Stuckville...population 2. - DivorceBusting.com

I've pondered writing this update for a while. Part of me is vary of the jinx, but I know there are some good people here with good ideas.

I don't know where I was but lets start off one year ago today.

Sept. '11 - I move out b/c wife wants to reduce tension and space.
During the separation kids as split 3/3 with One day I stay at the old house in the spare room.
We also decide to stop seeing our MC because we are dwelling too much in the past.
Things go along okay - no outward animosity, no real progress either, kids do great. Just seem to be floating.
Dec. '11 we had large financial issue come up and later that day my W tells me that I should move back home.

NYE 2011/2012. My wife and I have a pretty serious discussion she said that she doesn't think our marriage can work. We should really ponder what to do, but she didn't want to make any rash decisions.

Feb '12 July 12- I move back home. Separate rooms, no physical affection. She doesn't avoid me, she is generally nice and pleasant - calls me during the work day to check in, picked me up a coffee now and then lots of small gestures. I try to keep thing in check and learning to be open with her.
In may we go on vacation to Disney had a great time.

In early July, I ask about the sleeping arraignments as they are starting to bug me. It feels like a rejection. She shoots me down saying she isn't ready, doesn't know when she will be ready, if ever. Maybe we can be a couple who doesn't share bedrooms. I say that would be fine, if there were other ways of being intimate. I loose my cool a little.
Next night a way more rational discussion. I explain that being married means being intimate to me and sharing your sleeping space with someone is an intimate act. She sees that point I think for the first time. No change.

2 weeks later, I decide to ask about the biggie - Sex. Before she goes to bed I say, 'I want to ask you if you think we might be ready to have sex again." Boom she shoots me down before I finish the sentence. But then she pauses and says let me think about it.
an hour later she texts me and says that we can the next night.

So we do and it was awesome. During one point we are lying there and she says to me "are you sure you still love me?" It really threw me off. I mean from my POV I am 10000% ready to commit to working on the marriage, I love her completely and would work through a lot. I don't get it.

I want to take it really slow on ML because that was a huge flashpoint in the past. I try to be clear about what I would like, ask for it and be fine either way. We've ML twice since then space out about 3 weeks apart. I've meet all my goals on this.

The problems - I did a major screw up while I was on vacation in Colorado. My SIL was watching our son. My SIL is a physician and my wife just doesn't like her since before we were married. She tolerates her now. But she always felt like I took the SIL side in the dispute with my W. My W just didn't like her and basically I told her I didn't understand why she didn't like her and tried to convince her otherwise. Everyone else gave my W the same message about SIL including all of her family.

Anywho - SIL is watching my son with his cousins. I was with my bro at a friends house. While under SIL's care my son, who was sick, had a short Febrile seizure. I didn't know what to do, my SIL didn't want to take him to the ER. I tried calling my wife. My other sister is an ED nurse and she said we didn't need to take him. I come back and find my son, just warm but mostly okay.

The next day I tell my wife and she goes ballistic saying she should have taken him to the ED. She doesn't know what the heck SIL is doing. She went great lengths to not blame me at all. And then afterward everyone tried to say that my W had nothing to get freaked out about because he was in the care of a doctor and my sister who works in the ED said to do the same thing. I, of course, took the opposite side saying that we won't let the SIL watch our son alone again and I agreed that the SIL should've taken him to the ED (though I didn't force the issue, nor was I there)

But I think she felt that when push came to shove again - people wouldn't pick her concerns views of the SIL. myself included. She did tell me not to confront SIL while I was there.

Okay fast forward to a week or so ago. I talk to my W about the sleeping arrangements. Bascially, I say I understand that you need this right now and it affords you a level of privacy you need right now, but basically it s@cks for me. This leads into a discussion about the state of things.

1) she doesn't necessarily want to get divorced (she cried while telling me this) But added that the reason that she doesn't want to get divorced isn't because she so in love with me she can't imagine my life without you kind of reason. She said that she wanted to honor her vows. And thinks she'd fall apart if we divorced.

2) She suggested that we start up MC again, this time with someone new. (But then backed up a bit saying with 2 small kids, 2 full time jobs and no family support, it's a challenge)

3) If she could have an existence where were basically roomates, who watched our kids and had sex infrequently. She'd be okay with that for now.

4) She did say that No. 4 probably isn't healthy and said that she wanted those points of intimacy as well. She just pushes those needs aside for now.

5) She said what we have been doing hasn't been working.

6)She's also worried that if we divorced I'd freakout and try to harm myself and she'd have the guilt for the rest of her life.

7) She also mentioned at one point that I would basically take anything I could get in a marriage. I tried to shoot that idea down short of "walking"

My response to most of this was to listen.I didn't try any validation BS.I tried to convey to her that if the worst happened, it would not be the end of the world of me. I don't want to split up. I tried to tell her I need more out of a relationship and it's a bad example for our kids. (6 & 2)

So that's it. It's been like this for 7 months. no real growth. creating some anger in me that spills.

I feel like I just don't know how to proceed Retrouville is out as the only one in our area this year is wen she's gone away to a conference for work...and I don't know if she'd even go. She's a psychologist so isn't really into that stuff (though she'd be more than happy to suggest it to her patients.

I realizes there is a lot to digest, you you can feel free to comment on any part or no parts or every part.

Harrier: I haven't had time to read through your story and obvioulsy im kind of a rookie here, but it seems as though you two have had some growth...mind you it looks like 2 forward 1 1/2 back but thats still growth nonetheless. I think that MC is absolutely the way to go, it sounds like your past experience was with someone who wasn't solution-focused. Maybe thats what you need to find, someone to help you move forward not who is so concerned with digging up all the old. Obviously you have to go back some to understand the problems, but you sound like you need someone to help you going forward.

First of all, I don't think you should have thrown SIL under the bus like that. She's a doctor and your other sister is a nurse and they both said it was okay. Plus your W wasn't around. In the end it's not your SIL's fault. If you keep doing that you are destroying your family support system. It's no wonder you feel that you and your W have no familial support.

Next, in terms of your W, the reason why she is soooo slow at making a decision is because she really hasn't tried ANYTHING. It may be because of her profession, but she's doing a lousy job of self-diagnosing. The only way that she will have a happy M is to totally open herself up and trust. I can never understand how people say they can be fine being unhappy with the rest of their lives. Duh, if you actually did some work to make yourself happy wouldn't it be worth it?

Look up Project Happily Ever After. It's a book and website that you W might like to read. Keep DB for yourself, but the other site is good for your W to see how a woman who pretty much wanted her H dead, turned their M around into one that is wholly loving.

Thx. Bond, but I do want to correct a few things about the SIL.

I didn't throw her under the bus. Yes she is a physician, but not a pediatrician (OB-GYN), but she (my SIL) told that she was freaked out by the seizure. She probably would have taken him to the ED, but she had my other cousins with her. I didn't say one word to her or my brother about it. My wife wasn't so much mad that it happened how it did, but that she felt like people were ignoring her concerns as a mother. Every medical professional I talked too outside of my family said he should have gone to the ED.
When I talked about family support I was talking more about physical location not emotional distance. We both live 2000 miles from our families.

I agree on the second part 100% and will look at the site.

Most importantly in your sitch, just have fun.

Rather than constantly thinking about the past and the problems with the R, spend time enjoying one another.

Maybe take her to a comedy club or an amusement park. Someplace where you can just have fun with each other.

Harrier,

Not here for very long atm, so this will be more blunt than it normally is.

Quote:

1) she doesn't necessarily want to get divorced (she cried while telling me this) But added that the reason that she doesn't want to get divorced isn't because she so in love with me she can't imagine my life without you kind of reason. She said that she wanted to honor her vows. And thinks she'd fall apart if we divorced.

2) She suggested that we start up MC again, this time with someone new. (But then backed up a bit saying with 2 small kids, 2 full time jobs and no family support, it's a challenge)

3) If she could have an existence where were basically roomates, who watched our kids and had sex infrequently. She'd be okay with that for now.

4) She did say that No. 4 probably isn't healthy and said that she wanted those points of intimacy as well. She just pushes those needs aside for now.

5) She said what we have been doing hasn't been working.

6)She's also worried that if we divorced I'd freakout and try to harm myself and she'd have the guilt for the rest of her life.

7) She also mentioned at one point that I would basically take anything I could get in a marriage. I tried to shoot that idea down short of "walking"

My response to most of this was to listen.I didn't try any validation BS.I tried to convey to her that if the worst happened, it would not be the end of the world of me. I don't want to split up. I tried to tell her I need more out of a relationship and it's a bad example for our kids. (6 & 2)

So that's it. It's been like this for 7 months. no real growth. creating some anger in me that spills.

You have (to me) always kept DB concepts at a distance, like you know better, that these things won't work.

example:

Quote:

I didn't try any validation BS

and to that:

example:

Quote:

So that's it. It's been like this for 7 months. no real growth. creating some anger in me that spills

Let me know when your ready to try DBing, or hell try Denver's approach to it, which is similar to Starsky's or mine...pick and choose what works for you, but don't accept it when it isn't working.

JTB.
Blunt? I'd expect nothing less from you (and I don't mean that in a bad way)

I was watching some kids show with my son and thought of you. One character started saying, "But..." The other character stopped him and said "Buts are for pooping."

To clarify when I was talking about the validation BS, I was referring the language of validation NOT the act. (I do think DB sometimes gets hung up on language too much) I saw that first hand with my son's illness. No one in my family just took the time to say to my wife. Hey, I know it must have been rough being far from your child and not knowing what was going on.

But more to the point. DB is a slippery concept. It doesn't always work and if it doesn't then people just shift how they wanted it to work. It's like losing weight. Some people say I want to loose 30-lbs. Say they only lose 15, but end up being healthier. They they shift their goals to "Hey, I'm healthier."
That may be true, but that wasn't your goal. it's rationalization pure and simple.

For those where DB does "work" they say see it worked. That's confirmation bias. You can't win and you can't lose with DB.

I have been read around on this recently and have come to the conclusion that DBs principles aren't earth shattering. There is a commonality across a number of different programs. There are some parts of DB I 10000% agree with, some parts I question, some parts I think are BS or downright dangerous. However, I have recently found something I think that will work with me.

I do like the community and do like the challenge, support, encourage, etc. And I do try to "play by the rules" here. I don't encourage people to do something that is clearly against the principles.

Your post really got me thinking...as always.

Originally Posted By: Harrier

But more to the point. DB is a slippery concept. It doesn't always work and if it doesn't then people just shift how they wanted it to work. It's like losing weight. Some people say I want to loose 30-lbs. Say they only lose 15, but end up being healthier. They they shift their goals to "Hey, I'm healthier."
That may be true, but that wasn't your goal. it's rationalization pure and simple.

For those where DB does "work" they say see it worked. That's confirmation bias. You can't win and you can't lose with DB.

Haven't I been saying this for almost 2 years now? LOL!

I actually agree with you for the most part Harrier. I simply decided that I wasn't going to accept this, "if you improve yourself, it doesn't matter what happens with your M" concept. I decided that I do agree with the improving and saving yourself, but that was the originally goal...

They HAVE to go hand in hand. The should be duel goals. 1) save your M, 2) improve yourself. Not necessarily in that order.

What qualifies as success eventually becomes up to the individual poster.
---

But I do agree with JTB Harrier. And this is something that I've thought about you for a very long time. I just don't recall you ever really applying DB tactics to your own sitch. In fact, you kind of just stopped talking about your own sitch.

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But none of this ^^ is really the point right now.

My question to you, about your sitch, is what can you do to get your W to put in the work that she needs to put in to turn this around?

It sounds to me that what you have been doing isn't working. A cheeseless tunnel. You need to do something different.

Originally Posted By: Denver_2010

but that was the originally goal...

Sheesh! I need an edit button. Seriously.

That ^^ should read, "But that was NOT the original goal..."

Since you're thinking. ; )

Communication is one of the corner stones to a relationship, and I misunderstood you on a realtively easy point.

Curious as to how many other people don't understand you.

More a point to think on, rather than a pointing finger. For me personally? I can always do better in that area myself.

Originally Posted By: Denver_2010

But I do agree with JTB Harrier. And this is something that I've thought about you for a very long time. I just don't recall you ever really applying DB tactics to your own sitch. In fact, you kind of just stopped talking about your own sitch.

I don't post every minute of my what's going on. and I don't post all the times I'm applying DB tactics (though I suspect to some the used of the word 'tactics' is a poor choice of words)

Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

Since you're thinking. ; )

Communication is one of the corner stones to a relationship, and I misunderstood you on a realtively easy point.

Curious as to how many other people don't understand you.

More a point to think on, rather than a pointing finger. For me personally? I can always do better in that area myself.

or some might say I was very precise in my communication.

Or some might say you can never be wrong. : )

Update...not really. But i'm struck by the odd dichotomy of my situation.

Obviously, I've been reading a ton on this subject. I look at how we interact at times, I look at what "successful" marriages look like, etc.

The good.
We rarely have mean hurtful fights.
Not to say we don't disagree, but it's never a grudge match
We have a lot of emotional intimacy (at least on her end) she is always talking to me about how she feels, what she fears, etc but this is usually work related. At times she will open up to me about the personal stuff.
I am getting better about being clear about what I want/need.
She still does a lot of little things for me...like taking my dry cleaning in, getting me a coffee, coming to cheer me on in a race.
She has been more active on FB "liking" or commenting on things I post.
We do get along great, laugh, have fun.
She talks about the future A LOT.
I'm trying to be very positive, upbeat, funny, etc.

However, the physical affection piece is near zero. I asked her in light of our recent convo on being stuck if she wanted to take a break from sex. She said she needed to think about it, I brought it up again, she needed to think about it some more. No other kissing, hugging, hand holding, cuddling, etc.

I think we need to have a talk with the gist of it. We've tried your way, not it's time to try something different. It's going to be a shock to her on what i think we should do.

Of course, my fear is that she only sees me like a brother/friend and has no sexual/physical attraction. Well, it's not so much as a fear, but it would be hurtful. Logically, I can deal with but really emotionally it's different.

You mentioned that she's a psychologist. Does she understand that men in general need physical affection to show worth? Does she know that's one of your basic needs? It's more a matter of her lack of effort.

Have you tried flirting with her and just having fun? Maybe you have to take a stronger initiative.

Hi Harrier,

So there you are with emotional intimacy from your W, but craving physical intimacy, while I am enjoying the physical part but no emotional intimacy from my H. Otherwise, our sitches are the same ....spouses home, having fun with the family, showing committment....

I guess women find it easier to show their love through words and affection, while men are physical beings. So when I find myself craving for affection, I just give it myself and not even bring up the topic. I know its probably going to be like pulling teeth, or worse, to get my H to say ILY to me, if ever.

I do think that you should not talk about it, just flirt, be sensual and sexual and one day she might just fall into your arms!

Regarding Retro. Have you talked to the leaders about making your weekend in a neighboring state (or where you have physical support for the kids), then your follow ups closer to home? We've gone (twice, in fact) and there are ways to get creative. Good luck!
Peace,
Goldey

Hi Harrier.

Just wanted to stop in and throw you some good luck.

Looks like you're still fighting the good fight and that's a noble thing.

Stay strong bud...

I supposed i don't really need to say this. But I'm done with this place...this time for good.

JTB said to me once. some people think they are too smart to think the program will work. My response is some people are smart enough to see the program for how it actually works.

Lastly, I will add we are 100% unstuck.

You know you were in a good place so I don't know why you suddenly are angry and hostile towards other people's stich's.
Consider yourself blessed and don't forget that those on here are still hurting much like how you were in the beginning.

I'm glad you're 100% unstuck and that your W has totally recommitted to you and satisfying all of your needs. And I'm glad that you are finally getting the hot and heavy sex life you really wanted are are getting it whenever you want now.

Good luck to you.

H - marriage and raising young kids can be tough in the best of circumstances. In your situation, well, I'd be fed up, angry, and resentful. (Not saying you are, but it'd be a normal reaction.). As you know, my situation is different. And I don't have any advice to offer. I've heard great things about the Retro retreats- is that the right phrase? - and wonder if your wife wouldn't cancel her conference trip to go. I mean, marriage vs. conference......if you asked maybe she'd surprise you. If not, at least you know what her priorities are. I say this as someone who also can not get his W to MC and probably has not tried hard enough. Good luck and I do hope you check in from time to time. The community here is a nice support network. After all they've put up with my whining for quite a while now.....

Originally Posted By: MrBond

And I'm glad that you are finally getting the hot and heavy sex life you really wanted are are getting it whenever you want now.

Good luck to you.

Wow. what a juvenile response from someone who claims to be "Mr. Cool." Considering I never said one thing about it.

But you know what is funny. The guy on here you all worship was in fact an OM. Actually, there are so many OMs here.

"Wow. what a juvenile response from someone who claims to be "Mr. Cool." Considering I never said one thing about it."

?
I don't get it. You said that "Lastly I will add, we are 100% unstuck".
You mentioned previously that things were going well except in the intimacy dept. so I assumed that your comment meant that you are getting the sex you wanted? Is that no longer true?

"But you know what is funny. The guy on here you all worship was in fact an OM. Actually, there are so many OMs here."

That is true, however they are all trying to save their marriages now which is the point of the website. Everyone has done something wrong in their M. Some say lying about the finances or going out with the guys every Friday night is worse than adultery. It's a matter of perspective. Whatever the case may be, everyone has faults. It's called being human. If you want to condemn someone, you've already thrown the first stone. The difference is that they are all trying to right a wrong which is a lot more admirable than those who continue to live in the wrong.

I don't recall if your W had an EA, but I do remember she was a therapist of some sort. I hope she was able to work through your anger issues and that your M is indeed thriving.

Oh and BTW, thanks for calling me "Mr. Cool." I never saw myself as that before.

I must have missed something because i didn't see where that came from. I must have missed a post or two?

I have seen some awesome advice from MrBond on different threads. We live, we learn. I thought that was uncalled for. Nobody's perfect.

Thanks SS. BTW, I don't think he was referring to me when he condemned the OP's on the board.