I think with the start of a new year and a new decade, and given that the moderators have stated they'd like us to self-manage our threads so they don't become too long and untenable, I am starting this new thread.
If you want to follow the long dreary road that led to this place, here it is:
King of Pain King of Pain, 2 If I Could Change The World... Used To The Pain She'll Think Of Me Walk It Off Winner At A Losing Game Better Now One Slip Unstoppable As usual, I'm using a song title for my thread.
Things That Matter
Rascal Flatts
Sometimes he lets that boss get in his head
He can't see past that mountain of deadlines on his desk
Five o'clock, he's the last one out of the gate
And he gets cut off, flipped off, ticked off, out on the interstate
And he wonders why this world won't leave him alone
Till he hears that little voice holler, "Daddy's home"
Things that matter
Things that don't
She's held on to that grudge all her life
And thirty years of anger, since her dad walked out that night
She thinks of all the moments that he's missed
All the birthdays, ballets, first dates, it seems too much to forget
She gets that call that said he don't have long
She walks in, he starts crying, the past is gone
Things that matter
Things that don't
Time ain't on our side
Don't wanna leave this world with
"Why didn't I? Why didn't I?"
Yeah, why didn't I?
Sometimes I take on this world by myself
Thinkin' I got all the answers, don't need anybody's help
When God was right there waiting for me all along
To fall down on my knees, surrender all
Things that matter, things that don't
Things that matter, things that don't
I hope the title for this one will keep me focused on the right priorities as I move forward from this point, to begin another new chapter in "the book of my life".Having said that, is anyone up for a little of the dog that bit them? Yes? No? Either way, the bar's still open, and I've got coffee and soft drinks too.
The line of arguments I am reading (and responding to) over in Kerry and Gypsy's threads are interesting -- and they could not have come at a more pointed moment right now. The issues touch on things going on right now in my brother's own deteriorated marital situation.
I mentioned in my last journaling post about the developments in my brother's sitch. His W, my SIL, has come out openly now with her relationship with another man. My brother and SIL (STBXSIL) are still married, and yet she's already dating and has now publicly stated she is in a R. I had all along suspected that she was already involved with someone else when she started making all these pronouncement to me and my family as to why she and my brother had to end their M. I am almost 100% certain she had already been having an EA with this creepy guy before the separation.
Typical WAW behavior. And she seemed to honestly think she was fooling me during our talks. I said nothing during those times, just offered a few questions to feel her out and to basically let her hang herself with her own words. And then she went and opened a dialog with my own ex -- and then tried to play it down, as if it were really nothing and she wasn't really trying to ally with my ex. I know my ex, and she undoubted contacted my SIL first, especially when she learned my SIL has split from my brother. xW swore to me just days before that she would never, ever contact my side of the family and try to bad mouth me in front of them -- but xW is a proven liar, repeatedly so. So I am sure they have been trading dirt on me and my brother. That's no big deal to me for my sake. But my brother doesn't deserve it, especially not from my ex.
SInce then I haven't really talked much to SIL. I am certain she's figured out by know that I've got her number. And that's just sad, because I don't hate her -- I just think she's screwed up in the head right now. She had deluded herself like so many WAS's that the grass is greener on the other side, while her children, my nieces and nephew, will miraculously do so much better with their parents D'ed.
I think she's a classic WAW in MLC. There's been no animosity or hatred between her and my brother. They were good parents to their children. The still get along quite well despite the separation, cooperate and co-parent as best as I've ever seen. But SIL is undoubtedly spoiled and selfish, and she wants more than what my brother has been willing to give her. She wants to "trade up" and seek her own happiness (through another man, yeah right) all the while in complete denial about how the children's lives are going to be stunted as a result of this.
I call B-S on anyone and everyone who tries to tell me D is better for children. That is just wishful thinking.
I talked to B, my youngest brother (unmarried), to get the scoop on our other brother, K. He used to be good friends with SIL since she's actually closer to his age than she is K. (She's about 38 but the guy she's seeing now is older than I am!) My brother B is thoroughly p'ed off at her and won't talk to heror my brother K anymore. She lied to B and snowed him early in the S -- B is actually more upset with her than K is.
I had a long heated conversation with K, at last, on Saturday. It's worse than I thought. He is usually non-communicative with me about non-trivial matters. He's the middle child and always seeks to avoid conflict. He doesn't like to get into heavier conversations with me or anyone, although he will with his life-long buddies. But K is not only defending his W but is angrily defensive for her sake.
While I can and did commend K for accepting ownership for his failures in their M, it alarms me that he is going way to far -- he is taking 100 percent of the blame for the failure of their M. He said that he alone is responsible for why they are ending their M because he has been a terrible H and a poor father -- he wants SIL to accept no blame for this. I know that K is not being honest here, especially about his fatherhood, because I know for a fact how absolutely outstanding he has been all these years in raising their three kids. So I probed further and asked him what he had possibly done to deserve such a low appraisement of himself. Had he been fooling around, cheating on SIL? No. Had he been abusive with her? No. Had he been abusing drugs or alcohol? No, although he had at one time been hitting the bottle a bit more than he should have, but he has cut it out practically entirely in the last year (mostly for his huge fitness kick: marathon running.) So, what was it? Basically, he can't make SIL happy.
It didn't take long for me to start getting a bit angry. After hearing my brother castigate himself and rebuff any attempt by me to get him to attenuate his stance that SIL was totally blameless, to concede that she owned at least 50% of their M failure -- and with him getting verbally abusive at the very suggestion -- I was furious to hear how wimped out and self-effacing he was for someone who was obviously taking advantage of his foolishness. SIL has managed to brain-wash my brother into accepting full and complete culpability for her ejecting from their M. It is maddening.
Folks, the backstory to all of this adds up to an insane situation. SIL has borrowed money from my mother -- money that my mom cannot afford -- not to cover their mortgage on the family home, as SIL made the story out to her, but to help renovate the home SIL inherited from her own mother so SIL could move into it during the separation. And SIL is going to force the family home to be liquidated at D time and leave my brother K with the task of not only having to find his own place to live, but to have to pay our mother back out of his share alone. But then, it gets worse, SIL is claiming that because she put $50,000 of her inheritance from her grandmother into the family home at the time they bought it, she gets to take that straight off the top of the equity before the 50-50 split. In most jurisdictions that $50k is considered a marital gift and considered a part of the marital property to be split.
But my brother is not going to defend himself and is going to go right along with whatever SIL plans. He won't even think to hire a L -- he won't hear of it!
So while I tried to act diplomatic with him and tried to validate part of his stance, I found myself getting angry for his sake.
And then I heard that SIL was already involving their kids with her OM. And my brother not only did not voice his objection, even to me who would have lent a sympathetic ear, but he told me in a very angry tone that I and everyone else needs to leave SIL alone.
I was flabbergasted that he was okay with his STBXW introducing their impressionable D17, S11 and D7 to her new boyfriend while she is still M'ed to their father. Especially my teenage niece -- what message is her mother sending to her about M and R with men?
I asked my brother about why they are failing to provide proper and moral role models for these children. My brother said, almost as if he was trying to convince himself, that he thinks his kids will do just fine.
I tried to reason with him, to get him to understand there was much more at stake here, and that the both of them were being d*mn fools. But K is just too lost and confused and far too trusting of someone who is, given the way she is moving, going to throw him to the wolves. He's got this martyr complex.
I told him that he is in danger not only of losing his W but the love and respect of his children for not fighting for them and their family.
By that time we were both pretty much fed up with each other. So he abruptly ended the call, hung up on me. He later tried to call back, but I didn't take it. We were both on opposites sides of the fence -- which is odd since I thought I was meeting him half way in the middle; but he just went to such an extreme. And both of us were still a bit riled by the other, so I thought it best to let us cool off a while and not talk anymore that day.
I wasn't so much angry, but shocked and saddened by his enabling behavior -- he is enabling his W to leave him for another man, and to take him for everything he's got.
I have reflected on this. I believe my brother is suffering from a form of depression. I remember that I too took on all the blame and accepted all the faults that xW had laid on me for the first couple of weeks following the bomb. Fortunately for me, my naturally cynical side eventually got the better of me, as I began to see the mismatch between my spouse's words and deeds. It's been much longer for K, and he's still enveloped in her fog.
I have speculated and pondered how SIL has manipulated my brother, demoralized him to the point that he's now putty in her hands. She's had him totally shut down in their bedroom for over two years now, by her own admission, and he's so ready to find his way out and seek release that he'll do practically anything to give her the D and the terms she wants. I know a little about being shut down like that -- I've been there, done that, bought the t-shirt even.
But my poor, dumb brother refuses to open his eyes. I wish the both of them would just wake the frak up!
Okay, I've already written a veritable book here on this, and there is undoubtedly much more to come in their drama, although I really hope I'm wrong. I will continue to pray for those two and their kids. Maybe a miracle will happen and they'll each see the light, but I've seen this story too many times before and it just doesn't look good.
NC, I'm so sorry to hear of your brother's sitch. So much like ours and many others here. I do think the WAS tend to be good at making us feel guilty, but with time I think we do realize that wasn't the case. My X had me feeling literally like a horrible person. When I went to the C the first time, the first thing I told her was that I was a horrible person. It took me a while here and in C to realize I was not seeing things clearly.
Do you think your brother would consider C? Esp. if he does have depression, but even if not, sounds like his self-esteem and PMA are in need of strengthening. Is he active in his church also? They helped me a lot also. Prayers are a good idea too; I'll add him to mine also.....
As the saying goes...You can only help someone who wants help.
I am guessing that your brother may be thinking that if he is docile or the blame guy that maybe it will win her back. Not so. He needs to show a backbone. He need to have strength, honor and leadership right now. But you know that.
Here is a bit of advice my cousin gave me when I informed him about my W exposing the kids to her affair with OM. I took his advice and retained a very good lawyer. Maybe your brother could eventually be compelled to protect himself, his kids and his dignity...
Oh JEEZ!! Good Gawd that's a shock.
I'm sorry to hear you've been going through so much cr@p. I know that what I'm reading about here is just the tip of the iceberg.
As you know I've been around the block a few times. I also have spent a lot of time around the job box with construction workers, the majority of which seem to be divorce prone, so you might imagine that I have heard all kinds of horror stories. I've written a couple myself. If there is one piece of advice that I would give you, is strike hard and strike fast.
Do NOT show mercy in the beginning. There is always time for that later if she comes around but keep that big gun loaded and cocked.
You WILL regret ignoring these words.
Be the exception to the rule. Don't be the guy (because there are lots of them) that says later: "I wish I would have listened to you but I didn't think she was like that"
Or "I really got f'd" "I should have" ...blah blah blah. I'm not saying hammer her right out of the gate. But you need to be prepared to do so in the office with your lawyer. You can always call him off if things don't go your way but it doesn't work the other way around.
I'm talking change the locks, file restraining orders. LOCK her out of your life until YOU can dictate how far back into your life and your wallet YOU are willing to let her into.
Is he active in his church also?
No, not at all. He's been agnostic for many years now. That was even one of the flimsy reasons SIL stated that she found impossible with my brother. I agree it's a problem, and I have been trying to work on K for some time now, using some subtle logic from Christian Apologetics and helping him to open his heart to what God can do in his life. But no, even if he remains an unbeliever, the Bible does not support SIL's rationale for ending their M.
I did suggest C. In fact, I told him that they both are in serious need of C'ing. She took him to
her personal IC, but that was all to just convince K to accept SIL's side of things. She and the IC now have my brother
convinced he has Asperger's and too damaged empathically to be married in the first place. My brother needs his own IC, someone who is not so obviously biased in favor of SIL's schemes.
And no, K is
not AS. Of we three brothers, he's the one who has always had close friends and fits in with so many people; no social ineptness, and very sensitive to others. I used to admire his rapport with his children.
But to hear him now... he thinks he is so messed up. They have done such a number on his head...
Thanks, I appreciate, Kerry. You're right. If my brother doesn't want my help or my advice, I can't help him. All I can do is stand by him and wait until/if he sees he needs help. I suspect though he will be more likely to turn to friends who don't really have a moral compass and adhere to more worldly views about M and D.
My brother doesn't need the advice of unwise people, be they friends or not. He needs to C'ing and he needs legal representation and advice.
Hey Code..
It's sad to read about your brother's situation and I can understand your helplessness in watching this train wreck.
Individual counseling would be very helpful in this case. I've had counseling in the past but had to be repeatedly whacked over the head even after finding out that the former spouse was living with his mistress to finally go. The encouragement came from all sides. The message I finally heard, "You have a choice in how you process this.. going to a professional and using the tools provided or mucking through it on your own. If you had a broken bone would you try to fix it yourself or go to a doctor. Your decision."
May I suggest you stop trying to be the avenging angel and DB your brother. He needs someone to listen to. He's in a world of hurt and confusion. Two of my siblings were great during my divorce. Another brother who was just as wise wasn't. He let his own emotions cloud his concern for me. And tried to tell me what to do, rather than help me see things as time went on. Things I didn't want to see or hear.
What was so helpful was how my other siblings treated me. Gave me gentle direction with matter of fact statements.
Stop beating the dead horse.
Your spouse will never validate what you're doing right.
Your spouse is no longer your emotional confidant, or else he wouldn't have gone to her.
He loved you to the best of his ability.
Reality is never as bad as what you fear.
The best is yet to come.
Read up on
emotional triangles. Identify your role. Break the cycle.
Be his brother, not omnipotent. Support him so he has the confidence to grow. Plant a seed with a single positive statement when you talk to him and let it go. Do not judge.
Look at your own anger now. Are you in counseling? If so, is it a counselor who you feel you can control? That's not a good counselor. Find someone who helps you.
That happened to me. In learning to trust her I was able to go in with no ego. My counselor's repeated "Get in a good place to make good decisions" turned the corner for me. She wasn't out to get me, she was there to help me. Heal thyself first.
You're worth it.
Something that got over my fear of going outside my belief in marriage was "consulting a lawyer to learn my legal rights." Nonthreatening and a learning process. And something that provides understanding on custody.. which is usually a wake up call for a committed parent.
*hugs*
Thanks, Gyps,
I am way ahead of you on that, but what you have advised bears saying anyway.
I am conscious of the possibility that I am projecting my own anger onto my brother's sitch. I know that, and to a degree that is indeed true for me. I realize that I let my emotions get the better of me the other day, even as it was happening and even though I did not want them to because I new that would be counterproductive. And yet I was so shocked to hear how far he had fallen, how adamant he was in his self-blame. It felt as if at least one of us should have expressed some outrage at what was happening.
I see in him the same reactions I had when I played the enabling fool and scapegoat for my wayward spouse's selfish, harmful behaviors. I see the guile in my SIL for what it is, just more of the WAS script. And yes, I felt the offensiveness of these events all over again. Especially when I consider what this is going to do to my nieces and nephew, who are great, wonderful kids who deserve none of this senseless waste. It is so needlessly unfair for them to watch their parents sacrifice their family on the altar of selfishness. It does not have to be this way.
But I actually pity my SIL and where she is headed.
I honestly believe that in 99% of these cases that the desire to destroy one's family as a means to one's own happiness is ALWAYS a fruitless effort. Blaming one's spouse for your own dissatisfaction with life and ending the R as a possible solution is a siren call to disaster. You do not get true joy from other people, even from a spouse; you can only find that in yourself by giving to others. This is what Jesus leads us to do, because such joy comes from our Father ultimately. There is a spiritual dimension to this that we all tend to take for granted. So, if you are dissatisfied in your M and in how poorly your life has turned out, do not look towards your spouse for the blame -- look at yourself. And then change yourself, not your spouse.
And I will daresay that those who do manage to find lasting joy after divorce only do so in spite of D, never because of it. This only means that they have some how managed to change themselves, through a spiritual attitude adjustment, but which could just have easily been achieved within their M, if they would look at it honestly. The keys are in our own hands. We just have to humble ourselves to be able to find that joy.
But I cannot be my brother's keeper. That is why I have backed off from him, given him his space for a time. I can and will advise him as he allows. But he has to figure this out now on his own. And though I can see that he is headed for a world of hurt, and that he is likely to flip dangerously 180 degrees in the other direction, once the reality of what his W is doing to them hits him, I can only help him so much. A man's got his limitations, as I always like to say.
I did speak with our mother later on Sunday, and we discussed some of the things my brother K had said. She is very sad and angry for her son and what he's going through. She asked me (not for the first time) whether she should follow her own instincts in this -- to say something to SIL and the IL's about how wrong all of this is and to defend her son. I told her no (again), and asked her rhetorically what exactly that she might hope to accomplish. Nothing she would say would have any positive outcome on her actions, so why bother?
My mom then stated (again, not for the first time) that she wants to tell my brother to wake up and start defending himself. She said that she wants to tell him he would be an utter fool and a coward to not defend himself or by at least seeking out a L for advice on custody and his other rights. She at the very least wants to knock some sense into his head that he is risking the love and respect of his own children.
I told her that I wholeheartedly agree with her opinion, but K was just not there yet -- he won't even acknowledge any of the fault in his W, let alone begin to discuss hiring a L. All my mother would do would be to further anger K and alienate him from her. I further reasoned with her to play the role of the "good cop", while my other brother B and I play the roles of "bad cop" with K. He needs her to just love him and be his mother, to not pressure him anymore on his deteriorating MR and the destruction of his family. I told her I truly understand her outrage and desperation in the face of this tragedy, as my own instincts are also to go at them all with both guns ablazing, so to speak. But cooler heads are needed here. My brother K, I told her, only has her, our mother, as the last line of defense -- she must not burn that last bridge with him, even if all the rest of us should foolishly do so. He needs her.
I know this is tough on my mother. She's watched the shattering of two of her sons families, and watched the steady erosion in her ability to grandparent these children, because of the selfishness of the parents. But she really seemed to get what I was saying to her and really take to heart that K needs her to be strong in a different sort of way.
Hey No Code..
I don't think there's anything wrong about planting a seed.
"At least consult a lawyer to find out your legal rights/custody.. etc."
"The initial consultation is usually free."
And we're all 'wimps' because it's easier to believe there's something wrong with us.. until we're shocked into growing real fast.
*hugs*
NOcodes,
The situation with your brother sounds awful and I hope he gets the help he needs to sort it all out.
One word of caution though- no-one ever really knows what goes on in a M apart from the two people who are M'd, ( and even then they don't always see the whole picture). Maybe there are things going on that your brother is not being truthful to you about or things he doesn't want to discuss. There may be a very good reason he is behaving as he is.
Just be a comfort for him; someone for him to be able to talk to and unburden to.
I just want to echo the similar experience that Gypsy related. My brother also was not very supportive of my attempts and hopes to reconcile my marriage. He tried to equate my wife with his ex-wife and it just was not the same. In that matter, I defended my wife and it created some animosity. It is as Michelle talks about in the first part of DR - friends and family just want to see your suffering not last and sometimes want you to take the shortcut. They dont know the inner workings of the marriage as Saffie states.
Thanks, Saff,
I've considered that too. My brother might very well be also going outside of the M, as our father turned out to be an unrepentant philanderer. If that's the case then perhaps he's trying to spare our mother seeing him take a similar route. I don't really know.
But I somehow doubt it. Something tells me that if he had in any way been unfaithful prior to the separation, my SIL would not have pulled any punches in letting us know about it -- she certainly played every other card at her disposal.
At worst, I am certain that my brother is "looking", and even anticipating the day he is actually D'ed now. Part of the reason I think he's greasing the skids for his D is because his W hasn't allowed any sex with her for going on three years now. He's been as loving and as patient as a saint with her, but I think he's long reached the end of his rope. I am certain of that.
During Thanksgiving week he and his kids visited with my mom and our younger brother, B. One evening, he went out with B to a bar in a restaurant, taking his teenage daughter along. He was openly looking at the females, entertaining picking one of them up. In the end, he didn't, but my brother B was disgusted with him for such behavior right in front of his D17. (FYI, B himself is far, far from being prudish. Quite the opposite. But as a child of D who took the brunt of it in our own parents' split, B knows firsthand the pain these parents can cause a child.)
I just don't think they really understand what message he and his W are delivering to D17 and her siblings.
S5 asked to come home with me Monday night (his mother has custody this week.) He said it when I called to wish he and his brother a good night. I kind of dodged the request (even though part of me was already wanting to drive down there to get him) because I don't think little children should be able to dictate the parenting schedule -- it could easily get out of control.
But yesterday morning, xW left me a voicemail saying S5 still wanted to spend the night at my place, and that it would be okay with her if I wanted to stop by later after work to see if he still felt that way. He's been a little mopey for the last couple of days, sniffling with a stuffy nose, like he's about to come down with a cold.
I am all too ready to spend time with my two S's -- I hate how fast they're growing up and I don't want to miss a thing with them. But I also know that it can't be too fun for xW for one of them to ask to go to me during her week, as I know how it feels.
I went by the MIL's place, which is where all of them could be found, after work. I was at least going to check on my S's and give them hugs, if nothing else. S5 saw me and was immediately ready to go. xW said it would be okay as long as I agree to allow S5 to come stay with her one night during my week.
I agreed, although I don't like the precedent this might set. I am thinking that xW figures this is more to her advantage, assuming S5 will be more willing to stay with her during my week than the opposite scenario. She also knows this tends to make S9 want to "jump ship" as well, also in her favor.
While I agreed to try this out as an experiment, I also expressed my reservations about letting them have full say in who will have custody over them on a given night, and that the children should be made to understand that the agreement of their parents takes precedent over their wishes. I said that it would be better for them, as small children, to understand and respect that this is the arrangement their parents have made for their own sake. I looked at xW and asked her whether she agreed or not.
xW said no, and before she could say anything further, her mother, the evil MIL, chimed in saying it's perfectly fine for these two boys (ages 9 and 5, mind you) to be able to have a say in who they want to spend time with.
That rubbed me the wrong way -- but I managed to repress my instinct to respond to MIL in her interruption. I wanted to tell her to shut up and mind her own business -- she is not one of the parents here, despite what she might think, and she is thus way out of line.
Instead I ignored her and focused on xW who was now parroting her mother and agreeing with her.
What this tells me is that they have now cooked up this idea that they can seek some form of advantage by allowing S9 and S5 dictate the actual parenting schedule. Folks, that ain't gonna' happen. I won't let it. All that would do is open the floodgates to both xW and her conniving mother trying to coerce these two small boys at every opportunity to jettison the parenting schedule. I love my S's and want them to learn responsibility for themselves, but they're too young right now, and abdicating my own responsibilities in raising them is no way to begin to teach them their own.
So while I have agreed to a trade of nights as a one-time, maybe occasional thing, so that each of our sons can get some one-on-one time with each parent, I have no intention of letting this become a regular habit.
I took S5 home and we had a good evening with each other. He chose to have pizza for dinner and we watched one of his half-hour shows, then we read a Batman book he had chosen from the public library for his bedtime story (he
loves Batman, what can I say?)
He really seemed to enjoy the one-on-one time, and I certainly did too. I am thankful for the both of my S's, and cherish what time I have with them. Last night was an unexpected pleasure.
I totally agree to your sticking to a pretty consistent schedule and not letting the kids dictate.
Sometimes though, it is good to have one on one time and that is usually not specified in a parenting plan. It is great if parents can cooperate and do that. Because that is how it works when one is married - they dont always do everything with all their children. Plus there are conflicting schedules (ie birthday parties) and you have to be flexible to work as a team.
nc~ bumping you up...
How is it going with your brother?
How are the kids doing?
Hi, (((((Irish))))),
I've been quite busy and just took a lunch break to lurk my way around the threads, see how everyone's doing. I have my S's this week and we're in the big Pine Wood Derby mode -- scrambling to get our entries ready before the last week of this month. xW is being her usual self, which I am trying to not pay any attention to. And I am struggling to re-budget my finances and to get my financial house back in order (that's going to be a very long difficult path, BTW. <sigh>)
I've got a dinner party I and the boys have been invited to for tomorrow evening. And Saturday is my bible study group meeting -- we're starting Max Lucado's book on the gospel of Matthew -- combined with a pizza party.
So all-in-all I have a full schedule and no money to do anything else anyway. LOL.
I spoke with my brother on Saturday. He thinks I was mad at him for hanging up on our previous call. I wasn't and I apologized to him for him thinking so -- and for busting his chops so fervently on how he's letting his family disintegrate. In this conversation we each got a bit off our chests while stressing we wouldn't be so passionate about our positions if we didn't love each other and our families. I let him know I want him to at least seek some form of legal advice, but he is adamant he doesn't want to get into a legal battle with his WAW. I responded that there's a lot of middle ground between those two points -- seeking a free first consultation is a long ways off from a huge court battle that he is fearing should he try to lend any focus to his own standing.
It was a long conversation touching on several points. It included me asking him pointed questions to detail why he asserts he is solely to blame for his M's failure. It is none of the justifiable causes for ending one's M that I listed for him -- mostly he feels his W deserves "happiness" that he believes he cannot give her. (Whatever.)
I will continue to dialog with him and get him to open up more and more about just where he's currently at, and to offer some points for him to ponder and tidbits of wisdom for him to chew on.
More to come, I am certain.
Hey NCB, you're sounding much more relaxed these days. Good for you.........good for your boys. Keep it up.
Hey No Code..
First, I do not have the custody issues you have. But prudent flexibility in regards to time together is a good thing.
I think it's great you two worked out a way for your son to be with you. It comes down to shared flexibility. Having time alone with your son also meant she had time alone with your other son. It was a win/win. And kids having alone time with a parent is very good.
Automatically having to give up a your or her time with your child the following week goes against the give and take of being parents. If there's an exception to the custody schedule, it doesn't mean losing time the following week.
Flexibility allows for those tweaks in life. If one isn't willing to be flexible, then the official custody schedule goes into place.
Things come up. Kids have have all the say they want, but they don't make the final decision. That's the job of the parents.
Flexibility breeds flexibility. Kids are not possessions.
*hugs*
nc~
Im glad to hear you are a good"busy" .. keeps the mind going.
Also, im happy to hear you cleared the air with your brother, im sure he will come around, sometimes its like your in a state of shock when this stuff happens and you can't think rationally.
Take care and have fun with the boys!!
Hi NC,
Hope you have a great weekend!
Thanks, all,
Another crazy, busy week -- I am so thankful for the three-day weekend to recuperate, although I may be faced with working from home on Monday just to catch up on projects at work.
I'm without my S's this week, starting yesterday. This week I had the boys. xW has made it a habit to show up at my place on her way to work -- right before I am loading our S's up in my car to take them to school/camp -- so as to give them a hug and say good morning. She's acting so darn anal and paranoid thinking they can't stand to be more than 24 hours without her physical presence. She calls first, to ask permission, so there is that positive sign of courtesy-- but she's already pulled into the parking lot outside when she does so, so it's kind of silly as well. It has begun to annoy me, but I say nothing and let it go.
Thursday night I found that S9 has come down with psoriasis or some other dermatological condition in his scalp. I got him some shampoo with tea tree gel to help treat it. It looks like I and his mother will each be shampooing and treating his hair and scalp for him ourselves for some time to come.
xW, when I let her know about S9's new development, disparaged my getting the medicated shampoo & conditioner, saying it might be too drying for a child's scalp, but I told her it is what our barber recommended. xW scheduled S9 to see the doctor next week, so the pediatrician will make a proper diagnosis. XW made this back-handed comment that S9's condition is probably "environmental" -- meaning my apartment and me in particular. She's standing in my very living room as she's saying this (having given the boys their morning hug, you see), so I know exactly what she is implying, that this is my fault because it was discovered on my watch.
Whatever. I've learned by now that she will always assume the absolute worst she can about me. She will turn the most positive things about me and make them into the most negative in her sick mind, so total is her self-propaganda.
Nothing I can do about that. She is what she is.
NC,
Big plans for the weekend? If not, I could use a prayer or two. Come visit if you have time. I'm in Separated. Also on fb, but perhaps I'm clueless on RL names. Note: Hus is watching my fb, so very limited DB references, please. Peace.
Goldey, the rockstar-super-warrior-princess
p.s. Don't forget to take some time just for you today.
why is she in your living room? jeez! what an anal person
Well, one thing I think you should do is NOT let her in your house! If she wants to hug your boys outside, then fine, but allowing her to come in and abuse you verbally or criticize is not ok (and has she ever gone very long without that kind of comment?).
No, you can't change her. I read recently one theory is people like her do that constant criticism due to avoid the finger being pointed at themselves. Or maybe it's projecting, or whatever. My X was just emailing this week about me not being able to accept responsibility for my mistakes (just a little projection there, huh?). You can't do anything about it, but I think you should have firmer boundaries. No letting her in your house, end a phone call as soon as she insults or abuses you, Just email her the facts about your kids, no debating or defending or addressing her personal attacks.
You can't do anything about her and her less than positive parenting behaviors, I think other than pray for her, and trust in God to work everything out for the best. I know it will!
Hi, all,
Yes, xW will step into my foyer, just as I might step into hers when at her place, for whatever reason. I normally don't want to cross the threshold, but sometimes I am forced to take a few steps inward, mostly because of something regarding our S's. The same thing happens to her, but she doesn't seem to have any reservations about doing so when the opportunity arises.
There was one time last week she came in through the front door and S9 at one point was enthusiastic about having her see a calendar hangin uo in my bedroom. All of a sudden he was leading her straight for my BR door, and she was following right behind him! I stopped them dead in their tracks with a loud "Hurrumph!" and clearing of my throat. That got their attention and I told S9 to just go fetch the calendar and bring it out into the living room instead. Privacy invasion averted. But Sheesh! I know xW has zero respect for me and all, but to casually ignore my privacy like that!
S9 is so naive. It sort of reminds me of the common myth about vampires -- all it takes is for one foolish or unknowing member of a household to make the mistake of inviting the blood-sucker in your door for the monster to be able to act against anyone therein.
In retrospect, it felt just like S9 was letting the wolf into the fold. Until then, I didn't care that much about xW entering into my home, as necessity requires both of us to be a little flexible in that regard from time to time, for the sake of practicality. But I've got to now watch them all like a hawk whenever she visits.
I had a fairly quiet weekend. Went to another bible group study meeting Saturday, combined with a pizza baking party. That was fun. Sunday and Monday were more quiet -- mostly doing housework and working on our Pinewood Derby (PWD) cars. Had a scout meeting last evening.
Once we get through the PWD (coming up fast, at the end of this month), I'll begin planning new GAL activities.
This might not quite count as a GAL activity, but one thing I have been working towards is to be able to one day self-publish my fictional works that I've been writing. I'm getting very interested in eBooks and electronic publishing. I am convinced that this, in some form, is the future of literature.
S9 and I got his car finished last night. The races are this Sunday.
I am guessing that you got the vampire analogy from "The Lost Boys".
I had a similar experience quite a while back. XW and and OM came by to get a train table I had out in the play house. D7 and (GF's D5) were outside talking with XW while OM and I were moving the table. They invited her in the house. My GF was on the computer and XW came right up to her to make introductions. My GF told me later that it was a very awkward moment and I apologized for my lapse of keeping the vampire out of the house without my invitation.
Heh, maybe I need to get a few crucifixes and hang them on the face of several doors.
I think the problem with you being flexible with your X is that your X will frequently overstep your boundaries (almost always?). New rule should be not going in her house, or letting her in yours. Your S are old enough to come outside by themselves, don't you think?
NC, where are you??? Hope you're doing well!!!!
Hi, Karen,
Sorry, I am here, just darn busy. Too much work, too many things I need to get done. I need this weekend off but it's the last one before the Pinewood Derby -- S9 and I are going to be pretty busy with that. Just wish the darn weather hadn't taken such a cold, wet turn. As LWB used to say, blecky.
I am having to agree with you on xW staying out of my home, or at least keeping her from getting beyond the foyer. I have been very conscientious of her space whenever I'm at her door, but going forward I will endeavor to be even more careful. xW seems to have adopted this attitude that anything that belongs to me is either irrelevant or is hers to do with as she pleases. Control freak that she is.
One more day of work this week. Can't wait till the day is over (terrible thing it is to wish even a moment of one's life to pass.)
Hey Code Man..
Why not set a boundary about how much access she has to your house? Keep it simple and tell her. And share with the kids where it's not appropriate for Mommy to be (like Daddy's BR).
Hi, Gyps, perhaps so. But either way I think I need to just stand guard against her intruding further whenever she visits.
...
I don't know why I'm still awake now. I am exhausted from a very busy weekend with my S's. Mostly us working on S9's pinewood derby (PWD) entry. But things with work have me on edge.
I work in IT for a large corporation based in Charlotte, NC, but with branches all over North America. I work for a division that serves customers in the Triangle area of NC. For the last three years or more we have watched as the corporate offices have centralized more and more of their operations and control. We've gone from a division with a great deal of autonomy in serving our local customers, to one that is becoming increasingly regional in its practices -- as such there is continuing consolidation of operations. Our IT group is starting to merge with those from other divisions, to operate with our counterparts across our region (the Carolinas) and corporate-wide. The IT teams from our region have been working well to coordinate our efforts together as a wide-spread group, while each team still serves the immediate needs of our local customers at the same time.
Since last fall we were placed under a regional VP of IT and the indication is that we were going to embark on a long difficult project of merging our databases and application systems into one regional system. We could easily see this as an effort that would take up more than a year or two of development and implementation. Nevertheless, given our professions we had assumed that all the divisional teams could perform these tasks remotely and without any problems. At the same time there was a reshuffling of our entire management structure from one based on geographics to one based on functional areas. This change in structure meant that managers were now going to be reassigned/reassessed, but there was no indication that this would impact the rank-and-file employees. In fact they had assured us last Fall that we were all desperately needed for our skill sets and we were thus secure in our positions
Well, Friday this all changed. It appears that the Regional VP, despite the nature of our high tech jobs and despite any earlier assurances, has decided he wants not only his upper management to be based in the corporate offices in Charlotte, but eventually the entire management structure and even the rank-and-file folks too. They made a call out to everyone in all the divisional IT offices to see who would like to go ahead now and relocate to Charlotte (some 3 hours away). The story was that they had office space available and needed volunteers to relocate. The other part of the story is that eventually the VP wants all of us there. No one can tell us how long "eventually" means.
Most of us are now speculating as to how much time we might have before our jobs move to the corporate offices. Until Friday, I thought that if such plans were to be fulfilled we wouldn't expect any pressure until at least two years or more, and certainly not before the divisional merge was completed. But these latest moves have me thinking they're moving awfully fast. I'm not sure I have six months, much less a year, before they ask us if we are willing to go to Corporate. Out jobs will move certainly, but it remains to be seen whether we'll go as well.
Naturally everyone is trying to think what to do. We have ties to this local area and it's not easy to pull up stakes, if/when the time comes.
I am stuck. The funny thing is that I am in the process of getting myself moved, but only locally. I actually have no permanent stakes in this area, when I get right down to it. But I am obligated to be an active parent to my two S's, and they are now anchored to this area by their mother. She will never let me take them away from here, and I must live where they live. So while I could entertain (and partially welcome) leaving this place with it's sad memories behind me, my automatic answer is no.
And with my finances so strained right now, the prospect of eventually being out of a job, in this economy, has me quite concerned. What I see on the horizon coming at me is not too good.
Right now I need to make myself go to bed.
I'll pray for the job sitch, however, it may be a blessing in disguise. I am reviewing my hometown sitch as well, to see if it makes sense to stay in Portland for more than a year.
If the job is moving, you're either looking for a new place to live, or looking for a new job.
God will let you know.
And thanks for the prayers. Goldey
Thanks, Goldey. I really hope you're safe and secure now.
This might prove to be a new opportunity, but at the risk of sounding pessimistic, I have my doubts. I have already sacrificed much of my advancement prospects with this company by committing myself to father my two S's. As a result, I am now taking orders from a couple of people who would have been subordinates to me had I remained in management. Meanwhile I'm watching the painful cliche of people starting to crawl over each other to jockey for positions in the reshuffling new management structure. I am anticipating that one or more will use me and any other rank-and-file folks as cannon fodder in their efforts to wage their turf wars. I'm already seeing my boss start to pull advanced projects that I developed years ago as a manager away from me so she can have me focus on more mundane stuff. It feels like I am being sidelined so that my accomplishments and expertise don't overshadow less-seasoned management.
I hate office politics.
But I am confident that, come what may, God will make good use of whatever happens and prepare me for where he wants me to go.
...
I picked up S9 at their grandmother's last evening -- xW mother, the evil xMIL. I had brought S9's cub scout uniform for him to change into for tonight's meeting. While we waited for what seemed like forever as S9 changed his cloths in MIL's bathroom, we traded pleasantries. It seemed cordial enough, or so I thought. That is, until at one point xMIL showed me, with glee, S5's handwriting practice they had worked upon that afternoon. She had had him practice writing several names of people he thought important to his life. There were all the usual names writ large on the elementary ruled paper along with S5's attempts underneath to imitate the words and names initially modeled by xMIL's handiwork. The names included their mother's, S9's name, S5's name, their grandmother's (xMIL), ... but not my own -- no mention of "daddy" amidst all these names and family member titles.
That did not bother me -- what bothered me was that there in the very midst of all, standing out (to me at least) like John Hancock's overbearing signature in the signing section of the American Declaration of Independence, was the very name of the OM.
I said absolutely nothing and tried to be as nonchalant as I could muster. My heart must have skipped a beat however. I quickly put it behind me, but I was more than ready to get out of there at that point. I then spurred S9 to complete getting his uniform on and we got ourselves out and under way. And I got pretty busy from that point and put it all out of my mind.
But then I got up this morning and it struck me hard. I felt again the pain of betrayal and MIL's underhandedness in purposely working to wreck my M for her own selfish purposes. I recalled how she had coached xW to cheat on me and take up with OM, how sinister she was in trying to eject me from my family. And then here she was boasting on S5's handwriting, as if she were some normal, conscientious adult who had meaningful, qualified teaching skills (which she most certainly does not) -- and all the while rubbing in my face the fact she's subtly coaching my S's in to disregarding me as their parent and substituting me with her approved usurper.
My thoughts again are that I need to have MIL removed as a caregiver to my S's.
xW has tried to make me out to be insane and unreasonable in objecting to her imposing her mother on our S's. But this was clear evidence that they are both subtly and surely trying to alienate my children from me. Their war against me is still ongoing, and I must never drop my guard.
Why, I ask, do people seek to be so evil? Even to seemingly derive pleasure at their hurting of others? And to then try to instill that into the hearts and minds of innocent children?
I don't get it. It saddens me to think that such malice that they harbor will ultimately damn them to oblivion. I pray for these people, for what may be left of their souls, but it wearies me so much at times. I'm not strong enough for my own sake to be able to consider for long such blackened hearts. It's too much for me.
I'm just glad that God can and does bear to consider our sins.
She really is evil. I can't understand someone that would do something like that; sounds like she's attempting to brainwash your S. Two thoughts: you need to stay away from going into your X's house! That would have prevented that wouldn't it? Try to encourage your kids to be ready on time, and then when they aren't, wait outside. Stay away from the toxic they spew. My other thought is if you see that kind of thing again, for example her handwriting practice with OM's name, (
) then I would keep it for legal purposes.
Hey NC..
Don't take it personally.
Leave the assumptions behind.
What happens in their grandmother's house is none of your business.
Focus on where you are now.
About the job..
Are you obligated to be a father, or do you choose to be? If you were married would you options be any different?
Casting blame around only muddies the water.
Look at yourself in the mirror.
Stop worrying and projecting how you feel others are out to destroy you.
Go from there.
Try the Four Agreements..
And a personal favorite..
If it's right, do it.
If it's wrong, don't.
If you can't decide or waffle, don't.
Take a "Blame Off" day. No blaming anyone, no castigating, no railing, no feelings of victimization. Do it for a day. See what it feels like
Keep it simple, my friend.
*hugs*
Goldey,
I am reviewing my hometown sitch as well, to see if it makes sense to stay in Portland for more than a year
Im planning on moving to Eugene, and your thinking of bailing out? No fair.
Hi, Gyps,
I agree with some of what you've said, but the suggestion of applying the Four Agreements presupposes that I am uncertain of xW's and xMIL's intent. Let me be absolutely clear -- I know for certain what their motives and intentions are. I am assuming nothing. I have each of their patterns of behavior, words, deeds actions going back well over twenty years. I have xMIL's own admissions about previous husbands she's done this to. I have xW's own history.
Please don't assume that I am assuming.
Secondly, "blame"? Huh?!? To what is this in reference?
On being a father, I have chosen to be a father AND I have chosen to be obligated as a father. They're one and the same. My choice to become a father carries with it an obligation that I duly accepted. These cannot be separated -- except by shallow, self-centered people. So, again, I'm not sure what your point is.
And no, I am not being irrationally paranoid and thinking others are out to "get me". Quite the opposite. I merely observe that there are a large number of people who are out there for their own selves and will do anything they can get away with to have what they want, and they will screw anyone over who might happen to get in their way. I just happen to be in the line of fire from time to time, that's all. Otherwise they'd not give a rat's petard.
As such, I may get angry and vent, but I don't really take it "personally". I do observe the path of destruction they're on. And while they deem to destroy anyone who gets in their way, they fail to see that the real target of their destruction is themselves.
In general, I guess for once I'm not exactly sure where you're coming from.
Thanks for the hugs. Right back at ya'.
No Code...I can only comment on my sitch, and how I choose to react when chitt flares up. Take what you want...
I got a call yesterday that my STBX plans to visit S16 in the hospital on Sunday, at the same time I am planning a visit w/ several strong people who are close to S16 and care about him. His favorite teacher, a trusted family friend...good, stand-up men.
And I totally freaked out.
What should have been a fun afternoon (at the hospital, if that's possible) playing cards, BS'ing, male bonding, has now been ruined by the prospect of my STBX showing up.
And who is letting it get ruined? Me.
For whatever reason, this man triggers my fright/flight response. I can control how I respond or react to the mention of his name.
Get it?
And yes, the new apartment is wonderful. Thanks for the continued prayers for my little family.
Nc~
Hang in there my friend... your apartment should be off limits to here, only maybe to step in the doorway
I disagree about the doorway. Kat one time suggested you think about your WAS or X as if they were the mailman and treat them accordingly. Do you invite your mailman to come in or does your mailman feel free to come inside your house when he/she feels like it? I thought that was really good advice, and try to follow it. If your mailman started invading your boundaries, would you let them? Same goes for your X....Of course, I know that's easier said than done, but good way to decide if someone is invading/respecting your boundaries or not.
You certainly don't invite the mailman in, but you shouldn't let your dog bite him, either. Healthy boundaries.
I filed today. All aboard the D train...
Karen~ All I meant was maybe if NC was comfortable with the doorway that would be the line. Actually My Mailman does stand in my doorway..
But NC we can debate all we like, it is was you want, and what you are willing to allow. I personally would be ok with the doorway, like goldey said, healthy boundaries are good.
I know how crazy you exw is, ive been with you since this started, so whatever you decide im with you.
But I do think she needs to be told that your inside your home is off limits, ESPECIALLY your bedroom....
Peace
Hi, all, I appreciate all of your words of advice.
I'm okay with the doorway or even the foyer, because there are times when I have been asked by our S's to step into her foyer to see something -- or to step just across her threshold to close the door and keep the cold or heat outside. Sometimes it's a practical necessity, though I don't want to abuse it any more than I want her too.
Fortunately xW seems to have gotten a clue and has started refraining from entering unless necessary. I just wish she would refrain from trying to make it a regular habit to drop by my place on her way to work when I have the kids. The frequency is a bit much for me, and I find it disruptive when we're trying to get out the door ourselves.
But my S's seem to appreciate it, so I can live with it up to a point. And she has taken to ask my S's the night before, during the nightly call, to ask them if they want her to stop by the following morning. (Of course, they say yes.)
i agree with you, it's highly disruptive... i think it only makes my daugher sad when she sees me for a few min. the rare occasion i have to drop by to give my son something he forgot. I'd just ask her to stop if i were you, it's your day, but know what's best... or maybe you can leave a little earlier/later, he he.
My prayers your way! merging sucks, that's what happen in my company too.
As long as safety is not an issue (it is for my sitch) then you can simply say, "I don't want you to come in right now". Or, let the phone go to voicemail.
Simple, clear boundaries.
Me, I have a different approach.
"H, you are getting divorced. I never want to see you again".
Hey, got a minute to pray today? I need to be brave, and to be honest, I really don't wanna right now.
Goldey, I most certainly do have time to pray today -- for you and for everyone else who needs it. (Not necessarily because I'm snow-bound today and have no real reason to be out and about.
)
I pray for all of us, myself included, to summon the courage to face the trials we face. I know you in particular have circumstances that would dishearten even the most stalwart of people, yet you muster onward. Think of your children and let that help steel your resolve -- I know it does me.
God be with you and your loved ones as you continue to secure your lives. I pray that your H and people like him will find their wake-up call and recognize the path of destruction (including self-destruction) they are on.
Thanks, Cat, for your prayers.
The job situation can be unnerving. In all things, I am trying to take things one day at a time. That's about all I can handle. My finances are so wrecked and my debts have become so high from the legal battles that it can overwhelm me if I stop to think about them too much. And if my job were to suddenly evaporate, it would cripple my ability to stay solvent.
I have faith that I would manage to survive it, but less faith than I need when it come to the fact I might lose my S's over this. I know that I should have faith in my Lord and Savior that he will see me through -- that I must not allow fear and worry to overtake me -- but if I have to relocate to be able to find secure employment, it will eliminate my ability to hold to my obligation to my children. It would be failing them, letting them down. They need me, as their father, desperately, as a positive spiritual role model. I can never trust their mother to instill in them the morals they need for their upbringing -- I cannot trust building the foundation of their lives to her, that much I am certain. I have seen far too much selfishness, lies and deceit that she models for our S's, and encourages in them for her own sake, to think she would do anything that does not serve her own self first and foremost.
Those are my fears. Laid out before all of you to see. And I am putting my faith in God to help me stand strong.
I continue to pray she will wake up one day and see what she has done to all of us and what sad lessons she has taught our poor S's -- lies, treachery, adultery, divorce, faithlessness, abandonment of family and principles. I continue to ask God to reach her and melt that icy block around her heart, before it is too late for her.
But for myself and my S's, I cannot depend on that ever happening. I have to plan for the contingency that their mother will never really get on the Godly path again. So it is all up to me now.
It is a burden and an obligation, sure. But I don't have a problem with that, as I can do no less anyway. I love my S's more than anything else on the face of this planet. Others my shirk their duties and obligations, seek their own selfish ends, throw their own children to the wolves if it means gain for themselves, and even lie to themselves and others about it, but I will not. What does it profit a man to gain the World if he loses his very soul?
So I thank you again for your prayers. And I will do what I can to muddle through this for the sake of my boys, with God's help.
NoCode, what a terribly moving and beautiful post. I'm almost speechless. Actually, I think I am speechless.
You aren't failing anyone if you wind up having to relocate for your work. First of all, I believe God has a plan for you, and if you follow it you won't be failing anyone. I also think even if you relocate, you would still be a heavily involved parent, during summer/breaks, and everyday by email and phone.
I also think you're not giving your boys enough credit. My 10 year old just had a semi-long conversation with me Friday about how different she thinks her dad and I are. For some reason, she brought that up and I guess it bothers her to some extent. She said he left his family, he had a girlfriend while he is married, and stuff like that. She clearly knows what's going on, and I do believe she knows right and wrong. I just listened to her and didn't say anything really, and held her hand and gave her hugs. Don't know if I could have done that a year or 2 ago....and believe me God is watching over you and will take care of you and your boys.
Karen, I take from what you've said the obvious fact that you are a great parent who is seeing the fruits of your efforts to teach your children the difference between Right and Wrong. You've got a great kid there.
My two are still quite a bit young and impressionable. S5 is easily swayed, certainly. And while historically S9 has shown a strict penchant for finding the truth, he has been coerced and propagandized by his mother, the evil MIL and her cadre -- to the point that he now accepts his mother's viewpoint on D, the OM and the reasons why his family is now sundered. She continues to buy our S's off with gifts and material objects -- an arms race to which I can no longer participate. And while I would hope my S's would be unswayed by such crass bribery, sadly it actually seems to be working to her advantage anyway. (It galls me further that I am subsidizing her materialistic ploy through the CS payments I give her.) S's tend to gravitate towards their mothers anyway in their sympathies, and mine are no different.
If I were to be forced to move away to find employment, I have no doubts that xW would use this to shut me out of my S's lives. She will immediately demand the 50-50 shared custody be abolished and that she be granted sole custody, both physical and legal. I also predict she would use this to further alienate my S's from me -- fully and completely. S9 especially would react badly to no longer having every other week with his father, and take it as my abandonment of him and his little brother. xW would use his distress to convince him that I no longer really care for my S's.
When she announced the end of our M to me, she had fully expected that I would abandon my children to her. She had counted on it. When she realized that she had misjudged me (in her A-induced fog) and that I was thus thwarting her goals as a result, she was quite angry with me for not following the path she expected me to follow.
I am certain that if I were to "flee" now. regardless of the real reasons and circumstances, she would capitalize on it, resuming the "script" she had planned for me over two years ago.
I have faith in God, I do. But sometimes its difficult to discern whether taking a particular fork in the road is something He has willed or if it is something willed by something else, like human folly and wishful thinking. Right now my gut tells me that abandoning my kids to try to "save" myself would be the weaker act of Faith. As such I tend to distrust any urge to "run away" from some thing, especially where my obligations and priorities lay.
NoCode, I hope you don't mind, I posted this in the alt earlier so I wouldn't forget...I read that post a couple of times and it was, in my opinion, outstanding.
************************************************************
I needed some time to gather my thoughts after reading your post from last night.
Thanks for the assist yesterday. Knowing others were there in Spirit made it bearable.
Thank God that one is in the bag. I sure hope today is better.
Would be nice if He would just clue me in to His plan.
Apparently that plan does not include winning the Lottery. $$
Hi NC,
Hope things are going well for you.
Hugs, Yoyo
Hi, all,
Been real busy with work. Fighting a chest cold, and cough. Weary.
I just put my two S's to bed -- Fridays are the weekly changeover days, and I hadn't seen them in a week.
S9 has a school make-up day tomorrow -- for having been out three days due to snow and ice. No rest for us after all.
It's been a long grueling week. I'm not in good spirits right now. I had a long conversation with my two S's following an incident with their mother's call to them this evening.
I picked them up after work, as usual for the start of my week with them. It seems like it was no time before the two of them started talking about OM and their mother. I ignored their words on said subject matter and calmly steered us to other topics. No big deal.
But it kept popping back up. It became tiresome hearing about OM. It is all too apparent that xW constantly plays him up for my S's, always sings his praises and keeps them all focused on OM and everything to do with him. After her continual carpet bombing all areas of their day-to-day existence with words involving OM, it's no wonder that S9 and S5 are now parroting her words even to me.
I managed to hold the line, calmly and nonchalantly changing the subject each time to something more relevant to whatever we were actually doing, like eating dinner, watching a cartoon, etc. -- that is, until xW called for their regular nightly phone conversation with their other parent, in this case their mother. She talked first with S9, and then with S5. At one point S5 asked his mother point-blank about "Mr. OM" ad whether he was there with her on the other end of the line.
I was stunned, not expecting at all that either of my S's would ever ask their mother something like that in front of me. I was starting to worry that maybe xW would think I had put S5 up to asking such a question. But then the OM got on the line and began to have a conversation with S5! He was acting as if he were my S's parent, brazenly saying he was right there with his mother and that they missed him, etc., etc. (I stayed out of it, kept my cool, but it was all I could do to not pick up the phone and tell OM to STFU!)
I let S9 finish the call and hang up.
After bath time I sat them both down and had a bit of a talk with them both. I gently queried them about why all this concentration on this person, Mr. OM. I eventually got a picture out of them and I think I know what's been going on. xW has stepped up her campaign to promote her OM to my S's, to sell them totally on her and him -- and she's now telling them that they intend to get married -- or more precisely: she intends to marry OM. (I'm thinking to myself, "Whatever".)
Either way, it's no big surprise there -- but the shameless attempt to brainwash my kids is going too far.
So starts a long conversation with my two S's trying to prepare them for some possible events headed our way. We discussed what M and commitment really are, and how many people take a contrary flippant attitude towards such values.
As for their mother and OM, I tell my S's I have been predicting these eventualities and assure them they should not give too much "energy" to whatever comes up. The actions their mother takes with Mr. OM should be of no concern to them. They are to love their mother and give respect to her and the OM, but OM deserves no other consideration. He is not their parent, nor would he ever be. His friendly appeals to them should be taken with a grain of salt. In reality he may honestly care for them or he may not. I don't want my S's to put too much stock in a person who has a history of wooing both mothers and their children only to move onward later to "greener pastures". Once the knot is tied, his attitude might very well change towards them having secured their mother's affections.
We, my S's and I, talked at length about a number of things, but these are the things that weighed the most on my heart.
I am deeply saddened that their mother has preached so long and hard about never involving our children in "adult matters" -- whilst in reality she's been constantly peppering them with her views on M, on D, on adultery and on OM. Likewise she has been poisoning my S's against me with subtle words. At one point S9 started to relate to me about something his mother said to him about me. He began by saying, "She said 'It's not just that your father is a bad person, but that...'" and then he trailed off -- I asked him to continue but he said he couldn't remember, and changed the subject.
It might be that S9 was taking what his mother said out of context (I doubt it), but in any event I am convinced she is trying to have my S's draw the conclusion that I am really a terrible person who somehow deserves to have been betrayed and cheated upon. (And I have already established the fact, by her very own words to me, that she has attempted to use me as a model of bad behavior to which my S's should avert from.)
I am sooo weary.
There's no end to her treachery. Frankly, I don't care even if she marries that faithless baffoon (it'll never last -- one or both of them will cheat on the other all too soon.) I just want them to leave my S's out of their quagmire. Just let me have peace alone with my kids and away from her world of insanity and lies.
I guess my rant is over for now. Just wanted to get that out there. I know some will attempt to read me the riot act regarding the OM and defend him as a stepparent. Whatever. I'll warn you I'm just not sympathetic to arguments about how such miscreants are to be respected as another parent to my kids. That's a load of cr*p. I've now read a number of those books about how to smooth the path for kids going through D and the aftermath of blended families. While most of them have sound advice, all of them gloss over the situation where A is involved -- and certainly don't address those cases where the OP and the WAS are morally bankrupt flakes. To many of these pop-psy books are mostly focused on greasing the skids of D under the merest pretense of what is best for these children.
Okay, now, my rant is over. Need to go to bed.
I'd be ranting too if my kids were being subject to their parent talking like that about me!!! From everything I've learned about divorce, talking and calling the other parent a bad person is one of the worst things you can do. In my case, I know my kids would be shocked; they would really think their dad is flaking out. My kids very much know what is going on, and I think that's b/c they're 10 and 16, a bit older than yours. I know even at 8 or 9, D was a bit naive and not knowing what was going on about OW. She's learned a lot in the past 2 years, sad kind of, but I guess part of divorce is learning about stuff like that.
I think your S mentioning it sounds like your XW called you a bad person, would be a great point to talk with your kids about this stuff. I like to ask questions, like in that case, I'd ask my kids well do you think I'm a bad person? Ask questions and clarify. Maybe say something like when people are upset or in a bad mood, they say things that they shouldn't. My D was telling me today one of her afterschool teachers was mad one of the children's moms had complained about them, and she told all the kids which child's mom had complained. I told D that she was upset and said something she shouldn't b/c of that. I tell her the girl (who's mom complained) might feel bad being singled out like that. Just talk about stuff.
Your XW is clearly troubled. She has to try to justify to herself and your boys some of the poor actions she's taken these past few years. If you're not a bad person, then what kind of person would she be to do all the stuff she's done, right? I do believe that talking isn't the crucial thing, but modeling the right behavior. Your kids will realize more and more as they get older. Have faith.... (((((((nc))))))))
I am really feeling bad for S9. Had a long conversation with him driving home from our cub scout meeting this evening, and then thereafter until bedtime.
S5 had, at the last minute, opted to stay the entire night with his mother. Earlier he had specifically told me that he wanted to return back with me and his older brother after cub scouts -- that if "Mr. OM' was there with his mother, then he wanted to definitely stay with me instead (that was surprising to me). Immediately thereafter, as S9 and I were leaving the MIL's place to go to the den meeting, we saw xW pull up in her vehicle to pick up S5 -- OM was driving her in her (our old) minivan. That told me that xW would indeed be in OM's company tonight, and S5 had said he didn't want to be ther with the both of them -- I think because his mother is more focused on OM in that case.
Thus I know xW must have bribed S5 with something to get him to change his mind. Probably yet another new toy. Yeah, she does that.
Back to S9. He said something to me that's been sticking with me. He said that he now knows that his mother has been lying to him and his brother. He said she had always told them, for a long time now, that Mr. OM was "only a friend" and that she was "never going to get married again", that she was through with M.
But now that she has started talking about OM and that she plans to marry him, talking more and more everyday about it, S9 now realizes that his mother has not been honest with him -- that she is indeed a "liar" because she had been planning to M this person despite assurances to him and his little brother that she wouldn't ever do that, with anyone.
While I can say with all candor that part of me did feel some sort of vindication, my chief reaction, held in reserve, was one of anger and disappointment and sorrow for S9's sake. Why do we parents shave to abuse the trust of our children like that? WTH is going on with xW, and how can she live with herself?
My response to S9 was an attempt at consolation. I told him that his mother would not appreciate being called a liar, and I advised him to respect her -- at least enough to never, ever say something like that to her face. I said her reaction would undoubtedly be to deny that she had ever lied, but that she had simply "changed her mind" about OM. But I could tell S9 was going to buy that argument, should his mother ever try it. He added that he could tell that his mother had all along been working towards this, despite her claims otherwise.
S9 then said that he knows that his grandmother, xW's mother (the evil MIL), had also been coaching he and his little brother to accept OM as part of the family. This shocked the H*ll out of me, as I hadn't realized that S9 was that astute. (Then again, on the other hand, I can't assume that xMIL hasn't been less subtle with my S's when I am not around.) S9 even added that he thinks that xMIL was also encouraging his mother into pursuing Mr. OM.
By this last I was (secretly) flabbergasted. I asked S9 point blank if I was the one who put that thought in his head. He said no -- that while I had given him information concerning his grandmother's actions, he had observed her for himself and drawn his own conclusions. He sounded a little sad when he muttered that his little brother, S5, in contrast to himself, seemed completely taken in by their propaganda about OM.
I started to ask him about xMIL's attempts to supposedly help S5 practice some basic writing skills -- and how she had at least once used it as an attempt to brain-wash his little brother. But I thought better of it.
Still despite this, S9 told me that he didn't think OM was a "bad" person. He said that he knows that I think otherwise, but he just has his own opinion. I replied that while I think he is yet a little young yet to be able to understand that some people's kindness is really a deception, I could see that when he was older he would indeed be able to discern for himself whether his present assessment of OM was accurate or not.
There was more I wanted to speak with my S about (and there was indeed ore than I have taken time to relate here), we were at a point where we both needed to stop (to get a before bedtime dessert). I am sure this line of conversation will come up again, so I can be patient.
What I take from this is that S9 is aware of much that is going on -- more than I had originally given him credit for. But I can also see that while he is very smart, there are some things that still escape him, mostly due to his youth. He still lacks the moral maturity to be able to fully understand and discern Right from Wrong, but he's on the right path. I am encouraged that he sees things more clearly than I would have thought. But I am also sad that he is finding that the veracity of his mother's words are questionable.
Oh, what tangled webs...
I am beside myself.
I just got off the phone -- trying to talk to my S's. It's supposed to be our regular nightly call.
There's a winter storm rolling into our area, as it is across the entire southeast. And yet despite this, or perhaps because of this, xW was furiously trying to pack suitcases and load my S's into the van to venture out -- to drive an hour away east to be with OM.
So she will put our children at risk just because she cannot forgo a weekend away from her adulterous co-conspirator. She claims to be a stellar parent, but our S's take a back seat to her own libido.
Never mind this is another flagrant violation of our consent order.
S9 was impeded from talking to me by xW. She got angry with him for spilling the beans. S5 didn't want to talk at all after that. xW had S9 tell me her excuse was that they wanted to be over at OM's house in the morning to play in the snow there -- said he would have more snow out his way than here. That's a bold face lie -- the weather predictions show just the opposite, as that area is supposed to get more ice and rain.
But that's just her cover story, of course. I know and she knows that she just doesn't want to be snowed in away from her "boyfriend."
The other part of this is that it will jeopardize S9's participation in Scout Sunday. xW has been harping on Scout Sunday for weeks now, sending emails reminding me she wants S9's uniform on hand for that event, as she will be taking him herself. Acts like I am unaware of these things, even when I acknowledge them again and again.
Yesterday she changed her tact again. She stated that she had changed her mind about Scout Sunday at our church. She would take S9 to the Saturday evening service at our church, but she had been "invited by a friend" to attend another church on Sunday -- she and my S's would attend there at this "other church" on that day instead. And thus she redoubled her demands that I send S9's uniform.
When she came to my apartment this morning -- yet again to impose herself on my S's as we're trying to get out the door ourselves -- she made sure to pick up S9's uniform. (She has put not even one cent towards the upkeep and maintenance of his uniform, but because it belongs to S9 she seems to think she has authority over how it's used.)
So, now that she had changed plans again this very evening and I asked about whether S9 was going to be able to go to our church tomorrow (Saturday) at the very least. He paused on the line (assumably to look at his mother), and said it wasn't very likely given the bad weather.
This is upsetting to me. She knows this, but she doesn't care if anyone gets hurt by her self-centered actions, not even our S's and least of all me.
I then apologized to S9. I told him I was sorry he was being put in a difficult position between the two of us, his two parents. I said to S9 to tell his mother that if she was dead-set on going to be with OM tonight that I would be happy to take S9 and S5 off her hands. I know that got dead air, but I said it.
Also, I know this sounds petty of me, but when xW mentioned going to this "other church" by a "friend" the first question that popped into my head was exactly what "faith" does this friend and church actually follow? The Church of Unrepenting Adulterers?
I guess this is going to be yet another time I have to contact the Parenting Coordinator to lodge my complaint and get it on record. I know xW is probably going to twist OM's arm into tying the knot, to make an "honest" woman of her (what a crock!), but this is just so wrong of her, so far beyond the type of person she wanted me and everyone else to think she was.
You know, I understand more and more, with each passing day, just what pain Hosea must have gone through, in such immeasurable patience and silence, whilst his wife Gomer did all those horrible, wretched things. How he could not end up hating her forever is difficult at times for me to grasp -- he was far, far the better person and man of God than I will ever be.
NC -
I hear ya man. Similar thing for me - D7 wanted pajama party with the girl scouts tonight, but XW was getting a baby sitter at her house so old man and herself could go out. I made the suggestion and I dont push any further. Her getting a baby sitter when it is her weekend with the kids doesn't bother me anymore. She just has different priorities and values than I do. All I know is that when they are with me, I plan to do as much with my kids to mold them before the turn into teenagers and become more independent. Plus doing kid activities keeps me young at heart.
Just a little song to put things in perspective...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbDJ5_ILxVM
sending patience vibes your way Nc, yish!
Sorry to hear of recent events. I'm not at all surprised to hear that your S9 is aware of what's going on. You don't have to tell your kids about their mom and OM; they will figure it out when they're old & mature enough.
I'm not sure that night you were talking about when S5 changed his mind was "your" night or not, but if the kids are scheduled to spend the night with you then I don't think you should let your sons pick which parent to stay with, and they should be staying with you. I think that isn't good anyway, consistency is better, and made worse by the fact it's apparent your XW is bribing the kids to ensure they spend the night with her. I think it gives the kids more power than they should have. Your S' are old enough to stick to a schedule, and I should think the parenting coordinator would back you up on that too.
I know it's irritating b/c of the crappy parenting our X's do and the over-focus on their OPs, but you have to let it go. It's not good for you; she is not being a good mom, accept it and just work on being the best dad you can be!!! Re: the boy scouts; make sure to take them every time you have them, and on her nights let it go. You just have to focus on you and your boys, and not focus so much on your X and OM. I know that's easier said than done!!! ((((((((((((nc)))))))))))
It's not good for you; she is not being a good mom, accept it and just work on being the best dad you can be!!! Re: the boy scouts; make sure to take them every time you have them, and on her nights let it go. You just have to focus on you and your boys, and not focus so much on your X and OM. I know that's easier said than done!!!
Good points. I just spent $145 to register my son for baseball, and he will probablt only get to play half the games and will miss a lot of practices, because X said "I do not agree with Baseball and will not support it." He won't take the kids to their activities if it is too far aor inconvenient for him.
Hello, all, thanks for all of your words. I can't tell you how much they help.
Kerry, that's a funny link. I've heard Misisipi Mike's work before.
Thanks for the good thoughts, Cat.
Karen, to explain: Every Monday I take S9 to his cub scout den meetings. On my weeks of custody, his little brother, S5, stays the evening with his mother, since I am busy with the den. At first, it was just until the den meeting was over, and S9 and I would stop by and pick up S5 on our way back to my place. But then S5 started announcing he really wanted to stay with his mother instead of coming home with me. I have been a fool, for fear of looking like a brute to my son were I to have denied him his mother, but now it's become a habit. xW is now thinking it needs to be permanent arrangement because S5 is still "so young and needs his mommy".
I think I need to stop that. I am coming to the mindset that I would rather I placed S5 with a sitter than put up with xW's presumption.
Thanks for the hugs.
BND, I put up a lot of expense for S9's scouting activities, for which xW does nothing to compensate. Now I am preparing to enroll S5 into the local soccer program that his older brother had once participated in -- I dare say that despite xW's nagging inquiries and prying about how I involve my S's in outside activities, she won't lift a finger to do any of the heavy lifting herself, but yet she will insist on taking all the glory for their accomplishments and insinuate herself into the special events.
Take this weekend's Scout Sunday as an example.
As it turns out, she did manage to get S9 to this evening's service as she had promised and signed up for. However she insisted on bringing the OM.
I got to the church early myself, but unfortunately I am on call for work this week. I got called away to resolve an issue. Before I left I was coming to the impression that xW would be a no-show. (I left to find a Wi-Fi hotspot that I could dial into my office and resolve an issue.)
I got back about fifteen minutes after the service had already started -- and I was surprised to see xW's minivan. But when I went inside I took a peek inside and saw that they were all seated in a row in the back of the sanctuary -- and OM was with them.
I don't know what to say. Something held me back and I could not enter the service at that point. I hovered outside in the hallway peeking through the windows and debating whether I wanted to go in and risk a scene -- especially with my S's there.
There they were in a row, their backs to me, xW, S9, OM and S5 -- and it sickened me.
I paced down the hall to gather my wits and breath some air - trying to marshal the seething anger and pain welling up within me. What hurt me most was seeing OM's arm around S5 -- and S5's head leaning his head upon OM.
I went back to the building's entrance and stood like a sentry (wearing my scout leader's uniform) and pondered this frak'ed-up world we live in. I prayed to God for calmness and strength, and I wrestled with what the right reaction should be.
So many thoughts and emotions were overwhelming me. The horror of it all. The injustice, the vile heartlessness. The sheer lack of conscience. The foolish recklessness. The offensiveness to everything that the service represented.
And I wondered at how dismally foolish xW could be in allowing someone like that get so close to these children -- without really knowing who he is. She has never even thought to run the background checks on OM that I have, or to even question the history of his frequent trysts with women with children of other M's. What drives a man to seek out, not once but three other times, married women with children? Is it not unreasonable to wonder if his target is not the mothers but their children?
I have no such evidence against OM, so I am not saying with any certainty that he is such a predator -- he may or may not be. But the point is that, at the same time, neither can she provide assurances that these easily drawn perceptions are not true. Something's just not right with this picture here, even when you put the A aside.
Okay, I know I need to stop focusing on xW and OM. And yes that's easier said than done. I am still responsible for my S's well being. But she's going to obviously marry this creep. I am dead certain that's where xW is heading or at least believes she's heading. It remains to be seen what his real intentions are. Still, knowing xW, I put my money on her ability to coerce the cretin into marrying her, eventually.
So there's nothing I can do to thwart that. Frankly, I don't really care about what she does anymore as long as my kids are not involved or harmed in any way. And there's the rub -- I don't believe for one second she has anything left in her soul that would put our S's ahead of her own desires. And as such she will delude herself into thinking OM is a good person, even if he were to turn out to be the worst of predators and a pedophile.
I wish there was some way to reason with xW, to get her to see the wisdom in discretion. But then if she were capable of that we'd likely never have had a reason to D in the first place.
I'd like to say to her that I don't want our S's to be around OM -- ever. At the very least, I don't want him ever to come in physical contact with my S's - it's just not natural and unseemly. He is not their parent and he has never been a parent -- he needs to stay away from my kids.
I would like to say to xW: For once, put the shoe on the other foot. If I had been the adulterer and if I had been the one to rip our family apart and had I been the one who was attempting to supplant her with my intended A-partner, she would react no less threatened and alarmed for our S's well being. She would be demanding that our S's never be exposed to an OW -- in fact she would be trying to sue me for full custody.
I also can't fathom how brazenly she brings her partner in sin into the church that I and my S's attend. She has no shame and no conscience. Were I to have done such a thing she would have openly asked the pastor to cast me out of the service.
I just don't get how someone can live with themselves when they have done such things, are continuing to do such things.
Right now I am too conflicted -- so I'm going to sleep on this. I will pray for guidance, for the wisdom to act or not act, for the peace and the patience to persevere, and the faith to be able to accept that God's will shall be done.
It sounds like a terrible evening for you.
I can understand your aprehension about the OM with your kids. The same thoughts have gone through my head. In fact, those thoughts happened so early on in my situation that I called him up so as to find out what kind of guy he is.
I cannot argue against what has occured to your marriage and family. It happened. Sh!t happens. What your XW and OM did is absolutely disgusting, and even though I am not religious, I would still call it a sin. A violation of basic morality and honor.
What if they do get married? And your kids have a step father. They may even call him dad. That is my reality and I am accepting it and am not letting it eat away at me. I just do the best I can when the kids are with me and they know that I am their real dad. I teach them morality through my actions and consistency. I am letting them come to their own conclusions over time as what right and wrong is. I trust that they are smart and perceptive kids.
I know you hold a lot of resentment because he and your exW are both responsible for breaking apart your family. But I think your anger towards this situation is just going to make it harder for you to heal and move forward. Some people (well maybe a lot) just dont have very high morals. But instead of trying to figure out why someone can stoop so low, you need to learn to detach more. Become more of an easy come, easy go, happy go lucky sort of guy.
It is up to you whether you want to continue to fight this in your mind. As long as you do, you jeopradize your long term happiness and become a turn off for future ladies. I believe it is so very much easier to be friends than enemies. It just takes a leap of accepting that things are what they are.
I hear what you're saying, Kerry. It makes sense to a degree, but then only to a degree.
It's become a no-win situation, especially if one has morals, scruples, call-it-what-you-like. The thing I struggle with is that I know that by my faith that I must ask God to help me to forgive those who harm me and my S's, and to seek peace for my S's sake if not my own. Christ asks that we cast out the root of bitterness -- and that is a constant struggle for me now, with every day a new offense being added to her lengthy rap sheet.
But at the same time I am confronted with the insanity that it is I alone who is expected to compromise -- and that leaves a foul taste in my mouth. Conversely, I am also charged with leading my family away from wrongful teachings and worldly values -- such that "not a hoof is to be left behind". Thus finding the right balance is difficult to discern, even if there is one.
I am still musing over these new developments and the conflict I am feeling. If I had to err one way or the other I must err on the side of truth, honor and integrity. That means that even if I wanted to just give up the fight, I am bound not to. I cannot compromise my values, at least not to the extent that peace with xW would demand. And as I have yet to find a middle ground that does not still cause me grief, I must hold the line. I will continue to pray and seek a way, but I will not cross the bounds to which I have committed to God. You see, the very sins that make up my own contribution to the demise of my M and the resulting break-up of my family, stems entirely from my weak-willed yielding to compromise, especially in the latter years of our M. I sacrificed much of my personal values to accommodate a W who only wanted her own way regardless, and I was too blind to see it. It is thus that I slowly became so materialistic and strayed from Godly ways.
So I will now only bend so much but not abrogate my convictions, even if it that will ultimately cost me. I have already paid a dire cost for not sticking by my convictions -- I think it might make more sense if I try the opposite tact from now on.
Will that mean I will end up sacrificing my chance for "happiness"? Well, I guess by most people's standards, perhaps so. I'm not in this for transient, worldly concepts of "happiness". That's not what life is about. If pursuit of such ideals is what is now paramount in everyone's eyes, to exclusion of other ideals, is it any wonder that the world is in such a sad state?
Honestly, yes, like everyone ever born, I too want to realize some happiness in my life, but never at the expense of others. Even so, I would rather learn to know the comfort of peace and joy even in the face of adversity. I am still learning -- I am stumbling and fumbling around as I attempt to learn to find joy, true joy, in life.
Will that be a turn-off to others? I don't doubt it. But then I guess those women who want to believe life is only worth living if you are happy all the time would not really interest me anyway. I spent 18 years with just such a person, who thought my sole reason for existing and for being her H was to make sure she was always happy and satisfied, 24x7. That's too large a burden for any mortal person to take on.
My struggle now is trying to prevent her selfish ways from infecting our S's. She seems to be doing everything she can, within the law, to inculcate our boys into accepting a world of compromised values. That is the pain to which I feel most -- not the A, not the OM, those I can put behind me (comparatively) easily -- it's the attempts to indoctrinate my S's and alienate them from me, their father.
In writing this it just struck me: At the risk of sounding like another geek, it suddenly reminded me of Star Wars, where the Emperor and Darth Vader are trying to turn Luke Skywalker to the Dark Side of the Force. Return of the Jedi. Their objective is to anger Luke by threatening his loved one, his sister Leia, such that his anger turns him to the Dark Side.
Perhaps the Enemy is using xW to threaten my S's moral character, with the ulterior motive of driving me to anger and bitterness, thus neutralizing my ability to carry out my convictions anyway.
Nerdy, yes, but something to ponder. (Hey, I'm the father of two small boys who are unrestrainable, implacable SW fans -- what d'ya expect?)
My struggle now is trying to prevent her selfish ways from infecting our S's.
NC, that's not your job though. You know I believe God takes care of His children, and you shouldn't be worrying about that. My X is similar to your X, but my kids have not been at all infected or whatever you want to call it; and I know yours will be ok too! Kids are perceptive and sometimes smarter than their parents; you should trust in your sons too.
I worry about my kids as well. W, her mom and her two sisters are deeply troubled people. They aren't so depressed they can't function. They just operate slightly below happy, always blaming others for their unhappiness and searching for the magic ... something ... that will make them happy.
So far, D10 is starting to worry me. She's got a lot of me in her, but she also is starting to develop self-esteem issues like her mom.
D7 is all me all the way. A clown. Afraid of nothing. Unfortunately tempermental though.
W won't talk to them at all about the D so they ask me. I'm doing my best. W thinks all kids adapt. That's true, but all kids are damaged in D as well. She doesn't want to admit that.
you should trust in your sons too.
I can only trust my children so far. Because of D, I am only able to parent them 50% of the time. The other part of the time xW is constantly feeding them with her twisted mindset.
Let's face it,
her objective is all the more easy for her to attain than mine own. Given the sinful nature of Man. She can indulge my S's with toys, lavish vacation trips, desserts, fattening foods, and leniency. She can easily appeal to their baser instincts and fulfill their materialistic desires. While all I offer is discipline and and a life of duty, work and financial restraint. Out of necessity, I am as far from being a "Disneyland Dad" as I can be, even if I wanted to be.
And I am subsidizing through these CS payments to xW her ability to undermine everything I do. She
still refuses to give me an itemized accounting for what she spends this money on.
I trust God's will be done. But I also know that He has given His children free will to determine their own choices in life. As such the Enemy assails us with every temptation and distraction to great advantage -- not for any lack in God but in ourselves.
I have personally seen too many children of good and faithful Christians, who did everything right, stray from the Faith, many yet to ever return. It worries me greatly that my failure in my M is proving to be a serious handicap to the moral and spiritual development of my children. I chose for my life's partner with utmost foolishness -- but that is
my sin, and it should not be a cost my S's have to pay.
I almost wish my two were already teenagers before this D happened -- I would wish I had had a better chance to firm up the foundation of their moral character before all this had taken place. Right now, they are still
much too young and impressionable.
And Karen, it
is my job. It is my obligation as a parent so blessed by God to have children that I must raise them up in the way of the Lord, lest they depart from it. But if I take a laissez-faire attitude regarding xW's attempts to water down my efforts, then she will succeed in instructing them that Truth is relative and subject to self-righteous determination -- totally anathema to any true moral code of living. And rather than the liberation such views falsely promise it only becomes a damning millstone tied around one's soul.
I hear and see both positive and negative results in my S's words and deeds of late. Yes, S9 sees things as they are, but he is still too young to understand them fully and to know the dangers they represent. He has outstanding powers of observation, but his mother is unrelentless in her ability of persuasion. She has done yeoman's work to try to convince him what he sees is not what he thinks. I hear the lies she has fed him in his words to me. I hear her coaching both of my S's in their telephone conversations with me -- and I can tell instantly when an answer is one she has supplied and not something they would have normally said on their own.
Shall I trust her? I
can indeed put my trust in God, but can I trust
xW? I know that I am supposed to believe that God is in control of all things, and I
do -- save that one thing: Free Will. So does anyone think that God will intercede on behalf of my S's when xW is exercising her very own Free Will -- with which God does not interfere? I cannot. That's not to say that God will not work directly with each of my S's -- but they are still much too young to make wise spiritual decisions for themselves. And that is why God commands us (in Deuteronomy, Proverbs, etc.) to lead our children until they can do so on their own.
I seem to keep repeating myself in this comment. I am struggling with this, trying to find the right balance, in accordance to myself and my S's and all these "outside" influences.
CTH, it sounds like you've been facing some of the same dilemmas.
What haunts me is that my ex is a poster child for D and what can go wrong in the lives of such children. Her own mother abandoned her and her sister (chasing after another man) when she was but an insecure early teenager. I think that has caused so much deep-seated damage to her that it has become manifest throughout her character. She is now following so closely in her mother's destructive footsteps that it gives me nightmares -- and I truly worry for the sake of my S's and pray constantly that this curse not be passed on to them.
They just operate slightly below happy, always blaming others for their unhappiness and searching for the magic ... something ... that will make them happy.
. I could have written that.
Had an exchange of words via email with xW this morning.
I gave her a brief, fair warning about the infraction from Friday night and that I would be contacting the Parenting Coordinator (PC) to let him know. xW fired back that she was perfectly right in what she did and that she and OM were going to get married within a month, so I'd better start getting used to co-parenting with he as well as her. (This is the first admission by her directly to me about her plan. I found that interesting.)
...
I did call the PC this morning. He first began apologizing for not calling me back, as xW had contacted him weeks ago about the last infraction and he was supposed to have contacted me afterward to let me know. I then briefly appraised him of the latest situation.
He set me straight on a number of things, made valid arguments, but then I had my counter-arguments. He said it was natural for me to be upset and to not want to be marginalized from a firm role in my S's lives, but he tried to stress to me that if xW marries OM it is expected that he take a parental role in that household. It depends on the degree, of course.
He asked me (rhetorically) shouldn't OM take on a co-parent role with respect to my S's. I asked him why? He asked me to clarify and I said OM would be nothing more to my kids than the husband of their mother. No need for another father in their lives, despite what xW might want.
I could tell he was somewhat sympathetic to my stance but at the same time he was trying to rationalize the situation for me, to ameliorate my reaction to these events. In particular he asked me, hypothetically, that were I to get married again, would I not want my new wife to act as a parent to my children as well? I replied, "Why? And to what degree? Is it mandatory that I have my wife usurp the role of xW in the lives of my S's? No, My new wife would simply be the wife of my children's father, not their parent -- I see xW (for better or worse) as the mother of my S's. It would never be my desire to supplant xW in their minds and heart, or to confuse the issue for them at all. The person I marry would have to understand that."
That seemed to get the PC to think a bit.
Folks, as an aside, I knew in my heart for that to be so. Much as I would love my next wife, my first responsibility (after God) is to my S's, at least until they are grown. I would want my S's to treat my wife and even the OM with respect as adult figures in the household. But I do not want them to be co-equal with their natural parents. Ever.
(Except of course, in the unfortunate demise of one of us <heaven forbid>, the other parent of the surviving couple could legally adopt the natural parent's children, if that's how it legally pans out.)
Maybe I'm crazy and unreasonable. I don't know.
The PC then tried to explain that he hoped that xW was not, as I described, trying to play "house" with our children present. "That would be unfortunate." But if they do get M'ed, he added, I would be facing this situation with their actions legally sanctioned. I told him that's not my concern so much as xW continual encroachment on my ability to effectively parent my S's and supplanting me in their minds with OM. My fear is that this is yet another progression on this slippery slope she has placed us since before our separation. I described for him several incidents including the Scout Sunday service on Saturday night and said that it is apparent to me that xW means to marginalize me over time to non-status in S9 and S5's lives. This has been xW's dream since before I became aware of her betrayal -- I have never seen her vary from this goal, except to make minor, easily-reversible concessions along the way. This M is just another milestone in her plan.
The PC said again he hoped not. He then said he wanted to contact xW today and to discuss with her these new developments, get her side of the story. He wants to talk to her and he would then contact me later today. So we left it at that.
I am certain that xW is merely going to lie through her teeth again to the PC. She has tried to make it seem that whenever I contradict her in front of the kids (or over the phone) that that amounts to me being "verbally abusing" of my children -- not her, but the kids. This is evidence that she confuses her well-being and her very self with that of our S's, as if what's good or bad for her directly effects our S's, but my own welfare is totally irrelevant in her mind to anyone.
Wow. That's tough. It's something I guess I'll face at some point.
Here's my story, bear with me.
I was 12 when my parents finally divorced. I never really thought of it much until lately, but my mom went a little batty after the D.
She was living with a guy by the time she got D. He was a nice man who loved to fish. I hated to fish and he dragged me and my sister with him all the time.
That didn't last.
Then she got married again to a very nice man who was a newspaper writer. That's what I do today so obviously he had some influence.
That marriage lasted maybe four years. I mean he was gone by the time I left for college. We still see each other from time to time. He's a county employee now.
Then she was going to get married again to another guy -- but something happened with my sister -- and that scuttled that.
Then she started dating this real nice guy while I was in college and she somewhat stayed with him most of the rest of her life.
In her final year she met a guy over the phone, he was the telephone computer repair man. She was smitten, dumped her boyfriend of five years, flew down to Kansas City and married the guy.
When she died of an aneurysm shortly after that schmuck received 50 percent of her estate and my sister and I had to split the rest. They were married three months.
Even though I got along with all but the last one, I never for a moment considered any of these guys my father. I didn't throw it in their face, but to me these were my mom's husbands.
The second husband tried a little bit to work himself into the role, but it never took. You only have one dad.
So I guess I'm saying she may try to replace you but she CAN'T replace you and her efforts will only hurt HER in the end. You must not overreact, that's when it could hurt you.
I agree with KerryK.
Wow, so much anger ......
NoCode.... I hate to say it, but I think you are shooting yourself in the foot. You may have the moral high ground, but that and 75 cents might get you a cup of coffee. When you push for things you can't win, and can't control, I think you risk losing in the areas where you are right, and that you can control. Your righteous anger is very apt to backfire.
You are not going to be able to control who your X allows the kids to see, or under what circumstances. It just isn't going to happen. Just as she can't control what you do when you have the kids. The more you fight it, the more you risk losing the time you do have with the kids. As long as you protect that time, and use it to its fullest, you are not going to be marginalized as the father of the kids.
The idea that you would ever get a full accounting of how she uses the CS money isn't going to happen, either. Do you have any basis for believing that she should have to provide that? The only way I could see her being compelled to provide that would be if there was serious reason to suspect actual neglect. By insisting on it, you could end up looking like the angry, bitter man, and that isn't going to help you at all.
You are headed down a path of driving yourself insane trying to control things that you can't control. I believe that you would be much better served to make sure you do the very best you can in what you can control.
Frakin'-A and h*ll-yeah, I'm angry!
I am deeply upset by xW entangling my S's in her affairs, and coercing them to lie for her and accept her account of things. It's not that she and I have minor little quibbles that can be so easily set aside -- she purposely sets herself in diametrical opposition to whatever moral path I guide my S's along. The constant contradictions between my parenting versus her parenting have our S's thoroughly confused. And then she has started to bring the OM into the equation as counter to me in the fatherly role to these children, using OM as her trump card against my input to my S's.
Under those circumstance, I think I am supposed to get angry.
Instead what I am hearing is calls to "compromise, compromise". I should take it in stride and let it go, throw my children under the bus and save myself? None of you could really mean that, but that's the gist of what I'm hearing.
I understand that bitterness will be self-defeating to my cause. I also know there's really very little I can do about her actions, except as I have already done, which is to lodge a formal complaint with the PC. I have repeated the Serenity Prayer 'til it has become an automatic, knee-jerk mantra for me now.
I know the anger, righteous or not, needs to be kept in check or it will eat me alive. I can see the results of xW's anger in how she behaves. I've endured her angry belligerence for so long now that it is infecting me as well. I just want her to stop, to give us both peace, but she doesn't care -- she wants my total capitulation.
My patience and endurance is wearing thin. I try to give guidance and instruction to my S's during my week, only to discover that much of that foundation has been torn down by xW during her week. I feel like Sisyphus perpetually cursed to see that rock roll back down the hill again and again.
Perhaps I spend too much time here in these forums venting about this unrelenting source of aggravation. All I seem to do is illicit platitudes about serving my own self even at the expense of what I value most.
Maybe it's time I move on.
((((nc))) Sorry about my lateness in all of this but I will sum up..
I HATE it when people say that you should feel a certain way. It is absoultey fine that you are angry you have a right to be, and frankly knowone has the right to tell you how your Supposed to feel.
I do believe in comprimise.. but You are the one doing ALL of the comprising.. it takes its toll.
This place is for venting, not judging anyone. None of us are in the same exact situation, so we don't know how we would act. Some of us can tolerate more than others, some of us have higher moral standards than others.. Some of us have been going through this a lot longer than others have. Its all relative.
Please do not stop posting... I believe what you want is to be able to vent without being judged, just for someone to listen, and if so that is OK.
It irritates me when others think they know better, or how they could do it "better" that's not what being on here is about... Ive been at this since July 1996 and all I have ever wanted from this board is support and encouragement, not judgement or condemnment.
I may not always agreed with you, and I have let you know my opinion, but it is not necessary to make the other person feel like they are "not supposed to feel anger" because after everything you have been through, I wouldn't honestly wonder if you didn't feel anger. Of course you know that it has to be kept in check, and try to minimize the stuff when your sons are around, but you already know that, no need to go into that.
when feelings come into play, its a different ball game. It would be easier for me to tell you what you should do, but doing just that is easier said than done, when you are the one going through it.
You have given me tremedous support here, and have been a good friend to me for these past years.. I don't want to see you go. That's sounds a bit selfish, but I think you have helped many of us just not me and would be sad if you go. You are a wonderful Father and Friend and tried so hard to save your marriage, I only want good things for you.
T
No code, I don't think anyone is telling you that you shouldn't have feelings about what is happening. what I do believe is being said is to slow down, look at what you can control, look at what you CAN do, not wish you could do and focus on that.
Your ex is a master at messing with you, your emotions and your kids. If you take yourself out of that equation and see what she is doing you will be better off and so will your kids. Don't try to get information(or ammunition) from them. Let them enjoy the time with you. Be that great Dad that we know you are. Take back control of your life by NOT reacting to your ex's craziness.
My thoughts are with you. Hugs, kat
I do think it's hard for some to understand; I think many people's WAS here are usually kind of normal, if you respond in a positive way, they respond in a positive or at least neutral way. I know that NC's and my WAS are not like that at all. It is tough to understand; I've lived with this now for a couple years, and I still don't really understand it. It's very tough to deal with long-term that's for sure.
NC, I hope you don't leave, b/c I consider you a great friend and support here. I know you know that!!! ((((((nc)))))
NC,
This is my first time signing on to DB for quite some time. I have lurked from time to time but when I saw your post about leaving DB I signed on -- had a hard time remembering my password!
I know living with such strife day after day after day is anguishing. I think Karen had a good point about your ex's. It makes an already impossible situation even worse.
I wish I had some words of wisdom for you but can't find any magical answers. Children need and want consistency in their life. Unresolved anger and frustration creates a significant barrier to co-parenting, that's for sure.
If she is going to marry OM, it is entirely in your right to request to meet him if he is going to have any kind of role in parenting your sons. If you can't communicate at all with your ex, perhaps it will be possible through him. (May not sound like an exciting plan but think of it as a 'back door' tactic.)
I hope you stick around. If I get the courage, I may come back. I'm about ready to throw in the towel in my M....
(((HUGS ))))
Joie
((((((Joie!)))))))
...and *HUGS* to all my friends here. (Thanks again, Irish, Kat, Karen.)
I haven't totally abandoned the DB forums as yet. But I am on hiatus, taking a break and just lurking. Other than sending a few messages via the alt, I am not really communicating as much right now. I'm just not feeling the need or seeing the purpose at this time to vent in a venue where many folks don't even try to understand anymore.
It's funny -- I don't pretend to presume the circumstances of my own sitch are normal, especially for the WAW in my case, and thus to assume I can make solid pronouncements to others of what can and cannot be done in their cases. I also have come to wonder if perhaps I no longer offer as much information that is relevant to many folks here in the DB forums -- not any longer.
But I don't know.
What I do know is that when I continue to receive advice based on false premises and projections of other people's situations and biases, I find it fruitless.
But then I can't very well blame other folks for not fully understanding the degree of insidiousness I am actually confronted with, as it took a long time for me to finally wake up to it myself. In fact, I still catch myself in absolute shock and horror at how unbelievably diabolical and over-the-top sinister my xW has become. So it's no wonder people assume I am overreacting.
Joie, I would consider trying to work with the OM if he were the sort of stand-up person one could half-way trust. But xW's OM is a lowly worm who has known my ex for over 14 years but has slinked around amidst the shadows. He's a coward who called my W a "friend" but never, ever bothered to meet me, but instead had the nerve to seduce my W. And even after the D, when they brought their R more out in the open, he still avoided me and remained hidden in the shadows. Now, after posing as a so-called "friend of the family" before my S's, he's playing the "daddy" game with them -- and allowing himself to be the pawn in xW's plans to alienate me from my S's.
As such, I could never respect such a person and certainly could never trust him. Frankly, I do not want him to have any role in parenting my S's. He is much too far from being a proper role model. If he weren't such a treacherous snake-in-the-grass that'd be one thing, but I cannot fathom what possible benefit my condoning such a scum-bag forcing his way into my S's lives would offer them. A demonstration before my S's of Magnanimity? Peace? Good Will?
Or weakness? Foolishness? Naivete? Reckless folly in the face of an obvious threat?
No. I have been much too trusting and willing to give the benefit of a doubt to folks like him in the past, and that has cost me far too much already. And where the stakes are the well-being of my S's, I am just not willing to take any such risks, especially on such an unrepentant -- and serial -- parasite.
...
Tomorrow is our cub scout pack's Pinewood Derby. And exW is trying to stir up trouble there too. S9 and I have been participating in the scouts as the core of our father-son activities. I became an assistant den leader to further my commitment to S9's participation. Now xW is threatening to bring her affair partner, OM, to the derby. I told her it was not a good idea, but she is insisting that OM is a part of the family now. And she is saying the pack meetings, the camping and the other activities are open to all family members, so she fully intends for her and the OM to participate in that with S9.
So I sent exW one last reply insisting that she was trying to encroach on my father-son R with S9, and to please "back off". It remains to be seen if she will respect my wishes and the R between me and my S's. She's already been trying to brain-wash my S's into thinking it is necessary for OM to be there.
(And I am certain she will do the same against me and S5 during his Soccer practice and games that start next month.)
If she does insist on interfering with me and my S's, she will only prove how uncaring she really is for them.
Now xW is threatening to bring her affair partner, OM, to the derby. I told her it was not a good idea, but she is insisting that OM is a part of the family now. And she is saying the pack meetings, the camping and the other activities are open to all family members, so she fully intends for her and the OM to participate in that with S9.
I wouldn't email her at all about that. I think she purposely does stuff to antagonize you; doubt OM is wanting to do that at all!!!
From what you've said in the past; you have friends there; they may treat your X cordially (although my friends at theatre and church do not do so & and are supportive of me). I can't even IMAGINE OW showing up at my church or theatre; she would be frozen in her tracks I think. I know YoYo had an experience like that; she acted like the classy person she is; and she had a similar experience too. Act like it doesn't bother you; focus on your kids and your good friends there. I expect that may never happen and certainly not a 2nd time...(((((nc)))) And btw, glad to see you post here!!!
And Joie, so good to see you posting here also!!! If you get a chance sometime; I'd love you to post an update!!!
I just got back. And yes, xW ignored my request. She brought her greasy OM, and her mother to boot (the evil xMIL).
I ignored them and did my best to carry on as if they weren't there. It irks me that he's there skulking in the background the whole time, not entirely hanging back but off to the side like an obsequious slug.
I focused on the scouts and the other parents and the various heats to the races.
S9 didn't win this year, or even place, but he took it well enough. I just wish Jabba the Hut and the Wicked Witch of the East hadn't been there to taint the event. It would have been a good learning experience and a teachable moment had these interlopers not been there with xW to anxiously cart my S's off before I've had a chance to properly recap and underscore today's events with them.
Karen, few in our scout pack know my full story, so they wouldn't have known anything was amiss. At least my behavior should not have been a give-away to anything unusual going on. You see, unlike her, I have practiced the utmost in discretion, for her benefit as well as for my S's. Though I would have done so anyway, she demanded my discretion. And yet she has used that against me to slander my reputation with neighbors, family, friends, teachers, etc. She filled the vacuum of my discretion with her poison.
I guess given every incident since the bomb I should understand that xW will never respect me or my rights to parent our S's. I should not be surprised that she would ignore my serious, fervent request and would purposely interfere with my father-son relationship-building, especially if it also means parading her transgressions against me in public and rubbing it under my very nose.
I see the Parenting Coordinator on Thursday. I am curious to see if he will recognize that xW is purposely trying to encroach on my R with my S's with this latest offense. He'll either condemn her actions, or excuse them -- if the former, then it will remain to be seen what he proposes be done about it; if the latter, then I will know he lacks the moral judgement and the sincerity by which he professes to honestly support shared parenting.
If the PC sees nothing wrong and does nothing, then all I can say is xW has established a precedent for which she will come to regret. If she wants to horn in on my special times with my S's, I will return the favor, with gusto. Whenever there is any public event she tries to cordon off for her and OM with my S's -- sporting events, amusement parks, etc. -- she'll find me there as well.
NC,
Your sitch is just as FUBAR as mine! I stopped posting as well just because what I am going through is so extreme.
The OM in your sitch and the OW in mine are a "fine" pair (as are many OW/OM we read about in DB). I would not want to trust my children to such a schmuck either. So much for my words of wisdom!
Karen has a good point about your ex doing things just to antagonize you. You certainly can't ban them from attending the events, and you'd catch h3ll if you don't tell them. At least you have a parenting coordinator to help mediate things. If that ever happens to me, and I'm forced to attend an event with OW in my sitch, I would vote to take the high road and maintain class, character and integrity.
Funny thing about your ex demanding discretion! My H is the same way. Doesn't want me talking to anyone about what he's done or is doing, but it's ok that he continues to lie and sneak around on me. I think the proper word here is hypocrite.
Karen, I'll try to post an update sometime this weekend.
Joie
Hi, again, Joie,
Yes, I too would like to hear how you're doing. I am certain others would like to hear about your situation as well.
Hugs and blessings.
Hi, all,
I have sparred with the ex via email the previous two days.
xW finally responded by text to my request for her not to bring OM to S9's pinewood derby on Saturday, as that was a special event for me and my S's that she was trying to encroach upon. She had already ignored my request and brought OM anyway. So the next day, AFTER having disregarded my request, she sent this email trying to lie and make excuses for what she did.
She said, among many things, that Saturday was
her day -- or it
would have been had she not requested we trade days. (But the concept of fairness in such deals seems to elude her.)
And then she started popping off about how I am saying nasty things about her, OM and xMIL to our S's -- all of it lies and fabrications -- basically trying to go on the offensive with me.
She also threw in her worn-out rhetoric about how my failure to do this or that caused the end of our M.
Mind you, I had said nothing yet about her disregard and disrespect for my request, and then she follows up with this bombastic email the next day.
Well, obviously, I am not the sort of person who can easily let such lies and distortions go unchallenged --
especially when she is brainwashing my children to repeat them. So I sent a reply. I rebuked her for her lying, cheating and faithlessness. I told her she was wrong for failing to practice discretion around our S's (it would have been better had she said nothing at all to them) and instead getting them to perpetuate her lies and delusions about her and OM. She's been telling our S's this fantasy that she and OM had never been anything more than friends until recently -- and that thereby their father was wrong and lying about them to everyone.
I told her that all her lies were beginning to catch up to her, and that her S's were beginning to recognize them for what they were. I told her that S9 had already expressed disappointment in his mother for reneging on her oath that she would never, ever get married again -- claiming that I had "ruined her on M." S9 said that his mother had also claimed that OM was just a friend, but that too was not true, OM was evidently more. So for these reasons S9 called his mother a "liar", using that very word.
To her credit, I told xW, I had responded to S9 to say that his mother would claim, rightly or wrongly, that she had a right to change her mind. She is his mother and he needs to respect her.
xW then shot back that she never told S9 she would not
ever get M'ed again, but that she was only "afraid" to. But now she had decided she was no longer
afraid, because of she and OM had decided to not give up on M just because she and he had "chosen the wrong people in the past".
I replied that that too was a lie, that she was
again changing her story. What she had said to S9 and S5 about never getting married again she had also said to me separately. She had from the very beginning tried to convince me that she and OM were nothing more than "friends." She had tried to play all innocent from the very outset and that because of me and my supposed psychological "abuse" of her she would
never get M'ed again.
I told her I had known better even back then, but I held my tongue. All the evidence proved otherwise, beyond a shadow of a doubt. She hung herself with every deed and action thereafter.
I said to her it was never about her and he having chosen the "wrong people" -- it was about
her and her lifelong baggage she's been carrying around and
still refuses to deal with, a life of self-deception, insincerity and an unwillingness to truly commit to a healthy R with anyone she could not control. It has to do with her renouncing her professed values and embracing selfishness, and then blaming me and everyone else if she's not perpetually "happy." She
ran from our M rather than faithfully committing to healing it, but her baggage of insecurity and dishonesty still follows her.
I asked her then did she really think her union with another unrepentant adulterer and cheater, the both of them on their third or later M, had a snow-ball's chance of making it? Did she
really think a M born of lies, treachery and deceit would last? How long would it be before either of them cheated on the other?
And then I asked her, driving the point home, what happens to S9 and S5, and what do you tell
them when/if it fails? Regarding the OM and bringing him into their lives, I said:
Why should they put any faith in your poor choices, risk their trust and well being on such dismal odds? By parable, would you let our sons board an airliner that had less than half of one percent chance of surviving the flight? Your risks aside, where is your concern for S9 and S5?
xW just replied again that she and OM started out as friends, and that it developed into more only after the S, but she doesn't care what
I might think.
So basically she plans to stick to her little fairy tale. And that what I know to be true doesn't really matter, not to her.
I washed my hands of her at this point. She's hopeless. She doesn't care what she says or does, she just wants to have what she wants no matter who gets hurt. Not even our children.
God help her.
NC, I completely understand your anger. I don't see how WAS do that kind of stuff which does hurt the children, and be able to sleep at night! On the other hand, I also think she purposely baits you/tries to keep you angry and the war going between you so she can justify her past/present behaviors. When I was having that talk at lunch today, I thought of you and your X almost instantly.
I do think it would be interesting at some point for you to do a 180. What you've been doing isn't working at least not for you and your PMA; so maybe try doing the opposite. Detach and ignore her emails. Continue to be a great dad and focus on your wonderful boys, rather than your X and evil MIL.
I'm sorry you're going through this stuff. I do think things will get better; in fact I know they will... (((((nc))))))
Karen,
Yes, thanks. I have pretty much come to the same conclusion.
My xW cannot and will not be truthful. Everything she says now, everything she does, everything she is now... is a lie.
I cannot trust anything about her. Never. I cannot make peace with her. She won't have it, try as I might. As such, I cannot ever respect her, not anymore, and I already have zero respect for the OM.
So talking to her is absolutely pointless. I can be congenial towards her while maintaining my absolute wariness of her -- just as I might "respect" a snake or scorpion. But trying to find common ground with her is just no longer possible. She has consciously made me her enemy and I am going to take that seriously from now on.
I will no longer talk to her or respond to her directly or indirectly -- except where our children are concerned.
But on that score -- where our children's interests lie -- I will defend myself and my S's, and I will strongly respond to any offense she offers -- again, as regards our S's -- in a cold business-only manner. I refuse to be drawn into her drama anymore, but I will handle any affront that involves S9 or S5 with decisive swiftness and as much detachment as I can manage.
As for myself, I am moving forward again, distancing myself from her madness. I want to be a haven for my S's, away from the storms I see brewing in her future. Actually, my coming to grips with the hard fact that I just cannot maintain even a modicum of peace between their mother and I, even if it be for their sake, I am already starting to find it liberating.
I am just not going to pretend any longer that we can co-parent as I had hoped we could have. This is just a detente between former business partners, now opponents.
Will this work? I don't know. Is this best for our children? I can't say one way or the other. All I know is that since she refuses to cooperate in good faith, the "peaceful" path is just not working. I am facing that now, and thus taking a different path. We'll see how this approach fairs.
Thursday is the PC meeting, so perhaps I may amend part of this new stance based on what he might suggest. I don't know -- again, we'll see.
I saw the PC this morning. I was over 15 minutes late because I was pulled over for speeding, which totally blew my calm (Ugggh!) The session didn't go all that well, I feel, as I really didn't have the time to get my points across. In the end, I feel it will prove to be a waste of time.
He said he would talk to xW about some of her manipulations and other controlling behaviors where they impact me and my S's. That's the good news. But because of my agitation, he said I was obviously quite angry and resentful -- rightly so, he added -- but also feeling a lot of hate towards xW. I am sure the latter, the word "hate", is precisely what xW has said to the PC. That's the story she's been trying to build against me, that I am this horribly hate-filled person -- I admit I make that accusation all to easy for her to level.
But no, it's not true. I don't
hateher, OM or the evil xMIL. I
do hate her actions, her words, her deeds. I abhor how she treats me and how she denigrates everything to do with me. It's a toxicity that has admittedly been poisoning my life and wearing away at my morale, mostly because she is so unrelenting in her offenses. But I try to separate the offender from their crimes. I
can forgive the sinner, if not their sins.
I guess I am now shocked at what my PC concluded. He does
not have a problem with someone hating someone else, at all. (In fact, he gave me an example of someone
he himself happens to have hated for over twenty years.) And he doesn't think one can truly forgive someone in such cases unless the offending party begs for forgiveness. That was surprising to hear from someone who should know better. But he said that for the sake of my S's, which is where
his real focus lies, I need to get over this hurt and this "hatred" for xW and the OM.
His solution? To have my own R, to find a woman.
He reasoned it's been over 2 1/2 years since the S, in which time I am now D'ed., and I should already be able to have R's. I asked him to clarify if he meant romantic, male-female R's ...or more general, plutonic R's. He meant the former.
That blew my mind. Not that it is
entirely untrue or that I hadn't been thinking of this myself, but to hear it from this clinical source? And one entirely at odds with all other sources of wisdom?
I started to offer a different opinion, one coached in rational restraint and sound judgment -- from all the other advice I've gleaned in this time. I stated that until I get over the anger and resentment, a new R would only be poisoned by it -- why bring another person into the equation when it wouldn't be fair to them? To me, his suggestion was like placing the cart before the horse.
I had him elaborate a bit more, but it just alarmed me the more he spoke. He feels that a person is not really complete
unless they are in a R with another person -- I started to say that sounded like a sure-fire prescription for co-dependency, but I was too astonished. He thinks that it is through R's that we heal, and that healing from a broken R is best done through another R. Everything else, regarding healing from D, he said, was just "B*llsh*t." I
again had to have him clarify that he was talking more specifically about romantic R's and not other types of R's.
I can say that I have tried to give some thought to his position, but there is a part of me that is screaming inside that he is missing the big picture here. Aside from the observable fact that his prescription is the exact cause for so many failed R's in the first place, there is something fundamentally flawed in that thinking.
Yes, we are human beings, and yes, we were never meant to be alone. That much is true -- it's biblical even. But I do not believe that romantic/sexual R's are the
only means by which we are whole and complete. I just do not accept that notion. Love can and does heal, but it takes on more forms than just Eros.
And MR's are an ideal, certainly, an ultimate one at that, but never a sole requisite for being a full, integrated person. It should not be my focus in life, certainly not now.
And my finding a new R is
not going to suddenly resolve the issues I have with my ex -- the PC even admitted as such, saying we'd likely
always be angry at each other.
I am beginning to conclude that the PC and I are on different planes when it comes to values. Though our priorities might contain some of the same things, they are most definitely not in the same order. I don't know if this is going to work out then. If the PC is for real and being candid with me (as opposed to giving some sorta' strange homeopathic advice here .. or is just pulling my leg), I would have to conclude that he and I cannot see entirely eye to eye, for which I would be disappointed. I would not be able to depend on him to defend the values that I am committed to regarding my S's, as he might not be able to respect them.
I'm still shocked and still pondering this meeting.
I have never stopped being shocked by the number of "band aid" relationships that crop up. Sorry guys, but seems to happen more with men.
If you can't feel good about yourself then how in the world would you be any good in another relationship? Now if he is thinking of moving your focus off of ex and her antics and explore the possiblities of a relationship in that sense, I can see it. You focus so much on what she is doing or has done that it doesn't leave much time for you as an individual.
I do think you need to get the focus back to that and see where it takes you.
hugs, kat
Thanks, Kat.
I fully agree that I need to shift the focus off of xW -- I'm just not convinced that using a new R, as the PC suggests, is the wisest way to do so. That path leads to Rebound City.
BTW Kat, I think "band-aid" R's are an "equal opportunity" folly. I've known lots of women who cannot bear to be without some form of R with a man, good or bad. They've pinned so much of their self-worth into having a R that they would rather have a bad R than no R. And when it is womenfolk in my family -- mother, aunts, cousins, nieces, in-laws -- and friends, it hurts to see them go through these trials.
But that's just my observation.
I agree with Kat. One of the important things I think I've learned in the past couple years is that you can't look to someone else or something else to make you happy. Make yourself happy first, figure out what it takes, and then have a R, if you want a healthy one. I don't know if that's a values issue, though. I think a lot of guys do seem to have to be in an R at all times, and I'm sure lots of women are like that, too.
I do think you should try to ignore your X as much as possible (I know she makes that almost impossible), and just focus on your boys, GALing, church, etc. Do you do volunteer work? I think that's always a great way to focus on something positive. I like to always exercise too; helps relieve stress and sleep at night too.
I don't know if you should give up on the PC yet. Obviously, I wouldn't take his dating/relationship advice, though!!! He seems like he is trying to remain neutral from what you've said, so don't know about that.
Hey No Code..
Transitional relationships distract and do change the focus from life being all about the former spouse's actions and insults to more than that. A transitional relationship can be a friendship, learning about someone new, even doing something new. Having something NEW to talk about. Having something different for the mind to focus on. And transitional relationships are by nature short but so very helpful.
It is not a lie if the boundaries are stated.
The PC and you both commented on your anger. Have you considered ways to resolve that?
Like most, I had a lot of anger toward my former spouse. A book pointed out that bitterness and anger are a mask for unresolved pain and hurt. My inner fire and brimstone weren't working, so I followed "Not Just Friend's" advice and sent blessings to my spouse when he made me angry. As counterintuitive as it sounds, it worked... slowly but surely.
Sending blessings (my first was a hypothetical herd of camels to their secret abode) relieved the anger and kept it from churning. I. Felt. Better. when I did that. When I remembered, I did it more. And it kept working.
Forgiving the sinner but not the sins is a dog chasing its tail. The sins are past. The sinner is the present. For example, I was molested my entire childhood by my father. I hated him. I was told to forgive him. I couldn't. I wanted him to suffer, to beg forgiveness from me, to show regret.
Never happened.
I went to therapy. I wanted to let it go. I didn't want to be one of those crazy people yelling at a tombstone full of unresolved anger. I kept going to therapy on and off through the years, slowly letting go of bits and pieces. But I was still had that buzz of injustice fomenting.
Oddly enough the spouse's departure and my dad's medical emergency happened at the same time. My first thought was that the two most significant male relationships in my life had betrayed me and were leaving. I'd already unwittingly spent a lifetime full of anger. I did not want that justified by the divorce.
I started sending blessings to the spouse... sometimes just the word 'blessings'. Several months later my dad and I had a conversation.. nothing big.. BUT he listened without commenting. Twenty minutes later, something poofed within. The wick was pulled from the candle. I'd been given the gift of forgiveness toward my father. And it was one of the best gifts that's ever been bestowed.
Being angry, feeling affronted, insulted is natural. Moving beyond it is difficult. Your former spouse will never validate your feelings. Change what isn't working.
A question I asked myself. Do I feel better after sharing, after writing or do I stay angry or get angrier? How do I feel later? If I felt better, more grounded, calmer, I'd try to keep doing what worked.
I know I made the wound of betrayal worse with my agonized jabbing.
Be good to you. Love you.
*hugs*
Hi, and thanks, Gyps,
The sins are past. The sinner is the present.
IF the sins were past -- and not continually recurring over and over and over again -- I could more easily have put them behind me before now. Oh, well...
I'm beginning to think it is just my lot in life to have xW continually be a thorn in my side. If I am to have any sort of meaningful role in my S's lives, she will be there to always taint it.
Case in point: this Friday, S9 and I are slated for a cub scout camping activity at Myrtle Beach, a big reward to our pack for all the hard work in our fund-raisers. Well, xW is not only going to show up down there right after, she's going to take custody of the boys and immediately head over to an amusement park -- her, S9, S5 and OM. It's like she now insists on trying to overshadow my time with our S's and watering down our time together with one-upmanship shenanigans.
I'm letting it slide, but it goes to show how lowly she will sink now. For the same reason, she wants to know everything I have planned for myself and my S's during vacation times, throughout the remainder of the year. Ostensibly this would be so she can figure out what weeks they will need for daycare or not -- but it becomes more apparent she really just wants to continue to horn in on my time with my S's.
I talked to the PC about this too during our meeting last week, and he merely shrugged his shoulders. But then he's proven to be so clueless on so many basic moral tenets that I now take his lack of understanding regarding this one issue to be just more blindness on his part. (I can just about write him off now, as he not only lacks neutrality but he is a bit worse: lacking any real moral authority. For some time now I have given him the benefit of a doubt and heeded his advice, but then he went and put his foot squarely in his mouth. That's unfortunate.)
On a lighter note, I've had some time to reflect on all this. I think I am in a much better place now. Yes. I do have some anger, but that's okay. As long as I do not let it consume me as I work it out of my system, I should be okay. I will allow my anger to work it's way and pass through me -- and I will "sin no more", so-to-speak.
And since I have given up on any hope of making peace with xW, I feel a burden is lifted from me. It is
not my responsibility, not anymore. Just like my M, I gave it my best shot. The WAS
only wants to maintain hostilities, so as to justify her treacherous and selfish behaviors, whatever the real costs. If she hurts my S's that will be entirely on
her head -- I have done all I can to either prevent or attenuate her actions on behalf of myself and our S's. I can see now I have been taking on more than was in my power to affect.
I guess I am finally figuring out that the Serenity Prayer also applies here as well. If one
tries to make peace and still your enemy insists on conflict, then you're no longer under any obligations to keep beating that dead horse, even if you know it would be best for everyone concerned, including your children. It takes two to tango, as they say.
I'm not sure why I am being so dense that it takes this long for it to sink in. My best guess is that I have allowed my emotions to get the better of me.
In any event, I had a great time with my S's this weekend. Beautiful weather! Perfect for bike riding.
A camping weekend! Cool! I love to camp. But those weekends take it out of me! I'm sure your son is going to be somewhat worn out (even if it's one night) and thus may not enjoy the amusement park as much as he may! I would have planned the amusement park for another time.
But your main point is letting go of the useless emotions. I know that is hard. I see it with my sister, who had a horrible D. Her X is still "out to get" her. I think I've told her a million times to let it go... He's not worth it.
You can't control your X -- only yourself. Sounds a bit like the Serenity Prayer!
I guess I am finally figuring out that the Serenity Prayer also applies here as well. If one tries to make peace and still your enemy insists on conflict, then you're no longer under any obligations to keep beating that dead horse, even if you know it would be best for everyone concerned, including your children. It takes two to tango, as they say.
Me, too. I struggled for a long time, and just recently am I giving up, deleting the nasty emails, and going totally nc. You can't co-parent with some people; it's just a reality. I'm not angry over that, more accepting than anything really. It sounds like you're working towards that also. Time for 180s.
Joie, that's exactly what I was thinking; the boys will be cranky and exhausted for the amusement park!!!
NC thanks for stopping by and offering a much needed hug. The boys even did a group huddle with me last night. I even timidly asked if they thought I was a good Mom. S14 with a twinkle in his eye said no, I think you are great.
kat
Kat, you ARE a good mom. Don't let anyone rob that from you, and I know it's easier said than done given how bad this can make you feel, but don't sell your own self short either.
...
I wanted to mention this latest incident as it has me a bit disgusted. It is my week with my S's this week, and as usual I dropped them off to be loaded on the bus/carpooled to their schools. xW was there at xMIL's (xMIl is their would-be after-school care provider [not my decision].)
I found out later in the day when I was at work that xW called in sick to her work -- and then proceeded to do something I find very unethical (albeit par for her course). She took our S's from the xMIL's that afternoon -- and then she and OM took my S's fishing. So not only did she horn in again on my time with my S's during my week of custody, she inhibited S9 from doing any of his home work -- as a result he had all that more catching up to do to complete his assignments before bedtime. As a result, that robbed me of any extra time I would have had with my S's last evening for leisure time.
Mind you, if I had ever done such a thing, xW would be screaming and hiring a team of underworld hitmen to take me out. I recall one time in particular when I had a Friday off during one of her weeks of custody and had asked her about spending the day with S5 since he too had no school (she was going to drop him off at her mother's place while xW went to work herself.) xW had angrily declined my offer saying that I was trying to get extra time in on our S's during her custody.
I at least asked first and then honored her wishes. She obviously can't be bothered.
I have said absolutley nothing about this. Nor have I responded to her various emails about her wanting to change up the childcare arrangements again. (Actually, yet again she wants to unilaterally dictate the terms for how childcare is to be paid for and calculated, without clearance from our L's first, let alone myself.)
I am amazingly calm about all this. She's proven to bear so much animosity and contempt for me, and she disrespects me at any opportunity she can. But I am taking my time now and am refusing to respond to her before I am ready to. She will most certainly take my carefully measured response as her opportunity to call me unresponsive or too slow to act, but whether fast or slow, she acts without regard to common sense anyway. I'm starting to not give a d*mn what she thinks or says to anyone else.
So I can see this is how we got into the situation where I would be "uncommunicative" with her during our M, as she likes to complain -- only difference now is that I am consciously
embracing it. Passive-Aggressive? So What?
I wanted to elaborate on the item I broached in my last post.
xW is now proposing that instead of me paying her CS, we should just split all of the childcare costs down the middle. She would even go so far as each of us taking one of the two boys (me S9 and she S5) and covering just their expenses, separately. She would take out dependent care coverage on one dependent the next time her enrollment opens with her employer.
The funny thing is two years ago I offered this as a solution (well, maybe not divvying it up by each child, per se) during our (so-called) "voluntary" mediation at that time. xW first shot it down and the (biased) mediator supported that objection. I threw this suggestion out again back when our lawyers were trying to hammer out an agreement almost a year later (it gained even less traction.)
Now, all of a sudden -- most likely having something to do with the fact that S5 will be entering public school this Fall -- xW is singing a new tune. It can only mean she is rejiggering the deal yet again only because it somehow now offers her some advantage.
The gist of it would mean that I would be making payments for daycare and/or after-school care during my weeks and she would cover her own weeks. Seems reasonable.
However, the problem I see with her changing this up now is manyfold. First, her original reasons against still stand. By paying for both children together and their weeks together, we each save money. For track-out care at the YMCA, it requires at least one of us to maintain a membership -- xW's rationale back then was to question why should it be necessary to force
both parents to maintain a monthly Y membership
and the associated costs. With splitting it up, I would be required to take on a Y membership myself. Furthermore, since the various weeks would thus have to be paid ad hoc instead of as a quarterly disbursement we would lose the weekly discount for paying in bulk. The cost savings to both of us were her original rationalizations against splitting these tabs in the first place.
It is apparent she now wants to make sure I am further hurt financially, however much or however little that might end up being, regardless if she hurts herself in the process. She just wants to be petty.
Likewise she is intimating that I have all along been failing to pay my fair share anyway -- saying what I pay hardly counts to offset what she has been paying to providers. And she further suggests that my having to pay these childcare expenses will force me to face my lack of contribution, as she sees it, to my S's upkeep.
I don't think she has an earthly clue to what she's saying. I've run the numbers and I've tried to explain to her that a significant part of my child support -- to which she doesn't quite appreciate -- is not represented in the monthly check I write her but by the premiums for medical and dental coverage I provide for both of our S's. She still gets a net paycheck each month that is far more than her due, as I have as many expenses raising our S's during my weeks as she does during hers.
Also, should she take one of the boys under her for dependent benefits coverage, she will be paying more for that first dependent of hers than I have been paying for a second dependent up to that point.
Added all up I can see she's being exceedingly less thrifty with money than she usually is. But I guess if she thinks she can get me to waste more than herself, she'll accept that loss.
Another thing she hasn't considered -- which you can be sure
I am, a very hard look-see -- is that
if she wants to place the onus on me for paying these childcare expenses directly instead of putting that into her hands as she
had been insisting, since forever, I will take her anti and raise her double. She is efectively, raising the bar to me taking full reigns of my daycare provisions for my S's. I fully intend to and am in the very process of shopping for my daycare providers during my own weeks entirely. xW don't know it yet, but she's now opened the whole can of worms about daycare in general -- not just the question of what mechanism we employ -- and thus the floodgates will be open: I can now provision my own daycare for my S's during my weeks, and give now heed to what plans xW has always been wanting to foist on all of us. I can carve my own path and thumb my nose at xW and her megalomania. I can tell her evil mother, the treacherous xMIL, to take a hike -- I DO NOT have to pay xMIL half of what she's getting now, as xW is trying to assume.
See, my ex has for a long time taken advantage of my willingness to compromise and succumb to her plans. I bent over backwards for her and went the extra mile, out of some elusive hope (at first) that perhaps our M could have been saved and (later) that we could have reached some form of cordiality and peace between us, as co-parents. This has been her means of leverage against me.
But
now, I am
embracing the fact that she has most certainly and willingly made herself to be my enemy ... and as such I owe her nothing, absolutely
nothing ... and I no longer have to play her games anymore. I am free now -- I no longer feel the need to relinquish whatever control she demands to smooth the road between us. No longer need I walk on egg shells.
I am giddy now just thinking that she is finally cutting the ties that have held me down so long. I'm not relishing the added expenses this will require of me, naturally, but the prospect of freeing myself from her control (and the nasty xMIL's oversight), even in just this one key area, leads me to think she doesn't know what she is proposing.
The one rub to all this is that this new proposed arrangement is not exactly in line with the wording of our consent order. I hate it, but I'm probably going to have to contact the L again to get a verdict.
good luck NC! sometimes we have to pay up a bit for some freedom..like when i refinanced the house reluctantly but now I thank heavens the home is allll mine and there are no ties to bankrupt ex... priceless!!
Isn't child support non deductible, but daycare is deductible. So aren't you coming out ahead?
NC, I don't know the specifics of this but if it is good for you and your boys then I'd agree to it. At one point you thought it was right? And if it would help you with the daycare sitch, that would be frosting. Your boys are at the age where I think they would rather be in a group situation than with the MIL don't you think? My d's afterschool has art, games, crafts, playground time, etc. Have you ever brought that up with the PC? But, seriously, I think she is thinking of how it will benefit her, but sounds like it might even be better for you?
I think it would or could be made to my advantage. The thing is I don't think it would last. I am starting to gather that the chief reason my ex has been periodically shaking things up by rearranging our childcare provisions is precisely because she can't stand to see me adapt to and get used to the current situation, whatever that might be at the time.
But I do fully intend to wrest this control away from her. From now on, I will do what I feel to be right for my S's and myself -- to h*ll with her and anything to do with her! I am no longer worrying about trying to compromise with her anymore. Attempts to be reasonable and to compromise with someone like her have gotten me nowhere. Now if her aims should happen to parallel my own, then fine, no problem -- but otherwise...
---
I just got off the phone with my S's. I couldn't get a hold of them last night -- I assumed that with them all being still down in Myrtle Beach her cell phone must have been dead or off.
But when I reached my S's tonight, I tried to catch up with them but they didn't want to talk. I had been bracing myself to be assailed by all the wondrous fun they had with xW and OM during the beachside resort and waterpark adventure - I was ready to be happy they had enjoyed themselves, but it never came off. Instead it was all "hi" and "bye". It rials me that I know xW is keeping them distracted when I call -- she does this too often now, not just tonight. She refuses to turn the TV off or to pause it. And she tells them to curtail the call when I try to engage my S's about their day.
This is against the rules. It's also against our consent order. But I no longer have any hope she can be held accountable, to anything. Meanwhile I feel my R with my S's is being undermined, weakened, overshadowed, on every front.
---
I had a good conversation with my bible study group last night. I spoke to two other men in particular, and appreciated hearing more of their own personal testimonies. I've come to understand that as bad as my sitch seems to be getting at times, it can always be far worse.
Hey nc... Im glad you guys had such a great time camping!! My boys would love to do something like that!
Of course there will always be worse stitches then ours out there, but they are still ours to bare. I do wonder why some people just have an easier time of it, and who exactly deserves to be dragged through the mud.
Ugg... its just depressing all the way around. Im having one of those days so don't mind me.
You think it would have been enough for her to destroy the family that she has to play games with her own children and there father's relationship.
Im sorry, but she CAN'T be thinking of them...
Treasure those times with the boys as I know you will. She will be judged one day, what comes around goes around.. and its SO true.
Blessings my friend
T
Thanks and (((HUGS))), Irish.
I know I need to stay focused on the positives. I need to also ignore xW attempts to poison my PMA. Her job is easy -- doing evil is always the easier path than taking the high road. I just have to work all the more harder.
But I am so tired and weary. Three years of constant, unrelenting h*ll from someone I had placed all of my faith in trust in for so long has just worn me down. (You folks don't hear but maybe 2/3 of it, at most.) If it weren't for my correcting my priorities and placing my faith where it properly belongs, in the Lord, I'd have been lost, totally.
---
I just got a request for a conference with S5's pre-K teachers. They're wanting to hold an urgent meeting concerning S5's behaviors in the last few weeks. They're inviting some specialist from Project Enlightenment to sit in on the meeting. This tells me this matter is a bit more serious than a friendly parent-teacher temperature-taking meeting. I have received notes from the teachers during my weeks that specified some behavior issues with S5. Lack of cooperation. Argumentativeness. Disagreements with peers. I have noted that it has occurred twice during my weeks of custody precisely on the days right after xW keeps S5 over during S9's cub scout night.
S5 has also had some speech issues that everyone has been glossing over, especially xW. I've tried to be accommodating and easy-going on this concern, but it has really started to bother me as he has progressed through preschool (still, I have said nothing of my concerns to either of my S's.) His pronunciation of words and sounds is often unclear -- and it has gotten so bad that even I can barely understand him at times. (Oddly, S9 tries to interpret for S5 during these times.) I wonder if this might be the reason why Project Enlightenment will be attending the parent-teacher conference. If so, I hope we can finally get to the bottom of S5's odd speech patterns and set up a course for remedying that. Maybe his mother will listen to someone besides me about this.
Speech has been an issue with both my both especially S4. He didn't say mama until he was 2 1/2.
This is something not to take lightly. Any speech issue spills over to late development of English Language skills. I only know this because this is what happend to S7 and he HAD speech. S4 is still struggling some, but I have decided not to start him in K until fall of 2011. He is a November baby and it just makes sense. I did it with S7 too and im thankful I did.
Now for your wife to ignore or gloss over this is total irresponsible thinking. I cannot stress how important handling this now is. This again shows you what kind of person she really is.
I hope that the Teachers enlighten her, I would like to be a fly on the wall in that meeting.
Good luck and let me know how you make out!
Oh, and its totally normal for the older sibling to interpret what the other is trying to say... its happend to us all along.
Thanks for the encouragement, Irish.
I find it hard to believe myself that xW has glossed over S5's persistent pronunciation issues -- historically, she's been hyper-anal and over-reactive about such things. For her to ignore this is uncharacteristic of her, at least as I've known her.
Then again she's become so utterly alien to me now. In the past I would have given her the benefit of a doubt and trusted she knew better and was on top of things. But now I question everything that has to do with her. Everything.
<journaling>
Well, it's done.
I picked up S9 from xMIL's this evening for cub scouts. xW was there, in the background. Once we were out S9 spilled the beans: xW and OM got married on Saturday down in Myrtle Beach.
It explains a lot.
On the way to the den meeting I asked S9 a couple of questions, to get a few details. Who was there (few family). Was it a church wedding (no). That sort of stuff, then I dropped it and said no more.
S9 asked something a few minutes later about that day. I asked him how he felt about it. He said he wasn't sure, then asked me in turn. I tried to smile bravely and shrugged my shoulders. I then said his mother getting M'ed to OM was utterly meaningless. She has embraced D as her life's solution to problems, and thus M has no real, honest meaning to her. She had said as much herself, not in so many words, but that was her meaning. So by the same token I don't see where all the fuss is. I then told S9 that he will need to make up his own mind about these things.
I changed the subject to the topic of tonight's den meetings (a community service project to build bat houses to help control insect populations). And so I thought we had put these conversations behind us for now.
After the den meeting, S9 and I again talked. We had a good and busy meeting so I was able to forget all about this weekend's farcical events. But S9 mentioned that OM was now staying at xW's apartment. I told S9 that agan, their M was none of my concern, for the prime reason that they were two people who held no value in M in the first place, at least not beyond a thinly applied social and financial veneer.
I once again changed the topic to something else, I told S9 that he needed to get a good night's rest tonight, as he and his class are taking the ITBS exams tomorrow. That seemed to throw him off the trail, and I was able to deliver S9 back to his mother's doorstep without further word on this disturbing subject matter.
But then S5 ran to the door to give me a hug (in his pajamas) and the first words out of his mouth were that OM was staying there with his mommy. Sheesh! LOL.
xW is such a coward. She wouldn't look me in the eye. So typical. And so pathetically funny.
Driving home I am thinking, well, the other shoe has finally dropped. And I have already written her off as the lost cause she is. I will say nothing at all to her about this. Why should I? Like I said before, her getting M'ed, given all the insane things she's said to me these last three years about how she views M in general and our M in particular, is absolutely meaningless. I cannot acknowledge or respect their union because of who they are and what they have done. I will not do so. After all, neither of them had even so much as an ounce of respect for my M to my (then) W, so why on earth should I observe their M? It is only a matter of time -- and the clock is now ticking -- before either or both of them cheat on the other and again make an absolute mockery of the one institution of Man created by God himself.
I do hurt still. Somewhat. I admit that it does still sting, and I will no doubt ponder the road ahead and the insanity of all this senseless foolishness we do to ourselves. But then part of me feels that rush of freedom it also offers. I can finally mourn the loss of who she had been or only perhaps had been (for who really knows for certain if she had ever been real or not), and then move forward.
I just wish for my kids sake they never had to see any of this. It's just so unfair to them.
So sorry to hear, NC. That must be so painful. ((((((NC)))))))
I don't know what to say. I don't believe their M will last; I know they often don't. I think at some point, your X will let some of her anger go and look in the mirror.
You were already planning on going nc, and I think you should def. do that. I'm going to bed now & I'll pray for you and your boys also. Things will work out!!!
WOW!! That was the last thing I thought I was going to read... so soon anyways... what a hypocrite she is.
I know that has got to be hard for your to hear (((((hugs)))), but let me tell you, you made out on the deal. She is really a screwed up person, and not someone who deserves your loyalty and goodness. He deserves her.
Im sure the boys are confused, how could they not be. This wasn't your doing it was hers.
I will pray for you and the boys, you are better off without her.. and like Karen said, I doubt it will last.
take care.
T
(((((NC)))))
I am so sorry to hear your news. I dread October when I figure they will get married. Not my issue. Yes sad for the kids and hard to see the person you married be so lost. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
kat
God, that's just awful.
I've been trying to think how my dad felt. By the time the D was final, my mom was living with a guy. That one didn't last. She ended up getting married twice and having another long-time live in boyfriend before she died 12 years ago. So that was at least four serious relationships in about about a 16-year stretch.
I never considered any one of them my dad. There was only one. Boy it had to hurt him though. My mom ruined his relationship with my sister and that kind of drove him off the deep end. He started drinking heavily, got some DUIs and had to move away.
I love my mom but she was really out to get my dad after the D.
Don't let her win. Stay the course. In the end, your sons will realize the truth.
Well, I've been sitting on my hands all evening, but I have to interrupt the self righteous pity party for just a moment. I wouldn't do it, but for the kids.
First, if you stay on the path you are on, I could see you losing custody completely. The sad part is that I'm not convinced that would be a bad thing, at least for a time. I really think you need to get some good help with the issues you have. Your anger, your extremely passive aggressive behavior, and who knows what else. And losing custody might be the motivation you need to actually look at yourself.
Second, when you are talking with your kids, remember that you are the adult. There is no reason that you should have been asking your son questions about the wedding. The only reason to ask if it was a church wedding was so that you could judge your XW, and make sure you son knew it. Totally passive aggressive. And telling him that HIS MOTHER's wedding meant nothing was completely wrong. You are all upset because you believe she said she would never get married? There's no way you could have really believed that, it's the kind of thing almost all of us might (and probably have) said at some point during in a divorce. But here's something I bet you didn't think of. You just showed your son how you treat people who do things that you don't agree with. And guess what, at some point, he is going to do something that he knows you won't approve of, and now he is a lot more likely to do it behind your back.
In the parenting class that I had to take as part of getting divorced, I learned (actually, I think I already knew it, but I was reminded) that young kids know that they are a part of both of their parents. So that any time you attack the other parent, to the child you are also attacking the child, in their mind. Their identities are hugely intertwined with their parents.
This woman that you hate so much (and I don't see much way around that) is the mother of your children. You are divorced, you don't have any right to control her any longer, not that you ever did. The only real expectation you can have when she has the kids is that they are safe. Other than that, what they do when they are with her really isn't anything you need to be worried about, and the same goes for her.
I'm sure, based on your previous posts, that you will take this as not supporting you. But sometimes support has to come in the form of telling someone things they don't want to hear. I do support you, but even more I support you kids. Please, take a good look in the mirror, for them.
vh,
Despite what you may think about me, I can appreciate much of what you have just said here. I have been for some time staring in the mirror and am not entirely happy with what I see. Yes, there is anger, but not hatred. I am working on it, struggling with it. That's why I am here and one reason why I talk with my friends in our bible study support group.
What I am surprised by however is your vehemence in raking me over the coals. When I don't recall your offering any input to me before this. And up to a point your statement seems measured and reasonable, but then it goes way beyond.
Why would you even consider me possibly losing my children to be better for them? Why would you entertain that as a welcome outcome? What would motivate such an extreme impulse to suddenly post something so bombastic like that to me in this thread? Why so little tact?
I'm sorry, but I now have to question your motivations. Which is unfortunate because it colors whatever point you're trying to make.
Perhaps you can elaborate on where you are coming from in this? Are you the child of D? Did one of your parents bear resentment towards the other? Or are you the parent in your own situation to which you are projecting?
In any event, I thank you for your opinion.
NoCode, I am a child of divorce. In a very unusual situation at the time, my Dad got full custody. I don't know my biological mother, have never met her to my knowledge and don't have a whole lot of interest going there.
I probably don't know the whole story and maybe someday I will meet her, but from the letters she has sent on random occasions, I can't expect the truth. I feel deep down that I turned out a better person for being with my Dad. He was strict and over protective. I don't remember him ever talking about her either good or bad. Most of what I know of her came from my Dad's Mom.
My point is that you need to somehow make peace with your situation. It is not your place to condemn these people, GOD can handle that on his own if he sees fit. You don't have to love her, like him but you do love your boys and if you want to make a positive impact on their lives from here on out, you need to let all that cr@p go.
After they have been with her, just ask if they had fun and tell them that you are glad to have them this week, evening or whatever time you are looking at. Then be their Dad. Do all the things you love to do together. Show them what the high road is.
Hugs, kat
Mr. Blues,
Well, I got your attention, so that's something. I have posted before, but that's not really important now.
I don't want to see you lose your kids. But I could sure see it happening. I would much rather see you change your way of doing things now. Coming here is good, talking to the men in your Bible study is good, but I do think you should seriously consider doing more. From here (and all I can go by is what you've written), it seems that both you and your XW are so intent on stabbing at each other that you have forgotten that every time you do it you are putting the kids in the middle. She's not here, so you get to hear me jump on my soapbox a bit.
No, nothing like this has ever happened to me. But I read it and I hurt for the kids, and that's why I posted. The way you live now is the example you are setting for your boys. I am pretty sure you can do a lot better.
I probably won't post to you again. I really don't get a kick out of telling people things they don't want to hear. But as a father of four boys myself, well, someone needed to speak up for the kids. Please try to take them out of the middle of your war with their mom. I know that she uses them as well, probably even more than you do. But you can only control what you do. And it just might be that if you change she will change. Which is one of the stories of DB, after all.
Most of all, good luck to you, and I mean that sincerely.
I have to chime in a little here too. My kids are older than yours and are for the most part aware of what is/was going on. One thing I have heard from them, individually and on different occasions, is that their dad (and his new wife) bad-mouth and belittle me, and that really bothers them. I have tried to stay away from saying things about him or his new wife. If asked I have answered their questions factually and tried not to include opinion or judgment. A direct effect of that is that my kids have been able to draw their own conclusions on what has happened and I believe they respect me more for having taken the high road. when you belittle their mom, you are in their eyes belittling them as well, because they are a part of her as well as a part of you. They can love her without loving you less, and they will love her as their mom even if they grow to disagree with her choices and actions.
Be the person that you want them to grow to be; strong, caring, non-judgmental.
Okay, point taken.
But let me give you (those of you wielding the 2x4's) a counterpoint. I sense some of you are not interested in considering the actual circumstances and will assume the worst in my actions in motives. That's your prerogative. But I am still going to offer this anyway, as what can happen if we take your prescription too far.
My brother is right now, this very moment, taking the absolute non-confrontational path that you propose. He is constantly singing the praises of his STBXW and doing everything humanly possible to not rock the boat. He strongly believes, as many of you obviously do, that keeping the peace "for the sake of the kids" is paramount. He feels his kids will be best able to survive their D if he uses the utmost in diplomacy and makes every effort to be supportive and friendly with their mother.
Do you know what the result of this has been? Has it brought peace and comfort to his three kids lives? Sadly, No. Not at all.
My STBXSIL has taken full advantage of this so-called accord between them to have open R's with other men -- they're still M'ed, mind you. She has taken to maligning my brother to everyone they know, much as my xW had done (is doing), although not to their kids, thankfully (at least not yet.) My brother refuses to call her on this and even asks us to not discuss it, again, "for the sake of the kids."
And do my nieces and nephew feel safe and secure and have full confidence in their parents. Outwardly, yes, maybe. Inwardly, no.
Furthermore, my eldest niece, the teenager, now sides with her mother. This is a bright lovely girl with a great head on her shoulders who has historically adored her father, my brother. But now she holds contempt for him -- for not standing up for the M. She still loves her father, but because he is taking the very road you profess, especially in light of her mother doing things that are obviously wrong to anyone with eyes, she has lost all respect for him.
But despite the fact she disproves of her mother's new lifestyle, she loves them both dearly, but she no longer feels as secure with her father -- he has abdicated his authority and his moral standing. My heart pains for her -- her parents have checked out of their responsibilities to their kids -- and they were such good parents before this.
So, I suggest you truly consider these (admitted) extremes before condemning my actions, especially as limited a snapshot as I can possibly give you here. The fact is I have to steer a safe course between these two extremes -- between the outright belligerence of my xW and the peace-at-any-cost foolishness of my brother.
I can't say I have been all that successful in charting a course between Scylla and Charybdis. It is not an easy thing to do. But there has to be a balance, and I am not hearing of much balance right now from you 2x4 wielders.
Believe me, I have considered much of what you have said. All of you, from both sides. I duly warn you that I am not swayed so easily by those from either camp who claim to "represent the interests of the children", much less my children. You'll both have to do a lot better than that.
If you want to engage me, you'd better bring more that your own feelings and anecdotal evidence. I am struggling with my own emotions through all of this, of which I am direly aware. And harsh, emotional diatribes are not going to help me contain myself any easier, even if you truly believe what you are saying, much less show me a better course. I welcome your intellectually honest, reasoned discourse, but my patience is wearing thin for simple platitudes that come from pop-culture media and books. I've read those books and they are sorely lacking.
I want my sons to grow up to be better than either of their parents. I want them to grow up to be strong, caring, non-judgmental -- but also discerning, wise and moral.
Hon, we aren't talking about your brother we are talking about you. Your situation, your kids. You ARE divorced. You are putting those wonderful boys in the middle, they are almost afraid to say what happens at each house as it will hurt or spark anger in the other parent.
Teaching your kids morals is great but no where are we told to use the other parent as the sinner as an example. Your ex is a troubled soul. Realize that and do all you can to teach your kids the right way. Harboring all this anger and pain is no way to do it. You are destroying yourself in the process.
kat
NCB, I definitely do not advocate praising your X or being friendly to keep the peace. I am not friends with my X or his new wife. I speak to him as little as possible, and I do not acknowledge her existence for the most part. All I am saying is that saying things like her marriage means nothing because she does not value marriage makes you look petty, and that may stick in their minds. I will never abdicate my authority, but I also know that my authority does not extend into their home. As long as I know that my children are not in physical danger, it is not my place to say what can be done or said in their home, just as it is not his place to say what can be done on my home. I do not ask what they do or say in their home. My X has been married to her for two years and I have no idea where they got married or if the kids were even present. It's not my business. I know that he has said $h!t about me to my kids, but I have never said a word to him about it, because it would be pointless and would probably actually make him angry at the kids for telling me. There have been times when the kids say things that make me want to point out how much of an a$$ their father can be, but I bite my tongue. They have talked to me about problem with im and I just say I am sorry that they are dealing with that, etc... They will have to work out their relationship with their father on their terms, it is not for me to dictate. The things you dislike that your wife does with the kids are not any better when done for your purposes.
I'd like to think that there was a middle ground between Mike Tyson and Ghandi. But if I have to err, I'll go with Ghandi.
I will be the first to admit that I am not Ghandi. I stand up for myself when warranted.....although I will say, after standing up for myself numerous times in areas where he used to steamroll me, it has become much less necessary. He is finally getting it that he can't bully me like he used to, so he doesn't try.
But despite the fact she disproves of her mother's new lifestyle, she loves them both dearly, but she no longer feels as secure with her father -- he has abdicated his authority and his moral standing.
How do you know that?
they are almost afraid to say what happens at each house as it will hurt or spark anger in the other parent.
Kat, I'm not sure where you're inferring this from. I'd have to say if anything, so far, my two have done nothing but bubble over effervescently about the goings on at xW's house, even when I kindly ask them to not do so. If anything there is too much candor about the other household -- TMI.
The things you dislike that your wife does with the kids are not any better when done for your purposes.
I think you lost me here. Are you talking about alienation against the other parent? Or something else?
I'd like to think that there was a middle ground between Mike Tyson and Ghandi. But if I have to err, I'll go with Ghandi.
Depends on the arena, now doesn't it?
My niece still confides in her other uncle, my youngest brother.
To all:Again, I hear what all of you are saying. And I do take much of it under advisement.
I was just saying in the past you have mentioned that they don't want to say what they are doing while with their Mom. Sorry If I misunderstood. I just want you to feel better again.
Please throw the darn rope away. You don't need or want it in your life anymore.
kat
Kat, I dropped the darn rope only to have xW whip me with it!
I wish I wasn't just half-joking.
Actually, Kat, what I've said about my S's is that they have only lately taken to be selectively discreet, but most of the time they spill their guts to me when I'd rather they contain their loquacity.
I have just found it odd which particular articles of information they found it important to clam up over. Like, for example, the fact xW and OM were getting M'ed this past weekend -- to my mind it was like, so? They had already said it would be in March. So it was no big deal that required them to be secretive about. Thus it didn't make sense -- but they're kids, so what can one expect.
Then once the day is past -- boom! Spill their guts, they did.
It's hard to tell my two that I'm really not interested in such details without it sounding like I'm blowing them off, which I'm not. I understand and sympathize with them that they have a difficult time compartmentalizing their lives, especially S9. But for my own peace of mind and theirs, I want to minimize her constant attempts to overshadow their time with me.
Perhaps they can tell that everything your ex, their mom, does bothers you and they feel like they are getting caught in the middle.
Just a thought. I'm not in your sitch. I'm not sure what my stbx is doing in her free time. For the most part, she hasn't thrown any of it in my girls' faces. There are a couple of times she's ditched them at MIL's so she could go partying, but nothing to the point it's worth complaining about.
Originally Posted By: bright_new_day
The things you dislike that your wife does with the kids are not any better when done for your purposes.
I think you lost me here. Are you talking about alienation against the other parent? Or something else?
I am talking about the negative comments about the other parent. They are hurtful to the kids, whichever side they come from. Saying that your X's new marriage is pointless because she does not value marriage is just hard for them to hear, and serves no purpose.
Saying that your X's new marriage is pointless because she does not value marriage is just hard for them to hear, and serves no purpose.
So I should allow the counter argument to go unchallenged? I should allow xW, OM, xMIL, et al., make their statements that this M is valid and respectable, when they have all denigrated the M and the family they conspired to destroy? Simply because that was
then and this is
now? Should one's loyalties be so transient? To deny one and uphold the other?
Believe me, I understand the objective to be the best interests of my S's, but I fail to understand where this loyalty to M, to it's sacredness, has any relevance now that the proverbial horse is out of the barn. It's too late to worry about the chickens in the hen house when the foxes are lying around fat and sated. The point of teaching my children civility and the respect for M and family has been made mute by the destruction of the family we once shared together, by xW's relentless drive to tear us all apart.
Let me tell you, in case you haven't heard, what happens to the ex-husbands that go along quietly with the waywards in xW's family. I know/knew three of them personally, xMIL's former husbands. They become
black-listed. Persona non grata. Nameless ones. Their WAW's demand that these LBS' be totally shunned and forgotten. Even their own children are coerced into shunning these former family members. Some struggle to maintain ties with the family members, but in the end they give up, totally demoralized.
I still remember how creeped-out I felt when everyone turned their back on xMIL's husband #2, a nice guy abandoned for the one who would be H #3. And if anyone were to defy the blacklist, they too would find themselves ostracized. I was so ashamed but xW begged us to go along. I know it sounds too monstrous to be true, but it is.
THAT is what I am facing. THAT is what I am fighting against.
Maybe I
am my own worst enemy. Perhaps my efforts harm the very cause for which I stand. But I will not go down without a fight. Unlike the others, I will not go down quietly.
But if I can reign in my anger and my fears perhaps I can manage to stand firm with a minimum of impact to my S's. I don't know. I must try my best.
But if I can reign in my anger and my fears perhaps I can manage to stand firm with a minimum of impact to my S's.
That's the thing, all we are reading is anger, lots and lots of anger. I hope you are saving it for the board and not for your sons. You don't want them growing up with the memories that dad was always sad/angry.
I remember early on in my sitch I took the girls to the movies. A cousin came along so D11 could watch a different movie than D7.
D11 told my cousin she felt bad because W was always happy and I was always sad.
I resolved right then that that isn't how my girls are going to remember me when they think about this. They are going to remember me as upbeat, strong and never tearing their mom down. Yes, I tell them this isn't my choice, but I don't tear her down -- or at least I've tried not to.
And I know your sitch is WAAAAAYYYYY worse than mine. I can't imagine the pain.
So I should allow the counter argument to go unchallenged? I should allow xW, OM, xMIL, et al., make their statements that this M is valid and respectable, when they have all denigrated the M and the family they conspired to destroy? Simply because that was then and this is now? Should one's loyalties be so transient? To deny one and uphold the other?
There is no argument or counter argument. They are married. They have entered into a legally binding contract. It is valid, even though the relationship began in a bed of lies. It is not a bigamous marriage, it is simply a marriage. Their marriage is their business, not yours. There is nothing you can say or do that will make it or break it, that is entirely up to them. I believe that putting them down and making disparaging remarks about their marriage will make you appear weaker, not stronger. But that is my opinion, for what it is worth. If your children talk to you about it you can make general comments, but to tear them down personally is probably not helpful. I hve had conversations with my kids (D12 in particular) where I have expressed to her my personal bneliefs. I have told ehr that I do not believe in divorce, unless it is a case of abuse, yet I am divorced. I have talked to her about the importance of working on relationships...all relationships. She knows my values and my morals. She sees her dad's morals and values, and she does not agree with them. But she still loves him as her father. Your kids are going to love their mother, they can do that without it causing damage to your relationships.
BND,
I will do whatever is necessary that is best for my S's. Let me state that unequivocally.
However, that is not going to stop me from questioning the rationality and the assumptions for every little detail behind any prescribed course to that end. Do you follow?
I am in a serious mode now, given the fracturing of my world, my family, to which I am compelled to question everything. I am not going to accept "conventional wisdom" at face value. That does not mean I won't accept any of it at all -- instead it means I will carefully weigh the entire body of thought that has supposedly gone into these accepted notions before I consign myself to adopting any of them. But the case has to be fully brought and delivered in its entirety first.
So, case in point: You state that their M is none of my business. That's a pretty blunt, unqualified statement. And given any other circumstance, I would immediately agree with you. However, can anyone give me a rational reason why I should respect their M when neither of them had the decency to respect mine?
Even were you to convince me that encouraging my S's to honor their mother's new union as in their best interests, there is still this utter hypocrisy about also totally disregarding the covenant I had had with their mother -- and thereby totally invalidating the family the four of us once shared.
xW is the one who left the family, who wanted out -- not I. This was all herdecision, so should she not be the one to make any concessions? And by the same token, why should her new M be given even a shred of credence when she breached the "legally binding contract" she had with me?
On another tact, if my calling into question the legitimacy of their M and their "family" would make me appear petty and weak, then I ask why should I have to? Why should I have to say anything (or feel that I have to)? Shouldn't it be obvious to everyone that can think beyond herd mentality that these two adulterers have forfeited any pretense to equal treatment? They broke the laws (in this state still at least), despite its lack of enforcement, and now they should be rewarded for it? And you want to further compound the injustice of this by granting them the same protections and recognition that were denied me and my family?
It's an insane, F'ed up world, I realize. But I am not obligated to be party to such batchitcraziness.
And it really saddens me that I would have to explain this to anyone here in the DB forums.
Still, having said the forgoing, for the sake of my sons I will do what is absolutely necessary for their well being. But I will weigh my own scales and make my own considerations as to how I see the best path (or lesser of evils.) And if that should require being just another lamb being led to slaughter, so be it, but I will not go blindly or without acknowledging the injustice of it all.
And it really saddens me that I would have to explain this to anyone here in the DB forums.
I read both DB and DR and must have missed the chapter that said it was best to stay stuck on the past, poison children's minds, hold grudges, be judgemental and be one angry a$$hole. Hmmm, I always thought Michele's underlying philosophy was brief solution oriented therapy so as to solve problems going forward without digging up a painful past.
that is not going to stop me from questioning the rationality and the assumptions for every little detail behind any prescribed course to that end.
As bad as your sitch is, the reads as someone who is obsessed with their ex.
Perhaps.
But after today, I'm thinking the obsession is with protecting what's left of my family.
I had a meeting with S5's preschool teachers. He has been experiencing some problems of late, which I have mentioned his teachers wanting to discuss. He is expressing some emotional problems and some frustration with his speech. The bottom-line is that we're going to have S5 screened for Asperger's, just to make sure that's not it. He now tends to emulate some of the behaviors of his older brother (who does have AS).
The meeting ended on a hopeful note, with a plan of action. The goal is to make sure S5 is ready for kindergarten in the Fall. He's certainly bright and intelligent enough.
I am thinking that his turn in behavior is most likely temporary, and that S5 will again readjust.
I am also thinking that his two parents have been F'ing his life up lately.
xW was there at the meeting. She was her typical, post-bomb self. The only difference of note was that she did not, as she had many times before, taken the opportunity to proclaim to the teachers that I am totally to blame for our child's failings. The fact she contained herself to that degree was a welcome relief, and a breath of fresh air actually.
Perhaps having M'ed her affair partner, or just getting that goal behind her, she will start to lighten up. We shall see. I won't hold my breath, but we shall see.
As for myself, I could look at xW, sitting there across the table, and safely say there is now nothing there. She is just not the same person that I had married. At all. She is just an empty shell. It's sad, maybe, but also a bit of a relief to again recognize that I am free from this strange person.
As such, I came to the conclusion that the anger I feel is for the loss to myself and my family, my S's. It has been a disappointment that this stranger (xW) who took my spouse away would further injure me by removing me from my S's, if I let her.
So I looked at her and felt practically nothing -- I realized that my foremost concern was not for her, but for my S's, with S5 in this particular case. Whatever he needs to help him succeed was the chief order of business -- and I determined that if xW was also sincere enough to put S5 and S9 first, then I would be content to keep peace.
I read both DB and DR and must have missed the chapter that said it was best to stay stuck on the past, poison children's minds, hold grudges, be judgemental and be one angry a$$hole. Hmmm, I always thought Michele's underlying philosophy was brief solution oriented therapy so as to solve problems going forward without digging up a painful past.
I am sorry you feel that way, Kerry.
You state that their M is none of my business. That's a pretty blunt, unqualified statement. And given any other circumstance, I would immediately agree with you. However, can anyone give me a rational reason why I should respect their M when neither of them had the decency to respect mine?
I never said you should respect it, I simply said it is not your business and there is nothing you can do about it. It is a legal marriage. The law allows divorce and remarriage. You cannot change that.
Even were you to convince me that encouraging my S's to honor their mother's new union as in their best interests, there is still this utter hypocrisy about also totally disregarding the covenant I had had with their mother -- and thereby totally invalidating the family the four of us once shared.
I would never tell you to encourage your sons to honor their mother's new marriage. All I have said is that it is not in your best interests to make derogatory remarks. It will not raise you in your sons esteem. Why does it have to be an extreme, honor/degrade...why not indiferrence? I know where you are coming from, my X left for OW and married her
14 days after our divorce was final. We had 4 kids together and were married for 21 years. I have never said anything positive to my children about their marriage, nor have I said anything negative. And now my daughter who is 12 has figured it all out on her own.
They broke the laws (in this state still at least), despite its lack of enforcement, and now they should be rewarded for it? And you want to further compound the injustice of this by granting them the same protections and recognition that were denied me and my family?
You don't have the power to grant or take away anything from them. Their marriage exists within the law, yes the same laws they broke to get to that point. Why do you have to comment at all.
All I am saying is that making your sons feel bad about their mother is not going to make them feel better about you. Why waste the time that you have with them being negative? Focus on them and the positives that you have together!
I think you don't have to worry about your kids getting the wrong ideas about marriage and fidelity from your X. They will learn from you. Not by what you say, but what you do.
My kids are just a couple years ahead in maturity than yours, and they really do realize that. I was talking to D10 last night. I think she is realizing what her dad is like. I'll post more of that on my thread, so I don't hijack yours. But I find myself kind of defending him, which I kind of don't want to do. I don't think I should defend my X anymore than you should say anything about your X whether negative or positive. It's easier said than done though!!!!
Last week D11 was sad about what's going on. I forget all that was said, but at one point I told her I still believe I'm W's one true love.
She asked me "why is mom being so dumb then."
I told D11 W isn't dumb. She's unhappy and she keeps searching for that magic thing to make her happy.
So D11 says "she should look at the glass as half full instead of half empty."
Priceless.
You keep bringing up these other families where the nice guys are systematically destroyed. Have faith in your kids. Don't start a tug of war.
I think the trick is when we realize and present to our children the fact that human beings are just that, human beings. They get confused, they make mistakes and they sometimes hurt each other. The things our spouses may have done to us were not right but usually they've been dealing with their own pain longer than we ever realized. When we thought we were living the good life they were living something they experienced as entirely different. Whose fault is that? Probably both parties to some degree. Certainly, we can yell "but I didn't cheat" and there is some validity to that but when people hurt they do some terrible things. I remember my Pastor saying to me "the one thing I've learned in this job is that good people in difficult situations can do some really bad things" We don't need to present our spouses as evil nor do we need to defend them, we just have to present them as they are...as human beings.
Why do you have to comment at all.
Because, to be able to sell her new M to my S's, xW has had to malign and distort the history of our M and our family life, to freakish proportions. She has been trying to convince our S's that the reason we were split apart was solely because of me, that I was an unloving workaholic who was too stingy with sharing my time with them, a poor, absent father who never really loved his children and treated them all like "possessions". And that she was nothing but the innocent loving victim who has now suddenly found "love" with OM. She's reverted back to her old saw that we never
really loved each other and thus I basically forced her to commit adultery.
Two wrongs don't make a right, I know. My own commentary might very well have been unwise, but failing to defend the truth of what really was and took place, against such outright lies and fabrications, seems equally foolhardy.
I will
try to contain my words from now on, not say anything, but I don't think there's any way to minimize the impact here -- either I fall on my sword as xW expects me to, or I at the very least stand as silent testament that their mother is a pathological liar. No matter what, nobody will be fully satisfied by whichever path I take.
Update.
I guess the detente was too good to be true. Meager as it was.
I got an email from xW this evening concerning the meeting with S5's teachers. She launched into the most insane, hate-filled diatribe I have seen from her in a long time. Even for her it went beyond the pale. She blames me for S5's emotional issues, that because I "keep him from his mother" during my week of custody S5 is now acting out and having emotional incidents at preschool. She accused me of hating my children and wishing to punish them for participating in her wedding. And then she went off on some wild tangent trying to rewrite the order of events about when the children knew about her plans to marry, thoroughly contradicting herself several times over. It was the biggest confused jumble of insane spewing nonsense.
I now look back and realize this email from her represents the actual thought processes going through her warped mind this afternoon during the meeting -- all the while I
thought we were both focused on the teachers and child counselors trying to discuss and find solutions for S5. Not so.
<Sigh> I am doubly convinced now that my ex is
hopeless -- a sick, twisted person, and it is stuff like this that has been stressing me out for over three years now. No wonder my kids are having such reactions.
Uuuuugh! Classic mistake: Arguing with an insane person has made
me insane.
I need NC. I need NC. I need NC.
Keep the email in a folder. Forward it to your attorney and ask him what your options are. Don't engage in a war of words. Let her words drag her down.
NC~
There is no butts about it she is insane and you can rationalize with a insane person. Clingingtohope has got it right, you need to keep this email in a file, and document every case/issue that comes up with her. Fill your attorney in with the details...
It seems that all she wants to do is stir it up... this is not about her anymore, this is about the boys, and she seems to think causing more drama is going to make things better.. or is she waiting for you to give up? I wonder....
(((((hugs))))
NCB, I was thinking about your stituation. I know that you said in the past when it is your time with the kdis she likes to show up to disrupt things. If I remember correctly you e-mailed her asking her not to be there. As crazy as she is, you asking her not to come probably makes her more determined to come. My X seemed to LOVE to show up to the kids activities with the new wife, and always made sure to sit where i could see them. I never acknowledged their presence, it was irrelevant. Them being there did nothing to diminish my wanting to be there for my kids. And seeing them there together made me realize that they were perfect for each other, two seriously flawed people who had to destroy others to get what they wanted, because they were the center of the universe.
CTH, thanks, that's just what I will do.
((((Irish)))), thank you for your words of support. I really appreciate you. Yes, my ex is both evil and insane. There's no other way to describe her.
BND, I believe you may be right. xW does seem to thrive on the drama.
...
I had an awful day today. I will elaborate on this in the morning, but right now I am just too tired and need to go to bed. I will say it was one of the most demoralizing things to me in this whole three-year-long ordeal.
Hey, NC. Hope you're doing ok today. It's beautiful weather here today; hopefully where you are too...I do think your X is a button-pusher for sure!!! (((((NC)))))
Karen said it well, your X is a button pusher.....time to hide your buttons!
(((nc))) I hope your ok.. im worried about you... Post when you can.
T
Thanks, everyone,
I already had a rough day at work yesterday. An 11th hour "crisis" I was forced to handle, but it required me to ask the xMIL to drop S9 off at a birthday party for his best friend because I was going to be later than I had planned. Let me say I hate owing xMIL any sort of favor.
I finally got off work and managed to pick S9 up and the party, where he had been having a great time. Then together we went to xW's to pick up S5 -- this was to begin the start of my week of custody with both of my S's.
When I got there, however, S5 was having an absolute conniption fit over the fact I was there. He began screaming that he did not want to go with "Daddy" and wanted to stay with his mother. He bawled loudly and refused to leave, twice he ran away from me and away from my car. He had an absolute meltdown exclaiming he doesn't want "Daddy" but he wants"OM" instead.
For my part I tried not to show any signs of emotion, one way or the other. I wanted to present a calm exterior to my S, neither angry, upset or too far to the opposite, as a too happy demeanor would be risky in itself, and might come off as too glib or trite -- he's not stupid. And I refused to be the one to drag S5 to my car; I let xW be the one to do so, as I would rather her be seen as the confrontational one in this case. I also spoke in calm, gentling tones, with love and a desire to understand my S, but still firm and resolved.
Internally, my heart was shattering. I felt so dejected. xW took her dear sweet time in coaxing S5 to go to my car, spending an excruciatingly long time cuddling with S5 and reassuring him -- she was in no real hurry. I got the impression she was stalling in hopes I might give up. I can say I was so distraught inside at S5's wails that I nearly did give up, at a couple of points. But I realized that that would be wrong. It would be cowardly for me not to stand my ground, no matter how this was killing me. I tried to keep in mind that I have to hold the line for my S's sake, or else all would be lost.
OM was there, skulking in the shadows beyond the view of the threshold. He opened his mouth a couple of times to say something to S5. That just started another round of angry protests from S5.
I managed to get S5 out to my car and into the back seat. But as I was trying to get his older brother in after him, S5 slipped out the other door and ran back crying towards his mother's apartment.
I have never, ever seen S5 act this way, around anyone. And certainly he has never had this reaction to me before. I have had a very loving relationship with S5, and with his brother. This was a change in demeanor as I've never seen in him, not to this degree, and not focused so strongly against me.
Finally I got S5 in his seat and his belt buckled and then made sure S9 was also secure. As I got myself into my car I took another glance at xW's face and saw how she was staring at S5. I read in her expression this odd mixture of self-satisfaction and
She noticed my staring at her, raised her eyebrows and said, "What?!?"
At that, I paused from getting in the car, closed the door, and briefly dropped my outward calm, saying to her, "You know what!"
I then got into the car, and she was trying to reply that she had nothing to do with this scene. She exclaimed that this is all my fault, that S5 can sense my "anger" and that is why he does not want to go with me. She said that he is 5 years old and needs his mother, but I am taking him away from her.
She said this within S5's earshot and that nearly made my anger errupt out of control. But I ignored her after that point and refocused on both of my S's, and getting the H out of there.
Driving home I felt the aftershock of all this stress and wanted to cry, but I held the tears in check. I could feel the strain on my heart. Instead I tried to engage S5 and his brother. And while it took a while to get S5 to calm down, I eventually got him to tell me where he wanted to eat -- I bought him his favorite food and took him home.
We spent the evening having a good time playing together, and S5 seemed finally to be content. S9 had no problem at all with being with me. He actually seemed to welcome it.
Obviously, S5 is having a lot more going on inside of him than he has let on in my presence before now. But nothing could have prepared me for the shocking degree to which he was showing such angry rejection of me, his father. Likewise there is nothing in the way we related to each other in the past that would warrant such an extreme display.
I am convinced that xW is poisoning my S's against me. Despite her constant claims she tries to foster the relationship our S's have with me, I know she does not. And now I am convinced she has been actively brain-washing them, and turning any slight difference to her advantage. I know how xW thinks, especially now, and while I would have hoped she was beyond such tactics, I am afraid that here too is an area I have placed in her too much trust.
After the boys were off to bed. I did talk in separate calls to my mother and to my youngest brother. They tried to cheer me up and assured me that I needed to stand strong in the face of this disheartening turn of events. They worry for my morale now, and told me to be strong for S9 and S5. They each concluded that xW has shown her true colors in these last three years, especially now, and my S's need me now more than ever.
My brother went further and suggests, much as some of you have, that it may come a point where I will need to fight for full custody of my S's if I have any hope that they will have normal, well-adjusted lives. I really do not want to take my S's away from their mother, no more than I want her to take them away from me. My S's do love her, and they need a mother as well as their father.
Likewise, I worry that my attempts to hold on to them might not cause them more harm than not to -- but then I realize that that is precisely the conclusion that xW wants me to decide, and the very reason she acts without constraint.
Today, we are having a lazy day, taking it easy. No long hike as I had originally planned. We are all calm and relatively happy. I am not looking forward to what more antics might be in store for me when xW gets a hold of my S's again.
I am praying to God I can weather this storm, as it was as bad as anything I have ever dealt with. I think it may very well have been, in many ways, even worse than the bomb itself.
NCB,
That (What) incident has happened to me several times in the past. It's always hurt. I usually get angry, which I know is not good. I'm sorry for all the hurt that goes on these boards. Damn, it just doesn't make sense.
poet
NCB...{{{{hugs}}}} I know that must be so very difficult, but you did a good job handling it. I am sure your X does want you to give up, so hold tight. Make your interactions with your boys as psoitive as possible. Have your kids had any counseling? It may become necessary for them, especially the youngest who is obviously struggling. Getting a professional involved may be the best thing. They may be able to see what your X is doing and help stop it....or worst case scenario, be a witness if you end up back in court.
I think divorce is hard on kids. Your X isn't helping matters. You need to let go of your anger, too. I know how tough it is to do that with a toxic ex, but you can pray and be strong and do that I have faith in you.
I think if that happens again; you should remind your son that it's your time to be with him. My kids are very concerned (most kids I think) with being fair and stress that it would be unfair if one parent monopolized the time of the other parent. I would grab him if I needed to and carry him out of there (he's 5 not 15), and not let your X dawdle around hoping you'll change your mind. I'm sure it's tough for your S5 to be in that position; maybe like feeling like tug of war or something and he's the rope.
I would try to talk to him about it also. Like today or tomorrow, not the actual day. Your X may be saying something or he might have just had a bad day. It would be good to find out what's going on and talk about it. I do think, even if your X did something horrible, don't discuss it with your S, but instead maybe start documenting for future discussion with an L.
NoCode-
Just remember that some kids just really dislike the moment of change. He might just as easily cry and say he wants to stay with you at the end of your weekend. It's a lot like kids who cry when dropped off at preschool - go back 20 minutes later, and they're happy as clams. Then they cry when you go to pick them up.
I'd try NOT to make any kind of deal at all about handoffs.
Ellie
Poet, thanks. And I agree that it makes no sense. Too many good people I see here in these forums and in other venues are put through H*ll for no good reason.
BND, thanks also. Neither of my S's have had counseling for their parents splitting up. S5's pre-K teachers and counselor asked us about that as well. About this time last year I tried to convince xW that we should get both S5 and S9 into some form of counseling, having lined up three references which I had checked out. But xW would not hear of it. She insisted that our S's would be just fine and that D was not going to have any impact on them unless I screwed them up. She obviously feels that she can directly control how our S's feel, even with something as fundamental as their family being severed.
I realized that getting my S's into counseling was going to be in vain if I could not gain xW's cooperation. It was apparent she would thwart any C sessions during her weeks of custody. I now wish I had overridden her.
Karen, I think as I have come to lose all hope that xW will reciprocate any good faith effort by me, I am learning to let go of my anger. I am certain she will continue to try to hurt me and infuriate me, but I am learning to not care anything about her or her actions, but to treat her as the instinct-driven, irrational and dangerous animal she has become, no different than an enraged water buffalo prone to charge. Given that, I can view her harms and her threats as no different than a force of nature. But it does sadden me still, to a degree, to realize that I am having to effectively dehumanize her in my mind to be able to cope with her heinous ways.
Hi, Ellie, my kids definitely do not like change, and they are hugely averse to transitions of any kind. S9, in particular, is acutely sensitive to having to change gears.
However as far as the weekly schedule -- one week with each parent, alternating -- it has been almost exactly two years now (with the separation itself having started almost a year before that). My S's should be fairly well acclimated to this regular "changing of the guards" by now, or so I would reason.
But if I could maintain my calm (at least outwardly) in the face of what transpired on Friday, then I think I can certainly avoid making any big deals out of handoffs going forward.
---
I had a fairly quiet weekend with my S's, despite the torrential start Friday evening. S5 seems to have calmed down considerably, but he is obviously feeling less secure in general. Several times over th course of the weekend he sought reassurances from me that I love him and care for him. Asking me to tickle him, or to sit on my lap to watch a show, or to crawl into my bed late at night. It worries me that something is affecting his sense of peace and security so, but I am at the same time relieved that he can still allow himself to seek comfort in me, his father.
I am trying to be as neutral in my own demeanor as possible, neither too "up" nor too "down", but always ready to show S5 and S9 that I love them despite whatever circumstance may arise. I am their father, not their playmate, though as a father I do and did get down and play with them and enjoyed myself with them and their company. They need a father, as all children do.
At times though, I thought later back upon it and wondered: was I actually now walking on eggshells this weekend, with my own children? Is that normal? Or is to be expected given the circumstances?
And then I wondered, how on earth could I have gotten into a situation where my family, or what remains of it, could be hanging so precariously? But like being on the edge of a cliff, I am telling myself to not look down, but to continue forward -- if I am lucky we will all get past this, I hope.
Set up the counseling now and do it during the weeks you have custody. She may not like it but I cannot imagine any judge saying that a child of divorce cannot go to counseling. I did it in the past year and wish I had done it sooner. I was also afraid of the backlash from my X. I finally decided it didn't matter and I didn't care what he thought, and I thought it would be good for the kids. Unfortunately we have been inconsistent bacause there is a lack of counselors who see children in my area, and it is sometimes hard for me to take time off during the day to take them. So we go when we can.
The first step is already under way, getting S5 screened for Asperger's Syndrome, per the Project Enlightenment counselor's recommendation. Whether positive of negative, this will be the lead in for full counseling -- I will make sure of that. If nothing else, I will impress upon the parenting coordinator that this needs to happen, for both of my S's.
NC, you did extraordinarily, admirably well under hellish conditions.
At times though, I thought later back upon it and wondered: was I actually now walking on eggshells this weekend, with my own children? Is that normal? Or is to be expected given the circumstances?
No, it's not "normal" but no part of this sitch -or your lives- is "normal." And, yes, I'd expect it and I'd react the same way, too during a weekend that started off like that. Find a good family counselor and go with them, all three of you. I did with my two sons right after (sigh) my
first divorce and it did us all a lot of good.
And, yes, you
will all get through this.
Prayers and dad-to-dad admiration from one of your lurkers.
Thanks, Gardener. I do appreciate your words of support. I am grateful to have the wise counsel and support of so many good folk here in the DB forums, such as yourself.
On the other hand, in humility, I don't let myself entirely off the hook with regards to S5's issues. In the past, even when I have held my tongue, I am certain my true feelings about xW's actions do come out, try as I might to suppress them. As a result I have failed to keep my injuries hidden, not entirely, and thus my S's know of the pain I feel from their mother. And that is not something commendable on my part, by any measure.
But I really believe I am now starting to turn the corner on that, learning to put that behind me. I pray that I am, at least.
I will, as you suggest, follow back up on the family therapist groups that I had researched and contacted lat year. (Our parenting coordinator is himself a family psychiatrist, incidentally. But because I have determined that he lacks any conscionable moral convictions, I cannot really employ his particular help. At this point, I'm not sure he has a value system that would allow him to truly understand the implications.)
On another front, the S has hit the fan with respect to my brothers. One of my brothers, K, the middle son, is married but going through a S and D. I have related here in my threads the odd similarities in circumstances and contrasted the stark difference in reactions to our respective predicaments.
This past weekend, my youngest brother, B (unmarried), opened a can of verbal Whoop-arse on our mutual sister-in-law, K's wife. B called her out on her treachery and lies to our family, including her reconciled R and alliance with my own xW, while leading K along to think she was working in everyone's interests before her own, when it has always been the opposite. My STBXSIL was once pretty palsy with my youngest brother, her younger brother-in-law, since they are closer to the same age themselves, but now that's over and done with.
I spoke to my brother, and what set him off (this has been building for some time) was that he learned that our SIL had via FB sent her love and glad tidings to my xW upon hearing she had become engaged to remarry -- even knowing full well this was xW's affair partner.
I haven't spoken to K about this yet, but I understand he's pretty upset with B for stirring up trouble with his WAW. I need to talk to K, but I am betting he just wants to sweep any conflict under the carpet.
(((NC))) Hope your doing ok...
thanks for the support!
Hey, NC. Glad to hear that your younger brother is calling your SIL out like that; he sounds like a good brother! NC, I don't know about you, but I was much like your brother K the first year or so of the separation; thinking if I was a certain way maybe everything would get worked out. I know in retrospect, I did a lot of wussy things I shouldn't have, but I was motivated by love and fear for my family. I think if the D proceeds, in a year or so, K will prob. have more of a mind-set like I do today and you as well.
And good about the counseling. My kids had it last year also, and I think it was a good thing. BTW, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing for our kids to see our pain over the D, is it? I mean I think our WAS go overboard trying to be cheery and acting like D is painless, so maybe it's a good thing they see some of our emotions.... a tiny bit of them anyway.
((((Irish))))((((Karen))))
I am around, occasionally lurking.
At our mother's request I tried to talk to my brother K Friday night. We had a falling out. He pressed me on where I now stand with respect to his STBXW and I while I tried to be diplomatic, I was candid with him. I told K that his STBX has by her various actions taken sides against me and our family, in favor of my ex and her new H. Given that, there is no other conclusion I can draw but that my STBXSIL has turned her back on me, my brother B, our mother and our side of the family.
My brother continues to irrationally support and defend his STBX. I can only partially understand his stance. It has crossed my mind he might be trying to DB her (although I doubt he knows of that approach) -- if so, I can say it is simply not working, not in his case.
So my brother got extremely angry with me. He tried to pass off my assessment as being tainted by my anger, that it is bitterness that causes me to react so. He further defended his STBX for "wishing happiness" upon my ex and that I just need to let my anger and animosity go.
What K said about my own anger and bitterness is indeed a great detraction from my position -- I understand that and am keeping that very much in mind. But what he is refusing to see is that my reaction to this one precipitating action by his STBX, giving her blessings to xW, is born not of what is done to me, but what this portends to my bother, K. My STBXSIL giving aid and comfort to my ex is a very crystal clear indication that she is now revealed to be sympathetic to someone who would destroy her H and rip their family apart -- and that was something that his W had expressed extreme shock, dismay and disgust not too long ago, to my very face. It reflects a duplicity that I find a great danger to my brother, as he is foolishly accepting her word at face value and assuming that his good will to his WAW will be reciprocated, quite the contrary. K's WAW is showing where she really stands and he is refusing to see it.
Or rather, he can see it, but he refuses to acknowledge it, for fear of rocking the boat.
So my brother blew up at me and threw his phone down -- and walked away in irrational anger. At that point I decided it was pointless to say anything more to my brother, as he was going to defend what he knew deep down was undefendable. And he was getting angry at me for forcing the issue out in the open when he'd rather pretend his WAW was going to honor her assurances to him and that she would be fair and cooperative with him for the sake of their kids. His WAW has gone back on too many of her words already -- K knows this but he doesn't want to face it.
So in his eyes he has to make me out to be the one who is just too hung up on my ex's remarriage, and for that my words should be given no weight. He doesn't want to see that while I am indeed angry and upset, it derives from a whole other set of reasons.
I am leaving K alone now, for a while. He sent me an email the next evening saying he apologized for getting so angry, and that he'd talked to his STBX -- she was not going to speak anymore with my ex.
I sent him a reply restating my position, that I am still concerned for him and his own welfare, that I don't like seeing him willingly falling on his sword for someone who has now proven to me she would never, ever do the same for him. I still love my STBXSIL, but I can no longer trust her, especially where K i concerned. I also told K that I had decided I was going to leave him alone and let him work this out on his own -- I am always concerned for him, but I won't lend him my counsel unless he wants it; until then he knows where he can find me.
What's the pity is that xW swore to me that she would never come between me and my family and friends. And yet she has done that very thing.
I am sorry that things didn't go as smoothly as you hoped. Your brother is supporting his wife and taking her side as most married couples do. He hasn't separated himself from her. I would suggest giving support and maybe not going deeper just yet.
He hasn't given up on his marriage. Maybe you should give him DB or DR and let him read it. After all he knows his marriage and his wife and may be able to see things you guys don't.
Hang in there NC. I am hoping the best for you and your brother.
kat
Thanks, Kat.
I had a reply lined up earlier today but the gremlins must have struck my PC before I could hit submit -- lost the long post.
Anyways, I just had said that I am indeed giving my brother his space. He already knows I am here for him if he needs anything.
I also mentioned that despite the argument with my brother, I still had a very good weekend, including some GAL time with my friends. I even got to spend a little time with my S's on Saturday because S5 had his first soccer practice that afternoon (I had enrolled him in a local 5U program.) S9 and I sat on the sidelines encouraging S5. (And I gave no care to xW and her OM/H skulking nearby, in the bleachers.)
I am looking forward to nice weather this weekend. Saturday, April 3rd, is the first anniversary of the big D, and I am going to treat it as a day for celebration -- without mentioning that's the cause for my merriment, of course (not to my S's anyway. They'll just think it's all part of the Easter weekend.)
I made sure I was out with a friend that night. I wasn't nearly as upset or emotional as I thought I might be. Keep yourself busy. I did the same on our first un-anniversary. Hopefully it will become just another day with a passing thought of fondness and then I can let it go.
A year reminder of the actually D, no fon memories of that day.
kat
While I am saddened by my D -- it is a sort of death -- I can now reflect and think that I staying M'ed to a person like xW, as she is now, would have lead to an early grave for me anyway. So I'm looking on it as my release from bondage. Bad for her, good for me.
In other news, I have made arrangements to move to a new apartment complex, to be within the district of S9's school (it will be S5's school this Fall.) Otherwise , neither of them would be eligible. S9 likes the school and his circle of friends there. Plus it's a top-rated school.
The new apartment, although roughly the same size, and with the same amenities will be about $300 cheaper -- that's going to be a significant boon to my finances.
The only rub is that this is the same apartment complex that xW lives in right now. Unfortunately, this is the only set of apartments within the school's district.
I haven't said anything to xW yet. I don't plan to either. For one thing, she'll eventually learn the news through our S's anyway. For another, she had suggested it herself last year, and probably expects it already. I had merely resisted the idea, for obvious reasons, trying to search out other accommodations in the area, such as a house for rent. As it turns out, however, this was the only game in town, so to speak.
Besides, she plans to move out herself in August. It won't be too long that we have to endure the thought of being in such proximity of each other. If she were staying put I would never relocate there. No way.
I am sort of getting charged up now because this has been a goal of mine, to move to a cheaper place, and as such marks a milestone in my move forward again. This plus a few other occurrences happening at the same time give me more encouragement. Things are looking up.
Just an update. Something to post, to log for posterity. And for anyone who is still interested in knowing.
I am swamped with work and very busy with preparations for the apartment move. I've got nearly all the logistical stuff worked out, but the packing is still a mountain of work left to do. I have never cared for moving.
It took almost no time for the ex to find out about my move. Neither she or her mother have let out even one peep that they are aware. But Jabba the Hut (OM) tried to ask me about it last Monday (and he practically never says anything to me, so it was doubly odd to me.) Whatever. I had predicted it would leak out to them eventually, but not quite do fast. Only S5 had had any sort of contact with any of them, earlier that morning.
This corroborates my belief that xW and xMIL grill S5 and S9 for information the minute they see them. Or else they have trained these two small boys to sing like canaries at the drop of a hat. I'm thinking he latter, since I've seen how they interact. The minute they see their mother they tend to go into immediate confessional mode.
Enough speculation, even if they are well-educated deductions.
I think I may have another fight brewing on my hands. S9 is now talking again about tree houses. That's the catch phrase that his mother had been using to bribe him into accepting her fantasy. The fantasy she launched three or more years ago, unbeknownst to me at the time, to replace me with OM and a home out in the sticks, with a tree house for my S's. So they're replaying that old song again, renewing the coercion and bribery of these children.
I guess I've been a bit too confident that she would have a hard time selling the PC and a judge on her plans to move my children so far away from their father, to a school system that is a definite step backwards in quality from where they are now. Where S9's IEP is currently secured, and his counselor, and his excellent teachers.
But then xW never lets logic, rational thought or morality thwart her self-interests for very long.
S9 mentioned that his mother and OM had driven he and his little brother out by the school way out there in nowhere's land. Apparently xW is trying to convince S9 that he might be happier out there, at least some day, by the time he gets to middle school or high school -- if not sooner. She has evidently launched a campaign to bribe my S's and to convince them they should choose a lesser school system.
xW is so evil. So selfish. So sick.
Ten years ago we moved to this community specifically because of how highly rated the schools are. This was the best place, in both our estimations, hers foremost, for raising our kids. And when we had at one point thought we'd like to homeschool our children, we found so many excellent resources also right here in this community already.
Now she doesn't give a d*mn. Oh, she'll make excuses that she supposedly has our S's best interests at heart. But she continues to prove over and over again she's just full of BS.
I guess I am now going to have to once again notify the PC and let him know that her games are still afoot. He had expressed his hope that she would not be trying to continue to take such actions clearly not in the boys' best interests, such as bribing them and trying to move them to this lesser school system, but she is not complying.
Is this all I can do? To have to continually report these recurring infractions and underhanded scheming to the PC? I am starting to think there's very little that will be done about it even so. It's like trying to get the UN to do it's stated job in a war zone, it seems so fruitless.
Nevertheless I am sticking to my guns and making sure my S's have everything they need right here. The whole purpose of my moving is to secure their enrollment in this current school, and I will not let xW screw that up for them.
hey NC, i'm sorry you can't catch a break with psycho ex, hope there is something you can do about her moving them, I pray for wisdom to deal with this mess, take care friend.
Hey, NC. Sorry to hear you are going through the wringer still. I'm sorry I've been so busy lately (and I was sick this past week with a cold to check on you). Will email you when I get a chance.
NC, I'm ba-ack! Where are you and how's it going???
Hi, Karen, all,
I'm ba-a-ack too!
I've been overwhelmed with moving this past week, and with other matters. Still a lot more to go, but I am popping in to check in on everyone.
Several annoyances and jibes from exW since I last posted. I'm trying to let them roll off my back like so much water. It's easy when I'm so utterly busy.
I was off on vacation last week -- packing and moving is not my idea of R & R. I'm tired and sore and still trying to get my ducks in a row. A few adjustments to work through in the new living space, for example. My S's were off for much of the time. They had the "pleasure" of watching Daddy pack and move and sweat. But I made it up to them on Friday -- we spent the day at a local fun park with go-carts, miniature golf and other games. We had a great time. (And I needed the break in the moving ordeal to catch my breath.)
S9 is to be awarded tonight with his badge for earning the Bear rank. I'm very proud of him (trying to not remember the constant prodding of him to stay on task for earning all the achievements necessary for this badge.) He deserves it for his hard work.
On the other hand I am concerned for S9's level of maturity. I have seen signs in him that perhaps he's lagging a bit too far behind in the maturity category to be a continuing success as a scout. At times it worries me. He's not keeping up with his peers. I know it is mostly due to his AS -- and that is to be expected. But in any case, this might prove to be a handicap, one severe enough that he might not be able to proceed in the BSA.
I will continue to monitor his situation.
On another note, My brother's D became final a week ago Friday. He (K) has not talked to me about it at all. If it weren't for FB, I wouldn't have known. Our poor mom didn't have a clue until yesterday. My youngest brother (B) knew -- having talked to K. Other than B, K hasn't been communicating with his family for at least a couple of weeks now. Word has it he's already started seeing other women.
That hasn't stopped K from pawning the kids off on our mother -- and without letting her know first! He's planning a trip to New Orleans to be with friends at the Jazz Fest, and leaving the kids with our mom. Hadn't told her his plans yet -- left that for B to tell her.
Sad to say, K appears to be reverting back to his former, pre-marital state: Self-centered, me-generational, devoted to "friends" and self-gratification more than family. Juvenile. Devolving as it were.
I love my brother, and I am sorry for him (and his children) -- one day this will catch up to him. It always does.
NC, one of my friends just told me his divorce was final that day--and then introduced me to his girlfriend!!!
I can't believe that about the BS. You know, my D10 did GS last year (couldn't this year, but plan to again next year when I can get flextime). I think GS is very AS-friendly, at least our troop. The other girls do help out D10 sometimes; she is a little bit-emotionally and developmentally delayed, just a bit. They just take a little more repetition sometimes. Have you talked to the Scout Leader or whoever's in charge about your concerns?
It sounds as if he is looking for a band aid. Some way to make himself feel better. Don't judge him too harshly, he is in a lot of pain and just has a different way of showing it.
kat
Don't worry, Karen. The BSA is not in any way commenting upon or recommending that S9 not participate. It is just that I am at every meeting and am thus constantly observing S9 and his behaviors and interactions with his fellows -- and I have been growing increasingly concerned that my S has not been exhibiting the growth in character that a scout needs to develop. Just tonight, for example, he got so fixated on the fact many of his peers have been sporting these fad items called "Silly Bandz" -- so much so that he couldn't focus on the real deal, the ceremony to receive his Bear badge. He threw a tantrum that was beneath even a Tiger scout (first graders, the lowest rank), which took me a while to reel him back in. If this were an isolated incident, then I wouldn't worry, but this is getting to be a regular occurrence.
Believe me, I put S9 in the scouts because I believe they help build character, and S9 has benefitted tremendously from it. But I get the sense that S9 is starting to plateau, so to speak, and is no longer growing -- certainly not like his den mates have.
But like I said, I will continue to monitor S9 and try to evauluate in the coming months whether he can succeed or not -- especially without impeding the other scouts.
Hi, Kat,
It sounds as if he is looking for a band aid.
I assume you mean my brother. In that case, yes, you're probably right. I do pity him, as he is most obviously intent on repeating all his mistakes from his past. Just another unfortunate statistic in the pandemic called MLC.
Hey NCB
Hey, my boys are about to get their Bear badges too -
I was a den leader for 2 years; the Scouts are VERY accepting, remember, as long as you "do your best". Without really any visiblity into your situation, I'd encourage to keep on with the scouting. My $.02.
Thanks, Geronimo,
I became an Assistant Den Leader this year to further my participation with S9 (and eventually S5) in Scouting. This maturity issue with S9 is an extension of his handicap, having Asperger's Syndrome (AS). All sources tell me that S9 will be at least two years behind his same-aged peers in emotional development -- and as he gets older that's becoming more and more significant. I need to be prepared for the distinct possibility that, much as I and S9 need for him to gain as much from scouting as possible, he might impede the progress of his fellows -- in which case I might then need to pull us out for the sake of everyone else. I really, really hope and pray that it doesn't ever come to that.
NC~ Sorry about all that has gone on with exw. She is evil... Not thinking about her sons and what would benefit them first. We actually were thinking about purchasing a new home, but decided against it unless we found one in the same school district, because of S7 issues with reading We didn't want to dissrupt all the good that they have been doing for him.
Some things are just not that important.
Your ex is completely messed up. This is not the tale of a devoted mother...
Scouts is such a great thing for them, I am looking into getting S7 involved. I would just watch him for now, Im sure they would help out in anway they could.
your a wonderful father NC don't ever forget that.
(((hugs)))
All sources tell me that S9 will be at least two years behind his same-aged peers in emotional development -- and as he gets older that's becoming more and more significant.
I agree with that. Both mine are about 2 years delayed I would guesstimate. But they also seem to have periods where they really seem delayed, but then have rapid growth in learning, less even development than other kids I think. Not fair to compare them to other same-age kids.
I need to be prepared for the distinct possibility that, much as I and S9 need for him to gain as much from scouting as possible, he might impede the progress of his fellows -- in which case I might then need to pull us out for the sake of everyone else. I really, really hope and pray that it doesn't ever come to that.
You see that as he might impede the progress of the other boys; I think he probably may help the other boys' progress. Many of the other GS with my dd help her, and you know they say the best way to learn something is to teach others (which they wind up doing sometimes). And the lessons the other kids learn I think is invaluable; patience, tolerance, and lots of positives. I believe D10 adds to everyone's experiences when she participates and when she can't so many of the other kids always ask why she can't and where she is and really seem to miss her. I'm sure your son is like that too.
Hi, all, and thanks. Just wanted to provide an update.
Just finished what I am thinking has been one of the busiest weeks in my life: juggling work, several deadlines for projects, a move into a new residence, cleaning and prep of the old location prior to turning that over, a parent-teacher meeting for S9, an AS screening and educational eval for S5, cub scout activities including the Bear award ceremony, a 7:45 AM soccer game (
) on Saturday, and lots and lots of unpacking. This all in addition to all the many other day-to-day stuff.
I am tired, needless to say.
S5 was cleared during his screening. He appears to have no learning disabilities, is extremely bright and imaginative, and shows to have now indication of Asperger's Syndrome. His behavioral issues are most likely emotional. The counselors figure that S5 has been acting both internally and externally to a couple of likely issues.
First, they noted that S5 has had to put up with quite a large degree of changes in his life in the last year. His parents' D, his mother openly dating another person and then eventually M'ing him, the changes in households, etc.
Second, they have taken what I and S5's mother had said about his older brother, S9, and recognize that S5 is behaving very much in accordance with being the neuro-typical sibling of an AS child. S9 is very controlling (wonder where he gets that from?), domineering and is always attempting to set the "agenda" for how his poor little brother plays and behaves. S5 loves his brother but he suffers a great deal of frustration at S9's seeming callous treatment of his rights and individuality. S9 has a difficult time understanding that S5 is his own person.
I can greatly identify with S5 in how it feels to not be shown respect for being a separate, thinking person, to have one's thoughts, goals and aspirations constantly trampled or commandeered.
There is no real malice in S9 -- it's just his AS. S9 is just naturally oblivious to the degree he affects his little brother's struggle to be his self.
This has led to S5 venting himself in the classroom. He has become emotional, crying when he thinks he isn't getting what he wants or sometimes going off to a corner to sulk. And sometimes S5 blows up and acts out by doing something harmful, such as using a marker on furniture.
As time passes, I hope things will settle down as far as all the constant change S5 (and all of us) have had to put up with (xW has more in store however, I am certain.) I am hoping that with some additional counseling we can train S5 to better able to cope with the stress from his older brother. And we can train S9 to respect his younger brother.
One aside: I inwardly laughed when the counselors told us that exW and I were "obviously" doing so very well by cooperating together for our S's sakes. If they only knew how little that really was or how much effort even that little really took!
xW is still being her typical self. More of her shenanigans. For example, last evening, during her pre-bedtime nightly call to our S's, she again had S9 ask me a question. Aside from the fact she should never put our kids in the middle of communications between us, she took this time and method to relay to me about kindergarten orientation she had signed up for S5 the next day (today). Then she asked if I was going to go as well, because she had "just happened" to have the particular morning off already.
11th hour. Again. Uuuugh.
I had to tell her no. I needed much more lead time than the day before -- I would have needed to have cleared it with work first. She knows this already.
So after all the effort I took this past week, busy as I was already, to remind her well in advance of the appointments we had for S5 and for S9, including repeating the reminders the day before each as well as at the start of the week, she neglected to include me in one for this week. Nice.
Regarding S9's parent-teacher conference, his mother sent I and the teacher a message that morning (last Tuesday) that she would not be able to make it. It was fine by me, as it turned out. In fact, I rather enjoyed being able to talk directly with S9's teacher for a change, without exW always trying to demonstrate her "superior understanding" of S9's activities and needs. And the fact that S9's teacher just glowed about his progress over this year was a major boost to my week. S9 has shown tremendous growth in his academics, including his writing -- and Writing has been a serious bug-a-boo for S9. Despite a love of reading and literature, and a fine command of verbal language, S9 has always expressed a great aversion to the mechanics of Writing -- it's again due to his AS and the difficulty he tends to have with fine-motor skills. As such, historically, S9's writing has been very rudimentary and far, far below his reading comprehension. We're talking barely first grade level here.
Well, the teacher shared with me S9's sudden recent growth in his ability to use more fleshed-out sentence structures, along with the proper use of adverbs and adjectives. It was almost poetic! And I noted that he had shown in the examples she presented a minimum of verbs of the form of Be (is, was, are, etc.) -- that is, "lazy" and weak forms of exposition.
I reported all this back to exW in an email. She never acknowledged it to
me. But she did mention it to S5's screening counselor later in the week on Friday. (Typical.)
I am proud of S9 and very pleased with his teacher. She has managed to get so much out of him that his previous teachers had struggled with. That, I know, takes
tons of patience. And she makes it look so easy too.
We just need to work on S9's behavioral issues -- if we can lick those he will have relatively no problems going forward.
The other ticking time bomb, one that is going to really cause a war, is that exW continues to talk to S9 about changing schools no later than when he enters middle school. To repeat what I have posted before, exW is apparently making plans to move our sons to a lesser school system closer to where OM's home is, more than an hour away. The schools there are barely of average rating -- when the schools they are in now are some of the best public schools in the entire state. Plus S9's IEP and all his friends are here, not there -- and S9 would no longer be eligible for UNC's TEEACH services (for Asperger's) since that would be in another county where they do not offer this service.
exW is again not talking with me about this, let alone seeking my clearance. She continues to think and act as if she alone makes all the decisions for our children. And she is further demonstrating that she only has concerns for her own interests, before those of our S's, yet she still wants to claim she is doing all this for them. B-S.
I continue to pray about this and other matters. I have been praying for close to three years now that exW would wake up and see what she is doing to our S's and their lives. I pray that she would finally recognize the destruction she has been causing, erasing all the hard-won advantages, resources and values we had garnered for our two children. I don't get it. I just don't understand her or how she can think and act in this way. She is so utterly different a person than she ever was before. Such foolishness.
Oh, well,
whatever. I am and will do whatever I am led to do and must do, regardless of where my kids' mother wants to be.
Happy to hear about your S9. Things will work out with that. Did I ever tell you there is an autistic guy working in my office doing the same job as me? He's super smart and doing well too.
Sorry to hear your X is considering moving an hour away and to lesser schools. It's obvious the reason for that isn't your boys. Have you confirmed that for sure? What does the parenting coordinator say about that? The lack of services doesn't make it sound in your boys' best interest.
NC, I used to pray every night for my X, now I just do it when I remember. Detaching feels good...
NC~
I truly hope that she doesn't move them away. I would fight her tooth and nail on that one. If you are happy with the school they are in, then why make a big change like that. The boys have already had to endure SO much why do this to them, she utterly
Pi@@es me off!!
Something has happend to society and the way parents bring up their kids. I see it so much everyday, and with my own sister. Her daughter was sick last week, 103 fever... but she still felt the need to "go out" and leave her home, now mind you she was home with her father, but as a mother, how could she just up and leave her?? My sister is ALWAYS out and about, and its so self centered it makes me crazy. Yes I am from the old school I guess you would say, and no there is nothing wrong with going out without your kids, but not when they are that sick!!
Why do people have children just to leave them with someone else?
She does it frequently and leaves them with my mother, who then enables her.
Anyways, ,my point is, your ex is not thinking of the boys at all,and I can't imagine the fustration you have. I think even in my case its easier for me because I am the mother, but unfortunately a lot of fathers get the shaft, and probably most of them fighting for their kids would be better off with them and not the mother.
My h loves the boys, but has no patience for them. And raising kids is ALL about patience. I'm probably the other end of the extreme, and way TOO patient.
nc, hang in there, Im praying that she will see the light on this one, or at least the PC can put a stop to it.
Keep in touch.
((((hugs)))
T
Hi, Irish, and thanks. I do plan to talk to the PC soon about all of this. I also have to talk to the PC about S5 too, about a referral for emotional counseling for S5 -- as a follow up to his Asperger's screening (AS was ruled out.)
I also know that I need to get the child support payments I make to ex recalculated, based on her new marital status and her current income (she makes at least as much as I do now.) Ex continues to fail to provide the documentation about her income to either of our L's. I still continue to fork out a lot of money to her each month when I know she is not really in need of much of it. Aside from the CS/income redistribution, I still provide a lot of the boys' needs, at least as much as she does, if not more.
Today is Mother's Day. It's a bittersweet date for me now. While I still have my own mother alive and well (unlike other folks) and was able to send her flowers and phone calls, this day now has a sad feeling for me all the same. It was on Mother's Day three years ago that I last had sex. With now ex-W. A month before the bomb.
That was a very strange day for me as well. It should have clued me in. That day itself was the first time in two months we had "ML". She wouldn't let me near her for all that time following her surgery (that prior February) -- as she made so many excuses. Then she went on to blame me entirely for why we hadn't had sex, said it was my own "choice". And I blindly accepted her story, blamed myself.
I had really hoped her allowing us to ML that day was to be the turning point to us getting back on track, to fully restoring our R with each other. But in subsequent days and weeks she shut me down entirely. I became depressed and confused. Lost. I didn't know what to do -- I thought it was all due to me, and I hadn't a clue how to fix things.
I was an utterly ignorant fool.
Since then I have often reflected on that period of time. I now realize that Mother's Day 2007 was her parting shot at me. It was her way of giving me the final kiss-off, before she undertook a PA with OM in full force. I think she had already begun the PA before that, but by May 13th she was fully committed to ending our M. I never dreamed...
So Thursday, May 13, will mark 3 years since I began this involuntary celibacy. I know others have been enduring this much longer than I have, but I'm not sure if that makes me feel any better. At the same time, remaining celibate is the better course for me, at least for now -- and I'd rather be free of the painful consequences for a while longer. xW burned me very severely -- I'm not yet ready to risk that kind of pain again.
I will be someday. Hopefully soon. I do not expect to live a "monastic" life indefinitely.
(((nc))) Find comfort in knowing that it was her choice for your Marriage to come to its demise, not yours.
You did everything in your power to try and rebuild it. I know how hard you tried for you and the boys, but she was lost, and frankly too selfish to care.
You weren't a fool nc, you loved her and wanted your marriage to stay together, she is the fool.
What she did and how she did it, is so terrible. She munipulates and decieves~ not only did she do it to you, but her own children, that is unforgiveable.
You are a stand up man, with covictions and morals. Anyone woman would be lucky to have you in their life, as a friend, or otherwise.. I know I am.
You will find someone, I promise.
T
Thanks, Irish. I appreciate your kind words.
Guess I'm over-thinking things again. Need to let it go. Too many reminders for me in the May-June-July time-frame -- I get the rapid-fire sequence of Mother's Day/"Celibacy Day", First Date Anniversary, Bomb-Day/Father's Day and then the Wedding Anniversary. I need to find some new calendar event that's overpoweringly positive, to counteract this string of negative milestones.
I'll figure it out eventually. Thanks for bearing with me.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could just wrap the gloomy days in a ball and be over with it...just one day of the year? I know I am one to talk today...I think the weather is playing a huge part.
I am actually thinking of having an un-anniversary party in a few weeks. Just happens to coincide with the relasease of "Sex and the City".
kat
I've cycled through everything once now so I'm hoping this year won't be as emotional. Of course, I don't have a D date yet. That'll be another date to "celebrate" I guess.
Next year would be our 15th anniversary and we'd talked once about going to Vegas again. We went on our 10th.
Hey, maybe I take them to Vegas. It's warm enough to swim and they have enough kid stuff for a couple of days. And if I really, really, really have to gamble I can sneak out after midnight and play cards for a couple of hours.
That would replace the first Vegas trip.
I just looked at the calendar. The anniversary is on a Wednesday, which is usually my night with the girls anyway even if we don't go somewhere. There's lots of options.
Kat, the un-anniversary party is a good idea. I read a book that suggested some kind of "end of marriage ceremony." Something like taking all of the old photos and putting it in a box and burying it or burning it.
My kids used to ask why I kept the pictures of their Dad (with them) in our box of photos. Well, he is their Dad still. About a year ago I was looking for S17's Scocial security card so he could get his job. I came across a bunch of photos when the boys were little. I cried for 45 minutes. I went through them this past winter looking for some specific pictures and didn't shed a tear.
I just try to keep busy on these now "un-days". The next one is next Tuesday...his birthday but also S14's graduation. Going to the graduation and then back to work. Problem solved!
I guess we all have to figure out our own ways to deal with these emotion packed days. A party always sounds good to me.
kat
I know what you guys mean, July is really difficult for me.. its when everything got really bad.... A party is good, but It would be better if all my friends from DB could show up!
You know what's weird?
When I come across family photos, I don't even recognize the former spouse. I think, who is he?
Strange, huh?
Pictures.
During packing for the move, I went through a lot of old pictures. So in that process, I have had a lot of time to reflect on the events they represent. And several points came to light and are still fresh on my mind.
I am still missing so many photos from our early M, when it was just me, her and my dog. I try not to concern myself with the fact that xW has retained all the photos of herself when we were still happily M'ed -- I can understand if she doesn't want me to have evidence of her and who she was from that period.
What I do miss are the pictures of my dog, Angus, from that time-frame. I have mentioned him before in my threads. Angus was our surrogate child for many years, and he was prevalent in LOTS of our pictures back then. I have pictures from before we got M'ed and after the separation, but barely any from during the M.
As for the couple of scant images of xW from that period that I do have, I look at these pics now and can only see a different person altogether. At most I see in these old photos the "good twin" -- who has since been erased and replaced by her "evil twin" of today, like in some cheesy sci-fi cliche. Or the changeling mythology.
But mostly it makes me think I am looking at someone who has died. I can't really seem to associate the past person with the current one anymore.
Maybe that is or is not a healthy way to learn to cope with a loss like that. I don't know.
I just want my pictures of my dog back.
Maybe in a couple months, a year or two, as time goes by, maybe she'll let you at least make copies of them, if not just have them?
I'm almost done reading a really good book, Custody Chaos, Personal Peace Sharing Custody with an Ex who drives you crazy by Jeffrey Wittman. It's the best I've read so far about parenting with an ex like ours. It seems very in line with DB philosophies.
I do think they've become different people. But all the more reason to move forward and live a better, healthier life. I think it's probably easier without a WAS...
Thanks for the book suggestion, Karen. I picked up some books I previously had on reserve at the library, and while I was there tried to look up the Wittman book. I couldn't find it, but I'll look elsewhere.
Divorce Poison by Dr. Richard Warshak is another pretty good book on the subject (OT suggested that one to me.)
NCB,
As for the couple of scant images of xW from that period that I do have, I look at these pics now and can only see a different person altogether. At most I see in these old photos the "good twin" -- who has since been erased and replaced by her "evil twin" of today, like in some cheesy sci-fi cliche. Or the changeling mythology.
But mostly it makes me think I am looking at someone who has died. I can't really seem to associate the past person with the current one anymore.
Maybe that is or is not a healthy way to learn to cope with a loss like that. I don't know.
I just want my pictures of my dog back.
I can relate. As I posted before I had a one-night pity-party, looked at 17 years of photos, packed them, and put them with X's boxes with a note thanking her for taking them but, "keep them or toss them as you see fit. I don't want any."
Gardener,
I agree and see the point of your divesting yourself of photos of the ex. I have merely a handful of photos of the ex -- ones that slipped through her blockade somehow. Those I have sealed up in a box of other items of the past and put away in storage. My instinct is to jettison them with the sad memories they symbolize, but I have stayed my hand. The only reason to keep them is for my S's, as some day they might have want of them. One never knows.
But, as I said, there are some other photos, like those of my dog, that I'd also like to have -- preferably
without images of the ex in them too.
I have mentioned Angus often to my S's -- since he was the sire of Duncan, the dog they did grow up with -- and want to have something as a keepsake for this lineage of family pets, now gone. For me as much as for them.
But I'm not holding my breath about ex. Some day she might soften up, but that's certainly not an occurrence I can pin any hopes upon. Now that the move is over and the packing/unpacking about wrapped up, I can let the thought of these photos go and put it out of my mind. For now anyways.
Then again, were I to receive such photos now, I would be faced with culling the ones with xW out of them. I wouldn't take scissors to them (for my S's sakes), but I'd be tempted. More likely I would possibly attempt a little Photoshop magic on them.
I gave my D10 a picture of her dad and I on our wedding day; she enjoys it for some reason, and keeps it in her room. Doesn't bother me anymore when I see it sometimes. I have our wedding album and some other albums too. I do think the kids will want to have that someday.
How r u doing? Haven't heard from you in a while-had to dig you up way in the back here! Hope you're doing well.
I do think our X's will be the same ol, same ol, for at least a long while if not forever. The less I see of X, or deal with him, I do find the better and healthier for me. Hard to do sometimes though with kids; but still something to work on.
Hi, Karen,
I just caught up on your own thread. Sorry your ex insists on playing the arse.
I've had the boys this week. We had a great time camping last weekend with the cub scouts. S9 bridged over and is now a Webelo. Fall of 2011, S5 will be in First Grade and will join the Tiger Scouts. I'm looking forward to that.
S5 lost his first tooth today. We were at his soccer practice -- I thought he seemed more distracted than usual: Sure enough, at one point he waltzed over to the bench to hand me the tooth that finally came out (it had been becoming increasingly loose during the past couple of days.)
And S9 lost another tooth himself just this morning. The tooth fairy is being kept pretty darn busy -- two in one day.
xW is her usual asinine self. And the xMIL continues to be a real piece of work too. She got snippy with S9 over some paper he brought home from school, saying she didn't like what S9 and his friend had written to each other because it used the word "fart". She suddenly ripped and tore the paper up right in front of S9, greatly upsetting him. She shouldn't have done that, not in front of S9 -- and it was certainly unwise of her to have done it right in front of me. I said nothing, but I did not care for it at all.
xMIL later emailed me to apologize for reacting the way she did. I did not respond. While I am of a mind to let this matter drop, I'm now wondering what else goes on when I am not present.
xW continues to try to stop by my place in the mornings that I have custody of our S's, to give them hugs before going to work. It just seems so pathetic for her to insist on forcing herself into our kids time with me, like she cannot bear for more than a day or so for her influence to not be exerted upon them. She's become so darn anal and insecure.
But if/when she moves away in August, certainly she will have to cease these disruptive morning visits. So maybe we can tolerate it for a little while more.
xW continues to try to stop by my place in the mornings that I have custody of our S's, to give them hugs before going to work. It just seems so pathetic for her to insist on forcing herself into our kids time with me, like she cannot bear for more than a day or so for her influence to not be exerted upon them. She's become so darn anal and insecure.
I would put an end to this if you can. It is disruptive and interfering with your time/bond with the kids. I would simply tell her that she is no longer welcome in/around your home on these mornings. If she must see them she can do it at the school or something.
Good Morning NC~
I agree with BND, I don't find this necessary that she needs to do this, because frankly, did she do it when you lived at the other place? No, so I would politely tell her that it is your time with them and like BND, if she must see them she can at school.
Definately got some insecurity issues. Does the Xmil live with them? Just curious if not, she there an awful lot. That's odd.
Have you heard anymore about them moving and have you spoken to the advocate about it? I still can't see them approving that. The only defense I would see as if it were for work reasons, and then it would be have to be because they are forcing relocation.
Keep me posted! The camping sounded great, S7 wants to start cub scouts, I have to check into it, he is enjoying baseball right now!
I agree, BND, Irish. XW has no valid reason to impose on us as she does. She also tries to ask S9 each time whether they want her to stop by or not. Of course they (my S's) always say yes -- and if I were to countermand their agreement, then I would be seen as the bad guy. Grrrrrrrr. I can't win, ...not the way it stands.
I need to talk to the PC again. He's made himself so scarce, but I need to continue to catch him.
FYI, the hateful xMIL lives nearby xW, in this same apartment complex, no less. So you've got me, xW & OM and xMIL in three separate apartments, three separate buildings, but in the same complex. Almost seems like my worst nightmare -- only thing worse would be if we were under the same freaking' roof!
Thanks for checkin' in on me.
Maybe you should start showing up on her doorstep on the mornings she has the kids. How would she react? It may be worth it!!!
I was thinking that too!!! Perfect! I have the feeling she might have a little problem with that though!
Seriously, I think you should do it!
Well, Mondays at the very least are not going to work out for me "reciprocating" the morning visits. They spent last night over at OM's place an hour away -- hadn't shown up at her mother's place this AM before I had to leave for work.
It's all a bit too clear that xW has far too many resources and advantages against me in playing these games of hers. Right now I'm just out-gunned.
I think I'm going to need to keep pushing after the parenting coordinator as my prime recourse.
Side note: xW and OM just had to squeeze in some camping this weekend -- they couldn't bear to let me have a good experience with my S's without trying to one-up me again. They pushed it despite heavy thunderstorms and torrential rain, which had been predicted all week long. I didn't find out about it until I called Friday Night -- S9 told me where they were, and I thought to myself how idiotic it was for them to tempt fate like this.
Thankfully, the weather finally chased them out of there by Saturday evening.
I guess I shouldn't be so surprised that they would put themselves and my S's in harms way, even knowing all the severe flood and high wind alerts and warnings. But foolishly persisting until it was already breaking loose atop them was just... insane. Anyone in their right mind would have canceled the trip under such circumstances.
(I can only imagine what would happen were I to ever do anything so reckless with our S's lives.)
I stayed indoors myself. I tried to lay low and to get a few things done in the apartment, more unpacking and settling in.
NC~ It just shows how much poor judgement she has when it comes to the boys. Such little regard for her own children only to just like you said "one up" you, and for what??? what exactly is she gaining doing this crap.
Showing up on her doorstep wanting to see the boys i think is a fabulous idea... I bet she wouldn't like it. You definatley track that PC down, why is he making himself scarce. Isn't that his job?
Hope you had a good weekend and were able to enjoy yourself.
Take care and I hope you are going out doing things for yourself.
(((((hugs))))
Hi, Irish,
I managed to "catch" the boys Friday morning, having failed to do so the prior days their mother had them. Even so, it was when she was dropping them off at her mother's place, not at her own -- so xW could not really experience the full effect of being encroached upon.
I will try a little harder to catch them before she heads out each day -- which, I am gathering, is earlier and earlier every day.
xW sent me an email on Thursday, telling/warning me I had better make arrangements for daycare since she was going to split things up. I have mentioned before that xW (once again) wants to re-jigger the childcare provisions -- this time she wants to only cover her own expenses and leave me to cover my own weeks, beginning with July. This includes, by her plans, for me to begin to pay her mother directly for her so-called "childcare services". xW now suggests I contact my atty and work out a written modification to our agreement to make this happen.
Mind you, xW hasn't even given either of our L's and update to her increased salary situation since I first asked for this close to a year ago, so as to be able to recalculate the child support supplement I give her each month -- and yet now she wants me to incur the legal costs to making her life easier, as she perceives it?
No, xW is playing games again, and I am just not inclined to play along. I am indeed going to make my own daycare arrangements -- entirely -- and so I will begin phasing out her mother's service altogether once I figure out an alternative.
I did manage to track the PC down, if only briefly. It seems I am either getting his voicemail or catching him when he's tied up with another client. xW got him as well just the day before. It seems we're both following up on counseling for S5. xW got the PC to give us a referral back to a place I had lined up for S9 three years ago, but had let go. The reason the referred to place was dropped back then was because they admitted they could not really provide help for kids with Asperger's, which S9 needed. My own personal reason was that xW had "poisoned the well" there with the counselor by shedding her crocodile tears and blaming me for everything wrong in our M, our family and with our S.
So I am loathe to go back to that child counseling center.
In any event, I tried in the short time available to the PC to appraise him of the changes that had happened since we last spoke. The xW's wedding, my moving, S5's emotional issues (including the one incident of rejecting my custody exchange) and xW's efforts to campaign our S's on removing them to OM's place and changing schools.
The PC was most concerned over the school change actions. But he seemed more interested in playing wait-and-see, rather than taking initiative to thwart xW from continuing with her plans. I must assume he just doesn't want to believe that xW is capable of such duplicity.
It hurts me to think that he will give the benefit of a doubt to provable liar and cheat. But given everything that has been said before, I am finished with being surprised by that.
I have had a very good three day weekend with S9 and S5. We played and ran errands on Saturday and Sunday. We went to Church of course. Today we went to a local fun park and had a blast. Go-carts, laser-tag, etc. (I really like it when I can wear one or both of them out.)
And when we're home they keep gravitating back to playing Lego Batman on the Wii -- they don't ever seem to tire of it. But I did manage to get them to take breaks by watching the various Batman movies -- they've now seen all of them except The Dark Knight.
It was a pretty packed weekend, despite all of the video game time. Fun for all of us.
Hey No Code..
Playing your former wife's game of intruding on the morning routine only hurts you. It's a test of wills between the two of you that probably confuses the kids.. and might make you look a little like a stalker. If you truly want to see your children when she has them, why not just wait at where they're being dropped off? Or why do it at all?
And about the change in daycare expenses.. Instead why not ask for a modification in child support based on the change in salary for the former spouse? Your lawyer knows how things work and can best advise you. If she wants to formally change childcare expenses, it's her choice to go forward, not yours. And it can open a whole can of worms for her if she does. Especially if she's planning on moving.
Their mom continually interferes with your morning routine which is disruptive, invasive and disrespectful. It would wig me out, too. Since she knows your time schedule, suggest that saying goodbye to the kids in the morning at school works better for all. Then you can take them for breakfast, get donuts, go to the store for something then get them to school. Break her routine.
And you're in a tough position with the PC since most states feel it's better for children to be with their mother as long as she isn't a cracking smoking lesbian prostitute. Or at least that's the standard in Connecticut. Promptly enrolling your son in the child counseling center would be good, providing a safe established environment for him to feel safe, share developing a rapport with his counselor for this summer and the upcoming school year
Anyway.. these are imperfect suggestions and perceptions that may or may not benefit you. In the end it comes down to what works for you, your children. What's best for them. And if something makes you really mad, try and identify what it is that is causing that gut reaction. Reactions that are disproportionate to the event usually are triggers for something completely different.
Hope you have a wonderful day.
*hugs*
xW now suggests I contact my atty and work out a written modification to our agreement to make this happen.
Of course it is your responsibility to pay legal fees to modify the agreement so she gets more money.
Silly you for thinking otherwise! LOL
No, xW is playing games again, and I am just not inclined to play along. I am indeed going to make my own daycare arrangements -- entirely -- and so I will begin phasing out her mother's service altogether once I figure out an alternative.
Excellent idea. I am sure you can find daycare for the times you are responsible for the kids. And won't that burn xw and xmil'S hides.
Hi, Gyps,
Yes, I have to agree -- unless I truly feel the need to see my S's every morning they're with their mother, there's little cause for me to do so. My gut instincts tell me that it would be just returning tit-for-tat, fair or not. And you know what? I really do not feel so insecure that I feel the need to impose myself on them. It would be different if my S's were actually requesting my visit, but they're not -- and that actually gives me a level of comfort.
You see, the real problem with xW "dropping by" to visit our S's during my week has less to do with xW and her attempts to horn in on my parenting time, but what this might be doing to my S's. xW's core reason for doing this is her own deeply-ingrained insecurities. She has allowed her insecurities to lead her completely astray from the ideals she professes, so much so that the image she wants to portray as a goodly, upstanding person is a complete sham, a facade to hide the very insecurities and foibles that cause her to so stumble.
Furthermore, I am concerned with her efforts, conscious or not, to make our two S's just as insecure as she is. She may deny it publicly, but it is so painfully obvious that she wants both S9 and S5 to be so attached to her that the cannot function without her. She wants our S's to be so utterly needy of her that I will not be able to effectively parent them.
This in turn triggers my own degree of insecurity. I love both of my S's beyond measure. I want them to need their father as much as their mother. (Or that I do not want them to depend on their mother to the express exclusion of their father, I suppose.)
But I also love these children enough to recognize that undue dependence on either parent will ultimately harm them. As such I find myself genuinely disgusted with xW's fawning attempts to keep our S's tied to her apron strings. I do not want to make the same mistakes she is making.
And I can say that while I do truly miss my S's and would relish as much time with them as possible, I do not feel the need to impose myself on them. I have zero doubt that were I to also make a habit of dropping by xW's place each morning to see our S's, it would aggravate her to no end. But that alone is not a good enough reason for me to do so.
So I have decided that I will not force the matter -- if I see them in passing on my way to work, I will certainly stop and greet them with hugs and kisses, otherwise I will carry on during my week of "solitude" with stoic dignity.
I am counting on her eventually tiring of this game of hers, especially as I continue to make the effort to move us out the door each morning sooner than she can arrive.
I am certain this represents only but one means by which she "babies" our two boys, and much of this takes place under her own roof -- so there's nothing to be done about that. Thus I have to continue to work on them from "my end", shaping their characters -- at least to the degree that is in my power, of course -- so they will learn and grow up as wholly integrated young men free of the debilitating insecurities and character flaws that their mother seems to now laud and embrace.
(Unfortunately, even as a moderate counterbalance to her extreme co-dependent, insecure influence on them, I undoubtedly come off as more "cold" and lacking in "compassion", if only by degrees. It's a charge she has long sought to pin on me as would-be justification for ending our M. But I have at last learned to ignore her accusations, and to leave it in God's hands to shield my S's from her distortions of my motivations.)
Thanks for the words of advice, Gyps. I truly appreciate them. You may consider them imperfect, but given the greater imperfections in the World about us, they are very much more appropriate than one might at first think. Nothing in this world is perfect, after all.
*Hugs*
Thanks, BND.
xW created this crazy situation we are now in, but she seems to not want to accept her share of the costs, both monetary and otherwise, that these "games" demand.
But that is just who she is, and how she has been even during our M. She feels that I, as the H and now former-H, am supposed to shoulder the greater costs, on her behalf -- for anything and everything. Funny thing is that while I gladly accepted the greater burdens while M'ed to her, now that we are no longer M'ed -- and especially since she went and M'ed someone else -- I am under absolutely no obligation to her, not directly, even if she is the mother of my children.
Some day she might figure this out. I eventually did (thankfully).
NCB....sometimes you just have to laugh at the crazy and move on!!!
Yes, so true, BND. I really feel I am getting back to the point where the irony is not quite so acutely cutting and I can actually laugh at the insanity of it all again.
If I stop and think about it, it wasn't that long ago I was still trying to adapt to this insane situation, trying to gain my footing after having been floored. But three years ago at this time it was far worse -- I was drowning in the deep dark abyss of depression, without a clue as to the true cause. Now,... she is so strange/estranged from me... her insanity is no longer a part of me. And I can actually enjoy life from time to time again. Laugh even.
Been reflecting on a weird convo with the xMIL yesterday.
She began referring to the subject matter of the email her D (xW)) sent me a few days ago. Recap: xW was again trying to reiterate to me she was going ahead and ceasing payments to daycare and after-school care providers for the weeks I have custody of our S's. xW just wants to cover her own weeks, but still wants me to utilize her mother's "services" for that part of the childcare,as well as everything else during my time. Basically, I would be paying for half of xMIL's monthly fee directly, were I to go along with that.
Well, yesterday, when I was picking the boys up from xMIL's place after work, the (evil) xMIL was trying to engage me in conversation, beginning with minor small talk and then escalating to asking me about where I stood with regards to xW's change to our child support plans. xMIL began trying to (not-so) subtly to persuade me that her being a provider of after-school care for my S's was more convenient and "cost-effective" than the alternatives, which she claimed to have investigated. (Inside I was both annoyed, since I don't like to engage in any meaningful conversation with this person, and also laughing at the pettiness of her approaching me in such a self-serving manner.)
The other thing that bothered me about xMIL was that this conversation was right in front of my S's. I was not prepared to give her any sort of answer at this early stage, and certainly not in front of my S's. I tried to coyly deflect her onto allowing us to end the convo for now and addressing it later. She even started to sing some pity card song about needing to know because if she couldn't count on my paying her my half of her fees, she would be unable to pay for her apartment and thus be forced to seek assisted-living accommodations. (boo hoo.)
I flat out told her I was simply unprepared to even talk about it until I had completed talking with my L to make sure I wouldn't be shooting myself in the foot. xMIL then tried to offer arguments about her D's custody agreement with me, as if she were her legal counsel or something. At that point, I courteously closed the conversation and moved my S's out her door.
The nerve! Her welfare is none of my concern any more, if it ever was. Her D is the one changing things up and if xMIL is worried about that jeopardizing her cushy arrangement, which she has enjoyed at my expense all along, I cannot concern myself. I have not made my decision yet, one way or the other, and I am not going to be brow-beaten by parties who have vested interests.
I am trying hard not to be a vindictive person. Seriously, I'm not. xW and her mother have been making themselves very comfortable eating my own lunch for many years now. But I will make my plans for my S's based not on their needs or wishes or desires, but on what I deem is best for my S's.
I will be leaving in a minute now to go and pick my S's up today from xMIL's place -- and I can bet there will be more of the hard-sell from her again. Sheesh.
A simple, I am not dicussing this now should suffice.
kat
A simple, I am not dicussing this now should suffice.
(That's what one would think. But then some people can't accept No for an answer, of course.)
I think a lot of this kind of stuff would be avoided if you do get your own caregiver. You should have a good relationship with your boys' caregiver, and I don't think that's possible with your xmil...Unless she was the best caregiver ever with the best price; I would look elsewhere...
xW was again trying to reiterate to me she was going ahead and ceasing payments to daycare and after-school care providers for the weeks I have custody of our S's. xW just wants to cover her own weeks, but still wants me to utilize her mother's "services" for that part of the childcare,as well as everything else during my time. Basically, I would be paying for half of xMIL's monthly fee directly, were I to go along with that.
You need to check into all of it. I know that when childcare was being figured in my settlement, childcare was a factor. If I was paying for childcare that would have increased the child support. If you are taking over some of the responsibility for childcare then your child support should decrease....and you have the right to choose the childcare provider!
She even started to sing some pity card song about needing to know because if she couldn't count on my paying her my half of her fees, she would be unable to pay for her apartment and thus be forced to seek assisted-living accommodations. (boo hoo.)
Wow, she is really a piece of work!!! How did you not laugh?!
A lot of self control, I guess. It felt good to have kept a lid on my reaction. That's a win for me, I suppose.
Then again, I wish I could have
maintained that composure with xW this very morning. She called me during my drive into work today and began to accuse me of negligence for failing to pay for S9's upcoming field trip, the fee for which is due today. She pushed all my buttons and still managed to keep her own cool -- which tells me this was all precalculated on her part. At the same time she lauded herself and how she "always" handles these secretarial functions on behalf of our S's. She accused me of ignoring the note from the school about the trip, which I hadn't received, but she insisted I had. I contend that her mother withholds selected messages when the boys are at the xMIL's place for afters-chool care. xW rejected this and laid it entirely on my negligence, saying the note was "undoubtedly" somewhere at my residence. I ultimately snapped at her when she started into her old saw about me being irresponsible and failing to take care of my S's needs. I let it get to me and told her, "Oh, shut up!" I was definitely riled by that point and told her I did not have to take such snide remarks from her anymore.
I wish I could have held my temper, as that means I lost that little skirmish with her. I am
working on this. She's still the one person on earth who still illicits such strong reactions within me.
Don't answer the phone. Anything she needs to say can be said in an e-mail or voice message.
Yes, lesson learned.
I made the mistake of thinking that her calling me at that time might have been urgent, like something serious concerning the kids. But even if it were, I need to filter her calls and just let her go to voicemail. From now on. Whatever the consequences.
Uuuugh! It's been a while now since we last crossed swords like that, so I forgot how she enjoys sandbagging you when you least expect it.
I have learned...if it's urgent they will leave a message. i rarely have conversations with my X. The recent one regarding the kids activities included him boo-hooing about beng a part-time dad. I really have no time or desire to listen to that! LOL
Just wanted to say thanks to BND. I commented on your thread on your sitch but wanted to acknowledge it here. We all are born with the ability to shoot ourselves in the foot, but the WAS seems more prone to that, don't you agree?
<vent>
I wanted to just get a brief vent off my chest. Mostly to get it documented somewhere besides all the other obvious places.
S9 has a growing eating and weight problem. I think I've mentioned it before. I trying to do my part to ensure that he eats as healthy as possible while he and his little brother are with me, but it seems to becoming an uphill battle. The weeks they are with their mother, she now feeds them atrociously. I cannot believe she can be so utterly stupid. Constantly feeding them deep-fried foods. Buys them heavy desserts and empty calories that some might consider to be cruel and unusual punishment.
I'll give you a couple of examples just from this week. This weekend while buying them ice cream from the 31 flavors place she also picked up boatloads of donuts and other pastries. They had donuts of various assortments morning time and after dinner for dessert. Not only did S9 get a jelly-filled donut after dessert, but also a slice of cherry pie too. And as if that weren't bad enough, her new husband had fried them all a dinner of french fries and pork nuggets! Pork nuggets! As if deep-frieing otherwise lean chicken wasn't enough, they had to start off with high-fat pork instead. Might as well put breading on lumps of lard.
I know and understand many people have problems with their diet. I do understand. But this is, to me, absolutely ridiculous! My arteries were clogging up just thinking about their diet these last three days!
I know there's really very little I can do to combat what xW and her Jabba the Hutt husband feed my kids when they're with them. The mother can almost do no wrong in the eyes of the court, right? So I'm trying to keep my peace about this. But it impacts my ability to parent my sons when they're with me. Oh, of course, the boys have come to love their high-fat, high-sugar, overindulgent diets. It's gotten to the point where my S's are dissatisfied with much of what I prepare them now by contrast. I try to reward S9 for choosing healthier options but it is a constant struggle.
Heavy weight tends to run in some members of my family, especially on my father's side. I was somewhat overweight myself over six years ago -- until the doctor prescribed Weight Watchers (as a preliminary solution for Sleep Apnea). My kid brother was the one in my immediate family who had the serious life-long weight problem -- until he had a heart attack at age 36. And then he started seeing the light himself. For my youngest brother, who now suffers Diabetes atop everything else, to see pictures and video of S9 today and to make comments about getting his nephew's health back in order means a lot coming from him.
I don't really know what to do. It seems every time I see S9 a week after his mother has him, he looks even more heavy. (And it's hard enough keeping clothes on a growing boy without all this unnecessary stuff.)
I can mention it to the PC, but I can predict he'll say that as long as the children are "happy", there's nothing for him to do. Seems to be his canned answer to everything now of days.
And I'd try to involve the pediatrician, to see if she might raise a flag about S9's growing weight problem. But she had plenty of opportunity during their last physicals in January -- and if the doctor said anything then, xW surely has ignored her.
I don't think I'm overreacting. In fact I am amazed at how emotionally restrained I feel about this, despite the ache in my heart about what this is doing to the long-term health of my S's. What can you do?
I think you have to let go of what your S' are eating at your X's. Something you don't have control over. Do what you can, like mention to your PC, and then let it go.
Just like everything, I think it's important that you model healthy lifestyle/eating/exercising. The job I have now makes you realize how important it is to be healthy. I directly see every day people that have been severely impacted by obesity, smoking, and/or drinking. Motivates me to not wind up like that!
How are you finding out all this info about fried foods, donuts, ice-cream, at your X's house? If one or both of your sons is going on about this; I think it would be good to change the topic. Just relate to what is going on in your house. I also think if your X and Jabba continue to eat like that; they're going to have health problems soon, and your S will see that too.
Prayer can't hurt either. I'll add this to my list...
Thanks, Karen.
Yes, S9 likes to mention what he's had for dinner when I call to ask him and his brother about their day. He enjoys talking about the things he loves ... And food is one of those things.
I'll just have to let it slide and continuing to pray about it.
How about increasing the amount of exercise the kids have with you, to help counter the indulgences with mom. Even playing a round of HORSE is movement and is an easy way to be altogether.
Hi, Gyps. Yes, I can try to do what I am able. Increased exercise is certainly better than less in most cases.
NCB - one thing I have come to realize is that until ther eis actual physical harm (in your son's case it may be medical problems) then there isn't a whole hell of a lot we can do. It is sad when the X can't seem to put the children's interest before their own need to be the fun parent. In my son's case it is overindulgence with video games. Homework doesn't always get done, sometimes showers are also missed....but dad is his buddy cuz they play video games together. Ugh
My D11 has hit puberty and is getting curves and a tummy. This winter I signed her up for a swimming team but she stopped going because it was too hard -- and STBXW was no help. She never once took her to practice or a meet. It all fell on me.
I harped on D11 for a bit then I remembered the fights my dad and I would get into after the D about me not practicing baseball enough.
It was frustrating for him because he wasn't there every day anymore. I resented being told what to do. I was a teenager. I was more interested in friends and girls than practice by then.
Back to D11, I stopped harping and she's seeing things on her own. She doesn't like how she looks in clothes.
Now, I don't want her to develop a complex. I just want her to grow up healthy. And at my place, she doesn't eat after 8 p.m. We go swimming all the time. I try to get them up off the couch doing things. I buy lots of fruit to eat and water to drink. We never order pizza. They can only have fries once a week.
All you can do is give them a positive example. I weigh five pounds more than my high school graduation weight. STBXW outweighs me by 20 pounds and keeps looking for the magic diet or exercise machine to turn the tide. STBXW is just lazy when it comes to exercise. Two times she got down to size 2 and a size 4, but then she let herself go.
I think it's sinking in. She asked me to sign her up for a basketball camp this summer. I really think she'll start running with me a bit -- which will be hard because it means we have to leave D7 alone for 15 minutes or so.
Still. She's following my lead without me having to harp on her.
I think it's sinking in. She asked me to sign her up for a basketball camp this summer. I really think she'll start running with me a bit -- which will be hard because it means we have to leave D7 alone for 15 minutes or so.
Why not have D7 ride her bike along with you?
my son hates exercise but actually agreed to taekwondo classes, if possible how about the three of you go? my cousin would go with her 2 boys. It's hard to feed healthy stuff to the kids with all the fast food stuff right in front of their eyes, but stay firm and keep yogurt and cheese sticks at home for snacks, makes them smoothies with frozen fruit and yogurt, stuff like that.
Hi, Cat! Missed ya'...
*HUGS* and blessings to you.
On the topic of diet and exercise, controlling caloric intake versus cardiovascular activity, I've always believed in moderation as a sound policy for one's conduct, even in those times that I have inadvertently strayed from that. As they say, too much of a good thing...
hey NC, thanks
...trying to be good myself, my kids love sugar with a vengance... I've stopped buying gushers after my d7 got 6 cavities..ick!
Oh, that reminds me -- gotta' let the xW know the appointment time for S9 and S5's dental check-ups next month. As much sugar as she feeds them I don't want to think how many cavities they might be looking at this time.
...
On another note, Father's Day is Sunday. This year it falls during xW's week of custody -- and so she has been pressing me for information on what I want to do with that day, if I am expecting the whole day or not. She also tried last night, during the nightly call that our S's have with the other parent, to engage me in this conversation via S9 -- thus, again, using our S's to be the go-between in passing her messages to me. I replied, at first, that I was flexible and would leave much of the decision making to the boys, but that's never enough for her: she wanted more details -- I eventually told her to just email me.
I wish she would learn to leave the boys out of it.
I gathered in her correspondence with S9 and S5 that the reason she wants to press this issue and get an answer is because she wants to be able to reclaim some of the day for herself. And the reason she wants so badly for this on this day is because she is planning to take our S's over to the OM's parents place to celebrate Father's Day with them. As if Jabba-the-Hutt's parents are to mean more to S9 and S5 on this day than their very own father.
I know that's how she's thinking, because I know her all too well. I could hear it in the near-desperate edge to her voice as she spoke with our S's, trying to charge them up about the father of her current H, the A co-conspirator.
That, on my own account, doesn't bother me nearly as much as it probably should. The thought I did have at that moment was that in seeing all this activity and behavior on their part (xW's and OM's) these last few months to now treat OM's parents as if they were actual, bona fide grand-parents to my S's, is that my own mother -- a far, far better role model and a much more honest and loving human being -- does not get to enjoy such regular exposure to her own flesh-and-blood grandchildren when they do. I am saddened for my Mom's sake more so than my own.
Life is just not fair. I know that.
As for Father's Day, by the terms of our consent order, the custody for Mother's Day/Father's Days each begin at 8 AM and end at 7 PM. I know xW knows this, but she's playing dumb in hopes that I would yield to her enough of the day to overshadow my portion thereof, if she can, through her H's parents. But still I replied to her latest email and told her that as long as the boys and I had enough time to celebrate (through dinner, activities and entertainment) I was amenable to taking whatever time was actually necessary -- and it depended on what my S's and I decided together to do on Sunday, however long they felt we needed. (I'm thinking dinner and some form of entertainment -- and amusement park, or a movie.) It might not require the entire 11 hour period.
We shall see. I suspect xW will be upset that I am again "interfering" with her plans during "her" day of custody. Just like last year and the year before. Begrudging that I should ever be allowed to celebrate Father's Day on my own behalf. It's painfully obvious she has that much hatred in her for me.
While I muse about it here now in this thread, I am uncharacteristically unconcerned, either way, if she is inconvenienced or not. I just wanted to record this for myself and everyone here in DB.
If anyone has any thoughts, however, I'd be curious to hear them.
Just tell her you want the full time you are "allowed" that day, end of story. Quit sweating it. Quit worrying about her plots and plans because really you are giving her way too much power in your life.
You will be surprised how happy you begin to feel once you do this. Honestly.
hugs, kat
Point taken, Kat. But it's not like that, not exactly. I may have not expressed this correctly.
I am remarking more than anything at how mundane it all is. And aside from that brief sting I felt at what my mom loses in this, my reaction to xW is getting to be merely matter-of-fact. I don't know if that is good or bad.
My thoughts and feelings about her antics have somehow become like responding to the other "noise" in life -- or it's at least approaching it. I feel resigned to the fact that this is just the way it's going to be with xW, from now on. She's become a constant even in how frequently she wants to throw a monkey-wrench into things, and all her vain attempts to wrest control to herself of anything she can. I am taking this pretty much in stride, like taxes and storm clouds. That's what is now different about it.
I recount this new twist in her drama as just another boring episode in her never-ending series -- but it is the inaneness of it all that I find curious. Paradoxically. Do you know what I mean?
Thanks for the hugs.
Gee, maybe I'm starting to turn the corner. The third anniversary of the bomb came (Tuesday) and went with little impact. I barely remembered -- but then again I was out of town on business and
that might be more the reason. Being so darn busy has kept me preoccupied with other things.
But its the weekend now, and I have a little time to reflect. I'm missing my S's tonight, again. They're with their mother this weekend -- when I called she was driving them out to OM's place. To see the new treehouse they built for the boys on his property.
That's just a twisting of the knife in the back -- she's making good on her promise she made to our S's over three years ago, behind my very back, to give them a home out in the country ...with that @#*&( ! treehouse. (
Always that treehouse. She is relentless in getting what
she wants.)
(I know it's uncharitable of me, but would it be wrong of me to imagine if she were to slip and fall out of the tree when she attempts to climb it herself?
.................................
J-K ...sorta'.)
No, I want my children to have the things they really want and need in life. I just know
this is more
her dream than theirs. I'm not fooled (anymore) by her.
I am expecting to take my S's the full day on Sunday, but xW is still trying to weedle some of it back. I'm not caving if that's what she's hoping for. On the other hand, my employer is actually expecting me to work from home on Sunday morning because of the project I'm on. (I'm asking myself who the H*ll schedules a major install on Father's Day?!?!) So I expect xW will bad-mouth me if I have to work the first few hours of my custody with S's. To top that off, S9 is parroting his mother now, saying we shouldn't have to go to Church or Sunday School on Sunday -- and that just going outdoors in the sunshine is "all the communing with God that is necessary".
And my having to work the first part of the morning just puts me in the predicament of looking contradictory.
Am I expecting too much? I don't
think so. I just want a normal life, but this two-household conflict is insane. I keep wondering why so many people like myself have to find themselves dragged into this situation, a situation not really of their own making and certainly not one they bargained for. Yeah, I
know the answer to that, but it still seems so darn
senseless. We, as human beings, just can't seem to learn from the mistakes of the past, whether of those who've gone before us or of our own.
Ah, well, I must have too much time on my hands to again be pondering such things. So I'll leave these musings here for now.
Am I expecting too much? I don't think so. I just want a normal life, but this two-household conflict is insane. I keep wondering why so many people like myself have to find themselves dragged into this situation, a situation not really of their own making and certainly not one they bargained for. Yeah, I know the answer to that, but it still seems so darn senseless. We, as human beings, just can't seem to learn from the mistakes of the past, whether of those who've gone before us or of our own.
Yes, it's insane....but it's our reality. And we have to deal with it the best we can.
Hmmm... Reality, Insane. Two things come to mind...
First, a favorite quote:
"An sane man in insane world must appear insane."
Second is the early hit song by Seal, Crazy:
"We're never gonna' survive unless we get a little crazy..."
she is against you taking them to church? how crazy is this woman?! yikes... tell your son that the Lord wrote with his own finger to keep His day on the 10 commandments, that it is a sign, a seal between God and his people when we come to worship on that day, that it is his holy day where he rests and wants us all to worship in his house.
patience vibes your way NC)))))
Hi, Cat,
I wouldn't say xW is against my taking the boys to church. She has always tried to maintain she has been ever in God's good graces, that she is duly saved and unceasingly devout. However, in recent years she has adopted more "open-minded" qualifications to her faith, undoubtedly influenced by her faithless mother. The xMIL has long maintained that God doesn't really require His followers to have to worship in a particular building or even on a particular day of the week. In her thinking, it is enough to merely enjoy Nature.
It's partly true, I'd say - you really do not need a physical church to honor the Sabbath, but I gather xMIL doesn't really commune with God even in the midst of His creation. Or anywhere for that matter. It's all just an excuse, of course. A cover story. But she's a "big girl" and it's her life, her conscience, her soul.
Ever since the bomb xW has started adopting some of this very mind-set of her mother's that she herself pooh-poohed most of the prior years I've known her. "Godless", xW had described her mother's views, with an understandable mixture of sadness, concern, compassion and disproval. For my former W to now hold to such views shows me just how far she has truly fallen.
xW is a "big girl" too. So she's certainly responsible for her own self. My only concern is where she tries to subtly or not-so-subtly influence our S's to stray. Such as the words S9 parroted at me this week.
No, their mother doesn't overtly oppose our S's going to church. But it most definitely makes her uncomfortable now. I keep praying for her, and even her own mother, but I have learned that my prayers may not always be answered in the way I would hope or in the time that I would hope. The key is to continue to pray all the same even when it might seem hopeless, because one just never knows...
She's taking a different path now. I do think there's always hope. I still pray for my X sometimes that he'll find his way back (not to me but find his way to the right path again). You know the Mother's day sermon that he heard at my church: so clearly God was speaking to him. But he tunes it out. I think that must be so hard to do!
I have a lot of peace in my life now. I honestly believe my X has lost out big time by breaking up our family. He's made some really destructive choices (understatement huh). I'm not going to feel sorry for him; but I can't feel anger either, at least it helps me feel less anyway.
Hope you're having a great weekend!
Happy Father's Day NC!!! Hope you're having a great time with your boys and not working too hard!
Thanks, Karen, Kat for the well wishes for today.
I am feeling quite worn and stressed today. I know a Father's Day is not supposed to be that way, but work and the ex conspired to make it difficult. Still, though it started out rough, it ended up well enough.
I've been up since 5:30 AM. Had to work on the install project for my employer, slated this AM. My piece wasn't as involved as others, but it still took time out of my morning all the same.
I had already planned to make the 11 AM service at the church, even if S9 was insisting he didn't want to go because today was a "special day" (
sure is, little buddy. It's my special day and I get to say if we go or not.)
When I spoke to my S's Friday evening, they were in transit to OM's home, more than an hour away. The cellular connection was bad (xW's phone and mobile provider stinks) so it was difficult to get some of the details. It was during this call that S9 mentioned they were going to see the new treehouse for the first time. I asked S9 when they were coming back but did not get a straight answer -- a bad connection and too many distractions in a moving car.
When I called them the next night the signal was even worse. I spent much of the conversation trying to yell into the receiver and asking my S's to repeat themselves. It has been this way since xW took up the current phone and the current carrier over a year ago -- and xW has since decided to make this her only way to be reached by phone, having dropped her landline. (It's another reason I try to go by email with her). During this call, I came to the conclusion that xW does not want to be conducive to our S's having regular voice contact with me during her custody of them.
A little after 9 AM this morning, right after I had just wrapped up my time working on the project for work, xW dials my cellphone and begins to castigate me for not showing up to pick up our S's for Father's Day -- she is calling from OM's place and expecting me to have driven all the way out there to take my S's for the day! This was
in no way part of any agreement or understanding between us in how we were to conduct today, or
any day for that matter, and yet here she is acting all irate and accusing me of standing my S's up, purportedly.
This was the start of a very heated argument. More heated on her part, but I was not going to accept one iota of her assertions. A lot of words were said between us. I kept a lid on my rising anger and alarm, but I was not about to let her get away with her nasty little ploy. I could see right through her lies and could identify that she was attempting to blitz me with feigned anger and thus trying to put me on the defensive.
Her objective was to make it sound like I was in error about the plans, falsely claiming she had told me to drive out to pick up the boys at 9:30 AM, but all the while contradicting her own story. She tried to claim that the plan was reiterated to me both Friday night and on Saturday night (they most certainly had not) and that she had emailed me earlier in the week. Then she said that if I hadn't received the earlier email (which I know she had never sent) then that is not
her problem. She used several old saws and oft-repeated cliches of hers, such as "You must not really want your S's after all, since ou are not here to pick them up." And "That's just so typical of you, you never pay attention to what I say."
But she had the audacity to claim that an email she sent at 9:08 AM
this very morning (right before she called me) was the one she had sent earlier in the week -- to which I had supposedly refused to acknowledge -- or that I
would have received: It came out in the conversation that she might have had her message stuck in her Outbox and it was never really sent.
And yet she still wanted to proceed with the idea that I had refused to comply with her plan of action for today,
a plan she had never communicated to me in the first place. And then she had the nerve to claim, yet again, that
I am the one who is so poor at communicating.
My xW, if you can't figure out from this already, has gone bat-guano insane, evilly so.
She then demanded to know if I was on my way, right that very moment, driving out to Jabba-the-Hutt's trailer-park reject of a home. I told her no. I have no intention of ever making such a trip. The onus is not on me if she wants to go out there. She replied that I had better get used to it because they (she, OM
and my S's) were moving there permanently after August. I again told her No, I would not accept being the one to have to drive out of my way just to accommodate
her personal choices -- and I was certainly not going to allow her to establish a precedence for doing so today. Especially when she never conveyed her plans to keep our S's out there at all in the first place let alone expecting me to have to drive out to pick them up.
Having called her bluff she then began to ask whether I was going to drive and meet her half-way. I told her she was already jeopardizing my time with my S's on a day designated for me as a father in our own agreement, so as a show of flexibility I said I would leave out and meet her somewhere to take custody of the boys, but in no way was this to be misconstrued as how things were going to be when she finally did move away.
This launched us into a whole new line of argument, debating the parenting agreement and how her move-away and her altering of the child-support were justified or not. All the while we are driving towards each other we continued to debate these points over the phone.
Several "lu-lu's" came out of her mouth. To which I could easily refute.
Her, on the subject of changing the child support arrangements and why she previously insisted that she control it all before but now wants to split the responsibility for paying other parties 50-50: "I don't
trust you. I didn't trust you back then, and I
still don't now, but now I think you should shoulder more or the responsibility. I'm not doing you anymore favors."
My response: "
I am not the one who has proven to be untrustworthy, one who lies, cheats and steals. So your lack of trust can be levied against your own faults and weaknesses,
your insecurities."
Her response (an old saw of hers): "And
you think you're God and that you know me so well. You
think you know it all, know everything! But you don't really know me
or ever have."
Me: "If that's true, then who's fault is that. We were married for close to 18 years -- if I never
really came to know you in all that time being married to you, then you hid your true self too well. If you were always a shallow facade all those years I tried to know you, then
who's fault is that?!?"
Her, on the subject of the child support supplement: "You pay me
nothing; what you pay me doesn't even cover half of what I pay for daycare and nothing I pay to my mother for afterschool." When I tell her the supplement is the difference between what I pay and what she pays for care for our S's -- and that she continually neglects to factor in the cost of insurance coverage for our S's -- she continues to insist I am not paying anything and that she pays everythinng.
Her, when I reply that the payments are calculated on the state guidelines based on our reported incomes and our reported childcare costs and that
both of our lawyers approved of: "
All of you are wrong. You all don't figure in all of the costs correctly -- I'm paying them all!"
Me:"Well, either you're not faithfully reporting all of the income, costs and other factors that goes into the upkeep of S9 and S5, or you're presuming to know more about how to calculate what's fair and equitable between us than either of our L's, me, the state or even Mathematics.
Now who is the one who think's they're God?"
Her, on the subject of Father's Day: "I wish I had never agreed to allowing that as a part of our agreement. Father's Day is just a made-up holiday to pump up sales for greeting card companies -- you could celebrate it on
another weekend on
your own custody time."
<
This from Miss Greeting Card herself!
xW and her family are such greeting cards fanatics, that these companies P & L statements probably would suffer should they abstain from buying cards for any and every occasion. I recall how much she used to chastise me for not being so considerate as to follow suit in sending cards to the degree she did. Such hypocrisy!>
Me: "You know, I
know you don't have a lot of respect for fathers in general, or me as a father in particular..."
Her, interrupting: "You haven't earned it!"
Me:"...but... ...well in my opinion neither have you, but still, as I was going to say, I try to support our sons in respecting you anyway."
Her: "I don't know how you can be so cruel to your sons, to rip them away from their home just to be with you during my week. All because you think it's due you, just cause it's supposed to be some holiday."
<When I went out of town earlier this week, I gave her the option to keep our sons for those two nights -- during my week of custody. I missed them madly and feel short-changed in the custody this week, but I trusted they were okay with her all the same. I did not complain even once. And yet here she is begrudging me a once-a-year holiday, a holiday in particular recognition of my fatherhood, stipulated in our agreement to only be the majority of daylight hours at most -- and not the
entire day -- in the very same week. She has no sense of proportion or fairness.>
...and on and on...
There was a lot said, as I mentioned above, a lot more than just these snippets. It was a long drive, even if it was but half-way.
In the end I told her that we will, in the long run, "get this all worked out". And from now on we will go strictly "by the book", because any attempt on my part to act magnanimous and to be flexible on these matters is met with contempt and avarice on her part. She wanted to argue further, but by then I had caught up to her and we made the exchange.
I made a special effort to wipe away the signs of consternation that had lain on me during this trip and the mobile conversation between xW and I -- and I put on a genuinely happy smile and greeted my boys, then loaded them into my car. For me the argument was over at that very instant, for the duration of the time I was to have my kids.
We three then proceeded to church. Afterwards we ate a great dinner and then went to go see Toy Story 3 (--verrrry good, BTW). Today ended up being a very enjoyable time for us three.
I am a father. A good father, if I must say so myself. Not perfect, not by any stretch. But a good one. And the best one possible for my two S's. I have learned that I will take nothing from anyone, least of all my exW, that denigrates my love for them and my effort to do everything right by them. I am human and I do make mistakes. But like many of the fathers here in the DB forums, I am doing everything humanly possible, given the ugly circumstances many of us find ourselves in, to parent our children as soundly as possible.
...
I got a couple of Father's Day cards from my boys this morning. S9 was very proud of the one he made for me. S5 was proud of his too, although, as S9
just had to point out, S5 merely picked his card out in the store. I certainly don't mind. They both did a wonderful job in both of their cases.
S9 then had to mention the card they got for OM. He said they gave "Mr. OM" a Father's Day card this morning too. Another store-bought card, S9 noted, picked out by his mother. Not a step-father card or something generic, but a bona fide card for someone who is a real father -- signed by my two S's.
I can tell you that that does gall me. OM is not a father, at all. He has no children of his own. All the children in this and all his other M's came from other families. And yet xW wanted to exalt this miscreant to the same status or higher than my own, using my own children.
She is so
sick, sooo very petty. She
thinks she is going to succeed in replacng me in our children's minds and hearts, but that is: not. going. to happen. -- as long as
I am around she will fail miserably in that.
Ugh, I got stressed out just reading your update! I hope you were able to enjoy the day with your boys despite all of her spew.
You know who the real dad is, and your kids do, too.
Was she sayimng all of those things to you while driving in the car with your kids? If so that needs to be stoped. You need to tell her you will not engage in conversations like that when the kids can hear.
Yes. In the car. The whole drive. The kids could hear her.
I would hope they were wearing headphones and watching a DVD in the back seat (which is what she usually does for them on road trips), but I saw no evidence of that this time. I won't trust her to use common sense anymore.
As for the remainder of the day it went very well, despite the rocky start. For that I am thankful.
In a post mortem reflection on xW's spew-fest yesterday, I can concur with the impression I got during the incident. I believe she was angry and jealous that I was interrupting her plans and desires to have our S's honor her new H and his father for Father's Day.
She had broached the subject through our S's the weekend prior (see previous post) and in a subsequent email to me asking me what the terms of our agreement were regarding the particular holiday. Her objective all along was to bluff me and coerce me into giving her all or part of the day. I tried to be flexible with her, but that wasn't enough for her apparently. So on the very morning in question she made up this ploy saying she had dictated to me a plan earlier in the week. And she sent an email to try to claim she had put it in writing, but she sent the email right as she was calling me.
Quite simply, she tried to pull a fast one. And she tried to browbeat me into either driving all the way out to OM's place or (better yet for her) giving up altogether. Having failed to coerce me through our S's earlier in the week, she turned on her full nasty mode, pulled out all the stops, and used every cliche in her arsenal. She sang a song I have heard over and over again these last three years -- but I have learned the counter-harmonics to it in that time.
Yes, it was very stressful. But I held my calm, relatively speaking. I worry about my S's, however. I tried to take their minds completely off of what they might have witnessed.
I continue to pray, every day, she would learn to grow up, and act like a sane person. I pray for her to come to understand and accept that a father does indeed have just as much right to their children as the mother (exceptions aside, of course). For my own sake I would like there to be no more of this drama. For our children I wish for there to be peace. I can't do this alone, it has to be mutual.
It's funny, I was just thinking the evening before all this conflagration erupted that I truly and deeply love my two little ones, and I am so very happy being their father. I think if I had to sum up the bright spots in my mortal existence on this little mudball we call planet Earth, S9 and S5 are at the top.
I have all along planned to be and wanted be a father, but it was just one of many goals I held for my life. At one time I would have been amazed had you told me this back then, but more than any award or accolade in career or other endeavor, my children are the best achievements in my life so far. Family means so very much to me.
I love those little f*rts.
For my own sake I would like there to be no more of this drama. For our children I wish for there to be peace. I can't do this alone, it has to be mutual.
Honestly all you can control is your involvement and keeping your actions drama free. Create an environment of peace for you and your kids. My X used to call me and try to fight with me on the phone when the kids were with me. I would calmly repeat that I could not have that conversation right now, please e-mail me with your concerns. Funny thing is now, 3 years later, my D12 has confided in me that she was able to hear X yelling on the phone and remembers me saying that to him. She appreciates what I did to keep the nastiness away from them.
I think your X was totally upset b/c she couldn't have the fantasy day she planned with OM and her kids. Reality is painful for her. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I don't think you should talk to her on the phone esp. when she's acting crazy like that. And usually either you or she will have the boys there. Tell her to email you and hang up if she yells or act nasty. Of course, you can give me the same advice--but I do try to stick to email when possible. Most of the times when X calls me now it's when he's mad about something and wants to vent at me. Don't need to put up with that anymore; well no one should anyway.
I'm glad at least you got to spend the day with your boys. I do have to think that if you suggested your X give up Mother's day with her boys; that would have gone over real well.
Thanks, BND, Karen,
In retrospect, while I kept my own self in check, I could hear the mounting insanity in xW's spew the whole time. I should have cut the conversation off, but I unwisely let her run her mouth off and even kept adding fuel to the fire. Had I realized my S's were possibly being exposed to this, I certainly would have told her to email me. I should have thought.
It was not a shining moment for me either. It does not matter if she happens to be this way all the time anyway.
(((((nc)))) I concur with Bobby, I got stressed out and Ticked off just reading your post...It still amazes me how they act like they have not been the cause of the dismemberment of your family, She cheated and lied about it , UMMMM no brainer here.
You are a good father, a damn good one and do not let her make you think otherwise.
Her driving along in the car with them fighting with you is dangerous....you should definately address that fact that she had those boys in the car listening to all of her crap while driving down the road....not acceptable.
Wish I could give you a real hug, but know that I am thinking of you...have you been getting out much?? email me if you need to.
Take care
Thanks for the kind words, Irish. I hope you all are doing well.
The more I think about xW continuing to say the things she did whilst driving our S's down the road, and with no effort to shield them or distract them elsewhere, not headphones, no DVD, no nothing to take their attention off their mother's harsh words... the more I feel so bad for them.
There was a point where I briefly thought of asking her, "I hope the boys can't hear what you're saying right now, can they?" But I didn't pursue it. I guess I was still a bit too blitzed from her verbal assault.
It's like she doesn't care anymore, or has any shame. Or that she just has this severe myopia when it comes to her own wrong-doing. She has seemed to always try to provoke me when our S's were in my presence, so she could paint me as "angry" and "combative". That's why I have learned to never let her bait me like that, especially in front of S9 or S5. But where she is concerned she doesn't seem to worry, like she thinks no one could possibly think her actions or motives wrong.
I don't know.
All I do know is that I cannot trust her to shield our S's from her own words and deeds. So no more telephone exchanges. This was not supposed to have gotten so offtrack, but it did.
As for myself, have I been getting out much? No, not really, not this week. Not as much as I would like. I did go to another bible study / dinner/ social gathering with friends on Saturday. And of course there was the time with my S's on Sunday.
But not much since then. I've been too harried by work. They're acting pretty draconian with us, more so than usual of late, demanding involuntary overtime, with no compensation. They've gotten so majorly hardline with me in the last few months, I can't figure out why. They now have placed restrictions on vacation and other PTO hours. All my peers are feeling the pinch as well.
I've been with this company for over 8 years, but I'm thinking it might be time to move on. I don't know.
I get the boys back tomorrow evening. Saturday we have a big hike with the cub scouts -- that should be fun. I also bought a new bicycle for S5 (since I accidentally trashed his current one during the apartment move -- the darn thing just popped off the bike carrier while cruising down the highway, tore it up quite a bit.)
I want to hear how everyone else is doing too, especially you, Irish.
One thing I've learned lately is it's prob. a good idea to have a Plan B. I plan on working on getting my teaching certificate and being ready to get a teaching job if my current one doesn't work out. Always good to have options anyway. You could fix up your resume and just start looking around. A lot of websites even email you job openings.
Hope you're having a good week!
I have been casually looking for several years now. But the change in tone here at work is starting to spur me to look more actively again. The souring of the economy hasn't helped.
I recall investing quite a bit in helping the xW change careers to her now lucrative one. Early in the M we were in agreement that I too would eventually need to take measures to keep my skills in my own career honed (especially being in IT) -- including my own return to school one day. Funny how we were never able to pull the trigger on that, becoming far too dependent on my own income for me to take anything less during an educational hiatus, even if part-time. It was never the right time for reciprocating the favor. Now another man reaps the benefit of that sacrifice (just one of many, I know).
Now I know how the
first wives club feels. Heh!
Right now I am busting my tail at my current position and trying to raise two boys whilst taking an online class for mobile platform development. It is really difficult as a single parent, even on the weeks I am without custody.
I'm not complaining, just identifying things the way they are. I just hope and pray I can find a new stepping stone and get established upon it before this one sinks away from me. I have faith that whatever comes God will look out for us.
I think you're doing great, Karen, and the Plan B is a very sound plan. How's everything else?
^bumping you up friend^ Hope you are ok.
T
Hello, my friend,
I am around, just danged busy. I saw my two S's off this morning, they're starting their week with their mother. She'll have them for the holiday weekend, again.
Just when I think I can manage my time away from S9 and S5, thinking it's "only a week", I have got this heartsickness gnawing inside of me, seeing that I am not there with them as their father every day, like I feel I should. My sense of justice kicks in and I wonder, yet again, why a parent and their child are forced apart by circumstances they never bargained for. I again find myself appalled at the unfairness of it all. The insanity of it all.
I guess it's the holiday weekend that seems to magnify this feeling. I should be thrilled to have the time off, even if it is without my little ones to share it with, but I am having a hard time shaking it.
And to add insult to injury, tomorrow, the 3rd, would have been my 19th wedding anniversary...
I had thought us very clever to line up a wedding date so that our anniversaries would always be right before a major national holiday. My thought had been that we would always plan to have July 3 off and thus have the 3rd and 4th off back to back -- with two consecutive nights of "fireworks" every year.
Now? I am thinking that was a very stupid idea. Very stupid, all around. Any thoughts I have for the Independence Day holiday now automatically draw my mind to the M. If it had been on some otherwise non-descript day, I could more easily forget. <sigh>
(Let that be a lesson for ya', kiddies!)
I am trying to find out what some of my friends are doing this weekend, those I know will be bereft of their own kids as well this week. Perhaps some of us can do another cook-out or take in a ball-game. I need to do something to take this stuff off my mind.
Why aren't rotating holidays like most of us in this insane world? It doesn't matter whose week it is the holiday still gets rotated. Gee, I will be happy when D9 is 18 and we won't have to deal with this stuff any more...no more have to's.
kat
Any thoughts I have for the Independence Day holiday now automatically draw my mind to the M.
That's your choice. Chose not to.
Point taken.
I spent 17 years trained to associate these two events together -- it is taking a little time to unthink this way.
Hey NC..
It's odd. The former spouse and I met on St. Patrick's day, one and three days after our birthdays, respectively. We were married a year and a few weeks later on April 10. So B'days, anniversaries of meeting and getting married were all muddled together.
As far as I can see, the longer I picked the wound, the more it kept hurting. Letting go of the crap, anger, fear, sense of helplessness.. setting boundaries all help. Even now I get tired when dealing with the ex spouse but it's easing.
Embracing that my whole life no longer centers around the divorce helps. Some things will never have an answer. But I can set my boundaries. The less I act like a victim, the less I am. The more strength I gain.
At some point the divorce gets boring. Same old, same old. Folks behaviors don't change. They're consistent. I can only control me. I ask myself, what works best for me and the kids. What keeps me healthy?
The more I let go of him (the memories, the flashbacks, the what if's, the growls) it's so much easier to feel good.
Let go of the hook, don't take the bait, and walk strong.
It is what it is.. only you can decide where to take it and how much baggage to carry.
*hugs*
Time heals. Time heals. The 4th is big for me, too. It was the first time STBXW and I were together. We'd make sure we celebrated that anniversary every year until about six years ago. Then it just became another day.
Last 4th was tough. STBXW offered to let me have the kids and I didn't have anything going and gladly accepted. We had a GREAT time, but it turned out STBXW had an ulterior motive. She had a party to go to.
That was a bit of a lesson -- don't ever think she's offering extra time with the kids out of the goodness of her heart.
This year in mediation I basically made sure she had the kids for all of the party holidays. It's my turn to GAL.
Tonight is good. Going to a bar tour for a TV reporter who is leaving town. Tomorrow night is sketchy. I'll have to ask around, but I'm playing golf in the afternoon.
Sunday? Church then meeting a church singles group at 5:30 p.m. for the fireworks.
I'll get to see two very pretty eligible single women -- one tonight and one Sunday. I'm hoping to ask one or both out eventually. I'm just soooo afraid of rejection right now I haven't been able to just go for it.
My HOPE is that this 4th is the beginning of new memories to replace/augment the old. I mean, I doubt I'll ever forget the first 4th between STBXW and I. I just hope I have other great 4th memories to think of as well.
Something good is going to happen to you. Just believe it.
Thanks, Gyps, CTH,
I do know that I will get beyond this, have gotten very far just in the last year alone (I can look back and see).
And I have faith that this too will pass. God has plans for me (as I know He does for each and all of us) -- I have full confidence in that. It may or may not entail some lucky lady to be my new partner, I don't know, and that's not the point.
But having said that, it is apparent that I am still going to be reminded of these things from time to time, certain holidays being major recollections for me. That's just the nature of it all. Something I will occasionally have to deal with, but I'm getting there.
The loss of my M is one thing. But the loss of my family is another; and it is the absence of my two children, my family, that I am really feeling most at the moment. That's not something I expect to ever get over. Not really.
But to be honest, I sometimes don't know how to express my thoughts and feelings here in these forums without everyone starting to worry that I am still "stuck". I am not going to carry on in denial about the things that affect my moods, I am as candid as I can be. But perhaps too candid.
I don't know.
But on the other hand, I realize that much of what I have said above sounds too much like the glass-is-half-empty talk. Some would say I should be grateful for the time I do have with my S's. And I do/am. I know that I appreciate the blessings that God has bestowed upon me because I have a wonderful life, even despite all the cr*p some people might dump on me.
I take the good with the bad, but I also take the bad with the good.
And like CTH said, taking the very words out of my mouth, Time heals. And my progress seems like the pace of the tortoise versus the hare. But at least I am moving steadily forward anyway.
I just need to voice myself at times, as my means for working through this.
Wow. Time flies.
...I hadn't realized it has been just over a month since I last posted on my own thread.
I'm still taking things a little at a time. Living one day at a time. Been extremely busy with work. The boys just tracked back into school yesterday. S9 started the 4th grade (wow, again) and S5 just started Kindergarten (triple wow.)
The boys are good, but there are little issues we're dealing with, still. S5 had frequent behavioral issues in day camp at the Y -- a new kid kept picking on him relentlessly. S5 is a bit sensitive and is not accustomed to restraining himself when threatened. He ended up having to sit out camp several days (somewhat voluntarily) because he tends to push or shove when verbal conflicts start (it's how he deals with an older brother, unfortunately.)
I am quite proud of S5 however for getting it all under control in the remaining days of camp last week, reporting a very good time. He finally followed my advice for once, keeping his hands to himself and sticking close to one of the counsellors when the other boy starts to aggravate him -- this time the other boy was caught red-handed trying to instigate trouble, resulting in HIS suspension.
I think S5 is catching on. But I have him scheduled for counseling next week, the next step in the path started back in March at the request of his Pre-K teachers. He has gotten better since then, but it is obvious he could use a little help. The incidents at the Y this last month reflect that.
S9 is also gearing up for Webelos. I've got to get him a new uniform, and he's such a big kid for his age. He seems to be doing very well. But I still find it a struggle sometimes to have him keep his hands to himself, particularly around his little brother. That Asperger's thing.
xW is still moving out, said to be out by next weekend from these apartments and fully entrenched over at the OM's place. I can bet he will some day rue that decision -- she's going take his property away from him before its over.
That's none of my concern regardless, except where my S"s are concerned. I am dead certain she will now begin the slow steady move towards getting our S's moved out that way and to transfer them to other schools. All more than an hour away from here. It's like seeing a major storm front approaching from many miles away, a dark foreboding cloud cover promising thunder, lighting and hail. She wants her way and to force me out of the picture, but I will stand my ground and fight her every step of the way, God willing.
I am continuing onward with my day to day life, working myself silly, raising my boys, sharing a little fellowship with friends, and writing part of a new novel, but all the while knowing the storm is a'brewing.
I've been thinking a lot lately about things, mostly out of summoning emotions and thoughts in putting word to paper (electronically anyways). I've revisited some of the thoughts and feelings I've had over the years, particularly in the M and in the separation. I find in my current reaction quite a bit of regret for much of my own words and deeds from back then, especially in the days following the bomb. I see the foolishness and the folly, though I can't find fault in keeping hope alive. I wish I could take back some of the words, changed my tone.
In many ways I wish I had thrown in the towel sooner. Not that I am disagreeing with DB principles, but that they were just not going to work in their unvarnished form in my sort of situation. I think, paradoxically, that had I recognized xW for just exactly who she really was and agreed to the divorce sooner then tough love might have shaken her to more rational regard for me and my position. Perhaps. I think resisting her through trying to "save" the M merely gave her something to fight against and a means to demonize me. I do not think it would have changed the final outcome, we likely still would have divorced, but it might have taken the wind out of her sails for her next phase, which was to try to also take my children away.
It was this latter that pains me more than anything. She has her own free will to which I have no domain, so she can go if that's how she really feels, but to try to alienate my own children from me is too much.
So maybe the acrimony was inevitable.
But of course one should not be dwelling too long in the past other than to learn from it. The apostles tell us, "But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus."
[Phillipians 3:13-14]
We have to keep moving forward, at whatever pace we are able.
In many ways I wish I had thrown in the towel sooner. Not that I am disagreeing with DB principles, but that they were just not going to work in their unvarnished form in my sort of situation. I think, paradoxically, that had I recognized xW for just exactly who she really was and agreed to the divorce sooner then tough love might have shaken her to more rational regard for me and my position. Perhaps. I think resisting her through trying to "save" the M merely gave her something to fight against and a means to demonize me. I do not think it would have changed the final outcome, we likely still would have divorced, but it might have taken the wind out of her sails for her next phase, which was to try to also take my children away.
Think that totally makes sense. Dropping the rope is hard but essential. Hindsight is always 20/20 though.
But of course one should not be dwelling too long in the past other than to learn from it. The apostles tell us, "But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus."
[Phillipians 3:13-14]
We have to keep moving forward, at whatever pace we are able.
Great verse and inspirational
NC, I think we all dropped the rope as soon as we are able. We all progress at different rates. I know I have regrets sometimes--definitely wish I'd kicked X out when he was living with me and the kids and "dating" OW or whatever you want to call it. I would NEVER put up with that again!!! But I remember I was in that kind of mood where I was full of regrets, and my therapist at the time said but you did the best you could at the time, she was right, as much as a depressed, zero self-esteem person could do. And you know I think it's 100% admirable that you worked on your marriage, and fought to keep your family intact. You shouldn't have regrets. And truthfully, I think if our X's weren't kind of nutty, we may have had more success. Nothing you can do about that...
Hindsight is always 20-20.
Of course, back then I really could not come to grips with just what I was dealing with. I could see the betrayal, of course, but it took me a while to really understand the depth of that betrayal, just how far she was willing to hurt me and take me for everything. And given the person I had always seen her to be, for the previous 17 years I had know her, it was impossible to find congruence in the two extremes of personality. Night and day. Night and day...
I think I had for so long held out hope that the "day" persona had been real at least once upon a time and would soon resurface.
Yes, letting go was best in my case. And sooner might well have been best. Perhaps. I'll never know.
But I have no regrets for standing for M, even if it exacerbated the animosity of the wayward. I know now, just as I knew then, to the very core of my soul, that it was more important to stand for honor and to stand on principle, whatever the cost to myself personally, to be the model of love, integrity and commitment to ideals before my children. And so I can rest assure that I will be able to look my two S's squarely in the eyes some day and honestly tell them I did my best for our family and stood for my M to their mother. And while I continued to make mistakes along the way I know that those were often the result of hard choices, and opting for the lesser of two evils.
...
It's been about three years now since I discovered these boards. I continue to lurk and check in on the many friends and acquaintances I have found here. I also remark about how many lives have changed and that many have moved on. Most are on the alt now, more so there than in DB now. It is the way of change I guess.
Hi, Karen,
I missed your reply above somehow. Yes, I can agree that our former spouses were indeed nutty. But I seem to find myself second-guessing my actions of late, wondering from time to time if I had taken a different tact might have had better results.
But these thoughts get me nowhere. That's all in the past and cannot be undone. The most that such reflection can do for me is to help me avoid similar mistakes in the future.
I had the first consultation yesterday for S5's counselor. It was just an intro for the parents. xW decided to be about twenty minutes late showing up.
I was a little annoyed at first that she decided to be tardy, but it turned out to be sort of a good thing in the end. It gave me and the C a chance to speak together without xW's interference. In retrospect I guess I was quite a bit more loquacious with the C than after xW finally arrived -- and I think it was enough that the C noticed.
We had been talking about the interaction between S9 and S5. And I was offering my observations that S5 has been exhibiting behaviors that are likely the result of his frustrations with his older sibling, who has Asperger's. S5 is trying to cope with a very controlling and demanding older brother; and while they do love each other very much, it causes S5 a lot of stress. So he has shown a penchant for alone time, and seems to relish one-on-one time with either of his parents. Time in which S5 gets to be his own person without the heavy often overbearing influence of S9. S9 thinks that he is in complete charge of S5 and his well being, he often fails to understand that his little brother is his own person with his own individual personality.
S5 has learned, through his interactions with S9, to deal with people who violate his personal boundaries by taking forceful actions (pushing, shoving, seeking revenge, etc.) While this usually doesn't bother S9 all that much and there is no diminishment of their love for each other, this is not a constructive remedy for any other situation and is counterproductive for handling social situations outside the home. The behavioral incidents that spurred the observations by S5's Pre-K teachers were the very reason we were seeking C'ing services for him.
I was relating my observations to the C when xW showed up. I gave xW a chance at that point to add to what we had been discussing. Looking back I tried to be magnanimous and to give xW the chance to contribute her own perspectives to describing the issues with our S -- which xW most certainly did. Not unexpectedly, xW attempted to demonstrate her "superior" knowlwedge as a parent and as a lay-expert on Asperger's Syndrome (AS), especially regarding our S's. While much of xW's words confirmed or supported my own statements, some of them were contradictory, and some of xW's assertions were painfully self-serving. I held my tongue and decided it would be counterproductive for me to voice a contrary opinion or to be confrontational. But I realize that I was becoming more and more silent, and the C could obviously note the difference. In fact there was a point where the C made a comment that was subtly directed at me, and I gathered that the C was offering me the opportunity to add some more of my own input. The funny thing is, I thought I was contributing as necessary.
It was then that I realized that I was barely breathing.
In my head I was calm and trying to absorb some of the information xW was offering. She was going on about "consistency" in raising the boys, and how she felt her approach was the one having positive results. She contradicted a number of points I had raised before she had arrived, and took credit for things she most certainly had nothing to do with. I said nothing because it would have merely devolved into a he-said-she-said argument. I didn't think it was worth it given our purpose there was to help S5.
As a result the C suggested that she have separate sessions with the each of us, myself and xW, prior to her seeing S5. She identified that her reason was that she felt she would get a more complete picture from us individually than if we were both present. I nodded my head in agreement, but inside I was enthusiastically in support of separate sessions. I was realizing just how repressed and oppressed I had been feeling with this former spouse around. I look at how I have reacted and now think this is not me -- how did I get here? I have been walking on eggshells for so many years now, that I now feel a sense of freedom when she leaves and I am suddenly away from her. She has become a person who I just do not want to be around anymore.
Driving back from the appointment, it hit me -- I realized that to a large degree I was very much like S5 in our M and xW was more like S9. She always wanted control of the situation -- our family, our finances, our decisions -- everything to do with our MR -- and I was foolish enough to yield so much to her. It was not so healthy a R as I had always assumed. And while I figured out the control-freak nature of xW through the MC's help, I am now figuring out the parallels in the dynamics between our S's and those of the MR.
I can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.
Now, having said that, I am acutely concerned that this dynamic between my S's does not also eventually lead to animosity between them. I can already see that S5 is becoming more and more resistant to having his brother dictate to him. And while some of that is the natural friction between siblings in general, whatever their neurological conditions, I am more sensitive now to the potential problems this may lead to. Fortunately they will never be able to D from each other in that sense, but it has the potential to lead to a similar schism some day when they are older. That would be a terrible shame.
At the same time I am earnestly seeking help and solutions to aid my S's cope with their situations and to help then grow into well-adjusted adults. S5 needs to learn to handle the challenges with which he is faced, including an Aspie for a brother and the rigors of socializing with his peers.
You can only control your time with them. Keep giving them a proud stand-up father and they'll gravitate your way.
I understand about that difficult dynamic. In my case, my D11 gets extremely frustrated with D8, who is ADHD. You just have to handle D8 differently, more with kid gloves.
D11 notices the difference. She also struggles because she tries, tries and tries to be a good big sister and D8 still bulldozes her.
Man, parenting is tough. I now find it EASIER to do it alone because I don't have to put up with STBXW's moods. I still wish we were a team and doing things together. But the last three years we were together we weren't really a team.
Are there any recourses on the school situation? Can she just move them to a different district without your input.
I'm lucky. At best, STBXW would move closer to her mother, who is picking up where STBXW used to lean on me. That's just 20 minutes north.
And if she did that I no longer would be able to help watching them after school. That would suck. I wouldn't see them every day, but it would mean I'd pick up an additional night with them. In mediation, she agreed if I couldn't see them after school then I'd get them two nights a week on my off weeks.
I'd end up having them six nights out of every 14 -- very nearly 50/50.
I also wish I'd done things differently in the beginning of the separation, but that's water under the bridge and I keep reminding myself of the name of another thread -- this is a marathon, not a sprint.
Are there any recourses on the school situation? Can she just move them to a different district without your input.
She's not
supposed to be able to. xW is required to negotiate any major decisions concerning our S's with me, or failing that through the parenting coordinator. But then she's not supposed to have cheated on her H (me) either, or broken up our family, or perjured herself about my character, or a whole slew of other things she shouldn't be allowed to do. Moreover, my former spouse has proven she will say and do pretty much whatever she pleases, and so I know that she will proceed with her plans anyway, one way or another.
NC, I've always noticed similarities in our sitches. I feel the freedom now too. It's wonderful! I think controlling people; sometimes it happens kind of slowly and gradually and you don't realize how much you are being controlled until later.
My kids copy our personalities too: S16 is like me; and D10 is bossy and controlling. I guess they learn from their parents. I just hope that maybe with time they'll become more balanced; S16 will be more confident and assertive, and D10 might become a little less controlling and more relaxed. I see myself doing that; sometimes it just takes a while!!!
Sounds like that C is very good, observant, and not likely to buy into your X's bs. That's wonderful to hear!!!
Karen, it's almost funny -- I look back now to the early part of the separation and recall how xW had tried so hard to assert that it was I who had always tried to control her... and that I was the one who was cold-hearted and selfish. I can be candid enough to recognize that we both had our selfish tendencies, but never did I harbor any malice towards during the time of our M, at no time did I wish her ill. Quite the opposite.
I was worried about the C, and am still a little reticent about employing her services given the consultation three years ago. xW had lied to her in front of me, putting on crocodile tars and saying that S9's problems stemmed entirely from how I neglected his mother. At the time I was trying to DB my W, trying to salvage the M, so I failed to correct xW's assertions properly. As such I hav worried that we left the C with the wrong impression, a fabrication constructed by xW and that I failed to counteract, tainting the C's view of our situation. When the C at the time was already agreeing with the then W's conclusion that the D was a foregone conclusion, predicated on xW's false tears, I decided I wasn't all that confident in the C's ability to read the situation correctly.
But apparently she's gained a little more knowledge in that time. I am willing to see how it turns out this time, three years later, for S5.
Yesterday in church the associate minister gave a very inspiring message about "soul mates". Some of what he said just struck a serious chord in me, such that I found tears welling in my eyes at the recognition of what he was saying and what it reflected in my own experience.
One thing he said was that a soul-mate is someone who cares for the well-being of your soul as much as their own. I immediately recalled my former spouse -- and I realized that by that definition I was her soul-mate, but she proved herself to not have been mine. I have always been concerned for the well-being of her spiritual health, even after the S and D. In fact that is the one thing -- if anything -- that continues to haunt me directly about her: I worry about the loss of her mortal soul and what could have taken the person I thought I knew for so many years away like that.
Conversely, I see how she has regarded me for at least the last three years -- the coldness, the hardness of her heart towards me, the continual malice and contempt she harbors for and stokes against me. As I was going through a hell on earth, the darkest days of my life, albeit at her own hand, she showed no shred of genuine compassion and absolutely no good will or concern for my soul. If I had died and gone to Hell she would have bid me good riddance and just desserts. And sadly, I do not think that thought to be mere hyperbole on my part.
It has chilled me to the marrow to recognize this. Though I loved her truly, she was not my soul-mate. More-to-the-point, she declined to be a soul-mate. That has been a profound revelation.
Much as I (still) mourn the person she was, I now see that God was leading me through this pain then so that I might escape the darkness my R with her brought me. The depression I suffered due to her checking out of our R would have eventually destroyed me had not God allowed the bomb to wake me to this harsh reality. I continually marvel at this bewildering paradox: how the most horrible event in my entire life has actually saved me.
Oh, forgot to mention another thing. Saturday I went to another dinner party and bible study with my friends. The first we've had since our July hiatus. Had a very good long talk with everyone and throughly enjoyed myself catching up with them.
I have been blessed with a great circle of friends with a lot of great insight. I just love these people!
Thanks for stopping by. School starting is always hectic and I am sorry I haven't been checking in as well as I should have. glad you are reconnecting with friends and that you feel good about that.
kat
NC, I just think it's easier for some of our X's to be angry and bitter at us rather than maybe look at themselves. I'm sure she has moments where she has regrets over her actions, and if not, well that would be too shallow to be believed.
I agree with you. These days are probably the happiest I've been in years. I'm tempted sometimes to thank my X, but then nah, I realize that would be silly!
I do appreciate so many good friendships I've made because of the D: friends here and elsewhere. I appreciate my life and blessings much more now; I'm sure you do also...
Thanks, Kat, Karen,
Yes, I do appreciate things more now -- the right things. Friendships, relationships, with the right people. That includes all of you here in DB as well. I also value a more personal, more meaningful R with God. And that makes all the difference.
Life is not perfect, but then I don't expect it to be. Partly because I am all too conscious of our human fallibility ... and partly because I know that Eternity will be perfect, that takes the pressure off of the now.
I'm probably not making much sense. Too much sleep deprivation.
I got my S's this evening, beginning of a new week. It's felt like a million years since I last saw them. I really missed them.
This morning I met in one-on-one with S5's prospective C, a family psychologist. As soon as I entered her office it was apparent that she (the C) was having reservations again about whether we really needed her services in the first place. She had flip-flopped once before in our first meeting last week.
I found out that the C had been having some scheduling troubles with xW. xW was continually reversing herself about scheduling her own one-on-one session with the C prior to S5's first session. The purpose of the meetings with the parents is to give the C enough information from the each of us such that she can form a proper assessment of S5 once he himself is present. To lay the groundwork for an eval of the child.
But given xW's sudden drop in interest and her sudden down-playing of S5's issues -- not to mention her tardiness and lackadaisical demeanor to these meetings, the C could only conclude that there was no real reason to pursue C'ing for S5, at all, not when his own mother is no longer taking it as serious as his other parent.
So the C suggested we just cancel the remaining appointments altogether and just play watch and see with S5. I could only agree, as these first sessions were to explore whether S5 had any reasons for his behaviors that might be more systemic, growing problems and to seek to remedy them as a preventive measure. If there was too little in S5's behaviors for what we were describing, even if this was all triggered by concerns expressed by S5's pre-K teachers, I myself can agree that pursuing this further might be a waste of time and resources, if this matter will resolve itself.
But after the urgency that xW had expressed about this matter concerning S5, ever since the February meeting with the Pre-K teachers and school staff, and cattle-prodding me the whole time for action, for her now to suddenly drop the matter as a priority is more than perturbing. After all the time, energy, money, favor and tons of paperwork I invested in this on behalf of our S, she ultimately decided it wasn't as important as she had previously asserted and thus wasted all of my time.
Worst of all, she left the C with the impression that I was the one being overzealous and was overreacting to S5's behaviors. That I was the one who was uptight and trying to gain control of my S's behaviors. All of a sudden -- right out of the blue -- the C began lecturing me about being unable to accept the OM as S5's "other father". She was very nice about it, but it was totally incongruous for us to be discussing what to do about S5 and trying to figure out if the lack of commitment of xW to this effort meant we shouldn't persist -- and even to start discussing the cancellation of the remaining sessions -- and almost in the next breath for her then to begin directing her words directly to me about my own fear of the OM -- when at no time up to that point had I ever expressed anything, pro or con, about him. It was the first time he came up.
I felt like I had suddenly slipped into a conversation already in progress between the C and xW.
I was very accommodating and tried to honestly engage her in her line of questioning, but it took me off guard. I began to wonder to myself just what correspondence the C and XW might have already had outside of what I thought I knew. I also began to suspect that xW had once again decided to undermine me in front of a clinical professional (wouldn't be the first time by any stretch). To throw me under the bus for her own self-serving ends.
I have tentatively concluded that it doesn't matter at this point if my speculations about their correspondence might be true or not. Or if I am merely expressing paranoia. What I do know for certain is that xW is altogether insane, self-serving, treacherous and mercurial. And she will lie, cheat and say anything to get what she wants. And whether a deliberate, under-handed ploy or just oblivious to the bitter fruit she just happens to bear, she simply is untrustworthy and an unfit person to co-parent with.
It is what it is. This is simply the lay of the land. I could hope to place a measure of trust in xW to act with fairness, consistency and reason in co-parenting our children with me. But I must be resigned to the fact that this lack of character she continually exhibits is just part of her nature now.
(In retrospect, the thing is that despite the C's sudden focus on the OM, the real threat I may feel does not come from him, not really -- it comes entirely, if anywhere, from xW. OM is nothing. A paper tiger. He is not nor could ever be a threat to me at all -- except where xW would have him be. And even then only if I allow it.)
Hey, NC. Sorry to hear of this. Why do you think your X would be so gung-ho about C for your S5 and then seem to drop it all of a sudden? Strange.
I think it HIGHLY inappropriate that the C would be lecturing you about not accepting OM as your son's other father! He is not your son's father, and never will be. You should be civil to him, but I don't think anything more than that is needed. Ridiculous! I think taking a wait and see approach about C sounds good, and if your S5 does seem to need C, I would look for a different C than that one. What do you think of it all?
Karen,
In my previous post I was trying to be circumspect about my own viewpoint on this odd situation. Certainly there could be other possible explanations, which is why I began to wonder if I was merely being -- as I said above -- paranoid. There is the distinct possibility that is all it is, paranoia on my part. But at the time I did sort of get the uncomfortable suspicion that xW had gone behind my back in having private correspondence with this C, and had filled her head full of nonsense about me.
But as I concluded, when you sum it all up, whether the ex did do anything so diabolical is not all that important since I am unlikely to ever be able to prove such a wild assertion anyway. No, I have to focus on the facts -- what I do know for certain. For whatever reason, xW has suddenly gotten cold feet and become increasingly uncooperative in seeking psychological counseling for S5's classroom behaviors, behavior's pointed out to the both of his parents by his preschool teachers, the preschool staff and a state education department social services representative.
Why do I think, you ask, that my children's mother would suddenly scuttle the process, one initiated for their benefit and one she had originally expressed great enthusiasm for? I'd have to say it is because it suits her. I get the feeling that xW just wants, as usual and as always, to have control of the situation. I think she get's a power kick from frequently jerking me around, and that she has no qualms about using our children to do so, especially if she can make it look like I am the one who is causing harm or that she is doing so under the pretense of our S's "best interests".
Since the meeting in March I took what was said to us by the teachers, staff and counselors to heart. They saw a serious change in S5's behaviors since the beginning of February. And we all agreed, xW as well, to a course of action to gain whatever diagnosis and help our little boy needed, so that he could operate as best as possible in classroom and other social settings.
I took the lead for this and arranged for S5 to be evaluated by experts along a path suggested and agreed upon by the parties present during the March 18 meeting. xW took every opportunity to try to prod me along, as if I needed any incentive from her. I took her pressuring in stride, have long ago chalked this up to her annoyingly anal ways. But having finally reached the goal of getting past all the referrals, the correspondence, the approvals, the arrangements, the paperwork, etc. -- and had finally begun actually seeing the family psychologist -- she must have figured I was making too much progress in leading this effort. It was no longer all about her -- so she decided to take her ball and go home.
Or so it sure seems to me.
The funny thing is that this is not the first time she's done this. In seeking help for S9 years ago, I had taken a referral by my employer's insurer for seeking family guidance. Once we were in, xW decided to pull out.
Likewise, just months later, I managed to jump through a myriad of hoops to get S9 evaluated for Asperger's Syndrome (AS) and Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) and enrolled in the UNC Department of Psychology's well-respected TEEACH program for Autism Spectrum Disorders. (I even had myself screened for AS though their program, as a precaution.) Once in, xW decided not to take advantage of their services, suddenly citing that S9's condition was not grave enough after all. The most she would commit to was one mother's group hosted by the TEEACH program, but which had nothing for S9 himself.
And I won't go into the farce of the marital counseling she also bailed out on.
So I guess I shouldn't be surprised that xW is just too selfish to commit to anything serious, even if it might be for the benefit of her own child.
I am pretty much through with trying to do anything cooperatively with xW. She has proven over and over again that she is entirely untrustworthy. I truly envy those of you out there who feel they can trust their former spouse at least when the chips are down, and are able to rally together for the very sake of your children. But I am now finally convinced that my ex is not going to put her own pettiness and selfishness aside for anyone.
And, no, I have to conclude that the C is just wrong-headed about blended families. And I have to take issue with anyone who wants to suggest that the best interests of a child, especially my children, would be best served if I were to lay aside whatever fear of OM I might have (okay, to be considered) and I were to encourage them to accept another man as a second father in their lives -- not just a step-father, mind you, but another, co-equal father. (I was candid with her and told her that I would honestly struggle with that.)
Having thought about all this more since then, and thus given the sort of philosophy I hear in her words to me, I am no longer inclined to use the services of this particular C anymore anyway.
Hey NC..
It's wonderful to see another side of you emerging.
A reputable counselor is objective whose focus is on the client's wellbeing, in this case a five year old boy who exhibits troubling behavior. Whose parents are divorced. Divorced couples are known to have difficulty working together.
At this point, it's not about your wife's backpedaling or your perceived attitude toward her boyfriend.. as you well know, it's about your son. What is best for him.
It's like arguing over who has the flyswatter when the current is taking the canoe out to sea.
Sorry to hear you're in a tough position. But I'm so glad to read your new perspective on yourself.
*hugs*
Yes. I wouldn't use that C either. It sounds like she is going to continually tear you down. You're only recourse is to always stand tall. When you do that, everyone notices ... teachers, other parents, your kids.
No way should you ever accept OM as a co-equal. My mom went through a series of men after her divorce and they were nice enough. But I only had one dad.
This is a struggle we'll eventually see from another side. I think I'll probably remarry some day and it'll most likely be someone with kids. So at that point I'll be the OM and that'll be ... strange. You'll want to treat those kids as if they were your kids but without getting in between the relationship they have with their real father.
Life is just going to get more complicated.
You won't be the OM if you aren't breaking up a R. My kids and I have talked about this a lot...why this is different than what Daddy did. It is going to be difficult with other kids are involved. Just be another source of advice and not step into the parent shoes.
kat
Hi, Gyps,
Yes, you have it accurately -- it does not really matter about what either of we two parents may or may not think about the other -- what matters most is our children and what best for them.
So for the C to shift the focus onto me all of a sudden, when S5 was supposed to be the primary subject, was indeed inappropriate -- especially when she had not to that point even broached the question of whether my "fears" might be the overriding consideration affecting S5, let alone established it as fact. In fact it seemed to me that the very change in questioning betrayed an odd degree of assumption on her part. As if she were already operating from a foregone conclusion.
I suddenly felt like she was trying to say that the very fate of S5's emotional development hinged entirely on my willingness and ability to encourage my S's to allow OM to be their "other father".
It gave me the eery feeling that the C was suddenly channeling my xW!
Hi, CTH,
I tried to explain my own position to the C as well, that while I continue to have a hard time getting my mind around this notion that a child having multiple fathers or multiple mothers could be made to seem "normal" to a child, I do believe that peace is a desirable goal But I told her that a child has one mother and one father and that anything else just isn't normal -- and I seriously doubt anyone can prove it to be desirable or a benefit either.
And speaking for myself, I honestly do not think I could usurp or share the title and the role of another living father, even were I to marry his children's mother. And by the same token I cannot fathom that any woman with whom God decides to grace me in a new M should ever become a replacement for xW in the lives of my own children, not while xW is still alive. My S's already have a mother, just as they already have a father, and my marrying another woman should have no real impact on that.
But then I guess I follow the beat of a different drummer in that.
I suppose it does happen, but I don't think I could ever understand someone who, having gone through the sheer h*ll of being the victim of infidelity and the resulting destruction of their M and family at the hands of an OP, then commits the same crime later against another family, to become an OP themselves.
Must take a pretty frakked-up mindset to pull that one off and still be able to live with oneself.
If I ever find myself in the position of being the OM, then please shoot me dead!
As for being a step-parent, yes, it's difficult enough as it is. I happen to like most kids quite alot. But unless I am in a situation where I adopt them outright, I can at most love them like my own, but not as my own. KWIM?
Had to relate this little item.
S5 has recently gotten very enamored of penguins, puffins and like sea birds. But
especially penguins. He's been trying to watch every wildlife show possible about penguins, reading storybooks about them, has a toy or two, etc.
It's similar to S9's lifelong fixation on orca whales. And yes, neither mommy or daddy do
anything to discourage these rather harmless obsessions.
On a related note, I am always wary of what I see as my special obligation to help guide my S's education and interests, particularly in areas of "culture". One of these areas in in the art of Animation -- and as a serious aficionado of the art form, why
of course I must expose them to the classic Warner Brothers studio cartoons -- Bugs, Daffy, Wiley and the like. It's my
duty as their father, after all <chuckle>.
So the other night I downloaded via iTunes the classic Bugs Bunny cartoon, "8-Ball Hare" for their viewing pleasure. This particular animated short was a very memorable one that featured the little penguin character, knick-named "Playboy", which I was certain that S5 would love. And yes, S5 was
most definitely delighted by this adorable little penguin character.
We sat together and watched this 8 minute animated short -- and just rolled on the floor with laughter. Tears were coming from my eyes, and S5 and S9 were hysterical.
Since then we've all been repeating the lines from the film to each other, especially the scene with the (hungry) hobo character on the train:
"Penguins is practically chickens! And I hates to see chickens cry soooo much, that I has to put 'em out of their misery..."
This evening S9 suddenly mimicked the Humphrey Bogart character, "Pardon me, but could you help out a fellow American who's down on his luck?" He said this at the dinner table after asking for a refill of his drink cup -- he had us all in stitches.
I am tickled to see that my sense of humor (albeit weird as that might be) is rubbing off on these two boys. I love them so much!
I suppose it does happen, but I don't think I could ever understand someone who, having gone through the sheer h*ll of being the victim of infidelity and the resulting destruction of their M and family at the hands of an OP, then commits the same crime later against another family, to become an OP themselves.
Hmmmmm....guess I should introduce you to my X's new wife! LOL And she did it all with a smile on her face while telling everyone they were "just friends." Guess that makes it ok. Ha
Sadly my D12 hs figured it all out. And recently she said something to me about why she couldn't at least have a decent person for a step-mom....oh yeah, a decent person wouldn't have done what she did! Out of the mouths of babes! (I never said anything to her about the affair, but he was dumb enough to bring the kids around her before we separted, and my D has recalled some inappropriate things. So when she asked I responded as honestly as I could.)
Hey there my friend... Haven't been on here in ages, read through all your posts. and I just don't even know what to say.
It seems that she tries to get to these people before you do, to plant a seed and to give her no so good op of you and there it is. She is evil. She seriously has issues, to go from thinking her son needs therapy to "he's ok, lets see what happens" is just totally irresponsible as a parent.
Can you take him to a therapist of your choice? Can you do this without her even being a part of it? Because it seems she makes this all about her, and this is NOT helping Him.
Im not having such good thoughts about her right now *urrrgghh*
I know you can only do what you can do, I will be praying for you and hoping that you do find a therapist that can see through her BS.
((((hugs)) my friend, missed ya.
T
Hello, Irish! *HUGS* You've been missed too!
Although I have to agree with your assessment, part of me catches myself whenever I try to say that xW is evil, as I can't quite say it for some reason. Part of it must be because I had for so many years placed so much faith in her character, in her truthfulness and goodness. For so long I never consciously questioned her profession of Right versus Wrong -- I guess I even came to take it for granted that even where she happened to err, her intent was always to do good and that she would always try to make amends.
Obviously, I could not have been more wrong. In fact, I now see that she has always played these "roles" with people, to make herself into something she really knows he is not. She wants everyone to go along with the lie and pretend she is this sweet, altruistic person who puts everyone's needs ahead of her own, even to the point of denying herself. She will take measures to cultivate this facade before family, friends, colleagues, co-workers, teachers, neighbors, church members, etc. -- when she is nothing like.
And yet I still cannot bring myself to call her "evil". Lost, certainly. And her actions and behaviors and values, those are most definitely cursed by evil. I see her as making mistakes, yes, and practicing horrible judgement -- the point of willful stupidity.
In that sense I actually pity her. xW would like to pretend that she is more spiritually evolved and is thus on solid moral footing than she is, but her claim to faith has proven to be utterly hollow, sadly.
I will be watching S5 (and S9) -- observing each of my S's to see if C might help either or both
Had great weekend! Fun-filled. And had my two S's.
I was on call with work this week, which stinks. It has meant we (me and my S's) couldn't run off out of town for the three-day weekend. WOuld love to ahve gone to the beach, but that was out.
Still we made do and had fun anyway. On Saturday we went to a a BBQ cookout with friends -- lots of children running about. We all had a very good time. Sunday we went to church and then we put together a new aquarium, as we have been outgrowing the old one.
Today, the holiday itself, we went to a matinee (saw "The Last Airbender") and rode bikes. Or, rather, it was mostly the boys riding, as I ended up trying to help S5 learn his balance so that eventually he will not need his training wheels. S5 is getting much better -- it won't be log now.
Can't believe it's over already. I need a real vacation now, and have been for a long while.
nc,
How did they like the movie, I didn't know how well S4 would like it, he can't sit still very long.
Great to hear you had a good weekend!! I wanted to do something special with them today, but ended up school shopping.
Have a great week... and try and GET a vacation!!
Hi, Irish,
The movie? It was okay. The boys seemed to enjoy it. I had heard that despite all its potential it was very poorly done, mis-casted, and ends in the middle of the story, setting you up for a sequel. Most agree that one would be better served by watching the original TV series instead.
So I was prepared to wait until it came out on DVD or VOD, but we caught a cheap matinee and S9 was adamant that he just had to see this. I warned S9 that he shouldn't get his hopes up. I am glad we didn't pay full fare to see it, but it turned out not quite so bad as I had feared.
I would rent it when it comes out on DVD.
Yup, I had a feeling..I was not to keen on it myself, but actually S4 was interested in seeing it, but he has forgotten about it now. Will wait till it comes out on DVD.
Im looking for to Harry Potter coming out in November, I can't wait. I am on the 2nd to last book, I won't read the last one til I see the movie. Book is definately better though.
Have a great day and take care!
My S's are with the ex this weekend. Today was the big kickoff event for scouting, a family picnic, and so I asked xW if it would be all right if I took S9. She hemmed and hawed until yesterday before she gave an answer. But she wanted me to drive all the way out to their double-wide out in the sticks, OM's home, an hour one way, to pick him up. But she had plans to visit OM's mother this afternoon, and since where the picnic is would be on their way, she said she would pick S9 up later after the event was over. Well, at the last minute, xW reneged and decided to not pick S9 up and she expected me to drive all the way back out there again. Yet again xW couldn't live up to her own agreements.
After spending four needless hours on the road -- and all because she just has to have her squalid trailer out in the dirt 60 miles away -- I am none too happy.
...But I am ranting here... That's all. I'm getting over it...
However... I am not going to allow this to become some precedence, which I am dead certain she wants this to be -- I understand that this was on her custody time and I was trying to be accommodating for that reason, but this mileage she has placed between me and my S's is her choice and should not be a burden I have to bear. Not for her. I can compromise to a point and no more.
Next time xW pulls this I will simply take S9 home with me.
Good decision. How did the scouting event go?
Your sitch makes me wonder about mine down the road. Eventually STBXW will sell the house or lose it. Then I really wonder where she'll end up. She's spending all of her free time in towns 30 minutes north of here. I could see her moving there because she'd be far away from any of my friends and it'd make it impossible for me to see them every day after school. Luckily, in mediation she agreed if that happened I'd pick up an extra night every other week.
The scouting event was great! Huge turnout, lots of fun, plenty of food. S9 somehow got a splinter in his left foot somehow (still trying to figure out how he did that -- must have gotten wood chips inside his shoe?) but it all went well for me up until the close of the event, when the ex was supposed to show up, but calls me on my cell phone instead.
The move away thing has been a Sword of Damocles hanging over my head since the beginning of this madness. I knew she would do it eventually. And she feels self-justified to do so because she automatically thinks that as the mother she has every right to call all the shots regarding our S's. I have been trying to divest her of that false notion ever since, but she can't be bothered to think beyond her own selfishness. I had been persuaded by my atty to drop a clause in our consent order that would inhibit move aways (by placing all of the burden for transportation to comply with the custody schedule on the back of the offending parent) so as to get xW to sign something, but I regret it now.
The parenting coordinator has never taken serious xW's moves to place roadblocks to practical execution of our consent order, so he's been of no help as xW moves right along with her plans to marginalize me in our S's lives. She is still talking up S9 changing to school systems out that way next year. S5 would be a part of that move too. And yet the PC still acts like she would never do anything like that. He can bury his head in the sand but I won't.
I suggest you talk to your L about a move away clause in your own agreement and whether that might be workable. L's might be tempted to only use such language as bargaining chips, but hindsight tells me that you need to not settle for anything less than what you or your children can still live with.
I believe that if we are to truly practice loving firmness/strength we need to bring our "A" game.
I am at a strange point in my life this week. I don't know what's about to happen, but I sense a turning point. It's more internal than anything. I am unsure whether it is the beginning of a new "cycle" or that this is something different just starting to evolve within me.
So many things I have been reading, listening to, studying have all touched on a deep course I seem to have subconsciously known was running through my life these last three years. I have been working through the anger and loneliness following the final letting go of my former spouse.
I have been struggling trying to remain a good parent to my S's and a positive influence on their lives while in the face of continual and unrelenting poisoning of their minds by their mother and members of her family. I am witness to actions to alienate me from my S's and seeing the resulting turmoil on their innocent psyches. And I have had to resign myself that the legal system, the parenting coordinator, family counselors, etc. are all either (a) powerless, (b) uncaring, (c) contributors or (d) all of the above to the great evils that arise from D and the ripping apart of families.
And my reaction had been mute anger seething within my soul, with no recourse or outlet for its relief. I am intelligent enough to have seen all along how this is my chief-most problem and how it only contributes to xW's plans. I am intelligent enough to recognize that I have been my own worst enemy, but lacking the wisdom to figure out how to overcome this same. I have often felt utterly powerless to be able to help myself or my S's through these times. And a sense of hopelessness poisons my thoughts.
Fortunately time -- much time -- has indeed brought healing, as does much prayer and meditation. And reading the Word. Communication with God has been a great comfort, has eased my mind. Without being able to tend to my soul and the spiritual side of who I am, I would have been lost.
But I see now that much of the benefit from our Lord during these last few years has been to help keep me afloat through the storms, not to swim a marathon but to tread water as I heal and grow stronger. To bide my time and rest in Him until such time as He sets the next course.
The injuries are still deep and I expect to continue to struggle with the obstacles thrown in my path. But I feel something new in the wind, and I cannot put my finger on what.
I think it may be that I am finally beginning to truly let go and let God. I did begin this three years ago, but I now see it was too soon, I wasn't ready yet. I am only now seeing that I am reaching the point where the Holy Spirit will be able to not only enter me and heal me, but be able to move me. I feel God speaking to me in ways that let me know I am now to begin to let go of those last vestiges of my own will, parts that I thought I had already let go, and to give those over to God, truly and fully. It's scary, downrigth terrifying to me, someone who has been in command of my own destiny for much of my life, always knowing what my path would be and where I (thought) I wanted to go.
I learned to let go of myself and hitch my wagon to a common purpose when I got M'ed. I loved my W, and I was both happy and willing to bend my paths so that I could walk parallel with hers. But somewhere along the way I realized she had never done the same. That's where I got lost, and I got off my own life's path to satisfy her contradictory definitions of home, family, M, and obligation.
But am reaching a point now where I can see letting every last vestige go of myself and giving that over to God, to serve His will and not my own, is the only true path to joy and fulfillment. It is very scary, yes, or would have been up until now. I don't fear it anymore.
See, it is one thing to know something in your mind, to understand it, to feel it in your heart even. But it is another thing entirely to make it a part of you and to feel it in your soul. Only then does it become truly real for oneself.
I think I am arriving there at last. Another step along the path. I now find myself in patient anticipation of what lies just around this next corner, be it good or bad.
I totally understand, when I reached a new 'step' of understanding there was this new view of life, of my life, and the knwoledge that no matter what, God was/is in control, take care NC____))))
I am at a strange point in my life this week. I don't know what's about to happen, but I sense a turning point. It's more internal than anything. I am unsure whether it is the beginning of a new "cycle" or that this is something different just starting to evolve within me.
NC, I felt that way once but it turned out to be gas.
In all seriousness, what a wonderful post! Sometimes God works suddenly but I think that's a lot rarer than we think, usually He works in time. As you said, you were not ready three years ago when you started this journey, now may be that time. I too can't imagine what I would have done without faith and a church family over the past three years. I am thankful despite the loss and pain that lives on that I have a God to walk through it with. Once again, great post and thanks for sharing it.
I learned to let go of myself and hitch my wagon to a common purpose when I got M'ed. I loved my W, and I was both happy and willing to bend my paths so that I could walk parallel with hers. But somewhere along the way I realized she had never done the same. That's where I got lost, and I got off my own life's path to satisfy her contradictory definitions of home, family, M, and obligation.
I could have written this abou t my life letter for letter. I think a lot of us could. It's a hard lesson to learn.
You sound a lot, lot better. Perhaps the post itself was the turning point.
I too thought I was in control of my life and have really struggled with how really little control I do have. It's so hard to just trust that everything is going to be OK.
I hope this is a real new beginning for you.
NC, I hope so too! Faith and time do heal...We've all come a long way I think from when we started here....
Thanks, Cat, Wii, CTH, Karen, all,
It has been a while since my last update. And quite a lot of events have happened since. I just got back from ten days vacation and now trying to catch up on things back at work. I had a good long visit with family and friends. Had lots of conversations although not as many as I had originally anticipated, as it turned out, but interesting all the same. I learned quite a bit more about my brother K's sitch, and observed for myself how people's behaviors and mannerisms communicate more than they let on. I can elaborate a little of that in subsequent posts, but it is a lot more than I can convey here in any great detail.
Most importantly, I spent a lot of good quality time with my S's all the week long. And while I am quite road weary now and I am missing my kids (xW picked them up Sunday afternoon after the family reunion ended -- that's a story in and of itself!), I am doing pretty well all the same.
Incidentally, the "something around the corner" I mentioned to be sensing is still there, although I do note that this is mostly another "cycle" to which I am gyrating to -- still, I feel the road smoothing out much more appreciably this time. The roller coaster is a far cry from what it has been in the past.
Details a little later.
glad to hear that friend)))