Alive and Kicking!!!!! (CM # I lost count)

Good day everyone.... Long time no post.

So much has transpired I don't know where to begin.

Cros is on a low dose of Adderall and it is helping. It should probably be more but we will see. Her grades have improved and so has her attitude which is good.

I received a call last week from the school in a panic. CL had dropped off Crosby with medication in hand and was going to have her take it at school. They called CL and the nurse was explaining to her that it was against the law and CL was being abrasive to the nurse. The nurse put her on hold and CL hung up b/c "i had to work". Well excuse me... We are talking about our child. So I dealt with the school and made it VERY clear to them that we were NOT married. They tried calling CL back and she wouldn't answer.

She hangs up on people when she doesn't like what she hears. It happens to me all the time.

She didn't return paperwork to school last week that needed to be returned. She called and asked me what time would be good to set up a conference with the teacher and I told her, but I had to schedule it b/c she failed to do so.

I went to Boston last Wed. to see Iron and Wine in concert with Ms. V. I had a great time. It was very low key. We just hung around most of the weekend.

After being picked up at the airport on Wed. I talk to Cros and then she calls back and tells me that mommy had told her that Val and I are bf & gf. I didn't lie, but I did talk to CL about it. It was not her place to tell Cros. CL then keeps calling me back telling me that Crosby is very upset about all of it and that I had lied to Crosby. So I would talk to Crosby about it and she said she was doing ok and that she knew mommy and OM were BF and GF. I told CL that her irresponsibility was driving me nuts and that she needs to make some changes if she wants to continue to be a full time parent with the kids. I told her it is obvious to a lot of people that she is not making them her first priority.

Cara called later that night about all of it and proceeded to tell me that I was an a-hole and that she was no longer going to have Crosby go to Kristin's house after school. I replied that her "guilt, anger and absentmindedness should not be taken into consideration when we are talking about what is best for our D"

She proceeded to tell me that she hates me and I told her I understood why... "I get the feeling I am breaking your heart and that is not my intention. I am just taking myself and my children to heart and doing what is best for us." Her response was that "You and Val are forming this happy little family and want to take the kids from me so you can get married and have the time of your lives." I basically said that she is the mother of the kids and always will be and there is no talk of a "happy little family". I would bet it all that she didn't hear 1/4 of my end of the conversation and in reflection she has never really heard me.

During the course of this convo I asked her on two different occasions how the subject of Val and I came about with Crosby. Both times the answers were different, which I knew they would be. I told her "It is sad that I have to get the truth from my 7 yo daughter." The conversation ended there.

When I was in MA a few things occured with Val that require her to move and leave MA for the benefit of her and her daughter. I don't want to divulge all the details, but there are people who know the situation here on the boards. Well, things started falling in place yesterday and so I made the announcement to Cara that she "might" be moving down here and will need a place to stay until she gets on her feet. (I would do this for any of my friends.... but don't start asking for a vacation home in orlando please!! $\:\)$ ) Cara was ok with it (b/c she can't do anything about it) but of course tried to bash Val. She has the fear that Val will become the mother to her kids. Understandable, but not going to happen and I tried to reassure her.

sidenote: If/when V does come down here we are at an understanding that this is NOT permanent. Neither one of us wants a live in relationship. She wants her own place for her and her D and I want the house for the kids and I. We are also not going to sleep in the same bed when my kids are there. I do not want to subject them to something they might not be ready for. This is first and foremost about me being a friend to her and helping her get on her feet.

I told her that she is putting a lot of effort into not liking someone that she doesn't know and who has offered herself up to conversation with Cara regarding the kids. (shows the difference in maturity level)

I'm taking the kids up to MA at the end of Oct. for Val's D's b-day. Crosby has been begging to go to Boston, so we are going. Cara of course wants to have an issue with this "it's so far" yada yada. I told her that she has taken the kids to NE and I've taken them to KS alone. We will be fine.

So.... Here I sit. I should be working, but thought I need to check in with people.

Hi CM:

Quote:

When I was in MA a few things occured with Val that require her to move and leave MA for the benefit of her and her daughter. ... Well, things started falling in place yesterday and so I made the announcement to Cara that she "might" be moving down here and will need a place to stay until she gets on her feet. (I would do this for any of my friends.... but don't start asking for a vacation home in orlando please!!

Quote:

I'm taking the kids up to MA at the end of Oct. for Val's D's b-day. Crosby has been begging to go to Boston, so we are going.

I suspect that Crosby already views Val as an adult that is family. I suspect you do too - it is unlikely if you were M that you would ask your W if Val and her D could move in with you. Val is an adult. How would she have handled the situation if you had not come into her life? She may have to leave MA - but I do not understand why she "needs" to move in with you.

If Val and you do not work out - Crosby will have to deal with the loss of another adult that she is growing to love. The level of attachment that Crosby has developed with Val and her D is evidenced by her begging to go to Val's D's B-day.

Having Val move in with you - even temporarily, will reinforce the notion that you and Val are couple - not "just friends". The separate bedroom thing is simply semantics. Kids are much smarter than that and will pick on the non-platonic R between the two of you as will be manifested by your interactions. The kids and neighbors will view you as a couple. In all likelihood - Val will participate in taking care of your children while she is there - in a "motherly" manner. You will probably all sit down together for dinner - like a family. You will go out on outings together as like a family.

I am concerned about how your children will react to Val moving in. I am also concerned with how your children will react if you and Val do not work out. They have already been through the separation of you and Cara. I personally would not subject them to the loss of another adult that they are coming to view as a mother figure.

If you decide to have Val move in - even temporarily IMHO, you need to view the situation as "creating" a family when it comes to how your children are perceiving the situation.

take care,
AG

Sorry Ty...I kind of have to agree with AG. I told you yesterday when you told me that CL told Cros that you and Val were a couple that I never would have even let the kids meet Val and I stick by that. IMHO, it's simply way to early to be introducing your kids to her. And I know you did it as if Val was just a "friend" but they will see the connection just like everyone else. And yes you would do this for any other friend...but the fact is, Val is not just a friend. Andd that unfortunately makes this different.

I know the situation is difficult and I know you want to help her and I really do want to see her get down there...for her...just not sure it's a good idea to have her staying under the same roof as you and your kids. Is there no way for her to line up some type of job prior to coming down and getting even a 1 bedroom place? How about even staying in a cheap hotel room on the nights you have the kids and then with you the nights you don't...

AG and Swash... I see your points. I really do. However, I have discussed this with more than one counselor and was told to wait a year (conservatively) before introducing them to someone else.

Now I ask the both of you... If you had a friend in need who needed a place to stay and was a member of the opposite sex would you turn them down? If not wouldn't they be viewed as part of the family? Even a member of the same sex? And, what would happen if things didn't work out between the two roommates?

Do we not introduce people in our lives to others for fear of loss or do we introduce them b/c we want to share these people with others who are close to us? Do i keep my kids from my 83 year old neighbor whom they love because he is old and could not be with us anymore at any point?

Please do not take any of this as angry. I am not and I always appreciate a good critique. I also know the entirety of the situation whereas most of you do not. And I do not care to completely share another person's life without their approval.

AG- Crosby has been begging to go to Boston, not Val's house. We just scheduled it around the same time so there will kids to play with. (That means you Swashy!)

You are predicting the future my friend. You are living in assumptions. Please give me an example of the "non-platonic" behavior you speak of. There will not be physical intimacy in front of my children. This hasn't even happened and you say that my kids will view her as a mother figure? My kids have been hanging around the OM since last Dec. I cannot control that and how they view him. I can however control me and my interactions with Val in front of my children.

My D knows we are a "couple" in the way a 7yo can. What that means to her I am not sure. We will part ways eventually when she gets her own place. But, the circumstances at this point prevent her from affording that right now.

Swashy- I ask again. How will this make this different? Take the physical part of the relationship out and how is it different? I think you fail to take into account me and the person I am. I'm a bleeding heart. I hug guys. I cry. I care about humanity in general. If this were you, Lisa, Mo, Ian, HS, Shoe.... I would do the same. We wouldn't be sleeping together and I love all of you. Sure, we would probably go do things together and eat together on occasion. But, I would also take my kids and do stuff just with them.

I see a big difference here Between the thoughts of myself and HS (correct me if I'm wrong HS and I will probably be able to explain more to you later since you do know her) and those of AG and Swash.... Do not take offense.

It is assumptions and expectations... I have none of this situation. Val will come down here when the time presents itself. A plan to deal with reactions of others is pointless until then. I have and will continue to do what is best with my kids first and foremost. To say that they will view Val as a mom or us as a family is the same for me to say that you will get in a car wreck this afternoon. Are you going to walk home today?

Ty...Val is your girlfriend. That is a fact. She is not me, Ian, Shoe, Lisa, Mo...or anyone else. And I guarantee you that if you went into a room of 20 adults - most would figure it out just by the way you interact with one another...regardless if any physical contact is made. The way you talk, laugh and look at each other would do it. And I'm willing to bet that this will also come across to Cros...and probably already has actually.

So now the message is, mommy and daddy get divorced and moved onto new relationships. Maybe that is what you do in life, when one relationship fails you just move onto a new one. Fill that hole. A year? Is that from divorce, seperation, what?

Let me ask you this Ty? How does having your kids exposed to this relationship HELP her? I think the fact that you are so concerned on how to handle your interactions when you are together with your kids is sign enough that it is the wrong decision.

I'm not saying that she doesn't move to FL. I really think she should...I just don't think that the two of you living under the same roof sets a good example for your children. She used to live down there...does she have any other friends she can stay with? I have to assume that this will not be a long term situation...a few weeks maybe? Is she looking for a job?

I know that when I moved to WI 15 years ago I had hardly a penny to my name but I managed to find a job and a place to live within a week. Was it easy? No...but I did and I have to believe that she can too.

Reading all of this got me to thinking about you HS. How are things between you and your long time friend? How did you handle that with your D?

BTW CM, I am not saying you should or should not press on with your plan. I would say it will require due vigilence on your part to control the unintended consequences.

Hi CM:

Quote:

If you had a friend in need who needed a place to stay and was a member of the opposite sex would you turn them down? If not wouldn't they be viewed as part of the family? Even a member of the same sex? And, what would happen if things didn't work out between the two roommates?

I agree with Swashy's answer.

Val is an adult - she can take care of herself. She will find another solution. You are not the only person in the world that can help her - if you are that is a red flag in your R... That is another issue. If you really feel that strongly about helping Val - pay her rent for a 1 bedroom apartment.

Since the bomb, Crosby has already had to deal with the "loss" of an ideal version of a family, her mother havig a new bf, and her father having a new gf.

Loss of an 83 year old neighbor is different than losing a mother figure. If Val is as great as you say she is - well she will probably treat Crosby much like she treats her own daughter. And with the "ideal family void" in her life - your D will become increasingly attached to Val.

I am sure you will make every effort to be platonic. Crosby already knows you are bf and gf. What are you going to tell her? We are bf and gf that do not act like bf and gf.... very confusing...

Quote:

To say that they will view Val as a mom or us as a family is the same for me to say that you will get in a car wreck this afternoon. Are you going to walk home today?

The probability of a of being a car wreck analogy... Is the Val risk like driving a Yugo or a Hummer? If the risk of Val being viewed as a Mom is comparable to surviving a collision in a Hummer in the US (not Iraq)- you have my blessing!

take care,
AG

So let me get this straight. What I am hearing you say is that if Val and I were together for 2, 3 10 years this still wouldn't be right of me to be a decent person b/c of fear of the unknown? That we might not last? That we might break up and it could hurt the kids?

True... if something were to happen to our relationship it would hurt the kids. But, if we live in the same town and hang out together such as CL and the OM with the kids, won't that hurt them as well? My D is attached to the OM's D like nobody's business. I cannot control that.

Swash... Just b/c I show concern for how I handle this with my kids has nothing to do with it being right or wrong. It has to do with me putting my kids first and being good to them.

What is a good example to my kids? I feel that by opening my doors to someone in need is a pretty damn good example and the door has already been open. I am not going to shut it now.

AG- I will not say what the risk of Val is... but with our communication and the separate concern for the well being of our children, I would say it is very low. She is already looking for a job without even knowing when she will be down here and is also looking for places to live. Her stuff will be going into storage until she finds a place.

There are some issues here still with assumptions. The assumption that consequences are going to arise. That the relationship will end. That this will have a very negative effect on Crosby. That this is the wrong thing for everyone?

I love to intellectualize and find proof in things. I would like to pose a question to you AG and Swash and whomever wants to answer this: Where do you get your proof that this is the wrong thing to do? Is it your own issues or morals? Is it a factual statement derived from someplace? Is it the want of your old R back and not willing to venture ahead?

We all ended up here b/c we took our spouses for granted (more than likely) and ASSUMED they would always be there for us.

I will continue to be a great father and I will continue to be a great friend. I am divorced. I have two kids to support and love and I will continue that until the day I die.

Hi Ty,

Considering what our kids have been through I do believe that everything we do has to be done taking their well being as our first consdideration. I believe that you do want to do that for your kids. I don't feel I know you well enough to tell you what is right for your sitch, and right or wrong, I don't have to live with any consequences that may arise from their choices.

What I do believe is that you and Swashy are friends and he is giving you his point of view as a parent and friend. As parents we have all seen first hand the sadness and confusion that our kids have already had to live through and none of us want to be the cause of anymore stress in their lives. Of course nobody knows your child as you do or the kind of bond that is between you.

My advice is to always be honest with your child. I believe that the first best thing we can give them is for them to know we love them unconditionally and the second thing is for them to know that when we tell them something they can take it to the bank! This parent gig is tough!

Good luck.........

Who said anything about 2,3 10 years Ty? Not me. And that is not the situation. You are recently divorced Ty. You have had a long distance R with Val for what...5 months? And my concern isn't if it will or won't last as much as the message it sends to your kids to be in a new R so soon after becoming D'd.

So do you think that CL is doing the right thing? If not, why are you following suit? Maybe not to the same extent..but you are. You are introducing your significant other to their lives.

And this is MY belief and I guess you could say morals. That is where it comes from Ty. You can and will do whatever you want. You certainly don't need to take my advice. It is not what I would do if I were in your shoes. That is all.

And obviously the "Is it the want of your old R back and not willing to venture ahead?" comment is directed towards me...so what do you say we address that. No..I do not want my "old R" back. I want a new and improved R with the woman I married and vowed to spend the rest of my life with. That is what I want for me and my kids and even my W. Will that happen...i highly doubt it. But my W is not your W and my R was not your R. I believe and trust people can change if they choose to...because I know for a fact I did. So I have not shut her out and abandoned her or our M. Am I trying to face the reality and move on - yes - because I feel like that is what is healthiest for me. But if she turned around tomorrow I would do what I feel is right for MY kids and me work on my M.

You do what you feel is right for yours.

I will Scott. You know that. And no... That was not directed at you. It was in a list of things that I could have kept running with but I chose not to.

Many people hold on for so long only to know in their hearts that they really don't want that person back.

It is something I have been dealing with here at work and my good friend Lis. She is severly co-dependant and her bf called it off after 8 months of being a "couple". I asked her if she would take him back if he turned around tomorrow and she said no... so I asked why would she still hang on? That is where the venturing part came from. I saw that in myself.

Codependants are like addicts when it comes to our relationships. We lose our drug and yet we look for every opportunity to get our fix. One phone call, one text message, one smile to give us a glimmer of hope. We get that and we carry on until the high goes away and we search again instead of going through the withdraws of the loss and "venturing" ahead.

Sorry for the tangent... Not directed towards you Swash.

Can H & I come and stay over in Oralndo before we go to Destin?

This will have to be when we've got some cash, and consdiering we spend it all on beer and wheelbarrows could be some time!!

(I don't have anything to say about Val or your kids, I'm not a parent myself so I tend not to comment on kid issues. I just popped in to be random) $\:\)$

Hi CM:

Quote:

I would like to pose a question to you AG and Swash and whomever wants to answer this: Where do you get your proof that this is the wrong thing to do? Is it your own issues or morals? Is it a factual statement derived from someplace? Is it the want of your old R back and not willing to venture ahead?

I have no proof. Just personal opinion based input for you to consider and regard/disregard. Ultimately you are one of Crosby's primary caregivers and the decision is yours and only yours to make.

If you think it is a good idea - that is all that matters in the end.

take care,
AG

Hey Ty

Long time, huh? I hope you and the kids are doing well. I just
have to say that HS's last post was very similar to how I feel.
Knowing all of the highs and lows of your marriage has been very
tough to go through...you have done an excellent job in self-
preservation.

Pesonally, I don't see a problem with Val coming down here and
staying with your family. I know you will keep up the appearance
of a friend to the kids. With her being closer, it will help to
clarify any questions or thoughts you might have. The kids have
already been exposed to Cara's significant other and have done
well in adapting to him. To present a picture to them, that you
don't deserve love or attention, speaks volumes to maladjustment.
You have been open and honest to the kids - answered their ques-
tions as they arise...with Val coming down, there will be alot
more to answer. Keep it open and honest - on their level.

You may have been recently divorced, but the marriage died long
ago. Yes, everyone states about a year to shrug off any bad
baggage from a previous marriage or relationship...but you have
done that in a shorter amount of time. In fact, Val helped you
in more ways than one. Children know a lot more than we give
them credit for...they know Cara will always be their mother and
you their father. So, stating that...you are entitled and will
be encouraged to progress, whatever way you feel to go with Val.
I'm sure she thinks about the same thing...you are both adults
and will deal with it, as it comes.

So, have fun, enjoy yourself and I think that it's very nice on
your part for helping her out. Tell her I said "Hi!".

Ty, I am going to third the opinions here from 1210 and HS.

Part of the problem is that as we grow people tend to forget that we have grown emotionally and our decisions are based on logic and thought.

Personally Ty, I have faith in you, and Val for that matter. It's not like this is a new relationship, you have been talking and seeing each other for 10 months now. Jesus, at what point do you share your life with your kids.

Here's the deal, from my perspective. At some point your children will be introduced to someone new whether it be Val or someone else. They will grow attached and if it doesnt work out, they will be hurt. Guess what, part of growing up is learning to deal with hurt, anger, and pain. How we teach our cildren to deal with such things helps to establish their character.

Ty, your a big boy, you did a great job DBing and getting through your sitch. You are moved on and with someone wonderful who is going to be part of your kids lives. Take your time, make the right decisions, and do what you need to do.

I love you bro..... And, I have a ton of faith in you and will be here for you as you move forward, just as the others with differing view points will be.

Ian

HS-

Beautifully put. But it can't be credited for much since you are my brother from another whore mother.

It all comes down to an issue of trust. (Ian you are so right) Not an issue of trust with others or even our S/XS/dead mules. It is an issue of trust within myself. Am I doing the right thing for me? Am I doing the right thing for my kids? Do I trust myself to follow through with what I say I'm going to do? YES... most definitely.

Cl is of course having a tough time with this. She is wanting to take different avenues to prevent this. She voices her concern over one the "the only thing" she has a concern with, only to turn it around and have a more important concern. (which I actually told her she would do, before issue #2 and #3 came into play) All based on assumptions of course.

It is all about control. Looking for an avenue that will get me to turn around to her way of thinking. I asked her if she trusts me when it comes to the kids and she said yes except for certain situations. I told her either she does or she doesn't. She said she does and I told her that she has her answer.

In all honesty I need to stop getting myself sucked in (just like old times). What will happen, will happen. I have no control of the outcome of this. Just control of me.

Thank you Ian. I love you too. And, HS and 1210 and many others. I actually started that last post before my phone rang with CL on the other end.

I do love the differing opinions. I think it helps us all grow to hear a different side. Even if it is Swashy's opinion!

(You know I love you Swash!!!)

1210-

Oh how I've missed thee. I'm so poor at keeping in touch. I always have been. I was hoping to see your input on this sitch. And I do tell Val you say hi everytime!! In fact, there might be a day that we might need to take a trip and we might just see about dinner and some hot muu muu dancing!! Thank you for your blessing..... it does mean TONS!!

TB, you asked me a question on my thread however I would feel more comfortable answering you via email. Do you have one I can send my response to?

Fender-

tyreimer@gmail.com

You got mail.

We had a parent teacher conference yesterday and things seem to be getting a little better since the introduction of the meds.

I then took cros to the pill pusher (psychiatrist) and we discussed a few things.

I asked her about the whole val thing and received a reply that p*ssed me off to no end. She told me that it doesn't look good in God's eyes. And that is not the type of person I should be as a christian parent.

Who said I was Christian? I didn't ask for her moral input only her professional input. If I'd wanted to be witnessed to I would answer the door on any given saturday.

Anywho. Things are moving right along. Nothing more exciting in my little world.

I have never heard of a doctor telling a patient that something wasn't christian. Wonder is she would have said that to Ian?

Glad to hear things are moving along in your "little world" or like a friend of my says, "on his planet."

Ty, we both know there is no "one size fits all" answer. Trust yourself to do what is best for your children. I know you have their best interest in mind always.

Ty

...AAACCCKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your psychiatrist for Crosby, has to be the most unprofessional,
judgemental, and unethical doctor that I have heard of. There is
no room, in psychiatry or psychology, for personal assumptions -
unless, it is specifically asked for. It is the concern, for the
patient(s) to present an unbiased, medically founded, resolution
to the areas of issues. It is the doctor's duty to use any form
of medicine to correct any imbalances that may have direct impact
on the day-to-day functions of the patient.

However, not knowing how you begun informing her about the plans
with Val coming down here - I would assume that your interest was
the outcome on Crosby. It still does not allow her personal,
religious feelings to be known. In psycho-therapy, it's the aim
of the therapists to re-direct any questions/doubts a patient has
on specific issues, back to the patient to come to their own
conclusions via thought processes. Of course, the thought pro-
cess is guided very well, to keep it on a goal-oriented path.
No where, will you find religion brought into the scope used as
a means of guilt. Unless religion is brought up...it's never
a focus. That's not to say it isn't important, it's just too
personal and usually isn't suggested unless the patient brings
up the need.

The implication that Val staying in your home temporarily, is
deemed immoral, from her, exceeds her line of responsibility.
I would have said something back rhetorical...that is unexcusable
on her part.

God meant for us to be happy, in peace, not harming anyone and
living in his light. HE also knows that we make mistakes and
HIS son died for our mistakes...we will always make mistakes and
as long as we correct them and do our best for each other with
no hidden motives, we will be blessed. We are not perfect and
never will be...No matter what form of religion you believe in,
the basic principles are there.

I would not divulge anymore information to your psychiatrist for
Crosby, unless it deals with Crosby and anything that might upset
her, personally. The "shrink" has already judged you...that is
unethical...

Do not lose any sleep over this...

TY, you are stronger than I am dude. I would have lit that Psych up if she had said that to me. What a judgmental statement.

Ditto to 1210's post my friend. The only thing I would add is that if her statement made you feel uncomfortable with her ability to give Crosby proper treatment then find a new therapist for your D. Reality is, if she can judge you in that manner, what is to stop her from doing the same to your daughter?

Ian

Maybe I'll sue the pants off her and buy a big house for DB folks to come and stay at when they want to visit the tourist hell I call home!

Today she actually sees the therapist. I like her. She keeps to Crosby which is what we are there for.

Fri and Sat night I dealt with a little girl who kept getting out of bed. This became very aggravating to me, b/c I know that her mom lets her sleep with her when she gets up. I don't. And not b/c I don't want to, but I was advised that she needs to understand that I'm ok and she doesn't have to fill the female role in the house.

Long story short
We discussed on Fri what was going on and she said she missed mommy. I explained to her that I could understand that, but getting up and not sleeping wasn't going to help the situation. She said she was mean to mommy on Thur and she apologized but didn't know if mommy believed her. I told her that she did what she could do and apologized and I'm sure that mommy believed her.

On Sat I think the truth really came out. She missed us being a family. She missed having us both around. I told her that I missed the family part too, but mommy and daddy couldn't live together anymore. I repeated all the things I could about both of us loving her and that she didn't cause this and she couldn't fix this. We laid in bed for a long time and just talked at 1AM!!!

She is too smart for her own good. $\:\)$ But she is a trooper.

Fri Ms. Val got a call from CL. She called her back and they talked. CL told her that she thinks it would be good for Cros to have a female around, but when it comes to Caeson "I don't want you touching him!"

Val said that she could tell CL was very defensive on the phone and she didn't do anything to exacerbate the situation. V told CL that completely understands where she is coming from. I guess the convo went on for about 15min.

CL also expressed concern that by V coming down here, she was putting the kids in danger. V reassured her as I have that neither one of us would do such a thing to our children.

V finally told CL that we were in a R and that if our R was to continue we would eventually have to come to terms with everything. CL said "I don't want to hear that. I'll talk to you later... bye" Typical CL... at least she said bye and didn't hang up like usual.

CL and I discussed Cros this morning and the appt. CL wanted all 3 of us to sit down as a family with the therapist. I told her that this is Cros appt and it is for her. Not for us to hash things out. If she wants that, she can schedule it. I have no urge to sit down with CL. I would love to see CL and Cros sit down. The anger towards her mom seems to be a lot stronger than it is towards me.

I'm looking forward to her appt. today. I want her to be able to talk.

Hey Ty. As usual, good job of being there for Cros. Interesting about not letting her sleep in your bed. I let my kids crawl in all the time. And for a while there it was because I just needed someone to snuggle up with. Now I do it because I just want them to feel loved and comforted. But that's an interesting theory about filling a role. Yikes...hadn't thought of that.

I'm shocked that CL called Val. WOW. Good for Val for handling it so well. I think OM will get an earful from me someday.

Dear, dear Ty

My heart goes out to you, my friend...things looked like they
were going well for Cara...it seemed like she was adjuting. Your
last post, shows the reality of her spinning downward.

It seems to me, that her concern is not about the kids, but more
than likely...her need "not" to be replaced. It doesn't matter
if it's Val or anyone else, for that matter. It's the classic
issue of "If I can't have you or be with you, then no one else
will either". She has apparently thought that maybe, just maybe
you two were not a couple...always a little doubt...but when Val
confirmed it...she was angry, didn't want to hear it. Her state-
ment about not wanting Val to touch Caeson, reflects her trying
to control "her men". You, Ty, represent Caeson...it's okay with
Crosby, because Crosby is standing up to Cara and also resents
Cara for pulling apart "the family". Caeson, is "mini-Ty". She
doesn't want Val involved.

So, what does this mean? It means that Cara will inject herself
into any relationship that you have that will be a threat to Cara
and upseat her former title. This shows in her calling Val and
then not wanting to talk to her anymore, when the relationship
is confirmed. It had nothing to do with the kids. Cara knows
you are a good father...this is Cara vs. any woman in your life.
The sad thing about this...is that she can do a great deal of
damage. She will wedge herself between you and Val. I would not
take this lightly...with Cara's mental issues, it can progress to
something severe.

What can you do? Try to get her into counseling, without you or
Crosby. If you all went as a family...Val will be brought up by
Cara and you'll bring up the OM pre-divorce...then Cara will not
continue, leave and never go back (history)...it will be a waste
for all, including the therapist (hee hee).
I would also keep any information from Cara about Val...also, I
would suggest that Val not return her calls, or if answered,
continue to talk to Cara. Your "private" relationships, with
whomever, has nothing to do with Cara...nothing. You are legally
divorced. Unless Val or someone else, harms those kids...there
is no room for your XW. You wonder where the term "XW from Hell"
comes from?...well, you have one Ty. This isn't going to get any
easier...she needs help. You need to keep Val away from her
grasp. I wouldn't doubt, that when Val comes down, your XW will
show up, unannounced...to confront her.

As I said earlier Ty, my heart goes out to you...there are storms
that are coming right to you. You need to keep Val away from the
scary one.

P.S. Crosby is acting out her anger towards Cara because she
doesn't have a female role model...also because she loves her as
a daughter does, but blames her at the same time - her security
is shaken...Val will help that situation greatly, if she could
come down here sooner...just a thought. $;\)$

Love ya...please, please, be careful...I'm worried for Val's sake
in this wicked scenario...

As usual when 1210 posts, Ditto buddy.

There is something a wee bit psychotic about the inference that it is ok for Val to get close with Crosby but not Caeson. Watch that very carefully buddy and you make sure and give Val a huge squeeze (and of course a little tongue) for me for being such an amazing woman and dealing with the remnants of your marriage. It takes one special woman to tolerate that and Val certainly is special.

Cara, wants you now..... Because you are no longer obtainable, because she knows what she gave up, and because someone else "has" her man. The cycle continues dude.......

Love you buddy, stay strong man......

Ian

Hi all....

I have read and will post soon. I am under a time crunch this morning for a project and a meeting.

I talked to Ian about this scenerio this morning 1210. I will write more on this later.

I will let you know that Val is fully aware of Cara and her "psychosis" and is indeed a brave a speacial lady.

Ty you appear to have quite the sitch on your hands there buddy. Not to state the obvious or jump on the bandwagon but I agree with HS, you need to be vigilant and watch CL's behavior closely.

Good luck and yeah, Val sounds like a very special gal to attempt a truce between her and CL.

One step at a time is how I'm taking all of this.

Thank you for the posts.... 1210- It's funny how you say that, b/c I thought it was odd about Crosby and Caeson and Val mentioned this as well. She did understand from the "mother" aspect of not wanting someone else to take that place. Val also mentioned that she observed Cara having the need to "be in control" of the situation and their conversation.

Cara does seem to focus quite a bit on the issue of Val and I. In fact she brought it up again after the therapy appt and was determined to have control and make me do things her way. I finally told her that I was not going to listen to her about this and it is something she should discuss with her therapist when she gets one.

I do try and point her towards therapy. She said she can't afford it without health insurance right now, but she should be able to soon.

Val and I discussed the above posts and the significance of her being aware. She said she is fully aware and can tell through her discussion with Cara that things aren't quite right with her. She also said that she has no need or want to be around her at this time and if it happens that she is around her she will not "walk on eggshells or fell like I have to."

The maturity level is amazing between the two of them. It is becoming more apparent that I was very complacent and codependent in my marriage to Cara. I can tell Val that I'm apprehensive about things or bothered and I get the response of an active listener. Not the response of someone who is orbiting the Death Star in their X-wing fighter. I know that Val is aware and I also know that she can handle herself very well.

I also know about Cara. I will be vigilant. I have already stopped explaining our R to Cara and any of Val's plans. I've told her that when things don't concern her, she doesn't need to know about them.

And to think I was done at that little amusement park!

Ty

Val does sound like she is handling it pretty well. It's just a
shame that you have found such a compassionate, understanding,
self-confident woman in your life and as you two become closer,
you have a ball and chain holding onto one foot.

I just have a strong feeling that the wrath of Cara is going to
be a big surprise for Val. Your X has that possibility of anger
gone wrong...to what extent, I don't know. I feel that when Cara
finds out that Val is staying with you...all hell will break out.
Cara will start to fantasize in her mind, that there are wild
happenings taking place, in "her" house, where "she" used to
sleep.

Just be prudent, lock everything up, drapes covered, etc. Cara
is definitely going to be a problem.

If you can, have a neighbor keep their eye out when you go to
work - when Val arrives. Give Val a description of Cara's car
and color...just in case. I wouldn't put it past Cara to follow
Val, to see where she finds a place to live. This sounds sad and
pathetic, but Ty...listen to me carefully...you have a wounded
XW that won't let go...that, mixed with her unstable behavior
equals a time bomb. She won't go after you...it will be Val.

You take care...

Thanks 1210-

Val says she is well aware of her craziness or what could potentially be.

Cara is aware of Val staying here and in fact it wa announced to Crosby at the therapy appt. That little stinker is too smart. The therapist mentioned that there was no need to talk in code with her, b/c she "got it". I at one point after talking with Crosby about Val staying here for a while said... " I am apprehensive to co-habitate with said female b/c I am unaware of the effects it might have on them."

Crosby puts her hand on my arm and said "daddy... it's ok if Val stays with us" HAHAHA... booger

So Cara and Crosby are both aware. I let one neighbor know last night and so I'm sure the entire neighborhood knows by now...(she loves to talk). Most of them have met Val and they like her.

I'm thinking about having Val be absent during the swapping of the kids and I am also going to padlock my gate to around back. I feel like Cara's attack will be ore of a verbal one than anything else, but she has surprised me before.

Val's biggest fear is that Cara will start to yell in front of the kids and that will include her daughter. She said that she will not stand for such an act and Val is a no BS kind of gal.

I have learned to lock my house every night after the 1am appearance of CL.

I hate to say it, but if Cara were to go after Val, I believe that I would have to write off the mother of my children. Not so much b/c it is Val, but more for the stability of my children.

Thank you everyone.... back to taking apart my dryer. If anyone knows a good/cheap appliance person in the orlando area let me know!! Or maybe after this I will become one! $\:\)$

CM, talk to Fender, he is the dryer master and can tell you what to do....

got mine running for me. $\:\)$

Ty

I know Cara knows that Val is intending to stay there temporarily
until she finds a place...but when she's actually there...that's
a different playing field.

Crosby is so smart...what a little charmer.

Well, if the XW can yell in front of her own kids, who's to say
she won't in front of someone's kids that aren't hers.

Hey, my friend, just how hard are you on appliances? First, the
refridgerator, now the dryer...what's next? The toaster, can
opener, microwave, dishwasher...you have to show those things
lots of love...or trash them and get new ones.

You sound like you are pretty covered on everything...that's good
to know. Let's hope nothing happens and soon there will be the
acceptance and transition will occur.

Then, write a book...hee, hee...

G'Morning Ty. How is the dryer?

1210-

Very good points about CL. She gets upset and it doesn't matter who is around... the pea green vomit comes. Val and I discussed this further and I repeated some of what you had written. She said that maybe she is coming down into a war zone but it isn't going to stop her. Val also told me last night that she doesn't want me to defend her to Cara. She feels that it would only make the situation worse. "If she starts spewing about me, just let her go on. There is no need to defend me, b/c they way you describe her and from when I talked to her I don't think she would listen anyway."

As far as appliances go.... I can't catch a break. I took the dryer apart last night. Tested the electrical and I know that the machine is getting juice. After removing the drum I decided to call it quits. I'll get back to it tomorrow. I'm going to the gym tonight to burn off some appliance anger!

So... I get a call from my babysitter who tells me that Cros is unable to focus on her homework and after 45 min she decides to ask her if she took her pill this morning. nope.

I call and talk to Cros and she asks right away "Am I going to your house tonight?" I told her no, but tomorrow she would. She said she really misses me.

I asked if she got to go to recess today and she said no. She didn't finish her work. I asked if she was doing a good job on homework and she also said no. I asked if she took her pill..

"no mommy said she was in a big hurry b/c her boss (couldn't understand her) and the airport."

I went into daycare this morning to pay for next week and I was very careful to make sure that caeson didn't see me. The director said she hadn't seen him unless he snuck in. I look in the book and once again she hadn't signed him in or out this entire week. she was pulling in just after I left putting on her makeup.

I have emailed her about the meds and I tried my best to be polite. I didn't mention the daycare thing. I then sent her a text to tell her to check her email and not to forget the meds tomorrow.

I do not care to talk to her right now. I'm over this sh*te. Her being irresponsible is driving me insane.

grrrr.... I think I'll take my aggression out on the dryer this evening.

Hey CM !

Just for the record.. you are on Thread # 43.3 x 15... I remember the first one.. we had to walk to school up hill both ways.. etc.. sigh.. $\:\)$

Tom

Ty

Good Lord...do you ever get any peace? Just where was Caeson, if
not in daycare - who was watching him?

I never realized, giving a child a pill took so long, that it had
to be skipped.

Ty, I give you kudos for keeping your head straight...what an
absolute, aggravating situation, at times.

YEAH!!!! Maybe you'll fix the dryer...then onto the coffeemaker.
At least you can fix things...Michael picks up the phone and then
calls one of his friends...personally, I call the maker of the
appliance to come and fix it.

$\:D$ $\:D$ $\:D$

HS

...eewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

AT- We didn't have a sense of direction then either did we?

1210- The aggrevation only helps in a sense. And like I told Ian in a post yesterday, it is better now (for me) to see all this, then for it to come out 20 years down the road.

HS- I can only do what I can do and I will continue to assess each and every situation as it comes.

I found the issue with the dryer last night! I took the entire thing apart only to find out that it was the thermal fuse. Sheesh... I could have left the drum in! Oh well... It should be a cheap fix, but it could be a long process putting it back together! $\:\)$ Maybe I'll let the kids put each other in the drum tonight and roll down the street!

Hola peeps.....

Back to the grind. I took Friday off and fixed my dryer. (After giving up, taking a nap, waking up and doing other things it was completed on Sat.) Worked on the shed on Sun.

I received a phone call on Sat. from Cros. She had her mommy's phone and I asked if she took it just to call me. She said "No, mommy got mad and threw her phone out the window. She gave it to me so she wouldn't do it again." I asked about that and Crosby started to talk about it then said ..."nevermind, nevermind..." I asked if her mommy was telling her to say that and she said yes.

I got the kids back yesterday and of course we had Crosby hanging on mommy and Caeson was starting to cry. Cara and I went of the schedule rearrangement for when I take the kids to Boston and were in agreement.

After she left I asked Cros about the phone incident and she said she didn't want to tell me b/c mommy told her not to. I told her that it isn't good to keep secrets from her mom and dad and that it isn't fair to her to have to keep a secret. She told me that her mom got mad at the OM and threw her phone out the window and asked Cros to hold it so she wouldn't do it again.

I called Cara after that and told her that it wasn't fair to Cros to make her keep secrets and she shouldn't keep them from us. Especially if they concern another adult. Cara of course took offense and said that it was none of my business. We argued back and forth for a bit. I just kept explaining about how this was for Crosby's protection and I could care less what she was mad about.

Crosby wanted to call CL again so I let her. Then all hell started to break loose. She pushed Caeson off the chair with her foot and wouldn't apologize. I made her apologize. Then she started to get mad at me for changing the schedule and her not being involved. She wants to go every other day to the other person's house. I explained how that wouldn't be fair to anyone.

She was getting more upset by the minute and she was raising her voice with me. I said "Crosby you are screaming at me." She rolls her eyes and says "yaaaaaaa" ...like "I know dad and I mean to do it."

She went to her room right after that. She was begging to call mommy again and I told her that if she stopped crying and screaming she could. I let her. Afterwards I talked to Cara and she said she wanted to swap weeks and have the kids again this week. I explained that I missed them and wanted them till Thur and then she could have them till Sun, b/c of our trip. She said she misses them too and "I never should have left. I never should have. Now that Val is coming down it really is over. If she makes you happy Ty then I am happy for you." I told her thank you and I hope she gets some help someday. She said she realizes she has glaring character defects, but everyone does. (typical response)

In my mind this needs to stop. She comes crying to me about her mistakes after spending 9 hours out on a boat with our kids and her bf? She is having problems not having a crutch when things aren't right with whomever she is with. Looking to run maybe again? Who knows.

I do get the feeling at times that she might be telling Cros that I'm the one who doesn't want us together as a family and that Cros needs to protect her. I don't want that put on my D. She is 7. Cros said her and her mom were talking about her feeling sad b/c of the D. Cros said her mom was sad too. I need to watch this. Cara is taking Cros to the therapist next week. It will be interesting to see what comes of it.

On a good note... Crosby stayed in HER bed all night!!!

OMG Ty I'm sorry you're going through this.

I often approach your posts looking for humour - I like your humour - but this just isn't funny.

I have no advice on what to do with the kids cos I don't have any myself ... But I'm so sorry to hear of the poor little thing going through this $\:\($

just wanted to offer a bit of support.

Quote:

Crosby wanted to call CL again so I let her. Then all hell started to break loose. She pushed Caeson off the chair with her foot and wouldn't apologize. I made her apologize. Then she started to get mad at me for changing the schedule and her not being involved. She wants to go every other day to the other person's house. I explained how that wouldn't be fair to anyone.

She was getting more upset by the minute and she was raising her voice with me. I said "Crosby you are screaming at me." She rolls her eyes and says "yaaaaaaa" ...like "I know dad and I mean to do it."

You have a lot going on however I wanted to say something about this issue.

You need to set some boundries and do it right now with Cros. You don't make deals with 7 yr olds. You tell her the way it is and that is that. You have to show her you are in charge, not that she can manipulate you by throwing a fit.

One thing GF has told me and I have come to see it, kids need structure and they need us to be in charge. Lack of structure, lack of firmness on our part leads to them wondering who is in charge which leads to more problems.

Cros is challanging you to step up and give her structure, to show her you are in fact in charge. Trust me, making deals with her will lead to many problems down the road.

JJ- Good to hear from you and don't worry. The humour (your spelling) is still there! However, I have lost my pants!

Fender- Don't get me wrong. I am the "hammer" so to speak. I feel that this is part of the reason she tests me. To see if I'm still going to be strong. I gave in last night, b/c I was on my last nerve. I probably shouldn't have, but it did stop the crying! $\:\)$

My babysitter says that it is almost to the point where I have to set boundaries for two parents. She also enjoys Cros on the weeks that I have her b/c her behavior is different/better. I work hard at setting boundaries with her and she respects them most of the time. She is becoming more well behaved and more of a joy to be around... we just had that issue last night. Other than that and the sleeping (which I hope she is getting) we are doing well. She is a great big sister and fun to be around.

Thank you both!

Stay strong Ty. You are doing great. You can't control CL. You can tell her what you would like to see out of her but only she can control the type of mother she is. So if she is going to throw you under the bus..she will. In the end Cros will know how great of a father you are.

So after two wonderful nights of no child waking up, it happened again last night. *sigh*

I have a feeling that part of it is sleepwalking.

Tonight is my last night with the kids until next tues. $\:\($ Then we head up north for a bit. I am getting them on Sunday for the day which should be fun. They are so much fun (and such a pain at times) but that is all part of raising a spawn!

Hello childrens~

Not much to report here. I got a phone call at 1:50 am on tues. It was Cara complaining about Cros not sleeping and waking up the whole house. I got Crosby on the phone and was stern with her and she calmed down. Cara must have been listening in b/c of a comment she made after I was done about how I talk to her.

Cara took her to therapy today and I guess it didn't go so well at all. Apparently Crosby was hungry (which she usually is right after school) and Cara didn't stop to get her something to eat, (which I don't normally do either).

Cara said that Crosby didn't say two words the entire time and the counselor said that "it is interesting to see this side of Crosby. This is a side I am not used to."

Now those are the words that came out of Cara's mouth. Heck, knowing her the T could have said.. "I feel with the unification of Europe under the Euro, we might be headed in the same direction soon with the current state of the Dollar." And Cara would have translated it into something else.

So, Cara talks about her coming down and her meds and such..... Cara is taking her back next week which I am happy about.

We all head up to MA tomorrow. (minus cara of course). I get to see Swash on Sat and give him a spanking!! He likes that.

Y'all take care now...

Don't you know it big boy! $;\)$

Ooops...you're a little late. $\:\)$

Good Aftermorneve-

Here is a report from "Happy Hallow" (name that band and don't google it!... it is a toughie, but HS they are from Omaha and it's not 311)

Had fun in MA. I got violently ill about an hour after we got there until Thurs. eve and still wasn't right until Sat. I broke down a couple of times, b/c I wanted to play with the kids and enjoy them and all I could do was sleep and vomit! Val was Ms. Amazing once again and took care of my kids and took Crosby shopping. On Thurs. night V's mom took Cros and her granddaughter who is the same age to a downtown festival in the town they live in.

Fri. I took Cros in to Beantown and we spent a few hours there. She really loved it and was an amazing girl the whole trip. Caeson had a lot of fun also. It was cool to share in my first experience of seeing the fall leaves in the NE with her.

Sat. I got to see Swash and his kiddos. They are some cool kids and I gave an obligatory lick to Swash. He was going to get me but his tongue looked a little furry and I didn't let him.

The kids were great the entire time. They really took to Val and little man is such a ham with everyone he is around.

We got back late Sun night and everything was ok. I helped Cros finish her homework.

Yesterday... ahhhh

I dropped the kids off at school and Crosby jumped out as my phone was ringing and I didn't say bye or tell her I love her and it bothered the hell out of me so I got her a card yesterday and took it to the babysitters home. She was there and read it and I had her read it to me out loud to make sure she could understand my writing and she did. Midway through she got choked up. I didn't make it very mushy... it just said

"I didn't tell you I loved you this morning and it bothered me all day. I wanted you to know that I love you very much and I had a great time with you in Boston. You were AWESOME KIDDO!"

She cried for a while and didn't want me to leave so I sat down to help her with her homework and that went well and then mommy showed up. crosby wanted to go with me. She wanted to "get used to Val staying at our house". She had a few excuses as to why and then a lot came out... "It is boring at mommy's. It's not our home. We have to share food. We sleep in a garage. There are only toys there for Caeson." She was not happy and Cara told me that she deals with this all the time b/c it isn't Crosby's home and she is used to it. I did my best to reassure her that it will feel more like a home and I think the garage room is pretty awesome.

It ended up that Crosby also wanted a movie to watch so I took her back to my house to get a movie. We went back out to the van and I told the kids bye and saw that Cara was crying. She would not look at me.

I called later in the night and Cros was doing better and wanted to talk to V's little girl but she was in the tub.

No phone calls last night and I called this morning and it was at 8:40am. Cros was supposed to be at school at 8:30 and she was upset b/c mommy couldn't find her keys and she was missing the fall festival. Poor girl. They were leaving right then b/c Cara had finally found the keys.

It kills me that the kids have to pay for their mother's irresponsibility. It does not look good that my daughter has been tardy over 6 times since Aug. Once was my fault which I take full responsibility for even thought I think it was b/c her mom didn't return her shoes to me.... sheeesh.

I don't have the kids for Halloween which is sad, but at least I have them on thanksgiving! A whole day sure beats a few hours!

poor kidlets

and

Swashy was supposed to lick you two for me and Cookie....

did you get them

even with his furry tongue????

(sigh)

He got the tip. $;\)$

*snert*

cough cough cough

sputter

Was that one for each Ty and Val? $;\)$

shut it
I figgied all over Tys thread

sorry

$\:\($

I love it when you fig... mmmmm

and I hope swashy licked right

I gave very explicit instructions but you know swashy.....

HEY! I'll have you know that i'm a VERY good licker! jeesh.

No google and No Wire Hangers!!!! I did not know that about Happy Hallow!

Cara and Crosby have been going to therapy and Cara said it does help. So I'm glad to hear that.

All seems ok here.... This will be the 1st weekend the kids will be with V and I, so we will see how Cara reacts.

Good luck on the weekend Ty.

lick her for me

(sigh)

HAve a great weekend

Say Hi to Val.

I know it will be fine.