Looking forward, while glancing over my shoulder

Hi Jim,
Your post filled in some blanks for me about your situation. As everyone else has said, continue to work on yourself. Be the best person, friend, dad, etc that you can. Improve your life as much as you can and whatever is meant to be will happen. I know that all of this sounds very trite and we're told over and over. Just trust me, you will be happy and in love again when the time is right (could be W or someone you're not expecting).

Also, if drinking has "ever" been a problem for you, don't do it!!! You are way to valuable to your kids and friends (that would be me

)!!!!

Well Im finally back. Thanks to all who have stopped by! Ill try and reply as soon as I get a chance to.

THE WAY THINGS ARE

(sigh) The way it stands now is the D should be final the end of this month or April.In the last few months I had given her a couple things to read about R issues and how they could possibly be resolved which she did. I had talked to her a couple times about what happened to us and why which she pretty much agreed with. She also had lunch with my dad ,at her request, to iron out their differences about the sitch. This is the first time she ever agreed to the "possibilty" of us ever getting back together. She apparently also mentioned it to my D. A few weeks back a long time friend of mine called the, er, her house looking for me. She answered and he hung up. He was basically used to break the news to me and took great exception to that. She called him back and they talked about it and she apoligised. She mentioned to him that she was happy with the divorce, she loved me as a person but was no longer in love with me. She also mentioned that "you never know what may happen down the road", which my buddy found irritating.
Of course she must know Im gonna hear this so WTF? Is she telling people what they want to hear? Is she merely spouting comforting platitudes? Or do's she really believe that IS a possiblity? Who the heck knows. Oh yes and 2 weeks ago while I was sitting in the living room she was talking to SD about taking part of her tax money and getting her tubes tied. I got fixed a few years back when we decided we were done having kids and it would be easier and safer for me to do it.

Anyway the D is gonna happen no doubt in my mind. What comes after this? Well my guess is she is gonna spend some time looking around and maybe trying out some newer and possibly younger models to see if she can find one thats a good fit. I know that she has been accepting invites to do things from single men. Last year it was "hamster man" but I think he is out of the running now.Most recently it has been an "old high school friend" Funny when my MIL found out about the D she mentioned dating to my STBX and that one of her old boyfriends was now D. Is it him? Beats me but its awfully coincedental, although she has been on that classmates dot.com for the last couple of years and thier high school reunion is this july. She is attending.

Its possible she is a little insecure about herself. She struggles with her weight a bit although she is not heavy in anyway. And she always complains about her "ugly legs".
But over the last few years she has mentioned a couple of incidents where men have complemented her on her looks. And yes she dress's up very nicely and can be very pretty. Of course I have been telling her she's the most beautiful creature to walk the earth but I dont think my opinion counts for much these days,LOL. She has been working out fairly regularly so she can look good for the summer and her reunion.

I guess next I will have to talk about where I am and what Im gonna do. Sorry about not replying right now I guess I just feel the need to journal a bit. Thanks again to all of you who have stopped by. I really do appreciate it and I wish you all the best. Till next time, Take Care All!

JIM

James,

She's clearly fence sitting, looking to see what side of the fence the grass is greener. Maybe if you push, she may fall off into the wrong side of the yard? Sounds like she struggling with some self-esteem stuff perhaps?

Honestly... the tube tying thing is one way to keep all of her options open yanno? So, let her think it through. She's seeing the "freedom" of the other side of that fence and not clearly seeing the benefits of M side of the fence.

Ok time to sum up I guess.

Where am I now? Finally seeing some light at the end of the tunnel. I still love my W somewhere but most days its pretty managable. I know our R wasnt perfect and never will be but I still see the value in it even if she dosn't. Yes part of me still hopes that things will turn around some day but Im not going to wait for it forever. I dont believe Im ready to do the date thing yet so I'll just keep on keepin on the way Im doing now. We still talk occasionally and even joke a little in person and on the phone but no R talk and no ML for the past 3 or 4 months. Im not gonna push either one. Just friends sorta and thats the way its gonna have to be I guess. I still miss her some times and the strange physical connection we once had. And the idea of her sharing her life and herself with someone else still bothers me. But I guess thats something that Im just gonna have to deal with when it comes. I dont miss the chaos and the temper that came with dealing with her and the kids sometimes but I miss my home and my family. I hope that someday she will find it in her heart to forgive some of the stupid things I have done to bring us to this point but I dont know when or if that will happen. But as my ex-best friend recently said "you never know what may happen down the road"

You are my sunshine my only sunshine
you make me happy when skys are grey
you'll never know dear how much I love you
So please dont take my sunshine away.

B Good! B Safe! B Well!

Love to all, JIM

Jim,

In some ways I am envious of you. At least you're not in limbo anymore. Sometimes I wish my limbo would end one way or the other. In or out, on or off. This middle ground is treacherous.

Best of luck with your life. You are very wise to take it slow as far as dating goes. Give yourself a year or two before you even think about getting serious or steady with anyone. You and I will make someone a good H some day. It's the some day part that is difficult to wait for. I want it and I want it NOW!

Condolences and Congratulations,

COG

Well Steve, Jilly, V , Blu, and COG. Thanks for stopping by and lending your support!

COG; I had hoped to hear some more good news from your sitch. It sounded as if things were really starting to look up.

Blu; Fence sitting? Perhaps, but even so she seems to be leaning to one side pretty well, heh, heh.

Well its late and I think Im gonna turn in. Take care everybody and may God bless each and everyone of you!

JIM

Hi James. Thanks for stopping by mine. I just read your "sum it up" post. You said so many things that also summed up how I feel. It was almost like reading my own. Glad to hear your doing good overall. You have so many on this board that became your friend. You know, none of us are perfect, but we know we've tried so hard and that's all we can do. Hang in there. 3-4 months, that's where we differ, lucky you

Jim,

Things are definately looking up for us, just sometimes I'm wanting it to end one way or the other. Had a good convo last night. We talked about dating other people and how neither one of us was into that. She's been asked out a few times but keeps turning them down. She says she turns them down because she's still hopefull that our M will work out. She knows that dating would be the end for us. She's still hanging in there and wants me to hang in there too. I thanked her for persevering and she thanked and praised me to.

We talked about how wonderful our friendship is and how nice it is that we can be honest with each other. She's exciting to me because she's finally being her true and honest self, and I'm able to accept her and be interested in who she really is. She says some days she thinks it could work out and some days she does'nt. She also says she's closer than she has ever been. That's major progress from two years ago.

I told her I've met several ladies that I am interested in, but feel the same as her about dating. She says I'm more interesting and exciting now than before because I have other interests besides work, ie, biking, running, poker, a motorcycle. So, I think I'm going to keep concentrating on these interests, and maybe take on a home improvement project too. Something about a man with a tool belt. I think it turns her on a little. I gave up golf two years ago. She just told me last night that golf bored her. I think I made the right move there although sometimes I do miss it. My index was 10 when I quit playing.

My W is stunningly beautiful. I have always liked attrative women, and she is a major turn on. Even after having four kids she is gorgeous. She keeps getting more beautiful as time goes on too. I did'nt always feel that way about her though. I completely took her for granted and now I'm suffering because of it. One of my biggest regrets is not honoring and appreciating the beautiful person and great friend that she is. Hopefully, I will get a second chance.

COG

Cog; Im so glad to hear that! I truley wish you and your W continued success. As for me nothing much happening. I have casually mentioned a few weeks ago about possibly going to se a movie sometime (one of the managers at the local theatre gave me a free pass for two). Would like to see Be Cool. Well STBX actually did bring it up the other day which mildy suprised me but again I dont place to much stock in it. She also brought home a flyer she got from work about discount tickets to go see Riverdance live in Detriot. We are all big fans so yesterday she ordered tickets for us and the kids to go see it next month.

So on I go waiting to see what or if anything is gonna happen. Ahhhhhh the life of a limbo king, LOL!

Take care all!
JIM

Well almost forgot some links to my old post's in case there are any masochist's out there. Hard to believe its been almsot 10 months since the seperation.

Take care all!
JIM

http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=749103&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=793282&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=823961&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

JamesLuscious, (love calling you that, hehe)
Sounds like you have some positives going after all. Maybe you need to become a little more aggressive in seeing that these things (movie, Riverdance, etc) happen. Don't expect her to make the plans. When she shows some interest, make the plans immediately.

Are you related to the "mambo king"?

Jim,

You're taking the right approach. Just wait and see. You never do know what will happen.

What you see may not be "accurate" reality, either. You're seeing the situation from just your perspective truthfully. All you can do is see what she does, can't read her mind. I can't say for sure, but if she's grappling with any self-esteem issues, it would seem she's probably going to be acting somewhat unpredictably. There are issues within herself she's grappling with. Keeping the options open so she can date or get a "better" guy is something I've seen before with friends and on the board.

Keep up the great attitude. That if anything is going to see you through all of this, no matter what happens!

Hey James,

If you do want to stay in the M, I'd do what the other poster says and book stuff the minute she says she wants to, and also compliment her in areas she is insecure with (i.e legs) but don't instigate any physical contact.

Change your mindset for now and think of her as a fond friend, rather than your W, and you won't drive yourself crazy wondering 'what if?' etc while you are waiting to see what happens.

Get busy, and don't go into her house every time she asks, don't answer the phone every time she calls etc.

Jo.

Hi Jim,

Sorry it took so long to get over to your thread. I see a lot of positives in your situation especially if there isn't another man involved. You and your W are still talking and you see each other several times a week because you have kids.

I've read a lot on these boards about MLC and men in their 40s and 50s; but I've noticed with my women friends and family members that some of them have gone through something similar in their 30's. Just speculation here, but I wonder if it's the realization that their kids are growing up and that they (the women) are no longer as attractive to men in general as when they were in their 20's. Two of my sisters are divorced, and they both left their H's in their 30's for other people.

I guess that thought crossed my mind because of what you said about your W being complimented by other people on her looks. I wouldn't ask her if she's going through some type of MLC, and I think you're doing a lot of things right such as complimenting her since she appears to like that.

Hey all! Thank you for posting. Its possible that she has some self esteem issues. And frankly she do's have ugly legs. But you know what? I dont care. As far as viewing her as a "fond friend" and not going to the house. I try, but I get my kids off the buss at home 2 or 3 days a week becuase STBX and SD both work. And its hard to look at the mother of my children and the best lover I have ever known as a "friend", but I do try. Its funny last night I made them dinner and at some point in the conversation she mentioned that nanny 911 show and how she mentioned that its unhealthy to let your kids sleep in your bed or room all the time. I just looked at her like "DUH". All those years I tried to get her to make the kids sleep in thier own room so we could be alone and who knows maybe even ML and now this. I swear I wanted to slap her.
Well saturday they leave for tennesse. Thier first trip without you know who. My SD's dad lives there and they are going down to visit and get a pic of all the kids together. STBX is gonna rent a car and I told her to pick what she can afford and upgrade from there and I would cover the difference. I want them in something big and safe. Im gonna be staying at the house to take care of the pets and to get away from mommy and daddy for awhile. Just bought a new vehicle so Im not driving something thats 1 step away from the junk yard anymore. And I just picked up a part time job at the local community college for 2 extra days a week. Hopefully things will work out and I can get in there full time and QUIT MY OLD JOB!!!!!!!!!!!

Well thank you all again for stopping by. Somedays I dont even understand why I still feel the way I do about STBX. Its no longer overwhelming like it used to be. But it still comes and go's. I just dont know how long its gonna hang around. Some days I look at her and I dont feel a thing. And others I still SEE HER, yah know? I dont now any other way to describe it. It used to be sometimes she would catch me staring at her and she would look at me and say "what"? And all I could say to her was "I just see you". I could see her as she used to be and how she was now and maybe how she would look in the future, all rolled up into one. But no matter what she was always beautifull, and special, and unique. Distinctly herself. And there will never be another one like her.

Take care all, and I will see some of you tomorrow night!

B Good! B Safe! B Well!

JIM

Congratulations on the new job, Jim!!! As an employee of the college, do you get to attend free? That would be wonderful.

Sounds like you'll have a calm relaxing week ahead of you.
See you tomorrow.

Well they are all set for thier trip this week. They are leaving about 4 or 5 in the morning saturday. Was kinda bummed cuz I didnt think I was gonna see them again till next wednsday but the STBX suggested I come stay the night there friday after work so I can see them off in the morning. Gonna feel wierd sleeping in my old bed again with the STBX laying next to me. Ah well.
JIM

Hi James. Glad to see some pos. baby steps going on. I know it is still frustrating. Keep DBing and the faith. How did it go last night and this morning?

Have a good weekend!

Hey all. Well nothing much to report. STBX was not feeling well and didnt get much sleep. We got up around 4 and they left about 5 that morning. STBX had to come right back cuz D was crying and wanted another hug before they left. I felt so low. Thought this might be nice but in a way its not. The house is empty except for me and all those family photos and memories. Talked last night for a bit before they went to bed. I guess they are not far from Gatlinburg. Its basically a tourist town but its a lot of fun. Took the kids there a couple times and STBX once on one of our few trips alone. I asked hey are you gonna go? And she said I dont know. Well I said if you do dont tell me, heh, heh Im thinking of going again sometime. Well Iv got 2 weeks off this year she says. Huh?????????????? whats that supposed to mean.
Bah
Take care all!
JIM

Duh??? What do you think it means? It means that she's open to the idea of going with you. Now, let her know when you'd like to go, make the plans and lay low for awhile.

JamesLuscious, do you want me to run your life for you for awhile?

Ok Jilliscious , your in charge.
Well after that first night it was kinda nice being at home again for awhile. They got back late wedsnday evening. I decorated the house for easter and put out the candy for them all. Even momma got a couple chocolate bars. They were pleasantly suprised. We always fill these plastic eggs with candy and money for the kids and hide them in the yard. This year I had to have the neighbor set them out for me cuz I hadda work that day. Well off to work I go again!

Take Care All!
JIM

Hehe!!! Jillicious, I love that!!!!

So did you make the plans to take W to Gatlinburg soon?

Well we will have to see about doing anything together this summer. Like I said, I'll believe it when I actually see it happening. Everything is just talk and innuendo IMHO at this point. Although we are definetly going to see riverdance, I seen the tickets on her dresser the other day.

Well Jilly I finally got up the guts to call the court again. Geezzz my STBX. Still the procrastinater I loved, heh, heh. Seems the court has filed a motion to dismiss the case on April 1 unless one of us shows some action to get this thing moving and done with.So either her lawyer or her should be getting notice in the mail soon. Now I know that the judgement was made againt me cuz she got that lettor from her scum sucking lawyer, no offense Manish and Blair, to come in and sign it. And then I assume that the final date is then set and the judge signs off on it and we are done. Maybe Im missing something here. O well. Yea I know the first thing that entered my head was Hmmmmmmmm maybe? but no its the court that filed the motion not her sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Anyway its a beautiful day today and I hope that at least some of my fellow Michigan DB'RS will have a chance to get out and enjoy it.

Take care all!
JIM

Yup I did a little looking around and from what I can gather the court sets a time limit on how long you can wait before they tell you to sh*t or get off the pot. So I expect my darling STBX will be burning up the phone lines to her attorney. I really expected this to be done with by the end of April and it looks like that should be the case.

On another note I called earlier to say hi to my D but they werent home. So STBX called me a little while ago to tell me about just getting back from some gas station cuz SD got here first fender bender, heh, heh. Seems somebody rearended her at a stop light and then took off. Her and her friend are fine. Anyway they had the school dance for my S and D and had fast food for dinner. Tommorrows SD's birthday so STBX invited me over for cake that afternoon if I want.

Also the wife of the pastor at my church came down with viral menengitis a few days ago. They just had a baby about 4 months ago so this really is a bad time, as if there is a good time to get this. If anyone feels so inclined please say a prayer for Ronni.

Thanks all and take care as always!
JIM

Man what a beautiful day today! To bad I was at work, heh, heh.

Got up late so I didnt make it to STBX's for cake this afternoon. I did call later to wish SD a happy birthday. Did end up having lunch at work with a very kind and supportive lady but I wont mention any names. She's also very shy, LOL!

Been debating whether or not to switch to the other D forum. I guess I just dont have it in my heart to give up yet. After closing tonight I just happened to be sitting near the phone when it rang and looked at the number and low and behold. STBX called me to tell me about the practical joke they played on SD with her B-day cake. And we talked a little bit about their day. Nothing much but it was nice to have her call and not have her wanting something for a change. Gosh I think that was one of my actual goals at some point in time, heh, heh. I also mentioned I was still trying to figure out when to take my vacation and she said she keeps forgetting to look at the calender at work.

Got the actual notice in the mail from the court about the intent to dismiss today so Im sure she got one too. That should get things moving along.

Funny, right after I hung up with STBX I decided to walk around and wouldnt you know it the P.A. was playing a song I had bought for her a couple years ago. Boy that sure put a lump in the old throat I must say.

Sheesh, no wonder I feel like a fish outta water sometimes wondering whether to flip or flop.

Take care all!
JIM

Artist/Band: Twain Shania
Lyrics for Song: You're Still The One
Lyrics for Album: Come On Over
(When I first saw you, I saw love. And the
first time you touched me, I felt love. And
after all this time, you're still the one I love.)

Looks like we made it
Look how far we've come my baby
We mighta took the long way
We knew we'd get there someday

They said, "I bet they'll never make it"
But just look at us holding on
We're still together still going strong

(You're still the one)
You're still the one I run to
The one that I belong to
You're still the one I want for life
(You're still the one)
You're still the one that I love
The only one I dream of
You're still the one I kiss goodnight

Ain't nothin' better
We beat the odds together
I'm glad we didn't listen
Look at what we would be missin'

They said, "I bet they'll never make it"
But just look at us holding on
We're still together still going strong

(You're still the one)
You're still the one I run to
The one that I belong to
You're still the one I want for life
(You're still the one)
You're still the one that I love
The only one I dream of
You're still the one I kiss goodnight

(You're still the one)
You're still the one I run to
The one that I belong to
You're still the one I want for life
(You're still the one)
You're still the one that I love
The only one I dream of
You're still the one I kiss goodnight

I'm so glad we made it
Look how far we've come my baby

Too funny!!! That was one of my favorite songs too! And it was a Shania CD I was singing along to on my way to Ann Arbor to have lunch with a very good friend. Also did some shopping, no bargains, but found what I went for.

Whether you want to admit it or not, I think STBX is warming up to you. Whatever you're doing, seems to be working. Now pin down that vacation time.

Jillicious

Well STBX called and left VM on my phone saying they wouldnt be making it to church this morning, kids wouldnt get up, so she was gonna take a walk instead but she would have her cell. Called her back afterwards and talked about nothing in particular. Sounds like Im gonna have to help her do the tax's tuesday when I go over there. Off to enjoy another gloriuos day at work, BLAHHHHHHHH.

I did see a really hot blouse in Forever 21. Looks like something that would look good on a short attractive blonde type. Hmmmmmmmmm now who do I know like that, lol

Take care all!
JIM

Oh one last thing I did ask her if she was still thinking about doing something after my sons soccer practice tuesday ( i.e. movie) and she said sure. We will see.

Tata for now!
JIM

Jim,
If this is a nonkid event, take her to see "Fever Pitch". It's very cute/romantic/funny. She'll love it and so will you.

Hey Jim. Fever Pitch would be great. Sorry that you and your W aren't back together (yet?), but I do see positives. Her going to church, going out after practice, etc.

As always, wishing you all the best. Want you happy. Thanks for visiting mine. I've been the same way the last couple of weeks, not posting or coming on the site quite as much.

Hope you have a really good week.

Ok, Talked to STBX last night and found out she haf the day off today so I made a joke about her buying me lunch at work today, which she said was a possibility. So she called me today about watching the kids thursday and I asked about her day. She was going to see a co-worker who recently had surgery and I said something about lunch being off then. She said something like "sure if you want to" and I replied that it was her day so if she did to give me a call afterwards. So she called and we had lunch here on campus.

After I took her to her car I asked if ther was something she wanted to tell me. She said no not really, so I brought up the dismissal notice. She said she was unaware and maybe she should check her pile of mail. She talked about a few other things and then as she was getting ready to leave I brought up the subject again. I cant remember the exact words that were said but it did lead to a short R talk.

Again I cant remember the words line for line but she did say that she liked they way we are right now and that she do's bounce back and forth at times.Maybe that will change someday but maybe not. We both talked about the fact that it is hard for us to talk about our problems, and that niether one of us would ever go back to the way things were. She also said maybe we could talk later cuz I still gotta go over after work so we can finish our taxs. I also said that I seem to have a lot more faith in us then her and she agreed. She also brought up our upcoming trip with D and that it should be nice and relaxing.

Thats about the gist of it. Im typing in a hurry and trying to remember it but I dont have one of those photographic memories like some of us.

Gotta go, Please take care!

JIM

WOO WOO!!! I'm so excited for you!!! This is great news. Jim, I hope it all works out for you. I know how much you still love her. As you and I have talked, I've never understood your reluctance to talk openly to her so I'm glad some of this is finally coming out. Just don't over react and scare the crap out of her. It's definitely a baby step and you need to remember that.

Does this mean you aren't willing to play Jane & Tarzan with me in Toledo?

Darn it!!! I already bought my costume!!!

Ok I remember that maybe it had to do more with being afraid that things would go back to the way they were. And I made the comment about the dismissal notice " not being what I thought it was then" i.e. initiated on her part.
Man I wish I had one of those voice activated recorders.

Anyway I went over later and we had dinner then off to sons soccer practice at 7. Sometime after we got back "home" SD shows up with friend and STBX asks SD about being around for a while ,I assume to watch the kids, so that we could catch a flick. I remind her we have to work on the tax's and she says O yeah. So we spend the rest of the evening doing that and then after get the kids off to bed. Im pretty tired and I gotta work at 7 that morning. STBX asks if I have my uniform with me. She then says something about staying there and going to work from there. I said sure and grab all my stuff and throw it in the wash for the next day. We hit the sack and just kinda chit chat in bed. After awhile during the convo I start rubbing her back and shoulders while Im laying next to her. At some point she decides its to hot and gets up to get a lighter shirt. When she sits back down the buzzer go's off on the washer and she makes an unenthusiastic comment about putting my stuff in the dryer cuz other then a pair of jeans all my clothes are in the wash. So as she is sitting on the side of the bed changing I make a deal with her to go do it myself if she leaves the shirt off for a bit (leer

)
So when I get back she is laying under the blankie's and I start talking to her while I resume my back rub and "Lo and Behold" its not just the shirt thats gone. I think there was a lot of moving around and mutual admiration after that, my mind gets foggy here. But anyway after awhile we lay there talking for a bit more and then drift off to sleep. Course the next morning I help a little with the kids, kiss her goodbye and split for work.

Qoe; That has always been part of are communication problem. But I have been reluctant to talk becuase it go's against all the rules. However as I believe I have mentioned to you before sometimes I wonder if Im not DBing myself out of the R by not talking, yah know?
Your right I think now I need to be really careful but it will help that I wont see her until next tuesday cuz of work. And no calls unless its about the kids.

Oh, and you know if I ever decide to play Tarzan after the D your my first choice, heh, heh.

Cog; thnx for stopping by. Interesting about you W saying the same thing. However from what I understand the dismissal is a court ordered time limit. I guess its to help speed up the workload, my guess anyway. I know she has the jugdement papers now cuz I saw them in her car when we went to soccer practice that day. She must have forgot they were laying there so I put them under some other things and played dumb. All she has to do is sign them now.

YOWZA!!!!

Keep.....er, up the good work, Jim!!!!!

Hehe, I crack me up!

Hi Jim,

Sounds like you're doing great DBing, and your W's responding positively in some ways.

Regarding the dismissal, is that a dismissal IF you don't do something like sign a judgment within a period of time or is it an actual dismissal meaning that the petition for divorce has already been dismissed? I had filed for divorce in a different state, and after H and I went into marriage counseling, my attorney contacted me to say the petition would be dismissed if I didn't take the next step (I think it was something like filing affidavits). To be honest, I don't remember exactly whether the court automatically dismissed the petition for lack of progress or if my attorney filed a request to dismiss. I think the court dismissed the petition on its own; but in any event, I didn't want to proceed with the divorce.

Good luck, and you're in my prayers.

Hey Eyes! thnx for stopping by. Yes from what I understand the court files the dismissal which will go through IF you dont do something within a certain time period. So I would assume that she needs to sign the judgement and then request the final hearing?
As I said I know she has the judgement all she needs to do is sign it now which Im 99% positive she will.

You know I had a chat with a lady at work. She and I have been talking a little cuz she is going through the same thing right now. I dont know why but she just opened up to me one day about a week and a half ago. Guess she just needed somebody to talk to.

Anyway, I said something to the affect that sometimes I wonder if my STBX is just stringing me along. Sort of, I want to see whats out there but just in case and in the mean time Im gonna keep you in my back pocket in case things dont work out. And she said that that was something that had occured to her too. Obviously I have been telling her a little about my sitch.

So now Im faced with a dilemma. Im certain that she's aware of the fact that I still care about her (no kidding, heh, heh) So knowing this sorta leaves her with all the power, so to speak. Isnt that the perfect WA situation to be in? So now Im faced with questions.

1. If thats the case how do I change the balance of power.

2. Will I really be able to accept her back IF she is done experimenting and decide's to come back.

3.Will not having any more "intimate contact" with her after the D have any impact at all. I mean of course unless something just as good comes along for her, lol. I dont plan on it becuase I want it all from her or nothing. We used to talk about how different it was with each other and how much bettor it was. Course at some point in are R that took a serious nose dive. But again the other night there were some ummm very positive comments on her part, just like old times. I believe that sex for a woman is more emotional then physical, but even women get horny.

I dont know. I know STBX did give me her vacation schedule so it seems obvious that she is giving me the opportunity to spend some time with her and/or the kids this summer.
But now Im wondering if I want to play her game anymore. This seems like a one sided ball game. Where I get to play by the home teams rules.

I guess Im just venting a little. And maybe coming down from the high of yesterday. I must admit I really enjoyed myself. It was such a wonderful experiance to be able to be that way again. It was almost like old times again at least for me. Sure I think things could have been a little bettor, if we were more emotionally connected then we are right now. And in a way it hurts. I so want the best parts of are R. And I wish we could make it even bettor, and I believe we could. If we tried. But I have a hard time believing that she will ever see it that way. And I know there is no guarantee. Heck I still have some doubts and I see what I think are problem's on her part that I dont know if she will ever address. But I wish I could help her to see. And I wish I could show her what I THINK I have learned from all of this reading and struggling through our own R together.

Wow. I guess thats enough for now. Sorry about that. Its just that I hate and I am happy for what has happened to us. Im glad becuase I think that after all these years of life my eyes have FINALLY been opened. But I hate that this is what it has taken to do so. And I really hate that perhaps my STBX has not gotten to that part of her journey yet. Or maybe she is just smarter then me.

I guess only time will tell. Or maybe not.

Have a good night everyone. And please take care.
JIM

JamesLuscious,
I can't sleep, darn it!!!! This is the second night in a row. Anyway, my take on your latest....ahem, adventure.

I think you opened yourself up emotionally to your W, therefore, now, you are "protecting yourself" in the event that it didn't mean the same to her as it did to you.

Yes, I'm sure at times it does all seem one sided. That's probably why I didn't last very long at the dbing in my case. It always seemed like my entire M was one sided. And really, it worked both ways.

Also, I think you are pessimistic in regards to her signing the papers. If she was positive that this is what she wanted, she would have done it before now. She can also ask that it be put on hold for a while longer, I believe, and under the circumstances, this might be the best option for now.

Another thought I'm having regarding your doubts is that "you" may have outgrown her in this process. You've read a lot, you know more of what you want, and only you know if she's capable of providing that for you.

As far as changing the balance of power....what needs to happen to make her pursue you? You just gave her a little taste of "what she may be missing", so, now do you play the game where you act nonchalant about it? How would she view that? Or is it time for the LRT? You said that you've always had a problem communicating with her regarding your problems. Has that changed? If it hasn't, can you continue to live like that?

All stuff to think about....or not. It's way past my bedtime....(yawn). Nite.

Sorry your having trouble sleeping Jilly. Well apparently I didnt make a "big" enough impression tuesday night, lol. I got a look at the papers today and yes she did sign them.(Sigh)

Anyway there is still the possibility of an R talk this weekend so if it happens I have been thinking about what I want to say so here go's

1.First expand on the fact that she likes the way we are now. Bring up the fact that its nice that we are becoming friends again. But I would also like to find a way to make her think about why that might be.
2.Is it possible that we can improve on that? Should we and why?
3. What would have to occur for us to become close again. Are there things we can do to make that possible?
4.What is it we want from a marriage?

Just some thoughts right now I still need to think about this. Appreciate any input also.

Qoe; Perhaps your right, It did mean alot to me to be able to ML to my W again.

I had hoped that if we had a positive convo like the one we had after lunch that I might ask if she had ever considered the possibilty of postponing the D for awhile so that we might continue to explore are new R such as it is. But after I saw that she had signed the papers this afternoon I consider that highly unlikely.

Yes I beleive that I am ahead of her in that respect. I do think that its possible to improve your chances of loving each other and being happy together actively instead of just "waiting" for something to happen. I definetly see some of the same things now that I seen before that I believe she needs to address within herself. And Im wondering if she is likely to do that or even agree.But then again I might be kidding myself.

As for having her pursue me? I dont know, it doesnt seem likely. Im beginning to wonder if I have no choice any longer but to GAL and risk the chance of finally leaving her behind. I know that she isnt the only fish in the sea, as they say, but I really had hoped that we could pull this off and make something even bettor together.

Can I live with a lack of communication? Absolutely NOT. How could I? I see where it has helped to get me and I never want to be here again. I guess thats part of the reason I just want to say screw DB and find out what the hell is going on in her head. Im tired of guessing and doing nothing about my sitch while my M go's down the toilet. I dont see it changing anyway after all this non R talk so how could it get worse?

crap! I just wish I knew what to do. I wish we had taken the time together to at least have a fighting chance to survive this.

Ah well thats life I guess. You win some you lose some.
JIM

Oh Jimbo Sweetie,

The only way you'll ever really know what she's thinking is if she tells you.

The way it looks to me is that she IS stringing you along. She keeps you just close enough to serve her emotional needs. She doesn't really care about the pain you feel, not knowing where you really stand.

I don't want to sound mean because I don't think she probably even knows what she's doing. Her emotional needs come first and while she's in that state, it will always be her way.

This does sound like I am all doom and gloom and I don't mean to, but I see repeatedly all of these great people here and we're all going through the same thing. Some people boast of how they and their exes are friends, but is that really true? On our part there is still a lot of hurt and pain at the rejection and betrayal. For them our friendship can ease their guilt or if they are takers, they know they can count on us.

I think for the kids sake, we should all try to get along, but how many of us that have been lied to and cheated on, when the dust settles, really care to be friends?

You are a really great guy and there is someone out there who will appreciate you for just being who you are. IMHO, for right now anyway, that's just not her!

Hey, are you still sitting along in the parking lot in the dark everynight? Right, you're a security guard!!!! You perv you!

Love,
Bethie

Hey James,
I almost called you today to see how you were doing but I was going 90 mph on 131 at the time and I would've had to put my chicken nuggets down.....

I'm sorry she signed the papers. I know how hurt you must be. Beth is right in that the WAs do go through the motions of wanting to be our friends so they can convince themselves they're not the bad guy.

This was really mean of her IMHO!!! Maybe she doesn't know how she feels or what she wants, but she did know that she was hurting you by being with you the other night under the circumstances.

I agree at this point, you have nothing to lose so why not say what you have to say to her. You know me....I never would've been able to keep my mouth shut for as long as you did. You're a gem, Jim and somebody else will appreciate you for it.

OK, does this mean the Tarzan/Jane thing is still on?

Hugs to you....
Jill

Oh COG,

I don't know. It seems as if by James saying all that that he is making all of the concessions. Maybe I'm just so jaded after all this time, that I get angry seeing the same scenario played out over and over.

I guess if that's what he wants, then it would be worth it. I was there once too, so I do understand.

Bethie

The only problem with telling someone you forgive them is they may not feel like they have done anything wrong.

The best love affairs start as friends.Only you can decide if you want to continue to be her friend.You know if you are strong enough.It takes takes a lot of strength to keep giving without getting much or even nothing return.

But isn't that what love is about?

You dont have to be a doormat to give.

If your giving freely your not being a doormat.Because your giving is a gift.And gifts don't come with a pricetag.

When love comes with a pricetag it is protitution.

You know your own strength.

How much can you bare? We all have a limit.Where do you draw the line.

Is she worth fighting for.Or is it time to put up your boxing gloves and go home.

Later Friend.
Briget

Heeeey Jim. Thanks for stopping by mine. As you know, when I first joined the board here way back, you were one of the first ones to help me. Yeah, W and I are like friends now since October, but part of it is because it's all about her. I know that's standard. She hasn't been treating me right. But, I know I've been great to her, her d and my baby son is the love of my life. So I can sleep well. Can't imagine going through all of this without DBers and this site.

I'm heading out the door. I'll read up on yours tonight or tomorrow and check in again. Hang in there and keep the faith.

Jilliscious, Cog, Bethapaloosa, Briget,Eyes, and of course Steve;
Thank you all for stopping by. I am overwhelmed by your response's. It is so kind of you all to take some of your precious time to post a response on my thread and I am very greatful and humbled.

Yes I have been wondering lately if STBX is a bit of a taker. And Im not sure for how long I can keep this up. I intend to try for awhile longer becuase of my family and my prolonged yet waning affection for her. It do's seem that she wants to keep me around at least for a little anyway while she has the opportunity to "play the field" a bit. She certainly has no problem getting attention from the opposite sex. I took my S to his soccer game today, STBX had to work and when I got back their was a call from some other guy on the machine. SD didnt seem to know who it was but S seems to think its a friend of his buddy's dad. So that makes 3 that I know of anyway.

Im torn between continuing to try and show unconditional love for her or perhaps fostering friendships with other women to create some kind of doubt on her part. I remembered her comment after are lunch "date" when she saw the new cross I bought myself. Something to the affect of whos the girl? kinda question. When I couple that with the comment she made to my SL 3 or 4 months back I wonder if she is at least a little curious. It doesnt seem to bother her much though. I did tell her it was a present to myself which is true. The thing is I am definetely am going to wait till after the D and even then Im not sure if I will feel totally comfortable with it. Guess Ill cross that bridge when I come to it.

As far as being friends? Yeah I hear yah. I do feel a certain amount of friendship towards STBX but I also know that there is more to it then that, on my part anyway. And yes I do believe that it do's make it seem easier on the WA's when that happens. I think maybe STBX is in HER comfort zone as far as are R is and that as long as it continues this way it may help to assuage any guilt she MIGHT be feeling. I also think that the D will help her in that respect also. I mean as long as we are D its not really cheating is it? Just speculation on my part.

Man what a week! LOL Well gotta get ready for job 1 so take care all and thank you so much again for stopping by. You are all truely priceless people!

So long for now!
JIM

Wow, for some reason songs just seem to keep popping into my head lately. I had completely forgotten about this one. And then it was there. Boy is it OLD too!

I guess its in keeping with the theme. I have been wondering a little, that maybe my age is at least a slight factor. It never seemed to matter at all before but now I begin to wonder a bit. It used to be a joke between us, but maybee its not such a joke anymore.

Any way here it is;

Midnight blue
(Melissa Manchester)

Lyric:

Whatever it is, it'll keep till the morning.
Haven't we both got better things to do?
Midnight blue.
Even though simple things become rough,
Haven't we had enough?
And I think we can make it.
One more time, if we try.
One more time for all the old times.
For all of the times you told me you need me,
Needing me now is something I could use.
Midnight blue.
Wouldn't you give your hand to a friend?
Maybe it's not the end.
And I think we can make it.
One more time, if we try.
One more time for all the old times.
Midnight blue.
I think we can make it.
I think we can make it.
Wouldn't you give your hand to a friend?
Think of me as your friend,
And I think we can make it.
One more time, if we try.
One more time for all of the old old times.
I think we can make it, one more time
I think we can make it, if we try
I think we can make it, one more time
I think we can make it, if we try
I think we can make it, one more time
I think we can make it, if we try
I think we can make it

B Good! B Safe! B Well!

And may the best things in life be yours.
JIM

hey JamesL(oopyluscious - IMHO

)

I've done a tour of your thread and I have to agree with COG on this one. Remember I'm the WAW that went back.
But you're right, it's tough knowing that she's signed the papers already...where to from here? I have NO idea.

In a way I'm expecting the same to come from my H. He's confused about what he wants, me or OW. Oh well, guess I'll find out soon enough.

But the thing I find most encouraging is that you are remaining honourable to your W and your M while this is all going on. For your own sanity I wouldn't start having any kind of emotional or physical R with OW. That way your conscience is clear.

She's not stringing you along, trust me. It's her way of trying to show you that she doesn't want to be the bad guy, she DOES still care. I did the same thing, but H did the whole pursuing thing and pushed me away a million miles. And now it's role reversal.

J you're doing great even though it's tough - just keep your eyes on Him and step firmly on the rock.

SUNSHINE HUGS!

Posted By: 3K451 Re: DB Boo boo - 04/17/05 01:38 PM

Jim,

I'm going to give you a bit of a different twist in all of this.

Unconditional love? Hmm. Now, if it's "unconditional," why am I seeing that you're still expecting certain reactions out of your STBX? I did that with my ex, didn't work. Let go, totally let go. Whatever you do, you do because you want to, because you are a generous, giving person who does not expect anything. Don't let her ruffle yer feathers in other words.

As for dating, Jim... what do you want in an R? One thing I went through and I think it's a common dilemma... so many want to date and find someone in these situations. Not that it can't work out, but it seems to me to be a more natural course of action to let that "desire" be and work on discovering what you want in your life and in an R.

If your STBX is jealous because she saw a new cross and thinks it's from someone else, I'm not sure that's a good sign. Looking back, I did the same stuff. Hung lingerie up in my laundry room knowing darned welll my ex came back to get free fluff and fold when I was away at work. Well, let's just say I learned I don't need a jealous person in my life. It was a pretty good experiment overall, really. He could do whatever he wanted and disregard my feelings. But when I showed a bit of independent thinking or living, well it was a sign to him to try to control me rather than discussing an issue through and being honest with me.

I still say your STBX is confused as all get out, she doesn't know what she wants. But let her be, let her go. She's looking for attention from men because perhaps she doesn't know how to make herself happy and fulfilled yet. You can't do it, either. That comes from within.

My two cents' worth, which in this day and age is probably worth half a cent

Jim, you're going to get through this just fine, no matter what way it goes. You gonna be in Toledo? Get your butt in the glass city, will ya?

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 04/18/05 01:44 PM

Hey Ness, Blu; Thanks to both you fine lady's for stopping by.

Well I guess the general consensus is that its time to truley let go and do the dark/GLA thing. This is so sad. Through all the ups and downs and the really tough times I never really believed I would be here some day. I really miss the girl I used to know or perhaps I just thought I did.

I guess your right Blu. Time to really expect nothing cuz then I wont be dissapointed, heh, heh. As far as the jealousy thing STBX has never really been the jealous type, but then I have never given her anything to be jealous about. I just thought the comments a bit odd cuz why would you care?
Unfortunatley Im 99.9 percent sure I will not be making it to Toledo this weekend. Im really dissapointed too. After coming crashing down from the high of last tuesday I really was looking forward to getting away and having a good time this weekend. I needed it. Ah well.

Take care all and I wish you all the best.

JIM

Posted By: Steve4Family Re: DB Boo boo - 04/18/05 03:27 PM

Hey Jim. After reading about the past couple weeks, so many people are giving you good advice. The advice that COG gave to you was a lot of the same that I was thinking.

Stringing you along, if she is, that can only benefit your chances. I don't think you string somebody along if you're 100% sure that you want a D.

You still have many baby steps and positives happening from her. Heck, you're still having fun with her. You know this, that WAS are selfish, it is about them during this process. Our loving spouses from the past, can be like aliens.

It still doesn't make their hurtful actions right. But I also think that she is still very confused and not sure what she wants. Keep letting her see you at the top of your game and make her mind wonder about thoughts of you.

A important thing is that you are doing your best and being you. You can sleep well at night.

Hang in there.

Posted By: qoe100 Re: DB Boo boo - 04/18/05 06:37 PM

Jim,
Next time you have a song you like, call and sing it to me over the phone. Right before bed would be best.

Geeze, I'm going to miss you and Sad this weekend. I couldn't wait for you to see my Madonna costume. Darn it, now I'll just have to prance around at the jazz club in it.

Love ya!!!!

Posted By: Laurie Re: DB Boo boo - 04/18/05 07:51 PM

James,
Thanks for pointing me to your thread...I finally made it! And it sounds that your friends are supporting you going a bit more darker at this point, is that right? How are you doing with that?

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 04/18/05 10:47 PM

Hiya Laurie! Long time eh?

Yes that would seem to be the case as far as going dark.

Well since the seperation ovwr 10 months ago I have been trying to be upbeat and positive as much as possible. We have still spent quite a bit of time together, almost all of it with the kids. I have been trying to keep all are contact as fun and positive as possible. But nothing seems to have changed much. STBX is still going ahead with the D and I dont know what else to do at this point. So I guess I have no choice but to start minimizing my contact with her as much as possible and try and totally let go. Its a risk of course and Im saddened by the idea but what else is there? I have a part time job in addition to my full time one so that will help. Also Im going to try and spend my time with the kids more often just with them. Of course this should free her up a little more to "not date", lol, but O well. Thats just another chance I have to take.

Its been a long emotional ride with lots of ups and downs and lots of post's. Guess thats why they call it the rollercoaster

Thank You very much for stopping by!

JIM

Posted By: Briget Re: DB Boo boo - 04/20/05 12:02 AM

With all the work you do and spending time with the kids it sounds like you wouldn't have a lot of time to spend with her anyway.

But why dont you find a hobby that will fill up the down times?

When I went dark on my H I refinished my kitchen table.It took me three months.It had about ten coats of the uglies green paint.Now I have the prettiest dinning room table in the world.If I do say so myself.
But I never got around to the chairs.Totally mismatched.

How about golf?
Or a softball team?

I joined a pool league.Not for everyone.But I'm good at it and I enjoy it.

Maybe I will put a pool table in ly garage this summer.

There are many shades of dark.From going total black out.I don't this is pratical with kids.Grey would be not being available all the time.Showing signs of moving on.Making her wonder what your up to.

Note a lot people have tried to make there spouses wonder if they were dating.For the most part I think that backfires.

Someone told me the other day that whick is easialy gained has no value.I dont' know if I believe that.But when you think about what we value in this world the things we value are hard to get.

From the material to the spirital.

But no matter what you decide abut going dark it should never be used as a weapon.As in I can't get you to give me what I want so I will cut you from my life.But more as a tool to GAL.
You should do this lovingly.Not easy when every fiber in your body sometimes wants to strick back and just show her what she will be missing.It's giving her a chance to see what she is missing without hurting her.

But that being said.From your posts you dont seem like the type to want to hurt her.

Later Friend.
Briget

Posted By: Steve4Family Re: DB Boo boo - 04/20/05 03:58 PM

Hey Jim. Have a great time with your kids. They will always have unconditional love for you.

Michelle says that one doesn't just fall out of love. Remember the paper trail in the mall story that you told way back when

Posted By: Laurie Re: DB Boo boo - 04/20/05 05:30 PM

James,
What specifically have you or will you do this week as a way of letting go more than you have?

What hopeful responses are you looking for once you let go a bit more?

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 04/21/05 08:57 AM

Hey Briget;
No I dont have that much time anymore, thats for sure. And there is no way I can go totally dark becuase of the kid thing, your right.

I understand about making people wonder and "creating competition", but I feel uncomfortable with that and I just have a general moral objection to that type of strategy.

Quote, "But no matter what you decide abut going dark it should never be used as a weapon.As in I can't get you to give me what I want so I will cut you from my life"

Boy I know what you mean. I so struggle with this. I have to find the balancing act between showing I still love her without making it obvious? And I need to " let her go" to find her own thing while I somehow try and enjoy my own life while I continue to wish she was still in it?

How the heck do you do that?

This is so hard.

Thanks for stopping by
JIM

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 04/21/05 09:02 AM

Hey Steve!

"Remember the paper trail in the mall story that you told way back when "

How can I forget. That was really wierd. It was one of the things that really started me thinking about my choices.

I dont know for sure whats going on with STBX. But I sure wish she would get her head out of her ass. Or maybee she has and I just cant realise that.
JIM

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 04/21/05 09:10 AM

Im really sorry guys Im trying to respond as much as possible. But Im really tired these days and I dont have as much time as I used to. I have had a really crappy day.
JIM

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 04/21/05 10:21 AM

Wow I can hardly think, I think, lol.
I woke up in the middle of the night and that is part of the reason Im here. Saw STBX tuesday because of S's soccer practice and we talked a bit. At some point I made this comment about making a "mistake" last week when I stayed over and perhaps I needed to, as she put it make an "error correction". To which she readily agreed. Unfortunatley I did not have the right uniform for that job with me and I had to take an I.O.U. I told her this and she said to write it out and I will sign it, which she did.

I really suck at this DB thing. When am I gonna learn?

Today I had to stop by cuz I forgot my keys at her house. She was doing some planting in the front yard. I finally had to go to class and she gave me a quick hug and kiss before I left. I dont get this.

When I got home THE ENVELOPE was waiting for me. I now have a date and time. On May 3rd at 1:30 p.m. I will no longer be "officially married" to my wife.

I dont have to describe the feelings that I have right now. Im sure many of us have been there or are close to it. I know Im a man of many faults and weakness's. But I really did love my wife. I really did try to change that which I needed to. I really did want to save our relationship becuase I think it was imperfect but worthwhile. I really did desire her above all women. I really wish I wasnt here right now.

This time spent alone
In grief for opportunities lost
No chance to make amends
For the bitter word or the slamming door
Nothing but the fading need
Of a lovers quest unfullfilled
This corpse of wish's go's to its grave
unwilling, unwanted
A solitary mourner its only companion
The ash of your loves dying ember
falls heavily
cast by the hand of your pain and doubt
Do's a wounded child
Its life just begun struggle any harder
To break the the bonds of unwanted death
Like an orphan of neglect
It reach's with one hand, lacking two
And sinks slowly to its own demise
O love of mine
Do not abandon this offspring of ours
Born of hope and dreams
Of passionate embrace and love's oath sworn
Do you not yet hear its cries
in some room of your heart?
Its feeble grasp
bound by the uncertantie's of your soul
Its failing sight
stung by the tears of your sorrow
Its tortured breath
squeezed by the closing of your unbelieving mind
Grieve for its death
A life unlived
Regret its time lost
Of accomplishments never realised
Of joyous abandonment, abandoned
And warmths touch unfelt
And cry for its loss
An eternal sleep, unbroken
by the wishfull dreamings
of love and hope

Blessings upon you and yours. Thank you all for stopping by. Perhaps its time to pick a more cheery thread. I do thank you for stopping by.

JIM

Posted By: JRB Re: DB Boo boo - 04/21/05 11:22 AM

Jim,

None of us want to be in the situation that brings us to this board, and many of us wonder how we will be able to go on. I can only encourage you to spend time with friends, to think about the other things that are important in your life, even though it may seem at times as though there are none. There are, and you need to focus on them.

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 04/21/05 10:02 PM

Thanks JRB, I hear what your saying.

Well life just gets bettor. Yesterday I discussed my intent to step down from my supervisory position with my boss. Becuase of the fact that there are only 4 of us and everybody else's life is more important I work all evening shifts every friday, saturday, and sunday, which is what I have been working for the most part for 21 years now. Boy and am I tired of it. This means Im unavailable to do much with my kids or anybody else for that matter. My only option is to step down and take a pay cut of $3.20 an hour so that I might have some time on the weekends to take my kids to the zoo in Toledo or just spend the day with them.

Almost half of what I make per month go's to pay back a debt I owe which will be over with at the end of June. So in order to try and make more I picked up a part time job in addition to my full time one, working 3 days a week. So know I get my papers in the mail. She couldnt even talk to me about this? Why am I so suprised by that? And I get a good look at them. With the 100 bucks a month she wants me to pay on HER credit card and the support its almost the same amount of money. I cannot believe it. I left her everything and took nothing. I cant even afford my own place right now AND pay my bills. Why the heck was I so foolish to trust her? I guess giving her the cars,the house and everything in it, and continuing to pay for it, just wasnt enough. I just dont know what Im going to say to her, Im just so stunned by this. To think that I loved this women so deeply and trusted her even after she cheated on me once and now this? All the while she's smiling and giving me the maybe things will change maybe they wont speech? Oh yes we are going to have SUCH a relaxing time on are trip. Oh and lets not forget Riverdance. What fun we will have while I stick it to you, you stupid schmuck. My God do's she really care so little or is this some way for her to hurt me further? I just dont understand.

I guess I really am in the right forum after all, cuz I dont see how I could ever want this women back now. Im sure glad I never really had to die for her cuz I would have. I just cant believe this.

Posted By: LarryJ Re: DB Boo boo - 04/21/05 10:30 PM

Hey James sometimes things sure don't make any sense at all. I remember the ex talking to me before she left and telling me how much she hated the thought of leaving and this friend of ours hitting on her, well actually the best man at my wedding, then as soon as she moves out of the house she moves in with the guy. I know most of it was done to hurt me and the funny thing was neither of them could figure out why they lost the friendship I had for him. I got so vexed I saw four hundred and elevendy eleven colors of red.

You are going to have to soon give me an address so I can send this cheese before it melts, since it doesn't look like your db gathering will fit my time off. I looked really hard at that too, darn it. But you take as good of care as yoou can and God Bless. Larry

Posted By: spitfire57 Re: DB Boo boo - 04/21/05 10:53 PM

Hi James sorry to hear about your sitch, look after yourself you have a life to live too! C.

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 04/22/05 02:10 AM

Im sorry about replying so late Laurie I'v just been really busy and stressed out lately. The highs are still high and then I come crashing down again. I had hoped to spend more of my time alone with the kids and not go over to the house as much like I usually do with them and her. I had hoped that after a time she might become curious about me and even call for no reason lie the night she called me at work to tell me about the birthday joke they played on my SD. I was hoping to see perhaps a little pursuit on her part after a time, but I guess thats not gonna be the case now. I need to talk to her about this financial arrangement that she never bothered to discuss with me. I will see her saturday after my sons soccer game and I need to let all this go and try and make her a little more flexible about this decree. Its going to be an interesting conversation and Im quite nervous about it. But I think maybe its time. And after that I guess its up to me to let go of her for good. Even now its still hard. Thank you so much for stopping by and Im glad we had the opportunity to talk in the beginning.

JIM

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 04/23/05 10:01 AM

Called STBX the other day from work. Asked her to call me from home when she had her lunch break. She never did. She ended up calling me later that night and left me a voice mail saying she had taken a nap cuz she was tired instead and that I could call her at home. All very nice and pleasant. I did call her later and we had are usual very nice and pleasant conversation. I expressed my concern that she wasnt feeling well and she was tired, like I always do. I mentioned that I had gotten my happy papers in the mail. She said that she had recieved something also but she hadn looked at it yet so she dosnt know what it is. I said I can tell you what it is. She is supposed to see me at work this sunday after I get back from Toledo to "talk".

All I can say is that is was a very pleasant conversation. There was the usual chit chat about her work and even some sexual innuendo and it was all very happy. I really did express my concern about her and how I hoped she would get some rest. I am such a fool. O yes I forgot to mention that in the new papers the joint custody thing has now been changed to sole custody for her. I can not understand this. There is no way I would ever treat her this way. I mean NEVER. So how could she? My life is going to take a very serious turn for the worse I think. I dont know whats going to happen to me. I do know that Im not looking forward to it. Im not sure if I can continue anymore. I know that I am not a perfect person. I know that I have made alot of mistakes in my life. But I am not a bad person, Im really not. I try to be good. And I know that I would NEVER do to STBX what she is doing to me

I dont want to end up hating this women but Im beginning to see the end here. And thats the way its looking. My God I was just thinking tonight about the birth of our son and what a hoot it was. I dont know why it popped up. But I remember and I think abou that time we went togehther.Im not usually the kind of person who thinks about those things but it just sprung into my mind for some reason. Plus you know how us men are, so insensitive. But it occured to me, after all this I still lopve this women in some way and I still care about her. WHY? I am really going to continue to have a hard time with this. And I am now going to have to seek legal counsel and becoma an adversary. I really hate this but it seems that I have no choice.
Sorry. Thanks for dropping by if you do
JIM

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 04/25/05 11:31 AM

Hello All. I hope you had a very good weekend.

Thank you for all your suggestions and comments. Now I just need to assimilate them into my own plans. Thank you all again.

Well talked to my lovely STBX on the phone again last night. She was feeling a little under the weather so I of course expressed my concern for her and her health and encouraged her to get as much rest as possible.She is supposed to come out to campus tonight after work so we can talk. Im at my regular job and then I leave here to work my part time one till midnight. Im incredibly nervous about tonight. The potential for great damage or great good is very high here I think. I need to seek some legal counsel too now which I should have done in the first place instead of being such a trusting fool with my non-communicative W. I have to make a decision soon about my intended demotion so I can have the occasional weekend off to spend with my kids or just for myself. I dont think I can afford to do that now with the financial sitch looking the way it is at this point. Wow what a HUGE monkey wrench.

So I intend to explain all of this to STBX in the hope that she will understand and relent at least on the credit card issue. I have two of my own I dont need hers too. I still have till the end of June before my past debt is payed off. I was really looking forward to that so that I might finally be able to start thinking about a place of my own. The loss of the money will be tough but the chance to actually have a life instead of being here all the time was a pleasant thought. Of course now it might end up being just that "a pleasant thought".

I still dont understand why she changed the custody decree. She allready has the children all of the time. I only get to see them the one evening that I dont have to work right now. I would like to be a part of thier lifes and Im trying to take some measures that will increase my involvment with the demotion. Somebody said that perhaps going for sole custody allows her to ask for more money. I really hate to think that that is her motivation.

I do plan on bringing up the fact that I too like the way things are between us right now and that I had hoped that we could have built a new and bettor R after the deserved death of our old one. By taking the best of what we had and leaving the worst in the past and incorperating some new ways for us to interact with each other. But I understand that that isnt going to happen. And I am sorry about that and for what I have done in the past to put us in the position that we are in.

Funny I still feel some affection for her. Whenever I hear her laugh on the phone it all starts to come back. Blagh, heh, heh. Ah well, Im hoping the detachment keeps up. Its been really slow and whenever I think Im out of the woods something comes up that says HA! no your not, LOL. I must say though I didnt think it would take this long and with the end still somewhat ahead of me. OK enough whining.

Take care all
JIM

Posted By: qoe100 Re: DB Boo boo - 04/25/05 02:32 PM

Jim,
I do think that since you gave her "everything" in the house and the cars, that she should pay her own credit card bill. You do, however, have the get the custody issue cleared up and also make sure there are provisions that she can't move away with the kids w/o your permission. This is a biggie. You may be able to get these changes done w/o getting another lawyer involved if W agrees to them.

I know you still love her and you've truly done everything you can so don't beat yourself up over this.

And.....the next time you leave your wallet in my room, I'm going to give it a good cleaning before I return it to you. Seriously, I'm so glad you found it.

Posted By: Libra Re: DB Boo boo - 04/25/05 05:21 PM

Hi Jim. I'm sorry to hear about the recent developments. I'm confused as to why she thinks that you have an obligation to her card. You know you don't have to agree to that.

And it must be hard for you over the custody issue. I'll bet that she's just taking advice from her lawyer who probably has the attitude 'ask for everything'.

Anyway, I'm with Jill. Try to work this out yourself. If you have to fight over custody, you will need your own attorney. And you certainly want to have a say in the decisions in their lives.

I wanted to drop by and say I'm glad that we had a chance to meet Saturday and I had a good time. Perhaps we can do it again soon.

Geneva

Posted By: qoe100 Re: DB Boo boo - 04/27/05 01:10 AM

Hey James!!!! Are you in there? Are you OK? Sure hope so....

Posted By: qoe100 Re: DB Boo boo - 04/27/05 06:48 PM

JAMESLUSCIOUS!!!! Don't make me come in there and get you!!!

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 04/29/05 05:11 AM

Hey Geneva! thankx for stopping by and yes I hope we can all get together again sometime. Mancys was awsome!

Well Jilly you allready know whats going on and I just wanted to say thank you for being there. Now your gonna have to add "heart of gold" to your allready long list of good qualitys. You are such a treasure and your X is the biggest idiot I'v never met.Thank you, thank you ,thank you! And I'll eat pizza with you at two a.m. anytime!

In case anybody is interested after missing yet another chance to talk I finally caught up with STBX tuesday night after my sons soccer practice. After we got the kids to bed we finally had our talk. I told her about not being able to accept the change in the decree about custody. She claimed to be unaware that it had been changed. I told her that I had no choice in the matter but to hire an attorney and go to court to fight this. I said that I had never wanted to be in this position and that I had always thought that we would be able to iron this out ourselves. She agreed that the custody change wasnt fair and that she would contact her lawyer and have that changed. I also brought up our difficulty's in communicating and she agreed that that was harder for her to do then me. I told her the reason I never brought up our sitch during the early times of our seperation was becuase I felt she needed the time to relax and lose some of her anger towards me. I also said that I knew if I tried to hard to approach her about it she would probably just resist and I would push her farther away. I also said that I knew that I could never look myself in the mirror and know that I had done my best for my marriage becuase it wasnt true. She agreed that that was true for her also and that she should have done bettor a long time ago and not clammed up so much. I also told her that I had hoped that over time that we would be able to start over again and begin a new R by taking the best of what we had and leaving the rest behind. She said that she felt that we needed to start from square one, from being friends again. I agreed but she said yes but you would like to do it without the divorce. I said yes. Boy there was a lot of other things too but Im having a hard time remembering it all. I remember now she said something about not being sure if we could live together.She also brought up a couple of very painful moments for her that I was stupidly ignorant of and I apoligised. And that I said something about wanting to keep doing what we are doing and going slow, that I wasnt interested in moving back in becuase I believed that that wouldnt work right now. Boy I wish I had one of those photographic memory's. Anyway at the end of the conversation I asked her if she would/could/ had? at least consider the possibility of postponing the D.Not canceling but just postponing. Sorry I dont remember exactly. She said yes. So she said she is going to try and contact her attorney the next day and talk to him. I asked her to call me when she did.

I work till 4 that afternoon. By three I hear nothing so I call her. She says I called him twice but he has not returned my calls. I said ok and I thanked her again for opening up to me and that I really appreciated it. She said something about we need to do it more often and I agreed. Just before I left from work she called and wanted to let me know before I did leave that she had still not heard anything from him. I thanked her for calling me and told her I appreciated it.
Went to STBX's place after work and spent time with kids. Decided not to go to my last class of the semester and just hang for a bit. We had dinner and played a game together with the kids. I sat down and wrote out two questions for her on a sheet of paper.

1.What things or change's would he have to do to make you trust or feel safe around him again?
2.What things or changes would have to occur before you would consider being open to the idea of having feelings torwards your husband again?

I told her before I left that I would like her to look at it and whenever and if she might feel comfortable talking about that I would wait and she could let me know. I told her I was gonna take off and let her relax. I also made a comment about how I appreciated the fact that she shared that painful moment with me and that I knew she wasnt trying to hurt me she was just being honest with me and letting me know something I needed to hear. She made some comment about it figures the day I dont have to work late the next day you dont spend the night. I believe thats whats she said. I thought that was odd. I asked her just before I left if she was serious about talking to her SCUMSUCKING lawyer (sorry) about a postponing of the D and she said yes.

Ok now its thursday night. Im at work, of course, and I have heard nothing from her. So I call and talk to her that night. I told her I just wanted to say hi and ask about her day. I also said that I wanted to mention a couple of things becuase sometimes if I dont say them when I think of them I might forget and then they might go unsaid.I mentioned that she made this comment about me spending the night. I told her that I had talked to a few women and they explained the being home at night thing to me. That it was more a comfort thing for them and that it was the feeling of "somebody being" there for them. She said yes now you know why I let the kids sleep with me so much. I said that yes I understood and that if you ever want me to stay over becuase you think that I might be able to help with the kids or something that would be fine. Or if you just want me to stay becuase it would make you feel safer or whatever that would be fine to. I just want you to know that I have no expectations. You allready know that you have an incredible body and that you are the best lover that I have ever had and how much I enjoy satisfying you.

STBX; Likewise.

Sorry I need to get up in the morn and watch my kids.
Please take care

and be your best

Thank You Jill

JIM

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 04/29/05 03:54 PM

On a slightly less then positive note it looks like I may have more competition for the affections of STBX. This guy at my sons soccer practice has been chatting up the wife since the end of last year. This year the trend has continued. His little D has taken to STBX and he just follows right along. A couple weeks ago they all went to Mickey D's after the thursday practice. My D asked me if I was gonna go with them next tuesday. Apparently they have made plans to go again. I said how its funny that this girls mom never comes to the practice and D said I think he said something to mommy about being D. Interesting that he still has a ring on. They had also talked about Cosi so maybe there is a trip being planned. Geez one small step forward and two big ones back. Life is funny, isnt it?

Jim

Posted By: Libra Re: DB Boo boo - 04/29/05 03:54 PM

Uh, you guys went out for pizza and I wasn't invited? I see how I rate. Uh, huh.

Anyway, WOW! What a couple days you've had. That's incredible to have that kind of talk. WOW!

I'm praying for you both that the D will be postponed. That's definitely a step in the right direction.

Geneva

Posted By: COG Re: DB Boo boo - 04/29/05 07:59 PM

Jim,

Wow! What a turn for the hopefull. To think she's willing to stop the D. That is a huge step. My W and I past through that decision about two years ago. I'm telling you that because it's been two years and we're still not living together. It seems like an eternity but we've built a wonderful friendship in the meantime and we keep inching closer to intimacy.

We both had to let go though, and I think you still need to let go. Like your W talking to the guy at soccer. I used to let that kind of stuff bother me too, and at our kids soccer games even. You've got to have a little more confidence in yourself and your W. She's not going to find anyone nicer or more loving than you. Now, I kind of chuckle when she's talking to another guy, even single guys, because I know I am much more mature, good looking, fun, friendly etc. etc. Also, my W lkes to socialize. We have to learn to accept that, and let them be the people they want to be. A lot of affairs start out as friendships, but that does'nt mean all friendships turn into affairs. Especially casual friendships. Go to dinner with them as your D asked, smile and be cordial. Your W will love you for it. Don't pry, or be selfish, just go there and enjoy the time with her and your kids. She'll notice the difference in you. Probably won't mention it, but she'll definately notice. Just like she's already noticed the changes in you. Otherwise, she would'nt be thinking about stopping the D.

Be brave, be strong, be humble.

COG

Posted By: qoe100 Re: DB Boo boo - 04/29/05 08:36 PM

Jim,
Thank you for all the sweet things you said about me. Geeze, if they weren't all true, I'd blush!!!

I agree with COG though, I do think you're overreacting to this guy at soccer and you need to stop. It is your insecurities that is making you feel that and it's not productive in any way. Also, you may want to back off a little about seeing her or talking to her every day. She may feel that your invading her space or trying to control her in some way. Stay calm and cool. And do go w/your family if they ask you and be super super nice to the guy. Make him think you're great and wonder wth's wrong with her that she'd let you go!!!

Geneva,
Have a great weekend in Chicago with H. Come back and give us all the juicy details, OK? Can't wait to hang out with you again.

Jill

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 04/30/05 04:09 AM

Thank you Geneva. Its so kind of you to think of me when you have your own problems to deal with. And I really appreciate your prayers. Hey I just thought of a name for our get together. The Geneva convention! Har! har! I slay me.

Cog; thanks again for your input. Yeah you mentioned changes and it jogged my memory about the big R talk that got this started. I remember now that at some point that came up and I asked her if she thought the changes were were real.

STBX; yes.
Me; Am I more like the person you wanted me to be?
STBX; yes

So I must be doing at least something right.

Your right though, I AM having a hard time letting go. And yes Jilly I am being insecure. I guess its just my reaction to the fact that I am in such a weak postion as far as the affections of STBX and that she is really beautiful. Yes affairs start with friendship and no not all friendships end in affairs. But the law of averages says that the more it happens the greater the chance that something might "click". And I realise that she is going to get plenty of chances. This is really tough for me. I have never been a jealous person, really. And now I am. And Im not sure how to handle it. Its not that Im anything special I just have never really experianced this feeling like this. I dont like it and it makes me feel like a very lesser person. I guess its just fear maybee?

Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Anyway today is friday. I went to watch the kids this morning cuz they had no school and SD wanted to go do something for a bit so when STBX asked me the other night I said sure. STBX came home for lunch (she works about 5 minutes from home now) and she vented a bit about work. I made her and the kids lunch and rubbed her back briefly while she ate. Before she left she gave us all a quick hug. When she left I followed her out to her car and asked her if she had heard from her attorney. She said no that he had not returned her calls. I mentioned the fact that we are running out of time and she said that if she has to she will not show up for the hearing becuase she "HAS" to be there. And if she do's not show up they will have to postpone.

Anyway STBX had a hard day at work. So before I went to work I asked D if there was a funny photo to give to mom. I told her that mom was having a hard day and that I wanted to give her something that would make her laugh.STBX made a comment about starting to PMS. When this Mommy PMS's its bad news. D picked out a good photo and after I left I dropped it off at STBX's work, with some papers she forgot to get signed.

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 04/30/05 12:57 PM

Well Im off to watch my S play soccer and the pardon me while I hit on your W traveling road show. Praying for a lot of strength and confidence today niether of which I feel.
Take care all!
JIM

Posted By: Steve4Family Re: DB Boo boo - 04/30/05 04:43 PM

Hey James. Ahh, buddy, there is much hope for you and your W.

It sounds like you both are in the healing process. The friendship stage is awesome. Such a relief. Sure, you rather have it be more than that, but just let it happen.

I also agree with not letting things get to you, like the soccer practice stuff. When I stopped doing this, things sure improved. I wrote about how my W will still say things like,"yeah, being a single mother, I still need to...". It use to really bug me. But now I just totally let it go. My W and I are now like close friends by letting go, not analyzing, being happy and confident and not stressed out, etc.

Come on now, you got a lot of positives to build off of. Don't pressure her too much. Your W obviously still cares and loves you. Let her see your changes through your words and not actions.

So many on the board know what a great guy you are. Your W sees that also.

I agree with the statement about not moving right back in together. I wouldn't with my W now if she asked me. Yeah, like you said, here and there, but we're not ready. The healing still needs to continue and the love totally take off again. The bitterness and hurt from the past needs to be totally forgiven. I could see moving back at the end of summer of something if things worked out.

Cherish the close friendship you have now. Your W is saying and doing things for much hope.

Things are also financially tight with me. My W use to get on me, but now she sees how hard I'm working and trying to help them out financially when I can. A big baby step and part of the healing process. Instead of nagging me, she knows how hard I'm trying and that things will be great in time.

Hang in there. Don't rush it or pressure her too much about non-important things. Have COGs attitude of knowing he's better than any other guy. Thanks to DBing, I also know what she has in me and it helps. Your W also sees it in you. She just needs time.

PS - wish my wife did some of the fun talk that yours does.

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 05/01/05 04:27 PM

Hey Steve. Yeah I understand. Its just a little tough to do thats all. I did see STBX at soccer yesterday. S scord another goal. Yay S! Ended up watching the kids before I went to work while she went shopping. Did NOT bring up R or question her about talking to her attorney. When she got back I helped her bring in the grocerys. Just before I went to work I had a pair of clothes in my hand that I had left from the last time I was there. I was gonna take them with me but then I stopped and said to her "I wonder if I should just leave these here just in case I ever need them" She said "yeah that would be a good idea" so I went inside and put them in my old dresser and then left for work. I hope this is the start of a trend for us. Didnt see them at church today of course and I havent heard from them at all. Funny we keep missing each other there. Gonna resist the urge to call.

Queennie; Why of course we know its all true. I think your solution to the trip with CWG was genuis. No obligations implied now and you get to go on a nice trip. Hurray for U!

Take care all!
JIM

Posted By: qoe100 Re: DB Boo boo - 05/01/05 04:35 PM

JamesLuscious!!!
Good Dbing in not bringing up the R or asking about the D. By George, I think you've got it!!! You have a lot of positives going, so just keep moving slowly (kind of like a sneak attack) and before long, maybe she'll let you bring your toothbrush over too?

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 05/05/05 01:40 PM

Well I guess a little update is necessary. Talked to W monday afterwatching the kids that day.She had spoken to her attorney and he had made the changes but supposedly she could not postpone the D. That the only way would be for her to not show for the final hearing. I just sat there and didnt say anything. W reached out and lightly stroked my back. I said that I was kind off afraid I was gonna hear that. So I asked her how much her lawyer cost her and she told me. I said if you had the money in your hand right now so that you could still file for D later if you wanted would you consider dismissing the case and she said yes. So I explained a proposel to her that I had thought off at one time when I was trying to come up with solutions to some of are issues, one of them being money. I said that this would enable her to have more control over the finamces and not have to worry so much about money. Also, that she would be able to take some of the cash and set it aside for her legal fees if necessary.

TUESDAY; D day. I had the day off so I told her I had planned on going to the hearing. She came home from work and I made her lunch. She had decided not to go to the hearing. We went looking for a shirt for her for work and rented some movies. While she watched the one I mostly puttered around the house doing laundry. Basically spent the day doing much of nothing. Did the soccer practice thing and then Micky D's playland with the kids and then went home. Trying to find out for sure whathas really happened from the courts but they have nothing yet. They said I could always call her attorny so Im waiting to see if he will call me back.
Take care all!

JIM

Posted By: Libra Re: DB Boo boo - 05/05/05 01:45 PM

Hi Jim - I'm surprised that the lawyer couldn't just pull the case. That seems odd. Anyway, it really does sound like your W is softening and ready to consider working on the M. Woohoo!!!

It's me, geneva. Visit my thread for an update.

My prayers are with you.

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 05/05/05 01:47 PM

Yes I thought that was odd too. Im really nervous about this whole thing of course. I just have to know whats going on. The rollercoaster continues!
JIM

Posted By: qoe100 Re: DB Boo boo - 05/05/05 01:49 PM

Way to go Jim!!!

Geneva, why the alias?

Posted By: JRB Re: DB Boo boo - 05/05/05 09:34 PM

Great news on the dismissal / delay, Jim!

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 05/06/05 03:48 AM

Ok the D is still on. I guess when my W didnt show, the attorney had it adjourned for next tuesday. Guess I should still call her STBX. The suspense continues.
JIM

Posted By: BethM Re: DB Boo boo - 05/06/05 04:34 AM

(((((((((Hey Jimbo))))))))),

I know that this must be very painful for you. You need to think about the facts though. Even if this woman doesn't show and go through with this divorce, do you think it's possible that she could do the work to once again make you feel secure in your marriage.

There is a lot of water under that bridge and possibly still a troll! What do you think? I would hate to see you settle just because you are an honorable man.........

Love,
Bethie

Posted By: Libra Re: DB Boo boo - 05/06/05 01:40 PM

Hey Jim. I don't get it. It sounds like there's a missing piece of info somewhere. If she talked to her L about stopping the D and he said there was no way unless she didn't show up, then she didn't show up and he rescheduled the date? I'm sorry, but it's not adding up.

I know that doesn't help. I'm sorry. Can you and your W speak to her L together?

Posted By: COG Re: DB Boo boo - 05/06/05 03:00 PM

Jim,

It aint over till it's over. I say you let go. Let your W work it out. Stay out of it. She's the one that pushed for this D, now let her sort it out. If she goes ahead with it then you have to accept that. If you keep pressing her for answers and decisions then I think you might distract her from facing herself in this. This is not about YOU. It's about her facing her own decisions. Leave her alone and let her and her !@&#$ L work it out.

Rest in God's hands,

COG

Posted By: tja Re: DB Boo boo - 05/07/05 12:55 AM

James,

Damn, this doesn't sound like any fun at all!!....

I know that recently when I discussed with my counselor what would happen if my (not soon enough) STBX were to decide to want to recomcille at the 11th hour, and I decided that my answer would be "no, you still have (lots of personal growth) work to do". As my counselor observed "you can always remarry (with a pre-nup)"....

Good luck man!

Tom

Posted By: Steve4Family Re: DB Boo boo - 05/07/05 10:39 PM

Hey James. Renting movies, clothes shopping, back rubs, making lunch,.... it sure sounds like your W is really coming around.

I think she was really impressed with your goal setting too. Regarding finances, stress off of her, etc.

I'm happy for ya buddy. I know that things are still in Limbo, but when this marathon is over, I think you two will be together. One way or another!

Prayers are with you. Hope this week goes really well for both of you!

Posted By: JamesL Re: DB Boo boo - 05/08/05 03:18 PM

Well today is mothers day. I went over to STBX's house and she was up. I told her she is not supposed to be awake and we went in the bedroom. She pulled something in her back and I gave her a brief back rub to try and work that out. I also drew her a nice calgon bath so she could relax more.
Got a nice peek and I got a little fresh I must say but she nixed that.
Got the kids up and I made breakfast. Scrambled eggs, sausage links and pancakes. They all had breakfast in bed with mom. Did most of the dishes that I dirtied and that were in the sink allready. They were out of milk so I left and picked some up and got the moms day card for her that I forgot to get. I like funny cards so that is what I got to hopefully make her laugh. I wrote; You do so much for are kids. somebody see's that and appreciate's it. Thank you.
JIM

After that I did the hugs and kiss's with the kids. STBX seemed annoyed. She had just got into it with my SD and she was having trouble, of course with S. I think she was also hoping that I would stay so she could go tan. D said are you leaving? and I explained that my time is very limited, which it is, and I had to go.

So I had read some things about forgiveness and a couple that had eventually regretted there D and how they had used this tool to open up the lines of communication between them. I wanted to talk to STBX briefly about it but she was to busy dealing with S so I let it go. I left everything on her bed and split.

I know this is not good DB. But one of our worst problems has always been talking. And I'm tired of not knowing what is going on. Im tired of not being able to talk. I know that this is a HUGE problem in any R, but it MUST be delt with.
So mabye I have failed at DB, but I cant go on not being able to talk about my problems with someone who care's. Thats part of being a couple.
There is more but I need to take a nap. Gotta work tonight, of course.
I will try to respond to you all when I can.
Take care
JIM

B GOOD! B SAFE! B WELL!

Hey JRB; It was something on Msn.com. There were a couple of articles under the R section.

Well I have been thinking a lot about what a couple of good women friends have said to me. One quote was "love shouldn't be this hard".

I guess that and everything else has started to sink in finally. Went to S's soccer game and of course we sat next to soccer dad (SD). I guess his wife couldnt make it becuase of school. So he is married. There is a definite friendship developing here. W spent more time talking to him then me. I felt kind of like a third wheel. At one point he had to answer his cell for like the 4th time for work and he hung it up and put it on my W's thigh and said "take this thing". There was also a little playing around and before he left he touched her on the shoulder and wished her a happy mothers day. They also discussed going to a local lodge with their family's on vacation this year. I dont know what the heck is going on here if anything but it is way to cosy and I think this touching thing is telling. All I could do was think that "gosh I wish she was being that way with me".

Im beginning to feel a little more comfortable with my D. I don't want it and I dont think it HAS to happen, but I cant see any other solution. MY W reminds me of myself in a lot of ways both good and bad and I dont know if or when she might resolve this issue about communication. I guess that would be the troll under the bridge ( thanks Bethie).

I know that she is outgoing and may not think anything of it but I dont like it and I think as a married man he is being way to friendly. Either that or she is just stupid. Sorry thats just how I feel.

Anyway after talking to a couple of close women friends and after watching that on saturday I have begun to think of an alternative life. I hate my life the way it is. I did REALLY love my W. Deeply, and I will miss her, and I will think about her for a long time to come yet. I really did want to try and make this work out. I still think if we had put our minds together and tried we could have worked this out. But I dont think that is going to happen.

I must admit I have had a few women express interest in me and I have been flattered. Geez one of them is at least half my age, heh, heh. One of them is someone I know from work. She is going through the end of her last R right now too. We have never gotten along before this but at one point she just opened up to me and I have tried to be there to listen for her. I know this is NOT a good time for either of this and we are discussing the issue seriously. But there is a definite interest and I am feeling very confused and unhappy with what is happening in my life right now.

I wish so much that there was a way to turn back the clock and try and repair what has happened before it started. But Im beginning to think that, like most of us, it has become to late. I know, it's never to late until you say it is, but like so many it takes two to tango.

I dont want to embark on this new journey in my life. I know that you "old timers" know what I am saying. I know its not the "manly" thing to do but when I think of what has happened and where I am going without STBX I feel such a deep sorrow and I cry. A lot.

Thank you all for responding to my pathetic wanderings. Hey one day I think I'll actually learn something, LOL!
Take care and may God bless each and everyone of you.
I'll try and respond individually a.s.a.p.

B Good! B Safe ! B Well!

James I know it really sucks, and the pain is incredible, but you will survive! I've told my kids if I could have one wish, it would be to have the family back together in one piece HAPPY!! As you say it takes two. but I also realize it would never work, my X was just not capable of giving me what I needed and deserved in a R, and I'm better off now and so are the kids!
Love should not hurt, R's are hard work and require effort from both parties but they shouldn't be painfull, they should be a mutual admiration thing.
Sounds like your X wants to keep all her options open and that my friend you do not deserve, as a matter of fact what I've read on your thread she doesn't deserve YOU!!!
Take care stay strong. C.

"I would hate to see you settle just because you are an honorable man........."

Thanks Bethie, but Im afraid you are giving me far more credit then I deserve.

Thanks again and take care!
JIM

Hey Jimbo...............

If you think it seems weird and makes you uncomfortable, whatever it is, go with your gut. You are probably right!

They say that communication or lack there of is the #1 reason that people grow apart. I can believe that. Do you think in your heart that your wife is capable of communicating with you? Or do you think that maybe the real problem is that she just doesn't want to? Both of those can be remedied if the person wants them to be. I just don't want to see you getting the short end of the stick.

You questioned the fact that I called you "an honorable man". You are honorable. I'm sure you made mistakes and even did things that in retrospect you wish you could take back, we all have. You however were willing to stick it out and honor your promises. You continue to be kind and hopeful. More than any of those things, you sound like a great Dad!

Please don't sell yourself short. We here all see it and we love you for the person that you are.

Love,
Bethie

Good morning all. It is 3:30 and I cant sleep. Got to bed relatively early. Good thing , heh, heh. Today is the day.
Today I will know where I really stand as if Im not afraid I allready know. Not much else to say.
I hope Im wrong.
Take care all
JIM

Good luck Jim either way you'll survive!! C.

Hey James what's happening how are things going? C.

Thanks, Tja, Jilly Beth, Cog, Jrb, Spit, steve, and Libra. Pheww did I leave anyone out?

Well I dont know whats going on with the court and neither do they it seems. I guess one of two things is gonna happen., either Im gonna get re-served with the new and improved papers or they are not gonna set date and let it expire maybe? Or her attorney still could file a motion to dismiss . Who knows?

I was gonna attempt to discuss this with stbx last night after soccer practice. While I watched my S at practice her and soccer dad played at the playground with thier kids and talked I guess. Then when we left she mentioned that they were gonna go to mickey d's playland and that they could drop me off on the way if I didnt want to go. We ended up stopping at her house for a potty break as it was on the way. She was told that she was supposed to cut her grass that day and said she would give me half of the twenty I gave her the other day if I would do it. I said "you can get me to do it for free, heh, heh". She said " thats true". So I went next door and borrowed a lawn mower. She came out and said they were gonna go and that they would only be gone a half hour. I guess I didnt think of the time cuz I was still planning on going but it was late I guess so I said ok. I cut the grass and then grabbed a bite to eat while I waited. After about 40 minutes I left cuz I had locked myself out. I drove to where they were and sat and smoked a bit. After 10 more minutes I finally left and went to a friends house. i have no idea what time they got home. The next morning on my way to work she called and said she wanted to apoligise becuase she felt that that had been rude. I said " well I agree and it really hurt my feelings too. But I thanked her for calling and said I appreciated it. Then she had to run to get the kids off to school. I called her later and left a message to call when it was conveniant for her which she did. I again thanked her for her courtesy in calling me and said "I know it hard for you to talk about things so I reall do appreciate when you do those things. I just wanted you to understand I wasnt trying to be rude but i just wanted to make sure you understood what i meant by what I said. She said she understood and thanked me. i told her "I think that you and me are a lot more alike then you might think and that one of those things is talking about our feelings. Its still a little hard and uncomfortable for me but I push my self becuase I know I have to". I also said that I would really like to have a talk with her sometime and that she could even call me if she wanted to. She asked if I was working both jobs tonight and I said "yes". I really dont think she will call as she dosnt like talking serious over the phone at all.

Well thats about it for now. The drama continues. Thank you all again for stopping in and I hope all is well with you!

Jim

Jim,

Rest in the good hands of Jesus. Your M is in turmoil no doubt. That is the perfect place to find God. Try to stand back like an disinterested third party and see how God is working here. You have to look though, His works just may not jump out at you.

I find it very interesting how your D just keeps getting put off. I wonder why? Is it just chance, or is a higher power at work here.

I suggest you keep on going with the flow. Don't sweat it if she does'nt invite you to Mickey D's, or if she's late. Contrary to what someone else advised you, try to keep your feelings out of this. Try to think logically, not emotionally. Don't let on about your hurt feelings, it's not very attractive. You had better things to do anyway, right? You have a life. A little intrigue will be attractive to her.

This is not all about YOU Jim! Your W has to learn a few things and regain some of the power in positive ways. She gained control in a negative way with the D. Allow her power over her life and your R. Like the soccer dad. Let that be. Stay calm and reserved. Soccer season will be over soon and you won't have to deal with it anymore. Trust her. If she burns you, then deal with that when and if it happens. Until then, let go of the fear and anxiety, walk with courage, trust, and faith. Smile more, laugh more, and be you.

It may take a few more YEARS to fix your R. So what? My W and I just celebrated 3 years of separation, but we also celebrated the beautiful friendship that we've made over the 3 years. She calls us best friends. Two years ago we were barely "just friends". It's baby steps brother, one day at a time. I'm glad I've stuck it out this long. I'm a much better man because of it.

It may be the 4th quarter, but there's still more time on the clock. Run the right plays, you win, run the wrong ones, you loose.

Trust your coach, JC!

COG

Ok James - here's the ground rules and I know you've gotten to know me enough to know it's not ego - just facts so there's no BS to get in the way.

When I get to know enough about someone's sitch I tend to do a stream of conciousness thing and it's one of those - if it works take it and if it doesn't leave it things. It's just one person's opinion right?

Ok - so here goes.

You two have always thrived on drama. You're a late bloomer. She's substantially younger. She may be a late bloomer too. What's it worth to you?

Don't say anything is bad DB. Bad DB is just continuing to do that which does not work. Period. That's it. DB WORKS! What the seasoned among us learned is the real question is - is it really worth it to us? Well James - is it?

I think you are totally doing the right thing - your instincts are very very good! But I would also see what happens tomorrow (tomorrow right?) and then - dependent on what happens - get you an attorney! STAT! You can explain to her that you are still where you are but that you realize your need to protect yourself legally since she can't get her atty to respect her wishes. I understand that may be a basic tennant on your DBing stragegy, and it may serve you well. But - I'll also say that I've been learning that atty's here are just basically our own amplified voices. Almost makes me want to get a degree of my own! Sometimes I think my atty is working for the opposition. And I'M the woman/mother/abandoned one.

Remember - Love is love and DB is DB. And you have GOT keep them separated! If it's meant and it's real - then anything you do isn't going to matter. And if it's not, nothing will.

I don't know what Michigan law is so I can't say if that stuff sounds fishy or not. I am still learning what Indiana law is and man - I for one say, let's get rid of the no-fault divorce! Cause there are things I just thought were that I've learned aren't. And according to Beau, I've got a cakewalk.

A thought - do you think your wife is DBing you unawares? Playing to the old you? So this og she's developing a R with (and yes, she is) is maybe something she's using to draw you back? Think like you WERE here. It's hard, I know, but do it.

I'll tell you from extreme experience: If you're done you're just done. And you do everything in your power to make sure EVERYONE knows that. If you're not, you make sure there's always a ball in play.

Or is she one of those who doesn't want to be alone at all costs type? You know. But with all the time invested with you - she loves you man. You know it. She knows it. Everyone knows it. The real question is - is she willing to grow and become the woman you need? Is she ready to settle down yet? Cause I think she settled down before she was ready. Yeah, us chicks are guilty of that too.

I'd go for the first scenerio myself. I think she really loves you. But that she's really still stuck where she was. Which kindof plays in with what I was saying in the second. Please keep remembering what that was like and think about weather that's what you want out of life or if it's worth waiting a little longer.

I can't tell you where to go there. It's all different. I guess I can only say to err on the side of caution. As you know, I still remember why I married that guy. But I also know why it's imparative that I never have anything to do with him again. Ever. And that's after 25 years...and I'm only 37...And that math doesn't add up to show that I was younger than that when I decided he was "the one".

So I guess I summarize - You're older and more advanced than I am. What is your gut telling you? Honestly? You have absolutely nothing to lose here. You can even always decide to change your stance.

I'll tell you what I think. I think she still loves you. But that you'd better play this smart or lose big. You can do that. Don't let her bully you. Be the MAN. You can still make it after the D. Just you may find that it's not in your best interest. Or maybe it is. For yours and the kids sake - what's it worth?

You are a big hit amongst the ladies who know from experience what a real cad is. But you also have guy friends here. That says a lot for you. Plus, you're my friend and I'm the hybrid girl/guy type

. I guess what I'm saying is - don't stop growing. But understand that you have some serious worth to you. Don't sell out to the lowest bidder.

I'll keep praying for you and your situation. Keep going. I've been really learning that God does have good plans for us that love Him - even in these messy situaitions. He knows it all. Take care and many Godly wishes for tomorrow. I'll keep checking in when I can for now cause I really want to know how things are for you.

Many hugs - me.

Im at my second job so I need to make this quick.
One question which has been coming up consistently has been, "is it worth it"?

I would have to say yes. First, to be able to keep my family intact and second becuase if I could bring my M back to the point were it was good again and in some case's even bettor it would all be worth it.

No it will not be easy no matter what. And yes the idea of trying and failing again is scary. But I believe I have to try.The best of my M is worth it and I believe so is my W. I have been in other R's that have failed and have learned little. But this is different. I am tired of allowing things to happen to me. From now on I my must try to make things happen. I just cant sit by and watch my M drift away. And I beleive that I also have good reasons not to want to.

I am not perfect (news flash), and niether is my W. But there is enough good in us both and our R that somebody has to make a stand and try to DO SOMETHING!

I hope you can understand. Gotta run. But I thank you all again for your time and input. Gonna try and respond to some posts tonight when I get home. Some interesting comments have been made and thoughts provoked. It will be late as I work till midnight tonight.

Take care all and thnx again!

JIM

Hey Jimbo............

Seeing I don't know your wife, and really only worrying about your feelings, I gave the advice that I did. If you feel this strongly than go for it. You're a smart guy and you love her, hopefully she will realize that she can never do better than that.

You are so right. We owe our children a family. When the time comes for people to give up they know it. Something just clicks. I know that you feel that there is still something there to salvage.

When you need to talk, you have so many good friends here that are more than happy to listen. Ask and you shall receive! Hey I'm never doing anything.

We would love nothing better than to see someone (especially someone as cool as you) have a happy ending!

We love you man..............

Bethie

Pssssst keep this on the QT, Please don't leave me alone with qoe!

Cog; I must admit my faith is still not strong. I have been as far from that as you can go for a great part of my life. I try not to see Gods hand in everything becuase I worry about creating my own reality, yah know? However I must also admit that some things that have happened in my life have made me finally stop and wonder and that is why I am where I am today. I have to know now and that is why I will continue to seek as long as I must.

"I suggest you keep on going with the flow. Don't sweat it if she does'nt invite you to Mickey D's, or if she's late. Contrary to what someone else advised you, try to keep your feelings out of this. Try to think logically, not emotionally. Don't let on about your hurt feelings, it's not very attractive. You had better things to do anyway, right? You have a life. A little intrigue will be attractive to her."

Perhaps so, but knowing and doing are two different things. Im not making excuses just being honest. And the fact that she seems more interested in spending time with Mr.SD more then me do's hurt. I want to be the one she feels playfull with. I didnt tell her this of course but its there.

"This is not all about YOU Jim! Your W has to learn a few things and regain some of the power in positive ways. She gained control in a negative way with the D. Allow her power over her life and your R."

Well now here is where I must disagree somewhat. Obviously this IS about me, partially and only to a point of course. I helped to create this situation so it will always be about me to an extant. We all have our parts to play in our own personal drama. However I must agree that right now it is all about her. Im sure she is having fun. Right now its all about freedom. The freedom to do what you want and see who you want with nobody to answer to. So as I see it she allready has complete power over her life. And just becuase the season has ended dosnt mean the season ends, yah know?

Yes you are right. I know in my heart that it will take some years to fix this if it can be done. And yes somehow I must become the most intelligent, sensitive, caring, loving, funny , witty, confident, supportive, understanding, and dependable man that I can. Boy did I miss anything? But Im willing to try. And I hope I manage. But at the same time I have to find a way to to lift my W up and bring her to the same understanding that I think I have. And I think that is my biggest problem. So this is going to be an incredible challenge. But I need to try. I cant walk away and just give up.

I know that we can all "move on" with our lives and eventually find someone else to share it with. I have no doubt. It just means we have managed to cope and perhaps have learned something along the way. I guess what I am trying to say is I wish I had been a lot bettor and a lot smarter before. It dosnt mean we always win. Its just that I would like the odds stacked more in our favor. For all of us, in sickness and in health, till death do us part.
Amen

Phoe; Thank you for now. Its gotta be nighty nite for me. Will get back to U soonest. (((((( hugs))))))