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Posted By: Toomanywords Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/06/06 01:33 PM
Now the question is where to live.

Living with my stepdad would save me money. But I have to worry about my dog. I have to worry about my stepdad's drinking. I have to worry about my stepdad not liking my boyfriend (if we stay together). All my stuff is in boxes. My bedroom is overtaken by my bed. (I literally have about 3 feet of walking space in my room)

I could move into a cheap apartment. (I found 1 that seems really nice for $405/month that accepts dogs, that is close to both places of work. Washing/Dryer in the unit) 2 bedroom is only $559. Security deposit $99 & I have an ad With 2 bedroom I could have a bedroom and an office or have a roommate.

I have an interview on April 17th for an executive secretary position at a nonprofit organization. It was odd, I applied for a vocational counselor and based on my experience & the fact that the secretary who has been there for 16 years just quit - the boss lady wanted to ask if I'd consider the secretary job.
Posted By: BarbieDoll Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/06/06 01:50 PM
That's great about the job offer. I would wait and see what happens with that before signing on an apt. You can even move in with Step Dad for a couple of weeks. If you get the job and it pays enough for you to pay off debt while keeping up on rent etc - go for it then. I still think getting out of debt is #1 priority. Oops, make that #2. Getting rid of BF would be #1 in my books.

Honestly, I really think you need to work on your decision making process taking all things into account, make pros and cons lists. I'm really getting the feeling that you are fence sitting and hoping we will make your decisions for you, then when we make sensible suggestions, you tell us why they don't work. Part of what we have learned on this bb is to be Pro Active and Solution Orientated. Let's see you make a decision and live with the consequences. We can only make suggestions - it is your life.

Barb
Posted By: qoe100 Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/06/06 02:31 PM
TMW,
I kind of agree with Barb. Although, I don't think you're waiting for "us" to make decisions, but rather, for BF to make them.

I really hope you take this opportunity that's presenting itself to work on "you" (meaning, finances, possible new job, etc) and not BF and his lousy attitude about most everything. You really can do better than him.

I know it seems like we're all here BF bashing, but as outsiders we can all see what a loser he is. You deserve so much better. However....YOU have to be the one to know that.
Posted By: kml Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/06/06 04:14 PM
$405/mo x 12 months = $4860 - wouldn't that help you out a WHOLE lot with your debt? You could even use some of that to hire a neighbor kid to walk the dog in the afternoons?

You can always move into an apartment if it doesn't work out later.

Ellie
I use this board as an idea bouncer, for suggestions, ideas. For fresh perspectives from people who don't interact with me every single day.

If I did get this apartment, I just wouldn't pay off my debt as fast I would have by just staying with my stepdad. Nothing is final.
No, the problem is I can't have ANYONE walk my dog or anything because my stepdad doesn't trust anyone to have a key or be in the house for any reason when he isn't there.
......$405/mo x 12 months = $4860 - wouldn't that help you out a WHOLE lot with your debt? .....

when you add utilities, it's probably easily $6500.
Posted By: BarbieDoll Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/06/06 07:01 PM
TMW: I understand that but I felt my post was right on. I teach kids. I tell them that "CAN'T" is a 4 letter word. I see you putting up so many roadblocks and using the word "CAN'T". This is just my own observation. Remember - it is up to ourselves to make things happen in our lives. Postive attitude is the way to go. Do what will make things best for your future. Look ahead 2 years, not 2 months. JMHO. Ellie and SC make very good points.

Barb
Posted By: whitelight Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/07/06 12:47 AM
TMW,

I could see how getting a cheap apartment would help you move forward in your life. It might get depressing staying with step dad.
It's easier to have a social life if you have a home of your own.
5000 for a year is really not that much.
If you got a roommate, that would be cool, too.

Nowhere in there did I read that BF would be living there. Am I right?

Just want to confirm that. If you plan on having BF there, then I suggest foing back to stepdad's.

How about a nice middle ground. Go to step dad;s until you find a more satisfying full time job. After you secure that, you'll move into your own place as a reward!

How about it? SOunds good, yeah?

No one asked me, but that typically does not stop me from volunteering...

I think it might be a good idea to move in with step dad, but only short term. It will keep expenses to an absolute minimum, but it does have drawbacks. I think it's a good short term plan, while TMW finds better employment, and locates both an apartment AND a financially solvent roomate. Once she has a better job, and had found a good roommate, then getting that apartment is a good thing.

Jumping to the apartment has it's appeal, but also has risks. Its more expensive, and does not allow her to meet her goal of reducing debt. However, as soon as she has a better job situation, and has a roommate lined up, she could very well enjoy this move to an apartment--without having to pay the rent and utilities on her own. (or deal with BF thinking it might be easy to just move in, thus blocking the opportunity of the paying roommate.)

Posted By: BarbieDoll Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/07/06 12:11 PM
I second Second! This is your "OUT" with BF and since you have no binding contract with Step Dad you can move in for just as long as you need to get things financially on track and investigate all your options with respect to apt and room mate. All the while, you are paying off debt and saving your downpayments.

With respect to BF, maybe you should go back 5 months start reading all your posts about him. Has it got better? How many times have you justified his behaviour and made excuses for him? If you're not ready to break it off - take a step back and just date him, don't live with him. The dynamics will change greatly. You are a nurturer and realize he needs to be taken care of but right now - its YOU who you need to take care of. You and your dog.

TMW, I'm not mean and I'm not usually this outspoken but I think you come here for advice so I hope mine is helping. It has been my experience (and a common one) that men do NOT get better in time unless they make a great effort to change themselves. Admitting their mistakes, not blaming others is the first step. Your BF would need to make a lot of HUGE changes in my opinion to be ready to settle down. I would use the lack of suitable living space as the reason to ditch him. Don't listen to his Mom, she sees you as his saviour and it takes a load off of her.

JMHO for what it's worth,

Have a good one! TGIF!

Barb
I am going to look at the apartment today. If I love it, I might go for it. If I don't, I won't.

I went to talk to my stepdad yesterday - to talk about moving in, the furniture I've aquired, the dog. It seemed like he couldn't keep focus. He kept talking about his work, the work he has lined up, stuff he is doing or wants to do to the house.

If/when I do get an apartment or anything - I'm thinking it will be me for a while. BF has to redeem himself in major ways for me to think about living with him permanently. All this week he hasn't shown any initiative to find a job or try to figure out anything in his life. I understand he's probably a bit down, but since he won't talk about anything - I can't help in any way.
The only things he has done are clean the condo for when they came to measure for carpet, he did a load of laundry, and yesterday I think he looked through the classifieds. I love him, but I am so frustrated with him. I'm also trying to be careful in what I say or do because I am a bit hormonal right now
Posted By: qoe100 Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/07/06 12:34 PM
TMW
FWIW, I don't really believe you love BF. You are just afraid to be alone. How can you love someone that you have no respect for? How can you love a "man" that you have to mother? How can you love someone that is lazy and dishonest?

You come here for advice, yet, you don't use it to help your situation. It's very frustrating. We have all been telling you for months to ditch BF, make yourself financially stable, find a better job and live with your SD for awhile.

I know it must seem to you like we're all ganging up on you....but honestly, that is not our intent. We want to see you independant, happy and able to function alone. You are not happy with your life right now, so make some of the changes that have been suggested. What do you have to lose?
Posted By: whitelight Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/11/06 01:31 AM
Hey T, how you doing?
I'm alright. A bit down about going to SD's and the sale of MY first "home".
And I just know how hard it is going to be - since I talk to my dad and my mom.

Yesterday I got a call from the other title company saying they got a call from the bank and the bank wants to use that title company. So, the lady wanted me and XH's social security numbers and to set up an appointment to sign papers. I told her I'd call her back and I called my realtor. He called the buyer's realtor/father, he called both title companies and he called the bank. The bank told him they haven't called/sent anything. Very confusing.

More evidence that Xh may well have lost his mind - I called to ask him to bring the payment book for the association payments to the title signing. He said he thinks he threw it away!
I don't know the man anymore, neither does anyone else - which is sad and confusing. He suddenly doesn't have anything to do with the family. He doesn't return calls, he doesn't open mail or emails. He easily forgets things or looses things. He didn't want valuable items he left behind at the condo (shoes people, he left shoes (this is a funny item I said on an old old post)).

Things with BF, they are a bit in the air. We are both going back to our parents. BF really wants to move to FL. His brother wants him to move to FL. I personally would love FL for the mere fact of being closer to my dream of working with dolphins. BF has asked me if I would go to FL. I told him I don't know. I told him that there is a lot that would have to change for us to be together in the long run.

It was SOOO nice not working last night. My first Monday night off from Borders in I can't remember how long. Enjoying the last days in the condo.
Posted By: pammie Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/11/06 12:44 PM
TooManyWords
Sweetie you are so young to have so many worries.
I have 2 sons 29 and 31 and 2 daughter-n-laws that are 25.
They have never experienced the black cloud that you have in your life.
I guess because they lok at every day as a possitive and you seem to look at the world as a negative.
Everytime I read your thread, you have a new dream that you would like to follow.
Dreams are fine, but there comes a time for reality.
I am sure the BF wants you to move to Florida.
I mean who wouldn't want a girl to tag along and support him while he has fun in the sun.
Your stay at your SD is not forever.
Be thankful that the man is allowing you to stay with him until you get on your feet.
I think once the dead beat BF is out of your life you will see and improvement on who you are.
As for your X-H forgetting things and not caring.
That is what they do when they move on.
Leave the past in the past. Don't waste your time on what he is thinking or doing.
Girl I was married for 30 years.
Today I could care less what my X-H does or to whom as long as he leaves me alone.
Life is for living.
Take control and live a wonderful life.
You can do it.
Take Care
God Bless
Posted By: BarbieDoll Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/11/06 01:18 PM
AMEN PAM!!! I couldn't have said it better.

Barb
Posted By: qoe100 Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/11/06 01:19 PM
Pam, Barb, TMW
I was just about to say the same thing!!!!

(((TMW)))
Pam's right. I think once this is over, a cloud will be lifted. You're going to be OK.
Posted By: BarbieDoll Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/11/06 01:27 PM
I just recognize the black cloud that my ex spoke of all the time. I don't feel it in my life. Not even at the worst of time and everyone here will attest that I've had some extraordinarily bad times. I'm a "Half full" girl, not "half empty". LIfe is what you make it. Its ok to have dreams and goals - heck, we wouldn't make much progress without them but you have to plan some that are realistic for the here and now. You have the ability to make big stuff happen - its all within your power just the same as for the rest of us. I lost almost everything I had worked hard for when I was in my twenties and my son ended up in a coma for months on end. I nearly went bankrupt. But look at me now - I didn't let it ruin my life. I've made lemonade cause I had way too many lemons. I decided that I had a bumper crop so I might as well do something about it.

We all want what is best for you. We know how it is. We also know what it took to get out of the doldrums.

Barb
TMW,
It's natural to have mixed feelings selling the condo. On the one hand, you were wanting so badly to sell it, worried about it not selling fast enough... but when it actually happens then theres all the work of moving, and you are losing what was your home. I felt similar mixed feelings when I sold my house. I was releived to finalize it, since it was the last tie to my wasband. But, it was also the nicest house I've ever lived in/probably will ever live in. In the end, I just realized that I did not have the luxury of wallowing around. I had not chosen my divorce, but it happened, and I could not just sit there mourning it, I had to get on with my life. I figured whatever happened in the first year, was still at least partly about him... but after a year, it was only me that was responsible. I got stubborn, and decided he had the power to ruin our marriage, but I would NOT give him the power to ruin the rest of my life! I did not think so much of what I "wanted" to do, as I figured out what must be done, then did it. After a while, it was easier, and it built my confidence.

Moving in with your stepdad might not appeal to you, but you are lucky to have a safe and cheap place to land for a bit. Moving to Fl? To be closer to your dream of working with dolphins? Now girl, this is the 95th new dream.... and I'm not sure whether you have the credentials to make this happen but let me just point out that moving to Fla does not make working with dolphins any closer. Just as moving to Hollywood does not really make you any closer to being a movie star. Yes, if you live near the ocean you will be in geographical proximity to dolphins. Just like in Hollywood you would be close to movie stars. But it's important to be realistic. Realistically, moving to Fla will increase your costs of living and reduce your need for winter clothing. It will not actually do much for your dream of working with sea creatures. Realistically, you need to get your life and finances in order and acheive some stability before you decide which of your dreams you would like to pursue. Baby steps, before you run.

It's a continuum, first you do what MUST be done, to create some stability and security.

I'm glad you got a night off. Working more than one job is hard. Even when the work is not difficult, just having to be certain places at certain times, can wear on you when you don't have time for yourself. I have several businesses-- and somedays it just seems like I need a little time to myself. The phone rings, it could be a horse needing the vet, someone who needs an order sent today, for delivery tomorrow-- or someone who needs more product delivered, or someone who just wants to pick my brains. Sometimes I take a break and turn the phone off for a few hours, return all the calls later in the day. Just to get a few hours of uninterrupted time.

Hows the dog? One of my cats had surgery, and she is healing up well. And the good news was, it was just abnormal cells, not cancer. But, her bill was $508 so I had best get back to work! Her bills not so bad, but I also just had a foal born ($1000+) and have another one due next month.... so off to work I go~
I haven't read through my posts, but I don't think I have that many dreams.

To clarify:

Since I was little I've ALWAYS wanted to work with dolphins. In any way shape or form. I was going to work at the Sea World here in Ohio - until they sold out to Six Flags and took the dolphins away and then Six Flags sold out to Cedar Fair and they took out all the sea/water stuff.
Other things I'd like to do are photography, party/event/wedding planning, travel agent, counselor/non-profit work. These are things that I'm interested in and or would have a good fit based on experience and interest.

Going to Florida is something I've thought about doing since I was 9 years old and visited my great grandmother there. And they have had steady job growth for 2 years based on an article on careerbuilder.com. I have virtually nothing holding me to 1 particular place, so I can look anywhere. I look on job websites at Cincinatti, Indiana, Dallas, Florida, Michigan. Everywhere.

Going to Europe isn't just a dream, it's just not something I can afford at the moment.
OK, not 95 different dreams, but several different directions.

I lived and worked in Florida for a few years, and just looked up current statistics. "Steady job growth" is relative to where you start.... and in Florida's case, perhaps its gotten less worse, rather than better? Unemployment shows up at only 5.6% (putting it about smack in the middle for the entire country). However, because of the demographics, it's a little misleading. Only about 55% of adults over 18 years of age are employed. This is because of the high representation from retired persons. This means that a disproportionate amount of the available jobs are somewhat service related. Retail, food service, medical, etc. And, then there is the tourist destination factor, which gives a double whammy in terms of the jobs being disproportionately service related.

When I lived there, the unemployment rate was about the same....and it seemed to show up more than you'd think in crime. Depending on the area of Florida, there is now the hurricane devastation to consider. The Gulf coast was hurt by this, and lots of places have not yet come back. I'd check pretty carefully and have a job in hand, personally. Unless I had a 6-9 months of expense money in hand when I headed South....

But I stand corrected, it is no where near 95 seperate and distinct dreams. It is, however, several different directions, and sometimes it's easier to make one come true if you can get focused on the "one". I dreamed of going to Tahiti since I was young, but have never done anything to make it happen... so it's not really a serious dream. Instead, I focused on my career, some educational goals. Now I am focused on my horse breeding and showing; and have a couple sidelines to bring in the money to make that possible. The other "dreams" are really random musings, that maybe one day will come off the shelf and become a real goal. Somewhere I read that a goal is a dream with a deadline. That makes sense. You can have a bunch of dreams. But only once you put some thought and deadlines and a realistic plan together does it become a goal. Once you get serious and pick one of those dreams, and make it a goal, you can apply your energy and talent to it, and making it happen is just incredible! That's what I want for you-- a goal you've acheived, rather than a bunch of dreams and "if onlys".



I personally think it's great to have dreams that can realistically come true.
I don't have major goals - I have small ones, like paying off my debts. Getting a place of my own. Saving money for Europe & emergencies.

I've always been a person going in a million different directions. High school I was involved in Band (marching and concert), Choir, Show Choir, Drama, cheerleading, pep club, newspaper, yearbook, prom committee, DARE role model, Teen Institute, Student Counsil, Spanish Club, YMCA camp counselor.

Oddly I only changed my major once or twice in college. I thought about teaching and journalism and ended up in psychology and sociology/criminology.


The area where BF's brother and cousin are currently is right outside of Orlando. That is where he wants to live at least to start.

The jobs I have been looking at have been in the northern part of Florida and a bit central. Not too close to either coast.
Posted By: Underdog Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/11/06 07:44 PM
TMW,

I've never posted to you, and I'm just hoping to goodness that you can see my intent through a post that I'm going to find difficult to write. I have been reading your thread for quite some time, though I do admit that I haven't been on in several weeks and had to catch up here today... I don't know why, because your thread has always made me sad.

Not because of what has happened to you, but because of the poor choices you seem to make that keep you stuck in a sea of negativity and one where you don glasses that allow you to see yourself as someone unworthy of more in life.

Dreams are no different than wishes, dear. They are wish lists for losers as long as there is no action that turn them into goals. So what are you going to do about turning ONE of these into goals?

You call them different directions, but I see a very lonely woman who is desperately throwing herself out there hoping someone else will find value in her... and throwing opportunities her way. The problem with this approach is twofold: 1) There are way too many opportunities for distractions; and 2) They don't represent your passion.

Um, what passion? Let's talk about that for a moment.

TMW, let's talk about this dream of working with dolphins. I have a few marine biologists in my family, so I can understand this desire. My own D12 has always had the same dream. The difference between you and her is that she's already researched the universities that offer degrees and career paths to marine biologists (in addition to those who will also offer her volleyball scholarships), and she also is VERY aware that it will require an advanced degree or doctorate to get the dream job she wants. Know that to become a trainer, the requirements are equally as competitive and stiff. So my dear, if you really want to turn this dream into a goal, you're going to have to identify the steps you need to take to get you there. This is going to require a drastic change in how you think and see yourself.

If you were my daughter--and you're young enough to be mine--I would offer you a hug and some really hard nudges. Barbie, 2ndchances, qoe and the rest of the moms here have been saying to you all along that you deserve better--and I haven't had to post to you because they've all said what I'd be saying.

So why is it that you refuse to see yourself in that light? I see only one big glaring problem here TMW. You act and think in a fashion that keeps you stuck and unhappy. You choose the path of least resistance... and not because I think you want that path. But you feel you don't deserve better.

You're moving on from a D that you didn't want. Heck, that alone makes me sad for you because I know what that looks like. But for 99% of us here (and 100% of the women who have posted to you and this now includes me), it's like being given a second chance to do things better. I can finally list at least 10 things that make me extremely grateful I'm exactly where I am. No, I'm not in a post-D R, so please know that I am not rosy because I have a guy in my life.

I'm choosing not to, TMW. For the first time in my single life (and I'm 44), I feel free to do the things I want without consulting anyone. I'm able to make good decisions for myself and KNOW that they will bear fruit... if not immediately, then down the road. I'm a whole lot more patient than I was at 24. And that's just stuff I learned because I've been on the planet longer than you have. You'll get there too.

HOWEVER, I can't ever remember thinking the depressing thoughts you did. I may not have wanted to believe good stuff about me, but I always had a career direction. Even when I derailed my train to med school, I took the downtime necessary to rethink where I wanted to be. And then I made it happen.

What bothers me the most about your half-empty approach is that you seem to be living your life by default. By just waiting to see what others do or offer you before you act. I'd love to ask why you would choose something so desolate and demeaning, but I honestly don't think you can see your sitch from that POV. That's why I'm pointing it out to you now.

You're a young woman, and from all accounts here, you have so much potential and opportunity to achieve something for yourself. The big question is, will you leave these leeching attachments behind so you can see yourself as a half-full person with gifts and talents just waiting to emerge if given half a chance?

STOP SETTING YOURSELF UP FOR FAILURE AND DISAPPOINTMENT! You're allowing that infernal loser BF to drag you down and keep you there. He's not adding to your life, TMW. Every single post that you've made (ever since I can remember) has identified some misgiving you have about this person. Get rid of him! He's not allowing you to be the best you that you can be. So clean house.

If you were my daughter, I'd sit down with you and literally force you to list 3 things that you want from life--without considering all the reasons why you might not be able to have them. (That's such a fatalistic approach!) Then we'd go over what steps are necessary to reach those goals. Note I did not say dreams. I said goals. Goals are wishes/dreams with action tied to them.

I'd ask you to research what it will take to achieve those goals and we'd break the actions into digestible chunks.

For example, if paying down debt is high on your list, what are the things you can do to help reach that goal AND stay realistic? That is, don't eliminate your goals or delay them because you have a pickle that you need to work through. Find a way to do both. And I can promise you that when you start making progress on them, you're going to feel a whole lot better about yourself.

I'd also ask you to find a female mentor. Someone who can help you stay accountable to your list and to help you rework goals that change.

Have you ever heard of Cheryl Richardson? She has a website, and she has a button to link you to local groups of women who can do just this. Find one! Find a group of supportive women who can be your true friend... to help you rework your confidence and esteem issues and help you turn your life around.

Quit allowing other people to tell you how you should live.

BTW, I have to agree with 2ndchances about your admonishment at work a few weeks ago. Pay attention to her post, because as a female executive (I'm #2 in my company), she's dead on. Use this knowledge and put it to work for you, TMW. This woman may be all the bad you say and more, but as an outsider, I'm here to say that she's your gift with a silver lining.

Her message is this: It's obvious that this isn't your passion and it's time to start thinking about who and what you want to be when you grow up.

So... what do you think? Do you want to stay here and posting all your troubles and never changing your story? Or do you want to use your support here as a spring board and coaching opportunity to find good in this life?

If you choose the former, I'm going to be very disappointed. I don't even know you, and I feel a well of compassion for you because you don't seem to see all this icky stuff as the wake up call you need to go somewhere in life. You DO deserve more, TMW. But in order to get more, you have to believe it.

What do you think?

Betsey
Posted By: qoe100 Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/11/06 08:03 PM
Betsy,
That was a wonderful post. Thank you!!!!

TMW, most of us that post to you are old enough to be your mom. Listen to your mom's!!!! Sweetie, I wish I could go back to the age of 24 and rework some areas of my life. You get that chance. Make the most of it.
Well obviously many people who read this post don't know the real me.

Don't feel sorry for me.

I have not encountered 1 person on this board or anywhere for that matter who is even around my age and has gone through what I have. On a second note, I have not encountered 1 person on this board or anywhere that it happened so fast too.

I admit that when I got married, I felt that everything about it was right. I was his wife. I put him before me. That was wrong. My identity was, largely, being his wife.

Now, in 7 months time I think I am a much stronger person who is trying hard to figure things out in life. I don't have anyone in my life who has ever taught me to set goals or anything of the sort.
I sent myself to Europe in High School, I got a job, I joined activities, I saved my money. I put myself through college. I got my own first car. I put myself in the Army.
Xh and I took ourselves to Hawaii and got married and we bought a house without any help, support or advice.

He has been in my life since I was 17. He was always my bouncing board for ideas and thoughts and everything.

So don't feel sorry for me because I've had a dark cloud following me around, or because I don't have direction or for any other reason.

I came here to being with to try to save my marriage. Then I started to get a life. Not the choice that I thought I would have made or anyone in my life thought I would have made.
I continued coming here for support and because this became an outlet for me.

I acknowledge that BF may not be the best thing in my life - but he is someone who loves me and supports me. Yes, he drains me of energy and money. Yes he needs to get a job. Yes, he has had some hard times of life that he is trying to turn around.

Think whatever you want.
Posted By: Underdog Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/11/06 08:30 PM
Ah TMW, you're pissed off. Good. That means my post hit a nerve with you.

No, I don't know you. I never claimed to make that remark either. But I've read enough in your journaling to see someone who needs mentoring and assistance in becoming the woman she desperately wants to be.

You're right... I don't know anyone as young as you are who has been dealt such a difficult hand of cards. Honestly, friend, I admire your willingness to muddle through stuff. And I mean that. But I want you to stop seeing this as a reason to not dream big AND achieve things from life.

So as Qoe so eloquently said, I'd give anything to have had the opportunity to learn and master the stuff at your age but that I had to do the hard way and learn after 40. I have kids and encumbrances who were hurt by the choices their dad made... and there's nothing I can do about it.

Hey, and let me tell you this... I don't EVER feel sorry for anyone, TMW. That's pity. I'll let Barbie chime in here, because we both know what it's like to be on the receiving end of pity... because we both have disabled children. TMW, my disabled daughter was single handedly the biggest wake up call I ever received, and she is my biggest blessing and grace from God. I'm living the life I want and love because she taught me how to do it just by being her.

Compassion is different than pity. And I never said I pity you. I said I can honestly see that you don't have the type of belief system to support your endeavors. These wonderful group of moms have been trying to tell you as much over the past 6 months. Ride their coattails. See the advice as good and something to consider, if not follow. Examine your options. Be open minded. And most of all, be fair to yourself.

Let's be brutally honest about that BF, TMW. If you can list a minimum of 10 ways that he's encouraging you to dream big and have the life you want for yourself, I'll back off and let the rest of the gang hammer this into your head. Otherwise, I'm going to have to agree.

What part of your R is bringing out the very best in you?

I'm not talking about judging you for those choices. Hell, girl, I've made some awful choices in men. It's why I'm choosing to float for awhile. Let's face it: the available pool of men who don't come with hideous baggage is far greater in your age group than mine. I honestly need time to consider how crappy their baggage really is. I may be a slow learner, but I'm not stupid.

I work at not being judgmental, TMW. Please know you have a friend in your corner. Friends in your corner. See the silver lining in your "black cloud". Embrace it. If you were my D12, I'd just keep hammering to you what I spew to her on a daily basis: Life is about choices.

You don't have a black cloud following you, friend. You've just donned dark glasses to support that belief system--and that is a choice. I see sunny clear skies over you.

Your past isn't wrong. It is what it is. You can do everything your heart desires if you take the steps necessary to get there. You've got mentoring support here. And even if your goal is no longer to save your M, it doesn't matter. You've got a lot of life ahead of you, TMW. Put all this knowledge and understanding to work for you.

Fill your life with people who want to see you succeed and achieve fulfillment.

So I'm glad you're a little annoyed with me. I know you're listening. And that's something all us mom's know from experience.

Take care. AND BE NICE TO YOURSELF!

Betsey
Posted By: HappyToday Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/11/06 10:08 PM
Well TMW, I guess it's my turn. I too am old enough to be your mom. I stopped posting to you because it appeared to me that you didn't want to change. Yet everything is working out for you really to do just that. It's totally up to you.

Believe me, I was once just like you. I thought I could figure everything out by myself. I thought I had lived so much at such a young age that nobody had anything on me. But in reality TMW, I knew very little. I still don't know everything and I never will. But I do know more now than I did 20 years ago, or even 5 for that matter. Hell, let's make that 2!

I'm from Youngstown, so I know what kind of girls we breed in northeast Ohio. I have myself, my sisters, cousins, neices to look to for that answer. We tend to get 'er done. We're self-starting, dependable girls. I've had no problem climbing the ladder and I live in the south where the good ole boy mindset usually rules. TMW, the good ole boys call me for answers. Cause I'm a product of a catholic-schooled, northeast Ohio mindset - so I know exactly where you are coming from. I also know that you can do whatever you wish if YOU do something about it. We can't depend on others to do it for us.

You have so much going for you. The path you choose to take now can be the most important thing you do in your life. THAT is why we are all posting to you now. We know.

As far as others living what you've lived, believe me, others have - and more. I have. I've been D'd twice. I was very young the first time. The 2nd time threw me for a loop. One thing you know nothing about is being threatened with someone trying to take your kids away. I have to say that you should count your lucky stars that you don't have babies on your hips to take care of. Most people in your position do, and believe me that will change a dream into a nightmare real fast. Lots of people have been through lots of bad things. Think about having a sick or disabled child to take care of. You're healthy TMW - some people are not. You have much, much, in your favor.

Some people go on forever blaming. Some change their circumstances. How you choose to respond to that makes what happens in your life - good or bad.

The way I see it you have two choices:

You can keep on the track you're on and follow BF down to Florida knowing that you supported him in Cleveland. You can continue to wonder why everything doesn't turn out the way you wish and keep wondering what's in other people's heads. You can continue to try to make your happiness through other people, stay at jobs you don't love, stay in debt, and tread water forever. You'd be surprised to find how time does really fly and ten years will be gone. You can turn into your mother.

OR - you can make a plan to change. You can say adios to BF and let him grow up or not. That is his choice to make. You can move in with your stepdad, pay everything you make down on your debt, get out of it, and then the world can be your oyster. Without that debt, you will be freed from having to work where you don't want to and your dream can actually be something you can achieve. But please, take one dream at a time. Dream to get out of debt and you can. Dream to work with dolphins, and as long as that is something more important than anything else, you may. But I will caution you here - I have a firend who is a marine biologist and can't find a job. He now makes custom furniture. Go figure.

Nothing worth having is achieved without some pain TMW. I went back to night school with two babies at home. I don't know how I did it, but I knew I had to in order to achieve my goal. I had a full-time job and an H who golfed all weekend. I slept 5 hours a night and weighed 105 pounds. At 5'6" - that was skinny. But I had a goal and I did it. Thank God. Because now I'm self-supporting.

In the end, we have to happy with ourselves before we can ever be happy with someone else. Dreams are good, as long as they're achievable. Anything is achievable as long as we're willing to sacrifice to get there. Take one at a time. It's all up to you.

Please listen to these women TMW. They have your best interests at heart. It's so easy to get angry and discount whatever they say. It's harder to really listen and take something away from it. The reason we post to you is we do understand. We were once you.

TMW, me and my boys will be in Cleveland one day during the 3rd week of June to see the Indians play a game. I would love to meet you and have a talk if I can.
Posted By: qoe100 Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/11/06 10:16 PM
TMW,
Your list of accomplishments at your age is very impressive. You should be proud of your strenth, intelligence and perseverence to have done all of this.

However, your BF "is" dragging you down. First of all, I've noticed that whenever something goes wrong in his life, it's always someone else's fault. You've proven that you have the drive and ambition to get things done in the past, but that drive seems to be absent now.

You say BF loves you, but if that's the case, why is he even "thinking" of moving to FL without you? You say he supports you. In what way? Not only have you financially supported him, but you've mothered him to within an inch of his life. For crying out loud, he can't even remember "important" conversations he's had with you!!!

I've seen pics of you and you are gorgeous. You could have most anyone you want. Choose someone that deserves you. Not only make a list of what you want/need to accomplish, but what you want/need in a man. How many of those items would BF fulfill????

I think the reason we're all so frustrated is that you never (except for the above post) say anything positive about BF. You've complained constantly about him for numerous reasons. So.....we're all at a loss as to why you can't cut him out of your life. What would you really lose, except the constant aggravation of his inadequacy?

TMW, you are capable of wonderful things, but you are taking on the attitude of BF. As Betsy said, you wait for things to happen, rather than making them happen. You have no power over your own life.

I'm so sorry if this sounds harsh and maybe it's too much to expect from someone so young to "get it", but I do hope you know that we really are trying to help you out of this indecisive, pity party, blaming others, mode you're in.

Think of selling the condo as a wonderful beginning to get out of debt and do magical things with your life from now.
Posted By: whitelight Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/12/06 06:41 AM
TMW,

Your strength shows through in your post. You stand up amazingly well to opposition.

THat's amazing the things that you've accomplished for yourself.

A black cloud, 7 months out of what just happened to you is not weird to me at all.

Actually, I didn't really think you had a black cloud hanging around.

The fact that you are going through such hard times at such a young age is a good thing, because you can figure all this stuff out now and build a solid foundation for the rest of your life.

Other people your age may not have a "black cloud," but everyone goes through their hard time, they may have their's later, unfortunately when they have children already etc.

Or maybe they will never go through a big crisis, but then they will be old and still naive, not tasting all the flavors of life.

Oprah said your 20's are for figuring out what you want to do.

I think your job sucks, living with your step dad would be depressing. I think your BF is not good for you, you have a bit of debt, Your ex-husband has gone temporarily insane.

Soooo...in response to all this and in addition to your interest in dolphins, I want to tell you that when I was in Hawaii, there were many many young people employed by these tour boats that would go out specifically looking for dolphins and/or taking people snorkeling!!!!

How about it? Forget FL, who needs it? Hawaii it is. You can store your stuff at your step dads and go off to Hawaii. Work on the boats for 6 months, save some dough, chill, have some fun with some other young people and figure out what you want to do next.

THis is not an intangible dream. Your ex is going to have to take care of the dog. Period.
Posted By: whitelight Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/12/06 06:43 AM
Please cast your vote here for TMW going to Hawaii working on the tourist dolphin search boats.
Posted By: Aprilsm4 Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/12/06 10:43 AM
I vote Hawaii.
Not trying to be negative or anything - but I get motion/sea sickness, bad.
That's why I thought about Florida, because there is Sea World and so many other tourist/attraction places with dolphins - I could start in administration and work my way around
Posted By: Aprilsm4 Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/12/06 12:13 PM
I vote for Hawaii anyway! Maybe find some resort work? Oh, or Vegas!

The sky's the limit. You really can go anywhere you want to go.
Posted By: BarbieDoll Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/12/06 12:33 PM
I think this thread is turning into a circus and my vote is really unimportant. Again - another suggestion, another roadblock - it goes on and on. I have wracked my brains trying to come up with ways to help you, TMW, but I don't seem to be making a difference. I have even mentioned your situation to my kids (2 are around your age) because I truly wanted to help.

Underdog wrote some great stuff and yes - she and I have raised disabled kids and there's nothing like that for bringing one back down to Earth. I hate hearing how bad it all is for you cause we all have bad, every one of us. I truly believe that everyone has stuff to deal with regardless of age.

Anyway, that's all I want to say today. I hate things that drain energy from us. I see so many things doing that to you and right now I feel that I'm draining myself in writing since it is unproductive. We'll see what happens in time. I want to hear about your positive changes, not pipe dreams.

Barb
Just wanted you all to know that things are getting through.
I tried to think of ways that BF has added to my life, encouraged me, helped me towards...anything - I couldn't. I couldn't think of many reasons why I love him or he loves me.

I've been crying since about 10 pm last night
Posted By: BarbieDoll Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/12/06 01:13 PM
TMW: I know it hurts, but when you can admit this to yourself, you get REAL with yourself. The tears are healing. If you take some action now - it will be the best thing you ever did for yourself.

Barb
Posted By: qoe100 Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/12/06 01:49 PM
(((TMW)))
Listen to Barb. What you're going through is the beginning of some good changes you need to make to get on with your life.
As much as I love Hawaii, I cannot vote that TMW moves there. I have lived there twice, most recently two years ago. Yes, there are tour boats-- and there is an ocean part. The jobs are not easy to come by (you have to know people) and the pay is low-- especially in comparison to the cost of living. A very very tiny/modest apartment would be at least $600, and that would not be in a very safe neighborhood. The cost of paradise is high. And they are cracking down on those who just live on the beach.

Now, this information about seasickness does put a major cramp in the reasonability of citing working with dolphins, as a dream. Honestly, dolphins live in the ocean. A wealthy tourist may be able to arrange to have dolphins herded up and brought to shore, but if seasickness is an issue, then working with dolphins is not realistic and should be taken off the "dream" list, and certainly should be ruled out as a reason to move somewhere.

TMW, divorce sucks. Most major life changes do. They are a call to grow up, and do what must be done. It's time for you to put on your big girl panties and deal with it. Time to take stock of where you are (not good), and where you want to be-- then chart a course from how to get from where you are, to where you want to be. Identifying a series of realistic, do-able steps-- then doing them. Whether they are fun or not, whether they are glamorous or not. That's what is required.

There is no prince charming to come save you. Each of us is responsible for saving ourselves. You've been offered some good advice here, but ultimately it is up to you to create what you want out of your life. It's your life, your choice. You can be a victem, with problems and reasons why things are not as you wish they were. Or you can "put on your big girls panties" and deal with your current situation, buckling down and making real and sustained changes in your life.

Your move, sweetie.
Posted By: Aprilsm4 Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/12/06 02:53 PM
Let me just say that I don't really think she should move to Hawaii. However, her life is pretty open at the moment. She has the opportunity to reinvent herself, if she chooses to do so. For me, Hawaii is just a metaphor for starting her life in a new and exciting way. There are tons of options for her. I'm sure it's both exciting and scary.

Bottom line is this. It's time to decide the type of person she wants to be. Will she be proactive and take life by the horns and make it into something wonderful? Or, will she stand off to the side just watching the action?
Posted By: qoe100 Re: Chapter 21 - Condo to close next week - 04/12/06 02:58 PM
TMW,
You sure do have a lot of "moms", don't you. Be glad they're not like mine.

If you give us a realistic list of what you'd like to do, I think there's a lot of people here that can help you put it into effect.

Don't forget, we're sticking our noses in, because we care and because you have so much potential.
I think my SD is getting a little freaked by all the stuff I'm bringing back into the house. I've aquired many books - plus all the stuff I had from Christmas. Plus a desk and an entertainment center and other misc. items/gifts/etc.

More drama with the title company. About this re-issue rate. The person working on the paperwork being a bit rude - to a point I spoke with her manager. Who let it slip that the bank didn't want to choose a title company and just went with the title company their customer wanted. The manager also slipped and said something to the notion of giving discounted fees to long term customers (aka the buyer's father/realtor). But the manager is going to see what he can do about our fees.

More drama/evidence that XH has lost his mind.
For a month I've been telling him that on or around the 10th he'd have to call the utilities to have them turned off Friday/switched to the buyer's name.
He calls me today and says he's been really busy and HASN'T DONE IT!!! He hasn't had time to make, what, 3 phone calls. So he did it - and surprise surprise, the gas can't be shut off/changed until after the holiday weekend, the 18th. And he didn't have the name of the buyer so he couldn't change the water and sewer. And he told the electric company tomorrow, Thursday instead of Friday.

I am going to have to seriously bite my tongue tomorrow to not ask what drugs he is taking, or who the heck is brain washing him.
For him to be too busy to call to cancel/change utilities?!?!? Oh, and he lost the info on the location of the title company. WTF?!?!? This is really really important information.

I pray that God helps him through whatever is going on.
Today is the day. at 1:00 pm EST XH and I will go and sign the papers to finalize the sale of the place that was once a home.
Mixed feelings. Happy it sold and to have some profit to pay off bills. Sad that the 1st home/house I ever owned is gone.
TMW: Good luck and remember - "Today is the first day of the rest of your life". Fresh start, new beginning.

If it were me - I'd go to the lawyer at a different time than my ex - no point in adding stress or having an alien encounter. The actual signing is really no big deal. Just my thoughts. I hope it all goes well for you.

Barb
Thanks Barb.

We are just going to the title company. They asked that we go together for time sake and we agreed that we would just go together to get it done faster.

Then I go back to the condo and finish packing up and then clean and go to SD's.
You did a sad face. Today is the first day of the rest of your life, remember. Do a happy dance. Turn your frown upside down. I really suggest strongly that you start looking on the bright side, not the dark. Today you get the funds for the condo that you've been dying to sell for a long time. This is wonderful. Today you are going to pay off debt. Today is your first step towards financial freedom.

Girl, if I were you I'd be singing "Oh no not I, I will survive". GLoria Gaynor has my theme song - why don't you try it too.

Barb
Question to put out there for people that have sold property before - will we get a check today? Will the deposit it into our checking account??

I know we are going in to sign about a million papers (they told us it would take about 45 minutes).

I had a dream last night that XH offered me his half, for everything that has happened and to pay off more bills. It was like winning the lottery. Then I woke up.

It's just a lot of mixed feelings going on right now. (better?)
Realtor answered my question - they will ask us today how we want the money - wired, pick up a check, mail a check, direct deposit.
Then they have up to 72 hours to transfer.
I hope it is faster than that.
Yes, realtor is correct. They have 72 hours to get you the money. Check it out with your bank, to find out which way enables you to access the money fastest. (ie with some alternatives, they can put a "hold" on the funds, like with an out of state check)

It is not too late to change your mind, and go at seperate times. Who cares if it is "more convenient" for them??? They are getting paid a good fee to handle this, and it is YOUR option, not theirs. I did my closing seperately, in fact in a different city. It is done all the time. I would rather eat raw liver than have sat in a room with the alien feeling like we had to make small talk.

I'll just leave it be. The appointment is in an hour and a half. XH will have to leave his place soon to get there on time (lol).
I think he'll be more unconformtable than me.
Now that I know what a lying cheating &*(^^$^&(P#&@$%*()!%^$#*()#!*()()$&*(!%^%^~!*()#*%^@#()*!^&&*^)*(&*$(&^ he is
Good luck today
I made a double post...oops.
Hope you're doing okay!
Good Morning TMW,

How did the closing go?

Hope you feel a bit better now that it is finished. I understand very much how you felt over the sale of your home. I knew when D and I sold ours it would be a wrench and even though he took it away from me, I still expect to feel a wrench when it is sold. Hopefully not as much now that the shelties and I have our own home.

Hope you are having a wonderful day. The sun is shining here and it is going to be 82 degrees!
TMW,

Go out with those people from Borders. How are you?
Everything went alright. I got to the title company first. I waited in the parking lot and started freaking out because XH wasn't answering his phone and hadn't shown up. As I walked in the back door, he walked in the front.

The title company is old school and they don't do wire or direct deposit transfers - so I'm waiting for the check. XH and I agreed to still wait to get his name off the checking account until all the transfers are done. It makes it much easier.

Friday I called off work, still had stuff to pack and I knew my lunch wasn't enough time. So we left the condo about 1pm. at 1:15 I got the call that it was official and to leave the keys.
I unpacked my car, BF unpacked his car and his mom gave us money to go get something to eat. Then we went to our respective houses to unpack. Then later we went out to eat for dinner.

Saturday BF said he was going to take me for a surprise (which I found out and had figured out that it was to go to this place in PA to see millions of carp). But the water was too cold. So we went for hot dogs (there is a place in Amherst called Hot Dog Haven - the BEST hot dogs in the world!). Then we went to a flea market. That night we went out to his grandma's trailor for a camp fire.

Sunday we went to my Mom's 1st. For the first time EVER - she gave me my basket and I gave her hers and I gave her fiancee his - but she didn't make ANY food. My mom ALWAYS LOVES making food for holidays. But for this Easter, nothing. I was shocked.
We left there after a while and went to my dad's and we followed him to my grandpa's. Then we went to BF's - his mom made a nice big easter dinner.
I had the dog with me all day.
BF's dad - who is usually pretty quiet, when I was leaving he said to come over ANY time and that I could bring the dog. It was cute, cause everyone thought he wouldn't like my dog.

Stepdad was in a mood when he came home yesterday. I heard him talking to someone on the phone and it seems that there was some argument at his mom's.

I got my room in some little order.

I work at Borders tonight, so I left the house at 8am and I won't be home until about 11:30pm.
I've pretty much decided that I'm going to ask borders to drop me back to being contingent - as needed.

Spring/summer is the busy season here at my full time job and more opportunity for over time. Plus my SD doesn't have a "normal" schedule to be able to always go and let the dog out, and he gets upset if the dog goes potty in the house. Not to mention that I have so much to go through and organize - plus the nice weather has started.

SD made me a little worried last night. He stopped by my room and asked if I'm going to be ok at his house.
He keeps talking about all the work and improvements he wants to do, it makes me feel that all my stuff is just in the way.

I have enough stuff to fill an entire house, which is the problem.


BF's brother came back from FL. He is looking for a job in computers - he got 1 call and the job would start in about 2 weeks and it wasn't guranteed. But he wants to go back.

I think my mom is started to sort of regret some decisions she has made. Last night she told me her holiday sucked, big time.
Her finacee puts her down in front of other people; he and his kids don't really get into holidays much.
She has admitted that even though he has money and can offer that security - that she has to ask for affection and attention. He never goes to her back room. He goes to bed at 6 or 7pm and he gets up around midnight to get ready to go to work.
Quote:

Her finacee puts her down in front of other people;




I guess we see what his wife had to deal with. Maybe your mom will change her mind about the wedding.

Good job moving home, it might be tough at first, give stepdad some patience...it'll all work out.

TMW,
Glad to hear you've gotten moved and all.

It seems your mom has made the choice to put up with her fiancee's bad behavior. Hopefully, she'll "get it" and not end up married to him.

I really hope things are looking up for you.
Things are getting there.

Last night I left a note for the boss man at Borders explaining that summer is the busy time at my full time job, therefore more opportunity for overtime - so I will drop down to being more "on call" for now.
I have so many boxes to go through and organization.

I am so tired. Working till 11, then a 20 minute drive home. Then I have to spend time with the dog and shower and relax before I can go to sleep.

Talked to BF's mom last night. I told her her son needs to open up and talk about things. She said she knows, he's just down about having to fix the truck and having no job. I told her the problem is he doesn't do anything to change it. She just said hopefully he will.
She offered to watch my dog when needed.


Oh, I'm finding I can use DB techniques on the R with BF much better by not living together. I don't call him, I wait for him to call me - let him wonder. GAL (not a bunch since we only moved out of the condo Friday, but you know what I mean).
Hi TMW!

Glad you are settled. Now you can put it all behind you. You will feel great in the coming weeks!

20 min is not much of a commute - many people live much further away. And aren't you glad you come home to a dog and not kids. Many people work 2 jobs and come home to have to be perky and take care of twins! Stop whining. That's nice that your BF's mom will help with the dog, though.

As for BF - why bother DBing him? Is her really worth it? I think he'd have to make all the effort and prove himself. I wouldn't waste another ounce of energy on him.

And I would keep my job at Borders to continue paying down that debt - at least until my scheduled SHOWED that I would have overtime hours coming. You thought you might even lose that job. Make sure you have something to hold on to - don't throw it all away.

Good stuff about moving to Step Dad's though. I think his stopping by your room to make sure you were comfortable was a thoughtful gesture. Not sure why you took it otherwise.

Remember, TMW - the way to enjoy life is to stop seeing the glass as half empty. Today is the first day of the rest of your life. Make today count. And be happy.

Barb
Hi TMW. I hate to see you give up your hours at Borders, on the possibility of overtime at the other job. (especially til you get your review, and feel secure in that job). Maybe you should hang on to the hours at Borders until overtime actually materializes?

Sounds like an interesting talk with BF's mother. Her attitude about the changes he needs to make as an adult... well it seems so "whatever"? It supports what you have said, about her being part of the problem. She seems to just make excuses for him. How sad.

I can see where DB type things would be much easier now that you live apart. This will force him to either share the work of the relationship-- or make it clear that he is not doing so. Either way, you are in a great position to get your own life, chart your own course.

I know what you mean about needing to wind down. I actually use my drive time for that. My commute is a bit longer than yours, and I often use it to chat on the phone with family or friends-- sort of making good use of the time. Or I can crank up the music and just enjoy it. When I get home, the cats want some attention though. Even if I get home at 2-3 am, I can't really go right to bed/sleep. They want some lap time, some petting, some interaction. Otherwise they will keep me up during the night to get thier attention.

Yesterday it was 100 degrees here, record setting. My AC was struggling to keep the house comfortable, and I spent quite a bit of time out during the heat of the day, hosing down the horses and making sure they did not get overheated. They still have not totally shed out to summer coats, this kind of heat is not something they are used to this early in the year.

Does your SD have a garage? Maybe you can sort through your things, unpack what makes sense, and put the rest in storage in the garage?
With Borders - it isn't just the possibility of overtime at the full time job.
It's the hours (I can't tell you how tired I am from working till 11 last night). After letting the dog out and playing with him, and taking a shower and talking to SD - I didn't get to bed until around 1.
And the dog woke me up around 5 all excited and wanting to play since he had to sleep so much yesterday.

But, cutting back at Borders to being on call or just 1 weeknight and maybe 1 weekend day - I can organize boxes a bit at a time. I can relax a bit.

Yes, BF's mom's attitude is very much - whatever.
She plays into it. She gives her son's money to go out and do things - instead of forcing them to get jobs or even pay them for work around the house.

I'm not really needing to put forth effort to DB. Not really thinking about it. I'm so "busy" relaxing and organizing, I don't really think about it.

100 degrees? WOW. I'm just happy when it is around 60 here in the Cleveland area.

SD does have a garage - problem is he has it PACKED with stuff. I'm not even making it sound worse than it is. There is 1 pathway on the right side inside the garage and it gets you down 1 side and in part of the back of the garage.

But he wants to clean it out and get rid of a lot.
I want to have a garage sale, he doesn't want to deal with the hassle and headaches. (which makes me glad, because if he wanted to have one, his mom would get involved and that's a whole nother story) But since BF and his brother are cleaning out their garage and they seem to be in elimination mode, as is their mom - I told them I will be having a garage sale if they want to have stuff in it.

Have to wait for nicer weather, less chances of rain.
Your SD sounds like my mom-- WAY too much stuff. I went to take care of her after her stroke, and was cleaning out stuff like a mad woman. She agreed we could have a yard sale. I did get rid of a good bit-- but also caught her sneaking things back into the house. She thought I was selling the stuff too cheap.

The good part is, she promises not to die til her house and papers are in order, so that I won't have to deal with the mess. This makes me think I'll have her around for a long long time

If you can pay down your debt without working as many nights at Borders, then maybe reducing your hours there will work out. I just know that the BEST thing you can accomplish while living with SD is to stablize yourself financially, and cutting back on your income is counterproductive to that goal. Maybe an arrangement where you work 3 nights, have four off? Even better, make sure that there is one weekend day that you are always 100% off from both jobs.

Speaking of needing to work and earn money, I'd better get off to do some of that!
He still has a lot of stuff from when him and my mom were together and from the old house and the move (they just bought this house July 2004).

Instead of weeding out before they moved or while they packed or while they moved in - they just moved everything & figured they'd go through it later.

I can pay down my debt and not be so tired or stressed. I won't pay it down as fast.
But at the same time, I'm always looking for other jobs - so if I get another job that pays more it could balance out.

My "normal" schedule at Borders has been 3 nights. Monday 6-11, Wednesday 6-11 and Saturday 3-11. 16 hours (they make me take 1/2 hour on Mon & Wed & make me take 1 hour on Sat).
But I used to live so close that I could run home between the full time job and the part time job. Now I don't - so I go straight from 1 to the other and get home really late.
Matter of fact..getting...sleepppppppppppppppppppppp
Hey there, hope your doing well. How's the pup adjusting to his new home?
I'm just sleepy.

Elvis is adjusting, he likes sleeping in a big bed
Forgot - I got the big check yesterday, already.
Had to sign the "final" settlement statement.
The 1 big mortgage is paid off. Waiting for the overpayment and escrow check to come in.
Waiting for the 2nd mortgage to get paid off. Then will wait for the overpayment on that.
Also waiting for the transfer from XH for the for sale by owner costs I accrued.

Then it will be done and he will come into town again and get his name off the checking account.

I will be paying off 3 bills when all is said and done. Then I will be juggling balances around for lower interest rates to pay off the bills as fast as possible. In a few months I might call and try to get a consolidation loan so it's all 1 payment and the debt can get paid off in a set time.
Good job,TMW. It's all "up" from here!!!!
Isn't it fun to get big check???

I'm sure you know this, but check all your cards to see what the interest rate is that you are paying... and pay off the highest interest card(s) first! Interest sucks!

I can't pay off the highest - but I've been debating if I should make a large payment to the highest or pay a little on all or payoff the ones I can.
Which I might just choose the later - payoff the 3 that I can and then focus on paying off the other 3. I have 2 "store" credit cards & 1 "regular" card I can payoff - leaving 3 "regular" credit cards to pay. Of the those 3, there would be 2 with what I would say moderate balances and 1 with a balance that equals the other 2 combined.
Paying $200 or so to each card every month, the smaller 2 would get paid off fairly quickly. Then I could transfer what was left on the larger one to one of the smaller ones or split it between the 2 and get that debt paid off.

Might sound complicated, but it's not too bad. I might be able to get this paid off in less than 12 months.

Or maybe make large payments on the 1 with the lowest apr, minimum payments on the other 2 and as the 1 with the lowest apr is paid down - transfer balances and keep making the large payments.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
If you can completely pay off some of them, then I think you should do it. Then if you could transfer the balances of the others to one card, I think that would be a good idea.
Have you heard of Power Pay? I know someone who used to be deep in debt and they strictly followed this and now own many rental properties and are quite wealthy.

You can do a search on Powerpay or look at this link PowerPay

TMW I am so excited for you being able to pay on your debt. That will feel so good!
Thank you SaraSic - that was a really short, simple, informative ideal.
And turning into power save - that's even better! Although I probably won't put AS much of what I'm paying for the credit card debt into saving - but much of it - same concept.


No matter which way I play it - if I don't use the credit cards (unless there is an absolute emergency of course), I could be debt free in 14 months or less!


EDIT: Actually, I could apply part into savings and pay a bit more to the car and student loan and get those paid off faster.
Also good on those so that when I refinance, it will be a lower payment / month.
Hey TMW - you sound awesome! I'm so happy for you.

You're thinking so rationally now - is it because you can see a way out?

FYI - Student loan interest is usually lower than credit cards, AND is tax deductible - but you probably already know that. Your idea to pay down the highest is probably the best idea, but you are smart enough to figure out what you need to do without us.

I thought the best part of your post was you saying that you already know how fast you can get our of debt. You have plans now. That is SO awesome. You're thinkin' about how to do this. Yes, you can! Yes, you will.

I hear in your posts a positive tone. I applaud you for being positive now. As hard as it was to make these decisions for yourself, you seem to have hit the ground running.

Getting out of debt is the hardest but most rewarding thing anyone can do. It empowers you. It makes you stop treading water and start living your life life you want to. It allows you to live life without paying interest for doing so. Live for you - not those creditors who want you to pay for their lifestyle. It cleans up your credit and makes people WANT to have you as a customer. If you can get out of this in 14 months - what a wonderful thing that is for you.

You go girl!
The reason I suggested that you pay down the highest interest loan first, is that it's costing you the most. For every $1000 of debt, you end up paying $1010 per month at 12% interest, or $1020 per month if you are at 24% interest. So for an example, if you have $3000 on a card that charges you 24% interest, you are paying $60 a month just for the interest. ($720 a year) So if you got rid of the balance on the 24% account, you'll get out of debt quicker, since more of your monthly payments are going to paying down your balance, rather than the interest. Usually the department store cards have the worst interest rates. The big cards like Mastercard, Visa, Amex, only charge you high interest if you've had a couple problems on your payments. Then they can get pretty bad.
Posted By: kml Re: Today we sign the papers to sell the condo - 04/20/06 01:39 AM
Financial gurus basically seem to offer two different approaches to paying down the credit cards:

Approach 1 says to do as Second Chances says - pay off the highest interest cards first. All other things being equal, this definitely is the way to reduce the balances most quickly.

Approach 2 says to pay off the smallest balance cards first. Now, this doesn't necessarily pay them off most quickly, if those aren't the cards with the highest interest rates. I imagine the gurus who recommend this figure A) you'll be motivated by seeing individual cards getting paid off early and B) you'll gain a little financial flexibility (for emergencies) by reducing your minimum monthly payments more quickly.

I think there's a third consideration for someone like you, who doesn't have much of a safety net: if your Visa and similar cards are all near their max, you might want to pay one of them down first, so that you have some credit available for an emergency. (After all, you can't charge a major car repair on that Victoria's Secret card, can you? )

As you can see, the "right" answer for one person might be a little different than the "right" answer for another.

Ellie
TMW,

That's great that you have a plan to get out of debt, then once you're out, that will be awesome if you stay out! WHich I know you can.

I'm glad you have a bigger bed to sleep in, Elvis too.

Thanks your post on my thread, what a ray of sunshine that was!
I'm so excited that I can even look at options to pay off/down debt

Oddly enough - my store cards have lower interest rates than 1 Visa & my Mastercard.
Sears is the card that offered me a balance transfer at 5.99 until it is paid off. I'm sure after I pay that off, I'll get another similar offer.

Like I said, it's a huge juggling act.
I think I'll pay off the Sears, pay off the computer (dell) and pay off the other, smaller visa. Then do minimum payments on the other visa and the mastercard and do large payments to my american express.
As I pay down the american express, I will transfer balances from the visa and mastercard to it.

Then after that is done, I will make a little bit larger payments to my car and student loan - and put money into savings.



Bf took the dog yesterday when SD came home. SD called me, I called BF and BF went and picked him up. That way Elvis didn't have to stay locked up in the kitchen alone for 15+ hours. He had fun with BF and BF's mom and brother and dad. BF's brother was telling me how their mom was holding the dog and was on the swing on the back deck - and they both fell asleep.
They were also telling me how BF was in their boat (it's small and was in the drive way while they cleaned it out) - and the dog was crying, so the dog had to be put in the boat with BF.

Then to my surprise, BF brought the dog up to Borders for when I got off work. Him and his brother were going looking for scrap and they figured it would be easier to bring him to me.
How nice. What a change - thinking of someone other than himself

Since him and his brother aren't working right now - they are getting a ton of work done cleaning out their garage and then they will clean out their basement and attic and rooms.
I'm very shocked at both of them - and their mom - for cleaning out and throwing away.


I revised my note the boss man at Borders - asking for maybe 10 hours a week. 1 weekday night and 1 weekend day. Because last night I was told that you work 2 or more days a week or you are just contingent. And you have to work X number of hours a month to be eligble for gift cards if the store gets them as a reward for high sales.

I have so much organization and elimination to do.
I have cleaning and laundry to do.
I just don't know where to start - on the organization and elimiation I mean
Had a surprisingly pleasant conversation with XH.
I called him just to let him know the amount of overpayment on the mortgages.
I had called and left him messages when I got the check, etc to make sure he got his.
I told him I could keep the overpayment and he could pay less in the for sale by owner costs.

Now we have to wait for the escrow to be paid back to us and the overpayments.
He has to wait for the water & sewer final bills to arrive and be paid and he has to show proof and he'll get another $200 back.

I let him know that my mom has his baseball/football/basketball cards. She took them from my stepdad's way back when - 1 day she stopped and SD was upset and down about money and when she spotted the cards, she thought it best to take the out of the house for safe keeping. But she failed to tell me, until she "refound" them recently. So I told XH I'll have them for him next time we meet - to close the checking account.

He asked how things were at Sd's. I told him fine - just wish I had more room, esp. cause SD wants to paint and do work and my stuff is in the way. I told XH that I will be organizing and stuff and if I find anything of his, I will let him know & we will arrange for him to get it.

He said he'd watch for any jobs with his company close to Sd's house. (there is an office that I could walk to, even in the winter it is so close) XH knows someone with the hiring.

It's a beautiful day today, I have some money in the bank.

Now I have to get caught up with work.

Always a balance.
TMW: I'm just heading out for a couple of days - to cottage, then 2 days of workshops. BUT - I wanted to tell you how impressed I am with your new outlook. Your improved positive attitude. It makes a difference. I am happy for you.

I wouldn't suggest working for Ex's company - too many problems. The further you stay away, the less likely you'll get hurt further. JMHO. Nice to see he is pleasant, though.

Wishing you continued happiness. Remember that today is the first day of the rest of your life. Make it count!

Barb
Thanks Barb.

XH works for a very very large insurance company. He works in an office over an hour away.

He was trying to be nice since he knew that the company has a regional office that is RIGHT by SD's.
I can understand some complications though - but if they were to offer me a job with good enough pay, I would seriously look into it.
They have EXCELLENT benefits, they are flexible. I know XH has liked working for the company from day 1. Everyone in the company is just incredible.

But there are no openings - so don't have to worry about it right now.
Hiya TMW,

I just caught up here... took a few days off while my Aussie relatives were visiting for Easter, and now my D12 and I are heading to Dallas after lunch for her 3-day volleyball tournament. I'm a little scatterbrained, to say the least.

Anyway, I just want to commend you for setting some positive and worthwhile goals and sharing your positive ruminations. It looks great on you, so keep up the great work!

I'm also related to people who are serious pack rats. I'm not one, so dealing with too much stuff always makes me a little anxious and a little neurotic too. My mom is guilty as charged, and although she's made some head way in her basement, it's still overwhelming.

BTW, this post isn't to tell you what to do... but just stuff to think about. A couple years ago, I was busy watching a marathon of "Clean Sweep" on TLC. Pretty much everyone has issues with stuff, but there was one particular episode that had me glued to the set. The host seemed to be going somewhere, and I was still in the early stages of armchair psychoanalysis, so I was obviously interested in what he was trying to say.

Well, the woman of the house was the pack rat. She kept really insane things... all the socks her adult children wore as babies... seemingly "in case someone else needed them". But as the host asked more questions, it became increasingly obvious that stowing the stuff wasn't to give it away, but to hold on to the past. She kept every single stinking art project her kids ever did... just seeing the myriad boxes of that stuff made my head swim. Her husband was near an emotional breakdown by having all the clutter and remnants of the past around. Finally, Peter went for the jugular.

He told this woman point blank that her obsession with storing the past was interfering with her ability to make memories in the present. I can't tell you how much of a lightbulb moment this became for me, but I suddenly realized that my pack rat relatives are suffering from the same syndrome: glorifying the past to the detriment of the present, thereby affecting the quality of the future.

After this episode concluded, I jumped up and promptly threw away about 75 vinyl record albums... I kept about 15 for nostalgic or other purposes. Within 2 hours, my huge garbage can was filled with relics of the past--many which included marital mementoes that were no longer serving any purpose.

Every so often, I force myself to wonder why I choose to glorify things that are plainly routine... or to live the past in my head with too much fondness or affection. (This is usually brought upon because I'm discontented with my present.) I remember that episode of Clean Sweep, take a mental inventory of my role models, and then I literally propel myself to shake off the past and move forward.

Sometimes it's easier than others, but I see the direct connection between tangible clutter and mental clutter. It clearly illustrates that we manifest our inner thoughts in our exterior worlds. If I weren't heading to Dallas this weekend, I'd now be a little more inclined to do some more tossing.

But since you're on a roll with garage sales and other activities of purging what it no longer needed, I'll leave you to it.

Keep smiling and moving forward. You've got so much life ahead of you and I'm hopeful for your future to be filled with joy and peace.

Hugs,

Betsey
Regardless of the exact method and order you choose, for paying off your debt, it's awesome to have a plan and know that you can succeed at it. Getting out of debt is way more important than the exact way you go about it!
Thanks.

And I REALLY can't wait to have the garage sale. Well, first I can't wait to go through all my stuff. It's like rediscovering things.
Then I'll sell stuff and get some money.

My mom found a doll shop that buys dolls - and I have several porcelin (sp?) dolls that I had in the last garage sale that didn't sell.
TMW!!

Everyone is impressed with you and I'm joining in!

I'm also glad that the people in your life are looking for ways to help you out! You deserve it.

I love that you have a middle path with Borders, now you can dig away at your debt and not have too too too much work overload!

I bet the nicer weather is beginning.

Your true character certainly shines through. Trying to give XH his cards etc. What a good soul you are!
Posted By: Toomanywords Sort of upsetting night - 04/21/06 11:48 AM
Last night I was cleaning in my room. I was going through old medicines, misc. boxes - etc.

First upset was inside a box of toothbrush cleaners (Aquafresh makes tablets you drop in water and put your toothbrush in and cleans it) anyway - XH's wedding ring was in there.
He kept his ring in the closet in the bathroom where all this stuff was - so it's not like he was trying to hide it, and it probably just fell in the box.
But it hurts me that he never noticed he didn't have it, never asked about it.
So now I'm not sure if I should say anything.

Next up - I had a box with misc. pictures, ticket stubs, cards - so I made a seperate box with cards and misc items that were for "us".

Another upset - BF (yeah, what's new?) I called him since he hadn't called me all day. Him and his brother went out on their boat. He didn't have anything to say, didn't ask about my day.
I called him later and asked if he was too busy for me. I think he meant last night - I think I meant on a larger scale. He sounded down or something, but said nothing was wrong. I just told him I'd let him go and talk to him tomorrow (today) or something and hung up.
No caring words, no interest in what's going on, how's life, how work was -- nothing. Of course when I get upset about things like this - other thoughts and feelings start to come up. Like how he made no effort to get anything for me for Easter, or any anniversaries, or Valentine's day. I know the responses you are all probably going to say/write or are thinking - I know.


But the final upset of the night was this. When I moved into to SD's, I put 2 fragile things up in my closet.
A big centerpiece with a special candle from our reception. The other was an expensive figurine XH got me a few years ago from the Disney store of Cinderella and Prince Charming dancing.
Well, while I was at the condo during the winter - SD insulated most of the attic. Accessible only through the closet in my room.

Well, last night I thought I'd take those 2 items off the shelf as part of my cleaning effort.
Cinderella and Prince Charming's arms on 1 side are broken off.
It can probably be fixed and look like crap.

I didn't say anything to SD. I told my mom who said she can try to fix it.


This morning was just sort of an agrivation.
Now, last night I got home after SD. He locked himself in his room probably around 10. He had some drinks and I'm pretty darn sure something was smelling skunky. Didn't see or hear from him for the rest of the night.
Well this moring I woke up and he was gone already.
He drove up on the grass around my car (and the grass is higher than the driveway and he has a full size van).

I sent him a text message that he could have woken me up to move my car or at least ask where my keys were.

His van could have flipped onto my car.

So today, Friday - I'm a bit of a mess.
Posted By: kml Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/21/06 04:57 PM
Quote:

But it hurts me that he never noticed he didn't have it, never asked about it.
So now I'm not sure if I should say anything.





Well, gosh, TMW, what's he gonna say?
"Uh, I'm leaving you for another woman and we're getting divorced, but you know, I seem to have misplaced my wedding ring and I'd really like to take it with me - would you help me look for it???"
Rule Number One - don't take alien behavior personally, okay?

Quote:

other thoughts and feelings start to come up. Like how he made no effort to get anything for me for Easter, or any anniversaries, or Valentine's day. I know the responses you are all probably going to say/write or are thinking - I know.





Yes - you KNOW you are settling for too little. So quit pursuing him!!! If he isn't stepping up to the plate by getting work and wooing you and making every possible effort to get himself together to the point that you would want to live with him again - well, that tells you something about his (lack of) intentions, doesn't it?

Forward, forward - quit looking in your rear-view mirror or you'll crash off this road!

Ellie



Posted By: Toomanywords Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/21/06 05:16 PM
Stopped on my lunch and got a good chuckle out of that last line.

With Xh - what upsets me is that we had a conversation where we asked each other what the other would do with the ring. He said he was going to hold on to it.
Who knows the last time he seen it.
Like I said - it was PROBABLY an accident that it was in that box.

Should I just hold on to it? Sell it? Offer it back to him?

I'm not pursuing BF.
I don't know if he really realizes how close I am to just giving up on the R completely.
It really hurts that I'm not important enough to him for him to put forth any effort - for a job, to woo me, to wow me, to show that he wants this relationship to work & progress.
Posted By: Toomanywords Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/21/06 06:01 PM
The figurine that got broken - See it here

I can't believe XH spent so much. My mom thinks it can be fixed, but it will never look same

I'm more upset that SD didn't say anything versus the fact that it got broken.

He was like this with my mom too though. If something of her's got broken or chipped - he would turn the figurine or hide it. His mom did the same thing - when my parents were moving everyone was helping. 1 picture his mom moved was put in a closet - turned out it was broken.
Posted By: Toomanywords Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/21/06 07:52 PM
Romeo Romeo - where for art thy Romeo

My knight in rusted aluminum called. Asked if I was coming over to eat. I asked what was being made - and this man o man of mine gratiously told me that there are 4 left over pieces of pizza if I want them.
I told him I'd just eat at my stepdad's.

I asked what he was up to. He said nothing. Asked if he had plans for the night and he said his brother wants to go to the bar.
I said I had to finish work and call me later or something.

Oh - and my mommy dearest called me all excited.
Last night I told her I wanted to get roller blades.
She calls me, she went to this discount/closeout store by us and found roller skates for me for only 4.99. She left them at BF's house (remember Bf's mom and her work together and are friends).
I asked BF about them - he said they are tennis shoes with the wheels that pop in and out.
Thought that counts I guess
Posted By: qoe100 Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/21/06 08:04 PM
TMW,
Put the figurine, wedding ring, pictures of XH and any other momentos you have from your M in a box. Don't open for 5 years. Trust me, you won't give a rip about any of that stuff by then!!!!
Posted By: kml Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/21/06 10:36 PM
Quote:

I asked BF about them - he said they are tennis shoes with the wheels that pop in and out.




Hey, I always wanted a pair of those! Why should kids have all the fun??

Cut stepdad some slack - no, he's not perfect, but he stepped up to the plate to help you out at a time you really need it - his assistance is going to enable you to get financial freedom.

Let's talk about the future, shall we? Here's your homework assignments:
- get a piece of cardboard and some magazines and glue. Cut out pictures of everything you would like to have in your future. Dream big - put that sailboat, or the Eiffel tower for your European tour, or your horseranch, or whatever, into a collage. Handsome husband, kids, home, career, whatever you dream of. Make the collage and put it in your room where you can see it every day. It will exert a powerful pull, helping to keep you going in the right direction. You can't make a dream come true if it's fuzzy and indistinct.

- second, PLEASE go to the library or bookstore and get a copy of Your Money or Your Life by Dominguez and read it. Really, it's a book that can change your life.

Ellie
PS - we gotta work on getting you some girlfriends IRL, too. Your social life is too dependent on BF.
Posted By: whitelight Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/21/06 11:04 PM
Yes, I agree. Your getting out of debt is planned out, now I'd like to see some baby step listed to get you a bigger social circle.

You love planning and you love lists, so let's see it! Also, shouldn't be too hard to get that book Ellie recommends since you work at Borders!



Good job declining the left over pizza! Geez!
Posted By: kml Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/21/06 11:25 PM
You know, TMW, the pizza thing just brought up some old memories - let me share them with you, as an example of what IS reasonable to expect, even from a broke boyfriend.

I had one boyfriend in college who was a poor graduate student (okay, ALL my boyfriends in college were poor students, but this particular story is about James). He had no car, no money - was one of 13 kids so no help financially from home. But he had a great way of making things happen out of nothing.

Shortly after we met, he found out it was my birthday - and made me a gift of a little stoneware honey-pot he had in his office. (I used it for years, and thought fondly of him every time, even though it was a "second-hand" gift). He almost always showed up at my door with flowers - picked from neighbors' yards on the walk to my house. Our first real "date" was when he invited me to a free concert of Peruvian flute music in one of the dorms on campus - which I still remember as one of the coolest concerts I've ever been to. And he cooked for me at his house - cheap funky hippie food, like a zucchini quiche with grated zucchini (people who grow it in their gardens here give it away for free because it grows too well).

Anyway - it was an ill-fated romance that never really got too far for other reasons (although I carried a torch for him for quite a while). But just thinking about how he didn't use his poverty as an excuse not to woo me, and how special his little gifts and efforts were to me, just makes me realize how much you are missing out on.

Don't make excuses for him. He could pick some flowers from the neighbors yard, bring that pizza over with a $3 bottle of wine, take you out for a walk or make plans to go to some free event on the weekend.

Ellie
Posted By: 2ndChances5 Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/21/06 11:33 PM
Maybe your SD did not break Prince Charming. Perhaps it broke spontaneously when your prince charming cheated on you. That makes sense.... Ya know, keeping gifts from an ex is sort of iffy in the first place, but once they break, let it go.

His ring? Of course he said he'd hang on to it when you asked him. He was married to you, he couldn't help but know you well enough to know that any other anwswer would hurt your feelings and lead to a big scene from his persepctive. But those rings were promises, promises he broke a long time ago. Throw it in the yard, sell in on ebay (you might get $50) but clearly it no longer represents a promise or bond. Don't take ownership. This is not a new issue... it's just another little peice of the real issue, in which he left you and the marriage. Once he did that, the ring not being important was a given.

I know these incidents sting, I went through many myself. Just remind yourself, these are just little bits of the real issue, which is that he left you. He lied, he cheated, he broke his vows. Once they do that, it's a certainty that you will also find they don't wear a ring, don't keep their ring, have other women, marry other women, yadda yadda yadda. And perhaps if they bought you a Prince Charming statue, then prove they are anything but Prince Charming.... the statue spontaneously breaks. Some women would break it for just that reason. I'd say dump it.

Oh, and on BF? He did not call...so you did? So if he does no work in the R, shows no interest, should you just pick up the slack.

Don't call. If he's in a wreck, someone will contact you. Don't call.
Posted By: kml Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/21/06 11:47 PM
Yeah - sell the ring and buy yourself some rollerblades with the money!!! Two problems solved!!!

Face it - even if exH miraculously came back to you and you miraculously forgave him, you'd want NEW rings for a NEW R anyway, right? So sell that sucker!!!

Ellie
Posted By: 2ndChances5 Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/22/06 03:19 AM
Oh my. I forgot to even react to the ultra romantic offer of leftover pizza on a Friday night. Quite a charmer, eh? LEFTOVER PIZZA????

And, what's with his lack of even owning his plans for the evening? Obviously HE wants to go to the bar, but he can't say it? He has to say his brother wants to go? That's like if someone asks me what I'm doing next week. "well, my mother wants to go to Portugal". That's not even an answer!!!

Sigh. Leftover pizza. Every woman's dream for date night.
Posted By: whitelight Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/22/06 05:14 AM
TMW,

Please remember to not take these things personal - as far as BF is concerned.

You deserve so much, but he wouldn't be able to give it to anyone, even to someone who didn't deserve it.

I don't think you are taking it personal, but it's just a weakness of mine and I wanted to reassure you that you are awesome, and it's not you at all!

I would throw pcharming away, 2 broken arms? Egad! He he, don't think I ever used that expression before.

Posted By: 2ndChances5 Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/22/06 03:07 PM
Whitelight says she'd throw Prince Charming away.... well I'd probably break it some more before I threw it away. If it were a statue of a kitten or something, probably not. But for it to be Prince Charming, from the man who pretended to be my own Prince Charming? I'm thinking there would be some additional breakage, even if it meant a few minutes of cleaning up.
Posted By: Livnlearn Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/22/06 04:06 PM
We bought two pairs of these recently, one for D10 and a spare pair for when her friends come over!

They're fun for going around malls and other very smooth areas in.

Livnlearn
Posted By: Toomanywords Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 12:08 PM
Down mood. Sorry

Friday stayed home. I forgot my cell phone in the car, around 7:30 or so I went and got it. BF had called, didn't leave a message. I called him, asked what was up. He said him and his brother were going to the bar.
Didn't even ask if I wanted to go or anything. Asked if I wanted to come over the next day (saturday) - I said call me, we'll see.

Saturday he called around noon. I went over. He didn't get up to greet me or anything. I didn't make the effort to go to him. I sat in the recliner, he was in the love seat. After a little while he asked me to come over by him. Still no hug, no kiss. He asked what was wrong and I told him - he doesn't call, he doesn't ask about my day & he couldn't even invite me to go to the bar. He didn't say anything.
I had to leave for work.
I sent him a text message letting him know when my break was - didn't hear from him all night.

Sunday - took the dog for a walk. I called BF to see if him or his mom were home so me and the dog could visit. He said he was on the way to Home Depot to get some cement, but he'd be back in 20 minutes and his mom wasn't home. He called when he was on his way home and the dog and me were still walking so we stopped. BF and his brother were fixing the floor of the garage. He didn't talk much. His mom asked if I wanted to stay for dinner. I declined because SD was doing one of his big cookouts. His mom told me about her plans to buy filet minons for BF's birthday Tuesday.
BF also asked if I was staying, when I said no he looked a little upset. Before I left he was playing with the dog - and I looked at him and just said, "We don't seem to have much of a relationship going here"....... no response. I told him to tell his mom not to buy me a steak - that I'd just come over later and give him his birthday gift.

Last night I sent him a text message - "seems u don't care much about "us", so u not just give up. easier to write than say. y is it so easy to give up on me & us"

No response.

Later I logged onto AIM via my cell phone.
BF's mom was on. I asked if BF told her not to buy a steak for me for tuesday. She said no, why? I told her cause the price & cause i'm not sure what's going on with me and BF. She said she's not worried about the price & it's only once a year. I told her I'd stop later for cake or whatever to give him his gifts. She said that's ok, but if I change my mind she isn't buying the steaks until tuesday. I told her it depends alot on her son - which hasn't been anything so far. She said he's been quiet. I told her I'm just done and I don't know what else to say or do but give up. She said maybe things will get better. I told her I keep hoping. She said to keep thinking positive. I told her I'll try.
Then I logged off.

I just wish I didn't care so much. That my heart wasn't so invested.

SD asked me twice again this weekend if I'll be ok there, at his house.

Borders cut me back, as I asked - I work tonight 6-10 and Saturday 3-11.
I asked for 10 hours a week and to work during the day on the weekend, but oh well.
Posted By: BarbieDoll Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 12:25 PM
(((TMW))): Breakups always hurt. I know that you are really down. But you deserve so much better. Now its time to accept that its over and move on. As for BF's mom - well of course she will continue to encourage you to be with him - you are what she wants for her son!

If BF's greatest outing of the week is to the bar without you - I think that speaks volumes. If he makes no effort at all - I think that says a lot too. Who would want to be part of that????

NOPE< TMW - it is time to pick yourself up and dust yourself off. Take a look in the mirror. You are beautiful. You deserve better. You have already taken steps in the right direction to your new future. Don't step back now.

If it were me, I would give him the birthday gifts then cool it. Go for the cake alone, just as you decided. Don't get sucked in by his mom. Remember - he learned his behaviour somewhere. After that - let him do the contacting. Get out there. Join a group or start a new hobby. Look for new friends (male or female) there, not at the bar. Cultivate the kind of people you would like in your life and figure out where to find them. What have you always wanted to try???

There have been some excellent suggestions made here with respect to making plans and setting goals. Go back and read them today. I hope they give you the encouragement you need to pull you out of this slump. Start those lists.

And start living the first day of the rest of your life. As a DIVA!!!!

Barb
Posted By: 2ndChances5 Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 03:22 PM
TMW,

wow, he does not act like much of a BF does he? It seems like he just goes with the flow, based on whoever is nearby? When he lived with you, he hung out with you. Now he lives at home, and follows his brothers lead?

I do think you are making a mistake to continue to send him text messages, and say things about why not break up. You continue to try to put the decision on him, rather than just take a stand for yourself. You say/text him these things, and he does not answer or does not remember the conversation. He does not change his behavior, then you are disappointed. It's almost like you are trying to get him to break things off? To tell you, yeah, you're right, we're done.

Why do you want HIM to call things off? Why is it so important that this be HIS decision? He clearly is not the leader, he can barely follow.... yet it looks like you are attempting to goad him into dumping you, based on your saying that things are not working. If you know they are not working, why not just make the decision yourself, for yourself? Why not own it rather than trying to get him to make the call? These statements, and text messages are clearly your attempt to try to get him to react-- but over time it's also very clear that it's not working. It's a cheeseless tunnel.

I also doubt there is much good in your trying to confide in his mom, in hopes that she will intervene on your behalf. I think you are trying to make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t. It won't work.

You deserve so much better, I wish you knew that.
Posted By: Toomanywords Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 03:22 PM
If I had more sick days, I'd be home.

Tears just keep coming out and I can't stop them. I'm trying so hard.

I was weak and called BF, just to ask if he had gotten my message. He said yeah. I asked if he was talking to me. He said yeah. I asked what he was doing, he was getting scrap with his brother. I told him he doesn't respond, he doesn't say anything.
There were several moments of silence and I told him I'd let him go.

I sent him a text - I keep reaching out & getting nothing. I'm sick of crying and your silence. We need to talk in person, face to face. Tell me when is good & where. i'll pay for the texts (he doesn't have text messaging) i won't send more. it's just killing me you not saying anything. i don't know what's going on with u, what u want to do, how u feel

I'm sick of hurting and crying and being weak.

I wish I didn't care about him and this relationship so much. I wish I didn't love him.

I've tried all I could, I've said all I could, I did all I could. I gave him so much time and I hoped and hoped so much.



Sorry, I'm just down. Very down. I know how disappointed everyone in my life is with me - how disappointed I am in myself.
Posted By: 2ndChances5 Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 03:38 PM
Aw TMW, I'm sorry you are having such a rough day. Good for you, telling him y'all need to talk in person.

Now you need a plan for what you will actually say during that conversation.

Don't be disappointed in yourself, and don't wish you did not care about him. No sense in either of those. You can't help that you care about him-- but you must realize that he/the relationship is not good for you, not what you need or want, not what you deserve. Don't be mad at him, don't try to change him-- he is what he is, and there is no way you can make him something else. Don't be mad, just realize that it's not right for you. Do what must be done for YOU, without anger, without remorse. Just do it because it must be done.

Sometimes after a divorce, the damndest things make us sadder than they should. I remember being desolate over a post D relationship, and even at the time, part of me know that it was not worth being that upset over. Looking back, it was leftover greiving for the divorce, it had to flow out somewhere.

Be patient with yourself. It's a long road to recovery. Take your time, there's no "fast forward" option. Just be true to yourself. Things will hurt for a while, but not forever. A year from now, there will be SUCH a difference in your life, as long as you stay on track and do the right things.
Posted By: Toomanywords Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 03:55 PM
Thanks 2nd.
I just keep wishing he cared, maybe not as much - but just showing he cared a little would help, would be an improvement.

I kept hoping for the best, hoping for some change - for him to open up a little, anything.

I hate doing this - with his birthday tomorrow. I hate being a wreck like this. Feeling so unneeded, unwanted - again.

As for the conversation - not sure what to say. I've said it all, I've done it all and I'm just done. I can't do it anymore. This past week I gave up calling and making plans - and the relationship seems to have died. It kills me because I do love BF and I care a great deal about him and his family. I just can't keep putting myself through this.
Posted By: 2ndChances5 Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 04:16 PM
I had a post D BF. For a while it was good. It was so nice to have someone there, to care, to do things with. At some point, I got this funny feeling that I was doing too much of the work in the R. Not nearly as extreme as in your case, but it was not the balance I thought was right. So I backed off, to observe. And guess what? He did not take up the slack. So I was done. Not mad or anything, it was what it was, and if I did not keep things going, well... they did not go.

I was done. It was not reasonable for me to want him to be something other than what he was, to act somewhat other than what can naturally to him. Most men are pretty attentive when they are courting-- he was too. But once they "have you" they stop courting and take things for granted. I figure that's most of what happened-- that and the fact that we'd helped each other weather some of the horrible post divorce lonliness, needing to have someone to be with.

If you don't want to have an official break up, then don't. Just stop calling. Stop thinking of him and referring to him as your BF (since he really isn't).

Mine was a live in, and at first I just moved him to another room before he actually moved out of the house.

This guy came into your life for a reason, a purpose. Probably to get you through a rough time post D. He did his job. Nothing more, nothing less. People come into our lives for reasons, but when that reason is gone, then they usually fade away. You are not losing a great R... that's not what this was. You are losing your hope that this was going to turn into a great R-- but that was not a reasonable hope, it was pretty much what you wanted but there was little to suggest it was realistic.

It's all a process. You will likely have at least 2-3 more "transistional" men before you are ready to really be comfortable on your own. Only then are you actually ready for a real R, that could go the distance.

Baby steps. This is not easy, but you CAN do it.
Posted By: kml Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 04:24 PM
Quote:

I sent him a text - I keep reaching out & getting nothing.



QUIT PURSUING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Either he's completely not worth it, or he'll pursue you - but he won't pursue you while you're doing all this.

Be polite, show up for his birthday, then drop off the face of the earth for 2 weeks. let him do all the contacting. Do not suggest getting together unless he brings it up. And fill up your off time with activities with friends, or activities that will help you make friends, so that you are no so dependent on him for your amusement.

I know you have these feelings - but I ask you to consider how much they may be due to the bonding hormone oxytocin that is released in the brain during sex, versus how much is true admiration and desire for him as a person? He doesn't sound like much of a catch to ANY of us here, and frankly, you DESERVE a man who pursues you, desires you, treats you like gold.

Ellie
Posted By: 2ndChances5 Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 04:33 PM
Quote:

QUIT PURSUING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Either he's completely not worth it, or he'll pursue you - but he won't pursue you while you're doing all this.






I agree. Plus, it really sucks that TMW blatently pursues and he does not even respond... that's the worst possible option, totally unacceptable.

Oxytocin=bonding hormone... ROTFLMAO. I always figured it was the "make her think she loves him so she does not have to admit to loose or inprudent behavior" hormone. But bonding hormone is so much easier!
Posted By: Toomanywords Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 04:36 PM
No more pursuing, I promise. No more calls or texts.

I guess it was my belief that he had the potential to be a better man. The moments that the potential shined through - that gave me the hope.

I guess a large part of me hanging on this long was that I don't want another failed relationship. But I know I've done more than my part.

It all just hurts.

Still no response from him. I'm sure he's upset, but he just won't talk about it or write about it or let it out any way.
I'm eating my lunch for the mere fact that I know I have to eat. My stomach is all in knots.

The only 2 men I've loved in my life - seem to just give up the relationship, give up on me. Well, there was a time that XH faught for the relationship - when he had a fear that he might "loose" me.
In the begining of the R with BF he tried, he called, we went out. Now that we are back to living seperately - I don't know, we just couldn't survive as a couple. He made plans for the day after we moved back in with out parents, but nothing after that.

I just don't know. I don't know why my heart is so attached.
Posted By: 2ndChances5 Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 04:42 PM
Quote:

No more pursuing, I promise. No more calls or texts.
I guess a large part of me hanging on this long was that I don't want another failed relationship. But I know I've done more than my part.




Everyone has failed relationships. It's just part of life. The best way to avoid a real failure, is to be very careful about getting involved in the first place. It's fine to date, fine to "test the waters". But you really need to be cautious before fully vesting in a relationship. I would say that no one can make a wise decision in less than 90 days-- and it's totally possible to still misjudge.

Getting too involved, too fast is the surest way to risk either being in a bad R, or having it fail. And, newly divorced people are the most susceptable to this, we are very prone to rebound because we want to fill that gaping hole in our heart, our life.

My personal beleif is that when you think you need someone, you're headed for trouble. When you are sure you don't need someone, but you might want someone... then you are in a better place.

Next time you are at the bookstore, check out "He's Just Not that into You". It's a quick, easy read with a lot of good common sense.


Posted By: Toomanywords Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 04:54 PM
I've read that - good read. Some funny stuff too.

The only person I've ever thought I "needed" was my wasband - I needed him because I loved him. Because we thought we completed each other (at 1 time), because we thought we were soul mates (for a long time).

I don't feel that I need BF - but I love him and I'd like things to work with someone I love. But the person I love has to be willing to go the distance. To step up, to be the man I need.
Things are in the air. I'm not going to call BF or text him - I'll go to his house for his birthday and we'll see what happens. If he wants a relationship - he's going to have show it.

I don't know what I should say if/when he does call and if/when he wants to talk. I love him, but I can't be with someone who can't show they love me & can't communicate with me and who can't put forth equal effort to the relationship.

My mom called - she said I just have to put a wall up. Put myself in a room with all the things I love. There is only 1 way in and out of the room and the door locks on the inside - so I control who is in and out.
It sounds like a nice easy concept - but difficult to put into action.
Posted By: BarbieDoll Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 05:17 PM
TMW: Weve all been where you are right now. I had a tough time letting go of my first Post D R. It REALLY hurt. But I have to ask you this "what do you love about him"? I mean it - he just seems so unloveable to the rest of us. He has so little ambition, accountability, he never bothers to show interest in you, do anything for you. I mean - you've listed tons of stuff here on the bb that tells us why you are angry with him and why he doesn't live up to your expectations but not much about why you would want to love him. I'm just curious about why you would hold on. "let go". He's just not that into you (yes, I read the book) and he's also just not worth it.

OK, grieve today. Give in to your feelings. Cry. Drink tea. Have a bubble bath. Tell a friend. Or just tell us. But grieve a lost R. You are not a loser. You just are too quick to give away your heart to one who doesn't deserve it. After you've healed a bit more - go find someone who DOES deserve your love.

After my sad sad post D breakup I dated again within a month. Not the right guy - but closer. Met Josh a month after that. And he is worth it. I knew right away. 2 years later its still good.

I promise you - you won't be alone too long. But learning to be alone and liking it is really good for you. That's when you take back the control. When you decide when and if you want a new man. You'll be surprised - sometimes you'd rather just be alone.
Barb
Posted By: Toomanywords Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 05:30 PM
I'll be the first to admit that the R with BF started too soon and it likely started because of the familiarity. I didn't have to take all the time to explain my craziness and my family's craziness and I didn't have to take time to learn about someone else's craziness or their family's.

I'm also the first to admit that I love him a lot for the man he could be, not the man he is now.

I love that he is a get dirty-works with his hands kind of guy. That he can fix my car and stuff.

He showed he cared about me in little ways. With the dog or the car. Buying a drink I like when he stopped at the gas station, ordering a drink I like. At the condo - he would put my towel in the dryer when I was taking a shower so it was warm when I got out, or he'd take a little colder shower so I could have more hot water.
He liked me being with him and I liked that. He was affectionate.
He invisioned a future of us - he believed in us from day 1. His friends believed in us.
The way I would catch him with my dog.
It's a lot of little, everyday things that made me love him - again.
Posted By: BarbieDoll Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 05:36 PM
TMW: BF did show he cared in lots of small ways but those are now in the past. Hold them in your memory and it you let go before things get more sour - you will remember him with fondness.

But "I love him more for what he could be". That's the fairy tale. Because that is not the reality. If he becomes that man and actually changes. And actually comes for you. And for some strange reason you are not in a wonderful new R. Then deal with it then. But the truth is - there really are no knights in shining armour who come to save us. We have to save ourselves. Then when the time is right - we usually meet someone whom we'd love to be with. Who wants a rescuer anyway??? PHOOOEEYY!!!

But thanks for making the list. It does help us understand a bit. Heck - 5 years later and I STILL miss the H who would bring me that first cup of coffee in bed every morning. Damn I miss that!!! Josh does it when I'm at his place but that's not a daily thing.

Barb
Posted By: Toomanywords Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 05:48 PM
before this gets all locked up and someone throws away the key - Chapter 22

Barb - I replied on the new post .
Posted By: 2ndChances5 Re: Sort of upsetting night - 04/24/06 05:57 PM
Yep, if they did not have any redeeming qualities at all, we would never have been with them. My wasband made coffee and brought it to me every morning. I had a foot rub or back rub (or both) pretty much every day/night for more than 20 years. I never once toted groceries or trash, he did all the toting. I never pumped gas, if I was almost out, he'd meet me at the gas station so he could fill my tank for me. Now, as nice as these things were, it did not actually make up for his drinking, his lack of earning a living, his lying..... but I can remember the good things fondly, while knowing I am better without him in my life.

For a while, after the D, it was harder to remember these good things-- as the hurt was overwhelming. But in time, emotions fade and it is easier to have a balanced view. I may never find another man who does the exact same nice little things. Who handpaints Christmas ornaments for our first Christmas tree, who sent flowers on the 10th anniversary of our first date.... But I am also strong enough and smart enough that I will never again be with someone who wants me to support them while they goof off and lie to me. I deserve, and will demand better.
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