Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: Gardener Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/02/10 02:12 AM
Hi all,

Nothing to say, just yet.

Just got the keys, so I thought I'd drop by and check the space out.
I will be moving in bit by bit between now and D-Day, January 27th.
Looking forward to meeting my new neighbors.
Though, like some of you, I'll be visiting the old neighborhood from time to time, too.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/02/10 04:19 AM
Welcome to the neighborhood, Gardener.

Sorry to see you heading over here, but this is a friendly place, and our outlook is always up.

I moved in a few weeks ago myself, and just starting to get unpacked as well.

There are some familiar neighbors, and some that I am just meeting over here. You'll fit right in with your positive outlook, and well balanced and friendly communication

I missed the chance when I moved in myself, but I do believe that you'll need to open up the bar in your new place, and offer up a round.

Cheers!
Posted By: goldeylox Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/02/10 06:45 AM
Ummm...I'll have my usual, a Lemon Drop of course.
Please come visit my new thread and I'll kindly pour something for you.
Happy New Year, G-Man.
Goldey, the WAW who tried real hard.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/02/10 08:28 AM
iwitw,
Thanks for the welcome.
Talk to you soon.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/02/10 08:30 AM
Goldey,
One Lemon Drop coming up!
Be right over.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/02/10 08:34 AM
Goldey,
What's your thread?
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/02/10 01:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Hi all,

Nothing to say, just yet.

Just got the keys, so I thought I'd drop by and check the space out.
I will be moving in bit by bit between now and D-Day, January 27th.
Looking forward to meeting my new neighbors.
Though, like some of you, I'll be visiting the old neighborhood from time to time, too.


Pointing upward.. You are THIS guy. Be him. Be the charming, witty open fella you are. Confident and caring.

You're worth it.

*hugs*
Posted By: goldeylox Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/02/10 03:22 PM
Hey G-Man...(oh hi Gypsy, fancy seeing you here)
I started a new thread yesterday in We're Separated, or Kerry installed a link at the end of my old one yesterday.
I'm off to breakfast. Can I get anything for you? Peace.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/03/10 10:21 PM
I posted this over at Newcomers earlier, but I think it really belongs in my new home.

Let's see...Think I'll hang it up right here where I'll be sure to always see it.
There.
Perfect!

Beginning to feel like home already laugh

Originally Posted By: Gardener
I'm with ya, G-Woman,

I love those kids. Period. With all my heart. I am not taking it personally.

This year I fight back with all my strength against negativity, victimhood and feeling sorry for myself. I tend toward that automatically in hard times. What - WHAT - has it ever gotten me? Nothing. Just self-increased pain.

This year everything - everything - will be viewed in a positive, I-am-blessed-in-countless-ways spirit of abundance. It will take time to buck a lifetime of habit, But I will get there. Have already consciously started to make the effort to be aware of the automatic and incessant pervasiveness of this negativity in my mind during rough patches, answering it immediately with its diametrically-opposed opposite in thoughts. I started Friday 1/01/10 (okay, except for that painful email from Step-D. But I - and you guys - got me past that fast).

And I'm going all-out and balls-out on this.

Even little things that would make me funky and p!ssy, I look at them and make it a point to laugh - out loud; it helps -at how pettily ludicrous they are. All of them. They amount to little more than tiny bits and moments of life wasted or spent wrongheadedly. It's starting to work. Slowly, but it's started. I've started. I even put a rubber band on my wrist for the old aversion therapy ouch-snapping!

And all of this as the result of this year of pain. Most of it very real, but much of it self-inflicted, wallowed in, and hence, magnified needlessly

And I have all of you to thank for much of this: your inspiration, strength, courage, decency, honesty, caring, sharing, courage, eye-opening, painful inner-most sharing. insights and 2x4's.

I interrupted this post for a while when S,33 just called from Colorado. We talked for an hour and a half. He's known of my struggles for reconciliation, becoming the best me I can - for me, and detachment. I told him last month I've reached acceptance. He asked me just now, "where are you today?" Without blinking or thinking,it just came out: "Billy, I'm happy."

I may seem to be waxing philosophic, here, but I am serious and determined.
My inner self-talk and outward-looking are getting a serious makeover this year.

Life is good. Even when it sucks.

_____________________
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/03/10 11:44 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
I posted this over at Newcomers earlier, but I think it really belongs in my new home.

Let's see...Think I'll hang it up right here where I'll be sure to always see it.
There.
Perfect!

Beginning to feel like home already laugh

Originally Posted By: Gardener
I'm with ya, G-Woman,

I love those kids. Period. With all my heart. I am not taking it personally.

This year I fight back with all my strength against negativity, victimhood and feeling sorry for myself. I tend toward that automatically in hard times. What - WHAT - has it ever gotten me? Nothing. Just self-increased pain.

This year everything - everything - will be viewed in a positive, I-am-blessed-in-countless-ways spirit of abundance. It will take time to buck a lifetime of habit, But I will get there. Have already consciously started to make the effort to be aware of the automatic and incessant pervasiveness of this negativity in my mind during rough patches, answering it immediately with its diametrically-opposed opposite in thoughts. I started Friday 1/01/10 (okay, except for that painful email from Step-D. But I - and you guys - got me past that fast).

And I'm going all-out and balls-out on this.

Even little things that would make me funky and p!ssy, I look at them and make it a point to laugh - out loud; it helps -at how pettily ludicrous they are. All of them. They amount to little more than tiny bits and moments of life wasted or spent wrongheadedly. It's starting to work. Slowly, but it's started. I've started. I even put a rubber band on my wrist for the old aversion therapy ouch-snapping!

And all of this as the result of this year of pain. Most of it very real, but much of it self-inflicted, wallowed in, and hence, magnified needlessly

And I have all of you to thank for much of this: your inspiration, strength, courage, decency, honesty, caring, sharing, courage, eye-opening, painful inner-most sharing. insights and 2x4's.

I interrupted this post for a while when S,33 just called from Colorado. We talked for an hour and a half. He's known of my struggles for reconciliation, becoming the best me I can - for me, and detachment. I told him last month I've reached acceptance. He asked me just now, "where are you today?" Without blinking or thinking,it just came out: "Billy, I'm happy."

I may seem to be waxing philosophic, here, but I am serious and determined.
My inner self-talk and outward-looking are getting a serious makeover this year.

Life is good. Even when it sucks.

_____________________


Hi Gardener.

Sorry you're here, but since your situation is what it is...I'm glad you're here. I can relate to what you're saying in the highlighted post above. I wish it hadn't taken her leaving for me to become a better person...but it did, and I am. I hope we all can be supportive and helpful to one another here.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/04/10 09:10 PM
Today is a great day:

I have this wonderful earth.
I have life, breath, intelligence, compassion, wit and love.
I have my Faith.
I have opportunity.
I have great, functional, loving relationships with my adult sons.
I have come one day closer to having the same again with StepD and StepS.
I have made positive differences in the lives of two people yesterday.
I have a handful of good, nurturing, long-standing friendships.
I have two new recent friends.
I have dozens of anonymous, but truer-than-true new friends on these boards.
I have three wonderful grandchildren.
I have my scars and they are all badges of the pride of surviving, enduring, and thriving.
I have a great brother.
I have two wonderful nephews.
I had many years with a loving companion, friend, lover, partner, wife, playmate who was once one of the finest people I ever knew.
I. Have. Abundance.

I am alone but not lonely.
I am broke but not in Spirit.
I am independent.
I am interdependent.
I am free.
I am self-aware.
I am sheltered, warm, dry, fed, and clothed.
I am hopeful.
I am evolving.
I am healing.
I am healing myself.
I am improving.

I am ready!
Posted By: dolphin_05 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/04/10 09:36 PM
So powerful, so rich, such beautiful, insightful words and an expression of the person that you are Gardener.

Yay!!! This is like a victory song.

Cas
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/04/10 10:04 PM
Today is a great day (part 2)

I have have had this framed and hanging in my bedroom for months. It's a song by Mary Chapin Carpenter who, all who know me will know is my favorite singer-songwriter. I haven't looked up and read it in a while.
I did today. And I immediately thought, "I made it. I'm there!" Or, more accurately, "I made it to the beginning of there."

"The door is ajar and every window is open." Now it's up to me.

www.rhapsody.com/mary-chapin-carpenter/the-calling

Click on track 13's title, "Bright Morning Star", then click the play arrow to the left of it. I believe they only let you play the entire song free one time.


Bright Morning Star
by Mary Chapin Carpenter

Last night I dreamed my head was in a fever
Last night I dreamed it never was so far
To reach a shore of safety and redemption
And to gaze upon a bright morning star

I dreamed I was by friends all but abandoned
I dreamed I was alone but for my scars
And blinded by the tears that fell like water
No more to see my bright morning star

The streets of dreams never looked this lonely
The streets of dreams never felt this hard
I heard my voice barely of a whisper
As the clouds denied a bright morning star

Sometimes this life is no more than a moment
And sometimes the light is lost unto the dark
But courage hears the sound of dawn approaching
And each our own bright morning star

I woke to find every window open
I woke to find the heavy door ajar
And I walked outside and stood upon the hilltop
And gazed once more on a bright morning star

I walked outside and every bird was singing
As I found again my bright morning star
Posted By: Serenity13 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/05/10 02:15 AM
Hey - Don't I know you? cool

My new thread over here - A New Beginning

Not much there...Just a hello and my post from earlier today...

I am going to check out your thread over here now. smile

(((Hugs)))
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/05/10 03:56 AM
Originally Posted By: Cas05
So powerful, so rich, such beautiful, insightful words and an expression of the person that you are Gardener.

Yay!!! This is like a victory song.Cas
Thanks, Cas. Like the Eagles said:

"I am already gone
And I'm feeling strong
I will sing this victory song
'Cause I'm already gone"

And someone is "gonna have to eat yer lunch all by yourself!" wink
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/07/10 03:57 AM
Quick journal,

Real good two days, yesterday and today. No particular reasons: Just good.

Rec'd email from STBXW tonight. Get this for the Subject line: G, to answer your question of December 14. (!)

Yeah, I'm gonna open that one. Right.
Although I may open it Friday morning before my meeting with L.
Posted By: Serenity13 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/07/10 04:06 AM
(((Gardener))))

You go my friend - All in your time now - All about YOU smile
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/07/10 04:12 AM
Hey G. Looks like I'm moving in down the road from you here. Will be following your sitch.
Posted By: Serenity13 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/09/10 04:51 AM
(((Gardener)))

Been 2 days - Just checking in to see how you are doing...

I hope all is well and you are out having the time of your life.

smile smile smile
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/10/10 12:56 AM
Doin' good, thanks, Seren.
Busy coupla days with paperwork, mediator (I may drop that whole B.S. process!) and with Lawyer.

And with a "date" here at home last night. Dinner and a video ( and conversation !) with a delightful woman my loving nephew introduced me to.
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/10/10 04:37 PM
I'm so glad you had a good time on your "date"! Are you gonna plan another one with her?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/11/10 02:14 AM
Bunny, laugh
Originally Posted By: SpyBunny
I'm so glad you had a good time on your "date"! Are you gonna plan another one with her?
As they say on those info-mercials, 'But Wait! There's More!!", so here goes:

But Wait! There's more!! Gardener crashes and burns on first date in 18 years!! shocked

After a thoroughly delightful two weeks of fun, lots-in-common emailing, she:
A) accepts my invitation to go to a concert with me at the end of this month.
B) suggests meeting at my place for dinner and a movie ("Double feature! Let's watch two!"). I modified it to one movie: "more time to relax and talk." "Good idea," says she.

I offer to pick her up (she lives about 45 minutes away). She declines, says that's gentlemanly of me but unnecessary as she's proud of her "schlepability" and will MapQuest her way on over. Pizza? Sure. What kind? You got it!

She arrives, I give her the grand tour, we talk and talk and talk. Fun time. Pizza. Then dessert as movie starts. We chat, talk about and during the movie for I don't know how long. And I mean I really don't know for how long because the next thing that happens is...Gardener wakes up during the ending credits!!

I embarrassingly, but honestly explain to her that in order two squeeze in meeting with lawyer (a.m.), meeting with mediator (p.m.), do my job and be home in time for date, I went to work at 5:00 am that day. L & M paperwork B.S. took me until about 3:30 a.m. to finish up, so, all I could do at that point was call it an all-nighter, shower, dress and go to work at 5:00, sleepless. (Not sure if I went into all that detail right then, but I did in an email to her Saturday morning). No problem says she. She initiates good-night hug and leaves (it was late and her kids were home).

Next morning, I email more details and apology, she replies "No problem: I never would have even attempted socializing on no sleep. You're a brave man!"

This morning (Sunday) I email that I'm going to an exhibit in fairly near-by city convention center, would you like to join me? I'll drive, stay awake, and talk to make amends. No reply.

Tonight, I receive email: "I'm sorry, Gardener, this isn't going to work out for me. Thank you for the great e-mail conversations and for dinner. I wish you all the best."

I email back a bit later, "I'm sorry, too. I had a thoroughly delightful time chatting with you these past two weeks and meeting you on Friday. You are a charming person and your children are blessed with you as their mom.
Peace,
Gardener"

Kaboom. Hey, I *have to assume* she was appalled, despite the valid explanation, to be sitting in a strange house for two hours watching a movie alone next to a sleeping Gardener. I could appreciate that.
*But, hey, a "Sorry, but" email would have been nicer had it *included an explanation*.

Oh, well. I wasn't looking, just living my life and seeing who shows up (my nephew who works with her cyber-introduced us). She showed up. It was enjoyable. Not going to take it personally. Actually, what is there to take personally, anyway?

Anyway, I'm going to the concert at the end of the month, now, with nephew, as a "thank you".

And I christened my new home here Soaring Solo? Sheesh!

Womanly opinions and assessments of the above are solicited and will be much appreciated by this out-of-practice man! smile
Posted By: Serenity13 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/11/10 02:32 AM
(((Gardener)))

I had to LOL when I got to the part of you sleeping...
As a woman, I find it sweet that despite the circumstances, you put your best foot forward and went ahead with the date...
It is her loss my friend - Don't ever forget that. smile
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/11/10 03:30 AM
Soaring or snoring? smile
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/11/10 03:32 AM
I will have to keep this in mind when I'm back out there again.
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/11/10 03:33 AM
Her loss... I agree with Serenity- you still sounded absolutely charming!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/11/10 03:40 AM
Originally Posted By: SpyBunny
Soaring or snoring? smile
And SpyBunny squeaks in with a last-minute Belly-Laugh Of The Day Award!!
Posted By: C-Bart Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/11/10 04:13 AM
Thanks for the story Gardener. Needed a laugh.
Posted By: motherof3 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/11/10 05:21 AM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

G - Had to check what all the hoopla was about.

Made me smile.

I will add that to my 'what not to do on a first date' list.

And I agree with the others. Her loss.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/11/10 06:29 AM
mo3,
Originally Posted By: motherof3
And I agree with the others. Her loss.
Thanks. Your comment reminds me of a favorite, very old Doonesbury strip:

1st Panel: The Rev. Scott Sloane (campus chaplain) is sitting at a cafe table with another main character, Joan, Jr. (?), whom he's been dating (and is the first woman he's ever dated.)

Joan: "Scott, we need to talk." Scott's thought bubble: ("Uh-oh")

2nd Panel: Joan: "I've been doing some serious thinking about our relationship..." Scott's thought bubble: ("Here it comes")

Third panel: Joan: "And I just think we're not growing and should probably move on..."

Scott's frantic thought bubble: (Don't let her get away! Say something! Say anything! C'mon Scott. Think, man, think!

Last Panel: Joan has left.
Scott: Alone at the table (after desperately thinking for a response): "Your loss, toots!!"

Anyway, even without the visual, I always thought it was a hoot.
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/11/10 12:11 PM
Hey G'Man..

A woman's perspective?

Less is more.

Offering to pick her up is completely unnecessary and probably sets off a tiny red flag. Women like their own wheels.

Effusive apologies work against you. As charming as your note was it keeps the mistake highlighted.

Going into a home is very personal. Keep the surroundings impersonal.. movie theater, coffee shop, light and easy. No one feels trapped.

It's not her loss, it's not your loss. It's a learning experience. Find what works. Don't do it all. And realize your limits. Postponing a get together is okay. Just be upfront about it. Simple statement.

Less is more.

Just be you. No fancy trimmings needed.

*hugs*

Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/11/10 04:18 PM
Hey Gardener.

Something like that is really nothing more than a scratch in the scheme of things. If you're in a game and you fall and scratch your knee, you wipe it off and clean it up...and get back in the game! You don't even think about it anymore.

Same thing.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/11/10 04:18 PM
Thank you, Gyps,
In retrospect it was a bad first venue: no escape for either.
I would have never even considered an offer to pick a date/woman/friend up a red flag. Who knew? Now I know.
I'm working on effusive.
Never even considered postponing: always put myself last.
I'm working on that, too.

The "her loss" stuff was kind words I appreciated hearing from DB friends. My Doonesbury thing just a laugh.
No loss. I had fun and a good (GALing) time with her.
And learned.
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/11/10 05:41 PM
Hey G'Man..

It reminded me of when you offered to pick me up to go to your son's show (a comparable amount of time going way out of your way). I felt uncomfortable. I can only describe feeling it as 'too much'. Even though I'd met you. Even though you're a nice guy. I wouldn't expect that from a long time friend unless it was really really important. A husband.. I'd meet him there.

You are delightfully who you are, gallant, sweeping gestures without a second thought. Allow yourself space. Stay away from the house for the first three to seven dates. Meet halfway or in the vicinity of the date's domicile/work place. Even if it's their idea to go to your home. Well.. you know what I mean.

Getting back into the game is about where you are, what your boundaries are.

Advice is free.. and consider the source... the non dating, plate full muchacha.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/12/10 05:49 AM
Antlers,
Without a doubt. I agree. Thanks.
Hey, I wasn't even looking (and won't be for a while). She showed up. She was nice. The conversations were great fun. Something to look forward too every day for a couple of weeks.
I lucked out. i was on contentedly sitting on the bench and my nephew put me in the game. Only an inning or two, but hey, I got out there and it felt good.
Wish her all the best.
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/13/10 07:15 PM
Since we're on the subject...


Don't be too timid and squeamish about your actions. All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better. - Emerson


smile
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/16/10 12:09 AM
Antlers
Originally Posted By: antlers
Since we're on the subject...
Don't be too timid and squeamish about your actions. All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better. - Emerson
smile
Another good one. Never read that one. Thanks.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/16/10 12:40 AM
So this is where G'man hangs out now.

G'man I got a nice bottle of Bushmills and Exile on Main Street.

I think I might just drop by.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/16/10 01:11 AM
Anytime, cutter.
Where are you now, again?
Posted By: goldeylox Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/16/10 04:16 PM
G'Man,
We have a lot in common. Finding healthy boundaries, especially with the opposite gender is a mystery to me.
Figuring out how to communicate without coming on too strong (or too stalker-like) is an area I'm working on.
What I want to tell people is that I have a need.
Maybe I'm lonely, and that means I need to be with people. Healthy people. Strong people. Sometimes that's in the alt, or here on DB, or sometimes it's on the phone. Today, it's in real life.
If I'm lonely, and need to be with people, I will call a friend and ask, "What are you doing this weekend?" And then listen to the answer. If they have plans, they will say so. If they are available, they will say, "What did you have in mind?"
Keep it simple, G'Man. Peace.
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/17/10 12:46 AM
How are things going Gardener?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/17/10 10:49 PM
goldey,
Originally Posted By: goldeylox
Keep it simple, G'Man. Peace.
Keep it simple, indeed. Peace to you, too.

Thanks,
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/17/10 10:52 PM
Originally Posted By: SpyBunny
How are things going Gardener?
Good. You?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/18/10 01:13 AM
Long journaling/update (first long one in a while though),

Dammit. Just dammit.
Spoke to stbxw on the phone just now. She had left me a voicemail this morning asking why I hadn't responded to her email, why mediator hasn't heard from me in weeks, what's going on, rescheduled date for D is fast-approaching, etc.
So I sit down and reply to her email:
-Yes, it's taken me eight days to respond to your email, which was a reply to my email that took you 26 days to respond to. I'm not delaying; I've been busy. I want this over asap, too.
-Listed a couple of things in the agreement that I simply will not abide nor agree to. Period.
-Responded to her mentioning in her email that I agreed in May to move out of the house/let her move back in...and then changed my mind!! (which she never misses a chance to bring up even though I've never mentioned the 27 agreements she's reversed herself on post-separation). Anyway, I responded to that with:

"As far as me reversing my position - once - I want you to know that I sincerely consider both of the following equally understandable and valid:

On (Bomb Date), 2008 you informed me of your decision to get an apartment.
I initially offered, "No, you stay; I'll go,"
After you declined, over the following weeks I made an well-reasoned, considered and deeply personal decision to stay in my home.
One day in (MC)'s office you asked me to re-consider as you wanted to 'get out of that moldy basement apartment.'
Based on that plea, I made an emotional and hasty reversal of my position and communicated it to you - equally emotionally - in the email you've quoted.
When the emotion of that moment and of that plea subsided, I returned to my original, valid position.

On (Bomb Date), 2008 you informed me of your decision to get an apartment. You had made a well-reasoned, considered, and deeply personal decision to leave our marriage and the house.
Shortly after that, outside the coffee shop, following my depression diagnosis by both (family physician and MC), you made an emotional and hasty reversal of your position and communicated it to me equally emotionally.
When the emotion of that moment subsided after talking with (IC) the following day, you returned to your original, valid position.

Fine.

Let's 'assume good will and intent,' as (MC) suggested, respect each other's decisions, and give each other the benefit of the doubt. And let it drop.

That being said, I'm not going to discuss personal matters anymore as they are, after all, moot at this point or matters from our past as they are irrelevant at this point. Matters from (move out date) through present are really all that are relevant now and I, too, want to come to final terms on those in time for (Court Date)"


Four hours later she calls. After a couple of surprising pleasantries absent her now-standard cold-to-disdainful tone, she starts to cry: She's sorry for this. For this strife. For all of this. For her part in turning it into strife. She never wanted this. She sits there sometimes and wonder how it came to this, etc. I calm her down, try to soothe (I know, I know), tell her I have also sat here and wondered how it all - all - came to this.

We talked calmly about mediation but mostly benign things (selling the house, bills, debt, how's the cat, her new neighbors, etc.) for about fifteen minutes.

And it was kinda nice. Or nostalgic. Dammit. I mean as soon as I ended the conversation "Well, you have a good night, now," and hung up, all I wanted to do was call her back. And talk to her some more. Because it was almost her. For the first time in 8 or 9 months, she sounded like her. The One I remember. The one I've just about finished (I think) grieving.
Dammit.
Damn her.

Posted By: Serenity13 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/18/10 02:33 AM
(((Gardener)))

I have avoided commenting on any post lately because I feel I don't have anything to offer - I feel emotionally spent and I can't figure out how to get back to myself again...

That being said, you are my friend and you asked me to come here and comment -

She cries & she is sorry - Do you in your heart believe her? Is she sorry enough to actually take the time to work on the marriage? 8 or 9 months have past - Has to much time passed that you guys can't get back what you had?

Sweetie - You will never fully be finished grieving her/your marriage...There will always be a piece of you that wonders - What could have been, what went wrong, what should have been etc...

You have been at this for quite some time - Look within to see what it is you really truly want...

Last time I checked, you didn't want a divorce and maybe just maybe the door is opening a sliver within her as well.

The one thing that stands out about your whole post -
Originally Posted By: Gardener
She never wanted this

What is "this"? The divorce? The unhappiness? The changes? The anger?

If she never wanted it, why did she set out to destroy all the good you guys had built together?

If it was a mistake in her eyes, then you need to possibly re-examine what you want as well.

I of course know why you responded the way you did, but truthfully - What do you want?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/18/10 04:13 AM
Serenity,
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
Sweetie - You will never fully be finished grieving her/your marriage...There will always be a piece of you that wonders - What could have been, what went wrong, what should have been etc...
I understand your point but, Lord, I hope you're wrong.
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
The one thing that stands out about your whole post -
Originally Posted By: Gardener
She never wanted this

What is "this"? The divorce? The unhappiness? The changes? The anger?
Actually, Seren, I took the "it," "this strife," to be her even-more-disdainful, entrenched, demanding attitude throughout the Mediation which, among other things, sent us both scrambling for - and to - lawyers which Mediation, by definition practically precludes. I didn't think the "it" was the sitch/divorce itself and even now that you've got me reviewing it in my mind, I still don't think so. But who knows? If she did mean something else, I'd imagine that would become apparent relatively shortly.
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
I of course know why you responded the way you did, but truthfully - What do you want?
I wish in a way that I hadn't responded at all and just listened and not engaged. I wish I had DB'ed it a bit. I wish I had remembered that I was speaking to someone who has accused me of a couple of vile untrue things, who made a thinly veiled threat re: "how much you value your relationship with StepS & StepD," in Mediator's office when I made a demand, shortly after which they both dropped me like a stone.

What do I want? Like all of us here, turning back the clock would be the ideal.

Short of that, I'm ready to be D'ed and, frankly, done with who she is now.
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
I have avoided commenting on any post lately because I feel I don't have anything to offer - I feel emotionally spent and I can't figure out how to get back to myself again...
I know. I understand. But don't go away from here. Stay away from commenting on others' sitches, sure, but stay active - talking - on your own thread. That's when we all need and help each other the most.
Thanks, (((Serenity))).
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/18/10 05:42 AM
And it was kinda nice. Or nostalgic. Dammit. I mean as soon as I ended the conversation "Well, you have a good night, now," and hung up, all I wanted to do was call her back. And talk to her some more. Because it was almost her. For the first time in 8 or 9 months, she sounded like her. The One I remember. The one I've just about finished (I think) grieving.
Dammit.
Damn her.


YT tip Toes into Gardners thread and inconspicuously says "Hey G-Man go read your advice to that YTJUY guy on his thread about 2 hours ago!...."

YT tiptoes back out of thread and closes door behind.

I realize that I might be the last person qualified to give you any advice and you have a ton of people that are much better versed than I in here daily, however--like you told me don't pay attention to what they do and less than 50% of what they say.

I assume that means on positive (sentimental) things as well? Your ex-W is probably sad and hurt about things but not enough yet to realize that she is the one that caused it. So when you hear her talk like that next time you (like me) need to be better prepared and have your armor on and your defenses up.

Again, you are so helpful and thoughtful in my thread that I hope you are not offended to get some of your advice back. I wish I was insightful enough to have my own advice, but when yours is so dead on I do what I did in College.......Plagerize it!

Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/18/10 02:29 PM
Quote:
Serenity,
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
Sweetie - You will never fully be finished grieving her/your marriage...There will always be a piece of you that wonders - What could have been, what went wrong, what should have been etc...
I understand your point but, Lord, I hope you're wrong.


I agree with Serenity here, and acceptance of that is helpful. I believe we will always have periods of time when we reflect and wonder, and still have those feelings. How can we not? They were a huge part of our life. I do believe though that the emotion of them will lessen over time as we gain better perspective and our own personal growth.

As a former smoker that still gets the urge for a cigarette once in a while, I know these feelings come back and never go away. I also still think back to my first fiance at times and just wonder, and we split up some 16+ years ago.

Those times never go away, but when they come they can be managed, so don't beat yourself up for feeling the way you do right now, after having an emotional conversation with your stbxw.

You continue to do well G, and are a strong and resilient man.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/18/10 04:08 PM
YT,
Welcome! No need to tip-toe.
Originally Posted By: ytjuy
YT tip Toes into Gardners thread and inconspicuously says "Hey G-Man go read your advice to that YTJUY guy on his thread about 2 hours ago!....like you told me don't pay attention to what they do and less than 50% of what they say.
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. wink Just really caught me off-guard. We don't talk anymore. I won't even go to Mediator sessions. Unlike traditional L-to-L divorces, I've discovered that mediation keeps you face-to-face and all the emotions are front and center (plus, I have this 17-year habit of not being able to say, "no" to her and was giving away the farm!). I've grown quite out of practice steeling myself for what she's going to say this time when we don't talk at all anymore.

Thanks for the 2x4. Always helpful to be reminded to stick to the basics, i.e., DBing 101.
Posted By: volleydog Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/18/10 04:16 PM
Wow...Your mediation is f2f...When I did mine we were each in separate rooms and the mediator would go back and forth with proposals...Could you ask the mediator for separate rooms?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/18/10 04:22 PM
iwitw,
Originally Posted By: iwantittowork
I believe we will always have periods of time when we reflect and wonder, and still have those feelings. How can we not? ...Those times never go away, but when they come they can be managed, so don't beat yourself up for feeling the way you do right now, after having an emotional conversation with your stbxw.
I know. You guys are right. I wasn't really beating myself up. All those "I wish I had"s I mentioned to Serenity were really "next time remember to"s.
With 9 months or so without any real talking, I just wasn't prepared for her after 14 months of her alien replica. wink
Posted By: Serenity13 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/18/10 05:23 PM
(((Gardener)))

I just wanted to come by and say good morning and see how you are today. smile
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/18/10 06:04 PM
Fine, thanks. Several newbies on Newcomers today. I remember waiting for an instant reply when I first posted. It's a lonely feeling right after you've put yourself "out there," so I try to reply to 'em even if it's just a boiler-plate reply.

But I gotta get off the board soon. I got things to do!! crazy

How are you today?
Posted By: Serenity13 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/18/10 06:12 PM
I was just reading in the Newcomers section and I can't bring myself to respond...

I am trying though - I will get through this...

You were right and I shouldn't have left so I am back and will somehow get through this.

(((Hugs)))
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/18/10 06:29 PM
(((Serenity)))
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
I was just reading in the Newcomers section and I can't bring myself to respond...
Good. If you can't, don't.
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
I am trying though - I will get through this...
You were right and I shouldn't have left so I am back and will somehow get through this.(((Hugs)))
Well, it's not a case of should or shouldn't, but I understand. Stay with/on your own thread. Sounds like you need it.
And you will get through this. Somehow, we always do.
And, re: your sitch, did you consider calling in some of son's mentors like I suggested?
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/19/10 06:26 PM
Hey Gardener,

I am dropping by some people's threads that are great with posting in hopes you can drop by SirPrizeMe's thread in StBD. I feel he can really use some help, guidance and prayers in his thread..
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/20/10 12:56 PM
*hugs*

How are things going?

Countdown for D'day.. huh?

*hugs*
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/20/10 02:52 PM
Hi, G'Woman,

I'm doing so-so.

Sorry to her H is being an @ss.

Waiting to hear from "mediator" as to proposed final terms. I don't think we're far apart and W wants no more legal fees and wants to sign in time for next Tuesday, so we'll see. Haven't heard from W since Saturday's post, which is probably just as well. Told her I sent my "finals" to mediator and when mediator relays them to her, we can go from there. I don't send anything to W. Let the "mediator" mediate.

I sent those 5 changes Friday after meeting w/L. L now wants retainer, wants to litigate. I told him I don't want to and, besides, no can do. Can't afford the money (or the time). Told him I'll ask him to review final document.

Yesterday he emails me, "At this stage I am either in or I am out." So, I don't know. When I first met him in July he said he'd litigate or review final agreement should we decide mediator route. I had two interim meetings with him during which he knew we were going mediator route. Now, apparently, he won't do final review.

I'll probably wing it. crazy

Hugs to you, (((G)))
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/21/10 09:16 PM
Hey G, as far as the L goes, I don't know about CT, but in MA, we would have to have had a L go over the final doc, and I would at least suggest it if you agree.

If this L won't do it, you can find another.

Good luck in getting an agreement hammered out..
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/22/10 12:22 AM
Wait to see if the mediator can reach an agreement between the 2 of you before telling your L to take a hike. If mediation reaches an agreement, you can still ask your L to review it, but be wary as he may suggest you to not accept the mediated settlement so as to stuff his coffer in L to L negotiations or the very expensive in court dance.

Just so you know, my W asked for another chance right before the D was final. She never showed any sort of sign that she would be strong enough to rebuild so I told her NO before she could get to begging. Over a year later I dont regret my decision.

It sounds like you are done also with your W. Move forward and dont let her wishy washy emotions distract you.
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/22/10 12:13 PM
Hey G'Man..

Re.. the lawyer.

Like anything, set your boundaries. In a simple sentence tell him what you've said here.

Have you been paying/billed for the interim sessions, emails, phone calls after the initial consultation? Ask him how much you owe him, how much he estimates reviewing the final agreement would be.

He knows the case, the particulars and could wrap it up faster than another lawyer who jumps in cold. That you want to wrap it up and only litigate if the agreement warrants it.

He's there to advise, not hold your hand. Take it or leave it.

Just make sure a qualified lawyer reviews the final agreement.

*hugs*
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/22/10 06:18 PM
Hey, G-Woman, iwitw, KerryK,

L called me shortly after my last post. Said he was in or out Litgation-wise only. Told me in July that he'd review final agreement and he's gonna review final agreement.

He'll review for wording, loopholes, etc., only, but no more work on content unless I retain him. He's seen two versions of agreement so far, went through it, made suggestions. So he will assume final doc is agreed upon re: content and not concern himself with that part too much in reviewing.

That's fair.

And yes, I paid him up front every time I met with him, so that's not an issue.

Whew. I'm glad.

Got cc'd on stbxw's email to mediator yesterday. I had sent in my final changes and she sends this email, which contains nothing I needed to see or know about. Except, perhaps, she wanted make sure I saw one line in it: "I never thought I'd have to protect myself financially from Gardener."

Ya think? wink
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/22/10 06:28 PM
So, quick update.
Looks like we're just about in agreement.
Will have meeting with Mediator early Monday.
L review of Agreement Monday/Tuesday.
D Wednesday.

Now to sell the house. Had fairly active showings for January, of all months. Two today. So far, most comments have been about layout of the place, size of the land, and things like that. Not one prospect or R.E. Agent has once mentioned price as an obstacle, sticking point.
So that's good.
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/23/10 04:04 AM
Hey G---it is glad to hear that the agreement is almost done. Although I know you and everyone else did not want things to end this way, it has to be a relief to have this from hanging over your head. I hope that you are out and about tonight and GAL'ing having a great time.
Just wanted to let you know we were thinking about ya!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/23/10 07:43 PM
Thank, yt.
I appreciate that.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/23/10 08:31 PM
Long journalling...

So last night, the final 3-way telephone conversation w/mediator. Pretty much in agreement. I email mediator and stbx afterward to summarize.
stbx emails this morning with some last minute considerations. Reasonable ones.

I called her. We discussed calmly and decently. For the second time in a week, she suddenly sounds like her again, the one whose been alien-AWOL for 14 months. Go figure.

And the one who last Sunday was suddenly crying to me on the phone about never meaning "to cause all this strife, all this destruction, all this!" Listens to me calmly as I close our conversation by saying,

"This was unnecessary.
I was changeable.
You were changeable.
We were improvable.'

To which she replies - get this - that she agrees with me and launches into a regret of "letting so many resentments build up unnecessarily toward the end but I never learned how to voice my opinions, my expectations."

I replied with, "As you know, StepD and I have never discussed our situation. We, did however do so once, in a brief series of three emails after the baby was born. In the second email, I mentioned how, after such a great summer of '08, The Bomb, for me came out of the blue.

In the third and final email, StepD responded to the out-of-the-blue claim with, "I do know that Mom clearly and regularly communicated unhappiness and concern over your relationship over a long, extended period of time."

Mrs. G. fell silent at that and I said to her, "I resisted the temptation to email back to StepD the first thought that popped into my head when I read that: 'Not to me she didn't!' (Mrs.G), I wish you had told me!"

To which Mrs. G responds,"So do I. I wish I had, too."

WTF? Four days til court date and she's being reasonable, owning her part (finally) and expressing remorse? I repeat: WTF?

So I later emailed her:

Subject: Our final email.

(Mrs. G),

I just said,

"I was changeable.
You were changeable.
We were improvable."

You agreed.

You said you harbored resentments that you never gave voice to, that you were never taught to give voice to.

I agreed.

And I admitted to the exact same thing, adding that I realize now that my resentments toward you were really misdirected resentments against myself: resentment for accepting the unacceptable, for not voicing it, for fearing the conflict that voicing them would have precipitated.

We never - or very rarely - fought. We should have. I read two separate authors this year who said that never fighting is their number one indicator of eventual divorce. Who knew?

And yet, Wednesday we divorce. You and I. (Mrs. G) and G!. Divorce.

"Pride hears its voices and fear wins again
And another cruel ending calls."

You have needlessly destroyed everything. Everything.

Goodbye, (Mrs. G).

Gardener"

WTF?
Posted By: Kalni Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/23/10 09:32 PM
Believe me I can feel what you are feeling... And I know it sucks. WTF? Now? Well, it has happened before and if you check out Gforces threads, his wife backed off the day of the D. They just had a baby a couple of months ago.

BUT, it doesst always play out like that, and I think that even if the WAS really do want to end the M, the regret and remorse sneak in their heads anyway. I mean, they are still human afterall-some of them at least! Especially when the LBS has treated them with kindness and at some point what they KNOW isntead of what they believe, surfaces...

I am not sure you can do anything right now. You did give her an opening, you have stated your take on what happened. It is pretty sad to allow pride and the feeling of "it is too late now" get in the way of a possible reconciliation but, you cant be pursuing now. I would even suggest try implementing all avaiable detachement techniques and stop spinning.

Although I have been reading your threads on and off, I havent lately and I dont know what YOU want right now. If you still love her, remember that a piece of paper will not stand in the way if what's important is there between you.
Love is much more appreciated when the couple feels they nearly lost it.

I dont believe any of us can give you a preview of what may follow because we dont know. I dont think she knows either.
Stay strong for the next coming days. What will be, will be.
K
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/23/10 09:38 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener

This was unnecessary.
I was changeable.
You were changeable.
We were improvable.

Letting so many resentments build up unnecessarily.

I realize now that my resentments toward you were really misdirected resentments against myself.



Hey Gardener, I can so relate to the things you've writtn here.
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/23/10 09:41 PM
Originally Posted By: Kalni

It is pretty sad to allow pride and the feeling of "it is too late now" to get in the way of a possible reconciliation.


Agreed.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/23/10 10:11 PM
Thanks, Kalni,
I agree. My email was five hours ago, No response.
I don't know what I want at this stage.
I look at what she said today.
I look at how great it was (or so I thought) right up until bomb day.
I look at her abusive father (who she never reconciled with and had no contact with for almost 30 years) dying 5 months before the Bomb and seeing connections there.
Then I look at her accusing me of several vile, simply false things this past year.
I look at her somehow -somehow - turning my beloved StepD and StepS against me just recently.
I look at so many other things and:
It may just be too late, too much water over the dam, no going back now.
Next move - if any - is hers. But somehow, I doubt there'll be one.
If anything, I expect the usual backlash after this instance of honesty, of opening up.
We'll see.
And by the way, re: Do I still love her? I love the person she used to be.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/23/10 10:21 PM
antlers,
Originally Posted By: antlers
Originally Posted By: Kalni

It is pretty sad to allow pride and the feeling of "it is too late now" to get in the way of a possible reconciliation.
Agreed.
Yep. My curiosity and my WTF is up, but my hopes are not.
Originally Posted By: antlers
Hey Gardener, I can so relate to the things you've writtn here.
Yep. Probably universal to all of our sitches.
Not holding out hope, but we'll see. I've always said that I believe I will be fine, ultimately but that my dear friend is in for a big fall, eventually. Maybe it's started early.
Thanks, antlers.
Posted By: Dane Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/24/10 12:01 AM
Keep us posted. I agree the fall will come. Good luck my friend, I hope and pray you find happiness.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/24/10 12:21 AM
Hi Gardner. I consider it a real compliment to be invited to come by your thread. I donít feel qualified to really give advice when the stitch has gone this far, but guess that doesnít stop me from giving my opinion.

I tried to put myself in your Wís place and wonder how she feels right now. I believe that ďrealityĒ in what she has fought to accomplishÖ.is hitting her in the face. I donít think she really wants wants to call anything off or to reconcile. I donít think that sheís reached the place that she truly knows that for a fact. She is probably a bit scared and I think very, very sad. She may be "fishing" to see if she can determine if you've gone soft or not. Glad to see you stand your ground.

I think if it were me and my H, I would be terribly sad over the fact that we ďcouldĒ have been such a terrific couple and had such a solid M, but we didnít do what we needed to do to save it.

I compare it to going to the funeral home and seeing the body of a loved one. When you walk in and see them for the first time, it just hits so hard that they are really dead. Sorry for using this particular comparison, but that is how I see this situation. I think your W is seeing the death of this M and she may feel a certain amount of shock. But I donít know, really, since Iíve not personally gone through it. But, I do believe she is having ďsadĒ emotions to over-ride the angry feelings right now, and maybe sheís just in a ďstateĒ, so to speak.

I have to agree with Kerry. IMHO, I think it would probably be best to move forward with your plans. IfÖÖIFÖ..she really wants a R with you, then she should have to fight like h3ll to get you. And after all that she has done to hurt this M and all the Rís in the family, Iím thinking there would be a lot of healing and C to be done.

Itís bad to go through all that a couple does to get a D only to discover that wasnít what was desired in the long run. However, as so many have discussed before, that is what it often takes for some people to get their eyes open. I think that sheíll be sad and may even secretly want you to charge in on your white horse at the last minute to stop the D, but I donít think she wants it badly enough to do the work she needs to do to reconcile. (I always hope Iím wrong about these sorts of things.) The only way I see a healthy future with her would be ďafterĒ a D and an entirely new R develop.

I believe you are going to be okay. More than okay! I believe that you have already been grieving over the death of this M, so you have some of that behind you. Itís a matter of letting that last part go. I think that good-bye email you sent was very well stated. Iím glad you didnít validate her about anything that time, b/c she needed to hear just what you said!

Once the D takes place, I think youíll feel free and be able to be happier than youíve been in a while. You deserve it, friend. I think all of us would agree that we just want what ďyouĒ want.

Take care,
Sandi
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/24/10 12:42 AM
Hey G-man, I think Sandi nailed it there.

I can only offer my insights to you from my sitch in comparison, fwiw..

I have thought a lot about this in my sitch, who the current stbx iwitw is, and why would I ever want that back? Or even the previous Mrs. IWITW, as that didn't work either..

So, Stbx Ms G should have to fight hard for the current Mr G. Would you want her back in present WAS form? I don't think so. Nor would you really want back the old Mrs. G either, because that didn't work either.

It may be incorrect to think about it this way, but I have recently formed the opinion, or view, that there are 3 "people" in a MR, or any healthy committed R now. Two stable and strong individuals, and the 3rd party is the MR itself, which requires nurturing and work from both of the individuals.

It helps me to think about the three as separate, as you can see that if only 1 works on the R, it can't last and will wither away. Although there will be times when 1 or the other puts more effort into the R to keep it alive, and that should ebb and flow..

Keeping you in my thoughts, stay strong and focused on what G-man wants right now..
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/24/10 01:15 AM
Thank you, Sandi,

You "got' most of what I feel and all of which I needed to hear validated.
My WTF radar was up far more than my hopes were; my hopes, actually weren't up at all.

And if she wanted to Reconcile, there would be an awful lot she would have to say, do, apologize for, explain and start making serious amends for. At this point, I don't think that much backtracking, that much repairing is even possible anymore.

And even if it were, I don't know if I could ever be "there" again.

Besides, all I've seen is two recent instances of speaking - of words - on her part. No action or concrete steps taken at all.

I am quite far along in the grieving process. Now to face full-on, unemotionally, the undeniable fact that she no longer is - or perhaps never was - the person I once loved beyond measure.

I really appreciate you stopping by and I greatly admire all the "drive-by" DBing good you do for people here.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/24/10 01:21 AM
Thanks, iwitw, I think you nailed it here:
Originally Posted By: iwantittowork
So, Stbx Ms G should have to fight hard for the current Mr G. Would you want her back in present WAS form? I don't think so. Nor would you really want back the old Mrs. G either, because that didn't work either.
The three 3 "people" in an R theory/approach is quite good, too.

Thanks.
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/24/10 01:21 AM
That e-mail sounded very eloquent, Gardener- well done. I'm glad you gave her something to think about, and that maybe she actually heard you. I hope she really thinks about it.

I wish you well this week, take good care of yourself.

Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/24/10 01:22 AM
Thank you, Bunny.
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/24/10 01:58 PM
That was a good sign-off Gardener. I think it's important for us to do things that make us feel good, as long as it's not detrimental to us. Regardless of the effect it has on WAS, we need to start doing more and more things for ourselves. And not even think about the effect, if any, that it had on the WAS.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/24/10 10:19 PM
thanks, antlers.
An, boy, are you spot-on with the rest.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/24/10 10:28 PM
So, today a few last minute emails and tweakings from Mediator on final draft. One thing she proposes is a minor wording change that she thinks will give me a slightly increased credit on something-or-other when the house is sold.
I emailed her back, cc'ing stbxw:

"I appreciate your examining this in multiple ways to see which benefits me more. I'll go along with whichever you suggest because all - all - I want now is no further delays.
I want to be out of this, done with it, and divorced from (Mrs.G) on Wednesday 1/27.
No further delays."

Enough. Fourteen months of Alien lies and vile, false accusations. E-friggin-nough!
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/25/10 02:10 AM
Hey buddy,

Sorry I did not have a chance to review your posts yesterday.

But I have now, and, well, you sound like me. I have accepted the D, but see it all as so unnecessary. But, I (and you) can only speak for me, not her.

I think you are making the right decision to keep moving on without her. And, I know that's still painful. It is to me as well.

I feel in many ways you are so far ahead of me. I'm sure I'll need some advice in the coming months. I didn't NOT expect to be where I am right now, but, like Sandi's example of viewing the corpse, it is really real now.

We are similar in that we both still love the old versions of our W's. But, they aren't that version any longer, and haven't been for a while. We just didn't see it yet.

And I think we would both put our M's back together if our W's wanted that AND were willing to do the work. I, like you, could not live with this current embodiment of my W. Too much pain, too much betrayal.

So, unless and until they are willing to do the work to (a) win us back and (b) improve themselves, we have but one option - to start living our lives...AGAIN. And we will.
Posted By: v1olin Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/25/10 03:03 AM
Gardener,
I am also considering a "goodbye" letter to my wife. Short and sweet but also proclaiming my doneness.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/25/10 03:23 AM
Dane, I forgot to reply to you
Originally Posted By: Dane
Keep us posted. I agree the fall will come. Good luck my friend, I hope and pray you find happiness.
Thank you. I am finding happiness along with increased peace and optimism everyday (except for when the roller coaster takes another one of those nasty unexpected dives!) crazy
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/25/10 03:31 AM
Hey, gima
Originally Posted By: givingitmyall
I feel in many ways you are so far ahead of me. I'm sure I'll need some advice in the coming months.
Oh, I don't know about that. But regardless, you'll have my advice fwiw whenever you need it and I'll still be looking to you for the same.
Originally Posted By: givingitmyall
We are similar in that we both still love the old versions of our W's. But, they aren't that version any longer, and haven't been for a while. We just didn't see it yet.
Often, I think I refused to see it, avoided seeing it.
Thanks.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/25/10 03:34 AM
Violin,
Originally Posted By: v1olin
I am also considering a "goodbye" letter to my wife. Short and sweet but also proclaiming my doneness.
Might be good to put the final nail in the coffin. Mine, as you see, was kind of impromptu as opposed to planned. A reaction to her sudden reasonableness, owning her actions, and expressing remorse and regret totally out of the blue on the phone the other day.
Peace,
Posted By: v1olin Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/25/10 03:38 AM
I understand Gardener. Mine will also serve as a final offer of a lifevest before the ship goes down. I have no hope that it will "do" anything but I will feel better knowing that I did offer. Have a good new life Gardener!
Posted By: rockedworld Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/25/10 04:02 AM
G Man...
I will be thinking of you this week. You are in my prayers.
((hugs)) from Rocked
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/25/10 04:29 AM
v1olin,
Originally Posted By: v1olin
Mine will also serve as a final offer of a lifevest before the ship goes down. I have no hope that it will "do" anything but I will feel better knowing that I did offer.
Do what you have to, just don't cross the line to pursuing at this point. Serenity13 advised me to do the same after stbxw's recent, honest almost-soul-bearing comments. I just can't at this point. Besides there's been no follow up action to those two conversations.
Originally Posted By: violin
Have a good new life Gardener!
Thanks, v1olin.
May we all find the same.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/25/10 04:31 AM
Originally Posted By: rockedworld
G Man...
I will be thinking of you this week. You are in my prayers.
((hugs)) from Rocked
Thank you rocked. You are in my prayers, too.
And, damn! What's your real name in the .alt again? I forgot again. You'll have to visit me and remind me.
Posted By: rockedworld Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/25/10 07:59 PM
I will visit you there... wink
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/26/10 07:22 PM
So, the day before the D, my lawyer notices a wording mistake that the mediator made that would have unintentionally cost me some bucks and emails mediator (who agreed).

stbxw has a fit, sends an email to my lawyer telling him basically to butt out (?!?) crazy I have to go see my lawyer again (another $850.00; I should have retained him from the beginning, screw this Mediator crap) and now through emails from stbxw's lawyer, she is reneging on two agreements.

I fire back that she either backs off these two things - that up until last night she agreed to - or I drop mediation, no D tomorrow and I retain my lawyer.

We'll see...

Aaarrggghhh!!!mad mad mad
Posted By: rockedworld Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/26/10 07:31 PM
Oh (((Gardener))) that sucks. frown
Stay strong and stand your ground. You will get through this with your head held high!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/26/10 07:47 PM
Thanks, Rocked.

I just so wanted to be D'd tomorrow (after one delay from December 23rd already), but I'll be damned if I'll take a bath in this to do so.
Posted By: Lost Rabbit Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/26/10 07:51 PM
Just want to add some (()) Can totally understand you having enough and wanting it to be done and dusted.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/26/10 09:55 PM
P.O.'d "I'm-mad-as-hell-and-I'm-not-going-to-take-this-anymore!" journaling, mad

Well, another email from stbxw's lawyer with a nasty tone and reneging on one more thing. In a professionally worded email to the mediator, stbxw, stbxw's lawyer, .cc'ing my lawyer I told 'em all that I'm out. Screw mediation. I won't be in court tomorrow, I am leaving now to see my lawyer to give him a retainer to litigate this thing. I called the court to ask for a continuance last time; someone else can do it this time.

Then comes an immediate flurry of phone calls. From my wife which I don't answer, her lawyer, which I don't answer, from my lawyer, which I answer and he proposes a process in between this sham "mediation" and full-blown retainer/litigation in a group meeting on February 3rd. I agree to it. Then mediator calls and says can't we hammer this out today and go to court tomorrow, there are only two issues. I told her those issues were the two straws that broke the camel's back. STBXW has reneged on 27 agreements - financial and otherwise - since she moved out and in mediation I've made twelve concessions; name me one she's made. Mediator couldn't.

Done. Eff this. I don't care if this costs me more in legal fees than I'm going to get in the settlement. I'll chalk the difference up to N.U.T.S.

STBXW called while I was typing this post. I didn't answer. Left me a voice mail. I'm not going to listen to it. Stopped this post for a minute to email her and .cc mediator, my lawyer, her lawyer, Subject: No Contact, E-mail: I'll see you February 3rd."

To be crude, I'll sum this up in street slang: "Eff me?? Eff YOU!!!"
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/26/10 10:00 PM
Thank you Rabbit. There have been even newer developments (above). I freaked out. Nicely, of course! smile
Posted By: Lost Rabbit Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/26/10 10:10 PM
Im sure it was done in a professional and gentlemanly manner Gardener as always... Give her hell!
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/26/10 10:17 PM
Hey Gardener -

It seems like you are doing the right thing by retaining your own L. Your STBXW and her L seem to be in panic because of your striking hard now.

They say to treat the financial aspect of the divorce as a business deal. However, a business deal with a company like your STBXW would have been given up quite some time ago when it was determined that they could not be relied upon with agreements they made. You are now dealing more in terms of an armistice. Just make sure you dont be the one doing the unconditional surrender.

Hold on to your N.U.T.s indeed. Keep that legal hammer cocked, but in a calm manner. Pick your battles carefully and cut your loses when it seems that increased litigation will delay and become much more costly.

You gotta look on the bright side...her being a stingy flip-flopping reneger sure makes it so much easier for you to be happily divorced from her.

I wish you luck.

PS... Be careful around pasta guy.
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/26/10 10:20 PM
Wow- I'm sorry about all that, Gardener. And I think you're right about letting your atty handle it from this point. I can't believe the mediator lets your wife get away with pulling that kind of BS. Do you have something to do tonight to take your mind off it?

Lotsa Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/26/10 10:25 PM
Thanks, Kerry. I appreciate the encouragement and support.
But:
Originally Posted By: KerryK
PS... Be careful around pasta guy.
What's with all the references to Pasta Guy I keep bumping into around these parts?
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/26/10 10:49 PM
I thought you were going to Kathleen's show where pasta guy might be.
Posted By: CityGirl Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/26/10 11:10 PM
I can sympathize. The exact same thing happened to me. My H was supposed to sign our Agreement (that we reached in court!) at 3pm to be filed at 5pm and he backed out.

I went hardcore (he was paying the legal fees, lol, so why the hell not!) and the night before our trial was to begin he backed down and signed. I waited until the very end to pull all out ALL the cards I had and while it was a bit of a gamble in the end it worked in my favor.

If you do retain your attny (I agree, mediation is a joke) be sure he contacts your W's attny and tells him/her ANY future contact must go through counsel.

Sending you tons of good vibes - I have been where you are and it is pure crap!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/26/10 11:54 PM
Kerry, Oh, Yes. I remember now. Yeah, I'm going to go this weekend. Too bad Kathleen's not going to be around.
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/27/10 12:10 AM
I could meet up and do appetizers before the show if you want. Who knows.. maybe Donna would want to go to the show.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/27/10 12:30 AM
G-Woman,
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
I could meet up and do appetizers before the show if you want. Who knows.. maybe Donna would want to go to the show.
That would be great.

Your take on my
1) sitch meltdown and
2) M Shutdown

today?
Posted By: motherof3 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/27/10 02:43 AM
G - Silently following.

(((Gardener)))

Give her he!!
Posted By: Bridgestone Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/27/10 02:45 AM
Hi Gardener,
wanted to stop by & say hi...

I hope you are finding some peace with your choice. What made a lot of my choices & concessions easier during my mediation process, was keeping in mind what would be the most likely outcome IF we went to court.

Keeping 'my worst case scenario' in mind.. knowing that StBX had a lot more to lose going to court than I did.. helped A LOT & I figured anything above that.. was cake.

So if you are at a point where you realize you will get = or more by going to court.. then go for it.. hopefully you can let the anger go & give yourself permission to realize you made the best decision for you... no apologies, no vindictivness (ok maybe a touch).. just acceptance of .. "the next step".

Peace
Bridge
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/27/10 03:25 AM
Hey buddy! Just wanted to let you know I am sorry to hear about what happened today. Good job keeping strong but at the same time keeping your pride and dignity in tact.

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with what you did at all, standing up for yourself and showing STBXW that you are much more valuable and worth far more than she has shown you is vital. I have not read the book but getting your "N.U.T.S." as I have seen around here is an important part of regaining yourself post M.

....Hmm, maybe I am learning a little to watching your lead! Thanks!
Posted By: Reincarnated Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/27/10 04:07 AM
Gardener -
What a mess (just caught up). Hope that things settle down pretty quickly, I know you had it in your head to be done tomorrow. Who knows...maybe in the early business hours, stbx and her atty will come to their senses and ask you back into court to finalize things....?

Sorry about this weekend, but I have my kiddos with me. You will have to provide us with a review.
Posted By: v1olin Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/27/10 04:55 AM
Gardener! I made this same decision after my mediation wich was court ordered which lasted 4.5 hours and cost $1300! The only thing we got figured out was that I would get the Wii video game. A joke for sure! 2 weeks ago I decided that the risk of going to court (in a pro female system) was too much to risk. So I gave my lawyer the go ahead to start bargaining. I got every other weekend + one over night and one 2.5 hour visitation a week. I also got 1/2 her 401k and 1/2 her pension. I would rather have had my kids 1/2 time but she would not give in. The risk of a judge siding with her was too much for me. Good luck! You will feel much better that you stood up and took charge!
Posted By: goldeylox Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/27/10 01:09 PM
Chin up, G-Man.
Oregon is rooting for Gardener today.
No matter what, you have done your best, and that's all anyone can hope for. Peace. Goldey
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/27/10 01:16 PM
Originally Posted By: goldeylox
No matter what, you have done your best, and that's all anyone can hope for.


Yep.
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/27/10 01:53 PM
Hey G'Man..

Reread Kerry's post.

Originally Posted By: KerryK

It seems like you are doing the right thing by retaining your own L. Your STBXW and her L seem to be in panic because of your striking hard now.

They say to treat the financial aspect of the divorce as a business deal. However, a business deal with a company like your STBXW would have been given up quite some time ago when it was determined that they could not be relied upon with agreements they made. You are now dealing more in terms of an armistice. Just make sure you dont be the one doing the unconditional surrender.

Hold on to your N.U.T.s indeed. Keep that legal hammer cocked, but in a calm manner. Pick your battles carefully and cut your loses when it seems that increased litigation will delay and become much more costly.


Separate the emotion (the loss of family, etc) from the legal (equal dispersion of financial assets and debts).

Let Bob take care of the legal, do his job. He's great at it. Let him know you want out as cleanly and fiscally responsibly as possible.

Your divorcing spouse lacks boundaries and common sense; e.g., telling YOUR legal representative to butt out and thinking it's a good idea. So.. you do need a lawyer.

And, G.. you have to trust his advice because your wife knows how to push your buttons.

Ask yourself what is appropriate. Then make it so.

*hugs*
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/27/10 03:25 PM
G'man

Sorry to hear of the latest updates, your going the same road I am in.

As Kerryk picked up on, pick your battles carefully, and decide what you want to fight for.

For me, the money didn't become the issue either, it was just the outright entitlement that killed the deal, and the fact stbxw figured she would walk with half the assets, get full support, and leave me holding the liabilities.

It sounds like you are doing what is best for you, and that is what counts now. Keep that up, and keep that attitude. Accept and let the emotion drop as much as possible so you can focus on what is important going forward

Good luck man, keep us informed of how things are going!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/27/10 10:00 PM
iwitw,
Thanks. It's the last minute greed that got to me. Someone who wants to split everything 50-50 is like the proverbial person who "wants to meet you half way" except the problem is they think they're already there.

What also got to me is that the nonsense and re-writing history is now going into the record. For example:

STBXW: "I did not leave!" Excuse me?

STBXW's L: "this case is unlike others where one party simply deserts the marital asset leaving the other to pay for all costs." Excuse me, again? This is exactly what happened!

Oh well, I already learned in my first divorce and in my child custody case years ago that once you enter the courtroom - even after the oath is taken - truth is irrelevant and bald-faced, scandalous lies abound.

Justice? Ppffftt!!!

Winning is all that matters.
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/27/10 11:51 PM
Gman, I've just caught up with your sitch. I'm sorry it had to go this far before you finally clicked and stopped being a doormat.

I saw your post on GIMA's thread and this is what I have to say:
IT'S ABOUT FARKING TIME YOU STOOD UP FOR YOURSELF!!!!!

With that said, I'd like to re-iterate the advice that KerryK and Gypsy have been giving you... "pick your battles carefully..." and heed your L's advice. It's good you've finally stood up for yourself, but be wary of pride - it has been the downfall of many a great man.

I think the shot across the bow for 2/3 is good. It will get their attention. Your insane W was looking forward to wiping the doggy-doo off her shoes into your face with those last two items. I am ECSTATIC that you didn't fall for that. So... now... with that knowledge in hand, here's your tactical advantage:

1) She has just seen the fortune that was almost in her fingertips evaporate... in front of her eyes.
2) She will NOT want this to go to court because it will delay her "lifestyle"

With that in mind... cancel all 27 compromises you made in the meeting on 2/3. BE COMPLETELY unreasonable... (to a certain degree...) That's the way negotiation happens. Make it seem that you are unwilling to bend and you will see them in court. Let her know that you are not afraid to lose every cent. This will strike the fear of the devil (note: I didn't say God) in her.

Win back as much as you can... I know you want out ASAP... but this has gone beyond this. This has become a matter of dignity. Meet with your L beforehand and discuss this with him. Get his advice on what is the best way to handle this... tell him what you want to achieve... and then let him handle it. REMEMBER ONE thing: The objective is NOT to end up in court but stop at the final step before court. wink

Godspeed and His blessing be with you....

and in case you forgot... IT'S ABOUT FARKING TIME!!!!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/28/10 12:28 AM
Thanks, Gno,
Originally Posted By: Gnosis
Meet with your L beforehand and discuss this with him. Get his advice on what is the best way to handle this... tell him what you want to achieve... and then let him handle it. REMEMBER ONE thing: The objective is NOT to end up in court but stop at the final step before court. ;)Godspeed and His blessing be with you....
I don't want to fight this in court. I'm sure it won't come down to that. I have a great lawyer - never should have gone this farking Mediation route - I will leave it entirely up to him. He knows what I want, where I've been getting screwed, and exactly what to do..
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 01/30/10 03:20 PM
Hey G. Just wanted to voice my support for you...and hope that you soon get to a place where you're happy and content. It's a pisser that you (or any of us) have to go through this crap.

Stay strong.
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/01/10 12:30 PM
G'Man..

How are you doing? Did you see the show?

What's up?

*hugs*
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/02/10 02:07 AM
G-Woman!
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
G'Man..
How are you doing?
Did you see the show?
What's up?
*hugs*
1)Really lousy. Today.
2)No, I didn't.
3)Not me. Will be soon, again, though.
Thanks for asking.
And thanks for the hugs.
(((G)))to(((G)))
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/02/10 02:35 AM
Hey Gardner---
Sounds like a tough day, keep your chin up and I hope tomorrow is a better day
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/02/10 02:42 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
G-Woman!
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
G'Man..
How are you doing?
Did you see the show?
What's up?
*hugs*
1)Really lousy. Today.
2)No, I didn't.
3)Not me. Will be soon, again, though.
Thanks for asking.
And thanks for the hugs.
(((G)))to(((G)))


G to G to G... here's a worthy cliche to live by: Tough times never last, but tough people do.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/02/10 02:55 AM
Buffet,
Thanks. Even if tomorrow isn't I have a feeling Wednesday (L to L to Mediator Sitdown will be.)
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/02/10 02:58 AM
Gno,
Originally Posted By: Gnosis
G to G to G... here's a worthy cliche to live by: Tough times never last, but tough people do.
Thanks. I "Gno" this and I will last. And thrive. Just an exceptionally draining day, is all.
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/02/10 03:34 AM
Hey Gman... thought you would know it... just couldn't figure out something else to say.

Here's to a good, refreshing night's sleep!
Posted By: goldeylox Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/02/10 12:46 PM
Thank God we get to wake up every day and try again.
FWIW, I had a cr@ppy day yesterday too. And today will be better.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/03/10 10:50 PM
Update,
Mediation finalized today and is being rewritten.
The Big D that I'll be Surviving will finally be a reality next Tuesday, Feb 9 at 9:30.

Relief.
And trepidation.
And fear.
Normalcy.
Posted By: motherof3 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/04/10 04:44 AM
Is there such a thing as a divorce party? If so, I will throw you one.

(((Gardener)))
Posted By: goldeylox Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/04/10 05:00 AM
Well, if so, it should be in Just for Fun, and we'll show him a great time!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/04/10 03:11 PM
m03 & goldey,
I'll be there!

I made a careless, but satisfying mistake today: I wrote a thank-you email to my lawyer. Short one. One of the three lines in it was, "You were clearly the best in that room yesterday."

After sending it, I realized I sent the reply just to him (not reply all) but it was part of a conversation "string" of 9 emails. I then sent a reply on something-or-other to my mediator and to TGSTBXW's lawyer,- in that same string - so they both now have a string of twelve conversations, the 10th of which let's em know what I think of them! smirk
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/04/10 03:22 PM
Awesome mistake!
Posted By: goldeylox Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/04/10 06:05 PM
Some comic relief...
"You were the best one in the room today ;)"
Could be taken the wrong way, if you included the STBXW.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/04/10 11:49 PM
Update on update
Just an interesting (to me) aside re: yesterday's mediation finale:

My TGSTBXW was always a wonderful warm, happy, woman to whom people were naturally drawn. Most common description used in reference to her was "she's so nice" (to the point that she almost hated the term).

Anyway, I, of course, have known that she was replaced by her space alien replica since 11/09/08.

And it wasn't until mid-summer of this year that I saw further changes in her and often referred to her here as, "she with the cold, dead eyes and disdainful look."

Long story longer: when my L called this a.m. to see if I was okay and was satisfied with yesterday's outcome, (and to make some mildly derogatory comments about Mediator and TGSTBXW's lawyer), he concluded with:

"And your wife; My GOD, what an absolute bitch!"

Moral: I saw all the changes, the coldness, the distance, the toxic ways, yet still had some vestiges of the rose-colored, memory glasses on, because hearing someone who I respect spend his first and only two hours with her and come to that conclusion made me realize that I was still not completely seeing or acknowledging the extent of her transformation. I still thought I saw some of the person I once loved in there. A case of finding what you're looking for I guess.

It's not there.
She's not there.

Even after fourteen months of working, changing, growing, empathizing, obsessing, DBing, concluding and coming to terms with the brutal reality of my situation, it took a single, simple observation by a stranger, an outsider, to make me finally see, acknowledge, and accept reality.
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/04/10 11:58 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Even after fourteen months of working, changing, growing, empathizing, obsessing, DBing, concluding and coming to terms with the brutal reality of my situation, it took a single, simple observation by a stranger, an outsider, to make me finally see, acknowledge, and accept reality.

Thank God for the clarity Gman. Brings to light the phrase: "I was blind but now I see."
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/05/10 12:04 AM
When my L met for negotiations with my W and her L during the court status meeting. I was left alone in the hall waiting. When my L came out to ask me a question regarding the negotiations, he said the similar sentiment that your L said to you about your W.

And today, I get a call from my XW at the dentist telling me that our daughter was x-rayed with 4 cavities. Who does she blame? Even though XW had terrible cavity problems herself as a child and I only have 3 cavities in my 50 years, I still get the blame because I let the kids have an occasional candy or soda.

You and I are both better off without these space aliens from the planet bitch in our lives!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/05/10 12:07 AM
Originally Posted By: Gnosis
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Even after fourteen months of working, changing, growing, empathizing, obsessing, DBing, concluding and coming to terms with the brutal reality of my situation, it took a single, simple observation by a stranger, an outsider, to make me finally see, acknowledge, and accept reality.

Thank God for the clarity Gman. Brings to light the phrase: "I was blind but now I see."
Amazing grace, Gno, amazing grace...
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/05/10 12:17 AM
Kerry,
Originally Posted By: KerryK
You and I are both better off without these space aliens from the planet bitch in our lives!
Right you are.
Originally Posted By: KerryK
I only have 3 cavities in my 50 years
Any 50 year old man whose tag line is:

"Young divorced dad who lives half the time with a wonderful son (9) and daughter (7)."

is my kind of man! cool
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/05/10 12:22 AM
The 50's are supposed to be the best decade in a man's life! You got 4 more years left - take advantage of em.
Posted By: goldeylox Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/05/10 05:49 AM
G-Man, even my mediator/now friend pointed out to me, "Goldey, you were the last one to realize it". The M has been dead for years.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/05/10 04:13 PM
Hey G-man,

It sounds to me like you are in a great place right now, and things are looking as best they can at this time. Keep it up!

Quote:
The 50's are supposed to be the best decade in a man's life! You got 4 more years left - take advantage of em.


Jeez, I hope so, I struggled with this myself in my sitch for a while with self imposed "My god, I am going to be single in my 40's?" and "Where am I going to find someone as attractive as my stbxw again!"

not good places to be in, and when you find yourself thinking like that, your sticking around and holding on to something for the wrong reasons.

Takes work to get out of that mindset, but totally limiting beliefs that need to be shed!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/07/10 06:23 AM
Originally Posted By: goldeylox
G-Man, even my mediator/now friend pointed out to me, "Goldey, you were the last one to realize it". The M has been dead for years.
Ain't it the truth?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/07/10 06:27 AM
iwitw,
Originally Posted By: iwantittowork
Hey G-man,
It sounds to me like you are in a great place right now, and things are looking as best they can at this time. Keep it up
Quote:
The 50's are supposed to be the best decade in a man's life! You got 4 more years left - take advantage of em.
Jeez, I hope so, I struggled with this myself in my sitch for a while with self imposed "My god, I am going to be single in my 40's?" and "Where am I going to find someone as attractive as my stbxw again!"
not good places to be in, and when you find yourself thinking like that, your sticking around and holding on to something for the wrong reasons.
Takes work to get out of that mindset, but totally limiting beliefs that need to be shed!
There is one - and only one - approach in my book:
Live your life.
Your life.
And see who shows up.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/07/10 04:50 PM
Quote:
There is one - and only one - approach in my book:
Live your life.
Your life.
And see who shows up.


Good stuff G. whistle
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/08/10 09:08 PM
Okay, I posted this "poll" over at Newcomers. Thought I'd put it here, too.

Serious question. I'm not being frivolous or cute.

You may recall that at one time Dia (seconded by Coach) double-dog-dared me to lighten up a Mediator meeting by showing up with Groucho Marx mustache glasses or those glasses with "the googly eyes on springs!"

I never did (Damn!).

Back to question: years ago, Mrs.G and I talked on the phone for weeks before finally meeting. We made a date to meet the first time. She said,"How will I recognize you?" I jokingly said, "I'll be the one wearing a red carnation."
And I was. I did. First time I laid eyes on her.

I was thinking of wearing one to court tomorrow. Not to be cute, not to be romantic, not to be sentimental, nor ironic, nor sarcastic or even wise-ass.

Just to "complete the circle," so to speak.

And to perhaps lighten an occasion that could use some lightening up.

So, I'm curious: whaddaya think?
Cast your votes.
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/08/10 09:18 PM
Yes! Do It!!!
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/08/10 09:21 PM
G-Man

I vote no. I would not give her the impression that you are in any way weak, or pining after her at all. IF there is ANY chance at you guys being something more than she should be the one to wear the carnation.

Just my .02
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/08/10 09:28 PM
Gman, I'm more or less on the same line as Buffet here.

That smacks of "sentimental old fool" and that's the last thing in the world you are. I don't want you to give her the satisfaction of laughing behind your back.

I'd go with the eye-popping glasses and mustache... because it's fun.
Posted By: BobbiJo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/08/10 09:38 PM
I like it just because it sort of completes the circle, symbolically...

I see the other POV, that you could appear needy or like you are trying to send her a message.

But, if you can do it knowing why and not caring what her opinion is, I would do it.
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/08/10 09:52 PM
The ONLY person that it would mean anything to would be you. It wouldn't mean crap to her. It wouldn't 'lighten' anything. As far as 'completing the circle' goes, you gotta do that in your mind. You don't need a symbol to help you do it. Let your strength, power, security, confidence, wisdom, and compassion (for YOU) help you do it.
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/08/10 09:53 PM
I like it, in a way, but I vote "no".
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 12:48 AM
Thank you all.

On my way home from my new GAL gym, I realized there could be any number of incorrect conclusions and intentions she could - and would -draw from my wearing any flower and it would be completely out of my control.

So, I decided to wear my dignity tomorrow.

Thanks for taking the time and for the food for thought.
Posted By: kara Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 12:57 AM
(((Gardener)))

I'll be thinking of you tomorrow.
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 01:04 AM
Sanity and logic prevail! Good choice Gman.
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 01:41 AM
Dignity is always in style. You will be the most classy guy in the joint!
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 02:05 AM
Good choice G man!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 04:07 AM
Just now (10:55 p.m.) received the FINAL version of the divorce agreement.

Yeah, that gives me - and my lawyer - plenty of time to review it and make any necessary changes/corrections before 9:00 tomorrow morning!

Mediators suck.
Mine does, anyway.

Tomorrow's gonna suck.

Goodnight.

Will report back in sometime tomorrow.
Posted By: v1olin Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 04:14 AM
I have yet to hear back about my own actual divorce as well. We signed an agreement on 1/14 for custody, house, and financial split but that did not dissolve the marriage. I asked my lawyer at that time how long will it be until it was legal and she said about 3 to 4 weeks. ?? Still no word and we are coming up on 4 weeks. Be glad that you have some closure Gardener.
Posted By: working on me Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 07:28 AM
Hey thanks for checking in on me!

In addition, thanks for the forward about you and your son. I feel confident that if I constantly strive to be my best as a man and a father my two little men will emerge from this as loving, compassionate, fullfilled, gentlemen.

Queastion - You suggested I see Gypsy, please elaborate on my thread.

Keep you head up tomorrow and stand tall.
Posted By: goldeylox Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 01:31 PM
Quack
Oregon is rooting for a successful outcome for you, for your STBX-W, and for all your herbs. Dignity. Closure.
When that's done, I need you to send the friggin' United States Army to Portland. STAT.
Peace.
Goldey
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 02:40 PM
Gardener.

I am thinking of you today, and hope that things go as smoothly as they can for you.

Proud to know you sir. Keep your head up!
Posted By: Serenity13 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 03:48 PM
(((Gardener)))

My friend - You are in my thoughts and prayers today.

smile
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 03:53 PM
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
(((Gardener)))

My friend - You are in my thoughts and prayers today.

smile


Add me to that list.
Posted By: motherof3 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 04:09 PM
Me too.

(((Gardener)))
Posted By: rockedworld Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 05:19 PM
I am on that list too! smile
Posted By: bright_new_day Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 05:31 PM
Be strong and dignified....yes it sucks, but so do a lot of things! This is just one step in your journey through life. Step forward.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 05:46 PM
Friends,

From June 28, 1991 until November 9, 2008, I was a man deeply and richly blessed beyond measure.

I am forever grateful for that.

Now it is time to mourn all that's been lost and destroyed since.

"All I can do is turn back to you
And wave with one hand on my heart
All that I know is it's so hard to go..."

Mary Chapin Carpenter.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 05:59 PM
I don't know what to add Gardener, other than I hope you can find peace and happiness.

I am not afraid or ashamed to hug someone who is hurting, no matter who they are.

((((((Gardener)))))))
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 06:07 PM
You did all you could man.

Move forward and dont look back too much.

BTW... I really like Mary Chapin Carpenter
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 06:23 PM
Quote:
From June 28, 1991 until November 9, 2008, I was a man deeply and richly blessed beyond measure.



You still are, my friend.

Pain is only temporary. It will go away.

To quote tou, all you can do is live your life and see who shows up, right?
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/09/10 06:24 PM
G'Man...

Where did November 8 come from?

Sending good thoughts..

*hugs*

PS.. Here's what someone shared with me that I found so intriguing on the day the divorce was finalized. "You'll feel so good in a year, you'll wonder why you didn't do it earlier."

Now.. you're you. And what a great you you are.

*hugs*
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/10/10 06:19 AM
G-Woman,
Thank you for that. And it was November 9, '08.
That was the day of the bomb.

I thought, really thought today:
Did it "end" today?
Did it "end" May 13 when she asked for a divorce?
Did it "end" 12/03/08 when she moved out?

No, it began June 28, 1991 and ended November 9, 2008 with "I got an apartment."

By the way, Bob called me tonight to see how I was doing and I remembered to ask him again about his kids. Here's the update::

Matthew is a Senior at LeHigh University.
Missy is a Freshman at Miami/Ohio.

Bob Says, 'Hi," to you.

(((Hugs)))
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/10/10 06:26 AM
Well, I Survived The First Day of The Big D!
That's a start!

Hre's my "Good-bye" to Newcomers:

D Day Journaling,
Friends,

It was surprising how much at peace and how calm I was in court through the proceedings this morning. Even during the drive home.

I walked into the house, into the kitchen and - as I just told gima - had a kitchen/dishtowel sobbing meltdown similar to his bathroom/towel scene last night.

What a very, very deep place within the soul, the heart, the psyche that comes from when it does erupt. And erupt it did.

I was alternately okay and not okay throughout the afternoon and evening.

Even though it's fifteen months today since I came home from retreat and she announced out of the blue "I got an apartment," and you would think that these ensuing months would have steeled me for the inevitable, I suddenly felt awfully lost and so very alone in this house today and tonight.

I kept myself busy by readying the house for a 5:15 showing, killing time at Borders during the showing reading some Stosny. A couple of emails and calls from friends, a couple of sentimental/reflective postings put on FB, a couple of hours on this board leaving me and mine behind and offering what I could to you and yours.

It is time now to bring my sitch over to Surviving The Big D permanently and to retire Changing Man over here in Newcomers, eternally grateful that for eight months you all contributed so much to my becoming that Changing Man.

I'll be back here to visit you and your sitches at Newcomers.
But I belong over there, now.

You have all been a Godsend.

Peace and love,
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/10/10 06:37 PM
I'm sorry Gardener.

You are a good man.
Posted By: talia Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/10/10 09:39 PM
I'm sorry Gardener.. You fought the good fight and should be very proud.

(((Gardener)))

Talia
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/11/10 02:39 AM
Thank you, antlers and Talia.

There will not be anything to be sorry about coming from me.
I may stumble a bit in the beginning with this since I will be new at not being sorry (read: victim) about anything. I will work harder on my PMA then ever before, and then, hopefully, on my PPMA (Permanent Positive Mental Attitude).

In that spirit, allow me to re-post just a portion (the positive part!) of what I posted here and on FB yesterday:

From June 28, 1991 until November 9, 2008, I was a man deeply and richly blessed beyond measure.
I am forever grateful for that.


There are too few in this world who never experience anything like that for even a short period of time.

I did!

Peace,
Posted By: orangedog Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/11/10 04:13 AM
It's a tough day. Sorry to hear. Get out tonight or tomorrow and spend time with friends.
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/11/10 04:30 AM
Hey G---just got back from my day of fun in the sun. Hope you are doing ok today. I will have to follow you even more as you are exactly one day ahead of me now!

Like I told you last night as much as possible go out have some fun, have a cold one or two, whatever just get out of the house and not think about it for a bit.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/12/10 05:59 AM
Yesterday or today, givingitmyall posted something that captured exactly where my thoughts kept going today:
Originally Posted By: givingitmyall
I have devoted my mental and emotional energy to the positive things that lie ahead for me:
-being independent again
-deciding where I want to live and what type of housing I want - condo? House?
-realizing things I want to do but haven't
-realizing there is a world of women out there who will be interested in me and, at some point, one of them will be the right one for me.

Feeling good, excited, adventuresome.
Posted By: goldeylox Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/12/10 01:35 PM
Well, G-Man, if you were here in Portland, you wouldn't be missing much. Rain, Rain, and More Rain.
Sure hope it quits raining soon, 'cause my toes are cold.
Not much you can do for adventure in these parts, I would look for a warmer spot to get away for a while.
Me, as much as I've always wanted to visit New Orleans for Mardi Gras, I think Goldey would faint from all the over-stimulation.
The Saints will have their party and I'll be watching...cheering from somewhere in the bleachers.
C'Mon team.
Even a cheerleader can read a playbook. Let's go finish this. Rah. Dammit. Rah.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/13/10 02:59 AM
Goldey,

I don't now why, but I still feel drawn to Oregon or maybe Washington.

I hope to visit Eugene this spring or fall.

Journaling,

Today - all - day, I felt positive. Was surprised by not feeling sad at all. Actually, to word it more accurately, I was surprised how "not sad " I did feel (if that subtle difference makes any sense).

I also noticed myself feeling complete.

I am enough.

Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/13/10 03:27 AM
Makes perfect sense to me. Glad you are having a good day.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/13/10 04:59 AM
Gardner, I lived in that corner for a big portion of my life. Dad still lives in Seattle in the same house where I grew up. (It's too crowded for me now. ) School in Bellingham. Liked it. Olympia is nice too. But Eugene...Dude!! Dog studied art there. Bikes. Track. Pre. Lots of good memories.

Thought about moving to Portland after school but went to AK and have here since. (Too much winter). Go visit the NW this spring.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/13/10 01:42 PM
Gardener, I'll be joining you here shortly. I think I'll move forums when the D is filed. I've received the paperwork, it just hasn't officially gotten to court yet.

Keep chugging along.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/14/10 05:19 AM
o'd,
Originally Posted By: orangedog
But Eugene...Dude!!
This is an endorsement, right? Tell me more! (or recommend any resources you may know of).
Originally Posted By: orangedog
Thought about moving to Portland after school but went to AK and have here since. (Too much winter). Go visit the NW this spring.
AK! I'm envious, yet at the same time,I don't know if I could do it (AK). Too removed, psychologically and geographically, for me, somehow.

The whole Pacific Northwest attraction fits in with the "by the book" discussion we had as well as some extreme GAL/180ing on my part. Also, a strong component of Kismet and Karma at work, here. Will explain another time.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/14/10 05:22 AM
CTH,
Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope
Gardener, I'll be joining you here shortly. I think I'll move forums when the D is filed. I've received the paperwork, it just hasn't officially gotten to court yet. Keep chugging along.
You, too.

I came over here kind of part time a few weeks back to "taper off" from Newcomers (in terms of my own sitch/thread, that is).
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/14/10 06:59 AM
journaling,
Today's recurring thought was that I am becoming quite apathetic to being divorced (see "complete" comment from yesterday).

However,*
Originally Posted By: Sandi2
As a former AWAW, I can tell you that fear of losing her will show on you and it will be a turn-off to her. I believe that regardless of what WAW say to their LBH, they truly want to see him show strength and leadership.
I sometimes have wondered what might may have happened if I found DB sooner than 7 months post-bomb.
I spent 7 months doing all the formulaically wrong things! Pleading, weeping, walking on eggshells, being remote and acquiescent to keep her from moving further away. Assuming it must be faults/flaws, lackings in me.
Originally Posted By: Sandi2
*My H was a nice guy but it was more his passive ways that made me so angry with him. He was so "nice" and so passive with me that I just wanted to slap him to get some other kind of reaction from him.

Although, I didn't start out that way: I was much more assertive, decisive, in charge in the beginning - and for years. I changed with ever-growing contentment.

The second six months I DB'ed, but neither strongly nor consistently and way too late.

The last two months I squarely faced the profound changes in her as a person, her abandoning of her word, promises, commitments and vows. And the hostile, disdainful, self-absorbed ways she treated me.

A long, inevitable journey to apathy.

*Every time I read a post fromSandi, I get another glimpse into (my) truth.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/14/10 08:56 AM
Yes, that's an endorsement for Eugene. I'll write more another time. It's getting late.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/14/10 03:30 PM
Yes. We can't go back. You live and learn. I knew about DB but didn't commit until I'd been separated four months.

The big thing I'll always wonder about is if I'd been reading DB would I have moved out or forced her to.

I had solid reasons. I felt like she had been daring/baiting me to leave for three years and I thought after I left she'd see how much I contributed to her life in terms of help with the house, financially and with the girls.

In that respect, everything worked just like I thought. She's broke, she spends much of her off-time from the girls cleaning and the girls ask her all the time when or if daddy is coming home.

But she's determined to be miserable on her own terms than try to rebuild things where compromise is part of the game. She truly is becoming her mother.

Funny question I mass toss out on my forum. I met a lady last night and I think we hit it off. Lots of eye contact. I was across the table from her and it was loud so we couldn't talk directly enough. I talked to her friend a lot too -- not to make it too obvious.

The lady I'm interested in is going through her second divorce and has kids my age.

So what are modern rules on something like this. We're both still married so I don't think it's appropriate to just call her up and ask her out. She is on FaceBook -- I got her last name before she left. I was considering just sending her a friend invite and saying it was great to meet her.

And then maybe build things from there.

Thoughts?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/14/10 04:27 PM
cth,
Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope
So what are modern rules on something like this. We're both still married so I don't think it's appropriate to just call her up and ask her out. She is on FaceBook -- I got her last name before she left. I was considering just sending her a friend invite and saying it was great to meet her.
As you may know, after my premature "crash and burn episode,"my current philosophy/approach is now two-fold:

It was recommended (I forget where) to go through one year alone. One cycle:1 Christmas, 1 New Years, 1 Valentines' Day, 1 Thanksgiving, etc.

I plan on doing this.

Healing time: Who IS Gardener? - alone?

And I've got a lot of 180ing and GALing, self-improvement yet to do.

The "Modern Rules?"
What are ClingingToHope's (hopefully well-thought-out) rules?

I plan on just discovering writing, and living my life for the most part and "seeing who shows up".** I want NO exclusive relationships (the occasional casual, sure) , but right now, I admit to a strong need and desire for female company and conversation. That's all. (well, not really, ALL wink ), but the the other has been absent for so long, I can wait a bit longer until it's right and replete with affection, nurturing, concern, etc., and not just a physical/mindless/soul-less act.

But, hey, that's just me. smile

** In your case, she showed up. Nothing wrong with talking, learning. Being interested. Just Don't Pursue!

What do you want from her? From you? From you with her?

Why - really why - do you not want to let this pleasant, positive, casual encounter with this not-the-only-woman-in-the-world just be? Something nice that happened to CTH. Period. Why have to build on it?
Do it again. Somewhere else. Somewhere WAY outside your comfort zone!

What's the more? here, for ClingingToHope? What's the need? Why the her? (Because she showed interest in ClingingToHope? (self-esteem)?

Just askin'. So you'll ask.

Ask your questions. Then answer them. Answers will come. Act on them.

As always, more-than-you-needed-or-wanted-to-know, crazy
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/14/10 05:15 PM
Hey G.

Hope today finds you doing good.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/14/10 07:25 PM
Quote:
Healing time: Who IS Gardener? - alone?


Key distinction here: being alone v. being lonely. Two, very different things.

The goal is to be alone, but not lonely. When you reach that, I would say you are "complete." B/c your happiness comes only from within.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/15/10 05:17 AM
A really good thing happened today.
Rather than re-type, I thought I'd just drag it over here

Awoken,
Thank you so much for tonight. Dinner and conversation were wonderful, though too short by far. I felt like we were two old friends!

The show was great. You are one talented and personable musician. Rene is a natural.

Good to see you after the show, too. Thank you for introducing me to Rene.

Hey, in one night, I GALed, 180ed (Jazz), did something impulsive, got out of my comfort zone, got out of the house, and got to meet a true (no-longer-cyber) friend!

Hey, I could get used to this.
wink :
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/15/10 05:20 AM
Tonight's quick journaling of today's recurring thoughts.

I don't miss her.
I don't miss interacting with her.
I don't miss being married to who she became.
I don't miss living with her.
I like living alone.
Posted By: FLTC Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/15/10 01:15 PM
Hey Gardener!

Wow! Another Connecticut poster on the boards. Donna, Gypsy and I are all from the Nutmeg State! What are they putting in the water in our beloved state? WAS additive?

Welcome to the board. I got better advice here than I did from an $185 Fairfield County therapist! I'm about your age as well, and I never thought I'd be mid-50s and divorced. I was ready to end my life when I first started posting here (usually every 10 minutes!) Four years later, including a trip to Iraq, I could not be happier, and all with the help of the great "faceless people" on this board.

How long have you been divorced. It looks like my loony STBXW will take this all the way to a trial for me UGHHH!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/15/10 03:28 PM
Hi, FLTC,
Where in Conn? are you? I'm in Wilton not far Donna and Gypsy, who I've both met. Got divorced last Tuesday 2/09. Bomb was 11/09/08. Been on DB boards since 6/09 (wish I'd found it sooner!). Moved over here to Surviving from Newcomers beginning last month, I believe.

This place saved my sanity and my life.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/16/10 02:15 AM
Monday journaling,

Last minute, spur of the moment dinner with Gypsy, tonight (well, I ate; she watched) since I was up in her area. Despite the coincidence and convenience of my already being there and the last minute invite, she accepted.
I appreciate her graciousness in that.

We had a good heart-to-heart, as always.
Thanks, G-Woman!

Was up in the area to bring some furniture to my beloved DIL. Really glad to see there's no post-D collateral damage with that relationship.

XW's sister (my favorite) lives about two miles from there, so I called her up, too. "Sure, c'mon over!" says she. Had a very good time with her, her H & her S.

I am so glad there appears to be no collateral damage to those relationships, either!

I really love my XSIL.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/16/10 02:25 AM
Sounds like a great day Gardener, that is awesome!

Someday I hope to meetup with some of you fellow db'er's, would love to match some faces to the board names...
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/16/10 03:33 AM
iwitw,
It was a great day, all around. As was last night. Thanks.

And hey, re: meeting up. Conn. and Mass. are pretty close (even from Southwestern Conn., where I am). Where are you?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/16/10 08:47 AM
CTH, one more thought as I reread your post and my reply to it:
Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope
The lady I'm interested in is going through her second divorce.
This has potential red flags all over it! Beware! Be curious! Find out why!

Of course, the irony that this warning comes from the twice-divorced Gardener does not escape me. crazy
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/16/10 10:33 AM
Hey G'Man..

Do you know your voice changes when you GAL? I heard it when you called. It was GAL time for me, too.

So what if the first three places I recommended were closed! Hanging out at an old school pizza parlor was nice. What was neat was being direct. Like you having no interest in going to Starbucks and you needed to gnosh. And me sharing that I couldn't eat because I was still stuffed from lunch. Being straightforward is a beautiful thing. Yay... lots of personal growth and being comfortable in our own skin.

And.. now that your divorce is finalized so much tension and worry have lifted from your face and posture. Like the garden being prepared for spring, the harshness of winter thawed.

Oh yes.. and thanks for suggesting I use a derivation of your name when you call. What an unexpected relief that is. Who'd a thunk a friend would have the same name as the former spouse? What an unexpected relief that is.

Have a great day.

*hugs*

Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/16/10 03:49 PM
Quote:
Conn. and Mass. are pretty close (even from Southwestern Conn., where I am). Where are you?


I am in the south shore Boston area, maybe we can get an Northeast group together or something some day!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/17/10 03:55 AM
Hey, G-Woman!
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
Hey G'Man..

Do you know your voice changes when you GAL? I heard it when you called. It was GAL time for me, too....And.. now that your divorce is finalized so much tension and worry have lifted from your face and posture. Like the garden being prepared for spring, the harshness of winter thawed.
And I saw, heard - and mostly felt - a completely different you: more outwardly relaxed, animated, vivacious. There was a greater, more evident demeanor of fun all about you.
"Yays" all around!
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
Oh yes.. and thanks for suggesting I use a derivation of your name when you call. What an unexpected relief that is. Who'd a thunk a friend would have the same name as the former spouse? What an unexpected relief that is.
Yeah, that works out perfectly, doesn't it?
Posted By: FLTC Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/17/10 11:44 AM
Gardener,

I now live in Bridgeport. Nice apartment building. Better than what I lived in in Iraq, but not quite as nice as my old house in Fairfield!
Posted By: Awoken Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/18/10 03:27 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Tonight's quick journaling of today's recurring thoughts.

I don't miss her.
I don't miss interacting with her.
I don't miss being married to who she became.
I don't miss living with her.
I like living alone.


That sounds good Gardener, and thanks for posting it and giving me more glimpses of my future. I know when we met you said you did a lot of talking, but it was GOOD for me!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/18/10 03:54 AM
Tonight's quick journaling of today's recurring thoughts.

Actively, determinedly thinking positively works. And grows.

As I told my IC last week, "I keep wondering when this NMA will 'go away' and 'become' more of a PMA." And then I realized what a passive stance that was! A waiting for instead of a making happen.

So, fifteen months of pain, negative thoughts and victimhood, begone!
It's working. But it's a constant effort to be aware of the automatic and instantly reframe it with something positive or with its exact opposite. It'll take time. But it's begun.

I feel good about myself, my life, my future.

A couple of recurring painful moments today as I realized - felt - how much I miss my stepson and stepdaughter!
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/18/10 03:57 AM
You are on the right track. Hang in there, and it will get easier.

I am forcing myself to re-focus on positive things when I find myself slipping back into a sad feeling. And, it is helping.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/18/10 04:36 AM
And I almost forgot today's decision.

As I still occasionally ponder the history of my sitch and as I anticipate visiting my best-friend-since-kindergarten this weekend (who knows the entire story), I have decided to re-frame - and to condense - my sitch in my thoughts and in my words:

"What happened?"

"She left.
Her word, promises, commitments and vows ultimately meant nothing. Period."


That's it. That's all. All else is commentary,
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/18/10 05:29 AM
That's a good way to phrase it. People asked me what happened and I start talking and talking and talking.

So I'll try the Gardener editing trick.

"What happened?"

"Three years ago she woke up and decided she didn't love me anymore. She spent most of the rest of the time pushing me away, convincing herself it was for my best interest. The "love til death do us part" thing ultimately meant nothing."

Stole that last part from you. What do you think?
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/18/10 05:46 AM
I'm not even inclined to say that much. Unless it is a really, really close friend, it really isn't their business. More likely to say, things happened, and this is where it had to end up.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/19/10 02:55 AM
Not much of a day,
Some cleaning in anticipation of weekend house-showings.
Bummed out most of the day over now totally depleted financial sitch. This has never happened to me in my life. And based on law/formula in my state she'll credit me with whopping $240/month when house is sold for every month she straddled and strangled me solo with this place since she left 12/08. woo hoo.

One bright side: Somehow realized this evening that I never sent out October or November invoices at end of last season. So at least I'll do that tomorrow. That and get off my butt re: a bunch of neither-of-us-wants stuff that I'll put on craigs list.

Bright side #2: truck loan is paid up with next/final payment in 20 or so days.

Not a good day. Not a bad day. Just pphffftt!! shocked
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/19/10 03:13 AM
Hey Gardener, I know how you feel with the financial picture. Somehow, someday, this will get better..

I stopped by your thread to ask you a question though, as I am approaching meeting with L and STBXW and L, and I am getting anxious about what to expect.

It's basically about trying to get agreement on financial divorce. I want to stay strong for d9 and myself.

Looking back now a bit, how did you manage that?

What should I focus on during this, to keep my emotions in check, etc?

Just looking for some passing thoughts from people that are ahead of me..
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/19/10 04:39 AM
iwitw, I assume that since it's a
Originally Posted By: iwantittowork
meeting with L and STBXW and L,
it's not mediation because it's two lawyers, right?.

Stay away from mediation.

Weddings are about love. Divorce is strictly business.
There's a reason there's a "vs" between your two names on the action, agreement, document: it is adversarial.

As much as possible, stay away from L meetings with you and W present together. The dynamics and emotions that got you there in the first place just poison the atmosphere of the room (This is the main problem with Mediation, BTW.)

OBEY your lawyer unless he advocates something that really goes against your grain as a man. You have to be able to sleep nights.
Don't give a rat's a$$ as to what "anybody might think" of your positions or your demands. Doesn't matter. Besides, they will be getting the one-sided, tainted version from W regardless.

Do not arrive together (wait for the next elevator, etc.); do not depart together. Do not discuss D or meeting mingling in lobby or in waiting room/reception area before meeting starts other than chit-chat pleasantries if possible in your sitch.

Do not speak directly to your wife during such meetings, or directly to her L for that matter. Look to your L for guidance and/or to speak for you. My L even gave me a code word that whenever he used it in addressing me, meant I should simply say "yes," or "I agree." I trusted him and this saved time and the grief of Gardener going on and on (as you know he's wont to do), and questioning and protesting and nit-picking.

Do not speak to W about D or its provisions together in private. Let Lawyers do that. Might be more expensive, but speaking directly to each other about legal issues is a no-win.

You are the better person.
You are/were the more honorable spouse.
You are the better parent.
Remember that. Project that.
Be calm and business-like and professional.
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/19/10 05:37 AM
You got it right - let the L's do their work.

Hey, I had a thread title called:

LOVE=Quest; MARRIAGE=Conquest; DIVORCE=Inquest
Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/19/10 02:33 PM
Good job trying to look on the bright side... you can't control the rest of it anyway so just take care of what you can! I think it helps to feel more empowered.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/20/10 12:19 AM
Thanks G-man!

You right, it is not mediation. However, in my state they MANDATE that you sit down with L and STBXW to try and hammer out agreement before you can even go to a pretrial hearing so that is what we are doing.

I like your keyword thing though, I will bring that up with my L! Thanks!

I plan on not talking to stbxw at all, unless directed to do so..

Thanks again man, I am not looking forward to this, but it is something that must be done..
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/21/10 01:40 AM
iwitw,
Originally Posted By: iwantittowork
Thanks again man, I am not looking forward to this, but it is something that must be done..
You're welcome. Hope it helps.

Journaling,
It's all quite surreal. Today I was chatting with neighbor about house-selling "stuff" when she asked a minor, non-nosey question about expenses or sale proceeds or something. After my non-answer, this:

She: Well the divorce isn't final, yet, is it?
Me: No.
She: Well, then, that can always be addressed in the Final Agreement.
Me: Yes, and I'm sure it will be.

I went back to straightening out a few things in the garage as the house was due to be shown in an hour. A full fifteen minutes later, my two unthinking responses hit me. We are divorced. As of eleven days ago. I'm either just not accustomed to the question - and answer - or, more likely, it hasn't impacted my life at all yet: I still live here alone. Still never see her. Still hardly ever hear from her, Still contributes absolutely nothing to house expenses or house-selling to do's.
Status quo.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/21/10 01:06 PM
I can relate G. Old habits are very, very hard to break.

But, I try to focus on the new freedom my new life will hold. One where I can focus on my kids and myself, without the burden of dealing with W's problems and issues.

In time, we will both find the right someone. God will see to that. And, in the meantime, He will also see to it that our lives are more fulfilled and interesting than ever.

Haven't chimed in much lately, but, as always, continue to lurk.
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/21/10 03:19 PM
Hi Gardener- I hope you're enjoying your weekend.
Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/21/10 08:14 PM
gima,
Originally Posted By: givingitmyall
Haven't chimed in much lately, but, as always, continue to lurk.
Oh, I know that. Me too.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/22/10 10:25 AM
Journaling,

mad mad mad
That's all: just
mad mad mad
Posted By: whiskey.tango Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/22/10 12:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Journaling,

mad mad mad
That's all: just
mad mad mad


Why, why, why?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/22/10 03:56 PM
Hi, whiskey,
Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango
Why, why, why?
Well, this for starters:
Originally Posted By: Gardener
p.s. posting this now (5:12 a.m.) because I just had one of these:
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
Some nights are sleepless.. fretting about the lack of money, will the house sell, how low will I go.
mad mad mad
I'm going to try to get a couple of hours sleep. Thanks for asking, Whiskey. Hope you're doing well. I'll try to catch up later.
Posted By: whiskey.tango Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/22/10 04:01 PM
I get it. The things that squirrel in your head - can't change them but can't turn them off.

It does get better. A lot better. Getting some sleep now will improve things remarkably....

WT
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/22/10 04:54 PM
G,

I understand friend. And I have the same concerns/thoughts.

Try not to feed the snakes on the brain. Have faith. You know He isn't going to give you more than you can handle.
Posted By: Awoken Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/22/10 05:37 PM
(((Gardener)))

Sorry you had a rough night. We've all been there. I go walking when my mind won't shut up. I used to play piano at these times, but I find it brings tears to easily.

I've been keeping in mind something that I've heard GIMA say: "emotion follows thought"

Take this:
grin grin grin
grin grin grin
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/22/10 06:10 PM
Originally Posted By: Awoken
(((Gardener)))

Sorry you had a rough night. We've all been there. I go walking when my mind won't shut up. I used to play piano at these times, but I find it brings tears to easily.

I've been keeping in mind something that I've heard GIMA say: "emotion follows thought"

Take this:
grin grin grin
grin grin grin



And to give credit where it's due, I learned that from Coach.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/22/10 09:10 PM
whiskey, gima and Awoken,

"Squirrels And Snakes And Wolves (at the door)! Oh, My!"

And I'm usually pretty good at keepin' those critters outta my head or on a short leash. But when critters prevent sleep and sleep deprivation fuels critters, well, Perpetual Motion results, as we all know.

Tried but couldn't sleep after whiskey dropped by. Gypsy called a while later. After a couple of rounds of Gypsy talking sense/Gardener pi$$ing and moaning, she finally had had enough and sent me to my gym! wink An hour and a half or so at the gym did me good.

While there, I was thinking that yesterday/today makes it four all-nighters I've pulled in the last couple of weeks. Forty-hour "days" of waking up at about 6:00 a.m. and not even getting back into my bed until 10:00 or 11:00 the following night. Yep, last couple of weeks as I went over it in my mind at the gym.

And tomorrow would be - well, tomorrow will be two weeks since the Big D on Tuesday, the 9th. Hmmm.... smirk

My thread name - like me - is a still a work-in-progress: It's 2010. I'm Solo. I'm just not Soaring, yet.
Thanks, guys. Thank you, G-Woman.
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/22/10 09:14 PM
Hey G sorry to hear about the rough nights sleep, I have thought about that some as well. I often sit in bed and wonder alot about the future or whatnot. No great advice other than I sympathize with you.

Hang in there and get some rest, otherwise you will not be sharp enough to hit me over the head in my thread!
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/22/10 10:13 PM
I sympathize too. I found that a few rounds of computer solitaire at 3am is great way to help shut the mind off...

I hope tonight is better for you-
Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: CityGirl Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/22/10 10:55 PM
Feeling any better? Lack of sleep can be an absolute killer.

Do you like tea? My sister bought me a great tea that is called "sleepy time" and it is very relaxing to sip before bed.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/22/10 10:56 PM
I've only needed it a few times, but a couple of Tylenol PM do the trick for me. Just don't make it a habit.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/23/10 12:33 AM
Thanks, B.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/23/10 12:49 AM
Bunny, CityGirl, gima,

- I'll keep the solitaire idea in mind.

- I love tea: Sleepytime, chamomile, Skullcap (what an herb name! But, try it. It zonks me right out!)

- I usually take melatonin, gima.

But did I think of any of these things last night - or the last few times?
Nope. When I get to thinking at that level, I may be thinking, but I'm sure not thinking straight! crazy

And now, I am off to bed. sleep

First time I ever used that emoticon.^
Posted By: Sister Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/23/10 03:05 AM
Valerian is another nice herbal alternative for getting some sleep. Also "Simply Sleep" is Tylenol PM without the pain medicine.

I like to find a BORING book to put me to sleep.

Sleep tight, Gardener.
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/23/10 12:36 PM
Hey G'Man..

When I'm fretting, thinking about everything, I'll think.. Well I'll just go take care of this right now. The thought of acting on it puts me to sleep pronto (especially laundry).

I've found hugging a pillow close is soothing. I'm almost tempted to sneak in a stuffed animal but.... one thing at a time.

Or you can try getting in a comfortable position, do not move and do not swallow. Old Tibetan meditation trick.

And you can always change the tape in your mind.

*hugs*
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/24/10 03:46 AM
Sister,
Originally Posted By: Sister
Valerian is another nice herbal alternative for getting some sleep. Also "Simply Sleep" is Tylenol PM without the pain medicine.
Yes! That's in my arsenal, too. And did you know that Valium was the Pharmaceutical Industry's attempt to synthesize and magnify Valerian's properties?

And to patent it. whistle
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/24/10 04:17 AM
G-Woman,

1) I like this one.
2) At this point, hugging a pillow in bed somehow just ain't gonna do it for me. Nope. wink
3) I've heard of this...
4) Ah, speaking of changing the tape (or at least screwing with its "mechanism"):

Eckhart Tolle (The Power of Now, A New Earth, etc.) has a good one (has many, actually). Like most seekers, spiritual leaders, religions, he believes that Being is our true birthright, true state and ultimate goal.

Every religion/belief system has a name for what Tolle describes as "a voice in your head that never stops thinking, the stream of incessant and compulsive thinking." He says it is NOT normal but we don't know this because we all have it. *But I digress and ramble: one of his many - and simplest - strategies against this is to challenge it by promoting it. i.e., when your thinking becomes compulsively incessant, ask yourself (your mind), "I wonder what my next thought will be?" And you will detect, experience, a momentary feeling of pure consciousness (being without thinking). And it works! I think of it as a way to stump your own mind. Tolle says it grows in length beyond just momentary with repetition. I haven't incorporated it enough to say I repeat it often, but when the incessant thinking becomes overwhelming, I do employ that challenging little question. Stops that sucker dead in its tracks. Every time. Even if only for a nano-second.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/25/10 03:58 AM
Hmm. I like that Gardener, I have that Tolle book, but have not read it yet, I think I may try that "I wonder what my next thought will be?" when I find myself in thinking overdrive.

Peace, hope all is well with you, and you get some much needed sleep!
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/25/10 01:19 PM
Hey G.

Just wanted to let you know there's an OTC sleeping med. called doxylamine. It's the best for me. I can get it at Wal-Mart in their generic Equate brand. Works great...and with NO hangover feeling.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/25/10 01:22 PM
"The Power of Now" was the first book I read after separating. The friend I was staying with gave it to me. I try to refer back to it occasionally when my brain keeps leaping forward.

Dottie the DB counselor said she could never keep up with me because I was always imagining future problems.

That worked for me when working on our marital finances -- I was always anticipating how W would blow our money and therefore how much I should squirrel away to bail her out -- but it works against you in a separation where you have no control over anything.

The other "Power of Now" concept I'm still struggling with -- am I truly in love with W or just addicted to being in a relationship?

I've thought a lot about our first few years together and that felt like true love. The last five or so felt like I was addicted to the family concept.

I still haven't figured it out.

For me, if I'm faced with a long night at home I take sleeping pills. I've piled so much on my plate at work though that if I don't have the girls or a basketball game I'm usually in there catching up.

I don't know if that's the right strategy either though because when I do end up with long times to just think -- the brain goes in overdrive.
Posted By: bright_new_day Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/25/10 03:24 PM
A good friend gave me the Power of Now to read while I was in the initial stages of separation. I found it helpful, even though I wasn't always able to apply it. It is hard to break old habits. I have Tolle's Stillness Speaks on my desk right now. I may need to pick it up again!

Okay, random quote from Stillness Speaks
"Acceptance of the unacceptable is the greatest source of grace in the world."
Posted By: whiskey.tango Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 02/25/10 04:41 PM
Gardener,

Hope all is going well.

Take care of you,
WT
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 01:07 AM
Well, after lurking and peeking in on many of you without much to offer, thought I'd come home here and ask the group two questions. I may make it two posts.
Today I was thinking about two uncharacteristic exchanges with - and honesty from - then STBXW. The first one was on January 17:
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Four hours later she calls. After a couple of surprising pleasantries absent her now-standard cold-to-disdainful tone, she starts to cry: She's sorry for this. For this strife. For all of this. For her part in turning it into strife. She never wanted this. She sits there sometimes and wonder how it came to this, etc. I calm her down, try to soothe (I know, I know), tell her I have also sat here and wondered how it all - all - came to this.
Siuddenly again on January 23rd:
Originally Posted By: Gardener
I called her. We discussed calmly and decently. For the second time in a week, she suddenly sounds like her again, the one whose been alien-AWOL for 14 months. Go figure.
And the one who last Sunday was suddenly crying to me on the phone about never meaning "to cause all this strife, all this destruction, all this!" Listens to me calmly as I close our conversation by saying,
"This was unnecessary.I was changeable. You were changeable.We were improvable."
To which she replies - get this - that she agrees with me and launches into a regret of "letting so many resentments build up unnecessarily toward the end but I never learned how to voice my opinions, my expectations."....(I told her StepD emailed me saying), "I do know that Mom clearly and regularly communicated unhappiness and concern over your relationship over a long, extended period of time."

Mrs. G. fell silent at that and I said to her, "I resisted the temptation to email back to StepD the first thought that popped into my head when I read that: 'Not to me she didn't!' (Mrs.G), I wish you had told me!"

To which Mrs. G responds,"So do I. I wish I had, too."
I was completely WTF flabbergasted both times. But now I'm wondering: Did I miss an opening, here? An opportunity to say, "Well, it sounds like you've been doing some thinking. Do you want to talk?" Or am I just seeing her on her own roller coaster?

A couple of weeks later, in the courtroom, I was almost tempted to throw her a quick, "It's still not too late, you know," but frankly I was afraid of having read this all totally wrong and getting a, "No way," kind of reply and kicking myself in the arse for opening up that one last time.

Thoughts and 2x4s time. Line up!
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 01:12 AM
G,

I understand where you are coming from but couldn't she speak up if she wanted to? Or did she expect you to beg?

No, friend you didn't miss an opening. SHE did!
Posted By: MrBond Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 01:14 AM
There's no sense in going over what happened before. The WAS will cycle back and forth but those who actually pull the trigger and end the M sometimes feel like they "need to be D" in order to move on.

Wacky stuff. I can't understand it but, whatever. No sense making sense of non-sense.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 01:15 AM
And how are your interactions now?
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 01:15 AM
Originally Posted By: givingitmyall
G,

I understand where you are coming from but couldn't she speak up if she wanted to? Or did she expect you to beg?

No, friend you didn't miss an opening. SHE did!

That's almost exactly what I was thinking. I think you gave her the opening, and she didn't take it. I think she does regret a lot of things, but I think by then she was sure it was too late. And it probably was.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 01:36 AM
Mr. Bond,
Originally Posted By: MrBond
And how are your interactions now?
More frequent since D. Smalltalk. 1040s, taxes, etc, which I told her she can do herself for once, since she got the File Jointly clause she wanted. She responded: Okay, when can we get together, etc. I emailed back, "I don't want to get together with you. Any questions on taxes, call me."

She came over last night to finally give me long-past-due, now court-ordered checks. She knocked until I answered. (would normally knock, open with her key and poke her head in with a "Hellooo?")

She looked like sh!t, frankly. And wouldn't come in when invited. Stayed at the mud room threshold and then asked me to turn off the lights so neighbors won't see her. (?) All in all, I'd almost say she's been fairly meek since the D.

Does that (over) answer your question? whistle
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 01:38 AM
gima,
Originally Posted By: givingitmyall
I understand where you are coming from but couldn't she speak up if she wanted to? Or did she expect you to beg?
No, friend you didn't miss an opening. SHE did!
On the same wavelength, again. As I was typing it, I was thinking, "They're going to say, "she can speak for herself. She can stop it, if she wants.'"
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 01:41 AM
Originally Posted By: MrBond
There's no sense in going over what happened before. The WAS will cycle back and forth but those who actually pull the trigger and end the M sometimes feel like they "need to be D" in order to move on.

Wacky stuff. I can't understand it but, whatever. No sense making sense of non-sense.
Yep. Glad I didn't say anything to whatever it was she was feeling. But, damn, she was surprisingly hard-core blunt and honest both times- for the first time in a year. That's what threw me.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 01:43 AM
VH,
Thanks. As I just told gima I had figured that probably would be the general consensus.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 01:46 AM
Can't wait 'til Gypsy comes in a'swingin' on this one: grin

"She's. Gone. Gardener."

Thanks, everybody.
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 01:48 AM
EDIT: I ain't Gypsy but I'll give it a shot....

Originally Posted By: Gardener
More frequent since D. Smalltalk. 1040s, taxes, etc,

That's because she wants something.

Originally Posted By: Gardener
which I told her she can do herself for once,

My my... Gman... tickle me pink!

Originally Posted By: Gardener
he responded: Okay, when can we get together, etc.

And now you know what she wanted.

Originally Posted By: Gardener
I emailed back, "I don't want to get together with you. Any questions on taxes, call me."

Forget about pink... color me blue!

Originally Posted By: Gardener
She looked like sh!t, frankly. And wouldn't come in when invited.

Really?

Originally Posted By: Gardener
Stayed at the mud room threshold and then asked me to turn off the lights so neighbors won't see her.

Blow me down... the woman does have some shame!

I wouldn't read too much into her behavior any more Gman. Too many braincycles have already been wasted flogging that dead horse.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 02:14 AM
Gno,

Dead on, again. Made me look at a few aspects of it in a different light.
And, as always, humorous. too.

Thanks.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 02:17 AM
And
Originally Posted By: Gnosis
I wouldn't read too much into her behavior any more Gman. Too many braincycles have already been wasted flogging that dead horse.
Yeah. I know. Beatin' it into glue, already! as Gypsy would say.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 03:08 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
gima,
Originally Posted By: givingitmyall
I understand where you are coming from but couldn't she speak up if she wanted to? Or did she expect you to beg?
No, friend you didn't miss an opening. SHE did!
On the same wavelength, again. As I was typing it, I was thinking, "They're going to say, "she can speak for herself. She can stop it, if she wants.'"


My uncle gave me some advice a month or two ago that I didn't fully appreciate until later. His advice was once I was done with the D, don't ever look back.

So, don't torture yourself with her problems and lack of willingness to work on the M.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 03:21 AM
Gardener, I keep wondering if, before this is all through, I should open myself up one final time and say "I don't want a divorce. I never wanted a divorce. If there's one thing I've learned in the time away it's that, yes, we aren't perfect for each other but we are better together than apart and there's too much here to give up without fighting for it."

I mean I've bought in so completely to the giving her time and space and focusing on myself that I haven't shown her a bridge back to me if she wanted it.

But then I remember reading the few success stories on here and most of them only happened after the LBS had completely given up on the R and entirely moved on.

And I also remember how painful it was in October when I opened up only to be swatted away and again in December when we spent several hours together for Christmas and then a week later she pushed me on the D.

Your W knew, had to know, that you would work on the M if she was willing. Now that it's over, she may be changing the history in her head to justify carrying it through to the end.
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 03:53 AM
Hey G'Man..

You know how I look at my marriage.

Something broke.
It wasn't fixed.

"I.. I... I..." ..blame... blame... blame.. yadda yadda yadda..

At some point.. and it's a journey.. probably more so than the divorce process.. at least for me.. I work to let it go. And quite a few may point out that I still don't move quite on.

Yes.. a divorce is emotionally gut wrenching, financially devastating, confidence draining, all while you're losing a partner who's ardently leaving.. it sucks. But it is what it is.

And for your former spouse, it was over for her.. has been.

If there's remorse or embarrassment on her part... it's hers to own.. as is her happiness or joy. And the same is true for you.

It's okay and good to mourn. It's great to know your boundaries. It's great that she didn't walk in... and didn't come any farther than she felt comfortable.

There's a difference between always being nice and being healthy, having boundaries. Did you really want her in the house or were you being magnanimous, a good host? Which is true, your email reply of 'not wanting to get together with the taxes' or opening the home to her?

Take care of you. Do what heals you, keeps you from burning yourself on the hot stove (Dang, it's still hot. Let me touch it again to make sure!). Take care of you first.

*hugs*
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 02:00 PM
Hey, G-Woman,
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
At some point.. and it's a journey.. probably more so than the divorce process.. at least for me.. I work to let it go. And quite a few may point out that I still don't move quite on.
Oh, you move on all right. Admirably so, imo. But for me I think of the movement, not the rate. I'm moving, at least. At last.

As is always the case, so many things were in stages (Bomb, Move out day, changing "brief respite" to full-blown S, "I may not be re-entering our M," "I want a D"), that it's been, among other things, 16 months of "false starts," of being constantly emotionally poised, tensed ("Ready! Set!") and then...no pistol.

And all this while DBing the whole time, trying to convince the starter to never pull the trigger. To put. The pistol. Down.

On D Day 2/09, no more false starts. The starter's pistol went off. I'm just now meandering away from my starting blocks asking, "Go? I can go, now? That was the pistol, right? It did go off? Okay, then. I'm going now... crazy
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
There's a difference between always being nice and being healthy, having boundaries. Did you really want her in the house or were you being magnanimous, a good host? Which is true, your email reply of 'not wanting to get together with the taxes' or opening the home to her?
Both. It wasn't my automatic Mr. Nice Guy response, nor was it magnanimous. Just polite. It was cold. I'd have said the same thing to a neighbor.

Which is true? The "I don't want to get together with you," is true.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
Something broke.
It wasn't fixed.
Yep. But she of the dead cold eyes and look of disdain waits months until we're just about to throw the broken thing away to suddenly (and emotionally) blurt out a "I'm sorry I broke it, why did I break it?" (1/17) and then a "You're right; we could have fixed it, here's what I did to break it, I wish I hadn't broken it." (1/23). And what I heard was genuine. Sincere.

That really effed with my head. Guess it still is effing with my head since I revisit it.

Thanks.
frown

((()))
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 02:07 PM
Originally Posted By: givingitmyall
My uncle gave me some advice a month or two ago that I didn't fully appreciate until later. His advice was once I was done with the D, don't ever look back.
That will be a tough one for now. Time will be its ally, I'm sure. But now? Whew!
Originally Posted By: givingitmyall
So, don't torture yourself with her problems and lack of willingness to work on the M.
I'm not. Really. Just some after-the-fact second-guessing.

Thanks.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/03/10 07:18 PM
Quote:
I'm not. Really. Just some after-the-fact second-guessing.


I still do this at times as well, and it's not healthy for us. We can second guess and look back with 20/20 vision, but it won't change where we are now, or where we are going

Where we are going is a journey of our own, on our own currently.

I hope that the experience we have gained by our past helps to shape our future better than we had shaped our future in past years.. smile If that makes any sense..
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 02:31 AM
IWITW
Originally Posted By: iwantittowork
[I hope that the experience we have gained by our past helps to shape our future better than we had shaped our future in past years.. smile If that makes any sense..
No, I gotcha. Made perfect sense.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 03:13 AM
Okay gang,
Tonights question is one I raised over on Newcomers some months back. No takers. Background: I was talking on Newcomers about sitting in Mediator's office while then STBXW and mediator had a short exchange about what surname STBXW would be using after the D. Well, she didn't like her maiden name, Wouldn't go back to 1st H's surname, though that's her kids' last name (obviously). "No, I'm going to keep Gardener. Mediator: "Okay. Remaining Gardener."

At that moment - and in the back of my mind periodically these last weeks - I'm thinking, "Hello? There's a third person in this room who might want to be at least acknowledged, if not considered, in this little talk: the man whose name it is?!?

I know I'm quite possibly being petty and uncharacteristically chauvinist-sounding, here. but -
Is it unreasonable of me to let my X know that her unilateral decision to retain the surname Gardener is unacceptable to me?

Whaddaya think?
Ladies?
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 03:27 AM
Short answer?

I think it's her choice to make. The choice will affect her life a lot more than it affects yours.
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 03:41 AM
I kept my married name. I've seen women after lengthy marriages revert to their maiden name while all their friends go, "huh?".

Perhaps I'm just a bit too simple or lazy. It's my kids last name. I'm their mom. It's my last name.

Annnnddddd... at least for me.. it seemed a little petty to change it. Like Jeff said, the last name affects me far more than what may or may not appeal to the former spouse.

And the former spouse has no say in the matter.

My choice.

It's kinda like the former spouse demanding the undies back I'm wearing because he gave them to me.

Let it go.

*hugs*
Posted By: courageous wife Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 03:43 AM
I think if there are kids involved, it is easier to keep whatever name the kids have.
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 03:47 AM
XW chose to go back to her maiden name. But I could see not doing it, after having a name for almost 25 years, working under that name, banking under that name, etc., changing could be quite a pain.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 03:53 AM
G-Woman,
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
It's my kids last name. I'm their mom.
Not her kids' last name.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
And the former spouse has no say in the matter.
Understood.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
Let it go.
Letting it all go slowly but surely.
Just askin' is all.
Posted By: CityGirl Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 04:31 AM
I don't plan on changing my name. Honestly, it was a major pain to change it the first time around and it is who I am. I actually never even thought about it until my attny asked me what I wanted in the decree. Our decree states it is my choice on what to do with my name. My H never asked or objected or brought it up with his attny or with me.

While I don't think a name is a minor detail I guess there was so much else to decide and think about it never dawned on me to focus on my name.

If my H really felt strongly about it and wanted me to go back to my maiden name I guess I would consider it. He has never brought it up so I guess it isn't a big deal to him.
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 06:34 AM
Hey Gardener, it sounds like you're wishing for some closure. Hugs.
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 06:40 AM
There was a small bit of amusement in the name change. When XW got her first CS check from the state, she couldn't cash it!
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 11:22 AM
Hey G'Man..

flowmom has the words of wisdom.

All this hurts, especially going from an intimate relationship with your emotional confidant to being nonexistent while your adversary and her lawyer discussed the one thing that has always been yours.

The name, like the assets and marital property comes under the business transaction of divorce. Changing the name while finalizing the divorce aids the woman, making the change legal which allows a swift crossover on all banking, legal documents, etc. The example of Jeff's former spouse illustrates the difficulty, even having the judge's sanction.

And it gives the woman a choice.. whether they wish to be rid of a surname, one of the last remnants of the marriage, or keep it for their own reasons. It's not being viewed as chattel, property.

Is getting upset about her keeping her married name petty? Well, it's a nonissue.

Is getting upset because she and her lawyer discussed it with no regard to you, that you didn't exist, making you feel had no say? Well, you could.. but it's an item of business for her, like "I'm taking the silver." And you're the puppy in the window watching one more silver of hope disappear.

It just hurts. But keep saying and sharing what's on your mind. Part of healing is getting it out there and letting go.

You're giving a new canvas each day to paint. It's your choice how to adorn it, express, neglect. But it's yours... every single day.

Go get'em buddy.

*hugs*
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 12:00 PM
Hi Gardener, I think reality is hitting your W in the face. She is discovering that it "hurts" for her to look at the collaspe of the M. No matter how she may have tried to make you out to be the bad guy, I think she finds herself regretting the failure of the R.....and in her heart, she knows she has to own her part. She knows it could have been saved.

As for the last name......it is sensitive to you b/c you think of it as still "your" last name that she took at the wedding. That's true, but now she thinks of it as "her" name and probably has had it longer than her other names, IDK. But mostly b/c is it such a hassle with changing last names around. The more business papers (insuance, health, SS, etc.) the more mix up it seems to cause. I doubt she is even thinking along the lines you are. I've seen very agry & bitter D women keep their H's last name. The older they are and the longer the M was....the harder it seems to be to change things around. Just my POV.
Posted By: whiskey.tango Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 12:26 PM
It's easy for me, a few years post divorce to encourage you to let this go. However, when I was freshly divorced, I can remember going through similar thoughts, feelings. I took my maiden name back - I didn't want to be among the string of Mrs. whathisnames (he's on #3 now). I took his name as a symbol of our joining our lives, when that was done I felt the only appropriate thing to do was give it back.

I can understand women who have children maintaining the same last name as their kids. Other than that, I don't get it.

Yes, it's a hassle to change your name. So is a divorce. It's all a part of the package.

Feel what you feel, talk about it, sometimes yell about it. Then keep walking forward as you so admirably have. You're doing better than I did, believe me.

Stay strong,
WT
Posted By: bright_new_day Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 12:46 PM
Quote:
I can remember going through similar thoughts, feelings. I took my maiden name back - I didn't want to be among the string of Mrs. whathisnames (he's on #3 now). I took his name as a symbol of our joining our lives, when that was done I felt the only appropriate thing to do was give it back.


I went back to my maiden name also, for pretty much the same reasons. Our lives were no longer joined, so I gave it back to him....and he immediately gave it to the new Mrs. X (formerly the OW!) It wass a hard choice for me because of my kids, but I talked to them about it and even put it that way with ther, that I took his name becuse we were married, but now that we weren't going to be married, I was giving it back. If I had decided to keep it I would have done so because of my kids, and with no thought of how he might feel about it.
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 03:13 PM
Coincidentally I was talking to a woman today who's been divorced twenty years. She kept her married name for the kids' sake. Now she's moved back to the area where she grew up, where folks remember as her maiden name. She wishes in retrospect that she'd changed it at the time of the divorce.

It comes down to choice. Did I want to remain Mrs. X knowing that the former spouse was remarrying ASAP? Eh.. not really.. but who cares. Oddly enough his new wife kept her maiden name.

My married last name is two Waterford patterns and marks me as Irish as they come. My maiden name was a non ethnic name, simple even though folks had difficulty saying and spelling it.

I think it's what fits best. And if it really bugs me in the future, I'll go through the hassle of changing it. But I did get the feeling that the former spouse was not too pleased that I opted to keep the name.

And who knows.. you may have been hurt that she didn't want to keep your last name.

The legal end of divorce is pure business. The emotional part feels whiplash from what is so simply extracted from the soul.

*hugs*
Posted By: kat727 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 04:12 PM
I created my own last name...my maiden name and his last name(no hyphen please). My kids don't have all of it but gosh after 19 years it is/was my name. It is my name and if some day I choose to change it then ok but for now, it is mine.

Oh and I also never went with Mrs so and so because I wasn't. I am Ms so and so because my ex didn't change his last name to match mine. Now if I could just get my alma mater to realize I am a woman and not a man!! smile

kat
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 05:00 PM
re: the name game.

Yeah, it would have been better if you had at least been acknowledged in this question.

I, too, would feel like it was my gosh-darn name and not want X to have it.

But, perhaps it is like the wedding ring--it's a gift, you can't ask for it back.

But it does seems miserable (And in time it won't matter) to have your name permanently attached to someone who is no longer part of your life.

I would be very upset, too.

But if there is no choice in the matter...there is no choice. Reality is.

Sorry
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 05:59 PM
G'Man..

Your question has been very constructive, providing insight from each side.

I read about being able to revert back to my maiden name at the time of divorce, but it was never discussed with my lawyer. When the judge asked, I made the decision.. and did feel a bit of annoyance from my former spouse.

Caring about his feelings caused a nidge of hesitation but my needs and minimizing confusion for the kids was far greater.

I don't think it matters if a couple has kids or not when it comes to changing the name. And just like only women can experience childbirth, so can only men know the betrayal of how their last name is handled in divorce.

If I had no choice, I'd feel like chattel, a second class citizen... and really pissed.
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 06:05 PM
I think I'm probably going to take my maiden name back. Like the others said above, it was a symbol of our union, and now that union is gone. Also, since my kids are older (college and 11th grade), I'm not considered about having the same name that they do. Maybe if they were still little, but not now. I maybe setting myself up for some aggravation in changing my name, so I'm considering myself forewarned now!

Oh- and as for your questions as to why your XW decided to show her real self and sincerity at the last minute- just my opinion as a woman, but it probably didn't mean anything. Those thoughts were bothering her, and she relieved herself of them by taking an emotional dump on you... I'm sorry she did that- it was not fair. She purged herself, and as a result, burdened you with those thoughts.

Keep taking care of yourself!

Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 06:57 PM
Ugggghhhhhh. I'm not ready to see W with her old last name, but truthfully I haven't been ready for any of this. The pattern is -- revelation then stabs of pain -- then wake up the next day with the realization that the train continues.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/04/10 09:48 PM
Amen brother. Keep gettin up and moving forward. Sometimes we just have to make ourselves do what we don't want to.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/07/10 03:45 AM
Journaling and kvetching,

Beautiful day, weather-wise. I spent all of it out front raking, pruning, and primping so the place looks even better when prospects pull up,

A couple stopped by, asked me about the house, wanted to know if they could see it right now. I said you'd have to call broker. And give me 15 minutes to straighten a couple of things up inside. We talked a full twenty minutes and the husband kept saying, "not now. Tomorrow after church." She calls broker. Broker says he'll be right over, husband says tomorrow. Okay, tomorrow at 12:00.

Broker calls me a few minutes later and says, "I have a couple who are 1/2 a mile away. They'll be there in 5 minutes." I tell him I need twenty, he grumbles, couple shows up 20 minutes later.

I make myself scarce like one is expected to do while your house is being shown. I go for a walk.

Not five minutes into my walk, X calls me. "What is going on? Broker just called me and said you refused two showings today!" Not true. I explain and get off phone very quickly.

Now I'm real p!ssed at broker. If I refused two showings today, then who's this couple traipsing through my house with an agent right now?

And the other couple that switched from "right now," to "tomorrow after church"...I was talking to them a full half hour. Broker? All of 30-45 seconds on the phone.

And what's this move? Broker gets upset, so he "tells my ex-wife on me"??! I was livid. Still am.

I called him 3 times. left 3 messages. Then I emailed him telling him to stick around after tomorrow's 12:00 showing because he and I have some things to discuss.
I found this broker. I called him. I chose him. X is out of the loop on this and has not lifted a finger, washed a window or contributed a dime to getting this place ready for sale. Heck, she even managed a clause in the final agreement that I have sole responsibility for upkeep, cleaning, staging and all aspects of handling and expediting sale.

Gonna tell this ba$tard tomorrow that X is co-owner and nothing more other than a signatory at the closing. I'm his client! mad
At least I am for now....

I can't wait to get out of this money-sucking-last-vestige-of-any-connection-with X-house...

Grrrr mumble, mumble. Okay. I'm done. We now return you to your regularly scheduled Surviving The Big D already in progress....
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/07/10 04:51 AM
I don't know if you have any kind of sole-agency or how it works in your neck of the woods... if you can...

Play a little game with the stinker. After the showing tomorrow tell him his "services" will no longer be required. When he asks why you tell him his little dirty underhanded tricks of running around behind your back and whining to X are not acceptable. You do not do business with backstabbers.

Let him apologize and warn him that if he EVER communicates with her behind your back again he can kiss his commission goodbye because that is a breach of contract in your books.

Let the SOB sweat a bit.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/07/10 07:39 AM
Weird, poignant, journaling.
Couldn't sleep tonight, so I watch some TV. Well, not TV, really, since I hate it and don't have TV reception, cable, Dish, nothing. Just watch movies and other DVDs.

Tonight, I'm enjoying one of the chapters of The Beatles Anthology DVD set. At one point, sudden, overwhelming sadness. Boom. Tears, weepy, etc. Out of nowhere. First time in a while. WTF?

I don't know why, but I'm thinking something triggered it so I go back and re-watch last half hour of the chapter I'm on. At one point, there's Paul singing "Yesterday." Fine.

When he gets to the line "Why she had to go I don't know, she wouldn't say." It stung. I started to well up, slightly. Wow. That's what had done it!

I was glad I backtracked and tracked down my suspicion but I was dumbfounded that something like that could suddenly, almost subliminally "get" to me. Especially since I wasn't watching or listening intently: I was paying bills, posting on the boards, etc., with the DVD on in the background.

Go figure.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/07/10 12:24 PM
Originally Posted By: Gnosis
I don't know if you have any kind of sole-agency or how it works in your neck of the woods... if you can...

Play a little game with the stinker. After the showing tomorrow tell him his "services" will no longer be required. When he asks why you tell him his little dirty underhanded tricks of running around behind your back and whining to X are not acceptable. You do not do business with backstabbers.

Let him apologize and warn him that if he EVER communicates with her behind your back again he can kiss his commission goodbye because that is a breach of contract in your books.

Let the SOB sweat a bit.


Gardener, I really like Gnosis' approach here. One question for you: Who does hte listing agreement say the realtor represents? If it's just you, he has likely breached the agreement by having a confidential communication (one he should only have with you) with your X. Probably some state ethical guideline he broke.

Just saying. Might be worth asking him about. And if it gives you a basis to can this guy, get another realtor.
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/07/10 02:00 PM
Hey G'Man..

About the unexpected tears.. your subliminal mind is your buddy. Scientists have found that emotional tears remove toxins and ease stress. So good job!

About your broker.. you're a guy, guys have a different way of handling confrontation. Me.. I'd step back and identify what was so jarring. Being attacked by the former spouse, a sense of dismissal by the broker, dissemination of facts. Cause someone got their info wrong.. and based on your former spouse's track record (emailing your lawyer, etc) it's probably her.

Get out of the emotional stew. Look at the facts. Know what the issue is. Ask the broker if he knows why you received a hysterical call from your former spouse. He'll answer. You'll nod your head. Set your boundaries for what is a good working relationship with him. Both of you agree on the parameters. If he's going to call the former spouse, he has to alert you.

And your broker is your friend; he's helping sell your house.

Remember, when an overblown emotional upset occurs, it's usually a projection of another pain. It's easier to get mad at the broker (and feel like you have some control) than at your former spouse.

Folks are loving the house. GREAT JOB!

*hugs*
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/07/10 02:36 PM
gima,
Yeah, I am going to play hardball and leave him with an: "Okay, clearly I have a decision to make, here..."

As co-owners, X and I have signed everything: Agreement, Property Disclosure, etc. Still, I told him the story from the beginning concluding with, "I am your client, I am your sole contact."

And I would've though he'd know better as he is in the middle of - get this - his fourth divorce! crazy
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/07/10 02:48 PM
Well, if you both signed the listing agreement, then technically, he represents you both. But, that doesn't excuse what he did. Set a boundary with him.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/07/10 02:54 PM
I met a 30-year-old woman in my Marriage Rebuilders class that was on her third divorce. I can't imagine the pain of doing this again. Everyone else at the table except for me and another lady was going through their second divorces.

It makes me wonder if I'll every be able to put myself out there enough to ask someone else to marry me again.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/07/10 03:21 PM
gardener--yeah, this was one of those moments when stuff sneaks up on you and punches you in the gut. it happens. it's part of grief. you're not going crazy, just another step in the journey. and has been pointed out, tears are cleansing and detoxifying. so--it's a good thing, really.
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/07/10 06:30 PM
Grief sneaks up on us, and you'll probably have those moments here and there for a long time. Accept them and embrace them as evidence of your humanity and capacity for love.

Somewhere along the way my H lost his tears and his capacity to grieve broke. It is very sad, and it also walled him off from being able to love me and make himself vulnerable by owning his feelings and needs.

(((Gardener)))
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/07/10 11:43 PM
G-Woman,

I have no problems with unexpected tears, It is so cathartic and I feel so cleansed when I'm done. Just surprised that it's kind of coming back, fairly frequently again in the last few weeks. Of course, I know that "the last few weeks" right now is a phrase that should end with, "since the divorce." That's the reason for their sudden resurgence. Had two good ones today, too, doing yard and garden cleanup with the music blasting. That's something we used to do together all the time, damn near side-by side.

Also, I've got a lot of songs on my i-pod that I've got to purge that set me off.

Coincidentally, this afternoon I asked the broker just that: what he could have said that might have precipitated X's call. He seemed surprised and told me his quick update to her and her response to me kind of fell into the non-sequitur category, frankly.

12:00 showing never showed up, so broker and I had a good, relaxed chat while I puttered in gardens and beds. Says he's completely on board with who his contact and customer is. After yesterday's X call, broker even volunteered that from now on he will correspond/speak with me only and I can be the one to keep X in the loop.

Two interesting (to me) asides. When X called yesterday, I explained the truth quickly and shut down the conversation and she uncharacteristically meekly backed off. Before I clicked off, she made two comments about something in the living room and kitchen which didn't sink in until a few minutes after I had quickly hung up.

X called Friday to ask if she could pick up some paperwork or other. Sure, says I, but I'll be out Friday evening so I'll leave them in the mud room. Next day she's making kitchen and living room comments?

I emailed her this morning questioning her in the house. Told her my very real concerns were threefold:

1) My privacy. I leave things of a personal and private nature out in my room and office when I know there are no showings and I'm not expecting anyone.

2) Boundaries

3) The Final Agreement stipulates your having access with my "prior knowledge" or "advance notification" or some such.

Well, I got a quick apology, it will never happen again along with a several lame reasons why she came inside. Methinks she protested too much.
Busted.

Bad day yesterday. Normally, neither of those things would have gotten me pi$$ed.

Under a mountain of stre$$.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/07/10 11:46 PM
flowmom,
I know. And trust me, when they come I give them full reign until they're spent. No stifling or shaking them off for me. That'll just cause them to accumulate and do damage or find inappropriate outlets.
Thanks, (((fm))).
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/07/10 11:55 PM
Gnosis and gima,
I overreacted to x's non-sensical reaction.
Plus I was having a bad day.
We both signed the realtor agreement, but he's been pretty cool in communicating primarily with me. His own suggestion today was to communicate with me only and leave it to me to keep X in the loop. Besides, he knows
Originally Posted By: Gardener
she even managed a clause in the final agreement that I have sole responsibility for upkeep, cleaning, staging and all aspects of handling and expediting sale.
.X's call didn't help yesterday, that's for sure, but it really was just me overreacting and going off on a bad day.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 12:01 AM
CTH,
Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope
I met a 30-year-old woman in my Marriage Rebuilders class that was on her third divorce. I can't imagine the pain of doing this again.
It makes me wonder if I'll every be able to put myself out there enough to ask someone else to marry me again.
Speaking for myself, I know I won't. I'm 0 for 2. And this second one was, for 15-16 years something I thought never really happened to people except in the movies. I had 15-16 years of mutual bliss until it inexplicably broke.
I'll take that and count myself blessed.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 12:06 AM
Thanks, hm.
Yeah, it's good and necessary grief. I was real intrigued by my having tracked it down to its cause.

Oh, well. My first marriage was a way-too-young, wrong-person-for-all-the- wrong-reasons, marriage, so D was anticipated and a relief.

But this one? Well let's just say I'm 56 years old and until the bomb, a "broken heart" was just something I heard about in songs.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 01:09 AM
Sorry that you are having a couple bad days Gardener, I hope that you can get your house in order and some forward progress.

Not much I can offer, just wanted to pass along some thoughts, stuck in a rut this weekend myself...
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 02:54 AM
Gardener: I can sure understand not wanting to marry again. This is 0 for 3 for me, w/ the first one being physically abusive, the second one verbally and emotionally. After the second I swore I would never get married again. We see where that got me.

I agree, I don't think I will ever marry again. It does make you wonder if you can ever even get out there. I know for both of us, the D's are still very new, and the pain is still very raw. I can relate about the unexpected tears, I have cried more in the last few weeks than in the last six months.

I guess the old addage of time healing all things is true, but part of me also doesn't want to stop loving the SG. Do you feel that?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 03:20 AM
LolaL,
Originally Posted By: LolaL
I guess the old addage of time healing all things is true, but part of me also doesn't want to stop loving the SG. Do you feel that?
Yes, somewhat. As I put it to ClinginToHope a couple of hours ago:
Originally Posted By: Gardener
As I like to say, I will live my life and see who shows up, but right now, a large corner of my heart is still occupied by my pre-Alien Janet.

(sigh).
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 03:51 AM
From the blog of Susan J. Elliott, author of Getting Past Your Breakup:

"But above all else: forget this person you fell in love with. They are never coming back. The person who LEFT YOU is more in line with who this person REALLY is than the person you fell in love with."
Susan J. Elliott
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 03:55 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
LolaL,
Originally Posted By: LolaL
I guess the old addage of time healing all things is true, but part of me also doesn't want to stop loving the SG. Do you feel that?
Yes, somewhat. As I put it to ClinginToHope a couple of hours ago:
Originally Posted By: Gardener
As I like to say, I will live my life and see who shows up, but right now, a large corner of my heart is still occupied by my pre-Alien Janet.

(sigh).


Yeah.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 03:55 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
From the blog of Susan J. Elliott, author of Getting Past Your Breakup:

"But above all else: forget this person you fell in love with. They are never coming back. The person who LEFT YOU is more in line with who this person REALLY is than the person you fell in love with."
Susan J. Elliot

whoa--ain't that the truth!!
Posted By: bright_new_day Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 04:06 AM
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
Originally Posted By: Gardener
From the blog of Susan J. Elliott, author of Getting Past Your Breakup:

"But above all else: forget this person you fell in love with. They are never coming back. The person who LEFT YOU is more in line with who this person REALLY is than the person you fell in love with."
Susan J. Elliot

whoa--ain't that the truth!!


Wow, that is so very true. When we fall in love we see in that person what we want to see in them. We see the good because that is what we are falling in love with. We overlook the bad because that is not what we want to see. When the relationship falls apart, we finally see the bad. It was always there, we just didn't see it. And the WAS does the same, demonizing the LBS so they can justify walking away. They point out all the bad, and never acknowledge that there was any good.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 12:33 PM
As true as those statements are it hurts to think that way. As I look back it seems like an hourglass. The sands of depression kept building up. Her episodes of unhappiness just kept getting longer and longer until finally there was no joy left when we were together.
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 02:22 PM
I agree. I hate to think that the person that SG has become is the person he always was. Rather, I would like to remember the good times we had.

I would hope that on our respective wedding days, although yes we did see all the good in that person, that the good is still there buried. Marriage is about going through the good AND the bad. I think all of us on this board knew there were going to be rough times, and were prepared to deal with it.

I know when I got married, I did not think that SG was perfect. I knew he was flawed, and was prepared to go through anything with him. Maybe it makes me a stronger person because I was willing to do that, and makes him a weaker person. But I don't think that necessarily means that the good in him is not there, nor do I think that the good in the rest of anyone's spouse is not there.

Now, obviously there are exceptions. The abusive spouse, etc. But in general, I think these are just exceptionally weak individuals who let the depression or "life" as it is get the best of them, and decided that the only way to deal with it was NOT to deal with it.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 02:33 PM
Originally Posted By: LolaL
Now, obviously there are exceptions. The abusive spouse, etc. But in general, I think these are just exceptionally weak individuals who let the depression or "life" as it is get the best of them, and decided that the only way to deal with it was NOT to deal with it.


PERFECTLY STATED! I think it is weakness, brought on by depression perhaps. Or, another way of putting it, perceived helplessness.

Perceived helplessness + inability/unwillingness to address issues = BIG PROBLEMS
Posted By: john210 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 02:52 PM
We interrupt thos program..
I have been reading along and have felt all that you are relating here at some point or other. I have also suggested that I will not remarry again since i am also 0 for 2. Getting yourself out there is a whole different story. Eventually, something will click and you will feel it is time...that is what happened to me. But looking back, it is obvious that you have to give yourself a kick in the butt at times or we can talk about our broken heart till we are pushing up the proverbial daisies. Gardener, I am like you...this was my real first broken heart in 47 years....it hurt, it stung it kicked me in the sac.....but like I have repeated elsewhere, I will be damned if I let one person (regardless of who the real SHE was or is) affect me one more day....They should be the ones regretting their actions NOT US! Hang in there...it gets better.

Ok back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 02:52 PM
Hey GIMA, how are you man? got to check in on your latest, hope things are going as well as they can be.

Just wanted to post a quote I saw, which is likely posted a million times on this board, but need to remind myself.

"Today is a gift, that is why it is called the present."
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/08/10 02:59 PM
Originally Posted By: iwantittowork
Hey GIMA, how are you man? got to check in on your latest, hope things are going as well as they can be.

Just wanted to post a quote I saw, which is likely posted a million times on this board, but need to remind myself.

"Today is a gift, that is why it is called the present."


Hey buddy. I am hanging in there. Good and bad. Needed to start a new thread (see link below).

How are you?

Sorry for the hijack Gardener.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/09/10 03:50 AM
John
Originally Posted By: john210
Gardener, I am like you...this was my real first broken heart in 47 years....it hurt, it stung it kicked me in the sac.....
Thanks for a great post from a kindred spirit. It felt good to read, knowing I was understood. And this:
Originally Posted By: John210
but like I have repeated elsewhere, I will be damned if I let one person (regardless of who the real SHE was or is) affect me one more day....They should be the ones regretting their actions NOT US!
Is something I needed to hear and exactly the way I needed to hear it!
Thanks.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/09/10 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted By: John210
but like I have repeated elsewhere, I will be damned if I let one person (regardless of who the real SHE was or is) affect me one more day....They should be the ones regretting their actions NOT US!
Is something I needed to hear and exactly the way I needed to hear it!
Thanks.


Love it, now to keep that implemented on a daily basis is my focus..
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/12/10 08:37 PM
Pre-venting,

X asked this morning if we could meet tonight at cafe "to discuss a few things."
I agreed; what the hell.

Last time she asked that was in Sept (?). At that time, I agreed and said, "well could you at least give me the topic, the reason for this meeting?" She replied, "You know, Gardener, at the last two mediator sessions you started off asking me questions unrelated to mediation. I didn't even know you were going to ask questions, let alone what their topics were going to be. So, no, I'd rather not." That seemed fair enough at the time, so I let it go.

I let it go this time, too. Didn't even ask. Didn't care.

I forget the topic of that last public meeting other than it included her giving me a check for something and as we were leaving, I broached an R talk and she went absolutely, uncharacteristically apoplectic in public in the parking lot and I just left.

So much ambivalence today since that call. Not obsessing (I don't think so, anyway), just wondering from time to time. What could be up? The few times she refused phone or email in favor of a face-to-face in a public place, it usually wasn't good. On the other hand why the hell should I care? And what the hell is there to care about at this point? What "not good" could there be left? I'm fresh out of "not good." Used it all up.

Ambivalence also because the actual, formal D is still so new. That, and the fact I will be sitting down to discuss God-knows-what with one of four people (or all four; who knows?): the good, decent person and partner that I had a genuine love affair with for some 16 years. The alien replacement who selfishly caused so much unnecessary pain, anguish and destruction to our blended family in the last 16 months. The hurting girl who shattered our friendship in so many ways and accused me of vile, fantastical things. And the stranger that I do not know at all.

So, some curiosity, a little compassion and the ever-growing apathy is what I literally "bring to the table" tonight. And, yes, some trepidation (just a habit I've picked because after the big Bomb 16 months ago, she just kept on lobbing one hand grenade after another).

"Trepidation." Nice word. Why on earth should I even feel one iota of dread at this point? "We" are no more. What she says or thinks matters not at all. Given everything she's done, she should dread seeing me.

Ah, the newness of it all.

Now to busy myself: spit'n polish the house for tomorrow's showing, Sit down to rob Peter to pay... um, I mean "pay bills." Then go hit the gym for an hour or two before facing she of the cold, dead eyes and disdainful look.

Will report back tonight - probably on something fairly inane or inconsequential.
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/12/10 09:07 PM
You sound strong G. Good luck tonight.
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/12/10 09:20 PM
Ugh (((Gardener))). No one enjoys the anticipation of a "talk" in a situation where there has been a lot of hurt.

Can you set up a plan of somewhere to go afterwards? To meet up with a friend in a cafe or over to someone else's house? You could cancel if you don't feel like it, but it might be good self-care to invite some warmth into your life after the anticipated "deep freeze" interaction with your X. If there is a sting tonight, let someone else help you soothe it.
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/12/10 09:28 PM
I think that is a good idea on two fronts. First, as FM says it will serve as some added support. Second, you can put a time frame on the meeting so that if you need an out, you have one...okay I can meet but only for so long, I have plans. That way you can make a graceful exit if needed.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/12/10 11:57 PM
antlers, flowmom, LolaL,
flowmom, good idea.
Thanks.

I'm late. Bye.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/13/10 12:34 AM
Sorry I didn't chime in in time. If it's a topic you don't want to discuss, you don't have to stay. You owe her nothing anymore.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/13/10 01:13 AM
Well....

That went quick and quite well but, in the greater context of the last 18 years, rather unfortunate.
But, hey...Consequences. Consequences.

I arrived to find her sitting at a table twittering and texting away. She looked up:

X: Hi, Gardener!
G: Hi, what's up?
X: Nothing, really.
G: (sitting down) I'm not sure I understand.
X: Well, since you had said once in the Mediator's office that you wanted to still be friends, I thought it would be nice to...start.
G: (Pause) I think you misunderstood. You had used the word "civil" and I said I hated that word but I would always act friendly and polite. ACT friendly.
X: Surprised. Silence.
G: X, you ended our friendship. The way I view it, if any friend - (citing three of mine:) friend 1, friend 2, or friend 3 - any friend demonstrated to me - proved to me - that their word, their promise, their commitment, let alone vow, was meaningless, worthless, I would consider that friend to have ended our friendship at that point. You ended our friendship many times in many ways throughout this. You've made it clear that you are no longer my friend and I don't want to be yours.
X: Well, um, I guess I certainly misunderstood that.(coversation @ mediator's)
G: I'll act friendly and polite if we find ourselves at a family function or something. Friendly and respectful.
X:(some kind of mumbled comment which felt like a "how big of you" sarcasm.) I ignored it, smiling.
G: X, friends don't do the things you've done.
X: Alright. I'm going to leave! I didn't come here to get beaten up.
G: I'm not beating you up, just answering your question. I'm done.

Chatted friendly and politely about taxes:
G:I'll have my stuff ready Sunday and will bring it to you.
X: No, I'll come to the house and get them (this is the third time she's shot down me coming to her new apartment) But I let it go.
G: No, I don't want you to come to the house. We'll meet here.
X: Well, okay, then
G: -Getting up- Alright, then. Goodbye.

As I went out the main door to the parking lot, she was a few steps behind. I held the door for her and said, "Goodbye, X."

X: No reply.

I'm just glad I got a chance to say a couple of things I've been really wanting to say. But no opportunity ever arose and I would not "force fit" them into any old conversation. I had hoped for months the right opportunity would present itself (especially since I had had them damn near memorized). Tonight it did.

Done.
And when the house is finally sold?
DONE!


Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/13/10 01:28 AM
Good job brother. You did well.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/13/10 01:32 AM
Thank you. From you, that means a lot.
p.s. I thought so, too. grin
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/13/10 01:56 AM
Nicely done Gman. I'll admit I was worried about you before.
Now? Not so much.

You're gonna be darned fine!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/13/10 02:11 AM
G,
Thanks (oh ye of little faith)!
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/13/10 02:17 AM
Gardener, I'm glad that you had the chance for some closure on that. I think it's a bit wierd how she invited you if she just wanted a friendly visit confused
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/13/10 02:20 AM
She trying to assuage her guilt. Not surprising.
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/13/10 02:20 AM
Woohoo...
Originally Posted By: Gardener
G,
Thanks (oh ye of little faith)!

Would that be a hint of sarcasm? My, my, how thou hast grown.


Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/13/10 02:34 AM
fm & gima,
Originally Posted By: flowmom
I think it's a bit wierd how she invited you if she just wanted a friendly visit confused
Originally Posted By: givingmyall
She trying to assuage her guilt. Not surprising.

Yep. And wants it both ways.

I still think she got two mild cases of pre-divorce remorse (posted 1/17/10 @8:13 beginning with "Four hours later..." and on 1/23/10 @3:31.) Don't know how to link 'em, or I would but it doesn't matter. They were curious and telling outbursts but she didn't put on the old "big girl panties" and act on it if she was telling the truth those two times.

Doesn't matter anymore, anyway.
Posted By: bright_new_day Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/13/10 03:27 AM
Very nicely done! :::standing up and applauding:::
Posted By: Awoken Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/16/10 03:40 AM
Well done Gardener. (((hugs)))
I hope you sell the house soon.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/17/10 03:55 AM
Funk-journaling,

Haven't posted here or elsewhere, much, in two or three days. The ol' Funk hath returneth. Don't know why, actually.

The ever-precarious financial sitch doesn't help.

I've been blasting music evenings in an attempt to lift the ol' spirits.

It's kind of a no-win cycle: rattling around in this old house full of memories every night alone. And it's no longer a home, just a house, just a building.

The pressure of carrying it all alone still leaves no extra dough for GAL activities, new clothes, etc. So here I stay most nights. My season is starting now AND picking up so that promises to ease things financially. Made 60th and last loan payment on truck today, woo hoo!

But I figured it was the music. The ipod on shuffle. Too many songs I can't bear to hear and even though I skip over them as soon as I hear them, their thought, the memory they invoke has already fired up and taken flight by the time I banish them with my Sound Dock remote..

So tonight, I hooked the ipod up to the computer and did some long overdue deleting. Two, in particular had really funked me out, so I deleted them, but put them on Facebook for posterity and catharsis.

I'll be alright. Even after it's all "over" D-wise, it's not really over. Time. Time will take care of it.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/17/10 04:18 AM
I hear you Gardener. I'm actually glad not to be in the house now. I try never to go in. It confuses the girls, but I can't stand the memories either. I soooooo want her to sell that place.

Music is a strange trigger.
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/17/10 04:54 AM
(((Gardener))) sending you some prosperity vibes...
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/17/10 05:29 AM
Thanks, CTH.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/17/10 05:29 AM
Flowmom, I sure need 'em!
Thank you.
Posted By: BigJohn Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/17/10 07:51 AM
Gardener,

I take it you played a little Barry White the other night to brighten the mood? smile I heard Rick James ("Superfreak") on the radio the other day and it made me think about our posts a few nights back over at IWITW's thread. Good stuff. It reminded me of my life before my W, which wasn't too bad after all- though I'm not completely thrilled to (apparently) be starting all over again at 42, not to mention the hurt to the kids and the financial wipe out. Just gotta keep your chin up and realize things will get better for us. Hang in there my friend.
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/17/10 11:08 AM
Hey G'Man..

I know a guy who gets out of the house when the 'funk' hits, goes to the grocery store, walks around the mall... just to be around people.

Having a 'funk' isn't bad, crying is great.. getting stuck is the tough thing. How well I know that one!

Good job on deleting the 'trigger' songs! It must make listening to music easier. Congratulations on completely owning the truck. That's a few more bucks in your pocket. And hurray for spring.. allowing our Gardener to spring back into action, doing what brings bucks and heals at the same time.

Woo hoo!

*hugs*
Posted By: FLTC Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/17/10 04:58 PM
Gardner,

I realized why I don't visit the sites of others much any more......it just rips my heart out. I may have stuff to add, but it almost makes me physically ill to read about you, and so many good people, caught up in the emotional "wood-chipper" (another Connecticut reference!) that is divorce. I know the wrenching sadness that I went through, from July 31, 2005, until I was "born again" by deploying to Iraq in June of 2007. Almost two years of INCREDIBLE sadness. As many people here know, I actually tried to check out with some beer and prescription medication. All I wanted was for the pain to go away. I even wrote notes to my kids, asking them to forgive me for what I was about to do, which I keep on my hard drive to this day.(Imagine going to war to SAVE your life? I don't recommend this course of action very often, but it worked for me!)

At times, when I drop my S12 off at STBX's house, and he turns to wave goodbye to me, I am overcome with a tsunami of grief that it didn't work out for my kids, and that I can't just go out in the road and play catch or shoot baskets with him EVERY night. I still cannot look at pictures from when the kids were small. It's overwhelming. I still see him laying on the bed in July 2006 when I said I was moving out, and he was inconsolable. If I had a violent streak, it would have been awful!

But....life goes on. I have been blessed since returning from Iraq. My life is so full of hope now, but I read these posts, and I see the absolute devastation that divorce brings. It's one of the cruelest emotional acts that anyone can do to another human being. So many people seem to move on just fine, but I was one of the smoldering wrecks on the highway of death caused by divorce, so reading your thread and other, just churns up bad sediment!

I'm sorry for your situation. I am glad to see, however, that you turned to bench presses instead of 16oz arm curls!
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/18/10 12:53 AM
Oh, Gardener man--

your post frightens and saddens me. Rattling around in the house of memories. As I am about to make the choice to do.

The Funk has a life of it's own. Say hello. Acknowledge it. It's there. But maybe you can gently move it to the background.

Music: all I can say--is be careful of it! I have barely listened to music since August 1st. I dunno--maybe some Black Sabbath? Something to really pound your head against.

And I burned some pictures the other night. Cathartic.

Congrats on the truck--that will help.

Getting out and GAL is so important--what in your area is free/cheap? lingering over a cup of coffee at the local Barnes/Noble?

I think of you every morning when I take my multi-vite and fish oil capsules! (you posted on nutrition once, lest you think I am a complete wingnut!)

Take care of yourself. Time. Time. Time.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/18/10 11:53 AM
BigJohn,
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
Gardener,I take it you played a little Barry White the other night to brighten the mood? smile
No not that night. I do have another "guilty pleasure" that I rarely admit to, though: Abba! (Shhh. Don't tell anyone.) And I did crank up some - Oh my God - 35-37 year-old Bachman-Turner Overdrive. Like many bands, their first two or three were great; subsequent ones kind of formulaic and cranked out. But I, II and Not Fragile were real a$$-kickers!
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
I'm not completely thrilled to (apparently) be starting all over again at 42, not to mention the hurt to the kids and the financial wipe out
I don't blame you. But I must say that I started over at 39 after 1st D and wound up with over 16 years of love, life, and happiness that I never dreamed possible. But at 56, I'm not overly thrilled at the prospect again, nor the financial wipeout. At least the "kids" are all in their 30s, settled and pursuing their lives.

Gypsy,
Amen on all counts. Funk ain't always bad, crying is cleansing and deleting the Gardeners' soundtrack was definitely overdue. Though today a song came on that I hadn't deleted since it had no association with us: Missy Higgins' Where I Stood: "Cause I don't know who I am, who I am without you. All I know is that I should. And I don't know if I can stand another hand upon you. All I know is that I should." Got rid of THAT one, too.
And the truck payments? Thank God!

FLTC, I don't visit many threads anymore for the same reason. I stay away from Newcomers because it is so emotionally draining except for a few who I've grown close to. Mostly I stay here at Surviving, though I really should visit all of your threads more often.
And I'll answer your brutal candor with brutal candor. I had a plan in mind right after New Years' myself. New Year's Eve was particularly rough. Just couldn't take it anymore. Even thought of inviting my brother over the next morning on the pretense of going out to breakfast so he'd be the one to find me, not X or son. Planned on putting a note on bedroom door saying, "Don't come in. Just call 911. I'm sorry." But I fought hard out of that by getting active, envisioning my children's ensuing months and years in the aftermath and by "revisiting" the whole aftermath when a friend of mine did it by pistol in his garage in '08. Back then, I anguished over "Why?' and "Why didn't he reach out?" and "Did I miss any signals?!" Got myself out of a real dark place I don't ever want to be in again.

Avermont,
I have gotten better (for the most part) at squashing the funk when it appears. And yeah, I go more now for the Sabbath, Zeppelin, Ramones, and Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers' scream-alongs wink My best friend, Anthony (R.I.P.) was their bass player. Those and my always-preferred Mountain with my favorite rock guitar virtuoso, Leslie West: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc02XRNR7jo Borders, Starbucks, the gym. I AM getting out somewhat, not to worry.
And God knows what shape I'd be in if not for the exercising and the 20+ supplements a day!

And, Lord, yes: Time. Time. Time.
Don't know what I'd do without you people sometimes. Thanks.

Today's Bummer (which I am NOT going to take personally) comes from Best Sister-In-Law. She and I have always been close, she stays neutral and I even visited her one night last week. Now, admittedly, I've posted some pretty sappy -but poignant -videos on my Gardenerman fb page. But on my regular page, I've only occasionally quoted some lyrics that reflected my mood of the day or the sitch. Posted both my sadness and gratitude for many wonderful years on D Day. Nothing bad. SIL and I even chatted fairly often on fb right up until yesterday - about the weather, the storms and her dog!.

Today's message: "Hi Gardener -

I'm sorry - but I am un-friending you on FB. This way you can post whatever and I can feel comfortable that I am not being "unfaithful" to my sister. She still comes first with me and I don't want to know more than I already know about you two.

Have fun on FB - and be kind to my sister!!"

Not taking it personally. She just may feel awkward.
No assumptions: she may still think the world of me for all I know.
Although we'll see if she replies to my response asking her to please clarify what she might have seen there that she deemed offensive, because I would never offend her.

Oh well. On it goes.(and, as usual, on and on I go!) And once again, here it is 8:00 am and I haven't slept a wink tonight. crazy
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/18/10 03:40 PM
Hey G'Man..

Are you still in counseling? Having a close call like that deserves to be examined. And meds and/or levels checked.

Why question your sis-in-law about FB? She's probably reacting to her own sister's dismay and feeling caught in the middle. It's only a bulletin board and seeing each other face to face is better than anything. I can see respecting her choices and leaving an open door. No pressure.

Time allows everyone balance.

*hugs*

PS.. at least with the season starting you'll be working so hard sleep won't be an issue. Anxiety creates its own set of problems, lack of sleep one of them, that really screws up the emotional balance.

Remember the tricks to stop the obsessing thoughts. Remember, anxiety takes a kernel of truth and magnifies it to the worst possible outcome.

*hugs*
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/18/10 04:10 PM
I doubt SIL feels offended by anything. She just doesn't want to wonder if she should alert your X to things that you've posted. I wouldn't reply. Over time she can decide what kind of R she wants with you.
Posted By: rockedworld Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/18/10 04:44 PM
Gardener,
I haven't checked your thread in a while... find this forum a bit painful to go to, with how close this came to being my reality. But, wanted to see how you are doing.

I am sorry to hear of the on-going roller coaster ride, and I am particularly pained for you to hear where you were at New Year's Eve. I had serious thoughts myself at certain points in my sitch. Thank God the thought of my children living with the aftermath of that put a stop to that.

I have kept up with your sitch almost from the beginning, and I admire you for how you have coped with such a devestating time in your life. You have such inner strength... which I know you don't always feel... but that will get you through. It sounds like you are making good choices about where to go from here.

I agree with the others not to take SIL's FB thing personally. Family get put in a difficult position with D, and she probably does not know how else to handle it.

BTW... i LOVE old BTO (and ABBA too, if truth be known...) smile Picturing you rockin' out in your house makes me smile! smile

Hang in there~
Posted By: Coach Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/18/10 05:46 PM
A couple of songs to get you back on track:

"I Don't Care Anymore." - Phil Collins

"Times Like These" - Foo Fighters

"Bring It On" - Lenny Kravitz

Use the music to create new triggers.

Cheers

ps ABBA ???? Really???? Check Man Rule 213(k) for clarification. cool
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/18/10 07:38 PM
Hey G-man, I have not been around for couple days, for some of the same reasons others posts.

Your last couple posts scared me man, you are worthy of living a great live that YOU decide.

I think sitting around the house all the time is a bad precedent, you need to get out and do SOMETHING. I have at times, just gone to the local Borders or Barnes and Noble, couple bucks for coffee, read some magazines and people watch, you'll realize there is life after this, and you can have a great life.

Find some local places to hike, and watch the people, and the kids having fun, and not because you are missing that right now, but because there is more out there for you see and do and find that this life is too precious to just wait in the house.

You are a strong, compassionate, caring person who can build a life that is full, fulfilling and rewarding! There is only one person that can help with that, and that's you.

Keep your head up, you can handle it! Love this weather in the Northeast, I can't wait to get outside and just watch the clouds go buy and begin building my future for me!
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/19/10 12:20 AM
FB is the spawn of the devil, I swear!! There are too many posts about FB causing way too much emotional turmoil.

I secretly love ABBA and Culture Club. Maybe I could start listening to music again with The Clash and Sex Pistols. At least that music is pre-X

I'm sorry to hear how close to the edge you were at NYE. Been very close myself. I make a few key friends repeat to me every few days why I should keep on living check in with your friends often.

Also find a more cheerful on line or real life group to connect to. I am grateful beyond measure for everyone here, but it is emotionally draining

vitamins. Robins. Exercise. Snowdrops. The earth keeps turning.

Peace.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/19/10 02:51 AM
G-Woman,
Still in counseling, but made no emergency call to IC; I was very, very distraught emotionally but knew I could -and had to - work, to wrestle this through on my own to make sure it would never come back. It was a night, for sure.
Emotional/adaptive child "victim" wound up submitting to rational, functional adult "victor", as I just put to gnosis in the .alt. It was a night for giving the demons full reign and then reigning their asses in. In subsequent IC, session, IC thought the duality of the struggle guaranteed that the stronger, resilient adult would prevail. I was in depths of anguish and despair, but a stronger part of me was rally pi$$ed that I was there - or allowing myself to go there. Also just told Gnosis that being to Hell and back confirmed that I still knew the route.
Sometimes you just gotta roll up your sleeves, get down in the mud with the demons and rassle 'em, no matter how long it takes. I came away stronger.

Blood work is done every 6-8 weeks no more D meds, just amino acids and other neurotransmitter supplements.

SIL? I just questioned the sudden timing after couple of days of friendly chatter. My only question was a sincere, respectful, please tell me how I may have offended you who I would never knowingly offend.

Not taking it personally; no assumptions.

That door stays open; she and I "got" each other the moment we were first introduced years ago...been that way ever since.

Last night was money stress. More background noise than obsessing. Wasn't anything I could do about it anyway, so I didn't fight it or avail myself of any resources or remedies. I just busied myself with other things and the night flew.

Thanks, Gyps.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/19/10 02:55 AM
Originally Posted By: flowmom
I doubt SIL feels offended by anything. She just doesn't want to wonder if she should alert your X to things that you've posted. I wouldn't reply. Over time she can decide what kind of R she wants with you.
Exactly. I'll do whatever sentimental soul-baring posts I feel a need to do here or in other 'alt page. No more mention of M, D, or regret on regular fb page.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/19/10 03:03 AM
Originally Posted By: Coach
A couple of songs to get you back on track:

"I Don't Care Anymore." - Phil Collins

"Times Like These" - Foo Fighters

"Bring It On" - Lenny Kravitz
I will (re)check 'em out.

Use the music to create new triggers. .You're right

Cheers

ps ABBA ???? Really???? Check Man Rule 213(k) for clarification. cool
I have. It's right before MR# 213(j): disco. Another sinful sentimental secret pleasure.
Hated it back in the day, though. Go figure.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/19/10 03:17 AM
iwitw,
Originally Posted By: iwantittowork
Hey G-man, I have not been around for couple days, for some of the same reasons others posts.

Your last couple posts scared me man, you are worthy of living a great live that YOU decide.

I think sitting around the house all the time is a bad precedent, you need to get out and do SOMETHING. I have at times, just gone to the local Borders or Barnes and Noble, couple bucks for coffee, read some magazines and people watch, you'll realize there is life after this, and you can have a great life.

Find some local places to hike, and watch the people, and the kids having fun, and not because you are missing that right now, but because there is more out there for you see and do and find that this life is too precious to just wait in the house.

You are a strong, compassionate, caring person who can build a life that is full, fulfilling and rewarding! There is only one person that can help with that, and that's you.

Keep your head up, you can handle it! Love this weather in the Northeast, I can't wait to get outside and just watch the clouds go buy and begin building my future for me!
You're right on all counts. Fear not, I am back to hiking, back to Borders and back to chatting/flirting after a long hiatus. Just fun and affirming, though: I am in no way "relationship-ready", as they say and won't be/don't want to be for a while. Thanks for your concern and suggestions. But the only way to spare you guys bothersome, negative posts is to NOT write them.
And usually I NEED to write them. We all do at times, and they are often just so much venting and almost self-spewing, rather than red-flags and intervention time (but I always appreciate - and marvel at - how quickly the cavalry charges in when needed!). Very special people here at DB. Very special.
I have my moments (don't we all?) but while the progress may often be slow, it is, at least, more often than not in the right direction.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/19/10 03:26 AM
Gardener--

I think many of us have been in that dark, frightening place. Mine was on Thanksgiving. And I also found this to be true!:
Quote:
I was in depths of anguish and despair, but a stronger part of me was rally pi$$ed that I was there - or allowing myself to go there.

Enjoyed your thoughts on inner child/adult interactions. There's a whole section--with a slightly different perspective than I've seen before--in the Susan Anderson book, chapter on Rage. Since you're obviously well-versed on the concept, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this chapter/exercise. When you get to it.

You're a wise man.
Posted By: poet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/19/10 04:15 AM
Hello Gardener,

Just waving at you from afar.

poet
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/19/10 06:43 AM
I like the idea of using music to create new triggers. Music really affects my mindset and I think it might be time to use that to my advantage. Thanks Coach smile

If it hasn't already been done it would be cool to have a LBS playlist thread...with the focus on music that has a message of positivity/hope.

I think it's great that you can vent here Gardener. So many men don't give themselves any outlet to express their emotions.
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/19/10 12:01 PM
Bill,

Originally Posted By: Gardener

Still in counseling, but made no emergency call to IC; I was very, very distraught emotionally but knew I could -and had to - work, to wrestle this through on my own to make sure it would never come back. It was a night, for sure.
Emotional/adaptive child "victim" wound up submitting to rational, functional adult "victor", as I just put to gnosis in the .alt. It was a night for giving the demons full reign and then reigning their asses in. In subsequent IC, session, IC thought the duality of the struggle guaranteed that the stronger, resilient adult would prevail. I was in depths of anguish and despair, but a stronger part of me was rally pi$$ed that I was there - or allowing myself to go there.


I call bullshit on the remark. It sounds great, the inner child struggle, the adult taking control. A triumph. But only works because you're still here.

I'm really glad you made it through that difficult time. I've had that experience where the pain of living almost trumped the joy, love and responsibility of parenting, being there for myself, family and friends. To be honest, I am angry and hurt to the core to your approach to this. And it's really not my place to harangue. Aside from our friendship, it triggers something within my own experience.

So, Bill. Bullshit. If alcohol is involved, even worse. Suicide happens, near suicide happens because the individual doesn't have the skills, the tools to deal with the emotional crisis. Or the support, or knowing there's support, the right support to survive, recover and deal with agony and issues.

I'd toss that counselor who's an hour or so away and find someone closer who doesn't reaffirm what you want to hear. And if the 'natural' path isn't working, opt for the pharmaceutical. I know I'd rather not be regulated by prescription drugs.. but they do their job. And it works because I'm doing the other work.. learning how to be healthy, how to have boundaries, how to live and forgive myself.

We all have demons. We all have skeletons in our closets. We all have fears. You came too close.

Get the skills, not the jargon, to deal with the issues. Drop the romantic notion that you had 16 years of the best life had to offer. It was great. It broke. It didn't get fixed.

Live the life you walk, not what you see in the clouds.

*hugs*
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/19/10 07:32 PM

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

EVERYTHING Gypsy said!

And Gypsy, please, when you see him again in real life... SMACK HIM UPSIDE THE HEAD!!!! because I'm too far to do it myself.
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/19/10 10:13 PM
Gardener, I just want to share that I started taking antidepressants today. If you knew me and my super-duper-alternative-health-foody background since birth, you'd know that that is a huge step for me. I went through years of (needless?) agonizing depression in my 20s and I promised myself I'd never allow that again. But I'm not satisfied that I'm doing enough to get out of the pit that being abandoned has left me in. So I'm taking the drugs as an experiment to see if it helps me to start DOING and truly work on GAL. 'Cause I haven't been great at it so far. Part of what gives me hope is that I've seen friends start antidepressants and that just gave them the boost they needed to start taking concrete steps to make their lives better.

Anyway, sorry for talking about myself in your thread. I don't know the background to the previous posts, but it sounds like your friends are concerned about you, therefore so am I. It breaks my heart see how desperate our forum friends like mb28 and DestinyUnknown have become, and that's partly what motivates me to try something new.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/20/10 03:24 AM
Kathleen,
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
I call bullshit on the remark. It sounds great, the inner child struggle, the adult taking control. A triumph. But only works because you're still here.
Thank you for a very concerned response and for our talk today. I understand and appreciate your points and value our nascent friendship more than you know, more than I've told you. And I feel bad having upset you.
As I've mentioned, I became acquainted with and interested in the entire inner child concept since being introduced to John Bradshaw's work in the early 80's. He was a pioneer in concepts that are now mainstream. The bullshit is your right to call and I appreciate the bluntness.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
But only works because you're still here.
That's exactly right, in my view. It was the only night like that that I've ever experienced in my life and in retrospect, I value having gone through what I did that night and where and how I wound up in the end.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
I'm really glad you made it through that difficult time. I've had that experience where the pain of living almost trumped the joy, love and responsibility of parenting, being there for myself, family and friends. To be honest, I am angry and hurt to the core to your approach to this. And it's really not my place to harangue. Aside from our friendship, it triggers something within my own experience.
I didn't know you've had a similar experience. When? What was your approach?
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
So, Bill. Bullshit.
Okay. Got it the first time. wink
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
If alcohol is involved, even worse.
I don't drink alcohol.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
Suicide happens, near suicide happens because the individual doesn't have the skills, the tools to deal with the emotional crisis. Or the support, or knowing there's support, the right support to survive, recover and deal with agony and issues.
I understand. I found I possessed skills and tools I wasn't aware of during that hellish experience.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
I'd toss that counselor who's an hour or so away and find someone closer who doesn't reaffirm what you want to hear. And if the 'natural' path isn't working, opt for the pharmaceutical. I know I'd rather not be regulated by prescription drugs.. but they do their job. And it works because I'm doing the other work.. learning how to be healthy, how to have boundaries, how to live and forgive myself.
Not to worry: like I said this afternoon I am switching counselors for several reasons, not the least of which is the one you mention. I was still on meds at that point, and no longer am and am doing fine.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
Get the skills, not the jargon, to deal with the issues.
I hope I misunderstand you here: I am working - and have been working - hard, like we all have or are still. I've made real progress. Am I done? No. Do I have more to work on, to deal with and come to terms with? Oh, yes, you betcha.
Am I just spouting jargon? No, I am not.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
Drop the romantic notion that you had 16 years of the best life had to offer. It was great. It broke. It didn't get fixed.
It's not a notion. I lived it. It was great. It clearly did break, but I didn't know it; I wasn't told. That's why it's called the (unexpected) Bomb.

You're so much further along in this process than I am, Kathleen, and as such, you've generously shared with me a lot of valuable insights, perspectives, common sense and acceptance. These have helped me, to be sure. But I still hurt. I don't know how one drops hurt. So I keep working, and falling back and moving forward, and falling down and getting up. In the real world, my real world. Not in the clouds.

My bottom line for this post after already having talked to you today is
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
To be honest, I am angry and hurt to the core to your approach to this. And it's really not my place to harangue. Aside from our friendship, it triggers something within my own experience.
to assure you that I regret -and would never - knowingly or purposefully anger you or hurt you to the core my friend. Perhaps I shared too much. And, besides: from what you've told me about Radical Forgiveness, don't you owe me an apology for angering you and hurting you to the core? whistle laugh

Thank you, (((Kathleen))).
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/20/10 03:26 AM
Gnosis, if you'll accept a verbal on-the-phone smack upside the head as just as good, consider it already done. wink
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/20/10 03:33 AM
hmama,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
Gardener--

I think many of us have been in that dark, frightening place. Mine was on Thanksgiving. And I also found this to be true!:
Quote:
I was in depths of anguish and despair, but a stronger part of me was rally pi$$ed that I was there - or allowing myself to go there.

Enjoyed your thoughts on inner child/adult interactions. There's a whole section--with a slightly different perspective than I've seen before--in the Susan Anderson book, chapter on Rage. Since you're obviously well-versed on the concept, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this chapter/exercise. When you get to it.
Thanks, mama. Sorry you were there, too. Proud of your strength and inner resolve in overcoming it, too. The Holidays sure don't help such despair, do they? The Susan Anderson book is next. Working through Susan Elliott right now. I'll let you know when I'm on Susan Anderson and get to that section.
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
You're a wise man.
Oh, ppffftt! crazy But thank you (the line forms to the left with those who disagree with that assessment) laugh

Peace,
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/20/10 03:36 AM
Hi, poet,
Originally Posted By: poet
Hello Gardener,

Just waving at you from afar.

poet
Right back atcha. Thank you.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/20/10 03:53 AM
fm, I was - and always have been - the same way, since back when the common derisive term for it was "health nut"

But I took those meds. As soon as I was diagnosed. I wanted relief, I wanted out. Fast!

They took a few weeks, but they worked. A few more weeks and my life suddenly became, "wait a minnit! I remember this guy!"

With that relief, I started research. A lot. Mostly The Ultra Mind Solution. I have a great Family Physician. She's mainstream,not naturopathic or alternative, but she's knowledgeable in it and respects it. She did tests. I was woefully low in a few neurotransmitter-supporting Amino Acids.I started taking them. They are OTC and cheap and they just boosted things further, so Dr. weaned me off ADs.
Originally Posted By: flowmom
Anyway, sorry for talking about myself in your thread. I don't know the background to the previous posts, but it sounds like your friends are concerned about you, therefore so am I.
Thank you. Those two sentences pretty much describe what these boards are all about - why we're here for each other.

And with answering the responses I've gotten since yesterday, all I've been doing is talking about myself tonight! That's part of why we're all here, too, isn't it?

Good luck with the ADs. Monitor yourself and don't leave the monitoring up to your doctor alone. Due to side affects, etc. I tried three before we hit upon the right one.

Peace,
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/20/10 04:10 AM
fm,
Originally Posted By: flowmom
I like the idea of using music to create new triggers. Music really affects my mindset and I think it might be time to use that to my advantage. Thanks Coach smile
I agree. A good idea.

Originally Posted By: flowmom
If it hasn't already been done it would be cool to have a LBS playlist thread...with the focus on music that has a message of positivity/hope.
Having previously admitted to being a closet Barry White and Abba (and some disco) fan, I'll admit to also really liking Barry Manilow's music. I say this because I thought of your suggestion above today when his song, "I Made It Through The Rain" came on the ipod. Check out the song and/or the lyrics. A perfect DB - and DB community - song.

Originally Posted By: flowmom
I think it's great that you can vent here Gardener. So many men don't give themselves any outlet to express their emotions.
Thank you (though I have been accused more than once of doing so to a fault): "unbridled self-expression," ineffectual MC once told me. crazy
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/20/10 04:18 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Gnosis, if you'll accept a verbal on-the-phone smack upside the head as just as good, consider it already done. wink

I'll let Gypsy decide. wink laugh
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/20/10 04:29 AM
avermont,
Thank you for all this. All good.
Originally Posted By: avermont
FB is the spawn of the devil, I swear!! There are too many posts about FB causing way too much emotional turmoil.
I plan on getting off fb. I'll probably keep my Gardener/DB fb page, but drop my "real" one.
I only got on it to try to find my long-lost granddaughter, 13, and was successful at that. Besides, my life isn't all that interesting for constant - or even occasional - fb'ing, in my view. And all my friends on there already know how to contact me: address, email, phone #, the works, So, what's the point? I'm dropping out.
Originally Posted By: avermont
I secretly love ABBA and Culture Club. Maybe I could start listening to music again with The Clash and Sex Pistols. At least that music is pre-X
That is the perfect, obvious solution: "pre-X" music. I like that.

Originally Posted By: avermont
I'm sorry to hear how close to the edge you were at NYE. Been very close myself. I make a few key friends repeat to me every few days why I should keep on living check in with your friends often.

Also find a more cheerful on line or real life group to connect to. I am grateful beyond measure for everyone here, but it is emotionally draining

vitamins. Robins. Exercise. Snowdrops. The earth keeps turning.

Peace.
Yep. Yep. Yep.
Thanks.
Peace,
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/20/10 04:46 AM
Rocked.
Sorry. I got your post, just forgot to respond.

The roller coaster is common to us all. I have been surprised, though, at how many acknowledge deep, despairing moments of hopelessness...which they overcame!

Thank you, Rocked, but we are all coping with a devastating time with inner strength and with the best choices we can make under circumstances not of our choosing.

No, SIL is coping best she can with a beloved sister and a BIL she really likes & vice versa. Whenever I start to succumb to an "I hurt..." over Stepson, Stepdaughter, or SIL, I reframe it to the real truth: "They hurt!" It helps put it in perspective.

BTO, baby! "Let it Ride", "Give It Time". "Roll On Down The Highway" Oh, yeah!
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/21/10 03:13 PM
Wow- miss a few days and look what happens... I don't think I can add anything to what's already been said other than "don't do that again! Call someone immediately- don't go it alone!" Too many people love you...

Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/21/10 03:29 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Thank you (though I have been accused more than once of doing so to a fault): "unbridled self-expression," ineffectual MC once told me.
Self-expression is GOOD...though some of us learn the hard way that it's all about picking the right venue for it.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/21/10 10:53 PM
mini-journal,

Met X at a bookstore to exchange some paperwork this afternoon. She looked awful, usually does of late (then again, so do I frown ). I tried some pleasantries, some new-granddaughter questions, etc. She seemed taken off guard by that. Maybe because of last week when I rebuffed her ludicrous "let's-be-friends, now" grand gesture.

Leaving, I was thinking I just do not like her anymore. I don't dislike her - at least not yet, despite having been given such ample reasons to. I just don't like her.

Of course, as I just mentioned to poet, three hours later I'm out back in the garden we built side-by-side over years, and the damn tears start to come again. I left the garden, came back inside.

Go friggin' figure.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/22/10 12:31 AM
I thought about you today. I was coming back from working in Chicago and I was awfully tired. I kept coming back to going to mediation and the eventual fight over custody.

I realized if I don't get joint physical custody then I may end up hating her.

Seriously, I get to see my girls an awful lot and if she's successful it'll get cut to four times every two weeks.

I remember thinking that you were a bit harsh in your meeting with your ex. Everyone else was congratuling you so I didn't chime in.

But then I wondered to myself, what would I say to stbx the first time I see her alone if she wins custody?
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/22/10 12:47 AM
Gardener, it sounds like it will help when you are not living the your marital home any more. hugs to you.
Posted By: poet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/22/10 03:51 AM
Gardener,

Can you find a place in your garden that is all yours? Where you can meditate?

poet
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/22/10 04:48 AM
poet,
Originally Posted By: poet
Gardener,

Can you find a place in your garden that is all yours? Where you can meditate?

poet
Not really. Don't picture lush, full, sculpted garden as much as nice yard with many interesting beds with veg, annuals, perennials, bulbs. If I weren't selling the place, I'd make a little spot, though.
I meditate in our/my bedroom, which oddly holds no real memories or tugs of saddness anymore.
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/22/10 05:00 AM
Hey G--as always thanks for the check in with me. I just caught up with you and let me say......I understand, and more importantly I am glad that good Gardner won.

No great words, but you are a great person and I can only imagine the impact you have on the people that you have in your life IRL--if you are this positive and moving on a message board to so many people.

Really, people hang on you and others advice and compassion because you can tell how true the words are so thanks and don't go anywhere because we are not done with you yet!
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/23/10 03:24 PM
Seems like you are doing well Gardener, good for you! Keep things going forward!
Posted By: poet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/23/10 10:41 PM
Gardener,

Thanks for checking in with me too. Poet always needs some words of wisdom, no matter what. I will answer your post on my thread -- "This train: rolling down a no-come-back-track" -- soon, I promise!

poet, who is looking forward to hearing about your next garden!
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/25/10 03:11 AM
Hey G.

I hope you are gaining strength. Hope, healing, and peace to you.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/25/10 05:35 AM
And to you, Ant.
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/30/10 05:00 PM
Hey Gardener- it's been a while since you posted too! How are you doing, friend?

Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: kat727 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/30/10 05:34 PM
Just stopping by and saying HI!

kat
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/30/10 11:42 PM
Thanks, Bunny & kat,
Hanging in there.
As I just told givingitmyall in the .alt, I had a bit of a setback. A few weeks back there was a problem with the COBRA. Took them a few days to fix. And since nothing could be processed - including my pending Rx refill, I figured now is a good time to stop that final AD that I was being "weaned" from, anyway.
That was a mistake. Took about two weeks for me to crash. Big time.
Now waiting for resumed meds to kick in.
Thanks for checking in.
Posted By: CityGirl Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/31/10 12:17 AM
I am really glad you are back on your meds. Being weaned properly is so important!

I went three days w/o my Lexapro (wasn't trying to take myself off of it, I had another RX to fill and was waiting to get both done at the same time). I figured three days, two and a half actually, would be no big deal.

WRONG!

I didn't crash or feel emotionally unwell but I was so dizzy I could not even see straight. It was the most awful feeling. I was literally walking into walls.

My dr explained the science behind it all (the blood/brain barrier penetration with AD's) and being weaned the right way is very, very crucial!

Be well!
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 03/31/10 12:32 AM
(((Gardener))) I'm sorry you've been through a tough time. I hope that we can be of support to you.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/03/10 02:31 AM
CityGirl and flowmom,
Thanks for checking in. I'm doing much better. And, actually, the resumed meds I mentioned is not the AD I stopped. My Dr. said that since I experienced so few of the many reported withdrawal side affects, I will probably be fine. The worst side affect was rampant anxiety. The meds I have been given are low-dose, low strength anti anxiety meds, just enough as she said, "take the edge off." Am seeing her Tuesday for a follow up

Of the many side affects, I experienced only the anxiety, crying spells, slight difficulty swallowing and - get this - repetitive songs/tunes getting stuck in your head! When I read that, I thought, "well that explains that odd inexplicable annoyance of the last few days. There's even a name for that (I forget it right now). Who knew?

I had suspected that after 18 mos of the meds, I might no longer be depressed and apparently I m,ah have been right ( so far). While anxiety can be a large part of depression, I remember the depression of '08 that put me on meds and I feel nothing like that (nor do I ever want to be there again!).

I've been keeping up on many threads, chiming in on none. But will be back in in full force soon.
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/03/10 02:47 AM
Hey G I hear you on the checking in without chiming in. Hope all is well for you. Looking forward to getting more words of wisdom from you next week when I move into my new place!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/03/10 03:15 AM
***Long Journal Warning***
Journaling,

Rough couple of weeks stopping the AD meds, but overall, doing real good now and am on mild anti-anxiety meds. Beginning to realize that low-level chronic anxiety has really been a life-long problem. Exercising even more, meditating even more (have added chanting after investigating it after - flowmom was it? - made mention of it several times. Seems to help still the mind further and offer a different way of monitoring and being conscious of my breathing.

Am also slooowing down. In everything I do. Trying to recapture my mindfulness.

Am trying these and other complimentary approaches to become more aware of - and feel - the anxiety. I find it helps to keep it in check.

Getting out/reaching out more. No/low money things.

Adopting Gypsy's approach of tackling first that which I fear the most. Has been very helpful in chipping away at the procrastination. And with the "worst" done and behind me, there's a sense of accomplishment and a sense that even if that one's the only one I tackle that day, I'm content with that.

I lost another customer due to the economy. Not sure, but I may have crossed that threshold of now making slightly less than my monthly nut. But I'll get over that and through it.

I'm going to Colorado at the end of the month for five days to visit S,33 in his new house on the mountain. It's been a little over a year since I've seen him last and I can't wait.

Have interviewed three new, nearby ICs. Had to shelve the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for now because in thi$ neck of the woods, CBT, like everything else, is quite expensive: $250/initial consult and $225 thereafter per weekly visit. Nope, gonna have to pa$$ for now.

One IC has had some training in CBT and I really clicked with her. Came away feeling understood, cared about and cared for and with the sense of - no, actually her assurance of - her being a real task master and not just a passive, friendly, supportive listener which is all my last IC was.

I also consulted with a psychiatrist who I saw for 6 or so sessions in '06 as I undertook quitting alcohol. Back then, I had I asked Mrs. G. to accompany me and, thankfully, she did; it helped a lot. When I brought him up to date on the last 4+ years, and the walk away, inexplicable alien behavior of former wife (adding a description of her horrid FOO and upbringing) as well as the sudden death of her physically abusive father five months before the Bomb, he made a most interesting comment: "I always had a sense that Mrs. G. was speaking from a place of deep trauma."

Sort of brought me back to my DB stance in the beginning of always reminding myself, "Your best friend is in an awful lot of pain and very confused."

That helped me, but never really helped the sitch: I couldn't get through that wall of pain.

Am organizing a mini high school reunion outside the normal Alumni Reunion fiascos: just my old crowd. End of May. 11 invited, 10 confirmed.

When I told S,33 of my itinerary to Colorado, he announced my birthday present for July. He works for a recording/touring "bluegrass/rock" band with 10 albums under their belt. Also does Security at various musical festivals/concerts and cruises. Well, he informed me that he bought me airfare to Portland, OR for a musical festival he's working. I'm going to be working for him, handling backstage/all-access Security for 4 days. I'm thrilled! Might even have time to drive over to Eugene and check that town out while I'm there.

Long post, but I've kinda been away as you know. That and I can't remember the last time I posted a journal listing nothing but positive developments!

Thanks. I'll be catching back up with you guys over the next few days

***End Long Journal Warning***
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/03/10 03:21 AM
Originally Posted By: Buffet
Hey G I hear you on the checking in without chiming in. Hope all is well for you. Looking forward to getting more words of wisdom from you next week when I move into my new place!
I'll be there, Buffet!
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/03/10 03:27 AM
Hey Gardener,

Nice to read your update. I'm so glad to read about the things you're doing to manage low-level anxiety. I'm becoming more aware of how this has affected my life too. Just being able to identify feeling anxious is a challenge for me, because it's become so habitual.

take care!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/03/10 03:39 AM
fm,
Originally Posted By: flowmom
Nice to read your update. I'm so glad to read about the things you're doing to manage low-level anxiety. I'm becoming more aware of how this has affected my life too. Just being able to identify feeling anxious is a challenge for me, because it's become so habitual.
Thank you. I know there are some who think I take the Inner Child thing too far, but I am realizing that at the core of most of my onsets of anxiety, is a trigger/memory of a fear, a dread, a sense of being overwhelmed that sets off a reaction in the now of the little boy in me from the past (if that makes sense). I kind of tell him this is different, I'll handle it, I got his back. For me, it works.
Hope all is well with you. Will catch up soon.
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/03/10 07:16 PM
Hey Gardner, checking in.

Your birthday present sounds awesome.

I, too, suffer from that constant low-level anxiety. Haven't done any work yet to find out why this is so, but it's just like my mum, so there you go. It is indeed draining.

I'll keep checking in. I look forward to hearing your rock n'roll backstage stories!
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/03/10 10:25 PM
I think most of us suffer from low level anxiety. Some may not have had it until the WAS left or dropped the bomb.

For me, a lot of my issues date back to my parents' divorce and my teenage years. My issue is I feel like a failure when I'm not with someone.

It's why I'm really, really, really trying to stay connected with D7 and D11.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/03/10 10:56 PM
CTH,

Focusing on the kids is good. Focusing on yourself and getting happy with yourself, by yourself, is better.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/10/10 03:36 PM
Journaling,

I've come to realize that - for me, anyway - the roller coaster doesn't end abruptly. Or even eventually. I seem to have simply temporarily switched over to the kiddie roller coaster. Slower. Fewer and lower climbs, fewer and less-steep dips. But still a roller coaster.

Sad and lonely Saturday morning. Sunny, cloudless, but crisp and unexpectedly cool.

A typical walk around the yard and garden, cup of tea in hand. The weeping cherry tree I planted nine years ago is now 25 feet tall and wide and absolutely splendidly covered in blossoms that float down like pink snow flurries.

The 250 hostas (my favorites - and the deers' favorite mad) grow this time of the year at a rate you could almost see happening. The rows of peonies are two inches taller than just yesterday!

I cut back the bare Hydrangea trees just this Wednesday. Today, their leaf buds are the size of my thumb. The Lily-Of-The-Valley bed is dense with pips breaking the soil. Grape Hyacinths perfume the walk.

Bridal-Wreath Spirea live up to their flowing, snow white namesake.In the midst of the Lilac leaves are their promises of flowers to come.

Daffodils hanging on. Tulips just opening. Yesterday I could still see the house behind my backyard. Today, the row of Burning Bushes have almost obscured the view with just one day's worth of leafing out.

The Honeysuckle begins its slow choking conquest of the arbor.

It is all still so beautiful but now virtually meaningless. A visual delight that now just underscores loneliness. I am almost embarrassed to admit that this morning - for the first time in months - I am, quite simply and starkly, bereft.

I am unaccustomed to taking these early morning strolls, teacup in hand without my partner by my side holding the Dunkin' Donuts coffee that I would have just returned from buying for her.

There is no hand in my hand during this morning's walk, emphatically squeezing it with every, "Oh, look, Gardener! How beautiful!" There is no spontaneous cheek-peck as she says, "Thank you for all this, Gardener. You've made our home so beautiful!"

Where - where? - did she go? What happened to her?

I silently scream in my mind to keep the eyes from welling, wondering when - when - will I ever get mad, when does the rage come? The indignant rage at having been selfishly, senselessly, maliciously, robbed of so much?

I am totally taken aback and overwhelmed by being flooded like this this morning.

Is there a fine line or is it a wide, gaping area between the experiencing of and really feeling these feelings and simply wallowing in them?

I don't know.

It now hurts so seldomly, so rarely as time passes.
But it still hurts. With a power that almost frightens.

I will be okay.
I will be okay the day I no longer say, "I will be okay."
On the day I say, "I am okay."

Gardener.
Solo. But not Soaring.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/10/10 04:39 PM
I'm with you, Gardener. I realized this week that it's Saturdays that I dread. I usually can find things to do on the nights if I work hard enough at it. But it's the weekend days I don't know what to do with myself.

When W and I were together, a weekend day with nothing to do was like found money -- golf, basketball, a bike ride, wow, what to do with myself.

Now, there's no motivation for any of that.

If I remember right, you are selling the house, correct? Where are you going to move to? If it's another, smaller, house, then perhaps you can get your mind off things by planning the Garden just for Gardener.

Another idea. You must have some kind of arboretum or nature preserve nearby that is looking for volunteers. Perhaps you could work at a place like this on the weekends.
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/10/10 08:37 PM
Hey G sorry to hear that you had a tough morning, it sounds like you put a ton of work into the garden and yard, I am sure you did that for you and the X but also b/c it is something that YOU liked. Enjoy it for what it is---your hobby. You never know someone else might stroll by and wander who that Gardener is??!

Also need you to pep up and welcome me to my new home, I moved recently!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/10/10 08:56 PM
Thanks, Buffet.
I was at your new home. First day, I believe. You must have missed my post.
Hope all is well. Will catch up later.
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/10/10 09:17 PM
(((Gardener))) like you said...this is your year for cycling through the seasons as a newly single man. And everything that you would have shared with her is a painful reminder of your loss. Sometimes beauty hurts when we're in pain.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/10/10 11:12 PM
Hey Gardener, sorry to hear you are still having some bad days, but we all do and will. Like you said, the roller coaster continues, but the the hills and valleys get smaller and smaller. Time will help us there.

Quote:
Where - where? - did she go? What happened to her?


This question you come back to often, and you simply must realize that it is a question without an answer. You will continue to cycle through this and other feelings until you let this question go.

I know, it is painfully hard. Maybe you can find a trigger or word trigger that when this creeps in you push it out of your mind with acceptance that you will not be able to answer it, so you will not let it affect you anymore.

I feel it's at the root of a lot of these bad feelings that reside and come from the past

You can do this, and take the focus off X and return to the focus to what is most important. Gardener and his thriving future.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/11/10 02:09 AM
cth, buffet, flowmom, iwantittowork,

Thank you for your responses, thoughts and suggestions.

I'm okay. Really. Sometimes, it just hits you all over almost like the very first time again. Or am I the only one who occasionally experiences this?

Like Gypsy and many of you, I enjoy writing. And on mornings like this morning, I do so so descriptively that I imagine some of you wind up thinking, "Uh oh. Gardener's losing it."

Gardener isn't losing it. He's just still processing it, far less often, to be sure, but sometimes still just as intensely.

Even mornings like today, after the nostalgic wave of loss passes - and it does, relatively quickly - I simply...resume. Usually with a post-cathartic spring in my step, a simple "oh. well," or "it is what it is," or a muttered barb aimed at the absent x along the lines of, "your loss, toots!" wink

As always, I appreciate your rushing in with support. It must sound on occasion as though I need triage rather than support, but I don't. I guess when I journal and share what I feel, I really share what I feel! At that moment, at least. The alternative is to tone it down, to minimize it and that I can't do. I'm not being dramatic, just articulating it for me and to you. To exorcise it. And then get on with it.

Originally Posted By: clingingtohope
I realized this week that it's Saturdays that I dread...Another idea. You must have some kind of arboretum or nature preserve nearby that is looking for volunteers. Perhaps you could work at a place like this on the weekends.
Amen on the first comment, cth. Great idea on the second comment. There is one nearby, too. Thank you, cth.
Originally Posted By: flowmom
...everything that you would have shared with her is a painful reminder of your loss. Sometimes beauty hurts when we're in pain.
Amen, fm. It's as profoundly simple - and, thankfully, as fleeting - as that.
Originally Posted By: iwantittowork
let this question go.
Thank you, friend. I am. It's a process, though. And it's happening, despite the occasional backslide.

Gratefully,
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/12/10 02:00 AM
I hope you had a better day today Gardener!

I wish I could see your garden- it sounds absolutely lovely. I am missing mine this year.

Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/13/10 04:12 AM
Originally Posted By: SpyBunny
I hope you had a better day today Gardener!
I did, thank you.
Originally Posted By: SpyBunny
I wish I could see your garden- it sounds absolutely lovely. I am missing mine this year. Hugs, Bunny
I'm missing mine, too. Just going through the motions. Keeping it up for the sale. But enjoying even that, to an extent. I dunno: it's in my blood, I guess.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/15/10 04:01 AM
Gardener, today was one of those days where it felt like it was hitting me again for the first time. I'm with you there.

I use this site for advice as well as my own journal. On really dark nights I've gone through my sitch from the beginning just to see how far I've come. I go through others, such as BobbiJo, to see how far I still have to go.

Today, for long stretches of the day, I felt like I was losing it. These next three weeks are going to be incredibly tense for me and work is piling up and I'm letting it sit there.

I am what I never thought I'd be, an unmotivated mess barely able to function at times. Everyone around me tells me how great I'm doing. Only people on these boards know the truth.
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/15/10 05:11 AM
Hey G and others, just checking in to say Hi. Rare good day for me so I figured I would come and spread some cheer around here.

Hope today is better for you Gardener, and CTH just wait for the sun tomorrow could be another bad day, might be a better day but the sun is coming no matter what!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/15/10 03:31 PM
Quick, emergency venting:

Three emails back and forth between XW and me this morning. Per last email, she is going to call in a few minutes.

"There were three things in my life that were the most important things to me in this world and that I loved beyond measure: You, our family, and our home.
They are now all gone. Why?"


I have had an inexplicable, overwhelming urge to say or write that to her this morning.

Getting it out of my system here - now - quickly, before she calls.
crazy crazy frown cry
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/15/10 03:37 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
"There were three things in my life that were the most important things to me in this world and that I loved beyond measure: You, our family, and our home.
They are now all gone. Why?"

My response:

Huh? You could have fooled me.... oh wait you did. Have a nice life.



.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/15/10 03:47 PM
Thanks, Gno.
I know.
There is no acceptable response.
At least there would never be a truthful one forthcoming.
Of course, there will be no response at all because I wouldn't ask it.

Bad morning. Weak moment. Glad I was able to get it out here.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/15/10 04:03 PM
CTH,
Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope
I am what I never thought I'd be, an unmotivated mess barely able to function at times.
Well put. I can identify. Thank God it's only "at times" and, for me, becoming fewer and further between.

I'll be thinking of you and chiming in during your tough 3 weeks.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/15/10 04:13 PM
hang in, gardener. you're a good man. there's something awful about this involuntary pruning of our lives; for a long time I thought for sure the pruning was too severe and would stunt my growth forever. but suddenly with this springtime there's new growth shooting out all over the place, and fresh blooms.

this is your fallow season. rest under the fertile loam for now; springtime will come.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/15/10 04:39 PM
Thank you, hm,
How nice (and quite poetic)
I am hanging in and doing quite fine overall, but oh, those moments!

The pruning is more like a coppicing: pruning it all down to soil level - to virtually nothing left but the roots below - and letting it start all over again completely.

Welcome to Surviving The Big Coppicing Forum! grin
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/15/10 04:48 PM
I never knew there was such a term!! But I will certainly use it!
Posted By: Awoken Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/15/10 06:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Like Gypsy and many of you, I enjoy writing. And on mornings like this morning, I do so so descriptively that I imagine some of you wind up thinking, "Uh oh. Gardener's losing it."
Your words are like a garden too. You are so descriptive. I find myself struggling to get the words out, and to say what I feel, what is on my mind. There is solace for me in reading what you (and serenity) say, as you often articulate the very things I wish I could say, framing it from my mind for me. Yes, it's painful to read. I suppose I get to a similar place on the piano, but the specificity of actual words do make a difference. I'm trying to say thanks!

Anyway, Been thinking about you, and I hope you are well.
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/15/10 10:46 PM
G--
I have started to use this one (thanks BBJ) "This is what YOU wanted, so why don't YOU tell me, I am out of answers for you".

So far this one has kept XW at bay. I like it to b/c somewhere deep down she knows it is true. Not really a way to throw that back at me

Sounds like you did a good job venting here and avoiding a gut punch from your XW---keep using us not let her use you G!
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/15/10 10:47 PM
So what happened with the phone call?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/16/10 06:17 AM
Thank you, Awoken. I am well (in fact you and Renee Marie are singing to me right now. I forget the title, but it's that husband's-gone-stranger-has-erotic-D/S- encounter-with-wife- song!) laugh grin wink whistle cool I'll have to play that one to the next companion/lover who comes into my life wink

Thank you for the kind words on my journaling/venting posts. Like I said, when I get very descriptive and candid, I feel I run the risk of being seen as "Gardener's backsliding big-time out of detachment again," when all I'm really doing is giving voice to those fewer and farther-apart bereft feelings of (still) very real loss.

I mourn. I grieve. Still.
This is not to me a sign of weakness or a symptom of not healing or moving forward or (that absolutely dreadful phrase) not "getting on with my life."

It is part of my process. And Saturday I was consumed by a starkly alone garden-walk that underscored all that I've needlessly, selfishly lost.

I write such things for my emotional and spiritual healing and health. Not to demonstrate that I'm not yet healthy or healing.

Sorry, Awoken. I'm getting a bit strident, but not at you. You understand.

I'm glad the "specificity of the actual words do make a difference," for you.

Similar to the way your music on your cd makes me forget the actual words for a while and just feel and be taken away to a different place. So, I thank you, too.

I read your sitch and think about you often, too. And despite;the pain I write and the pain I read from you, we will be fine. In time. No doubt.

Take care.
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/16/10 01:32 PM
Hey CTH-

Unmotivated mess--that's me! But apparently I can pull it off well enough not to get fired.

A friend of mine told me: anyone who is going through a divorce and doesn't get arrested, fired, or forced into a 12 Step program is a success!

So on those three counts, I am doing fine, and I'm going to guess you are, too.

We may have to lower our standards of "Excellent Performance" for the first year or two--but then presumably we can re-set the bar for ourselves.
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/16/10 01:36 PM
Sorry, Gardener--I keep hijacking threads when I mean to respond to YOUR thread. I'm not really good at this.

As for you: you are so aware of where your heart and mind are. You know what you are feeling, can name it, and can know it is part of the healing.

I have wondered myself just how exactly God allows this incredible pain to exist. But there it is, and you--and all of us--plug along through it. It is life, it is human.

Oh, that we could all be happy Labrador Retrievers!
Posted By: whiskey.tango Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/16/10 02:09 PM
Quote:
mourn. I grieve. Still.
This is not to me a sign of weakness or a symptom of not healing or moving forward or (that absolutely dreadful phrase) not "getting on with my life."

It is part of my process. And Saturday I was consumed by a starkly alone garden-walk that underscored all that I've needlessly, selfishly lost.


This.

Everyone has their own intentions. For their own actions and actions towards you. For those who were impatient with me through my journey, I asked myself what their intentions were. Sometimes they just wanted me to shut up and move on. Sometimes they wished I were more available so we could date. Sometimes they wanted all the focus to be on them.

I admire your strength and clarity with this. It took me a while to figure out what you already know. And about 2 rebound R's. wink

WT
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/16/10 02:20 PM
There are these awful moments, and sometimes they just completely sneak up on you from out of the blue and knock your feet out from under you. I think it's the totality of the loss sinking in to our psyches; seems like we have to feel it at every level in order to heal at every level.

I'm so glad you realize this is just part of the journey, not a sign of weakness or not healing. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/16/10 03:46 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Thank you, Awoken. I am well (in fact you and Renee Marie are singing to me right now. I forget the title, but it's that husband's-gone-stranger-has-erotic-D/S- encounter-with-wife- song!) laugh grin wink whistle cool I'll have to play that one to the next companion/lover who comes into my life wink

Thank you for the kind words on my journaling/venting posts. Like I said, when I get very descriptive and candid, I feel I run the risk of being seen as "Gardener's backsliding big-time out of detachment again," when all I'm really doing is giving voice to those fewer and farther-apart bereft feelings of (still) very real loss.

I mourn. I grieve. Still.
This is not to me a sign of weakness or a symptom of not healing or moving forward or (that absolutely dreadful phrase) not "getting on with my life."

It is part of my process. And Saturday I was consumed by a starkly alone garden-walk that underscored all that I've needlessly, selfishly lost.

I write such things for my emotional and spiritual healing and health. Not to demonstrate that I'm not yet healthy or healing.

Sorry, Awoken. I'm getting a bit strident, but not at you. You understand.

I'm glad the "specificity of the actual words do make a difference," for you.

Similar to the way your music on your cd makes me forget the actual words for a while and just feel and be taken away to a different place. So, I thank you, too.

I read your sitch and think about you often, too. And despite;the pain I write and the pain I read from you, we will be fine. In time. No doubt.

Take care.


Gardener,

Just wanted to tell you I thought this was a great observation AND that it really helped me where I am right now.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/16/10 04:25 PM
So true. We tend to believe there is some kind of time limit on these things, there's an arbitrary time where we will no longer feel any pain. Sometimes we feel we are well beyond that limit and wonder "what the heck is wrong with me"! Losing a marriage of any length of time is a horrible, horrible thing. In our society it's talked about like an everyday occurrence, like it's nothing. Yet, the damage it causes to individuals is real and an everyday battle to overcome. It's not just one of those things. like a bad flu, that will happen to each of us! I know there are times when I'm out somewhere and realize I'm there alone, I'm not with that person I spent 17 years of my life with. It's tough sometimes. I don't know when it gets to be a distant memory but even after 2.5 years I'm not there yet.
So Gardener and givingitmyall, you two aren't alone here!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/16/10 10:50 PM
Originally Posted By: givingitmyall
Gardener,

Just wanted to tell you I thought this was a great observation AND that it really helped me where I am right now.

I'm glad it helped, gima. That makes me feel even better having unloaded it...er, written it.. smile
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/17/10 12:50 PM
Quote:
We tend to believe there is some kind of time limit on these things, there's an arbitrary time where we will no longer feel any pain. Sometimes we feel we are well beyond that limit and wonder "what the heck is wrong with me"
Exactly. I was having this exact conversation in my head Friday morning.
Posted By: NoCodeBlues Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/17/10 07:40 PM
Actually, it has been described as being a cycle. (Others key into the "rollercoaster" nature of this process.)

We each cycle through the various stages of this traumatic experience -- and the entire associated range of emotions -- over and over again; each time the cycle becoming more and more spread out, less intense and easier to cope with. Eventually the cycle flattens out and we no longer are so affected, having grown, adapted and moved forward. Healed.

Some cycle out sooner than others. For some of us the cycles seem to fade but they do resurface. Eventually we will all get beyond this. Or so we hope.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/17/10 07:47 PM
My guess is we never totally get beyond it. I base this on a conversation with a coworker. He's been happily married to his second wife for nearly 20 years. They raised a son. He said the second marriage is better in every way from the first.

Yet he still thinks about his first wife at least once a week.

That was an eye-opener.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/17/10 11:13 PM
Sorry, CTH, just realized I missed this
Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope
So what happened with the phone call?
She never called. She also emailed yesterday that she would be bringing some paperwork I needed over. Would bring it over yesterday or today. Never showed; never called. She's more and more like that lately.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 12:02 AM
avermont,
Late reply to you, too. Sorry.
Originally Posted By: avermont
Sorry, Gardener--I keep hijacking threads when I mean to respond to YOUR thread. I'm not really good at this.
As for you: you are so aware of where your heart and mind are. You know what you are feeling, can name it, and can know it is part of the healing.
I have wondered myself just how exactly God allows this incredible pain to exist. But there it is, and you--and all of us--plug along through it. It is life, it is human.Oh, that we could all be happy Labrador Retrievers!
Hijack away. They're not really hijacks; I consider them more like asides or simply "joining in." These are not dialogues we're having (oh, sometimes they are monologues when we vent and journal, true), they are conversations and we join in, interrupt, and digress just as if we were face to face.
Thank you for your kind words. Fortunately, I am usually aware of where my heart and mind are (although the "wheres" have more often than not been bad places these last seventeen months. Indeed, one of the first questions X asked me when we were getting to know each other was how I would describe myself in one word. "Self-aware;" was my immediate response.

We do all plug through incredible pain, but I personally never wonder why God allows this pain to exist. He gives us this gift of life and the natural world and each other. After that, it's all up to us.
I hope you are well and "plugging along" best you can.

And, ah, Labrador retrievers. I think dogs are even more zen-like than cats. My favorite New Yorker cartoon - which I've quoted often, here - shows a man in his easy chair glancing at his watch saying, "What time is it?" His dog is next to him, looking at him with a thought balloon that says, simply "Now. Now. Now. Now."
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 12:02 AM
Yes. STBXW asked me to give the after-school sitter $35 and she'd stop by and give me a check for it. She never came by and then responded to one email I sent at midnight. Funny thing is I sent something like five emails this week and she responded to just the one.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 12:15 AM
Thank you, wt,
Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango
Everyone has their own intentions. For their own actions and actions towards you. For those who were impatient with me through my journey, I asked myself what their intentions were. Sometimes they just wanted me to shut up and move on. Sometimes they wished I were more available so we could date. Sometimes they wanted all the focus to be on them.
This.

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango
admire your strength and clarity with this. It took me a while to figure out what you already know. And about 2 rebound R's. wink
Thanks, again.
And no rebound Rs for Gardener. One year, one cycle: One birthday, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's Valentine's Day, etc. ONE YEAR with no R. Just me (socializing, of course, but no R).
And the 16 months of the sitch since the bomb doesn't count. I'm starting my year with the 2/09/10 D.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 12:16 AM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
I'm so glad you realize this is just part of the journey, not a sign of weakness or not healing. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I don't and I won't. (We should post/talk more; we're of very like minds).
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 12:17 AM
So true. it gets so that you can actually see the cycle coming at you.

there will be those, even on the boards, that will tell you that you should be somewhere besides where you are, you should be further along, you should feel more detached by now. To them I say--never "should" on yourself. these things take time, they can't be rushed, and to know that one is having a bad time and it will pass is invaluable. congratulations, gardener.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 12:20 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
I'm so glad you realize this is just part of the journey, not a sign of weakness or not healing. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I don't and I won't. (We should post/talk more; we're of very like minds).

...to the point of writing similar things at the same time!!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 12:35 AM
whatisis,
Originally Posted By: whatisis
Losing a marriage of any length of time is a horrible, horrible thing. In our society it's talked about like an everyday occurrence, like it's nothing. Yet, the damage it causes to individuals is real and an everyday battle to overcome. It's not just one of those things. like a bad flu, that will happen to each of us! I know there are times when I'm out somewhere and realize I'm there alone, I'm not with that person I spent 17 years of my life with. It's tough sometimes. I don't know when it gets to be a distant memory but even after 2.5 years I'm not there yet.
So Gardener and givingitmyall, you two aren't alone here!
You're right on the money, here. Coincidentally, mine was 17 years, too. Check out The Journey From Abandonment To Healing by Susan Anderson who has worked with LBHs for 25 years. Great book! 1) She says that the effects of being LB by a WAW is identical to the symptoms and stages of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. 2) She says, "When a relationship ends, it is painful for both people, but the pain is especially debilitating for the one left behind..." 3)She states that most LBHs think it would have been better had the spouse died. For the LBH, the spouse has died, but there are no rituals, friends and family don't step in to help, the family/friend circle tends to dissipate rather than gather round. Again, a great book. I highly recommend it. It has helped me identify the stage of abandonment grief I am literally stuck in and can't seem to move beyond. My new IC and I are using this book as our starting off point.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 12:36 AM
NCB,
Originally Posted By: NoCodeBlues
Actually, it has been described as being a cycle. (Others key into the "rollercoaster" nature of this process.)
We each cycle through the various stages of this traumatic experience -- and the entire associated range of emotions -- over and over again; each time the cycle becoming more and more spread out, less intense and easier to cope with. Eventually the cycle flattens out and we no longer are so affected, having grown, adapted and moved forward. Healed.
Some cycle out sooner than others. For some of us the cycles seem to fade but they do resurface. Eventually we will all get beyond this. Or so we hope.
Excellent.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 12:58 AM
CTH,
Uh-Oh,
Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope
My guess is we never totally get beyond it. I base this on a conversation with a coworker. He's been happily married to his second wife for nearly 20 years. They raised a son. He said the second marriage is better in every way from the first.

Yet he still thinks about his first wife at least once a week.

That was an eye-opener.
This is my second divorce. Actually the second marriage was light-years better in every way than the first. The (current) X Mrs. Gardener had a very abusive father and wound up marrying a man 47 years her senior (daddy?). She often complained to me that from the day they were married, her name changed from (her name) to "Hon." I, personally, eschew pet names, so I always called her by her first name which she loved.

I, too, got married the first time around to the wrong person at the wrong time for the wrong reason (me:21, she:19).

As a result of these facts, Mrs. G. and I always said we were each wed before, but this was our first real marriage.

And I still believe that the sudden death of her horribly abusive father, with whom she had severed all contact for 30+ years, a death which occurred 5 months before the bomb, was the deep-seated catalyst of re-surfacing pain for her. And she had to escape...something. And that something became me and our marriage.

But, as always, I really digress, here. Sorry.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 01:06 AM
hm,
Thank you. You're right, of course. And I also like- and often use - the phrase you employed: Keep thimking "shoulds" and you wind up "shoulding all over yourself!" grin
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 01:07 AM
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
...to the point of writing similar things at the same time!!
Yep. That, too.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 02:10 AM
I posted in the .alt a few hours ago that I bit the financial sitch bullet and advertised my unused 2nd floor Master Bedroom Suite for rent.

Within 1 hour I got two calls and two showings tomorrow morning!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 06:52 PM
Absolutely Livid Journaling/Venting!

Today I am both showing the house (Open House) myself without my Broker (long story) and showing the upstairs Master Bedroom Suite to potential renters.

X shows up with some paperwork during one showing. I had asked her to call before coming over which she, of course, ignored.

I good-naturedly told her about the four sale showings and made the mistake of saying I have the MBS advertised for rent. She replies that since I may be realizing income from the place, she will not have to give me money towards expenses of the house any more.

Oh, no, no, no, says I. The damned Connecticut formula is so f'd up that despite her leaving me to come up with her half of house mortgage, taxes, insurance, utilities, upkeep for 17 months (covering an additional $1,500-$1,700 per month) to keep this place afloat so she can get her 50% of the proceeds when it's sold, her housing expenses went DOWN by $500+ when she moved into her apartment. Difference between her expenses and mine is about $500/month, so she only has to give me half of that difference - a whopping $240 - every month. And even that I do not get monthly: it will be in the form of a credit to me when the house is sold.

I told her I've been breaking my a$$ monetarily and physically to keep this place up and to spruce it up for sale while she does nothing.

She said (once AGAIN) that she offered to come back in December and take over if I moved out and that I agreed and then changed my mind! (how dare I?) I asked her if she was also interested in discussing the seventeen "agreements" we had that she changed her mind on after she left the house! No, of course not. Besides, she did not leave the house (that fog fiction, again!), she left me.

I told her to talk to her lawyer, find the non-existent stipulation in the divorce agreement that she "pays" less if I generate rental income to stay alive until we can sell her and my house. Told her it ain't gonna happen. As a matter of fact, I have logged over 350 hours of non-"normal" maintenance and sprucing up work to sell this place and I'll pursue reimbursement for that if she wants to start playing games.

Also, told her that since the divorce decree gives me sole responsibility to making sure this place stays in show-ready condition, I want her to getthe rest of her sh!t out of my home now so the basement will look more open, less cluttered.17 months and two apartments later is long enough for her to continue to "store" stuff, here. Fine, she says and took a few items she could fit in her car. She said she'd be back for more. "Not today," I said. "No," she replied. "Good," I said.

I then said in the future do not come to my home without my prior approval as stated in the divorce agreement.

The next time she contacts me for anything, I plan on telling her that if it does not involve the house sale, her getting her stuff out of the house, or a matter of life and death, don't bother contacting me at all.

Dammit!! I let her "get" to me. Pi$$ed me off!
Mad at myself for letting that happen!

But it is good for me to see the cold, disdainful, selfish, self-righteous monster side of her again. Hopefully it will help me the next time I get sad, bereft, lonely for a person who no longer exists in any way shape or manner! Hopefully I will remember she is now a lying, deceitful, unprincipled, promise/word/commitment/vow-breaking, cake-eating, gaslighting, memory editing, history re-writing alien!

There. I'm done now.
Or should I say I'm done for now?
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 08:10 PM
Yikes. Yes. That sucks.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 09:04 PM
Gardener, here's something a friend once told me and she had been through divorce hell. "No matter how bad it gets, it will always get better". It sure helped me during tough times so I pass it on to you. smile
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/18/10 10:18 PM
Thanks, CTH.
Thanks whatisis; you're right.
You know what really happened to me today with X?
This: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU
mad grin
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/19/10 03:04 AM
Out of a 17-year habit (and a sense of optimism for the future), I just purchased two (yes, two) concert tickets for our my favorite singer-songwriter, Mary Chapin Carpenter (as you must all know by now!) for July.
Fifth row Center Orchestra, too! cool
So, feeling a little smile and a little frown about it.

Oh, well.
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/19/10 03:12 AM
How inconsiderate Gardener >:( . It's not enough to abandon you, but to not even stick to the D agreements is really lame.

I hope that as you grow stronger within yourself, her power to hurt you becomes less and less. I know you're working on it smile

Oh, and I'm in it-ended-after-17-years club too (together, not M).
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/19/10 03:22 AM
fm,
Originally Posted By: flowmom
I hope that as you grow stronger within yourself, her power to hurt you becomes less and less. I know you're working on it smile
It is and I am. Oh, am I ever!
Normally, in those rare face-to-face encounters, I keep an even keel with two thoughts:
1) I imagine her children - my beloved StepD and StepS being right there while I interact with her and,
2) I try to remember I am dealing with a confused, pained once horribly abused little girl.

Today was momentary and almost an aberration and I let it go. Even laughed it off with the YouTube clip I posted a few posts later laugh

But the chutzpah! And the money! Why must it always come down to money?!? MoneyMoneyMoneyMoney!
I'll never understand, I guess.
Thanks.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/19/10 03:24 AM
Oh, and
Originally Posted By: flowmom
Oh, and I'm in it-ended-after-17-years club too (together, not M).
Welcome to the club crazy frown
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/19/10 03:25 AM
Hey, don't leave me out! I'm a 17 year club member too.
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/19/10 03:42 AM
Can I join too?- I got 22 years with this guy...

And I'm sorry to hear how the X can still find ways to get her digs into you. I'm glad you're sticking to your guns and enforcing the boundaries and the divorce agreement, that's the only it's gonna stop. Hopefully once the house sells, there's not much for her to bother you about, right?

Hugs- Bunny
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/19/10 05:02 AM
G, that sucks! tomorrow will be a new day and this interaction will be behind you. Try to do something that makes you happy.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/19/10 06:12 AM
Bunny,
Originally Posted By: SpyBunny
And I'm sorry to hear how the X can still find ways to get her digs into you. I'm glad you're sticking to your guns and enforcing the boundaries and the divorce agreement, that's the only it's gonna stop. Hopefully once the house sells, there's not much for her to bother you about, right?Hugs- Bunny
Once the house is sold, the final tie is severed!
And
Originally Posted By: SpyBunny
Can I join too?- I got 22 years with this guy...
Sure!
But I gotcha all beat, guys:
1stM: 17 years.
2ndM: 17 years.
Or should I say:
1stM: 17 years.
Last and Final M!: 17 years.
I'm done period.

The first one was a too young, wrong person for the wrong reason M.

This one was 16 years of happy, fulfilling bliss and one year of alien battchit, fog, gaslight, script, memory-editing, history-rewriting absolutely selfish betrayal.
Ppfffttt!!!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/19/10 06:14 AM
Thanks SR
Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo
G, that sucks! tomorrow will be a new day and this interaction will be behind you. Try to do something that makes you happy.
I already did: all morning until she arrived and all afternoon and evening after she left. grin
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/19/10 06:18 AM
Hey,
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Out of a 17-year habit (and a sense of optimism for the future), I just purchased two (yes, two) concert tickets for our my favorite singer-songwriter, Mary Chapin Carpenter (as you must all know by now!) for July.
Fifth row Center Orchestra, too! cool
So, feeling a little smile and a little frown about it.

Oh, well.
Maybe come July I'll offer the second ticket to any of you wonderful female-type DBers who are within driving distance of Peekskill, NY to be my (sorta but not really) date! cool
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/19/10 11:25 AM
Quote:
Or should I say I'm done for now?


That sounds good for right here and in this moment.

Just repeat, and keep working on you and where you are going, and you'll start to drop the 'for now' part..
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/19/10 11:03 PM
Gardener-

Thank you for spending so much effort on me last night responding to my post. You go out of your way and it means so much to me. I've gotten stronger along the way, and I want you to know that your efforts are not wasted on me! You're one of the great ones in this world- I'm glad to have you as a friend.

I hope your week is off to a good start!

Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/20/10 03:31 AM
Originally Posted By: SpyBunny
Gardener-

Thank you for spending so much effort on me last night responding to my post. You go out of your way and it means so much to me. I've gotten stronger along the way, and I want you to know that your efforts are not wasted on me! You're one of the great ones in this world- I'm glad to have you as a friend.

I hope your week is off to a good start!

Hugs, Bunny
Why, thank you, Bunny. That means a lot. You're one of the great ones, too and your sitch just tears me (and a lot of other folks) up mad .
It has been a privilege to witness your inspiring growth and strength in face of a hellish experience. Keep going.

And, yeah, I had a great day. 1st meeting with new IC. A real good one!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/20/10 08:48 AM
Another night of insomnia. Such nights are, thankfully, increasingly infrequent,

But, boy, the exhaustion can wreak havoc on the thought processes. There's some British BBC movie on in the background. In it there was a rather intense lovemaking scene. Despite a good first new IC session tonight, the scene spontaneously evokes four words in my mind: "I miss my wife."

But of course I miss her: after all, she no longer exists. She disappeared a year and a half ago and became someone else entirely.

Tonight, my new IC, who treated my SIL years ago and knows X's FOO, posited the phenomenon that the sudden death of horribly abusive parents (her estranged father five months pre-WAW Bomb) is known to not only expose long-buried pain, but to also bring out an overwhelming sense of relief and release: total, newfound freedom perhaps for the first time ever in life. Usually followed
- months or years later - by deep guilt over those feelings and over the drastic responses and reactions they precipitated. More importantly, it is much more of a permanent person-change then a personality change.

Of course, she said it all far better and more succinctly than I just did, She's a real plain-talker, this new IC.

And while i always felt this had something to do with it, what does it change? Nothing, Except, perhaps, to keep alive that last small sense of compassion.

Oh. well.

"What's done cannot be undone - To bed, to bed, to bed."
Lady MacBeth
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/20/10 12:05 PM
Hey G-man.

Glad you have new IC to work on things, and hope you can focus on working on yourself over the coming sessions.

Boy, I hope you can get some sleep! I just read somewhere going 24 hours with no sleep does to your mind what 3 shots of booze will. Muddled thinking, no doubt!

At times like this, I took to Advil PM's, just enough to settle me down to fall asleep. I'd look to some help for that, it's important to really get a good nights sleep!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/20/10 03:46 PM
iwitw,Thanks. Some melatonin, chamomile tea and I was (finally) good to go. Got about 4 1/2 hrs. Good enough to get through the day without dragging.

I'm very impressed w/new IC. Even think the first meeting contributed to the insomnia: she really got me thinking - and questioning - last night.
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/20/10 10:01 PM
Hey G---have been gone for a bit moving into a new place (in real life) Catching up on your deal and as always you seem to be your best therapist! Keep talking things out on here and we will attempt to help when possible!
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/21/10 12:39 AM
I feel for you Gardener. I've had a lot of insomnia too. It's good to understand the past, but I look forward to hearing the progress that you make with your IC on working on YOU smile
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/21/10 02:37 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
iwitw,Thanks. Some melatonin, chamomile tea and I was (finally) good to go. Got about 4 1/2 hrs. Good enough to get through the day without dragging.

I'm very impressed w/new IC. Even think the first meeting contributed to the insomnia: she really got me thinking - and questioning - last night.

have you tried valerian? it's an herb, works on the same receptors as Valium and that group of drugs, but has none of the side effects. gotta take the pill form, tho, and not the tea--it smells like dirty socks. but it works very very well, and is so safe that it's recommended during pregnancy.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/21/10 03:28 AM
Thanks, buffet. Enjoy the new place/new life...and make them both unmistakably your own.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/21/10 03:40 AM
fm, thanks. At least last night's insomnia was the first one in a while. New IC is very attuned into The Journey from Abandonment to Healing and will use it as part of our session work. But she absolutely insisted I buy You Are The One You've Been Waiting For by F.C. Scwarz and get started on it.

Ordered it last night. Amazon didn't have it so I wound up getting it from The Center For Self Leadership

www.selfleadership.org

Which looks like a very interesting wbsite/organization, though I only skimmed it after purchasing the book.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/21/10 03:47 AM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
have you tried valerian? it's an herb, works on the same receptors as Valium and that group of drugs, but has none of the side effects. gotta take the pill form, tho, and not the tea--it smells like dirty socks. but it works very very well, and is so safe that it's recommended during pregnancy.
Yep, got that, too. Never could quite put my finger on that smell but you nailed it. Valium was actually an attempt by pharma to synthesize valerian so they could patent it ($$$, of course).

Hey, you want another great calmness/sleep herb with a putrid smell and awful name? Try Skullcap. Puts me right out!

Anyway, no insomnia tonight, so thanks all and goodnight tired
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/21/10 11:03 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
have you tried valerian? it's an herb, works on the same receptors as Valium and that group of drugs, but has none of the side effects. gotta take the pill form, tho, and not the tea--it smells like dirty socks. but it works very very well, and is so safe that it's recommended during pregnancy.
Yep, got that, too. Never could quite put my finger on that smell but you nailed it. Valium was actually an attempt by pharma to synthesize valerian so they could patent it ($$$, of course).

Hey, you want another great calmness/sleep herb with a putrid smell and awful name? Try Skullcap. Puts me right out!

Anyway, no insomnia tonight, so thanks all and goodnight tired

really? I did not know that about valerian!! Six years in the poison control center, and you've just taught me something new! Skullcap, eh? I don't usually have trouble sleeping, but I'll keep that in mind! hope you slept well.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/21/10 11:06 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
fm, thanks. At least last night's insomnia was the first one in a while. New IC is very attuned into The Journey from Abandonment to Healing and will use it as part of our session work. But she absolutely insisted I buy You Are The One You've Been Waiting For by F.C. Scwarz and get started on it.

Ordered it last night. Amazon didn't have it so I wound up getting it from The Center For Self Leadership

www.selfleadership.org

Which looks like a very interesting wbsite/organization, though I only skimmed it after purchasing the book.

ok, now I gotta check it out. we are book-like-minded.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/21/10 07:39 PM
g-man--you like that inner-child, inner-family stuff, eh?! it's good stuff...kinda odd in the beginning, but it really works.
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/22/10 04:59 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
fm, thanks. At least last night's insomnia was the first one in a while. New IC is very attuned into The Journey from Abandonment to Healing and will use it as part of our session work. But she absolutely insisted I buy You Are The One You've Been Waiting For by F.C. Scwarz and get started on it.
It sounds like she's a great person to work with! I look forward to reading about how it goes...
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/22/10 05:19 AM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
g-man--you like that inner-child, inner-family stuff, eh?! it's good stuff...kinda odd in the beginning, but it really works.
Yep, ever since John Bradshaw's work in the late 70s/early 80s.

It probably sounds odd - if not schizophrenic - but my real name is Bill and when my thinking goes "wrong," Bill usually has a talk with Billy, validates him, reassures him, and, as author Terry Real says, tells him to take his sticky little hands off the steering wheel! smile
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/22/10 05:23 AM
fm,
Originally Posted By: flowmom
It sounds like she's a great person to work with! I look forward to reading about how it goes...
She is. Don't recall if I mentioned this in a previous post, but I "interviewed" three potential new ICs. I could tell she was good and that she was a no-nonsense person, but what decided it for me was that after spending an hour with her, as i was walking to my car I felt - as odd as this might sound - cared for.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/22/10 10:17 AM
That is just excellent! no doubt it indicates that "Billy" was engaged as well as "Bill." And if you're doing that kind of work--and it seems you know what works for you, and inner child stuff does--that's exactly the kind of feeling you want to have.

Love Bradshaw, btw. Always have.

Self-aware men are hot. wink
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/22/10 03:31 PM
I just picked up "The Journey from Abandonment to Healing." I like what I'm reading so far.
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/22/10 04:50 PM
Good work, Gardener.

Journey From A-H is good. It was such a relief to read about my physical symptoms!

I will mention it to my new IC, who last week gave me CD's on "Radical Self-Acceptance."

Keep posting, I keep checking in!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/23/10 05:40 AM
Livid journaling again!(Part Two) mad
I apologize for being overly wordy (moi? Gardener? Wordy?) blush This however, is my longest post in 11 months.

No doubt, some of you remember this following post from just five days ago:(I will attempt to shorten it, somewhat)
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Livid journaling again!
Today I am both showing the house (Open House) myself without my Broker (long story) and showing the upstairs Master Bedroom Suite to potential renters.

X shows up with some paperwork during one showing. I had asked her to call before coming over which she, of course, ignored.
I good-naturedly told her about the four sale showings and made the mistake of saying I have the MBS advertised for rent. She replies that since I may be realizing income from the place, she will not have to give me money towards expenses of the house any more.

Oh, no, no, no, says I. The damned Connecticut formula is so f'd up that despite her leaving me to come up with her half of house mortgage, taxes, insurance, utilities, upkeep for 17 months (covering an additional $1,500-$1,700 per month) to keep this place afloat so she can get her 50% of the proceeds when it's sold, her housing expenses went DOWN by $500+ when she moved into her apartment. Difference between her expenses and mine is about $500/month, so she only has to give me half of that difference - a whopping $240 - every month. And even that I do not get monthly: it will be in the form of a credit to me when the house is sold.

I told her I've been breaking my a$$ monetarily and physically to keep this place up and to spruce it up for sale while she does nothing.

She said (once AGAIN) that she offered to come back in December and take over if I moved out and that I agreed and then changed my mind! (how dare I?) I asked her if she was also interested in discussing the seventeen "agreements" we had that she changed her mind on after she left the house! No, of course not. Besides, she did not leave the house (that fog fiction, again!), she left me.

I told her to talk to her lawyer, find the non-existent stipulation in the divorce agreement that she "pays" less if I generate rental income to stay alive until we can sell her and my house. Told her it ain't gonna happen. As a matter of fact, I have logged over 350 hours of non-"normal" maintenance and sprucing up work to sell this place and I'll pursue reimbursement for that if she wants to start playing games.

Also, told her that since the divorce decree gives me sole responsibility to making sure this place stays in show-ready condition, I want her to getthe rest of her sh!t out of my home now so the basement will look more open, less cluttered.17 months and two apartments later is long enough for her to continue to "store" stuff, here. Fine, she says and took a few items she could fit in her car. She said she'd be back for more. "Not today," I said. "No," she replied. "Good," I said.

I then said in the future do not come to my home without my prior approval as stated in the divorce agreement.
Tonight, she sends me this email:
Originally Posted By: X
Gardener,
I spoke to (Mediator) about your plan to rent the rooms upstairs. She regrets not having addressed this in our agreement since the house is owned by both of us, but she is willing to help us negotiate how to proceed.
Of course this is open for discussion but, I thought I would send you a list of my concerns.
Please consider these points:

We need to find out about increased liability and insurance (if necessary) before anyone can move in.
No one can move in without a formal leaseóeven month-to-month.
Both our signatures should accompany the renter's on the leasing agreement.
The proceeds should be shared by us both. (Mediator will help us determine a fair split.)
I feel it's only fair you have this information so you can think about this and prepare for a discussion. Mediator can arrange a phone conference with us both.

Please let me or Mediator know if you will participate.

Thanks,
X
MY immediate, I-have-friggin'-HAD-it-reply? (.CC'ing Mediator)
(And no, I did not, could not, would not wait 48 hours):
Originally Posted By: Gardener
X,
I will no longer entertain or attempt to rent the upstairs.

Despite our separation/divorce agreement - and your reluctance or inability to face the simple economic fact that your monthly "nut" is - and has been for eighteen months - equal to or less than it was before you left. Mine is - and has been doubled.

And please don't give me that tired old mantra about me changing my mind about letting you move back in December unless you also want to discuss the fact that you said you would never live here again regardless of our outcome - and then changed your mind. And unless you want to discuss the seventeen agreements you proposed regarding our temporary separation which you promptly and systematically reneged on.

I am handling the doubled expenses of carrying this house - with extreme difficulty - in order for there to still be a house to sell so that you can share in the proceeds, a fact that has - and continues to completely elude you. It is unfortunate and quite disappointing that your greed - and need to pursue legal counsel on same - has put an end to my plan that would have greatly eased the burden of keeping this house going until it is sold - for both our benefits.

If renting the upstairs means you'll receive dime of the proceeds, that is enough for me to permanently eliminate it as an option.

It's off. I am pulling the ad. There is no way I will rent it now.

And since you're all about equity and fairness, I would like to hear your proposal for compensating me for the over 350 hours (and related expenses) I have spent thus far in painting, sprucing, mulching, planting, clearing brush, seeding lawn, making repairs, etc., to better stage this house for sale while you do absolutely nothing to contribute in that effort - a concerted effort which must be done to facilitate the sale.

(Mediator, I will contact you in the near future to discuss recompense for this considerable (sole) effort of time and expense on my part.)

X, with the rental now out of the equation, I respectfully request that you do not contact me at all unless it pertains to any of the following:

1) Our 2009 tax return.
2) The house sale.
3) Any stipulation in our Divorce agreement.
4) Your obtaining access to the house for your possessions or
5) Matters of life and death.

Gardener
As I've crudely said before in one of my past posts: "Eff me?? Eff you!!!"

And, funny, but my one post tonight (before getting that email) was going to be, simply: "Realized today that I have actually been feeling quite happy lately. Boy, it's been a while!"

(Actually, still am, despite this) grin

Sorry for the record-setting length, friends. Thanks for reading.
Posted By: BobbiJo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/23/10 06:28 AM
Wow, came down here bc my ex stirred me awake at 1 am and now I am pissed off by yours! Grr!

The total arrogance and sense of entitlement is just astonishing to me. Probably shouldn't be by now, but it is!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/23/10 08:39 AM
Thanks, BiobbiJo,
Like I said in a later post the same day as Sunday's first post on this
Originally Posted By: Gardener
But the chutzpah! And the money! Why must it always come down to money?!? MoneyMoneyMoneyMoney!
I'll never understand, I guess.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/23/10 10:33 AM
I'm sorry, Gardener. The greed and need for control never cease to amaze me with these things. I'd suggest burying a statue of St. Joseph to speed the sale of your house so this can all be behind you. Couldn't hurt!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/23/10 11:58 AM
Thanks, hm,
I'll try anything at this point. Doesn't the statue have to be in a certain location or facing a certain direction or something?

Broker scheduled an open house for tomorrow. Gotta keep sprucing up and remain hopeful on that.

Pity, this morning I emailed a grad student who looked at the MBS on Sunday and was all set to go. Told him it is now not going to be rented at all due to ex-W/co-owner legal $ B.S. putting a halt to it. He only needed it for four months, too which was perfect.
I'll be damned if I'll give her one red cent for me advertising it, showing it, negotiating it and living with a stranger to keep the damn place viable and afloat so she can get her precious profit from it after not contributing said red cent toward the house in a year and a half!
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/23/10 11:58 AM
You know Gman, I was thinking about your reply, and trying to come up with a reason you should have waited 48 hours, or changed the way in which you replied..

But I just can't come up with any....

So good for you! I'd like to see how the mediator replies to your request for compensation. I have my suspicions, but let us know how she does.. :o)

Hope today is ok for you..
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/23/10 12:05 PM
iwiotw,
Originally Posted By: iwantittowork
I'd like to see how the mediator replies to your request for compensation. I have my suspicions, but let us know how she does.. :o)
So will I. But I have to do some homework and record-checking first. I pulled the 350 hrs out of my hat on the fly.
Originally Posted By: iwantittowork
Hope today is ok for you..
Thanks. Gotta be uphill from here. It'll be interesting to see her reply, if there is one.

Also, not hopeful re: Mediator. Mediator was Mediocre and X & I both had to call in our own lawyers anyway which, of course, is what mediation is designed to preclude.
Posted By: whiskey.tango Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/23/10 12:18 PM
HM is right, St. Joseph sells houses. It is recommended that you bury him upside down, facing the street - I've also heard to put him near the For Sale sign. He's worked for me and all of my family.

Also, the usual tips. Bake something sweet before showing. (or dab vanilla on the light bulbs - I like the baking thing better). Feng shui - put live flowers around the house, especially in areas where you'd like to draw attention.

You've got plenty of people thinking good thoughts for you - this will happen.

WT
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/23/10 01:03 PM
Hey G---sorry that you have to deal with this crap. Just think it will be done soon (hopefully!)

You know it is a shame that some kinda company like oh say...Gardner Homes LLC could not "buy" the property for less than it is worth even to get you out of that situation and than "Gardener Homes LLC" may be in a better position to renovate/repair and than ultimately sell your home for a better "more fair" price wink smirk whistle
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/23/10 01:50 PM
Hi Gardener,

Your former spouse made some salient points:

-find out if there's increased liability and insurance (if necessary) before anyone can move in.

-No one can move in without a formal leaseóeven month-to-month.

-Require a signature from the homeowner.

However, once the divorce decree is signed, any changes require a modification in which both parties appear in court before the judge (after filing the appropriate paperwork) and swear that both understand and agree to the modification. Or perhaps with just the mediator. Additionally a quick letter to your lawyer will give you a basis on how to proceed. A simple no would probably suffice. However, any change requires YOUR involvement which you are not obligated to participate in.

It is your right to determine how your former spouse contacts you. I thought at some point you'd told her that any meetings would take place away from the home. It is inappropriate for her to show up at your door whenever she wants.

Focusing on the present, taking accountability and being realistic of the past provides a firm foundation for healing and moving forward.

It was very hard for me to give up the image I believed to be true of my marriage. After thwacking that dead horse til it was glue and beyond, still took time. The belief of the incredible beauty of your relationship was once true. However, the reality of what it devolved to is harder to shake. I needed to believe my rose colored glasses scenario to survive a bad situation.

Let go of the seventeen agreements that were not met, etc. It's old news and has no effect on her actions.

Strip the emotion, the rose colored glasses. Things were not perfect for 17 years. Each of you went through extreme turmoil during the union which was not resolved.

It broke. It wasn't (or couldn't be fixed). It ended.

To paraphrase what a fellow poster (kml?) said, her former spouse was so unhappy, he had to gnaw his arm off to get away.

It hurts. Your new counselor sounds good. Do what it takes to be healthy. To stop falling on the sword which keeps hurting you.

Define your boundaries for what works for you, not what accommodates her. You still give her the power to yank your chain. Make your own decisions. Decide what works for you.


Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/23/10 02:18 PM
Quote:
I'll try anything at this point. Doesn't the statue have to be in a certain location or facing a certain direction or something?

I've heard upside down and facing away from the house. The basic concept is that you must make him uncomfortable. Let me just say that this is Catholic culture, not doctrine!! However, it works. You can generally go to a Catholic bookstore or supply store and they have small plastic statues for just this purpose. Then, once it sells, you're supposed to excavate him and place him in a place of honor. I'm jus' sayin'.
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/23/10 02:57 PM
Oh, ugh, Gardener.

I did rent out the spare bedroom. My lawyer cautioned against it--probably for the same reasons--more income off the place--but I really did it for the company.

Having read your note, now I am terrified that this will somehow be a problem in the house/property division. I think I will try to preclude that by giving up on arguing over the joint account--like you, I have put in almost ALL the money (and of course the apartment rentals) that is in the account now. And X is claiming half as his. Fine. Take it. I'll do whatever it takes to build cash back up again.

I can only hope that seeing your X behave in this way helps even more to let go of the love and life that was. The one you loved has so clearly died, if you will. You can mourn that person, and continue moving on.

This other wacko stranger who keeps showing up and making demands--you don't need to worry about her feelings at all. Your return email was FINE. No need anymore for the patient 48 hours waiting.

Sorry you have to keep dealing with this. I say bury St. Joseph, flowers, vanilla, and feng shui all the way to get the place sold. The good care and work you put into the place just adds to your karmic balance. The house knows you are taking good care of it.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/23/10 03:07 PM
G-Woman,
Thank you for your input and always-wise advice. You should know, however, that I agree with the three salient points:
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
Your former spouse made some salient points:
-find out if there's increased liability and insurance (if necessary) before anyone can move in.
-No one can move in without a formal leaseóeven month-to-month.
-Require a signature from the homeowner.
But not that
Originally Posted By: X
The proceeds should be shared by us both.
Especially when absolutely nothing pertaining to this house has been "shared by us both" in 18 months. Not a dime -nor a lifted finger - from she who expects her 50% of the proceeds.
Two more emails were exchanged and now I am done. Their abridged versions follow:
Originally Posted By: X(red)G(black)
"I am relieved that you will not pursue renting without following the proper procedures." You misunderstand: I will no longer pursue renting, period. This in light of your expecting to share in the proceeds of my advertising it, showing it and living with a total stranger while you, just as in preparing the house for sale, do nothing and contribute nothing to the process.On Monday, I declined an offer from a student who would rent the rooms if I were to buy/provide an inexpensive bed. After receiving your email last night, I cancelled (Name), a "professional from Danbury doing Graduate work at UCONN" who was all set to take it for a minimum of four months (or less, of course, if it were to be sold in the interim). This morning I removed the ad from craigslist.
"I will not look to you to reimburse me for expenses that I have incurred from moving, cleaning, and painting 2 times in less than a year."
I believe I moved you expense-free the first time. And I'm neither co-owner of nor am realizing any (increased) profit from the level of care or improvements you made to your two apartments Yet you will benefit from the untold hours, work and meticulous care I put into improving and staging this property since it was placed on the market.Henceforth I will be extending no further effort other than mowing the lawn and keeping the interior clean and "show-ready." The D states: "Gardener shall continue to cooperate in the efforts to sell the home by keeping the home and property prepared for all showings..." Clear enough. But I maintain that eighteen months and two apartments later is more than ample time for you to be keeping all your boxes in storage here in the basement. This clause should include keeping the basement uncluttered. I have been doing this by removing my stuff in order to make it look larger to prospects. I believe it is past time that you do the same by removing your stored boxes to your own home. I will, however, abide by Mediator's interpretation of this.

Henceforth I will be extending no further effort other than mowing the lawn and keeping the interior clean and "show-ready."

"I will pursue the matter legally ó #4. You will be notified when the hearing is scheduled."
I have no idea to what you are referring with this, nor do I care. The #4 I referenced was from The D: "If X seeks to go to the home, she will contact Gardener first." and is one of the five categories of contact I stated I will accept and respond to.

Schedule your hearing.

Goodbye.
And I agree with everything else you advise, Gypsy. Thank you.p.s.: How are you feeling? How's the bronchial asthma? Gone, I hope.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/23/10 10:45 PM
Well, lo and behold, three hours after my last email to her, X sends me an email:

Subject: I don't want any of the rent money.

Wonder who got to her? Mediator? Certainly not her non-existent sense of fair play, that's for sure.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/24/10 01:34 AM
aver,
Let me tell you: your post was a post that, simply put, just made me feel so good.
Thank you.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/24/10 02:14 AM
I know I'm in the minority here but some of your emails seemed to be awfully angry. It's not the level-headed Gardener I know from the boards.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/24/10 03:51 AM
CTH,
Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope
I know I'm in the minority here but some of your emails seemed to be awfully angry. It's not the level-headed Gardener I know from the boards.
You think so? Well, I'm always willing to examine a well-meaning observation, but in the last week I got (really) peeved only twice. Having come upon the idea of relieving dire financial sitch by renting 2nd Master Bedroom Suite, X (showing up unannounced) first announces that that means she'll have to "credit me with less $ when the house sells," and then last night she demands a portion of the rent proceeds if I do rent it (after contributing not a cent to this house in a year and a half!)

Frankly, after examining both my posts and my heart, those were the only two things that "set me off" in quite a while. Lately the alien life-form comes out of left field and it's always about money, money, money!

And this from the end of last night's livid post:
Originally Posted By: Gardener
And, funny, but my one post tonight (before getting that email) was going to be, simply: "Realized today that I have actually been feeling quite happy lately. Boy, it's been a while!"

(Actually, still am, despite this) grin
Thanks, CTH. I'll give that some more thought, even though I thought I'd reached an even keel lately (except for last $unday and la$t night!) grin

Gotta go. Rene Marie and Awoken just started playin' on the ipod!
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/24/10 05:00 AM
(((Gardener))) so triggering. Wise words from Gypsy.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/24/10 05:19 AM
Thanks, fm,
And after all that greedy nonsensical back and forth, she flips on a dime shortly thereafter:
Originally Posted By: gardener
Well, lo and behold, three hours after my last email to her, X sends me an email:
Originally Posted By: x
Subject: I don't want any of the rent money.
I think my being so strident spooked her. Especially with the "don't contact me anymore unless...Goodbye" For sure, it wasn't her sense of fair play or sudden reasonableness. crazy
Go figure.
Actually, I don't even try to figure anymore.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/24/10 10:47 AM
Quote:
Actually, I don't even try to figure anymore.


Good for you Gman! That is a key moment when you get to this point, I believe.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/24/10 11:10 AM
gardener--there's nothing wrong with appropriate anger, especially at this stage of things. besides, it sounds as if you regained your composure and serenity relatively quickly.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/24/10 04:39 PM
fm,
p.s.:
Originally Posted By: flowmom
Wise words from Gypsy.

That's redundant, actually! wink grin
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/26/10 01:11 AM
Dinner with long-time best bud last night. Great time. At one point, I went out to my truck to get something. When I came back, saw an attractive woman (late 30s) outside, looking upset, cigarette in mouth, frantically fumbling through her purse, seemingly holding back tears.

I offered her a light. "Thank you," says she. "You're welcome."

And then, completely, inexplicably, 180ing out of my "under the radar" comfort zone, I found myself introducing myself. She did the same.

I then said, "Some might find this offensive and if you do, I apologize. But may I say that you are one very pretty woman." "Why, thank you! How nice of you."

Regarding obvious tears, I said, "I hope your night gets better." She said, "It just did. Thank you."

That was it. She felt better. I felt good. I had stepped outside that "zone." Wasn't looking for a pick-up or anything.

And then I went back inside to my friend after a most uncharacteristic, non-Gardener initiated exchange.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/26/10 01:53 AM
excellent. you are becoming.
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/26/10 02:31 AM

Very cool!
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/26/10 01:13 PM
Good for you for stepping out of the comfort zone.

And I think the anger you are venting here towards the alien life form is appropriate, and you do seem to get back on keel again.

Anger and all the rest of it is part of the process, and you keep moving towards the positive and leaving more of the negative behind each day.

Next time, ask if you can give her your number!!
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/26/10 02:38 PM
I was reading a book regarding healing from broken relationships, that venus and mars one. It made an interesting point in the way men and women grieve about the loss of a relationship. I have pointed this out before, so bear with me if you have read it.

Men and women generally deny one key ingredient to the grieving process. Women tend to skip the anger phase, rather taking the blame onto themselves. Men tend to skip the sadness/sorrow phase, rather having been taught to be a man and suck it up. Both elements are key to being able to overcome the loss of a relationship. So I think that you are doing well in the fact that you are allowing yourself to grieve, and in the long run, that will make you a stronger man.
Posted By: NoCodeBlues Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/26/10 04:41 PM
G,

I don't have much of a leg to stand on regarding the anger issues. I've been raked over the coals pretty hard here in the DB forums for venting here and the (wrongly-assumed) perception I might let those emotions out before my children. (If that were the actual case, I'd fully agree, but I won't get off on that tangent now.)

I will say that I can whole-heartedly agree with what the others have said about anger -- it is indeed a part of the process. And in fact, if one does not properly vent the natural and expected anger we feel from a given situation, especially one so extreme as D and its aftermath, we are only laying the foundation for a fall later -- either a breakdown, sickness or some other physiological and/or mental reaction.

Having said that, the simple fact is there is no sin in anger itself, only in what we do with it. As the Apostle Paul said, "Be Angry and Sin Not." So don't worry about it. Vent here and in other healthy ways, and do not let your emotions lead you astray. Feel your emotions, work your way through them, but do not let them master you.

Easier said than done, I know.

Best regards.

Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/26/10 10:10 PM
Very cool about stepping out of your comfort zone Gardener!

I'm late to this, but like the others said, some anger is part of the process. Appropriate anger is not a bad thing- it's properly vented, and you obviously recovered quickly. I think it can be a powerful motivator sometimes, and help give us the backbone to enforce boundaries. I doubt your xW would have changed her tune like she did if she hadn't picked up on your anger.

Have a good week, Gardener-
Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/27/10 11:39 AM
Quote:
I've been raked over the coals pretty hard here in the DB forums for venting here and the (wrongly-assumed) perception I might let those emotions out before my children. (If that were the actual case, I'd fully agree, but I won't get off on that tangent now.)

me too, and that right there is why I mostly post positives these days. this no longer seems a safe place to vent--and it was my only safe place. it's just not worth it when you have to then go back and defend and explain and still get raked over the coals for not being somewhere emotionally that you're not. I feel for you.
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/27/10 12:12 PM
It is a safe place to vent. I'm sorry you feel otherwise. I hope it'll change for you regarding that. I hope you'll come here to 'vent' whenever you feel the need.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/27/10 01:49 PM
Sorry HM and others that you don't feel you can vent here. I seem to do my fair share of venting for sure.. smile

I hope you feel you can post what you feel, maybe people are just not reacting well to how things are worded in a forum posting?

It is hard to get the feeling of what someone is writing, and what's behind it..

For me, I try not to take what people write to me personally, as how they interpret or react to what I write is something I can't control..
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/28/10 04:21 AM
Thanks, all.
Two unrelated points, so two posts.
Post 1:
I have finally hit the anger stage of having been suddenly - and inexplicably - abandoned. Not rage. Just good, healthy it's-about-friggin'-time anger.
The Journey From Abandonment To Healing - and my new IC have helped tremendously.

I am an easy-going man and slow to anger. And my anger has usually been measured and appropriate and, I think, well expressed. Admittedly, this was not true as a younger man, in my twenties or early thirties, long before I met X Mrs. G.
I have realized with IC's help that I virtually eliminated (expressed) anger from my emotional repertoire over the years with X.

X's father was physically abusive - a beater - and a rager. As a result, when I did get justifiably angry (we never really "fought" or yelled), but when I would get justifiably angry and even raised my voice - and I'm talking decibels, here, not yelling or screaming at all - X's "old tapes" replayed and she reacted to her father, not to me. Reacted as if I was yelling, screaming, raging. Over time, I reactively toned it down so much that I damn near eliminated it...out of fear of her over-the-top over-reaction to it.
Not good.

Whence came resentment.

Resentment that was my contribution to the downfall of the marriage. That and not knowing about -nor therefore setting - boundaries.

Now, I am mad again. Over the bomb, the abandonment of me, marriage, vows, home and family.

Healthy.
About damned time, in one sense.
Too damned late in another sense.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/28/10 04:38 AM
As promised, Post #2:

I will be off these boards for several days. Not sure if I mentioned this in a previous post, but a couple of weeks ago, older S, 34 sent me round trip tickets to Denver to visit him for five days saying, basically - God bless him - "Hey, you: get out here for a few days. You need it. I miss you."

So, tomorrow's (this morning's) flight is at 8:00. I will be back Sunday evening.

Been dying to see him and his new small house atop a mountain with a 360 degree view of...mountains.

So I will be off these boards because of my five-day itinerary.
Let's see...where is that itinerary? Oh, yeah! Here it is:

Nederland Colorado Itinerary
April 28 - May 2

1. Relax

End Nederland, Colorado Itinerary


I'll probably check in here before I leave in a few hours.
But whether I do or don't, Goodbye.

And remember our two common basics here:
1) We are all - all - greater than the challenges we face.
2) We are all - all - better people than the spouses who wronged us.

And you all saved my sanity this past year. Thank you and God bless you.
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/28/10 05:04 AM
Have a great trip Gardener! smile

And I think it's a big breakthrough that you're feeling the anger and gaining insight about why that's been hard for you.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/28/10 05:11 AM
Thanks, aver
Originally Posted By: avermont
Next time, ask if you can give her your number!!
But Gardener is nowhere near relationship-ready at this point.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/28/10 05:14 AM
Thanks, fm.
See ya Sunday. Have a good week.
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/28/10 05:41 AM
Well, I got busted on for worrying that one "date" with a guy was the wrong thing to do, cause I am no wise ready for an R.

And many people chimed in and said "it's just a date! don't make such a big deal out of it!"

But I understand.

Enjoy your trip. Time away will be good.
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/28/10 05:43 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Thanks, aver
Originally Posted By: avermont
Next time, ask if you can give her your number!!
But Gardener is nowhere near relationship-ready at this point.

Enjoying the company of another human isn't quite the same thing as a relationship. I would advise speading the wings a little.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/28/10 05:55 AM
VH
Originally Posted By: Virtually_Handsome
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Thanks, aver
Originally Posted By: avermont
Next time, ask if you can give her your number!!
But Gardener is nowhere near relationship-ready at this point.

Enjoying the company of another human isn't quite the same thing as a relationship. I would advise speading the wings a little.
Very true. Was even thinking that as I was posting...
G'Man's gotta get moving. Even just a little bit.
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/28/10 05:58 AM
Believe me, I understand the hesitancy! I have had to force myself to do things that are uncomfortable. But it feels good.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/28/10 06:02 AM
aver,
Originally Posted By: avermont
Well, I got busted on for worrying that one "date" with a guy was the wrong thing to do, cause I am no wise ready for an R.

And many people chimed in and said "it's just a date! don't make such a big deal out of it!"

But I understand.
I didn't bust on you, did I? Don't think I would, but I do tend to urge people to be as (over) cautious - or gun-shy - as I am.
Not good.
Originally Posted By: avermont
Enjoy your trip. Time away will be good.
Thanks. I will. Back to packing!
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/28/10 06:30 AM
Hey Gardener -

listen to some of this while you are enjoing the view in Colorado...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwARpaKHx_w
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/28/10 06:49 AM
Thank you, Kerry,

JD's another one of Gardener's top ten artists (like Mary Chapin Carpenter).
I can't wait.

My StepDaughter lived in Boulder from '94-'01 and we loved visiting there. When she moved to Chicago in '01, we were glad she was living (somewhat) closer to home, but knew we'd miss Boulder. Later in that same year, my son moved to Boulder, so Colorado's been like a home away from home for some 16 years now.
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/28/10 02:13 PM
No, no, you didn't bust on me.

But I think VH is right--it is a process of learning how to say "hello" to someone new. Baby steps baby steps.

Ask your heart to give some consideration to the faintest tickling of the mere possibility that perhaps someday you might want to be in an R again...

I have enjoyed the company of my friend H, the guy I set up the first "date" with. We have both been honest about not being ready for an R. So in the meantime, we get out a little bit, we support each other a little bit, we learn how to be with other people a little bit.

Chatterbug has the best approach to 'dating.' Pleasant company, a nice time, not a big deal.

Not saying that I can do this yet, either! But eventually I will.

And so will you.

Hope your trip is fantabulous!
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/28/10 03:24 PM
Quote:
JD's another one of Gardener's top ten artists

hey, I know you won't get this for a few days but I'll forget if I don't post it now!! blonde, you know.

I love JD too; actually met him a couple of times. attending one of his concerts set off a chain of events that brought about a spiritual rebirth. grateful for that.

hope you're enjoying the mountains!!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/30/10 03:24 PM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
Originally Posted By: Gardener
JD's another one of Gardener's top ten artists

hey, I know you won't get this for a few days but I'll forget if I don't post it now!! blonde, you know.

I love JD too; actually met him a couple of times.
NO, really?!? Well,I'm jealous!!
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
attending one of his concerts set off a chain of events that brought about a spiritual rebirth.
Not surprised at that in the least!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/30/10 03:27 PM
All,

Checking in. Have read some of your recent posts to stay abreast.

Gardener Update

Aaahhhhhhh.............

End Gardener Update
Posted By: poet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 04/30/10 05:03 PM
Gardner,

AAAAHHHhhhhhh ha ha!

End post. LOL

poet
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/02/10 11:21 PM
Hi,
I usually check in on all of you before posting here, but I'm kind of tired.
I had a great, relaxing trip to Colorado. S34 lives on mountaintop heaven.
So good to see him (been a little over a year).
Relaxed, hiked. Never knew what day/date or time it was and didn't want to know.
Perspective takes time and distance. Lord knows I've had the time, but the sheer distance from here was refreshing.

Getting out of "limo" (beat-up suburban) and lugging suitcase into an empty house was rough.

I feel nothing for this place anymore. It's a memory-filled, empty $-hemorrhaging white elephant that is holding me back from moving on - spiritually and physically.
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/03/10 02:54 PM
Gardener--

Yeah..the stepping into the empty house...I feel with you. A great trip, and knowing what awaits you at the end.

It will sell soon, though. And remember the house appreciates the care you are taking of it, even if you feel the ghosts.

I hope you got some pictures while you were visiting your son--get them printed as 8x10's, buy some cheap frames from anywhere, and get them on the walls!!

(())
Posted By: cbih Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/03/10 05:35 PM
A little Monday gift for you, Gardener:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6451455n

Enjoy!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/03/10 07:38 PM
Thank you, cbih, for both posts.

That was great! Reminds me to go get that new cd. Forgot it was released the day I left for CO.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/03/10 10:50 PM
aver,
Yep.
But the house has long since been Gardenerized & de-Xed.
And while I'm still enjoying it all - and manifesting the right next owner in the process, enough already: the sooner the better is all...
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/04/10 02:56 PM
G---just catching up sounds like your trip was incredible! How did it feel to get away for awhile. I have been thinking that something like that would be just what the doc ordered---although mine would have to come with a beach, sand, and unlimited drink service!!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/05/10 03:36 AM
Buffet,
Thanks for checking in.
Originally Posted By: Buffet
G---just catching up sounds like your trip was incredible! How did it feel to get away for awhile. I have been thinking that something like that would be just what the doc ordered---although mine would have to come with a beach, sand, and unlimited drink service!!
It was great! My son's a good man: a real resourceful, determined, doing-everything-he-wants-on-his-terms kind of guy (and has been pretty much since birth!). And as mellow as the day is long. Great to see him and his beautiful corner of the world.

And it was what the doc ordered. Should be for you, too. Do it. Whatever/wherever it is, do it.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/05/10 04:34 AM
Journaling,

For those of you who recall the debate with x over my renting out the upstairs Master Bedroom, which debacle I ended with this:
Originally Posted By: Gardener
X, with the rental now out of the equation, I respectfully request that you do not contact me at all unless it pertains to any of the following:

1) Our 2009 tax return.
2) The house sale.
3) Any stipulation in our Divorce agreement.
4) Your obtaining access to the house for your possessions or
5) Matters of life and death.
Lord, a'mighty, it worked! Not a peep in twelve days! A record. A peaceful record.

Can't say I'm really working through my (finally arrived) Anger phase. Just feeling it. And reviewing, or remaining cognizant of all the many valid reasons to be angry. It's not consuming me, by any means, but it is a kind of mental version of my oft repeated crude phrase: "Eff me? Eff you!" cool

Great new IC is working with me on that. Re: The Journey From Abandonment To Healing, I was stuck way too long in the Shattered phase ("Lost - everything is lost. gone: partner, companion, wife, lover, etc., home, hearth, family. Two wonderful stepchildren, one new granddaughter, everything!").

That and the Internalizing phase ("She. Left. Me. Ergo, it must be me, my fault, my faults, my shortcomings, my inadequacies, etc.")

P!ssed is good. She chose to cut rather than confront, run instead of repair, remove instead of improve.

She got exactly what she (deep down) wanted...and, hopefully what she needed as a person. But it was the unprincipled, traitorous, coward's way out. I would never have done it to her and I certainly did not deserve such treatment. None of us here did.

New IC wants me to really feel my way through this.
More importantly, she is concentrating on getting me to take better care of myself - to care for myself. Lifelong "Mr. Nice Guy" habit: everything and everybody else comes before my wants and needs.

How many times, after a another heartbreak, a setback, a failed DB attempt, the D, etc., have I thought - and posted - "Now, me. Time now for me" only to revert to my still-can't-get-over-it, paralyzed, almost house-bound victim stance.

And that must change. It's a year and a half, now and I still look like sh!t and more often than not feel like sh!t, even with the three day a week 5:00 am gym visits.

Good food. Good fun. Rest. Physical activity apart from my professional work. IC says I neglect these basics. And she's right. Interestingly, they're all physical needs. I make time every every evening to meditate, to read, to listen to music, to relax. But the physical I mostly ignore. Every morning I jump out of bed and hop to it, get going!

IC insists that for this one week until I see her again, I give the first full hour upon awakening each day to me. My needs. My wants. And slooowly. She wants me to regain my mindfulness (as do I) and insists the first hour be my mindful hour. To set the tone.

Working on it. Have to consciously work on it, live it as #1 priority.

It's all baby steps, friends. Life is baby steps.

Thanks.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/06/10 03:02 AM
yeah, that term "working through" is kind of a cliche that doesn't have much meaning. I think it just means being willing to be present in the moment with your emotions, without running from them or medicating or numbing out or distracting yourself. going internally wherever they take you, and occasionally stepping back and seeing how it all looks from the perspective of who you are now. anger is empowering, helpful in the moving forward.

I know what you mean about spending too much time in the "shattering" phase--except it was as much time as we needed to be there, I think. if you moved on to the next phase, you weren't too stuck. those are the most painful parts, tho--that coming-to-terms with the shock of it all, grasping the new reality. I like the anger phase much better!!!

hang in there for that first hour of mindfulness--it will get to be a habit, and a good one.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/06/10 04:42 AM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
I know what you mean about spending too much time in the "shattering" phase--except it was as much time as we needed to be there, I think.
Good point. Thanks for that perspective.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/06/10 05:19 AM
Brief journaling (Gardener? Brief?!) grin

Well the "peaceful, not a peep" run ended today, kinda.
Phone rang. It was X. I didn't answer. I never answer.
Phone then does its voicemail jingle. I don't listen to it. For hours. She's all chipper. "Hi, just wanted to tell you I'm at the house with Friend. Just taking some clippings of your lilies-of-the-valley. Wanted you to know. I'm not going into the house, though!"

Bet your arse you're not. Can't change the door locks but I can - and do - lock the storm doors to the two mud rooms/entrances. No key; they lock from the inside. And then I always exit by way of the garage door - which I've re-coded so it responds to my clicker only.

Sad. "Friend" is someone X avoided like the plague because she was a drama leech, "always trying to insinuate herself into my life," X would say. Now, since shortly after the Bomb? Best buds. Sad.

Have been corresponding with two officials from the National Asociation Of Social Workers with which I am filing formal complaint(s) against MC. One is my state's chairman. One is the Advocate they assigned to assist me. They are both appalled by the things I've written - the things he did - The criteria is definitely met for violations of three Standards and Ethics. But I can't believe the paperwork asks if I have witnesses! Um, yeah, I have two: the MC I'm filing against who sided with, was smitten with X and...X herself (who was mesmerized by MC). And do I have any documentation? Why, sure, I recorded every session! crazy

At one point early on I was asked, "What is the outcome you're looking for?" "Simple. I want someone to read this, look into it and say, 'you're right, Gardener.'"

Will I "win"? I doubt it.
Will I give MC some grief with this process? Yep.
Will MC lie in his official response? Undoubtedly.

Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
Been told repeatedly there are clear Ethical violations in Misrepresentation of Services, Termination of Services, and Conflict of Interest.

We'll see.

Have interviewed three prospects this week for renting upstairs master bedroom. Ain't tellin' X squat until whoever takes it is already moved in.

Oh, and I had another one of those...what're they called again? Oh, yeah!
Great days!
But it's way too late.
"Brief" Gardener signing off.
Will catch up with you guys tomorrow.
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/06/10 01:25 PM
You know, I like what your IC said about the first full hour of every day being for you. I think it is important for all of us to have that time, that "just me" time. And more often than not, I don't think we make it.

Okay so I guess I am behind, can you do a quick explain on the MC? I don't know that sitch...
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/06/10 06:24 PM
LolaL,
Originally Posted By: LolaL
Okay so I guess I am behind, can you do a quick explain on the MC? I don't know that sitch...
Quick? No.
-6 months MC. More like dual/simultaneous IC sessions "You stay on your side of the court; you stay on yours." I often complained we keep talking about talking but never talk.Wrote it in my ever-present MC journal each time. No discussion of marital issues.
-I also started noting things in my journal like "he's always siding with her," "Is this guy attracted to her?" "He keeps looking her up and down.""MC's attraction to W is palpable!"
-In first session, MC said he never sees couples individually unless sometimes once if it's really warranted. I saw him alone once. X said she saw him alone once. Months later X's benefits statement comes to our address. We saw him 13 times. I saw him once. She saw him 8 times alone.
-In second from last MC meeting, X, lost in thought, looking down says "You know, MC every time I'm in your den I wonder if its the same rug as this one here or just similar to it."(!!!) His office was 55 miles away. His home (home "office") was 77 miles away, so if she was there for IC, why travel 22 miles even farther?
-In the first meeting after she told me she wanted D he suddenly announced "Gardener, these sessions are over." "WHAT?" "Your marriage was dead when you walked in this door 6 months ago. Too much water over the dam. You should have come to me 3 - 4 years ago." He asked me to leave. Ushered me to door, said "Goodbye, Gardener. Good luck to you." Flabbergasted, flummoxed, I just left. And sat in the parking lot writing it all down.
-Went to same building, same time next week to talk to an IC. X was in the parking lot. Said she was seeing MC "One last time." A later benefits statement showed he was her IC/saw her weekly for the next five months. Then she finally did her change of address and I never saw another benefits statement again, so who knows?
-X told me she made D decision in 2/09. MC told her I don't need to know yet. She told me 4 months later.
-X told me MC told her not to tell me right away why she decided D because "He'll probably just debate you point-by-point on it"
-She told me why another 4 months later. And her "reason" was just plain bullsh!t.
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/06/10 07:05 PM
WOW - You sir, have been through the ringer!! I can understand your suspicions. Unethical is too good a word to use for this MC.

Choose your battles carefully so they dont consume too much of your time.
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/06/10 07:35 PM
Wow Gardener. I am absolutely speechless. The whole point of a MC is to be objective. Obviously he wasn't.

Take the bastage to the cleaners. He is just a legal prostitute.
Posted By: pollyanna Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/07/10 02:44 AM
Hi gardener - I just read your posts on Goals. I am envious of your freedom to do that. Be grateful of that. Lucky thing saving a stray dog as well. I wish you all the best. If you get your truck and it floats, come on down under and visit us down here !
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/07/10 03:15 AM
Than you, Pollyanna. Lofty and lengthy, but I am leaving. Big time. Far away. And let it be what it will be.
I'd love to go down under someday! Australia and New Zealand.
But after I head out I first have a lunch invitation from LolaL, who for some totally incomprehensible reason (to me) actually left El Paso to go live on the shore of Lake Erie (Bbrrrr)!
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/07/10 01:31 PM
Ah yes, but let me tell you the things I appreciate...LOL

El Paso may be warner, drier, and browner (sand...eeek), but I have to say that I would not truly have ever appreciated the change of seasons had I not been there. It is beautiful here, and I am so much more content.

Besides, Gardener Luv...winter is over. Spring is new, and green, and reborn wink ... Kinda like us....
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/07/10 11:42 PM
I'm with you, LolaL. Four seasons. The only way to live.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/08/10 12:08 AM
"Danger, Will Robinson, Danger!" "Potential Crash and Burn. Oh no!"

All along, Professional national organization - and my advocate appointed thereby - have told me there is a one-year statute of limitations in charging formal Ethical Violations by MC since he threw me out on 5/28/09.

So, National Organization and Advocate have been reviewing my submission and changes to same (suggested by them) over last few days, telling me, in effect, to "wrap it up and submit it; you've only got until 5/28/10."

Today they realize and email me that the six months of MC B.S., deceit, and Ethical Violations leading up to 5/28/09 may be discounted by Ethics Review Board since they are all more than one year ago!

But they assure me they are determined to seek a waiver on this. While their job is to guide me through the process and not give an "opinion", it has been interesting that every time they read an portion of my complaint and responded - verbally or via email - they have not simply said, "Do this," "Be more specific here."
No, almost every time they read a new section submitted by me, they tellingly prefaced their advice: "Oh, dear. Do this." "Appalling. Be more specific, here."

So I still have hope.

And if all I can go after him on with this statute of limitations thing is his unilaterally ending our MC ("Precipitous Separation") and throwing me out of his office ("Implied Force." "Intimidation"), seeing my wife as an IC beginning that day and for at least the next 5 months ("Conflict Of Interest") then, by God, I'll go after him on those alone, balls-out, and forget the other, prior-to-one-year Ethical violations!

Let the games begin!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/08/10 01:33 AM
LolaL, and...
Originally Posted By: LolaL
Besides, Gardener Luv...winter is over. Spring is new, and green, and reborn wink ... Kinda like us....
This, too. smile
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/08/10 04:17 PM
That MC sounds appalling.

And Gardener, I wish you would drop the proceedings. For you. That's in the past.

For whatever reason, your W was looking for a way out of your M and chose to use the MC to facilitate that. IMO your W bears full responsibility for her choice and you should hold her fully accountable. I get frustrated that there haven't been more advocates for our M, but I remind myself that H DIDN'T seek out people who would support our M or help him to reconnect with me and get his needs met. The choice to seek out people who are going to rip apart a M is a deliberate one.

I don't know if you read my post about my sister and her H going to my former IC for MC. When the MC showed that he was obviously biased against her H, even though she was desperate for validation and for the C to take her side, she stood up for her H was appalled by his behaviour. Not saying it was an equivalent situation, but I'm just trying to contrast what it looks like when there are M problems but the W is committed to working out the problems and is NOT going to let anyone get in the middle of that, including a C.

This is a good time for you to focus on the present Gardener. How can you seek pleasure today? What can you do today that will improve your quality of life? I'm sorry, I just don't see how processing that past betrayal helps you right now. This terrible MC stuff is about the story of Gardener being a victim. I want better for you Gardner! You were badly treated, but now is the time to reinforce your self-perception and calm, cool, collected, and confident man (Gnosis' 4 Cs).

hugs to you.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/09/10 04:55 AM
fm, thank you for all that.
In addition to doing the other things you suggest, calm, cool, collected, confident Gardener will hold trusted, deceitful "professional" MC accountable for unethical, behavior which has been acknowledged to me as such by three of his organization's leaders. I'm not on a vendetta: I don't want revenge. I want these issues reviewed and evaluated/validated by peer professionals.
What X did, needed to do, no longer concerns or upsets me.
But others may needlessly be hurt by this charlatan to whom they turn to for help. That should be prevented.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/09/10 05:14 AM
Gardener continuing-to-break-out-of-his-shell update.

I helped winter-gig buddy today by taking half his route as he (FedEx driver) was slammed by Mothers' Day flowers and gifts volume. Stopped by office of upscale apartment/condo association to drop off deliveries for not-at-home recipients. "No flowers for me?" says attractive office manager who proceeded to search on-line for my next stop which I couldn't find at all. Took quite some time and was very nice about it.

I then successfully found the place, stopped by a gas station and bought her a single rose, went back, thanked her and said, "Yes, a flower for you today." She was touched, thanked me, asked me my name, chatted and I left. Old Gardener would never (have the nerve to) do something like that. Felt good. And refreshingly un-me.

Went to local pub for dinner. Three lady friends sitting next to me chatting the whole time. One really caught my eye. My age. She left for Ladies Rooms as I was about to leave. I stopped her, introduced myself and asked for a word for a moment. "About what?" says she, skeptically/suspiciously.
I said I was divorced and not "out there" yet, don't even know how to get "out there."
No agenda, but as I was eating and overhearing you all chat, you caught my eye - and ear. I try to get out of my comfort zone at least once a day so I thought I'd tell you that the whole time I found you captivating...and, frankly, "gorgeous." "Why thank you," says she, and - get this - gives me her number and invites me to call if I'd like.
Who is this new Gardener?
Not sure, but he's feeling pretty damn good lately.
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/09/10 05:36 AM
Oh I am tickled! That sounds so great Gardener...you are so making efforts to get out there!

The compliments are great! Had someone said that to me, I would have been flattered beyond belief, so I think it is exceptional that you are making the first strides towards meeting new people!

Give her a call...coffee meet?
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/09/10 06:50 AM
Gardener! I finally found your thread - hey nice going yesterday! Way to break out of your shell! Just really wanted to say hi and see how you're doing (although I can see, sounds like you're doing pretty great!). Have you looked at any more guitars lately? Cheers from PG.
Posted By: poet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/09/10 05:32 PM
"Who is this new Gardener?
Not sure, but he's feeling pretty damn good lately."

Gardener,

You did two -- not one, but two -- things to me as I was reading your post. First, you brought a tear to my eye, when you brought that one lady a single rose back. (a joyful tear). Second, when you complimented the second lady and she GAVE YOU HER phone number. Wow wee! Ain't you DA man?!!!

I was just about to rush over to the other universe and give you my phone number. wink

not-so-pitiful poet whistle
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/09/10 07:46 PM
grin grin grin

I like the new Gardener!

Women LOVE confidence wink . Even someone who isn`t interested will feel flattered and tickled by a confident but respectful approach.

WOOO HOOO!

PS - excellent that you`re not donning black for the next year laugh
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/09/10 11:03 PM
Quote:
grin grin grin

I like the new Gardener!


Ditto! Really nice- I'm so glad to see you enjoying yourself and people are responding!
I was wondering tho- is this really a "new" Gardener, or are you just uncovering a Gardener that you had forgotten about? He may have been in there the whole time... But regardless- Keep it going!

Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/10/10 02:41 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
"Why thank you," says she, and - get this - gives me her number and invites me to call if I'd like.
Oldest trick in the book. But a first time for Gardener. The phone number doesn't exist.
A little disappointed, but that's okay. I got up the nerve to get out of my shell - and that's all I wanted to - and I did. It was a nice, honest short chat. But, hey, I don't blame her: axe-murderers are capable of nice, honest short chats crazy .
Spent Mothers' Day getting ready for next weekend's yard sale/tag/sale/garage sale (depending upon what part of the country you're from).

I hope all my dear DB Mom friends had as wonderful as possible Mothers' Day
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/10/10 03:02 AM
Ooooh, ouch on the false phone number.

But you are right--the important thing was stepping out of your zone. And as a woman, yes, it can be way too scary to hand out info. I hear Jeffrey Dahlmer was charming, too.

I'm with Flowmom on the MC thing. I hope you can keep it something that DOESN'T eat up your heart with anger and vengeance. If your engaging in the battle can protect someone else, good. If you are doing it mainly out of anger, well---ask yourself if it is worth the emotional energy.

Your new IC sounds great. Mine, too, has asked me to have more compassion for myself. Take it easy on myself. Sigh.

Keep going out, keep saying hi to people, and the rose to the office manager was PERFECT! what a lovely thing to have done.
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/10/10 03:06 AM
Hey at least you made the call! Bravo!!!!!

If you were closer, I'd give you my real phone number wink
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/10/10 03:14 AM
Quote:
Hey at least you made the call! Bravo!!!!!


Agreed- nice job. Keep it up, Gardener!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/10/10 03:19 AM
Originally Posted By: poet
I was just about to rush over to the other universe and give you my phone number.
Originally Posted By: LolaL
If you were closer, I'd give you my real phone number wink
Hey, two for two! Ego-boost!.
Gardener can travel, y'know. laugh And, LolaL: closer/shmoser: you did invite me to lunch over at the Goals For Surviving thread don't forget (I haven't grin ) And I was semi-sorta in your neck of the woods a few years back: spent a weekend checking out R.I.T. with Stepson & X. Highlight for Gardener? Seeing Lake Erie for the first time.
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/10/10 10:41 AM
Well then, Gardener, you must travel!!! We have great places for lunch!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/11/10 02:07 AM
Going to bed now. Early for a change, lately. Tired.
But first, I want to sentimentally say that the hour or so I spend with you people each night means the world to me. You are all so special.
Couldn't have made it these pst 11 months since finding this site without each and every one of you.
Peace.
Bill
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/11/10 02:04 PM
I so know that feeling. I have been here for a year and a half, and had I not had the support of all the wonderful people that I have met, I don't think I would have gotten through this!

Hope you slept well!
Posted By: kat727 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/11/10 02:13 PM
Funny how going through Hell together can bring people closer. I have made some great friends here and hope to meet them in real life soon!!

kat
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/13/10 03:48 AM
Journaling,

Just politely emailed X a simple question about a piece of furniture and the whereabouts of a key.

She answered my two questions politely (or at least neutrally) and then said that our realtor didn't know a thing about a house comment I recently relayed to her. She ended it with
Originally Posted By: X
Oh, one other thing.
I spoke to Realtor about the (issue). Funny. He didn't know what I was talking about.
Nice to know you're still lying to me when it suits you. Reaffirms my decision every time.
I replied, thanking her for her answer about furniture and key. I told her that I had asked realtor about my part of (issue) and
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Perhaps I misunderstood Realtor when he was here and I asked him (issue). I thought his reply re: me applied to you, too. I apologize for making that assumption by extension.
And, really, the snottiness and false accusation is uncalled for.
Funny, as I go through the anger stage, I find that my anger is about X's walking away, D'ing, editing, demonizing (like above), etc. IOW, I'm angry mostly about things in the past.

This comment bothered me not at all and I felt no need to respond - respond in kind, that is.

Felt good, but still I find myself wondering if I'm detached or just "taking" her e-spew and thus reverting to conflict-avoidance-at-all-costs.

Probably it's just that I don't give a sh!t anymore and will give her neither satisfaction, ammo, nor "evidence" that she's "right" about Demon Me. smile
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/13/10 04:49 AM
Gardener, I think your reply was spot on!

That's the way to do it- be the calm, cool and collected one but still put her in her place if she acts childish but in a detached way like you did.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/13/10 05:19 AM
Thanks, Romeo. That helped.
Hopefully I'm getting to the point that a post like the one I just made will be made without the still-residual
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Felt good, but still I find myself wondering if I'm detached or just "taking" her e-spew and thus reverting to conflict-avoidance-at-all-costs.
But I'm getting there.
I'm getting there.
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/13/10 11:29 AM
Hey G!

I have been thinking about the same thing in dealing with my XW. Before I felt the need to have to answer or prove her wrong, than I went thru a short(thankfully) phase of sink to her level and answer a nasty comment with one of my one thing.

Now---I just ignore it entirely. I think you would drive your XW up a wall if you just answered her 2 questions and ended the e-mail. What do you care about what she thinks anymore? Also her comment about re-assuring or re-affirming her decision every time leads me to believe that she still has not reflected entirely on the marriage.

One day she will, so continue to practice going dark both for her and your sake. Less is more with these crazy aliens I think!
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/13/10 03:25 PM
Nicely handled Gardener!
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/13/10 03:50 PM
Interesting comment...the reaffirmation...

My take? She is obviously feeling some guilt, and anger that you are doing so well, so she needs to once again place the blame squarely on your shoulders.

Bravo for not sinking down to her level, and sticking up for yourself in a classy and eloquent manner!!!
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/13/10 04:04 PM
I like Buffets idea. Or even better...

"Thanks"
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/13/10 11:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener

Nice to know you're still lying to me when it suits you. Reaffirms my decision every time. - Gardener's X


She's saying things based on what she wants them to be, instead of what they are. She's still trying to continually convince herself that what she did was right...regardless of how wrong it was. She lies to herself in order to assuage her own guilt.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/14/10 01:31 AM
ant,
Originally Posted By: antlers
Originally Posted By: Gardener

Nice to know you're still lying to me when it suits you. Reaffirms my decision every time. - Gardener's X


She's saying things based on what she wants them to be, instead of what they are. She's still trying to continually convince herself that what she did was right...regardless of how wrong it was. She lies to herself in order to assuage her own guilt.
Bingo, my friend. Spot on. Thanks.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/14/10 02:09 AM
Romeo, Buffet, Bunny, LolaL, Kerry, antlers,
Thank you all. All good ideas and much-appreciated kudos. At this stage, I more often think it's time to resist the 48-hour rule and the run-it-by-here-first strategy and just go with it.

I got a renter for upstairs Master Bedroom Suite Monday. Confirmed yesterday. Told her today. She was all sweetness and nice. Said "I'm glad you changed your mind about renting. This will make it easier for you." I answered "I changed my mind when you backed off about wanting a portion of the rent $ even though you contribute no $ to house." (I pulled the ad and said, diplomatically, "eff you. I'll stay and struggle rather than give you a dime of the rent $").
There was one agreement we had to make about the rental, though. I agreed and said a verbal agreement is fine by me. She responded she wanted it in writing, signed, and notarized.

I said, "Fine." Not even worth further comment.

Renter - from- NC took a job at a small corp 1/2 mile from here. Is selling house in NC. Wife loved our house "Virtual Tour" on Brokers' website, might be interested in discussing purchasing. Renter came tonight to sign agreement. Apparently hates the job, not sure what to do, was going back to motel to call the wife. Didn't sign. (sigh).

Meanwhile, Broker says lowering price $38k should do the trick (!?!?). This is the SAME price that an agent gave us in AUGUST(!) in order to sell fast. Back then, broker said, "Wrong. I can get you $58k more," so we went with him.

X & I lowered it $20k in Feb. Now another $38k? To the first agent's (obviously) spot-on price back in August?!? I know market is bad and fluctuating but I'm beginning to think Broker "blew smoke" to get the listing.

Yeah, I know I'm really rambling now. Not sure what to do. But I really want to get out from under this $ hemorrhaging memory-laden, last-vestige-of-M (and connection to X) and GO!

Having a yard/tag/garage sale Sat and Sunday. Gonna try to get rid of damn-near everything! Including every picture, photo, gift, knick-knack X ever gave me. The sitch memory will be bad enough. Don't need - or want - any physical, tangible reminders of it or her.

There. I'm done now (I think). Feel better.

If X agrees, I'll just take my half of the $38k hit and dump this place (which I once- and still in many ways do - love so much).
But it's been bleeding me and exhausting me for eighteen months now.
Enough, already.
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/14/10 02:13 AM
Whew. Just reading that has me out of breath!!! I hope you feel better now!!!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/14/10 02:46 AM
Lolal,
Originally Posted By: LolaL
Whew. Just reading that has me out of breath!!! I hope you feel better now!!!
Always feelbetter after letting off some always-verbose steam! crazy

Renter just called. Is taking it Monday.

I'm not going to even mention to X the back-and-forth $ emailing I've been doing with Broker.
Too much to even process right now, let alone explain. Too much else to do.

And, by the way,you never answered my question:

Lola - The Rockette
S'upwitdat?
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/14/10 03:07 AM
Missed that...I have been on this board for I guess about a year and a half, and Jeff (Virtually Handsome) used to be Dry Heat. Someone posted that Jeff was handsome, and one of the mods changed his name to Virtually Handsome and named his regular posters the Rockettes. You will note that MichelleLt is also a Rockette...lol!!!
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/14/10 03:41 AM
Congrats on the renter! I really hope it works out well for you.
And I hope the new price on the house is the boost it needs to sell.

Are they predicting good weather during your yard sale? That always helps to get people out and looking- good luck with it!

Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/14/10 12:20 PM
Sunny and 74 degrees both days grin
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/16/10 05:58 AM
Hi, all,
I usually check in with all you guys before posting on my own thread, but not tonight: I'll catch up with you tomorrow.
Had a great day!
Tag sale went well. I tagged no items, told people to make a reasonable offer. Most of them offered more than I would have tagged them for, anyway!

Got rid of about 1/3 of what I had (fortunately a LOT of X's past gifts, etc.. Hopefully more tomorrow (today).

Real glad I held on to all those comic books from when I was young and protected them. One guy gave me $220 for seven of them!!

After sale, I went out to local saloon - known for GREAT live bands every weekend -which I've been going to for dinner and fun on Saturday nights recently. Struck up a conversation with tonight's drummer (female, my age) which I didn't know at the time. Nice talk. After dinner, I decided to stay a few minutes to check out the band.

Well, I stayed two hours. GREAT Blues band. Mostly couples, though. Few, if any singles (it's known for its great dance floor in addition to great bands). Still, I struck up conversations with several couples. Had a great ol' smiling time.

A bit jealous watching smiling, obviously devoted couples dancing. And to Gardener, dancing is, if not vertical sex, it's certainly vertical foreplay!

At one point they invited - insisted - everybody get up to dance, so what the hell. I did. Danced alone. Wound up dancing some "threesomes" with willing/inviting couples.

Later, after the show, I chatted again with drummer. Gave her my phone number (for conversation, company), rather than ask her for hers, for what it's worth. She seemed receptive. We'll see, but I did it. (yet another big 180 for in-his-shell Gardener).
Had a blast. Even if nothing comes of phone number.

Don't know if I posted this before, but tonight I didn't miss dancing with X (which we did a lot), just missed dancing with somebody, anybody, in general.

This goes along with feeling lately that I don't miss sex, sleeping with, hanging with, talking with, holding hands with, etc. X anymore.

I miss sex, sleeping with, hanging with, talking with, holding hands with, etc.,...someone. Anyone.

A good sign, I think.

I need a date.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/16/10 12:06 PM
yes, I think it's a sign of another corner turned when one begins to realize that we don't necessarily miss the person, we miss the activity or the feelings or the role or the interaction.

sounds as if you're doing very well, and growing all the time. gotta love a woman drummer!
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/16/10 01:08 PM
Gardener, I'm with you. I don't miss the times with STBXW -- all the really good ones were so long ago that it's hard to remember -- I miss the times of going out with someone and having a really good time.

When you find someone it's going to be soooo much better than it was before.

I know that. Patience is hard though.

Keep on going.
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/16/10 03:11 PM
I'm glad you had a great time Gardener. I'm impressed-keep that up!
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/16/10 11:18 PM
Good on ya, Gardener!

Couples things do just suck, but we have to suck it up and get out there. Maybe a couple will bring along their single friend; maybe there will be a drummer; maybe who you thought was a couple are just dancing buddies.

I'm so happy that you got out there and had a good time.

Are you ready to start thinking about thinking about dating? Remember chatterbug's attitude: a nice time, with a nice person. Not a big deal. Warming up those old dating skills.

And great on the renter. It will be nice to have the $ and the company.

Always thinking of you---
Posted By: g450 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/16/10 11:47 PM
"I miss sex, sleeping with, hanging with, talking with, holding hands with, etc.,...someone. Anyone."

I can say that also but Im not as far along as you unfortunately.
Still feel a bit of guilt when I am out with my friend or a date.

And I still miss my XW. For the life of me I dont know why because I really cant remember the last time she was even civil with me much less nice or affectionate towards me. I keep drawing blanks on that. But when you love someone as much as I did, you even miss arguing with them. Strange but true.

I only wish I were as detached as you are right now. Trying to get there.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/16/10 11:52 PM
Quote:
This goes along with feeling lately that I don't miss sex, sleeping with, hanging with, talking with, holding hands with, etc. X anymore.

I miss sex, sleeping with, hanging with, talking with, holding hands with, etc.,...someone. Anyone.


Amen, brother. I'm right there with you. And, yes, it IS a good sign.
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/17/10 02:23 AM
Gardener, just the kind of update I like to read from you laugh . Loving the "getting-out-of-your-shell" 180s...well on your way to Gnosis' 4Cs. Tut, tut, I don't get to tease you about being an Italian widow any more wink .

Couples things suck Gardener. It is there a singles scene for mature folks like us? We should find out. And why don't you take social dancing classes? Am I remembering that you've done that before? Usually you don't have to bring a partner.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/17/10 06:10 AM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
yes, I think it's a sign of another corner turned when one begins to realize that we don't necessarily miss the person, we miss the activity or the feelings or the role or the interaction.
Yeah, I diddn't think of it as a corner turned or a milestone or anything. I just felt it. A whole different feeling.
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
gotta love a woman drummer!
That's what i thought! And a Blues drummer, to boot!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/17/10 06:27 AM
CTH,
Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope
Gardener, I'm with you. I don't miss the times with STBXW -- all the really good ones were so long ago that it's hard to remember -- I miss the times of going out with someone and having a really good time.

When you find someone it's going to be soooo much better than it was before.

I know that. Patience is hard though.

Keep on going.
You're right. Thanks. Just happy getting out and (having the courage to be) making some connections, some interaction (180) for me.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/17/10 06:29 AM
Aver,Thanks all around. Yeah, I'm ready, now.Thanks for thinking of me.
Hey, I hear renter pulling up outside. Just got back from NC, so that's good.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/17/10 06:31 AM
Bunny,
Thanks.
You keep it up, too (L to L. going dark, etc.
Originally Posted By: SpyBunny
I'm glad you had a great time Gardener. I'm impressed-keep that up!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/17/10 06:33 AM
fm,
Originally Posted By: flowmom
Gardener, just the kind of update I like to read from you laugh . Loving the "getting-out-of-your-shell" 180s...well on your way to Gnosis' 4Cs. Tut, tut, I don't get to tease you about being an Italian widow any more wink .
Yeah. Off with the black armband. grin

Originally Posted By: flowmom
Couples things suck Gardener. It is there a singles scene for mature folks like us? We should find out. And why don't you take social dancing classes? Am I remembering that you've done that before? Usually you don't have to bring a partner.
I've signed up for Swing classes. X & I took a lot of them.I'm good at Swing.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/17/10 06:38 AM
g450,
Originally Posted By: g450
I only wish I were as detached as you are right now. Trying to get there.
Don't try. It doesn't work. Wait. It just happens.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/17/10 12:04 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
yes, I think it's a sign of another corner turned when one begins to realize that we don't necessarily miss the person, we miss the activity or the feelings or the role or the interaction.
Yeah, I diddn't think of it as a corner turned or a milestone or anything. I just felt it. A whole different feeling.
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
gotta love a woman drummer!
That's what i thought! And a Blues drummer, to boot!


I think it is a sort of milestone--a sort of new level of healing when you realize that, when you can separate the person from the rest of it. detachment, differentiation, whatever you'd like to term it--and at a level that allows you to perhaps see yourself loving again, enjoying life again, being part of a couple again, in a way that allows you bring along what you've learned to make it a deeper, richer experience (as opposed to being angry, bitter, and desperate for the rest of one's life!) I'm glad you "felt" it--far more important than "thinking" it!

excellent that you continue to step outside your "comfort zone." it's part of developing a new identity, one that's fully you where you are now with all the wisdom and growth that involves.

I'm sure that inner "little gardener guy" is impressed as h*ll with how well you're taking care of him!!--and bringing him out to play, too! how cool is that?!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/18/10 02:05 AM
thanks, hm, as always.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/18/10 02:39 AM
Journaling,

Renter's moved in. Nice, unassuming guy so far.
X came to sign the Month-to-Month Lease this evening but "had to go" before we could get it done.(??)

Brought her ever-present "teacup" dog with her, as always. How unattractive - and matronly - that looks (apologies to any of you with ever-present "teacup" dogs; but you're not my X grin )

She said she agreed with me on not lowering house price, so that's good. Did, mention, however thinking about taking it off the market for a while if it doesn't sell by February. February? Why February? Just arbitrary, says she.

Immediately made me suspicious. She was - and still is - so p!ssed that last June I told her she could move back into house in December and I'd leave (weak, emotional moment) and then I had the temerity to change my mind!

Suspicious because of our divorce decree of 2/09. Since we went through mediation and my personal L (mostly) just ok'd document with changes,(iow, I wasn't paying him exorbitant $ for lots of advice), I've been suspicious as to how/why a clause got in there that if it doesn't sell by 5/1/11 (I know, a whole year away), she gets to reoccupy and I leave. I figured at the time, who cares? It's got to sell by then (15 months).

Still, always wondered why she got that put in there...

She was very pleasant. I didn't care. I was perfunctorily polite and agreeable.
Glad when she left.

IC meeting tonight, beforehand. IC - who slightly knows of X (long story) - remains convinced that her abusive father's sudden death in 4/08 set off all sorts of unresolved conflicts culminating in unexplained Bomb in 11/08.

She thinks X is a mess (not her clinical term for it smile ), confused, f'd up, conflicted, demonizing the hell out of me out of necessity and probably very remorseful. I agree with most of that but see no evidence of the remorse. Nor do I care to. Nor would it change me now.

IC also thinks X was having an affair at time of bomb (long story/rationale as to why she believes this so strongly, so I'm not going to get into it) and also "strongly suspects" MC fostered some kind of "inappropriate relationship" with her.

Too late, anyway. I'd never want to reconcile now. I was a damned good H, partner, lover, friend, companion. Devoted and selfless. She tossed me and jerked me around for months.

Fool me once...

Official complaint(s) against MC for multiple ethics & standards violations is submitted and gone. My first IC, current IC and the two National Organization officials I dealt with are unanimously appalled at his behavior, actions, incompetence.

So, that ball is rolling. We'll see. Just glad I documented it and made it known.

I'm doing okay. Trying to stress less over absolutely enormous $ mess and day-by-day/month-by-month impossibility.

Renter will help that nut, though and give me a little breathing room, so that's good.

Thanks for being there, all.
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/18/10 03:50 AM
Phew, Gardener, can't even reply to all that.

I trust your gut on her "arbitrary" Feb date. But Feb is Feb, and May is May. Time will do what it does.

The renter will help so much with mental stress. Hopefully you enjoy the presence of another person around. My roomie helps a lot with that. Of course, she is also the perfect roomie, so not everyone will have that.

Most most excellent on the swing dancing. Totally great. Speaking as a middle-aged divorced woman (hey, is that me? why, shoot, I guess it is) I would be delighted to have such a man as you show up at class. A man who can handle emotions. Who can look at feelings, life, changes, love, and know what can be good, and how to handle the bad. Who is brave enough to swing dance!

Keep going.
Posted By: Reincarnated Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/18/10 03:52 AM
I am seriously considering renting out my finished basement. I would have to install a small bath (gutted when I refi'd), and would have to share the entrance, along with the kitchen at least once in a while (there is already an apt size fridge down there, full bar, micorwave).
Not sure where that thought will end up, though.
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/18/10 08:12 PM
If you show up at a dance class before our lunch date you are in big trouble Buster! Kidding kiddin LOL!!!

So if I read that right, she gets the house if it doesn't sell by Feb 2011? That's almost an entire year away.

Does that mean she will also take over any and all mortgage payments?
Posted By: Reincarnated Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/18/10 10:36 PM
Gardener - what is that book that you have been recommending all over the place?
Posted By: Reincarnated Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/18/10 10:52 PM
found it....nevermind wink
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/19/10 01:23 AM
aver,
Originally Posted By: avermont
Phew, Gardener, can't even reply to all that.

I trust your gut on her "arbitrary" Feb date. But Feb is Feb, and May is May. Time will do what it does.Yep. Other than that mention, I rarely give it a thought

The renter will help so much with mental stress.Oh, most definitely.Hopefully you enjoy the presence of another person around.I really do, so far. My roomie helps a lot with that. Of course, she is also the perfect roomie, so not everyone will have that.

Most most excellent on the swing dancing. Totally great. Thanks.
Speaking as a middle-aged divorced woman (hey, is that me? why, shoot, I guess it is) I would be delighted to have such a man as you show up at class. A man who can handle emotions. Who can look at feelings, life, changes, love, and know what can be good, and how to handle the bad. Who is brave enough to swing dance!
Speaking as a middle-aged divorced man (yep, that's me, too!), I am at a loss as to what to say about your very kind complements. No. No, I'm not: Aver, that was so good to hear - made me feel real good. About me.
Thank you, sincerely, for that.

Keep going. I am. I will. You, too. We'll be fine - all of us.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/19/10 01:39 AM
Donna,
Originally Posted By: Donna...Found
I am seriously considering renting out my finished basement. I would have to install a small bath (gutted when I refi'd), and would have to share the entrance, along with the kitchen at least once in a while (there is already an apt size fridge down there, full bar, micorwave).
Not sure where that thought will end up, though.
Look into it. From what little I now understand of the law, since it's not an apartment, uses same entrance(s) as you, and has common, shared areas (kitchen, etc.) You are basically letting someone under your roof, into your home, so most landlord/tenant laws and rules don't apply.

iow, you don't have to accept the first applicant who says, "I'll take it" and hands you a check. You get to choose who you take. It's your home.
Look it up online or check w/L.
Town & zoning laws? That's another matter. Me, I just have "my cousin from NC staying with me until he gets his own place up here..." whistle
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/19/10 01:45 AM
Donnna,
Originally Posted By: Donna...Found
Gardener - what is that book that you have been recommending all over the place?
Originally Posted By: Donna...Found
found it....nevermind
I'm glad.
Though I really wish I could remember who recommended it to me in the first place!
Hoosiermama, I think.
Whoever, I owe them mucho thanks. It was - and still is - the book I needed just when I needed it!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/19/10 02:13 AM
LolaL,
Originally Posted By: LolaL
If you show up at a dance class before our lunch date you are in big trouble Buster! Kidding kiddin LOL!!!
When things ea$e up a bit, don't think Gardener won't up and drive some six hours or so for that invitation and conversation! Wilton to Hilton - gotta be Kismet! grin
Originally Posted By: LolaL
So if I read that right, she gets the house if it doesn't sell by Feb 2011? That's almost an entire year away.Does that mean she will also take over any and all mortgage payments?
If not sold by 5/1/11 she gets to re-occupy - and I'm out - until it sells. She takes over everything
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/19/10 02:17 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Donnna,
Originally Posted By: Donna...Found
Gardener - what is that book that you have been recommending all over the place?
Originally Posted By: Donna...Found
found it....nevermind
I'm glad.
Though I really wish I could remember who recommended it to me in the first place!
Hoosiermama, I think.
Whoever, I owe them mucho thanks. It was - and still is - the book I needed just when I needed it!

ok, I'll humbly take credit for the book recommendation! wish I remember where I first heard about it...but yes, it was exactly what I needed when I needed it, and catapulted me ahead, out of my stuck state. it was, quite literally, a godsend.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/19/10 02:57 AM
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Donnna,
Originally Posted By: Donna...Found
Gardener - what is that book that you have been recommending all over the place?
Originally Posted By: Donna...Found
found it....nevermind
I'm glad.
Though I really wish I could remember who recommended it to me in the first place!
Hoosiermama, I think.
Whoever, I owe them mucho thanks. It was - and still is - the book I needed just when I needed it!

ok, I'll humbly take credit for the book recommendation! wish I remember where I first heard about it...but yes, it was exactly what I needed when I needed it, and catapulted me ahead, out of my stuck state. it was, quite literally, a godsend.
HA! I was right. I kept thinking it was you, but couldn't recall, for sure.
Thank you thank you thank you.
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/19/10 01:46 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
LolaL,
Originally Posted By: LolaL
If you show up at a dance class before our lunch date you are in big trouble Buster! Kidding kiddin LOL!!!
When things ea$e up a bit, don't think Gardener won't up and drive some six hours or so for that invitation and conversation! Wilton to Hilton - gotta be Kismet! grin
Originally Posted By: LolaL
So if I read that right, she gets the house if it doesn't sell by Feb 2011? That's almost an entire year away.Does that mean she will also take over any and all mortgage payments?
If not sold by 5/1/11 she gets to re-occupy - and I'm out - until it sells. She takes over everything

Good, good, and good!!!
Posted By: goodattitudegirl Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/19/10 02:18 PM
Hi Gardener,

Long time, no see. It looks as though you are doing well. I stumbled upon this information yesterday and thought it might be of interest to you. I remembered reading, in the past, that you are filing a complaint against your MC and thought this info might be helpful:

--"How Therapists Harm Marriages and What We Can Do About It" (www.marriagefriendlytherapists.com/therapistsharmmarriages.php)

--"National Registry of Marriage Friendly Therapists" (www.marriagefriendlytherapists.com/) --- wish I'd found this 2 years ago when XH left it to me to find a marriage therapist.

There is a bill in my state legislature to slow down the D process headed by Dr. William Doherty, the author of the above articles (www.mnfamilylawblog.com/articles/contested-divorce/). In Minnesota currently you can get divorced in 1 week. Ridiculous. Of course the Family Law lobby is not supporting it. (How do you make a "cross-eyed" emoticon? I'd like one to go here!)

Take care!

GAG
Posted By: Buffet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/20/10 12:49 AM
Hey G---good to see some positive stuff going on---?-did you ever bury that statue in the yard that is supposed to help sell homes? I cannot remember the name of the saint (bad christian!) but I have heard people swear by its "powers"?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/20/10 03:02 AM
Thanks, GAG.
I saw the Marriage-Friendly therapists site months ago.
And, alas, months too late.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/20/10 03:05 AM
Buffet,
Originally Posted By: Buffet
Hey G---good to see some positive stuff going on---?-did you ever bury that statue in the yard that is supposed to help sell homes? I cannot remember the name of the saint (bad christian!) but I have heard people swear by its "powers"?
Thanks. And, y'know, I didn't but it did pop back into my head earlier this morning. Was going to look up a Religious Articles store but got sidetracked.
St. Joseph, by the way.
I will try it though. I'll try anything at this point....
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/20/10 03:09 AM
Quick Journal (a thought, actually),

After a couple of months of ever-increasing, "I don't miss her," thoughts, tonight. while driving, an "I'm glad she's not here!" sudddenly made itself heard in my thoughts.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/20/10 03:12 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Quick Journal (a thought, actually),

After a couple of months of ever-increasing, "I don't miss her," thoughts, tonight. while driving, an "I'm glad she's not here!" sudddenly made itself heard in my thoughts.

such a relief when that happens, isn't it?! smile
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/20/10 05:05 AM
And eventually, when you are making out with a new nice lady in the parking lot of the grocery store near your home, you wont even be thinking of your X!
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/20/10 01:29 PM
Originally Posted By: KerryK
And eventually, when you are making out with a new nice lady in the parking lot of the grocery store near your home, you wont even be thinking of your X!

oh, there's gotta be a story here....
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/20/10 02:32 PM
Hi Gardener. Sounds like you're doin' OK. I hope it continues. It's been a rough go.
Posted By: kat727 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/20/10 02:38 PM
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
Originally Posted By: KerryK
And eventually, when you are making out with a new nice lady in the parking lot of the grocery store near your home, you wont even be thinking of your X!

oh, there's gotta be a story here....


I think there is always a story with Kerry! Just makes life more interesting you know? smile

kat
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/20/10 04:21 PM
I posted that last night shortly after coming home from date night. My head was in the clouds a bit. My date did mention that other customers may yell out "get a room!".
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/20/10 06:57 PM
Yes. Thursday I was at a singles thing with a group from church and had an attractive 35-year-old college guidance counselor on my left and a 31-year-old attractive banking employee on my right.

I went back and forth in the conversation, trying to give both equal treatment, and I didn't think about STBXW at all.

Moving forward is always better than looking backward. It just varies in how long it takes to get the ship going.
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/20/10 08:08 PM
Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope
Thursday I was at a singles thing with a group from church and had an attractive 35-year-old college guidance counselor on my left and a 31-year-old attractive banking employee on my right.

I have an image in my mind of you playing the role of Mills Lane as referee in a cat fight over you.

Let's Get It On!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/21/10 03:34 AM
Kerry,
Originally Posted By: KerryK
And eventually, when you are making out with a new nice lady in the parking lot of the grocery store near your home, you wont even be thinking of your X!
Very well - and enticingly - put! grin
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/21/10 03:36 AM
Originally Posted By: antlers
Hi Gardener. Sounds like you're doin' OK. I hope it continues. It's been a rough go.
Thanks, ant. I am.
"rough go"...great understatement!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/21/10 03:40 AM
Originally Posted By: KerryK
IMy date did mention that other customers may yell out "get a room!".
Yes!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/21/10 04:04 AM
This evening I was finishing up some gardening out front when X (and surgically attached dog) stopped by to sign renter's agreement which she couldn't wait around for Tuesday.

I reminded her that I'd said I'd confirm tonight with her - which I didn't - renter's not home tonight. He and I will sign and I'll mail it to her, I decided. "Okay."

She asked if she could go out back and cut flowers. "Go right ahead."
I finished up, went in house through the front, took a shower, didn't see her again. Was going to use the word "ignore" in this post, but "ignore" denotes intent, a decision. For me, now, whenever I see her it's simply a sense of, "Yeah...so?"

Later, while driving, I thought that one week ago today was the one year "anniversary" of when she asked for D. The fact that that date and event didn't register for over a week, must say something about where I'm at now.

Off tomorrow morning for a "guys" weekend that I organized with eight of my ol' high school crowd. A couple I still see often. The other six? It's been between 5 and 25 years!

See ya Sunday.
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/21/10 05:09 AM
I wonder...will you ol' high school guys be singing the Beach Boys "Be True To Your School" this weekend?

Have Fun!
Posted By: flowmom Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/21/10 05:16 AM
Have a great time this weekend Gardener! I hope that spending time with old friends reminds you of all the great things about you! Glad to read that detachment is growing smile
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/21/10 02:02 PM
Have a good time Gardener!
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/21/10 04:22 PM
an inner child reflection for you, g, from one of my favorite spiritual writers....
http://ncronline.org/blogs/spiritual-reflections/reawakening-inner-child
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/21/10 05:38 PM
Wow, sounds like the detachment thing is going on for you.

Took a week for the date to register. Thinking "I'm glad she's not here". Seeing the difference between "aversion"=ignore and "neutral"=so what?

What a great place to get to. If, unfortunately, you have to get to it.

I'm betting that when you are making out WHEREever you won't think about X.

(I didn't with Town Meeting Escort! blush)

Have a GREAT weekend!
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/22/10 02:49 AM
Have a good weekend with your friends and thanks for your support!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/24/10 03:16 PM
Thank you, aver
Originally Posted By: avermont
Wow, sounds like the detachment thing is going on for you.
Took a week for the date to register. Thinking "I'm glad she's not here". Seeing the difference between "aversion"=ignore and "neutral"=so what?
What a great place to get to. If, unfortunately, you have to get to it.
I'm betting that when you are making out WHEREever you won't think about X.
(I didn't with Town Meeting Escort! blush)
Have a GREAT weekend!
Oh, wouldn't/won't that be nice some day!
It was a great weekend, Will post later.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/24/10 03:18 PM
Thanks, hm. Looks good. Just printed it and will read it later.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/24/10 03:50 PM
Hey Gardener, just catching up with people, hope all is well, sounds like it over your last few posts!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/24/10 05:34 PM
iwitw,
I am well, thanks. Was over at your thread earlier. Revisited it again just now.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/24/10 07:04 PM
Journaling,

Well, the weekend was great! Far more than I could have hoped for and at a time I needed it most.
Ten close friends who bonded - strongly - back in high school and have stayed in touch and held our own (non-Alumni Association) reunions many times through the years.

This was a truly blessed weekend of reminiscing, catching up, celebrating accomplishments and comforting those few who are in bad places right now and deeply appreciating who we still are and decent lives well-lived.

A day trip to Storm King Art Center in Mountainville, NY was a highlight: It's just south of Newburgh, NY and I can't recommend it enough to anyone who is within striking distance of - or ever finds themselves in - that area: 500 acres of rolling hills, natural meadows and woodlands that are home to beautiful, serene, and massive-scale monumental sculptures by mostly post WWII artists. Awe inspiring beauty and perspective.
www.stormkingartcenter.org

Came home to relax before evening party thrown by first X for S31's Bachelor's degree, for which he decided to go back and finish up about 9 months ago, doing so in accelerated time with the help of his life/acting credits for having acted on stage, TV and Movies as a member of Actors Equity, SAG and AFTRA.

I gave him his "present": a five minute talk to the others - him by my side - starting off with "I love this man standing here," and describing my respect and admiration for him as a man, a son, a father, and as someone who followed his passion from an early age with optimism and unflagging determination. It went well though I had a hard time "keeping it together" (of course) throughout. I thanked and acknowledged his mother, his stepfather (and me!) for having successfully raised a good man. And then I left as it was really primarily a party by and for X1 & her family (who it was great to see again) that he had insisted I be there for.

Came home to empty house and crashed from the weekend. Today, no work as my occasionally bad back is damn near paralyzed and immobile (driving? hotel mattress? Who knows?).

Also today, two emails: One from another customer canceling her account due to, "economy, cutting back." ("Aaaarrgghh!!!). One from X who had refused a verbal agreement on my renting out master bedroom suite, then wanted it in writing, and then wanted it in writing and notarized and NOW is going back to court for a formal Modification (more totally unnecessary L & Court $$). mad

The same X who last week emailed if If there was any way I'd let her lower a temporary monthly $ obligation she has to me per divorce as it's just harder than she expected. I told her I'd consider it. Once this newest courtroom BS on her part is over, that answer will be, simply, "no." cool

Kind of sad today. Probably more just an anticlimactic letdown after a fun, fulfilling, people-filled weekend.

Waiting for house sale more and more begins to feel like waiting for parole. Buried a St. Joseph statue out front last week (what the heck), two scheduled showings yesterday: neither showed up.

IC meeting in less than two hours. Couldn't be more well-timed!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/24/10 07:27 PM
Okayyyyy.....
add to the above a phone call from another customer not five minutes ago canceling in order to "cut back" as well. Reduced rates, reduced visits, limiting scope of work, no suggestion worked to save the account.

There's a line in a song from the musical Godspell that says
"You'd bet that Job had nothing on you."
Sometimes, yep.

$inking, $inking.
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/24/10 09:06 PM
I'm glad your weekend went well Gardener. I really hope the house sells quickly now that you've got your statue buried!

Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/24/10 09:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Okayyyyy.....
add to the above a phone call from another customer not five minutes ago canceling in order to "cut back" as well. Reduced rates, reduced visits, limiting scope of work, no suggestion worked to save the account.

There's a line in a song from the musical Godspell that says
"You'd bet that Job had nothing on you."
Sometimes, yep.

$inking, $inking.

aaarrrggghhhh!! don't you just hate being compared to Job?! you know that things are almost absurd when that happens. try to lean back on the weekend if you can; it's just a bad day.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/25/10 12:31 AM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
Originally Posted By: Gardener
"You'd bet that Job had nothing on you."
aaarrrggghhhh!! don't you just hate being compared to Job?! you know that things are almost absurd when that happens.
Yes, and I hate it even more when I'm doing it! crazy
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/25/10 01:06 AM
Well, at least you're not covered with boils. Or you haven't admitted it.

The down is going to feel so much worse since the weekend was so great.

Maybe you could suggest to X that it might be possible for her to pay you LESS, if she wasn't costing you MORE in unneccessary L and C fees, and stopping your income from renter!! grrrr..

And I have never heard of this sculpture garden, despite growing up on Long Island, driving by around and through that whole area for years. I am going to look into it for a road trip, or a bike trip!

Take it easy. St. Joseph is with you. And don't scratch the boils--they'll get infected.
Posted By: Reincarnated Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/25/10 02:17 AM
I went once, but it was closed, and had to settle for what I could see through the gate....I was just talking about it Fri with friends (we went to the Buddhist temple, instead). Sounds like a great place to pack a picnic and meet up...?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/25/10 01:00 PM
Donna,
Originally Posted By: Donna...Found
I went once, but it was closed, and had to settle for what I could see through the gate....I was just talking about it Fri with friends (we went to the Buddhist temple, instead). Sounds like a great place to pack a picnic and meet up...?
It definitely would be. I'd check with them first re:bringing in food, etc., though. And plan on several hours at least. And if your talking about a general meet up and have room for one more, I'd certainly be interested. I can't wait to go back.
Tell me more about the Buddhist Temple. Where is it?
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/25/10 03:56 PM
Yeah, Buddhist temples,picnics and general meetups sounds like a good idea to me!
Posted By: Reincarnated Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/25/10 08:06 PM
It's in Carmel (exit 17 off Rt 84). I have to find out more about any programs, etc., they might have - we just walked around a little while (it was closing soon) and shot some photography.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/26/10 12:54 AM
Thanks, Donna.
Just googled it and there are three in that area.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/26/10 12:57 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
...add to the above a phone call from another customer not five minutes ago canceling in order to "cut back" as well.
One door closes, another opens. Talked to a manager in a local premier landscaping company two weeks ago. He called this morning.
I'll be working for them two days a week starting Thursday (three, probably, once I get the okay from a couple of customers to switch them to Saturdays).
Whew.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/26/10 11:06 AM
Quote:
One door closes, another opens.


That my friend is the best way to look at changes in your life.

For everything that happens in it. smile
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/26/10 02:41 PM
Yay!
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/26/10 10:09 PM
glad to hear it, gardener!!
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/26/10 10:47 PM
Yay from me too!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/27/10 01:03 AM
Thank you all for that.
How nice.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/28/10 06:01 PM
how's it going, gardener?!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/29/10 01:19 AM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
how's it going, gardener?!
Good, thanks. Just caught up with you and posted a reply from a day or two back. Working more, working hard, paying off bills. No real GAL, lately except High School Buddies Reunion last weekend. Tonic for the soul!

Former spouse seems to want to fight my boarder/renter, still wants "a piece of the action" (can anyone say "chutzpah"?), and is wanting to go to court over it and other "modifications"

Oh, well. Except for the expense, I don't care. At all. Period.

Working tomorrow. No weekend plans. Kinda tired and lonely tonight, but just factually so, not wallowing in it. It is what it is right now.
For now.

Thanks for asking.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/29/10 03:35 AM
you sound good...except for working the weekend!

I can resonate with the "tired and lonely" thing. it's good to be able to identify it without wallowing and getting lost in it, eh?

thanks for sharing your wisdom, btw.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/29/10 10:23 PM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
you sound good...except for working the weekend!
I can resonate with the "tired and lonely" thing. it's good to be able to identify it without wallowing and getting lost in it, eh?
God, yes
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
thanks for sharing your wisdom, btw.
You're welcome.I like you and your insights, too. But, wisdom, shmisdom: some realities and perceptions are just - sometimes painfully - picked up by osmosis in the course of 56 years. cool
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/29/10 10:33 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
you sound good...except for working the weekend!
I can resonate with the "tired and lonely" thing. it's good to be able to identify it without wallowing and getting lost in it, eh?
God, yes
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
thanks for sharing your wisdom, btw.
You're welcome.I like you and your insights, too. But, wisdom, shmisdom: some realities and perceptions are just - sometimes painfully - picked up by osmosis in the course of 56 years. cool

osmosis is just another word for valuable life experience, g-man. and thank you so much for sharing yours so freely. it HAS made a difference.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/29/10 10:43 PM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
osmosis is just another word for valuable life experience, g-man. and thank you so much for sharing yours so freely. it HAS made a difference.
I'm honored. You're a good person. And a good mama.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/29/10 11:19 PM
thanks. I'm honored that you're honored!! lol!!!!
Posted By: poet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/30/10 01:33 PM
G'moring Gman,

I started reading at the TOP of this page, and .... well, if I didn't know better, I'd have thunk it was a dating Website. Whew! All these DB women after you. Who'da thank/thunk you'd be on the market already.

OK, that was a joke, folks.

Just thought I wave hello to you this fine morning. After all, I'm on your watch list. smile Can't say too much about a serious poster.

poet
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/30/10 01:48 PM
Hi, poet.
Thanks. I should be so lucky IRL.
Someday.

Have a great weekend.
Posted By: poet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/30/10 02:05 PM
Ha ha,

Oh, I'm sure you're going to be a real ladies' man. You wait and see!

poet
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/30/10 02:18 PM
I agree with poet. smile
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/31/10 01:46 AM
Originally Posted By: poet
Oh, I'm sure you're going to be a real ladies' man. You wait and see!
Originally Posted By: SpyBunny
I agree with poet. smile
Aw shucks, ladies blush (but I am an incurable romantic grin )
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/31/10 02:28 AM
And it's amazing the little things that pop into one's mind suddenly: after writing the "incurable romantic" line I remembered very often bringing home flowers to her - spur of the moment - and having them pretty much dismissed because the were just "gas station flowers," which is often where I often happened to be when the spur-of-the-moment thought originated.
Sheesh.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/31/10 03:13 AM
how sad. no gesture of love is ever wasted, and should not be dismissed.
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 05/31/10 11:24 PM
The drive from Connecticut to OH/Indiana is only 13hrs- I'm just sayin... laugh
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/01/10 01:18 AM
Romeo,
Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo
The drive from Connecticut to OH/Indiana is only 13hrs- I'm just sayin... laugh
Let me tell you: after the house sells and I spend a few months getting my affairs in order, I am moving cross country. And I plan on doing some inefficient zig-zagging to do so. There are a number of DBers I want to meet, hug, and thank - for so much.
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/01/10 01:21 AM
Quote:
Let me tell you: after the house sells and I spend a few months getting my affairs in order, I am moving cross country


I did that once. Moved from San Jose to Poughkeepsie, NY area.

Turned out I was still me when I got there.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/01/10 01:27 AM
TH,
Originally Posted By: TimeHeals
I did that once. Moved from San Jose to Poughkeepsie, NY area. Turned out I was still me when I got there.
Not far from here. You still there?

And let me try a wild guess, here: San Jose to Poughkeepsie - IBM?
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/01/10 01:31 AM
Quote:
Not far from here. You still there?


Naw, I moved South (Memphis area).

Quote:
And let me try a wild guess, here: San Jose to Poughkeepsie - IBM?


I would have to consult the Busines Conduct Guideliness to determine if I can disclose that information. smile
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/01/10 01:32 AM
I wish I could do that. If it wasn't for D7 and D11 I would have quit my job and moved to Florida. I have friends there and lots of options -- but I can't leave the girls.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/01/10 01:39 AM
TH,
Originally Posted By: TimeHeals
Quote:
And let me try a wild guess, here: San Jose to Poughkeepsie - IBM?
I would have to consult the Busines Conduct Guideliness to determine if I can disclose that information.
(Ironic) Belly-Laugh Of The Day Award laugh laugh laugh to you for that one.

I spent 21 years with them.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/01/10 01:40 AM
CTH,
Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope
I wish I could do that. If it wasn't for D7 and D11 I would have quit my job and moved to Florida. I have friends there and lots of options -- but I can't leave the girls.
Oh, of course not. You'll be able to quicker than you'll expect, though. Savor every moment with them.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/01/10 02:06 AM
Tech Question:
How do I put in the
First Thread
Second Thread

like many of you have in your profil/sign-off?
I tried, but with the length of even the First one (HTTP//www.loads-of-characters, etc.), I exceeded my 200 character Max.
Can anyone guide me on this?
Thanks.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/01/10 02:09 AM
Go to tinyurl.com I believe. That'll create really short URLs.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/01/10 03:18 AM
CTH,
Done.
Thanks!
Posted By: avermont Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/01/10 03:00 PM
Catching up, Gardener.

I'll just subtly point out that VT ain't far at all from CT.

And that outdoor sculpture garden thing could be sort of on the way.

I'm beginning to see that there are some possibilities that weren't an option in committed R. Not that that was a bad thing, and not that I'm jumping for joy to have the freedom now...just saying.

so you can osmose on that, if that helps...
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/01/10 04:07 PM
So I suspect if you are moving cross country, you will be passing through for our lunch date eh?

And I love flowers wink LOL...gas station or not, the gesture was a beautiful one. I am sorry your ex didn't appreciate it...
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/02/10 01:57 AM
aver.
Originally Posted By: avermont
Catching up, Gardener.

I'll just subtly point out that VT ain't far at all from CT.

And that outdoor sculpture garden thing could be sort of on the way.

I'm beginning to see that there are some possibilities that weren't an option in committed R. Not that that was a bad thing, and not that I'm jumping for joy to have the freedom now...just saying.

so you can osmose on that, if that helps...
Osmosing, osmosing.
See you on the .alt
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/02/10 02:03 AM
LolaL,
Originally Posted By: LolaL
So I suspect if you are moving cross country, you will be passing through for our lunch date eh?
Passing through? Lake Erie area? I think not.

But Gardener'll sure as hell go way out of his way on a side trip ("Road Trip!!") to to meetcha and take you up on lunch.

The zig zag I referenced is because I'd love to meet you, hoosiermama (IN), givingitmyall (GA), Sweet Serenity13 (FL) and others. Many others.

What fun!
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/02/10 02:06 AM
Sounds like a plan to me!!!!! Just let me know when...
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/02/10 02:15 AM
oh, I'm in too!
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/02/10 02:42 AM
Come on south. Its just getting hot and humid down here.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/02/10 03:43 AM
Journaling (hold on tight: it's gonna be a long ride),

One year ago today, I stumbled across this site while desparately searching the web for anything truly pro-marriage, pro-repair, pro-reconciliation and anti-divorce.

Thank God I stumbled into here.

It was seven months post-Bomb. Six Months post Walkaway, 25 days post D-Bomb.
I was exhausted, disheartened, absolutely crestfallen, miserable and hopeless,

I read posts for six days before "Jumping In: First Post" on 6/06/09 and the minutes felt like hours as I waited for a reply after all that typing - soul-spilling - and...nothing. While I stayed on Newcomers (which I don't much, anymore) I always tried to respond to a First Poster as soon as I saw him or her, always remembering what that was like.

Then Coach, and StillLovesHim (anyone heard from her lately? She dropped off) and others arrived. And offered solace, wisdom, kinship and hope. This was my first-ever "chat room" and I was surprised and deeply touched.

DR, telecoaching, LRT, and you guys all gave me hope. When. I. Had. None.

With your help and guidance and just plain listening to my ranting journaling, I gave it my best effort, as God is my judge. X used to always say, "When you really put your mind to something, you always do it."

Not this time.

As I've said many times in the beginning, "I would've moved Heaven and Earth..." And, ultimately, as my IC said, "You did move Heaven and Earth. It just didn't work. It was never going to."

Did I contribute to it? You betcha. Expected her to mind read, know my needs. Got a little passive aggressive over time, avoided conflict at all costs and put her on a pedestal in my heart that I truly thought she deserved.

Opened every car door, held hands, bought flowers, made romantic dinners and nights, always introduced her as "my bride" and helped raise -and loved deeply - deeply as my own - her two children.

After the pain of X's & my first divorce, over time, all our children said at one time or another, in one fashion or another, "you restored our faith in it. You two give us something to emulate." And they all loved each other. What a wonderfully, slowly, painfully, blended family we ultimately created.

But that perfect year, that perfect summer, that perfect week before I went on retreat was followed by returning from retreat to a dead-eyed, disdainful-faced, cold alien replica. Just. Like. That.

And the loving, blended family? Now completely shattered, ruptured.

For months after, I kept a note on my bedroom mirror that said, "Your best friend is extremely confused and in a tremendous amount of pain. Remember that."

And for six months before DB I pleaded, acquiesced, walked on eggshells - anything to keep her from fading further away.

I DB'ed well but to no avail.

Author Terry Real says that "intimacy is the constant cycle from harmony to disharmony - even rupture - and repair."
But, again: not this time.

I lost her. I lost my Janet. She lost her.

To date the count is well over ten: one former counselor she saw, a former counselor we both saw, that sh!tty MC we went to, my DB telecoach, our two family physicians (one naturopathic, one "regular"), my first IC, my current IC (who knows of her family and background, coincidentally - long story), Two Family Of Origin specialists/authors I contacted, her closest sister, and several others all - all -agree on one thing. That the sudden death of her horribly abusive father (who, along with her mother, she cut off all contact with some thirty years ago) five months pre-bomb F'd her up. Opened old wounds. Transferred them to the most important man in her life now (then): me.

That's an awful lot of people (many with intimate knowledge of her past and FOO) who have come to the exact same conclusion. Both my first and my current IC even added that the death of an unconfronted, unaccused, unreconciled abusive parent can do all these things but also set off a tremendous wave of relief and of absolute freedom, perhaps for the first time ever. And off they go.

And while the hurt is that she "gave up on me," the amazing, totally unexpected, never-to-be-believed outcome is that after about twelve of these eigteen months I actually, finally gave up on her. Which I vowed never to do.

I am detached. I am done. When I do see her, when she is here at the house, I don't ignore her. I go about my business with a "so she's here. Yeah, so?"

So here I am. After experiencing more loss in eighteen months than I have in my lifetime. Alive, well, back in some ways, still coming back in others, and clawing and struggling my way back in still other areas.
And learning and growing. And healing.

And realizing I still have much to offer.

And why?

Because, as I've said countless times before, of hundreds of kindred spirits who believe in the sanctity of marriage, the inviolate nature of their vows, who daily, -minute-by-minute- struggle against all odds, in the face of countless hurts, betrayals, affronts, and cruelty to repair and salvage and renew all that they've held so dear for so long. And all the while reaching out to help and comfort absolute strangers.

I've told this to Serenity. Now I say it to all of you: You, on this site and in your daily lives and struggles, are truly doing the Lord's work.

Thank you all from the bottom of my healing heart.

And while this is long and sentimental even by Gardener standards, I promise I won't do this again five days from now on the one-year anniversary of my first post! grin

God Bless you all.
Posted By: pollyanna Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/02/10 05:20 AM
Thank you for sharing
Posted By: pollyanna Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/02/10 05:22 AM
Quote:
Passing through? Lake Erie area? I think not.

But Gardener'll sure as hell go way out of his way on a side trip ("Road Trip!!") to to meetcha and take you up on lunch.

The zig zag I referenced is because I'd love to meet you, hoosiermama (IN), givingitmyall (GA), Sweet Serenity13 (FL) and others. Many others.

What fun!


Dont forget to pass through New Zealand ! -always welcome
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/02/10 10:40 AM
Hey G-man, thank you for your most recent post, that was something I needed to read today, for sure.

You are a good man, and have provided countless help to others, including myself, and I am grateful to you for all your help and insight, so from me to you today. Thank you!

Wishing you the best today!
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/02/10 12:13 PM
awesome, powerful, insightful post, g-man. thank you for sharing.
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/05/10 04:26 AM
G-man, it's great to see your sitch from your latest point of view. I echo the comments about your beliefs, your struggles and your patience. You did what you could and more.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/05/10 01:16 PM
polyanna,
I just noticed I never replied to you
Originally Posted By: pollyanna
Quote:
Passing through? Lake Erie area? I think not.

But Gardener'll sure as hell go way out of his way on a side trip ("Road Trip!!") to to meetcha and take you up on lunch.

The zig zag I referenced is because I'd love to meet you, hoosiermama (IN), givingitmyall (GA), Sweet Serenity13 (FL) and others. Many others.

What fun!
Dont forget to pass through New Zealand ! -always welcome
Thank you. New Zealand: NUMBER ONE on my "Bucket List" of countries to visit someday. Always has been. True.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/05/10 01:47 PM
Journaling,
And today...today

I miss my stepson and stepdaughter so very, very much it Just. Tears. Me. Apart!

Seven months. No Contact. No response.

Which began - inexplicably - right after our usual-big-hug-I-love-you, I-love-you-too-see-you-soon goodbye in midwest city as I was leaving after my three hour see-new-granddaughter trip/visit.

Since that day, nothing. Except stepddaughter's "Gardener, Stop contacting me." email response to my New Year's Eve note/wish to all of them.

WTF did X - could X - have told them after I left that would make them do that? Just like that. After seventeen loving years?

This was a large part of this week's IC session. It's only right that I feel this way. They are in pain, too. I'll never know why. Never. But they'll be back someday, etc., etc.

My mind knows this.
But the heart - as always - lags.
And today it overwhems me.

And it'll be over, soon, and I'll be okay I know...

But f%^K. Just f%^k.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/05/10 01:58 PM
I'm so sorry...and I soooo know how you feel. I miss my nieces and nephews intensely, and no less after 2 years have passed. it's the "collateral damage" that can be the most painful, I guess.

and yeah...what could they all have been told, after knowing us--REALLY knowing us--for so long? they ought to know better, they ought to know US better....

I know you've been following my sitch, and in the past week there's been remarkable movement and grace--not with my nieces and nephews, but my former parents-in-law. and what I learned is that they've been i pain too, they have experienced loss. and they didn't know how to handle it, and they didn't know how to handle xH in all of that, and they want us to continue to be part of each others' lives--even without xH. and I think things will eventually normalize to some degree with former family members I've been closer to as well. things move slowly, there are shifts...and then many things happen at once.

I mention these things to offer you hope, as well as to empathize with just how much this hurts.

((((gardener))))
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/05/10 02:05 PM
hm,
I know...I know.
All true. And in your case, how wonderful for you!
And in my case: Yes. Someday...
Thank you.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/05/10 02:12 PM
Gardener, as I said on someone else's thread, Divorce is the pain that just keeps on giving. I think it's sad that our society seems to look on D as something that happens, oh well, that's life, it happens to everybody blah blah blah but the pain and that collateral damage is so beyond that thinking. Anyway, my heart goes out to you.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/05/10 02:13 PM
yes...someday. I have no doubt of that. I don't know you nearly as well as THEY know you, of course, but I can see who you are.

and THEY know who you are, too. and it will come back to them.

and they'll come back to you.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/05/10 02:33 PM
wii,
Thank you.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/05/10 02:37 PM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
I don't know you nearly as well as THEY know you, of course, but I can see who you are.
and THEY know who you are, too. and it will come back to them.
and they'll come back to you.
Oh, damn, hm, just when my short cry was over, ya hadda go and hit me with that? cry frown smile grin laugh
You're sweet.
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/05/10 04:28 PM
Yes divorce is the gift that keeps on giving. I can imagine that XW probably put them in a position to make a choice. However, it will come back to bite her in the arse, because the kids WILL resent her for it.

And they will turn to you for answers. This is where your growth will come in, because you won't put them in that position.

I don't know what these people are thinking. (((Hugs)))
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/05/10 05:07 PM
Originally Posted By: LolaL
I don't know what these people are thinking.
Or, sometimes, if they're even thinking! smirk
Thanks.
(((hugs))) back atcha.
Posted By: iwantittowork Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/06/10 12:34 PM
Happy Sunday to you G-man. I don't have much advice for you today, other than to offer you a good day, sir, and you know in your heart that your kids (I call them kids, because the 'step' doesn't mean much. They are still your kids in your heart) will come back to you when they can, when they are hopefully out of there own fog, and probably not before.

I have never been much for 'faith', but that is changing lately. smile In this I would encourage you have faith, and give up your vision of an outcome to whatever is or what you think should happen...

As they say in AU, Cheers Mate!
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/09/10 01:41 AM
how's it going, g-guy?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/10/10 01:54 AM
Good, hm.
Loved the Natalie Merchant/Gerard Manley Hopkins video on the.alt.
Workin' my tail off, chipping away at financial sitch.
Tomorrow evening I have a meeting at Mediator's office with X re: a modification she wants to add to divorce settlement giving her a piece of the rent $ I'm getting from boarder. Can you say "chutzpah"?. I'm sure she'll come out getting something, though.
Overall, feeling better and better every day. Not gonna let tomorrow ruin that (I hope crazy )
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/10/10 03:20 AM
I just got done writing about the financial stuff on antler's thread. As I said there it's such a sore topic for me I don't even want to repeat talking about it. All I can say is karma's a bitch...hang in there G.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/10/10 03:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Good, hm.
Loved the Natalie Merchant/Gerard Manley Hopkins video on the.alt.
Workin' my tail off, chipping away at financial sitch.
Tomorrow evening I have a meeting at Mediator's office with X re: a modification she wants to add to divorce settlement giving her a piece of the rent $ I'm getting from boarder. Can you say "chutzpah"?. I'm sure she'll come out getting something, though.
Overall, feeling better and better every day. Not gonna let tomorrow ruin that (I hope crazy )

glad you liked it; my cousin (whom I've never met!)who posted it originally is an English teacher in New York state.

so glad you're feeling better daily! there's a lot to be said for momentum.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/11/10 11:10 PM
Journaling,
Gardener's usually, unfortunately, alone but rarely lonely.
Very lonely tonight (sigh).
This, too, shall pass.
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/11/10 11:26 PM
Get a dog if you don't already have one. Makes travel more difficult, but so long as you feed them and walk them, they will love you to death.
Posted By: whiskey.tango Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/11/10 11:30 PM
How did the meeting go last night?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/11/10 11:57 PM
Time heals,
I know. Cats too. At least mine did. Came whenever I called him. I used to sing him a song that, over time, made him go purring, leg-rubbing crazy whenever I sang it. My first cat. Walked into local cat shelter and, after eyeing me, jumped down from the window sill and ran over to rub my leg. He adopted me.

X asked to have him when she left so she wouldn't be alone (hey, what about me?) "Mr. Nice Guy" said, "Sure!" as usual, especially in those pleading, eggshell-walking, post-bomb days. X promptly went out and bought a teacup/toy/whatever dog for $700. I got scammed out of my first and only connected-to cat.

But Gardener goes on and on as usual (more than usual since he's lonely tonight).

After sale of house, I will be renting small, temporary digs until I move cross-country. Dog might limit my rental options.
But after that....
Definitely.
Thanks for responding with a great idea, TH. And thanks for listening.
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 12:01 AM
Where are you moving cross country to? You aren't like those Big 12 schools that are all jumping to join the PAC-10? If so, we welcome you the left coast, but I must warn you...the ocean water is freak'n cold here.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 12:08 AM
whiskey,

It went fine. X got 1/2 of what she wanted re: part of the proceeds of rental $ from tenant. I got all of what I wanted on two other issues.

I was centered, relaxed. Went there dressed up and looking great, just like in early DB, LRT days. Why? Just because.

X still looks matronly, drawn, tired, unattractive and unappealing. And, of course, came with her ever-present, surgically-attached teacup dog.

I was cordial, polite, nice, conversational. Moreso than I should have been with someone who abandoned her vows and bolted rather than repair, accused me of false, vile things along the way, and got my beloved stepchildren to suddenly, inexplicably cut me off.

But then again, I'm not done reading No More Mr. Nice Guy.

Thanks for asking. And thanks for your positive energy offered in the .alt. Outside, before going in, as I centered myself, I thought of your energy promise and tapped into it. True.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 12:12 AM
Hey, Young Kerry,

Actually, Eugene, Oregon.
For reasons that make no sense - except to me.
A kind of kismet thing happened in that regard.
Having never been a sports fan, the rest of your post reads like Klingon to me.
Except for the friggin' cold water part!
Thanks,
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 12:21 AM
Welcome to the Beaver State!

Dont pee in the Willamete as I am down river from you.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 12:34 AM
Kerry,
Hey!
You're in Oregon?
Oh, boy another DBer I'd like to visit in my cross-country trek but won't have to zig-zag my way to you in order to do so.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 12:39 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Kerry,
Hey!
You're in Oregon?
Oh, boy another DBer I'd like to visit in my cross-country trek but won't have to zig-zag my way to you in order to do so.


Hey, I think there could be a movie in this...National Lampoon's Divorcebusting Vacation! grin
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 12:45 AM
Hi Gardener-
I hope the lonely feeling fades quickly for you. And TH is right about the dog- Jazzie has been so good for my emotional health and given me such a boost. She graduated from intermediate-level training class tonight!

PS- let me know if you decide to travel near Ohio when you're making that journey westward!

Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 12:52 AM
wii,
Originally Posted By: whatisis
Hey, I think there could be a movie in this...National Lampoon's Divorcebusting Vacation! grin
I haven't given one out in a while, but that earns you a coveted Belly-Laugh Of The Day Award laugh laugh laugh
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 01:00 AM
Bunny!
How are you?
My DB community has made the lonliness fade. As always, the Cavalry rides to the rescue!

Dog is definitely on the list. Just not now: the house is on the market, I work long days, sometimes 6 or 7 days a week to keep my head- and this NON-SELLING house - above water.

I would LOVE to come visit you when I travel. Frankly (no exaggeration, here) you have grown more as a person, and travelled through and out of Hell more than anyone I've met here.
It would be an honor.

How are you doing, Bunny?
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 01:18 AM
just jumping in here to say hi on your lonely evening. sounds like it got better before I got home to read.

glad the meeting went well. gosh, it seems like these things never end, doesn't it?

re: dog(s)--I have 3. Three seems to be my number--I've had 3 for most of my adult life. currently: sweet golden retriever, wacky rat terrier, and german shorthair with serious ADHD. all found me in some way. love cats, too, but it would be a miserable existence for one in my current mix. I can't imagine not having the company!
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 01:33 AM
Originally Posted By: TimeHeals
Get a dog if you don't already have one.

Um.. yeah... good idea.

When you get one, make sure it's of the male persuasion. I think you've had enough of dealing with a b****.

Dig into yourself G-man. You got it.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 01:35 AM
hm,
Oh, I want a golden retriever or golden lab!
My oldest son had a black lab/retriever mix for ten years. What a honey. He was human! My son and he were a pack of two. Home, work, play, always together.
It was truly a sight to see.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 01:57 AM
oh, they're wonderful dogs. I worked with the local golden retriever rescue for several years and fostered more than I can accurately remember. such lovely companions!
Posted By: Daybreak Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 02:41 AM
I have to agree that having dogs is a wonderful thing. My two (one a female golden and one a male shepard mix - both appropriately doctored up) are very loyal and great to have around when I don't have the kids. Both of them were adopted via a PetSmart adoption day and they may have their issues but psychopups need love too! grin
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 02:59 AM
Gardener, I'm not too far away from OR. In fact, my dream was to retire there on a ranch working on tractors/cars/trucks in my barn, living a self-sufficient life...with the STBXW. That would've been a nice contrast to my hi-tech life today. But never got a chance to visit OR. I'd planned to camp in OR this year but that was before 'fhit hit the san'.

We have two cats (still with me). I've always wanted a dog ever since I was little and DD's been asking for one forever but a friend of mine said that having a dog is like having a 2yo for the next 10 years and then the heartbreak and to recover you get another and the cycle never stops. After hearing that I changed my mind but would love to have a dog I could take camping with when going into the back country. My choice would be a yellow lab but could settle for a dobberman. When I was a kid I always wanted a German Shepered but I hear with the wolf-family dogs you gotta make sure you're always the alpha male or they can get nasty quickly.
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 03:35 AM
Quote:
a friend of mine said that having a dog is like having a 2yo for the next 10 years


And I have two very spoiled ones. They keep me busy just cleaning up after them smile
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 10:29 AM
Originally Posted By: TimeHeals
Quote:
a friend of mine said that having a dog is like having a 2yo for the next 10 years


And I have two very spoiled ones. They keep me busy just cleaning up after them smile

well, yeah...there is that!
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 11:59 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
and got my beloved stepchildren to suddenly, inexplicably cut me off.


I can relate. I came into the life of my oldest daughter when she was 2 years old. I've been the only father she's ever known. I've loved her as my own. She has washed her hands of me, after being 'schooled' and encouraged to do so by her mother. It breaks my heart daily. I often think of her being little, and how much time just she and I spent together...it kills me that things are the way they are.

I've got cats. I never did like them. Then I got one for the kids after their mother left, and I liked it...a lot. So since then, we've gotten another one. They are valued members of the family. They provide a 'calming' effect to the household.

How are you doing G?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 11:34 PM
Romeo,
Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo
...a friend of mine said that having a dog is like having a 2yo for the next 10 years and then the heartbreak and to recover you get another and the cycle never stops.
One takes the same risk with people. We're mortal. We know not the day nor the hour.
And a dog? Oh, the unconditional love and loyalty, the bond far outweighs the inevitable end, imo.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/12/10 11:56 PM
ant,
Originally Posted By: antlers
Originally Posted By: Gardener
and got my beloved stepchildren to suddenly, inexplicably cut me off.
I can relate. I came into the life of my oldest daughter when she was 2 years old. I've been the only father she's ever known. I've loved her as my own. She has washed her hands of me, after being 'schooled' and encouraged to do so by her mother. It breaks my heart daily.
Me, too. When it overwhelms me I think two things: "They are in pain, too," and "they'll be back."
They are.
They will.

Twice - years ago - when co-workers were debating the + vs. - of raising boys vs. girls, I chimed in with, "Well, I had my first daughter when she was fourteen! And her first words were, 'I don't like (Gardener)!'"
But how we grew to love each other!

Stepson, 32 blew me away in a heart-to-heart one month after the bomb by saying, "I've always thought of you as my real father." Not "just like a father," but "Like my real father." I broke down.

And you came into your stepdaughter's life when she was two? You truly are her father. She'll be back.

They'll be back.
Period.
My mantra. My heartfelt belief.
Originally Posted By: antlers
How are you doing G?
Good, thanks. Working my tail off six, six and a half days a week temporarily to catch up and keep some wolves away from the door. The fact that X went legal on me when I took in a boarder to ensure there will still be a house to sell and split proceeds and got 53% of the rent (retroactively: when the house sells) just blows me away. Thank you, X. Thank you, state of CT.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/13/10 01:34 AM
Quote:
You truly are her father. She'll be back.

They'll be back.
Period.
My mantra. My heartfelt belief.

fwiw--I believe it too.

This is not reality, altho it may temporarily be their reality. But I have no doubt--even in my own sitch, with my nieces and nephews--they'll eventually figure it out. xH will continue to be. . .well, xH. and they'll be disgusted at being lied to, disgusted at how they were manipulated into responding (like my former parents-in-law) and the discomfort of living inauthentically will outweigh the discomfort of facing someone they know they've behaved badly toward. some days, gardener, it's more a hope than a belief. but most of the time....
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/13/10 04:00 AM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
...the discomfort of living inauthentically will outweigh the discomfort of facing someone they know they've behaved badly toward. some days, gardener, it's more a hope than a belief. but most of the time....
Exactly. Perfectly put.
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
some days, gardener, it's more a hope than a belief. but most of the time....
Oh, I hear you.
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/13/10 12:32 PM
You truly are her father. She'll be back.

They'll be back.
Period.
My mantra. My heartfelt belief.

When it overwhelms me I think two things: "They are in pain, too," and "they'll be back."
They are.
They will.



Thank you Gardener and hoosiermama. I hope you guys are right about this.
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/13/10 04:03 PM
I really hope that they all do come back- yours and Antlers and everyone's. I am astonished at these mothers using the kids as sounding boards, telling them personal stuff the marriages that's none of their business, and trash-talking the dads (or step-dads- still applies). It doesn't matter how old the kids are, they are still the CHILDREN and not the wives' friends/buddies/BFFs/whatever, and telling them personal information is just not appropriate. Boundaries apply to the kids too, not just the stbx.

Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/13/10 06:38 PM
I had a friend whose ex used to tell the D that mom was a slut, whore etc. (btw, he was the one cheating on her) Finally, a court appointed lawyer for the child heard these things from the child, went to court and had his visitation cut back to supervised visits at a government visitation center. He refused to go and therefore never saw his child. He was a Muslim and apparently his ex was a slut, whore etc because she wore a dress once in a while and went dancing maybe twice a year. I don't want to paint all Muslims with the same brush so we'll just call him a crazy Muslim!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/14/10 01:18 AM
Thank you, Bunny,
So true. My X made her daughter her confidante. When Stepdaughter shared one thing with me, I later quoted it to STBX during her faux, phony pre-divorce remorse telephone meltdown saying."Not to me, you didn't. I wish you had told me! She responded, "I know. I wish I had, too.'

Right.

How are you?
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/15/10 05:05 AM
Gardener, just checking on you to see how things are going? When are you planning to move to OR?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/15/10 10:13 PM
Romeo,
Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo
Gardener, just checking on you to see how things are going? When are you planning to move to OR?

Good, thanks.Working my tail off, 6-61/2 days a week. Have stopped the financial slide and reversed it. Chipping away little by little. Friday, I go to court to file for modification & get served re: X wanting some of the proceeds I now get by renting out 2nd floor master bedroom suite. mad
Overall, things are very good in the mental, physical, emotional, spiritual "arenas" and improving ever-so-slightly financially. Socially? Lagging behind.
I'm moving to Oregon when this friggin' house finally sells. How soon after the sale depends on what time of the year/season it is.

Haven't been to your thread today, yet and I'm heading out for a bit. How how goes it? I'll check in later.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/15/10 11:14 PM
gosh, g-man--wonder why your social life's lagging?! could it be that working 6-6 1/2 days/week thing?!

glad things are going well, tho!
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/15/10 11:47 PM
G, glad to hear you're getting a handle on the financials. That's awesome!! That's what we do, we figure out ways to fix problems not run away.

As for your social life, one thing at a time G. Don't stress over it. Do what you can today and leave the rest when things calm down a bit - and they will.

You know G, if you end up paying her a portion of the rental just consider it charity and move on. Not worth your time and energy fighting over it.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/16/10 02:01 AM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
gosh, g-man--wonder why your social life's lagging?! could it be that working 6-6 1/2 days/week thing?!
Ya think? wink I am getting out though.

Going to The Gathering Of The Vibes www.gatheringofthevibes.com/Home next month.

Pete Seger's annual Clearwater's Festival this Sunday www.clearwaterfestival.org (been wanting to go for years).

Looking for places where like-minded, similar interests/lifestyles people would be. And breaking out of my lifelong under-the-radar style by striking up conversations everywhere.

Baby steps. No expectations. But fun.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/16/10 02:03 AM
Romeo,
Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo
As for your social life, one thing at a time G. Don't stress over it.
My thoughts and approach exactly.
Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo
You know G, if you end up paying her a portion of the rental just consider it charity and move on. Not worth your time and energy fighting over it.
Ditto.

Thanks.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/16/10 02:04 AM
THAT is fabulous! sounds like a lot of fun.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/19/10 02:27 AM
Journaling,

Court today to submit Modification and to schedule the hearing date. Got there 15 minutes early. Did my part of paperwork and payment.

X called five minutes late. Said she'd be another 10 minutes or so. Showed up 15 minutes late (becoming quite a consistent habit. Passive-Aggressive.). In retrospect, I realized I shouldn't even have answered the phone.
When she showed up I suddenly had a thought and asked Clerk if I was done. Yes, says clerk.
"Goodbye, X."
I left immediately.

Toy Story 3 with S, 31 & GS, 4 this evening for early Fathers' Day (I'll be at a festival all day Sunday). Great time. Great Movie!

Almost teared up when Woody was described as someone who'll always be there for you. Always. Never let you down. Followed by, "So long, Partner."
But I stopped. I refused.

Work today was great. Beautiful day. Work tomorrow. And, like I said, Festival Sunday.
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/19/10 04:24 AM
Sounds like you got the court stuff done so a productive day there and you got to go out and watch a good movie with S too.

What do you do Gardener? Landscaping as the name implies?
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/20/10 01:11 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Journaling,

"Goodbye, X."
I left immediately.

Toy Story 3 with S, 31 & GS, 4 this evening for early Fathers' Day (I'll be at a festival all day Sunday). Great time. Great Movie!

Almost teared up when Woody was described as someone who'll always be there for you. Always. Never let you down. Followed by, "So long, Partner."
But I stopped. I refused.


excellent response to the ex. well done, g.

Toy Story was my daughter's absolute favorite thru her young childhood. Buzz and Woody dolls went with us everywhere, followed by Bullseye and Jessie when they arrived on the scene. in fact, we were at the opening matinee of Toy Story 2...and she's at her dad's for Toy Story 3, which I'm trying not to find terribly sad. But...I stopped. and I refused too. nothing's gonna spoil those memories for me!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/20/10 09:06 PM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
...and she's at her dad's for Toy Story 3, which I'm trying not to find terribly sad. But...I stopped. and I refused too. nothing's gonna spoil those memories for me!
Take her to see Toy Story 3 again with you. What? She's gonna refuse? She'd love to see it again!
Go with your daughter.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/20/10 09:13 PM
Romeo,
Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo
Sounds like you got the court stuff done so a productive day there and you got to go out and watch a good movie with S too.
You got it. Great day all around.
Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo
What do you do Gardener? Landscaping as the name implies?
Pretty much. Got my own niche all to myself somewhere in the middle: even more as the name implies, I'm a Master Gardener. Annual, perennial bed design and maintenance, ornamental shrub and tree care for a handful or two of wealthy folks.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/20/10 09:29 PM
Journaling,
After work yesterday, drove out to Long Island for a dinner, evening, and overnight with best-friend-since-kindergarten and his new (18months) wife.
Great time.
Wife started telling me about a life-long friend of hers, 52, who lives about five miles from me.

Really? Tell me more.

She's never been married. Okay, Strike One. That's got red flag all over it for a 52 year old woman, imo.

Has always lived with, supported, and argues constantly with elderly Mom. Strike Two. I need no drama baggage, thank you. Got my own suitcases full wink

"Rather aggressive woman, but nice,nonetheless." Strike Three.

"Thanks, good friends, for thinking of me, but I'm really not relationship-ready at all, yet."

Wife cooked me and best friend huge, great Fathers' Day breakfast (how sweet).

Then I left and went up to the Pete Seeger Hudson Clearwater Festival. What a wonderful, beautiful, happy time. Wound up talking to two women I struck up conversations with. Didn't go anywhere; it wasn't going to and I didn't want it to. Just more fun, ballsy breaking-out-of the shell 180/GAL for me.

First Fathers' Day in 17 years I didn't hear from StepS or StepD. Not surprised, but still frown

Heard from my two wonderful sons grin

Realized about a half hour ago that today is X's birthday. Never crossed my mind. That makes two birthdays in a row - out of seventeen - that she woke up alone without G doing some "bed-dancing" with her (my word for it) while singing her the Beatles "Happy Birthday."

Hope she missed it again.
I sure missed it last year.
I didn't today.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/20/10 10:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
...and she's at her dad's for Toy Story 3, which I'm trying not to find terribly sad. But...I stopped. and I refused too. nothing's gonna spoil those memories for me!
Take her to see Toy Story 3 again with you. What? She's gonna refuse? She'd love to see it again!
Go with your daughter.

oh, yeah, she wants to see it again! my d is not a cool, jaded teen--and I love that about her. we're definitely going...but it may need to wait until she returns from her choir trip to Chicago.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/20/10 10:15 PM
Journaling 2,

A couple of months ago, I invited a select group of people to a barbecue at my house later in July. All accepted: my son, (son in Colorado can't be there, of course), my brother and wife (and two nephews), aforementioned best-friend since- kindergarten and wife, Good friend since high school and his wife. Good friend and wife of 20 years, good friend and wife of 30 years. My Selfless Support Group.

Last night, best-friend-since-kindergarten asked me why, is it for your birthday, since that's the day before?

No, I told him. After all my venting and the unconditional support I've received and taking stock of what's really important these last many months, I invited everyone for 4 reasons:

Not in order:
1) I really thought the house would've sold in the spring market with perhaps an August 1 closing (no such luck mad), so it would have been a final party at the ol' homestead.

2) This group comprises the thirteen or fourteen people in my life who - over many years - have never, ever, let me down. That, alone is reason to acknowledge, honor, and celebrate them.

3) They all know each other (for the most part) but many haven't seen each other in years, or ever. I decided that it's about time that the most important people in my life meet - or re-meet - the most important people in my life.

4) To thank them all.

I am really looking forward to this!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/20/10 10:18 PM
hm,
Good!
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/20/10 10:37 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
She's never been married. Okay, Strike One. That's got red flag all over it for a 52 year old woman, imo.
I have to agree. Although it is silly when you think about it, but in this day and age, if someone my age has not been married, the first thing I think is what is wrong with them
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/20/10 10:38 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Has always lived with, supported, and argues constantly with elderly Mom. Strike Two. I need no drama baggage, thank you. Got my own suitcases full wink
Is there a female version of Norman Bates
Originally Posted By: Gardener
"Rather aggressive woman, but nice,nonetheless." Strike Three.
Sure. If you enjoy getting your ass kicked.
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/20/10 10:40 PM

There is something I have discovered about well meaning friends. Although in theory it is great to "find someone" through friends, I am not sure that it is the best way to go. When you first meet someone, I think it is more beneficial to get to know them by yourself, rather than having the well meaning input of friends who know them. Who they are with you may not be who they are with someone else. What is that Billy Joel song: "the Stranger"??? We all have that face...
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/20/10 10:42 PM
sorry you didn't hear from the step-adult-kids. this year. next year will be different, I'm willing to bet.

and...good call on the possible set-up. 5 miles away is waaaaaaay too close for someone who, um, fits the description you got!! more red flags than a bullfighting ring (and my guess is, that's not the only resemblance....)
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/21/10 01:34 AM
LolaL
Originally Posted By: LolaL

There is something I have discovered about well meaning friends. Although in theory it is great to "find someone" through friends, I am not sure that it is the best way to go. When you first meet someone, I think it is more beneficial to get to know them by yourself, rather than having the well meaning input of friends who know them. Who they are with you may not be who they are with someone else. What is that Billy Joel song: "the Stranger"??? We all have that face...
Exactly!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/21/10 01:37 AM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
sorry you didn't hear from the step-adult-kids. this year. next year will be different, I'm willing to bet.

and...good call on the possible set-up. 5 miles away is waaaaaaay too close for someone who, um, fits the description you got!! more red flags than a bullfighting ring (and my guess is, that's not the only resemblance....)

Thank you for your kind words about the "kids"
And "Amen" to the rest!
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/21/10 02:55 AM
Happy fathers day Gardener!

And I agree about the red flags with the other lady...

Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/21/10 04:31 AM
Hey G, just checking in. Funny you mentioned about the red flags. I met this one girl a few months ago who is 31 never married, now 31 is not old but I'd already had a kid by then. Anyway, exchanged a few IMs and email conversations and a few more red flags popped up. The last straw was when she snapped during an IM conversation because I told her to go have dinner (it was 10pm and she was complaining she was starving) in a caring way and she thought I was commanding her! jeezus! I just sat there with my jaw dropped for a few secs. I told her I really had to go and never talked to her since. It kinda made me miss my STBXW because I kept thinking how she knew me so well and I [thought] knew her so well and now I'll have to start over fumbling and bumbling my way through this. Sometimes I ask myself if I should really even bother anymore? I'm sure with age my 'needs' will die down (hopefully! and I never thought I'd say that lol) and if I really needed a companion to go places with me maybe I'll get a dog instead smile

OK some silly talking there but sometimes I type what I'm thinking.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/22/10 01:29 AM
Romeo,
An experience from hell...
Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo
OK some silly talking there but sometimes I type what I'm thinking.
Name of the game - and why we're all here, friend.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/22/10 01:52 AM
Bunny!
Originally Posted By: SpyBunny
Happy fathers day Gardener!

And I agree about the red flags with the other lady...

Hugs, Bunny
Thank you.
How are you?
What's new in the Burrow?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/22/10 02:15 AM
My positive vibes and manifestation for tonight.
(And for any of you hurt, discarded souls who need a positive vibes/manifestation pick-me-up):

Wherever You Are
Mary Chapin Carpenter

Iím looking for a strong and steady heart
For a love that wonít fall apart
At the first sign of trouble, near or far
Iím looking through eyes that have shed some tears
And Iím looking for that one whoís gonna face my fears
Without thinking he must erase each scar

Iím gonna find you baby, wherever you are
Wherever you are love wonít leave you stranded
Wherever you are love wonít let you hide
Wherever you are, one of these days
Weíll be walking side by side
All it takes is some time and destiny
A little courage for those days when all we see
Is a cold lonely rain coming down hard

Iím gonna find you baby, wherever you are
Wherever you are love wonít leave you stranded
Wherever you are love wonít let you hide
Wherever you are, one of these days
Weíll be walking side by side
Iím looking for a love thatís meant for me
I canít be bothered with some wannabe
Just like the light from heavenís stars
Iím gonna find you
Iím gonna find you
Iím gonna find you
Iím gonna find you baby, wherever you are

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU8O7hxTsTw&...=1&index=36
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/22/10 02:19 AM
love it. absolutely love it.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/22/10 02:24 AM
Okay,
Gardener's taking a self-serving, yet genuine, sincere poll:
Any of you DB ladies within striking distance/driving distance of Peekskill, NY?
Reply here or on the .alt.
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/23/10 04:34 PM
Just catching up G, I've been MIA from your guys' threads.

Sounds like you're getting ready for a roadtrip! Whenever you come to the west coast you know "who you gonna call!!" smile
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/23/10 04:52 PM
Romeo,
Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo
Sounds like you're getting ready for a roadtrip! Whenever you come to the west coast you know "who you gonna call!!" smile
Yep. But not for a while. I'm figurin within six months after this house (ever) sells.
Oh, I'll call you if I'm in SoCal.
Posted By: LolaL Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/23/10 05:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Okay,
Gardener's taking a self-serving, yet genuine, sincere poll:
Any of you DB ladies within striking distance/driving distance of Peekskill, NY?
Reply here or on the .alt.


Um hello...
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/23/10 08:25 PM
Quick, Random journaling,

A favorite song just Shuffled up on the ol' iPod: Bob Seger's "Like A Rock."

This, like some of his other classics (e.g., "Night Moves," "Main Street,", etc.) is almost a short story set to music. I've always been partial to the ones where he gets introspective at the end, like "Night Moves" and this one.

And, "Like A Rock" has one of the best, wrenching guitar solos - ever. I used to have that solo playing in the background of my message on my clunky old "answering machine" (dating myself, here...which, I guess, is the whole point of this random post).

Anywaaay...It hits me today that when the singer - reflecting back at thirty-eight to his eighteen year-old self - says "Twenty years now...where'd they go?", I'm damn near close to having to substitute Forty for Twenty!

When the hell did that happen?! shocked

Thank God I still mostly feel eighteen. grin

Oh, and those facial, physical and emotional lines and crinkles?
Those are just life's markings that give me a comfortable, well-worn character. Like fine distressed leather. whistle whistle whistle

www.youtube.com/watch?v=keIvA2wSPZc
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/23/10 08:38 PM
Bob has one heck of a lot of great songs.

"Turn the Page"
"Against the Wind"
"We've Got Tonight"
"Roll Me Away"
etc...

I literally wore out his 1978 "Stranger in Town" album when it came out.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/23/10 08:57 PM
Kerry,
Originally Posted By: KerryK
Bob has one heck of a lot of great songs.

"Turn the Page"
"Against the Wind"
"We've Got Tonight"
"Roll Me Away"
etc...

I literally wore out his 1978 "Stranger in Town" album when it came out.
Without a doubt, the best (surprise) concert I ever saw was in 1973 when someone (very temporarily) re-opened the old Fillmore East Theatre in the East Village, NYC, calling it the NFE (New Fillmore East).

I went to see Bachman-Turner Overdrive.

First opening act: someone named Billy Joel ("Captain Jack" had just been released, I believe).

Second opening act: Bob Seger And The Silver Bullet Band (recently re-christened from The Bob Seger System, I later found out). "Katmandu" and even "Live Bullet" were still a couple of years in the future, then.

After them, before BTO came on, I was thinking, "Who are these two guys?!"

"And why the hell aren't they famous?!"

Great. Just great. "37 years now, where'd they go?..."
Posted By: bright_new_day Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/23/10 09:07 PM
How many DB'ers are there in SoCal? I used to live there and will be visiting in early-mid July. A DB meet-up would be great!!!!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/23/10 09:24 PM
Bright,
Originally Posted By: bright_new_day
How many DB'ers are there in SoCal? I used to live there and will be visiting in early-mid July. A DB meet-up would be great!!!!
Not me (Southern Connecticut), unfortunately.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/25/10 01:59 AM
Journaling,
Tough day. Temporary gig at Premiere landscaping company ended due to slowdown in business, but I had five weeks of add'l income which helped. Winter-gig friend wants me to work for him every Saturday through August, so that will take up some slack.

I was on somebody's thread (I'm sorry I forget who: I follow so many) who referenced Snodderly's thread/posts in MLC from a few years back. Read through all of them. She is very wise, Snodderly.

Her posts confirmed - and filled in many gaps and questions - my theory that X's horribly physically abusive father's death five months before the bomb precipitated it all: awoke buried demons, which she aimed at me, as the most important male figure in her life (at that time) and then she...ran. She had to.

Snodderly talks about the importance of being the totally non-judgemental friend - not spouse - during this time.
I was. As I posted many times before, on my bedroom mirror I taped a note; "Your dearest friend is very confused and in a tremendous amount of pain. Remember this."

Sometimes I second guess myself on telling her, "I'm sorry, but no," when she met me to ask if we could start being friends. How I would have jumped at that opening at any time to prior to that. But her waiting until six weeks after the D to make that overture just smacked of guilt-assuaging and cake-eating.

I couldn't do it.

Consequences.

(sigh)
One of those days. Most days alone. Today? Lonely.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/25/10 02:10 AM
Quote:
Sometimes I second guess myself on telling her, "I'm sorry, but no," when she met me to ask if we could start being friends. How I would have jumped at that opening at any time to prior to that. But her waiting until six weeks after the D to make that overture just smacked of guilt-assuaging and cake-eating.

I couldn't do it.

...and it probably was guilt-assuaging and cake-eating. that's such a part of the "syndrome."

but you have to remember that you were also confused and in a tremendous amount of pain at the time, and you can only do what you can do. besides, the legal process makes it nearly impossible not to regard each other as adversaries as long as anything is pending. when it's all over--the house sale, etc.--and the dust has settled, then new possibilities might exist.

another favorite quote from Rilke: "A person isn't who they are during the last conversation you had with them - they're who they've been throughout your whole relationship."
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/25/10 03:11 AM
Thanks, hm
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
another favorite quote from Rilke: "A person isn't who they are during the last conversation you had with them - they're who they've been throughout your whole relationship."
Not X. Not anymore. That person's long gone (or hiding behind that damned wall real good).
Posted By: NoLongerHere Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/25/10 03:29 AM
Posting to lend some support, hang in there buddy. Let tomorrow come, it's on its way.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/25/10 03:34 AM
Thanks, G.
Have done quite a bit of lurking at your place.
It's time I posted,
See you soon.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/25/10 03:34 AM
Gardener, you don't have to be her friend, there's no law that says you have to want to chum around with the person who ripped your heart out. Some can do it, mostly for the kids but there's no shame in saying NO CAN DO! Don't sweat it, now go drop something heavy on your foot, you'll thank me later!
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/25/10 03:46 AM
Quote:
the legal process makes it nearly impossible not to regard each other as adversaries as long as anything is pending.


So true.

G, hang in there...we all have those days. Do whatever makes you feel happy. Sorry about the gig but sounds like you have a safety net. Hope you find another gig soon.
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/25/10 04:10 AM
Speaking of Bob Seger's songs...I gotta add 'Risky Business' to my Netflix queue now smile
Posted By: smith18 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/25/10 04:59 AM
Are you queuing up "Risky Business" for Bob Seger or for Tom Cruise? Is this a video of Tom Cruise going through MLC?...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFBZ_uAbxS0

I dont think it is MLC. I call it Batchit Crazy.
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/26/10 04:53 AM
Don't know much about his religion but I tend to agree with your assessment. I remembered the movie because of the song and the Porsche in it and it's been ages since I last saw it.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/26/10 03:53 PM
Originally Posted By: KerryK
Are you queuing up "Risky Business" for Bob Seger or for Tom Cruise? Is this a video of Tom Cruise going through MLC?...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFBZ_uAbxS0

I dont think it is MLC. I call it Batchit Crazy.


ohhhhh yeah. watched it for 10 seconds, saw the look in his eyes...yup, defintitely some kinda pathology there!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/26/10 08:39 PM
wii,
Originally Posted By: whatisis
Gardener, you don't have to be her friend, there's no law that says you have to want to chum around with the person who ripped your heart out. Some can do it, mostly for the kids but there's no shame in saying NO CAN DO! Don't sweat it, now go drop something heavy on your foot, you'll thank me later!
I know. As I told her that day, "friends don't do what you've done." This week, I was second guessing myself after reading Snodderly's excellent posts in the MLC archives thread about "Runaway MLCers": Above all, be their friend.

But not after they've already divorced you, Gardener! crazy
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/26/10 08:40 PM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
Originally Posted By: KerryK
Are you queuing up "Risky Business" for Bob Seger or for Tom Cruise? Is this a video of Tom Cruise going through MLC?...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFBZ_uAbxS0

I dont think it is MLC. I call it Batchit Crazy.


ohhhhh yeah. watched it for 10 seconds, saw the look in his eyes...yup, defintitely some kinda pathology there!
Watch the whole thing; it's a hoot. He's damn-near messianic!
Posted By: job Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/26/10 10:53 PM
Gardener.
Being a friend does not necessarily mean best pals/buds, it can also mean "friendly". No one can be a true friend to someone who has done what they've done to you and others here. True friends don't do what they've done and continue to do.

Do not second guess yourself. I've followed your postings and you've done everything you can to be friendly and supportive to your xw.

Move forward and some day, the dynamics of your communication/relationship w/your xw may change, but it won't be for a long time.

It's time to focus on you and your future.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/27/10 02:57 AM
snodderly,
Originally Posted By: snodderly
Gardener.
Being a friend does not necessarily mean best pals/buds, it can also mean "friendly". No one can be a true friend to someone who has done what they've done to you and others here. True friends don't do what they've done and continue to do.

Do not second guess yourself. I've followed your postings and you've done everything you can to be friendly and supportive to your xw.

Move forward and some day, the dynamics of your communication/relationship w/your xw may change, but it won't be for a long time.

It's time to focus on you and your future.
I'm honored. I have gleaned so much from your Runaway MLC thread from several years back. Read it all. And printed much out.

Much new insight. Much reinforcing what I had intuited over the months.
Friends? No. She ended our friendship. Repeatedly.

I don't know how long you've been following, but a couple of months ago I "interviewed" 4 new ICs. At that time, I posted
Originally Posted By: Gardener
I also consulted with a psychiatrist who I saw for 6 or so sessions in '06 as I undertook quitting alcohol. Back then, I had I asked Mrs. G. to accompany me and, thankfully, she did; it helped a lot. When I brought him up to date on the last 4+ years, and the walk away, inexplicable alien behavior of former wife (adding a description of her horrid FOO and upbringing) as well as the sudden death of her physically abusive father five months before the Bomb, he made a most interesting comment: "I always had a sense that Mrs. G. was speaking from a place of deep trauma."
Her father died and ended our marriage.
And then, 6 weeks or so after our divorce, this exchange:
Originally Posted By: Gardener
X: Well, since you had said once in the Mediator's office that you wanted to still be friends, I thought it would be nice to...start.
G: (Pause) I think you misunderstood. You had used the word "civil" and I said I hated that word but I would always act friendly and polite. ACT friendly.
X: Surprised. Silence.
G: X, you ended our friendship. The way I view it, if any friend - (citing three of mine:) friend 1, friend 2, or friend 3 - any friend demonstrated to me - proved to me - that their word, their promise, their commitment, let alone vow, was meaningless, worthless, I would consider that friend to have ended our friendship at that point. You ended our friendship many times in many ways throughout this. You've made it clear that you are no longer my friend and I don't want to be yours.
X: Well, um, I guess I certainly misunderstood that.(coversation @ mediator's)
G: I'll act friendly and polite if we find ourselves at a family function or something. Friendly and respectful.
X:(some kind of mumbled comment which felt like a "how big of you" sarcasm.) I ignored it, smiling.
G: X, friends don't do the things you've done.
Ant that's where I remain to this day.

Long before I pieced this all together, I remember telling my IC more than once, "I will be okay. I will come out of this. But I have the feeling that my dear friend is in for a big fall."

Thanks, again, snodderly.
For everything.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/27/10 03:10 AM
Gardener, you kicked alcohol too! I haven't had a drink in at least 30 years. The army taught me to drink and I discharged the habit early with a little help from a rehab program. The army used to have a commercial that sang "There's no life like it and I won't forget the day that I learned to live the Forces way" We used to sing "there's no bar like it, and I won't forget the day that I learned to drink the Forces way" Hey, beer was cheap, hell they used to line us up for a beer ration when we were out in the boonies somewhere. Anyway, enough of that, but I'm damn proud of the fact that through all the stress I've been through while DBing and afterwards, I have never touched a drop. A friend once asked me if I was tempted but I said that anything that would threaten my access to my kids is not an option! What's your story, only if you want to share it, don't feel you have to!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/27/10 03:14 AM
Journaling,

Whereas last Sunday I went through the whole day without realizing - until about bedtime - that it was X's birthday, tonight I am very aware that tomorrow would have been our eighteenth anniversary and Monday is nineteen years since the day we met.

Last year, I just got out of Dodge for the weekend. Went up to the Adirondacks and climbed my first mountain.

No such desire (or funds) this year.

Was going to just take off early for the day and follow my nose, but after @10:30 house showing tomorrow, someone's coming by to look at a couple of items I craigslisted.

I'll probably just take off after that. And drive.

And in the final analysis, it was all so unnecessary - to me.
And all so very necessary - somehow - to her.
(sigh).

Once my bride, the love of my life.

Now the person who ran and destroyed everything.

A shame. Just a shame.

"Seems my love has up and left me with no warning...
All things must pass
All things must pass away."
George Harrison
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/27/10 03:20 AM
Anniversaries can be so hard! They bring back the pain but, on the bright side, it gets less as time goes on. My anniversary is on Christmas Eve, the Pastor thought it would be so romantic and we went for it! The last few years of our marriage we would take our kids out to "celebrate" with us because there was really nothing left to celebrate together. Anyway, do something that you'll enjoy tomorrow, this too shall pass smile
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/27/10 03:33 AM
wii,
Originally Posted By: whatisis
Gardener, you kicked alcohol too!... What's your story, only if you want to share it, don't feel you have to!
from '04 to '06 I began self-medicating a steady buzz every single night with wine. Why I did is a long story and irrelevant now.
I looked into many options when I realized this had gotten out of hand. While I had a few friends who had been turned around by AA, It didn't resonate with me at all. If it works for others, God bless. But I felt, despite being a deeply religious person, that AA was too religious for me.
Also, I felt:
I was not diseased.
Not insane.
Not powerless.
My life had not become unmanageable.
Did not accept that relapse was an inevitable occurrence.
Did not believe that I could quit only one day at a time (if there was an addictive side to me, I imagine it would love to hear, "I'm just not going to drink today." Its imagined response? "Fine. I'll be back tomorrow."

Through much research, I found Rational Recovery (both the book and the program) and it resonated with me.
I quit and never looked back.
No discomfort. No white knuckle, lip-biting experiences.
Just stopped. February 6, 2006.
Walked away.
No problem.
This told me I was abusing it but not addicted to it.
Sometimes - sometimes - as Rational Recovery puts it, it's simply "Stupid behavior in a non-stupid person."

My story. My solution. I'm not recovering. I recovered.
Others must take the path that resonates and works for them.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/27/10 03:39 AM
Interesting, I've never heard of the recovery program you mentioned. I'll check it out for interest. I never went the AA route either, it just didn't click with me. I understand that when alcohol has been your life you may need something else to substitute in a more positive manner. AA provides incredible support and companionship for people in recovery but I just wanted that part of my life over. Hanging out with other recovering and former drunks every night of the week wasn't my choice and the religion thing didn't fly with me at the time. I chose a rehab program and an aftercare group there which met once per week.
Thanks for sharing Gardener, I'm glad you found something that worked for you too.
Posted By: Reincarnated Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/27/10 03:52 AM
Quote:
Rational Recovery puts it, it's simply "Stupid behavior in a non-stupid person."

And this is what we had hoped our WAS's would come to realize.

It doesn't for everyone.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/27/10 04:07 AM
Donna,
Originally Posted By: Donna...Found
Quote:
Rational Recovery puts it, it's simply "Stupid behavior in a non-stupid person."

And this is what we had hoped our WAS's would come to realize.
You know, you're right.
Perfectly applicable there, too.
Oh, well.....
Posted By: job Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/27/10 11:21 AM
After you have met your appointments today, take that drive and do something totally different. It's time now to make new memories and forge ahead.

Many of us have been right where you are today. Memories of special dates, holidays, etc. rear their ugly heads and remind us of what was. In time, those special dates will become less painful to you.

Time, my friend, is on your side. Healing will come for you at its own pace.
Posted By: Mrs. A Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/27/10 02:01 PM
Hi Gardener,

Sending really warm thoughts your way today.

All the best,
Mrs. A
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/27/10 02:03 PM
So something really good for yourself today, gardener. Something fun, something that will make a good memory. Take little gardener along.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/27/10 02:58 PM
Thank you, Mrs. A.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/27/10 02:59 PM
hm, thanks.
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
Take little gardener along.
I like that. grinHe's coming; he's always up for some fun! laugh
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/27/10 07:13 PM
G, I know how painful these reminders can be. Mine was in May which I was dreading for days but guess what? I forgot all about it on that day due to a new legal bomb she'd lobbed on me at the time. When I did remember it was a day or so later and just a grim reminder of how different things are now. We must acknowledge and adapt to the change and go on about our daily routines.

The thing to remember is that you didn't walk away from your committment you made to her on this day, she did. So let this day be about taking comfort knowing you represent integrity.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/28/10 03:22 AM
Thanks, Romeo.
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/28/10 03:27 AM
I hope your day went well in spite of its significance and memories, Gardener. I really had no idea how to handle my anniversary last month until stbx proposed his idea- I'm sure next year will be totally different. Next year will be easier for you, and the year after that, etc., I'm sure of that.

Hugs, Bunny
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/28/10 04:06 AM
Yesterday's post regarding today's anniversary sounded sad, now that I reread it. It wasn't. I wasn't. Just a bit wistful. Actually, no, not wistful: just pensive without the sadness.

Gardener's would-have-been 18th wedding anniversary today was a wonderful day!

Was going to head north to the mountains, hiking, but wasn't really in the mood for that.

As I posted to Mrs. A a few days ago, when I'm feeling particularly pensive, I need the ocean. So down I went to Southern Long Island to Robert Moses State Park next to the Fire Island National Seashore Preserve to soak up the Atlantic. Left at about 12:30 which meant no traffic.

Sometimes there's nothing like immersing all my senses in the expanse of ocean, sand, sky and horizon. The sounds, sights, smells, the feel of heat, sun, sand and cold ocean on the skin. Even the occasional, accidental taste of the salt water.
And all at an uncrowded beach.

I relaxed. Deeply. Meditated for well over an hour. Then walked about 3 miles to the deserted, no-swimming, natural, dunes part of the shore and sat inches from the water for about an hour. No one in sight at all. Wonderful.

And this may sound weird but then I let her have it. Out loud. Loud out load. My shouted words swallowed up by the roaring surf as I blasted her for every broken promise, commitment and, vow, for leading me on for months, for conspiring with the MC against me, for deceit, deception, taking advantage of my pain and good nature for her own gain, for vile, false allegations, for turning my stepchildren from me and on and on..
For. Every. Thing.

I had thought I finally reached the anger stage a couple of months back but this, this outpouring was visceral and cathartic.

Then I drove over to another nearby beach, Jones Beach State Park (N.Y.'s Riviera) where it is populated, crowded, miles of boardwalk, couple of restaurants, etc. Had myself one fine dinner.

And...I'm okay alone. I'm okay living alone. I'm okay with being single.
I'm okay.

Early on, I couldn't even imagine myself saying those words again someday.

Got home at 11:00.

Great day. Just a a great day.
Tomorrow's 19th anniversary of our first meeting will be a good day, too.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/28/10 10:54 AM
that sounds wonderful. perfect. you're more than ok. you're thriving!
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/29/10 11:27 PM
Nice Gardener. Very nice. I spent my 14th anniversary with a very attractive friend in Chicago -- a Cubs game.

When I feel the need to get away -- Chicago is my choice. I love to get lost in its energy.

We are different people with the same goal.

I'm glad you're doing well.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/30/10 12:08 AM
Thanks, CTH.
I love Chicago. StepD moved there in '03 and for a NYC born and raised BIC (Bronx Irish Catholic) I love Chicago, and still do. Was last there in late October.

I sure could use a "(very attractive) friend."

How to start over completely from scratch @ 56? (57 in three weeks.)
Where? How?

Oh, well. It will happen; it will make itself known
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/30/10 03:43 AM
G, it'll happen. 57 is the new 47 and from your looks you don't look a day older than 50. Have you tried Match.com or eHarmony.com? You should when you're ready!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/30/10 04:12 AM
SR,
Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo
...and from your looks you don't look a day older than 50.
Oh, you, sir are my new favorite friend! laugh
Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo
Have you tried Match.com or eHarmony.com? You should when you're ready!
I don't know. I don't think so. I'm not looking for that one special person.
Been there. Done that. Got the "Discarded" tee-shirt. wink
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/30/10 04:24 AM
You know G...it's amazing what you can learn from a 5yo and what mine has taught me is that persistence pays off. You fall, you get up again and try harder...keep at it and it'll happen whatever it is.

You may have gotten discarded by one person out of a million but who cares? and we all know that that one person wasn't the smartest or the most trustworthy either.

Maybe you don't have to look for that one special person...I don't think they charge extra if you have 2 or 3 grin
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/30/10 04:33 AM
Romeo,
Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo
...Maybe you don't have to look for that one special person...I don't think they charge extra if you have 2 or 3 grin
Now that...that's more like it! wink cool
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 06/30/10 11:09 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Thanks, CTH.
I love Chicago. StepD moved there in '03 and for a NYC born and raised BIC (Bronx Irish Catholic) I love Chicago, and still do. Was last there in late October.

I sure could use a "(very attractive) friend."

How to start over completely from scratch @ 56? (57 in three weeks.)
Where? How?

Oh, well. It will happen; it will make itself known


I know what you mean. I started over at 33; it was no picnic, but it was nothing like this (at 52 when all this began). All I can say is...one breath at a time.
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/01/10 10:15 PM
Somehow STBXW at 38 doesn't share the same mindset. To her things will be great for her...
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/02/10 01:19 AM
they always seem to think that way. it's part of the "syndrome."
Posted By: Mrs. A Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/02/10 01:52 AM
Gardener, you're a poet - and I know YOU know you have a lot of fans on here. We think you're awesome!

I'm glad the water did what it was supposed to do.

My very best wishes as always,
Mrs. A
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/02/10 05:21 AM
Mrs. A.,
How sweet and kind.
That meant a lot.
All the best.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/02/10 10:05 PM
Tonight.
Gardener.
Blind date.
Go figure.
What the hell.
Later. cool
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/02/10 10:15 PM
Nice. I'll be waiting to hear how it goes. Who set you up?
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/02/10 10:15 PM
OMG, don't go in blind...open your eyes, especially if you're driving to meet her. I'll be sitting on my couch tonight, watching football and rooting for you...well, I probably won't give you a second thought, after all it is football, but may the force be with you!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/03/10 08:08 PM
Full disclosure:
Set up by the owner of a tavern where the non-drinking gardener goes to dinner a lot & for music. One of the best local live-music venues in the area.
She said, "I have a nice woman for you. Would you like to meet her?"
I sad, "Sure. Tell you what: give her this extra concert ticket I have for the day after tomorrow." No pressure, no agenda. Venue was only about 45 minutes away.
Next day: "You're all set. I gave her the ticket. She's interested and excited. Will meet you there tomorrow."

She never showed.

But, hey, it was a Mary Chapin Carpenter concert and Gardener was in heaven, nonetheless. 4th row, dead center! When she chatted with the audience, the microphone blocked most of her face, that's how close it was.

And none of her sad, gut wrenching (though beautiful) songs. Just happy songs and sh!t-kicking clap and stomp till it hurts, sing and shout till I was hoarse songs.

I had a blast.

A bit disappointed, honestly. But, hey: nothing ventured, nothing gained. Took a chance.

Had fun anyway.

Like I said last week: I'm okay. I'm okay alone. I'm okay living lone. I'm okay being single.

And for me, my friends, that is serious progress - a new plateau.

A phrase I've used before, jokingly, came to mind a few times last night: "Your loss, toots."

Only kidding. No regrets. Whoever she is, she's human and has a life and any number of things, feelings, etc., could have gotten in the way/conspired to keep her from rolling that dice and taking a chance.

And that's fine.

Peace,
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/03/10 08:52 PM
Quote:
Mary Chapin Carpenter


I saw her in Cherry Hill, NJ about 8 or so years ago. Steve Earl opened for her (just Steve and his guitar, no band).

I became a die-hard Steve Earl fan after that.
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/03/10 08:55 PM
Quote:
Only kidding. No regrets. Whoever she is, she's human and has a life and any number of things, feelings, etc., could have gotten in the way/conspired to keep her from rolling that dice and taking a chance.

And that's fine.

Peace,



I'm going to save you a lot of money now: meet them for coffee or frozen yogurt or something when you first are meeting them (especially blind like this).

Most it costs you that way is 8 bucks.

If you're getting a good vibe, ask for their phone number. If they don't give it to you, move on. I just saved you some time too.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/03/10 09:19 PM
Gardener, you are my hero.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/04/10 02:29 AM
Glad you had a good time! I hope one day to be where you are smile
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/04/10 03:19 AM
sounds like a great evening, gardener! too bad it didn't work out as planned, but sounds like it may have been for the best anyway. so happy you enjoyed the concert.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/04/10 05:56 AM
hm,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
I know what you mean. I started over at 33; it was no picnic, but it was nothing like this (at 52 when all this began). All I can say is...one breath at a time.
Thanks. Boy, do I know that feeling. I started over @ 38. Love of my life. Her and her children were a mid-life gift from above. 16 great years.

And, ultimately, she had to - had to - run away. Snodderly (and others) confirmed my gut instincts.

I'll start over again. But nothing exclusive. Not for me. She ran, ended it legally (and emotionally, etc.,) but I had my one-in-a-million wife. In my heart of hearts (if no longer in my life-of-lives), I had my one true wife.

I vowed to love, honor, cherish her and love her children as my own.

I did not break my vows: I love (agape) her as a person, cherish who she once was - but is no more - and I still, and always will, love her children as my own.

So I have broken no vows (nor in the above sense, will I - could I).

But there will be no other wife. Ever. She was it. I'm thankful for that which was.

What it was is irreplaceable in my soul. So I'll not try to replace it. It was, fortunately, for seventeen years.

And it was, unfortunately, only for seventeen years.

But it was. Not many people have that even once in a lifetime.
I did.

I will not attempt to replace that which - despite all that transpired in the last 20 months - I had.
And will never have - nor need, nor want - again.
I truly lucked out once.
That's over, but that was enough. That was it.

I cannot wish ill upon someone I loved so deeply for so long.

And just as that piece of paper in 1992 simply confirmed a marriage that had already taken place in the deepest sense, the subsequent piece of paper in February of this year did not - could not - negate that marriage that had taken place.

She is gone. It is "over". But there will be no other. There can be no other.
Philosophical - and repetitive - tonight, I know.

But true.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/04/10 06:01 AM
And, Goddammit, I still miss so much who she once was.
Posted By: job Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/04/10 12:10 PM
G,
In your heart of hearts, she is the one true love of your life. Take the good memories and store them away in your heart and know that you can pull them out whenever you need them to help you along the way.

My friend, God has a special plan for you. We don't know what it is at this time, but when he's ready, he will reveal all to you. You must have faith and hope that the future will be bright once again.

If you have ever noticed, God has a way of tearing things down/apart and rebuilding them into something more beautiful and stronger than before.

I hope that you will have a nice 4th of July. Please do not sit at home alone...get out there and do something w/your family and/or friends.
Posted By: NoCodeBlues Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/04/10 12:57 PM
G,

I so very much know where you're coming from. I have felt all the same gamut of feelings regarding my M, and who my xW was, for 16 years. I was the luckiest man on earth, or so it seemed.

I don't think I can reconcile the person now with the woman I married, not entirely.

And I too have about come to the conclusion that I don't think it likely I will find another life partner. I feel a strong intuition that I gave my best effort and gave my whole heart to one person, and because of that I won't really be able to top that. I take M too seriously, I guess, especially now.

But never say never. Especially about M.

Hope you have a great day today!
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/04/10 02:00 PM
What a blessing to be able to be able to say you loved, and were loved, completely.

I hope to be able to say that someday.
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/04/10 06:09 PM
G, thanks for sharing the wisdom. Something clicked as I read:


She is gone. It is "over". But there will be no other. There can be no other.


It's painful to understand the meaning of these words but they might be true for me too.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/04/10 07:46 PM
Thank you, snodderly...
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/04/10 07:49 PM
Thank you, NCB, hm, Romeo.
Well, since I'm independent, I'm off to celebrate Independence Day. cool
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/04/10 08:43 PM
But, before I go, gotta post this for giggles.
A very eclectic, humorous and talented singer opened up for Mary Chapin Carpenter: Susan Werner. She was great.

She sang a funny, poignant song about being single: Time Between Trains.
The long "time between trains" being a euphemism for, well... wink crazy grin cool

TIME BETWEEN TRAINS

I'm waitin' at the station
I can choose my destination
I'm a free soul, I got no chains
But it's a long time between trains

I took a long nap, I read a whole book
I got nice legs, I got decent looks
And I'm not one who complains
But it's a long time between trains

And who'd have thought it all those years
That I would find myself back here
Feelin' restless and ignored
Starin' at the schedule board
Wonderin' why the fates above
Always route love through Miami

And somewhere lovers smile their smiles
While I count the ceiling tiles
And well give or take a few
There's one thousand fifty-two
But that depends if you include
The eighty-eight out in the hall

Yes I'm waitin' at the station
With my old friend sublimation
You know the Wright boys designed planes

Must have been a long time, yeah
Must have been a long time
Must have been a long time between trains

www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3PTRvyJv7Q

Enjoy!
Or wince! laugh
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/05/10 01:46 AM
Originally Posted By: TimeHeals
[ Steve Earl opened for her (just Steve and his guitar, no band).

I became a die-hard Steve Earl fan after that.


I've been a Steve Earle fan since the middle 80's. He's good stuff. Had bad problems with drugs, but was still very talented and creative, even during that bad time. He is one of my favorites.

Gardener, you've read The Four Agreements, and you know not to take anything personally. Greek has a signature line that says "be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." Everyone has, in their own life, their share of sorrow and suffering.
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/05/10 03:05 AM
Quote:
I've been a Steve Earle fan since the middle 80's. He's good stuff. Had bad problems with drugs, but was still very talented and creative, even during that bad time. He is one of my favorites.


Yep, and the little talks he gives between songs are either hysterically funny or really make you think.

He's on wife number 7. Alison Moorer is her name. Talented lady.

About his first wife:

"She could match me hit for hit and drink for drink, and she could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch, and I was only 25, so how was I supposed to know that wasn't love?".

Last time I saw him was in Philly on "The Revolution Starts Now" tour.

He gave a free concert here in Memphis not too long ago, but I missed it frown
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/08/10 04:07 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Thank you, NCB, hm, Romeo.
Well, since I'm independent, I'm off to celebrate Independence Day. cool


G, you still out there celebrating Independance Day? smile
Posted By: g450 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/11/10 09:27 AM
Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo
G, thanks for sharing the wisdom. Something clicked as I read:


She is gone. It is "over". But there will be no other. There can be no other.


It's painful to understand the meaning of these words but they might be true for me too.


Damn you G! This tore me up when I read it as well.

I will always feel this way as well. But I try to cherrish the 23 years we had. They were the best years of my life.

I understand EXACLTY how you feel brother.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/11/10 09:12 PM
What I recognize from what Gardener wrote is that, in my case, there can be no "other" because I can never repeat what I had with my wife. I will never again be a young man with 2/3 of my life ahead of me. I will never raise children with someone else, all those times are ours and I can never repeat them with someone else. Yes, someone else may come along but our R and experiences will be much different. I guess that's neither good nor bad, it just is.
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/12/10 03:34 PM
Well for me when I think about the next R, I know I won't be as trusting as I was of my STBXW. So there's a big difference right there...I probably won't have anymore kids either. So it probably won't be as deep a R as the one with my STBXW. Of course, a lot depends on the woman and how she makes me feel.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/12/10 06:27 PM
This is something I'm struggling with too. STBXW is in most of my memories of my 20s and all of my 30s. I'm not too old to have kids again -- although I'd have to have to reverse a vasectomy to do it.

Still, for better or worse STBXW will be the defining relationship of my life. And much of it was unhappy. That's a tough realization.

Still, this is my life today, it doesn't have to be and won't be my life forever. Some day someone great will come along and when that happens that will be my life then. I just can't let this past relationship ruin my future ones.
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/14/10 03:41 AM
Gardener, we miss you. Hope everything's going well with you!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/15/10 01:57 AM
Hi, Romeo. Hi, all.
I'm fine thanks.
Taking some time away from the boards but with so many Watched Users and Watched Topics on my list I have been following along many of your sitches.

I am settling into acceptance on so many levels. Doing some good work with the new IC I started with in...April (?) She really is wonderful, caring, and wise.

In addition to daily meditation, I occasionally will use the time awake, aware, eyes open holding an object that has recently caught my attention for whatever reason. At first I considered it pondering, but that's not the right word. Don't know what is. So for now, lets say I fully experience the object like a child or a visitor from space would. All five senses. New senses. It is a short period of awe, amazement and appreciation.

Last week, the object was half an oyster shell I picked up on the beach of Long Island Sound. Later that night I had the most wonderful time with its beauty, its is-ness.

And then I went deeper with it. It is hard. Shelled. To protect its very self: all that is so very soft, vital, tender and vulnerable within.

But to eat, to move forward, to grow it has to, it must open that shell ever so slightly, rawly exposing its self. Like us all.

And when pain comes in, the oyster cannot expel it.
So it coats it. And coats it.
Smoothing it, (while soothing itself) transforming its very nature completely with patience and with perseverance. With time.

A pearl. A pain deep within the most vulnerable self becomes something precious.

I pray for and send out blessings to all my friends and loved ones - and to my former spouse - (and to DBers) every night.

During the day, when a pain, a memory, the pang of loneliness or betrayal hit,
"blessings' and acceptance never completely did it for me. "Perhaps with time and repetition it will," I would rationalize as the pang remained, maybe lessened somewhat, but remained...and always deep in the pit of my stomach.

It sounds simplistic, but I know tell myself to, "Coat this," or "I will coat this with love," or acceptance, or whatever seems appropriate. And it feels better. This way feels better. A decision. An action. A healing. I will smoothen it, coat it, render it less painful, less an irritant.

Eventually its very nature will be transformed. It will become precious - and a lesson for another day.

I am also busy planning a barbecue this Sunday. It is the day after my birthday but that is coincidental.

My brother, his wife and sons. My Son, 32 - Son 34, in Colorado will be there in spirit - and four friends: one since kindergarten, one since high school, two going on twenty five years.

These people - and by extension, their spouses - were my support group. My lifeline, my shoulders to cry on, ears to whine (way too much) into.

And, I later realized upon reflection, these are the people in my life who have never, ever, let me down. How blessed am I? This party's for them!

Finally, I found someone this week: Artist Gardener. Rendering in pen and ink was my hobby and a source of income (specializing in home portraits) for years. I. Just. Stopped. Fifteen years ago.

So I took out six favorites, bought mattes and frames and hung them in my house. Got out the pens ink bottles, too. And I'm bringing that part of me back into my life.

So, I'm fine, following along, and here. Here where my sanity was saved.

And still (obviously) verbose grin

Peace,
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/15/10 02:01 AM
Sounds great Gardener, it sounds like you're practicing mindfulness. I'm glad you've returned to your pen and ink, I too began to sketch again after about 30 years. I've enjoyed the sketches I've done. I hope you feel the joy in your renewed interest!
Posted By: antlers Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/15/10 02:02 AM
Hi G. You sound well in your post. Sounds like you're enjoying some things that you let slip over the years. Good for you. I hope you continue to get stronger and better. Best wishes...antlers.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/15/10 02:24 AM
wonderful, gardener.
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/15/10 02:24 AM
G, it's so great to see you moving forward in life and keeping things in perspective and living in the now. Well done on picking up the pen too.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/18/10 02:27 AM
Journaling,

Worked all day.
Came home, went to get rental tables and chairs, etc., did last minute shopping, and set up most everything outside for tomorrow's "tribute party" for my dearest-friends-and-loved-ones-support-network.

The bad news is that today is the first birthday of my life that I spent alone.

The good news is that I'm 57 years old and today is the first birthday of my life that I've ever spent alone. grin

It was fine.

I will catch up with you all tomorrow or, due to the party, probably Monday.

Peace,
Posted By: courageous wife Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/18/10 02:29 AM
Happy Birthday Gardner!!!
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/18/10 02:36 AM
Happy birthday Gardener!! I haven't posted much lately, but I am following along with your thread.
Posted By: kat727 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/18/10 02:45 AM
Have an awesome birthday!!

kat
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/18/10 02:46 AM
Thank you, cw.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/18/10 02:47 AM
gima,
My first true DB friend!
Thank you.
Been following your few postings, too, you "catch," you!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/18/10 02:48 AM
Thank you, kat.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/18/10 02:49 AM
Happy birthday, Gardener. Have a Root Beer float to celebrate!
Posted By: SpyBunny Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/19/10 12:39 AM
Happy birthday! (I'm late with this- I'm sorry) Hope you had a blast at your party today- you deserve it!

Hugs, and many more Happy Birthdays to come!
Bunny
Posted By: Reincarnated Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/19/10 12:43 AM
Hope you had a happy birthday, and that your party is wonderful!
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/19/10 01:48 AM
Party on, Gardener!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/19/10 03:02 AM
Thank you all.
The party was wonderful. At the end of the meal, I made a short speech pretty much along the lines of what I posted the other night:

That they were all here because they are the people - or the significant others of the people - who selflessly helped me keep my sanity these past many months. They listened, always, intently, and empathetically whenever I called. And their calls to me were often so wonderfully timed just when I needed them most.

That they were also here because it dawned on me that they are THE people in my life who have never, ever let me down. and since I've never been much of an entertainer/party-thrower, I thought it was high time that the most cherished people in my life met - or re-met - the most cherished people in my life.

And I almost made it through that dry-eyed. Almost. cry

It was wonderful. Everyone had a great time of fun, conversation, music. volleyball and good food. Son, 31 sent me away from the grills, saying, "Go sit and enjoy your friends; I got this." And he did all the cooking for 16 people.

It was a day of love all around.

And I still have so much catching up to do with you all. And I will.
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/19/10 06:12 AM
Happy Birthday Gardener!!

Sounds like you had a great time with friends and S31- nice speech too! smile
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/19/10 11:25 AM
That sounds like such a wonderful celebration of you, of friends, of love! You raised a good son. I'm so happy you had this day and this exchange of appreciation and gratitude!!
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/19/10 01:55 PM
...any naked volleyball?
Posted By: poet Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/20/10 06:48 PM
Hi honey. Mmmmwhaaaa!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/21/10 04:40 AM
Romeo, Thank you.
Hoosiermama: Great day and, yes, a very good son. Thank you.
whatisis: What a mind! wink
poet: How are you?! I'll stop in soon.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/23/10 02:31 AM
Journaling,
Went to Court for Modification today. Haven't seen my former spouse since her "let's be friends" overture in March six weeks after D when I told her "You ended and shattered our friendship repeatedly in the last year. Friends don't do the things you've done. I do not want to be your friend."(short version.)

Well she was chatty! I was polite and pleasant, but she kept going on and on with courtroom observations and anecdotes, etc. After a long wait for things to start, we were called first and were done literally within 90 seconds.

She was supposed to bring me something today. Left it in her car. "I'm in lot B, you have to pas it on your way out so stop and give it to me there," says I.
"No, walk me to my car, it's not far."
Okay.
She chats the whole two blocks. About everything.
We get to her car, she hands me the something, holds onto it and to my hand for a good 2 - 3 seconds as I kept a mild taking it/pulling my hand away tension, looks me straight in the eyes and, smiling, says, "It was really good chatting with you, today, Gardener."
I replied, "Goodbye. Be good to yourself, J."

Go friggin' figure.

I don't make assumptions anymore, but the first thought that came to me as I cheerfully, detachedly walked away was, "Be careful what you wish for..."

And tonight, I took my first one-hour yoga class at my gym. What an experience! I exercise almost every day, meditate every night.

But yoga tonight was like the blending, the melding of the two: the breath control, the muscle exertion and correct form, the concentration, the mindfulness.
It was absolutely wonderful!
I'm hooked.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/23/10 02:39 AM
Wow, four months since you've seen her. That must be nice.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/23/10 02:41 AM
CTH,
Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope
Wow, four months since you've seen her. That must be nice.
It has been nice!
Posted By: Golfgirl1 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/23/10 02:42 AM
Yay for yoga! It's a beautiful practice, isn't it? smile

Yes, be careful what you wish for, but wish for what you want!
You sound so good, keep moving forward.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/23/10 02:48 AM
Thanks, Gg1,
Hey, you got a home or are you just a drive-by? wink
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/23/10 02:58 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
CTH,
Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope
Wow, four months since you've seen her. That must be nice.
It has been nice!
Correction: saw her in mediator's office for about twenty minutes and in court for about five minutes a few weeks back.
Basically same difference, though. No real contact, thankfully.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/24/10 08:49 PM
Gardener, how's the Yoga coming? What kind of meditation do you do?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/24/10 11:03 PM
wii,
Went to yoga only twice but absolutely love it. There are so many different kinds of yoga yet I have no idea what kind this is. It's free with my gym membership, is rather fast-paced (posture after posture after posture) yet I love it. The teacher's Namaste/winding down talk at the end which, though only a minute or so long, she repeats word for word a second time when she's finished is so affirming and uplifting. I've exercised for years. Stretched for years (The Whartons' Method). Meditated for years. This just seems to bring them all together. And has made me aware that though my arms, legs, shoulders, back, chest, etc., are flexible and strong, my core (abs, hips, lower back) are not.

Okay, meditation: While I am a religious man, I have practiced a non-religious/non-spiritual method of meditation known as The Silva Method (www.silvalifesystem.com) for over twenty years. Like most, they started small, simply, with something that worked, but have since become an industry, a Brand. They espouse E.S.P., intuition, and manifestation along with their simple mind/body control, mind/body quieting system known as The Centering Exercise.

They were one of the first (pre-E.E.G., I believe) to differentiate - and tap into - the electrical vibrations and pulses of brainwaves in different states (Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta, etc.).

I have used The Centering Exercise for years on an old, almost worn-out cassette tape. It takes about twenty-five minutes. Though with practice and repetition (and I've had much), one can invoke these states and results instantly with a word ("relax") or a number ("one," "two," "three").

I am just now beginning to look into their Manifestation exercises. You can download The Centering Exercise for free from their website, which I recently did if only to hear a different voice than the one I've been hearing on my audiocassette for years. They will, however, bomb you with spammail (some of which is good, free reading) once you do so.

Another recent addition has been that of Dr. Jeffrey Thompson's CDs (www.neuroacoustic.com). Same theory of different electrical brainwave pulses/cycles but acoustically induced/enhanced. I came across him and one of his "passive" Cds, Healing Mind System 2.0 last year about four months into my sitch. It's passive in that you do nothing: just put it on in the background.

All I can tell you is that within 10 days or so, something...happened. My mind slowed. Became more peaceful. The "chatter" slowed.

I've since bought several of his more "active" CDs to be used during mindful meditation. All different. All tappimg into/inducing different levels and results.

All good. All meditation is a journey, even if just one into still-ness.

There ya go, wii: you asked two simple questions and, not surprisingly, got two Gardener verbose diatribes! grin
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/24/10 11:51 PM
"Keep telling yourself that you can heal from this.
You are a good person.

No one deserves to be abandoned.
Nothing you did warranted this kind of
treatment from the woman who promised
to love you.

The issue is within your wife.
It is a flaw in her that has caused
her to walk out on you.
You do deserve better treatment.

It is better to be alone and happy
than to be with someone who
would choose to leave you."

Susan J. Anderson
The Journey From Abandonment To Healing.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/24/10 11:57 PM
Amen Brother (proof I AM watching!)
Posted By: CityGirl Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/25/10 01:19 AM
Hi Gardener!

Isn't yoga grand?! I practice an hour of yoga (morning) and an hour of Pilate's (evening) each day, seven days a week. You will be AMAZED at how quick you gain massive amounts of core strength.

When I first started practicing my core was *so* weak it wasn't even funny. Especially with Pilate's I thought I would throw up my core was burning so bad! I bet in a few weeks time your core will strengthen more than you ever thought possible.

Keep us posted!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/25/10 02:21 AM
gima,
Originally Posted By: givingitmyall
Amen Brother (proof I AM watching!)
Proof is never needed when one has faith.
Thanks, brother.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/25/10 02:27 AM
Thanks, CityGirl.
I will keep you posted.
Do you do Mat Pilates or one of their machine thingies?
Really wanted to go to third yoga this morning @ 11:00, but had a house showing I had to get ready for.
Why is it that though I keep this place almost Felix Unger-ish, immaculately ready for showings, whenever broker calls with a, "showing tomorrow at (whatever) o'clock," it still takes 4-5 hours of spit 'n polish, white-glove prep?
I'm exhausted.
Someone buy this place, already (and former spouse and I dropped the price another $21k on Thursday)!
Posted By: CityGirl Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/25/10 02:31 AM
I do Mat Pilate's but use a rolled up hand towel for extra resistance (or you could use the bands).

You will have rock star abs soon! smile

Good luck on the open house!

Peace and love to you!
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/25/10 02:52 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
wii,

There ya go, wii: you asked two simple questions and, not surprisingly, got two Gardener verbose diatribes! grin


Hey, no problem! I appreciate the thought you put into your replies, they are extremely helpful and always introduce me to new ideas and practices I wasn't aware of. Thanks.
Now, your Yoga is most likely Hatha, that's the basic stuff but it could be Ashtanga if it's fast paced from position to position. Ashtanga, if I recall, is more for strengthening. Anyway, I'm also reading an book you might be interested in "How God Changes Your Brain" by Andrew Newberg and Mark Robert Waldman, check it out on Amazon or another book site. It's about how meditating and prayer change your brain and other good stuff!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/25/10 03:32 AM
wii,
Originally Posted By: whatisis
"How God Changes Your Brain" by Andrew Newberg and Mark Robert Waldman, check it out on Amazon or another book site. It's about how meditating and prayer change your brain and other good stuff!
Ah, another one to add to the ever-growing reading list. I'll check it out for sure.
I have a list (forget where I got it from) that I read quickly before any heavy meditating: it states that meditation has been chemically proven to:
Increase GABA, DHEA, Melatonin, Seratonin, Endorphins, HGH
Decrease Cortisol
And improve PH Balance.
The brain, our mind - and our very real control over them - is an absolutely amazing subject.
Peace,
Posted By: Golfgirl1 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/25/10 03:33 AM
Hey Gardener,
Yes, I have a home, but I wrote about the good things I've found in the past year and no one responded, so I don't check very often; I guess you could say I'm a "drive by." wink

I'm a bona fide "gym rat" and was a fitness instructor for 20 years. I still love the weights, but have recently begun training on the pilates reformer and I just love it. But, then....I love anything active.

Your posts are always so positive and inspirational, thank you! I love stopping by and catching some wisdom. Next up for me will be the meditation stuff...I could use it to slow my energy down in the evening.

My life is crazy-busy and so full with new friends and new adventures; I'm truly in a good space. I just had to let go to get here and believe in all the good that will happen if we allow it.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/25/10 03:58 AM
Gg1,
Well, where is your home? And if I was ever one who read your good things without responding, I apologize. So many threads and so little time. Still, no excuse.

Dumbells were always my passion rather than barbells: they keep so many muscles firing for balance individually. Especially when you do as many exercises (as I did) while standing on one leg. For years, I owned something called The Power Block: kind of a square-framed, center-handled dumbell-within-a-dumbell-within-a-dumbell, etc. that you could use to pick up 5 lbs. Or move the pin and out would come 10 lbs., or 15, 20, etc. I loved it.

Alas, I sold it on craigslist recently in my de-stuffifying purge. Also sold my inversion table (which was SO good for my back - and for the lymphatic system, too). I'm now trying to sell my ParaBody CM3 gym with no takers so far.

That's okay, though. I find I'm more inclined to exercise when I have to get off my duff and go somewhere (fortunately 1/4 mile away) than I am when it's all right downstairs.

Also, it allows me to mingle a bit with people, do yoga, and they have a sauna, hot tub & pool!

That's all goodness since the sitch and the last twenty months have me so out of shape!
Posted By: Golfgirl1 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/25/10 01:45 PM
Hey Gardener,
My home is in Erie, Colorado (east of Boulder, south of Longmont). I just moved here 2 months ago from the "marital home" and I love it. My BFF (found in my support group) lives up here and we get in all kinds of trouble.:)
I love the mountains (hiking, biking, skiing, etc.)

Interesting workout with the dumbells; not sure I've heard of it, but I do train MANY different ways with balance. Oddly enough, as soon as I could "post-bomb" I amped up my training and had hoped to do a triathlon at the end of August. I'm still undecided, but I would say I'm probably really close to being in the best shape of my life at 48. So, a "deal breaker" for me are these 50-ish guys who don't work out anymore. I keep thinking maybe that sounds superficial, but I have to be my authentic self, ya know? My ex was a Navy Seal and then I watched him get more into work and less into working out and it became a problem.

I'm heading to a spin class in a few minutes and then yoga later this afternoon. Of course (hence, my name) I will have to hit a few golf balls today as well. smile

Heading to DC tomorrow to meet with Colorado legislators about public education (I'm a teacher).

Anyway, I'll check back in later; it's great to find someone who's in the same place as me.
Posted By: Golfgirl1 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/25/10 01:48 PM
Oh, and I'm right there with you as well. Can't have a home gym because I would just use it as a drying rack for my clothes. I have to actually GO somewhere....
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/25/10 03:30 PM
Gg1,
Funny, I meant your home thread on DB. I found it and checked: I was your first response on July 2 when you moved over to Surviving. Just lost track, I guess.

By the way, I've been nosing around and I absolutely LOVED this:
Originally Posted By: Golfgirl1
What's wrong with sitting home alone?

You're only alone if you don't like the person you're with...think about it.

You must get to a place where you are okay with being alone before trying to enter into a relationship. Otherwise, you come across as "needy" and "desperate" and those are the exact kinds of men you will attract.

Remember, you don't attract what you want, you attract what you are. That might be hard to hear, but it's true.
And I love Colorado, too. Been visiting Boulder for seventeen years. First my StepD, now my son who lives in Nederland. I was last there in April for five days.

Moving after the house sells kept coming down to Colorado or Oregon. I love the mountains. Right now, Oregon's in the lead.

I played golf twice. The second time to make sure I really didn't like it laugh
Talk to you soon.
Peace,
Posted By: Golfgirl1 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/25/10 04:48 PM
Gardener,
Too funny....yes, I have a home thread somewhere around here, but I'm not too good at updating; I'll try and do better.

UGH! Sorry I missed you in April, but I was in no shape to meet anyone back then. That was my intense period of grief and finally letting go.

I have never been to Oregon (you do know it rains there, a lot). I can't go longer than 2 days without seeing the sun. But, I would love to visit there sometime. Traveling anywhere is another passion of mine and I've done 3 international volunteer vacations.

WHAT?? You can't just play golf twice and then quit. It's a game of patience (read, The Zen of Golf). You must be present to play the game.

Okay, back outside.....

Later, GG
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/27/10 12:42 AM
Gardener, I went out tonight and picked up some of Dr. Jeffrey Thompson's CD's. I bought Relax and Let Go (Alpha)from the Brainwave Symphony series and popped it into the car CD player on the way home (which apparently you're not supposed to do!) At first I didn't think anything about it, just continued on with the usual jibberish that occupies mine and most others brains but after about ten minutes I noticed that although I was alert to my driving and what was around me I had a very zoned out feeling, it was kind of neat. I also picked up the Delta Sleep System CD as my sleep has been a bit of an issue for the past year, we'll see how it goes! Thanks for the tip, if nothing else it will be nice relaxing music to listen to while I meditate.
Btw, I picked up the rest of the symphony series online at a used CD site for about 20 bucks inc. shipping, just in case I get bored with those Alpha waves!!!
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/27/10 02:15 AM
Wow, wii, you went all out!

Enjoy. You will notice changes - some subtle some dramatic. I never got the Sleep System because I seldom had sleep problems even at the worst times in my sitch.

What's the used cd website?

Peace,
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/27/10 02:17 AM
Quick journaling:
Great IC session today.
Went to second yoga class this evening. Absolutely wonderful. This is a life-changer, for sure.

Peace,
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/27/10 02:32 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener


What's the used cd website?

Peace,


Secondspin.com
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/27/10 02:45 AM
Thanks, wii.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/27/10 02:53 AM
Gg1,
Just re-read your post
Originally Posted By: Golfgirl1
My home is in Erie, Colorado (east of Boulder, south of Longmont).
I know Longmont, too. My son lived there as well for a while.
Originally Posted By: Golfgirl1
... So, a "deal breaker" for me are these 50-ish guys who don't work out anymore. I keep thinking maybe that sounds superficial, but I have to be my authentic self, ya know?
Change "guys" to "women" and I'm with you 100% on this. It's not superficial, it is being authentic and it's also a large part of compatibility of lifestyles.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/27/10 01:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Thanks, wii.


All the brainwave symphony selections, except Alpha, are now gone thanks to me but there are about 12 others of his works you can peruse. Hey, it's 20% off with a $20 purchase this month! Secondspin is pretty reliable and I've always had good experiences with them despite the distance! Once I thought I'd lost all my Christian CD's and I ordered about 20 replacements and then found them under my car seat. I emailed secondspin and they said "no problem" just return them, which I did. They refunded the full price and the original shipping charges which I did not expect. I was quite pleased.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/27/10 01:43 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Wow, wii, you went all out!

Enjoy. You will notice changes - some subtle some dramatic. I never got the Sleep System because I seldom had sleep problems even at the worst times in my sitch.

Peace,


In addition to my above post, I just thought I'd mention that I used the sleep system last night and had two nightmares! Finally, at 4:00 am I turned it off! My head isn't used to hearing weird sounds, outside of the sirens of emergency vehicles, at night. Some of those CD sounds are creepy in the middle of the night. Maybe I should listen to it outside of sleep times to get my mind used to the various sounds. I once used another CD for sleep and had the same situation, weird noises that freaked me out while sleeping. I'llplay with it a bit and see how it goes.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/27/10 02:16 PM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
Quick journaling:
Great IC session today.
Went to second yoga class this evening. Absolutely wonderful. This is a life-changer, for sure.

Peace,

great on both counts!
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/28/10 05:27 PM
Gardener, just thought you might be interested. If you go to Soundstrue.com you can download Dr. Thompson's CD's and many many more selections at a reduced price. You can also purchase hard copies at a higher price, if preferred.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/29/10 01:42 AM
Quick Journaling,
Third yoga class tonight. This teacher practices Anusara Yoga: "a relatively new form of yoga (1997), which pairs strict principles of alignment with a playful spirit. Postures can be challenging, but the real message of Anusara is to open your heart and strive to connect with the divine in yourself and others."
My favorite so far. I'll have to find out what kind the other two teachers practice.

Still reading - working - Susan Anderson's The Journey From Abandonment to Healing. As you know from my frequent quoting of it it, I can't recommend it enough.

Watching in the background Paul McCartney's Mets/CitiField Concert from last year. Why is it that women can pretty much dye their hair any color, but for men the only option is orange?! And knowing that, why do so many men do it anyway?!

Dunno. Just wondering. Then again, I had no problem going from red to gray to white, just as long as I didn't lose any of it. cool

Peace,
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/29/10 02:15 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener


Why is it that women can pretty much dye their hair any color, but for men the only option is orange?! And knowing that, why do so many men do it anyway?!

Peace,



Nobody can say you don't ask the tough questions, Gardener!
Btw, I've never heard of Anusara Yoga and judging from the first four letters of it's name I probably don't want to go there either. wink
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/29/10 07:43 PM
Gg1
You in the .alt?
Posted By: Golfgirl1 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/30/10 01:19 PM
Hi G,

Just back from DC and lobbying with legislators for my students. Got to go sailing on the Chesapeake Bay and eat Maryland crabs...fun!

I've read that book by Susan Anderson and many, many more. One of my favorites was "Spiritual Divorce." I always want to know in my heart I tried everything to save my marriage and then left it with class, dignity, and love.

Thank you for allowing me to say what I need to say and not feel judged. I'm not trying to be superficial at all, but an active lifestyle is one I must have in a partner. I've joined several meetup.com hiking groups and the people I've met there have been incredibly fit...yikes! smile I love it! I would think those yoga classes might have some reasonably fit 50-something women in them, no?? It's a challenge.

BTW, lucky you for not having sleep issues. For a few months last year I was sleeping only 1-3 hours a night. frown Luckily, that has greatly improved. Not back to normal yet, but getting there.
Posted By: Golfgirl1 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/30/10 01:20 PM
Yes, in the alt. You?
Posted By: Golfgirl1 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/30/10 01:24 PM
Just posted on the DB site; I'm the 3rd comment under the current statement by Michele. XH and I actually went to counseling with Michele, well only one time before I knew it was hopeless.
Posted By: Golfgirl1 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/30/10 01:44 PM
DB site on the alt
Posted By: ImprovedRomeo Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/30/10 04:08 PM
G is on the alt (same name too if I remember) along with several of us.

I too have sleep issues...thank God for inventing coffee lol
Posted By: Golfgirl1 Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/30/10 05:58 PM
IR,
Thanks....I will hunt you all down! smile
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/30/10 10:27 PM
Originally Posted By: Golfgirl1
IR,
Thanks....I will hunt you all down! smile

Gg,

Is there more than one DB site in the .alt? I can't find you.
I'm Gardener Man.
Gotta question.

Peace,
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/31/10 01:19 AM
Gardener, I love your photo on FB! Do you really have such a blank expression? grin
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/31/10 01:34 AM
wii,
Originally Posted By: whatisis
Gardener, I love your photo on FB! Do you really have such a blank expression? grin
Thanks. Better times. Taken at Gardener Blended Family Annual Seashore Vacation in '08, 10 weeks pre-bomb. Last one.
(I should put the whole photo up if I haven't already.)
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/31/10 01:55 AM
Originally Posted By: Gardener
wii,
Originally Posted By: whatisis
Gardener, I love your photo on FB! Do you really have such a blank expression? grin
Thanks. Better times. Taken at Gardener Blended Family Annual Seashore Vacation in '08, 10 weeks pre-bomb. Last one.
(I should put the whole photo up if I haven't already.)
y'know what, wii? I just did. Good memory. Also explains my smile.
Posted By: whatisis Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/31/10 02:25 AM
You do look a bit pale though, Gardener Man!
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 07/31/10 11:54 PM
Nice photo! I'm looking at it on an iPhone screen, tho, which is a bit of a challenge! Looking forward to once again having a working computer--and a regular screen. It's good to put faces with the history.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 08/04/10 02:41 PM
Gardener, hi, it's prairiegirl (changed my screen name). Hey I just saw a post on Awoken's new thread - can you go there - linked it below? It sounds like he's having a tough time and I bet he could use your help and perspective.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2050432#Post2050432

Thanks, PG.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 08/05/10 03:10 AM
FindingMyVoice and Sister,
I just posted on Kevin's thread and sent him a message in the .alt.
We exchanged phone numbers at a gig of his in NYC. Told him I'll call him tomorrow evening.
Thank you.
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 08/05/10 03:15 AM
Quick journal,

Had an uncharitable, though non-malicious thought about X today:

"I can't wait until you're still not happy.
Because it wasn't me."

Almost sounds like it belongs in a Country Western song, doesn't it? cool

Peace,
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 08/05/10 03:19 AM
Hey Gardener, glad to hear you were able to get a message to Awoken. How's life?
Posted By: Gardener Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 08/05/10 03:26 AM
Pairie Girl/FindingMyVoice,

Life continues to get better, thank you, despite dismal financial sitch that recently hit negative cash flow.

I'll get through it.

Adding yoga to my daily regimen of meditation and exercising has helped tremendously.

How've you been?

Peace,
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: Soaring Solo 2010 - 08/05/10 03:34 AM
Hey glad to hear it. Darn finances. But you're a bright guy - I know you'll find your way out of it soon. Daily yoga, meditation AND exercise! That's impressive - how on earth do you manage it every day. Every time I manage to get a week in with exercise every day, guaranteed I get sick soon after. Can't figure it out! Glad to hear that it's making a difference in your life.

Life's been pretty good on my end - thanks for asking - that's nice of you. Still making progress in M; we have our ups and downs. The downs really rattle me but I'm learning to not shut down or withdraw through them. Continuing to GAL - next stop, learning to cook! (All I can really cook right now is lasagna!) Wish me luck. smile
Posted By: Gardener