Well Dang it...my post locked before anyone could answer my question. Let me askit again so that I can get your feedback:
My question is, should I start acting like I am D? What I mean by that is when it comes to OEO's weekly visits, I am still allowing him to come into my home for them. I kind of feel like I am making things pretty easy and he is invading my space. He is not being forced to face the reality of his decision. I truly want my S to have a R with his father, yet how far do I go for OEO? If we were D today he would NOT be able to set foot in my home, yet that is what I am allowing him to do. Should I continue this or should I cut it off along with everything else so he has to face the reality of his choices?
I appreciate all of your insight and am looking forward to your all of your wisdom. I am just trying to heal at this point......
I was in the same boat last year, and people here told me it was unhealthy. He has to face the reality of a single father, does he not have an appt? for a while stbx lived too far and not a place to bring both kids, but if I hadnt' paid him off for his share of his house and he gotten his own place I would've set a cut off date and told him "after Sept,32 you cannot stay here anymore, you can pick up kids at 1pm and drop them off at 6"
There is no reason to make his life easier by forgoing your privacy, he should man up to his desicions.
If we were D today he would NOT be able to set foot in my home, yet that is what I am allowing him to do
May I ask why if would be so different after the divorce? I agree (don't forget I am living it) it is so hard to have them be able to come and go in our house, but I know its best for the girls right now. There are rules that I have when he is there. Some are silly, like I don't want him lying on 'my' bed, but I explain it to him that he has somewhere to go, somewhere private, (his dads) but I don't have that. I have to make the most of it.
Should I continue this or should I cut it off along with everything else so he has to face the reality of his choices?
Are you really solely responsible for him seeing his reality? To make him face his reality? I would think all the things you did (boundaries you set) weren't to 'punish' him, but to help you heal properly.
Its hard for me at times, but I told xH that he is welcome at the house anytime the girls are there and awake (and he lets me know first). He still throws his dirty clothes in the wash there, still has a lot of stuff there. Right now, that stuff doesn't bother me, I am just enjoying and learning to get used to HIM being gone. I figure when that stuff *does* bother me, I'll tackle it then. One thing at a time.
Hey cat & lwb, thanks for your input. I do appreciate both sides of this delimia.
So, lwb, you say that you still allow you exH to come into your house. Here is the difference....he is NOT with the OW that he left you for. If O Enlightend One was not with maggot (my fond name for OW) then things would be different. He feels completely justified in his actions, has NO remorce for what he has done....leaving me while I could die, causing my son to become suicidal....nothing. After all, it is about HIS happiness. And when I put up boundaries to try and heal, when I say I need time to myself without you around....he reacts by canceling my car insurance/ home owner insurance.
I got a phone call tonight that said that as of tomorrow I will no longer have coverage on my car unless I re-establish coverage on my own. Oh, and by the way, since the home loan is only in his name I am now considerd a renter and need to take out renters insurance to cover mine and Owen's stuff. So.....I am now moving all of HIS things to the garage so these shinangans can stop. Did I mention that he is trying to break my NC by still emailing me??? Guess I am in an angry place right now. So, I think that maybe cutting him COMPLETELY out of my life might just be the right move. I have made things VERY easy for him. Tis is not about punishing him or trying to hurt him. It is about me letting him see what his actions really mean. You want to be divorced.....ok, then here it is. I WILL NOT BE YOUR FRIEND OR HELP YOU OUT. YOU LEFT ME SO LIVE WITH IT!!!! Again, feeling a bit angry at the moment.
If I need a 2x4, I will be open to hearing it. Please, feel free to give your point of view. And lwb,. please dont think that I dont appreciate your perspective, I do. I just think we are at different places in our journey. Like I said, I am not cutting his visitation off, I am just trying to establish boundaries to heal.
I know that I couldn't be around my X at all. It was a huge trigger for me, and I wasn't strong enough. The complete NC is for ME; has nothing to do with him. And he respects it.
You have to watch about not letting him into the house, though, if it is "his." Legally, he may have the right to access. Check with your L. It might be something you have to negotiate (and give something up for, possibly, in your agreement).
I don't blame you for being angry; it can be a healthy, self-protective emotion if you channel it correctly and release it in a healthy way. Do you get Divorcecare emails? They post about anger for more than a week, starting about Day 70 of their daily emails...
have you guys decided who's going to own the house and other financial aspects? during my sep. agreement all that was iron out well before he was eligible to file for D, can you keep the house if you refinance? are you selling it?
why would things be different if he were with someone else? he still broke the family apart brought pain to you and your son, dont' expect for ANYthing good to come from him (repentance/sorrow/apology) chances are if he is acting like this it will never come and you will be left with lots of anger and chaining yourself to him through that anger.
I see through your sig that all has happened pretty recently (d/ow) and you are hurting lots, but you must cut yourself completly from this looser by taking care of yourself/son financially and only deal with him when you absolutely have to without expecting anything else from him.
Wow Cat....you can really ROAR!
Neither one of us will own the house after the D. I am putting it back on the market in the spring. We will be going to mediation to work out our agreement and then the paperwork will be filed with my L. After the house sells, my L will then submit it to the judge for his signature to complete it. I know longer look for ANYTHING from him. I see us as living completely seperate lives now. Going pitch black is for MY sanity, and has nothing to do with him. Although it still angers me that he is not respecting the rules, but why should I expect any kind of respect from him at this point?
he's got some nerve telling you are now a tenant! the house also belongs to you and I dont' think what he did was legal, have you run that through your L?
Be VERY VERY specific when you get the legal agreement, leave NOTHING unsaid (who'll get who, put down every single holiday/days off your son has and who will have him then) Some here were luck and were able to push college on the papers (stbx refused to agree, legally he doesnt' have to). Another dber here made it so the WAS go to either parenting classes or IC with kids. Make sure you talk to your L before you go to the agreement meetings. Good luck hon)))))
[quote=brokenhearted]Oh, and by the way, since the home loan is only in his name I am now considerd a renter and need to take out renters insurance to cover mine and Owen's stuff./quote]
This is total bull... Is the home insurance paid through the mortgage? If so, all belongings are still covered through that. If he has another place he has to get other insurance on that.
Although my X was the one cheating I moved out and rented my own place. Her name isn't on the home loan but I am still paying things until the house sells. So, all remains the same there and I had to pickup renters insurance for my place.
Brokenhearted,
I'm a long-time lurker that has been following your sitch for a while...wow..my heart has been hurting for you SO much..what a completely selfish man that is...I'm infuriated FOR you..my advice would be to talk to your L and file a motion immediately for sole use of the marital property. You are there on your own now so it should be relatively easy to achieve. If you went before a judge and explained what was going on, even with you sick...they would grant you sole use immediately...Once you do that, you in NO WAY have to allow him in that front door. With that order, you can change (or re-key..much cheaper!) the locks...I went to court for my motion in the morning & came right home to the locksmith there! You have every right to set your boundaries after what you have been put through.
Yes, you should not bash him in front of kids, etc..but no way in h*ll would I be letting his sorry behind in the house..If he continues to disrespect your boundaries & email you, block his email. If he whines about it..a simple "be careful what you wish for" should suffice.
You are without a doubt one of the strongest people I have seen on here in the 2 yrs or so I've been on the site...Clearly you will come out of this OK...be angry...but do not let that anger consume you...he is NOT worth it..and you are worth SO much...
I apologize for hijacking...wanted to offer my support about the motion & locks..after all you've dealt with, it really pissed me off to see him threatening you! I'd also call the insurance company on the homeowners & do some research to find out what is/is not covered so he can't BS you further...Stay strong, you are in my thoughts & prayers
Kerry
You have a lot of anger and I think you need the space and time for yourself to heal. Can you legally change the locks on the house? (Heck, I changed the locks!).
Perhaps you can get some of those slide locks so he can't walk in (I did that too!).
Tell him you just feel too much anger and hatred towards him,so you don't want to see or hear from him. He can drive up, honk, and you will send your son out, and he can drive up and let him out of the car. If he has any problems with this tell him to contact you through the lawyers.
If he disrespects you, and keeps bothering you be rude to him. Tell him stuff so he won't want to be around you. If someone irritated me that much I'd probably react with ugliness so they wouldn't want to talk or interact with me.
I wouldn't recommend this to everyone, but you seem like a volcano ready to explode and I think you need him out of your life as much as possible.
So, lwb, you say that you still allow you exH to come into your house.
Yes, he pretty much has full access. But he is only there when I am working.
he is NOT with the OW that he left you for.
Oh my dear, you are so darn right!! We covered this for awhile on my thread, how it would be SO much harder to be dealing with original OW. She was married with 2 kids as well. Oh man, I can't imagine!
And your H acts horribly when you try to enforce a boundary he doesn't like. My xH stomps his foot a bit, but then deals.
I canNOT believe he cancelled and messed with the insurance!!!! Unbelievable!
My friend, I am here for you no matter what. I too, agree that we have different situations, yours is definately a harder road. My heart goes out to you, and I pray you can heal. And you do whatever YOU need to do to heal. He gave no thought to you, now its your turn to think of yourself.
Ok, I am so spitting mad right now. Why do they act so angry when we go NC? They are the ones that threw US away! So, I log into our bank account to see if the house payment has been made yet (Nov's). What I see instead is a transaction for a hotel room at Days Inn for $140.00 that was charged today. Now, we all know that I have stated that I want him completely out of my life...I do. I also am not trying to come between him and my son. They need to develope whatever relationship that can and I have no intention of standing in his way. I do, however, think his visitation needs to occur outside of my home. What makes me mad is that:
1) he has spent so much for a hotel room. If he keeps this up on a weekly basis then he really will not be able to continue to make the house payment and it will go into forcloser.
2) He talked with my brother today about how unfair I am being (whine whine whine) and yet never mentioned his intention of taking my son for an overnight visit tonight.
I can already guess what he was planning - me coming home to an empty house and becoming worried about where they were. Instead, O Enlightend One got to walk in to the house with a bag already packed for my son. Im sorry, but that is just F'ing cruel. All I have asked of him is some space to heal. This request after he screwed around and left me at the sickest point in my life. But of course I am seen as a controlling B because I asked for NC. Sheesh...can some one get a baseball bat for me? He is just sick, plain sick. Guess someone has issues with boundaries!
What a freaking baby!
So, he got the hotel room because you won't let him visit at the house? So he can take S8 for the night? Did I get that right? Or did he plan an overnight trip out of town for S8?
Talk about your 'pushing back'. He is such a fool. I don't know where you are with the financial stuff, but is there a way to separate everything so he doesn't sink you along with him? Do you know for sure you can't stay in the house? Is there a way to move out (find something for you and son) get your name off the house and leave it to H to deal with?
lwb, first of all, I love you. You have always been such a wonderful, compassionate soul. As far as our finances go...well, lets just say they are grim, very grim. He wiped us out and I have no idea where all of the money has gone. Personally, I want to stay in the house as long as I can. Almost everything is seperated and I figure we will come to an agreement in mediation in a couple of weeks.
Here is the thing, if OEO would just stop acting like an idiot he would see that we have prob 75,000.00 in equity in our home. But instead he is screwing around and doesnt care about any of this icky financial stuff. Our house payment takes 1/2 of his month paycheck at this time (remember, he was demoted of few months back). So no, I can not afford the house any longer. I just was hoping to be able to get some money from the sale to pay of some of the debt and have a little cash in my pocket. Guess I can no longer count on that.
So, I started out posting in a pissy mood because he got a hotel room for the night. I guess maybe I jumped the gun on assumptions.....I get back home and OEO's car is still parked out front. I give him the signal and he leaves. Son is upstairs asleep. Hmm....what is the hotel charge for then? WTF???? I guess I need to contact my bro and have him find out what the charge is all about. Lesson here - try not to jump to any assumptions. Still, he has been acting so crazy these last 6 months that all I can do is assume the worst in order to protect myself. I hate that I have to think that way, it wears me out sometimes.
He probably used the hotel for a hooker.
Listen, you are reacting exactly the way he wants you to, and he will continue acting in a way to keep you angry and mad at him. It's much easier to D someone who is angry and unhappy with you. I'm sure he's very pleased with that. It confirms he's making the right decision.
Being angry isn't going to change the money situation. You need to fully separate your money from him (close --or drain your portion of assests from-- all shared accounts, credit cards, etc... first thing in the morning!!!). Then start your own accounts and begin taking care of things as if he died (with zero insurance!) yesterday. Get a renter or two. If possible, think of this "guy" who comes to your house to take the kid as free "child care."
This morning when my S got up he told me that the hotel was not for last night but for this weekend. I did a little snooping and called the hotel up to see if there really was a reservation....yep. I asked them if it is their policy to charge the CC before staying there. She said since it was an internet reservation then the charge is automatically processed. So, now I know what the charge is.
Lessons that I learned from this:
1. Try not to make ANY assumptions about the OEO. Let him show me his intentions instead of getting worked up over my thoughts.
2. When I let my thoughts run wild, it only serves to make ME emtionally upset and angry. I do not need those feelings in my life, so need to only focus on the now.
3. I still am not as detached as I need to be. Eventhough I have been pitch black for almost 2 weeks, I am still giving too much of my energy over to him and my anger. I need to start to exerscise again to release the frusteration and get the happy chemicals back up.
4. I can always count on my wise friends here to help me through a crisis, even if it turns out to be a self imposed crisis. Thank you all for the support and advice.
As far as completely seperating out the finances, I truly do not know how to do it any further than we already have. He put all of the utilities in his name with a secret password so I cant change any of them over to me. He does mostly pay them, I will address them only if they get disconnect.
My car still has a joint loan so I cannot transfer the title to me. The payments automatically come out of the joint account. The joint account is where his paycheck gets deposited into. He is responsible for paying all of the bills. Then I get a weekly allowance transfered to my acccount and he gets one transfered to his account. That is oue own individual spending money. <sigh> we will work this out in mediation. I am also going tohave the mediator tell him that he will no longer be allowed into the home. His visitations will need to be elsewhere. Im just trying to find was to not react anymore.
If you are financially separated as much as possile (similar to how it will be after the D), then that's all you can do.
Are you in a fault state? If so, you may want to use this hotel gig as a photo op (although, being so upset, you might want to have someone else take the photos).
Detaching is difficult and painful. It's okay to curl up like a caterpillar and hide out in a caccoon. Some day a strong and beautiful butterfly will emerge. I know that sounds a little corney, but the analogy is true.
It just takes time. Let go of the stranger your H became (alien being!) and look for the little silver linings in life. Do some things that make you happy.
<Sigh> I just feel so beat down at times. I hate this....I hate him at this point. I have to share what transpired over this weekend. He is such a selfish jerk these days....
OEO is NOT happy with me at all. He is throwing little tantrums at my brother. Thank god my bro is sheltering me from his spew. He is frusterated that I will no longer allow him to have direct access to me. He told my bro that after our mediation meeting next week, if things are not wrapped up he will keep making an appointment every week until this D@MN thing is over with. Like 20 years of marriage can be divided up in 2 hours.....dream on @sshole. I offered for him to have extended visitation over the Christmas holiday and he replied back that he was not going to take those days because it just is not healthy for our S to be in a hotel room that much.
Speaking of hotel rooms, I must share how O Enlightend One is such the model parent. He picks up Friday night and they hang out at the hotel playing video games all night. He keeps S up until 11pm. Saturday is spent playing video games, a little bit of swimming, and then more video games. He is up until 11 pm once more. This is my child who is already depressed and sleep deprivation makes him even worse. He has a STRICT bedtime of 8:30 that OEO and I both agreed to, that is , until now. Sunday comes along and they play video games until they check out, head over to OEO bro's house where they....you guessed it, played XBOX most of the day. As OEO is bringing S home for the night, he gets pulled over and the police man informs him that he has 2 outstanding speeding tickets, both with bench warrents. If my son was not in the car, the police man said he would have arrested OEO. When S got home, he imediately started to bawl because his dad might go to jail and he is soooo tired. ARRGGGG....thanks for creating such a mess for me to clean up @sshole.
Today I get to deal with the anger my son has because his father did not really make an effort to connect with him. He is lashing out at me because I am the only safe place he has. I get his behavior and it makes me sad that he has to go through this crap. Oh course, I am the one making this even harder because I am not bending over backwards for OEO....how could I be so selfish????? I mean, just because he left to go scr3w some skanky maggot in order to find himself so that he could be a better father even though he torn this family apart, I have no right to ask him to leave me alone so that I can find happiness and be a better mom after going through all of the crap I went through....Yeah, I can see how I am so unreasonable.
Just wanted to vent there for a moment. I truly am doing much better and am ready to face the D process at this point. It will be a relief to have the finances outlined...no more mystery on who will get what, it will all be laid out so that I can plan for mine and S's future.......
the light is on but no one is home, it still is hard to believe their stupidity. Even harder to see the pain our kids have to go through and such a shame their dad turn into a major @hole.
Remember, leave nothing unsaid during mediation, no loophole.
Sometimes I think the hole is just dug too deep, and the momentum of the thing so strong, that there's no space for turning back.
I understand you are both in a very emotional place, extremely angry with each other, blaming each other and in a hurry just to get through this whole thing. But it will pass... keep trying to detach. Being angry doesn't help wrinkles.
Go shopping!!!!
Ok, I am back to post an update. Funny how when you go NC there just isnt as much to complain about. He is still mad, he still thinks I am evil because I am making things hard for him for visitation.....hello, welcome to the big D.
Well, tomorrow I go to mediation......as OEO has said, "If we dont get this thing done in this session, then I am going to schedule an appointment every F'ing week until it is done!" Guess he is of the motivated verity. Honestly, I am not that torn up about it this time. My NC has let me step back and truly SEE the person he is now. He is NOT someone I want. He is broken. He is selfish. He is spiraling. The best thing for me has been the distance that I have put between us.
I requested that we have seperate rooms at mediation and that NC remains during negotiations. If I had to sit in the same room with him I think I would be torn up, but since I know I still do not have to look at him, I am ok. This is what I need right now. I am ready to let the man he has become go, even though I still mourn over the person he once was. Here is the thing though, I KNOW, and I do mean KNOW that I got the best of him. He has been spiralling down furhter and further for the last few years. Even maggot is not getting the man I once had. Afetr all, he is still prowling for others while living with maggot....how pathetic. He is going to live a very sad life if he continues on this path. I, on the other hand, have been forced to wake up and find myself. As scary as it has been, I now KNOW who I am. I do get lonely sometimes, but know that it is only a sign that I still having growing to do. I am not looking for anyone and would not desire to have a R when I still have growth in my life. When this pain/anger has passed then, and only then, will I even consider dating again.
Thank you all for being understand and supportive, even when I fell. I love you all!!!! Wish me luck and I will post an update after it is all over.
Hello Ms. Heart..
What a brilliant move.. separate rooms in mediation. That's a GREAT idea.
Down the line, which would you want more in your life... fuming at his injustice or focusing on your life. Have you read "Not 'Just' Friends"? A section in that book about forgiveness changed my perspective on the big picture of divorce.
It's always so much easier to get riled at the interloper, the other partner. The true culprit is your spouse. The more you blame 'her', him the greater a victim you become. You can do that, might even need to do that.. but let yourself go through the stages of grief rather than getting stuck.
Put your incredible soulful, loving, caring, postive energy into YOU. Be your best friend.
Walk tall, beautiful Heart. You're worth it.
*hugs*
Ah, thank you for your lovely words Gypsy. I KNOW in my heart that I need to forgive him for MY sake. I just dont know who to do it while in the midst of negotiating D. The anger I have is helping me to keep strong and fight for what is right instead of roll over because I have been beat down. Once the D is final, I plan on working on forgiving him completely....just not ready to do it yet.
So, I wanted to share my mediation expirience with you. Black clouds of smoke are pouring out of my ears from anger! Here is the thing.....we just spent 3 hours and got NOTHING resolved. She (the mediator) wanted to get the entire picture of our situation before truly discussing any terms....ok, fine, but when it came time to start to talk about terms, OEO only wanted to discuss how I was no longer going to let him into the house after the new year. So back and forth she went, each time saying hard hard it was on her to have us in seperate rooms. Too F 'ing bad. I dont know HOW many times I tried to explain that is was for my emotional health and physical health to have it this way. WHen she started talking with me at the begining of mediation she began by saying, "Last time you where here, you were living in Columbia, MO with your brother. It appeared that you had stolen your son away from OEO." I was taken aback for a moment and then said, "Um, Susan, I had cancer and moved in with my family so they could help take care of me since OEO was not will to do so. I went to great lenghts to make sure that OEO got to see our son for regular visitation and more." Can you see where this is going????
This is how my day went: First, he demanded that things stay the same with me leaving the home on his nights and weekend visitations......um, NO. Then she kept trying to say that it was his house too and that she has negotiated D's where one spouce live upstairs and the other in the basement until the D is final.....um, not goiing to happen. She kept trying to tell me that because the money was so tight that he could not afford to have his own place, I should let him have his visitations at the house.....I said he made his bed he can live in it. Besides, he DOES have a home, he chose to live with maggot. I told her I know I sound bitter, but that is because I am. You dont face possibly dying alone and just bounce back from that. SHe didnt get it. OEO then wanted me to agree to staying the way things are until APril 1st and then he would take his ENTIRE bonus (around 20,000) and the entire tax return (around 6,000) and set up an appartment. I looked at her and said NO F 'ING WAY! Half of that bonus is MINE to help start a new life with Owen since his POS father abandonded us. I WILL NOT GIVE THAT UP. Besides, he can take HIS half and go set up house with it. She tried to tell me that because OEO was paying for the mortgage technically he was giving me my maintenance which included the bonus amount and that I would be double dipping by taking part of his bonus. Through gritted teeth I said that we will have to agree to disagree on that one because that is not at all how I saw it.
We ended with her complaining once again on how hard seperate rooms are and that things take 2x's as long that way.....o'well.......and then we set up 2 more appointments in Jan. He has her so snowballed. She truly thinks he is a nice guy who is just having a hard time of it. I heard him joking with her and doing his usual shallow charming BS crap. Here I am trying to just be fair but feeling like she is already on his side. I told her there were things that I was more than willing to negotiate on, but this just was not one of them. Me and my son had to live with my friends and family for awhile, now it is OEO's turn. OEO can take him to his bro's house for his visitation, he can go and do fun things with Owen on his week night visitiations, he can stay at a hotel and pay for it out of the joint account, he can stay at his friend Chris and Tara's even. THey all have offered, these are all valid options. But nope, that is not what he wants to do. She then had the nerve to sit there and tell me he is trying to be a really good dad and shelter my son not only from the D, but from maggot as well. I could have jumped across the table and strangled her at that point.
At least I did not have to look at OEO at all. That really helped to keep me strong. I got to be angry, I got to cry and I got to just FEEL any emotion that I had without worrying about looking weak, or controlling or like a b!tch. The next time she complains I am going to say, "Susan, you can see that mediation is the way we both want to go on this. I am sorry you are not comfortable with how it is set up. If you like, we can find someone else who is more open to negotiating our terms in this manner." That will either shut her up or we will get a new mediator. I did find out that OEO wants me to put the house on the market in Jan.....again, not going to happen. I will not do it until late Feb or the begining on March. There is no point. I know I should probably insist on a new mediator, but I am not going to. I am a strong woman who has already talked to my L about what is fair and right. I know how to stand my ground. OEO is truly the weaker one and I can see him folding on many issues if I push them. Who cares what the mediator thinks of me. It only matters about the end game and there is nothing that says I have to sign one god d_mn piece of paper.
So, that is how my day has been so far. One of the things that I did while she was in with OEO was to take out my notebook and write down every reason why I hate him right now and why he is not good for me. I wrote 4 entire pages and was still going when the mediator walked back in. It really helped and it made the entire discussions of the D not scarry or painful. I think I am ready to get it over with. I even slept like a log last night, no fear, no anxiety. It was nice. I am doing pretty good, just gets me hot under the collar when you start to mess with my money. I'm just trying to find as much financial security fo rmy son as possible
NC has been helping me a lot. I can feel some of the anger slipping away and peace returning. I am no longer affraid to get D, which is a huge relief. I am even getting to a place closer to indifference when it comes to OEO. It is so much nicer to be here than where I have been for the last couple of months. I think I was unable to deal with some of my most raw emotions over the summer, so they came crashing in on me. They are finally receeding.
OEO is still very angry with me. I have tried to take the high road and offer a compermise. Even though I do not believe it is fair that I get forced out of my home 2 nights a week and one weekend a month, I decided to cave and let him have it back....mostly. After our disaster of a mediation appointment, he went on a rampage and filed a motion with a L. He started to threaten that he was going to fight me on everything and try to get full custody of our son. He didnt care how much it was going to cost, he just wanted me to suffer.
This is when I offered the olive branch. The exception is that I will only leave one weekend a month every other month AND that I am the one in control of paying the bills and the house payment (so he cant force forecloser on me) AND that he sign a mediation agreement that forces him to try mediation without any threatening motions through L, or he will have to pay all legal fees. So, even though I am givening in, it is a price to him as well. If he choses not to agree, that is fine, I will just hand everything over to my L to fight out and get an order that states he is no longer allowed in the family home.
I do NOT want to fight. I do NOT want to get ugly. I am trying very hard here to compromise even in the face of his bullying and threats. Part of me feels like I should not even give in to letting him stay at the house. After all, if I give him this one, who is to say he wont react the same way on the next issue and just to try and get what he wants. Is it wrong of me to not want him here? I am crazy for just wanting to feel like I have my own place while this is going on? What do you guys think? Should I have stuck to my guns or caved?
Is it wrong of me to not want him here? I am crazy for just wanting to feel like I have my own place while this is going on? What do you guys think? Should I have stuck to my guns or caved?
I don't think so. I don't think you're crazy at all! I think when I go through that next month prob. I want to cave in on all the issues that I don't really care about as much, but there are 1 or 2 issues that I'm going to hold strong about as much as possible. Don't know if that will work, but that's kind of how I parent too. You're kind of flexible about a bunch of stuff, but there are some basic things you just won't let the kids do. Like pick your battles kind of thing. Karen
Hey Ms Stalwart Heart..
Wow... I wish I had some of your sass in my situation.
I listened to spouse say he was ready to liquidate the 401K to go to trial and tell a judge why spouse's proposal was more just than the generosity of the Special Masters.
Anger and bitterness can make things so much worse. Think about making a list of what is most important to you and what you're willing to give (hopefully things your spouse really wants).
If your state is like mine, they have basic guidelines they follow as far as settlement goes. Extenuating circumstances can give one party a little edge unless you're willing to go to trial and then you have no idea what the judgment will be.. aside from huge legal fees.
Ask your lawyer what the typical guidelines are, what is considered fair, etc. Look at this realistically, rather than based on a sense of entitlement. I wish I would have known how to settle in June (3 months after he filed for divorce and the end of the 'waiting' period). We still had lots of savings, and an intact 401K. Oops...
But I wasn't there.. didn't get there until just recently.
This is about taking care of you and your son, not anger at your spouse and his personal choices. I couldn't be in the same room with lawyers and spouse without sobbing uncontrollably for an hour (which I later figured out cost $1000 in legal fees... that's a lot of Kleenex!).
Do you want to prove a point or move forward? In the end, it's your financial life dealt out on a table where folks figure out how to divide it in half and/or equitably.
Sucks.. but in the end you get a life back.
*hugs*
Hi BH,
Lost track of you! The last thing I read was that you were going to get a FB account so you could get up to speed on some of the acronyms.... Found your thread today. I will try and catch up on your sitch.....
I wish you well.
HUGS
Ready Change
BH, Merry Christmas!!! Hope you're having a good one!!! Karen
Thank you one and all for all of the wonderful support. It has been a very trying month for me. OEO has not held back in the mental abuse that he has in store for me. First, it starts with how I am being a horrible parent because I need time to heal from his infidelity. Then, he decides to consult with many expensive Ls in order to file stupid motions against me. He is hell bent on trying to get full custody of our son even though there is nothing to stand on. In the process, he is draining our finances so that we have nothing.....absolutely nothing. I have been reduce down to asking friends for hand me down clothes for my son because I cant even afford to buy him a coat or pants. Our mortgage payment is now 2 months behind. I truly think he is going to just let the home go into forclosure so he can fight me on god knows what.
I am tired. So very, very tired. This is not the path I wanted to take. I did not want things to get ugly. He feels he is justified in his actions because I asked him to no longer have any contact with me. I think I have reason to ask this of him. I mean I had to face a life threatening disease w/o him and deal with my son's depression and suicide attempts alone as well. Why is it so wrong for me to say I need my space to heal??? Even my son's therapist has said that O' Enlightend One should NOT be in my home. He says it triggers abandonment issues with our son. This is not healhty for him. Does OEO listen???? No, instead he uses this as his ammo to fight against me. I feel cornerd and dont know what to do. On one side is me and the therapist saying OEO should not be in the home....on the other is him saying that I am being mean and vindictive and he will not stand for it. He will fight me for full custody because I asked for peace. He is claiming I am being a horrible mother now, even though up until this point he has claimed I am a great mom. WTF????
SO, I have not been posting much because I am drained. I dont want this to go to L's but at this point dont see any alternative. He is the one chosing how this fight will be conducted. I am done. Completely done. Its funny, my brother made the comment to me that he could tell that I now see this as a finacial decision while OEO still is looking at this as an emotional deciasion. Why? He left me for his fat ugly maggot. I am now moving on and letting go. I dont want him in my life anymore. This is what is triggering all of the uglyness. I just dont get it. Maybe somebody who is a bit further along can shead some light on this........please??????
I am just trying to live buy the 90/10 rule......10% of life is what happens to us and 90% of life is how we chose to react to it. I am trying my hardest to react in a positive dignified manner...lord knows he is making that hard as well.
Thank you friends for being my support and checking on me. It has been a very rough month and I feel emotionally drained at the moment.........
Good morning, Sweet Heart..
Do you have a lawyer? If not, get a good one promptly. Tell them you want to aggressively settle this. Your lawyer will tell his lawyer that. His lawyer will tell him. Tell you lawyer what is happening. Like mine they may inform you that he's using bullying techniques on you because you still have a soft spot in your heart for him.
He's throwing blame, that's his frame of mind now. He had to justify leaving.. hence pinning it all on you.
Send him blessings, good wishes when he upsets and annoys you. Though I didn't believe it, doing that eased the anger so I was in a better place. That leads to forgiveness, which is a beautiful gift given to YOU.
Talk to your counselor about what you need to do to be in a good place to make good decisions. Mine works closely with my doc to monitor that the antidepressants I'm on are taking care of the depression. "Be in a good place to make good decisions." is one of my mantras.
Stop talking or speak of his actions minimally. The more I did, the more power I gave him, the more I put myself in a victim mode. What was I going to do? What were MY plans and actions?
Focus on how YOU are going to resolve this. You are the primary person, not him. Take the lead.
Rejection, betrayal and departure by a spouse wreaks havoc in the soul, mind and body. I've found that by taking care of me I move forward. When I fall into old habits, I get stuck and feel lost and hopeless. This is YOUR journey now. What do you need in your life?
You can do anything you want.. The world is your oyster.
*hugs*
Gypsy is right....
*HUGS and prayers*
wow BH, Im so sorry he's being such a jerk! well, even if there isnt' much left guess it's time to get your own L involved to protect yourself from loosing the house. Dont' know if they have them in your state, but in mine there is a court appointed person who speaks in behalf of the child, this person can tell the judge how badly OEO's behavior is affecting him, no way in heck can they give him full custody.
As far as of why OEO is behaving like this... who knows, it's just impossible to make sense of these idiots hon, you'll go crazy trying to figure them out, they defy all logic. Will pray for you and your son)))))) I hope you get the space you need from him.
Hi BH,
Remember, we are all here for you. Keep your chin high and keep moving forward. It does get better.
*HUGS and happy new year!*
I feel guilty....I know I should be checking in on my fellow friends and lending them support, I just cant. I am so tired. I am worn out. OEO has been filing motion after motion to try and take my son away from me. He is using my cancer as reason to show that I am no longer a fit parent. How could someone sink so low? How could the man I once loved used a deadly illness that I overcame against me? He will have to face the piper one day.
Thank you everyone for checking back in with me. It has been a rollercoaster of a ride. I thought that by going NC I would give myself peace, instead I have just created more problems. Here is a quick update...and please know that if I had the strength I would be there for all of you. I just cant right now. As soon as this storm passes, I look forward to re connecting to everyone. There is only so much one can do. Anywho.....so I spent New Years Eve with some friends in Indiana. I had a wonderful time. When I arrived home OEO has left me a 2 page letter that was nothing but spew. It was all justification n his part and how I am such a terrible person and I have force him into a corner because I will no longer communicate with him. I have to admit that it made me VERY angry when I read it, not to mention confused. It truly was not a very coherent letter, me and my friend could not make heads or tales of it, yet he was spitting venom one minute then wishing me peace the next????? I just let it go. That is his issue, not mine.
We have been trying to work out a contract for conduct during mediation. It has not been going very well. I finally decided enough is enough. If I sign this contract he gets to keep invading my home and forcing me out on a weekly basis. After talking to my S IC, I now can see how this is not healthy for him or me. To make matters worse, he filed a motion for change of venue. If it goes threw I have lined up a shark of a Lawyer here in St. Louis. This new L will force him out of my home until the D is final. If it does not go threw, then I am awarded a default motion since he missed the first two hearings. That means my D will be final and I will get everything I ask for. So, I am feeling ok and confident. I am ready to just be done with him.
Anyone who would threaten to use an illness as a defense to take a child completely away from a parent is scum in my book. Yet, despite everything he is trying to do, I still believe it is in my S best interest to have contact with his dad. Why do they stoop so low? Is it the OW whispering in his ear? From what I can tell things are not so rosy in that corner either. He is trying everything he can to get his own place. Too bad, you made your bed now you get to live in it. I am trying to let go of the anger I have. It is not nearly as intense as it was a month ago, but still there. That just tells me I am healing, but not healed.
I hope everyone is having a better year than the last one! Thinking of all of you and I am so appreciative of all of the support you have given me.
Hey Ms. Heart..
I think it's great you know what's good for you, what works, what doesn't. This board is a good example. You know it's here, you know folks care and accept you. Drop by when it's right. You're wonderful! *hugs*
Save the letter he wrote to share with the lawyer.
Kids need both their parents with or without divorce.
People react differently to fear and pain. Sometimes it's passive aggressive, sometimes it's being rotten, sometimes it's lashing out, crying.. the whole gamut. Forgive him for what he's doing. It's a great help for you.
Make no assumptions about OW, nothing. Work with the facts and what your goals are. Avoid being sucked up in his drama. My spouse abruptly left me while I was recovering from a serious head injury. People feel incredibly entitled to what's right from them when they make the decision to leave. Their reality is their own. What was important in the past is pushed aside for their new awareness. That's a place they're stuck in until they decide to move on. You can only work on you.
Thanks for stopping by and sharing. You're a good woman and a sweet heart!
*hugs*
Hi Sweetie!
Nice to hear from you. I agree with you, you need to take care of YOU and your R with daughter first. Remember that we are here for YOU whenever you need it. Don't worry about us. We have others here supporting US.
I wish you well during this difficult time. Stay focus on what is important.
We are praying for you. You are a strong woman and things will be OK.
*hugs*
Howdy everyone! I am doing really really well. Funny how there are so many ups and downs in this journey, hopefully the ups starts to out number the downs. It seems to be going that way.
Today I met with a local lawyer to talk about my case. He was very nice but pretty much a shark as well. I liked that. Anyway, he advised me to go ahead and have the venue changed. Then, as soon as the case is changed to St. Louis, he is going to file an emergency motion to establish temporary custody, temporary maintenance that includes enough to cover the house payment and utilities, a motion barring him from the house, and a motion that places a judgment against his upcoming bonus so that I get half. Then we talked about how to pay him. I told him my parents where willing to loan me the money....he stopped me right there. He said that I should get a credit card and charge his fees. This then becomes part of the marital debt and insures that OEO HAS to pay for at least half of my fees. He said in a case like mine where I can prove misconduct and bullying tatic, the judge tends to throw that debt back at the WAS. I told him that OEO was going to try and fight for full custody...he just started to laugh. He asked me a few question - have I ever been convicted of a crime, history of drug abuse, any proof of child abuse/neglect - obviously the answers where all NO! He said dont even worry about it. No Lawyer, after seeing our finances, is going to try and fight to win full custody. I told him that Owen's IC would testify on my behalf as well. He said it wont even come to that. I walked out of there feeling so confident and secure. The new L kept commenting on how organized I was and that it would help my case and keep cost down. I now feel like I have plan, a direction. I finally feel safe again. It is worth the $3500.00 to just get this over with and be able to move on.
After I got home, I check my email and had several different friends just checking in on me to make sure I am doing ok. I felt so loved. It really made my spirits soar. Then to top it off, and really close friend called and paid for me to go to a yoga class tonight. It helped to calm my mind and soul. I am truly blessed to have such supportive people in my life....including all of you here!
I was going to somehow get you my phone number because I had a great atty for you (a shark as well), but you are in terrific hands. That's what you need. Push it away, bh, give it to the lawyer. That's what he is there for, so you can stop worrying so much.
Your husband is desparate and reaching. Not to mention hurt and frustrated by your NC rule, and lashing out. Typical behavior but doesn't make it any easier. At some point, I think for your son's sake, you'll need to get to a place where you can have peaceful exchanges and communicate about son.
No need to hurry that though. Just continue being the amazing mom you are, get your rest, take care of yourself, and remember that what H says about you isn't true.
Its amazing how empowered you feel to have the good attorney, isn't it? I am so glad you found someone, I just don't think mediation would work, you guys have such high emotions at the moment.
HUGS !
hugs))))))))))))) i agree with lwb, the jerk is like a cornered animal spewing venom and threatening with anything he can think of, things are not going his way so he's going nuts.
Is there a third person neutral person that can intercede as far as dealing with your son and stuff that must be talked about?
Prayers your way, and I SURE hope there is a way to keep him away from you))))
So I met with the L today and had my old L change the venue to St. Louis. My file should be down here by next week. We talked about how to go about banning OEO from the house and what to do in certain situations. My brother is tired of being the middle man. OEO calls him numerous times a day, emails him lots of spew concerning legal threats against me and still feels the need to justify his position to my brother. My L advised me to break NC and send him an email telling him that I have granted his wish to have the venue changed. That I need to allow him to email me concerning S and any immediate finances. I hate that I have to do that. Just keeps the drama going in my opinion.
I had a wonderful weekend with my S and have felt at peace since last week. I know I am in good hands now so that gives me security. My son and I laughed all weekend long and I didnt really think that much about OEO. It feels good to be moving on and letting go. The anger is still slowly fading and indiference is setting in. THank you all for such wonderful support. You have really helped pick me back up through all of this....and lwb, I really apprecaite that you wanted to help me find a L also. That means so much to me.
I am physically feeling better as well so should be able to start to reconnect with all of my friends here soon. I am thinking of all of you! Hope last year is the worst year of all of our lives!
I am physically feeling better as well so should be able to start to reconnect with all of my friends here soon. I am thinking of all of you! Hope last year is the worst year of all of our lives!
I'm glad to hear you're doing better! I know it will be better for all of us this year!!! Karen
I'm glad to her that BH))))) good luck. If you follow your L's advice keep your emails simple and to the point hon.
Thank you friends for sticking with me and checking on me. I have reached a turning point, a change in my perception. THe rage is FINALLY going, it is draining from my soul and being replaced with indifference. My L told me that I had to break my NC and it terrified me. I had to send him a letter that stated that I was no longer interested in mediation, we now had to let the legal system work for us. I had this horrible feeling inside anticipating his reply. It was like being in a haunted house waiting for the guy to jump out at you from the dark corner. Well , sure enough he responded the next day with justification and spew....I was the bad guy, it was my fault that he left, I was a horrible mother, blah blah blah.
When I first read it I was hurt and angry, and then a since of peace came over me. I realized that through out our M, whenever something happend that hurt my feelings, OEO would twist it back around so that he was the victum and I had to build him up. This email responce was exactly the same behavior. He would not change when he loved me, why would he change now? So, I let it go and only responded without emotion and only addressed the few things that needed addressing. Of course he found a way to respond with more spew....but I just let it go as his baggage. I no longer need to carry it as well.
I truly am doing so much better. I think that by facing my greatest fear (which was hiring lawyers to fight it out) would leave me penniless, actually forced me to be stronger. I can see that my fears where so much bigger than the reality and by facing them I found peace. I realized that it is what it is and I am the one who gets to determine if that is good or bad. OEO can spout his spew, that is HIS baggage and I dont have to listen to it. By understanding this I have empowered myself to move on to a more beautiful life. He can stay stuck in his negativity while I continue to try and see the silver lining in it all. I am truly doing really good and I so appreciate you all continuing to be there for me.
Whoo hoo.. Ms. Strong Hearted..
What a fantastic place to be in! Beautiful!
What does OEO mean? An Oreo with no R?
My divorce was final yesterday. I wished I would have been able to cut the cord, not worry about details and walk away so much earlier. It's great to hear you're ahead of the learning curve!
*hugshugshugs*
Bh, I'm so happy for you!!!! Your H is the one that is messed-up, has baggage, is negative, and once you are really detached you will have a better, more positive, healthier life. Your life will be getting better and better, and sad to say your H will be stuck living with his old negative self... Karen
Hey Gyps...hope things are going really well for you. OEO stands for O Enlightend One because my STBXH likes to try and "fix" me. Apparently I am the entire reason everything feel apart. He has left books on how to find peace, sent me emails on how to embrace buddhism, and has even suggested seminars on how to meditate. He is so focused on fixing me that he refuses to see how broken he is. I guess that is how they opperate though, blame us for everything so they can feel better about the horrible things they do. Even his emails to me are full of blaming me. In the past it would crush me that he felt this way. Now, not so much. See, I have learnd a thing or two in this journey. First, I have learned that OEO is sick, very sick. He is no longer capable of being the man I once knew and loved. So he actually did me a favor by leaving me so that I wouldnt have to expirence the disappointmet of knowing that he just was not strong enough to hold a family together over and over again. I could have been in this disfunctional state for the next 50 years of my life....sheesh! It is kind of like in the movie Benjamin Button when he leaves because he knows in the long run it is not healthy for him to be around. In the long run it was not healthy for me and my son to have OEO around. And yes, Cat, he IS broke and I can see that crystal clear. I also can now understand that this is why he had to leave.
I look at OEO as a drug addict. When they are around normal, healthy people the feel dirty and can see their disfunctional behavior. So what do they do? They surround themselves with other drug addicts to normalize their life. When they are conversing with the scum of humanity they dont feel so bad for the choices they are making. Well, Ow is the scum that they find confort with. She is part of the sickness, not me. She is helping him to feel better about himself while I remind him that his choices are not right. I get that and I am letting it go. He gets to live in his sick existance of his life while I have been doing so much hard work to move on and get healthy. I know that the anger I felt was part of the process. I HAD to go through that in order to come out of the tunnel. This is all a journey and the anger was part of it. I am letting it go now because I dont need it any longer.
Thanks Karen for being there for me as well. I see he is the messed up one now. There was a point where we both were sad and sick but now it is just him. I am good and feeling so hopeful for my future. I can look back at my relationship and appreciate the good times while understanding that he was not someone who could weather the hard times. I know I will one day find that person, but only when I am ready for it. I look at this as an opportunity....an opportunity for me to take a moment to really find me. I no longer have the distraction of someone else to muddy the water. I now can truly just focus on my needs and happiness. That is very refreshing and freeing. OEO has chosen a very differnt path. He has chose to crawl among snakes to medicate his life instead of doing the true work of finding ones self. I actually feel sorry for him at this point. I have grown while he continues to medicate in order to just get by. I could not imagine living with that much fear and doubt. They say that the best revenge is to live well....yes, I am living well but it is not for revenge. I actually feel very sorry for OEO at this point, but not too sorry. After all, he is the one who chose this path. I am just able to make the best of this situation, not him.
Ms. Heart..
Spouse's behavior didn't change because of our divorce. He's always been this way. I just never saw it. I was never on the receiving end.
I look at some of the things he does. Where I can still get mad, I ask myself.. "How can I get mad at someone who is being who he is? Do I get mad at a dog for being a dog?" Spouse feels like he is being fair and generous. I see him as nickle and diming me and the kids.
We're all who we are.. it's just very different when you're looking from the outside in rather than the inside out.
*hugs*
I think that by facing my greatest fear (which was hiring lawyers to fight it out) would leave me penniless, actually forced me to be stronger. I can see that my fears where so much bigger than the reality and by facing them I found peace.
Isn't this amazing! And no one can help you 'get there', it just happens. I was so very terrified of that step, making the first mediation appt, and especially the actual 'filing' and getting the court date. But once it came and went, it was fine. I totally understand what you mean here.
Glad you are back. So glad.
I knew you would make it out of the muck. Because the muck is OEO, not you. Rise above, like you always do.
I dont get it, I really dont. He doesnt want me, claims he is the happiest he has ever been, and even sends emails to me telling me how horrible I am. What do I do, I dont react, I dont respond.....I keep my distance and try to stay in a healthy place. So then he changes his tatics.
He sends our son a letter.I gave it to S9 with a big smile on my face and said "Here is a letter from your dad, it is for you and you only. I think it is great that your dad did something special for you." S9 read it and then came to me with it. The letter was about a picture OEO (O Enlighten One) came across of S9. He wanted our son to know how much he LOVED this picture. Here is the thing.....the original pic is of ME and S face to face smiling. For years we all said that was our favorite picture of the 2 of us together. Well, in the version OEO sent, he cut me out of the pic. S wanted to know why I wasnt in the pic his dad sent......my reply, um, I dont know???? Now, come on...there are HUNDREDS of adorable pics of S alone, why send him this letter with a picture that has clearly cut me out of it? S actually got mad and said, "That was really mean of dad." Yep, honey, it was........
And then there was tonight. I just got back from my night out and tried to log into my email account. I have been locked out due to too many unsuccessful attempts to log in.....hmmmm.....that wasnt me, I've been gone. So, I thought I should change the password then.....hmm...unable to do that because of too many unsuccessful attempt to answer secret question. Gee, I wonder who was trying to gain access! About a month and a half ago he knew information that I never told him about. I suspected he was logging into my email. So, I changed all of my passwords and locked him out of the network. Guess maybe he thought he could log on......must suck not to have control over me anymore.
Of course this is just speculation, but the pieces fit so well......... I just dont get it!!! Still staying VERY dark.
Hi sweetie,
You sound like you are handling things great.
"Daddy is very confused right now" may be a good statement to remember......
*HUGS*
Hello Sweet Heart..
Are you still "Broken Hearted"?
Do you view your spouse as enlightened?
Small positive changes in thinking can reap huge rewards!
Love the way you move forward.
*hugs*
Hey, bh! Sounds like you're feeling good and great PMA and everything! I have to think that your H has to be feeling so differently about himself. Hopefully at some point he will straighten out again--he just sounds messed up to me. What do you say when daddy is kind of crazy? I usually say stuff like Daddy loves you very much or something (and they're in therapy too of course)!!! It'll be interesting to see what they think of him when they're older I think.... Karen
Ok friends....need a bit of reassurance here. I have never been D and this is my first time through the process. I know it is all not so fun and games and so I am trying to keep my reactions in tacked. I got a letter today from OEO's L (and NO Gypsy, that is complete sarcasim on my part....he is far from enlightend and very lost). The letter said that I need to allow OEO to kick me out of MY home so that he can continue his once a month weekend visitation here at the house like I originally promised and if I didnt I was a terrible mother.
<Clenching Fist> When I first read this I became so enraged. He left ME. He decided he rather live with maggot. Well, live with maggot and leave me out of it. After a few deep breathes I forwarded the letter to my L and decided to just let them handle it. I am terrified that he took the house payment to pay for the L retainer, but there is nothing I can do about that...I will just have to handle it if that what is what happens. ARGGG!!!! Focusing on all the pretty snowflakes now..............
And there are lots of pretty snowflakes!!! Getting ready to drive home from downtown right now.
Hand that bad boy letter to your lawyer, and wipe it clear from your mind. That is why you are helping your lawyer by his lake house (with your retainer), to ease your mind. Let it all happen. He has seen every trick in the book and knows when the bs is about to fly.
Ok friends....need a bit of reassurance here.
Hi sweetie! Breath deep 4 times, and enjoy every moment of it! Everything will be OK. I feel for you. These times are not fun. I feel I may 2x4 a little too much below, but I just want what is best for you....
I have never been D and this is my first time through the process.
How many times has your L been through a D? Let them handle the parts you can't.... I watched my L very carefully during the process. I learned a lot. What you resist, persist....(IE listen to your lawyer but do not be a door mat)....
I know it is all not so fun and games and so I am trying to keep my reactions in tacked.
..Keeping my emotions stuffed down and being completely logical while interacting with W and L and other professional involved in the D was a very good DECISION I made. I allowed my emotions to come out in other constructive ways. They are still coming out now.....But I did not allow them to interfere with what was important....
I got a letter today from OEO's L (and NO Gypsy, that is complete sarcasm on my part....he is far from enlightened and very lost).
I hope you don't mind a 2x4 butttt...Past out what you want to receive. This is a natural law. Is OEO RESPECTFUL?? Do you want others to respect you? I found that taking the higher road was a VERY GOOD DECISION....I know H has hurt you. You have every right to be angry. Just because you feel H has hurt you DOES NOT MEAN you should hurt him back...I FORGIVE Ms. R2C (She is no longer my legal W) frequently. DROPPING the anger rope was very healthy for me.
The letter said that I need to allow OEO to kick me out of MY home so that he can continue his once a month weekend visitation here at the house like I originally promised and if I didn't I was a terrible mother.
REALLY??? WOW (are you paraphrasing or are these the EXACT words used)....
<Clenching Fist> When I first read this I became so enraged
*HUGS* *HUGS* it is OK to be enraged... Feel thoses feelings
*HUGS* It is unfair. He is choosing a selfish path right now.....
He decided he rather live with maggot. Well, live with maggot and leave me out of it.
SORRY....
After a few deep breathes
Beautiful!!! Keep those going....THEY FEEL GREAT!!!!
I forwarded the letter to my L and decided to just let them handle it.{quote]PERFECT!!! That is what they get paid for. I decided I was not fighting with W during D. Any point of contention was given to L to argue.....
[quote] I am terrified that he took the house payment to pay for the L retainer, but there is nothing I can do about that...
That would be scarry...I always confirmed W was paying the bills....That was another GOOD CHOICE I made. Other people ASSUMED things were getting paid and got screwed....It is your choice to confirm things are happening. You can choose to call the bank and confirm the payment was made. I didn't want my credit messed up......
I will just have to handle it if that what is what happens. ARGGG!!!!
I have learned that the soon I address an issue, the less energy I have to put into it to fix it.....
Focusing on all the pretty snowflakes now..............
Tell us more about the pretty snowflakes!!! Tell us more about all the great things in your life that are not in turmoil....
*Sending you Big Long HUGS and prayers and lots of smiles!!!*
his L can ask for the moon but that doesn't mean you are to get it for him/them. Good on you that you just forward that to the L. So now you have decided you dont' want him coming over and changed your mind, you have a right to, just like he changed his mind about being a decent H/father.
You are allowing him to come see your son, that should've been good enough, but sadly if the house is still under his name I guess there is nothing from stopping him if he wants to come, legally at least. A man with some dignity would've let you have your space, but then again he has no dignity and can barely be called a man.
A few more months hon, it won't be like this forever)))))))
I am so angry right now that I am crying. I hate him and what he is doing to my son. Once again he has stopped making the house payment....ok, fine I will just have to deal with that but he refuses to see how his actions affect our son. Our son has holes in his pants, his shirts are too small, he needs winter gloves and the heater that warms his/my bedroom has been broken since this summer. This has caused the pipes to freeze at times and numerous plumbing issues. At least I have learned how to become very handy here lately. So why am I so enraged at the moment.....well, OEO knows our finacially situation and yet decided that this weekend with our son he should book a hotel that is 200+ a NIGHT! What the f### is he thinking???? I lost it and broke down and sent him an email saying while you are off playing disney land dad, maybe you could take a moment to look at your kid and see that he has needs things other than an expensive hotel! I know it will just go in one ear and out the other.......
Here is the thing. He feels completely justified in his actions because I am being mean by not letting him stay here. Hey, guess it wasnt mean that he broke the family and financially destroyed us, I'm just the big bad ogre. ARRGGGG!!!!!!
Our son has holes in his pants, his shirts are too small, he needs winter gloves and the heater that warms his/my bedroom has been broken since this summer. This has caused the pipes to freeze at times and numerous plumbing issues. At least I have learned how to become very handy here lately.
Bh, we're going through this a little too. Our central heater is busted and they want $5000+ to fix it and H isn't paying the mortgage so we have to move asap. We huddle over space heaters (my L lent me some of hers!) and my kids are wearing last year's clothes and all. But I've found that to be really bonding in a way between the kids and I. Tougher times makes us a tighter family I think. H is missing out on that. I think that's even a principle or something: like in the army basic training and frats and sororities make you go through Hell Week and they wind up bonding very closely because of that.
So why am I so enraged at the moment.....well, OEO knows our finacially situation and yet decided that this weekend with our son he should book a hotel that is 200+ a NIGHT! What the f### is he thinking???? I lost it and broke down and sent him an email saying while you are off playing disney land dad, maybe you could take a moment to look at your kid and see that he has needs things other than an expensive hotel! I know it will just go in one ear and out the other.......
My H goes on frequent vacations with OW, takes the kids out to restaurants, movies, shopping, etc. He's a Disney Dad. But I'm thinking when the kids get even a little older aren't they going to realize who was the parent that was always there for them no matter what? Not just a Disney parent. But anyway, I know that I'm there for them, and that helps too.
Here is the thing. He feels completely justified in his actions because I am being mean by not letting him stay here. Hey, guess it wasnt mean that he broke the family and financially destroyed us, I'm just the big bad ogre. ARRGGGG!!!!!!
And we all know that's not true. You drawing your boundaries doesn't mean he gets to throw money away because he's entitled to. You aren't the big, bad ogre, if anyone is it's him. I also think it seems like he is really trying to bait you and make you upset. I'm thinking some of that, like the hotel room, better to just ignore. You can't change his behavior, so why give him the reaction that he seems to enjoy maybe? ((((BH)))) Karen
Hey Ms. Heartfelt One..
Goodwill and consigment shops have gloves and clothes. It's not what the kids are used to but it's the right price.
What does your lawyer say about this? Can a motion be made for temporary alimoney and child support? Find out.
Ask yourself, what is the best for your children?
What is best for you?
What are your options?
What are you legally entitled to?
Bullies are bullies. That why you hire a lawyer.
*hugs*
hg, sorry honey)))))) what a dumb dumb man, I pray the legal stuff get settled soon and you don';t have to deal with this crap.
Hey Friends,
Thanks for the support and wonderful advice. Gyps I plan on making a run to our local kids resale shop. I have been waiting to get a few more funds so that I can get him some stuff. I just wanted OEO to have to actually see his son for once...to see the holes in his pants, the shirts that needed replacing. And yes cat he is a dumb dumd DUMB man.
Maybe one of the males here can help me with this and give me their perspective. I sent OEO an email yesterday requesting if maybe he could bring our son home and hour early so that we could go to a football party that some of my son's friends invited him to. His responce back was "This is my time and I'm not going to give it up." I have been incredibly flexible with him time and time again...offer more dates than we originally agreed to and allowing him to come early whenever he ask. Part of me feels like saying "No more!" If he cant/wont be flexible with me, why should I be with him......then I answer "because it is what is best for my S." Should I continue to be flexible with him even though he is such a sh!t?
I sent OEO an email yesterday requesting if maybe he could bring our son home and hour early so that we could go to a football party that some of my son's friends invited him to. His responce back was "This is my time and I'm not going to give it up."
Well, H and I have been swapping pretty easily, if he loses some hours to me for D's activities, we work out a time where he can get the extra time back. So he usually takes them Friday nights, and when D9 had a girl scout overnight that night, I said you could have Saturday night since you missed Friday. (Although that's date night for him with OW so he didn't even take me up on that). So like email (I prefer email esp. when H is being a jerk), and when you explain your son has a party with his friends he really wants to go to and you understand OEO will miss an hour of his planned time, but he could take/make up the hour the next day or next weekend or whatever? Karen
What is best for the kids is best for you.
I stood up to W and was not flexible for one of her mistakes....I felt better....
I wish you well.....
Any naughty nudges for Ready Change?
Thank you once again for all of the insight and definately for the support. Some days it is like you all are here helping me to stand back up. Most days I am good, and then <bam> something happens and I have to try and learn how to deal with it. Your wisdom and compassion have saved me time and time again.
I just need a place to let this out right now. I know I cant change the situation and crying over isnt going to fix it either. Still, part of me wants to ball my hands in a fist, stomp my feet and scream "No fair! No Fair!"
OEO pulled his paycheck. I knew it was a matter of time before he did it, but that doesnt lessen the anger whe it actually happend. My L called and talked to me about money. OEO is offering me what amounts to $300 less than what I need to even cover the utilites. He has said he would be responsible for the house payment as well. My L said that when you add it up it is 70% of OEO's salary and a judge would not give me that much. I told my L that if he is going to get credit for the house payment as part of support, then I want that money coming to me so I can make the payment. Here is the thing, OEO has no intension of making the house payment. He is going to stash that money aside along with the $1500 extra a month he will have and I am going to trying to keep my son fed and the utilites on. OEO let ALL of the utilites get so far behind that I now have 2 weeks to catch them all up or they will get disconnected. The gas bill is over $1000 behind alone. So, how am I going to pay these things when he has pulled the money??!!??
Then to top it off he sends me an email telling me how I am being a bad mother. I had a talk with my son about how we were going to have to cancel cable tv and the internet. My son didnt understand why (he is 9 1/2). I made a simple graph showing what is needed to live in a house....gas, electric, water, sewer, trash...and that right now money is really tight and we need to make sure these things are paid. In order to do that, we were going to have to cut back even further right now, but after the house sold and we get an apartment, then he could have those things again. Nothing too detailed, just a simple explination as to why he cant have things right now. I believe if he is old enough to ask the question, then he truly wants some kind of explination and I gave him one that was very age appropriate. I did not say "We can have these things because your dad took all of the money and now I am wondering how to make it when there isnt enough to pay for the utilities, let alone food and clothes for you." So, in the email I am accused of being a bad mother because I brought our son into our financial discussion and put unessary pressure on him. He deserves to be a kid and I am taking that away from him.....um, no, I'm not. You did that when you packed up and torn this family apart to chase your selfish dream of living with your maggot (for free I might add). You took it away when you left me to deal with cancer on my own and our son saw me day after day vomiting up blood and too weak to do much, and yet I was able to make it through. You did that when you placed our son in the middle by forcing him to come back into the house Tuesday night and want to know why it is that dad cant have his visitation in the home, even though your lawyer already informed you that you are no longer permitted inside. <sigh> Guess he still just needs me to be the bad guy. Heaven forbid he actually take some responsibility.
When does this end?????
Oh, Bh, this is so stressful. His email is silly. Of course, you had to tell your S9 the cable TV and internet were going to be temporarily cut off. Like a 9 year old wouldn't notice or figure that out??? That's just silly. I think your H has at least a little guilt over that and wants to try to put the blame on you to ease his own guilt.
I agree with you about getting the house payment money rather than just trusting (hah!) the untrustworthy to pay the payment. You can just say you need that amount for the house payment now and then apartment later and can work out the details for yourself. What does your L say about the 70%? I do know that they have things like that, which sucks. The temporary hearing they gave H 50% and the kids and I the other 50%. It's rough.
(((((BH))))))
Hi Sweetie,
I am so sorry you have to continue to deal with OEO's selfish behavior. Just remember that things will OK. You are a strong woman. Vent here and let the tears flow (Just not around OEO). They need to come out, so let them out when they come....
I know this is not fair, it is just the way it is....I enjoy screaming in the car. It is a great place to let out the frustrations.....
The gas bill is over $1000 behind alone. So, how am I going to pay these things when he has pulled the money??!!??
Sorry to hear this. It has to be frustrating....
Then to top it off he sends me an email telling me how I am being a bad mother.
That is his POV. You know beter than this. Do not take his garbage.....*HUGS* I think you handle your son's question perfectly.....
Patience sweetie, things will get better......Take care of yourself and son. keep doing work and focus on all that is good.....*HUGS*
I wish he would realize that he is making you both miserable with all this muck. Man oh man, you ticked him off when you alienated him from your life. That just proves what a cake-eater he was (I know, I have a cake eater in my life!), wanting you, and his new life. Not possible.
Keep your chin up. Keep polite. Keep up with your attorney, who should be able to get money out of H.
Of course he doesnt see what he is doing to me or our son. He is living in his MEMEMEME world, we are just the evil people trying to bring reality back into the picture. Hmph, whatever.
I guess I need to be thankful that I have a good L, even though he is costing me an arm and a leg. He is putting a hold on OEO's bonus check so that he cant get it until ALL of the utilities are paid up to date and ALL repairs to the house are completed and then whatever is left over will get divided in half. He is also putting the pressure on OEO's L to get some money to me. I am taking with him tomorrow and he is going to fill me in on everything. He also wants the 4 of us to sit down and just get this D negotiated and over with. He said that if the meeting goes well I could be completely D 30 days later. Yeah. Never thought I would be happy about the ending of my M. I still find it very sad that my H turned into this awful person, but he is the one who will have to continue to look himself in the mirror. Thank god I believe in Karma because I truly believe he is going to get smack hard one day.......
Hey Ms. Hearted..
I like your lawyer! I wish I could have settled the first go around.. or even known how to settle. With the way your spouse is behaving the longer it lasts, the worse it will get.
Good job on moving forward and letting go of the uck. Excellent!
Let us know how you're doing!
*hugs*
glad you have a good L, I pray that this whole things gets settled)))))
So, I talked to my L once again on Friday. OEO's L sent some kind of confusing letter that did not address any of the issues that are going on and only wanted to know if her client (OEO) could still maintane visitation in the house. Um, hello......we have ALREADY established this is NOT going to happen. OEO keeps lying to her as well. He told her that I had family in town so it should be ok for me to leave the house one weekend a month. I just started laughing and said to my L.......um, hmmmm, his brother lives 5 minutes from him while my brother is over 2 hours away!
So, OEO's L is out of town until Tuesday. I still have not gotten ANY F'ing money from him since he pulled his check. My L advised me to send an email asking him to please pay what he promised for support. OEO's responce back was....you already took what was left in the checking account. Consider THAT your support for this month. Also I want to see exactly where you are spending my money. I suspect that you are paying your student loans.....that is NOT how my support payment to our son is suppose to be used. I just sighed and thought what an ass. He left us with utilities that are being disconnect. I had to use the money in the account just to keep the gas on. Now he is saying "Too bad, that is all you get." If I had a bat, I swear I would hit him over and over and over and over and over again with it. So, there is no money for anything any more. But hey, he has got to keep his entire paycheck to take his whore out for Valentines dinner. Good for them and may they rot in hell. Unfortunately because I still do not have a judge yet there is nothing I can do at this moment. <Sigh> I have to believe it will all work out in the end.
So, the utilites are going to be shut off this week, my car payment is due and now I found out that I need to have surgery......but here is the kicker....OEO changed our insurance plan to an 80/20 coverage so now I can not even afford to get medical treatment. I talked to my doctor and he thinks I will be ok until this fall. I told him I am planning on getting a job when this is all over, so I will have insurance then. [censored]'s comment about the insurance was "Owen and I dont need it that often so why should I pay high premiums for us?" Meaning I know you need it but I going to try and screw you while I can. At least there is some kind of coverage right now, even if it sucks. I am wondering how much all of the test I jsut got done are going to cost me. I still have not paid all of my medical bills from before.
I did make a huge mistake this weekend. OEO had Owen on Valentines day from 10 am - 6 pm. Apparently, after he picked Owen up they went to the coffee house around the corner to have breakfast. They were there for a short period of time when OEO said that he saw someone that he knew and was going to go over and say hi. He would be right back and asked Owen to stay put. The woman was very chatty with OEO and laughing a bit. Owen watched the conversation very closely and for some reason became convienced that this was OEO's girlfriend. He immediately became overwhelmed with the situation and did not know how to handle it. Once OEO came back to Owen, Owen felt betrayed, sad and angry because of his assumptions. OEO told him it was a friend named Piper.....but by this time Owen was convienced it was his dad's girlfriend. For the rest of the day Owen was consumed with this thought. He told me that on a few occassions he broke down crying and when his dad asked what was wrong, he lied and said he was feeling bad about the divorce. By the time he got home he was so overwhelmed with the guilt of lying to his father all day long that it was "crushing" him. He just did not know how to handle having his dad's girlfriend so close when that is not what he wants to see.
When he walked into the house he immediately began to sob and tell me about his day. He told me that his dad had his girlfriend there. I did not jump to any conclusions, I just asked him what occured. He then told me about the coffee shop incident and I began to wonder if it truly was his girlfriend (although I would not put it past HER to do that kind of thing because of past behaviors where she has wanted me to know she is around). I asked Owen to tell me what kind of hair she had......Piper has really curly hair where the girlfriend has wavy hair. He could not quite remember. I asked if he could tell what color hair she had....was it brown (Piper) or Red (girlfriend)? He could not remember. I wanted to reassure him that it was not the girlfriend. I kept saying that I truly thought it was his friend from work, not his girlfriend. Owen would not listen to me and insisted it was the girlfriend. At this point he was in such distress and I made a bad judgment call. I said "Owen, your dad and I have talked about this and he has agreed to not bring anyone around until he is sure that it is someone that he loves and he knows you will love. I dont think it was her." After a few more moments of arguing with him, and I so hate to admit that I did this, I pulled up a picture of OEO's girlfriend and asked "Was this who you saw?" He said No, so I said then you did not see his girlfriend.
Once he saw the picture of the girlfriend it was like reality hit him hard. He was finally faced with seeing who his dad chose and he began to cry very hard. He said that he now knew that his dad had been lying to him this entire time and it crushed him. He never wanted to see her picture again. I hugged him and said I was so sorry for even showing him that picture. I was not thinking staight and he should never had been faced with seeing what she looked like until his dad was ready to introduce them.....if ever. My intent was to show him that his dad had not brought his girlfriend into his life at this moment, but instead I caused him more pain by showing him the reality of what is actually occuring. If I could take that moment back, I would.
He was so consumed with the guilt of lying to his dad all day long as well. OEO kept asking if he was ok and he told me " I kept saying yes even though all I wanted to do was cry. I just wanted to come home to you." I told him that I thought his dad would understand what he was going through and that he should not feel bad for what he said. He is just not ready to talk to his dad yet, but maybe in the future he could say "I'm just not comfortable talking right now." That way he did not feel like he was lying, but got to have the security of knowing he did not have to open up right then.
When I asked Owen what they did all day he said that they went to the coffee house for awhile, went to have lunch, then went back to the coffee house to play World of Warcraft until he had to go home. That was 6+ hours doing nothing but playing on the freaking computer!!!! It makes me sad to hear that this is the only connection that OEO is providing for Owen. I think it is truly affecting Owen, but I dont get to say how they spend there time.
I feel just awful for what I did and wish I could take it back. Now I am left wonderfing how I can make things better. Today was a better day and we did talk some about how he felt yesterday...he seems to be in a better state, but still I wonder how much damage I caused. God, I just wish there was a manual on how to handle this stuff. On one hand I want to be honest with him so he can trust me, but on the other hand there are still things that he doesnt need to know. ARGG! I am still so angry with myself!
Hey Ms. Heart..
No one is perfect. Guilt consumes. I try to forgive myself, apologize to those concerned and move forward adding one more thing to the 'what not to do' list.
What does your lawyer say about your utilities, etc? Your spouse can see your general expenses in a financial affidavit you have to fill out as part of the discovery process through the lawyers.
One note of caution.. and talk to your lawyer about this. What is your strategy? What is his experience with spouses who behave like yours? Tap into his experience to get the best overall outcome. In my case I hit the 'get it over' stage. Ex was depleting all our assets on legal fees and blaming me. Oh, how I wished I knew how to cut and run.
Look at the standard settlement, know your priorities. Take care of things without emotion. Easier said than done.
*hugs*
PS.. remember.. the more it's about you, rather than him, the better you feel!
you did nothing wrong, I would've done the same (show the pict) if my son got that upset. Picture or no picture he already feels bad about it, you didn't bring this upon him, his dad did.
I'm sorry about the $ being such an issue, Ihope your L can make that jerk pay you, praying for you and your little one))))))))))))))) it breaks my heart when our little ones cry because of these jerks. HUGS))))))))))))
Thanks Gyps for your beautiful words.....they are always uplifting. And Ready, you always come through with hugs when I need them. Cat, I love your direct point of view, you seem to share my anger and that makes me feel like what I am feeling is normal. lwb, my fellow St. Louis friend, thank you for your continuing to check on me and for always being so positive. You all have been such pillars of strength to me.
So, I talked to my L today. We discussed a few different things about what is going on. First, we have all agreed to meet next Wed to try and just settle everything once and for all. OEO has voiced his concern that he doesnt feel that I am truly interested in getting it done because, according to him, I made our last mediation appointment a complete failure. Hmmmm......I thought that a bit odd as he was the one who spent 3 hours doing nothing but arguing about his right to kick me out of the house......whatever. My L knows that I am very motivated at this point to finally get this crap over with.
My L once again addressed that I have not recieved support from OEO. He said that OEO's L seemed truly surprised and said she would definately talk to him and she what she could do. Hopefully she can convience him to give me some money. I have managed to pay the gas bill to keep it on, but dont have enough for any of the other bills. To top it off, I just got my latest statement from L and I have already used up my entire retainer just on this back and forth crap that OEO's L is pulling. Nothing has been filed, nothing has been done and all of my money has been spent! Im just trying to look at it like five years from now, that bill will be paid and I will have gotten the representation that I needed to get a fair settlement.
Final bit of news is that OEO told his L that he would NOT be getting a bonus check this year. He told her that his boss pulled him aside and said that he has been put on probation and if things do not dramatically improve in the next 2 weeks, then he will be let go.........talk about a range of emotions. First, as much as OEO has lied and stolen money from me and his grandmother, I dont believe for one moment that he is NOT going to get a bonus. I truly believe this is just an attempt to hide around 20k from me. But then I swing the other way and think...holy sh!t....what if he does get fired. I mean the man obviously is screwing up everything thing in his life. Is it so hard to believe that getting fired isnt just next on the list of wonderful MLC achievements? So, I sit here and wonder to myself "How can I protect myself from the crap he is pulling? How can I make sure Owen and I are safe if he truly does lose his job?" I have alot of thinking to do and alot of planning to get into place. God, this is just so tiring at times!!!
Other than that, emotionally I am actually doing great. I dont dwell on his shenanegans any more. I just leave it to the univers to handle things. I cant imagine that his life is very fulfilling, especially when I know he is not even connecting to his son. I also know that I am happy. Funny, my life is completely falling apart right now, but for some reason I feel like it is ok. It is like things have to be torn down before they can be rebuilt. Once this rebuilding process is over, my life will be stronger than ever. I'm not even feeling the rage anymore. Just a twitch of anger when something new happens, but then it is gone....I leaving it to the Lawyer gods to determine the course now. (((HUGS))) to everyone one of you beautiful people who have helped me so much.
Wow.. Ms. Heart..
That was beautiful! I'm taking notes!
*hugs*
Thanks Gyps.....I find your words so inspirational as well.
Ok, I am going to share my day. Lets just say I got to visit crazy town today. I arrived at Owen's IC appointment and OEO was already there with my son. I went to "my" waiting room area while they stayed in their secluded corner. The Dr took Owen in and talked with him for about 45 min. He then called me and OEO in to talk about how things are going. I had already sent him a very detailed email talking about problems Owen is having, and I copied the angry emails OEO has sent to me and I attached the letter that he sent with the pic of me cut out. When the doc talked to us he started out by saying that neither one of us is putting Owen in the middle (I think he said this because of the emails OEO sent me accusing me of putting him in the middle). I told him about some of the concerns the school counselor has passed on to me, about how Owen doesnt open up but tries to find ways to divert attention from uncomfortable situations. As the session progressed, OEO monopolised the conversation with all of his talk about how he is trying to show Owen a more positive path, a way to see the good in every situation......I just rolled my eyes at this. The doc could see that I was seething with anger by this point. Finally, I just could not keep it in any more and said "Dr Mike, could you PLEASE inform OEO that I am not a bad mother. Could you INFORM him that me talking with my son about our financial situation is not child abuse or me taking his childhood away."
Well, this opened a can of worms and OEO tried to say he never accused me of being a bad mother. He had his therapist read the email he sent to me and they both agreed that it was a very peaceful comment about his concerns. I looked at Dr Mike and said "I forwarded his email to you....did that seem peaceful to you?" The doc was visiably uncomfortable being in the middle, but looked at OEO and said "Tell me how you think that responce was peaceful. There was alot of accusations in what you wrote and I can see how BH felt attacked." I looked at OEO and said "Yep, I forwarded what you sent to me on to Dr Mike." He stammerd a bit and then started to talk and talk and talk about how he is just trying to be a good dad and he just wants what is best for Owen and that he did not accuse me of being a bad mom........whatever.
There were so many things brought up in this session...how Owen does not feel emotionally safe with his dad (which OEO then accused me of brainwashing him to this point of view....surprise, surprise), how Owen felt he needed to lie to his dad and how he hates that his dad lies to him. OEO said that this was all my fault because I told Owen about OW and I had no right to do that. I simply said "I will not lie to him. You need to get that through your head right now. If he comes to me and ask if you are living with you girlfriend I am going to say you need to talk to your dad about that but yes he is. I am not going to protect you. YOu need to start answering his questions instead of lying to him because you are harming your relationship with your son!" Well, he did NOT like that answer but I would not back down. I told him that if Owen was asking these questions, he was needing answers and I was not going to lie to him on anything.
Ok, here is where the weirdness starts. While in with the doc, the contempt I feel for OEO is just dripping from me. I dont hide my emotions well and OEO could tell that I hate him. The doc even ask at one point if I thought I could have a friendly relationship with OEO and I replied h3ll no. I never want to talk to him again. Thank god for email because that is all he is going to get from me anymore. So, the doc calls Owen back in and OEO is in his corner and I am in mine. All I thinking is "God, he is such an @ss." Then I started to think about the fact that I am going to be negotiating my D next week and it may not be in my best interest to leave things the way they are. I walk over to OEO and ask if we can talk. He says absolutely. He is very eager to talk to me. I start off with "When you called me to tell me you wrecked your car, all I could think was, d@mn, the F'er didnt die in the accident." I told him I reconized this was not a healthy place to be, that I did not want to continue to be the bitter exW. I wanted to let things go and move on but it was impossible with him coming in and out of my home. That is when the NC started.
I then appealed to his emotions and talked about how things have been so rough for Owen because of the financial choices that he continues to make. In our conversation I pretty much told him that I hated him, that I would not have contact with him as long as he was with his amoral maggot, that he was a sh!t because he change insurance coverage so that I now could no longer get the surgery I need, that I didnt know how he could look at himself in the mirror knowing what he has done......I did not hold back. I just didnt care anymore, I let him have it. But, I also was appealing to his since of wanting to be the hero. I kept telling him how hard things have been for OWen, how I could not make things work because there just wasnt any money. This is why I say things where wierd...for an hour I told him what a sh!t he is while mixing in pleas of we need money. By the time we left he was thanking me for having this conversation. He was so glad we could communicate and was hoping we could continue doing this in the future. He even called me after I left to leave a voice mail thanking me. He then called again....I handed the phone to Owen. OEO asked if he could talk to me. He told me he was going to pay for the internet connection from here on out, that he was going to try and change insurance coverage so that I could get insurance, was going to call the home owners insurance policy to try and fix that and he was going to give me money as well. Lets just say my jaw hit the floor.
After thinking about it I realized the reason he thought it was a good talk was becasue I gave him the opportunity to be the hero in the situation. It made him feel good to play the good guy and rescue us. Personally, I dont care how he feels, I am just looking at the end game. If I can get him to have simpathy for us while we are discussing the D, then I am in a better place when it comes to the settlement. Still it totally confuses me that he would think our conversation was a good one....not going to question it, just going to chalk it up to the crazy MLC mind. I did bring up how his job is going. Once again, he deflected all blaim from himself and placed it on his mean boss who's performance is not good so needs a fall guy.....OEO is insisting that he is just the fall guy in this situation. I looked at him and said that his life has been a total wreck and maybe that is why he is on the verge of getting fired.....his reply "Yes, it has for the last 18 months, but from Jan 1st until now things are going great." I almost snickerd out loud at that one. Gee I remember last May him telling me that things were bad before but now he is doing great because he found OW, then in July him saying that he had been fighting his depression but he finally got it under controll and was happy, then in Oct him saying that things had been pretty rough emotionally but he finally figured out how to be happy......it was so sad to see the denial spewing from him. Glad I am not caught in that mess.
After it was all over I did have an emotional reaction. It still hurt some to hear some of the things he said, and seeing him reminded me of the feelings I USED to have for him. Made me sad that he chose to take the path he did instead of working through some of the problems we had to make a stronger relationship. But then it was also a reminder of how weak he is and that I deserve so much more than he would ever be able to give me. The good thing was I did not find him attractive at all. I was waiting for that attraction to go away. It is so hard to let go when you are still drawn to them. ANyway, it was a hard day, but I got to say so many things that I wanted to say. I know it went in one ear and out the other....the fact that he thought we had a really good conversation proves that, but at least I think I am in a better position to have better negotiations next week. Here's hopen!
<Sigh> I hate that I had to see him, that my 4 months of NC have pretty much gone done the drain. I woke up to a couple of different emails from him. See, now he is feeling really good because he gets to act like the shiny knight saving the day. I have to just swollow it all until the D is final.
THe first email was him thanking me once again for opening up to him and explaining some of the reasons behind the decisions I made. He is glad to see that we are not thinking the worst of eachother, that we are trying to rebuild trust. <Snort> Yeah, right, like Im going to trust him with anything and I still think he is a no good mother F'er who deserves every bad thing that comes his way. I swear he must not have heard half of what I said because I really let him have it. Even said I didnt know how he could look at himself in the mirror, that he should be so filled with shame over what he has done.....anyway, I digress. In his email he tells me that he has made Jan house payment and that he is giving me some money. It is still $1000 short of what he is suppose to give me. I was so pissed off. He is expecting me to pat him on the back and thank him when he still is not fulfilling his obligations. What a self centered @ss!
I replied back that I am glad he has finally made a house payment but he still owes me more than what he just gave me. I also told him not to worry about trying to change the insurance because if he was agreeable on Wed, we could be D in 30-45 days. That was not enough time to get my surgery scheduled. I said I am just going to have to learn to get by w/o coverage. He responds back that I will have cobra for 3 years.....um, no I wont. I cant afford the $500 a month payment. He said that you never know what Wed will bring. He is trying to make me think that he is going to take care of me. Last time he made that promise, he came back offering a 1/3 of the alimony that the courts would have granted me. He is just such a smuck. I think it is sad that he is still trying to seek my approval for things so that he doesnt have to feel so bad for what he has done. After all, if I can be grateful to him then he must be an ok kind of guy. It is so clear to me now. I can see it for the BS it is. It is all about him, has nothing to do with actually doing the right thing for me or Owen. I am trying not to rock the boat until Wed in hopes of getting an easier settlement. Once that paper is signed it is NC all the way. Life is so much easier when I dont have to deal with him. ITs funny, me going NC really really bothered him. GUess he will get a taste of it agian when things are done. GOd, I miss the peace that I had there for awhile, but I see the light at the end of the tunnel.......
Hey, BH. I feel the same way. The more I NC the more peace and calmness I feel. The WAS are kind of crazy it seems like. Just a short time for you and then you can NC as much as you want. I'm glad you're trying to work with him keeping in mind that it's just a little while longer. It sounds like you're doing pretty good.
I get the anger sometimes too. My H told me a month or 2 ago, I should trust him rather than my L. Hah! To be honest, I think he's less trustworthy than my L, but I've learned to be less trusting. I was the kind of person that trusted 100% of people 100% of the time. And that's just not gonna work for me anyway. Now people have to earn my trust, or not as the case may be. I pray and read the Bible and I'm hoping with time the anger will get better. B/c I think it hurts me more than it does anyone else. Karen
Karen, I believe this journey leaves us with scars.....like making people earn our trust, but we are the ones who get to decided how deep they go. DO we keep picking at those wounds over and over again or do we just leave them alone to finally heal over. I feel have come to a place where I no longer keep opening up myself to that pain, and the NC was the bandage I needed to leave it alone and heal. SOunds like you are right there with me.
I had my meeting Wed morning to try and fianlize the terms for the D. I should have known with OEO so messed up in the head that things would not go as planed. It was me, my lawyer, OEO and his lawyer. Talk about one expensive day! Anyway.....So, I get there at 9 am and start to go over things with my attorney. We talk about visitation, maintenance, property division, debt division. Me and my L have our proposal all lined out to talk with them. They show up and we go through it all and I can see OEO getting angry. After we are done presenting it to them, they go into a different conference room and are in there for over an hour talking. Then his L comes and ask to talk to my L alone. SHe starts off by saying OEO is just devistated. THere really isnt anything to talk about and they have nothing to come back to the table with at this point. My L says, back up...what do you mean there is nothing to talk about. Cynthia (his L), our clients NEED us to negotiate this out. They dont have the money to fight over this stuff in court. She says that they have a problem with the dollar amount we proposed for maintenance. OEO was completely crushed over me only offering him the bare minimum for visitation (Wed and every other weekend). OEO does not like how I structured the debt division and they need to go over that as well (um, hello, I split the d@mn debt in half @sshole!). So, the next thing I know OEO and his L are packing up their stuff and leaving. Reminded me of our meditaion appointment all over again. My L keeps telling me it is not a bad thing, we made some progress and that they just need to take some time to process the information.
I just dont get it. Everything we proposed was incredibly reasonable. I made sure of that. I was not going in with a screw you attitude, but with a "lets spilt it all 50/50 and be on our way". Why cant he stomache that? And to not even be able to come back with a counter offer....WTF? He was even crying right before he left. I think it is kind of sad that he is the one who has wanted this, yet I dont think he really has processed what it really means....oh well, I just sat there with no emotional attachment to him anymore. He would not look at me, but I had no problem looking at him. To me this was just business.
THe last thing my L talked to me about is how OEO is still so pissed that he cant spend his weekend here at the house. He told me "Look BH, if I was his L I would be telling him to get an apartment asap. It will lower the alimony that he will have to pay to you because his expenses are calculated into it as well. SH, we need him to stay living with his girlfriend right now. We are only talking about 2 maybe 3 weekends that he will get to stay there before all of this is settled. It is in your best interest to let him come into the home." ARRGGGG!!!!! So, I said if he gives me just a bit more money so that it will cover my expenses for that weekend, then fine, he can come into the home. What a waste of a day.................
After I got home, I knew he was very upset and thought to myself "Hmm, seems like things will go better if I just reach out to him. So, I sent him an email saying I was sorry that he felt things went so badly that he needed to leave and not come back with his own proposal. I told him that I was just looking forward to getting this over with and was trying to be fair. He responded back with how he could not believe that I was so manipulative and he felt played. I told him that was not my intent, could he explain why he felt that way.....anyway, after appearing to be completely open to him (which I am way too smart to actually do, just give him pieces of information to make him feel better) he was once again thanking me over and over again for all of the wonderful communication.
See, I get it now....as long as I stroke him some and make him feel better he gets to avoid all of the guilt that is eating away at him. This then allows me to ultimately get what I need. I have no feeling for him anymore and realize that it is my best interest to play nice until the D is over. He will be more willing to work with me if he thinks we are still "friends". Whatever. Once the papers are singed it is NC all the way again. I still will not let him see me or talk with me on the phone. The only enteraction we have at this point is email, but that is still too much for my taste. I dont want him in my life at all. I only hope it will end soon.....................
Hey Ms. Heart...
Hug a butterfly..
Kiss bubbles..
Sing with your toes..
Hold on to tickles..
Count dandelion wisps as they fly...
*hugs*
I wanted to take a few moments and post my thoughts on my journey. Saturday it will be a year ago that he moved out. A year ago that my life completely changed and the fairy tale ended. I can remember believing that I could not live with out him, that I would shrivel up and die. Then as time passed, I knew I would survive, but still didnt really want to if he wasnt going to be there. Those feelings then transitioned into not wanting him to survive, to finally where I am today - only thinking of him as a sad little man that is truly broken.
I have found myself in this journey and have found my happiness. You never truly see how lonely you are in an empty relationship until others step in and give you the love you were missing. I thought when OEO left me I would never be loved again. Well the truth is I am now loved more than ever, my definition has just been changed. I have connected with my friends in a true and meaningful way that was lacking before. I always reserved that love for my husband. Now I know better.
In the begining I focused only on what a wonderful marriage I was losing. I could not understand how he could break us apart when we were so obviously soul mates. Later, I only focused on the negative aspects of our relationship. How could I have been so blind to how selfish this man has always been??? Now I realized that for 17 out of our 20 years together, there were good and bad. I am glad to have expierence the positives with him, and am trying to learn from the negatives, both his and mine. I learned what to look for next time around and what to stand up for as well. No longer will I play second fiddle to my own needs. No longer will I allow my boundaries to be crossed. They are there to protect me and my love that I give out.
From this site I have learned how to focus one minute at a time, then one hour, one day, one whatever. I learned to do what I needed to do just to cope and then to grow and finally to live. I am not the same person he left. I am better an more fulfilled. Ironic how the person he left bloosomed back into the person he fell in love with, but this time even stronger and healthier. He put me into a crisis that forced me to learn. It made me see the things in myself that I didnt like and then change them. I am glad I was given that gift, still hate the paper it came in. He, on the other hand, has digressed and has fallen even further. He craves the "fun" friends as to the meaningful ones. THey are easier to maintain and require little giving. I know that I am the last person he will have truly bonded with because he no longer is capable of be able to give of himself in that way. It is sad for him, but it actually helps me to know that I was the best thing that happend to him and he will never have me again. It gives me closure to know this and that I will be the one who is better off.....h#ll, I already am.
Its funny, when I first came here I refused to believe that my husband was following the same script as everyone else. I thought to the core of my being that he truly was different......didnt we all though? I got the same ILYNILWY speech that everyone got. I was told how this was all my fault just like everyone else. I even found out about there being an OP, just like most of us here do. For some reason, it still didnt click. For any newbies that might read this, they are all the same, they truly are. What finally convinced me was when we were having a conversation and he told me that he just had not been happy in the marriage for over ten years. I smiled inside and thought to myself "I was wondering when that little speech was going to happen. Guess now it has."
The ugliness that they exhibit is pretty standard as well. When I filed for divorce because he refused to attend MC with me and told me he wanted our R over with, he pulled his money and tried to cut me off. When I would act like his friend in hopes of establishing R, he was your typical cake eater.....loving the attention both women were giving to him. He would lie to my face, steal things from the house, and always play the victum no matter what the situation was. H#ll, I was fighting cancer and he STILL managed to make everything about him. Then, when I finally went NC, darker than the blackest night, wow did the meaness start.....threatening to try and take my child away from me, draining every penny from the bank account, trying to force the home into foreclosure, utilities getting disconnected.....its a wonder I didnt go mad. If I would not have had this site, I probably would have crumbled into a million pieces. Instead, all the strong LBS here helped me to keep standing and to keep fighting.
So here I am....a year later. No longer affraid to get divorced, actually looking forward to it. He, on the other hand, has now become the one to drag things out. Gee, isnt that in MLC the book as well? Once reality starts to set in on what divorce life is going to look like, the MLCers try and avoid facing it because it becomes too overwhelming for them. <Sigh> Guess it will eventually get done, that is what my lawyer is for. I need to read the script again because I dont know what comes next. From what I remember it is one of two things......he marries his OW as soon as possible and lives an empty, sad, shallow life that eventually becomes full of regret......or........they crash and burn and he shows up on my doorstep begging for a second chance (that is if I dont already have someone else). These two situations I have prepared for and both are the same - dont focus on his life at all, only focus on mine. He is no longer allowed to be a visitor in my kingdom. This princess deserves a prince and when I am ready, I will find him. Enlighten Fools my not apply!
Wow, Ms Heart..
Bravo!!!
You are incredible. What a rite of passage so articulately stated.
Time for a name change, lady... show your light...
*hugs*
I know that I am the last person he will have truly bonded with because he no longer is capable of be able to give of himself in that way.
I also try to remember that my xH loved me as best he could. While I saw myself giving my 'all' to stay married, he also gave his all. Its just a different amount of 'all', not good, not bad. His choices were bad after he gave up (the A, etc), but before that, he gave all he could.
Its funny, when I first came here I refused to believe that my husband was following the same script as everyone else.
Yup. Did that too.
I agree with Katie/Gypsy. Time for a new name....'healingheart' maybe...
Beautiful Heart
Babelicious Heart
New Woman
Reclaimed Heart
The Hot Tamale Momma..
Uhhhh.. maybe I should keep my day job!
*hugs*
[quote=lwb]
I also try to remember that my xH loved me as best he could. While I saw myself giving my 'all' to stay married, he also gave his all. Its just a different amount of 'all', not good, not bad. His choices were bad after he gave up (the A, etc), but before that, he gave all he could.
you took the words out of my mouth... I believe the same, at the time he was a good H trying his best to live a good life, after he left and let all that was good being drained out by bad friends, binge drinking and ow there was nothing left of that good person who loved me, whom I was proud of getting married with. That hust that pretends to be him is not the man I married, we got married loving each other with a future planned, he didnt' marry me because he was lonely desperate & miserable... that kind of M is what he will be having as soon as the D papers come through, in a week or so.
I wanted to take a few moments and post my thoughts on my journey. Saturday it will be a year ago that he moved out. A year ago that my life completely changed and the fairy tale ended. I can remember believing that I could not live with out him, that I would shrivel up and die. Then as time passed, I knew I would survive, but still didnt really want to if he wasnt going to be there. Those feelings then transitioned into not wanting him to survive, to finally where I am today - only thinking of him as a sad little man that is truly broken.
Hi BH,
I saw this post from a R2C link. All I can say is Wow, you sound so strong. Thanks for your words, they help all of us stay strong.
Jireh
Hi Sweetie!
Thanks for sharing your "thoughts on my journey" post. Lots of wise words!
HUGS
Oh my, has it really been that long since I posted? Have I really neglected my online friends that much? Wow! Guess I was out GAL and just didnt see how much time had passed.
SO much can happen in only a few months. Not long after I posted that, I met a truly wonderful man. We hit it off and we really clicked. We also knew to take things slow and truly get to know eachother. The more we found out the more we like one another, with the exception of one big thing....he wanted kids and I didnt. I made the hard decision to let him go. It really showed me how far I have come....the old me would have held on for dear life because we were so good together. The new me saw that it would only lead to pain and that I did not want to be the one to take his dream away.
My L sent the final draft of my divorce papers to me Friday. I contacted my STBXH to email a copy to him so that he could go over them. The next thing I know he is replying with a cryptic responce about how he has so many emotions concerning this and he now understands the mess he made and he wanted me to know he left OW. He hoped that my heart might still be open to him coming back, but he wanted to prove to me first that he was worthy. Talk about shocked. This is not what I was expecting.
He came over on Sat and we talked for 3 hours...mostly him apologising for everything he has done. He then called me Sun and wanted to let me know where he was moving to and what his plans where. He told me that he has know since Jan that he wanted to be with me and not OW, so he started an apology journal that he has been hoping to be able to give to me. Because of my strict NC, he has been respecting my boundaries and has been waiting for the right moment to tell me all of this stuff.
Today he sent me all kinds of emails and we talked again on the phone for about an hour. He has been very open to any and all of my questions and understands the feelings of complete rage I still have towards OW.
I am not going to jump into this at all. He still has so much growth to go through before he is ready for a relationship with anyone. Still, I have hope once again that maybe we are one of the ones that come through with an even better M. There are just so many conflicting emotions.....how do you regain trust? How to you start over when there was so much hurt? I am just taking it one day at a time right now, and if we were meant to be then we will be. In the mean time I am still insisting we get the D. I want to close this door before opening any other new ones. Besides, I got one heck of a settlement deal...want to make sure that is in place before we try anything.
I hope everyone is doing well and that this brings hope to someone out there. I remember all of those lonely days where I just prayed to hear a success story. Here is the thing....I am a success story, not because my H is trying to come back and fix the damamge, but because I found myself and my own happiness in this journey. I am a new and better person now and it will happen to everyone who is going through this if they do the work. Even if we dont fully get back together, I am blessed.
I am going to start posting in the Piecing section so that I can come to a better decision about what I want and how to travel the best path. Cheers!
Hi BH,
I remember reading your posts and wondered what happened to you. You sound strong and beautiful! I just went back and read some of your older posts. I believe I'm in the same place you were - I'm tired of my H's bullsheet and just want it to be over. Trying to work with him on terms now - not going so well.
I hope you don't mind me quoting you but do you remember posting this?
I need to read the script again because I dont know what comes next. From what I remember it is one of two things......he marries his OW as soon as possible and lives an empty, sad, shallow life that eventually becomes full of regret......or........they crash and burn and he shows up on my doorstep begging for a second chance (that is if I dont already have someone else). These two situations I have prepared for and both are the same - dont focus on his life at all, only focus on mine.
Script indeed!
SF....you have me giggling. I dont remember posting that but I still feel the same way. Some may not agree with what I am about to say, but this is my journey and I need to doit my way. I decided I am still going to date other people and continue my own life. If my H proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has turned into a quality partner and if I think I can feel safe with him, then I will try that path as well. I feel I need to "try on" different personalities so that I can see who really is right for me. After he left, I found one that was oh so close, but there is still some learning that needs to be done on my part. This does NOT mean I am out sleeping around, just simple underrstanding what is best for me.
I will check on your sitch and see if there is any advice that I might be able to give. Thanks for checking in on me.
Ms. Beautiful Heart..
Oh
My
Gawd...
Amazing, incredible... astounding.
I adore you... phenomenal!!
Good for you on so many levels (and beyond!)
*hugshugshugs*
PS... What about an updated name..
Hi BH! Glad to hear from you. (I get anxious when peoples behavior abruptly changes.) I am glad you are doing so well. You sound like you have some good boundaries with H.
HUGS
please take it very very slow, make sure he wants back for the right reasons not because he is lonely and wants company, holding back a jump of victory for you, so much has passed and he's been pretty terrible to you for a long time, he needs to gain your trust. You do sound like you have your head on screwed on right
so I'm hoping and praying this is for the best))))))))))))))))))))))
Thinking of you, Ms. Beautiful Heart.
*hugs*