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Posted By: princess_nic I'm almost free! - 01/17/08 04:46 PM
Hi all!

I've been posting very seldom, as my D is almost final and I'm moving on happily w/o stbx H.

However, some issues specific to D and post-D are cropping up, so I thought maybe some of you more experienced folks could help.

Main problem right now:

stbx's live-in gf wants us (her and me) to communicate re. our kids so we can resolve probs in their blended family!! \:D

What a great idea!! Apparently stbx was "tearing up" when talking about S6's separation anxiety - news to me.

Anyway, I told her that I'm taking S6 back to therapy, and that I'll share any strategies I learn w/ stbx and then he can tell her. She asked me to call her if there's anything I want to talk about, and said she hopes she can do that same. To be honest, I don't want to get involved - the less I have to do w/ ex and his life, the better.

I told her (and then emailed him) that I think it's important for them to work as a team and deal with the issues.

Help! I really don't know what to do here. I want to help my son, but it is unhealthy for me to have any kind of R with this woman, other than the bare minimum (she was not ow he left me for, but another one). I really don't need to hear what a great H/father he is, KWIM? If she calls again, how I gently but firmly let her know that she needs to deal with stbx, not me?

Nicola
Posted By: MotherMovingOn Re: I'm almost free! - 01/17/08 07:05 PM
Chocolate martini please!

Tough situation with the gf---I'm not even sure how to advise.

Yes, I think it is healthy for you to have as little to do with their life as possible because it makes you feel bad. I think it does show a sense of caring on the gf's part that she reached out to you and I think over all it is a positive thing. However, FOR NOW, youa re not ready to have that kind of relationship.

I think what you said about sharing strategies with your X is a good plan but if you ever feel that he is being the butt head he has always been and feel he isn't listening to you, I think you at least have a door open with the gf so I'd say keep the possibility of a relationship with her open for the future. Always keeping the children's needs in mind and what is best for them will keep your thinking on the straight and narrow.

I guess my opinion is just to be honest with her and tell her that you aren't ready for that yet but perhaps you will be some time in the future. Let her know too that you appreciate her concern and her willingness to work together. Everything will change for you when you have a sweetheart and I bet it will be so much easier to deal with them.

Congratulations on the D being almost final!!!

Love,
A
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 01/17/08 07:17 PM
Thanks Althea,

You are probably right about having a sweetheart...if that ever happens. :sad:

I only seem to be getting asked out by guys who I can barely stand for five minutes, let alone a whole evening!!

In any case, now stbx is promoting this idea that a call b/t mothers can resolve issues more easily. Really, what he means is that he wants to be kept out of it, lol!

Anyway, thanks again, and enjoy that yummy martini!
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 01/17/08 07:55 PM
Okay, I've resolved this w/ a reply email to "phone call b/t mothers."

I said that I'm not comfortable dealing with issues b/t S6 and stepbro b/c I don't live there and I'm not a part of the family. Thanked gf for her concern (via stbx - she doesn't have email), and gave them the name of a book that could help.

All this said in a nice, respectful tone, but I really don't need to hear about how stbx "teared up" when talking about S6, with whom he had no R before walking out 2.5 yrs ago. Yes, things might change, but for now, I don't want to be involved.

N
Posted By: almosthopeful Re: I'm almost free! - 01/17/08 08:29 PM
Hi Nic,

This is a touchy sitch, isn't it. Althea's response is very high-minded, and generous as to OW's motives, but I just I don't think I could engage with OW that way this soon in the process.

In my own case, I wouldn't trust Mrs. XH's motives, but she doesn't have children so the whole step bro issue isn't going to come up. And I could be wrong, but I think he** will freeze over before Mrs. XH will contact me!

I truly laughed at your X's passing off the whole parenting thing to the two mom's--I hope neither of you lets him get away with that.

The challenging new dynamics just go on and on don't they. Sometimes I wish they'd just leave the country or something!

Take care, stay warm, and keep us posted.

Hugs,
AH
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 01/19/08 03:02 PM
Just a link to my last thread on MLC:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1199333&page=0&fpart=1
Posted By: Matilda2 Re: I'm almost free! - 01/19/08 03:28 PM
Hi Nic! I am reading along with interest since I am trying to figure out how to deal with D17, H and ow.
Posted By: Bworl Re: I'm almost free! - 01/19/08 03:47 PM
Nic,

I read these types of things where the "new" person in our ex-spouses life wants to "connect" with us and work together, and I can only shake my head.

Has the world really changed so much that common decency and courtesy is completely out the window?

I don't suppose anywhere in the contact with you the OW suggested that she at least recognized that NOW might not be a great time for the two of you to begin bonding over child rearing issues? I don't suppose anywhere did she indicate that she had done enough reading about blended families to realize that child issues are best handled by the biological parent, rather than the step-parent?

If you managed a pleasant email response to her, you did far better than I would have done. Suffice to say that I have had not one single conversation with XW's new man, and would certainly have no interest in any such thing. I have made it clear to my XW that SHE alone is responsible for issues with the boys when they are with her, that her old boyfriend is NEVER to refer to himself as "father" or "dad" with the boys, and that I have no interest in hearing his thoughts about any matters concerning the boys.


Of course, in my case the old boyfriend was the true OM and perhaps that clouds my feelings on the matter.


But my bigger point is that the healing aspects of time and distance are required in these matters. Particularly before we are prepared to address the reality of some other person playing parent to our own children.


It's simply unthoughtful to expect anything else in my opinion.


And I echo Althea's congratulations (however weird that sounds) on your upcoming freedom. After the intial sting, it truly is liberating.


Blessings,

Bill
Posted By: ACJ Re: I'm almost free! - 01/19/08 03:55 PM
Hi Nic,
I'm not as far forward as you and at this stage still hope for a recon with my H (although doubtful it will happen). However I do empathise with the sitch you find yourself in.

I think Althea is right in that you should keep the door open for talks with OW BUT on your terms. I think I would make it perfectly clear that I only want to be involved in anything to do with my own son . Her son is her problem not yours, irrespective of the blended family issue.

Although my S15 keeps alluding to the fact that he thinks he might go and live with H & OW I don't actually think it will happen. Firstly b/c S15 only does this when things are not right between he and I. Secondly b/c unless H moves somewhere bigger he does not have room for him to stay permanently. At the moment it appears he cannot afford to move (as he thought he could) anyway. Thirdly I don't think my Hs OW would actually tolerate S15 living with them for very long. She's 26 with no kids of her own. She's had H all to herself for the last 2+yrs and from what I hear she has been very disapproving of S15s actions to date. I also disapprove of what he has done but I doubt she would be as supportive as I have been (and had to be) and I think he would be thrown out at the earliest possible moment. Not a good environment to send your child into no matter how hard they are to deal with!

Take care.

P.S with regard to the future men in your life. A friend of mine who has never been married but is looking for a partner told me that she soon realised that if you want to know whether you can stand someone for longer than 5 mins you have to see how well they initiate conversation and what that topic of convo is. In her case she has been doing on line dating and realised that all of the exchanges she had had with men prior to meeting them consisted of only one liners from them in response to her paragraphs! This friend is a qualified clinical psychologist and even she had to learn the hard way!
Posted By: whitelight Re: I'm almost free! - 01/19/08 04:38 PM
Hi Nic!!!

I'm so glad that you are doing well!

That is just too funny that stbx wants the two women to solve the children problems that he created! I'm glad that you aren't getting baited.

As far as the not being able to stand guys more than 5 minutes...I understand completely. I went through the same thing. I even started thinking there was something wrong with me as many of the men were perfectly good men. I want to give you hope. There is light at the end of the tunnel. After 2 years of dating, I have finally met the guy!!! He is so perfect for me that it's like God made us specifically for each other. It's absolutely amazing. He's not perfect, but he's perfect for me. He treats me so well. It's a mature and healthy relationship-everything I deserve after all the hard work I put in on myself.

I'm glad that you sound so strong. I'm glad that you aren't getting baited by stbx. And I'm very happy that you are at least still open to love (this is huge) even if it has not occured yet. It will, Nic. It will. ;\)

Much love,
Whitelight
Posted By: I_Still_Love_Him Re: I'm almost free! - 01/21/08 12:02 AM
Hi Nic,

First off, wanted to say how nice it was to see you again. You seem so much happier than you did the first time we met. You definitely seem so much more confident and you should.
Quote:
You are probably right about having a sweetheart...if that ever happens. :sad:

Ok, what is this about? Do you know why people are referred to as "Mr or Mrs Right"? It's because the timing and circumstances are just that, right. So, until Mr. Right comes along, continue to focus on you. With your bubbly personality, you obviously have to problem meeting men. The reason why you can only stand them for 5 mins is because they are not the right one for you. And that is what you deserve so take the time you need to find him. ;\)

As for your H and his gf, they created the situation, they need to handle it. OMG, it's just like your h to shrug off the responsibility of being a parent. It's obvious that gf and he are not able to discuss the issue so she feels you need to be involved...NOT.

The only thing I would watch for is signs of distress on your son's part. If it seems that he is unhappy or anxious or irritable, I would ask your sbtx wth is going on, not his gf.

While your H chose to leave his family and start a new one, your son did not and does not HAVE TO accept or get along with gf's son. He didn't have a choice, your stbx did. If the boys can not get along then I would suggest that your H spend time alone with his son and away from gf's son. The more they force a R btwn the boys, the more resentful your son will become. Your son is your and your stbx's responsibility, not his gf.

I can't imagine she will continue to want to deal with any issue btwn the kids if your stbx doesn't get involved. I've seen this happen.

As far as I can see, if your H wasn't involved in his own children's lives, he certainly won't be involved in her son's life. God help her if they have a child together.

I like your response to her. You are doing just fine. Don't let their problems become yours.

Much love to you,
ISLH
Posted By: amd Re: I'm almost free! - 01/21/08 01:37 AM
I think your email sounded perfect. It appears that gf is becoming part of the regular pattern for XH: dealing with the hard stuff that he can't handle.

And BTW, I find it impossible to believe that a cutie-patootie like you will never find a sweetheart again. Puh-lease!Give yourself some time,babe.

Be well.
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 01/21/08 03:11 PM
OMG! Twice now I have written long replies and been erased! I don't know if it's my new computer or what. I am going to break this up.

Bill:

I am always happy to read what you have to say, so I'm really pleased that you posted on my thread.

Since this gf is not the original ow, the dynamic is not the same as in your sitch. That said, I still have no interest in being her friend or even in working with her on my son's issues. I think she is frustrated with stbx and looking for support - but she won't get it from me. Why did she call? Who knows? For all I know stbx has told her we had an amicable split. I doubt very much that she knows he cheated on me, or that he was still taking me out to dinner and other places w/ the kids when they started dating!

The "piece to resistence" was when she said, "I know D is hard; I've been there too." OMG! Can you say 'clueless'? Yeah, it's hard when your ex is trying to leave you homeless and broke, lol!

Thanks for posting.
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 01/21/08 03:17 PM
Alison:

Thanks for posting. I guess the good thing for teens is that they can decide what type of R they want with their father, whereas my kids are too young to do that, esp S6. He is being forced into a situation that the did not ask for. And his father remains clueless (or is attempting to, at least).

Your friend's idea is interesting. I don't like online dating b/c I think you can tell so much more by just meeting someone in person. I mean, in the first few seconds, there are things you can see that would take days or weeks to "see" online. That said, her thoughts on conversation are interesting. I will keep that in mind!


Whitelight:

I am so happy to hear from you! And with such great news!!! You must now realize how unworthy of you your ex was, and how much better you deserve.

Quote:
I want to give you hope. There is light at the end of the tunnel. After 2 years of dating, I have finally met the guy!!!


Thank you for this. I do still believe in true love, I just want God to hurry up and bring us together, lol!

All my best to you, sugar!
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 01/21/08 03:29 PM
ISLH:

It was really great to see you, too! I'm sorry I got a bit down at the end, but I was better the next day. I think I was hormonal or something, lol!

Quote:
The reason why you can only stand them for 5 mins is because they are not the right one for you. And that is what you deserve so take the time you need to find him


I know you're right about this. You know, I was alone in my M for so long - a good 5 or so years before we split - that I feel like it's time, already!! I am sick of it. The truth is, no matter how many friends and activities I have, I still want someone to share my life with. OTOH, I don't want just anyone, so I guess that's what I have to keep in mind. If I didn't care who it was, I could have someone in a matter of days. But I do care...so I guess I'll have to be - argh - PATIENT!!

Quote:
While your H chose to leave his family and start a new one, your son did not and does not HAVE TO accept or get along with gf's son. He didn't have a choice, your stbx did.


He doesn't seem to get this. I have told him that he can't force a R btwn the boys, but he seems to think he can. Of course, it turns out he's also lied to me, telling me they get along fine, and then the gf calls to say she can't take it anymore! Hmmmm - I see trouble a-brewing there.

Thanks again for your support, and love to you as always.


amd:

Thanks for stopping by, my friend; it's always nice to hear from you.
Posted By: Lissie Re: I'm almost free! - 01/22/08 02:47 PM
Hey YOu.

Nice to see you over here.

Am I to late for booze?

Besos for you my friend.
Posted By: amd Re: I'm almost free! - 01/24/08 04:34 AM
Quote:
The truth is, no matter how many friends and activities I have, I still want someone to share my life with. OTOH, I don't want just anyone, so I guess that's what I have to keep in mind. If I didn't care who it was, I could have someone in a matter of days. But I do care...so I guess I'll have to be - argh - PATIENT!!
I hear you, woman! I still hope this person will be my H, but I think about the possibility of being with someone else...I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, I guess. Just wanted you to know that you're not the only one who wants to love and be loved. Be well.
Posted By: Matilda2 Re: I'm almost free! - 01/26/08 12:43 PM
Originally Posted By: nic

I just want God to hurry up and bring us together, lol!

and that way you can skip the frustration of trying to meet someone who is actually worth dating
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 02/13/08 03:04 PM
Well, I see I haven't posted in quite some time. The negotiating drags on. I sent stbx a proposal six weeks ago, but no response. I asked him about it yesterday - very pleasantly, via email - and he gave me a sarcastic answer back (your L took so long, it wasn't well done, did you really think I'd accept it as is?). Why so nasty? He's getting what he wants, isn't he? So much anger...

So yesterday, after sending me that little love note, he calls all sweet as pie, and asks me if I want to have the kids Sat night b/c he has a "work thing" to go to. Right - Saturday night, two days after Valentine's, he's taking his gf to a work dinner. What am I - brain dead??!! I told him I had plans (yeah - plans to stay home alone and watch a movie, lol), so he asked me for my babysitter's phone no. I didn't want to tell him, but she's good and the kids like her, so I did. (Saw her today and she said I'd always have priority.) WTF is that? I'm supposed to provide free babysitting so he can go out for a romantic dinner?

ARGH!!!

Anyway, this is why we're not married anymore, right? He's a self-centred SOB!

I'm going to check up on a few people now.

Love,
Nicola
Posted By: Lissie Re: I'm almost free! - 02/13/08 03:45 PM
I see That the Rey of sinshine AKA as your X is still up to his old antics.

AHH gotta love it.

WHat movies are you gonna watch for Vday?

Don't forget the wine, babes.
Posted By: MotherMovingOn Re: I'm almost free! - 02/13/08 03:59 PM
Hey Nic,

YOu sound good and I am so happy to hear there's some sweetness happening over there!

Good God woman, you deserve it so much!

It's the flu. He's not as chatty because of it--it's NOT YOU. YOu are the one who is the rockin' awesome babe and he needs to win you.

My SIL always reminds me I need to get out of the "am I good enough for him" mindset and into the "is he good enough for me" mindset. You and I are similarly insecure so we both need to remind ourselves how great we are, how deserving of love we are, and how we deserve to have the kind of mate who will really nurture the part of us that is ready to love again.

I love that we are so parallel in this journey--it's a crazy world huh!?

Love,
A
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 02/13/08 03:59 PM
Originally Posted By: Lissie
sinshine


Did you write this on purpose, or was it a typo?

Brilliant!!

As for what I'll watch, maybe a horror movie! Nothing romantic. Or maybe they are one and the same, *snort* Actually, I might see if a single friend wants to get together on Sat.
Posted By: MotherMovingOn Re: I'm almost free! - 02/13/08 04:00 PM
p.s. this was a reply to what you wrote on my thread--not a reply to your dorky STBX. What a stupid head he is and GOOD FOR YOU for telling him no to Saturday--you're my hero!
Posted By: Lissie Re: I'm almost free! - 02/13/08 04:01 PM
I totally wrote that typ-o on purpose.

;\)
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 02/13/08 04:01 PM
Originally Posted By: MotherMovingOn

It's the flu. He's not as chatty because of it--it's NOT YOU. YOu are the one who is the rockin' awesome babe and he needs to win you.


Thanks, Althea!

Yup, being dumped for another woman sure does a number on the ol' self-esteem, doesn't it? Your thread was good for me to read today.

Love,
N
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 02/13/08 04:03 PM
Althea - yeah I did figure that out!

Liss - you are hysterical! I am going to remember that one.
Posted By: bright_new_day Re: I'm almost free! - 02/13/08 08:38 PM
Quote:
So yesterday, after sending me that little love note, he calls all sweet as pie, and asks me if I want to have the kids Sat night b/c he has a "work thing" to go to. Right - Saturday night, two days after Valentine's, he's taking his gf to a work dinner. What am I - brain dead??!! I told him I had plans (yeah - plans to stay home alone and watch a movie, lol),


My X called me about switching his usal night (Thursday) for Wednesday night. I didn't realize it was Valentine's day when he first brought it up. Good thing I made plans a while back. So sorry, can't switch so he can spend the night with his "she's just a friend". I am going out and having a gooooood time!!! LOL
Posted By: I_Still_Love_Him Re: I'm almost free! - 02/14/08 04:36 AM
Hi Nic

Your STBX was counting on your wanting to spend any possible moment with the kids so that he could get the best of both world; a night out with his gf and the best caregiver for his kids. I know you might have felt guilty for not agreeing to have the kids but hey, if you did have plans, were you suppose to change them so he could go out and have a good time? Not.

The kids are his responsibility when they are with him so the you did the right thing. Now make plans to invite a friend over to watch a movie, share a bottle of wine and some good company.

And Althea is absolutely right; it's not about whether you deserve him but whether he deserves you. You are awesome and don't forget it.

Much love as always,
ISLH
Posted By: almosthopeful Re: I'm almost free! - 02/14/08 02:16 PM
Hey nic,

Happy Valentine's day. Nice going, telling stbx-sh**head that you had plans for Saturday. It was a nice try, as others have said. They really are entirely about self in this MLC mess, aren't they.

Hugs,
AH
Posted By: Lissie Re: I'm almost free! - 02/14/08 02:44 PM
HI ISLH

I have missed you lovey.

Have a great Love day Nic.!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: amd Re: I'm almost free! - 02/22/08 03:00 AM
Way to set some boundaries there, Nicola! You rock!

Althea wrote: "You and I are similarly insecure so we both need to remind ourselves how great we are, how deserving of love we are, and how we deserve to have the kind of mate who will really nurture the part of us that is ready to love again."

I think this is true of a lot of women. I certainly see this in myself.
Posted By: always_14 Re: I'm almost free! - 02/22/08 09:07 PM
OMG. He is such a loser. I love how you see that!

Ugh. I can't wait until your D is final!! YAY!!!
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 02/23/08 06:29 PM
Hello my faithful readers!

Weird stuff going on on the MLC forum - posts being deleted etc.

Anyway, the D negotiations drag on. It's been almost a year now since we started our (failed) mediation. Six weeks after I sent ex the proposal he'd been harrassing me for, I finally got a response, on V-day no less! It was so confusing that neither I nor my L could understand it. My L has called his to get details, but has not heard anything. I've also sent it to a financial advisor.

Also on the 14th, stbx's father died. He had been ill for more than three years, so it was not a surprise. I won't be hypocritical and say I care, particularly; they all pretty much cut me off when their idiot son and I split. My only concern is that this might delay the D!

However, something interesting did happen re. the death, which just proved to me that I'm lucky to be out of this, and that my M really had no chance. The obit had stbx's gf listed as his W, and her son as a grandchild (they've been together about a year). Apparently, the picture at the funeral home incl this other little boy and the gf! How nice that they're all one big happy family! Not only have I been replaced, but my children do not even have exclusivity with their granfather. Now, I didn't expect my name to be there, but could I have SOME respect please? This lack of accountability - not to mention good taste - is not a surprise, and just serves to reinforce by belief that stbx's upbringing has a lot to do with our failed M.

In happier news, things are moving along slightly faster than a snail's pace with my work friend. I am still hopeful that things will end up well there - unfortunately, we only see each other for maybe 1/2 hr twice a week, so that doesn't help. But we are having lunch together next week.

Oh yeah, and the Valentine's dinner was cancelled due to stbx's father! Okay, I'm mean - but I was happy about that!!!

N
Posted By: Lissie Re: I'm almost free! - 02/24/08 09:48 PM
Quote:
However, something interesting did happen re. the death, which just proved to me that I'm lucky to be out of this, and that my M really had no chance. The obit had stbx's gf listed as his W, and her son as a grandchild (they've been together about a year). Apparently, the picture at the funeral home incl this other little boy and the gf! How nice that they're all one big happy family! Not only have I been replaced, but my children do not even have exclusivity with their granfather. Now, I didn't expect my name to be there, but could I have SOME respect please? This lack of accountability - not to mention good taste - is not a surprise, and just serves to reinforce by belief that stbx's upbringing has a lot to do with our failed M.


ICK

sorry about that dear heart.

YOur kids are not lacking any love, thank goodness.

So to heck with those people.

There is a certain relief, after that D paper has been signed.

I hope things work out the way you need them too.

Quote:
In happier news, things are moving along slightly faster than a snail's pace with my work friend. I am still hopeful that things will end up well there - unfortunately, we only see each other for maybe 1/2 hr twice a week, so that doesn't help. But we are having lunch together next week.


So, this is where all that wonderful patience, we have learned comes in? Slightly faster than a snails pace \:\/

It will all be worth it in the end. Have a great lunch.
Posted By: I_Still_Love_Him Re: I'm almost free! - 02/24/08 11:18 PM
How can a grandparent not acknowledge their real grandkids and I don't get the fact that gf and her son were mentioned as being part of the family let alone that STBX and gf are M. God, you are not even D.

You are right, about his family being the reason why his upbringing was so messed up. When we find someone we think of getting into a R with, we should really take a long look at the family they grew up with.

Why is STBX making this so difficult. For someone who wanted the D so badly, he seems to be applying some stalling tactics and now the death of his father WILL either make him speed things up or stop altogether.

Focus on the positives in your life and your new friend. I hope lunch next week goes well.

Hugs,
ISLH
Posted By: amd Re: I'm almost free! - 02/25/08 03:37 AM
Wow, what a classy bunch that family is. You are well rid of all that, babe.

Hope you have a great lunch with the work friend!
Posted By: lovingme Re: I'm almost free! - 02/29/08 07:22 PM
Hey Nic ~ I haven't been here in forever so I thought I would check up on you. Glad to hear things are going well for you even though yu stbx is still a jerk!

Much love!
Posted By: LisaLost Re: I'm almost free! - 03/01/08 03:37 AM
Hey Nic,

I will soonbe in the the Divorce boat too. I am actually excited about it- for now at least- New beginnings. Hopefully things will work out with your d and things will move a little faster. WTheck are they doing not including your kiddos at the funeral home. That is just sad.

Love,Lisa
Posted By: cat03 Re: I'm almost free! - 03/07/08 05:57 PM
hey nic, thanks for your advice on my post, most appreciate it.

I just looked at your bio and see that we've both been in the rollercoaster from hell for about the same time, my hell started Sept 3, 2005.
We've come a long way hon)))))))I look forward to a happy and healthy life.
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/07/08 05:57 PM
Hi everyone!

Negotiations are FINALLY, really almost done (I think). I've been saying this since December, but I think we really will be done by the end of this month.

I spent so much time wishing and hoping that H would come back to me. For what? So that I could be emotionally abused for a few more years? So that I could feel even worse about myself with all the criticism? So I could spend more nights wondering if he would make it home or get into a druken car accident? Someone posted on Althea's thread that there should be a forum for "Dickishness" - I should have posted there!!!

At the moment, though, there is something bothering me - a holdover, if you will, from the MLC board: Unconditional Love.

Now, I don't actually believe in unconditional love among humans, except maybe between mothers (and fathers?) and children, in most cases. But b/t spouses? No. And I don't think that's a bad thing. But I have been very down lately, and it's due in large part to the end of my M. I saw my T yesterday, and he suggested that I really think about what would happen if H did a turn-around RIGHT NOW - stopped drinking, lost his narcissitic tendencies, etc. - and wanted to get back together. What if we did? How could I forget that last several years? Well, the last 10 really, but 6 esp bad ones.

Not that this will happen, but it was an exercise in uncovering my lingering "fantasies" about my M. I told the T that I felt like I "should" be able to forgive him and move on w/ him. T said, "Why?" Hmmmmm - Because I'm a Christian? I never thought being a Christian meant I had to be unhappy, and no one, NO ONE, at my church has given me less than 100% support in the D.

On the MLC bb unconditional love is stressed to the point of - IMHO - choosing it over love for oneself. In fact, even the Bible says that we should love our neighbours as ourselves, the assumption being that WE LOVE OURSELVES! (I mentioned this once and got blasted over there.)

So why am I having such a hard time with this, when I know it's for the best? I am so much happier w/o stbx. Any advice?

Love,
Nicola
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/07/08 06:02 PM
Cat,

My H left in aug 05, but it was going on long before that.

Life can only get better, lol!

N
Posted By: cat03 Re: I'm almost free! - 03/07/08 06:11 PM
Quote:
So why am I having such a hard time with this, when I know it's for the best? I am so much happier w/o stbx.

It must somethign in the air, just today I was looking at my kids and realize Ss can stop loving each other, but kids love you forever. That if I was given a choice between my kids and a healthy good H what would I choose? then I realize it was nonsense, there will never be such choice to be made, and from that good M while it lasted I got 2 beutiful little people who would love me til the end even i were a horrible mother.

The only unconditional love there is, IMHO, is from God to us, we are rotten to the core yet we are loved because we are his children. I don't think you can apply that kind of boundless love to an M, SPECIALLY if the other S has abused and not kept his part of the bargain in the M. We W were told to submit to our Hs as long as they loved us as Christ love his church (he loved her so that gave his live for his church), can we say the same thing about our H/Ws now? NO! so I don't think unconditional love applies here.

Of course you feel bad hon, again, I thought the same thing, how wonderful it'd be to once again have my H in the morn with me, to have xmas and stuff with him, wonder if I could be as happy without a spouse. No, it won't be the same but I can still be happy because only *I* am in charge of my happiness, the Lord will supply the rest, if I never marry, then so be it, this world is only for a little while anyways, my home is up there and one day I will be utterly 100% happy forever.
Posted By: bright_new_day Re: I'm almost free! - 03/07/08 07:42 PM
Quote:
he suggested that I really think about what would happen if H did a turn-around RIGHT NOW - stopped drinking, lost his narcissitic tendencies, etc. - and wanted to get back together. What if we did? How could I forget that last several years? Well, the last 10 really, but 6 esp bad ones.
So why am I having such a hard time with this, when I know it's for the best? I am so much happier w/o stbx. Any advice?


No advice, just sympathy. I know how you feel. I would not want my X back either (it would be a bit awkward now since he re-married 14 days after the divorce anyway!!! LOL) but I am still angry. I thnk my anger stems from wanting an apology for what he did, but all I get are denials. I am sure he would still stand in front of me and try to deny he ever had an affair and still claim that all that time his new wife was "just a friend." I want an admission and an apology that I will NEVER get. I am also angry that he walked away and feels no responsibility for the house he left me to maintain and get ready for sale. He was not great about maintenance (the door from our kitchen to the side porch was borded shut on the inside for 3 years after he broke it getting in when he locked himself out one day). So I am left trying to fix things he should and all I get from him is grief over the house not being on the market yet. He walked out the door and never looked back, playing new family with OW from day one and denying it was a relationship. I took the high road and didn't pursue the adultery divorce because it would have been bad for the kids, but I am constantly accused of being difficult, greedy, bitchy, whatever else.
Okay, that's enough venting. I am obviously still bitter, as much as I wish I were not. And I know I am better off now. So if you find the answer, let me know!
Posted By: Lissie Re: I'm almost free! - 03/07/08 08:42 PM
I am glad that things are getting nipped in the bud babes.

You have been thru alot of crappola, with "Mr, i like to look at myself in the mirror".

So, I know that the end of all this, will help you to move on even more.

As for forgiving him, you do that on your own time, I think. That is something that is between you and God.

You have been very hurt, and you have every right to be angry, just don't let it consume you. And I know it doesn't.

I think back at all that Javier has done, and I was just so tired of hating him. It's not me, and it just doesn't feel right to me.

YOur heart is big, Nic, and loving. Take the pressure off of yourself. You will slowly but surely, do what is right for you. I have no doubt.

smooches, babes.
Posted By: ACJ Re: I'm almost free! - 03/08/08 12:42 AM
Quote:
and I was just so tired of hating him

This stood out to me. Whilst I have been very angry at my H and like most crave an explanation and an apology, I can honestly say I have never hated him.
Posted By: almosthopeful Re: I'm almost free! - 03/08/08 02:20 AM
(((nic))),

Originally Posted By: nic

So why am I having such a hard time with this, when I know it's for the best? I am so much happier w/o stbx. Any advice?



well hi sweetie pie. I'm just chiming in with sympathy, no advice. I do understand and I do feel the same way still. Especially about wanting to forgive but not being ready, able or willing to. Bright new day's comment really strikes home with me: that I want an apology, and I'm not going to get one. This tells me that for me anyway it is still more important to be right than to be peaceful. But I have high hopes for improvement.

What kind of person would you be if you didn't have spells of regret and sadness from time to time? These weren't casual Rs that we had, they were long-term marriages. And good, bad or indifferent, we, the LBS believed ourselves to have been committed to them. It make take some of us awhile yet to fully grieve.

But I'm hopeful for you and all of us.

Hang in there. March is the month of the blues for many of us it seems.

Big hugs,
AH
Posted By: bright_new_day Re: I'm almost free! - 03/08/08 04:21 AM
Quote:
Bright new day's comment really strikes home with me: that I want an apology, and I'm not going to get one. This tells me that for me anyway it is still more important to be right than to be peaceful. But I have high hopes for improvement.


Excellent way of putting it AH. I guess we are all a little stuck because we know a wrong was done and we want an apology....but it just ain't happening!!! So we need to let go and find peace. I am learning. I still have frustration and anger when dealing wiht the X becaue he is so difficult and I am not the submissive wife he knew. But for the most part I am good with everything else. I feel sorry for him. And I feel sorry for his new wife. I don't feel sorry for me!
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/09/08 03:52 PM
Cat, Suzy, Lissie, AH, and Alison -

Thanks for stopping by, and for the sympathy.

I do not hate him - most of the time! I am still angry that he gets off essentially scot free, and I am the one left to take care of the kids - emotionally and physically - borrow from my parents to keep my house, and deal with the stress of being a single mum. Even so, I am actually LESS stressed now than I was when he lived w/ us. The tension b/t us was unbearable.

I am feeling blue at least partly b/c I am lonely. I know that it's better to wait till the papers are signed before getting seriously involved with anyone else b/c the negotiations just take up so much mental space. I must say, though, that I am certainly looking forward to telling Work Guy that I'm FINALLY D'd!!! If that doesn't get him to ask me out, his loss!

Seriously, though, I really am tired of being on my own, but I was on my own for a long time, even while married. I still have a hard time that I will find someone who really loves me, who will treat me well, who will appreciate me, who will stay with me.

I'm tired of hearing that "It will happen in its own time." That's what everyone said about meeting H - and look what happened!

I'm tired of hearing that I "shouldn't need someone." I don't NEED just anyone - if I did, I could find a guy today. But I do WANT someone special.

I see friends, sing, work, take care of the kids, go to the gym...I am busy, but there is still something/someone missing.

Gosh, what a downer. Ugh.

Man, I wish this snow would stop; it is so not helping my mood, that's for sure!

Love to all of you,
Nicola
Posted By: bright_new_day Re: I'm almost free! - 03/09/08 06:00 PM
Quote:
I do not hate him - most of the time! I am still angry that he gets off essentially scot free, and I am the one left to take care of the kids - emotionally and physically - borrow from my parents to keep my house, and deal with the stress of being a single mum. Even so, I am actually LESS stressed now than I was when he lived w/ us. The tension b/t us was unbearable.


I know how you feel Nic. I think it would be much easier if I DID hate the X. He used to tell me that I hated him and my response was just that, that it certainly would be easier if I did, but sadly I still loved him. I guess a part of us always will because we can't just turn off our feelings. And I am also angry about being the one left to take care of everything while he moved right into a new life with the OW and no apparent repurcussions. But I do believe that it is not all that easy, and his tough times are still ahead because he has not dealt with anything yet. And I am also happier now. I rediscovered some of my female friendships that I wasn't able to maintain while married to him. I am in control of my life and it is going well. And my stress level is low....til his number pops up on the caller ID.

Quote:
I am feeling blue at least partly b/c I am lonely. I know that it's better to wait till the papers are signed before getting seriously involved with anyone else b/c the negotiations just take up so much mental space. I must say, though, that I am certainly looking forward to telling Work Guy that I'm FINALLY D'd!!! If that doesn't get him to ask me out, his loss!

Definitely his loss!!! It is too difficult to try to get into something new when you are still trying to settle the old. I also had decided that regardless of my X's adultery, I made a vow when I married him so I kept it. I would not date as long as I was still married. So now I am divorced and beginning to look around. ;\)

Quote:
I'm tired of hearing that I "shouldn't need someone." I don't NEED just anyone - if I did, I could find a guy today. But I do WANT someone special.

I see friends, sing, work, take care of the kids, go to the gym...I am busy, but there is still something/someone missing.


I also have a busy life with work, kids, gym, friends, etc. Right now I really don't think anything feels missing. I do think dating could add to my fun, but I don't think it is a missing piece. I am also real unsure whethter I would ever want to marry again. It's going to be a while before I would even consider it!

I don't want to sound like everyone else who asys that special someone will be there in good time, but I do kind of look at things that way. What is meant to happen will happen. We married our x's because it was meant to happen. We were meant to be with them and have our families. It didn't follow the plan we expected, but we survived and are better for it. Your life will be what it is meant to be, no sense overthinking it!
Posted By: always_14 Re: I'm almost free! - 03/09/08 09:23 PM
((( nic )))

I think everything you are feeling is natural - at least I hope so, b/c I have moments like that, too!

We're human. We like companionship, appreciation, meaning. And, I think that's all it is. I think we're beyond the stage of proving to ourselves, or others, that we need to tout that we "don't need a man"..... look at what we got through without a "bandaid" and how slowly we're taking it to move into another R or not. I think that says plenty about not "needing a man".... but, it's just dang nice to have someone to share the quiet moments and the fun ones, too.

I will say this. It's a miracle, really, that we can feel the desire for someone...it's nice to know we can still feel that way. And, it's nice that we can feel that looking forward, and not so scared of the uncertainty that we keep looking back in yearning to our horrible marital situations.

I am so proud of you.

I love hearing that you deserve something wonderful - it puts a smile in my heart.

My love to you.
Posted By: Lissie Re: I'm almost free! - 03/10/08 12:44 AM
Quote:
I still have a hard time that I will find someone who really loves me, who will treat me well, who will appreciate me, who will stay with me.


(((((((((((((nic)))))))))

Always 14 and I were just talking about this yesterday.

We are moving on, and we are good, and we are doing it.

We survived this damn divorce and the heartache, and the spew.

We survived founding out about the OW.

And then, we think about an R. And it kind of stops us in our tracks. Even tho, we know now, that we are so better equipped to be in one.

It is just that fear. Ick.

I think tho, and i know you hate to hear it. Time heals all things. We will be able to trust fully again, we will find someone who is worthy of us.

When?

It is all in God's hands.

So you are never alone sweetie, even tho it feels like it at times.

Luv ya

hope the snow stops soon.

Posted By: amd Re: I'm almost free! - 03/10/08 03:24 AM
(((Nicola)))

I don't know why this was in the plan, but things happen as they are meant to happen. I hate to bring up the P-word, but I will: PATIENCE.

Your X will get his in the long run. I feel it in my bones.

As for the Work Guy: What's to keep a hottie like you from asking HIM out? \:\)

Be well, friend.
Posted By: whitelight Re: I'm almost free! - 03/10/08 05:17 PM
"I still have a hard time that I will find someone who really loves me, who will treat me well, who will appreciate me, who will stay with me."


You will. You absolutely will. I promise. Seriousely. No doubt. It will happen.

I feel you on the -you shouldn't need someone...you don't!!! But, you are human. And humans are a social species. We need each other and the companionship. If I were you I would join eharmony, just to enjoy meeting new people and to practise going on dates for when the special one comes along! ;\)
Posted By: almosthopeful Re: I'm almost free! - 03/11/08 12:02 AM
(((nic))),

Oh honey this is just a long process, and we are still on the rollercoaster, even after D...

Originally Posted By: nic
I am still angry that he gets off essentially scot free, and I am the one left to take care of the kids - emotionally and physically -



I'm not so sure they are getting off scot free. Definitely not in my case. I can hear a tone in XH's voice when he leaves a phone message for S15...it is almost plaintive. And when I see him hug S15 goodby after a visit...I am very sure that he is getting off as free and easy and he might tell himself.

Originally Posted By: nic
I am feeling blue at least partly b/c I am lonely.

I don't NEED just anyone - if I did, I could find a guy today. But I do WANT someone special.



Yup, yup, and yup. Me too, and the only way I know how to go about finding someone special is NOT to make looking for him my top priority. That never worked for me in the past. Seems to me althea posted something about needing to try out a lot of new guys, just for fun and company, and let it happen when it happens.

I think you should ask work guy out, what the hey, its 2008!

Hugs and more hugs,
AH
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: I'm almost free! - 03/11/08 02:52 PM
Quote:
Someone posted on Althea's thread that there should be a forum for "Dickishness" - I should have posted there!!!

Nic..how 'bout a category called "Hurt little boy/girl in a man/woman's body'.

Nic...lift up your heart. I know this board is for saving a marriage. We all started out that way. But there CAN be a time where the damage is so great...the trust so destroyed...that an M CANNOT continue without making life miserable for the both of you. It takes HERCULEAN efforts on the part of the 'transgressor' to win back that trust....a character flaw in most of the WAW's/MLC'ers IMO. It will take time but you WILL be happy again. You are going to be OK. You will be loved again.

In John Gray's book, Mars and Venus Starting Over, he talks about detachment which is a tad different. He talks about when we connect with our S's, we become attached to THEIR love and, when we go thru this, we think we cannot survive without THEIR love specifically and that no one else will love us. His point is that we must undo that attachment..to THEIR LOVE...and realize that we can find someone ELSE's love...when we are ready. You'll do it.

As for being lonely, that is normal and expected. My only warning to you is that, although I think it's a good idea after this is done...to go out and 'have dinner' etc with others, I would caution you about 'falling in love' too quickly. Start to feel comfy with yourself. Remember...happiness comes from within and if you feel the need to 'rush out and find someone new', you may be condemning yourself to repeating the same mistake. Our radar beams subconsciously look to find the same 'problem'. Stay strong.

Sometimes...the real blame that we should level on ourself is that we just 'picked the wrong one'...we saw signs...they were a loaded gun with a trick hammer, waiting to go off...and we bought the weapon anyway. We should just learn not to repeat the same mistake...and not hold resentment and guilt.

As for 'leaving the kids with you'....I would find that a blessing. Yeah..lots of work. Sadly, now, if my W would 'leave me the kids', it would be the greatest gift in the world.

Frank_d said some very plain and basic words to me which I still hold onto:
-just be, and....


Nic, you'll be OK.
Hugs..love..you know the deal.
FIB
Posted By: MotherMovingOn Re: I'm almost free! - 03/11/08 04:29 PM
Dear Nic,

FIB had a very good point and that is not to go looking for "the one." Seriously. In my limited experience as a post divorce woman dating, I have learned a lot about myself. First of all, I was inadvertently looking for a marriage look-a-like relationship. It's what I knew, what I was comfortable with. My gf said "Althea, it's okay to go out with more than one guy because you're 'dating.'" And then of course her brilliant lady bird analogy. We are the lady birds. The men need to fluff their feathers for us and impress us. It's good and okay to "date" and not get into a serious relationship. When you go on a date approach it with the mindset that you are seeing if he is good enough for you, not the other way around--very important distinction.

I think breaking the ice and going out with some different fellas really helps to change your thinking from "I'm looking for a marriage" to "I'm looking for a date." That's why I think it;s probably not good to limit yourself to one guy at first. It's not slutty or trampy to go on dates--that's a terrible stereotype that's been put on women who want to shop around a little. Men do it without repercussions, women should be able to do it as well.

Don't let going on a date or for that matter dates, scare you--look at it as a fun time and that's all. Try not to size him up as potential husband material right off the bat but rather just look at the experience as a data gathering experience. YOu will learn so much about what you do like, don't like, can stand, can't stand, etc.

I have decided that I am worth being courted and until the man who sees fit to do that for me comes along, I will continue to shop around. If a guy cannot court me and do all the mating ritual things that couples first do in a dating situation, then they are not going to keep up the level of romance I need in a relationship. I have also decided that it's okay for me to want and need that. I am not "needy" but I doknow what makes me feel loved and desired. And if they don't do it, I don't fret about it, I just realize that it's best I find out early on and move along.

The internet dating thing is good I think. It provided a good resource for shopping around and at least provides a venue for breaking the ice.

Gotta kiss a lot of frogs before you find "Mr. Right" and you might as well have fun while you're doing it. We're in our 40's. We're big girls now and we can define our romantic life any way we want. I know that eventually you want to find Mr Wonderful, marriage material man, but it will take time and so for now, try to change your thinking about what it means to date.

Go for it girl--don't be afraid.

Love,
Althea
Posted By: fig Re: I'm almost free! - 03/11/08 04:45 PM
You are so right!!!!

It's Ok to take our time

to try them on

to say we aren't getting married tomorrow
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/11/08 06:31 PM
Hey you guys! Thanks so much for the thoughtful and caring responses.

I will try to address everyone's comments, rather than one at a time. First, meeting men. I've tried eharmony, which totally didn't work for me b/c it seems that there is NO ONE on it (who is compatible anyway) closer than five hours away! I tried a more local site also, but found the quality of men was just not great. Plus, you can't tell, obviously, if there's chemistry or not. And there hasn't been!

Other than that, I actually have no problem meeting men. I don't mean that in a "I'm so hot" way, but hell...I am! lol! Seriously, though, I am friendly and outgoing, approachable, and I will talk to anyone. I get chatted up in cafes, bookstores, the movies - not an issue. I also live in a city that's very open to love and romance. There is lots of flirting here; it's just that kind of place.

All that said, I've met enough men to know what I'm looking for, and I'm certainly a lot more discerning than I was when I was in my 20s. I'm not a date-a-lot type of girl, and not b/c I think it's slutty or anything, it's just not my thing. I'd rather be out w/ friends or at home w/ a movie than out w/ a guy I don't really like. I think was all have ways of approaching this that are comfortable and for me, I just want one special guy.

Okay, so then, what about Work Guy? Here is the sitch. We work at the same college, but in different departments, and our offices are now not near each other at all (used to be close till I was moved). This semester, our schedules are such that we see each other for maybe 15 mins twice a week, and there are always other people around - not exactly conducive to romance!

I did actually invite him to the ballet in the fall, and he said yes, but then had to cancel due to problems with his ex. He did not elaborate and I didn't ask. He told me that would really like to go out, but the timing was bad and he wanted to be friends. This was end Oct/beginning Nov. Since then, we've had some nice long chats; we've both shared quite a bit about ourselves; we get along really well; he has all the qualities that I am looking for. On my part, there's major chemistry, too, and I think for him, but I'm not sure. I don't really know how to tell. He doesn't touch me, but he also seems kind of shy around me, so I'm not taking that as a sign. There are, in fact, lots of baby steps(!) that I think show that he is interested.

I do know that his D was final over Christmas, and he was relieved about that. He's asked me a couple of times recently when I think mine will be done.

The problem is that I don't know if he still just wants to be friends. I have had indications that he does want more - but I could be misreading them (God knows I did that with stbx). I also don't know if I've made it clear that I want more. Maybe he figures I'm happy with the status quo. I have started doing some casual touching, but it's not always easy to do naturally. I have to say, though, that I'm getting pretty tired of wondering what's going on, so maybe I should ask him out again. I'm just scared of looking stupid if he says no!

That's all for now, but I am open to more comments.

N
Posted By: MotherMovingOn Nicola's great catch strategy... - 03/11/08 11:07 PM
I love how you know who and what you want.

Okay then, it's clear what we need to do...

Operation "get the guy."

How is it to be done?

He already said yes to a date and has been sending signals and I wouild say ask him out, but men do like to pursue. Hmmm...Any ideas out there for our gorgeous Nicola?

Let's get some ideas brewing here--a bb full of creative minds has got to come in handy right?

Love,
A
Posted By: princess_nic Re: Nicola's great catch strategy... - 03/12/08 12:01 AM
I love your solution focus, Althea! All this work we've done has got to come in handy right? I think I need to be more flirty and see how that goes - try something different right? But I'm open to more ideas!
Posted By: MotherMovingOn Re: Nicola's great catch strategy... - 03/12/08 03:39 AM
Okay Nic,

Let me gather some stats...

Does he have children?
Are there any office or work events coming up soon?
Do you ever chat or communicate via email?
What have you learned about him that could come in handy if you wanted to woo him?

Anything else pertinent?

You are a gorgeous lady bird. You will have the man of your dreams!
Love,
A
Posted By: princess_nic I am a lady bird! - 03/12/08 03:37 PM
Althea ~

No, we don't ever email b/c he pretty much never checks his! I have emailed a couple of times, but he reads it maybe once a week. It doesn't seem to be a good way.

He has a son the same age as mine. However, if he thinks like I do, he won't want to do anything w/ kids till we get serious (if we do). He also has his son most weekends. He's supposed to have him 3 out of 4 w/e from Friday to Monday, but lately his ex has been leaving the son with him every w/e. Hmmmm, sounds familiar...

I will think about your last question.

The thing is, if I don't overthink it, I'm sure he's interested; it's just when I start thinking too much that I get all anxious. I think I might ask him next week if he wants to get together over the Easter break (we get five days off), even though I know we are both busy w/ work and he has his son.

Thanks for sharing your ideas; you've given me some things to think about.

AH~

I found it interesting what you wrote about the way your XH hugs your son. Mine does the same with the kids, and seems so reluctant to let them go. You're right - that is the price they are paying, although I'm not sure how "expensive" it is for my H. Anyway, I really need to let go of my "need" to see him suffer and just concentrate on myself.

Thanks for posting.

~ Nicola
Posted By: whitelight Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/12/08 05:37 PM
Nic,

Regardless of what happens, it's good to have a crush...

I think just let him know when the divorce is official.
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/12/08 06:05 PM
Hi White!

That was my plan...a few months ago! This seems to be the never-ending *&^* divorce, and I am getting tired of waiting. I do have a feeling, however, that he is waiting for that.
Posted By: whitelight Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/13/08 12:27 AM
I get the impression that he's waiting for the divorce because you wrote this:

"He's asked me a couple of times recently when I think mine will be done."
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/13/08 12:35 AM
nic..just focusing on what MMO said earlier, and,one of the 'men's recommendations' given in a men's 'double your dating' website. The cautionary note they give men is, when going out, the typical American male goes out looking for a wife and comes off as 'wimpy'. The advice they give..which I think is similar to what MMO says and I think SIMILARLY applies is: what does this person offer ME....to compliment MY LIFE. It sounds like you have things in order tho'. No dates for future H's...just for men that YOU prefer to have in YOUR life because they add something to yours. My IC has told me that you have to kiss a lot of frogs now (well...figuratively).

RIBBIT.

FIB
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/13/08 01:00 PM
Originally Posted By: faithisbelieving
My IC has told me that you have to kiss a lot of frogs now (well...figuratively).


I've heard this many times, but I don't actually believe it. I think you just have to meet a lot of people - male and female - and really know what qualities you like about a PERSON, not necessarily a mate.

I also think that people deal with meeting someone differently. I know WL went on lots of dates and has now met a great guy. But then look at Deb and Bill...You just never know what's going to happen.

Thanks for checking in FIB,

Nicola
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/13/08 01:00 PM
Originally Posted By: whitelight
I get the impression that he's waiting for the divorce because you wrote this:

"He's asked me a couple of times recently when I think mine will be done."


Yeah, I'm just getting impatient!!

And kind of paranoid, b/c there is someone new (female) sharing his office now, and I have to admit, I am a bit jealous. Like he's never going to meet another woman in his entire life, right?! I'd like him to become a monk now, till my D is done, lol!

N
Posted By: MotherMovingOn Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/13/08 01:31 PM
Musings from yesterday...

As I said, I think it's awesome that you know what you want and think that you have found it. I am really hoping Mr. Crush is the man for you Nic.

However...I would caution you not to put all your eggs in one basket and here is why: We tend to idealize people we are attracted to and over-look the little red flags that may pop up--we put on our "love-goggles." However, if you are just "dating" rather than looking for the marriage relationship, I think you get a more realistc perpective and a wider view, because you're not hitching your wagon to one horse. Pardon all the cheesy metaphors...it's early!

Not saying that's what you're doing, only saying it is something to stay tuned in to.

With that said, I think it's time to ask him out! Any concerts/events coming up soon that you could get tickets to and pull the old "I've got two tickets to the blah, blah, blah" routine.

Love,
A
Posted By: amd Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/14/08 01:56 AM
OK, I'm going out on a limb here. I don't have kids, so...is a playdate with your respective sons taboo? I honestly don't know. What do you all think?

And whether it is or not, go with Althea's standby of two tickets. Any common interests that you could use for ticket ideas?

Hey, BTW my choir is hooking up with the symphony orchestra and performing Haydn's Lord Nelson Mass. Turns out to be a pretty happy requiem, oddly enough. Think of me on Sunday night!
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/14/08 12:30 PM
Hi AMD,

The playdate is iffy - I really wouldn't want to introduce the kids unless/until I am serious with someone.

As for the tickets, the only thing I have tickets to is the ballet in 6 weeks. I don't really want to buy tickets to something else b/c I just can't afford it right now. In any case, because we are both busy with kids, I would rather be more flexible. His son is his priority when he has him - a quality I like, but that is also annoying, lol!

I've been thinking that we know each other well enough now that I can just ask him if he wants to get together over the little break we have next week (Thurs to Mon). We are both swamped with work, but a couple of hours is not a big deal. I will see him on Monday and gauge things then.

Your concert sounds fun! How great to sing w/ the symphony. I am singing at a fundraiser for S. Africa tomorrow night with a few other choir members - 2 sopranos, 2 altos, 2 tenors.
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/14/08 12:35 PM
I found out that the H of one of my choir friends died very suddenly last week. He was out of the country visiting family, caught a virus that attacked his kidneys, and was dead before anyone knew what was going on. My friend was not even able to see him before he died, as she didn't go on the trip.

His W - my friend - is five months pregnant, and their first child is just under 2. He was a lovely man and a devoted father; they were married for 12 years.

This is so horribly sad, and once again makes me realize how fragile life is. Life is to short to be afraid.
Posted By: cat03 Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/14/08 04:52 PM
oh no, that is so sad! I count my blessings every day, waking up is a huge plus in my book, there is so much to be thankful for as some people truly have it worse than us, my heart and prayers go to that lady, this must be so terribly hard for her for her.
Posted By: BethM Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/14/08 04:54 PM
((((((nic))))))

I'm so sorry to hear about your friends husband. I will keep her in my prayers. Life is so precious.

Love,
Bethie
Posted By: MotherMovingOn Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/14/08 06:24 PM
Quote:
I am singing at a fundraiser for S. Africa tomorrow night with a few other choir members - 2 sopranos, 2 altos, 2 tenors.
Any chance you could get him to come to this event?

What a turn on it would be for him to see you sing!!

Love,
A
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/14/08 08:21 PM
Althea,

Sadly, no - I won't be talking to him again till after it. I would love for him to come to hear me sing sometime, though.

Thanks for thinking of me!

Oh, also, I wanted to thank you for your comments re. being careful with the "love goggles." Yeah - I am very aware of that. At first, I was definitely seeing only the good side of this guy, but now I think I'm more realistic, though I can't really know b/c we haven't spent enough time together. I think I'm actually hyper-aware of possible problems and have to be careful not to be too quick to dismiss a guy b/c he isn't perfect! That's hangover from my M, though - I do take things too personally.
Posted By: MotherMovingOn Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/15/08 11:27 PM
Hope the fund raiser went well today and that you sang like the beautiful lady bird you are!
Love,
A
Posted By: amd Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/16/08 04:42 AM
Nicola, how was the concert?

I am so sorry to hear about your friend's H. How is she doing?
Posted By: Lissie Re: I am a lady bird! - 03/16/08 11:04 PM
Did you sing like the angel that you are?

Ofcourse you did.

((((((((((((((nic)))))))))))

sorry to hear about your friends H.

Luv ya chickie
Posted By: No_hill_for_a_Swimmer Re: I'm almost free! - 03/17/08 12:11 AM
Hi Nic
Sorry you are going through this. I agree with your angst and I frankly do not have much advice to help. I'm terrible at that. In time you will learn to look more forward and back only to review a lesson learned. Takes time and a lot of grief.

The biggest thing I can say is look into 180s and apply that exercise to move on and avoid repeating any mistakes or able to fly the red flags when you see something coming. Pretty general but that the best I can do.
Happiness
Posted By: whitelight Re: I'm almost free! - 03/17/08 05:15 PM
Just stopping by to say hi.

You have come so far. You have been through so much. You deserve a really great guy and relationship. I think this is being prepared for you right now!
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/20/08 09:45 PM
Thank you for posting, my friends!

The fundraiser went well and it was fun. There were some professional singers there, as well as African food, yum!

As for my love life....the saga continues!

I saw Work Guy on Monday. We had a little chat, and then I said I was leaving and wished him a happy Easter. He asked why he wouldn't see me again, and I said that I was off Tuesday and I don't usually see him on Wednesdays, then we are on holiday. The...him: But I'm staying later on Wed b/c I have a meeting, so...maybe I'll see you.

Okay, guys, call me crazy, but to me, that's a pretty big green light.

So Wednesday we go to the meeting together. Afterwards, when almost everyone was gone, I said: Since we have a little break coming up, why don't we get together this weekend?

Him: I have my son all w/e.

Me: All w/e? That's too bad. [flirty]

Him: Well, it also depends on why you want to get together with me.

Me: Blank look

Him: What do you want?

Me: Continue to stare at him, thinking WTF???

Him: Because I'm not looking for a R right now.

Me: Okay

We get up to go, and I ask him to walk w/ me so we can talk. He says sure.

Me: So you're not looking for a R? [or something, don't remember]

Him: No, I really like you as a friend [aaaagh!], but I don't want a R right now.

Me: So it's not just me? [sounds dumb in writing, but I was flirty IRL, not desperate]

Him: [laughs] No, it's not you! I have some things I need to sort out for myself. [I know there's been stuff going on w/ his ex and he may have to go back to court]

Him: It's bad timing.

Me: Still?!

Him: No, not bad timing, I just need to sort some things out for myself first. I'm not thinking about relationships [or something to that effect]

Me: Never? [yes, flirting!]

Him: [laughs] Not right now, that's for sure!

We part ways.

Then, as luck would have it, we run into each other maybe 10 minutes later in the hallway, which happens something like once a month! I was like, damn! Cuz I was pretty upset. He looked at me and looked like he was thinking uh oh! But I just gave him a big smile and said, "Have a great weekend!"

I will continue in another post for those of you who have the fortitude to hear more of my soap opera.
Posted By: almosthopeful Re: I'm almost free! - 03/20/08 09:48 PM
(((nic))),


Hmmmmm...

Well, maybe a friend is what you're supposed to be and have right now?

Or, maybe this door isn't opening 'cause there is a window out there somewhere for you?

Or maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I hope you are okay and not terribly disappointed.

Hugs,
AH
Posted By: MnSPD Re: I'm almost free! - 03/20/08 09:50 PM
nic,

I think I may have some insight for you.... or not. Check my latest post, when it's done. ( i replied to you first.)

Steve
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/20/08 10:00 PM
Okay, so after all this, I was pretty upset. It didn't help that I was completely exhausted from working a lot; it's still freaking snowing; and stbx had called to - literally - yell at me the night before re. the D settlement. (On a side note, I aced that convo, staying completely calm and not rising to the bait, and finally he calmed down. Thank you DB!)

I was thinking: he doesn't think I'm pretty; he's just trying to blow me off; I'll never find anyone, etc etc.

I actually went home and had a good cry and then slept a lot.

When I got up today, I had a clearer idea of what happened. First of all, there have been too many signs that he's interested; I really don't think I've misinterpreted it. He has been a little more distant in the past week or so, which coincides with ex troubles. He didn't say he never wanted to go out w/ me, but that this isn't a good time.

What really stands out to me, though, is this: I have come a long way in terms of living in the moment instead of always thinking of the future. The reason I couldn't think of anything to say when he asked me what I wanted was that I really hadn't thought beyond going out and getting to know each other better. He's already got us in a R! If I hadn't been so shell-shocked, I would have nipped that in the bud.

He is a very straightforward kind of person, as am I, so I think I will just clarify this when I see him next week. We will have had a week to rest up and get some space. I just want to tell him that I can answer his question now, and here's what I want: to get to know each other better and see where it goes, if anywhere. We don't know each other well enough to jump into a serious R - we've never even been alone together! If he wants to go to a movie, or coffee or whatever, he can let me know. We don't even have to call it a date!

And I will leave it at that - he can think about it and get over his shock, lol!

Whew! So that's my tale, boys and girs! How come I still feel like I'm 15?
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/20/08 10:01 PM
Thanks AH and Steve!
Posted By: ACJ Re: I'm almost free! - 03/20/08 10:06 PM
Quote:
and here's what I want: to get to know each other better and see where it goes, if anywhere.


Nic I'd hate to see you get hurt again. Don't you think the ball is in his court now? If he wants you let him do the chasing. JMO.
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/20/08 10:10 PM
Alison,

I've thought of that, but I know him well enough to say something like that; I will think about how to word it. I really think I need to let him now explicitly that I have not been out shopping for a wedding dress! He is a lot like me, and I'm sure he will be mulling this over and will convince himself that I want to rush right into a serious R with him. I do think that it could turn into that, but I don't know.

Thanks for your thoughts,
N
Posted By: MnSPD Re: I'm almost free! - 03/20/08 10:25 PM
nic,

I posted "my" issue and when I replied to you previously, my thoughts were he possibly has similar things running around in his head as I do.

For myself, dating after D is different. Much different. There are many more concerns because of experience and many more "indicators" we recognize that we simply ignored in the past. Throw the consideration of children in the mix and you can see your radar on constant alert.

I don't know how long STBRG (soon to be relationship guy) has been D'd, but he may be sorting many things out in his head, just as I am. It's just different. Put that together with his XW issues and I can fully understand why he may "appear" hesitant.

I think the advice Alison has given to you is spot on. He knows your desire. See what he does with the ball!

Steve
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/20/08 10:35 PM
Originally Posted By: MnSPD
He knows your desire.


But Steve, I don't think he does. He seems to think I've got us walking down the aisle!

I like your STBRG acronym!
Posted By: MnSPD Re: I'm almost free! - 03/20/08 10:40 PM
You've said your piece, if you just let him digest it and maitain confidence in yourself, along with flashing him that pretty smile, he will respond.

I know I would!!!
Posted By: whitelight Re: I'm almost free! - 03/20/08 10:41 PM
Nic,

I'm sorry this guy isn't ready. Many people are really damaged and hurt from divorce and are just not available emotionally for seriousely long time, others jump in head first clinging to the first thing that comes their way, finding out later it's not what they thought it was...

The good thing is that you can have feelings for someone else.

I would enjoy this as a crush at work, but be open to finding love elsewhere.
Posted By: whitelight Re: I'm almost free! - 03/20/08 10:41 PM
Also, it's nice that he's honest.
Posted By: ACJ Re: I'm almost free! - 03/20/08 10:45 PM
Quote:
But Steve, I don't think he does

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he is scared to find out. Was his D acrimonious? Was it his decision or his Xs or mutual? Maybe he is just the kinda guy who likes to do the asking. Maybe he's just not ready for the snazzy 21st century woman you are. Maybe he is scared that you and H will get back together at 11th hour and he will be hurt all over again.

Too many maybe's? That's why I think you need to let him set the pace. You will be so damn hot for him when he finally makes his move that I'll be able to see the light from the fire right here in good old England
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: I'm almost free! - 03/21/08 01:48 PM
nic....I agree. If you are flirting. I think he knows. I stand with MnSPD. He may INDEED be sorting thru things. Take your time..and..don't go there with the looks thing. You ARE beautiful...in and out. FIB
Posted By: MnSPD Re: I'm almost free! - 03/21/08 04:28 PM
Quote:
I was thinking: he doesn't think I'm pretty; he's just trying to blow me off; I'll never find anyone, etc etc.

I actually went home and had a good cry and then slept a lot.


nic,

Are you sure you are really ready? I know from my experience, I longed for companionship and it clouded my judgement. The quote above tells me you are still quite emotional and maybe not quite as comfortable in your own skin as you need to be.

One of the greatest things I've read is; when we realize we are comfortable on our own for a period of time, and we know we can function as an adult and in your / my case a good parent, we then should consider a partner. The reasoning is, the partner doesn't complete us, they should compliment us as a benefit not a requirement.

I hope that makes sense. Sometimes my thoughts don't flow from my head to my hands very well.

Have a very Happy Easter! We colored eggs last night, did the stinky vinegar thing. It brought back many memories. Build good memories with your kids.

Steve
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/21/08 04:44 PM
Thank you all for your thoughts.

And now, of course, I will go ahead and do whatever I want! ;\)

Steve,

Yes, I'm sure that I'm ready. Of course I'm still emotional at times; I am human! The D is just being finalized and it is bothering more than I thought it would; plus, I have work pressure. Sometimes, my emotions do get the best of me. Thanks for your concern.

FIB,

I think you misunderstood re. if you're flirting, he knows. I don't WANT to jump into a serious R with him - we barely know each other. I just want to get to know him better, and I think he assumed that I wanted lot more than that. It actually made me think of you and your post about men looking for a W!

Alison:

You are so funny! I am already crazy-hot for him - believe me, that is a night I look forward to!
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/21/08 04:45 PM
Whitelight,

Thanks for posting. His openness and honesty are two of the things I like best about him. He really is a gem in so many ways.

N
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: I'm almost free! - 03/22/08 04:07 PM
No...I know nic..but, from your post, it sounds like he isn't even ready for THAT.

I know what you are going thru. I went to meet up with a few friends of mine..holdouts from last years HS reunion. We met at a bar/club.

The music was loud.
I wreaked of tobacco (I don't smoke).
Boobs were hanging out....tattoo's/tramp stamps showing.
You couldn't talk to anyone without screaming.

I wanted to go home to my family.....what's left of that word. Take your time.

FIB
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/22/08 07:26 PM
FIB,

Quote:
I know what you are going thru.


I don't think so; I am far ahead of you in terms of getting past this. stbx and I have been S for more than 2.5 years now, and it has been OVER for me for a year.

I know you're concerned about me and I really appreciate it, but the truth is, no one knows how we interact better than myself. I really just posted to get it down "on paper" so to speak. I don't know for sure if he is ready for anything more than a friendship, nor do I know if I even want one with him. As I said, we don't know each other well enough yet.

Thank you for your thoughts, though - I really do appreciate your caring, and I know you don't want to see me get hurt.

What I've realized over the 2.5 years I've been here is that we all post from our own experiences; we can't help it - that's what informs our advice. As Michele says, only we ourselves know the best thing to do in a given situation.

I'm going to see if you have a new thread...
Posted By: Lissie Re: I'm almost free! - 03/22/08 08:25 PM
Quote:
And now, of course, I will go ahead and do whatever I want!


\:D Love it.

Yup, you do your own thing. That is what I love about all this mess, we make our own decisions.

I will add my 2 cents tho, b/c jeepers, why not.

I think that mr. sexy crush, was being truthful .

Yeah he may think that you were talking R? He may not.

I do think the ball is in his court now.

Flash your smile as you do your cat walk down the hall way, and let him be.

He will come up to you, when he wants to get to know you better.

I know what you want babes, and I totally agree with it.

But i just don't think he is at, where you are at.

And I know, I just want everyone to be on the same page as me Jeeesus their life would be so much easier.

Luv ya

Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/22/08 09:54 PM
Lissie! Good to hear from you - you've been very quiet...


Okay, this subject is now CLOSED. Thank you!!


And Happy Easter, all!
Posted By: fig Re: I'm almost free! - 03/23/08 09:06 PM
crap Nic...

I was away from my computer for forever and I missed wher I could have thrown in my advice!!!

Drat!!!

Anyway...I would say do whatever you want, say what ever you want...

I am too old to play games and it is a lot easier doing whatever you need to do to feel ok with yourself.

have fun with the crush
crushes are yummified!!!
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/23/08 10:28 PM
Fig -

As long as your advice is for me to do what I want, I'm all ears, lolol!
Posted By: LisaLost Re: I'm almost free! - 03/25/08 04:54 AM
I love crushes, I have a HUGE one myself right now but... I am nowhere near ready for anything- but man it feels strange that another man can make me feel so goo-goo gaa gaaa. Have the same feeling Nic?


Love,Lisa
Posted By: whitelight Re: I'm almost free! - 03/26/08 04:33 PM
Happy Belated Easter, Nic!
Posted By: fig Re: I'm almost free! - 03/26/08 04:41 PM
update please!!!

Posted By: LisaLost Re: I'm almost free! - 03/27/08 01:11 AM
Hey Nic!!

What's happening?

Love,Lisa
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/27/08 07:15 PM
I figured I'd have to start a new thread, and I don't know what to call it, so I've avoided updating.

But since dear Figlet asked, here it is:

I did talk to him. He looked a little unsure when he saw me, so I'm glad I did. It was very quick, and I just said that it was a misunderstanding, and I don't want to jump into a R either, I just meant getting together in a friendly way.

He said he hadn't known how to take my invitation, and I answered that I know, I'm sorry, I should have clarified, but the conversation got away from me.

He said ok. I asked if we're still friends, he said, "Of course! We're not enemies!" Then I said, "I don't want to make you uncomfortable." Him: "You're not." (smiling)

So I was still kind of stressed out, and feeling stupid/disppointed/like I ruined everything etc.

Anyway, we ran into each other again today (running into each other randomly is unusual; I don't know what God is up to, if His hand is in this! This always seems to happen when I have something nerve-wracking that I feel I should say or do). So, back to my story, again it was v. quick. We are all really busy right now. But he said hi first with a smile and then stopped to chat for maybe five minutes. I was making photocopies and he was getting ready for class. Everything seems fine b/t us.

I am going to submit this so I don't erase it and continue. Don't reply yet!
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/27/08 07:21 PM
Okay, some thoughts:

I am back where I was a couple of weeks ago, WRT this guy, and that is a good thing, i.e. we are back to being friends w/ no pressure. I was feeling so down b/c I had wanted to hurry things along at MY desired pace, but we all know what a good idea that is! I am stressed myself w/ D negotiations and work, so I really don't need to add anything more to my plate either.

I have NOT screwed up royally and ruined any chance we have.

I appreciate his honesty and will respect his boundaries and NOT be angry at him! I just realized last night that I was mad at him for not being ready for a R. How respectful is that, lol?!

I do not know where this will go. This is a special man and we really get along well, but we do not know each other well enough for me to say more than that. The term ends in six weeks, and then we may or may not see each other in the summer - that will be his call.

I will not close myself off to other possibilities, but I recognize that I am very vulnerable right now, and I need to focus on myself right now.

Freakin' patience!!!!!

Thanks for thinking of me,
Nicola
Posted By: fig Re: I'm almost free! - 03/27/08 07:26 PM
i have the patience of a sock so I know EXACTLY what you are talking about

I think you did great
and
it is never bad to clarify

and

aren't you glad you did? otherwise there would have been awkwardness

yuck

awkwardness sucks!!!!

Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/27/08 07:38 PM
Yes! I do have to see this guy, so as scary as it was, I really felt like I needed to take it in hand (I wish *snort*).

Man, God's timing sucks.
Posted By: fig Re: I'm almost free! - 03/27/08 07:38 PM
but in the end it is probably better than ours

i mean

crap

i wanted to stay with my ex!!!!!

Posted By: MnSPD Re: I'm almost free! - 03/27/08 08:09 PM
NICOLA!!!
Posted By: MnSPD Re: I'm almost free! - 03/27/08 08:17 PM
NICOLA!!!
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/27/08 09:22 PM
Fig - yeah I wanted to stay with mine too. What do I know!

Steve - Well, he's really hot!!
Posted By: ACJ Re: I'm almost free! - 03/28/08 08:12 AM
I'm glad you sorted things out with Mr Hottie Nic.
Posted By: amd Re: I'm almost free! - 03/28/08 10:11 PM
Hey, you may not agreee with God's timing, but we've all learned that fighting it doesn't do any good. Embrace it. Go with the flow. Enjoy the friendship and see where it leads...
Posted By: almosthopeful Re: I'm almost free! - 03/28/08 10:16 PM
We can all prop each other up in the patience department. Along with acceptance, that must be one of the biggest lessons of this little life event.

Hugs,
AH
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/29/08 01:02 PM
Alison, AMD, AH,

Thanks for posting.

AMD, I am so NOT a go-with-the-flow person, but I think this is one of the many times I'm going to have to do that. I accepted that last night and am feeling a lot happier today.

Now I really will have to start a new thread. If I can just think of a title...
Posted By: princess_nic Re: I'm almost free! - 03/29/08 01:08 PM
New thread:

Trusting God's Plan
Posted By: I_Still_Love_Him Re: I'm almost free! - 04/02/08 04:27 PM
Hi Nic

It's been awhile since I've been here and it seems to me that you have figured it all out with hottie Teacher.

It's amazing what we can learn about ourselves through this process. You realized that you were vulnerable and that maybe you were trying to speed things along. I do believe that with the upcoming D, you were trying to find comfort in someone else. God does have a plan and yes if we go with the flow, we will know what his plan is.

Now there is nothing wrong with being friends. Friends share so much more about themselves and what better way for you to get to know him. ;\)

Love to you,
ISLH
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