Start of the end.. - DivorceBusting.com

Well,

Today is the start of the work on ending my M with my W. This is what she wants, and not me, but were headed for Mediation starting today. I do not expect mediation to work, once the financials are on the table, and she sees that there is essentially 0 dollors in the kitty to divide between us, and that I am not going to go live with my parents, and pay for her to stay in our home..

This is the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with, looking at my D everyday, and knowing that my M is going to be over is just killing me.

My W has truly moved on, and I wonder if she ever was truly in love with me. I know I can't focus on that, but I can't understand how it is so easy for her just to say goodbye to everything we tried to put together for 14 years.

I also met with my L on friday, and what he told me to do is completely mind boggling to me. He is suggesting I leave the house ASAP, maybe even deed the house over to her, and then convert to only giving her child support money, and let her deal with the financials of the house, her cars, utilities, etc knowing that she most likely won't be able to maintain it for long. (I don't want the house, and need to move closer to work, so that's part of the impetus for his reasoning..)

From an Logical, and even somewhat for my emotional well being, I can clearly see what he is saying, but it goes against every core belief and thing I had thought about myself from being a good H and provider for my Family. I have been struggling with it all weekend, even though everyone I discuss it with understands what the L is suggesting completely..

I am curious, if anyone reads my Sitch here, what are your thoughts on this? Anyone ever done something like this? If I do so, it would be the hardest decision I ever make in my life, but may give control of me back to myself during this..

If your L is telling you something.....and those around you also see the sense in what he is saying....then maybe that should tell you something.

What's the point in paying for professional advice if you ignore it?

Your right, of course, and I SEE the logic in it, however, I can't get over the feeling about what that may do to me emotionally..

I need to have people continue to hit me with the 2x4 it seems, as I keep falling back into blaming myself for this, what it is going to do to my D, what is going to happen to my life, etc..

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

I also met with my L on friday, and what he told me to do is completely mind boggling to me. He is suggesting I leave the house ASAP, maybe even deed the house over to her, and then convert to only giving her child support money, and let her deal with the financials of the house, her cars, utilities, etc knowing that she most likely won't be able to maintain it for long. (I don't want the house, and need to move closer to work, so that's part of the impetus for his reasoning..)

I hope you follow your L's advice. Your W has made some poor choices, and it sounds like she will have some consequences as a result. I think that's a good thing. It doesn't sound like you are trying to control her, punish her, or get revenge. Just letting the consequences for her actions occur. That's very positive in my book. Karen

Wow. Just Wow..

I can not believe what I am finding out about my W in the mediation. I am so angry and frustrated, it's hard to comprehend. She has morphed into just a money grubbing person that I do not know.

I am looking at essentially financial devastation for myself as this D progresses, we really have 0 value in assets because of the things we have done with the money I inherited, and where we are currently. From a D perspective, they say that what it really means is just a piece of paper that says we are D, and I start paying 500 per week in child support.

I also found out that she has 50k in Inheritance coming in June, she used her credit card to fund breast enhancement surgery, plans on buying a car when that check comes in, and placing the rest in retirement funds for herself. The whole time at the meeting she is claiming she can't afford the house, nor will be able to afford moving out.

Are you effin kidding me????

I put every cent of my inheritance from my grandparents into our finances, house, family, etc, and she plans on hoarding hers for herself, and wants her portion of our Assets. At this point it may be better that I essentially have effective 0 assets.

I am livid. I am calling my L.

she's out to get all she can for herself, so do protect yourself and see the L before you do anything. Sorry this is double painful for you right now, her inheritance should count against her, hope you get a good settlement. And remember, sometimes you have to give in a little to have what you want, so make a list of everything you have/own and make sure nothing gets left behind.

I would double check with your attorney about YOUR inheritance you put in the marriage. I think you may be able to recoup that if I remember correctly how that goes.

Otherwise, your attorney's advice is solid, get out o fthat house now and cut your losses before they increase. Is it a moral dilemma to you? Of course. But obviously on the other side of that mediation table, morals, like Elvis have left the building, food for thought.

What a mess I have here, so, now that the cards (Read Money) are on the table, my W thinks the best thing to do is for us to 'live together' maybe in 'separate rooms' until the extra properties we have for ultimately investment purposes are sold, and there's more money when we can then sell the main house..

Gee, that sure would be nice for her now, wouldn't it? She says it doesn't bother her in the least bit that I am in the house, so long as I am cordial to her. She truly must have no feelings for me but 'friendship' as she says..

Well, here is where I stand now, and somehow it may be me that has to force this thing to closure to protect myself. That's a dilemma, as I still "feel" I should be doing what's best for my family. I still think of my W as my W, when I do not think she thinks of me as anything but the roommate in the house that's paying the bills...

ok, let me ask this, who filed for D? I would imagine it wasn't you right?

If need be, I will dig back in my notes of everything I went through, and as a father protecting his rights. There is a checklist of things to do and it sounds as if your L is playing off that list. I didn't follow that list swiftly enough because I felt the same as you, family, no way ocul dthis be happening because of family.

Guess what? No where that got me? A childless out of order ATM machine making autmatic payments as required and IOU's for the rest. All the while kringing every time the phone rings as it's a bill collector for bills XW ran up in my name (minaly for her birth control to be with OM "safetly") and one turn from being homeless, with a little over a week til payday and deciding between gas or groceries.

I know it's a hard choice to make, but you need to protect your ass and that's the bottom line. If what you say she says at mediation is true, then you have nothing to protect by staying. If anything, you manning up and leaving the house may just be a slap in the face to wake up and rethink her actions.

dday: Man, sorry to hear about your sitch, but that is precisely where I don't want to be either. I had visions of sleeping in my car eating ramen noodles heated on the engine every day, while the XW was running around in her new bikini all summer on my dime...

No one has actually filed for the D yet, she wanted to go to Mediation, then file from an agreement made through that.

Ironic that to keep myself together, I may have to go to the L and file myself, that may be the only way to keep things in my favor. Maybe that would be a wake up call to her as well, that she doesn't get to call all the shots..

I feel I am almost at the point where I need to make that call..

PS: Thanks all for your thoughts on my Sitch..

Do some research and be absolutely certain on how far you plan to go with this. Once the ball gets in motion and she has her own attorney doing the dirty work for her, it gets real ugly from there.

I thought my XW would have some common sense and realize the kids being with her would not be the best situation for anyone, emotionaly, financialy, educationaly, the whole ball of wax. But no, instead it was one lie after the other to paint me as the bad guy where the kids were concerned until I saw no point to continue on. Think the judge gave two hershey squirts about OM sitting right next to her in the court room? No, all he cared about was the best for the kids.

And now, I live the consequence of that. And all the while enduring 11 long hard months just waiting for her to wake up, which never happened.

Thanks dday, I understand that's the case, and I am really trying to determine best course of action.

I have been thinking about trying to come up with something ammicable that I can live with, but I also feel I need to get away from this sitch for both my emotional and financial health.

For her, emotions are not really at issue here, she's detached from me.

I fear if I try and push to hard, the lawyers will tear me up, so trying to come up with some other plan first, that doesn't have me in limbo for the next 6 months..

So today I was actually feeling pretty good, until I was starting to pay the bills this morning, and notice my D in bed sniffling. I went over to ask if something was bothering her, and she said she was sad that Mom wouldn't be with us today at my nieces b-day party, then she started to cry..

Oh god, I feel so awful now, I made sure to say it's ok to be sad, and to cry and to talk about it, and that her mom loves her very much and that I love her very much, and it is not her fault for any of this! I cried a little, but tried to hold it back for a bit, but after she went and sat with my W I had to go sit in the bathroom for a bit, this is so awful...

My W cried as well with her for a bit, but now I am angry at her. I have tried everything to keep this thing together, and nothing is good enough for her. I have not asked her for a thing for months, and let her do whatever she wants. I can't even understand this selfishness from her to just look out for what she wants now, but I also can't keep in that frame of mind, or I will just grow more bitter and resentful..

I am not even putting my thoughts on this down coherently, just need to vent for a bit. Damnit, I am so mad..

Today has been a significant day for me, so I am writing this down to keep it in perspective.

Today I took a small stand for myself, and it went somewhat well.

For the last couple of days, I have been trying to focus on what I want in the process of the upcoming D, including what I am willing to pay for, in child care, cars, bills, etc, and had been writing it down in preparation to approach my W on it.

I had, however, been in fear of doing so, and how my W would react. Well, the L I had gone to see, sent a bill to my house, and the W picked up the mail and saw it. This morning she brought it up, and asked if I had hired a lawyer and started to attack me on everything financial that would be coming up. I told her I needed a few moments, and for her to finish up and get dressed then we would discuss it.

I took this chance, even though I was not truly ready, to go into what I wanted for this, and what I would be willing to do. Laying out what the L told me financially where we are at, and what my obligations would be. I then laid out to her what my needs for this D are, and she has agreed in principal to 90% of what I am asking to do. I was not bitter, nor angry, but explained why I was thinking this way.

Along the way, we discussed some of our R as well, and where we were. Interestingly, at one point she even asked what would things be like if we tried to reconcile. I did not go to far down that road, as we had already discussed a ton of stuff this morning, and said we have a lot to think about, so lets just take some time to do so.

We then actually hugged, and had a quick kiss on the lips, then went our own way.

I am putting this down, not because I think we can reconcile, but that I feel good for myself, standing up for what I wanted, and I feel I have a bit of respect back for myself.

I need some insights from experienced DB'er's, I have some questions that need serious thought/action from me, and not sure of which way to go. I am working on GAL, lost 25+ pounds, and starting to go out with friends more, and do things just for me.

1) Fear of Detachment: I realize now, that I am actually afraid to detach, for fear of NOT wanting my relationship reconciled. Is that something anyone has happened to them? I have been trying to detach, but the undercurrent of fear has kept me from being able to do so, and I believe it's the case that I am afraid of what will happen after I detach????

2) Because our M is financially a 0 sum game currently, and a D will essentially be a piece of paper, and we go our separate ways, my W has said we should just live together and stay married until we clear those up, which could be 6 months to a year.

There are now 2 ways I have been looking at #2 above, and where I need some thoughts from experienced DB'ers:
- I can push for the D myself, and the above post from me when I decided what I wanted from the D and approached my W with was a start in that direction, thinking my W only wants to wait around to get more money once our investments are disposed of.

- I can try and stick it out living with her, make the changes I want to do for myself, and see if R our M is possible in the cards during that timeframe?

Since truly in my heart what I want is to R, does it make sense for me to push for D, when it's not what I want? Or am I glossing over the fact that my W is just wanting the extra money in the end?

Since I want to R, is it better I leave, and DB, or try and DB while at home?

I have not been doing well at DB'ing, but getting better now that I am trying to GAL, following some of the great advice here, etc.

How have things been otherwise with W?

Right now, just cool, though we have not been around each other much due to schedules..

Although our talk the other day she had asked what things would be like if we tried to reconcile, but later that day expressed that I deserved someone who would love me like a wife truly should, and that was not her, and at one point when I was talking about finances, she exclaimed, "Fine, we'll just stay married then!" (Do I believe any of what she say? as I think she is MLC, and the WAS??? I have been told not to listen to what they say too much...)

She looks tired, more tired the last few nights than I had expected, and has put a tape player on the bed with her to listen to meditation tapes, and has been in bed the last two nights when I got home, so I have only just asked how her day was, and both times here reply was just "Alright. How was your day?" so I let it alone, and went to watch TV.

I have been sleeping elsewhere in the house, as I find it easier than trying to sleep in the same bed with her, but that's for myself, not to try and punish anyone, or anything..

It could be something you are or aren't saying that makes her moody? Or she could just be moody from trying to figure out what to do? Or could be both or none of the above?

If things are sane for the most part, and it were me who at least has the opportunity of being in the same house during this period, I would tread slowly on the D stuff as your W seems to have mixed opinions on the subject. That's a luzury I didn't have. Also, she's not with anyone else right? I would be spending my time doing the little things that would cause her to ook around and think "meh, this isn't so bad afterall" ya know?

Well, I am running low on stamina..

I have not talked to my W since Saturday, but then we talked last night, I asked what it would mean for her, if she wanted to remain in the M, and her response was, she didn't know.

She was clear on that she just has no feelings for me other than wanting to be friends, and absolutely no physical attraction any more. I tried to validate everything she said, but now I just don't know what to do.

She also stated she has nothing left to give for a relationship, and if she is ever to find love again, it will just happen, and she is not going to do any work on that at all.

I feel she is deep in MLC, and I have been trying to read up on it. She is saying she can't get over that she's 40 and her whole life has been about giving to other people, and all her physical changes are about this, and how now she wants to do only the things that are for her. I tried not to defend myself, but wound up doing that a bit when she started blaming me for everything wrong in our relationship, but also tried to just validate to her what she was feeling.

Clearly I don't know what to do at this point, do I take the reigns, and just move on from this thing and let her go? I don't feel she'll ever come back to me at this point.

When she complains of doing things for every one else, sounds like a key to me to her problems.

She is not now, and has only been focused on herself for the past 8 months or so. For the past 2 months or so, I have just left her to do the things she wants to do, and working on GAL for me.

For me, that means 4 hours a day of commute time, supporting her financially while she goes through this. She doesn't have anything to worry about but herself, and helping with my D8, and her saying it's just over for 8+months is leading me to try and focus on what I need.

I really have been leaning towards moving on, and getting a place closer to work, that will mean dealing with my D8's emotions, she will be devastated.

My W will either succeed or fail without me around, truthfully, I hope she fails at least a bit, to show her that it was not as bad as she says it was. I am sure that seems mean, but I don't know what else to do at this point..

Why financially support her wishes to move on?

No, that's not what I would be doing. I am supporting her financially now, while living at home. We discussed the D, and if/when I decide to move on, I am planning on moving to just giving her the financial support I am required by our agreement, and transfer the house stuff to her.

I would like to get agreement on selling our home, then truly she will be responsible for moving out, and dealing with her own finances.

Right now, with me dealing with everything financially, and family, car and house maintenance, etc, I just feel I am enabling her detachment from the family, she truly has nothing to worry about from that, other than when to schedule her next hair cut, waxing, gym class, etc..

Some days, I don't know what to expect anymore, but I am focusing on what I want to make me happy.. For some reason, I think I have been getting better at detaching, and have been in somewhat better mood around her lately. I kind of took the pressure off myself lately, and have taken a couple days to just chill, and not worry about the M, the D, finances, etc.

So, Friday night, I had to work late unexpectedly until 2:30 am and didn't get home until 4am. I know putting the car in the garage at that time woke up my W, but nothing I could do about it.

I heard her get up to go get coffee, and knowing I was going to be tired, ran to stop her for a second, first I sincerely apologized for coming home so late and waking her up, but that it was due to work, and could she bring me a cup of coffee as well. She agreed.

After she came back, we wound up talking a bit, and these last few days I have been complimenting her on the way she looks, etc, but I have been sincerely doing so, not from what I think she wants to hear or anything. We joked about a couple things as well. I then went out to mow the lawn, and she came out around lunch time and asked if I would like a grilled cheese sandwich, and called me in when it was ready.

I thanked her for cooking, and we actually ate together on the deck in the nice weather, and passed some pleasant conversation. I then went back to finish mowing the lawn. She came out shortly after and asked if I wanted another cup of coffee, and I said you bet, and joked about how tired I was from work the night before..

When she came back with that coffee, I happened to be near the driveway mowing, and I gave her a big smile as she drove in, she did the biggest head doubletake when she noticed, and smiled back at me I have ever seen her do. That right there just made my whole weekend, but I realized that I had been smiling at her because I wanted to, not thinking about what kind of reaction I would get..

When she brought over the coffee, she had also stopped and gotten some cupcakes, and asked me back to the deck to eat a chocolate cupcake and have coffee. We again had some decent conversation and coffee/cupcakes and I finished up the yard work later.

An few hours later, I had been bantering with my W about her new breasts and how good they looked, (Which they really do, despite my really feeling jealous when I found out about them, and having a real hard time when she got the surgery) and after her shower she let me see and then even feel them. I played up a bit during that for about 1/2 hour in a sexual way, and she showed a couple signs of being interested, but then said no way were we going to have sex, so I completely dropped it and went and did other things, including getting ready to go out for the night.

I left a couple hours later, just going out for the night, not even telling her what I was doing. Oddly, during the whole day, I had been doing these things for myself, and not worried about how my W would react, nor what she was doing. Sunday morning, she cooked breakfast for both of us as well, and then she left for the day, and I sincerely told her to have a nice day.

I felt somewhat at peace the whole weekend, knowing that I would be fine with or without her.

Yeah, it comes and goes like that, the longer things tread, the less it goes.

Another thing, I took our D8 out to dinner last night, and got home after the STBXW (I need to keep calling her that, rather than just my W) was home from her day out.

Later, the STBXW watched TV downstairs with me, something she has not done in a while, and when I got up to get something to drink, she made a point to ask me why I was wearing the shirt I had been wearing and didn't I hate that shirt, and she thought I had thrown it out. I believe it's a shirt she got me, but I had not liked the way it looked on me when I was 25 pounds heavier than I am now, but never hated the shirt. Why the heck does she even care what shirt I was wearing?

Because it's something you wouldn't have worn before? Part of the 'bcoming mysterious'.

Yeh, I had not done that as any kind of test or to see her reaction. I was genuinely surprised when she said something, I realizing that she had noticed something about me at all..

Hey IWITW,

I had forgotten how similar our sitchs were. Holy crap!

Dude, my only question is where will d8 live and with whom? I didn't read everything but it sounds like maybe d8 will live with your W?

Your L's advice seems sound but how far will you be from d8 once you find a place closer to work?

I'm getting similar advice from my L, i.e. provide sufficient equity so that the monthly support payments are as low as possible. It seems counter intuitive to me as well because it feels like I'm rescuing her, i.e. if she can't afford to buy a different house then the consequence is she'll have to rent. But maybe there is wisdom in this approach that I'm not appreciating.

Cabbr

The only thing clear for me for sure, is that you love your d, and your stbxw is noticing lots more than you thought she was. So keep up the mystery and GAL as much as possible. I wrote to someone else what I thought it took to get through all this and so, I'm pasting it here.

Don't know where you are emotionally today, but take what you can from my words and leave the rest. I think detaching and fearing it, DOES make sense to me in that you fear you won't care anymore and you want to still care. But reconciliation can happen even if you actually divorce and move on....if you remain civil to each other and improve as people and co-parent...who knows? I have 2 relatives who div and remarried their exes and both couples said the 2nd time around was better.

But if your w continues to be selfish it is natural and healthy for you to feel differently about her. Frankly, if she doesn't love you back, or treat you right, I think it's UNhealthy to pretend things are the same and to go on "loving her unconditionally"...you can love who she was and what she did for you --mother to your kids and the good times you did have--but if she's "gone"...then she's gone.....if she comes back, then we'll see.

Here goes and good luck,
What Worked For Me

I think it's so important that we say something about our stories and what we think helped the most for our m's to reconcile and last.

As my signature says, I consider my M restored and finally can say "D busted". Not perfectly fine by a long shot, but we are closer than we've been in a decade and I think we're on our way to having what we once had, a really good M.

If you had asked me 3 years ago, or 2, I would not have said we'd be married today. I'd have given us a 10% chance of staying M.

After piecing for nearly 2 years, we attended Retrovaille, Not b/c we thought we were failing at the piecing so much as wanting to be "done" with it, if you know what I mean. Even though no M is ever "done" and we are always works in progress, we needed a boost. And so when we attended Retrovaille, we found that we were able to reconnect more fully without the past looming over so much. It helped us a lot. Gave us the boost to the finish line, so to speak. But getting to the point where you can even consider going to Retrovaille was the real struggle.

But the main thing that turned my situation around in the first place and that would enable us to go to Retrovaille, was my own DBing. Detaching, GAL, etc
Letting go, focusing on positives in each other, helped us get back together - keeping that up and then choosing forgiveness is what enabled us to stay together. Neither of these was or is easy. I didn't know how.

When H actually left us for a JOB ('adventure") up in the wilds of Alaska... (crazy as it sounds, it was what it was, even though it's not how he saw it then). For me may as well have called "Alaska" "Alicia" or OW...b/c that's how it felt....but anyhow, he left.

When he was contemplating it, I did the pleading and arguing and if I say so myself, I had a compelling argument that I think would have won a case in front of the Supreme Court. But to H, it was all for naught. He could not hear me. Or he would not. Doesn't matter. He didn't/couldn't hear so... whatever.

I let him go. To put it bluntly, what choice does the LBSer really have when a spouse wants to go? Hard as it is to admit...we really don't have any choice except how we'll treat their departure. They leave, and then we react. At some point, our lives have to be about our actions, not our reactions.
All we control is us.
That was it for me. I got sick and tired of feeling sick and tired, and did not want my kids to see a bitter or sad woman all the time. I did not want to be a model for victimhood OR revenge.

So I began to see H's departure as mainly a loss for him, less so for me and the kids. We had each other, after all. (And if he had taken the kids as some WAWs are able to do, I'd have made sure I got half time with my kids. And I'd fill it with good full living). I felt that at some point, whether H was lonely or not, I would not be lonely. I would fill my life with real living, and not waiting. And so I began to GAL. I started making choices I wanted to make without regard to H's career or feelings b/c after all, he was gone. It started small, with things like seeing chick flicks b/c H was not around so who cares if he'd like the movie? Not about him, not at all. No more toilet seat left up either...(hey I said start small...)

I saw some positives from this separation for the first time. I really started to embrace those positives. (H noticed this, although I did not know it at the time). For our anniversary I knew I didn't want to be alone so I chose to take a trip with the kids that I would have preferred to go on with H but alas, since he was not available, we had to go without him. Just before departure he said he wanted to go but it was too late for that. Honestly. So off I went with our children. And we had a blast (We went to Italy, but any wished for trip would have helped me accomplish the same thing; enjoying life as a family even when one member isn't around. We had been in the military and knew lots of families who had fun together even when a member is away....we can all do this and must.)

Unbeknownst to me, h noticed this and ached for our company. While we were learning and seeing so much in a totally new place, I didn't think much of h b/c there were no reminders of him, and it was so stimulating, as new places and new activities are. (Hence the suggestion to go on a trip if it is at all possible). It was very healing for us. I did not do this for attention from H and in fact would have preferred he not know of the trip and resent it. (Which I think he did, but that was not my problem....) I took the trip b/c I had longed to go there for years and had put it off until h was ready...well, no matter now! I was ready and I went with some of my fav people; our children.

I think you get the point. There comes a time when you decide you have to LIVE NOW, and you can't keep waiting and checking on the WAS or taking their temperature, or wondering what it might be. You have to let them go. Sometimes they come back and then you have the real work to do. I think the chances of their return increase when you let go and I feel that strongly.

But paradoxically, you have to really let them go for this to work and you have to NOT care if they come back, in order for this to work.

So it ends up that you let them go so you can be happy without them and then either 1) they do not come back and you'll have GAL and moved along into your future that much faster, OR 2) they will come back b/c you let them go.

This is why I cannot understand the long term pursuit of a WAS by an LBSer. It does not work. I do get why it happens at first; we all do it. We argue and plead and whine and nag and cajole and yell and explain and talk and talk and talk....

Then if we are lucky, we find DB. If we find DB, we may start to think, "what I was doing isn't really working, is it? So maybe I should try something else", and we begin the 180's - that mainly consist of GAL for us. No more excuses, no more waiting or praying for patience but really just waiting, and no more just hoping and NOT changing ourselves or taking charge of our lives b/c no one else will take charge of it! Also saw that I was a fun person, still attractive and still smart and funny, and in sum, I was/am a good catch. I began to picture my life as a single woman in a positive light. Hard at first but I knew widows who were eventually happy, so why not me? Always projected upbeat attitude around H and saw his departure as a mistake on his end but kept it to myself, and accepted it as a mistake he seemed destined to make so I looked at it with resignation but fortitude, knowing I would be fine no matter what his sitch was.

And when I pictured my life without him but made sure to picture it happy, the more detailed the picture, the better I felt. Me happily pursuing my career goals, spending time with my children and my friends and family and meeting new people and having a good life on my own. Doing new activites became a real goal of mine. I became happy again. Tell you the truth, there were down sides to being married that I had to weigh when H wanted us to reconcile. So we have improved those things and continue to work on them.

No more victim stuff, no more "making sure WAS knows how much pain I'm in b/c otherwise their guilt might not make them come back" and being blind to the fact that pity is not attractive, and will never get a WAS to come back and stay. Ever..... It just won't. If it did, it would only take a week for it to work.

And Being attractive/attracting, is a byproduct of GAL and true Detachment....letting go and not wearing our "purple heart" for our wounds, on our sleeves. Not making sure our WAS's know good and well what pain they've inflicted...and how much guilt is on them....why? B/C it does not work!
Decide if you want to be "right" or you want to be happy. Too many LBSers, (and I was one of them) do not know how to forgive someone. I never saw it growing up. But those who quote scripture to get their WAS back rarely succeed and as I said, guilt won't get them to stay...even if it temporarily gets them back. Frankly it seems to send most of them running faster and farther away. And in the end, if you want them to come back b/c they're healthy and want to restore the M in a full way, the guilt has to go. Is it "just"? Who knows? Is forgiveness fair? I mean it IS essential to the well being of a marriage but I see a lot of LBSers who hold onto their resentment for a long time and then they wonder why the piecing did not work. At Retrovaille my h suddenly cried about the pain he inflicted on us and the damage to the "Rs he has with our d's and I cried for him. But when I told a gf of mine this small story she asked me if I "reminded him of all the hurt he had caused" and I was agape. She didn't "get it". She thought I should rub salt in his wounds and I can only wonder how many LBSers are like that. Good God, what is the goal? If it's suffering you want the WAS to feel, then sue them for div and take them to the cleaners...but if you want a happy m, then let your pain go. You are the one holding onto it ( I'm not directing this at you personally, hope that's clear....)

Anyhow, I thought I'd post this so that people know there are couples who make it - Even through this DB experience. (See BrandNewDay, faithfulH, sandi2 and saffie (or safflie sp?) as well for they also reconciled.
Hope this helps.

j-

I have not posted on this thread in a while, as I had been still on my newcomers thread.

However, it looks things are going south for good. Tomorrow I will be going to L, as Mediation is essentially dead end for me.

If anyone of you reading this on this thread have a minute and can stop by for words of advice in my newcomers thread, I need it..

Ok fellow D survivors, I need some help and guidance big time, I normally post in my newcomers thread, but hoping some of you here that have been through this can offer some advice.

I just got kicked between the legs to the tune of 700+ a week I get to hand to my STBXW for the benefit of being married to her.

That's just the temporary order, she is asking for 1100+ a week in child and spousal support so for the temporary order I am getting off light!!!!

I don't know how to cope with this.. How do I look at this women who is going to be taking so much from me without getting bitter..

There is no chance for reconciliation, for sure. 700 a week that I am going to be handing her is more than twice the gross pay she has ever made in her life!!!

I am so distraught right now I don't know what to do!!!!

It sounds like a lot, but it depends on what your COMBINED total net take-home pay is, between the two of you. It is usually a formula, at least for the child support, based on your combined income.
Is part of that alimony? There are no set-in-stone numbers for that...although alimony is tax-deductible to you, taxable income to her.

The money is the most straight-forward piece of this...do you have counsel to look and help you think clearly at this?

Hi DF, thanks for the comments.

CS formula for us looks to be set in stone, and figure around 609 per week right now, which is just galling enough to begin with. She doesn't have to change a thing about her part time job, lifestyle, housing, trips to the spa, hair salon, etc, ad nasueum, with that kind of figure.

And now even my attorney is saying there's going to be alimony too, and that is not figured out yet. Even though we have a short term marriage, since our pay is so 'disparate' to bad for me, she gets some support for at least several years to come.

From my perspective, the money is not so cut and dried, but it looks like the state will side with my STBXW.

We put out a ton of money 1.5 years ago, and now have some additional mortgages on some 'investment' property that basically has me flat out even on income/cashflow monthly.

The temp support order is forcing me to pay for the cost of STBXW's full housing/utilities during the duration of the D, but I have had to add 1500-1700 month so I have a place to stay for myself and d8 when I have her.

So, with that, I'll be underwater 1500+ a month, if I try to float the 'investments' that we put in my name only, and now STBXW is claiming absolutely no involvement in. My attorney's advice is to stop paying on them, as they have seen the court do that to other people in the past, force them into foreclosure on properties like that so childrens accustomed lifestyle is not impacted.

So, I will loose my inheritance money that we used to provide for those investments, and likely the real property itself, credit ruined, or forced to bankruptcy in a few months, while STBXW absorbs absolutely no financial impact, because she has never brought anything to our relationship financially since I started dating her.

The 609 per week in just CS is almost 2 times the gross pay my STBXW has ever earned on her own in her lifetime, let alone any spousal 'support' they decide to tack on top of that. She's gotten the new car, new boobs, gets to live in our marital home for free now during the duration of D, and heck the CS I will be paying could continue that with no problem for years.

I am just trying to come to grips with how anything at all positive financially I can dig out of this complete raping by the state and my STBXW.

I guess I can take some kind of perverse satisfaction that for all the talk of 'freedom' and needing 'space' and to be on her own, she can't do it without my financial support.

Well, I figured it is time to come back to my thread, and move from newcomers to here again, but for good now.

I moved out of my house about 2 months ago, and had little to no communication with STBXW since that time, and D process is full swing..

I have noticed she is actively avoiding me as well, so that is what it is. She makes sure she doesn't answer the phone when I call, and has d8 do that. I know she doesn't have call waiting, but knows what time I call. Last night when I called, she answered, but then I could hear her yelling across the room to d8 "I told you the phone was for you, why didn't you get it?"

Oh well. I am moving on for now, I have to spend time doing my financial paperwork and put down a bunch of stuff to take to L and start on our plan on what to offer for D.

I have been avoiding that, but need to buckle down and do it. It's just emotional when you sit down to put everything on paper, and look at finances as I am getting hammered financially, and try and piece all that together..

Well, I need to vent a bit, so I can then get back to focus on myself and d8...

Went to get d8 this AM, and as I am waiting to collect her stuff in 'our' old living room, my fabulous STBXW says:

"The disposal in the sink broke this week, and I had to have a plumber come and fix it, and it cost 230 dollar's so you'll need to give me that money."

WHAT!!! Are you friggin kidding me STBXW???!!!!

I remained civil in tone, but I was so effing mad, (Forgive the swearing, I just need to vent..) that I was shaking.

I told her, that is unfortunate, but you are responsible for these maintenance items now.

She attempted to say, no it's in the order that you are to pay. Um, no, that's not in the order, the order says specifically what I am to pay for, and maintenance is not on there, so your responsible for it.

Next up, she then goes back to when we went to court and that week I didn't give her any support money that week, so just pay the bill, and that will make up for it.

AAARRRGGHHHHHH.. I just want to go off on her at this point, but I don't, and just state to her.

Sorry, I will not be paying before we went to court I overpayed you for 3 weeks when I didn't have to give you any money at all, and asked you to pay the bills, and you couldn't even do that.

She then has the gall to tell me she has no money and can't afford these things..

WELCOME TO THE REAL FRIGGIN WORLD YOU Du...... ARRRGGHHHH, I just can't believe the mindset she has...

I then calmly state her, lets look at the facts, I am basically going bankrupt right now, had to take a loan to get myself on my feet, and you have a huge inheritance that you have in the bank..

To which she tells me, well I don't have much left of the inheritance, and need that to survive and can't really spend it.

DOUBLE ARRRGHHHHHH!!!!!!! She is saying this while I am staring at a huge pair of fake boobs she bought, and while standing in 'our' old house that I am paying for her to live in, and in the middle of literally THOUSANDS of dollars worth of new furniture she went out and bought..

At that point, I just said, if you want to talk any more about finances, we will do it when d8 is not around, then went to collecting her, petting my dog that I miss for a few minutes and getting out of there.

The whole time I just wanted to unload on her, and at the same time I gloating to myself a bit thinking this is what you wanted STBXW, I hope your enjoying yourself!!

Both of the feelings/thoughts above are NOT WHERE I WANT OR NEED TO BE RIGHT NOW. I don't want to be angry or gloating or anything else when it comes to STBXW. That's why I am venting here to get this out, so I can refocus on d8 and myself.

Vent away...and don't be too upset with yourself for your feelings, they are normal and warranted. It is commendable that you don't want to get stuck with them, but recognize them when they come and let them pass through.

Hope you have a great time with your D8!

I have been really active lately with after work stuff, every night has had something to do.

I joined a new gym, and taking BJJ lessons now, something I have always wanted to do, so really looking forward to that, just hope I am not to old to keep up with the young people!

I had an interesting conversation with the IC, I told him about the things above I vented about. He believes I handled it correctly as I could.

He did make a couple comments that I thought were interesting, if a little odd. After the discussion, I told him I do not want to be the man, or in the place, where I am angry or gloating over STBXW, and he agreed. He did say though, that you would be justified in asking her "how is this D working out for you?" As realities like the above that she is responsible for these things now. I told him, that in some respects that may feel good, but that no good would come of it, and I don't want to be that type of person.

He also stated, as he deals with cases like this on regular basis, and been in the field for years, and been working with me for a while, that she likely has someone else that she has been involved with for a while, at least EA, if not PA, so to not be surprised if I find that out. He also said don't be surprised if she is involved with someone who themselves is married as well.

I acknowledge and accept that is likely, but I told him I just don't want to know at this point.

I have over the last few weeks, caught myself thinking about, what if STBXW were to come back to me and ask to reconcile? My thoughts on that were somewhat suprisingly, no! I would not want her back currently.

I think I see her a bit more clearly now. I think I am progressing on the detachment front, as those thoughts have been genuine.

Damnit, I am doing well most of the time, and then something happens and I get sucked right back down!!!!

I had to go to d8's school today for assembly before they are dismissed for winter break, and as STBXW works there figure she would be there. She is not there for assembly, and I note that as odd, as she has never missed one before.

Then I see that SS17 is there to pickup d8 after school. That's odd, but I say hi, and he says STBXW is having surgery today.

Ugh. First thing I do is slip right back into emotion, and wonder oh no! Is she ok? What's going on? SS17 doesn't know, and then I realize it is probably an elective surgery then, if she has not let me know, so that I can take d8, and not let ss17 know either.

Damnit, I am ticked at myself for letting this emotion for her back in! I am all wired up now, wondering if she is getting more plastic surgery or tubes tied, or some such! God, I want to kick myself for letting this get to me!

I have no way of knowing what's going on, or what she is doing, so I have to let this go! It irks me that this bothers me so much again, when I had been doing well on letting things drop!

On the one hand though, if it's an elective surgery, and I am in the middle of D proceedings, I want it noted, in case that has financial impact to either of us during this time.

Well, picked up d8 on Sat AM, and I decided to ask my STBXW about the surgery.

I was concerned for her health, and so I asked compassionately just that ss17 had said you had to have surgery, are you ok? Not what it was, or why she needed it.

She said yes, and then told me what it was without me asking, that she had to have a revision surgery. I just acknowledged and said, oh, for your enlargement, and then she offered the explanation without me asking, that they had been causing her pain in some instances and needed to be adjusted.

I just told her that I had been concerned, and glad she was ok.

I went through the bills/mail, and she had inserted the cable bill there, so I just handed it to her, and said this is yours to pay. I don't even think she has read the courts temp order, or understands that she is responsible for this stuff, so I keep watch for things like this, as it keeps happening.

I played with my dog, who I realize that I miss a lot, she was so excited to see me, and was jumping all over me, and licking my face, and nearly knocking me over. I couldn't help it, but it made me laugh heartily, she is just a big rambunctious lovable bear! She was running laps in the kitchen and living room she was so happy, and nearly knocking STBXW's Christmas tree over! Darn funny at the time..

I left with some odd thoughts, and I understand where they are coming from, I was almost happy that those had caused her pain. I don't like that I thought that, but accept that I did, and again, I will be working on myself as I don't want to be the bitter man that wishes, or is happy, when she is in pain.

Well, today is one of those days that I wasn't sure how to handle.

Today is STBXW birthday, I made sure d8 had gifts and card to give to her mom from her, but I had no intention of marking the day as I have been completely dark with her, and given what has been going on between us for the last few months..

However, the more I thought about it yesterday and now, I decided to send a simple email with "Happy Birthday!" in it to her. It may not be the correct thing to do, but I feel ok about it, so did so.

Christmas is right around the corner, and I'll be setting up new traditions between me and d8. I am looking forward to Christmas with her, but also going to miss how we had always done Christmas morning as a family..

Good mornin'.

It's a b!tch that we're in the situations that we are. Nothing wrong with wishing her a happy birthday, and you feel OK about it...so no biggie. It's good for you to do things that are good for you and to you.

I hope you have a great Christmas with your daughter.

antlers

ps - I understand very well about you 'missing' some things that 'were'.

Thanks for checking in, Ant.

I hope you have a great Christmas as well!

Just jotting down some notes, as some things happened last night, and from other posters I have been following, and hope that anyone following keeps it in mind for there own sitch.

Dating: A dangerous DB game for yourself if your not careful.

I went on a date last night, I struggled with if I should or shouldn't, but she is a nice, attractive lady so I did.

We hit it off very easily, have a lot in common, and after a while, she made it known that she was VERY interested in me.

I got caught up in that for a while, after having been where I have been, and not having companionship, having my STBXW rejecting me for many months. It is easy to get caught up in the feeling good aspect of dating, and having someone show genuine interest in you!

However, realize, there are two people here, and I am in no way near or capable of any kind of relationship currently, and I know it.

That has to be out front, and clear, with any dating that you do, or you are going to hurt someone yourself, and that is not healthy!

If you do elect to date, do so with caution and caring!

Well, that's gonna be a part of our lives without our former spouses. I want to, and I'm ready...it's just not at the top of my priority list right now. I guess it'll happen when it does.

Wishing you a Merry Christmas with your daughter!
And even if you're not ready for the dating scene, I hope you still had a good time while you were out.
Bunny

Well,

I made it through Christmas better than I thought I would. Managed my emotions and had fun with d8 for the time she was with me.

D8 was amazing this weekend, and couldn't believe how 'many' Christmas' she had in one year! I have to smile at how well she handles things so far.

I took her to the Nutcracker ballet for one of her presents, and I can't tell you how much it means to me to just watch the wide open eyes, and expressions of awe and mystery she gets when she is watching the show. She sits nearly motionless the whole time, just taking in the whole spectacle, and I can't describe it in words to sit and watch her like that! Truly amazing!

I did catch myself wondering if STBXW was sad at all this weekend that d8 was not around. Several times. I tried to shoo those thoughts away as best I could when they came by.

I still had times when I thought back to Christmas' past, and I missed them: STBXW, SSon's, and d8 and our dog. I'll make new memories now, and keep those old memories for myself now..

I don't know what the road ahead has for me, but I'll manage the flat tires, and maybe break the speed limit when no one is watching once in a while...

I also realized that I broke proper etiquette by not properly opening the bar at the beginning of my StBD thread, so bar is now open!

I just mixed up a Silver Patron. Blue Curacao margarita on the rocks with salt for myself.

Anyone need to quench there thirst, step right up!

IWITW,

Just checked out your last couple of posts on this thread. I agree with the others in that I think you handled the recent sitch with your STBXW the right way. I also agree with your take on the dating issue. I've had some opportunities to date other women crop up recently and I just backed off completely for the same reasons you outlined. As much as I'm craving some female companionship I know I need to steer clear of that stuff for the time being. I'm not ready emotionally for any kind of R right now not to mention that I need to keep a clear head, focus on my kids welfare and get through the financial negotiations on my D.

Regarding getting back into bjj, good for you! It's funny you mentioned that because I have been thinking about looking into bjj myself. Either that or km. Here's the deal: I have been thinking for some time about a martial art that I can get S10 involved in for self esteem/character development. (I did Judo as a kid but I think bjj is better.) I'm thinking both S10 and I could do bjj together and it might help jump start an interest in sports. Then there is km. I've been thinking about km mainly for myself, for a couple of reasons, including the fact that I may wind up having a confrontation with OM in the future (of his own making, not mine). I'm 6-3, 250 lbs and supposedly he's slightly bigger than me and was a helluva wrestler in HS. I'm no slouch- I'm in good shape and not afraid of this punk- but I do watch UFC and see what these wrestlers can do once they get you on the ground. I think that km would probably have similar benefits for my S10 as mentioned above plus I understand it is much easier to master than bjj. I've heard that despite most fights going to the ground, bjj is overrated outside of competition and that if you need to stop a fight in the real world, km is the way to go. What are your thoughts?

BJ, Glad your back! Good to hear from you, and thanks for the comments.

I am a complete beginner when it comes to practicing martial arts, so if you have any training at all, you asking me is like Coach asking me for DB advice.

Funny that you ask though, as I have been following UFC since it's inception, and one of the popular referee's is nicknamed "Big John" and every time I see him now, I think of you.. LOL

Anyways, first, I seriously hope you do not have any kind of confrontation with the OM, for you and your kids sake, and if you think that is seriously a possibility, maybe you should inform that police ahead of time? Your kids don't need that on top of what is going on in your sitch right now, for sure. I hope that does not come to pass!

At 6'3" and 250, I doubt you have many people that bother you, so hopefully that will come to help you. Heck, I am only 6' and 190, and from what I have come to learn, people seem intimidated by me at times, although I don't see how, that is what they have told me. Everyone always thinks I am 6'2" or better when I am not. I have asked some people about it, and they say it's just a 'presence' that I seem to project, don't know about that, but I have yet to really have to get into phsyical altercations, and not why I am taking a Martial art.

That said, I can't speak to KM specifically, but it would seem a competent form for protection in the street, as that was it's basis in the real world, but I don't have any experience at all with it, or watching it, etc.

BJJ to me is also effective in real world scenario's. The objective is to neutralize any size advantage an opponent may have, while limiting your own exposure and risk, and to disable the opponent. BJJ locks and submissions if used outside the ring will cause devastating injury to joints, ligaments, etc, and that is the focus, through leverage and manipulation, where pure wrestling skills are not focused on that.

BJJ was born from Judo as well, so if you have background in that, it may help with BJJ as well.

So, last night, I was cleaning up the house a bit after Christmas, and found something that was worth noting..

My d8's aunt gave her a 'wishing' teddy bear as one of her presents, and as I am cleaning up last night, I found my d8 had drawn a picture and placed it behind the teddy bear.

The picture was the teddy bear, who was happy and saying 'yay' and a note from d8 saying that this was a great wishing bear. The teddy bear had a 'bubble' that was him wishing, and in that bubble was drawn every one of d8's family, including My STBXW and me standing together, d8 and both SS's underneath us. All of us happy.

I was heartbroken for d8 as I looked at that picture, understanding that she probably wishes her family was still together. It is tough to take, but I also understand that it is probably natural, especially as she processes in her own way what is happening. I will do whatever it takes to help her through this, as I understand she is hurting as well. I'll probably bring up with my IC, and see what he thinks next steps should be.

I wished it could be that we were a happy family also, but that is not to be, and I'll be fine, as I am sure d8 will be as well.

IWITW,

Just popping in tonight for a few minutes. Thanks for the feedback and I agree with everything you said. I'm not actively looking for a fight with anyone- my focus is on my kids and stabilizing my sitch- but there has been a lot of crazy trash talking going on with OM lately so I don't know what to expect. I'll definitely call the cops though if OM wigs out and tries something.

Regarding Big John McCarthy, funny you mention him but he was not the inspiration for my Divorcebuster name, it was actually a nickname my football coach gave me back in HS.

Happy New Year!

BJ, thanks for following along.

Happy new year, and I hope you can keep us updated soon on what is happening in your sitch. I find myself wondering if things are ok with you at times, and hoping you are making positive progress!

How is your son doing lately?

Well, for this start of a new year, it's a year to focus on me and d8, soon to be d9.

As I sit here and read other's sitch's, and reflect on the past week, I am feeling ok right now.

Picked up d8 today, and on the way there felt resentment build up over STBXW walking away again, with her new boobs, new car, and leaving me holding the financial bag. It is getting less and less that I feel these feelings but they do come at times. I acknowledge them and they do seem to pass after a while, especially after I have picked up d8, and gone on our way.

As I sit here tonight, tummy is warm and full after d8 and I made some home made pizza, and I just brewed a cup of coffee that was given to me by quite possibly a special female friend, and I am watching d8 now play on her new Wii.

My heart is warm tonight, that it's not a bad start today to a new year and decade, so that's where I will stay tonight, and not worry about tomorrow until it gets here.

Happy New Year to you and your daughter! I'm so glad you're getting to a more peaceful place in your heart and that you're enjoying your time with your daughter.

I see you and Big John are into the martial arts- I only got as far as green belt in Kajukenpo a few years ago when I had my knee surgery (I twisted it while sparring.) I've been nervous that if I go back, I'll mess up the other one, but it is tempting- I miss it!

Thank you for all your support and encouragement- I'm blessed to know you.

Hugs, Bunny

Thanks for checking in Bunny.

As for martial arts, I am really a beginner, but completely looking forward to sticking to my goal of learning this for better physical and mental conditioning.

I'd say go for it, if you can, if only light training to work around any injury issues. I think the mental aspect of it is truly the keystone, and building block, for forward progress in other areas of one's life.

Quote:

Thank you for all your support and encouragement- I'm blessed to know you.

Bunny, thank you once again. Coming from you this means a lot to me to have you stop by and offer your heartfelt words. I am truly touched tonight by them..

It's been a quiet weekend with d8, weather has been arctic all weekend, kind of like STBXW it seems.

Just kidding, I actually have a lot of positive things going, and just needed to laugh tonight, and probably shouldn't at my STBXW expense, but oh well, she can sue me. Oh, wait a sec, she is! LOL..

Anyways, I have been ruminating about my sitch, as I spent a lot of time this weekend putting together financial doc's for the L, and still have more to put together, and it's just kept my focus on STBXW and the sitch..

Ruminations On IWITW......

How is it, that things come to pass in such a manner? IWITW is reflecting on the past few years, and wonders how he came to be so different a person than he ever envisioned he would be? Angry. Hurt. Why was his life in shambles? How can it be, life was so cruel! Full of disdain, and taking it out on everyone but himself, lashing out, or even just silent and seething...

Truth be told, it's easy to see now, that IWITW took it out immensely on himself, and the inability to acknowledge and see through his own 'fog' fed into the cycle and burst the seems.

He can see it now so clearly, the real IWITW is edging out again, and while there is much work to do, he is looking at the 'surreal' past 10+ years in shock and awe.

It is to bad, his STBXW will not be around for the real IWITW, and only got a poor representation of him. She may be in her own 'fog' now, but it lifted IWITW's when that bomb dropped. It is unfortunate that there is also a lot of collateral damage from that bomb hitting it's target. Love, like war, is unclean and innocents get hurt when the shrapnel flies.

(Apologies to any armed services personnel for my imagery above....)

Well, that's enough reflection for IWITW for tonight, this week is going to be busy, but back to somewhat normal schedule after the holidays are now over, we'll see what this new year has to offer...

I can relate. I regret that she won't get the chance to be with me, now that I've made these changes, and experience the man and father that she always wanted me to be.

Well, it's time to move the wheel a bit..

Called my L to make the appt to go over financial information, and come up with proposal for STBXW and her L. If we can decide and agree on everything we can go to pretrial hearing and just git'r'done..

It will be me that has to push this, StBXW has no incentive whatsoever to push for the finish line, with me on the hook for finances currently.

Other than that, not much new to report, watching the snow fall a bit. Wishing things were different, but realize that STBXW would have to be different as well, so don't count on that..

Missed talking to d8 last night as she was in the shower, and typically doesn't call me back after, which is ok. Yeh, it hurts, but she knows I call.

StBXW picked up the phone when I called, and didn't seem happy at all, and I could tell she didn't want to be talking with me. Oh well, I asked her about d8 joining Kung Fu lessons and where she was taking them. StBXW was very suspicious of me asking, and just said in general where she was going. Whatever. I just told STBXW that I was proud of and happy for d8, and couldn't wait to talk to her about it.

StBXW softened up a bit after that, but I let her go as I could tell she wanted off the phone...

Sounds like your moving along on this with the right frame of mind.

Do you think that there's any chance she's dragging her feet because she's not really sure this is what she wants?

Quote:

Do you think that there's any chance she's dragging her feet because she's not really sure this is what she wants?

I'll acknowledge that this could be, however, when I find myself thinking along these lines, I need to stop and refocus on what I want.

If she wants back, she'll have to reach out, not me. She knows where I stand, for months I made that clear.

To be honest, I am approaching this as if she has someone else in her life already, and she never wants to be back with me. That makes it easier for me to return my thoughts to me and my d8 when I start to wander and wonder what she is up too..

I have been taking a bit of a break from the board, but have come back for a bit needing some advice.

My StBXW emailed me yesterday: She setup my d8 b-day kids party for the weekend of Jan 23rd. That was it in the email. That is a Saturday when I normally pickup d8.

Ok, so exactly what is she looking for me to respond with? Seems kind of odd to be put in this way, no questions, no info, just that statement. It is so like her though..

So, is she expecting me to email back and invite myself?

Is she expecting me to not reply?

Who knows, I know, but I have been wondering how to reply.

I had come up with this so far, but wanted some other DB'ers advice.

"Ok, I understand that you have setup the party for the 23rd. I will pickup d8 at a time after the party, or can pick her up Sunday if you want to keep her for that day. Please let me know."

I am not going to just invite myself, and to that point, I am not involved with this party setup, etc. I actually would prefer not to be there around StBXW at this time. I know it would be for my d8, but I am having a family party of my own next weekend for her.

We are in the middle of a D where she is trying to obliterate me financially, and don't feel like spending time with her at all. She wants to just be 'friends' and I am not on board with that.

I am assuming a bunch here, before I even reply, so I'll stop that for now, and hope you all have some thoughts for me on how to handle.

I'll try and catch up with some of your sitch's as well in the near future..

Since it's your day to have your daughter, go to the party, and stay in the background...just let your little one know that you're there. Be there for her.
Text her mother and say "OK, I'll see d8 on Saturday at the party then." Plan on taking the child back with you, unless she wants to stay. If she wants to go with you, then take her on your day as planned. If she wants to stay, then let d8 know it's OK, and tell her you'll pick her up on Sunday then.
Don't let the child's mom make the decision...forget your text in your above post. You make the decision. Your child's mom went ahead and made the decision, without any input from you, to schedule her party on your day to have her. Forget whether or not if she is expecting to reply...reply as I've said above. This is your decision...it's your response to a decision that she made without taking you into consideration.
Be strong for your kid. Good luck.

I understand your point Ant, and I'll probably drop my response above and at least reword it.

However, we have no set schedule for me picking up d8. We agreed that we will work with our schedules and allow flexibility when needed. I take my d8 every weekend, which is more than the 'normal' enforced schedule would be, but with implicitly stating between us that there may be days that one may want d8 for events, etc, because of this.

This is one of those cases, we spoke briefly about it a week or so prior, and I am fine with StBXW having her for the party. They will both have a great time!

With her email though, StBXW is waiting to see how I'll respond, no doubt, or she would state what she wants. It's an interesting position. If I go, she can say, 'see we can be friends' without actually saying anything about it, plus get me to help with a party I had nothing to do with.

I can go and just be there without helping, but that will be completely uncomfortable for all and take away from d8's b-day party.

Or, because I don't want to be around StBXW I can elect to not go, and pick her up after the party.

I am still giving it some thought, no decision yet, and thanks for your thoughts..

Is the party at home or in a public place?

Hey BND, it's in a public place..

IWITW,

Just catching up on your thread and I have to say I've had similar ruminations about things. Sounds like we are both in similar places emotionally and mentally.

Thanks for checking up on me. I posted an update under my thread when you have a chance to catch up. Regarding the birthday party for your D8, I'd consider just doing your own BD party for her, especially if you have family and/or friends in the area. I don't know if I posted or not my recent experience in December with my W over D4's BD party. Basically the kids and I had a very modest BD party for D4 on her actual birthdate as they were all staying with me at the time. My W had agreed to throw a "full" BD party for D4 that upcoming weekend at her place and I was invited. My W's turn to take the kids was the night before the party. The following morning, I wake up and call my W to see what she needs me to bring to the party and she informs me I'm not welcome at her house for the party after all because of my celebration with the kids earlier in the week. It was complete BS and a total power play by my W- at the expense of my D4. Needless to say, I learned my lesson.

I don't know what your STBXW has in mind for your D8's BD party, but no doubt she has her own agenda and it probably involves either showing you up (i.e. outspending you on gifts) and/or making you feel bad and/or uncomfortable. What if she uses the party as an opportunity to show of a new boyfriend? I know that thought probably hurts, but it may not be outside the realm of possibility.

Without knowing more, I think my vote would be for you to have your own BD party for D8.

BJ! Happy to see you man! I'll swing by your thread and check in on you in a bit.

As for my d8 BD plans, I already am planning a b-day party this weekend for d8 with Family in my area, and d8 is really looking forward to it.

I agree with you on your post, and am really leaning towards it, and just not towing to StBXW at all. I am going to send email that I will pickup d8 after party, and just end it at that. She can then decide how she will respond.

Got to check in on you now..

I would definitely say stay away if it was in her home, but a public place makes it a little more optional. Since you are already having a party with your family then I would probably stay away also, just keep things easier. I have tried to stick with the plan that less interaction means less drama. I do think it was inconsiderate of your X to plan it on your day as it decreases the amount of time you get to spend with your daughter. I think your plan to inform your X that you will be picking D8 up after the party sounds good. I have also found that less options given mkes things easier, just state your plan and go with it.

Seems like it's been a while since I have been checking in to the db forums, so updated myself on some of your sitch's, and adding some journal entries now on mine..

Went to L office last week, to try and get him to offer deal to stbxw to get this rolling. He was trying to say we have plenty of time before pretrial hearing, but I told him we need to work on this deal now, as I fully expect her to reject most of what we offer, and at least I will know where I stand. She won't make a move currently, why would she when she gets a free place to live, and support as well and gets to live the single life on weekends at my expense financially? Sad that I have to pay for all this when I didn't want it to begin with and the state is backing it up. Nothing I can do about it...

I decided I would not be going to party stbxw setup and emailed me about, so I just emailed her back last weel that I will pickup d8 2 hours after the party.

Picked up d8 this weekend, and stbxw tells me about 2 other kids parties coming up in the next two weekends that I need to take d8 to. I asked when she new about them, and she tries to say there was an invitation in the paperwork that she put in last weeks d8 stuff that came with her. I told her no, it was not in there, but she claims it was. BS. I check every piece of paper that comes to my place in d8's stuff, and it wasn't there. I double checked again when I got back, and nothing. Not an argument I am going to have, nor be able to win, I told her it wasn't there before, but she won't believe me. Oh well. Minor, but she has done this in the past in our relationship, and if she actually finds it with her stuff, will never acknowledge that she was wrong. Again, doesn't matter, but annoying..

Had d8's party this weekend, and it was a bit emotional for me, but manageable, as I was busy. She seems to have had a good time, and that is good. I tried to give her the best party I could, given limitations with fiances currently, and just be there as much as I can be for her.

We'll see where this week goes, d8 turns to d9 tomorrow AM, and at least I will have her to drop off at school, and glad I will be able to be around for her actual day she turns 9. Been a bit of a roller coaster the last few days, but now the holidays and birthdays are all past, and hopefully things begin to settle down into routines a bit now..

Seems like you handled the party the right way, imo. I've had that party stuff happen to me before and they'll never admit they're wrong so I gave up worrying about it, like you.

It is nice to have the holidays behind and getting back to "normal" makes things a little easier.

Well I'll be..

Emailed stbxw for particulars on b-day party that supposedly she had given me invite for d9 to go to this weekend that she swore she gave to me but I couldn't find in any papers she sent over..

She replied that she was sorry and the she just found them in her car..

First time for everything I guess..

Melancholy day today for me as d8 turned to d9 this AM. Wished things were different, but they are not, so I'll call on my way home to sing her happy b-day song. At least I did get to see and say happy b-day to her in person this morning..

iwitw,

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Melancholy day today for me as d8 turned to d9 this AM.

Yeah, that will sure do it under these circumstances.

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

I'll call on my way home to sing her happy b-day song. At least I did get to see and say happy b-day to her in person this morning..

That's nice, Dad.

IWITW,

Glad to see you went ahead and skipped STBXW's party and put together one on your own. That was the right move, IMHO. Regarding the holiday emotional roller coaster, I'm with you- glad to see the holidays over with although we do have Valentine's day coming up.

As far as your STBXW's pettiness, I can relate to that too. Seems my STBXW can't miss any opportunity to find anything to either criticize or complain about. Just yesterday while at work I got about five TMs from her frantically reminding me I needed to give D4 a bath before D4 came back over to her place this Wednesday. I don't know what that was all about- maybe she was trying to impress someone by showing them what a horrible dad I am. The good thing is that all of her pettiness and obnoxious behavior is have less and less an effect on me. Hopefully you are having a similar experience in your sitch.

Have a good week, I'll try to check in later.

I should probably 2x4 myself for sending an email to my stbxw that I just did...

Stbxw had emailed me about the other party, and I had asked the previous week if she just wanted to keep d9 so I didn't have to drive her all over the eastern seaboard of MA for my two days that I would have her.

In her email yesterday, she ended it with a statement that d9 would rather not go to the party then miss a weekend with me.

That did not set well with me overnight, and I kept coming back to it over and over.

I don't need to be reminded that I don't get to see my d9 everyday like I would like, but that decision was taken from me when you asked for D, stbxw. I have taken my d9 every free day I could since moving out, and have not had so much as a day of free time for myself, unlike you who is now living single on the weekends at my expense.

Just venting a bit, but I decided to email her back, and simply stated:

I do not need to be reminded that I don't get to spend as much time with d9 as I would like, and that if stbxw has plans herself to just say so.

That may be the wrong thing to do, and to antagonistic, but I don't care, nor care if she is pissed.

2x4 away on me all...

You're right you probably shouldn't have sent it...but I know sometimes we all have to let off steam. Of course that's where the detachment comes in, you wouldn't care what she is doing on the weekends (except for the money part of course).

IWITW,

I can certainly identify with your frustration, I am dealing with similar crap in my own sitch. We all have to blow off a little steam now and then and you can't expect to execute flawlessly 100% of the time. I don't know if the occasional irritation with our STBXWs will ever go away- probably not- but their power over us will diminish with time.

The email as described sounded more frank than antagonistic- I wouldn't dwell on it too much. No 2x4 from me on this one.

Thanks BJ and Dog,

I hope that you are well, and BJ, update us on your sitch when you can!

Journaling a bit.

It's little things at times that seem to catch me off guard at times.

Called d9 tonight, and no one picked up so it went to voice mail. STBXW has changed voicemail message in the past couple of weeks, and that caused some quick emotion when I heard it, but that subsided quickly as well.

She had always said she never wanted to put names in the voice message when we were together, so our recorded message was simply her saying "your have reached xxx-xxxx, leave a message"

She has now changed the message to state "You have reached stbxw, ss18 and d9, please leave a message" Using there first names.

Just seems odd that she has changed it to that. Is it so if I hear it, it is a shot at me? Is it so anyone calling now knows she is single, or that I don't live there anymore?

Oddly, I am not affected right now emotionally by it, just thinking about it in general. What she does is for her, and her reasons, and not about me, and that is fine.

Hey iwantittowork.

You're right. Whatever she does now is not about you. And whatever you do from now on should not be about her...at all! Who cares if it's a shot at you? I doubt that it is though! Who cares if it's so that other people know she's single? These are things that we have no control over...so why bother? Does it make sense to let stuff like this occupy real estate in our brains? Nope!

How are you doing?

IWITW,

I think the V/M greeting was one part jab at you and one part expression of your STBXW expressing her "independence". It's like when I caught my W wearing the same sexy bimbo outfit twice last week while picking up S11 at school. (I was picking up S10 myself.) I just know the boob job is around the corner once the D is final and she gets her settlement from me.

I swear, I don't think my W fully knows what to do with herself- perhaps your STBXW has the same problem. She just has the brain of a salmon with a single message message playing in an endless feedback loop: "It's just how I feel, It's just how I feel..."

Here's a question for you: Do you think your STBXW is wondering about some of the same things about you as you are about her? Just curious as I have often wondered the same myself in my own sitch.

Quote:

I just know the boob job is around the corner once the D is final and she gets her settlement from me.

Hey dude, at least yours waited until after moving out! I had to live with mine during the boob job, and man was that irritating!

Quote:

playing in an endless feedback loop: "It's just how I feel, It's just how I feel..."

Gospel truth there, and I heard it during the bomb months. "I just have to follow my feelings... I can't change my feelings...." blah, blah..

Quote:

Here's a question for you: Do you think your STBXW is wondering about some of the same things about you as you are about her? Just curious as I have often wondered the same myself in my own sitch.

This I wonder about, and then realize I am leaving to much room in my head for stbxw. I like to think so, but when I do, I realize it's really about me, and if she didn't, that somehow I would be less of a man or something, or if she did, would that make me happy in some way?

who really knows? I am not about to ask her, so waste of my time to wonder, so I just put those thoughts away, and move back to things I want to do for d9 and me, and move on..

Thanks for checking in, I always love your thoughts on my sitch, they make me think about things in a different way, which is healthy at times!

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Quote:

Here's a question for you: Do you think your STBXW is wondering about some of the same things about you as you are about her? Just curious as I have often wondered the same myself in my own sitch.

This I wonder about, and then realize I am leaving to much room in my head for stbxw. I like to think so, but when I do, I realize it's really about me, and if she didn't, that somehow I would be less of a man or something, or if she did, would that make me happy in some way?

who really knows? I am not about to ask her, so waste of my time to wonder, so I just put those thoughts away, and move back to things I want to do for d9 and me, and move on..

I'm doing the same thing. I refuse to give my H that much of my energy and time by wondering what he's thinking, feeling, doing, etc. And it's not even a conscious effort, I just don't think about him right now. Because "it just doesn't matter"... (Thank you, Bill Murray! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3S_k1dRbXY)

I don't think I even miss him now. I got my kids, my rabbit and my dog- that makes me pretty happy...

Bunny & iwantittowork,

Originally Posted By: SpyBunny

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Here's a question for you: Do you think your STBXW is wondering about some of the same things about you as you are about her? Just curious as I have often wondered the same myself in my own sitch.

Originally Posted By: SpyBunny

This I wonder about, and then realize I am leaving to much room in my head for stbxw. I like to think so, but when I do, I realize it's really about me, and if she didn't, that somehow I would be less of a man or something, or if she did, would that make me happy in some way?who really knows? I am not about to ask her, so waste of my time to wonder, so I just put those thoughts away, and move back to things I want to do for d9 and me, and move on..

I'm doing the same thing. I refuse to give my H that much of my energy and time by wondering what he's thinking, feeling, doing, etc. And it's not even a conscious effort, I just don't think about him right now. Because "it just doesn't matter"... (Thank you, Bill Murray! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3S_k1dRbXY)I don't think I even miss him now. I got my kids, my rabbit and my dog- that makes me pretty happy...

Good for both of you. Atta way! And Bunny, thanks for the Bill Murray. It was great and I needed it just about now.

Thanks G'man and Bunny,

Good to see you both, and wishing you peaceful days ahead!

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Quote:

Here's a question for you: Do you think your STBXW is wondering about some of the same things about you as you are about her? Just curious as I have often wondered the same myself in my own sitch.

This I wonder about, and then realize I am leaving to much room in my head for stbxw.

My answer exactly!

Today has been an oddity at times, so journaling about them.

So last night, I had a long dream that stbxw and I were getting back together. Ugh, those are annoying, but I understand it's probably just part of the process of getting over her, so I am not sad or angry, just accept that they still show up at times..

I try not to pay attention to what stbxw is doing while I am picking up d9, but it's hard not to notice these things..

Picked up d9 this AM, and the stbxw is oddly quiet when I pick her up. She makes a point to not attempt to even speak to me. Ok, whatever.

And once again, after about 5 minutes of wandering around the living room/kitchen while making sure to not speak to me, as I collect d9 and get her stuff ready, she goes and grabs her sunglasses again, and pins her hair up with them.

I just don't get that, it's several times that she has done this. It's like 10 degrees and cloudy out....

Oh well, these things don't effect me emotionally any more, I notice, just odd.

I miss our dog, and boy was she happy to see me! She is an Alaskan malamute that I swear has intelligence I have never seen in a dog before. She can barely contain herself when I come in, and runs in circles, and tries to press practically through me as she buts up against me to get close for some kisses and pat's!

The reason I am bringing up our dog, was as I was getting ready to leave, she was sitting on the couch watching d9 and I, and she let out these 2 whelps that I have never heard from her before, as if she was almost in pain/sad about us leaving, because she then jumped down and ran to the door to try and press past it to go out with us.

That was strange and sad, and I do miss her, she has so much personality!

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

And once again, after about 5 minutes of wandering around the living room/kitchen while making sure to not speak to me, as I collect d9 and get her stuff ready, she goes and grabs her sunglasses again, and pins her hair up with them.

I just don't get that, it's several times that she has done this. It's like 10 degrees and cloudy out....

Let me guess... the sunglasses- are they the big bug-eyed type? My STBXW does the same thing. I think they are mandatory accessories for all WAWs going through mid life crisis.

Speaking of accessories, does your STBXW like boots too? I've been seeing my STBXW running around with boots pulled up over her jeans lately.... wearing one of those white ski bunny bimbo jackets. Mind you we are in Northern California and it's presently in the mid-sixties. The first time I saw her in this costume I just about laughed out loud, she looked ridiculous, like someone ready to jump on a plane to Aspen. I think the only thing she was missing were the furry ear muffs and 4 foot long white wool scarf. Glad I didn't laugh though because afterwards I just felt bad for her- clearly her EA/PA has morphed into MLC. Sad and frustrating but again there is nothing either of us can do to help our Ws.

Quote:

I miss our dog, and boy was she happy to see me! She is an Alaskan malamute that I swear has intelligence I have never seen in a dog before. She can barely contain herself when I come in, and runs in circles, and tries to press practically through me as she buts up against me to get close for some kisses and pat's!

The reason I am bringing up our dog, was as I was getting ready to leave, she was sitting on the couch watching d9 and I, and she let out these 2 whelps that I have never heard from her before, as if she was almost in pain/sad about us leaving, because she then jumped down and ran to the door to try and press past it to go out with us.

That was strange and sad, and I do miss her, she has so much personality!

Excellent breed! My first dog as a young boy was a female Malamute. A very good, intelligent and fiercely loyal dog. Our 16 year old family cat passed away a few weeks ago and was clearly stressed this entire past year with the tension between my W and I. I feel for the pets almost as much as I do the kids in sitchs like ours- they are often very sensitive to the emotional dynamics in the household and have a hard time as well.

Hey BJ, thanks for Checking in man, hope you are well..

Quote:

Sad and frustrating but again there is nothing either of us can do to help our Ws.

True enough, and yes, my stbxw has been out shoe and cloth shopping. She came into our first court date in some really fine and nice spike high heel leather boots. In another dimension, I would have complimented her on them, but in IWITW's current world, not a chance.

However, I still am letting her have to much room in my head, so still a work in progress..

Wanted to post some other stuff:

At times, we lbs get paid visit by o'dog's black dog, and he hops up for some attention and growls while doing so..

For me, it's every few weeks when I have to sit down and deal with the financial mess, and then pay for my stbxw's bills in 'our' old house. I have had to start fending off banks for payments now, and dealing with weekly calls from them, and wondering where I am going to get money to keep them at bay. I also look to my bank balance, and hope to have money to pay for groceries, and that my car doesn't break.

Having to live with the reality of someone else's decisions like this, is a time for that black dog to maul me, and tough to fend off...

It's a reminder to us all, that we are not 'rocks' but we are human, and we also have feelings and emotions that must be dealt with. We can DB as best we can, cope with the decisions we have in front of us.

We must accept these emotions, rather than suppress them, as these situations are not easy, are not totally of our making, and are certainly understandable given where we are.

Being mindfully aware of them, is the process to move through them. Understanding the thoughts that generate them help to become mindful of them, and allow them to exist without giving them destructive power over us.

Not every day will we be perfect, or perfectly mindful, but even that is a chance to be mindful with yourself, that you are human and not perfect, and accept your faults and feelings as part of who you are.

I hope to become better of mindfully managing these feelings, and in turn being a good role model to pass along to my d9.

I may not be perfect at it, but perfection is not the goal.

To steal line from Snarch, my goal is to:

"Tolerate discomfort for personal growth"

It hurts man, plain and simple. We used to be married...we used to be a family! I understand your visits by the black dog. We didn't choose this...but it's what we got. We gotta handle it with strength, wisdom, unconditional love, and compassion...for ourselves and our kiddos!

That is the truth Antlers, and acceptance that your human and will have good and bad days is key as you work your way through the process.

And it certainly is a process..

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

That is the truth Antlers, and acceptance that your human and will have good and bad days is key as you work your way through the process.

And it certainly is a process..

Yep, and that's what I'm experiencing.

Iwantit.....you're very wise!

Hi nikblondview,

Thank you for the compliment. I certainly don't feel that way, battle tested maybe, but just like a lot of other things, it's a work in progress..

Thanks for stopping by my thread, I hope you are doing well as can be. I'll try and read up on your sitch, and see what's happening!

Great post, iwitw. I got a lot out of it. Thanks.

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

At times, we lbs get paid visit by o'dog's black dog, and he hops up for some attention and growls while doing so..

For me, it's every few weeks when I have to sit down and deal with the financial mess, and then pay for my stbxw's bills in 'our' old house. I have had to start fending off banks for payments now, and dealing with weekly calls from them, and wondering where I am going to get money to keep them at bay. I also look to my bank balance, and hope to have money to pay for groceries, and that my car doesn't break.

I empathize. My exact situation. And getting worse daily.

But:
1) It isn't killing me (or hasn't yet

) so it must be making me stronger!
2) This is the financial crisis of my life and I am determined to prevail.
3) And I am determined to reverse it completely
4) Like everything, this, too, shall pass. "All Things Must Pass": George Harrison

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

It's a reminder to us all, that we are not 'rocks' but we are human, and we also have feelings and emotions that must be dealt with. We can DB as best we can, cope with the decisions we have in front of us.
We must accept these emotions, rather than suppress them, as these situations are not easy, are not totally of our making, and are certainly understandable given where we are.
Being mindfully aware of them, is the process to move through them. Understanding the thoughts that generate them help to become mindful of them, and allow them to exist without giving them destructive power over us.

Not every day will we be perfect, or perfectly mindful, but even that is a chance to be mindful with yourself, that you are human and not perfect, and accept your faults and feelings as part of who you are.

I may not be perfect at it, but perfection is not the goal.

To steal line from Snarch, my goal is to:
"Tolerate discomfort for personal growth"

Wisdom, friend. Pure wisdom. Thank you.

p.s.I like your signature line. My take on it has always been

"Pain becomes suffering only when we do not accept it."

Peace.

Well I've learned a lot from reading your posts and try to soak in the advice.

I usually review and post to others before posting to my own sitch, but need to drop some notes down, and you all can start swinging..

I was 15 mins late picking up d9 this AM, and the stbxw has d9 calling me asking me where I am, and if I am coming to get her.

It just set me off this am. Sorry I am interrupting your life stbxw, by being a few mins late due to snow, house stuff, etc. It just set me off on top of feeling stuck in limbo financially, and getting crushed by her and the state financially. I walked in pissed, and sure it was obvious, collected d9's stuff and told d9 to meet me in the car.

Just not a place I want to be in.

So then this afternoon in a complete utter horrible decision, I snoop on stbxw's email. Why, I don't know, I just must be in a really bad place right now, just dealing with this financial chaos and just not having had a break in months. Doesn't even matter, I did it, and it's my fault. What has been seen can't be unseen, and all that. So stbxw pursued and is now sleeping with d9's kung fu teacher.

So what the hell good does that do me? Great, after reading what she wrote in an email, and not hearing those things myself in 15 years of R with her, does that mean I was unattractive to her all along? or less of a man than the current one she is sleeping with?

Who knows. I wish robx was here, to just smack me in the head and say wtf did you do that for?

So, I am as weak at times as I had hoped not to be. However, it does go to show that this thing is just over, as I knew it was, and she probably was, or is not, the person I thought she was.

It changes nothing. I know I have had self esteem issues for a while, and that is nothing to do with her, but myself, and where I need to focus my time and energy.

All, let them 4x4's fly, and dig me out of this mess. After months of getting hammered financially, and feeling like I am stuck, I just let it get the better of me.

I actually do not feel as bad as I thought I would, just know that I have many areas to still work on, for myself. I wished I had the confidence and charisma to feel safe and secure approaching women. Why is that such a hard thing to deal with?

I can jump out of an airplane, race cars, driven a motorcycle at over 170mph, and yet I am afraid of women, approaching them, fear of them rejecting me, etc. Sheesh, that seems like a mountain of stuff to deal with..

One step at a time, I suppose...

I'm not sure that you need 2x4's from anyone else, it sounds like you're doing a good job on yourself! You already know that you need to spend your time and energy on yourself and your daughter, not stbxw. I hope you find yourself soon in a better, calmer place than where you were this afternoon.

Also- has your atty seen any possibility of getting the financial orders re-worked so that you're not being crushed? I can't believe the courts are willing to let a parent to fall into bankruptcy. (Side note- as a woman, I really don't get your stbxw, or any of these other women with a sense of entitlement- the only support I get from my H at the moment is health insurance and I feel a bit guilty receiving that- I'm on my own for everything else.)

Take care of yourself and D-
Hugs- Bunny

Hey IWITW.

Man, I'm sorry. I know it hurts. And just because your self esteem is low right now doesn't mean it's gonna stay that way! Know this...what she's done has absolutely NOTHING to do with you! It has everything to do with her! Drop it like a hot rock! Don't take on anything that you're not responsible for...and you are NOT responsible for what she's doing with this guy! Stop giving your energy away by snooping and such.

You've given us tons of good advice here man...so, follow your own advice! We can't give you any better advice than you've given us...it's THAT good! You know what to do here man. And you know the right attitude to have...so do it! We are here for ya'...to vent, for support, whatever. You are a wealth of good advice for many of us here...so I know you have the 'know-how' to handle this.

I am on your side 100%.

As for your self-esteem...it's there, you just gotta get in touch with it. You were born with all the inherent value you'll ever have...and it's abundant! And NOTHING your wife, or anybody else says or does or doesn't do can affect that! It's everything that is good and strong about you...it's there...always! You just gotta stay in tough with it! If you're feeling low, it's because you're out of touch with it...but it's there. A suggestion...read up on core value. There's a whole chapter on it in the great book Love Without Hurt by Steven Stosny. This book will definately help you.

Stay strong, and honor yourself.

In the history of crappy weekends in IWITW's life, this one has got to take the cake..

Woke up at 4:30 am and couldn't fall back to sleep with the memory of yesterday still ringing in my head..

So, I planned on taking d9 skiing today just to do something with her, and she was excited to go.

In my mail is stbx's Oil bill and yearly oil contract renewal to the tune of $900 dollars I have to come up with.

Hop in my car, and the transmission has blown. Un freakin believable. I have 350k miles on this car, from commuting for 8 years to support my family, and now it gives out. I have friend in the field that can get me a used tranny, but he and I will have to do the work ourselves, to the tune of another grand in 2-3 weeks we can get to it.

Well, I have a secondary summer car, a convertible mustang gt, not exactly fun to drive in the winter up here, but I will have to make due. Well, hop in and battery is dead. Figure it's just from sitting, so jump it from the other car, pack up d9 and ski's (Try fitting 176cm ski's in a convertible. NOT FUN..) Stop for gas, and when I go to start it back up. Dead. Great. It's Sunday and the station garage is closed, so no-one has jumpers. So, d9 and I hang in car waiting for AAA for an hour to jump start it. Go buy a new battery, to the tune of another $100 bucks, then have to put it in outside in 20 degree weather. Friggin unbelievable.

Putting new battery in, I find that the negative terminal is shot, so have to go back to parts store, and of course they don't have a matching one, so I have to hack in a generic one. Nice..

I finally get d9 to the ski area and at least get a couple hours in, to fulfill what I promised, and for a bit, I at least laugh as she is having a blast.

I don't mean to brag at all, or make light of other's with less than I have, but I make a 6 figure salary, and I am running around like a teenager trying to keep a frigging car on the road, and can't pay my bills, and not from really a place or position of my own making entirely, and that is a tough to deal with...

Heard enough whining yet??

*sigh*

Now, back to more personal issues...

I realize now, that I needed to find proof of what I already know, and why I checked stbxw's email. Our MR is dead. Was dead. Was never really alive in the 15 years we were together, despite what I thought I knew.

What I also realize is why it hurts so much. Not because she is with someone else, but because she is NOT with me. There is a difference. The pain is from realizing I was not able to give her what she needed from a physical or emotional standpoint.

That is why your self esteem takes a hit, and why it hurts. That is about me, not her.

Well, I surely hope that someday I can find someone that I can meet the needs of, and vice versa. That is hard to think about, at 40+ years old.

For now, I may just watch the football game and crack a beer and snuggle with d9 and hope that it just all goes away....

At least for tonight..

I am glad that you and your daughter still managed to get some fun in after all that- you more than deserved a little fun at that point!

Quote:

The pain is from realizing I was not able to give her what she needed from a physical or emotional standpoint.

Did she ever tell you what she needed? It's a two-way street- you can't blame yourself if she didn't.

Hugs, Bunny

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

*What I also realize is why it hurts so much. Not because she is with someone else, but because she is NOT with me. There is a difference. The pain is from realizing I was not able to give her what she needed from a physical or emotional standpoint.

That is why your self esteem takes a hit, and why it hurts. That is about me, not her.

Hey IWITW.

"The pain is from realizing I was not able to give her what she needed from a physical or emotional standpoint." Maybe you WERE able to IWITW, and you didn't...for whatever reasons! There is a difference between 'not being able' and 'not doing it'! Sometimes we don't do what we should do, plain and simple. We make mistakes. We have our own problems that don't have anything to do with our spouses, yet they are the ones who we take those problems out on...so to speak. But we can learn, and grow, and not make those same mistakes ever again! You're kicking your own butt, and I understand that. I really do.

The utter rejection also hits your self-esteem hard. And it hurts, along with the knowledge of our own mistakes. I really do understand the feelings you're having. All one can do at this point, other than feel what you are, is put forth a big effort to get better and stronger. Be the best dad you can be, and be the best IWITW you can be.

You are a good man.

Please go visit Gypsy.

Thanks for poking me for that Gardener, I was completely out of computer range yesterday for a vendor conference, but dropped by Gypsy's today to offer what I could.

Iwant......
I know what you mean about the self esteem...although we each are responsible for our own, it's entirely understandable we feel this way given what each of us have been through. For me, after I found out about my H affair with my exbest friend I felt utterly in adequate in every sense. I felt unattractive, oh yeah I could go on and on about it. Felt like why wasn't I enough? Now I'm trying to grasp that maybe just maybe someone will want to be with me and maybe even love me.

Hey Bunny,Ant nikblondiew and others that have stopped by.

Thanks for your thoughts, and keeping me on your mind given you all have your own sitch's.

I have been struggling to sleep, and waking up the last few mornings really early, and having night sweats again. Not a good place to be. I know this will pass, but it's taking longer than I would hope.

It is tough to keep focus off stbxw, but I am trying with all I can. It seems like she is 'winning' with whatever that means right now. Financially, and now personally she has a new love. I know I can not focus on this though, so just pushing it aside to refocus on me, d9, and what we need.

Been trying to stay as upbeat and busy as possible, but I also need to push forward, so I called my L today, to try and get him to make some progress on an agreement, but no call back yet. That is frustrating as well, but nothing I can do about it.

I am not feeling comfortable with my L, so I am going to a consultation with another one, just to get second opinion. If they say, your L is doing the best he can for you, then so be it, I'll feel better that I at least am trying.

I am also investigating trying a new IC, and will talk with my current IC about going there for a while. This new one is familiar with 'Nice Guys' and I feel like I am stuck right now, and looking for some changes to get 'unstuck'

I know I have made good progress, and don't want to discount that, I just want to take some next positive steps in my life.

Boy am I tired...

Hey IWITW.

Just don't internalize what she's done. People have their own reasons for doing what they do. It's not about you. It's about her. Her reasons for doing this have NOTHING to do with you. So don't internalize it. I know it hurts. Bad. Let it go...hard as it is...let it go. We're more than willing to forgive others and love them...we ought to be AT LEAST that willing to forgive ourselves and love ourselves! Do it.

IWITW,

Just catching up on your thread as I've been out for a bit. Sorry to hear about what has been going on lately with you. I second the advice Antlers has been giving you. If it's any solace, I've been having some similar issues with stuff breaking around here that I've either fixed or paid to have fixed. When it rains it really does pour.

I have more to say about your recent events but it's late and I am bushed- been very busy at work, at the house and with the D stuff. I'll try to pop back in when I get a chance. Do not beat yourself up over what you read in that email. I've had several friends and acquaintances in the Family Law arena who have all said that divorcing women in particular will lie like a rug to anyone who will listen to them about how supposedly "bad" their ex-husbands were- in every respect. Making the first guy they are with feel like Mr. Big Shot at the expense of their ex-husband (and the truth) is part of their shtick- you just have to recognize it for what it is.

Take care and I'll talk to you soon.

Thank you all for sticking with me, and offering advice.

I slept better last night, but still exhausted today.

I am assuming that in my mind there was still some hope or shred that we could still have gotten back together. I don't want that now that she has been with someone else. I don't like who she is currently, nor what she has been doing.

I realize that I am feeling still unworthy of my stbxw, and below her, and still feeling guilty for all the things I did to bring about the end to our R, and that keeps me 'stuck' I have to let go and forgive what I did, and focus on creating the best life I can.

That piece is hard to do, when I am still responsible for my stbxw financially, and it keeps me tied to her. Hard not to focus on her and what she is doing, as I am paying the bills for the house she lives in.

To help move on from that, I need to refine and refactor my life into what I want. Goals will help there.

So, I am going to try and list some short/mid term goals to come back to, and help keep me focused. This is just first pass, will probably need to refine or redefine them, and add/remove.

I'd be interested in critique/thoughts on my goals list if you have any.

Goals -
D9
- Continue to find things to do with d9, while she is here with me.
- Continue solidifying my relationship with d9, discussion of feelings, acceptance for who she is, unconditional love. Already meeting this goal!!
- Call as close to every night that I can. I am meeting this goal, and glad that I can talk to her as much as possible, if only for 5 minutes a day at this point - Already in Progress.
- Over the next few months find more groups to meet up with that have kids in mind to do things, find new friends in my new neighborhood, and new friends that d9 can connect with as well.

Fitness -
Goal - Reduce my body fat content to lowest level I can, and get into as good a physical shape as I can, or actually have ever been.
- First, acknowledge that I have done a lot here in the past year, lost 50 lbs, and gotten back to 190lbs.
- Eat healthier, and learn more about nutrition to take my fitness to a higher level.
- Exercise - Continue 2 days a week BJJ training, and possibly add the 'Strength and Condition' 1 weekly workout IN PROGRESS
-- Weight loss is not my goal, but fat loss now, and conversion to lean muscle IN PROGRESS
- Regular and scheduled dentist and doctor visits for checkups. GOAL MET LAST YEAR!!

Personal-
- Continue IC on at least bi-weekly basis. Investigate if new IC would be good fit and crossover to further personal growth
- Continue Group C weekly to increase my intimate relationship building
-- Reduce anxiety, feelings of worthlessness and work on feeling that I DO deserve great relationships with people that respect and appreciate me.

Relationships
- I know what type of women I am attracted too. Tall, athletic, blond or auburn hair.
-- Work on feelings that I do deserve relationship with the type of woman that I want in my life, and I am worthy of a good relationship.
-- Don't settle for someone or something just because they are available, and I don't want to be alone.

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

I realize that I am feeling still unworthy of my stbxw, and below her, and still feeling guilty for all the things I did to bring about the end to our R, and that keeps me 'stuck' I have to let go and forgive what I did, and focus on creating the best life I can.

I completely understand, and empathize, how you feel. I say this from my own experience. It's odd that we are so willing to forgive others, yet we have such a hard time forgiving ourselves! In truth, we should be just as willing to forgive ourselves, and put forth the required effort, as we are to forgive others!

Iwant:

Work on feelings that I do deserve relationship with the type of woman that I want in my life, and I am worthy of a good relationship.
-- Don't settle for someone or something just because they are available, and I don't want to be alone.

Those are my big areas too right now. Realizing that I deserve to be treated with respect and I am worthy of being happy and with a good person, like I am.

iwitw,

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

I know I have made good progress, You have. and don't want to discount that, I just want to take some next positive steps in my life. I hear you.

Boy am I tired...How could you not be?

Hang in.

iwitw,

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

I wished I had the confidence and charisma to feel safe and secure approaching women. Why is that such a hard thing to deal with?

I can jump out of an airplane, race cars, driven a motorcycle at over 170mph, and yet I am afraid of women, approaching them, fear of them rejecting me, etc. Sheesh, that seems like a mountain of stuff to deal with..

Me, too, though I am getting better as I put less and less thought and emphasis on the result. I just aim to interact. And perhaps move on, perhaps not. A friend recently told me don't try to impress. Just enjoy. Also told me don't just talk, be like a reporter and interview. Ask questions. People love to talk about themselves and like to think that someone is really interested. Sounds like pure common sense.

Ladies, you're thoughts on this?

Well,

I have not posted much, as I have just been scraping along on a day to day basis.

I met with new IC on Monday, and I really liked him. Felt an immediate connection, where he knows the 'Nice Guy' syndrome, and had very good things to say.

It was his discussion that made me realize that I don't have what I think is a 'complete' or 'comfortable' connection with my current IC, and maybe why I feel 'stuck'

I need to investigate that, and discuss with my IC, and decide if I want to try and switch IC's.

My other news brings me to my subject line, and why I am posting an update.

L called, and is scheduling our 4 way meeting for next Monday the 22nd, where we are supposed to hammer out the financial agreement for the D.

Just thinking about that, and discussing with L is making my stomach turn, and I am really anxious. I need to get this over, so I can figure out what do do next, but I am scared as well as to what will happen.

STBXW has a new love interest, so I must get this done, so I can move on. That's the only thing I can think of to help me past the current 'stuck'

I don't know what to expect in that meeting, sitting across from her and deciding my financial future..

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

- I know what type of women I am attracted too. Tall, athletic, blond or auburn hair.

So you would know if you're attracted to a woman based on a photograph? Really?

IMO, part of the problem that men have with approaching women is that they often don't have the self-awareness to know what they truly enjoy about themselves and about women. If you know what you really enjoy in women, you will know when you see it and you will be able to relax and be your wonderful self. If you are interacting with women on a two-dimensional basis, you will feel totally uncomfortable because you are not responding to more than what would be encompassed in a police description of that woman.

Originally Posted By: Gardener

I just aim to interact. And perhaps move on, perhaps not. A friend recently told me don't try to impress. Just enjoy. Also told me don't just talk, be like a reporter and interview. Ask questions. People love to talk about themselves and like to think that someone is really interested. Sounds like pure common sense.

Ladies, you're thoughts on this?

See purple above.

Thanks for your comments flowmom!

Quote:

So you would know if you're attracted to a woman based on a photograph? Really?

Your right, no, and that was not the point I was getting at, but I see your point above.

I love the rest of your post, and like that it framed things I know, in a way I had not thought about before.

IWITW,

Just thought I'd pop in to see how you are doing. I like the goals you outlined a couple posts back- the relationship goals in particular caught my eye.

First off, you are absolutely worthy of a great R with the type of woman you want. Don't let your STBXW take that away from you or let this D define you as a man. I hate to see you struggle with feeling beneath your STBXW and unworthy of her because of all that has happened. It's not right. Speaking from experience, it's really the other way around- she does not deserve you. Please give yourself credit.

Secondly, a question: Have you checked out any of the online dating sites yet? If not, I suggest you start. When things were really bad last summer and it appeared that D was becoming a real possibility, I started visiting a couple sites to get acclimated and see what it was like being single again after almost 20 years. I never tried to get together with anyone but I did read quite a few profiles. What I have gotten out of the experience thus far is that there are a lot of quality women out there that are compatible with me, many of whom are also pretty but may not have all of the most desirable features I prefer (i.e. blue eyes but with brown hair instead of blonde). So my advice is to consider being a little more broad minded about who it is you are looking for- but not so much where you settle for someone just because you don't want to be alone.

It's late and time to sign off. Hang in there and I'll talk to you soon.

BJ, thanks again for stopping by..

I do feel I am struggling, but that is from my 'Nice Guy' issues, and I know it.

Flowmom alluded to guys not being 'self aware' enough to know what they bring to the table when approaching women. I thought about this, but believe in my case, I am far too self aware, and wind up focused on the negatives I bring with me when approaching women vs the positives. That is a 'Nice Guy' trait, and I am hoping that being aware of that will help me work through it..

I did sign up for some dating sites, and just as you to just see what is out there, and I have been amazed at the women that show up as single. I have reached out to a few, but no response so far, so wonder if they are truly out there, or if again my approach needs work.

Last night was a tough night for sleeping again, as I was dreaming of stbxw again. However, the last dream I had before alarm went off, I went off on my stbxw, screaming at her in anger for everything that has happened.

I actually felt good after waking up, like I had actually unloaded those anger feelings on her. That just points out I still have a lot of anger to work through, I accept that, and will work on it.

Hi IWITW.

When you're in touch with your core value, you cannot do wrong. Remember that. Especially when you're interacting with others, like women. Just stay in touch with your core value, and you don't have to worry about focusing on the negatives, or anything else that you do or don't bring to the table when approaching women. You can never lose core value, but you can lose touch with it. So, stay in touch with it, always, and you cannot do wrong.

Don't make assumptions either. You don't know what they're thinking or not thinking. And besides, it doesn't matter. Don't take it personally. What others do or think is because of themselves. Nothing others do is because of you. A lot of the crap in our lives is because we make assumptions and take things personally. Think about that for a minute. Most of the crap between people is about making assumptions and taking things personally.

My life could not get more surreal at times than if I were in a Hitchcock movie..

I just sat in a 4 way meeting with STBXW and her L and mine, and after about 20 mins of conversation, my L kicked her L and STBXW out of his office..

W..

T..

F...

I don't even know what to say at this point, I am just stunned....

When it got time to ask for what STBXW and L wanted, they wanted STBXW and d9 to stay in house until d9 turned 18, and that I would pay for the house, and then pay her alimony on top of that, and half our 'assets'

Of course, once again, her inheritance was not listed on financial disclosure, but she has spent 35k of that 50k she got, on Car and new boobs.

I guess we will be going to court, and she can testify to that fact, and that she thinks I need to pay for her home as she can't..

I don't understand it. I really don't...

To say I am shocked would be an understatement.

This is going to drag out and get really ugly, when I don't even want that, I just want out of this with some of my hide intact, and I am not even being spiteful to her..

The abject cruelty and selfishness of these WAS's still stuns me. - Kimmie Lee

Count me as one of the stunned ones...
I hope this starts to turn a little more your way soon-
Hugs, Bunny

iwitw,

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

My life could not get more surreal at times than if I were in a Hitchcock movie...my L kicked her L and STBXW out of his office..

Surreal is right. Good Lord. At least you apparently selected a lawyer with some Testicular Fortitude.

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

This is going to drag out and get really ugly, when I don't even want that.. and I am not even being spiteful to her.

Why does it always seem to have to become...such...Madness?!?

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

I just want out of this with some of my hide intact

You'll come out with more than just some of it.
More importantly, you will come out of this with your integrity intact.
Hang in there, iwitw.
Endure.

All, thanks for your thoughts.

I am woefully behind on your sitches, but I have just been exhausted the last couple weeks with everything that is going on, on top of busy at work just to support stbxw and myself, etc, etc.

One thing that I did find odd in our meeting yesterday was on a personal level. I looked at stbxw, and was very surprised that the feeling that I did not think she was that attractive passed through me.

iwitw,

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

I looked at stbxw, and was very surprised that the feeling that I did not think she was that attractive passed through me

Same here. That same revelation hit me a couple of months back. And not just on a physical level: her actions, values, priorities, her personality, loss of decency, etc.

IWITW,

Sorry to hear about the results of your recent 4-way meeting. Talk about a screw job. Kudos to your L for throwing STBXW and her bottom feeding L out of his office!! I hope you are getting whatever help you can from any Father's Right's groups out there. If it's any solace, I just got a copy of the appraisal for our house done by an appraiser hired by my STBXW's L and saw that he valued the house by $125K more than my Realtor. So I'm a little busy right now picking apart that piece of $h*t.

Also, you are not alone on another point you brought up: I'm starting to see my STBXW in a similar light as you are with yours.

Keep fighting the good fight. I'll try to check in later.

HEY IWITW.

JUST CHECKING IN ON YOU. CONTINUE TO ASK 'HIM' FOR STRENGTH AND WISDOM IN DEALING WITH EVERY FACET OF THIS CRISIS YOU'RE IN.

Originally Posted By: Gardener

Same here. That same revelation hit me a couple of months back. And not just on a physical level: her actions, values, priorities, her personality, loss of decency, etc.

I think that is the eye opener for many LBS's. We look at the person we once loved and trusted, and see a person we no longer respect or trust. We see a person who threw away all the values we thought they had. Most WAS's seem to become totally different people than the ones we were married to, or maybe we finally see what might have been there all along. I know that in my marriage, the things that really started to tear us apart were there for a long time, I just made excuses and avoided dealing with them. I look at what a self-centered, materialistic, controlling person my X is, and I can go back now and see that those traits were there, I just never addressed them.

You know, I met up with XH @ my daughter's Preschool Parent Night Tuesday.

He got there and I looked him in the eye and then looked at his face and he hardly looks like the guy I remember. I think I hadn't really LOOKED at him in a while...he looks tired, old, and depressed. Not the most attractive picture...

I look at my X's face and I see selfishness and meanness. I guess in some way it was always there, I just didn't want to recognize it. The only time his tone turns nice or his face seems to soften is if he wants something. Ick

Hey BBJ, and BND, thanks for stopping by and I understand where you are coming from.

Hey, I have a question for some of you nice ladies, as I seek to understand women more, and clear away my own confusion, communication issues, etc..

Yesterday, after working out, I wound up in the elevator with a very attractive lady who had been in the gym at the same time. I am attempting to work beyond my issues of self confidence, etc, so I put myself out there a bit, and just introduced myself, and said I had seen her in the gym a few times, and started a brief chat on her workout and running as an exercise program.

I notice that all of a sudden she actually got nervous or shy, and actually blushed deeply, or was very embarrassed, as her face turned red and she started looking at her feet, and when her stop on the elevator she said a quick good bye and practically sprinted out the door.

My old self popped up, and I assumed I had said something wrong, or embarrassed her in some way, or she thought I was hitting on her, or she was afraid of me, etc.

I had been just analyzing bit, and wonder about a woman's perspective on interaction like this, as I try and make improvements in my communication and interaction with women to grow in this area more.

I'm not a lady, but I think you did good! You didn't do anything wrong. Keep it up. Good for you. Remember, whatever she did after you "put yourself out there" was because of her. It was NOT because of you. DON'T TAKE ANYTHING PERSONALLY. And don't make assumptions either. You have no idea why she acted the way she did, and you don't know what she thinks or feels either. Just know that her reaction WAS NOT because of you! She might be flattered, shy, insecure herself, whatever! Who knows?

Keep doing things like that man! Good on ya'!

Don't blame yourself, she is obviously shy. I guess all you can do is continue to be friendly and hopefully the next woman will be outgoing!

Thanks again for your comments, and I am still working on myself on those issues.

So, tomorrow we were scheduled for our Pre Trial conference, and now stbxw's L has asked to postpone due to family issues.

Great, so now that is getting pushed to April some time hopefully.

I am really struggling with anger this week, Monday AM was snow/sleet/rain, and I had to bring d9 back to school, and then to work in a car that shouldn't really be driven in the rain, let alone the snow, as I can't afford to fix the other car yet, and now that car has an engine problem, was misfiring in the rain.

I spent 3+ hours in the car commuting and trying to keep the car running so I can get to work to pay for my stbxw current lifestyle and a place where I can live with d9.

I was so angry I was shaking when I got to work, and glad that I had IC and Group IC yesterday so I could just vent.

I so do not want to be angry and bitter, and trying to fight that as best I can, and now we are getting delayed again. Tough to take.

You know, this really is the most unbearable crud at times.

So just got email from Attorney, and the first thing that grabs you is the subject.

"My Lastname Vs. My Lastname" Bizarre.

Then to read the letter to find out they rescheduled my Pretrial conference smack in the middle of May instead of April when I am scheduled for 3 weeks of work in Australia.

I want to effing scream at times....

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

You know, this really is the most unbearable crud at times.

Yep, it is.

Read something earlier today that said "the best way to say 'I love you God', is to live your life doing your best. The best way to say 'thank you God', is by letting go of the past and living in the present moment, right here and now." It went on to say that whatever life takes away from you, let it go. When you surrender and let go of the past, you allow yourself to be fully alive in the moment. Letting go of the past means you can enjoy the life that is happening right now.

Maybe it'll be easier to do after we get through the "crud" that you mentioned.

I swear, how much can one person take of this crap..

So, now I have to try and convince my stbxw to make a change in health care plans, of which I am on a restraining order so need her consent, or my cost for health care for the family is going up 100% this year.

What do you think the odds of that happening?

I don't even want to talk to her at all, let alone try and convince her to try and save me some money..

IWITW,
With the delay

and that commute

angry and bitter would seem appropriate.

Don't "fight" them. Express them, vent them, scream them out somewhere safe.

Thanks G man.

Been venting a lot, here on the boards, to family, and hope to not wear out your welcome with all that venting...

Tough to do.

So, I have emailed the stbxw in a non confrontational way, but also not groveling, but to what equates to groveling in my mind, that in her infinite kindness she will agree with me and elect to change our medical plan so I don't have to pay 100% more this year.

We'll see how that goes....

Well, stbxw has replied that we can change our health insurance.

But, got into a email back and forth about taxes, which will be benefited by the investment properties she now disavows any interest in, and there is no surprise, that if there's money coming back, she wants that..

I probably slipped a bit from there, and said she knows she was involved from the start, and that I would not have agreed without her consent on them, to which her reply was that because I was a controlling person and she had little say in anything.

This to me is just rewriting. I asked her opinions, thoughts, feelings on stuff like this, and trusted that when she agreed it was the truth from her.

I just ended it there, and said I can see how you feel that way, and I could see how she would.

I know I tagged on something I shouldn't have, that she has her new life and boyfriend now, so she can do as she pleases. Why, I don't know. Probably because it hurts so much. Why does it have to be so tough that when you hurt, you have to lash back at times.

Stupid. I wonder if I will ever learn...

I had to go workout to reset myself. Feel a bit better now, and need to refocus again on myself, and not stbxw.

I am grateful for the things I have.
- A beautiful and loving daughter.
- A great company to work for, with phenomanal pay and benefits, great personel and many friends
- A
I am a decent person.
I deserve a loving relationship with a beautiful woman who loves me as much as well.
I deserve to lead the best life that I can, for me and the people who are want to be in my life

Carrying my goals forward again, to refocus on myself..

Goals -
D9
- Continue to find things to do with d9, while she is here with me.
- Continue solidifying my relationship with d9, discussion of feelings, acceptance for who she is, unconditional love. Already meeting this goal!!
- Call as close to every night that I can. I am meeting this goal, and glad that I can talk to her as much as possible, if only for 5 minutes a day at this point - Already in Progress.
- Over the next few months find more groups to meet up with that have kids in mind to do things, find new friends in my new neighborhood, and new friends that d9 can connect with as well.

Fitness -
Goal - Reduce my body fat content to lowest level I can, and get into as good a physical shape as I can, or actually have ever been.
- First, acknowledge that I have done a lot here in the past year, lost 50 lbs, and gotten back to 190lbs.
- Eat healthier, and learn more about nutrition to take my fitness to a higher level.
- Exercise - Continue 2 days a week BJJ training, and possibly add the 'Strength and Condition' 1 weekly workout IN PROGRESS
-- Weight loss is not my goal, but fat loss now, and conversion to lean muscle IN PROGRESS
- Regular and scheduled dentist and doctor visits for checkups. GOAL MET LAST YEAR!!

Personal-
- Continue IC on at least bi-weekly basis. Investigate if new IC would be good fit and crossover to further personal growth
- Continue Group C weekly to increase my intimate relationship building
-- Reduce anxiety, feelings of worthlessness and work on feeling that I DO deserve great relationships with people that respect and appreciate me.

Relationships
- I know what type of women I would like in my life. Tall, athletic, blond or auburn hair with similar yet different interests.
-- Work on feelings that I do deserve relationship with the type of woman that I want in my life, and I am worthy of a good relationship.
-- Don't settle for someone or something just because they are available, and I don't want to be alone.

Hey IWITW.

I'm sorry, and I know it hurts...we all do. Don't be concerned about the future; keep your attention on today, and stay in the present moment. Live one day at a time. I think the working out is gonna be great for you in a lot of ways. Your goal, and acknowledgements, are excellent!

Peace out.

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Stupid. I wonder if I will ever learn...

Learn what? To be human?

Thank you Ant and Gardener, I need the support today bigtime.

I feel I have horribly backslid, and am in a bad spot right now.

I had to sign some paperwork for d9 school, and while picking her up, she was in the car, and I decided to give to stbxw and attempt to talk to her.

Bad mistake.

She was on the phone when I came to the door, and I stupidly asked if she was talking with her boyfriend. That set the tone for the next 10 minutes right off the bat.

We went back and forth on it, and she knows that the only way I could know was having read her emails. I just said you don't know what I know and what I don't know about you, and that I just want to be afforded the courtesy of her telling me before introducing anyone to my d9 in her life. She said she would ask her L if she needed to do that.

Then I tried to discuss finances, and why was she attempting the things she is, and that she is going to ruin me financially, and that is not good for d9 or our situation. To which she said that she didn't have time or patience to discuss this now, and that I was trying to start an argument, and that if I didn't leave now, she would call the police....

I was not arguing, I was just trying to talk to her about our financial future, and that of d9. I was not confrontational in my tone, but just trying to talk to her.

I left after a couple more minutes as it was clear that she is set on what she deserves from me, and that she sacrificed everything for her kids and me in our relationship and that I never did, nor contributed fairly to her life or that of her kids..

I seem to be stuck:

Trying to make sense out of nonsense.
Trying to be sane in an insane situation.

Which way do you think will leave you in a stronger position after an interaction like this?

a. Beat yourself up for backsliding.

b. Forgive yourself for backsliding, learn from it, and resolve to not do it again.

Let it go man. You can't control her thoughts, feelings, or actions...so why bother? You can control all of these things for yourself though...so do it. Once you get to where it doesn't matter what she thinks, feels, or does...you'll be in a place where you look good on the inside to yourself! I know you hurt. That's part of this crap. No way around it...only through it! Get outside and go do some physical exertion.

Agreed Ant, and I am attempting B.

I am actually not trying to control anything she is doing, I am just trying to understand it, and why.

And it turns out, that is the piece I am struggling with, as it doesn't seem to make sense.

I guess that is the crux, that it doesn't make sense, so you truly can't understand it..

I know about the need to understand, we all do...but, you/we may never understand. I think the key is to get to where it doesn't matter! It 'is' what it is.

What's not to understand on the finances. She's being advised to go after every dime. I'm sure she feels she's doing it for her and D9.

You're looking out for you financial interests.

Look, when I got the divorce petition I called W and we had a 10 minute argument.

I felt awful about it because it made me feel weak.

I resolved to discuss nothing about the D with W. That's to be handled through the attorneys.

Make that pledge to yourself. Talk nothing about the D with your stbx. That's waht the lawyers are for.

IWITW.

Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope

I resolved to discuss nothing about the D with W. That's to be handled through the attorneys.

Make that pledge to yourself. Talk nothing about the D with your stbx. That's waht the lawyers are for.

^^^ THIS ^^^ Bingo.

Hey CTH and Gardener, True, and up to today, I had been following that as well, not to talk to stbxw at all about d.

Slipped today for sure, in trying to understand her position on going for every penny, and why.

I do feel weak, and did when talking to her, so understand your point.

The L's will do what they are going to do, and the law will decide, and I'll have to accept and live with whatever it is. That's about as much as I can do I suppose.

I guess it's still fear of the unknown that has a grip on me, unknown when this will be over, or even started for that matter, what the future has in store, etc.

I am trying to live day by day, and in the present, and at times that seems tough to keep in perspective.

Mine is going after everything she can, ruthlessly. Once her lawyer saw what was involved (assets) he started 'churning' big time! She's going after crap she swore she didn't want any part of. It helps me to keep the legal side of this mess separate from the other part of it, because as I've been told by people here...it 'is' separate. What's the 'worst' that could happen? We'd be in financial dire straights for a good while? Can you 'survive' that? I can and you can! It won't be fun...in fact, it'll be a b!tch. But, we can survive it. It's not gonna kill us!

I'm the anti-Antlers. There are no real assets. W ran up $15k in credit card debt the past three years. She tried to shop her way out of depression and I was worried about making things worse and didn't stand up and stop it.

We had a flood in 2007 and had to refinance everything and gut my retirement to fix the house. So we are mortgaged to the hilt and now the house's value has dropped $15k because of the real estate bubble.

So my attorney and I discussed bankruptcy briefly because even if W ends having to give me a chunk on the debt, the only real assets I'll get are from her retirement and it likely won't be enough to get me out of debt.

So he's taking a low-key approach to this case because he knows there's not much to grab.

I've been preparing myself for the worst-case scenario -- foreclosure, bankruptcy -- so anything better than that is a bonus.

W? I'm not sure. We don't talk about it. The girls give hints here and there. They want a puppy but she told them she doesn't have $100 to spare. Stuff like that.

I've really wondered how she got the $1,000 for the retainer to file in the first place. I'm guessing her mom. But that's not much help. W's little sister has drained about $25k from their mom through CC bills, DUIs and now going back to college at 35.

So if this gets ugly, her mom doesn't have much left to help. And as far as I can tell, there's no sugar daddy out there.

What your prospects for improving your situation?

W makes more than me and I'm still not looking at a promotion for a while. I reached out to friends and co-workers and found a weekend job in the summer where I'll make $2,500 to $3,500 depending on how much I work. Over the winter, I was the official scorekeeper at a high school where a friend of mine is the head boys basketball coach. I worked at 25 events and made more than $1,000 and it kept me from laying on the couch and watching TV.

Hey CTH and Ant, thanks for checking in.

Been a tough up and down weekend, I feel at my core that this past interaction with stbxw was a real problem, and could come back to really haunt me. I feel really bad about 5 minutes of something that I did, that was not a moral thing to do, and broke a boundary really of hers, and she knows it. There is legal jeopardy there as well, so I think I'll need to discuss it with the L tomorrow.

As far as assets, we really have little now, due to bad investments, of which stbxw is disclaiming any involvement with them, saying I was 'controlling' and would have done what I wanted anyways regardless of what she said.

To me, it's like talking to a crazy person at this point, take the current above position. I would have never invested our time, money, and future without her consent, which she gave, as we discussed it many times, and the implications of doing so. I recall clearly one day really leaning against it, sitting her down for a minute, which interrupted her workout, but she did anyways, and telling her I was really worried about this investment. Her response was, you worry to much about this stuff, and everything will work out, plans are in place, and everything works out in the end for a reason.

I left from that sit down with her, and called my partner and gave it the go ahead. How would you characterize that as me being 'controlling and manipulative' and 'never involving her' in any decision making, nor giving any thought or credit to her feelings on things, or our life plans, etc?

It doesn't matter now, but it's tough to listen to her now disavow any connection to any decision we ever had, or made..

Anyways, I am trying to let go of outcomes here, and just live day to day. Get by on what I have, and enjoy my d9, and friends and family that I have. That's about all I can do, I may at some point need to declare bankruptcy, or have 3-5 years of destroyed credit to recoup.

I am trying to not think of myself as 'over the hill' at 40 right now, and hope that someday I find someone who is my partner that is missing at the moment. We'll see.

I thought popped into my head today that saddened me, there are things that you don't often think about with regard to D, but once in a while pop up.

I was proud of the fact that my stbxw was able to know my grandparents before they passed away, as they meant a whole lot to my life, and where 'second parents' to me, and they were whom gave us the opportunity that we had financially to even make some investments.

I'll still have the memories, but anyone in my future won't get a chance to know those incredible people, other than my collection of thoughts, articles, memories. Kind of tears me up a bit to think about that..

iwitw

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

I am trying to not think of myself as 'over the hill' at 40 right now - Hey!!

Watch that!!

- and hope that someday I find someone who is my partner that is missing at the moment. We'll see.

Although she tragically and inexplicably checked out and WAS'd last year, I met my beloved pre-alien Janet at 40. And the absolute best and blessed 16 years of my life followed!

And, iwitw, in case you haven't already experienced this at oh, say, 25 or 30 or any age, take good care of yourself physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually and there is no "over the hill."

Proof: tell me honestly: aren't you really, not-so-deep-down the same person and feel like the same person you were at 18? 20?

So there.

Quote:

Proof: tell me honestly: aren't you really, not-so-deep-down the same person and feel like the same person you were at 18? 20?

Good lord, I hope NOT..

That's only partially facetious Gardener, I understand where you are coming from.

Yes, I am still an honest, caring, somewhat (Well at times...) intelligent person and in my mind I still look like when I was 25. Of course, then I look in the mirror and go, oh yeah, I am certainly NOT 25 anymore... LOL

I don't want to keep repeating the mistakes I keep making though, so that's a work in progress.

Update from me today, I spoke to L and gave him every detail of information I have, he assures me I am not in jeopardy, so I will trust his word.

I will be speaking to stbxw about anything substantive via email and copying my attorney on communications from now on.

To that, I need to update health insurance and need information on doc's etc, so I sent questions to stbxw. One thing that came up was how to handle stepsons, she didn't include there doctors info in my request, and I feel that it is unfair to them not to keep them on until we get D'd. They will likely have to come off when we D, and I do have mixed feelings about it, but will cover them until this is through.

One other thing. Pretrial court date has been scheduled for May 28th.

My 41st Birthday.

Is there some kind of cosmic joker out there that is just effing with me at this point?????

I hope that day comes and gives me some forward movement. That would be a good birthday gift to get, I suppose..

iwitw,

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Of course, then I look in the mirror and go, oh yeah, I am certainly NOT 25 anymore... LOL

Tell me about it. After 16 months post-bomb I tell people, "Last year I was 55. This year, I look 60-62!"

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

I don't want to keep repeating the mistakes I keep making though, so that's a work in progress.

Simple mantra for ya: "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten."

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Update from me today, I spoke to L and gave him every detail of information I have, he assures me I am not in jeopardy, so I will trust his word.
I will be speaking to stbxw about anything substantive via email and copying my attorney on communications from now on.

Well, that's good news from L. And although X and I are not contentious, I still am mulling over the idea of telling her I've decided that unless it's urgent or an emergency, she is to contact me by email, not phone. Just sick of hearing her.

IWITW,

Just checking in and catching up on your posts. How you doing my friend? I've got my hands full right now so apologize for not popping in sooner.

I really like the fact that you keep restating your goals/objectives- that's good and it's healthy. I know it's tough but you just have to forget about what STBXW is up to with the numb nuts new BF. For Pete's sake, I hope you are now done reading this woman's emails! All you do is just hurt yourself when you do that.

If it's any solace, my STBXW's L is dragging his feet through the process as well and it's p*ssing me off. Now that I'm done with all the hurt and BS from my STBXW I just want to finish up and start fresh.

Hang in there- you are in my thoughts.

Quote:

Simple mantra for ya: "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten."

Clearly understood at this point, no doubt, and I repeat something similiar to myself daily..

Quote:

she is to contact me by email, not phone. Just sick of hearing her.

I think as lbs this is actually better for us, NC gives us time to focus on ourselves, and email is as close to NC as we can get for most things, as it's not immediate, can be delayed to work through an emotion, etc.

Thanks again for checking in Gardener, hope all is well with ya!

[qoute]How you doing my friend? I've got my hands full right now so apologize for not popping in sooner.[/quote]

Sorry to hear BJ, and hope you can update us on your sitch, so we can chime in and lend some support, as you have lent yours to us.

Strangely, I am doing well today, very good emotionally, and not quite sure why, but just going with it. Feel pretty good. Better count it as a good day, and just go with it!

Quote:

For Pete's sake, I hope you are now done reading this woman's emails!

Was done as soon as I did it, never looked before or after that 5 minutes of my life that I can't get back, nor have had the urge to. I emailed her weeks ago to take over her email management, change her passwords, etc, and left it at that. I won't ever know if she has, but don't care too...

Quote:

Now that I'm done with all the hurt and BS from my STBXW I just want to finish up and start fresh.

Boy do I ever know how you feel. I just want some kind of finality, or at least a finish line in site, so I can just move on with MY life, and do the things I want to do with what I have left.

My thoughts are with you too man, ever sign up for those martial arts classes?

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

To me, it's like talking to a crazy person at this point.

Yep, I know EXACTLY what you mean!

Quote:

My thoughts are with you too man, ever sign up for those martial arts classes?

You know, I was leaning towards bjj because it was something I could do with S10 and S12, but frankly it's just too dangerous right now with the dynamics between STBXW and S10. As for something just for me, I'm liking km, but I need to find a bona fide instructor for it. But with money tight and all the balls I have in the air right now- it ain't happening anytime soon.

I'll put to you this way: I think I'm going to wind up get laid by some hot babe before I get serious about any ma/mma.

Definitely looking forward to getting back to playing a few of my Barry White favorites. "Can't get enough of your love Babe" is certainly one that comes to mind.

BigJohn,

Originally Posted By: BigJohn

Definitely looking forward to getting back to playing a few of my Barry White favorites. "Can't get enough of your love Babe" is certainly one that comes to mind.

Ah, Barry White. A guilty pleasure I don't often admit to!!

Hard to believe that it's been 13 days since my last post on my thread. I have been busy with 'life' and spending time doing things, and work, vs staying on the board for longer times.

Miss some of you all though, so stopping back in once in a while to check in on you, and see how things are going.

I am finding as time passes, I am doing better, and stbxw is less and less in my thoughts. Sleeping better, working on me, doing things I want to do, working on myself etc.

A long way to go, but making progress.

At times things come up, and they set you back. I spent the first weekend without d9 this past weekend due to scheduled trip that I had planned for me over the weekend. That will be 13 days of time that I have not seen d9 when I pick her up next weekend. This brings up.
- Feelings of pain, as my d9 is taken out of my daily life by the actions of others, and there is nothing you can do about it
- Feelings of guilt for not being there because of the above for d9
- Feeling that d9 is slipping out of my life..

I call her every night, and a couple of times already she has sighed before getting on the phone, as I know she doesn't always want to talk at times.

All these things above are ok and normal to think about, so just marking them down, as other people will have them or will be having them as well. I accept that, and will work through it.

I am doing well, and happy, and have been busy, so don't want the above journaling to get you all thinking I am down! I am looking forward to this coming spring and summer, and some warmer weather!

Quote:

I call her every night, and a couple of times already she has sighed before getting on the phone, as I know she doesn't always want to talk at times.

That is tough. I've been lucky so far in that I get to see them after school every day for an hour. So I've only had maybe one stretch last summer that I didn't see them. That was five days. Otherwise the longest has been three.

If W gets her way, I'd be down to about 10 days a month. I know it's less for others.

I just have to trust in the process that my history of being more of an everyday presence than W and having a career more conducive to family stuff will work in my favor.

So, I have a question for my fellow DB'ers.

Is it common for the WAW to race right into another relationship, and 'replace' the LBS in there life?

I just got my daughters newsletter which had an update on a fundraiser her class and stbxw helped with at school, and her new BF's company was also involved in helping with my daughters fundraiser. It's totally not a related company, so obvious that her new BF was there and involved.

I must say, that hurts, and I know there is nothing I can do about it, or who she brings into d9's life, but it seems awfully fast to jump to that level.

I am just trying to understand it, and maybe I can't but looking for other people's thoughts, or if you have noticed similar from your waw's...

iwitw,

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Is it common for the WAW to race right into another relationship, and 'replace' the LBS in there life?... I am just trying to understand it, and maybe I can't but looking for other people's thoughts, or if you have noticed similar from your waw's...

I have no experience, per se. Despite early suspicions, I have never seen any hard evidence that there was an OM before X left or in the sixteen months since.
I'm chiming in on your question because I remember/wrote down some statistics/study I read online somewhere the day I stumbled across this site. The last statistic is the only thing I've ever seen on this:

- 87% of couples who formally separate - or one Walks Away - never reconcile.
- 5 yrs later over 90% of them reported wishing they had reconciled and being unhappier overall
- Of the 13% that did reconcile, over 90% of them were glad they did and were happier overall 5 yrs later
- In the majority of WAHs there already was an OW
- In the majority of WAWs there was no OM.
- In the majority of WAWs, however there was an OM within 3 - 6 mos. of Walking Away.

fwiw. Like I've said, I've seen no evidence of OM in my sitch, but regarding that last statistic, exactly 4 months into what she called not a separation, just a "temporary respite" she asked for 1 month of zero contact at the end of which she asked for a D, ended MC, got our joint Cell Phone plan separated into two accounts and kind of fell off the face of the earth for a while.

Who knows? You can drive yourself crazy with this stuff.

Quote:

Who knows? You can drive yourself crazy with this stuff.

That's the truth G-man! But that is not my intent, at all. I realize that for me, it's just painful to see someone integrated into my d9's life or partially at least, so quickly, while I feel I am being less and less involved with d9's life now..

For me, now, I am ok that stbxw is with OM. I know that I will find someone at some point for myself, but would like to think I would not integrate them in d9's life so quickly, nor without informing my stbxw that I intended to do so.

I would not do that out of spite, or malice, I just feel that my d9's mom would deserve to know if someone in my life at a higher than friend level would be interacting with d9.

I mean we are not even divorced technically yet! Maybe that doesn't make a difference to d9 as we have been separated for 6 months now...

Guess I am being somewhat judgmental when I am trying not to be, so, again, nothing I can do about this, and I am dealing with the thoughts that are bringing on the sadness of this...

iwitw

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Quote:

Who knows? You can drive yourself crazy with this stuff.

That's the truth G-man! But that is not my intent, at all. I realize that for me, it's just painful to see someone integrated into my d9's life or partially at least, so quickly, while I feel I am being less and less involved with d9's life now..

Please don't think I was being dismissive or making light of it with my last two sentences you quoted. Actually, that's something I used to say to myself quite often (and still do at times). I certainly understand and appreciate the pain you're feeling re: d9.

Hey IWITW.

Just realize, often, that what she does has NOTHING to do with you. It is because of her! I know it hurts, but when these thoughts cross your mind...realize what I've told you is the truth.
If any other woman we see is with a man, or we know they have a man...what does it mean to us? NOTHING! What does it have to do with us? NOTHING!

Hey Gardener, no worries man, I know what you were saying, especially coming from you! You have and are a stand up guy, and I would never take anything as a negative that you say. I was more agreeing with you in my reply..

Hey ant, you are correct, and I know that. I was morer analyzing my side of things and why I felt the way I did. Nothing to do with her, but has to do with me!

Well, last night was an annoyance...

Note to self. Don't respond to requests from stbxw at the end of the day, do it earlier.

stbxw emailed a mundane question on dog pen that we used to have, that she gave away to someone, and wanted to know where all the parts where.

I was busy so waited to the end of the night before bed to respond.

Then wound up dreaming about getting back together with stbxw last night! Ugh!!

Makes sense, when the last thing you do puts her square in your mind before falling asleep.

Oh well, didn't cause too much sleep deprivation, just annoyed and not really sad though which was good..

It takes time, I'm sure, to get over the loss of people that we were intent on spending our lives with. There are no easy answers for us, and no easy way out. We gotta go 'through' this...awful as it is. Letting go of them, and letting go of the past...forgiving it...can be done. It takes time and effort, and is a choice that we must make and commit to.

What Antlers said! I can't add to it, but I'm here.

Hugs, Bunny

Hey Ant, Bunny, thanks for the checkin..

I think I am actually doing well at getting over stbxw. Was it what I wanted? No, but it is what it is..

So, how about some good news for a change?

Just got back from doctor's checkup, and he was absolutely stunned at my progress so far, was nice to get some accolades from him, so if ya'll don't mind I am going to toot my own horn a bit.

Since September of 08:
I have lost 52 LBS from 238 to 186.
Cholesterol went from a redline 245 to 188
Heart rate from the 90's to the 70's
Blood pressure from 136/92 to 118/76

I estimate body fat at between 17_-20 percent right now, and want to get down to 10-15 percent.

So, I feel great, probably in the best shape since my mid 20's, with a bit more work to do, but I feel I am progressing on my health well..

Lots of other stuff to still work on, but taking things as I can..

That's great man! You're so much healthier now than you were then, the numbers speak for themselves. I know that you feel physically better, and that has to make you feel mentally better too...to some degree. You've done a lot of hard work on your health, and it shows. Again, great job! Keep after it.

IWITW,

Good to see you back on the boards. Now you know how time really flys when you stop posting for awhile.

Congrats on the health achievements- that's fantastic. One of the biggest bummers with the sitch with S10 was that I stopped going to the gym- haven't gone in a few months now. I put some weight back on and now I'm a little P.O.'d at myself for not sneaking out late after S10 went to bed at night. I just couldn't do it though, mainly because I didn't want to leave him alone. Still working with the counselor and all the kids along with STBXW. We are making progress, so I'm hopeful to get back in the saddle again in time to look good for the summer.

iwitw,

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Since September of 08:
I have lost 52 LBS from 238 to 186.
Cholesterol went from a redline 245 to 188
Heart rate from the 90's to the 70's
Blood pressure from 136/92 to 118/76
I estimate body fat at between 17_-20 percent right now, and want to get down to 10-15 percent.

Holy Sh!t! Bravo and congratulations!

Hey all, I need assistance on communication. I am copying/pasting emails exactly for your thoughts.

Got some miscommunication with stbxw on Easter with d9, so I tried to reach out to her via email in a way that validated if she felt differently than I did about situation and try move forward. She had assumed she would have d9 for Easter from the brief discussion we had at L meeting where my attorney kicked her and her attorney out of his office with no agreements. I had left that meeting figuring that nothing was agreed to.

So, in attempt to reconcile that, I sent her the following email:

"I will try and have d9 back to the house in the 6-7pm range, if that works for you, let me know.
I am sorry if you felt that we had this worked out at the lawyers.
I felt that we had not come to any agreements that day, and had been working off the previous 'ad hoc' schedule of me having her on weekends and us informing each other of impending schedule issues.
Can we agree to continue on this for now, with each of us informing the other of scheduling things? I have updated you via email previously and don't have anything else on my schedule that is a conflict yet. "

Comes her reply today:
"yes, thats fine. I will be looking into returning to college during the break and as I only have weekends for classes it would be helpful if you could take her on the 3rd weekend of the month as you have her grandparents for child care if you have other plans on that weekend. I don't have child care on the weekends as her brothers are not here then.
Whenever you drop her off this evening will be fine. I want as much stability in her life as we can provide."

So, her reply has me completely angry this AM. I am putting the 48 hour rule in affect.

So, she wants to return to college now, and going to have child care issues. For context, I will be asking for 1 weekend a month without d9 as part of our agreement. She already is attempting to back me out of that, under pretense of 'stability for our d9' Horsepucky! If you wanted stability for d9, maybe you would have worked on your MR rather than just dumping it for some new guy!

I love my daughter more than anything in the world, but I don't feel that 1 weekend a month for myself when I am working 5+ days a week, and taking her in most of my free time is much to ask for in our agreement, and I am sorry if that affects your plans stbxw!

Maybe I just set myself up for this reply by me email attempt, and maybe I am just way over reacting, so that's why I am posting here for comments.

Hit me with the 2x4 if you think I am, or give me some advice on how, or even if, to reply...

Thanks all, hope you are having a good Easter.

Happy Easter IWITW.

I think YOU need one weekend a month for yourself, especially if you're working 5 days a week.

"I want as much stability in her life as we can provide too. I need one weekend a month for myself, especially since I'm working 5 days a week. You'll need to provide for your child care needs for our daughter on the one weekend a month that you have her if you have other plans."

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Hey Ant,

Your reply was my immediate thought as well, but why do I already feel guilty about replying like that?

I believe there is some passive aggressiveness in her reply, but am I just way off and too close to the situation?

It seems another loose-loose for me. if I say yes, she is still treating me as her provider and doormat, in my opinion, if I say no, she gets to build up more resentment and anger about me being 'inflexible' and not doing what is 'best for our daughter' etc.

Still pondering, but also need to just have fun today with d9 while I have her..

Your feeling guilty because you're putting her needs above your own. Don't. Assertiveness is a good thing...my reply, and your immediate thought, is standing up for your rights and what's good for you...without imposing on her rights.

You are close to the situation. That's why it's beneficial to come here and let other people help you...people who have no emotional investment in the situation.

Letting her treat you as her doormat is definately not good for you. As far as her building up resentment and anger towards you...you have no control over that...so don't bother trying. Do what you think is right, and let her think what she will.

I hope you have a Happy Easter.

Well, Ant, your right. I have not sent my reply yet, but I like what you wrote.

On another note, I got a bit of an unexpected boost from my d9, although at the time, it was a real tear jerker for me.

When I went to drop d9 off Easter evening, which is a Sunday when I normally drop her off Monday mornings, on our way back to stbxw house, d9 asked me "Do I get to spend all of next weekend with you?" And when I gave her a hug good bye, she asked "Now, you are going to call me every night this week Dad, right?"

Of course I replied yes to her, and explained that her mom wanted to see her for Easter as well, and why I dropping her off on Sunday night instead of Monday.

I left and man was I choked up driving off after that, but happy in a way as well, that she is expressing herself better with time.

Boy, another annoying and maddening day..

I am supposed to believe that things get better over time. What time that is who knows.

I did get to visit my d9 at school today, and drop her off at stbxw after..

So, in the side yard of 'our' home, she has allowed ss19 to build a fire pit, and now I see all of our old dining room furniture, 'our' yard tools strewn around the firepit, and charcoal everywhere from fires. Nice, $600 plus in indoor furniture left outside to rot...

Spent the next hour on phone with credit card company, as my credit is now destroyed and all my cards have been cut down to unusable.

It's tough to take that everything I worked for gets taken away from me, my daughter for is gone from my life for 2/3 of it, my credit finances that I worked so hard to protect is destroyed, loss of the investments, the home.

What a complete mess, and somehow I am supposed to wish my stbxw happiness in her new life?

So, I am headed to Australia for work with not so much as a credit card if something happens there..

Supposed to look at what I do have, and be grateful, maybe later today when I don't feel like just screaming and wondering how in the h*ll this state and stbxw get to do this to me no consequences other than to me..

So after the last maddening and annoying post, I have accepted that I'll have to rebuild from scratch both my life and my finances...

Really, what else can you do but accept it. Nothing to fight, other than with myself, so what's the point..

So, I picked up d9 this weekend, went out with a meetup group on Saturday for a nice hike along the Cape Cod Canal, and even though that had been one of 'our' things for a bit near the end of our marriage, I was not swamped in feelings of loss, or anything, and was pleasantly surprised by myself. Also had pic'a'nic lunch with d9 while there..

Sunday brought a day at the Sports complex in town, batting cages, go-carts, rock climbing, mini-golf, and topped off with round of golf driving with d9, and a friend and her daughter who happened to be there. d9's first swing of a golf club, and we had a blast!

Ended the day with Make Your Own pizza at home, which d9 likes to say is 'filled with love' as we add all the toppings, then we had a eat in the living room party and watched Loony Tunes before she quite crashed and was ready for bed.

I must say, it really was a great weekend with d9, and didn't cost too much money, 40 bucks for the two us for all day Sunday and I don't consider that too bad..

Dropping off d9 this AM, she asked if next week was vacation week and if she would be coming over all week to my house, and after I said yes, she did the 'fist pump' and exclaimed "YES!"

Trying not to gloat, but that makes me feel really good, and while I know I'll have to be the 'dad' at times, and we'll have ups and downs, I am so lucky to have such a great kid..

iwitw,What a GREAT weekend for you!

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

So after the last maddening and annoying post, I have accepted that I'll have to rebuild from scratch both my life and my finances...

I understand. Me, too. And we'll both do just fine.

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Really, what else can you do but accept it. Nothing to fight, other than with myself, so what's the point..

Excellent point. And very well put. Exactly.

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Dropping off d9 this AM, she asked if next week was vacation week and if she would be coming over all week to my house, and after I said yes, she did the 'fist pump' and exclaimed "YES!"

Great! Just great! I don't even know her, and I can just picture her!

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Trying not to gloat, but that makes me feel really good

Oh, gloat, Dad, gloat! By all means...
What an uplifting post!

Another week in the books....

I just want to point out to people, meetup.com has been a godsend for me, and I hope others get some benefit out of it as well!

Yesterday d9 and I hit a new meetup group for single parents, and went to a 'build your own wooden toy' workshop, and had one of the best meetups yet!

d9 built a toy bed for some of her play dog's and she and I building it together, then painting it was absolutely a great day, and the whole thing was about 10 bucks. She couldn't stop talking about how much fun it was! We then had ice cream with the group before heading home for food shopping and dinner.

On a more personal note, the lady that runs the group was so nice to me, I was kind of taken back. Within 10 minutes of really meeting up, she spent time talking with me, and then has me invited to an adults only hot tub party this coming weekend, and three of the groups other kids/parents meetups this weekend!

Did I mention she is attractive as well.

Don't worry, no expectations, but she has that outgoing friendly attitude that can make friends with anyone, and I am a bit of an introvert, so that always brings me out of my shell a bit, and that's a good thing.

Wednesday the group is going roller skating, and I am sure I'll be making a fool of myself, but who cares! d9 and I should have fun with the group and kids, and I am looking forward to it.

Just really in a good mood after yesterday, today d9 and I are meeting another meetup group for a hike and picnic lunch, cheap day of fun, and well worth it.

Sounds like you're doing some healing. Good for you. Keep on doing it...intentionally!

IWITW,

Just checking in to see how things are going. If it's any solace (and certainly no surprise), I'm dealing with the same issues with my STBXW and our kids as you are with your STBXW and D9. Suddenly the kids spending more time with me when it's supposed to be her time with them is just fine and dandy when the alternative for her is to go have fun somewhere. Frankly I don't mind it most of the time, but with me presently having 100% temporary custody of S10, it can be a bit much. I have to have SOME down time just to decompress- not to mention try to get things done. It's tough- I know how you feel.

One thing I'd suggest if your not doing it already is to keep track of those dates/times you have D9 when she is supposed to be with your STBXW. Those full and half days here and there can really add up over time, especially as it relates to the amount of child support your paying her.

Sounds like you are continuing to do well GALing and spending quality time with D9. As much as I hate to hear about what your D is doing to you financially (and what I too am going through), in the end our kids are the most important.

Take care of yourself. I'll try to check in when I can.

iwitw,

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

I just want to point out to people, meetup.com has been a godsend for me, and I hope others get some benefit out of it as well!

Agreed! Me? meetup hiking and meetup swing dance.

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

...and then has me invited to an adults only hot tub party this coming weekend

Whoa! Way to go!

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Did I mention she is attractive as well.

Don't worry, no expectations, but she has that outgoing friendly attitude that can make friends with anyone, and I am a bit of an introvert, so that always brings me out of my shell a bit, and that's a good thing.

Better and better. Good for you!

Well, couple more days in the books..

That lady from the meetup that I met is a great lady, but alas, she already has a boyfriend, however, she and I have been communicating regularly, and I consider her a friend now, and that is a positive. It's nice to have some new friends in the area, who are going to be true friends.. It's ok, as I had no expectations, but we just seemed to hit it off as friends instantly. Hope I can find a women out there like that who's single someday!

It's annoying and frustrating at times how the human mind works. I slept very little last night. I had to get the taxes done, so went over everything with the accountant, and out of that the following:

There is a huge benefit to our tax return from those investment properties that stbxw claims she has nothing to do with. I am talking thousands of dollars, and I am going to report that to my L, even though I doubt it will make any difference in division, and certainly not to stbxw who just wants the $$$.

I am going to need to change my w4 or I am going to wind up owing taxes next year. That means less of my take home pay, and it's going to be hundreds of dollars per paycheck..

I need to get stbxw to sign the doc, and I am anxious about how to go about that without getting into discussion about the differences..

stbxw unilaterally made the decision that her other ex would claim the 2 boys for financial aid purposes last year, so we could not claim them on our taxes. That's doubly annoying as I am paying still for the house they live in most of the time, and don't even live there myself anymore..

So, while dealing with 'mindfulness' of the above while awake, my subconscious seems to be struggling a bit, as I slept very little, kept waking up, dreaming about stbxw, ad nasuem. Grrr..

Well, today is another day to work it out, and taking d9 to cookie creating event with that meetup group, and looking forward to chatting with my new friend and make some other new friends..

Well, have to meet the ex tomorrow AM to sign the tax documents.

Ugh, I'll try not to stare or make any comments about the giant fake boobs...

End of the week journaling...

Met with stbxw for signing documents, and it was fast and efficient.. "Sign here, here, here, k, bye"

She had the new toys covered up, I pretended she felt guilty about dropping +8k on strap ons while crushing me financially, which seemed to please my subconscious warped mine, so whatever works, eh?

At any rate, went to party yesterday, and had a good time. Something did happen that had me thinking and thinking down on myself. Woman there that I was immediately attracted to, but over the course of the night, she was immediately attracted to and left with someone else..

That bugs me, and then it bugs me that it bugs me, capiche? I am OK now, just at times you wonder what it is that makes attraction between people, and why the heck I can't seem to make it work for me???

Oh well, enough with the pity party on my bruised ego, spending the night with d9 and another living room pizza party before I am off vacation and back to the grind tomorrow, and have to take d9 back to school tomorrow..

Oh, and tomorrow is d-day mark +1 year anniversary, I remember that day like it was yesterday..

Throughout the day, I have been working hard on mindfully watching and feeling my emotions through all this, so I am ok, and understand the down, up, sad, etc, and whole lotta others..

Another day to grow... Back to one of Dr. David Schnarch comments that I come back to frequently..

"You must be able to tolerate discomfort for growth"

Ain't that a doozy and so true....

Quote:

At any rate, went to party yesterday, and had a good time. Something did happen that had me thinking and thinking down on myself. Woman there that I was immediately attracted to, but over the course of the night, she was immediately attracted to and left with someone else..

This happened to me a couple of weeks ago and I remembered feeling like I was in high school again. I took it as a positive that at least I was getting in position to meet people again.

Quote:

Oh, and tomorrow is d-day mark +1 year anniversary, I remember that day like it was yesterday..

My anniversary is Tuesday and I'm skipping town. My one year out of the house mark is Mother's Day and I'm not sure what I'm doing that day. These opposite anniversaries suck. I wonder if they stay with us forever?

iwitw,

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

At any rate, went to party yesterday, and had a good time. Something did happen that had me thinking and thinking down on myself. Woman there that I was immediately attracted to, but over the course of the night, she was immediately attracted to and left with someone else..That bugs me, and then it bugs me that it bugs me, capiche? I am OK now, just at times you wonder what it is that makes attraction between people, and why the heck I can't seem to make it work for me???

But, iwitw, you can't make it work. It just works or it doesn't. Hey, you were out there Galing. Good for you.
And if it doesn't (hasn't) worked for you, I would suggets ending that sentence with the word "yet"
Keep going.

Man, there are some days I am ready to just give up....

I am typing this sitting in my now broken second car in the pouring rain, 50 miles from my home on the 1 year anniversary of the bomb...

So, I have two cars both of which are broken and I can't afford to fix due to this divorce, had to call stbxw to pickup d9 so she could get to school, first day back from vacation and have to call out because I am 100 miles from work.....

Yeh, divorce is some good times, good times...

iwitw,
You're getting it from all directions today.
Good Lord. And on the bomb anniversary, no less!
Hang in there. Endure. Overcome.
And remember:

"Suffering is when we try to change what we cannot."

(((((IW)))))

Just keep remembering this too shall pass. I know it doesn't feel like it, but you are stronger than you think.

Wow, I'm so sorry your week is off to such a rough start!
Things will get better, and you will get through this. Do you have any fun GAL plans to look forward to this week?

Hugs, Bunny

Thank you all for your well wishes and thoughts. They mean a lot to me..

So, I wonder at times if my life is just a gag reel for a cosmic joker somewhere, but I digress..

Today was an textbook exercise in mindfulness..

The adversary shows up to pickup d9 and I get the 'look of satisfaction' from her at my predicament as she drives up. Well, thanks for that.. She picks up the d9 and splits without a second glance back...

Couple hours later, I have car #2 at shop, and now have a rental for the week.

Just let the emotions flow, sad, anger, frustration, etc, and let them go by, and I am doing ok after, so this stuff works I guess.

If I am being made to pay penance for the sins of my relationships, I feel that I at least have to be making progress on the whomever holds that list..

Things could be worse, and I'll get through this, as I always do, just trying to make light of the situation, somehow...

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

At any rate, went to party yesterday, and had a good time. Something did happen that had me thinking and thinking down on myself. Woman there that I was immediately attracted to, but over the course of the night, she was immediately attracted to and left with someone else..

That bugs me, and then it bugs me that it bugs me, capiche? I am OK now, just at times you wonder what it is that makes attraction between people, and why the heck I can't seem to make it work for me???

Change your prespective about what this 'really' is...it's a scratch...that's all. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get back in the game...just like you did when you were younger and playing hard, with friends, at sports, or whatever!

Hey Ant, how are you doing?

Quote:

Change your prespective about what this 'really' is...it's a scratch.

True enough! And I think my post was a little harsher on myself than intended, I was fine with it, it just pointed out something along my path, internally for me to work on.

In analyzing this a bit internally, rather than stay in the present moment, and enjoy my time with this woman, with no expectation, I seemed to be thinking ahead to hoping that something would come out of it. Kind of setting yourself up a bit for a let down.

And in hoping something would come out of it, you wind up limiting you present moment interactions. A bit of the 'Nice Guy' syndrome if that makes sense.

Take care, my friend hope all is well with you!

Hmm, Ms. Adversary softening up a bit?

Just received this email from her.

"is everything ok with the car? d9 was worried about you yesterday. I hope your alright."

Softening up? Nah, I don't think so, but I don't believe I need her pitying me....

What to do, what to do..

Eh, I'll just call d9 later, don't think Ms. Adversary needs a reply from me...

iwitw

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Hmm, Ms. Adversary softening up a bit?

Just received this email from her.

"is everything ok with the car? d9 was worried about you yesterday. I hope your alright."

Softening up? Nah, I don't think so, but I don't believe I need her pitying me....

What to do, what to do..

Eh, I'll just call d9 later, don't think Ms. Adversary needs a reply from me...

I think you have this one summed up, figured out and planned out exactly right. Good instincts.

I don't know your sitch iwitw...but replying wise my rule is if she asks a question I'll answer it very briefly, if it's a statement then no reply needed.

For example, in this case I'd say "Car's being fixed, I'm fine, tell d9 I love her and not to worry- thanks"

Hey SR, first, thanks for the response.

I may have used your type of response, had I been still trying to bust this D, but that's not the case.

And I also know her response to me was more in a "Friend" manner, or how should would approach the same thing with one of her sons, not in a 'spously' way. Heh, 'spously' I think I like that word, reminds me of the Jetson's..

'Spously Sprockets'!

"Dilemma ("double proposition") is a problem offering at least two solutions or possibilities, of which none are practically acceptable."

I have one with the Ms. Adversary, and looking for advice. I have sent off to my L, so will probably wait for his reply, but want to run it by you all for thoughts..

Background: d9 goes to private school, where Ms. Adversary actually works as well, and this year she had free tuition because of the hours that she worked.

I received request to sign up for automated tuition this coming year from the school, so asked Ms. Adversary what was up with that.

Her Response:
"I have to drop my afternoon hours next year so there will be a payment, not sure how much yet. Most if it is covered by my job. I am planning on attending college next fall and need time for classes."

My tentative response that I am running by L:
"Ms. Adversary

There are two ways this can be handled.
1- As the custodial parent, it is your responsibility to sign up for these payments, to be made from the support that you already receive from me.
2- I will sign up for the payments, and will then seek to reduce my support amount to you by the payment amount for d9's tuition.

Let me know which way you want to proceed."

I don't know the legality behind this. I do not like that she is reducing her hours to go to college, and I know she expects me to increase support for this while she does, so who knows what the court will look at that as..

Anyone got ideas?

I am trying not to let this ruin my day, as it is a ways in the future, and I am trying to stay in the present...

I like this one...

"As the custodial parent, it is your responsibility to sign up for these payments, to be made from the support that you already receive from me."

Don't leave the decision up to her. You make the decision.

Originally Posted By: antlers

I like this one...

"As the custodial parent, it is your responsibility to sign up for these payments, to be made from the support that you already receive from me."

Me, too.

Originally Posted By: antlers

Don't leave the decision up to her. You make the decision.

Exactly.

Hey IWITW.

How are you doing?

IWITW,

I like response #1 as well. Just popped in to see how things are going- sorry to hear about the most recent crap you are dealing with. Have any of the Father's Rights organizations in your state been of help to you? I would think that on the East Coast they would damn near be militant the way men are hosed by the courts back there.

BTW, if it's any consolation, I had a positive female experience myself last weekend when I was shopping at a department store. Just browsing wearing an old t-shirt and jeans and this smokin hot sales associate comes up and is practically falling all over herself wanting to talk to me. I couldn't believe it- I thought she must be trying to sell me something- but after awhile I realized she was totally flirting with me. Just as I started getting interested I happened to glance down and saw her wedding ring. Needless to say I told her have a nice day and got the hell out of there. Kind of a bummer but at the same time a little flattering too.

Anyways, I think about you and your sitch often. Hang in there my friend. Things will get better.

Hey all,

Thanks for checking in with me, it's been a while, but I took a break from the boards as I was in Australia for 3 weeks for work. I need to catch up with everyone's sitch here and I hope you all are doing well.

Couple days especially this week where I wound up dreaming about STBXW again, and getting back together with her. That is extremely annoying, but I understand where it comes from..

I had hoped I would clear my head a bit, but that didn't really happen, more like I suspended 3 weeks of my life and now back at it.

At any rate, this Friday is pre-trial, so I need to get financials back together this week and meet with L. Nothing I can do but prepare, and I am trying to control the anxiety around that.

I also have a crazy week at work, just going to be a week of he** that I need to push through and get past.

I really pushed off that response from my last post. I realized I was scared of ticking off STBXW, and her just pushing harder during D, so I thought back to what I want and just this AM replied with answer #1. We'll see how that goes over, but I am not going to wonder what or how she will reply, I replied with that, because it is what is best for me, and what I believe is correct.

Hope to catch up with you all as I can, as I bet I'll need some support this week as I plow through it..

iwitw,

Thanks for stopping by my thread. I was over here a couple of hours ago, was glad you went with response #1 but had nothing really to say, so just "lurked in" and left.
Hope you are well.

Best wishes for you as you get through this week- it does sound like a crazy one! I hope things go well on Friday.

Hugs, Bunny

Enough already though, challenge someone else for a while..

So on the day I need to be at work early to meet with Senior management on employee reviews and balancing..

My car craps out again on the highway pouring out anti freeze..

Shop stop and back to rental, call from shop $1500 to repair and can't get finished until after the Holiday weekend...

Well, at least I get to look forward to Court tomorrow. Oh, wait a sec...

And, court date is on my 41st birthday..

Ok, Mr. Cosmic Joker, I have had enough for one year please. Point the gag reel elsewhere for a while, can you?

Hey buddy. Sorry that all this crap is happening to you all at the same time..."when it rains, it pours".

I got this from Smiley's thread...

"Reminded me of that line from 'Cast Away': Now I know what I have to do. I have to keep breathing. Because the sun will rise again. Who knows what the tide will bring?"

Sometimes it helps me to say to myself, "what's the worst thing that can happen to me? Is it gonna kill me?" It just kinda helps me keep things in perspective.

I'll have some good thoughts for ya' buddy.

Man, there has to be a cbs sitcom in the making here somewhere...

The irony of sitting in court waiting to get eviscerated by the courts and the fine woman whom I used to call my love has not been lost on me..

I am typing this from court waiting room while waiting for attorney, as I run into ex and quip "Hey, funny meeting you here!"

And then she wishes me Happy Birthday... LOL.. What can you do but laugh at this point..

I am thinking the worse that can happen today is I wind up in jail.. Maybe I should just shoot for that! Can't get any money from me if I am sitting in the can!

Good times, good times...

I'd like to find some humor in the judicial system but there is none..

Stbxw is going to 'win' if there is such a thing.. Child support alimony to the tune of half my net pay,
4 years to get my name off the house and she gets the house too, her inheritance is off the table...

I'm sorry, IWITW-

Is there anything that went in your favor at all?

IWITW.
Happy Birthday.
How are you, tonight?

I just don't know how I am doing.. Forgive me for venting a bit..

I have never wanted to quit work as much as I do right now, and it has nothing to do with the work.

The commute, 45-60 hour work weeks, no free time, dealing with the pressure and all the crud of a workplace. For What?

When the gov and the ex are done with me, I will be lucky to take home 25-30% of my pay when I do the numbers that the court has proposed.

The reality of that is I will need to move, quite possibly have to move back in with my parents to survive the next few years..

I am not sleeping well right now, with all this, and not sure what my next steps are..

I just don't understand it, if it stays the way the judge was saying it would, my ex walks away with half of all my cash assets, all of her inheritance, the house and me paying her more every year in support/alimony than most people make at a job in her area, while I get left with the liabilities and debt..

My L seems to think I am not getting a bad deal, and I am trying to come to understand how he believes that.

Also, court is September 24th, and I want to hear my stbxw proclaim on the stand that a used luxury suv and fake boobs were the best financial decisions she could make at the time of our separation.

I am just feeling distraught at this time, and not sure where to go....

iwitw,

I don't blame you for feeling distraught.

When things look bleak and you're not getting enough sleep - that's a bad combination. Check out melatonin, any number of herbal or otc sleep aids.

Some physical activity, if you're not already into a sport or exercising would certainly help given the work week you describe. Even just a brisk evening walk relaxes, tires and helps clear the mind.

I forget if you're in IC. If not, please do.

September 24 is almost four months. Have you considered getting a second L's opinion of the agreement that's in place, or does the judge or the law pretty much call the shots in Mass.?

iwitw, I know it's hard, but give yourself a break and a breather whenever you can. Like today. Today you're not commuting, working, not at the crud of the workplace, not living with your parents, it's not September 24, and you got a little free time.

Take a day off, mentally. "Go Dark" on your worries. What would you tell your best buddy or one of us on these boards to do? You need to treat yourself at least as good.

Today is for you.

Everything else? Just. Not. Today.

iwitw, that's all I got but I'm with you and know the feelings.

Give yourself a good day. You're a good man. You deseeve it.

Hi IWITW-

I can't really add to what Gardener said- he gives such great advice. I just want to echo his thought of getting a second opinion on the settlement, and please take care of yourself. I'm thinking about you.

Thanks both of you, I took the last couple days to 'break' but at times it just seems like I am suspending my life, and have to come back to it eventually.

Have not felt much like posting lately, been having challenges of self doubt, etc. Dropped d9 off at her school and stbxw was in the next room laughing with her work buddy about something.

I know I can't focus on stbxw, but things like that make you cringe, and think about how she has already got new man in her life, tons of free time, plans to go back to college, house that I pay for and will be for years to come. She could quite literally not do a thing for work, and have more money coming in weekly from me than most people in the area make at a full time job.

Meanwhile, how do I take myself from thinking about that to living well myself, when the focus of my life is d9 and taking care of stbxw now?

Finding ones self in this mess seems to be difficult, that's to say the least. I had been doing better, but still not where I would like to be, time to push on somehow..

To requote my own sig..

Quote:

"Suffering is when we try to change what we cannot."

Gardener/Bunny,

Thank you for your postings to me. They mean more than you can know..

I took G-mans advice, it is what I needed. I took a few days off, and for myself, and away from this site again.

There are times this site is just too much to follow, when are own chips are down.

I literally took myself down for a few days, and just survived day to day and moment to moment, work, a bit of play, sleep, and parked the L doc's for a few days.

I had realized I was also pressuring myself to find another woman in my life. The other night, I sat with myself, and reconciled that I just may be single for the rest of my life, and somehow found peace with that, and was OK.

I let it go, I recall that it felt good to let it go, I still don't quite know the exact 'how' of how that happened, but I remember the weight lifting, it's hard to describe, has anyone else felt like that?

At any rate, I bring this up, because into my life in the past few days comes a sexy, vivacious, interesting woman. I was interested in her, and just went way beyond myself and put myself out there in a way I have never done before, because I had always been afraid of rejection.

I had let go of any outcome, and low and behold, she has responded in such a way, that I am stunned.

Is that not a microcosm of life at times, when we well and truly let go of something, that something appears at exactly that moment?

I have no expectations, or any outcome, and just living moment to moment, as myself, and if she continues in my life that is good, and if not, that is good as well..

I have a lot of work in front of me, a lot of work on my D, well and truly moving past that to myself, and keeping my d9 at the forefront of my life is most important as well..

Take care all, I may not post as much as I used to, to get away from the pain of the past year, but just like above, I have let go of that too, so I may post more, who knows!

iwitw,
Glad you took some down time for yourself.
Pressuring yourself to find another woman - before your D's even final - smacks of neediness. They don't say "be careful you don't rebound," for nothing.
When you don't need an R is when you're ready for one again, imo.
Live your life and see who shows up.
Lo and behold, you took some down time, for your life and someone showed up.
Enjoy, but tread carefully.
Overall, like many of us, you sound like you are far from healed.

Peace,

Thanks for checking in G-man, hope all is well with you!

Quote:

Pressuring yourself to find another woman - before your D's even final - smacks of neediness. They don't say "be careful you don't rebound," for nothing.

True words, and when I really sat and analyzed what I was thinking, It was also tied to the fact my Ex has a new guy, and is incorporating him into her (And by extension d9's) life, and I was somehow tying that to my self worth. Feeling like she has moved on, and I can't, or what is wrong with me that she is already in new R, and I am not, etc, etc. Totally self defeating, and that was the pressure I was speaking about. Nice to take that off your shoulders when you identify it..

Quote:

Live your life and see who shows up.
Lo and behold, you took some down time, for your life and someone showed up.
Enjoy, but tread carefully.
Overall, like many of us, you sound like you are far from healed.

Yes, and all tied up together. And I still have no expectations of this new found interest, we have barely even gone out, but I am looking at how I used to be, when it comes to women in general, fearful, afraid to put myself out there for fear of rejection, etc, and THAT is part of my growth.

As well as being honest with myself and anyone that comes into my life from the get go from now on, if they don't like something about me that is there choice, and not a reflection of me or who I am.

I have a long ways to go, I feel, but I am starting in the right direction, I believe.

iwitw,
Sounds good. You sound good.
Heck, no one likes rejection. Women or men. When you meet someone, you're probably not the only one fearing rejection of some sort..

IWITW,

Just checking in to see how you are doing. I've taken some time off DB to decompress myself for the summer and get some things done on the house. Glad to see our friend Gardner dispensing some good advice to you. The way you are being unjustly treated never ceases to p*ss me off. It's truly unbelievable how men are treated by the D courts on the East Coast.

Continue to hang in there my friend.

IWITW,
Speaking of which:Where the heck and how the heck are you?
It's been seven weeks....

Hello all, and thanks for checking on me bj and gardener.

I stopped by to actually ask a question, and I will update a bit, and then try and catch up on your sitches.

Question: My sister and brother in law are on the verge of separation and D. I have been talking with both of them, trying to get them some help, based on what I have learned here and elsewhere, but they just seem to be stuck in a downward spiral and neither wants to make a move forward vs splitting up. They were teenage sweathearts, and married for over 20 years, with a 13 year old daughter now. I have sent my sister info from here, and asked her to stop by, but she has not, which is too bad. I was hoping that I may be able to fine a 'reconciliation' story from someone here that I could send her in email, so that she knows that it CAN be worked out, vs just saying it's over. Any thoughts on a possible good one to send her? There is no infidelity, but my brother in law does have some alcohol problems, that are just being exacerbated by the situation they are in. It's breaking my heart, neither one of them wants to truly D, if you aske them separately, but they just won't move in the right direction vs arguing, focusing on the negative, etc.

Any advice, or stories that I could send them?

On to my updates:

Boy did Anger show up big time in the past month or so. My STBXW is taking me to court for emergency orders to say that I am disposing of marital assets, then at pre-trial followup her attorney filed a filing with the court that is just full of lies, and is now forcing me to answer 'interrogetories' of ridiculous nature, such as "List out all personal property you have that is valued at over $100 dollars" My attorney is objecting, but it is just ridiculous I am on the defense big time, and costing us a fortune in lawyer fees.

At the same time, my STBXW is emailing me asking for money for my D9 to give her art classes and kayak lessons, stating she has absolutely no money. Sadly, I have stopped replying to these types of emails, as she has burned any last bridges with me financially with this crap. I am fighting off bankruptcy and figuring out how to make rent payments with where the court has me, and have my own problems making sure my D9 is taken care of, so she is on her own. I will pay her what the court decides, and it is up to her now to do what she sees fit with her money while she has d9. I literally just took two days off of work to write a 10 page Microsoft Word document response to her Legal questions. And I have 2 other requests and document discovery to still go through!!!! Ugh!!!

And in the midst of all this, I have been working on myself, and seeing life in new ways, truly, and spending time with a women whom I didn't expect in my life. I spend my time in the present, and have stopped as much as possible living in the past, or projecting into the future, and that has brought me some immense happiness at the same time as financial ruin and an unknown future. The irony or dichotomy, or whatever you want to call it, has not been lost on me.

It didn't even dawn on me how happy I have been, until a friend of mine posted a picture of me on a facebook page that so startled me, and was so shocking, I couldn't believe it. You could tell in the photo that I was actually, 100 percent, truly happy with this huge smile and just enjoying myself, and the photo brought back the feeling of that moment and I was amazed.

It is possible to be happy, all of us have it in us, regardless of where we find ourselves in a given moment in time.

I will check in with your sitches, and hope to catch back up with some of you, and wish blessings to you all!!!

IWITW

iwitw,

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

...I was hoping that I may be able to fine a 'reconciliation' story from someone here that I could send her in email, so that she knows that it CAN be worked out, vs just saying it's over. Any thoughts on a possible good one to send her?...Any advice, or stories that I could send them?

Offhand, all I can think of is Mac-ct and Dia, though there are more. I recently read of some successes on another forum but can't seem to find it right now. Don't see it in "Piecing," though I may have not looked back far enough.

Mods? Any thoughts as to where we can find good evidence of Michelle's 85% success rate claim?

Sorry to hear about all the legal B.S. and hoops you're being forced to jump through.

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Sadly, I have stopped replying to these types of emails...

Sadly? Well in some ways, yes, I can see that. But at the same time, good for you.

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

And in the midst of all this, I have been working on myself, and seeing life in new ways, truly, and spending time with a women whom I didn't expect in my life. I spend my time in the present, and have stopped as much as possible living in the past, or projecting into the future, and that has brought me some immense happiness...It is possible to be happy, all of us have it in us, regardless of where we find ourselves in a given moment in time.

Now that is great to hear. And cause for celebration. Bravo, iwitw.
More and more, I am (finally) finding that daily to be true, too.

"If you want to be happy, be!
Leo Tolstoy

Good to hear from you.

Peace,

So, I have an upcoming decision to make, and I know it's going to be uncomfortable no matter what choice I make.

The good:
D9 has been taking Kung-fu classes that stbxw setup for some time, and that is good for her!

The Bad:
stbxw shortly after signing up d9 became involved with owner/d9's teacher and has been going out with him for several months.

The uncomfortable:
d9's yellow sash test is this weekend, and stbxw has invited me to watch her take the test, as d9 would like us to be there.

The choice:
To go or not to go.

I am really uncomfortable in either choice above, I want to go to support my d9, but know I will have tons of mixed emotions while doing so, and I do not even want to get introduced to my stbxw's new beau.

Hard to believe it's been over a year, and just the thought of being in the same room as him brings up a ton of emotions, even though I am accepting that it does, I am not sure how well I will handle it.

Some thoughts to ponder, and wondering how others have dealt with these moments...

iwitw,

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

The uncomfortable:
d9's yellow sash test is this weekend, and stbxw has invited me to watch her take the test, as d9 would like us to be there.

My vote? Go. You can endure uncomfortable for your daughter's sake.

You can choose not to be introduced to the teacher.

Funny, I have this stereotype in my head of martial arts teachers being honorable people. Does D know STBXW & teacher are involved?

Maybe a boundary is called for here: like a different teacher or school. This is inappropriate and confusing if not downright harmful to your DD.

imo

Peace,

Hey G-man, thanks for the reply.

I'll be going, and as far as the boundary. D9 does not know about there relationship, and as far as I know she just see's him at Kung Fu, and he is her Sifu.

I could announce that I don't like this arrangement, but there is little I can do about it, other than monitor D9 and answer any questions that may come up. I have asked stbxw to inform me before she involved d9 in the life of any of her new men, and it is up to her to do so or not.

Now as far as this weekend, it's 1 hour out of my life, I can focus on d9.

It will bring my work on mindfullness to the forefront.
- To stay in the moment
- Not assume things I don't know
- Focus on d9
- not build stories about my past or future that have nothing to do with the present moment that I will be at the place to watch d9 test for her yellow sash.

I know this will be tough on me, and accept that, so will work on above during it and after..

Hey buddy, yeah, it'll be tough.

Be Impeccable With Your Words
Don't Take Anything Personally
Don't Make Assumptions
Always Do Your Best

Be Impeccable With Your Word: Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

Don't Take Anything Personally: Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.

Don't Make Assumptions: Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness, and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

Always Do Your Best: Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret.

This is from the book 'The Four Agreements'

iwitw,

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

...Now as far as this weekend, it's 1 hour out of my life, I can focus on d9.

It will bring my work on mindfullness to the forefront.
- To stay in the moment
- Not assume things I don't know
- Focus on d9
- not build stories about my past or future that have nothing to do with the present moment that I will be at the place to watch d9 test for her yellow sash.

There ya go: one happy little girl, one strong, centered Dad.
Have a great time.

Peace,

Quote:

Hello all, and thanks for checking on me
Any advice, or stories that I could send them?

What about Coach and his wife? And don't forget about Sandi2's story.

Quote:

My STBXW is taking me to court for emergency orders to say that I am disposing of marital assets, then at pre-trial followup her attorney filed a filing with the court that is just full of lies, and is now forcing me to answer 'interrogetories' of ridiculous nature...I literally just took two days off of work to write a 10 page Microsoft Word document response to her Legal questions. And I have 2 other requests and document discovery to still go through!!!! Ugh!!!

This is beyond ridiculous- I obviously don't know all of the complexities of your case, but it sure sounds more like your STBXW is trying to break you- financially, mentally and emotionally. I have not had the need to do so myself, but there are resources out there- books, on the internet, support groups- that can help you counter a lot of this BS from your STBXW and her scumbag L. I could be mistaken, but RobX is someone who comes to mind who may have more insight into some guerrilla tactics that you could use to defend yourself from this stuff.

Quote:

And in the midst of all this, I have been working on myself, and seeing life in new ways, truly, and spending time with a women whom I didn't expect in my life... The irony or dichotomy, or whatever you want to call it, has not been lost on me...It didn't even dawn on me how happy I have been, until a friend of mine posted a picture of me on a facebook page that so startled me, and was so shocking, I couldn't believe it. You could tell in the photo that I was actually, 100 percent, truly happy with this huge smile and just enjoying myself, and the photo brought back the feeling of that moment and I was amazed.

Very cool! I'm going through and thinking the same kind of things. (Except the new woman- but I'm going to start working on that one soon!) It is an amazing sense of self realization and awareness- going through one hell of a gauntlet and surviving while in the process becoming 10 times the man that you were before.

You are going to be just fine my friend, I have no doubts about that- regardless of what your STBXW does. Take care!

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

It didn't even dawn on me how happy I have been, until a friend of mine posted a picture of me on a facebook page that so startled me, and was so shocking, I couldn't believe it. You could tell in the photo that I was actually, 100 percent, truly happy with this huge smile and just enjoying myself, and the photo brought back the feeling of that moment and I was amazed.

Glad to hear it, Iwantit. It's nice that through the tornado of everything, you can find happiness.

Add Lost Rabbit and Girl from Oz to the list of Mac-ct and Dia.

and freckle.

iwitw,
From one awol poster to another, How are you doing?

Peace,

Thanks all for checking in again on me. I am away from this site more than I am on it these days.. Life is busy, and taking me along for the ride...

Just to update on my sitch, and this may be long.....

On the trip to my d9's Kung Fu:
I went, and focused on d9, and watching her work on her Kung Fu was great, as I can see it helping her self esteem, build confidence, and new friends and everything that goes with it, and part of why I do Jui Jitsu now myself, and I am very proud of her, as she is now a yellow sash!

On a personal note, I was surprised at how little emotion over the OM that I felt, or even towards my STBXW. I can see why my STBXW is attracted to him, as he carries the confidence and charisma that comes with being a black belt in a martial art, although he was not as physically good looking as I thought he would be.

D Proceedings:
Our D trial date is coming up, and my L is trying to get an agreement together VS having to have a full blown trial, and I met with L for a couple hours to try and draft up one that I could abide by. Not an easy task. I essentially argued with my own L for 2 hours, and then mostly gave in to what he is discussing and he has drafted an agreement and sent to STBXW and her L, and we are waiting for there response. It is not something I am truly happy with, but something that I could at least survive with if they agree in kind.

My sticking points are paying her alimony on top of the crazy amount of CS that I will be paying. Alimony laws in Mass are just absurd, and after discussing with L, why we are trying to get agreement.

In MA, the judge can only decide if alimony is needed, not duration, etc. There is case law to back up that because of disparity of income in our case that Alimony will be awarded, and in pre-trial he said it would likely be so. He stated in pre-trial that it should be 4 years. Now, if STBXW and I agree on that, it can be done that way, but if I understand my L correctly, if we go to court, and it's decided it's warranted, he can make no decision on duration, only if it's needed or not, and I may wind up paying for a much longer time, if not forever. I am not really up for trying my luck on that one...

There's more to the agreement, for sure, and I was so angry after arguing with my attorney for 2 hours it took me the rest of the afternoon to calm down. Accepting that I was so angry was part of the process, and just working through it.

On me:
Still doing well, in spite of roller coaster the past few weeks, and I am currently looking to move to a new apartment in the next month, as my lease is up. Hard to believe it's been a year already..

Overall, I look at who and where I am now, and I am content I am on the right path for me, and happy about where I am personally, and where I am growing to.

I look back at who I was for so long, and it really does seem like I was a different person, unhealthy in many ways for many reasons. However, I won't host the regret that comes with those realizations, just acceptance of it as truth, and part of the foundation of who I am now, and who I want to be in the future.

Peace, all, hope to check in with most some of you soon, but off to family b-day party with d9!

IWITW,
sorry that you're having to deal with all the stuff that's happened. We were headed for a nasty trial, and we recently had a 6 hour mediation that resulted in the negation of a trial. I hope that you are successful in avoiding a trial. A trial takes ALL of the decision making ability away from BOTH of you.
If you can continue to detatch from her, and what she's done, you will continue to do better. Congratulations on your progress so far.
Cheating, in my opion, is the worst thing that one person can do to another...short of killing them. These people are able to convinve themselves that what they did, and are doing, is OK...regardless of how wrong it actually is! I'm sorry that it happened to you.

ps - I can also relate, completely, to your last paragraph above. Good work!

iwitw,

Originally Posted By: iwantittowork

Still doing well, in spite of roller coaster the past few weeks, and I am currently looking to move to a new apartment in the next month, as my lease is up. Hard to believe it's been a year already..Overall, I look at who and where I am now, and I am content I am on the right path for me, and happy about where I am personally, and where I am growing to.

How good to hear!
Peace,

So happy to hear you are on a new life path and working on yourself. Good for you! Day by day, it does get better and you will have this rich and amazing life you can't imagine every having. This is time to spend with YOU to figure YOU out...enjoy!!

Sorry all for not stopping by your threads first, but just wanted to post to my thread today..

I am officially divorced. (Pending 90 day waiting period)

Its mixed feelings that this has come to where it has, I am happy that I have some finality and know where I will stand financially, so I can make choices and move forward. It is also with sadness that a family had to be destroyed, and that I no longer want to even stand in the same room with the women I had thought I would spend the rest of my life with.

However, it is what it is, and I am in a better place, and that it's too bad it could not have been with XW, but that doesn't come from regret, just acknowledgement and acceptance of where things are.

Thank you all for following along, and I'll be around, but for today, I am just unwinding, as along with my D, I will be moving on October 10th, so there are quite a few new beginnings on the horizon.

What a ride this life can be, eh? All of you here have carried me at times through some tough things, and I am ever appreciative for your support, and hope that you are getting the same, as you all deserve the best this life has to offer!

Peace, IWITW.

(I had wanted my screen name to reflect that I wanted my marriage to work, but now that has come to pass, it still reflects that I want things to work, for d9 and myself, and we will thrive, no matter what comes our way!)

I'm sorry that it turned out that way brother.

"I am happy that I have some finality and know where I will stand financially, so I can make choices and move forward. It is also with sadness that a family had to be destroyed, and that I no longer want to even stand in the same room with the women I had thought I would spend the rest of my life with." - IWITW

I can certainly empathize with this.

"I want things to work, for d9 and myself, and we will thrive, no matter what comes our way!" - IWITW

Then make it happen brother. You do have the power to do that. Good luck and best wishes.