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Posted By: Astimegoeson Serenity at last! part III - 09/12/07 04:54 AM
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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1194013

Thanks for the reply Joe. Yes, I get all my components from surplus or discontinued stock via the internet, computer shopper, local 3 RD party merchants, etc. I try to buy my system boards in balk, but everything else (drives, CPUs, cases, power supplies, etc) I'll buy at the best price I can find. If you can get familiar with all the various quirks of a particular system board and what peripherals work, don't work well with them, the rest fits into place fairly easy. It is a relaxing hobby for me when the weather sucks outside.

I've also been looking at starting another hobby inspired by my oldest S14. He's always liked airplanes and he's asked me to buy him a radio controlled model airplane to put together. They are those balsa wood planes with the fuel props you buy in kits. It's not an inexpensive hobby. The model he's looking at is about $200.00 and that's one of the cheaper ones. I justify it to myself by saying it's for his happiness, but I'm just a big kid myself when it comes to that stuff so I'll enjoy doing it with him. Just hope I don't crash the darn thing. I'm sure I can build it, flying it is probably a different thing entirely.
Posted By: koshka Re: Serenity at last! part III - 09/12/07 11:10 AM
ATGO,

Quote:
I justify it to myself by saying it's for his happiness, but I'm just a big kid myself when it comes to that stuff so I'll enjoy doing it with him.

Those things look so cool! I think my S8 would like that. Maybe S15, too, but S8 says he's going to be a pilot.

I bet you guys have a blast! And if it's not inexpensive, it gives S14 a chance to learn how to handle money as he works towards more advanced models.

And another morning time first post brew for me! Joy! \:\)

Thanks,

Joe
Posted By: qoe100 Re: Serenity at last! part III - 09/12/07 12:27 PM
ATGO,
My stepdad used to build those and he loved it!!! They actually had a club that he belonged to where they would fly them. How convenient that a bonding experience with your son is something that you're interested in too. ;\)
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 09/17/07 03:33 AM
Well, I bought the airplane kit Saturday. We've just looked over the instructions, but have not started to build it. Looks like it would be just as much fun to build as fly. You know qoe, I have heard about those clubs. There are several around me where they go fly. They also have model airplane shows in the summer where they display models and compete in flying competitions. I really didn't realize how popular it was.

Anyway, on the stbx front, I messed up big time Friday night. STBX jumped down my throat for dropping off S7 45 minutes late. I did call and let her know I was running late, but it didn't keep her from spewing her venom over the phone at me. I would rather not go over her put downs and criticism of me. It's not like she had to be somewhere, she was staying home that night. Anyway, I lost my temper, and angrily yelled... "STF up you wicked witch, I'm on my way", then I hung up on her. My S7 overheard me and that's what bothers me the most. I totally lost control.

Man, I don't know what got into me. She spews on rear occasions and for the most part, I bite my tongue but I just couldn't this time. I could feel the anger boil inside me. I thought who the fuk is she to think I'm going to take her crap. She just pushed the wrong buttons. I'm not sure what the hell her issue was or why she made such a big deal out of it. Maybe Bubba was keeping her OM occupied in his jail cell and he couldn't break loose to call her. I don't know, but I'm kind of feeling mad at myself for the way I reacted in front of my S7. I spoke to him since and tried to smooth it over. I told him his Mommy wasn't evil and that Daddy was just upset. Of course, I was lying to him that his Mom wasn't evil, but he doesn't need to know that.

I've been real reserved when I talk to her lately. It's just all business with me lately. She's just so insincere and shallow that I don't really want to waste my time talking small talk with her anymore. She tries to keep me on the phone at times for that and I usually cut her off saying I'm busy or have to go. I think this is making her angry for some reason.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 09/17/07 12:30 PM
Thanks for the encouragement Cori. I did see understanding and forgiveness in my S7's eyes. After all, it is his Mother so I did owe him an apology.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 09/18/07 06:39 AM
I'm at work here late and bored. Since it's close to Halloween, I wanted to share something with you all. I noticed a book one of my co-workers was reading regarding the Civil War. It reminded me of an experience I had when I was in my mid 20's that I don't tell others about to often. If you believe in Ghost, please read on, if not, I understand. This is a true experience of mine that to this day is as clear in my conscience as the day it happened.
 
I lived in NJ for about 6 years during and just right after my Navy Service.  Lakehurst NJ, was my last duty station. For you history buffs, it's the base where the Hindenburg crashed on it's madden voyage to the US. I worked in hanger 1 where they were going to store the blimp, but instead used it for a makeshift morgue. That's a whole other creepy story in it's own right, but I'm not going to get into that now. My story takes place in a town called Waretown, NJ. It's about an hour North of Atlantic City.

I was doing some restoration work on some old houses for some extra cash.  I was asked to tear out and replace some old hard wood flooring in an old Civil War era home.  It was a large home with high ceilings and a Victorian style look to it.  It was situated on about 10 acres of wooded land.  Most of the interior was still the original design from the mid 1800's. Very beautiful home that needed lots of work.  It also had a large barn in the back yard that was also built around the same time as the house. Large sturdy timbers. Still very functional, but the roof leaked a little.  We kept all our building material and tools in this barn while we were restoring this house.
 
One day, I was working in the house by myself.  My boss had to take his Son to a baseball game.  I was nailing down flooring when I ran out of nails.  I went out to the barn to get a box and as soon as I opened the door, I froze in shear astonishment.  In the barn there were about 15 Men (ghost) dressed in rebel civil war uniforms complete with rifles by their side.  It looked so surreal.  They looked as though they were resting and/or hiding from something.  Some were heavily bandaged.  One guy had a clothe wrapped around his eye and was bleeding profusely from it. Some were moaning in pain while others were trying to sleep. I was froze in time and could not move or breath it seemed.  I was in awe at what I was looking at. They did not look at me or even acknowledge I was there.  It seemed as if they did not know I was there, but I sure knew they were there.  It is a very hard story to describe in some respects because it seems as though time stood still and I was in a different dimension. A vacuum of sorts. After a duration of time which I could not measure, they simply disappeared and i felt my breath and movement come back to me.  I quickly grabbed the box of nails and ran out of that barn.
 
My boss told of seeing a woman in a long gown and sleeping cap carring what appeared to be a candle lamp down the hallway on several occasions. He told me this story before my experience, but I didn't pay much attention to him. He was a drinker and a joker and I didn't take him seriously. He use to stay there late from time to time to work on the plumbing or electrical in the house. He was the first I told that story to and didn't tell anyone else for a very long time.  It took me some time to process the experience.  It was a out of body and dimension experience for me that I've never felt before or since. 
 
The New Jersey historical preservation society bought the house and surrounding land about 10 years ago.  I heard the barn caught on fire and burnt to the ground, so it is no longer there.

Anyway, I wanted to share that with anyone who might be interested in that type of phenomena. I've always believed in the after life, but never believed it could manifest itself for our own eyes to see. I do now!
 
Posted By: koshka Re: Serenity at last! part III - 09/18/07 01:00 PM
Tom,

Quote:
I spoke to him since and tried to smooth it over. I told him his Mommy wasn't evil and that Daddy was just upset.


I remember something along those lines in the early days after my ex-wife moved out. I muttered under my breath about something that she did, and my oldest son heard it.

Later I sought him out and apologized, telling him that I felt I should show more respect toward his mother. He asked about her showing respect toward me. I explained that by apologizing and working to do better, I could have more respect for myself.

He's never said anything to me about that. I hope it did show him that I can make a mistake and be man enough 1) to admit it and 2) to do better.

You showed your son an important lesson in the real world. It'll mean a lot more from your example than it ever could from anything he'll read about, see on tv, etc.

Your ghost story sounds eerie. You wanna come by and tell it to kids at my Halloween party this year?

Thanks,

Joe
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 09/19/07 03:03 AM
Cori,

That story was interesting as well and I believe it. It's a very strange phenomena that I'm sure many have experienced.

I don't know a lot of historical specifics about that particular house as it pertains to the Civil War. There were no documented Civil War battles fought in NJ, but there are stories that have been passed down that skirmishes often broke out between Union volunteers and small Rebel scouting parties in that area. It's been said by some historians familiar with that area that the Rebels used it as a base for spying and gathering intelligence for the Eastern theater of operations. If you look at it geographically, it makes a lot of sense. They could go undetected for significant periods of time and dispatch scouts to Eastern Pennsylvania and Virginia to follow Union troop movements. My Girlfriend at that time told me that she's heard folklore that a Rebel scouting party of less than 20 Men were massacred in that area two weeks prior to the battle of Gettysburg taking place in Eastern Pennsylvania. Maybe that party of less than 20 were hiding in that barn or running from something, who knows.

Your probably not going to hear stories like that on the history channel, but there is probably a lot of historical events from the Civil war that is not common knowledge.

Joe,

Sometimes that filter between our anger and our tongue breaks down. That tongue can be a mighty weapon if not held in check. If we could take everything bad that's come out of our mouth back, we would be saints. That's not going to happen. Like you said though, if we acknowledge our indiscretions, show remorse, and make honest efforts not to repeat it, then we are morally progressing as a human beings.

I love to tell stories, especially to kids. However, I'm the guy with the mask jumping out of the woods with a chainsaw this year at our annual Halloween hay ride and party. I won't be able to make your Halloween party. Thanks for the invite though.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 09/25/07 06:59 AM
I have what I think will be an issue come up this week. I have decided to spend Christmas and New Years in Florida this year. My Mom lives down there 6 months out of the year during winter. She's alone family wise, none of my brothers or sisters will be able to make it down there this year. I have some friends down there as well I would like to see.

For the past two Christmases, I have not been able to spend it with my younger S7. My time with him is delegated to the weekend before Christmas. My stbx spends most of her time during that week attending Family functions and she insist on taking our youngest with her. I have not protested so far but it's only been to keep the peace.

I've had Christmas dinner with my first ex-wife and oldest S14 the past two years which I enjoy. She treats me with respect and strangely enough like a Brother. It's OK, because I feel the same about her, like she is a Sister. We were married way to young and our divorce had nothing to do with OM/OW. It was more or less pretty amicable and the years since have heeled any lingering affects.

This year, my first ex has a new boyfriend fairly close to the holidays which wasn't the case the past two years. I don't know how long he'll last, she goes through them like a pair of shoes. She's offered to have me over for Christmas this year if I wouldn't mind her boyfriend there. Of course, I wouldn't mind, but my S14 said he saw a picture of me in a scrapbook and seemed concerned over it, questioning ex how much contact I have with her. He's not going to last long with her if he's showing any type of jealousy or control over her. She'll dispatch him with his tail between his legs... LOL! He obviously doesn't understand the dynamics of our relationship here. I guess as a stranger, I wouldn't either.

Anyway, I don't want to intrude on her this year even though I know she doesn't mind. I have 5 Sisters and two brothers and I know they would invite me over, but I've been rotating between them the last two years for dinner.. lol. My Sisters are all good cooks and it really isn't fun to cook for one. I'm the only single one in my Family now. Basically, I don't want to feel like the orphan at anyone's dinner table and I'm really fine with that.

Where I think the problem will be is where stbx will tell me how bad a Father I am for not being there during the holidays for my S7 even though she has him 90% of the week. She will tell me how she was hoping I could watch him this New Years so she could go out and party, I've had him the last two New Years which I don't mind at all. I just feel like the baby sitter and not the Father though. I'm expected to spend the Holidays on my own without my S7's company just so she could have me around for those occasions when she wants to go out and party. She always takes two weeks off from work around that time.

I just sent the email informing her about my holiday plans, so I'm just guessing what her reaction will be. When/if she starts complaining, I am going to tell her that I would LOVE to take him with me for the whole Christmas/New Years week, which I and his Grandmother would enjoy very much. I know she will not go for that, but I'm hoping it will defuse her argument. Maybe it's wishful thinking, what do you think?

As soon as standard court ordered child custody and visitation is established, this won't be a problem. She will have to concede every other holiday to me. In the interim I want to figure out a way of handling this without dealing with her spew. Hopefully, I can defuse it with my offer to take him with me. If by some miracle she agrees, I would be stunned, but very happy. I don't see that happening though.
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 09/25/07 04:57 PM

Hi Tom,

So really what this is all about is HER selfishness and HER using you, and you're worried about what she'll come back at you with??? I think HS is right on. If you already know that you won't be getting your son unless wife needs a sitter, then I would go ahead and make your plans. I really don't see how she can turn this on you after having made the offer you have.

Besides, a change of scenery is always nice and it will give you something to look forward to.

Love,
bethie
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 09/26/07 03:19 AM
Thanks for the response you two!

Well, I got the return email tonight. Oh boy! Like I thought, she is not agreeable to letting me take him with me for the 10 days I will be gone. I'm not sure if or how I will challenge this. I'm pretty sure it would be knock down/drag out and without our child custody and visitation agreement settled, I'm not sure if it's a battle I want to waste time fighting right now. There will more important battles in the future.

She's trying to use the old guilt trip on me about S7 looking forward to spending time with his Dad around the holidays and me not being around. Never mind I just offered to take him with me. Pretty much script.

I am surprised she didn't ask me for more money beyond my child support so she could get a baby sitter for when she wanted to go out during those two weeks off. Believe me, she's asked before when it was her time with S7 and she wanted to go out. I shoot that request down like a smooth whiskey, but that doesn't keep her from asking. Maybe she finally gets the clue.

Anyway, I have not responded, I don't think I will and there really isn't any reason to. She knows I'm going, she'll plan accordingly, so I'm going to reserve my flight. I'll be sipping my eggnog in an outdoor pool this Christmas and New Years.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 09/30/07 07:03 AM
Took my Boys to the Air show yesterday. It was awesome. Lots of old WWII aircraft flying around and the AF thunderbirds did their thing. They are always great to watch. It was a record breaking crowd and the weather was perfect.

On my non-relationship front, I'm to the point where I don't even have the desire for small talk with the stbx anymore. I sense our lack of communication is starting to frustrate her. I always seem to politely blow her off when the conversation turns to something other than our S7's schedule. I could be wrong, but I think she's trying to dump her baggage and is looking for my approval. How do you absolve somebody of their guilt when you have already acknowledged your forgiveness? How do you say, I wish you good luck and happiness in the future, but I don't desire to be your friend? I think she has the wrong impression about what our relationship should look like. I'm thinking that she believes I'm punishing her because I won't be her friend, but that's not the case at all. I just simply want to move on with my own life and I don't feel the need or desire to keep her informed of the details or talk about other inconsequential events going on in her life or mine.
Posted By: koshka Re: Serenity at last! part III - 09/30/07 11:48 AM
Astgo,

Quote:
How do you absolve somebody of their guilt when you have already acknowledged your forgiveness? How do you say, I wish you good luck and happiness in the future, but I don't desire to be your friend?


How about "I just simply want to move on with my own life and I don't feel the need or desire to keep you informed of the details or talk about other inconsequential events going on in your life or mine," perhaps edited to fit the sitch at the moment?

The airshow sounds great. I used to work in a building across the street from Andrews AFB. Folks would go in on the weekend and go to the roof to watch the airshows there.

Thanks,

Joe
Posted By: sofaraway Re: Serenity at last! part III - 09/30/07 12:29 PM
Hey atgo, I hear what you are saying my friend. You have it pegged I believe since you mention clearing her guilt. That's exactly what it is, they use you being cordial as a way to justify their actions.

You simply make your decisions dude and quit worrying about what she will feel or do. Your life is your own and her life is hers at this point. I agree with Koshka in that you may simply need to be honest with her and tell her.


Ian
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/01/07 01:12 AM
Yes, you guys are right. Although I am already cordial with her, I think she's upset I don't take a more active interest in her life as it is now. If she's looking for a girlfriend, she'll have to look elsewhere. I've already given her my forgiveness, so I'm going to do like you say Ian and just not worry about her feelings. It's probably only something she's going to be able to get closure on anyway.

In a more important and crucial development, the Browns won today and Pittsburgh lost. Can you believe the dawgs are one game out of first place in their division? Also, my Sister has 6 premium box seats to the Cleveland Indians play-off game Wednesday. She is giving me one of the tickets free of charge as long as I pretend I'm on a date with one of her friends who will be going with us. I guess I'm the "fill-n date" since the other four seats are for couples. She's a nice Woman and all, but I really don't have any interest in her beyond a friendly outing to the ball park. Hey, the tickets are free, what can I say?

Life is good for me here lately. I'm really finding my beat and loving life. Hope you guys are doing well to.
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/01/07 01:16 AM
Dang, I'd pretend to be anybody's date for playoff tickets.

I guess that makes me a baseball ho.

(Shut up, Ian)
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/01/07 04:34 AM
Hey Speed!

How you doing tonight? Thanks for the thought! You know, I was reading another thread where you had made a commit about Ian being the creamy middle and I blew 7UP out my nose with the visual. No offense Ian.. LMAO!
Posted By: sofaraway Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/01/07 10:54 AM
First off ATGO, do not believe a word that comes out of Speeds mouth. It is merely his fantasies that he tries to make reality.

Second, dude, don't go to the game. I believe the Yankees were 6-0 against your beloved indians this year. It will be a short series my friend.

BA, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/01/07 11:00 AM
Morning Ian,

I know the history. It's like the curse of the Bambino, but the Sox finally overcame it, so anything can happen.

I was assuming the Game was Wednesday when they said TBD, but I guess it's scheduled for Thursday.
Posted By: sofaraway Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/01/07 11:34 AM
Yep it starts Thursday and bot teams will have their rotations set. Means the Yanks will have Pettite, Clemens, and Wang all lined up for the tribe........
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/01/07 11:46 AM
I like the fact that it starts in Cleveland. It's going to be Wang vs Sabathia in game one. If the tribe can start out strong in game one it might give them some momentum. Their bating has been hot the past month. I'd love to see them hammer on Wang! Jacobs Field is going to be rocking for this one, I can't wait.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/02/07 04:32 AM
I know Cori, it's a sordid triangle between you three and to much drama for me right now in my life.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/21/07 07:26 AM
Did I say 7 from the start?
Posted By: swashy Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/21/07 12:22 PM
That you did Tom!
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/22/07 05:24 AM
I am crushed at the thought of my beloved Indians going down in that manner. I knew it would go 7, but I didn't think they would completely fold so easily. Unreal!!!

It was still a bonus year considering I didn't think they had a chance at the beginning of the year. Better to have been in the thick of it and lost than not to be there at all I guess. There's always next year and I still have my Buckeyes to look forward to.

Anyway, congrats to all you Sox fans out there. Enjoy it!
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/22/07 11:01 PM
Sometimes, I put my foot in my mouth. There was something I said to the stbx Saturday when she picked up S7. I had him in his Halloween costume because she was taking him to "boo at the zoo".

As she was fussing over his costume, I asked her where her costume was. She said she didn't have one. I told her I have a witches cape and hat in the closet if she wanted it. I really do have a witches cape and hat in my closet. A female friend left it in my car last Halloween when we went to a costume party together.

Well, I guess that didn't go over to well because my Sister told me she was upset that I would insinuate that she was a witch. She always complains to one of my Sisters when something about me is bugging her. Really all I was doing was joking around and I really would have given her the costume if she wanted it. I probably would have said the same thing to one of my Sisters in the same circumstance.

Anyway, should I apologize for something like that or let it go?
Posted By: swashy Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/22/07 11:44 PM
Do you think your sister will tell her that you really did have a hat and cape in the closet? If so, I say don't worry about it. Funny that she would think that anyway....don't ya think? ;\)
Posted By: drbty Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/23/07 12:01 AM
Yea, sometimes the truth hurts and your innocent offer may have hit a little too close to home. IMHO, let it go.
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/23/07 03:17 PM
Tom,

Sorry about your Indians. Even for a Sox fan that was sad to watch. Actually, I kind of liked them!
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/25/07 02:55 PM
Thanks BethM. It was a good series and fun to watch. I don't necessarily enjoy blow-outs.

Cleared up the issue with the witch's cape and hat. STBX didn't know I was being serious and actually had a cape and hat in my closet.

It's best to keep the line of communication open for our kid's sake. I think we miss out on important matters when we are preoccupied with misunderstandings.
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/25/07 03:02 PM
Ah where's her sense of humor? Did she take it with her when she left or do you think her guilt makes her take things too personally? If that were me I would have laughed it off.
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/25/07 03:11 PM
I agree with you Beth, I think her reaction indicates that "witch" analogy hit a little too close to home.

Perhaps it has occured to her along the way that she resembles one more often than not.

I would say to her: Grow up, get over yourself, and a sense of humor wouldn't hurt either, Witch.

Hang in there, Asti, and remember, her own feelings of low self esteem are not yours to fix.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/25/07 03:37 PM
Thanks you two.. Yeah, I said it in a joking/lite manner.

Come to think of it, you know she's lost her sense of humor here lately. She's always stale anymore. Like moldy bread. Maybe the OM's depressing state of existence is starting to bring her down. I think she is jealous of my jovial moods sometimes and wonders why/how I can be happy.
Posted By: swashy Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/25/07 04:12 PM
Bingo! Realization of her own choices. Gosh..that hasta suck. Onward and upward my friend.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/25/07 09:17 PM
Well, I just got an email from the stbx. Looks like she is going to serve me at the beginning of November. Gee, isn't that when her OM's parole hearing is? What a coincidence! It's not like I didn't know it was coming, it's just that I dread having to go through the whole process especially through the holidays. I'm not your most motivational type when it comes to the clerical stuff. Gathering papers, info, etc. I'm very disorganized when it comes to that stuff. I need a divorce secretary or something!!!

Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions on the timing. It's possible she finally decided to file because I'm dumping her from my insurance. We had talked previously about it and she said she was going to get her own anyway. Now that she figured out what it is going to cost her through her work, she insist that I agreed to cover her until our dissolution was final. I only agreed to cover our S7. She says I'm obligated by law to cover her. I have not had a chance to bring that up with my Lawyer, but that is a new one on me. I didn't know you are responsible for that even if you are happily married.

She doesn't realize it, but she just took the fast track on loosing the house. She can't afford to buy me out until spring and we are going to have to settle that matter before a judge. I'd be willing to forgo a generous portion of my equity if we could close the deal, but she's being very stubborn and unrealistic with her demands. I can't afford her terms. We'll have to sell at under market value. She's making a huge mistake with this greed of hers and the adjustment for my S7 is going to be so demanding. That's the hardest part for me to stomach.

I don't even know why she had to tell me I was going to get served. She's all proud of her expensive Lawyer her Dad is buying for her and seems to think she's going to be awarded the moon from me. I guess I don't have any rights as a Father or Man according to her.

This sucks, but I guess I had to face this sometime. I wish I could fast forward it and be done already. I don't think I'm going to be able to talk her into mediation, she's going for the throat in the hopes that her lifestyle and standard of living remains the same after divorce.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 10/26/07 06:53 PM
I'm looking through the offender web site database and there are people who's last parole hearing was last July and they still have not rendered a decision. Either that, or they've ruled a continuation and the next hearing date has not been determined.

I have a feeling if they stretch OM's decision out, stbx could drag her feet on a whole lot of issues.

Your right Cori, I know why she waited until now to file. I've got to adjust my strategy according to this frikin looser she's involved with.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/01/07 05:12 PM
OM's parole hearing is this month. I'm more concerned with my S7's welfare, but know if he gets out, the stbx and he will consummate their EA and it will become a PA.

I guess in some respects I'm prepared for it, so the sting won't be so bad I guess. There's also the possibility that the parole board disapproves him for parole. Either way, it doesn't affect our dissolution accept for the timing. I won't be second best, so there is no way I would take her back at this point. If they do disapprove him, they will push his next parole hearing up 3 to 5 years from now. Wouldn't that be sweet justice for the both of them? It would give my S7 more time to age and absorb the insanity of his Mom's actions.

I would have to believe the Family of the Man he killed 15 years ago is still protesting his release to the parole board. Either way, these next couple/few months are going to be a pivotal turn of events in my situation. It sometimes takes the board 2 or 3 months to make a decision. Other times it's pretty quick. We'll see!

BTW, according to her, I was suppose to get papers yesterday, but they never came. Either she's blowing smoke or it will come today or tomorrow. I have not asked her if she went through with it, but I'm prepared either way.
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/01/07 06:07 PM
Hey Tom,

Man ya' just can't write this stuff can you? So, I'm not sure I fully understand. If wife's murdering convict BF were to get out of prison, can he just move in under the same roof as your 7 year old. Surely there is something that you can to to protect him from living with this guy?!?! I'm scared just reading about it all. The other thing is that I can't believe that it would all be that easy to get paroled after being convicted of murder. If it is then that's a crime in itself!

Tom, getting served hits us with a mixed bag of emotions, but looking back the worst had already been done with a prolonged separation, so believe me, there are a lot worse things that can happen to us. Actually it helps us to not stay stuck waiting and hoping that these very confused spouses of ours will someday wake up.

Take care.........

Bethie
Posted By: Lissie Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/01/07 06:37 PM
Quote:
I would have to believe the Family of the Man he killed 15 years ago is still protesting his release to the parole board. Either way, these next couple/few months are going to be a pivotal turn of events in my situation. It sometimes takes the board 2 or 3 months to make a decision. Other times it's pretty quick. We'll see!


Oh Tom, I pray for you, your D, and that man's family.

IT is all so sad and so crazy.

Tom you are a great peep, fo sho
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/01/07 06:48 PM
Thanks for the reply/advice Beth. Unfortunately the over crowding situation in our prison system places the undesirables back out on the street despite public safety concerns. Aside from building more prisons or more aggressively pursuing the death penalty, there's not much chance that somebody will spend more than 15 or 20 years in prison for 2 ND degree Murder. They will sentence you to 15 to life, but there is no way your going to spend life in prison for 2 ND degree murder. You will get out in 15 to 20 years in most cases.

Over the past couple of years, I've discovered there are other oddities and irregularities In our justice system. For example, your likely to spend more time in prison for Involuntary/voluntary Manslaughter then you are for 2 ND degree Murder. Your better off purposely killing somebody than accidentally killing them if you hope to spend less time in prison. Your also more likely to spend more time in prison if your a 3 strikes drug dealer/misdemeanor offender then if you were a murderer.

Anyway, my "legal" options to protect my S7 are very limited in connection to OM getting paroled. That doesn't mean I can't take action if I perceive a threat though. I'm certainly not going to trust our justice system to protect him if it comes to that.

As far as getting served, I'm not to worried, concerned, or emotional about it. I'll deal with it when/if it comes. If she doesn't file by the end of this year, I was considering doing it myself after the new year. It's really just a clerical/administrative headache for me at this point.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/03/07 02:24 PM
Without going into a lot of detail of how I discovered it, I've found out that stbx is giving the OM money in prison. A lot of money! I'm not sure of the purpose or why he would need it, but I need to find out.

I pay child support on a monthly basis. I assume it is going for the welfare of my S7. I find out that she is giving this freak money and I'm beside myself on what (if anything) I can do about it. I don't want to see my S7 go without something because his mother can't afford to buy it. I know since I've moved out of the house and we've separated our finances that she is starting to have financial difficulties. She has told me as much. I use to feel some sympathy for her in this regard even though it is of her own making. Now, I don't know what to think.

I'm so disappointed since finding out about this. She doesn't know I'm aware of it. I don't know if I should say something or not. This OM is using her so badly and she is so unaware. What do I do next time she asked me for money beyond what I pay in child support for something that is "supposedly" for my S7's welfare? I can't enable her to do this, but she won't listen to the warnings I give her about the OM.

What do I do here?
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/09/07 03:53 PM
I needed to journal about something that transpired yesterday between stbx and myself.

I asked her if S7 could go with me to my Mom's in Florida this Christmas. We went out there as a family a few years back before all this started. Of course, she wouldn't have anything to do with that. She flat out told me no.

I accepted that and didn't really push it. It's somewhat short notice. What I did say, which I think is fair, is that I should have the option of taking him with me to Florida for Christmas in the future. At least every other Christmas. She really cut into me at that point.

My Mom said something to S7 about coming down to visit her for Christmas. She shouldn't have said anything to him before asking me, but she already put the ideal in his head and he wanted to go to Florida with Daddy for Christmas. I told him I would ask his Mom, but couldn't promise anything. Now, she's coming over as the heavy to him which I understand her point of view.

Stbx was very upset and told me I need to check with her before saying anything to S7 about a trip. She didn't know it was my Mom that mentioned it. Anyway, I lost my temper and told her she had absolutely no control over the dialog or activities between me and my S7. Of course she was irate at this ideal of having "no control" and lost it over the phone. I hung up on her, didn't want to hear the spew and have not returned any of her calls since.

Not sure how to defuse this. She's so arrogant and controlling. She controls the OM, but not me. This is creating a lot of friction. OM eats out of her hand. This is the contrast between me and OM. She feels justified in her actions/behavior because of this.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/17/07 08:40 PM
OH! IO! OH! IO!

I did feel compassion for those crying Michigan females in the crowd they were showing on TV. I felt a need to comfort them. So you see, we are not all just rabid fans, we do have our tender side.
Posted By: swashy Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/17/07 09:31 PM
Sorry man...just saw your journaling post about Christmas in FLA. Ok...well that's an icky sitch. Ugh. It's been a while..anything new developed? Yes...your mother probably should not have put that in his head before talking to you first. But that's not your fault either. And yes, I can understand that she now feels like the bad guy. Have to say it kinda sucks that she isn't happy for him and just lets him go...but not sure i'd want to be without any of my kids for Christmas too. So understandable.

You said you should be allowed to take him every other year...but would you be ok with not seeing him on the other years?
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/17/07 09:59 PM
Originally Posted By: swashy
You said you should be allowed to take him every other year...but would you be ok with not seeing him on the other years?


Honestly, I don't like the prospect of not seeing either of my boys around Christmas. STBX does a lot of things with her Family that week and takes my S7 with her, so I don't get a chance to see him that often anyway. I did have him for Christmas Eve last year and took him home Christmas morning. That was nice, but it still left a empty feeling in me when I dropped him off. This is the second Christmas since our separation.

My other ex is going to New Jersey to visit relatives with my oldest Son this Christmas, so I won't see him either. Last year, ex #1 invited me over for Christmas dinner, so I got to at least spend Christmas day with my older S14.

The only reason I considered FL was because I knew I wasn't going to get the opportunity to be with either of them for any length of time.
Posted By: swashy Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/17/07 10:32 PM
And this is the sh*ty party of D I guess.

Ok...so I guess you can then understand why she wouldn't want to go without her S on Xmas.

So the real problem is that she is blaming you for your mom opening her mouth...rigth? I think you probably should explain to S7 why it wouldn't be right for him not to be around his mom during Xmas. I'm sure he'd understand that. Anyway to go down for New Years instead?

STBX came by today to grab the kids. We went over the kids report cards, talked about D6s b-day, xmas presents, etc. She is taking them to her parents house on Xmas eve and then they are going to spend the night at my house...waking up here Xmas morning...and then go to my parents that day. This was decided on in Mediation. I stood my ground on that one. I DO NOT want to be without my kids on Xmas because of her choices.

Anywhoo..I do still feel bad that she will be. So I told her that she could stay on the couch if she wanted to or she could come up fist thing in the morning. Whatever she wanted. I mean, I know they would want her there too obviously. So we'll see.

Well heading out with S in a bit. \:\) I'll catch up with ya man.
Posted By: SallyM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/17/07 10:37 PM
any chance you could go the day after christmas, so your son could still spend some of christmas with his mom?

atgo, I personally would hate to not see my kids at all over the actual day. I am not seeing them at all on thanksgiving and its killing me, although I have comfort in the fact that I have them for the whole weekend (am driving down to VA with them to my sister's house). but for christmas, wow, that would be tough.

yeah, your wife is upset and you probably would be, too, if she talked to your son about a trip before talking to you (or someone else did, but you assumed it was her). she thought you talked to your son w/o going to her first. I would be really angry at H if he did that. yes, it was your mom, not you, and let her know that, but I'm sure you also probably understand why your wife is upset. at this point I'd just acknowledge that you understand her feelings, let her know it wasn't you, and let her know that you'll talk to your mom about stuff like that in the future. its a scary precedent to set, going to your s before you two have discused it. at least it is to me. then look into the possibility of the day after maybe.

as for the money to om, that is just gross. I don't know enough about the ins and outs of support and money and such at this point, so I'm no help, but I think your w is nuts. maybe offer to buy the item s needs that she can't afford? I don't know.

good luck!
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/17/07 11:46 PM
Thanks guys,

I understood why stbx was upset. Your right, I would be upset to. I guess I lost my temper over other matters, but used that as a catalyst. You guys know me and I'm a pretty laid back guy, I don't loose my temper easily. It was just the way she lashed out at me that caught me off guard. They know how to push those buttons, don't they?

I still have not said anything to my Mom. Her intentions are wholesome, but she's 78 years old and she is starting to show signs of Alzheimer's. I can't really explain to her what she did because I don't think she would understand. I might even hurt feelings, so I'm going to leave it alone. STBX has cooled down since then and we have not really talked in depth about it since then. I've actually only had a few email exchanges with her since. The last couple of times I picked up my S7, we have not had the need for personal contact.

Yeah Morgan, the money matters with the OM do bother me. I think that's just the beginning. If he gets out, he's going to be using her for financial support. She is so naive in that regard. I've not given her any extra money beyond the Child support and I'm not going to in the future. If she gives the OM money, then it's up to her to make up for any short fall.
Posted By: swashy Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/19/07 01:02 AM
Hey Tom. Well I think that makes sense not talking to your mom about it. And STBX as well for that matter. Let sleeping dogs lie I guess.

The money thing sucks...but good job on realizing what you can and can't control.

Hope you're good man.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/25/07 06:19 PM
My Friend impressed me today with a value she instilled in her Daughter.

Her Daughter was visiting with her Father (Friend's ex) over this weekend. He has been in a extreme depression over the last year or so and has also been battling prescription pain medicine addiction.

My Friend was telling me how her Daughter doesn't really want to be with her Father because he doesn't interact with her and she gets bored. He shuts himself in a room and leaves her to play with her cousins or Grandma/Grandpa.

Today, my Friends daughter called her and said.. "Mom, I'm bored, I want to come home now instead of later". My Friend told her... "You need to be a ray of sunshine for your Dad, you go take him by the hand and get him to go for a walk with you or something".

When I heard this, I felt very proud to be friends with her. Even after all this Man put her through (cheating, lying, emotional and physical abuse, etc), she had the grace and class to nurture her daughter's relationship with him. She was teaching her daughter to reach out instead of waiting on attention for herself.

Just a really unselfish attitude she has. She's always been that way since I've known her.
Posted By: swashy Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/25/07 06:36 PM
Hey Tom. Nice story and God love her for trying to re-build that R. I will however say, IMHO, that this is a double edge sword. Obviously the only person that get him out of that depression is himself and this girl "needing to be a ray of sunshine" for him...could be a lot of pressure for a little girl. The last thing a kid needs is to feel like it's her job to fix her daddy. Trust me my kids had to be there for my STBX all the time while she batteld her depression. It wasn't pretty.

Not trying to be critical. Her intentions are obviously impressive to say the least and it's a horrible situation to be in...sucks really. Just a fine line I guess with no easy answers.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/25/07 06:52 PM
I know Scott, the girl is only 10 years old. I think it stinks to have that burden placed on her. However, I think it would be worse when she gets older not to have some type of functioning relationship with her Dad. He's going to regret so many things when she grows up. He needs to get his sh*% together.
Posted By: swashy Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/25/07 09:59 PM
Yup...but unfortunately that is out of her control buddy. I'm not saying she shouldn't put herself out there to him...but she also has to know that he may not take her up on it and that if he doesn't...it is no reflection of her. Pretty hard concept for a 10 year old girl to grasp. Hell it was a hard concept for me to truly grasp. ;\)
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/25/07 10:39 PM
Wow, this is a tuff one! I can see both sides because my kids are in the same boat with their Dad. I do think that her Mom should get some Kudos for teaching her daughter to have compassion even when you may not be getting it back. Besides, maybe that little bit of reaching out could make a difference. Hopefully she won't make it her job or her fault if he doesn't reciprocate.

The thing is, Mom is kind of "damned if you do and damned if you don't". If she just went and got the little girl what is that teaching her? Maybe to just give up on him as he did with her? Not having a parent in their life would leave a void in any child.

Like I said, this is a tuff one, but I like ATGO's friend for what she did and I don't even know here!

Sorry to hear about the mess with your Christmas plans. I hope you can work things out in a way that's best for everyone. It's early possibly ex will give it some more thought!

Love,
Bethie
Posted By: swashy Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/25/07 10:50 PM
Tough one for sure. I agree - I like her too! Effort counts for a lot in my book.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/25/07 10:58 PM
I wouldn't put the burden on the Child if the Father wouldn't reciprocate, but I at least think it's a good ideal to at least try.

This guy keeps blaming my friend for all his woes. He's lost his business because she successfully managed it when they were married, he doesn't pay her child support, won't look for a job, and he's addicted to pain killers. He's constantly calling her up and crying about his plight. She once told me she felt like his Mother instead of his Wife. He won't take any responsibility for his own actions. Real winner here. I feel sorry for her and her daughter.
Posted By: SallyM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/26/07 01:06 AM
hey atgo,

tough situation about your friend. I can see how she wants to keep a relationship for her daughter with her ex, but wow, that is a lot of pressure. add to it the fact that she is an addict, she's already set up for some therapy now, if not later in life. so hard on kids. any chance her daughter is getting some therapy now to help her deal with it all?

I am happy to hear that your friend seems like such a stable person, definitely a good role model for her daughter. that will help take her far, I'm sure. \:\)

hope you had a nice thanksgiving!
Posted By: swashy Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/26/07 01:25 AM
It's always someone else's fault Tom...always. And we all know that he'll never do anything with his life as long as he's the victim. Sad. Such a waste.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/30/07 12:13 AM
I'm starting to care about somebody and I'm not sure I should continue seeing/talking with her or break it off before it heats up anymore than it already has. It hasn't gone into the bedroom yet, but If I don't stop myself and her it will end up there real soon.

This stuff scares me anymore. I was perfectly fine just casually dating, but I guess I got caught off guard with this one. We are like magnets to each other. We click like a finely tuned clock.

I didn't see this coming so soon. It's only been two years since I've been separated and IM not even legally divorced yet. I've dated 14 woman in the last 6 months (some more than once) and none of them gave me this kind of motivation. They were just good company and that was fine until now.

Am I asking for trouble or what? I don't know if I can trust my instincts anymore when it comes to relationships. I'm just so tired of having that wall up all the time. You guys know what I mean by that wall. Mine was steel, but she's taken a torch to it and I'm kind of enjoying the heat from it.
Posted By: SallyM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/30/07 12:19 AM
what are you afraid of?

(and omg, 14 women in 6 months? are you trying to give scott a run for his money?)
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/30/07 12:20 AM
The Wall???? Yup I know what that's all about!!!!

So what's the worst thing that can happen? Are you afraid of getting hurt or hurting her? This is obviously different then your casual dating previously. Why not take a leap of faith and see where it goes?
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/30/07 12:56 AM
I want to take a leap, it's been a long time and I never thought I'd be facing this so soon. I am afraid of hurting her or myself and that's why I'm hesitant.

On the other hand, I'm tired of being so damn cautious in this area of my life.
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/30/07 03:22 AM
Tom,

Did you ever think of letting her in on how you feel. Maybe it wouldn't hurt and at the sametime you would get some feedback on how she sees it. Communication remember??? That's the thing we forgot to do in our marriages!

Just a thought.
Posted By: SallyM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/30/07 04:12 PM
I agree, communication, communication, communication!

hell, I realized even in divorce our communication stinks. I'm trying to change that, but h isn't, so guessing its just how our relationship will be from beginning to end. thankfully the kid-stuff we do well.

but yeah, I'd talk to her about your concerns, etc.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/30/07 10:23 PM
Beth,

The strange part is I really think we are on the same page without saying anything. I think this connection we are feeling is awkward for both of us, so we try not to talk about it and just enjoy each other's company.
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 11/30/07 10:27 PM
Tom,

You can't "think it" we thought a lot of things in our marriage. The only way you ever really know where someone is is by talking it threw. I would bet that was a big mistake with your wife. I know it was mine, with my husband of course, not your wife!
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 01:07 AM
True Beth, we did think a lot of things in our marriage that didn't turn out to be the reality.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 04:01 PM
November has come and gone, but there is still no decision on OM's parole. At least there is no indication on the Offender web site. I don't know if that bodes well for him or not. I'll just keep checking the site. It will eventually post a decision and the release date is usually a month or two after the final decision, so there will be time to prepare myself and S7.

STBX has received wind of the budding relationship I'm in. Not surprising news travels fast in our circle of friends and family. She sent me an email last night requesting I talk to her before any possible introduction of OW to our S7. I told her I didn't have any immediate plans to introduce her to him, but that I would respect her request and let her know if/when I'm going to.

OW has already introduced me to her daughter. We are kind of approaching it in a manner that is slow but steady. Kind of like wadding into a pool from the shallow end and slowly working our way into the deep end. Our encounter was only an hour long (lunch), but I sensed her daughter was comfortable around me. She already knew about me from a picture she saw of me that her Mom's had. She inquired about me and I guess that's when her Mom filled her in on all the details and felt the need to introduce me to her. We are going to approach this with honesty and tactfulness. I'm really still kind of timid in this relationship, but it's been ongoing for two months now. I've been dating many Woman over the past 6/7 months, but never just one that I've paid this much attention to and for this length of time. It's unavoidable and unfortunate for me that any of my relationships with OW beyond a week or two in length will be discovered. I have to many Sisters and they all have the gift of gab if you know what I mean. It inevitably gets back to stbx.

Anyway, I'm stuck here at work all day. Guess that's not so bad since a huge snow/rain/ice storm is slowly approaching. I'd be indoors anyway.

Hope everyone is having a good day!
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 05:43 PM
Tom,

It's all good! You're going about this in the right way for all concerned so don't overthink this.

I know that you're hesitant, as you should be considering, but life does go on. There comes a point when we all have to get back out there and take a chance. It sounds like you have dated, and you know the difference between this relationship, and the fact the with the others there were no sparks. Good for you. You weren't needy and you didn't settle. I think that that says a whole about where you are! Ex shouldn't even come into the equasion. That books been written!

As far as OM goes, I hope for your son's sake, his parole is a longtime away. Personally that would be very scary to me to have to worry about my child and OM under the same roof. The fact that your ex doesn't get that, goes to show just how messed up she really is.

Have you figured out anymore about what your plans will be for Christmas? Put your energy there. It will be here before you know it!

Love,
Bethie ;\)
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 07:12 PM
Hey Beth,

How you doing today? My stbx won't even acknowledge her relationship with the OM let alone "get" it. She's ashamed/embarrassed of her love for him. She's very secretive about him to her Family and friends, but she knows better than to try and fool me. I think she's waiting on the decision of the parole board and then will have no choice but to come clean with her family and friends if he does get released. I can see the stress in her face when I mention his name. She knows she won't have the control with him she had in the past. She's actually going to have to face her decision. Can you imagine me asking her the same question she asked me... to discuss OW with her before S7's introduction. She would get mad and start spewing if I brought up the OM and introducing him to S7. That will change quickly if/when he gets out. Your right, she is messed up.

Hey, you know how they have that series.. "Girls gone wild"? Well, I was thinking about taking that into new territory. How about.... "WAW's/WAH's gone wild"? Would you watch it? We could probably write scripts for the show..... LOL!

I'm really looking forward to this Christmas. I don't have that stress of all this crap I had last Christmas or the Christmas before. I was going to go to FL to visit my Mom for Christmas and New Years, but I changed my mind. I'm going to stick around and spend some time with my Boys since I can't take them with me. I have them tonight and all day Sunday and will be dropping them off at School Monday morning. We are going to cut down our tree tomorrow and they are going to help me decorate it. I just had this crappy little Charlie Brown tree last Christmas, so I'm getting a bigger and better one this year. I'm getting into the Spirit this year. It really makes a difference when you don't have all that unsettled crap on your mind.
Posted By: SallyM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 08:23 PM
sounds like you have a good christmas planned, tom! any chance you can take the kids to florida later in the winter? do you get feb break like we do here in new england?

as for wah's gone wild, my h would be the star. he'd be on all the promo reels and sure as hell would have some interesting blooper ones. sigh.

I think its a good idea on both sides to tell the other one before introducing an new person into the kids lives. I sure as hell would be angry if h did it w/o talking to me first. and I will happily do the same, if it should ever come up. it will be a very, very long time before I introduce any man into their lives, though. I don't want to add to any abandonment issues they may already have. I know any new man won't be their parent, but at the same time, kids get attached. I don't want them to see a revolving door of people in my life. I guess my dream right now is to find someone eventually that I want to spend my life with, and show them that relationships can and do work.

I hate that H has done all of this. I especially hate that it affects my kids...they will now be more likely to divorce. I would love to be able to show them the kind of permanence with someone else someday that I wish my marriage to their father had been able to show them.

I suppose H and OW could model that for them, too, but I wouldn't bet a lot of money on it.
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 09:22 PM
Tom & M,

From what I've read of both your situations, I don't see much hope for anything lasting. So as far as your spouses
re-creating a new family, I hope you're not holding your breath! That of course makes it all the sadder for our kids because then you have to wonder, what was it all for?

Julie and I were talking this morning and she commented on how she think of this as an epidemic. It sure does seem that way, doesn't it? I think that as long as people overlook the fact that someone just up and left their family, it will probably continue to get worse. We have become an enabler society.

Again M, you continue to open yourself up to a whole can of worms. Most of the x's would be fighting for camera time. HM, wonder if Tom can sell a production company on 'Walkaway's Gone Wild'? I think that all of our whiners who think they missed out on everything the first time around would love the thought of taking their turn at a Spring break scenario to play out all of those pent up "I got screwed by life" feelings. Mine is a coward. He's the type that would go but not be too out there. He'd probably just flash where your's would probably strut their stuff! Watch??? Are you kidding me? I'd be front and center!

;\)
Posted By: SallyM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 09:31 PM
I agree, I think it is an epidemic. my h actually said to me that he knew what he was doing was fine because so many other people do it, too.

um, hello, if they all jumped off a bridge, would you, too?

yeah, he's 37 going on 14, what can I say.

idiot.

oh hell yeah mine would be front and center. now, what if there was an LBS gone wild video? lol. not sure where I would fit in, but hopefully dancing on a table somewhere. hehehe.
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 09:36 PM
HAHAHA....my girls already told me that I wouldn't ever have to worry about seeing them in a girls gone wild tape......they said that that would be me. I'm a little wilder then they are...just a bit! ;\)
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 09:42 PM
I do think it's an epidemic and I hate to see where the institution of M will be in 10 or 20 years.

There was actually a German Politician (Woman) who proposed the ideal of Marriages that dissolve automatically after 7 years unless the couple renews it legally through the State. I'll try to find the article. She was dead serious about it.

I know for a fact I will never be divorced again, because there is no doubt in my mind I will ever marry again. I've not lost faith in romance, love, and commitment, but I have lost faith in the institution of marriage. I have to tell you, I think this German politician may be on to something.
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 09:47 PM
Oh Tom,

That's sad! Not me, with the right person I'd take the plunge again. Don't you think you know so much more now then you did previously? I mean I wouldn't do it unless I had absolutely no questions..but never say never !
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 09:48 PM
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/German_politician_proposes_seven_ye_09192007.html
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 09:53 PM
Originally Posted By: BethM
Oh Tom,

Don't you think you know so much more now then you did previously?


Precisely why I wouldn't get married again. I could be just as committed, faithful and loving in a cohabitational arrangement. Why let the State get involved in my personal life?
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 09:53 PM
Sobering article. Why even make a commitment? You might as well just live together and avoid any of the messy stuff altogether!
Posted By: SallyM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 09:56 PM
I will NOT allow h to ruin my belief in happily ever after. just because I drew the short straw, does not mean that I would want anything less than a forever marriage again someday. I like to think that all I have learned thru this experience will help me create a stronger, better marriage next time. I sure as hell am not interesting in the 5 year renewal plan (or 7 year or whatever)

am curious, does the woman you are seeing right now know how you feel?
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 09:56 PM
Ok point taken. What if you were in a committed relationship and after a period of time your live in came to you and said that she wanted to make it legal? So you love her and are committed, now what do you do?
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 10:02 PM
Originally Posted By: SallyM
am curious, does the woman you are seeing right now know how you feel?


Yes she does. We've discussed it already. She was cheated on and dumped by her last H, so she understands where I'm coming from.
Posted By: SallyM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 10:05 PM
that's good, tom. well, as long as you and whatever woman you want this type of relationship are cool with it, I say go for it.

personally, its not for me. and I hope it doesn't become the norm.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 10:08 PM
Originally Posted By: BethM
What if you were in a committed relationship and after a period of time your live in came to you and said that she wanted to make it legal? So you love her and are committed, now what do you do?


If she really loved me, she would not force that on me. If she left me because I wouldn't sign a State notarized piece of paper proving my love, then we probably were not meant to be anyway.

You know, marriage was not always a staple of civilized society regardless of what we have been taught. There were many successful civilizations throughout history where the concept of M would have been foreign.
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 10:25 PM
Blah blah blah.......I know all of that Tom.

Ok, so why would it be so cut and dried. Maybe she loves you so much that she would want you to be her husband. What about give and take and compromise? What if her need to make it legal was as strong as yours to not go down that road? Would their be a dialogue?
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 10:43 PM
I'm curious why the legality of it stirs such passion in a Woman?

It didn't keep anyone's ex from walking out or choosing another mate. Why is it still so important?
Posted By: SallyM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 11:18 PM
its not just the legality, its the sacredness with which I view marriage.

it didn't keep my h from leaving me, but it sure kept me from leaving him when I felt that ebb. and yes, I did feel it once or twice...I believe every relationship has ebbs and flows that are natural to it. I think having something so casual makes it much easier to just leave, to abandon, when things get hard. instead of working thru things and coming out the other side. marriage doesn't always make people work, but I'd bet that more people would just walk away without it.

and I don't think that's a woman or man thing. obviously the woman you are involved with is fine with how you think, and probably even like minded. and I think that is great for you guys. I think that is really wonderful that you both have been so upfront and honest about it. hopefully, should you guys continue in your relationship, the scenerio beth suggested won't even be an issue.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/01/07 11:47 PM
Maybe I'm jaded Sally, I don't know. We never even discussed divorce in my Catholic School religion classes. It was one of those taboos. In retrospect, it was an injustice to not even touch on the subject. They gave us rose colored glasses when they discussed Marriage in terms of the "sacred" bond. Kind of like how they give you 3d glasses when you go to see a 3d movie. Have you ever watched a 3d movie without the glasses? Pretty distorted, isn't it?

I'm not going to rely on what marriage is suppose to represent anymore, I'm going to learn what it takes to make a relationship last and that's what I'm going to practice.

I probably became to complacent thinking that the legality or moral commitment of my marriages would save it against any issue that would come up.

I've learned much since the days of Religion class. I probably would have been better served to take more human psychology courses.
Posted By: SallyM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/02/07 12:22 AM
well, divorce is never going to be a big subject in catholic school religion classes. lord knows it wasn't in mine. marriage wasn't a big subject, either, come to think of it. fresh year was scripture, soph was morality, jr was catholic doctrine, and senior year, hmmm, can't quite remember what class that was now. I suppose considering it was 20 plus years ago, I'm doing good remembering the rest! lol. and honestly I think focusing on marriage as a commitment, as a sacrament, is more in keeping with the catholic faith rather than tackling divorce.

its very easy to become complacent, but I think it would be easy in the scenerio you are suggesting, too, its just a different kind of complacency.

I think the best we can all do is know what we want for our own futures, and find a way to go about making those futures a reality...we need to be true to ourselves. if that means a relationship with no legal ties, well, that's great. I really do mean that.

I think its interesting, actually, that so many people I know have fought for the right to be married at all (gay/lesbian friends), while so many hetero couples are bailing on the idea of marriage.

but I guess it comes down to what feels right for each individual, for each couple. again, it comes down to figuring out what feels right to you, and what feels right to me, and each of us pursuing that path.

me, I'm a complete pollyana. I am. I believe in happily ever after. I'd sing with the damn birds in central park like giselle in enchanted if given a chance. lol. its just who I am. I'm a forever kind of girl. I just hope the next guy doesn't turn into such a frog. \:\)
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 12:53 AM
My OW lives in a State next to me. I didn't choose for it to be that way, it just happened. She lives 168 miles away. I'm going to visit her next week.

Her very young friend and co-worker invited her and I to a dress up disco party. Oh joy!!! I guess the disco era is kind of a popular party ideal with some of the younger people in her area. It is a pretty boring place actually. I hope the youngsters don't ask me how it really was back then... lol!

Time to pull out the silk shirt....

Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk.

Ah, ha, ha, ha, stayin' alive, stayin' alive......
Posted By: ford Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 01:04 AM
Originally Posted By: Astimegoeson
Time to pull out the silk shirt....

Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk.

Ah, ha, ha, ha, stayin' alive, stayin' alive......


ROFL!!! oh man!!
Posted By: SallyM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 01:30 AM
tom, is ow the young chick you were talking about????

lol about the disco party. ya gotta post a picture. if you happen to have an old 8 track tape and player tucked away, you'll be a hero. \:\)

hey, could be worse. I hear 80s ones are all the rage now. sigh. I probably still have a pair of acid washed jeans packed away in a box somewhere. not that I could squeeze into them, but they are there, somewhere.
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 01:37 AM
Quote:
Maybe I'm jaded - Ya think? Heck, how can we not be? I didn't think trust issues were a problem for me until someone wants to get too close.

We never even discussed divorce in my Catholic School religion classes. It was one of those taboos. In retrospect, it was an injustice to not even touch on the subject. They gave us rose colored glasses when they discussed Marriage in terms of the "sacred" bond. Kind of like how they give you 3d glasses when you go to see a 3d movie. Have you ever watched a 3d movie without the glasses? Pretty distorted, isn't it?

Yeah, it's really weird isn't it? I never saw myself in this position. Growing up everyone I knew was Catholic and no one was divorced. It sounds silly but I have always thought of it as a sacred bond.

I'm not going to rely on what marriage is suppose to represent anymore, I'm going to learn what it takes to make a relationship last and that's what I'm going to practice.

AMEN!!!


I've learned much since the days of Religion class. I probably would have been better served to take more human psychology courses.


Or maybe you should have studied Monkey's
Posted By: Lissie Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 03:03 AM
Quote:
Time to pull out the silk shirt....

Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk.

Ah, ha, ha, ha, stayin' alive, stayin' alive......



OMG I peeeeeed.

Tom you are gonna be looking FLY
Posted By: bright_new_day Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 03:06 AM
Quote:
well, divorce is never going to be a big subject in catholic school religion classes. lord knows it wasn't in mine. marriage wasn't a big subject, either, come to think of it. fresh year was scripture, soph was morality, jr was catholic doctrine, and senior year, hmmm, can't quite remember what class that was now.


My senior year religion was "narriage and family living." H went to public school and dropped out before his senior year anyway. LOL
Posted By: koshka Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 03:39 AM
I had sixteen years of Catholic school, if you count the senior year of high school that I never finished. Discussions of marriage and sex were part of religion class during my sophomore year in high school.

As far as I'm concerned, marriage is a sacred bond. If it weren't, then I wouldn't need to consecrate it in a church, wouldn't need to take vows, etc.

Quote:
You know, marriage was not always a staple of civilized society regardless of what we have been taught. There were many successful civilizations throughout history where the concept of M would have been foreign.

I'm not an anthropologist or historian, but off the top of my head I don't know of any cultures which don't/didn't have the concept of marriage. I'd be interested to know more about them, if you could post some links to info sources on them.

People will choose for themselves in the US of A, at any rate. I went into my marriage believing that my ex-wife considered it to be a sacred, lifetime, exclusive bond. It seemed the most natural thing in the world to me. Now I will be much more careful about seeing how a woman lives her life, how she puts her religious and spiritual beliefs into action, before I get into any kind of capital "R" relationship. My ex-wife wasn't/isn't Catholic, but she never joined any congregation of any faith in all the time I knew her. Catholic is not a "requirement" for my next relationship, but an active religion is.

On a completely unrelated front, S15 joined us to watch Bill Murray in "Scrooge" and overdose on chocolate tonight. \:\)

Thanks,

Joe
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 02:22 PM
Originally Posted By: koshka
I'm not an anthropologist or historian, but off the top of my head I don't know of any cultures which don't/didn't have the concept of marriage.


The ideal of "marriage" in ancient Rome was that of a mutual consent and didn't require the approval of the State or a religious institution. Same goes for ancient Greece. Divorce Lawyers back then would have starved to death!

The "contract" of marriage wasn't in existence until the medieval Christian church placed a higher significance and stature to it.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 02:47 PM
Originally Posted By: BethM
Or maybe you should have studied Monkey's


I agree we could learn allot about commitment and devotion from these primates.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 02:59 PM
Originally Posted By: Lissie
Tom you are gonna be looking FLY


http://www.starpulse.com/Movies/Saturday_Night_Fever/gallery/1638984/
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 03:11 PM
Originally Posted By: SallyM
lol about the disco party. ya gotta post a picture. if you happen to have an old 8 track tape and player tucked away, you'll be a hero. \:\)



Do you remember when custom Vans were the trend? I had one complete with shag carpet, panel walls, a fish eye window on the side, and a 8 track tape player.

My first 8 track tape was Steely Dan...

Way back when
In sixty-seven
I was the dandy
Of gamma chi
Sweet things from boston
So young and willing.......
Posted By: kml Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 03:26 PM
LOL!!! I just saw in our local paper that the is a "Hustle Club" complete with free lessons beforehand!!! I guess everything old is new again.

Ellie
Posted By: sofaraway Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 03:44 PM
Ahhh Tom, nothing like a little Hey Nineteen to get you going......

Disco Duck was all the rage........

Have a blast dude....
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 04:00 PM
This is so cool,,,,, I was given a dollar bill as change last night at a local club. On it was written "wheresgeorge.com" I just went to this site and traced where this bill has been and how far it's traveled. Wonder if there is a site... "whereismyex.com" where we can track our WAS's

Very cool site. I'm so easily amused these days.. LOL!
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/09/07 04:03 PM
Hey thanks Ian! Where have you been buddy? I see you've made a new home in surviving... I don't know whether to say I'm sorry or congratulate you. Maybe both of those sentiments would be appropriate.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/13/07 08:49 PM
I think the OW from the long distance relationship is confused on whether she wants to continue this relationship or not.

One minute she tells me she feels bad because she pursues something she wants instead of what's best. I have no ideal what she means by that. When she starts to get a little flaky, I leave her alone and don't call. The minute I don't contact her, she's calling me saying she's always thinking of me and doesn't care about the distance or the baggage we are both carrying around.

I'm starting to think I should move on. She's been indecisive and give me conflicting signals all the time. I told her I'm just living in the here and now and not looking at the distance between us as an obstacle. I told her I would understand if she didn't want to continue on with our relationship.

I think she's afraid to hurt me, but I have some pretty thick skin these days. Other times, she's calling me telling me she's thinking of me constantly.

I just don't know what to make of it. This dating stuff is confusing for me sometimes. There is OW who wants to go out with me, but tells me she doesn't want to get involved with a guy who's just fresh on the dating scene, she wants to settle down... WTF? How else do you settle down with somebody if you don't go out and date. Now she says were just friends going out, but her eyes say something different when she's around me. She a hard read to.

How do you play this game? Where is the rule book? I just want to have some fun for a change. Why does there always need to be drama?
Posted By: WildThing Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/13/07 08:54 PM
Tom,

It seems to me that sometimes people, especially those looking at us from the outside, attach a lot more expectations to our relationships than we do ourselves. The question is, how thick is that skin?

If you really are just having fun, then it seems to me that she should know how you view her. Is she a great friend that could be more, but for the time being doesn't have to be? Is she more? Is she less? Just my $.02. My experience suggests that keeping it simple is the way to go. Of course, my experience also suggests that a lot of other peoples' opinions are biased and full of sh!t, so maybe you shouldn't listen to me after all.

Hope that's clear as mud.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/13/07 09:50 PM
Originally Posted By: WildThing
Is she a great friend that could be more, but for the time being doesn't have to be?


That's the ticket! I told her this same thing.
Posted By: WildThing Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/13/07 09:51 PM
Amen brother.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/20/07 05:14 PM
Update..

STBX sent me an email out of the blue yesterday. We have not talked or corresponded in the last week.

Email...

"FYI,

Just wanted to give you a heads up that you will be served at the end of next week. I expect a response within 3 weeks. Read the cover page and it will explain."



I did not respond. I felt like responding... "Why don't you just have me served Christmas morning?"

I was expecting it soon, but couldn't she wait until after the holidays? Is there some hidden meaning behind doing it the week of Christmas?

I guess it doesn't matter about the timing, just seems like she is being a cold harted you know what about it. I've talked to a few friends and family and of course, they are bias, but they all tell me they think this is a blessing in disguise for me. I dreaded and was eager for this day at the same time. Does that make sense?

Marry Christmas everyone!
Posted By: WildThing Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/20/07 05:26 PM
Makes perfect sense, Tom. But now that weight's off your shoulders too. Merry Xmas, Happy New Year, and Godspeed!
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/20/07 05:35 PM
TOM!!!!!

Where have you been? I was so worried. I thought that since you usually write from work, that you either got fired or were actually doing something!

Yes, that e-mail was harsh and serving someone on Christmas eve is heartless. I've gotta' tell you though in reading her e-mail, although she was right to the point, she seems like a very angry woman not unlike so many other spouses. It's as if she's treating you like you did this to her.

So let them serve you and it will be over with. Just a piece of paper. For all intent and purpose you have been physically divorced for a longtime. How will this change anything. These are all of the things I told myself over and over again and I gotta' tell you, I gave myself some great advice. Reminding myself of the reality got me through.........

Am I good or what?

Love,
Bethie
Posted By: SallyM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/20/07 05:38 PM
wow. I'm sorry, tom. My thoughts are that they are so self-involved they want their own lives wrapped up, my h included, so they don't care what kind of heartache they leave behind in the process.

wonder what happens if you don't respond? seriously...I have no idea, I don't know the divorce process. she says you have 3 weeks...well, what happens then? (not making a suggestion, really just curious).
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/20/07 05:40 PM
Sally,

If you don't respond ( and usually you have at least 30 days) then it's considered uncontested. Noway was I going to sit back and let THAT happen!
Posted By: SallyM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/20/07 05:41 PM
so what does that mean, uncontested? I know I sound like an idiot...what does that mean? how does that divide things up? does that mean the person who filed gets everything?
Posted By: fig Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/20/07 05:53 PM
LSS never responded

it means I got everything I asked for

so uncontested means that you agree with everything in the paperwork that they submitted.

hopefully you would have met before or gone through mediation but if you haven't and they ask for everything and you don't reply...they get everything
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/20/07 06:02 PM
Thanks for the support!. It's nice to have someplace to go where folks understand what your going through.

WT... It's a weight off my shoulder that the process has started. I figured I had to take care of this sooner or later. I really do want to get on with my life. I'm the type who will roll up their sleeves and get the job done when I have to but sometimes, it takes a shove or push to get me started. This is my shove I guess.

Sally.. You know, I've wonder what happens if I don't respond in 3 weeks either, but I guess that will be something my Lawyer will have to deal with. I know you can always delay, delay, and delay some more when it comes to legal matters, so I'm not worried that much about time constraints. The first thing my Lawyer told me is not to panic, there's time to work out a suitable agreement.

Beth... LOL, I've been pulled in about 3 different directions in the last couple of weeks. At work, and when I'm off. I have not had as much time lately to update and check everyone's status. I have really been getting a life here lately whether I tried to or not... lol! I'd die for some quit time at home by myself!

She is very angry, you are right. We have been separated for two years this Christmas. How long do they hold on to this anger? I can't still be the source of it after 2 years, can I? Plus the fact she has prince charming waiting in the wings depending on what the parole board decides.. LOL! She should be happy, but she is even more miserable. I actually feel sorry for her at times believe it or not.
Posted By: BethM Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/20/07 06:29 PM
Tom,

Personally I think that most of them can not even work through the anger until after the divorce and that's only because they finally realize that just maybe we weren't the root cause. My Therapist said this very thing to me way before I was divorced. She said that he was unhappy at home, he was unhappy on his own, but all the while he could tell himself that because I was still holding him down by being married, that once he was divorced, all would be well in his world. It's not until they realize that
there life is no different or happier, and in some cases worse. Then I think they may even (or in some cases at least) start to look at things differently.

About the time frame to respond. Initially you do only have so long and fig is right, if you don't respond you are in essence saying that I have agreed to whatever they demand. But you're right Tom, it can be dragged out indefinitely if that's what someone would want.
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/20/07 06:48 PM
Tom, if you are already represented, your lawyer can accept service for you; there is no reason to have you personally served. And if she has counsel, and they have been made aware that you have a lawyer, it would be completely inappropriate for them to cause you to be served personally when there's a lawyer to accept service on your behalf.

And yes, failure to answer within the time prescribed by law would result in your being in default, and would essentially constitute your admission of all her claims and your acceptance of her prayers for relief. But 21 days sounds like an arbitrary time frame under any statutory scheme; again, your counsel will know the time required for answering, and I assume he will also assert a counterclaim on your behalf.

Sorry for this, under any circumstances, but especially now.

besos,
BA
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/20/07 08:44 PM
I'd like to read the papers myself, so I'm OK with getting served.

I have every intention to respond, but I will take the time to negotiate our differences, if any.
Posted By: inspiredjulie Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/20/07 08:50 PM
hey Tom...

just stopping by for a hello & an 'I'm thinking about ya'!
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/20/07 10:46 PM
Well that's fine if you have a reason to want to be served. My only point was that it doesn't have to be done her way just because she's blown in like some 600 pound gorilla and said, "hey guess what, you're gonna be served." Um, no, Sugar, it won't work like that just cause you say it will...there are other ways to go about it.

I just despise people who get all vigilante with divorce papers, like they're firing some damn cannonball across the bow. What the hell is that? There is actually a civilized way to do it within the court system that decent people generally follow.
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/21/07 01:06 PM
Thanks for the well wishes Julie. I appreciate you stopping by!

BA, I'm hoping we can come to a civilized agreement regardless of the timing, her attitude, or the circumstances. Maybe when we start getting into the beef of this process, she'll approach it as business and take the emotion out of it. That's the way I intend on approaching it. There is a way we can both survive this financially, legally, and emotionally and it's really in both of our best interest to negotiate in this manner. I'm hoping when she simmers down, she'll be a little less vindictive, and more business like about the process.
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Serenity at last! part III - 12/21/07 01:33 PM
I hope she will too...good for you that you are not letting her piss poor attitude derail you.

What exactly does she have to be vindictive about anyway?

besos,
BA
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