Growing pains 4 - DivorceBusting.com

Locked out again. I've gotta be winning the lock out race by now!
Well, nothing new except my football team won.

and that's a good thing.
Maybe the Bible class will be in the same catagory. Give it a try.
You never know Who maybe throwing you a touchdown pass.

Hi WII!
Looks like life keeps moving along. $\:\)$ I'll take a non-alcoholic tequila sunrise, thanks!

NH

One of the major lessons I have learned through this, and a key to surviving, is that when you don't feel like it, do it anyway! Last night I was tired and not too enthusiastic but I went and got to know someone new, got to know one of my Pastor's a little better, my ego was stroked when pastor told me the women of the church were "scoping" me out, and I got an invite to another weekly event. Now, if I had of sat at home waiting for the football game to start, which is what I wanted to do, I would have missed all those things. They're small things but they add up and are essential to staying sane through all this. So, new Survivors get out there and let it happen, the good stuff is there but we have to do our part to make it happen. God wants to work with us, but he won't do it all for us!
Thanks for checking in GB and NH.

Great advice, wii!

Nothing is going to happen by sitting on one's butt!

Originally Posted By: Trip

Great advice, wii!

Nothing is going to happen by sitting on one's butt!

Not true, Trip! You can get a sore ass, get fat, carpal tunnel syndrome from overuse of the remote, hurt yourself crushing beer cans on your head...lots can happen

Personal experience talking, wii? $;\)$

wii, great advice. I think part of it was that life was happening all around us for so long--there was someone right there to motivate us to DO something. Now, when we have the times that are just us, there is no certainties of who will be going along for the ride, so we sit. There are so many unknowns that we aren't used to looking forward to and experiencing.

First of all, I love the name "whatitis". I'm learning to accept what it is and deal.

Second, the quote - LET GO OR BE DRAGGED! Love it! Is it an original? Wow, that's my life!

I came up with that on my own; not sure if it is an original, but my MIL embroidered a wall hanging of it for me!

Does she want to sell any? I'd buy one :)!!!! I LOVE IT!

Wow, apparently Whatis is now able to give decent advice on surviving! I guess when you're able to give advice it means you've moved to a good place $\:\)$ So, I will continue, seeing as how I'm on a roll! After you've been burned badly, as most of us here have been, it's very difficult to feel significant. My STBX spent years pounding into me that I wasn't significant, that I wasn't desirable...you know the rest! Yesterday, I attended church and bible study and I realized again how incredible it is to be part of a place that says YOU'RE SIGNIFICANT. While you're rebuilding your own identity and feelings of self worth this is so empowering to feel. I went to the morning bible study and it ended about 20 minutes before the church service, so I went to my normal seat and waited. During that 20 minutes I counted 12 people who approached me to greet me, inquire about me etc. and/or introduce themselves. It just amazes me that so many people took the time to say, in a small way, "you're significant". When I left early to go pick up my girls there was a tent set up outside to serve hotdogs and hamburgers, as Canada Day is approaching here. I waved at a Prayer group buddy who was helping set up. I told him I couldn't stay as I had to pick up the girls, so he took me to the stand and asked the servers to give me hotdogs to take for myself and my girls. The server wasn't sure whether she should or not, as the service was not over but my friend politely insisted "Brother Whatis really has to go so it'll be OK to start a little early for him" So off I went with lunch for the kids. Again, this man said through his actions "you are significant". It matters folks, look for places such as this where you feel cared for, it's worth the initial discomfort of seeking out a "happy place". So those are my gems for today! Btw, the DB site is one of those wonderful places too!

Wonderful things can happen Wii, when we are not too stubborn to reach out to a couple of sets of good clean hands that are ready to pull us out of the mud.

It's amazing, the number of people that will be there for you if you actually let them be! They may not even know about your sitch but to treated like a respected human being is pretty special $\:\)$
I had a a really good weekend. I saw my woman friend this weekend as we took our kids to a movie and dinner. STBX invited me and the kids over for a BBQ and afterwards we went to see fireworks. It was all quite pleasant! Sometimes I toy with the idea that I was way too easy with this woman. I was so caught up in trying to save what was left of the family and building a co-operative post M relationship that I made the separation too easy for her. On the other hand, forgiveness and moving on is darn important too! When I think this way, I remember Christ's example. When he rose from the dead he didn't come back and say to the disciples "alright guys, it's time to kick some butt, first we'll do those Jewish leaders that had me busted, next that creep Pilate and we'll finish off with those buggers that were sticking spears in my side" he didn't give any of them a second thought! He carried on with what was important to him and his kingdom. There was no revenge, hurt feelings etc he just carried on building what was good. I hope I can do just a little of that in my life!
Today I had an intersting surprise. My co-worker and I were talking in the parking lot (I know, bad place for guys to be!) and in wheels a car and the driver honks and waves. I asked my co-worker "who the heck is that?" and he replied "it's Plant Lady". She then came over and spent the break chatting with us, both of us. It was a nice surprise.
Well, tonight it's off to bible study. I've got a pretty full life here, come to think of it!
Later dbers $\:\)$

Of course it is amazing ! Incredible actually Wii..

I still dont know why Muriel wont go to Webers with me.. a work in progress I guess ? Keep on Truckin' buddy !

Tom

Hi Wii! You know, this same advice could be applied to GAL! So many of us still trying to DB our M's, find all kinds of excuses not to go out and have fun, and do things that bring us a little joy. Thanks for that reminder, 'cause I have been sitting on my a@@, and allowing myself too much self-pity.

Time to get out there, and meet new people, and do fun stuff!!!!

Hope you had a fun Canada Day yesterday!

Wii, like the post and the attitude you've curently taken/ Did the same with both xs myself. X1 took a few years to come around, and as you know (or maybe I've not made it clear in the past posts) everything is just fine as can be with an x. X1 will call up every now and then for dinner or invite me to a concert
leaving her now H at home (sleeping). x1 comes over (yes she does have a key to my house), waters the plants, feeds the cats and fish when I'm on the road and roomy is out of town. So not getting revenge / getting even / just treat them like a decent human being can have its rewards years later. Best to take the "high road", better view from up there anyway. And that in my opinion is the way we should approach it. Guess we had a good teacher two thousands years back and it's good we are still paying attention to what he had to say.
And then onto x2 of recent times. My answering machine is getting filled up from various financial institutions wanting call backs. For a week or so, thought they were wanting to contact roomy, but that wasn't the case after I cleared it up with her. After a few call backs asking what they wanted, well, turns out they were looking for x2. Skip-traces are pulling up my number from the past association and marriage.Of course I'm polite, ask them to remove my number and give them what info I can. No anger on my part or revenge thoughts. It just is. And of course the next day, as usual like I do every day, I ask Him to look after her (x2).

AT, not a good time of year to be asking Muriel out. Fireworks will be all about the night skies. Think about it. Charcoal, metal salts (they add the colors) and phosphates are the main components which are sought after this time of year. Muriel I am sure would prefer to be in a nice dark corner instead, safely tucked away.
Have a little empathy.

wii,

Going to Iraq made me have great significance again. My evaluation was outstanding. I said "Can I really be the insignificant moron my W. makes me out to be?" I really believe you and I have been emotionally abused, and pretty badly. It takes a while to recover from the beating we've been given.

I guess the trick is to just be patient, FLTC. We need to be kind to ourselves and allow that time to heal. I know, we as men, tend to think we should just get over things and in the helping profession we're even worse! We think that somehow we should be above it all. What a laugh

Anyway, I had a nice day today. I had a couple of pleasant interactions with Plant Lady too. This morning I was heading through the reception area and PL was there stapling some papers, I said jokingly "Hi, what're you up to, something evil as usual?" and she raised her arm as if to throw the stapler at me and replied "no, but I'm about to do something evil" I then said "Well, I think my work here is done, I'll be moving on". At lunch I was assigned to monitoring a certain area, you know, make sure there are no arguments, fights etc. I was sitting in a little office where I could hear everything but not become a target! I was reading a book and suddenly PL sticks her head in the door and says "So, I see you've started a reading club now too" I laughed and said "Yup, I do it all around here, pretty amazing, isn't it" She walked away laughing proudly at her successful attempt at humour! When my time was up I got up and was heading back to my office and I saw her door open so I decided to pop in for some convo, I haven't done that for a while. She seemed pleased to see me and we chatted about nothing for a bit and then she told me about a case she was pondering in her "other life" (private practice). When I left I said "Hey, reading club is every Friday, we're taking new members". So, I enjoyed my little interactions and it's nice to see her a little less anxious/rigid/whatever else around me these past few days. I really think she'd be fun to get to know....maybe one day.

Hey, I almost forgot, Happy July 4th to all my American friends out there. You guys have the second best country on earth!

They sure do, although it's a very close second! I just got back from Portland, OR! Lovely part of the country, indeed!

Close but no cigar! Oh that's right, Americans can't smoke Havana cigars, can they. But lets face it, we have that great Canadian icon called Webers (in Ontario at least) and they have...Muriel (although she's got a great ash),'nuff said.

Can only buy them in Iraq! Can't take them out, however.

Originally Posted By: FLTC

Can only buy them in Iraq! Can't take them out, however.

Hey, the good Lord gave you orfices, so use 'em!

Well, Whatis had a close call tonight, I went to our Saturday evening church service with my woman friend and our four kids. Lo and behold one of the women on my "possibilities list" showed up too (Wow, I actually have a possiblities list, isn't life great). Uh oh, that means that I'm there with a woman who could be and probably would be considered my girlfriend. What to do? Before the service this woman waved at me and therefore knew I was not alone. So, at the end of the service I hustled my butt over to her and began by asking if I'd see her tomorrow at Bible study, I then chatted as I walked her to the door and before she left I introduced her to my daughters. At the door the Pastor asked me and my kids, my friend and her kids and Possibility Lady to form a circle and then said a prayer for my daughters (and myself) as the girls are going away with their mom for three weeks, such a nice gesture on my Pastor's part! Ya know, it really just amazes me that I actually had the balls to march over and make my mark tonight. Who the hell is this guy? I'm starting to like him though and Possibility Lady seemed to like the attention. I used to be a pretty shy guy...things are a changin'. $\:\)$

I just wanted to share a bible passage from our service tonight that I think fits in well with Dbing:

"We are pressed on every side by troubles, but we are not crushed. We are perplexed, but not driven to despair. We are hunted down, but never abandoned by God. We get knocked down, but we are not destroyed"
2 Corinthians 4:8-9

We shall overcome! $\:\)$

Um, just to clarify, when I wrote "I'm there with a woman who could be and probably would be considered my girlfriend" I meant that is how others could or would percieve the situation! She's not, just to be clear!!!!!!

Originally Posted By: whatisis

Hey, I almost forgot, Happy July 4th to all my American friends out there. You guys have the second best country on earth!

Very true! $;\)$

I understood what you meant. But that's me! Hehehe.

Thanks Trip, I want to be clear about such things!
The next few weeks will be difficult for me as my girls are going away to China for three weeks. I will be alone, as a separated man, for the first time. My apartment will seem very empty indeed. But, my schedule remains pretty active and I'm thinking of spending some time with people havent' seen for a long while. As I was leaving church last night the Pastor called out to me "Whatis, it's gonna be OK!" It's nice to know she recognizes what it's like for me not to have my girls. She also knows some of the situation I've come through.
Earlier in the week my D11 asked "Daddy, are you taking us to the airport on Friday?" and I replied "Well, your mom hasn't asked me to" so D said "Well, I want you to, so I'll talk to her". Two days later D says "I talked to mommy and she says she didn't ask you because you didn't say you wanted to" Yup, I think that little statement pretty much sums up 17 years of our M, two people on two different train tracks! I felt that this was her trip, and was respecting her right to make whatever arrangements she wanted and I didn't want to force what I may have wanted to do onto her. She thinks, as usual, she shouldn't have to ask for things but I should know and volunteer cuz I'm a friggin psychic or something. Oh well, I'll be driving them to the airport at 4:00am!
yesterday I took the girls to a bookstore so they could buy some reading material for their flight. I thought it would be a nice gesture to buy something for their mom too. You can't imagine how hard it is to find something she might like but wouldn't take the wrong way! The kids were saying "Oh, don't take this book daddy it talks about joy, she'll think you're saying she's not joyful enough" Yes, they know their mother probably better than I do! I was gonna get "Why Men Marry Bitches" for her but...

Well, off to drop the girls and head to bible study and church afterwards, then head downtown for a festival and try to catch the evening church service if I'm back in time.
Have a great day fellow DBers.

I am really trying to equate.. no.. convalesce.. reconcile.. something. .. this is hard..

between the church services.. orifices.. and the book of the month club here.. hmm.. Must go back to tomcave.

Tom

Originally Posted By: attorneytom

I am really trying to equate.. no.. convalesce.. reconcile.. something. .. this is hard..

between the church services.. orifices.. and the book of the month club here.. hmm.. Must go back to tomcave.

Tom

Yes, the world of Whatis is a wacky place indeed!
Hey, Possibility Lady showed up for bible study this morning (her first time) walked over, put her hand on my shoulder as she passed, sat down beside me and said "Whatis, your two girls are beautiful" Old Whatis sure liked where this was going! After the class we stood and talked in the foyer, another person then joined us and finally PL said she was going to go into the service so I said "see you later". I didn't want to be too intrustive by saying "would you like some company" so I went to my normal seat. Keep them wanting more! Nice lady, I liked her. She stays on the list.

wii,

Same experiences with my W. If you volunteered to take them to the airport, you would have been wrong, and if you didn't volunteer, you would be...... (hands on buzzers).....WRONG! It really is wack a mole.

We just smile and wave, FLTC. What else can you do with such craziness!
Hey Dbers, I need some info on church etiquette! When I was a Heathen we never had churches so I didn't have to know any of this stuff, we just had to feel superior to all the Christian morons, that was it! Pretty simple stuff, right? OK, so now I'm on foreign turf here and don't know the rules, so if I sit with a single woman at church is that making some kind of statement? I sure don't want to shut down the possiblities list by being seen as "taken" and, in reality, I don't want to be too available either because I'm in no place to be anything to anyone right now. I just wanna enjoy the ride for a bit. What are the rules? HELP!!!! I really messed up on the male/female parent fraternization rules in the "Waiting For Your Kids Rule Book" awhile back with Coffee Buddy, I can't afford any more screw ups (especially when God's watching)! Do I avoid all Pew contact?

Now just to show you how serious I am, I saw a single fellow at church tonight making his rounds with the ladies and they were scattering like cockroaches when the lights go on! I don't wanna be him

Thanks Wii.
By the way, I'll be "invading" yours next weekend with Ms $3M.

Originally Posted By: Goinbatty

Thanks Wii.
By the way, I'll be "invading" yours next weekend with Ms $3M.

Remember the War of 1812, that "invasion" didn't go so well for you guys...but visits are still welcome!

Originally Posted By: FLTC

wii,

Same experiences with my W. If you volunteered to take them to the airport, you would have been wrong, and if you didn't volunteer, you would be...... (hands on buzzers).....WRONG! It really is wack a mole.

Just thinkin' out loud here FLTC but actually it is quite freeing to know that everything you do will be wrong! You don't have to worry about doing the right thing because it will ALWAYS be the wrong thing. Look at all the energy we save for other more worthwhile things...like therapy!

Hey Tom, isn't it the big Mahogany Rush concert in Cleveland this weekend? Are you gonna sneak Muriel in, what if they frisk ya? "Hey, check out what this guy has in his pocket. Were you gonna snort this"? Leave her at home... in the ashtray. But most importantly, don't make her the designated driver. Just my 2 cents.

OK, here is my list of all the good things about being alone:

1) I can flirt with whoever I want
2) I don't have to phone someone every single night to show I care
3) I don't have to talk about my feelings (but then again, she never really cared much about my feelings)
4) I don't have to listen to her talk about her feelings... and talk about her feelings... and talk about her feelings....
5) "I want to talk about our R" is nothing but a distant nightmare but one that other guys have to live, not me!
6) I can do the dishes any time I damn well please
7) Mind reading is on the psychic channel only and I can turn that sucker off!
8) My underwear is on the friggin bedroom floor just because I want it there
9) I can wash the boat cover with the delicates any time I want
10) I can drive the ex to the airport and put her on a plane leaving the country!
It's all good folks.

Yes.. of course the concert is next or .. um .. this tuesday eh ?

Here is my "Top Ten"

1. I can be with whomever I want.
2.I keep the phone off the hook most nights.
3.I talk to myself about my feelings.. and this is a dialogue(is that the CDN sp ?).. I forget..anyway..
4. I listen to me.. damn it !
5. My nightmares now involve giant spiders !.. instead of the other.
6.I do the dishes 4 times a day.. or atleast it seems that way.
7. I will leave this blank and hope you can channel it.
8.My boys now wear and or steal my underwear.. um see #6..uh oh.
9.That would be laundry.. I think !
10. I think I have laundry to do.. must check it ..

Tom

I'd say the rule is there is no rule. Besides, aren't you going to church for another reason other than worrying about how things may appear by sitting beside single women or not.

Originally Posted By: Trip

I'd say the rule is there is no rule. Besides, aren't you going to church for another reason other than worrying about how things may appear by sitting beside single women or not.

You're right, it's also for the tax receipt!

Tom, I think we have the makings of a new thread, the top ten reasons to be alone! I love your "Top Ten"...anyone else wanna play? Oh btw, I don't even own a boat cover but if I wanted to I could!

Top ten is a great idea. I vote yes!

AO

The single condition is starting to look really attractive! $\:\)$ Here's a list I got off http://lifestyle.sympatico.msn.ca/relati...onenabled=false

This is from a woman's perspective, of course.
10. Your shoe inventory is nobody's business but your own (my favourite reason - I know, I know)
9. The only mess in your home is your own mess! (Of course, this is assuming you have never married and had children)
8. Peace of mind (no more wondering what he meant when he said whatever, or trying to interpret his needs without him actually saying something, and so many other reasons)
7. Any night is girls' night
6. You don't have to deal with in-laws
5. It's all about you, all the time (sounds selfish, but when you want to get involved in a charity or something, then you can without consultation)
4. That big, comfortable bed is ALL yours
3. Birthdays and special occasions will never be forgotten
2. Your entertainment options will always be entertaining to you
1. Independence: That's hot!

Not sure if I agree with all of these, but with some --- definitely. $\:\)$ I do have to remind myself, sometimes, that I am trying to piece, but the single option is looking pretty good and tempting.

For myself, I would just change "shoes" to "books", I never worried about the in-laws as they are in China but we really did get along great cuz they couldn't speak English...we just smiled alot! As for "any night is girls night out" well, I guess that stays because they are all out... just without me!

Anyway, my D11 just gave me a handmade card tonight and it reads:

Dear Daddy,
I will miss you when we are gone to China, thank you for taking us to the airport! I love you and you are the best daddy in the whole universe. I will see you soon and I love you lots!!! XOXOXOXO
Sincerely,
D11
P.S. I love you!

What more could any guy ask for! $\:\)$

wii,

What's your living arrangement? Is you W. in the house and are you in an apartment? How's that working? Speaking of books, how is your concentration? I Often have trouble reading books (also a passion of mine) recently. What happens to the house in the divorce? There are a lot of options for that, I understand. Good luck without the kids. They'll be back soon enough. Any more laundry room encounters?

I have a 2 bedroom a few blocks from STBX. I allowed STXW to buy me out of the house because she would be more able to keep up payments on the mortgage that would need to be taken out as she earns more. I did not want the kids to have to deal with mom and dad separating and then the loss of their home too! No way. I also didn't want to live my life a cash stapped home owner who couldn't do anything but sit in his backyard for fun. Our home was paid off so she had to take out a mortgage to pay me off, so I'm sitting on a nice little wad of cash! Now, the kids spend one week with me and one with my STBX. My lawyer says it is a very unusual arrangement as males tend to get screwed. In all fairness, my STBX knows I am a good father and that my kids would suffer if I wasn't allowed equal time. She was very co-operative so that is also a good reason to keep things as friendly as possible, it's best for parenting arrangements. Now, as for concentration, it will come back FLTC, you've been though so much and it's normal to be in a haze for awhile. I had trouble sleeping the first month or so, I would sleep about 3 or 4 hours a night for a couple in a row and then pass out for 10 hours, just accept it and know that it will get back to normal. It's a traumatic journey, FLTC but just try to remember what my Coffee Buddy said to me, and I will always be grateful for, "no matter how bad it gets, it will always get better"...it will FLTC, it will.
Btw, I'm on the ninth floor too!

Is Plant Lady still hot and cold, wii?

Thanks, wii. I feel the same about the house, but I make almost 3x what W. does. She takes care of the kids basic needs very well and keeps them organized and focused, but as I've said before, everything is a "12 on a 10 point scale" with her, whether it's a napkin not in the kids' lap whe they eat, or a hairbrush left on a counter.(The funny part about this one is the house is usually a mess, so i't selective zeroing in. Bizarre)

Same here. You've read about my relationship with my kids. My S10 and I are inseparable, and my D's are hot and cold with W. She also knows this, and would not want to prevent me from seeing them all that I could. The part that su&ks is the additional commotion this introduces into an already out of control schedule with three kids and two full time jobs.

What is tough for me is that I could not afford an apartment in the town where we live. We moved here 14 years ago and could not afford a starter home today. Our house has appreciated about 350K from what we paid for it, so living part time with me is hard, because of school. I purposely took the apt because it's only 6 miles from the kids and 10 from work. It is already better at times. I used to not be able to even sit in my house, because I would literally crawl out of my own skin. This also used to happen at work. I literally could not sit in place. Things su&k, but at least now, are mostly manageable.

Once I lost the fear of a divorce, I also began to lose fear of the beast that was my W. I don't really care if she's offended or if I've yet again made the wrong move. It's not about me. She is a twisted soul. For comic relief, read some of my posts back around October of 06. She makes you W. look highly predictive.

Originally Posted By: Trip

Is Plant Lady still hot and cold, wii?

Yeah.. enquiring minds want to know , eh ?

Is the bloom still on or off the rose ? Is she budding or wilting in the warm glow of summer ? Are her blossoms robust and fragrant or are the petals each removing themselves one by one in the breeze.. Will pollenation ever occur during the growing season ??

Tom

LOL

Ahh.. Briget.. If I can make you laugh.. well you made my day !

I wonder if PL would do better if we moved her over the septic tank ?

Just a thought !

Tom

Oh God, Tom! That's funny!

You people disgust me...but in a good kind of way!

I go to my bible study and this is what I come home to! Tom, PL is not some kind of grow op, ya know! Btw, I haven't seen her all week so you'll all have to continue in suspense for awhile longer.
Today my woman friend and I took the day off and went to an art gallery just outside the city. We had a really nice day. This evening I went to bible study and had a nice chat with Possiblity Lady, she initiated btw. So I've been busy busy today! Friday I'll be driving STBX and the kids to the airport at 4:00 am. and my three week adventure will be beginning.
Later Dbers.

I'll need help screwing if you have the time. That is if you're not busy in the laundry room "doing a small load by hand"

I was just thinking that she might blossom ?

Dont know for sure.. not my profession.,eh ?

Tom

Umm, I think she may just be blossoming! We were talking in her office today and the conversation went to church attendance and I ended up asking her to go to our next Saturday evening service with me. She smiled and said "I really need to think about this first, is that OK?" I said "no prob, just let me know". So we will see! She was really enjoying the convo and prolonging it, so I just went for it. I understand the working together aspect and respect her need to give it thought. If it's a no go then I can at least say I tried! I'll keep you plant lovers updated. $\:\)$

I am sure she atleast needs to check the weather channel for the extended forecast..

Tom

Or stick one of those rods in you to see if you need watering or if you are just right......

yeah.. maybe some of those MiracleGro spike thingys too ?

What Zone are you in there Wii ??

Tom

Hey, maybe she'll let me change her topsoil...would that be a good thing?
OK, what are the odds that she doesn't get back to me at all? My experience with women, as limited as that may be, tells me it's about 50/50 and that's being pretty darn optimistic! I really hope that if she doesn't want to she will just say so, I would respect that greatly. But, in all honesty, I didn't pick up any discomfort on her part and really walked away feeling that she genuinely had to think about it. Although, we don't work for the same department and we don't share clients etc, we still have contact and know all the same people. She's been pretty uptight about interacting with me around others but is way personable when we're alone in her office. So, I'll wait and see, if she doesn't get back to me I will let it go and lessen my little office visits. If she says OK, we'll go from there. She was telling me how she missed her church back home because the church she goes to now is "so family oriented that if you are single you can feel pretty left out and lonely" I thought I'd step up and fill that lonely void in her life. I presented it as an opportunity for us to go out and have some fun together as the Saturday service is lively, fun and casual. We'll just "plant" ourselves in a pew and photosynthesize!

Did I ever tell you folks about a friend of mine who had this bizarre theory about dating? If so, you'll hear it again! He said that he expected to be rejected 9 out of 10 times, so every time he was rejected he felt excited because that meant he was one closer to that magic number 10, who was gonna say "yes". He'd even ask out women he knew would say "no" just to get that much closer to that big score that he knew was just around the corner! I always thought he was kind of nuts but, in hindsight, I guess it's all about attitude, isn't it... and how to turn your losses into gains.
Well, time to hit the sack as 4:00 am comes early. Gotta drive the family to the airport. Goodnite Dbers.

Quote:

Hey, maybe she'll let me change her topsoil...would that be a good thing?

A lot better than if she wants you to change her bottomsoil

Work R's can be complex WII, I am sure she is simply thinking it through before saying yes.........

Ian

Originally Posted By: whatisis

Did I ever tell you folks about a friend of mine who had this bizarre theory about dating? If so, you'll hear it again! He said that he expected to be rejected 9 out of 10 times, so every time he was rejected he felt excited because that meant he was one closer to that magic number 10, who was gonna say "yes". He'd even ask out women he knew would say "no" just to get that much closer to that big score that he knew was just around the corner! I always thought he was kind of nuts but, in hindsight, I guess it's all about attitude, isn't it... and how to turn your losses into gains.
Well, time to hit the sack as 4:00 am comes early. Gotta drive the family to the airport. Goodnite Dbers.

whatisis,

I have heard that about sales people as well........

The dating arena is interesting...... One can just about always find someone who is attracted to you.... It is just a matter of time....... The funny thing is you sometimes do approach that woman you think will say "no" and she ends up digging you BIG time.....

I heard a very wise man say the best advise his father gave him was... "Son, it NEVER hurts to ask." I have applied that tidbit of wisdom to so many areas...... And I am surprised over and over again!

Take Care,

NMD

Last call! I hope I don't sound disheartened because I'm not. I'm quite pleased that I reached out and took a chance. If it's not be, that's cool. Yet, it would be really nice to be able to go out, away from the office, and actually get to know each other. Time will tell!
OK, this time I'm really going to bed!

OK so what do you guys think about this. I had a guy ask me today why if women aren't interested do they act as if they are yet give out the wrong phone number.

Personally, I had never heard of anyone doing this but he says that it's happened to him a couple of times and he's a really nice guy.

Maybe because he is nice, they don't want to hurt his feelings--to his face. I think it is spineless.

Oh, and btw, boys, how is it that "your kind" can turn ANYthing into sex? Even dirt. It never ceases to amaze me. $;\)$

Originally Posted By: Donna...Found

Maybe because he is nice, they don't want to hurt his feelings--to his face. I think it is spineless.

Oh, and btw, boys, how is it that "your kind" can turn ANYthing into sex? Even dirt. It never ceases to amaze me. $;\)$

We were talking about sex? Hey, how come nobody told ME!
OK, really...I'm going to bed.

Oh go to bed already. What good are you anyway? OOPS sorry.....I feel like I've heard that somewhere before. Oh right it was from the ex!

Now this is exactly the reason some people continue to decorate their homes with artificial plants jsyk.. geez !

Tom

Well, I took the kids and STBX off to the airport this morning. Before they boarded we stopped at the airport coffee shop and got coffee and snacks. One of the servers asked "is this separate?" and the other server looked at us, smiled and said "No, they're a family". Wow, a tearjerker moment there for me! I held back, and thought how wonderful it is for others to look at us and still think "family"! We sat and talked about previous trips to China "do you remember this?" or "I remember when we...", it was really nice. Afterwards I walked them to the boarding area and youngest burst into tears, I held her, told her I'd miss her too, and that we'll be back together in three short weeks. I kissed the oldest and hugged her and then took STBX's head in my hands and gave her a kiss on the forhead. I wished her a great trip and asked her to give my love to her family. It was all worth the $16.00 for parking

I then drove directly to work arriving just on time.
Now I can get back to cultivating the plant life around here! Plastic plants?...WTH! Are they blow up?

I went to a movie yesterday, Journey to the Center of the Earth! A huge pile of cow dung, don't go! Script was stilted and predictable, take your kid if he or she is under 8! The upside is that I only paid 6.99.
I phoned my family tonight in China as I hadn't heard from them and was getting anxious. D said they'd phoned but couldn't get through so she sent me an email, I of course, had not checked my emails today. I slept really badly last night, whenever I put the fan on it messes with my sleep. So I was kind of worrying about my family all day and then started to get anxious about my maybe date next Saturday night. I started thinking maybe I'm not ready to go out with someone, what if... well, no need to go through the silly list, I'm sure you can all guess the multitude of incredible disasters I could come up with. What an incredible waste of time! I don't think I've slept well since the kids left. It's somehow weird to feel so alone right now, it's an adjustment. When I'm feeling tired and a bit worn down the old anxiety bug can bite away. I went for a run this afternoon hoping this would help put me back on an even keel. I also went to both the church services today, met and chatted with two new people. So, it's now time for me to hit the sack, do a little reading and pass out. I hope that now that I've talked to the kids I'll sleep better. Goodnight Dbers.

Good Night there wii !

Tom

Sleep well!

wii-
Glad to hear you were able to talk to the kids. Might be worth it to do daily emails with them, to feel more connected?

Hope the sleep has been better...

Originally Posted By: BethM

OK so what do you guys think about this. I had a guy ask me today why if women aren't interested do they act as if they are yet give out the wrong phone number.

Personally, I had never heard of anyone doing this but he says that it's happened to him a couple of times and he's a really nice guy.

They are just trying to get free drinks?

Well, I had an unexpected encounter with Plant Lady today. I was passing by her office and noticed the door open and she's usually not around today. I stopped in to say Hi, how are you, how was your weekend blah blah and was met with short, polite answers and alot of dead air, so I moved on. When I got back to my office I realized that this person is not going to get back to me, she's gonna take the easy way out and avoid me for the week. I think four days to think about it might have resulted some remark like "what time is this service on Saturday night?" or "where do you want to meet" or even "sorry, can't make it" but there was no reference to it at all. So, I'll leave it to her to catch me, I won't be dropping by in hopes of getting an answer. I'll just accept it ain't happening and move along. Hey, I could be wrong here but that's the feeling I got from today's encounter, it's the Petite Coffee Buddy approach...avoid at all costs. Sorry Plant Lady but I've been trained by a real pro, avoid away! I just can't fathom why it seems a better option to avoid, make the guy feel like crap and probably yourself too rather than just say "thanks but no thanks"? I have greatly respected women who have said "you're a nice guy but..." I've also had some real weird ones in the past, my favourites are "sure I'll go, catch me later in the week and we'll work out the details" and guess what, they can't be found later in the week! Got fooled on that one twice! I actually did find one of them and she said "sit here, I'll be right back" at a table with all her friends and then didn't come back! Fun...wow! Ah, the memories! Oh well, off to make dinner and maybe, just maybe take out the recycle.
Later Dbers.

Jeez sorry about that wii..

what a bunch of compost !!

Tom

Hey, there is good stuff here too, Tom! I remember the first time I took out the woman who became my W. After a nice evening at a Greek restaurant was over I asked her if she'd like to catch a movie the next week (oops, I was being too available!), she said "sure, just call me" so I did, and guess what, she never returned my call. So after a few months of her avoiding me at work (hmm there seems to be a life long pattern here) I called her and said "I realize that there is some tension between you and I and I would like to get together and see if we can deal with it like adults" and she went for it, after that we started dating and ended up married. Oh yeah, I guess that really isn't the good stuff, is it! Just trying to stay positive here.

Oh and here is the best one of all! I asked a woman out to a baseball game (she liked baseball) and she said "Yes" so when I approached her to work out the details I overheard her talking to her girlfriend about a party they were going to on the night she and I had planned to go to the game. When I questioned this apparent scheduling issue she replied "Oh, I guess I just forgot" Wow, did I feel special! So, I gave up on her and a month or so later she offered me a ride somewhere and in the car said " We never did get to that baseball game, it was my fault and I want to apologize. Could we try again sometime?" I was quite impressed that she would make such an admission and request, it took courage so I stupidly called her again. "Oh, sorry, I'm planning to redecorate my bedroom next weekend" and that was it, no "how about the next weekend" or anything, so I said "see ya!" and that was that. Ah, love is such a splendid thing...no wonder people get married so they don't have to deal with it anymore! Enough of memory lane, it kinda sucks, doesn't it!

Geez, wii! looks like you saved yourself a lot of trouble early on. Who needs women like those!

All,

This reminds me of an old story of mine.....

A gal I used to date (B) lived next store to a girl from my church (C)... Are you with me so far?

Well, B was sitting on her front porch... She heard C on the phone talking about a mutual friend of ours she was dating... She said, "I don't really like him. But, he took me out to dinner and gave me a necklace. I wonder what he will buy me next? We are going out again Friday." Well, B told the guy.... That ended that....

NMD

It just makes me wonder how they ever expect to be pollenated ?Too much fertilizer.. I think ?

Just me... Hey.. it is taco night at lake !!!

Tom

Hey, I don't want you guys to think Whatis hasn't had some successes! How about this one, I dated this woman for about two months and she wanted me to move in but I said I didn't feel that would be the best thing for our R. So, two months later she bounces my ass and says "I think it was all just lust". I say "but two months ago you wanted me to move in but I wouldn't" and she says "I guess you made a good choice then didn't you", handed me a bag of my belongs from her place and showed me the door. Now that's a love story!

Oh there's more! I got an army romance story. I dated this woman, a real hot babe and we'd do stuff on base. I asked her to go off base to a restaurant one night but she said she'd rather go to an onbase party, I said OK as I knew the guy throwing the party. We went and she was all over every guy at the party except me, when I went over to her and told her I had an issue with her behaviour she said "Well, this is the way I am, if you want to be with me you then you'd better get used to it" So I said "I don't want to be with you" and that was that. A couple nights later I was in the canteen and a fellow MP sat down with me and he asked if I was still dating the babe and I told him I dumped her. He said "Yeah, I can understand why, when I was going out with her all she wanted to do was f@ck, all night every night. I'm as much a man as anybody else but I can only take so much. I'm still finding her panties around my place" OOOOKKKK!!!!! Army love, another great story.

Originally Posted By: attorneytom

It just makes me wonder how they ever expect to be pollenated ?Too much fertilizer.. I think ?

Just me... Hey.. it is taco night at lake !!!

Tom

Did you say Taco night? That's gotta be better than reading anymore of my dumb stories! Munch out, Tom

Originally Posted By: whatisis

Originally Posted By: attorneytom

It just makes me wonder how they ever expect to be pollenated ?Too much fertilizer.. I think ?

Just me... Hey.. it is taco night at lake !!!

Tom

Did you say Taco night? That's gotta be better than reading anymore of my dumb stories! Munch out, Tom

Depends on the taco, doesn't it??? Sorry, I have been exposed to Bethie's dirty mind!

or maybe the hot sauce!

Wii, had a nice time across the border with Ms 3 M over the long weekend. My compliments to the country, we're meeting up again over there next month. However, the food at the particular establishment had much to be desired. Tom's taco night sounds like a buffet in comparison, hopefully our sampling this past weekend is not reflective of the country cuisine. I always liked sailing across Lake Erie from the Cleveland area,a few decades back, dropping anchor and getting fish and chips on the CA side, yum, in highly technical food terms.
Looks like it "war" stories night on the board so here is my fav before I hit the pillows (and dream of days gone by)
I had the opposite of your experiences - of sorts. Dating for a few months, close to a year. The young lady shows up on a Friday night, we get romantic (as usual), she spends the night. I wake up to a phone ringing around 9 AM , it's her calling from a pay phone (didn't have such a thing as cellphones back then) to inform me she loved the night with me, but something she forgot to mention last night- she was getting married and was calling on the way to her wedding.
Like that one? It gets better.
That happened not just once, but twice.
And I know your follow up question already - yes they did appear on my doorstep between 6 months and the second around year after.
And no, I didn't.

Originally Posted By: Goinbatty

Looks like it "war" stories night on the board so here is my fav before I hit the pillows (and dream of days gone by) I had the opposite of your experiences - of sorts. Dating for a few months, close to a year. The young lady shows up on a Friday night, we get romantic (as usual), she spends the night. I wake up to a phone ringing around 9 AM , it's her calling from a pay phone (didn't have such a thing as cellphones back then) to inform me she loved the night with me, but something she forgot to mention last night- she was getting married and was calling on the way to her wedding.
Like that one? It gets better.
That happened not just once, but twice.
And I know your follow up question already - yes they did appear on my doorstep between 6 months and the second around year after.
And no, I didn't.

GB,

Those are interesting stories..... I wonder how these gals kept both relationships going...... Especially since one of them was "very serious"...... I could see stringing along two people you are "casually dating".....

You are truly blessed you were not the poor sap who married either of these women.... Both have serious character issues....

Take Care,

NMD

Originally Posted By: Trip

Originally Posted By: whatisis

Originally Posted By: attorneytom

It just makes me wonder how they ever expect to be pollenated ?Too much fertilizer.. I think ?

Just me... Hey.. it is taco night at lake !!!

Tom

Did you say Taco night? That's gotta be better than reading anymore of my dumb stories! Munch out, Tom

Depends on the taco, doesn't it??? Sorry, I have been exposed to Bethie's dirty mind!

Um excuse me? Whatever does that mean? I just call 'em like I see 'em!

You are truly blessed you were not the poor sap who married either of these women.... Both have serious character issues....

Boy Dodo,

Isn't that the truth. Hopefully that's where finding this sight and figuring out what happened and what our needs are has really helped. Of course having others who have been there to talk to and point the way has helped as well. Judging from the mess I was when I first got here, I very well could have made some major mistakes, but then I guess we all could say the same.

Wii...you're doing good.........

Originally Posted By: BethM

Originally Posted By: Trip

Originally Posted By: whatisis

Originally Posted By: attorneytom

It just makes me wonder how they ever expect to be pollenated ?Too much fertilizer.. I think ?

Just me... Hey.. it is taco night at lake !!!

Tom

Did you say Taco night? That's gotta be better than reading anymore of my dumb stories! Munch out, Tom

Depends on the taco, doesn't it??? Sorry, I have been exposed to Bethie's dirty mind!

Um excuse me? Whatever does that mean? I just call 'em like I see 'em!

Just saying I learned from the best. *insert sheepish grin here*

Well, another day and no word from Plant Lady...how shocking (he writes sarcastically) . If she doesn't want to face me she has my cell number and could easily kiss my ass goodbye that way. It really does annoy me when people choose the avoidance method as a first line of defence to deal with others. Part of me wants to go to her office next week and just say "you know, I have no problem with you choosing not to go to the church service with me but I do have a problem with being disrespected. By not letting me know, one way or the other, I felt disrespected. I hope you will treat others better in the future" I really hate just letting things go and pretending that it didn't matter and then leaving that person with the impression that throwing lines at people and brushing them off is an easy and effective approach to dealing with others. It's not, it's hurtful and largely unnecessary. By confronting the issue I may be saving some other guy from the "I need to think about it" syndrome, some guy who needs saving even more than I do! I know it is hard for a woman to say NO but it's also damn hard for a man to ask in the first place! I'm thinking this singles scene is not a real good fit for Whatis and his "doing what is right" mentality!

Oh well, I've now vented and will move on bigger and better things...like Tacos, that's something that you can really depend on to deliver. When you say "no hot sauce" you get no hot sauce, when you're done you belch and it's all over. Tacos are the way to go!
Hey, what if she actually does approach me later in the week? How would I ever be able to face you guys again? Oh yeah, I don't face you, I write to you...there's a big difference

OK, that's the last you'll hear of this little episode in my life. I'm done. Tacos anyone?

No tacos. I'll just take the hot sauce. Just one minor critique. I'm not sure "avoidance" can automatically be translated as "disrespect". Disrespect to me is thoughtful and with a purpose, to put it in your face. Sometimes people go underground, because coming right out and saying "no" or coming up with some other explanation/excuse is the easier (not the right, but easier) path to take. How many men or women have the type of integrity or testicular/ovarian fortitude to say "No thanks". Also, PL may not want to hurt your feelings. Who the f*ck knows? My scheckel for this evening.

Excellent point on the disrespect, FLTC. There is certainly no malicious intent here at all, it's just a simple case of avoiding discomfort which in the long run always leads to a more drawn out discomfort than what would have occured if one had of just dealt with the situation! I do have to disagree on the point "PL may not want to hurt your feelings". That reason often gets used as an excuse for not following through by people, but in reality, I think avoiding someone or the situation hurts the other persons feelings just as much or even more and everyone involved knows it. IMHO, I think the person needing to say the "no thanks" is thinking more about his or her own discomfort rather than yours when they fail to follow through. But as you so elegantly wrote, who the f*ck knows?

But people are people and we all have our own little trips and bugaboos to deal with, no one is perfect in this life and that certainly includes me!
Thanks for your thoughts, FLTC they are helpful!

And from those two experiences at a reasonably young age I was pretty "gun shy" as the expression goes in getting into a serious relationship for a long time. Knew both my xs for a long time before ever doing the M thing. As it turned out, that didn't work either. I almost think extremely short period of dating followed by M might work just as well, or not. Probably the sames odds. But I won't be trying M again anyway.
Got any good tequila & a lime to go with them chips?

Probably true, GB!
My sister met her H and dated for a few days, then lived with him right after and then married. So far, they have been married for 19 years. Something that the odds weren't supposed to be in favour of.
So who really knows.

My W and I dated about six months before getting married and it lasted 17 years, it lasted longer than anyone probably would have guessed at the beginning! Something went horribly wrong somewhere, didn't it?

Heh! Tell me about. No wait. You already did!

But yeah, I think there is no tried and true when it comes to marriage. I think we do our best and sometimes not but there is so much tied into it the equations are too numerous.

Looks like I got my point across without messing it up.
And on my "war story", that wasn't bragging, that was "I was an idiot" not seeing that coming - twice. Just clarifying my intent.
And on the topic of the former Ws, just bad roll of the dice. Great Ws when I Md - first one got sidetracked by a sweet talker she worked with(she's w #5 for him and constantly connected by the cell phone since she can't trust him) and W2 was one of the 5% that went crackers when menopause came around.
Just the way it goes sometimes. Unfortunate it usually takes a long time for us to recover.

I just think that if I ever even considered getting married again.. or even into a R.. well she would have to enjoy Taco Night, eh ?

Wii.. My ears are still not the same yet from M. Rush last night at the House of Blues... No plants there btw..

Tom

Rock on, Tom!
Well, Plant Lady did her elusive best to avoid me this week but unfortunately there were two points of contact today. She is a rookie so I'll overlook these blunders! But both times she recovered masterfully by avoiding any verbal interaction. Good work on that count. For most of the week she has managed to stay entirely out of the building as her work is such that she can be elsewhere much of the time if she chooses to be. So my job now is to not personalize this lack of getting back to me. I need to recognize that this is a person who can't or just doesn't know how to say "thanks but no thanks". It has nothing to do with my desirablility etc, part of me says "It's just one more woman saying you're nothing to me" so I need to catch that and squash it like a bug! On the upside, it would have been much worse if she chose to go but really didn't want to. So now I think Whatis will just lie low for awhile, I think I've had enough of these kinds of experiences for a bit. It's time to be me and enjoy the good stuff about being alone. I will concentrate on that, on building my self up and stay away from situations which could drag me down. When I'm ready to venture out into that weird and wacky world of male/female R's...well, I may be old and grey

I just mean it's best right now to stay away from anxiety provoking situations that just seem to pull me down. I need to be on an even keel these days. So that's my goal. To be alone and love it! $\:\)$
Later Dbers.

hey wii

some of us like the gray look!!!!

sorry about plant lady
she sounds like she might have a little root rot or some problems with aphids anyway

It really does amaze me at the lengths women will go to just to avoid saying "No thanks"! Coffee Buddy seemed to run off screaming into the night and I didn't even ask her to do anything, she was just thinking I was going to! Again, I just can't fathom why it seems a better option to not face the issue and deal with weeks and months of potential anxiety, avoidance bahaviour and feeling badly about yourself? It's too weird for me. Now, I have to say, I am one who has always faced these things for that very reason, I don't want it hanging over my head. If someone wants me to visit for dinner etc and I don't want to I don't say "can I let you know" and not get back to them, I say thanks but no thanks and throw them a facesaving excuse. I just don't get it! Lie to me but at least show me the courtesy of a response! OK, tirade over...and Fig, I lied, I'm already gray!
OK, I stand corrected, avoiding me is a response, it's just not a very nice one!

Originally Posted By: Trip

Heh! Tell me about. No wait. You already did!

But yeah, I think there is no tried and true when it comes to marriage. I think we do our best and sometimes not but there is so much tied into it the equations are too numerous.

Trip,

I have to disagee....

I think the equations are the following:

1 Committed Person + 1 Committed Person = Long Lasting Marriage
1 Committed Person + 1 Jacked Up Person (like my exW) = Divorce

In reality, there is no way on God's green Earth to predict if a M will last.....

It depends upon how each partner views the M each and every passing day.....

My parents were M for 42 years before dad passed... Wifey's parents are going on 55 years...

Take Care,

NMD

Originally Posted By: attorneytom

I just think that if I ever even considered getting married again.. or even into a R.. well she would have to enjoy Taco Night, eh ?

AT,

It seems like a Latina woman would fit that criteria..... I LOVE my Latina woman BIG TIME... Oh, yeah, she is my new W as well...

NMD

Originally Posted By: whatisis

So my job now is to not personalize this lack of getting back to me. I need to recognize that this is a person who can't or just doesn't know how to say "thanks but no thanks". It has nothing to do with my desirablility etc, part of me says "It's just one more woman saying you're nothing to me" so I need to catch that and squash it like a bug!

WII,

Why worry about PL, exW or any woman? The last time I checked, there were lots of attractive single women on plant Earth..... Go find another one!

NMD

Originally Posted By: No_More_Dodo

The last time I checked, there were lots of attractive single women on plant Earth..... Go find another one!

Oooooooppppppssssss.... I meant to write planet Earth......

NMD

NMD, I'm not worrying about any woman! I honestly don't think I want one right now. For years I spent my time trying to think of ways to save my M, trying to address her issues with me, looking to be a better H blah blah blah and I don't want to try to be anything for anyone right now. I think basically with PL I was just wanting companionship, someone to do something with, talk with etc. I wasn't looking for some big dating R, in fact, that might have been very scary for me right now. I really think it's time for me to be for ME! Women will be there when the time is right, I'm just thinking this may not be the time for me. PL may have done me a favour (in a sh!tty kind of way

)! Besides, I still have my woman friend for companionship and we don't have to worry about the male/female crap getting in the way. $\:\)$

maybe your hot sex appeal was too much for her?

whatever the reason

she should have come out and said it

I find I have to because my lies are so jacked up and elaborate that half way through I have to give up anyway

Fig, all she had to say was "thanks but I can't make it" and I would have said "no problem, let me know any time you might like to go" and that would be that, I didn't even include a dinner invitation so how frightening could singing a few hymns together be! I think women probably fantasize about all the possible ways it could go wrong when they say "no thanks". Undoubtedly, there are jerks out there but I'm a nice guy, I wouldn't have pushed it any further. So now, I guess when I see her I will just say "good morning" and move on, I wouldn't feel comfortable saying much more thanks to this strange treatment, I sure won't be dropping by to chat anymore! Too bad, I'm open for more friends, but at this point, she won't be one of them!
I'm thinking of having some fun with this new power I have over women. I'll start asking out women from church and see how fast they become Jehovah Witnesses! I'll hit on vegetarian women and watch how quickly Burger King fills up. The world is my oyster on this one, who knows how far it could go! A new reality TV series maybe?

Hmm, come to think of it, I not only turned my W off M I turned her off men. She dumped me for a woman. I wonder if I can also turn water into wine or any really good stuff like that? Gotta go, I'm gonna give it a try! I'll let ya know how it turns out. Stay tuned.

OK, here's what I learned. Never turn toilet water into wine, the stain in the bowl is hell to get out! Live and learn, eh.

Originally Posted By: whatisis

OK, here's what I learned. Never turn toilet water into wine, the stain in the bowl is hell to get out! Live and learn, eh.

WII, you been sipping some of that sacrimental wine tonight?

For my next miracle I'm gonna bring down the price of gas! OK, now it's getting unbelievable, right? I had you guys with the wine thing though, didn't I? I gotta learn when enough is enough.

Originally Posted By: sofaraway

Originally Posted By: whatisis

OK, here's what I learned. Never turn toilet water into wine, the stain in the bowl is hell to get out! Live and learn, eh.

WII, you been sipping some of that sacrimental wine tonight?

Sofaraway, the frightening thing is that I'm like this and I don't even drink! Maybe I should start?

Wii, I had dinner with a bunch of the players from a coed softball team I am on last night. One of the women was telling me about her Orthodox Jewish husband who she divorced 4 years ago. He just filed to not have to pay his child support anymore after 4 years. His reasoning, he is now with a man and his new companion doesnt make any money and he has to support them both......

Before you ask, no he is not Orthodox anymore, I believe he went out of faith...........

My point in that story is that she told me that for 2 years she questioned whether his choice had anything to do with her or not. She didn't figure that out really, she just got to a point where she didn't give a crap anymore what his reasoning was or what caused it. She said one night she was saying her prayers (as the orthodox Jews do a lot) and she had this epiphany. She suddenly became overwhelmingly clear that we each make our choices and there is no one to blame for those choices but ourselves. She told me that God spoke to her that night and told her to let it go and stop questioning herself.

Believe me I am not telling you this in questioning whether you have done this for yourself. More because it reminded me a lot of your sitch and a lot of the conversations we used to have in the infidelity forum. I believe we all sometimes think we are alone in our predicament, but we aren't, there are always others who share our experiences.

Ian

Thanks Ian, I have met some incredible people with stories re divorce and hard luck that they've shared with me because they want to help me. It's quite touching to see people sharing their most hurtful experiences in the hopes of helping me through mine. It can certainly be a difficult thing to deal with the choices our S's made about their sexuality but, honestly, I don't believe my W "changed" because of me (I use the "I not only turned her off M, I turned her off men" line cuz it's a good line!). I remember my Coffee Buddy saying "you must be in so much pain, this must be so much worse for you than if it was another man" and I said "I don't know whether it is or not, the thought of another man having happy time with my W really doesn't do much for me either! I don't judge her sexuality, that's a choice she has to live with. What I look at is the fact that she's saying she's not committed to our R, and that is what is important". I have no idea what my W's sexual orientation is and I don't think she really knows either, she was just a confused, unhappy person who found herself a mommy figure who would look after her every need. I told her, in a rare moment of rage, "you two are a pair of really sick bitches" referring to the dynamics of their R, not the sexuality aspect. Let's face it, this is a woman who said "we know we're co-dependent, so what!" What can you say after that?
Thanks for your encouragement Ian. Hey, is there a gas station near you where I could maybe lower the price of gas for an hour or so, just for you? Let me know

If I recall, the night I called W and her gf a "pair of sick bitches" I also may have mentioned that I'd tear her gf's heart out and stuff it down her f'ing throat if I ever saw her face again! I lied, of course, I never would have done that, I would have put it in the recycle bin. My lawyer also said that my comment may not have been the brightest thing I'd ever said. WTH does he know.

i think its hot!!!!!!

You think that's hot, Fig. You should see when I part the rush hour traffic to let my people go! Now that's hot.
Where the heck did I put those meds? I'm supposed to take two before bedtime. Oh no, I hope I didn't flush them with the wine.
Goodnight all.

Today for some reason, probably too much time on my hands, I spent some time thinking back through the last seven years. OMG did I live through a horrible, horrible time! I even ask myself "how the heck did you live like that?" Sometimes I forget because I'm so busy trying to go forward, but sometimes the pain jumps up and bites you in the ass! I'm OK, but it kind of knocked me for a loop when I went over that stuff. I guess I lived it because I had to, that's it. It was either tear my family apart or hang in there with every bit of strength I had. I did that, it didn't work and now it's on to the next step of my life, whatever that will be. I know the first year of separation is just getting through and setting the stage for something better. I'll just keep on doing what I'm doing and pray I'm on the right track! $\:\)$

wii,

I think we both mourn the loss of our intact families. I think kids never recover 100%. We're going to be with these women forever because we are parents with them. There is no "out" here. That's just one more of the reasons they are so short sighted. It's ALL in DB and DR. So plain to us. I don't think either of us misses/will miss never being right, never having a spouse who would good naturedly laugh and accept our shortcomings, or women that are so tightly wound it would take a sledgehammer to get a 10 penny nail up.......

Their reasons for leaving the family, AND THAT'S WHAT THEIR DOING are just not good enough, but I think your W and mine are both miserable in their own skins, and that will never change, whether your wife tries the other end of the salad bar, or my wife pays smarmylawyerboss back in trade for my daughters Jeep.

I don't want to be alone, but do not look forward to dating. I look at match.com occassionally and my stomach hurts. Ugh! it may come to that though. Who knows.

Brother,

I jsut read your post to me after I wrote to you. It's amazing similar. Hang in there. I think we're both two decent human beigs, and good stuff will eventually come our way again. I love the summer time, and we used to have great neighborhood parties and drink lots of beer and have a blast. I mourn that as well.