Happy Monday fellow DBers!
This morning I was admiring a peach tree in my back yard. It is now about 7 feet tall!
When it first emerged, I had no idea what it was. My yard gets rather jungle-y at times and I am always forgetting what I planted and when. But then, a friend came over and said, "Wow, I didn't know you had a peach!" and I remembered the story.
A few years ago I was enjoying the most delicious peach ever! It must have been in the summer, because I only eat peaches when they are in season. I am pretty sure I got this one from Farmer's Market. Well, the pit inside had split, and had a tiny sprout growing from it. I remember thinking hard about where to put it, and then planted it. I think that was 2 or 3 summers ago.
Well, now it is over 6 feet tall! No peaches this year, but I bet I get some next year...
This made me think of the unexpected surprises we get when we work on ourselves and GAL. You never know what will happen in this life. None of us here wanted to get D. But here we are. If you focus on yourself and take baby steps eventually you might end up with a peach tree! Or as our friend Barbie Doll likes to say, Lemonade!
Tomorrow I am going to a workshop for women entrepreneurs. I hope that I can really get a good foundation for when I start my own business. I decided that I need to learn more about it and do it "right" rather than just jumping in, willy-nilly.
I have an interesting prospect on e-Harmony. First live bite! I will keep you posted. After my experience w/ CG I am a little wary, but I am happy to meet new people, as always.
So I am hoping for everyone here a day filled with peace and positivity.
SG
a fuzzy navel, peach flavored please
whoohoo!! good luck with the prospect toots
have an awesome day
Wow Survival that's wonderful about your peach tree. I would be thrilled to discover that.
Makes you think how amazing life is and the instinct to survive,sometimes even against our own desires.
I see me after my H left dried up and shrivelled,I literally lost the will to live and aged so much.I lay dormant,in the dark then slowly through the love and nuturing of my children and others I started to live (grow) again. I am certainly no peach but I do feel like I blossomed. Lol.
Funny I was at a function just the other day and saw people I haven,t seen since the late 90's they couldn't believe how well and young I looked,one even asked another colleague if I'd had work! If she'd have asked me I'd have told her to see the optician!
I hope your first fruit will be the best peach you have ever had.
Good luck with workshop and eharmony man.
Hello Survival Goddess..
I saw your post for Hopeful in Calif.. talking about walking the labyrinth and immediately thought of Kripalu. Were you there? It was one of the most incredible places I've been.
*hugs*
Hi Gypsy,
While I have a regular yoga practice, I have never been to Kripalu. I read an interesting book by Stephen Cope about his experienced there for one year...and I have friends who used to go there.
The labyrinth is an ancient tool and is used by many cultures. I am lucky in that there is one as part of the grounds of a cemetery right near my house. So I can walk it whenever I feel the need. It is outdoors and it is similar to
this one and is mowed into the grass.
Thanks for the visit!
SG
Hi Gypsy,
While I have a regular yoga practice, I have never been to Kripalu. I read an interesting book by Stephen Cope about his experienced there for one year...and I have friends who used to go there.
The labyrinth is an ancient tool and is used by many cultures. I am lucky in that there is one as part of the grounds of a cemetery right near my house. So I can walk it whenever I feel the need. It is outdoors and it is similar to
this one and is mowed into the grass.
Thanks for the visit!
SG
Well my eharmony guy called me on my cell yesterday while I was at the dog park. We had a nice first chat...one of his questions was "How long have you been single?" Well I guess I have been "single" about 5 years.
For some reason I have been revisiting my very first posts. They aren't on the BB anymore, but I did save my first real thread on MLC to my computer.
Whew! Oh the pain! The agony! The horrible impact on the kids!
I truly feel much better now. But the conversation w/ FG (He is a florist) made me think about how cumbersome it it to go over our "story" with each new acquaintance. As I was finishing up my call to him, my girlfriend arrrived at the dog park w/her puppy...one of Argo's best friends! She is also D, and is a single mom to a teenage girl. We were talking about how different it is starting a relationship now, in our 50's compared to fresh out of HS or College. (X and I met in college, as I am sure a lot of you did...)
She made the point that when we are younger we are more naive, and maybe that is a good thing...We are full of hope and don't know any different. Now when we meet someone, there is all that history. And how soon do you go through the whole story?
Well FG wisely said there are some conversations that are better to be had in person. And I agree. I like his pictures a lot! But as we all know, the photographs can be misleading.
CG was still hurting, big time over his D which was over 7 years ago. He felt a lot of bitterness about losing a lot of "his" money in the settlement.
This new fellow has his own arrangements, as do I.
A lot of what we struggle with while going through the mediation process is "what is fair?"
I don't know if you can ever really quantify "fair"
In my case, I was never a full-time SAHM. I always worked or went to school part time. My schedule and my life was completely arranged to support my kids and my H, first while he was in Grad school, and then later as he started his career.
Sure, there is the 24/7 aspect of parenting that is really hard to comprehend until you do it. And I was creative, thrifty and supportive for the entire time. My so-called career was never really a career, it was just a way to bring in a little extra cash in a way that was compatible with the kid's schedule. I fully expected to be part of a "team" called my family and make my contributions by supporting the other 3 members in the best possible way. I did this for 19 years.
When I discovered the OGIRL and kicked H out after the 3rd time of discovering his lies, I was forced to,
by circumstances, try and make the best of my life. I went back to school and got my Master's degree. I graduated over 2 years ago. And while I have had some interesting and rewarding work, my level of income is less than 1/3 of what is was before the D. It has been VERY DIFFICULT.
Blaming SAHMs for not having career success while being thrust into it at midlife is the
same as blaming the victim of a crime. I for one have done the best I possibly could have done with my life and circumstances. I fully expected to be making a decent salary at this point, but it is not happening.
In California there is no such thing as alimony if you are in my situation, and I am glad. I get this chance to make it on my own. Yay me. If, however, I hadn't had the help of my parents I would be one of those people you read about in the papers.
There is the emotional toll of divorce, and in MANY cases there is the financial toll. I know that someday I will come out on top, but it has been much harder than expected.
Too bad I didn't luck into an admin job with a fortune 500 heir. Instead I have been busy teaching 21st century skills to children who don't have a chance to learn these skills at home because they don't have an Internet connection.
So I guess the point is we all work hard. We all deserve credit. And we all had to change our plans, switch gears due to the D.
SG
Well said SG. I could not add a thing to your post to make it more real.
CG was still hurting, big time over his D which was over 7 years ago. He felt a lot of bitterness about losing a lot of "his" money in the settlement.
Yes, how soon people forget others contributions.
In my case, I was never a full-time SAHM. I always worked or went to school part time. My schedule and my life was completely arranged to support my kids and my H, first while he was in Grad school, and then later as he started his career.
Sure, there is the 24/7 aspect of parenting that is really hard to comprehend until you do it. And I was creative, thrifty and supportive for the entire time. My so-called career was never really a career, it was just a way to bring in a little extra cash in a way that was compatible with the kid's schedule. I fully expected to be part of a "team" called my family and make my contributions by supporting the other 3 members in the best possible way. I did this for 19 years.
I worked full time throughout my kids' lives, but either way, whether it had been part-time or full time, I was the one who picked them up from daycare every single day, who fed them dinner every single night, who gave them their baths every single night, who read them their books every single night, and when they went to school - the one who made it to the parent-teacher conferences, the one who made sure their homework was done, the one who help with their projects, the one who punished and praised, and did all that stuff - as did you.
Because it doesn't matter whether you're a SAHM or a working mom, or a SAHD, or a working dad. Those who really get it that having kids is a real other job know how hard it is and those who have never done so have
NO EARTHLY IDEA how hard it is. But it's the hardest, best thing we will ever do.
Unless you've ever done it, you have no idea what it's all about. Not a frickin' clue.
You guys are so right. As one who doesn't have kids, I applaud you. I really don't know how you do it and I admire you all. Well, maybe not all parents but the ones who seem to get it like yourselves.
Hey SG:
You sound awesome! Love hearing about your Peach Tree - boy it sure grew fast. Must've been meant to be.
I think we struggle in many many ways when we go through a D. When there are kids, homes, finances, adultery involved - there is so much to deal with - you can only live through it one day at a time. But we do get through or else we get stuck and can't move forward. I wonder if that is where CG is. Stuck. Sometimes a therapy checkup is in order.
SAHM or fulltime mom with a career - there is no shame in either - only KUDOS all around. I can't think of any Mom on this bb who didn't always put her kids first and make sacrifices in order to do so. Some of us are still doing that. For me - Ashley is still living at home and I'm paying to educate her. Ryan will ALWAYS be my primary concern in all ways as he is totally dependent. I have had the pleasure of meeting your son and know you have done a fine job in parenting.
New guy sounds interesting. One thing I learned when dating was not to spend much time in the early days discussing D issues. Best to concentrate on the moment.
And WOW - dating a florist - that could be wonderful!
CHEERS SG - I'll lift my glass of lemonade to your peach drink.
Barb
Naej: Don't ever sell yourself short. When we met - I knew you were one of the kindest, most hospitable friend I'd ever met. Only sorry it lasted such a short time. I'm glad you met my daughter too, though.
Barb
Hey SG,
Just saying hi - not sure if you're in my neighborhood or not. Anyway, I have a labyrinth nearby that I've walked, gone up to Grace Cathedral in the city too.
And, I have a peach tree! It's about 9 feet tall now and is so full of peaches this year that the whole thing is bending over - it's like a charlie brown peach tree. I've been eating them on my cereal. Unfortunately they bruise and turn brown extraordinarily fast so many of them aren't getting eaten.
Anyway, hope all is well - lodo
SG
Love your post--You are one smart cookie. One smart peach cookie.
Like you I worked and was a SAHM, my ex and I decided he had the career, hey, what can I say, he was smarter and a college grad. Some people are born with a few more brain cells, dosnt mean others who arent are not worthy, we do the best we can! LOL
I think working and having the kids has got to be the most exhausting, there is NO punching out at the end of the day, what end of the day??
It takes a lot of different people to make the world go 'round, thank goodness for all of them! the SAHM ( like my mommy Ü) some half/halfers lol and career women ( and men) to each his own. All have pros and cons.
When my ex left, I was scared as I had been out of the full time work field for so long, THINKING I was doing the right thing, had a few episodes of " crapola what have I done to myself??" who knew tho??
You do your best, you work in retail or go back to school or flip burgers or drive a truck.
I admire you going back to school tho, thats so awesome, I dont think I have it in me, so really admire those who do!
Good Luck w/ FG! what a cool job!!!
Hi SG:
Blaming SAHMs for not having career success while being thrust into it at midlife is the same as blaming the victim of a crime. I for one have done the best I possibly could have done with my life and circumstances. I fully expected to be making a decent salary at this point, but it is not happening.
As I am re-connecting with my Indian heritage, my Indian values are resonating in my posts. As I posted to FLTC, the values associated with my heritage have no place on this BB. Part of why I am leaving the BB. I have decided that socializing with people of my own heritage is a better fit for me.
That whole integrated AG was much nicer wasn't it? Well - after I am gone - you will have a nice BB with very nice uniform Western values again.
Since I am getting a little tired of blending in - how about I thrust the entire history of my Indian family right at you.
My mother had 9 brothers and sisters. All of them were required to earn at least a masters before they got M in a field that enabled them to earn a living. Most of them have Ph.D's. I think two of them are Fulbright scholars. This is a group generation that ranges in age from 65-85. Most of them came here and went to Ivy Leagues schools here. Education is everything. We save money for education first - everything else is a lesser priority. And they achieved this in British India - colonial rule does make things a little more difficult.
I know the West looks down on and mocks our system of arranged M's. However - it works for many in my culture. All of the men M women with the education and ability to earn a living that can sustain a family before they got M. My uncle wanted to M someone that would be a stay at home wife - not some woman that would go to school and challenge him too much. My grandmother told him - he would have to find his own W if those were his standards. My mother slacked off while working on her Masters - my grandfather pulled her aside and told her that if she thought he would arrange her M so she could get out of finishing her degree - it was not going to happen.
My generation - 18 cousins on my mother's side - all of us have a minimum of a masters. Many of us are at least engineers - that includes 3 women. All the men in our family M women that are professionals and have the ability to earn a living on par with their H's.
My father grew up in Bangladesh and his family lost everything during the British partion of India. He had 8 siblings. That interfered with the education thing b/c they left everything behind as they ran for their lives. My father - could probably write a book about the lengths he went to come to this country to get an education. He has a Ph.d in civil engineering.
My father paid for every single one of my cousins on my father's side of the family to go to college in India. I have 18 paternal first cousins - yes very symmetrical. They all have a minimum of a masters - both men and women b/c once again we are required to go to school for an eduction to learn something that we can use to earn a living. All of them are M to P's with comparable income capacity.
When I was growing up - I was not allowed to date. We were never out of the house past 6 pm - yes that is right 6 pm until I left for college. I was not required to do chores. The only thing my family demanded of me was excelling in school. I started staying up nights to study for finals when I was 13. I partied and had fun - did the whole Western drinking and sex thing - but I never ever lost sight of my primary goal.
As for me - I fully intend to carry on my family's tradition. My priority post D was not finding an R. It was financially stabilizing myself. Once again - that would be an Indian thing...
And while in our social gatherings - we do not go on endlessly about boobs and nuts. If you ever decide to go to India - you will see huge billboards everywhere promoting safe sex through condom use.
I will reserve these conversations for folks of my own heritage.
Thank you for your post. It validated my decision to limit my non-Indian social circle to overachievers only.
Regards,
AG
Thank you for your post. It validated my decision to limit my non-Indian social circle to overachievers only.
Regards,
AG
Wow. I could not believe my eyes when I read this post. And this last sentence is a zinger. So you won't hang out with non-Indians unless they're overachievers? What a concept. What comes next...separating the underachievers from the overachievers and having separate communities for them? Hmmm, isn't that the same as segregation?
Let me tell you something...having a degree or several degrees doesn't make someone "smarter" than someone who doesn't. I have a degree and my BF since third grade doesn't. In fact, she didn't graduate high school. She did get her GED though. And I'm sure in your eyes that makes her an underachiever. Maybe there are other things that you would say about her b/c of that. She is one of the smartest, most sincere and loyal people you'd ever want to meet. Her compassion for people regardless of race, religion or heritage is amazing. A lot of people should be more like her.
As for the West (that would be me) mocking arranged marriages, well, I never gave it much thought. Still don't. Who cares? If someone wants to enter a M that way, it's up to them. I don't look down on it. I have my own problems. The same way I don't care if someone marries outside their race or religion. Who cares? Isn't being happy what counts?
I have several Indian acquaintances who would be flabbergasted to read your posts about your heritage and your lofty feelings of self-importance. One of them is a doctor and she is the sweetest person. She was widowed early and has put her three children through college, all at Ivy League schools. She works hard and there is no way she looks down on anyone if they don't have a degree to match hers.
And you seem to put down the West and the Western way of doing things, yet you say you had fun and did the whole Western drinking and sex thing. You hung out with the rich bunco wives and talk about them behind their backs. Why hang with them in the first place?
Good luck with your self-imposed limits on your social life. Maybe you'll find the peace and solace you're looking for in the circle of people you choose of your heritage. I'm glad I didn't do that. I would have missed out on some truly wonderful friendships if I limited my social circle to people of my own heritage. There's a rich melting pot of cultures out there and I've had fun getting to know about those cultures and making friends of many different ethnic backgrounds over the course of my life. How lucky am I?
SE
Yikes!!!
I just have to say that I'm gobsmacked (not a very intelligent word, I'm thinkin') at what AG has stated here.
SG & SE, I applaud both of you. I worked full time and went to college while my D was young. This would have been impossible if my X hadn't owned his own business and could set his own hours. When she got involved in sports (3rd grade) I am proud to admit that I was the only Mom who made every sporting event she participated in until she graduated!!! "She" was my priority.
Also, if I'd had someone to pay my way (like AG did), I easily could've become a full time student for years on end. I loved college and did very well there. I didn't have that luxury. I was not smart enough to have my career stabilized before I had children. Ya know, sometimes they just come when you're not planning for them. But......I wouldn't change a single thing about my life.
I'm happy right where I am and AG is obviously full of angst on a daily basis. AG, you seem to thrive on pissing people off indirectly. So go already, huh? Hang out with your own kind and leave us underly ambitious, foul mouthed heathens to fend for ourselves. I was OK with you posting about your angst on your own thread and just ignored it but now you've taken to posting everywnere and it's more difficult to ignore. This is ridiculous.....
Yikes!!!
I just have to say that I'm gobsmacked (not a very intelligent word, I'm thinkin') at what AG has stated here.
SG & SE, I applaud both of you.
Thank you. Thank you very much. (That's my best Elvis.) 
I worked full time and went to college while my D was young. This would have been impossible if my X hadn't owned his own business and could set his own hours. When she got involved in sports (3rd grade) I am proud to admit that I was the only Mom who made every sporting event she participated in until she graduated!!! "She" was my priority.
Good for you. I also worked and had 3 kids in under 3 1/2 yrs. I was and still am an awesome mom. Does that make me my hero? Also, if I'd had someone to pay my way (like AG did), I easily could've become a full time student for years on end. I loved college and did very well there. I didn't have that luxury. I was not smart enough to have my career stabilized before I had children. Ya know, sometimes they just come when you're not planning for them. But......I wouldn't change a single thing about my life.
I feel the same way as you. It sure would be nice to have someone pay for college. Unfortunately not everyone has that option. I wonder what AG would have done had she been born into a less privileged family? There are lots of those kinds of families in every ethnic group. I'm happy right where I am and AG is obviously full of angst on a daily basis. AG, you seem to thrive on pissing people off indirectly. So go already, huh? Hang out with your own kind and leave us underly ambitious, foul mouthed heathens to fend for ourselves.
Is that what we are? lol
I was OK with you posting about your angst on your own thread and just ignored it but now you've taken to posting everywnere and it's more difficult to ignore. This is ridiculous.....
SE
As I posted to FLTC, the values associated with my heritage have no place on this BB.
Huh? (scratching head)
Part of why I am leaving the BB.
again Huh? b/c you keep saying, but you are still here.
how about I thrust the entire history of my Indian family right at you.
Um But, what does this have to do with SG's beautiful peach tree?
I know the West looks down on and mocks our system of arranged M's. However - it works for many in my culture. All of the men M women with the education and ability to earn a living that can sustain a family before they got M. My uncle wanted to M someone that would be a stay at home wife - not some woman that would go to school and challenge him too much. My grandmother told him - he would have to find his own W if those were his standards. My mother slacked off while working on her Masters - my grandfather pulled her aside and told her that if she thought he would arrange her M so she could get out of finishing her degree - it was not going to happen.
The West, as in everyone? Good grief, I haven't heard one person on this BB ever say anything against arranged marriages, or the like.
I think we all would agree that an education is wonderful.
My father grew up in Bangladesh and his family lost everything during the British partion of India. He had 8 siblings. That interfered with the education thing b/c they left everything behind as they ran for their lives. My father - could probably write a book about the lengths he went to come to this country to get an education. He has a Ph.d in civil engineering.
Well I think a book can be written about my wonderful father. A cuban political prisoner that escaped cuba and swam 90 miles in shark infested waters(while pushing my brother in a small raft)So that my brother and my dad can come to a country where my dad can speak his mind and not be arrested or killed for it.
My mom didn't have to escape thank God, she was allowed a pass, and guess what, she came with 7 boys, that later her and my father adopted. So I grew up in a house of 10 kids.
And my CULTURE is something I am so very proud of, and understand in parts where you are coming from. But to say that I will only associate with Cubans, that are educated seems like nothing that my wonderful culture has taught me.
To look down my nose at others would be disresctful to my family at best. I am sure it would be to your heritage also.
One of my best friends is from a beautiful Indian Culture and she would probably cry from reading what you wrote.
When I was growing up - I was not allowed to date. We were never out of the house past 6 pm - yes that is right 6 pm until I left for college. I was not required to do chores. The only thing my family demanded of me was excelling in school. I started staying up nights to study for finals when I was 13.
Hmm, again me neither, I went from my parents house to my x husbands and I home.
B/c this is the way I was also raised in my culture. I would neve look down on others that were not raised this way. We all have something to contribute.
did the whole Western drinking and sex thing -
Hmm funny, I didn't. And b/c I could not come home afterwards and look at my parents in the face. You know b/c they did so much to come to this country and all, and I would not want to disrespect them in that way.
As for me - I fully intend to carry on my family's tradition.
Which traditon would that be, looking down your nose at others? and hiding behind an Indian culture that you portray in your own certain way? Twist around to best suit you and your stepping on others?
My priority post D was not finding an R. It was financially stabilizing myself. Once again - that would be an Indian thing...
An Indian thing? OMG. I think now I see that you say and do these things for the attention you are getting. HOpe those millionare.com guys know about that Indian Thang!
I will reserve these conversations for folks of my own heritage.
Please do, b/c the hurt you display here to people of all walks of life is competely disrespectful
Oh my apologies SG for posting this on your thread and taking away from it's original wonderful posts.
Now, about that lovely peach tree....
AG: I stopped posting to you a long time ago when it became apparent that you were the most unhappy, self centered bitch around. I've listened to years of your whining. You USED to have friends on the bb. Now you latch ont anyone who will post to you and use them till you piss them off (which you have done to everyone). You have no friends in real life or here. You have no life. For such a successful lawyer - you spend a hell of a lot of time writing on a divorce board for a marriage that only lasted 5 years. You've spent longer than that carrying on about it. You put every person here down when in fact - the good people here have much more of a life than you and have worked hard to achieve it. In fact - I think that makes THEM the over achievers - not you!
You put down the Westerners so I guess that includes me - a non- American. But when has anyone here refused to associate with others because of social or culteral differences? I don't know if anyone is black or white or yellow or blue (except Smurfs - LOL) - it doesn't matter. We all came here as a result of a devestation and we have helped each other. Who cares what is going on tday as opposed to yesterday. Things change. People evolve. Rules change. The one thing that hasn't is you as far as moving forward. You still talk about getting a R. You make no serious effort. About adoption. Not much action there these days. You wallow in your own self-pity but turn it back on everyone else. Now to pull your "heritage" card is beyond ridiculous. Do I make excuses for myself because I am Canadian? r does Lissie because she is Cuban? Gosh, no, we are proud of our heritage but surely don't limit ourselves to our "own kind". But then - as I recall - after you were done socializing with some of us at DB get togethers a few years back, suddenly we were all BAD. Horrible people. Not sure when you rewrote history. How many of these people do you stay in touch with today? Most run far and fast from you. Wonder why?
You are caustic and bitter. You love to hear yourself talk. You drone on endlessly about your angst yet tell us how happy you are. You are one sad individual. But why do I write this - you THRIVE on the attention. That is why I hold back as much as I do. And also because you are not worth it.
The people who need serious help the most are usually the last to recognize it. Since you have a lousy R with your family (yes, we remember how you didn't want to help with holiday meals etc) - and have no friends except the Desperate housewives you mock behind their backs - your imaginary friends won't tell you the truth about how nuts you really are.
My sis and I were talking last year after you took shots at both her and myself (hell, we don't believe we're special - you have done this to hundreds of DBers) - you were saying your goodbyes then. How long does it take to leave. You change your mind as often as I change my clothes.
You were leaving when I left to come here. You're still here! You were leaving last year. And the year before. You are still here! Sounds like an addiction to me.
This bb will go on quite happily without you. You do not provide anything positive. And that is what we all need.
Let us go on our merry little ways. And we will talk about our peach trees and our lemonade stands, our families and our new Rs or how to get there. Our dillemmas and our solutions. Why not go back to India since you are obviously out of your element here?
What a waste of board space I have just taken up. But I am appalled at what you have done to SG and the rest of the good people here.
Barb
AG - WOW. (SG - my apologies in advance for the hijack - my last).
I am an Indian-American woman - so keep reading.
The only moments that I am ashamed of my identity is when I have to share it with people that voice uninformed and insular opinions as written in your post. It makes me ashamed, because they are fueled, I feel, by a deep insecurity of being Indian and having no real idea about the country and culture.
I haven't posted in months. The only reason I am, is to protect the image of something I hold dear - my culture and identity. I don't want anyone here or anywhere to think this is what all Indians feel.
I am proud to be Indian-American. I am proud to be a woman. I am proud to be a human being in a respectful world. I always have been. I have never had to 're-connect' because I have always been connected. I speak, read and write the language fluently, travel there often, and have been tied to the culture here my entire life. I have always had my roots, heritage and identity firmly in tact.
I am appalled to read what you wrote - to know those opinions and stance is what you perceive to be part of any culture and identity. When I read your post, there is one thing that is screamingly clear: this person really is struggling to love something that they are just now discovering, because they need to define themselves. I was always taught by my parents, that if you have to flaunt how you are better, or flaunt your identity, then you are not really comfortable with it AT ALL.
Why cling so tightly to a false superiority when you truly are at peace with who you are? Why 're-connect' when you tout a proud heritage? Why was there ever a disconnect? Is it the "C" in ABCD? I, and no one I know, has ever felt this. We are well-adjusted children of immigrants, proud to be Indian AND proud to be American.
It pains me to read your clearly uninformed post and sweeping statements about a country and history that doesn't match your opinions. My parents would consider themselves failed if I came home with such opinions.
You paint the culture to be insular and bigoted. Everything points to the opposite.
Immigrants to this country believed in the American dream, while keeping their culture in tact....making the experience for this country, their children and themselves all the richer. We can ALL speak to that. It is not exclusive to Indians.
My father believed in the American dream. So did Lissie's father. Every parent does, every parent here. They want the best for their kids. To not 'disconnect' but make something new. That dream meant everyone had a chance, no one would be looked down upon. You didn't look down on others. You kept the beauty, values, philosophy of where you came from and it was the rock for your children.
Immigrants have made a big impact in this nation - for hundreds of years - Native cultures have, too. I am proud of that. And, they made it by NOT thinking the way you do.
The best of my culture I learned from my parents and my community. I never heard ANYONE, all extremely successful, voice what you wrote in your post. I never heard narrow-minded talk. What you wrote grates against everything my culture means to me.
Being a child of an immigrant, and Indian-American means having CLASS and DIGNITY. It means not looking down on others. It means not speaking ill of others. It means that true success is learning to adapt. It means being proud of who you are, an sharing that with others. It means learning to see the good in everyone. It means giving everyone a change, because you were. It means reaching across boundaries to make a better country. It means never shaming your heritage and family by representing them in a ill fashion as you did in your post. It means working hard, and even harder, without complaining, and pointing out that you are different. It means working shoulder-to-shoulder with everyone, because they are humans and to be respected at all times. It means, as every child of an immigrant has heard...."Take the Best of Both Worlds". IT means respecting everyone, where they came from, their story, and how they choose to live their life.
You stated that you hated it that people looked down on you, so why do the same to others?
If you look down on educational status and women staying at home, then do you also look down on most women and people in India? A nation where 60-70% of people live in rural villages and women still struggle for educations and status? Do you look down on a woman who cannot read and write, who has to stay home to take care of her children? How is that different than one who chooses to, from any country? Be honest with your view....read about microbanking, women's issues, the caste fight and religious discord. Have you taken a look at modern Indian culture? It has not advanced because of insular thinking, rather by melting, reaching out, adapting, sharing, and being FLUID.
My point is this.
No culture or people can prosper from insular and narrow views of others.
The root of humans, from any corner of the earth, and the essence of this board, is RESPECT. For others and yourself. My identity is not just where I came from, or a country...it is everyone in my life that shapes me....from all cultures, colors, genders and walks of life. I am proud of that.
And, knowing that, you will see that ALL cultures and value systems really are very similar - and I am proud of that, too.
It irritates me that you make me feel this ashamed. It irritates me that you think you speak for everyone. It irritates me that you think that you have to flaunt your story as if it is somehow superior. Trust me, there are people and families that have worked much harder. Respect that. It irritates me that you separate Western and Eastern, Indian and non-Indian - when that is the very opposite of what is reality and what is beautiful about the very thing you proclaim. It irritates me that you think the worlds are different, when you KNOW that the advantages you have in life are BECAUSE of the merging of both worlds.
Always:
What a lovely post!
Very few of us are Native Westerners because as you say 'our fathers sought the American Dream'. For me it was grandparents and they came from England to Canada. But it matters not where they came from or to. It matters that we are all part of the "Melting Pot" that is North America.
I'm so glad you stood up for your heritage. I knew nothing bad of your culture but my view could have been coloured by AG's post.
Barb
Holy Spit Storm, Batman! 
Wow! I have some things to say, but have to run to a meeting. Thank you everyone for engaging in dialog on my thread! I think the most important thing to remember is respect.
IT means respecting everyone, where they came from, their story, and how they choose to live their life.
My original post (that seemed to have started this ruckus) was trying to make the point that we all do the best with the tools that we have. I worked and paid my own way through my BA and my MA. I finished my MA in 17 months w/ a 4.0 while working 35 hours a week and being a single mom. I know how to work hard.
I still find it unfair to blame people for not being at a certain place in their lives due to circumstances beyond their control. Our
economy is hard on women. Our health care system can easily throw a monkey wrench into many people's security. The housing crisis we are currently experiencing has had a devastating effect on my local economy, the tax base, and by extension, the public education system.
When I was growing up, my culture was training me to be a SAHM. I would have been thrilled to have that luxury, because I wanted to do everything possible for my family. Not all SAHMs come from a place of privilege either. Many just hold that as a value and do every thing within their power to provide that for their kids.
This is a big complicated world. Life is unfair. We all do the best with the cards we have been dealt. And we should respect others for doing the same.
SG
Poor SG! lol (( SG))
I have always noticed that SG was always very kind to AG- I guess when emotions flow , it just happens. Hey , you will lock your thread in record time here! lol
AG you got the attention you wanted- negative attention is better then no attention at all , sadly when you are a bitter, lonely sad person, so there ya go.
You have hurt these wonderful people so much they couldn't hold it in, got what you wanted didn't you? Yeah for AG!! She insulted these wonderful women. Shes so smart!
I border line felt sorry for you because reading your posts , its quite clear even to us uneducated, money grabbin, loser SAHM like me , you are a very insecure and lonely person, who has-for lack of a better term a chip on her shoulder. No one here will say they know what its like to be of a different heritage if they are not, but also no one here has ever judged you BASED ON THAT. Like you judge all of us women who do not have careers because of a few of your bunco buddies. Very ignorant and mean spirited.
One thing because I am sure my post is just snubbed by you. I would never advice any woman to not experience the joy of having a child, never. It is by far the most wonderful experience I have had and proud of the job I have done w/ my son. BUT in your case AG, I would seriously advise you to get a lot of help before you bring a child into your home.
You see it doesn't take one of your fancy degrees to raise and nurture a child, it takes love and patience and an open heart. You have so much to learn about life, so so very much.
My original post (that seemed to have started this ruckus)
No actually , sadly this has been bubblin for a longggg time lol
Morning SG:
Singin...
"Respect, just a little bit, Respect, just a little bit" - LOL
That is the best point of all. Respect one another.
My Dad always taught me to treat others as I would like to be treated myself. This is a great way to live.
Enjoy your meeting. You are a wonderful woman and can be very proud of yourself and the life you've made for yourself. I'm a fan - you know that.
Barb
Well there have been a lot of emotions put out here. I have no intention dredging up anymore ill will.
Always,
Thank you for that post. I needed to hear that. My sons best friend is also of Indian heritage. He will be my sons best man when he gets married. His mom (my neighbor) was the first one over to clean up the mess that was me after my ex left and has never showed me anything but friendship and kindness. I would hate to think that she was not that person.
I would have to say that all in all I lived a very charmed life. I certainly can't relate to the hardships that Lissie's dad must have faced in order to make a better life for his family, but I do know that there is no purer form of love. I also don't know what it's like being anything but a caucasion in our culture. But I do have know that what matters is what we give back.
Since we're talking about Father's and struggles, mine had his share as well. My mom died when I was three leaving him with 4 small children ages 6-3months. Relatives wanted to take us but he wouldn't hear of it. This in itself was a great sacrifice because he was also highly educated with a pretty stressful job. I grew up playing and dancing in the halls of Harvard University and under the dome of BLDG#10 at MIT way before it was encouraged to take your child to work. Growing up with housekeepers there were many days when they wouldn't show and he had no other choice. I say this because his life may have been easy monetarily but in so many other ways it was a challenge. The challenging part and not the degrees was the measure of who my dad was as a person. He was a people person who touched everyone he met. My dad had seasons ticket with four other guys for his beloved Celtics, Bruins, Red Sox & Pats. Two of the guys, 2 of whom were Firemen (can't remember what the 4th did). My point is that your pedigree never mattered to him, but who you were as a person did. When he died, I was overwhelmed and humbled by the people who came just to tell us that he was the best person they knew. We received hundreds of letters from colleagues and friends that we didn't know but had been grateful to have had the chance to rub elbows with him. To this day when I read them, I have to stop because of the tears. Someday maybe I'll get through them, but it's been almost 10 years and I still can't.
I have never written any of this on the board before but the point I'm trying to make is that what makes us successful is what we give, and if we don't leave this earth with leaving a legacy of making a mark on someone else's life, then what did we really accomplish?
People will never remember the degrees but they will remember how it made them feel to have been in the presence of true caring and empathy.
I have never written any of this on the board before but the point I'm trying to make is that what makes us successful is what we give, and if we don't leave this earth with leaving a legacy of making a mark on someone else's life, then what did we really accomplish?
People will never remember the degrees but they will remember how it made them feel to have been in the presence of true caring and empathy.
Beth,
Your dad seemed like such a great man.... He is the type of man I truly admire......
My dad was like your dad in many ways..... My dad always looked at people for who they were... Not for their degrees or money.... Who they were as a person....
As a matter of fact, my father did have admiration for those who "made it" on their own...... What they had achieved themselves... He had little respect for those who had things handed to them.......
In the end, my father was very blessed.... He was admired, respected and appreciated for who he was.... The comedian telling a joke at times.... At others, the guy who could fix anything under the hood of someone's car....
I find our society places way too much emphasis on money and not nearly enough on people..........
One more thing relating to my dad.... The greatest compliment I ever received was from my new W.... She said, "If your dad was here, he would be so proud of the man you became and how you handled your last marriage." Talk about humbling.....
NMD
Bethie
I love your dad! and now I know why you are the classy, wonderful, loving woman you are, I remember you calling me early on in this mess and we talked for hours- it was so late for you-
but at the end, i felt, wow, someone really understands and cares
and I remember feeling sooo much better.
Thats before I heard your potty mouth LOL
I think a lot of us here adore our fathers, I know I do, poor guy hes out there now on my balcony painting it cause it needed it, its 96 degrees! There hasnt been a week thats gone by since ex left my 76 yr old dad hasnt been here doing some odd job. He is my hero and I think thats why when our ex did what htey did to us, well , we wondered how it could be.
No one compares to your dad, but we hoped our H would come close.
Ok best go get the old guy some juice! lol
Beth: I LOVE your dad too!
Add me to the list of people here who have wonderful fathers. Mine always put everyone else and their needs ahead of his own. He is accomplished and successful but he lives a humble life. He is adored.
I think of my dad and your dad and so many of the wonderful dads on this earth and wish to God my kids had a dad like that. I'm glad they have a "Papa" who loves them and sets a wonderful example.
Barb
I think a lot of us here adore our fathers, I know I do, poor guy hes out there now on my balcony painting it cause it needed it, its 96 degrees! There hasnt been a week thats gone by since ex left my 76 yr old dad hasnt been here doing some odd job. He is my hero and I think thats why when our ex did what htey did to us, well , we wondered how it could be.
No one compares to your dad, but we hoped our H would come close.
My dad is the same. He has done more work around my house in the year and a half since the X left than my X did in the 11 years he was here. I think I have let all the anger at my X go, but when I see my 72 year old father working his ass off doing things the X wouldn't do, the anger resurfaces.
Maybe there's a common thread here as well. When the first important male in our life loves us unconditionally and has a strong moral code, maybe we just expect we have picked men who are cut from the same cloth. Possibly it's more than the abadonment issue. The other reason we have such a darn hardtime with it is because in our widest dream, no matter how bad things got, we never thought that it would come to this.
Oh BND
I know how you feel!
although my dad loves this stuff lol my parents house is so darn perfect he dosnt have anything to do there lol
but where would be without them?
I have told my ex a few times , I am thankful that Ry has his grandad ( and uncles) to look up to, sadly my ex even agrees! His dad was a stand up man as well.
Bethie you are so right!
And lest not forget the terrific men on this board!! AWESOME DADS!
Maybe there's a common thread here as well. When the first important male in our life loves us unconditionally and has a strong moral code, maybe we just expect we have picked men who are cut from the same cloth. Possibly it's more than the abadonment issue. The other reason we have such a darn hardtime with it is because in our widest dream, no matter how bad things got, we never thought that it would come to this.
That's me. My dad loved me unconditionally, it just never occurred to me my H wouldn't do the same. I still have trouble coming to terms with the conditional nature of my H's love; or, apparently conditional. His affection fluctuates directly with my weight, but also with his depression. Some days, it's hard for me to tell if he's just depressed - in which case I should stay by his side and support him - or if he's right and
I'mthe cause of his problems because I'm not XY or Z. (Btw, although I am about 40 lbs overweight right now, he also thought I was too fat when I was a bony 5'6" 125 lbs., so I DO know he has issues of his own.)
Ellie
Hi, well I'll chime in for a while. SG, you sound really good and that peach tree story is the best. Just an allegory of how things grow and change for the better when we do not even know it's happening around us until we are able to see. Awesome progress. Me too although I do not post much.
The whole subject of stay at home moms has me walking down memory lane a bit. I was not one, and I didn't have kids. Both I and the x were committed to our work/jobs. I would have been willing to step back from that a bit had he had just one iota been willing to pay attention to home but he never would do that. Plus I was of the mind that I never wanted to have a man support me, I had to make my own way in the world, that was me and I was not normal with that, it was something I learned myself as I saw my mother not have difficulty with my father but she was on her own raising us. I had always worked, got married at 30 years old, and was in a career by then.
But I changed all that just before the X left me! I left my job and career in preparation for a new phase of our life together. The very moment I gave myself up to his protection and safety he left me.
I was lucky enough to end up with resources that I had built over time. But when the divorce was proceeding I was afraid enough to get myself a tent, a lantern, a sleeping bag in case I ended up homeless. It could happen to any of us as you well know. I am so proud of you and me and all the people who have come through this together.
It's pouring rain now, thunder and lightening so off I go. You take care, and remember every day is a journey in itself in this life. Wonder
Hi Goddess,
I read what you said about alimony being out of the question in Cali. Do you think that really it depends on whose courtroom and the judges in your circuit as to how this shakes out?
I know that in Cali unlike in most states 10 years is considered a longterm marriage. I have a guy friend that lives in southern California. He was married for 20 years, no kids, and a wife who definitely had at least 1 master's degree. She was the one who walked away. Even though she had the education the only job she had was teaching piano lessons, so there wasn't much money coming in from that. When they went for the divorce she had to go to have a career evaluation in order to put a dollar amount on her earning potential. Even with that, when all was said and done, he left the courthouse owing her $3200.00 a month until the first of the year when it would be reduced to $2800.00 (remember they never had any kids)but he was ordered to maintain her lifestyle. Actually that wasn't the end of it. He was also ordered to also pay her 28% of all quarterly bonuses until the $2800.00 kicked in, and then the bonus money would adjust to 38%. Also she was entitled to an automatic percentage of any raises that he received. Bonus money alone is as much as some people receive for the year in maintenance. How does that make you feel?
Oh wait it doesn't end there. Are you ready for this? I asked him how long he would be expected to pay this and the order reads "until she should marry", not when he retires. For that he would have to take her back to court and get it reviewed or just keep paying. I keep telling him it's the gift that keeps on giving!
Maybe there's a common thread here as well. When the first important male in our life loves us unconditionally and has a strong moral code, maybe we just expect we have picked men who are cut from the same cloth. Possibly it's more than the abadonment issue. The other reason we have such a darn hardtime with it is because in our widest dream, no matter how bad things got, we never thought that it would come to this.
That's me. My dad loved me unconditionally, it just never occurred to me my H wouldn't do the same. I still have trouble coming to terms with the conditional nature of my H's love; or, apparently conditional. His affection fluctuates directly with my weight, but also with his depression. Some days, it's hard for me to tell if he's just depressed - in which case I should stay by his side and support him - or if he's right and
I'mthe cause of his problems because I'm not XY or Z. (Btw, although I am about 40 lbs overweight right now, he also thought I was too fat when I was a bony 5'6" 125 lbs., so I DO know he has issues of his own.)
Ellie
Oh Ellie,
If only we could have known then what we now sadly understand. Still I don't think we would have fully understood and probably thought it might change over time.
But like you said, "these are his issues"! Wow I think we're finally growing up!
Hi Bethie,
Thanks for writing. I remember all too well that you were the first person to post on my very first thread in MLC...back in the day.
As far as alimony goes it depends on the situation. I chose to take ownership of the house instead. This is what made the most sense to me (and still does).
What I meant was that in CA the tendency is to get the "dependent" spouse OFF support as soon as possible. The goal is for each to be independent of the other. That works for me because I wanted to be as free as possible of my X as soon as possible. My strategy has worked well in many ways because I have so little dealings with him it is easy to move on.
Also, my kids were over 18 when we "actually" divorced. So no CS either. This also was my choice. In our agreement he agreed to help with college, and I am happy to say he has kept up his end of that particular bargain.
I do know of people who get alimony. One GF was married 30 years and she gets continuous support. But that is what the 2 of them agreed on. It just wasn't going to happen in my sit. in a way that I could live with. I wanted it to be done when it was done.
Hope that helps!
Goddess
About FathersWell my own dad was also the best dad in the world!
The other problem with having such a great dad was that he was totally devoted and loyal to my mom, and I was left with the false illusion that my own marriage was going to be the same way.
Oh well!
Hi, well I'll chime in for a while. SG, you sound really good and that peach tree story is the best. Just an allegory of how things grow and change for the better when we do not even know it's happening around us until we are able to see. Awesome progress.
Hi Wonder!
Thanks for noticing the whole point of my story! LOL!
I am glad things are going well for you also. Please give us an update!
SG
Gotcha!
I think I got a pretty good deal, but my alimony isn't forever, just until "I marry or his retirement". It just floored me that there were never any kids and she never worked outside the home, but still you think of it as a no-brainer. Guess I was wrong again! Story of my life!
I haven't read all this but SG what do you mean in CA you do not get alimony? You mean because you made equal to your ex?
I live in CA , you know that lol
I was granted, oh this is gonna make some curdle, but hey not my decision alimony for life OR till I remarry, live with or ever end up making equal to my ex. Won't happen, as he makes significant. We were married 18 yrs and I didnt make any where comparable to what he did as he had been at his career 20 plus years.
Always told ex,I wouldnt want him to pay that long and it wasnt my intention and would rather not. Even when I worked 40 hrs I still rec'd it as it wasn't comp. to his wage.
AT first when ex heard he of course said, if I knew this i wouldnt of left ya ( jackass) I said Yea well I would of left YOU! lol I know, lame response but i was hurt and angry.
So just wondered what you meant.
Karen
I think in your case, because you were basically a full time SAHM you were able to get that deal. Also, (in addition to the reasons stated in my answer to Beth) at the time of our negotiations I had just landed a big time corporate job, and my salary was equal to Xs. So there you go!
SG
PS
Also in my situation we mediated, which saved a ton of money. Our agreement is what we both agreed to.
If I had gone the adversarial lawyer route I might have ended up with a better deal...but doubtful!
As it was, the whole D cost us less than $1000.
SG
Ohhhh sorry, spoke too fast SG Ok I get it!
I told ex also didnt like, which I really don't being somewhat dependent on him, he said he realizes the alimony goes to pay the mort. on my way too high priced CA house, so he said he was ok w/ it, and he gets a chunk of change on this house when I sell, EVEN tho he walked away and let it go into foreclosure saying he didnt care, he wanted to be free, free , free as a bird! ( again, thank God for parents help!)
I do not get your friend tho B, I really do not feel WA should be entitled at all, but JMHO, and in the decree I would get alimony only until K retires.
WOW....
I went the lawyer route and mine was in the high thirty's. Of course it dragged on for over 2 years and that's torcher in itself!
yes, sorry SG, jumped the gun.
Good for you on the mediation!
I am still paying off my L! ;oP
K, California like so many other no fault states, doesn't care who did what. I'm sure the judges love it since it saves them from sitting there and listening to the same story they heard the day before and the day before that...etc.
I agree though, when someone makes a choice to end a marriage, then they should be honorable enough to make and easy and graceful exit. But hey, we're talkin' NUTBAGS here ya know?
I'd like to chime in on the mediated divorce. I went that route. It was the ONLY way I had a hope of keeping the house based on the fact that Ryan had partial ownership in it. According to the law - Chuck was entitled to half and would have taken it. In mediation we worked out more like a 1/3 deal.
As far as costs, mine would have been app $50,000! Mediation with an alien was PAINFUL. I cried nearly every time and he was cold, calcualting and even threw in some meanness. But I did it for $14,000 and I'd far rather use that to pay for my kids' education and things like retaining walls and cottage decor than paying it to my lawyer and the courts.
Anyone who hasn't divorced yet should consider this option. In Canada we call it "Collateral Divorce". It was a good idea.
Barb
Hi Karen:
and he gets a chunk of change on this house when I sell,
My H was pushing for that, even tho the down payment was a gift from my parents. You may recall that in the beginning he said some crazy things like "I will continue to pay as long as there isn't another man in the house" even tho he had been w/ OGIRL for something like 4 years at that point!
I fought for sole ownership and that is what I got!
Barb,
I remember how hard mediation was for you. I think in your sit anything would have been hard!
We took so dang long to get through anything that it helped the process in a way. But it was me leading that particular dance every step of the way. I made the appointments, filled out the paperwork, filed, etc. It was painful, but at least it is over now, and if I hadn't I might still be married to that guy! LOL!
SG
Blessings!Now that things have calmed down a bit...
<ahem>Got a new contract job that is going to be about 10 hours a week, at a good rate, and will allow me to grow my skills in an area that I need to grow in!
Will be getting some brand new, expensive, software for free as part of that job!
Have a promising interview today!
Met a cute guy from e-harmony yesterday!
Argo did really well in Rally training on Wednesday. The trainer says we will earn our RN in no time!
AND!!!!! My very best friend in the whole world is coming to visit me in a few days! YAYYYYYYY!
Have a great Friday my friends and have a great weekend!
SG
Yeah SG!!
Life is good yes?
All sounds like positive things in your life!
Good luck on your interview!
I am getting really discouraged! One of the places I have sent in at least 3 resumes to, has just informed me they are laying off over 400 employees and are putting hiring on freeze. uggh
Oh well, back to the drawing board!
So what about FG? anyting going on w/him??
Met a cute guy from e-harmony yesterday!
SG,
That is funny....
The last girl I met from an "unnamed" web site...
Got out of her car....... Walked up to me and said, "You're really cute!" I guess she really ended up liking me.....
We were married a couple months later......
I wish you all the best in your dating adventures........
Take Care,
NMD
Hey SG:
Nice to be back to Peach Tree.
Hope everything goes well with your interview today. Be sure to let us know.
And wishing you the best with your new E Harmony guy. Details please...
Have a great day! TGIF!
Barb
LOL A FREEZE ON HIRING
durrrr
blonde, tired and , well blonde!
Hey SG,
Great post, so many good things happening! Of course, the one I want to hear about is the interview? No. The contract? No. Your friend's visit? No. THE DATE! Details woman, details, LOL!
Loved how your thread started and love the name. It was cool to read the recap of how you got to this point and how you are accepting it for what it is, seeking to make the best of your situation.
There are so many great people, from varied backgrounds around this board, different stories, similar pain and a common desire to make the best of their situations, to help, encourage and support others make the best possible lives for themselves and their loved ones. That is what is great about this board, especially this forum.
You continue to inspire me and others around here so we celebrate your successes with you and support you during the temporary set backs.
Blessings to you, hope your fledgling R with FG blossoms.
Happy Saturday, Friends!
Well it feels like I am moving into another "UP" phase...After having so much time to contemplate my navel, all of a sudden I am busy!
The interview went quite well. Unfortunately the job was about an hour away, and they couldn't offer me much. Sigh. But I am feeling much better about work and money so "yay".
Now about that date...
We met at a coffee shop. We talked...(or rather he did) for about 1 and a half hours. He is very attractive, has piercing blue eyes and a nice smile. We spent a LOT of time talking about his history, which is rather "colorful". He is a native Canadian, and apparently was in the headlines a while back. Barb, I will be writing you offlist to see if you have any insight.
I enjoyed talking with him..but it was all about him. He found out that I edit, and he then sent me his 200 page manuscript to me via e-mail so that I could "take a look at it" No mention of getting together next time or a second date. Hmmmm
However, life is interesting. Last night my very good girlfriend called me and asked me to join a group at a bar. The group was partly her extended family, partly our friends, and partly some visitors from San Diego who are here until December working on a project. So I joined them. I think there were about 10 of us at a long table. At my end were myself, my girlfriend, another girlfriend and one of the SD guys. At one point the other 2 girls got up and left the table and I started talking with the guy. Turns out we have a lot in common. I gave him my card, and he gave me his, and we are getting together on Sunday! Cute guy, too!
<tee hee>
So, I will keep you posted...
SG
SG
Wooot hooot!
You and your GAL is great to read!
Sounds good. I have been out w/ men like your date, Its nice they at least talk BUT zzzzzzzzzzz, maybe he was nervous, maybe he feels uncofortable with pregnant pauses lol
So are you going to go over his manuscript?
Cant wait to hear about the new guy, he sounds good!
Have a great weekend !!
Contemplating your navel??? You considering taking up belly dancing???? LOL!
So, that's the meaning of "double date". 2 guys in one night. Well, it would be hard for a guy to do all the talking if I was there - he'd find that difficult! But I'd say it is a bit unusual. Is he that talkative on the phone? Most guys REALLY don't like the phone.
And nice that you met someone else you get on well with too. Gives you someone to compare to.
Well, SG, it does sound like you are in the driver's seat. You are the poster girl for GAL!
Barb
Ok so since these things happen in threes, who's the third lucky guy?
Happy Friday Friends...
Well, I have been busy busy busy, which is good. Away from the board for a while, found myself all the way on page 3!
My very best-est friend in the whole world was here this week and she helped my organize/redecorate my home office, which used to be S's room. It is a very small space and I just was having a hard time figuring out where to put everything so that it is functional. MUCH much better now!
Seems like there has been a lot of activity on the board in my absence. Not sure what it is/was all about, tho...I think there are a couple of issues that I can address...
One: for the children. My kids were older when the marriage split up. They were old enough to understand the underlying issues that broke us apart. In my case it was being married to a man who was in many ways a good father, but his issues with long time (15+ years) infidelity and addiction make him a poor spouse. Our dynamic had developed into a very un-healthy one over the years, but in any case I DBed like a trooper, gave it my all, gave him many "chances" and "sat on the curb" like so many of us here. I threw myself into GAL and have been working HARD for these past 7 years (when I found out about one affair) to heal and re-discover my self. I have cordial relations w/ ex. However, I do much much better if I don't have to see him or deal with him in person. The kids have their relationship w/ him and just, last weekend took a trip with him to the Midwest to visit his side of the family. I have to say, the situation would be much different if the kids were younger. They are 20 and 22 now.
Two: next relationship. Don't know about that one. Did have the short R w/CG. That taught me a lot about myself, as well as a lot to look out for. This dating is pretty interesting, but time consuming! I would like a guy somewhere in the middle of CG and the last date I had w/ the ex-Moonie. Someone who is aware of themselves and somewhat introspective and can take responsibility for their own happiness and part of the relationship...YET...does not get SO self-involved that they forget about me.
Not even sure at this point if I WANT to get married. As I have said before, when I married it was to create a family. I have my kids and that part of life is over. I may eventually meet someone who rocks my world so much and I rock his that marriage would be the only option...but at this point in time I am not that interested.
Speaking of self-involved...
I am going to write about something I have not addressed before on the board, but I know others have had experience with this so here goes.
I have been struggling with depression on and off my whole life. I know there are things I can do to help...and exercise/yoga help tremendously as do other things like being social, and therapy. However this summer it actually has hit me harder than ever before so I am going to try ADs. I will be writing about this to get feedback which should help me monitor the situation.
I am excited that this may give me the boost I need but at the same time I am a little nervous about side-effects. Not sure when I will actually start, but here is a little heads up.
I hope everyone has a GREAT Friday and GREAT weekend!
SG
I was on celexa for around 7 years
it saved my life
and
after two hospitalizations and 7 years on ADS I was convinced it was for forever
but I was starting to go off them when LSS left!!! niiiiiiiiiiiiiice
i stayed to my course of weening off and have been doing great these last two years
I have to talk myself down sometimes but therapy gave me some great tools
i think part of the reason we suffer from depression is because we believe we are worth what the people who we feel are most important in our lives treat us
we are better than their treatment
(and some of us are just missing that chemical in our brain)
Hey SG
Happy Friday!
I have cordial relations w/ ex. However, I do much much better if I don't have to see him or deal with him in person. The kids have their relationship w/ him
This is me exactly, it is what it is and it just works that way, I had to learn also just recently I have to let S and his dad have their R without mom butting in, old habits are hard to break tho!
I think a lot of us here on the board have had issues w/ Depression and AD , have you taken them before?
You know of course all the facts, how diff ones work best for others. I took them for a few years when ex left, it was more tho because most of my adult life I had had panic attacks and they were never addressed by my dr. No idea why, maybe should of pushed it more, so when Ex left my Dr. said lets try them.
They def took the edge off but like I said mine were more for anxiety then dep. although it is usually a combo med.
Now have a scrip for a anxiety med to be taken as needed, have had it 2 months never touched it. Never sure if they are needed so they sit there lol
I am sure your Dr. will talk to you at length and these great people will give you their input. There are a lot of products out there that can help
I do hope if you do try them they will work for you.
((( SG ))) have a fantastic weekend!
oh btw if your collecting data lol
My first AD were effexor XR, WORKED GREAT! but for insurance reasons switched to Lepexor (sp?) not as great for me.
Again, I hear some people try a few before they find one that is right for them.
Good Luck SG
Did have the short R w/CG. That taught me a lot about myself, as well as a lot to look out for. This dating is pretty interesting, but time consuming!
LOL! feel like I could have written that. Even my short R was with a "CG" LOL (squared- wish we could add exponential figures)
I also have some thoughts about the meds but would like to share them off line. (Karen, Bethie, Qoe and BarbieDoll have my email address, write me if you can connect with them)
(Karen, Bethie, Qoe and BarbieDoll have my email address,
slut C2!
kidding
I was on celexa for around 7 years
it saved my life
and
after two hospitalizations and 7 years on ADS I was convinced it was for forever...
Yeah, I don't want it to be forever. Just feel very down sometimes and I have had a few days where if it weren't for the wonder puppy I wouldn't have gotten off the couch.
I used to say Yoga saved my life. It was true!
(figgy)
(good luck w/ all your stuff)
SG
Again, I hear some people try a few before they find one that is right for them.
Good Luck SG
Thanks Karen, that is what I hear as well...
(Karen, Bethie, Qoe and BarbieDoll have my email address,
slut C2!
kidding
Oh, THEM! LOL!
They have my addy as well. Somebody hook us up!
SG
I am excited that this may give me the boost I need but at the same time I am a little nervous about side-effects. Not sure when I will actually start, but here is a little heads up.
Aww well I hope the first one works just great for you.
Hope you have a great weekend.
SG
My new dr. the one that didnt put me on AD asked when I went in the first time why I was still on them? almost 5 yrs.
ummm, hate to say it, I guess habit? just kept on getting them. He asked when my h had "left" and how grief and death sometimes does have a way of overwhelming us, Had to correct him that my H did not die but walked away! lol
anyway he weaned me off them, didnt take long and said try to do without them if you really feel you need them, let me know.
I havent, it is nice to know that if I did tho, there would be no problem.
They have my addy as well. Somebody hook us up!
Maybe that's how simple it is out there in the dating world, eh?
SG:
My post to you was inexcusable, hurtful and wrong. I lashed out at you in reaction to my own gunk. I am sorry. I hope you accept my apology and understand if you do not.
I have always respected you as one of the wisest posters on this BB. My post was not about you - it was all about me.
take care,
AG
Oh Hi, AG!
Thanks for the apology. I just chalked it up to you working too hard. That balance is a tricky thing to find and maintain. No hard feelings at all. I also know that with online communication things tend to get mis-read and distorted because we are missing the visual component of face-to-face communication. I hope all is going well for you.
SG, I am on Effexor and it seems to help. I know that I don't feel well when I forget to take it (it isn't something to stop cold-turkey).
Happy Thursday friends!
I just got back from a short vacation on the North Coast...Cool, foggy, beachy and wonderful!
Rented a cabin with a girlfriend. Took the wonder puppy along, and he did about 95 %
GREAT! We won't talk about that other 5% tho...
In a bit I see my doc about the ADs. I admit I am not a typical down in the dumps depressive. I do feel worn out from 5 years of working VERY HARD on myself, my finances, my education and my family (not necessarily in that order) and when things converge all at the same time, it is overwhelming. It is sometimes hard to muster the energy needed to just get the basics done! So we shall see and I will keep you all posted, since I think this is something that will interest other DBers.
Off to shower and get the day going!
Good Luck SG!
I would be interested in hearing.
Have a nice weekend!
Hi SG:
Thank you for accepting my apology. You have no idea how much it means to me.
In a bit I see my doc about the ADs. I admit I am not a typical down in the dumps depressive. I do feel worn out from 5 years of working VERY HARD on myself, my finances, my education and my family (not necessarily in that order) and when things converge all at the same time, it is overwhelming. It is sometimes hard to muster the energy needed to just get the basics done!
I have been feeling the exact same way lately and I can't figure it out. I have "survived" the D - and while there are normal ups and downs in my life I am okay.
BUT emotionally I am feeling irritable, cranky, reactive, and depressed - and am having a tough time doing very simple things. I feel like there is a void in my life - but I can't figure out how to fill it...
Okay - here it comes - so hard for me to admit... I think I need someone to take care of me for awhile... I just want to drop everything for a little while and let someone else carry things for awhile...
I don't know, please let me know if you figure this one out. It really has caught me off guard.
take care,
AG
SG welcome back (by the way, you got mail)
Glad you had a swell time with your girlfriend, it is good to get away, is it not?
Also glad to hear puppy was 95% good. I have a dog that is that "5%" 50% of the time, he "marks" everything he can, when ever he can. Out door dog but still a major pain in the plants.
Hi C2H!
Thanks for the concerned note. All I will say here is that in addition to the many experiences that are put in our paths, we are also given free will and a set of gifts and talents to do use or not use to help us along our way.
Happy Friday Friends!It is very interesting to me the way people react to me telling them I am trying ADs. I have only told 4 "real life" people...and the support is split down the middle. The 2 who have known me the longest, my sister and my BFF are very supportive. Sis says "good for you for taking care of yourself" and BFF says " You do not have the energy and full-of-life-ness you once had and should have. All this crap that has gone on way too long has worn you down way too much, and you need to use whatever you can find to help you. The docs just better find something useful quickly!"
My other 2 VGFs were quite the opposite. One said that if I got too hyper "she would hit me"
and the other said that I have been able to dig myself out in the past and I should be able to now, as well.
It is true that depression is something I have struggled with my whole life. It runs in my family, tho with Mom there is a strong anxiety component and not sure about my sisters.
This is not something I am doing lightly. I exercise, have a great "real life" support network of friends and the BB here. I do yoga. I journal. I have been in therapy for 5 years! I feel like I have made a concerted effort to get back on track and feel better.
My doctor asked me a few questions and I filled out one of those depression questionnaires. I came out as moderately depressed. Part of the problem is that some people think that you are only depressed if you are sobbing all day long sitting among a pile of trash and dirty laundry. Well, I haven't been that bad...but I am definitely on the scale.
(Related to this is a book called
"Feeling Good" that has some self-tests to gauge where you might be on the scale, as well as some coping techniques)
I discussed pros and cons w/ my doc. One side effect is decreased libido, which is actually OK for me now, since I am not in a relationship! She recommended Zoloft which is for depression without anxiety. I picked up my supply and will start today. I was told not to drink while on this, so I wanted to wait until today...because drinking was on the agenda for last night due to a certain someone turning
(Let's just say...) 30...again!
Also recommended to take in the morning since it could interfere with my sleep. I am not so busy the next 3 weeks, so I will be able to monitor my progress.
So off to get the day going...finished my coffee and I should walk the wonder pup.
Oh, btw C2H...marking isn't being
Naughty...it's being
Male!
S_G,
Thanks for sharing that. I think the people that are not so positive, just don't really understand depression and the treatments. Or they also can be the type of persons that don't even believe in depression. I got that in the past. Or they are just plain scared when a friend is hurting and they don't know how to help.
Anyhow, I am glad you went to the doctor and are looking after yourself.
Good for you.
Did I read that right? Did someoneturn 30 yesterday? Well then I just want to wish someonea very Happy belated birthday!.....and many more!
Love,
bethie
Was it your birthday S_G? I am not as swift as Bethie, obviously!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
Hiya SG!
I must've missed that too! WOW - you're a whole year older than my firstborn!
Happy happy birthday.
As for the ADs - this is a very personal decision. I most certainly understand depression. I have not suffered much from it but Chuck sure did. He was on ADs and did not do well on them. Someone else close to me has been on them for far far too long and I believe is afraid to try weaning herself off of them. Other friends have used them with much success. If it were me - I'd ask someone I trust who is close to me to help me keep an eye on myself if you know what I mean and trust that person if they tell you that a change is in order.
Besides all that - how is the Peach tree? I LOVE peaches. They don't grow in many places in my country but they do in Niagara! My friend and I took her dog for a walk in a peach orchard last week and managed to salvage some that had been knocked off in a storm. Perfect peaches, but they were on the ground and would have rotted. We put a stop to that.
Hope it all goes well and you can pull yourself through this depression and move forward to brighter days.
Thinking of you.
Love Barb
The doc was right on with taking it in the morning. Also, don't forget a dose--you will feel lightheaded and generally icky. It did not make me hyper at all. I also didn't see a decrease in libido (unfortunately for me! since I'm not in a R) It intensifies the effects of alcohol.
If it was your birthday, I hope you had a happy one
Good luck to you, SG and a very, very happy birthday!!!
Zoloft was one of the first ADs I tried and it didn't work very well for me. Don't get discouraged if you don't feel better immediately. It actually takes about 3 weeks, I think. Just keep trying them until you find one that works. I ended up on Lexapro and it was great.
Tee Hee!
Thanks everybody!
My girlfriends and I had a small get-together and we went downtown and watched the Thursday night street performers do fire-dancing!
http://www.fire-dancing.com/ Very cool, and it involves whips, chains, balls and hoops!
(Keep your minds out of the gutter!)
SG
I am not sure if my mind is ever out of the gutter!
Glad you had a good time.
ADs Day One...
Well, I took my first pill yesterday morning and co-incidentally had an amazingly productive day. Got multiple little things crossed off the list and ran into some old friends I haven't seen in ages.
Stayed up a little late to watch the Olympics, went to bed around 11 planning to get up around 7 because I had a busy Saturday morning planned...
Woke up at 4 AM and couldn't get back to sleep. Took a hot bath at 6 and slept until 8. This meant I skipped yoga this morning, but I did run into a girlfriend downtown and we had breakfast together.
I used to get insomnia all the time, but hadn't had it in a while. I hope this isn't a side effect...just reporting the facts.
My mood has been pretty good, don't feel like I can chalk it up to the ADs at this point, but to more positive things happening in my life and work.
That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!
SG
SG, I think everything helps and if part of your life that is going well affects the other parts, then yay you!
Hope the insomnia was just a one off!
Thanks Trip!
I slept like a baby last night and was up ready to greet the day at 6:30 am...which is a tad early for a Sunday, but in my ideal world I just get up at the same time every day (more or less)
Today I drive to that City by the Bay to visit my wonderful first born child, DS.
Poor guy is having a spate of bad luck. It has been hard for him to find housing. He had a great deal for his first year, then moved into a shared house that I thought was great...but alas the lease-holder decided it wasn't working out, and now DS is looking for someplace to live. Couch surfing with his stuff in storage in the meantime. I hope he finds something soon, since fall semester starts for him Aug. 13.
So hopefully I can drive him around to look at places...
Then, I got a fantastic work opportunity that will be a perfect compliment to the other work I do, and the schedule will dovetail with my other schedules as well. The bad thing is that I was planning to visit DD on Monday, but I have to get this project done. I feel very bad because she was hoping I could help her rearrange her space before her new roommates move in. Sheesh!
These kids and their independence!
Well, need to give the wonder puppy a good hour of excercise this morning before I take off. I am leaving him here...so that there will be room for S and S's GF in the car!
Have a great Sunday all.
SG
Glad to see you slept well. At least you woke up on a good not although it was early. I find a good rest helps with my state of mind. That and waking up to the sun!
Cool about the work opportunity.
What a pinch for your son but I am sure you guys will find something for him.
Have a good time.
I am not as swift as Bethie, obviously!
Well, I'm very
swift soooo
HAPPY BIRTHDAY SG!!!!!!!!!
Gosh, I just realized it too!!!
Happy Birthday, SG and I'm so glad your life is moving in a positive direction. Have fun with DS!!!
Hi SG:
Hope you had a good visit with your son and that he finds a nice place to live very soon. He really is a great guy! Sorry you won't get to see your DD tommorrow.
It will be a couple of weeks before you know the full effects of your ADs. I've never been on them but Chuck and Brandon both have been. I'm glad you got a good night's sleep last night. They both slept better with them than without them but of course they're different for everyone.
Have a good week!
Barb
Hi Barb, Queenie and Karen!Thanks for the BD wishes. This has really been "birthday month" so far...between my BFF coming for a visit and the vacation at the beach...it has been pretty good.
Happy Monday Friends!Went to visit the boy yesterday. He lives in the East Bay for now, and his school, work, and where he wants to live are all in San Francisco. We drove over there and had lunch and tried to run a few errands but were thwarted by it being Sunday. But we did retrieve some things out of his storage locker for him to have.
On the way back to the East Bay, going over the
Bay Bridge I heard a loud "POP" sound, then "wubba-wubba-wubba-wubba"...yep! a BLOW OUT on the bridge!
The blinkers came on and I drove slowly to where I could pull off, which was a bus lane at the end of the bridge. DS helped me change the tire and the cop who eventually showed up thanked me for getting off the bridge to do so. By the way, are they hiring cops right out of High School these days? This guy looked YOUNG!
I was a little shaken up. I take excellent care of my tires and buy good ones and get them rotated at the proper intervals, etc. It seemed like a sidewall blowout. To the tire store today to get my replacement!
Had another good night of sleep and woke up ready to go at 6:30 ay em. Gonna take the wonder puppy for a nice run and then I will be busy today working on 2 projects.
Have a good one!
SG
Just pulling up this thread for Soup to read and any others who might have missed it.
Hope you are doing well SG. Time to start a new thread soon.
Love ya,
Barb
Hi SG:
Blaming SAHMs for not having career success while being thrust into it at midlife is the same as blaming the victim of a crime. I for one have done the best I possibly could have done with my life and circumstances. I fully expected to be making a decent salary at this point, but it is not happening.
As I am re-connecting with my Indian heritage, my Indian values are resonating in my posts. As I posted to FLTC, the values associated with my heritage have no place on this BB. Part of why I am leaving the BB. I have decided that socializing with people of my own heritage is a better fit for me.
That whole integrated AG was much nicer wasn't it? Well - after I am gone - you will have a nice BB with very nice uniform Western values again.
Since I am getting a little tired of blending in - how about I thrust the entire history of my Indian family right at you.
My mother had 9 brothers and sisters. All of them were required to earn at least a masters before they got M in a field that enabled them to earn a living. Most of them have Ph.D's. I think two of them are Fulbright scholars. This is a group generation that ranges in age from 65-85. Most of them came here and went to Ivy Leagues schools here. Education is everything. We save money for education first - everything else is a lesser priority. And they achieved this in British India - colonial rule does make things a little more difficult.
I know the West looks down on and mocks our system of arranged M's. However - it works for many in my culture. All of the men M women with the education and ability to earn a living that can sustain a family before they got M. My uncle wanted to M someone that would be a stay at home wife - not some woman that would go to school and challenge him too much. My grandmother told him - he would have to find his own W if those were his standards. My mother slacked off while working on her Masters - my grandfather pulled her aside and told her that if she thought he would arrange her M so she could get out of finishing her degree - it was not going to happen.
My generation - 18 cousins on my mother's side - all of us have a minimum of a masters. Many of us are at least engineers - that includes 3 women. All the men in our family M women that are professionals and have the ability to earn a living on par with their H's.
My father grew up in Bangladesh and his family lost everything during the British partion of India. He had 8 siblings. That interfered with the education thing b/c they left everything behind as they ran for their lives. My father - could probably write a book about the lengths he went to come to this country to get an education. He has a Ph.d in civil engineering.
My father paid for every single one of my cousins on my father's side of the family to go to college in India. I have 18 paternal first cousins - yes very symmetrical. They all have a minimum of a masters - both men and women b/c once again we are required to go to school for an eduction to learn something that we can use to earn a living. All of them are M to P's with comparable income capacity.
When I was growing up - I was not allowed to date. We were never out of the house past 6 pm - yes that is right 6 pm until I left for college. I was not required to do chores. The only thing my family demanded of me was excelling in school. I started staying up nights to study for finals when I was 13. I partied and had fun - did the whole Western drinking and sex thing - but I never ever lost sight of my primary goal.
As for me - I fully intend to carry on my family's tradition. My priority post D was not finding an R. It was financially stabilizing myself. Once again - that would be an Indian thing...
And while in our social gatherings - we do not go on endlessly about boobs and nuts. If you ever decide to go to India - you will see huge billboards everywhere promoting safe sex through condom use.
I will reserve these conversations for folks of my own heritage.
Thank you for your post. It validated my decision to limit my non-Indian social circle to overachievers only.
Regards,
AG
To those who complained.
This is not a hate post, it is an explanation post. From someone who has felt a lot of hate herself. I will not be deleting it.
But I see the offense:
But ....there is a negative feeling in it...something that is 'confrontational' , and AG...you COULD communicate this without offending....
As I posted to FLTC, the values associated with my heritage have no place on this BB. Part of why I am leaving the BB. I have decided that socializing with people of my own heritage is a better fit for me.
That whole integrated AG was much nicer wasn't it? Well - after I am gone - you will have a nice BB with very nice uniform Western values again.
This is confrontational.
did the whole Western drinking and sex thing This feels like an insult.
My priority post D was not finding an R. It was financially stabilizing myself. Once again - that would be an Indian thing...
This feels like you're setting it aside, and others might not understand if they are not Indian....which in fact isn't true....and is REALLY COMMON among SAHMs who get divorced. It should UNITE you.
And while in our social gatherings - we do not go on endlessly about boobs and nuts. If you ever decide to go to India - you will see huge billboards everywhere promoting safe sex through condom use.
That implies we do go on endlessly about boobs and nuts. Which isn't really in my world at all. This is offensive.
It validated my decision to limit my non-Indian social circle to overachievers only.
It makes folks wonder why you stay.