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We are moving forward on this journey together

Posted By: joejoe1

We are moving forward on this journey together - 02/20/18 09:00 AM

My W and I are working hard on our M. We have been to counseling and have more to go too. We are learning to communicate our problems better. We have look to going to Rville or EMS weekend in Austin.

She is putting in the work to help repair the damage.

I must admit, this is hard. I have broke down crying a few times in the last two weeks, because I wanted to just throw my hands up and give up. I wanted a divorce in my head and not my heart. It hurt so much thinking about leaving my boys. I shed those tears in front my W. She wants and feel this M is going to work. She has faith in us but the pain some days are huge.

She also broke down crying to me one day after a talk we were having and told me that she wakes up every moring with guilt and shame, she was shaking and hyper ventilating. And she told me she wanted to walk in front a bus. I coukd see the struggle she was going thru.

This process can't be rushed and there's no short cuts. We have decided to walk thru it together. I'm joyful on one hand and scared on the other.

The thougths of the A have lessen. And we are smiling and making each other laugh more.

I thought about posting in the recon thread but it's not very active and I think my post will help more people here. I go there looking for advice, but I talk to holding and he convince me I should post more to help others and possibly get some more help.

I also do counseling by myself. My counselor told me something the other day that stuck with me. I told him I'm have a hard time with the A and wanting to stay. I told him one of the things I'm having a hard time with is how my W told me she thought she was in love with OM and how she cut it off. He asked me a few questions and one of those questions was, how did you treat your W before the A, and I once again had to remind myself I treated her like crap. I told him I wont take responsibility for the A. He told me, what if the only way for my W to live with the guilt she had was to tell herself she was in love with the OM. Is that a possibility. I told him yes that is. My W told me multiple times that she thought she was in love with the OM because I how she felt about me.(Im putting this here because, the fantasy is full of false emotions). So we have to get out the way as LBS and let them go, so those false emotion is hit with reality. My W also told me she knew that a relationship with the OM wasnt going to last.

For V day my W bought me a new silicon wedding band. I told I wasnt wearing another one until she bought it.

I hope this help!!!!! I want to put this here so when others start recon and repair they have a place to have an idea of what to expect.

Only hard work ahead.

I wish this thread got more traffic!!!!

Onward and forward
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 03/01/18 03:55 AM

I hate seeing all the pain, destruction, and trauma caused by WS and WAS. I dream and wonder howo you all look and how wonderful people you all are. I wish you all well.

I must admit, that info on recon is not huge. Also, finding people who can relate is hard.

And I hope you all make it to recon. I pray you all do. As AS say mostly all LBS usually get their chance to DECIDE to be back with their S.

My W has found peace on her end IMO. I have been struggling more. I'm always in fix it mode.

I'm always flooding or having remainders. I wasnt prepared for having her back. I was prepared for all the intense emotions.

Today I have decided to let go of expectations, live in the present and enjoy what the Lords has given me. I'm really being hard on myself.

What's also profound to me is when I was DBing I had a better wrap on my emotions and now I have lost control Of them some. I can concentrate better now, but I do get lost in reminders. I really hope I can start to move pass these thoughts ( I know I can).

I think putting this info here, helps to prepare people for what I wasn't prepared for.

My W is a wonderful woman. But that dont make what she did any easier to deal with.

Last weekend we made love twice in one day and almost went for a third time, but the kids came beckoning.

My 1 year old is crawling all over me at the moment, and I would hate to have to miss a second of this.

Healing takes time. Love is a choice and recon is no less easier than DB. DBers keep up the hard work, "do what works" as Sandi says. And dont forget to love yourselves.

Feed the good wolf
Onward and forward
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 03/19/18 08:42 AM

Update:

Last week I went on a work trip. Most of the trip I did good. The last two days I start to spiral a little and I let some bad thoughts take control. I work through them best as possible. I returned home on Friday evening, W took the kids to Houston for spring break and returned home on Saturday. I informed her on Saturday I was having some of those thoughts and she brought up some good points. In her comments, she use the word, "betrayal", which caught me by surprise. Later on we were sitting by each other and I asked her to go to Youtube so we can learn how to do something and in her search, I see she has been watching videos on how to help to betrayed get past infidelity.

I asked her a few weeks ago to watch those videos, to start to help her understand what I was going thru. She wasn't going to inform me that she was watching them, but when I noticed her vocab changing, I start feeling better.

Yesterday, we made love 3 times. She told me "I love you", an endless amount of times. She informed me she wants to renew our vowels and get matching tatts. So the journey continues.

I provided this update because there isn't much in piecing.

Some advice, I want to give is, be patient with your W, be patient with your Kids, be patient with this process, be patient with yourself, and be patient with patience.

Take your time and let the healing and process work, I'm a very impatient person, but as I work thru this, I now understand that expectations need to be monitored and quilled. Love yourself so you can love others.

The process don't end when reconciling begins, a new process just begins.

Keep you'll heads up LBS's. I can't think the Sandi's and 25's, and AS enough for the advice and the J9, holding, Jim1234 and all the others for the support. What a GOD sent this place is.

I'm living proof that if you use the advice given here, you will be given the best chance at healing your M. And, i'm no different from any other LBS that has came here.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 03/19/18 01:57 PM

Keep posting and keep at this, JoeJoe.

It's hard work and that's why I always shake my head when someone sees so much "evidence" of a change of heart in 2 days of "no fighting".

You are encountering the reality of marital repair and as long as you remember the part you played in how you got here and she sees your work, you can show her that the marriage is worth the effort.

One thing, any WAS who returns can't have their mistake held over their head or shoves it in their face, when the reality is that their spouse played a role in how unfilled their love tanks are.

I do NOT say this^^ to every LBS. Just so you know.

But I'm so impressed with your accountability and your wife's, that I really do have hope for you guys reconciling, and piecing, and restoring your marriage. To me, it's sort of a 3 step process.

Keep at it!
Posted By: mtb1981

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 03/20/18 06:35 AM

Glad to hear you're doing well, joejoe. My W has recently moved back in and has agreed to MC, but I have no expectations. Just gonna take things slow and monitor progress...
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 03/21/18 07:44 AM

25,

Thanks so much for all the help and stern information. You gave me your candid perspective on what kind of husband I was and how I made my W feel. You help quill my expectations. What are the three steps?

You are right, about not holding what she did over her head. I asked the same questions over and over and over. Now I'm starting to move on from those questions.

MTB,

Please, please, please, take it slow. You are going to have so many ups and downs. Get prepared for it now. Life has no definite outcomes but death. So dont put expectations on yourself or your W. Learn to become a safe place. You will want to know things and you are going to want her to be honest, understand, that some of the answers will hurt, but you have to let her provide you with the truth, without you becoming, angry, cold, or mean. The more she sees she can talk to you about how she feels, the more she will open up and the more she will be open to answer any question you ask.

The above dynamic helps you and your W become best friends. You will know her shame, her guilt, her pain and deepest hurt. Don't take knowing those things for granted. Even thou it hurts you, it helps her, and in turn, she will also learn the same about you.

Stay confident as much as you can. I walked thru some pity for a while, try your hardest to push past and thru those times. Keep the pressure off and keep your head up.
Posted By: mtb1981

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 03/22/18 05:05 AM

Thanks, joejoe

I understand exactly what you are saying. Like I said, I have no expectations and I want to take it slow. I'm happy to have her back home and have the opportunity to fix things. I have become a much better listener and do my best to validate her. I want her to feel comfortable talking to me. That was a big issue with us in the past. I was very critical and usually said something that would upset her (even though that was not my intention). I ask myself often if what I'm going to say will be beneficial to healing our relationship and making my W feel comfortable opening up to me, and I've caught myself many times. I told her that the love between us is there, and that we need to feed it. I also told her I only needed 3 things from her: honesty, respect, and loyalty, and that I plan on giving her the same. With that and taking it slow, things will slowly fall into place and each day will be a little better than the last...
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 03/22/18 11:08 PM

MT,

You got it. Take it slow! Impatient will kill momentum. So learning patient is a part of growing and improving. Learning patient takes practice and effort.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 04/16/18 01:35 AM

joejoe, thanks so much for posting this. I feel like my wife and are moving towards piecing, but I am having many of the same emotions that you are. Last week (or the week before) I really started thinking about just telling her I was giving up and moving on to D. This would have crushed her. She has started to turn around since mid-Feb and want to work on the MR and heal things.

But I get frustrated because things are moving fast enough. Or as you mentioned what happened on your trip I will start spiraling when we are apart as I wonder what she is up to.

She continues to assure me she is doing nothing wrong, but I keep thinking about the "Believe nothing they say.....". Even when i was snooping and monitoring that she was engaged in messaging the OM, she was telling me nothing was going on, they are just friends. Etc.

Anyway, thanks it is nice to see others having the same thoughts and feelings that I am.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 04/17/18 02:00 PM

Steve,

Yeah the triggers, reminders, and spirals are horrible. I have focused on finding ways to work thru those thoughts. I also let my W know when some big ones hit.

We are doing good. But I have a hard time saying it will last. My W feels like we will be ok. I'm constantly improving myself, that's my mission. I want a better M.

Here's the thing, sooner or later we as LBS have to start to trust again for the M to grow, the problem we run into is when to drop our guard, because we don't want to ever feel that pain and misery we felt on BD. The other thing we must realize as LBS is it's not our S job to heal us its our own, and if you are like me, I was trying to make my W heal me. She has to focus on healing herself. Once we let go of being the fixer ibthink the M grows, if we hold on to that card of I can't trust you our M and growth will stagnate.

So I'm figure out now how to drop my guard and trust again. I figure out how to let go of the control of fixing and allow the work to happen.

I wish this thread had more activity.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 04/18/18 02:37 AM

joejoe, I think I gave up on the fixing a while ago. Really started about 3 days after bomb day when I found some excellent advice about letting her go, not trying to fix her, etc.

Now that doesn't mean it came easy. In fact, it was really hard. I always jumped in to fix things for her. Catching myself trying to jump in and fix things for her was difficult. But I started trying. I consciously stopped nagging her, that was really the start. And an interesting thing has started happening. She is starting to realize she needs to step up for herself.

That is important because on bomb day and for a few days afterward she would say how she "lost herself". How she didn't even know if she could pay bills, grocery shop, etc.

One of the other changes I put in was to get her to take grocery shopping back over from me. It is hard because I tend to be frugal and she tends to be "I might use this sometime in the next 6 months so I'll buy it." The first couple of times she went grocery shopping she way overspent. It isn't that we can't afford it, because we can, it is more can we eat all of this before it goes bad, expires, etc.

But I don't try to fix it. I just let her figure it out. She has to try and fix things herself. I can't rescue her because she never learns, loses identity, and starts looking for other unhealthy outlets.

joejoe, we should keep this thread going! I think we can be great support for one another.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 04/18/18 03:40 AM

Steve,

I don't mind. I was really hoping that this thread takes off one day.

Today, I'm being hit with images.

I also keep getting this feeling of going home and just ending this whole thing. I want to move on. I made my mistakes and she made hers. She is a good woman, but sometimes I feel like the damage is too much. I hope these feelings flee.

I take it one day at a time.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 04/19/18 04:14 AM

Originally Posted By: joejoe1
Steve,

I don't mind. I was really hoping that this thread takes off one day.

Today, I'm being hit with images.

I also keep getting this feeling of going home and just ending this whole thing. I want to move on. I made my mistakes and she made hers. She is a good woman, but sometimes I feel like the damage is too much. I hope these feelings flee.

I take it one day at a time.


I went through the same thing a couple of weeks ago. It is almost as if once we start to get what we want, we start to questing whether we really want it or not. From what I was told, that is normal. That once it feels like you are in R, or moving toward R, you will question if that is right. I think we get so into "winning" (winning as in not losing our Ws) that we never stop to ask if winning really means that.

I also have the problem that this is our second go around. The first time she had an EA was in 2005. That one was actually much worse emotionally, even though she immediately said she wanted to stay in the MR and fix it. This time was different in that she was saying she wanted a D right away.

But sometimes I wonder, am I just setting myself up for this happening again in the future? I mean, it was 12 years between these, in 5-12 years will we be back to this place again?
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 04/19/18 03:06 PM

Will I be here again is the question I ask myself all the time. But only GOD knows that answer and I will leave the future and predictions up to him.

Marriage is not easy and there is no right answer to how to fix it.

If GOD has given my W and I another chance I will be grateful for what he has provided me.

We all have choices and decisions to make. This site has given me tools to fix/work on myself and M. This site has given me tools to know how to handle infidelity from my W or myself.

Know I must take heed to everything I mentioned above and keep moving forward.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 04/25/18 05:48 AM

joejoe, agreed. However, I think that it is natural to have these kind of questions. Or wondering. Or whatever. You are right. Marriage is hard. However, God doesn't decide whether or not you and your W get another chance. Because of free-will you and her decide that. God hate divorce, his will is that marriage is lifelong and in fact only allows for it in the case of adultery. Even with adultery it is still a choice by the faithful spouse whether or not to end the marriage.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 04/28/18 02:28 PM

Steve,

I agree. The strength in these Sitchs are the LBS. They are the true strong ones. They ultimately end up deciding on the faith of the R.

The LBS takes a deep self reflection evaluation and they begin to work on their faults, while standing for the M. And if they WW or WAS decides to come back, they work on forgiving and forgetting.

It takes a strong individual to get thru that type of fire and come out the other side stronger and smarter.

My hat always is tipped the LBS on this site. They show strength so strong it's hard to phantom at all. And I know everyone around probably wonder how in the hell did they get to where they are.

Shots in the air for the LBS.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 05/03/18 02:18 AM

joejoe, how's it going?

Last MC session was dominated by my daughter's current issues. A lot of it is typical 14 year-old stuff, but it just so out of character for her that her mother and I are having trouble dealing with it. But as the MC pointed out, it is much easier to deal with it with our MR in a healthier state than it was prior to March. God works in mysterious ways!
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 05/09/18 04:01 PM

Steve,

It's going good. Working hard to stay optimistic. I'm in AZ for 44 days. Wife is planning on flying oit to visit and see my graduation. We were are also talking about a trip to Jamaica.

The boys are doing good.

I'm working on my trust. My W constantly assures me that she is not going anywhere which is nice, especially when I start to spiral.

Taking it a day at a time.
Posted By: bluesun

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 05/21/18 03:38 PM

It was 6 years between my H's BDs. Nothing seems to surprise me anymore.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 05/29/18 12:18 PM

Bluesun,

What do you mean by 6 years between BD? Are you and your husband recon?
Posted By: Steve85

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 06/07/18 05:49 AM

Originally Posted By: joejoe1
Bluesun,

What do you mean by 6 years between BD? Are you and your husband recon?


I think she means he dropped a bomb, they rode it out, and 6 year later BD#2.
Posted By: BluWave

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 06/27/18 11:12 AM

Quote:
BLU,

I really appreciate the info.

It amazes me that thru all the damage beauty can be had. After my wife and I recon, I was happy, then after a few months, I stop wanting to be in the M. I couldn't get pass the betrayal. I start to feel like she didn't deserve me. But she stuck by me thru all my pain. The other honesty, I was a truly sh!tty husband and father and I have to live with that as well. I treated her like deal and I sometimes wonder why she decided to come back to me after I treated her so bad and ahe wonder as well.

I also know now that I truly love her, before last summer I wonder if I did.

BLU, I'm glad you have stayed around. The recon thread is dead.

Can you answer, why you think my W stayed?

Did your husband and you go to any Marraige retreats, if so did they help?


joejoe, I think it is fairly normal to feel a tremendous amount of relief when they come back. The pain of being abandoned ends. After all, that has been our entire focus after BD, right? All we focus on (as do most of the posters) is if and when they will come back. As things settle down and we realize they are not going anywhere per se, we begin to feel more safe to allow our own emotional process to unfold more naturally. Of course there is going to be anger, resentment, frustration, a deep sadness, and fear. Ultimately, what we learn here (and in other M programs) is that over time the M becomes a more logistical choice and cannot be guided by any of the above feelings, ie the relief of them back vs the anger of the initial assault.

You have already identified that you were not the best H and father and that you played a part in her leaving. That is excellent! None of your mistakes can excuse what she did, however you know that there were two partners in this sitch. She was unhappy for several reasons. You could not control her leaving, just as you could not control her coming back, but you can clean up your side of the street. The best thing you can do for your M, your kids, but mostly yourself, is to learn from your mistakes. Look inside yourself. Be the best man you can be. Let this be your sliver lining in this very difficult time of life. When things feel hopeless, this is how I try and think about it. I am a better person because of the pain that I worked through. What doesn't kill me, will make me stronger. But I have to put in the hard work too.

Why do I think your W stayed? I have no idea! Honestly, I do not know her or you. Can you look inside yourself? Without over thinking it, why do you think she stayed? I had a gut feeling all along that my H would come to regret his decision and come back. I happened to be right. I think others here also happen to be right, and also some happen to be wrong. I don't know. People are complicated animals!

We did go to M programs. We went to M therapy weekly for almost a year. We also did Retrouvaille. It is hard for me to say how much they helped because had I been in the same sitch without them, my guess is our outcome would be the same. My thoughts are that anything that facilitates positive communication and supports the M, is a good thing! It certainly didn't hurt. For me, the biggest healer has quite simply been time. He has been back 3 years. I still have work to do. I happen to think that the more I look at myself and can be willing to be a better person (woman, mom, wife, friend, etc), the better off I'll be in all aspects of my life.

We can only clean up our side of the street! DB teaches us that. That is a very valuable life lesson that we all need!

Blu
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 06/28/18 07:28 AM

BLU,

Thanks for the awesome advice. I pray my feelings of having a missing feeling goes away.

DB is such an adventure and once our S come back we are stuck in should I or do I trust this person.

You have given me a bunch to chew on and come back to read. I have 4 boys to raise as well and they have become a higher priority in my life through all of this.

Seeing your strength in your Sitch gives me alot of hope.
Posted By: BluWave

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 06/29/18 08:24 AM

Sure thing :-) My perspective has changed with each passing year. That feeling that something is missing or off, does fade with time. A lot of this process just requires time and that part we have no control over. It makes sense that we have these guarded feelings; someone hurt us and we are naturally protecting ourselves. Some of that might even be subconscious, because in nature we (and all animals) have to constantly adapt to survive. I think it is a mild (or maybe severe) form of trauma and PTSD. Just seeing XOW a few weeks ago out of the corner of my eye, made my stomach churn before even processing the sitch and that she is no threat! ... Naturally over time, as the trauma/assault does not repeat itself, the feelings and triggers fade and eventually die. The feelings that something is wrong or missing is much less with each passing year.

There is also a grief process that in some ways has been like a death. The death of the M as we knew it before. It can be confusing because while the person is standing in front of us, the R we had with them is now changed. Personally, I have had SOOOO much sadness that my R with H was lost. the first 10-15 years together we had a strong romance, intimacy and attraction. It felt awesome. I was totally blindsided when BD happened. During the time we were separated, I wasn't able to fully detach and let go so I didn't grieve the end of the R. I have had to grieve while piecing something new with him. That has been very confusing at times. ... I would say go easy on yourself, and allow the sadness in. Take as much time as you need to process that part.

You mentioned that you have four boys. Have you thought about how much your own actions and choices will influence their future? What advice would you give them when they are grown men and come to you with these same dilemmas? What kind of men, husbands and fathers, do you hope they will be? Can you let the answers to these questions guide you? I think when we have so much emotions (triggers, trauma, etc) influencing our thoughts, it can be hard to make the decisions that we really want to make. My biggest goal has been the separation of emotions and choices.

My sitch, and this site, have really helped me try to separate these two things. It has taken me years to get to this place. If I feel hurt and triggered, and I think about the past, and my H simultaneously does something I don't like, my response can be more emotionally driven. There has been many times in the last 3 years that I have considered (and once even tried) leaving the M behind me. However, when I deal with the emotions separately, and allow decisions about my H and my M to be more based on the present and more logical, I respond in a way that I can feel better about. I then make better choices for me and for my Ds. This has been a skill set that has benefited me in other parts of my life. My goal is to master it because I recognize now how much of my life has been guided by my feelings and emotions!

I also wanted to add, that we often hear conflicting advice on if we should stay married because of the kids. We have all heard "we will stay married until the kids are adults because that is what is best for them." (in fact XOW said that years before her A with my H). And we also hear, "it's not good for the kids to stay M just for them, especially if you don't model a healthy R." I personally don't see this as so black and white. I actually agree with both. If both people are willing to stay in the M, really work on it, and model a healthy R, then I agree that is best for the kids overall. If they stay together, yet full of bitterness and resentment, that can be detrimental for kids.

What I have come to appreciate about my H (and I need to give myself some credit too) is that we are willing to work this out, even when at times we don't feel it. This has been a choice we have both made for our R and because we believe it is best for our kids. It's not one reason or the other, it is both. So we both have to commit to doing what it takes to make the adjustments. I am not sure we would be making these positive changes had the last 4 years not happened. So I consider that a silver lining. And maybe as time continues on, my idea of what it means to love someone will change too? I think this might be a more meaningful type of love than what we shared before; choosing someone when life is hard and still wanting change for them. I'll let you know when I figure it out ;-)

It sounds like your W is committed to making this work too. I would encourage you to hang in there through the hard moments, give it time, and keep challenging yourself to make the small changes you need to. Change for you, for your sons, and for the M. If time goes by, and you see her doing the same, then down the road you may be in an even better place.

Keep posting! People do read and it helps to process with others! This post helped me today too.

Blu
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 07/01/18 03:00 PM

BLU,

She is very committed. It's someone unbelievable sometimes. This month and week mark a year since BD.

I also now know I will be alright without my W and I can take care of my boys without her. Its an amazing and saddening feeling at the same time.

Did you see pictures of messages that took you a long time to.het over? If so What Did you do to forget them or move on from them?

Did you and your husband walk on eggshells around each at the beginning of piecing and recon? My W and I didn't want to make to big of mistakes so we were kind of very careful with each other, that seems to be leveling off now.

Thanks BLU!!!
Posted By: BluWave

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 07/10/18 06:14 AM

Hi Joejoe,

How are things?

So it has been one year? Think of how much has changed in just one year. Things really do change, even when it feels like time is standing still or we feel stuck. Just remember, with each passing year, more will continue to change and unfold. We do not see a lot of stories about piecing or what happens years after BD, but often the LBS can be the one to change their mind. I have certainly had my doubts over the years, even with my H being committed to the M.

I think you are on target with your thinking. You know you will be okay without her and you don't need her. That is key, because you are breaking the codependency. The idea for a healthy marriage is not that we need each other, but that we both want to be together. I think all of us can be okay without our S, but we have to know it. It is amazing and liberating. It is also sad, as you say, and I think the sadness comes from looking at our partner with a different lens. They are no longer innocent and we now know they are capable of dishonesty and destruction. This is where time and patience come in. I have to often remind myself to judge my H based on his actions today and not only the past.

Pictures and messages. I am not sure what you have seen, but I am sorry :-( It is most def insult to injury to have seen evidence of the A. As if the imagination isn't painful enough, you also have some proof that you cannot forget. I was fortunate that the "evidence" that I found/saw was not too troubling and was mostly from her. I often suspecting that she was the one pursuing him and trying hard. His issue was more being spineless and allowing it, however the passivity is just as wrong or even worse IMO.

I once found proof that their s-x life was not working so well, so admittedly, I appreciated that. And, that has never been an issue for us. I found a little note that she left in his backpack and that set my mood off for a bit. In thinking about it now, it read like a HS girl fishing for attention. When he came back, he gave me all passwords so I went through and read every email between them. This did hurt and maybe I should not have. In another way, it actually helped because it reinforced my belief that their R was very lopsided. Most of the messages were her flirting, inviting him places, wanting to get together, bring our kids together, and even live together. He didn't reply much and I could see the ambivalence and avoidance from his end.

I do also have a lot of memories of our friendship when their EA got started and I didn't know, but my gut told me something was off. There are many painful memories of watching their interactions and feeling like something was going on. I would call him out, and he would deny, deny, deny. We would argue and the wedge between us widened. This viscous circle went on for many months before I learned about the A. It has been painful for me to accept that he could torture me so many times like this. And we have talked about it quite a bit.

In a nut shell, my perspective is that there were a hundred lies and betrayals. And each one felt like a thousand daggers. My H sees it in another way, and while I was resistant to accepting this position for many years, I have come to understand it better now. In his view, everything was lumped together and it was one giant lie and betrayal, each connected and all intertwined. He could not have had one without the other. Does that make sense? ... Can you think about each painful memory with your W and understand that they are all somehow attached to one difficult time period? Not just difficult for you, but for her as well?

Another thing I want to say is that an A is not as fun and glamorous as the LBS may think, or not according to my H anyhow. For him there was a constant feeling of shame, guilt and self-doubt. He knew it was wrong and wouldn't work, but he felt stuck. It wasn't so much about her and who she is, but more about him trying to run from his life. Can you try and see it that way? Was your W running from her life? What was she running from?

I'll be honest, my H did and still does walk on eggshells with me. I didn't and haven't. I was pretty darn piszed off and have been for years. If anything, I am getting better at and working on toning that back. I am not an easy person to live with or be M to. I have work to do too, even if I am not the one that had the A and left the M. ... I think it's okay to walk on eggshells for a bit. The painful feelings will come up and the triggers are intense. Go easy on each other. If you both want to be in the M and if you are both willing to make positive changes, then that is enough.

My only real advice I have is more patience and more time.

Keep posting. I think it also helps readers pull out of the mind set of just wanting their S back when they see what this process entails.

Blu
Posted By: bluesun

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 07/17/18 05:59 PM

I knew something was going on with him (depression/replay) for about 2 years before he BD me in summer 2012,and fled. He was back one month later but had constant daily contact while gone; messages throughout the day. He is a clinging boomerang. Once he came home he went through major withdrawal and depression. He locked himself in the shed for months. We were on suicide watch. From BD until he was back in the house and in our bed was about 6 months. He was nearly himself but you could see a glimmer of something stirring underneath. His replay behavior came to a halt pretty well. He remained in this limbo state for about 5 years. Trying to figure out what to do with his life on a financial angle. I have health issues which also impact his emotional/financial security. He never left again, physically or emotionally....until financial insecurities reared again. I was hopeful the crisis was finally over...but it wasn't.

We have a business together and we tried a new idea in hopes it would be prosperous and would alleviate our financial dilemma, but it didn't. It hit his ego hard and he began pulling away. Major replay began even worse than the last time. He could feel it coming on because he said to me about a month before he snapped that he thought the UFO was coming back to take him, within a month the withdrawal escaladed until the point came that I literally saw the light leave his eyes and he said to me...are you ready for round two? The monster was back. He began selling anything not tied down, doing whatever he wanted with no recourse or concern. within 6 weeks of the snap, he was gone. contact was regular but not always daily but was for the most part. Before he left he told me not to make any decisions until he was back home. He said he was going away for 3-6 weeks and wants to fix everything when he gets back, that everything will be good once he is back home. He told me to make a MC appointment for when he gets back, which I did and rescheduled 3 times until he returned. (yes there is an alienator and yes I have been aware of everything)

He did come home after 6 weeks. When he came home we went to the MC, which he was very concerned about, he insisted to cancel it because he feared if we went for sure I would leave him, he even told our D20 that day prior to the appointment that for sure it was over, I was going to leave him if we went. He seemed very devastated by this idea. Everything went , ok. we didn't go back as he started cycling back into flee mode. Within 6 weeks he was gone again, he hinted at me saying he was going to be leaving for a couple weeks sometime this summer, that was the day he left. He came up to me and hugged me and said he was running to the dump/waste site, hours later when he didn't return I knew he had fled again. 3 weeks later he returned home. From DB/snap until now has been about 6 months.

He has been home now for almost a month. Trying hard to fix up the house and yard etc. Im not entirely confident he will stay, I hope of course but am scared every day he wont. He doesn't stay in the house, he stays in a small guest cabin we have. He keeps the door locked and says that is the only privacy he has. Every day he seems to be more and more involved with us, but is distant, depressed and guilt ridden. He has always been close with me and even through the worst of the crisis he shut out everyone else, but not me. That's why I think he is a clinging boomerang.

I am hoping we are in a stage of reconnect, I feel extremely anxious and wanting him to just hold me and tell me he loves me and everything with be ok. He does hug me and treat me kindly, with compliments and appreciation. But it is still distant, not kissing or intimacy like that.

In a way it would be easier if he wasn't so kind and connecting, it is hard to detach. I try and the second I do he recognizes it and questions me. People say you wont be of interest to the MLS but to be honest a clinger is different. He notices everything.

The first time he replayed the monster was present for about 2 months, and he was violent and angry/entitled. Between charmer and violent. This time monster was there but you could see the fear more clearly, it wasn't so angry it was obvious the fear. It was the same but different.

Gawd I miss my sweetheart. He is there but he is still out of my reach slightly. Im very lonely, and all I really want is him.I hope this is reconnecting, and I pray he will not leave again.
Love and Hope to everyone struggling with this.
Posted By: BluWave

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 09/24/18 05:17 PM

joejoe,

Where are you? How are things going with you? I keep checking here and looking for an update. I hope you are doing well :-)

Blu
Posted By: ovrrnbw

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 09/24/18 06:56 PM

It looks like I'm following Blu around today.

I just wanted to read joejoe1's thraed and see how it went for him. It was a good read and there was some things I hadn't thought of yet. Always it's good to know more. I wish you luck and happiness joejoe..
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 09/25/18 05:32 AM

I will post an update tomorrow. Thanks for checking on me Blue and Ovr.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 10/01/18 04:56 AM

Well, I finally have a little time to provide an update.

The Wife and I are doing good. We still have our moments, we had one last night, I've been having a lot of triggers lately. So I sat down and discuss them with my wife, she got defensive and said she has told me these things over and over. She also told me, she doesn't think I'm ready to move forward with this M. I told her, the choices we made in our M had consequences I informed to her that she might not be ready as well. Because she was going to have to deal with me in the capacity of having questions until I'm properly healed (this was a selfish comment on my part). We left it at that last night.

We woke up this morning and talked it out. We love each other very much. But we both realize that there will be moments of insecurity because we are human. I think my wife realize that more than I do.

Our everyday lives are normal. I go to work and she stays home and takes care of our boys. What has changed is when I get home I help out with the boys more and she works to show me that I'm a priority to her.

Something, I want to do or try to do, is give my W point of view as I understand it. I think this can help future LBSs.

My wife is working hard to prove to me that she is all in on our M. She tells me all the time she is not walking away from me or leaving me. She felt as though I didn't care or love her. She calls the A, a shallow fling. I disagree, but who cares. She sees, her A, as more of she hated me and didn't want to be around me anymore, she couldn't stand to be around me and I disgusted her. All her respect for me was gone, and she saw me as less than a man, and she saw me as a man that couldn't protect her, not from a fighting standpoint, but from a have her back standpoint. Which means, when she's having a hard time with the kids, I step in and help out. She has groceries in the car, I help get them. She wanted me to be the man and not a selfish child. And that how she saw me most of our M, before BD.

This past week and weekend was rough. She came and held me and told me that people argue and disagree, and I shouldn't get so upset about certain things. She is right, I still have my wall up and I'm ready to be hurt. I still have anger, resentment, and doubt. She has moved pass all of it, and It leaves me wondering, what am I doing wrong. She forgives/forgets fast.

Let me also say, my wife and I, both came to an agreement that we didn't get married for all the right reasons. We jumped into the Marriage because she became pregnant, and she thought she would grow to love me, but we didn't fully know each other before we tied the knot. At BD she told me she was never in love with me. Now she is saying, she loves me, but she is not in love with me, but she feels herself growing closer to those feelings. She tells me she wants to be around me all the time now, and she is starting to enjoy our life.

Are we in the clear no. Are we working to making our M stronger yes? Are there guarantees in life no. The one thing I can say is life is filled with uncertainties. We can't predict the future, we put so many "just in cases" in our lives that we don't know what to do or how to feel when there's isn't one available. Those, "just in cases" are insurances, home, car, health, flood, renters, and all kind of other insurances. Warranties, for all kind of things. Retirements. But there is no certainties for life and the complex beings we are. We are given a finite time on this Earth and then we die. That's the only guarantee. Marriage, life, nor a spouse is guaranteed. So work to be happy, no matter who you are with or where you are in life.

I have driven myself mad trying to always have an answer, but sometimes the answer is there aren't any answers. I hear people say live life with no regrets, that's stupid, without regrets, there wouldn't be growth. I say live life pass regrets. Don't give up on yourself to allow others a chance at being a part of your life and you will be alright.

My Marriage was DBed, but the work hasn't gotten any easier, I have even been miserable on days. The whole time while I was DBing, I thought to myself I will be the happiest person in the world if I get my W back. Well, that hasn't always been the case. That was a feeling for those moments. I still have a lot of healing to do and self-reflection work.


LBSs, keep y'all heads up. Keep your chest held high and love yourself hard.

M:34 W:34
T:9 M:8
S14, S10, S7, S2
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Posted By: BluWave

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 10/04/18 12:18 AM

joejoe,

Thank you for updating. I am glad that you two remain on the path together. I can relate to so many points in your post. I don't update often, because I am not sure what to update. Yes, we sort of carry on, but it can feel quite boring and uneventful at times. Other times I self doubt because I continue to cycle back to the same negative thinking, which does not feel like progress.

You mention that you still have triggers. I think that is okay and to be expected. The trauma is significant. I believe they will continue to fade over time. My H has been back 3.5 years and the triggers have lessened significantly. I am also allowing myself to more see things that were not right in the M before this happened, as opposed to the sitch alone. The triggers can distract from the original M issues, because with the triggers, then our minds become focused on that one time period.

I really appreciate the changes you are both making.That is what this is all about. Slowly making positive changes and creating better habits. These are some of the sliver linings and how we can create a better M than we had before.

Quote
This past week and weekend was rough. She came and held me and told me that people argue and disagree, and I shouldn't get so upset about certain things. She is right, I still have my wall up and I'm ready to be hurt. I still have anger, resentment, and doubt. She has moved pass all of it, and It leaves me wondering, what am I doing wrong. She forgives/forgets fast.


I know exactly what you mean. Sigh. I feel the same way. My H DBs by nature and not even having learned it here. I have to work really hard at this stuff. Also, I think our wounds might be deeper than there's. We were not the ones that left the M.

I have miserable days too. Still. You are not alone. This is more than a process, it's a new life, and I don't know how long it will take to settle in entirely. I am not even sure where I am at today with it all.

I wish you guys the best. Thank you for the update :-) Keep coming back. I want all the newbies to see that this is no easy path.! Of course we only want them back when they are gone, I did too, but when they are back, it's a different, confusing, and possibly longer journey. There are no simple rules or recipe for this part.

Blu
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 10/19/18 10:38 AM

Blu,

Comfusing, you are truly right about that. Battles being fought all over the place. Hope you are doing good.
Posted By: BluWave

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 10/22/18 03:42 PM

I don't update much either. Partly because I don't have anonymity - I blew it somewhere along the way - but also because I don't often know what to post. I am so far down the road, but I really can't say that I have fully restored the M. Sure, we are together and so is our family. This is not the type of R that I imagined I would have in my life. I still doubt things all the time. You are fighting battles; perhaps that is a good thing. Would you say you are highly invested in making it work?

I don't even have much energy for that. The battles are more in my head. I don't even know if "battle" is a good word for me. I have these ongoing informal lists of pros and cons in my mind, and I know it's no way to live, but I can't seem to rally momentum in one direction or another. If that makes sense. I wouldn't even describe myself as stuck, but more in a lull or hiatus.

Blu
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 10/24/18 02:28 AM

Blu,

Well, well, well......I think you and I are surfing the same wave. Man am I becoming ambivalent. I just want to run out the front door or some days and never look back. My W wants this to be normal. I can't see no got dam normal. I guess that's how I feel when she says some of the things she say. And I know she is right, but I still have some anger in me on some days. And she can see it in me. In those moments I dont care what the hell she does. I love my wife and love is a choice and so is forgiveness and for some reason choosing to love is easier than choosing to forget. I'm guarded as well. Even, now that my W is more transparent than she has ever been.

Some days I feel like a plum fool and other days I feel just fine. I'm doing so much better in other aspects of life thou. Better than before BD. I would of gave almost anything to be in this position last year. Halloween marks our 1 year mark on deciding to piece. Time sure in a hell a$$ flies. Life is short, and I don't want to spend anymore days feeling like this. I have read and listen to all kind of podcast and videos and I know this is part of the process.

My wife and I have gotten a lot closer and I'm the one pulling a way most days. She just gives me space a pouts. You are not alone BLU. You my girl BLUE. "All these tears".

Onward and forward
Posted By: neffer

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 11/02/18 02:50 PM

Onward and forward. I always carry those with me. Thank you jj. Glad to read your posts.

Onward and forward man! Great!
Posted By: ovrrnbw

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 11/26/18 10:55 PM

Hi joejoe,

It's hard to hide the kind of pain you've gone through. It's also hard to want to share that all the time too.

I want to encourage you to focus on some of the positives in your life. You wanted the marriage so badly, then, when you got the marriage, you decided you didn't want as much as before. I think this is human nature, but think about it. I do the same thing, so this is no judgment.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: We are moving forward on this journey together - 06/29/19 01:30 PM

It's been on my heart to write this. I have read over this multiple times.

I'm a LBS or rather was a LBS. And when I got the BD I was doing all the wrong things. I ran around my city looking for answers. Asking every person I saw that I trusted what should I do.

I searched the internet exhaustively, looking for support and answers and I finally came across this life saving forum.

Were all my answers here, No. But a lot of the support I needed was, because of the life altering events that we were all living thru. I lived to read a post from Vets, helping me wade my way thru my sitch. Their responses brought me comfort and hope. I continued to read as much as I could about marriages in destruction and the same things came up just in different terms. Allow no disrespect, don't beg, plead, or show weakness, don't pursue, be patient and give space. These are the themes and pillars of a LBS. Out all of the pillars, respect carries love into eternity.

Can a person truly pay respect if they don't have any?

Respect cost, does a person with no respect for another truly love another. IMO, NO! Respect is not something that is just handed over freely, it's earned. It's action oriented. If a person is disrespected and the person who does the disrespecting is not confronted then respect is lost.

In order for a person to once again begin to love they must first begin to respect. In order for another person to respect another, that other person must respect themselves first. The longer the disrespect continues, the more the respect currency is lost.

But, in order to gain respect, it only takes one brave act, one act to show that disrespect won't be allowed. That act doesn't care what the reaction of the person doing the disrespecting is going to do. The only thing that matters is that the disrespecting stops. Once the disrespect is stopped, there are only two options, to respect or to distance ones self. But guess what, the distance option is a form of respect as well.

When faced with disrespect the right decision to be made, is first am I being used/disrespected. Why am I saying No or Yes. Am I saying "NO" to be mean or am I saying no because it's not conducive for me at the moment. Am I saying "Yes" because I think it will get my Spouse back or am I saying "Yes" because it's actually the right thing to do?

See, respect has nothing to do with being mean or nice. Has nothing to do with hurting another. It's all about a person, not crossing the clearly stated boundaries you have set. Repsect is one person acknowledging that they won't cross your LINE, because they understand you won't TOLERATE them if they do.

Most LBS allow line crossing/disrespect because we don't want our WW/WS to leave us, but the irony/rub is the more/longer they line cross the further away they go. If you want them to ever come back and STAY, STAY is the key word, Respect must be there. The more respect they have the less likely they are going to leave.

So the first steps in winning a Spouse back, is stopoing all the actions that show lack of respect and love for oneself (begging, crying, pursuing). Next start loving and respecting yourself. Next GAL, 180s, and detaching (not to escape, but too heal). Lastly allow no other to disrespect you and for all those that do, show them with action what doing so entails.

The purpose of DB or hope for a WW isnít ruining their life, itís leaving them alone and letting them see you grow and become stronger. It's Karma job to teach lessons, it's a LBS job to heal themselves.
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