Piecing - Round 2 - 12/27/12 11:29 PM
Nothing new to report. Just thought I'd start a new thread because my other one was locked. Hope that everyone had a great holiday!
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 12/28/12 07:41 PM
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
The party was GREAT Cor. I mean really, really good. W put in a tons of work on it and went off perfectly. Everyone had a blast. W had an original painting of my recently deceased dog made for me as my birthday gift. I have to admit that I teared up in front of about 40 people when she gave it to me. It's probably the most thoughtful gift that I have ever received from anyone.
Great to hear man! What a nice way to end the year. Hope your xmas was good. All the best in the new year-I'll be glad to see 2012 in the rear view mirror.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 12/30/12 08:14 AM
Hey Denver,
Great to hear from you man. That gift sounds tremendous.
Wishing you likewise an awesome 2013.
Cor74, I have to say I felt the same way about 2008. I had never been so glad to put a year behind me as I was with that one.
Best,
GH31
Great to hear from you man. That gift sounds tremendous.
Wishing you likewise an awesome 2013.
Cor74, I have to say I felt the same way about 2008. I had never been so glad to put a year behind me as I was with that one.
Best,
GH31
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 01/08/13 03:48 PM
Denver,
Im back and may owe you a beer soon....needing some advice from a vet
Im back and may owe you a beer soon....needing some advice from a vet
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 01/16/13 03:33 AM
Update... running into some inner turmoil...
Okay, so I've personally had a tough few days. Before I talk about that, I am going to provide an update.
Things have been going extremely well for W and since Christmas. We had a rough month from about Thanksgiving up until Christmas. Since then though, it has been really good.
The W of the owner of the music company that W works for passed away from breast cancer on NY's Eve. W asked me if I would go to the funeral with her and I, of course, said that I would. When we were talking about it, she said, 'you know that what's his face will probably be there'. She was referring to OM. I told her that I figured that he would be and that as long as he stayed away from me that it would be find. She responded by saying that she thought he should stay away from both of us. I agreed.
W told a friend of OM that she was going to the funeral with me. The friend told OM. OM originally indicated that he was going to go also, but we did not see him there. I had planned on ignoring him if I saw him. I made a point to act like I would any other time and not feel like I had to try and avoid anything. I am glad though that he did not show. Unfortunately, I have zero desire to ever see the guy, and am a bit concerned how it might go if I did and he approached me.
W performed at a party at the Hotel Jerome in Aspen. She wasn't going to do it unless the event planner and her boss let me go as a guest. So I got see W sing. Had a good time.
A few nights ago W told me that OM had again emailed her boss whining about him cutting him out of work bc W won't play on any shows that he is on. Her boss forwarded her the email which she forwarded to me. In it, he talked about how W makes x number of dollars being a teacher, x number of dollars per gig, and how her husband (me) makes x number of dollars as an attorney. He said how he is having trouble paying his bills and that he is 'hurt how you (boss) and her (my W) have tossed him to the side'. He called the boss a liar and my W unprofessional.
W talked to her friend (same as above) who is also kind of friends with OM. The friend said that OM was p!ssed off at friend and that he had gone off recently about W and how everyone is against him. W told me that she expressed concern that OM was going off of the rails a bit and was a bit worried for her and our family's safety enough that she asked the friend if that was something that she had to worry about. She said that she is just worried that he might go crazy and get a gun or something. Mostly, I just sat there and listened, but I did make a somewhat unneeded statement when she mentioned the last part... I said that he better have a gun if he comes any where close to us. I believe that W is a bit overly concerned about things like this. She always has been. I'm not too concerned about OM doing anything like what she is concerned about.
I forgot, a couple of nights before that last convo, W told me that my step son had texted OM while ss was in California visiting his dad. W found out about it from the mutual friend. W expressed frustration bc she believed that she had blocked OM's number so that it there could be no communication bw ss and OM. She asked me to check our verizon account to see.
I checked the account and found that all of the parental controls had been erased when we activated a phone that we got for step son on Christmas. I reset the parental controls and again blocked the number.
I went through ss's phone and read the text conversation bw OM and ss. OM told ss that W and I had gotten him fired, that he was having trouble paying his bills, that he couldn't talk to ss bc W and I had threatened to put him in jail if he did (not true at all), he told step son to look him up when he is 18, and told him that he just wants to be left alone. SS responded by saying that it was awful that we had gotten him fired and threatened him with jail. SS agreed not to contact him again.
I told W about what I had read and she was furious that OM had lied to ss. She said that she just wants him out of our life completely.
So the recent stuff with OM which is really only the email to W's boss and the text messages to step son is the first we've heard from him in a few months. It's not a huge deal IMO, but it is annoying that this issue just won't go away completely. I keep thinking that with more time, it will.
So now why I've been struggling...
When I logged onto our verizen account, it was the first time that I had done so in over 2 years. When I originally confronted W about all of the texts and telephone calls with OM, she had changed the password. I never asked for it, but she voluntarily gave it to me a few months ago. I never logged on though bc I had no reason to.
Anyway, when I did this time, to change the parental controls on ss's phone, I apparently had too much time on my hands. I decided to go back and look at W's telephone records from a year ago, and those right around the time that I told W that I wanted a D (about 6 weeks before she finally reversed course and came back). I assigned OM"s phone number with a nickname, 'dumba$$' so that I could easily find it in the records of calls.
When doing this, I told myself that I could handle whatever I found because things are good now. Besides, I told myself, I always assumed that W had not been completely honest during the times when we were hanging out supposedly trying to work towards piecing. I busted a her lying or omitting the truth a few times, but I never really thought that I had caught her every time.
What I found...
1) there were long periods of time where W had told me that she was not having contact with OM bc she was working on us, where she WAS telling the truth. At least according to her phone records.
2) there were times when she did violate the boundary that I had set (no OM if I am in her life, or no me if he is). For example, new year's eve last year. W supposedly was having no contact with OM, but I found at least one telephone call the night of NY's eve when she was at a show. W had called me that night from the stage (she was on a gig) to let me and ss listen to the music as the countdown ended. But she had also called or received a call from OM that night. She supposedly went home after the show (obviously very late) and I did not see her. Well, my mind began to work here and I imagined that she saw OM that night after her show. I have no idea if that is true, but it has bothered me a lot since I looked at these records. The second one that has bothered me is that I saw that she had spoken to OM for about 1 1/2 hours two nights prior to the date when I finally blew a gasket and decided that I was DONE (the next day I asked for a divorce). This was in early May. The reason that this one bothers me now is that, on May 7th, the date that I blew a gasket, W swore to me that she had not been talking with OM. The date of the 1 1/2 hour call was May 5th. I told her I wanted a D on May 8th... why? Bc something was telling me that W was not being honest. Which leads me to #3...
3) That it seems that every single time that I either busted W lying, or that I had a sense that something was wrong, there was contact with OM in the days preceding. In fact, it seems that these were the only times that W was having contact with OM. The NY's Eve telephone call for example... well, it was only 2 weeks later that I busted W lying about having contact with OM by reading texts on ss's cell phone. That led to me cutting off contact and W calling me a bizzilion times while I was on a trip out of the state. On the bright side, it seems that I had a pretty good instinct for some how knowing.
So why is this bothering me when things are so good now? I keep telling myself that I am causing problems bc of things that are history. I could barely talk to my W this last weekend, let alone touch her. On the outside, I told her that I was just upset about some work stuff... on the inside, I was furious with her. Finally, on Sunday, she went off on me. I calmed her down and told her that I knew that I was leaving her in the dark about what is going on with me. But, I told her, I do not want to talk about it. She said that if we don't talk, nothing can be fixed and that I will just eventually go off on her about whatever is bothering me. I reiterated that I do not want to talk about it and that nothing needed to be fixed... that I just need to work through some things. W dropped the topic. I have since been acting as if nothing is wrong. W and I have been getting along since, but there is tension between us. Me, bc of what I am thinking, and W, bc she knows that something is wrong with me.
I do NOT believe that it is a good idea for me to talk to W about what I saw or what I am thinking as a result. First, W would not be happy that I was looking at old phone records of hers. Second, it would be drudging up past stuff which we have both agreed to put behind us. And lastly, bc it will just cause problems when we really have been in a good place. The rational side of me is sure that this isn't worth blowing my M up over... the emotional side is another story.
I am struggling with resentment. Resentment that W could so easily lie to me. So easily choose to risk hurting me like she was. Bc she was so attached to OM emotionally that she could not just move beyond it during those times. It also has me questioning the trust I have put in her now.
For the record, I did go through most of her phone records from the past 7 months (since we began piecing) and it seems that she has had zero contact with OM just like she has said.
It is coincidental that carnac just mentioned resentment in a post and had asked me about it. Like I said Carnac, I obviously do still struggle with it.
I could use some input ... starsky? others?
Okay, so I've personally had a tough few days. Before I talk about that, I am going to provide an update.
Things have been going extremely well for W and since Christmas. We had a rough month from about Thanksgiving up until Christmas. Since then though, it has been really good.
The W of the owner of the music company that W works for passed away from breast cancer on NY's Eve. W asked me if I would go to the funeral with her and I, of course, said that I would. When we were talking about it, she said, 'you know that what's his face will probably be there'. She was referring to OM. I told her that I figured that he would be and that as long as he stayed away from me that it would be find. She responded by saying that she thought he should stay away from both of us. I agreed.
W told a friend of OM that she was going to the funeral with me. The friend told OM. OM originally indicated that he was going to go also, but we did not see him there. I had planned on ignoring him if I saw him. I made a point to act like I would any other time and not feel like I had to try and avoid anything. I am glad though that he did not show. Unfortunately, I have zero desire to ever see the guy, and am a bit concerned how it might go if I did and he approached me.
W performed at a party at the Hotel Jerome in Aspen. She wasn't going to do it unless the event planner and her boss let me go as a guest. So I got see W sing. Had a good time.
A few nights ago W told me that OM had again emailed her boss whining about him cutting him out of work bc W won't play on any shows that he is on. Her boss forwarded her the email which she forwarded to me. In it, he talked about how W makes x number of dollars being a teacher, x number of dollars per gig, and how her husband (me) makes x number of dollars as an attorney. He said how he is having trouble paying his bills and that he is 'hurt how you (boss) and her (my W) have tossed him to the side'. He called the boss a liar and my W unprofessional.
W talked to her friend (same as above) who is also kind of friends with OM. The friend said that OM was p!ssed off at friend and that he had gone off recently about W and how everyone is against him. W told me that she expressed concern that OM was going off of the rails a bit and was a bit worried for her and our family's safety enough that she asked the friend if that was something that she had to worry about. She said that she is just worried that he might go crazy and get a gun or something. Mostly, I just sat there and listened, but I did make a somewhat unneeded statement when she mentioned the last part... I said that he better have a gun if he comes any where close to us. I believe that W is a bit overly concerned about things like this. She always has been. I'm not too concerned about OM doing anything like what she is concerned about.
I forgot, a couple of nights before that last convo, W told me that my step son had texted OM while ss was in California visiting his dad. W found out about it from the mutual friend. W expressed frustration bc she believed that she had blocked OM's number so that it there could be no communication bw ss and OM. She asked me to check our verizon account to see.
I checked the account and found that all of the parental controls had been erased when we activated a phone that we got for step son on Christmas. I reset the parental controls and again blocked the number.
I went through ss's phone and read the text conversation bw OM and ss. OM told ss that W and I had gotten him fired, that he was having trouble paying his bills, that he couldn't talk to ss bc W and I had threatened to put him in jail if he did (not true at all), he told step son to look him up when he is 18, and told him that he just wants to be left alone. SS responded by saying that it was awful that we had gotten him fired and threatened him with jail. SS agreed not to contact him again.
I told W about what I had read and she was furious that OM had lied to ss. She said that she just wants him out of our life completely.
So the recent stuff with OM which is really only the email to W's boss and the text messages to step son is the first we've heard from him in a few months. It's not a huge deal IMO, but it is annoying that this issue just won't go away completely. I keep thinking that with more time, it will.
So now why I've been struggling...
When I logged onto our verizen account, it was the first time that I had done so in over 2 years. When I originally confronted W about all of the texts and telephone calls with OM, she had changed the password. I never asked for it, but she voluntarily gave it to me a few months ago. I never logged on though bc I had no reason to.
Anyway, when I did this time, to change the parental controls on ss's phone, I apparently had too much time on my hands. I decided to go back and look at W's telephone records from a year ago, and those right around the time that I told W that I wanted a D (about 6 weeks before she finally reversed course and came back). I assigned OM"s phone number with a nickname, 'dumba$$' so that I could easily find it in the records of calls.
When doing this, I told myself that I could handle whatever I found because things are good now. Besides, I told myself, I always assumed that W had not been completely honest during the times when we were hanging out supposedly trying to work towards piecing. I busted a her lying or omitting the truth a few times, but I never really thought that I had caught her every time.
What I found...
1) there were long periods of time where W had told me that she was not having contact with OM bc she was working on us, where she WAS telling the truth. At least according to her phone records.
2) there were times when she did violate the boundary that I had set (no OM if I am in her life, or no me if he is). For example, new year's eve last year. W supposedly was having no contact with OM, but I found at least one telephone call the night of NY's eve when she was at a show. W had called me that night from the stage (she was on a gig) to let me and ss listen to the music as the countdown ended. But she had also called or received a call from OM that night. She supposedly went home after the show (obviously very late) and I did not see her. Well, my mind began to work here and I imagined that she saw OM that night after her show. I have no idea if that is true, but it has bothered me a lot since I looked at these records. The second one that has bothered me is that I saw that she had spoken to OM for about 1 1/2 hours two nights prior to the date when I finally blew a gasket and decided that I was DONE (the next day I asked for a divorce). This was in early May. The reason that this one bothers me now is that, on May 7th, the date that I blew a gasket, W swore to me that she had not been talking with OM. The date of the 1 1/2 hour call was May 5th. I told her I wanted a D on May 8th... why? Bc something was telling me that W was not being honest. Which leads me to #3...
3) That it seems that every single time that I either busted W lying, or that I had a sense that something was wrong, there was contact with OM in the days preceding. In fact, it seems that these were the only times that W was having contact with OM. The NY's Eve telephone call for example... well, it was only 2 weeks later that I busted W lying about having contact with OM by reading texts on ss's cell phone. That led to me cutting off contact and W calling me a bizzilion times while I was on a trip out of the state. On the bright side, it seems that I had a pretty good instinct for some how knowing.
So why is this bothering me when things are so good now? I keep telling myself that I am causing problems bc of things that are history. I could barely talk to my W this last weekend, let alone touch her. On the outside, I told her that I was just upset about some work stuff... on the inside, I was furious with her. Finally, on Sunday, she went off on me. I calmed her down and told her that I knew that I was leaving her in the dark about what is going on with me. But, I told her, I do not want to talk about it. She said that if we don't talk, nothing can be fixed and that I will just eventually go off on her about whatever is bothering me. I reiterated that I do not want to talk about it and that nothing needed to be fixed... that I just need to work through some things. W dropped the topic. I have since been acting as if nothing is wrong. W and I have been getting along since, but there is tension between us. Me, bc of what I am thinking, and W, bc she knows that something is wrong with me.
I do NOT believe that it is a good idea for me to talk to W about what I saw or what I am thinking as a result. First, W would not be happy that I was looking at old phone records of hers. Second, it would be drudging up past stuff which we have both agreed to put behind us. And lastly, bc it will just cause problems when we really have been in a good place. The rational side of me is sure that this isn't worth blowing my M up over... the emotional side is another story.
I am struggling with resentment. Resentment that W could so easily lie to me. So easily choose to risk hurting me like she was. Bc she was so attached to OM emotionally that she could not just move beyond it during those times. It also has me questioning the trust I have put in her now.
For the record, I did go through most of her phone records from the past 7 months (since we began piecing) and it seems that she has had zero contact with OM just like she has said.
It is coincidental that carnac just mentioned resentment in a post and had asked me about it. Like I said Carnac, I obviously do still struggle with it.
I could use some input ... starsky? others?
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 01/16/13 03:42 AM
Damnit... there really needs to be an edit feature here. That last post was written terribly. I hope that it makes sense. I was just writing stream of consciousness I guess.
Not that it matters, but the party that W performed at the Hotel Jerome, that I went with her to, was this past NY's Eve.
Not that it matters, but the party that W performed at the Hotel Jerome, that I went with her to, was this past NY's Eve.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 01/16/13 04:37 AM
Denver you are a strong man and a gentleman. The trust will take a long time for sure to come back, but at least she is being open now and letting you see current stuff. As long as she continues to be open and nothing to hide. Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. Sounds like she is even soliciting your help to shake him off which is another dynamic in of itself. She is keeping you abreast of the situation. More than most betrayed spouses get. Continue to be strong, this will still take a while but you are doing great. There will be ups and downs. Oddly I am jealous of you right now.
This clown of an OM sounds crazy. This folks is yet another reason that affairs are the worst thing you can do to your family and friends. See how many people are affected inside and outside the family? Family, friends, colleagues, employers, anxiety at a funeral! Look at the collateral damage. Wonder what the dollar number of lost productivity is in the workforce annually due to marriage issues and affairs? I know my work suffered and everyone that posts here on the topic struggles with productivity. Perhaps the government does need to step up and save families and marriages rather than tinker with legislation that helps to break up families and makes it simpler to D or have an affair rather than work on our marriages and families. Or are they too busy having A's of their own? These are stressful and confusing times so we need to get rational about the good of our core family values and protect them. This will make our culture safer and more loving and more productive.
Please for the love of God, do not have an affair if you are considering one or are getting swept up in one. Get help instead! Spread the word! We need to look after ourselves!
This clown of an OM sounds crazy. This folks is yet another reason that affairs are the worst thing you can do to your family and friends. See how many people are affected inside and outside the family? Family, friends, colleagues, employers, anxiety at a funeral! Look at the collateral damage. Wonder what the dollar number of lost productivity is in the workforce annually due to marriage issues and affairs? I know my work suffered and everyone that posts here on the topic struggles with productivity. Perhaps the government does need to step up and save families and marriages rather than tinker with legislation that helps to break up families and makes it simpler to D or have an affair rather than work on our marriages and families. Or are they too busy having A's of their own? These are stressful and confusing times so we need to get rational about the good of our core family values and protect them. This will make our culture safer and more loving and more productive.
Please for the love of God, do not have an affair if you are considering one or are getting swept up in one. Get help instead! Spread the word! We need to look after ourselves!
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 01/16/13 08:35 AM
Here's what you need to do. Talk to your W. She's at a place where it seems she would be sympathetic to your feelings. The reason why I say this is because too many times we see WASs here who were the LBS. They reconciled BUT held onto resentment or didn't know how to cope with it. The resentment built up in them like a cancer to the point where they felt justified when they had an A themselves or felt like walking out on their spouse.
Resentment breeds in the dark. Honesty and truth can shine a light on it. You just have to tell her how you FEEL and not place any blame on her. Do the "I FEEL HURT ... WHEN I FOUND OUT ..."
Your W is right. YOU need to open up again and to start trusting her. This is the next stage of Piecing.
Resentment breeds in the dark. Honesty and truth can shine a light on it. You just have to tell her how you FEEL and not place any blame on her. Do the "I FEEL HURT ... WHEN I FOUND OUT ..."
Your W is right. YOU need to open up again and to start trusting her. This is the next stage of Piecing.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 01/16/13 11:18 AM
G’day Denver,
I just read all of what you had written and must confess I had to heave a huge sigh.
The reason being that I know firsthand exactly what you are going through.
Been there, done that and have the scars.
Regarding your update, all of it is very encouraging. Your wife wants to enlist you as an ally in getting this pile of sh*t OM out of your lives. This is very significant.
This is going to happen again. You will experience waves of resentment as a result of what you have been through for a while. It hurts, really it does, but it does fade with time.
Again, highly significant that she would give you this.
This kind of stuff will unfortunately get the better of all of us from time to time..
Yep.
I tell the newcomers this all the time: All Cheaters Lie. You can tell they are lying because their mouths are moving.
If your Mrs. had an OM then she definitely would have lied to you if and when it suited her.
It really cuts to the core, arguably more so than the physical reality of banging an OM, but it is what it is.
Affairs act like a drug in the cheater’s blood.
Cheating wives (or husbands) will lie with every breath in order to keep the H plate and the OM plate spinning.
See what I mean?
You wouldn’t have caught her every time but so what? It doesn’t matter so much now, even though the anger you likely feel due to the lies is raw.
Good.
Rule of Thumb: If you’re intuition says she wasn’t lying then it’s probably (no, definitely) right.
Your intuition is virtually never wrong.
See?
Read my highlighted bits again.
Do you see why your intuition is never wrong?
Experience.
There is no smoke without fire.
It has been my experience also that if your wife is otherwise well adjusted there is no dishonesty without contact with OM.
See?
See?
Always trust Old Man Intuition.
Because the person you love the most in this world, your wife, lied through her teeth to you, tried to deceive you, lead you up the garden path and tried taking you for a total idiot.
So did mine.
Both you and I took a strong stand about being taken for chumps, severed contact with our wives, and we both had our wives come back to us making overtures about wanting to “put things right”.
But you just discovered more lies. And it hurts, even if it took place a while ago now. Even if she is sorry about everything that happened and wants to build a new life together with you.
It’s OK to feel hurt about that.
So, how do you deal with it all now?
You haven’t caused any problems yet, but when the past finds its way into the present then you can experience a few problems for sure.
There’s no point in you getting dishonest as well.
Careful here, that can be hurtful for the other spouse if they’re shut down. Just ask RegretfulLA on her thread.
She is right.
Nothing needs to be “fixed” but something certainly needs to be expressed and in the right way.
The problem has not gone away.
She knows something is afoot which you both need to deal with. You need to be the one to lead.
I would disagree.
You need to broach it with her, she wants you to and how you say it will determine the outcome, not necessarily what you say.
If I woke up in Denver’s shoes this is what I would say, when both of you are feeling relatively relaxed:
”W, there’s no easy way to tell you this but I know you’ve noticed I’ve been troubled and you’re anxious for me to share it with you...”
”I logged into the Verizon account the other day to reset SS’s parental controls after they lapse and I ended up looking at phone records from our dark time. I couldn’t help but notice inconsistencies between what you told me back then and what actually took place. As a result I’ve once again got raw feelings of having been deceived. Now, W, I love you very much an am not interested in punishing you for this. It’s a some time ago now. We’ve agreed to put it behind us but I was triggered by what I saw, I’m hurt and that’s just that. I’ll feel better soon and don’t want to say or do something I might regret, hence my reluctance to bring it up.”
“Like I said, I love you W and that’s that.”.
VOICE TONE: Detached, reflective, slower than normal, measured and laid back as if you’re talking about someone else. Imagine that you’re kicking back on a big couch as you’re saying it, as if you’re reminiscing whilst sipping a balloon of cognac and smoking a cigar.
How you do your “start up” in this conversation will determine the outcome. No finger pointing, no accusations, just calmly stating what is.
If I woke up in Denver’s shoes I would spend time mentally rehearsing this conversation and visualise it ending ideally.
You’ll find the words flow far more naturally off your tongue if you do this.
Then I’d get it done.
Marriage is an emotional as well as a rational experience Denver.
Those waves of resentment are going to keep coming Denver but they’re ephemeral for the most part, especially if your wife is sorry.
And they lessen in severity with time.
I actually think you and Mrs. Denver are doing great. Really great.
Hang in there and keep going. Keep updating here and let us know how you’re travelling.
Best,
GH31
I just read all of what you had written and must confess I had to heave a huge sigh.
The reason being that I know firsthand exactly what you are going through.
Been there, done that and have the scars.
Regarding your update, all of it is very encouraging. Your wife wants to enlist you as an ally in getting this pile of sh*t OM out of your lives. This is very significant.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
Update... running into some inner turmoil...
This is going to happen again. You will experience waves of resentment as a result of what you have been through for a while. It hurts, really it does, but it does fade with time.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
When I logged onto our verizen account, it was the first time that I had done so in over 2 years. When I originally confronted W about all of the texts and telephone calls with OM, she had changed the password. I never asked for it, but she voluntarily gave it to me a few months ago.
Again, highly significant that she would give you this.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
Anyway, when I did this time, to change the parental controls on ss's phone, I apparently had too much time on my hands.
This kind of stuff will unfortunately get the better of all of us from time to time..
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
I decided to go back and look at W's telephone records from a year ago
Yep.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
When doing this, I told myself that I could handle whatever I found because things are good now. Besides, I told myself, I always assumed that W had not been completely honest during the times when we were hanging out supposedly trying to work towards piecing.
I tell the newcomers this all the time: All Cheaters Lie. You can tell they are lying because their mouths are moving.
If your Mrs. had an OM then she definitely would have lied to you if and when it suited her.
It really cuts to the core, arguably more so than the physical reality of banging an OM, but it is what it is.
Affairs act like a drug in the cheater’s blood.
Cheating wives (or husbands) will lie with every breath in order to keep the H plate and the OM plate spinning.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
I busted a her lying or omitting the truth a few times, but I never really thought that I had caught her every time.
See what I mean?
You wouldn’t have caught her every time but so what? It doesn’t matter so much now, even though the anger you likely feel due to the lies is raw.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
What I found...
1) there were long periods of time where W had told me that she was not having contact with OM bc she was working on us, where she WAS telling the truth. At least according to her phone records.
1) there were long periods of time where W had told me that she was not having contact with OM bc she was working on us, where she WAS telling the truth. At least according to her phone records.
Good.
Rule of Thumb: If you’re intuition says she wasn’t lying then it’s probably (no, definitely) right.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
The reason that this one bothers me now is that, on May 7th, the date that I blew a gasket, W swore to me that she had not been talking with OM. The date of the 1 1/2 hour call was May 5th. I told her I wanted a D on May 8th... why? Bc something was telling me that W was not being honest. Which leads me to #3...
Your intuition is virtually never wrong.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
3) That it seems that every single time that I either busted W lying, or that I had a sense that something was wrong, there was contact with OM in the days preceding.
See?
Read my highlighted bits again.
Do you see why your intuition is never wrong?
Experience.
There is no smoke without fire.
It has been my experience also that if your wife is otherwise well adjusted there is no dishonesty without contact with OM.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
In fact, it seems that these were the only times that W was having contact with OM.
See?
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
On the bright side, it seems that I had a pretty good instinct for some how knowing.
See?
Always trust Old Man Intuition.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
So why is this bothering me when things are so good now?
Because the person you love the most in this world, your wife, lied through her teeth to you, tried to deceive you, lead you up the garden path and tried taking you for a total idiot.
So did mine.
Both you and I took a strong stand about being taken for chumps, severed contact with our wives, and we both had our wives come back to us making overtures about wanting to “put things right”.
But you just discovered more lies. And it hurts, even if it took place a while ago now. Even if she is sorry about everything that happened and wants to build a new life together with you.
It’s OK to feel hurt about that.
So, how do you deal with it all now?
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
I keep telling myself that I am causing problems bc of things that are history.
You haven’t caused any problems yet, but when the past finds its way into the present then you can experience a few problems for sure.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
I could barely talk to my W this last weekend, let alone touch her. On the outside, I told her that I was just upset about some work stuff... on the inside, I was furious with her.
There’s no point in you getting dishonest as well.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
Finally, on Sunday, she went off on me. I calmed her down and told her that I knew that I was leaving her in the dark about what is going on with me. But, I told her, I do not want to talk about it.
Careful here, that can be hurtful for the other spouse if they’re shut down. Just ask RegretfulLA on her thread.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
She said that if we don't talk, nothing can be fixed and that I will just eventually go off on her about whatever is bothering me.
She is right.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
I reiterated that I do not want to talk about it and that nothing needed to be fixed...
Nothing needs to be “fixed” but something certainly needs to be expressed and in the right way.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
W dropped the topic. I have since been acting as if nothing is wrong.
The problem has not gone away.
Originally Posted By: Denever_2010
W and I have been getting along since, but there is tension between us. Me, bc of what I am thinking, and W, bc she knows that something is wrong with me.
She knows something is afoot which you both need to deal with. You need to be the one to lead.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
I do NOT believe that it is a good idea for me to talk to W about what I saw or what I am thinking as a result.
I would disagree.
You need to broach it with her, she wants you to and how you say it will determine the outcome, not necessarily what you say.
If I woke up in Denver’s shoes this is what I would say, when both of you are feeling relatively relaxed:
”W, there’s no easy way to tell you this but I know you’ve noticed I’ve been troubled and you’re anxious for me to share it with you...”
”I logged into the Verizon account the other day to reset SS’s parental controls after they lapse and I ended up looking at phone records from our dark time. I couldn’t help but notice inconsistencies between what you told me back then and what actually took place. As a result I’ve once again got raw feelings of having been deceived. Now, W, I love you very much an am not interested in punishing you for this. It’s a some time ago now. We’ve agreed to put it behind us but I was triggered by what I saw, I’m hurt and that’s just that. I’ll feel better soon and don’t want to say or do something I might regret, hence my reluctance to bring it up.”
“Like I said, I love you W and that’s that.”.
VOICE TONE: Detached, reflective, slower than normal, measured and laid back as if you’re talking about someone else. Imagine that you’re kicking back on a big couch as you’re saying it, as if you’re reminiscing whilst sipping a balloon of cognac and smoking a cigar.
How you do your “start up” in this conversation will determine the outcome. No finger pointing, no accusations, just calmly stating what is.
If I woke up in Denver’s shoes I would spend time mentally rehearsing this conversation and visualise it ending ideally.
You’ll find the words flow far more naturally off your tongue if you do this.
Then I’d get it done.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
The rational side of me is sure that this isn't worth blowing my M up over... the emotional side is another story.
Marriage is an emotional as well as a rational experience Denver.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
I am struggling with resentment. Resentment that W could so easily lie to me. So easily choose to risk hurting me like she was.
Those waves of resentment are going to keep coming Denver but they’re ephemeral for the most part, especially if your wife is sorry.
And they lessen in severity with time.
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
For the record, I did go through most of her phone records from the past 7 months (since we began piecing) and it seems that she has had zero contact with OM just like she has said.
I actually think you and Mrs. Denver are doing great. Really great.
Hang in there and keep going. Keep updating here and let us know how you’re travelling.
Best,
GH31
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 01/16/13 03:27 PM
Denver,
I agree that you don't want to admit to snooping, but I also think you need to let your wife into your heart, so to speak, and let her know why you're struggling,
Can you maybe say "I'm just struggling with some old triggers" ?? Maybe something like "I will hear a song on the radio that was a hit during the time we were going thru our chit," or "When I drive past thus-and-such a place it triggers me," or maybe blame it on the holidays? I'd suggest some sort of alluding to the triggers about OM, without getting into snooping or sounding overly "needy" about the whole thing.
Not telling her ANYTHING is surely making it worse, as she probably fears something much worse.
Just my two cents.
Starsky
I agree that you don't want to admit to snooping, but I also think you need to let your wife into your heart, so to speak, and let her know why you're struggling,
Can you maybe say "I'm just struggling with some old triggers" ?? Maybe something like "I will hear a song on the radio that was a hit during the time we were going thru our chit," or "When I drive past thus-and-such a place it triggers me," or maybe blame it on the holidays? I'd suggest some sort of alluding to the triggers about OM, without getting into snooping or sounding overly "needy" about the whole thing.
Not telling her ANYTHING is surely making it worse, as she probably fears something much worse.
Just my two cents.
Starsky
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 01/16/13 03:28 PM
Originally Posted By: FloydMan
Denver you are a strong man and a gentleman. The trust will take a long time for sure to come back, but at least she is being open now and letting you see current stuff. As long as she continues to be open and nothing to hide. Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. Sounds like she is even soliciting your help to shake him off which is another dynamic in of itself. She is keeping you abreast of the situation. More than most betrayed spouses get. Continue to be strong, this will still take a while but you are doing great. There will be ups and downs.
Agree with this. ^^^
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 01/18/13 12:26 AM
Thank you all for responding... Bond, Floyd, Starsky. GH, that was a great post and I needed it. You have a lot of good advice to offer here on piecing AND on newcomers. I just want to say that.
Things are a little better. My mind has been much less consumed by the past these last few days. Everything that ALL of you said is true. While I would like to talk to my W about it, Starsky is right... I don't want to admit to snooping. It would upset my W. While she knows that I am watching her present actions to make sure that I can trust her, I just know that she would be hurt that I am going back in time to drudge up things that I know, deep down, she would be ashamed of. I have no doubt that this would cause her to become defensive. That wouldn't be good for us. Right now, I am tempted to go with Starsky's idea about the 'triggers'. That is more vague and also something that I've told her in the past. So I think that she would understand better. And it would also shed light on why I am upset. I may not even do that unless and until I run into the problem again. Hopefully I won't... but as GH says, I probably will.
Thanks again guys!
Denver
Things are a little better. My mind has been much less consumed by the past these last few days. Everything that ALL of you said is true. While I would like to talk to my W about it, Starsky is right... I don't want to admit to snooping. It would upset my W. While she knows that I am watching her present actions to make sure that I can trust her, I just know that she would be hurt that I am going back in time to drudge up things that I know, deep down, she would be ashamed of. I have no doubt that this would cause her to become defensive. That wouldn't be good for us. Right now, I am tempted to go with Starsky's idea about the 'triggers'. That is more vague and also something that I've told her in the past. So I think that she would understand better. And it would also shed light on why I am upset. I may not even do that unless and until I run into the problem again. Hopefully I won't... but as GH says, I probably will.
Thanks again guys!
Denver
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 01/18/13 04:05 PM
Sounds like a plan, man.
Starsky
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/04/13 09:14 PM
Denver, just got caught up on your thread. Congrats...you're doing an amazing job and starting to reap what you've sown. A speed bump here and there...but those'll just help keep you grounded. 
Wish you all the best man.
Wish you all the best man.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/05/13 05:23 PM
Thanks Navy! Hope all is well with you.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/21/13 04:50 AM
Hey Denver. Finally had a chance to check in with you!! I could have written your most recent post!!!
I feel a little like a WAS lately!!????
So strange. My H seems to do it all right but lately I have been replaying things in my mind too much!!! Questioning the past.
Hope all is well with you and W!
Are you doing the Weekend to Remember " again. We plan to. Stop by my thread when u can. Take care
I feel a little like a WAS lately!!????
So strange. My H seems to do it all right but lately I have been replaying things in my mind too much!!! Questioning the past.
Hope all is well with you and W!
Are you doing the Weekend to Remember " again. We plan to. Stop by my thread when u can. Take care
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/26/13 07:48 PM
Hi LJGH2. I have not been around the boards much lately. Super busy with work, and with life. I will try to get over to your thread, but even today I only have a few minutes. Thanks for the support.
A very quick update. The last 6 weeks or so have been pretty rough for W and I. I have to admit that things slid down hill after i looked at those phone records. I had a very difficult time putting that aside and my attitude towards W reflected my difficulty. I did what I had discussed here and told W that i was dealing with some things that had been triggered. I told her that I still have triggers, that I had to deal with them, and that I hoped that they would lessen with time.
W wasn't real thrilled with that answer, but she didn't tell me that. Later, when things blew up, she told me that she suspected that it had something to do with events that happened while we were separated and that she was angry that I didn't tell her what it was. I admitted a little more during that conversation, but not the specifics.
Her attitude towards me became guarded when she sensed that something was going on with me. That made me feel that she was distant and making other things in her life more of a priority than me and our M. Basically everything kind of snowballed.
Even during the past 6 weeks though, there have been ups. It hasn't been all bad. We have gone several days with things being pretty good and feeling pretty connected, and then we have gone through several days where things have been really distant between us.
We had a huge argument on Saturday night. Both of us let loose on one another. W telling me that I was reverting to old behaviors of withdrawing, me telling W that I had been withdrawing because she wasn't making me and our M a priority and that she wasn't even trying to pay attention to my love languages. W telling me that she was being distant because of my behavior, that I don't give things time to heal because I always seem mad at her. I don't know. It's basically a "chicken or the egg" dilemma. My actions have a causal effect on her actions, and vice versa. It is VERY difficult to break that cycle.
W left the house after the argument saying that she was going to go somewhere with one of her friends, that she wasn't going to waste her weekend arguing with me. About 10 minutes after she left, I called her and asked her if she wanted to just go to dinner and try to put the argument aside. She agreed and came back to the house. We ended up having a good night and rest of the weekend.
The argument was on Friday night. I have noticed that we have both been trying to "right" what we each complained about during that argument, for the past few days. I can see that W has made a conscious effort to be more physically affectionate, my love language, and I have tried to just put aside my feelings of frustration and get back to doing the things that helped me get to a point of reconciliation.
I have been doing a lot of thinking about the past couple of years. Things look much different in hindsight than they do when you are in the mist of them. I have many thoughts that I want to share with everyone here. Especially those that are just beginning this process.
I hope to come back and expand on this more, but the bottom line is that what I went through during my S is a once in a lifetime deal for me. While I am happier than I can put into words that I have a second chance to make my M work, I don't believe that I would go through what I did again. I see now that I was not the sole cause of the breakdown in our M. I put W on a pedestal during my sitch, and I think that I really minimized her flaws. I love her to death, but she is not perfect and she is difficult to get along with at times. I TOTALLY put those things out of my mind during my S.
I'm NOT recanting anything that I came to acknowledge about myself, nor the problems taht I caused. I'm just saying that I see how things came to be the way that they were. There is no question that W and I would slip back into that misery if both of us were not committed to NOT having that happen. And it is WORK. It really, really is. No matter how much change you make, no matter how much self discovery you do, it is work. I'm glad that I went through it, I'm glad that I made that choice, and I'm happy that I have that second chance. But I wouldn't do it again. It was too hard and too painful. And I was too hard on myself.
Just some thoughts that I have looking back.
Denver
A very quick update. The last 6 weeks or so have been pretty rough for W and I. I have to admit that things slid down hill after i looked at those phone records. I had a very difficult time putting that aside and my attitude towards W reflected my difficulty. I did what I had discussed here and told W that i was dealing with some things that had been triggered. I told her that I still have triggers, that I had to deal with them, and that I hoped that they would lessen with time.
W wasn't real thrilled with that answer, but she didn't tell me that. Later, when things blew up, she told me that she suspected that it had something to do with events that happened while we were separated and that she was angry that I didn't tell her what it was. I admitted a little more during that conversation, but not the specifics.
Her attitude towards me became guarded when she sensed that something was going on with me. That made me feel that she was distant and making other things in her life more of a priority than me and our M. Basically everything kind of snowballed.
Even during the past 6 weeks though, there have been ups. It hasn't been all bad. We have gone several days with things being pretty good and feeling pretty connected, and then we have gone through several days where things have been really distant between us.
We had a huge argument on Saturday night. Both of us let loose on one another. W telling me that I was reverting to old behaviors of withdrawing, me telling W that I had been withdrawing because she wasn't making me and our M a priority and that she wasn't even trying to pay attention to my love languages. W telling me that she was being distant because of my behavior, that I don't give things time to heal because I always seem mad at her. I don't know. It's basically a "chicken or the egg" dilemma. My actions have a causal effect on her actions, and vice versa. It is VERY difficult to break that cycle.
W left the house after the argument saying that she was going to go somewhere with one of her friends, that she wasn't going to waste her weekend arguing with me. About 10 minutes after she left, I called her and asked her if she wanted to just go to dinner and try to put the argument aside. She agreed and came back to the house. We ended up having a good night and rest of the weekend.
The argument was on Friday night. I have noticed that we have both been trying to "right" what we each complained about during that argument, for the past few days. I can see that W has made a conscious effort to be more physically affectionate, my love language, and I have tried to just put aside my feelings of frustration and get back to doing the things that helped me get to a point of reconciliation.
I have been doing a lot of thinking about the past couple of years. Things look much different in hindsight than they do when you are in the mist of them. I have many thoughts that I want to share with everyone here. Especially those that are just beginning this process.
I hope to come back and expand on this more, but the bottom line is that what I went through during my S is a once in a lifetime deal for me. While I am happier than I can put into words that I have a second chance to make my M work, I don't believe that I would go through what I did again. I see now that I was not the sole cause of the breakdown in our M. I put W on a pedestal during my sitch, and I think that I really minimized her flaws. I love her to death, but she is not perfect and she is difficult to get along with at times. I TOTALLY put those things out of my mind during my S.
I'm NOT recanting anything that I came to acknowledge about myself, nor the problems taht I caused. I'm just saying that I see how things came to be the way that they were. There is no question that W and I would slip back into that misery if both of us were not committed to NOT having that happen. And it is WORK. It really, really is. No matter how much change you make, no matter how much self discovery you do, it is work. I'm glad that I went through it, I'm glad that I made that choice, and I'm happy that I have that second chance. But I wouldn't do it again. It was too hard and too painful. And I was too hard on myself.
Just some thoughts that I have looking back.
Denver
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/26/13 08:30 PM
Wow, more thoughts later, Denver but that was a really heartfelt and excellent post. For now, just know that you are NOT the only one that has those kinds of feelings.
As the first sentence of that famous self-help book says, "Life is difficult."
Starsky
As the first sentence of that famous self-help book says, "Life is difficult."
Starsky
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/26/13 08:32 PM
"And I was too hard on myself."
Yes, you were. You can work on yourself without turning the gun on yourself. Hearing that one line makes me very, very happy. Keep fighting.
LIS
Yes, you were. You can work on yourself without turning the gun on yourself. Hearing that one line makes me very, very happy. Keep fighting.
LIS
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/26/13 09:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
We had a huge argument on Saturday night. Both of us let loose on one another. W telling me that I was reverting to old behaviors of withdrawing, me telling W that I had been withdrawing because she wasn't making me and our M a priority and that she wasn't even trying to pay attention to my love languages. W telling me that she was being distant because of my behavior, that I don't give things time to heal because I always seem mad at her. I don't know. It's basically a "chicken or the egg" dilemma.
Regarding 5LL, the most basic principal in that book is that if you want your love tank filled, you FIRST have to fill your spouse's tank
You state that your LL is not being filled by your W, but you also state what your reaction is to that- withdrawal. You are doing the OPPOSITE of what you need to do! It sounds clear that you both are running on empty again and both of you are reverting to old behavior- sitting back and getting more and more bitter while waiting for your spouse to come fill your love tank and wondering why they're not. So break the pattern, make the first move!
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/26/13 09:26 PM
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
We had a huge argument on Saturday night. Both of us let loose on one another. W telling me that I was reverting to old behaviors of withdrawing, me telling W that I had been withdrawing because she wasn't making me and our M a priority and that she wasn't even trying to pay attention to my love languages. W telling me that she was being distant because of my behavior, that I don't give things time to heal because I always seem mad at her. I don't know. It's basically a "chicken or the egg" dilemma.
On a level playing field, I would agree with you, AS. But as the formerly wayward spouse, I do believe that Denver's wife bears the greater burden here in trying to meet needs and speak LLs. Maybe that's the SSM, formerly-betrayed-husband in me, but I do think that view would also be backed up by the various infidelity authors and therapists out there.
Starsky
Regarding 5LL, the most basic principal in that book is that if you want your love tank filled, you FIRST have to fill your spouse's tank
You state that your LL is not being filled by your W, but you also state what your reaction is to that- withdrawal. You are doing the OPPOSITE of what you need to do! It sounds clear that you both are running on empty again and both of you are reverting to old behavior- sitting back and getting more and more bitter while waiting for your spouse to come fill your love tank and wondering why they're not. So break the pattern, make the first move!
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/26/13 09:27 PM
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
We had a huge argument on Saturday night. Both of us let loose on one another. W telling me that I was reverting to old behaviors of withdrawing, me telling W that I had been withdrawing because she wasn't making me and our M a priority and that she wasn't even trying to pay attention to my love languages. W telling me that she was being distant because of my behavior, that I don't give things time to heal because I always seem mad at her. I don't know. It's basically a "chicken or the egg" dilemma.
Regarding 5LL, the most basic principal in that book is that if you want your love tank filled, you FIRST have to fill your spouse's tank
You state that your LL is not being filled by your W, but you also state what your reaction is to that- withdrawal. You are doing the OPPOSITE of what you need to do! It sounds clear that you both are running on empty again and both of you are reverting to old behavior- sitting back and getting more and more bitter while waiting for your spouse to come fill your love tank and wondering why they're not. So break the pattern, make the first move! OK, I screwed up the formatting on my previous post. Here:
On a level playing field, I would agree with you, AS. But as the formerly wayward spouse, I do believe that Denver's wife bears the greater burden here in trying to meet needs and speak LLs. Maybe that's the SSM, formerly-betrayed-husband in me, but I do think that view would also be backed up by the various infidelity authors and therapists out there.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/26/13 11:55 PM
THIS is an important post for those in piecing and who want restored marriages, not just reconciliation....for many, the goal is to have a marriage better than ever before, and I think it's harder then, b/c you don't know what that looks like if you never had it to begin with.
For us, once upon a time our marriage was a great one. (I mean that, even now). We really put the other one first, but in a healthy way. It was so mutual and loving, it was a beautiful thing. Without that memory, there is no way I could have DBd.
And even now, I can say as much as my love has deepened for my h in many ways, DBing is a once in a life time thing for me as well....
gotcha
For us, once upon a time our marriage was a great one. (I mean that, even now). We really put the other one first, but in a healthy way. It was so mutual and loving, it was a beautiful thing. Without that memory, there is no way I could have DBd.
And even now, I can say as much as my love has deepened for my h in many ways, DBing is a once in a life time thing for me as well....
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
Hi LJGH2. I have not been around the boards much lately. Super busy with work, and with life. I will try to get over to your thread, but even today I only have a few minutes. Thanks for the support.
A very quick update. The last 6 weeks or so have been pretty rough for W and I. I have to admit that things slid down hill after i looked at those phone records. I had a very difficult time putting that aside and my attitude towards W reflected my difficulty.
Denver, to me, this^^ was self inflicted on your end. Sorry buddy but that's how I see it.
I won't even look at my journals from 05-07. I Can't. Why would I?
Makes me mad all over again.
Heck, If I want to re=hash the past to defend a divorce, I'll go see a "traditional marriage counselor."
I did what I had discussed here and told W that i was dealing with some things that had been triggered. I told her that I still have triggers, that I had to deal with them, and that I hoped that they would lessen with time.
Even though I agree with your reason for this^^^ (ie do not tell her you snooped) it is deceitful, which is what annoys you about HER PAST behavior...
W wasn't real thrilled with that answer, but she didn't tell me that. Later, when things blew up, she told me that she suspected that it had something to do with events that happened while we were separated and that she was angry that I didn't tell her what it was. I admitted a little more during that conversation, but not the specifics.
Her attitude towards me became guarded when she sensed that something was going on with me. That made me feel that she was distant and making other things in her life more of a priority than me and our M. Basically everything kind of snowballed.
Wow, lots of mind reading (negatively) on all sides...how's that working out?
Even during the past 6 weeks though, there have been ups. It hasn't been all bad. We have gone several days with things being pretty good and feeling pretty connected, a
tell us what you were doing or saying when those good times were happening. Remember, this is a solution based approach...do what works...
nd then we have gone through several days where things have been really distant between us.
We had a huge argument on Saturday night. Both of us let loose on one another. W telling me that I was reverting to old behaviors of withdrawing,
probably true^^^???
me telling W that I had been withdrawing because she wasn't making me and our M a priority and that she wasn't even trying to pay attention to my love languages.
Was that true, OR was it the old stuff you dug up? OR a mix?
W telling me that she was being distant because of my behavior, that I don't give things time to heal because I always seem mad at her.
Um Sweetie, YOU WERE MAD AT HER!...for stuff already over& done...
I don't know. It's basically a "chicken or the egg" dilemma. My actions have a causal effect on her actions, and vice versa. It is VERY difficult to break that cycle.
start simple. What's going on when things are good? Do more of that...learn to leave some things alone...
you were NOT "ready for anything" when you snooped...and then you lied about it.
How do you feel about that now?
W left the house after the argument saying that she was going to go somewhere with one of her friends, that she wasn't going to waste her weekend arguing with me. About 10 minutes after she left, I called her and asked her if she wanted to just go to dinner and try to put the argument aside. She agreed and came back to the house. We ended up having a good night and rest of the weekend.
so what'd you learn? That's kinda what this is all about, right?
The argument was on Friday night. I have noticed that we have both been trying to "right" what we each complained about during that argument, for the past few days. I can see that W has made a conscious effort to be more physically affectionate, my love language, and I have tried to just put aside my feelings of frustration and get back to doing the things that helped me get to a point of reconciliation.
I have been doing a lot of thinking about the past couple of years. Things look much different in hindsight than they do when you are in the mist of them. I have many thoughts that I want to share with everyone here. Especially those that are just beginning this process.
I hope to come back and expand on this more, but the bottom line is that what I went through during my S is a once in a lifetime deal for me.
I hear you and I get it. There's a thread w/my name on it (someone else started it) and on it, I mention RECENT issues coming up for my kids. My youngest, really, d15.
She resents h and all along this DB road, I somehow assumed MY forgiveness work and MY changes in the marriage
would filter down to the kids. It's as if I thought they had gone to Retrovaille with us...but they did not. H unexpectedly got deployed to the Middle East (returned at Christmas). He saw & treated some unspeakably horrible things so that's also an issue for us... Nonetheless
h is trying to be/feel less alienated within our family. And, It is WORK. But we are trying to show these young people a legacy of commitment, forgiveness and redemption...and to enjoy it ourselves.
or so I tell myself.
While I am happier than I can put into words that I have a second chance to make my M work, I don't believe that I would go through what I did again.
Yep. I get that.
I see now that I was not the sole cause of the breakdown in our M. I put W on a pedestal during my sitch, and I think that I really minimized her flaws. I love her to death, but she is not perfect and she is difficult to get along with at times. I TOTALLY put those things out of my mind during my S.
I think a lot of LBSers do this^^^. They come here and tell us their marriage was "totally fine until..." or "all was great except for OP"...but in reality there are flaws that come when you combine two flawed people and put them into a committed R for life...
I'm NOT recanting anything that I came to acknowledge about myself, nor the problems taht I caused. I'm just saying that I see how things came to be the way that they were. There is no question that W and I would slip back into that misery if both of us were not committed to NOT having that happen. And it is WORK. It really, really is. No matter how much change you make, no matter how much self discovery you do, it is work. I'm glad that I went through it, I'm glad that I made that choice, and I'm happy that I have that second chance. But I wouldn't do it again. It was too hard and too painful. And I was too hard on myself.
Just some thoughts that I have looking back.
Denver
A very quick update. The last 6 weeks or so have been pretty rough for W and I. I have to admit that things slid down hill after i looked at those phone records. I had a very difficult time putting that aside and my attitude towards W reflected my difficulty.
Denver, to me, this^^ was self inflicted on your end. Sorry buddy but that's how I see it.
I won't even look at my journals from 05-07. I Can't. Why would I?
Makes me mad all over again.
Heck, If I want to re=hash the past to defend a divorce, I'll go see a "traditional marriage counselor."
I did what I had discussed here and told W that i was dealing with some things that had been triggered. I told her that I still have triggers, that I had to deal with them, and that I hoped that they would lessen with time.
Even though I agree with your reason for this^^^ (ie do not tell her you snooped) it is deceitful, which is what annoys you about HER PAST behavior...
W wasn't real thrilled with that answer, but she didn't tell me that. Later, when things blew up, she told me that she suspected that it had something to do with events that happened while we were separated and that she was angry that I didn't tell her what it was. I admitted a little more during that conversation, but not the specifics.
Her attitude towards me became guarded when she sensed that something was going on with me. That made me feel that she was distant and making other things in her life more of a priority than me and our M. Basically everything kind of snowballed.
Wow, lots of mind reading (negatively) on all sides...how's that working out?
Even during the past 6 weeks though, there have been ups. It hasn't been all bad. We have gone several days with things being pretty good and feeling pretty connected, a
tell us what you were doing or saying when those good times were happening. Remember, this is a solution based approach...do what works...
nd then we have gone through several days where things have been really distant between us.
We had a huge argument on Saturday night. Both of us let loose on one another. W telling me that I was reverting to old behaviors of withdrawing,
probably true^^^???
me telling W that I had been withdrawing because she wasn't making me and our M a priority and that she wasn't even trying to pay attention to my love languages.
Was that true, OR was it the old stuff you dug up? OR a mix?
W telling me that she was being distant because of my behavior, that I don't give things time to heal because I always seem mad at her.
Um Sweetie, YOU WERE MAD AT HER!...for stuff already over& done...
I don't know. It's basically a "chicken or the egg" dilemma. My actions have a causal effect on her actions, and vice versa. It is VERY difficult to break that cycle.
start simple. What's going on when things are good? Do more of that...learn to leave some things alone...
you were NOT "ready for anything" when you snooped...and then you lied about it.
How do you feel about that now?
W left the house after the argument saying that she was going to go somewhere with one of her friends, that she wasn't going to waste her weekend arguing with me. About 10 minutes after she left, I called her and asked her if she wanted to just go to dinner and try to put the argument aside. She agreed and came back to the house. We ended up having a good night and rest of the weekend.
so what'd you learn? That's kinda what this is all about, right?
The argument was on Friday night. I have noticed that we have both been trying to "right" what we each complained about during that argument, for the past few days. I can see that W has made a conscious effort to be more physically affectionate, my love language, and I have tried to just put aside my feelings of frustration and get back to doing the things that helped me get to a point of reconciliation.
I have been doing a lot of thinking about the past couple of years. Things look much different in hindsight than they do when you are in the mist of them. I have many thoughts that I want to share with everyone here. Especially those that are just beginning this process.
I hope to come back and expand on this more, but the bottom line is that what I went through during my S is a once in a lifetime deal for me.
I hear you and I get it. There's a thread w/my name on it (someone else started it) and on it, I mention RECENT issues coming up for my kids. My youngest, really, d15.
She resents h and all along this DB road, I somehow assumed MY forgiveness work and MY changes in the marriage
would filter down to the kids. It's as if I thought they had gone to Retrovaille with us...but they did not. H unexpectedly got deployed to the Middle East (returned at Christmas). He saw & treated some unspeakably horrible things so that's also an issue for us... Nonetheless
h is trying to be/feel less alienated within our family. And, It is WORK. But we are trying to show these young people a legacy of commitment, forgiveness and redemption...and to enjoy it ourselves.
or so I tell myself.
While I am happier than I can put into words that I have a second chance to make my M work, I don't believe that I would go through what I did again.
Yep. I get that.
I see now that I was not the sole cause of the breakdown in our M. I put W on a pedestal during my sitch, and I think that I really minimized her flaws. I love her to death, but she is not perfect and she is difficult to get along with at times. I TOTALLY put those things out of my mind during my S.
I think a lot of LBSers do this^^^. They come here and tell us their marriage was "totally fine until..." or "all was great except for OP"...but in reality there are flaws that come when you combine two flawed people and put them into a committed R for life...
I'm NOT recanting anything that I came to acknowledge about myself, nor the problems taht I caused. I'm just saying that I see how things came to be the way that they were. There is no question that W and I would slip back into that misery if both of us were not committed to NOT having that happen. And it is WORK. It really, really is. No matter how much change you make, no matter how much self discovery you do, it is work. I'm glad that I went through it, I'm glad that I made that choice, and I'm happy that I have that second chance. But I wouldn't do it again. It was too hard and too painful. And I was too hard on myself.
Just some thoughts that I have looking back.
Denver
gotcha
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/27/13 04:04 AM
I think the LBS has a tremendous amount of residual pain from the feeling of being deserted/abandoned. I don't know if it ever heals completely?
I would never go through it again, either.
I would never go through it again, either.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/27/13 04:26 PM
Denver, I have to say, I'm surprised you guys don't have transparency at this point. I would have thought that would have been one of your requirements to start piecing.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/27/13 05:12 PM
Starsky....remember...Denver's wife felt just as left behind and abandoned as Denver did
in order to come back together and work at it together...it can not come from a point of whom owes whom more
they were both wronged and both did wrong
it is not tit for tat
in order to come back together and work at it together...it can not come from a point of whom owes whom more
they were both wronged and both did wrong
it is not tit for tat
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/27/13 05:37 PM
Originally Posted By: figgeroni
Starsky....remember...Denver's wife felt just as left behind and abandoned as Denver did
in order to come back together and work at it together...it can not come from a point of whom owes whom more
they were both wronged and both did wrong
it is not tit for tat
in order to come back together and work at it together...it can not come from a point of whom owes whom more
they were both wronged and both did wrong
it is not tit for tat
Sorry, we will just have to flat-out disagree here, Figg. And again, this is not just my opinion -- MCs and FTs specifically trained in dealing with infidelity will tell you that there are concrete things that a formerly-wayward spouse needs to do, over a period of time, in order to regain the trust of the betrayed spouse.
I'm not saying that Denver didn't have his own contributions to the marital dysfunction, nor am I saying this is a "100/0" proposition. But it's not a "50/50" one, either, at least not for the first couple of years. A spouse who makes the destructive choice to have an affair has to earn their way back into the marriage.
Starsky
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/27/13 05:58 PM
Man your posts are always so relate able to me, so thanks.
I really look forward to hearing more about you looking back in hindsight on your thoughts of wife during initial sitch. I have a degree of guilt in this department as well.
I really look forward to hearing more about you looking back in hindsight on your thoughts of wife during initial sitch. I have a degree of guilt in this department as well.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/27/13 06:04 PM
Wow... I'm surprised that my last post got so many replies. Both here and on the newcomers board.
I do have transparency Bill. W has actually been really good about that. That has not been the problem. The transparency let me to look at old phone records from the months of our S, thinking that I could handle what I found. I was wrong. 25 is right, that was self inflicted. No doubt.
Anyway, I want to spend more time than I have to respond to everyone, so I will come back, hopefully in the next day or two.
Denver
I do have transparency Bill. W has actually been really good about that. That has not been the problem. The transparency let me to look at old phone records from the months of our S, thinking that I could handle what I found. I was wrong. 25 is right, that was self inflicted. No doubt.
Anyway, I want to spend more time than I have to respond to everyone, so I will come back, hopefully in the next day or two.
Denver
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/27/13 06:08 PM
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
We had a huge argument on Saturday night. Both of us let loose on one another. W telling me that I was reverting to old behaviors of withdrawing, me telling W that I had been withdrawing because she wasn't making me and our M a priority and that she wasn't even trying to pay attention to my love languages. W telling me that she was being distant because of my behavior, that I don't give things time to heal because I always seem mad at her. I don't know. It's basically a "chicken or the egg" dilemma.
Regarding 5LL, the most basic principal in that book is that if you want your love tank filled, you FIRST have to fill your spouse's tank
You state that your LL is not being filled by your W, but you also state what your reaction is to that- withdrawal. You are doing the OPPOSITE of what you need to do! It sounds clear that you both are running on empty again and both of you are reverting to old behavior- sitting back and getting more and more bitter while waiting for your spouse to come fill your love tank and wondering why they're not. So break the pattern, make the first move! Have to agree with AS here. I've played that "chicken or the egg" dilemma for a looong time. I've just recently started to to try to fill W love tank first.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/27/13 10:30 PM
Originally Posted By: figgeroni
Starsky....remember...Denver's wife felt just as left behind and abandoned as Denver did
in order to come back together and work at it together...it can not come from a point of whom owes whom more
they were both wronged and both did wrong
it is not tit for tat
in order to come back together and work at it together...it can not come from a point of whom owes whom more
they were both wronged and both did wrong
it is not tit for tat
IF I recall correctly, the "A" was not before the BD but after,
AND after a sep...
No, I'm not saying it's "alright then"
but surely it's not the same as an affair that comes out of the blue & CAUSES the BD...didn't happen in that order, or so I thought.
ALSO, One of Denver's wife's complaints before/while the ordeal began, was how SHE saw his interactions w/OWs. She often felt insecure around him and OWs...
In her view, (and I don't know if it was justified. I recall thinking it was, but can't recall specifics enough now)...
Denver was flirtatious w/OWs, even while his w was with him (=disrespecting her, in her view)
and she often wondered about "affairs" of his...
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 02/28/13 08:33 AM
Denver,
I wanted to ask you about your SS...now. Did you guys tell him the full truth about OM? How do YOU feel your r is with your ss?
If you saw my post on the thread w/my screen name, I've run into some recent issues with my youngest, d15. She really resents my h. Her older siblings have their issues w/him too, but she's the one I'm most concerned with atm.
Granted, she is 15. Some of her attitude is...her attitude. But I'm positive it's not just her age. She's angry and what I now realize is, that whatever work h and I did to reconcile, was NOT something that automatically filtered into her world or her heart.
It is almost as if I thought she'd gone to Retrovaille with us. Not consciously, (duh.)
But somehow I assumed if WE reconciled, everyone would be on board. So there is yet another chapter. Plus, before this, my MIL passed away.
Point being, life keeps throwing us curve balls and we keep needing tools and communication keeps needing to be given, & with effort. Commitments need to be made and then renewed, and so...
the work continues.
But if we had not reconciled, there'd still be work.
It would be a different kind of work and we'd be apart doing it.
So no, I don't regret the recon, but I regret taking certain aspects of it for granted. I was so focussed on MY changes and the r between h and me, and I believed that our m being renewed and restored was naturally in the children's best interest.
Though I still believe that, I wish we had involved them more with the whole process. Not sure how to do that, since it is a marriage of h and w. But we are also a family...
just food for thought. *(Maybe Starsky or Sandi can address how things went for them vis a vis their children's attitudes, a few years later on in life.)
Keep posting, it's a good topic that Div Remedy does not fully address...
I wanted to ask you about your SS...now. Did you guys tell him the full truth about OM? How do YOU feel your r is with your ss?
If you saw my post on the thread w/my screen name, I've run into some recent issues with my youngest, d15. She really resents my h. Her older siblings have their issues w/him too, but she's the one I'm most concerned with atm.
Granted, she is 15. Some of her attitude is...her attitude. But I'm positive it's not just her age. She's angry and what I now realize is, that whatever work h and I did to reconcile, was NOT something that automatically filtered into her world or her heart.
It is almost as if I thought she'd gone to Retrovaille with us. Not consciously, (duh.)
But somehow I assumed if WE reconciled, everyone would be on board. So there is yet another chapter. Plus, before this, my MIL passed away.
Point being, life keeps throwing us curve balls and we keep needing tools and communication keeps needing to be given, & with effort. Commitments need to be made and then renewed, and so...
the work continues.
But if we had not reconciled, there'd still be work.
It would be a different kind of work and we'd be apart doing it.
So no, I don't regret the recon, but I regret taking certain aspects of it for granted. I was so focussed on MY changes and the r between h and me, and I believed that our m being renewed and restored was naturally in the children's best interest.
Though I still believe that, I wish we had involved them more with the whole process. Not sure how to do that, since it is a marriage of h and w. But we are also a family...
just food for thought. *(Maybe Starsky or Sandi can address how things went for them vis a vis their children's attitudes, a few years later on in life.)
Keep posting, it's a good topic that Div Remedy does not fully address...
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 03/01/13 03:44 AM
25...
that was the point I was trying to make...
thank you
that was the point I was trying to make...
thank you
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 03/01/13 05:17 AM
The kid thing terrifies me, personally. While D was not even born yet, one could argue her conception is what sent H off on the deep end. And if she ever were to find out the horrible things he suggested while he was insane??? She'd never forgive him. I'm not sure I can ever forgive him.
As a child of divorced parents due to an A, I have never fully forgiven my father. Although I actually think it was better for my parents to be divorced (I think they are both happier and better parents for it), I still loathe my father to some degree for the way he went about it. And that was well over a decade ago.
Sorry for the hijack.
As a child of divorced parents due to an A, I have never fully forgiven my father. Although I actually think it was better for my parents to be divorced (I think they are both happier and better parents for it), I still loathe my father to some degree for the way he went about it. And that was well over a decade ago.
Sorry for the hijack.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 03/01/13 06:44 AM
hijack or not (not my thread so I apologize for being out of line)
but that feedback is needed around here. DB does cover it in a way, at the beginning when MWD talks about her experience as a child of divorce.
But there's no advice about HOW to navigate these issues with the children, with or without a reconciliation.
(On my thread, or a thread w/my name on it, this is being discussed).
My parents probably should have divorced--I always said that. Now, I wonder b/c that's tough to know.
Would my mom, a beautfiul woman w/artistic flair and musical talent, but a mother of NINE, really have found a Prince Charming?
Wouldn't it have been better if my dad had simply gotten better coping skills and not drank so much?
(In fairness to him, he had some strikes against him not of his making...but then the choices he made in reaction to those bad events, sukked).
Anyhow, back to you Denver...how are you?
but that feedback is needed around here. DB does cover it in a way, at the beginning when MWD talks about her experience as a child of divorce.
But there's no advice about HOW to navigate these issues with the children, with or without a reconciliation.
(On my thread, or a thread w/my name on it, this is being discussed).
My parents probably should have divorced--I always said that. Now, I wonder b/c that's tough to know.
Would my mom, a beautfiul woman w/artistic flair and musical talent, but a mother of NINE, really have found a Prince Charming?
Wouldn't it have been better if my dad had simply gotten better coping skills and not drank so much?
(In fairness to him, he had some strikes against him not of his making...but then the choices he made in reaction to those bad events, sukked).
Anyhow, back to you Denver...how are you?
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 03/08/13 03:50 AM
Denver - how are you? Are you and w doing the weekend to remember again?
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 03/12/13 10:46 PM
No plans to do the weekend to remember again. We will, just no plans right now.
I'm sorry that I've disappeared. It is crazy how busy things are right now. Another hindsight revelation... I wish that I had enjoyed the 'life vacation' that I took for 18 months while my W was away. It was a good opportunity to just let my mind rest and I didn't use it.
Anyway, I do want to reply to everything that everyone has posted, and I will. I just can't right now.
Everything is going really well with W. The best that it's been in a couple of months actually.
Thanks for everyone's support. Be back soon!
I'm sorry that I've disappeared. It is crazy how busy things are right now. Another hindsight revelation... I wish that I had enjoyed the 'life vacation' that I took for 18 months while my W was away. It was a good opportunity to just let my mind rest and I didn't use it.
Anyway, I do want to reply to everything that everyone has posted, and I will. I just can't right now.
Everything is going really well with W. The best that it's been in a couple of months actually.
Thanks for everyone's support. Be back soon!
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 03/26/13 04:44 PM
Had to change my name for privacy reasons.
Still on here daily but haven't updated my sitch. Always seem to have a hard time explaining things, so I figured I'd just start typing and see where it takes me...this may be all over the place so I apologize ahead of time.
All in all things have been going really well. In fact if you told me when our sitch/BD started in May that we'd be where we are now, I never would have believed it. I am so grateful to have another chance with the love of my life.
Saying that, I still struggle a lot. Not knowing what the future holds is something I have a hard time dealing with. We still haven't had a R talk since October. (We started piecing in June, but I found out in October that she still had "just friendly" contact with OM. When I found out I basically dropped the rope and she instantly had a change of heart and said she was committed to our M 100% . She wrote me a letter you can see in my first thread).
Although all her actions point to her still feeling the same way she felt when she wrote the letter, its been 6 months since then and I still feel like I want her to tell me. To confirm her actions.
I been tempted just to ask her but I guess I'm scared. I'm scared she told me everything I wanted to hear in the heat of the moment of me dropping the rope and that she may still not feel that way and just isnt telling me.
She told me so many hurtful things during BD in May (ILYBINILWY, hadn't been attracted to me in a long time, had 1 foot out the door, etc) and it still makes me second guess everything.
Although it has slowly seemed to get better, the trust still isn't 100% back. I've checked the phone bills a couple times over the last couple months and as soon as I open them up my stomach starts to go in knots.
I know all of this stuff is going to take time, but I'd be lying if I didn't say thoughts of my M don't consume much of my thoughts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last week, for the first time in a long time, our sitch kind of came up. W came to me in the morning sobbing after she dropped the kids of at school. She said she saw our family friend that originally exposed her A. (Side note: This family friend saw her kissing OM in his car at the kids school, she then called to tell my sister and my brother. My brother then called my W to tell her she needed to tell me or he would. That started the ball rolling on sitch).
So when W saw this friend when she was dropping kids she started thinking about "what if our kids find out what she did". She said she didn't want to talk about it but she just wanted to tell me why she was upset. I validated and told her I'm here if she wants to talk about it.
To be honest it was nice to hear her feelings of guilt. I know that's sounds bad, but she never expressed that much guilt to me and the only time she apologized for A was during MC when she was kind of put on the spot. I was hoping this guilt, or whatever it was, would bring her closer to me, but it didn't really seem to.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sex has been pretty limited the last few weeks. Whenever this happens I find the many of the negative thoughts mentioned above ^^^^ building up. She denied many of my advances over this time but I've tried to remain compassionate and understanding. I finally asked her about it last night (after getting rejected again). She said she just hasn't been feeling sexual lately. She believes its from stress related to starting her new business and its potential impact on our finances and us.
I'm obviously understanding to this but I have a hard time wondering if anything else is bothering her. She said there isn't so I have to leave it at that.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry for the long post. I don't want to seem overly negative, I tend to come on here to vent
Still on here daily but haven't updated my sitch. Always seem to have a hard time explaining things, so I figured I'd just start typing and see where it takes me...this may be all over the place so I apologize ahead of time.
All in all things have been going really well. In fact if you told me when our sitch/BD started in May that we'd be where we are now, I never would have believed it. I am so grateful to have another chance with the love of my life.
Saying that, I still struggle a lot. Not knowing what the future holds is something I have a hard time dealing with. We still haven't had a R talk since October. (We started piecing in June, but I found out in October that she still had "just friendly" contact with OM. When I found out I basically dropped the rope and she instantly had a change of heart and said she was committed to our M 100% . She wrote me a letter you can see in my first thread).
Although all her actions point to her still feeling the same way she felt when she wrote the letter, its been 6 months since then and I still feel like I want her to tell me. To confirm her actions.
I been tempted just to ask her but I guess I'm scared. I'm scared she told me everything I wanted to hear in the heat of the moment of me dropping the rope and that she may still not feel that way and just isnt telling me.
She told me so many hurtful things during BD in May (ILYBINILWY, hadn't been attracted to me in a long time, had 1 foot out the door, etc) and it still makes me second guess everything.
Although it has slowly seemed to get better, the trust still isn't 100% back. I've checked the phone bills a couple times over the last couple months and as soon as I open them up my stomach starts to go in knots.
I know all of this stuff is going to take time, but I'd be lying if I didn't say thoughts of my M don't consume much of my thoughts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last week, for the first time in a long time, our sitch kind of came up. W came to me in the morning sobbing after she dropped the kids of at school. She said she saw our family friend that originally exposed her A. (Side note: This family friend saw her kissing OM in his car at the kids school, she then called to tell my sister and my brother. My brother then called my W to tell her she needed to tell me or he would. That started the ball rolling on sitch).
So when W saw this friend when she was dropping kids she started thinking about "what if our kids find out what she did". She said she didn't want to talk about it but she just wanted to tell me why she was upset. I validated and told her I'm here if she wants to talk about it.
To be honest it was nice to hear her feelings of guilt. I know that's sounds bad, but she never expressed that much guilt to me and the only time she apologized for A was during MC when she was kind of put on the spot. I was hoping this guilt, or whatever it was, would bring her closer to me, but it didn't really seem to.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sex has been pretty limited the last few weeks. Whenever this happens I find the many of the negative thoughts mentioned above ^^^^ building up. She denied many of my advances over this time but I've tried to remain compassionate and understanding. I finally asked her about it last night (after getting rejected again). She said she just hasn't been feeling sexual lately. She believes its from stress related to starting her new business and its potential impact on our finances and us.
I'm obviously understanding to this but I have a hard time wondering if anything else is bothering her. She said there isn't so I have to leave it at that.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry for the long post. I don't want to seem overly negative, I tend to come on here to vent
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 03/26/13 04:46 PM
sh!t, sorry I meant to post this on my thread 
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 04/05/13 02:13 AM
Uggg... after a very good, but very busy, few weeks, I am stumbling right now.
I still want to respond to so many of the posts on this thread as well as the one in newcomers that I posted 'in hindsight', I simply don't have the energy right now.
W and I were getting along great all through March. Just a very, very good month. She had a singing gig in Charlotte and I went with her. Good trip. I had a minor medical procedure the next week, she took care of me. Prior to that part, she and I really being close, emotionally, physically, everything.
So... earlier this week... a few days after my medical procedure. Issue comes up with step son. I discipline him for being disrespectful. I probably overreacted and responded too quickly without taking a breath and a minute to cool off. Nothing bad, just took away internet for the night and it is his spring break. W disagreed with me and essentially forced me to change my decision. She did not talk to me about her disagreement rationally, so it turned into an argument where I ended up just changing my decision on the internet for SS.
I felt undermined. I withdrew and just went to bed. W and I have not really spoken for three days. Now she's on her way to another gig in Arkansas for the weekend.
I get sick of always being the one who says that the argument is simply not worth it and just apologizing for the sake of getting things straight and preserving the marriage. I feel that i am always the one who does that. W sits back and waits for it.
At what point to I draw the line??
I know that I'm being a baby about this. I know that I'm being a typical male by withdrawing. But F*&K!
Very frustrated right now.
Denver
I still want to respond to so many of the posts on this thread as well as the one in newcomers that I posted 'in hindsight', I simply don't have the energy right now.
W and I were getting along great all through March. Just a very, very good month. She had a singing gig in Charlotte and I went with her. Good trip. I had a minor medical procedure the next week, she took care of me. Prior to that part, she and I really being close, emotionally, physically, everything.
So... earlier this week... a few days after my medical procedure. Issue comes up with step son. I discipline him for being disrespectful. I probably overreacted and responded too quickly without taking a breath and a minute to cool off. Nothing bad, just took away internet for the night and it is his spring break. W disagreed with me and essentially forced me to change my decision. She did not talk to me about her disagreement rationally, so it turned into an argument where I ended up just changing my decision on the internet for SS.
I felt undermined. I withdrew and just went to bed. W and I have not really spoken for three days. Now she's on her way to another gig in Arkansas for the weekend.
I get sick of always being the one who says that the argument is simply not worth it and just apologizing for the sake of getting things straight and preserving the marriage. I feel that i am always the one who does that. W sits back and waits for it.
At what point to I draw the line??
I know that I'm being a baby about this. I know that I'm being a typical male by withdrawing. But F*&K!
Very frustrated right now.
Denver
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 04/05/13 02:25 AM
Have you tried talking to her about these things away from your SS? Is this her biological son?
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 04/05/13 12:38 PM
Denver, I live in a step situation. My H has done the same thing to me. I don't believe he would have done it to the kids bio mom.
I backed off of disciplining my steps and left it up to their father. However, I became resentful because he felt too guilty to do much disciplining.
It's so hard to be in a step family. I wish I had the answers for you but the only thing that worked for my marriage was for the stepkids to reach adulthood and finally get their own lives.
I backed off of disciplining my steps and left it up to their father. However, I became resentful because he felt too guilty to do much disciplining.
It's so hard to be in a step family. I wish I had the answers for you but the only thing that worked for my marriage was for the stepkids to reach adulthood and finally get their own lives.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 04/05/13 01:07 PM
Thanks SS...
Bond, yes, we have talked about it numerous times outside of SS's presence. She doesn't usually undermine me in front of him, it's more like it's after I decide something, SS is upset, in another room, and then she does it. But it's still undermining me.
W wants me to be involved with all aspects of raising SS, including discipline, but she wants to be able to have the ability to overrule me. She's fine with it when she is in agreement or when she doesn't want to deal with the stress of it herself. But then when she doesn't agree with me, or she feels badly for ss, then she feels that she can overrule me. It wouldn't be like that if ss were our bio child. And that is frustrating for me. I feel that if I'm to be involved with discipline, then I have to have the power/authority to carry it out.
We have talked about it and agree that she and I should generally try to talk to each other before doing anything. But that isn't always possible and sometimes, one of us will be put in a position where we have to act at the moment.
One thing that I point out to her is that I NEVER overrule her and ALWAYS back her up in front of ss... even when I think that she is wrong or overreacting.
Also, the reality is that I am the only person in SS's life who he really is afraid of... 'afraid' in the sense that he will think twice before misbehaving with me around. During our separation, ss was completely out of control. He has been much, much better since we began reconciliation. W has admitted as much, but gives credit to ss maturing vs. the fact that I am around.
Just very frustrating...
In any case, we were talking by the time that I took her to the airport this morning and we hugged and had a goodbye kiss before I left. So things were better.
Bond, yes, we have talked about it numerous times outside of SS's presence. She doesn't usually undermine me in front of him, it's more like it's after I decide something, SS is upset, in another room, and then she does it. But it's still undermining me.
W wants me to be involved with all aspects of raising SS, including discipline, but she wants to be able to have the ability to overrule me. She's fine with it when she is in agreement or when she doesn't want to deal with the stress of it herself. But then when she doesn't agree with me, or she feels badly for ss, then she feels that she can overrule me. It wouldn't be like that if ss were our bio child. And that is frustrating for me. I feel that if I'm to be involved with discipline, then I have to have the power/authority to carry it out.
We have talked about it and agree that she and I should generally try to talk to each other before doing anything. But that isn't always possible and sometimes, one of us will be put in a position where we have to act at the moment.
One thing that I point out to her is that I NEVER overrule her and ALWAYS back her up in front of ss... even when I think that she is wrong or overreacting.
Also, the reality is that I am the only person in SS's life who he really is afraid of... 'afraid' in the sense that he will think twice before misbehaving with me around. During our separation, ss was completely out of control. He has been much, much better since we began reconciliation. W has admitted as much, but gives credit to ss maturing vs. the fact that I am around.
Just very frustrating...
In any case, we were talking by the time that I took her to the airport this morning and we hugged and had a goodbye kiss before I left. So things were better.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 04/05/13 06:31 PM
as the bio-parent in a step situation, I wanted to weigh in
I know that I react the same way when Cori disciplines our boys (almost typed my...does that clue you in to where she is coming from?)
It doesn't matter that he has,by far, been the most stable male role model in their lives...doesn't matter that he loves them like his own
because ultimately...they are mine...I am responsible
there is a level of resentment when he disciplines them, I have to admit...I cringe when I say that...
I feel guilt when he disciplines them...like I am his mom and I should be doing it...so it is hard, a struggle really, not to override any punishment that Cori gives them.
It is a hard balancing act for sure
I know that I react the same way when Cori disciplines our boys (almost typed my...does that clue you in to where she is coming from?)
It doesn't matter that he has,by far, been the most stable male role model in their lives...doesn't matter that he loves them like his own
because ultimately...they are mine...I am responsible
there is a level of resentment when he disciplines them, I have to admit...I cringe when I say that...
I feel guilt when he disciplines them...like I am his mom and I should be doing it...so it is hard, a struggle really, not to override any punishment that Cori gives them.
It is a hard balancing act for sure
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 04/06/13 10:12 PM
Thanks Fig. I know that it is. Step parenting is very difficult. You don't get much credit for the good things, and you get a lot of criticism, and resentment, when you mess up or don't live up to the standards that the bio parent has set in their minds.
It is, by far, the most difficult issue that W and I have between us.
It is, by far, the most difficult issue that W and I have between us.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 04/09/13 02:42 AM
for sure...
often (when removed from the immediate situation) I feel horrible for Cori...he is basically in a no-win situation (just like you)
I mean...
if he makes the "right" choice, according to my mind...I basically take the credit anyway and he is the bad guy for disciplining them (to the boys) and if he doesn't choose the way I would then I get angry and feel like he doesn't understand them or us and how could he do that and...
it's tough and puts an awful strain on the situation
often (when removed from the immediate situation) I feel horrible for Cori...he is basically in a no-win situation (just like you)
I mean...
if he makes the "right" choice, according to my mind...I basically take the credit anyway and he is the bad guy for disciplining them (to the boys) and if he doesn't choose the way I would then I get angry and feel like he doesn't understand them or us and how could he do that and...
it's tough and puts an awful strain on the situation
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 04/19/13 01:18 PM
Bond could you stop by my thread.?? Hope you are well.
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 05/19/13 01:38 AM
How is everyone? I haven't been around much. Very busy with work and family etc. I just thought I'd stop by to say hello and let everyone know that things are still moving along with my R. My wife and I definitely have ups and downs and are still trying to figure it all out. R was definitely easier the first couple of months after we decided to do it than it is now. And I'm sure that both of us have questioned whether it was the right choice. We are both committed to it though, and somehow get through the rough times and back to the good times. The tools that I learned by going through this process, and here, have definitely helped.
I will try to start posting again when things slow down. I certainly haven't forgotten about this place...
I will try to start posting again when things slow down. I certainly haven't forgotten about this place...
Re: Piecing - Round 2 - 06/18/13 05:07 AM
Hey Denver,
Just stopping by to say what's up ! Hope all is well with you and family.
Newman
Just stopping by to say what's up ! Hope all is well with you and family.
Newman