Well, I thought I'd move on over to Surviving, as that's what I'm doing now. I have been separated now for six months and there are no signs of any reconciliation. I don't put emotional energy into thinking about that cuz I'm too busy trying to build a new life. I have consciously moved away from W and "family" time, which means me, W and kids, although it is very difficult to do. Yesterday the girls told me they were going to a park with mom to feed the chipmunks (D14 was not impressed "Dad, don't you think I'm a little old to be feeding the chipmunks?). My first thought was to phone W and ask if I could join them, it would be a fun outing together but then I decided not to. W needs to know what it feels like NOT to have me around. The summer is a time we used to do a great deal together, it was truly family time. This summer it won't be happening and it breaks my heart but everything is NOT the same now! She needs to go through the realization that Whatis is gone. She made her bed now she needs to lie in it and really feel what it is like. Our family was torn apart because SHE chose to shut me out of her life and start up with someone else. I stayed for five years trying over and over to no avail. This summer will be tough.
I'm keeping busy and opening up spiritually. Weekly I attend a bible study, a prayer group, an aerobics class, and church sometimes twice on Sundays. I am making new friends and opening up a bit more. I've discovered the joys of small talk with strangers. I've always been personable but only in the "proper" circumstances whereas now I talk to everybody. When you're in survival mode it is so nice to feel that someone out there is actually happy to see you! The girl at the post office just lights up now when she sees me in the line up, greets me with a bright smile and says "see you again soon" when I leave. She doesn't do that with other customers. Why? Because I take the time to ask how she is, notice when she's sick and give her a big smile too. It's nice to think that maybe that little interaction brought a bit of joy to her day too. I notice this happens frequently now when people I've chatted with see me, big bright smiles. That's what surviving is all about, making healthy connections be they big or small. It's helping me to get through this. I'm trying to step outside my comfort zone and grow a little.
wii)))))))))
well, I'm the lucky (?) one to welcome you here, though I wish I'd be welcome you in piecing, but here we are, in another stage of our lives and still giving 100% and more, growing each day. I see what you say, about interacting wiht people, I was always a shy person, but truly, it is when you give that you feel richer internally. I have volunteered to be a "pal" to a person with brain injury, I can' wait, these are people who perhaps have lost their friends, their old life, and need a friend. Even at the training session I felt how blessed I am and how others have it so much worse than me, and what a difference I can make just by being there.
We begin here in SD with a drink, I'm not really a drinker but I can sure appreciate a glass of sweet sweet red wine
You are right, family time, though nice, is part of what it used to be, and W will now reap what she sow.
Heyya whatisis... welcome, I guess. It's definitely a different world here than where you've been. I'm glad to hear you're taking care of yourself and doing things for yourself.
Keep your chin up!
Julie
Hey Cat and inspiredjulie! Thanks for that warm welcome to the neighbourhood, did either of you bake me a cake or anything? Is there a rule book I should read? When do I take out my garbage? Do we recycle in Surviving? Oh, so much to learn.
Well, it's off to pickup youngest D from her class and then me and the two girls are eating out and going to an evening church service (yes, their dream evening has come true ;))
Thanks again for dropping by, let me know when neighbourhood BBQ's start, I'll try and fit them into my busy bachelor life schedule between bouts of activity and crying
i just make the pies!!!
welcome neighbor!!!!
I"m a green horn here, so I just bring the potato salad :P
And we are blessed with another day,good morn everyone)))))))))
Hey whatsis,
WELCOME!!! It all gets better with time and strength. We're here for you.........
cat,
Potato salad is good. Potato salad and pie, yum. What's everyone else going to eat?
Love,
Bethie
Welcome, whatisis!
You have no idea how great it gets from here. Remember, life is just as fantastic as you want it to be now. No one else has that influence.
I got steaks.
OK, so was it rude of me not to offer to bring something? Alright then, I'll bring the beer! SHEESH!
Thanks guys! I really do appreciate all those that have dropped by. I know it's not a place that any of us ever wanted to be but what is is. One of the most difficult things I find these days is those periodic times when I suddenly feel very anxious, weak and vulnerable. I might be having a really great week and then suddenly some little thing will set me off in an obsessive rampage. I have to keep in mind that I have been virtually living in a combat zone for the past five to seven years. Every day was a struggle to just keep going and make the best of a terrible situation and this is the fallout. My shrink said ages ago "Whatis you are living in a pressure cooker and most of the time don't realize it because you handle it so well" I have to remember to be kind to myself, allow some weakness and remember "this too shall pass". I remember a friend of mine (well, she was a friend at the time) said to me "Whatis, just remember that no matter how bad it gets, it will always get better" Wise words that have been echoed here in Surviving!
Can we grill some fish? Salmon maybe.
on a cedar plank!!!
with thyme
and lemon pepper
and
sea salt
yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
oh man! salmon, my weakness...
Great, now my spagetty lunch pales in comparison :P
mixed green lettuce salad
with red onions
sliced strawberrys
poppyseed dressing
roasted garlic baby red potatoes
grilled salmon
fresh apple pie
yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I am so here to eat!
Welcome whatsis! As you can see there is a lot of fun, food, and drinks to be had here.
Mmmmm. Garlic potatoes.
Mmmmmm. Pie. Mmmmm.
And pie.
I likey the pie.
ooooooh salmon...
canned salmon salad mixed w/ olive oil,lettuce, tomatoe,
cilantro, avocado & green onions
Salmon BBQ'ed with maple syrup! Yum-O!!!!!!
Hi y'all, just visiting with my ol' friend, Wii, and I see a party going on! Cool!
I am now feeling hungry ... think I will go get meself a li'l snack.
I see, Wii, you still have that awesome sense of humour that I love so much. Keep it up!
Hey BM,
Come back and party with us. I didn't realize we had a Wii. Wow this is going to be more fun than I originally thought!
hey whatis,
just cruising through looking in on old friends. you're doing well (really) and i'm so proud of all you're doing for yourself. you're in good hands with all these great posters here, as you know.
take good care,
BI
Thanks Big Hands, Chicki, Being Me, Beth, & Believing Isaiah. What a welcome here! I'm gonna break out the marinated tofu for this occasion. Well, I hate to interupt the party with DB stuff but here goes. I just had an interesting convo with my XW, an unintentional 180, I guess you might call it. I picked up D's and before we reached my apartment I'd had three disputes with D14, I finally told D we would discontinue our discussions as they were becoming ugly. I then phoned W at work to pass on some of the details, as I needed her input on a couple of these items. So I went on with W as I stood in the hallway of my apt so D wouldn't overhear and she gave me her 2 cents (wow, she might as well be a guy, she loves to tell you what to do!). When our convo ended I said I had just wanted her input and "I guess I needed to vent". She said "that's OK, I understand, we all need to do that sometimes" It occured to me that this was actually a nice reaction on her part, who'd a thunk! When was the last time that ever happened? It's also in a way a 180 for me, because W was always the one needing to "vent" (hour upon hour!!!) and I was the listener (she used to say I was a terrible listener, but it didn't stop her though!). So all in all it was a very nice and different interaction between us but... I think I'll divorce her ass anyway!
Now, back to our regularly scheduled party.
Just when you're starting to understand each other?
So whatisis..........
What do you make of this change in the dynamic?
I've gotta tell you in the big scheme of things 6 months is not a long enough time to be healed. I sense in what you write that your head may say you're done but your heart hasn't caught up. Anyway, there's no rush, right?
So maybe she was just being nice, or you just caught her at a weak moment, but I would take it graciously because it's all good no matter which way this goes.
A change of heart? Only time will tell.
Love,
Bethie
Wii,
Is a change of heart what you'd like? If it is, then keep on the path you've started with this.
If you're good with heading down the road away from the marriage, and all that, then, it really doesn't matter if she's having a change of heart.
Actually, since you can't control her, it really shouldn't change who you want to be anyway, should it?
I'm not reading too much into it guys. It was a little blip that was interesting, that's all. She sometimes used to throw out these red herrings and I'd think "maybe...", no more. I just appreciate pleasant interactions when we have them. It's a nice change from being a piece of furniture!
Thanks for you thoughts fellow Survivors
Agreed. It's nice to not be dirt. And as long as you appreciate that, I think you can't go wrong.
Usually, afterwards she finds some way to be a pain in the butt again. It's like she realizes "OMG I did something nice, I better fix that quick!" I'm hoping this time she's just too busy at work to remember to be mean to me!
i spit iced tea out of my mouth
how true is that
quick before they realize I did something nice
jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepers.....
Aren't you glad we don't have to live that way!!!
I'm glad! A good day used to be when she just ignored my existence. How sad is that!
I still think you should show her the "laundry mobile".
Tom
I'll show her the fuzzy dice hanging from the handle and tell her "these are what's left of my balls...thanks a heap, baby!" But then, they are still warm and fuzzy aren't they!
Are you sure you want her to have that satisfaction.
Maybe tell her that's the training set you used for her, but the big boy canooglies are much better and feel good when they hit your knees.
OK guys, new situation, different woman.
In a couple of weeks I will be blessed with the opportunity to interact with my former Coffee Buddy at a kids dance performance, oh joy of joys
Now, for those of you fortunate enough to not know about the Coffee Buddy sitch I will briefly explain. CB is a woman I befriended a few months before my W and I separated. Our D's went to the same daycare, same summer program, same dance classes...you get the picture. I'd known her for two years but had often avoided her because she seemed to like me, which is OK, but I was determined to save my M. I didn't want anything getting in the way of that no matter how much of a b!tch my W was being. Also to be fair, CB was doing nothing inappropriate, her face would just light up whenever she saw me and she'd beam me the most incredible smile, give me a little wave and sometimes we'd chat. We now began to go out together for coffee while their class was on. We began confiding in each other and, according to my shrink, formed an "intense emotional bond" as we shared very personal and painful experiences with each other. She listened to me, shed tears for me and validated me. I believed we had become friends (OK, I confess, I was also thinking that down the road I could boff her...in a R, of course. I wasn't all shiny and pure in this, I know!)She had a bf, who she rarely mentioned but I was in no place to be thinking R with anyone anyway. I was just enjoying feeling connected with her, something I hadn't felt with a woman for a long time. I was the perfect gentleman, treated her like the beautiful woman she was but made sure I did nothing to compromise our friendship. But, it was weird, a direct violation of the Parents Waiting For Children Handbook, Mom's don't hang out with Dad's...uh uh. I also wondered more than once whether this was fair to her, I mean my R was done, hers wasn't. Near the end we were spending three of the four available evenings each month together but, I swear, nothing was happening. Anyway, Once I separated from my W Coffee Buddy ditched me. She suddenly just cut off virtually all contact with me. At one point we had an opportunity to talk and I asked her if I had done something to make her uncomfortable and she replied "No, I just have chores to do, please don't think you've done anything wrong, you haven't" and that was that. The last time I spent with her was at a Christmas concert and we actually sat together (???) and talked appropriately to each other. It was nice. Afterwards, she returned to carrying out her unofficial no contact policy and I haven't seen her since. I also decided that rather than face her weekly drive by's, where she'd drop and pick up her kid without getting out of the car, I'd go to a church group instead. So, now XW picks up our D each week. I didn't need the weekly feeling of being unwanted. So in a few weeks I have to interact with her again. I'm a bit anxious. The way she disposed of me was rather hurtful and pretty extreme (a friend of mine said "she acts like you f@cked her"!) especially considering I was going through the worst time in my life and she was fully aware of it. But, I also recognize that we were maybe getting a little too intimate and she had a R to protect, I had to go. So, I think I'll just be polite and pleasant and talk about the friggin weather but stay away from any personal comments and/or questions. A long bathroom trip may also be in order. She's made clear that she wants nothing more to do with me, I'll honour that. Part of me is still a bit hurt but another part of me really does understand. Hey, how the heck was she supposed to deal with it? Was she to say "Hey Whatis, you know this thing we're doing that really isn't anything well, we have to stop doin it" How do you discuss that with someone? It was just a really bad time to have to deal with another rejection. I don't want to be mean, as it is not deserved but I also don't want make myself vulnerable to her either by acting the "friend". So knowing I'm gonna have to deal with her again in a few weeks (and yes, I will have to deal with her) stirs up all that emotional crap again. Does all this make sense or should I go back to the laundry room?
Why would you set yourself up to be hurt again?
I dont drink coffee.. Not again ?! ( minor head smack noise)
Hey Man.. stop that ! We have been there and done that, remember ? You should be teaching lessons on this instead of that.
Tom
I guess I just like to have a plan in place when I'm dealing with anxiety provoking situations. This sitch just makes me feel weird inside. I don't want to see this person but I kinda have to. I'll be fine, I know. I'll just tell W that CB's gay and maybe she'll hit on her...oh sorry, that smells of vengeance, doesn't it!
How fitting your recent posts are to a talk I am giving at church next Sunday! I will be talking about God's kindness, and remembering it, and learning from it, and how we see it in our lives. Sometimes, we find ourselves so wrapped up in our own life's pain (such as your W), that we don't even realise we are being unkind (we might think we are being assertive, for instance, or just being honest). Below, are a couple of quotes I found.
Here is a quote from Mother Theresa: "Be kind and merciful. Let no one ever come to you without coming away better and happier. Be the living expression of God's kindness: kindness in your face, kindness in your eyes, kindness in your smile, kindness in your warm greeting. In the slums we are the light of God's kindness to the poor. To children, to the poor, to all who suffer and are lonely, give always a happy smile-Give them not only your care, but also your heart."
A children's song:
I want to be kind to ev’ryone,
For that is right, you see.
So I say to myself, Remember this:
Kindness begins with me.
2 Peter 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
Anyway, I am not judging your W (from all the reading I have done, this lesson applies so much to myself so who am I to judge anyone). Who knows why she is the way she is, or why we are the way we are? As your name says, it is what it is. You handle it all with such humour, and patience, that you really inspire me, Wii.
Take care.
Thanks Being Me, great to hear from you! Humour is a great weapon, isn't it...she can't take that away from me!
Btw friends, I won't be going on about the Coffee Buddy thingy, I just thought it appropriate to explain the background when I'm thinking about how to deal with the upcoming joyous event! I just want it to be over! So don't worry Tom, I ain't goin there again. Besides I'm hooked on the Muslim lady now! I noticed today she has American plates on her car and her sticker is a year out of date. Ooh, a risk taker, I like that
smile and wave wii, just smile and wave.
Sort of got ditched like that too, but online, we too were forming a too close for comfort emotional bond and he just dropped, without saying bye, that hurt. So, I sort of know how you are feeling, chances are she is too scared/shy to tell you the truth.
So, unless she is frank and comes up and tells you why she cut off the friendship, dont' say a thing and dont' expect anything.
Muslim lady? tsk tsk, you rascal
with or without a berka (is that how you spell it???)
I believe it's burkha, but I may be wrong.
It would seem to me that, although you were hurt and rejected, CB is a stranger, and should be dealt with as such. Obviously, there was an emotional bond there that she wanted undone, for whatever reason. Reasons don't matter at this point, and neither does her perspective on it. It's how you feel comfortable and what you want for you.
But, it sounds like you've already determined that yourself, judging by your words.
Thanks Big Hands, fig and Cat, I certainly have no plans of bringing anything up with her! It was a very strange situation from the beginning and neither of us clarified what the heck we were doing together we just kept doing it. We never planned anything but would just wait for each other and go from there. Last time I saw her at christmas I was uptight too, can you imagine walking into the recital to find your XW and CB standing together yakking away like old pals, and they barely know each other. Whew, fun wow! But, after XW ditched us, CB opened up conversation with me and I decided to just act as I usually do with her, like a friend. This time I don't think so. It will be polite but with no references to anything we may have previously discussed, we have no R any longer, we are now strangers. Smile and wave, good advice.
Hmm, does Muslim lady have a Burkha, you ask? No, but you should see the Korans on her!
but you should see the Korans on her!
That's just funny!
Geez. It is not CB's job to manage your emotional welfare. She does not owe you an explanation. She simply stopped an inappropriate R which, strangely enough, you are again acting as if was not inappropriate. It was. She knows it. You know it. I know it.
If you have an Affair-like R, and one person ends it, that person made the right move. As I feel certain you know, it such cases it does no good, and probable harm, for the person who leaves an A-like R to try to take care of the person dumped. There is no point in explaining it. The R is over. It didn't work for her. Period. Quit moping around like a victim. Geez. Geez. Geez.
Try putting some of your victim feelings on STBX where they are at least a better fit, and then try getting rid of them altogether. You are a free adult male who chose to live the life you have led. It isn't up to others to make your choices feel good for you.
Yes, I know you've heard this all before from me, I'm just stunned to see you all wrapped up in the CB stuff again. I'm sure you can figure out a way to avoid unwanted interaction, which seems to be the appropriate move.
Yup, at times it keeps coming up. I like to put things in little boxes and make sense of them but often the more you try to do that the more mixed up it makes you! In reality, the little box thing is not real life anyway. Things just can't be wrapped up so neatly although I keep trying. Once I get through this little social occasion, these thoughts will subside. I guess having to deal with her makes me feel very vulnerable. It's all part of the trip I'm on, I guess, and the CB stuff is mixed in with the XW stuff. I question my judgement, the boundaries I set (or don't set) with woman etc. And yes, OT you've said it all before, I know but there are going to be times when all that stuff just rises to the surface again, hopefully less and less! I'm trying and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Sorry I'm annoying you!
Just an add on, Yes I actually have been avoiding CB. I have made plans each night I may have had to see her to avoid it. I'm actually proud of making that decision. I saw it was making me feel bad and changed the situation, I took control. So, I'm not a lost cause yet!
Well if everything has a payoff, and that's the reason we do what we do, what would the payoff be for you?
CB obviously broke it off because she's married and possibly started having inappropriate feelings for you. At first in reading what you wrote I couldn't figure out what she was thinking to put herself in that position, but I'll give her credit for in the end doing what was right.
Although I may give advice, I don't believe in telling people how to live their life. We all have to chart our own course and any mistakes that come from that are ours to bear, but I do have a few questions. Who's idea was this is meet again after all this time and why? You said that you were going to meet but stay pretty neutral in conversation. So what's the point of this meeting?
Hi Beth, firstly, she isn't married but has/had a bf. I only see her now at kids concerts cuz our kids dance together. We used to drop the kids at dance class and began to do coffee together while they were at their activity. I guess we both put ourselves in a situation neither of us normally would have. It ended as it inevitably had to, I guess. Here's my new strategy, I accept that the day of the concert I will feel some anxiety, stop planning silly strategies and move on to more important things. You know what, my guess is that we will interact and get along just fine together. Lets face it, intermission is the only time I will have to interact anyway....and the bathroom is only a short walk away if needed as an escape!
Thanks for your thoughts.
OT, I've been thinking about your post:
"Geez. It is not CB's job to manage your emotional welfare. She does not owe you an explanation. She simply stopped an inappropriate R which, strangely enough, you are again acting as if was not inappropriate. It was. She knows it. You know it. I know it."
I don't hold her responsible for my emotional welfare but I do believe that we all have a responsibility to take actions that will cause the least harm to another. Certainly, there are far worse things she could have done to me, no doubt but I just can't imagine how cutting off virtually all interaction with a man who has put no inappropriate pressure of any kind on you nor has he made any inappropriate comments or anything else is necessary. There was no reason to be so seemingly insensitive. She also knew full well that my W had been shutting me out for years, so this was a sore spot for me yet she decided to take this extreme action anyway. The sad thing is that if she had of just said "Whatis, I'm uncomfortable..." I would have said "then lets not do it anymore". Honestly, I would have. But I also know it's difficult to approach someone with that kind of honesty. Initially, she didcut out our coffee times by not waiting for me any longer and then returning right at the end of class for pickup. We would chat about the weather in the parking lot and go home. I sensed she was putting a stop to our outings and did not ask for any further times together. I took the hint. If she wasnt' comfortable then I would not put her in the position of having to say NO. So I don't know why she suddenly began eliminating me entirely from her life. It felt hurtful and unecesssary. it smacked of the kind of behaviour my W inflicted on me, the "you're of no significance to me" approach.. That's how all this gets wrapped up with XW. Now, I don't believe you are saying that CB has no obligation to be gentle with someone she knows is already going through great pain, you're not saying "hey, it works for me and that's all that matters, he's on his own", are you?
Now was the R appropriate? Who knows. Was it an A? No. Going for coffee and talking about intimate things does not make an A, it sure could lead there though. I had warm feelings and thoughts of romance down the road but I was not planning on making any moves on her and would have refused any gestures on her part as long as she had a bf. I know you have always, from the beginning, seen this as an A and I respect your viewpoint. It certainly was two people playing with fire and she, who had the most to lose, ended it. I respect that she did what she needed to protect her R, i just don't like the way she chose to drive home her message. Also, I think my hurt is OK to have, it keeps me thinking what I would do different next time but if hurt takes over my life and dictates how I deal with life and love then it becomes a problem. I think it's also Ok to feel some anxiety at the prospect of seeing her again in a social setting, it's pretty normal. it's not a rehashing, a whining, a "poor me, how I've been hurt" reaction. It's normal human anxiety in a difficult situation. Remember, this is a person who said "when I went through this (separation) there were people there for me, so I can be here for you" I trusted her when she said that (2 weeks before she ditched me)and something sure went wrong, didn't it. I also don't see how asking others for their input on how to deal with her in that setting is inappropriate.
Lastly, don't worry I'm not moping around etc. I have a pretty full life and I keep myself busy. I'm meeting people and taking some pretty healthy steps to move forward. I just get stuck and have to shift gears once in a while.
Anyway, those are my thoughts for what they are worth! Thanks for making me think OT
I should also mention that one of my problems (in my eyes anyway) is that I often excuse other peoples behaviour, such as XW by being too understanding of the sitch they are in. With STBX it was "she's so stressed, she's depressed, she doesn't mean to be this way" blah blah blah and with CB it would be easy for me to say "she had a R, she was in a difficult position" blah blah blah but it might be good that I'm not so willing to do so now. I'm thinkin I'm worth more.
To me it sounds as though you feel entitled to something from CB.
It was a brief, inappropriate R. You have acknowledged it was inappropriate. She ended it. She did nothing cruel. She stopped contact with you. End of story. She has no duty or obligation to continue to serve as your drug of choice during your emotional recovery from your separation.
As for this: "I just can't imagine how cutting off virtually all interaction with a man who has put no inappropriate pressure of any kind on you nor has he made any inappropriate comments or anything else is necessary."
Well, hogwash. The romantic/love/sex fantasy vibes were seeping out your pores through your fingers onto the screen here. I have little doubt that she was quite aware of your interest in her, whether you voiced them or not.
Regardless, the R didn't work for her. She ended it. It is really OK. The "cruelty" you point to is her failure to meet your emotional needs.
My XMC told me that when people change, they tend to over correct for awhile. So perhaps your lack of holding people accountable for their behavior when you don't like how they treat you is swinging to the other extreme. If so, it will probably settle out after awhile.
You don't NEED to explain CBs behavior to yourself. She chose to stop interaction with you, that is all you need to know. She doesn't need an excuse. She doesn't need to make amends for not being in your life the way you would have liked her to be.
The biggest problem here is that you were BOTH playing with fire. It was an unhealthy and inappropriate R. You were using her to bandaid. No doubt it has caused you both to feel some pain. But somehow, in your mind, this seems to be all about you and her purported ill treatment of you. Step away from the victim role. It doesn't suit.
You made bad choices. You don't like their result. Own it.
"You don't NEED to explain CBs behavior to yourself"
"The biggest problem here is that you were BOTH playing with fire"
"You made bad choices. You don't like their result. Own it."
"the R didn't work for her. She ended it. It is really OK."
Agreed, let's sign this baby off now!
"The romantic/love/sex fantasy vibes were seeping out your pores through your fingers onto the screen here"
I'm gettin hot just reading this OT, maybe Muslim lady will let me push her floor button tonight with one of my seeping fingers
But in all seriousness, I appreciate the time you took to reply, you make some valid points. I also have sometimes wondered whether CB has cut off all contact because even a two minute chat in the parking lot keeps me in her head and she don't want me there. Who really knows and I guess I never will but, as you point out, I don't need to either. At the concert I will just be nice then smile and wave. It'll be fine.
OT, you being CB's biggest cheerleader on the board (
) I'm wondering how you think I should deal with her at this concert? She will most likely approach my family, speaking to my STBX and my mother, toss me a social smile and I can either choose to engage her or not. Should I just be a statue? Should I introduce some sizzling weather talk, should I walk away declaring the need for a bathroom visit? or should I just skip intermission and stay in my seat looking like a real chickensh!t? The possibilities are endless! With luck she'll buy a ticket to a different show. hey, maybe she'll bring her bf (fat chance)and we can get to know each other. What do you say, OT?
Could you also.. um.. maybe just tell her that Muriel and I said "Hi" ?
I think I need to get on the dusting around here btw.. I did manage to get the laundry done.
No babies at this time.. update later.
Easy does it there WI ! All is well.
Tom
Hey Tom, I went to bible study tonight and I think I'm not gonna sit beside the Pastor anymore, cuz if him and I keep it up he's gonna get kicked out of his own bible study! The group was discussing tender love versus tough love and the question was "is there any reason that you wouldn't tell truth to someone?" and I said "Yes, whenever she says she wants the truth, you tell her and then she won't talk to ya for two days afterwards" the Pastor says "Wow, you only get the silent treatment for two days?" I said "Hey Pastor, what should ya say when she asks 'do you think I'm fat' " He says "nothing, you just turn the TV up louder" yuk yuk yuk. It has to stop!
You know.. I havent been to Bible Study for a long time.. I should probably do that ? Hmmm...
I dont think we could do a window seat though.. if it got breezy we would have to do.. well recite other passages, I think ? Something about ashes to ashes.. dust to dust.. Or that song by Kansas.. Dust in the Wind ?
Something like that, I guess..
Tom
Jeepers Tom , You're not "digging up" MY Muriel are you?
Hmm, sounds like another one of those inappropriate relationships to me (and I should know)!
She is really nice ! I dont know what you did not see in her there GB ?
Tom
Anyway.. This Thread is titled " Growing Pains ", eh ?
My buddy Wi.. is having his and I thought I would chime in a bit.. and try to help out a little bit.
You see that CB was simply part of that process there ? It is awesome btw.. and something you just feel and enjoy ? So new and so different from the stuff ? The stuff will kill your spirit and tell you not to feel anymore.
It is a wonderful thing when you get out from under it. Isnt it ?
One caveat.. It has to come from YOU.. not from anyone else. That is the tricky part.. atleast that is what I think I know. YOU have to do it on your own. Nothing else can do it the right way.
That is all.
Tom
Gran(i)t(ed), she was the silent type. Was never accusitory and never ran around, so I would say she was indeed stable as a brick.(Well , at least shaped like one in a plastic container). And of course she was always at my side (sometimes in the brief case), but she was always Exhibit "A" with the big yellow sticker. Never complained about the lunch or dinner menue, always the inexpensize date. But she just never opened up!
I just don't know anymore Tom, always a puzzle hiding behind the furnace in the basement,a least for a while .I think the really big thing was the family - not really wanting to be associated with her, but wanted her $s, and that sort of lowered my heat for her. Not that it made any difference in her state.
Ah, Muriel, such sweet memories. What a woderful relationship compared with others.
Muriel, sweet Muriel, RIP.
I'm not sure whether to be hungry, aroused, frightened, or just cover myself in chocolate sauce. So, maybe I should just shut the h@ll up and get back in my cage to watch.
I wish you guys would stop talking about Muriel as though she's just some cheap piece of ash!
Tom, you are so right about it having to come from within. I think that is also OT's point, it is not any woman's responsibility to maintain my sense of manhood or nurse me through my separation, that's my job. You are also right when you point out that CB was an amazing experience that actually made me feel a connection with a woman that wasn't fraught (is that a word?) with negativity. It was the wrong time for both of us and probably for me best that it did end. I also need to recgonize that she went way out of her comfort zone to be with me, that says something about me, doesn't it. I need to concentrate now on developing further a healthy sense of self that is dependent on no other R than the one with myself and God. That's a start.
Ah, the CB saga continues, 'eh!?
At the theatre (if she approaches your group), just smile pleasantly, ask her how she is, and leave it at that. If she does not, then smile if you catch her eye ... no need to wave.
That's muh pennies worth.
You've sure been through the wringer, Wii, and have come out the other side a stronger person, and I am glad that you expect more of others in your dealings with them, and realise you are worth being treated with dignity. Continue being your own best friend.
Well Being Me, CB is a part of what Tom refers to as the "thingy". It's all wrapped up together and it gets pretty confusing trying to separate what is truly the individual situation and what is the thingy! OT's right in that CB was my drug of choice and that is why it was probably good that she ditched me, I have to now take care of my own hurt and pain in a way that will help me develop as a person and not as someone dependent on another to do that for him. We all know that just ends up in another crappy, been there, done that R! CB was wonderful to talk to cuz she never said "why don't you do this...." instead she would say things like "you must be in so much pain right now" She went directly to the feeling versus the practical aspect of the sitch, which is so tempting to do. She saw ME, not the sitch. That meant something to me. I want to be able to hold onto the really nice things she did for me despite whatever the appropriateness of the R was. Once I said to her "You don't have to listen to me but you always do, we haven't known each other long enough that I have any right to expect that of you, but you do listen and you do care, that means something to me" I meant that. It was not the R that was wrong, it was the timing and the context. So enough of memory lane, thanks for checking in and, oh yes, for caring!
Wii,
Lol, I'm no fan of CB's. In my mind, she was the one who was acting poorly with respect to her current R, and her judgment about how to interact with a male in great pain is questionable. But, nevermind that...
Given she stopped the R, it would be VERY inappropriate for her to come up to you, your STBX, and your mom. Hopefully, she will behave better than that. In that case, there is no problem. There is no reason for you to initiate contact.
However, apparently history suggests she may check up on you.
If you are confronted with interacting with her in a social situation, how about simply,
To CB: "your D did very well, excuse me."
To mother: "Say, I've been wanting to ask if ...."
Or,
To STBX and mother: "See you back at our seats in a couple..."
That IT IS !!
The Thingy.
Since my D.. I have taken the idea of surrounding myself with people and relationships that are positive and healing yet diverse and also a sense of learning... about myself and also about the people I have met. Many of these peeps have been female.. some are not.. however, for the most part I sense that I am making or have developed some pretty strong friendships.
It is very nice to hear from someone acceptance, empathy and understanding about me. The genuine kindness and caring !
Equally, it is just as validating to be able to do the same (for me) for someone else. So long as we are on the same "level".. if that makes sense to you ?
I have been able to avoid the "one way street " syndrome.. which pretty much summed up the 15 yrs of my M. It was a give and take.. but mostly a take from the other side. And obviously, I am not blameless there.. as I let the taking occur. Much like your sitch.. but in a very different way.
YOU will begin to meet many CB's now .. each one in a different manner will help you understand the things you need to understand about yourself some in a positive way and others in another way.. your history.. and your present. Take care not to latch on to any of them too quickly on an emotional level... just listen, feel, and learn for a while ?
Enjoy the feeling of getting off the coaster and moving on to the bumper cars.
Just me..
Tom
OT, you are right CB showed terrible judgment indeed. The last thing a beautiful, single woman wants to do is latch onto the pain of a man going through a separation. It don't take no genius to figure out where that will go!
I think that when I told her it touched her "thingy" which was still hanging around since her divorce. She went through Hell, and to hear someone else, who she obviously liked, was about to go through it too touched something in her thus the tear filled eyes and deep empathy. At one point, I thought she had decided to leave me alone and I had actually reluctently accepted that would be the case but just then she approached me unexpectedly and ended up guiding me into the park for a long walk. After a months break she began suggesting coffee and, in fact, it was mostly her near the end. So she was in a mild way the pursuer near the end. I was apparently more aware of her R than she was. I think something just suddenly hit her between the eyes and she realized this was going to a bad place, felt guilty and maybe embarassed and thus ditched my ass in panic. So I'm glad to hear you aren't a fan
, neither was my shrink who had some pretty harsh words about CB's behaviour. Shrink also said that I was giving CB a pretty clear message when I arranged my evening so that I would be elsewhere and nowhere near her when the kids class ended. I was saying I'm not taking this treatment from you, I'm not waiting around, I'm outta here! That was me respecting myself. Why watch someone drive by you each night without so much as a glance or wave if you can be doing something else, so I'm doing a group bible study...it's workin' for me. Again, I don't have some big hate on for CB, she fell into something she shouldn't for her own reasons. I hope that she really looks at the R she's in and decides for herself whether this is where she wants to be and if so, takes better care of it in the future.
Thanks Tom for the input, your support has always been there for me and I empathize with how it feels to have been the giver year in and year out, but I like you, have learned that you must receive to make a R. My STBX wanted to get over and over, better and better but couldn't see how giving of herself will actually create the love she so desperately needed. You must give to actually feel love yourself. Wow, that's deep, eh!
Btw, my above post sounds like I'm laying it all on her, uh uh. I played my cards to get that attention too and I loved every bit of it. I sure didn't walk away knowing "the bad place" was possible. So, just to clarify!
You know.. others may disagree with me and that works.
CB is and was a positive experience in your life. You are a good guy there, Wi.
Keep it going and hang in there. The positive part of your journey is just beginning.. I think.
Tom
Ya know Tom, my best friend says the exact same thing!
Ya know Tom, my best friend says the exact same thing!
Umm, I meant about CB, not me being a great guy
(although I am!!!)
Anyway, I just got off the phone with STBX to arrange some after school pickups for D10. She has a school obligation three evenings a week in May and it's kind of unfair to expect D14 to wait around that many evenings a week to walk D10 home. I suggested that on my weeks I will pick her up from school and meet D14 at STBX's but I was not willing to do it on STBX's weeks. I suggested that STBX arrange with D14 to pick up D10 on two of those evenings as I have them Tues nights anyway and will do pick up then therefore D14 is being asked to help out 4 nights in May. STBX started going on about D14 "sure we can ask her but she never remembers anything anyway...blah blah blah" Three times in the convo she tossed in negative digs about D14 and I held my tongue. Instead of saying "I don't like you talking about D14 like this..." which I have done before, I just said nothing...silence until she returned to the topic at hand. My silence certainly indicates that I am not going to join in on the bashing and STBX knows it, let her embarass herself carrying on. Such a negative woman. She also began carrying on about D10's math skills. D10 got a poor math test result and apparently is not so able in division these days, so STBX has to start carrying on about her multiplication skills (the kid got A's in Math last term) and how "we" haven't been making sure she's on top of things blah blah blah. STBX loves to blow things way out of proportion and I would usually argue the opposite opinion because she was so over the top. I also get really bugged when she starts the "we are bad parents" crap. But again, tonight I said nothing...silence and then said "so anyway..." She just irks me so much when she does this stuff but I bit my tongue...I guess that's good rather than creating a blowout. usually when she gets going like this it's because she's tired and worn out from her job, which is practically all the time anyway! So that's it, over and out.
perhaps she likes the sound of her mouth yapping and loves to just yack yack yack, I am learning the art of stop repeating myself and to shut up if what I'm going to say are empty words.
Oh yes, STBX loves to rant especially about D14. Sadly, she knows she does the yapping but just won't stop herself. D even told her recently that she would like her to stop ranting at her. She can't just say "I don't like it when you..." she had to go on for 10 minutes and, of course, at some point gets a snarky reply from the kid and then she goes into full ballistic mode by taking away priveledges etc without thought, just vengeance. Afterwards, of course, she returns the priveledges and says "I was just angry when I said those things" Ooh, problem solved! Give me a break. But, that's her trip and I've coached D on how to deal with these times as best I can. STBX knows her issue but just won't walk away. We had a huge argument one time when she said "If D14 would just stop doing this then I wouldn't have to act this way"! I informed her that we are the adults in this family and "I hope that we hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct than we would expect of a child her age" Well, that went over real well! Her attitude is "don't tell me to take responsibility for my own actions" Hey, I think that's one of the reasons we aren't together anymore! Well, enough of my rant, thanks for checking in Cat.
Great strategy w/STBX's negativity. Another is to say, "oh, I gotta go, let's finish this later. Bye."
Thanks OT, I think it is good when I begin to recognize old patterns and just refrain from taking part. STBX also may think that because I vented earlier in the week to her that it's open season on D14, which it most definately is not! In future, I will vent elsewhere, I will still discuss the issues involved but will not express my frustrations to a woman who may use this as justification to continue her own negativity towards D. No way.
Hey, did anybody notice the part where I told W that I was able to pickup D10 on MY week but was not willing to do so on HERS. That was actually quite a 180 for me. I almost caved (and she wasn't even pressuring me!) but held on. I suggested instead a way that D14 could help out but I said "it's not fair for me to have to spend every night picking up kids, I have things to do too" W had said that she found it very difficult to leave work at a time that would make picking up D possible and I suggested D14 help out. I think I did good! Bottom line is I finally didn't take on more than my fair share.
Good for you buddy. That's something I struggle with every day.
And much to the frustration of those who love me, sometimes I'm good, others not so much.
((((((wii))))))
It soesn't sound like she is a person that would ever back down. Sometimes it can be more frustrating to someone who acts like that for the other person to just not engage. Whenever that happens to me, and it has, I refuse to play their game. Let her wallow in her misery without dragging you down with her!
Love,
bethie
Beth, sometimes we just have to give up trying to fix the person and their behaviour. My STBX knows her issues but, for whatever reason, refuses to do anything about them. So it is rather pointless to try and change her, it's all up to her (as it rightfully should be!).
Big hands, I too suffer from do-too-much-itis! For years I got into the habit of automatically doing whatever was needed to "support" W in whatever she was taking on, and often that meant giving up my own needs...bad bad bad! I saw it as being a selfless, loving H who was willing to go the extra mile for someone he loved. Unfortunately, I think it gave W the idea that I wasn't important, my needs were secondary. I constantly gave in ways that reduced stress for her by not forcing her to deal with tons of day to day crap, I took care of it. Too busy with work to come home and cook? I'll do it! Can't pick up the kids? I'll do it. Too busy to grocery shop? No prob, I'm there for it. Finances too confusing and taxing? I'm your guy! I did it all but I think part of my selflessness was also making me feel secure. Hey, if I do everything then she NEEDS me. Well, it created alot of resentment in her, she realized she wasn't pulling her part of the load and had no energy to repay me (her culture is real big on repayment). Sure she got lots of work done but resented me in return. I remember one time she came home and carried on about how sick she was of hearing her co-workers go on about what a wonderful H she had, she said "nobody ever notices the things I do" Wow, you've got a H that other women would kill for and all you can do is complain. I also fell for the "I'm so fragile" act, she always seemed to be just one task away from a breakdown, so I worked my butt off to make sure that one task never arose. Yet, despite all this, I discovered that losing yourself in the romantic notion of love being sacrifice is a losing proposition. Sacrifice must go both ways to be benefical to a R. That's my take anyway!
Hmm, I haven't seen Muslim lady the last few days, too bad cuz I had my prayer mattress ready to go. Damn.
Bad news, guys. I think I'll have to put my prayer mat-tress away, my Pastor says me and Muslim lady is just not Kosher. Well, I'd sure like to know who died and made him Buddha! I hope he comes back as a snail in his next life. Holy reincarnation, Batman! I think I'd better stop now...for all our sakes
Tonight I had one of those moments where you say "Hey, I did real good!" It's not really much but I sure notice the changes in myself these days, it gives me hope that I really can make a new life for myself and yes, sometimes I doubt it. My D was invited to a friends this afternoon and I picked her up in the evening. When I arrived at her friends I was invited in by mom, who is divorced, and normally I would say "Oh, I really have to get going" but tonight I decided what the heck let's go for it! I think the low cut top may have had some influence on my decision
I was invited to join the family (her mom and dad) for dessert, so I did. Dad then took me for a tour of their garden, a nice man btw. I was at my social best, I must say... it kind of stunned me! I said to her "D10 tells me you work for XXX" I then knew the building she actually worked in and told her how. She asked me where I worked and where I was living now etc. It was a nice visit and I think I made a good impression on people. I chatted it up about weather, local news etc., it all just kept moving along very smoothly. I didn't feel awkward at all. As I said, I'm usually the guy who says "can't stay, gotta run", so this was one of the 180's I've been pulling lately. It felt good. I also spent an hour and half sitting with this woman a few weeks ago at a sporting event our children were taking part in. I'd never really had any more than brief conversations with her previously, but when I entered the gym she waved and made a space for me beside her so I thought it would be polite to go over and sit with her. I didn't mention this on the BB cuz I really didn't think much about it, she seems like a nice lady (especially when she's wearing the low cut top!)and she did pull the old "I think I'm getting fat" line. Ya know, I just can't fathom why so many women seem to think I'm the guy to say this to???? Will I ever know how to reply to this?
Well, I remained quite sociable on this occasion too. So I'm just seeing some nice changes in me, a more outgoing style of dealing with people and actually taking advantage of opportunities to interact with women. No big deal but a nice observation. Oh, and my kid had a nice afternoon too! Later DBers.
I dropped the kids this morning at their mom's and decided to take advantage of the beautiful morning so I headed down to a pond I like to visit. When I got there I noticed a young newly married couple posing for their wedding pictures, he was white and she was chinese. I watched them posing, laughing and feeling so joyful. I remembered how 17 years ago my W and I posed for similar pictures and how I thought nothing could ever tear us apart. We were forever. As I watched them I felt a deep sadness inside and tears started streaming down my cheeks. I don't spend a lot of time in sadness but sometimes at moments like these that just kind of spring out at you, I feel immense pain. I walked away and stood by the pond and let the tears come for a few minutes, then dried my eyes and carried on with my morning.
This too shall pass.
Now, just to show Whatis is still in the game and did not spend his day bawling, I'll update you on my day after the tearfest. I walked into a little town to look for a Birthday present for D10. I found that the jewlery boutique D loves sells gift certificates, so shopping was done! I had a nice lunch at a patio restaurant, finished my walk through town, then bought some oysters and other ingredients for a new recipe I'm trying tonight and soon I'm off to an evening church service. So the day had some enjoyable moments, weather was beautiful.
This morning when I dropped the girls off, W met us at the door and I walked in to drop off some papers and her response was "I just vacuumed, you know" oops, forgot to take the shoes off! I then thanked her for lending me a copy of her finished income tax. She paid someone to do it and I borrowed it to make sure I didn't screw up any deductions etc. I've always done our income tax but never as a separated man. I said that it helped me find a few deductions I might have missed. She says "I should be charging you then" I'm hoping that was supposed to be funny but with her who knows. It's way too much to hope for a "I'm glad it helped, no problem". She then reminded me of a task I still needed to do...so I hit the door as fast as possible! Ahh, always a pleasure to interact with the happy lady! But hey, if she wants me to hang around then she can be a little personable and if not I'll continue to find the door, no prob!
Later Dbers. It's church and forgiveness time!
I hope you will post about that recipe. I love oysters!
Glad you turned the day around.
Hi ya Trip !
I still think you need to bring out the "Laundry Mobile" there Wi... just me, again.
Tom
This surviving stuff really sucks! It's the highs and lows that just kill me. This morning I'm crying as I watch newlyweds because it reminds me of my wedding and tonight when D says mom wants to talk to me on the phone I'm moaning in my head "I don't wanna talk to her". Turns out she says "I can't remember what I wanted to tell you" and I almost replied "you were gonna say how much you missed me and you want me to come home"...but I didn't, even though it would have been damn funny, at least to me it would have been. Well, tomorrow is another day and another rollercoaster ride. Yippee!!!
Trip, Oysters really are the best, aren't they!
Tom, I have to be very selective about using the "laundry mobile", it's just not fair to lay that on any woman who isn't prepared for it. It could cause a lot of heartache and I don't cause heartache, I just absorb it! Just me...ha ha ha
ummm, honey, what are you doing watching newlyweds?? I'm sure it is clobbering time at some other channel, or some dude fixing something ( just teasing)
Ah, the rollercoasters.... hate them too wii, hate them too. I try to minimize or to not relate when I watch romantic stuff like that. Eventually you'll be able to watch the same scene and think"yea, it was nice when I got married and looked like that...um, what should I have for dinner?"
Moving right along wii, moving right along...
Thanks Cat, today I feel really good. The rollercoaster is on an upswing. I just got back from a Yoga class, which my body sorely needed! I had a strange experience at work today. A few months ago I began being friendly with a new employee, she worked in a different part of our organization. We seemed to hit it off and enjoyed chatting with each other. Suddenly she became quite distant and stopped interacting with me much. Now, the Coffee Buddy fiasco taught me that when a woman pulls away, leave her alone! So I did, dropped it like a hot potato. Today, I was walking down the hall and she was coming towards me, as she reached me she stepped in front of me blocking my path and said "how are you?" I stopped (as if I had a choice) and replied "fine, thank you and you?" she said she was "fine" also. So we stood there looking at each other for a few seconds and I finally said "see ya" and started to walk away. I was kind of stunned at this blocking my path and sudden interest in making contact and not sure what to do with it. She followed me down the hall and started asking "so how was your weekend, did you do anything interesting?" So I stopped and chatted with her for a while about our weekends and other things, which used up my entire break. Weird. Why out of nowhere is it time to chat up Whatis? Beats me. Then later in the day she was chasing me with a spray bottle...and we won't go into that. Tomorrow I probably won't exist again. I just don't get women, this "thingy" is a pain in the ass, Tom!
It will get easier. It just does. Of course, you can help the easier part along but some things just need time.
For instance, when I was married part of my wedding sucked and it was the example used by family and friends to learn from. It took a couple of years for me to be able to see a wedding without bawling my eyes out and feeling bad that my wedding had sucked. At least in some way it did to me as the 22 year old that I was. Anyhow, I did get over the sadness and got into the swing of actually being married and thinking, well, the wedding may have sucked but the marriage is more than that. Of course, time now has shown otherwise but that's water under the bridge. My point is somewhere in that mess, I was able to see bridal couples and feel excitement and happiness.
And men too can be just as confusing. I don't know what your coworker issues was/is but ride with it if she is flirty, relax and just have some fun.
And...the oysters???
and Hi back at you, AT!!!
Awwww Shucks !! Thank You Trip !
I would stay away from oysters at the moment there Wi.. I mean if you couple that with the "Laundry Mobile" there could be some sort of an incident, eh ? Is this the "plant lady" that you are referring to ?
Like Trip says.. just roll with it. Dont worry about it... think about it.. or do anything ? There was a reason we were all married at one time btw.. and it was not temporary insanity !
Women are awesome, mysterious and beautiful creatures, I think ?
Tom
I like the way you think, Tom!!!
Yup, it's the Plant Lady! A very mysterious creature indeed! Trust me, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. It's just all these weird behaviours I haven't had to deal with or understand in so many years. I was way too busy dealing with insanity at home to notice other women and their mild oddities!!!! Hey, did I mention that I've just found out that on the weekend parents are supposed to drop their kids at rehearsal and WAIT in a waiting area. That means Coffee Buddy and I will probably be stuck together for half an hour at least, and neither of us knows anyone else. Whooppee, let the good times roll! Maybe I'll bring a board game for us to play...I just can't wait. Btw, I've stopped wringing my hands over how to deal with her cuz what is is and besides, what could possibly happen...she can't stop talking to me again, she's already done that one! I'VE GOT THE POWER.
(well, at least that's how I'm playin' this in my mind!)
It is funny really once you get through most of the "stuff", isnt it ? Quite a beautiful thingy really.
Sort of one of lifes wonders.. at least for me ?
Tom
PS:
No oysters yet there Wi !
I have found that these things or events seem to work out differently then I think they will. Often for the better than not.
Yes! You do have the power!
Oh, get off the oyster kick! It was just scrambled eggs with oysters, bacon, Shitike mushrooms and some parsely all mixed together. Throw in some salt and pepper too...now get off my back people!
You know.. there is nothing wrong with the MR's.. but do not feed the teens oysters.. whatever you do, eh ?
It could cause all shell to break loose.. you know ? Even Muriel agrees with me ! The scrambled eggs seem to a staple on the DBB.. so that is okay, I think ?
She keeps asking me to play my Kansas LP.. not sure why though.
Tom
Women are awesome, mysterious and beautiful creatures, I think ?
They sure do have their moments, huh?
I had a little fun with Plant Lady today. At work they have started an employee exercise class at lunch hour and there is a sign up sheet posted. This morning I saw Plant Lady coming up the hall, with no spray bottles in hand, so I felt it safe to call her over, and pointed to the sign up sheet and teasingly said "I don't see your name here, how come? I think this would be wonderful for you" She went into a big song and dance saying "I'd really like to but I just have too much work to do, I just can't do it". She was so busy explaining that she failed to notice my name wasn't there either. In the afternoon I ran into her and I said "I just want you to know that you missed your exercise class at lunch today and a a lot of people were very disappointed not to see you there" Her eyes got wide as saucers and she said "You didn't put my name on that list did you?" I said "Well, you did express interest, didn't you?" She started kind of jumping up and down and said "YOU...YOU didn't, I told you I couldn't go!!!" (and no I didn't sign her up!). I said "I don't think this is really about me and my behaviour, it's about you missing your exercise class today and feeling extremely guilty about it and that's why you're getting so worked up" She looked at me and starting smirking, pointed her finger and said "if I find out that my name is on that list, you are so DEAD!" She walked away and I blew her a big kiss. It was all so high schoolish (nah, probably more juvenile than that!) but it was kind of fun too! Is this how you go with it and enjoy? Do I trash her locker next? Dip her pigtails in an inkwell (I think that's way before my time though). Just asking. Hey, maybe I'll just leave her alone, women seem to like that!
She should carry the spray bottle at all times now.. I think, ?
What am I going to do with you ?
Tom....
and stay away from her Partridge Family and Guess WHo Records, eh ?
