It’s been a little over 3 months since my W and I have agreed to reconcile.
My W moved back to the Bay Area at the end of July and things are going relatively well thus far. We have disagreements, however our communication is much better.
During a disagreement about a week ago she brought up some issues in regards to how I handled certain things during the divorce proceedings. Specifically that I had several mutual friends and church members write declarations to rebut everything that my W and her attorney wrote about me during our custody hearing. She didn’t and doesn’t understand why I did what I did given that statistically, custody is awarded to the mother.
My response was that I am their father and it is my obligation to fight for them. It wasn’t about her and I’d fight for them no matter who or what stood in my way. It was about doing what was right for me as their father. I told her if I lived my life based on statistics, I wouldn’t be standing in front of her at that moment.
There was a lot more to that convo, but that is the gist of it. We hashed it out and moved on. Different perspectives.
This weekend we are attending Retrovaille, which I am really looking forward to.
All in all, I am happy with where we are today and the path we find ourselves on.
That is awesome LITB! I'm really happy for you.
Sounds like you handled that conversation as well as you could. My W and I have had similar conversations since we decided to R, albeit about different topics. Sometimes, we just agree to disagree. It's WAY more important to me to be happy... rather than right. And it seems that my W has learned that lesson as well.
Take care. I look forward to reading more about your progress.
Denver
Oh! I meant to mention another fantastic marriage retreat that I would really recommend. It's called "A weekend to Remember" put on by a group called "family life" (I believe). My W and I did it in March, before we had gotten to R, and it was really, really good. We plan on going again in the near future.
Little bit I am happy to see that she is back in the bay area with you but as we are all happy for you, just like Denver please keep up your progress reports. I really do feel that it is sort of therapy for us that did not R. Reading what happens when some WAS come to there senses and all of us LBS that have taken a hard look at ourselves during this marathon or ultra as Jbanti says. Anyway keep a PMA and it seems like everything will fall into place. Take care and best of luck
Scott
Thanks Denver and Scott, I appreciate it.
Sounds like you handled that conversation as well as you could. My W and I have had similar conversations since we decided to R, albeit about different topics. Sometimes, we just agree to disagree. It's WAY more important to me to be happy... rather than right. And it seems that my W has learned that lesson as well.
Take care. I look forward to reading more about your progress.
It’s amazing how different we come out of the other end of this hell.
You are right. It’s better to be happy.
I remember right after my W and I reconciled, we were having a convo. While her and I were separated, I became really close friends with one of her cousins and her cousin’s H. Anyhow, my W didn’t appreciate our friendship and she said something about it, but she was indirect. I replied to her, this is what you said, and this is what my interpretation is.
She was trying to say that she didn’t like the fact that I had become close with them without saying it. The point is, she stopped, and realized how unclear she had just communicated to me. That’s the same way she would communicate her displeasure before the bomb. In her mind, she thought that she was clear about her unhappiness.
Now I’m just rambling. lol
Oh! I meant to mention another fantastic marriage retreat that I would really recommend. It's called "A weekend to Remember" put on by a group called "family life" (I believe). My W and I did it in March, before we had gotten to R, and it was really, really good. We plan on going again in the near future.
I’ll have to keep that one in mind. Thanks again.
Hi LITB-
Am so very happy for you and your family. I wish you all the best at Retrovaille.
(((((( )))))
Busting
Hi LITB, Thank you for sharing your R with us. It is inspiring and it also makes me so happy to see good things happen to such a nice person!
Thank you for your kind words NG. I appreciate them.
Denver…..Retrovaille was quite an experience. It helped my W and I learn to communicate in a different way and a different level. Apparently I can express my feelings better on paper than I can verbally. Lol
It was some serious work. We came away from the weekend emotionally exhausted. The platform and methods of dialoging are simple, yet eye opening. We touched on things that aren’t part of our everyday conversations, which helped us learn things about each other that we otherwise wouldn’t have known. Hell, I learned things about myself that I didn’t know.
If you and your W ever entertain the idea of attending, I’d highly recommend it.
There were a total of 19 couples in attendance and 3 presenting couples. The presenting couples shared their experiences, which says a lot about how much they believe in the program. Their situations made my situation look like a walk in the park, so it was quite inspirational.
On Friday night when the program began, I could feel that some couples had little to no hope. At the end of the program on Sunday, you could see and feel the transformation in some of their relationships. It was profound. To be clear, this didn’t happen for every couple. All things considered, it was an overall success for most everyone in attendance.
We have our first post date this Saturday. I’m looking forward to it.
Hopefully you didn’t notice that I told you a lot without telling you anything.
LOL! I did NOT notice! I think that was the best description of it that I've read. Sounds like a great experience. I'm really happy to hear that it was useful for you and your W.
Take care LITB. I look forward to your next update!
Denver
LITB, so glad that you went through it. That was indeed a very good description of what happened without giving it away! Its been a year now since H and I went to Retrouvaille, and it really has helped us so much that we have decided to volunteer our time to help other couples as well. I still remember hofew intense and emotionally exhausting it was, but also how the glow of hope felt....
Retrouvaille did help us get to know ourselves better, and communicate in a "safe" way. One of the things that I realize is that truly, marriages do evolve as we grow older - and passes through all the stages described in the book. The disillusionment and misery phases - which is usually the phase were we all fall apart with the problems - is aggravated by the way we tend to hurt each other in communicating.
Its important to attend the posts, and even after the posts, to keep in touch with the group. Once the excitement and motivation wears off, there is the danger of backsliding, which happened to us actually.
Take care and keep posting!
Thanks Denver and Angel.
We attended our 1st post session today. We continued to learn to communicate through dialogue to build a more solid foundation for our relationship.
The most profound part of today was when my W brought up some difficult times in my life in describing "devastation" in voluntary open discussion. It brought some very deep emotions to the surface for me.
A short time later, my W and I dialogued about the strongest feelings we had today. The strongest feelings for both my W and I occurred when she shared that part of my life.
To paint a better picture for you, during Christmas of 09, we were at my sister's house visiting with my parents, my best friend and both of our wives. I would have never imagined that after that visit, my life would never be the same. My dad passed away 2 weeks later from cancer Jan '10, my W asked me for a D in Nov '10 and my best friend passed away unexpectedly in Sept 11.
For the mostpart I suppress my feelings. Now, I am able to express my feelings in a new and different way for myself.
The point I am getting to is that my wife apologized for not being there for me when I needed her the most and she said she put her own selfish needs first. It was a very pleasant surprise.
I really feel good about the direction of our R/M.
This is wonderful LITB! Keep it up! You are both doing great!
I am happy to read your update LITB! :-) So happy for you and your family. Your children especially for the fact that they are witnessing love in front of their eyes.
((( )))
How about an update when you get time......Hope all is well.
Thanks for checking in OLW.
All is well. My W and I will be attending our 5th Retrovaille post session tomorrow. It seems to help keep our M/R centered, especially when we face some of are more challenging times. We missed the last post session, as I was the best man for a friend wedding in Vegas.
The trip to Vegas gave us an opportunity to spend some much needed quality time together, which is undoubtedly the biggest challenge with our busy schedules. We got to see some of our friends while there.
I'll share something that I found to be a nice change. On Friday evening during our visit, we met a few friends at a central location. We lived there for 14 years, so this made it easier on us. My W and I had discussed watching the movie Flight later in the evening. While visiting with friends, her girlfriends talked about going dancing and I assumed we were joining them. To my surprise, my W let them know that we planned on watching a movie together. It's something small, yet so big to me.
We have our disagreements. As a matter of fact, we had a disagreement last night. Our S6 was running a low grade fever. When she got home, she immediately assumed that I would be taking today off. I thought that it was better for her to take the day off.
She just started a new job last week, so she has a valid point. My stance is that I have a deadline and I'm the breadwinner....granted, I only said that I needed to get some things out that are very important. As we were talking, we agreed to meet in the middle and compromise. I'd work half day and she'd work the other half. As I put more thought into the sitch, I remember her complaint about me minimizing her worth. I decided to stay home for the whole day. It appears to have made a difference.
As for our children, they have transitioned back to the Bay Area extremely well. We were very fortunate to have been assigned two great teachers.
As I said earlier, the biggest challenge is that we don't spend enough time together alone. It is something that we are working to overcome.
Thanks for checking in OLW.
All is well. My W and I will be attending our 5th Retrovaille post session tomorrow. It seems to help keep our M/R centered, especially when we face some of are more challenging times. We missed the last post session, as I was the best man for a friend wedding in Vegas.
The trip to Vegas gave us an opportunity to spend some much needed quality time together, which is undoubtedly the biggest challenge with our busy schedules. We got to see some of our friends while there.
I'll share something that I found to be a nice change. On Friday evening during our visit, we met a few friends at a central location. We lived there for 14 years, so this made it easier on us. My W and I had discussed watching the movie Flight later in the evening. While visiting with friends, her girlfriends talked about going dancing and I assumed we were joining them. To my surprise, my W let them know that we planned on watching a movie together. It's something small, yet so big to me.
We have our disagreements. As a matter of fact, we had a disagreement last night. Our S6 was running a low grade fever. When she got home, she immediately assumed that I would be taking today off. I thought that it was better for her to take the day off.
She just started a new job last week, so she has a valid point. My stance is that I have a deadline and I'm the breadwinner....granted, I only said that I needed to get some things out that are very important. As we were talking, we agreed to meet in the middle and compromise. I'd work half day and she'd work the other half. As I put more thought into the sitch, I remember her complaint about me minimizing her worth. I decided to stay home for the whole day. It appears to have made a difference.
As for our children, they have transitioned back to the Bay Area extremely well. We were very fortunate to have been assigned two great teachers.
As I said earlier, the biggest challenge is that we don't spend enough time together alone. It is something that we are working to overcome.
Hey LITB! Glad to hear things are going well overall! As we've discussed before, it sounds like you and I are experiencing similar stuff.
Thanks Denver. When people would post that piecing can be as difficult as trying to get here, I didn't quite comprehend how true that statement was. Piecing is no joke, but I wouldn't be a much improved knucklehead today without going thru the hell to get here.
Hi LITB, Piecing IS HARD. Arguments won't go away, it is more how you handle it that changes. You know, for a while, after Retrouvaille we had a huge backslide. In a way, it was because I started having expectations again.... and it almost sunk us.
But slowly, what we learned from Retro (and its almost been a year now) has been sinking in...as well as what I have learned from DBing. I have learned to bac away from potential confict....to wait until its a safer time...to choose my battles...and so has H.
Keep going....you take care!
P.S. Are you still in the Bay area? I am volunteering for the SF Retro group.
Thanks Angel. I am truly happy for you.
Yes, we are in the Bay Area. We live on the Peninsula, however we attended the Oakland Retrouvaille as the dates worked out better. We do have to make up a couple of post sessions, this last weekend included, because our S6 was still ill on Saturday. We might make them up in SF. We'll see how it works out with our schedule.
Our of curiosity, how often do you dialogue now that it has been awhile since you first got involved with Retrouvaille? We find that it has been a challenge for the last month.
Honestly, not much. But I think we are pretty quick learners and have learned to apply the principles of dialogue in regular conversation. For instance, we pretty much have learned to just listen to the other person when the topic is touchy, and not make "loaded" comments, or react in a negative way. I think the most important thing we learned is how to keep each conversation "safe". We also recognize it now when the other is treading dangerous ground and have learned to give out warnings...like H would say "where is this leading to..." or I would say "this is being negative again" and we stop and re-assess. It sort of becomes a part of your life after a while and it really does help.
Its hard to keep up with the posts, and inevitably, one or two are missed, but its a good thing that we can make up for it. The SF ones are in Millbrae so that should be good for you!
I'm happy for you too! I've been following your sitch from the start, and am so glad that things are working out. Especially since your kids are still so young.
Keep it up and God bless!
Millbrae is really close. That would be much more convenient than driving to Alameda. I'll let you know if we attend a post session in SF.
I could use some input from those of you who have traveled this road.
Over the last 2-3 weeks, I have felt some distance created between my W and I. I could feel it, but couldn’t quite put my finger on it until last night(ironically the 2nd anniversary since the initial bomb). We had a heart to heart and it was eerily a bit of déjà vu to some degree.
She admitted that she wasn’t feeling it(M/R). She doesn’t know why, because she told me that I have gone above and beyond trying to make things work. A lot of interesting exchanges during this convo. I’ll share what I can remember given that I didn’t get much sleep.
It was at least productive in conveying our thoughts and feelings to each other in a healthy manner without getting heated.
The biggest and most important thing that she admitted is that she believes that she probably has to go back to IC to help her identify the isses(s). I agree. I think a lot of these issues stem from her childhood.
Her parents D when she was 8 and her father walked out of her life for 10 years. Her mother eventually remarried, but then her stepdad got convicted of some serious crimes and was incarcerated for several years. Her mother took her to all of the court hearings and visits to her stepdad in prison. She was very young when all of this took place, so undoubtedly this had to have an emotional effect. What do I know? I am just thinking out loud here.
She told me that she was scared. Scared of the unknown. So am I. I am willing to stand by her side for our M and for our children. At this point, it is a leap of faith.
As for our M/R, the biggest issue for us since reconciliation is what church we attend. Being that I never left the Bay Area since the bomb, I have attended the same church. I have grown tremendously from a spiritual standpoint and they (my church) have supported me throughout the most difficult part of my life.
We were born and raised in different religions, however neither of us practiced our faith for most of our M, so it wasn’t much of an issue. Now, my W would prefer to attend a maga church with a worship band, which I would not have a problem with if I didn’t already have a home church. I have an extremely difficult time turning my back on the very place that has been a huge support for me.
When we agreed to reconcile, I made it clear that my faith is my priority and she will only come after my relationship with God.
I did let her know that I understand if she needs to find a home church for herself. It isn't ideal, but we each have to be responsible for our own faith.
It seems to me that the first issue needs to be addressed, before anything else.
Before this goes on too long. Here’s the thing I need help with. Given this new revelation, the thought of “what would stop her from giving up and walking away again?”. How have some of you been able to overcome this? I’ll admit, it isn’t easy given that I have had a taste of being independent and not having to worry about these issues.
I want to show her love, compassion and support. I feel as though I need to step it up even more. Do more the of the heavy lifting if you will.
Any help on getting her help, would be appreciated. She said that she is willing to go to counseling. I hope to see her put her words into action. Time will tell.
I was tripping and kinda went into a tailspin. Things are much better today after attending our Retrovaille post session.
HI LITB,
I am writing you a reply, but am not yet quite finished. Just wanted you to know that those things happen - that its nto what we expect when piecing, but you've got to hang in there. I will post to you probably later or tomorrow. Good thing that the post session got you back on track....word of warning though.... when the posts end, sometimes you will find yourself hanging, thinking.... what next?
You've got to start thinking now that you will have to have that strength to carry on!
Take care,
Angel
Thanks Angel,
I appreciate it. As much as the difficult times suck, they serve as a good reminder to identify the issues and take action. I realize how easy it is to revert to old habits.
I look forward to your reply.
I have more to add myself and will do so soon.
Thanks again angel.
I must admit that I was in panic mode on Friday.
One of the biggest realizations is what I mentioned about having a taste of independence and knowing that I will be okay on my own. I needed to adjust my perspective. That is really weak on my part. WEAK.
I didn’t come this far to simply give up. My W asked me to be patient. I let her know that I am not going anywhere and I will be a source of strength in whatever she needs me to be.
For the most part, I understand our R/M. It is always a matter of identifying issues and taking action to overcome them. I had gotten a bit complacent and was running on cruise control. Time to take more initiative on leading our M and our family.
This was our first big test since reconciliation. It sukked, but it was a necessary awakening. Thank the good Lord that we had our Retrouvaille post session on Saturday. She did not want to go in. When we got there, we talked a bit and I just opened the door and said, “time to go in”. It was the best thing that happened.
Her demeanor completely changed over the course of the day. It was remarkable. During our open discussion, one person who we have become good friends opened up on his struggles, which struck a chord with my W. Also, the H of our presenting couple has dealt with many of the same issues as my W and he has been a source of inspiration and encouragement.
A little later in the day during another open discussion(I want to point out that this is voluntarily), she opened up and shared her own struggles. I was pleasantly surprised. This took a lot of courage on her part.
Later when we dialogued, I thanked her for opening up and let her know that I was proud of her. I really was. It was a huge step for her.
As difficult as it is to not take things personal, many of the obstacles that stand ahead are personal for her. They are not about me. I will be here for her in our journey. I made that promise.
I'm glad things are looking better again.
Thank you for stopping by SS. I will visit your thread soon. I needed to get a hold of my sitch.
I hope by updating my sitch with my struggles may be helpful to others. It demonstrates that I am in the trenches fighting my own battles along with everyone else.
We are all in this journey. We are just at different points on our own paths.
Thanks Angel,
I appreciate it. As much as the difficult times suck, they serve as a good reminder to identify the issues and take action. I realize how easy it is to revert to old habits.
Coincidentally, my W and I had a horrible week last week too. By Friday, I too was in a panic mode. We had a couple of issues come up. On one, I reverted to some old behaviors that had her really upset. On the second, something happened that reminded her of some old trust issues that she had with me.
Things seem to be better after the weekend, but I really was worried late last week. Partly because she was really upset, partly because I had reverted to some old behaviors, but also because of the question that you ask, ie, "what is to stop her from giving up again?"
It is tough knowing that that could happen. We never know what our future holds, good or bad. I think that we both learned that when our wives left us. But I also think that it is the reality of ever person alive and of every relationship. We just didn't recognize it before.
Thanks for stopping by Denver. I'm glad to hear things are better with you as well.
I agree with everything you posted.
One thing that you and I talked about awhile back, is that we both made a significant amount of changes (going to school on our M/R), while our wives were finding their ways on their own.
I sometimes find myself thinking in the midst of a convo with my W, "if you would only do this or do that, it would completely change things for the better". It is a challenge not to offer too much advice to fix her problems. I have to tell myself, "she just wants me to listen, zip it."
It is tough for me, but I try to be aware of these things. You may have some of the same challenges in your sitch.
I definitely do LITB. I also have to stop myself from trying to 'teach' my W some of the lessons that I have learned here. It is frustrating, because I think that she and our M would be much better off if she applied some of the things that I have learned.
Then again, I need to continue focusing on myself and making sure that my own personal changes continue.
I agree with you LITB. zip it. Reminds me of how women like to be heard and men like to problem solve.
You probably already know this but when she talks just repeat what she's saying. It's called, reflecting.
I know what you mean about struggling with this. We are so used to having a certain conversation but it's with practice that we need to improve our listening skills ;-)
I almost spit my drink out when I read this. lol Of course I don't say everything that I think. I have a new and improved filter. Actually don't think I had one before.
Since my last few posts a couple of weeks ago, my sitch has improved. I've worked to identify the ways that I was pressuring my W and revising my actions to give her space.
I have also decided to lead by my actions. Don't get me wrong Vero, I still talk. lol
During one of our recent convos, I told her that I will stand for her and for our marriage. There was a lot more to that convo, but that is the gist of it. I could feel a sense of relief from her since that day.
As a matter of fact, this past Sunday, she turned to me and said, "thank you for everything you do." That meant a lot.
I realize there are no guarantees in life, however having a fulfilling M/R will not be for a lack of effort on my part. I will not come to a point in my life and look back with regret because I didn't man up for what I believe in.
"thank you for everything you do." That meant a lot.
This is awesome!!
Quick update....my marital ship has a plethora of holes in it. My W no longer wants to work on our marriage and will be moving out at the end of next week.
I am confident that she is in the midst of a crisis. In December she said that she wasn't sure why or how her emotions were on such a roller coaster. She mentioned that she was going to seek help, because she was doing nobody any good. Less than a week later she said she didn't want to work on our M and planned on moving out. Coincidently her mom came to visit for the holidays and apparently told her nothing is wrong with her. Great, the enabling MIL shedding her infinite wisdom.
This week I am down in SoCal with my kids visiting Disneyland and earlier this week we went to SeaWorld. I am back to trying to focus on myself and my children.
As for my thoughts on my sitch, I am about at the end of my rope. I've done everything that I know how to do and was willing to do anything else to keep my M and family intact. My thoughts have been quite consistent for about a month to let my W know that I am done. Obviously I know things change, so I want to take my time with this step.
As an aside, I wish logistics would have allowed us to take things slower when we agreed to reconcile. Ah well, live and learn.
One thing I forgot to mention; this time is completely different than the first. My W hasn't asked for a D. She still wears her ring. She hasn't told many people besides her mom and she practically doesn't even touch her phone. It's like she has almost closed herself off to the world.
LITB,
You know, the same thing happened to us. My H and I went to retrouvaille in November, it was a very emotional time, I could see H's committment to working on the M. Come April/May, we were in trouble again. H had pulled back, big time, was again talking about leaving, about things not working out, about not feeling anything, etc.
You know, I think that once the momentum from retro goes away, the couple is once again left with ...reality.
That is why they say that there should be NO expectations... because nothing could really bring back that "in love" feeling, that excitement that a new relationship feels. I think that is what your W is looking for, and that was what my H was looking for. But that is not what true love is, right? I think retro has gotten it right there, and a lot of it is really in the mind. But I don't think that the wayward spouses get it , at that point.
In a way, it is a withdrawal from the intensity of the emotions that they felt before they fell back to earth with a thud. Its true that maybe the OP's no longer are there, or have gone on, but they are now feeling that void.
My H at that point said to me that it wasn't the OW, it was just that he wanted to be happy and he realized that he still wasn't happy with me. He felt I was pressuring, and expecting.
I just stuck it out, and let him be. I dropped all my activities towards M bilding. No R talk, no reading of Love Dare, no praying together, no dialogue. I just thought to myself, what will be, will be. I'm tired, Ive tried, thats it.
In the end he stayed and without talking about it anymore at this point (we didn't even dialogue anymore after that), our R took a turn for the better. I applied the principles of retro, zipped it up, just gave my unconditional love without pursuing or begging....then we started volunteering for Retro, it gave us something to work on together.
In the end, I think that as life gets back to normal, they start recognizing that is how life really is supposed to be - the daily grind, the kids giving you trouble, an argument here and there.....and they no longer become reasons to leave.
I see my H appreciating the things we have together. Just a baby step at a time, and its been more than a year now since retro. We are not a lovey couple at all, and we still have a long way to go. I haven't heard ILY yet. But he did celebrate our 15th wedding anniversary, and he does talk about our retirement together, so I guess he is not thinking of going away.
Let her be, she has a lot to process. I think it might be more straightforward for men, women usually have convoluted minds. I hope and pray though that she thinks about it well and clearly. Give her her space, don't discuss, but don't be the first one to walk away, let her be the one to do that if she wishes.
Patience. Piecing is hard!
I'm so sorry to hear that W has reconsidered R.
I'm sure that must've been like another blow. I'm glad to hear you are traveling with your kids. Too bad it's cold this week in SoCal!
Keep us updated! I hope your finding ways to live in the present moment.
Quick update....my marital ship has a plethora of holes in it. My W no longer wants to work on our marriage and will be moving out at the end of next week.
Well, dang, what can I say? Ouch!...SIGH...bummer. I'm really sorry LITB. Truly I am. It's always in the back of our minds, isn't it? "What if they go again?"
And, OTOH, they must fear that we might hold over their heads the whole "crisis", or throw it in their face, OR that we'll do (again) some of the things we did that drove them crazy or hurt them so badly, etc.
I am confident that she is in the midst of a crisis. In December she said that she wasn't sure why or how her emotions were on such a roller coaster.
Does she take meds or see an IC now?
She mentioned that she was going to seek help, because she was doing nobody any good. Less than a week later she said she didn't want to work on our M and planned on moving out.
Well, she showed some insight...and then REacted on emotion. I'm still hopeful she'll get some help and get clarity. Doesn't mean she'll return OR that you'll want that, but it's got to be better for the kids to have a healthy mom.
Coincidently her mom came to visit for the holidays and apparently told her nothing is wrong with her. Great, the enabling MIL shedding her infinite wisdom.
Well that's interesting timing...MIL visits and then your w crumbles? I GUESS it's not relevant now, but it sure is striking. I forgot your MIL's exact history but from the sounds of it, she's not exactly supportive of marriage and or you. OR she thinks "blood is thicker than..." and to SOME folks that means a carte blanche for any family member. I never do get that. if one of my kids wanted to break a vow, I'll be listening hard for some darn good reasons and LOTS of "LRT" before they walk out...and though I won't "disown" them for it, they'll know that i'd see them differently forever.
Sorry LITB, but Your mil's presence and the timing of your w's wanting to go, again, strikes a nerve in me.
FWIW, when h left for the "Last Frontier" (no sarcasm intended), my mil called our kids to chat with them, exactly zero times...(over two YEARS.)
The idea of her having the discomfort of having to talk to ME, to get to her only grandchildren, greatly outweighed her desire to talk to them.
FTR, I'd never have said a word about h to her at all. I wanted them to interact, (although not at my expense. I know for a fact she bad mouthed me to MY kids.)
Now it's too late, b/c mil died & is gone, and it's over.
This week I am down in SoCal with my kids visiting Disneyland and earlier this week we went to SeaWorld. I am back to trying to focus on myself and my children.
LITB, I hope the clarity of your position at this point, is something that brings you comfort.
Because, you have no healthy alternative to what you're doing; i.e., making you & the kids your focus.
Maybe you really do have to release your w to her journey, her "mission"...and we can hope/pray she makes it alright, without too much lasting damage.
Again, what's the healthy alternative?
As for my thoughts on my sitch, I am about at the end of my rope. I've done everything that I know how to do and was willing to do anything else to keep my M and family intact. My thoughts have been quite consistent for about a month to let my W know that I am done. Obviously I know things change, so I want to take my time with this step.
I hear you and I get this^^^...you're smart to remember the last line too...take your time with this step, of all steps.
And IF the chance of a recon ever comes up again, you'll do some things differently. And if not, you'll be that much farther along, on your own journey, that much faster...
As an aside, I wish logistics would have allowed us to take things slower when we agreed to reconcile. Ah well, live and learn.
Amen...and again LITB, I'm sorry you're in this situation.
I hope you are comforted by knowing that you truly did DB, you did Retrovaille, you changed. You are a better father, a better man, and will be a better h to someone, someday...I don't know what else you could do that you did not. I literally don't so if you have some option we/you have overlooked, let us know so we can hash it out.
For now, what's up with the custodial plans? Will you do ANYTHING differently this time? (Don't assume her comments about your behavior pursuing the kids, was completely wrong or only motivated by self interests. I mean, at least look inward to make sure you're doing what's best for THEM, first. "Winning" in this scenario is all about damage control for the kids...
there is no Charlie Sheen form of "WINNING!" in these situations. But YOU can be happy again, and will be, and so will the kids.
I'd urge you to read the thread with my name in it (not sure it's "my" thread but my screen name is on it). In there, I discuss some recent discoveries I made about my children's feelings for h, especially my youngest d. She deeply resents h, even though we've reconciled.
It's as if I thought Retrovaille's effect had filtered down to the kids, but alas, they did not attend Retro, just h and I did.
(I know it seems obvious now, but back then, I assumed whatever we did to stay intact as a family, was something all the kids would be on board with). They missed h when he left....at least at first.
Thank God I have no regrets about bad mouthing H, (TO THEM b/c God knows I did here)
so the negatives they have of him are theirs, not mine projected.
LITB, Protect yourself but remember to protect their hearts, most of all.
These changes you made, this work, your efforts, all these ^^ things, make all the difference. They matter.
BTW I see you as a success story here. You know, It's NOT all about staying married...
This process, this thing we call 'growth through pain' and Div Busting, is about the hard, brave, scary work of digging deep within ourselves, when we are hurt most.
It's about forgiving way more than we ever thought we could,
recommitting more than we ever thought we would,
choosing to love more than we ever thought we SHOULD...
and growing into our best selves - b/c we were forged like steel,
forged steel is forged into one of the strongest of metals, in heat and cold. Like that metal, we are forged by the heat of hot tempers, washed in the cold "water" of a detached distanced spouse's treatment... we survive, we thrive.
(How's that metaphor working? 
)
Keep us posted. The "and LATER ON..." stories are very important for all of us to grow with/from.
It's late and I'm rambling. But take care LITB, and again, let us know what's up with you & yours.
Thank you for the support ladies. It is greatly appreciated.
We got back from our trip Saturday evening. It turned out to be fantastic and my kids had a blast. It was a great time to hit the parks.
25, to answer a couple of your questions. My W is not seeing an IC or taking any medication. As far as I know, she doesn't intend to.
The custodial plan will be 50/50. Our kids will alternate weeks between us. She knows that I will not settle for anything less.
Would I do anything differently? Absolutely. I will NOT allow fear to be my guide like I did the first time around. That was a lesson learned the hard way. I lost valuable time with my kids.
When my W and I agreed to reconcile, I told her that she will be my priority and I expect to be her priority. Anything less is unacceptable. So here I find myself at the point of deciding to attach actions to my words. Otherwise my words hold no water.
Here are my thoughts. I let my W know that I am done and want to put our M/R behind us. One of two things will happen. I will find myself a single father 6 months after filing or she will realize that she is throwing away a good thing and will take initiative in keeping our family intact. I believe the LRT is my path.
Either option is better than this uncertainty I am living in now. I don't want to live like this and it isn't fair to our kids. Good times.
I am meeting with my Pastor late this week to run my thoughts by him to get his take. Lord knows that I could use some spiritual guidance.
In the meantime, gotta keep living, because life awaits no one.
Hey LITB. I haven't been around much, but obviously I'm aware of the present status of you sitch. I just want to let you know that I'm still available if you need someone to bounce your thoughts off of.
I lean towards agreeing with you that LRT is the right choice for you right now. I do want to remind you though that you don't have to file for D in order to execute LRT. ONLY file for D if you are truly ready for the consequences of that choice.
Hang in there brother.
Denver
(Technically, I believe it's the AFTER-the-LRT, but hey -- he's on a roll . . . )
Starsky
Thanks fellas. I appreciate it.
Well, my W and I had a disagreement last night, which turned into a M/R convo. It gave me an opportunity to bring some of my issues that I have with our sitch. Bottom line, I let her know that I'd much rather put "this unfulfilling M/R behind us, than live with this uncertainty."
She will be moving out next weekend as her new place wasn't ready this weekend, so I get to live another joyful week with her. Actually things haven't been horrible. Just not meeting my needs in a marriage and no action are her part giving me an inclination that she intends to. She is and may always put herself at the top of her priority list.
I'm okay with this coming to an end if it isn't in the cards. I know it isn't for a lack of effort on my part. There was a lot more to this condo, but that is the gist.
My final update on my sitch and some lessons that I learned along the way:
It has been just over 3 years since the original bomb and I have reached the other side. My STBX and I were separated for exactly 18 months before agreeing to reconcile. These efforts lasted about 6-7 months before the wheels came off for good. Honestly, it seemed as though we were doing well. We had attended a Retrouvaille weekend and were attending the post sessions. I thought we had gained some profound relationship skills from the program. There were many points where I felt we were on the right path.
Here is the thing. You can have all the relationship skills in the world, but if you choose not to use them, they are rendered useless. My STBX chose not to use them to help fix our M/R. I will never understand why not, however I don’t worry about it anymore. I know in my heart that I did everything within me to make things work. I am not responsible to bear her cross. I know that I can look back at this time in my life without any regret. And, my kids know it through my actions as well, despite their ages. That means the world to me and they motivated me to ensure every rock was turned.
So here we are. A year after the second round of calamity. This past Friday, we met and have agreed to amicably end our M by filing an uncontested D. We have the agreements from the first filings, so we are good to go without attorneys. We co-parent really well and get along perfectly fine. Our lives are simply on different paths. For the most part, our kids are doing well, however they have been undoubtedly affected by our sitch. Our S7 has been lashing out at his mom for about a month now. If it were up to him, he would live with me full-time. As it is, we share 50/50 custody. I am going to look into getting him some help.
So short of my family living as one unit in harmony, this is the best outcome that I could have hoped for. Things are much more clear for me on what I want in a relationship. My relationship skills are much improved and they will always be a work in progress.
At the beginning of my mess, I took on all the weight on my shoulders for the demise of our M/R. I posted a list of her complaints in one of my threads early on. I recently read it and came away shocked at how much that I was in the fog myself. I owned all of her complaints, even though some of them were not valid. The reason I say that, is because I addressed many of my issues(her complaints), but she found new things to complain about the second time around. I realize if a person wants to focus on the negative, they will find something to complain about.
Also, I was content on settling for crumbs early on. I’d hang onto the slightest positive or at times, anything that even appeared to be a positive. It was pathetic, for lack of a better term. I understand, because I was in a fog and an emotional wreck. It has been the most difficult thing that I have experienced and that includes losing my dad to cancer at the beginning of the same year as the initial bomb and my best friend….unexpectedly the following year. In ’09, we were all sitting in my sister’s living room for Christmas (my parents, my STBX and my best friend and his wife), I would have never in my wildest dreams would have ever imagined losing it all shortly after that. I would have never imagined doing my dad’s eulogy less than 3 weeks later. My STBX dropping the bomb and being in the midst of a couple of affairs. Doing another eulogy for my best friend who unexpectedly passed away 20 months after that Christmas. Yet, my STBX turned her back on me when I needed her most.
I’ll admit, typing that brought some raw emotions to the surface. I will tell you that I have become a better person because of all of that. We can look at those obstacles that keep us in stuckville or we can look at those obstacles as opportunities to learn and grow. I used my time to grow. I had no idea where life would lead, so I gave it to God, kept the faith and kept living. Life awaits no one. That was one of my mottos.
I became super involved with church. I am now on the church council. I created a FB prayer group to help encourage others who are facing difficulties in their lives. I started an All Pro Dad chapter at the school my children attend, which began in November. It had a super turn-out and it has been received well. We plan to make it an ongoing event. Submitted my application recently to be a big brother for Big Brothers, Big Sisters. A lot of doors have been opening for me. Life is really good these days.
Of course in on fairness to transparency, I have begun to date someone and it seems to have a lot of potential. She is well aware of my sitch, because communication is key and we have a mutual respect for one another. We will see where it goes. I am especially cognitive of my surroundings and I am protective of my children.
Good luck on your respective DB’ing journey and if I can help, I will try.
Peace,
Ben
Ben, I've read your threads since the beginning, you are an inspiration and a success story.
There's a lot of wonderful perspective in the post above. I believe that people are in our lives for a reason.
And they leave our lives for a reason.
Our work is to grow from the experience. You will now attract very different people to you because of this.
All the best and much happiness to you and your family.
((( )))
Bug,
Thank you for your kind words. They are very much appreciated and the feelings are mutual. I am happy to see you doing so well. Your wisdom is priceless.
Best wishes to you and your family!!
(( ))
Ben,
I am glad to hear you are doing well. Your sitch is one where I really think - what is wrong with your W? I believe it's truly HER loss and while we both know there is no point in wondering or focusing on that, I do think she will be the one to regret this in the end.
Again - not your issue and not in your control...
Your growth has been amazing, your story inspirational and where you are today and where you continue to move in your life are a testament of someone who chose not to get beat by the challenges life throws at us.
Thank you for sharing - I feel renewed and motivated from reading your update. I hope you stick around - your insight is of great help to others here and we'd love to read now about the great new adventures that life has in store for you in this new phase.
((((((LITB))))))
Hi Ben, it was good to read your update. You are one amazing man and I applaud you for all that you have grown through and become. To put it in DB terms- you really are a man only a fool would leave.
I am sorry your kids are struggling... I relate to that deeply. I know you have the strength love insight and compassion to guide them through this.
As for the lady you are seeing now, I am sure she is lovely and am hall she is giving you what you need right now.
Ben you have and still are instrumental in my journey and growth. You are very dear to me and I wish you happiness and peace always.
Keep coming back. You are invaluable here.
Busting
Ben, I am newer to the boards and my stitch is young. Your story is inspiring. It gives me hope that even if things don't work out in the M your life can still be filled with good things. I applaud you.
Thank you KG and Busting for your kind words. Like I mentioned to Bug, the feelings are mutual. I have seen you both grow tremendously. Honestly it has been a thing of beauty, especially considering how difficult this can be.
Paul....thanks for dropping in. I will try to catch up on your sitch soon and I will try to help you if I can.
As for the new woman in my life, I feel truly blessed. I realize that we are in the "euphoric" stage, so things are going great. Of course I still have the cloud of my sitch above me. I need to get this D processed. As I just mentioned in Paul's thread, be a great dad. It is one of the things that attracted my new woman to me. Additionally, all of the changes that I made during journey are benefiting me in my new R. I have been told on several occasions that I am different. It is hard work, but beyond worthwhile.
If I do decide to keep updating, I will relocate to the proper forum.
(((((((((((((((((LITB)))))))))))))) glad to hear that you are doing well. i find your faith and attitude inspiring. thank you for all the support and kindness.
(((((NG)))))!!! It has been a long time. Thank you for your kind words my sweet friend!!
What do I know? I thought my thread in this forum had run its course. I thought that my new path was clear. Life can certainly be interesting and surprising.
What do I know? I know that I was going to be happy no matter who was in my life or if I was flying solo. That is my responsibility.
Here is the update. My W and I have agreed to reconcile again. It wasn't any easy decision. I was very reluctant to even consider the idea. I had become the WAS. Interesting for sure, because I was very considerate of her, knowing the pain she was experiencing all too well.
Anyway, it feels different this time around. Obviously I am leaving out a ton of details that I will share another day. Just wanted to stop by to update my thread.
Keep the faith.
Wow! Yes let us hear more when you're ready!
One of my biggest takeaways from my experiences of the last 4 years has been, I never know what may be just around the corner.
Wow....one of my DB heroes resurfaces! LITB - check my last thread....we are in the same place my friend...thought I have not posted a ton about it. Let's talk.....
Crimson
Thank you both for the the notes.
Bug, you are absolutely right and I can really appreciate what you said on Crimson's thread about embracing uncertainty.
Crimson, I am reading your thread right now. I am happy to read the updates. Stay the course my friend.
Can't wait to hear all the details, LITB. Slow and steady, bro, an PLEASE . . . be careful!!
Starsky
Thanks Starsky! I know you are spot on with taking things slow and being careful. Gonna do my best. Thanks again.
After following your sitch for so long. I am so happy for you, but all of us need a very long update. Good Luck
Hooked on this thread now.
LITB, what's new? How are things?
Things are going well. Thank you for asking and dropping in on my thread. Right now, I am just taking my time.
My W took the kids on vacation to SoCal last week and I met them down there for the last 3 days. It was our first mini vacation as a family since our reconciliation. Time on the beach and Magic Mountain. It was a great time.
I will post a more detailed update in the next couple of days.
I apologize for the delay.
My update……….
Back in January, I was under the impression that my marriage or any relationship with my W was over, other than co-parenting. I was in a good place personally. The direction of my life felt like it had some clarity. Things were going well with my GF, although it was early in our relationship.
Fast forward to the end of March, this is when everything began to shift. My W was struggling, in turn, my kids were struggling. Dealing with these issues, trying to maintain a relationship with my GF and staying on top of my other commitments was not working.
Having a GF made a difficult situation, much more challenging. Honestly, I thought I was good to go. The thing that I didn’t take into consideration, was how much it was going to affect my kids and my relationship with them. My W wanted back in and my kids wanted their family back together. Now I held the keys to making that happen.
It was something that I didn’t want to entertain at first. I was put through hell, and I wasn’t about to be put back into that situation. I had to do a lot of thinking and a lot of praying for some guidance from above. I’d get the thought, “This is what I worked so hard for, to have my family intact. My family deserves this chance. My kids deserve my effort.” I sat on that mindset for a couple of months. In the meantime, my GF and I broke up.
I stepped back to see what my W would do. She had made it clear that she wanted to try this again. Obviously a lot of conversations had taken place and I remained reluctant. During this time, she began attending the church I am a member of. This played a big role, for a couple of reasons. For one, I felt like I was getting beat down, because having a GF and still being married did not align with my belief system. This weighed heavy on me. Secondly, with my W in church, it was beneficial to the spiritual growth of our children. Admittedly, this played the biggest role in my situation shift.
We have already went to a Retrouvaille meeting and will be attending the post sessions again. One of hosting couples has made some recommendations on other avenues to help us on our journey. Hopefully it will keep us motivated and accountable.
I can't believe that I just fell upon your post. I have this situation, however I am the W. My H is living with his GF. I am home with our kids. Even though they are maybe a little older G(14)
B(18) they were devastated when their F left for another woman.
The kids really don't want anything to do with him. They have lost a lot of respect and he is feeling that deeply.
I have told him that I don't want a D. I am committed to working on our M. When we've talked recently he has said he is trying to figure things out. The GF is also married.
I have been praying for the affair to end.
I think the only way he can truly figure things out is if she leaves the scene. But I have no control over that.
So.... until then, I concentrate on my kids and work on getting through each day. When I see him I try to stay as positive as I can. I don't mention the GF or their relationship- I just pretend she doesn't exist.
If you have any other suggestions please let me know..
Best of luck to you and your family.
secondt,
I replied to you in your thread. Hope it helps.
LITB, I can't remember did you and W do counseling after getting back together?
It's good that you did R. What was your experience like?
Hi Bug,
My W did counseling for about 4 sessions. At the time, it was at the beginning of our first recon, so she was saying all the right things. To be honest, the first time happened way too fast, based on logistical convenience.
My W was living in NM at the time and our kids were getting ready to begin school. It made the most sense to get them back out to the Bay Area, given that I had a great job out here. Ironically, today is my last day, as I begin a new job next week.
Retrouvaille, was a great experience. It made us dig to places we normally wouldn't. It helped us communicate about our feelings in a more controlled manner, which then encouraged more vulnerability.
I think it took us to places that I don't think my W wanted to visit. Specifically "Family of Origin".
We have attended a Retrouvaille CORE meeting last month and had coffee with the hosting couple. They have been amazing.
This week, we have hit a couple of rough patches that were issues in the past. There are things that I have identified that I need to work on. One of them was my passive/aggressive behavior. Before, instead of dealing with the issue when it presented itself, I'd avoid it to not have to deal with confrontation. Later it would just build some resentment.
This week, we had a couple disagreements and we were able to handle them a lot better. New territory that was uncomfortable, but made a world of difference.
This post got long.
Kinda feels like we are in the same boat, LITB. I am still doing IC with an amazing counselor and one of her colleagues and protégés will be doing joint C. All four of us (me, xw, C, and joint C) met for 1 and a half hour session last week. Went well - and we are on board for more.
I am terrified, but hopeful. XW is still in a place where she is grappling with barriers in her heart resulting from the pains from the past. It is for sure a barrier to intimacy right now but I hope we can power through it lovingly.
As backwards as it may sound, I look at all of the changes and the eye-opening that has happened as a result of the D and it hit me last night....I am grateful for it....grateful for the divorce. F*ck...how's THAT for a 180? It made me evolve and break old destructive habits. I am a better person and father for it...and hope to be a better partner or husband again too. Sure, I hurt from it...a lot....but it minimizes over time as I look for the silver linings.
XW, S and I are headed to Pacific Beach in SD this evening for Labor Day...second family vacay of the summer. I was visiting XW at her place early this morning and helping her get S ready. As I was loading him into my car a total stranger walking a dog strolled by and he says "Hi! I'm going to San Diego with my family!". "With my family"....to someone that has been through what I have been through - hearing your son who suffered through the D too say that.....it almost made me cry on the spot. We had a group hug and went on with our days.
Moment like that make me hope that the barriers in XWs heart will gradually erode. Counseling will help, I hope.
Crimson
Hi Bug,
My W did counseling for about 4 sessions. At the time, it was at the beginning of our first recon, so she was saying all the right things. To be honest, the first time happened way too fast, based on logistical convenience.
My W was living in NM at the time and our kids were getting ready to begin school. It made the most sense to get them back out to the Bay Area, given that I had a great job out here. Ironically, today is my last day, as I begin a new job next week.
Retrouvaille, was a great experience. It made us dig to places we normally wouldn't. It helped us communicate about our feelings in a more controlled manner, which then encouraged more vulnerability.
I think it took us to places that I don't think my W wanted to visit. Specifically "Family of Origin".
We have attended a Retrouvaille CORE meeting last month and had coffee with the hosting couple. They have been amazing.
This week, we have hit a couple of rough patches that were issues in the past. There are things that I have identified that I need to work on. One of them was my passive/aggressive behavior. Before, instead of dealing with the issue when it presented itself, I'd avoid it to not have to deal with confrontation. Later it would just build some resentment.
This week, we had a couple disagreements and we were able to handle them a lot better. New territory that was uncomfortable, but made a world of difference.
This post got long.
All great info and not too long! Thanks for sharing from your heart.
Kinda feels like we are in the same boat, LITB. I am still doing IC with an amazing counselor and one of her colleagues and protégés will be doing joint C. All four of us (me, xw, C, and joint C) met for 1 and a half hour session last week. Went well - and we are on board for more.
I am terrified, but hopeful. XW is still in a place where she is grappling with barriers in her heart resulting from the pains from the past. It is for sure a barrier to intimacy right now but I hope we can power through it lovingly.
As backwards as it may sound, I look at all of the changes and the eye-opening that has happened as a result of the D and it hit me last night....I am grateful for it....grateful for the divorce. F*ck...how's THAT for a 180? It made me evolve and break old destructive habits. I am a better person and father for it...and hope to be a better partner or husband again too. Sure, I hurt from it...a lot....but it minimizes over time as I look for the silver linings.
XW, S and I are headed to Pacific Beach in SD this evening for Labor Day...second family vacay of the summer. I was visiting XW at her place early this morning and helping her get S ready. As I was loading him into my car a total stranger walking a dog strolled by and he says "Hi! I'm going to San Diego with my family!". "With my family"....to someone that has been through what I have been through - hearing your son who suffered through the D too say that.....it almost made me cry on the spot. We had a group hug and went on with our days.
Moment like that make me hope that the barriers in XWs heart will gradually erode. Counseling will help, I hope.
Crimson
Sweet!
Thank you Bug. Crimson, I am happy to see how your situation has evolved. Definitely something to be proud of. I concur with your appreciation of the changes we have made, as a result of these challenging times. Hope you all are enjoying your long weekend.
HI LITB,
I'm glad to hear that you are working on your M again and that you have gone to Retro.
I rarely come back to the forum as I'm too busy but once in a while I see familiar names and so glad that you are one of those whose sitch is turning around.
Keep on working on it, don't be discouraged if ever you still have backslides (we all will have it once in a while).
Take care!
Hi LITB
Long time no hear...so glad to read this. i'm ever the cautious one b/c too many reconciliations happen too quickly, if at all. But YOU already know this. It's hard to imagine too much care handling this, so I'd advise you to take it slow, yet I know you are already.
I'm sending you prayers and light and love. Sorry about the GF (for her sake, not yours) and have to say I really believe SOME WAWs need to see their h's in the rms of OW to wake up. Not that she wouldn't have anyway, but it's good for YOU and her to know that you have options.
As confusing as that can be, I recall feeling better knowing that I had choices. I was not staying married out of fear, but b/c I was empowered to choose. No feelings of being trapped. There is a lot to be said for that, at least for me.
Keep on keeping on, and do stay in touch please!
I apologize in advance for the hijack, but it shall be a short one.
CRIMSON, where are you and what the heck is going on? Can you update us somewhere, somehow, and all that?
Okay, now back to LITB....
25, he did update and things were looking good but the post got deleted in the board clean-up.
I just posted to his thread in Newcomers yesterday asking for info.
Thanks LA,
I'll go find him!
OK OK OK....I'll start a thread here!
Hi Angel,
Things are going really well for us. We are going on 7 months since we agreed to reconcile. My W and I have been living together as a family since the beginning of October.
We have all been attending church together, and become a member. It has made a tremendous difference. It has been a positive change for our kids.
Overall, things are going well. Not really much to update.
How are things with you? Hope you are well.
Wishing everyone a Merry Christmas!!
Hello LITB. I just wanted to say I wish you and your family the best. I just read you thread here and it is very inspirational to me. I really admire your strength. Thank you for all you posts.
Thank you HP. I appreciate it. I will try to catch up on your sitch.
Hi! I have been following several posts about the retreat referenced in this thread, and would love to ask for positive thoughts/prayers as my husband and I are going January 16th. I know some of you have had positive experiences with it. I am looking forward to it, and praying it will put us on a path toward piecing. Right now my husband is DONE, and is only going to give me closure, so he says. However I absolutely cannot believe he even agreed to go, so that alone gives me hope.
Hey 25, just wanted to let you know how much you, and many of the other vets are appreciated. For me, it is you, Starsky, Bond, LaBug, Sandi and some of the BITS (Denver, 2Step, CountrySong, and JBNatti).
For the vets who stick around helping complete strangers is admirable.
Long time no hear...so glad to read this. i'm ever the cautious one b/c too many reconciliations happen too quickly, if at all. But YOU already know this. It's hard to imagine too much care handling this, so I'd advise you to take it slow, yet I know you are already.
Completely agree with this. The first recon, this was the case. Things are completely different this time around….thus far.
I'm sending you prayers and light and love. Sorry about the GF (for her sake, not yours) and have to say I really believe SOME WAWs need to see their h's in the rms of OW to wake up. Not that she wouldn't have anyway, but it's good for YOU and her to know that you have options.
I know your post to me is from awhile back, however the prayers are always appreciated. I felt really bad about the GF, and it certainly wasn’t a way to awaken my W, even though that is exactly what it did. Uncertain if my W was coming out of her fog or not. I suppose it really doesn’t matter.
Like you said, there is a lot to be said about knowing you have options, and it is empowering.
Thanks again.
It's been awhile since I last posted an update. Things with my W continue to go relatively well and in a positive direction. It is definitely a work in progress, as it should be. We have learned that it is okay to agree, to disagree. There are topics that we may never see eye to eye on, and it is all good. Choose your battles wisely.
To all of the newbies. I realize how difficult it is and how hopeless things look. I can assure that things will get better, no matter the outcome of your sitch. The beauty of these situations, is that you have choices and it begins with change. That change begins with you.
The below applies to both WASes and LBSes. We all have areas to work on.
“Everywhere you go, there you are” means to me that change must ultimately come from within. I used to think that if I changed my outer world––moved, got a new job, a new relationship (especially!)––something fundamental would change as well.
Mostly, I ended up reading from the same script, but just on a different stage in a different theater. No real fundamental change had occurred just because I changed my outer world. It did not automatically create any significant change in my inner world. Indeed, it was amazing how quickly I would re-establish old patterns, re-energize old habits in my new environment. Essentially I was decorating my new abode with the furniture from my previous one.
Eventually, tired of not creating the change that my conscious mind said I wanted, I spent a lot of time thinking and feeling it through. Before long I had a blinding flash of the obvious: Everywhere I went, there I was. The same old me. In new clothes perhaps, new surroundings, but still me, re-enacting the same behaviors, thinking and acting the same way that had created my circumstances in my old surroundings. People being pretty much the same the world over, others were reacting the same way to me and the same old, same old dynamics were occurring over and over. Everywhere I went, there I was.
The problem wasn’t other people, it was me. If I wanted change, I needed to change (“Become the Change You Seek…”). And even if the existence of the problem wasn’t entirely my “fault,” even if I had not created it, if I was the one who wanted change, then certainly the fastest way to get what I wanted was to accept responsibility for creating it.
If I wanted to create real, lasting, meaningful change in my outer world, I needed to start with my inner world. Once I did that, once I started thinking, acting, and being different, once I started seeing others and myself in a different light, I was amazed how much change seemed to happen automatically. Things that before seemed to take so much effort, frequently appeared to come about on their own.
Yes, different circumstances and surroundings can create the space and opportunity for change by removing many of the old cues and support for behaviors you wish to change. New people in your life, with no expectations of you based upon your past, can create a honeymoon period for you to try out the embryonic changes you are creating. However, these change opportunities can be squandered more quickly than you might realize and are far from self-determining.
Because for better or worse (as always, your choice): Everywhere You Go, There You Are.
Work on you. Work on your happiness. Work on changing your world.
That is very profound!!! I will re-read this often.
Working on me. Working on my happiness. Working on changing my world.
This is excellent and so well written! I hope it can be saved for new members somewhere easily accessible.