So the thread that never dies, died....blech I hate thinking of titles for these things.
My D14 has left, she went to Colorado to be with W's family (sans W) for the week. I also give back S11 tonight at 8pm.
This means that I am officially bachelor city this week. No kids at all, I believe it may have to be a party week for Ian.
Who the hell am I kidding, basically what it means is I can get caught up on the laundry, get the house clean, and maybe, just maybe have time to go out a few nights.
I have actually had a good couple of days here. My D14 stayed with STBX Wed. and Thurs. nights and of course ranted about them arguing the whole time when she came home on Friday. My response to her was simply, you two need to learn to talk to each other or your both gonna be miserable 3 nights a week.
D14 told me that mom smacked her in the face on wednesday. I asked her why and she told me that she said the F word to her mom. I dropped it at that point cause if she said that to me, it would have been a full on mouth full of soap accompanied by a belt across her asss. So I told her that she should be more respectful and try and behave around mom as she would any other adult. I told her that she has to make an effort to avoid confrontation if she doesnt want it when she is with mom. That it is one thing if mom goes off on her for no reason, but if she asks for it, too damn bad.
There is going to be an adjustment period for D14, so I can not allow her to play me against her mom as she has in the past. I am making her suck it up.
I was happy to see that D14 has improved her grades in the last week. She has 0 missing assignments and has bumped all of her grades up at least one grade point. Maybe she is getting it....
Anyway, looking forward to a very peaceful week. Getting excited about Memphis in May. Feeling pretty good about my life today. I hope that I can stay focused and keep the momentum going.
Ian
It's good to see that at least some things are improving with D14. ie: her grades. That's wonderful
Maybe as her and her mom sort through their issues they will have a stronger and closer relationship.
Glad S11 is doing well.
Enjoy your bachelor time!
Thanks Trip, and i hope that this time with her mom will enable the two of them to develop a relationship of some sort again. I for one do not know a teenage girl who does not need her mother in her life.
Ian
Hey since no one ordered a drink - can I have a margarita - on the rocks - with salt -- pretty please
Good to see you posting Ian and you sound great! I miss our chats.
Ian,
You're a heckofa guy! I think you handled D14 incredibly well and you just may be able to nudge her into accepting her mom as she is. What a feat that would be!
Take care, SD
Ian,
You have a difficult task there keeping the peace between Mother/Daughter. It really must put you in a awkward position at times. I've always backed up the ex’s as far as disciplining goes, but I've never had to play peace keeper. I respect the way you are handling it under these circumstances.
glad to hear you are feeling good)))))))
I hear you about the "bachelor time", my d5 is asleep, and I have toilets to scrub and have to work out, no vegging out! lol, too many thins to do.
Good thing you stayed objective with your D14, kids love to push their limits.
Hey Ian,
I almost forgot to wish you a Happy St. Patricks Day thought...
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never point in the wrong direction!
Sounds like you are speaking from experience, Astimegoeson!
Sounds like you are speaking from experience, Astimegoeson!
It's true.. They're always after me lucky charms!
I have not posted on my own thread in quite some time. I have been doing a great deal of thinking and have reached a point where this chapter of my life needs to end.
For a long time these boards meant something to me and lately I have lost sight of what that was. I fought the moderators on their decisions and have come to realize that maybe they were right about a lot of things.
While I do not agree with cutting off outside of boards contact, I do believe that some of the focus of these boards have been lost. Divorcebustings website was designed to encourage people in our situations to work on ourselves and trying to improve our relationship skills in order to possibly save our marriages.
I look around and see a lot of socializing, and unfortunately I have to look upon myself as well and take responsibility for the fact that I am as guilty as anyone about having social use for these boards and not always being focused on their actual intent.
I am not speaking to anyone in particular, so do not get your panties or tighty whities in a bunch and start the typical drama crap because I am stating my feelings on things. I am merely at a point where my life needs to move forward and the boards more often then not frustrate me rather than helping me.
For those of you who are on here for social reasons and not for the purpose intended, I would encourage you to evaluate why you are here and if it is not to give back to those who need help, then maybe it is time to walk away. The meaning of this sight is very clear, sometimes we lose focus on that as our circle of friends in this site grows and we forget our purpose here. I wonder how many of us actually still pop into newcomers and give back to our humble beginnings?
There are far to many incredible people on here who have helped me in the past to name them so I will merely say thank you to those of you who have supported me over these last 19 months. I have come a long way since the bomb dropped thanks to all of you. I wish all of you luck and happiness as you move forward with your lives.
Ian
Well stated, and seconded my friend! Best of luck but then the work you put in tends to forestall the need for very much luck...
See you in a few weeks-
"Drive by" Kev
Ian, I think if you need to leave, then Godspeed, I wish you well.
Lots of my friends who used to post (IamTJ, Daisy StrongOne) they all stopped posting when they didn't need the board anymore.
Not sure if a grand proclamation or farewell is necessary though because I have also seen lots of people say goodbye and then come back because they really still need the board. But, if you truly don't need it anymore, than more power to you!
Those of us on "surviving" are not here to save our marriage. Our marriages are over and we are moving forward with our lives. Part of that moving on thing is about socializing. Some people don't have too many people to socialize with in their hometowns, or the people they know don't understands what they've been through and so they get some of that interaction they need here.
Even though we are recovering from heartbreak and mostly okay with how things are now, sometimes we hit a low point and we need help. I am more than 2 years out from this nonsense and I still get into funks that I need help pulling out of. And where do I come at 1 am when all my friends are asleep and I'm feeling so sad and lonely? I come here to vent or moan or troubleshoot.
In the in between times, when I am feeling fine and dandy (which thankfully is most of the time), I come here less often and when I do visit the boards, I come here to be light hearted and support others and joke around. Sure sometimes it's just down right silly, but I like to keep this connection because it has meant a lot to me and the people are true friends. I feel very sure about why I need the boards and why I still come here. I see nothing wrong with it being a social venue in this particular forum.
Perhaps you will reconsider, perhaps you will fade away, whatever you decide I hope you are happy and well and take good care.
Love,
A
Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.
You have my number.
(suck it blue!)
Call anytime, I love hearing from you, and good debates.
Move.
Scott, if you are still reading...what happened to Sally/Morgan?
And thanks for dropping by on occassion. Best wishes.
Sorry, that was a bit random...Ian, I apologize.
Love what Althea said.
Good luck with everything, Ian.
Ian
I've noticed that myself - that I have really not been on much anymore. I think part of the socializing for us now is that we've come quite far. Not saying we're perfect, but I think those of us in this forum have realized a lot about ourselves and that we're not horrible people.
Anyhow, I wish you well and miss chatting with you. Smooches our lil Jewmuffin
I second that.. Me too !
Tom
Just when I thought I would slide in here and follow along......
sofar....posts of strength over time. I admire you. I have called it quits here a few times and, yes, still find my way back. I understand your theories, but, I DO believe that the 'socializing' IS a part of moving on and acceptance. It's not all that bad.
I agree with you that...perhaps...those of us that came thru this..that are STILL going thru it....should remember our immediate post bomb roots and help some others.
I hope you stay too. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for those days when there was no sun.....and there you were.....and then there was light.
Man to man...stay strong....and live again. Your friend, Frank.
so quick update said I wasnt going to anymore, but sometimes.....you just do.
Had court today, I didn't go.I signed the parenting plan and dropped it in my lawyers inbox with a note asking her to "handle" it for me.
One more step and I am officially divorced. I am feeling:
Relieved
sickened
free
like a failure
sad
happy
scared
like throwing up
Like having a celebratory dinner
like drinking
So a bit up and down I would say. I also completed my bankruptcy filing Monday. That was a difficult thing to do as I have always prided myself on making my way and taking care of my responsibilities. It is also a huge relief in ways. It also hurts giving up the home that I practically grew up in. My house was my grandfathers home, and now it will be leveled and a new one built in its place. It was also the home that I remodeled for my wife, new kitchen, new floors, new master bath, and new appliances. A lot of memories, not gone, but misplaced.
that about covers it. Thanks to those of you who have checked up on me.
Ian
Ian--
It is good to hear from you. I have felt all of those things, and the closer I get to the D date, the faster they seem to cycle through my head, leaving me exhausted and spinning.
The house thing sucks. I hope you took lots of pictures; you will appreciate that someday down the road.
How are the kids?
--Donna
One more step and I am officially divorced. I am feeling:
Relieved
sickened
free
like a failure
sad
happy
scared
like throwing up
Like having a celebratory dinner
like drinking
So a bit up and down I would say.
Been there, done that. I still have those feelings. Sometimes i still wonder how it all happened so fast. (but it was never fast enough for the X.) And then I feel like i have been going through it forever. I was talking with a friend tonight who is recently seperated and she said "I can't wait til I am past all of this." I was thinking me too. LOL. I don't really have sadness anymore, mostly agitation and disbelief that I was ever married to that alien I see now!!!
Throwing up can be a good thing, btw.. been there done that..
Nothing wrong with that my friend.. PURGE ! If needed.. Eh ?
YOU will be okay.
Tom
sorry to hear about the house Ian)))) I too agree with Donna, take some picts, I regret not having picts of my childhood home which was leveled also (it turned into a funeral home,yuck!)
Pressing the "speed" button for you, hope you able to pass this pre-post D filing moments and that you regain your strenght, hugs)))))
Pressing the "speed" button for you, hope you able to pass this pre-post D filing moments and that you regain your strenght, hugs)))))
At this point, I am simply tired.
The battle is close to over and I am feeling worn out.
Maybe I simply need a nap.
I knew ahead of time that the end would be messy. I knew there would be 2 or 3 situations where I would feel the burn. Even knowing that it still hits you and there isn't a damn thing you can do to stop it.
I feel like that guy in a Fish called Wanda, I see the steamroller coming, I even go so far as to mock it as it slowly approaches, and only when it is time to move out of the way do I realize that I am stuck in the cement and it's gonna hit me no matter what I do.
Other things in my life, well they are a little difficult for me to get into right now. To be honest I don't understand all the decisions that I am making and feel like I am somewhat shooting from the hip on some things.
I have spoken to a few of my board friends and have gotten some solid feedback. It isn't helping because to be honest I am feeling a wee bit selfish right now and want what I want. Regretfully, it may hurt in the end, but I am not ready to take a good look at all that right now.
I know this is confusing for some, to others it will make perfect sense. So hang in there folks, could be a bumpy road ahead.....blech.........
Ian
Regretfully, it may hurt in the end, but I am not ready to take a good look at all that right now.
Shame.
I think right now is when you should take a big long hard look at it.
B/c in the end it may not be ONLY you that is hurt. I don't think anymore people should be added to the list.
It is not confusing, di !... YOU need pinched !
Come on , Ian ! Grab my hand.. and get out of that.. the stuff, eh ?
Tom
See BND, you missed that I didnt say it was only going to hurt me. I get that, just having a hard time pushing through it right now.
Grabbing a hand isn't that easy right now Tom. It's all very complicated.
Like I said before, I just need to rest. I need time to simply regain my feet under me.
BND, I know, believe me I know. I heard every word you said to me. I get it. It's just trying to grasp it all that I am struggling with. I am not moving, I am just standing still instead of doing anything. Understand?
I know it sounds stupid, but I have to understand it before I can do anything and right now I don't. I am working doubles for the next 2 weeks and that should keep me fairly preoccupied. My kids leave the next week for Colorado for a month (which I am dreading) and I will have some time to work all of this out. My philosophy is, keep talking. Work it through and keep talking until you understand what it is that you are doing and why.
By the way:
You still have some of the chosen people in you don't you.
Ian
whatever it is, Ian, I hope that you do work it out.
Where there's life there's hope - It's always darkest before the dawn - when one door closes another one opens............
All very simple but very true.
Ian,
You like so many of us have been walking around for so long with this cloud hanging over your head. Getting the divorce is nothing like we think it will be. Yes it's sad, and yes it will be painful, but with it also comes control. That's another thing that you probably haven't felt in a very longtime, and believe me, when you get it back, it feels so good! A couple of months from now you'll feel different about things than you do today!
Good luck Sweetie.....
Love,
Bethie
It's always darkest before the dawn - when one door closes another one opens............
These phrases make me pee. sigh. Not being disrespectful to you Bethie my sugar.
I know they are true.
I don' t know what the deal is with the muffin here.
I am reading, and I am trying to understand.
Understand? (cough)
I used to understand that when Ian, was feeling confused or blech. He used to plan, and strategize. You know all that work related stuff you do, that you bring to your everyday life.
What I am reading here now, is someone that is taking the easier route with things.
I think that it pays off in the short run. Sure we have all seen it here time and over again.
I think you yourself were the number one advise giver, when people were losing their focus.
I remember, b/c I use to swell up with pride, b/c my muffin was helping someone stay focused, and you were helping them make the better decision. A decision that in the long run, saved them and others some heart ache.
I know this, b/c the people that you have helped, used to get in contact with me and share with me about YOUR words.
Your words, that helped them maybe one more day. Keep on track.
So what I am seeing now, is a role reversal, if you will.
I see now that you may be the one that is need of some guidance.
Hence, Bnd saying Shame. Hence Tommy pants reaching out his hand.
I read what you are saying about you needing the time to think things through.
I hope that is true. I hope that you will not end up choosing, the path of least resistance, and end up choosing the path that will make you proud.
I hope that b/c of what Carrie has done to you, you don't in return say F this it's Me time , and I am gonne do what I want no matter what.
So yes, please think long and hard. B/c that attitude you are displaying is the same attitude that you have been shown, by somone you loved/love. That same attitude that you are showing is that same attitude, that we have all encountered by the spouses that we loved, and it has left a mark. It has left a mark of hurt.
I used to KNOW that you were not that way at all.
Then I read this.
I have spoken to a few of my board friends and have gotten some solid feedback. It isn't helping because to be honest I am feeling a wee bit selfish right now and want what I want.
Seeing someone you care about unwind slowly, is painful.
Especially, when some just want to help, but when the response is I'm fine, more than once. People tend to back off.
I hope that you really do take the time and make the better choices.
Be that person, that you helped me become. Be that person, that no matter how many times I just wanted to say F this, you stepped in and kept my judgement, faith, and morality a float.
Be that person, that helped me make it thru nights of tears and confusion and pain.
The feelings of getting a Divorce are 1 million. They are like a puzzle jumbled in front of you, and to put them together, is exhausting.
I know that feeling. I think most people here that are now Divorced know that feeling.
Let that feeling run it's course.
It is normal.
It is part of the healing process.
Have faith.
Be good in all that you do.
TTYL
First things first, thank you for the words Bean. I can still see the right path, just having a hell of a time staying on it.
I said I am tired, I am. Not in the general sense, more in the fighter sense of the word. I have not been getting my rest between rounds and the cuts are all over my face and impairing my vision. (I know you love boxing metaphors
)
Some of you will read this and understand, some will not.
I am tired of being a single dad. The work is never ending and the successes are not as easy to come by as the one's when it was two of us. I am not saying I am tired of my kids. I adore my children, they are and have been the reason that I was able to keep fighting. I am simply overwhelmed at times with all that it entails to be a dad. It is not an easy job and the pay is hard to measure at times.
Lissie you are dead on about how I do things. I maintain that management style in my home as well and I do so much better with measurable results and obtainable goals. The weeks that I have my son, I am physically worn out by the time he goes home on Sunday nights. Every other Sunday I feel the guilt of being relieved that he is going back with his mom. I used to hate when he went back to her, I used to hate facing the fact that he would not be with me for 7 days.
It seems like all I do is clean my house, do laundry, pay bills. It seems like there is no time for anything else in life. It feels like I am so fricken old. I hate this feeling.
Hope told me that I am doing some things in my life because they make me feel younger. She is dead on. They do make me feel younger, the give me energy and a sense of youth.
Here comes the flat out honesty part and many of you know I kind of struggle with that sometimes. I am dating a girl. She is significantly younger than I am.....significantly. I do not feel like it will ever go anywhere, I am however enjoying the energy that comes with dating someone younger. She knows my situation, I have been as upfront as possible about us and what I am looking for and not looking for. I know that just saying it doesn't mean that a connection won't be made and someone could end up being hurt by it.
And that ladies and gentlemen is the big white elephant. It sits out there and makes me feel like I have two separate lives. I have one week where I am a full time dad, and then another week where I am a free man and do as I please. It is kind of conflicting because I am very big on stability in my life and this is about as unstable as things have been for me.
My son knows nothing about it, my D14 is smarter than that and knows something is up. She says that I am a different person from week to week. I cling to it because it is like having time to forget about everything. Every other week I have 3 days to myself, I have time to date and have fun. When I am doing this I don't even think about what is going on with STBX, I do not allow that part of my life to exist during these "free" times.
It is very difficult to see right and wrong right now. I read this:
I remember, b/c I use to swell up with pride, b/c my muffin was helping someone stay focused, and you were helping them make the better decision. A decision that in the long run, saved them and others some heart ache.
And do not know what to think about it because I am like a horse with blinders on right now. The big picture is out there, I just cannot see it today. Maybe I will tomorrow....maybe not.
I am going to bed.... I need sleep.....
Ian
Some of you will read this and understand, some will not.
I am tired of being a single dad.
Totally understand this one myself. Hang tough my friend.
Here comes the flat out honesty part and many of you know I kind of struggle with that sometimes. I am dating a girl. She is significantly younger than I am.....significantly. I do not feel like it will ever go anywhere, I am however enjoying the energy that comes with dating someone younger. She knows my situation, I have been as upfront as possible about us and what I am looking for and not looking for. I know that just saying it doesn't mean that a connection won't be made and someone could end up being hurt by it.
And that ladies and gentlemen is the big white elephant. It sits out there and makes me feel like I have two separate lives. I have one week where I am a full time dad, and then another week where I am a free man and do as I please. It is kind of conflicting because I am very big on stability in my life and this is about as unstable as things have been for me.
It's about frikin time you came out of the closet Ian.. LMAO!
How in the hell is this causing instability in your life Ian? So what, your a single (part-time) Father and dating a younger Woman. Good for you kingpin! Your not only a Father, but your a Man and it's NORMAL.. OK!
((((Ian))))
Great to hear from you, but sorry you're having a tough time.
I wanted to add one more thing Ian. You know, it's not our purpose in life to be idle. What is "stability" in our life anyway? Expecting all things in our life to remain constant and stable, will end in disappointment. The world changes and dictates to us, not the other way around.
There is a time and a season for everything. Seize the favorable opportunity for every good purpose in your life. The time to die is fast approaching. Embrace the change.
"And that ladies and gentlemen is the big white elephant. It sits out there and makes me feel like I have two separate lives. I have one week where I am a full time dad, and then another week where I am a free man and do as I please. It is kind of conflicting because I am very big on stability in my life and this is about as unstable as things have been for me. "
I so understand this, but try to see it as having variety not instabilty.
I get the feeling you are being too hard on yourself as though you feel your halo has slipped? maybe I am wrong.
This may not go anywhere, but for now it's giving you some much needed respite. Nor does it mean you are both going to get hurt.
Honesty is the key here,not a white elephant.
Be kinder to yourself.
Be kinder to yourself...
There is a time and a season for everything. Seize the favorable opportunity for every good purpose in your life.
sofaraway....
I love your honesty. And I love the way you help people on the board.
I understand feeling tired of being a single parent, being tired of feeling old. And loving the free feelings and the times when you get to feel younger and 'have fun'.
You know I came here 2 R's after my divorce. I really hated having all the responsibility...no break, money problems....my ex stopped visiting and taking the kids. (I dated a guy 9 years younger than me for awhile.)
After a few years, and because I'm slow, it took a few years.....it just becamse my joy. Not money problems, I still hate that. But the rest I enjoy....and I think its because of the relationships with my kids.
It will come. You are a good man. And you will take the high road, even if you slip sometimes.
echoing Lissie:
Have faith.
Be good in all that you do.
and I know you will.
Ian-
We know that the optimal situation is to have two committed parents raising their children together. And we remember what that felt like--it IS so much easier. Everything that was done with two sets of hands now has to be done with one.
But you have found a reason to smile again, get in touch with a forgotten aspect of who you are. You are both adults (I hope!!), and have gone into things eyes wide open. Have fun. Its not a matter of feeling older/younger, but experiencing different parts of you. I remember a glipse into that a few years ago when I went on a training where I was easily 10 years older than everyone else, but just blended into the group for work and social things. I felt like I took a trip in a time machine.
Both "lives" have value, but I know how hard it is to manage them. Me, I would like to have some time for that other life, but only get 4 nights a month. I want more, but hate being away from my kids, so that will take precendence for now. When they are older, I might be able to tolerate more time away, and then I hope the schedule might change--we'll see.
Are you feeling guilty for adapting to the schedule as it is right now? Because it is ok to be ok...
Or are you feeling less ok when it is your turn to take the kids, than when you are on your own?
Either way, we still all know that you are a good man...
((((Ian)))))
First off Donna, yes we are both adults. She is 25 and I am 39,that is a significant age difference.
My dilemma is that I feel guilty for valuing "me time" and am not used to feeling guilty when it comes to my children.
I talked to Kev for a long time today. He has a very different perspective on things and eased my mind a little bit. He gave me some insight as to why I am feeling bad. It is IMO because for so long I have fought this battle to have my children with me. I have not ever wanted time away from them. Now that I actually am grasping that this is what my life with my kids will be from now on, I am actually craving that alone time.
The girlfriend came over tonight. We talked a lot about how I am feeling and she seems to understand. She says that she loves that I am so into my kids because in her culture most dads simply walk away and do not look back and the mothers are left to raise the children. She has no kids, but says that if she ever did she would want a man to fight for his children as well.
She told me that in El Salvador it is not uncommon for a man to have kids with 2 or 3 different women and to only be a father to the children of the current woman that he is with. Pretty sad........
I still crave the day when my kids come home to me, so it isnt that. However, when they are with me at some point it switches to me craving that time alone and with the girlfriend. As I said, it just doesnt feel stable to have different feelings on different days.
Someone posted, ATGO I believe, that it is ok to not have constant stability. I guess I just didnt get that. I love the stability of married life. I miss that feeling that everything is flowing on a track.
We also spoke tonight about my kids and she understands that I do not want them introduced to anyone new in my life until I am sure that it is a long term thing as I do not want them hurt getting to know someone and then having them removed from their lives. She understood that as well and told me when and if that time comes, we will talk about it then.
The one odd question that she asked me was if I am over my wife. I told her, "Yes and no, I am over wanting to be with her but I am still hurt by all that transpired to end our marriage." I also asked to not to mistake that for any desire to be with my STBX. I guess in retrospect it isn't that odd. She has every right to ask that question of me as I am sure it scares her dating an older guy in the middle of a divorce with three kids. Jeesh.... what the hell is she doing with me
Ian
You are killing me btw !!! Oye !!
Welcome to my world, buddy !
Tom
Splain Tom.... killing you? why?
I am not sure I can be absolutely candid at the moment.. but we are paralelling, eh ?
My boys just came home from their weekend with their mom.. and we are off to the beach next saturday for a week ,.. just them and me. Should be interesting.. in the last 72 hrs.. I went to hear a band with friend A.. was invited over for a pool party with friend B.. and went to a bday party with friend C..
I wonder if I should get another sports car !!?? Anyway..
You are an adult and it has its privileges you know ? Dont feel guilty for living life for YOU !.. when you get the chance of course..
That is all... Now I have to do the laundry.. again.. sigh..
Tom
Anyway.. all that time and effort I spent on dealing with the mental health issues of my x.. well.. it is spent on me now when I can do that..
I am getting back to the social person I was before the M.. before the R.. . finding Tom again. I like it btw.. I think I have landed a gig as this band's manager btw.. What fun ! I think I will need a plaid jacket or something ?
Just me.
Tom
I gotcha Tom.... you know it's just a matter of when the hammer dropped we fought so damn hard and many times forgot to live for ourselves as well. The change, all be it a good one, is hard to get used to.
I think of it as more of a meat tenderizer ?
All is well.. just watch out for the marbles..
Tom
You know it took me forever to figure out why you always offered Ty pretzels.....
Now I have to figure out marbles.....jeesh
ah my Ian!!!!
You know what someone said to me last week? They are sad for me, they can see it in my eyes that I am tired. Tired of doing it alone.
It's true - I am.
But as always, the Peanut is first. I know that feeling tho Ian.
What would be the issue of letting your kids meet her? Or will you do that after the divorce is final? Ever? I have seen bigger age differences.
Smooches!!!
I like doing it alone btw.. jsyk..
Tom
First off Donna, yes we are both adults. She is 25 and I am 39,that is a significant age difference.
When I decided to start dating, my first date was 24 years old. I'm 46..
I'm now exclusively dating a Woman who is 4 years older than me and there doesn't seem to be to much difference in our interaction then it was with the 24 year old. Well, except maybe for their focus and attention, I think the younger one had ADD.
Anyway, age is just a number! It's your frame of mind that narrows that difference. Don't be so stuffy, stagnate, structured, or "stable"! Just have some fun with it and keep an open mind.
Your a Father first, your kids are number #1 on the priority list, but your also human. You can be both a Dad and a single Man.
Hi Ian!
I'm sorry to see you're hurting and struggling a little...
My dilemma is that I feel guilty for valuing "me time" and am not used to feeling guilty when it comes to my children.
I think this is a typical feeling for those of us trying to put our lives back together. And it's also an issue I beat to death with my C everytime I go to her. The thing is, as per my C, your kids benefit from having a happy dad. And you are entitled to your 'me time'... not only that, but you are setting an example that they should place value on this when they are in a marriage and/or have kids. We do need to put our needs first at times and that doesn't make us a bad parent. Quite the opposite actually. But I HEAR you. And I FEEL that too. And my C knows we're going to talk about it frequently b/c it is a tough issue.
Hope that helps. Chin up!!
Every other Sunday I feel the guilt of being relieved that he is going back with his mom. ...
It seems like all I do is clean my house, do laundry, pay bills. It seems like there is no time for anything else in life. It feels like I am so fricken old. I hate this feeling.
hon, I work full time and I come home at 6'ish, somedays, after 2hrs of being with the kids I eye the clock and hope it is bedtime :P
It is draining, parenting alone is hard (my s10 is punished double this week with no dessert nor wii). No need to feel guilty, you are just a human being doing the job that was meant to be done by two people. This is relatively new ground for you and you will get your groove back...but what with the D and all your energy has been depleted pretty fast.
We'll find our balance and patience (parenting alone) because it can and has been done, we are green horns for now.
"me"time is crucial, in it one recharges the batteries, we remember that we also like to *gasp* do stuff that doens't have to do with bills/cleaning/upkeep of the living quarters.
I am sorry for you Ian, really I am.
But... you are a grown up.
And with that comes huge responsibilities.
And NO none of this is fair.....
And find ONE single on this website who was treated fairly and wasn't given the short end of the stick....
And yes I also know what it feels like to be so overwhelmed with "kidstuff" and with being in charge and how wonderful it would be to just escape from it all.
You fought your arse off for those kids for a reason.
Yes you also deserve a break, and a chance to unwind and to relax
But there are other ways to do it.
Sorry, no high 5's or pats on the back from me.
To thine own self be true, even if not to everyone else.
(((((((hugs)))))))
Ian,
For all intents and purposes, a single Dad here too.
Of course you may know that I will soon be married again, though we will not be living together for some time - because of promises made to my youngest son.
For the past 21 months I have parented my now 16 year old by myself. I think in that time he has spent a grand total of maybe 7 days with his Mom. All the cleaning, all the meals, all the laundry, all the schedules that have to be met.
And it does wear you out. And you do reach the point where you would like to have some me time.
I also know that I wouldn't trade my setup for what my ex has for anything in the world.
When Deb and I started communicating, it was difficult for me to take a couple hours from my evening and devote them completely to talking with her. I felt like I was taking away from my son.
We talked about it. Of course he's a little older, so when I got to the point of explaining to him that I had feelings for this person and that I needed some time to build that relationship with her, he pretty much gave me the "no problem" response.
You never stop worrying about the line between father and man. My sons come first right now, because I have to be sure that they know they have a parent who loves them and is always there for them. But Debra comes first too. She and I wrestle with this language all the time. For her and I to have the future we want to have, we need our time together as well.
When we were married it was not a problem. The relationship came before the kids. By the time the kids rolled around we could reasonably take on the mantle of parental responsibility and not feel as though we were sacrificing our love relationship in the process.
Now we're approaching this from a different direction.
But in the same way that we made kids work when they came into the marriage, it is possible to make a relationship work that is brought in to our family life.
And even if you're not talking about the relationship, but just about "me time", I still think it's possible for both. Feeding yourself is not neglecting or shirking your role as Dad. And you know as well as I do that feeling like you're ready for a break is not a bad thing. It's reality.
I have no fear that you would ever place your kids second in your life just to feed your desires. Perhaps what you're dealing with is the new reality of your new life.
New is just new, not necessarily bad.
Blessings,
Bill
Sorry, no high 5's or pats on the back from me.
I didn't expect one from you BND.
There are other ways to do it. However, I am not inclined to end this way just yet. Maybe in time, not exactly sure yet.
I would never ever complain about the time spent on my kids to you. You are amazing and I have no idea how you do what you do. I certainly hope that didnt rub you the wrong way, I have a great deal of respect for you and consider you a superparent......cape and all.......
Ian
Bill, thank you and I will respond later when I have more time.
Ian
More time ?
Come on.. You are only doing the laundry, washing dishes, vacuuming, cooking dinner and the phone fell into the toilet just as your youngest was flushing it.. all at the same time !?
Can I substitute liquid soap for laundry detergent btw ??
Just wondering...
Tom
Can I substitute liquid soap for laundry detergent btw ??
Just wondering...
oh man, I did that and ruined an acre of good hardwood floor.
So.. that means No, eh ?
Thanks for the tip there ford !
Tom
Actually yesterday was laundry, dishes, and vaccuming. It is nothing new for me however, let's just say that my STBX was not very domesticated and I took on the majority of the houselhold tasks.
I am working a double tonight. I came in this morning at 5am and left at 3pm. I came back at 5pm and will be here until 1130 tonight. Then back again tomorrow morning at 5am. Ahhhhhh... the good life.
So, no time to think, I have tobacco that must be boxed and distributed around the country. Crappy thing is it is Grizzly chewing tobacco, I do not care for it at all. Next month, Levi Garrett Chew yummyyyyyyyy
Hey, your work schedule is starting to look a little like my own. Welcome to the sleepless day and night club!
You CAN use dish liquid like ivory in the washing machine (use much less, use vinegar to get the suds out if you used too much)....however........DO NOT use it in the DISHWASHER
It's hard being a single parent....time wise and chores gets better.........but the boundaries Bill was talking about are hard.
It's a different priority set, the kids have to be the priority at least while you're raising them. But you have to have boundaries so you can have a life and relationship yourself. If you're the custodial parent, it's hard to find the time and space to build a romantic relationship.
And you live in a glass bowl. Your kids see everything (most) that you do, how you behave, and know how to push all your buttons...and you don't have the buffer of the other parent around.
It's not for lightweights
Well now...
Dude - the fact that you are examining things like this means you are doing OK, I think. You didn't ask for this situation, but guess what - you got stuck with it. You are a GREAT dad, but that doesn't have to be mutually exclusive from dating, having relationships, or even doing "adult" things in general - as long as you ultimately keep the priorities straight, and don't forget that the kids have to come first when push comes to shove. I have seen nothing to indicate that this (misplacing your priorities) has happened. You've had a rough couple of years here my friend - go and enjoy yourself. Like I told you the other day - it's not like you're wishing that your kids weren't around at all, just that you're just looking forward to an occasional break to spend time on some grownup activities. This doesn't seem unusual or wrong at all, and in fact is something that pretty much all of my friends who are parents do on occasion.
Finally, the age difference thing is, to me, very much a non-issue. the dynamics may certainly be different than someone who is closer to your age, but guess what - you're both ADULTS. In addition, you've been VERY up front and candid with her about where you are, which would be something you should do regardless of any age difference - and it speaks volumes for how you are handling yourself as you proceed down this new path in your life. So, like I said - go enjoy yourself - you've earned it, and you deserve it.
Kev
go enjoy yourself - you've earned it, and you deserve it.
Ian,
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having fun or with going out on an occasional date.
I do not want to come across as holier than thou...
Perhaps it is your attitude of self entitlement and selfishness that gets to me.
the...now it's your turn to have fun...you deserve it!!
You just had your Divorce finalized and you already in a relationship with someone.
She will be the one that gets hurt.
Can you not just have time to be Ian and be by yourself and learn how to live life without having a significant other in the picture?
You have been through a tremendous ordeal.
Take time for you.
Learn how to breathe again.
No pun intended...but when you are trying to juggle as many things as you are trying to do, eventually you will lose your balls.
Ian....first..letting you know that you are not alone:
-I had my first court appearance yesterday
-I am close to bankruptcy (and I am a physician)
-I love my children just as you do
Healing comes in many forms my friend. What that is to you will be different for me or bnd or sgct. The important thing is to be honest with yourself and if you enter an R with someone else, you are open with them. My counselor once told me that kooky phrase that 'you have to kiss a lot of frogs.....'. You need to meet people, learn and see what others are like out there. You also need to stay in touch with yourself so that your 'radar' beams don't lock back onto another piece of kryptonite.
Get some rest and take that downtime to recuperate. Your ups and downs are normal and expected (if you don't think I have moments of regret for filing, you're wrong). I'm not a big book recommender (well, sometimes I am). Check out A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle. It helps.
FIB
BND-
I don't think you and I see eye to eye on this completely, so I wanted to respond to a few of your points - no disrespect intended though...
the...now it's your turn to have fun...you deserve it!!
I just don't see anything wrong with him having the right, and yes, feeling entitled to enjoying himself in this respect AS LONG AS his other priorities are straight, which I think they are. Particularly with regards to his kids...
you already in a relationship with someone.
Yes, but from what I understand he has taken it slow and been very up front with her regarding what he wants, and what he is prepared to/has the ability to give in the relationship. That's all anyone can ask in ANY relationship. It also doesn't seem super serious at this point (I could be wrong on this), which I do agree probably wouldn't be a good idea this soon.
She will be the one that gets hurt.
That risk exists in any relationship (true, some more than others and especially in a case like this). Again, since Ian has been very honest and forthcoming about his intentions, that's all he can do and all he should have to do - but I don't think he should preemptively rule out a relationship because of the risk of what MIGHT happen. She's younger than him, but she's not a child either.
Can you not just have time to be Ian and be by yourself and learn how to live life without having a significant other in the picture?
He's done that for some time now I think. He's not marrying this gal, just dating her. And only when he has time OUTSIDE of his kids, rather than INSTEAD of being with them.
I could be wrong, but I get a sense of "if you are dating then you can't be a good parent and aren't being responsible" vibe here; while that certainly can be true and often is in many cases like this, I don't think it's the case here.
And BND - not to seem like I'm picking on you, just wanted to offer my opinion to your post. I respect your opinion even if I don't share it.
Kev
I disagree with BND's posts to you, Ian.
I disagree because I understand the you already HAVE learned how to "be Ian and be by yourself and learn how to live life without a significant other in the picture".
That's what this ordeal
makes you do, even if you do it kicking and screaming the whole way. You have done it.
I understand that conflicts that are arising for you with "dating" - the seeming lack of stability from one week to the next...I think this is a feeling you're going to have to work out for yourself though. And I know you will.
So 25 eh?
Not bad.
Not bad at all, old man.
I disagree also that this young woman will end up hurt.
As long as you are honest and proceed slowly and with caution, I see no reason anyone here should be objecting to you having a piece of eye candy.
Or anything else you might want.
JK.
But seriously, I see nothing wrong with it so long as you remain a nice guy.
Take care and take your time.
This too shall pass.
AmyC
K-man,
I am glad you and I are able to have this discussion and I think it is wonderful that we both care so much about Ian that we have his best interests at heart, even if we are on opposite sides of the spectrum.
I could be wrong, but I get a sense of "if you are dating then you can't be a good parent and aren't being responsible" vibe here; while that certainly can be true and often is in many cases like this, I don't think it's the case here.
Absolutely not!!!
Going through the ordeal that Ian just survived is absolutely life changing and heartbreaking. Nobody deserves to be treated so cruely by the person they were supposed to spend the rest of their life with.
My only concern is that Ian is in way over his head and I don't feel that I am at liberty to share certain things that he and I spoke about in private.
There has to be a balance, that is my concern.
I do know how it feels to be lonley and at times desperate for some attention from the opposite sex.
I do understand the feelings of low self worth after having been rejected.
I do understand the feelings of being overwhelmed with the daily BS of life and the mundane crap and the kids constant needs.
K-Man, I am no stranger to those same feelings that Ian is dealing with.
But it is what we do with those feelings that helps us to either heal and move forward or makes us become even more "stuck".
((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
My only concern is that Ian is in way over his head and I don't feel that I am at liberty to share certain things that he and I spoke about in private.
I don't know how anyone can try to offer Ian any legitimate support if they are missing pieces of his story but it's his prerogative to withhold things he isn't ready to share.
However, he will have to pick his way through what has been said to him and figure out what applies and what doesn't.
Seems kind of a waste of time but it ain't my story.
I am sure Ian will be fine.
Well now, I have warm and fuzzy feelings just knowing that so many of you care so much.
Missing information, let me address that because it is not my intent to leave anything out.
I met this girl at work. Not my work, hers. I have employees that do contract labor at her companies facility. SHE DOES NOT WORK FOR ME. I am a "boss" of my employees.
She is also a registered alien resident. She has been in the US for 4 years now and is from El Salvador.
BND and I discussed whether or not she was maybe enamored because of my status, age, etc.....
I actually have taken a good hard look at our dating relationship and do not, from talking with her, get the sense that it is like that. I understand how it could have been the case, but it does not appear to be to me.
Hell, I even joked with another poster the other night because the simplicity of dating her is fantastic. She gets excited when I stop at the store and pick her up a pack of gum while I am there for god's sake. It's actually kind of refreshing that she appreciates the little things.
We have serious talks, mainly about family as she is very far from the people who she truly loves. We also laugh together a lot. I make fun of her horrible english and she teases me about my spanglish.
Bottom line, I am having a great time with her. I had to go away for the weekend a couple of weeks ago and I asked her if she wanted to join me. She did. We had a great weekend. We had FUN.... Nothing serious, just a good time getting to know each other better.
BND, I had a very serious talk with her about all that you and I discussed. I wanted the air clean and to make sure this is not about anything more than enjoying each others company and having fun together.
I agree with whoever made the statement that I have spent my time alone. I have found myself again. I have been seperated for almost 2 years now. It is not mandated that you are only truly alone once the divorce occurs. Reality is that many of us have been alone for a very long time.
And Amy, Hell yeah sista.... this old man still has a little juice in the tank.
Kev, you are aware of everything. Have been with me through this thing and I appreciate how much you care about me. The feeling is overwhelmingly mutual my friend. Golf soon dude........ Just the boys?????
As I said, it was not my intent to withhold any information. I also do not wish to skew anyone's opinion as it is a R, simple as that. The other details IMHO are not that important. The thing that got me about BND and I's convo was the burning question about whether she makes me feel younger and the answer was simply yes. Right now though, I don't think that is such a bad thing. Feathers down Amy, I wasn't playing coy.....
I am happy, by myself, with my kids, and when I am with her. I believe that is what is important at this point.
Ian
Yes.. The Point ! Who did that "song".. um Harry Nielson (sp). Me and my arrow.. ^
Your world sounds pretty groovy there, buddy. Why the thingys, then ?!
Why the self doubt/esteem issues, eh ? Enjoy life. and make it yours !
Just me..
Tom
BND and I discussed whether or not she was maybe enamored because of my status, age, etc.....
I actually have taken a good hard look at our dating relationship and do not, from talking with her, get the sense that it is like that. I understand how it could have been the case, but it does not appear to be to me.
You could probably verify this with her Ian, but in most South American countries, it's very common to have marriages where the Woman is much younger than the Man.
I know this, because I have a friend who owned a small manufacturing enterprise in Columbia. He had his product assembled down there and sold it here in the states. He married a young Woman who worked for him and brought her back here. She's 20 years younger then him and they just had a child. They come across as very compatible and happy together. He told me that's the norm for married couples down there. Her Father was 15 years older than her Mother.
Their culture sees marriage as very different than ours and their divorce rate is substantially lower. They see it in the traditional way as in "forever".
Ian--
I mostly lurk, but I wanted to throw a couple of thoughts your way.
Try not to feel guilty about the "feelings" you are having--about your kids, about your desire to focus on you, etc. Feelings are what they are, and they in no way define who you are as a human being. Even as a full time, awesome parent in a committed relationship, great people I have known express a desire to send their kids *somewhere else* for a while so they can have a life, get some sleep, etc. This is normal; it doesn't mean you don't love your kids or won't step up and do what's necessary to be a good parent.
Feelings and actions, as we've learned via DBing, are very different things.
I actually think it's incredibly normal to want to focus on yourself. Being on the piecing end of things, I had the same feelings not so long ago. I'd had to hold my tongue and be the patient one for so long, even though I had issues with my M and wanted to bring to the table. The difference between our sitches, Ian, is that I got my turn. My H has stood in my shoes, heard the hard stuff, and taken action. I got my turn and my say.
I kind of see you as taking your time now as you would if you were in piecing...and actually, you *are* piecing, only it's your life you're piecing back together.
Guilt is a way we torture and second-guess ourselves. Deal with what is, not what *should* be by whatever story you buy into. Do you intend to hurt others? Are you neglecting your children? What is the evidence your actions provide?
Take care of you, keep conscious, and embrace your own happiness.
SD
SD, we have known each other long enough now that you should never ever hold back from posting to me. I enjoy your insights and take on things.
I agree with you about the time for me stuff as well. My kids leave June 26th for Colorado to be with Carrie's mom and dad. It appears that they will stay until early August so about 6 weeks of bachelor life for me.....I think I can stay out of trouble
ATGO, I am familiar with the cultural norm for south america as well. She has told me that it is ok for a man to be much older but a woman cannot be older than a man. Her older sister was actually a bit upset when we started dating, but since then we have talked and get along quite well. She told me she was afraid I was simply trying to sleep with her sister and then dump her.
Attorney Tom, I do wonder if our lives running parallel is a good thing or not
I will relax and enjoy.....as you say......Maybe even eat a pretzel or two.
Ian
BND and I discussed whether or not she was maybe enamored because of my status, age, etc.....
Ummmm.....really?
Ummmm, yeah. You were the one who brought that to my attention when we IMed the other day were you not? I hadn't really even thought about it until we discussed it that night and you probed me as to my role at work. Is that not correct BND?
Hmmmm.....I am talking to BND right now on the phone and I also have heard a different version.
What exactly is going on here Ian?
Hmmmm......something is afoot here, and someone is not telling the truth.
... and you probed me ....
And someone said "probed"!
... and you probed me ....
And someone said "probed"!
I think someone was PROBED! Hahahaha!
Well, not sure why you and BND would be discussing our conversation but the fact of the matter is that we were IMing each other and I brought up the dating thing. She and I discussed how me and my lady friend met and she asked me several questions about it.
She also brought to my attention the epreviously stated discussions Jeanette. Do you believe something is afoot....really? Is that a fairly sinical way of saying that maybe BND and I had different understandings of OUR conversation? Do you have any input that you would like to share that adds value to the conversation?
Bottom line is that I have been addressing this issue and trying to sort through all that is going on with me. My issues as I see them. Some have said to me maybe I am in the midst or beginnings of my own MLC. Some have also said that sometimes the opinions offered on the boards can be skewed by one's own experiences in their own lives. It is all subject to personal inflection wouldn't you say?
I mean all of our personalities do tend to come out in our posting styles don't they?
BND, yours and my conversation is an open book atthis point. You have my permission to share what we discussed and if I do not remember it the same way I will share that. Reality is I don't care about the whole who said what and when crapola, I simply care about keeping on the right track and doing the right things.
Ian
Yes Ian I do.
Listen, please do not take this the wrong way. I do mean what I'm going to say with sincerity. Ok?
Our personalities DO show, for those of us who have read each others posts for a very long time now, we usually can see when a fellow poster is kinda "Off Kilt" so to speak.
Your posts as of late are very off kilt and are more on the lines of you needing validation for something? What it is, I do not know, but there is something else going on and it's not all about the new young girl.
Whatever it is Ian, it's easy enough to tell that your not ready for a serious relationship with anyone right at this moment. Not at all.
You do need to keep on the right track, but most importantly YOU NEED TO DO THE RIGHT THING.
This experience has been hard on us all, and if you think your above it or over it, I do believe you would be deluding yourself.
We also may try and use a band-aide to help us over the hard parts. You must try to recognize what is a band-aide and what it a true action. You also need to realize that YOUR actions may hurt others.
I'm sure it's no ones intention to hurt another person in anyway. Neither our friends from the board or other friends in the outside life of this board.
Remember everything you've learned Ian. Put it to practice.
Sincerely,
Jeanette
Hi Jeanette-
Your posts as of late are very off kilt and are more on the lines of you needing validation for something? What it is, I do not know, but there is something else going on and it's not all about the new young girl.
I agree that Ian's posts have been a bit different in tone lately, but my impression was always that he's just really tired of the whole situation with STBX, has been bit more overwhelmed by it at times because of this, and is ready to close that chapter once and for all and move forward with the cards he's been dealt.
AND...
Whatever it is Ian, it's easy enough to tell that your not ready for a serious relationship with anyone right at this moment.
I agree, but haven't gotten the impression that he either is in or wants a serious relationship at this point (again I could be misreading the situaiton) - and he seems to have been VERY upfront about that with this person.
YOU NEED TO DO THE RIGHT THING.
Remember everything you've learned Ian. Put it to practice.
From what I know both here on the boards and from talking to him in person, I think he's doing both of these things, and pretty well.
Kev
Admittedly off kilter Jeanette, admittedly
That is why I chose to post again. My thoughts have been tough to deal with and I am trying to keep the correct perspective and maintain a balance for myself that does not put me in jeopardy of hurting others, or myself.
No, I am not ready for a serious relationship. That is why I have tried to be very up front with this woman and try and explain to her that I am ready for no more than good company and fun right now. I am not looking to move any further than that.
The other stuff, well it is all surrounded by the emotions that come with the ending of one's marriage. We have all been there and we all know that no matter how prepared we think we are, we react and we have feelings that we can't always deal with.
My biggest concerns have been my kids, my feelings of being overwhelmed by parenthood, and at one point my loneliness. I corresponded with one of the moderators at first because she happened to drop me an email "checking in on me". I chose to open up to her and her response was one of caring and concern. The feelings that I have gone through lately have dictated my "off kilter" attitude.
Believe me, I do not think for one moment I am above or beyond those feelings or failures. In fact contrary to popular belief, I do not have a swelled head. I am very very hard on myself. I am my own harshest critic. I have a hard time believeing that I deserve happiness. I have a hard time accepting that the depletion of my marriage wasn't "my fault". I have a hard time feeling like I am a good father. I have a hard time feeling like any woman will ever truly love me. I have a hard time believing that I am ever going to feel secure enough to trust a woman again.
These are the issues that I tangle with sometimes on a daily basis. I am able to see what is right and what is wrong. I am able to post to others with heart fealt conviction and 100% belief that what I am saying is the advice that I would want given to me. Putting those things into practice in my own life has been my struggle. Even as a DBer I feel like I have not done all I could have. I at times do not feel like a success and I question many of the things that I did. Hell, I took her to Scotland in the middle of all of this crap and for the life of me cannot figure out what the hell I was thinking. It was truly 10 days of torture and what is worse is that it was self inflicted.
Anyway, I am simply trying to wade through it all and get my confidence back. Get back to a place where I truly believe in myself and what I am doing. Feel like I am being a good father, friend, and man. Do you understand?? If I was simply wanting to choose the path of least resistance I would not be posting at all.
Ian
Hi Ian...
I don't know all the intricacies of your situation but I've read your posts and sort of been one of the lurkers watching your threads from time to time. So what I say is purely from the suface of things... but it seems that your friends are just very concerned about you and obviously love you to pieces or they wouldn't bother with questioning the wisdom of your new R. From what it seems you, like many others here, have been through hell and are just now on your way back out. The band-aid thing is a very real concern.... it is so freaking easy to get swept up in the "wow" of it all because finally at long last you feel human again... and it feels soooo wonderful to be wanted and important and appreciated. Sometimes it is this wonder we get caught up in and enjoy so much that it is far more desirable than finishing the healing process which still involves that less than pleasant introspect. I guess the big concern would be.... just don't go jumping half-healed.... you'll only end up back in the same place having to finish the process with possibly more work...
Just my 2 cents.... I wish you all the best Ian!
That is why I chose to post again. My thoughts have been tough to deal with and I am trying to keep the correct perspective and maintain a balance for myself that does not put me in jeopardy of hurting others, or myself.
Good. Sort out everything that has happened in the last lets say 6 months or so. Remember, even tho we may THINK we are not hurting someone by our actions, we need to put ourself into the shoes of our friends and loved ones.
The other stuff, well it is all surrounded by the emotions that come with the ending of one's marriage. We have all been there and we all know that no matter how prepared we think we are, we react and we have feelings that we can't always deal with.
No we can't always control those feelings Ian. But we can sure try to be aware of them. We of all people should be acutely aware of OUR feelings and how it's best to deal with them. Even if it means cutting ourself off from others as to not hurt them.
I corresponded with one of the moderators at first because she happened to drop me an email "checking in on me". I chose to open up to her and her response was one of caring and concern.
WTF? I am not so sure I like that. NO, not that you opened up to the moderator and I'm sure I can guess who it was. But that doesn't sit well with me, what if WE want to open up to another poster and NOT A MODERATOR!!! We cannot just drop them an email.
DICTATORSHIP at it's WORSTI am very very hard on myself. I am my own harshest critic. I have a hard time believeing that I deserve happiness. I have a hard time accepting that the depletion of my marriage wasn't "my fault". I have a hard time feeling like I am a good father. I have a hard time feeling like any woman will ever truly love me. I have a hard time believing that I am ever going to feel secure enough to trust a woman again.
That is very very true on most of us. Shell shock at it's best. This is why I'm saying to you......no matter who it is, a work friend, a board friend, a unknown new friend, keep in mind that you do need healing time. WE ALL need healing time.
Anyway, I am simply trying to wade through it all and get my confidence back. Get back to a place where I truly believe in myself and what I am doing. Feel like I am being a good father, friend, and man. Do you understand?? If I was simply wanting to choose the path of least resistance I would not be posting at all.
Then do it. Do it without the interferance of others and a relationship right now. Give YOURSELF time. If you don't do this, some friendships and perhaps a relationship will not have the good chance of becomeing something great.
When we as DB'ers start waffling and going off kilt, we should know that it's time for us to step back, regroup, refocus and start with a new perspective on how we've been conducting ourselves vs how we know we should be conducting ourselves.
Make sense?
I have a hard time feeling like any woman will ever truly love me. I have a hard time believing that I am ever going to feel secure enough to trust a woman again.
Ian,
I know how you feel. I have so been there. The REAL kicker is I chose my wife BECAUSE I TRUSTED HER! She betrayed me in the worst way.
How did I recover? I first came to grips with nothing on this Earth is permanent. Marriages can end. People can betray me. That is just the way it is. I got used to it. Second, I realized there are good women out there. They, believe it or not, have trouble finding good guys. Not every women has the lack of morals or values your ex-W had. Many of these gals just want a chance. Many of them have been through similar things you have. Life is all about chances. You need to take them in relationships. My prayer for you, my friend, is that God will continually guide you on this journey.
I wish you all the best.
Take Care,
NMD
Hi Ian:
I have never posted to you before. I have been following your thread with some interest.
First of all - I admire the way you have maintained a constructive tone throughout a challenging dialogue.
Second, I am happy to see you are balancing being a father and being an adult. Having adult down time makes you a better father.
Third, many of us oldtimers have gone through a rebound R and/or bandaid R. It seems like that first post D R is a rite of passage of sorts. And I have yet to hear about a first post D R that didn't feel like a soothing balm on wounded soul. And yes, the wounded state of our souls color our perspective of that R. I myself hopped into my first post D R w/in a month of my D becoming legal - and it crashed and burned and I hurt - and I got over it.
Hindsight is 20/20, you will learn more about this R and the role it plays in your life as it progresses and/or ends.
Age difference - not a big deal. You are both consenting adults.
You cannot take responsibility for or have any control over another adult's decision to enter into an R. You sound like you have been upfront about your position. She has heard you and made a decision to move forward. At this point in time, you have decided to move forward. It is as simple as that.
As for getting hurt, well any R that does not end in a forever commitment ends at some point and one person gets hurt more than the other. If at some point this R ends and someone gets hurt - that is just a natural part of dating. At that point, either she will lean on her friends and/or you will lean on yours. Regardless of whether it is her or you - you will both survive and move on with your lives. This is not a M - a dating R that does not work out is not fatal.
You cannot avoid living life out of a fear of getting hurt. If this is right for you now - well it is right for you now. You cannot predict with any certainty how you will view this R in the future.
My C told me when I jumped headfirst into my first D R to go out there and have a good time. He also told me that it was statistically unlikely that the first man I met post D would be The One.
Fourth, are you off kilter? Perhaps... We are all off kilter at different phases of our lives. So plod through it as you have been and eventually you will be "on" kilter again.
You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. Go out there and have some fun. There is nothing wrong with you. There is nothing wrong with you if this R does not work out. There is nothing wrong with a man that is a father and in an R - as long he has his priorities straight.
take care,
AG
Excellent post from AG. Wish I had her mind/brain.
Ian it's your life and you must live it. Life is a gamble whatever.
Don't know why I thought of this but 33 years ago when I had my first child and I was a besotted mummy, my very wise and far from young midwife told me that baby must fit into my/our life and not the other way round. It took me a while to see the wisdom in her words.
Thats not to say I didn't put her needs before mine but I also learnt the value of me time. Happy mummy equals happy baby. It applies still today.
Hey there,
I'm going to admit I didn't even read what started this "off-kilter" type discussion, but I did perk up a bit at "band-aid" and wanted to chime in.
Anyone can feel free to flame me, but I honestly feel that a guy can do everything right to get his life complete and happy on his own, and still need someone that's a little bit of a "band-aid". Being 10+ years out from my 1st divorce, looking back I still think it takes the kick of interest in someone else to completely shed those last little tendrils of "what ifs" that surround the ex-spouse. Maybe it's just me...does any other GUY (sorry ladies, I'm just not sure you are wired the same way) have a similar feeling or am I just weak?
Anyway, I'm saying that if you've been up front with this girl that it's fine to date.
Were your worries how your kids would react to that? If so, I can certainly understand that. I didn't want anyone around when I was spending my time with my kids (that won't work for you if you have them most the time) and really felt nervous and bad for them when they had to share my time with a new woman. Anyway, I'm just blabbering.
Well Phoenix.... being of the female persuasion I have to say you are probably right... that kick does help to take your focus off the pain. But that's the key,I think.... if we can get to the point where we are truly okay with life alone then maybe a new R has the possibility of flourishing. If we use it to "get away" from the pain...odds are it probably won't work out. But there has to be that "first one" to let you know where you are in the process huh?
Lost,
I wasn't even sure about the word "pain". What people have for the first months is pain. As you work on yourself, even when you are fairly happy, there is this vague "pining away", that almost seems pathologic, but it's still there. I don't think that a month after your spouse leaves that you find someone else to forget them, but if you've been at this for quite a while, and essentially accepted it's over with your spouse, I do feel like something is different when you have this band-aid of someone else. You finally can say, even if the person you dated isn't right for you, "what was I wanting my spouse back for?", kind of like Ian now realizing that the Scotland or Ireland thing wasn't so bright.
Yeah, I think there is kind of a "first one" that let's you know where you stand. Do you think that's misguided?
Yeah, I think there is kind of a "first one" that let's you know where you stand. Do you think that's misguided?
Not at all.... what I think is misguided is thinking that the "first one" is "the one".... especially so if we haven't given ourselves the time it takes to work through the confusion of the whole healing process.
Being divorced less than 24 hours, I am just wondering how terrible a band-aid is....I mean, don't adults go out and date to have fun? (Now, I am only going on Friends and Sex in the City episodes, since I was with x since I was 16 and haven't really dated...). If it doesn't end up being "the One," well, you weren't married...
just thinking out loud...
Yeah, I think there is kind of a "first one" that let's you know where you stand. Do you think that's misguided?
Phoenixdeux,
Not at all. The first gal I dated post D was a huge boost. She reminded that women find me attractive... She reminded me women can be romantic...... She reminded me there really are good sane women out there.... It was a fun few months.....
NO..... There was no ML.... I saved that for Wifey.....
NMD
Well I can tell you that I do not think that she is "the one". As I said I think I have a great time with her, I think she is fun to hang out with, and I am attracted to her.
I don't know where I stand on the band aid issue. As one of you said my vision may be a bit skewed by the fact that it is so new. Truth is it is a little euphoric and I am not going to try and guess anything about what will happen.
This is one that not everyone will see eye to eye on. And that is ok. Am I ready to date, I think so.
One negative byproduct of having been a DBer for any length of time is that we tend to OVER analyze every little situation that we come upon. We can do this to a fault.
Ian, you are a smart man not given to rash decisions.
And as well as many of us come to know each other on these boards, we still don't know everything there is to know about one another, nor can we.
Having good judgment doesn't mean you won't ever worry or second guess yourself along the way.
In the end, when you sit down on the edge of your bed every night and are alone with your thoughts, I know you will lead yourself well. I know that because you lead others well. And you can't do that if you can't first lead yourself.
I trust your judgment and I wish you well.
Amy
What seems to be getting lost in all of this is exactly what you're referring to Ian - that this is simply a fun relationship with mutual attraction and interest on each person's part - that's it. Not once have you ever said or implied that she is "the one" or that she is your "soulmate" or professed undying love for her, blah blah blah. You have in fact specifically addressed WITH HER that it is not those things, not now at least and for the foreseeable future. It seems to be getting forgotten that not every relationship is supposed to result in a lifelong commitment and not every girl or lady friend becomes your wife.
For the life of me I cannot understand why some folks are having a problem - to the point of questioning your morals and judging you - with you having a CASUAL relationship after the end of your marriage (while continuing to make your children your top priority). You've been pretty clear about all of this and it seems pretty simple and straightforward to me.
I'm so bewildered by it that it actually got me up out of lurker mode for a few days to actually post about it...
Kev
That my friend is because you are a defender of the faith. You believe that not all things are as simple as right or wrong. I tend to lean with you on that as you know.
You know if I think about premarriage, I would have never been this honest with a woman about intentions or lack there of. So I actually believe that all be it only a dating/fun thing, it is also a huge sign that I have grown and am able to communicate and not lead on.
I believe Kev that someone summed it up pretty well. It is obvious that people on here care or they would not even bother with it. I look through all the adversity of our varying opinions and I see the good in people actually giving a crap and letting me know that they care enough to tell me their opinions even when they don't concur with mine. That is how we learn and grow isn't it? Trial and error????
Not for nothing, but you suck. Why the hell do you lurk when your advice and insight after two DB efforts are so amazing at times. You know there is this guy...no two guys in newcomers that you probably could really help. M in Tennessee and Ready2Change. Both really good guys, both struggling as things unfold, both in need of some sage advice right now. Any of you other oldtimers around here, check in on these two, They are in the middle of the storm and trying to find their way through.
In fact, AMYC,read M in Tennessee's post from today after his mediation. he needs some help as he finds himself in Job's place right now and is questioning his faith.You happen to be outstanding in that arena so please pop in and lets help our brother find his feet again.
I am off to bed, 12 hour shift tomorrow and then dinner with my friend
Ian
Hey Ian,
Seems this topic kinda got OFF topic.
I would have never been this honest with a woman about intentions or lack there of. So I actually believe that all be it only a dating/fun thing, it is also a huge sign that I have grown and am able to communicate and not lead on.
Exactly WHO is the woman you are refering about? The young girl you work with? I was refering to many more than just her.
Remember what I said Ian, your ACTIONS must also include others. Your board friends, your new friends you've not met, your childrens friends.....and so on.
It is obvious that people on here care or they would not even bother with it. I look through all the adversity of our varying opinions and I see the good in people actually giving a crap and letting me know that they care enough to tell me their opinions even when they don't concur with mine. That is how we learn and grow isn't it? Trial and error????
We do care. Whether it's for you, or for someone your hurting, someone you've hurt or someone you may hurt.
Trial and error are how some grow. Trial and error are how some excuse.
Again, as a very good role model on this board Ian, you should know some of the ERRORS before even TRYING.
Jeanette
Jeanette-
Seems this topic kinda got OFF topic.
Actually, I think it's right ON topic, just not the one you want to keep pounding on Ian about, which in my opinion doesn't apply to him anyway as has been pointed out throughout this thread, with supporting details...
The young girl you work with?
I find it interesting that you stuck the "young" in there since although she's certainly younger, she's very much an adult. You make it sound like she's in high school or something.
Whether it's for you, or for someone your hurting, someone you've hurt or someone you may hurt.
That pretty much covers the entire human population...
Jeanette, I don't know you so don't take this personally, but since you've now gone from 'kinda' judgmental to what I consider full-on 'holier than thou' mode, I just wanted to comment on it. You really make it sound like Ian (or in a broader sense any guy with kids) shouldn't date again, casually or otherwise, following a D - until some vague, undefined amount of "healing time" has passed. What is that time frame? How do you know when the healing is done? Is there some manual or formula? You seem unable to accept even the possibility that Ian is in a place where it's "acceptable" that he meet new people and pursue even a casual relationship with the opposite sex, and I find it odd. I'd be interested in hearing why you think that...or in you correcting me if I've misinterpreted you...
Ian-
You have a point, I'll check those two out over the next few days. My main concern has been balancing the experiences I've gone through versus the fact that a lot of folks over there in Newcomers are still fighting for their M's. We'll see...
Kev
No Kevin....
I'm not being judgmental at all. I'm trying to point out something that seems not healthy.
Yes, you have completely misinterpreted what I am saying.
Sigh....
To me the age thing doesn't make a difference. I'm sure she is an adult. I refer to her as "young" because it's how Ian mentioned her.
I think Ian will be able to read between my lines.
I'm not into bashing. Perhaps at one time, but now I see there is something deeper within the posts.
People are being hurt.
If you have my email, use it, if you are interested in hearing what concerns me.
If you don't have it, many people you know do.
If not, drink a Yoohoo, I hear it does a body good.
Jeanette
From an (apparently) outsider perspective....
If there's some deep, dark, dirty secret that is behind the recent postings, to the point that people have to be directed to emails to "understand" why we're saying what we're saying...
Maybe the entire conversation should have been handled confidentially.
The members of this board can only post and respond to what is written here. If there is more to the story, our advice winds up being invalid or faulty.
Bill
Jeanette, I know you have access to my email and I am certainly interested in your concerns in the unedited version (not suitable for posting).
I do read between the lines well and please do not think for one minute that I think you are attacking or being mean so to say. Didnt enter my mind. I believe that you, just as I, post what your heart tells you and that is good with me.
And Bworl, I agree with you. Post it out there, say what there is to say. I am not sure what it is that is so confidential that I have not said on these posts. Whatever it is, post it. I am a big boy and am most willing to face any realities that come to light which I have not shared.
Ian
Ian,
I can't find it!
I'll get someone to send it to me!
If you have my email, use it, if you are interested in hearing what concerns me.
Jeanette
Jeanette it is inappropriate of you to invite someone else to email you regarding Ian's business. What Ian chooses to share here or one on one with anyone else is one thing but you two - or any other two - discussing it amongst yourselves amounts to gossip and is out of line, in my opinion.
Step back.
Jeanette it is inappropriate of you to invite someone else to email you regarding Ian's business. What Ian chooses to share here or one on one with anyone else is one thing but you two - or any other two - discussing it amongst yourselves amounts to gossip and is out of line, in my opinion.
Thank you Amy, I thought it was just me......
How come there is so much drama recently?
If this is solely about two adults having a relationship and everything has been laid out on the table, I just don't see what all this drama is about. In most relationships someone gets hurt regardless of how well adjusted you are.
Ian, have fun with it.
I am so biting my tongue.
But thats ok.
Amy I will step back.
YOU WOULD ATTACK!!
I do mean this sincerely.
Ian knows what the deal is.
Ian is the one that has to have it on his concious.
Karma Karma Karma
Karma karma drama....
Maybe I have wrote out of turn since there must be something ominous here that we didn't know about. I generalized about relationships post divorce in general terms....and I still think those apply.
I generalized about relationships post divorce in general terms....and I still think those apply.
I agree! And, I think that although it's Ian who is the center of this discussion, it's an interesting topic and discussion in general terms, especially for this forum, which is why I wanted to weigh in in the first place. It's also why THIS is the appropriate place and not offline with anyone other than Ian.
The suggestion of discussing Ian's situation with you - something I have zero interest in doing, by the way - was just bizarre to me Jeanette.
Again, I may disagree with some of the opinions here but it all makes for a good debate on a topic near and dear to many of us following the "Big D."
Kev
I feel like I am missing out on some secret club or society thing, myself.
Ian, have a GREAT time with your girlfriend, and know that you are an awesome father with very normal feelings. Use them to guide the amount of time and attention you give each facet of your life. It is all about balance.
I just posted the exact same thing - and just deleted it. I find myself checking this thread out of a morbid sense of curiosity wondering about The Big Secret....
I am ready to start a thread - Top 10 possible super secret hush hush reasons why Ian should not date his GF.
take care,
AG
Ok, I re-read my post.
I did not mean for you to discuss Ian's personal stuff. Although yes it does look like that....SORRY!
It was more of a generic discussion of dating and dating people from the bulletin board who have not healed.
Can't blame it on the edit button either. Damn!
Most people know how I feel about bb reltationships, I don't happen to agree with them. But thats just my opinion. Yes, I know there are happy couples formed, and an impending marriage. But I have seen more hurt than good come from them.
I do feel that a person needs to heal from thier own divorce tradgedies before forging ahead, especially if that person is from this bb and has not healed themself!
Now is not the time to get involved with another, especially if that person has not healed from thier recent divorce and the other person just finalized thiers.
It will only lead to more hurting.
It's time to heal, not hurt.
Jeanette
I am not talking about Ian's girlfriend at his job.
Maybe the drama about this should just end
there are clearly parts of the story that many people have heard many different versions of
i was privy to one
maybe someone else heard a different stroy with some of the same parts but different parts may have been highlighted.
all I know is that it seems to me that there are many different stories flying around here and I guess it is up to Ian to decide what or who to listen to.
I am not high-fiving
there are some things I am concerned about
people getting hurt is a real possibility
everyone has to live with their own conscience
does that make sense
but
how about the fact that there will be people who agree
people who don't
and I will keep my flaming emails between those involved
Isn't it strange that so many people have found themselves entangled in an EA with someone on this board.
I am willing to bet that 99.9% of them never ever intentionally wanted it to happen.
But us peeps understand one another's pain.
Many of us have been on the phone with one another for hours at a time, sharing one another's burdens.
We chat on IM, we sent texts and emails, and some of us actually go as far as to visit fellow DB'ers.
Again, it is all so innocent when it starts, especially as a friend.
And when our own WAS is off in Neverland, and we need someone to be there for us we turn to someone on the board.
For those of us who actually DB, we learn so much about ourselves and so much about the things we need to change about ourselves.
We learn about what it is that we truly want out of a relationship with someone, whether it is our WAS or someone new.
And we share these new hopes and dreams and fears with someone of the opposite sex, who is also our friend and sometimes those feelings change into something else.
Fig,
I am not flaming at all.
I do not want to see EITHER party hurt.
BOTh parties clearly need to heal.
One party is hurting.
Like I said, Ian has his own concsious to deal with.
So now I will step out.
Both are adults, both should realize, but both are hurting from the backlash of divorce.
Sincerely or respectfully but definatley
with love to both!
Jeanette
Jeanette:
I can related to where you are coming from. I use to be a very active DB socialite at one time and saw much of what you have said. I use to agree with what you have posted. And in part ran away from the DB social scene b/c it upset me. And I myself dated a fellow DB'er and it was a huge disaster.
Now five years later I have a little different take on this.
Different people follow different paths in life. We are all adults and part of being an adult is the freedom to choose an learn in your own way at your own pace. These days I am more about letting people do what they will and figure things out for themselves. Sometimes I find people learn more about life when they experience it themselves. I am happy for my friends if I am wrong and there to support them if I am right.
I reserve my soapbox for occasions where someone is placing themselves in danger or exposing their children to their post D issues.
take care,
AG
Like I said, Ian has his own concsious to deal with.
I am not sure what you think my concsious has to deal with jeanette, but I can assure you it is clean today. Have I made mistakes in the past, yes. Those are mine to deal with and I have. Am I embarassed by them, absolutely. However, weakness occurrs even in the strongest of people. You deal with your actions and try the best you can to learn from your mistakes. Did I bring it here, on the boards, nope. I don't think there was any value added at the time and I used my friends and family to deal with it. Many were board members who respected my wishes to not discuss on the boards. Some apparantely fealt the need to discuss with others on this board, whatever. These are the inner circles of DBing and I get that, just a shame that they are held for times of judgment rather than addressed when they occur wouldnt you say???????
I had a one night stand with a girl who was friends with my daughter. I made a huge mistake. I have dealt with that and it is in the past. I do not talk to her, I do not need any to tell me why it was wrong, I am my own judge and have found myself guilty and handed down my own sentence for that.
Board relationships are very interesting because sometimes people assume there is more to them then there really is. I have made a very special friend on the boards. Someone who is near and dear to me because of the things we shared and discussed. In different circumstances who knows what would have occurred between the two of us. In our current situations nothing was going to happen and we were both very aware of that.
Two people do have the ability to have a very special friendship without it being more than just that. A very special friendship.
This, is not something that anyone wanted. This, there was no way to see that it was going to happen. This, is between two people and my advice, do not cast judgment on what you do not know all about. If anyone for one fricken minute believes that I wanted pain or hurt to be caused to anyone, well you can kiss me where the sun doesnt shine because I guarantee you havent talked to me about it and are making your decisions without all the information. The statement made here that I quoted, there is only one person involved that I give a crap about and she knows that.
I have kept my tongue as well, because I was simply trying to get some things dealt with and they have nothing to do with the apparent issues that have come to light. I have always said that if you have a problem, bring it to me. Do not cast veiled dispursions and utter under your breathe. We are all adults here and this is real stuff that happens when you are in the middle of this crap. If you want to man up, then man up full force not half asssed.
Now, I am pretty sure that many of you are reading your screen and scratching your head like there is no tomorrow. It all makes sense though to those who skirt the issues and veil the truths that are there. You cannot BS a BSer and as many know, I know how to BS.
Ian
You cannot BS a BSer and as many know, I know how to BS.
Yes I believe you do.
I never knew that before, thank you for pointing that out.
I still live in the land of the naieve.
Ian, I have no judgment on either of you whatsoever.
Just be careful, the hurt can seem endless at times.
Isn't it strange that so many people have found themselves entangled in an EA with someone on this board.
I am willing to bet that 99.9% of them never ever intentionally wanted it to happen.
But us peeps understand one another's pain.
Many of us have been on the phone with one another for hours at a time, sharing one another's burdens.
We chat on IM, we sent texts and emails, and some of us actually go as far as to visit fellow DB'ers.
Again, it is all so innocent when it starts, especially as a friend.
And when our own WAS is off in Neverland, and we need someone to be there for us we turn to someone on the board.
For those of us who actually DB, we learn so much about ourselves and so much about the things we need to change about ourselves.
We learn about what it is that we truly want out of a relationship with someone, whether it is our WAS or someone new.
And we share these new hopes and dreams and fears with someone of the opposite sex, who is also our friend and sometimes those feelings change into something else.
WTFlip does this have to do with what Ian
IS discussing on this thread, BND?
I don't give a rat's ass about what information you are privy to from private conversations with Ian - nor do I care if he's in a EA with someone else from these boards.
I reckon you and Jeanette can burn up the phone lines tonight talking about me now but my opinion on this subject is twofold and stands independant of your "private information":
1) It is wrong of you to reference your one on one conversations with Ian on this thread. Further, it is wrong for you to discuss those things on the phone with Jeanette. Ian can reveal in his own time whatever he wants to here - and he can withhold information as well.
2) You and Jeanette are hopping up on some kind of righteousness bandwagon that to be honest, is really ugly, judgmental and pompous.
I know both your stories - and let me remind you I know both of you have compromised your own "stands" in the past just as I did - YEAH - I WENT THERE but precisely
because I've compromised myself previously I wouldn't dare to pop off with the attitude you and Jeanette are conveying on this thread.
Have you both forgotten where you came from???
Ian is a divorced, single father.
Moreover, he is a SMART, divorced, single father.
Back the hell off him and knock it off with the self-righteous, innuendo-laced posts.
Both of you can communicate with Ian privately via email and I suggest you do it.
There are others that read these threads and you are both coming off so holier than thou that it's making me sick.
I don't even recognize either of you right now.
AmyC
Amy.
Although you have jumped onto the bandwagon my post mentioned no names.
I never implied that Ian was having an emotional affair with anyone.
I posted in response to Jeanettes thread in regards to her comment about relationships on the board.
And if you MUST know Amy, and everyone else....
My personal conversation had to do with the fact that MY Father also was caught F-ing my best friend in high school and how it affected my relationship with him.
My Dad had very low self esteem after wife #2 Divorced him, and sought the company of younger women, I think it made him feel better about himself.
That was my issue.....Got it?
Get it?
Now bite me!!
Back atcha BND - this is still all coming across very wrong on this thread.
You have my email.
Amy
You have it all wrong.
Very wrong.
There is not attitude, no high horse, no holier than thou.
There simply isn't.
When you see the actions of one person is hurting someone else, you should speak up.
I spoke up to you, and I will do it again.
Self righteous my ass!
Oneday it's post everything on the board, the next it's keep it private???
What way do you prefer it Amy?
If I am privy to any information, it did not come second hand, nor by email, nor by text or even a pidgeon courier service!!
I'm sorry but I feel IT IS WRONG for db'er to get involved with another db'er before either of them are DONE!
Like I said, someone will get hurt in the process.
We above all people should now grasp this concept.
If I'm not mistaken this conversation started as a discussion of the person that Ian is seeing NOW, how he has handled it, how he plans to continue handling it, while keeping the other priorities in his life in line - particularly his children.
It's a great topic for many here who are now or who will at some point in the future face a similar situation. There is also good input to be had from others who have already gone through a similar situation.
It wasn't about relationships between DBers who meet on this board, which is an entirely different topic. Ian never brought that up at all, it was steered in this direction by others.
If we can't keep the discussion to what the owner of this thread has brought up HERE, maybe it's best not to participate simply out of common courtesy to the thread owner and respect for the rules, unwritten or otherwise, of this board. Just a suggestion...
Kev
I'm sorry but I feel IT IS WRONG for db'er to get involved with another db'er before either of them are DONE!
Due to the implication here I feel it neccesary to clarify that I did not get involved with another db'er nor do I appreciate the implication that this could be the case.
No one wants anyone hurt, no one wants anyone to feel bad, and no one should believe that anyone posting on here has that intent.
I do however feel that this is very powerful dialogue and is good for people new here to read and understand. Also, I hate to say it AmyC (please don't beat me up ;)) the actions occurring on here...........here it comes.......justify the actions of the moderators eliminating contact amongst board members. ughhhhhhhhhh that sucked to even say, but it is the truth. I am not saying they should eliminate contact, but the way that some posts have come off, it justifies the belief that bad things can occur when people contact each other off the boards,
I for one would not want to lose that as I have needed people to talk on the phone with, to IM with, and to meet that share this common bond.
Ian
Ian
Ian,
Things have gotten out of control on this thread.
I have now shared things that were very personal to me that I have not shared here before.
I don't know exactly if anything I shared with you sunk in or not, it really doesn't matter anymore does it?
I will be keeping my personal life personal from now on, I also have learned a valuable lesson from this experience.
Share things only with people you truly trust, not those who love to wash your dirty laundry in public.
Take care of yourself,
Be careful
(((hugs)))
Don't know why I'm posting except to say that what seemed like a straightforward discussion of Ian's, or any divorced DB's, post-D relationships turned into this ugly affair. I kept thinking if I read on that I would see an interesting discussion in that vein, and basically only AG and Kman addressed that topic, while the rest was I don't know what...some kind of ugliness I guess.
Just because I still think this is a worthy topic, I would like to say that I think that this time in most of our lives is very confusing. I, for one, know how easy it is to let the attention of someone else validate that you are still desirable. Maybe it isn't that easy for a woman to understand, but in a vulnerable state, it seems that many guys are susceptible to the attention of a younger woman. This site is ripe for that kind of thing, with the emotions being what they are and the fact that we help each other feel better. But as far as airing someone else's dirty laundry on the boards, I don't think that is appropriate.
Anyway, I feel like I'm speaking out of turn, since I'm not one of Ian's usual posters. I usually confine myself to newcomers or idle musings on my own thread. Ta
Me
Crud. I never thought I'd post on Ian's thread. And I hope the irony of my perspective versus the goings on here is not lost on him.
Agree or disagree with his actions, HE is the only one qualified to judge him on Earth. Not me. None of us. Fact is, there may or may not be thing for a man to feel ashamed of. That's between him and the almighty. I've been in the judgement spotlight. It isn't right. If one feels Ian has hurt someone close to them, it's not for them to expose him to public ridicule and judgement. Instead, support the one you see as hurt and address your issues with the man privately.
I've failed to do this in the past. I'll tell you now, it brought me no satisfaction and only created pain. Let (s)he who is without sin cast the first stone.
I guess what I'm saying is, perceived flaws or superhuman strengths aside, Ian and his maker are the only ones who HAVE to face his choices 100%. And I'd be a hypocrite to sit here and cheer on the judgement-fest. So, I choose to encourage healing where I may. And I hope it comes to all of us soon.
Sorry. Had to share.
nicely said BH!!!
I just pirated again (heehee and on my new laptop!!! Woot Woot)
If the person that was referenced was the person I think it is (damn bread crumbs) I know for a FACT (for once!!!
) that there was not an emotional affair and no...all you clucking chickens...it isn't me.
Ian and I have had many differences but for once
I think he speaks the truth here
seems like there is an awful lot of conclusion jumping and not so much fact basing.
I shared with Ian my concerns about the new girl he is seeing. And, that's all they are, my concerns.
There are some very judgemental people on the boards and there have been very many things brought onto these boards that maybe should have remained private. Lots of people get hurt that way.
Hurt is hurt, no matter what way you slice it. Seems like Ian's hand was forced to maybe admit some things he wasn't ready to. I've been in that situation and it certainly doesn't feel good.
it is too bad that adults can't let other adults be adults.
We can make our own choices, mistakes or revelations that they may be. We can make our own decisions, good or bad and deal with the consequences.
I have faith that the adults involved in this fandango are just that...adults...and they can certainly fend for themselves. And, how about the fact that there was NO emotional affair...just a couple of people that were friends. When we care deeply about someone they have the power to hurt us the most, somtimes in the most innocent of ways.
At one time, Ian and I were great friends too. I made some decisions he didn't agree with, he made some I didn't. SHite happens but just because we hurt each other does NOT mean that we were emotionaly invovled...for crying out loud!!!!
let them do their own wash and lets get back to being adults.
(sorry Ian...I'm pretty sure this will set the howling banshees off on your thread but jeeeeeeeeeeeepers....i can't keep my mouth shut sometimes!!!!)
But as far as airing someone else's dirty laundry on the boards, I don't think that is appropriate.
I agree with that 100%..... dirty laundry is a mistake that I have made in the past as well. It serves no purpose and definitely is uninvited on my thread. That includes mine by others thanks.....
Anyway, I feel like I'm speaking out of turn, since I'm not one of Ian's usual posters. I usually confine myself to newcomers or idle musings on my own thread. Ta
Ummm Phoenix.....Post away,I have enjoyed your insights thus far and your perspective on the original topic was great. I appreciate you sharing your views. do not hesitate because you dont post to me regularly......2005....you have earned the right......
Ian
(sorry Ian...I'm pretty sure this will set the howling banshees off on your thread but jeeeeeeeeeeeepers....i can't keep my mouth shut sometimes!!!!)
And when the hell have I ever been afraid of the howling banchees.....seems to me Fig that you used to think I ate them for breakfast
at one time anyway.
Hurt is hurt, no matter what way you slice it. Seems like Ian's hand was forced to maybe admit some things he wasn't ready to. I've been in that situation and it certainly doesn't feel good.
I appreciate that Fig, but I have also been working on being more open with the things that I have kept private in the past.I have been known to not share how I feel and private things out of fear or shame, or simply self disgrace. There is nothing in my life that is above reproach and I am learning that the phrase "It is what it is" is probably one of the most profound ever created because it is dead on.
I would have preferred to divulge on my own terms, but I am certainly not upset that I had to. I don't believe there is any one person on this board who has not screwed up or made mistakes along the way. So my philosophy at this point is as long as it wasn't illegal or jeopardized my family, it should be an open book. My expectation would be that people would loving embrace the openness and deal with the issue at hand rather than stand in judgment.
I shared with Ian my concerns about the new girl he is seeing. And, that's all they are, my concerns
Yes you did, and I appreciated your candor.....and laughter
care for a stick of gum???????
At one time, Ian and I were great friends too. I made some decisions he didn't agree with, he made some I didn't. SHite happens but just because we hurt each other does NOT mean that we were emotionaly invovled...for crying out loud!!!!
That is true, we were not...... and at one time..... I have already told you that no matter our differences I do care about what happens with you and your boys just as I know you do about me and my kids. Like you said, shiite happens.
Ian
This thread while it has gotten a little out of hand is not a bad thing. I think it will be a good measuring stick to measure yourselves against in a few months and then a few years perhaps.
I myself found it to be a learning experience b/c there is nothing that has been said on this thread that I didn't hear in my group five years ago.
It takes time to heal from a D. It takes time to get past that vunerable stage. Our individual feelings are more easily hurt during this stage. We also tend to get emotionally involved more easily with people that empathize with our D experiences during this post D phase. And you cannot see that from where you stand today - you see it in hindsight. Every single one of us makes choices based on our state of mind at that time. And everyone single one of us has times when out state of mind colors our perspective and sometimes we make some not so great choices.
It really isn't about good or bad or judgement. It is about every person having to find their own way in life in their own way.
My group disbanded over hurt feelings just like this 5 years ago. I myself was very hurt and very angry. There were EA's/PA's, almost but not quite EA's/PA's, one sided EA's or PA's that meant more to one person than the other. I hope that does not happen to this group. You seem to have forged some strong bonds. I hope you will all be able to be able to put this all into perspective - things have been said b/c of heightened emotional states. I hope ou will allow things to settle a few days and see if you can get past it.
DB'ing doesn't just apply to WAS or dating - it applies to every single R in your life.
I wish all of you the best.
take care,
AG
I will address this last post and then I believe i would like to stick to the issues that I originally brought to the table here.
And I hope the irony of my perspective versus the goings on here is not lost on him.
Words are never lost on me..... I believe we can learn from everyone in our lives, we don't have to like each other to have insightful advice.....
I guess what I'm saying is, perceived flaws or superhuman strengths aside, Ian and his maker are the only ones who HAVE to face his choices 100%. And I'd be a hypocrite to sit here and cheer on the judgement-fest. So, I choose to encourage healing where I may. And I hope it comes to all of us soon.
Agreed..completely.. and there is always healing in these types of situations where things turn in a different direction then where they were originally going. I have learned that the threads that have this weird stuff....teach many lessons to those in need.
Absolutely no need to apologize.......I never asked you to not post on my threads
It's all good BH and I am glad YOU are feeling better.
Ian
Ian,
Buddy, Now I FULLY expect a phone call from you man. Sat, late afternoon?
Sunday early afternoon?
Either way.
I have two comments about this whole thing.
And Amy, Hell yeah sista.... this old man still has a little juice in the tank.
seems more like she has a little of your gas in her tank. :drums: and :cymbals: ba dum dum!
And
AmyC's:
Having good judgment doesn't mean you won't ever worry or second guess yourself along the way.
I think good judgement requires you to second guess yourself along the way.
\:D seems more like she has a little of your gas in her tank. :drums: and :cymbals: ba dum dum!
Oye........ I will call you this weekend. Sunday is fathers day you know.............Dad
Ian
Heh, forgot all about it actually.
Maybe take my dad to a ballgame.
You got my email still?
Ohhh...that sounded all cloak and dagger...
I'll just say it.
You're my friend, Jeanette's my friend, Oz is my friend, Liss is my friend, Amy is my friend, Drew is my friend; the list goes on a little bit more. Bill, Frank, had to add them. Just cause your name isn't here just means I am stupid.
I don't care. Amy's opinion of you isn't going to change the fact that your my friend. Or your opinion of Jeanette isn't going to change the fact that Jeanette is my friend.
That's all I wanted to say, too all my friends.
Now lets all stop beating a dead horse. : )
Maybe take my dad to a ballgame.
Sure, rub it in that you still have a dad....Kick a man when he's down Jack.....nice....
kidding dude, I will call saturday......
Ian
Ian,
I realize you asked to go back to the original topic, please forgive me but I also feel the need to explain myself.
I received a distraught phone call from someone I have not spoken to in a long time. I was rather bewildered why this person chose to call me, when they know where I stand on certain topics.
I listened for 4 hours.....I think we finally hung up at 3:30am.
Out of concern for her and you (yes I said you) I felt the need to say something to you, whether it was an innuendo or not, I thought you would understand my meaning.
I have made my meaning clear with every post. We all need time to heal. Some take longers than others, some heal differently than others...but for those of us who have a long standing on this board, if we see or in this case listened to it for 4 hours then, and I am speaking for myself, I felt the need to tap you on the shoulder, not draw you out or make you spill your life story. Not my intention. Nor did I ask you to "fess up" to anything.
You did that on your own. That was a good thing as it means you were thinking about your actions and how they may have hurt someone.
My intention was to let you know that maybe your actions are hurting someone, maybe your not aware of this happening, whether it be a friendly relationship or something more...you were hurting someone.
I do not have your email address I did a complete search, by the time it was given to me this whole chaos had started.
I cannot speak for BND, so I will say this on my behalf.
As a woman who has had her self esteem ripped apart it is very difficult to listen to a friend for hours being so upset about the goings on of things that sent her into such a tailspin you were all she talked about. Trust is very hard for women to regain, again thats my opinion. My first reaction was to protect a friend from something that appeared to be very unhealthy and the trust had been broken, severely broken.
I tried to do it subliminally I spose with words I thought you would catch onto.
I thought you would be able to understand that I was saying you hurt someone, so be careful in your future actions, especially when we all are so damn vulnerable.
I did not say anything wrong, but merely suggested a few things.
What Amy said about BND and I, was so out of line. Very out of line. It was also not true. Yes, BND and I talk everyday, mostly about our jobs, our kids, ourselves and normal stuff, hell, we even go virtual shopping together via our cell phones.
Her children sing songs to me on the phone. It keeps me in the real world. She is a wonderful woman.
It's not that often we discuss the boards. Not at all.
I also talk to Amy on the phone.....and I love that girl, but what she said was out of line concerning BND and myself, and very hurtful for her to cast such judgement like she did.
I meant no harm other than to advise against a personal relationship until both of you are healed instead of the walking wounded needing bandaides to get through life.
Sincerely,
Jeanette
Also, I hate to say it AmyC (please don't beat me up ;)) the actions occurring on here...........here it comes.......justify the actions of the moderators eliminating contact amongst board members. ughhhhhhhhhh that sucked to even say, but it is the truth. I am not saying they should eliminate contact, but the way that some posts have come off, it justifies the belief that bad things can occur when people contact each other off the boards,
I agree with you on that 100%.
My biggest gripe - which in the end had nothing to do with you personally Ian - was the innuendo I read in posts by Jeanette and BND. I realize you had personal conversations with BND but there's a line at which you can post only so much as you want to here until you're ready to post it all (
if there even IS an "all"). Those posts came off as if only BND and Jeanette knew what the hell was going on, rather it was intended that way or not. INNUENDO and POSTURING was what I raised hell about and both BND and Jeanette are (were) my friends and it wasn't coming off like I know either of them to be in reality. So yeah, I jumped and I'd jump again.
A while back, Jeanette called me because I had been posting erratically for several days. I spilled a bunch of stuff to her that involved my daughter and then another time, she detected the same thing and when she called I didn't tell her about what was going on but BECAUSE she basically called me out, I was forced to deal with the ugly situation I had gotten myself into. Basically, had I been allowed to remain in silence, I'd have been in deep sh*t. She basically flipped the light on for me and I did later put it all on the board. But how much whispering was going on at the time, I wonder after reading this mess today. It does not matter now but what does matter is that Jeanette was the only one that contacted me personally. If I were to sit here now and think of how my revelation on the board might have been talked about behind my back by those with each other's phone numbers I am certain I would never post another word on divorcebusting.com. Today it
seemed as if Ian's conversation with BND was being talked about behind his back.
I didn't, and still do not, think it was right that personal conversations were alluded to in posts by BND and Jeanette.
It made it seem as if Ian had stuff going on that would compromise his integrity on the boards and I took offense on his behalf. At the end of that day though, that isn't my business. Anything that remotely resembles gossip just really sticks in my craw and the posts today, at least to me, sounded as if gossip was occuring.
Ian, I apologize for being a b*tch on your thread but here, perception really is
everything.
AmyC
Jeanette:
I can related to where you are coming from. I use to be a very active DB socialite at one time and saw much of what you have said. I use to agree with what you have posted. And in part ran away from the DB social scene b/c it upset me. And I myself dated a fellow DB'er and it was a huge disaster.
Now five years later I have a little different take on this.
Different people follow different paths in life. We are all adults and part of being an adult is the freedom to choose an learn in your own way at your own pace. These days I am more about letting people do what they will and figure things out for themselves. Sometimes I find people learn more about life when they experience it themselves. I am happy for my friends if I am wrong and there to support them if I am right.
I reserve my soapbox for occasions where someone is placing themselves in danger or exposing their children to their post D issues.
take care,
AG
I agree, AG, When you step back/out of the situation, you see it very differently.
Board relationships can take on meanings you never intended, or you can both take on those meanings, because you have an understanding of a piece of life that is the same, you grow 'close' because of a shared experience. The friendships and the romances very often go sour when folks meet up. Many people have regretted taking the relationships further than they did. Unfortunately, some people just have to live through it to realize it.
AG--I got your note. There were extenuating circumstances and I will leave it at that.
Some don't regret it SG.
Pot and Kettles.
I do like you SG, I think you are a really caring person, so please don't take that entirely wrong. I think you are in a difficult place. I think that publicly you have to say one thing, but maybe privately feel different.