Hi All: I follow the path of Jeff223, DonH, ford, AV8R and others here at DB who tried valiantly to save their M's. The only difference is that....I filed. I was bombed in May '06; joined here July '06; fought hard for almost 2 years before filing in 12/07 for lack of trust and continued excursions outside of our marriage while we still lived under the same roof. Dealbreakers. Ironically, we still do. For only a few weeks more, I am married to a complete stranger..someone I don't know anymore.
This will be my last thread, and, I will now post in the divorced column. Thanks to all those here who have supported me for over 3 years. I hope to post only the factual experiences of the last few months (?weeks) of my marriage. I am not looking to be told how great a father I am..nor how great a husband I was or (ahem) am. I do not need to hear adjectives about my STBXW wife nor do I post things here to demonize her. It's simple:
And that's the way it is.
For thought:
But that is the beginning of a new story—the story of the gradual renewal of a man, the story of his gradual regeneration, of his passing from one world into another, of his initiation into a new unknown life. That might be the subject of a new story, but our present story is ended. –Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
Red: I find I’m so excited, I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it’s the excitement only a free man can feel, a free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend, and shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope.—The Shawshank Redemption
Lester Burnham: I had always heard your entire life flashes in front of your eyes the second before you die. First of all, that one second isn’t a second at all, it stretches on forever, like an ocean of time… For me, it was lying on my back at Boy Scout camp, watching falling stars… And yellow leaves, from the maple trees, that lined my street… Or my grandmother’s hands, and the way her skin seemed like paper… And the first time I saw my cousin Tony’s brand new Firebird… And Janie… And Janie… And… Carolyn. I guess I could be pretty pissed off about what happened to me… but it’s hard to stay mad, when there’s so much beauty in the world. Sometimes I feel like I’m seeing it all at once, and it’s too much, my heart fills up like a balloon that’s about to burst… And then I remember to relax, and stop trying to hold on to it, and then it flows through me like rain and I can’t feel anything but gratitude for every single moment of my stupid little life… You have no idea what I’m talking about, I’m sure. But don’t worry… you will someday.[i]—American Beauty (d. Mendes, 1999)
Blessings to all of you, especially to those who were able keep their families whole.
FIB
Strength....and honor.
Hey Frank,
I will take a Roy Rogers. Hope you have a good virtual supply of other liquor for the other folks in this forum.
My dad used to take me to Roy's and a place called Neba's.
Kerry...pass the horsey sauce.
FIB
FIB, my friend. I will not rehash all the things I know I have told you over the years. You know how I feel about you.
But I will say this, I am honored to know you. I am grateful that you have shown me that there are still men in this world with integrity, honor, and strength.
You will be ok, FIB. I know it. Your success is not measured by whether you saved you marriage, but, in how you walked this journey. You have done it well.
I wish for you peace. I wish you many wonderful, fun filled days with your children. I wish that you realize how special you are and that you matter.
See you on the flip side with donuts in hand.
I second BM's words, FIB!!!
You, and other men like you on these boards, have helped me immeasurably to remember that there are men out there who are not afraid to show their heart.
And, really......I'll go out on a limb and be honest here.....to know that there is a man of your heart and character
and you're a surgeon to boot!!..... Well, lets just say that it even makes a heathen like myself think that maybe there is a God out there somewhere!
Now if I can only find one of you on this side of the country!!!
((((((HUGS))))))
hey FIB, you've gone to great lenghts to try to save your M. Now this new journey is a new chance for you, to be happy and free.
Give me a Jack, or am I too late?
Dont have anything to add to what others already posted.
xxx
K
Thanks. Great women here too.
After being here for three years....listening to many great men and women here....reading many books...and having 1 or 2 professional 'male gurus', I believe in the following:
Not all marriages CAN or SHOULD be saved. No doubt tho' that ALL people should TRY. The length of time devoted to this varies and is dependent on the individual. This forum, like an isotope, has a rate of decay. It is strongest at the beginning and slowly but surely loses it's efficacy as time goes on. This forum potentially can cause great harm by drastically deviating from MIchelle's book by:
- condoning bad behavior in our WAS by not defining borders (one poster encouraged a woman to greet her husband in sexy clothes with a hot cooked meal and flirt with him after he was AWOL for 4+ days)
- suggesting you to be a loser if you file for divorce
- losing support if you DO file
- recommending behavior that is conducive to enabling the WAS to continue an affair
- supporting a person in denial
Certainly, I am a fortunate man for having found this place. I have learned much. I have gained much. I have changed much.
My greatest pain still is that the stories continue to be posted here and all as if they were poured from the same mold:
-two people meet and they propose their undying love for each other
-the attraction wanes and one or both stray off track
-someone get's their buttons pushed by an OP
-the LBS realizes where they strayed; the WAS uses anger and paints the LBS as something darker than they really were to support their reasons for the destructive path they chose (cognitive dissonance)
-frequently the LBS spouse turns doormat, dumpee, non boundary enforcer in an attempt to save a horribly sick marriage out of fear of the unknown and lack of self-esteem
We all know the rest of the story. The people who arrive here are usually 'worst-case scenarios'. Afterall, the reason they found this place was their that world had collapsed on them.
And then, there are those few 5% who find themselves in the piecing column. They are our heros. But....without mentioning names, in the last 4 weeks I've found 3 'piecers' posting back here with problems again.
Piecing...is not easy..and frequently, are really only band-aids because the REAL work hasn't been done.
Gawd, I pray for all here to find the happiness that they thought they had when they walked down the aisle years ago. I pray that they will find trust again in a friend...or GF/BF...or, perhaps even with a new spouse should their M not make it.
It's a lesson....not a failure. You know you've made it when you can say that and believe it.
FIB
Very well said, FIB!! And so very true!!
(((((hugs)))))
Frank,
((( ))). I have learned from you, on this board, and beyond. I love your comment about this being "a lesson and not a failure". Even if my m had ended, after decades, would it ALL have been "wrong"? I think not. IF we were getting "graded" we could have straight A's and then "flunk" or just a few "Ds" at the last semester (or have our spouses cheat on a few tests) and poof...is it ALL gone? I don't know the answer to that one, but many here have to face that question and you're so right, THAT is when the real work begins. Coming home is one thing; staying is another.
I think I'm a better wife b/c of you. Nope, Doesn't mean things will stay smooth, or even last forever. But for now I am a better wife. Thanks for that.
Um, so you know, I worked at Roy Rogers with my actress/sister our first year of college. We wore a cowboy hat and "prairie blouses" and boots, and had to say "Is this for here or out on the range?" and "Happy trails Partner!", etc. The only way to work there and not get worn out or embarrassed is to just go for it, ignore the silliness and embrace going over the top fully committed -to ENJOY the hilarity of it all....hmm, not bad preparation for life and M...
I'll look for you over in the other place and hope you can get a date for all this to end sometime soon...
(( Hugs )) to you FIB, and thanks so much for all the help & advice.
My h will may never know what a friend you have been to him...but I know, and I thank you-
your friend,
(( j- ))
25....you have me blushing.
My STBXW did some wonderful things for me in the time of 'good'.
-she gave me my son and daughter
-she made me laugh
-she supported me and built me up when I went out on my own
-we had many romantic nights
-we shared many nights of good sex and intimacy
-we went on many wonderful vacations together
But it was her decision that it was not enough for her. It was not fulfilling on a longterm basis. Her lifetime goals fell short for herself and she chose to list me as part of the cause. She also chose to let her affections wane and, like many of WAW's, chose not to work on it. She chose to emotionally withdraw from the marriage and try and find that what made her feel good in the past.
And so it is. That...is life...for many.
FIB
In time, when you heal, you will remember the good times, and it will not hurt as much.
Fib, I think it's time for you to stop rehashing what has happened. You know you did the best you could. You know she didnt. And in order for you to really move forward, you have to let it go.
So, take what you've learned on this journey and begin your new life. Start new traditions with your children, explore new possibilities and leave yourself open to accept what life offers.
This is the first day of the rest of your life.
I'm fine BM. I am closing shop!!. FIB
I want your reciepes.
And... I love it when you get mad!!! LOL!!
Dont worry about me. I have my marbles, remember? You may not like what I decide, but I like what you advise me.
Yep, the start of the rest of your -great- life!!!
K
To all: any suggestions for things to be written into the agreement? Anything that someone here regretted they hadn't put in? Thanx. FIB
I regret not having kids extracurricular activity expenses in the agreement as after the D it was a real pain in the ass to get that one agreed on. At least she agreed to pay for S9's piano lesson and any increase for D7's piano.
Retirement regret - I had 3 SEP IRA's and 1 401K that was used in the big spread sheet of division of assets. Transferring from a 401K would have cost between $700-$1000 to do, so we offered XW a value that could have easily been covered from the 3 SEP's. However, the market was collapsing badly during and following the D. By the time I got the SEP's transferred to her, I still had to come up with some extra cash (minus the tax).
Frank, I hope you both are so very close to getting an agreed upon settlement.
Fib, I know you're fine.
Keep on keepin on, my friend.
FIB, just some examples of what I had in my agreement:
Visitation-be as specific as you can be...including holidays.
No overnight guests of the opposite sex when the kids are present (unless married).
No alcoholic beverages to be consumed by the parent when he/she has the kids. (Unfortunately my ex is constantly breaking this one...may be back in court soon.)
Make sure you are kept informed of any school or extra-curricular activities...also, grades, report cards, etc.
Somehow insurance got left out of our agreement...make sure someone has insurance on the kids.
Some of my friends have college money in their agreements.
If either of us plan to take the kids out of state, we have to give the other parent one week's notice, where we are going, and information on how to get in touch w/ the kids.
We have to notify each other of any changes in address or contact numbers.
And, we have to give the other parent at least 30 days notice if we plan on moving....especially if it is going to affect the visitation schedule. If it does, we have to go back to mediation and re-do the visitation schedule.
I'm not sure if this is what you were asking for; but, I hope it helps.
We are all rooting for you, FIB. I can't wait to see what life has in store for you next!!
Best of Wishes,
deb
Dont forget to have added the right of first refusal.
Since I pay child support, I am also required to maintain a life insurance policy with my XW as the beneficiary.
I cover the kids health insurance.
Have written in who gets to claim the kids as a deduction and a tax credit.
Kerry-
can't you make the kids the beneficiary with someone else as trustee for them while they're minors? Guess it's a policy to replace the alimony?
Forgive my crass cynicism...but I used to practice criminal law and um...well, I never like providing incentives and motives to some people...just sayin'
FIB maybe you should put in the agreement that an "autopsy will be mandated" if you die under odd circumstances....??
I'll post more to you later. (SIGH)
(( j ))
No overnight guests of the opposite sex when the kids are present (unless married).
No alcoholic beverages to be consumed by the parent when he/she has the kids. (Unfortunately my ex is constantly breaking this one...may be back in court soon.)
I agree with all of what Deb mentioned with the exception of the two above...
The overnight guest thing only works until the divorce is finalized. I don't see how you can enforce it after that. The no alcohol is also difficult at best to enforce. People need to get on with their lives, bad decisions and all. I had verbiage in the parenting plan that there would be no overnigt guests until the divorce was finalized, but she conveniently ignored it. The issue with these requirements is that there is little you can do about it if they are not followed. File a motion with the court ($$$) and maybe the judge will say she shouldn't do that. No repercussions. Unless there is something really destructive going on that may harm the kids, it probably just isn't worth the time, money and hassle to fight it and also just creates ill feelings between the parties involved because there is sense of one person trying to control the other's life even though they are now divorced.
Be specific about holidays and birthdays. Be specific about college $. I'm looking back at my PSA and am thinking this may be an issue to deal with when we get there.
Thanks all. I am going to review the first draft today. Much will need to be spelled out here...including phone calls, timing, etc. Also, I am concerned about future life events (eg, sweet sixteen, BM's, etc.). My atty has been doing this for over 35 years so she should know pretty much.
My atty has said in the past on her first vacay out of the country, "FIB, you are getting divorced. There will be other men." I agree with the above that we probably still try to control their lives, or, try to put some semblance of 'integrity thinking' on them, when, we really can't.
Took notes. Will post back. FIB
Do you think, deep down, that you were the best man for her? If you do, then whoever else she finds will pale in comparison and she'll eventually realize it. That should give you peace.
Hopefor future, Surprisingly, my exH did obey the no-overnight guests rule...even after the divorce was final. My understanding when I was going through my separation and divorce is that it is a normal request that there not be members of the opposite sex staying overnight (unless they are married) when the children are present.
As for the drinking, my exH is an alcoholic. I asked for that clause because he has already had one accident because he was driving drunk. His DWI was reduced to careless and reckless. I could care less what he does when the kids are with me; but, when they are with him, I need to know that they are safe. Yes, it is difficult to enforce...in fact, I am dealing with that very issue right now. Just this past weekend, my exH took my 12-year old son to the coast 4 hours from home. While they were there, he drank at least 12 beer and then drove home (also drinking while he was driving). My son's cellphone battery was dead so he had no way of contacting me. What if my ex had had an accident on the way home and my son had been hurt or killed?
I'm not trying to create ill feelings between my ex, nor am I trying to control his life. I just want to know that he is not going to be drinking and driving w/ my children. Before he started drinking Saturday, he told my son he was going to drink and that he didn't have to tell his mom (me) everything.
That is pretty serious Deb and I too would think seriously taking legal action. There is no excuse for someone to be driving drunk. Plus, having a child in the vehicle should only add time to a deserved lengthy jail sentence.
I agree on the drinking and driving issue. If there is a history of abusing alcohol like that, it is a reasonable clause to put in the parenting plan. Still difficult to enforce, but at least you lay the groundwork. If there is blatent disregard for you son's safety, I would suggest observed visitations.
Unacceptable draft. I can't go into all of it, but, I will simply give you an idea by saying that I am given one day during alternating weeks for 3 hours on a Wednesday.
Multiple other problems.
However, simply based on the parenting time, it would be enough for me to sell my life for money to go to trial.
I'm sorry.
FIB
FIB, you are right...that is unacceptable!!
Absolutely NO reason for YOU to be apologizing!!
Keeping you and your children in my prayers!!
Do you think, deep down, that you were the best man for her? If you do, then whoever else she finds will pale in comparison and she'll eventually realize it. That should give you peace.
I can't....shouldn't answer that. That's rationalization....a form of denial and wishful thinking. If I was, she would have chosen a method to stay. She did not and that is her life choice. She decided that I WASN'T the best man for her.
We men here don't the ability to understand how the WAW feels. And, understandably so. After being married, for most men here, it is incomprehensible to think that the woman they walked down the aisle with would feel so out of love or unattracted to them that they would lower their lifestyle, throw away their home, lose 50% of the time with their children, destroy their family and just walk away. They do it, everyday. Just look around us. FIB
FIB,
I would think that anything less than 50% custody would mean a serious legal fight, if I were you.
Their offer smacks of low-balling, hoping that you will come back with a counter-offer that is lower than 50% that they will jump at.
What exactly is your lawyer doing for you FIB? I know you like her and all, but I can't help but feel that she has woefully underrepresented you through all of this. In this day and age there is absolutely no reason that I can think of why the father of two children would not be entitled to half custody.
I hate that this madness continues for you, re: dealing with a spouse who remains intent upon bringing you as much pain as possible. The woman really seems unredeemable to me at this point.
Stay strong and do everything in your power to gain a settlement that you will be able to accept for the long haul.
Blessings,
Bill
I am a firm believer in equal custody time except in cases where it can be proved one parent is unstable or cant fulfill the 50% time. Kids need both parents. Our society suffers when kids are brought up in single parent homes.
If it was me facing 3 hours of time with my kids once every 2 weeks, I would go to trial. You say your L has 35 years of experience - good - I am sure she can help you get parenting time that is in the best interest of the kids.
I really believe your STBXW is doing this just for the sake of more child support.
50 percent is already a compromise.
Anything less than that (except in the rare cases Kerry mentions) would be an injustice to everyone.
Thanks to all. I agree. I need at least 2 days midweek. As a physician, tho', I must face a difficult decision and that is whether to let the kids sleepover. Logistically, I can't march the kids out in the snow at 2AM if I get called to the ER. I'd appreciate some thoughts.
The negative stuff as they wrote it up:
-shilty parenting time: alternating weekends (acceptable). 4-7 Wednesday following her weekend and 4-7 Tues, Wed other week
-2 weeks, nonconsecutive, in the summer.
-she wants one half the religious holidays (after she waffled multiple times)
-she wants me to pay her health until Cobra starts
-they want me to be responsible for the HELOC
-no radius listing on moving distance
-she wants maintenance
-my L tells me that HER L tells her that she plans to quit working and go to school full time
-she wants to split all school holidays
-paragraph in there that says the kids have input on whether they want to be with the other parent (???)
Other comments:
-STBXW is leaving the house; the house will have to go up for sale; I am responsible for all costs re: the sale
-no comments on funding extracurricular activities
-other stuff
-of course that STBXW can change her name back (no big deal)
Of note is that her atty tried to sneak in that the cause for D was abandonment vs what we filed for , cruel and inhuman.
I admire those men here who have already survived this portion. I didn't sleep well last night and had renewed feelings of guilt and responsibility, but, please understand these feelings are NOT related to STBXW anymore but....for my children. It is clear that we, as men, get shafted when it comes to parenting time.
Kerry...Jeff223(if you are still following)....I'd appreciate some thoughts on working the schedule and dividing up holidays. Thanks in advance.
FIB
Do you think, deep down, that you were the best man for her? If you do, then whoever else she finds will pale in comparison and she'll eventually realize it. That should give you peace.
To CTH....funny. I thought about your comment all night long. I also note that you are a 'youngling' here (forgive the Star Wars term). I remember....having all those feelings in the beginning, those catch phrases that we all love to post to ease our initial pain:
-she'll regret it
-it's a bandaid
-she'll never find anyone like you
-one day they will regret what they did
Yada yada yada.
The sad fact is: women can lose attraction. People change and grow apart. People meet new people and fall in love again.
There will never be any antidote for the disease of feeling rejected. Nor will there be any ONE explanation for how any of us got here. As my atty told me last night, USUALLY,
TWO PEOPLE CONTRIBUTE to the demise of the marriage. Two. Sadly, one person usually paints the other with a darker brush stroke in order to validate their reasons for departing.
We go through so many phases to try and feel better about this:
-we vindicate ourselves and call the OP crazy, alien, sick, etc.
-we envision ourselves as the only person 'right' for the other person
-we deny our pain and live in a false hope place.....we await the
marital messiah to arrive....the land flowing with milk and honey and hope for reconciliation...a place where our WAS's wake up and say, "honey, I'm home. I made such a terrible mistake and I love you and want to come back and build that wonderful marriage that we read about."
Loss of love, rejection, divorce and loss of time with our children.....is a terrible thing. It happens. Sadly, too frequently.
I still stand here and say it BEHOOVES us to try and save our marriages. How long one chooses to stand....is a personal call. I pray, CTH, that YOU ....will be one of the fortunate.
I pray.
FIB
Wrapping up, I found my first post:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...4825#Post754825Am I that same man? I sound so 'newb'...so inspired....so scared but positive....
It reminds me of the optimism of a young college student who wanted to be a doctor.....so long ago...who grew up with Dr. Kildare, Ben Casey, Marcus Welby and Joe Gannon.....only to become frustrated with the 'system'...disillusionment...but now, ? reconstruction and rebirth?
Winding down.
FIB
Hey FIB,
Read your first post....sounds like you battled.....hard. The similarities in sitches with our XWs are so.....eerie. I am missing the middle chapters but i am guessing there is or was another man.
I want to add another line or catch phrase (that i repeated to myself):
No person regardless of how wonderful they are has the power to affect my life so negativelly. That is not really a catch phrase at all....
"Her loss" probably qualifies......that boys and girls I really believe.
Don't loose the optimism my friend....there are better days ahead. Yes the WAS lingers in your system but you have also stayed in hers...guaranteed.
Finally, "People meet new people and fall in love again." Why not YOU FIB?
Great post John. Yes...there were other men...multiple interests. FIB
To HopeFF..thanks. There was a paragraph or two in there re: illicit drug use, etc, appropriate for both of us, but, as above, there have been no abuse issues between the two of us.
To Silent....thanks for your continued support.
I imagine when STBXW moves out, I will start boxing up things. I am not the type to hang on. I will box up anything related to our marriage and seal it. I guess..it is just my way of getting closure.
Odd, now, that my posts have picked up. I knew that when the eventual end came, it would bring on a new set of emotions..but..this is personal now, for me and my kids.
FIB
Hey FIB, its Beginners. I though it was time for a new name.
There are still some difficult days ahead for you. And yes, the feeling of rejection takes a toll, doesnt it?
So, be kind to yourself in the coming months. Cherish those children. Let yourself feel the loss so that you can come out the other side. It really is a death of hopes and dreams and what you thought your future was going to be.
But with a death, after the grieving is passed, there comes a time for renewal. There will always be a dull ache that pops up from time to time. But, then life takes over and we move on.
So, my wish for you is that this next phase is relatively quick and as painless as possible. I pray that your children thrive and get through it all as intact as possible.
I hope that you stay open to the possibilities that life offers and that you find someone who deserves you.
And that you leave room for those donuts!
Catch you on the flip side.
Logistically, I can't march the kids out in the snow at 2AM if I get called to the ER. I'd appreciate some thoughts.
Then as a physician you hire a nanny that stays overnight while you have them.
shilty parenting time: alternating weekends (acceptable). 4-7 Wednesday following her weekend and 4-7 Tues, Wed other week
-2 weeks, nonconsecutive, in the summer.
-she wants one half the religious holidays (after she waffled multiple times)
What do you want FIB? How can we help guide you without that info?
no radius listing on moving distance
-she wants maintenance
No and no. Do not allow her this " no radius" bullshitt as she will move away with your children. You and I both know that is exactly her angle. Why would you pay her spousal support when she practiced infidelity? If your lawyer believes in this, get a new one.
paragraph in there that says the kids have input on whether they want to be with the other parent (???)
Unacceptable, it almost dares the parents to try and persuade the kids. They are children and until they are of legal age in your state they do not get a vote. Plain and simple.
STBXW is leaving the house; the house will have to go up for sale; I am responsible for all costs re: the sale
The cost of selling your house should first and foremost come out of any equity from the sale first. Her lawyer sounds like a sneaky manipulative lawyer, not shocking considering who he/she is representing.
Stand up FIB, fight for what is right and what you want.
Ian
I agree with everything Ian mentions. You cant compromise on any of those points.
my L tells me that HER L tells her that she plans to quit working and go to school full time
I heard this with my brothers wife when he was going through a divorce and with mine too. Neither ever went to school. It is a ploy so they can get alimony for re-training.
It is clear that we, as men, get shafted when it comes to parenting time.
Yes, it does happen, but dont think about that now. You have to have optimism that you are going to get fair custody time. I did not get shafted custody wise (a little shaft on the financial end), and remember, I was the one to file just like you.
Based upon their crappy offer, I think you are headed to court to have this thing settled. I am sorry that this is dragging on so long for you.
Yes, still following.
Her proposal is totally unacceptable. If your lawyer is advising you to take it then you will live to regret it, and you have the wrong lawyer.
The compromise position is equal placement. You should try for more. Your kids deserve both parents and if they do not spend overnights then you will be nothing but a visitor.
You are a doctor so that means no overnights?
You need to adjust your schedule. The kids come first my friend. Make it clear that you cannot pull ER on certain nights. If that is not acceptable at the hospital, find an alternate medical field.
If she plans to quit work that is not your problem. If fact that is a common threat - the judge can force her to work.
You are in the home stretch. Compromise now and you will die inside. Trust me here, I get 40% and I am sick about it, even though I get every other weekend and half the summer and half the holidays and schoiol breaks - or 50% of the time they are not in school. Sick about it.
Don't accept what she is proposing.
Strength and Honor.
Thanks all. I pulled myself up by my britches. My L is on top of things and countered all of those.
I wrote a letter 2 days after to my L. I requested:
-a midweek sleepover
-instead of taking the kids to her on Sunday night, to deliver them to the bus or school on Monday AM
-whether something can be written about being able to pick up and drop off at sports events if I coach his team
-ability to be at and participate in extracurricular activiites, sports, etc
My L is on top of things. She picked up some great stuff (eg, that as I stay in the house until it's sold, I should get a credit for paying down the mortgage and increasing the equity). She reworded a lot of stuff (eg, from a income review every 2 years to a COST OF LIVING increase every 2 years...big difference in verbiage).
I'm sure my W is going to fight all of this and I can't argue with Kerry's comment about this going to trial. I don't want to, can't afford it financially but I can't afford to lose time with my kids at this age.
FIB
Good Frank. Missed your call - tried to call cell but no answer - mailbox full.
Hang in. Don't give up on a fair custody arrangement. That is what your lawyer should be focused on - not the legal wording of less important stuff.
Your kids require nothing less than TWO parents. That is your only focus. Get a second opinion if your lawyer does not support.
FIB,
Your kids won't be this young forever. The decisions you are making now will stay with you for a long time. Even if it's difficult to make it so that you can have an equal number of days and nights now, eventually they will be able to be by themselves should you get a call.
In my opinion, there is no more important/significant settlement issue than custody/visitation, and all it's surrounding issues. Summer vacations, holidays, birthdays, decisions on things like camps, sports to play or not play. Given your wife's refusal to co-parent so far, all the more important that as much of these things as possible be well defined in your agreement.
Blessings,
Bill
I am sitting next to my daughter in the ER. She seized again...103 plus fever. She is heavily sedated. I was notified by school....to follow. Stresses. W tearing me a second AH re, D on the way to the ERm FIB
oh no! prayers for your daughter. and for you.
Tell her to STFU and doesn't she see that her F-ing actions are causing this stress in your D? Ask if if she want's to be responsible for her death or her life? Stop holding back man.
Prayers for your D.
I'm hoping for the best. It has to be so tough when a little one is very sick.
I wish a judge could witness what is happening with your kids and how this evil witch is not helping out by cooperating as a responsible parent.
To all:
Thanks for your support. Update:
D6
My daughter had another seizure while at school. This one didn't break for a half hour. She DID have fever to over 103 and was admitted for a day of observation. In the ER, MIL was there and STBXW was 'showing her stuff' in front of her: "the FIB family won't steamroll over us any more". "You won't do x, y and z to me anymore. On the way to the ER, I was able to disburse information to her from EMS. You see, my little sister was able to get on the ambulance with my daughter and hand the phone to EMS. When I gave the info to STBXW, she went nuts on me:"why aren't they calling ME". Then tore me a second AH about the D as I was driving to the ER. I should have hung up. She never thanked my sister who was emotionally distraught over this. At one point, when my sister offered to take S9 home with her kids, STBXW overheard on my phone and began yelling. My sister put it on speakerphone and school officials overheard. Fair? Probably not, but, they heard with disgust and surprise.
D6 was started on an anticonvulsant since she has had 3 now within 6 months. S9 had a camping trip and it was my decision that he didn't get penalized so STBXW stayed with D6 while I took S9 ( discussed this with my L prior and she agreed it was the right thing to do). D6 appears OK now. She cultured positive for strep and has a neuro follow up today.
Court
As you know, STBXW refused to agree to mutual orders of protection and pushed this through 2 adjournments/3 meetings. She HAD to have her day in court. Again, she wouldn't agree and we had a mini hearing. She spoke in front of the judge and painted me as the usual:
-a liar
-a 'spindoctor'
-how horrible it's been to be forced to live with me
-I threatened her and hovered in her face (not true)
-she lives in fear (oh gawd)
-that I file tit for tat
I spoke for the first time and discussed STBXW's temper....how she turnes beat red and has pinpt pupils, yada yada yada.
The judge told us how stupid this was:
-that the both of you hardly frighten me
-how petty this is
-that someone in this court was shot yesterday and how meaningless a piece of paper is (tell me about it. We tried to agree to mutuals for 3 months now to get it over with).
He gave us 2 minutes to think it over. My L counseled me to continue to request the O of P. So....after all this...hours in court...fees...the judge ordered bilateral O of P's, the very thing STBXW refused to agree to months ago. It could have all been avoided. She, needed to have her day in court.
Of course, her father sat in the back of the courtroom. She ALWAYS has a family member there.
So, it's all done..hearings, that is.
Parenting Time
The best I can do, with STBXW's agreement, is every other weekend and 2 nights of parenting time (3-4 hours each) without a sleepover (I was initially only offered ONE). According to my L, in her 35 years experience, NO JUDGE has given the non-custodial parent a sleepover during the school year during the week. She also tell said that it is 'too disruptive' and it would end up going to trial if I insisted on this and I would most likely lose.
Vacations would be alternated and I would get 2 non consecutive one week vacations during the summer.
Pro-rata share on most else which right now, is 70/30.
STBXW will vacate the house which my L finds unprecedented ("where is she going to go? Most women retain occupancy. This is pretty much unprecedented").
The house will have to be sold and I will stay in it...the captain of a sinking ship.
I am saddened at the thought that, in all of this, I feel like the loser. Men usually are in my state. I must deal with those feelings again...of failure...and overcome.
FIB
PS...for the first time, my son said to me, "yeah...mom's acting crazy again."
FIB
Why cant you both be a custodial parent with a 50/50 shared schedule? It is what is best for the kids if both parents are capable.
Don't think it works that way here Kerry.
I took one more shot from her. During the court meeting, the judge made fun of me by mentioning War and Peace. I had written multiple pages on all the stuff she did.
This morning, in the twilight as I got up early from work, there was a copy of War and Peace placed on the shelf in the family room.
SMACK.
FIB
Hey FIB, wounds are still fresh right now. Eventually you will not be affected by your XW's "shots".
Feelings of failure is something that I felt. Feelings of wasted time or of living a lie for a decade or so....but never a feeling of being a loser. I do not know ALL the ins and outs of your sitch but maybe your XW should carry that tag.
Well, you will have to make the best of the time you have with your kids....show them the way.....be strong for them.....they are sponges at this age.
Don't make one person affect you so much FIB....nobody should have so much power. Walk with your head held high!
Great post John. I like your stuff and I totally agree most everything you write. There is too much enabling here...too much denial.....too much codependence I think. Many of us are afraid to scream out "THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES."
While I was DB'ing....I got many comments and cards from STBXW about what a great dad and husband I am/was. Since the filing, of course, I am a big pile of poo. LOL.
S'OK. I grieve for the time to be lost with my children.
FIB
Somehow (I wonder why), your wife strikes me as a very self centered person and without having the knowledge, just a gut feeling, I think you will be getting more time with your kids than what the court "ordered". Not immediately but down the road.
My L told me that, at least here, fathers fight for more and usually see the kids less because they soon "have other things to do". That "no father that wanted to be part of his kid's life" didnt because of the court's rulings. Life has a way to put things into perspective and when the dust settles, I hope your wife's activities will push her to the direction of your kids having more time with you because she will realise and accept that it will work better for all concerned. Plus the kids may express their wishes...
I wish you a peaceful and happy life. Soon.
Love
K
When my XW has the kids on her weekends, she gets a babysitter for the evenings so she and Ed can go out. That is their choice.
Don't think it works that way here Kerry.
Where is here, NY? I do think that if you can demonstrate being a pretty large part of your children's lives, that most judges are more willing to look at 50/50 custody. It is just logistics - are you both in the same school district, for instance? Will the kids have their own rooms at each house? Do both parents have similar work schedules to be able to be with the kids?
I do hope you look into it further, if it is something you may want. It would be terrible to look back with regret...
I agree wholeheartedly with what Donna has written.
Again I'll say that this is a decision you will be living with for quite some time.
For what it's worth, were I a judge in family court, I would insist that divorced parents live within the same school corporation boundary, close enough that the kids would have easy access to both parents. Living that close together, I see no reason not to grant 50/50 custody, though that need not mean upheaveal for the kids every couple days. If a spouse would not agree, that would by default cause them to lose 50/50 custody.
You will mourn the loss of time with them FIB. Please be sure that your lawyer knows what she's talking about.
Blessings,
Bill
Sorry Frank but you need to get another opinion on the time with the kids thing. You spent over a YEAR on the stupid money stuff and now you are willing to roll over on custody?
Go see another lawyer. Also, there must be a father custody group in NY. We have one here. These groups know the latest about custody issues and fight for the 50-50. They can put you in touch with lawyers that specialize in that area.
I live in backwards Alabama, where women are sweet southern bells and fine mothers and men are dumb hicks. Yet I got a WAY BETTER schedule with my kids than what you are describing. Backwards AL versus liberal NY and you can't get liberal custody? Hard to believe.
Get other opinions my friend. You will regret it if you don't.
I live in the communist/feminazi/anarchist area of Oregon and even they are fair towards equal custody time.
I agree with Jeff - check out a NY fathers rights group.
Noted. Researching. The only wrench is that I am a surgeon and take call. A judge may find that disruptive. I am looking into NY fathers rights. My friend sent a link. FIB
Not sure if this is legitimate or an ad for an L:
http://www.fathersrightsnys.com/
Found three other advocacy groups that I emailed today to see if there is someone I could speak with. FIB
FIB,
Why is she custodial parent? I have shared custody with neither as custodial parent and 50/50 time sharing.
Drew...I am a physician with a heavy call schedule. I think that the issue is 'disruptiveness'. I could have the kids and get called in the middle of the night for an emergency. In the least, I would need a sleep-in during the week. On the weekend, I have my family for coverage. Even then, if I get a 2AM call on a Saturday, I would have to arouse the kids from sleep, so, would most likely need a sleep in. FIB
Two of the emails bounced back. LOL. FIB
Do they have phone numbers?
Hey FIB, just stopping by to say hi. Hope you are doing ok.
To all...my atty called me today. STBXW rejected all changes/requests/ etc.
I discussed with my L. Recommendation is to withdraw all and go back to requesting sole custody. STBXW is now becoming 'power hungry'. Sadly, this is not going to be settled. She is ramming this down my throat.
FIB
I am so sorry, FIB. There are no more words. The offer for donuts still stands, though.
If you are on-call, I wonder if you could hire someone to also be "on-call" to cover the kids at night.....
Aren't doctors a high-divorce population? I say that with the thoughts that there may be support through a professional organization. Sounds like you need a lawyer who is more familiar with fighting for father's rights...
DF....not sure what is more father's rights than fighting for them. STBXW was bullied as a child. Her parents fought for her. Now..I am labelled as the bully and they are going to stand up to me, punish me,put me dowb etc.
FIB
FIB -
If you think you want more time with your kids, you have to fight for them - who cares if anyone thinks you are a bully?
Once it is set, only a MAJOR change in circumstance can have the issue revisited. You've got one shot.
How can they punish you? What more can they do?
I read a bit about NY custody - says the mother does not automatically have any more rights than the father. Also, a court-appointed atty for the kids will weigh in with what is best for the kids.
Good luck...
Frank,
Why can't your lawyer enlist the services of a father's rights advocacy group? I'm sure that you are paying her top dollar for her services, seems like something SHE would be on top of, particularly if custody time is primary concern in the settlement agreement.
Is it possible that with a 50/50 arrangement your child support would be reduced enough to afford a nanny for those nights you are on call? I'm sure it's expensive, but as others have chimed in already, once this agreement is made, you'll catch hell trying to get it changed in the future. As far as that goes, what are the possibilities of a change in your schedule that would reduce the amount of overnight on-call responsibility you carry?
I think it's long past time to start playing rough legally with your wife. In your shoes I am inclined to think that I would tell my attorney to pull out all stops to make a proper agreement happen.
Blessings,
Bill
Done....it is about to a begin. It is not what I wanted. I tried. What's that saying? I didn't start it but I'm going to finish it?
In surgery, sometimes it's time to operate when we are stuck..don't have the answers...or the patient is deteriorating. Honestly, I don't see much of an option here except to push the throttle forward. There is a lot that STBXW can bend, truth-wise, to make me look bad. But...there is much fodder for me to show that I am a good father and do much of the caretaking.
If she had said no to 3 things, yes to 3 things and maybe to 3 things, we'd have a shot here. But to shut down EVERYTHING and WITHDRAW my parenting time.........
This won't be pretty....
FIB
Bill....as you see, we are going that path. If I have to, I will get a full-time nanny, downsize, do whatever is necessary. An angry, belligerent, vindictive person should NOT be in control. It's a tough battle in NYS. I may lose, but, where I stand now....it's ridiculous.
The state of NY does NOT award joint custody. It doesn't exist in the legal system. They award only sole custody. Winner takes all.
FIB
Same here. Only sole custody and 99% to the mother. I would have to fight if I wanted to offer 50% custody... What can I say?
At some point you do what you gotta to do. She doesnt leave you with any other options? Have you talked to her directly about this? Did her lawyer say why she rejected everything?
K
Kalni....u can't talk with her. She is on a power trip right now. I have a combatant, not a co-parent; I have a belligerant, not a co-operative.
STBXW said, in response this morning, that SHE is going for sole custody.
My work is cut out for me. What an ugly person she has become. FIB
Interesting read...
http://trishwilson.typepad.com/blog/2006/04/shared_parentin.htmlIn my situation, since we are amicable to each other, shared parenting works very well and is of great benefit to the kids.
When your court date for the custody decision comes, show yourself as a cooperative parent who wants the best for his children.
What a mess your STBXW has created!
Just read this and thought it was interesting:
http://www.divorcenet.com/states/new_york/nyart27Am I also right in that in NY, you can sue for divorce for fault? Reasons why things happened, and what you did to try to save the marriage, might be helpful....
Good luck, FIB.
I dont think bringing up the past in custody court will be useful. Unless what the other parent has done in the past has shown to be harmful to the children and that behavior could be deemed to continue, then it is worth bringing up. But your best bet is to focus on the future plans for the children.
The Parent's Observable Behavior in Court
A parent's behavior in court will play a significant factor in determining custody. Being argumentative or expressing hostility towards the other parent will be noticed by the judge. Likewise, being reasonable, cooperative and respectful towards the court will help. In court behavior alone will not determine custody, but it can certainly help tip the odds one way or the other, and should not be ignored.
Good point, Kerry.
But if FIB filled citing adultery, even if he never says anything about it in court himself, it is still something the judge is likely to notice.
Adultery won't matter. One thing my STBXW will argue is that I let the kids stay up late, they both got hurt on my watch (Paige broke her arm playing with her cousins in a houseful of people; Justin strained his foot the other night at 9PM, his cousins were over and has a splint on).
I agree that the best plan is to focus on what you do as a parent, future plans, etc, vs being negative and attacking in the courtroom. I don't know how we are going to pay for this. I am saddened that her atty. can't control her. Truly....this sucks...for all..including the kids.
FIB
Adultery is NOT a cause in NY...it is a misdemeanor and not an action as my L tells me. NY requires you to find fault with the other person. FIB
i agree with Kerry. We all have reasons to be pi$$ed about our exes' behaviours but if at all possible, I think the best interest of the children should dictate our interactions with the ex. These are rules I live by and D8 is benefitting from them...I have decided to bury the hatchett with ex. Now, I realize that your stbxw is very confrontational but keep your eye on the goal FIB...your kids....stay focused. Keep your head up!
Frank -
It was nice to hear your voice. I've only talked to one other person on these forums and that was a local lady (goldeylox) who needed me to call the police in case she did not get back to me after a certain time - her H was abusive. Last I read, her marriage was starting to become reconciled.
You are in a fight that most here never have to endure. Most divorces are settled out of court over a time period when cooler heads can work out negotiations. Unfortunately, the circuitry in you STBXW's brain is not functioning normally and she is making the whole process difficult for all involved. The lawyers are the only ones that will gain.
I guess for me, I am still in denial that New York, one of the original 13 colony's, could be so messed up when it comes to family law and what is best for the children. I just hope that you get a judge who has a level head and can see through your STBXW's anger and charade.
A judge will be able to make the difference between kids getting hurt and kids getting abused... it will make her look worse to bring these things up so I would hope that she does ... just to show her crazy....plus if she thought this was true why would she not have acted on it before now... that shows her just as guilty of it as you would be if it were true. If I wrote down everytime my kids got hurt on my watch... please .. stop drinking that kool aid... kids get hurt
Your wife is a bully.
Call her bluff on this abuse stuff.
She'll have a hard time proving anything.
Can your lawyer recommend psch testing for her & be willing to do it yourself.
And where is your Guardian Ad Lidem in all of this Frank? The GAL's recommendation, even in New York, has a great deal of bearing on the judge's decision. You need to make the GAL work for you. She/he needs to meet one on one with the kids and get their opinion. She/he needs to be interviewing teachers and other students at the schools. She/he needs to be interviewing anyone who is interacting with your family.
Adultery does not play a role in divorce in new York, but it does in custody hearings. It is testimony to the ethical behavior and the character of the spouse who commits the act.
These are the issues that make me continually question your attorney. You need to seriously figure out how to take charge of this crap.... .
Ian
Donna...thanks for that article. Of course, there are a lot of positives and negatives in that article. My profession, for one.
To sofaraway...both my L and I and have felt that the LG is on my STBW's side throughout this. I don't think her recommendation would be pro FIB. JMO right now as I am not sure.
IMO, this would have been pretty straight forward to settle. STBXW is driving this to court right now.
As mentioned, the state of NY only offers sole custody. Joint custody is only agreed to between two parties. SHOULD the court award custody to STBXW simply based on her being the mom, most likely, I will never see my kids again. FIB
FIB
Just noticed that you had rolled you business around the corner here.
Not that I knew you from the start on here but it sure does seem like you are a strengthened man from your odyssey. I am still processing your latest post. It is a real good one chock full of helpful insights you have gained.
Keep finding joy and continue seeking His counsel in all things.
Ted
You are getting hung up on sole vs joint. These are just words that really mean nothing. It is the schedule that matters. I know of men with joint custody who have very little contact with the kids and men where the xW has sole custody where they have liberal time with the kids (I am in that group).
The last thing she should want is for the judge to decide. At least that is what her lawyer should be telling her. You can never predict what may happen in court. If she is serious about being a good mom then she may be receptive to agreeing to a fair custody schedule. If she needs to have the "sole" custody designation, so be it; you are going to pay her anyway. But, since she seems on the take no prisoners mindset, out to punish you by taking the kids away, she may push you to trial. Hopefully her lawyers will talk some sense into her.
Stay the course Frank. Work the schedule. That is all that is important. And you WILL see your children Frank, so no more negative thoughts about that.
Strength and Honor.
What Jeff said. I can understand why a court might not like the idea of joint custody unless the parents agree to it, as it could well be asking for years of conflict. But sole custody does not mean that there isn't "visitation" or "parenting time" spelled out. Unless there is a very good reason no court is going to accept an agreement without it. And a parent who has sole custody and tries to eliminate time with the other parent could well end up losing custody, or even being held in contempt of court.
Custody and the parenting schedule are 2 different things.
No one is going to make it such that you wont see your children again. Please drop the dramatics on this topic.
My divorce papers and parenting plan indicates "Joint Custody" or "Joint Legal Custody". That does not dictate any parenting time - simply who has responsibility for major decisions, of which we both share. Sole custody would assign one parent to make those big decisions. And sole custody is probably best when both parents cant be amicable with one another.
There should also be a clause...
Each party shall make day-to-day decisions regarding the care and control of the Minor Children during his/her parenting time. The ability to make decisions includes any emergency decisions affecting the health or safety of the Minor Children.
I think that you need to come up with a parenting schedule that will work for you. This should include holidays and vacation. Your L should know how to write one up as they need to be somewhat detailed. For summer vacation, we alternate years on who gets first pick of dates and it must done before April so that the other parent has time to make their proper plans.
I really believe that if your L presents a fair and well thought out parenting plan to the court that it should show that your side as been level headed and wants what is best for the kids.
I tend to agree with Ian in doubting your L's experience in getting this done right. Custody and parenting schedules should have been done first before any haggling over assets/support. There must be a wall between custody and money issues.
If you desire, I can scan my parenting plan and email it to you so that you know what things to put in it.
Kerry is spot on. The only connection between the parenting plan and money issues would be child support amounts, which, at least here, vary depending on the physical time in each home.
Besides time in each home, the disparity in income for each parent and who pays outside child care is used in determining child support.
In my case we are 50/50 on time. I make a lot more than my X, but I also pay for external child care which I can deduct on my taxes. I end up paying her $600 a month in child support for both kids combined.
Good stuff here Frank. Your focus and your lawyer's: do everything for the kids. Nothing less. That is all that matters - avoid EVERYTHING else.
Her focus: punish FIB, take kids away.
That will come out in court and may be enough to win the judge over, despite you being not the mom.
My lawyer told me that if I did have to go to trial I would make an excellent witness b/c I was focused. You need to focus now too. Be that parent - out for the kids, not you. Doubt she can do that. It is all about the kids now - not winning or losing between you and her.
Work the schedule Frank. What do you require?? Or better, what do the KIDS require??
Hey FIB...
I think, too, that you are getting hung up on wording. Here in MN it is rare for one parent to have full legal custody...
It normally goes
joint legal custody with one parent (usually) getting physical custody, althought he trend has been toward joint physical as well
for example...my ex-husband, although he has not had contact at all with my boys in 10+ years has joint legal custody but I have full physical. He was awarded visitation, which he clearly has never used
Cori has joint legal custody with his nutjob but full physical custody...that doesn't mean that his daughter doesn't get to see her mom...just means her HOME is here
I am with Ian...your GAL needs to step it up and you can always request another one as sort of a double duty kind of thing.
don't get hung up on verbage but go for what matters...time with your kids
both my L and I and have felt that the LG is on my STBW's side throughout this. I don't think her recommendation would be pro FIB. JMO right now as I am not sure.
GAL's are supposed to stay impartial and generally do not lean one way or another. You may be surprised at what the GAL recommends.
Joint custody is only agreed to between two parties. SHOULD the court award custody to STBXW simply based on her being the mom, most likely, I will never see my kids again.
Really FIB, you really believe this? New York does not offer joint custody, however that does not prevent a judge from seeing a mothers true colors when she negligently does not work out a joint parenting plan with a father who has shown no ill will. This is not the 1960's anymore FIB. The system has changed along with societies view on fathers rights.
Lastly, and I am saying this as your friend Frank, your attitude portrayed on here does not help. PMA dude, Positive Mental Attitude. I would love to see you maybe get into a mindset of not having these super negative moments. The drama that they cause for you have to be overwhelming...Just my opinion buddy.
Ian
(SIGH)
FIB,
Not sure if you remember, but I went through much the same 12 years ago. Mine went to a trial, yes trial, when X was acting much like yours. I felt I was pushed into a corner and had no recourse.
Much the same, GAL (guardien ad litem) turned out to be totally on X's side. I was portrayed very badly etc. etc. I decided though, I was standing my ground and not asking for anymore than I would have agreed to. My integrity was at stake and I would not go against that even if it meant losing.
The outcome was and is everything I was willing to agree upon. She is custodial parent because she has slightly more time. That really means nothing as far as parenting goes. The judge saw through her shenanigans and admonished her and her attorney for being vindictive. You see, being a parent in situations like this means accepting you may lose but doing the best you can for your children. I never did bad mouth X in court or in front of kids, in fact, I told the court how I only wanted to be a father and parent. How could I possibly do that effectively with very limited contact?
There are many different alternatives and the courts tend to see right through adult squabbles. Stand your ground where applicable and bend where it really isn't that important. They grow up quick and will come to there own conclusions! Both my boys understand there mothers in a different reality than most.
Nuff said...
cire
Great post Cire, really good for Frank to hear.
Once again Frank YOU have to be the one to take the high road and yet stand as a man and father for what is right and proper.
You've done it over and over throughout this process. You've learned what it means to take responsibility for what is yours and to refuse to accept what is not.
Your STBX's words and actions are stunning, hurtful, and inexplicable given how your situation has unfolded. But don't allow the shock value of the forces she is attempting to rally against you to cause you to become something you are not.
You are a committed and loving father to two amazing children. You are a skilled and compassionate physician who makes a difference in the lives of your patients. You are a trusted and valued friend who time and time again has come to the aid of those who needed you.
You do not have to become "like her" to take the reigns in this divorce matter. You don't have to become an ass or a hateful person to stand up and say, "I love my children and insist that I continue to have an active and vital role in their lives on a regular basis."
Lead the way Frank. And make sure your lawyer is following YOUR wishes to a T. Stop responding, and have your lawyer stop responding to your STBX's legal nonsense except where absolutely necessary. Accept that this will go to trial and take this time to prepare thoroughly with your lawyer so that when that day comes, YOU are the calm, collected, reasonable, rational spouse in that room.
Stop fearing the worst, start preparing for the new life to come.
One thing that I have taken from my experience is that we spend FAR too much time and effort responding to and worrying about the outrageous, when rarely does the outrageous come to pass.
Still here. And sorry again that we continually miss each other on the phone. If you can find a way to get your number to me, I would be glad to call you sometime. Perhaps a text or a message on fb.
Blessings,
Bill
Drew...I am a physician with a heavy call schedule. I think that the issue is 'disruptiveness'. I could have the kids and get called in the middle of the night for an emergency. In the least, I would need a sleep-in during the week. On the weekend, I have my family for coverage. Even then, if I get a 2AM call on a Saturday, I would have to arouse the kids from sleep, so, would most likely need a sleep in. FIB
Frank,
(sigh)...let's chat. I will say here, that your schedule as a doctor DOES make a legit diff. Imagine a more "normal" mother and then others will realize that it's reasonable to want a parent guaranteed present for the kids at that age...having a doctor on call sucks for kids if there's no wife around. Being in the military, serving your nation, as a mom or dad, also costs one heavily in these matters and I've seen it a lot. Like reservists of both sexes--soldiers who serve their countries honorably but lose their kids b/c they are called to duty.... Very sad and unfair to the parent
but worse for the kids not to have it handled ahead of time. As appealing as hiring a
nanny is, for those nights(deployments), seems, it
costs more than having them with their own mother,
and she may argue 'first right of refusal' j
ust as you would if she really were to attend schooling and had final exams. Would you want her to hire a sitter then, or leave them with you, on "her" days in that sitch? Forget her faults as a wife for a minute before answering...If you were communicating in a healthier manner, (yeah, I know, with a healthier woman...) this would not be such a sticking point.
ANd I do think she's lowballing in her ONE night a week for 3 hours... Sadly this is not a used car sale...it is a child custody dispute and you'd think folks would approach it as reasonably as possible.
I'm not defending what is happening, (except as it relates to your on call schedule b/c there were nights my h would NOT have seen the kids at all on "his" nights if that had happened AND he's dead tired after an all nighter anyhow, so in fairness, I think the judge has a point...it's hard for us to see that b/c we don't like your w much...) But we have to help you get thru this. Our acrimony for her isn't all that helpful at times...but again, I don't like being confused with the bad guy b/c I translate the message, as in, I"m only the messenger.
Don't be miffed at the judge too much. He's just as turned off by her histrionics as he is by your tome/journal of her wackiness.
I don't know all that you documented, but it's stuff that happens in front of the kids that matters most, or threats...
The problem some are having here on the DB board is that we are blaming her for the div and in many ways that seems fair to us. We are your friends and supported you in your DBing --and I think some of her actions were simply beyond the pale, no matter what type of jerk you may once have been. So yeah, I do hold her accountable for a whole lot. I admit that. But I'm able to detach from that belief and know that the judge does not have to assess this....yet anyhow. "Cruelty grounds"? He's seen much worse than either of you can claim I suspect...just mho.
BUT having said that,
her behavior as a wife is NOT relevant to determining child OR spousal support in NY evidently, (His L is not an idiot; he likes and trusts her --HUGE--and she's experienced in this area and HE is getting the house for now and the forensic accounting came back good for FIB and the support is NOT forever(or did I misunderstand?) and
SHE"S moving out so not all things are going against FIB) so everyone telling you to "fight that part!" of this, based on her infidelity is counterproductive and missing the irrelevance of it to the judge. Sorry...
Your L knows NY law and I don't think all this whining about how unfair it all is, helps you much. Does it? It reeks of the man vs woman whining that seeps into many of my female friends discussions (men are pigs) and my male friends (the shrew is screwing me over, etc).
Her screaming behaviors are where I'd draw the line asap b/c that affects your kids and it's too crazy to tolerate. She will revise the marital history no matter what, but your calmness will shine through her rages, which your son has already noted...sadly.
Suggestions:
The 50/50 thing is YES, very desirable and fair - BUT FOR THE FACT THAT YOU ARE A SURGEON...and for that, you have to make adjustments. Not as many as she's asking of course,
Yes I'd argue for more time, especially in the summer (makes school a moot point) and whatever time YOU can take off, and would make nearly all your vacation time be shared with them, consequetively of course. At least 2 weeks.
Also I'd argue for staying in the same school district (
Stability of the kids!! after all.) unless both parents consent in
writing. I've seen folks get screwed on this be merely insisting that kids remain in the same state. That's not enough. New York is a big state so that only works in Rhode Island. I'd argue She cannot move the kids more than an hour away (as a back up position) but why not try to keep them in the area you both can easily reach? So obvious to all of us...maybe not to her. Like it or not, you are the father of the children so yes you do get to "control" some things. Ahem...that's life.
Also if she doesn't attend school within say 2 years, that money goes away and income gets imputed to her...as in, "G-G-G-GET A J-J-J-JOB!!"She didn't put you through med school or residency & you know how crazy that makes me...what the hell do you owe her for her choice on that? OR she can go to school and repay you the costs when she makes her fat pay check...What?
You held her back? From what? Discovering a new hair product? (Sorry that was mean...yikes...I feel cat claws retracting...) meow!
Anyhow, we'll chat soon. Let me know your schedule. Pick your battles wisely...
oh, I have to go read the rest of this thread but had to reply now while I had a minute and felt fired up. Will finish it later...((( j )))
finished the thread...
Amen to Cire and Bill...you are getting strong advice from these experienced guys. Don't stoop too much and let the little people (I'm thinking Gulliver's Travels") pull you or keep you down with their tiny strings. Pull yourself up and break the idiocies...You will not be a bitter man and you can choose not to be. You are freer than you know..
You can do this. You are.
((( j )))
Hey FIB, thinking of you and praying for you and your children.
Anytime you want to go for a cup of coffe and split a donut, let me know, ok?
To all..in retrospect, I realize that I will NOT totally lose my children. She WILL do her best to alienate them from me (dramatics indeed, Kerry. Thanks for the a$$ kick).
Again, in NYS, they do NOT have joint legal custody in a courtroom. Only sole custody is awarded. I agree with my L in that, "FIB, you must get rid of this woman or you will find yourself in family court for the rest of your life. I am convinced that the children would be better off with you."
Well, obviously, that will now be in the judge's hands.
10/30...STBXW came home at 930P with kids after I asked her to have them home so I could have dinner with them. S9's cousins were in the house and she ejected them on arrival leaving him in tears (always throws them out). It was a Friday, no school the next day. I asked her to let them stay a few minutes. Pushing further would have created an ugly scene and she might have called the police or filed something.
10/31...she never trick or treated with them in spite of her requesting that I bring them home.
Yesterday, S9 told me that he was afraid to call me when he is with her. Today, S9 asked his mom, "mom, when are you going to vacuum and mop the floor again?". STBXW paused and responded, "I don't know. When are you going to help?"
It's just horrible with her now. Horrible.
I trust my L. I have discussed the parenting thing with her at many steps along the way. Even in her seventies she is bright and has been doing this for over 35 years...faxes me current supreme court rulings that will support us.
Thank G-d I kept this blog here. It is my diary. In Aug '06 my MIL HIT my son during a temper tantrum he had (age 6) and told me that she called STBXW and told her that "whatever she was doing was hurting the kids and that she should stop it right away."
To all....I have no intention of losing my cool or bashing my W. My only plan to is try and show the judge that a professional man in the year 2009 can be a hands on loving dad..provide an emotionally safe and loving home for his kids....and keep their mom in the lives of their kids without anger or malice. In any case, as Jeff223 knows in AL, the odds are still HEAVILY STACKED in favor of my STBXW getting sole custody.
I have my work cut out for me and I am prepping. What keeps me going is that it is SHE who is now driving this to court...not me. As such, I have to protect myself.
I pray...that the judge is a savvy man and is not bound down by stereotypes. In spite of giving lectures in a packed auditorium...and having to explain patient care in Moribity and Mortality conferences, as a resident, I am apprehensive about going to trial, but, I will do what is required. I've grown a lot since the beginning. I know the type of man that must be there.
FIB
25...read your entire post. It makes total sense. Ironically, then, it sounds like most women shouldn't even settle out of court. Why not just go to trial then? Think about it. By going to trial:
-STBXW can get maintenance
-STBXW can get sole custody
-STBXW can get residential custody
-STBXW probabably WILL get me to be assigned ONE night during the week once the judge gets thru with this
Why, then, 25....should STBXW settle out of court? She wins big from the get go this way. If I were her, I WOULDN"T SETTLE EITHER.
FIB
Frank, I am hoping that you will be surprised in another month by the court ruling.
I can almost envision, in a few years, the conflict between your son and his mother reaching a breaking point.
Kerry..thanks. I will vent here....spew my frustration...etc. But on Dec 03, I will walk into that courtroom head held high and will be the right man ..and father.....calm and steady. Thanks. FIB
Why, then, 25....should STBXW settle out of court? She wins big from the get go this way. If I were her, I WOULDN"T SETTLE EITHER.
FIB
Wins big? My X didn't, got admonished and it cost her bucks.
Her and her husband still complain about the amount of money I cost them. Funny, I think of it as they cost themselves.
It can be different than you might think.
cire
well Cire.....I have no choice in this, so, I will let you know. Honestly, it is a humbling feeling to walk around everyday and be made to feel like it is 'all my fault'. It needs to get done. FIB
You sound strong Frank. Good attitude. The best part is that you will do no worse in court than if you accepted her "offer". Of course the lawyers will be dining on steak and shrimp paid by you and her.
Keep an open mind. Remember, even here in bumbf*uk Alabama I got a judge who was as fair as he could be to men here. As others have said, you will be surprised.
As to the doctor thing, don't use that to accept less. Medicine is a big field and some doctors are not on call at all. Remember the job you almost took in the big city? Get the custody or the best schedule you can - then work it.
Chin up Frank. Your kids need you and deserve nothing less.
Strength and Honor.
Thanks Jeff. I intend to do just what you posted. It's funny, though. Everyday, at some point, I am running 'scripts' through my mind.....things I would say in a court. I am trying to not let it consume me.
There IS a possibility that the judge will try and 'force' a settlement, but, knowing STBXW, she enjoys using the legal system against me:
-filed a false police report
-filed 2 orders of protection
-strung out a hearing with 2 adjournments only to get what SHOULD have been agreed to earlier
-pushing trial
She has restarted taking the kids to family counseling. The kids have been good with me on my time. Not sure if this is because SHE is having difficulty with them or she is trying to pin something on me.
D6 is doing well again on medication. I keep in touch with school officials by email. She is going to have a 'para'...someone to watch her in school from a distance because of her recent seizures.
I ordered a netbook so I can get the typing done. She is openly hostile to me of late. Tells me NOTHING about kids doc appts, results, etc. I text her to ask results or call/email everyone.
FIB
Posted to me by Jeff223 on 08/27/09:
Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised … (James 1:12, NIV).
Posted to me by DonH, 08/06. Man..that guy was bright:
Unfortunately, it doesn't sound at times like your W has changed. It sounds like this may be who she really is. It is who she was before you met her. It may have even been who she was when you met her. Then slowly, she began to become this other person. The person you thought may be the real her. It is poss. that you are seeing the real her come out.
Bright guy.....
FIB
Posted to me by Jeff223 on 08/27/09:
Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised … (James 1:12, NIV).
Posted to me by DonH, 08/06. Man..that guy was bright:
Unfortunately, it doesn't sound at times like your W has changed. It sounds like this may be who she really is. It is who she was before you met her. It may have even been who she was when you met her. Then slowly, she began to become this other person. The person you thought may be the real her. It is poss. that you are seeing the real her come out.
Bright guy.....
FIB
Wow!
That is how I percieve my XW. She was a bad party girl before I met her - defiant towards her parents. Then she changed to be a good housewife for 8 years only to again revert back to party girl with an attitude.
Posted to me by Jeff223 on 08/27/09:
Quote:
Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised … (James 1:12, NIV).
That was not in 2009 - that was way, way back (maybe 2006?).
We are both still under trial Frank. But our trials build Better Men.
Great stuff. LOL. My post from 09/11/06
My new efforts:
-I schedule 3 more coaching calls with DB Chuck
-I am going to research Frank-D's thread as per nicola
-I am going to try a more 'hard-core' detachment
FIB
Correct Jeff, 2006. KerryK, as I read thru this, I am convinced that, similar to what is written in A New Earth by Tolle, we put on masks that cannot be kept in place forever.
There are chemicals in the body that intensify attraction that start to wane
after 12-18 months, and by 18-24 months are gone. That's the point at which
you find out whether there is REAL attraction or if it was just a
chemically-enhanced fantasy. After those chemicals wear off, it is the
behavior I describe in my book that keeps attraction up, and it can keep it
up indefinitely.
''''that's why I caution everyone to go through an intense evaluation before
trying to save a marriage; it is entirely possible to "save" a very BAD
marriage, and the only possible outcome of doing so is to be unhappy......
And now that
you have been through this ordeal, that is exactly what will happen to you.
You've been hit hard by this reality check, and you will hold out for such a
woman (referring to a relationship based on more than just 'attraction').
Luckily for both of us, they are very easy to find if you refuse to settle
for anything less so that you're available when they come along. In the
meantime, dating is an adventure of exploration, nto a process of trying to
bend yourself to each candidate and entice them to bend themselves to you.
That's what causes people to wake up at the two-year mark and realize they
really screwed up. Those initial attraction chemicals can make you see all
kinds of things that aren't there and make you excuse or ignore a lot of
problems that are there. And that's why I recommend to men to do the same
evaluation lists exercise as they go into dating that I recommend when they
are trying to determine whether to save a marriage. The lists are the same,
and when they're put on paper while you are rational, you have them as a
reference when you might be under the influence of attraction chemicals.
FIB
Kerry....it comes down to ...our choices. Granted, many of us fell into complacency or ...whatever. It's who WE chose that contributed to getting us here (among a few other things lol)
FIB
Looking back, I could have dated my wife for 2 years and I would have still married her. That is what scares me about dating now - how to chose. Maybe I should move to Saudi Arabia and get a harem where the members dont have the same monthly cycle.
Funny....have you ever checked out Cunningham's site? I DEFINITELY saw signs (not just crying spilled milk) that in retrospect were warning signs of emotional immaturity and instability.
FIB
Who is Cunningham? Can you link to an article?
Just google "making her happy david cunningham". He has an excellent blog and email newsletter.
I chose to look the other way as well because there were other "things" that enticed me. Well I guess that is part of the maturing process. Today, I realize that I should probably not have gotten involved back then. If we are brutally honest, I think most of us can find signs that there may have been trouble ahead. I am talking about character flaws here, not stuff like she does not cook well or he does not help around the house stuff.
Well here is to hoping we all learned our lesson and will have our antennas on and our blinkers off as well (there I go again with horse racing lingo).
I chose to look the other way as well because there were other "things" that enticed me. Well I guess that is part of the maturing process. Today, I realize that I should probably not have gotten involved back then. If we are brutally honest, I think most of us can find signs that there may have been trouble ahead. I am talking about character flaws here, not stuff like she does not cook well or he does not help around the house stuff.
Same here, but there were those enticements....
I agree with all. Near the end, we blame ourselves heavily for the demise of our marriage. Certainly, we all have imperfections which I think are conquerable in a healthy relationship. I truly believe that many of us were mismatched from the getgo, got lost in attraction and then became comfortable in a situation that our spouses were not. When attraction wore off, our spouses were left to face reality and their masks peeled off.
Cunningham says, as above, that it is 'easy' to keep a bad relationship going. I concur.
I think the challenge here is, when we finally come to this conclusion, that we don't go back to lobbing all the blame at our WAS's, assume the responsibility for the changes that WE needed, develop new and better tools and then move forward with them, "better, faster....stronger."
FIB
I swear this is true. As we are riding to the school, my W opens up to me that she was in contact with XXX via a paranormal and that she was able to contact her. The psychic reportedly got close to saying her real name, the psychic started to shake and to cry and said xxx was sad. Comments made to my W:
-that xxx was sorry that she had to leave this earth..it was too early for her and she misses her kids and earthly sensations
-that xxx can hear ME talk to her
-that the psychic asked her about a Dr. Gray (anyone recall that my W nearly passed out in the mall? I described that sensation to her then as 'graying out'
xxx was my friend's wife who died of breast CA.
Hey Jeff...in retrospect, I think the psychic was seeing me read Dr. Gray from Venus and Mars....LOLOLOL.
FIB
Frank,
Too bad you could not have visited the psychic before hand and paid her off to say some 'choice' messages from beyond to your nutcase wife.
LOL...Kerry...I like your humor.
Total immaturity. I texted my STBXW to see if she had responded to RSVP for a BD party that D6 is invited to. No response. Later that evening I texted her, telling her that I called the mom, there was no RSVP and that I would like to take D6 (it's my short Friday today). It's a movie theater party. As usual, STBXW is not honoring our verbal agreement that I would see the kids on altnernating Fridays. Texts:
STBXW: I am taking her.
Me: RSVP then. Will see you guys there.
STBXW: Don't forget the present (a swipe at me. Funny...for the last 3 years, the parent taking the kids to the party purchases the gift).
Me: If you are taking D6, u buy it. If she's going with me, I'll buy it with her.
Nothing left but hostility, barbs, hitting below the belt. Of course, there was no response.
FIB
Trial is approaching
I want to thank all of you for supporting me. I hurt tonite, but, for reasons much different than from when I first got here. This evening was probably was of the 'best' nights I've had with respects to GAL and DB'ing, yet, now, seems the most darkest of all. In the beginning, I had hope. I even told my W only days after the bomb and finding this place that I would make her fall in love with me again. Now, I'm not so sure that even I can do that. I said earlier, and I repeat, I am releasing myself from all of this....that, it truly IS 'all about my W' right now.
Just a though...how important...is our intuition and insight as we 'counsel' people here?
FIB
Considering that all we have to go on are a few words on the computer screen, I'd say intuition and insight are huge. And sometimes we get it wrong, I'm sure.
VH....agree. Ugh. I am rereading when I first discovered STBXW's EA which probably in retrospect was a PA. Ugh. I wish this was over.
If there is ANY anger..now..it's that I was 'seeing babysteps' and 'DB'ing' when I was being cheated on.
Jeff...you SO counseled me to 'throw down the sword'. The Emperor's New Clothes. Many days, in spite of how horrible this is, I wish I had filed earlier.
FIB
Some original posters on my thread...where are they now: kevmac, focus, sunflower23.
DonH's wife remarried. I call him from time to time.
SingleDad is waiting for D papers to be signed.
FIB
Hi faithisbelieving.
I just wanted to share something with you that I read today, and it applies to so many here on this board...
"The goal of healing is to have whatever harm you've suffered become the 'least' important thing about you. Other proples behavior is not about you at all. Only your core value is about you."
Hey FIB,
As you know I am a recent reader of your thread because I appreciate your straight forward, no nonsense style that I stumbled upon on other threads.
We did the best we could with the tools we had at the time. I don't think we can blame ourselves for the action of our WAS...I know the general thought on this site is that we have to accept that we were also to blame. Well, I don't buy into that.
We all tried DBing and hung on...some of us continue to ...longer than we should. I was told early on by my dad to move on. I chose not to. I do not regret it...i do not regret anything I did. We are not the reason why we are on this site...remember that.
I love the quote from antlers above. As long as our core values are fine, we will be fine. I would rather be me than the WAS even if they seem to have suffered less and are seemingly able to turn the page quicker than us. I would not change my place for theirs...
You will be ok FIB...there will be bumps on the road...going forward. Do yourself a huge favour and stop looking back and second guessing yourself. The past is just that...you can do something about today and maybe tommorow. There are good folks out there FIB....you will see.
I agree with John. Almost with everything he said.
Love
K
This is very good. I needed to read something like it today. Thanks.
I agree with John. Almost with everything he said.
Love
K
But why is John still a PIG?
Trial is approaching
I want to thank all of you for supporting me. I hurt tonite, but, for reasons much different than from when I first got here. This evening was probably was of the 'best' nights I've had with respects to GAL and DB'ing, yet, now, seems the most darkest of all. In the beginning, I had hope. I even told my W only days after the bomb and finding this place that I would make her fall in love with me again. Now, I'm not so sure that even I can do that. I said earlier, and I repeat, I am releasing myself from all of this....that, it truly IS 'all about my W' right now.
Just a though...how important...is our intuition and insight as we 'counsel' people here?
FIB
Yo Frank,
Through all of the posts way back when the consistent was that we have to do this for ourselves, we have to work on us for us and not for them.
A lot of those old posters are such better people today, not successful Divorce busters, I think not. Successful in that they were able to shed light on many many lives and become the people they were meant to be.
You are one of them. You have battled pretty hard and for a long time it hasn't been about anything but you. That's success dude. The shitt your going through now, imagine trying to handle this back in 2006, we were not strong enough back then to survive something like this, but now....you are.
So that saying that is tossed around here like beads at mardi gras about God not putting anything before you that you cannot handle, makes sense now doesn't it.
How about STOIC, do you remember how overwhelming it was at times for him? Do you remember the fears and concerns? Did you get a look at that amazing trip he just took to Hawaii with his girlfriend? Did you know he has come to Memphis in May every year so far? What an amazing example of how if the focus is truly on ourselves our lives will be amazing.
My point in all this, the past is the past and second guessing anything that your reading in your archives helps nothing. Focusing in on making sure that FIB is taking care of FIB still, that is what matters my friend.
Ian
"A lot of those old posters are such better people today, not successful Divorce busters, I think not. Successful in that they were able to shed light on many many lives and become the people they were meant to be. "
I love you Ian
I agree with all the wonderful posts above.
As a man, I would not be doing what I am doing right now to defend and protect myself in a court. I spoke with Ian and I told him...how alien this is to me as a man. But, as Lincoln said in Star Trek, "the war is now thrust upon us."
Today, my son asked me to tie his sneakers. He just got out of a splint from a foot ankle strain. He sits on the stairs in our house and I get in front of him to help get them on. He is 9.
My STBXW comes down the stairs:
"He is old enough to tie his own sneakers."
A few moments later, she comes up the stairs:
"He's 9 years old. He can tie his OWN sneakers."
A few moments later, she goes downstairs again:
"This is enabling him...enabling behavior."
My son, for the first time, looked at me with a 'what the f' is that' look.
I had two choices:
1) confront her, tell her that she should NOT talk this way in front of the kids, cause a scene, and, as you all know, have her elevate it out of control
or, away from STBXW,
2) Put my hand on my son's face, look him in the eyes and say, "S9, it's OK for your dad to help you put your sneakers on. It's OK.you know that" And give him a hug and a pat on the back
I chose the latter.
My son is on this earth only 9 years. I hardly think that tying his sneakers once is enabling. Does anyone recall the scene in Miracle on 34th St, with Kris Kringl and Alfred (Kerry K, youtube? LOLOL).
This has got to end. It's just horrible when she does this.
FIB
"A lot of those old posters are such better people today, not successful Divorce busters, I think not. Successful in that they were able to shed light on many many lives and become the people they were meant to be. "
I love you Ian
We all do fig. He is,what we term, a
BetterMan. They all are fig. Take my word on this, if you want to see some of the best posts you have read....stay with this thread til I end it...after the trial. You'll never see a group of better men EVER. This is my final match...as Jeff says referring to Gladiator...throwing down the sword. It's all about my children now. I love them, deeply and would lay down my life for them. I cannot fail now.
FIB
Frank,
I'm writing this to you tonight when I should be in bed asleep, preparing for my normal 3:30 am wakeup. The reason I am not sleeping is that I just got back from enjoying three wonderful nights with my wife, our first weekend together since football started. I enjoyed the company of my youngest son (now a senior in high school - he had just started his freshman year when my story here began), and three really neat bonus children.
Frank, life truly does move on. And not begrudgingly.
Don't look back on your past threads for personal recrimination or evidence of your failings. All it takes is a subtle shift in your attitude to look back through those old posts to find joy in strength, wisdom, and understanding that you have learned and gained through YOUR story here.
In the immortal words of Eve 6's Max Collins...
Don't look back,
The past is just that.
We are
we are
we are
we are
Awake.
You're awake my friend.
Blessings,
Bill
Hey Bill. Looking back is part of the closure process, as you know. We have to grieve what we have lost. Trick is not to get stuck there. Frank - reread Gray. Important now.
Yes Frank, throw down the weapons. Be you at the trial and you will win, as Maximus did. And remember that you will win REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME. Your kids will win too by the example you will set. They will know.
That is what a Better Man is. You are that man. Be that man - in the face of serious odds. I know you will.
Sorry I could not meet you in Mongomery but it is over 3 hrs away and you could not stay over. But I look forward to the day we do meet....
Strength and Honor.
All...I am in Charlotte Airport awaiting my connecting flight to Montgomery AL. I am taking a one day course/seminar on a particular graft I use in my practice. It is grey and dreary outside. I am no staying long, only for a day.
Nasty morning at home. STBXW accuses me of 'undermining her as a parent." D6 was screaming to let me drive her to school. Separation anxiety even tho' this trip is only for a day. STBXW wouldn't let her go since this was occuring when D6 was having issues with STBXW.
I finally just said, "W...let it go....just let this go." She refused initially...then...relented....accusing me of 'molly coddling' and undermining her as a parent. I drove her to school. She wouldn't let go of me.
Last night at my one on one parent teacher conference, I decided to just let all this D stuff go and I focused totally on S9's report card, performance, etc. The 'worst' that I said that S9 has had a very difficult year at home (the teach knows we are going thru a divorce) and that D6's recent seizures were rough on him. I thoroughly knew my son's performance, weaknesses, strengths and discussed how to tackles some of his talking in class with the teach. It felt good. Later, I met up the principal and asst. principal in the hallway along with D6's teach and I had a great conversation. The asst. principal has not had any more abdominal pain since I took her appendix out.
I think....I'm .....better.
I spoke with my L yesterday. I trust her and still feel strongly that she knows what she is doing. I am up against very tough odds here and if I lose...for which the chances are great....I will have less parenting time than any other man on this website. It's what they award in NY. I may not even get time during the week.
FIB
Safe landings and ...stay strong!
K
You've gotten some great advice here, and you sound good, so I will only commend to you the following book:
Spiritual Divorce, by Debbie Ford
Maybe it will help.
Travel safe, BA
Alabama...was COLD. Brrrr. Jeff...I DID try pickled okra and sweet tea but was reluctant to eat moonpies. LOL. The main joke was about AL red clay.
STBXW threatened me with calling the police when I returned home and came upstairs to unpack and go to sleep. She was sleeping in the bed when it was my week in the MBR. I went downstairs to the couch after her threat.
Not much to add. Spoke with my L. I DO trust her. I DO believe she knows what she is doing (doing matrimonial for 35 years, keeps on top of all new rulings, spoke on radio, defends mostly men, nickname is 'the barracuda'). Unfortunately, NYS is not much different from AL: "the kids are better off with mommy."
FIB
FIB - define cold. Is that like below 50 degrees for you? lol I've ridden horse in AL and got a sunburn and then had to cover it up with downfilled parkas! Someone got me one of those red clay tshirts - Alabama dirt shirt.
I've been on Long Island too in a winter parka.
Although your life is not easy street at this point I think you could help yourself a little by thinking more about what will be good in your life to come rather than dwelling on negatives. Yes, I do know how hard that is.
PMA. Please?
WCW..that's a deal..PMA. Cold? I think Montgomery was in the late 40's lol. Not cold by Long Island terms but in the south I was surprised.
Last week, our son asked me to see if we could connect his XBox to the internet to play against his friends (XBox Live). We read the manuals. I have an unused router upstairs. We did it together while I taught him about routers, internet, connections , etc. Later that evening, in front of the kids, STBXW asked me what a TV was doing up in the office (our old 1993 TV)? She created a scene when told about our project. She told S9 'No...this wasn't discussed with me' and crushed our son. She blamed her response to him on me....that not talking about it with her was wrong.
Today, my son told my STBXW to "stop ordering him around".
I don't bask in this...I'm just sad that she can't "see it". What others have said here about shooting oneself in the foot, I think, is starting to show signs of occurring.
To all....this Thursday, Dec. 03, is the first date of trial. This has been thrust upon me. Not even sure HOW we are going to pay for this. I"m sure there will be some pre-trial stuff where the judge urges a resolution beforehand. Knowing STBXW, she has dragged out ALL prior legal things, will not listen to any judge and push this thru. I will do my best to keep my head up, stay cool and present things honestly without malice. Sadly, the system is stacked against me and I'm SURE my STBXW is going to try and shred me in front of the court AND she will have her whole family there including (I bet), her brother in his robes.
Thanks for all your support through the years. FIB
ISLH....Jeff223....Bworl....DonH....nicola (princess_nic)...baseballannie...WCW.....25yearsmlc....Jack3beans...kevmac...sunflower23...Alaska....frank_d....4kids....honorable mention for AV8R...mulesqb.....lissett.....always_24....cindy....kerryK...cire2....SOTS....Was2sad..........ford.....OnHoldAZ
Recalling.....
FIB
Good luck Frank, be prepared for the worst but dont loose your faith.
K
I do hope it is all resolved this Thursday.
<sigh>
Let's hope this is over soon. It's time.
I will pray.
besos,
BBA
thanks all. Thank goodness for my blog here. Head up. Shoulders up.
My atty is so on the ball. She called me to just prep a bit. She told me a judge recently ordered joint custody in NY when only sole can be awarded. It was appealed and his order was upheld. It may be a precedent. We'll see.
I found all of you in July '06. Filed in Dec. 07. Finality is here. Such a long road it's been. Will update. Crap. Should probably Twitter. LOL. NOT.
FIB
You know that many of us here will be thinking of you....
Hey Frank! Long time no speak. Just wanted to chime in. And offer support.
Men can win in NY. Every case is different.
Time to shift your focus. What's the worst possible outcome?? Very little parenting time, right?? You already know that. What's the best possible outcome?? You haven't discussed it much. But it is very little parenting time for her. I don't come here much anymore as it brings up a lot of memories. But you were always one of my rocks. A couple of phone calls you gave me early on really helped get me focused on the right track. I trust that your L is a good one and knows what she's doing. I just want you to think long and hard about what you want. And then start playing some offense here. You have nothing to lose but plenty to gain. And the deal you come out with is the one you have to live with. So don't leave any stone unturned. Not at this point. The "disruptive" issue is easily solvable by incorporating a parenting coordinator who can make recommendations for that. What's best for the children in your case is clearly more time with you. Your L needs to focus some attention on that and then drill away at it.
Do the kid's have an attorney?? If not, they should. Because your 9 year old son is old enough to voice an opinion through their lawyer. And he is clearly on to to your STBX's lunacy. The unfortunate thing is the cost for all this. Only the L's get rich and we are left to somehow make good with them and then start another life. Right. Too bad some of the L's can't try that in this economy. Unfortunately that is part of the collateral damage.
My point here is that clearly your kids are most important to you here, so you need to focus on that and take your best shot. Honestly, I was lucky. When I went hard after my kids, my STBX backed down. I don't think yours will that easily, but there are other ways to do this. And that will involve children atty/parenting coordinator. But I think a good L in your sitch can make a great case for you. I will pray and pray that happens Frank.
Don't worry anymore about what STBX rejects/accepts..it's her L now who is running the show and advising her. It's strictly biz from here on in.
I also want you to know there is life after all this. To update you, I have met a wonderful woman who I have been seeing now for 5 months this week. She went through a very similar situation to mine. We could finish each other's sentences and have a connection that I just can't believe. We both have full custody of 3 boys..yes a modern day Brady Bunch. I'm sorry I haven't stayed in touch. My situation got incredibly bizarre. Maybe we can talk soon. I'm praying for you Frank and thinking good things. Stay positive, sometimes you can be surprised at how things don't go as expected.
And as always continue the journey with Strength and Honor. As you always have. Your kids will never forget it and learn from it. That's one thing I have found out and has come out the last few months.
Your friend,
Mules
FIB, Just wanted you to know you are in our thoughts and prayers. Keep your head up and, as Mules said, continue with Strength and Honor. You're a good man, FIB, and a wonderful father!
Deb
Trial Day 1
Spent most of the morning in the hallway. Best buddy showed up to support me. Atty told me that"in her 26 years, she never had a client this well prepared. You write well." Well...thank DB and it's archives. Attys in chambers.
FIB
Thanks mules and Donna_Found. Comes down to protecting myself and my kids. I didn't ask for trial. It was rammed down my throat. FIB
PS...thanks for the outpouring of love and support from all. Hugs to all of you.
I'm with you too man. Fight the good fight.
Judge ordered us out to hammer things out. No agreement yet on equitabl e distribution and CS. Judge has labelled me as a wealthy doc, doesn't believe my tax return and threatened to impude my income.FIB
Can you're lawyer do anything about that at all?
Last 7 years of taxes?
HR is supposed to keep your pay stubs for at least a couple of years FIB.
I am not sure what "impude my income" means.
The judge should have first ruled on the custody schedule before diving into financials.
So, I guess first your lawyer should try to get STBXW's lawyer to agree that your income you have presented is correct. Other than that, you will need to do as J3B suggests to prove in court that your tax return gross is up and up.
Since you are honest about your financials, let the judge do whatever he wants!! Pffff, I am so confused with all the different laws in all the states over there.
Hang in there Frank!
Maybe we should turn up as witnesses. I know a lot of us would be by you at the hallway if we could.
Hugs
K
holding good thoughts Frank and saying prayers
Frank,
am sending longer message to you but for now, just sending hugs and hopes and prayers...
Let the truth come out and make sure the judge can distinguish you from the rich guys who have lied in his court and hidden assets. IT happens and this judge knows it. What he does not know is that you are a man who worked hard to get where he is, and had an awakening; you married later in life so your hard work to become a surgeon was something you used to help people and provide A lifestyle for your family, but not to enslave you or keep you from your kids. Don't let him lump you into the wrong group. You probably earned near what the judge earned...so don't over apologize and even if you earned a teacher's salary, SO WHAT??? Don't get punished for having balance in your life.... Get those numbers straight, as I am sure they are AND make sure the judge believes them and isn't rolling his eyes planning on teaching you a lesson when he rules on custody...more later.
Remember your bottom line message and stay on it: The judge gets a 2 for 1 by ruling for you to have custody. Why? B/C unlike their other parent, You will allow their mother reasonable visitation and you are not threatened by her being in their lives. You know mothers have value....Your love for your children will ALWAYS outweigh any negative feelings you may have for your wife and that, Frank, is why you are the better parent. And the better person.
hugs...Big hugs!!
((( )))
j-
Hello Frank..
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.
You're a good man and father.
Focus on the positive, what makes you a loving father, a man of integrity. Project that. Succumbing to fear cripples that message.
Be the man who everyone wishes was their father, because, you are.
*hugs*
Frank - they did that with me also and sent a forensic accountant in. Once the FA sees you're on the up and up it's actually an asset. The judge will then respect you haven't tried to hide anything. Hang in there and believe in the system. You'll be fine.
Strength and Honor.
Mules
Thanks all. The judge ordered a deposition for 12/16. So, again, I am waiting for a list of financial documents that her L wants. Ugh...thought that part was over.
I am not hiding anything. Throughout the day, STBXW insulted me in front of both atty's and the LG who, btw, is clearly on her side. Honestly tho', we got thru parenting time without an issue. She was willing to give me 2 dinners midweek and 3 weeks summer. She wanted to rotate religious holidays, claiming she DIDN'T convert back to Catholicism and promised not to change the kids religion. I won't fight that.
The hitch is equitable dist, CS and maintenance. She wants it all. The LG looked at what 25% of my last year's AGI and said NO JUDGE is going to agree to a low number like that....that he would impude my income. My atty argued that it is law. LG said he could order more.
LG: "If I was able to, I would have the maximum amount of money ordered all the time because the kids benefit from it tho' I can't/won't do that to you."
A lot more crap after. Left courthouse at 445. Couldn't sleep last night. Thoughts of not being able to make payments and having my medical license suspended.
FIB
Frank,
stop thoughts of you losing your medical license for this, right NOW! That's nonsense. Trust me on this b/c it's one topic I do know and you ain't losing your medical lic for THIS...please...at least let that fear go.
As for the judge
IMPUTING more income (sorry, I used to teach English Comp & can't help myself...) hey he can try all he wants. He'd have to impute, at most, either the average of a surgeon in your specialty, OR the highest salary you earned recently, (and the time frame for "recently" is debatable)--leave that to your L to tell you about...he's not going to choose the highest earning guy at Mt Sinai and say "That's what you SHOULD earn, even if you never did before"....and your L will tell you what's worth losing sleep over and I'm telling you that losing your med lic is NOT going to happen. At least not for this. Frank, I know doctors AND defended them, who did some pretty wacky weird BAD things, and most didn't lose their licenses...let go of that fear...enough said?? Takes a whole lot more than a divorce c/s issue to do that and if you could not pay the c/s, if you really could not, taking your lic away only makes it harder for you to pay. NO one is going to break the dinner plate...
But what's bugging me the most, other than how your w gets to bad mouth you and ...what's your L say to all that? Is anyone going to ask the kids about their wishes, or do they wait til they're 12/14?
Anyhow, To hear your w's people tell it, it's as if your w put you thru the schooling and training to get to your earning capacity, (which she did NOT do) AND as if it's a long term M (which it is not) AND oh
btw, if money is so important to the LG and she'd LIKE to give more to the kids, save her the trouble of breaking the law to do so, and give YOU custody!! Incidentally, did you ever make significantly more and then when the troubles began, take an income dive? Is that what they're suggesting or just that you are hiding assets? (BTW, Fraud could cost you your lic but hey, I KNOW that doesn't apply but maybe that's what you heard someone say happened....but again, N/A to you!)
HUGS again. Your next hearing is the 16th? Okay, that's Beethoven's birthday...don't know if that bodes well but he wasn't a dad, therefore he paid no child support....so, see....SEE???!!!! IT'll all work out.
Frank, remember, stay on message...if that message gets through, you will prevail....so stay focussed on what matters...
j-
Frank,
Maybe I am a bit late with this question but I am going to ask it anyway. I know that infidelity is not a reason for Divorce in new York, but have you made it clear to the judge that you filed because the infidelity kept occurring? I am wondering if they are viewing you in this way because you were the one to file.
As far as the GAL goes, just keep being a stand up guy and let your wifes actions in front of her speak for themselves. I would not however hesitate to point it out. If she is being a bitch to you in front of the lawyers, let her now just as you would at home that you will not stand for it and she needs to be respectful. Slide it in there that she cannot speak to you like she does in front of your kids. Get your shots in and make them count.
Ian
Ian, I don't think he got to bring that up...fwiw.
Crossing fingers for you Frank...and by the way, I DID SKYDIVE for the big b-day and I'm alive b/c the chute opened and it was all worth it...and I SO wish I'd done it earlier. What a BLAST!!
So take what you will from that experience...
((( j )))
Hello buddy!
Crap, so much to digest, eh?
Stick with your gut!!!
To all...thanks again for your continued support.
To 25...thanks. I don't think I want to skydive. Why? If the chute doesn't open, you'll have 2-3 minutes to contemplate that final moment and also to kick yourself for not staying home in front of the TV watching the morning news.
To Ian....as you know, infidelity is NOT a cause in NY and although Val confessed ONE to me and I have a smoking gun for 2 others, I don't have photos. Not sure how that works but if I am questioned about it if/when this goes to trial, I will discuss it.
Back to 25....I printed out two graphs...one of practice income...the other of the income from the wound care group I am with. Both show a parallel decline over the years. An 8 month forensic appraisal of my practice did NOT conclude there was anything else going on. Trust me. There is nothing to hide.
I will be deposed on 12/16.
It feels like everything is stacked against me. It seems like NO one can see STBXW as she really is. Tough times.
FIB
FIB,
(sigh)
Since all you can control is how you are seen, focus on that. Don't assume that no one can see through Val, but who cares anyhow? It's you that matters and again, you're all that you can control. Someday your kids will be able to speak up for themselves and they know the truth, or will be able to articulate what their needs are. I hope your son gets asked something in private...hasn't he actually said "mom is nuts today" or literally used that word in some way?
Once this is over, you'll be more free than you feel now. I know you fear involuntary servitude for eternity, but first off, that's actually what you are in now, and 2nd, once free of the energy draining force that stbxw is, you'll find a lot more peace and IMO, you'll earn and do more. Your energy will increase and you'll do more than overcome this. YES I know no matter how this turns out, you're getting punched in the stomach. If it's any consolation, I don't think Val is having a party much herself. Don't know what her L is telling her, but she will be the ultimate loser in this financially. Even if you pay alimony, it won't be for very long. And then where will she be? Oh wait, that is NOT your concern.
Remember that "victory" in these situations-- cannot be measured by how miserable or happy the stbx is. It is ALL about how you do. Don't forget that Frank.
And don't give up the ship yet. I am not surprised that you think things are stacked against you b/c no judge is going to show his cards yet, to the extent he has, he simply doubted your numbers. Now he'll have them for real and he'll have to accept them. If he sees you for the parent you are, and reads between the lines, and knows there is NO OW (i.e., you are not trading in Val for a younger model--the classic cliche that he may fear) then he'll probably get a glimpse of the realities here. Your involvement with your son's team and the activities you do with the kids....hey, what's YOUR L telling you?
That's valuable. For now, try to lose the fears.
((((( j- ))))
I'm going to make a guess that might at least help your outlook. I'll bet STBXW is feeling the cards are stacked against her, as well. You are each going to be seeing and hearing things from your point of view. It's like fans watching a game, and at the end, fans of both teams are convinced the officials were favoring the other side.
Hi Frank,
Nothing much to add to what 25 says. Man that lady sure can write some good posts!
I hope there is clarity come Dec 16. Then you can physically detach yourself from the insanity of being around your XW. It will do wonders for your outlook.
I agree, 25 is my favourite!!!
Hugs to you Frank. I want this to end (favourably) for you sooo much!!
K
S' agapo- LOL!!!
Remember that "victory" in these situations-- cannot be measured by how miserable or happy the stbx is. It is ALL about how you do. Don't forget that.
Sounds good.
Great posts. The house will have to go up for sale after the holidays. Classic divorce stuff. Very sad. But..it IS a gorilla on my back right now, so, it has to be done.
With the holidays upon us, my practice is virtually dead. Forced myself to go to the holiday OR party last night. Left early. I could feel the 'stares' and 'see the gossip'. Went home and wrapped gifts.
FIB
Hey Frank..
Folks aren't necessarily staring or gossiping. The ones who know the situation look to you to let them know how to respond. Others might not really care. After all, it's your train wreck, not theirs.
I controlled how folks reacted me to based on the boundaries I set for myself.. demurring rumors, not calling him names or letting others do it and taking the high road. The less gasoline I gave to the fire, the less drama. Of course, that didn't stop me from fuming like crazy with good friends who were quite adroit with 2x4's.
It's amazing how interesting talking about the weather can be when emotionally stressed. Good job on going to the party! And putting the house on the market is a good thing.. even though it's taken me forever to get there.
*hugs*
We should have a tri-state holiday fest of DB'ers.. now that would be fun!
*hugs*
I'm telling you, I would be in...
Count me in. OK..so ...deposition is Wednesday AM. Of course, her atty waits until today to fax the document list that he wants. Of course, he fax's the boilerplate list of everything under the sun: every piece of paper that I've ever collected and my Calvin Klein boxer briefs.
No way could I ever bring all that. I have some good stuff that I graphed, etc.
STBXW is still hostile to me. Left for breakfast with the kids on Sunday to take them to IHOP. Left her phone home. Doubled back and accused me of taking it (NOT). She's lost it three times and accused me 3X.
This needs to get done.
FIB
For what it's worth...Wednesday is a new moon so hopefully the craziness will be at a minimum.
FIB--
YOU are a GOOD man....a verry good MAN. So may you heal very quickly, may you be fulfilled, may you find the love of your life who is so thankful to have found you, and may your children be filled with joy as you are.
Like Gypsy....I doubt that many are gossiping and staring....people are usually so much more focused on themselves...and more likely to feel WITH you....because they've experienced the crappiness themselves.
You will rebuild a business and it will thrive. Or you will work for someone else and be very successful. No worries. Be at peace...you made a good decision.
your friend,
sg
SG...thanks so much for stopping in on me. I've said before that when you swim in someone else's cesspool, you come up stinking. Many of the DB'ers here don't know how lucky they were that their WAS's punched out and left them quickly. Trust me....if you don't think that after awhile with the constant attacks...well....
Just a statement...the kids gave me my gift the other day: 2 $25.00 ties, a $30.00 shirt and a coffee mug with their pix on it. Now why would she spend nearly $100 on me (er..the kids).
No need to answer that. Wait...I know...BABYSTEPS. ROFLMAO.
Deposition tomorrow. Wish me luck.
FIB
PS....I'm so sorry that so many people have to suffer through this. My kids are going to be crushed when the for sale sign goes up.
Thanks Kalni. Stay strong. FIB
I am, no worries about me. I am a stuborn, "deserving what she will get" Greek. Take care of yourself and dont be afraid.
K
<<PS....I'm so sorry that so many people have to suffer through this. My kids are going to be crushed when the for sale sign goes up.>>
Hey Frank,
It has been my experience that we as parents can seriously soften the blow to our kids with our positive attitudes toward all this crap.
I am confident that you will do the same and your kids will not be affected as harshly as you think.
Hang in there!
I'm with john210. They might not care as much as you think. Make it fun for them and/or a new adventure and they might even enjoy it.
Hey Frank..
At first I couldn't stand the idea of not being in the house. After all, it was home, where the kids had lived the majority of their lives. Putting it on the market in the end seemed a practical thing to do.
I thought.. I do love to think..
If during the marriage my former spouse had lost his job, we'd move. If we couldn't afford it, we'd move. What's different about now is that there is no 'we'. At least for me it was an underlying reminder of yet another layer of security that leaves with divorce.
When we moved up to this lovely spacious home, the kids complained.. really complained. They missed the old basement and the great climbing tree. And they moaned for years! Make a list of what you all would like in a house, yard, make it an adventure. Zip them through a few open houses and listen to their reactions. I told my daughter she'd be able to have her new room any color she wanted.
Selling the house is a reminder of losing the home, what it represented.. an intact family. But in the end, as folks say (and what I'm looking forward to), you have a new place starts with the memories you make, with your children. Less baggage, new beginnings. A positive mental attitude makes all the difference.
Donna, Frank and other DB'ers... let's pick a place and date for the festivity.. I'm willing to host it. I live on the most eastern end of Fairfield County. Or we can all meet somewhere more centrally located.
*hugs*
Along the same lines, it took SO long to sell my house in this dismal housing market that my fiance and I STRONGLY considered just buying my ex out so as not to take a bath on the transaction. But we mutually decided that since both of us were bringing children into the new relationship that we didn't want any hint of "this isn't your house, it's my house" and all that, that we dumped it and found a new place where all the kiddos have their own space and they love it.
Rest assured, blended families require lots of adjustments, but hey, love finds a way.
Good Luck Frank!! I will be thinking of you today. Keep us posted.
xxx
K
Thanks all. I'm up for a get together when you guys are.
Relief...went well. As I walked out of the room, my atty took out a yellow legal pad and scratched on it "A++".
It was a waste of time. The one thing that I was able to do was to show with graphs how everything was going straight down, even BEFORE the divorce. He picked on really minor stuff. He requested that I send him the world (2009 credit card receipts, legers, names of all docs that refer to me, insurance companies with provider numbers...everything short of my Calvin Klein boxer briefs.)
He asked about whether I had made attempts at other jobs. Of course. Most people recall the job offer I pursued in NY a while back. They asked about a job offer in Maine. Gawd....it was a headhunter postcard that came in the mail that I joked about as being cool at a time that I was still hoping that we might reconcile.
Of course, STBXW nodded, rolled her eyes, "I knew it" looks, throughout...
Atty: "why does she hate you so much?"
I held steady. Really....it was fruitless since I have already gone thru a 9 month forensic financial appraisal. It's quite clear..it's all about money. My atty felt that it was just to rattle me, that it was a waste of time and money.
I'm OK. Thanks for all your support. Looks like nothing until after the holidays. So..going into the 3rd year.
FIB
I have no idea how these things work on your side of the world. Here, men get away with paying practically nothing 95% of the time. No rights on pension, etc...
It seems year 3 will be it Frank. Start thinking of all the good things coming your way.
xxx
K
So the judge made no rulings?
Thanks all. I'm up for a get together when you guys are.
Relief...went well. As I walked out of the room, my atty took out a yellow legal pad and scratched on it "A++".
It was a waste of time. The one thing that I was able to do was to show with graphs how everything was going straight down, even BEFORE the divorce. He picked on really minor stuff. He requested that I send him the world (2009 credit card receipts, legers, names of all docs that refer to me, insurance companies with provider numbers...everything short of my Calvin Klein boxer briefs.)
Well which is it? Boxers or briefs?? Of course he asked for everything...it's the paper war. I used to object routinely that those motions for discovery were unduly burdensome, harrassment, etc and 90% were, and fishing expeditions...whatever...
Also Frank, about moving...we were military and we did it SO MANY TIMES and the kids adjusted mainly based on our attitudes. Honestly, how we handled it had a huge effect on how they looked at it until they were in middle school and then it got harder. Before 5-6th grade, not much of a problem. They're flexible and interested in new places and new bedrooms, etc. Plus you won't be leaving for faraway and when I say we "moved" I mean different states, different hemispheres and obviously new schools...MOVING IN HIGH SCHOOL SUCKED SO MUCH, I REFUSED TO DO IT AGAIN, to our 2nd child and that was one more reason I stayed here when h left; to keep the promise. Good thing too. The friends they make in high school, CAN be life long. I have about a dozen friends from HS I keep in touch with at least monthly, (but I'm a chick and we do that more)...3 years in one place got to be crucial but again, that was only after they hit about the age of 13...
He asked about whether I had made attempts at other jobs. Of course. Most people recall the job offer I pursued in NY a while back. They asked about a job offer in Maine. Gawd....it was a headhunter postcard that came in the mail that I joked about as being cool at a time that I was still hoping that we might reconcile.
Oh that detailed offer you selfishly refused?? I LOVE the postcard "job offers" my h gets weekly. "Great job with Great PAY and GREAT SCHOOLS!!" (and sometimes the pay IS GREAT) but then you try really hard to decipher exactly where the job is...and you can't...the details are sketchy at best and it's not always to be discreet...it's too lure you into a talk about an area you'd never otherwise think of living in...but OTOH, the best pay h ever got was a job I found for him in an argument we were having about why he didn't HAVE To live up north. It took an hour on the internet, and he said he didn't believe me, (I pretended to be him on the internet) and after I sent a message, they frickin' called him up that night and we flew out a week later and then moved there....yeah, it does happen. IF YOU WANT TO MOVE...if not, oh well. Choices = trade offs. How much $$ is enough? I urge you and everyone to read the book "Your Money Or Your Life" to put it in healthy perspectives...happiness curves with salary increases to a point, b/c WE DO have to have our needs met...and a fun thing or two also, but more than that can give you diminishing returns...
Of course, STBXW nodded, rolled her eyes, "I knew it" looks, throughout...
Atty: "why does she hate you so much?"
I held steady. Really....it was fruitless since I have already gone thru a 9 month forensic financial appraisal. It's quite clear..it's all about money. My atty felt that it was just to rattle me, that it was a waste of time and money.
Did you answer the question or not? God I would have brought out a 10 page list and read out loud the reasons SHE has given you over the past year, starting with the time she called you satan in front of the kids...yeah, that really ought to be the first reason...
I'm OK. Thanks for all your support. Looks like nothing until after the holidays. So..going into the 3rd year.
FIB
You win longest crazy divorce...so far! Sorry Frank but if your L said "A+++" I can't help but feel hopeful...do you?
((( j )))
Hey Frank..
Congratulations on a job well done! It's hard for lawyers to argue against hard facts. And judges love real numbers.
I never made it to the deposition stage, but the former spouse's exorbitantly expensive lawyer had me digging out five years of anything that looked remotely financial.. credit cards, bank statements, IRA, household expenses.. on and on. All I know is that I went through at least one big warehouse box of copying paper and zounds of ink cartridges to meet the demands along with the endless amount of time it took to complete it. I, too, thought it was a technique to wear me down.
And at this point it IS all about the money, but you know that.
Are you on Facebook?
*hugs*
FIB, do you and your atty make your W and her atty provide gobs of information as well? is there a tit for tat going on?
When I was a kid I remember moving from place to place as Mom tried to create a better life for us. Mom's attitude was what made the moves something to look forward to and I don't remember ever being sad about what we left. Building a new future!
Maybe some day your W will grow up and act like an adult and it will make parenting easier in the future. Until then, keep being a real adult and keep your chin up.
BTW, I bought myself some Crest Whitestrips. I thought you'd get a smile from that tidbit of information!
To all...you made me laugh.
To KerryK...no rulings. The attys will go back and forth now.
To 25: boxer briefs. C'mon...get with the program. They are shaped like boxers but fit like briefs. LOL. 25, my L's plan is that she is NOT going to try this simply on maintenance and CS. If they can't work this out, she will try the WHOLE case and her argument to her L is 'do you really want to risk your client's ability to have custody'? My L feels that there is a lot of damaging testimony. However, put that in perspective with the State of NY, a middle aged Italian judge that looks like Martin Scorsese and the axiom here that 'the kids are better off with mommy.'
To Gypsy...I am on FB. I am linked to most people following here. Yeah...he is going to submit a list of things a mile long that he wants. My atty, after, told me to take my time with it and laughs at it.
To WCW...hey..go for it. There is nothing wrong with wanting to stay looking as best you can. I'm going to be single soon. I intend to look the best I can for my future companion.
Anyway, the verbal attacks continue. I was doing a defensive driver course online this weekend when STBXW comes into the room and out of nowhere, begins to attack me. You can all imagine things said: I've bankrupted the family and lowered our level of living; I'm immature; the house is a mess so it's my fault (she has not done any housework); she is not going to do any more housework and that I will have to hire a cleaning person (last time I did that, most will recall that STBXW called the police on me when I had a cleaning woman come to the house to give us an estimate).
I cleaned the toilets last week. I do 3-4 loads of laundry a week. I fold. Do all the pet stuff. Make the bed every morning. Oh sheesh. No need to type this crap anymore.
OK..WHO...here..is the victim of verbal and emotional abuse?
FIB
<< OK..WHO...here..is the victim of verbal and emotional abuse?
This is all too common. The term "abuse" is much abused. She will throw sh*t at you to see if it sticks. Try to be be alert and calm at all times. Imagine you are doing major surgery when she goes on the attack and you will be fine.
Happy holidays, friend. Focus on seeing yourself past the problem, because *someday*, this craziness will all be behind you. So put your focus on the good times to come, and try not to own STBXW's crazy. After all, all of us have plenty of our own crazy to own.
SD
Agreed SD. I have never pleaded perfection.
Merry Christmas all....and...as they say in The Polar Express, I pray that you all 'continue to hear the bell' as the years go on.
FIB
Happy Holiday Frank. Next year will be better.
Her attacks - just wait until it is over and she is out on her own. No career, only part of your money she is enjoying now, her own house to clean amd clothes to wash. She is a spoiled brat and she will soon discover the value of what she had after it is lost.
Get it done Frank. Stay the high road.
Strength and Honor
Hey Frank..
New Year's Eve.. CT
Be there or be square.
*hugs*
Thanks all. Another nasty outburst in front of the kids and my nephews.
Saturday..my day...cold raining and nasty. I watched my two nephews for my sister. We all went to IHOP for breakfast. Then...across the road to PetSmart. We checked out the animals. Then...to a store with puppies so that they could pet them and see the other animals.
Went home. The boys began playing Xbox...Call of Duty...a game rated M that's been in the house for over a year. I began to play Pictionary with D6 in the other room. STBXW came home and began tearing me a second AH. Falsely accused me of buying a new game rated M (the only games I bought this season were E and T). She took the game and started S9 crying again. In front of the kids, she said, "one of us has to be a parent" after a huge tirade.
S9: Dad....mom's been in the house when I've been playing the game and she NEVER said anything before."
My son later said to his cousin "I hate my mother". Later that night, he didn't even want to go upstairs to get his PJ's. He used hand signals to tell me to go upstairs and bring them down to him. The next day, Sunday, STBXW called me in the evening to tell me that she was sleeping over her parents with the kids. If it was done to 'punish' me, it didn't, as I know that I will be seeing them less soon.
Another horrible outburst done in front of the kids and my nephews.
On a lighter note, as we drove to dinner, my son began to discuss the issue in the car. My 7 year old cousin then said "mutiny is in order."
(BTW...I spoke with S9 re: talking against his mother and told him not to do it. This one was hard to explain away to him tho'. I DID tell him that it was NOT about him.)
Bright kid.
FIB
To Jeff...although 'lonely'..it was peaceful in the house. I am burned out of the constant and typically 'unexpected' verbal attacks, especially since virtually ALL OF THEM are in front of the children.
Happy New Year to ALL.
FIB
I really feel for you son. He is going to have many more conflicts with his mother as he becomes more and more independent.
Just keep doing what your have always done Frank - be the best father for him (and your daughter).
My son and I started out Pinewood Derby car this weekend. We went with the simple one cut design and are painting it patriotic like a flag. Last year we got the funniest car award and hopefully we will get the most patriotic this year. Has your son started on his yet?
KerryK...I just pulled out the plans. LOLOL. We are going with another sort of wedge design and doing a Yankee design. His car made it to the regionals last year and I think came in 81 out of 140 something cars.
The car plans came with 3 designs. Last year we made an American flag type wedge. This year is a much thinner wedge design and will use Tungsten weighting. Do you use a coping saw for cuts?
STBXW is hurting S9 a lot lately....more by the sudden outbursts and removal of video game things. He sees it but I think he is, in some ways, afraid of her. Clearly, they know I am more laid back and more liberal. They DO still love her and D6 seems to have aligned with her during this last outburst. I KNOW it will be better after we split. I DO think that she sees some of ME in our son and , perhaps, she takes some stuff out on him.
FIB
We did a wedge cut and the back 2 inches are flat for the blue and stars. I just had my son use a handheld jigsaw. I dont think he could make a straight cut with a coping saw.
I saw your picture from last year and wonder how you did such a nice paint job. Our first pass last night using masking tape let some red blotchiness bleed into the white stripes.
I painted the car with spray paint....acrylic. The back triangle was hand painted with blue acrylic. Then, I used white pinstriping, 1/4". Then lacquer/clear varnish. Was too lazy to cut out small stars so I used stickies. F
Thanks Frank. Pinstriping it is! Masking tape just does not seem good enough for fine detail painting.
I hope you go your seperate ways soon. This is no good for any of you and most importantly for your kids.
xxx
K
If you start to walk out of the room where the kids are, will she at least follow you? Then it would just be between you two adults...
I painted the car with spray paint....acrylic. The back triangle was hand painted with blue acrylic. Then, I used white pinstriping, 1/4". Then lacquer/clear varnish. Was too lazy to cut out small stars so I used stickies. F
Um, you mean your son did all that right?
Did you ever figure out a way to track the tips and cash that your w gets from her job to know she's reporting it correctly on her income?
Expect the attacks to grow in intensity and frequency until it is over. She is scared to death of her future and the only way to handle that is to dump on you - yes, in front of the kids.
She is sick Frank. So stay the high road and turn that other cheek.
Next up will be Lonely .. capital 'L'. But you will prevail.
Strength and Honor.
DF...no ...she doesn't follow. She attacks in front of the children. Our family counselor told me to do the following:
-I will not listen to this in front of the children. Then walk away.
It doesn't help. All her abuse occurs unexpectedly and usually in front of the kids. It DOES need to be over. STBXW is truly toxic now. Eg:
I texted her yesterday that I sent her an email. The email was with regards to D6 and playing sports, vacations times, etc. Her response:
STBXW: Texting has been fine so far. I don't have daily access 2 my email anyway so it is the most reliable way 2 communicate. And brief and 2 the point is sufficient. If I want to read anything long winded of substance I will read Tolstoy himself. No further email from you are necessary.
Yes WCW....S9 does the car, but, unlike me at his age, he has no interest yet in working with his hands. I don't want to push him nor do I want him to feel obligated to do things I did. I simply try to expose him to many things. For now, he loves baseball so I enroll him in as much BB stuff as he wants to do.
I have the kids tonite so I want to wish everyone a very Happy and Healthy New Year. New beginnings in 2010.
And Jeff.....I'll be OK. The attacks are so bad that I am looking forward to getting this done.
FIB
Many wishes for a Happy New Year, FIB!
Happy New Year, FIB!! I hope 2010 brings you many blessings and much needed peace!!!
STBXW: Texting has been fine so far. I don't have daily access 2 my email anyway so it is the most reliable way 2 communicate. And brief and 2 the point is sufficient. If I want to read anything long winded of substance I will read Tolstoy himself. No further email from you are necessary.
Makes sense from a practical perspective if she can't read email regularly. I have the same issue with XW so I text her so I don't have to hear her voice.
And yes, Tolstoy. She grasps on to that judges comment as if it is a 'victory' for her.
How sad. That kind of anger will eat her alive.
The bubbleheaded bleach blonde reading Tolstoy? Yeah, why don't you do that, Missyma'am, and then 'esplain it to us. That I would pay to see...
Frank, please honor Ms. Batshitcrazyville's request and stick to the texts. And please be sure to use numbers for words when possible.
We wouldn't want to put undue stress those hairproduct drenched braincells.
Perhaps you should try using handpuppets when it's necessary to converse with her.
Happy New Year, Boo...you're due a good one.
besos,
BA
Hittin' the bubbly a little early on NYE?
It's a new year, FIB. Hoping better things for you!
Hey Frank..
Happpppy New Year!
Here's something I want to share.
If I focus on my greatest fears, they happen.
My greatest fear even during the early years of the marriage was divorce. I never made a wedding album because I was afraid if I did divorce would follow. I didn't want to move out of our sweet tiny house because I knew if we didn't we'd be married for life.
We moved, I put together the album at year nineteen because I asked myself, what was I so afraid of.. even after talking to my former spouse about my wacky fears. But oops.. a divorce happened.
Once I knew my husband was really divorcing me, was gone, finito, arrivederci my greatest fear was financial insecurity. Although we had money in the bank, stocks, bonds I was scared to death and petrified. Guess what happened. The former spouse went nutso testosterone fired his reasonable lawyer, hired a big gun one who sucked down $50,000 in one month and twice as much once by the time the divorce was finalized. Oops.. I got that one too. No financial cushion, no savings, house on the market that's not selling. Ouch.
During this entire process quite a few teenagers my kids know have died in preventable car accidents. Horrible, shocking, heart breaking. The first time it happened I said, "That's a pain I never want to know." The second time it happened, I said the same thing. Now, considering my batting average with great fears, I don't go there. I'm supportive to the families, appreciate all the joys, tangles and angst of my own children and am thankful for all I have.
Why? Because if I focus on my greatest fears, they happen.
Instead of living the fear that you'll lose your children, focus on what is great. Keep that in the forefront of your mind.
The Tolstoy thing in my mind is a compliment. I'd want a frickin' Tolstoy operating on me, looking out for me. But if it bugs you, and you've heard three people make a negative reference to that aspect of your personality.. evaluate it. Maybe it's something you can tweak. There's something about 'threes' and learning.
If you look at the injustices of life, you become and/or are a victim. Even if all your actions are noble and honorable. If you cower at your divorcing spouse's tirades, you're the dog who rolls over and submits. Remember, she's just as miserable as you are. Instead, practice being a cat, turning around and farting in her general direction. (Wait.. do cat's fart?)
You are not a weak man. But you are making your way through a very painful process. And I'm sorry.. the state of New York is just sick financially forcing divorcing couples to live in the same house or risk losing it. Give yourself Frank time.
Next time your divorcing spouse brings out the claws do something different. "I understand why you feel that way." Validate.. yadda yadda. It takes two to fight. Pull the wick from the candle.
State your boundary to your divorcing spouse. If she doesn't respect it, don't reward it. Be the dad first, "Hey kids, let's go play in the other room. I'll be right there." Take the big picture approach, drop the rope. Because all the kids see is you fighting. Hug the kids instead. Tell your divorcing spouse that you understand why she feels this way. That is tough and hard and miserable for everyone. And that it will soon be over and you can each live your separate lives. Tell and accept the truth. Then let it go.
One last thing about the settlement once it's finalized. I started getting unhappy, upset about the final outcome. Then I realized I had no control and that no matter how much I bitched and moaned, nothing would change. So.. I decided that I'd gotten the absolutely best settlement ever. After all, it is what it is.. and when I remember that I did the best I could, and got the best possible, I don't go dipping in the bitter pool full of acidic feelings that eat away at my core.
PMA, baby.. Gypsy style.
*hugs*
Frank,
That D cant come fast enough in your sitch. Always thinking of you,
K
Happy New Year dear!
STBXW called the police on me because I refused to bring my our son home from a sleepover playdate that he was looking forward to for a week. . Details to follow. I"m OK. Son stayed. FIB
I do so hope pulling crap like that backfires on her. It is an abuse of the system.
That is great that your son got to continue with the sleepover and I hope he was not aware of the police getting called.
The Police Again
My son wanted a playdate and sleepover with his friend who lives a mile or so away. My night is Saturday. STBXW has Sunday. One week prior, STBXW told me that she was sleeping over her mother's house with the kids. Yesterday, I texted my STBXW that S9 was going to sleepover with his buddy and that I would bring home D6 to be with her.
She said 'no'. My son had been looking forward to this..wanted it....and STBXW has 'no'd' nearly everything I've tried to do with him. This was going to hurt him...BIG TIME.
I said no, that it was my night with the kids and I wouldn't break his heart. You can imagine the texts from her. I won't type all of them but some of the reasons that I "had" to bring him home:
-she was his mother
-she doesn't know the people he is sleeping with (will she after we are D'd?)
-there may be guns in the house (my friend is a law enforcement officer)
I gave her contact info, the mom's name and let her talk with S9 who kept saying "mom, I want to stay over" and then handed the phone to me.Then SHE CALLED THIS MAN. She requested all sorts of personal info from him:
My friend: "Ma'am...that's between you and your husband.....no, I won't tell you what kind of officer I am....ma'am, you're acting completely irrationally. Your son is playing right now and having a great time...ma'am..that's between you and your husband. I'm sorry ma'am....etc......"
STBXW then called the police. My sister who lives across the street from me saw the commotion and called to tell me. My buddy called the local precinct and they said I was fine. I drove S6 home and spoke with the P.O. I told him that she was crazy and irrational, that last year she filed a false police report, etc. My buddy called at the same time and spoke with the officer. He thanked me and waved me off.
My son slept over. So did I..on the couch..just to be safe.
And all.....ALL....because my son wanted a sleepover.
The next day, my son didn't want to leave and was afraid of verbal retribution from STBXW.
Shaken but not stirred.
FIB
Gypsy...great post. There comes a time when you cannot be shoved or pushed around or doormatted anymore. The other night was critical.
This needs to be over.
We need to be apart.
My children need a safe harbor away from her.
FIB
PS...did you guys have a nice New Years?
Dear Lord!!!
The woman deserves the award of the craziest amongst THE crazy! I am sorry Frank. More about your son. Isnt anything/anyone in the f%$*%^ system you can USE to talk some sense into her about the way she treats the kids? The woman is dangerous!
Stay strong
K
FIB,
I agree with Kalni. So hard to believe that there is not some way that these recurring "over reactions", especially her frequent calling of the police, couldn't be used against her in the court proceedings.
I assume you are filling your lawyer in on all of her madness with specifics and details. And hopefully your lawyer is planning how she can best use your stbx's outlandish behavior to your advantage.
What a shame that your children have to experience the ongoing insanity. You know, not every divorce unfolds in such an ugly way. Your stbx is CHOOSING to leave numerous scars on your children by the antagonistic and hateful way she is making this divorce unfold.
If, like me, you believe that ultimately the mean and nasty people of the world get what's coming to them, you have to believe that your wife will suffer greatly one day for the pain and suffering she is dragging your children through.
Her parents must be as insane as she is to not step forward and do something about her. Shame on them.
As for you, standing your ground is really good FIB. Time for you to take charge and do what you know is right and in your childrens best interestes, regardless of what your wife thinks about it. I have to believe that these recrurring phone calls to the police will eventually bite her in the ass.
Prayers for a quick and merciful end to this really horrible situation. For you AND for the kids.
Blessings,
Bill
Thanks Bill and Kalni.
Once upon a time, there was a man who so desperately wanted to save his marriage, who wanted his children to live in the same home with two loving parents, who believed in miracles. He worked so hard to be better than he was...to get help both for himself and his wife...and thought that this achievable.
Over time, he began to realize that you cannot change other people nor can you force someone to stay in love. He began to see that a person that has so much inner conflict and pain that it becomes nearly impossible for them to nurture a loving relationship. Painfully, he saw that some people can be consumed with so much anger and hate, that, it will supercede their love for their children to the point that their actions hurt the small innocent ones. They become unable to put the children's needs first. They desperately need to punish their spouse at all costs. The memories of creating life together, of building a home together, of promises made to respect each other.....are extinguished not much differently than stomping on a cigarette on the ground, grinding it down with their heel and walking away.
Sadly, the actions of the other person begin to destroy you and when, constantly exposed to them, you begin to wither. They poison you even when you have released them to find the happiness they claim they so desperately want. The brush stroke they paint you with becomes darker and thicker and only in shades of grays and black.
I have done my best to do ONLY what is required of me by law to part from my wife. I have tried not to torture her nor to avoid my responsibility of giving her a fair division of what she deserves. Yet, I am still, verbally abused. My son complains that he is not allowed to call me. The police are called when I allow my son to have a sleepover playdate and I am financially dragged to trial that will bankrupt both of us.
Know what?
I still play with my children. I teach my son to do as best he can in school. "Better to get the grades and not need them than, need them, and not have them to do what you want in your life." Last night, he couldn't fall asleep and he came down to me on the couch where I sleep for this week. He told me that he wanted to design video games. We talked about knowing computers, engineering, art work and talked about companies like Activision...at age 9. I encouraged him and told him that he was artistically talented and he could do whatever he wanted in life if he strives to achieve it.
I still give my daughter a piggy back ride down from her bed in the morning to breakfast.
I brush my son's brow at night when he can't get to sleep until he drifts off..and I kiss him goodbye while he sleeps before leaving at 6 AM.
I check on my daughter and make sure her covers are pulled up and kiss her goodbye as well.
I stay a loving father in spite of my wife's wishes to exclude me as one.
As the 4 year anniversary of the "I love you but I want the romance back" approaches in May, I still must struggle to become financially solvent again, but, my children still love me. I still help sick people to get better. And...I am a different person than I was when I was bombed. I do not love the person that my STBXW has become. She has done her work well.
Happy New Year all.
FIB
Hey Frank..
The woman is whirling out of control. Setting and maintaining boundaries does a world of good for all. Consider recording her interactions. When the former spouse would go nutso on me, I'd immediately write an email to my lawyer detailing the conversation, any threats made, date and time. Writing it while it was fresh in my mind was a great way to document those stressful occurrences.
My New Year's Eve was solitary but not lonely. At first I was going to see a movie, then go to the hospital and do Reiki or any of the calming skills I've been trained in. In the end, I decided to stay with my ailing pooch, read a good book, text the kids (who were scattered throughout New England) Happy New Year. One even called minutes after midnight to wish me one as well. It was all good.
Reading about your father time touched my heart, the love and loving ways you're just there for your kids. Here's something I wrote when my children were younger..
The Kiss Never Missed
What a sweet bundle she is, the glow of the nightlight caressing the rounded face of the sleeping child.
Each night before I retire, each child is checked, tucked and touched. The oldest will often have passed out in the middle of a task. How reminiscent teenagers are of two year olds when their steam peters out. An encouraging word and wee nudge is enough to get him going in a lumbering zombie like manner to bed uttering some strange guttural sounds.
The second checked is ten with a penchant for angles of any type. Many times the entrance will have to be perused for booby traps and/or clever inventions created before sleep. It's amazing how insidious and well-placed miniscule Lego's are in a boy's room. The elastic face ranging from gruesome to angelic is relaxed, as the glasses are removed. His knees always lower as the spectacles come off. A kiss on the forehead brings a grimace to his dreams, so a hug soft is given instead.
The last is the youngest, a six year old girl with waist length curly hair. PoohBear with his honey pot bathes her sleeping form in softest light. Many friends of stuffed and velvety demeanor join her in her slumber of innocence and butterflies. So gentle does she sleep, the last vestiges of babyhood evident in how she curls and cuddles.
Every night the soul whispers.. This is the kiss ne'er to be missed. Though each child is tucked and touched, with her a communion exists. Where her brothers shirk or wriggle, she relaxes.
How many more nights will the kiss of the mother bring that final settling before the need for independence asserts itself even in sleep? The kiss to the innocent, the kiss of unconditional love, the kiss of soothing.. the kiss ne'er to be missed completes every night.
How these moments are savored.
K. Shannon
Copyright 2002 2010
*hugs*
Get yourself published, Gyps. You've got the gift of the silver pen.
I agree. Publish it Gypsy. Or submit it to a magazine. FIB
FIB,
(sigh)....God help me but I must admit something struck a chord when you said your son might be feeling her wrath more, b/c he reminds her of you...
I think, in truth, when h and I were at our worst, I did transfer some anger of mine to our son, who was then about 19...every time our son seemed selfish, I would see his father in him.
I also saw that h spent so much more time with son and zero time with our girls, that I could leave parenting of our son, to h, as the girls needed me more and only had "one" parent...but I wish I had seen more to my son's needs b/c some of them were things I was better suited for and he felt rejected by me at times. Which is fair, considering.
Later my r with son improved and regained it's previous closeness. Just b/c my behavior was understandable, it was far from being right. Plus even when son was truly being selfish, my reaction didn't have to be so big, as kids that age ARE generally selfish anyhow. Not always related to h.
To our son's credit,
he brought it up to me to ask me to watch for that tendency... this was after most of the mess had happened and a recon seemed possible.
I'm lucky. All our children are close to me and call often, share their lives with me and our son dedicated an acting award he received, to me. Thankfully H is moving towards the repair of the damaged R's that he has, mainly with our d's, and I hope continues to do so. The kids do love him, but they don't always "get him"...and he's NOT acting out the way your wife is. But he had his moments of feeling like the outsider and...
he was the outsider, he was the "destroyer" at the time, and the kids will know this! It's the truth at times and it'll kill your w to know, if she ever faces it, that the truth is, SHE is destroying what was once very good.
Ever want to ask her if she actually has amnesia about what happened, when and why? OR is it still all your fault? God, I'd be sorely tempted to have so many one liners tucked in my hat, waiting for the time AFTER the gavel is dropped...
I fear Your wife, will never open her mind to the possibility that she has done this damage to HER R with son. So she wont' fix it. When the issue gets raised, as if you are "turning him against her" (10-1 odds she'll say this within 90 days...)make sure to mention that you don't bad mouth her to him --which you are sure is reciprocated by her (yeah).
and I"m sure I'd ask if she will ever assume any responsibility for any R's in her life or are they all related to you? 
Maybe if my son had been angry at me at the time he raised this "transference" as a poss, I'd have reacted differently. Or maybe b/c I had a very good T, I could handle the idea of not being a perfect mom -while still aspiring to be one. All i know is I am thankful we were/are able to speak pretty freely now.
God help your son and stbxw if they never speak of this obvious possibilty and never repair the damage she's doing. (I'd call is a "strong likelihood" that she is projecting onto him, her feelings about you, fyi)...
can you dye his hair HER Color? She'll resent him even more than she does now, and she WILL resent your time with him and ANYTHING you do together that he speaks of...and your poor poor d...God help you all. I urge you to get the kids c, though I think you already are. But it is clear to me, that she is targeting him and may not even know why.
Your wife has a poison in her. I don't know what the antidote is, or the treatment for not getting a vaccination. Seems to me, the best thing to do is act like any other snake is around and avoid disturbing it....But these bites can kill, over time. I hope she's the only victim of the poison but unfortunately she seems hell bent on spewing it. I pray for a resolution soon, for all of you.
And btw, when our alarm goes off at the house and the police come b/c we screwed up and didn't set it right, or were not available by phone, we get "3 strikes" and then we're fined for accidentally and preventably wasting their precious time and resources...
what happens to your w for purposely wasting their time?Gotta go and take care of d12. I cannot wait for this to be over for you. How long NOW?
This divorce is like a child birth marathon process -----but WITHOUT THE BABY AT THE END....Hang in there and again, how long now? I used up my paper chain links and drank the "FIB"s divorce is finally done" bubbly over the holidays...let me know when I can go back to the store and get some more. SHEESH!!!
(( j ))
Nope ... I am not suprised.
Scorched earth policy. Destroy what you cannot have.
I almost expect that phone call from you needing bail money
Uggg ......
Hang in there. It will get better once you have a court ordered child schedule.
Strength and Honor.
Frank,
sorry I missed the call.
This sucks for you, is incredibly wearing...and you surely are tempted to throw in the towel. Did you follow that story in the news about the dad who's wife took their son to her home country of Brazil for the holidays, divorced him and kept their son? He got custody awarded in the US but Brazil said "no the son belongs with his mom (no matter how she got him here)" Then she remarried and then she died in childbirth and the step dad AND GRandmothet wanted custody and got it, at first...."stability of the boy" who knew them better than he knew his dad, though contact was maintained....Think of that man taking 5 years to get his son back from a woman who essentially abducted him...(it wasn't a "custody issue" as the Brazilian Supreme court finally and correctly noted; it was an abduction case and letting the "kidnapper's" family keep the kid b/c it was more stable, though perhaps true, rewards bad behavior and would lead to totally crazy cases in the aftermath...so THAT father got his son and you will too...in some form.
Here's the real thing I want to tell you Frank. Yes you are a good man and dedicated father and that means a whole lot. I think IF you stay true to the best in you, and don't go to the dark (but understandably tempting side) of approaching this horrible situation... iow, don't blow it now...Because then your wife will continue to reveal her pathology . I am not saying be a doormat, I'm saying don't give her ANY fuel. B/C She is self destructing all on her own! No need for you to push her any more b/c she's getting there all by herself....No judge will ignore this type of behavior if it is correctly assessed. That means your L has to present it, with witnesses for instance. I cannot believe that Val thinks this crap will help her cause!! IT will help yours!! Again, if your version is accurate and the judge hears it, OMG....she's a crazy fool.
So far, I agree with your L's take on this. Your wife feels she has nothing to lose with a trial but she's wrong. You are the one with nothing to lose by fighting this..she is a fool. Maybe crazy, definitely stubborn and foolish and whatever else...
So Could your son tolerate some questioning? It's NOT cross examining like they do to adults. They are pretty sensitive as long as he doesn't get crap from Val about what to say or how he ruined things and blah blah blah...My nieces were his age and it did not seem to traumatize them nearly as much as the fighting did and to my knowledge, they liked talking to the judge. They got split 50/50 in the end...Yes, different state.
Are you concerned that your d will feel the need to compensate with your w and "Stick up for her if the boys (ie you and S9) are ganging up on mommy"? Try so hard NOT to fight in front of them and the kids will probably recall you saying things like "let's not fight in front of them" and seeing you try to walk away.
They won't know how huge that is in your favor so keep doing it and hope your w follows you to fight some more b/c in the long run that helps you IF the judge hears of it, and or if the kids report this to the judge...in a horrible way Frank, some of this is actually good news... I'm sad if it portends the future but it may do the opposite. IF she gets slapped hard for this then even if she doesn't lose custody, she may learn SOMETHING...
SIGH SIGH SIGH...your message so upset me Frank...BUT Keep me posted but good grief.
I didn't hear your part about the timing of this process though. What is next now?
(((( HUGS ))))
J-
Thanks 25....what is next?:
-I have to review my deposition and send it in with the supporting requested documents
-L asked me to write a letter documenting how STBXW is hurting the kids and send it to her and also to send to the FC
I am tired...exhausted of this, along with the financial stress.
I agree with you 25. Assuming that the State of NY sides with the mom and, that I have no control on STBXW dragging this to court, then, I have nothing to lose by fighting as hard as I can. As one of my male guru's says, it is my 'obligation' as a father to make sure my kids are safe.
FIB
Another horrible outburst this past Sunday.
D6 had a sore throat last week. STBXW scheduled a doc appt on my day Wed. and asked me to take her. On departing after the exam, I texted her and gave her all the details. STBXW responded...said she was picking up soup and going to stay home with her. She even picked up the meds after I dropped the Rx's off. The text told her that she had a follow up appt. Sat AM on my day.
Sunday AM, in the morning, I told her that her exam was fine, they took a specimen, etc. She went nuts:
- accused me of not tellng her she had a f/u appt
- shouted that NO doctor wants to see them THAT quickly after starting antibiotics (it was for a wheeze..also texted to her)
- she called me a liar in front of the kids multiple times
- she also yelled in front of them to 'get the house up for sale by the end of the month'
Simply journalling. I printed up the texts from my phone, typed up the whole episode and sent it to my L. Something's wrong here.
FIB
Hi FIB..
Sounds like her trigger is your voice... perhaps even presence.
Ouch. Text and email are beautiful things.
Oh yeah Gypsy.anything is worth a fight to her especially if she can do it in front of the kids. FIB
I wonder, given all these outbursts in front of the kids, if you couldn't get a special temporary ruling from the courts to get full custody of the kids and get the heck out of there until the lawsuit is finalized.....this is abusive to both you and the children.
Donna.....I have documented and forwarded everything to my L. If it weren't so funny I would label MYSELF as the verbally and emotionally abused spouse. It's rough...even for me, mostly because it is always in front of the children. Always. I truly wish it were over.
There is NO way I would ever want this woman back in my life. I will miss my home. I will miss the time with my kids. I will miss the financial stability. I won't miss her, her behavior and how she has treated ALL of us. It makes me sick to my stomach...almost embarrassed that I married her. The bad times are quickly beginning to equal the amount of good time.
FIB
PS....compare this to my posts from early 2008. FIB
You are being abused. Your kids as well. I cant understand how the heck she doesnt show any concern about how her behavior hurts your little ones.
So much anger!! I know you dont care but I believe this anger comes from fear. I think she is terrified. And she expresses it with anger.
Stay strong Frank.
K
I agree. She's terrified of losing the kids in the legal sense AND the emotional sense so she is desparate to make you look bad. It's NOT working. That's why she is amping it up so much. She is running out of time to prove how wrong you are and how right she is...and she's not winning. If it weren't so horrible for the kids to see, I'd feel sorry for her b/c she's spiralling and knows she is losing the battle on most fronts and FEARS on all fronts. We'll see.
Stay on track. You are so close now FIB...it really will end. Like pregnancies, even THIS can't go on forever -- even when it seems it will...
((( j )))
Thanks all. My L wrote 2 really powerful letters to her L and forwarded copies to the LG. I forwarded copies of my letters to the FC last week. I was able to meet my kids and STBXW at the FC appt today. FC saw me near the end and, not in these words, basically told me my stuff means nothing in front of a judge and it isn't enuf to get custody. FIB
I am on the train this AM for an interview in NYC. There is an assistant professor opening. I have no choice but to pursue any avenue to remain solvent.
As I sit on the crowded train, I wonder about an impending custody battle that everyone seems to say that I have a snowball's chance in hell of winning.
F
I so wish that New York family law would pull its head out of its ass and take notice of what other states are doing. Shared physical custody works great and is what is best for the kids.
Frank, it sounds like you have resigned yourself to accepting defeat. If you were standing where we are, what would you say to a person in your shoes?
Frank, I dont know if you are familiar with SirPrizeMe's story, but he has now posted a very sad update...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1919547#Post1919547This is a warning. You cant let the system beat you down to the point of giving up.
Maybe FIB could drop by SirPrizeMe's thread. He needs a doctor's help.
I am on the train this AM for an interview in NYC. There is an assistant professor opening. I have no choice but to pursue any avenue to remain solvent.
As I sit on the crowded train, I wonder about an impending custody battle that everyone seems to say that I have a snowball's chance in hell of winning.
F
Well, what have you got to lose? I'm asking sincerely. Maybe there's something I'm missing but your L is a good one you trust. What does SHE say? And I for one, think there is value in fighting for something that's right, even if you lose. Winning matters but fighting is what counts. You want the kids to know you tried and they'll know. If you resign yourself, you quit. Don't quit. If your L tells you it's time to step aside gracefully, that's different. From what she is doing and what you say about your w, you hvae to fight so that when your kids are a bit older, they can choose. They won't know to choose you if they don't know you fought for them. Just my .02. I could be wrong but that's what my gut tells me. I wish NY would wake up too. God...such idiots...
Yes, well as someone smarter than me once said,
"If the law says that, then sir, the law is an ass." Hey, anyone else feeling like getting involved politically? When you get your energy back, we'll chat about that.
And good luck on the job interview. You'd be a very good professor and if it's more stable income...then good. Please tell me you won't have to pay stbxw more...(sigh) Oh, though I so hate to carp -- WHEN IS THIS OVER????
j-
My thoughts exactly J, when will it end??????????
STBXW filed ANOTHER motion...again..to have me thrown out of the house and temporary sole custody. They also filed for contempt of court since I have not been able to pay the $17,000 of her legal fees.
L is not worried. Says this punitive since we are going for full custody. Besides...I was offered the job and she says I should be happy and not thinking of THIS crap. FIB
FIB - great news about the job! What changes will that make for you, if you take it?
And it sounds like she filed for the same thing I was hoping you would file for! She is delusional...I hope this goes quickly. I can't imagine having to live there...
You know who benefits from all her motions, win or lose? Her lawyer!
It's terrible and I can't believe how one gets sucked into this. You start out DB'ing...staying strong...trying hard to reconcile. Then Jekyll turns to Hyde. Someone writes. The other responds. Ugh.
I have one angry and punitive woman here. I have the proverbial "toxic wife". I live with immaturity: my photos of me and my son get turned over or placed behind an object; my laundry gets thrown on the floor; my children are positioned so I can't get to them.....
One a day to day basis, it is difficult to stay calm, steady and not bow down to her level.
FIB
what does your job entail? I would love to be a professor!!! What do these changes mean for you and your kids?
Don't have it yet. Was offered but nothing in writing. I would be in one of the top departments in the country. I am at a disadvantage...age and coming from a clinical backround vs. university.
Responding to her complaint. Ugh. Tired of typing. Mostly lies and distorted truth, as usual. Tired of copying things.
Have to keep going.
FIB
It's terrible and I can't believe how one gets sucked into this. You start out DB'ing...staying strong...trying hard to reconcile. Then Jekyll turns to Hyde. Someone writes. The other responds.
I have one angry and punitive woman here.
One a day to day basis, it is difficult to stay calm, steady and not bow down to her level.
This is exactly something that I could have penned myself, verbatim.
I'm sorry that you're having to go through the crap that you are!
I hope you get the job!!!
Love
K
F@ck her, she will soon be history, at least in some ways... 17,000 for L fees? She is crazy!! (sorry for my french)
FIB,
This stuff just consistently leaves me speechless. I can't even think of how to respond to offer you encouragement except to shake my head, and that doesn't help you much.
It certainly does seem as though she's ramping up as the conclusion to this tragedy unfolds. Shame on her lawyer for allowing her to continue along this aggressive, attacking path. It's those kinds of lawyers that give others the bad name I guess.
I'm happy for only one thing here Frank. At least her actions over this past year have revealed her inner self in a way you might only have seen over an even slower years and years of marriage. Plus, it seems to me that by choosing this path of hatefulness, she has made it that much easier for you to put to rest inside of you the relationship. As you have already said, why would you ever want such a person back in your life?
I'm not sure what the deal is with the legal system in New York when it comes to dads. I should say that I have done a bit of internet searching from time to time after reading your thread. There are father's advocacy groups in New York, and some of them are working diligently to change a system that has unfairly penalized fatherhood as compared to motherhood. I hope your lawyer is aware of them and has at least considered making use of them.
There is also an expert in marital law in New York who specializes in countering psychological determinations related to custody. If there is any chance that the final custody determination will be made based upon any expert profile done by LG or associated psych personnel, I would look this guy up. Don't recall the name right now, but his resume was very impressive.
As with the others, my prayer is for a quick as possible conclusion for you. The relief you will feel from having her out of your life on the day to day basis will be amazing Frank.
Remember this one?
Strength and honor,
Bill
L is not worried. Says this punitive since we are going for full custody. Besides...I was offered the job and she says I should be happy and not thinking of THIS crap. FIB
Wise words.
Frank, I WISH you believed in yourself HALF as much as the people who support you do.
...and talked half as much about your wife. : )
Still to this day, you are the only on here I'd Strangers on the Train for, without the need for reciprocal action. : )
Thanks all. I am fighting.
I have responded to her BS firmly, well written, and that she is a clear and present emotional danger to my kids.
I am still being courted jobwise. I see light..BIG LIGHT....at the end of the tunnel. I hope...it stays there.
House is going to be listed within the next 1-2 weeks. S9 tells me that STBXW is looking to rent an apt/house in the neighborhood.
L is still fighting for me. Notes that STBXW cannot claim any appreciation to the house from improvements unless she can prove she paid for it. L is a bright woman.
It's rough. It's been too long. It is sucking the life out of me and needs to get done. March 15th unless a contempt hearing is scheduled sooner.
I will fight for my kids. I have nothing to lose. FIB
Yep,wise decision. And when you have nothing to lose, then you fight free of fear...
Take those kiddos in the summer and come visit. Maybe you can teach my H a couple of things about Strength and Honour...
xxx
K
Can I bring my kids too? Maybe Frank and I could get a package deal for divorced guys with kids. The cool thing is that the 3 of us all have kids of the same age/gender.
Count me in. If the kids stay home, I want to find that beach on Mykonos...?Platy Yialos???....the super beach.....
Platis Yialos (=wide beach) is very touristic now. But if you come early enough, we will find a little spot to lay our bodies on!! (Mykonos with kids is fine. People there go crazy which keeps their daily schedules completely different than the "family" schedule).
Kerry, you always have an open invitation. Just let me know ahead of time so I can plan days off...
K
Kalni...I don't think the kids would be fine on THAT beach. LOLOL. The other gorgeous beach is Chrissi Akti on Paros. FIB
FIB,
I spent summer on 2007 with the kids on THAT beach. It was fine. Maybe you mean Super Paradise beach?
K
And Chrissi Akti on Paros is where we went 2006-2006-2007 (one week) and a weekend 2009. Hotel Amarylis, not great but on the beach...
K
YES...that's right. First nude beach I was ever on. I remember some gorgeous British girl putting a blanket down nearby and then she started a conversation with me. Suddenly there was this imaginary line/plane underneath her neck that I tried so desperately hard to not let my eyes point beneath. LOLOLOL.
On Paros, in Naoussa, there is a tall hill with a monastiraki. I climbed to the top and there were beautiful views of the island.
Ahhh....Greece....I loved it. FIB
A 'For Sale' sign went up today in front of our house. I feel so sorry for our kids.Pain comes, still....
FIB
Frank -
I feel your pain across a continent on the selling of your home. Tough one. It is inevitable that your kids and yourself (to hell with you STBXW) had to go through a change. I can only hope that the sale will go through quickly like pulling a bandage off a wound. Look on the bright side - you wont be around and have to put up with the toxic person that your former spouse is now.
December 12, 2007 - the day you filed - just a couple weeks before I prepared my own filing. It has now been over 2 years for you on this legal travesty. What is the court timeline?
I hope that soon enough you will be at a point where you can find love and companionship with a good woman and have your eyes gaze below that imaginary line.
Saru mo ki kara ochiru
Kerry
Hey Frank,
I feel your pain as well. My XW still lives in my house....that is another type of pain. It is for sale but we do not want to give it away in this market. My kid is ready for the move. It will be dificult for her when it happens but she is tougher than I thought and your kids surely are as well. You need to leaf and show your strength my friend. If your kids see a happy dad, they will be happy as well. That is my experience anyway....make new memories for them regardless of where you eventually call home.
Saru mo ki kara ochiru?
kali tichi kai dinami. eisai enas poli kalos andras...
filia
M
Frank,
As Bworl, Kerry, Kaini and others have said, you will get through this. Heck, March 15th is what, 6-7 weeks? That is totally DO-able...so we're starting the count down now, (is this year a leap year or did the movie title confuse me?) I want an accurate count--44 days. Let's ALL send Frank prayers and thoughts of peace, strength and honor (of course!) and impenetrability Frank. Do NOT let that woman into your head/heart or soul. Screw her, (no, DON'T!!) soooo, she's soo not worth it and as Bworl said, hard as it is to hear or feel great about, I thank GOD she has revealed her pathology NOW rather than dragging it out over years, in front of or with the kids WHILE preventing you from moving on or meeting a normal woman with normal baggage.
Also, the FC may not know what he's talking about re: the custody issue. But don't take polls anymore, if you are. Just follow your L's advice, since you trust her. Let HER tell you when it is time to accept defeat. My gut tells me that SHE feels if any of her male clients have a shot at custody, it's you. So she's going for it. GOOD!!
44 days Frank...you CAN do this. We're all here for you.
((( )))
J-
PS no frets about the professorial job. Clinical is WAY more "real world" for the students and honestly Frank, I HATED getting med opinions from "Exper witnesses" who had not been in an O.R. in 5 years but "taught" and "Lectured" the doctors who were on the front line. So, tut tut to that.
Gotta go, our beautiful dog has had 8beautiful healthy puppies. D12 said aferwards, "I NEVER want to have kids"...so I guess If you ever want to scare your d away from sex, let hert see a birth. Your d won't want to get near a boy. And maybe you can play a tape of a baby crying "WAH WAH WAH!!" all night, if you son doesn't take the hint...it's like birth control/scared straight all in one.
Take care FRANK!!! 44 days....
j-
Let's ALL send Frank prayers and thoughts of peace, strength and honor (of course!) and impenetrability.
Done!
Gotta go, our beautiful dog has had 8beautiful healthy puppies. D12 said aferwards, "I NEVER want to have kids"...so I guess If you ever want to scare your d away from sex, let hert see a birth. Your d won't want to get near a boy. And maybe you can play a tape of a baby crying "WAH WAH WAH!!" all night, if you son doesn't take the hint...it's like birth control/scared straight all in one.
My oldest daughter was 12 when her little brother was born. She was present for the entire birth and she got to cut the cord. She is now 22 and still says she may never have kids! BEST BIRTH CONTROL EVER!!!!! LOL
And Frank, stay strong and have faith in your L. Prayers are going with you.
43 days...
You're on the down hill slope now, Frank.
Look, I'm going to the Olympics for a few days, and should see some serious skiing.
Frank, The Olympic skiiers are like YOU....going down hill, to the finish line, in style and true to their form, never taking their eyes off the road in front...all so that at the end -- @the end of their grueling endeavor and years long quest/struggle, You can stand tall and say,
I WENT FOR THE GOLD!!
That's worth a medal. We'll address the rest as it comes.
((( hugs)))
j-
Adding Goldey prayers....
Hey, Frank - sending some virtual hugs and warm thoughts....
FIB...
Faith is believing.. and you can do it.
In fact, you are making it happen.
*hugs*
Frank,
Lurking and following.
You can do it.
Be assured of my prayers.
42 days...hey what's that? What? OMG, it is the finish line...I see it!!
This too, shall indeed pass good friend.
Hugs & support coming at you from so many hearts and souls Frank, you can't be that good a liar, you gotta be one of the good guys for so many of us to care this way.
You will be fine with your children, no matter what happens Someday your son, and daughter too, will have the right to choose where they want to be. The Ides of March, the 15th, was originally a festive day of celebration. Let's go with that original take on it and prepare for an ending to this saga, one way or the other. (As opposed to the Caesar assassination that day, memory...)
From my point of view, As long as you/your L make it clear to the court that by granting you custody, the children remain in a "two parent" situation b/c unlike Val, you will allow them to see the other parent as much as feasible. You are the 2 for 1 deal; your wife is NOT.
You want this b/c the welfare of your children continues to be the most important thing in your life and the reason your income is not as high as some surgeons, is precisely b/c you believed that these past 20+ months were NOT the time to remove yourself more from the home and marriage but just the opposite.
That's Just my take on it, and maybe useful for explaining to folks or family who don't "get it". Plus weird NY law factors.
((HUGS!! Big time.))
j-
(((Frank))),
I am thinking of you. I like 25mlc's countdown. I can see the finish line as well. Hope you do too.
love
K
Hmmm...The two for one deal. Be the better choice.
Got me thinking. Although safety is an issue, I must remain mindful that my STBX Hus has a right to have a relationship with our children. Perhaps that is supervised, or not, but I cannot just 'cut and run'.
If the kids want to spend time with him, that's fine. Just not at my place. I don't trust the guy.
I hope that changes someday, and I can find a little bit of forgiveness. Today is not that day.
Thanks all. I notarized a powerful response tonite. If this means nothing, then, I KNOW our system is screwed up.
I see amazing things in my future.
FIB
We're praying for you, FIB. Continue to stand strong.
Lurking also. You are a great dad. Hang in there.
41 days Frank!!!
(25mlc is or will be at the Olympics, I'll keep track of the days)
K
Feb 22, 1980
Lake Placid, New York
Winter Olympics
Miracle on Ice
Only cover of Sports Illustrated that did not have or need a caption/headline:
http://www.murdoconline.net/2008/miracle_on_ice.jpg
I was there. Had 4 tickets to the finals and ended up that it was the USA vs Finland game. I was in college then at a 'hocky school' about 50 miles away from Lake Placid and they closed school for the olympics. A lot of students went to volunteer at the various events.
As a huge Hockey fan of Italain heritage, all I can say is Mike Eruzione .....BABAY!!
Ross Rebagliati is Italian heritage and Canadian!
When they were playing the national anthem during his gold medal ceremony, olympic officials became suspicious when Ross started singing "O Cannabis". They were probably already suspicious when they found out that he was a snow boarder.
Canadian Olympic Snowboard team motto: "Stonger, Faster, Higher"
when Ross was confronted with evidence of his malfeasance and they outright accused him of having smoked pot, he uttered the now famous 'snowboarder's affirmation' of...."well, Duh"...
Yeah Kaini, keep track of FIB's timeline countdown please, God knows we can't screw THAT up....b/c I'll be in Vancouver screaming for the "USA" teams (except when I'm with the Canadian relatives, then I'll fake it...whatevs!)
I read an article on whisky that got me thinking Frank. I believe it is more appropriate to toast you with, than Champagne due to the wisdom it derives from being "aged well, over time" (BUT NOT "OLD"...dear God, never "old"....)
Cheers Frank, we're all rooting for you!
(( j ))
Do you mind, fellas...snowboarders who smoke pot is kinda a touchy subject for me right now. (S16 thinks he's getting out of rehab this weekend, lol) Goldey
p.s. GO SAINTS GO
I think we are down to 38 days!!!
How are you doing Frank?
K
HI all..and thanks for making me smile.
Calm before the storm. My response is in. Atty made a plea that one must prove contempt is 'willful'. We had a lot of financial stuff to prove otherwise and the fact that the house is up for sale is evidence that the judge can order a money judgement.
STBXW still attacks me verbally in front of the kids and always ironically. I did all of D6's homework on Wed. PM. In the morning, we left the reading log to be filled out and D6 rushed it before the bus came. STBXW accused me of 'slacking off' on the kids HW in front of them. As I filled out the form with D6, her night on Monday was not filled out and the teacher put a pink question mark next to her slot.
??????
Me: Don't forget to fill out your slot for Monday
STBXW got pissed and made excuses. Of course, it's always MY FAULT. Bad dog.
STBXW's atty wrote a new letter to my L telling her that STBXW should be part of the sale of the house. My L told me that they are sending me a copy, to ignore it, that the house is separate property (my name alone is on the deed). I am keeping STBXW apprised of all happenings and she got copies of the papers I signed.
Yesterday, STBXW called the realtors behind my back and asked them to meet with her at the house. They called me, of course, to ask my input. Their recs were to meet with her to avoid making her hostile. My buddy 'Anthony' told me to have them cancel it and arrange it when I can be there. I don't see the advantage to this except to piss her off.
I told them no problem but not to change anything without my knowledge/consent. STBXW is trying to take some control here. It is not worth having another motion filed against me nor having the judge see me as uncooperative. It's frustrating, but, isn't the main goal to sell the house? Whether STBXW gets a buyer or I do, isn't the result the same?
Pinewood Derby tonite. S9 designed a Yankee mobile. We made a wedge shape and put the Yankee logo and World Series Logo on it with 13, A-Rod's number...some decals on the side and rear.
I don't know the woman who lives in the same house with me. She is a complete stranger now....angry..vindictive....virtually an enemy.
I'm doing the best I can.
FIB
A-Rod car - Does it have a history of steroid use? Was there no way to get a little "Mr Met" figure on the car?
We had our pinewood derby a few weeks ago. S9 won the most patriotic award. He won 2 races and came in 3rd in another. Not enough to advance to the next round, but we were not going for speed to begin with since there was an eagle and a flag sticking out on top. I will try to post a picture of his car on FB.
Do Your Best!
Thanks Kerry. S9's car came in first for Webelos but didn't fare anywhere near as well as last year. His car is going to divisionals but he had NO interest in watching at all. In fact, he left early for a sleepover playdate arranged by his mom (no...I didn't call the police, lolol).
STBXW met with realtors yesterday. They called me. Said she was fine with them and cried twice. That's the first time I have heard of tears from that woman.
Yeah...selling your home sucks. For the first time, D6 got tearful yesterday and didn't want to sell her home. "Where am I going to put my bed????"
Got very choked up. There are still so many elements outside of the M that cause pain. I still ask myself how I got here...have I chosen the right paths....maximized myself as a man??? Have I handled this the best I could? Am I really doing right by my kids if the courts are against me from the get go?
Huge changes are coming...HUGE. Finality of D. Loss of house. Possible HUGE change in career path. Will all my decisions be correct/good/constructive? I am scared, but, I will not faulter. Only time will tell.
FIB
I've been reading your thread for a while and you've been through a helluva bunch. I'm sorry man. It's hard to imagine that these are the women that we spent so many years with and thought we knew better than anyone else in the world. It's unreal that they are doing what they are! WTH?
HeY FIB, I am follwing along as well and sympathize with you and others.
I read your last post regarding your path. I understand your questions, apprehensions.....believe me. If you can stay true to your beliefs / morals and not be swayed by hatred or fear, your kids will pick up on that and flourish....be their anchor.
Stay strong....better days ahead.
Be their anchor.
Stay strong.
Short, to the point, and spot on!
what those guys said....besides Frank, some of this is irrevocable. Some of it is not. That which isn't, you'll improve upon and your kids will at some point get a better attitude about decorating their new room (they'll have TWO and you can spin that so it doesn't ALL suck for them...we moved 17 times in the military and out, and it is hard but you can take steps to make it easier).
As for your stbxw crying, all I can say is, "at last". I don't mean it vengefully, but I think she MAY realize it's not all about her. Someone else is hurting and perhaps instead of turning that into anger at you, she can feel something for THEIR pain....
hugs and prayers to you FIB, stay strong and all that "guy stuff" the guys said...it's good.
j-
The LG responded. Sum and substance is that tensions are escalating and it is in the best interest of the children to reach a decision. STBXW's request for interim sole custody not supported.
FIB
Thank God there was at least that...
It is normal to questions our paths, Frank. But I think you are on the right one. Look at the last line in your status.
Donna...thank you. You're right. The alternative, her GETTING interim sole custody, would have been worse. Maybe the LG is finally seeing something. ?
STBXW is releasing the kids to me to watch the SB today. OMG. I thanked her 'for making this about S9'.
Stressed out but hanging in. I'm glad I've hung on here this long for all the friendship here. Hugs to all.
FIB
I'm so glad the LG said that but I'm too nervous to celebrate anything. I'm holding my breath now, and I think you know what I mean....but shoot, let's take a moment to say "THANK YOU GOD", b/c you got a little break and maybe even a sign that not all is crazy in the system there. I hate NY law forcing one of you parents to effectively be declared unfit so the other gets sole custody. How do they expect you two to work out visitation? This is so stupid...but at least the crazier she acts NOW, well it is probably the best timing YOU could have picked for her pathology to reveal itself. Weird but sort of true.
Anyhow, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping....what's the countdown? 36!!
Okay, 5 weeks and a day...sending HUGE HUGS and PRAYERS your way Frank.
Enjoy your day. Regardless of outcome, the LG's findings were a good sign. Yay...
(((( j ))))
Finally some good news! And 36 to go!!!
You'll be fine Frank, just fine! You are not Pisches btw are you?
Love
K
Kalni....I am pisces...water creature and I DO love the water/ocean.
I agree with you 25. I don't think the LG's comments mean too much. A woman must be an IV drug abuser murderer to have her kids taken away here in the state of NY.
In Mass., my buddy actually had CPS find negligence on the part of his ex-W. They gave him custody of the kids for 3 months while she attended some course, then, returned custody to her.
Some news in my future I hope. FIB
Hi Frank..
In Connecticut they say the wife has to be a IV drug user murdering lesbian to lose custody of their kids.. but I know some who have even without the above appellations.
I believe bitterness blossoms when you get the outcome you fear. Focus on the best, Frank. You already know and fear the worst. Go for the best.
You're worth it.
*hugs*
Great words Gypsy. I am..will...and do. FIB
Ok Frank, go read what I posted to Dr Love over at Piecing, this IS our year Frank... We dont get many years like this one in our lifetime. It says what started Sep 2007 (when my H moved out) stops now and a new life full with happiness is ahead of us...
K
Hey.. I'm a Pisces, too.. whoo hoo
Can I ask a fovor?
I am trying to build an support system in here and need as much good advice as I can get.
In addition, if you know of any way to tell 25yearsmlc that I would love to here from her on my thread, it would mean so much. She was a great source of help for me about 8months ago. I unfortunately lost internent access and lost contact.
Thank you
Kalni....I am pisces...water creature and I DO love the water/ocean.
I agree with you 25. I don't think the LG's comments mean too much. A woman must be an IV drug abuser murderer to have her kids taken away here in the state of NY. AND CAUGHT ON VIDEO TAPE--LIKE RICH KILLERS HAVE TO BE ON FILM TO GET CONVICTED, IN THIS STATE....just sayin'...
In Mass., my buddy actually had CPS find negligence on the part of his ex-W. They gave him custody of the kids for 3 months while she attended some course, then, returned custody to her.
Some news in my future I hope. FIB
STBX responded and turned everything I wrote back onto me. L says she is vicious...one of the worst she has had to go against...thinks she is crazy...and also now feels that her L is 'churning', or, doing things to run up the bill. Case in point: he wants to depose me AGAIN.
Ugh. Two bids on our house so far.
FIB
Disgusting!
You have my sympathy Frank.
BTW... I am a year of the Rat / Gemini dude.
FIB,
I've figured all along that her attorney saw her coming a mile away and his eyes must have lit right up.
A vengeful spouse of a doctor who needs representation in a potentially nasty divorce?
Please. The poor boy was probably salivating with glee. And I'm not sure your STBX is focused enough right now to realize that he's just fanning the flames.
I hope your lawyer is able to put an end to any future depositions. I can't imagine there is any more that needs to be asked or said at this point.
Frankly, with the way they have played this, I would be disinclined to do engage in any more of their machinations, unless of course your lawyer thought it would make you appear contentious.
The countdown is on FIB. Though I'm sure it's seemed like forever, this will be ending before long. It will come with difficulties, but it will also come with freedom. You won't believe how good it can taste.
Blessings,
Bill
Dang FIB, sitting here posting to you and missed your call.
Sorry.
Remember my friend that not all change is bad. It sounds to me like the future has meaningful and satisfying things in store for you.
Soon the madness will not be in your face everyday.
Stay who you are. The embodiment of what we all continue striving for here in the face of the chaos...
....strength and honor.
Bill
Dang...this is so embarrassing...I mean, the whole L thing just mortifies me so, on behalf of ALL L's OUT THERE who are NOT churners, or worse, I apologize for those who are...
((( j-)))
PS FIB...countdown...27 days? excellent...
j-
Long time minimal post. I've been forced to do things to protect myself that are not in my core values as a man. However, I cannot allow lies to be placed into legal documents without defending myself. I have chest pain having to do some of these things to protect my good self. STBXW cannot falsely place labels on me while guilty of doing the very thing herself.
It's rough.
This must be one of the worst sitch's on this forum. As soon as this is done, I am closing shop and moving on. I DO expect to be in family court for the next 12 years tho'.
There are some bids going on over the house. I'm sick over this. It is such an invasion of privacy...a feeling of violation. It still blows me away how unhappy a person can be to destroy everything in their life. On the flip side, await the future to start anew.
FIB
Your sitch is indeed one of the worst. FLTC, who is in this same forum, has a pretty bad legal situation also. Maybe his STBXW and your STBXW are related.
I don't know, FLTC's STBXW deliberately treats her kids like crap whether he is around or not. At least FIB's STBXW treats the kids decently when he's not around. I vote FLTCs as 'worse'. She is just a mean spirited person all around.
I cant even begin to imagine what else she is making you go through. Frank, she wont have that much control over your life soon. Stay strong,((()))
K
I cant even begin to imagine what else she is making you go through. Frank, she wont have that much control over your life soon. Stay strong,((()))
K
((( sigh ))) what Kalni said....Let it be done. And Frank, as for doing "what you gotta do", well, that's what it's called...and you're right, in your career especially you cannot let libel stand. It can hurt you and there are people who will "Break the dinner plate" to hurt a former spouse even if it means they'd get less money for themselves or kids. I recall a client saying some bad things about her stbxh and when I mentioned he'd lose his license she said, "But he'll still have to pay me the same amount?" And I said I didn't see how b/c these allegations were deal breakers to licensing boards...she withdrew the allegations...I told her I could not represent her anymore so she said "Why? B/C I won't say he abused the kids?" And I said, "No, b/c you lied to me and were willing to commit perjury in court OR b/c you are now willing to let your kids be abused so you can make money and either way, I'm not okay with being your L..."
Heck no, I have No regrets there ...(And I bet her check would've bounced anyhow...)
So NOT fun to do that stuff. FIB, it will end, I promise you that....
But be careful what you say about her...be very mindful of looking spiteful or vindictive and losing credibility now. Being calm and
not fighting tit for tat (whatever the hell that phrase actually means...) b/c it will help you look more mature and credible. You must establish and maintain credibility at this point. It's crucial.
Credibility will matter more and more with time, not less. How's your L feeling about all this?And how's the business and professor job looking?
j-
22 days? Wow, time flies when someone else is being tortured....you can do this FIB!!
It's Jack Bauer time....22 days? Pfooof!! Piece of cake -- after all this time...
That's right, I said after all this time it is A PIECE OF CAKE!!
Start humming your fav song to yourself and getting through each day knowing it's a day closer to purgatorial living being OVER....and your new life just starting. I'm excited for you. Nervous? Yeah sure. But I have a feeling your life is about to begin Frank, you know? It's been on hold for too long now. Your turn is coming. Hang in there. You can do this. You are doing it.
j-
Hey Frank..
As my brother repeated told me..
The best is yet to come.
*hugs*
Thanks all. I thought about going over to fltc's thread but I'm not sure I want or need to read about more suffering at the hands of an unhappy spouse.
I can guarantee all that STBXW will doing EVERYTHING possible to besmirch me and make me look like a bad husband/father. I'm going to have to have a teflon skin. I've seen STBXW in court in front of judges before....they get weak knee'd. Big bad professional hiding money in off shore accounts. Poor blue collar blond haired blue eyed cute mom.
I don't look forward to going under the microscope in public, but, it's a journey I must go thru to close this door. I just want it done and to start over. NY divorce laws really hurt people.
FIB
we hear you FIB...we do. Watch your back.
But don't lose heart about the law too too much. Sometimes we L's or even judges have our moments. You never know. Have no expectations but hold onto some hope.
j-
HAPPY BIRTHDAY FRANK!! Cheers friend!
((( )))
J-
Happy Birthday Frank!!!!! Remember, this one is supposed to be a good one!
Good Luck,
S'agapo!!
Maria
PS I cant type with these fake nails damn it!!!
Just for you....
Some employees bought their boss a gift for his birthday. Before opening the gift, the boss shook it slightly, and noticed that it was wet in the corner. Touching his finger to the wet spot and tasting it, he asked, "A bottle of wine?"
His employees replied, "No."
Again, he touched his finger to the box and tasted the liquid. "A bottle of scotch?"
His employees replied again, "No."
Finally the boss asked, "I give up. What is it?"
His workers responded, "A puppy."
The moral of the story.... even if everything is pissy, something's great around the corner.
You can do it... well.. except for blowing out the candles.. now that's tough! Happy Birthday!
*hugs*
Thanks all. Thankfully the decay is still slow. LOL. Tonite will be bowling with my kids and my nephews across the street, then, IHOP (all you can eat pancakes today).
Court UpdateI will continue to keep my thread open and updated until the final decree is signed:
- STBXW's motion to have me 'punished and purged' for contempt of court (thrown in jail) for my inability to pay her court-ordered legal fees failed. A money judgment was awarded against the sale of the house. Penalties were cut in half and added in so I don't have to pay anything up front right now
- Temporary sole custody and sole residential occupancy of the house was deferred to trial (whew)
- 3 subpoenas issued: me, my office manager and my CPA. My L will make a motion to have some things adjourned as all this is past the time of discovery
- L is going to file a motion for sanctions against STBXW's atty for being punitive (continues to request the same things over and over).
It's almost done, although, I DO expect to find myself in family court for the next 12 years.
It's not easy staying steady through this. It is even MORE difficult to have to do things that, as a man, would not normally be in my core values. On the other hand, to roll over and do nothing would be suicidal with regards to having parenting time with my children.
There would be too many candles to put on my cake (I prefer vanilla layer cake, buttercream, with yellow cake).
FIB
I am not sure I read all correctly but it sounds good to me, NO?
K
FIB, your Tshirt lady is waiting for you. Dont know where, but she is. And she will be one lucky lady!
Happy Bday FIB!!! You are officially on the senior tour or champions tour rather. You are a Champ! Keep your chin up.
Happy birthday man, 2010 will be a better year for all of us.
I haven't been on these boards in a coon's age, don't know what prompted me tonight but since I see a lot of familiar names on this thread, I'll post here.
I'll give the briefest of updates:
Despite having been a successful Piecer in 2002, having learned a lot about myself and having a few more valuable, sometimes wonderful years with my husband, he moved out January 2009. I was devastated at first, but after he'd been gone a couple of months, I looked around and realized "wait a minute, I think my life is better without the constant walking on eggshells and worrying about his moods!!!"
Although I'm still horrified at the pain he caused our children (don't get me wrong, he's been a good dad, but they were mystified at seeing their parents steady marriage evaporate), at least they were almost grown (late teens, early 20's) and there was little drama. Ex doesn't look happy but he has the thirty-something Asian chick he always wanted, I hope she's a nice person.
My life is still a little unsettled, but once I let go ("let go or be dragged" was my mantra) joy and fabulousness entered my life. I learned to play the drums in a rock band (last summer I played Highway to Hell in front of 2,000 people! Honest!!). I've reconnected with old friends that H didn't enjoy but I did, and made many many new friends that I love to pieces (but H wouldn't have liked). I've received enough compliments from other men, including much younger men, to dispel my ex's warped image of me. And I have a sexy new boyfriend, who gives foot massages and likes Sees chocolates.
I have peace in my heart that I did the very best I could to save my marriage. I also have peace that my ex wasn't a bad guy, just someone who couldn't handle what life threw at us. My illness, his concussions, our innate differences....it all just got too much for him and he was a wild animal who chewed his arm off to get out of the trap. I wish him well, I sincerely hope he finds the happiness he seeks.
I feel that all my time here on these boards prepared me so well, that I had already worked through most of my grief and issues the first time around, when he had his affair in 2002. This go round, it was a very accelerated process, and I am emerging on the other side just fine. Thanks to all the accumulated wisdom here, I feel confident about my future.
You might wonder why I didn't post about my journey here sooner - frankly, I didn't want my kids to read it, they were having a tough enough time.
Much love to every one of my old buddies.
Ellie
Ellie -
It has been a long time...so sorry to hear how things ended with your ex, but happy to hear that you are indeed a success story - happy and whole.
(hey, I thought that was my mantra, btw! I must have "borrowed" it from you!)
lol, no, I'm pretty sure I borrowed it from you!
I think I read it in your post, just about the time my hair was falling out by the fistfuls from the stress, and something clicked (after all, NO guy is worth losing your hair over!!!!).
Still, I figure I got 25 mostly-good years out of him, more than most get in this world. And it's impossible to be sad when you're drumming rock and roll!
Ellie
Waves at Ellie!!! Good to see you happy :-)
Hey Ellie!
Great to hear your happy! and after all isnt that whats most important? coming out of this, happy , healthy and having our childrens love and respect?
Hope things stay good for you, you deserve it!
thanks for posting that. The words about accelerated processing ring true for many and in FIB"s case, he's there...so ready to be done.
(Actually, We are all ready for HIM to be done!)
again, thanks b/c it's important that people read these things from someone "on the other side" ---who isn't hating their life...
j-
14 days Fib...I remember when it was months, then 100 days and now we are at 2 weeks...
No matter what, soon, there will be some increase in your day to day peace. That's an improvement. So, yay!
Cheers! Hugs!
J-
Two weeks..
A fortnight..
Hurrah..
Or.. you can just think of it as a month before income taxes are due!
You're the man.. errr... doc... incredible!
*hugs*
ELLIE!!!!!
Wow...bittersweet...so happy to see you yet, well....hey, the bottom line is as my friend frank_d has said from the beginning:
Ellie was on my thread from so far back. Know what Ellie...she is still watching The Bachelor.
The 'standers' would never agree to this, but, being here and almost done now, I truly believe that EVERY marriage is worth trying to save. None is worth being destroyed and living in distrust and pain. There are people who build and there are people who destroy.
Keep drumming Ellie and, if you pardon me, I hope the sex was/IS great!!!!!!!LOL.
13 days until trial. I am preparing. Atty has filed a motion for sanctions against her atty and also for relief for the thousands of documents he continuously asks for. I will literally have to go to court with a handtruck and 4-6 file boxes with receipts for 10 years worth of a two page request rider.
I drove home the other night and STBXW's passenger side car window was broken into in our driveway. Her wallet was stolen from out of the car. She had left it on the passenger seat, I imagine in full view. Of course, you know the looks I got and the subtle accusations:
STBXW (on phone with mother): "He just got home....about 10 minutes ago....don't know where he was....."
Etc. Her mother was over at my house 15 minutes later. Can't she handle her own affairs by now? Would anyone here need to call their mom at 42 years of age other than to tell them what happened? Estranged MIL gets out of her car as if STBXW had an MI:
MIL:
"Where is my daughter???"Me: She's upstairs Mrs. X. I'll open the door for you (I was taking out the garbage when she drove up at 10:30PM).
Police was called by her to file a report. I think it was the same guy from the last call and you could tell he was either 'fed up' or we are on the 'excessive call divorce list' down at the station.
I'm tired of this all. It's been almost four years since the bomb and over 2 years since filing. I'm exhausted and tired of being under the microscope. I'm tired of waking up at 3 am when my son or daughter runs into the MBR because they had a bad dream and then sitting there for 5-10 minutes debating to myself whether or not I should carry them back in, let them stay or get on the floor to avoid being photographed.
I look forward to getting this done. I am ready to start anew. I want and need.....uh.....well....mmm...a new suit and clothes (LOL).
I'll miss everyone here. Most people know where I am over on 'visage livre'. I'm sure I'll hang on a bit longer mostly trying to help others, but, I think it's too painful to stay here after awhile. There is definitely comfort in seeing old names, like seeing Ellie back here. I'm so happy that you posted. Even more that there is life after D.
The dating pool will be quite different for us. Most people will be like many of us here: midlife, newly divorced with kids, financially torched. But, hey....it is what it is.
Trying to steel myself.
FIB
PS..gypsy, et al. Thanks for all the birthday wishes. And look at all those 'O6's here. LOLOL. FIB
FIB, you WILL be just fine! And, YES, there IS definitely life after a divorce!! There are a lot of '06's, aren't there?
06, apparently a bad year for marriages!!!
Whew! I am glad that I am class of 07.
Yeah.. well '08 has all the Pisces...
FIB -
"Keep drumming Ellie and, if you pardon me, I hope the sex was/IS great!!!!!!!LOL."
OMG, you have NO idea
I must say, the ex was great in that regard, and I was pretty upset at the thought of being a 53 year old woman trying to train some new guy to be half as good. After all, 26 years of practice, a guy gets pretty good at things. And I'd had plenty of other lovers in my twenties (it was the 70's, after all), so I had a basis for comparison.
BUT - the new guy has mad ninja skills like I have NEVER seen.
Life is good.
Ellie
Yeah.. well '08 has all the Pisces...
Not so sure... Me and Al and Woog and I think maybe Donna and a few more were of 07...
Hey FIB, thinking of you...
K
Darn, Kalni.. I guess that makes me an '07 wannabee!
And kml.. I love your attitude!
Frank.. less than two weeks...
The best is yet to come.
*hugs*
12 more days...OMG I feel like planning for the "Twelve Days til Christmas" theme... but FIB's Jewish...
Still, you get the point.
I can't wait Frank, I really cannot wait for this to be over for you and your kids (and for what I think will happen to your stbxw). But again,
your "victory" in life is to be solely measured by your success and
your happiness going forward,
not her misery or inevitable crash and burn. In fact, except for how it affects the kids, who cares what she does/says/thinks/feels? She isn't your problem anymore...I know you're a reflective man and you want to know you're lessening the chance of a repeat experience so you look inward a lot. That's a smart thing to do. But for now, relax about that. (Besides, we'd all tell you if you were a jerk
)
I just think you should keep the constructive "ruminating" for later, and know that for now...You're soon to be totally in charge of your life without the parasitic impact of the Swirling Vortex of Negativity ("SVON") on you. And that's a good good thing.
Ahhh....12 days...
j-
BUT - the new guy has mad ninja skills like I have NEVER seen.
Gawd....I hope I meet a mad ninja woman with skills I HAVE NEVER SEEN.
YOWZA kml.
Atty filed a motion to attempt and quash STBXW's subpoena for 10 years of documents. I swear..I wish I could post L's affirmation. She is a bright woman. All her law, quotes, etc. She knows her stuff.
Trial is approaching. Under great pressure now. I just have to make it a few more weeks. I am deeply indebted to all of those here who have stayed around and continued to support me. Four years post bomb this April.......
FIB
SVON. Me no want SVON. FIB
But again, your "victory" in life is to be solely measured by your success and your happiness going forward, not her misery or inevitable crash and burn.
That's what I'm trying to remember -- but there are a lot of times I just so want W to crash and burn.
How do you get over that?
The will come a time when you believe everything is finished.
That will be the beginning.
Clinging....I think one of the key's is ....reaching a point when you stop blaming yourself and stop being a victim.
Accepting your weaknesses and understanding how you might have done a better job as a spouse is a big step. Then, changing is key. When you can make the hurdle and recognize that the tools you worked with (which were 'given to us')were not as good as the new tools that you gain, then, you can push out and up.
Remember, the WAS spouse chose not to honor their vows. Desiring to stay in a marriage where the other partner is unwilling to be a team partner, disrespects you, has a pattern of being unfaithful...is unhealthy.
YES...one should give a maximum effort to save your M in the beginning. However, no one should allow themselves to have their spirit destroyed.
FIB
PS...desiring your wife to crash and burn shows that you are still not focused on yourself. Your focus should be on YOU...on soaring and flying.
The best revenge is living well.
I understand that feeling. We have all been there, but, and I'll bet frank_d would agree with me: that is the 'little boy inside.' It's all part of a denial picture that comes with being a victim. You need to step out and away from it.
FIB
The best reward is living well. Revenge doesn't have a place. You'll know you've gotten there when you actually hope that she lives well, too.
The best reward is living well. Revenge doesn't have a place. You'll know you've gotten there when you actually hope that she lives well, too.
Absolutely. This person has children with you. Of course you wish them well. You can also wish that they someday regret their mistakes with you but here's a newsflash for those who know they truly did their best: if your spouse is so whacked out now or has their ego so invested in being "right' that they'll never see the light-good riddance. Don't hold your breath waiting for anything from them. Make your life all about you and let it all go.
BUT even If they DO "see the light" at some point, know that chances are,
you'll never hear about it. Their ego won't allow them to fully "get it" let alone tell
YOU about it. You'd be the last one to hear in all likelihood. H
ence the focus not being on them. My sister got a rare message from her ex h, telling her that he "gets it now" and I think he does. It was a month before her NEW MARRIAGE was schedules...Too bad, so sad, too late, etc. She's happier now with someone who makes the R a priority in his life and now that she knows what it's like to have a normal healthy M, she'd never go back to what she had with her loer ex. But her ex, is miserable and that doesn't make her happy. It makes their kids wistful and they see their dad as pathetically facing karma for being so deceitful and selfish. I recall him telling my sister --for SOME UNKNOWN reason, something that really hurt her as a co-parent and that is, that he now does NOT BELIEVE IN GOD and I just blurted out.... "oh, well it shows."
Sometimes the truth comes out in a sentence or two.
j-
Jeff...well said. And I think we can also add to that they finally find the happiness that they so desperately are looking for.
FIB
25....agreed. Again, like a high speed accident on the freeway: too dangerous to stop and look back. You have to keep going to avoid getting involved in the smack up. Call 911 for help, adjust your mirror and keep going.
FIB
(er...in reality of course, being a doc, I"d stop and try and help...LOLOL). FIB
Don't hold your breath waiting for anything from them. Make your life all about you and let it all go.
BUT even If they DO "see the light" at some point, know that chances are, you'll never hear about it. Their ego won't allow them to fully "get it" let alone tell YOU about it. You'd be the last one to hear in all likelihood.
Don't I know it. My W never admits when she's wrong. We've left churches. Stopped hanging out with friends. Switched the kids in schools after W either had an argument with someone or got embarrassed by something.
So yes, logically, I know now that the decision has been made it's going to happen unless something really shakes her up.
My heart though wants someday that closure where she says she realizes it wasn't me who was the source of her unhappiness.
My L and my counselor told me that's unlikely to ever happen and I'll have to give it up. With everything else, I hope it happens in time.
clinging...
hate to repeat myself but the victory here, is not in how your w feels or what she does/thinks or says...it is ALL about how your life is, going forward. Lucky for you, that is within YOUR control....so lose the marital history book and the scorecard about who was "righter" and leave the results of your w 's choices to the universe....don't wait any longer for her to "get it"....
You will know you are healthy and that you "get it" when you no longer care if she does...
j-
FIB,
yes, you must avoid SVON at all costs...and next time you want to stop at the scene of a car crash, it's okay to help. Just don't marry the driver.
j-
One week and counting to trial. Although I have been here before (12/16/09), I find myself going thru replay...a lot of what if's. Was I not a good DB'er? What could I have done better? Should I have been more patient when she came back?
No...the clandestine meetings, lying, inability to function when 'coming back'. It's rough, now. It's rough.
No...the relationship with my STBXW is over and she is a complete stranger, someone who would back the car over me if no one was looking.
I am not looking forward to being in a public forum and being painted as someone I am not. I grieve for my children, but, life can't continue this way.
I also grieve that I must do what I must next week. I am sorry that I must prepare for this. It's not in my core values as a man. None of this was. None.
Again, to Clinging, I agree with everything 25 has said. It is a huge waste of time to hope that 'divine retribution' comes around. It is also a waste of time hoping that they will come around and say "I made a huge mistake".
They fell out of love.
They dislike us enough, at least in my sitch, to destroy a family, hurt their kids and throw their home away and call the police on you and try and have you arrested.
It's a thin line between love and hate
Who wrote that?
FIB
I've read few D actually make it to trial. What are the major hangups or are there differences all down the line?
STBXW wants:
1) more Child Support than the amount calculated by law (25% of prior years AGI
2) STBXW wants huge maintenance in spite of being offered more equity on sale of house and many other things we 'gave in on'
3) STXBW refuses a radius clause and atty feels that she will leave with kids
4) Her L wanted to simply try case for maintenance and child support (threatened to impute my income); my L says we settle outside court of try entire case (including custody)
In addition, STBXW enjoys the public forum. She views it as a platform to punish me and put in her 2 cents. She comes from a family who threatens with the legal system (estranged FIL sued me in small claims court for a mortgage payment he covered for us). Also, wants to hurt me financially by running up the bill. FIB
****************************************************
L called....she believes they want to settle Monday. Opposing L is finally believing financial stuff. Also, my L has had some AMAZING legal affirmations in the last few weeks. And, also, did STBXW start to feel she shot herself in the foot?????
Big sigh of relief.
FIB
***************************************************
I am so glad to hear this! Like your W, my H magically decided to settle out of court at the 11th hour (I see you are in NY as well, this state is a NIGHTMARE!). And when I say 11th hour he had until 5pm to sign the settlement or the next day we were to be in court. He signed, I kid you not, at 4:58pm. It was horrible.
He had backed out on signing 2 prior agreements that were reached in our pre-trial conferences in front of a judge so I was not hopeful but in the end he know a trial would not bode well for him.
SO GLAD FOR YOU!
Sounds like someone talked some sense into her.
FIB,
Holding my breath on this one for you.
Though no one would dispute the fact that you are incredibly long overdue for a dose of good news.
Funny how her lawyer, now that trial date is one week away and he realizes his cash cow is about to run out, suddenly feels able to suggest settlement.
I sure hope your lawyer is VERY unyielding when it comes to any proposed settlement terms that are unfavorable to you. My guess is that SVON's L knows full well that the gig is up if the four of you walk into that court room next week.
Praying for you my friend.
Strength and honor,
Bill
FIB...
... crossing my fingers, toes and nose that all goes well...
*hugs*
Over the last few weeks, my L has had some incredible affirmations:
- she legally found that STBXW would lose thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars in equity on the house since I paid for upgrades
- she won a money judgement for contempt vs jail
- she wrote an affirmation to quash STBXW's subpoena deuces tecum and seek sanctions against her L
Last, but not least, I played tough at the end. I think her calling the police last time shot herself in the foot.
But...hey...I don't know for sure and it's not over yet.
FIB
It sure would save a boat load of cash if a settlement could be reached before court.
I wonder if STBXW's L is concerned about sanctions that might affect status with the NY bar. It seems that there should be some oversight to prevent divorce lawyers from abusing the system too much for their own gain.
Frank, once you have a place you dont have to share with someone who is batchit crazy, you will have some moments of great peace.
Go Mets!
yeah it's NOT over til it's over (not to rain on the parade b/c God Knows I'm squirming the way I was last Saturday when d12's team beat the undefeated team..I could not believe it even though we were ahead by 12 pts, until the last 30 seconds when I finally breathed a sigh of relief--same feelings here...waiting for the buzzer to sound...)
OKAY so did you say that your L won
sanctions against her L? Oh dear God say YES to that!!
If that 's true, then this is a juicy delicious piece of news....and I am starting to smell something...what's that I smell??? Oh, is it...victory?NOT JINXING IT....holding my breath and waiting for YOU to tell us it's done!!
j-
I look forward to the outcome of this for you FIB.
I am going to throw a DB party......
Give me 4 days notice and count me in!!!
Yeah for the good news! Frank, I kind of like your lawyer. My apologies for wondering if she knew what she was doing in the past...(
)
XXXX
K
Sorry but .....
I'm still holding my breath a little, waiting for the whole parade to go by,
BUT then I"m lighting up something carcinogenic, no doubt, and perhaps damaging to my liver too, OR IS IT GOOD FOR MY HEART?? --(you docs need to make up your minds)--and then, sitting back and saying..."ah...FIB's time has come..."
soon...soon it will come.
j-
Kalni...if you don't mind, I'm stealing from YOUR thread:
The rest 5% I am a bitch!! (that's the % I enjoy most).
I wonder if science has a way of containing and weaponizing this.
It has: meet my STBXW. You need the bomb suit in The Hurt Locker. Cheers. FIB
To all...I am not proud to be a soon-to-be divorcee. Although I look forward to getting this done, the finality will also bring saying goodbye to my children for probably more than half the time.
I find myself in a much better place than I was 4 years ago when I was bombed in May '06, but, I still have a long way to go. So many people here don't realize how lucky they were if their WAS punched out and just left. I'll say it then: you were very lucky.
I spoke to one of my oldest supporters here on the phone last night who has stopped posting here for the most part. I spoke with him from the parking lot of where I work....a place where many phone calls took place in the dark. I reminisced about one call we had on the eve of my trying to arrange a visit with a priest with my STBXW and several of the other attempts to save the M, now, long past and history.
I can't see myself staying here much longer after this is done. It hurts. It becomes the Saragasso Sea or Bermuda triangle: a graveyard of shipwrecks..marriages that hit a reef..unsinkables that strike an iceberg in the night. We married double-hulled wives but the hulls didn't extend to the main deck. We all had what probably amounts to 'standard' marital woes. But the hole in the ship, for them, spilled into one bulkhead, then the next, then the next until we were dragged under too.
I found myself in a little bit of replay this week, asking myself, again, the what if's......
What if.......
What I did this, or that?
Ugh.....I can't do this all over again. What's done is done.
Can anyone believe that I am still living with this woman?
Fours years, 3 names that I know of, 2 police phone calls, one contempt of court, and, lest we forget, one load of laundry thrown in front of the litter box to get pee'd on by the cat.
BTW, our cat passed away on 2/27 after 16 1/2 years of being on the job. We lost our greyhound of 13 years 8/01/09. The children lost 2 pets within 6 months.
It has, to say the least, been a painful 4 years.
It sounds like MLC. I hope you have a lot of patience. This takes a long time.
Indeed, Don, indeed.
FIB
FIB,
I too stepped away for quite some time. The pain was just too fresh and to see it repeated here, just too much.
But I came back. Out of a desire to help others.
There is life on the other side. A good life. One YOU choose.
Embrace it.
Consider it a gift.
Strength and honor, my friend.
I find myself in a much better place than I was 4 years ago when I was bombed in May '06, but, I still have a long way to go. So many people here don't realize how lucky they were if their WAS punched out and just left. I'll say it then: you were very lucky.
I never would have thought that my X's race to divorce me and marry the OW wass a good thing, but I can see thata it was. At least I was set free, not left in limbo forever.
Can anyone believe that I am still living with this woman?
Fours years, 3 names that I know of, 2 police phone calls, one contempt of court, and, lest we forget, one load of laundry thrown in front of the litter box to get pee'd on by the cat.
You have the patience of a saint. Not sure I could have endured what you have.
In 10 years you'll be proud of yourself and the fight you put up to save the M.
In 10 years you'll be proud of yourself and the fight you put up to save the M.
I think a lot of folks here can relate to this statement.
...especially after how $hilty I was treated tonite. I was stood up at S9's cub pack meeting. Never told me she wasn't taking him...kept them out to 8PM when tonite is my night ..kept me from doing his homework until late...never notified. Then, my week in the MBR, she plops herself down on the bed at 8P and opens her PC when I am trying to do my son's HW with him.
FIB
I hope you are STILL keeping notes of how she acts my friend...
I will personally miss you very much but if you cant keep posting, well, ok, I will accept it
Let's first get you on the other side safe first and then I will try to convince you to keep in touch..
K
Then, my week in the MBR, she plops herself down on the bed at 8P and opens her PC when I am trying to do my son's HW with him.
Did you crawl in next to her?! I am sure that would have got her moving pretty fast!
Hey Frank..
...especially after how $hilty I was treated tonite. I was stood up at S9's cub pack meeting. Never told me she wasn't taking him...kept them out to 8PM when tonite is my night ..kept me from doing his homework until late...never notified. Then, my week in the MBR, she plops herself down on the bed at 8P and opens her PC when I am trying to do my son's HW with him.
During and after the marriage, the former spouse could keep me off balance, emotionally cowering and manipulate me. It's not a question of whether it was intentional.. it is a statement of fact.
She blatantly disregarded the agreement in place, did not inform you and acted as if she could do whatever she wanted wherever she wanted. And she did it all.
It isn't that she treated you like a piece of crap. She disrespected the custody agreement, did not inform you of the children's whereabout during your parenting time and violated your agreed upon personal space.
A piece of paper is not going to make her behave.. even though she sounds like a loon.
Document this and send an email to your lawyer. She is breaking the law and agreements.
It's all in how you view yourself.. as the victim or making it right. Goodness knows you've had to deal with years of her increasingly erratic abusive behavior. The time to put in controls is now, before the settlement is signed. Talk to your lawyer about your concerns with her actions and how they may play out in the future. How can you protect your children and yourself.
Mourning the loss of the marriage, the destruction of all happily ever afters, asking what if's is all normal. However, save that until after the battle. One thing that has shone through like the sun on a thousand diamonds is that you're a dedicated loving father and a noble intelligent man.
Let the lawyer be the sword wielding arm, taking directions based on what you need.
Soon, my friend.. soon. And she'll probably get worse before the divorce is final. Look at is as the gustatory cacophony after an all you can eat baked beans and onion buffet. And binge she did. And the quieter it gets, the more it smells.
*hugs*
Yum! Beans and Onions! Throw in some bacon, mac&cheese and cow liver and I would achieve nirvana.
Almost as good as
Corn Dog Casserole
Hey Frank..
[quote=faithisbelieving]...
Let the lawyer be the sword wielding arm, taking directions based on what you need.
Soon, my friend.. soon. And she'll probably get worse before the divorce is final. Look at is as the gustatory cacophony after an all you can eat baked beans and onion buffet. And binge she did. And the quieter it gets, the more it smells.
*hugs*
okay HAD to make comment about THIS before going on....I LOVE THIS METAPHOR MORE THAN ALMOST ANY I'VE SEEN HERE...kudos Gypsy...I'm a wordsmith and this, was a good one...okay, now back to the thread....
j-
Hey Frank..
If you have time, join a few of us going to see Gardner's son (a professional actor) who's starring in a play at Western Connecticut State University in Danbury, this Saturday at 8PM.
Huh huh?
*hugs*
well dang, since you guys go to live theater, go see MY kid in NYC in HIS show...details later...
I mean, we gotta support each other whenever we can --and the more we see other people's kids on stage, the LESS likely those kids will ask their parents --our friends---for money, and that's a win win...
j-
25years..
Are you near NYC? Do you want to join us on Saturday?
My daughter's in a high school production of the "Sound of Music" as Frau Schmidt and a nun at the end of May.. and probably in a Beauty and the Beast at the end of July, first weekend of August.
This could be lots of fun! Those dance cards fill up fast with theater kids.
*hugs*
*hugs*
You guys are too funny. I would be happy to do SOMETHING once this is over.
Monday.
We've had 2 offers on the house. One changed their mind and dropped out. The other is way way lowballing us. We have another open house in 2 weeks. After that, we may have to lower the asking price a bit.
My CPA notified me....he is NOT going to show in spite of the subpoena. I don't blame him. He is in the middle of tax season. I have to pick up stuff from his office to take with me to court on Monday.
My son has been opening up to me at night. He told me I was the 'more fun parent'. Well..I don't gloat in that. I just tell him it is OK to be open and talk. I will most probably get to assistant coach his BB team this year again. D6 got a buy this year from sports because of all the headache she went thru last year with the seizure stuff.
To Kalni....thanks for all your support. I hope you break the rules and save yours.
FIB
Frank, for what it's worth, I believe a son is going to relate a bit more with a father as time passes.
25years..
Are you near NYC? Do you want to join us on Saturday?
My daughter's in a high school production of the "Sound of Music" as Frau Schmidt and a nun at the end of May.. and probably in a Beauty and the Beast at the end of July, first weekend of August.
This could be lots of fun! Those dance cards fill up fast with theater kids.
*hugs*
*hugs*
Not near NYC--near LA --but love that you guys are supporting the "artiste" DB kids. Will be on west coast last week of July as well but would love to see any of our young'uns' in a show...Get their autographs before they forget who had them.... On a diff note, FIB---mil passed away this morning--and yes h got there last night so she knew he was there, and she died in his arms and at peace...thank GOD...
hoping this is over for him and that he finds peace too.
Amen to that for ALL of us here...
will be thinking of you on the 15th IF IF IF it really comes to that. Will it? Oh, and I hate her L...I hope he costs HER a lot...(2 fools. They should date).
j-
25...I am so sorry for your loss. I hope that this will empower your husband to see what is good and right in life, and, he will see value in the time that the two of you have invested in your lives together as husband and wife.
Time is passing. Monday will be here soon. I just want to get this over with. I've had some weird dreams of late. Dreamt that I was invited over to the IL's house for something (STBXW's BD). Man..THAT was uncomfortable. LOLOL.
Well....next to last thread. FIB
"All rise."
Trial tomorrow. Last night a tree came down two blocks away and we lost power. S9 was scared. STBXW was out. Again...Saturday night..my night with the children. S9 wanted to sleep with me but I told him no but he could 'camp out'. I brought his sleeping bag in and brought the Coleman lamp in from the garage. D6 had crashed already. We started some father son talk.
STBXW comes in around 1130/1145 PM...pulls S9 out and tells him to sleep in his own bed..he's a big boy...etc. He starts to cry. Accuses me of 'keeping him this way til he's 18'...enabling..etc. I tell STBXW that he's only been on this planet 9 years...he's scared...he's allowed to have a 'camp out'. She takes her phone out and has someone listen to me. I didn't care. I told S9 that I would leave his sleeping bag and that if he got scared, he could crash there. He came in once and STBXW came up and dragged him out. He came back again and fell asleep.
Background: S9 had two bad nightmares this week: he dreamt a gray cloud was following him; he dreamt someone broke into the house while he was playing video games and shot him. Each time he came running in at 5 am or so. STBXW photo'd again. Two weeks ago when STBXW was leaving with the kids early to go skiing for a day, she laid out sleeping bags on the floor on her side of the bed and both kids slept on the floor beside her.
Again...Saturday night, my night with the kids.
Was slow to read her last counterresponse to her affidavit:
1) I 'secret' S9 away
2) Since I paid my atty 2K and used my IRA to pay my malpractice premium, that WAS willful thus proving contempt.
3) When she had a tooth abscess a few weeks ago, I 'refused to take her to the hospital, forcing her to call her parents (rubbish...I ran around the house looking for pain meds and called 2 pharmacies AND wrote a prescription for her AFTER she had just called the police on me)..and..refused to let the kids say good bye to her (gawd).
FIB
Closed. Final link above.FIB