMBER of 2008.
I won't even go into details of what happened between March of 2008 and November but it was not good. Things were supposed to be finalized, ROBERT <--- snake, pulled my H out at the last minute (and when I say last minute I mean 7 min. before the final agreement was to be signed) and told the judge there were "problems" and the clock started again.
Mind you, we have NO children so custody was not even an issue in our case although an affair on my H's part was.
You can write to every person that has power in this state and it won't do a darn bit of good. I am 35 and it has been in legislation since before I was born to adjust the divorce laws in this state. The problem? No politician wants to be the one to make divorce "easier".
I will NEVER get married in this state again. Ever. Period.
The legal stress I was under contributed to an actual nervous breakdown, I was hospitalized, my lupus became very active and I was diagnosed with a situatonal panic disorder. My H took our car w/o any legal agreement in place leaving me sick and stranded with ALL the bills and while all this legal BS played out, he pranced around with OW.
In the family court division we were in we went through four judges, 16 adjournments, countless motions and 18 file folders of BS.
Stay strong. It is hard. It is awful. It is the system, NOT YOU!
(((hugs from a fellow disgruntled NY'er!)
Oh wow! So is this why my parents took 3 years to finalize their D? Their savings (and our college funds) were depleted.
The was NY state in the 1980's.
I still remember the nasty lawyer who made us wait forever. He was eating lunch. As a child, my sister and I were playing the stairwell and there he was carrying back his lunch. Mind you we already had been waiting an hour.
So we sit with him and he asks very casually. "So who do you want to live with?" That shocked and devastated me. I had to chose b/t my mom or dad and it would go on court record. I did not want to hurt anyone. I mean it really put me in a horrible spot. You would think they would have a counselor ask me that, not some, could care less lawyer.
my father fought his lawyer bill. I think he went to the bar or something. He won his battle and had to pay a lowered amount. Still was in the thousands. Still was a small fortune.
Sorry you are going through this....
Well thank G-d you reconciled june. The law guardian thing here in the stay of NY is a joke as well. They have no jurisdiction in the courtroom as to a recommendation for custody. They are supposed to be impartial (LG is totally on my STBXW's side). They have no special child counseling skills as I understand it.
The system is totally broken. NY requires someone to be at fault, i.e., you have to point a finger at someone. Like you June, at least a dozen or more court appearances, 3 or 4 adjournments, 2 orders of protection, one with a hearing......
Ugh.
FIB
Yes, so sorry. It went on for years. My mother was desperate to settle and even in the end paid my father money (she shouldn't have).
He then took us on a big shopping spree with the money and made himself look like a big hero. Did not learn till reading the D degree that that is where he had got all of his money. Short lived - he was on welfare shortly after.
It shattered our family- restraining orders, fights over the house, parents telling us adult info, my father telling us what a horrible mother she was- on and on.
IDK, the whole mess was too much- my dad attempted suicide twice, my sister was in a mental hospital for 2 years after it all in her teen years and dropped out of high school. My mother suddenly GALed like a crazy woman and worked full time, went to school full time and joined organizations and dated. We were at best roommates from my age of 13 upward.
If only they had chosen to work on themselves. To really try for the children's sake.
And that is what worked for my hubby and I- we BOTH really loved are children and wanted what was best for them. It would have been nice if he decided not to S but I think he just had no other idea of what to do.
Honestly, people are really selfish, IMO. I am glad you fought the hard fight.
Your children will know this abut you some day- it will make a difference to them. I swear to you- they will look on you as a parent that loved them so much that he lived in hell and stayed in hell all for their benefit.
That you in essence made you life about them and their happiness and well being.
You did it all the right way. You could have taken the easy route but you didn't I am proud of you.
You are at the last mile. The finish line is there - you can see it. Keep going!
Sending you vibes of strength and peace.
This is all very disappointing. As others have said, you are close to the finish line though. Keep walking,
Hugs
K
June..thank you for your kind comments. I think, sometimes, I will be bitter about people like you who WERE able to save their marriages (you know what I mean when I say that, I am actually happy for you). Bitter in the sense that STBXW couldn't/wouldn't/didn't.
That was then June. The woman I am with now I could never live with again. It's an amazing thing to look at what 12-16 months can do to a person. 2 years ago STBXW expressed sadness about me NOT coming to Easter. Now, she would back over me with her car if she couldn't get caught.
On the bright side, finally, this may REALLY be over.
Their issues:
- STBXW wanted CS to start on signing WHILE she still lived in the house. She wanted a 'nest egg' to start. L argued that CS is NOT for a nest egg, it is for the children
- Her L threatened to file another motion for more court costs
Our issues:
- STBXW would walk away without any debt and heap all of it onto me. L threatened to bring all my debt into play now including backtaxes as marital debt (a heavy hit to her)
- Paying full CS while STBXW lived in the house was ridiculous and would force me into being a deadbeat dad by inability to pay
- STBXW, would walk away from this with 45% of house yet her L continues to heap on court fees to me while STBXW could pay him from that
STBXW's L called today and wants to settle. I gave L permission for the following:
- Her L agreed to eat court costs if I added $2500 to my previously court ordered judgment (the contempt thingey)
- STBXW would get half the CS weekly until she moves out, supposedly in May
- maintenance is still waived
So..there you go. Will it fly this time? Only you all can guess. I think STBXW has another man cooking out there hence a new urgency to settle. Late nights, tight jeans, knee high boots, teeth whitening strips, etc. That's OK. His problem.
FIB
God, FIB, I really do hope so....
Fingers crossed!
I pity any unsuspecting man that does not yet know your XW's true nature.
FIB,
I pray to God above that this settlement actually takes place. At the same time, I truly wish that the fates would smile on all LBS's and you would suddenly be given a new judge who found adultery repugnant and had no trouble seeing through the thinly veiled manipulations of your stbx and her lawyer. Lord what I would not give to see them get a serious tongue lashing and all their requests rejected.
Now then my friend...
I try not to wish ill will on anyone so do not misunderstand what I'm about to say.
This woman is going to have an incredibly painful time at some point down the line. I know you were not perfect - none of us are. I also know that you have become a role model for many in how to handle tremendous adversity with grace and dignity. You have shown all of us how to care more about others than yourself. And you have definitely given each of us a great snapshot of how to be a loving, caring, and protective father.
Your stbx is not a stupid woman. She is mean, spiteful and vindictive, but she is not stupid. At some point, after the raw-ness of these proceedings have passed, after both of you have had some time apart, after she no longer feels the need to keep her claws bared 24/7...she is going to begin realizing what she has walked away from.
Think of the men she has aligned herself with as your situation unfolded. None of them anywhere close to being men of character. All of them manipulators and predators. No matter how tough a state she has been in, no one wants to live like that forever.
Eventually she will remember the home you had together. She will remember the trips you took together. She will remember the pride that came with having a husband who was a surgeon, who healed people. She will remember the man, flaws and all, who fought for his marriage until he couldn't take rejection and betrayal any longer.
And damn it Frank, she is going to hurt.
It is my prayer that she has that moment, and that she has it sooner rather than later.
(and before you get ready to clobber me) NOT because I think she's going to want you back...NO. But because I think once that moment comes, maybe then she will at least find the ability to live in peace with you. Maybe you will find her more accomodating with the kids and other things.
It's time for your ordeal to end. I pray this recent negotiation is legitimate.
Blessings,
Bill
Thank you for your kindness Bill. There is a wonderful new beginning ahead of me. I just need to mourn the loss of time with my children and learn to adapt to a new style of living. I have a lot of financial rebuilding to do, but, I will get there.
I apologize to all here for saying the following. I will not mourn the loss of my wife. I repeat the line from the movie Gladiator, "she's done her work well." Unlike many here, I will not walk around missing her
I will miss my kids.
I will not miss us as a group.
I will miss the institution of being a family.
I will not miss our marriage.
I will miss the structure of being married.
This morning, before going to work, I went through some old photos. The woman in the pictures looks, well, younger (I don't say that from that 'male' point of view, but, meaning from the Abraham Lincoln point of view: wasted from a four year Civil War of carnage, anger and destruction.)
There were photos of STBXW holding our son over pumpkins as a toddler, a photo of she and I dressed in Halloween masks before taking the kids Trick or Treating, pix of the kids naked and holding each other.
It's OK. It's history. Disposable for one person. It's the bane of the LBS'er here, the complete inability to understand how someone can change so much, develop disdain enough: to throw everything away.
Sometimes, I believe and have told others here, that, like the end of a book, it is better to just close it and move on to the next story without trying to overanalyze and appreciate the story it told.
FIB
Your Input
Last week, STBXW texted me that she met with the family counselor who told her it was time to talk with the kids about the impending separation. I told her that I would prefer to meet with the counselor first. I met yesterday with her and with the kids. For the first time in awhile, I sorta liked the session.
FC: "FIB, you'll meet someone again."
She suggested that I take the kids to How To Train a Dragon. Which I did afterward. Had a nice evening with the kids.
Then, today's texts:
STBXW: Since you got to speak with Dr. X yesterday its time 2 talk 2 the kids about the move and living arrangements. They are confused
Me: Dr. X will see u next week then I believe she is going to break with us until we split
STBXW: That didn't answer my question (I know it didn't)
Me: Feel free to talk with them
STBXW: She said its best 2 do it together. Why do you have a problem with that?
Huh????
Huh????
How do you expose your inner feelings in front of your children with a person who called the police on you twice? Pushed to have you arrested for contempt of court?
No. I choose to talk with our children in peace...by myself. Does anyone here see fault in that?
Thoughts?
Thanks.
FIB
If there were peace and cooperation between the two of you, maybe.
In your case?
Pardon my language Frank, but there is no way in hell I would have any conversation with the kids in her presence. Especially about such a life-changing topic.
Yes, let her have her talk.
Then you can have yours when the time is right for you.
I can't even imagine what a clusterf*%# it would be to try to explain this to your children together.
I like the tone in your posts recently. You sound fortified.
Blessings,
Bill
Not me. I'm sure she wants you to do it together because it would create the illusion the decision to divorce was mutual.
You shouldn't have to do it your way if you don't have to, IMO. The reason the kids are so confused is because she's still living in the house.
FIB,
I get what you mean and I am sorry for the h@ll that you have been through. I think bitterness is a normal feeling. How could a person not feel that. There was no A in our marriage so things were a million times easier to repair. There still is that feeling for waiting the other shoe to drop though. I hope it fades with time.
I have not been reading your sitch long enough to gain enough insight on things. But I do wonder about something. I wonder about your wife, if behind all that anger is incredible guilt on her end. I wonder if she finds it easier to find the faults and shortcomings of others than to look inward at herself. I mean playing the victim is the easier than to own up to your own sh@t, right? I have a feeling ever after the D she will still try to find way to blame YOU for anything that goes wrong in her life.... *sigh*
Anyhow, it is a selfish person who pretends that this doesn't affect the children detrimentally.
Who knows, maybe she has some diagnosable personality disorder like NPD or Borderline. I mean with out a doubt something is off.
Anyhow, I am glad to see you are persevering. I agree with everyone else. Considering the contentious nature of everything, that speaking to the children separate seems best, IMO. She can't call the shots anymore. She can't demand you speak to them together. And of course if you disagree with her. She will see you as being antagonistic. No win situation, always.
You can never reason with the unreasonable, that is for sure. I like to remind myself of that.
Best
June
My W and I had a dinner with the kids to let them know that we were separated. However, I had already had a talk beforehand with the kids and it was very tough because my son broke down.
I dont think it wise for you and your witch to have the discussion together. I can see there being too much animosity for it to be beneficial for the kids. You are much better in speaking to your children about a delicate situtions without having the ears of a batchitt crazy angry slut listening in.
Thank you all...Kerry...Bill...June..Andabelle.
My IC, after all this time, felt she was either Bipolar II or BPD. STBXW denies this in all her legal documents. Water under the bridge.
My daugther is tough and I think she will handle this. My son, OTOH, I think is really going to have a rough time of this. As Bill knows for a long time now that I have a close R with him. We talk at night before bedtime. We have catches. I put my arm around him when we walk and we buddy it up. I know, that he is going to have trouble adapting in the beginning.
Funny thing. I don't hate STBXW. In spite of all the horrible stuff, I would still even prefer to work together. It's just not going to happen. Even yesterday, she changed a dental appt on me that I was going to go to and she didn't tell me. I ended up at the dentist's office, for the third time now, alone. Fortunately, I know the dentist and he fills me in.
It's a sad state of affairs when two people cannot function for the sake of two innocent children. You build a house together. You become intimate and create two lives together. You open door for them to find the life and happiness that they seek. Yet, they still feel the need to punish you.
FIB
Well in your case I'd say that 1 person is functioning and unfortunately it is the other one who is completely dysfunctional.
Hey Frank..
The absolutely worst time in my life was telling the kids. Mine happened about two weeks after the bomb.
From my experience, make a plan.
Write out what your belief is.
Anticipate any and all questions the children will have, especially about birthdays, vacations, where they live.
Work with the counselor together, so you two go in as a united front. This is all about the kids, helping them during a very traumatic time, reassuring them it's not their fault, that you aren't going anywhere, that you will always love them.
Let her take ownership. Don't come to her rescue.
And, if you're both together, you know what's said. And this is a brand new beginning of a very different sort. Very very tough.
Your kids are young enough that they deserve to have both parents reassuring them as a united front.
*******
A story I heard once..
A recently divorced father took his two distraught children out to the backyard. "Gather all the twigs you can find and bring them here." The kids scampered around depositing some and running to find more as the father built a tight bundle of the twigs.
As the kids rested the father stood before them and started twisting at the bundle. "This is like the love your mother and I had for each other." With much effort bits of wood started to break off as the father talked, the children watching. They saw how hard he had to work as the bundle slowly broke apart.
The father then asked the kids to find sticks, which they did, following the same pattern as before. The father wove the sticks into a tight bundle and started trying to twist and break it as before. No matter how hard he worked, the bundle stayed secure, whole. The father looked to his children and said, "This is the love I have for you."
*hugs*
Just adding my current experience for you. Divorce has been final two weeks. Spent two years in divorce proceedings with most of that time trying to protect my 7yr old from knowing what was going on, while hoping WAH would come to senses. Had to tell son when it became obvious my XH would file contempt of court charges against me just to prove his point.
I tried over the course of the two years to educate my XH on what would emotionally take place in our child from our divorce, to no avail. Our child is a very sensitive and anxious child by nature, and it broke my heart knowing what this loss would do to him. XH insisted child would not be perfect, but would be just fine and that I was wrong on what child would suffer.
Now, I am at least justified in my opinion. I found play
therapist for my son, and XH agreed to come for parent meeting. Therapist explained to us that our child would have to be dealt with very delicately due to his nature, and that stability would be utmost important. She let us know that he appears to be a anxious child that would need much encouragement and patience in order to adjust.
XH wanted to hang out with us after the meeting. At that time, he told me I had been right. Took two years to get to that place of understanding. Maybe it took the divorce to get to this place. But whatever the reason, I am glad he is hearing from someone else the effects of the divorce on our son.
Two days later: XH over to our home to keep son while I go out to dinner with friends. Son sees his parents getting along, and says to his dad,"You and Mommy aren't fighting. You can move back home." Of course my heart stopped. XH smiles and says to son, "You are so cute". and son replies, "I am not kidding, Dad, you can move back home now." I just stood with my mouth hanging open, and Dad continued to smile and say nothing. What could we say??? This precious child sees it so simply. And you know, it really is simple. Adults should just do what is best for the little ones, and work it out. But that would mean parents are mature adults.
I just want to express my hope and understanding of your situation. You can be proud that you are willing to do what is best for your children.
My $.02 FWIW...
I'm on the other side FIB, I think you should sit down with the shrew when you are going to discuss this with the kids.
I believe this will show them in the long run that people can and should act with dignity in difficult times.
What she does she will own more than she can know. It is important for you set the good example because she's setting the bad one.
I know the difficulty with co parenting but.......
Just my thoughts my friend.
cire
Is there any way to have the therapist sit with you while you both tell the kids? No way (TG)STBXW would pull something stupid with an onlooker. (TG= Thank God) The therapist would be able to guide you all through it and work with you guys to help answer questions and stuff. That's what I would do.
If that's not possible, there's no way on earth I'd let her do it separately. The lady has lost her marbles, and I'm pretty sure she's not going to find them any time soon.
Actually, I think she's so angry because she knows she screwed up big time, knows she's to vain to admit it, and knows she dug herself in too deep. Narcissistic. It's like through acting out against you, she's avoiding dealing with the wretched things she's done.
I know this seems difficult for you regarding your relationship with your children, but my mom was batchitcrazy for most of my life, and I always knew my dad was the hero, though certainly flawed. He put up with a lot from her, and I always wondered why he didn't call BS and divorce her butt or at least stand up for himself.
Your kids will love you no matter what crazy stuff your W pulls. In the short term there might be fall out, but if you are consistent and loving, in the long term it will all work out. In those crazy moments, you have to see past the moment and keep breathing until it's passed.
Still following...
SD
I would not let that harpy fill my children's heads with her twisted version of the truth
I would want to be there if only to hear what she was saying
you don't need to start correcting everything right there but I would make sure to correct it later when you have the kids alone
like:
mommy said we both wanted to sleep with other people but I want you to know that mommy is the only slut here...
ok, maybe not like that
but
I think it is invaluable for you to know exactly what she is saying to your children
you don't have to tell the brutal, no holds barred truth...nor should you (they are just little tots)
but
you should be able to addess any nuttiness she splatters on them
I have to think about this. I really....have no desire to sit with her and talk with them with her. Truly. Can I? Yes. Do I want to? No. I'm not sure how many here have had to face 3 squad cars in front of their house while having a catch with their son...or...walking their daughter up the driveway with a squad car in front of the house because you brought you son to a playdate (according to her, I 'secreted' him away)...or had documents filed to have you 'removed from the house under police escort'....or to be thrown in jail to 'purge himself' for contempt of court.
After 4 years of this and amazing things said about me re: courage, etc....heck....I don't think I want to do it. I've read some amazing feats of courage here...some amazing comments that men and women have said at the signing of their documents. I've seen many eat a lot of horse hockey in the attempt to save their family.
Honestly....I don't think STBXW deserves the exposure of my personal feelings in front of our children anymore.
I know this may sound ULTRA anti-DB, etc, but, she has shown nothing to me to show she has ANY desire to move forward in an amicable fashion. My laundry was thrown on the floor again this week. Trust me: we have no interaction outside of texting.
I'm sorry if I disappoint anyone here.
FIB
Fib -
I'm with the camp that says be there, so you can counter any dis-information from the ex.
OR - tell them yourself first.
But your presence ensures that if she starts telling them some BS about it being your fault, you can cut her short.
I believe that kids will eventually know the truth either way. Sometimes I think we give them less credit than they deserve.
I still say have them there...
And
yes
i have faced squad cars
i have had nasty untrue things said about me
i have had slanderous comments made
i have had death threats posed to me
all by Cori's ex
I still say be there
it isn't for her benefit
it is for your children's
it is to counter
outloud and in front of her
information that is not correct
you don't need to say you fought against a divorce
they know that
you do need to let them know that you love them and if their mom says bullshit you need to be there to counter it
I loved the radio thing. Bob and his kind deserve an ass kicking. I wonder if Donny forwarded the radio show mp3 to Rose (Bob's wife).
You know, the thing with sitting the kids down would be just fine if you both are on a common front. If she does bring up bullshit to try an paint you as bad and her as a princess, I dont see any good coming from it. You will counter her bullshit and then she will counter you, blah blah blah - in front of the kids who then are left confused and probably in tears from more continued fighting by their parents. And even if you can get through it, there will be times she can speak her bullshit later in private to the kids.
I just dont see any good from you both trying to speak to the kids together about the divorce based upon previous history I have read about your evil witch slut. She hates you too much to be civil even for the kids benefit.
I think your son already knows who has taken the moral path just as mine does. It may take our daughters getting into their teens to realize the karma that has come upon by their mothers poor decisions. Or you and I may find a new lady in our lives who has a good influence on our daughters as to what an honest and respectful woman should be. I got my son and daughter involved in the scouts partly with that in mind - to learn and gain strength and honor.
Agreed. FIB
PS...I hope Donny kicks his butt in. LOL.
Well said Kerry.
FIB, I agree with all that Kerry said.
There is nothing in the history of the last two years that suggests the two of you can have a discussion with anyone, let alone your children, without a disagreement or conflict.
Quite frankly, your kids don't need anymore drama in their lives. I would think by now that it's fairly clear to them that Mommy and Daddy are no longer close. Living apart from YOU will be the hard part for them. Your wife is certainly not going to make them feel any better about that part - only you and your loving compassion towards them will make the fears subside.
Just food for thought Frank. I know you will make a thoughtful and proper decision.
Blessings,
Bill
Hey Frank..
This seems to be a gender split decision. Moms are more likely to opt to be there, Dads are more likely to suggest to do it alone.
It reminds me of the difference between moms and dads changing those incredible all body poops that newborns have. The mom will eek at the muck going up the baby's back, clean the baby, and rinse the offending muck off the outfit and prepare it to be sanitized and cleaned. Dads will howl at the mess, clean the baby up and throw the outfit in the garbage along with the diaper.
Telling the kids is messy.. very messy.. full of intense emotions. The amount of trepidation a parent might feel is nothing compared to the shock, hurt and devastation the children will experience.
You're a surgeon. Do you operate without an anesthesiologist, safe environment, sterilized tools?
In a case as distorted as yours.. talk to the therapist about your real concerns, about what IS the best way to approach this considering the history of histrionics by the mother. Doing it with the help of a professional might be the only way the two of you can work it out.... to choose what works best for all.
You've lived through hell, and it still will be hell. And Bill is right, the toughest impact will be the kids not having you daily in their lives.
*hugs*
Gyps, good points. I would hope that the kids' therapist could be involved - your stbx is apt to be on better behavior...
well said Gypsy
also Frank
you can CHOSE not to be led into her drama
let her rage while you are detached and calm
I regret allowing my ex to tell the boys things when I wasn't there
they are well aware that I love them
they were also well aware that I wasn't there for the talk
now that they are older, they tell me the things he said and the things her did and I hate myself for not being there
they didn't tell me all the lies
because they didn't want to hurt me
and
it doesn't mean that they didn't know he was lying at the time
it just means that they were concerned about protecting me
which
is NOT their job
my job is to protect them, not the other way around
and
by letting my sociopathic ex have any alone time wit them at all
i put them in the position where they had to censor what they told me so I wouldn't get hurt
Journalling...to support this stuff.
We have a realtor coming to the house today. STBXW is up early and cleaning (finally). I make the MBR up (I am sleeping there this week), take out the trash, vacuum the stairs, clean a toilet.
My stuff gets dumped in a corner. A snide comment is made in front of my kids re: her doing all the cleaning.
A friend of mine walks into the bagel store the other day and sees STBXW talking closely to 'the bagel man'. Many here recall that, more than likely, the bagel man had 'horizontal refreshment' with her two summers ago. It doesn't sting anymore, but, I feel stupid about it.
Anyway, I have decided to speak with the kids on my own. I have been slowly letting out facts to my son:
-that the law requires that he live with his mom and we will have less time together
-that I will have him for half the summer, altnerating by weeks
-that I will most likely stay in the house until it is sold
He has said that he wants to live with me: "dad, maybe D6 can live with mom and I can live with you." I told him that..maybe..someday...when he is older...he can decide to do whatever he wants.
Again, S9 is going to get hurt initially. Most of his really fun playdates are with his cousin's and friends that he sees with me. They will diminish now.
So...I am waiting for the final stip. As we stand right now, we seem to be in agreement.
Stupid question...passports. She has requested to keep hold them. Does anyone see an issue with this? Should a 3rd party hold hold them?
Thanks. FIB
XW and I have the kids passports go back and forth. No issues so far.
One thing I made sure to do on my last trip to Canada with the kids was to create a permission letter that XW signed so as to get through Canadian immigrations easier. It detailed out trip and had her phone number in case they needed to check with her.
FIB - You have just given me a wonderful new phrase - "horizontal refreshment". As in: " I'd like to be gettin' me some horizontal refreshment with my new guy right about now".
Ellie
...tears coming down. I love George Carlin. Great stuff. FIB
I'm so NOT into giving HER the passports but maybe it's my training to be paranoid and distrustful...or maybe it's her being a nut case. Which is why I'd choose to be there but if not, if you know you can't be in the same room as her, make sure you have given enough info to the kids esp the boy for now, that he KNOWS...btw, don't assume that d7 wants to stay with mom. I believe strongly that she is feeling (or will soon) that you are choosing NOT to hang with her or that you don't miss her the way you miss your son. I say this from experience Frank as my d's took h's departure much harder in the long run. Trust issues with men prevail. d21 breaks up at the drop of a hat with boys who barely make mistakes and she is PICKY as hell. Yes she's a beauty but it is not selfishness that stops her; it's distrust of men. She also said to me "why should I get married? Women give up way more than men..." and this kills me... They still resent h at times and are less patient with h when he is strict, or "chore driven", etc. He feels sad these days due to his mother's recent death, and I'm glad to say the kids HAVE been there for him - but not like they would be for me and mine. It's b/c he left, and I fear that in some ways, your kids will feel you left too, depending on how your stbxw's words go. (Loved Kerry's description of her that included the word "batchitt" --MUST adopt that term)
But our d's felt rejected partly on my behalf (your d's identifying with stbxw??) and partly b/c he left the home. D16 (now d21) said at the time "Guess dad doesn't want to be part of my life b/c he's gone to a job..." etc and until mil's funeral 2 weeks ago, when our d spoke about not knowing his mother well but trying to now, after the fact, h did not realize how little his family of origin knows his own kids. I finally answered him and said "did you know your family did not call once while you were gone, unless you were here--then they called YOU...." and this amazed him and then, I think, it shamed him. He's a lucky man to have this family here with him still.
FOIB-All I am saying Frank, is be careful of your tender d's heart. Your boy "gets" you; she may not. Yet. That will be up to you and you will have to try harder with her. But maybe all dads do...your task will be harder if your batchitt stbxw is still in her present state of BPD crazy nut status.
Your stbxw will probably mention that YOU filed so there's also that.....(I bet you she does at some point)...And Your d sees you bond with your son while hesitating to show her affection thanks to batchitt stbxw polluting things. That will improve soon thank GOD.....but your d also sees you playing catch with your son. (Hey, I played softball and your d can tool)
Make sure you do some one on one thing with her too OR teach her to play ball together. Heck, I got some college paid for thanks to my brother's teaching me to play ball (truth be told- they only taught me to play so I could retrieve balls that went into the sewer, but all in all, it was worth it).
FC told me at the time, to stress to the kids what would still remain the same--e.g., seeing their friends will still happen and even if less often, still will happen some, to make specific plans with times and dates and to KEEP those times and dates, AND they'll also make new friends and start over if they're in that mood. And they'll remain in the same school?? IF so, stress that.If not, stress that they won't keep having to move after this move...(unless it's not true...do not make promises you can't keep--please remember that).
They'll still see your side of the family (make sure that happens and have lots of cousins their age around especially early on--seriously, the more connected they feel to your non crazy family, the better).
Frequently Mention the activities you'll be doing with them and begin planning together with BOTH kids around and involved -what trips or activities you will take/do together. Get a map out or offer them 3 choices and let THEM research it and decide which one, and basically show them that they DO have SOME control in their little lives....not all is vaporizing. Not everything is beyond their power....and that you (and what's her name-batthcik chick?) will always love them.
(sigh)
J-
Noted 25....we do do stuff together. She has a gemstone collection that we work on together and we just ordered a new one the other day with me.
Don't forget, D6 had a seizure issue so, we have laid back this year on the physical activities.
Finally, I am having new fears. Today, STBXW went up to CT to visit her sister who lives up there. She took the kids and apparently her entire family is going. We had a big issue in the beginning about have a radius clause built into the stip. They finally relented. I am now concerned that CT may fall into that range. The concern is that we are bordered on the north shore by The Sound and I'm wondering if CT falls into the radius. You can't drive across the water, making that a prohibitively long drive to get there.
Ugh.
FIB
My ex works in the south bronx, and we moved to CT because it was a better commute than getting there from LI. You have to look at the traffic...
Even when I go to LI to visit and drive around (instead of taking a ferry), I can get from Danbury, CT to the suffolk county border in 1+1/2 hours. Not fun, but doable, even in a single day.
Donna...thanks for the input. I'm just never sure what is the plan with her. I truly believe she would make live choices based on how much it would hurt me. We don't talk at all anymore. Complete stranger. Communication is by text or email.
Someone suggested having written in the stip if she moves to CT that she should she drive halfway. We'll see. There is a ferry to Bridgeport. It's more scenic but more expensive and doesn't make the trip shorter unless there is crushing traffic.
One day at a time.
It's been quiet of late. No police. I can handle a few negative quips and having my laundry thrown on the floor.
My son pitched very well last weekend in his first preseason game. Proud of him. He needed a bicycle. He is riding some toddler hand-me-down. I couldn't stand it and bought him a new bike today. I charged it. F it. I'll pick it up on Wednesday.
Hey frank_d....good to 'see you'...hope you are well. FIB
Hey Frank..
You can change anything until the settlement is signed.
A few thoughts because of your contentious situation. Write down your fears, then consider what works. Share with your lawyer. For example:
Passports: Each parent holds onto one of the children's passports. Include that the other parent has to get the consent of the other parent in writing for trips outside of the country including itinerary within a certain time frame.
For distances across oceans, or countries without US borders, the requirements could be tougher.
When the trip is over, the passport is returned within X time frame, with some penalty associated.
For me, this would be based on a 'flight' fear, or the spouse just wanting to be a jerk. I guess it's assuming difficulty (like her not giving you passports when needed)
Moving Radius: Find out the extent of the radius and adjust the radius based on driving/land based distance mileage.
Your almost ex spouse controls through batchitt craziness, being unreasonable. How can you legally counter this type of terrorism?
Identify your needs. Tell your lawyer to fix them.
Of course, the lawyers in this group and those more experienced can advise you better.
*hugs*
Thanks Gypsy. I like some of your suggestions and will address them with L.
I want to have some fun here:
Humorous DB Rules of the Road (feel free to add your own)- Snoop
- There is cheese in that tunnel.
- Women don't get tattoos for you. They get them for other men.
- If the ring comes off, it DOES mean something.
- Snoop
- If your WAS spouse goes AWOL for 4 days, you don't greet them with a home-cooked meal and sexy attire
- Separation=OM
- Getting an email is NOT a babystep
- Snoop
FIB
Cont'd...
Fire up the bullshit meter: If something seems wrong, it is.
Be the one to leave and/or pack the spouse's bags for departure.
If a spouse says there's no one else, they're looking for housing.
If a spouse conceals unexpectedly shaven genitals, don't believe it's to ease sweating from exercising.
Have bumper stickers made and give to cheating spouses, "Pussy's expensive.", "Cock Shock: $5,000 an inch.*" depending on sexual preference.
*based on average divorce costing $27,000. Adjust for contentiousness and any alimony or lump sum payments.
Love it..especially that it bypassed the swear filter. LOLOL. FIB
Hmmm 27,000 divided by 5,000. Where did you get your figures gypsy? LOLOL FIB
Wishful thinking? I'll have to errr...
bone up on my research...
Humorous DB Rules of the Road (feel free to add your own)
•Snoop
•There is cheese in that tunnel.
•Women don't get tattoos for you. They get them for other men.
•If the ring comes off, it DOES mean something.
•Snoop
•If your WAS spouse goes AWOL for 4 days, you don't greet them with a home-cooked meal and sexy attire
•Separation=OM
•Getting an email is NOT a babystep
•Snoop
That there is pretty funny FIB!!
And love your addition, Gypsy, especially by the inch:))
Sunny
I'm waiting for KerryK...and J3B...etc....to come by and start commenting on how much they are worth now. LOLOL. BTW....my divorce costs are WAY higher than 27K. LOL. FIB
Gypsy -
As I recall, your XH wasted over $100K in D expenses so I hope your measurments were meant to be metric as in $5000 per centimeter.
OMG! I so needed this laugh today!
Gypsy....YOU THE WOMAN!!!
The shaven genital and lame excuse is priceless. People are so dumb when they lie to themselves.
OMG! I so needed this laugh today!
Gypsy....YOU THE WOMAN!!! smile
Not sure why but always makes a woman laugh...LOL.
FIB
While we are on the subject, this video is priceless...
Penis Song
Sandy.. The former spouse gave the exercise excuse for his unexpectedly shaven genitals. I realized I hadn't seen them in quite a while when I did catch a glance. I can only plead recovering from a significant head injury for being so clueless.. and/or opting not to have a clue.
FIB... penises are cute and cuddly in their inert state, just like baby bunnies. When they get all excited.. well then those are the stalks and magic mushrooms my mama warned me about. Ahhh the memories!
Kerry... He was impetuous that's for sure. I may have shot myself in the foot that summer by feeling like I had to turn over every stone rather than just divorce. The financial situation would have been great, in retrospect. Then again.. I was in disbelief, had immense difficulty processing information (I'd try to process and all I could do was cry uncontrollably I presume because of the head injury.) and truly believed in the basis of our relationship.
Guess I can't worry about the past, because I have the present! What a gift.
*hugs*
Well.. except after seeing my tax bill. I will have nothing once I pay.
FIB... penises are cute and cuddly in their inert state, just like baby bunnies. When they get all excited.. well then those are the stalks and magic mushrooms my mama warned me about. Ahhh the memories!
ROFLMAO. Gotta find me a woman who can't stand the physics of inertia.
FIB
PS...we're on a roll now....LOLOLOL.
I am finding much humor from the fact that your thread is titled "All rise".
...thanks to gypsy KerryK. LOL. Here's to having a generous stalk and great mushrooms FIB
....and minimal shrinkage!
AND...
While we are on the subject, this video is priceless...
Penis Song Today's
Belly-Laugh Of The Day Award 
is presented to:
KerryK!!
Heya FIB, I caught a bit of the Dr Phil show today while changing my shoes....it was about the Family Court System, or more about the flaws of. The part I saw talked about the court appointed children guardians getting rich by keeping things sloshing around in the courts while children are abused and are killed by estranged spouses with joint custoday and visitation... It so made me think of you (and many others) and I just needed to jump on here and share. Just one of those strong feelings that I couldn't stuff down.
Back to your regularly scheduled thread....
Take care, TTFN
LGs in the state of NY have no say in who gets custody. She met with our kids multiple times and simply chatted with them. They have no special training or special degrees in child psychology. The LG by FAR was not, IMO, impartial. She clearly sided with my W and at one point said, "if I could, I would award as much money as I could to the wife because it only benefits the kids."
Well, what the F am I gonna do with the money? I'm gonna use it on my kids too and probably MORE SO than STBXW. She has already gone to a Nissan dealership.
Back to the penis song.
FIB
must "over-COME" inertia at all costs...
just to keep the topic light b/c God knows, FIB needs to...(and F* that LG-she's a man hating idiot, who can't recognize a batchitt light bulb when it glows in the dark)...
okay, for now, here are a couple other add ons to the WAS/ MLC/ DB winner's column:
Closing computers so fast the top breaks off, is NOT b/c they "want to save energy", but b/c they don't want you to see their new personal ad on match.com
[i]"It not you, it's me "[/i] (ACCEPT THIS, FOR IT IS TRUE,
IT IS THEM!)
"Kids are resilient, I need to discover my potential and who I am" -- is bass ackwards TOTAL BS for it is
we adults who are resilient, and our children who need to discover THEIR potential...
"I didn't mean for it to happen"-while perhaps true, it also applies to most murderers and rapists (or so my clients told me.)
And anyway, so what?
That's it for now...
j-
How about...
"I knew the first year we were married (of a 20+ year marriage of course...he, he, he) that we were wrong for each other."
In the words of Adam Sandler's character in Big Daddy, "Well THAT would have been a good thing to know!"
Or maybe this one which comes on the heels of a fling with a 21 year old and snookering your stbx husband and boys into a Thanksgiving weekend with HER family which she promptly failed to show for, choosing instead a long weekend away (hell, 500 MILES away) with her newly discovered "soulmate"...
"I just know we can still be friends, still do things together with the boys. I never saw us as being like some of those couples who divorce and are so nasty to each other."
Uhm...WHAT?! A male friend who would do me like that would get decked. And wouldn't be a friend anymore.
Best phrase for those who have slipped over to the dark side is definitely BATCHIT CRAZY.
Insanity....there is no other explanation.
Peace FIB,
Bill
Hah. Great stuff. More:
- Going to study at the library when the house is empty, well, you'd better look into it
- Vein stripping, botox and a new bellybutton ring are NOT for YOU even when they say that it is
- When going out with the girls is cancelled 3 days in a row for lack of a babysitter, you'd better check into it
- Paying a bill at Victoria's Secret at the mall at 9 PM, well, you'd better check into why she even has a bill there
- If you wife leaves the house with her panties sticking out of the top of her jeans, you'd better look into it
- If your wife switches from overalls to white miniskirts that you can see through, you'd better look into it
- If your wife goes from a medium to an XS, gets a personal trainer and starts carrying her stuff around on her shoulder in the house, you'd better check into it.
FIB
..and my favorite:
Our whole marriage was a lie.
FIB
My Favorite...
I don't FEEL married anymore so my friendship (relationship with OW) is not your business."
My favorite...
I think that I will be with Ed (OM who turns 70 soon) for maybe 10 years until he dies, and then if you are still available, I may return to you.
My favorite...
I think that I will be with Ed (OM who turns 70 soon) for maybe 10 years until he dies, and then if you are still available, I may return to you.
Did you tell her that you considered yourself very lucky and would wait with baited breath?! LOL
My favorite...
I am not having an affair anymore because it isn't a secret.
kat
How about "it's not an affair. because she said she doesn't DO affairs. besides, I told you yesterday that I was through with this marriage."
"I am not having an affair anymore because it isn't a secret." @Kat
I heard this one^, too!
My all time favorite was @ my birthday dinner, throughout which my H spent looking past me;
"You're just angry that I'm still boffing(sp?) that woman."
OMG...all of those above...Kerry...kat..hoosier...bnd...lol. Where do they get this???? Kerry...are you still waiting for Ed to box? LOL
OOOH...I almost forgot:
- You pushed me into the backseat of that car.
- Well, I may have been into it physically for the moment but not emotionally
- Well, I had my 'chicken cutlets'(those bra inserts) in and I couldn't feel anything
LOL
FIB
(yeah...and I wear my protective cup when I go out..LOL)
Crap...generosity..he said that?
Oooh...I just love these lines we got. LOLOLOLOL FIB
Oh this was another one, killed me at the time but you take it with a grain of salt...
We aren't married anymore just because there is some piece of paper filed away at the courthouse that says we are.
Yes my former H said those things to me and well, way more.
kat
I got this from my now-Ex: At the time of the bomb, she said we had not been married in her mind for a very long time -- months at least, years even -- and implying she was under no obligation whatsoever to even let me know she had come to such a decision, let alone give me a say in that matter.
It was a constantly running theme with her following the bomb. She alone could unilaterally decide that the M had already ended -- the Law, God and society be d*mned -- and without even saying anything to me. Batchit crazy thinking.
There were lots of insane corollaries that spun off that one, which I won't go into right now (I could fill a book.)
My unvoiced retort to that was that one could unilaterally decide they are M'ed and D'ed any number of times without making it known openly. Thus xW could have entered into M and D over and over with any number of men all during the course of the 17+ years we were together, under such terms.
Again, she has continually proven herself to be batchit insane.
"I got this from my now-Ex: At the time of the bomb, she said we had not been married in her mind for a very long time -- months at least, years even -- "
This train of thought seems prety common for the cheating WAS!
First, I think Batchitt is spelled with 2 t's...just sayin'...
and here is a fav line from an ex bf who broke up with me but had been bopping someone else for some time...and wanted to be intimate AFTER dropping a bomb...said
"IS THIS GOING TO PUT A DAMPER ON THE EVENING??" ("Why no, no damper. Nothing makes me hornier than getting dumped by you...shoot, it's a turn on for sure").
Anyone hear the "I've Been miserable for YEARS", "was NEVER happy" and or "I Only SEEMED happy to please everyone else" lines?
Love the secret misery line that revises an entire marital history. Also amnesia about things said and not said. Discussions about staying at home with birth of 3rd child and giving up partnership at major law firm is converted into "I do all the working...no one else does" and zero recall of HIS suggestion....oh well, they have to forget, or be responsible. Getting behind on finances b/c of their unilateral choices and having THEM complain that they are broke b/c.......of all the "costs of everything". (No, you stopped working, went exploring & plowed through our savings without telling me and now you are whining about how far behind WE are...(sigh))
For some odd reason, It does help to know there's a script out there with about 5 versions... and that we are not alone.
j-
Anyone hear the "I've Been miserable for YEARS", "was NEVER happy" and or "I Only SEEMED happy to please everyone else" lines?
I got the line "I had doubts beginning at six months" back in October.
I told her "that's called the honeymoon period. At six months I was wondering about us too because I'm a morning person and you aren't and your family was driving me crazy."
Still, we had D11 three years in. Had down moments before D7, but then was mostly good through our 10th year when something ... or a lot of things hit at once to cause her to end it in her head.
Really, I haven't felt loved since December 2006.
Sadly, apart from what he told me, (I am not a family man, our marriage was a mistake, you are the meanest person I've met, I would never marry you again, you have ruined my life, you'll cause me cancer and kill me etc etc etc), I read what he had told her as well :if it wasnt for the kids, he would be long gone, our sex life sucked, etc etc
And yes, this is not an XH!!! I busted my @ss for this man... Oh dear!
K
While my sitch has never to date shown any evidence of OM, my favorite was the following: months after she gotten her apartment and moved out, she was asking me something about some action I had take or some reaction I had had and I replied incredulously, matter-of-factly, "
Hello?-y" by stating the obvious: "You
left," yo which she indignantly replied, "I did
not leave!!"
The most hurtful line I heard from my stbx - not the only hurtful one, mind you, was - "This marraige was a big mistake."
The best line I ever heard, from some wise person long ago, was, "Time heals all wounds."
My atty. said most of them come clean when they are caught. Mine's been caught and never, even yet, came clean.
Yeah, my ex tried to insinuate that it was I who was the one who left the M.
Mine's been caught and never, even yet, came clean.
Mine too. You can put xW in that group. Refuses to acknowledge she was even caught or that there was anything to catch.
"Mine too. You can put xW in that group. Refuses to acknowledge she was even caught or that there was anything to catch."
What do you think is up with that, NCBs? Are they mentally ill, stupid, in denial, or just plain crazy? We both know there is something seriously wrong with that mentality, but I wonder if it makes it harder on those of us in that LB category to work things out in our own minds because of it???
poet
D11 said something tonight that I wasn't happy about. She said STBXW said when they are old enough to get married they have to be really careful or else it could turn out to be a disaster.
I'm not sure if that was a swipe at me or not. It may not have been. She may have been talking about her parents, who had an awful M.
I am sure that I should just let it go. The only disaster is the financial state she put us in before the D and the mess she's going to make of her and our daughters' lives after.
It's up to me to rebuild my life so the girls have some stability.
And I'll never, ever, ever hint that our M was a disaster.
The poor kids....I told my kids that "if I got to do it all over again, and the only way I could have YOU KIDS in my life was to go thru all this again, I'd do it all over again in a heart beat b/c You are the best thing that ever happened to me." It helped to say that. We never ever want the kids to think they aren't worth this, b/c they are, and b/c it's the one thing I said that made them feel more valuable at a time they needed to hear it. And b/c even if it's not true, why tell the innocent ones that? They see the pain we were/are in and in real life they should be the center of our worlds but instead our "issues" are...which sucks for them.
Our older d once asked me if the reason we were fighting & maybe divorcing was b/c of them - and I said "on the contrary, The reason we are trying to stay married is b/c of YOU..." which seemed to comfort her. It's true. (Besides, even if you don't feel that way, why tell THE KIDS? )
Back to "Crazy WAS contest"...so many entries, so many "crazy batchitt awards" to give out. Must ponder more.
So far, I love the "Didn't FEEL married, so it's not cheating" and "it's not an affair b/c it's no longer secret" (why? b/c she got caught?) So far, those are near the top of my list.
Um, MEANEST things to say are in a diff awards category. But the crazy stuff is sometimes worse b/c it makes the LBSer wonder if they're being gaslighted (For those of you under 35-Gaslight is a film in which the h tries to convince his w that she is going crazy by h denying reality all around, with both little and big things..."no your purse wasn't on the table, it's NEVER been on the table" etc.) And it delays the LBSer's "awakening". FIB I think you can address that someday when you're in the mood.
So for the LBSer trying to figure out what is happening AND what to do about it, and what to expect, the crazy stuff is also harder b/c when it's all just mean stuff coming from the WAS, you KNOW you need to get out or you realize it sooner, whereas If the WAS flips back and forth, then so do you...and your life becomes purgatorial.
My biggest regret is the time consumed trying to understand the incomprehensible. Sure, some things must be addressed but the idea that we'll ever "get" what ALL happened in their heads is inaccurate. And when they have real amnesia or revised history or whatever you want to call it, don't expect to have the same recall even if and when you DO reconcile. Let go of the idea that you'll agree on the past....yikes...
Actions we would NEVER take, are beyond our ken and do not need to be "understood" so much to me b/c what matters is whether the WAS gets it enough that they won't do it again. You know, going forward...not always wondering what the heck just happened in the past.
We want to comprehend b/c if we can understand it, we THINK we can better control our lives or future or "it". I think trying to grasp what is going on makes sense for a time, then we need to move on, GAL and take care of ourself. Don't let it go on and on....
So, Award nomination categories are 1) "Batchitt crazyiest Remark" ; 2) "Meanest Jerkiest Comment", and how about 3) "Most Amnesia" in a WAS?
I am open to more awards categories (of course!). And now, for the nominations...please continue...
Ooops, HEY FIB mind this hijack? It's taken a turn -but I'm liking it- and we are on a roll of sorts...is this okay? (then again, I say you started it...sort of)
j-
Additional (from the rich and famous):
"I don't regret cheating; it helped me change my ways."
"I needed some alone time."
"I did not have sexual relationships with that woman."
"It depends on what the nature of the word "is" (re: sexual relationship) is."
"I felt bad for the prostitute/transvestite, etc. because he/she was crying, and helped them by emptying out my wallet."
"I get a headache if I don't have sex every three days."
"Sex is best when cheating."
From
Psychology: Affairs
Women may be more concerned with the impact of their affairs on their children than they are with the effect on their mate, whom they have already devalued and discounted in anticipation of the affair. Of course, a woman is likely to feel the children would be in support of her affair, and thus may involve them in relaying her messages, keeping her secrets, and telling her lies. This can be mind-blowingly seductive and confusing to the kids. Sharing the secret of one parent's affair, and hiding it from the other parent, has essentially the same emotional impact as incest.
I highly recommend reading this article if your issues involved infidelity.
In recent years, promiscuity seems suicidal so only the suicidal—that is, the romantics—are on the streets after dark.
Betrayed men, like betrayed women, hunker down and do whatever they have to do to hold their marriage together. A few men and women go into a rage and refuse to turn back, and then spend a lifetime nursing the narcissistic injury, but that unusual occurrence is no more common for men than for women. Marriage can survive either a husband's infidelity or a wife's, if it is stopped, brought into the open, and dealt with.
I have cleaned up more affairs than a squad of motel chambermaids. Infidelity is a very messy hobby. It is not an effective way to find a new mate or a new life.
And finally, I LOVE IT:
For the greatest enjoyment of infidelity, I recommend you observe from a safe physical and emotional distance and avoid any suicidal impulse to become a participant.
FIB
And it delays the LBSer's "awakening". FIB I think you can address that someday when you're in the mood.
Funny 25...I don't know WHAT'S right anymore. Yeah...it was all me, everything according to her.
HOWEVER....everyone can benefit from a dose of reality. Yesterday, I was told by the local main newspaper in our area that I will be listed as a 5 star surgeon at one of the hospitals I work at next month in the health section. THEN...our chief medical officer approached me while I was sitting in the doctor's lounge and he told me that he was submitting my name to be a candidate on the medical board and would like to see me as president of the medical staff at some point.
I'm not an a$$hole tho'. This means nothing with regards to a marriage that is on the brink of final termination. Five years ago, the same accolades would have lead me to a podium and, as in
A Beautiful Mind, I would have professed undying love for STBXW and given her all the reason for it. Now, well, I give the same accolades, if you know what I mean
sans the former.
S & H.
FIB
FIB..
Congratulations on the recognition and resulting prestige. Must feel good for the soul.
As far as you being at fault for everything wrong in the marriage, the former spouse accused me of the same. I took great comfort in his statement because as long as he blamed me for everything, there was no way I was.
It's a journey to stop being affected by the other spouse's negative perspective and asking oneself "what if's". When folks climb out of the muck, take responsibility for their own actions and move forward, that's when healing begins.
*hugs*
OK 25:
You filed...you're driving this now.
My response to this throughout:
Would you like to go to counseling?
When confronting STBXW about OM3:
Why can't another man love me? I can be loved again!
When approached about her pink panties circumferentially sticking out above her jeans:
Oh...I didn't realize it.
Uh..yeah...and I leave my fly open all the time.
FIB
Oh yeah..'bagel man' update.
On Sunday, her day with the kids, she came home mid day to get something. She LOCKS HER CAR DOOR while she runs inside so I can't get access to the kids. My kids pull the button and set off her alarm. D6 kisses me.
S9 is blowing his finger tips.
Me: Why are you blowing your fingers.
S9: I burned them.
Me: How?
S9: On a hot kettle.
Me: How did you burn them on a hot kettle?
S9: At the bagel store.
Me: How could you get near one?
S9: XXX the bagel man was giving us a tour of the back.
Initially, I was enraged as this was my first time that an OM had an interaction with my son. Although S9 could have been burned at home (the burn was minor), he shouldn't have been in the back during working hours with ovens going. Initial reaction was to attack STBXW. Next was to tell bagel man in the future to not let my son back there.
I did neither. Little boy inside. Going forward.
I have to get used to this.
FIB
I have to get used to this.
YES, and well done.
cire
Good on silencing the little boy inside!
I hear things from my kids also. My daughter rides on the back of old man Ed's Harley. I just brush it aside and move forward. Although I do enjoy hearing things like he has to take a bunch of pills each morning. Such is the state of being a 70 year old step dad.
Such is the state of being a 70 year old step dad.
..that your wife is waiting to box so she can return to you and share his big bucks.......
LOL...teasing Kerry. Cheers.
FIB
Actually I would not be surprised if she tried to do just that...but I don't think Kerry would go for it...
Guys, guys that WAS her original plan, remember?
FIB, goo to see you checking in. When you are MIA, I am always worried she pulled some cr@p on you again...
K
She does nearly every day. I've just stop posting about it lest you all think that it still affects me. In some way, she tortures me nearly every day. FIB
Hi Frank,
A bit off topic, but I am curious if you could perform an appendectomy on yourself like
Leonid Rogozov did.
Boredom no moredom I think summarizes it. I could do minor stuff on myself but I don't. I have removed stuff from STBXW in the office.
FIB
I have removed stuff from STBXW in the office.
Congratulations! Trinkets from strumpets aren't worth the time.
*hugs*
"Trinkets from Strumpets"
I think I've found the name for my new band, lol!!!
Finality, I think, so to speak.
As some of you recall, trial was rescheduled for July 15th. My L called me the other day to say we have court on Tuesday, May 4th. This, now, appears to be the end: to sign the stipulation.
STBXW has been trying to 'stick it to me'. She calls contractors, repair people and the realtor behind my back when they should really be dealing with me. She threatens me to call them, book the dates, etc even after I've made repair arrangements.
STBXW: "you're trying to keep me in the dark".
D6 appears to be aligning more with STBXW, but, she still loves her dad. Yesterday, while my son was in religious school, I took her to the mall to 'go shopping with daddy'. I bought her a vanilla bean frappucino and she went to Claire's and picked out new earrings, sunglasses and make up (kids).
I still have feelings of unease/disquiet when, eg, last night, trying to do HW with the kids they suddenly HAVE to call mommy and I hear them say I miss you/love you etc. That's something I have to get over. They are never denied calling her...never dissuaded...etc. It's just my personal feelings of feeling inferior to her at the times that they do this. They never did that before. OTOH...there are times when they call me and say the same thing.
Divorce is not easy.
It's rough too, right now, because I coach girl's lacrosse on Saturday and my son has BB on Saturday. That part isn't rough but, on Sunday, STBXW does all the social stuff with them. I guess that will change soon when I will have them for a whole weekend. As I understand it, the divorce decree becomes effective on signing, so, if we sign on 5/4, done deal until the official decree is stamped.
It's been a long road. Never in a million years would I have ever guessed that my sitch would go from the 'Inspirational' forum here at DB....to one of the worst here. I had a great chat with my L the other day, a lighthearted one for the first time in a long time. She told me that my sitch was one of the worst that she has had in over 26 years. It is humbling to try and contemplate how this happened...how you can get dragged into this and get forced into a corner...to have to fight back and, in so doing, get financially and emotionally sucked dry.
Finality.
I texted my buddy 'Anthony' the other day, on Sunday, my day without the kids. Again, I sorta 'whined' that it won't be easy losing time with my children. He understood, but, correctly stating said to me that this is the burden that most men must carry when divorced.
Ironically, I will miss the camaraderie of some of the people here. Even tho' many of my phone calls were made during times of emotional extremis, I will miss the supportive tones of voices of the people that talked with me and the comfort of having someone to talk to when I felt all alone. There were times when I held back and made conscious efforts not to call out of fear of 'listener burnout'. It's easy to forget sometimes that the DB'er on the other end of the line has his/her own issues to have to deal with. I'll never be able to express the depth of my gratitude to my friends here.
Finality. Will loneliness be next when my family moves out? I'll have to keep busy. Perhaps, this will be the time to start dating again. Unsure. I know I am/was not ready. My thermometer was the need to run home and see my children. If you need to grab as much time with them as you can, then, IMO, it would not be fair to someone else to enter into any sort of intimate relationship. I guess that will change soon.
In May 2006, STBXW told me that she loved me but wanted the romance back. It took me a long time to realize that it wasn't all me. It wasn't that I wasn't a romantic man. It was that we didn't have great sex or that I was unable to satisfy her. It wasn't because I forgot birthdays, anniversaries. It wasn't because I was a bad father or crummy son-in-law.
I do believe that divorce brings out the 'real you'. I am glad that I filed for divorce instead of separation. Our relationship was truly unsalvageable. It's just so sad. As a professional who must look at people in the eye..ask them intimate questions..examine them clothed and unclothed..in pain, etc, I can't even look at STBXW in the eye anymore.
Finality.
FIB
Don't feel that you can't keep coming here. I always thought of this forum as after the divorce, and thus didn't come here until then. I know now that it isn't. All stages of divorce are included.
Issues will still arise and sadly they don't just go away once you are Divorced. Please don't feel cut off in any way. Years later people still come here.
I am sorry that you have gone through this terrible mess. You are doing a great job keeping it together.
kat
Frank--don't feel like you have to leave this place! I've been final for almost a year, and still come here from time to time; some of my best friends are people I've only "met" here. The last thing you want to do as you're making the next transition is to feel isolated.
Thanks Kat. I'm fine. My main issues now are financially rebuilding, selling the house and adapting to the loss of time with my kids.
I look forward to not having her in the house anymore, the eggshell thing. I look forward to not being constantly insulted from every area in life, especially in front of the kids. It's the final lap...hitting the wall...and I have to keep putting one foot in front of the other.
I don't want to crush you but there is no physical chemistry.
Hmmm...I won't go into details but I'm sure ALL OF US used to start on one side of the floor and end up across the room.
FIB
Keep posting, man.
Sometimes get in that situation where I read but don't reply, when support is one of the big reasons for this board. So just posting to say, I hear you.
Yes, keep putting one foot in front of the other.
Hey, you havent burned me out and I have free calls to US (although with H here now, it's more difficult)...
We got to start planning that trip to Paros Frank...
Hugs
K
I used to get the same feling when the kids talked to H when we were separated. I felt he didnt deserve them to loveh im, I felt they were fooled by him. Soon, I realised he was and always will be their father and I want my kids to be close to him, they need him. Frank, it's a difficult road ahead, not as hard as you expect it to be. And remember..., this IS the year of the Pisces...
Oh! That's much better, I thought it was the "Year of the Pieces"...
Great posts.
Kalni...on Paros, near port there is/was a souvlaki place near an olive tree. Great souvlaki. I loved Greece. I didn't like the noise and pollution of Athens but I LOVED the ruins, especially near the Plaka...the Temple to Hephaestus.
Hoosier, Geronimo...my problem is: most people here had their WAS's punch out on them, or, their divorce was over in 6 months (like it should be). Think...I've been under the same roof with this woman now for four years as a combatant. It dragged out too long thanks to the State of NY.
I think...I think...I am thankful that I got to see my D6 grow from age 3 to age 7 and I got to see S9 grow from 5-9. I only get 2 dinners soon, yet, my L boasts that I have the most parenting time for a man in NY.
I don't want to go backwards. Nights....are going to be lonely soon and I have no choice but to adapt. I know I will. I just don't look forward to the transition until I get there.
Hugs to all. FIB
It definitely sucks Frank. It makes me want to become an activist for this issue, that's how wrong I think it is.
But you...YOU my friend have learned so many lessons over these four years. You found out what was important and allowed that knowledge to change the way that you think. And you certainly have grown in your love for your children. You've allowed what must sometimes seem like an endless nightmare to refine you, to toughen you in all the right ways.
I have no doubt that you will make every moment with your children a time where they know they are loved and cherished. While I rue the minimal amount of time you get, my bet is that your kids will feel more love in their time with you than many kids who live full time with their parents ever get to feel.
As for the lonely times in between, well Frank, you are an educated and adventurous man. With all the traveling you've done, with all the interests you have, you might be surprised at how easily you fill your free time. As for dating, etc, don't be in a rush. Let it happen in it's time and when it feels right to you.
If we've learned nothing else through the struggles we all fought through, we hopefully at least learned the incredible beauty of listening to and following our hearts.
Blessings,
Bill
P.S. I know why you would need to step away from here. But I assure you that in time you will realize that you have much to offer others who are new to this mess.
Hoosier, Geronimo...my problem is: most people here had their WAS's punch out on them, or, their divorce was over in 6 months (like it should be). Think...I've been under the same roof with this woman now for four years as a combatant. It dragged out too long thanks to the State of NY.
I really cannot imagine.
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Hello Frank..
I get upset thinking about the injustice of your situation even with your victory of having the most parenting time of any man in New York.
And one thing comes to mind..
"Despite"...
Despite the terror tactics, threats, accusations and vindictive actions of your divorcing spouse..
You developed and nurtured a loving caring close relationship with both your children.
Despite the day to day acrimony and malicious intents of your divorcing spouse
You maintained a commitment of caring and excellence with your patients while at the same time building the respect of your colleagues resulting in a prestigious awards and accolades.
Despite the biblical Job of divorce cases, you're emerging as a man of steel with a heart of gold. And a physician that does no harm.. in all areas of his life.
And that makes you pretty incredible.
*hugs*
Thanks Gypsy. HI Frank...yeah, I paid my money in. I think there should be a disclaimer on the counselling stuff: no guarantees with MLC or spouses with deep psychological issues.
OK...sharing one more.
Telephone texts. We have an interested bidder on the house who placed a low bid. Realtor suggested that we counter slightly lower with another bid. In spite of all STBXW has done to me, I keep her informed of what's going on primarily because she has an interest in the house and secondarily to avoid any more motions. Herewith:
Me: STBXW...offer for X dollars. Will counter with X-Y dollars. Another outside broker is coming tomorrow at noon
STBXW: That counter is too high. I will speak to 'Mary' (realtor who is really supposed to be dealing only with me since my name is on the house. STBXW goes around my back, but, I tell Mary to keep her informed but all decisions must originate with me. STBXW knows that I will not agree on a final sale price without her mutual agreement.) We have already reduced the price of the house within the stips requirements even tho' not signed yet.
Me: It stays. (this was recommended by the realtor)
STBXW: I will talk to Mary
Me: U said that already. Feel free.
STBXW: I am 2 agree as well. You put that in writing (only on final sale, not how house is sold) and I will be happy to forward it 2 the necessary parties (threat again with the legal stuff) and show that you are still making decisions without my being mutually agreeable. AKA BULLY.
Bleh. We have nothing in writing signed and our stip will spell things out more clearly when it is signed on 5/4.
So...there you go. I'm a bully for trying to bargain to get a better deal on the sale of the house.
Torture.
Bleh.
FIB
STBXW now grabs the milk container if she sees me getting a box of cereal for breakfast and walks around the kitchen holding the milk container in her hand so that I can't get it. I said nothing. Put the cereal box back and grabbed a yogurt.
Someone here recommended a book to me which I bought and never read. Picked it up this morning. It's called Divorce Poison.
FIB
Okay - this is just about the childish thing I think I have ever read on these boards - what is she 4 years-old??? Good grief!
I'm lost. You two don't still live together do you?
Oh yes, poor Frank has been in the same house as his batchitt craxy soon to be X for 4 verrrryyyy long years.
Yeah, it's a total "War of the Roses" situation.
Poor Frank! I would have probably done bodily harm by now.
Maybe you should give her a timeout since she's acting like a toddler.
"Accidentally" throw the yogurt on her face next time Frank!!
K
Wow- Absolutely childish behavior by your wife. At this point, however, childish is far better than malicious and evil...
Keep taking care of yourself and the kids-
Hugs, Bunny
"Accidentally" throw the yogurt on her face next time Frank!!
K
And here I was thinking the day was going to end without a
Belly-Laugh Of The Day Award! Kalni. Hands down.
Not to diminish or be unsympathetic re: the childish crap Franks is subjected to, of course.
STBXW now grabs the milk container if she sees me getting a box of cereal for breakfast and walks around the kitchen holding the milk container in her hand so that I can't get it. I said nothing. Put the cereal box back and grabbed a yogurt.FIB
You have GOT to be kidding me.
It's true. Now, after four years, I post this just to show that some people really have issues.
Exclusion
As most people know, I have asked the school for separate mailings/copies of events so that I can be in touch with my kid's lives. D6's school teacher has been great with this and sends home sealed envelopes, extra ditto sheets, emails, etc. Yesterday morning, I received an email listing 3 field trips that parents could go on, local, and short.
In the evening, D6 handed me a sealed envelope, in her backpack that was sent home by the teacher. STBXW was doing HW that night. Shortly after, the following texts begin while we are in the house together:
STBXW: I will be attending D6's field trips with her. Already sent back a reply (translated, you can't go)
Me: No problem. Haven't looked at the dates but may go on one if my schedule permits
Me: Hi STBXW, I will look into the two Wednesdays and might attend one or both. Thanks.
STBXW: I am attending.
Me: Didn't say you weren't. We can sit with D6.
STBXW: Two can't go and don't you have a job 2 go to? Deliberately limiting your income is not a good MO. (?huh? a 1 1/2 hour field trip over lunchtime is limiting your income? are their rules about parent's not going?)
Me: Ms. 'Teacher' wrote differently. Thanks. Will try and make one or both. Thanks. FIB
STBXW: I will be on both
Me: Great!!! U can give D6 her medication. I'll let u know in advance what dates work for me. I told D6 I will try and make one. FIB
I wrote this long email out to the teacher including the exclusionary stuff above, then.....I DELETED IT!!!! I rewrote it:
Dear Ms. XXX: I am going to try and attend one or both Wednesday field trips pending my schedule. I haven't made one at all and Wednesdays are my clearest. D6 was very excited. FIB
And there you have it all:
-walks around the house holding the milk container in her hand
-attempts to exclude me from going on a field trip
-uses 'limiting my income', even at this late stage of signing the stipulation as a ruse to keep me from seeing my daughter on a field trip
Yes CTH. We are still under the same roof 4 years post bomb and 2 1/2 years post filing. You can thank the State of NY for that and my desire to be a father to my children and play a part in their lives.
FIB
PS...I had totally forgotten that Sunday was our anniversary, a far cry from 4 years ago. That was the 'last one'. FIB
Frank,
you just have got to accept you have an enemy. You are dealing with a crazy mean woman. I am probably more mad than you are now... I wish I could hit her. Seriously. She makes me feel like I feel in movies where the victims are so openly abused and no o ne sees it... you know?
But, as 25yrs mlc would say, soon you will be free. Faank, you made it sane out of this. She cant say the same.
Hugs
K
FIB, I just don't know how you have had the strength to endure this. A true testament to your nature, no doubt.
No way could I live with my stbxw for that long under these circumstances.
I hope that you get some closure, peace and much needed time for yourself soon, and to be able to focus on your future!
Peace, FIB, you deserve it!
Hugs all around, FIB.
poet
Trust me. It's not easy. I think..if I walk away with anything from this, is that I have been able to stay under control.
During this journey, I have met several divorced women who were either cheated on or abandoned by their H's. They push their kids to their XH's. They give them schedules..itineraries....tell them what to buy...what they need...etc. They complain if their XH's aren't giving enough time to their kids.
Me? Excluded. Uninformed. Kids locked in car or left somewhere else if she needs to stop home so that I can't see them. Etc.
Personally, I believe that she will do whatever possible to remove them from me and, as a physician, if I am ever late to get them, she will use every opportunity to file a motion to remove parenting time from me.
FIB
Bunny, Gardener, Geronimo....I kid you not. That's the deal.
How would you like to try and go with your daughter on a 1 1/2 hour lunchtime field trip to the local library...and be painted as trying to limit your income?
FIB
Hi FIB. We can only hope that 'what goes around, comes around'.
Frank, I got the same from my ex. After years of claiming she could never get me involved in our children's activities (which was never true), after the S she suddenly complained I was too involved -- and said that it was impeding my ability to provide full attention to my work, and that I didn't need to lose my job. Basically, she wanted me out of the picture regarding our kids (I also took this to mean she felt my only worth to her and our children was as a mere paycheck.)
But during the child custody battle we were forced by the court to attend a session with legal counsel on co-parenting after D. The core of it was a course on Do's and Dont's. We also got to express our positions before this court-appointed mediator and were given some reality checks about our newfound situation.
I think this one afternoon-long session was one thing that really got exW to start to open her eyes. Her viewpoint has for some time been that husbands are optional and fathers are to simply walk away from their children following D. After the meditation/training she still holds this basic view, but her words and actions in this regard have been attenuated.
Partly because of the thin ice she saw that she was on regarding her overt actions to exclude and alienate me from our kids' status and activities (failures to disclose parent-teacher meetings, making unilateral decisions about the children's education and daycare, etc.), exW began to be more careful in how she handled these matters -- not perfectly or with due respect, mind you, but enough that I began to notice. And while this was likely preparation to clean up her act prior to moving forward with her custody suit, since the time she settled the case a few months later, she has still maintained her attempts to at least appear to be doing the right thing -- a few infractions aside.
I guess I'm saying that talking with the court-appointed mediators has helped stemmed exW's steamrollering over me with complete abandon, and replaced it with more careful and grudging (if not totally sincere) compliance.
So, I offer this as a possibility to you: would the court system in NY consider sending the both of you to some form of mediation and/or co-parenting counseling? Your HSTBX (hopefully-soon-to-be-ex) sounds just as ludicrous as my exW was at her worst. And such waywards really need a serious wake-up call, as such a session might offer.
Otherwise, as they say, document, document, document. (I know you know this.)
Thanks for the suggestion NCB. STBXW and I were mandated to a P.E.A.C.E. program early on during the start of the D process. Honestly, she violated nearly every principle taught in the class.
I don't believe we have any mandated post-D courses or classes here in NY. Again, I truly doubt that STBXW would be able to make any positive changes..even as small as your xW's...in the near future.
FIB
FIB,
Sorry I don't know your entire story other than it sounds like you have been through one hellish nightmare. I'm curious - why is your STBXW so very, very angry. Someone who would go to the destructive and childish lengths that she is doing has a tremendous amount of rage and anger in them.
BA
She's mad because FIB actually chose to divorce her.
FIB, this is really important my friend, because I'm picking up a truly nerve wracking vibe from your stbx.
You HAVE to have your lawyer settle the living arrangements and custody issues in as clear a detail as possible. She needs to have it spelled out what she can and cannot do, and what she can and cannot withhold from you.
I too would suggest, through your lawyer, that the two of you be mandated to attend co-parenting classes - again, if necessary. You shouldn't have to attend together of course, but I would seriously look in to asking the judge to order that it be done by both of you or risk being in contempt of court.
I don't trust her as far as...well, maybe she can be thrown pretty far....I just don't trust her.
Lord have mercy...you have to get away from this woman and soon. She is absolute concentrated hatred. I think she's been chugging on that nasty goo that was under the streets of New York in the Ghostbusters movie. Dang...
Stay you my friend. The best response is the truth, firmly, and unshaken. You can lash out against the truth, but you can never defeat it.
Strength - duh....and Honor- always.
Bill
Hey FIB,
Please don't mind me highjacking, but, Bill, could you - please, pretty please come visit my thread at "This train: rolling down a no-come-back track?"
Thanks so much,
poet
p.s. What in NEED is comments on my mediation and the WAS, not all the extraneous other stuff. Thanks.
PS...I had totally forgotten that Sunday was our anniversary, a far cry from 4 years ago. That was the 'last one'. FIB
Good job on forgetting.
I am wishing you much ease in moving forward in your new life as a single dad. It is a shame that your wife may never lose her bitterness. Much of that is probably because of her own parents, but it is much easier for her to blame you.
Are you still a Mets fan this year or have you gone to the dark side?
Thanks for the suggestion NCB. STBXW and I were mandated to a P.E.A.C.E. program early on during the start of the D process. Honestly, she violated nearly every principle taught in the class.
I don't believe we have any mandated post-D courses or classes here in NY. Again, I truly doubt that STBXW would be able to make any positive changes..even as small as your xW's...in the near future.
FIB
My X also violated every principle covered in the class I attended, then questioned whether I had gone when I didn't blindly go along with something ridiculous he wanted (I can't even remember what anymore.) I tend to agree with you Frank, some people, including your STBXW and my X, are incapable of seeing what they are doing as wrong. They have somehow cast themselves as the victims, and we are the villains. Trying to reason with them is an exercise in futility. Don't waste energy that could be better used enjoying your children!
fib,
Bunny, Gardener, Geronimo....I kid you not. That's the deal.
How would you like to try and go with your daughter on a 1 1/2 hour lunchtime field trip to the local library...and be painted as trying to limit your income?
FIB
Please don't misunderstand, I was (
probably inappropriately) responding to the "throw the yogurt in her face suggestion."
You have my support, prayers and admiration for enduring so much for your kids' sakes.
Sorry if I offended with my inappropriate attempt at lightening things up for a moment.
I apologize.
Gardener...no offense was ever taken. Sorry if that came across.
To Beginning Again: The main cause of my wife's anger, IMO, was basically the following:
- The State of NY requires one to find fault with the other person unless you file for a year of separation. It was my opinion, after spending 17 months here, reading Dr. Grey's book, reading the pdf on infidelity that I quoted way back and looking at my STBXW's pattern of behavior, that my marriage had become destructive, unhealthy and not salvageable. Therefore, I felt divorce was a better option than separation. My only choice then, was cruel and inhuman punishment. That requires writing 30 things to the state, quite a repugnant thing to do to the woman you wanted to spend a life with. I told her repetitively, as bworl knows, that I didn't want to do it and that separation was NOT an option for me. We either went to work on the marriage or I was done. She chose NOT to work on the marriage.
- Next, based on my STBXW's behavior, I filed for full custody. That sent her over the edge
- Nothing was in her name...the car, house, etc
- Prior to filing, in order to keep the house out of foreclosure and liens, I refinanced. I discussed this with her but she claims I did it behind her back. She went nuts. We had retained realtors and were going to put the house up for sale but the market went bad. I refinanced and got another HELOC (thank G-d). She has bitterly attacked me on this throughout but it has kept the house free, clear and out of foreclosure (of course, she doesn't see this and blames me for everything).
So, I am either a surgeon who takes care of sick people, was recently asked to be a candidate for the medical board and is the most hands on loving dad in NY (well, along with all the other great loving dads here)
OR
I am a lazy no good POS who limits their income so that they can go on their daughter's field trip, is vile, disgusting, a liar and hoodwinked her into thinking I was a good man and kept her in a marriage that was a lie; there was never any chemistry and I pushed her into the backseat of a car for a one night stand yada yada.
I'll let you all make your own decisions.
FIB
Thanks for laying it out FIB. What a shame that your situation had to spiral down into the status it is today. I know others have mentioned it, but I am amazed at how archaic NY divorce laws are and very thankful they don't apply to me.
Not only is your STBXW acting childish, but how can she consciously create such a toxic environment for your children to grow up in. She seems extremely self-centered and selfish to me.
BA
[quote=faithisbelieving]Bunny, Gardener, Geronimo....I kid you not. That's the deal.
How would you like to try and go with your daughter on a 1 1/2 hour lunchtime field trip to the local library...and be painted as trying to limit your income?
FIB [/quote
Frank, I was going to write after going thru the whole thread but won't recall enough of these wacky irritating details.
First, right on with the field trips. It's all about the kids. The property has been handled and the div is coming and you are surviving. She's terrified and that's not your problem. Oh, as for the time at school for the kids, well, Your wife will wear out first b/c it'll stress her more to be around you b/c the contrast is more apparent and her pathology is revealing itself more as time passes. And By the way, it's HER income that doesn't pay her for days off...too bad. She'll be the one "limiting her income" by going, whereas you'll be using a paid vacation day...oh well.
As for the carton of milk witholding, I admit I laughed out loud reading that b/c it's so pathetically goofy that she's spending so much energy on this tripe...OMG, honestly fib, it'll be funny in 10 years if you even remember it at all.
Then the other stuff she says/does... like the below the belt insult about you "limiting your income" by attending a field trip (as if she'd praise you for earning more but blowing off the kids' acitivities OR wouldn't be the first to complain about a missed visitation for your work) was completely vindictive of her. Hey - If she says that again, admit that she "knows a lot more about limiting income than [you] do about that." Then smirk and walk away! (Unless the kids are around... If they are there, then leave the smirk out, and tell her what an "expert" she is on limited income & limited education & potential & growth and um, limited on taking personal accountability and say it all with a respectful smile. There....that's better. Geez that chick needs some reality therapy...good God. SO she must be upset and all b/c her whole "retire at age 35" Plan did not work. Now what?!!?
Stay strong. Your life is about to get a whole lot better.
And with time, the kids will be alright Frank. NO, of course they're not going to be as good as they would be if the M had worked out. WE all get that. But you know,[i] in your sitch I can safely say -- your kids are going to be better off with you two divorced.[/i] And I can only pray for the day you find a real woman of substance & brains- who loves you, who "gets" you, sticks by you, and then Frank, then imagine how it'll be for them, when you let your kids see THAT....yeah, things are going to be a whole lot better for you soon. And as for your stbxw...who cares? As long as she doesn't hurt the kids, then the only question is "what xw?" All about you and your babes and being a family that someday will include new people who will also love your kids. Think about that too. A healthy woman in their life. Geez, What's that?
j-
what Bworl said. I don't trust her. She needs lots and lots of "feedback" from as many authoritative sources as possible. Especially authorities with the power to take from her. Don't they prohibit "parental alienation" there? It is a big deal here in Calif and you can LOSE custodial rights by bad mouthing the other parent even if what you say is true.... Kids do not need to hear it all just b/c we say "it 's the truth". It hurts them. Each parent is part of them and the same gender child very closely identifies with that parent until they're much older.
Bad mouthing the other parent gets under a kid's skin and does damage. The courts know this and try hard to get thru to the parents. Surely IN TIME, even your w will allow some of it to sink in. She'll see the pain in them when she's alone with them, and she won't always be able to blame you b/c it's too obvious, and even she will know that it will hurt them too. She may even say "we made some mistakes" and not say "Bad daddy is a bully"...etc.
ONE thing to recall about dating--is that the sooner she learns of you dating a significant other, the sooner she'll blame "the OW"...no kidding for the div, when talking to the kids. So keep them safe from that.
I am Looking forward to your new life Frank, and on your behalf I say, "bring it on".
j-
I was thinking of you and thought I'd stop by and say hi.
First of all, congrats on being asked about possibly being a canditate on the medical board.
Frank, you know who you are, what you are and so do the people closest to you. That's really all that matters. And most of all, your children know the kind of father you have been.
Who knows what demons drive your STBXW? Clearly, she has many.
Keep your eyes forward. Do not stray the course. I know, without any doubt, that better days are ahead for you.
You have grown, you have been tested, you have endured. And you will be ok, my friend. You will be ok.
Will respond 25.
STBXW is ratcheting up the torture. She yelled at me in the back yard so that the kids could overhear re: sale of the house:
-that I am keeping her in the dark
-what an a$$ I look like to everyone
-she's going to demand another $30K reduction in the list price
She is going to ram this sale down my throat. She goes behind my back and changes contractors schedules. She is calling the realtors DAILY to the point that they told me that they are not answering her calls. A friend of mine whose wife is a realtor, told me that he was thinking of buying my house as an investment since the price is so below what it is worth now.
Friday night, my night with the kids, I came home early. S9 had a scout meeting at 6:15P. I had previously asked to have dinner with the kids. She drove off with them. S9 is afraid of her. When I approach him to talk with him, he becomes afraid and wants to terminate the conversation, "Dad..no....mom might come upstairs."
Today, while cleaning up, she dumped dishes on my files and papers again, left a dirty cup on my half of the bathroom sink (I think S9 left it there), put my father's cadette portrait from WWII face down on the floor (he passed in '95) and then, humiliating, rode on the brand new bicycle I purchased for S9 and 'made him' ride the smaller kids bike that I bought to replace it. When I said that I would fill her tires with air and to let him ride, she outwardly refused saying , "S9 said I could ride it and I'm going to."
(sigh)
FIB
She is getting away with the crap, because YOU love your kids. She is using your love for them to abuse you. Sick woman Frank! Horrible mother. Horrible.
Will respond 25.
STBXW is ratcheting up the torture. She yelled at me in the back yard so that the kids could overhear re: sale of the house:
-that I am keeping her in the dark
-what an a$$ I look like to everyone
-she's going to demand another $30K reduction in the list price
She is going to ram this sale down my throat. She goes behind my back and changes contractors schedules. She is calling the realtors DAILY to the point that they told me that they are not answering her calls. A friend of mine whose wife is a realtor, told me that he was thinking of buying my house as an investment since the price is so below what it is worth now.
I know this is NOT easy. We all know this. I can't advise you exactly, but I do know that money is only so important and for whatever reason, she wants the house sold at any cost asap. Makes little sense. But you will earn more money & you'll pay your bills, and save some...and she won't. Oh well.
As for the rest of this, the only thing that matters at all (below) is how your son feels and copes with your w's behavior. I assume he looks forward to your time alone. Soon enough, you'll get it. In a better world, you could say something that would wake her up but you'd already have said it if it would work. Perhaps the child c can help...???? Any chance?? But her riding the bike, leaving a cup, turning over a pic, may not be directed at you nearly as much as you say. I think she's like the 2 y/o I saw today at another 2 y/o's party. They are "best friends" to the extent 2 toddlers can be. They don't fight. But at the birthday party when only one of them had presents to open, the other lost it and attacked the birthday girl, then ran off with some presents. Later on she came in "to apologize" 
but grabbed some cake, not mad at her friend so much as letting her "id" run wild and without filters, grabbing for fear that she'd get nothing..everyone else was bigger 
...she also needed a nap...
All I'm saying is that while it may be "hatred," for you, it also may unrelated to you directly and instead sounds like an animal in pain, who feels cornered. Never mind how she got there. She has nowhere to run...Please detach. You are making this even worse for yourself than it already is.
[color:#FF0000]I'm so sorry it's here but soon, you'll be past this. Can't wait.
((( )))
j[/color]
Friday night, my night with the kids, I came home early. S9 had a scout meeting at 6:15P. I had previously asked to have dinner with the kids. She drove off with them. S9 is afraid of her. When I approach him to talk with him, he becomes afraid and wants to terminate the conversation, "Dad..no....mom might come upstairs."
Today, while cleaning up, she dumped dishes on my files and papers again, left a dirty cup on my half of the bathroom sink (I think S9 left it there), put my father's cadette portrait from WWII face down on the floor (he passed in '95) and then, humiliating, rode on the brand new bicycle I purchased for S9 and 'made him' ride the smaller kids bike that I bought to replace it. When I said that I would fill her tires with air and to let him ride, she outwardly refused saying , "S9 said I could ride it and I'm going to."
(sigh)
FIB
Cursing: STBXW's atty's FIL passed away. Tomorrow is adjourned. Crap.
STBXW is now hounding my realtors. She calls them everyday to the point where they have stopped answering her calls. Today, she showed up unannounced at my realtor's office demanding to talk to her. She was out. She demanded that the asst. call her. She was hostile to her on the found and threatened her with her atty calling her. Recall that MY name is on the deed and the contract to sell is with me. I keep STBXW apprised of all showings, open houses, bids, etc. It is not enough. She must control this. I lost a contractor estimate yesterday to her rescheduling things behind my back. I think he spooked and never showed up.
I wrote a letter to my atty to discuss this and told my realtor to refer STBXW to my attorney or real estate atty.
To 25...thanks for the great input. I"m sure you will agree with me that STBXW will keep us BOTH in family court for the next 11 years.
FIB
This is all so sad to read.
If she is so worried about you doing things to limit your income why doesn't she STOP and THINK (novel concept, I know) how her actions cause such massive amounts of stress on a household. I mean what? Will she only be satisfied when you and your children have absolute nervous breakdowns or your immune systems become compromised from stress?
I have been trapped in the family court system in this "fine" state for 24 months. I don't have children so I can't begin to imagine your situation. Stay strong!
what citygirl said. FIB, I don't know what to say except I want to put armor on you so her arrows don't pierce through. She's not worth it but you know this.
honestly how can we advise you when we're not crazy? I mean, I don't even know her goal at this point. It's not in HER interest, so it's inexplicable--like a 2 y/o who needs a nap badly and had too much sugar. Can't reason with them. Can't spank them. You have to hope they crash and nap soon or that you can go into a quiet room and wait for them to collapse from their own weird burning out...
sorry buddy.
j-
Oh crap:
BurntAnd then finally, some positive, lolol
Good for herFIB
OMG,
FIB, the only thing I can say is look to the goal. Keep looking straight ahead...ugg!
I remember my mother and father battling for years in the courts in NY. My dad unemployed and not cleaning the house either....made out with several thousand dollars. My mom bascially paid him off, she was so deseperate for it to all end.
He in turn took us on a huge shopping spress with his new money... didn't learn till years later that it was just pay off money when I read the D degree.
NY state is a total mess with matters like these....
I would think that word is getting around Long Island about the catch a cheater show on WBLI.
Good deal with Anthony and Brook. Sometimes suspicions are wrong, but I dont fault her for checking up on him.
That was a great show when I first started watching it. Now it's just painful to watch. Too bad it wasn't around when I was going thru that mess.
More Hugs, FIB. I'm standing right up there with you.
poet
extremely painful to watch although I admit, on occasion, I laugh out loud at cheater's explanations when they are caught ON CAMERA and still lie. But the point is, someone we're seeing is in great pain, the worst they've probably ever felt, and we are...watching. Does this help anyone or anything? I guess if you hear an obvious lie and yet know you've heard it BEFORE in your own life, it could help you wake up. Beyond that, I feel like I"m watching a surgery on someone without anesthesia, knowing the outcome is fatal...
j
Stipulation signed. I am divorced. Frank
Congrats Frank!!!!!!!
Normally I wouldn't say that to someone who is officially D'd, but in your case it is truly fitting.
Here is to new beginnings, fresh starts, and infinite possibilities!!!
Awesome Frank!
When do you both start living in separate spaces?
I so wish that your post D interactions with your XW could be as easy as mine are. Pick your battles wisely.
Strength and Honor
Sorry for the label that you never wanted.
Happy that perhaps now you can begin to find peace in your life.
If you need anything, let me know.
Blessings,
Bill
Frank is free......
Hopefully everything else will move forward for you now with more peace and happiness.
Many bitter-sweet hugs sent your way...
What's the next step?
(Much-earned) peace to you.
(((((Frank)))). sorry to hear the news but hopefully peace will be forth coming.
kat
FinalityI had a dream last night. In my dream, STBXW showed up at the door and suddenly all her family came in. They were laughing, talking to me, patting me on the back and treating me as if nothing was wrong. I got fearful. I thought it was a trick: either the police were coming...or a 'revenue-er'. I snuck out and left.
First bad dream in a while.
I awoke and heated up the waffle iron and made S9 a homemade waffle. D6 had cereal. STBXW was showering upstairs. When she came down, I went up. Showered, shaved, put on my best suit and tie. The kids left on the bus and I greeted the fence people who came to repair the fence that had come down in those big storms weeks ago.
Cold here.
Wet.
Grey and dreary, befitting my last day being married. I drove to the court house and went thru security. The sheriff who screened me lightened my heart. He saw the Consumers Report mag with 'Best TV's' on the front and we chatted for 2 minutes. Nice..considering these dudes are pretty cold.
I went up to the sixth floor and stared out the window at the lake being whipped around. I have always come alone except for the one time that I thought I was going to trial. 'Anthony' came that time. STBXW has always had an army of family members surrounding her. Today...her aunt was with her. ???
My atty soon came out and we began to review the stip. The only one item requiring thought was how to divide Xmas vacation since STBXW would NOT give up a single one. We decided to split it in half. She will have the first half and I the latter, so, I will always have the kids for NYE and NYD. To avoid another 'fight', I had to let her atty write in that SHE can have access to my realtors, contractors, etc with regards to selling the house. She couldn't handle the loss of control of my running the sale since it is my name on the lease.
Finally, STBXW walked over, and, as usual, insulted me a few times. She lied twice to my L...said I refused a high bid on the house and also canceled one open house (complete lies).
Bleh.
We signed.
STBXW agreed to change from cruel and inhuman to constructive abandonment. Otherwise, we both would have to have an inquest and one by one I would have to review the more than thirty things I initially filed that she did. Now...all she has to do is say she withheld sex from me for one year.
At long last, we were called into the courtroom. An aging judge who looked like Martin Scorsese, then addressed the two of us:
I want to thank both of you for being able to settle this case without going to trial. I know this was difficult but had you not, it would have been left to me and, not knowing either of you, I would have to make decisions based on the law versus what is best for the two of you.
You both were fortunate to have two excellent attorneys. Believe me, they fought like cats and dogs for you. However, a settlement is like the story about the French restaurant and the delicatessen. You leave feeling full and a little while later you stop at the deli feeling hungry again. Two days later and at exactly the same time you will both feel like you lost something. That's usually a sign of a fair settlement.
There is usually several questions that I am required to ask but in view of all the work done I don't think that is necessary. Again, I want to thank you both for settling your issues outside the courtroom.
Unlike my friend trapt here, there were no prophetic words that left my lips.
There were no tears.
There were no goodbyes.
After all this time, I had no lines, admonitions, leers, looks or comments. I simply hugged my attorney, kissed her and thanked her....and left.
I don't know how to describe how I feel. Numb isn't it. Angry isn't it. Fear isn't it either. Perhaps, it's just an emptiness inside. Something died. I'm not sure. For sure, it's not love lost anymore. I think, if anything, it's once again, the impending loss of my kids.
I drove to my office and told my office manager, who has been aware of everything, that it was done and that I was going home. I met the kids off the bus. Drove S9 to religious school and then hung with D6. I took them to Chili's for dinner. I bought them cell phones on the way. Who knows even if XW will trash them or let them have them.
At home, I gave D6 one of the last baths that I will most likely give her. She is getting big enough to do this herself now but, she likes me to wash her hair. That will end now.
Finally, I learned that XW has rented a small mom/pop brick house on a small piece of property about 3 blocks away. I was somewhat envious because it would have been a perfect place for me. However, I have a house to sell. I stay with the sinking ship. The rental is $2100 per month without utilities. It will probably cost close to 3K per month. I will now be alone, in a 4 BR house on a 1/2 acre of land, without kids running around. The silence will be deafening.
So..to Bill...my longtime supporter...I wish I could shake your hand and thank you...to all of you. Jeff, frank_d, ford...a few men that kept me strong and focused.
To everyone else....'my women'....the other half...thanks so much. I can't type all the names. I did that once, around December '06 when I thought I had won back my wife. I typed out almost everyone of my supporters in alternating colors of red and green. Naive, of me. DonH knew better. He called it back then.
It's been a long journey. Part 2 of my life.....begins.
FIB
fib,
There are no words...
I admire your dignity and strength.
And I identify with
However, I have a house to sell. I stay with the sinking ship. The rental is $2100 per month without utilities. It will probably cost close to 3K per month. I will now be alone, in a 4 BR house on a 1/2 acre of land, without kids running around. The silence will be deafening.
Get out of the house as much as possible, mark it and make it your own as much as possible, blast your music and invite others over as often as possible.
Make one room, one section a sanctuary. Put your favorite, most comfortable, soothing, fond, things there. I have. It is sacred. It helps me cope...and heal.
Take good care of yourself.
Peace,
Gardener, thanks for your words of advise. I have no need for the wedding album or video. I was thinking that I could stay here without any emotional issues or ties. I"m not so sure now. STBXW is leaving a lot behind, so, eventually my move will be tough.
She seems quite happy, focused on school. Remember, that, we are four years out and 2 1/2 years post filing. It truly comes to a close within the next 2 weeks when she leaves. Both kids bedroom furniture is going with them (and I totally agree with that...they should be in their own beds).
If there is one thing I am most bitter about it's the treatment that we men receive. Working makes us less better parents? I don't think so. XW will have to work.
XW will take a hutch in the kitchen, her dresser and mirror, an area rug, china/crystal, coffee table, yada yada. She left many big ticket items behind which, I would have done too if I was the one leaving.
Hey...I keep the flat panel TV. LOL.
I'd be curious tho': would anyone feel free to post their feelings here/experiences in the immediate post-split period? Like Gardener did above: what did you do and how did you cope?
Thanks. FIB
Nearly 2 years out and I am trying to remake the house to get rid of his ghost. Things have come up here and there and with the focus being on the 4 kids, the house hasn't moved along quite as fast as I would have liked. Paint the walls a new color. change the furniture. I did buy all new sheets and a new cover for my bed. Things he has never touched. I am making the house all mine now.
Get out more and live your life more as you did before the marriage. Pick up on old interests. I actually made myself a bucket list, though I have no plans of dying soon. I am working on arranging a hot air balloon ride next month. Then I will look into the next thing. I thought I had to do the list with my kids, but I don't. It is MY list afterall.
kat
Hey FIB,
I can not offer too much advice. i got the hell out of dodge and only took my personal items with me. Bringing things along is was too painfull. I don't know how XW continues to live in the same house with items that surely bring her back....but hey they WASs are a different breed i think.
hang in there....sorry I can not be more helpful.
I'd be curious tho': would anyone feel free to post their feelings here/experiences in the immediate post-split period? Like Gardener did above: what did you do and how did you cope?
Thanks. FIB
FIB,
I was in a similar situation as you, without the open hostility though. And quite honestly, my immediate feeling were one of relief. Like a huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders. Not that I wanted to be divorced (at the time), however, at least now/then I had clarity.
Family home was listed for sale when we got divorced. XW moved out about three weeks later, however between separate spring break trips and work travel, there were only a few days post divorce that we were in the house together. Due to the state of the real estate market at the time, I ended up living there for almost a year and half before it finally sold. Unfortunately, because of keeping the house "staged" for showings, a lot of her stuff remained in the house, including some of her clothes in the master closet.
My advice? Enjoy the freedom. The quiet. The peace.
Let it refresh your soul.
And I'll bet you end up spending more time with your children than the agreement states. You heard it here first.
I wish you nothing but the best, my friend.
Strength and honor.
Frank...
I got rid of things piece by piece while I was still in the home
It felt good to leave to a new home
of ourse, every place was rented so it is a different sort of feeling
but
after long years
i now own my own house
it is fun making it mine
do what you can to claim your house back
start small
look at magazines and books, change things that you are apathetic about, like doorknobs or curtains
I remember feeling empty...like wind through an abandoned building...there were cobwebs and "things" left but they were all covered in dust...hollow I guess
I decided to go with that image and use it...so I cleaned...I started with a corner in my mind and cleaned it and then moved on
(I watched the movie Under the Tuscan Sun and that is how I felt inside...like that house...drafty and filled with useless things in need of some work and a good cleaning)
now I feel like home inside, warm and candles and cooking smells and love and laughter
you will feel that way too
Thanks Drew, fig, john, kat...
Tough night. My son burst in the door excited about the new rental he is about to go into. I may have been totally wrong. I thought S9 would have a rough time with this. Maybe not. I kept on a good poker face. D6, 7 on Saturday, made no comments. She was more excited about the cell phones I got for both of them.
I think what hurt the most tho', was, finding papers under the couch tonite re: travel plans to France. I am semi-fluent in French and had always planned to go there with the kids. STBXW is now taking French in school and apparently is 'trying' to beat me to the punch. It stings. A $2100/month rental sans utilities, a trip to France, catalogs for a new Nissan Altima while I am left with all the debt and, in two weeks, I will be paying child support on top of a mortgage.
Bleh.
Thought this was going to be easier.
FIB
Nothing is easy about this, Frank.
I know the double-edged sword when the kids seem ok - we SO want them to be ok, but there is a part of us that wishes they were "on our side," proof to the world and the ex (ex, now right? not STBXW...sorry, it was hard for me to transition, myself) that this is all so very wrong.
It is hard to share their happiness when we aren't a direct part of it.
But, you are. They can have happy moments with each of their parents BECAUSE you have worked so hard to do all that you can for them, BECAUSE you sacrificed so much to make sure that you are the best father possible.
Plan a trip to the Islands (can't think of which speaks French off-hand), take the kids swimming with dolphins, etc.
In short, keep your focus on you and your time with them - make plans. And let a little glimmer of gratitude in that they are safe, cared for and loved when they are with their mother (even though we all wish that our ex's were better parents - most seem to at least be trying their hardest to be as good as they can with those relationships, given the flaws they have).
(((Frank)))
btw...
about the quiet house. Think about getting a new pet...a cat? The kids would love it, too. And you'd be surprised about how it helps you, too.
Frank -
I agree with Drew in that I believe you will indeed get extra time with the kids.
Just a bit of advice - I know you are venting, and maybe you need to go through an anger phase about the whole D, but it will serve you well to not focus too much on the things that bug you. And dont let what you XW's life is now affect you.
Just keep being the great dad you are for your son and daughter. The knowlege and honor you will imprint on them is beyond value.
A $2100/month rental sans utilities, a trip to France, catalogs for a new Nissan Altima while I am left with all the debt and, in two weeks, I will be paying child support on top of a mortgage.
Her money won't last very long. It will be a hard crash.
By the way, France is a big country. I've seen it.
And the world is a big world. There's lots of places to go where they speak french.
There is nothing in France that beats the Greek islands... Kastelorizo, Patmos, Crete, etc etc... And you would have a tiny room to sleep in, in Athens, so you could go visit Parthenon with the kids... All we need to do is careful planning Frank...
When the kids are happy with the Xs, we get those feelings of being "low lifes" cause we wish they didnt. It IS human. I think everybody feels that way. As time goes by and things stabilise, these feelings will fade.
Frank, it wont be easy but you have been much worse and you did well. If money is a problem, focus on that. Keep your thinking drama-free.
Hugs
K
CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!! You got rid of the crazy witch!
I too will echo in with the conflict inside when our kids seem "ok" with the ex and, even harder, the significant other of the ex.
I still will not allow my ex's new husband near my home. I have shaken his hand only one time, and only then because I was challenged internally by reading of someone else's "higher road" experience on this board.
And yet, Frank...we know inside that we want our kids to be happy and comfortable whereever they are. Even with our ex.
Didn't frank_d hit the nail on the head with the comment that your ex will not be able to sustain the "disney Mom" role for long? And even if she does, while it will often grate inside, in the end anything that gives the kids positive experiences is ultimately a good thing.
There is nothing easy about this. There should be nothing easy about this. The most difficult part of your story is that it does certainly seem as though you bear the brunt of the burden, when it is your ex who stepped away from the marriage. I know it burns. I also know that if you allow time to do it's part, and if you fill your life with good things now, it will not burn so brightly forever.
Even now, post-divorce, it's important to stay the course. You have no idea what events will unfold in the coming months and years. Your ex's track record on stability is shaky at best. It's not so difficult to envision a scenario where you become a much more present part of your kids lives at some point.
Should that happen, they need to find that their Dad has continued to grow and strengthen. They need to have that rock in their life who has dealt with the wrongs, the pains, and the inequities, and has reached a point of peace in his life.
The "invincible summer." Remember that Frank?
Find it.
Blessings,
Bill
Now I know why it's been so hard to leave here. All I have to do is read the above. You all are so right.
I say to all here with certainty that I know that:
-I will be lonely in the ensuing weeks when my children leave
-the insults, laundry thrown on the floor and walking on eggshells is now going away
-there will be peace for me
-that my children love me and miss me when they are away
-there are good things coming my way
To Donna and Kerry....and Bill: it is so true that what really matters is that the children are happy and that the pressure they felt between their parents will dissolve. Sadly, last night, for the first time, my son said to me, "well, dad, you and mom will probably get back together in 2 years." He looked so distraught when I told him that it was not going to happen. He asked me why? Again...what do you say? I said that mommy and daddy were very unhappy together and that mommy deserves to be happy. So does daddy.
Is it a little boy thing....the jealousy? Is it normal? Is it expected? If you do have those feelings and you channel it appropriately, is that right or healthy? I don't know.
To Donna...we just lost our 17 year old cat and Sammy, our greyhound, had to be put to sleep last August. The kids lost both their beloved pets in a few months. And, as mundane as this must sound, XW will probably abandon their hamster. I will ask her to take it with her as I can't take care of it now.
Finally, Bill, I'm not sure how you could do that...shake OM's hand. I, too, have read those stories. I recall reading one story here where the ex-husband went on some sort of vacation with his XW and OM. I know how courageous Kerry has been with an OM who is several decades older than he.
Is it courage? Will I have to shake hands with bagelman if he becomes XW's new man?
Bleh.
Focus, I guess, is key right now. Focus on restarting my life. Focus on the kids when I have them. As all you have said above, focus on the happiness of my children, in, whatever form that may be.
My work begins.
Finally, today, at 9AM, I received a text from XW:
Aren't you supposed to pay me custody today?
My response?
Bleh.
FIB
Good memory..yes Bill, the invincible summer.
FIB
Kalni...GREECE!!!!!
But....let me know when the rioting is over. LOL. Big hugs.
FIB
Get a tattoo, name your car, or buy a t-shirt that reads: Intrepid
Cheers
I dont know if it is courage for having to talk with OM (old man) Ed. I had the big phone call early on with him to reassure myself that he was not some sort of pervert as I was most concerned about my daughter being around him. Nowdays when we see each other we just say "hi" and that is about as much as I want to talk to him.
Frank - I started watching some of "The Secret" last night. It is mostly BS that there is some secret that has been kept from people. Basically, the underlying message is one that I have always lived my life as - keep a positive mental attitude and good things will happen. Dwelling on bad thoughts and bad things happen. Optimism vs Pessimism. Your last post is much more optimistic and that attitude will be the way to go forward following the breakup of your family.
You might want to consider Thailand instead of Greece for a vacation.
Hang in there Frank...there are good times ahead for you, this I know!
>>>@FIB-"Is it courage? Will I have to shake hands with bagelman if he becomes XW's new man?"
Thanks for the laugh, even as you're picking yourself up!
Sunny
PS)Left message in the alt.
Jealousy, yes, normal. It is alien, unwanted by us.
I admit my humanity by still wanting to bash his girlfriend in the head with a bat (of course I won't, but the feeling is there). Shake her hand? I think not - I guess I am not that evolved, and I'm ok with that.
I am sorry about your DS...I remember getting the kids established with their own IC before the divorce was final, so they had someone outside of the fray to talk to. They have both adjusted well....even though my S14 has told me in confidence that he will never understand why his father made the decisions he did, and wishes he would at least live alone rather than with the girlfriend and her 4 kids.
I have come to look at it through my own familiar lens - there were many decisions that my own parents made that I didn't agree with or downright hated. It didn't make me love them any less, but I used it as a lesson learned.
So, what are your plans? With the kids?
More importantly, when you are on your own?
I'm surprised that I have had to shake myself up a bit (so easy to get into a rut and just sit around and do nothing) - so I went to meetup and found a book club and an artist group for figure drawing, might do a hike in the near future.
Something on your bucket list?
btw - you might want to set up an automatic transfer for the funds. You don't want texts like that on a regular basis.
Frank...you can take me and my kids to France!!!
of course the kidlets are excited...it is something new
Cori's daughter still gets excited to see her unmedicated bi-polar, compulsive liar, drug addict mother every 3rd weekend
she is 7 and knows her mom lies about everything
but
she still loves her
because no matter how f'ed up, she is still her mom
doesn't mean she doesn't love me
wish for your wife to be a great mother
expect her to suck assets
prepare for that
bworl is right
now is when the work begins in earnest
because you have time to focus on YOU
are you sure you can't keep the hamster...just drop in some food pellets, make sure it has water and clean it's cage with the kids when they come?
It might be nice for them to have hamsterbuddy at their house with you
Franbk dont worry, we'll start our "own" riots if current ones are done-LOLOLOL
Seriously,the $ is up again, good time to visit. Riots are help only on scheduled times...LOL
Hey FIBs, I remember when I got my apartment and the girls were so excited. Anything new is cool.
But earlier this spring I was walking D7 back to the house -- I don't say "her house" -- and I asked D7 if she liked the apartment.
She said "I thought it was great at first. But I just want you to move home."
Kids put on brave faces too. They are hurting.
Thanks all. Great posts.
Game plan:
1) XW plans to be out by June 1. She is now asking for things NOT on the Schedule A (things desired in the house). She wants the backyard furniture and now she wants the kitchen table on top of the hutch in the kitchen. I have to say no. I told her that if I move into an apt. she can have the outdoor furniture otherwise I want some backyard comfort until the house sells. There is also a fold out kitchen table in the basement with 4 chairs. The kitchen can't look bare before being sold.
2) Going back to working out. I had returned to running 5 miles when this started out. My weight is still way down but I have to return to a good pattern which will be easier (sadly) when the kids leave.
3) Clean up the house. Get rid of reminders. She can have wedding videos, albums etc. Once a relationship is over for me, I lose interest in keeping any of that stuff.
4) Look for new work, bolster the income, get out of the hole
5) Dating again.
6) Resume my bagpipes
7) Keep the house in shape for sale.
8) New interests. I was thinking of maybe starting bicycling...see if there is a men's group around to take up bicycling.
Funny, now, how XW seems 'friendly' in texts and emails, even now talks on a limited basis on the phone. However, I fully expect to find myself in and out of family court by repetitive motions.
I'm doing better. I have processed the fact that, unless beaten, broken and bruised, a man does not get custody of the kids here. Therefore, it is the cross that we men bear in that women get custodianship and men get less time. I must work it. I bought cell phones for the kids. D7 is now texting me and sending me pix of herself. S9 is completely under the thumb of XW...afraid of her for now, afraid to do things that will annoy her.
Finally, XW asked me to cooperate with regards to renewing the kid's passports. She apparently is planning to take the kids to France, something I've always wanted to do. It hurts, but, I'll survive.
FIB
CTH....understood. The kids, I think, are still in a state of shock here. Only time will tell. My job is simply to be the best dad I can and be available to them. I am hoping that, being around the corner, she will 'dump' them on me at every chance.
Funny. I once prayed to stay a family. Now, I hope she meets someone with a big......uh...oh....uh...wallet.
FIB
Frank...she had her opportunity to ask for things and she was pretty nasty about everything.
She doesn't get ANYTHING not specified. She only leaves with what you have been court ordered to provide for her
if she takes extra she could make a case that you weren't following the divorce paperwork before so she ASSUMED that xyz...
don't even open that door a crack
if you are just around the block, I am sure there will be ample opportunity to see the kids.
And
it is amazing to me that she has the cash to go to France...I can barely afford the movies!!!
Nice goals, fib. But aren't these two at counter-purposes?
"5) Dating again.
6) Resume my bagpipes"
lol
Give her "nada", "tipota" Frank, with a smile...
Nice goals, fib. But aren't these two at counter-purposes?
"5) Dating again.
6) Resume my bagpipes"
lol
We have a winner!
Today's
Belly-Laugh-Of-The-Day Award!
OK, I must be the only one who loves bagpipes (I'm an Irish girl)!
I will never forget the band of bands marching over and down the mountain at Hunter at the Celtic Festival...
Couple the bagpipes with some hot babes doing the hornpipe and it's a win-win!
Do it in a kilt and I'll be there!
I have two kilts...but...haven't worn them in a bit due to this whole mess. I hope to get back into my music again after XWD (ex wife departure).
Yeah...not sure where XW will get the funds for all this. I got left holding all the debt. She has a new house rental (had to be cosigned by her parents I'll bet), brochures for a new Nissan Altima, travel research for France.....
Unless there is a KerryK sugar daddy out there or another dude with bucks. XW was never great with money and if we couldn't afford things she could 'charge it'.
No jokes, but, I have a set of large pipes and small pipes. The large ones are the Great Highland Pipes. These are the ones you see in parades. Mine are Kintails:
Kintail bagpipesThen, my small pipes, Dhuan Fireside pipes, can be played indoors without scaring your spouse, or, hmmm, future GF away?
Fireside bagpipesAs for the kilt, all I can say is St. Patty's day in March is usually FREEZING and, IMO, men weren't constructed to wear a dress in winter.
FIB
[/quote]I am hoping that, being around the corner, she will 'dump' them on me at every chance.[quote]
FIB,
I have read your posts here and have to agree that NY really fails at divorce law. Archaic actually. Anyway, my son and X just signed D papers. Their D went smoothly as they were only married Six years and did not have many assets. They do have Twin sons with one being Autistic. One of the reasons my son left is that W liked to party and was never home so son was mother and father to the boys. They have joint legal physical custody. my sons contributes everything( and I mean everything)they need. The school even calls him before they call her as they know how she is.
XW calls him constantly on her days with them asking him to take them which he readily agrees to because he knows that it is the only chance they have for a normal structured life. Heck, he even calls her and asks to take them and she jumps on it.
Maybe XW will do the same once reality hits and she is taking care of them by herself with out you there and she wants to live the single life (like my DIL did while married and still continues to do so.) Children put a damper on socializing all the time.
Hopefully this would be the case for you to be able to be with your children more because it seems, for the children, their life will be a lot more structured,calm, and peaceful if they are with you right now.
Keeping you in my prayers
JAK
JoJo...thank you for coming into my thread and leaving your thoughts and prayers.
We've all been children at one point in our lives and all of us know what scared us...what made us happy...what made us sad. So many of us recall times we wished a parent had a catch with us, or took us some place that we had so much fun, or brushed our brow when we had fever.....
For the life of me, I can't understand why so many spouse's who brought children into the world, fail to see the importance that two parents play in the life of a child. The screaming, pawn playing, denigration of the other parent.....why?
Why?
Since this all started, I have met several women who were divorced, one of whom sat on an airplane flight next me. Most were burned pretty badly by a cheating husband. Yet, all of them pushed their kids to be with their father....gave instructions, updates, schedules to the fathers...realized that, in spite of how they treated them, recognized the importance of the father, etc.
That..is courage.
So JoJo, I am committed to stay a stabilizing and loving father in the lives of my children. I'm sure that they can see that I don't lose my temper against XW, nor call her names in front of them, etc. XW has a busy life schedule ahead of her and, I hope, as is the case with her son, finds me to be a cheaper babysitter.
FIB
Do you have right of first refusal when she does need a sitter? We have that written into the agreement if the kids need supervision for more than 3 hours.
Hey FIB, just stopping by to say hi and see how you are doing.
Those are great goals, my friend. Since I have seen you in person, I know for a fact that you would look wonderful in a kilt. Just sayin'. LOL!
Biking is wonderful. I love it. Look for a club or just go find a path. You'll be getting out there and meeting like-minded people - men and women.
As for the whys about your wife. You know better than to ask those questions, don't you? Those are questions that cannot be answered so they are just taking up your headspace.
I am one of those women who do whatever I can to maintain the relationship between my h and my son. I cannot imagine being any other way.
Just continue to be the wonderful dad you have always been. Take whatever extra time comes your way. Children see and understand things way more than we give them credit for sometimes. Be sure to continue not saying anything negative about your X to them. She is, not matter what, their mother.
I know how heartbroken you are about this. I know it is the children that bothers you most. I promise you, they will be ok. They will.
You have set an amazing example for them. They take it all in FIB. You have shown them how to act with dignity, with courage and strength and honor. Now you must show them how to navigate through difficult times in life and come out ok on the other side. If you are ok, then they will feel safe and secure.
I pray that your X finds her way to being the kind of mother your children deserve. I pray that she realizes that they are young for only a little while. I pray that she begins to do the right thing by them and by you, their father.
And most of all, I pray for you, my friend. That you may find peace and fulfillment and happiness. I pray that you come to realize that all things happen for a reason and that this journey was a necessary and important one.
So, get out those bagpipes and your bicycle. Get out into the world and find your peace, FIB. Find your happiness. It's out there, you'll see.
[/quote]So JoJo, I am committed to stay a stabilizing and loving father in the lives of my children. I'm sure that they can see that I don't lose my temper against XW, nor call her names in front of them, etc. XW has a busy life schedule ahead of her and, I hope, as is the case with her son, finds me to be a cheaper babysitter.
[quote]
I hope it is the case for you FIB.
Of course the perfect ending would be if you were able to co-parent together without conflict and that you were able to see your children with out XW "handing" them off to you all of the time.
I have to say that my son is an EXCELLENT father and does not talk bad of XW to the children or anyone else for that matter except his parents when he is frustrated.
Unfortunately it is not the case with XW.
JAK
FIB,
I just read what Brooklyn posted and it was an inspiring post to you and says everything that needed to be said. Well versed Brooklyn.
Take care
JAK
Hey, FIB!! I'm sorry I haven't written sooner. As always, I have been following along w/ your journey. I just didn't feel that I could add anything to what has already been said to you. I am so sorry that you have had to go through all that you have. But, I am hopeful that you are finally going to have some peace in your life.
Continue to hold your head up.
Best Wishes,
Deb
I agree JoJo. And Brooklyn, you also know that I have the utmost respect for you, even tho' you never scheduled the donut toss. LOL.
XW is moving stuff to her new apt. Although she has been mostly 'fair', stupid little annoying things are being taken. I've called her on a couple of small things and she brought one back. Just stupid stuff and not worth mentioning here.
I went to son's Living Museum at school today. He was Patrick Henry. XW went there, tight jeans and all.
FIB
Apparently XW is graduating from college. She walked into the house last night with the kids at 10PM wearing her graduation gown.
LOL.
Think she was trying to tell me something???? Usually you take it off after the ceremony is over.
8AM this morning:
Where's my check? How are you going to be paying me?
I now will be hounded. My buddy says that mailing the check by registered mail can alter certain behaviors.
FIB
Hey Frank..
Direct deposit of her alimony and support check does wonders in stopping complaints and interactions with your former spouse. Have her provide her banking information, see if your payroll can accommodate direct deposit or worst case, mailing out her check on a consistent basis.
Anticipate, then do what it takes to minimize contact. It's a win/win for both of you.
*hugs*
I agree with Gypsy. Since my XW uses the same bank as myself, I have an automatic transfer each month from my account to hers for child support. And I manually transfer online between accounts for variable expenses related to kids lessons.
Oh FIB, who said I am not going to schedule the donut toss? LOL!
I know you don't want the kids to be moving, but, I cannot wait for her to be gone. Offer still stands, give me one hour with her - pretty please - hee hee!
And I agree with everyone, whatever you have to do to limit contact and not have to deal with her, especially regarding money, you need to do.
Hang in there, my friend.
Hey my friend. Been four years now. I joined here in May 06 and "met" you that July. Four years ago I moved out of my house to give her "space" - four years lost...
But life goes on. Good list you came up with earlier but don't forget to focus on your terms as a man. Unfortunately, you and I have kids so we never stop seeing the Ex and things are always cold at best - often worse - and missing the kids.
So remember your journey and what you stand for. Never compromise your integrity. Always stay the high road.
As I know you will.
stupid little annoying things are being taken. I've called her on a couple of small things and she brought one back. Just stupid stuff and not worth mentioning
Those things are what life really is all about. A life built.
You can and will build another.
Strength and Honor.
Jeff, my friend, good to see you, if you know what I mean.
XW is 'nesting'. Happy...removing things from the house. The rooms are becoming barer. My son's room is virtually empty except for a handful of things. Pots and pans were split. Pictures are coming down. I've been trying to scan as many of the framed photos on the wall as possible before they are gone. I've requested that she take them last. It's impossible to keep inventory on a life. I'm sure there will be some things taken out that I am not aware of.
Simply observations. It's taken so long. Four years post bomb to get to this point. It still, some days, is sort of surreal. I know it is going to hit hard when the kids move. Again, this is NOT about XW or missing her. It's about a life, children, etc.
By our stip, I will have Memorial Day weekend, the first time I have them full time for a whole weekend. XW will then want to start the alternating the following weekend.
And that's it for now. The house is still up for sale. No buyers as yet.
FIB
HOLY CRAP!!! XW BROUGHT ME BACK A CUP OF COFFEE FROM D&D THIS AM.
?????????????
FIB
Uhh... maybe being considerate is more productive than working against you?
Maybe she's buttering you up?
Maybe she's relieved and doesn't have to be vicious anymore?
The concept of no expectations, no intentions, no assumptions probably works.
Actions over time speak louder than words.
I'd say she's just not feeling vindictive anymore since she got what she wanted and now it's just a matter of days before she's out of there.
Careful... did it taste "bitter"?
That's what I'm thinking Sandy. Should have spilled it out. Frank
Awesome turn of events Frank!
Mutual kindness will make it so much easier for both of you as you move forward.
911 Frank, call, now, that you are still concious!!!
Frank,
We can all only hope that at some point your ex reaches a point of releasing some of the hostility towards you. I'm sure none of us are optimistic, but hey, a cup of coffee that she bought on her own is a heck of alot better than another verbal slam.
Enjoy the long weekend with the kids. Make it the first of your new life with them - maybe something special to recognize the time together and what the future has in store for the three of you.
I was glad to hear about your conversation with Deb this weekend. Probably better that you called her because I'm hip deep in getting my own house ready for selling. Won't be long Frank and you'll be paving a new road that is totally of your choosing, no longer subject to your ex's attacks.
Tim (ndsmhlp) recently mentioned something in a fb post to Deb about still wanting wings and beer with me sometime in the future. I think several of the guys from here who have been through these wars owe it to themselves to find a way to make something like that happen at some point down the road.
And for what it's worth...there is little that is more masculine than a man who holds his tongue for the sake of his children. I understand how incredibly difficult it must be, so know that you are blessing your children each time you do so.
Blessings,
Bill
Hey Frank,
I know that your son is a cub scout, but is your daughter in the girl scouts? I had a great time with my daughter at girl scout camp this last weekend and I was one of only two guys among about what seemed like 300 mothers and daughters. A very estrogen rich environment! And it is interesting to observe the differences between the 2 organizations.
HOLY CRAP!!! XW BROUGHT ME BACK A CUP OF COFFEE FROM D&D THIS AM.
Hopefully there will be more kindness (cough) rather than mean and vindictive now!
Sounds familiar...
cire
Frank, maybe now that she has what she wants, she can be a little nicer to you. That is my hope anyway. But, I dont care about her. I care about you.
I wish so much that there was something I could say to ease the pain you are feeling regarding the children.
I can still remember when my father and I (there were 4 children) would have our Daddy and me days. I got to pick whatever I wanted to do with him and he would do it, no matter what. Oh, it was Heaven.
Make new memories with them, Frank. Sweet, fun, wonderful memories that they can take with them throughout their lifetime. And they will, Frank. They will.
I know this is not the life you thought you were going to have, not the life you wanted. But, there is a whole world out there and it's waiting for you.
You will be ok, my friend. And so will your children. After all, they have you for a father.
Thanks all. I remember reading stories of women putting ExLax in their XH's coffee. Well, no bathroom trips for me. Perhaps the coffee was safe.
The house is really thinning out. As you will all probably agree, it wasn't worth dragging out the divorce or fighting over material things. Although XW is leaving some big pieces, a lot of good small pieces are gone. An 8x10 area rug from Pottery barn, a beautiful wood coat rack, the coffee table in the family room, S9's Xbox system, a huge painting over the mantle; both kids BR furniture is going. One set was hers coming into the marriage. S9's was a beautiful solid wood set from PB also. The children deserve to be in their beds. I will suffer with finding an Ikea replacement. We have allowed the children to have input on what small things stay with each parent. The walk in closet is now empty of all her clothes. She has the MBR this week for the last time. My time on the couch is rapidly coming to a close.
XW is communicating with me now without malice. However, strictly on what goes and what stays in the house. She told me that she is going to schedule an appt with the therapist to help the kids adjust. I agreed. She told me that she is planning ON TAKING THE KIDS WITH HER TO THE SALON! (kids will be bored out of their gourd). I told her that I will be a much cheaper babysitter and, that,since she works on Saturdays, she is more than welcome to leave them with me on her Saturday...at least for part of the day.
By stipulation, Memorial Day Weekend is my first full entire weekend with them. Wow. However, afterward, by XW's request, weekends will now be alternated.
Finally, I will now enter the final phase which is going to be financially difficult. Full child support will kick in next week. While I am now alone, and paying the mortgage, I will be squeezed horribly. A bidder on the house has returned and they are having a contractor look at it today. As much as I would like to hang in the house by myself, the quicker it sells, the earlier I will able to begin working to become financially solvent.
Life, as I know it, is coming to an abrupt halt and change. This...is the time that, 4 years ago, the thought of this moment caused crushing chest pain, nightmares and waking up in a cold sweat. I can handle it now, having been through this like others before me.
Ya know...I look at people like Jeff223 above...and others people don't know from the past like DonH. Even bworl above, whose XW literally just punched out and ejected. All, divorced, closed, done within months. Four years for me post bomb.
Four years.
FIB
PS...on the phone this morning, XW reminded me that "I tried to take the kids away from her."
Sigh.
Did I say to her, "well, you were boinking younger men...had a nervous breakdown...was taking three medications...and told me on more than 2 occasions that you were unable to care for them" ??
No.
XW, I"m not going back there. That's over. This is part II. Will speak to you later.
FIB
FIB -
Just a tip re: refurnishing. Check out Craigslist and/or local consignment furniture shops. I've found great deals in both places.
Ellie
"a lot of good small pieces are gone. An 8x10 area rug from Pottery barn, a beautiful wood coat rack, the coffee table in the family room, S9's Xbox system, a huge painting over the mantle; both kids BR furniture is going. One set was hers coming into the marriage. S9's was a beautiful solid wood set from PB also. The children deserve to be in their beds. I will suffer with finding an Ikea replacement. We have allowed the children to have input on what small things stay with each parent."
All just stuff man, not important, your memories are what give them value. Since moving out, I have found I don't miss the stuff, nor the house which is just a shell for this stuff as much as I thought I would. Hopefully you will find the same.
The kids adjust to new stuff well, make it an adventure and a game for them. Wow, look at this new stuff! They won't care if it's from Ikea, pottery barn, or target, etc.
New days and new things, you'll get through it, and find a smile from time to time too, I am confident in that for you.
expensive doesn't always equal best
I got doc martins for $10 one time
I got little wallpaper ballerinas for Finn's room for $4
my mom drew me my favorite coloring book ever
and
remember Joseph's coat of many colors
do not mourn the loss of what you had
celebrate the opportunity to start anew
Stuff FIB,
While not in your shoes...I was kinda sort of once, and it really is just stuff. Even the highly sentimental stuff is just used as a memory triggger and the memories are the importnat parts.
Iwant is right, it can be replaced you can even do it from Salvation Army, some damn good deals there when you are poor.
I will suffer with finding an Ikea replacement.
You big drama queen...Look FIB one day, your going to realize that YOU determine how your day is going to go, usually first thing in the morning. : )
I had opposite feelings during the separation and D - I wanted my wife to take as much stuff as possible from my home. We had too much clutter that she bought over the years. There is still stuff to garage sale/craigslist, but I am considering keeping her bike to give to the next special lady. I bought and tricked it out for her right before she went bad on me and she only rode it once so it is still in new condition.
Navin Johnson: Well I'm gonna to go then. And I don't need any of this. I don't need this stuff, and I don't need you. I don't need anything except this.
picks up an ashtray
Navin Johnson: And that's it and that's the only thing I need, is this. I don't need this or this. Just this ashtray. And this paddle game, the ashtray and the paddle game and that's all I need. And this remote control. The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that's all I need. And these matches. The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control and the paddle ball. And this lamp. The ashtray, this paddle game and the remote control and the lamp and that's all I need. And that's all I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one - I need this. The paddle game, and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches, for sure. And this. And that's all I need. The ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, this magazine and the chair.
walking outside
Navin Johnson: And I don't need one other thing, except my dog.
dog barks
Navin Johnson: I don't need my dog.
I love the Jerk...I do pieces of that so much that my students have all started in with it too
i LOVE Salvation Army and Good Will and Craig's List and garage sales....
plus I know I can LIVE in it if I didn't pay a billion dollars for it...I don't feel bad when koolaid gets spilled on it or the fabric gets painted on or the dog pees on it or the kids jump on it
live FIB...LIVE
Hey, sent me the in Fb the names of the kids. I will send you 2 Kalni's original paintings for their rooms... !!!
(give me colors and preferences)
K
Awww...Kalni. That is sweet. I would pay for anything re: materials and shipping.
You're right Jack...I re-read that line I wrote and it IS drama queen BS. I retroactively erase it.
Officially, today, my kids moved out. XW still has some loose stuff to pick up and has offered to help clean the house. I got a SECOND cup of coffee this morning.
There is only 4 weeks of school and, to my surprise, XW agreed to drive them back to the house in the morning to keep their school bus pickup 'routine' until school ends. I've done all I can to prep my kids:
- got them cell phones and told them they can call me anytime
- got them kids safe email addresses and taught them how to use it
- tried to tell them that it is OK to let their feelings be known
S9 is afraid of his mom but he DOES love her. D7 has cajones and is not afraid to call me or tell her mom if she wants to go with me in the car, etc.
So that's it. To Jack, I guess I could sit here and type 'facts' and say, "whoa is me. I am alone in a big house without my kids and family." But, I know you'd kick my 'A'. There definitely is a 'peace' about the thought of now arriving home and having no more eggshells to step on on the ground.
It's over, finally.
Or...it's just begun.
FIB
PS..to fig et al, I really only would have fought about 2 things: the flat panel TV (ROFLMAO) and the bedroom set. A female friend of mine said that I should ditch it because 'no woman would ever want to be in that bed.' It's a beautiful brass bed. How bout if I flip the mattress and get a new comforter set? LOLOL.
Um, in a word, FIB, no - on the flipping of the mattress and new comforter.
New life, my friend. New mattress. LOL!
I hear IKEA has some great deals. Sorry, I couldnt resist.
I know you are worried about your kids, but, they may just surprise you. You gave them the tools. Trust that.
Praying that your ex puts those wonderful children first in the future.
Praying for you that you look forward towards your new beginning with some small bit of anticipation.
Coffee and donuts are on me, Frank. Let me know when.
Yeah, women can't stand recycled crap left over from previous women. ICK!!
How come guys don't get that?
Not all women. My stbx had no trouble finding a woman with no qualms about occupying my former space in our bed. (He did get a new comforter tho... and he still has the throw blanket on it that I crocheted!!)
My last girl friend did not seem to mind, but I never mentioned it.
If you think about it, when you stay in a hotel, you are sleeping on a mattress that has been used by others for things other than sleeping.
And in the first year or two of my marriage, we slept in the bed that my grandmother most likely used to concieve my mother. I never thought much about it.
Hypothetical question...
When it comes time for a man and a woman to perform the "Rites of Venus" for the first time, is it best to visit the woman's or the man's home court?
Hmmm, good question. Wasn't ever an issue when I was in college. Now that I'm single again, the only guy I've dated, I went to his place (had travelled to his town - long story).
It was good for me - nice to be somewhere different, in the new guy's space. BUT - he was a major slob, I didn't mind at all but most women would have been turned off. If a guy's space isn't really clean, should go to the girl's house.
Plus - to tell you the truth - I snooped at his place while he was at work. (In my defense, I was just trying to make sure he wasn't an ax murderer). Found a few things he probably wouldn't have wanted me to see.
So - if you have anything to hide, or you're a lousy housekeeper - go to their place!
Rites of Venus? It's been so long I'd imagine it would be the Power of Vesuvius.
With a teenage daughter 24/7, the home is a sanctuary, almost too personal. Could not imagine having rites or powers here. Maybe the backseat of a car (not) or weekend getaway.
Hey...my ex gave thepoor baby drug dealer MY engagement ring...that he stole back from me...and SHE KNEW ABOUT IT and was PROUD of it...
oh well
if she wanted a fakeass ring that turned her finger green, I guess she was more than welcome to it...at least she took the ex with her!!!
I got a new bed...tempurpedic....the bed of the gods...
I would have arm wrestled her for the flat screen tv though!!!!
now you can clean the house with new cleaners (new scent...scent is our strongest memory trigger....pick cleaners that are wonderful so you associate that new scent with new freedom...don't laugh, it's the best trick EVER) light some new candles, buy yourself a new CD of music you like...blast it...eat your favorite food at the table or sprawled out nekkid on the couch
reclaim your house
Great stuff. Honestly, if the next woman wanted a little 'Mt Vesuvius at my place, that would be fine by me. I will change up the bedding, that's for SURE.
And.....this afternoon:
D7 Text: I'm at my new house.
Me: Way to D7. Isn't it fun?
D7 Text: Yes
Me: Good girl. daddy is happy that you like your new home
D7: Daddy, is it true that you don't want to be with me anymore?
CRUSHED. WHAT THE?
Me: Who said that?
D7: S9
I was reeling when she texted this all. S9 needs a talking to. I have them this Memorial weekend and I will straighten this out. If my daughter had said 'mom'....well....she didn't so I can't comment. FIB
Did you call her right then and there on the phone you were texting her on? I am sure that she is just trying to test you, though......but better to nip it in the bud.
I HATE texting....
Hey Frank..
It's hard to be prepared for such a question from your child which rocks you to your core... bringing up your greatest fears... looking for who said such a thing.
Yet.. it's wonderful that your daughter was able to be forthright. Despite of your personal concerns were you able to answer her question.. reassure her of your feelings.. make her feel safe.
Single parenting makes jugglers of us all.
*hugs*
Hey Frank --Actually I think that response from D7 and S9 is a pretty common one..A lot of what they are experiencing right now inside is being withheld..everybody says that kids are resilient and they'll be fine..that's true, but it takes time and they need to get their emotions and fears out..as good as they may look, their world is being rocked right now and they are probably very scared, especially S9 as he understands bits and pieces. Honestly, it would help if your XW could reassure them that this is all between mommy and daddy. As long as she's buying coffee, maybe she could do her kids a solid and make them understand that they have a great father that loves them very much and will always be there for them and would take them in his home in a second if NY state would have given him a shot..
You know how my sitch went down and how my ex checked out on the kids..my kids all had the exact same reaction about her..I kept telling them how much their mom loves them..believe me, it wasn't easy as she sees them maybe 4 hours a week and has never asked for even a minute more..every kid deserves two parents..deserves to know that they are loved by both. No matter how trivial matters become between divorcing parents, that should never trickle down to the kids..it will only hurt them..I hope your XW can see that, she is in position to make a huge difference. It was sometimes very difficult for me to say those words to the kids, but I am so glad that I did. It helped THEM, and that's what's important.
Here's hoping you have a great 3 day weekend!
Strength and Honor..it never gets old..
Mules
FIB, I hope you are having a wonderful weekend w/ the kids! deb
To All: I think it was a blessing that the first major holiday went to me. I had them thru Monday night and it was WONDERFUL. However, there are always 2 sides to the coin. I will get them tonite and tomorrow for dinner then a long stretch without them. Almost 6 days.
As to the issue above, I called XW and explained and she actually DID help to iron this out with S9. We had a long talk and actually had a discussion (knowingly) on speakerphone while they were with XW.
Now..not sure I understand the dynamic of the following:
On Saturday, I had the locks changed. XW went nuts. She actually drove by on Saturday, unannounced, which bothered me but I said nothing for now. I let her in to get some things out and she started SCREAMING at me:
-that I was making this difficult
-that something is up and I am probably going to take the house off the market (not...legally I can't anyway)
-that she has a financial interest in the house and she was going to call her attorney (oh geez, here we go again)
She called me back soon after and started screaming at me again.
I hung up.
The following texts:
XW: Hanging up on me and still refusing me to have a voice will never help us to get to a better place. In fact, the FIB way is what destroyed us.
Me: Won't be screamed at again...the XW way
XW: That's what one has to do to be heard amongst the FIB clan to try and be heard. You never knew me at all
Me: You're right...never knew the real you
XW: What a shame. You lost out on the best there is.
Me: So did you XW
Ugh. I realized that that was turning into a tit for tat.
Ironically, XW has her own 3 BR house now. I don't have the key to it. The house is in my name and she vacated. So, when I change the locks, BAM: I'm an a$$hole again.
I feel so much safer and secure tho'. I don't think it's right after she moves out that she can have free access to my home where I live.
So, over the weekend:
-we had a another little family BD party for D7 at my sis's
-S9 had two sleepovers, one at his friends and one over my house
-we hung at my sister's pool one afternoon
-we saw Shrek 4
-S9 played in his All Star game
-we shot mini golf and later have a huge baseball game in our friend's backyard
-I replaced and setup a new Xbox system for him.
I will most likely try one of the online dating services next. I am NOT a bar person and I REFUSE to hang out at one of the steak restaurant bars on Thursday nights and line myself up as a target.
Transitions.
Mulesqb....amazing to see you here and thanks. Feel free to help me navigate thru this new period of early divorce.
FIB
Hey FIB..
Changing the locks created a sanctuary, safe place for me and was wholly appropriate.
Next time she goes off on you do the "Uh huh", "Yeah", "I can see how you'd feel that way." Of course, I'm still not that good when I get intimidated, fell at fault when talking to the former spouse. But heck, I just keep trying.
It's great to hear what a wonderful weekend you had with the kids. You're the dad.
*hugs*
Thanks Gypsy. For all those following, I recall when Jeff223 said to me a coupla years ago to envision this moment. He was right. It was peaceful without her. FIB
let her storm blow
you are safe in your changed-lock house!!!
she is the big bad wolf and you have a house of bricks
glad yoru weekend was peaceful and fun
relax and let your kids relax too
It sounds like you had a good holiday weekend.
What do you have planned for summer vacation with your kids?
As for the online dating...match.com has worked well for me. I usually exchange emails quite a bit before ever suggesting we meet. Have patience and meet many of them and eventually you will find one who lights your fire and is compatible with you.
Kerry...sounds like a plan.
The house being up for sale and the financial issues are probably going to limit any vacation. However, the kids are in summer day camp; S9 want's to play in a summer baseball travelling league and we have lots of pools around. A big summer vacay will probably have to wait for next summer. This summer, perhaps, short weekend or day trips will have to do.
FIB
Ironically, XW has her own 3 BR house now. I don't have the key to it. The house is in my name and she vacated. So, when I change the locks, BAM: I'm an a$$hole again.
My X tried that too, about 2 years after after he had moved out he wanted a key to the house because it was on the market and his name was still on it.
X: Give me a key, this is my house as much as it is yours.
Me: No
X: My name is on it, I demand a key.
Me: No
X: You have to, it is like a landlord situation and I HAVE to have a key. If you had a landlord they would have a key.
Me: No
Guess who didn't get a key! LOL
You might need to be careful. Check with your L about this, just to be safe.
I was in the opposite situation -- I moved out of the family home for the sake of my kids, and xW had at one point threatened to change the locks on me. She couldn't do that legally, not in our case.
In such a situation both parties are under some obligations, depending on the separation agreement or divorce terms. In our case, we were still M'ed at the time and I was the primary name on the mortgage. I was making all the mortgage payments and was due a key, which I retained. However, I was also very careful to make sure that I let her know before I would ever visit the premises -- and sought her approval first. You have to be extra careful in these circumstances, on either side.
The best arrangement we had is that I would visit the house under pre-arranged approval. Usually, xW would arrange to be elsewhere at those times because she was most interested in not seeing me more than really worrying about me invading her living quarters.
Again, your mileage may vary, but I suggest checking with your L.
My attorney told me not to change the locks initially. But after a decent amount of time had gone by she sid it was okay. I am pretty sure that since they are divorced he is within his rights to change the locks. He has a right to expect a certain level of privacy, nd giving her a key would negate that.
if he is responsible for the mortgage in his name and not hers and she moved out and they are divorced...I would say he could spray paint his house purple and change the locks every week
As crazy as this may sound Frank, seems to me there are at least little signs that XXX might be recognizing the need for a peaceful coexistence.
Not that I would be giving her power of attorney over my living will or anything...
Glad you ended the back and forth conversation. Nothing more than a waste of time for both of you. Trust me, you will find many, many opportunities to have similar conversations over the years, and they will always be as fruitless as they are now.
You know what some write on this board about how the WAS comes to their senses at some point? My personal experience (and Deb's for that matter) suggests otherwise. My ex is still just as out in left field as she was the day she walked out the door, and it's now been nearly four years.
I wouldn't fret much about the changing of the locks. While it never hurts to check with your lawyer (who should definitely be gracious about such questions given your healthy contribution to her earnings this year, lol), I tend to agree with Fig that given the settled state of your affairs, you are well within your rights to establish personal security at your home.
And if I could offer a friendly counsel on the dating scene?
Don't be in a rush. And keep it friendly for a bit. While you've been emotionally solo for some time now, you've also been living in a (sometimes not so) demilitarized zone. If you can manage some small group social activities for awhile, it might help you ease back in to the casual social scene.
My friend, I cannot imagine you lacking for the attention of interested females for long. You're the solidest of solid catches. But heal your heart for a bit and get a routine establsihed. You don't want to be balancing too many things right out the gate of your new life.
Finally, awesome sounding weekend with the kids. Of course you know they don't always have to be weekends that are chalk full of activities, but make every hour a good hour.
Blessings,
Bill
Heal up before you date.
Rule of thumb, until you can go out and NOT talk about a previous realtionship you aren't ready for a new one.
Likewise, you should not feel a need to ask a date about her previous relationship until getting to know each other for a while.
And when they do ask you about your marriage too soon, just reply with a simple canned answer that shows no bitterness.
Talk about clothes. Women love to talk about clothes. If you talk about clothes long enough, the conversation will eventually lead to talk about the removal of clothes.
JTB, oooh, that's a good one.
try meetup dot com. You can get together with people who share your interests. Much better than sharing the interest of alcohol and hunting...
Your weekend sounded great. I hope that work makes the time in-between fly by.
I think she went ballistic about the locks because, crazy as it sounds after all this, the X HATES the idea you might be with another woman. I think that's why all the emotion over the locks.
And fib, if you go online dating, I'll share with you a few observations from someone who has looked, met one good friend and dated another guy for a year:
- Please don't say "soulmate" in your profile
- Don't just put up photos taken with the automatic timer in your bathroom. Makes you look like a potentially crazy person who has no friends. Or a married guy. Include a nice face shot, a full body shot, and pics of you with friends or family. So you look like a guy who has a life.
- Don't just use pictures from 20 years ago! Guys apparently lie about their age as much as women. Use recent photos (okay to include one younger photo with some kind of note, so they can see what a hunk you were in your thirties).
- If you contact someone you think is interesting, it's ok to chat a little online to make sure they're not psycho or have a fatal incompatibility (like politics or smoking) but be careful of developing any kind of "relationship" until you've met for coffee. Someone can seem great online and then you meet them and there's NO chemistry at all. better a casual coffee date meet-and-greet right off the bat.
- Avoid long-distance relationships!!! I foolishly got involved with a guy who lives 11 hours away. Although I thought he was great, the relationship never had a chance to be "normal", and I put way too many miles on my car. Stick to local women.
Ellie
- Please don't say "soulmate" in your profile
That one sends me running for the hills! LOL
FIB, my friend, take things slow. Let your heart heal, let your head stop spinning. There is no rush.
Live your life. Enjoy your kids. Things happen when they are supposed to.
I am so glad the worst is behind you. I wish only good things from now on.
Heal up before you date.
Rule of thumb, until you can go out and NOT talk about a previous realtionship you aren't ready for a new one.
I agree somewhat with this..BUT if you end up dating somebody who is divorced, it is a topic that gets discussed..I mean you have to deal with ex spouses if the two of you have kids, so it is part of who you are..I actually felt it was healthy to get that discussion out there and over with..
I think when it comes to the whole dating thing you will make good decisions..for me the first few dates were about feeling good about myself again..I kind of new I was doing that, but I guess I needed that..honestly the first time someone was interested in getting intimate with me I ran so fast I couldn't believe it..I clearly wasn't ready, so I took some time off the dating scene..when I got past that, it was really about focusing on what I wanted in someone..when I found someone, my circle of friends were so quick to say "good for you, that will show XW"..I can honestly say it was never, ever about that for me, and never will be..for me it's about a new phase of my life and sharing that with somebody amazing..it takes time, but when you get there you know it..
Frank, I'm really glad you had such a great weekend..even more happy things are progressing..I went through the locks thing also..I was just very upfront to my XW about it..told her we had separate living arrangements and I don't have access to her place and don't want any, I would expect her to respect that I want privacy where I live..told her I checked it with my L and was encouraged to do so.it was never an issue after that..
Strength and Honor..
Mules
I have found a good rule of thumb is when you can out with someone and there is no comaprison factor (like she is so much nicer than x when blah blah blah or I like when x did blah blah blah better)
when they are a sep entity from the person you were with, when being with them doesn't automatically generate a this is better than or a this is worse than comparison
then you know you are healed enough, settled into who YOU are, able to enjoy yourself enough
in the end
you need to be good with you and who you are, not who you married or who you divorced or who you used to be or who you want to be but really just WHO YOU ARE
because otherwise the person you might be dating will be dating one of these yaywhos and not YOU..., you dig?
I think this is some excellent insight, and very accurate in my experience.
Talk about clothes. Women love to talk about clothes. If you talk about clothes long enough, the conversation will eventually lead to talk about the removal of clothes.
You're a funny man, Kerry.
Gardener - I am just relating to my date last week at a shopping mall restaurant. After dining, we spent some time browsing the ladies apparal section at Macy's talking about clothes. I'm looking forward to tomorrow nights date to hopefully continue where the conversation was progressing...
My biggest concern is that some of "those people" over in the mlc forum keep taking my "man card" away.
Kerry,
My biggest concern is that some of "those people" over in the mlc forum keep taking my "man card" away.
They keep
trying to take it away. Man Card
cannot be taken away. It can, however, be surrendered.
They keep trying to take it away. Man Card cannot be taken away. It can, however, be surrendered.
He shoots - he scores!
Sorry - I have Game 3 on in the background and I could not resist...
First response to fig, bnd and Bill. I'm pretty sure that I'm OK. We have a signed divorce agreement. My name is on the deed. XW moved out and has her own residence. Still, man was she pissed.
I had my kids for two dinners. Now, I have my long stretch. She has them this weekend, Thurs thru next Monday although I may get them for a few hours on her Saturday because she works and S9 has a ballgame. We'll see.
It hasn't been as bad as I thought, but, the emptiness in the house now is imposing. I have caught myself standing in the hallway on the second floor and just staring into S9's and D7's empty bedrooms. I have visions of XW painting S9's room with stars before he was born. Again..not about XW...but...about the incredible transition from that point.
FIB
It is the end to what you envisioned your life being
don't let the ghosts of time past haunt you for too long
I am reminded today, my last day at my teaching job HERE
of change
and
how I so crave to be solid...no more changes
and
of how God keeps smiling at me, I imagine a little indulgently, while He reminds me that it is through change that we grow
My greatest prayer has been one of growth and God, in His wisdom, will not let my prayer go unanswered, even when I wish it to just be still
with each change, I have a renewed sense of faith, of greatness and of His wisdom
let God remind you Frank, that through change comes growth. God does not want you to languish and fade...He wants you to be vibrant and colorful.
SO...this a big change
find your growth
your ability to shine
don't forget the wonderful memories like the anticipation of your son or that he was conceived in love. Pause but do not linger for too long there
you are in a growth spurt!!!
Next post.
OK....I have already followed all the advice here. I am blown away because on the service I joined, at one point, was getting 25 to 30 emails a day. My G-d...there are a LOT of divorced woman out there. A LOT. It must be challenging, if not difficult, for a divorced woman in her 50s with 2 kids to find a new healthy R. Well, I'd better not exclude myself yet from that category.
My pix are all within 12 months. I made my profile humorous. Eg, I love to cook so I used my favorite line "dinner is ready when the smoke alarm goes off." LOL.
I've seen some hurtful posts by women in profiles:
-"don't bother emailing me if you don't own a comb" (thank G-d I have a full head of hair"
-"my kids are grown so don't bother emailing if yours aren't. I got rid of my baggage"
-"you get ten points if you own a boat"
-"don't expect to get a kiss or have your hand held on the first date." Wow....tough love I guess
-"don't bother emailing if you are under 5'11." I made it by one inch. LOL.
Women ask a lot of similar questions:
-what do you do?
-how long are you divorced?
-how long were you married?
And, of course, most of the women seem cirumspect, suspicious, etc. On the flip side, others have a great outlook on life.
Well...nearly 6 days without my kids coming up. It hurts.
FIB
Ugh.
I've seen some hurtful posts by women in profiles:
-"don't bother emailing me if you don't own a comb" (thank G-d I have a full head of hair"
-"my kids are grown so don't bother emailing if yours aren't. I got rid of my baggage"
-"you get ten points if you own a boat"
-"don't expect to get a kiss or have your hand held on the first date." Wow....tough love I guess
-"don't bother emailing if you are under 5'11." I made it by one inch. LOL.
I've seen some real crazy profiles myself. Some women just dont know how to disguise batchit crazy. The best one I saw was a long list of demands she expects a man to do for her. Another one went into a long rant about not contacting her if all you want to do is have sex, but she had a self-picture of herself in the mirror bathroom wearing underwear.
My G-d...there are a LOT of divorced woman out there. A LOT. It must be challenging, if not difficult, for a divorced woman in her 50s with 2 kids to find a new healthy R. Well, I'd better not exclude myself yet from that category.
Yep, imagine how hard it is for a woman in her 40's with
4 kids!!! Especially when you consider that Iam the one who is primarily responsible for the kids activities! I have very little free time!
Here's the flipside to your online experience!
-"my kids are grown so don't bother emailing if yours aren't. I got rid of my baggage"
"Wy can't you drop everything and meet me the minute I want you to? Just leave your kids at home.
-"you get ten points if you own a boat"
Well I have to admit that a boat would be a bonus!!! But I am tired of every 40-somethng man thinking I am going to fall in love with his Harley!!!
-"don't expect to get a kiss or have your hand held on the first date." Wow....tough love I guess
That seems perferable to the men who are desperately looking for their soulmate!!! I don't want to go to dinner with someone who expects me to be their instant world!
FIB,
...but, the emptiness in the house now is imposing. I have caught myself standing in the hallway on the second floor and just staring into S9's and D7's empty bedrooms. I have visions of XW painting S9's room with stars before he was born.
Sorry, man.
Time. Time and strength. You're their Dad after all- gotta have the strength.
My thoughts are with you in this wrenching transition.
Yep, I told you there is relief from getting away from her and also the lonesome times without the kids. Be prepared that it will get worse as your time with the kids is less than hers. Six days is easy - like you are on a business trip. But when the routine sets in and and you get only 1/3 time ... it sucks.
My response to the her on the lock change: get used to it. She pi$$ed that part of her life away and is no longer welcome in your house unless asked.
Go slow on the dating. Have some fun rather than a relationship. Go back and read some of our books like Dr Gray and Double Your Dating. Good stuff there. Time also to revisit your terms as a man (N.U.T.S). We are still the walking wounded - need I say more Doc. You operate on a guy one day - I bet you don't tell him to go run a 5K the next day. Same for dating.
You sound good. Keep us posted. Time to start a new thread - this one has too much about divorce in in. Time to toss it and focus on the future. "Awards Night" as you called this thread is over.
Strength and Honor.
Hi all.
It's been nearly 10 days since my last post as I begin to fade out here from DB land. Since that time, I filed a police report against my XW for barging into the house last week without warning. I felt violated. I had changed the locks but the door was closed but unlocked. Learned my lesson. It scared the children, my cousins and me. Now, my kids ask me to lock the door and 'will mommy break in again?". Took me time to explain about our 2 separate homes, respect, etc.
After 2 weeks, I am still being insulted in texts, somewhat harassed, but, I guess, tolerable.
I miss my children but I think I am slowly?, ?somewhat?, kinda? adapting to their absence. However, I am feeling like I am secondary, or, as a joke, just like #2. I DO think they enjoy some 'freedom' when they are with me. D7 sends me goodnite texts, I miss you notes, self-taken photos on her phone and voice notes. S9, well, it's spotty, but, he DOES seem to miss me. He loves XW but he is afraid of her.
The two of them gave me a hard time this morning. S9 didn't want to complete the 2nd of two tryouts for his baseball summer league. I required him to go (remember, he is an avid BB player and made the All Star team). Last year, I let him talk me out of his playing and, afterward, he was crying for weeks when his cousins and neighbor came home with amazing BB uniforms. I think it was his way of trying to stay home and play video games. D7 wanted pizza and when we got to our usual pizza place, suddenly, she didn't want THAT brand of pizza and wanted to go somewhere else after we arrived. GRRRRR.
It worked out.
Both apologized to me later. On the way home for our 'final' dinner before they went back, I asked them "Hi-Lo": what was their high point over the weekend and what was their low point. There were no low's.
It's a horrible feeling as a man....as a hands on father...as someone who was ready to pursue full custody, to now feel second rank to an anger driven, vindictive 'child-using' ex spouse. I don't care WHAT is written into the stips. They ultimately have the upper hand and control. Even my attorney now recommends that I pick up my children with another adult with me (a witness), to prevent the NEXT issue from arising.
There is little that I can do.
On the positive, I met the father of one of the boys on my baseball team that I help coach. Turns out that he worked for most of his career for a large real estate tycoon in NYC (I'm sure you can guess) and was recently divorced from a well known movie actress. He had the same law guardian as I did and from his political circles from prior to his divorce, knew virtually all the judges and many atty's. He gave me an amazing 'posthumous' view of my divorce proceedings and I apologize in advance if some of HIS comments annoy some of the women here:
- that my judge was a tough mommy judge, pro mommy all the way
- that our law guardian was a feminist and HE wasn't getting his kids until his actress-wife showed up at his children's school 'lit up' and the school notified CPS and 911. THEN...the LG changed her mind. Recall, my LG was chatting away socially with my then STBXW in spite of the facts that I had written
- that our XW's were broken people
- that XW's atty had a reputation for 'never letting anything end', i.e., billing the hell out of you
Everything fits to a T.
So, there you have it.
The emails from the date website are slowly waning after the initial flurry. Out of 3:
-one was OK
-one was the ex-wife of a physician in my hospital
-one was 'batchit'
Ugh.
I hope all of you are well. Haven't been here much. Most can find me on 'visage livre' as they say in French.
FIB
Glad to hear from you, FIB! Sounds like you are doing well. Good for you on filing the report against your ex! She's gotta learn sometime. I'm just sorry that she gave you, the kids, and your cousins such a fright....and that she gave you cause for having to file a report.
I'm thrilled that the kids are doing such a great job of keeping in touch w/you. You will find that boys don't communicate as much as girls. I hear from my daughter all the time when she is at her dad's; but, seldom from my son.
Remember ALWAYS that you are a VERY IMPORTANT part of your children's lives!! And, you are doing an EXCELLENT job! So proud of you!
Take Care and Continue to keep in touch!
deb
FIB, I am glad you posted. I contacted you on the alt. but I was getting a little worried.
Let me just tell you that you are not number 2 in your kids eyes. Children know much more than we give them credit for. They do. And they are watching. You are their daddy, their rock. You provide stability and security. They love you, Frank. You can be sure of it.
I know that there is prejudice in the legal system. All kinds. It sucks.
As for the dating thing, it will happen. Probably when you least expect it.
You need time to heal, time to get used to it all.
Take the free time you have and fill it with things you enjoy.
I wish you peace, my friend, and happiness.
Ah Frank,
Ca, c'est la vie...or as my brother's poem goes, "C'est la vie, C'est le guerre, c'est la pomme de terre"....("that's life, that's war, that's a potato")
Anyhow, am in total agreement that you need a witness to attend your pick ups. But of course! In time it'll get better b/c it has to, even your ex has a wearing down point...and if she goes the other way and totally flips, you'll get the kids. See? Win win..
As for the dating, as someone here said, watch yourself as you are wounded. I'd hide the fact that you are a physician as long as possible Frank. Seriously I would. I think your ex hooked onto that and hid her flaws quite well before you married and she also hid her giant expectations too. Like the one where she said "I never expected to have to work at the age of 35"...(that's the comment that makes us "first wives" want to strangle the newbies. You know, those women who like doctors who are already finished with the unpleasant side of becoming who they are today, like the 96 hour work weeks, having NO money for YEARS, and finally coming home-oops, only to fall asleep AT the table while talking to the children...sort of. Yeah, those women FIB... beware) Again, leave out where you work b/c you could also get a stalker and I'm serious. Wackos of both kinds.
I'm reminded of the guy who said "a lot of women won't go out with me a 2nd time JUST b/c of my housing sitch" (translation-he shares a house with 5 other men, AND further translation, he's semi-homeless) AND one who said "all women care about is money" which MAY have been valid except it turns out HE decided monthly, what HE thought his kids needed in terms of money and sometimes he doesn't work so much and so...ooops, turns out he is on unemployment. (Yeah, she's so materialistic.) I read once that men wanted a mate who was attractive and didn't nag. And that women wanted security and fidelity. I have to say that the comment on women sounds about accurate for most. But as for us now...
When I talk to my single friends, I can say that MOST healthy attractive women over 40 (no I do not include your ex in this category) just want 1) a functional guy (=holds a job down and doesn't have a major glaring flaw like big gambling, a bad addiction, pathological lying, or a weirdo temper), 2) a man who won't be a succubus taking what little wealth she may have, (can't believe how many men are openly attracted to professional women b/c of the money and they're SO OBVIOUS about it!!) and 3) a man with a modicum of sensitivity and kindness who won't stomp on our or our children's hearts, and 4) physically, a man who can open the jar of pickles, thinks we're sexy, and can keep up if we go on a 2 mile hike...
Am I off here ladies? Let's keep it simple now...
I assume you gentlemen here can also keep it simple, (of course you're ALL gentlemen) so you want a woman without batchittness and who doesn't hate all men...and who weighs less than you do (UNLESS you like your women meatier). Oh, and though we're all tempted to say men are oh so shallow for wanting pretty women, (well, you could concede that) let's agree that everyone wants to feel some chemistry for their prospective partners...
What is it that SHOULD be on those posts? I can say that if he describes his body as being "athletic" it apparently means he needs to lose 20 lbs. "Needs to lose a few" means a lot. While I do think it's nice to feel like the female of the species, why post comments that will make the date visibly disappointed when you meet?
Oh a huge turn off is the guys who won't date a woman their own age, or worse, no women over 40 although THEY are over 50 themselves. I mean, if they don't want kids, what's the problem? If the woman is attractive, why does that guy rule them out? Would he say no to Christie Brinkley? She's over 50. I think it's an ego thing that is a huge turn off b/c it reeks of insecurity and double standards. (Why even openly admit that? Just ignore the "older" ones if you want
My brother dated a college student when he was 45 y/o and just looked foolish. He wanted a trophy wife but the thing is trophy wife wants a trophy h and in Washington DC that means you hold elected office (which you can lose) or you earn over $350k in a secure job. Took him 5 silly and expensive years to finally marry a woman of substance his own age.
FIB, you're going to be fine if you don't let that empty house make you start thinking batchitt looks good. Know what we mean?
Why not just have some fun with a good female companion, and see what happens from there? Isn't that what the "normals" do now?
((( j )))
After Cori's ex, several times, went on screaming rampages at the normal drop off point (a rest. mid-way) and then threatened to hunt me down and kill me while ALL our kids were in the car, as I was backing out of the parking lot for a pick-up...
we decided to use a family visitation center
drop offs and pick ups are monitored by a staff and video cameras. We arrive 10 mins before drop off time and get to leave 10 mins after she picks her up
it has been a tremendous stress reliever for us and has made pick ups and drop offs easier and we have court documentation now that she does show up late and drop off late etc etc
AND
we never have to see her face
BONUS
After Cori's ex, several times, went on screaming rampages at the normal drop off point (a rest. mid-way) and then threatened to hunt me down and kill me while ALL our kids were in the car, as I was backing out of the parking lot for a pick-up...
we decided to use a family visitation center
drop offs and pick ups are monitored by a staff and video cameras. We arrive 10 mins before drop off time and get to leave 10 mins after she picks her up
it has been a tremendous stress reliever for us and has made pick ups and drop offs easier and we have court documentation now that she does show up late and drop off late etc etc
AND
we never have to see her face
BONUS
Jesus Figg...thank GOD there's something you can do. OMG...sooo gross.
I can only imagine how many "incidents" that occurred before the authorities and "experts" realized that the batchitts out there are trouble makers.
(SIGH)
j-
I know...
nutjobs seem to be everywhere
It takes a bit to rattle me
but she is so mentally ill
she makes me nervous
and
the worst was that she decided to do all that crap in front of all the kids
her daughter was sobbing and my boys looked like they were ready to lay the smack down
she followed us down the highway for awhile too
all the while calling Cori nonstop
AND
the jusdge makes us pay(?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!) for the visitation center
oh well
next court date is August 23rd...she wants full custody
we want supervised visists
all we can do is pray that what is best for Aubrey happens
(sigh)
Sorry fig that you are going thru this too. It's horrible. XW looks even thinner than ever now and has this pathologic look in her eyes when I look at her.
I met her to do passports yesterday. I didn't want to end up in court for something as stupid as that. She DID let them stay over last night during her visitation. It was wonderful. You see, from 8PM Wedneday until 4PM the following Tuesday is a helluva long time. It hurts, plain and simple.
I feel degraded and less than equal: "XW, can the kids stay over an extra hour? They're having fun."
I have to ask for more time with my children.
As for the dating thing:
1) one 'eh'
2) one semi-stalker
3) one ex wife of a colleague where I work
4) one semi batchitt
I'm done for now. Not renewing that one month subscription.
FIB
Fib - were these four women YOU contacted, or four who contacted you? How many did you contact?
Hey Frank, sorry this is so hard for you regarding the kids. I pray that it changes in the future. For now, try to enjoy them when you have them and store up those memories. And keep busy when you dont.
As far as dating, I think you need to take a breath and just relax after everything you have gone through. There will be plenty of time for dating in the future.
You are in my thoughts, my friend. ((((hugs)))
Hey Guy..
It must have been interesting sticking your toe in the dating pool. Just as predators can sense blood with vulnerable women, so can women attune to fresh meat. Although predators prey, women snag.. after all the numbers are against them.
And this doesn't mean all women or men.. just a behavior I've noticed over time.
One guy I know never did dating services.. just went out of his way to meet and greet people.. at Starbucks, a smile during the day, learning body language and subtle hints that say more than words.
Like one poster said.. you're recovering from a long term agonizing battle. Let yourself heal.
Personally.. I think that 'man time' might be good. Hang out with guy friends... fathers of the kids you coach. Invite them (and spouses) for a team BBQ.. or something.. a dip in the pool if you have one.
It's no longer about a surviving a vindictive spouse.. it's about emerging as the man you are... becoming whole.
*hugs*
FIB,
That Gypsy...she's got really good advice, in my humble opinion.
You've got plenty of time for female companionship and a future relationship.
Don't try to force things to happen. Just let them happen.
It's a new day Frank. What's good?
Blessings,
Bill
[b]what gypsy and bworl said, take it easy/b]
Plus, so help me, if you tell a woman you are a doctor and marry a batchitt nut who wants the money she thinks SHE's entitled to, I'll....be forced to consume an inanimate object..[b][b].so, save my colon and be careful and discreet and slow the heck down!! [/b]. [/b]No offense FIB, but I can't see how you'd be ready for a healthy R with a healthy woman now anyway. If I met you (and did not know your history from here) wouldn't you at some early point (b/c the pain is all SO NEW FOR YOU) tell me of your sitch and ex? Well guess what? That would freak me out! I'd be sad for you (not super attractive but possibly if she's the rescuing type) and I'd look for bombs under my car and drive different ways to work if a guy told me his ex was like yours....so HEAL and recover and leave memories of HER far in your mental past... THEN go back in the dating water. It'll be warmer, we promise.
You're a good catch and there are great women out there. You WILL find one. We all somehow know this. Soon you will too.
See you in the alt universe.
(( ))
kml...all initially contacted me. ALL of them have. My email was flooded was I first signed on.F
Hi all....I agree. I am not renewing my membership. One month was enough. I can see where kml is going with this. I didn't have to do any work. The emails flooded me. I think I will just 'meet and greet' the last few 'requests' to have coffee and then just relax.
All my body parts are still working but the years of playing sports have taken it's toll. Although my knees are still doing great, I can sense that the pounding has worn them so, I am looking into local bicycling groups as a new source of male camaraderie and exercise.
My son made the baseball travel league and it's going to take up a lot of time, so, that's the NEXT focus.
XW let the kids sleep over Saturday nite on her weekend so I had a nice Father's Day chunk of time with them. Many predicted that she would do this, so, I hope it continues.
Outside of that, I miss my children. Although I am OK when alone each night during the week, I miss them terribly. I still find myself staring at their vacant rooms. I don't think any real father 'gets over this', I think we adjust to it since we have no other option. Plain and simple, it sucks. I can't tell you how horrible it feels to have to ask HER for permission for extra time with them. It's emasculating.
The only interested bidders in the house have vanished, so, it's going to slow up now for summer. I am 'stuck' in the house until it sells. That is not such a bad thing per se, just a financial burden.
The positives so far: I am at peace in the house. The stress of the D is over. The few women that I have met so far, outside of the negatives of the date itself, have given me a little 'boost'. I think I can have a new R with someone.
I do not miss my X. Communication now is near nil. I DO miss the structure of marriage. I DO miss companionship. I DO miss sex. Hey...I'm the other species.
Have a great day.
FIB
Frank,
she will "give you" more time with the kids as time gows by. She started already and it is soon considering how she has been acting...
About a new girl, well, you know how that happens, when you least expect it. Take it easy.
K
Waiting for an FB message with the names...
A sample from a profile:
My ideal relationship:
Simple version: When I hear his key turn in the door a smile spreads across my face. Longer version: Someone whose presence I enjoy being in and whose values and priorities I share, someone who perceives important situations somewhat similarly to the way I do and whose judgment I respect, and someone who makes me never want to get out of bed.
My past relationships:
That things that look good on paper often do not work out in real life, that differences in temperament can make cohabitation impossible, and that far more important than the things people have in common is how they approach resolving the things that they do not.
I am looking for a:
Let's get real for a minute and ignore all the activities and traits they mention since most of you guys just click off the whole category anyway. Once upon a time my life was consumed with raising my family and working. But I turned around for a second and all of a sudden three kids were gone leaving only one son at home. For the first time in a long time I am able to place my needs first, or at least a close second, and find myself seeking companionship. I don't have to jet set around the world though it's a nice thought, but I do have to be with someone who stimulates me, mind, body and heart. The truth be told, when the dust of the day settles I am perfectly content to curl up in bed with someone whose soul touches mine. As busy as the days are, nights are lonely. You are someone who understands that we don't need to be tethered at the hip and that sometimes a silent shoulder on which to lean is more effective than any words spoken. There is simply great comfort and happiness in being together that stems from a very deep level of caring for and understanding one another. If you wrote about the twenty sports you engage in or the importance of fine wine and dining, or the fact that you are looking for the love of your life, you are probably not for me. If on the other hand you understand that in a long term relationship the passion that begins with the flutter of the heart evolves into a deep love and appreciation for the inner beauty of your partner, then please contact me, because nothing would give me greater pleasure than sharing my life with you.
My perfect first date:
You look at least as good as your picture, you didn't lie about anything and the conversation flows with ease. (Please note: Do not say that you are 49 if you are 55 and do not say that you are 6'0" if you are 5'9" because I have a strong preference for tall men. Hopefully your pictures are fairly recent. Mine were taken on Oct. 5, 2009)
FIB
That is a very good profile write up.
"kml...all initially contacted me. ALL of them have. My email was flooded was I first signed on.F"
So, FIB - why haven't YOU contacted anyone? Why don't YOU look through the profiles and see if there is someone you feel an affinity for? Why are you limiting yourself to the ones who contacted you?
Ellie
(P.S. You must be cute because most guys complain they don't get nearly as many "hits" as the women do)
I DO miss sex. Hey...I'm the other species.
Both species can miss sex!!!!!!!
klm,
He is cute. You can see his pic in the other universe. LOL. FIB, no 2X4's please. :):):)
Welll.. cute in a manly man way...
Hate to admit I have never been to the alt universe and cannot find the wormhole.
Stop you all. LOL. I am going to blush.
To Kerry...that's funny. I copied and pasted that profile to show, what I thought, was a woman in MLC. But hey.....I've been known to be wrong.
Secondly, XW asked me to watch the kids tonite longer than usual because she was going out after work.
Finally, I am failing somewhere. D7 was playing in her corner in the family room tonite and she began to cry. She said to me that "this place doesn't feel like my home anymore." I carried her upstairs and tried to support her but I felt like crap. I'm failing somewhere. My sister said that I need to organize her stuff more. I don't think that's it. The kids rooms are empty. They need beds and mattresses. However, I don't think that's it. My nephews come over from across the street and the 3 boys play video games. I think she might feel excluded despite the fact that I buy stuff to do with her , eg, make candy, arts and crafts, etc.
Maybe it's just transition. I don't know. I can tell when I pick up kids that XW is feathering the house she has rented. My son is OK here. Maybe I'm overreading. I don't know. Something was off with D7. Perhaps, she just connects more with a woman now?
Bleh.
FIB
You're "mind reading" the d7 FIB....she is sad b/c the family isn't together anymore and the home reminds her of that (and 10 to 1 ex said "it's NOT home anymore"...) but yeah, if the boys are all playing then she needs 1 on 1 with you AND OR whatever she had before, (minus batchitt ex w...)
Any females in the area she played with before? Any friends with girls OR boys who are her age she could play with? Didn't she play soccer too? I mean she's not fully 100% girlie Barbie doll, right? My girls each had at least one male friend who played games and outdoor things for a long time. It's not impossible. Include her with the son and his friends. And you...got "Rock Band"? YOU can play that too, btw...we actually played online with our son in NYC on Father's Day, so we were all "virtually" all together...
it'll be better. But I love that you wonder what you can do better. But I worry you are over reacting, and guilting yourself, (which I always thought was a Catholic thing)...
(( j ))
Hey Blushing Frank..
Why not get the kids beds and mattresses? After all you need them now and in the future. And why not let the kids be part of the process.. something they own.. like picking out the colors and themes. It's a new life for them, too. And having a choice is exciting.
Listen to your sister, try what she suggests. She's someone who knows and loves your kids. The worse thing that can happen is that it doesn't work.. but at least you tried.
I felt like I'd destroyed promises I made when the kids were young and growing up with the divorce. It ripped me apart. I even had a $1000 meltdown (the cost of lawyer's time) when I couldn't do a fourway with the lawyers and divorcing spouse because they mentioned two households. That day I learned what the word paroxysms meant. Sucks.
My personal grief colored how I reacted to the kids needs. I learned to respond to their needs, that their feelings were far different than mine. They were moving forward, I was mired.
You got the absolute best settlement possible. You have a mother who is increasing the time you have with the kids. I think this is where the true PMA kicks in because you're no longer 'surviving'.. you're rebuilding.. plotting a new journey.
Do what you've always done. Be the dad. You don't need the perfect answer. Validate what they feel. Reassure that you'll always be there, that they're the most incredible kids in the world.
Sometimes the best 'fix' is listening.
You can't change the past, but you can make a bouquet of all the positives and move forward.
*hugs*
To Kerry...that's funny. I copied and pasted that profile to show, what I thought, was a woman in MLC. But hey.....I've been known to be wrong.more with a woman now?
I was serious about the profile being a good one. I re-read it and the lady sure does not sound MLC to me. I think she has a great attitude about what makes a good relationship. Did you find her pictures attractive?
Here is a bit from the profile of one I emailed and talked with but never met...
I have had good relationships and bad relationships, but I think I finally have this whole thing figured out: find someone with whom I am compatible, where there is chemistry but also friendship, who shares some of my interests, and who has left their baggage at the door.
I am kind, nice, driven, a bit of a neat freak. I am open to new adventures and want to live my life instead of watching it pass me by. I am a sucker for romance and love the small gestures versus the grand ones. I want someone who is comfortable giving and receiving affection. I don't like huge egos - the devilish side of me seeks to deflate those types. I think of myself as shy deep, deep down but none of my friends agree because I am outgoing (but not in an obnoxious way).
I love to laugh and do so easily. I can be a bit of a goof and will make a fool of myself in public to make my daughter or someone else close to me laugh.
I am looking for a true partner - someone who is able to give of themselves freely and without too many reservations.
Daughters are not the same as sons, right FIB? The fact that you care and notice is a sign to me that you will find a way to make home with you a comfortable place for both your children.
It takes time to figure this out.
By all means, even though you will be leaving the house at some point, find a way to make a place for each of the kids. I know things are probably tight financially, but do what you can, and make sure they help in picking things out.
This is a tough time too my friend. Transition. A new way of doing things. And understand that there may well simply be times when one or the other of your young ones simply is feeling the change. Be Dad.
Blessings,
Bill
Sometimes they won't like you either.
again "Be Dad"!!!
cire
kerry, not to quibble but the online ad (Of FIB's) was a tad off for me too. She Seemed to know a lot about what she didn't want and that always turns me off, and also she spoke of putting herself first, or mostly, and that gave a whiff of MLC to me. Having said that, I had mixed feelings b/c a lot of the other parts were spot on about what realistic expectations she has of a relationship but at times it was too calm for me (like "Settling") and at times too...strict?? Your ad had the phrase "neat freak" which is an alarm bell for ME, but if you're also neat, don't let it be. Let MY type of concerns freak you out b/c I believe in hiring cleaning help if affordable, and lowering standards if not...
Just sayin'...
j
Great answers all. Know what? I think I am going thru MY changes too!! I feel inferior..secondary...that my home isn't as good. I am doing the best that I can right now. Even keeping the house straight is hard work with my time.
S9 started travel league practice yesterday and I got MORE time with him. He was all over me with the I love u's and for the first time in awhile, he showed me affection with hugging and kissing me. Was hard not to lose it when I dropped him off but I kept straight.
This is NOT easy my friends. I feel worse with D7: she feels estranged although I know she loves me. (sigh)
Final note..yesterday, after fielding a ground ball during my son's practice, my finger felt funny. Right 4th distal finger tip was bent. Without any pain or warning, I apparently ruptured the extensor tendon of my right 4th finger. Not the best for a surgeon. Had to get coverage for the ER last night. Today, the finger is going to be pinned. Ouch. I SHOULD be able to operate with it.
Accident or message from above????
FIB
YIKE! Definitely not good for a surgeon.
I'm voting accident. What kind of message from above would that be?
ugh--that bites!! hope it heals up quickly for you! what are the chances of that happening?!
Hey Fielding Frank..
The finger? It's only a message if it's the third.
Your daughter? Smile, hug, tickle.. step away. Read how Smileys Person handles his situation with his young children.
It's not about you when the kids are suffering. It's about them.. what does it take, what is appropriate, how is the best way to assure them of your unconditional love and acceptance as a parent, a father, a daddy. As tough as it is, take off the hair shirt of angst and be the dad for your sweet children.
You are safe.
You are love.
Wherever you are is always home for them.
*hugs*
You are rushing things my friend. Give the kids a chance to adjust. It takes time - lots of it. You are focused on the situation so much that you notice things that went unnoticed before. Don't dwell on it and don't beat yourself up.
And you take time too. Ask me how I know what #2 parent feels like. It sucks, but you adapt. Single parenting is a new skill. Give it time.
And feel those emotions: remember our discussions of how feeling emotions make you whole? Feeling the sadness, the sorrow, fear and anger. Letting go of the resentment, blame, indifference, guilt, insecurity, hopelessness, and jealousy. It all takes time.
Give it time. Things will settle down. Ask me how I know that too.
Strength and honor.
What I might write:
Bad relationships teach what to avoid. Good relationships on what to embrace.
Perfection of body is not a criteria; respecting who you are is.
Kicking dogs, not doing something for your mother on Mother's Day, and spending more time checking yourself out in the mirror than it takes to get ready are not so good.
Being actively involved with your children (if you have them), not having your couch custom molded to your posterior and having snorted while laughing at least once in your life (soda through the nose is an acceptable alternative) all get you somewhere.
Me? Beginning a friendship is more important than acting on lust. No microwave soul mates need apply.
To All:
Divorce has made my son a good baseball player. Throughout the last four years, there were times when S9 would have me outside 3-4 times a day for a catch. Sometimes at 7:30AM before the school bus came. It was an emotional need for him. Well, my son is now the starting 3rd baseman on his travel league and drove in 3 runs tonite. I'm proud of him. XW was at the game. She arrived late, dressed in tight jeans and a baseball type of shirt. I acknowledge her....communicate with regards to which kid goes where...and that is all. I focus on S9 and the game.
I miss my children terribly even tho' XW is giving me (unloading on me?) chunks of time here and there. Over the 4th, they slept over Friday thru Sat AM and spent 3 hours with me on Sunday night. On paper it could have been a six day stretch without seeing them. I'm sure you all know that the additional time now is NOT because the kids are begging for it but for her needs. That is fine by me.
Although I have adjusted to living alone in a 3000 sq ft house, I have NOT adjusted to not having my kids at night.
I miss them.
In fact, I miss them terribly.
I recall one friend here telling me how he would just stay home all the time and read and do chores. I tried to tell him to get out and start anew. Well....I can empathize now. I stayed home most of the 4th weekend. Well....actually...there was a lot of work to catch up with around the house so, I played Mr. Landscaper and Merry Maid (er Man).
D7 seems to be drifting away from me emotionally. She comes home and immediately starts playing with her dolls. I try to involve her but she wants me to 'leave her alone'. Her calls and texts have all but stopped. The 'I miss you's' are less. In fact, I haven't received one in a week or two.
I feel secondary.
I feel outside.
I feel like I 'lost'.
I feel humiliated to ask for an extra hour with our children, or, "can I take them for ice cream."
It's humiliating, to me, to ask for time with our children.
Although I am at a loss for all this, most of my friends here and outside say that "they are adjusting and still love you." "They are older now and growing up."
Perhaps.
I do the best I can to engage D7. I buy crafts to try and do with her. I buy kitchen projects to do with her like baking cookies or making sour candy. In fact, I just ordered a bicycle trailer that looks like half a bike that attaches to underneath my seat so that D7 can ride with me and S9 (she still refuses to learn how to ride a bike).
I kiss her all the time.
I tell her how much I love her.
I'm not sure that there is much else I can do right now outside of just being a dad.
Finally, the website dating stuff, well, bleh. I call them 'meet and greets' and they've all been horrible. FIB
fib,
I was everywhere you are now, 19 years ago.
All those feelings. This is what I did:
I'm not sure that there is much else I can do right now outside of just being a dad.
End game. Raison d'etre. The absolute best I could.
My two sons, now 31 and 34, are the closest relationships in my life.
Even before the (
first) divorce - when they were
toddlers - I knew I wasn't raising children, but men. And would ask myself - often in the most trying of moments - "what do I want our relationship to be when they are men, twenty, thirty years from now? Respond accordingly
now. Build that today. And every day"
Stay the course, fib. Build it. Endure the pain and loss and prioritize
their pain and loss.
It will bear the sweetest of fruit.
FIB..
One step at a time.
One day at a time.
Finding what works for you also shows what doesn't. Pat yourself on the back for ticking one off the list.
Reassure your children that they don't have to choose between you and their mom. That you love them. And define boundaries.
If something isn't working then try another tack. Leave something interesting out. Stay within sight. Don't hover but just be around. Even the greatest resistance softens with proximity. If going to her isn't working, let your daughter come to you.
Make cookies or some other activity by yourself. Let her decide if she wants to be part of the action. And try seeking out Smiley's Person for tips. He has young children, too, and could be a good sounding board.
After the emotional trauma everyone is lost and hurt. Give yourself time to heal. Maybe even.. *gasp*.. seek counseling. My friend would push me, "Kathleen, if you broke your arm, would you set it yourself or go to a professional, a doctor to make sure it healed right? Going to a counselor is no different."
Everyone has to the process a divorce. Better sooner than later with someone who knows their stuff.
And remember.. You are the best. You are an incredible dad, excel in your field and are the bastion of honor.
One step at a time. Call your friends.
*hugs*
Frank,
I think your real fear is that xw is poisoning them against you and that you are losing. To an extent this CAN work but never permanently. It's not as if you are not around. And little girls want their dads around but not as much at this age anyhow. It will come. And unlike the dads who make promises and break them you will model a man of his word. She WILL look forward to the times you have, in time. Oh and by the way, the behavior of your wife won't last too long either as her cards are starting to show already. You don't think the kids will notice the dumping off? Or the new guy who gets her attention more than they do?
They will notice. And you will always be making them your priority and in a way it's easier for you to do that with having them less (OUCH I know you are cringing but hear me out) b/c what I mean is, by having them less, when you DO have them, you really can make them IT...they are number 1 and the only 1 for now...in contrast, your xw is "making her new life" with ....whomever....
Kids figure this out. They don't like it. I still recall a neighbor of ours 16 years ago, who's h had left. There were two kids, about 14 and 12. The dad would make promises to his kids to pick them up on Saturday, and I'd see them on the porch waiting for their dad to come, for HOURS they would wait. A boy and a girl, in the Texas heat, waiting outside b/c the mom would not let the dad in the house...and for most of the promised visits, he was a no show. ANd when he would show, his ex w would blast him for being late or "finally coming" or whatever....nightmare. Those kids were scarred. I hated the dad for breaking his word SO OFTEN and hated the mom for making her anger the obvious priority over her kids...
I have often wondered how those children turned out b/c the daughter babysat for my youngest on occasion and was a nice girl. She cried when we moved and I KNOW it was b/c she saw an intact family...and wanted one so badly. If her dad had showed up when promised, THAT divorce would have been so much less of a blow to them. Instead of leaving their mom, it was clear he left them all. That's why you are not HIM....you and your xw broke up, your family did not. You are a single dad, like many others. And your kids WILL know you love them and the way you get along with your son now, will be a model for your d too. She's going to want it too but right now feels very conflicted and disloyal if she lets you get close. Understand that.
Don't make her choose. You can even compliment your xw if there's anything similar about her and the d7, like if she looks good or whatever...point is, your d is like her mom IN YOUR D"S EYES...she is female, and maybe they look a little alike...so let her see that you don't hate HER (or your ex b/c your ex is part of HER...make sense?) No, you don't have to compliment your xw TO HER...but to your d, so she sees NO rejection of her, from you.
I don't think I'm articulating this well, but just hang in there. You are NOT losing your kids....and you know, don't forget or revise how it was when you were all together. Having them all in the house was not a picnic either. At least now there's no disrespect in your face from your xw, nor is there that hideous tension in the home...that's something.
((( j )))
I don't want you to panic, but I do want to throw my sister's story out there as a cautionary tale.
My dad was a baseball star growing up so when I took an interest in it we practiced every day for hours.
My sister was an animal lover and artist -- and one of the very best artists in the country. She won a high school art contest in the 8th grade.
Anyway, I was 12 and she was 14 when my parents divorced. My dad never missed a baseball game or practice after the divorce. He was very dedicated and eventually frustrated because by not being around every day I drifted away from my practice habits as I got older (girls).
My mom, I'm guessing here, sensed that I would never turn away from my dad because of sports so she began really campaigning for my sister's affection by telling her how much her dad favored me because of baseball.
My sister tells me now she never felt like our dad favored me until our mom really put the full-court press on.
Eventually, it was successful. She never visited my dad on weekends. They never did anything together. My sister realizes now what my mom was up to.
My parents are gone now and I wish they were around to grill them about this.
I worry that your daughter senses the tie you have with the son about baseball. Watch to see if the ex is trying to use that tie as a wedge with the daughter.
In a way, I now feel lucky I have two daughters. I don't have as many issues about favoritism.
Will respond. I just heard this for the first time tonite. Anyone else think it's a catchy tune?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fotMlRS83YoFIB
Hi mishka and 25...thanks for the input.
I had my kids last weekend. Mellow and laid back but nice. D7 refuses to learn how to ride a back so I found a deal on a bicycle trailer: a third wheel with a seat and handle bar and peddles that connects under the main seat of my bike. Took her out for a spin and she loved it after getting used to it. S9's team got mercy ruled again. They won 2/3 seed games so they were placed in an A league division when they are really a C team.
Me? Still a bit of a struggle not seeing my kids. I miss coming home to them at night and hanging out with them in the evening. It hurts. I DO feel a bit lonely.
I have kept communication with X via text and emails. X now CALLS me in return a text call. Can't figure that one out, but, I answer and respond respectfully. Another weird relationship with her: she hangs out with her friend's husband. When I called her to remind her that she had to drop off S9's BB uniform, HE delivered it to my house. Short, dumpy guy. Hmmm. He is having some marital issues, but, hey, just observations.
S9 told me last week that Wesley Walker (Jet football player) stopped over at X's house for 'coffee and pizza'.
Should I ask X for a signed football? LOL.
I hope you are all well and I apologize for not having much time of late to follow others. Please feel free to update me here if you have the energy: CTH, Kalni, kissak, et al. I WILL try and get over to you and I support you all. FIB
And so it goes:
Final ThreadFIB
Hi Fib,
Just waving at you.
poet
"Me? Still a bit of a struggle not seeing my kids. I miss coming home to them at night and hanging out with them in the evening. It hurts. I DO feel a bit lonely."
Extremely painful!
Maybe start a bunch of on-going projects to keep constructively busy or attack what gets piled up when the kids are around or at least prepare for the kids next visit. (e.g., I did a major surgery on my house and my computers, then smaller projects like upgrading the plumbing, electric and phone wiring; then there's laundry, groceries, school supplies, etc...)
Have you tried to <<completely>> detach from your rotten X? Otherwise with her level of hostility your wounds will take a long tome to heal (right, doc?). Have you tried not answering the phone, thinking about or encountering her or her BFs in any way, shape or form? e,g. I use e-mails (absolutely unemotional, max 2-3 lines), she stays at the curb to pick up the kids, BF cannot come hear me or the kids or contact them when they're with me, No "co-parenting" but "parallel parenting". I got some of this implemented via the court and the rest by simply being very disciplined. Boundaries!
Take care.
Hi poet.
Fb2....oddly, XW is a bit less hostile of late. During the D, SHE was the total noncommunicator. All texts were answered with: "OK". "K". Etc. I continued this simplicity. Funny though. Now, when I text her, she CALLS ME to answer the text. When I tell her to drop something off by the mailbox, she responds, "I'll bring it to the door."
Hey, bottomline is...our marriage is over and simply waiting for a stamp on the stipulation.
I totally agree with your input. I have SO MUCH to do in the house INCLUDING getting new bedroom sets for the kids. She took all their furniture with her. Financially, I have not been able to replace it yet, but, that will change soon.
I keep the doors locked at all times now. I don't want any more barge-ins.
On paper, I am getting more parenting time with them. Saturdays on her weekends, she works and she lets me take them for a chunk mid day. I will probably get less time with them when S9's baseball season ends.
FIB